lore-discussion

[restive river]

I think there was actually a bug where you could do?

[pale cedar]

That so should’ve been kept as a feature

[unique aspen]

The 20 Steel Path Eximus Corrupted Heavy Gunners that help test our every weapon probably have no interiority beyond derivations from previously recorded combat tactics & consequent refinement through Sanctuary Onslaught.

[woven coyote]

Reminds me of the juggernaut behemoth incident

[midnight ice]

juggernaut what

[still obsidian]

YOO I GOT LIKE A HUGE IDEA FOR THE GAME

[dry oracle]

Go on

[wispy drift]

https://tenor.com/view/caddyshack-judge-smails-ted-knight-waiting-well-we're-waiting-gif-9594523948078456179

[daring wave]

Hey i wanted to ask during the naga night when we killed all of the orokin did we fight outside our Warframes as well because margulis put us in the long sleep way before so im confused

[strange plinth]

warframes only, most likely

[daring wave]

Ok so we don't know for sure got it

I wonder if we can talk through our Warframes because i dont think it happened in game so I wonder if we can in lore

[shadow ingot]

I think there are cutscenes where we do that in-game, but don't quote me on that.

[still obsidian]

Ok soo what if like wee all know you need too master each planet too get too steal path what if they add like a seperatr junction that takes you too like a diferent uneverse with all the same planets but steal path versions of those planets

[daring wave]

I see i will just assume that we can then lol

[shadow ingot]

Besides, we have the little video feed communicator things. So we mostly do that, is my guess.

But Tenno hardly talk to anyone who isn't a Tenno.

[strange plinth]

there's one varzia line that kinda implies we were using amps during the naga drums, which obv the warframes can't
but even then, that can be refit to the old peace now, so

[daring wave]

Well yeah when we talk to others Warframe/teno but i wonder if we can with other people who can see this video communicator

[pale cedar]

No, as were were asleep and nerfed prior to Naga Drums

[daring wave]

Yeah so for now no solid answer then damn

[fast dew]

... we rarely talk to tenno

Theres like

[daring wave]

Nerfed 😂 ok thanks

[fast dew]

The 5 kids on the zariman

[shadow ingot]

I'm saying other Tenno are probably the only other people we'd communicate with realistically.

[fast dew]

We

Have you gone to any of the open world hubs

[dry oracle]

Tau system

[fast dew]

Theres also the whole possibility that we are the only tenno awake

[still obsidian]

@dry oracle ?

[shadow ingot]

I said "hardly". I know we speak to others, I'm saying we probably wouldn't do so as much as we do with fellow tenno

[daring wave]

Not really we see other tenno allot

[fast dew]

... hence the word awake, im not sure if its stated if anyone but the chosen operator was woken up

[pale cedar]

We would’ve been woken up by now because the Moon stopped being safe

[daring wave]

We are the first yes but the others woak up as well

[strange plinth]

not stated but kinda implied
if we have to be taken out of the reservoir to prevent us from being killed, the rest probably should as well

[shadow ingot]

Yeah, I seriously doubt our specific Tenno is the only one awake. That makes zero sense.

Its a weird thing where in-game mechanics makes the lore.

[fast dew]

Ill go over the confirmed people we talk to, over the. Possible people we talk with

[fast dew]

I mean. We are the only one with a drifter

[daring wave]

Because we made the deal with wally

[fast dew]

We are the only chosen operator, and im deadass sure its because of drifter

[shadow ingot]

Yeah, that has nothing to do with other Tenno waking up

[fast dew]

Im saying that if we do have it doesnt mean everyone will

Because, again, we are the only one with a drifter

[shadow ingot]

Did I ever say everyone? I never said every tenno ever is awake, all I said was that there are other Tenno also awake besides us.

[pale cedar]

Other Tenno can be awake and Drifter can exist

[shadow ingot]

Why does it feel like everyone in this chat assumes something completely different from what I say? Lmao

[fast dew]

Not what were talking about nemesis

[shadow ingot]

But he's right

[dry oracle]

The big nyx?

[shadow ingot]

Drifter can exist and other Tenno can be awake

[pale cedar]

Yeah

[fast dew]

I. Im agreeing with that. Im saying that im trying to compare that just because we have it, doesnt mean the next guy will

[shadow ingot]

Are you referring to Drifter here? Cause nobody here said that every Tenno has a Drifter

[fast dew]

Im using them as an example.

[dry oracle]

Why can't we have more one tenno in lore or cutsences or npc tenno

[shadow ingot]

I've always wanted that. I never liked the idea of one singular tenno doing everything. It feels unrealistic.

[sleek berry]

Question: Is the Player Operator developing similar mental psychosis to Rell's?

I ask because I noticed Amara (the player operator) saying "Rap tap tap little piggy" on his/her rampage as Uriel in the Old Peace

[pale cedar]

Old Peace had other Tenno in lore and in mini ARG thing

[unique aspen]

Wally definitely gets the better of us in that moment, yea

[fast dew]

The operator doesnt have a name, Mara is just a place holder

[shadow ingot]

Rell never had that, those scenes of Wally speaking to you in your head are specific to your Tenno because its YOUR tenno who made the deal.

Rell knew of Wally, so I dont doubt that he had something similar. But it was for a different reason than ours.

[fast dew]

... rell had that

Rell directly had that

Why do you think he's saying rap tap tap

[pale cedar]

I hate how so many players call it just a Rell thing

[shadow ingot]

Read my second message, please. I'm saying he had something similar but for a different reason

[fast dew]

Well we had the reverse just here

[shadow ingot]

We had Wally in our heads cause we struck the deal, Rell had it because of his connection to Wally.

[fast dew]

... except its not really for a different reason. Wally is present for presumably all tenno.

[pale cedar]

Wally has been doing it before Rell even got powers

[fast dew]

"His connection" what connection

[pale cedar]

People thought the radio was Rell

[fast dew]

Rell deadass was just isolated enough for wally

Thats it.

[dry oracle]

What if lyon allard was the reincarnation of rell

[pale cedar]

He’s not

[dry oracle]

What if*

[fast dew]

Rell was isolated and alienated from the tenno, easy pickings for wally

[shadow ingot]

I don't say "connection' like theyre linked. I just meant he knew of Wally and Wally is very prevalent in Rell's story

You're taking my words too literally

[fast dew]

THEYRE CONNECT3D BECAUSE THE DEAL HAS PARTS OF WALLY INSIDE THE TENNO

THATS WHY ALL TENNO ARE CONNECTED TO HIM

RELL ISNT SPECIAL AND NOR IS OUR OPERATOR OUTSIDE OF THE DEAL

[shadow ingot]

Relax

[fast dew]

Holy shit

Holy mucking shit.

[sleek berry]

Now I feel like I shouldn't have ask. My bad

[shadow ingot]

I simply assumed the deal was the reason Wally was in our heads specifically

And that nobody else got those voices

[fast dew]

Its not

Lyon. Lyon has those voices

Now at least

[pale cedar]

Did you pay attention to the Sacrifice?

[fast dew]

Parvos had them didn't he???

[pale cedar]

Parvos has something

He might just be ill

[fast dew]

Oh my god I need to put the bins out

[shadow ingot]

Why would Parvos have voices of Wally?

[fast dew]

Idk. Hes in the void and likely did a deal himself - much like Baro

[pale cedar]

The Devil tempts

[shadow ingot]

What happened in The Sacrifice?

[pale cedar]

"Distorted by vague horrors, we kept the Zariman survivors within a secret Reservoir. They were the missing half. Transference-linked: the warframes, the body; and they, the mind. I give you now the coordinates and codes to this place. But do not underestimate these devils, Hunhow. They did what we could not. We had created monsters we couldn't—"

Wally was not in fact done after the deal

[shadow ingot]

Okay, thats pretty subtle and vague. You can't expect me to remember that small piece of dialog. Especially when Ballas immediately moved on to the much larger point that he gave the coordinates of the reservoir to Hunhow.

[fast dew]

Well

[shadow ingot]

I simply missed that part.

[fast dew]

Nemesis did, so it cant be that hard

[shadow ingot]

Pretty dumb rebuttal

[pale cedar]

I’ve got Loretism

[shadow ingot]

I get you're frustrated, but try not to be petty please.

[fast dew]

We both do, cept mine focuses around. Whatever the hell Albrecht is

[fast dew]

Im. Im being mean towards nemesis

By calling them. Dumb.

Because. I assume we're friends

[pale cedar]

Me and Thomas are mean to each other all the time

[shadow ingot]

"Vague horrors" here is also kinda...well, vague. I could've easily taken this as the horrors of the Tenno themselves and not of Wally visions.

[fast dew]

We're each other's nemesises

I think if given the chance id bite nemesis

[pale cedar]

As Nemesis I carry the proper emphasis

[fast dew]

We hate the same person/s so we're clearly best of mates

[dry oracle]

Warframe Thomas and nemesis lore when

[fast dew]

Im Tormis, Nemesis is. Idk probably a tenno

Depends on if tormis is dead or not

[pale cedar]

I’m a Tenno that used transference on a book

[dry oracle]

The one in sanctum?

