lore-discussion

[honest patrol]

but we know that, so this is ignoring the idea that it's something we haven't figured out yet

[restive river]

Did we know that already though, that he found us fascinating due to what he did :?

[lilac aspen]

You’re…

I’m saying Parvos is actually trying to get the corpus to improve

[restive river]

I think you’re kinda stretching it tbh to to fit the narrative of him being another us

[tall echo]

he's not working for it himself

[restive river]

Which does not work with the timeline at all, even with time travel that’s not how that would work

Unless he’s a big bootstrap which I doubt

If he was a version of us why do what he did to us? Why do everything he has been doing?

If his origins in any way lie with being a bootstrapped version of us then he’s long forgotten and no longer is that version of us

[honest patrol]

I felt like that was obvious outside of the narrative, maybe you're right that the drfiter/operator aren't aware that they receive special attention from them, but that seems unlikely in my mind

[honest patrol]

there is an entire update called "the duviri paradox", I don't think it's a crazy stretch that there might be another big one

[restive river]

I mean they are speaking to the Operator/Drifter so
Makes sense, it also further hammers home why he’s fascinated by us and his potential motive for why he split us, which we didn’t know

[restive river]

I’d rather he’s not a bootstrap, as much as I love them they’re
Tricky and can be unsatisfying for something like this

Wally just being a bootstrap would be unsatisfying, a mind bending experience for some sure but
Unsatisfying

We also know they’ll be keeping his origins a mystery

Also another major issue here is that Wally isn’t human, the tenno are

I’m also just not seeing how a bootstrap would really work with him at all

[honest patrol]

I also feel that although it's contrived, using a version of our character draws direct parallels and a sharper contrast narratively to the effects of indifference

[honest patrol]

we know that?

[restive river]

Yes
The tenno are human, just more because of our piece of Wally

Wally has never shown to be human, he can be anyone, any shape and in multiple places

[honest patrol]

oh no, I know tenno are human, I meant that wally is not

[restive river]

To imply he’s some changed version of ourselves relies on things we just don’t know about

[honest patrol]

~conceptual embodiment~

[restive river]

Him secretly being human once and oop conceptual embodiment is why he isn’t now is a cop out

[tall echo]

it's a very weak paradox

[restive river]

It’s also just not what that does

[restive river]

It really is and if it was we would have seen it

If they do it now it’d feel like a retcon

We see the moment of the deal, we know the fate our ourselves and that there was only two

It’s a really weak psyche out to say “BUT ACTUALLY NUH UH”

[tall echo]

the duviri paradox is just "operator helped drifter escape as thanks for helping in the new war which drifter hasn't done yet"

[restive river]

Operator helps Drifter so Drifter can help Operator so Operator can help Drifter so
Etc etc

[tall echo]

the end is never the end is never the end is never the end...

[restive river]

If Wally was we would have seen it already
He also would have been able to just, save himself?? You can say oh he just forget but eh.

We’re on the Zariman
Wally crashes it
Deal happens and the split
Third hypothetical self somehow, someway becomes Wally
Somehow goes back in time without a defined shape or form
Meets Albrecht, finger cut, ftl travel achieved
And then all the way back to the Zariman

It would just be doing Drifter again but psyyyche they’re evil for. A reason
And also conceptual embodiment does something it’s never done before
And Wally goes back in time, somehow despite not having any reason to do so

It’s also implied in KIM convos he can only time travel via those who have interacted with him/the Void iirc, but he’d already be in there but at a point when Albrecht already had effected the void

The hypothetical paradox and timeline is falling apart

[wind ruin]

Yeah, no. The Indifference took on the appearance of Albrecht Entrati because Albrecht was the first physical being to enter the Void. The Indifference did not exist until Entrati entered the Void, but once he entered the Void, the Indifference always existed.

Welcome to an advanced understanding of timeless dimensions.

[restive river]

Yeah probably something along these lines, nowhere near close to him somehow being a version of us cause ???

We don’t know the exacts for Wally
But he ain’t us lol

We have likely influenced him to some degree! But that’s about it

[lilac aspen]

In my opinion Drifter/Operator aren’t Wally in anyway

Drifter and Operator are more like their own Void entity “god” things, if that makes sense

[green beacon]

With yareli prime’s design, does she have 3 tails or just the 1?

[tall echo]

none, it's a skirt

[lilac aspen]

It’s her skin/flesh if you want to be technical about it 🤓

[restive river]

We ain’t gods and neither is Wally

[wind ruin]

The Indifference reflects the person observing it. "Hey Kiddo" is a reflection of the Operator's appearance, "Wally" is a reflection of Albrecht Entrati.

[lilac aspen]

Hence me saying “god”

And not god

[normal mountain]

Hi Roathe

[lilac aspen]

Roathe’s Alt

[ashen pulsar]

it’s the warframe’s added sword-steel accessories if we’re being really technical. metal grown on by the helminth strain.

[ashen pulsar]

wasn’t rell the one who called him the man in the wall?

albrecht called him a few names but I thought wally was rell’s thing

[wind ruin]

"That man in the wall" was something Albrecht said, as I recall.

And on the Zariman, there's graffiti of multiple human arms and a human head trying to 'reach out' from a parallelogram that's obviously a section of wall in perspective.

So its not just Rell who saw it that way.

Tagfer, and the latest emphasis on family, has given me another perspective on what "Wally" is and why he interacts the way he does.

And why Roathe is not so far off on his theory that it's all a Conceptual Embodiment.

[ashen pulsar]

also the “hey kiddo” was part of wally toying with us, mocking us with the memories of the parents he killed. Similarly, he called albrecht “little bengal” as his parents would.

[wind ruin]

(there have been a few updates to Tagfer and the rest of the Cavia's dialog. Mostly Tagfer as far as I know.)

[restive river]

He called him that first, perceived him as such and then Rell saw that as well which likely further enforced it

What Wally is and how powerful he is seems to be based off of other’s perceptions and emotional responses

We call him a god and fear him as such and he shall be one

[woven coyote]

The one thing i hope happens is we find a connection in game to the mirror princess fable

[wind ruin]

Well. I think it's more that "Wally"... is literally Albrecht's brainchild. Albrecht is his 'parent' and never acted like a parent to him... so he's fumbling like an abandoned, poorly socialized child. All full of things it doesn't understand and doesn't have the tools to cope with, and no one who's willing to teach them.

[restive river]

Same

[wind ruin]

Because the one thing Albrecht consistently does, is run away from things he doesn't want to deal with.

[woven coyote]

That one was just to good to be forgotten in the arg

[restive river]

Ok but Albrecht didn’t fall in thinking of a baby

[wind ruin]

BRAIN child, not literal infant.

Born of his thoughts and emotions and fears.

[restive river]

No ik but my point is he didnt fall in thinking of making him

The furthest influence Albrecht had in that moment was his thoughts when falling in and what Wally scoured from his mind

[restive river]

Yes
Conceptual embodiment

[wind ruin]

True; but the moment he did fall in, he separated the Void into "Himself" and "Not himself."

[restive river]

Himself and the other

Wally is a product of conceptual embodiment either way, at least in terms of influence

There’d a whole convo with Roathe about this lol

[woven coyote]

I think he might be a bit off still

[wind ruin]

I think, in the end, the way we deal with "The Indifference" is to get Albrecht to stop being so Albrecht, to connect with his family, and to accept that "Wally" is indeed himself, mirrored onto the Void.

[ashen pulsar]

he’s not a lost kid, not really.

he’s not gonna care if albrecht accepts him. not anymore.

[wind ruin]

Doesnt' act like a human child, no.

[ashen pulsar]

while it’s true that this started because of the conceptual embodiment of albrecht being abandoned before even being fully created, left with only his worst emotions, wally doesn’t want acceptance.

[restive river]

More do from how Albrecht viewed himself and his fear but yeah

Albrecht says himself, he saw himself as a void

Fell into the void
Made a void

[ashen pulsar]

and that’s all that wally saw, before the door closed on his finger.

[restive river]

I mean yeah the door closed

What he saw what a scared man running away

I used to think Wally’s initial meeting wasn’t malicious but
Bro was sucking up memories essentially

And grinning away

[ashen pulsar]

he wasn’t intentionally being malicious tho. he was trying to learn.

[restive river]

He was nothing and then a reflection of a man who saw himself as nothing, then hurt by that same man, his power used without his permission

[restive river]

We don’t know that actually

[ashen pulsar]

what reason would he have to be malicious? He was just created.

