lore-discussion

[tall echo]

Also not exactly

[waxen mesa]

im not restarting this whole debate so imma just say

if you want to see my opinoin there's an hours worth of chats

i think I sufficently covered it

[strong viper]

Quick question, is there a confirmed amount of time Operator was in the second dream?

[tall echo]

Only transferenced out later bc the hunhullus was still holding us

[tall echo]

At least 1000 years

[waxen mesa]

no, not beyond "thousands of years"

[strong viper]

Good enough estimate. Was wondering where that puts them in age along with Drifter, who if I recall, just grew up in Duviri, then got executed a lot.

[tall echo]

In realspace they'd be the same age

[waxen mesa]

anyway I think my theory holds water if you read the hour of chats.

If we did transfer out when Adis still had hunhullus on, then I think it's easier to explain that then everything else. maybe thats just me being sick of theory crafting tho

[swift sentinel]

Chronologically they're the same age, Drifter is obviously biologically older

[waxen mesa]

debateable

[tall echo]

Time in the void, and especially in duviri, is a bit sideways

[waxen mesa]

but pedantics wise

it depends on who you are asking

Drifter was reliving the same time over and over

[strong viper]

Void time is sketchy, and debatable if cryosleep for 1000 years counts.

So either or ig

[swift sentinel]

How, same birth date, same current year = chronologically the same age, irrelevant to the subjective time they experianced.

[waxen mesa]

via pedantics

who is chronologically older

Person A: lived from 2000-3000

Person b: lived the year 2000 1000 times

[swift sentinel]

that's not how chronological age works

[waxen mesa]

thats why im saying pedantics

[strong viper]

Duviri didn't progress very far in terms of time. Drifter just became an adult (say, fifteen years, whatever), then continually reset to the same time. Chronologically, Operator is way older.

[tall echo]

Semantics pedantics wasteoftimes

[waxen mesa]

is it semantics?

[swift sentinel]

that's subjective time, not chronological time

[waxen mesa]

maybe i was saying the wrong word

[tall echo]

Yes

[waxen mesa]

Point is I'm being difficult for no reason

[tall echo]

Relatable

[waxen mesa]

on the definition of chronological age

[strong viper]

Warframe is confusing even on the simplest questions

[swift sentinel]

Both are chronologically some teens + a thousand-ish, but both experienced a different amount of subjective time due to cryosleep and time resets

[strong viper]

Also question, is there lore behind Excalibur Umbral Prime, or is that just pure fanservice for the Chinese audience?

[waxen mesa]

but Drifter relived the same time, then wormholed to present day

Drifter was stuck in the past for a majority of their perception

[swift sentinel]

Irrelevant to their chronologic age

[peak ether]

Just Chinese founder exclusive

[waxen mesa]

is Kaya the same chronological age as the Operator/Drifter then?

er.. about the same moreor lress

[strong viper]

It's also debatable if time actually did reset, or only in relevance to Duviri while the rest of the universe proceeded. No outside source to confirm it, Drifter's universe is just gone.

[swift sentinel]

no, she's 19

[wise quiver]

Define "age" Darvo is like 102? 100+ years and still considered a 'young adult' more or less.

[tall echo]

No because she skipped the time inbetween

[swift sentinel]

she useed time travel which skips any question

[waxen mesa]

so when SHE wormholes to the future, that's different then when Drifter did it?

[swift sentinel]

drifter didn't do that

[waxen mesa]

they were caught in a time loop

1999 isn't happening past 1999

[strong viper]

Kaya is 1999 ish time period. Drifter/operator is prime orokin empire + 1000 years.

[tall echo]

It didn't affect realspace

[waxen mesa]

it's happening at 1999. over and over forever

[waxen mesa]

that's why my point is that it depends on who you ask

[swift sentinel]

Drifter was resetting, not looping, Kaya doesn't keep her memories

[waxen mesa]

an origin system's resident would have a different answer then a Duviri one. because they both experienced different time

[waxen mesa]

I disagree that it wasn't a time loop

when drifter does the FIRST 1999 loop they are told "your loop has changed"

[tall echo]

Resetting a loop

[waxen mesa]

because there was a period of time the Drifter's loop was Duviri

[swift sentinel]

Difference being Drifter kept their memories in Duviri, and in 1999 Kaya doesn't. That means Drifter kept experianceing time moving forward, even though events were reset on their death.

[tall echo]

Oh it's not referring to that

[strong viper]

I like how the round table members all had their own reasons for not rizzing up with Drifter. Kaya is a kid with a bad past, isn't at all interested, and Velimir+Minerva are already a thing.

[tall echo]

The 1999 loop was only 1 day before drifter showed up

[strong viper]

And Flare has... Lizzie.

[waxen mesa]

oh whatever i'm really sick of theory right now. imma go play that game i launcehd a loooong time ago

[tall echo]

Kaya is legally an adult in like 99% of the world

But yes she does have trauma

[strong viper]

Fantasy world, fantasy laws, can't say what age of consent is, nee ner nee ner.

[tall echo]

That only works in the "present", not 1999

[strong viper]

Sooo... Age of consent for Hollvania?

[waxen mesa]

WAIT A SECOND

I WATCHED THE DING DANG OLD PEACE VIDEO

We do not transfer out of excal prime until AFTER Hunhullus loses the light

theres a distinctive flash before we transfer out

[tall echo]

European so presumably 18

[waxen mesa]

anyway thats it im playing my game now >:I

[ashen pulsar]

oh?

when

[waxen mesa]

granted it flashes a lot but

there was a lot of emphasis on this one

ugh hold on

https://youtu.be/Rr3LnnTETso?t=4558

also we dont see Adis leave it. he walks out towards us like he was already out before we were

[ashen pulsar]

the flash looks like us in void form falling

[waxen mesa]

no not that

immediately at the time stamp

musical sting

[ashen pulsar]

the fade?

[brittle siren]

No, Hunhullus is still flashing even when we are already out

[late isle]

Gameplay aside, which frames do you think would just kill the stalker outright? I think Kullervo would be the one to do it, I have this picture in my head of one of kullervos knives in the decapitated head of the stalker

[dark compass]

Kullervo will just do the saitama thing with a plastic spoon

Stalker is in giblets, he is unamused

[late isle]

Stalker: "your sentence is death" Kullervo: "I was just thinking the same thing"

[dark compass]

Given that he's afraid to even alert Ordis in that one jade shadows part

He knows he has long been outscaled in killing power lmao

[late isle]

he might be scared of Ordon more than ordis

[dark compass]

Ordan is largely gone so

I will choose the funnier option

That little Cephalon pod can kick his ass

[late isle]

Fair point

Kullervo and Ordon would be drinking buddies

[brittle siren]

not really, he is a sneaky frame, he seem does not care when Ordis want to eject him

so he could just brute force in but he just want to be aura farming

also he may not want our OP to summon their warframe

[dark compass]

No it's just like in that one dragon ball scene where vegito turned into candy

https://tenor.com/view/super-buu-dragon-ball-z-dbz-majin-buu-gif-13740130

This is what Ordis will do to Stalker

[brittle siren]

unrelated, but it's funny that Buu was consdiered as biggest threat even to Kaioshin, and then Beerus arrive outscale Buu 1 million times more

[dark compass]

Power scaling in dragon ball became a joke only because it has been established in the first place

The core idea of "you're gonna get bodied but if you work on yourself hard enough you can punch god in the face even if you are an absolute nobody" has always been the strongest part of db

I'm really glad Goku was never some divine heir shit

Unlike 99% of other shonens

[brittle siren]

still sad that Akira is no longer with us, even though his power scaling isn't good (after the Multiverse Tournament)

[dark compass]

He is just a monkey with brain damage

[brittle siren]

He want to solo everyone but up until now Beerus still stronger

[dark compass]

Doesn't matter

Eventually, with enough training, he will get there

And he won't need to be born special to reach it

[brittle siren]

well Akira is dead so I doubt the story forward, no one in the main cast stronger than Beerus

[dark compass]

I don't care about powerscaling as much as I care about the philosophical core of it

Toriyama always preserved it but now idk what's gonna happen now

[brittle siren]

Love his artsyle

anyway warframe

[dark compass]

Powerscaling means nothing in the larger narrative context of "you'll get there eventually and shortcuts aren't going to take you far against those who actually work for it"

Right, warframe

[brittle siren]

btw what is your avatar character?

[dark compass]

Scholar from Elden Ring Nightreign DLC

Darkness skin specifically

[brittle siren]

he looks cool

[dark compass]

The skin specifically

[coral mirage]

i was about to say, we have a Soulsframe?

[dark compass]

No, that's Elden Ring Nightreign

We were talking about dragon ball, decided to return on topic and then went off topic again

[coral mirage]

lol, happens all the time

[loud oriole]

i mean, we do have soulframe but that is nothing close to a souls-like other than slower melee combat and a health potion system

[strong viper]

So I'm a bit confused by Roathe's backstory, so if someone could clarify (spoilers, obviously)
||Roathe mentioned that all of his soldiers were used in the creation of the various copies of Uriel chained across Tau. Are the soldiers the copies of Uriel? Or are they the demons accompanying it? And if the former, who are the demons?||

[strange plinth]

his soldiers became the Uriels themselves
the conscripts/demons (gulphagor and the other two i don't remember) seem to just be part of the abilities, as both Roathe and the Uriel we use in the quest have them. not sure if they are particularly significant

[strong viper]

I would imagine so. Even more considering they're part of his helminth ability (minus one). I'm also curious as for the story behind "Uriel Prime."