[shadow ingot]

Lorak

[pale cedar]

I’ve done both

Entering the books for all the lore is fun

[fast dew]

Do you find Albrecht's shit love poetry in them or nah

Yk half of that is him probably yearning for loid while he is saddled w Gerivaine

[pale cedar]

Albrecht’s love poetry is weird

[fast dew]

I figured it would be

[pale cedar]

I’m all for him roasting Oro though

[fast dew]

I do wish we could've at least known more about Gerivaine

But Albrecht not even calling her his wife is wild

[pale cedar]

Mother never calls her father by name either

It’s always my father

[fast dew]

Well you dont really call your father his first name

[pale cedar]

She could at least say my father Albrecht

I think the idea from the dialogue though was saving it for all requiem logs

[fast dew]

Yeah, dont spoon feed the information

Though it makes it frustratingly difficult for people to put 2 and 3 together and realise mother is Euleria entrati

[pale cedar]

That’s not too hard to figure out but players media literacy is almost dead

[fast dew]

Its. Embarrassing almost

[hollow trench]

i feel the lich system is good, reminds me of residnet evils nemesis system

[ocean geyser]

Liches are fine it just takes a while lol

Although people do like codas more for the streamlined mods

[hollow trench]

mine got up to level five

[ocean geyser]

Spooky

Yeah that’s the thing with liches

Past like
Ceres you start to see a drop in player count

[hollow trench]

like that mf taunted me time and time again.

[waxen mesa]

what language is present in Holvania?

unless it's literally just 1999 language

[strange plinth]

we'd been calling it hollvanian but it's also in Gaulle 100 years earlier so
i don't think we have a name for it

[fleet furnace]

https://wiki.warframe.com/w/1999_Language doesnt seem like we have a proper name for it

[restive river]

Early Orokin?

Since it is just Orokin
Though Modern Orokin is present in the comic via a Scaldra soldier so

[hollow trench]

tennobet looks the best tbh

[waxen mesa]

does orokin use shorthand?

[normal mountain]

Nah, they use extralonghand

[brittle siren]

Did the Tagfer species already exist in 1999? Because there are signs that show a picture of a deer-like creature that looks like Tagfer but much bulkier and taller

[lean garden]

could be a precursor

do note that tafger is a cervulite

but the species in 1999 is named...

drumroll please

tagfer!

[brittle siren]

Bird 3 species look the same in the 1999 art

[brittle siren]

Huh
So Albrecht used that name on Tagfer because he saw that sign in 1999

[lean garden]

no

I chalk it up to being a wild case of coincidence

[dry oracle]

Every time I see tagfer name I keep getting flashbacks of me getting rejected by Marie

[brittle siren]

Tbh “Tagfer” = “Tag for disposal” always seems weird to me. Why “-fer”, why not name them Tagfer 1 and 2 like Bird3? Why not use another word like “deer” or sth

[dry oracle]

Maybe he misspelled it

[brittle siren]

Have anyone translate this yet?

[lean garden]

I mean, I need to check, but wasnt that what tagfer named himself from "Tagged for disposal"

[brittle siren]

Even then, he named “Bird 3” probably because he is the 3rd of his kind that Albrecht used. Why do both Minn and Tagfer have the same name?

[brittle siren]

Iirc he said that Albrecht named both Tagfer, he himself named his wife Minn

[lean garden]

Albrecht labeled both of the Tag for Disposal

[brittle siren]

Ah

[lean garden]

I think tagfer derived his name from there

[brittle siren]

So it just coincidence that Tagfer somehow use his species name pre Orokin

Just like how the snake in the mall called Lavos

[dry oracle]

Snake in mall?

The 1999?

[midnight ice]

Lavo's Playpen or smth

big snake and foam cube pit

[drowsy saddle]

Snakes on a plane

[dry oracle]

Where

[midnight ice]

on a plane

[strange plinth]

its in the underground tileset, not the main mall
tho i think q sells a captura scene for it

[dry oracle]

Quincy mentioned

[drowsy saddle]

You can smack the foam

[dry oracle]

Hm....

[peak ether]

Got Roathe's VC about ,im assuming, his grineer men its crazy hearing an orokin respect them

[drowsy saddle]

Roathe is one of the few who actually got their hands dirty

And isn't psychotic enough to be desensitized to the violence

[peak ether]

listening to it, he sounds so remorseful about losing them

the last line, you can tell how much he respects them

about the grineer who stayed on a turret burning alive

[drowsy saddle]

He's in that sweet spot to be high ranking enough to not be propagandized but low enough to see everything from the ground

[lean garden]

ehhh, I think its just roathe who made it like that

mind you he's technically second in command to an executor

so him being on the ground isnt a function of his rank, its just a function included by roathe

[drowsy saddle]

Well his rank is Vice Regent Grand Carnus Admiral General Roathe

[lean garden]

yea, which is 2nd to Nitohk

because she was Regent

[drowsy saddle]

And a made up title to throw his butt into the field

[lean garden]

funny enough admirals and generals dont uh

or at least arent supposed to be that far down on the ground

theres something already greviously wrong if someone that high ranking needs to fire a bullet

[drowsy saddle]

Admirals shouldn't even touch the ground

Fortunately Roathe is a shining example of a modern major general

[manic mason]

I know we aren't to judge a book cause of their cover, but after watching Follie:

How likely is that her an Equinox are related? And that she also has to do with Dualism things?

If the shadowgrapher casts dark ink, does that also mean we might get as a future one a counterpart, ebony frame that casts radiant light in some way?

Will Follie and the next be a one-two like Gauss and Grendel?

[hazy prism]

If they decide to add lore for Equinox, sure, but I think it's more a coincidence, equinox is specifically a frame around duality of 2 extremes (Day/Night, Masculine/Feminine, Offense/Defense, White/Black).
Follie's design you could argue is dualism between Artist and the Art,as Follie is literally an Artist but could also be the Art piece

[calm osprey]

Things I want that’ll never happen cause lore:
Void angel frame
Orowyrm frame

[ashen pulsar]

unlikely and... kinda, if you want to make them

[ashen pulsar]

probably not

[ashen pulsar]

probably not

idk maybe we might get a light-themed frame some day but probably unrelated to follie

[normal mountain]

Maybe not a dedicated Orowyrm frame
But I can see an Orowyrm-themed Chroma Deluxe

[humble sierra]

A void angel frame is a popular fan desire

But I think it's more likely it'll just be a skin for someone like Jade

[normal mountain]

Probably
But I personally don't think a Void Angel Jade skin will do it justice
For Jade or Void Angels

[humble sierra]

I really like this fanart

[fringe sapphire]

how do i trigger the voice messages of Roathe? just going to the 21 floor in descendia or doing a full run of descendia? The story is getting interesting

[strange plinth]

beating him at the end
you can just spam floor 21

[fringe sapphire]

so thats how to get the kim messages, thanks mate

[humble sierra]

Just an FYI, I think there's a limit to how many voice memos you get in a single day, even if you spam it 21 times

But after 21 times total you'll just get the other voice memos in retrospect

[lean garden]

its not a per day, its tied to your chem rank

[humble sierra]

Nevermind Wookie ignore what I said

[lean garden]

chem rank and convo count actually

[humble sierra]

But don't ignore this because I'm 100% right: you keep the memos if you reset

[lean garden]

lemme source a sample

[humble sierra]

And there's actually chats about them

[fringe sapphire]

the bug for getting Loid to go up has been patched and can be trigger?

[humble sierra]

Seems like, yes

I haven't gotten it because I personally reset before the patch

[lean garden]

Check /Lotus/Scripts/1999/DialogueScriptNodes.lua:StoryConditions(dialogueType=/Lotus/Types/Gameplay/1999Wf/Dialogue/RoatheDialogue_rom.dialogue, rank=2, count=5, story=9

[humble sierra]

But I think I'm about to

[fringe sapphire]

hope so, someone got angy at me for keep digging in his memories Xd

[lean garden]

as you can see, you need rank 2 with 5 convos

[humble sierra]

I think I delayed myself slightly by dating Lyon first

Now a few chats will be specific to that

I probably should have waited

[fringe sapphire]

fascinating

[lean garden]

I mean... arent you supposed to continue to send loid upstairs?

[fringe sapphire]

yeah but in a chat he asks to not continue

you can agree or tell him that would make him a coward

[humble sierra]

That's just because he's afraid

[fringe sapphire]

thats what i told him! XD

[humble sierra]

For me I had to reset because he got upset I didn't follow his wishes and forced me to reset ||but little did he know that didn't stop the memories||

Which actually makes him super agreeable in this second run

[fringe sapphire]

i still find funny how some people struggle to get along with the hex and other protoframes, idk what are they talking about, we are besties lol

[humble sierra]

I'm surprised how common it was to see people who screwed up Marie's romance because they lied about being religious

[strange plinth]

or lied about how they felt about entrati

[ocean geyser]

And then got mad about it

Good on DE for reinforcing you have to talk to Marie like she’s an actual person to get with her

[lean garden]

Shocker! Telling someone only what they want to hear only works if you stay consistent!

[verbal chasm]

lowk i lied about it but still romanced her no prob

i swear you have to be an evil individual to actually mess up any of the relationships

[fast dew]

People lie about liking entrati

Thats what causes it mainly

[dry oracle]

I don't like entrati and I was honest to Marie

[strange turtle]

My favourite is the one where they get surprised when she gets angry after they admit it, like they expected their bond to be so strong that she’d instantly forgive them

[dry oracle]

I can tell why she hate

[verbal chasm]

oh yeah i kept shitting on him

[fast dew]

Whattt the woman i lied to get into her pants isnt happy when I lied about it what?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!?!

