lore-discussion

[fast dew]

We have 2 other dax with names 😭

[brittle siren]

Still they ignore her name

[fast dew]

And given how down Varzia is for Maroo and Teshin, they were allowed to do shit in their own ranks or below

Bi queen fr

[brittle siren]

Funny that Daxes can have family but Low Guardian can't

[brittle siren]

What if we tell her that Teshin is much hotter in Duviri

[fast dew]

Don't tell her that, she might go do a void dive and make another wally

[brittle siren]

Also, do Daxes ever see the other Dax's upper face?

[fast dew]

Id assume that they do?

[brittle siren]

From my understanding, it seems like Low Guardian acts like monks, they have to be pure. Probably because Jade is pregnant was considered as impurity, Ballas decided to punish both

[fast dew]

Ill respond soon im fighting for my life in 41⁰c heat

[brittle siren]

At my place it 25C

[fast dew]

Im outside cus i wanted to get pizza 😭

Im the hex fr

[brittle siren]

Im outside too

Asia is very cold these day

[fast dew]

Im so jealous.

[silk atlas]

<@&778745217037238293>

[tight silo]

Someone must have got hacked 😅

[restive river]

3
Galastra

[restive river]

I don’t think that’s what that means
She’s unshackled from the empire and free to love who she wants now

Also while Teshin was in love I don’t think we know if it was against the legems or not

[sharp igloo]

was the leverian accessible before the second dream? i’m reading nezhas, and the last sentence would be a nice foreshadow for any tenno pre-second dream quest. “What could a Warframe, a lethal specialist warrior, possibly have in common with a child? That riddle, I fear, must remain a riddle.”

[strange plinth]

voruna is locked behind second dream or war within idr, dante behind whispers, the rest are available from game start afaik

[brittle siren]

Do we know the detail of legems?

[pallid spoke]

Voruna is War Within.

But you don't unlock the pity vendor for her parts until Angels of the Zariman.

[restive river]

no lol there's like a thousand of em

[waxen crag]

Anyone know what anathema means on Roathe, it says I upset him, but I don’t remember. But is there a way to fix that?

[brittle siren]

It kinda means he blocked you

[waxen crag]

Ohhh

Is there a way to fix that?

[strange plinth]

lyon and marie might be able to intervene

[waxen crag]

This was the last thing he said to me without any context

[strange plinth]

or you need to beat him in descendia 21 times
total

[waxen crag]

I tried with Lyon but didn’t work

I’ll try doing the descendia

And I’ll let yall know

[wind ruin]

There's a weird thing going on. I think there's a flag that's not clearing in one spot, but has no effect on the actual conversations in others. I've got the same thing, but I've also had two conversations with Roathe since then.

[brittle siren]

What is the legems btw?

[lean garden]

laws

[brittle siren]

Ugh I hate this auto correct thing

[wind ruin]

and the legems of the orokin empire are apparently complicated enough, the only way to study them is with the assistance of a device that improves thinking speed and intelligence/reasoning. At least according to the Duviri tablets.

[civic gulch]

So basically non prime versions of frames and weapons in game was just people trying fo replicate those lost weapons?

[brittle siren]

Even though there are thousands of them, DE should just tease some for us, like Star Wars show what other “Order” for the clones besides Order 66

[strange plinth]

for just a few
most prime and regular variants existed at the same time during the orokin empire

[brittle siren]

Weapon maybe

Not Warframe though. Some frames were originally Prime warframes and then they were mass-produced in base form, some are originally base form and were granted Prime. Some have special conditions, like Rev Prime is from Unum interfering with the void, and Lavos can just prime himself.

[proper barn]

more like cheaper make.

lmao.

[proper barn]

are you 12?

[brittle siren]

Also fun fact: all the warframes you craft are copied and pasted from the whole warframe that was made from the original victim.

[wind ruin]

We did have some hints, in Glassmaker. Executioner Nihil was being passed around and casually just glassing whomever he caught violating the no longer relevant legems of the Orokin Empire. At least one of which was something about 'grineer may not refuse their assigned duties nor change them.'

[proper barn]

also this reminds me i want THE PRIME SKIN FOR THE SKAUT DE

GIVE ME THAT PRIME SKIN IT WAS IN THE OLD PEACE I SAW IT.

[woven coyote]

Lol

[proper barn]

I WANT IT

I WILL USE THE SKAUT ALL THE TIME.

JUST GIVE ME THAT PRIME SKIN I SEE IT. IT'S THERE.

[brittle siren]

Side note, there Liset Prime is going to be in the store for 1 regal Aya next week

[proper barn]

@civic gulch any other current lore questions?

[proper barn]

i have the liset prime skin.

[woven coyote]

Yknow when the zariman shuttle was flying down i had a moment of "how the hek is itzam gonna fit there?"

[brittle siren]

Give me so I can save up for Skaut prime

[proper barn]

lmao

[brittle siren]

Though I hope it would be buyable with plat as a skin

[woven coyote]

Several years later uriel prime accessories

[brittle siren]

If it were from Prime Accessories, I would have to wait a long long time to buy with regal

[brittle siren]

Tbh by that time there could be better skins, who knows?

[woven coyote]

Maybe even a new one

[brittle siren]

Hunhow shaped landing craft pls

And the air drop is summoning a bunch of sentient

[woven coyote]

Flying kaithe carriage landing craft

[brittle siren]

Also if this is going to happen, then make him the narrator for all missions (replace Lotus I meant, not in 1999)

[drowsy saddle]

The prime bolkor would have been better, and probably more armored

[brittle siren]

He’s had cat liquidity ability ofc /j

[woven coyote]

Technically worse considering the whole thing was a setup

[woven coyote]

Like supplying a vulnerable weak shuttle for the person you really want dead is the better option

[drowsy saddle]

I mean we see from the ones on the zariman, these shuttles can open in a more conventional way

I think DE realized that he would look janky trying to fit into the slot so just used a cheeky cutaway

[woven coyote]

Yeah that conventional way was what i was thinking of when i was puzled by fitting itzam in there

[brittle siren]

Oh imagine this, Hunhow landing craft will stay outside the relay and shoot a little pod of Sentient with us inside.

One could only dream

[woven coyote]

Btw with conventional way i am meaning the normal actual human doors not the warframe roll of doom

[brittle siren]

I love to hear Hunhow narrating missions so bad

Still that would take a lot of work

[drowsy saddle]

Anyone else notice that the revolving door on the Parallax is open when in loading screens

[woven coyote]

Imagine
"The great and terrible hunhow has changed plans, kill everyone"

[lean garden]

"Do what you have always done best"

[wind ruin]

Hunhow and Roathe taking turns informing the Drifter about mission objectives the Drifter is already doing.

and talking with each other about it.

Critiquing.

[woven coyote]

The dark reality of making a new mission control for normal missions

You need to record new versions of "change of plans..."

[brittle siren]

“I have changed my mind
Anihilate everyone you see
Nothing shall survive under my gaze”

[civic gulch]

No

Why

[proper barn]

you are in lore chat. you might have other lore questions.

[civic gulch]

Not as of rn tho

[brittle siren]

I know Hunhow is like the one responsible for making new Sentient, but besides that, what does he do?

(I need to stop using “also” in every opening of any sentence)

[restive river]

Wasn’t he called a farmer
He was probably helping with terraforming

[wind ruin]

He sits around in the ocean being disappointed with Erra.

[brittle siren]

What does Praghasa role?

[restive river]

Probably the same

[brittle siren]

Besides the sun sucking ability

[restive river]

The sentients were sent to terraform so

[proper barn]

currently? nothing before he could take matter and use it for something.

she can eat stuff.

[strange plinth]

praghasa was referred to as a carpenter iirc
..whatever that means in the context of terraforming

[brittle siren]

Oh I mean the original roles

[restive river]

She eat stuff to make new fragments

[wind ruin]

farmer and carpenter. Praghasa built things. Hunhow terraformed.

[proper barn]

yeah.

She could eat matter and turn it into things.

Also she can even eat a sun.

[restive river]

I mean a sun is just more matter

[brittle siren]

Hunhow did make Natah and Erra from his womb right?

[restive river]

Iirc yeah

They are his and Praghasa’s kids so

[proper barn]

idk if Erra is both of their kids.

we know specificlly Natah has 2 parents.

[brittle siren]

Prob to remove one of the stars, 2 of them are kinda bad for a new colony

[proper barn]

idk about Erra.

[restive river]

If Hunhow was the farmer then he was likely terraforming
If Pragahsa was the carpenter then she was building structures

[restive river]

I
Really doubt that

[wind ruin]

Note that Praghasa also built sentients.

[restive river]

Why is that bad for a colony and also neither star is missing.

[restive river]

She makes a lot of fragments same as the others

[brittle siren]

I mean imagine both collapse into each other

[proper barn]

But also they are from "the manifold" it seemingly where like this "BIRTH" happens. DO hear about the manifold in the quest? i don't remember.

[restive river]

That’s so incredibly unlikely lol

[strange plinth]

not beyond adis's song being titled "Lullaby of the Manifold" iirc

[brittle siren]

Maybe she chose not to do that, or the reason why one of them is sucking the other one is because of her

[restive river]

They appear to be in a stable enough orbit with one slowly being consuned

I don’t think it’s really an issue tbh

[proper barn]

that's it.