[restive river]

We don’t know
We also don’t actually know if he existed prior or not or to what degree

[woven coyote]

Assuming he was really created then and not just given shape

[ashen pulsar]

I need to find that one conversation with roathe where he talks about this whole thing

[restive river]

All we have of the event is Albrecht’s telling

And I can see the possible innocence of Wally but I’m unsure

[woven coyote]

Plot twist
Since warframe doesnt have aliens, wally is the remnant of the ascended humanity of another reality that lost themselves until albrecht reminded them

[restive river]

It does make sense that if he was nothing more than an innocent being in that moment that he’d learn and try to reach out
But he was made from Albrecht, influenced

[woven coyote]

It is still just his theory

He does raise many good points, but until we get a confirmation down the line, it remains a theory

[restive river]

And even if he was innocent that doesn’t really change much in the long run
He’s still done horrible things and Albrecht’s already at fault for him being an issue

[restive river]

Roathe talking about these theories more so prove DE is listening, but iirc there’s multiple theories and possibilities presented both from Roathe and the Drifter

[woven coyote]

I don't think wally is a god
But i also don't think he is merely conceptual embodyment

[restive river]

Which neither really know much more than the other on what Wally actually is
Only one has dealt with him and Drifter is often wrong about Wally (calling him a god)

[woven coyote]

Yup

[ashen pulsar]

yeah

ik

[woven coyote]

Like some descriptions and sentences in isleweaver give me pause on just accepting the ce theory

[restive river]

He’s def more than just ce

[woven coyote]

The stuff about previous heralds, and the temporal dust

[restive river]

But ce is responsible for how he is now, to some extent

[restive river]

Tbf we don’t know how busy he was after his meeting with Albrecht

[ashen pulsar]

simply conceptual embodiment wouldn’t just give him access to the insane power he does have

[restive river]

His timeline from what we know is
Wally and Albrecht meet
???
Zariman

[restive river]

It could, we don’t really know

It let Thrax control all of time in Duviri for instance

[woven coyote]

If the void just became the warp from 40k it could yeah

[restive river]

I’m unsure how limitless CE can really be beyond human emotions and concepts

[woven coyote]

Stuff in 40k usually runs out of control when enough people band together

Like orcs making scrap fly in space

And techpriests praying the error 404 away

[restive river]

Orcs when they believe they’re a tank or whatever

[woven coyote]

Ever seen a purple ork?

[restive river]

No I don’t know anything about warhammer

[ashen pulsar]

well... this is a little different. thrax was created with duviri, designed to control it completely.

[woven coyote]

Oh oops inside joke because of ork logic

Noone's ever seen a purple ork so thar means purple is the stealthy color

Like red goes fast and stuff

[restive river]

LMAO that’s p good

[woven coyote]

Yeah the ruleset was kinda already there in a way

[restive river]

Ok but Drifter didn’t intentionally make Duviri

If one feared an eldritch being enough and was tossed into the void then boom, said being

[ashen pulsar]

but drifter knew thrax as "the king of duviri, the one who controls it" while wally was just created from albrecht's memories.

[restive river]

No? He took the memories after

We don’t know what exactly caused Wally to be

[ashen pulsar]

he took the memories before albrecht saw the clone.

[restive river]

This is the most we have on what went into him

I did see a terrible reflection. Of a man that did not exist. A brave and principled man about to make history. In truth, he was a Void himself. An outcast, a joke, a nothing.

[restive river]

?

I’m checking rn one sec

Yeah no Wally showed up as him first

The memory theft and Wally saying his childhood name came after

[ashen pulsar]

it was as he was falling, was it not?

"all these thoughts seemed to steal away from my mind like smoke through a vent."

the void stealing his memories

[restive river]

Oh yeah nvm

Idk if that was Wally but it may have just been the toll of the first conceptual embodiment

Keep in mind his presence there caused two things
Wally, to some unknown extent
And the Void having usable energy

[ashen pulsar]

it was the void, perhaps creating wally

[ashen pulsar]

that's what was going through his mind at the time.

[woven coyote]

We only know albrecht's pov

So after the bell falls we only have his recollections after he comes to

Which leaves a gap and thus the question of what wally is

[ashen pulsar]

"The wasted years had shown the Void to be just that. Nothing. No energy. No entanglement. No form. To space-faring ambitions, a dead end."
"I would dive into the depths myself to prove them all wrong."

[woven coyote]

It falls
Unknown ammount of time

He comes to describing his despondency at thinking of failure, notices wally, then notices smoke iirc

[ashen pulsar]

he wanted something from the void, and so he got it, just like cavalero wanted stronger guns and got incarnons.

[ashen pulsar]

he mentions thoughts being stolen as he falls.

after seeing wally, he also notices smoke coming from his head.

the entire time, memories and thoughts are being stolen. he escapes, leaving the conceptual embodiment that is wally incomplete.

[restive river]

So what I said lol

[restive river]

I mean yeah, he wanted it to be useful and he was desperate

He’s lucky it worked
Unlucky that something else was made OR he got the attention of something

[woven coyote]

Nope thats after

[ashen pulsar]

yeah. when I said "he took the memories" I meant that the void built him with albrecht's memories.

[ashen pulsar]

nope. look at my citation above.

from the time he's falling until he escapes, his memories and thoughts are being stolen, he just cuts it off early

[ashen pulsar]

over here @woven coyote

from fass

[woven coyote]

Fass is after falling

[ashen pulsar]

it's as he's falling, no?

[ashen pulsar]

and then as the world is created around him.

because he's worried about dying

[woven coyote]

I see it as the scenes in movies where people think they are falling but open their eyes and are on the ground already

[ashen pulsar]

oh maybe. so there's no quotes from him as he's falling then, just from him being on the ground.

[woven coyote]

Especially because of the part starting at "at once i realized..."

[ashen pulsar]

but still this is before he hears footsteps.

[rain solstice]

The new flare message implies that all (or most) of the protoframes were turned into the Warframes. Does that make Harrow's lore outdated since Lyon is clearly different from that kid?

[woven coyote]

It doesnt at all

Flare's message is only about them and temple

[rain solstice]

Doesn't Marie have something about wisp or smt?

[strange plinth]

Marie is aware of the original wisp. describes her as being nearby iirc
not physically but like. spiritually

[woven coyote]

They have the batches of the relevant frames but they dont grandfather paradox no

Marie is aware of the memories of wisp in her infestation

But she doesnt become the original wisp no

[fleet furnace]

i mean, if flare is going to turn into a full temple, the other protos would eventually too, but there can be multiple copies of a warframe so

[ashen pulsar]

also there were tons of harrows.

[fast dew]

Also most all get whablammed in the radwars.

[woven coyote]

Their transformations can complete yes but once again

They do not become the "original" frames

[fleet furnace]

and yeah, the original warframes wouldve already been made

[ashen pulsar]

lyon is unrelated to rell's harrow, but somehow has something to do with rell.

[woven coyote]

Probably just the harrow strain and lizzie's mention of the infestations timeless awareness

[ashen pulsar]

he seems to regard rell as being holy, maybe because he defended the world from wally for so long?

[woven coyote]

Still not the harrow that becomes dust tho

[kindred barn]

Would you not consider Rell some form of Saint if you was a religious man and learned of him?

[ashen pulsar]

oh sure but he speaks of rell like a patron saint and studies the donda.

[restive river]

Flare is specifically the only proto to become the original frame
The others would all be lost after 18 or so radiation wars whereas Temple survives to the Night of the Naga drums via Comet IF Drifter helps

[lean garden]

My thoughts are that because rell confined himself into harrow, the infested can pass it down to lyon via their mind shit

which is why...

wait idk if anyone's reached that conversation, and I've forgotten the number

but uh, see what lyon says when he talks about harrow

[restive river]

Maybe spoiler it just in case lol

[lean garden]

KIM spoilers (because I cant remember how soon it is) ||Lyon felt the ending of Chains of Harrow, because both rell and harrow ceased to be as they were||

[fleet furnace]

i really need to start up on the kim stuff again, when resetting you can pick and choose who gets reset right? so round table, hex, and triad can all be reset independant of eachother?

[lean garden]

yeap

[livid smelt]

I hope nobody gifts me Uriel👀

[lean garden]

he's not a hard farm homie just go for it

[rain solstice]

What are those flowers from the initial cutscene?

[ashen pulsar]

initial cutscene of old peace?

[rain solstice]

The cutscene when you start the game for the first time

[thick yacht]

I’m at close with Roathe

[ashen pulsar]

just flowers

[rain solstice]

Wowzers

[woven coyote]

That initial cutscene was actually made by an outside studio, so it isn't really meant to be accurate or have lore drops

[rain solstice]

Oh. Okay.

[woven coyote]

Even that bubble mag does when catching bullets was only put in game after the community saw the trailer and liked it

So the devs put it in game

[ashen pulsar]

like the girl. she's a tenno, but she doesn't really matter.

she has no lore significance

might be you? maybe? won't be significant for a long time.

[brittle siren]

Unrelated to lore, but does anyone know what is the ost played during the ability showcase for Warframe?

[humble sierra]

The Somachord is the 10 year anniversary one

[brittle siren]

Do you know the exact name?

Or it just 10 year anniversary

[humble sierra]

"10th Anniversary Login Music" from Baro

It might be an actual track somewhere else though

[waxen mesa]

so what did happen to Drifter's reality

[humble sierra]

I think Drifter has come to the conclusion that it's now been erased, and all that's left is their Zariman and Duviri

[waxen mesa]

I guess my question is how that happened

[ashen pulsar]

stopped existing when they left it ig

[waxen mesa]

how does making a pocket dimension in the void cause your reality to collapse

[ashen pulsar]

does eternalism just never work now because there can only be operator and drifter?

[fleet furnace]

assuming that their reality otherwise follows the same timeline, perhaps him not being there for certain events caused issues that led to it collapsing. i assume ballas succeeding in TNW wouldve caused unforseen consequences beyond just losing the sun

[ashen pulsar]

drifter was the difference that created the one other reality. wally condensed every other version of teh operator into one person, so when drifter left their timeline, I guess the "anchor" of that timeline disappeared

[dark compass]

@thick yacht https://fxtwitter.com/PlayWarframe/status/2004054776586162625

WARFRAME (@PlayWarframe)

Happy Holidays, Tenno! We have FREE Glyphs for you to unwrap! 🎁
︀︀
︀︀Redeem code MISTLETOE2025 anytime and enjoy festive artwork from community artist @EleanorGrootch.

