lore-discussion

[strange plinth]

ngl i feel like it would take away from the event somewhat

[strong viper]

Hmmm...

[restive river]

Some things shouldn’t be seen

[tall echo]

I should turn some of my feather collection into quills...

[restive river]

ARE YOU STILL SITTING ON THIS

[strong viper]

YES

[dawn shuttle]

gotta let them finish the meal

[tall echo]

What. The hell.

[strong viper]

Okay fine ill bite a bullet

[dawn shuttle]

i remember when i did this quest my drifter just didn't show up

[restive river]

GIRL/BOY/WHATEVERYOUARE YOU GOTTA CHOOSE

[strange plinth]

it has been an hour--

[eager dragon]

I feel like if we saw a small part of it with hints of the rest in the skybox or something it could work really well.

[tall echo]

It is literally just cosmetic

[dawn shuttle]

i didn't realize they were supposed to be there until later lol

[restive river]

ez choice

[peak ether]

your operator has been consumming collodial silver i see

[strong viper]

Im a dude but she's a dudette. But my drifter was a boy before this. Ironically

[restive river]

Transitioned? :o

[strong viper]

Lmao her moms nuke green hair in the picture

[tall echo]

🏳️‍⚧️ drifter

[strong viper]

Yeah that might be a thing lol. This char is changing genders on diff games i make her in all the time. Usually a tomboy anyhoot

[tall echo]

I suspect your favorite color might be green

[strong viper]

Male frames were my main so i made a female op

[peak ether]

Drifter after experiencing death countless times realised that her true self was a woman, freeing herself from thrax

[dawn shuttle]

duviri did give her a lot of time to reflect

[restive river]

Do it
You know you want to

[eager dragon]

I wish we had more body types for the Drifter.

What we have works for the Operator 'cause they are a kid, but the Drifter? Ehhhhh.

[strong viper]

Earthy tones, olive, silver. I use more teal and blue with her.

[strong viper]

Not a big fan of bright greens but they just fit the pallette and the whole moon man thing

[tall echo]

Chubby drifter

[strange plinth]

small bits are alright, like we can see a very tiny piece during jade shadows n that's fine, but i don't want much beyond that

[strong viper]

Drifter realizing the essence of the Mask lore and becoming a woman directly at TNW

[peak ether]

would fit the Early Lunch honoria

[strong viper]

Was a blonde dude for Duviri xD

[tall echo]

Every grendel main gonna be chubby drifter

(Me. I'm every grendel main)

[strong viper]

With green eyes xD

Now she has gold eyes and his eye color for hair xD

[restive river]

She transitioned and changed up her style just a tad lol

[tall echo]

My drifter and operator have the same hair color as lyon in my pfp and a weak attempt at copying my eye color

[restive river]

I gave them similar hair but different dyes
Same base eye colors but the energy and right eye is altered

[strong viper]

Oh nice!

Same energy colors because i picked up that vibe early on

[restive river]

Headcanon it as like
Operator void damage from the incident snd Drifter cause uh. Idk time powers idk lol

[strong viper]

Grineer gaslight green

[restive river]

I changed the energy colors recently since it was established further that Drifter’s abilities are specific to them

[eager dragon]

My Operator and Drifter have the same hairstyle but the Operator had black hair and the Drifter is blonde.

Eye color-wise they both have purple eyes but the Operator's right eye is white due to a somatic scar, which I headcanon having appeared during the War Within.

[strong viper]

Yeah i tried to give him more gold influence

So he ended up more lime

[restive river]

Gave her gold eye energy cause I have an OC who uses chronomancy and its gold!

[strong viper]

Right!

Moonlore has that in her lore so, yeah the grace eyes

[restive river]

Doctor who totally didnt influence me

[restive river]

Ooooo

[strong viper]

I promise I am not Miquella 2 xS

[restive river]

Love it!
Love cool eye lore!!!

[strong viper]

She's like if the grim reaper was also a rebirth goddess ala wiccan triple mom

[restive river]

👀

[strong viper]

Also some herne and Wild Haunt vibes

[peak ether]

I gave my operator heterochromia and a scar over a blue eye for refined void energy esque with drifter maintaining the original eyes with longer hair

[restive river]

Triple mom? You mean
The Natlotulis

[strong viper]

Def in this world totes

[eager dragon]

Only picture I have on hand where you can see it.

[peak ether]

should've been one of the name options tbh

just have her constantly bickering with herself

[restive river]

Love itttt
I have the somatic scarring on the right eye to go with the “damaged” eye

I like to think she can see voidy things through it or somethin

[strong viper]

"LADY MORE-AGAIN"

[restive river]

Quinn does have a comment about only those touched by the void can see some void-manifestations

Oh
Maybe that, and cause he wanted it, is why Yonta saw Wally on incident day…

[restive river]

They all try to lead together and its horrible lol

[peak ether]

natah wants everything dead, lotus wants to complete the objective, margulis wants the operator to be safe

[restive river]

Yeah those are all moms

[strong viper]

Maiden
Mother
Crone

[restive river]

YUP

[strong viper]

Tho you could flip mom and crone

But ye

[restive river]

Three Faced Goddess…

[tall echo]

Same except left eye

[restive river]

I think Lyon talks about the maiden mother and crone actually

Scrap you’re the lyon lover, does he?

[tall echo]

My operator has the left eye void scarring and bright teal left eye

[strong viper]

I noticed when spying on natah she has one of those arbiter of hexis face-ear muff's on the back of her neck

[tall echo]

I don't remember s- actually, I do. Kinda

[restive river]

Oh neat

[restive river]

Ha
You love your boyfriend

[tall echo]

I was destined to fall into the role

[eager dragon]

I just wish we could control the eye glow individually, like we can with the eye color proper.

[restive river]

He is the best boy of the triad

[tall echo]

Yes

[strong viper]

Man marty mcfly is gonna love 1999

[restive river]

McFlea

[strong viper]

Ol Hopper

[tall echo]

Oh absolutely

[peak ether]

i saw the decorate attachments seperately and got excited only to be dissappointed i couldnt colour them individually as well

[tall echo]

I wanted to give my drifter a slight teal shimmer but only in the left eye, which doesn't work

[tall echo]

You react with a laughing emoji... just wait lol

[strong viper]

So lmao i keep dying on Approach Praghasa

[tall echo]

Hide from the sun

[strong viper]

I got that xD

But theres no cover

And i wind up catching a cycle

[tall echo]

The wreckage floating everywhere

[strong viper]

I used the ship for about halfway then it melted

[ashen pulsar]

there's a lot of cover lol

[strong viper]

Maybe my rj isnt fast enough 🤔

[tall echo]

Base rj does struggle there

[ashen pulsar]

mine was near-base and I found it pretty simple tho

[tall echo]

But you get slowed to a crawl there no matter what

[ashen pulsar]

just prepare for the flares and plan your jumps

[strong viper]

Are there any other quests like tnw with lockouts?

[strange plinth]

that prevent you from doing other content until they're done? a few

[ashen pulsar]

hex is the next

I think

[strong viper]

Then ig 1999?

So no multiplayer during those?

[ashen pulsar]

idk if angels does, but it's like 30 mins so whatever

[ashen pulsar]

no

[strange plinth]

jade shadows, hex, pretty sure old peace does

[strong viper]

Yeah thats not so bad

[strong viper]

Oh cool. Cause my bro and i been aching to get back to farming

[ashen pulsar]

jade shadows is also 30 mins

[strong viper]

That one seems fun. Emotional Content.

[strange plinth]

veilbreaker does after a certain point but its also like. one long mission so its nbd

[ashen pulsar]

nah jade shadows is actually pretty boring imo

[strong viper]

I did not have the patience to save every ostron in the tower sadly

[ashen pulsar]

important lore stuff but kinda weak gameplay

[strong viper]

Well i do like the lore

[strange plinth]

don't worry ! that optional challenge does Literally Nothing

[strong viper]

I do quests more for that than gameplay

[ashen pulsar]

even the lore there, while valuable, is all in the last 5 minutes of the quest

[strange plinth]

the rest of the lore there kinda just goes back over stuff already known from like. the sacrifice

[strong viper]

Oof. Well i beat tnw at any rate 🙂

[hazy prism]

So the 3 demons that Uriel has, we can assume every Uriel had them?

[tall echo]

Likely

[ocean geyser]

what the hell does Roathe's secret thermostat thing do again?

is it tied to that villain/redeemed thing he has going on?

okay did some research
negative thermostat makes him evil
positive makes him good
ish?

[silk atlas]

Not ish that's just how it is. 5 or higher for redemption, -5 or lower for evil

[ocean geyser]

i see

[strange plinth]

its 0 or lower for evil, no?

[silk atlas]

Oh, huh

[fast dew]

0 and under is villain, but 0-5 is just failure iirc

[silk atlas]

I thought -5 to 5 was fail lol

[fast dew]

That would make the most sense

But this is DE, sometimes they don't make sense

[quiet tide]

Are Aya and Kuva related?

