lore-discussion

[thick yacht]

Iirc

[dire mountain]

Scaldra existed BEFORE that happened lmao

Neci had to join BEFORE she got taken over

[thick yacht]

Anyway, imo Roathe was the last attempt at saving the Empire, but just like Albrecht ruins everything, he ruined that too

Someone needs to take his Time Machine away from him

[lean garden]

scaldra are backed by the O.R.O

they had a tongue-in-cheek allusion to O.R.O eventually becoming the orokin

[waxen mesa]

Let us not forget

[dark compass]

Even Neci's right arm is longer than her left

[waxen mesa]

Orokin literally means child of oro

[dark compass]

[strange turtle]

(O.R.O being part of a whole wannabe shadow ruler conspiracy in 1999, based on an actual theory)

[thick yacht]

That’s like saying Coca-Cola invented Cola

🗿

[tall echo]

child/people of gold but yeah

[dire mountain]

Hey does this sound like any faction in particular? Im kinda blanking

[drowsy ether]

Except for the mentions of the oligarchs who employ Scaldra wanting to remake the world into a "golden dystopia". And for (if my memory serves me right, I recall hearing this at some point) Rusalka's mechanical arm being conceived by the devs as a reference to the Scaldra eventually paving the way for what would become the Orokin.

[dark compass]

It's longer than her other arm so it has to be true

[dire mountain]

Its not explicitly spelled out but its not a crazy conclusion to make based on everything we know

[thick yacht]

You’re forgetting the two dozen radiation wars that ravaged the world sometime between 1999 and the rise of the Empire that probably reduced most of these people and humanity to dust

[silk atlas]

We've got a lot of Radiation Wars and a long long time before Orokin even become a thing.

[dire mountain]

Compound that with Albrecht's "the events in Höllvania will shape the course of human civilization for the next 10,000 years"

[thick yacht]

Techrot

Techrot is the Technocyte Virus which is the Infestation

[dire mountain]

Yeah, no shit

[thick yacht]

There you go

Probably what Albrecht was babbling about

Crazy old man that he is

[dire mountain]

But that doesn't mean the beginnings of the orokin were not present in the era

[silk atlas]

Techrot, Rad Wars, all that jazz between 1999 and the Orokin that makes whatever happened between and then a super small blip in the ocean

[strange turtle]

I mean the organisation could still survive and develop in one form or another

[dire mountain]

That and we dont know what the radiation wars truly entailed outside nuclear weapons and a single event during the 18th

I think a secret shadow government wouldnt be in the crossfire of nuclear bombs

[silk atlas]

There's just a lot of different things that trying to say the Scaldra developed into the Orokin "in one way or another" when we hardly know the state of everything else going on on Earth is a bit of a really small drop of possible explanations on how the Orokin developed.

[waxen mesa]

I'd vote scaldra was the basis for grineer clones somehow

[strange turtle]

There’s also thhs

Now that’s familiar. There are these top-security bunkers under Ludston and Mancunia. The idea is, if there’s ever a Radiation War, the fat cats and bigwigs get to hide down in their luxury bolthole and sip Mimosas while the rest of us get burned to a cinder up above.

[dire mountain]

The ONE event of the radiation wars we know of is against the infested

A. The destruction of the Arctic Hive Cluster```

[silk atlas]

Where's that quote from?

[dire mountain]

Minerva or velimir

[strange turtle]

Normally I’d just write it off as a just normal nuclear bunker, but this is an oddly specific direction to take the idea

[strange turtle]

Eleanor, 4.6

[restive river]

Not about the techrot at all lmao

[strange turtle]

The Drifter also suggests that the Radiation Wars probably began against the infested, when Techrot leaked out of Hollvania

[restive river]

Why’s my pic taking forever smh

[restive river]

Nope

[restive river]

This specifically states Hollvania, not the techrot

And with what we know of ORO they, if nothing else, may have had a hand in what set the Orokin into motion

[dire mountain]

And while its very likely there were human conflicts during the era, I feel like the existential threat probably is the main focus

[dire mountain]

They'd be closer to dax tbh

The main military force sworn an oath (or signed a contract) to fight for their (corporate) overlords

Grineer were only really militarized because of the old war and shit got desperate iirc

[fast dew]

He wasn't even speaking that line iirc, it was a note in the comic

[restive river]

(See the image I just sent 4 mins ago )

[fast dew]

And Albrecht is surprisingly sane, somehow

I wouldn't be, but he is of sound mind

[ashen pulsar]

neci was evil before being possessed by Big Evil.

she deserved our kindness abt as much as the scaldra troops we shred through

less, actually

[thick yacht]

may

We need to be willing to give the Orokin the benefit of the doubt

[fast dew]

HA

Hell no.

Id be dead before id give child murders the benefit of the doubt.

[dire mountain]

You mean the body-snatching, back-stabbing, sadist oligarchs? Those orokin?

[fast dew]

You know. The ones who'd steal children and kill them for their own gain?

[ashen pulsar]

I don’t think we’ve been given a single reason to believe in the orokin

[fast dew]

Even someone like Albrecht you gotta be weary of.

[dire mountain]

Like I know roathe's whole thing is seeing past preconceived notions of someone, but like the orokin are still an extremely extremely (word i can't say here) up society.

[fast dew]

I mean, he's done kuva

Hes probably killed a child more than once

[thick yacht]

Albrecht if nothing else is a terrible bore

And also shot dead Amir, for that alone he needs punishment

[fast dew]

Oh no the orokin that doesn't kill children is boring

[thick yacht]

He killed Amir.

[fast dew]

Ehh. Amir lived.

[thick yacht]

He did kill children

[fast dew]

Amir also isn't a child

[thick yacht]

Albrecht lived CENTURIES

[fast dew]

He is a grown ass man

[fast dew]

So has loid btw

Darvo too

[thick yacht]

Loid was in stasis and is an Archimedian

[strange turtle]

Continuity was for living more than centuries*, but yeah

[thick yacht]

Archimedians can’t do Kuva

[dire mountain]

Given the choice of being shot or dying in a nuclear meltdown which would you choose

[fast dew]

Archimedian assistant, and uh. Even before then.

[thick yacht]

You’re right next to the reactor if that thing goes Chernobyl you’re dying instantly

[ashen pulsar]

he killed amir with the knowledge that amir would survive. He put him out of his misery for a short time.

[fast dew]

Hed be at the very minimum, 60 years old.

[fast dew]

Not instantly lol

Someone hasn't researched radiation poisoning

Its a long process.

[thick yacht]

Radiation poisoning isn’t going to apply because you’ll be dead from the massive explosion

[fast dew]

If you want I can describe it

[ashen pulsar]

of course, albrecht’s still a bad person. But he’s one of the kindest orokin to ever live, now that he’s changed a bit. So why do you keep suggesting that we should believe in them?

[thick yacht]

Use small words I’m not as bright as you.

[dire mountain]

"One of the kindest" (the bar is in hell)

[ashen pulsar]

EXACTLY

[fast dew]

Your skin starts rotting from the inside, you start getting sick, you eventually start losing hair too. Then comes blindess, sepsis from open wounds left untreated, dont forget the slow degradation of your bones! And the ever present feeling of knowing you can never recover from how your organs are failing.

If amir survived the blast, would you really want him to have to go through that?

There's a chance he could

[dire mountain]

Like he has a plan and a noble goal but he is THE definition of the ends justify the means. The tenno are his clean-up crew for whatever mess he makes. He is also, for better and worse, the only person with any plans to stop the Indifference.

[thick yacht]

You’re severely underestimating how large reactor explosions are

Amir was what, 50 feet away?

[ashen pulsar]

So why are we trying to give them the benefit of the doubt? The best orokin we’ve ever met is an ex child-murderer who still thinks he can use or sacrifice whoever and whatever he wants to get what he wants.

[fast dew]

I think you're underestimating how strong warframes are.

Im usually not one to say such a silly thing

Amir is one of the more transformed protos.

[ashen pulsar]

specifically why is kazirei trying to give them the benefit of the doubt

[ashen pulsar]

yep, he’d basically be cooked inside his shell

[dire mountain]

ESPECIALLY The Protoframes, which are not on the same level as standard warframes

[fast dew]

We as warframes can quite literally go from orbit onto peitra, you know how HOT that gets???

[thick yacht]

Amir isn’t fully transformed, a single bullet felled the man. Try shooting at a regular Volt Prime and see how far that gets you, or, I don’t know, the many Grineer or Sentients who tried and are no longer with us for their effort.

[fast dew]

A single bullet hit our drifter and bypassed Sheila's.

SHEILA.

Also

Amir isnt a volt prime lol

[ashen pulsar]

albrecht clearly had a one shot build considering we played as amir and we had a completely reasonable health number

[dire mountain]

I misread that

[fast dew]

Silly caesar

[thick yacht]

Yes Albrecht gave them the inferior non prime dosages

[dire mountain]

The protos are still on a lower level though, especially due to them actually fearing death

[fast dew]

No, its likely that Albrecht didnt HAVE those.

