lore-discussion

[pale cedar]

Just gonna break a few Sentient arms

[iron tiger]

Weren’t we supposed to litterally use sentient arms as amps we could switch to in mission?

[dark compass]

Level cap thrax legionarie trying to escape with the ghost mode only for the operator to pull out Bigcocculyst Tauforged Klamora amp

[wary vault]

Wouldn't be opposed of few or at least one Tau Archgun, since they've been buffed now.

[dark compass]

https://tenor.com/view/kaboom-boom-nuke-nuclear-bomb-gif-20734003

[pale cedar]

Heard they had an idea like that

[dark compass]

Oh and if they make adversary amps

Maybe it would mean something like

Tau dmg on them

[iron tiger]

That’d be kinda op actually

Tau’s effect makes the target more vulnerable to other damage types

[wary vault]

more easy priming for us, lot more headache for DE to account for

[iron tiger]

They wanted it

All this after removing forcefield and laser damage

[dark compass]

they already gave us venato prime

its a slippery slope

[woven coyote]

wdym voruna was at the zariman ?

there were no warframes in the zariman

[ashen pulsar]

except for random gyre parts, apparently /j

[marble pewter]

Through the power of the Void, and in how they were “resurrected”, are the Holdfasts living people or..ghosts in a way?

Are they just replicas of the original people who died on the Zariman?

[fast dew]

Conceptual embodiment iirc

[marble pewter]

Right and to reiterate and ask what Lyon said - "When the Void is given form, what wanders from it - is it 'real?'"

[lean garden]

depends on your definition of real

[marble pewter]

lmao thats the response I gave haha

[lean garden]

chemistry response

[fast dew]

If i can touch em, they're real to me

Oh. Btw.

The French revolution is important now

[marble pewter]

Oh how? And is it the same revolution that Lyon mentioned his grandparents took part in?

[fast dew]

... what

[marble pewter]

It had a different name hold on

[fast dew]

Oh for hells sake

[marble pewter]

“My grandparents met during the Gaullique Revolution. War and death have always been partners that lead to a dance of camaraderie in the strangest of ways.”

[fast dew]

... so the French revolution. This is... useful.

That took place around 1799, so that's why I was interested, but if it was his grandparents

[marble pewter]

Yea I was confused as well

[fast dew]

Delightful. We seem to have a lot of proof for when xx99 takes place

Outside the deleted line and the nuked image that can't be relied on

[dark compass]

I'm glad I contributed to it

https://tenor.com/view/happy-cat-yippee-cat-gif-6081453495700419424

[strong viper]

I'm confused, if the flora on Tau is what allowed Sentients to gain sentience and control of themselves, how is it they have the ability current day, like Hunhow and Erra?

[dark compass]

We do not know yet

The current theory is that this applied to sentient "fragments"

Someone like Hunhow is a larger member that smaller fragments split from and are being actively controlled by the hivemind

[fast dew]

After his womb got sandblasted by the void

[dark compass]

And xenoflora lets the fragments breathe freely

[strong viper]

That works until you consider Erra is Hunhow's child.

[dark compass]

it's a current theory

They haven't given an explanation on Hunhow and the gang yet

[fast dew]

... womb

Hunhow has a womb.

[strong viper]

Yes.

[fast dew]

He gave birth to erra and natah.

They are not fragments like the others are

[dark compass]

Fragments

Not children

[swift gyro]

Who is the person that drifter talks about with marie in the...||mutilation chat?||

[dark compass]

Fragments are split off the body to function

Children are born

[strong viper]

I'm assuming Rell or ambiguous for the Player

[strong viper]

I mean they still came from Hunhow. It was also said they were born of him before the jump from Tau, explaining how he was able to create more.

[dark compass]

Either way it's just a theory

[swift gyro]

Rell? i quiet dont remember that name bcs i played most jorneys some years ago and just started playing again few months ago so i dont remember it

[dark compass]

... a game theory

[strong viper]

Chains of Harrow quest. Rap tap tap.

[dark compass]

We will probably learn more when the tau update comes

Hunhow wouldn't want to miss it

[strong viper]

It's possible they just found more. Tau is an entire solar system after all.

[fast dew]

Yeah and their creation is different compared to fragments, so they will not abide by the same issues the fragments have. I fail to see how it doesn't fit.

[swift gyro]

yeah, i played that quiet time ago, thats why i dont remember it, i might watch a play through.

[fast dew]

||Severely autisitc kid responsible for holding back the man in the wall.||

[strong viper]

Quest is replayable, so you can do that. It's just another operator that wasn't put to sleep by the Lotus, went crazy and held back Man in the Wall alone for years.

[swift gyro]

Now thats a way to get someone attention to something.

[fast dew]

Quite literally actually. Wally is particularly interested in unique things. Rell was particularly unique.

[swift gyro]

||but why thomas put autistic?|| ?

[strong viper]

He is, Rell used emotion cards to communicate with his "mama," who he cherished.

[fast dew]

Rell is autisitc. It's likely why Wally was so fixated. Rell was already isolated from others (something wally likes), and is unique.

[dark compass]

Rell was also hypersensitive to certain stimuli

I think it was touch?

Or sound?

[strange plinth]

"touching is too much noise" yes

[dark compass]

Touch, right

[swift gyro]

oh yeah, some fragments of memory are coming back rn, i think i liked that jorney.

[strong viper]

Rell was a super unique character. I appreciate he showed up during New War, but it sucks we don't see much more of him.

[fast dew]

All things. Sound, light, touch. Its fair and relatable.

[strange plinth]

also
Palladino: "The Donda! His mother gave him this. Holy Rell was not like other children. Sound, color, touch... it overwhelmed him. The Donda's hum let him focus."

[fast dew]

Me and the bad static toast has

[swift gyro]

||and rell died bcs well...cuts?||

[fast dew]

Old age.

[strange plinth]

^ bound himself to harrow to escape it, we released him from harrow

[fast dew]

Also, don't worry about spoilering things. Quest has been out for... god, 4 years?

[strange plinth]

yea. mostly KIM stuff that deserves spoilers atm

[swift gyro]

i though he died from multilation. since drifter talks about someone who died from that

[fast dew]

Oh, that could be a bazillion of different people.

[swift gyro]

also, how does KIMULACRUM have already all the chats with the characters?

[strange plinth]

data mining
they have all the internals of it
DE's fine with it, given that they even warned the people behind kimulacrum that what they were doing for the first two groups wouldn't work for the third

[fast dew]

Data mining and formatting it for us

[swift gyro]

isnt that suppose to cause problem for whoever is the owner of that site?

[dark compass]

For being an online game warframe is surprisingly extremely lax with encoding files

[fast dew]

Probably. Doesn't seem to so far.

[fast dew]

Nice of them

[dark compass]

Yeah, if it doesn't ultimately harm the game and doesn't contain leaks of upcoming content

Harmless all in all

[strange plinth]

yea. teases that would be revealed in a few weeks (as the chats naturally progress) vs actual upcoming content

[swift gyro]

so basicly DE is cool since isnt a ´´spoiler´´ of future things and yes its because the chats are already in the game?

[dark compass]

Ye

[strange plinth]

that's the best way to explain it without a proper statement from DE, yea

[dark compass]

Enforcing kim chat "leaks" before everyone gets here somehow is so much more effort than it would ever be of any worth

[fast dew]

They just don't like it when you shouldn't be able to access it normally

[swift gyro]

well, DE sure knows how to be chill about problems.

[dark compass]

They openly admit what makes them the most money on the in-game market on a dev stream

You'd get shot for doing that in most other companies

[swift gyro]

but if they dont like that, why dont they put more effort on making the codes more secure or stronger?

[fast dew]

1. Its harder than expected
2. People hate anti-temp for some reason

[lean garden]

"It will break the kimulacrum"

The KIMulacrum 2 days later:

[swift gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/nuh-uh-meme-bois-boyss-gif-1619462772400138877

[dark compass]

Added a thermometer

[lean garden]

https://tenor.com/view/luffy-one-piece-gif-26046761

[swift gyro]

image u can hear the audio even without it.

[fickle lily]

For years I thought Nihil was an "executor," but he was "executioner"

[strange plinth]

yea

[lean garden]

bro got retcon fired

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-cat-catlaughing-laughingcat-point-gif-7577620470218150413

[swift gyro]

So, in the end of kaya chats. did she really was able to go to her future/ ´´our present´´ or she is in somewhere in the time?

[proper barn]

Oh probably. Seemingly made with toothpicks and bubble gum.

[strange plinth]

have you finished her chats entirely?

[swift gyro]

Yeah. ik i didnt get her ´´bad´´ final where she stays in 1999 forever.

[strange plinth]

she tells you to meet her in larunda relay

[lean garden]

so you got the ending where she tells you to find her in larunda?

[swift gyro]

yeah, she talks about something about live, laughs and something else.

[proper barn]

If you do it successfully. You can see her somewhere.

[lean garden]

then go to larunda and find her

[loud oriole]

yeah she's somewhere with quite the view of larunda

[pliant kernel]

Why did Warframe make my character emo😶😶

[strange plinth]

hm?

[proper barn]

What does this mean?

@pliant kernel you can't ask a question and then leave lmao

[pliant kernel]

My bad 😞

[humble sierra]

Soulframe already stole Jenn before Rebb got a chance to.