[restive river]

Beyond being used by the Orokin no
One is how they store memories
The other is how they jump their consciousness to a new body

[sharp igloo]

why is there different operators in some of the quest screens in the codex? does that mean that different tenno go through the different quests each time, or does it just not matter

[restive river]

Wdym?

[sharp igloo]

actually nvm, there’s only two, but i thought the operator that was showcased in the Old Peace from the devs was on the Old Peace quest screen, but nvm. there’s a different character for the operator that you can see in the War Within and the New War

[restive river]

Can you take a pic?
It may just be the promo art they used tbh

I know in some promo materials for cinematics they use the Operator stand in named Mara, which is also our name in the internal script
She is literally just a placeholder for us in the same way Pedro Pascal Drifter (fan name) is for our Drifter

[strange plinth]

yea looks like its just promo art, so no lore reason behind it
though the one in TNW's image looks a little closer to Mara

[restive river]

I believe that one is Mara

It paired with the cinematic trailer so

[strange plinth]

that would make sense, yea

[sharp igloo]

looking through albrecht computer logs, and one of them states that “Despite Margulis’s protests, they (Tenno) were placed into a state of lucid dreaming and used as Warframe pilots.” However, in the Old Peace, one of the cinematic show Margulis telling the Operator to sleep, or to dream or whatever. does that mean she knew then, or just that she knew but couldn’t do anything

[lean garden]

the logs take place prior to the Old Peace

its just you the Operator who is outside

[coral mirage]

Evening.
Meanwhile on Lua

[restive river]

AI ):

[strange plinth]

ew

[restive river]

1. Against the rules
2. Ew

[coral mirage]

ah shoot

alright alright, imma get pen and pencil tomorrow and do it

[restive river]

Heck yeah

[strange plinth]

that would be better

[restive river]

Notably thats not even what the kid looks like

Like the face is just incorrect entirely from what little bits we saw

[coral mirage]

In my defense im blind in my right eye so AI does a lot of the coloring aspect and sometimes train of thought just ya know, helps

[coral mirage]

true, its the angles, i mean even in a basic pencil sketch I will have a hard time putting it on paper

I just thought... i dunno, the dad in me saw the baby and just imagined what Sorren would do with Sirius everyday

[restive river]

Did you find this image :o

[coral mirage]

i asked gemini to render it, originally it made the baby jet black and i had to correct it.
Twice

[restive river]

Ah
I would advise against using AI image generators, while they may seem helpful they’re wasteful and to exist they literally have to steal from artists

Technically that would be an affront to the people who made Stalker and worked on that quest, to me at least
Human made > AI slop

[coral mirage]

I understand, I usually do a pencil sketch and then ask AIs to color it...
But then I get THIS... Like dude, why are the biceps covered?
What happened to the hemp ropes? Where did the red come from? Ok I like red but ya know..

and again, half the time im teaching AI tools to do what I want...

[restive river]

Yeahh, it’s just not a very good tool for what it wastes and for what it has to steal to do it

[coral mirage]

and dont get me started on so called AI video generators...

[restive river]

The Orokin were awful
But void damn they did cook with the anti-AI law

[coral mirage]

Ya mean anti Sentient Law

[strange plinth]

was made before the sentients were made
that was kinda a big point of contention when they were proposed

[restive river]

No, like literally no artificial intelligence on that level
The sentients came after that

[coral mirage]

but yeah, i would love to do a small Babyframe quest.
Yes, I would pay to have him crawl around for no reason with him ending with Stalker picking him and putting him to sleep on his crib

[restive river]

Ballas would 100% be one of those AI tech bros lmao

Whenever we get the sequel quest it’s gonna be fantastic

[coral mirage]

AI is... like, super buggy, I am talking were back to 90s level of buggy.
Im fine with it, sure, I pay over a dozen AI services and need to invest a good chunk of time to get back some ROI
But I mean, if I have to pick Saving Rhinos with AI and AI slop. Imma pick save Rhinos.
It does some good, just not a lot people see it :/

[restive river]

It’s a good tool but not in the realm of art and entertainment

[strange plinth]

analytical ai is alright, gen ai is not
unfortunately, everyone is focused on gen ai, which is where all of its problems are

[coral mirage]

ok yeah, i remeber the Napster days

totally legit claim (OMG Napster, god i blocke dthat OUT)

anyhoot, getting back on topic on the thread:
Kahl best boi

[restive river]

We have a lot of best bois

It’s great
And best girls!

And some best enbies
But we don’t have many to pick from

[coral mirage]

wait

when we play best girls?

i better not have missed that in the two week holiday marathon i did

[restive river]

Not ones we’ve played but
Ticker is best girl for sure

[coral mirage]

ok sure, yeah, and Lotus best Space Mom

also, Baruuk clearly has a MOUSTACHE and its the most obvious Wu Shu reference ever

[restive river]

And Teshin best Space Uncle (to Operator) and Space Dad (to Drifter)

[coral mirage]

ya CANT FOOL ME!

also Space Satan likes to pretend Indifference doesnt mean hes evil....

Look here Space Satan, heres an updated quote:
"The only necessary for the triumph of evil is for good PEOPLE to do nothing"

Since indiffernce doesnt care about anything, it makes evil permissible.

NOT ON MY WATCH

[zinc ether]

who tf is space satan

[strange plinth]

man in the wall, indifference, smiling one
wally
lots of names

[fast dew]

A lot of people tbh

[ashen pulsar]

lidless eye and wall of bones are also some pretty good ones

[strange plinth]

mhm

[ashen pulsar]

the wall's other face?

[coral mirage]

Wwait, how many names does it have?

[ashen pulsar]

think natah called it that

[ashen pulsar]

like 15 or 16? I think?

[coral mirage]

what is it a pokemon trainer? Gotta have them all?

[ashen pulsar]

all the characters who mention him have one or two names for him lol

[strange plinth]

Man In The Wall, Indifference, Lidless Eye, The Voices, Wall's Other Face, Other, Mighty Daemon Of The Void, Menace of the void, HIM, The Adversary, That Which Bears No Name, Wall of Bone, Smiling One, The Glory

[coral mirage]

i swear i get serious FMA but more to the malignant side vibes from it

[ashen pulsar]

yep

[coral mirage]

Space Satan

[ashen pulsar]

thas just u

[coral mirage]

Note to everyone, the word Satan, literally translates to Adversary

so it is actually, applicable

the monotheistic judeochristian based zoonatrism theological application came way later

[zinc ether]

thesaurus addict

[coral mirage]

ahem. History addict.
ALso mythology

I mean, if youre gonna label me, label me as accurate as possible

[zinc ether]

id rather not, left my thesaurus at home

[coral mirage]

42 old me learning as many languages as physically possible to break the barriers in human understanding and getting belittled as a thesaurus

a part of me should feel hurt... but gonna have to keep on trucking

[lean garden]

wdym Im right here

[coral mirage]

lawdy lawd

[junior jungle]

Is bansee being able to 1shot techrot babau with jump kick lore accurate?

[bright temple]

https://tenor.com/view/fuwamoco-internet-debate-bau-bau-gif-12436518011737535757

[high bay]

How did the Orokin Empire interact with time keeping? Like did they have months? Weeks? Days of the week? —> But then how was time kept between planets who had orbits of Sol that didn’t line up 1:1 with Lua or Mars or wherever the Orokin capital was? —> What would happen given that the planets all rotate at different speeds, how was time kept then?

[pale cedar]

There are trees with season names on them named after the Executors

Easily all they had to do was track the orbital speed which with it being a spacefaring Empire would’ve been even easier than it is irl

[restive river]

the Orokin are human
humans track time via the Earth as thats what we knew
we would continue to do that even on another planet

even with others in other parts of the systetm it makes sense to have agreed on and standardized time and timezones

also if we take into account the anniversary events as canon to any degree I believe we can still just go off 1 year in the Origin System is going off the Earth's roation around Sol

though iirc Earth would have maybe slowed down some in terms of its rotation, but not its orbit
so days and nights may not be 24 hours on Earth (they arent even exactly 24 hours now)

[reef radish]

Were all adults driven insane on the Zariman, or only those who were parents?

[restive river]

Most were driven insane but all parents were for sure driven insane

The Holdfasts, the ones that are left did not and died in other ways
But all parents went feral

I think the only argument against it wasn’t just the parents is Gyra but
I don’t even know if we know if she was human let alone had a child, she was a gift and not a traditional passenger so

But def all parents

[fluid panther]

I have a question, who is the Drifter refering to in the KIM chats with Lyon? You know, the person who harmed itself so badly to the point of no return.