[restive river]

Pragahsa just sucks in matter to make stuff, I really doubt her original purpose was to eat a star specifically

[brittle siren]

I could think of multiple Radiation issues, like a double Solar storm.

[wind ruin]

The place where the graduation ceremony is held is the manifold. It's within a mostly buried sentient that happened to be the one who gave the Sentients intelligence, from what I remember was implied in the quest.

[brittle siren]

“The sun is a deadly laser” - History of the World

[restive river]

I doubt that would happen at the same time

[lean garden]

Im not sure that's the case

[brittle siren]

No, the flower gave them sentience

[restive river]

Gave the fragments sentience

[lean garden]

the place is Tohk-Amn

[restive river]

The main sentients just gained sentience
The fragments gained it from the xenoflora

[brittle siren]

I think it could give Hunhow crew sentience too, since they are at first just an AI

[restive river]

Oh Bau, since you’re awake check the theory chat in orokin archives

[lean garden]

Im not sure where manifold was included in describing tohk-amn

[brittle siren]

Also what language does Sentient use? Alter Void Tongue?

[restive river]

No? Hunhow isn’t constantly eating flowers, nor is Lotus or Erra or the Archons
Full sentients don’t need xenoflora.

[strange plinth]

sentient

[lean garden]

not sure what I should be looking at

[restive river]

I gotchu

We were talking kuva and then got to the unum and the sentients somewhat

[brittle siren]

Lmao they made a new language when 70% of Void Tongue is still a mystery

[restive river]

Why would they know voidtongue

[brittle siren]

It kinda sound like Void Tongue when Adis is in his mech

[wind ruin]

Roathe has a few words to say about voidtongue. He calls it, iirc, 'Albrecht's childish made up language'

[strange plinth]

another language to decode, just for fun
i mean, they'd either have orokin or their own language. its not a stretch for them to develop their own

[restive river]

Kinda sounds like doesn’t mean it is tho

[brittle siren]

Yeah it's just me overthinking that xenobloom is void flower

[restive river]

Well we know Albrecht heard of it and feared it meant something at all

Voidtongue is a Wally original most likely, an attempt to be like us

[restive river]

If the full sentients speak it then it’s not cause the xenoflora

Xenoflora was only effective on fragments
Not full sentients

[brittle siren]

Btw isn't Rap Tap Tap a poor rephrase of what Wally said during the lab hallway scene?

[restive river]

What?

How is it a poor rephrase
Also rap tap tap is just another Wally original

That is one of his many things

[brittle siren]

Hold on let me check the voiceline

[restive river]

Afaik it’s the exact same

We only say it cause he’s egging us on, pushing us

[brittle siren]

This one

[restive river]

What

[lean garden]

ironic, given that the gogojuice in him shouts RAZUL-TARAT KANUMMU

[restive river]

That’s not rap tap tap
That’s void something something

[brittle siren]

If you listen to it, it sound exactly like rap tap tap

[restive river]

And yet it starts with void and doesn’t match rap tap tap verbally

It’s not lohk tohk tohk
It’s lohk tohk tehnok

Lohk means void so that doesn’t even match the rap in rap tap tap

It likely just matches the rhythm cause that’s what he’s been doing, rap tap tapping
I don’t think that’s the voidtongue equivalent

It doesn’t really work for that

[brittle siren]

13:30

https://youtu.be/wFK9QFFTdKE?si=igd4IiDW6mwRHHZU

I swear it sound too much alike to rap tap tap

[lean garden]

its just deliberately in the same cadence

[restive river]

Yeah

[lean garden]

but it doesn't mean rap tap tap

[restive river]

Wally is just bein silly with it

Or rather creepy
Cause
He’s a creep

[brittle siren]

Though is he just made himself a wall just because his finger was cut by the Wall of Lohk?

[waxen crag]

So I did do 21 towers decendia and he sent a message but after that it went back to anathema. Do I have to do decendia over and over just to talk to him?

[brittle siren]

Btw iirc you just need to fight him as the boss is enough

If DE forces the player to do all 21 times for 21 floors it would be a real hell

[strange plinth]

unlikely. it should solve itself when next daily reset rolls around

[waxen crag]

Oh ok

[restive river]

Yeah you can just fight him directly if you go to the 21st floor

I did a full run today and apparently it was my 21st fight with him lmao

[brittle siren]

Also, some extermination floor are too slow

[restive river]

I did get the 21st vm immediately though but if he has anything else to say I’ll find out tomorrow

[proper barn]

NOT entierally true. they where already evoling it cuz they are a "hive mind" and they had evoled some sientence anyway. it just wasn't for indivual fragments.

[restive river]

It was bugging for me too

[brittle siren]

Oh nice

[restive river]

Exactly what I’ve been saying, minus the hivemind bit

[proper barn]

yee.

[restive river]

Full sentients don’t need the flowers

Like we knew that, look at mom

But fragments needing it and becoming sentient themselves is new info

[brittle siren]

Also if you want to farm the material, Xaku is the best since they can break all the balls on the ceiling, and those infested spore too

[restive river]

Xaku my beloved

[brittle siren]

So Adis is an evolved version of a normal drone? Sounds like a mythical Pokémon

[restive river]

He’s a fragment that ingested xenoflora making him a sapient individual

So yes lol

[brittle siren]

Also, some of the fragments have insane design, like the spider one

[wind ruin]

Adis struck me as being an 'experimental' sentient form, since Adis had the ability to heal both sentients and humans.

[restive river]

Dactolyst

[brittle siren]

Well he died after revived us

[restive river]

He does seem like a rare type

I’m still not sure how to feel about him reviving us tbh

Maybe it’s just me but I don’t think it works as an explanation for our revive system

[brittle siren]

I heard about the theory that he gave his light to us

So maybe we could bring him back in Tau

[restive river]

Like it applies to us and that’s
It???

[restive river]

I kinda doubt that but we shall see
Lotus implies we need to find a sentient like him for. Some reason

[brittle siren]

Wait, could Natah mimic Adis's ability?

[restive river]

We don’t know if she can mimic abilities

She’s more like the mother of the classic mimic chests from d&d but
Sentients as crates n resources

[lean garden]

I personally doubt hes a fragment

imo adis is a full sentient designed to ferry xenoflora spores around to fragments

[brittle siren]

Does she inherit Margulis' talent?

[brittle siren]

So Hunhow approved Xenoflower Sentient?

[restive river]

Doesn’t he eat a xenoflora?

[restive river]

What talent is that?

[brittle siren]

Nah he suck it

[restive river]

Okay i don’t think they eat like we do lol

[brittle siren]

Like the scientist trait

[lean garden]

to replenish his healing powers, but you dont see him reconnecting to the big cloud in the sky once he expends his pollen stores

[strange plinth]

it is pointed out that he needs to "recharge" at one of the xenoflora patches
when valdur starts talking about what the xenoflora does to sentients

[brittle siren]

For example, can she invent stuff like Margulis, or does she just have Margulis' memory and that's it

[restive river]

That tells me he’s a fragment then

[restive river]

You mean being an archimedean?

[brittle siren]

Kinda yeah

[restive river]

Iirc that was more so due to Ballas’ interference

She somehow has her memories

Maybe due to aya

Our ayatan stars
However they store memory

[restive river]

Idk I think he may still be a fragment

It depends ig

[strange plinth]

i was under the impression that it took a while for that to kick in, with the way galastra talks about the dactolyst under the egg

[restive river]

Gotta force em to go cold turkey

Then once part of the hive mind you hack them, I guess

[lean garden]

theres also the matter of adis being born at tohk-ahm

[restive river]

I mean if he was a fragment and ingested a xenoflora there it would be like being born (totally not coping)

[thorny stone]

discusses lore

[thorny stone]

we hate ball ass

[proper barn]

Yeah. Any questions?

[thorny stone]

nah let’s just hate on that blue freak

[proper barn]

I feel like that's not what you should take from that.

[thorny stone]

whar did i come off as mean?! im sorry

[proper barn]

Lul

It's more he's like "royality" and a abuser than he's blue lmao.

Anyone could technically be blue.

[dry oracle]

https://youtu.be/HlMOxw86m_o?si=jBkbdWaV4xTuzZ79

So you do have to be max rank with the entrati

[blissful merlin]

Yeppers. And thankfully DE made it so much easier to rank up with them so it won’t take long

[fast dew]

Have we considered that Roathe tries to justify Ballas and Margulis' relationship because hes projecting and doesnt want to accept he was in an abusive relationship

[thorny stone]

blue da bu dee da bo day

[west oasis]

I love how complex and complicated the devil triad characters can be

Marie is one of the few characters that is a fan of Entarti and just lying to her and supporting her simping for him would just later make her feel hurt

Roathe is just.. well Roathe its like talking to someone who grew up racist and bigoted but has an idea that his views are wrong but can't really put it together creating these awkward moments where you're shocked how deep he can be and disgusted at his previous lifestyle

Then we have lyon who seems to be a minefield like Eleanor at first but is actually really sweet and is suffering from stuff you can't really understand at first but you get so much sympathy for him

Even though these characters are way more harder to talk too

[west oasis]

Than previous ones they're some of the better written

[crude robin]

During the Maker the Lotus was pretty convinced we killed Erra during the old war... This begs the question, when did Pazul appear? was Erra always Pazul? was erra trying to help us during the new war not him having a revelation about Ballas but Pazul double crossing Ballas?