[verbal chasm]

https://giphy.com/gifs/hand-on-shoulder-it-might-seem-crazy-what-im-bout-to-say-himai-ku4g299NsSzEXlF89y

literally me every time she tried defending him

[fast dew]

Thats. Also not what you're supposed to do i feel, you are supposed to at least give Albrecht grace for the stuff he had to do

Such as leaving the family

Also. Like. Can anyone give me a singular example where Albrecht emotionally abused the family or loid, because some people say it and I genuinely cannot see where they get it from

[verbal chasm]

honestly just being more middle ground between defending and hating was the method

[verbal chasm]

i dont think it was anything with loid/the family but he did do stuff with the animals right?

[fast dew]

I mean, yeah, the cavia, though if I was to pull out some excuses, id blame it on the "lack of oro" animals would have in the orokin empire

[strange plinth]

only way i can see it is if i comically misinterpret his actions and motivations

[fast dew]

I just. Think they dont know what emotional abuse is

Using big words without knowing what it is

One time someone tried to tell me that. Albrecht must've abused his daughter because she ended up like that

[narrow pendant]

abuse means he would have done stuff with the intention to harm them when it was his own self loathing and depression that made him abandon people

[fast dew]

Brother, she deadass might just be mentally ill of her own accord

[fast dew]

Oh no, traumatised character acts traumatised, what a shocker

[fast dew]

Hell it could even be genetic

[narrow pendant]

there is this one youtuber that actually investigates the lore whos only just reaching the endgame content, its been amazing watching someone who actually puts some effort in putting the lore together by themselves

[fast dew]

She is uncomfortably close to folk ive known w BPD and its. Idk for me its obvious

[narrow pendant]

now albrecht telling her duviri as a kid for her to contol her own emotion makes even more sense

[fast dew]

-# bpd as in borderline personality disorder, not bipolar. Thats BP-1/2

[fast dew]

She might just be. Mentally ill 😭

Im sure her father leaving didnt help, but like

She was told that he was dead, by himself

HM. I WONDER HOW MANY MOTHER MEETS.

[narrow pendant]

DID I READ GAAAAAMBLINGG

https://tenor.com/view/koumei-gambling-awdangit-koumei-gambling-mrwarframeguy-gif-14566313064866036936

[fast dew]

Gambling with Euleria Entrati

I also will say this, if Albrecht is actually autistic, there is a high chance mother is too, autism in women is often misdiagnosed as BPD

[pale cedar]

DE give us more Albrecht lore

[fast dew]

Nah give us loid lore

Let me know if that man was naturally like that or is he forced to be like that

[pale cedar]

But there’s no Loid lore that doesn’t relate to Albrecht

[fast dew]

THERE IS

HE HAS A CHILDHOOD, HE TALKED ABOUT IT WITH MARIE

[pale cedar]

Loid background lore

[spice moth]

I got a question

Did the Infested On-lyne clones knew about the nuke?

[midnight ice]

if they're connected to eleanor, which is connected to the techrot, maybe...?

[spice moth]

I mean, the song "The great despair" kinda resembles nuke (one of the lyrics when the song is almost at the end)

[pale cedar]

They’re above time so maybe though they were hard coded to only care about acting like the real band

[midnight ice]

pinnacle of dgaf. Achieved enlightenment because you're literally made to only care about being a boyband

they'll be reincarnated as beautiful lotus flowers

[spice moth]

I got a question, how strong is Excalibur canonically? I only saw his strength in old peace

[pale cedar]

Not stated

Powerscaling isn’t really something Warframe factors in

[serene frigate]

are the family on deimos of orokin origin?

since they have blue skin and long arms and hands

[topaz pawn]

at one point yes

[serene frigate]

is there more to it?

[topaz pawn]

they're infected with the infestation, which is why they're in those... pods, and why they're so large

[serene frigate]

i see

[topaz pawn]

the Grey Strain, which is native to Deimos, has a tendency to make things bigger

[midnight ice]

was it native to Deimos or was it because it's the strain that Citrine's two orokin (?) unleashed via bio-bomb on the moon?

might be misremembering

[pale cedar]

It’s the strain the bomb was made of

[midnight ice]

so they basically scraped up the Grey Strain from the planet and bombed it up to ? spread it?

[narrow pendant]

it became that strain due to nothing to evolve against so it split into 2 hiveminds vome and fass that constantly evolve to beat each other, causing rapid gowth

most strains we see today were the same when the orokin used them as weapons, they evolved since then into sub strains

[topaz pawn]

iirc it was to stop the sentients from getting to the heart

[midnight ice]

i'm aware, was just confirming if the grey strain is native to the planet or did they bring it into Deimos or did they just bombed the moon with the same strain native to it

kind of useless minutiae now that i think of it 😭

[topaz pawn]

yeah either way it's the most prominent strain on Deimos in the present

[midnight ice]

yeah! and they're like okay we're so bored what if we just infight to evolve

[pale cedar]

Infestation did go to Deimos beforehand but nothing says it’s the native Infestation as the Infestation can travel

[midnight ice]

reminds me of the orokin derelict infestation, actually. so isolated it's stagnating

except it's not infighting

[narrow pendant]

the infestation is of unknown origin, the original strain originated on earth before 1999, we dont even know if its synthetic or not but its not native to other planets

you can call the helminth the most "domesticated" strain if you will

[fast dew]

Isnt. Isnt that on deimos too?

[pale cedar]

Nothing says it is native to Deimos Loid actually mentions fighting Infestation which would’ve been before the bomb which means any of the strains could’ve been on Deimos beforehand

[fast dew]

I mean, i took it as he was there after the nuke

[narrow pendant]

not on the surface i believe

[midnight ice]

in deimos but not attached to deimos

it's been ejected from the void

so it's its own thing separate from the grey strain iirc

[fast dew]

OHHH THE FLOATING SHIT

[narrow pendant]

yes, that, deimos infested got its own weaknesses and even faction icon

[pale cedar]

Helminth weaknesses when?

[narrow pendant]

not feeding it

[pale cedar]

True

A bomb works too

Radiation seems to work in general

[narrow pendant]

also helminth tweaks tf out if you hold the door open with your frame then walk in as operator

[midnight ice]

feeding it the stuff you collect in Infested Salvage

antiserum, that's the stuff

[narrow pendant]

me when i feed it argon which will decay back into the void before it gets digested

[pale cedar]

Helminth can eat Effervon

[midnight ice]

it's gonna look so sad...

[opaque zenith]

Current infestation don't have gas weakness tbf

[narrow pendant]

dont worry i put the ordis floof into its mouth as revenge for him being so rude to it

[midnight ice]

you're treating that ordis floof like a spamton plushie

[opaque zenith]

Operator, are you visualizing a [CONFLICT CLASSIFIED +17 FEATURING BLOOD AND GORE]? Me too!

[north jolt]

Besides maybe the Deimos kitties and doggos

[stray herald]

does anyone know what is the naming scheme for the orokin language? like the tektolyst mods and arcanes

and the weapon mods from father

[opaque zenith]

Nope, but that's not the orokin language.
Orokin is the cursive words (which are still english but phonetical and different symbols).
The mods are something else unknown at the moment (theorized to be sentient language)

Orokin language as an example

[true stone]

Hi. How can nidus be prime?

[opaque zenith]

There's the normal mass-producted and the one built using more gold accents, and a different design yes, but nothing unusual here

[fast dew]

Tryna explain how warframe has a huge amount of self acceptance in its story but the person is genuinely a lobotomite and cannot grasp that transference only really works because of empathy towards the warframe

[hollow trench]

if the heart of deimos is cut off, or destroyed. what happens specifically to the origin system

i remember vaguely in the quest for the entrati family that they said void powers go bye bye

[pale cedar]

All things powered by Void energy stop working

[hollow trench]

would we no longer operate warframes then or they just have no abilities

given we were imbued with the void

[pale cedar]

Warframes turn off, yes

They need Void energy

[hollow trench]

so they are seperately powered and transference is not a means of delivering power.
but operter is void imbued so are they not a source of void energy?

[pale cedar]

You’d still have your powers just the frame is turned off

[hollow trench]

ahhhhh

[pale cedar]

You don’t actually power the Warframe

[hollow trench]

but we cannot power the frame ourselves? like a jumpstart?

[pale cedar]

When it was turned off it made the frame too weak to even stand if we tried to make it move

[hollow trench]

okay okay

umbra would be the only viable option then since hes sentient?

[pale cedar]

He’d be turned off too

[hollow trench]

huh

[pale cedar]

All frames are sentient

He still needs Void energy somewhere to be moving like every frame

[hollow trench]

ok

[pale cedar]

The only special thing about Umbra is he has a unique bolt that leaves him with a burning memory which leaves him unable to truly move past

Same thing with Stalker and his motivation to kill us

[unique aspen]

...it's definitely hitting me how odd it is that Warframes are simultaneously a form of Helminth strain Infestation and also incapable of functioning w/out this complex external device.

[topaz pawn]

it is a little strange that they need void power at all

[pale cedar]

We aren’t ever told what void thing specifically is in them

It seemingly wasn’t referring to us because we aren’t actually in the frame

It could be that we have enough power to control them on our own

[fast dew]

I mean. Its like a battery

Remove the battery, and it wont work

And transference relies on the operator for a myriad of reasons

[unique aspen]

The bafflement is about the Infestation being a (pseudo)biological network of evolving organisms. Having a machine rely on inserting batteries is pretty normal, having an animal do that less so.