[fast dew]

Noone in particular

Just room for you to be able to relate

[drowsy saddle]

Personal headcanon

Your drifter knew someone

[fluid panther]

Really? I thought I might have forgotten something from the new war

[strange turtle]

Yeah

It’s like how it lets you decide if you had a sibling or not, what happened to the parents, and details about your family life pre-zariman

[peak ether]

oof marie's convo about believing in albrecht was a lil rough, i think i chose the right options but i dont agree with her blind devotion to him

also just got the VC from roathe about how commanding orokin officers had specific kuva that would melt them if they died wtf

[tall echo]

No no, they'd get given so much kuva that it gooifies them

It's a volume thing not a specifics thing

...it's possible the melted commanders aren't even dead afterwards...

[peak ether]

jesus

even orokin arent safe from orokin

its not surprising per se but i didnt think it would be to that extent

[brittle siren]

I mean they prob don't want a bunch adaptive machine to be able to somehow absorb Kuva and Orokin enhanced body.

and Natah almost successful if Hunhow did not shake hand with Ballas

[pale cedar]

No such thing as safe in Warframe

Even Orbiter and Backroom ain't safe

[restive river]

Duviri was the closest and now it’s wrought by bad fanfics

[frank galleon]

i love the freaky eyeballs in the laboratory outdoor areas

[pale cedar]

You love being spied on?

[frank galleon]

is it spying if its kind of their house

[pale cedar]

It's spying on you so yes

[restive river]

They’re made to spy on Wally, no?
Like look for him

Or do they mean the eyes in the walls

[drowsy saddle]

their house in the sense that they tore a hole in your house and built a tunnel to connect it with theirs

[brittle siren]

Mirror defense eye or those on the walls

[frank galleon]

the ones inside the walls

[brittle siren]

yeah that Wally's eyes

[drowsy saddle]

wish i could poke ti

uriel's bayonet is right there

[frank galleon]

the first time i noticed it was in one of those voca rooms thats tucked away in a tiny space and it spooked me out

[pale cedar]

There's ones in sanctum too looking at us

[brittle siren]

I wish there is Wally eyes decoration

[pale cedar]

Wally doing a bit of spying

[brittle siren]

and you can buy 1 in Market so it could look at you in your orbiter or backroom

[frank galleon]

where?

[fast dew]

I wonder what happens if I poke em

[brittle siren]

Mirror defense phase 2

[frank galleon]

if its lidless then he cant protect the eye from being poked

[fast dew]

Tbf having lids also doesn't stop that

[brittle siren]

the wall is also the lid since, it can move

[pale cedar]

I'd tell you but I’m replaying New War to see updated faces in the quest

[brittle siren]

this thing

[restive river]

Vitruem iirc

Love those weird eyes

[brittle siren]

yep
you can also put it on Landing craft (although I wish it use default color)

[fast dew]

Albrecht's weird thing for sensory organs

[brittle siren]

it suppose to be a security system, which also suck

[fast dew]

Wait wasn't it loid who installed that shit

[frank galleon]

oooh

[brittle siren]

most thing is invented by Albrecht so I doubt Loid want to make sth like a giant human eye

[restive river]

He got the eye and ear where is the tongue and nose?

[fast dew]

For some strange reason I thought you meant piercings???

[restive river]

He only has those on the ears, no?

[fast dew]

Yeah idk why i thought that 😭

[restive river]

Lmao

[fast dew]

It did make me wonder if Loid would have a tongue piercing tho

[restive river]

Wait
Thomas

Hold on I’m gonna message you elsewhere

[drowsy saddle]

I mean... Loid has a nose ring

[fast dew]

-# its called a septum piercing

I mean yeah but nose is different to tongue

[drowsy saddle]

I might need to get my septum operated on but ehh

[fast dew]

Deviated septum or whatever its called?

But yeah, I wonder how that would feel...

[hidden cove]

Was the Parazon a retcon?

[fast dew]

Of what?

[hidden cove]

When I played in 2017 until 2018, it didn't exist

When I came back in 2023, every Warframe has it by default and the Lotus says as much when you assassinate the Jackal

[drowsy saddle]

Mostly so i don't clog my sinuses with allergy snot

I mean, could just be we forgor we had parazons

We forgor a lot of things

thanks Margulis

[hidden cove]

Now, we actively hack consoles using the Parazon when beforehand we would physically touch and mess with the console

[drowsy saddle]

Technically the operator and driver still tinker with terminal ls

[hidden cove]

The fact it can interact with any computer tech by stabbing it is pretty nuts too

Even 1999 tech

[drowsy saddle]

I like the detail that if the operator or drifter is hacking, you don't benefit from parazon mods

[hidden cove]

Yeah it's really neat

Speaking of which what even is the Parazon?

Is it some kind of Helminth Infestation organ that grows on Warframes when they're created or is it a separate tool that gets installed in them?

Infestation can assimilate and screw with tech (Mutalyst, Techrot) so I can see it being the former

[strong viper]

I think ballas filled that role more

[drowsy saddle]

Its definitely something tacked onto the frame, considering that railjack crews got their own custom variant

[strong viper]

I mean do we stab the usb or what

[drowsy saddle]

Robocop stabs computers too

[hidden cove]

Amir stabs the nuclear computer in 1999

[strong viper]

Smh bot on bot crime

[drowsy saddle]

Apparently in Detroit the standard for I/O ports is a damn shiv

[hidden cove]

While true, his spike is a USB spike and there are ports on machines he can plug it into

[drowsy saddle]

What's more its between his middle and ring finger

[hidden cove]

https://tenor.com/view/robocop-robocop-spike-shocked-scared-gif-16913686

Because apparently what technology needs to transfer data is a literal spearhead to go inside a computer lmfao

I won't complain about how ridiculous this is. We have what they'd consider supercomputers back when Robocop was released, in our actual pockets today

[strong viper]

Of course, the robocop port. We made those so robocop can access all of our hardware wherever he finds it.

[hidden cove]

Totally so he can't stab people hehe haha that's so ridiculous

Ite I gotta sleep

[strong viper]

Rest well, citizen. Do your part!

XD

[drowsy saddle]

Wait its not even being subtle, he's literally giving the middle finger

[prime grove]

Any warframe beats the DoomSlayer

[fast dew]

As much as I hate to say this, realistically? No.

[prime grove]

And whys that?

[fast dew]

There is a singular restriction.

Warframes aren't primevals. Because of a technicality, the slayer is a primeval, and warframes are not.

Only a primeval can kill a primeval

[drowsy saddle]

Doomslayer is literally only threatened by the creator of the universe; Himself but with red eyes and in a mechsuit

[fast dew]

This is doom lore too, not some made up metric

[prime grove]

Ok so tell me what's stopping revenant from just turning him into a thrall

Or nyx mind controlling him

[fast dew]

Ehh, the slayer has been shown that he can break out of biblical and biological mind control, so Im not sure how effective that could be

[fast dew]

Erm achtually its doomguy became like Davoth, after the seraphim's blessing he began to slowly change into davoth

[drowsy saddle]

Ehrm actually, the super shotgun doesn't care

[west oasis]

Just infect doomslayer with the helminth strain and release him to the grinner

[fast dew]

I wouldn't want to do that, I dont think we should be letting any shard of Davoth interact with the infestation

[west oasis]

Yap yap yap that's what a coward with no orokin sense of pride and lack of self preservation would say

[hybrid zealot]

I'm so lost on the lore for the devil's triad trio. I'm not sure if I accidently skipped a cut scene but they where just there after I did 1999 or old peace (as i did them just after the other). And Leon

And lyon doesn't talk to me for some reason

[fast dew]

Lyon, and yeah.

[marble pewter]

You have to reach “Liked” chemistry rank with Marie, then Lyon will start talking to you. He’s just very skeptical and cautious, especially after time travelling tbh

[warm garden]

guys how do you feel about this representation of the plot up to the old war? yes its not in english, yes its illegible, yes thats a chicken. does it do the quest justice?

[strange turtle]

You forgot the snail

[hybrid zealot]

And how do get to the liked chemistry

[strange turtle]

Talk with her

[woven coyote]

Being perhaps too blunt i cant tell the letters and arrows apart

[west oasis]

No they just pop up you only get the text from loid Roathe does discuss how he did it though

[west oasis]

Keep talking to her and whatever you do never lie to her

About Entarti or your faith

[west oasis]

Lyon is so cute

He talks or strict and stoic also is tormented by strange things but inside his just a cutie who is shy

[austere void]

do we know what the sentient Gara nuked looked like ?
apart from the remains here and there, like do we have some concept arts or something ?