[ashen pulsar]

in 3 years

maybe 4

[strange plinth]

Roathe Will Die In 4 Years /s

[strong viper]

Uriel Prime is actually Wallivur William's son, Wall-ter White

[gentle isle]

kinda wild roathe just namedrops uriel prime so quickly lol

[waxen mesa]

All of this soldiers were turned into Uriel.

[humble sierra]

Uriel Prime has more lore in -4 years than Garuda has since 2017

[waxen mesa]

the original was seemingly someone important to Roathe

[gentle isle]

i feel so bad for yall garuda players lmao

[waxen mesa]

we'll get garuda lore, they are setting up for it unless DE is the ultimate troll

I mean if we're gonna be getting protoframes then we'll probably get nitokh garuda

[strong viper]

Uriel Prime, in the way he described it, is someone he loathed beyond all degree, which is saying something considering he considered Ballas a pretty mid tier evil Orokin.

[humble sierra]

I wouldn't be surprised if the plans for Uriel Prime is for him to be a separate Protoframe

[waxen mesa]

i can't wait to get Uriel prime in 4 years and traumatize Roathe

[strong viper]

Can't wait for Kullervo Prime and change nothing because he's still OP for clearing the star chart.

But dang if he won't look more fabulous doing it

[gentle isle]

got kully a while back and helminthed him cuz giving wrathful to excal sounded too fun lol

[swift gyro]

What would take to make dark sector canon on 1999? like, if something happend on warframe or dark sector to become canon on warframe universe

[wind ruin]

A complete revision of the Warframe universe from scratch.

[gentle isle]

yea p much

[wind ruin]

Dark Sector was very much a 'getting funds/proof of concept' game.

[gentle isle]

i'm not sure when dark sector takes place but i'm p sure dark sector happens after 1999 in its respective timeline

[wind ruin]

As such, it did not get more than a minimal story treatment and major elements of the setup contradict current development.

[gentle isle]

so they'd have to retcon 1999 or introduce another alternate universe to make dark sector canon

and it'd be a shoddy job at best

[wind ruin]

And then they'd have to retcon the Orokin Empire. The Infestation. And everything else.

So, uh, no.

[strange plinth]

iirc all he said about Uriel Prime is that he would keep his name to himself until he was on his deathbed, as it was the only thing that felt real

[restive river]

Oh I can for sure see this-

[drowsy saddle]

A reddit post made me think about ballas' dialogue in Yareli's prime trailer.

If Yareli didn't ragebait ballas so hard that he warframe'd her. Ballas likely would have Continuity'd into Yareli, meaning there was a possible timeline before Wally destroyed them all, that we faced a fem ballas

[restive river]

it would have to not be a piece of fiction in-game

[drowsy saddle]

I mean, isn't the in game DE making "War Sector"

[strange plinth]

assuming that he didn't resculpt it into a more masculine form, yea

[restive river]

We have the dark sector book and movie
War Sector is mostly in reference to the very early Warframe prototype

[gentle isle]

i don't care if he looks cute i'm still killin him

[restive river]

I believe it predates Dark Sector?

[restive river]

I can see this happening with nitokh

[drowsy saddle]

Yeah but imagine all his new war dialogue coming out of the face and voice of a sk8ter girl

[restive river]

Ooo pretty lady
Oh she’s
Awful

[restive river]

It would still be his inflection

[drowsy saddle]

PISS WARM COMFORT

[strange plinth]

• voice might stick around somehow? Roathe mentions recognizing albrecht's voice, not his face, and that it wasn't particularly unusual

[restive river]

Orokin modifying themselves moment

[gentle isle]

maybe i'll make him continuity into something else

[drowsy saddle]

A pobber

[gentle isle]

an animal with no opposable thumbs

yea

[drowsy saddle]

The kuaka in a cage we can buy from Master Teasonai

[restive river]

That’s animal abuse

[gentle isle]

then i'll infect it, let it hang out on deimos for a bit, then give it to Son

[drowsy saddle]

Its sacrifice will not be in vain

[restive river]

a poor pobber doesn’t deserve death just so we can torture balldas

[swift gyro]

what did she do?

[fast dew]

Iirc looked at kuva 💀

[swift gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/fnaf-freddy-shock-surprised-what-gif-3394698350590564214

[gentle isle]

was that all? p sure she disrespected the whole ceremony

probably threw gang signs at the seven or something

[fast dew]

Mm, he comments on the face itself, not so much the voice. Im unsure if changing skintone would make him completely unrecognisable but skin and hair change certainly could

[swift gyro]

she pulled a gun water and shoot at orokin

[strange plinth]

she's supposedly the servant girl that swapped the kuva in the bluva story (which got her turned into a yuvan) + she was unprofessional during the yuvan ceremony (which got her helminth'd)

[gentle isle]

wait that was her? dang

[fast dew]

Prolly why grandma mentions the bluva story then

[gentle isle]

she was badass even then

[strange plinth]

Roathe: But I have flashes. Shattered bits and pieces of a golden hallway. A voice I recognized - but not a face. It was Albrecht, but not the one I knew.

hm. where'd i get the second bit? it isn't in the convo that ^ is from

[fast dew]

No bcs I somewhat remember what you mean

What the hell😭

[strange plinth]

mm, vm 21
Roathe: I remember now. He approached me, in the Golden Halls. He wore a face I did not know. But that is not so very unusual for our kind. I knew his voice. I knew the way he moved.

[fast dew]

Albrecht moves in a way that's recognisable 😭 what in the childhood trauma is that

[strange plinth]

how often did roathe see albrecht that he could recognize his movements-

[fast dew]

-# an explanation, children w traumatic experiences can often recognise walking patterns of people by sound alone

[fast dew]

Albrecht must like. Walk a lot, and a lot in front of Roathe 😭

[swift gyro]

bro put a treadmil infront of roathe guys, chill.

[brittle siren]

and the whole company was infected by techrot or sth like that

[fast dew]

Id get if it was Loid, loid walks in a very identifiable way, but only bcs of his hands and how he holds them

[brittle siren]

but I mean DE make a whole ARG and put DE (in-game) to be important there

[fast dew]

I still love that Loid checks his nails even while wearing his gloves

I wonder why he wears gloves....

[restive river]

?
I mean yeah DE in-universe was part of the ARG, they were making War Sector which was just a further nod to how 1999 was referencing Warframe’s roots

[fast dew]

Maybe he has issues with picking at his nails? He looks like he does
-# projecting

[restive river]

This is War Sector

https://youtu.be/Okqa8BYkRHI?si=S6dfvX4fCG3bEoSu

[brittle siren]

also why he touching his mouth a lot and stretching it downward during his idle

[restive river]

Which I could absolutely see War Sector in-universe being a Dark Sector inspired game
It’s ofc not what’s actually happening here but I can see a narrative being spun that is that

[fast dew]

Tired
-# I also rub my face a lot for sensory reasons idk

[brittle siren]

I just realize DE was founded in 1993

[fast dew]

Heh.

Doom 1993 is the same age as them

[dark compass]

Unreal tournament

[restive river]

Y’know watching this again
Hayden Tenno looks like an Excal but utilizes abilities from Volt (the shield), Mag (maybe, he magnetizes a gun to his hand) and Nyx (controls the Jackal)

[fast dew]

It looks so much like doom 3 and I love it

[brittle siren]

imagine if our OP canon name is Hayden

[fast dew]

Early game engines and whatnot

[fast dew]

I mean, our operator? Best we got is Mara, which isnt even canon, just a placeholder

[brittle siren]

also is Warframe use their own engine?

[brittle siren]

and Ayatan

[restive river]

Your canon name is your username
The internal name is Mara
Hayden only works for male tenno, which not everyone is
Same issue with Mara but it could be gender neutral?

[brittle siren]

I think Ayatan is the best name we could get

[fast dew]

Mm, iirc it was originally a heavily modified version of... I think either unreal or smthn

I aint sure

[restive river]

Mara does seem to be the name of the cinematic tenno we see a lot, the devs recognizes her off that name recently so
Close enough lol

[fast dew]

I'm only super into doom and idtech

[brittle siren]

btw, does the new war cinematic (one that Mara incinerated a Grineer with void beam) contradict with the lore like the opening cutscene?

[restive river]

How so?

