lore-discussion

[strange plinth]

mhm

[narrow pendant]

amar and the other peacekeepers on tau were made in the image of ancient earth animals, meaning 1999 era or even older

[drowsy saddle]

Yep

Why do you think Eleanor needed to visit the zoo?

[abstract wyvern]

This makes more sense than i am comfortable with

[drowsy saddle]

The cutscene of Eleanor taking control of the techrot was at the zoo

The legacytes were originally in the zoo

They have gorilla animations

[strange plinth]

the posture and body structure is similar to the gorillas on the boards

-# also "prelate" being used both for these apes and the zealoid prelate

[abstract wyvern]

Huh...

[drowsy saddle]

In this timeline harambe wasn't shot, he got harvested by the drifter

[abstract wyvern]

Wdym. He's prolly bare fist Gorrila boxing techrot

As one would expect of a simian of such stature

[narrow pendant]

albrecht looked at the gorilla and that gave him the inspiration he needed for the vessels

loid told me

[abstract wyvern]

Do you think we can rip one of those Vessels out of the lab, bring it to Tau and box the hell out of a Hunhulyst Before hugging it out Vegata Goku style for old times sake?

[misty helm]

I do wonder if those have any special abilities beyond the fact of just being huge

[gloomy prism]

So voruna is borderline feral it seems.

[strange plinth]

i mean. have you listened to her leverian

[abstract wyvern]

She has a bear trap for a face and i wouldn't have it any other way

[gloomy prism]

I have not

[humble sierra]

https://youtu.be/dXg_pmv_xVA?t=845&si=78DnlJWM8cZHS4U7

Eleanor's VA goes into a bit of detail on voicing the gorilla too

[misty helm]

If that's the very essential behaviour of a Tenno piloting Voruna... Imagine how it is when is Garuda

[abstract wyvern]

Thank you

[strange plinth]

-# Tuvul took some meager scrap of courage from this delay and reached for the bowl of Kuva, now boiling and steaming with weird energies.

-# Voruna struck him aside and seized the energized Kuva - not for herself, but for her wolves. Holding it high, she doused herself - and her slain packmates - with it.

-# Embraced by the seething crimson glow, connective tissues propagated. Sinew reached for bone, and within that marriage of occultism and science, she and her beloved wolves became one.

-# Her brethren lived again. In her. Voruna was now, and evermore, the heart of the pack.

-# Cheated of his continuity, Tuvul turned to flee. But his former warden was having none of it.

-# Those who came after found nothing but gnawed bones, some of them unusually long, twisted within shreds of white-gold raiments.

[strange plinth]

this would imply garuda has lore
she does not

[abstract wyvern]

A dance of blood and vicera. Confetti'd by entrails and brass shells

[humble sierra]

It's coming

[gloomy prism]

Also imagine being the scoldra. You've finally got one of the hex lacking, then suddenly what is tantamount to a sentient bear trap with 4 additional floating bear traps running on all fours literally ripping everyone in half.

[humble sierra]

Any day now

[strange plinth]

any day now since. uh. when was that devstream

[humble sierra]

All we know is 2026

[woven coyote]

Average day after drifter showed up

[humble sierra]

We still have several months to go

[strange plinth]

-# i'm aware that there is garuda lore coming i'm continuing the joke

[abstract wyvern]

I'm saying it now they're gonna reveal that she had some relation or that she IS Nitohk

[strange plinth]

i highly doubt she'd be Nitokh
maybe commissioned by her or made in honor of her, though

[abstract wyvern]

Related at least. My suspicions are very high

[gloomy prism]

Good lord was the Voruna prime trailer gorey. Unless I'm missing remembering, Ballas seems scared about letting this thing loose.

[abstract wyvern]

He seems to be a bit caught between admiration and fear of her

[woven coyote]

Comissioned sounds muuuuuch more likely

[abstract wyvern]

Though we all know how he ended out

[strange plinth]

"And I ponder, beast:
do you have MY scent?"

[abstract wyvern]

||I'd be too bricked up to ponder that if i see her on my trail||

Must have been the wind

Sorry

[gloomy prism]

Ballas: Imma be real, I cooked with this one... But maybe I cooked too well...

[abstract wyvern]

Hmmm smth bugs me a bit. I can't remember, why are we considering going back to Tau? Like for what reason?

[strange plinth]

primarily, seems like albrecht wants something there
and we're following him

lotus is also looking for a sentient that can heal, like adis
potentially has something to do with pazuul/erra, though that's entirely speculation

[abstract wyvern]

That makes sense. She prolly wants to bring Erra back.

Albrecht and his multi time line 5d chess, excel spreadsheet page number 4, cross-timespace bread crumb trail.

[strange plinth]

albrecht and his unexplained netracell calculations ending in "= 1999" in big text

[abstract wyvern]

Albrecht "I pulled this void shit out from my metaphysical ass" Entrati

And his dysfunctional family, feat "The Butler Did Him"

[fluid harness]

Do yall think the helminth and wally know eachother from a previous to known history encounter?

[strange plinth]

probably not
seems like wally was made (unintentionally) by albrecht, and the infestation's just. around
the infestation is afraid of the void, though, for whatever that's worth

Lizzie talks about the Smiling One, but that's the closest to an actual interaction they have

[abstract wyvern]

I swear we're gonna have a make out session with Wally when all of this is over

Judging by how we dealt with them in Whisper in The Walls

[cyan thistle]

Anyone know why this stuff shows up on my screens sometimes when leaving a mission or starting a durviri run?

[strange plinth]

it was a teaser for the second dream that never got disabled or removed

the translation, if you're interested

[cyan thistle]

Ok thank you

[covert pebble]

…Random thought, but before I speak, we are sure the racist owl called Adis a void lugger, right?

[strange plinth]

pretty sure, yeah

[covert pebble]

Ok, what if that was a backhanded comment because Adis was “with” us?

the “void devil”

[strange plinth]

Daklo: "Disgusting, isn't it? Orokin gold - wasted! I wonder... which of you would this aberration attack first?"
Adis: "Stupid."
Daklo: "Watch your mouth, void-lugger."
i'm not sure how related it is to our presence or if its just because he's a sentient
the sentients would have "lugged the void" over to Tau via building the solar rail

[covert pebble]

Cause Adis is lugging around a Tenno

Basically. Dalko, like all Orokin (or maybe just Ballas, idk) don’t like the Tenno for what they are. Basically, he’s calling Adis a Tenno lover

[strange plinth]

meh. ballas hates the tenno because they took away margulis's attention from him
i don't think we get any other info on what other orokin think of them
tuvul prolly doesn't like them due to their association with the zariman, but that's about it

[covert pebble]

Eh, true

[wooden cave]

this is why we hate ballas in this household

-# among many other reasons but that's just one

[strange plinth]

daklo's also willing to 'confide' in us later about why he doesn't trust the sentients, so i don't think its against us specifically

[covert pebble]

Kinda almost wish he comes back again just so we can beat his ass again

[wooden cave]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

[covert pebble]

That’s right! I almost forgot about it

[wooden cave]

ballas returns for a one-time event where we're allowed to just go ham on him

when DE
when will this happen

[covert pebble]

I want an event where we can just ragdoll his ass

[strange plinth]

go spar with kullervo to upset the warden, basically the same thing

[loud oriole]

-# “Ballas you ever wanted to see the back of your head from the front without a mirror?”

[covert pebble]

proceeds to step on his back for leverage to snap it backwards

[strange turtle]

We’re going to get Naga Drums footage for Temple Prime trust 🙏

[brittle siren]

How Voruna gets a Prime with 4 wolves attached to her?

[strange plinth]

either primed after the collapse or the helminth thought it was a cool idea and gave it to other vorunas

[brittle siren]

Prob the latter

Or Lavos priming her for fun

[prime cove]

So from what I'm getting from this, it was never the Tenno being spied on like I suspected, they're just experiencing a brief latency issue while connecting to their Warframe.

In the immortal words of Dark Helmet, "Even in the future, nothing works!"

[strange plinth]

ballas's narration def implies he did it

[brittle siren]

Though how would Ballas able to go near her to primed her though

[restive river]

He doesn’t need to get near her, he made her
He can just grab another serum

The primes aren’t always the originals

Not sure if it was talked about here but it sounded like he primed her so she could maybe hunt more of the Executors, which if he saw Tuvul’s death then yeah that makes sense

[brittle siren]

True but then he need to somehow make some kubrows fuse with her, which I think kinda difficult since they only do that due to bonding

Also are Voruna wolves kubrow?

[restive river]

They do that via Kuva

[humble sierra]

Daklo glazes us too much for it to have been directed towards us

[restive river]

Presumably

[brittle siren]

Oh that interesting

[strange plinth]

not fully known. they're only referred to as 'wolves' but they don't exactly match any kubrows we know of

[brittle siren]

So wait is Voruna Prime a Tenno-less warframe? Since he could have created her in secret

[restive river]

Voruna’s pack was grafted onto her via Kuva
If the wolves are grown same as the frame, think Venari, then Ballas could whip some up
Cut their heads off
Slap em on Voruna Prime and dunk her in Kuva
The key thing is probably the connection, which if the wolves are infested at all then yeah they have a connection

[restive river]

Maybe initially but I could see him gifting her to Voruna’s Tenno since
The Tuvul thing

[brittle siren]

“I saw you kill Tuvul so now I give you a gold Voruna”

[restive river]

Ye
“Dang good job killing that guy I hate. Wanna do it again?”