**💬 5 🔁 36 ❤️ 224 👁️ 2.0K **

FxTwitter · Dec 25, 2025, 5:01 AM

your wish is granted

[brittle siren]

DAYUM

Still sad there is no dedicated one for Uriel

[dark compass]

Accolade glyph for echoes of old peace, trust

[brittle siren]

No pls no more

I hate Acolade glyph

[dark compass]

hardmode vanguard

[brittle siren]

Most stupid challenge

[dark compass]

[brittle siren]

Also this Xmas Roathe is enough

[strange plinth]

hmm. little hidden puzzles that you have to complete during the first 12 minutes to get a harder variant of the trauma manifestation
interesting

[brittle siren]

I hope DE stop doing this

[dark compass]

they nerfed persistence for this

its not over

[drifting narwhal]

Is this a thing?

[dark compass]

No, just an idea

[drifting narwhal]

Ohh my bad

[iron tiger]

So if the infestation is originally from like 1997

What is the stuff the look like blue trees on derelicts?

[strange plinth]

earliest time its been known

[brittle siren]

No it much further back

[fleet furnace]

i assume its another variation of the infestation

[strange plinth]

also infestation?

[iron tiger]

What strain

And why does it look like a plant so much

It’s unlike the other strains by a lot too

[brittle siren]

XX99 is much earlier iirc

[strange plinth]

its infesting, or attempting to infest, the arboriform in the derelicts
which is a plant thing

[brittle siren]

Mushroom too

[strange plinth]

afaik, the infestation isn't 100% confirmed to be there outside of the helminths that albrecht and roathe made

[brittle siren]

I heard that one of the Triad mentioned infested in their time, I could be wrong here too

[iron tiger]

Hmm, I mean I guess most of the infestation we see is composed of carrion and technology. We never really see infested plants. This is a good explanation

If xx99 already had infestation that’d be crazy. Arthur Morgan warframe would be possible

[hazy prism]

so does Entrati just have vials of helminth he's been using to make protos on him

like he brought "X" number of vials and has not replenished them

[humble sierra]

We don't know how many he has, or how many he's used

There could even be multiple ProtoExcaliburs running throughout time

[hazy prism]

I gues DE want's to leave that door open for now

[limber hull]

So after the new Quest and taking what we know.
Is the operator truly inmortal or how does that work?

[fast dew]

Nup. No operator is.

Though I wonder

What happens to our deal if we die?

[limber hull]

Can't wally just revive us?
After all he needs us

[waxen mesa]

I think wally has given up on us

[fast dew]

We did break the deal

[waxen mesa]

we keep breaking the deal

[fast dew]

But we are still useful, if what Roathe says about him is true

Acting as void conduits and all

[waxen mesa]

i am hesitant to trust Roathe

[fast dew]

Good, be hesitant.

[waxen mesa]

i think he's wrong about The Indifference being purely a CE product

[fast dew]

Hes worse than Albrecht's lies.

[dark compass]

WTF i just realized that narrator in bg3 and Eleanor share a voice actor. How did i not notice it sooner

[fast dew]

Eh, i fully think it is

[fast dew]

They're like. 1 to 1 wdym 😭

[dark compass]

YES

THEY ARE

Thats why i am so baffled

[waxen mesa]

i guess I can agree if you think the void and the indifference are the same thing

because I figure more that Albrecht taught the void how to think

[iron tiger]

Wait a minute if when we go into op mode using transference is just an astral projection or void ghost of ourselves then how did Ballas do what he did to us in the old war?

Trapping us within our own history

[pine orchid]

ever since Second Dream we are inside the warframes directly though

not just via Transference astral projection thing with the chair

sorry I mean War Within*

[hazy prism]

does this mean Post Old Peace, do the Tenno get put in somatic pods and won't leave until second dream quest?

like in old peace, we just interfact with the warframes directly, than some time between end of old peace and 2nd dream we're put in the somatic pods, is that directly after Old Peace with Margulis mind wiping us and sacrificing herself ?

[strange plinth]

directly after old peace, yes
she hides us away on lua, puts us in the second dream, and makes us forget
then she gets executed for it

[winged flume]

https://youtu.be/bpmTNFFRjdQ?si=ahhr8bvJu4ysoBPG

Happy Yule folks.

I need to get back into Warframe, perhaps Boxing Day.

I'm trying to clear up space due to my penchant of recording my play sessions.

[iron tiger]

If you think about it the operator experienced the third dream during the new war when being trapped in our history

[winged flume]

We're the fourth dream. Dreamers.

[iron tiger]

What would count as the fourth one?

[winged flume]

Our very, existence.

[iron tiger]

How so

Because of the Wally deal?

[winged flume]

We leave the game, and we do our real world stuff, but then we log back in, and dream a shared dream.

[iron tiger]

Oh my god your right

[brittle siren]

Nah real life is a dream too
And the real life of this real life is also a dream
And so on

Dream-ception

[winged flume]

And then we dream in the real world.

I'm annoyed I can't use my Star Trek Shitposting emotes here.

[proper barn]

Yes

We don't go into like

Deep cryo sleep until after the night of Naga drums.

@void zinc yiss?

[void zinc]

Anyone that's gotten far enough with Roathe know what to do with the 'anathema' impasse with him? I've already descended once. Is there a certain amount of times we're meant to do this before we can "unpause," or talk with him again? Or is this a wait-it-out situation?

[strange plinth]

i believe anathema means that you didn't get enough chemistry before you ran out of convos, so you're locked out until you reset
but i am not sure

[strange turtle]

Nah, Nelly says they’re us

When the Fragmented envoy appears

Neci Rusalka: [giggles] "My herald looked like you, once."

Neci Rusalka: "This is your future."

Neci Rusalka: "I have uses for dealbreakers."

Neci Rusalka: "How will I reassemble your pieces?"

[restive river]

I mean I still think this could refer to any humans he’s made a deal with, we know we weren’t the only one

[void zinc]

Interesting. It says we're close, and that I have to disobey his orders and descend to get out of said impasse, which I've done already. I'd have thought it would've stated if there were no other options.

[restive river]

We also know only two of us made it out and all the other versions of us wouldn’t have had an opportunity to break the deal cause
They died

[strange plinth]

tbh i only know that anathema from like a week ago when people were intentionally not gaining chemistry with him
its possible that it will solve for you after more descendia runs

[void zinc]

Got you. Will try that. Unfortunate that it's so vague, but I appreciate you for the advice.

[strange turtle]

Except he’s never made a deal with another that they know of other than Neci, who decidedly isn’t one, and the taunts have all been directed towards the Drifter and those they personally know

[woven coyote]

None of that says they are us tho

It says wally wants to make us like that, but not who the victims originally were

Looked like you is, imo, very far from were you

[strange turtle]

Ok

Anyone else who, “looks like us”, you can think of?

[lean garden]

any human

[strange turtle]

This isn’t some eldritch unknowable entity that can barely differentiate between humans

[lean garden]

two arms two legs a torso, perhaps a head

[humble sierra]

I think something says that the murmur was his attempt to make something more human, so maybe it's connected to that. Failed attempts or maybe he got bored and twisted them and whatnot

[strange turtle]

And then in the first place it relies on there being others who made a deal, broke it, got the consequences, and it just doesn’t come up that he’s been doing stuff with other people, and is instead randomly implied at the end of a boss fight and just not addressed

[lean garden]

but we know he's made deals with people who arent us before tho

we dont know anyone who's broken their deals sure

but we know we're not the only deal makers out there

[strange turtle]

And whenever he does that has been directly presented to us, and been actually relevant

[wind ruin]

Lotus may or may not be one of them.

[lean garden]

perhaps in its attempt to generate the human form, something that "looks like [us]", it got the murmur instead

intended vs actual outcome shit

[lean garden]

I still hold an impossibly large amount of skepticism for this

[wind ruin]

The only clue we have is that she has seen the Man in the Wall once.

[lean garden]

Which is like a nothingborgir, because yonta's also done that, and she's not made a deal

[wind ruin]

So... nothing for certain, thus "may or may not"

[lean garden]

And Albrecht's seen a ton of wally, still no deals either

[wind ruin]

Yonta is a conceptual embodiement. She may not be capable of making a deal.

[lean garden]

I mean, both yonta and us are void constructs

just different flavours of void constructs

[wind ruin]

And yeah, Albrecht definitely didn't make any deals. He was too busy acting like Dr. Frankenstein when his 'monster' awoke.

[strange plinth]

in her current state, yes
but iirc the line about her seeing wally could be about a memory of the previous Yonta or the current

[wind ruin]

Come to think of it, the entire metaplot of Warframe, around Wally and Albrecht... and Mary Shelley's Frankenstein... well.

[lean garden]

actually yea, it should have been the live yonta

[strange turtle]

Operator makes one to save the Tenno. It’s a big deal. We break it and he gets annoyed and emphasises it, even bigger deal.

Baro made one for cross-platform, we get told straight up. It’s a big deal

Neci made one and becomes his opening into 1999 and vessel, we get told straight up. It’s a big deal

Some random other guys make their own. It isn’t actually addressed at all and there’s nothing even relevant to it in the content drop or afterwards except for that the bosses are them

[lean garden]

because it was before the jump

[heady sapphire]

hey guys i have a question regarding the lore of recent quest
can any of yall explain me what the 7 is in simple words?
i think i forgot 🥀

[lean garden]

The Seven are seven executors who basically control the Orokin empire

[strange plinth]

the seven executors execute the will of the orokin emperors
(or do whatever the hell they want in absense of a specific will, apparently)

[lean garden]

ballas is one of them

[heady sapphire]

ohhh
are there any like, powerscales between them?

like, strong to weak sort of thing..
or are they all hold the same powers..