[dark compass]

Jennifer gets around

If Neil got into warframe twice

She can get into warframe once

[proper barn]

What was your question can you

Expand on it.

[humble sierra]

Praying

[proper barn]

Like what did you mean by your question.

[lean garden]

shes in soulframe?

[pliant kernel]

My character used to have red hair and red eyes but after the update it has black hair and black eyes 😭

[quick wadi]

just gotta change the colors in the face options

[lean garden]

got hit with the hot topic change

[fast dew]

Id argue red hair and red eyes are far more emo than black on black

[strange plinth]

odd
it should've tried to match it as close as possible
maybe legacy color shenanigans or something idk

[dark compass]

I want Scott Arthur in warframe for no reason in particular

[dark compass]

Yep, was in the latest trailer

[proper barn]

@pliant kernel what Grey said. You can still change it and probably should up your characters. Reb did say we are getting more faces especially masc faces soon.

If you care about that.

[pliant kernel]

Okay thanks 👍

[lean garden]

oh lol, I need to catch up on soulframe, I have founders

[humble sierra]

She will be soon, she's the one in the Game Awards trailer. Can't remember her character's name but she's meant to be a wrathful Faerie queen?

[swift gyro]

Guys, how exactly did kaya managed to go for the future ´´our present´´ and is it possible to her to bring the rest of the hexa with her?

[humble sierra]

She figured out time travel. Likely made a machine like what Entrati used, but the bigger issue was navigation, which she solved by using the Drifter as a conduit point to link to the "present", based on how Argon crystals return to the Void upon dissolving.

She likely can bring the others too. The non-canon Operation Orias ttrpg has her send Protoframes to the future.

[proper barn]

Roathe makes a Helmith to get back to "our time"

Or to get to our time I guess.

[marble pewter]

I forgot if this happened but I wish the Hex group chat talked about Kaya’s time travel and whether or not they wanted to join her. Coz I’m sure they’re tired of staying in the time loop

Maybe Kaya didn’t want to risk bringing the others with her

And maybe there’s a possibility of it happening in the future anyways as the story goes on

[quiet tide]

So what is the helminth exactly? Is it some creature that blurs the line between God and mortal? Because it sure feels like it with what these things are capable of.

[loud oriole]

infestation prime pretty much, one of the better with lore people will probably have a way better explanation

[proper barn]

The Helmith is a cultured infestation made to make warframes/upkeep warframes.

Now it can for some reason see through time and space to all other infestation but this might just he a latent ability of all infestation but a greater question then is "why does it agree to work with us then?" And that question we don't know. @quiet tide

[vast cedar]

huh, interesting

[quiet tide]

Roathe was able to make one with his blood, which is why I ask

[proper barn]

now @quiet tide you could say since this is a version of infestation made for warframes and seemingly not infectous from touch or many of the ways infestation is infectious is "tame" for us cuz it was made by the orokin specificlly for the purpose of making warframes but it can talk to us it bargings with us it can sense void. The greater infestation is afraid of the void. It knows the difference between a warframes and a operator. and makes a deal with the opreator that's waht the helminth segment upgrade is us doing.

[proper barn]

well his HELMINTHED blood. he is a warframe after all even if pariatlly.

we use helminth to get to 1999 Cuz of the infested seeminlgy connection to each other through time and SPACE.

seeminlgy if we had the time and the connection to it the helminth could maybe send us to any other time with a helminth virus maybe any time with a helminth but i'm not entirelly sure.

[proper barn]

Lizzie is very intresting cuz we leanred a lot of the time stuff and seeing all infested at once from her. it's a very odd thing.

that we basiclly have a dog that can see every other wolf and canid through time but for some reason it still works with us. it could probably revolt or something or just asorb all our warframe maybe or infect our ship but it doesn't.

very intresting.

[stray herald]

has anyone did what roathe told us to do by reseting the devil's triad batch?

[quiet tide]

I always believed that all the infestation was in some way artificial, I just didn’t know why or how

[proper barn]

artificial in what way?

we don't know the origin of the infested.

[loud oriole]

every time i see 'Roathe made his own helminth with his own blood' all i can think about is; "Tony Stark made this in a cave with a box of scraps!"

[proper barn]

Or tech rot.

[tall echo]

it is basically the same thing

[quiet tide]

Man made, like it was probably some freak lab accident, or a bioweapon to be used on someone

[tall echo]

we don't know its origin, but it's likely not artificial

[quiet tide]

It wouldn’t surprise me with the Orokins current track record

[proper barn]

maybe. we know there is a hive mind.

we don't know it though.

[tall echo]

the infestation is way older than the orokin

[proper barn]

yeah.

[quiet tide]

Oooh

[proper barn]

The helminth is made by the orokin.

I said that. it's just part of the GREATER infestation.

it's specificlly the strain for all warframes.

like @quiet tide I said Lizzie and seemingly the helminth can see all tech rot and all current day infestation at once.

which is seemingly also how we can time travel with the helminth.

[swift gyro]

Who is the girl that little duck talks when she refers to ´´a blind girl with a void portal´´?

[strange plinth]

its referencing the ghouls comic iirc

[winter berry]

https://www.warframe.com/media/comics/ghouls1

[scenic depot]

is there a lore reason why marie said 67

[humble sierra]

It's a reference to how old she was when her parents abandoned her

[restive river]

What’s the exact quote?

[marble pewter]

Marie: And abandoned to die.

Drifter: How old were you?

Marie: Six ? Seven ? In their eyes, they had tried their best to mend me for many years. Tutors to teach me to walk. Braces. Footwear.

[strange plinth]

in other words, a completely normal response

[tall echo]

C E A S E

[restive river]

Yeah
I’m gonna choose to believe it’s nothing more

[scenic depot]

there is NO WAY de didnt know what they were doing

i had to hit the world's greatest lock in

[tall echo]

There is. Grow up.

[scenic depot]

really well written conversation tho

[marble pewter]

Yea and historically accurate

When she mentioned braces and footwear mannn I felt that too

[tall echo]

Somewhere out there is a discord user named io

[marble pewter]

hm?

[tall echo]

Stupid joke, it's 5am, brain is no work

[tall echo]

Mario

[swift gyro]

who is drusus?

[cunning tapir]

Leverian guy.

[strange plinth]

cephalon dedicated to the preservation, and display, of knowledge/history. usually regarding the warframes

[restive river]

Museum curator

[pine orchid]

Drusus is p cool

[swift gyro]

how did he ended up turning into a cephalon?

[tall echo]

Unknown

[strange plinth]

seems like his body was sold to someone. he mentions that he 'might be able to buy' it if you donate over a million credits
"Ahh... with that... I could buy my bod- *clears throat* A lavish gift for the Leverian!"

[marble pewter]

Drifter — I hope whoever that someone is , that they’re dead. Or they will be

Honestly wish we could help Drusus somehow

[pine orchid]

agreed, we already kinda help him with the sanctum interception but would be nice to have like a side mission specifically for helping him

(with his whole body thing)

[marble pewter]

Exactly

[tall echo]

Disruption

Imagine if dante was farmed through interception

[restive river]

Likely this

(if the Tenno idles) "I remember when we learned of the warframe insurrections. Their madness, savage and sudden, justifying all the Orokin fear. All their heroic deeds were forgotten in an instant. Those like Dante, who had yet to succumb, became fugitives. To shelter them meant death – or glassing."

[strange plinth]

is there anything farmed through interception only actually

[marble pewter]

..damn

[restive river]

Drusus knew where Dante was so

Yeah ):

[tall echo]

Nah

DE is merciful

[strange plinth]

thankfully

[swift gyro]

I quiet dont understood that message... i am either dumb or just dumb enough since english isnt my main language, so translating might change what it was supposed to mean originally.

[tall echo]

looks at harrow neuro and systems

[pine orchid]

oh yeah sorry lmao -ption gamemodes XD

[tall echo]

Drusus got glassed for refusing to reveal dante's location

Possibly

[restive river]

Probably

[marble pewter]

Ducky’s message on Drusus or my one word message?

[restive river]

He is a cephalon and that would explain it

[swift gyro]

Ducky. put just to clarify, being glassed means turning into a cephalon?

[restive river]

Drusus was connected with Dante (I don’t think it says how) when Dante died in the labs

[restive river]

Yup!

[tall echo]

I wonder if drusus knew cordylon

[swift gyro]

ah ok. then it clarifies everything. also, are just the orokin knows how to turn people into cephalon?

[tall echo]

Specifically only nihil

[restive river]

Yeah only the Orokin know

[swift gyro]

nihil?

[restive river]

I mean it was just Orokin tech, Quinn glasses people

[tall echo]

The glassmaker

[marble pewter]

“Nihil the Glassmaker”

[restive river]

Nihil is an Orokin who went on a serial glassing spree

He’s in a jar now :)

[tall echo]

"Nihil's cephalon program"

[pine orchid]

the technology has to be similar with the way they make ayatan stars right? memories being involved and all

[restive river]

Yeah his tech

[swift gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-cat-sad-cat-me-when-i-dont-get-orod-tickets-gif-13399313231964052110

oh, what a good name huh...totally makes sense... but the meaning...