[strange plinth]

Pazuul is The Ram, who is only in control after TNW
the giant ram skull with an archon shard through it

[west oasis]

Adding to the fact that saying ballas didn't change only showed his true colors makes him upset yes

[crude robin]

How sure are you about that?

[strange plinth]

because of how much Pazuul differentiates The Ram from everything else in propaganda, mostly

[fast dew]

People do this so often and its so funny when they learn the truth.

[west oasis]

Not controlled it's sounds more like Erra went insane and had a personality split due to the archon shard

[fast dew]

You can't romance Marie if you do that, and so many people did that to romance Marie

[strange plinth]

• the fact that Erra got crushed and then gets reanimated by the same things he made, in the same way?

[west oasis]

I wonder though are his visions of tau like the Livestream or as Tau as it is now in the present either way it would explain why he has gone insane

[fast dew]

I also suspect he hates Loid and Albrecht for the same reason, that he assumes its the same but its wildly different

Or, he's bitter that he couldnt have that relationship

[crude robin]

But what if Erra was always Pazul? what kind of sentient is Erra or better Pazul? appearences are just a show with mimics and we can;t trust them, we can trust the lotus being convinced the tenno made sure Erra was destroyed, and Pazul taking over as soon as ballas was killed makes you think about how much of that was planne

[fast dew]

Theres so reason for him to hold so much vitriol towards Loid at the start 😭
-# other than that Loid was purposefully inflammatory towards orokin people

[west oasis]

Warframe writers got beef with me Eleanor's walking on glass convo was sounding a little too familiar now Roathe convo of him being happy he had a use to someone is. Just heart wrenching

[west oasis]

Nah its clear that the archon shards are driving sentients crazy look at amar before and after reanimation the wolf is clearly insane

[strange plinth]

Natah is the Mimic Queen, and was made after Erra. so he isn't a mimic

[west oasis]

The archon shard merging with warframes or dead things probably drives the sentient who was reanimated insane

[west oasis]

I wonder what Roathe thinks of ordis then

[strange plinth]

i wouldn't really call them insane, though?
they're still- sentient. not mindless

• we know sentients can be reprogrammed

[crude robin]

But the lotus came to her senses from being an eidolon thanks to the shards, what if the archons are mad not because the shards but the way they were created and the torture behind that? just a reminder warframes went rogue and crazy not because of the infestation but because of the tortures Ballas and the orokin subjected them to

[fast dew]

He just wants to be loved, and is bitter towards Loid for having what he couldn't. He sees Albrecht basically ruining time to keep loid safe, but when he needed the person he loved, she threw him under the bus.

DE might be cooking. Or im overanalysing

[fast dew]

Its the energy of the shards, not the shard itself.

[west oasis]

We didn't attach it to her like they do for archons

[fast dew]

And uh. Yeah. They go insane from the infestation. The protos weren't tortured and would go insane as well.

[west oasis]

And before we had all of them she was getting ravenous

[crude robin]

say that to lizzie

[strange plinth]

Lizzie claims it is not the infestation, but that is long before we explain to her what she's asking of Flare

[fast dew]

Lizzie tells us thats what she does????

Just. Not in the way "WE MAKE PEOPLE INSANE"

Thats like. Why you gotta step in

She sees it as shes not, but she is

Biased characters holy shit ?@?@?!?!?

[dark compass]

We had to tell her to find a better way

[crude robin]

we had different conversations with her

[fast dew]

No, you just didnt remember the later convos.

She doesn't think she's doing that

But that's what she does.

[pale cedar]

Ballas literally said they were free of the Infested madness or so we thought in the Sacrifice like 10 years ago we don’t even need Lizzie to learn it happens

[west oasis]

Pazuul is a bit...

[crude robin]

yeah is Ballas a credible narrator when he is selling Hunhow the secret on how to kill the tenno after we destroy the orokin so he makes his enemies kill one eachother?

[strange plinth]

Pazuul spends most of his time recording propaganda and mocking us. he's devoted and spiteful

[strange plinth]

what reason does he have to Just Lie to Hunhow there? its half-truths at least

[west oasis]

Bite my head clean off, Mother! That's where the good meat is! Suck the guts until the little legs kick, kick, kick

[pale cedar]

Considering it’s about the Infested Madness and that’s exactly what we see happening and it is followed up upon later, he’s being reliable

[strange turtle]

Like 7, even

[west oasis]

You can tell his not all too there

[strange turtle]

Varzia, Teshin, Isaah, that one guy in Synthesis, Menz? and then IIRC Cy’s crew?

[fast dew]

He... kinda is?

I don't think we are supposed to be learning about that, so I don't see why he'd be boldly lying

[west oasis]

I wonder if Roathe's 3 lost loved ones were dax in the sacrifice vm

[crude robin]

In the same quest we have a frame tortured by ballas and who whent mad from living the memory of killing his own son at the hands of ballas...

[strange plinth]

dax or grineer, i think the last (or second to last idr) is implied to be grineer and the other two are unclear?

[fast dew]

... actually thats why Umbra is lucid

He's raging, but he's lucid

[pale cedar]

He did that because of the madness

[crude robin]

we don't heal umbra from infestation madness we help him come with terms with the trauma of killing his son

[fast dew]

... we also get inside him which is something that stops the madness

[lean garden]

Should qualify that lizzie doesnt say the madness isnt happening, shes only rebranded it

[strange turtle]

The soldier he did emergency transference with would’ve been, since he specifies when he’s talking about the Grineer one

[west oasis]

The infested madness hasn't really taken over stalker

[strange turtle]

Idr who the other one was

[strange plinth]

"A Whole Of Infinite Parts"

[west oasis]

Omg your right I forgot

[fast dew]

I think they go insane bcs the human mind shouldn't be forced so thin

Wait or is that doom

[crude robin]

these warframes that initially had no infestation madness or so they thought, commited atrocinties at orokin orders, you all talk like we don't have veterans go rogue in real life because of ptsd, it's crazy to blame infestation for something the orokin did on multiple accords

[strange plinth]

kullervo's crimes detail the madness as well

just a bit, but its there

[pale cedar]

Actually they were more likely to not follow orders

[fast dew]

Hey as a person who has gone rogue bcs of PTSD, They just dont do that. Thats not a PTSD thing, its the infested. Thats what Lizzie says, that's what the drifter says about the protos.

Also, going rogue from ptsd isnt from the ptsd, its from the lack of support

[west oasis]

Hive mind + human mind that can't speak

[crude robin]

and infestation madness sounds more and more like war propagands to investors as opposed to warframes not pulling up with orders

[fast dew]

Except... Lizzie mentions it

[west oasis]

A hive mind combining with a human mind would eventually lead to a human either joining the hive mind or that mind decaying

[fast dew]

Hell, the drifter mentions it

[pale cedar]

Does the Infestation look calm to you?

[strange plinth]

"You witnessed the slaughter as the Orokin eradicated your defective, demented brothers and sisters..."
mind, this is from the perspective of kullervo. it is narrated by the warden, but the thoughts are kullervo's

[fast dew]

Who wasnt a part of the war

[fast dew]

Nodding nodding

[west oasis]

And we see it with protea and the solar rails

[pale cedar]

The Orokin tried to make frames to not have the known Infested Madness and it didn’t work

[west oasis]

Hell parvos proves that is just a matter of time thing when he says his beloved protea has fallen to time or something like that

[strange plinth]

-# those are specters and wouldn't be prone to the madness though

[stray herald]

what are specters

[crude robin]

and you think infested puppets of war would have had the support necessary? it's litteraly what tenno offer them to cure the infested madness

[fast dew]

Just that, spectres

[stray herald]

expand on that plz

[fast dew]

Yk the spectres you can spawn in? Kinda like that.

[west oasis]

I do like this conversation of if the infestation madness is just propaganda

[strange plinth]

copies made of existing things using specter particles, something parvos discovered or stole
overall undetailed

[pale cedar]

I am calling it the Specter Particle. As my Archimedians explain, mimicry is in its nature. An echo. Exposed to precept circuits, we are able to imprint behaviors! Like an infant mirroring her surrogate. Only this infant can set the world on fire.

[stray herald]

ok

[west oasis]

Parvos is like a lot of most famous people irl he stole a lot of his work

[fast dew]

Mhm.