[ashen pulsar]

his bullet bypassed shield gating

[fast dew]

Gotta remember he either stole them, or ballas gave them to him

[dire mountain]

He put on pistol pestilence 😭

[fast dew]

Lorewise I prefer the idea that Albrecht got given them, but the idea of Albrecht stealing shit is funny

[ashen pulsar]

then I don’t wanna know how much toxin was on that gun considering it instantly killed amir

[dire mountain]

Hes got an incarnon build with a +toxin riven too trust

[fast dew]

I need to draw Albrecht stealing a car

[ashen pulsar]

speaking of incarnons, I learned today that the incarnon genesis overrides skins when summoned

[strange turtle]

Theft would also fit with him having Temple

[dire mountain]

He would download a car

[fast dew]

I think its a bit of both personally

Ballas being talked to by Albrecht n Loid is breaking in somewhere

[ashen pulsar]

wouldn’t we all…

[fast dew]

He would download a stake for kalymos

[tall echo]

albrecht is a scheming little thief, and the gods demanded repentance(if you get this reference you're great)

[tall echo]

A STAKE??

[fast dew]

SHIT

Im tired. Christmas wore me out.

Steak

I meant steak.

Giving baby kalymos a huge steak...

[tall echo]

albrecht out here lethally testing his cat for the vasca virus

[harsh sparrow]

GODDAMNIT DRIFTER
MENTION UMBRA

[tall echo]

that would be dishonest

umbra is an exception, not the rule

[harsh sparrow]

Still could've said something along the lines of "yeah but there's one"

My man Umbra got an entire quest to his and Warframes as a whole's origins

Then gets forgotten when it comes to the main thing that makes him more than an emo Excalibur

[tall echo]

quincy wants to know if there's anything left in the normal frames because he'll share their fate

[harsh sparrow]

Fair nuff actually

[restive river]

He killed at least one for sure

He’s not as bad as the other Orokin for sure
He’s his own brand of weird and terrible

[restive river]

His much more egregious crime was what he did to ALL of the protos, what he did to Amir was for sure messed up but he likely knew the loop would continue (it doesn’t really excuse his action of shooting a, comparatively innocent man)

[fading mist]

talking about the hex quest normal end?

[wintry dust]

How did the issue change so quickly?

[restive river]

More so about Albrecht’s actions there

[tawdry dew]

Yo question are all warframes good are they meant to be all heroes or are some evil or bad

[restive river]

I was busy and wanted to clear up some stuff

[restive river]

Ain’t that simple

[fading mist]

he do be shooting a guy that was in the middle of a heart failure, crazy

[tawdry dew]

Hm ok is nekros evil

[restive river]

The tenno protect the innocent but they do it through cold blooded brutal murder
They’re morally gray

[restive river]

No…

[wintry dust]

No

[restive river]

Are you caught up in the story?

[tawdry dew]

He looks evil brings people back to life 😭

[fading mist]

well, soul punch seems pretty painless

[restive river]

Not a heart attack, more so a panic attack

Idk how people miss that

[wintry dust]

That's enough, I think.

[fading mist]

well, a little similar

[tawdry dew]

Nuh huh I’m on natah just a question if they good or evil

[stiff beacon]

Oh nah I'm not hearing this necromancer slander

[restive river]

The tenno are not good nor evil, they protect the innocent but do it through murder
They are morally gray
Keep playing.

[wintry dust]

That final part of the story confused me.

[tawdry dew]

He legit looks evil and ranniiiiiii

[wintry dust]

Not exactly. It's understandable.

[restive river]

“Looks evil” doesn’t mean evil

[fading mist]

well, the tenno's job is to balance the power vacuum

[tawdry dew]

He bring people from the dead srry i thought he be evil

[stiff beacon]

Imma slap ya for disrespecting our resident loot frame

[restive river]

It is yes
They do that through murder

[fading mist]

mass murder and war crimes*

[restive river]

No, no warframes are inherently evil nor good

[tawdry dew]

😭 he so boring to play too

[tawdry dew]

Oh klmmmm thanks

[fading mist]

try petrify ore gaze nekros

[stiff beacon]

Yea so is protea and you don't see me complaining

[restive river]

Yeah
We protect the innocent which is good
But do warcrimes which is bad
We are as grey as you can be

[tawdry dew]

Protea fun

[restive river]

And ofc with the truth of the tenno it makes even more sense

[wintry dust]

Technically, Warframes aren't exactly people, so they don't have a sense of good or evil.

[stiff beacon]

It's a turn your brain off frame

[lilac aspen]

Necromancy isn’t evil
Unless you use it evilly

[tawdry dew]

They child soliders

[restive river]

Most do for some reason in media cause
Idk death = bad???

[restive river]

Just keep playing and try to avoid spoilers

[tawdry dew]

Nah it kill everything in a sec frame

[fading mist]

"stop bringing my dead grandpa back, they don't want to pay the tax anymore"

[stiff beacon]

Like I said turn your brain off

[tawdry dew]

Coooll

[restive river]

Hey now!
Her 4 requires at least a braincell to use effectively

[wintry dust]

Yei

[tawdry dew]

Noooooo

[fading mist]

wdym protea is brainoff?? try negative duration temporal anchor, it is pure speed play

[stiff beacon]

Really? You sure? Considering the blaze artillery augment

[lilac aspen]

“He’s paying his debts off, one way or another.”

[restive river]

I’m talking about her 4 lmao

Protea doesn’t require a lot of skill either way

[stiff beacon]

Wtf do you think the augments for

[wintry dust]

(trying not to get lost in the discussion, otherwise I'll never find my place again)

[fading mist]

temporal artillery freezes 1 artillery to her while temporal anchor is active

[restive river]

Swap your 1 when needed
Spam 2
Keep 3 up
And either subsume 4 or do your best with it

[restive river]

I thought you meant a different one
I haven’t touched her in a while

[stiff beacon]

Yes hence no brain cells considering you can spawn 3 and have one with you

[restive river]

I love protea but she requires so little thought

[wintry dust]

Really

[fading mist]

but that just means you chose to play a duration protea, doesn't make protea a brainoff frame

[restive river]

Spam 2 keep 3 up
That’s protea for the most part

[stiff beacon]

At least with nekros you need to remember to press 4 every so often especially if your playing melee

[restive river]

Good point here, there are many ways to play every frame!

[wintry dust]

Try

[restive river]

Anywho
Lore

[fading mist]

negative duration protea is the best tbh

[wintry dust]

Are you alright, bro?

[fading mist]

I am fine, and this build is pretty fun, compare to artillery only protea

[wintry dust]

Yes, that's undeniable.

[restive river]

Swiping this to try later

Anyway
Lore!

[wintry dust]

Lore, yes

[fading mist]

the loop is press 4, run around do damage , find a group of enemies and detonate your 4, repeat

[stiff beacon]

Railjack part manufacturers go

[wintry dust]

And here we go again.

[fading mist]

Roathe 21 hellstory sure is something

I need more

[restive river]

I gotta do more of em

With the holidays n personal issues I’ve unfortunately been lacking
But I’m doing my best with the kim convos at least

The triad are incredibly fun and I love all the new lore bits we get from em

[fading mist]

wait... devil's triad stuff

||???? when did entrati took roathe from, oblivion says he is taken from his time, so the empire was still up? but now he got here, how did he know pretty much all of the entire empire fall||

looks like he did a lot of backreading histories huh

[stiff beacon]

Literally during a crucial step of roathe and nitohks coup

[fading mist]

how many books did he read to know what happened after lmao

[stiff beacon]

Probably just some files on the pom2

[fading mist]

I wonder how long has tuvan threate has been a thing, since the age range has dropped from adults into kids when we know of it

[ashen pulsar]

The Yuvan list but it’s literally just every orokin old enough to have used continuity

[fading mist]

raothe also said it was a highest glory... but it seems to have became a normalization

[lean garden]

very long

[ashen pulsar]

anyways, probably as long as continuity has. maybe a bit shorter.

[fading mist]

welp, does that mean orokin was actually decent, until it became depravacy

[lean garden]

for the briefest of moments in their long history maybe

[ashen pulsar]

at the very beginning the orokin were good people

that was before the vain faith

[golden raptor]

Are Adis and the Chosen Operator the only students at tauron academy lmao

[fast dew]

They weren't really orokin at that time imo

[ashen pulsar]

and a very short blip compared to the entire empire’s reign

[ashen pulsar]

no.

[fading mist]

there are more tennos and sentients, but Adis was like the only one healer in the team I think

[golden raptor]

So we just have a separate, personalized graduation? Are Adis and the operator the only "operator/sentient" pair?

