lore-discussion

[smoky gulch]

Huh, it's listed in object rather than fragment

Thank you DE, very mobile

[restive river]

It is an object

[fast dew]

Oh what the shit lmao

I mean yeah but you'd think that the fragment aspect would make it to. The fragments

[smoky gulch]

Yeah, that's where I was searching for it first - only on wiki I found where it is

In patch history, nonetheless??

Oro...kitties?

They do have cat ears, that's for sure

[fast dew]

This is funny actually, Albrecht has an unscannable one in the netracells iirc

[crimson abyss]

even then, alpha centauri would still be the closest to the sun

but idk how far in the future warframe takes place

[fast dew]

Mm, enough for the stars to be in the completely wrong places

[crimson abyss]

proxima centauri specifically is moving closer to the sun

[ocean geyser]

Maybe Praghasa ate it

[crimson abyss]

True

maybe it just got swallowed by a black hole

[fast dew]

Perhaps its not the same in warframe's world

[crimson abyss]

probably

[smoky gulch]

Where can I watch star charts in game to see that?

[fast dew]

You won't be able to, its a line from Eleanor. She looks through our mind and sees that the stars are in the wrong place

[smoky gulch]

Ohhh, so waiting until I do the hex

[crimson abyss]

modern day human civilization would be liek sumer to warframe's universe

[ocean geyser]

Lmao

Take a look at the name of this channel first lmao

[hexed flame]

shi mb gng I thought this was builds discussion

[ocean geyser]

Nah it’s good lol

Wouldn’t be the first time actually

[pale cedar]

He's really trying to be a ragebaiter

[smoky gulch]

Hmmm, I still have little clue what the hell made Lotus go from "I betrayed my people to feel like mother and spent millennia enjoying it" to "pls call me Margulis, mr lovass" in apostasy prologue onwards

Where can I find more context in game?

[ocean geyser]

Ballas

You have no idea how much scheming this blue forehead did

He’s responsible for her behaviour

[strange turtle]

It’s because it’s the closest star of the same kind as ours

(Singular and G-class)

And is also just pretty close in general, relatively

So since it has a sun like ours, could potentially have habitable planets and is now known to have multiple planets (increasing the chances), it’s got the role of “closest habitable system” slapped on

[pale cedar]

So many people forget Ballas is behind Naga Drums

[twin wigeon]

erm actually

Octavia was behind the Naga Drums

[fast dew]

Or maybe he's just an idiot....

[pale cedar]

An idiot playing as a smart person

[fast dew]

Most bigots tend to be like that yeah

[radiant pier]

Ballas is totally dead right?

[pale cedar]

Yes

Literally got drained to death via a kiss

He can now only show up in flashbacks and other things like that

[humble sierra]

Yeah having him come back to life would take a lot away from the New War

And just the writing in general

[glass parcel]

Not sure if it's because of tau, playing the game so long i wouldn't remember what it is, or something else..
What is this goldish marker over lua??

Its gold in game not on the phone camera mode attempting to de-bloom the detail

Oh lmao.
Haven't done node conquest in so long didn't recognise the mastery-planet thing.

Or not... since normal mode has the blue ones too..

[twin wigeon]

the Gold Laurel signifies Mastery over a planet in both normal and steel path

you've simply completed all the nodes on lua in steel path

[pale cedar]

Honestly looked so ugly when it was just green

SP completed one looks so much better

[glass parcel]

So every planet has been added to normal mode since probably, that was a sp screen photo

[glass parcel]

My partner in crime mentor helped b-line to sp mot.. all I cared abt recently at that point lel
but since then they had their caravan in the backyard of grandparents place we live at burn down from escooter combustion, no devices or personal affects at all now.

They were mr 28 but even they didnt have it.

[twin wigeon]

oh...

i finished my sp chart like by mr 26 im mr 28 now

[glass parcel]

They didnt play for three years until recently.. it wasnt a focus for them back then idk

[lean garden]

Im MR28 and too lazy to complete sp star chart lol

Im sure completing it will get me to 29 if Im counting the mr right

[pale cedar]

I'd recommend once the DE hacking issue is resolved doing the thingie ones that give 5

[glass parcel]

Oh right

[lean garden]

the what?

[glass parcel]

I should be doing star chart. Since mr 16 after 10 years xd..

Had to recently claim my account as an adult not being restricted to brief fortnightly visits to the console

[pale cedar]

The thing that's in the alert tab area when you activate SP

[fast dew]

Im so glad I don't need to worry about this as an adult

[pale cedar]

Can't remember what they're called because I haven't done SP in ages

[fast dew]

I say as I play warframe maybe once a week

[glass parcel]

Pre-adulthood i meant all that experience was stagnated in, foster care.

[fast dew]

... oh. I also experienced this 😭

I am. Still kinda experience this just. In a better way I suppose

Residential care

Foster care mucking sucked, but being in an ITC was worse

[glass parcel]

Yeah.. "lost in the system" as a contest of administrative illegality, about psychs being me pervasively to make up a reason and isolated and forced an internationalisation against socialisation, cant go into.
Couldn't have warframe there either way though.

[lean garden]

the sp alert? whats rhe issue?

[glass parcel]

Sounds rough. Our carer was this specialised role in a house which kinda bypasses this, but definitely heard stories to alternative situations.

Empathise, but we can't trauma dump in WF.

[fast dew]

Oh that. That feels too familiar. I was in an intensive therapeutic care placement due to. A thing I did. For like. 3 years. Couldn't have shit. Wasn't even allowed to use an oven and I wasn't really allowed outside without supervision, which lead to me being giga isolated bcs I couldn't. Leave the house 😭 this eventually lead to halving staff, which lead to a bunch of other shit including me being forgotten repeatedly during escalations from the other people next door.

BUT YES WARFRAME LORE

[pale cedar]

DE didn't call them alerts and I haven't done them for ages is the issue

[lean garden]

wait whats the hacking bit then

[pale cedar]

Oh, DE basically turned off matchmaking due to getting hacked

Invites leading to a giant wall of text if you accept

Thats why it's not recommended to do rn

[radiant pier]

wait I have a question

how is the....technocyte coda railjack thing explained in-universe

[fast dew]

Mm, as in them being in the future?

[radiant pier]

yes

[strange plinth]

there's not much in-game for it, but there was a dev qna a while back
as for why the stadium/how it gets up there, nothing afaik

[radiant pier]

and in space

so there's just....deadass, a stadium for a virus boyband in space, thousands of years into the future?

[fast dew]

Yeah

Pretty much

[radiant pier]

or The Drifter going into 1999 through the helminth unintentionally caused 1999 stuff to form in our current year

[strange plinth]

mhm
it may not have been the stadium the whole time, nor actively trying to infest anything
it just. reactivates when it notices that "void-saturated DNA" it was tracking

[radiant pier]

the former or the latter?

[fast dew]

Me? Oh it was always there iirc

[radiant pier]

....that's...kinda hilarious

[fast dew]

Think like how before we even access 1999, Flare is still Temple

[radiant pier]

no idea who those are

are there any.... twin great swords in the game

[strange plinth]

don't think so?

[radiant pier]

NOOOO

[jolly root]

Thatd be cool

[pale cedar]

Infestation getting a stadium into space is probably the least shocking thing

[uneven dune]

so what actually The Quills are

[misty helm]

I would personally just discard that as a gameplay element and nothing more. I highly doubt anybody, even less a hivemind virus, could've just casually travel to Jupiter and set a stadium there Like, a lot of that doesn't make sense at all

Back in 1999, I mean

Unless we're assuming the techrot, somehow traveled to the future and did the thing in record time or somehow it slipped past thousands of years unnoticed, specially under the prime Orokin-era technology (as they basically conquered the entire solar system)

[pale cedar]

They're futureseers who follow Unum

[uneven dune]

I never seen Unum or any entities mentioned in other stories so

[pale cedar]

Onkko can see Eternalism which is why he abandoned Saya

“Saya... If he- if Onkko- if I could have shown her how catalogues of possible futures fanned out from the moment I could choose, could have chosen, to stay, none of them end, ended, well. None, save one: this one. The one where I left. This future ends so well for her, for Konzu, for Cetus. As eviscerating a choice as it was, it was the only one I could live with. Some day, I swear, this is- but- this was... this will be borne out. Speak of this no more. To be crushed by the singular excruciates. What's done is done. Enough.”

[uneven dune]

they nearly just don't relate to most stories lol and we still have to enhance gears by them

[pale cedar]

She gave the Quills power
She's in New War and stopped Time
She is the reason Gara blew herself up
She just rarely allows people to see her

[strong viper]

Our Lady of Guadalupe lookin ahh

[uneven dune]

what? am I playing wrong warframe

[strong viper]

No i meant Unum

[pale cedar]

She also allows Cetus to blow her up for tower meat

[strong viper]

Weirldly parallels Fishing Hamlet kinda

[pale cedar]

She also is the reason there's a barrier around the plains

[ashen pulsar]

I love seeing new players call warframes tenno

[pale cedar]

Factions also call Warframes Tenno so they must be new players too

[ashen pulsar]

they haven’t played the war within so yeah I suppose they are

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-thinking-monkey-thinking-think-money-gif-9734025314392564509

[lean garden]

I thought the stadium was over earth proxima not jupiter proxima?

yea the stadium is over earth not jupiter

a rando rock chilling in earth's orbit sounds about normal

especially in the context of the planet having at least 18 wars where nukes were used

[ocean geyser]

Yeah it’s Earth Proxima
What’s even funnier is that the Techrot uses train cars as ramsleds

How
How do you even get that to propel itself through space

[strange turtle]

Also like, the Orokin weren’t exactly Infestophobic purists really dedicated to exterminating it

[pale cedar]

Lug it

[strange turtle]

Our horrors past, our ravaged outer colonies… became gardens!"