[woven coyote]

Just scheming immortal tirants

[hollow siren]

We have little info on most of them

Besides, when Orokin are just immortal most of them didn't really find a need to be directly physically capable

Tormis looked very muscled, but that could very well just be for appearance than actual functionality

[heady quest]

Legit just playing Game of Thrones until the white walkers (sentients) came

[strange turtle]

If you mean like, political power, we don’t really get any specifics, but according to Roathe Ballas was one of the more influential ones and had made himself a kind of “first among equals” who took care of disagreements and internal issues (not as like a formal role he had though)

[heady sapphire]

ohh
is it smth like space parliment?

[hollow siren]

more like non-democratic supreme court

ogliarchy more than anything else

[heady sapphire]

ohh
lol i think i get it now
thank you for help

[strange turtle]

Ballas - Warframe project guy, Margulis’ lover and Tenno hater. Killed by us/Lotus

Karishh - Guy who liked food so much he got 12 external stomachs hovering around him. Killed by a Grendel when he started eating all the food in a city with a famine.

Nitokh - Roathe’s former lover and lord. The main woman who wanted to continue the war against the Sentient’s and backed the Anarchs, also the one with a confirmed plan to kill the rest of the Orokin to take over because she was bored

Avantus - Tried to escape a Tower that got infested, betrayed by subordinate and killed by Grineer

Tuvul - Guy who ran the Zariman projects because he was impatient with the Sentients. Killed by a Voruna after trying to Continuity into the Tenno operating her

Scarne - the guy responsible for the Void Towers and the main guy of the members of the 7 who wanted peace with the Sentients

Tormis - We got nothing other than that he was the one to visit Tau before they attacked

[tacit mulch]

Hello tennos! Happy Holidays, i got a little confused about something related to the The Old Peace Lore. Everything on that quest is after the tenno makes the deal with Indiference and leaves the zariman/void, right?

[main crane]

Yes

It takes place during the middle of the Old War

[brittle siren]

Scarne sound like a nice guy /s

[crimson bobcat]

||what if this is true that Rothe is speaking that lotus is indeed being manipulated again||

[stray herald]

Im tryna navigate marie rank5 convo1 flowchart, i am so lost in so many options

[stray herald]

There is weight to his opinion. Since in lotus eaters, lotus herself already suggested that she will be targeted by wally, not to mention at the end of the kalymos sequence quest (i think?) where wally was plucking the petals of a lotus flower. Now adding to the fact that lotus’ voice was accompanied by wally’s voice saying “not yet” when operator was being dragged down into the waters the dark refractory in the old peace quest

[lean garden]

I dont think wally's voice was overlaid with the lotus's in that scene

like that statement is already heralding fragmentation of the (in my honest opinion, asinine) theory that the Lotus made a deal with wally

[civic forum]

Did the old peace ever give us any specifics of why uriel was “crucified” like that before we freed him?

[stray herald]

Nope

[lean garden]

its significantly closer to Albrecht's you are late than it is to anything else wally has ever done

wally does not have his own voice

and voidtongue has its own cadence

[stray herald]

What about the many times he has spoken? Like his first debut in the new war, his introduction in the start of the kalymos sequence where the sanctum map tore open

Unless there is a distinction between wally and ‘the great indifference’ location

[lean garden]

thats what I said

the voidtongue has its own cadence

wally has never spoken english in the voidtongue voice

[stray herald]

What do you mean cadence

[lean garden]

the monotone syllable by syllable

the only time we hear it in "english" is with albrecht

which means it aint wally

[stray herald]

And ‘not yet’?

[lean garden]

much closer to how albrecht did it

I swear if there comes a time where wally presses hard on lotus, all them folks are going to scream huzzah, as if wally hasnt taken time to break its victims down before moving to strike

[austere summit]

Keep in mind that as a sentient, she is particularly vulnerable to the void compared to everyone else too

[lean garden]

I'm breaking out the crackpot again

VOID BASED SENTIENT SENTIENCT RAAAAAAH

[thick yacht]

Yeah and she’s losing control of her circuits

[stiff beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/james-doakes-james-doakes-doakes-meme-doakes-suspicious-gif-7434634924845802139

[swift gyro]

can someone explain why the reason eudico is like that?

[stiff beacon]

All Solaris are like that

Like wdym

[pale cedar]

Protection

[humble sierra]

Unless you mean why she, specifically, is a redhead in which case that's probably because of genetics

[thick yacht]

How does that even work

Legit lost her head

[humble sierra]

The brain controls all internal organs necessary for survival. They replaced all their necessary organs with robotics

So the Head is the only thing they really need

And they keep that somewhere safe

[thick yacht]

Yet another reason why the Corpus are scumbags

This is life for the average person without the Empire

Seven above.

[swift gyro]

but why they decided to be like this? or it was just bcs ´´cool´´?

[thick yacht]

Because Nef Anyo is a slave driver and puts the Solaris into debt slavery where they are forced to sell or lose their organs if they don’t meet quotas

So they end up putting their heads in their chests because the rest of what would be their organs is robotics

TLDR: Nef is a scumbag

[swift gyro]

Dang, heavy back story. DE gotta make us kill that guy,revive and kill it again.

[wintry dust]

I'm not sure I fully understood the story of the new journey.

[lean garden]

"average person"

• Sample size taken from a Corpus Debt colony

its like going to a war torn region and saying, oh the people are malnourished here, everyone else must be malnourished too!

The Empire, as I somehow have to reiterate again and again, had to go systemically

[thick yacht]

Whatever your views on it may be, it was better for the average civilian than the situation they are in now

[lean garden]

hell no? Ask baro how it was like on his colony

how the skymen came and took whoever they wanted

they needed a whole rogue warframe to be kept safe

[thick yacht]

The GRINEER killed his family

Not the Orokin.

[lean garden]

the GRINEER arent the skymen

[thick yacht]

I dont know how old you think Baro is but he is not old enough to have lived under anything but Grineer rule

[lean garden]

Baro's Mother: "Long ago, the lands of our colony were cursed, they were soaked in fear. The Golden Skymen would come and take our children away. Young and old alike, cowered before them, afraid to lose their most beloved."

[thick yacht]

Also mars was under the rule of Ballas, are we supposed to be surprised

It’s Ballas

[lean garden]

And as we are told by roathe

orokin taking bodies became the norm

you cannot argue that life was better under the empire for the average joe when the only samples we have of life under the empire, are absolutely horrible shit

like if there was an example of a colony where life was not shit for anyone who's skin wasnt shy of a blueberry sure, but we dont have that

[thick yacht]

Because there is not enough lore yet. As I said, I give the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. There are 9 planets in the solar system in addition to all of the various moons, there has to be at least one example of a decent colony under Orokin rule

I don’t extend the same to the Grineer and Corpus because we SEE in real time what they do

[lean garden]

but as it stands, there isnt, you cannot argue for the decency of the orokin while standing on hypotheticals

you can only go "what if there was"

you cannot argue that life was certainly better under the empire, while there is no evidence of such

[glacial pendant]

"We end as we begin" at the end of Whispers
And during the Zariman section of the Hex quest

[lean garden]

you can hope maybe even speculate but you cannot definitively state

[lean garden]

isnt that albrechts voice?

so like, back to what I said

[glacial pendant]

You can hear the same Voidtongue voice over Albrecht's voice. And during the Zariman section he uses that voice over Rusalka's voice but speaks directly to you as Wally

[lean garden]

hmm

that is true

regardless, its not an effect held only by wally

[humble sierra]

Yeah it's just a filter

It's also appears in the New War's deal scene "I can save them. All of them. But you have to WANT IT"

[stiff beacon]

Ayo hold up there are 8 Pluto isn't a planet

[thick yacht]

Pluto is a planet

[stiff beacon]

No it aint its a dwarf planet there's a difference

[strange turtle]

It’s not that it was necessarily under his rule, he just lived and worked there

[glass flume]

lore-wise, what is deep/temporal archimedea?

[lean garden]

temporal is you working with kaya to fix the timeline because looping that much causes damage

[strange turtle]

Also Teshins whole quote about the Yuvan Theatres

[modern mulch]

In the new war quest, how much time had passed between ballas kicking the operator into the void and drifters appearance?

[lean garden]

deep is you running experiments against the murmur iirc

[lean garden]

unknown, some theorise only a few months

[strange turtle]

Also also the fact that one of the Zariman tablets shows that kids getting taught they could just get picked for Continuity was normal

[lean garden]

which one was that again?

[strange turtle]

17. How should you prepare for Continuity, if chosen?

A. Exercise, bathe, and keep my body pure (correct)

B. This is too unlikely to be worth considering

[lean garden]

yeesh

[glass flume]

correct me if im wrong but the helminth is the thing that allowed albrecht to go back in time. if there was no helminth in xx99, how did albrecht go there, let alone be able to drag roathe?

[stiff beacon]

Also according to roathe continuity was used on the battlefield

[lean garden]

helminth let us go back

apparently albrecht had a whole timemachine

of which if you recall, he had loid smash

[stiff beacon]

Nah he had his own thing

[strange turtle]

Remember the coffin looking thing he got into at the start of Whispers in the Walls?

[stiff beacon]

It was that coffin loid smashed in the beginning of witw

[glass flume]

ohhh i see. thanks!

[strange turtle]

There’s also

6. What should one never do at a Serving of the Bitter Tea?
   A. Break silence (correct)

B. Flinch, no matter how severe the pain

12. What is your first priority if you are exposed to the Void?
    A. Request the duty cephalon to seal off your environs (correct)

B. Call the Lorists, then immolate yourself at a thermo-cubicle

[proper barn]

No

[thick yacht]

Yes.