[tall echo]

Very different

[restive river]

We literally had a serial killer storyline with him, had to investigate crime scenes and everything

[marble pewter]

Yea with Nora

[tall echo]

Ayatans are extracted memories, cephalons are digitized conciousnesses

[swift gyro]

cephalon are basicly people who had their minds transfered to a digitalized form ( idk how to name it like what is it exaclty, like a code or just an AI) then they have their old bodies burned and orokin puts some forced codes on them, right?

[pine orchid]

to me it's like the difference being your fridge making ice cubes and full on cryo

[restive river]

https://youtu.be/qQwpL1CzQvU?si=Thy2vH3Qdm66Oo2J

[tall echo]

Not burned

[pine orchid]

are digitized consciousnesses not built upon all the memories of that person and who they were?

[tall echo]

Yeah... no. Not even remotely

[swift gyro]

i dont remember all the jorneys since i stopped playing when i did most of the jorneys and started playing just a few months after 1999.

[restive river]

It was a limited time story so don’t worry about it

There isn’t a way to replay it unfortunately

[restive river]

But we have this if you want to see what it was like

[tall echo]

That's up to personal philosophy

[swift gyro]

nop. so no, isnt a ´´copy´´ or ´´writing the memory of a person´´ is literally having you digitalized into an AI and being forced to follow certain orders with barely any if you luck conscience

[tall echo]

?

[pine orchid]

well alright I suppose it can be an agree to disagree on that front

[swift gyro]

might have lost it or havent started played when it was avaliable

[tall echo]

Cephalons are not ai. That is explicitly why they exist at all, the orokin feared ai

[swift gyro]

some people treat them like AI tho. atleast who explained for the first time. even tho its a bit wrong

[marble pewter]

In Drifter’s own words: “Because Cephalons are digitally preserved life forms, they can get...tweaked.”

[tall echo]

And artificial doesn't exactly apply to a human conciousness

[tall echo]

Some people are wrong

[restive river]

Cephalons aren’t entirely artificial, they’re primarily a human mind that can be edited in a digital form
They aren’t like say, the Sentients as Cephalons are already sapient (they just mostly adhere to their precepts)

[swift gyro]

kinda bad to treat cephalon like AI, they were once humans, for me they still a human but not being able to do what you want. i think it depends on how many ´´orders´´ the orokin put into you, no?

[tall echo]

The reprogrammed cephalons were only punishment

[restive river]

Precepts yes

Cephalons can also have their memories removed

[tall echo]

Voluntary ones are free

[restive river]

It’s largely a punishment

I think the only one that wasn’t was Suda?

That’s known at least

[pine orchid]

we do have necraloid and loid existing at the same time so to me the process having memories involved makes sense (because I believe someone's memories and experiences are what makes you who you are, you make your choices based on your experiences, which seems to be in line with how Orokin/Roathe views memories)

[tall echo]

Ye

[swift gyro]

orokin be like: oh no, you slammed down my ice cream... NOW GET TURNED INTO A DIGITALIZED FORM!!

[tall echo]

Necraloid is also notably dfferent from ALL other cephalons

[restive river]

Yup

Necraloid is a weird one

Cephalon adjacent ig?

[pine orchid]

and the editing your personality part means tampering with your memories, which is why Roathe and Orokin sees it as the ultimate punishment

[swift gyro]

how does necraloid and loid exist? is like 50% of the memory of the original brain separeted into each other?

[restive river]

I’d imagine most would consider it one unless there was no other option, like Suda

[restive river]

Necraloid seems to be a copy or clone, not a cephalon in the same way as Ordis or Otak

[swift gyro]

Also who is the full cephalon who ´´didnt suffer the most´´?

[restive river]

I think it gets brought up in the new KIM convos but I’m unsure

[pine orchid]

yeah, to me it sounded like Suda was already suffering from some form of... dementia? alzheimers? so preserving who she was through Cephalon-ification makes sense I think

[restive river]

Suda became one willingly

[swift gyro]

and why did necroloid got built then?

[restive river]

Yup, it was the only way to retain her memories

[tall echo]

Ask albrecht

[swift gyro]

why the hell would she/he, would become one willingly? does it also have limitation or suffering?

[swift gyro]

ah ok

[restive river]

Yeah lol

[tall echo]

Mate. Again, the reprogramming was only used for punishment

[restive river]

Being a cephalon means your mind, memories, you can be edited
You also aren’t physical

[restive river]

Suda

[tall echo]

Yes?

[restive river]

Hers wasn’t a punishment lol

[tall echo]

She wasn't reprogrammed

[swift gyro]

but in Her case didnt exactly seem a ´´punishment´´ to be honest.

[tall echo]

Yes

[pine orchid]

the only reprogramming Suda ever went through (as far as we know?) was bcs of Hunhow right? when Hunhow was messing with her in the Octavia quest

[restive river]

Oh i misread mb lol

[tall echo]

Less reprogramming, more deletion

[restive river]

Yeah that’s more assault than a punishment

[pine orchid]

oh right he was overwriting not editing her-

[fast dew]

Well. The theory is that loid needed to replaced in the family when both he and Albrecht leave. So, Albrecht got Loid made into a cephalon. Apparently it is a painless, non-destructive procedure when done without the intent of punishment. As much as Nihil probably wanted to punish Loid lol

Another idea that fits in, is that Albrecht thought the labs and the family wouldn't function without Loid, or that there's noone he'd rather spend time with than loid, forgetting 2 Loids might not like each other.

[tall echo]

Can I cut a few pieces off hunhow as revenge for that btw?

[pine orchid]

still the best mission with the cephalons it was so fun lowkey may or may not have a bit of Suda x Simaris fantasies

[fast dew]

They're glass boxes broski what are they gonna do😭

[tall echo]

Simaris is a tsundere

[tall echo]

They choose their shape sooo

[fast dew]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-441666516964176409

[tall echo]

Like, drusus chose to be a face made of obols

[pine orchid]

I don't mean fantasies as in "fantasies" I meant like they seem cute interacting together! they live right next door (ish) to each other and simaris was like nooo I didnt come here to help you or anything... baka.... 😭

[restive river]

The cephalons make up for being basic geometric shapes by having a lot of personality

[fast dew]

Im still not super sure he is a cephalon 😭

[restive river]

Also it’s just cool to see what form they take, some are so unique

[pine orchid]

you could say they're all personality Xd

[tall echo]

He is

[restive river]

Lmao

[pine orchid]

Cy is our... space uncle? he's a rlly cool guy I love him

[tall echo]

My personality consists entirely of being obnoxiously lore obsessed

[fast dew]

He has a body he can buy back, which is... odd. Compared to other cephalons

[tall echo]

Also puns

[tall echo]

I'm like 90% sure he's explicitly called a cephalon in more recent texts

[pine orchid]

Very Solaris coded true

[restive river]

Their bodies aren’t destroyed in the process, his may have been preserved

[pine orchid]

but to me sounds like... he sold his body to the Corpus and ran out of body parts so now his brain is shelved too but he exists as a cephalon... or smth

[restive river]

Also he has to buy back his body thay
Kinda implies he can be away from his body

[pine orchid]

thats just a fanfic! a drusus fanfic!

[restive river]

And he only appears to us as many geomtric shapes
Like a cephalon

[tall echo]

Corpus can't make cephalons

[silk atlas]

Late on this one but a KIM convo mentions that it is possible that someone can be Cephalon'd without destroying them, which would explain Necraloid and Loid still existing.

[restive river]

Heck the leverian is in the weave, it matches with the glassmaker investigations-

[pine orchid]

well I didn't say it had to be the Corpus who cephalon'd him

[tall echo]

And brain shelving is like sensory deprivation so that's not it either

[tall echo]

Who else?

[restive river]

Even if nothing specifically states he’s a cephalon everything points to him being a cephalon

[pine orchid]

Nihil was still around until we come dome him so... probably him?

[tall echo]

Nihil's victims were freed

[pine orchid]

maybe sold off Drusus' body to someone as a statue too idk

[fast dew]

Ehh, not really. He disappeared for a long, long time.

They also weren't full cephalons

They were cephalites, they are different

[tall echo]

Why would he

[fast dew]

Parvos could've had it

[restive river]

More things point to him being a cephalon so I’m pretty sure Drusus is a cephalon

[tall echo]

Nihil was also a cephalon at the time of glassmaker

[pine orchid]

for shits and giggles idk? I didn't play the glassmaker
I just said Corpus because the Corpus is like the faction we know of who trade body parts like with the Solaris it ain't that serious XD

[restive river]

How was he glassing people from the weave
Ig that’d be part of why he was a threat?

I gotta go through the glassmaker story again

[tall echo]

It is.

Lore is always serious

[pine orchid]

I do like having a bit of fun with lore, including insane tinfoil hat theories, so fair warning to you I hope I'll try to clearly note when I'm joking

[fast dew]

I'd say Lyon taking his clothes off before getting the helminth shot is kinda funny

[tall echo]

Either be serious or obviously joking so the 'tism doesn't get strangly

[fast dew]

Real

Or just use tone tags

[tall echo]

I wonder if albrecht was present for it or not

[pine orchid]

I try! as a tism myself sometimes I also have trouble with recognizing if my jokes are obvs or not I'll try to be consistent

[fast dew]

He absolutely would've been, he'd be the one infecting it kekw

[proper barn]

Hey fake well bio and mechanical parts. Chipper bought all his untraceable.