[brittle siren]

That OP has got to be so confused

Also now I realized that all the Prime trailer is literally us using the Prime in the current time

[restive river]

“We’re done with 1999”
Voruna Prime:

I like to think Drifter was just going to save their girlfriend

[humble sierra]

I went to bed after the trailer and dreamt that Voruna Prime was coming with her Protoframe

[forest lagoon]

God I need to get around to finishing my voruna proto thing

[brittle siren]

Btw now my head keeps thinking the Drfiter use Voruna when sleeping with Lettie

[restive river]

LMAO DAMN

[pulsar pendant]

so Victor's dead now huh

[misty helm]

1999 is a loop

[glossy dew]

Not really, remember that 1999 is a loop

[pulsar pendant]

he falls into that category too?

[misty helm]

The entire year of 1999

[glossy dew]

All of Höllvania basically

[pulsar pendant]

what if like Rusalka, Kaya escaped it?

[misty helm]

Yeah, apparently Kaya escaped it

And Neci... well

[restive river]

Kaya escaped it but came back
Neci was taken by Wally

[strange plinth]

Kaya's still brought back, either by herself or the loop

[misty helm]

There's not much of Neci anymore

[restive river]

Viktor won’t even remember that death, he’s not infested

[pulsar pendant]

but she's in Duviri no?

[restive river]

Hollowed out by Wally

[misty helm]

"She" tho

[restive river]

Just remnants remain of her

[misty helm]

Exactly; more like Wally

[pulsar pendant]

ohhh that's why she's like weird

[strange plinth]

Wally got kicked out, including the body he was inhabiting

[restive river]

You should talk to Eleanor, she goes over it

[pulsar pendant]

will do, cool how u remember that

[restive river]

My mind is a bottomless pit full of Warframe lore

[pulsar pendant]

a wild question, if u would jump into Murmur void, would u end up in Duviri?
it's one Void after all

[strange plinth]

maybe

[hybrid silo]

I might be dumb here but i still don't understand how hollvania's time looping work. And why does it need to time loop. Didn't we stop the bomb in new year eve? Is the loop something that happened naturally in hollvania or is it something the drifter have in control?

[pulsar pendant]

from Deimos to Duviri, or Zariman

[strange plinth]

xaku's pieces never hit duviri (that we know of) but kullervo and albrecht did
and teshin

[pulsar pendant]

so it's just kinda random

[strange plinth]

albrecht started the loop
drifter & the hex maintain the loop and keep the "correct" ending in effect

[pulsar pendant]

also if Revenant and Caliban are sentient (somewhat) how do they survive in the Void?

[restive river]

Albrecht made the loop, Wally took control, then we took control and Albrecht lengthened it
The loop continues to exist so we can retain the changes we make to the timeline, basically we constantly have to rewrite the past

The only individuals who remember the loop are Drifter and anything infested, including the Protoframes if Drifter doesn’t reset them for whatever reason

[strange plinth]

"You still need to keep the loop going, though, don't you? Because it's not enough to put things right, is it. We need to keep them right.
Soldiers against the tide. Now and forever."

[pulsar pendant]

fate worse than death

[ocean geyser]

It’s not all the same void, actually

[hybrid silo]

Alright so let say wally was defeated. Can drifter stop the time loop?

[pulsar pendant]

but it's one Void no? are there more?

[strange plinth]

there are sections of hte void, but its all still in the void

[ocean geyser]

Yeah that’s what i mean

It has its own domains

[strange plinth]

great indifference, granum void, duviri, i feel like i'm forgetting another

[ocean geyser]

Just sitting around in one isn’t going to magically spit you out in another

[misty helm]

It's also weird, because it all seems to be a paradox; for us to end up in the loop, everything that happened during 1999, 2000 and so on and so forth until whatever year we were that exact moment when we initially entered the time-travel way back to 1999 in the future... It all happened already

[restive river]

The normal void
Deep void maybe

[ocean geyser]

You can consider the raw void that the Orokin towers float in to be one

[restive river]

No paradox here
With how Warframe’s time travel works there’s no bootstrap, those events didn’t actually happen yet because we had yet to actually rewrite them

[ocean geyser]

The loop and the base timeline continue along independently

[misty helm]

So it's us travelling back to 1999 and doing whatever we're about to do... it all eventually led to the creation of the warframes, the Orokin; everything. A butterfly effect

[restive river]

What happens in the loop effects the timeline

[strange plinth]

its. like a loop-de-loop, sorta

[restive river]

The Orokin empire happens no matter what, what we do in 1999 doesn’t change anything

[ocean geyser]

Yes but the loop doesn’t prevent the timeline from progressing

[covert pebble]

Now I’m thinking of this one clip I seen Ted show, but with Lettie and Voruna Prime, with Lettie waiting in bed while Voruna walks in with a strap asking if she gots it on right

[misty helm]

I don't think* nothing we do in 1999 changes anything, and at the same time, it changes everything

[restive river]

True yes, it’s just how we change things
In whatever small degree we can

[restive river]

It doesn’t change anything
Between 1999 and the Origin System era is at minimum 18 radiation wars and the Orokin Empire.

[strange plinth]

the orokin, infestation, warframes, etc. happened without our intervention in 1999, and they continue to have happened after it

[restive river]

All we stop is one reactor from going off, that doesn’t alter our entire history.

The infestation still spreads
The Orokin Empire still happens
1999 is not a paradox.

[gray trench]

The way I've heard it explained, Harrow protected the timeline from the Zariman - Chains of Harrow, so that part of the timeline is off limits to Wally, but nowhere else is for sure protected

[restive river]

Warframe’s time travel doesn’t really operate with paradoxes, the only exception being The Duviri Paradox

[misty helm]

Whatever we are about to do and whatever it's about to do, already happened from an eternalistic point of view; otherwise presentism would have still been the holding time-theory. So, in a way, what we're doing and what we're about to do... it all led to the future from which we come from

[strange plinth]

this doesn't take into account the palimpsest, however

i'm finding the exact wording because i cannot remember it

[restive river]

There isn’t a paradox here, it didn’t already happen

[misty helm]

How do you know

[restive river]

1999 is kinda like the Lua Spy vaults where you time travel

[strange plinth]

2. What is the core thesis of The Palimpsest of Spacetime?

A. Events can be rewritten; traces of the original persist (correct)
B. Everything that exists could, at any point, be erased

events cannot be rewritten if they already happened that way, it would just be a bootstrap

[restive river]

With the Lua Spy Vaults you go back in time and rewrite the events a bit, allowing you access in the future
Now normally this would be a paradox, but there is no paradox as we still had to go back and rewrite history

The only time paradox that exists in Warframe presently is the Duviri Paradox
(Maybe there’s something in Deadlock Protocol but idr and it’s not relevant anyway)

[ocean geyser]

One way to imagine 1999’s loop is by making the main timeline a
Line
And sticking a circle onto it

[restive river]

Loop de loop :]

[ocean geyser]

It still sort of applies

[restive river]

I haven’t played it in a bit so I don’t recall where it falls exactly

[ocean geyser]

Because Nef’s still talking about the specters when we get back
But suddenly they disappear

[misty helm]

But if they can be rewritten and thus defining the future of said timeline, then hypothetically speaking, said future still holds the fact true that someone will eventually travel back in time to rewritte the past so they can travel back in time in the future, to rewrite the past and so on and so forth....? 😵‍💫

[restive river]

We don’t go back to rewrite things because we rewrote things
There is no paradox here

This isn’t traditional time travel where paradoxes occur easily, DE have specifically accounted for this with the Palimpsest of Spacetime

[misty helm]

The only anchor here, is the fact that at some point in said timeline, something was done to change a detail of the past of said timeline, or a point in such, but the future still should hold the "destinied" part in which you travel back in time to achieve said anchor in the first place

Otherwise it never happened

[restive river]

The rewriting of 1999 did not happen relative to the Origin System until AFTER Drifter went to 1999

[restive river]

Reread the Palimpsest

Events can be rewritten, traces of the original persist

[misty helm]

Then it wasn't fully rewritten

[restive river]

Think of the timeline as a magic book, if you go back to a previous page and change something small that will cause some alterations but it ultimately doesn’t effect the original page you were on

[ocean geyser]

Mfw “traces of the original persist”

[restive river]

It never said fully rewritten lol

[misty helm]

So, I take it there's a fixed amount of timelines in WF universe
-Not infinite*

[restive river]

The events between 1999 and the Origin System era are so far apart that most changes don’t matter

[restive river]

We don’t know but we know there are branches
Just that this is not how a branch happens

[ocean geyser]

I think your issue is that you’re trying to apply traditional time travel rules when it’s been made clear that Warframe doesn’t follow them

[restive river]

If the timeline branched then the Coda wouldn’t be able to track us down, presumably

[restive river]

This is most people’s issues tbh

[misty helm]

But if you write a timeline, but traces of the 'old' one persist... did you created another one, by the theory of eternalism (both things existing) or does eternalism only applies to individuals and not necessarily events?

