lore-discussion

[restive river]

Jade, Stalker, Dagath, Umbra, Yareli
Gara was a volunteer

[mental herald]

Umbra

[slender needle]

was it to punish them for rebellion?

[mental herald]

I wish we had umbra walking around in our oribter like a cosmetic we could turn on and off

[restive river]

Jade and Stalker were punished for having a baby
Dagath was framed cause her toxic polycule wanted to keep her going
Ballas specifically framed Yareli (he wanted her as a Yuvan)
Umbra’s story is in the Sacrifice

[mental herald]

Or just sitting at a place like wallman

[restive river]

I don’t recall if any specifically got framed for that but Jade was not a fan of the Orokin

Iirc Kullervo was thrown into the void and I wanna say his actions may have had a hand in the tenno rebellion to some extent?
If I’m wrong please correct me lol

[woven coyote]

Was gonna say dagath wasnt framed she was colateral damage. But i think you meant turned into a frame right?

[restive river]

While it wasn’t because they rebelled Ballas shelved Temple out of fear of rebellion

[strange turtle]

They did

[restive river]

Yeah I mean turning into a frame

She was basically punished for loving her horse

[strange turtle]

One of his Crimes was about talking treasonous thoughts to them or something

[mental herald]

Kullervo is my favourite warframe aesthetically I can't wait for his prime to finally try him out. Although iam kinda tempted to spend 325 of my 389 plat to buy him right away

[ocean geyser]

They’re succeptible to hacking in the New War

A couple moas get sent after Veso

[slender needle]

oh guys do u yall wanna see my water concept

as bad as it is lol

[restive river]

It’d be funny if the Corpus robots weren’t high tech enough til the New War for Sentient hacking lol

[strange turtle]

(Crime: Espionage) "You saw the new generation of your kind, and the Tenno whose deviltry blent with theirs; and you began to whisper corruption into their ears, weave dark thoughts through the coils of their minds. Incepting, as is your wont, chaos, and disaster. You are charged with Espionage."

(Crime: Treason) "The Night of the Naga Drums. Your incepted chaos… bloomed… and the beautiful gilded Empire… fell. Were you entirely responsible? Of course not. You are, after all, a fool. But one need not be entirely responsible for the murder of an empire to be punished for their role in it. And punished you shall be. For a second count of Treason."

[slender needle]

also why does the helminth call us devils

[mental herald]

Kullervo whispering into a child's ears sounds creepy

[slender needle]

is it because how chaotic we are?

[restive river]

Omg is this where we get the distinction for the generations-

[ocean geyser]

The infestation just says that to us

[restive river]

It’s likely cause we’re constantly carrying a piece of Wally within us at all times

[ocean geyser]

Cause we can’t be infected and all

[restive river]

Infestation no like voidy things

[slender needle]

and we said rap tap tap fr

[ocean geyser]

Infestation thinks the void is stinky

[restive river]

It can’t share it’s gift

[slender needle]

it might be

void doesn't take showers

[restive river]

So it’s sad and lashes out (totally)

[slender needle]

stinky void

[restive river]

Wally sure doesn’t

The void itself is more akin to like
A tornado

Tornadoes don’t shower

[slender needle]

so what causes a tenno to be fused with fallen frames

or what could I say fused her

[restive river]

Remember the anomalous radiation I mentioned earlier?

[ocean geyser]

I think you were here for the radiation being brought up

[slender needle]

yes, and what was the exact cause of/for it?

[restive river]

We don’t know

[mental herald]

Everytime the helmith says something all I hear is Bomboclat

[restive river]

All we know about it is that it existed and it can seal a Tenno in their frame forever

[restive river]

And that it’s on Tau

If you want the tenno to be stuck with their frame that’s likely the best way to go about it since they can’t be infested and it sounds like you want it to be a punishment

[slender needle]

She would be cast out by the orokin rather then the tenno. Along the lines of their peace treaty and refusing to fight. Only protecting. Which may have been conflicting during the rebellion on the perita moon.

Which caused her to be fused with fallen Warframes when she was outcasted by the Orokin.
She was fused using Anomalous Radiation, causing her to be fused with the Warframes she swore to protect, causing them to be together once more again.

Was trying to make it poetic -ish

Forced to be with the thing you failed to protect

[sinful quail]

a lot of lore tbh. a lot of frames don't even have that

[slender needle]

well I want it to be thought out

[sinful quail]

i like it tbh

[slender needle]

I used to write books and stuff so

why thank you

I'm trying my best lol

but I still want to refine it

[sinful quail]

refine in what way?

[slender needle]

refine the wording

make it more plausible and add any extra details

and then I have to touch up her abilities and I'll be done

do y'all have any ideas for frames?

[sudden notch]

I'll Make a tier list based on which Warframes can beat cheapstake hwa

Cheapskate hua*

[slender needle]

what lol

[sudden notch]

What would the frames do when going against this homeless man

Anyways, I just made some bullshit

[slender needle]

they'd lose, his power is too great

[sudden notch]

Actually true somewhat, he can increase the weight of his body parts and clothes and make certain body parts invincible and control enemy projectiles

I remembered Warframe when I saw him fight

Basically a homeless man fighting a hair dresser, that reminds me of Warframe

[slender needle]

scissor seven is fire

[sudden notch]

I know

[slender needle]

my gf cries at the cat in shorts

[ocean geyser]

I wonder just how much of the Techrot is composed of flesh
Cause compared to the infestation of the future, it has more of a dependency on Technology to grow, no?

[tall echo]

not much more

modern infestation still relies heavily on inorganic matter

[ocean geyser]

oh fr?

it looks so fleshy though

[fast dew]

Why do you think we feed helminth so much?

[ocean geyser]

hungry

[tall echo]

I should rename my helminth to henry

it's always feeling quite hungry

[viscid aspen]

If the Sentients lost their sentience thanks to the death of the xenoflora, how come Hunhow, Natah, and Erra have individuality?

[tall echo]

only fragments lost their individuality

generally anything with -lyst is a fragment

[strange plinth]

i wonder if mimics have a proper -lyst name or if they're just mimics

[tall echo]

hmm

unfortunate that we can't come up with a name

there's not really a naming pattern

[fast dew]

Teto.. tetolyst....

https://tenor.com/view/teto-kasane-teto-gif-18004881838616477608

[tall echo]

NO

[fast dew]

OKAY BUT LIKE

Imagine a sentient teto cosplay

[viscid aspen]

Wait was Adis once a fragment then?

[fast dew]

Mhm. Probably

[tall echo]

yes

[viscid aspen]

New War isnt enough we gotta kill ballas again

[fast dew]

Play the sacrifice, we got to ruin his self image there

[viscid aspen]

Mikulyst

[ocean geyser]

i do really like the naming conventions of Sentients though

[fast dew]

I really need to draw it actually it would be so sick

[viscid aspen]

Same

[viscid aspen]

Yesss

[ocean geyser]

Lyst suffics refers to a ground unit
while ix or just x refers to some sort of structure

like a ship or
whatever Condrixes and Orphixes are

[fast dew]

Orphix......

I wish I played tbat event tbh

[strange plinth]

he's very similar to the dactolyst we see under the world-seeder

[humble sierra]

From everything I've heard... no you don't

[humble sierra]

Maybe Amalyst or something if Amar is the one who mastered Mimicry

Obviously that's not a naming convention or anything

[buoyant bridge]

Simulyst? Mimelyst?

[fast dew]

Awh but I would've gotten to have father as a father figure

[restive river]

Not worth it

[fast dew]

:[

[midnight ice]

since we have -lyst and -ix, "murex" implies "-ex" is a larger mothership so "say gex" is a valid sentient mothership

[fast dew]

Hehe. Heheheh. The lotus talking about important motherships to the operator and drifter and she says that 💔

[rare scarab]

huh didn’t know the heart of deimos is like a wifi router that pumps void magic into all the orokin tech throughout the system

[strange plinth]

yea basically

[raw knoll]

From adis wiki page:
"It is heavily implied that Adis' soul indeed lives within the Operator literally, allowing them to revive themselves in battle"

Does that mean that before adis "fused" with the operator, a Warframe dying was a Warframe lost? And the tenno inside died with it?

[fast dew]

Oh god not the wiki

[raw knoll]

The official one I might add

[strange plinth]

still community-contributed

[fast dew]

Its still conjecture and shouldn't be taken as fact

[lean garden]

someone should go and delete that damn line

[rare scarab]

i forgot, was the sol part of their religion why they didn’t do any dyson swarms around the sun b4 the void ?

[lean garden]

I hate it, its logically inconsistent

[strange plinth]

no point, they got to the void before they got very far off of earth/lua i believe

but dualism was abandoned in favor of the "vain faith" (treating the orokin as gods)

[raw knoll]

Still, there's still something I don't quite understand based on what I observed during the old war quest. Right at the very start of the quest, we see a battlefield strewn with dead prime warframes.

So, Warframes can die after all?

[lean garden]

I mean they made it to deimos before the void didnt they?

