lore-discussion

[hazy prism]

not necessarily, some none primes existed before as well, we see Octavia in her comic, and Lavos since he only primed after saving his master

[proven spire]

yes it's complicated

cases like uriel for example

[ashen pulsar]

there were less prime than non prime frames afaik

[proven spire]

roathe's entire army turned into non prime uriels

[ashen pulsar]

it would make more sense too

[grizzled patrol]

still wondering about this tho

[proven spire]

frames like the starter 3 and the other oldframe warframes

the ones from the cinematic trailers lol

where we see them fighting the dax and the orokin era grineer

[tall echo]

I don't

Do you have reading comprehension

[ashen pulsar]

primes are upgraded frames, not necessarily the original version

[proven spire]

i could ask you the same thing, have you read my other messages

[tall echo]

Have you read the leverians

[proven spire]

some non primes came after the primes

[tall echo]

Most have the frames actively working FOR the empire

[wintry glacier]

Messgae with roathe:

[ashen pulsar]

Margulis: "I will not have them accuse you of treason. If they come for you, they will have to go through me."

she can protect us much better if we know nothing and dont try to speak out

[proven spire]

i never said that all of the stories were part of it

[ashen pulsar]

primes are upgraded frames, not necessarily the original version

[hazy prism]

hey that's my soon to be boyfriend

[tall echo]

.

[wintry glacier]

you chose to click on it

[proven spire]

what about the weapons

[wintry glacier]

emoticons dont work 🙁

[hazy prism]

same as the primes, just upgrades , not necessarily the original

[tall echo]

/shrug

[proven spire]

so you just assumed lmao my mistake was not adding some

[wintry glacier]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ashen pulsar]

most of the current non-primes are inferior recreations from modern day. However some primes were upgrades of tenno weapons

"This master blade is the heavier, oversized and far more lethal version of the signature weapon of an extinct order of Tenno assassins." - Karyst Prime's description

[tall echo]

Bad phrasing causing misunderstanding

[wintry glacier]

alt + 01455 for the top line

[proven spire]

my entire point was the non primes were created to hunt down and fight the remaining orokin

[ashen pulsar]

not true

[strange plinth]

barring a few exceptions, all primes and non-primes were active during the empire

[tall echo]

All frames are made by the orokin

[proven spire]

please see the burston's description

like i said, it's a complicated situation

[ashen pulsar]

ah mb

[proven spire]

everything in the old peace is primed except for uriel lol

[strange plinth]

the Prime Vanguard and the Uriels

[ashen pulsar]

"Once thought lost to the ages, attempts to reengineer the Burston Prime never fully replicated this weapon's power and agility." in other words, recreating the burston prime properly without the exact orokin blueprints is impossible

[proven spire]

maybe Vor needed an Ascaris Prime to get the job done

not that yee yeeass non prime ascaris

[hazy prism]

regular ascaris was kicking our ass so, tbh glad that he didn't have that

[ashen pulsar]

that isnt much, and even there we had vinquibus

vinquibus prime existed

[proven spire]

the vinquibus is probably made from uriel's flesh like how the skiajati is from umbra's flesh

so when the army of uriel's emerged they all had matching vinquibuses 😂

[hazy prism]

vinquibus is cool cause it makes sense if you want to arm large number soldiers who are powerful ranged and melee fighters, you would make a single weapon that can be both

[ashen pulsar]

tactically cool but gun people probably had a seizure seeing it

[proven spire]

maybe the vinquibus that excalibur prime was using is from the condemned uriel

[ashen pulsar]

im not one of em so I can just say its badass

and not think about it

[strange plinth]

excal prime didn't have one. it was the memory being messed up because of the "too far" flash

[tall echo]

Why

[ashen pulsar]

oh was that why

[grizzled patrol]

Did Albrecht actually want the tenno to let the bomb explode or did he want them to disobey him and save hollvania? If the explosion was needed to exit the time loop then how does Albrecht exit if the drifter rewinded?

[mystic lynx]

Does the commander/general dude talking to us in perita have a name?

[strange plinth]

valdur??

[tall echo]

...yes

[proven spire]

posting this again

[thick yacht]

1999 is a separate time bubble no?

[strange plinth]

he was playing up the villain to get us to disobey, yea
explosion still happened, even if the drifter rewound

[proven spire]

i think we are simply another means to an end

[tall echo]

No

[strange plinth]

real past

[thick yacht]

But it’s before the main timeline

[tall echo]

Yes?