[fading mist]

hm tauron adepts

its either that we reached enough collaboration, or ballas man did something...

[restive river]

We did graduate

[fading mist]

but why was it so sudden just after balls did something in secret

[restive river]

There had to be other tenno though or he’d know it was us and we’d be dead, or punished in whatever way he could cause

[restive river]

Wdym?

[ashen pulsar]

idk, quest is vague on the whole tauron academy thing

[restive river]

The peace treaty was always planned to fail, the moment it did the Grineer on the behest of the Orokin pulled an Order 66 on the Sentients

[ashen pulsar]

“remember this”
— ballas, before forgetting who the tenno that helped him was and before our memories got wiped

[fading mist]

well, balls man did something in secret with itzam, and then we just suddenly went to graduate and given the ayatan sculpture

[twin wigeon]

the anarchs were backed by nitokh and roathe right?

[humble sierra]

Yeah they just used the Rebellion as an escape, the Orokin never would've allowed the Sentients to have freedom

[fading mist]

but raothe was taken away in the last minute tho

[golden raptor]

Did the Sentients actually do the work to terraform Tau, or was it just those large eggs?

[restive river]

Not with Itzam
And the ayatan was from Margulis with the codes

[restive river]

They did yeah

The eggs never activated til the quest and the sentients terraformed Tau before the war started iirc

[lilac aspen]

The Sentients were great workers

[humble sierra]

"The day Ballas graced you with his presence was the day your life changed, but for me it was Tuesday"

[fading mist]

they did terraform, but it was the last important thing in the end, fully terraform it for the humans means killing off the atmosphere which the xenoflora needs

[lilac aspen]

We need to clearly grow a few flowers before going to tau

[fading mist]

problem being xenoflura was only ever found on tau... we need to head there and find, it theres any more on any of the other maybe unexplorered planets/moons

[restive river]

The xenoflora only granted the fragments sapience fyi

Not all sentients needed it, only the fragments
They consumed it and were no longer part of the hivemind that is a sentient and it’s fragments

[wintry dust]

Sorry to interrupt you, but is there any psychopath who uses the Umbra Warframe?

[fast dew]

Me

[restive river]

Excalibur Umbra?
Yeah plenty do

[fast dew]

Hes still at 37% for me

[restive river]

There’s an augment to turn off the ai passive if you don’t want it lol

[wintry dust]

Yes, it's fun to play with him.

[ashen pulsar]

hey, we forgot it too.

[fast dew]

Why is that even an issue btw 😭 I think its so neat

[fading mist]

but how many xeno sentients left out there, or have they all returned to the big boi sentient... or there's more sentient childs, idk what to call them, like the lotus/erra

[wintry dust]

Hey man, just one question. Is Ordis supposed to be the alternate reality version even with the normal operator?

[restive river]

It’s buggy

[fading mist]

it used to turn off all buffs, got fixed a little, but sitll turns off all subsume abilities

[golden raptor]

So the timeline goes like:

Sentients were invented > Went to Tau for terraforming > Rebelled against the Orokin > Warframes are invented > Zariman Incident/Recovery > Margulis or whoever makes the connection that the tenno can do transference on Warframes > Tenno Schools are invented > Old Peace

Is this correct?

[lilac aspen]

Lotus is a sentient mimic
Erra is…
Idk what he is

[restive river]

No flowers = no sapient fragments

[ashen pulsar]

oh it does?

[fading mist]

but do they need to be constantly fed though, dactolyst only returned to drone mode due to galastra's influence, not about not getting any more flowers

[ashen pulsar]

weird

[wintry dust]

Basically, that's it.

[lean garden]

slight correction, zariman incident happens before the sentients reach tau

[wintry dust]

But there's more to it than that, I think.

[lilac aspen]

A mixture actually
Starved of xeno flowers and then given exact orders via its model number and stuff

[lean garden]

and margulis makes transference therapy, only later did a dude called davis or something figure out it could be used on warframes

[fading mist]

drasus?

[lilac aspen]

Without the flowers they start to seek orders
If they don’t get orders (flowers giving them free will [their own orders] or command protocol stuff)
They go back to the hivemind

[restive river]

Close

Sentients are invented > head towards Tau > Orokin get impatient, make Zariman > Zariman Incident > Sentients make it, finish the rail and terraform > Old War (sentients shot first) > Gen 1 Frames > Gen 1 Frames retired > Zariman returns > Margulis helps the Tenno (teaches them the schools iirc) > Gen 2 Frames piloted by Tenno > Old War > Old Peace > Old War pt 2 > Hunhow destroys the rail > Night of the Naga Drums

[restive river]

Yes they need to be constantly fed

[golden raptor]

Do ALL Sentients go drone mode from not consuming xenoflora? What about Natah/Hunhow/Erra?(I still don't know why he went insane)

[lilac aspen]

I can only assume they need to eat the flowers in the same way people need to eat meals

[restive river]

No, only the fragments do

An example of a fragment is the War sword from the Second Dream

[lilac aspen]

So basically once the flowers died
It was a slow “starve”

[fading mist]

bit confusing, after reading roathe stuff, about the timing of not using and destroying the rail's timeline

[lean garden]

erra went "insane" because someone stapled another sentient onto his body, and that one went coocoo because theres two conflicting minds in one body

[restive river]

The rail was still active after the Old Peace but was later destroyed by Hunhow when he would attack

[golden raptor]

So, like Adis technically won't go drone mode? Or was he just a fragment? Is being a fragment just a permanent thing or do the eventually "grow" into non fragments?

[lilac aspen]

I, too, would go insane by not only being revived from the dead, but I’m stapled to another being who was also revived from the dead and is very, very angry.

[restive river]

He got to the Origin System via him and whoever he brought with him hiding in Praghasa

[fading mist]

still a bit confused on erra, some story in the codex are lies...

iirc erra was destroyed, and balls resurrected him with kuva? and then tires to manipulate natah...

[restive river]

Being a fragment is a permanent thing, they need the xenoflora to be individuals
He was likely a fragment though yes

Fragments are just extensions of the primary Sentient unless they get Xenoflora, then they’re suddenly an individual!

[fading mist]

what do we call bred sentients like natah and erra...

[lilac aspen]

Imagine your hand wandering off and becoming its own person

[lilac aspen]

Sentients

[fast dew]

True sentients ig?

[restive river]

In theory you could feed the War sword a xenoflora and it’d be it’s own being, no longer an extension of Hunhow til he runs out

[restive river]

Sentients

[golden raptor]

Did we ever get who did the stapling thing lol. Last I saw him was the sacrifice he did during New War, and then boom he's now insane

[fading mist]

but sentient is also for the big boy original sentients...

[restive river]

Likely Nira

[lean garden]

was hinted to be nira by lotus

[lilac aspen]

I think it was Narmer who found Erra’s body and used it for Pazhuul

[restive river]

And?

[lilac aspen]

Or however you spell his name

[fading mist]

so call them collosus sentients?

[fast dew]

Pazuul?

[restive river]

Lotus and Erra aren’t fragments, they’re “true sentients”
They do not require xenoflora

Just call them sentients

[fast dew]

Still funny to me that hunhow has a womb

[restive river]

It’d be like calling a baby a “true human” lmao

[fading mist]

well, fragments are basically seperatable limbs anyway

[golden raptor]

So the archons we kill duri g the archons hunts don't really die and the weekly refresh thing is canonically them just regenerating? Cus we killed the archons during the quest right after Erra does his sacrifice

[lilac aspen]

My poor boy Amar
Bro did not deserve to go from wholesome boyo to violence

[restive river]

Based Hunhow

[north jolt]

Oh great Lizzie 2.0

[fast dew]

Hes me fr !!

[lilac aspen]

I think it’s more like the Narmer just getting other Archon Shards and reviving them

[restive river]

Yeah, they’re fragments that don’t have a will or mind of their own UNLESS they have xenoflora

[lilac aspen]

Because we do tear out and take the shard basically.

[ashen pulsar]

no. there are sentients and sentient fragments/drones

[restive river]

I was gonna mention it but wasn’t sure if you’d think it was funny lol

[fast dew]

Nah its funny to me

[ashen pulsar]

they don’t need to be big

[restive river]

Yeah I believe so

[restive river]

you’re hunhow

[golden raptor]

What's the difference between a fragment and an eidolon?

[lilac aspen]

Fragments are alive
Eidolons are dead

[restive river]

Fragments are pieces of a sentient
Eidolons are undead

[fading mist]

no no
there are the original big ship ones
they can breed new small sentients I guess
and then the big ones can also send out fragments/drones...