[restive river]

If I have a book and rewrite something in an earlier part of the book do I have a new book and the original book?
No, I have the same book but with a part rewritten

[misty helm]

Good analogy, I guess
Only that the book is... time? and events?

[strange plinth]

mhm

[ashen pulsar]

yeah. because of the 18 radiation wars, very little of what we did matters in the future. but we get to keep traces of it.

[restive river]

Like evil cloned boy band members who hate us!

[ashen pulsar]

technocyte coda/heartcells/coda weapons being an example of that, yes

[restive river]

Oh and Temple

[ashen pulsar]

temple’s an odd one

[restive river]

Temple at the Night of the Naga Drums is the best thing we got from rewriting things tbh

[restive river]

Not that odd
They waited same as the Coda, just in a cooler and David Bowie-esque way

[ashen pulsar]

The concept of temple existing means that flare must’ve become temple even in the loops or after the loops before we interacted with them

if flare knew that temple was a frame that existed

[restive river]

Flare got the serum same as the others

Likely in 1998

[ashen pulsar]

yes
but flare somehow always managed to survive up to the night of the naga drums, even before we interacted with them

[restive river]

Temple as a frame existed in the Orokin Era, Ballas just shelved them out of fear
Albrecht got the design somehow, made the serum, went back to 1998 and boom
Temple Protoframe

[restive river]

No?
We have to get the good ending to help them to do that

[ashen pulsar]

we wouldn’t have known of temple if it was just the bp ballas shelved

[restive river]

They only show up if we helped them

[ocean geyser]

Orokin era temple probably didn’t have the same design Ballas made

[ashen pulsar]

but temple already exists

[strange plinth]

we don't know of temple until we help flare, though?

[ashen pulsar]

flare knows of temple

[ocean geyser]

Maybe he never even finished the design
Could be the strain he used was already rebellious

[ashen pulsar]

meaning someone from the future told them, likely us

[ocean geyser]

You get access to stage defence the instant you hit rank 4

[restive river]

Flare is infested and has Lizzie
Flare will always turn into Temple fully, but with our help they get to the Night of the Naga Drums

[ocean geyser]

So you can farm the entire set without talking to temple and lizzie at all

[ashen pulsar]

temple will always be a warframe that exists in the future is what I’m saying
even without us, flare always makes it to the orokin era

[restive river]

Ballas makes the design
Albrecht takes it
Goes to 199?
Infects Flare
Flare will always now become Temple
The Infestation’s mind is present throughout all times it physically exists
Ergo Temple will always exist in some capacity

[misty helm]

I'm really going hollow with this thing... I cannot wrap my mind around it without my brain defaulting to a casuality 💀

[restive river]

Literally no they do not 😭
We have to help them so they take the comet ride so they can SURVIVE and then show up for the Naga Drums

Temple on Earth does not survive to the Orokin Era.

[restive river]

Timeline is so big and those events are so damaging that most things we change are meaningless

The infestation however survives and thus we get Coda in present day

[ashen pulsar]

if flare knows of temple in the future, someone told them of temple in the future, likely us.
we know of temple in the future because temple in the future exists.
it’s a paradox and that’s why it’s weird.

flare made the decision to follow in the steps of THEMSELVES

[restive river]

Or Lizzie told them!
Cause it’s the infestation, which has a weird relationship with time
There’s no paradox here!

[ashen pulsar]

OK, then lizzie told them of temple in the future!

which gives us the same result

[restive river]

We don’t know about Temple in the future cause they don’t exist in the future UNTIL we help them
Which even then
That’s not even how we get Temple

[restive river]

It doesn’t though because Temple does not make it to the Orokin Era without the Drifter’s help

18 radiation wars

They aren’t surviving 18 radiation wars

[ashen pulsar]

Something's been nagging at me for a while. It started as a little thing, but it just wouldn't go away. How come the Temple Warframe has my name? How come they have a guitar called Lizzie, too?

Temple was my stage persona. The me I wanted to be. And Lizzie is unique. I couldn't figure it out.

Until you brought me and Lizzie together in harmony, and I finally understood.

This change that's been happening in me? It can't be stopped. I'm going to transform completely one day.

And that's okay. Because the Warframe from your time - 'Temple' - it's me. One and the same. The Warframe that Ballas was too scared to build, because rebellion was built into its DNA.

You see, Drifter, I go where I'm needed. I stick it to the man in Ludston, Cemaria, Höllvania... and I know I need to do it in Pluto Terminus, too, many many years from now.

[restive river]

How do you survive that?
By not being on the planet

[ashen pulsar]

how does flare know this

[restive river]

They’re talking about the Tenple Ballas designed
It’s also possible that with our help and us rewriting the timeline they are getting memories of the Naga Drums, which is when they show up

[restive river]

They’re infested and have Lizzie

Outside of Temple showing up for the Naga Drums there is no other Temple in the Orokin Era other than the design Ballas shelved, not that we’re aware of anyway!

[ashen pulsar]

they’re mentioning the name temple (which would’ve been because of them)
they mention pluto terminus and what temple did on the night of the naga drums
they mention lizzie, who is “unique” and ONLY THERE BECAUSE OF THEM

HOW DO THEY KNOW

because whoever told them knows about their future

[misty helm]

Correct me if I'm wrong but... does all of this mean, then, that when we "rewrite" stuff in the timeline we're only kinda "shifting" whatever is the 'real' timeline we actually experience, into an eternalistic possibility of a timeline in which that even could take place? Like, we're only alining stuff with the void shenanigans or whatever?

[strange plinth]

and as of sending this email, they've already figured out that they'll be on pluto terminus
which means they could "already" be there and gotten the memories from Lizzie
we see with the triad that the helminth can share information backwards

[restive river]

We literally know the infestation’s relationship with time is weird lol
Lyon has visions of Rell because he’s a Harrow!
Same thing here
Flare influences the Temple strain, likely by accepting Lizzie

[ashen pulsar]

yes

[restive river]

We aren’t swapping timelines at all, it’s the same timeline but with edits

[ashen pulsar]

the temple in the future exists

[restive river]

Not without Drifter’s help

[strange plinth]

the temple in the future exists as of the email
and the temple in the future does not exist if you do not get the email

just as kaya can get to the future with your help, but doesn't stay there if you reset

[ashen pulsar]

how would the temple in the future exist

the loop isn’t over

[restive river]

Omg we reset her knowledge about time travel
Since
We’re resetting the protos themselves and not the loop

[ashen pulsar]

how does flare know of a future temple

[restive river]

The timeline continues outside of the loop

[strange plinth]

htat's what we've been saying the whole time. time both progresses and keeps looping'

[ashen pulsar]

yeah but our decisions in the loop don’t affect anything until it resets, right

[restive river]

Because they will become that future Temple, they’re infested, time isn’t linear to the infestation
Not like how it is to us

[restive river]

As soon as new years happens our rewrites go through

[strange plinth]

the actions don't wait until the loop is over to take effect, that's just when they're "permanent" until they're rewritten again
the end of the loop is where our active influence ends

[ashen pulsar]

yeah

The part I’m having trouble wrapping my head around is the fact that flare knows about temple.

[restive river]

They’re infested

[ashen pulsar]

OK, but if they haven’t made the decision yet, it doesn’t matter

[restive river]

But they only know about the other temple if they did make the decision, if we help them

[ashen pulsar]

there will never be a temple to help make that decision if they don’t make that decision

[restive river]

Which it’s not even the other temple
It’s them
In the future

[ashen pulsar]

they need that temple to help them make the decision

[restive river]

Future temple has no weight on the decision other than the fact they exist because we help Flare

[ashen pulsar]

The decision is to follow in future temple’s footsteps

how did they make that decision if the decision creates those footsteps?

[restive river]

They’re infested and through that/Lizzie they are aware of where they’re headed basically, because they made that decision because we helped them

[ashen pulsar]

do you understand what I’m going for here

[misty helm]

Yeah, yeah, but what I mean is, if the "changes" are eternalistic by default. Like, if the traces persist from a relativistic perspective of the void and thus should be potentially accessed (unless somehow erased, I guess)... and by an eternalistic definition, all the possibilities are constant... When we're in the loop, we're kinda in dev-mode with the details that form a timeline and actively rearranging the way said timeline will turn out once out of the dev-mode-loop... we're only realigning the already existing-eternalistic possibilities into "official" ones?

[restive river]

Because we help them

[ashen pulsar]

The infestation wouldn’t know about things that don’t happen

[restive river]

They know if a thing did happen though, which it is because they’re doing it

[ashen pulsar]

the first time

the decision is “should I follow in temple’s footsteps?”
the answer is “yes”

[restive river]

We are rewriting events in the past, this does not cause a split in the timeline it is still the same timeline

[ashen pulsar]

but before they say yes
how do they know of said footsteps?

[restive river]

Idk what you even mean
Flare only makes the decision because they accept Lizzie and themselves, because we help them
Future temple isn’t the deciding factor, accepting what they will become is.