[lean garden]

yea? warframes arent immortal

[glacial bough]

They always could

[rare scarab]

who was the first man on the moon in warframe verse lol

[glacial bough]

The only thing immortal is (possibly) the Operator

[rare scarab]

or luna *

[raw knoll]

But the lotus can "overcharge our system" (or something like that) and revive a Warframe?

[strange plinth]

Hidden Messages describes a Mirage that gets blown up by sentients iirc

[glacial bough]

Yes, frames come with a built in revive system, as represented by the revive option in game

And only has so many charges

[lean garden]

and? You can resuscitate your neighbour who's heart stopped beating but at some point they just stay dead

[fast dew]

True

Fact checked by a true Australian magpie

[strange plinth]

probably the same people around the same time
i think one of Aoi's KIM chats makes a very quick reference to it

[fast dew]

If only we could see if 9/11 happened smh. That way I could say my chemical romance probably existed in warframe at one point

[raw knoll]

We don't lose our Warframes even after running out of revives. Although, it may be a concession to gameplay, I guess.

[lean garden]

gameplay

there are warframes who get decapitated, who get vaporised

warframes are in no way immortal

[strange plinth]

only time we lose a warframe is if it gets yoinked by zanuka

[fast dew]

What that can happen

[lean garden]

yea its a really old secret mission

[fast dew]

HUH.

Thats so scary what

[strange plinth]

afaik it pulls you out of whatever mission you were in and puts you in a secret gamemode, getting your equipment back n leaving

[fast dew]

Shit thats so cool

[strange plinth]

yeah its a shame zanuka explodes before alad v even announces its there

[fast dew]

I do have a zenuka glyph, from memory

[rare scarab]

now was there any ideas of a dyson sphere in warframe like irl b4 void*

[lean garden]

separately:

The wiki page fails to consider that warframes have their own revive systems, so the operator being able to hold x to revive in that scene cannot logically apply to every warframe out there.

whoever wrote that was being extremely myopic and running on r/warframe levels of hype and thinking

[fast dew]

Unlikely, though hunhow's partner was made to eat the sun

[raw knoll]

Agreed, that seemed strange. And kind of a strange addition. We had a sentient passenger (sorta) who never spoke to us the whole time? Where is DE going with this?

[lean garden]

More like whoever wrote the wiki is just complicating things by making shit up

[fast dew]

Shout out to

One of the wikis and having that weird thing where they didnt wanna put Albrecht and Loid as lovers

Probably was fandom tbh but you never know

[lean garden]

adis's "light" is now in us. Who said that was a soul? Do synthetic lifeforms have souls now?

[lean garden]

I mean, the crew is the same is it not

[lean garden]

furthermore: they dont (and cant) elaborate what that means, so its not like we can claim Adis is a full persona riding silently the whole time

[fast dew]

Yeah true

I never edited fandom wiki I mucking hate that site

I need to edit the doom wiki because it says Samuel hayden is from new York when everything points to Europe

But i genuinely hate the site

[coral mirage]

So since we are in spoiler territory, once we save The Hex, are we still in a loop? I mean, were allowing civilians inside now, so i would have thought the time stream would keep going

Also, Kaya and the TEmple seemed to have come out of nowhere... did i miss a cut scene or trailer?

[lean garden]

its like (KPOP demon hunters spoilers) ||Jinu giving up his life for rumi|| or in the cosmere where you can give up your "breath" (akin to soul) to another person

[lean garden]

still in the loop

[lean garden]

DE had a trailer for them which to this day we wish they'd added to be viewable in the game

[fast dew]

Yk about that film, the evil fella, Gwi-ma or whatever reminds me a bit of hunhow

[coral mirage]

but we saved them, why is the loop still on? I mean... we caused it to protect them, must have missed that

[coral mirage]

brb,, gonna look at YT

[lean garden]

we aint caused shit

the loop was looping before we got onto the scene

[coral mirage]

we literally saved their bacon with the power of FRIENDSHIP

but i digress

[lean garden]

sure, loop wussant made by us

[coral mirage]

So now I gotta now how the Cavia end up, still not liking Fibonacci at all.
Thats gonna be a few days of grinding / trading for standing.
(also, I want one of those cats)

[lean garden]

which cats?

[coral mirage]

I guess the cat version of the kubrows, at this point Im just collecting a few things and get the most of the game

[lean garden]

like kavats in general or kalymos

[lean garden]

oh kavats in general

[coral mirage]

well we can pet Kalymos now that you meantion it

so i guess we have a cat

[lean garden]

technically, you can get a kavat

and then buy the kalymos skin

now you have two kalymos

[fast dew]

Which i have and its peak

[coral mirage]

well thats going on the To DO List

now i gotta ask

can we get a bird

[fast dew]

Cept it doesnt give the right colour for eye eyes i feel

[coral mirage]

also, is there anything worth while when fully dating? Ya know, holding hands, kissing, etc?
Or just cyber luv dialogue?

[lean garden]

sadly no bird companion

[coral mirage]

I can live with it (for now)

[lean garden]

with the original 6 hex theres a new year kiss scene every new year (aka 4 weeks)

[fast dew]

Bird 3 at your service !!!!!!

[lean garden]

with the triad theres a date

[fast dew]

:>

[coral mirage]

aw thats cute

[coral mirage]

went from slightly annoying to the most level headed of the bunch, Loid included, but then again having to save the lives of 3 beings while still dealing with Al, The Murmur and his own baggage is well understood

[ocean geyser]

wonder why corpus helmets have them long ass chin things

[unborn cosmos]

guys why is a replica of my operator in my ship with Lotus's helmet

[ocean geyser]

you should interact with it

[fast dew]

Ehhehe

Oh, thats. Gonna he a fun ride.

[unborn cosmos]

it's saying weird things like "hey kiddo"

the weird thing is once I switched to operator to confront it it's just the red helmet

also WHY IS SHE SMILING AT IT

[coral mirage]

Lore Incoming

[autumn roost]

man in the wall is cool ok

[fast dew]

Shh dont spoil it for them

[autumn roost]

delete this rn.

they mention his name 2 seconds within meeting him.

[fast dew]

Nono, no they don't. Not yet

You dont know what information thus person has

[autumn roost]

the weirdo squatting with that lotus helmet.

[fast dew]

They could've read the requiem logs and could make tbat connection.

[autumn roost]

they want a hug.

[fast dew]

They clearly dont know

[autumn roost]

people use requiem logs?

[fast dew]

I love the requiem logs

Albrecht the beloathed

[autumn roost]

💔

[fast dew]

I like his character id just hate him irl

Throwing tomatoes at him

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/952946035733438575/1461285583681753251/explode-1768467993232.gif

Orbital strike

[old wharf]

How do I recrate the Jade Light in real life?

[fast dew]

Well, I dont know

[old wharf]

Or glass someone

[strange plinth]

we don't know the process for either and its a little concerning to want to recreate either

[topaz pawn]

something like Pantheon I guess

they did something similar

[old wharf]

How do I recrate the Orokin system.

[pale cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-the-neat-part-you-dont-invincible-gif-27194608

[old wharf]

Or at the very least, make a helminth

[topaz pawn]

quite a few nuclear wars

[strange plinth]

18, at least

[pale cedar]

Just wait a few thousand years too

Gotta let tech advance

[old wharf]

AND THEN we can recrate Ballas.

[strange plinth]

ten thousand or whatever albrecht said in the hex comic

[pale cedar]

Yeah

It's less than that now because 1999 has already happened

10k- like 25 years

[restive river]

Big microwave

[strange turtle]

There’s a bird decoration you can get from Cetus

A condroc in a cage

[unborn cosmos]

operator, meet operator

[unborn cosmos]

just documented all sightings of ms. replica (in chimera)

(ignore the last one, I forgot she was there)

[fast dew]

Oh. This is delightful

Baby tenno with legit no knowledge of anything story wise

[unborn cosmos]

I know it's the man in the wall

[fast dew]

Yeah but you dont know why he's important, do you?

[midnight ice]

not the cryptid sighting 😭 type of images youd find in a memory card in a camera abandoned in the woods

[unborn cosmos]

this one is the funniest to me

it looks like ms. replica is going "OH MY BACK AAH"

[dire mountain]

Yeah that happens when ||you're an ageless entity||

[midnight ice]

copies the image of a human
human has back pain
ohno.png

[fast dew]

||Albrecht has back pain and wally inherited it||

[dire mountain]

Well. Yeah ||buddy carried the empire's progress on his back after the Incident||

[unborn cosmos]

*her

[fast dew]

||I was gonna make a joke about Albrecht's man boobs but that works||

[dire mountain]

No

[fast dew]

We're not talking about wally
-# wally is also explicitly a man, im sorry 😭

[unborn cosmos]

I have made my operator a she

it's got body type 2 and voice falcon

[dire mountain]

We are talking about someone else

[unborn cosmos]

oh

[strange plinth]

your operator, yes
wally takes the form, not the identity

[fast dew]

A mister A. Entrati.