Honestly it wouldnt be surprising if it was just more entrati tech

[pale cedar]

Something I do wonder is

Is it Archimedean or Archimedian cuz DE can’t seem to make up their mind

[fast dew]

Could be two different terms

Dean reminds me of a school Dean

[strange plinth]

at this point i think they're just interchangeable. regional differences or whatever, in-universe
dialogue and dialog
if they aren't going to make up their mind i'm going to headcanon it

[fast dew]

I fw that

[west oasis]

Every inconsistency or confusion can be explained by just remembering that the orokin are very annoying and bored people

[fast dew]

I still wonder what Drifter and Roathe means by Albrecht having multiple kids

[strange plinth]

Mysterious Entrati Child

[fast dew]

I dont think that's talked about enough

[west oasis]

Mother probably has a siblings then

[west oasis]

Or that the drifter had a sibling

[fast dew]

I mean, yeah maybe but. The sibling/s would be older. She died after Euleria's birth

I dont know why we wouldnt have heard of them

[west oasis]

Or Albrecht was having a little too much fun

[fast dew]

That would make them the heir to the entrati family as a whole

[crude robin]

The recently added Nokko and prince and what seems to be another different infestation stray, prensent a clear exaple of maintained individuality after assimilation to a hivemind and it makes me belive more and more that investation isn't all bad, if anything missunderstood

[fast dew]

Unless he got Loid pregnant, there's no real evidence for that

[strange plinth]

i mean. its goals are to consume, and not much else

[fast dew]

He was married off to Gerivaine, and really didn't like her

He also dont seem to like women that way

[west oasis]

Yeah it would seem out of character he was indifferent most of his life

[pale cedar]

Wally

[west oasis]

And didn't really like women too

[fast dew]

Thats from Roathe's perspective, he very much wasn't

Roathe sees him as such because he didnt like the woman he was forced to be with

[crude robin]

not consume, assimilate, join, they don't destroy the mind they integrate i, it's why most of deimos is savage because they are assimilating lower life forms, heck all the entrati famili is part of the infestation

[west oasis]

Consume and be consumed

[fast dew]

He likes them but only when they remind him of his Daughter

Because he misses her

He misses her a lot it seems

[strange plinth]

subsume and survive, then.
still. its not exactly benevolent

[crude robin]

integrate, symbiotic relationship, dualism, what tenno are to warframes, escept when infestation offers it the internalised stigma and fear induced by the tought conviction that infestation leads to madness sabotaged the process leading to madness

[proven spire]

he's onto something

get him

[crude robin]

it's a well known and used trope where power feared from missunderstanding clases and corrupts, and this seems to be a more and more clear exaple kile the Hollow in Ichigo

we see more exaples of infestation being a begning symbiote then it being some sort of evil hivemind

[strange plinth]

huh

[crude robin]

expecially when considering warframes and the helmith

[fast dew]

"When I'd talk to Entrati about particle physics and the Void, and I LOVE to talk about that stuff, he would just, like, listen to me blather on. But I could tell, by the look in his eye, when I had things right and wrong."

AUHHHHRRGGG

[strange plinth]

the helminth, a strain of infestation that was cultivated explicitly to be docile, is docile

[proven spire]

i have postulated before that the infested hivemind is actually a being that is similar to the indifference where it may also be another being that was born out of the void 🤓

[fast dew]

Impossible. How Impossible.

[crude robin]

yeah after that follow or so we thought

[fast dew]

-# (This is a joke)

[strange plinth]

and the grey strain, mutalist, coda, and techrot all attack things on sight in an effort to spread themselves farther
and the general strain that idr if it has a proper name

[proven spire]

the infestation is another void being, they're connected i tell ya

the murmur is just wally's version of an infested army

[strange plinth]

they're hives in different aspects, but not the same. vague parallels at most

[fast dew]

Its clear Albrecht got reminded of his Daughter when Kaya did this, though this kinda feels like he was around her for a longer period of time than just. "Hi hello thank you for the injection bye"

[crude robin]

with this I have to disagree the infestation seems to act different, it's constant in time where the void seems to progress in time, infestation allows for time travel where the void can only travel in time using anchors, investation is much more ancient than wally

infestation is much more in tune with emotions where the void is indifferent

[proven spire]

the infestation is older yes

[proven spire]

the void is just the void, the indifference came from the person looking into the void

void is pure nothingness which could be interpreted as indifference but indifference itself is an emotion

[fast dew]

Wally also isnt indifferent most of the time

[pale cedar]

Void is only nothingness till something or someone goes into it

[proven spire]

maybe the infestation is a being that has successfully superpositioned itself into the timeline because it's older and the indifference just wants to do the same

[crude robin]

no it's like saying shadow is a state of light when shadow is an absence of light

[fast dew]

[crude robin]

the void is supposed to be nothing, it's why the idea of wally being the Conceptual embodiment of a god is so appealing to me

[fast dew]

A real shadow has light... thats... something a shadow has, its never pure absence?

[proven spire]

yeah you can't cast shadows without light, the void is pure nothingness

the empty vaccuum of space

[crude robin]

shadow appears when you remove light by coveing the source

[proven spire]

i can't spell vaccuum

[fast dew]

Yes but theres still ambient light?

[proven spire]

is it vacuum or vaccum

[crude robin]

the ambient light makes the shadow less dark by adding light

[crude robin]

yes I love him

[fast dew]

... do you know how light works

[proven spire]

the point is that the void is the absence of well anything even shadow

[fast dew]

Like genuinely

Do you know how a source of light that produces a shadow works

[pale cedar]

The Void thrives on nothingness

[proven spire]

anyway, back to our programming

[fast dew]

There will always be ambient light for a shadow

That's how you have the shadow.

Because theres light around it.

[proven spire]

the void is an interstellar black hole 😂

[crude robin]

yes it launches photones that then get abrobed or ricocheted from objects, when a superfice isn't hit with photons no photons get back to our eyes so we perceive that as a shadow, we don't see what isn't hit by photons as we perceive the ricoschet of photons, it's how clack wroks as black objects absorb most photon wavelenghts and we don't receive any so it appears like there are none

[crude robin]

what are you trying to argue?

[fast dew]

That your interpretation for how shadows work is wrong

[proven spire]

okay so take this and then delete it, that's the void

[fast dew]

Because it is

[crude robin]

all I said was that indiference isn't an emotion but lack of it

[drowsy saddle]

The void is whatever you want it to be

[fast dew]

Ever seen a blackhole? Thats not black. Thats nothing. The idea of something not existing and being perceived is not something the human brain likes.

Thats what the void is. A colour that does not exist. Its not a shadow.

[proven spire]

it is a space of pure nothing where even something as intagible as emotion manifests in it

[fast dew]

Indifference is an emotion 😭

[proven spire]

even the state of indifference

[fast dew]

And wally feels a lot of emotions

He isnt even indifferent

[proven spire]

and the very bowels of one's subconscious

[drowsy saddle]

My... Doodoo?

[proven spire]

thoughts you didn't even know you had

[crude robin]

how do you describe indifference?

[proven spire]

i think that it's the space between compassion and apathy

[crude robin]

what is compassion what is apathy?

don't explain using terms you have to define

it's like saing green is a place between red and blue

[proven spire]

you don't know what compassion and apathy is?

[fast dew]

Going off the dictionary

"lack of interest, concern, or sympathy."

Note, its not a lack of emotion.

[crude robin]

what emotions then can you have together with indifference?

[fast dew]

Anger.

[proven spire]

the emotional spectrum

[fast dew]

Indifferent to the consequences your actions will hold.

[strange plinth]

lots of em
apathy is just a lack of care. it doesn't negate other emotions

[fast dew]

Wally is indifferent only in this regard

Which isnt even true actually

He does shit to benefit himself, so its not even indifference

[proven spire]

there's a saying that the opposite of love isn't hate but it's apathy

because hate implies that you still care

[strange turtle]

I wouldn’t say Indifference is an emotion outright but like, an emotional/mental state. Like depression

[fast dew]

I fw that

[proven spire]

like the drifter's character arc is all about feeling something instead of feeling nothing at all

[crude robin]

what is the diference between emotion and feeling and where is apathy placed as suposed to indifference?

no seriosly this doesn't sit right to me to classify a nothing as a soemthing

[fast dew]

Also something tangently related id like to mention

People call Albrecht indifferent a lot, but i don't think he is, he isnt indifferent, he's pragmatic, he's a pragmatist. He cares about the consequences of his actions, but the need to do it outweighs the emotional burden

[fast dew]

Do you not know the whole "nowhere is somewhere" thing?

Its like

One of my most hated lines everytime a character is lost in a group

"We're in the middle of nowhere"
"Nowhere is still somewhere!"

[crude robin]

this one is wrong to because emotions aren't numbers negatives and positives and you just can't have oposites in that sense

apathy like indifference are posites to all emotions and feelings toward something becasue the oposite of feeling is feeling nothing

[proven spire]

my last two cents is that indifference is still a state of being

[crude robin]

it's an absence it isn't you can't put it in the same basket as something that is

these are basic concepts

[crude robin]

yes

it is a state

[fast dew]

I think you're missing what I meant.

Nothing is still something because our brain cannot comprehend nothing.

[crude robin]

yes we can, you saying this is you rationalising that they are 2 distinct things but put them together for simplicity

[proven spire]

does it count as an emotion if it's a defensive mechanism in response to trauma

[strange plinth]

how did we get here
is this even still relevant

[crude robin]

we can comprehend 0 we can comprehend absence we can comprehend it all

[fast dew]

This is so Albrecht core

[proven spire]

are emotions voluntary or involuntary?

[crude robin]

does it matter?

[crude robin]

what we can't comprehend is nothing in the context of it being something becasue it isn't, and that it's what puts most people in a block, somthing and nothing are opposites and they never are together

[proven spire]

i don't want to suffer anymore so i choose to feel nothing

[crude robin]

that said, wally definetly isn't indifferent about our deals and about that finger and we call it the indifference becasue Alberth interprets it as such and maybe in the beggingin it was but not it changed, becaseu it is a product of conceptual embodiment initially his now ours as a colective

[strange plinth]

indifference is more of what it does than what it is imo
it feeds off of it
hence why strong emotions, particularly positive ones, drives it away

[crude robin]

as opposed to the hivemind wich is a collective assimilating others wally is a creation of out collective

[fast dew]

Exactlyyyy

Oh i shouldn't be able to relate.