[misty helm]

Yeah, no doubt about that part; what I was trying to make sense of, is how the changes are "defined" in the first place, under the stuff of eternalism and that other thing... the palimpsest whatever

[restive river]

The palimpsest of spacetime
They are defined as rewritten events

[ashen pulsar]

it’s not the deciding factor
It’s the decision

The deciding factor seems to be us helping them

[restive river]

The deciding factor is them accepting what they will become
Which is Temple
They only accept that because of Drifter

[ashen pulsar]

yes

[restive river]

They’re always going to turn, it’s where they end up that’s important

[oak imp]

how did the vespar relay get destroyed is there some part of the lore i missed

[strange plinth]

blown up by vay hek's fomorians a while ago in an actual event

it's never been brought up properly since, the destroyed relays have just stayed inexplicably destroyed
the last of kozai's letters mention the fomorians, though, so we know its still canon

[restive river]

The system’s been busy tbf

[ashen pulsar]

my point is, if the decision is to become temple and follow in the future temple’s footsteps

how do they know of the future temple before deciding?

[restive river]

It’s not to follow in their footsteps
It’s just to become Temple and then help us

[ashen pulsar]

okay

The rest still applies

[restive river]

They’re infested
The infested works with time weird
Flare will always become Temple
Ergo if they listen, they’d know that

We help them accept it so they won’t get blown up and will survive to, at the minimum, help the tenno.

[ashen pulsar]

they know of temple > they decide to become temple > temple becomes a thing in the orokin empire > they learn of temple

[strange plinth]

i'm also not seeing a 'following in their footsteps' from "and I know I need to do it in Pluto Terminus, too, many many years from now."
to me, it seems like they know the location and that an insurrection took place, not that Temple was there
they have temple's blueprints, if we're to take that bit literally, so they'd also know about 'future temple' from that

[restive river]

They don’t decide to become Temple and Temple only becomes a thing til the Orokin Era if we help them

[ashen pulsar]

The presence of lizzie and the name temple tells us that future temple is them

[restive river]

Operator, in theory only knows about Temple if Drifter helped Flare

[ashen pulsar]

temple only exists because drifter helped flare

or I should say, temple only exists in the future

[restive river]

They only exist in the future if Drifter helps Flare.

Flare always becomes Temple
Always
But they don’t survive 18 radiation wars.

[oak imp]

oh alr

[ashen pulsar]

but if that’s true, how did flare know of temple

[restive river]

Ballas didn’t make Temple from pieces of Flare

[restive river]

You have to be ragebaiting by this point 😭

[ashen pulsar]

ballas didn’t make the “temple” that flare knows of

[pulsar pendant]

i came back after like what? 20 minutes? ya'll are still chatting about 1999

[restive river]

If Flare knows about Temple through the infestation and Flare always turns into Temple then they know about Temple.

Temple only makes it to the Night of the Naga Drums if Drifter helps Flare, otherwise Temple gets nuked with the other Protos.

[ashen pulsar]

so you’re saying the infestation is giving them the information about the temple they become before the 18 wars

[restive river]

Yes

[ashen pulsar]

then why do they say “the Warframe from your time - 'Temple' - it's me”

[restive river]

The Infestation can be mentally present at any time where the infestation exists

[smoky gulch]

So, during first run of the Hex quest, Wally takes away Drifter and Albrecht with "Truth Chaos Truth". What the hell was that about?

[restive river]

Because in that message they’re talking about the Temple that went to the Night of the Naga Drums
Who is Flare!

[ashen pulsar]

yes

[restive river]

We don’t know exactly

[smoky gulch]

Kay, so Wally is just being goofy

[restive river]

Ye he just speakin voidtongue

[smoky gulch]

Truthnuke teleporting

[ashen pulsar]

how do they know about that temple specifically

[restive river]

It maybe means something

[restive river]

I’m not explaining this again I’m sorry

[ashen pulsar]

you say flare knows about temple because lizzie informs them what the temple they will become THAT DIES IN THE RADIATION WARS is
but they make the decision to become the “the Warframe from your time - 'Temple'”. if there’s a warframe from our time named temple, that means that temple did survive the radiation wars and they know of that temple

[restive river]

I have explained this
It’s just the infestation and Drifter helping them.

You’re overcomplicating this

[ashen pulsar]

I just don’t understand how the infestation and drifter could help them with info about temple if temple only exists after they makes the decision

[strange plinth]

the decision isn't made at the email, its made before it- when you're locked into the good ending

because those don't happen at the same time, that allows time for Flare to ponder why there's a future Temple with their name

[ashen pulsar]

but doesn’t that mean temple survives regardless?

if them deciding to become temple creates the future temple during the time of the orokin, where they then make another decision

then temple would’ve survived anyways

[pseudo edge]

im significantly less broke than earlier today ❤️‍🩹

[strange plinth]

there's the decision to accept their transformation that directly leads to them being on the comet and showing up for the insurrection, there's not two decisions

maybe i'm overcomplicating this, now.
its a throughline. help > acceptance > future temple

[ashen pulsar]

the acceptance isn’t becoming temple right
it’s accepting lizzie

[strange plinth]

its both, sorta

Until you brought me and Lizzie together in harmony, and I finally understood.

This change that's been happening in me? It can't be stopped. I'm going to transform completely one day.

[ashen pulsar]

oh okay

[peak ether]

Is old peace replay-able yet?

[ashen pulsar]

think so

[misty helm]

Ironically, the same bs shenanigans that brought us to the 1999 loop, should appliy to that too; he's going to transform one day and not at the same time

and we can always void-bs him out of that block too

[strange plinth]

them
though i'm not sure what you mean

[misty helm]

Afaik we could apply the same logic of the 1999 loop, to everything if we suddenly could create loops ourselves; everything could be rewritten/rearranged. Nothing would matter*, potentially, because we could always realign a better outcome.

Just like resetting the KIM convos to get the better ending

[strange plinth]

potentially, but its a big "if" for us to create loops whenever
duviri's loop was caused by thrax/the throne, and 1999's was started by albrecht
drifter can take control of an existing loop but we've not seen them make one

[humble sierra]

Became so with Vauban heirloom update

[restive river]

Sorry I wasn’t helpful

[ashen pulsar]

tbf im still confused

grey cleared it up a lot tho

[drifting lintel]

Drifter was being hunted by void angels when they made duviri

[ashen pulsar]

ok

[drifting lintel]

Oh I've just been throwing interesting details about the void into this chat when I come across them.

[restive river]

Source :?

[drifting lintel]

Drifter. While talking to Elinor

[restive river]

That’s not a source

That literally does not narrow it down lol

[drifting lintel]

In the Kim conversations...

[restive river]

That still doesn’t narrow it down

Do you know which one?

[humble sierra]

Drifter: The Angels were coming, breaking through the walls, and I had nowhere to run. I had the book, then I just remember thinking ‘This is where I can be safe.’ (EleanorRank4Convo5

[restive river]

Thank you

[humble sierra]

Just doing my job citizen

[drifting lintel]

In the same conversation drifter mentions how the stories were meant to help kids rule over their emotions so void travel would be safe.

[humble sierra]

That was known lore, I'm not sure what the source was or if it was just a matter of the community figuring it out though

[restive river]

I wanna say the source was in Duviri somewhere
Ik we have the adult version of the “keep your emotions in check” lessons

Archarbor

[humble sierra]

frankly with the release of Voruna Prime trailer, Lettie should call us Wolf instead of Marie

WHoops I was trying to zoom in

[stiff beacon]

so anyone check out the new version of the awakening quest cause theres some cool shit in it

[humble sierra]

OH RIGHT

[stiff beacon]

like for instance

broken statues of the 7

with ballas being one that was least damaged

[restive river]

I need to check it out still

[stiff beacon]

also a new banger of a song

[restive river]

To hint at him being a major villain for the first big arc

[stiff beacon]

most likely

[restive river]

I need to see if they did anything particular with the others

Particularly, Nitokh’s

[stiff beacon]

well karreshh's statue is mostly there too

[restive river]

And he got ate

[stiff beacon]

tuvuul's is pretty destroyed

[restive river]

So the other statues likely don’t mean much other than “wowie look”

[restive river]

Voruna’s Operator did that for sure

[stiff beacon]

gonna take another look

at the opening area

[fast dew]

Mm, what about Avantus?

[stiff beacon]

also pretty destroyed

[misty helm]

Avantus was killed by a grineer driving a saw through her spine, IIRC

[fast dew]

Oh i know

[misty helm]

Unless she had a countermeasure for that... 👀

[restive river]

They’re talking about the statues in the awakening lol

[fast dew]

Mhm

[restive river]

Avantus is dead
Karrish is dead
Tuvul is dead
Ballas is dead
Nitokh is ???
Tormis is ???
Scarne is ??? (Theorized to be Alad by some)

[fast dew]

Avantus is one of those characters that. Lowkey aint memorable, in regards to the executors

[stiff beacon]

yea

[humble sierra]

Does anyone have that screenshot of the Statues with the names aligned?

[stiff beacon]

like the new additions like tormis and scarne pretty forgettable

[restive river]

She was racist and got her spine exposed for it
And has a. Knife? Pick? Dagger? Brush? Thing??