[unborn cosmos]

oh ok

[dire mountain]

||Never meet your heroes||

[fast dew]

||yeah its a bad idea, one might stab the British man||

[pale cedar]

The British man is more likely to stab you not gonna lie

[topaz pawn]

and regardless someone taking the form of another person doesn't equate them taking on their gender too

oh that's been said already

rap tap tap or whatever

[fast dew]

This could be why Euleria stabbed Petros

[pale cedar]

She knows the methods

[fast dew]

She was half raised by Loid, clearly

[pale cedar]

Now we just need to see Loid stabbing Wally

[unborn cosmos]

you mean... Deimos Loid?

[fast dew]

Oh shit

[pale cedar]

Yes

[fast dew]

Yeah

[pale cedar]

Nothing says he was born in Deimos

[fast dew]

Yeah he was probably some other place. Maybe Lua or something

[pale cedar]

Bros definitely from the same place as Arthur

[unborn cosmos]

I mean the Loid you meet at Deimos

[fast dew]

Yeah

Don't worry about it

[pale cedar]

There's a Loid not on Deimos?

[fast dew]

Nemesis don't you dare.

[strange turtle]

Nem they’re confused because they only know ||the drone/cephalon one||

[unborn cosmos]

my question is: is the Loid you're talking about the one on Deimos?

[fast dew]

THEY DONT KNOW

[strange turtle]

Yes and no
It’s spoilers for a quest much later on

[topaz pawn]

don't say anything

[fast dew]

Oh, okay. So the loid you meet is a cephalon. Like ordis, so you know what a cephalon is?

[violet storm]

You’ll find out. Sooner or later

[brittle siren]

One of the most chilling quotes in this game my god

[stray herald]

I do feel bad for the hex, especially arthur when we do a morty do over

Luckily i never did smth like that

Ngl drifter resetting bc he made the wrong dating move is so wally coded

[midnight ice]

How very Orokin of you!

[sacred stump]

Any Romanian dude who can help me with the game?

[waxen mesa]

new war gives an interesting perspective on grineer vs corpus

Vay Hek remembers the name of a clone and respects Kahl

Alad V can't remember Veso's name and treats him as a throw away pawn

kind of the opposite of what you'd expect

[ashen pulsar]

not quite opposite

I would expect alad to ignore random engineers, that’s on point for corpus

[waxen mesa]

I guess I meant more. Opposite if you have a surface level knowledge of them

[ashen pulsar]

perhaps grineer are closer because they all suffer from clone rot and aren’t particularly smart?

so they value glory in battle rather than profit or survival?

[waxen gyro]

I definitely think their is a sense of comradery among them.

[quick wadi]

Something something since they're all vat grown I think there's a sibling connection there, possibly somewhat literally.

So sure there's tiers of importance but they do seem to have a more personal comradery between them all.

[vast willow]

Do we have any info on the Void or is it just a big space full of energy and sci-fi magic and monsters

[fast dew]

What do you need, specifically?

[vast willow]

Just asking if there's anything deeper than that to the Void.

Because Wally just... exists.

[fast dew]

Well, how far are you in the story?

[vast willow]

Been a while since I played Warframe but I finished every quest before Old Peace.

[fast dew]

Do you have access to the requiem logs?

Good good, listen to those. You'll hear some of the story behind wally and the void

[vast willow]

Huh

[fast dew]

Mm, do you know of the fingers?

[vast willow]

Like Wally's 4 fingers

Yes, Albrecht closed the Void portal on one

Or something...

[fast dew]

Requiem logs, the big drawings when you go into deimos and to the labs

It was technically Mother who closed it on wally but yk

[vast willow]

Ah yes

Like, the ones that are related to Kuva mods or smth? (I haven't played WF is so long, I don't remember)

[fast dew]

Mhm! Those tell the story of Albrecht Entrati's first exhibition into the void. You can learn a lil thete

But anyways, so. The void. The theory goes that it was literally just a void before Albrecht stepped into it

Albrecht seemed to have conceptually embodied Wally, which is something that happens when you're in the void and feel real strong emotions

This is how Duviri was made

[vast willow]

Nevermind, I was about to ask about that.

Since Duviri is made of weird Drifter imagination memories and stuff does that mean Albrecht filled the void with weird energy if that's the case?

[fast dew]

Which is based on a book that was written with the express purpose to AVOID conceptual embodiment

[vast willow]

I thought it was just some children's story written by one of the Entrati that teach them about feelings.

[fast dew]

Yeah! You know mother?

[vast willow]

Yeah.

[fast dew]

That's her book.

[vast willow]

Huh.

I haven't unlocked her name yet so I guess that's why I don't know.

[fast dew]

Yup. Her original name was Euleria Entrati

Oh, no its a different name there

[vast willow]

...so she changed names?

[fast dew]

She forgot her name

The infestation wormed her brain

[vast willow]

Oh.

I used to think it was weird how the Family just merged with the Infestation and had no ill side effects except for being weird flower-things.

[fast dew]

She's stuck looking for her father [Albrecht], she thinks he's in the void atp.

This gets worse considering Albrecht or someone gave them tablets saying he was gonna go die

[strange turtle]

…it’s the families whole story that they lost memories because of the Infestation

Did you just, take a big break after Deimos or not do the rankups or something

[vast willow]

I took a big break from Warframe as a whole

I haven't played in more than half a year idk

[fast dew]

But yeah, Duviri is a book mother/Euleria wrote based on the characters Albrecht made for her bedtime stories when she was little

[strange turtle]

Also Thrax specifically was CE’d from a Dax child doll that the Drifter owned, for whatever reason

Like to be clear, it doesn’t mean anything special, Thrax is just another character in Duviri, but out of all of them he specifically is related to an actual/normal object for whatever reason

[vast willow]

I always thought the Duviri Paradox quest was a retelling of the Tales of Duviri and that Thrax actually had that doll, and the doll that Drifter had was some kind of merchandise

Maybe it's hand-made

My brain is weird

[strange turtle]

The Zariman seems to have just had a foundry and designer dedicated to kids toys and duviri merch

Like the Duviri Kaithes don’t look the same as there depictions elsewhere, so those stickers and stuff had to be custom made

[vast willow]

Ah

Also I remember I found a Zariman-style learning pad somewhere in the caves and it was about walls of flesh or something, was it just malfunctioning or does it refer to anything?

[strange turtle]

You mean the wall of bone?

30. What is 'the Wall'?

A. The barrier between rational reality and the Void

B. The Wall of Bone in whiKU NOMA ELU RA KAH, MARA LOHK? (correct)

[vast willow]

Yeah that's it

[strange turtle]

Yeah the malfunctions aren’t actually malfunctions, it’s just that Wally’s messed with some of them

We know the Wall of Bone is a thing, but not what it is, really

It’s got a mention by Vor and that’s pretty much it

"What a waste! Your scarred vessel comes to beg once more! You will never pry the Janus Key from the clutches of its rightful owner – I, Captain Vor, have ascended and the Void salutes me! You will die a lifetime, an eternity, a universe of deaths before you are blessed by the endlessness of this place, this paradise. I will never close an eye to the gift that is the Void. Even as my flesh hardens, a wall of bone awaits my joining."

[desert oak]

I can't until we get another shadow-dropped Voidtongue translation key. We've got so many new words now.

[vast willow]

Hmm

Man in the Wall

Wall of Bone

What if Vor is awaiting to become as powerful as Wally by, I dunno, joining with the "Bone Wall" which Wally presumably did?

Nvm I did some research and the Wall of Bone/Lohk/Whatever is just the barrier between the world and the void

[strange turtle]

Nah

Wall of Bone and Lohk don’t seem to be the same thing

[vast willow]

Eh

[strange turtle]

Since they’re separate answers on the tablet

[violet storm]

The hell is lohk exactly

[vast willow]

Well I mean the second answer did reference the Wall of Lohk

[strange turtle]

No

[vast willow]

Fancy fantasy name

[strange turtle]

It referenced the wall of bone. Lohk just means void

[violet storm]

I’m aware, but I’m the context of say something like The Strands of Khra

[vast willow]

Oh.

So "whiKU NOMA ELU RA KAH, MARA LOHK? " could just say something about the void but not the Wall of Lohk

[strange turtle]

Mara Lohk is us

Drifter/Operator

[vast willow]

...what is this language

And how do you translate it

[strange turtle]

Lohk meaning Void, Mara’s exact meaning being unknown but known to refer to us, as well as being the Operator’s (and maybe Drifter?) name oj the script

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-the-neat-part-you-dont-invincible-gif-27194608

Sometimes DE just gives us the meaning of a few words through various ways

There’s old words that we still don’t know, while some new ones were part of a song and had their translations in the online lyrics

[violet storm]

Voidtongue

[vast willow]

So to sum up the Void was actually a chill place full of nothingness until Albrecht went in and filled it with his weird emotions and created an eldritch child-stalker 4th-dimensional version of him

[violet storm]

The language of the Requiems

[vast willow]

Isn't it just the language of... wally?

Nobody else speaks it.

[violet storm]

Gruzzlings speak it

[vast willow]

Never even knew the Murmur could speak.