[lilac aspen]

Eidolons are basically undead Sentients

[restive river]

Fragments are as alive as a fingernail I can control

Unless they get that sweet sweet xenoflora

[fast dew]

Warlord with two estranged children, a murderous housemate and his dying wife, broken womb™ and vendetta against blue people

[north jolt]

Considering their robotic nature I always interpreted this as not being a literal "womb" per say but the sentients basically having reproducing asexually, possibly through some kind of internal factory or assembly. Like having a 3D printer that makes smaller replicas of you (probably a bad analogy)

[lilac aspen]

I consider my finger very alive
Until some monkey pulls out a staff to smash it into oblivion

[restive river]

Everything about him is valid except the weird racism arc he went down

[fading mist]

if you think about it, xeno doesn't actually give framents individuality, they are just being piloted by flowers like parasites 🔥

[restive river]

I mean if it was separated from me lol

[restive river]

That is certainly a theory!

[ashen pulsar]

eidolons are corrupted, near-dead sentients

[restive river]

Basically undead

[fading mist]

nah, eidolons are just zombies sentients

[restive river]

Eidolon means like
A ghost basically so

[ashen pulsar]

like if you went from being alive to being a zombie without dying

[restive river]

Yeah!

[lilac aspen]

Death to Sentients is very different than death to humans

[restive river]

Basically Eidolons are like your pc you refuse to fix cause it totally still works, look it runs Warframe at 30 fps on the lowest settings!

[lilac aspen]

“Kill me…”

[golden raptor]

So by the time of the night of the Naga drums
, were all operators asleep by that point, and it was all Warframes that did the dirty deed? Or was it just the chosen operator that's asleep?

[restive river]

“Later.”

[fading mist]

how did natah even know of this form anyway, and the light reflection on the eyes...

[north jolt]

Actually I forgot Natah does have a mother so scratch half this theory. They can sorta mimic sexual reproduction but I still think it's more or less like a little factory that's just able to incorporate different traits from two parents

[restive river]

All tenno were in the dream, they all acted in the night of the naga drums save Rell maybe

[lilac aspen]

Ballass probably gave Natah a picture to copy

[restive river]

It’s like how robots are born in futurama

[fast dew]

... ballas gave natah Margulis' memories didnt he?

[north jolt]

Or the movie Robots

[fast dew]

Funny film

[restive river]

He did a thing to make her like Margulis yeah

[restive river]

Oh much better example lol
Futurama’s is wide spread and kinda just weird sometimes lmao

[north jolt]

But with a weird race of biomechanical clankers

[lilac aspen]

You can’t say that word
Void Lugger

[restive river]

That word is gonna become a real slur someday 😭

[fast dew]

Tbf people use it in place of real slurs

[restive river]

Me when I void blast you

[fast dew]

People love to jump onto it

[restive river]

Oh that’s
Bad ):

[golden raptor]

So the reason why Margulis made ALL tenno go into the dream was to protect them from the consequences of the crashout that the chosen operator did (justified) at tauron academy?

[fading mist]

does void lugger means sentients that are learning the tenno ways, aka the void...

[restive river]

I know a lot of people jumped onto it when it became popular

[north jolt]

I'm not a void lugger and I can say what I want! (Within server rules and guidelines)

[restive river]

The moment we have a true sapient ai it’s not a joke anymore

[restive river]

No that’s just why we were put in
The others likely just were for their own protection anyway

[north jolt]

The moment that happens they're going to become a wage slave like the rest of us and that's a BEST case scenario

[lilac aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-anime-attack-laser-anime-laser-beam-gif-8059515815729310221

[fading mist]

how were the naga drumes celebrated anyway, just a bunch of warframes kneeling?

[fast dew]

Ive never particularly liked using any form of slur as a joke. "Oh but its fictional" yeah but the fact you're rejoicing about being able to say a slur is weird

[restive river]

Equal rights at least ig?

[restive river]

Octavia did the drums and then the tenno struck the Orokin

[lilac aspen]

I think?
I do know the thing was described by Stalker

[restive river]

It wasn’t entirely swift and was brutal

[fading mist]

the tenno or the warframes

[restive river]

Also it was originally planned by Ballas

Cause of course it was

[lilac aspen]

Stalker was watching it
Noticed something was off
But couldn’t speak for obvious reasons

[golden raptor]

Oh ok so the only one who's going to get charged for treason was the chosen operator and not Tenno as a whole? And Margulis essentially took on that charge got executed in our stead?

[fading mist]

well, planned by balls man, then lotus ordered the warframes I think

[north jolt]

Wait I just thought of something

[restive river]

Yeah, among other things
Protecting the tenno that sought to kill Ballss there and then was probably a big reason his trust in her was further broken

Ballas legit loved her but it didn’t last long and just got worse with time

Void forbid a woman love anything or anyone in a completely different way ig

[fading mist]

man didn't grow with time, and his pride cost everyone greatly

[restive river]

The tenno
But yeah

[lilac aspen]

“Guys! The Tenno are planning something!”
….
“Oh no their Air Pods are in!”

[restive river]

Someone should like
Suck the soul out of him on the back of a dead sentient next to the sun

[north jolt]

Night of the drums was for revenge against Margilus being executed right? But before that happened Natah came into the picture and was turned into the Lotus, intentionally made to resemble Margilus. But, did the Tenno know she (Lotus) wasn't the real Margilus?

[humble sierra]

She was made to deceive them

[fading mist]

she's just a micmic, afterall (camera spinning)

[restive river]

And then realized “wait but i want kids…” and the plan changed

[wind ruin]

Octavia played the Naga Drums as part of the ceremony that the Orokin Emperors had set up to 'honor' the Tenno at the apparent end of The Old War. But the specific beats and patterns she used were military, not ceremonial (is the impression I got) and it was the signal for the Tenno to attack the Orokin.

[humble sierra]

They didn't know who Margulis was at that time, pretty sure the dream was in effect

But they subconsciously knew?

[restive river]

The
Tenno??

The Tenno knew Margulis

[wind ruin]

The Tenno knew Margulis was executed.

[fading mist]

but they were put to sleep, and imagine themselves solely just warframes?

[golden raptor]

Man that would've caused some emotional turmoil in other operators. Imagine just chilling, studying at tauron and then your "mom" gets killed cus she was defending the crashout of some other operator.

[north jolt]

Right, but I'm just wondering if the tenno somehow already knew and just went along with it or if someone revealed the truth to them at a later time

[wind ruin]

eventually, yes, after the Orokin empire was torn down, the Lotus put the Tenno to sleep and they forgot.

[humble sierra]

But doesn't Margulis put them to sleep at the end of the Old Peace and lock away their memories?

[golden raptor]

Wait... Was Tauron the ONLY tenno-sentient hybrid academy separate from the usual tenno schools, or was the whole tauron strike thing just normal curriculum for all tenno?

[fading mist]

that was just one operator

[lilac aspen]

Our Operator specifically

"They don't know it, but I'm the main character." - The entire Squad

[restive river]

Yeah

[thick yacht]

To the Empire

Long may we reign

[restive river]

No

Please never reign ever again they did a bad job

Keep ragebaiting though it’s funny

[fast dew]

Do i need to compare the empire to real world things to show that this is a bad sentiment

[restive river]

I doubt they’d change their mind ngl

Might double down even

[fast dew]

Mm.

Should I explain to them what happened to the dax dagath was? I think that could at least sway them

If not thats... concerning.

[restive river]

No, they’d say “that’s just two orokin, they’re not all bad” or something

[lean garden]

bromethus would join the ISB

[wind ruin]

|| Margulis locks away the Operator's memories of what happened that day in order to protect them from execution. But the Operator isn't the only Tenno and they kept fighting under the Lotus' coordination. Remember the flashback scene where Erra and the Lotus meet, with the Operator and five other Tenno arrayed around the Lotus? That happened near the end of The Old War.||

[fast dew]

Like the whole argument against the not all men thing 💔 yes we know its not all men but we dont know when it is that man

"Not all are literally abusers !!" While that statement is true, id rather not take that risk thank you. This applies to the orokin

[thick yacht]

I feel like Zod trying to argue with Kal-El

Is nothing i’m saying being understood

[fast dew]

You're just. Wrong. On so many reasons.

[wind ruin]

I wonder what Eleanor would think if she could meet Lyon and Marie. Eleanor almost became one of the Sisters.

[fast dew]

Noone wants to listen to you, because you dont actually listen to us when we're telling you that the orokin empire isn't all that.

If you can supply an actual argument, that answers all our questions and proves that we're wrong. Then sure, we'll listen.

We are mostly fair, I like to think I am

[restive river]

And this is why I wish if you did a polycule that they’d talk to each other at the very least

[wind ruin]

Not even a polycule, but just... getting them in the same room together to talk.

[restive river]

Maybe not the same room but def talking through KIM

[wind ruin]

And how the 'legend' of Lyons, Marie, and the Devil might have translated forward over a hundred years.