[crude robin]

this is an intersting take, during the last events of the hex finaly wally was constatly telling us to leave them because they are lost so there is something to this

but at the same time, "They are laughing at you kiddo" doesn't call for indifference on the contrary

[proven spire]

wally isn't the absolute state of indifference incarnate but it is a being that is theorized to be born out of another human's consciousness

[strange plinth]

mhm
Indifference: "None of this matters."
Drifter: "Then why are you trying so hard to stop me?"

[proven spire]

this is the drifter's entire journey in duviri, he overcame indifference despite dying over and over again in an endless loop

haunted by his own emotions buried and taken from their own subconscious

[crude robin]

maybe it all is more literal than anything, they are fighting the indiffference towards the calamity that is to come? indiference towards their future?

[proven spire]

the calamity... of warrrrr frame

[coral mirage]

Interesting discussion, I'd like to chime my two cents:

Albert Einstein is often quoted that Cold does not Exist. His claim that the Absence of Heat, motion and therefore energy, is the accurate answer.
However, because our brains interpret elements often in binary ways, we think of it as real.
And it does have physically real effects, however, those states of matter are due to how much Heat is placed.

[crude robin]

the indifference being void manifested it's mirroring the thought of inidifference and doubt in Drifters mind?

[proven spire]

the human interpretation of the universe

limited to our own comprehension

[coral mirage]

Coming back to the Void, I see where Error is going with it.
When I heard the words "they butcher me" i thought Wally is speaking of being abused as a source, and he naturally responded back against the Orokin, but to him thats everything related to the Orokin, so in essence humanity was targetted

[proven spire]

maybe wally isn't a manifested emotion but rather a manifested trauma taken shape from the void

[coral mirage]

Thats what I thought

[proven spire]

like the thrax

but bigger

and rockier and wall-yier

[fast dew]

I mean, it is just Albrecht's conceptual embodiment from the trauma he went through in the void 😭

[strange plinth]

albrecht broke into the void, full of self-doubt, fear, and a want to prove that something was in there
and the void obliged
whether wally is a being created there or merely given a face in that moment remains to be seen

[proven spire]

yessir

[fast dew]

Ive had to explain that what Albrecht went through absolutely was a form of trauma and it was. Exhausting.

[coral mirage]

Warframe is built on the concept of trauma

[fast dew]

Why are people so insistent that masculine characters cannot be traumatised

[crude robin]

it's why Alberght chose the Drifter, I mean the whole duviri paradox is about depression and not caring anymore and how to reaquire emotion in the darked time with outside help, from a teacher and the guiding hand of a mother

and now the drifter is going around doing the therapist for protoframes

[coral mirage]

The Operator is basically held against their will, and while we were silent for so long, theres the emotion of helplessness from it.
Rell suffered horribly

[proven spire]

there's a whole scifi genre about the limits of human comprehension

[coral mirage]

Drifter is so messed up from the event, the Duviri Tale is basically speaking of an escape fantasy as a coping mechanism

Oh and hes actually dying, its not in his head, he is physically being hurt

[crude robin]

be himself to add

duviry is a loop of selfharm

[fast dew]

Thank you Marcel Santos for your insight

[coral mirage]

Yeah no, I love the game dont get me wrong, but being a dad and seeing all these kids get hurt

it pushes all the buttons

[strange plinth]

eh, duviri is kinda out of their control by the point that they're in the execution loop
yes, they made it, but it is its own thing, persisting in the void without them

[fast dew]

I aint a dad but I do have female hormones, and it does have similar effects, so I do feel that sorta

[crude robin]

that's the scope of warframe to call in emotions in the fight agains global indifference

[proven spire]

not just depression but also grief

grief about what he had to do in the zariman

[coral mirage]

Alright have a good one folks, gotta go box, sun already went out and staying healthy is a priority.
I swear once I have enough money Ill buy Baruuk so I can kung fu space satan

[crude robin]

that's the tenno, the drifter didn't do anything on the zariman that we know of, if he did he forgot it

when we meet him on duviri is in a perpetual loop of selfharm not knowing or caring about who he is where he goes what he does what is done to him, not until the guiding hand of a mother drops from the sky and leads him to a teacher

the tenno killed their parents on the zariman after wally deal with their void powers

[proven spire]

i thought that the drifter is just another version of the operator where things went differently on the colony ship

[strange plinth]

they definitely remember after they leave duviri
several kim chats about their time on the zariman, pre- and post- incident

[proven spire]

yeah the 1999 kim chats reveal more

[crude robin]

they remember the tenno memories as they get fused, it's repeatedly make a distiction for the split

[strange plinth]

they remember creating duviri, so they're able to differentiate between their memories and operator's

[proven spire]

they're the same person but with a point of divergence in their actions on the spaceship

[crude robin]

Drifter is the version that created their own world to be safe from the maddened adults, the tenno took the wally deal and fought back killing the adult, the tenno zariman then got out of the void and we then have the Emeber prime entry where an investigator get's her face melted from a tenno she tried to contact

[strange plinth]

both took the deal
drifter got hit by semantics

"I can save them, all of them"
"all of [the children]" was operator's deal
"all of [the other children]" was drifter's

[crude robin]

drifter didn't take the wally deal the tenno did, drifter only got the void powers after the tenno realities clashed at teh zariman and you fuse the realities

in the new war the drifter get powers and warframes after the meeing with the tenno then he also get the memories

[strange plinth]

a zariman tablet in duviri:
29. You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you?
A. *CORRUPT FILE DETECTED*
B. I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you. (correct)

[proven spire]

so they both took it, the point of divergence was the deal itself lol

[strange plinth]

the split happens at the deal, they both took it yeah

[proven spire]

this is a whole other thing entirely

[crude robin]

this doesn't make sense, the Drifter zariman wasn't saved

[pale cedar]

They were though

[strange plinth]

the drifter was left alone in there, the other children were saved

[pale cedar]

29. You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you?

A. CORRUPT FILE DETECTED

B. I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you. (correct)

[strange plinth]

well, presumably. we never see them
but wally upholds his side of the deal

[crude robin]

no the whole ship was in void and the drifter zariman now got out of the void and and covers a hole in the alberch membrane, all the zariman survivors bacme void angels it's what the angels are, and the spirits of the kids running aroun helping you gather treasures, the drifter zariman got stuck in the void the drifter only survivor

[proven spire]

when did the zariman portal open again?

[strange plinth]

the zariman stuck in the albrecht membrane is all of the zarimans
void constructs based on the dead crew became the angels

[proven spire]

eternalism baby

[crude robin]

after the new war when the drifter got out of duviri when the lotus hand ballas cut got in duviri and started the paradox quest, the duviri zariman we see now is the zariman the drifter was in

[strange plinth]

tbf its valid under this circumstance
the zariman is like that because of eternalism

[proven spire]

i don't think it's an excuse, it's just how this game universe operates

past present and future existing all at once

[crude robin]

it's how the inhabitants of the universe think they know how it operates

[pale cedar]

Too bad you can’t access any of the others

[strange plinth]

"This place is like an embassy. Playing host to misfit realities that were never chosen."
"Sharded causalities piled up in the Heilbronn margin, singularity refusing to play with any of them… oh, the Universe is a messy place."

[crude robin]

bad writers will use it as escuse for plothole good writers will create plotholes to make the reader question the reality

[proven spire]

if it's just a theory then why does the story, even from the very beginning, revolve around it

[sudden notch]

Which fictional character is lavos's personality closer to

[pale cedar]

The issue with Eternalism is players using it when there’s something they can’t solve even though DE made it clear you can’t just always access it

[sudden notch]

For me, lavos as described in his story, reminds me of Trent ikathon from the mighty nein

[proven spire]

there are definitions and everything, we can understand it lol

you just have to comprehend it

[crude robin]

all the definitions in game are offerend by in universe people you get tehir interpretations, you also get a lot of people in the same universe telling you it's all bs

warframe is great because all the info you get is subjective from an universe stand point and it leaves room for wuestioning it all

[proven spire]

who are the in-universe ppl saying that it's all bs

[crude robin]

.

I so love Roathe

[proven spire]

so one guy

[deep zephyr]

I would say the orokin probably disagreed with Entrait family theorems

LIke

Tuvul didnt give a shit when he made the zariman

Even though the duviri book was in circulation beforehand likely

[crude robin]

I'm not saying eternalism inst true I'm also not jumping the gun to say it answers all the questions and depict a clear picture

[deep zephyr]

Hell, the enternalisim concept might be a conceptual embodiment itself

[pale cedar]

Nah, 2 separate things

[deep zephyr]

Conceptual embodiment is far more terifying than eternalisim

[proven spire]

see even you don't know what it is

how are ppl having trouble defining what it is

it's so funny

like it's such a simple concept to understand

[strange plinth]

the education on the zariman includes eternalism and void stuff. that not being approved doesn't make sense,,
they didn't really like albrecht but he and euleria were still important scholars

[proven spire]

once you learn the rules, you recognize the game

[deep zephyr]

Yeah,but im saying There were likely Schisims between each house executors ruled over

i Think of the orokin empire like Dune

[crude robin]

I knwo what it is, it the simple concept taht all events in time are equally real as are past and future ramifications, the events don't colapse in unicum uppon choise but they diverge creating equal in reality events

and the void is the cosntant in space membrane between the events

and the division between void and the current reality is the albrecht membrane

[proven spire]

exactly, and we can freely move between these different frames of time because they all exist simultaneously yes

[strange plinth]

cannot freely move between them. that still requires a ton of effort.