[ocean geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-gif-26569189

[strange turtle]

If it wasn’t an active danger or major concern they’d probably just, leave it until they actively wanted to do something in the area

[strange plinth]

dormant infested rock around earth isn't really an issue for them
its waiting for operator/drifter to show up again rather than drawing attention

[ocean geyser]

Randomly thinking about how blue Oldframe was

[ocean geyser]

Dawg is blue as hell with that lighting

[ocean geyser]

Yeah
So it would basically have been inert until they noticed us in the future, right?

It wouldn’t have been dangerous cause the Techrot would just be napping

[pale cedar]

DE ruined Loid when they changed the lighting making him go from Blonde to Grey

[ocean geyser]

You’d probably have to trespass to even get any action out of it

[ocean geyser]

I mean he old

[pale cedar]

He is but
He was in ice

Literally made him even older

[misty helm]

How do you even get that into space in the first place*

The plague is suddenly capable of solving the rocket equation

By the power of evolving to fart things into space

[sly pagoda]

Its techrot. It likely just has to infest a supply of rockets.

If that crap eventually spread into what is Russia IRL or the upper midwestern USA. The techrot would have ICBMs to use. And an ICBM is just a space rocket with payload that has a less favorable task.

[woven coyote]

Personally i just find it more likely that infestation spores reach a random asteroid orbiting earth and it just replicates the stadium, since altering matter is well within its capabilities and they can just "remember" what the stadium looks like at any point

[limber hull]

Any ideas on how the coda liches escape the loop or travel in Time tonreach earth proxima?
The same applies to temple but it seems the loop stops at somepoint.

[woven coyote]

The loop doesnt have a physical barrier

Also flare literally says kaya is helping them escape

[sly pagoda]

Loop very likely is contained to Hollvania.

Think like the SG-1 episode Window of Opportunity. Only Earth and that planet the gate was connected to were looped.

[woven coyote]

And infestation can just replicate a form it knows, and they can remember that kind of stuff across time

It really is quite easy when you think of the capabilites of everyone involved in these scenarios

[sly pagoda]

How the rest of the world does not notice hollvania having Groundhog Day, I dunno but it could be that tight of a quarantine.

[woven coyote]

I'll see if i can find it but i think quincy mentions talking to his family outside hollvania

Also i think minnerva and velimir might mention something about what the outside thinks of hollvania

Since they spy'd themselves into hollvania

[drifting lintel]

They take the long way around

[drifting lintel]

Also the loop eventually ends.
From an outside perspective and in history the year of 1999 is only the last loop.

Drifter makes a bunch of codas go dorment, includes them in the loop protection they do for the hex, eventually ends the loop, operator or drifter kills them in the future.

[restive river]

The coda aren’t being protected they just remember cause infested

[restive river]

How is anyone else going to remember what happened? The hex only remember cause they’re infested

The loop is like a loop de loop on a line
The line continues outside of the loop but the loop remains
At the end of the loop any changes made follow through into the future

[fast dew]

Loid 💔

[ashen pulsar]

the current 1999 loop is what is considered the "last" one
any events that happen in this loop are the events that happened in the year 1999, to us

[drifting lintel]

That's uh ... Not how time loops work

Like with groundhog Day. The outside world only experienced the last day he went through in the movie

[ashen pulsar]

the future can't account for what will happen in later loops that drifter hasn't experienced.

[drifting lintel]

Maybe the game can't because of medium limitations but canonically yes it does

[fast dew]

Nah, iirc the world only uses one correct loop, that being the good ending to the hex + kaya getting out and helping Flare

Oh wait. I think something ingame helps with this

Palimpsest of Space-time maybe..

[restive river]

Well no, history uses whatever loop we make at the end of each loop

[ashen pulsar]

if that was true we'd never see codas

in the origin system

because the only coda we ever killed was whichever one, if any, that we killed in whatever the "last" loop is

[restive river]

There is no true loop of events, we rewrite the events within the loop and that gets carried through into the future
This doesn’t make branching timelines because of the palimpsest of Spacetime

[fast dew]

Wasnt one of the reasons as to why Albrecht set the loop up was to avoid severely changing history?

[drifting lintel]

Yes we would. They go dorment and the techrot/infested are unaffected by time loops. So they just persist while everything else resets.

This is why the hex remember the previous loop.

[ashen pulsar]

so this isn't how it works

[restive river]

Think of the timeline as a book
The loop is just one chapter
We can rewrite things in that chapter but it doesn’t effect things in the future in such a way that it’s an entirely different book, rather small changes carry through to later chapters

[fast dew]

The hex are allowed to remember the loop, they do not innately recall each one

[ashen pulsar]

I agree with this. it's not based off of some chapter we haven't written yet, rather only the one we've currently written down

[restive river]

Idk why that man does anything he does anymore 😭
But maybe
The events in 1999, especially with the timespan we’re confined to, doesn’t change that much on the large scale of things
We can rewrite the Hex’s fate but that won’t change the 18 nukes

[ashen pulsar]

there are just... traces, from changing the story too much, that happen to get left behind. like coda weapons.

[fast dew]

Mm, the nuking of the techrot might though, which i think is one concern? He does a lot of shit and never explains half of it

[drifting lintel]

I was simplifying.

I'm just speculating here but I would presume drifter connects the hex to their helminths hive mind so that they can remember previous loops, and then disconnects them before the loop resets to reset them.

[restive river]

The reactor goes off regardless, it’s only with the Drifter that it can be stopped

[fast dew]

2. What is the core thesis of The Palimpsest of Spacetime?

A. Events can be rewritten; traces of the original persist (correct)
B. Everything that exists could, at any point, be erased

For those who are unaware (this being Albrecht's own Daughter's work!)

[restive river]

They’re always connected to the hivemind technically, it’s just with Drifter’s help that they can remember things from previous loops

[ashen pulsar]

euleria/mother/albrecht's daughter/gomaitru

[drifting lintel]

From the operator's perspective it never goes off. Because the version of events that happens in history is the good ending.

[ashen pulsar]

the version of events that happens is that every year, we stop it from happening

and then that carries on

[drifting lintel]

No the outside world only sees one year go by. The last year that happens

[fast dew]

I don't think its ever fully explained, because you don't need to be infested in order to retain memories of past loops, Albrecht i believe isn't affected by the memory aspect of the loop

[strange turtle]

It’s explained in KIM

[restive river]

From the Operator’s perspective they’re not even aware it happened
But also there was a time when it did go off
Events can be rewritten, it’s still the same timeline

[strange turtle]

They’re in “batches”, and Drifter can mess with these

[fast dew]

Euleria/Mother/Albrecht's daughter/||Gerivaine's|| daughter/Gomaitru

[restive river]

Reactor going off or not that’s still the past, it still happened
There’s no one true one that ends up happening when Drifter has a consistent way to rewrite the events

[ashen pulsar]

the last loop hasn't happened. the drifter hasn't experienced it yet.

[restive river]

The loop where the reactor goes off and the loop where it doesn’t doesn’t change the larger timeline to the point it’s a different branch

[drifting lintel]

There was a time that the reactor goes off.
But due to the drifter's loop it is overwritten and it never happened. Because on new years eve they stopped the meltdown.

[restive river]

Also there is no last loop, the loop is continuing (somehow)

[ashen pulsar]

the future can't be based on something a time traveler hasn't done

yet

[jolly root]

Hang on albrecht has a wife named gerivaine damn i always thought he like crewted her in a lab (joke)

[restive river]

But it did happen, it’s just that that event has been rewritten

[fast dew]

Perhaps its perpetuated by the drifter's presence

[drifting lintel]

Right now yes but for anything after 1999 to exist at all it will have to end.

[restive river]

How was it perpetuated before then tho

[ashen pulsar]

her name was GERIVAINE?!

thats unfortunate

[fast dew]

I like to believe Euleria is a lab baby

[fast dew]

I think its a pretty name :(

[restive river]

What
Yeah
The loop both ends and continues

Imagine 1999 as a chapter in a book
That chapter is still happening even when you get to the year 2000 and beyond

[fast dew]

It is some like. White British shit but I still think its pretty

[drifting lintel]

And from the perspective of something living in the year 2000 it did not happen. Because the hex and a time traveler stopped it from happening.

[jolly root]

More french actually

[ashen pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-headpats-protoframe-eleanor-nightingale-gif-8680164481766692212

[restive river]

Yes, from a random person’s perspective the timeline didn’t change at all
But it did still change.

[restive river]

Good gif lol

[ashen pulsar]

did I really just get embed failed
can you people see this?

[jolly root]

Yes

[ashen pulsar]

damn I can't

[fast dew]

Mm, it was a lot weaker than the current one, perhaps Albrecht had. A tool? Cosmic clock shit go

[pale cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/jesus-ballin-mars-bars-gif-19910027

[drifting lintel]

Yes that's what I'm saying.