[woven coyote]

Dont think so

[pale cedar]

No

[woven coyote]

Not even concept art

[west oasis]

Nope that also raises a different question in my mind

Are they eidolons on Tau

[austere void]

man, I really wanna know what it looked like

[woven coyote]

Well eidolons are zombies, and there was war on tau, so presumably there would be eidolons on tau

[austere void]

well ig nowadays it'd either be filled with eidolons, or some kind of enhanced Adis magic occured making them all not completely die or smth

[woven coyote]

Which thinking back was probably why phragasa worked, sun eating zombie mothership

[austere void]

ooooh interesting thought

imagine if, when we go back to tau in the present, we fight that quadruped boss sentient we killed in old piece, but now he's an eidolons 🔥

[woven coyote]

Unsure, so far eidolons seem to form only from major sentients, dont think the dactolyst would qualify

[strange turtle]

Yeah that was just a fragment

The Eidolons are themselves fragments of one of The Big Ones

[woven coyote]

Not to mention the dactolyst was cut off from their major sentient

Also just had a funny mental image

Murexes being fragments of phragasa and linking up side to side(the part the red light comes out of) and then linking up with phragasa making a giant serpent phragasa
System wide jormungandr sentient

[austere void]

yeah true

[hollow flare]

Alad V is called an orokin multiple times by different people, so I assume he is one. but he didn't know how the tenno worked during the second dream at least.

is it that very few among even the orokin knew about the kids?

[strange turtle]

Hes not an Orokin

[west oasis]

Only a few knew

[strange turtle]

Hes Corpus

[pale cedar]

He's called an Orokin because Hunhow is that racist

[hollow flare]

hunhow himself called him orokin during the second dream

[hollow flare]

oh

[west oasis]

Is he even old enough to be orokin?

He knows a bit about the genocide but not the true idea of warframes

[hollow flare]

also the second dream line about the truth of the tenno driving stalker to madness is not true anymore right? now he's for sure a conscious warframe like jade and umbra?

[woven coyote]

It for sure made him do a double take, his memories even now arent all there

[strange turtle]

Nope

[woven coyote]

Funniest plot twist would be aladv being a continuity'd orokin

[hollow flare]

idk how he'd keep getting kuva for it

[woven coyote]

Hunhow just quipping in transmission "told ya"

[hollow flare]

and if he had any he could also order teshin around

[woven coyote]

Wdym keep? There's only one aladv

Also the queens

And anyway it was just a funny idea

[hollow flare]

well to keep doing continuity

[woven coyote]

Continuity is just swapping bodies

[hollow flare]

u need kuva to do it

[woven coyote]

Yes and only needs to be done once

Crio like ballas, wakes up, continuity into aladv, no further need

[strange turtle]

Bodies can last over a thousand years

[hollow flare]

till the body gets old I'm pretty sure. they still aged just a lot slower and then swaped bodies

[dry oracle]

Why not use kenjaku ability to swap bodies

[woven coyote]

Again for the funny idea i proposed it only needs to be done once
So again no need for "keep getting kuva"

Not even a theory just imagining hunhow going "told ya"

[narrow pendant]

alad v has to be the most plot-armored person bc how tf does he survive the new war

they confirmed he isnt dead

[tall echo]

by not being on the front lines

[narrow pendant]

wasnt he on veso's ship?

[silk atlas]

No

[tall echo]

no

[silk atlas]

Even if he was he would've had his own nepo baby evac ship anyway

[woven coyote]

Aladv is crazy but not dumb, he wouldnt be on the ship closest to the frontline

[silk atlas]

This is easily and plainly the least weird of his active combat involvements

[narrow pendant]

also reminder there is a person called gregory v in 1999 and alad v's neck dish thing spells out alad gregory in corpus

[woven coyote]

At least 18 rad wars would probably make sure there is zero connection

As i understand that's how we can mess with 1999 with close to no consequences

Simply not enough of the old world left by the time of the orokin

[marble pewter]

To get to “Liked” you have to do KIM chats with Marie

[drowsy saddle]

Wait, isn't the reason albrecht went to 1999 is because it's such a pivotal moment in history?

[fast dew]

Loop

[marble pewter]

Yes Lyon is cute 100%

[fast dew]

Thats why

A loop.

[woven coyote]

Considering the presence of the infestation it still seems important regardless

[drowsy saddle]

Yeah i thought it was cause we smack lips fist and begin again

[river rover]

how did the indifference get into 1999?

[pale cedar]

Say that again ||so it loops||

[silk atlas]

Mostly because of the radiation from the reactor

[woven coyote]

The arg iirc

[river rover]

I don't know that arg

[fast dew]

Mhm.

Arg moment

[pale cedar]

Warframe players be sleepin on the args this game has

[woven coyote]

However the loop is too local the rad wars for sure account for some of the no consequences thing
After all temple and the coda outlast the loop

[narrow pendant]

the words he used was that its the only period in history the indifference cant follow him easily

[woven coyote]

Like something has to account for whatever the loop cant tether

[drowsy saddle]

Yes, because it has such a ripple effect on history that if wally tinkered too much, he'd suffer the consequences of cause and effect

Since he's, ya know... Missing a finger

[narrow pendant]

ahhh

[pale cedar]

I've never done ETA that must mean bad things are happening

[signal minnow]

I really hope for a Lavos Prime trailer where Ballas crashes out HARD that a Warframe primed himself without permission

[pale cedar]

Unlikely to happen

That’s only ever happened once

[fast dew]

We got that with Rev, best we have

[strange turtle]

I’d hope for Lavos’ Trailer we got something from an Entrati, to explain the connection

[tranquil steeple]

dont you mean "ball-ass" not ballas lol

[signal minnow]

u right

[fast dew]

Or Qorvex prime too

This Qorvexes me

[pale cedar]

I just want more lore in general

[fast dew]

I want more Loid lore

[pale cedar]

Why do I sense a hint of bias?

[fast dew]

No particular reason

You're schizophrenic

[pale cedar]

Books can be schizo now?

[fast dew]

Yes

[drowsy saddle]

Will Styanax even get a prime trailer? He already had a short animation for his base frame

[fast dew]

You have a mind and sensory organs

[drowsy saddle]

I mean... Albrecht's grimoire is right there

[fast dew]

The scathing whisper or whatever

... aint. Aint that conceptual embodiment actually

[tranquil steeple]

the whispers, i hear them in the walls

[pale cedar]

Why do Warframe players get shocked when the book called Nemesis is slightly antagonististic from time to time?

[tranquil steeple]

wouldnt you be surprised if a dude named "bad guy" was evil?

[pale cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/sarcastic-kirk-gif-5114900702923945841

The bad guy is evil now?

Impossible

[tranquil steeple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1099355372080353410/1261396751357841518/received_7762038400514691.gif

this cant be

[woven coyote]

I mean there is one franchise where the one named badguy is the good guy

[hollow flare]

https://tenor.com/view/potemkin-guilty-gear-gif-7674402435324656781

[pale cedar]

Warframe?

No good guys in Warframe

[woven coyote]

Guilty gear has a character with badguy as a surname and from what i heard he was a good guy

[strange turtle]

Konzu:

[hollow flare]

no

[pale cedar]

Konzu keeps skipping work to get early lunch this is really evil

[hollow flare]

I didn't know konzu was employed

[pale cedar]

He's the mission guy

[hollow flare]

well yes but he doesn't have a job in particular, he's just sending u to kill people for the love of the game

[pale cedar]

His job be protecting Cetus

Even if it means employing children

[hollow flare]

I don't think he knows

[pale cedar]

Someone should tell him he's hiring children

Actually he would know

We rescue him as Operator or Drifter

[hollow flare]

I guess after the new war many people know

[pale cedar]

Most of them died after finding out

[hollow flare]

also speaking of new war erra switching sides always seemed weird to me

[pale cedar]

It didn't

[hollow flare]

it felt so immediate

too convenient, I thought it was a trap till he died

[pale cedar]

Ballas saying he'd blow up the sun is a very legit reason to swap sides

[hollow flare]

well I don't think in the last cutscene we see erra (Before he swaps) Ballas didn't mention it

so I guess he made up his mind off camera

so on camera for me they were kinda having an arguement and then he came to help next

so it felt like another scheme

[pale cedar]

Erra wouldve been privy to the plan Ballas made

[hollow flare]

idk if he'd care that much

they all came from tau anyway

just go back

[pale cedar]

Not all Sentients came from Tau

There's Tauborn and then there's ones from Origin System sent to Tau

[hollow flare]

yes but natah was born on tau so erra might be too

[pale cedar]

Erra would be

[hollow flare]

I guess in since it's a system

[pale cedar]

A better inaccuracy you could think is who made all the fragments because they didn't swap sides when Erra or Hunhow or Natah swapped sides

[hollow flare]

they have some autonomy I think, in second dream or natah hunhow says he wasn't strong enough anymore to hold back the sentients or something if they went for lotus

like u need some amount of energy to issue commands on massive scale, and they keep following the last orders till u overwrite them

[pale cedar]

We see in TSD he was strong enough

He literally controls the sword when Stalker didn't want to attack us

And the units were all under his control still

[hollow flare]

I still don't know what hunhow's doing

he still sitting there in the water

[pale cedar]

Hunhow is trapped in the water

[hollow flare]

and now alone since stalker left

I thought it was like him hiding till natah would kill the tenno, then he'd pop back out

[pale cedar]

He can't just leave as he's already tried that

[hollow flare]

oh

do we know who did that?