[grizzled patrol]

man i love entrati too much

[proven spire]

it's part of the main timeline just in the year 1999

[thick yacht]

This doesn’t make sense

[tall echo]

Have you heard of time travel

[ashen pulsar]

ig the logistics of turning a barrel into a longsword blade and the practicality of a gun that turns into a full fledged sword

[tall echo]

1999 is the direct past of our timeline

[thick yacht]

Why is the On-Lyne stadium above earth?

You can see the Orokin altered moon

[tall echo]

They waited

[hazy prism]

honestly, they never explained that

[grizzled patrol]

as a side note, did they ever touch on how the kim system works and stuff anywhere? Felt like the pom 2 was kinda thrust on me but i have like no idea how it works

[ashen pulsar]

they escaped the time loop and waited

[proven spire]

eternalism, past present and future all exist at the same time

[tall echo]

Bc it's in the present

[ashen pulsar]

like flare

[tall echo]

They did

The coda genuinely just wait until the present

[hazy prism]

wait what so the stadium was in orbit the entire time?

[proven spire]

conceptual embodiment, when you stare at the void it stares back and makes it real

[ashen pulsar]

how far away do you have to go to escape the time loop

[tall echo]

It's a bayonet rifle

[tall echo]

Nowhere, time continues past the loop

[ashen pulsar]

A bayonet is a gun with a knife taped on

[tall echo]

Yes

[proven spire]

maybe check the 1999 patch notes

[ashen pulsar]

this is a gun thats entire barrel is a blade

[tall echo]

Bayonet is just the attachment

[thick yacht]

So they waited from 1999 all the way up until now to fight us

[tall echo]

Futuristic bayonet rifle, same concept

[thick yacht]

And somehow avoided detection the entire time

[strange plinth]

its a single stadium in earth's orbit
yea.

[tall echo]

No they just don't let anything close

[proven spire]

eternalism, the past present and future all exist at once and you can travel between them like different worlds but it's all still one singular line

[ashen pulsar]

wdym

[thick yacht]

You’d think the Orokin would notice a giant infested mass and be like “huh, why is that there?”

[tall echo]

Exactly what I said, time keeps going despite the loop

[ashen pulsar]

but if they simply waited in the loop they'd never go anywhere, same as flare.

[proven spire]

the infestation from 1999 is the same infestation in present day

[tall echo]

You're. You're not understanding it

[ashen pulsar]

I can tell

[proven spire]

the hivemind travels because of eternalism where past present and future all exist at once

[tall echo]

Even though we loop, time keeps going past y2k, the loops don't imprison time

[ashen pulsar]

they imprison everything in the loop tho

[tall echo]

Nope

[ashen pulsar]

wait what is the loop then

[silk atlas]

Time still moves forward after the loop. Just that changes we make inside it can still alter it.

Hence why Temple and Coda aren't nuked off the face of the Earth

[proven spire]

time doesn't stop it keeps going 😂

[pine orchid]

Are you meaning to ask how can the coda escape the loop if the hex and everyone else gets effectively reset when we loop?

[silk atlas]

It's like a loop in a rollercoaster... if you could somehow choose to stay in the loop constantly. The track after the loop doesn't just vanish and not go anywhere.

[ashen pulsar]

as in, eventually the loop ends?

[proven spire]

the infested hivemind travels because of eternalism where past present and future all exist at once

[tall echo]

It's like a street roundabout

[proven spire]

this is the third time i'm saying this

[tall echo]

Unimportant

[ashen pulsar]

what is the relevance of this to the topic

[proven spire]

they're confused as to why the coda space ball is in present day

[strange plinth]

it isn't jumping into the future, its sitting there the whole time

[tall echo]

And it's not because of eternalism

[silk atlas]

The loop doesn't end (as far as we know). It's still happening even if we move "forward" in the timeline. There's stuff going on in the loop, and there's the stuff that's still after the loop.

[ashen pulsar]

I assumed this was like a rollercoaster where the tracks got locked into one loop. you can't get off, and even if the tracks afterwards exist, you can't get on.

[proven spire]

the infested is there in 1999 and the infested is there in present day, the hivemind just can see both because well it's a hivemind

[tall echo]

Ok but that's not why the coda are in the present

[grizzled patrol]

This feels a bit confusing. It mentions that the nuke was the first of many to eliminate techrot which eventually leads to the rise of the Orokin I assume and the planet being messed up leading to all the events including opening the void. But in the last message it talks about the nuke going off meaning resulting in NO knackered Earth leading to none of the events including the void trip. This feels contradictory no?

And as a side note, where is Albrecht playing the villain being mentioned here? Or is it in another KIM conversation somewhere else?