[fast dew]

I... I will be honest with you, we run on electricity all the same. Just a different type iirc

We are just wet, fleshy, gross machines

[strange turtle]

Ultimately it’s just getting it’s energy from a different source

And this way lets it do magic and not need to worry about rations or it’s digestive system in general

[unique aspen]

Again, it's the immediate dependence on a complex external device that surprises me. You would think the Infestation would have a way to keep Infestation-ing at a lesser capacity, even without its primary energy source. Humans don't go into a coma the moment they can't get three square meals a day.

[strange turtle]

It does. Well, it could, I mean

This ain’t normal Infestation tho

[fast dew]

... it does react badly

I uh. Forgor to ate today and my entire body wants to die

[unique aspen]

I suppose this being part of making the Helminth tame and safe makes sense.

[solar salmon]

Seemingly they do work for a while without contact to the void I just assumed protea only needed to scan the operator cuz they're outside of the range of the heart

Granum void seemingly being cut off from the rest of it and all

Maybe the reason the infestation is inert in warframes is specifically because it's a strain tuned to handle void energy

[strange turtle]

…they don’t need the heart in the Granum Void

It’s Void

Frames only need the Heart normally because thats what gets void energy into the system

She’s a Specter so she probably just needed to scan another warframe’s body to actually like, know how to work

[restive river]

It’s likely how the frames are powered, or their core systems
Everything that sets them apart from run of the mill infested

I’ll stand by that Xaku gives us some insight into what a frame looks like on the inside, at least for the skeleton
Which even that would differ from frame to frame
But Xaku has a core, I believe it’s referred to as a heart in concept art? Idr exactly but that core is there

And with the vessels having giant void hearts I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that through their own heart they connect to the larger heart and boom void energy powering the frame same as other void tech

[restive river]

Do you recall the lore on specters :?

[pale cedar]

Funny how only one of them has a heart

[restive river]

:?

[pale cedar]

Only one vessel has a beating heart

[restive river]

Don’t the other ones beat too?
Ig those ones aren’t done actually

[pale cedar]

Nah

[restive river]

When will Loid finish the vessels smh

[opaque zenith]

the inverse, only one hasn't

[opaque zenith]

But tbf is hard to hear the others in the chaos of the missions

[restive river]

I do love that the Vessel hearts are visually identical if not similar to the primary Heart

[restive river]

Are the exposed ones beating :o

Cause I’m assuming no since those are unfinished

[pale cedar]

I theorise they were finished but the missing ingredient was us

[opaque zenith]

Need to check the capturas (but can't rn), but i remember the simulacrum one still has a beating heart

[restive river]

Ok but some are literally unfinished lol

Like yes I do agree they need operators, that is vital
But also some just are missing parts or are actively being worked on

[restive river]

I can check via mobile in a sec

[opaque zenith]

make sure to turn down music and up the environment sound

[pale cedar]

Time to kidnap Albrecht to get him to finish them

[fast dew]

I find it so interesting that its the one that represents Albrecht's thats missing the heart beat

Mm. Foreshadowing i feel

[restive river]

What

[fast dew]

The vessles in the sanctum, the one that's Albrecht in the pose doesn't have the heart beat, Loid's does

Yk?

Vessels... vessles....

Its what they're talking about, I believe theres the femme vessel out in the labs with the exposed heart

[restive river]

So I looked at the abandoned vessel scene and the fabrica atomica scene
The abandoned one, the one Wally takes over, in the same room where he plucks apart a lotus flower does not have a beating Heart

Meanwhile the fabrica atomica one DOES have a beating heart but it is not the Heart on the floor beside it, nor does that one move
Maybe mobile weirdness but that one is alive

[restive river]

Oh I was focused on the ones not in the vessel lmao

[fast dew]

Isnt that the vessel supposed to represent loid, it just. Moved? Ive always thought that 😭

[restive river]

Wouldn’t the one representing Albrecht be the one we took control of?

[fast dew]

Mhm.

Oh thats an interesting thing then

[restive river]

It’s also the one we do the peace sign with at him so

[fast dew]

That was. So funny, but poor loid

[restive river]

Idk how deep the vessels representing people go beyond the scene in whispers

[fast dew]

His poor heart must've damn near exploded

[fast dew]

I will headcanon that the one w the heart out on the floor is. Mother (that was a femme vessel right?)

I refuse to believe Albrecht didnt make anything in the shape of his daughter

[restive river]

Or like
Considering the Vessels have DNA from the Protos it’s probably like. One of them

[fast dew]

Probably visually based on DNA shit

But i don't think he is out here making the protos as vessels, i feel?

Not intentionally yk

[waxen mesa]

if I had to guess

The Indifference was feeding off Loid's bitterness toward Entrati. Because of that it made his control vulnerable to Loid's emotions. Loid associated the vessels with Entrati. So when Loid realized that Entrati did love him the vessels became representitive of that realization.

that is to say. They don't represent people at all, we just exploited a weakness

[restive river]

Anyway
It’s hard to tell cause even with music off cause Wally keeps wailing but in the Sanctum the Vessel we controlled, the one connected to Arthur has a slowed Heart Beat, it’s so subtle
In Whispers this would be the one that represents Albrecht

The other one, the one Wally controls and is touched by the Arthur Vessel has a much stronger heartbeat

So we cut the Strand of Khra by making him feel love

[restive river]

The vessels have the protoframe DNA, they are literally part of the Vessels

[topaz pawn]

that doesn't mean they're representative of them, though

[fast dew]

For us as the consumer of the media, I mean

Yeah theyre based on them from a DNA level, but for us i dont think theyre supposed to represent that

[restive river]

I do wonder what the Vessels will be used for and how they will be used

[waxen mesa]

Indifference mech battle

[restive river]

I would kill for the Vessels to be a frame that you make the abilities for
Like
You mix and match based off all other frames you own

I can only see the Vessels being exclusive to one gamemode too so that could work

[fast dew]

I feel as if they might be similar to tauron strikes

[restive river]

I meant mechanically sorry lol
Lore wise I do wonder that too, all we know is fighting Wally

[waxen mesa]

imma be a downer with this

[blissful merlin]

That sounds so fun

[waxen mesa]

but I think it'll be used for a cinematic battle only

[fast dew]

Build up ability to use as an ultimate in occasional settings

[waxen mesa]

we transference in. left click a few times. cutscene

[restive river]

I mean that’d be fine too lol

But i can absolutely see DE doing something like that

Ultimate freedom but only in one specific setting

[fast dew]

I just lowkey cant wait to see Albrecht again

I hope all this time w out him was spent redesigning him to fit back into the origin system again

For a story arc so heavily based on Albrecht, we sure do not see his ass often

[unique aspen]

I expect us to help or appease Wally in some way, though that's also not mutually exclusive with a little pummeling along the way

[fast dew]

We wouldnt help wally like at all lol

[restive river]

Yeah I don’t think there’s helping him

[fast dew]

That would be a severe character shift for both of them

[waxen mesa]

CE wally some love and set up a KIM account for him

[fast dew]

Wally can't be made better, he is just like that. The whole redemption thing for this last update was about Albrecht and his own feelings, not wally

[pale cedar]

Damn Tormis

You can’t wait to see the man you rejected for thinking the Void was energy with no true proof

[fast dew]

SHUT YOUR MOUTH BOOK.

[restive river]

Wally doesn’t want to be redeemed so
He won’t be
Nor can I see either Drifter or Wally redeeming him

[fast dew]

Shan't speak of lies regarding your superiors/j

[restive river]

Wally is literally the reason our lives are terrible

[pale cedar]

You lot gave up on books for Ayatan look which one survived

[restive river]

Mom and Dad?
Wally
Stuck in the void, in Duviri for hundreds of years?
Wally
Forced into being a child soldier?
Wally

Two of those are by technicality but he likely caused the Zariman, most likely drove all the parents mad, gave children powers to kill their own parents, left one version of us in groundhog day hell

And that’s just our first encounter with him

[fast dew]

W Roathe its like. Oh he was in a war, kinda understandable

W Albrecht its also kinda understandable. He was being cornered and did not have much of a choice, to some degree.

Wally just got us to kill our parents to further isolate us. Kinda like a predator I aint gonna lie

[restive river]

I mean they both did, but books don’t fit into silly sculptures

[fast dew]

A lot of the isolating and alienating shit wally does is. Scarily close to predatory behaviours i feel

[restive river]

As much of a hurt little blorbo Wally is he’s still the sole reason our lives are terrible, he has caused immense trauma to our lives personally
If he is being redeemed, it’s not by us

[pale cedar]

Yeah, but the library survived while the towers holding Ayatans fell

[waxen mesa]

Could Wally disguise himself as Minn?

[fast dew]

We find ayatans just as much as we find books!

I do love books though

I love reading
-# normal books too, not just fanfic

[restive river]

TRUUUE
it helps the library was sealed away at the core of an infested moon lost to the void for ???? years

[restive river]

He likely can disguise himself as anyone who’s entered the void or mad close enough proximity to him

[pale cedar]

He probably doesn’t even need to have met the person watch him copy someone based on a painting or he himself becomes the painting

[pale cedar]

Indeed but all that knowledge goes when it opens up while the book always expands

[waxen mesa]

I wonder how much Wally understands. he can be described as a child banging toys together by Drifter which implies a level of unawareness.