[pale cedar]

The final part of Natah being a spy was killing us then letting him out

Ballas got to her first though

[hollow flare]

is hunhow just a bigger one of these?

[pale cedar]

Way bigger

[hollow flare]

he calls the sentients his fragments so I'm guessing he's the same class of this thing just massive

cuz these guys hold like a squad and hunhow led armies

[pale cedar]

Hunhow makes multiple fragment types

[hollow flare]

I feel like at some point we have to let him out, the orokin r gone and he kinda tolerates the tenno now too

[pale cedar]

He doesn't seem to want to leave

[hollow flare]

that's y I don't understand what he's doing down there

he doesn't look trapped

[pale cedar]

He is

The exit he had doesn't exist anymore

[tall echo]

(Not actually water btw)

[hollow flare]

Ik but I'm saying that he seems fairly content just sitting there

[pale cedar]

He's not even completely alone

[hollow flare]

how?

[pale cedar]

He rescued a Yareli

[hollow flare]

wait what? when did that happen?

[pale cedar]

Another of their number flows past my sodden grave. Did you see her, my Shadow? Of course you did... So unlike your perfunctory skulking, she rises resplendent—full of brazen, fragrant life. In my own lost vibrancy, oh how I would have reveled in snuffing out her playful joy!

Unfortunately, something beat me to the task, delivering only a wounded husk into my grasp.

I grow sentimental in my rot. Else I’ve been down here long enough to find kinship with my fellow jetsam. Instead of final death, I offered her the insult of rescue. A worldshaper’s breath “adapting” her shape to better survive our shared prison. And still her spirit did not break, my Shadow!

HUNHOW IN THE REAPER'S LAMENT

[main crane]

Reaper's Lament

Also Yareli Medeina (forgot how to spell) skin

[proper barn]

Okay so Sentients can be MASSIVE. Like the Ediolons on the plains are fragments of a larger main sentient.

[hollow flare]

https://tenor.com/view/bellebows-tiktok-dog-funny-silly-gif-26293491

[proper barn]

You didn't know that?

[hollow flare]

I thought they were a whole unit

[tall echo]

And iirc it was bigger than hunhow

[proper barn]

if they where fragments they would be way more threatening. Also yeah he was bigger than Hunhow.

[tall echo]

They're extremely incomplete forms of the nuked full plains sentient trying to rebuild itself

[proper barn]

No they where fragments of a sentient. It's why they just wander the plains aimlessly now. And why they are missing parts of themselves.

[tall echo]

2x or 3x as big right

[hollow flare]

oh damn

[proper barn]

Well they seem more like the same kind od fragments we fight of hunhows.

[tall echo]

I should've saved the graph

[proper barn]

But they are incomplete

And they endlessly walking around looking for parts they can't replace.

[tall echo]

Nah some text directly says they're bits of the sentient running on instinct

[proper barn]

@hollow flare it's why they each have like a arm or leg that's not sentient. Like Terry has A Tree and then one has a rock and then one has a piece of metal.

[proper barn]

Yes fragments are bits of the sentient.

[tall echo]

Ok but like. It's different

[proper barn]

Lul

"Different but the SAME."

[tall echo]

Fragments are in a hivemind, the eidolons are just parts of one mind

They're so disorganized because the mind is split across three

[hollow flare]

well praghasa is gigantic sentient too. so the plains guy is a similar size?

[lilac aspen]

The Eidolons are the deceased remains of a Giga sentient that was nuked

[tall echo]

HA no

[lilac aspen]

Basically imagine exploding a person and their remains come to life to try finding the rest of themself

[tall echo]

Praghasa is gigantic compared to the full sentient

[restive river]

Praghasa was like
The biggest

[lilac aspen]

To put in perspective
The plains sentient hitched a ride in Praghasa along with the others to make it here

[restive river]

Her job was take in matter, make more sentients iirc

[tall echo]

The orokin were losing the war for good reason

[restive river]

Well that and the sentients could hack their tech completely in an instant

[pale cedar]

Do you think the Zarimen are safe after this?

[lilac aspen]

Praghasa basically sacrificed her life by being a giant meat shield against the void to make sure the others did not die via the travel

[tall echo]

Imagine having to fight an army of galactuses who could also just take your equipment

[restive river]

Hence returning to “simpler” weapons and utilizing the Warframes

[hollow flare]

oh shit she's huge compared to their ships

[restive river]

Oh wait the Necramechs should have an organic component if the sentients aren’t hacking them, no?

[lilac aspen]

“The vaporize beam got hacked.”
“Get the Glock out.”

[tall echo]

Of course, she transported them

[lilac aspen]

Yes
They do

[restive river]

Uuhhhh
Yeah sure :)

[lilac aspen]

They’re like
The Prototype of the prototypes for warframes

[restive river]

Nothing specifies it afaik other than the blatant skull which we don’t know if its just style so

[restive river]

Not prototypes, they were the other attempt

[tall echo]

Precursors

[hollow flare]

is pragahasa sentient? not the race I mean like can she think and shit like hunhow?

[tall echo]

Could, once

[restive river]

“The Orokin claimed Necramechs weren't smart enough to face an enemy that could learn, and retired them early. But my boneheads shrug off Sentient pulses like the morning dew. So I reckon between your 'frames and my old dusted-off war rigs, we might just have a hope in hell. Come see me on Deimos."

[restive river]

Competitors

[tall echo]

She was brought near death both mental and physical during her void jump to the origin system

[silk atlas]

Used to before the Void fried her

[hollow flare]

oh

so in tau this was a fully functional being

[restive river]

Ah no I found it
I don’t think anything says they’re biological unless this counts

Father: "Look, you were the second wave, kid. The Necramechs were Void-shielded, Sentient-pulse-immune… as bright as a bag of hammers and just as dependable. Not like you."

Necramechs are just too lowtech lmao

[restive river]

And prior to Tau as she was one of the ones that made the rail iirc

[glossy dew]

I wonder just how low tech they are for the sentients to not be able to hack them

[restive river]

Good question!

[pale cedar]

What does pulse immune even mean?

[glacial bough]

Not particularly. Orphix established that Mecha are hardened against sentient pulse, somehow

[restive river]

Yeah I got there lol

[wise quiver]

So, has it been discussed somewhere on what the difference between the protoframes and Umbra is?

[pale cedar]

One has a burning memory on repeat the other doesn't

[waxen mesa]

does the Opeartor/Drifter know who Mother is? or is her true name something only the us out of universe knows

[pale cedar]

Drifter literally heard her on repeat for over 1000 years

[quick wadi]

IIRC Umbra was given the normal warframe juice and just kept his sentience by being real real mad, more of an anomaly than anything. Or it might have been a special strain from ballas to make him stay just sentient enough to suffer I don't remmeber

Protoframes were given a modified strain that stops partway or is slow acting so it won't take them completely over for a while

[waxen mesa]

Does the Drifter hear her? is there evidence to say the narrator's voice is heard in canon

[wise quiver]

Right, yeah, so uh, I get that, but also...I guess it's a question of lore vs mechanics. The protoframes should be able to walk around when we transference out of them yet gameplay wise they don't...is there a lore explanation as to why or is it just one of those funny "well haha lore wise they should but uh...gameplay hasn't caught up."

[wise quiver]

Right, cause the Temple we find and build is actually Flare who just waited on a asteroid/comet for a long ass time...

[pale cedar]

Same reason ours don't

We're calming them because they do still hear the Infested Madness

[quick wadi]

I'm like 90% sure when you're being the protoframes that's not supposed to be them actually there out in the origin system. That's more if a gamified wink wink thing

[wise quiver]

Uriel has some...well I should double check, but I recall him having a voice line specifically about "choosing not to" walk around.

[waxen mesa]

there is a lore reason.

There's an implication they can't move on their own when being taken into the present

there's also an implication they willingly choose to stand still and wait for us to pilot them again

[quick wadi]

Are they actually being taken to the present?

[pale cedar]

Yes

[waxen mesa]

Yes, The drifter theorizes in KIM they could temporarily take the protoframes to the present via transference

[wise quiver]

"Ah, I can move independently once more! But why bother?"
Quote from Roathe's gemini skin

[silk atlas]

Drifter in a KIM message or two posits it as a possible way to get them out of 1999 but nothing in lore says they've tried it.

[waxen mesa]

"Don't forget where you parked me" -One of the Hex I forget which. Arthur maybe?

[wise quiver]

Sounds like something Amir would say

[waxen mesa]

maybe

I think Amir has a 'can move but chooses not to' line though. he says som ething like "Should I just wait here...ill just wait here."

[blissful merlin]

That’s Arthur yea

[blissful merlin]

And yep. His is “soooo I just wait here? Cool…cool cool”

Another one is “it’s ok! I’ve got my games!”