[fast dew]

Lowkey a club

[restive river]

We barely have anything on them tbf lol

[misty helm]

It's a shame, she looked quite... interesting

[restive river]

I like to think that’s a brush but it probably isn’t lol

Headcanon that she’s behind the Orokin’s sense of style

[stiff beacon]

ngl its probably a fan

[misty helm]

That sounds cool tbh

[fast dew]

Mm, the other art she has makes me not think this

The fan, I mean

[misty helm]

Like, she does look a more aesthetic-leaned than the others, beyond of Ballas ofc

[restive river]

It’s stupidly unclear what that thing is LOL

DE just knows it’s important to her design, somehow

[restive river]

You see the vision for the hc lol

[fast dew]

It looks like wood, with like. Gold maybe melted kver it

[misty helm]

Tbf it looks like a fan

[fast dew]

Weirdly, she shares a shoulder pauldron with ballas

[strange plinth]

this looks more like the uhh
machete theory?
but w/ the statue, it seems more round

[fast dew]

I do not see how something that has gold nearly encasing its entire body and front could be a fan

[restive river]

I don’t think we even knew who this was until we got her statue lol

[stiff beacon]

btw which one of them has an old man beard

[fast dew]

We didnt, she was just labelled female orokin, or. Orokin woman

[fast dew]

Scarne

[restive river]

So all the years we were staring at an Executor and didn’t even know it
Love it lol

[stiff beacon]

right so

on the left we have scarne, karreshh, and ballass

on the right avantus, tuvuul, nitohk, and tormis

[restive river]

Tormis is the buff one

[stiff beacon]

yep

[restive river]

Tuvul is the bald slender one

[stiff beacon]

he has hair

[restive river]

Scarne looking like a greek philosopher is awesome

Evil philosophy

[humble sierra]

Who's the Vladmir Harkonen looking guy

[restive river]

Karrish

[stiff beacon]

kareshh

[misty helm]

Tormis be like Johnny Bravo Prime

[peak ether]

I wonder if Ballas was looking at him during a meeting and thought Yk what imma make a warframe like you

[humble sierra]

MY INTERNET DIED NOOOOO

I ALMOST HAD THE WHOLE HEX READY

I hope it saved

Phew, it saved everything besides the one I just started

[radiant pier]

are trailers canon

does that mean Viktor's actually dead now

[stiff beacon]

not permantly

[humble sierra]

Time loop

[stiff beacon]

cause time loop yes

[radiant pier]

oh right I almost forgot about the constant time loop

would that mean I have to romance them each time?

or does that stuff carry over

[chrome hound]

You can choose to reset it or not

[cunning ore]

That made me also confuse if i have to talk with the Hex again

Does some new contents be mention in the Hex? Like i heard someone said about the Hex commenting about the Triad

[radiant pier]

oh yay

[strange plinth]

they only have their near copy-paste consent chats afaik

[humble sierra]

They can update the chats to reflect new content, but it's extra work to make whole new chats

[cunning ore]

So does that mean i have to reset to see if the Hex talked sth about those new content?

[humble sierra]

Nope

Unless you don't have the "All conversations" setting on

If you want every chat, you'll want the second one ticked

I don't mind resetting which is why I have it off, it keeps things fresh for me

[fast dew]

It reportedly lowers the chance for bugs with the triad

[restive river]

Imagine the “turn off monthly kiss” does not turn off the kalymos scene

[strange plinth]

i'll be finding out soon lol

[humble sierra]

It's done

[fast dew]

the amir one is so cute

[humble sierra]

Definitely the one I'm proudest of

[eager briar]

So what I understood from the prime trailer ballas went “damn all of the Tenno rebelled, might as well make one last frame for the road” and made voruna

[cunning ore]

[crimson abyss]

the moon is awfully close to earth

one day its gonna crash into earth and warframe will end fr

[humble sierra]

• ⁠Amir - Arc Trap (because Volt)
• ⁠Aoi - Thermian RPG (because of the Truck Chase scene)
• ⁠Eleanor - Lohk Surge (she has a lot of connection with the Void)
• ⁠Arthur - Launchpad (a reference to Excalibur having Superjump)
• ⁠Lettie - Life Support Capsule (Trinity and healing)
• ⁠Quincy - Universal Ammo (because of Cyte-09's second ability)

[fast dew]

Makes sense yeah

[drowsy saddle]

Lettie... Lettie please, my kubrow is kinda homeless

[humble sierra]

I wonder if there's symbolism in the way the 7 are ordered in Awakening

[tall echo]

el doesn't really have any more void connection than the others

[humble sierra]

I mean she entered the Void and met MITW and an alternate universe version of herself, heard "Mara Lohk" before the update even came out,

Lyon is probably the only Protoframe so far that's more connected to the Void than she is at the moment

[tall echo]

she didn't enter the void

only sent her mind through it

[humble sierra]

Right

[tall echo]

ik I'm nitpicking

[fast dew]

Probably

[narrow pendant]

arthur after tasting velimirs techrot bbq:

[fast dew]

Do we think they fed Kalymos the scraps

[narrow pendant]

if not her, drifter's got the helminth.... or lizzy forced flare..

[tacit bloom]

Crazy that Ballas somehow turned out to be the more human one out of the seven being in love with margulis and with that in mind ( and hear me out on this one ) I get why I acted the way he did with umbra

[tacit bloom]

Living forever with memory of watching the one you love die

[narrow pendant]

well its understandable why hes mad, but hes unhinged with how far he goes

[tacit bloom]

Question is just how much more unhinged are the rest

We already got a taste of tuvuls antics in the zaramin

And as for the rest well( I can't remember they're names😅 )

Wait when we saw him in the old peace he said remember this

[narrow pendant]

karishh (the fat one) was able to flee from the naga drum assasinations and was in a town on europa where he kept the people starving to eat everything himself

until grendel and gauss came

[tacit bloom]

Kay so he's greed

[narrow pendant]

gluttony fits more since hes all about eating

[tacit bloom]

My goats

[narrow pendant]

grendel ate him and casted nourish on the people, feeding them

[tacit bloom]

True true

[narrow pendant]

Avantus only had a small lore entry of how she had grineer defend her from getting to her extraction ship, but she also ordered them to stay there effectively getting them all killed when she could just let them on the ship with her. She promised them honor and titles, but what are those worth when the empire was effectively already gone with most orokin already dead. The grineer somehow broke free from the kuva control and instead killed her and excaped themselves

[fast dew]

Avantus was, as far as we know, mildly racist

[fast dew]

Mm. Sloth, I think

[tacit bloom]

A thought crossed my mind the void or the indifference has a lot of personality for something called the indifference

[fast dew]

Yeah thats the funny part

[narrow pendant]

cant remember which of the 2 guys was scarne and tormis, i believe tormis was the guy who looks like hercules and we just know from his appearance that hes just really physically gifted. Scarne looks like ur average ancient greek philosopher, old and a long beard, and he was known to be a pacifist

[craggy creek]

Is this.. normal? he didn't appear for quite sometime now

[tacit bloom]

Oh yeah that's they're favorite chair

[narrow pendant]

yeah wally can appear ever since finishing war within

[tacit bloom]

They'll spawn on it occasionally

[fast dew]

Wally is only indifferent in regards to what happens to other people. Indifferent as in he has no care for it and feels nothing for it, which is different from what Albrecht does, which is pragmatism, feeling those feelings but not allowing them to sway you

[craggy creek]

yup but that's the first time it ever appeared in 1999

[fast dew]

Yeah we know nothing about Tormis

[fast dew]

Thats the only way he will

[main arch]

@craggy creek @tacit bloom I just put that thing in the trash down stairs facing the corner.

Leave him to think about what he's done.

[tacit bloom]

It's the chair

[fast dew]

Its the chair Albrecht got. Interrogated in, which is also the chair wally uses to jumpscare us

[narrow pendant]

sin: looksmaxxing (im sorry)

[main arch]

Obligatory WHAT THE F%#@ IS AN OPERATOOOOOOOORRRR Insert Lavos Prime firing dual Cedo Primes

[narrow pendant]

lavos prime https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-chemistry-experiment-scientific-walter-white-gif-17820266

[main arch]

Thank you. Have a nice day.

[fast dew]

He could be pride or wrath

Depends on where you put ballas

[main arch]

He can't be given many touchups or else he breaks the Warframe scale lmao

[fast dew]

Did you know, the meth on the set was made out of sugar glass

[main arch]

The blue candy is actual candy LMAO

[fast dew]

Mhm, and. I believe it was Jesse's actor that used to eat it while on set

[narrow pendant]

yeah and aaron paul kept eating it secretly lmao

me when i reply too late

[fast dew]

[tall echo]

only grendel

[fast dew]

No because I used to do prop making for my old school's cinematography elective class (i didnt take it, the theater class just got tasked with making it) , it was one of the things that we learned

[main arch]

I really hope if Lavos ever gets a protoframe, the protoframe's snakes (one of them) actually starts talking to us, it'd be a good way to introduce Javi to us.

[fast dew]

Ehh

Unless the snake is literally Javi that got helminthed, unlikely

[main arch]

That's unlikely to happen lmao

[tall echo]

we'd need original lavos for it to be javi

[narrow pendant]

gauss was on the mission too, keeping guards at bay to let grendel feast

[main arch]

Yeah. Unlikely to happen.

[tall echo]

not mentioned in the leverian

[narrow pendant]

has to be

[fast dew]

They are intended to be set together

Even their primes ballas seemed to have made together

[main arch]

Unless they decide to truly make him built different and actually include him in a future quest. Like the ORIGINAL himself, still alive after literal centuries if not more.