Now that I think about it speaking is in their name

[fast dew]

Its not just murmur using it

Albrecht also uses it, hes translated it for us, mainly

Thetes also the band camp translations of whisper's soundtrack

-# Yara Jeliira my love

[violet storm]

His wall things near the Necraloid in the Necralisk

[fast dew]

Requiem logs

[vast willow]

I thought Voidtongue people go crazy or something and the Tenno are immune

That could just be my memory being replaced by hallucinations though

[fast dew]

Oh no, wally makes people go insane

Thats true, he does do that

But its not voidtongue that does that

[violet storm]

He drove every adult that had a child on the Zariman Nuts

[fast dew]

So their children would murder them!

[strange turtle]

Kinda.

It was believed to be a dimension of nothing (in duality with our dimension, a dimension full of somethings), but after Albrecht’s expedition it was discovered to have links to the consciousness/soul and lifeforce, the former of which had been interacted with via Kuva (which was discovered to have the properties to do so because of the Void, meaning there was already something going on)

And there had to have been something, presumably just Void energy, because it reacted to Albrecht and created Wally

[violet storm]

And every other adult because there’s basically no reason with a bunch of scared kids

[strange turtle]

Or, did something with him anyway, but the most common theory is that in some way he was created or shaped by The Incident

[violet storm]

But the holdfasts survived

[fast dew]

Only by CE lmao

[fast dew]

Most common and supported theory

Even if its supported by Roathe, for whatever reason

-# he only supports it because he read the operator report and came to the same conclusion

[vast willow]

Isn't Kuva just weird Void-infused Orokin blood made for transferring consciousness between organisms like during Continuity

[vast willow]

I thought they just drove insane because the ship got stranded and the parents went crazy because they're deprived from other human contact

And that Voidtongue was just some other thing that also made people mad

[strange turtle]

Not void infused, just has void-derived properties, which is what allows it to transfer consciousness (the process is called Continuity, not just the ceremony)

And it’s not made, but somehow harvested and then processed, presumably to make it into a safe state for consumption since we know that it can also be used for dissolving bodies from post-Old Peace stuff

Anyway. Thing is, they were getting and using Kuva before Albrecht’s expedition, meaning that the Void had to have had stuff going on before he arrived

[waxen mesa]

How can void tongue exist?

Does the void have a natural language or did someone CE it

[midnight ice]

(its only called the Old Blood by the grineer because, well, it looks like blood)

[topaz pawn]

possibly? depends on if you believe Wally existed before Albrecht went into the void

Albrecht goes into the void and Wally is either created or is formed from whatever was in the void before being observed, and part of creating an intelligence is a language it speaks, or the language already existed, implying several beings in the void, and a reason for them to communicate

or alternatively the words are just an innate part of the void. a language that had no one to speak it until one was created

which is a cool concept

but at the end of the day, you don't speak a language unless you're trying to communicate something

[strong viper]

cue loud opera singing

[restive river]

It depends on it’s origin, it sounds like it’s from Wally so he just made up words and cause CE they have power

Wally and us are the only entities that even use it, no other Void entities use it and since some part of him wants to be more like us then his own language is a logical step

[sly swan]

i just rewatched the chains of harrow. after that quest did wally go unmentioned until the new war quest?

[coral mirage]

The void is reactive, so the language is cause and effect.
Now whatever that giant Wall thing was is another story.

[midnight ice]

iirc after chains of harrow thr only mention of wally thereafter is just the jumpscares

[coral mirage]

Ugk, Im playing catch up to the 10 years or so of Warframe. But from what I experience, Rell was the first to mention Man in the Wall. Then it becomes The Indifference, and then we see its giant ass FMA looking wall thing

[midnight ice]

up to tnw

[strange plinth]

wally first shows up at the very end of war within, has a prominent role in chains, guaranteed appearance after the sacrifice, then i think he disappears until TNW yes

not including rng scares of him popping up in the orbiter

[sly swan]

i think those only happen if you do chains of harrow before them.

[coral mirage]

And now im wondering if that is basically a "finger" of The Indifference

as in, we see ourselves and then Albretch's Void Figures

they are literally speaking poetry to each other

[strange plinth]

oh yeah he shows up during/after Rising Tide if you've done chains before it, sitting on the reliquary drive

[coral mirage]

I wonder if The Indifference is just "role playing" multiple characters, or if these are actually sentient in any capacity

[sly swan]

oh yeah, i did rising tide after coming back a month or two and after interacting with the drive i saw the finger silhouette and him sitting on top and confused my brain

[sly swan]

if i remember correctly, the void makes things or responds to the mind and/or emotions. the man in wall uses that to appear as certain figures to certain people. at least thats i think from what i know

[lean garden]

role play, you get to see this first hand in The Hex

[coral mirage]

And it also creates self perpetuating elements, like Duviri

The Indifference had no hand in Duviri, its just THERE because we made it

So, even if he is roleplaying, how do we know the characters didnt become the actors, know what I mean?

[coral mirage]

See above

[lean garden]

no I don't know what you mean

I dont see what link youre trying to make with Wally having no hand in Duviri, and its roleplay as multiple characters

[coral mirage]

As in, Duviri stands as its own independent existence. It was derived from the Void, by the Drifter. But it exists on its own.
So I am asking, if The Indifference creates Not Us and Not Al, what is to say they are now not independent themselves? Thats why I asked if it was roleplaying or not.

[restive river]

I wouldn’t call Duviri independent, it’s both derived, is in and kinda needs to pull from the void
It’s kinda just a pocket or bubble in the void

[lean garden]

Then I refer you again to The Hex

where Wally in real time changes roles just to screw with albrecht

[coral mirage]

Oh sure, but even the known Universe pulls from certain forces, Duviri is no different. But it is fairly its own thing

[coral mirage]

Oh thats true, I guess its just one for the Theatrics

[restive river]

It is its own thing in the void, which is how it does anything that it does

Duviri is the same as any conceptually embodied anything, rules (or lack there of) are based off concepts in one’s mind

[fast dew]

I think it was moreso that random time in whispers where wally is both us and Albrecht at the same time [like two different people] at the end

[lean garden]

I mean wally is also the vagabond and all the children in the duviri classroom

but they all fundamentally act the same as wally

[fast dew]

Wait whats happening what

I just thought it was how can wally be multiple people at once

[lean garden]

yea thats it

marcel is just asking if its wally roleplaying as multiple folks or if these were independent clones

[fast dew]

I really need to figure a way to explain what I mean by wally being multiple people

Because saying he can be multiple people at once isnt saying what i want to say

[drowsy saddle]

He's a infinite trinity

[lean garden]

Pain from Naruto

[drowsy saddle]

And yes its impossible to explain without being declared a heretic

[fast dew]

Like

[fast dew]

Mm. I could.

Looking at wally being on the chair and beside the chair

[midnight ice]

tries to explain wally
makes another schism in wallyism

[fast dew]

I do hope that if we kill wally, without killing Albrecht, he gets. A little mentally better

[peak vigil]

Assuming he doesn’t die from Lettie, roathe and tagfer

[restive lantern]

I hope someone gets him lol

[glass sluice]

Wally's just chilling, how could you hate.

[dense mist]

Man. Been playing the 1999 quest and i hope albrecht dies ugh hes such a dumb edgelord

[glass sluice]

that would make loid sad, and id rather slow-roast bird 3 than make loid sad.

[restive lantern]

Loid ✅
His man ❌

[dense mist]

Loid can do better hed get over it

[glass sluice]

Hey, you don't always pick who ya love.

[strange plinth]

during The Hex, he's kinda doing it on purpose

[dense mist]

And lowkey imo that is just as bad or even worse

[strange plinth]

its what comes after that's more.. genuine

[dense mist]

Like if you are intentionally doing terrible stuff that's worse than unintentionally doing terrible stuff

Idk...i like to watch lore videos and stuff so i saw all his notes and everything before i started the quest and ngl i still hate him

[strange plinth]

he does what he does to stop wally
that's his 'at all costs'

[coral mirage]

Im just saying, we were robbed of shooting a villain into the sun.

Al or Wally are good substitutes

[glass sluice]

"gave a kid time travel powers"
"why"
"to stop a problem that i causes"
"but why"
"im in love with my butler"
Something tells me Alby isn't always the smartest man around.

[dense mist]

Lol yeah

[fast dew]

What

[strange plinth]

what

[fast dew]

No he. Didnt give the drifter shit

The drifter can just do that

[glass sluice]

I didn't say drifter.

[fast dew]

So can the operator, so can any other operator

[glass sluice]

or operator.

[strange plinth]

who are you referring to then, kaya? she figured that out on her own

[fast dew]

What kid did you mean???

[restive lantern]

EXACTLY

[fast dew]

KAYA????

She wouldve done it herself anyways???

Why are you upset over her choice???

[glass sluice]

Oh yeah, she 100% would've developed the serum, injected it into herself, and got caught in a time-loop all on her own.

[dense mist]

Woah christ that escalated quickly why are you so mad

[fast dew]

Nova doesn't even have anything to do with time travel anyways

[glass sluice]

@dense mist thomas get real mad real fast, ive learned to just ignore it.

[fast dew]

I aint mad im just mad confused

[strange plinth]

the serum he gave her has nothing to do with time travel
she's utilizing the timeloop, yea, but he had very little to do with actually helping her

[restive lantern]

Welcome to the server Thomas is always terrible to everyone and makes it bad lol

[glass sluice]

You are basically screaming at the monitor tommy, just chill.