Maybe Wally doesn't understand the difference between a painting of a person and the person

[unique aspen]

It lives in a state of perpetual constriction and agony, which it copes with through indifference, and it rages at us for being made to feel like it might be saved, at being given and then denied hope (all the being given a light stuff w/ the Operator), at having to be made to comprehend its own suffering. There's v much a sympathetic angle in there, I think.

I also just don't see an ending where we just punch it until it goes away, either.

[fast dew]

There is no sympathy to wally.

I dont care how much you are hurting, you do not lash out to petiole who haven't even hurt you.

That makes you just as bad as the abuser.

[restive river]

It seems like the angle DE is hinting at is more so sealing Wally away tbh
Similar to what occurred with Rell, though I can see that being a plan that doesn’t pan out

[waxen mesa]

throw wally into the sun

[restive river]

As for Wally being sympathetic
No I. Don’t really see that, not for the Operator and Drifter anyway.

If he’s being redeemed, it’s not by us

[fast dew]

Put him on our hip like the boyfriend in Lollipop Chainsaw, have his fingers just there

Alternatively we just cut him up

[normal mountain]

Ah
The Ouranos treatment

[fast dew]

I should draw that as Loid

Giving loid Albrecht's head

[normal mountain]

Cut him up and spread the parts so he can't influence anything anymore

[fast dew]

Here's your lover :D

[restive river]

Ngl a seriglass sword go be amazing

[fast dew]

Nah, seriglass daggers, have two shards strapped to handles

[restive river]

Sergilass anything

Unique effect: double damage to all Murmur

[fast dew]

OHH IMAGINE A GARA SKIN THEMED AROUND SERIGLASS

[restive river]

A frame that spites one Orokin with a skin that relates to another would be neat

Really any new Gara skins would be cool
A Nihil themed one would be great

[fast dew]

"Yeah screw you nihil, I did it again but now its themed after a man you likely hate and want to kill"

[restive river]

Imagine Nihil was one of the few that supported Albrecht’s ideas about the void being useful lmao

He was up to a crazy project himself
A
Far more psychotic one but y’know

[fast dew]

It would be cool, but nihil liking someone perhaps isnt a good idea

[restive river]

You can say that about most Orokin

[unique aspen]

It's definitely a big ask of the protagonists, yea - but Drifter can find it in themself to acknowledge Thrax as just a kid afraid of being alone, and Thrax was impaling them on the daily.

I don't think Wally has to be forgiven here or anything - it's more like acknowledging that past harm & current bad blood does not mean the other person does not deserve to move on and heal from ehat drive them to be like this. I think having to accept that would fit for Warframe, which is often about self-mastery and empathy for the monstrous.

[fast dew]

... do not confuse Wally as a kid.

Maybe he was at the start

[restive river]

Wally is hundreds of years old at the minimum

[fast dew]

Which even then, i doubt

He ripped directly from Albrecht's mind. A grown adult.

[restive river]

Accepting what happened to us makes sense
But redeeming Wally doesn’t

[unique aspen]

I don't think it is a kid, but Thrax is an example of someone responsible for similarly absurd levels of harm.

[restive river]

We help Umbra accept what happened to him and we help him kill Ballas
Or
Attempt

[fast dew]

Thats the thing though, thrax is willing to change, but is unable to

Like. Physically unable to

[restive river]

Thrax’s flaw is he literally is incapable of change

[fast dew]

But wally can, and he perpetually chooses to be this way

Theres lashing out, and theres being a systemic abuser

[restive river]

There’s no good reason he did what he did with the Zariman, an explanation maybe exists but
That’s not an excuse of his actions there

I’m not even sure what it’d look like if he was redeemed or changed
The tenno would never trust him
Albrecht wants him gone
He might have something with Russalka and that’s kinda it

By this point I don’t think redemption is on the table unless he puts it there
And he hasn’t and likely won’t

[fast dew]

Still dont understand why mother was obsessed with finding Albrecht in the void, especially now with what we know with Albrecht's departure from the family

||he framed it as a suicide of sorts. Letting himself rot and die (so real for that one Albrecht), so. Was she that deeply in denial about it?||

OH DUCKY

I. KINDA WENT NORMAL MODE AND I THINK I FIGURED OUT WHEN ALBRECHT RENOUNCED CONTINUITY

AND IT MEANS THAT ALBRECHT DID NOT IN FACT DO CONTINUITY TO CHANGE HIMSELF

[unique aspen]

I'm not saying it is not continuously and deliberately abusive, but also I think punitive justice by itself does not fix that in a way that addressing the causes of their behaviour would, even if they're horrible. (If anything, harsher circumstances often just motivate worse behaviour.) I'm also not talking about redemption here - I'm not expecting Wally to suddenly turn Nice and Good and Helpful or smth, just appeased so we get out of each other's hair.

[fast dew]

I. I personally think that abusers should be shot dead on the streets, so it could be a very different opinion there

But you can't. Appease wally.

The only way to appease him is to give him back his finger.

And how do we think he'll act with his finger, given how he acts now?

[pale cedar]

He’ll be worse

[unique aspen]

Probably more "Wow, I am like a microscopic speck of dust to it, that's messed up" like Eleanor felt and less "Stop caring about others, all of them will die & they'll have it coming" the Operator & Drifter get. Like, I do feel like it has a point to prove to us specifically in a way it doesn't for other people who pass through the Void.

[north jolt]

We're putting Wally in time-out

[fast dew]

... no

Albrecht is planning on killing this universe.

His patterns do not change when he becomes whole

If not worse.

If he is like this, without the finger, mass murderer and killer of multiple timelines

What do we think he'll do now that he isnt chained down?

[unique aspen]

I disagree. I think most of what it's done is either About Albrecht or About Us.

[fast dew]

He made us kill our parents for the shit of it.

He made us kill our parents to isolate us, in order to manipulate us further

We had nothing to do with what Albrecht did

[unique aspen]

We're relevant due to the deal. It never got Our Light, whatever it expected that to mean.

[fast dew]

But why did he choose kids?

Why did he choose to make those kids kill their parents?

Mind you, he did that before the deal

He targeted us before the deal.

[unique aspen]

I really don't think we know that's true. We know they went mad, but we don't know why or how, as far as I'm aware.

[fast dew]

Drifter says as much.

Void doesnt make people go mad.

It has only been wally, consistently wally.

Void just kills or harms, like teshin or Albrecht.

Regardless, drifter deadass says it

[north jolt]

Well one could look at this in a very meta sort of way and say "DE didn't think that far ahead when they originally introduced the Zariman lore" :p but if I had to think of an actual in universe explanation, it might be as simple as children under stress and a literal threat to their lives being easier to manipulate then adults who, even under similar circumstances, might be more hesitant to make a deal with a shady void entity. There might also be something about the emotions of children being more potent

[fast dew]

And while I think there is certain things we shouldn't take as 100% truth from the drifter (idc what you say, Albrecht did not have multiple kids. It was a typo turned game of telephone) this is inline with what wally does when interacted with

[unique aspen]

I'm just curious where they're going will all the light stuff, ultimately. There's an Eleanor conversation that winks about us not knowing the whole of it, and the Old Peace builds on the motif.

[fast dew]

It is very much "children are easier to manipulate". Wally consistently goes for childhood memories and alienates them too.

[north jolt]

Though if we don't end up finding a way to make Wally chill TF out, then I wonder what if any payoff there will be for all the characterization they've been getting so far, especially during the Hex quest

[unique aspen]

Yeaaaa - was going to go get some quotes from that quest

Indifference: "These gifts you have: a piece of me. Given freely."
Indifference: "But those before you were butchers. Flayed flesh... for stolen stars."
Indifference: "But those before you. They did not ask. They butchered me. My flesh fed their greed."

[north jolt]

Its why Im actually leaning towards the "Wally gets time-out" theory. Kind of giving him the Nihil treatment. Not literally turning him into a cephalon ofc, but just finding some way to weaken and imprison him but still allowing him to have a presence, even if a diminished one

[stray herald]

Can anyone in the hex go to the present with kaya’s nova powers?

[loud oriole]

turn the Man in the Wall into the Man in the Incomprehensible Wall

[azure jasper]

Not sure. Doubt it though. Temple took the long way.

[north jolt]

And all the talk about "redemption" especially with the most recent update, and past examples like with Hunhow, maybe Wally wont immediately get "redeemed" by the time this saga comes to an end, BUT maybe once it does conclude the process of redeeming him will be a slow and ongoing thing sorta happening in the background while DE shifts the story focus to whatever they have planned next

[pale cedar]

Temple got there with the help of Kaya so, yes

Though they don’t really need Kaya when they have us who could leave before Kaya even showed up

[stray herald]

I think that remains a mystery as to how he got to an asteroid. Idk if kaya used time travel to send them there but they just said they just hibernated till the night of the naga drums

[pale cedar]

They hibernated after getting out of the loop

[azure jasper]

IIRC, they hopped on an asteroid that was passing by at that time but would also pass back by on Night of Naga Drums.

[stray herald]

Still wondering how he got out of the loop

[pale cedar]

With Kaya’s help

If Kaya figured it out Kaya would just have to use Nova power on Flare

[azure jasper]

I think Kaya could get them out of the loop but couldn't take them fully to the future for some reason.

[pale cedar]

Took them to the future just not the far future so Flare just waited

[azure jasper]

Probably paradox related stuff. Kaya always was going to get to our present, so no paradox there.