[glass flume]

with all the xenofloras and hive mind thing, does it mean that the sentients came to the origin system just to get sole orders from the orokin but the orokin took it as an attack and just sent ballistic on them?

and how did erra and hunhow remain their sentience after all those time without the xenofloras?

[strange plinth]

sentients built the rail, the orokin crossed it, the sentients attacked

• the sentients would die to void exposure in the rail

[strange plinth]

the xenoflora gave the fragments individuality, but 'greater' sentients like hunhow, erra, natah, etc. would've already had it

[glass flume]

so does that mean that the old war took place on tau? not on the origin system?

[thick yacht]

You don’t want to listen to be because you refuse to approach the Orokin from anything other then absolute negatives

You refuse to see any good about the Empire or the Orokin themselves

[ashen pulsar]

we haven't really been given any positives

[fast dew]

... you dont know that I'm like. The Albrecht defender do you

I can defend some questionable people.

[thick yacht]

EVERY civilization that had ever existed has both positive and negative aspects about it

Some have more of one or the other

[fast dew]

Hell, I've defended a group of people arguably worse than the orokin

So like

[thick yacht]

Who.

[strange plinth]

both
the sentients were able to cross the rail, at the cost of praghasa dying and the other sentients hiding inside her becoming sterile

[ashen pulsar]

but what positives have we been given of the orokin to approach them with?

[fast dew]

The maykrs! They're quite literally a stand in for a fascist regime! Only issue is. They're drones. A lot of them cannot control what they did.

[lean garden]

the smidgen of potential that they might have turned things around had they have sufficient motivation

[fast dew]

Doom lore is fun.

[lean garden]

thats it really

[lean garden]

and I say motivation, not opportunity, because as roathe would have demonstrated, opportunity was ripe for the making then taking

[ashen pulsar]

oh, please. had there been any significant number of orokin around at one time, they wouldn't have changed.

[fast dew]

Oh you think killing children is bad? Wait until you learn that the maykrs just. Did that. Not even for immortality. They killed you if you didnt believe in them.

[ashen pulsar]

they're an echo chamber of vanity, greed, and so many other horrible things.

[lean garden]

hence needing sufficient motivation

enough to upturn the system they reside in

[strange plinth]

how did i leave for a few hours and we're still here

[lean garden]

which like only one orokin really demonstrated that quality

[restive river]

The only positive about the entire empire I can think of is their art and sciences, which mean nothing when beside the horrors of the empire

[lean garden]

and he's datable now so

[fast dew]

Or Davoth, who is kinda similar to wally, but if the weird "wally was just a baby" thing was actually true. He still killed thousands as retaliation. I've defended worse than the orokin. So I'd love to hear you out, I just actually need to see a reason to why your points are valid

[restive river]

I think we looped back around cause they came back actually lmao

[strange plinth]

fair enough then

[ashen pulsar]

the amount of damage it takes to change even one orokin is crazy, and albrecht's still a jerk.

[dire mountain]

This is almost self aware

[ashen pulsar]

I think kazirei starts this argument by talking

saying like literally anything about orokin and the argument will restart

[restive river]

I mean they keep coming in and keep saying something like “glory to the empire” or whatever lol

[thick yacht]

[ashen pulsar]

like a match in a fire that's alllllmost burnt out

[restive river]

I’ve blocked em cause it’s not worth my time by this point
They won’t change their mind so I won’t engage

[thick yacht]

You’ve given me no reason to change my mind and plus you want me and my family DEAD for having money

So please, never talk to me again.

[fast dew]

What

Holy delusion???

[dire mountain]

What

[fast dew]

Homie you're not an orokin.

If you are, you need to hand yourself to the police.

[thick yacht]

Their view is, from what I understand, all people with wealth are evil

Like genuinely

[fast dew]

... never said they wanted you and your family dead

Guess bcs I've been abused by cops i want all cops dead?

You understand how silly that is

[thick yacht]

I asked them if the child of a billionaire should be killed, and they said something along the lines of “it depends”. Granted I’m not the child of a billionaire but my family would be considered within the 1% if wealth earners where I live

That’s what made me not want to talk to them

[ashen pulsar]

im saying the child murderers are evil?? let's not generalize this so much.

[thick yacht]

I’m not talking about the Orokin now

[fast dew]

So its not you

So its not about you.

It doesn't mean you.

[thick yacht]

I’ve seen where that argument goes, it’s a slippery slope if I’ve ever seen one

[fast dew]

Holy delusion.

If they say billionaires, and you aint one.

IT DIDNT MEAN YOU.

[thick yacht]

Have you ever heard of slippery slope

[lean garden]

also like reminder: comparing the Orokin society to the generic "wealthy" is also a smidgen of a strawman

[ashen pulsar]

the logical fallacy?

[thick yacht]

It’s not a fallacy.

[fast dew]

Have you ever heard of people have being abused by those people and understandably want them dead

[lean garden]

unless of course the wealthy do actually do that adrenochrome conspiracy, in which WHAT

[fast dew]

Or is that impossible to grasp

[ashen pulsar]

..........tf

[thick yacht]

What?

What are you talking about

[ashen pulsar]

the slippery slope fallacy is the full name of that argument btw

slippery slope is a logical fallacy.

[thick yacht]

Look, if you don’t like the Orokin for their many, many crimes that’s one thing. It’s a game, it is what it is, you can have your views on factions and I can have mine and we can be reasonable and respectful

I understand why the Orokin are hated, I do

They have done truly awful things

[lean garden]

Im talking about how you like to do a comparison of the orokin to today's wealthy, but the Orokin are so much more than just the "wealthy" and the only way for the "wealthy" to begin to broach what the orokin are in their empire, is for wack conspiracies about the 1% harvesting things from children is true, to which that is a really wacky thing

[thick yacht]

I would pray to God that it isn’t true, I would be calling for heads myself if it were. Children are the most innocent and vulnerable in society and should always be protected.

[lean garden]

uhuh, so now we look at the orokin

[torpid quiver]

Okay weird thought

[fast dew]

You know, you having rich parents suddenly explains a lot

[lean garden]

who have done worse than that

which is why its very difficult to justify the continued existence of the empire

[torpid quiver]

You guys think that if our tenno, didn't get knocked out and memory wiped by margulis, We may have sided with the sentients?

[ashen pulsar]

and to be fair 99% of billionaires probably aren't good people. you don't really become a billionaire by being a good, kind, selfless person.

[torpid quiver]

Just weird thought I had i feel like we would've

[waxen mesa]

Does stalker live nearby to drifter camp these days?

[fast dew]

There's some exploitation or something somewhere. Always is.

[dire mountain]

1% room otherwise is too much

[lean garden]

maybe? I mean we did just get backstabbed by our empire and lost our dear sentient friend

no way to know, given what did happen

[torpid quiver]

I like to think that Stalker comes to the operator every now and then for help with his warframe kid

[thick yacht]

I dissociate that from reality because they are not real. I can look at them from a neutral perspective and at least understand the good they have done and, in my view, better state of humanity as a whole that was left by them if nothing but their advanced technologies. I cannot, and will not, give the same grace to those who harm children in reality, they are monsters and do not deserve to breathe air.

[torpid quiver]

Or maybe he goes to lotus

I do find the idea of stalker dropping his kid off with lotus like shes a babysitter

[fast dew]

Okay but who do you think the fictional people are based upon?

[ashen pulsar]

we would hate the orokin but idk about the sentient thing. without the xenoflora, nearly all the sentients we knew became mindless drones. unless we somehow rebuilt all of the original sentients there's just no understanding.

[torpid quiver]

Like canonically stalker and operator dont really have beef anymore right?

[strange plinth]

imo, maybe, but complicated. framing us for restarting the war isn't the best look for the orokin, but we're also kill on sight to the sentients after that moment
tbf though we kinda are siding with the sentients, in the end

[thick yacht]

I don’t know what the Orokin are based on.

[dire mountain]

What statement do you think the writers are trying to make?

[lean garden]

but then why are their evils given the dissociation, but their goods are not?

[thick yacht]

I assume some type of ancient sacrificial society

[lean garden]

idk, I can think of a few very modern imperial shapes

[torpid quiver]

Well to my understanding its the splinter sentients that lose self. The main ones lime hunhow, era, natah, for example, keep their sense of self right?

[fast dew]

... rich people. They're a allegory for exploitative and abusive leaders. Often those leaders are... rich people.

[ashen pulsar]

whenever society gets sent in to space, everything gets dilated to HUGE scales. including evil governments and nobilities.

[lean garden]

hell one of them isnt an empire technically, but imperialism is all the game still

[fast dew]

I shouldn't need to spell it out to you, its painfully obvious 😭

[ashen pulsar]

see: dune

[lean garden]

or Star Wars

[torpid quiver]

Anyway overall, I think atleast my version of the Operator would've sided with the sentients. And that Stalker drops Orion off with lotus like shes a day care when he goes to do work

[ashen pulsar]

that too

[fast dew]

Doom, I can say doom

[dire mountain]

Halo, even

[torpid quiver]

Possibly dead space

[fast dew]

-# the UAC, The maykrs, Jekkard ect

[ashen pulsar]

exactly. so we can't reach an understanding without all sentients being whole.