[tall echo]

gauss and grendel are "never far from each other" but it's never directly stated that gauss was there during the whole nomming

hm

[narrow pendant]

well not directly there but involved he was

[tall echo]

I am starting to get seriously pissed at my crappy memory

[main arch]

LMAO

Same. I'm there too.

[narrow pendant]

on the topic of crystals

[tall echo]

imma go find an ice pick

[fast dew]

I just avoid saying things as definite when its about known lore

[main arch]

Which is, again, unlikely to happen.

His backstory is surprisingly extremely vague compared to other frames.

[fast dew]

If we do get a lavos proto, i would find it delightful for it to be Albrecht

Mm, if Albrecht was to survive the arc, where do yall think he could go?

[tall echo]

nah, not entirely fitting

[fast dew]

Mm, we got Kaya and Nova, i dont think it needs to be 100% fitting

[tall echo]

how's that unfitting?

[narrow pendant]

it would have fitted more if a protea proto had the whole timetravel theme

[fast dew]

Her whole thing is time travel, and yet. She got physical teleportation

[tall echo]

ah screw it I'm too incompetent to talk lore without my meds

[fast dew]

Albrecht, a known alchemist being a proto of the alchemist warframe isnt too far of a jump

[narrow pendant]

yknow how kratos kept helios alive head as a lamp

imagine gara proto keeping nihils oubliette on her lmao

[fast dew]

See i know this as more of a thing from. lollipop chainsaw 😭 zombified bf on the hip

What i think we're gonna do with wally ngl

[tall echo]

did he really do that twice

[narrow pendant]

yeah, in the free dlc of the newest game, where he is in valhalla i believe? helios actually returns but it turns out his head was a deception and it was the old guys head all along, and he only found out after putting it in a cage thats about to be flamed from all sides lmao

he survives though

[tall echo]

oh that doesn't count

[main arch]

You can kinda make a guess as to when the back stories of the other frames happened given we have more context of what their surroundings are.

Lavos? Just the prison on Venus. But even that doesn't give us much, cause using the terraforming of Venus by the orokin doesn't give a good enough idea of when it happened. Could've been right then and there, or long after it.

[main arch]

O NO HE GAE-

[main arch]

Because she can use the fabric of space to travel through time.

Remember those two are a part of the same fabric.

If you can affect space, which Nova/Kaya definitely can, you can affect time.

[strange turtle]

a mimir

[narrow pendant]

right that was his name

[smoky gulch]

Have a good mimir

[loud oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/mimir-buenas-noches-gif-23462028

[cunning ore]

I think Drifter tried to flirt Viktor in the new trailer

[narrow pendant]

victors rotting head sumdali when

[fast dew]

He is incredibly pretty

Good to know he does actually fight on ground

[radiant pier]

Viktor lost all his aura

I thought he'd be more buff looking and less

shirtless

[twin wigeon]

how is viktor not cold btw

he's like basically naked and i think it was winter

[radiant pier]

cuz he's got green junky drugs in his system

[twin wigeon]

mmmm he shouldn't

Neci had all the green shi on her bc she's infected with techrot

[radiant pier]

she's hot

[fast dew]

He wasnt very buff even in his concept

[radiant pier]

genuinely I was expecting NECI to be the Saryn Proto

[fast dew]

Funny that her mother is

[radiant pier]

what

[radiant pier]

still, atleast yk....not shirtless would've been cool?

[fast dew]

He was pretty. Not that muscular

[radiant pier]

I thought he'd be in a more....tactical fit

[fast dew]

Follows Neci's pattern

It was also intended for him to have far more tattoos, which is probably why he is shirtless

[radiant pier]

he has no aura

[smoky gulch]

What's the story behind Wukong Prime "In Memoriam" on Strata Relay?

[fast dew]

... have you met Minerva?

[radiant pier]

I only hit rank 4 with the hex recently so uh, haven't spoken

[radiant pier]

I wish he kept the tattoos, without em he looks....

like....what we call a "jejemon"

[fast dew]

A creature 😭

Im glad hes in his jacket this time

[radiant pier]

it's like a junky

[fast dew]

Yeah have you seen him in the hex? Bro

I am GLAD hes jacket'd bro

[strange turtle]

They all have the green stuff to prevent infection

[twin wigeon]

oh right

[narrow pendant]

either a dev or yt who passed away memorial

[ashen pulsar]

it's a memorial to a tenno who passed away. for the sake of their privacy and that of those around them, DE has allowed them to remain anonymous iirc

[narrow pendant]

or someone other than what i listed, would be a very DE thing to do tbf

[twin wigeon]

theres another memorial on Iron Wake and the entirety of Ollie's Race minigame is tribute to another tenno iirc

[smoky gulch]

Huh, that's interesting - so basically we're always passing by those who are no longer with us, but might even not register that?

[pale cedar]

Nah, I think it was the dev who died not a player

[smoky gulch]

Kinda like candles on crossroads where lethal accidents happened - you see them, but don't even think about them

[twin wigeon]

well yeah, we even fight some of them (the murmur are thought to be made up of dead universes, so trillions of dead people and planets)

[loud oriole]

dont forget the Zephyr skin in honour of Mynki

[smoky gulch]

Mmmm, but I'd say there's a difference between in-universe lore and in-fandom lore regarding these ^^

[twin wigeon]

well if you noticed them, then they've served their purpose

[narrow pendant]

ollie is designed and voiced by a make a wish patron

[ashen pulsar]

we don't know.

[narrow pendant]

hes still alive and was at the last tennocon on stage

[twin wigeon]

mhm he isn't dead yet

[ashen pulsar]

either way they're a "tenno" in my eyes

[twin wigeon]

mhm mhm

[smoky gulch]

Yeah, the memory of person is preserved by the act of recognition

[ashen pulsar]

the memorial on iron wake is to the creator of clem, datareaper.

[twin wigeon]

😄

[ashen pulsar]

clem's there too, in a little pillow fort.

[twin wigeon]

oh yeah Clem has a "pet"

a tiny moa!!!

[fast dew]

Yeah, popcorn

[silk sparrow]

can't lie, nightcap's icon kind of looks like the head of a cyberman

[fast dew]

The moa that got crushed in jackals fight iirc

[twin wigeon]

wait..... is it bc its a breacher moa? the ones that explode?

[fast dew]

Testing moa iirc, it was what the lotus thought was either jackal or zanuka, i cant remember 💔

[twin wigeon]

maybe but its the same model that Veko detonates several times in TNW

[unique talon]

In terms of lore, who's considered the most violent frame?

[fast dew]

I mean

Violence can be really subjective

[narrow pendant]

brutal maybe garuda

[unique talon]

Something like Voruna in her trailer

[narrow pendant]

blood altar is just torture

[fast dew]

I do not think that trailer is bad

[twin wigeon]

yeah plus they all revert back from their injuries and trauma after the loop resets so like

[fast dew]

Like. Maybe its a side effect of doom but that wasnt that bad

Oh no... a spine

[twin wigeon]

Oh no... blood

[narrow pendant]

victors spine trophy decoration

[fast dew]

Yeah so bad, not like if you use slash and get lucky, you get an accurate cross section of a person

[radiant pier]

We've all watched predator before

[fast dew]

I. Dont think I have

[twin wigeon]

even though we gamble using "literal blood"

i've never watched predator

[fast dew]

I get the reference I think duck is tryna make tho

[twin wigeon]

i don't get mid references, sorry!

[unique talon]

Yes I did

[fast dew]

Also! I feel like you'd enjoy the new heirloom skin were gonna get

[narrow pendant]

the hunter pov of marking the enemies red is the predator thing

[radiant pier]

wait really? you should go watch it

[fast dew]

Posting liger's art bcs i love their art

[unique talon]

Why horns?

[fast dew]

Cow

[radiant pier]

I'm not gonna call it the greatest or anything, but I think it's a nice....look(?) into the time it was released, it specifically comments on the bloodshed of th-WOAHHHHH MOMMA

HELLO MESA

YOOO IS THAT A BLINDFOLD

[fast dew]

She reminds me of. What are they called

[unique talon]

The cowgirl design is really good

[fast dew]

Texan long horns?

[twin wigeon]

bull?

[fast dew]

Im not a cattle person, im more of a. Sheep guy

[fast dew]

Gender doesnt equate to horns in cattle 😭

Its a specific breed that has those long horns

[twin wigeon]

was not thinking that deep thomas

[lean garden]

liger why is just her ass out

[unique talon]

I know this has nothing to do with lore but I think they should expand violence in game, just like in Voruna's trailer

[fast dew]

Its liger, im surprised Loid doesnt have tighter clothes

[unique talon]

It's 🔞 anyway so..

[fast dew]

Its not, actually

[loud oriole]

because heirloom, you either get guns out or buns out

[lean garden]

tbvf, it wasnt liger that took lyons pants off

[fast dew]

Here in Australia, its only MA15+

[fast dew]

It was!

Im surprised its only the boob window

[lean garden]

it wasnt! liger originally had pants on lyon

de told him to take'em off

[fast dew]

Mm, but the devs asked for it off, right?

[pale cedar]

If DE told him to take them off
Liger took them off

[fast dew]

Liger also put him in a dress

[pale cedar]

Liger makes some crazy stuff

[fast dew]

Liger is also responsible for at least 1 set of nipple piercings

I can kinda see Mesa's heirloom having them too but yk

Depends on how it looks ingame

[radiant pier]

when does this heirloom release

[fast dew]

Around Tennocon

[radiant pier]

when's that-

[narrow pendant]

summer

[fast dew]

Mmm, July? June?