[unique aspen]

Catching up on the Isleweaver notes, which go into Wally's outlook on things - it does seem like it has a frustration with the notion of Love As A Whole, preceding the deal & prompting the Zariman situation. I should revisit the ending of Whispers in the Walls at some point.

[fast dew]

You know this is wally manipulating the narrative right

Next youre gonna take what Loid's one says is as true

[unique aspen]

I'm not saying it didn't unfluence the parents or smth, but that it is notable that this is the lesson it is intent on imparting.

[north jolt]

Dang, Wally confirmed a Lacanian? /jkg

[fast dew]

.... this is also the same character who says, And I quote

"He died of a broken heart, waiting for a man who would never come back. A man who was secretly glad to be rid of his whining, clinging presence."

Which is inarguably false.

[unique aspen]

Yes, it wants to frame all love as false and unreliable, but the fact it's doing that is notable

[fast dew]

Wally doesn't like love bevause it hurts him, of course he'd put the seed of doubt into that relationship

He's doing it bevause it stops him from

1. Keeping Rulsalka
2. Hurts him!

Its not notable its what he does

Thats how he manipulates people

[unique aspen]

I don't actually thing the Indifference is like, physically hurt by love or smth, tbh. That's kinda silly.

[fast dew]

He is physically repelled by love lol

This is the game that makes it so empathy is what transference works

[tall echo]

THEY

[pale cedar]

Wally casually getting defeated by love 2 quests in a row

[unique aspen]

The 2nd being the Hex conclusion? Or am I forgetting smth

[tall echo]

Yes

[hollow trench]

The power of friendship ahh weakness

[unique aspen]

That's pretty much just proving it wrong, innit? It says everyone will die due to their group being a mess, but they don't because you helped them all grow as people. Hardly physical hurt : P

[pale cedar]

Wally was hurt by us doing it

Did you not hear him crashing out and blaming the Orokin?

[unique aspen]

I am looking at the transcript rn - the blaming the Orokin bit is on the first loop where it's showing you the 'everyone dies' outcome. It really does not crash out much in the true finale, there's like three lines for it in there total.

[fast dew]

Wally shouldn't be in the finale should he?

[pale cedar]

He’s in both parts

Wally sends Murmur after you in part 2

[north jolt]

Friendshipnuke

[midnight ice]

diminutizing such a vast Thing feels like a steven universe style cop-out, but i might just be overblowing wally's scale

[hollow trench]

Gonna grind for friendship prime brb 🥀

[pale cedar]

Also back to it

Wally says the Void thrives on nothingness

Love isn’t nothingness

[hollow trench]

Wally is just jealous he doesn’t get friends or baddies

[pale cedar]

He has friends

His friends are himself

[hollow trench]

Lame

What a nerd

[pale cedar]

Wally literally talks to himself

[north jolt]

all his friends are hands and feet

What did Wally mean by this?

[hollow trench]

Bro is schizo

Wally schizo confirmed

Wally is a freak?

I’m sorry

[north jolt]

I want to make a joke, but I don't know if I should

[unique aspen]

Genuinely kinda my read of it, yea. Hates the idea that somebody else gets to thrive and belong and it doesn't.

[north jolt]

That would fall in line with something Tagfer says too

[unique aspen]

Oh? Do share

[midnight ice]

if we're going the curtains are blue path it's something about how hands have been a recurring theme; severed finger, handshakes, hand on the vessel's cheek, hand as a signifier of humanity (also see: cave paintings), hand as a signifier of "connection"; a want for connection or a jealousy or otherwise

the funny answer is freaky wally. i guess

[hollow trench]

Freaked up Wally is funny

[north jolt]

I cant remember the exact phrasing, but he basically theorizes that Wally is in fact lonely, and wants to be part of our world but its clumsy and doesn't know how to do so without causing tremendous harm

[unique aspen]

Fascinating

[north jolt]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarframeLore/comments/1gi29rk/one_of_my_favourite_tagfer_quotes/ found it

[midnight ice]

you could go as far as to argue that the possible reason the only finger severed in the first contact was the index finger is to evoke the Creation of Adam, some Promethean gift of "fire" (void travel via reliquary) by some "God"

[north jolt]

(maybe if y'all did more Netracells you would know this! /jkg )

[midnight ice]

it's reaching out, same way it reached out to the escaped-zariman-Tenno

[hollow trench]

If that’s genuinely it, you’d think everyone would have come to that point.

Plus albrecht was the first person to interact w it
But that also means it would have set a precedent no?

Like Wally’s impression of humanity would have been based off of albrecht

[north jolt]

And even before the incident, Albrecht was kind of cold, distant, selfish, even indifferent

[unique aspen]

(I do my weekly netra! But it's been ages since I clicked the extra monologue option on him, so yea - good catch)

[pale cedar]

Albrecht created Wally so whatever Albrecht was thinking of at the time Wally became

[north jolt]

Wally is likely just a reflection of Albrecht's worse tendencies

[midnight ice]

and i guess Albrecht's memories also leaked out into the void, both into conceptual embodiment and literally leaking out of him in wisps

[north jolt]

So Roathe might be onto something there, even if not 100% on the ball

[hollow trench]

And the indifference like talked abt in the tagfer quote

Is trying but literally has no clue how
Like a baby learning to move

[unique aspen]

I generally attribute the Indifference's... indifference to its circumstances (being a one-of-a-kind existence stranded in an infinite absence, with a part of it cut off and used to push spaceships around) rather than some sort of foundational Albrecht character flaw.

[hollow trench]

Maybe both?

I can see how both are big enough to leave an impact

[unique aspen]

But, yea, Wally's vessel takes on a look of, just, profound sadness at being tenderly touched before it withdraws.

[hollow trench]

That scene broke my heart

[north jolt]

I was confused by it at first but I've grown to better appreciate the meaning behind it

[unique aspen]

IMO it's coping in the same way Drifter coped with Duviri. It's easier to feel nothing than to keep feeling the hurt, but feeling nothing deadens you to everything beyond what you know.

[hollow trench]

Genuinely curious tho with how important the void becomes over time how did Wally feel regarding everything they were doing from Warframes to solar rails

[tall echo]

Reminder that wally drove the parents on the zariman insane and gave the kids void powers just to see what happens

[tall echo]

He hates it

[north jolt]

I think one way or another locking away or imprisoning Wally is going to be the end plan. Though it would be weird for so much of the game's story up to this point be focused on redemption and healing past trauma for to not really have any real pay off. Like I said before that doesn't mean Wally will be INSTANTLY redeemed, but maybe a long term process can begin

[midnight ice]

some disjointed thoughts: if you are a being un-existing in no-where, and your first breath of conceptually-embodied-existence is through the perception of a man who continuously for the rest of his life perceives you as a hostile being, would you not then fill the self-fulfilling prophecy of the villain in the story? a hand reaches out and caresses your cheek for the first time in your un-life; a bit like a missing syntax error, has anyone considered that an ontologically Villaneous Thing could have feelings? could want to reach out? has anyone conceptually embodied the fact that you, like the things you have based your entire dubious-existence on, also have feelings?

[midnight ice]

we're chiseling his ass out of that damn wall

[hollow trench]

Get your atlas ready

[north jolt]

Is giving him a BBL part of the healing process?

[midnight ice]

yes. next question

[hollow trench]

Enhanced by the void as well

[unique aspen]

I think I could buy somebody choosing to join Wally within the Void, maybe a new character, maybe someone we already know. Just sealing it away would definitely not resolve the thematic conflict, but giving it companionship alongside taking away its ability to do further harm could work, I think.

[north jolt]

"Tenno, Im trying to break through into your world but Im dummy thicc, and the clap of my a** cheeks keeps alerting Albrecht"

[midnight ice]

this is how the Seriglass Bell broke. I was there as the chunk of the laboratory afloat in a vast stark-white expanse dotted with pinprick-black stars

[hollow trench]

Wally gone sexual!?

[tall echo]

"His solution is just throwing more animals at me and it's only working because they scratch me"

[north jolt]

I cant

[tall echo]

I can

[hollow trench]

I wanted to play whispers in the walls but it’s bugged for me

[north jolt]

TFW you have an amazing joke that might get you smited

[hollow trench]

Replay

[tall echo]

Yeah I almost got banned for being an internet funnyman

[north jolt]

The struggle is real

[unique aspen]

Yeahhhhhhh - I can definitely buy the idea that this is the first time it ever experienced something like this (and it's been, what? Centuries now? More?)

[tall echo]

Eons

[unique aspen]

Oh, wow

[midnight ice]

i'm not sure if i'm missing some links or the development of how-the-void-looks has been neatly stark. it's a blindingly white space with black stars, or an expanse filled with wispy teal embodied energy like clotting blood, or the sandy brutalist rocky un-mountains. it's, i guess, coalescing?

[tall echo]

It's been at least 1000 years since the collapse

[midnight ice]

more than eons i reckon. how old is the concept of not-existing? lol

before the big bang there was the space about them

[north jolt]

Well the sandy rocky parts are mostly part of the labs. I'm not sure if its actually void native architecture or just the labs being corrupted by the void's touch

[tall echo]

The rocks are wally and wally's domain specifically

[midnight ice]

must be a terribly lonely inexistence

[midnight ice]

oh yay #myrocks

[unique aspen]

#myrocks

[north jolt]

Wally a kobold confirmed?