But this goes into like the Corpus will sell anything even something that might hurt then at some point.

[tall echo]

-# Uses time travel to switch places with albrecht

[pine orchid]

yeah that checks out

[proper barn]

There's too much neurodivergence Here for this neurotypical nonsense.

[lean garden]

and then he forgot to take the hat off

[tall echo]

Indeed

[fast dew]

Albrecht turning around to see Lyon ass naked and ready to inject

It seemed to be unprompted too. Lyon thought of it himself lol

[pine orchid]

dyou think he warned them that the transformation could cause their clothes to meld into them

and so Lyon was like "ah yes remove all my clothes got it"

[proper barn]

Chipper is very funny as a character. I like him. I think Little Duck also has all her parts untraceable. I think that's mostly cuz the Unum doesn't want her contacts tracked.

[fast dew]

Albrecht probably mentioned how it fuses artificial shit, but didnt tell him to remove his clothes

[pine orchid]

I do like Chipper I wish I could see more Chipper

[tall echo]

I hope everyone reads "indeed" like that one oblivion meme because that's how I read it

[proper barn]

Idk if this happens. Cuz we have the Naked Lyon Picture.

But some metal did get into Lyon it seems.

[fast dew]

Could be helminth over his actual clothes

[proper barn]

A little.

[tall echo]

Helminth

[proper barn]

Yeah.

[fast dew]

We have the line, hold on where is it

[proper barn]

No I know.

[proper barn]

"My bits work" line

Or something else

[tall echo]

I think the metal bits on his back are also present on harrow? Not sure

[proper barn]

This was a 1999 line.

[fast dew]

No, like Lyon has a line talking about how he removed his clothes

[proper barn]

Oh ah.

[tall echo]

Haven't seen base harrow in a while

[proper barn]

Yes.?

@tall echo I won't show the above but most his but is all hemlith just not his front.

Liger is great. Lmao.

[tall echo]

What

[proper barn]

Did you not

See the liger tweet

Liger made the proto frame designs.

You asked what part of him is helmithed.

[fast dew]

"Mara Lohk... I have seen his name!"

This is... interesting. Thank you Lyon

[tall echo]

I... no

[pine orchid]

I think I remember seeing the whole of Lyon in the concept art when it came out and my friends and I were like ooooooh- 👀

[proper barn]

Lettie is the only proto with normal Feet.

[tall echo]

That's not what I asked at all

[fast dew]

They haven't gotten all his lines on the wiki yet so i can't find the exact line im referencing, but just know it exists 😭

[proper barn]

Yes.

[fast dew]

Yeah. The art station one is the censored one. And not by clothes.

[stray herald]

fun fact, lyon can hear the rap tap tap

[proper barn]

Someone could check bit I'm 99% sure.

[pine orchid]

mmhmm

[fast dew]

Mhm.

[proper barn]

Well he has rells stuff.

And knows about rell so.

Also Albretch was their regilous leader

And his whole thing is about Wally.

[stray herald]

did rell perform continuity on the harrow frame? or was it just speculation

[serene shadow]

https://www.tumblr.com/nagaduss/803052440265080832

lyon's miracle 🌙

He stripped naked to take the serum? 🥹

-# #warframe #lyon allard

Tumblr · Dec 16, 2025, 2:01 AM

[marble pewter]

Lyon in missions: "Yes, yes, yes. RAP TAP TAP!"

[proper barn]

Continuity? No? But Harrow is rells frame.

[pine orchid]

ah so he rlly was like "ok remove all my clothes before injection got it"

[proper barn]

This is funny.

Also Kayak has a sweater but that's like over the only part of her that's not infested.

[serene shadow]

i brought this post up to friends a few days ago lol

hence the availability

[tall echo]

How do people misread that as "his hat is stuck to his head" I thought y'all were better than this

[proper barn]

Mitre?

Idk what a mitre is.

[fast dew]

Shout out to this piece of Lyon, from Liger.

[tall echo]

His hat

[tall echo]

What the

[proper barn]

I mean liger is great at art. Why do you think they got offered to work at DE after drawing warframe smut?

[marble pewter]

I just saw this the other day lol love it

[proper barn]

Liger is great.

[fast dew]

Mainly cus those artists have some of the best understandings of the human body, which is incredibly important in concept design

[proper barn]

A higher than 1 number of people that now work at DE where nsfw related before and that's just funny to me. Also it's why the designs in warframe are like sexy in a way that makes sense ans isn't objectifying.

[tall echo]

Man I sure hope no one gifts me the lyon gemini skin, that would suck...

[pine orchid]

every artist knows smut is the best way to learn anatomy

right? someone back me up here-

[proper barn]

Yeah.

[fast dew]

Dw I'll get it for you, for Christmas.. on uh. The 29th.

[tall echo]

Isn't objectifying except when it randomly is

[proper barn]

Okay but not in the same way.

[fast dew]

Actually

[stray herald]

if you've seen their artstation, liger has done a gender bent evelynn from LOL

[pine orchid]

wisp, ember, mesa from behind: 🍑

[fast dew]

The more objectified designs come from fans, albeit DE does allow them

[tall echo]

Heirlooms

[fast dew]

Heirlooms are designed by fans, are they not?

[pine orchid]

Sevagoth prime too 🍑

[proper barn]

It's hard to explain. There's a difference between like "hey this game that has no sexual things at all now this Character has her boobs out in this skin" compared to like a game thats like themes and Character are intrinsically like this anyway.

[fast dew]

Sevagoth prime was Liger iirc

[marble pewter]

Oh that’s awesome

[pine orchid]

I actually don't know who designs heirlooms

[lean garden]

well thats on account of not having that line play before, so the tone can affect whether it means its stuck on him or not

[pine orchid]

but yea I remember the tidbit that Sevagoth was Liger's work

[proper barn]

How do I explain it its like the difference between like doing it cuz its artistic and good design and cuz it would look good and just like "hey in thin E rated game you wanna see some cleavage on this Character?" Does that make sense.

[tall echo]

Nah

The wording is very clear

[fast dew]

I think people forget that warframe isn't 18+ in every country

[lean garden]

not if you only got the last line via the power of screenshot

[tall echo]

Even then

[proper barn]

@fast dew I just wanna make sure what I'm saying is getting across. Okay even if it's not 18 it's at least teen and it has Characters that talk about this.

[tall echo]

People misread bc people want the funny

[lean garden]

even then its split between "Lol I had the foresight to remove it" and "I wish this thing wasnt stuck on my head" unless you hear the actual delivery

[proper barn]

The point is it makes sense and isn't outta place here but it is in some random anime game.

[fast dew]

I mean

[tall echo]

I'm thinking people need to read more books

[proper barn]

Also DE has a very diverse group of designers.

Which helps.

[tall echo]

It. Kinda is very out of place

[fast dew]

The heirlooms are egregiously so

[proper barn]

We aren't gonna agree.

[fast dew]

.... I'm sorry but the heirlooms absolutely are

[proper barn]

I can't explain my point well enough

For what I wanna say.

[tall echo]

And a lot of frame designs in general, particularly fem bc of course

[proper barn]

But I'm just saying I think DEs designs are fine for reasons I expressed before where as I think even similar things in other games feel icky and out of place.

[proper barn]

I don't think this is even true but whatever I'm done with this conversation currently.

[fast dew]

I honestly think peak femme frame design is jade

[proper barn]

I like varied designs.

Of any kind.

[fast dew]

Ehhh

[proper barn]

We aren't gonna agree.

[tall echo]

I like varied designs. I don't like designs that are 50% rump

[fast dew]

I think its varied by the non sexual and the early designs.

[pine orchid]

maybe it's because with warframe theyre biometal robots, and there's a variety of body shapes? like we have wisp mesa and khora but also octavia

[fast dew]

Which are the minority.

[proper barn]

I can feel wanting to explain something.

That you won't agree with.

Like I just don't think you understand my point at all.

[fast dew]

Khora is literally cat lady with a whip.

Hildryin. As a whole.

[tall echo]

Correct

[proper barn]

I love Hyldrin.

[fast dew]

Wisp, we know what they are like

[proper barn]

Wisp is a great design.

Y'all are crazy I'm not doing this.

[tall echo]

Bruh.

[fast dew]

Who else. Oh, oraxia and the constant fetishisation of goth people from it. Which is unintentional but still something that happened

[pine orchid]

I think the point is like they're not all super designed to be breasting boobily or smth? and like... ppl will fetishize a lot of things that isn't necessarily designed to be fetishized, yknow?

[fast dew]

DE absolutely does shit for those fans.

[proper barn]

No?

[fast dew]

We literally see it with the new protos.

[proper barn]

Okay you're being dumb.

[tall echo]

Wisp, fem heirlooms

[fast dew]

...no.

They absolutely do.

Why do you think the consent conversations are so bad?

[proper barn]

Do you know what Proto I've seen people talk about the most?

I think the conversations are good.

[fast dew]

Why do you think they made "its not cheating" joke as if it was funny.

[proper barn]

What are we doing

[pine orchid]

yeah heirlooms are definitely built a particular way, but I thought we were talking about the design as a whole including base and prime

[tall echo]

Do tell

[fast dew]

What, Lyon? That doesn't matter

[proper barn]

Its Roathe.