[brittle siren]

I'm just curious, not making any statement

[fast dew]

The opening cutscene can just be discarded when regarding canon

[restive river]

I’m not sure how it would so

[restive river]

Yeah it’s non-canon, more so an interpretation of what happened if anything ig

You could say the same for the other cinematics made by Sumo that aren’t direct quests or content in-game

[brittle siren]

funny that Nova in lore can just open portal ANYWHERE, but ingame it just one way through

[restive river]

I mean in lore the frames are much more powerful

[brittle siren]

and being limited by LoS too

[restive river]

Like infinite energy for example

[fast dew]

Don't let the powerscalers hear this shhh

[brittle siren]

Equinox still week in lore that even Stalker can kill her 🥀 /s

[restive river]

He kills a lot of frames
But it’s embarrassing that it’s only her prime’s head on a spike

[brittle siren]

"Grendel can eat the universe" still live rent free in my memory

[fast dew]

NOOO

WHERE IS THAT

[strange plinth]

one of the level designers must have something against her /s

[fast dew]

MY GIRL NO 💔

[brittle siren]

his lair

[fast dew]

Have you seen her deluxe? The whole team hates her 💔

[restive river]

I would too if I saw that deluxe

[brittle siren]

at least in Wisp idle it still shown her alt form

that the only cool thing about her tbh

ah I remember that a long time ago ppl debating if her Night form is male and Day form is female

[restive river]

Nah both female

[fast dew]

They're just two lesbians in the butch/femme dynamic

-# Im sorry.

[strange plinth]

horrific image quality but its the first one i've actually found

[fast dew]

Oh my god 😭

Love low quality images

[brittle siren]

let me hop into the game and get an HD image

[strange plinth]

please do lol

[fast dew]

I wonder where the image of the cars Albrecht has in his labs is

Its crunchy

[brittle siren]

car?

[fast dew]

Albrecht has car/s in the labs in a big ol glass enclosure iirc

[brittle siren]

or you mean the train trap

[fast dew]

The cars appear and disappear

[brittle siren]

huh, never noticed that

[fast dew]

No I do mean whole ass cars

[brittle siren]

maybe he steal from 1999

[fast dew]

Why do you think I was talking about Albrecht stealing cars 😭

FOUND ONE

From a mate

Deadass got cars

[restive river]

Olo spotted

[fast dew]

Man I really hope DE realises

[restive river]

Idek what they’d do with it

[fast dew]

... the word is suspiciously close to oro

[restive river]

It’s like literally just a cool coincidence lol
At most we’d maybe get more lines like Cy’s color thing but that kinda perfects it

[brittle siren]

strange that we dont have a captura for this

[fast dew]

Yeah you'd think it would be nice to see

But uhm

Albrecht steals shit

So based of him

[brittle siren]

also what is Olo

[fast dew]

Its a colour that we can't perceive iirc

[restive river]

That goes for oh so many tiles

[restive river]

Imaginary color

[restive river]

It’s perceivable under very specific circumstances

[fast dew]

Mm, neat.

[restive river]

“Olo is an imaginary color that can be seen by shooting lasers into the retina to isolate the response of M cone cells.”

“It is impossible to view olo under normal viewing conditions, due to the overlapping sensitivities of M cone cells and S and L cone cells in all wavelengths of visible light that evoke them. In other words, there is no monochromatic stimulus (the purest type of stimulus that humans can perceive) that activates only the M cones. This means that olo is outside the visible gamut. To get around this, researchers mapped a portion of the retina and individually identified each cone cell as either an S, M, or L cone. They then used lasers to deliver tiny doses of light, ideally, exclusively to the M cone cells.”

Most chromatic color inside the sRGB gamut that has a similar hue to olo

This color has a 99% match to one of the colors in the Ki’Teer color palette which is inspired by the void
The color does appear sometimes in relation to the void too but ofc the void has a handful of bluegreens associated with it

Sometimes just blues lmao

[strange plinth]

funny how close that is to the primary colors of the void
fits, too

[fast dew]

Its just a really weird coincidence that void looks so similar

[restive river]

It’s very funny cause the color was discovered recently, matches up with the void and is an “imaginary color”

Like

(when attempting to interact with Reliquary Drive, variant) Cephalon Cy: "Crew. A colour you have never seen – imagine it. That is where you are."

Olo is that color
Olo is the void

[fast dew]

Its deadass such a weird coincidence

[restive river]

It’s literally the most insane thing ever

As far as I know I’m the only one to figure this out

It means absolutely nothing but is just an insane coincidence

[fast dew]

Genuinely just an insane coincidence and I hope DE makes someone acknowledge it

[restive river]

Yeah as far as I can tell I’m the first to discover this, not finding anything on google at least

[fast dew]

Go make a reddit post twin, be important

[restive river]

I mean tbh idk what they’d even do, they’ll continue to use the color without realizing and Cy’s line about an imaginary color is already perfect for it

[restive river]

Reddit

[brittle siren]

Tau skybox prob

[restive river]

That single star suggests otherwise
What is this from?

[fast dew]

Idk get loid to mention something about it like. Researching the effect techrot had on the 2000s 😭

[restive river]

I mean maybe ig

[fast dew]

Im spitballing man

I aint good at this shit

I write fanfic not lore 💔

[brittle siren]

from this

[restive river]

Ah
Well that’s def the Tau skybox then since you can see the binary stars in the thumbnail
I’m gonna assume that bright yellow star is the origin system tho, wild that it’s that close that they can see it effecting the gas

Makes me wonder how close Tau actually is

[fast dew]

Lore....

[restive river]

I know we typically don’t get exacts but I’m hoping that through whatever way we get to Tau we get to know how far it is from the origin system

But maybe they want it ambiguous idk

[brittle siren]

better view

[restive river]

I wanna pick the brains of the skybox creators

It seems like an art in of itself

That yellow star has gotta be the origin system though right???

[brittle siren]

also there is 2 other star beside the binary one

and this cluster of sth

it does mirror Albrecht's Tau map a bit

[restive river]

Ok i retract my theory on it being the origin system lmao

[brittle siren]

heh I can stand on Natah now

also she now looking at you when you go near her

also what the hell is this

[fast dew]

I think thats a water reflection?????

[brittle siren]

it make slurpy sound

[restive river]

We see these elsewhere in the labs
More Orokin biotech

[brittle siren]

lmao instant ban

[hushed parcel]

crazy there's no option to call her Mommy

yea i said it

I'm not lying nor trying to deny it

[fast dew]

Ew.

[west oasis]

You went with the natah option?

[brittle siren]

Yeah

[bright temple]

🤢

[fast dew]

Even ballas don't like that

[wise eagle]

What’s wrong with natah?

[west oasis]

It is just the rarely picked one

[west oasis]

In your defense she is out adoptive mother

Butt I don't think you mean it in a innocent way

[wise eagle]

I picked it

[west oasis]

Hug lotus options when

[wise eagle]

True

[placid warren]

500 Toxin Eximus be upon ye

[wise eagle]

https://tenor.com/view/anakin-star-wars-the-council-council-gif-2813685367326375101

[keen latch]

I wonder why the infestation doesn't evolve/produce more technological weapons it has access to. Sure it knows how various guns work via the mutalisk strain and whatnot.
Imagine the doozy of a surprise when they decide to develop a coilgun or similar.

To be fair they do have scary ranged attacks like bioplasma and whatnot. Still though, I'm sure if it found the need for it, it could innovate.

[proper barn]

Helminth does do that.

Also helmith at least sees through all Time at once which while horrifying tells us that it can pull from any time seemingly or at least it can observe any of them.

[drowsy saddle]

Its a question of efficiency, how much energy does the infestation need to pour in to get a certain result

Claws and teeth are incredibly efficient

Building a coil gun out of biological material? Less so

[lilac aspen]

No need to build a gun that vaporizes people when I can just swarm them with an army of claws and teeth

Efficiency

Especially since the moment the virus is there, it ain’t ever going away outside of extreme measures

They can just play the waiting game

[signal minnow]

allow me to offer a counter:

they're cool

[lilac aspen]

Okay but this a kingdom building game
I rather not spend my 5000 iron for the Arcane Coil of annihilation when I can summon 50000 scrimblos instead

..
Man the Infested really are playing one of those games

[jolly root]

So i have a question is oraxia made from rulsalkas body

[strange turtle]

No

Rusalka’s body is being possessed by Wally, Oraxia has nothing to do with her

[lilac aspen]

Oraxia existed before Rulsakla

[dark compass]

Ruraxia existed before Orsakla

https://tenor.com/view/cat-crazy-insane-dance-crazy-cat-gif-10287636470586960031

[strange turtle]

Oraxia was just a gen 1 frame loyal to Albrecht, then IIRC Wally copied him to get her to be hostile(?) when he claimed Duviri

[drowsy saddle]

Fairly sure wally used the fact that oraxia went feral after albrecht forgor about her and manipulated oraxia

[fast dew]

... Albrecht really has a bad history with women huh...

[drowsy saddle]

Iirc the wording WallSalka used was, "hungry"

[drowsy saddle]

And pets, so double whammy

Like seriously, Albrecht is bad with women, and neglectful with pets. Oraxia is both

[pale cedar]

He's just bad with humans in general tbh

[drowsy saddle]

Really not helping the tism allegations

[loud oriole]

-# wallsalka. im taking this to sit next to Wallbrecht in my head

[ocean geyser]

Figured that was just Margulis

[jolly root]

I was curious because she said her flesh was stolen

[drowsy jasper]

ready for the best take ever?