[fast dew]

And the time loop is required

[strange plinth]

no he's not lmao??

[dense mist]

Getting mad easily aint a good look thomas maybe try therapy instead /gen

[fast dew]

What the shit

Im usually calm i just got mad confused over what someone meant by that

??? Doesnt indicate anger holy sh9t

[glass sluice]

"usually calm"

that wasnt enough quotation marks.

[fast dew]

Mad confused as in. The British use of mad

So you understand how making emotions readable digitally works

[glass sluice]

And this is why I haven't been talking WF lore with people for the last 12 years.

[restive lantern]

This is actually sending me

[fast dew]

Oh okay ganging up

Anyways, Albrecht didnt give Kaya any form of time travel

Nova has nothing to do with time travel

Its just blatantly wrong

[strange plinth]

drifter helped her to that more than albrecht did

[restive lantern]

Ppl are questioning why you're rude to literally everyone who disagrees with you, no one is ganging up on you lol

[fast dew]

Yeah?? So like. Guess we're evil lmao

No but we can be a bastard

But thats not what many folk choose i think

Just an option

[glass sluice]

Something tells me you aren't getting an answer today, Pixel.
ah well, most people in here are chill.

[fast dew]

They told me to ignore em yesterday

[dense mist]

Noted. Hopefully i can limit my interactions with those who arent

[fast dew]

They're the ones continuing it

[restive lantern]

Literally everyone else is wonderful for the most part

[fast dew]

Yeah okay, sure.

Ganging up on people, super nice.

[strange plinth]

got random beef over one convo that you're just holding onto

[dense mist]

"ganging up"
One (1) comment

[fast dew]

Two people! Actually. Pixel did this multiple times too.

I dont anticipate them knowing basic interaction though

[dense mist]

No offense but two people isnt a gang

[fast dew]

They tbink fallout is bad for. Racism.

[dense mist]

I agree

[restive lantern]

Nah dude, there's been like 12 conversations. Talking in #spoiler-chat or #lore-discussion and saying any Thomas disagrees with is liable to start a argument for no reason

[fast dew]

Its. Its the choice you make? That makes you. Rascist. About a game. For role-playing????

[glass sluice]

Thomas, I say this for your own sake: stop keeping score on people who you think wronged you.
I've seen where it leads people, it's not pretty.

[restive lantern]

And unfortunately cryptic is new and just learning this

[strange plinth]

i'd suggest this be dropped and move back on topic tbh

[fast dew]

Breaking news, roleplaying game allows you to role play [better hate every single form of table top]

[restive lantern]

It is unfortunate that we do not foster a better environment to newcomers

[dense mist]

If a game allows you to be racist thats bad imo. If you choose to be racist bc """"its just roleplay""" you are also bad imo

[fast dew]

Anyways, dont come into the lore chat, saying something blatantly wrong, and expect not to get corrected

[fast dew]

So. Better hate warframe i guess

[glass sluice]

I see it as a numbers issue. There's just too many anonymous people online and a little bit of extra moderation in problem spots can help mitigate that.

[restive lantern]

Cryptid literally said their opinions 💔😭

[dense mist]

Ok everyone i hate warframe now sorry

[fast dew]

Because you can hate on lyon for self harm, or marie being disabled, or literally any bad choicr

[restive lantern]

There nothing to be corrected

[fast dew]

[restive lantern]

NOOOOO 😭💔

[glass sluice]

I know it's you trying to get attention, but what the actual hell are you on about?

[strange plinth]

this didn't even start with cryptid lmao

[fast dew]

Good lord

[lean garden]

Scrolling back to kaya: Her becoming Nova has little to do with her figuring out time travel, or for her to be inside the timeloop, so Im not sure why thats brought up with regards to Albrechts "blunders"

[fast dew]

Yeah which

[restive lantern]

Average Thomas conversation. Lol

[fast dew]

Is why I was confused because huh

Thats not the first time i think ive seen it though

Actually mightve been the same person

[glass sluice]

You don't get to just bypass all the problems you've caused since.
Instead of trying to have a discussion about lore, you immediately went to a 10 and started yelling that someone was wrong.

[unborn cosmos]

the way that the replica operator (wally) still looks at you while dancing looks scary

[fast dew]

Go wally go

[unborn cosmos]

(zoomed)

[dense mist]

Lets gooooo wally

[lean garden]

wh-why is it dancing

[restive lantern]

Icon

[fast dew]

Because hes having fun

[strange plinth]

one word in caps is not yelling?
there was confusion, not yelling

[unborn cosmos]

little thing in chimera

wally as operator actually does it twice

[glass sluice]

@strange plinth I'd appreciate less pings from you.

[glass sluice]

Well I see it as related to wormholes, since the serum Kaya got gave her the abilities, I read it as that her abilities allowed her to tweak where the wormholes went, rather than just a physical distance.
In a lot of classic sci-fi, wormholes are used as a time travel method.

[unborn cosmos]

before going into the "formal" pose (below)

[fast dew]

Nah, kaya doesnt use that for time travel

[glass sluice]

@fast dew I'm going to be limiting responses to you from now on, you may as well save your replies.

[fast dew]

She hitches off the drifter, maybe the wormhole is used, but its entirely unintentional

[unborn cosmos]

ms. replica has a few poses

like the handstand

[strange plinth]

lol ok, i haven't pinged you once. just replies that you disagree with

[lean garden]

Alot of the leg work was done with her brain tho, especially since most of the mechanics are drawing on trampolining off the drifter into the present

[restive lantern]

YASSS

[fast dew]

High chance Albrecht only chose Nova for Kaya because of the abilities she uses

[unborn cosmos]

the "frog-sit"

[midnight ice]

i like thinking that this is immediately before the back pain pose

[fast dew]

Literally she has a line where she says Albrecht didnt really tell her much

Just "based on his eyes"

[unborn cosmos]

(speaking of) and of course the "OH MY BACK"

[glass sluice]

oh 100% she deserves the credit, but I see her wormholes as the building blocks of being able to do it, 99% of the work was purely her own brain.

if DE didn't want to hit the trope of "wormholes = time travel", they wouldve given her a different frame.

[fast dew]

"When I'd talk to Entrati about particle physics and the Void, and I LOVE to talk about that stuff, he would just, like, listen to me blather on. But I could tell, by the look in his eye, when I had things right and wrong."

From temp Archimedia

He didnt even tell her shit, he let her figure it out

[lean garden]

Sure, so which problem are you referring to when you say albrecht gave her nova to fix said problem?

[glass sluice]

i never said he gave her nova to fix a problem.

[restive lantern]

It's v event horizon in that way lol

[fast dew]

I dont think he even knew of the thing she went through 😭

[lean garden]

Im confused at what this is then

[glass sluice]

oh 100%.
on a side note: i adore that movie, and still want Sam Neil's flag as the official one now for sure.

[fast dew]

It took a while for us to even learn what happened to her

[glass sluice]

im talking in general about my theory on why he gave the hex abilities, rather than just "to give us spare frames". Which makes 0 sense when you consider cyte/temple/uriel.

[blissful merlin]

Scrolling through the last 30 min of this chat alone man…holy lmao

https://tenor.com/view/혼파망-피자-당황-community-chaos-gif-16635574

[strange plinth]

welcome to the party

[lean garden]

funny enough, there are more time travel methods in warframe that do not involve wormholes than there are methods that do involve wormholes

[fast dew]

Its more infestation than wormholes

Which is probably how she managed to do it

If only she knew of Helminth

.
Why didnt we tell her about Helminth

[lean garden]

if you think about it... if you name your helminth worm... time travel via helminth is technically via wormhole

[glass sluice]

I beg you, do not refer to going through the helminth as its worm hole

[blissful merlin]

We shall

[lean garden]

right so, whats the specific case for kaya here?

[fast dew]

Mine is named Mako meaning shark

[restive lantern]

Unfortunately the lore chats are guarded by jerk(s) 75% of the time lol 😭 it's a bit stressful for newer ppl

[glass sluice]

no idea, no idea for any of them.
the reactor being stopped doesnt even make a whole lot of sense, unless he wants the hex in that loop for some reason.

[lean garden]

sharkhole hoohaha

[lean garden]

wait so youre saying that your general theory doesnt make much sense regarding the events that happened or?

[fast dew]

"Unless he needs the hex in that loop" he. Requires them in the loop. Thats how they dont die.

[restive lantern]

Yess!!! - zariman is kinda event horizon coded honestly thinking about it

[fast dew]

[glass sluice]

@lean garden im spitballing, because none of us here have a concrete answer yet, its just speculation

[fast dew]

Mm. Maybe I should change it to Bruce.

[glass sluice]

i heard a theory once that its related to Warhammer 40k in some way, only knowing bits about it from Bricky videos, it does seem remarkably similar.

[blissful merlin]

I’m more confused as to why people seem to ganging up on Thomas when all he and Grey did was reply to rivens message and inform them that’s not right. Like they didn’t do in a rude way at all so I just don’t understand the hostility.