[waxen mesa]

so there is implication both ends, but honestly I think we're just supposed to understand the Operator/Drifter tells the protoframe to stay put

or they just decide to not get in the way on their own

[quick wadi]

I'm still of the mind it's more of a winky gamified thing cause if they were constantly being pulled into the grimdark future in a real lore-relevant way it would at least be talked about. And Kaya getting out for real wouldn't nearly as notable

[wise quiver]

I'd rather...have an easier time understanding it if it was some weird eternalism/time travel shenanigans of needing the operator/drifter to let them move because of the time displacement thing.

[waxen mesa]

which honestly I can get. Sometimes they're supposed to shoot the corpus. sometimes they aren't. sometimes they are supposed to let enemies group up, sometimes they are supposed to shoot every enemy they see. It's confusing. best to just let the tenno take care of everything and wait for further instructions

[wise quiver]

So, we're to just assume that Umbra is just...literally a feral animal going rampage on everything.

[waxen mesa]

Umbra is...definintely on that line of feral/sapient

[quick wadi]

Pretty much, that's what all warframes are in their default state most of the time

[wise quiver]

Eh...I'd argue no...I think a lot of people would argue no.

[silk atlas]

We did calm him so it's really just the fact DE doesn't want to bother with the Umbra system for other frames because people hated the idea.

[wise quiver]

They love the idea, hate how it was going to be implemented.

[waxen mesa]

I still wouldn't say Umbra is fully sapient. Probably closer to sentient then full warframe though

[quick wadi]

The whole point of the operator thing was done was cause the warframe strain eroded people's minds making them psychotic except for some rare cases

[waxen mesa]

and also that non tenno transference lead to death

[quick wadi]

that too

[wise quiver]

I thought they just went psychotic cause...ya know, infested madness/orokin abuse.

[quick wadi]

well the result is still the same

[quick wadi]

If anything I would say it might have been somewhat lessened after the sacrifice since we helped calm his mind and probably lessened that laser focused hate

[waxen mesa]

heres a better lore question for chat

are deimos fish like mud skippers where they can be out of water. or do they ultimately not even need the "water" to survive

[quick wadi]

Seeing as they're infested creatures I imagine they could survive out of the fluid or whatever

[wise quiver]

Temple. Hibernated on an asteroid or whatever until we found em

[waxen mesa]

given how thick it is i can't imagine its a good medium for oxygen

[pale cedar]

They adapted

[restive river]

Idk if you got an answer but

“In Duviri, I woke every day to the voice of my daughter. I recoiled from this at first, feeling the sting of conscience. I could not confront, even in semblance, the woman I had abandoned. Instead, I reinvented myself as a teacher, advising the child-king of the menace beyond his borders.” Albrecht Duviri Note

[waxen mesa]

i did not but thank you

[empty terrace]

Finished war within and damn it was more peak

It keeps getting better and better. But still confused on some points.

So if I got it right zariman was some kind of space crew and they turned into tenno race. Orokin wanted to get rid of them but magulis prevented that. And tenno can control the Warframes. But I'm still confused. Teshin called himself Dex so he's not tenno? Also during natah quest there was some weird point of lotus/natah being mother figure to tenno and hid them in Lua to protect them. But in war within this magulis character did that. So who actually did save tennos magulis or lotus.
And poor queen she just wanted to get premium skin. She could've just traded some prime parts for platinum.

Also at the end of the quest I decided to control the staff and the operator turned a little bit creepy for a while until teshin touched them again.

Also that queen implied that the zariman crew was only made of children and the operator killed their parents. That's interesting 🤔

Bro spoilers. I'm still new and playing quest

I stopped reading after first sentence

[mystic lynx]

Wait I'm do dumb i read that as new war

Mb

[strange turtle]

They’re void-shielded

Oh nvm you already found the thing

[restive river]

Ahem.

That’s twice now lmao

[pale cedar]

It wasn't there were adults it's just that only the children survived which you will learn more about later

[eager dragon]

Teshin is a Dax, yes, which were basically super-soldiers for the Orokin, and the bulk of their military together with the Grineer.

The Margulis vs Lotus thing will be answered later.

The Zariman was a colony ship. Don't recall if it's mentioned to where or what happened to it exactly by your point but it's explained later anyways, so I'll leave it at that.

[pale cedar]

The Margulis vs Lotus thing was already explained tbh

[peak ether]

In TWW one of the dialogue options the emotional choice says “They were nothing but animals by then. So I hunted.”

[eager dragon]

Yes, but it goes into more detail between Apostasy Prologue -> New War line, I would say.

[waxen mesa]

i think im big dumb. what is TWW

[eager dragon]

Unless you mean Lua in specific?

[eager dragon]

The War Within

[peak ether]

Acronym for The War Within

[waxen mesa]

so i am big dumb then. curious

anyway not too sure where they got the impression the zariman was a child crew. there were children aboard in the hundreds. it was a big ship

given it was a colony ship I imagine adults with children were given priority

[peak ether]

In the ember prime codex lore indicates that the general public didn’t know children were even on board in the first place, it was suppose to be a ship of adults

[waxen mesa]

🤔 curious

[eager dragon]

Atleast after the incident, anyways.

[waxen mesa]

I suppose humanity was well above the double digit billions so a few hundred kids no longer being around would fly under the radar

[pale cedar]

Apostasy and New War don't explain it in detail the detail is called paying attention in Natah, Second Dream and TWW which gives you all the details

[peak ether]

Ik it’s not accurate because gameplay but based on the elevator in the Zariman it’s practically as big as a city if not country

[peak ether]

There’s a lot of obscure lore, you should read Stalker’s, Ember P, Rhino P and Mags codex entries if you haven’t already

[pale cedar]

The elevator isn't an accurate measurement at all because the elevator is literally infinite space till you load in

[eager dragon]

I feel like the split between Natah and Margulis is explained more so after Apostasy (Sacrifice, Prelude, NW). The SD and WW don't really mention anything regarding that, and in Natah it's rather superficious.

And then, we don't even get a proper answer regarding who puts us to sleep until the Old Peace.

[peak ether]

Ordis’ Lore takes more effort to get in game because you need to complete all cephalon scans in every planet to get the whole thing but you can watch a vid on that, one of my more favourite obscure lores in game

[pale cedar]

You get some of it from Brutus anyway

[eager dragon]

Only thing we know by the WW, if I'm not forgetting anything, is that the Lotus was the one to hide Lua in the Void.

[marble pewter]

It’s worth it tho yea

[eager dragon]

Is it still there, now that the Operation is over? Never bothered playing it after all the grind during both runs of the event.

[strange turtle]

According to the Fortuna ARG there’s at least like 30,000 Tenno, so that’s at least that many children on the ship

[marble pewter]

30,000 damn..

[peak ether]

Hold up, Margulis Puts us to sleep in Old Peace and With lotus we “kill” erra did she wake us up and put us back to sleep again?

[strange turtle]

Though that might’ve been something to do with actual player population? In which case it can be disregarded

[pale cedar]

Yeah, node is permanent

[strange turtle]

Idr what actually happened during it

[waxen mesa]

Drifter's estimate was "a hundred" so idk if that 30k number is still accurate

[eager dragon]

True, although the Drifter says in the hundreds.

Personally I'm leaning more towards the ARG numbers considering the size of the Zariman, but I dunno.

[strange turtle]

“I don’t know,a hundred?”

[pale cedar]

In the hundreds is a guess at best tbh

[eager dragon]

Yes, but is the dialogue still there? With Parvos and everything.

[pale cedar]

Yep

[marble pewter]

What’s interesting though is someone did calculate the dimensions for the Zariman ship on a Reddit post.. which was..cool

[eager dragon]

And it being an entire state in size, if I'm remembering right.

[waxen mesa]

how do you even do that

[marble pewter]

I wish I can link the post hold on

[strange turtle]

With them not actually taking the guess seriously and just throwing it out there to tell Roathe “a lot more than me”

[eager dragon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1qbeyh6/measuring_the_zariman_100/

[peak ether]

Lotus dead ass woke us up just to kill her brother and put us back on ice?

[pale cedar]

It's impossible to get a Tenno amount past a guess unless Lotus says an exact number because we wouldn't have even witnessed them all

[marble pewter]

Yea this one thank you

[eager dragon]

I wouldn't call us... "awake" in Erra.

[marble pewter]

Then someone added the measurements for the depth of the ship in the comments

[eager dragon]

What with the Wally eyes and everything.

And the way she controlled our movement.

It very much felt to me more so like some delirious half-sleep state.

Not fully awake.

[peak ether]

Okay instead, she pulls us out of the pods like pulling a 9mm out of a bedside drawer and shot us at her brother and just put us back in there

[pale cedar]

Measuring it accurately is impossible because there's places we don't visit in the ship

[eager dragon]

That is my interpretation, yes.

Don't think there is any confirmation in either direction though.

[marble pewter]

Yea that’s true. But as a rough estimate would it be worth noting?