[drowsy saddle]

I should run isleweaver again to double check the voicelines, but fairly sure WallSalka is talking about her own body

[drowsy jasper]

Ballas should return

Ballas is the best

[jolly root]

Ill play uriel or umbra if he comes back

[loud oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-meme-bus-stop-angry-shouting-gif-5144560278104615828

[drowsy jasper]

May ballas return and the lotus get sent to the Jade light

[jolly root]

And hes gonna get another sword in his chest

[drowsy jasper]

ima protect him

[jolly root]

Good luck

[loud oriole]

and dangly arms to dangle off his new sentient arms

[drowsy jasper]

If it wasn't for ballas yall would be stuck around with a goofy amp running as the operator

all thanks to him

[jolly root]

And thanks to him the only peace between sentients and orokin was broken

[loud oriole]

we could have had a cool society with gigantic mechs, but ball arse said no

[jolly root]

Exactly

[drowsy jasper]

Ballas only wanted peace and love

thanks to margulis and lotus he became a monster and a bad person

[restive river]

(Find Oraxia's lair) Dominus Thrax: "Oraxia. The Scholar's pet. I heard the Usurper imitating his voice. The spider is her servant now."

[drowsy saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[drowsy jasper]

she left him over some parasites 😵‍💫

[jolly root]

Cough"bulsheisse"

[jolly root]

Hahahhaahha

[drowsy jasper]

All he wanted to do was destroy the devils he created and get peace but she wanted to keep the frames of war 🤓 see now whos bad?

[jolly root]

As a dictartorship he wanted peace

[loud oriole]

Warframes didnt exist before the Zariman incident

[restive river]

No they didnt what

[jolly root]

Also umbra did he have to do

[loud oriole]

oh myb

[jolly root]

I thought they did

[drowsy jasper]

He wanted to destroy the frames he created bc they were devilish

ballas only wanted to do good

[jolly root]

Cause the tenno tamed them

[restive river]

Timeline is
Sentients take long way
Orokin get impatient
Zariman is made
Zariman incident
Old war begins
Warframes are made to combat the sentients
Warframes fail as they go feral
Zariman returns
Transference discovered
Tenno pilot the frames

[drowsy jasper]

ballas only turned him into an umbra frame bc he spied on him see he deserved it

[woven coyote]

To be clear frames didnt exist before the zarimans departure

[restive river]

Oh wait I’m just tired

Yeah the frames didnt exist before the zariman itself as they were only invented during the old war

[drowsy jasper]

also to be clearrr the warframes were made for the dax soldiers to use them but they didnt fit so the operators started to use them bc they fit in them

[restive river]

Well thats just horribly inaccurate

[drowsy jasper]

its literally what ballas said

[woven coyote]

Wonder how long it takes for the little troll to get bored

[drowsy jasper]

they were made for dax

[jolly root]

No

[fast dew]

Gentle reminder that ballas says a lot of things that may or may not be true

[restive river]

The warframes aren’t suits people get into
They took Dax and turned them into the frames
The tenno were capable of soothing the frames as they had basic empathy

[drowsy jasper]

gentle reminder that Ballas never lies and he is the best

[fast dew]

https://tenor.com/view/cummins-gif-12535975135255283466

[restive river]

Bro thinks he’s as clever as Ballas

[drowsy jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-margulis-orokin-ballas-natah-gif-5544434714955435909

[woven coyote]

Eh just ignore the troll, they were probably being ignored in another chat

[drowsy saddle]

Someome call kahl

[dark compass]

Yeah, that chat was #warframe-general

[drowsy jasper]

the way im not even trolling i genuinely like ballas character 😭😭

[fast dew]

.... oh

You like a narcissistic abuser...?

[drowsy jasper]

hahaha i wasn't allowed to spam more ballas there 😭

[fast dew]

I don't.

[jolly root]

The devil never lies

[fast dew]

Think thats the best character to like

[drowsy saddle]

And now i know how some people had genuine issues with Kim chats

[drowsy jasper]

ballas is the devil

[fast dew]

I could say shit that makes ballas worse

[restive river]

I mean some just don’t know how to talk to people like
At all

[loud oriole]

-# i love the man who injected a pregnant woman with a biotechnological plague strain!!

[jolly root]

And her lover just because

[fast dew]

Him forcing the lotus to kiss him was assault but I don't think people are ready for that conversation

[drowsy saddle]

Yeah, sometimes its brain chemistry being wonky, others... Well

[jolly root]

Im pretty surr he just wanted to do that as an experiment as well

[drowsy jasper]

ima replay the old peace just to see Ballas in his prime

[restive river]

It was cause they broke a legem

[drowsy saddle]

Would turning her into natah count as body dysphoria

[restive river]

Terrible law but yknow

[fast dew]

Or whatever the hell he means about calling a child a nymph

[restive river]

Ballas is just a known child murderer

[drowsy jasper]

exactly

now u telling the truth

[restive river]

I’d def call it some form of abuse

[jolly root]

No he just found an excuse to try it

[restive river]

Hunhow was in on the plan iirc so like
Bad dad

[jolly root]

Yeah but hunhow i understand him

To a point

[restive river]

I don’t
He lumped all humanity into the literal worst group of people

[drowsy saddle]

I mean he called Salad an orokin as a slur

Even for salad, that's a bit much

[restive river]

Yeah

Racist grandpa

[jolly root]

True

[drowsy jasper]

Ballas just wanted to make peace with hunhow and the sentients

[restive river]

The moment he attacked innocent people like
No dude

[fast dew]

Unfortunately hes the best trans masc rep I got in warframe rn

[jolly root]

Tru3

[restive river]

Pedro

[drowsy saddle]

Pascal?

[restive river]

Ye placeholder drifter

[fast dew]

-# The drifter doesnt count and some would say is somewhat worse for letting a fascist live/j

I dont wanna be associated with either 💔

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/952946035733438575/1461285583681753251/explode-1768467993232.gif

[drowsy saddle]

Thrax and the drifter is that one meme of the dude asking people to ignore his rabid racist friend because they're old buds

[restive river]

I assume you mean Neci
But like Drifter didn’t. Know that?
They should have killed her for other reasons however, like how she was a crack for Wally to sneak in through

[fast dew]

Genuinely never understood why we didn't

[restive river]

Drifter def would have heard it to some extent but she was also just being controlled by Wally, from Drifter’s perspective she was just another victim

[fast dew]

Like did we not just slaughter hundreds

[drowsy jasper]

wait how did neci get to duviri in the first place if its just all made up in the drifter's head

[fast dew]

Its... not in their head

[drowsy saddle]

I love the cosmic humor of the fact that the daughter of 2 CIA agents started a Facist military junta

[fast dew]

Its a real place in the void

[restive river]

(Sun – "You do it.") Drifter: "You do it. I'm not your puppet."
(Neutral – "It's not really her…") Drifter: "But it's not really her that's doing this…."
(Moon – "I'd be no different.") Drifter: "What? Then how'd I be any different?"

[drowsy saddle]

Wally using her as a flesh puppet

[fast dew]

Albrecht also visits duviri

[restive river]

Duviri is in the void

[drowsy jasper]

when where?

[loud oriole]

-# and technically ballas is in duviri too

[jolly root]

I feel like it was more like drifter saw another victim and entrati seemed to me in that quest like he wasnt telling us everything

[drowsy saddle]

When he decided to pull a kratos and yeet himself into the void a second time

[restive river]

I just posted the 3 reasons they can give

[fast dew]

No he aint thats Kullvero's mind making a warden based on Albrecht
-# I think

[jolly root]

Sorry

[drowsy jasper]

soo the world in the void is the duviri??

[fast dew]

.... yes

[drowsy saddle]

The warden's VA is ballas' VA tho?

[restive river]

Drifter either just wants to defy Albrecht
Sees her as a victim
Or sees themselves as being no different than Wally ig

[drowsy jasper]

yes

[restive river]

Nah you’re fine

[restive river]

The Warden is based on Ballas
Always has been

[fast dew]

That doesn't make em the same damn person 😭

ALBRECHT

[loud oriole]

the magic of the void is if you think of something really really hard it will will itself into existence

[restive river]

It’s a manifestation of his crush

[fast dew]

INTYPED ALBRECHT

[drowsy saddle]

Well its kullervo's image of balsac

[jolly root]

Matbe the latter

[fast dew]

Im so tired chat

Its 2am i apolocheese

[loud oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/500-cigarettes-the-orville-gif-7999465420984481267

[restive river]

You have no control of conceptual embodiment

[drowsy saddle]

Not the man himself, if it was we'd merc him again

[restive river]

No like
Those are the three options :p

[jolly root]

The orks in warhammer 40k would like to differ

[restive river]

(Sun – "You do it.") Drifter: "You do it. I'm not your puppet."
(Neutral – "It's not really her…") Drifter: "But it's not really her that's doing this…."
(Moon – "I'd be no different.") Drifter: "What? Then how'd I be any different?"