[fast dew]

Roathe? Even worse

You wanna know why they made Roathe the way they did?

[proper barn]

I feel like you are talking past me and not trying to understand me.

[fast dew]

Do you know who writes the kimchats?

[hazy prism]

I feel Roathe has a substantial advantage in terms because of who he's voiced by

[proper barn]

I dislike that.

[tall echo]

Perhaps you're biased on account of hanging around in lore places?

[proper barn]

Don't do this thing where you wanna make a point and you like don't read what I said.

It makes me annoyed.

[tall echo]

The proto I've seen talked about the most is eleanor

[fast dew]

I've seen more about Lyon personally

Roathe is only spoken about a lot in lore spots because he has a lot of important information about the lore

[tall echo]

Ok but you primarily exist in old man kisser spaces so like

[fast dew]

Oh shush.

[stray herald]

so what was the language that adis was speaking

[proper barn]

When?

Probably sentient

Language. I think.

[hazy prism]

It's the language developed by the Sentient, no real info on it

[proper barn]

Okay thought so.

[hazy prism]

the Tau update will probably expand that, for now only Adis and Amar seem to use it consistently

[stray herald]

imagine we are gonna revitalize tau

[restive river]

Depends on what the Sentients did with it

[hazy prism]

I imagine that if they could, the sentient that remained in Tau probably tried to rebuild their society, but the destruction of the Xenoflora, it's hard to say

[stray herald]

Its even harder ti understand what the sentients’ goal is rn

[hazy prism]

The fact the Xenoflora, which gave sentients individuality helped made the sentients as a whole try and broker peace with the Orokin implies that before the discovery of the Xenoflora and indivduality, the higher tier sentients in control of the hivemind didn't want peace with the Orokin.

[fast dew]

Yeah. That's hunhow.

[hazy prism]

the sentient also did originally attack the Orokin first, so the Sentients left on Tau are probably still somewhat hostile

[fast dew]

Thank you Roathe.

[restive river]

And yet they left the rail open (until Hunhow destroyed it)

[hazy prism]

From a Roathe VM (which is still a biased perspective) Executor Tormis went and came back, a second flotilla of colony ships went to Tau and got destroyed, so it's also just possible Tormis did something, but more likely that's the point they realized that they can't let Orokin despoil Tau as well

They probably kept the rail intact so that they could stop the problem at the root, hence the whole invasion of the origin system

[restive river]

|| Roathe
Transcript: After the first Sentient invasion of the System and the disastrous Orokin riposte, a curious silence reigned.
Roathe
We had no word from our people stranded in Tau, and no way to know whether their signals were being jammed or they had been entirely obliterated.
Roathe
I found myself petitioned for opinions. As strategist, I was expected to comprehend the enemy.
Roathe
The Sentients could have destroyed the Solar Rail Terminus above Tau at any time, yet the Rail was still active.
Roathe
Why? What did they gain from leaving the gate open?
Roathe
Were they united in their aggression, or did some yet hope for peaceful coexistence? ||

[hazy prism]

maybe i'm making too many assumptions, but the simplest answer just seems before the Xenoflora, the sentients who were in charge just wanted to git rid of the Orokin Empire, hence they didn't disable the rail and they only started thinking this way after Executor Tormis left or when the Colony ships arrived

[wide halo]

So 1999 has their own versions of the Mario AND Wario bros.

never seen this before

[stiff fable]

yes lol

It's because Amir's VA is also Super Mario's new VA in the games

[wide halo]

oooooooooooooh

lil easter egg

(i always reset before i got this chat)

Rebb collecting VAs like pokemon stg

[fast dew]

Took a look at Albrecht's trivia section of the wiki and cringed harder than a baby with a lemon

"High ranking orokin" his blue form never looked like a high ranking orokin

[lean garden]

if by high ranking they mean "high on nestlewood"...

[fast dew]

I need to remove a whole section jfc.

[stiff fable]

that actually happened AFTER he voiced Amir

[fast dew]

"It is also revealed that after his encounter with The Indifference, Loid nursed him back to health and assisted in recovering his voice and eyes, as well as providing a completely new skin. His new appearance makes him look more like a regular human instead of a high rank Orokin."

A lot of this is true, but the new skin and appearance was NOT from the void incident. He still had that body. Roathe even says such. He recognised that voice but not that face. The pale skin is a new addition.

[wide halo]

i was referring to Roathe, Aoi, Eleanor and Arthur's VAs

[stiff fable]

fair enough

[wide halo]

also what about the guy they changed Stalkers VA to?

[stiff fable]

Gianni

AKA Duke Nukem 2022

[copper mountain]

AKA Gabriel Ultrakill

[lean garden]

MACHINE

[fast dew]

IS MUCKING GIANNI AGAIN???

[fast dew]

Fixed was gonna add images of the void scarring but that's too complicated for me :)

[hazy prism]

woah, what happen to lore

why we talking about Mr Gabriel

[stiff fable]

Gianni is Stalker

[fast dew]

He's my damn stalker

Thats a joke, but like

I genuinely cannot escape him

[hazy prism]

i get that

Jerma is my unescapeable famous person

[fast dew]

Bleah or whatever

https://tenor.com/view/byeah-yeah-jerma-jerma985-gta-gif-16194072094781404916

One mucking letter

[hazy prism]

i was there for the Byeah, and the jerma is mad saga

[fast dew]

And the

The rats thing

[hazy prism]

simpler times, that was 12 years ago

[wide halo]

Who gave Eleanor the mic?

[dark compass]

I can't believe jerma left enough cultural impact to have one of the tf2 playable cast members be named after him

[brittle siren]

Hm if Rell had not defected and stayed with the Tenno, how strong would you guys think he is? I mean even alone he can project his own “shadows” across the Origin Systems, though idk that is from Wally's power or himself

[pale cedar]

Rell didn’t defect

[fast dew]

He didn't defect.

He was abandoned.

[brittle siren]

I misinterpreted the word sorry

That's what I mean

[pale cedar]

And no, the shadows thing was Wally taking him over

Rells safeguard had failed

[brittle siren]

Oh

So how did he connect Lyon into the past

[opaque zenith]

He was cast out, and he can't "Project shadows" it was literaly him as a ghost in the chains quest

[fast dew]

Albrecht probably

[brittle siren]

How did Albrecht even know Rell

[pale cedar]

Albrecht would’ve been the first clued in on Void children with Void powers

[brittle siren]

But isn't Rell staying hidden until we free him from his Harrow body?

[pale cedar]

Rell wasn’t cast out straight away

[opaque zenith]

Imprisoned, not hidden intentionaly, if we asked Red Veil early they'd prob tell about Rell, just vaguely caling him "the muse" tho

[brittle siren]

Even then, how would he know Rell is the special one amongst hundreds of thousands of kids (tbh idk how many Tenno there are). If he did investigate, our Tenno is there too. Why and how he knows Rell is really not clear enough

[brittle siren]

But not in public. If we assume Red Veil is a cult during the Orokin era, they have to be extra hidden.

[opaque zenith]

Until proven wrong, Rell was the only autistic in the whole ship, somehow. Unique enough to draw attention

[opaque zenith]

Just saying they would tell the tenno if asked, just that nobody did ask

[brittle siren]

I hope Lyon would spoil more info about Rell

Also what is the highest relationship rank in KIM (not counting dating status)

[opaque zenith]

best friends, Rank 5, there's a "secret" R6 but it still says best friends

[brittle siren]

Oh for everyone or just the Triad?

The secret one I mean

[pale cedar]

Best friend and Lover are the exact same rank

[opaque zenith]

R6 is just extra chats that the devs added there to guarante that you get only at the end, so some have, others don't (like the roundtable)

[dark compass]

||like the pet rat one from Quincy?||

Oh I see

[brittle siren]

can you spoil me that (not really spoil since i did read most if not all of his dialogue but my memory suck)

[dark compass]

||he talks about finding one of lettie's rats running about and spends time with it doing random stuff, only to find out when returning the rat to lettie that its not one of hers and he was hanging out with a mall rat||

[brittle siren]

ah I remember now

[spark onyx]

Wait- is Wally a 4th dimensional being

[hollow siren]

Warframe only has two "dimensions": Reality and the Void

[spark onyx]

Not entirely true. That is not how reality works

[hollow siren]

This is a fictional world, it works how the authors want it to

[spark onyx]

Then you will never understand the man in the wall.

[hollow siren]

You're the one asking about his basics

[spark onyx]

He can see the tenno and others like pages on a flipbook. He can see past, present, and future. Hence why he is able to manipulate so much.

[restive river]

Not that type of dimension lol

[spark onyx]

This is also how he is able to access another timeline like 1999 and the main one simultaneously.

[spark onyx]

Ah, didn't realize he didn't understand

[restive river]

Iirc he’s more like a 5th maybe a 6th dimensional being

[hollow siren]

hence the quotations

[spark onyx]

Okay, mind if I get a little sciency?

[opaque zenith]

That's wrong, wally is currently tethered to the strands of time, because of Albrecht

[restive river]

Go ahead

[restive river]

Yeah, Wally can’t see our entire timeline he pops up around us as we “hold” a piece of him

Same as him speaking through the replica fingers

Or the murmur

[spark onyx]

So, think of how we see the 2nd dimension. We can manipulate like gods, omnipotence at it's finest. We would be worshipped.