[eager dragon]

I feel like it's good enough that 30k children could absolutely fit on it with spare room.

Which is why I'm leaning more towards the 10s of thousands of Tenno rather than a hundred.

[silk atlas]

Not really... DE could just slap a number out as they please if they'll ever get more confident in saying what the scale of the Tenno is. Drifter remarks "hundreds" off-handedly in a Roathe convo.

Oh, even worse, "like, a hundred of them"

[peak ether]

Plus all the Lunaro courts, parks, schools etc

[eager dragon]

Obviously many would perish before the Operator made the deal

But for a ship of this scale?

100 Tenno?

Feels awfully small.

[marble pewter]

That’s what came to mind.. hmm so only “hundreds” survived then?

That’s bleak honestly

[eager dragon]

Especially considering that we also formed schools of thought, dojos, and a pseudo-culture.

[peak ether]

I wouldn’t say hundreds survived either considering there are multiple frames of the same to pilot

[eager dragon]

I just don't buy it.

Maybe it's a hundred awake Tenno?

[silk atlas]

That's not counting all the time between the Zariman and now with the fact many of them got captured and trapped in their Warframes, and even the ones hunted down by Vor and such after that.

[eager dragon]

Considering how it's treated the count of that happening is probably miserable.

[peak ether]

Oh god yeah, I wonder how many Tenno never woke up because their warframe got dissected by Alad so they basically think their dead

[ashen pulsar]

or stalker stalked them

you've gotta kill a lot of tenno to be known as the tenno killer, i'd assume

[eager dragon]

Realistically probably not much more than the ones on Tau we know about.

[silk atlas]

All the Tenno minus Rell were in the sleep, we've known this for years.

[ashen pulsar]

there's probably a few thousand or so tenno alive rn

[eager dragon]

Well, yes, but he also complains with Hunhow about them "rising again".

[peak ether]

Speaking of the schools, my little headcanon is that depending on which school the Tenno graduated from determined which frame they were assigned to pilot

[eager dragon]

So I doubt he ever killed any real Tenno, atleast pre-Second Dream.

[ashen pulsar]

wdym

[eager dragon]

Well, not him.

But Hunhow says "you strike them down yet they rise again"

Or something along that line.

So obviously he never managed to get beyond the warframe part.

[peak ether]

https://tenor.com/view/onepixel-oop-oopdao-gif-24467949

[ashen pulsar]

that or it means he killed a ton of tenno yet they keep coming, no?

[peak ether]

How I imagine Hunhow and stalker after he comes back from a hunt and he just breaks down “they just keep coming back wtf are they!?”

[eager dragon]

Probably not considering the context within the quest (finding the real Tenno/Operators), but even so that would disqualify the thought that there are only a hundred Tenno, since even one would be a major loss.

[silk atlas]

There only "around a hundred" now, if we take Drifter's comment at face value.

It's not like they all just got killed the moment the Zariman was recovered so them making Schools in the thousands of years past still makes sense.

[ashen pulsar]

well... if a tenno dies in their frame, don't they die?

without outside help like adis

[waxen mesa]

With Adis it's a bit more up in the air

[silk atlas]

They usually don't.

That's what made the gas in the Old Peace quiz hidden lore so terrifying.

[waxen mesa]

but at least pre old peace. The tenno would just return to truer sleep, if they were awoken then they'd wake up at the ship

[ashen pulsar]

did adis not nearly kill us through excal tho

[waxen mesa]

or be torn from the frame if they possess the frames like Operator does

[eager dragon]

I don't see how that many Tenno could possibly die between the Zariman and present day though, assuming there was atleast a thousand.

[waxen mesa]

weren't we under the 'radiation'?

[eager dragon]

Even 100 Tenno dying is a stretch, post deal.

[waxen mesa]

I know there are two moments in Old Peace where you can hear you failing to transfer out of the frame

[silk atlas]

You have to remember this was in the span of thousands of years and there was a massive war and the entire collapse of the Orokin Empire between that.

[ashen pulsar]

the what

[waxen mesa]

The new war was an actual war

I'm sure a lot of tenno died during the new war

[eager dragon]

My interpretation was more so that we would go unconscious and thus let the Orokin recover us and Adis just made the process go faster.

[waxen mesa]

unless we are defining present day as 'new account'

[eager dragon]

Through which we spent most of our time sleeping.

[ashen pulsar]

how long were we out of it for the new war? had to be a few years right?

[silk atlas]

There was a special radiation mentioned in the Old Peace personality quiz thing that keep a Tenno trapped in their Warframe. "Permanently."

[ashen pulsar]

ohh ok

[waxen mesa]

well we do know that the 'radiation' can kill tenno. Like actually kill tenno

locks them in the frame and if the frame dies they die.

[eager dragon]

Well, no, it keeps at trapped in the frame which then, if destroyed, kills us.

The Operator was very much not in the frame while Adis heals us.

[waxen mesa]

if we were under the radiation and excalibur was damaged to the point it couldn't be used anymore, I imagine we'd be pretty hurt

[eager dragon]

Also the radiation is seemingly exclusive to some areas under the Worldseeders.

While we don't know for how long the effects last

I doubt it was the radiation.

Feels more like a set up for the future.

[waxen mesa]

not just active ones. Any of the egg structures

we were rad'd when fighting the...whateveralyst

[ashen pulsar]

yeah I don't think we're under the effects of radiation tho

[waxen mesa]

Hunhilus could emit it.

when being piloted that is

[eager dragon]

Huh, where is that mentioned?

[silk atlas]

Nowhere

[ashen pulsar]

we did eventually transfer out and the radiation was mentioned to be "a special kind of radiation that only occurs in one spot."

[waxen mesa]

I could be misremembering but I think the failing to use transference sound plays during the intro of Old Peace during the fake fight

either way i dont have much evidence to back it up other then 'could be'

[ashen pulsar]

I don't remember and it wouldn't make sense

[waxen mesa]

gimme a sec ill watch a video

[ashen pulsar]

again we were told it only occurs in one spot

[silk atlas]

Yeah the first time the weird Transference stuff happens was with the Dactolyst.

[waxen mesa]

https://youtu.be/Rr3LnnTETso?t=359

plays after hearing Wally

time stamp is a tad bit late

[waxen mesa]

or right on time....idk. my point is it plays

[silk atlas]

Welp.

[waxen mesa]

so the Hunhilis arena is under the radiation

[ashen pulsar]

shit I missed that

[ashen pulsar]

the other possible explanation is wally suppressing it

[waxen mesa]

I suppose yes but my ultimate point of all of this is

If we are locked into the warframe, any damage it takes we also take

and there is evidence to support that we could be locked in while fighting hunhilis, for whatever reason

[ashen pulsar]

so would it be safe to assume the tenno only dies if they don't transfer out? as in, if they could but they don't.

[waxen mesa]

no?

[ashen pulsar]

why would we take the damage of the frame only when we have the ability to transfer out but don't

[waxen mesa]

because we can't transfer out

[ashen pulsar]

wait I said that wrong

[silk atlas]

The wiki transcrips seems to just be pinning the laughter from Operator, not Wally.

[waxen mesa]

are you using that to say i'm wrong about the radiation during hunhillis?

[silk atlas]

If you're referring to the first fight specifically, yes.

[ashen pulsar]

why would we take the damage of the frame when we can't transfer out, but not take the damage when we can? the ability to transfer out doesn't correlate to taking dmg inside the frame

[waxen mesa]

who's laughing is the least important thing going on

the point is the sound of transference failing

[ashen pulsar]

kinda yeah, we literally do transfer out like 5 seconds later

[waxen mesa]

you can hear it during the clip

the sound of transference failing

[silk atlas]

Yeah but that doesn't change that we do it right after no issues.

[ashen pulsar]

could be wally suppressing if it's wally laughing, or a different thing altogether

[waxen mesa]

that doesnt happen until after Adis stops piloting it

[ashen pulsar]

wouldn't make sense for a well-known sentient weapon to be able to emit a type of radiation that was discovered and kept well under wraps by the orokin during a time of peace.

[waxen mesa]

that doesn't change what is in the video

[ashen pulsar]

we dont know what it means in the video

we just know it sounds like it happens

we don't even know if it actually is happening, it just sounds like it

[waxen mesa]

We fight HunHullus, we can not transfer out

Adis exists hunhullus, we can transfer out

we hear the same sound when fighting Dactolyst and Operator talks about how they had to kill them as if they couldn't transfer out and their life was on the line.

I get y'all don't want to agree with me but it really feels like you're picking hairs and doubtting evidence for the sake of not saying my theory holds water

[ashen pulsar]

it doesn't make much sense tho

there isn't a logical explanation for that

[silk atlas]

Mel.

[waxen mesa]

there isn't a logical explanation that an orokin piece of machinery sent to Tau could emit a radiation similar to that found around a piece of orokin machinery sent to Tau?