[jolly root]

Yeah

[fast dew]

... you know thats a fair thing to say

What they do is kinda like that

Ever seen a purple ork? No, so they're invisible

Power of imagination

[jolly root]

Red makes things Faster

[restive river]

This is the void not the orks
The void takes in emotions and concepts and then turns them into something, it’s a natural process and not something that can be controlled as you cannot control how you feel or what’s in your head

[fast dew]

Outside CE being emotion based

Rather than thought based

[loud oriole]

darn, there goes the dream of CE'ng an infinite amount of Void Walmarts

[restive river]

I mean that’s why CE can’t be controlled
It’s emotion based

[hushed parcel]

why wouldnt i mean it in an innocent way

[restive river]

Ofc it also just takes in concepts but like
Cav didn’t have control over the incarnons happening, he was just wondering about augmentations and the void did what it does

[fast dew]

Which is why I always find it dumb every time I see someone hate on Albrecht for wally. Like christ.

[jolly root]

True i was just saying the willing something imto existence was orky

[restive river]

Which CE isn’t will based
But yeah it’s similar
Thing in head is now real

[fast dew]

Schroedinger's idiot over here

God its always the same

[restive river]

The orks are based off belief from what I know
They believe it does X and it does just that

CE isn’t based on believing something so hard it happens, it’s just the void reacting to your mind, to aspects in it you yourself cannot control

[jolly root]

Honestly at least warframe doesnt hide the facr that its a odd fandom

[restive river]

Unless you like
Manipulate or get manipulated heavily ig but you don’t know how your own mind will always react so

[jolly root]

Ive laughed at red text

[jolly root]

So more the warp then ork

[restive river]

Citrine red text that one time

[jolly root]

Yeah

[loud oriole]

-# mushroom buns

[restive river]

Idk enough about 40k but ik it’s been compared to that by those who understand both so yeah sure

[fast dew]

-# for the sake of things, im not calling them an idiot, its the term for saying something like that and changing your answer depending on the reaction

[drowsy saddle]

The warp in 40k is permanently scarred because a bunch of frogs said no to a group of skeletons who asked for the cure to super cancer

[jolly root]

The tau has humans in it and the humans accidentally made a warp entity named tauva

[restive river]

mean frogs

[drowsy saddle]

Then a big galaxy wide war erupted and enough dead tortured souls changed the flavor of the warp

[jolly root]

Not wrong but odd way to summarize the war in heaven

[drowsy saddle]

TTS style

Best analogy i heard was the equivalent of someone pissing in the pool, one person is a small area, but if everyone did it, the water isn't safe anymore

[jolly root]

🤣 🤣 🤣

[fast dew]

You know this is kinda like the straightifcation of gay clubs

In a weird way

[strange turtle]

[very not nice] skeletons, to be clear

(I tried to call them something else and found out only the plural of that word is allowed)

[drowsy saddle]

I mean they're all stuck at the angsty teenager phase, considering their life expectancy was the mid 20s

[jolly root]

Yeah

[jolly root]

I miss that

[mystic lynx]

Since Umbra got destroyed at the start of the sacrifice and we need to rebuild him does this mean we also make a replica of the original dax that got turned into umbra?

[drowsy saddle]

I think due to how ballas created umbra, his blueprint specifically retains his personality and memory of his son's death

[mystic lynx]

But then now it's an issue wether or not it's the same dax or not

[drowsy saddle]

Its their personality and memory

Even the umbra that ballas blew up only had those

[jolly root]

I still say umbra should have killed ballas

[loud oriole]

Ballas probably had the safety protocol active.
-# that we subsequently learned how to flick off

[west oasis]

ship of theseus

[south nimbus]

Unrelated, but can the drifter say he’s a billionaire, Playboy, philanthropist?

[loud oriole]

-# and marriage counselor

[pale cedar]

No, because those credits can’t be used for philanthropy

[south nimbus]

The leverian

I’ve donated millions to the Leverian

[drowsy saddle]

Leverian donations go to parvos' sister program and his jade weapons development

Every tenet weapon is forged from the extorted pockets of Drusus Leverian

[strange turtle]

Parvos is a bum who steals from struggling old widows confirmed

[pale cedar]

That’s not a charity because Parvos is taking it all

[south nimbus]

To be fair that’s like 50% of charities nowadays

[fluid panther]

Do we know if Kullervo was also an Orikin? In the Lore its mentioned that he betrayed the Orikin in many ways and knew about many things such as the next generation of Warframes. He also attemped to kill one of the seven who is refered to as an Executioner (maybe Nikoth?) and we know that the Orikin hated each other.

[silk atlas]

No and there isn't really any reason to assume he was, especially when the first crime he did was because he wanted to impress an Executor

[fluid panther]

I also find it weird that he wasnt turned into a Cephalon like Ordis

[silk atlas]

They had different punishments for different things, and nothing says why Kullervo was turned into a Warframe in the first place

All the crime stuff happened after he was already a Warframe

[fast dew]

Executors are the 7, and if it was an attempt at an executor theres chances that he'd just be killed over glassed.

Oh. Yeah and he was a warframe and I dont imagine glassing works well on a hivemind

[pale cedar]

I doubt many Orokin would even think about turning an Orokin into a Warframe

[fast dew]

It was not something that really happened

[fluid panther]

I'm so confused with the Protoframe and stuff

[fast dew]

Iirc roathe mentions it

[pale cedar]

Generally Orokin are immune to punishments

[silk atlas]

The Protoframes are an unrelated thing to this.

[fast dew]

How so?

No, with the exception of Flare, they're not the originals
They're the result of a modified helminth strain
They're made by Albrecht Entrati

[pale cedar]

This is why you gotta collect the books

Reading is important

[fast dew]

Nemesis, half of the fanbase arent even aware of the whispers

[pale cedar]

How dare they disrespect the very fibre of my being

[fluid panther]

What about Xaku Prime?

[pale cedar]

What about her?

She’s unrelated to Proto stuff

Them

I’m tired lol

[fluid panther]

How they exist in the first place

[silk atlas]

Same as any other frame

There's nothing mentioned about them being special, so you can just assume there's nothing special. Not like they can't just remake more Xaku's after they got the first

[fast dew]

nemesis its they/them for Xaku

[fluid panther]

Wasnt Xaku an accidental thing?

[fast dew]

Original one was, yes

[pale cedar]

I said I’m tired lol

[fast dew]

We think they just got primed by someone, presumably ballas or maybe Albrecht

[fast dew]

Mb didnt read that, I am also tired

[pale cedar]

That Lotus nerfed discussion did me in

[fast dew]

Muckin fair enough

[fluid panther]

I was gonna say, because wouldn't it make more sense to Prime the original like Lavos?

[pale cedar]

Lavos Prime wasn’t the original

He just made himself Prime because he felt like it

[fluid panther]

Thats what I meant

[woven coyote]

Most frames dont know alchemy

[fluid panther]

Original I meant the common one IDK man

[strange turtle]

Not particularly, though for all we know that could’ve been the case

[pale cedar]

We aren’t ever really told which is the original as both can be the case

[woven coyote]

Also the batches are designed, they dont need an original or even a built one to prime

In xaku's case that just means they needed to perhaps scan them

then there's rev

[pale cedar]

Orokin could’ve grabbed a base and upgraded it then stuck gold on it and gave it Prime title

[woven coyote]

And like i said they likely didnt even need xaku to be actually physically there, just scan the xaku that came back all glued up and then redesign a blueprint to be primed

[pale cedar]

Yeah

Once you have a model you can just 3D print it

2 of a frame is often the case but not a rule or anything

[normal mountain]

"What fatherless aberration is this? Who brings the wicked gift of an unknown mask this Naberus night? Seething with the Void, mocking me and causality alike!

And what strange cruelty named him, to know and defy his death?

This shadow of ill omen. This grim harbinger. This... Revenant."

I love Ballas just losing his mind like that

[shadow ingot]

I would too. Revenant is trash

Cool lore tho

[empty terrace]

Man why do they put railjack between the war within and chains of harrow. It took me my whole free time to just farm materials for railjack.

But chains of harrow was good though. I'm still not sure why magulis kicked rell out. I had the impression that she was a nice person. Even Rell kept talking about "mom". Well I guess I'll know in the future. But man the entire quest was really creepy. They turned off lighting of entire levels and that tap tap tap thingy was mildly scary too. I hope they give more levels like that in future.

Also I'm very interested in this man in the wall if he's real.

[hazy prism]

That is genuinely a weird place to put the railjack mission, i honestly think it should come after Chains of Harrow

[empty terrace]

Yeah. And I just put khora in the foundry before starting railjack so I was totally empty

[silk atlas]

It used to be something you did over the course of playing leading up to TNW, since that's when it's required to get, but at this point the resources are so small now it's whatever.