[fast dew]

Erm its winter here

[ocean geyser]

Do you want the sun back

[pale cedar]

I feel the new Mesa skin is gonna cause a lot of players to hornypost again

[ocean geyser]

Heirlooms moment

[peak ether]

Arguably worse than ember heirloom and she was bad enough

[narrow pendant]

same ppl who hate on follie probably

[ocean geyser]

Me when the Heirlooms continue the themes they already had

[peak ether]

Did valk get the same treatment? I don’t really remember it

[ocean geyser]

Yeah
It’s just not deliberately thrown in your face cause of her skirt thingy

[fast dew]

Mhm

My issue is that they never do masc frames the same

[ocean geyser]

REAL

maybe Sevagoth heirloom….

[fast dew]

Like. Love me a good arm but LET ME SEE MEN WITH NICE ASSES OH MY GOD

[ocean geyser]

🤝

[peak ether]

Ember I insta bought for the same reason most did, I am ashamed to admit it but for valk it was more “damn that’s a really cool skin”

[loud oriole]

qorvex heirloom, he just got two boulders back there

[ocean geyser]

LMAO

[fast dew]

No it gotta be the codpiece

[fast dew]

I did it for fashion 💔

[fast dew]

I am a normal person, I say as I just sent this

[ocean geyser]

I wonder which parts of Qorvex they would even make all glowy

This guy’s literally just concrete everywhere

[loud oriole]

codpiece

[fast dew]

They'd probably remove the concrete

[ocean geyser]

Damn :(

[fast dew]

Albrecht watching as his creation gets its main purpose destroyed for. Goonergame

I want a limbo heirloom soo bad

[ocean geyser]

Insert Albrecht explosion gif

[fast dew]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/952946035733438575/1461285583681753251/explode-1768467993232.gif

[ocean geyser]

You seem particularly normal about libo

[fast dew]

He was my first prime, im particularly attached

[peak ether]

The first prime will always be special

[loud oriole]

shame i missed the chance to get the heirloom for my first prime

[peak ether]

Same

[fast dew]

Mm, mag or frost

[mint wren]

Probably Mag

[loud oriole]

Frost, back when twitch drops were crazy

[twin wigeon]

libo

[fast dew]

They do free wfs and primes occasionally

My valkyr prime came from tennocon last year lol

[mint wren]

They have given a lot of the older prime frames out for free over time

[fast dew]

My Oberon came from that stream for his rework

[peak ether]

Year before was Saryn as well

[loud oriole]

thankfully the prime vanguard rotation for RAya got me mostly complete on current primes

[mint wren]

Frost Prime, Oberon Prime, Ember Prime, Trinity Prime, Ash Prime, Valkyr Prime, Saryn Prime. Not to mention Oberon, Styanax, and probably some I missed from both

[ocean geyser]

Libo :D

[mint wren]

Loki Prime was also free

[fast dew]

Oh i hope we get Mesa prime then, for her heirloom skin

[loud oriole]

-# think im missing; chroma, titania, gauss n grendel, hildryn, mag?, prob a few others (excluding Excal Prime, my two seperate umbras make up for it though)

[twin wigeon]

how do you hav 2 umbras?

[fast dew]

I have. 11 primes iirc

[ocean geyser]

Diff accounts prolly

[fast dew]

I got two limbos once

[twin wigeon]

i have almost all frames

[ocean geyser]

woah?

[loud oriole]

had umbra on xbox, moved to playstation and got umbra again, then merged those two accounts into a cross-save PC account

[twin wigeon]

oh

ill never like umbruh

[fast dew]

From helping my mate play limbo theorem

[ocean geyser]

Wait it’s not a solo quest?

[pale cedar]

Most early quests aren’t

They made that a thing later except Vox Solaris

[cunning ore]

MEsa heirloom too good and im broken curently

[runic bronze]

should i ask follie lore questions here or in spoilers

[cunning ore]

You can

[drowsy saddle]

Still time to grind plat.... Fairly sure she's coming out around tennocon

[cunning ore]

yea im doing it rn, you have any suggestion to earn more plat?

[cunning ore]

Here, you get the answer

[runic bronze]

ok so

[drowsy saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/job-job-application-jobless-gif-2757097081210871087

[runic bronze]

the scary loudspeaker lady in Follie's hunt is Follie herself right

[drowsy saddle]

Fairly sure

[cunning ore]

Of course i got that, all my salary had been invested in Comissions, lol

[lean garden]

Not too clear about that

voice line is labeled Archimedean

[drowsy saddle]

Wouldn't be surprising if follie was an archimedian

[runic bronze]

worst case scenario this is her shadowgraphy directly projecting her past life's traumas onto the relay as it's entirely in her canvas

[fast dew]

This is fair

Seriously though, good grind can be prime sets

[drowsy saddle]

Need to get back to relic cracking

I've run out of forma blueprints

[fast dew]

Ive seen prime warframe sets sell for a lot of plat and its whuh

[drowsy saddle]

Stock up on faction standing and steel essence, when voruna drops dump all of it into relic packs

[fast dew]

Mhm

[cunning ore]

It just there no goods of Ballas so i have to ask for Comissions of many things

[fast dew]

Yeah i feel you, most loid content made either ive done it, or people i know made it

[peak ether]

This is the way

Too lazy to ever farm relics manually

[cunning ore]

Thomas is the best big bro

😭

[fast dew]

I am, I am pretty cool

[drowsy saddle]

Actually, what's the market price for the ESO weapons? Have they crashed already?

[peak ether]

Yeah braton is sitting at 90 as of yesterday

[fast dew]

I deadass just made an Albrecht pngtuber bcs i was bored and starved for content 💔

[drowsy saddle]

90 is still not bad, better than prime sets lmao

Could flip my set and my mesa

Do i still have spare hildryn/gauss sets?

[fast dew]

I have a lot of vaulted relics actually

I could probably sell those

[drowsy saddle]

I have like.... Nearly 200 gauss related relics

[cunning ore]

Sevagoth relics and Protea relics become forgotten

[fast dew]

I have. Far too many sevagoth relics

Ive sold 2 extra sets because of it 😭

[drowsy saddle]

Still nothing compared to the dude with had 100 hildryn sets

[peak ether]

You seen the dude with 100 Vauban prime sets?

[pale cedar]

I know of someone with 300 Volt sets

[drowsy saddle]

Bloody hell

[cunning ore]

Alas

[peak ether]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/jOQxwkELZI

[smoky gulch]

Yeah, I suspect Follie lore is "she was abused as part of therapy, so now she lashes out in grim ways while acting child-like"

With the voice over during mission being her trauma riling up

[runic bronze]

i do feel like some lines can equally be about us and equally about her

so it's really interesting

i wonder if they will open up about her past

[smoky gulch]

Here's to operation

It should clear things up

[tepid hollow]

would you guys say it was Voruna Prime that was on Lua, guarding the temple

[tall echo]

no

voruna prime was made after the collapse

[misty helm]

I have yet to keep playing the mode, but is it ever explained why the relay that was destroyed by Vay Hek, now suddenly has a warframe doing weird evil stuff in it?

[tall echo]

not really

[restive river]

I don’t think she’s acting child-like, she just has whimsy lol

[restive river]

Follie and Zorba’s mentor were on the relay at the time

[pale cedar]

This Follie update has barely any lore

As to be expected

[smoky gulch]

I mean, there's this disconnect between her being dressed up mature and her being acting goofy/innocent/child-like

[tall echo]

zorbenblorben... the illiterate arbiter...

[tall echo]

...like a clown?

[smoky gulch]

Yeah, it kinda doesn't register clowny to me, somehow

Probably what they were going for, but something feels away from clownish vibe for me?

[restive river]

She’s dressed as a clown and has whimsy
Whimsy =/= childlike

[tepid hollow]

oh okay I see where I got it wrong, I was still on the idea that Primes were the original Warframes, not that some were and some Ballas primed later

[restive river]

Let’s not infantilize someone for being whimsical :p

[tall echo]

follie is partially based on the sad clown type

[restive river]

She’s a sad art clown

[smoky gulch]

I will have to watch my gf use her more - coz it registers to me, as you said, less whimsical and more childish

But that's very subjective stuff, how we perceive an idea and its execution

[restive river]

And I’ve been playing her, she’s just got whimsy

[tall echo]

hey, that's what people called me back in school

[restive river]

Seriously, can we not infantilize someone for being silly??