[lean garden]

right ok so right now youre spitballing as to why albrecht gave a bunch of oldies some icky juice?

[restive lantern]

We were referring to Cryptid saying an opinion and immediately getting pounced on

[blissful merlin]

Getting pounced on how?

[glass sluice]

12 random people got warframe super juice for seemingly no reason, although I've never been 100% clear, did whatsherface, the Scaldra one we did/didnt kill depending on our choice in 1999 get it? I felt like she did, but its not been brought up since, and its weird if Alby gave 2 people the same one.

[unborn cosmos]

what's super juice

[fast dew]

I. Didnt even respond to them outside the whole. Fallout thing

[blissful merlin]

I’ve read the messages. That isn’t “getting pounced on”

[unborn cosmos]

juice that's better

[restive lantern]

Yes! So apparently most of the lore is actually based on that, my girlfriend explained to me whenever we watched it

[glass sluice]

Accacia berries and bits of warframe mixed in.

[glass sluice]

that is actually really really cool!

[unborn cosmos]

ooh no

[fast dew]

Idk man, im just here to yap about Albrecht and the interesting things he does

[strange plinth]

rusalka? she got hollowed out by wally, no helminth in there

[unborn cosmos]

that's metal smoothie

[glass sluice]

technically the inside of the warframe is gooey, think of the shell as the cup

[fast dew]

I like how similar yet such a polar opposite the infestation and Wally are

[restive lantern]

Mmm Warframe smoothie

[lean garden]

tbvf, at least 4 of them willingly accepted.

Separately, are you talking about neci? neci didnt get any icky juice, she's too busy being possessed by wally

[fast dew]

Didnt the whole roundtable accepted? Along with ||the triad?||

[glass sluice]

Naming her "rusalka" and giving her a very saryn-like appearance, genuinely felt like that she was meant to be saryn, at least at one point in the dev work.

[blissful merlin]

I’m so excited to see him again. Can’t wait until our operator and/or drifter get to speak with him. The conversation is gonna be TEAAAAAA lmao

[fast dew]

Which. Comes after the hex, we think. So. He changed and grew woahh

[glass sluice]

Although I'm still semi-convinced that the grineer that was friends with us in Old Peace is going to be Rhino.

[lean garden]

Im not sure about Min and Vel, but yes, lyon and marie count, bring that count to at least 6

[midnight ice]

||btw, doesnt she constantly huff Efervon due to having techrot in her lungs? i heard a wally!neci line about it||

[lean garden]

rhino would have already been made at that point

[glass sluice]

im sure they didnt just make a single of each frame

[fast dew]

I really wanna see how he looks now that he doesn't need to blend into 1999. I hope we get to see bluebrecht one day

[lean garden]

she does! but like its hollvania, folks can catch the 'rot

[fast dew]

||Roathe did too, and he wouldve known what a helminth thing does, he saw what it did to his men lmao||

[lean garden]

I mean sure, but that just means that any goober can be made into an already constructed frame.

So Valdur, if he were to be turned into a frame, could become any frane

[fast dew]

I mean, if Valdur is even alive

[lean garden]

||roathe is already in the count||

[fast dew]

||wait huh oh im dumb||

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/952946035733438575/1461285583681753251/explode-1768467993232.gif

[glass sluice]

100%, but the fact that he looks remarkably like a rhino on the big page they made for Old Peace, and I didn't read/watch the intro dev stuff for it,
means that the entire time i was playing, was expecting a rhino reveal.

[lean garden]

its
|| Kaya, amir, roathe, lyon, marie, flare and maybe min and vel||

[glass sluice]

actually whilst im here and on the flow: does anyone have a compelling reason for what particular city Hullvania is based of? The bathhouses and whole eastern european vibe are reminding me of a specific place, but I can't put my finger on it.

[strange plinth]

i mean, minerva/proto saryn was made because so many people expected rusalka to be a proto saryn
iirc rebb's said that she was never intended to be a proto on a devshort or something

[glass sluice]

I avoid most of the behind the scenes stuff where I can, I don't like dev spoilers.

[lean garden]

its just vaguely european

throw a dart at a map of europe and you'll have a good chance of finding a city just like it

[fast dew]

Nah, its on the coastline

[glass sluice]

@lean garden I thought so too, but I can definitely feel more specifics in there.
I've got a bunch of family from there and it feels more "familiar" than just "city from the 'block"

[lean garden]

so what are the specifics here?

[blissful merlin]

Random fun thought: Whenever they do protos next, I’d love to see a male human being injected with a frame that’s a woman-like frame. Or a female human being injected with a man-like frame. Like if…Zephyr was a man as a proto. Or Wukong was a female as a proto. (just examples) That’d be REALLY cool to see. Especially if they made it work into the proto being trans or something? I’d love to see a story like that. That’d be a really cool way to do a specific proto.
My best friend recently came out to us that she’s trans and is planning to transition into a man so it just sparked this idea. HE’S also a huge warframe fan and flare has resonated with him so well thus far. Idk. It’d just be so cool if we got that kind of proto story thou. It’d be unique in its own way ^.^

[midnight ice]

more gender nonsense in general, bigender equinox proto or nothing

[lean garden]

You fool! That will only further entrench warframe in the woke game spreadsheet!

[glass sluice]

The big one I want to see is how they handle Xaku, or Equinox.
the former being canonically non-binary, the latter being 2 women.
(yep, equinox is 2 women, not a woman and a man)

[blissful merlin]

SCREW THEM!!!! ON WITH THE WOKENESS!!!!

[midnight ice]

i also have a transmasc friend that really wants temple 😭 the bowie swag is like a cartoon pie on the windowsill

[blissful merlin]

LITERALLY. He literally has his entire back room dedicated to temple/flare alone lmao.

[glass sluice]

ah i deleted my reply because i got excited to talk about new protos.

dw, nothing too specific, just old eastern europe stuff about countries that no longer exist.

[strange plinth]

-# no it'll stay the exact same because they never even played it before putting it on the list

[glass sluice]

is this spreadsheet like that one "traitors" list? I wanna read it, that sounds hilarious.

i wanan see how they handle mass effect, since it changes Asari's canonical gender between games from "none" to "women".

well, "none-ish".

[lean garden]

idk what traitors list youre referring to, but its the one that just rates games on how "woke" they are

[lean garden]

but like, damn dude, I dont subscribe to that weird mentality, but I 100000% can rate the games on your metric better than you

[glass sluice]

oh this was amaizng, years back this one guy put out a list of "trators", content creators/companies/celebrities, etc, that were "traitors" to the non woke.

[lean garden]

like holy shit the phrase is "never ascribe malice where incompetence would suffice" but somehow the spreadsheet owner managed to achieve malice and incompetence

[glass sluice]

it reminds me of my grandmother, who used to refer to people she didnt like as a "double bastard", and "triple bastard", if she really hated them.

[glass sluice]

wait my bad, its been so long. it was about people supporting BLM.

[strange plinth]

can find it by searching 'woke content detector' if you haven't found it already
its a big list compiled out of a steam group's reviews
for warframe specifically, they were just upset about a pride month post a few years ago, instead of any actual content

[glass sluice]

cheers, always enjoy a good laugh

[dire mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/dirty-docks-shawty-triflin-shawty-triflin-she-gif-22455514

[fast dew]

I should leave a review on most doom games for being woke [anti-authoritarianism, anti-religion, anti-corporate, accessibility settings ect ect]

[dire mountain]

Maybe. Currently though I'd say she is living up to her namesake of being a water spirit especially with all the water imagery from isleweaver dialogue

[midnight ice]

please let there be destiny 2 pleaseeee let there be destiny 2 its a slop moneyfarm game but the woke is off the charts. men kissing cutscene as the first thing u see when u logged in in 2024

[fast dew]

Mucking. All games are woke, they have subtitles

[dire mountain]

Why though??? He's just a grineer guy. Don't get me wrong he's the GOAT of all grineer I just don't see where this conclusion comes from

[fast dew]

I feel as if its like how people think umbra will be important randomly

[restive lantern]

I can see that

[dire mountain]

I wish 💔💔💔

[lean garden]

the fun part is that their list of non-woke games is miniscule, and some of them belie the fact that they are too stupid to engage with the content/context to know that the game they recommend by their own understanding of "woke" is woke

[glass sluice]

nice

[strange plinth]

yea its on there lol

[glass sluice]

I mean, the word "woke" itself has no meaning.

thats kinda the joke

[strange plinth]

either that or 'noo this one is a classic we can't put it on there'

[fast dew]

And i know doom isnt and that makes me upset

[lean garden]

Outlast? Mad max? not woke? sure buddy keep playing Putt Putt

[glass sluice]

Ya just know max and the hunchback guy are passing time in the v8.

[proper barn]

We beat the cosmic idea of indifference with old man yaoi chat.

[fast dew]

Screaming as people call doom Christian [somehow the idea of killing god makes it totally non-blasphemous]

[fast dew]

Watch out Albrecht's just using loid/s

[proper barn]

We have been a woke game forever. Also this is before we talk about like the game being anti capitalist with like the solaris.