From the perspective of someone who isn't infested and isn't a time traveler the world only follows the chain of events of the year when the drifter breaks the loop.

[restive river]

Idk if it was weaker, it was just shorter

[fast dew]

And what's more British than to steal a cultural name for yourself

[restive river]

Yes but
The loop isn’t breaking, it’s persistent and time continues

[strange turtle]

No, there’s just no changes big enough to make a noticeable difference in each loop by the time it reaches Orokin era

[fast dew]

I mean its not as intense? Wouldn't need as much energy to maintain perhaps

[restive river]

It’s literally like a loop de loop in sonic
The loop exists and so does the path forward

[drifting lintel]

I was just explaining how time works

[restive river]

Ig
But the year long loop is also due to Albrecht, according to Loid

[drifting lintel]

In a sonic loop de loop there's an off ramp you do the loops and then it ends.

[restive river]

It’s an analogy :p
it’s a line
with a loop
the line continues beyond the loop
the loop is the entire year of 1999

[strange turtle]

Every time there’s a loop and new things happen, those changes carry through. But the coda are the only things that last long enough for us to notice each time the loop events and is altered and the aftermath changes

[restive river]

The loop both does and does not end
It exists for those within it and does not for those outside of it

[drifting lintel]

Wait I just realized something.
Arthur: "you said this was a loop!"

Didn't Arthur say this during whispers in the walls...? When we were controlling him?

[fast dew]

Nah, not whispers, 1999 iirc

And yeah, the loop existed previous to the drifter

[restive river]

The crushing realization that the moment the clock hits midnight the loop resets, Drifter is pulled back to the start, a version of their friends persist but another version are now outside the loop

[strange turtle]

No that was 1999

After the whole “Marty Mcflea” bit

[restive river]

Oh my god you leave your partner after the kiss
Like
Unintentionally

[drifting lintel]

That's not what happens tho

[restive river]

Kalymos just sitting there after you pet and hugged her, confused as to where the Drifter went

[restive river]

It is though what
Drifter doesn’t persist into the year 2000

[fast dew]

That is? Drifter doesn't extend past the loop

[fast dew]

KALYMOS NO

I get why Albrecht left her there though

Id be more pissed if he didnt

[restive river]

We need to get her out of 1999 so that she isn’t sad and also doesn’t get bombed 18 times

[drifting lintel]

Omfg I've been explaining it over and over.

Time does not continue until drifter breaks the loop.

From the perspective of someone living in 2000 the hex stop the meltdown and the drifter does something to end the loop.

There are remnants of previous loops but history only remembers the last one that happens.

[restive river]

It literally does continue, the loop is never broken.

[strange turtle]

Quincy: "Didn't come out here to cut an' hide. If Doctor E won't stop this, then I say we do it. Am I right, Amir? AMIR?"

[Amir, playing on a handheld gaming console, does not react. Quincy's shout startles Eleanor, causing her to drop a paper cup she'd been toying with.]

Arthur: "So where's Entrati? You said this was a loop."

Eleanor: «Not anymore, is it? Your boogeyman changed the rules. You're toast like the rest of us now.»

Drifter: "Seems so. But that means we can change it too."

Arthur: "Stop the nuke."

Quincy: [tsks] "No one listens."

[fast dew]

Realistically her and Albrecht both probably got nuked a lot during their stay in 1999 😭

[restive river]

Oh 1000%
They got nuked many many times

[drifting lintel]

It hasn't yet but the existence of the year 2000 in history, and the rest of the timeline dictates that it eventually ends.

[restive river]

In theory you could calculate the rough amount of times, they’d be getting nuked every 24 hours relatively from when they left for good from when we come in to fix things

[strange turtle]

Eventually, when/if the loop is broken, then yes, those final events will be the final ones that happened. But the changes still happen from the loops before that, over and over

That’s why we get the codas, and why they happen in continuity with our actions

[restive river]

But it doesn’t end
The Coda dictates it does not in fact end
We can make a new one in one loop and that persists to the future
We take care of them
And then we make a new one in the loop

[fast dew]

Perhaps that's punishment enough for his actions if he recalls each death 😭

[restive river]

The changes persist into the greater timeline while the loop continues to exist, it never breaks.

[restive river]

He ain’t infested
But also he’s special and likely found a way to recall events

[stiff fable]

Didn't Albrecht stop the reactor in the loops before Drfiter arrives?

[drifting lintel]

Did you stop to think it's a little weird that the techrot are the only things that do this?

The things that we know exists outside of time?

[fast dew]

Nah we see it go off beforehand

[stiff fable]

oh fair

[fast dew]

The nuke would continually go off, until the drifter comes and fixes it

[stiff fable]

So, Drifter's OG idea was to visit the Hex, use them to grab Albrecht, and make him scram the reactor

[fast dew]

This is why we kinda know Albrecht didn't make the nuke go off, as. He isnt there during the good ending of 1999, and it still tries to go off

[restive river]

They don’t exist outside of time, their perspective of time is just different from our own
The infested hivemind exist in all instances that infested tissue exists across time

Also
Palimpsest of spacetime! Something the game literally teaches us about is that events can be rewritten which is what we’re doing constantly in 1999

[strange plinth]

the loop both ends and does not whenever it reaches 2000. whatever changes were made affect the rest of the timeline until the next loop, when they get overwritten by that loop's changes
its why we have to stay in 1999 to keep the "correct" ending

[jolly root]

He just used it

[strange turtle]

Also that’s the whole. Point of 1999’s post-quest content

Arthur says it himself - they have to keep making sure the good ending happens. Because the loops still going, and each time it changes it’ll follow the natural course without intervention.

[fast dew]

Exactly. You'd be. Horrifically surprised how many folk don't realise that

[strange turtle]

You still need to keep the loop going, though, don't you? Because it's not enough to put things right, is it. We need to keep them right.

Soldiers against the tide. Now and forever.

[stiff fable]

Albrecht is a little bit like Ballas in some ways

He has GOALS, and can adjust his plans very quickly to reach them

[fast dew]

I don't think its adjustment, I think its more. He has plans incase shit fails

[stiff fable]

maybe, but when he threw himself into the Void he didn't expect to land in Duviri

[fast dew]

Which as far as its been going, the only minute failure we've seen was the drifter refusing to go with Albrecht, maybe, and ig getting yoinked by Neci-Wally

[fast dew]

Nah i fully think he tried to ||kill himself|| and just ended up in duviri

[restive river]

I wanna know how Albrecht established the loop and extended it
And if he recalled events

Actually insane if he just drops a “I remember every death” or something

[stiff fable]

yes 100%

[fast dew]

Sitting Albrecht down and asking him questions

[restive river]

Tbh prob the first Orokin to try that

[drifting lintel]

I'm pretty sure there wasn't a loop until drifter showed up.

Speculation here:

• Loid told drifter that the time they're going to is tied in knots and that there are readings of a loop having occurred there.
• Drifter arrives and tells the hex that there's supposed to be a loop
• Eleanor confirms that there isn't a loop going on
• the hex try to stop the nuke
• Albrecht goads the drifter into starting the loop
• the loop continues on for god knows how long
• the loop ends and history continues on
• eventually loid gets the readings of a loop in that time period.

[stiff fable]

"No time to explain Tenno, we have to return to Duviri!!"

Albrecht has left Tau and gone to one of the Lost Islands

[fast dew]

One of the lost islands would've been his i think

[stiff fable]

Yeah that's Isleweaver

though, apparently one of the ideas for a PoE expansion is a lost island arriving there

[restive river]

Albrecht was literally in a loop before Drifter shows up but ok

The problem is when Drifter arrives Wally is gaining control of the loop

Also when does Eleanor confirm that

Also they never stop the reactor nor were aware of it til Drifter brings it up

Albrecht goads the Drifter into caring for the Hex and taking control of the existing loop

And we know the loop isn’t pausing history

[strange plinth]

eleanor says 'not anymore, is it?' because the loop isn't playing out like its "supposed" to

[strange turtle]

Some poor Ostron fisherman watching a giant void fissure tear open the heavens and a whole island crash into the sea in front of him

[stiff fable]

I'd love to see that in a cutscene

[strange turtle]

Oh god. The Golden Maws

[restive river]

Why did they have to be ravenous?

[stiff fable]

Deadlist Catch: Plains of Eidolon

[drifting lintel]

Arthur: "So where's Entrati? You said this was a loop."

Eleanor: «Not anymore, is it? Your boogeyman changed the rules. You're toast like the rest of us now.»

Drifter: "Seems so. But that means we can change it too."

[fast dew]

I assume it wasn't his first try either. The void incident being. Sorta the first I feel yk?

Albrecht being that depressed that it made him reckless and seemingly that indifferent towards if he lives or dies, that he willingly puts himself in the void with no protection bar a diving bell

Jeez Albrecht its almost as if you tried to get yourself killed

[woven coyote]

Yeah she doesnt confirm there wasnt a loop

She confirms there isnt one "anymore" as in at that point in the quest wally ate the loop

[fast dew]

...anymore. not anymore. Meaning there was a loop. Wally broke parts of the loop.