[proper barn]

Why do you want

Pluto to be a planet?

Also if Pluto was a planet we would have to like put at least 3 more other rocks as planets?

@thick yacht this sounds like when you do something a doctor tells you not to do.

[thick yacht]

ok?

[proper barn]

You're wrong. Lmao. Wait I actually have something for this. Can I dm you? It's a song.

[thick yacht]

I don’t care what NASA thinks of the situation

NASA is a joke of an organization

Can’t even send people to the nearest celestial body

[proper barn]

i mean it's world wide sciencists

and stuff.

[thick yacht]

Pluto was widely considered a planet until 2006 and it’s reclassification makes no sense.

[proper barn]

it makes sense.

you just don't understand.

"why is Lead bad now" post

[thick yacht]

Are you trying to bait me or is your head just empty

I think you should cease saying this nonsense

[proper barn]

okay

do you think sciencists can learn new stuff?

and thus change their opinon and what we know?

[thick yacht]

See, I would perhaps be willing to listen to your condescending comments if you were able to spell, but your lack of mastery of language puts me in doubt as to your ability to prove to me that a massive celestial body like Pluto is somehow not a planet, in ADDITION to the condescending nature thus described.

[proper barn]

cuz your argument is one of stagnation and like "return to tradition" about something that is constantly changing and evolving.

also i have dyselxia like what do you want me to do?

[tall echo]

Vinny be dylexic

Sudden silence, guessing busy

[thick yacht]

I am opening gifts

[tall echo]

So I guessed correctly

[lean garden]

Why doesnt it?

Other dwarf planets were discovered, and pluto's orbit is affected by objects entering it path

which was the one criteria that made pluto into a dwarf instead of just a planet

[thick yacht]

That’s called gravity

Objects pull other objects toward each other

[lean garden]

yea and pluto's is not dominant in its region

which is why it failed the last criteria

[thick yacht]

You are banished to the Yuvarium I say

[lean garden]

The orokin will find their empire in ruins before a drop of kuva exists in my presence

[thick yacht]

To the Empire

[lilac aspen]

Daily reminder Pluto didn’t even complete a full rotation around the orbit when we discovered it as a planet (1930) and then declassified it (2006)

It will be 2178 by the time it finally does complete that rotation

It is no longer planet because it doesn’t follow the third rule of planets

It doesn’t clear its orbital neighborhood

It has debris all around its pathway

But it’s called a dwarf planet because it still

1. Orbits the sun
2. R o u n d

Basically
Uhhh

Rule 3 is like an expansion of rule 2
As a round planet is because it has enough mass for its gravity to sphere it
But the planet needs even more gravity to either absorb or kick away debris in its path, which Pluto cannot.

[thick yacht]

Pluto is extremely far away

It’s going to take longer than it does earth or mars

[lilac aspen]

Hence why it is not a Planet, but it is still called a Dwarf Planet, for it meets two of the three criteria, but is simply “too small” for rule 3 to work

TLDR
“We grant you the title of planet but also of dwarf.”
“This is not fair!”
“Take a seat, Pluto.”

NASA had to add this change because overtime we began to ask

“Now hold on, why do we call these planets ‘dwarf planets’ again? Okay but doesn’t Pluto meet the same criteria?”

[burnt blade]

Ok I got a question about a warframe

[lilac aspen]

Answer

[burnt blade]

So If warframes are people injected with the infested stran to be turned into a frame, and xaku is made up of 3 different frames then how was xaku made?

[lean garden]

smush em togetehr

and then you take the result, and blam, you can make more

its like if you custom made a car from a kitbash assortment of car parts

and then someone comes along and decides to make your kitbashed car an actual production

[lilac aspen]

Take all three frame samples
Blend them together in the Entrati blender 9000
And inject it into someone
Hope they don’t explode

[burnt blade]

Does that mean xaku is frankensteined

[lean garden]

in a sense?

[drowsy saddle]

There were 3 warframes, all in service to the Entrati, some void experiment went wrong and the 3 frames got blendered into Xaku

[burnt blade]

👀 where the heck can I find that out?

[drowsy saddle]

Iirc Grandmother says so

[burnt blade]

Oh

[drowsy saddle]

As for why we can build Xaku the way they are now, well eternalism and infestation shenanigananery

[lean garden]

I dont think theres any eternalism involved

[drowsy saddle]

Remember that Salad V tortured Valkyr so badly she retroactively changed how her strain worked

[lean garden]

and the infestation shenaniganery isnt so bad

[lean garden]

eh, I dont think thats the case

[burnt blade]

Salad V 🤣

[lean garden]

Salad V stripped the kitty, but the kitty was always a spicy one

[burnt blade]

He looks like he needs a salad

[drowsy saddle]

Mans looks like he hasn't felt the warmth of Sol in decades

[lean garden]

if anything salad made the kitty more mad, but she was always going to be mad

[burnt blade]

🤣

If he ever went to a beach, he would probably go looking for gold on it, when he's supposed to be getting tanned, lmfao

[normal mountain]

He'd experiment on the crabs, trying to turn them into gold

[lilac aspen]

He’d make robots based on the Crabs

“Tenno, behold my Crabuka Project.”

[normal mountain]

On that note, why don't we have robot crabs?

That'd be cool

[lilac aspen]

Too powerful

We all know crabs are the true final stage of evolution

They’re so powerful that we don’t have a Crab frame yet because the infestation cannot achieve such powerful might, yet

[normal mountain]

Either that, or it's because crab is too close to lobster and we already have a lobster frame

[iron tiger]

We do?

[unkempt nebula]

newish tenno here! got a question is the void (or whats in it) a reference to H:P lovecrafts cthulhu mythos? random ahh question but im assuming that whatever the man in the wall is, he aint a man (i have not done new war yet only everything before hand)

[normal mountain]

Sort of a community joke, but Trinity bears a distinct resemblance to 🦞

[iron tiger]

The man in the wall isn’t an outer god, while he is powerful his abilities are constrained and his physical form wasn’t made until albrecht entrati conceptually embodied his form. Before that the void was empty but if I remember correctly the man in the wall was still conscious in the empty void

He is best described as void entity

[lilac aspen]

Wally is weird

[unkempt nebula]

''the man in the wall was still conscious in the empty void'' thats a bit spooky, also why does that jerk randomly jumpscare me

[lilac aspen]

Because funny

[unkempt nebula]

i did the whole quest at like 2 am, it was not f u n per say

very good story tho!

[iron tiger]

Which quest did you do?

[unkempt nebula]

chains of harrow

[strange turtle]

They’re saving them for Tau’s greatest bosses and enemies

[iron tiger]

Hahahaha that one was scary

[unkempt nebula]

thank god im with new loka and not the red viel

is it veil?

[iron tiger]

Yes

[normal mountain]

Hmm
Crab Archon...

[strange turtle]

Almost. The conceptual embodiment bit is still a theory, it’s not confirmed, with DE leaning into the mystery of it even more now

[unkempt nebula]

are there like any story based videos going into deep dives of the void and the man in wall?

im very interested by this topic! even if its 4.30 am

[iron tiger]

The community normally gathers around StallordD for lore

[silk atlas]

Ew no we don't.

[iron tiger]

A lot of people do

[lilac aspen]

Purple shard clearly
For that crit melee damage with those claws

[iron tiger]

Maybe not in here but the vast majority of Tenno do

[unkempt nebula]

i will check him out!

[normal mountain]

As far as I'm aware, none
More often than not, videos get filled with misunderstandings and straight headcanons
That are then presented as fact

[silk atlas]

I can't remember which loretuber that is but ever since that almost 6 hour video getting a tone of stuff wrong I'm weary on expecting anyone to get stuff right

[unkempt nebula]

zam that sucks a bloody lot mate

[silk atlas]

I know that one wasn't StallorD

[lilac aspen]

“But but but Eternalism!”

“Eternalism this gun out of my hand then,”

[iron tiger]

Socratetris

[normal mountain]

And his attacks deal Cold
Because Boreal took Electric

[unkempt nebula]

i will check em out as well!

[iron tiger]

Also yes we probably will fight several hunhows in tau plus the worms we’ve heard of

Hunhow is litterally the size of like 13 railjacks too

[normal mountain]

My version: "Eternalism this arrow out of your head then."

[lilac aspen]

Hunhow must show up and help us

He must reveal how powerful his farmer body is by picking up a sentient and throwing them like the bales of hay he moved

[strange turtle]

The one who managed to get Lorists, who are barely present and very straightforward, wrong somehow?

[normal mountain]

We'd need to get him out of Uranus first
But I agree, yes
Hunhow should come with us to Tau

[silk atlas]

The one who managed to confused Lotus and Margulis, yes

[lilac aspen]

We should give him some of the Tower Kuva

[iron tiger]

Noooooooo this is actually a sin

[normal mountain]

Buddy
We still need to get to him first

[lilac aspen]

“Grandpa, here’s your vitamin supplements.”

”I AM THE FARMER OF FARMERS!”

[normal mountain]

He got buried under several tons of rock and stuff back in Natah

[lilac aspen]

Convince stalker to help us dig

[normal mountain]

Stalker has child now
But maybe

Maybe he'd send Acolytes to help us instead

[lilac aspen]

Three warframes (Umbra, Stalker, Us using another) shoveling will be faster than one

[normal mountain]

Then maybe we'd get some proper Acolyte lore

[iron tiger]

Steve said he wanted a secret acolyte syndicate, but Rebeca is now the creative lead so who knows if we’ll ever get that

[dark compass]

Dark souls invasions

[ashen pulsar]

remember we can just recruit an army of tenno to do it

[waxen mesa]

Invasions would suck unless the invader was rewarded for doing enough damage vs failing the mission

[sly pagoda]

I am guessing most of the community would not want DS style invasions.

or would never toggle that option on if it existed.