[torpid quiver]

Which is scarier, flood, infested, or the marker necromorphs

Weird side convo ik but humor me

[thick yacht]

Ok. that’s my issue, when you say “rich people”, there are millions of rich people in the world, do we really think that all or even most of them are involved in sick conspiracies to attack and belittle those who are poor and vulnerable?

I’m trying to give you this from the perspective as someone who is BORN INTO that life

[fast dew]

Yeah. You aren't fundamentally evil. It's just where you put that money.

And uh, given you have a blue checkmark on twitter, it says a little bit

[torpid quiver]

Specifically he means theyre an allegory for the top 1 percent of the 1 percent, the billionaires, the aristocrats, the black rock ceos. People like that

Genuinely evil money power hoarding individuals

[lean garden]

Theres like a country somewhere in the world rn where the state is being puppeted by the 1%, surely there are no parallels we can draw

[strange plinth]

design-wise, necromorphs, i think
lore-wise, probably the infested? though i also know the most about them so. . bias is bias

[thick yacht]

why did you look up my twitter? Better yet, how did you find it.

[torpid quiver]

Yes I randomly threw shade at black rock dont judge me

[fast dew]

... its on your profile

[lean garden]

dude you connected it to your discord lol

[restive river]

Were you born into a billionaire family?
No?
You’re not the problem then.

[dire mountain]

Literally linked to your profile 💀

[fast dew]

I got curious, oh no

Go check out the links in mine, idc

Thats why I put them there

[torpid quiver]

I genuinely think like maybe 6 of all the orokin were chill

Roathe is only on that list because he's funny

[fast dew]

Mother was still abusive tbh

[restive river]

The Entrati Family and, with enough effort, Roathe

[restive river]

Grandmother > Mother

[fast dew]

She did stab her husband

[torpid quiver]

Thats pretty much it

[lean garden]

Like its a click away

[torpid quiver]

Okay wait actually

Hold on, what was that one dudes name

[thick yacht]

Damn I forgot I linked it to this account.

Yes I use twitter for artwork, what of it

[torpid quiver]

Omg, there was a single Orokin who felt genuine empathy towards his people, wtf was his name!

[fast dew]

.... you give money to a horrid billionaire, thats my point

[torpid quiver]

I cannot remember it for the life of me

[restive river]

I think that was a dream

[torpid quiver]

There was 1

Just 1 single orokin

[restive river]

Albrecht does feel guilt for his actions

[fast dew]

You also post your art to Twitter, which as fellow artist, is a bad idea.

[restive river]

Thats the best i got lol

[dire mountain]

I have choice words idk if i can say here about that fellow

[thick yacht]

I fundamentally disagree on Musk on many things, but I’ve used Twitter since long before he was CEO

[fast dew]

I did too, you know what I did? Moved.

I moved.

[ashen pulsar]

and yet HES STILL A BAD PERSON

or at least, he does bad things with a good goal

ends justify the means and all

that's how set the orokin are in there ways. even the good ones SUCK

[restive river]

He sucks but in a different way

[fast dew]

It is a bit of a can't make a omelette w out breaking a few eggs situation

[torpid quiver]

Okay im getting info wrong, Margulis is technically an orokin right. So im just screwing up my own head with info

[restive river]

Not the usual on brand suckiness for Orokin

[ashen pulsar]

no she isnt

[dire mountain]

Part of the empire but not the caste

[strange plinth]

she'd be an archimedean, not an orokin

[fast dew]

He sucks as a person, not cus he's a orokin abusing people

[torpid quiver]

Okay then yeah I was messing up info

[restive river]

For the greater good doesn’t excuse it
And
I think he knows that if he does really feel guilty!

[fast dew]

He may be a freak, but its freak (benevolently)

[dire mountain]

Albrecht sucks not because hes orokin but the two are related

[torpid quiver]

Literally only the entrati family were semi-decent

[restive river]

Albrecht is also just the most fashionable Orokin

[thick yacht]

I have nowhere to move to

[fast dew]

Yeah his blue form is pretty fun

[ashen pulsar]

he sucks because even now that he's realized he should be a good person he still has his heavy orokin upbringing

[restive river]

Semi in the biggest of boldest letters lol

[torpid quiver]

Yup

And roathe, well he gives me butterflies so he gets a pass

[ashen pulsar]

where they would use whatever they want to attain their goals

[lean garden]

lol I look away to answer some emails and everyone is all over the place

[thick yacht]

Regardless, I do not claim to be a better person than any other. I have my own flaws and faults and am not above any of you in any way. I am just another person, imperfect as we all are.

[fast dew]

Bluesky and tumblr? Those are. Like. The other options other than a person funding horrid actions against discrimated against groups

Idk bout you but I'm muckin perfect

[thick yacht]

I’m not.

[torpid quiver]

Is that a fem ballas pfp

[fast dew]

Funny as shit, pretty and a great dude im awesome

[thick yacht]

Despite my… how do I say, views toward the Orokin, I am not like them as a person fundamentally, I hope you all understand.

[dire mountain]

I would rather not give money to the irl alad v personally

[thick yacht]

I want to make that clear.

[torpid quiver]

I would rather take a proto frame injection over being an orokin

[fast dew]

Same

[restive river]

Same

[fast dew]

Rather be a roomba

[torpid quiver]

I would literally rather be the nidus protoframe

[restive river]

Maybe Albrecht could do for me what he did for Marie

[fast dew]

Mm, maybe

[thick yacht]

I do find the Orokin beautiful and their art and architecture as well.

I love gold aesthetics

[dire mountain]

That isnt the issue

[fast dew]

Cept for me, there's no masc frames that float, are there?

[restive river]

Which funnily enough I believe either me or my partner came up with a concept for that before her deal was known lol

[thick yacht]

[torpid quiver]

God I need to become a genuine voice actor so I can have a chance to get into warframe some day

Ive been told I should try

[restive river]

Caliban
Dante
Technically Rhino bug mode skin

[torpid quiver]

Actually wait

[restive river]

I could see you being a Caliban proto ngl

[fast dew]

:D

Yayyyy brilliant idea

[torpid quiver]

Would a xaku protoframe even work because that would be horrifying

[ashen pulsar]

idk man... killing kids to live forever and using billions of lives like toys in a board game? sounds like the LIFE

the uhh really really long life

[glass flume]

all of them if you equip them with wisp's animation jk

[dire mountain]

The orokin architecture is supposed to be pleasing. Their technology is supposed to be almost magic in nature.

The thing about the orokin is that they are gilded. The outer layer is appealing but once you peel it back it is abhorrent.

[strange plinth]

what would stop them?

[torpid quiver]

If so id rather be a Xaku protoframe over being a orokin.

[fast dew]

Id rather be kalymos

[thick yacht]

I’m aware of the issue: my views aren’t liked because to you all I am justifying the existence of an Empire seemingly built on a foundation of persecution of innocents, abduction and destruction of children, vainglorious, violent, vile leaders, and a corrupt core that is seemingly responsible for all of the ills of the current universe.

I am many things, I am not delusional or not self aware, however.

[ashen pulsar]

like some sort of... gilded truth?

[fast dew]

Infinite food....

[torpid quiver]

The fact xaku pulling itself apart is a horrifying concept in the lense of a protoframe

[thick yacht]

Am I right or am I wrong

[torpid quiver]

Kaz

I would sooner feed myself to my helminth Jerry, than consider an orokin beyond the entrati bloodline as half decent

[stray herald]

may we never get xaku proto bc that sounds too horrifying a concept to be put to life

[torpid quiver]

Yes his name is Jerry

[thick yacht]

And that is where we disagree, once again.

[fast dew]

Id rather be a woman than be an orokin
-# this isn't misogyny, I'm a trans dude

[stray herald]

my helminth is called selim

[thick yacht]

If only because I am severely down bad for Roathe.

ANYWAY.

[torpid quiver]

Weird side question, your profile says android, can I play warframe on my android?

[thick yacht]

We shall move on

[strange plinth]

soon™
its in beta atm, should have full release early next year

[thick yacht]

[torpid quiver]

Cause im in canada rn visiting family and my setup isnt mobile so if I can do it on my android im about to set it up rn

[thick yacht]

It isn’t my fault Roathe is fine ok

[torpid quiver]

https://tenor.com/view/404soob-pepe-pp-gif-21552696

[thick yacht]

Rebb did this by getting Emet-Selch

🗿

[torpid quiver]

https://tenor.com/view/cyclops-ryu-dap-me-up-dap-dap-up-gif-2485274535169214603

[stray herald]

oh I just wanted to see what's in android chat. but for now, android is in closed beta, so you'll only get to play if you have applied for closed beta and have received an email that let's u play

[torpid quiver]

WHERE DO I APPLY

[thick yacht]

Anyway, to you @fast dew I will say this: yes the Orokin were bad, and yes they probably did need to go. I, if nothing else, just want to preserve their appearance, art, and architecture.