[strange turtle]

Rell’s Mom is his actual mother

The one on the Zariman

[empty terrace]

Oh I see. I thought as he was also tenno he was calling magulis mom as well

[hazy prism]

Yeah the Railjack resources used to be worse? But also it was new content, so I had already had a resource backlog for it

[strange turtle]

No, he was cast out by her, Palladino says it in the quest

[empty terrace]

I know that but I thought he did something bad in zariman later so she cast him out and we were seeing his memories when he used to call her mom. Guess I mixed both of the things up

[normal mountain]

No, he was cast out because he accidentally blinded Margulis

[empty terrace]

Damn thx for spoiling. Now I don't need to worry about next quests

[normal mountain]

It's not a spoiler
Palladino tells you this quite early in the quest

[empty terrace]

I don't think she did. Maybe I missed it. .

[normal mountain]

Also, the wall paint in the first mission mentions the blinding

[strange turtle]

You did

[empty terrace]

But why would he blind her though? 🤔

[strange turtle]

Accident

[empty terrace]

I need to craft one more orbital thingy for the next quest. Well I can't play quests until next weekend either. Uni and exams aren't really good matches for games like Warframe. See you until next weekend.

[gentle isle]

It's never stated who blinded her

And according to the rell webcomic he was cast out by the other tenno

[hazy prism]

Rell was also excluded from the crysosleep that the other Tenno went under, game isn't super clear if that was a Margulis thing or something else (since the precursor red veil started already from that point on)

[gentle isle]

Yea palladino says margulis shunned him but considering he was almost always by himself I feel like it's just as likely she never knew he existed but that's just my opinion

Because knowing what we know of margulis I just find it very hard to believe she would just abandon one of the tenno just for being abnormal

And you can't really call ANY of the tenno "normal" children either

[silk atlas]

The fact all the other Tenno didn't like him either didn't help

[gentle isle]

my personal theory is rell got off of the zariman on his own and got picked up by people who would be the founders of the red veil

it doesn't explain how he would get his hands on Harrow tho so eh

...or how the frame whose most prominent user is a tenno most either shunned or didn't know about got a prime

[hazy prism]

The only reason why I could see Margulis basically "outcasting" Rell is

1. she just didn't know how to take care of Rell
2. Other Tenno REALLY didn't like him, so she just decided to basically sacrifice Rell to focus her attention on the rest of the Tenno
3. Rell slipped through the cracks, since there were many Tenno, and eventually Rell just went missing as far as Margulis knew

[empty terrace]

I think the 3rd one is more likely

[wind ruin]

Caring for someone who is that strongly on the spectrum is not easy. Margulis simply did not have the experience or time to figure Rell out. Rell's blinding Margulis was accidental and he regretted it, but he got ostracized anyway because the other Tenno thought he did it deliberately.

[eager dragon]

Personally I'm still skeptical that it was Rell who blinded Margulis, unless if it was confirmed anywhere else besides Chains of Harrow?

[gentle isle]

yea again, there is no statement that rell was the one who blinded her, where is this coming from?

[wind ruin]

Add to that the general Orokin cultural attitude of 'that which is not perfect doesn't deserve to exist' and it is no surprise that Rell fell outside supervision.

[gentle isle]

transcript from the second dream:

"we hurt her"

[eager dragon]

That was in Chains of Harrow, written in blood "Blinded, she cast him out"

But not only is it somewhat vague

It is also coming from legends passed down by generations.

It's not exactly a reliable source.

[gentle isle]

the operator includes themselves among the party responsible for blinding her, an admission of guilt, and we presumably did not know of rell's existence before chains of harrow

[empty terrace]

Changing the subject but so far the story I've played (chains of harrow) is very similar to my favorite sci-fi novel series called red rising. And I'm loving it. Idk much about orokin at this point but I'm assuming they were high and mighty elite society. It is the same as gold in the book. Minor spoiler ||in book for some reason darrow who is main character and also red (lowest class) needs to go through change to turn into gold as well so he could enter their ranks||

Maybe she didn't cast him out personally but other tennos blamed him because it was easy to frame someone with rells situation so even though he didn't blind her personally but because of other tenno he took it upon himself and started blaming himself too.

[eager dragon]

Personally I think the entire "cast out" part was something that got added later as the story was passed down.

[silk atlas]

Third is the least likely because Lotus makes it a point that "all Tenno are known to me" and Rell just happens to be the sole one that she's got nothing on.

[gentle isle]

i could see a scuffle between children turning into a myth of a dark exile in a couple hundred years

[empty terrace]

Also one more thing I'm questioning is while idk what that hunhow looks like but other sentients I encountered in game don't look humanoid at all but lotus looks more like human. Maybe that's just character design I guess.

[gentle isle]

palladino immediately follows that up with the point that the lotus was just a mimic and not margulis so if margulis didn't know of rell, there's no reason the lotus would either

[eager dragon]

Explained (somewhat) later.

I believe in the Ropalolyst node, which unlocks once you complete the Sacrifice.

On jupiter.

[silk atlas]

Not like Marge could cast her out if she didn't know who she was though

Then it'd just be "ah crap where's Rell"

[gentle isle]

which is why we're saying the whole "margulis casting rell out" is probably inaccurate or muddled

or at least theorizing

we also need to acknowledge the red veil are kinda fanatics and we should probably take a solid 40% of their beliefs with a grain of salt, and that's me being generous

[hazy prism]

Red Veil have their version of events, and they are not 100 reliable

Beat me to it by a second

[gentle isle]

lol

[ocean geyser]

I always see people arguing about this

[tall echo]

She's a mimic

[eager dragon]

He's pre-Sacrifice, don't think that's been mentioned.

[hazy prism]

Just finished Chains of Harrow iirc

[tall echo]

Shouldn't be here before completing story so, own fault

[ocean geyser]

Something something “margulis is actually ableist, everyone just wants to perpetuate the idea she’s infallible”
I think it was a wiki comment

[hazy prism]

Insane wiki comment take, she basically adopted a whole orphanage of children who have magic powers, give her a break 😭

[ocean geyser]

People on the wiki are usually on some shit

[gentle isle]

for me it's more like it's a major deviation from what little was established so it's hard to take what's been told as fact, i know this game has been around for a while and inconsistencies can naturally happen but i just wanna try and have things make sense

[eager dragon]

To be fair we've had very little of Margulis so far that isn't coming from another character.

A few voicelines.

[gentle isle]

true

[eager dragon]

The appearance in the Old Peace.

And that's about it, I think?

[hazy prism]

And even that isn't exactly as it happened

[silk atlas]

Yeah the problem is that we just have nothing about her anyway, so it's just as likely she had her arm twisted by the other Tenno to keep Rell kicked out.

Especially given the attitudes in the comic.

[gentle isle]

maybe further dialogues with lyon will reveal more, who knows

[tall echo]

Wdym

[eager dragon]

There wasn't much dialogue that I've had about Rell in himself, to be honest.

Mostly regarding ||him being present with Lyon and then... dissipating||.

Once the serum was taken and once Lyon crossed time, respectively.

[gentle isle]

actually this reminds me of a question i had regarding the end of the old peace: ||margulis places us under sleep and says we'll be going to lua, but this is way before the lotus even makes an appearance, so does this mean we were already in cryo by the time the night of the naga drums happened? were we even a part of the rest of the old war?||

[hazy prism]

The whole Ballas interaction (since during old peace, our Operator shouldn't have any specific reaction to Ballas) so us going "it's you" and Ballas just syaing a non sequitur shows the memories aren't exactly as they happened

[tall echo]

The second dream was margulis' program so. Yes

[gentle isle]

oh right we were briefly brought out to fry erra in the prelude to war flashback

[tall echo]

The operator would still know ballas and have reason for a unique reaction

[eager dragon]

Considering that the night of naga drums was (probably) orchestrated by Ballas and the Lotus, and thus would not need the Tenno to be fully awake, yes, probably.

We were still part of the Old War, to my understanding though, just in the state we were post-Awakening pre-Second Dream (the quests).

[tall echo]

The notng was orchestrated by hunhow and ballas with lotus acting as a fuse of sorts

[hazy prism]

I could be reading too much into it I guess, still seems weird to have a reaction like that.

[eager dragon]

He must have done something to piss them off at some point prior. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tall echo]

He's the main military guy and lover of our adoptive mother(1)

[eager dragon]

Yeah, but neither of these would automatically make the Tenno/Operator hate him.

Which is very much the emotion we were showing there.

[tall echo]

Mainly confusion

[gentle isle]

||there's also that bit with us in tears in the world seeder section seeing loid reminding us this is just a memory and adis repeating his last words to us to calm us down "my light is with you, always" so you may have a point in that this recollection may not be completely accurate||

[eager dragon]

That... did not sound like confusion to me, to be honest.

[main crane]

Well, Ballas hated the Tenno because he believes the Tenno are taking away Margulis' love for him. So it would make sense that the Operator also hates Ballas.

[eager dragon]

The way they said you.

[tall echo]

But also ballas was good to marg until the tenno came along, he presumably became hostile pretty quickly

[eager dragon]

Yes, it's what I'm assuming too, we just don't have enough information yet to be sure.

As of yet it is just speculation.

We still have the entire "polluted histories" line from Loid.

My first assumption was that he was refering to the Indifference encroaching on the memories.

[strange turtle]

Main warframe guy*

Main military Orokin was Nitokh

[eager dragon]

But it wasn't really a part until later in the quest.