[strange plinth]

also, we see the reactor explosion reverse at the start of the quest? there was a loop

[pale cedar]

We see the Loop before Drifter ever arrived

[restive river]

Yeah that’s not the loop ending, that’s Wally taking control of the existing loop

[drifting lintel]

My reading of this is that Arthur is questioning because they weren't aware of a loop.

And Eleanor says that because she read our mind. We're thinking that there isn't one anymore because we expected one to already be in place.

[fast dew]

Id also point out the 1999 section in whispers

This. Also being a loop

[restive river]

The Hex aren’t aware of the loop til Drifter tells them about it

[drifting lintel]

That's explained by just being late and then coming back earlier in the same day, erasing that hour or so of time.

[restive river]

The loop existed on New Years Eve only until Albrecht (or Drifter) extend it
Which the extension only happens when Drifter takes control from Wally

[fast dew]

Yeah. Except that its a loop.

[strange plinth]

there's also an important piece of context just before that, being that entrati should've been in the interrogation room, but was not. the "boogeyman" already broke in and got him before we could. the loop isn't progressing as it should've

'if this is a loop, where's entrati now?'
'not the same loop anymore'

[fast dew]

Drifter is not present during that loop, if it was the same loop drifter was in, Arthur wouldn't be in the train station

[drifting lintel]

I just think the drifter was straight up wrong. That the loop loid got readings of was the one we create

[stiff fable]

unless Albrecht can make changes to the loop as well

[restive river]

Albrecht sitting in his loop for ??? Years
Whispers happens
Wally takes control of the loop slowly
The Hex Quest happens
Loop extended, Drifter in control

[fast dew]

No, there's evidence of a loop prior to drifter

Albrecht being in 1999 for countless years being one of them

Not aging one bit

[drifting lintel]

Alternatively:
Albrecht goes back in time for a short stint to set up events so drifter makes a loop.
Whispers happens
The hex happens
Drifter makes a loop.

[fast dew]

Kalymos being alive too, she would've died of old age

[restive river]

From my understanding that’s not how time travel works in Warframe, since that’d be a sort of paradox
Loid reads there was a loop so we go there to make the loop
Which isn’t what happens

By that same logic Lua spy vaults should already be solved when we get there

[restive river]

Wally takes control of the loop in the Hex quest and at the start of the quest we see that there’s already a loop tho

[drifting lintel]

It's called a bootstrap paradox. My argument is that Albrecht intentionally set one up so drifter would be forced to connect to the hex and regain his emotions.

[fast dew]

Like drifter can be wrong about things in like. The KIM but I really don't think the game will mislead something so significant and major

Oh no, we dont do bootstrapping

Iirc it is explicitly avoided

[restive river]

You know
He probably ages slow and that likely goes for Kalymos too
But also he just has a time machine

[strange plinth]

there's quite a bit of effort gone into avoiding paradoxes, outside of the one paradox that has a whole quest about it

[restive river]

Yeah there isn’t a bootstrap paradox here, that’s not how Warframe works

[restive river]

Lua Spy vaults should be a bootstrap paradox
And they aren’t
So those don’t exist

[fast dew]

Time travel in warframe is just slightly different

Time in warframe is just different

Mainly because. I am so sorry. Eternalism

[restive river]

If this was your run of the mill time travel then sure, cool, a paradox
But it isn’t

[restive river]

Well no
More so the palimpsest

[fast dew]

Im meaning that time as a whole, not just time travel 😭

[restive river]

Oooh
Sorry
Yes :]

[drifting lintel]

Okay so exactly what is happening?

How does Albrecht make a loop when only 1 person has been shown to have the ability?

How does the coda exist but nothing else from that time?

How does the game avoid a paradox anyways if Albrecht starts the loop instead of drifter?

[fast dew]

Albrecht was in duviri

[stiff fable]

Alb--yes that

[strange turtle]

Also
Time tech is a thing

[drifting lintel]

That doesn't explain anything

[stiff fable]

The Coda hides in the overall infested hivemind

[fast dew]

He knows the loop exists, he probably yoinked something from there. Or replicated whatever triggers the loop inside the throne

[stiff fable]

and pops back out in the future when it senses the Operator at the correct time

[fast dew]

Similar to how Flare does I feel

[restive river]

1. We don’t know bro just does that, but he was in Duviri
2. Coda are. Infested?? I don’t understand the problem there, we know it survives
3. There’s no paradox if Albrecht makes the loop

[woven coyote]

Technically the duviri resets are more of a work of thrax and the throne than drifter

[drifting lintel]

Time tech uses the infested hive mind.
I already said the exact same thing Capitan just did and everyone said I was wrong.

[restive river]

We don’t know how he time travelled back actually

[fast dew]

No it doesn't, there's different time travel types it seems

[stiff fable]

Flare is even simpler than that, they just use a comet that swings in and out of the Origin System every few hundred years and hide out that after transforming into Temple

[strange turtle]

How does the coda exist but nothing else from that time?

Coda lies dormant and chills, not doing or interacting with anything. Everything else goes through the 11,000~ years as normal

[restive river]

Like yes the infestation can be used to time travel to any point the infestation exists
Uh
We don’t know how Albrecht specifically did it

[strange turtle]

Nope

[stiff fable]

Albrecht's method has SOMETHING to do with the coffin

[restive river]

They sniff out our void-soaked genes to track us too!

[strange turtle]

Protea

[woven coyote]

Yeah so far we have seen
Kaya
Albrecht sarcophagus
And the helminth stunt he pulled with roathe

[drifting lintel]

I did forget about the coffin

[fast dew]

Albrecht shoved folk into the helminth mouth and it seemingly spat them out

[stiff fable]

Loid smashing it closed that path to anyone else

[strange turtle]

Also another thing I’m not remembering + the coffin yeah

[restive river]

And transference + vessels connection to the Hex

[pale cedar]

Wally followed him anyway

[stiff fable]

However, Wally pulled off a different version

[strange turtle]

Also Unum too, but that’s stopping and not loop/reversal/travel

[stiff fable]

as far as we know

[restive river]

Which that should only work if they’re infested
Which he himself is not
So he has an alternative

[stiff fable]

Also, the Drifter apparently time travels via Duviri

Following that path is how Kaya reaches the Origin System

[fast dew]

The strength that man had in that cutscene. I can imagine Albrecht being rightfully worried that Loid might do it too soon and crush his ribcage 💔

[restive river]

What

[drifting lintel]

Actually he could have injected himself with a homegrown strain of infested to keep himself normal, allow immortality, and allow him to time travel.

[fast dew]

He absolutely wouldn't have

[drifting lintel]

Why not?

[fast dew]

It seems his tech blocks out infested people

[strange turtle]

Getting Infected links you up to the Hivemind no matter what which is. Not good for any amount of time

[restive river]

I don’t think he’d do that
Homegrown or not he’d succumb to it eventually and he can’t afford that

[fast dew]

That too

[drifting lintel]

So idk how the coffin sent him back then.

[restive river]

him succumbing to the hivemind could save him from Wally actually

[restive river]

Nobody does!

Void tech go brrrrr

[stiff fable]

    Kaya: Mhmm, all your footsteps really are the key to me 'following safely, you know.'
    Kaya: It's like a big glowing Voidy Exit sign, when it comes to particles being attracted to their next form.```

[restive river]

If Kaya can figure it out then he can do it but better so

[drifting lintel]

Oh right the void is just outside time

[fast dew]

As loid goes, "such a resourceful man."
-# I genuinely cannot tell if that line is supposed to be sarcastic or genuine admiration

[strange turtle]

Also DE seems to have this
little thing going on with immortality in WF rn so I doubt they’d handle it like that

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/both-is-good-both-road-to-el-dorado-gif-14998369

[drifting lintel]

Yesn't

[stiff fable]

Albrecht took Scholar's Landing with him when he left Duviri, so I think he's using it as his own personal TARDIS

[woven coyote]

Hahaha was about to say that

[restive river]

This more reads that because they were in Duviri Kaya was able to pinout the Origin System easier, not due to Duviri Drifter can time travel

[restive river]

Why’d he leave Oraxia ):

[strange turtle]

Random Archimedean watching a random island that doesn’t match anything ever fly past the window knowing they can’t tell anyone or they’ll be the next Albrecht

[fast dew]

That line is genuinely the line that confirmed they were. Fully a thing 😭 like oh my god you two have issues but that line was. Said in such a way

[drifting lintel]

Iirc the man in the wall wants its fingers back specifically because them remaining in the real world locks him into the same time and cause/effect as them.

[strange turtle]

(As in the whole, reputation as a loon he got later)

[drifting lintel]

So maybe you can just slip through time in the void.

[strange turtle]

He wants his original finger, because lacking it binds him to the “strands of Khra”

[drifting lintel]

Yeah the timeline

[stiff fable]

An excellent question, the most messed up answer being that he didn't and Wally just brought her back and set her loose in a familiar place

[fast dew]

Perhaps he left oraxia thinking she would help defend duviri

[drifting lintel]

Khra is time.

Strand of khra is a fancy way of saying the timeline.

He's bound to our timeline because of the fingers. Without them he'd be outside of time like the infested.

[fast dew]

Where's the Loid line

[restive river]

Wally did show up to her as him, or used his voice idr
He def manipulated her

[fast dew]

With Fibonacci mocking it too

[stiff fable]

not that she needed much manipulation

[fast dew]

Used his voice iirc

[stiff fable]

Wally: "Hey do you want to keep killing and eating forever"
Oraxia: "BOY DO I"

[pale cedar]

The master why are you hurting me one?