[restive river]

I’m assuming you’re referring to the scrapped stalker mode

[golden raptor]

was the jade that we were taking care of in jade shadows the original one? Who was taking control of it? Or was it like an umbra situation?

[restive river]

Yes
She calmed her Operator and didn’t need one
Not an Umbra situation, just a first gen frame

[strange plinth]

-# more detail in the memory feathers next to teshin in any relay

[restive river]

First gen were sapient but typically would go feral unless they had strong emotions keeping them sane (Kullervo, Jade, Stalker)
Second gen were piloted by tenno and were basically brain dead
Umbra was one of if not the last second gen frames made and utilizes a special bolt, constantly reliving one memory (similar instance of strong emotions keeping them more sane), he ofc did not have an Operator until us

[golden raptor]

so... a future jade prime wouldn't be the original?

would the jade prime still be pregnant 🤔

[restive river]

No, the original died and we made a perfect copy of her as we do with every other frame
I hypothesize that the one we make isn’t sapient due to the foundry possibly installing a typical transference bolt, hindering their sapience but that is unproven

[restive river]

Good question, probably yes though

I’m unsure but there could have been a Jade before. Well Jade
But it could just be they took her strain and improved upon it, and part of Ballas’ design was the unborn child so the infestation may replicate that

[golden raptor]

...so the baby would also be a prime? Would the prime baby also be like... A sibling to the baby that the stalker is taking care of?

[restive river]

Maybe and maybe
Issue is, the baby can only grow if Jade stays near completely still for well over a thousand years

[golden raptor]

How did Stalker become a Warframe? Or was he always one? Also, I assume the Chroma bossfight in that one quest is also a first gen frame?

[restive river]

Did you play Jade Shadows? That’s what its about lol

[golden raptor]

I did but have poor comprehension lmao

[strange plinth]

Jade: "You're going to be a father, Sorren."
Sorren: "But... the Legems! If the Lords found out-"
they were both turned into frames as punishment for their relationship

[strange turtle]

The Stalker had seeing Jade and the child (who he didn’t know had also been framed and development slowed) as his whole motivation and drive

And then the Night of the Naga Drums happened and he lost that

Cue roughly a thousand years later, the Tenno are coming back and causing trouble again, so Stalker, now seemingly without much memory of his life and family as Sorren, falls back on what were probably his previous duties and ideals as the reason for not liking us

[restive river]

More for having a baby but yeah

[limber finch]

I was thinking something about jade lately, what if, jade was margulis friend, ballas made her to be an executor of her own friend, i finished the quests lately but this came to my mind, what if jade protected margulis soul on her now baby? is it possible?

[strange plinth]

jade nor margulis ever mention each other
so i'd say that's pretty unlikely

[daring flare]

During the final scene of jade's quest when stalker picks up the baby to become protector stalker. Did he get the buff from jade or the baby?

[limber finch]

hum, but they are in the same era if im not wrong

[strange plinth]

its jade's essence, i believe
same motes that parvos wanted to harvest for the jade eximus project

[pale cedar]

Orokin era lasted a while so that doesn’t really say much

[daring flare]

alr I'll take your word for it. Makes the most sense anyway. ty

[limber finch]

maybe the now dont mention each other because is lotus(natah) not the Real Margulis

we never talked to the real margulis

[pale cedar]

We literally did speak to the real Margulis many times

[strange plinth]

lotus is still aware of margulis's life, though, including her execution via jade light. "I will not let It devour one instant of my pain. Not even Ballas. Not even the Jade Light."
the jade light was given to jade, and she became an additional executioner. they're mostly separate concepts

[ashen pulsar]

most recent evidence of which being at the end of old peace

[pale cedar]

Even prior to that there’s the she spoke to us quote from TSD

[ashen pulsar]

yeah obviously

[pale cedar]

Players truly be not paying attention to the story

[ashen pulsar]

i’m just saying that’s a ridiculous thing to say when the most recent quest literally ends with us speaking to her

[limber finch]

i mean speaking in a lot of details not just memories

[pale cedar]

Memories of actual events

[limber finch]

memories is not the REAL thing, that's why maybe that it never mentioned anything

[ashen pulsar]

were we a significant person among the tenno? we created them, did we ever lead them or have a significant position among them?

[limber finch]

but i sayd the never in that context

not that we never seen her talk or anything

[pale cedar]

She was literally our adoptive mother why wouldn’t your adoptive mother speak to you at all that’s not common sense at all

[ashen pulsar]

she was the adoptive mother of thousands of children tbf

there’s no way she talked with all of them that much

[pale cedar]

She probably found a way to get around

[strange plinth]

i think jade's memory feathers would at least allude to killing margulis if she was the one to do so

[tall echo]

No

[ashen pulsar]

yeah there’s like no evidence of that

correlation ≠ causation

[strange turtle]

@fast dew

(Locate the eyes of Indifference) Neci Rusalka: "Tired of your human body? Want me to reshape it?"

Another

[wind ruin]

Here's a fun thing that occurred to me; Ivara's Leverian. Roathe. Executor Nitokh. And an Ascaris Prime.

[restive river]

Omg Wally can give me gender affirming care?! /j

[strange plinth]

you're
going to need to elaborate a little on that one

[wind ruin]

It almost explains itself when you go through Ivara's Leverian. And realize that Roathe is a warframe with an Orokin face.

[hollow siren]

Roathe is not a Warframe. Uriel is

[restive river]

Ok no
Elaborate further, don’t just say it explains itself.

[restive river]

I mean he technically is, just an incomplete one

[strange plinth]

idk if you're trying to imply that roathe is the myrmidon or something
but roathe gets half-framed long after the ivara leverian would've taken place

[restive river]

I’m assuming they’re maybe referring to the myrmidon
Which
No that’s not Roathe, those were just jade light weapons

[restive river]

We are on the same page so much omg

[strange plinth]

yea lol

[restive river]

Great minds n all that lol

[wind ruin]

"There he stood: the Myrmidon. Slayer of Warframes. Naked. Beauty, symmetry, even the capacity for language, sacrificed for... raw power. But his face... his face was the mockery of an Orokin face: those she was sworn to never kill. The smirk on his pallid, angular visage told her he knew it as well."

"One of the Seven leaned forward, removing a curious thing from their slender head, a lattice of delicate silver, placing it on the elevated, chest-high curve of obsidian that separated her from them. Instantly the Myrmidon collapsed, lifeless, to the floor"

[hollow siren]

"the mockery of an Orokin face" means it was something artificial made to look like an Orokin face

[wind ruin]

"'The Secret History' tells us that the Myrmidon appeared boldly before the three, in a wide chamber connected by many tunnels. Clad in red-and-gold armor it gestured to the first Warframe with what Porvis describes as 'a strange clutching motion, as if seizing a falling apple'"

[restive river]

The Myrmidon is not Roathe

He even speaks about them in a vm iirc

The timeline also just does not work at all for Roathe being it, if he even could be which he isn’t

Speaking of the myrmidons I hope we see them at some point in game, they sound like fantastic enemies and or boss fights

[strange plinth]

ignoring the timeline discrepancy for a moment, roathe's armor is also being subsumed into him
can't clip it off to be "naked" like what happens to the myrmidon in the leverian

[strange plinth]

it would be cool, though they'd have to be nerfed. don't think 'insta-kill laser lmao' would go over very well

[iron tiger]

Myrmidon needs an appearance soon

[hollow siren]

Uriel is just sorta subsuming his armor and clothing with no regard for incorporating it into the mutation (which is fitting, cause like, it's Uriel)

[restive river]

It could work in a story quest but for actual gameplay? Yeahh, def needs a touch up
Though if they just shoot jade light beams they can just use what we already have, just directional and not just vertical lol

[strange plinth]

true, either of those would work

[restive river]

*Roathe
But yeah the helminth serum is taking all of that old body of his

[hollow siren]

I'm talking about the Uriel mutation just fully consuming Roathe's armor

"his" is Roathe

[restive river]

Oooh yes yes lol

Bro gettin consumed

[hollow siren]

yeah it's not like his armor is being twisted into a Uriel-esque shape, Uriel is just eating it up and going "no, only me"

I kinda love how much everyone seems to just hate Uriel, and that Uriel seems to reciprocate it

[restive river]

A friend of mine made art of him that looked like a what if it progressed further (which ofc it will)

[restive river]

I love Uriel
I have mixed feelings on Roache

[strange turtle]

Maybe Necramech vs Myrmidon?