[tall echo]

Was she?

[hazy prism]

Also the info that Ballas was the tie breaker vote came later

[main crane]

Also, dialogues from The Second Dream. After what the Tenno did to Margulis (assuming it was the part where she got blinded), Ballas wanted the Tenno dead but Margulis disagreed.

[strange turtle]

Yes, hence her subordinate Roathe being Vice Regent Grand Carnus

[hazy prism]

She was at least with the war against the Sentients with all the info we have from Roathe

[tall echo]

Fancy yet meaningless title

[hazy prism]

He was still the 2nd in command, and had soldiers under him, fought and commited something to be dubbed "devil of tau"

[tall echo]

Seems counterproductive to put someone like her in that position

Which in turn means it's a very orokin decision

[strange turtle]

It was not a “meaningless title”, they just thought her giving it to Roathe was a joke because he was her boytoy

[eager dragon]

Considering this is the same people who decided to invest into a high risk expedition with the Zariman when they already had an almost guaranteed success in the process via the Sentients, because they became too inpatient? Seems about right.

[tall echo]

"Grand carnus" is fairly meaningless

[tall echo]

Yes

[strange turtle]

To us, yeah

Evidently not the Orokin

[tall echo]

Shooting themselves in the foot is orokin tradition

[eager dragon]

(I will never stop being pissed at that decision. Like, please, why couldn't the Orokin be competent once)

[tall echo]

Ballas clearly liked to use a shotgun with how bombastically all his ideas backfired

[tall echo]

You're really asking why the authoritarian classist dictator "gods" aren't competent?

[gentle isle]

i'm almost totally convinced the only reason the empire didn't immediately collapse in on itself was thanks to some very competent archimedeans

[hazy prism]

Narmer would have succeeded, idk how Ballas was supposed to take into account for something he didn't know existed

[eager dragon]

Considering how much they achieved by that point? Yes.

[tall echo]

A bumbling fool can still accidentally progress

[gentle isle]

monkeys on typewriters i suppose

[tall echo]

It would've fallen eventually even without the drifter

[strange turtle]

One can be high in intelligence but low in wisdom

[eager dragon]

But that's the thing - none of the Orokin we've seen, outside of maybe Tuvul, appeared to be particularly dumb - Albrecht, Euleria, Nitokh, Ballas - they were all clearly capable.

They weren't great people by any means, but they weren't dumb either.

[past halo]

You know when I was cracking those Vanguard Relics I always felt like I was giving the commandeered Prime Vanguard a second chance to atone for what they had become

[strange turtle]

Or battlefield competence, considering their only conflicts were petty inter-house scuffles, with the Orokin probably passing on most of the boring parts to subordinates and potentially barely engaging in the actual military side aside from the glorious moments with no risk of being unable to Kuva

[tall echo]

Smart, but short-tempered

Impatient

[gentle isle]

we can also chalk it up to arrogance, it makes ppl do stupid things

[eager dragon]

Which is also a weird trait for immortal beings.

But sure.

[tall echo]

All the intelligence in the world couldn't help someone who explodes at the slightest insult

[gentle isle]

and MASSIVE egos

[tall echo]

Gotta keep in mind that they were not truly immortal

"Immortal as we are, we die with the sun"

[eager dragon]

No, but until the Old War they may as well have been.

[strange turtle]

Reminder that the great genius Albrecht Entrati and his also very intelligent assistant, at least one of whom was a significantly capable combatant, had the bright idea of fighting the eldritch horror with a giant golem

[eager dragon]

To be fair, they were also very much running out of ideas there.

It seems to me, together with the cavia experiments, that they were just throwing everything at the wall to see what would stick.

(Considering the form he takes in the New War, possibly literally)

[keen latch]

Good point, it has all the time in the world. I wonder what an infestation, driven to claim an area looks like. I've been throwing around what a head to head between the infestation (any strain) vs the flood from halo would look like because I like cross-universe thought exersizes like that.

Warframe is smaller scale though and so things are written with that in account.

Similarly I imagine what the infestation could get up to if you dropped a spore colony onto something like a Forge World from Warhammer 40k.

[strange turtle]

I was going to say that someone had written about that but then I remembered it was Flood and a Hive World, or at least a Hive City

[lilac aspen]

…
Do not let them into 40k

Don’t get me wrong
They wouldn’t stomp 40k, there’s plenty of other things that would kinda hinder that ability

But they’d basically get more buffs

[ocean geyser]

Infested Tyranids would just be a whole new nightmare fuel

[dark compass]

Obligatory "Grineer are stronger than space marines"

[ocean geyser]

Maybe Prime grineer lol
Current grineer are a
Little funky

[proper barn]

Grinner aren't tenno however.

[tall echo]

nah not even prime

[dark compass]

There's a quote living rent free in my head coming from the meridian hires who just casually dent a railjack hull with a frustrated punch

[proper barn]

So?

That doesn't mean anything. I could dent metal probably. It would hurt but I could.

[dark compass]

Hm

Vinny can you beat a Grineer in a fight

(sorry I'm not taking this seriously)

[proper barn]

Marines to Grinner grinner would 1 on 1 marines would probably win. Now the tenno and the warframes are kinda made

To beat the kind of soilder the space marines are.

[dark compass]

Infinite punch through

[proper barn]

This is even before you talk about like

Mind blasting or something.

[ocean geyser]

Grineer could probably swarm marines with numbers at least
Or maybe send in a couple liches

[dark compass]

Kuva guardian when space marines can't void sling (total damage invulnerability)

[lilac aspen]

You fool

That space marine is named
and helmetless

[drowsy saddle]

Wouldn't the Dax be on par with marines

[spice spade]

Is there a lore on Loki? I can't seem to find it tbh

[strange plinth]

no

[dark compass]

You know who else is named and helmet less

[spice spade]

Damn... All of my fav frames have no lore?????

Loki and Vauban ;~;

[strange plinth]

vauban has a prime trailer, at least
he was made to combat n spite the corpus

[spice spade]

Yeah but other than that, no lore beyond it hahaha

Tho by the way, it never really given in the lore... But how powerful is Nidus lore wise?

[dark compass]

I don't think we have any solid Nidus lore?

[strange plinth]

same as other frames, for the most part. he's not particularly special

[spice spade]

All I know from Glast is the Infestation he scattered are... Big like the whole ship, and that's it

[spice spade]

Oh word? Damn he was one of the special frames that I wanna learn more too

[lean garden]

yea theres nothing aside from "haha yea one day ballas yote a nidus out there and it came back as a prime"

[dark compass]

He is just closest to the Helminth

[lilac aspen]

No way
Bopp bipp

[dark compass]

Yes, named and helmetless

The Roboute Giulliman of Kuva liches

[spice spade]

Ooo oo! What about Lavos tho! I haven't read any of the Lore on Lavos aside fr he primed himself... That's all I know

[lean garden]

just run very far away from anyone that claims nidus is one of the following:

1. First warframe
2. Controls all infested
3. Immortal/unkillable

[lean garden]

oh that? check out the leverian

[strange plinth]

lavos has a whole leverian actually ! he has a good bit of lore
basic rundown is that he was a prison warden that was taught alchemy by one of the prisoners that he was supposed to guard and eventually execute

[dark compass]

Check his leverian

Very cool story

[spice spade]

Oh word???? Might check it later when I play

[dark compass]

He nuked a room with vial rush

[spice spade]

Ooooooo

[dark compass]

[spice spade]

Lavos fascinate me too bc he is the (and I think the only) Alchemist in the game

[dark compass]

Technically modding weapons with elements is alchemy

He can just do it on the fly

[drowsy saddle]

Cause he's superfly

[lilac aspen]

In game he’s unkillable (with the right build)

Lore wise though
Killable

[dark compass]

Nidus fanclub is one of the most dedicated

Can't argue with it

[ocean geyser]

wonder if we'll ever be able to get Hunhow's goofy ass outta the ocean

i know he absolutely won't WANT us to
but i wouldn't be surprised if there will be a moment where we're going to need a giant sentient on our side

[lone locust]

coming back to the game after around 10 years, cant believe DE are time cubers

[strange plinth]

lmao

[dark compass]

He will be like the grandpa from Willy Wonka's chocolate factory

Refused to get out of bed until he saw the golden ticket to tau

The moment we tell him he just floats up and goes back to business

[ocean geyser]

i wonder if he's technically an Eidolon though

isn't he dying down there or something?
just
incredibly slowly?

[dark compass]

He seems alive and well, just underwater

[ocean geyser]

just doesn't really want to leave

[dark compass]

Yeah

[ocean geyser]

interesting

[dark compass]

He's bedrotting

[ocean geyser]

bro went for one hell of a swim

[dark compass]

More like one hell of a dive

[drowsy saddle]

He's basically going for the death by not moving

[dark compass]

We tell him the path to tau is open and he will just get up like nothing happened

[lilac aspen]

Hunhow is basically slow dying
Very, very, very slow dying

[strange plinth]

Hunhow: "I have wallowed here, it is true, fading in this deep hole, waiting to die... but without release."