[restive river]

Wally’s capable of both so I couldn’t remember if it was both or just voice

[fast dew]

No the. The one where he explains the strands of khra. But that line also goes hard

[stiff fable]

It honestly felt more to me like Wally tempting her into pretending he's the real Albrecht when she should know better

[pale cedar]

The Strands of Khra are merely void renderings of the chains of cause and effect.
Conteptually embodied timelines, if you will.”

[stiff fable]

honestly, cool scene

[restive river]

@fast dew what do you think Oraxia’s relationship was with him actually
I think more guard dog than any amount of actual affection tbh

[drifting lintel]

So without being bound to the timeline he'd be able to be outside of it and affect it however he wants.

So given that, someone who's completely disconnected from the timeline by just being in the void without a tether would be able to travel along the strands.

[fast dew]

Well even a guard dog feels affection to its owner. The owner... mm. Given the orokin sentiment that warframes are just objects, perhaps he didn't feel much

[restive river]

Do you think she cared for him at all? 🥺

[drifting lintel]

Oraxia probably cared for Albrecht.
I have no clue if Albrecht cared for he tho

[pale cedar]

She cared enough to be convinced by Wally

[fast dew]

I think he did, I do think he knew that warframes were human once, or worse, that there was an operator inside

SHE ABSOLUTELY DID

[stiff fable]

he definitely knew at some point since he made Qorvex

[fast dew]

Mucking. Keyboard.

Wrong reply 💔

[pale cedar]

Tbh we don't know if he made Qorvex

[woven coyote]

They did have dante

[drifting lintel]

He did

[restive river]

“Designed”
Sorry :p

[fast dew]

He designed qorvex

[restive river]

Designed =/= physically made

[fast dew]

Mm, they didn't have him. He was a friend of Loid's via Drusus

[pale cedar]

Designing and making are sometimes separate in this game see Protea Prime

[stiff fable]

y'all are going to get a Qorvex Prime trailer and be real confused that there was a working model :V

[woven coyote]

Loid mentions dante helping them with their libraries

[fast dew]

Yeah. But I wouldn't call him owned by the entrati or anything

[drifting lintel]

Qorvex might never have actually been printed tho.

[restive river]

Oh I won’t be
I want to believe he really did design and create him fully

Qorvex was the training wheels for the protos
Totally

[fast dew]

If its qorvex prime then chances are Albrecht didn't make that one lol

[restive river]

Might never have, yes!
All we know is he was designed for us, that’s it

[drifting lintel]

Quorvex might be the one warframe that was never a real person.

[fast dew]

Its explicitly said that it was regular Qorvex he designed

[restive river]

But we don’t know what goes into designing a frame, it’s possible the design process to some extent includes having a specific person in mind to be helminthed

[stiff fable]

oh man

[restive river]

He kinda has to be to be a Warframe

[fast dew]

Also prime trailers generally don't. Refer to the actual prime frames creation story

[stiff fable]

What if it turns out that there is no Qorvex Warframe, but there IS a Qorvex proto

[fast dew]

Yeah me

[restive river]

And it’s Albrecht omg

[fast dew]

Thats me

[restive river]

YOU’RE ALBRECHT?

[stiff fable]

and he actually is the proto prototype

[fast dew]

NO IM QORVEX

[restive river]

[stiff fable]

https://klipy.com/gifs/warframe-whispers-in-the-wall

[fast dew]

Nah im Albrecht fr cus I am haunted by the choices I made

[woven coyote]

Meant have as in have him over lol

Also this line about damte wanting to examine loids replicated skull lol

[stiff fable]

Albrecht go back to Loid

[pale cedar]

No you're Tormis

[fast dew]

I think that line is cute. Both sides. Loid being protective of his skull and Dante wanting to see his skull

Also shout out to the entrati for having multiple ossuaries

[pale cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/tony-stark-not-a-great-plan-no-gif-14973533

[drifting lintel]

Maybe?
We can literally print out Warframes using nuroptics, systems, and chassis.
Those are presumably reverse engineered into blueprints from the original helmenthed person.
But it's theoretically possible to design one without reverse engineering a vivisected mutated person.

[fast dew]

Nuh uh

[pale cedar]

Don't know why you picked a name so close to Tormis to hide the fact you're Tormis

[fast dew]

Nemesis don't blow my cover they can't know

[stiff fable]

changing the subject completely, do we think that there are surviving Orokin on Tau

[fast dew]

Absolutely not

[pale cedar]

Yeah, Albrecht

[fast dew]

Maybe Albrecht when he gets there

[stiff fable]

I think it's actually very possible, if they didn't all come home before Hunhow chopped the rail

[drifting lintel]

I was originally gonna say no.

But it's possible the sentients spared the children.

[fast dew]

What children?

[restive river]

In theory maybe but then that excludes a key aspect that the tenno need to control the frames
Qorvex needs to be a traumatized person for us to trauma bond

[stiff fable]

See, I don't know how many Sentients are still around. My guess for Tau has always been "Mad Max in space"

[fast dew]

Traumatised from. Albrecht yapping about the horrors™

[restive river]

No but I’d love to have Nitokh be kept alive and strung up somewhere in Tau >:)

[fast dew]

"Oh yeah so the void blasted my skin off. Wanna see a photo?"

[drifting lintel]

Umbra was the only person we had to do that with.

Because of the umbra chip

[fast dew]

No?

[stiff fable]

oh man that'd be messed up

[pale cedar]

Orokin were banned from Tau by Hunhow and it was only Ballas who showed up prior

[fast dew]

We do it to all warframes

[restive river]

“WHY WONT THIS DUDE SHUT UP”
“And that’s when Kalymos got sick ):”
“I DON’T CARE 😭”

Totally real

[stiff fable]

If it turned out that Nitokh had actually survived by hiding on Tau

[fast dew]

If only we could do it to Roach too.

[restive river]

We torture him a different way

Roathe haters both love and hate Descendia
Hate it cause roathe
Love it cause roathe PAIN

[pale cedar]

Great

Another Orokin to kill so we can finally end the Naga Drums

[restive river]

Also love it cause good gameplay

[drifting lintel]

Not the printed ones.
Ones printed at the foundry are completely braindead.
Only the originals, such as umbra due to the chip, and jade during the pregnancy, had any memories or emotions.

[stiff fable]

Descendia also has the hardest background music in the game right now

[drifting lintel]

The jade we print in the foundry is also braindead before you ask

[pale cedar]

Warframes aren't braindead

[drifting lintel]

They're empty gen 3s

[fast dew]

"This is my Daughter's first birthday :D"

"Please let me go i swear by I won't tell anyone please let me go i have a family-"

"And this is my boyfriend after he greened out from nestawood- this is also where I figured throwing animals into the void would help!"

[pale cedar]

There is no frame generations in the manner you think

[fast dew]

Albrecht just slowly being more annoying after he kidnapped a person

[restive river]

Umbra retained memories due to his BOLT
The Jade we make is as “braindead” as the rest
But their minds are still in there as seen with Umbra, they aren’t erased

We actually do not know why sapient frames we’ve replicated don’t retain their sapience, could it be due to a bolt or something else being installed? We don’t actually know!
But we do know remnants of the mind exist.

[pale cedar]

And, no they aren't empty shells they have emotions and can act on their own

[restive river]

Qorvex just hates Albrecht cause bro is a yapper

[fast dew]

Yaps about his special interest, the hit band On-lyne

[restive river]

Every frame is still a person!
Even subdued their consciousness has to exist in there :]

[stiff fable]

The generations are "original generation" made from a person and "copies of that individual Warframe"

[drifting lintel]

No it's literally explained in the sacrifice that the only reason our umbra is angry is due to the bolt replaying the memory of him killing his son on loop.

[restive river]

“I DON’T CARE ABOUT THE NEON GLOW”

[restive river]

Yes
I know
I said thay

We don’t know why other frames don’t retain their sapience, we don’t know the actual reason.

[pale cedar]

It's also shown to your face before Sacrifice that they can move on their own

[fast dew]

Reckon Albrecht would just make the person play doom with a gun to their head head and go "look braincells playing doom :D"

[stiff fable]

Real talk the funniest thing about Old Peace is that Lyon hates On-lyne so much it shakes his religious faith

[drifting lintel]

Printed ones are empty shells.
The only exemption is umbra because of the bolt.
Originals are not empty shells.

[fast dew]

He also gets migraines [real] and mad motion sickness

[stiff fable]

point of order the printed ones retain memories of being their original self

[restive river]

Idle animations are remnants of the subdued consciousness of the frame but alright
They’re all empty shells

[stiff fable]

Being Lyon is suffering

[pale cedar]

Your foundry built frame moved on its own in TSD while you was being strangled because it's motivation that allows them to move

[restive river]

This ain’t marathon, the frames are still very much so people
Just subdued

[drifting lintel]

The only example of this is umbra. And they explain that the bolt is why he does.

[fast dew]

Lyon is genuinely so relatable

[drifting lintel]

That is literally never explained.