[tall echo]

Wally's domain is wally is wally's domain

[unique aspen]

I did always think of the rocks as being The Wall™, despite obviously being more brown than the Wally at the end of the New War

[restive river]

The murmur are like
Skin flakes

[north jolt]

eww

Tell Wally put on some damn lotion

[unique aspen]

I wish my skin flakes would fight on my behalf...

[restive river]

Lmao

[tall echo]

Nah more like nail clippings

[midnight ice]

hm. okay last thoughts: the sands enroaching on Albrecht's seemingly immense expanse of technological advancements and research REALLY reminds me of Ozymandias

[north jolt]

stand abilities be like

[tall echo]

Technically the murmur are like sentient fragments

[restive river]

The only one of Wally’s (confirmed) forces that aren’t innately him are the Fragmented

[midnight ice]

Half sunk a shattered visage lies! Look at my works, ye Mighty, and despair! Thelone and level sands stretch far away! smells wallyish dunnit

[pale cedar]

Why doesn’t Wally pull domain expansion anywhere else in the System?

[unique aspen]

Definitely a likely inspiration, yea

[tall echo]

Not important to him

[midnight ice]

he understands artstyle inconsistencies and the fact that fortuna is already ugly post-narmer

[restive river]

I wanna go into the wally maze

[pale cedar]

The Labs is a Wally maze

[midnight ice]

have to go to bed but this has been a really neat convo, thanks!

[restive river]

I mean without the labs

[tall echo]

I wanna explore those spires and stalagmitites in the skybox

[north jolt]

I wanna punch the giant face in the face

[unique aspen]

Thank you for the chat~! Glad I could voice these thoughts~

[tall echo]

Give me gas city 2: void edition

[restive river]

I want a seriglass blade to cut through the murmur >:)

[midnight ice]

forget gas city, make orb vallis cold again. i hate lookin at tiled grass

[north jolt]

Vitrica but actually good

[tall echo]

Now with 42x more bottomless pits

[tall echo]

Dagger?

[restive river]

Iirc the corpus wanted it further terraformed anyway soooo

[restive river]

I’ll take anything

Dagger is probably the best consider it probably shatters easily

[pale cedar]

I wanna see Warmvallis

[north jolt]

Seriglass bow

Seriglas shotgun

[restive river]

Seriglass arrows would go insane

[tall echo]

The bell shattered into tiny pieces so I think you'll only have pieces big enough for a dagger

[restive river]

Give me the sharpest of blades

[tall echo]

Or maybe that one club with [glass] blades in it

[pale cedar]

Can someone heat up Orb Vallis for me so I can see real Venus?

[tall echo]

Ugh why can't I remember the name

[north jolt]

Macuahuitl

Also would be sick

[tall echo]

YES

Would it be a hammer or heavy blade

Oo something like the split sword, able to use stances from both

[north jolt]

Based solely on how good the stances are, I would just make it a sword tbh

Maybe a hammer

[hollow trench]

VOULL NE XATA VOK, MARA LOHK?”

This is what Wally says at the end of the new war cutscene right?

Lotus claims she heard nothing but she’s being extremely deliberate in hiding info

What could be so bad to hide that she’s scared

Wait

There’s a possibility that what lotus was told relates to our deal made, and if that is the case

We did break the deal with Wally technically

So would it be unreasonable to say that she would take the price of breaking the deal and keep us safe?

[unique aspen]

I do wonder what is going on w/ her hearing the call of the Void & her connection to it in general

[hollow trench]

She knows the void and has the biggest understanding of it

She would be the one person to understand why Wally is the way he is

And that would scare her most likely

[fast dew]

Uhm

[hollow trench]

Unless I’m wrong

Idk

[fast dew]

I wouldnt say a sentient has any real deep understanding of the void

We dont even fully know how she was able to stand out in the sanctum for so long

[hollow trench]

But she helps us no?

She’s able to interact with our warframes at certain points like overcharging the systems in the tutorial

Old example but still

Sentients lose the ability to procreate when exposed to the void
Unless the damage goes far beyond that alone

[fast dew]

It goes further, it usually kills, iirc the sterilisation was a lessened result

[hollow trench]

She’s a special type of sentient too

[fast dew]

Eh? Hunhow was still damaged

[unique aspen]

Flashback Erra describes her as "'The Queen of the Aphids' with her Eye in the Void."

[hollow trench]

Yes

[fast dew]

Eyes in the void very well could be. The tenno

[unique aspen]

Only one eye, and they're already the aphids in the Queen of the Aphids title

[hollow trench]

The lotus is hiding something

Even roathe believes it’s weird

[pale cedar]

Roathe is just being paranoid

He doesn’t know Lotus like we do

[hollow trench]

He’s also orokin

Lived thru the empire

In some way shape or form knew about the Tenno and margulis by hearsay or other means

Granted it may not be a lot he knows

The warframes were made public at some point during the empire too

They weren’t kept secret the whole time

[pale cedar]

He was kidnapped before Lotus was even our coordinator

[hollow trench]

I stand corrected🥀

It is odd tho

Lotus is hiding things still

[fast dew]

Oh i don't think its the lotus perse

I think its natah, idk why

[hollow trench]

Well Natah and the lotus are same?

[fast dew]

no, not really

they are the same as in the same body

[strange turtle]

Were the “same”

By the end of New War her personas as Natah, Lotus and Margulis are co-existing as three distinct identities

We choose one to be the main/leader, but the others are still there, presumably contributing to and influencing their decisions “behind the scenes”, if you know what I mean

[hollow trench]

That makes sense

[loud oriole]

instead of 3 raccoons in a trench coat, its 3 sentient minds in a sentient frame

[brave ingot]

i just heard my kuva lich say "yoink" which implies that the simpsons existed for several millennia in the warframe universe to the point that yoink kept its original meaning. has that been discussed before?

[silk atlas]

Lots of words survive for hundreds of years long after the original source died out

[strange turtle]

Instead of the Simpsons they had the
Uh
Nihilsons
And instead of yellow skin it was blue

[silk atlas]

Like, we know damn well the Orokin don't know who Nezha, Oberon or Titania are

[strange turtle]

I mean Ballas knew who Flare/Temple was to a degree, some stories surviving in their records isn’t too out there

[brave ingot]

i know its a game about space ninjas and all, but from a linguistic standpoint it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that the meaning has at least shifted. i do like the idea of both outcomes tho.
imagine yoink is just a random filler word 🤣

[silk atlas]

Well, he made Temple's serum, but it's not like he was gonna know Flare was going to turn into Temple

[north jolt]

Maybe she herself made a deal with Wally at some point? she might be afraid he's looking to come and collect

[unique aspen]

I always had the impression that Lotus was built/born weird, innately open to the Void like how Adis has his healing singing, but I don't think there's anything to really suggest that over anything else.

[fast dew]

Song is powerful for the sentients

The lotus sang to keep wally away iirc

[strange plinth]

mhm
she heard the void's song and drowned it out with her own

[unique aspen]

So much fascinating stuff with the Sentients... really excited to see how Tau will go

[strange turtle]

No, Temple as in the stage persona

[dark compass]

Lizzie's creation makes you ask whether the guitar was accounted for in the original strain or not

Because otherwise is it just a simple heat frame

[silk atlas]

He was?

[silk atlas]

I imagine Temple would come with the guitar regardless. Just happened that Lizzie got to use Flare's guitar to shortcut a bit of the process

[loud oriole]

Lizzie comes with Temple/Flare just like how Uno came with my xbox

[hollow trench]

Uno never came with thexbox silly

[ashen pulsar]

i feel like the temple we know was heavily influenced by flare

[silk atlas]

Gonna have to ask about the specifics of "influence" here, since Ballas knew it was made with rebellion in mind, and making a weapon from the frame itself isn't hard.

[strange plinth]

according to flare, albrecht said the batch would help with their performances. that implies that the guitar, though not necessarily lizzie, would be included imo
lizzie's origin kinda contradicts that, though, being made via flare bleeding on their existing guitar

[stiff beacon]

Managed to get loid up stairs despite anathema status with roathe

Lyon came in clutch

[ashen pulsar]

the way it looks, as well as lizzie's creation and fixation on flare

[ashen pulsar]

could this not refer to the rest of temple's kit, which is pretty fixated on music?

[late isle]

What if Rells donda is like a void key of sorts? Or prison key for Wally?

[topaz pawn]

pretty sure it's just some kind of instrument

Rell used to help himself focus

[humble sierra]

Yeah it's kinda like a fidget spinner

[dawn shuttle]

Me on the zariman winning the fidget toy competition until rell pulls out the donda

[midnight ice]

going toy for toy is crazy. wtf y'all doing in the zariman pre-void jump

[dawn shuttle]

Feigning sickness to get out of playing lunaro

[proper barn]

@topaz pawn @late isle it's a fidget item.

For him to stim with.

which

stimming is totally acceptable you should do it. it's great.

[midnight ice]

everybody should start stimming now. peace and love on planet earth

[proper barn]

true.

[late isle]

Sorry, was not trying to be insensitive it was just an interesting Idea

[proper barn]

You weren't lmao

[restive willow]

I saw on Tiktok something about a memorial. Never in my two years of playing have I seen it. What is it for

[drowsy saddle]

The DataReaper memorial in Iron Wake?