[drowsy saddle]

Heat death of the sun slow

[ocean geyser]

lmao
that reminds me
don't the ascension nodes happen in the Stalker's lair?
Im surprised we don't hear him yap
unless he's off doing something else so he doesn't have to watch us fight space capitalists all day

[dark compass]

It's called aging

[ocean geyser]

im impressed the Grineer are letting that slide too actually

[dark compass]

Lmao what are they gonna do

[lilac aspen]

Of course he’s a sentient though sooooo

Hunhow to the ocean water:

https://tenor.com/view/mahoraga-makora-jujutsu-kaisen-gif-15349122341911766662

[drowsy saddle]

Back when it was an operation, we had the option of playing as the Stalker to join random lobbies as a hidden 5th

[dark compass]

"hey man can you move please we have an underground base expansion plan and you're stuck in the way"

[ocean geyser]

LMAO

i mainly meant in regards to the ascension mission

probably wouldn't be pleased with Parvos sending squads down there constantly

[dark compass]

At least he has Yareli(deluxe) to keep him company

[ocean geyser]

oh true

i wonder who curbstomped the Yareli that became Pandea

eh could have been anyone at that point

[dark compass]

Stalker awkwardly avoiding eye contact

[ocean geyser]

that'd be funny as hell actually

"Shadow, you're kind of ass at killing people. Anyway watch me turn this girlypop creature into a red mushroom thing"

[lilac aspen]

Jade Prime trailer but it’s Stalker interrupting Ballas to talk about how based she is

[glacial bear]

So anyone got some time to talk about Viktor, it's one part of the lore I keep screwing up somehow

[strange plinth]

couldn't have been stalker based on how hunhow talks about the yareli in reaper's lament

[strange plinth]

what about him

[glacial bear]

So I get that Entrati went back in time, infects the Hex, and I've put together how Rulksa fits in but I can't seem to remember where Viktor came from and how he fits in

Admittadly I have been playing for a LONG time and it's been a long time since I went through that whole quest chain

[drowsy saddle]

He's completely oblivious to the whole time war shenanigananery

He's just Rusalka's 2nd in command who took over when she "mysteriously" disappeared at the start of the year

[strange plinth]

Viktor is Rusalka's second-in-command, which is why we don't hear much from him during the quest. in her absence, he leads the scaldra

[dark compass]

Jade prime trailer and it's just stalker hyping up his wife

[strange plinth]

he spends most of his time yelling about the corruption of the city and threatening his troops

[glacial bear]

That makes sense but as far as we're aware he's not a Protoframe correct? and Where did Rulksa go is that part of the Islaeweaver spiral of Duvri? I don't know that I've played through t

[lilac aspen]

“My wife is amazing, Hunhow.”

[drowsy saddle]

He also executes his engineering team at the end of the year

As long as we blow up his tank

[dark compass]

https://youtu.be/-sMQpWCNTQw

Now that Stalker is voiced by Gianni

[drowsy saddle]

He's just a Facist religious twink

No orokin tech in him for now

[strange plinth]

nope. just a guy
Rusalka is possessed by the man in the wall, so she went to take over duviri as part of isleweaver, yea

[dark compass]

Protoframes aren't really given our freely

Albrecht wants it to be ironic

[glacial bear]

I gotta sit down and reexperience the new saga from Man in the Wall somehow, Obviously that's our big bad in this part of the saga but I just can't completely put together everything in my head

[dark compass]

[glacial bear]

Albriecht is a sociopath

[drowsy saddle]

I swear its like the tonics are partially self aware and albrecht just goes where the bottle goes

[spice spade]

Oh yeah that's true hahahahah

[dark compass]

That's called alcoholism

[drowsy saddle]

At this point all evidence points to a cosmic level of tism

[dark compass]

Albrecht "No cost is too great. We end as we began. I love my butler husband" Entrati

[glacial bear]

So did he make ALL the frames as far as we're aware? Would that mean there are hypothetically a protoframe for each frame right?

[strange plinth]

first shown in war within, 'released' during chains of harrow, mocks us after the sacrifice, flies out of ballas's void portal in the new war, then whispers and its following quests give a bunch more detail on him

[glacial bear]

Or would that only go up to a point

[drowsy saddle]

Poor oraxia, double whammy of being both a woman and a pet of Albrecht. No wonder she sent feral

[dark compass]

He just took a modified version of the warframe serum that acts much slower and injected it into people (and Roathe)

[strange plinth]

as far as we know, its just the protos we've seen. he didn't make any full frames, just modified the helminth batches to make the protos

[drowsy saddle]

DE probably isn't going to make protoframes for every frame, buuut, if they're going to introduce new characters, it might be a protoframe

[dark compass]

The only warframe he explicitly designed is Qorvex

[drowsy saddle]

Which i headcanon as a gorilla from a höllvania zoo he kidnapped

[glacial bear]

It's the quest following Whispers where I'm trying to catch up, cuz there are defiently 2 different big bads right now lol

and I keep confusing them

[strange plinth]

its mostly just the man in the wall?
pazuul's still off doing,,, whatever he's doing for narmer ig

[dark compass]

Emotional support and waiting out for archons in the foundry

[glacial bear]

True but then you got Entrati as well, unless they're connected somewhere

and I've missed it

[strange plinth]

ehh, entrati's not really an antagonist
he has the only plan for actually dealing with the man in the wall, so we're following his plan (as much as he tells us, which is not a lot.) and picking up the messes he made

he plays the villain during The Hex to bait you into caring about them and learning the lesson he wants you to, as he half-explains in the Hex Finale

[glacial bear]

Ah, I guess that's fair. I know the stories they're telling are absolutely wild and I love htem

[drowsy saddle]

"My archons keep getting killed by the tenno"

"what are you doing to stop them?"

"I keep shoving shards into them and sending em out again"

"Sounds like you're just feeding archons to the tenno"

[dark compass]

He then started crying

[proper barn]

A lot of people wanna kill entrati

So you know.

[drowsy saddle]

I reserve all judgement on entrati until after i get 1 knuckle sandwich in him

[proper barn]

@glacial bear but as someone else said Entrati didn't make any frames other than Qorvex. The protos are made from taking samples of existing frames and injecting people with them.

[proper barn]

You and Tagfer and Lettie and Roathe and Quincy.

[ocean geyser]

Ballas is the one who designed warframes

[drowsy saddle]

There's an argument to ve made that Temple is technically a frame entrati made, tho it was designed by ballas then shelved for being too rebellious

[proper barn]

Ehhhh

[dark compass]

That wouldn't be Entrati's design

Still just a modified serum that was already made

[ocean geyser]

he didn't really
design temple though
that particular bit is important when you want to consider someone the "Maker" of a warframe

[drowsy saddle]

The more credit i can steal from ballas, the better

[ocean geyser]

lmao

[drowsy saddle]

Titania isn't his warframe, its the archimedian who became the silver grove

[dark compass]

Ballas one day: "...David Bowie"

[drowsy saddle]

"I saw... A Starman, waiting for us, in the sky."

"He'd like to come and meet us, but he feared it blow our minds."

[dark compass]

"and ngl I was afraid of that too, let's not gonna do that"

[drowsy saddle]

Considering that Flare hides in an asteroid till the naga drums.. I guess ballas was right to be afraid

[dark compass]

It was like tauron academy all over again

But everyone could hear the guitar

[drowsy saddle]

Flare would've pulled a kingsman and played such an reality shattering riff that all the orokin's head would have exploded

"And this, is wndrwll"

Today, day day day day day day
Day day day day day day
By now now now now now now
Now now now now now now
I don't believe that anybody feels
The way I do doo, doo, doo, doo, doo

[glacial bear]

I am grinding for temple now

[tall echo]

Very fun frame, definitely worth it

[glacial bear]

So now the three new characters are from further back than 99 right

[drowsy saddle]

The triad? They're from xx99

[dark compass]

Secret to having fun with Temple is to aim with Lizzie

Suddenly Temple joins the ranks of Lavos, Voruna, Koumei and Citrine

[tall echo]

The secret is to spam 1 and 2

[dark compass]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Fair enough I guess

[drowsy saddle]

The secret is to have lamenting the days looping in a browser

[tall echo]

Tbf before I switched to playing on my pc I physically couldn't use the lizzie alt fires bc of how the controller layout is

[strange plinth]

they are horrific on controller yes

[tall echo]

I'm vibin to Poor Man's Poison whenever I play wf

And just like with fallout I like to imagine the enemies can hear it like I'm playing it through a radio

Just imagine the terror of hearing some industrial rock country style music slowly approaching, accompanied by the screams of dying grineer and explosions

[drowsy saddle]

Uranium fever while blasting radiation

[dark compass]

I just got bored of Temple quickly

To the point I started using aimed shots on Lizzie as notes to play music

That's like discovering a whole new gameplay layer to them

[tall echo]

I mean. My favorite fallout gun is the radium rifle

[drowsy saddle]

Damn, you can actually play wonderwall

[glacial bear]

Lizzie I assume is his ult weapon.

[drowsy saddle]

Yeah it's the guitar