Now think about the 1st dimension. Only length or width, nothing else there. You can't can you? It would be unfathomable.

That is how a 5th dimensional entity would see us, too far below themselves to even comprehend

[restive river]

If he got his finger he may have access to the entire timeline like that but he is limited atm

[spark onyx]

Ah yeah I forgot about that. So he is a 4th dimensional being, but Albrecht trapped him

[restive river]

I can see Wally being higher in terms of dimensions but he’s still presently limited

[restive river]

More like he accidentally mutilated and limited him

[opaque zenith]

Also he could just see where Albrecht and his finger(s?) is and grab it and be done for otherwise, so no omniscience

[restive river]

ibonacci: "So long as the Indifference is missing a digit, it is confined to the strands of Khra. Don't ask; your tiny mind would likely pop under the strain of understanding. This limitation is our one hope."

Loid: "Do not patronise the Tenno, fish. The strands of Khra are merely Void-renderings of the chains of cause and effect. Conceptually embodied timelines, if you will."

[restive river]

In theory he could see through his fingers but the replicas may complicate it as well as who knows what else

He’s shown to be able to speak through and manipulate any piece of himself but that’s about it

And just cause he can see, speak and manipulate through it doesn’t mean he can access it

[opaque zenith]

In theory he was never real till Albrecht "made it real", since he would see that he couldn't see all the timeline past a point in time. ||That's why the devil has a point, actually||

[opaque zenith]

Little confusing wording but couldn't think of other way to say it

[lean garden]

scrolling back up to this, while I dont disagree that Wally might be a smidgen 4th dimensionish, 1999 isnt another timeline

[restive river]

How did i miss that lmao

[lean garden]

I say a smidgen, because that goober doesnt seem to be able to see the whole river of time

I'd even dare say that its less 4th dimensional than the Unum

who can actually see a crap ton of the river

[opaque zenith]

Also missed it, so I'll just add that DE officially said that the coda "wait it out" to the concert and there's Flare

[restive river]

He can maybe travel along it, since he keeps following Albrecht
||But he may only be able to follow if we carve the path-||

[lean garden]

thats what Im thinking

[restive river]

And everything else that says it’s the true past

[lean garden]

its presence in other places is not a feat of itself, its just because some moron went ahead and gave it a path to follow

so when eleanor reached out and found wally, its not a past wally, thats the damn thing chasing albrecht

[restive river]

Albrecht or Us

[lean garden]

well, aside from duviri, its mostly albrecht

[restive river]

I meant the path

[lean garden]

yea albrecht

[restive river]

For 1999?

It doesn’t seem to reach him till we do

And we hold a piece of him constantly

[lean garden]

it doesnt matter when wally reaches albrecht

it only matters that the genius basically gave him a path to 1999

[restive river]

Yeah, he is the only reason we went anyway

He’s more so after Albrecht than us anyway

[opaque zenith]

I would said after the scholars landing (dis)appareance was when the fingers and bleeding Earth started but there's no timeline for the lost islands so nvm, just gonna share in case anyone have a similar though

[restive river]

It helps that Duviri is just in the void

[humble sierra]

Duviri is also affected by things happening in the Origin System, I think the Rain of Chains is implied to have happened because of the Operator doing Chains of Harrow

[tall echo]

More specifically affected by the operator's experiences

[candid obsidian]

After ~3 weeks-ish I made it to the New War. And it was a mistake. So apparently the name (as in voice) I choose for Natah/Margulis/Lotus is permanent and only appearance can be changed and I'm struggling and despairing at who fits and who she really feels like and need some feedback on my understanding so far since I definitely still don't know that much. Current quick version of my understanding:

Natah: I don't think that one fits with her particularly. Yes, it's who she originally was. But she gave it up and it was he own free choice to abandon the name. That was when she chose not to destroy the Tenno and instead baceme Margulis who took care of them, betraying her own father Hunhow in doing so?

Margulis: The version she was when she was with the Orokin (the makers?). She was a scientist for them and worked with the Tenno on the Zariman? My understanding is that she did this because she liked children and chose to take care of them? Taking the position of a caregiver and mother. The children from what I understood all lost their parents? And she enjoyed it and bloomed with it. She even neglected her (completely awful) romantic partner giving more time and love to the children? She also was a very compassionate, caring and sensible person. She cared about the children and didn't want them to be used as tools of war and have them be used for steering the warframes for the Orokin.

Lotus: Her 3rd version and the one I'm least sure about if I'm correct with my understanding. When she went against the Orokin Leaders' choice to use the children as tools of war she got sentenced to death, but instead also got sealed in Lua with the children? The children instead of being used as tools of war were locked in a dream where they forgot the trauma from the void, where they didn't have to be used as tools for the war of masters (the Orokin)? And she was in what way sealed up??? I really don't know? But from my understanding the children and their dream also made her into the Lotus? They were the heroes as Tenno in the dream forgetting all of the happenings, and she was their support and command center? But she also still kept a tiny piece of her past versions (really tiny for Natah, probably the motherly role from Margulis was kept a bit more?).

[ocean geyser]

Lotus was the one name she actually chose for herself
Let her be Lotus

[pale cedar]

Choice doesn’t matter at all anyway she accepts all 3

[restive river]

Natah is who she used to be
Margulis is who she was programmed and forced to be like
Lotus is the closest thing to an identity of her own

[restive river]

Also this
It’s less so picking which identity is her true one and which one do you want to lead the other two

Strength, Compassion or a balance of the two

[north jolt]

What do you think the tax rate In the Orokin empire was?

[restive river]

The Orokin themselves seemed beyond money

Idk enough about taxes or how everything would have changed for civilians

Since they aren’t limited to a single planet

[north jolt]

I like to think that even if they didn't need it they probably taxed regular citizens anyways for shts and giggles

[restive river]

Maybe lmao

Sounds like another awful thing they’d do

[drowsy saddle]

0% until they need something from you, then it's 100%

[opaque zenith]

Surprisingly, None? All were slaves or/and Orokin property. ||Roathe literaly steals stuff cause "It was his by right anyway"|| Corpus tho, there's a discussion value

[north jolt]

I think you are completely right

[drowsy saddle]

Like i said, 0% until they need/want something

[thick yacht]

Don’t need money when you are the masters of mankind

[reef radish]

Do we know Loid's last name?

[silk atlas]

No

[swift gyro]

Guys, who were the warframe that destroyed things or caused problems to everyone?

[strange turtle]

What do you mean?

Like, the ones who rebelled?

[pale cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/do-you-have-the-slightest-idea-how-little-that-narrows-it-down-batman-beyond-blight-derek-powers-gif-8836710093214428393

[swift gyro]

i meant, who must caused troubles that bothered everyone nearby?

[pale cedar]

There’s the Rhino that was eating people

frames prior to Tenno were a problem that caused issues

[swift gyro]

Rhino? i really though it was grandel who did that, or he did it too?

[pale cedar]

Rhino did it first

[swift gyro]

bcs they all went berseker after being made?

[dark compass]

grendel did it in a comedically exagerrated way

[pale cedar]

Infested madness

[dark compass]

rhino was stuffing meat in his mouth

[swift gyro]

oh okay, that explains why i dreamed of rhino eating my family, i still dont play with him even nowdays.

[pale cedar]

Grendel ate Avantus much later in the timeline

[dark compass]

one eats you whole, another rips you apart

[pale cedar]

Oh wait was it Avantus or Karrish

[swift gyro]

the infestation madness occured after they were complete?

[pale cedar]

Grendel ate one of the 2

[swift gyro]

warframe is really good if you want to make a horror movie ngl.

[opaque zenith]

Karrish, Avantus is the death by grineer one

[pale cedar]

Warframe has always been a horror movie

Just not for you

[swift gyro]

just not until i decided to know more about the lore..

[dark compass]

the grendel prime trailer shows it well

[pale cedar]

Knew I was missing something when I said Avantus

Had one in my mind brain picked another

[opaque zenith]

Both have a "lower cast revolt" theme, kinda

[pale cedar]

Just think about how it feels to be a regular soldier watching your comrades getting eaten

Tbh Grineer might be used to it considering they also eat their brothers and sisters

[loud oriole]

grineer soldiers watching a super fast cat-like warframe fly around the area clawing everything in sight whilst also constantly roaring and screaming.

[dark compass]

https://tenor.com/view/grendel-grendal-prime-warframe-orange-creamsicle-hello-chat-gif-8335281156347721127

[swift gyro]

not the kinda i want to see even in war.. or anywhere tbh.

[opaque zenith]

They're not uncivilized though, they cook first

[pale cedar]

Explains why Grendel throws up after

[eager briar]

Is nihil an executor or just closely related to them?

[pale cedar]

No, Executioner

[stiff beacon]

Outside of him being an executioner no concrete info only speculation

And gara primes trailer

[pale cedar]

Nihil would’ve just been the person who glassed people as a punishment based on what the 7 decided

[opaque zenith]

Nihil not included officially

[strange turtle]

Closely related, given he was the main manager/executioner for Glassing and it’s use in making cephalons, plus his presence at a meeting of the Seven and whoever else was there for the Gara trailer

[pale cedar]

His 7 status is a retcon

[stiff beacon]

It wasn't even established in the first place

[drowsy saddle]

"we grant you a seat on the Seven but not the rank of Seven"

[pale cedar]

It was via KIM

The KIM message was changed after Old Peace released

[opaque zenith]

Technically there was a single KIM with Amir, literally only that, but yeah a recton even if by one single text

One word removed, that's the retcon

[stiff fable]

I get to remind people that the writer behind the KIMs is an outside contractor, so "Executor Nihil" was probably someone else confusing "Executor" and "executioner"

so, it's not a retcon but correcting an error

[pale cedar]

Easy mistake to make

[proper barn]

Even if it is a retcon retcons are fine.