[smoky gulch]

Which is why I'm telling you: I see the difference, but am not exactly sold on the execution

[restive river]

And as someone who has actually been playing her and looking at her animations and her she’s just silly

[tall echo]

so relatable

[misty helm]

Yeah, I used to think that too for a long time. Makes sense, though; the most basic strains were still extremely useful (super soldiers) but just like something like an early F-16 block or a M1A2 early production model, being upgraded to the current modern-variants with various upgrades along time; the Primes were just that. Hence the term "Excalibur [At] Prime"

[restive river]

An example of a childlike frame would be Nokko, by comparison
Literally they were a child and do act more childlike due to that

Follie is not a child, she’s not acting childlike she’s a clown, she’s silly, she’s whimsical

[tall echo]

she's also kinda creepy in the mission

[pale cedar]

I wanna know where people got the Primes were the original idea from because I can’t find anywhere in game actually saying that

[restive river]

Iirc it originated from the devs, either from a forum post or stream
But it’s clearly not canon anymore

The story changed and evolved and it just makes for a better story that some were earned

[pale cedar]

Warframe players seeing old lore and getting shocked when new lore disproves it

[woven coyote]

Fairly sure it is just people assuming prime means first
Just like they extrapolate prototype from protoframes

[misty helm]

In my case, it followed the notion that the Orokin basically gilded everything they had with gold and the fact the warframes were their most powerful weapon at that time... thus making sense they would also have gilded those in their asthetic-style; like "yes, it's a weapon, but it has to be glorious like us". While also assuming the ones we had initially (the non-primes) were cheap-attempts at recreating Orokin technology. But because, we lacked the Orokin expertise, we ended up with variants clearly not looking as gilded and aesthetic as the Orokin-era made models.

That was my train of thought, at least.

[restive river]

I can see that too but I swear I saw something that used to say it

[woven coyote]

There wasnt afaik

Closest was just the excal prime blurb about excal in general

[pale cedar]

Closest I can find
A Prime Warframe, weapon, Sentinel or accessory represents technology as it was during the height of the Orokin Era. A Prime Warframe will often have additional Polarity Slots compared to the non-Prime version, and Prime weapons will boast superior performance or other advantages against their counterparts. Due to its rarity, Prime technology is coveted throughout the Origin System.”

People definitely read this and just assumed

[loud oriole]

to me primes are either;
-lets start off this production with a strong frame, nevermind its too strong
-this frame is too weak lets prime it
-wait it primed itself?

but i know those are prob very wrong

[pale cedar]

Only one case of Primed itself

We don’t have a proper answer on what Primed Revenant

It’s just

Started Prime

Earned it

Lavos being the exception

[loud oriole]

revvie just built different, literally

[woven coyote]

Rev was just a weird adjacent situation yeah

[peak ether]

The only one that fits the narrative where the proto came first is Flare to Temple

[fast dew]

I will say that she is childish, but not. Infantile

[restive river]

Whimsy
Silly
Not childish.

There is a difference

[fast dew]

No, no she is childish

[woven coyote]

Not exactly "the proto came first" so much as flare being the only one

[fast dew]

They can be both, i feel

[restive river]

I disagree but aight

[woven coyote]

And even then the design is what is first

[fast dew]

Mm, gotta pull out my clown notes hold on

Benefits of having. A clown for a teacher 💔

[restive river]

Yareli has childish aspects but is mostly whimsy
Nokko is childlike whimsy cause he. Is a child

Follie is a clown.

[peak ether]

Just a thought, Temple Prime would be a weird one considering it only acted after hiding on a meteor after thousands of years

[loud oriole]

and limbo is a magician

[fast dew]

There is a distinct aspect of being a clown that appeals to children, and that can be done as. Acting childish, acting like the target audience

[peak ether]

Wouldn’t that still make proto came first seeing as they’re the only Temple initially?

[fast dew]

Yeah, that being the only example

[woven coyote]

The difference i am trying to highlight is there being something after

Like there aren't other temples afterward from what we know
Like it isnt a "first of many" situation since there is only the one

And much like what flare and albrecht say the end result is still a warframe, they are only delayed

[peak ether]

Ahh okay I understand where you’re coming from. Leads to what I said about Temple Prime, wonder how they’re going to explain that one

[woven coyote]

Could be as easy as ballas just going "so i have this design i dont wanna make, but what if i just added some gold bits, would i wanna make it then?"

[pale cedar]

Temple was cloned

Gold was added

[peak ether]

Doesn’t seem likely Ballas would make a new one during an uprising by the Tenno or at least it doesn’t make sense to me. “Warframes are Turning on us” “I know let’s make more warframes”

Acc ascaris prime exists

[woven coyote]

Like all they need for a prime is the design, they dont need to actually make a frame to then physically glue golden bits

And hell the original temple ballas designed could easily be the prime one which then albrecht modifies

It really isnt that complicated

[fast dew]

Mm, i wonder if. Flare being so devotedly. Flare could permanently change the warframe strain into something stronger perhaps? Idk its late it might not make sense

[misty helm]

As far as we know Temple may have been just Temple Prime eventually. Like, IIRC, wasn't the strain created by Ballas but wasn't really used because they were weary of the "rebellious" nature of the strain?

[fast dew]

Ballas never used it, correct

Funny to see Temple blasting through the night of the naga drums and ballas not knowing who tf they are

[misty helm]

What's funny of all of that part of the lore, is that DE making Flare's Temple (potentially) be the literally* very own same seen during the Naga Drums event, is bordering causality*

[drifting lintel]

I like to imagine ballas knows exactly what temple is but it confused out of his mind because he knows he didn't actually use it.

[woven coyote]

Considering revenant and lavos, he might just go "not again"

[strange turtle]

Ballas watching from his Lua bunker https://youtu.be/ltXzAWItTxI

[tall echo]

what

you english seems to have just peaced out towards the end there

[misty helm]

Yeah, sorry about that. I just corrected it.

Not my first language 😅

[tall echo]

same

[fast dew]

This is me at least 5 times a day

[restive river]

I like the idea their prime will emerge from the comet for the Naga Drums :]

Like Lizzie slowly primed them with the materials in the comet or something

[daring flare]

dunno if this is the right place to ask, but can relays still be destroyed? iirc every once in a while we have to do smth formorian related. idk if it's the same thing, but I was just curious.

[woven coyote]

They cant ever since the og event

[daring flare]

I see, then what's the thing that happens every once in a while for? Idk if I'm misremembering it, but we have to craft formorian disruptor and destroy smth no?

[woven coyote]

Mostly because the community had the bright idea of trying to leave only one relay so that baro only had one place to visit

[dawn hill]

Where did follie come from and why does she attack us? Why is it all hosted in vesper

[woven coyote]

It just pretends there will be consequences

[pale cedar]

It’s one that got blown up out of event due to Baro and Wally

[daring flare]

oh I see, I see ty

[pale cedar]

We have almost no Follie lore if any

[drowsy saddle]

Iirc the Arbiter who was in contact with follie and had her paintings was on vesper when it was destroyed

[stiff beacon]

best i can gather from the in mission dialogue follie/their operator was forced to paint by some old woman for some purpose

• whatever more context can be gained from the 5 letters

[narrow pendant]

follie was a therapist that got forced by the orokin to cure the tenno from their trauma. She used art as a medium for them to share their feelings. She failed to cure them in a manner satisfying enough to the seven, and her punishment was becoming a warframe

at least thats what the youtuber socratetris gathered

def one of the most thorough and ideologically observing loretubers out there, his vid on 1999 is incredibly thorough

[tall echo]

don't state speculation as fact

and generally don't trust loretubers, although that is one of the logical conclusions

[zenith ore]

Didn't she just came out a week ago? How could you gather this much lore while there are not a lot of info

[tall echo]

4 days ago, actually

[zenith ore]

Even worse

[narrow pendant]

from the audio during the gameplay

[strange plinth]

the letters from Kozai + the mission narration?

[tall echo]

and it's just. very condensed lore

"not a lot of info" doesn't mean "absolutely zero info"

[narrow pendant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfIsmI58lEc

[restive river]

Oh boy

[restive river]

He’s good at analysis, not so much theory

Also what Scrap said, don’t state speculation as fact

[zenith ore]

Plip plop

[twin wigeon]

honk

[narrow pendant]

me watching DsEIEGE's old peace reveal theory video and him saying it might be a fake past even though rebb stated its real

[twin wigeon]

surely not MY DSEIGE?

[pale cedar]

Dseige also tries to call every single character Wally

[twin wigeon]

ok nevermind im unadopting them

[strange plinth]

-# dsiege when a character smiles

[narrow pendant]

youtubers are great for analysis but when it comes to any grander theorizing its so over

[woven coyote]

Perhaps one of the worst loretubers ever

[twin wigeon]

but his voice is sooo comfyyyyy

[pale cedar]

From the top of my head he’s called these characters Wally

Cy
Red Veil Lady who’s name I can’t spell
Parvos
Fake Ballas in Duviri

[twin wigeon]

My Queen? Palladino????

[pale cedar]

Yeah

[twin wigeon]

also

CY????????

[strange plinth]

the only one that has any merit there is parvos n he's still very much his own guy

[pale cedar]

That’s just the ones I can remember

[narrow pendant]

how so

[twin wigeon]

MY GOAT IN SOL???

[narrow pendant]

i appreciate his real world comparisons

[woven coyote]

From what i have heard his focus is on linking stuff to real life theories and myths instead of caring at all about what is said in game

Like he misses the lore in it's entirety

[twin wigeon]

lol

[pale cedar]

Is Socra the 9hour vid guy?

[strange plinth]

don't think so, but idr the name of that one either

[woven coyote]

Honestly hard to even call him loretuber with how little he seems to care about lore

[twin wigeon]

larper

[narrow pendant]

mm right he does kinda advertize his videos wrong

but if he were to do it correctly the content itself is good

[woven coyote]

Theories are fun when properly labelled