[glass flume]

as far as i can make out of it, the orokin wasn't built on persecution and all those atrocities; it's kind of like tomorrowland where all the top minds teamed up and built a society. but over time, the innovations and the prestige that comes with it went to their heads and lusted for more, leading to them doing extreme stuff which we all know about. the orokin empire were built on good intentions: preservation and progress, but with lack of self-control made them build that monstrous reputation

[thick yacht]

YES

This is it

Precisely

This is what i believe

You articulated it so well

[fast dew]

So somehow, its worse

At least imo

[glass flume]

they still are pricks tho. only thing roathe has done is be self-aware of those things

[glass flume]

yes, it's way worse

[wind ruin]

Yes... and no. The Orokin started as the heads of influential corporations and billionaires. Sociopaths, all, because you don't get at that level without being a sociopath.

[dire mountain]

Well, no not really. I dont think anything in the lore suggests good intentions. It actually suggests the opposite (evil shadowy enclave wants to rule the world in 1999)

[stray herald]

I haven't the faintest. you will have to check with #ios-discussion for more info

[thick yacht]

They were supposed to check themselves, but they didn’t, and thus let themselves become degenerate heathens

I think that’s what it came down to

They only ever put themselves as the safeguards

Instead of relying on the collective strength of humanity

Perhaps when they were first formed, humanity was in a weak state due to the radiation wars

I am purely theorizing here

It is like that statement: the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and perhaps they had those good intentions once

[dire mountain]

Yeah thats also the perfect time for your shadow cabal to take over

[thick yacht]

But clearly at some point they lost it and their morality too

[dire mountain]

When the people you plan to subjugate are weak

[fast dew]

Anyways off from this shitty topic.

Give me y'alls best ideas on how Lyon would feel regarding one of his religious icons being straight up Loid

[glass flume]

you have a point, it's probably the greedy shadow group who will turn out to be the orokin

[torpid quiver]

Just signed up thanks

[dire mountain]

Like the people payrolling scaldra

[stray herald]

now pray you get an invite bc the devs will be sending out the last invite wave

[strange plinth]

i feel like he'd spend a not insignificant amount of time glancing between the two while standing in the sanctum
but as for how he'd feel about it, i've no idea

[torpid quiver]

I hope i do because the laptop i have cant run warframe, it can barely run project zomboid lol

Its strictly a classwork laptop

I built my pc for a reason

[thick yacht]

Why couldn’t the Orokin have the beauty without being or becoming so vile

This is where my love for such things leads me

[torpid quiver]

You can be beautiful and a kind heart, sadly most beautiful things in nature are venomous and predatory

Thats the orokin in a nutshell

Mind you the orokin are technically unnatural things

Because gene modification

[glass flume]

in the end it's all about prestige, reputation, connections. that's how it is

[fast dew]

Mm. I suppose thats true. Maybe praying would have him holding them? Like rosary beads?
-# I think.

[thick yacht]

It is not fair

[torpid quiver]

At the end of the day, those with money and power stay in charge sadly

[thick yacht]

I want to see a such a structure built around the moon

[torpid quiver]

Youre right Kaz, its not fair that such a small ruling class has charge of so many people

Its almost like throughout history this kind of thing always goes sour at some point

[thick yacht]

Some believe there are those to rule and those to be ruled

[torpid quiver]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-margulis-orokin-ballas-natah-gif-5544434714955435909

[thick yacht]

I believe that no matter your birth, blood, or standing, if you have the willingness and capability to serve humanity, you should be allowed to

The mind can grow and proliferate into a wondrous form free of material success

It helps, sure, but it isn’t the determining factor

[fast dew]

Its the same thing as the "not all men argument."

[torpid quiver]

I would genuinely rather be a guardsmen in warhammer than serve the orokin

[fast dew]

Yes, we know its not all men

But its impossible to tell when it is that man. Better off safe than sorry.

[lean garden]

I thought lyon was the one who did these up based on his visions?

[thick yacht]

My lone issue with that is that I was raised as a person to not deal in absolutes ever, so the idea of that to me has never crossed my mind

[fast dew]

HE DID???

THATS EVEN FUNNIER

[thick yacht]

I was drilled from a young age to treat individuals separately from groups

[lean garden]

Im not sure, but I went by a conversation somewhere where I came away with that impression

[fast dew]

Idk about Lyon, but i remember every drawing ive done

[lean garden]

not sure how true it is

[fast dew]

So to see the dude i accidentally drew, suddenly exist, would be sooo weird

[ashen pulsar]

YOU BE WHAT

https://tenor.com/view/diem-diemarchive-roy-roythedemon-roy-the-demon-gif-12863794574870003674

[torpid quiver]

I dont get it

[ashen pulsar]

ah its a video from this guy

[lean garden]

perhaps you must also consider how while individuals should not be generalised into monoliths, you must also recognise the pervasiveness of systems

[ashen pulsar]

diem

[lean garden]

we have all given unto a leviathan

[torpid quiver]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-stalker-deal-with-it-protoframe-gemini-skin-gif-10570914445270287948

[ashen pulsar]

became a meme for a bit

[lean garden]

sometimes that leviathan is no longer of our own making

[fast dew]

Don't hurt them stalker

[thick yacht]

Aye

[lean garden]

sometimes the leviathan has existed far longer than it should have

[ashen pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-stalker-gemini-skin-emote-protoframe-gif-15983752389516620100

[thick yacht]

But how do you get rid of the system without destroying that within which can be saved

[torpid quiver]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-duviri-the-duviri-paradox-the-drifter-drifter-gif-2681693716549033181

[thick yacht]

Or do you at a point have to give up on both

[swift sentinel]

Reminder that there's probably no direct line from the O.R.O. group in 1999 to the Orokin of the Origin System other than those kind of power hungry people always existing.

[torpid quiver]

Sometimes a system is so shit it has to be burned down, like what we did with the orokin

[lean garden]

thats the thing, for what you wish for, a super precise scapel is required. Revolutions havent always been precise

[torpid quiver]

Or what the French do every few hundred years

You know beheading the rich and all that

[lean garden]

and in specific for the Night of Naga drums it was a hammer by design

[torpid quiver]

Im joking of course

[fast dew]

A drum hammer...

[lean garden]

the tenno werent agents of revolution, they were tools used by ballas and the sentients

[swift sentinel]

That's why revolutions have a history of not really turning out that well

[ashen pulsar]

"every few hundred years"

[torpid quiver]

The night of the Naga drums. The orokin save like 2 or 3 all got what they deserved

[proper barn]

Oh we disagree about that.

[lean garden]

what was desired by the orchestrators of the Night of Naga drums was never reformation

[swift sentinel]

And the innocent children which 100% existed and we 100% murdered with the rest.

[proper barn]

We didn't kill any children.

[torpid quiver]

Well yeah, they have mini revolutions every few decades, and full blown government toppling ones every few hundred

[thick yacht]

If I am to be blatantly honest for a moment, I disdain what replaced the Orokin for two reasons:

A. they’ve shown no willingness to be any better than what we tore down from what I can see, and may even end up being worse if given the same lengths of power

B. (This is personal) I find their art and architecture (or lack of the former in the Grineer’s case) actually horrid and disgusting. Orokin vessels and ships remind me of past, fallen glories, especially those on Lua or the Derelicts. Grineer ships make me think I’m on some sort of forsaken factory, and Corpus as though I am in Cyberpunk, just with less vibrance,

[ashen pulsar]

save at least 7, some werent present tho

[proper barn]

Also Children wouldn't even be there.

[torpid quiver]

I really doubt there were any like 12 year old orokin dude

[swift sentinel]

Then where are they?

[torpid quiver]

Almost all the orokins families were ancient already by that point

[proper barn]

Idk dawg. But it's shown the Tenno don't hurt kids ag all.

[swift sentinel]

Orokin had children, Euleria, Daughter and Son prove that.

[torpid quiver]

Immortality and all that

[torpid quiver]

Immortality dude

[fast dew]

Well. I mean. If you count them in the bodies they stole from kids

[swift sentinel]

And? They still had children

[proper barn]

They are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years old

[normal mountain]

Yes
But that does not mean that they were young

[proper barn]

Its shown in the story

[swift sentinel]

Doesn't mean they weren't

[proper barn]

We never harm kids.

[torpid quiver]

I truly doubt the tenno killed kids dude.