[pale cedar]

Stalker
Jade
Your frame

[restive river]

Idle animations
Our frame moving on its own in the second dream

Also yeah we do just have many frames that had sapience lol

Kullervo for instance

[fast dew]

The acolytes if they count

Oraxia too

[pale cedar]

DE confirmed it wasn't us moving the frame

[drifting lintel]

Stalker isn't printed! Neither is jade!

I was talking about printed frames.

[restive river]

Which yes the ones that have sapience are the gen 1 frames but that’s due to the gen 2 frames being subdued for easier tenno control, their minds are still in there lol

[restive river]

And Umbra proves their memories persist and so does the infestation so

Printed or not
They are people

[pale cedar]

Umbra is printed

[stiff fable]

I don't think there's any "subduing" going on, Warframes are just quiescent because they have Operators now

[drifting lintel]

Umbra. Has. The. Bolt.

The. Bolt. That. Explicitly. Replays. The. Memory. On. Loop.

[pale cedar]

They're calmed not braindead

[stiff fable]

Like, the Orokin didn't know HOW to subdue Warframes, that's why the rebellions happened in the first place

[pale cedar]

Which gives him motivation

[fast dew]

Yeah don't they just get very calm and complacent once they get their therapy

[pale cedar]

You aren't you when you ain't got your therapist

[drifting lintel]

And he's the only example in game of a frame we control that has its own thoughts.
Other than Jade, who is an original.

[stiff fable]

pfffft

[fast dew]

This is true

[stiff fable]

absolutely killer line

Anyway, Sevagoth

The Shadow, who is not Sevagoth, kept the Tempestarii going

[midnight ice]

just realized that sevagoths shadow during bleedout has the same eating mechanics as duviri ravenous maw #myfish

[pale cedar]

The point is they don't gotta be an original to not be braindead

[fast dew]

#albrechthasyourfish

[pale cedar]

All frames are perfectly capable of action if their therapist child is in danger

[fast dew]

Get me sedated enough and tell me they're gonna kill my therapist and see what happens

[woven coyote]

As shown in the second dream

[fast dew]

Fun experiment

[drifting lintel]

Originals: People who were infected with the helminth strain, you are required to take away their pain to control them.
Printed: not people, empty shells that the operators control, only carry vestiges of their original selves in muscle memory.
Umbras: printed frames who also have the umbra bolt installed. The bolt holds the memories of the original. You need to take away its pain to control it.

[stiff fable]

ehhhhhh

[fast dew]

Ehh

[stiff fable]

The issue is that there was going to be an Umbra mode for non-Umbra Warframes

Except the Umbra transference bug was unfixable so DE dropped it

[pale cedar]

Jade’s motivation was her child

Stalkers was us killing his only chance to save Jade

Umbra was due to having a burning memory on repeat

Our frame in TSD was us in danger

[stiff fable]

that's my counter, unimplemented gameplay mechanics!

[drifting lintel]

So? This is current lore

[pale cedar]

Originality isn't as important as you think

[stiff fable]

The point is that as far as they're concerned it wasn't a problem

They dropped it not because they cared about the lore but because the mechanic didn't go over well with the community and fixing it wasn't worth rewriting the entire game

[drifting lintel]

She was an original

He was an original

He was an umbra

I don't actually have an explanation for that one. Other than our operator controlling it on instinct.

[stiff fable]

Which they've said wasn't it

The frame did it itself

[pale cedar]

Operator was being strangled and had no way to do transference the way you see now

[fast dew]

Need to be in the chair mostly

[pale cedar]

Operator was nerfed by Margulis

[stiff fable]

twice even

It's not until TWW that Operator can do it remotely on their own

[drifting lintel]

The need to be in the chair was a mental block.

It could have been us controlling it on instinct, as a teaser to the fact that we won't need it in the future.

[fast dew]

Nerfed by Margulis, gaslit by wally, forced to therapy by Albrecht

[stiff fable]

See which of your parents really loves you

[midnight ice]

isnt the "take away its pain" line for every frame? we empathize with every frame, "sentient" or not
ballas specifically said we had created monsters we couldn't control. this line comes to me as him speaking in retrospect about the whole project

[stiff fable]

Warframes without Operators devolve into screaming berserk monsters

[midnight ice]

yeah re: rhino prime fragment

[stiff fable]

Valkyr style

[fast dew]

Well Albrecht is the adoptive grandparent

[drifting lintel]

Why would you make a second rhino if the original is still mauling your scientists?

[stiff fable]

Primes weren't the originals is why

And Warframe devolution happens at different speeds

[fast dew]

Cause? They wanna make one without a mouth + primes arent the originals

[drifting lintel]

My point is that the rhino that was mauling scientists was likely the original...

[fast dew]

Yeah, which. Idk if its actually the prime or not, and it wouldn't be the original one we copy

[stiff fable]

So you have the Orokin 501st order 40 Rhino Warframes while High Grandmaster Orkin McFancypants orders a Rhino Prime as his fifth mistress's bodyguard

Within five years they're all being used as fire and forget weapons on different colonies

[woven coyote]

If the copies were as innert as you say why would they have ever needed us

Reminder that transference is a technology before the tenno learn it innately

[drifting lintel]

Because they didn't start making copies until after we made the originals viable

[stiff fable]

I imagine that was probably one of the first things Ballas tried actually

[woven coyote]

Great then put us back in the fridge

They hate us, if they didnt need us they wouldnt use us

[drifting lintel]

Don't the operators also make the Warframes more powerful?

[pale cedar]

No

[stiff fable]

screaming Volt noises
"well if I just clone this recalcitrant Warframe it'll all be fine and dandy"
clone decants
Cloned Volt starts screaming
There are now two screaming Volts

[fast dew]

No?

[woven coyote]

No remember there were frames before the tenno and the only issue was their lack of control

[stiff fable]

In the sense that "the Warframe is now an intelligent soldier instead of a berserk screaming monster", otherwise no

[pale cedar]

The only way they make them more powerful is modding them rather than Void power amping

[fast dew]

The result of the heart failing was. Not really because of us being cut off from the void or anything, warframes likely are connected in some way

[stiff fable]

though, having an Operator DID make them better anti-Sentient weapons, because void beams

And yeah all Orokin construction draws power from the Heart of Deimos

[drifting lintel]

The school abilities and the tauron strikes are things the operators did during the old war.

[stiff fable]

The solar rails and your orbiter would have gone down at that moment too

[drifting lintel]

Maybe not directly but the operators did make the Warframes stronger by augmenting their abilities

[pale cedar]

Space traffic jam

[stiff fable]

This is actually an interesting thing to talk about because most of the Regalia probably went missing when Tauron Academy was destroyed

[woven coyote]

Just throw more warframes at the problem

If you dont need tenno to control them you can just increase their number
And again why use the devils if you dont need them?

[stiff fable]

Margulis I imagine confiscated the rest before modifying the memories of the Tenno who had them

[tall wigeon]

Hello

[fast dew]

Smthn smthn what need does a devil have for forgiveness when hell is a lie spun by madmen or whatever

[drifting lintel]

Because why waste thousands of Warframe copies and the people having to control them when you could send 10 devils.

[stiff fable]

Orokin weren't exactly concerned about waste tbh

[woven coyote]

But you hate the devils, dont need them, and are gonna abandon the origin system once the war is done anyway

[drifting lintel]

True but the devils are right there. Willing to fight.

[fast dew]

They also have a history of getting commandeered and yoinked so

[drifting lintel]

That too you can't yoink a Warframe piloted by a void devil

[stiff fable]

In perfect fairness, that was the Orokin playing both sides of the war

[stiff fable]

they actually can

[fast dew]

They do

[stiff fable]

Galastra has a taunt about that

[drifting lintel]

Not easily.

[fast dew]

They end up killing said operators too

[stiff fable]

"What do you think happened to the Tenno piloting that commandeered prime?"

[fast dew]

They force them to remain inside the frame and probably starve to death

[pale cedar]

“What happened to them can happen to you too”

[fast dew]

More of a reason to hate roach.

Yeah im blaming roach

[woven coyote]

Even the worse version of the ascaris vor uses can do it if it had enough time

[drifting lintel]

Even with the world seeder radiation binding the operator to the warframe I'd imagine it's very very difficult to control a warframe that has a void devil in it.

[stiff fable]

reminder that the playerbase first tried to murder Alad V over killing other Tenno

The radiation is something else afaik

The Ascaris is basically Harbinger ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

[fast dew]

We fight them. Multiple times 😭

[woven coyote]

Seems pretty easy especially under your theory of totally braindead frames with no bond to the tenno

[fast dew]

The prime vanguard we fight are those tenno

[stiff fable]

I suspect the radiation is what Albrecht's looking for

[fast dew]

Mm. I wouldn't think so

[drifting lintel]

There's not the original mind but there's still a tenno in there.

[fast dew]

Radiation disperses eventually

[stiff fable]

Right, but if it was created by a World Seed, another could make it

[woven coyote]

Yeah and there being nothing for the tenno to hold onto or to hold onto the tenno i assume it would be easier no?

If there is no bond with the warframe i just assume it would be easier to take over the warframe

[drifting lintel]

The rebellion bases are the world seeds. So they're basically stuck.

[fast dew]

We aren't sure that they'll be intact or if the sentients dismantled them

[drifting lintel]

The tenno in the vanguard are stuck in them due to the world seed radiation.

The prime ascarias is having to contend with the tenno.