[proven spire]

there's also the zariman portal which is uhh a product of eternalism

[silk atlas]

Okay then that was a bad analogy. Point is, time is still moving forward after the part of time that is still in the loop.

[tall echo]

Infestation sees all of time at once but it doesn't exist in all of time the same way

[strange plinth]

hex finale is where the 'playing up the villain' bit comes from

[proven spire]

knackered earth is the radiation wars

[tall echo]

The "nuke" in the quest is a reactor meltdown, the radiation wars are actual bombs

[proven spire]

the hivemind does

[ashen pulsar]

what is the loop then, if you can just keep going

[pine orchid]

maybe it's more like... if a roller coaster at the very end of the loop you jump to another identical cart that's just started the loop?

[silk atlas]

Something sectioned off that you can still interact with that affects the future.

[tall echo]

Ok. PHYSICALLY the infestation has to obey the normal flow of time

[pine orchid]

so there's still the cart that exits the loop but you are continuously jumping from the end to the beginning of the loop

[tall echo]

???

[ashen pulsar]

interesting. but what's in the car that exits, then?

[proven spire]

maybe the hivemind just creates the 1999 coda in present day

[ashen pulsar]

and how do people stay on the exiting cart

[silk atlas]

We know from a Reddit QnA that the Coda just waited.

[strange plinth]

it doesn't. the coda sit there. the whole time.

[proven spire]

lol what

i didn't know that lmao

[grizzled patrol]

ah i see. What about albrecht playing the villain? Where is that confirmed? I would've imagined that he would actually want the meltdown to occur for this reason

[proven spire]

so they just sit there that's so funny

[pine orchid]

it's gonna be rlly weird but the closest I can think of as a parallel is the JUMP mechanic in the Nonary Games series-

[proven spire]

they escape earth after it nukes itself and just waits

[silk atlas]

It's Infested, no one is gonna check it out if they care about their lives. How a lot of Infested stuff survives in the Origin System, really

[ashen pulsar]

...im gonna explode from too many analogies my god

[tall echo]

Yep, and only reason they even do that is bc they're tracking our void-tainted dna

[strange plinth]

no infestation, no warframes
would cause a grandfather paradox i think
the playing up the villain bit comes from the hex finale, when he lays out a bit more of what he needed you to be doing
something about "your heart would struggle to move them. It had to grow the only way it ever does, with others"

[pine orchid]

where it's effectively you transfer your memories to another point in the timeline but your physical body doesn't move with you
so if you jump right before you explode, your body still explodes but some other version of you remembers you were about to explode

[proven spire]

because we ourselves can "escape" the loop

[pine orchid]

I'm so sorry, it IS confusing

[proven spire]

yes the grand hivemind sees all this way

[pine orchid]

so where's the theory that the Unum is another version of the infested hivemind-

[proven spire]

we fight the indifference with the power of love and friendship

maybe if we conceptual embody love into the void it will send love back instead

[ashen pulsar]

I still don't understand, because I assumed that our actions in a loop influenced that loop and maybe upcoming ones but I still don't understand how something leaves the loop. when we reset, clearly something can get out of 1999, but I don't understand how that's possible. everything is getting sent back to the start, is it not? how does something come out on the other end?

[silk atlas]

Does this help
Blue is the 'original' timeline
Red is the loop
Pink is the time after the loop with the (minor) alterations that the loop made

The time after the loop still exists and is progressing like normal

[proven spire]

everything but the drifter

[tall echo]

I was just about to make a graph

[ashen pulsar]

so red is us, the hex, the round table, viktor, whatever

right?

[silk atlas]

yeah

[strange plinth]

yup

[silk atlas]

And then the stuff about the Radiation Wars, the Orokin Empire whatever is the pink.

[ashen pulsar]

and pink is "the new reality is that all of this stuff that we did actually happened"

like time travel normally

[silk atlas]

Not "new" but yes it's the reality after the loop

[proven spire]

it's a line and not a singular dot that travels because eternalism states that past present and future all exists at once

[grizzled patrol]

Where can I find the info about the stuff about techrot being used with onlyne and some AI game

[silk atlas]

"And is theoretically accessible"

[tall echo]

Eternalism is a theory not a fact

[proven spire]

yep yep fourth time's the charm

[tall echo]

Pc in aoi's room

[ashen pulsar]

so when we loop, the coda is part of that pink and the red.

[proven spire]

it's not a dot with a ghost trail that resembles a line but it's a whole ass line that keeps going forever

[ashen pulsar]

it is both something that happened in 1999 and in a previous loop.

[proven spire]

forever and ever and ever

eternally

[ashen pulsar]

so then if I kill a coda in 1999, and then I loop and do it again how does that work?