[proven spire]

it's like an eternal straight line where things in it change all the time but their consequences can still persist

[crude robin]

the idea between conceptual embodiment is that you thinking about an alternate choise already creates the division in reality between what it could be and what it will be and what it is and it make it real in what it is

[opaque zenith]

Small derailment but unicum is a wild take

cary on

[deep zephyr]

well. Isnt it impossible atm because the strand of Krha was Cut or something?

[proven spire]

so pop quiz, if i drop something in the future that can travel to the past does it show up in the past

[deep zephyr]

Isnt that Kayas Peely pix or something lol

[crude robin]

yes as long as you know wich past

[pale cedar]

If it decides to travel to the past sure

[opaque zenith]

If some'one' can travel, I don't see why some'thing' can't

[proven spire]

if it decides to yes

here's what roathe has to say about conceptual embodiment

[opaque zenith]

But a 'thing' presumably would require an external activation

[pale cedar]

It also depends on if the thing is sentient or not to even know where the past is to get there

[proven spire]

and here's what Lyon has to say about his childhood nightmare being wally

sacre bleu how is it possible that wally could exist in a time before ours

[strange plinth]

and there is a later convo in which lyon, and drifter, point to the harrow injection as the cause of these altered memories

[opaque zenith]

I remember a kim for that 1 sec

[ocean geyser]

God i need to download this

[strange plinth]

in which he describes rell and harrow, never wally, being beside him

[opaque zenith]

It's the very "Eternalism types" convo lol
RoatheRank5Convo5

Basically didn't exist "before" and then it always existed is my interpretation

[proven spire]

The eternalism timeline is like the branching timeline in the mcu but instead of cutting the branches of the tree off you straighten that damn thing with your hand

So things are no longer divergent or conflicting but parallel to each other

Maybe

[fast dew]

Ehh, the entrati family were regarded as weird, but noone was actively hostile towards them, and they are the most reputable void scientists to date, they thought Albrecht went insane from his findings in the void.

Well.

Other than Parvos

[proven spire]

It’s just a big ol never ending straight line where the branches of the tree run parallel but is still connected to the main stem instead of diverging outwards

[final ether]

I have a question about the Prime Vanguard. Are those Frames that have been Commandeered by the rebels? or are they Tenno/Frames that actually went to the other side?

[fast dew]

Mhm

Commandeered.

[final ether]

okok thanks for the clarification

[proven spire]

Those parallel universes or alternate timelines are the thing that wally nomnomnoms on

[strange plinth]

ascaris primes that take over the frame yes
maybe damage and/or kill the operator too but that's a little unclear

[final ether]

I just saw a picture of the Vanguard aurafarming with their cool poses in Perita, and I was thinking that they might be Tenno that betrayed us, since they have all that sass with the poses

[proven spire]

Quantum entanglement and superposition is kinda like another term for establishing oneself throughout the entire timeline as a whole to oversimplify things

So it’s not just one instance of wally traveling between these different points in time but rather it now exists in all of them simultaneously

Boom i win warframe lore

So now, basically, we can never escape the indifference unless it’s defeated which is why we are looking for other unconventional ways to beat this mucking void being

The indifference is now infinite, we can only delay things by fighting the murmur

[fast dew]

I wonder what ballas meant in Protea prime's trailer by "even the entrati-" before getting cut off by Parvos. What was he gonna say?

[proven spire]

Eternalism baby woohoo! passes out

[pale cedar]

Would’ve been something like “even the Entrati ain’t done this as far as I know”

[deep zephyr]

I mean, i think "beating" it is the whole reason why the chracters are in the predicament they are in. Isleweaver sort of put that at the forefront of my mind at least.

[proven spire]

a more advanced form of travel that is superior to entrati's

[deep zephyr]

IF its essence is changed then thats better than it being "beaten"

[proven spire]

trying to fight something that is now omnipresent throughout the whole timeline

[deep zephyr]

Yeah thats what i mean

You cant "beat it" you can only "change it"

[proven spire]

omnipresent but with limited interaction, he needs the murmur army to do that

[proven spire]

the power of loveee

[deep zephyr]

Or chemical X or something

Aprently The infested also shares information "Across timelines" or some shit

and Helminths can be used for time travel in thisw ay

Just inject the Grey strain of the infested into the Murmur lol

[proven spire]

yeah which is why i also believe that the infested hivemind is also the same thing because it has similar capabilities

[deep zephyr]

I thought it was found in the Mariana trench on earth at some point though

[proven spire]

could be but how did it manifest itself, how did it get there

[tall echo]

nah

there are infested chilling in the water around the unum

[proven spire]

the ostron are drinking the infested water

[tall echo]

unkown if those are og at all tho

[tall echo]

well, it's sleeping, so there's no danger involved

[deep zephyr]

I know in OG lore it originated from the deep ocean

[tall echo]

in og lore the orokin made it, but that'S retconned

[proven spire]

how did it derive it's consciousness

is consciousness created or received?

tune in next time on dragonball z

[deep zephyr]

When did it get retconed

[tall echo]

idk exactly when, but at some point they changed the mail from the awakening quest to say "no idea where it came from" instead of "it's an old orokin creation"

[deep zephyr]

Well, They could mesh that in the future if the infested plays a part against the indifference.

like, what was the orignal thing that the orokin used to make the infested out of?

[proven spire]

maybe not created but harnessed by the orokin

like the orokin didn't create kuva they only harnessed it

[pale cedar]

Wasn’t it once awake they changed not Awakening?

[deep zephyr]

The infestation is a natural counter to the indifference in alot of ways because it shares info throughout time on its level as an opposing party to it

[pale cedar]

And no it wasn’t a retcon because that only said it was an Orokin weapon rather than actually made by the Orokin

There’s only 2 retcons in this game

Varzia
Nihil’s rank

[proven spire]

the orokin didn't make the tenno they only used us

[pale cedar]

They often just weaponise existing things

[north jolt]

A "virus" (sad that even Warframe falls victim to not knowing how viruses actually work but moving on) that can infect electronics sorta reminds me of when they discovered bacteria uniquely adapted to consuming nylon plastic waste found around Japanese factories. In the WF universe it could be some kind of crazy but random evolution

[ocean geyser]

The infestation is literally scared of the indifference, and by extension, the Void

Although some strains might be more
Bold
Than others
But if the mf Grey Strain is going to start hiding when the Murmur get active on Deimos then that’s something SERIOUS

The Helminth might actually be fine with the Void considering warframes channel it to use their abilities

[restive river]

It at least tolerates it since it makes for the best battery ever

Warframes in lore have infinite energy (Jade Shadows confirms this iirc)

[ocean geyser]

Yeah
Or at the very least the Jade Light is an infinite source of energy

Birthing a baby requiring infinite energy is an interesting concept though

[restive river]

Iirc Ordis mentions its warframes specifically?

[restive river]

She transferred her energy to her child
Like her losing power was weird until we realized why

[ocean geyser]

Ah interesting
So the baby can use the Jade Light then??

[restive river]

Probably? It’s def connected to the heart

It seems Stalker was also gifted some of that power as well, likely a gift from Jade to help him protect the child (hence why he’s a Protector now)

[hazy prism]

Next time we see stalker he starts doing this

[restive river]

Lmao

I do hope that the child shoots horizontal jade light beams

Or we just get a myrmidon that does that

[narrow pendant]

considering corpus are the reason jade eximus exist, i wonder if they ever reverse engineer jade light weaponry

[strange turtle]

I mean, stopping them from completing their stuff with the jade light was kind of the whole point of the Belly of the Beast event

The eximi are still around and so widespread just for gameplay

[restive river]

If we ever see a myrmidon in action we’ll know the true difference ig

Were there any unique details on how they used it or no?

[strange turtle]

The jade light or the myrmidons?

[restive river]

Myrmidons

Ik jade light was just disintegration beam

I kinda hope we get a proper jade light weapon at some point, but I like to think Kuva Nukor is the closest we got atm aside from Jade herself

[strange turtle]

Not much

We know that they were like, suits for people , and highly advanced, since they were distinguished from the rest of the “drones” on the fancy attack ship the Orokin sent to Tau, and later it’s mentioned that their warriors “struggled and suffocated inside their shining suits” (the myrmidons having just been described as silver-armoured)

Which tracks with the fact that it was being remotely but directly interfaced with/controlled by a human in Ivaras thing, and the actual origin of the name

But aside from that not really any details

[restive river]

Wait they were suits? :o
where does it say that?

All I really remember is they kinda looked like Orokin and shot Jade Light beams

[tall echo]

Myrmidon generally refers to mercenary-adjacent ppl afaik...