Perhaps, hear me out, something's up with Tau

[ashen pulsar]

it's called a natural anomaly by the person who tells us about it

[silk atlas]

To be frank there's a lot of "something's" up with Tau

[waxen mesa]

it's an unknown phenominom ATM. They are not experts on it and they make it clear

and if its natural. that further proves my ultimate point of all of this

because we fight hunhillis in the same location twice

[ashen pulsar]

it's not the location and I thought you were arguing that too

[waxen mesa]

both times adis was piloting hunhullus

both times we were in the same location

my ultimately point is that

If we are locked into a warframe, we take the damage they take. This is why Adis had to revive us

because Adis destroyed Excalibur Prime

destroyed meaning "too damaged to pilot" before someone nitpicks that

[ashen pulsar]

I agree with this, but I also was asking earlier, why wouldn't we take the damage if we chose to stay in?

[waxen mesa]

we wouldn't

[ashen pulsar]

why not

[waxen mesa]

we were not choosing to stay in when fighting Hunhullus

because...we don't? why would we

[ashen pulsar]

we're still in the frame tho, why wouldn't we take the damage

[waxen mesa]

If we are locked in, we take damage because we are fused with the frame

If we are not locked in, we do not take damage because we are possessing the frame

think of the operator like a loose soul

When not locked in they are puppeting it

when locked in the warframe IS their body

the soul can be damaged if their body takes damage. but a non locked frame is not their body

[ashen pulsar]

anyways the point im trying to come around to was, if a sleeping tenno gets killed in a warframe, what happens to them?

like during the second dream

[waxen mesa]

back to deeper sleep

[ashen pulsar]

they aren't locked in like the radiation but they aren't capable of transfering out

[wise quiver]

We don't really know do we?

[ashen pulsar]

do they wake up?

[waxen mesa]

Consider there to be two types of transference

Machine assisted, (via chair or pod)

possessed

machine assited tenno go back to where they truly are. For sleeping teno this is a cryopod. They are locked in sleep until woken up or somehow given a new frame

[hidden cove]

Lmao speaking of which

[waxen mesa]

Possed tenno are ripped from the body

if a possessed tenno can not exit, they get hurt

[silk atlas]

The fact the Lotus is scared of the Warframe being snatched in Awakening even when she knows about the Tenno's secret before TWW pops its head is odd

[waxen mesa]

if a machine asssisted tenno can not exit, they are probably fine

or maybe they'd burn out. thats a possibility too

[ashen pulsar]

possession is just machine assisted but transference is locked.

is it not?

[wise quiver]

We still don't know how common it is for a singular tenno to have multiple warframes.

[waxen mesa]

no

possession is what we do post Kuva fortress

its why we can exit the frame and walk away

[ashen pulsar]

then why do we have a pod in the orbiter

[waxen mesa]

because we used to use machine assisted

before kuva fort mission when we realized we didn't need it

we still sit in the chair because gameplay reasons. I''m sorry I know that's lame but that's just where DE keeps the operator so they are in a static place. chair already existed so might as well keep it there

[wise quiver]

Thus lotus being scared of the frame being snatched makes sense if that warframe is the only link our operator/tenno has outside of lua, cause at this time we are in a pod on lua, so losing the frame means no new signal.

[waxen mesa]

I would assume that it's hard to resync a pod tenno to a new warframe,

alternatively. A acaris'd warframe can still be transferred into by a tenno. An unawoken tenno wouldn't be able to untransfer as they don't know they can so they ultimately get into a soft locked in state

[wise quiver]

Here's the issue with that, where does that fall in the timeline? As per the old peace we were direct possesing our frame. At the end of it, we are presumably going to lua to be put in that pod. So at what point were our operators using the pod on the orbiter?

[waxen mesa]

that'd be the gap between when you awake and learn how to transfer out in mission

that was an actual gap.

[wise quiver]

So you're saying the pod on the orbiter was made after lotus threw lua into the void and all that jazz?

[waxen mesa]

no it was always there

[wise quiver]

That's what I'm getting at.

[waxen mesa]

??????]

[wise quiver]

I'm talking about at what point before the game were teh tenno in need of the pod on the ship?

And then why was it left there?

[waxen mesa]

because the orbitor is designed for tenno use

it has a chair so the tenno could sit upon it and control a warframe

us getting put into pods wasn't the plan

[wise quiver]

Right. But the tenno, by at least mid way through the war, could control the warframes without the chair. And then after that point they were put away on lua, at both those points there is no need for the chair on the orbiter to exist.

[ashen pulsar]

us using direct transference also shouldn't have been the plan, right?

[waxen mesa]

yes

that's why the chair is there.

[ashen pulsar]

why are we doing it at a school

[wise quiver]

Hek that, we did it infront of Ballas of all people.

[waxen mesa]

no transference chair that's not a special orokin one the tenno aren't allowed to ruin

[ashen pulsar]

why is this school letting valuable students die to the ascaris

[feral cape]

Hax resistances probably

[waxen mesa]

because...the orokin have been very vocal about never actually caring about the tenno

they are tools to the orokin. Orokin are absolutely the type to rather risk breaking a weapon then to give up their special chair

We also have to consider the fact that lore is being built onto

the chair could be in the orbitor because DE didn't know they wanted to do transference different yet

and it'd be weird to just delete the chair and pretend it never happened

[ashen pulsar]

idk seems more like a plothole, the orokin aren't the type to care about spending some money on tenno versions of fancy seats to keep their weapons intact anyways

[waxen mesa]

not even saying tenno version. 'not gold plated' version

i feel like we're getting off topic severely here

[ashen pulsar]

yeah that one was kinda an offhanded comment to address that. it seems more like a plot hole than an intentional decision so we can ignore that

[waxen mesa]

we have cutscenes saying te operator does not need to use the chair anymore. in plain spoken words

this implies they used to need it

therefore we can assume there are two types of transference

[proper barn]

Well the tenno can't like "function." Without the transference chair. Also Ballas did use the tenno as basically elite soilders.

[waxen mesa]

asleep tenno and pre kuva forttress tenno used machine assisted

[proper barn]

Which even their normal soilders are gilded.

[ashen pulsar]

come to think of it where are we when we use direct transference

[waxen mesa]

there

[ashen pulsar]

where is there

[waxen mesa]

you are physically inside your warframe when possession transference is being used

it's just if you are not locked in, you are like a ghost possessing it

[proper barn]

Yes.

[waxen mesa]

vs locked in where you are the warframe become one

machine assisted tenno can not truly get locked in but they can get locked in their physical bodies if they are unable to wake up from the transference chair

[ashen pulsar]

okay so we're in void mode inside the warframe, where are we when we pull it on a golden maw

[waxen mesa]

in the fish

[ashen pulsar]

how

[waxen mesa]

possession is real in warframe universe. you a normal human have the ability to possess someone else if the right equipment is present

the golden maw has a transference bolt or is sufficently biotech enough you can transference into them without a bolt

[ashen pulsar]

okay are we just a little swirl of void particles inside the brain then

[waxen mesa]

I mean we're getting into a bit of minor details DE hasn't covered

where are we located inside a warframe specifically? who knows and it frankly doesn't matter

[ashen pulsar]

I was just curious

[ashen pulsar]

they can tho

[waxen mesa]

well tone does not convey well over text and i've been defending a theory for uhh

like an hour

so things are a bit easy to intreprate as a counter evidence

[ashen pulsar]

anyways my theory overall was that tenno in the second dream wont survive warframes being killed or will fall into a coma, which explains stalker being known as the tenno killer. but it sounds like he just kills warframes or something

[waxen mesa]

yes then we agree. unawoken tenno go into a coma if their warframe is destroyed

[ashen pulsar]

whether or not they wake up again is my question

[waxen mesa]

that is the question

it really just depends on 2 things

[tall echo]

Wherever we used it from

[waxen mesa]

1. Can Lotus resync an unawoken tenno to a warframe

2. can zanuka hunters spawn pre getting awoken

if a zanuka hunter can spawn and steal your warframe before you get your operator. then the answer is yes

if it can't then it's still "who knows"

[tall echo]

Anything organic can be transferenced into

[waxen mesa]

i guess you right

doesn't matter a whole lot in the context of the question tho

[tall echo]

Yea

[waxen mesa]

Anyway. at the risk of starting this all over again which im not doing

[tall echo]

Presumably only if the link is cut in time

[waxen mesa]

Scrap do you agree with me?

That Adis had to revive us at the end of Old Peace because we were locked into Excalibur Prime during the fight

[swift sentinel]

We transferred out so we could not have been locked in

[tall echo]

We transference out before he sacrifices himself, but evidently close to death somehow

[waxen mesa]

if you mean the intro

we were locked in until adis exited, only then did we transfer out

[swift sentinel]

No at the end where we die

[waxen mesa]

if you mean the boss fight then IDK

but i'm willing to bet it involved us transfering out after Adis exited