[tall echo]

Time travel. Ourgh.

[silk atlas]

Yeah, and the "Palimpsest of Spacetime" states "Events can be rewritten; traces of the original persist"

So pretty much DE just saying "We don't want to deal with the Butterfly Effect; Lets just make it so you can't screw up things majorly"

[proven spire]

not to be confused with the marvel cinematic universe's branching timeline from the main timeline

this different

where the past you travel to is your new future

and the future you left behind becomes a separate branch

not like that here nonono

nonono like the mushroom

[ashen pulsar]

the new reality is that, in the past, (during a time loop?) we killed a coda, it went to the future and was killed for its heartcells. and then in another time loop, we killed another coda that also decided to hibernate and happened to always be there, even when we killed the last one?

[proven spire]

this is eternalism baby

[ashen pulsar]

AHHHH TIME TRAVEL IS ALR CONFUSING WHY DO LOOPS EXIST

[strange plinth]

eternalism just allows it. this is standard time travel shenanigans
don't put the blame on the wrong thing here

[tall echo]

See there's another aspect of wf time travel, changes to the past have an effect on the future

[proven spire]

not even doing anything here lmao

i'm just rambling about eternalism

[pine orchid]

I think I consider the traces of the past existing thing as like... the story in bad ⭐ end ⭐ night XD

[proven spire]

because it's a straight line where everything exists all at the same time

[tall echo]

It's starting to get a bit grating

[proven spire]

it's grate

[pine orchid]

if you don't know it, the story is that ||miku died, and her theater troupe felt so guilty about it that they trapped themselves in a loop. and every time, they try to change things little by little to delay Miku's death by a little each loop until they bought enough time to get there on time to save her||

[ashen pulsar]

if I scratch a wall in loop 1 then in loop 2 there will be a scratch there, in the future there will be a scratch there as well. If I scratch it again in loop 2, there will be 2 scratches a million years in the future, correct?

[tall echo]

The result of this is that creating a new coda pretty much overwrites previous ones

[ashen pulsar]

WAIT NOW IT OVERWRITES IT???

[pine orchid]

they also make infinite codas anyway so like... it's fiiine

[ashen pulsar]

I thought it just overwrote the fact that it wasn't there when we checked

[proven spire]

we rewrite the past which then overwrites the future then we go to the future to rewrite the past where we overwrite the future and then

[tall echo]

Changes to the past change everything after

[strange plinth]

"events can be rewritten. traces of the original remain"
that's the main thing to remember w/ changes in the past
the new coda would overwrite the old one in this case, yes

[proven spire]

we keep overwriting which type of coda escapes earth and waits in space or maybe they never existed at all if we don't get a virus

[tall echo]

Too much thinking, starting to lose thought

[silk atlas]

Those are independent of each other. If you scratch it in loop 1, there's a scratch later. If you don't scratch it in loop 2, then there's no scratch. Scratch again in loop 3, then there is a scratch. Because the loop resets to before you scratched it.

That's why Arthur mentions Drifter staying and returning to 1999 as having to make sure "things stay correct."

[ashen pulsar]

so the old one didn't exist then, just the traces of it (the hearcells)

[strange plinth]

basically, yea

[proven spire]

we are exempt from the rules because of the elephant in the room

the void

[ashen pulsar]

im not gonna go into the traces because there's probably no logic to that

[proven spire]

it's very convenient

[silent latch]

So in the roath conversations; Albrecht uses Helminth to time travel; since we used transferrence its likely a similar mechanism.

[proven spire]

maybe the hivemind also uses transferrence to see all of time

[silk atlas]

Because when the loop starts back up again, the stuff you had fixed is "unfixed" at this moment.

[proven spire]

connected to every infested lifeform in any point in time

[silk atlas]

Dude can you not.

[proven spire]

lizzie kinda tells us this

[ashen pulsar]

so essentially how this works is (new analogy) I smash a glass, pick up the shards after the loop, rejoin the loop, smash a new glass, and come back to pick up the second set of shards. for whatever reason, we keep the original shards

[strange plinth]

that she can see through time? yes
that its related to transference at all? no????
you seem to just like throwing random curveballs in for no reason

[proven spire]

the eternal hivemind, prolly stronger than the indifference if you ask me

[silk atlas]

That's not transference, that's just the hivemind

[ashen pulsar]

flare always decides to leave the loop, even if they don't know it before they tell us, or else we wouldn't know of temple

[proven spire]

who's to say that the infested hivemind isn't another being from the void

like the indifference

[swift gyro]

Is the primes the ´´strongest´´ version of warframes? because they are warframes with upgrades from orokin right?