[restive river]

I recall we do see one in a now privated video for the ivara statue too

[strange turtle]

“Galleon laden heavy with drones and silver-armoured myrmidons”

“They sang, and our technology failed. Our warriors suffocated inside of their shining suits”

[restive river]

No? It’s always been the jade light beam things

[tall echo]

I mean outside of wf

It's a real word

[restive river]

Oh pfft
We talkin wf scrap

[tall echo]

I. Know

I'm saying that myrmidons in wf are probably mercenary-adjacent too

[strange turtle]

In greek myth, the myrmidons were a group of legendary warriors, uplifted from ants by Zeus to serve as some guys army

I think it was some deposed prince or king?

[tall echo]

Hm

I'm underinformed tbh

[restive river]

"Even before her final arrow belted the visored helmet from his head, she had the killing shot nocked and ready. There he stood: the Myrmidon. Slayer of warframes. Naked. Beauty, symmetry, even the capacity for language, sacrificed for… raw power. But his face… his face was a mockery of an Orokin face: those she was sworn to never kill. The smirk on his pallid, angular visage told her he knew it as well."

So they’re suped up jade light dax

[stiff beacon]

I forgot they animated a portion of that leverian

[restive river]

But due to being Orokin tech they were useless against the sentients
Neato

[restive river]

It was for the statue specifically, to promote it
Afaik the video is not publicly available

[dry oracle]

That's weird Marie status randomly becomes best friend after I clicked on end

And somehow lost best friend status with roathe

[junior jungle]

Whitch warframes have unique animations with wisp's animations?

[restive river]

Wdym

[strange turtle]

Warframes don’t get special animations when using another warframes animation set

Unless you’re talking about stuff like, Nokko and Yareli’s little dance thing

[twin wigeon]

some do, like Equinox with one of Wisp's animations makes her day and night form split

[normal mountain]

Sevagoth summons his Shadow with that one

Wukong pulls put his clone (not that I care for Wukong, or would be able to tell the difference)

There's probably a list of all them somewhere

[twin wigeon]

i feel like xaku would have an interaction just spliting from skeleton and shell

[still frigate]

they do yeah

[dark compass]

Lore...

[ashen pulsar]

oop misclick

moving that to builds where it shouldve been

[north jolt]

What Levarian is this? I'm just learning about it now

[tall echo]

Ivara

[swift gyro]

Is there a way to change the code or the orders of one cephalon or just orokin can do that? also, would be possible to return an cephalon to a human body?

[tall echo]

Orokin regularly reprogrammed cephalons, corpus seem to still roughly know how to as they use salvaged and duplicated cephalons sometimes.
Returning a ceph to their body is possible but extremely rarely doable

[loud oriole]

uploading Ordis to one of my Umbras so he can be Ordan Karris one more time

[swift gyro]

So, orokin and that dude glass (i forgot the name) are the one who made the process to create cephalon. so only they know everything about it?

[tall echo]

He doesn't want to

[tall echo]

Nihil, and yes

[loud oriole]

darn, would've love to see him pull the move that got him glassified

[swift gyro]

why tho? wouldnt be better than living as an assistant on a spaceship? or he likes helping the operator?

[tall echo]

Listen to his story

[swift gyro]

where?

[tall echo]

Cephalon fragments

[swift gyro]

hmm okay. i seem them on the index after grabbing them around the worlds?

[mystic lynx]

The codex

And yes

[tall echo]

Yes, and they're just in the order of how they're listed

You gotta hover over the image to look for a noise, when you find the right area ordis starts talking

[swift gyro]

thx. wanna know why he doesnt wanna (if he could) return to a human body.

[drowsy saddle]

If ordis wants to kick bottom again, the Necramech is right there

[loud oriole]

yeah Ordis has quite the story and makes sense why hes okay with being a cephalon (albeit fractured)

[swift gyro]

thats why he sometiems glitches?

[tall echo]

Forced to be okay with it

Yes

The glitches are ordan

[drowsy saddle]

What's the point of a lesson if we can't apply it?

[loud oriole]

yeah hes pretty much one person with two personalities, one being the cephalon assistant that takes over 75% of the time with the other being Ordan Karris, one of the coolest warriors the Orokin ever brought into their 'court'

[vast cedar]

i never really knew ordis had lore :3c

[loud oriole]

everyone in warframe has lore
-# except Garuda

[tall echo]

And baruuk

40% of venus frames have no lore

[drowsy saddle]

Is rhino a venus frame? Trying to do the mental math

[tall echo]

Yes

[drowsy saddle]

Closer to 33% tbh

[quaint laurel]

what if grendle has just finished a really long fasting sesh?

[mystic lynx]

Does hildryn have lore?

[tall echo]

Through the prime trailer

[drowsy saddle]

Rhino has the codex entry
Hildryn has the prime trailer
Yareli has waverider
Nokko has Nightcap

That leaves Garuda and Baruuk

[tall echo]

Oh right yareli

I have so much contempt for yareli I forgot her

[drowsy saddle]

Yeah yareli has the most lore i suppose, both the waverider comic and her prime trailer

[mystic lynx]

32% ish don't have lore then

[tall echo]

And the deluxe trailer

[drowsy saddle]

Yareli ragebaited Balsac so hard she got ganked into the warframe creation program

[tall echo]

33.333333 repeating

[mystic lynx]

33.334%

[tall echo]

Rounding is the coward's way out

Unless you round down pi to 3 then you're a wizard

[mystic lynx]

I dislike if it doesn't add up to 100%

[tall echo]

I need to stop making references no one will get

[drowsy saddle]

Or an engineer

[lilac aspen]

Nokko prank victim

“I’m gonna hide her in mushrooms when she takes a nap.”

Honestly
It would of been fitting if Nokko was involved in some of Garuda lore

Like
Idk

He put her in the mushrooms to honor her or something
Or to prevent her body from being found by the wrong people

[strange plinth]

mhm. vallis undermind was the perfect opportunity for some garuda lore, and they chose to connect nokko to yareli instead
-# for the record my salt about this is fake

[twin wigeon]

i mean its either the bubbly rebellious pop star frame or the bloody berserker vampire basketball star

[lilac aspen]

Headcanoning Garuda was the one capable of reeling in Nokko and Yareli but also willing to delete a planet if one died

They’re headaches but they’re her headaches

[strange plinth]

i enjoy this dynamic

[twin wigeon]

agree

[drowsy saddle]

Additional headcanon: Nitokh is garuda and after roathe disappeared she cleaned up her act and got therapy

[tall echo]

MINE ISN'T

[drowsy saddle]

She's now a responsible mother of a fungal child and a fish sk8ter

[lilac aspen]

Honestly if it was the dynamic
The basketball of blood would be because Garuda decided to go “Yeah this is fun…Oh Void they’re rubbing off on me.”

[flat cedar]

Got a question in which I asked my lore heavy friend to which he replied it was undecided, Why does the corpus attack the excavators? I would figure their stick would be to steal the contents of the excavator rather than destroy it. To sell it back to you via their various fences.

[tall echo]

Very ineffective therapy

[strange plinth]

easier to prevent you from getting it to begin with, probably

[tall echo]

Gameplay>lore

[drowsy saddle]

Excavators immediately secure the loot to your side

So if they want the loot, they have to clear out our excavators to place their own

[mystic lynx]

Nightcap says "The Corpus Would Destroy Their Own Equipment Than Let Someone Else Use It"
They would absolutely destroy someone else Equipment if it mean the opposition don't get anything

[lilac aspen]

Spite

Pure spite

[north jolt]

Dang, I need to look into that again

[drowsy saddle]

Nitokh is a crazy cat lady but instead of cats its warframes

[lilac aspen]

Turn her in Valkyr then
So she’s truly a cat lady

[mystic lynx]

Valkyr proto?

[flat cedar]

I was hoping maybe the avenue would be explored tbh, it would be incredibly funny to see a corpus attempting to extort me for a branton prime barrel

[drowsy saddle]

Do... Do the factions even know how relic cracking works?

[lilac aspen]

Probably not?

[drowsy saddle]

I assume they have some idea, since we're raiding their vaults in disruption missions

[lilac aspen]

Or they do but aren’t insane enough to try it since everyone gets void corrupted

[strange plinth]

iirc requiem relics are some weird experiment done by the grineer
so there's some element of understanding

[drowsy saddle]

Do we conceptual embodiment the relics so hard that we only get warframe related items from them?

So if the corpus Crack a relic, it could be literally anything from the era and not just warframe items

[strange plinth]

i don't think CE has anything to do with it? its some quantum superposition shenanigans
only having warframe stuff in them is prolly gameplay > lore imo

[lilac aspen]

“Best I can do is 5 credits and a Detron.”

[drowsy saddle]

Schrodinger cat is the random drop chance, but i meant like CE is what decides the table

[flat cedar]

I mean they are merchants so they could feasibly sell anything that is cracked from a corpus relic

[drowsy saddle]

I suppose the corpus version is the corrupted keys we sell to the Perrin Sequence

Basically old HDDs they're cracking for ancient crypto lmao

[loud oriole]

corpus relic.

so a quantum flash drive

[flat cedar]

They should do something like that where you crack the corrupted keys and it drops the old star system from 2014, that would be cool

[drowsy saddle]

Now im reminded of the story of that one dude who excavated a landfill to find his old hard drive that had like 10k bitcoin on it

[loud oriole]

apparently he has like 2 more attempts to unlock it

[swift gyro]

Which warframe was treated as ´´most powerfull´´ if there was any case of that.

[drowsy saddle]

I mean nova creates antimatter

[silk atlas]

If there was they wouldn't have bothered making the other ones.