[stiff fable]

we actually don't know that for sure

[fast dew]

And they are controlled by the ascaris prime. And they are successful.

[stiff fable]

Galastra seems to imply that the Ascaris itself locks the Tenno to the frame

[woven coyote]

Again even normal current day ascaris was affecting us (remember vor?)

[drifting lintel]

I know it's successful I was just saying it's difficult.

It's successful because of the specific battle we're in.

If there weren't any world seeds the tenno would just pop out and blast the guy with the ascaris.

[drifting lintel]

At the time of that quest our tenno still thought they were their Warframe.

[strong viper]

Real

Bluegreen and Aoi were the Future colors

Yellowgreen became code for 90s and earlier level computers

Blue was y2k onward. Digital

Daba dee daba die

[strange turtle]

That assumes the person actually piloting the Ascaris is right there and not somewhere else

[strange turtle]

That, doesn’t really mean anything? What they think doesn’t matter, because it doesn’t change what’s actually going on and what the Ascaris would be messing with

They just weren’t aware of the reality of the situation, the situation itself isn’t changed

[ocean geyser]

As well as the gas on Tau being a thing

[worthy flint]

Why my loch name didy is that part of lore

[wooden cave]

what

[worthy flint]

Didy look

[wooden cave]

https://tenor.com/view/what-da-tuna-gif-7414278627555691403

[worthy flint]

I never knew didy was part of the lore

[ashen pulsar]

yeah

for more information, read about the yuvan theatre

[jolly root]

Oh god

[ashen pulsar]

did you read about the yuvan theatre?

is that what happened

[fast dew]

I cannot keep having this conversation

How do you come out of whispers and somehow come to the idea that Albrecht never loved Loid

[humble sierra]

"Part of Dante's quest line is helping Loid come to terms with the fact that Albrecht will never return his feelings"

Dante has one mission node and they don't touch on Albrecht's relationship with Loid at all

[fast dew]

I assume they mean whispers which. Even then is insane

How do you listen to "i only wish I could've been worthy of you, My Loid."

And somehow go "hm he didn't love Albrecht."

[ashen pulsar]

or, yk, THE HEX

IN WHICH THE INDIFFERENCE ATTEMPTS TO IMITATE ALBERT AND LOID AND FAILS

because, as albert says, its' one weakness is love

[strong viper]

Bro did not read the instruction manual

[fast dew]

Deadass bro

[lean garden]

I mean, not sure how much Albrecht loves himself with that kind of self depreciation

[fast dew]

DEADASS

[edgy compass]

Imagine being named ball ass

[jolly root]

I knew it before

[ashen pulsar]

then what was "oh god" about

[jolly root]

That guy you said to read about is gping to have ptsd or something

[acoustic shell]

wait is abrict entrati or loid Granfather? I assume is albrict but am not sure

[lean garden]

albrecht is mother's father

no relation to grandmother who is father's mother

[jolly root]

I like the grandmothers charecter

[fast dew]

He's not, genetics wise, but im sure mother might see him as such

[radiant pier]

so

Kim chat right

are the drifter still in 1999 currently? I finished the first part of the quest a few days ago, now I'm in the Kim chat, Aoi(I think Glimmer is Aoi?) asks about the weather, and we reply "what, like, in space?"

so does that mean we just kinda....hop back and forth whenever?

good to know the drifter knows what "lol" means

[pale cedar]

They directly go back an fourth last we saw Drifter outside optional dating they were in Duviri

[fast dew]

Yeah thats aoi, and. Both? We can just. Leave and enter at will?

That line should change depending on where you are set. If only...

[radiant pier]

oh that's awesome, so the hex just kinda keep up with us when we're not there

[pale cedar]

Drifter just goes back and forth and said as much

[radiant pier]

that's nice!

[pale cedar]

Drifter to Quincy said they may leave but will return

Which is basically what Isleweaver is

[radiant pier]

there's no way I can accidentally date all of them right?

cuz I like the lore so I'm checking all the dialogue but also I don't wanna accidentally date all of em

[pale cedar]

It won't even give you the option

[radiant pier]

just Lettie cuz she's a little mean

[narrow nexus]

yo guys, is there like a compilation of all the stories? I'm already at the new war quest but i'm still confused about most of the story

[pale cedar]

If you're currently dating one it'll just remove the option if you try to date another

Unless you do it with a Hex and a Triad member

[fast dew]

There's the orokin archives, with a transcript of all quests bar the most recent one

[narrow nexus]

oh i found it, thanks

[pale cedar]

https://youtu.be/5ekJpbdRz4Y?si=EfKHi3HXVKk3jKA8

[radiant pier]

so

what's the yellow text mean

[pale cedar]

It's just you picking the good options

Or well the best of the good options

[radiant pier]

I love to imagine Loid typing on a keyboard one finger at a time

oh so they deadass just arrived, the 3 of them

[fast dew]

Yeah lol

[fast dew]

Nah, i think we've see him type before? Or was that Albrecht?

[radiant pier]

that's hilarious

Roathe talks like Sephiroth

I'm sorry I can't take this seriously, so they all text

I love this game

so the Orokin had therapists? Roathe knows about the whole reclined sofa talking thing LMFAO

they can send VMs

[fast dew]

Only roach can

[fast dew]

Tbf he has been around the other two for a while, but im unsure if it came up early enough for that joke to be viable

[radiant pier]

WHO? WHO ASKED ROATHE THIS?

[fast dew]

Asked him what?

[radiant pier]

he's still typing

[fast dew]

The whole. Can the orokin be forgiven

[radiant pier]

oh the kill all other orokin

[loud oriole]

roach does not enjoy the clicky clacky of the keyboard for his mini-novels

[radiant pier]

uh why's it taking so long?

[fast dew]

Nitohk, you'll learn about her.

[radiant pier]

still typing....

[fast dew]

Wait what? It shouldn't be taking that long surely

[loud oriole]

uhh if theres no audio then hes done “typing”

[fast dew]

Also here's hoping you don't get bugframe'd

[radiant pier]

oh ok

[fast dew]

Chances are you are gonna get bugged but

[radiant pier]

oh lmfao

[fast dew]

You'll be fine

[radiant pier]

so they've all talked to Loid

talking to Marie now

[fast dew]

Yeah, go to the sanctum rq

Once you're finished of course

[radiant pier]

okay I'm here

nothing's happening

is it cuz I was already here before I accessed the chat?

[fast dew]

Have you not noticed the giant ass red circle door thing near the entrance to the labs 😭

[radiant pier]

I mean yeah but I already touched it before, is that all? I thought there'd be like unique dialogue of it's acknowledgement

does that say 250 harrow chassis

[fast dew]

... its a door. You go inside to physically meet the triad

Including roach

[radiant pier]

yep already met them a few days ago

[loud oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/pacifrisk-warframe-harrow-chassis-meme-gif-9719355613318736986

[fast dew]

Wait. What?

[radiant pier]

yes

[loud oriole]

¿Que?

[radiant pier]

y-yeah- there was a fast travel option

[worn cypress]

hello , i am kind of a new player and begin recently interested in lore
can i skip sidequest and warframe quest'lore ?

[radiant pier]

you can, but a lot of them are quite fun

leave duviri for after you do the new war

[worn cypress]

i did duviri before 🙂 like a year ago but didnt understand it

[radiant pier]

oh

[worn cypress]

so i am kind off spoiled it to myself

[fast dew]

Yeah, only ones id suggest you do are. Deadlock protocol, The new strange and Octavia's Anthem. They just set you up for understanding the lore later on

[worn cypress]

i finished the war within yesterday

[radiant pier]

you haven't done the new war?

[worn cypress]

no

[radiant pier]

this is out of my jurisdiction I'm gonna go flirt with Lettie

[fast dew]

Ohhh, you haven't spoiled much, don't worry

[worn cypress]

some quests i did before without reading them i went and saw them on yt good idea ?

( i think my luck is good )
i started rewatching the lore literly at the biggining of second dream

[fast dew]

If you need to replay old quests, do it, its kinda fun

[fast dew]

Yeah thats when it really picks up, its where most folk start paying attention

[worn cypress]

so was i lucky ?

[loud oriole]

not me putting off silver grove for years

-# and i will not mention waverider

[worn cypress]

whats wrong about waverider 😂

[restive river]

As someone who put waverider off since its release date and finally played it recently the gameplay portion wasn’t that awful
They did fix it

[fast dew]

Luckier than me, I didn't really pay attention till one of the newer quests, whispers in the walls 😭

-# I wonder if folk could guess why

[restive river]

Shocker /j /lh

[fast dew]

Couldn't possibly figure out why

[loud oriole]

tbh its the only quest in my active so its one of those “make progress whenever” quest, i already farmed out Yareli Prime so its even further down in “priority”

[restive river]

There’s her helminth but that’s kinda it
The story is
a story :p

[fast dew]

Her quest was annoying but I liked the art

[restive river]

I didn’t really like any of it

[fast dew]

The fact you need a dojo for her though made me a little annoyed

[restive river]

You need a dojo for a few frames

But with her it’s just the one room iirc

[fast dew]

One specific room, exclusively for her. Dagath also suffers from that but kinda worse because I don't think they ever explain how to actually. get the stuff required to build her

[radiant pier]

cuz no loid?

how long ago was Dagath released

[fast dew]

Honestly I saw gays and locked in

[radiant pier]

fairs

[restive river]

You didn’t lock in for Unum and Gara

Or did you

[pale cedar]

2 years 5 months and 4 days

[fast dew]

Mm. Thats. The revenant quest isnt it? Or is it saya's vigil..