[mint crystal]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/xp3y7To8Lu

You guys see this reddit post?

[glacial bough]

People are putting way too much stock into Roathe's ramblings

[silk atlas]

People put too much stock in to the wrong ramblings, more like. Like, we already had the whole "Lotus 'betrays' us and turns evil" stint.

[drowsy saddle]

We really need to get used to the idea of the unreliable narrator

[silk atlas]

This isn't even "unreliable" this is just him being a jerk for no reason

[crude robin]

is the stalker hating on the tenno because a tenno used him during night of drums to kills his fellow dax? like hunhow in second dream saying "you still hate them, you still hate yourself", like there is nothing saying that he wan't used as a warframe by some tenno that night right?

Sitting in the back of his mind watching taken aback by surprise watching as his world colabses by his hands, at some point he pushed the operator out like Arthur on his first encounter with the drifter, but he was outnumbered then Jade appears to save him...

if we ever get a naga drums night flashback it has to be through his eyes

like there are speculation around going years back that stalker is a warframe that killed his tenno... maybe he did that night

[pale cedar]

We didn’t use him at all

He hates us cuz we killed the Orokin

[silk atlas]

He hates the Tenno because they destroyed the Empire, something he was still incredibly loyal to even after being abused by the Empire and led on that he might get what he wanted if he just kept with it.

Even the Tenno weren't immune to the propaganda of the Orokin

[crude robin]

no but I mean, his codex entry states he was there taht night, you have a bunch of tenno and a warframe, it's crazy to assube he wasn't used or that no tenno tryed to tranference into him that night

[pale cedar]

Nothing suggests he killed his Tenno as he didn’t even know Tenno existed till TSD

[crude robin]

years pased and his mind is clearly corrupted by infestation, he didn't remeber jade till he met her again

[sly ibex]

He was never used by a Tenno, from what we can gather from all we've seen.

[pale cedar]

He witnessed us kill the Orokin in frames never saw the Tenno children

It is something he only learned about in TSD

[sly ibex]

What quest have you gotten up to, Error?

[crude robin]

the old peace, where the distiction between tenno and warframe is very clear to every grineer in the base

[sly ibex]

Have you done Jade Shadows?

[crude robin]

yes, and it's all very vague on purepose

[sly ibex]

Jade stopped a Tenno from killing Stalker at that time.

[silk atlas]

There hasn't been a single mention of him having a Tenno before, and it's not like it'd be the first time we would've been shown a Warframe trying to reject having a Tenno even if we are to just assume that a Tenno would be crazy enough to hop into Stalker anyway.

[sly ibex]

And likely after the ||treaty ended and we went into stasis (which happened right after the end of Old Peace),|| the Tenno were turned into myth again by the Orokin, I'm pretty sure.

[crude robin]

and we know nothing about what happened before that instant, if a tenno wanted to enter the stalker and the stalker pushes like arthur did and kills the tenno all the tenno arround would want to kill the stalker

[pale cedar]

We’re still a myth in Old Peace

There’s units who still don’t think we are real

[sly ibex]

True, but there are also a lot who know we aren't.

[sly ibex]

It's possible a Tenno did at some point, but I haven't seen anything to indicate it was the case.

[silk atlas]

You're assuming that that would've been what happened in the first place instead of Stalker just... not having a Tenno in the first place.

Nor a Tenno trying to Transference into him.

[crude robin]

not all warframes had tenno, because warframe were created as individual soldiers taht went slowly mad beacuse of the infestation latter, then the tenno appeared and seemed able to control infested maddened warframes, like Ballas says in the sacrifice

not all warframes in the lore had a tenno, but every single tenno had a warframe to control, because warframes are weapons.

in a room full of tenno wanting to kill everything, at least one tenno will try to use transference on an unused warframe

[silk atlas]

If every Tenno had a Warframe then why would they bother going into a different one instead of just using the one they had?

That they know would work no less

[pale cedar]

Why transfer into Stalker when they already had a perfectly good frame?

[silk atlas]

They wouldn't want to risk being kicked out of the frame even if they did have the idea of Transfering into Stalker.

[pale cedar]

Plus who says Stalker would even let them in?

They can kick us out

[crude robin]

why did our operator walk all that way to uriel and did not use excal? to switch weapons, I'd take a stalker over trinity everyday if I wanted to kill stuff

or to disable a possible threat, you don't want rogue warframe

[ashen pulsar]

because excal was killed

[silk atlas]

The Uriel wasn't a Warframe that was actively hostile towards you, for one.

[ashen pulsar]

destroyed

we nearly were too but adis saved us

[pale cedar]

Stalker literally just witnessed us kill his only chance why would he let us in?

[ashen pulsar]

that's why most people dont have excal prime in-lore, we lost it in the hunhullus fight

[silk atlas]

Like, the whole Umbra stuff should give you plenty of reason to show that a Warframe that doesn't want to be controlled is not gonna be something you'd take a gamble on when you're in an active conflict.

The Tenno was in immediate danger just from crafting it

[pale cedar]

Hell Stalkers quest also had info about Jade putting her Operator to sleep

[thick yacht]

Sentients causing issues as usual

Whoever created them should’ve been sentenced to Jade Light for nearly leading the Orokin to ruin

[ashen pulsar]

in fact, he was sympathetic. You were probably extremely compatible, considering you were both filled with hatred for the orokin

[ashen pulsar]

they deserved to be led to ruin tho

[thick yacht]

I disagree

[ashen pulsar]

wth

is this daklo?

[crude robin]

half of my discourse till now was about this cool posibility

[thick yacht]

I believe the Orokin were better than what came after

The system is a mess

Degenerate Grineer and corpus enslaving everyone and genociding settlements

[ashen pulsar]

that doesn’t mean the orokin empire wasn’t horrible

[crude robin]

the system we know now is the result of a colapses dictatorship, look at our world now it's simply what happens, between capitalistic democracies and military regimes everything in warfrmae is pretty accurate if anything

[ashen pulsar]

also, one of the major reasons the grineer are how they are is because of the orokin controlling them

[silk atlas]

Given what we know about Transference and Warframes, I just don't see it as plausible

[thick yacht]

I do not nor ever have denied the Empire had severe faults that needed to be addressed immediately and decisively, but we as the Tenno abandoned the Seven Principles and took up the sword against our leaders

That was not the way it needed to happen

[fast dew]

Who do you think causes that btw.

Who do you think made the grineer? And guess who's STILL making the grineer do this?

Just because the top layer looks good, doesn't mean the inside isn't rotten.

[crude robin]

the dirfter did sucessfuly transfer into arthur for a few seconds before he kicked him out, arthur pushed back because he was fully aware, we don't know how a warframe would react to that, umbra is super traumatised, what if the staker gained new indipendence thanks to the trauma we gave him?

we don't know how it feels to be a warframe being controlled, a half backed infested brain with no real prior trauma

[thick yacht]

Even without the Grineer Queens, degenerates like Vey Hek and Vor still are Grineer through and through and believe in “Grineer supremacy”.

The Queens succumbed to the Grineer, not the other way around

[crude robin]

beacuse till that night the staker was just that a infested puppet for all we know, and till he met jade that night was all he remebered

[fast dew]

The orokin actively used people as skin suits for a holiday, killed children, actively ruined over the whole sol system and wanted to ruin another one, ruined countless families, abused a pregnant woman, what else?

[fast dew]

... guess who made them. Guess who the grineer queens are?

Orokin. The grineer queens are orokin.

[fast dew]

Don't forget slavery too

Just because "they did good art" doesn't resolve them of their crimes.

[crude robin]

pretty sure Dagath's hole was used as a braceled for that oversized right hand of theirs

[fast dew]

This... reads very differently.

I can compare the orokin to real world people if you want

[crude robin]

oh we as the humanity do much worse than anything DE can immagine I'm sure of that, but this chat isn't for world politics

[thick yacht]

Nor do their crimes justify their complete and total genocide. I believe the rot could’ve been purged, the Empire restored, the Orokin redeemed. The Night and the Collapse turned death by a thousand cuts that could’ve healed into a flaying that exposed humanity to the ruin it sees now

[fast dew]

Yes it absolutely did. And it wasn't genocide.

What "rot"? It was the very nature of the caste to be like that!

Continuity, the ONE thing that almost ALL orokin did, featured kidnapping and killing children.

[silk atlas]

My thing with this whole thing is that until the Night, he still seemed to have much of his own awareness even without the trauma of the collapse that would've come, which I theorize is because of him wanting to save Jade and himself from being Warframes. The Tenno betraying the Orokin would just pile that on top.

[fast dew]

It was in their culture to do so!

They revelled in what they did.