[hollow siren]

Roathe is cool, I love a guard dog x master toxic dynamic

[hollow siren]

Myrmidon is Arquebex Prime

[strange plinth]

oo that would also be cool
maybe that's where the exalted necramech frame is,,

[thick yacht]

To the Empire

[hollow siren]

https://tenor.com/view/hl2-hl3-half-life-3-hopium-hope-gif-7246120153840726923

[thick yacht]

[restive river]

Lmao

[hollow siren]

I'm not huge on personally using the protoframe skins tho, but I wish I could have Roathe's armor with Uriel

[thick yacht]

My drifter will single-handedly fight to deliver Roathe back his Empire

[restive river]

Why

[thick yacht]

She is down bad for him

[restive river]

So he can kill everyone in charge and become a corrupt leader lol

[hollow siren]

worth it for hot evil bestial boyfriend

[restive river]

Nah
Perpetuating the empire, which was a major part of the problem, should not be done

[thick yacht]

If he told her to kill Loid she’d think about it for like 2 seconds and then probably do it

[tall echo]

cringe

[thick yacht]

[strange plinth]

i feel like you've intentionally missed 80% of roathe's characterization

[thick yacht]

She just likes a pretty face

Bro can yap about whatever he wants

Ballas was cute too, but he was too crazy so it just got off putting tbh

[tall echo]

so you are ignoring roach talking about how much the orokin deserved what the tenno did

[thick yacht]

We are only worried about the face card here sir

But no I’m not

Also speaking of Orokin

Why is corpus and Grineer architecture so ugly

🗿

[strange turtle]

I mean I wouldn’t say Corpus is ugly

[tall echo]

because it's made to be practical

[strange turtle]

Largely bland maybe, but it’s not like it’s far from a typical space sci-fi aesthetic for the most part

[thick yacht]

[thick yacht]

Tbh i think aesthetics is a part of that

[strange turtle]

[thick yacht]

If it’s ugly it doesn’t do good for morale

[tall echo]

no

[thick yacht]

Fight for beauty

[thick yacht]

🗿

[tall echo]

aesthetics is objectively the opposite of practicality

[strange plinth]

that's the point lmao
crush the spirit entirely and they won't fight against you

[dark compass]

you could say its... corporate

[tall echo]

nah, the crewmen can still find places to sit

[thick yacht]

🗿

[thick yacht]

🗿

[restive river]

OH NO
An opinion!

[strange plinth]

ok 👍

[thick yacht]

Every time I give my opinions like 5 of you people come after me so…

[tall echo]

a contrasting one at that

[restive river]

Cause your opinions consist of basically saying the Orokin did nothing wrong, that’s not an opinion that’s just incorrect

[tall echo]

because your opinions are scorching takes

[dark compass]

dont they just attach themselves to walls

there are lots of places to rest on, i havent seen any benches though

[strange turtle]

The Grineer do have an aesthetic

Unfortunately that aesthetic is spartan and brutalist industrial vibe with a side of lots of grease, various forms of pollution and cheap, mass-churned out materials/components

[tall echo]

they sit on boxes sometimes

[restive river]

You clearly also do ignore the point of Roathe’s story considering your ideals don’t match with what he tells you lmao

[thick yacht]

I never said the Orokin did nothing wrong, I just like the Orokin

[tall echo]

just like the grineer themselves

[restive river]

You think they’re undeserving of what befell them
Which they
Absolutely deserved it

[stiff beacon]

futuristic diesel/chem punk

[dark compass]

dont think we need anti homeless crates

[restive river]

When a member of that exact society is even saying it I feel you miss the point.

[strange turtle]

Don’t give Nef any(o) ideas

[thick yacht]

Well clearly neither of us are ever going to change our minds on it so it’s not really conducive to keep going on, is it. We are entitled to our views

[strange plinth]

clearly

[restive river]

You think the child murdering war crime committing tyrants don’t deserve death

[tall echo]

your view is actively opposing roach's

[dark compass]

i am so hungry i could eat an orokin

[thick yacht]

For the last time I don’t think the entirety of the Orokin deserve death correct

I will stand on this hill

[strange plinth]

yea

[restive river]

Grendel has entered the chat

[restive river]

When they all killed children to live longer, yeah no they do

[stiff beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/grendel-grendal-prime-warframe-orange-creamsicle-hello-chat-gif-8335281156347721127

[restive river]

Let alone the countless other crimes they committed

With a complete lack of any evidence of a good Orokin existing

[strange turtle]

Except you have no base for it, other than Roathe’s own cope during his grapple with morality and the fact that they were better at one point and surely can’t all be so bad

[tall echo]

I don't mean this as an insult, you are on track of being the world's first manipulative bottom

[restive river]

When even Roathe is saying they deserved it and worse I’m fairly certain you’re missing the point

[thick yacht]

Well until enough lore is released to conclusively show the entire Orokin society and Empire as being unworthy of redemption, I won’t advocate for their deaths. You all can, that’s your prerogative, but I won’t

[dark compass]

i thought the word for that is "class traitor"

[tall echo]

...they started a war. because they were bored.

[stiff beacon]

the devils advocate is strong with this one

[strange turtle]

Yes, some of them could have changed, but this was a rot that went down to the very roots of their society and culture. No matter how many were preserved, there’d still be some degree of the conflict that happened

[tall echo]

incorrect usage of the term, actually! ☝️ 🤓

[restive river]

Is murdering children for purely selfish reasons not enough???

[strange turtle]

Then you will advocate for that until the day the servers close down, because we are never going to get that

[stiff beacon]

well yea im not talking about roathe

[tall echo]

devil's advocate roughly means representing views that you are opposed to in order to form a better opinion

[restive river]

Clearly some Orokin are capable of redemption, once entirely separated from the toxic empire, culture and system they themsevles built

[thick yacht]

So… I don’t mean this in a rude way, but like if you couldn’t convince me by trying to cite pieces of lore, you’ll do even less by calling me names.

[tall echo]

I'm not. I thought I clarified that

[restive river]

If we can’t convince you by citing lore then the game won’t ever convince you.

[dark compass]

wait should we not eat the rich?

[sudden shard]

are marie and loathe from like 1999 or smth like that and entrati just asked them to not make roathe lonley

[restive river]

The game makes it very obvious how terrible the empire and the Orokin were, now more than ever with Roache

[forest lagoon]

Some people are afraid of the reading comprehension devil

[restive river]

Marie and Lyon are from xx99 (likely 1899)
Roathe is from the Origin System before the collapse

[strange plinth]

marie and lyon are from XX99, roathe was dropped there
they'll talk more about this in their chats

[restive river]

Roathe?!?

[restive river]

We should and I will
Grendel did it RIGHT with Karrish

[strange plinth]

actually hold on this situation makes roathe's "reading comprehension these days" so much funnier

[dark compass]

judging by people building Uriel with summoner's wrath - yes

[restive river]

Why did we get sentient bones I want orokin bones smh

[forest lagoon]

Chainsawman

[drowsy ether]

I'd think the civilization whose definition of immortality is to transfer consciousness into children should go the way of the dodo, but what can I say

[iron tiger]

Some orokin were better than others. The ceremony was culturally normalized into being an act of self preservation. I think some orokin would be kind, nice or respectful outside of that. But the desensitized nature of the yuvan theater sort of makes it hard to call them pure or selfless

[strange turtle]

The Orokin are not in the present game. The Orokin are not in the future of the game. The Orokin are the game’s background, from the past.

We are never going to get an entire conclusive view of the entirety of Orokin society with all it’s strata and flaws and whatever redeeming qualities there might be because the Orokin are a setpiece or a driving force for the plot. The setting itself has moved on from them and aside from points like Old Peace where we get an actual significant flashback we are never going to get all that much in-depth detail, because DE aren’t the kind of devs to have big, sweeping lore tabs that paint the past of the world and all it’s minutiae to such an extensive degree

[sudden shard]

so like pre perita or just pre warframe killing every orokin

[restive river]

I believe post perita and def pre night of the naga drums

I believe his chats paint a good picture if you ask him about it

[thick yacht]

Well you specifically can’t convince me because I’m pretty sure we disagree on matters far deeper than just lore judging by how you seem to view people who are wealthy based on prior statements

[tall echo]

...except "you're welcome"?

[strange turtle]

It’s not even about them being “unworthy of redemption”. The issue is caste-wide redemption is an entirely unfeasible concept to begin with in the actual circumstances of the setting

[thick yacht]

How am I class traitor lol?

[dark compass]

It was a joke, it wasn't really aimed at you

[strange plinth]

there's a pretty big difference between standard wealth and the wealth that she keeps comparing to the orokin

[dark compass]

I barely participate in this convo, I'm not mentally stable enough for this

[restive river]

Oh no
I hate billionaires!
???

[strange turtle]

Of course it’d be better for them to not die and become better people instead, but to do that on any remotely significant scale isn’t a realistic expectation at that point in general, let alone the specific circumstances and upbringing of all the involved characters

[dark compass]

But I do also think orokin deserved what they got, regardless if they were capable of redemption or not. Remorse won't make up for a system they upheld

Unless they took action

It was too late though, for any of them

As far as we know at least

[thick yacht]

Ok? You can be a billionaire that doesn’t mean you deserve death lmao

[restive river]

No such thing as a good billionaire but okay

[thick yacht]

If someone is rich so be it

[dark compass]

I want to say something funny but I don't think I will

[thick yacht]

Not even true

[dark compass]

Okay now I want to say something not very funny but I also won't

[restive river]

You don’t have that much money being kind

[thick yacht]

The world is not kind

[restive river]

I won’t bring the real world into this but think of the first billionaire you can think of

[dark compass]

You'd think of some fringe case of a "noble descendant of an orokin who can see beside the system they were born in"

No, nope. Someone just hijacked that child.

[restive river]

Doesn’t mean you have to be awful lol

[iron tiger]

Oprah Winfrey

[restive river]

Idk enough about her to really say
But I thought of two specific ones who are exclusively terrible

[humble sierra]

You could be a good person, but ultimately the money is likely sourced from suffering

[forest lagoon]

There’s a difference between people who are wealthy and the 1%

Know the difference

[restive river]

Yes exactly this thank you

[tall echo]

actually, empathy is the default in most even slightly intelligent species

[forest lagoon]

^^^

[tall echo]

the people trying to make you think greed and cruelty is normal are the exceptions

[forest lagoon]

And the problems

[thick yacht]

Without going into specifics, my family (specifically my parents) would be considered in the 1% of earners in my country, that doesn’t make them bad, nor does it make me bad for being their child. My parents are loving, caring, and kind.