[drowsy saddle]

Atlas and his rumblers can destabilize an asteroid big enough to shatter earth

Saryn cleared the vast majority of earth from the infested

Nokko is implied to be the avatar of the entire Orb Vallis mushroom network

[tall echo]

Chroma is stated to be one of the most powerful but that's it

[swift gyro]

from what journey is this from? i dont remember

[tall echo]

You are late

[strange plinth]

new strange prolly

[drowsy saddle]

Alright relax albrecht

[loud oriole]

jokes on you lotus, my Warframe is strong (er than chroma :p)

[strange plinth]

was uploading just as you sent yours, alas

[coral mirage]

So, that Simaris / Ordis / Suda mission.
Simaris, stop lying, you got a soft spot for Ordis

[ocean geyser]

Or Suda

I figured it was Suda

[coral mirage]

he specifically said "for Ordis"

given how i take everything at a literal level (being trilingual does that to you) i am calling the nomenclature card

[main crane]

Suda and Irmis (now Simaris) were married once.

Suda was already suffering from Alzheimer's-like disorder when she became a Cephalon.

[lean garden]

Do I have to read the suda comics or where did you get irmis from

[main crane]

During a glitch, Suda calls Simaris "Irmis" when he joins the fight.

[restive river]

Suda: "Curious about music, as I am? Ignore the rants of that monster, Irmis, who perverts his function with destruction. Correction… Simaris is to whom I refer. I am busy with my data collecting; what is your query?"

[lean garden]

Interesting

where did you get that they were married?

[restive river]

That’s the only mention of him btw

Or his old name rather

[main crane]

Also, Simaris joining the fight wasn't entirely for Ordis because at the end of the quest, Simaris states it's just a "Loyalty glitch".

[restive river]

Yeah no “Irmis” only shows up in this, not in the fight

[main crane]

Ohh ok. I must've forgotten then.

[restive river]

And I don’t believe it’s in the comic either since I would assume that would show on the archives as well but
I may be wrong there and don’t have time to reread the whole comic lol

[main crane]

It's not in the comic

[restive river]

This game has so much content I’m shocked you remembered Irmis being in there at all lol
Kudos

[strange plinth]

it is not
suda mentions that she forgot their name in it, though

[restive river]

Who’s name?

[main crane]

Lmao yeah

[strange plinth]

partner/lover, sorry

[restive river]

So Irmis/Simaris was not their partner then as she remembers his og name

[main crane]

In the comics, Suda states she regrets not becoming a Cephalon when she still remembers her partner's name.

Which is Simaris/Irmis

[strange plinth]

"My only regret, my dearest, is that I waited this long. Long enough to forget your name."

[restive river]

If she forgot the name then Irmis isn’t her partner

Cause she
Remembers his name was Irmis

[main crane]

Irmis is her partner

People with dimensia and Alzheimer's randomly remember old stuff then forget all of it again.

[strange plinth]

its vaguely implied but not confirmed

[restive river]

I mean ig but this is reading to me that Irmis was not her partner as she does remember his name in her cephalized state

[main crane]

And the comic serves as a prequel for the Octavia's Anthem (Octavia is also in the comics)

[restive river]

Unless it came back to her right before she was glassed

[main crane]

A glitch. Cephalons glitch.

Simaris even glitched

[restive river]

When damaged or have been around long enough yes

[main crane]

He hates Suda to the bone but joined the fight because of "Loyalty glitch"

[restive river]

Depending on her condition it is possible the memory of their name remained within their mind to some extent

I can see it I’m just a tad confused and tired since it’s seemingly contradictory
But ig maybe that’s the point cause memory problems and being millennia old cephalons!

[sly swan]

hey, is the finger in the railjack relinquery from the man in the wall?

[main crane]

A replica

[fast dew]

A copy of it, yea

[main crane]

The real finger is missing

[strange plinth]

only albrecht knows where it is, semmingly

[fast dew]

... I think he was lying about that one homie

[sly swan]

how is it a replica? is it a growth from the relinquery key?

[fast dew]

Yonta seems to as well

[strange plinth]

unknown how they were replicated, just that the orokin managed to

[restive river]

The Orokin somehow replicated them

We don’t know how, they just did

[fast dew]

-# note, it was the orokin as a whole, not just Albrecht

[sly swan]

i guess its related to the grineer cloning process

[fast dew]

Unlikely

The fingers could very well just duplicate on their own

[strange plinth]

its possible they were cloned
but, again, unknown. no detail on the method

[main crane]

Could be, could be not. Afterall, that's his wife, and Cephalons are reprogrammed glass brains.

[restive river]

Roathe says the Orokin replicated them iirc which shot a hole in the reliquary duplicate theory

[sly swan]

either they were cloned or the finger split? like in the replication process they splinter and grow?

idk seems interesting

[restive river]

We know the finger grew

[main crane]

I need more of Roathe's conversation

[restive river]

They come in a variety of sizes ig

Cut off when normal sized
Grew or replicated to be much larger

[main crane]

In Albrecht's notes, it grew larger

[sly swan]

i wonder how powerful the man in the wall is, if even a replicated finger can power a railjack

[coral mirage]

Am I to assume Teshin is still alive?
I know hes there in the relays (i think) but after Old Peace... Where Unc go?
ALso, if Im an Unc, does that make him automatically Grand Unc?

[fast dew]

Theres still the matter on how theres the appearance of one missing finger yet multiple on the floor of the labs, the "originals" as plural, which makes it a little more weird

[restive river]

Could be because Wally took Albrecht’s form they were capable of cloning it in a similar process to the Grineer but that’s a stretch as it is voidstuff

[strange plinth]

might be his wife
i think his "loyalty glitch" is just him swallowing his pride for once and helping someone else, regardless of if he has a prior relationship with them

[proper barn]

"Real" more like original

[restive river]

Teshin is alive
He’s in Duviri

[main crane]

He's "alive" but trapped in Duviri.

[proper barn]

All the copies are REAL. @main crane

[fast dew]

... what? Where is this said?

[restive river]

One was cut
Multiple fell

[coral mirage]

How am I supposed to find that out?

[proper barn]

Its how the RJ hyper space jump. Or how the Zariman tried to jump.

[restive river]

Play the Duviri Paradox

[coral mirage]

like no worries iill play but tell me!

[main crane]

Duviri Paradox

[proper barn]

Play duviri.

[sly swan]

his fingers got multishot

[main crane]

He's the one training the Drifter

[strange plinth]

he says so when you first talk to him during the duviri paradox quest

[proper barn]

Have you played Diviri?

[coral mirage]

I did that way before New War thingy!

[restive river]

You won for funniest answer lol

[fast dew]

Did you misread the way he described like. His guilt and anxiety over the man in the wall as the fingers growing 😭

[proper barn]

Well. It it the "duviri paradox."

[strange plinth]

yup. because duviri paradox is placed in the weirdest spot it possibly could be

[coral mirage]

ok granted i thought duviri was a huge hallucination, and its clearly before New War, so...

[lean garden]

thats uh, not exactly what albrecht meant iirc

[coral mirage]

ok...wait...

[proper barn]

Not before.

[main crane]

It's a Paradox so time works differently.

[proper barn]

During.

[strange plinth]

New War Act 1 > Duviri Paradox > New War Act 2

[proper barn]

Kinda. But he shows you his narmer veil in that quest.

[coral mirage]

thank you

[proper barn]

Like he goes

[main crane]

Teshin was already there for God knows how long before the Drifter came to his senses.

[fast dew]

Yeah I thought it was just. "Oooo my feelings are growing oh hell" not "the fingers are growing wtf"

[coral mirage]

ok ok so old beard man Teshin is there

[restive river]

Most will say its better to do after since it can make better sense that way
But yeah Teshin got hurt by Erra in the New War
Fell into the Void
Fell into Duviri
And was nursed back to health
Now he’s no longer space uncle but time dad to Drifter

[sly swan]

i feel like to understand this lore fully, i need to collect a bunch of journals like its gravity falls

[proper barn]

"Look at at this thing."

And it's literally the Veil he had put on him during the new war.

[lean garden]

not that, the thing that "swelled" wasnt the kid named finger

[restive river]

https://tenor.com/view/gravity-falls-grunkle-stan-after-all-these-years-finally-i-have-them-all-disney-gif-2624228875844465926

[proper barn]

Kinda.

[coral mirage]

you cant be time dad, Stalker is dad, we unc, he grand dad

no wait... does that make Lutus Big Momma?

[fast dew]

Yeah, cept it's more journals than 3 and it is more mundane 99% of the time

[restive river]

Stalker ain’t our dad though!
He’s like a weird neighbor

[coral mirage]

that woman has like indefinite identities

[proper barn]

@coral mirage also duviri is real. The Drifter made it. Well made it based on the book Mother made.

[restive river]

Lotus is our second adoptive mother yes

[sly swan]

then i need a bigger bookshelf

[lean garden]

For with each passing day, there grew within a tumorous idea. It was minute in those early days: the pale reaching digits severed on the floor… studied with reverence, with greed. And it swelled larger in the latter days: the regal domes, the Rail dedications, the unholy Zariman parade.

[fast dew]

[coral mirage]

yeah i know, we kept getting killed, well him... wait... us

[proper barn]

She is a Mimic Queen.