If its the revenant quest i think mine is a lil bugged rn

[radiant pier]

ooooo so her prime is due within a year?

[fast dew]

Around that time yeah

Mm, what primes are due this year?

[pale cedar]

I think Spartan frame is next

[radiant pier]

who? oh the one with the nipple tassels?

[loud oriole]

i think our initial one this year is Styanax yeah

-# cant wait to see what de cooked up for him

[restive river]

Why would Gara be in the Revenant quest 😭

[pale cedar]

Eternalism trust

[restive river]

Revenant is involved…

[pale cedar]

Actually
It's because I CE Gara there

[restive river]

If Styanax is next my friend is happy
If Voruna is next my partner is happy
Either way it’s gonna be great

[restive river]

🤯

[pale cedar]

Wonder who is happier about their frame being next

[fast dew]

She is mentioned i think😭

[strange turtle]

What if Rev is actually the Unum’s rebound after Gara

And that’s why we have Rev Prime

https://tenor.com/view/arknights-endfield-rfantazio-slothlo-chen-arknights-gif-7076343537173027322

[restive river]

My Partner, she’s got money ready for her lol

[restive river]

The Unum being pan is something I can totally see

[fast dew]

I got money ready for the loid floof

[pale cedar]

I got 2 guns ready for Albrecht's face

[restive river]

I got plat ready in general

[fast dew]

Is it bad of me to be sad we didn't get a Albrecht floof? I want them to be together as floofs, if any other way is physically impossible

[restive river]

I think we will get one tbh

[fast dew]

And can we get family floofs too i think that would be peak

[restive river]

I’ll but the loids over the triad pack

Omg i could put Loid with the Cavia

[fast dew]

The triad's pack on the market is kinda funny lookin

Tiny floofs with fire behind them

[restive river]

Wait what lol

[fast dew]

Yeah I got a screenshot of it

[pale cedar]

Should give me a Jade Floof because there's a Stalker and Ordis floof meaning my Jade Shadows sofa is missing the Jade of the Shadows

[fast dew]

The most dramatic ass floofs

[loud oriole]

it was definitely Floof roach’s idea

[pale cedar]

Why does Roathe look like playdough?

[fast dew]

HA

No don't insult Loid's craftsmanship

[restive river]

lol ok

[restive river]

He did it in purpose

[fast dew]

I choose to believe he did yes

[pale cedar]

He's Insulting Roathe

[restive river]

I don’t like looking at them

Why do these ones give cursed doll

Maybe it’s the lighting lol

[fast dew]

Here have the loids + otak

[restive river]

So he used metal for himself
But not roach

[fast dew]

HA

HE DID

[restive river]

That’s

[fast dew]

LMFAO

Its fitting for Loid

[radiant pier]

that's adorable it's only 85 plat?

[fast dew]

Silent rebellion if you will

[restive river]

I don’t think it’s on purpose but it’s very funny

[fast dew]

Mhm, you can buy them individually too

[pale cedar]

Cuz the triad are cursed with Roathe

[radiant pier]

do you have em?

[fast dew]

I do not

[radiant pier]

one sec

[fast dew]

I have. 2 arthur floofs

And the cavia, and ordis

And the qtcc floofs

[pale cedar]

If you didn't have Ordis I'd send Loid after you

Disrespecting a Butler to not have it

[fast dew]

I think id like for Loid to come over. Maybe I can complain about my housemate to him and he might understand lmao

[radiant pier]

wait

where's the loid and gang floof

[fast dew]

Drops on. Thursday?

[radiant pier]

oH

[radiant pier]

extend this to a few days

[fast dew]

Wait

[radiant pier]

what floofs do you have

[fast dew]

No what what no

Dont do that

[radiant pier]

fineeee

departing in 20 seconds OH NO

DAMMIT I JUST MISSED HIM

do you have an Ordis floof

[fast dew]

Mhm, I do

[burnt blade]

hey so i got a question about hollvania

which modern day country is it based out of?

[strange turtle]

Unknown for sure but potentially Germany, or a similar central/eastern european country

[burnt blade]

cuz im wanting to write a fanfic that takes places on the streets of hollvania from someones pov thats in between the hex and the scaldra fighting

[strange turtle]

But also to be clear Höllvania’s just a city-state

Like, you know Singapore and Vatican City? That kind of country

[burnt blade]

ik but wonder what modern day country would be the cloesest to it

ok so central europe

[strange turtle]

An invasion on it was attempted by the “Radiant Khan” (Mongols), so we can assume it’d be around the eastern ends of Poland, Austria etc, since those are the furthest areas they reached

The “höll” seems like it might derive from the german “hölle” (hell), and vania derives from “-sylvania”, which comes from silva, latin for forest/woods

So an area around that region, close enough to fit a VG writer going “yeah they’re kinda close to Germany”, and maybe a heavily wooded area in particular, assuming they thought that far

[sudden shard]

does the existance of drifter imply that theres a second operator that exists in this original universe whose in their in their late 20s-mid30s because they were kept in the zariman

[dark compass]

No, all other existences have been collapsed

It's only our OP and their Drifter variant

[tall echo]

how do you come to that conclusion

[ashen pulsar]

wonder what happened to the other realities we aren't in

probably died out

[dark compass]

Fragmented ones

[ashen pulsar]

oh yeah

[twin wigeon]

"... To cosmic forms, from tangent planes ..."

perhaps these tangentt planes are the realities we're not in

[fast dew]

We end as we began or whatever

Mm, I think my favourite requiem poem segments would be. Mm. Jahu or Fass

"Corporeal laws are unwrit, as suns and love retreat."

Absolute cinema Albrecht great awesome poetry

"Roiling, moaning this realm of ours in madness, lost shall die."

[mental herald]

Invasion : mutagen mass vs fieldron

[dire mountain]

No

[twin wigeon]

as a unforeseen consequence of the handshakes, we (or wally) kill all the other operators (i hypotesize they were the operators that were offered the deal and refused with variable unknown reasons leading up to the deal)

[restive river]

Why would that imply that, Drifter is the alt version of the Operator
Operator was saved

[restive river]

They either refused or just weren’t saved
We don’t really know

[twin wigeon]

but we do know is that they presumably died

[restive river]

I mean we saw them all die

It was likely Wally collapsing the possibilities, kinda like what he did with Baro but rather than all iterations becoming one he purged all other iterations but two

(Which he maybe also did with Baro)

[twin wigeon]

i think so too, he did i guess in a sense condense all realities to following a predetermined and chose path

for Baro he condensed all the realities in which his wares were different across devices by eliminating them, making Baro share his wares across all devices simutaneously

i love how wally tolerates baro btw

baro's just looting the void and whatnot and wally pulls up, AS HIM, and makes a deal

for supposedly nothing

[strange plinth]

and then there's whatever eskhatos baro is

[twin wigeon]

Eskhatos Baro (Scaro) is what i think to be Wally playing a joke by posing as a friendly Void trader while real baro is fixing his ship

[restive river]

I think he’s akin to Drifter
Wally said he’d fuse all Baros into one, never said which one

[restive river]

E Baro doesn’t seem to actually be Wally but has experienced and knows about him

[twin wigeon]

Scaro TwT

[restive river]

Scaro’s also good lol

[strange plinth]

the baros parallel op/drift in a way, yea
have to wonder about the specific wording that would allow another
as baro presents it, there shouldn't be one left to be scaro

[restive river]

I’d assume the exact wording was something similar enough to our situation

He said he’d put all the Baros into one Baro, never said which Baro that’d actually be

Since Scaro would only exist due to the deal he also wouldn’t be breaking the deal, technically, maybe?

[strange plinth]

mm, i see
merging the other baros into one, rather than merging them into the dealmaking baro

or leaving one behind in some similar manner

[restive river]

Ye

I’m unsure if we’ll ever get an answer but if we do
It’s next Halloween

[jolly root]

When i visted scaro he spoke like backwards

[twin wigeon]

he was reciting the requium poem backwards

[strange plinth]

that would've been week 3 i think?
but yea, requiems backwards

[jolly root]

Oh it was freaking creepy

[restive river]

What Wally does to a man

[twin wigeon]

https://tenor.com/view/the-man-in-wall-warframe-gif-24269482

[wooden cave]

what do u all think leon would say as a quip or a joke about the hex if he fought them

[twin wigeon]

wow a speedy guy that uses electricity, how shocking

a british guy that likes to stab people, how fitting

im not good at this am i

[smoky gulch]

At least you took a funny jab at the British

[fast dew]

Genuinely i cannot narrow this down, who? 😭

[twin wigeon]

...

you're not wrong actually

Arthur?

[fast dew]

OH

[twin wigeon]

the one guy that stabs us in the hand

tbf

we get stabbed

alot

[fast dew]

See i was thinking of mother, she's kinda British sounding, as in you used guy in the gender neutral way 😭 ballas... is. Also British sounding i think

[radiant pier]

we also get stabbed

[wooden cave]

NOT what I expected to see as an option upon opening arthur's kim messenger

[radiant pier]

a lot