[ashen pulsar]

the stuff that replaced the orokin are 1. some orokin, leading an army of barely intelligent clones, and 2. the allies of the orokin.

hmmmmmmmmm

[swift sentinel]

Orokin might not have counted to us in our rage.

[fast dew]

Hmm wonder why its so bad

[proper barn]

Like literally every time we see kids in the story we haven't harmed them at all.

[thick yacht]

Yes, and their architecture is, in my opinion (let me make that clear), actually just disgusting

I really do hate Grineer and corpus architecture

[ashen pulsar]

oh, and 3. the infestation, which was always there.

[thick yacht]

It’s so bad

[fast dew]

Worst we got is Rell who wasn't a kid when he died

[torpid quiver]

Corpus is extremely dystopia, grineer is efficient brutalist, Orokin is just, really over the top

[ashen pulsar]

they're like the orokin without a gilded external lair. they show exactly what they are.

[swift sentinel]

Non-Orokin children. There'd also be no way to tell an actual child from a freshly Continuity'd Orokin

[fast dew]

Uh.

Yes there would be

[torpid quiver]

The way they act and carry themselves

Once youre a practically ancient adult in a kids body it'd be pretty difficult to remember how to act like a legit child

[fast dew]

If the theory that orokin children do not have their long arms are correct, then those with long arms would absolutely be adults.

[thick yacht]

Absolutely true. They do.

They make no pretenses about glory, the Orokin do.

[fast dew]

There's also chances they're modifying themselves more the older they are

[thick yacht]

The orokin cover their crimes in gold and silver filigree

[torpid quiver]

Every orokin had to go, ballas had to go the most violently though

[thick yacht]

And admittedly, it is so very beautiful

[fast dew]

Eh

[swift sentinel]

We slaughtered them all over the course of a single night, I don't think we were being careful

[thick yacht]

You will NOT harm Roathe

[fast dew]

I think its disgusting.

Rot is still rot, no matter how sweet it smells.

[torpid quiver]

Oh dont worry, he's harming me

[glass flume]

post-orokin, is the corpus the only faction trying to build a civilization?

[ashen pulsar]

it is elegant, yet so disgusting to see.

[ashen pulsar]

aside from the rest of humanity?

[torpid quiver]

Even then they act pretty orokin dude

[swift sentinel]

Grineer are building a civilization for Grineer

[glass flume]

technically we're already beating him up

[dire mountain]

Ostrons are a civilization iirc

Merchants

[torpid quiver]

Theyre like, 1 fishing village

[lean garden]

there are human colonies all over, we dont interact with them because that would paint a target on their back

[dire mountain]

Wrong

[lean garden]

unless theyre already being targetted

like the ostrons, myconians, solaris

[swift sentinel]

Ostron are a interplanetary trading conglomerate, Cetus is just a main hub of sorts

[torpid quiver]

Then there's the arbiters of hexis

I have no idea who or what they are

I just like the galvanized mods

[thick yacht]

Well, I just like white and gold in general, even in real life

[torpid quiver]

Genuinely what are the arbiters of hexis

[ashen pulsar]

oh most of the syndicates are likely evil

[thick yacht]

When my parents and I moved into our new home, we had it renovated, and some parts (mainly the bathroom and kitchen counters) are white marble veined with gold

[fast dew]

You know. You say you don't judge in whole groups, but your first point literally does this.

[thick yacht]

I always loved gold, always

[ashen pulsar]

meridian at least is good

idk what else

[torpid quiver]

Suda is chill

[latent ice]

Are the Grineers just inbred humans, because they do look like Northern English people

[thick yacht]

When I say they, I mean those in power,

[fast dew]

I can confirm, my dad looks like one.

[thick yacht]

Vey Hek, the Queens, the Board

There can and are absolutely good Grineer and Corpus

Look at Darvo, look at Kahl

[fast dew]

Actually where is kent located in England?

[lean garden]

genuine fan boys

[ashen pulsar]

ehhhh suda only cares about knowledge, she has no care for life.

[torpid quiver]

Of what???

[fast dew]

Idk I'm Australian idgaf about England enough to learn their geography

[lean garden]

kent is located in the Daily Planet

[lean garden]

you

[latent ice]

Promise that's South (I'm in Essex and I think Kent is near)

[torpid quiver]

Oh so my posse

[lean garden]

yea actually more like the idea of you

[thick yacht]

But yes I find Orokin architecture beautiful

[torpid quiver]

I always wondered why the dressed up like weird looking Excalibur

[thick yacht]

[fast dew]

Im gonna put grass in your shoes.

Yes, I do mean grass

[latent ice]

Does AIPAC fund Corpus or vice versa?

[fast dew]

Not glass, I do mean grass.

[thick yacht]

It’s actually kinda bad ngl like both my orbiter and railjack have the Orokin style, as do most of my operator’s clothes

[ashen pulsar]

I find orokin architecture annoying because next to none of the stuff we see has a point and it pmo

[thick yacht]

I may have a bit of an obsession

[swift sentinel]

Hexis are like a weird Tenno (faction) of shoot that want to make sure that everyone is following their interpretation of the Tenno ways

[thick yacht]

[fast dew]

I like utilitarian architecture

[heady sapphire]

guys is uriel like.. a "devilframe"?

[thick yacht]

I hate it ngl

[lean garden]

nothing Im a stranger to

[torpid quiver]

So are they like, tenno that grew up?

Physically I mean

[latent ice]

What about Soviet architecture like commie blocks of apartments

[lean garden]

look at his shields and health and ask again

[ashen pulsar]

like we could wander the halls of the void rooms for a long time and we'd just see more elegant uselessness.

[lean garden]

no

[fast dew]

So... the orokin? That's who's in power for the grineer.

[latent ice]

German architecture looks best tbh

[lean garden]

they're, again, fan boys

[latent ice]

Like Germania

[swift sentinel]

No, Tenno faction that supports the real Zariman Tenno, the people the operate the relays and such.

[heady sapphire]

as a matter of fact i didnt actually look at his shield and health but i am actually asking lore wise 🙂

[thick yacht]

The orokin queens of the Grineer are terrible and need to go, yes.

Absolutely. Take Vey Hek with them as well

[fast dew]

I like French architecture, but I do prefer more industrialised styles found in Slavic countries

[torpid quiver]

So just tenno fan boys that support tenno the most

[lean garden]

okay welcome back to asking again, yes uriel is devil themed but no hes not the literal devil

[swift sentinel]

One down, etc.

[lean garden]

uriel is not the devil from the bible

[thick yacht]

You will not touch Roathe

[ashen pulsar]

there's no practicality, no point, just a lot of fancy nothing.

[thick yacht]

Roathe is my beloved

[torpid quiver]

I want roathe to take me to a ball

[fast dew]

It reeks of overindulgence and arrogance

[heady sapphire]

i see
whats the lore of him again?
i think this my first time seeing him...

[ashen pulsar]

gold and gems and hidden machines that don't provide anything

[torpid quiver]

The biblical uriel was the archangel of "the fire of god"

[latent ice]

Is BlackRock a part of Corpus

[fast dew]

Exactly

[ashen pulsar]

so much money to gain nothing

[thick yacht]

IMO, extravagance and elegance in architecture is a good thing. Everything we build should be a testament to the glory and beauty and advancement of humanity

[fast dew]

I for some indescribable reason thought the seraphim were related to the fire of god?

I know seraphim are related to fire

[thick yacht]

Our structures should be looked upon with awe and wonder

[torpid quiver]

Well seraphim is more like a class of angel

[fast dew]

No, i know

[torpid quiver]

Angel. Seraphim, Archangel

[fast dew]

There's... more than that

[torpid quiver]

Just the main big 3

[ashen pulsar]

so much hard work forced out of lower classes just for this.

[fast dew]

Angel, Archangel, a few others then seraphim

[latent ice]

What's your favourite architecture

[fast dew]

Cherubims are a personal favourites

[fast dew]

Seraphim are above archangels

Thats like, a well known thing

They're the ones that jade is inspired by

[torpid quiver]

No?!?!? Archangels are like gods first born sons

[ashen pulsar]

but if you go into the void and walk around, you'll notice, there's halls and doors and elevators and nothing practical in sight

[torpid quiver]

Michael is an archangel

[thick yacht]

Classical and Baroque

[torpid quiver]

Gabriel is an archangel, Rafael azrael, Samael was

[thick yacht]

[latent ice]

Examples?

[torpid quiver]

Uriel as well

[lean garden]

is that biblical or apocryphal? Im not sure uriel is in the main 66 books of the bible

[thick yacht]

Palace of Versailles.

[latent ice]

I kind of like Germania tbh

[torpid quiver]

There's like 300 versions of Catholicism and Christianity. Uriel is mainly from Catholicism

[thick yacht]

I would love to live in that palace

It would be so beautiful

[fast dew]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_of_angels