[restive willow]

I think so yea

[drowsy saddle]

Its in honor of a fan artist who created Clem

[restive willow]

Ah okay I see

[tall echo]

Also creator of the kronen

[turbid merlin]

Oh god. I just realized... Ballas orchestrated the conditions for Margulis' apostasy. He literally gave her the motivation to commit the crime she was executed for...

Ballas framed the Tenno for destroying the Old Peace, which forced Margulis into the position of taking the actions that got her executed.

[pale cedar]

He’s also the reason Naga Drums happened

90% of things in Warframe are Ballas doing things

[fast dew]

9% is Albrecht and 1% is us

[pale cedar]

If you think about it it’s 8% Albrecht 1% frame 1% us

[fast dew]

Ykwhat, that is true

[hot bone]

||i thought Nitokh and Roathe were the reason for the old peace failing. Ballas just took advantage of their plot? Is this not truee||

[drowsy saddle]

Nah, he deliberately changed the codes we were given

[karmic roost]

There’s a question I’ve been thinking about for a little bit, and I can’t remember if there was ever an indication of an answer (it’s been years since I played the “early” game).

Was the operator / tenno able to verbally communicate before the Second Dream? Or were they essentially mute until that point?

[opaque zenith]

There is dialogue prompts since before, but that could fall into narrative-gameplay dissonance.
Or you can headcanon the warframe doing some interpretive dance

[tall echo]

The latter

[pale cedar]

They were asleep in a pod since the Old War thus couldn’t speak

[turbid merlin]

One of Alad's various insults for us I think was "Mute Peasants"

Or something to that effect.

[pale cedar]

Yeah, he doesn’t know about Tenno or that we can talk through the frames

[fluid pewter]

There’s a lot of lore and dialogue referencing the operator being stoic and often not responding, mostly from Alad V

[karmic roost]

I appreciate the responses. I like to imagine that we were just running a constant Garfield or Snoopy internal monologue then lol

[ocean geyser]

I wonder if he knows we exist now

or does he still think the Warframes themselves are Tenno

[pale cedar]

He had to run because of the Acolytes before he ever saw Operator

So he never learnt the truth

[ocean geyser]

Damn
Yeah fair he’d probably get up so some nonsense if he knew

[pale cedar]

He probably suspects something

[ocean geyser]

Do we just refuse to talk to him even still then
To keep the illusion

[pale cedar]

We just didn’t tell him because keeping it a secret is safer

[ocean geyser]

Yeah fair

Got me wondering how many characters know the Operator exists

Like
Probably Kuva Grineer
Parvos

I think the Ostrons know now

Little Duck too

[pale cedar]

I don’t think Parvos knows

Generally it’s a need to know secret

[ocean geyser]

Yeah fair
Although he probably will eventually given how he keeps accosting the Zariman with his troops

Figures he’d hear from his people “hey boss this dude came out of the warframe”

That said i personally think we should recieve transmissions from Worm and Parvos while in Zariman missions

[pale cedar]

Wally knows
All Orokin were privy to it seemingly
Lotus knows because mission coordinator
Margulis knew
Pallandino knows because Rell
Rell knew because he was a Tenno
Amp sellers force it but probably never share it

Oh and Teshin knows

Think that’s as far as the secret goes

[ocean geyser]

My reasoning for the Ostrons knowing is because New War
And at minimum, Konzu should know because he hits us with the “Ai yo…. Has it really been so long?” If you play as Drifter

[pale cedar]

Yeah

[ocean geyser]

Dude thought we grew up

[pale cedar]

Wait I missed Hunhow and Loid

They also know

[ocean geyser]

Ah yeah

Ngl that reminds me

How come we never had operator dialogue during Whispers?

Maybe it was budget thing

[pale cedar]

Might’ve just been the VA’s were busy

[ocean geyser]

That’s possible too

[pale cedar]

Actually

They weren’t

Because Wally was speaking

[ocean geyser]

Yeah

Ngl
I’d fully believe it was just “hey guys what do we make the operator say”
“Ngl idk”

I’d find that reasonable

[pale cedar]

Would’ve just been saying very little lines anyway

Mostly just stuff to Loid

[ocean geyser]

Fair

[strange turtle]

0.5% kullervo, 0.5% frame

[waxen mesa]

Imagine if kullervo didn't screw up

[tiny saddle]

Found this image on Facebook

lol

[ocean geyser]

People have been theorizing she has some relatiobto Garuda

Wally pogging freaks me out tho

[restive river]

I want there to be a connection and even I think this is a stretch lmao

[fast dew]

A stronger one is the title similarities imo

[burnt dome]

i have a question

how fast is lore gauss prime?

[ocean geyser]

Someone sped up his trailer footage by a bunch
But he’s capable of moving fast enough to turn a bullet in midair so yk

[tall echo]

There is no lore aside from the nothingburger prime trailer

Regular gauss has lore tho, he can outrun mine explosions

[restive river]

Very

[strange turtle]

Faster Than A Speeding Bullet

-# TM

[pale cedar]

A number higher than 1

[burnt dome]

thanks for the info

[wispy cradle]

Where does the old peace sit in the lore?

[fading mist]

in the middle of the old war

[wispy cradle]

Before or after the zariman?

[pale cedar]

After

[fading mist]

longgggg after

[pale cedar]

If it was before you wouldn’t have Void powers

[cerulean ferry]

Wouldn’t be able to control frames without the void

[fading mist]

I wonder if we were to repair the zariman, could it at least get the void jump function back

[restive river]

Sometime during the old war, likely towards the end

[wispy cradle]

Granted, but the capability of transference, least when we got Uriel, shouldn't have been possible, unless we always had it in the first place.

[restive river]

Can’t
It needs to plug the void hole

But also Yonta does know how to get to Tau if we could do it again

[fading mist]

then just, break it apart, and use it standalone

[restive river]

It’s always been innate, it was just sealed away with our trauma after the Old Peace

[pale cedar]

Nothing says it can’t actually jump now it’s just serving a more important purpose

[restive river]

Transference has always been an innate ability of the tenno, it’s how transference was discovered and recreated through tech.

[wispy cradle]

Now that I can behind. So in that case, if it was set after? What would have been the difference from our first jump to the second one?

Would we be fair to say that the Zariman was Sabotaged?

[restive river]

It likely was by Wally

Wdym if it was set after?

[wispy cradle]

If the zariman incident was set after the old peace

[restive river]

It
Wouldn’t be lol

[pale cedar]

It literally can’t be

[restive river]

Without the tenno the Orokin and humanity fall to the Sentients

[fading mist]

depends on how much you mean
it was sabotaged from the very beginning

[restive river]

Not from the very beginning, no?

Unless you mean Wally scheming
But the Zariman failing wasn’t some ploy from the Orokin

[fast dew]

Why would Tuvul do that to himself lmao

[wispy cradle]

So if the zariman incident was before, and then we jumped again after we got out of the zariman?

[restive river]

The Orokin didn’t help when the situation got bad but that’s about it, the actual incident was due to Wally more than likely

[fast dew]

The executors are all arrogant bastards, any hit to his ego would be horrid

[cerulean ferry]

Yes

[tall echo]

Using a rail, yes

[fast dew]

I wonder if Yonta will be involved with tau....

[fading mist]

the crew and orokin rigged some things, but its not certain was it really for the jump to go wrong or something else

[restive river]

The crew sabotaged things in defiance
Not so much the Orokin beyond not helping

[fading mist]

combination of both, I suppose

[fast dew]

I think it was Tuvul ordering them to do shit in one big jump, right?

[restive river]

As for what actually caused the jump to fail, nothing specifically says what caused it but it was more than likely Wally

[restive river]

He was rushing them yes

[fading mist]

but yonta said, it was never meant to be a big jump

[restive river]

When does she say that :?

[fast dew]

It was one big jump, which i feel was a bad idea, right? I could be recalling wrongly

[restive river]

It was yes

[fading mist]

it was meant to be small jumps, but for some reason it was changed to a big leap, anddd that went wrong

[fast dew]

Do you mean her theory on how to get to it now? That was the little jumps part....

[fading mist]

not that one

[fast dew]

I think, im not too familiar on holdfast lore

[restive river]

Can you source when she said that?

[pale cedar]

Yonta just said she figured out the correct way to do it being the smaller jumps

[fast dew]

Which is ironic considering how close the zariman was to Albrecht and his whole deal

[fading mist]

can't remember, zariman update was so long ago

[restive river]

Use the search function

https://www.orokinarchives.com

[fast dew]

Shameless orokin archives plug smh

[restive river]

Better than the wiki

[fading mist]

how do I use this thing

[restive river]

Click on the spyglass to search

[pale cedar]

Same way you use any website

[fast dew]

Hey wait ducky/nemesis youre missing your server tag, one of yall had it right?

[pale cedar]

Huh?

[restive river]

(if the Tenno is rank Angel) "I'd figured it out! How the Zariman could jump all the way to Tau in one big bold leap, disabling the safeties in sequence. If I had it to do again, we could make it."

[fast dew]

:(

[restive river]

Might be a discord issue, I’ll look into it

[fading mist]

ah

I guess I was remembering it a little off

[restive river]

Yonta knew better but the plan was always a big one

Orokin moment to just go big and not listen to their scientists lmao

[fading mist]

all the time

[fast dew]

That happens a lot yeah

Especially void scientists

But hey once they prove useful they'll make you a portrait

[restive river]

He was already an Orokin lmao

He could just ask for a portrait