[thick yacht]

It was genocide, and in doing so we proved to be no better than the ones we sought to get rid of, if anything we vindicated Ballas when called us void devils, for the path to Hell is paved with good intentions

[fast dew]

Ehhh.

Genocide means specifically targeting someone because of their uh. Genes. The orokin were not a seperate race.

They were in fact. Humans.

Just blue.

[crude robin]

There is no mention of him as a warframe before that night and we all know how infestation messes with your mind and memories, stalker is no trusty source

[pale cedar]

Hey, it wasn’t Genocide it was Classicide

[ocean geyser]

Genocide can be focused around a culture too yk

[fast dew]

"The legal term “genocide” refers to certain acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group"

Im sorry but the orokin do not fall into any of these categories, with maybe the exception of religion. Which even then, is patchy.

And they were not killed for the sake of eradicating their culture.

[pale cedar]

We probably wasn’t even thinking about the Vain Faith at the time

[silk atlas]

Him being a Warframe had to have been before the Night. How long from then until the Night we don't know but that's just basic order of events. And his memory being screwed with due to the Infestation doesn't change that he in some part has the ability to act out on his own.

(Jade's Promise)

[fast dew]

High chance we didnt even know of the vain faith.

[silk atlas]

It's also weird because Jade, after being Warframe'd, did remember who Stalker (Sorren) was and that's why she went to save him from being killed by the Tenno.

[pale cedar]

We seemingly only learned about it via Ballas talking to Hunhow

[fast dew]

This is pissing me off, where's my Albrecht playlist

[thick yacht]

Damn where’s the other one

[fast dew]

The issue with calling it genocide is that

1. We did not kill them based on the vain faith
2. They are not a ethnic, racial or national group.

You or I can become an orokin through a few ways, which eliminates it being an ethnic or racial group (you can't marry in to an native family and suddenly become a native yourself) they are not based around a nation as well.

"The path to hell is paved with good intentions" you had the Roathe chat before you actually looked at the orokin, didnt you.

[ashen pulsar]

the orokin themselves are the rot. purging them was exactly what we did. By no means are the tenno good people, but what we did wasn’t wrong.

[fast dew]

Also, it wasn't even total "genocide" we literally have a whole orokin family still living

[restive river]

It was a classicide

[ashen pulsar]

it was a revolution. our real idiocy was in not assisting a rebuilding afterwards.

[fast dew]

We have what, 7? 8? Confirmed alive after the night of the naga drums

[restive river]

Mother, Father, Son, Daughter, Grandmother and Albrecht

[pale cedar]

11 iirc

[thick yacht]

And the system is likely worse off for it, you can’t seriously tell me the likes of Parvos and Nef Anyo are superior

[restive river]

Then Ballas, Nihil if you count him since he was a cephalon

[fast dew]

Guess who was with the orokin btw

[thick yacht]

Speaking of Nef, it will never not be funny to me how quickly Nef up and ran as soon as he learned Ballas was coming

Actually hilarious to me.

[fast dew]

Eh.

Funny to me i know who made your banner too lol

[restive river]

The thing is, while yes the system was thrown into a degree of chaos that chaos is better than the Orokin Empire as a whole

[pale cedar]

Nah he only ran after Parvos gave him emotional damage

[thick yacht]

I love whoever did it

They have my eternal thanks

[restive river]

The Orokin absolutely had what happened to them coming lol

[thick yacht]

Nef just likes running

[restive river]

Centuries of their atrocities and brutalities caught up to them

[thick yacht]

Ultimate coward of a man

[fast dew]

They're an avid orokin hater, they only did that for archive purposes anyways

Help me do some maths chat

[thick yacht]

🗿 math

[fast dew]

Yes unfortunately the lore does require math.

[thick yacht]

That’s where you lose me I can’t do math

[ashen pulsar]

the grineer are a problem because of the orokin, the corpus always existed and would have grown powerful regardless of the collapse because they literally worked with the orokin

[thick yacht]

Math is hard

[lilac aspen]

I’m a limbo mathematician
I do calculations and cause myself to tear apart from the resulting errors

[restive river]

The Grineer were just another storm brewing

[fast dew]

Do we know how long the first segment of the old war was?

This is important to my calculations to how old Loid is dw

[restive river]

You don’t have a slave class and not expect them to want to rise up
The unfortunate bit is they immediately got ruled by another set of Orokin lol

[restive river]

No

[thick yacht]

Grineer are also now doing genocide

[fast dew]

No lol

They are not.

What group of people are they killing?

[thick yacht]

It is literally said in the lore they do genocide

[ashen pulsar]

Also, they are still under orokin control

[thick yacht]

Literally anyone who isn’t a Grineer

[restive river]

The Grineer just want control over the system and don’t care who they hurt, they aren’t going after any specific groups afaik

[thick yacht]

They wage all out brutality

[fast dew]

Yeah okay, source?

Or is it just "the game"

Because what they are doing is fundamentally not genocide.

[restive river]

They’re more so just power hungry and want control

[drowsy saddle]

considering the amount of white gold decore most tenno have, fairly sure we appropriated Orokin drip

[restive river]

And as already stated, lead by an Orokin lmao

[fast dew]

Again, it needs to be done with the intent of eradicating a specific group of people.

[thick yacht]

“They are units acting on ultimate xenophobia, fueled by genetic madness, and a burning hatred of anything and anyone not like themselves and have absolute loyalty, not dissimilar from religious fanaticism, to their Queens, although very few have actually been granted the permission to see them. In the end, should they succeed, there will only be Grineer left alive in the Origin System”

Not to mention their extreme hyper violence

[fast dew]

Xenophobia is not genocide what

[ashen pulsar]

where does it say genocide

[fast dew]

How did you correlate those two 😭

[restive river]

That’s like saying having a fancy house is appropriating billionaire culture lol

[fast dew]

Also. THEY'RE LEAD BY OROKIN

[thick yacht]

“There will only be Grineer left alive in the origin system”

[drowsy saddle]

also isn't the casus belli of the old war (post old peace) was that the orokin needed something to fight? and that they refused to accept even the theoretical threat of the sentients

[fast dew]

Grineer are humans.

Did you know that? They're humans.

[drowsy saddle]

but they don't have culture, at least modern ones, pre 1900 i'd agree

[sly ibex]

The Grineer did commit genocide against Baro's people. Wiped them all out, with him being the only survivor because he was hidden by his mother, as I recall.

[thick yacht]

Grineer specifically refers to the lab grown clone soldiers serving the twin queens

[fast dew]

... was that not the orokin

[sly ibex]

No, because it was while the Tenno were in cryo, so it was after the fall.

[fast dew]

Yeah. They're still human. Ordered to do this, by orokin.

[restive river]

I mean they were lead by an Orokin so by technicality-

[restive river]

The two Orokin queens

[pale cedar]

Warframe players love forgetting the Queens are Orokin

[restive river]

The Grineer are just the last major remnant of the Orokin utilizing the slave power they had in a full military force

[drowsy saddle]

i wonder if the reason Albrecht went to fr*nce was due to the revolution.... i wonder if there's parallels

[restive river]

It’s just Orokin but less due to lack of tech, numbers and knowledge

[thick yacht]

He went in 1899

[fast dew]

The only family of orokin that survived are the entrati, who even then, lowkey should've died before they redeemed themselves

[thick yacht]

That is 110 years after the rebellion

[fast dew]

... the tenno rebellion.

And we still do not know the time for sure.

[ashen pulsar]

in a way, they’re grineer as well. because grineer isn’t a defining trait of a person. grineer aren’t evil by default.

[thick yacht]

It said 1899 on the site itself before DE removed it and put “XX99”

[dark compass]

He went to France because he wanted to send Roathe to the worst place he could think of

[thick yacht]

No of course not

[fast dew]

Yeah. That doesn't mean shit.

[thick yacht]

There are good Grineer, look at Kahl

[restive river]

Technically whatever family the Grineer queens belonged to too but we cut that family in half sooo

[drowsy saddle]

fr fr, a fate worse than death

[thick yacht]

Kahl, Steel Meridian

They arefine people

[drowsy saddle]

also weren't the grineer queens outcasts due to being twins

[pale cedar]

The only good Grineer are ones the Queens can’t control

[fast dew]

Removed content isn't something we use as definitive proof of anything.

[restive river]

Crazy how when the Grineer are separated from the Orokin they’re not terrible-

[ashen pulsar]

I just wanna mention that he saves so many grineer and yknow what they don’t do? immediately start trying to kill corpus or humans that are trapped as well.

[drowsy saddle]

i mean Valdur's a nice guy imo

[restive river]

Iirc we can point to 1899 being the likely date due to other factors but it’s not specifically stated other than it has to be a 99

[restive river]

I mostly meant broadly but yeah, he shows that the Grineer had a strong sense of loyalty back then which is probably their most admirable trait?

[fast dew]

This is a valid way to say why, but i wouldn't say it definitively in case there's more information to come out

[drowsy saddle]

feels like DE wanted the Triad to be 1899 but the vibes of 1799

[fast dew]

Well, thats the best part of a cathedral. Shit can be older than the current century its in

[restive river]

Yeah ofc, just cause we can narrow it down doesn’t mean we have the definitive date being stated lol

[drowsy saddle]

-# one could say its because no one wants a malfunctioning tool

[restive river]

Funny cause their loyalty went beyond their servitude to the Orokin lol