[dire mountain]

Its always so fun finding a mention of Lasria in Warframe

[proper barn]

Medical debt is unjust and workers deserve rights chat.

[glass sluice]

one of our earliest quests is "aWOKEn. Nuff said.

[restive lantern]

Well that's not true actually

[glass sluice]

I meant it in more of a "this once had a meaning but its been so trawled through everything that its now just a buzzword" kinda way, not directly literally.
I know it originally had a meaning.

[restive lantern]

The black community created the word woke among ourselves before it was co-opted, it basically meant to you were awake and aware to the systemic injustice that effects us

[restive lantern]

Ohh okay okay sorry just trying to be helpful

[glass sluice]

i bet you think teachers deserve to be paid too. Disgustang.

[dire mountain]

I mean yeah from natah to the new war has a huge focus on identity and being able to chose who you are

[glass sluice]

lol your all good, i just put out that reply because i thought someone else might try and jump on it. Knew you wouldnt

[lean garden]

They labelled metal slug 2 onwards as "pro-DEI" for having female character options

[fast dew]

People are dumb, bau

[proper barn]

also Ticker is trans

[glass sluice]

is the original tomb raider on that list? strong female character, has control over the situation.

[proper barn]

what else. flare is nonbinary but lizzie is sher/her.

[lean garden]

wait no, this is incredible

Borderlands is not woke

[proper barn]

very funny.

[fast dew]

I got smthn signed by her VA actually

[proper barn]

nice

[glass sluice]

Sir Hammerlock is very unhappy right now.

[fast dew]

Mweheheh

I got two things actually

[lean garden]

doom is actually...

its not woke

[fast dew]

But this one seemed to be unique

[fast dew]

Somehow. Idk how they missed that the main villain of every game bar the most recent is a mega corporation

[dire mountain]

I know this is bait but doom guy is based he punched his superior officer for ordering him to fire on civilians

[fast dew]

Monks actually!

[midnight ice]

off the top of my head i counted all explicitly mentioned same-sex relationships in destiny 2 and it beat the number of mentioned straight relationships most of which are extremely important lorewise
they're the final boss of woke Triple-A

[fast dew]

He also didn't simply punch

He sent the CO home in a bodycast

[glass sluice]

you know what, i respect it.

[fast dew]

That lore isnt actually ingame, though

Comes from the manuals

[glass sluice]

markipliers dad is ingame lore, i think we can give this one the lore-stamp of approval.

[fast dew]

Oh and that random book series

[restive lantern]

Probably bc it is actually made by a Christian dude lol

[fast dew]

50 shades is too, so 9/11 happened

...what

HAAHA no.

[lean garden]

I mean, its really just Osiris and Saint, and now I guess Maya and Chioma? although thats dead. Thats it for important gay love for Destiny's plot

[fast dew]

Look up John Romero.

[glass sluice]

to be fair, i was raised catholic, and if i walked into a church now id burst into flames :p

[fast dew]

Look at his merch store.

[lean garden]

any extra queer romance is there, but isnt critical (looking at you devrim)

[fast dew]

https://tenor.com/view/john-romero-14february-beloved-my-poggers-gif-21426639

Hes so cool

[restive lantern]

Oh I meant that's why ppl think it's not woke lol

[fast dew]

Thats still wrong

[glass sluice]

hey now, all queer romance is critical in my heart

[fast dew]

It was never made by any Christian 😭

Maybe like. Sandy, the piece of shit

[midnight ice]

Mara Sov and Sjur Eido, of note, and— i forgot the rest because i haven't reread the ishtar archives in a bit so i really dont want to make solid claims

[lean garden]

Right I forgot about them, mainly cuz Bungie are cowards to fulfil the sjur watch

[lean garden]

theres Ikora and the new head of the Hidden, but thats super back burner

[blissful merlin]

Ana and her partner cameron😭😭
Ikora and Chimoa potentially having a romantic spark between them. Plenty of more GAY relationships lmao

[lean garden]

oshit I forgot about ana's partner, I can't even remember if they're alive. But that said, not critical to the plot lol

[glass sluice]

That's fairly standard for a lot of media. A character is usually bi, or the actually same-sex relationship is something of a plot point.

[blissful merlin]

She’s alive. She helped out during season of the seraph behind the scenes during lore. But was present for her girl lol

[fast dew]

People only think Doom is Christian because they use the same things, which. Is then later fixed to "oh no religion was just the result of false gods coming down to use it as a way to reinforce their authoritarian ideals and ways"

Weirdly enough this lore is introduced in eternal, but its usually eternal players who say doom is Christian

[restive lantern]

Games are made by one more on person sometimes my dude but I really don't have the energy for another needlessly semantic debate about it, there is more than one person who worked on doom that was Christian, Sandy Peterson being one of them and one of the reasons Christians are mostly fine with the game in a post-satanic panic environment and consider it not-woke and to have Christian theme. No I agree? NO. It's literally why I jokingly said that was probably why.

[midnight ice]

need a bit of clarification: when frames are mentioned in the past in their lore, such as Nezha killing corpus in the field or Ash doing his thing with the assassins or Dante being Drusus' buddy, do they have a tenno controlling them?

[lean garden]

unless stated or appropriately suggested otherwise, yes.

[midnight ice]

i feel like ive mixed some personal headcanons w canon knowledge

if they do have a tenno controlling them, are they included in the "stuffed in the moon, hidden" group?

[lean garden]

case in point dante, who cannot have a tenno controlling him because he existed prior to their inclusion into the warframe project

[midnight ice]

ooh, i see

[lean garden]

by and large yes

we see this in voruna's leverian

[midnight ice]

do we know what happens to the tennos here when their frames "die" in the story? not sure if i can pull up examples of them dying, but take for example Atlas blowing up with the asteroid or Limbo in pieces

[lean garden]

probably disconnected

I dont think tenno tend to die in their frames unless they hold on too tight to stay connected

as suggested by mirage

[midnight ice]

wonder what happens after they're disconnected from The Big LAN Party In The Sky

also wondering if these "mythical tennos" (tennos of the lore frames) are still around?

[strange turtle]

Not what that means

[strange plinth]

hm, i wonder if they'd even remember it

[midnight ice]

are they like, mini celebrities among the tenno? "hey, you remember the guy who blew up an asteroid yesterday? that was pretty sick" over the idk Lua Repository Water Cooler

lua repository pantry with the lua microwave and the lua fridge and the lua "please dont touch my lunch" bag etc

[restive river]

If any are I’d assume the ones who killed the Executors, Emperors and saved large colonies would be

Right before the big nap
“You hear about the Tenno who ate Karrish?”
“Woah what, that’s ironic lol”

[midnight ice]

the big nap

"that was a really thematically accurate and poetically ironic death, huh!"

[restive river]

It was a big nap!

At least a thousand years long

[fast dew]

I wonder if any tenno realised Rell was missing

[midnight ice]

i know the tenno woke up with those nap lines on their arms after they take the transference suit off the first time

[fast dew]

Or if they knew

[restive river]

It depends if any of them worked with him

I do wonder what Rell’s story was exactly
He was saved like the others but rejected by many Tenno and Margulis but he still got a frame

Or did he find Harrow?

[midnight ice]

i like to think they both found eachother like lost cats. isnt it just the Harrow Thing to be self-sacrificial and i guess altruistic to a sense? re: lyon admitting that he's connected to other harrows, i cant remember xactly

[strange plinth]

idr if red veil were only involved with binding him to harrow or if they found it too

[restive river]

Yeah like
Did they acquire the Harrow warframe?

How???

[drowsy saddle]

I feel like, Margulis didn't really want to cast rell out, but the optics wouldn't have looked good for the project. So she smuggled him away with maybe Harrow as an escort

[midnight ice]

didnt they build themselves around? it? i also forgor

[restive river]

What

[drowsy saddle]

Rell was scapegoated for Margulis' impromptu eye surgery

And harrow was sent with him to basically protect him

[restive river]

Palladino: "Oh, but not Rell. Margulis cast him out, for he was different. Our foremothers took him in and studied his teachings. We became the Veil. The shroud of his blessed existence."

[drowsy saddle]

But hey! That's just a theory! A frame theory, thanks for watching

[midnight ice]

MatPlat?!

[restive river]

We don’t know if he’s the one that blinded her

She seemed to have cast him out cause he was dealing with Wally to some extent
And I guess cause the Tenno cast him out too

[strange plinth]

yea
tbh i almost don't think that rell would've gone with the 'serving the empire' bit
i feel like his whole "someone to figure out" might've taken precedent
i have absolutely no basis for this tho

[restive river]

I’m actually not too sure why she’d cast him out tbh, we were dealing with the voices too

[midnight ice]

too weird, maybe? ableism? that seems out of character for marge to single out someone like that

[restive river]

It could be ableism

[drowsy saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

[strange turtle]

Maybe she just wanted to keep him away from the other kids because he was “convinced” they were more than voices and kept trying to do stuff

[drowsy saddle]

Genuinely? I believe Margulis gave rell harrow, because she really didn't want to let him go. But Orokin Bullpucky™

[restive river]

Oh I can see that

[stray yoke]

Oh thank goodness, joined at the right time. I was hoping to see if anyone had thoughts on Rell and Margulis's blindness

[midnight ice]

hell yeah

[restive river]

Oh lmao

[strange plinth]

i've heard the thought that ballas demanded he be cast out for blinding her, but that hinges on rell being the one to blind her
as you said before, not confirmed

[restive river]

Isn’t it implied we may have blinded her?