[forest lagoon]

I figured

[thick yacht]

But I don’t want to go too much into the real world.

[dark compass]

Oh that's why you're saying what you are saying

[drowsy ether]

That explains a lot.

[forest lagoon]

No it doesn’t make you bad to be a rich persons child, what does make someone a bad person is excusing a class of people who partake in genocide, casual child killings and war crimes

[dark compass]

Back to the basement I go, this conversation is kinda over for me lol

[thick yacht]

Yes, because I know both sides. I understand why people don’t like certain people who are wealthy, but not all wealthy people are like that

Just like not all Orokin are monsters like Ballas

[dark compass]

Yeah, some of them are worse

[drowsy ether]

Just most of them.

[dark compass]

[forest lagoon]

When a class of people call themselves “golden gods” they lose all sense of moral innocence and ambiguity

[iron tiger]

There are several types of goodness virtues: Selflessness, kindness, niceness, respect and friendliness you can have some without the others and still be a good person. But the orokin have really only been seen being respectful not any of the others

I’m probably missing some things but you get the idea

[thick yacht]

Also I never said the Orokin are like these morally innocent babies

I just don’t think they deserved death. Big difference

[humble sierra]

We don't have too many stories of the Orokin helping people besides to claim their territories or assert themselves

[dark compass]

The system deserved death

They were the system, they made themselves the system

They replaced the primary religion with themselves

[humble sierra]

I'd agree but the very existence of Continuity is super messed up, and every Orokin partook in that

[tall echo]

they had opportunities to not be evil, they othered people who take the opportunity

[drowsy ether]

Like Karishh and his absurd feasts.
Like Corphel and Irilia and their treatment of the Dax who became Dagath.
Like Nihil and his interesting approach to enforcing the law.
Like Tuvul and his Yuvan Clerisy.
Like the entirety of the Yuvan Clerisy, in fact.

[thick yacht]

You can change the system without pulling an Order 66 on the Orokin. Hell it probably went down the same way as it: Natah giving an order to all Tenno and then the brutality and violence ensued

Tens if not hundreds of thousands wiped out in an instant.

[strange turtle]

Except you can’t actually

[tall echo]

only up to a certain point

[dark compass]

But they have ingrained themselves into the system, they were considered literal gods

[humble sierra]

Continuity had to be shut down

[dark compass]

"Release the Tuvul files" or something

[humble sierra]

It was a messed up practice that they glorified

[forest lagoon]

Tuvul files

[strange turtle]

Even aside from all the messed up stuff this is a culture rooted in vanity, the idea of a tiered society and the unquestionability of their own superiority

[tall echo]

oh and fyi, your beloved roathe does think the orokin deserved death

[dark compass]

Your variant is better I have edited the message please let me have it

[drowsy ether]

Not when the Orokin (the higher, blue-skinned ruling classes) elevated themselves to the level of gods and could live forever by erasing the minds of people to live anew in their bodies.

[forest lagoon]

Of course bookie

[tall echo]

same with kermerros

[thick yacht]

I agree.

[humble sierra]

Hehehe it looks so funny pixelated

[tall echo]

when multiple of the better orokin say the orokin deserved death I think they might have a point

[thick yacht]

Continuity is something I can’t agree with

Well, at least not continuity into innocent children

I don’t mind continuity into like clone bodies or whatever

[forest lagoon]

Continuity in general is wrong tf??

[thick yacht]

Not if it’s a clone body made for that purpose with no conscience or sentience

It would just be a blank slate

[ashen pulsar]

They figured out prime grineer and still decided to use children

that’s rlly fked up. that’s not “lack of alternatives”. That’s a decision.

[iron tiger]

They did that for exoticism too like treasure hunting

[strange turtle]

You are not an equal. You are not even close. You are an insignificant lesser who is so so far below them. To begin with you are not even on an even playing field or even a close social standing. Worse still, these are people from a culture that has actively raised and shaped them into lording their superiority over others and viewing them as lesser

Perhaps redemption could have been a lot simpler for many, a good few centuries ago before all that cultural indoctrination set in and cemented.

But now? Even just getting them into a condition to consider stuff like this would he an astronomical task for the majority. Let alone even getting into the position to be able to try and do that in the first place

[ashen pulsar]

if any significant number of orokin survived, they would never change

[strange turtle]

There’s a reason the only two proper instances of redemption we’ve seen have had major personal catalysts and already been outliers

[ashen pulsar]

roathe didn’t even like being one that much and he still probably wouldn’t have changed. It took a near-death experience and extreme impostor syndrome to change albrecht, memory loss to change the family

[thick yacht]

The thing is even becoming an Orokin wasn’t something that was impossible. It was possible to rise above your class. I’m pretty sure those Lua Puzzles called Ascension were meant to prove those who were worthy of becoming Orokin could endure the Seven Principles

Even Ordan Karris was offered the opportunity to become an Orokin

Class ascension was possible within their society, even near the end as it got worse

[strange turtle]

Lets say you do, somehow, get loads of people with the right personalities, personal views and/or skills to even have a feasible shot at doing this, and then give them training for vaguely similar stuff for good measure

What about all the people already suffering because of them? If we’re avoiding violence we can’t just rip them from their positions and put them in some like, netherlands type of situation

Even if we do, we just pissed them off and made it twice as difficulg

[strange turtle]

And?

[drowsy ether]

Source on that?

[ashen pulsar]

A luxury available to those with enough greed and ambitiousness to abandon their class and become a monster

[strange turtle]

That only matters, as we have seen in all examples, if they actually do become one

[thick yacht]

Again, being an Orokin doesn’t automatically make you a monster

[drowsy ether]

Because if you don't have one, then that might as well be headcanon

[thick yacht]

Monsters are made not born

[ashen pulsar]

nope. Just acting like one.

[thick yacht]

The issue is that people approach the Orokin from a position of immense bias immediately

You have to try to be neutral

[humble sierra]

This is a weird reason ngl

[drowsy ether]

And what do you think being given colossal amounts of power and influence (and immortality on top) would make of a person?

[ashen pulsar]

in this case, made by choosing to stay among the social class of people who abuse and murder children, who treat billions of lives as toys, who kill whoever they feel like for their own gain.

[tall echo]

roathe KIM spoiler, seems relevant to the current topic

[thick yacht]

As I said

It was never always like that

Innodem: “In the early Orokin Empire, elites wore Innodem as a symbolic reminder to defend the defenseless.”

This alone shows me that they used to once be decent, good people.

They once stood for all mankind

To defend those who couldn’t defend themselves, to lead humanity

The Orokin were the saviours of humanity turned its tormentors

[iron tiger]

A reminder that they ignored 😂

[thick yacht]

That they forgot.

Because they grew more corrupted

[strange turtle]

Yes, but that doesn’t matter, because it’s what it’s like now

If any of those Orokin are alive, that point in there life is a flicker compared to whatever point it changed at. And for those that continued on with that attitude.

Well, I can’t imagine many, if any, lasted too long in the changing environment

[thick yacht]

It was likely in the Lith-Meso era of the Empire

[strange turtle]

Most bad people were good or at least okay once, that doesn’t make them particularly more agreeable to changing for the better

[thick yacht]

The Axi Era is the one we know for the Orokin that are degenerates

[drowsy ether]

Symbolic reminders usually are just that

It really says nothing of how they were in the early days of the Empire.

In practice, I mean.

[thick yacht]

The Orokin took control after the radiation wars

They had to guide and lead humanity out of ruin and destruction

So I assume at first, at least, they took that seriously

[tall echo]

I still don't know where the idea of relic era=historic era came from

[drowsy ether]

They would take it seriously when it came to guiding humanity down the path they wished for

Because really, who was gonna stop them?

[dire mountain]

Oh is this. I understand it now

[thick yacht]

And who’s to say that at first, the path they wished for wasn’t one of uplifting?

Why assume the ones at the beginning were the same as the ones at the end

Were the Romans of 100 BC the same as the Romans of 1400 AD?

[waxen mesa]

Because the names are based off eras

[tall echo]

what is the source

[waxen mesa]

History?

[dark compass]

Nightwave has a goal that says "unlock relics from each era"

[tall echo]

relic era, sure

[dark compass]

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood what you said

Brain damage

[lean garden]

I mean, what else would era mean here then?

[dire mountain]

What does "relic era" mean other than the period of time the relic is from?

[fast dew]

Im seeing like. 2 conversations happen at once. Orokin justification and era talks

[drowsy ether]

On that same vein, who's to say it was that, and not an opportunity to bring the remnants of human civilization under their wing, their rules, dressed under the rhetoric of "uplifting"?

[waxen mesa]

I don't think anyone really thinks lith relics are from Paleolithic times. It's just how the relics were named

[strange turtle]

No they mean like

[lean garden]

theres also the mumbojumbo of:

Lith: old; stone age
Meso: middle
Neo: New
Axi: axial; spanky new

[strange turtle]

An era within the Orokin Empire’s history referred to with “lith”

[tall echo]

the thing is, the eras can't refer to anything even just before the old war because they contain warframe bps

[strange turtle]

Not the literal real world paleolithic era

[waxen mesa]

I misunderstood

[drowsy ether]

Continuing: You make assumptions too generous in light of what has been actually observed regarding Orokin society.

[thick yacht]

[dire mountain]

Idk considering the whole, fascist takeover in Höllvania leading to the orokin empire

[thick yacht]

There is nothing in lore showing scaldra had anything to do with the Empire

Scaldra were useless bums led by Wally using Rusalka as a body