Wally taunts us about it

[strange plinth]

chains of harrow implies its rell, isleweaver implies its us (though its slightly vague)

[restive river]

Well he taunts Drifter which uh
Doesn’t
Make sense lol

[midnight ice]

i see it

[drowsy saddle]

Rell took her left we took the right

[strange plinth]

i don't remember if KIM chats take a side in it

[midnight ice]

group activity type

[restive river]

I’m not sure if it even comes up

[drowsy saddle]

Why do you think in the hunhullus fight we shoot eyes?

[fast dew]

The void when it comes to eyes

[stray yoke]

according to the wiki, there's a piece of graffiti that says "BLINDED SHE CAST HIM OUT", so that's my thought

[midnight ice]

hm. i dont remember kimchats touching around the margulis era, only the zariman era from the drifters pov

[fast dew]

-# Margulis, Albrecht, Teshin

[drowsy saddle]

Seeing is indeed believing

[restive river]

So in Chains it says BLINDED SHE CAST HIM OUT.

Neci Rusalka says “Taking my eyes now, kiddo? Wasn't Margulis enough?"

[fast dew]

Mm, the statement is vague so it could be she was blinded by something metaphorical

[stray yoke]

very true!

[fast dew]

Maybe ballas?

[restive river]

You should use the Orokin Archives for lore not the wiki

https://www.orokinarchives.com/chains-of-harrow/

[restive river]

Maybe ableism

Ableism Margulis theory shouldn’t be off the table

[stray yoke]

oooh thank you!

[fast dew]

Thats what im thinking, other than ballas, yeah

[drowsy saddle]

Imo the ableism is the other orokin

Pressured her

[restive river]

Ableism through being part of Ballas’ society aka Orokin society

[fast dew]

Physical disability didnt seem to be much of an issue, but mental ones definitely seemed to have a bigger target

[midnight ice]

maybe Neci is kind of like, taking it out on us since Rell isn't here. like she's referring to us as the collective Tenno (Rell included) (rellcluded) and "we" (rell) (a tenno) took marge's eyes. am i making sense.

its like a cultist saying "you blew up our asteroid!" when it was only that one Atlas that did it

[fast dew]

YEAH THATS WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY

[restive river]

I just wouldn’t rule out ableism with her, it adds to her not being perfect which
Is important

[midnight ice]

what did she get Jade Lit for again btw?

[restive river]

She helped us but she was oh so clearly flawed

[fast dew]

Defending the tenno iirc

[midnight ice]

ahh

[fast dew]

Is it bad of me to kinda understand why she would've done it? Rell needed special care, something she couldn't give, but she shouldn't have just thrown him out to the wolves. But. Maybe there wasnt any services that helped.

I aint saying its good but

With all the autistic meltdowns ive seen and ive had, you need specialist care sometimes

[midnight ice]

i kind of see it, like ducky said; she did get jade lit up for us but she's flawed and not the perfect mother figure, yknow?

[drowsy saddle]

I propose that this is why rell has harrow

[fast dew]

Too bad its.

The red veil

[restive river]

Margulis finally refused to participate further, and despite Ballas' urgings, defied the Orokin Executors and admonished them for their corruption and immorality59. This was a grave offence, one not even Ballas could save her from, and she was executed for "apostasy".

[midnight ice]

thanks!

[restive river]

This is from Gray’s summary fyi

https://www.orokinarchives.com/discussion-timeline-orokin-old-war/

Sources are ofc included

[drowsy saddle]

Harrow pre helminth was a religious war vet with a phd in child psychology

Final headcanon

[restive river]

Religious for what, the Orokin didn’t have a religion beyond well
Themselves

[midnight ice]

we could have had everything but we got the tortured frenchie

[drowsy saddle]

Well harrow ain't orokin

[fast dew]

I think maybe the chains could've been a form of self regulation that didn't physically hurt Rell

[restive river]

But he was part of their society and we have nothing on any other religion

[drowsy saddle]

Weird form of a blanket burrito but aight

[restive river]

The closest thing is the tenno actually

Dualism was long gone by that point in the empire so, it can’t be that

[restive river]

The chains were real physical chains lol

[fast dew]

Its not unheard of, ||self harming|| for stimulation when deprived or overwhelmed

[restive river]

He likely used Harrow’s own chains since
He was using Harrow anyway to seal Wally

[glass sluice]

Considering what they used to do to mentally ill people in the not-far-back enough past, Rell being chained seems more like a reference to....that stuff.

[midnight ice]

(crucis helm implies we spontaneously generated catholicism at some point)
-# slash j

[strange plinth]

not sure if those were an orokin era thing or a red veil thing either
.. do we know when they formed? ik they were formed around rell

[restive river]

But he did it purposefully so
I doubt that somewhat

[fast dew]

Thats what I mean! ||its a thing ive seen personally, some autistic kids will harm themselves to calm down, its super bad and not good, but its something that happens||

Ever seen one with a helmet? Thats probably why!

[drowsy saddle]

Jesus spontaneously appeared already crucified

[restive river]

I’ve always assumed they were from Harrow himself since he uses chains

[midnight ice]

he just did all that for a bit

[restive river]

That’s not whats happening here though

[fast dew]

Mm. I know

Im saying it could be initially, not when hes been sealed away

[drowsy saddle]

One day there was just, some dude on a cross, then 3 days later poof

[strange plinth]

that's probably more likely, yea

[glass sluice]

I guarantee that this channel is going deeper into the harrow lore than the devs themself did.
Not an insult to them, being able to read more into lore is what makes it so fascinating.
but every single facet of a fiction does not need to be explained in full detail.

[fast dew]

But i wont entirely disregard the idea that it doesn't help him calm down, however bad that is

[strange plinth]

sure, but its fun to dive deeper than intended

[restive river]

Yeah it’s just fun lol

[fast dew]

Dawg this is the game where the soundtrack is a love confession when the vessels are doing their thing, the game can be deep when it wants to, so its always good to look deep

[restive river]

They had a chance for more Harrow lore with Lyon but only really added one part to that specifically lol

Also yeah Warframe does go shockingly deep at times

[fast dew]

Most orokin text is translatable, and some may say thats going to deep but its super fun

[restive river]

Most text period is translatable lol

[glass sluice]

I truly do hate the way they handled the Triad.
like, their characters themselves are fine enough, but I genuinely don't care for any of them the way I care about the Hex, and sorta-kinda the other 3.

[fast dew]

Better to look super deep and find nothing than look to shallow and miss a lot

Yeah I can agree there

The characters are fine. But together its

Ehh.

And the consent convos, once again, are dogshit

Literal ass

[drowsy saddle]

Deep thoughts, with the deep

[strange plinth]

hm
did we ever figure out that one weird requiem at the end of the hex?

[fast dew]

Im scared of deep water

[glass sluice]

Having been on the other end of a partner asking for that kinda consent, I can tell you that the Hex take it WAY too easy.

[restive river]

Yeah they’re. Fine
Lyon’s story is interesting
Roathe is a realistic Orokin experience
And Marie exists to hammer home what we’ve already kinda been doing

[midnight ice]

i will forever be mad about this. squandered lore for patheticman blorbobait

read i have too-high expectations

[restive river]

It’s not even that, it’s the fact you literally cheat on them AND THEN ask for consent.
So
It’s not consent.

[midnight ice]

one weird requiem?

[fast dew]

Two hex are against that shit, the devs is saying its poly but its actually just an open relationship

[drowsy saddle]

Should've pulled a temple and have lyon, rell, and the original harrow all in the kim convos

[restive river]

At least Harrow has Rell
Wisp got completely mucked over

[drowsy saddle]

And we'd have to guess who's who every day

[glass sluice]

yeah thats what i was trying to say without saying, still a painful memory.

[fast dew]

And you can't break up in any of the consent convos other than Arthur's!

[restive river]

Drifter basically says “uh she got nothin lmao”

[midnight ice]

im so sorry wisp mains they turned your fave to waifubait

[restive river]

🫂

[fast dew]

I still giggle over ducky realising how bad the argument was

That was funny, core ducky memory

[glass sluice]

As a genuine fan of wisp, i feel like I can't even admit to liking her in a public space anymore.
I mean damn, DE just turned her into basically a barely SFW porn-bait character.

[restive river]

Best I got with her is disability and chronic pain rep
Which
Is def my favorite part of her

[strange plinth]

-# no no, squandered lore is the vallis undermind having nothing on garuda despite garuda being found in a tangle of vallis fungi /s

[restive river]

And even then I think some aspects of her are uh. Shallow
She’s nice but that’s kinda it?
When I say shallow I mean to me she lacks some needed depth

[fast dew]

I think her placement, game wise, could be done better

[glass sluice]

all 3 of the triad are like that for me, it feels like they outsourced the writing