[silk atlas]

Yeah that's pretty much it.

[silk atlas]

The fact that the Infested have existed long before anyone bothered looking into the Void.

[swift gyro]

What is the Hivemind?

[strange plinth]

the fact that it existed prior to albrecht breaking into the void and that it is terrified of the void give pretty good indicators that it isn't

[blissful merlin]

Kaya: "Fun fact. Legacyte ancestral memory runs across multiple timelines! Nobody knows how they do it!"
Velimir II: "So I get to round 'em up and sift through their brains. Eh, I guess it's honest work."

[proven spire]

do we have to travel somewhere first for something to exist

[silk atlas]

Primes are considered the best of the best, yes. They weren't always upgrades and some were made as Primes from the get-go

[silent latch]

Multiple dimension/timeline hivemind is how Symbiotes work in Marvel as well.

[swift gyro]

like caliban per example?

[silk atlas]

This this one specific case where people didn't check in the Void because they expected it to be nothing, yes!

[blissful merlin]

Kaya: "Look, we know the Helminth is connected to the future. And we know the Techrot Hivemind and the Helminth are, like, distant cousins or whatever. So if we eliminate the Hivemind's Legacytes, we starve it of energy and we start to repair damage to the timeline. In theory."
Velimir II: "In theory? Well, I've risked more on worse intel. Let's go."

[ashen pulsar]

that doesnt make sense so I guess that's also supposed to be overlooked

[proven spire]

what is a consciousness anyway

[silk atlas]

Uncertain. Most frames aren't given a concrete answer on being Prime first or not.

[proven spire]

maybe the sentient consciousness is also from the void

[blissful merlin]

Kaya: "The Infestation, The Indifference, the messed-up timeline, all the data say they're connected, but I can't figure out how. And if I don't figure this out everything just gets messed up and—" [exasperated shout]

Such juicy lore in TA

[strange plinth]

where's bau. go talk with bau about that.

[grizzled patrol]

is there a lore explanation for gemini skins

[proven spire]

is consciousness made or is it received?

[grizzled patrol]

if yes, how do protoframes get brought back

[silk atlas]

Again, you're making it out like it's a conscious action they do. Flare in the loop still does their loop stuff, while the same Flare that goes on after the loop "ends" (really just resets back to the beginning) just has to live on with the fact they're turning into Temple to wait until the Naga Drums.

[proven spire]

if it is received where does it come from?

or even made where does it come from?

[swift gyro]

Oh nice, you remembered a question i wanted to ask. How exactly did the creation of the drifter was made? because as far as i know, the drifter is the version B of the operator that didnt get saved by lotus and started living ´´solo´´, is that right?

[ashen pulsar]

It is a conscious action. Flare always decides to leave the timeloop.

[silk atlas]

Outside of Drifter off-handedly guessing they can Transference the Protos into the future (which we don't know if they actually tried because it's just a KIM convo and Drifter is spitballing), no lore on them.

[strange plinth]

outside of the areas they can access? unknown if they are truly canon. there are convos that mention the possibility of bringing them out of 1999 via transference, but no follow-ups

[proven spire]

we are all stardust

[grizzled patrol]

thx guys, is there a good place that explains how the kim system works and its mechanics?

[swift gyro]

protos are really the drifter bringing them to the future? or isnt confirmed yet?

[silk atlas]

It's a KIM convo that Drifter is like "uuuuhh maybe I can do this."

That's all we have so as far as I'm concerned they're not canon.

[strange plinth]

you can look through the kimulacrum if you want all of the internals of the system. flowcharts of the convos n booleans n such

[swift gyro]

KIM? what is that?

[ashen pulsar]

again, flare had to make that decision even before the realization in the KIM chats so that they would know of temple. assuming this is something to overlook, however because it doesnt make any sense

[grizzled patrol]

its more just the fact that... its there without any explanation as to what I can do with it or its purpose or any hidden mechanics. Like I heard that convos can be reset or smth but it doesnt really mention anything abt that

[proven spire]

continuity is when you transfer the spirit onto a new vessel

transference is when you transfer both body and spirit

[strange plinth]

in a way, because flare has already decided that they'll leave to the comet during that loop, the warframe is already named temple
but you could just overlook it, its far simpler and doesn't super matter

[wind ruin]

The Vessels are each based on one of the Protoframes, so there is a possibility they can use Transference to 'occupy' one of the Vessels. If the Vessels get finished. So far only two of them are.

[proven spire]

hell even warframe has cloning

[strange plinth]

its purpose is increasing chemistry and learning about the hex/roundtable/triad. and dating if you wish
the convos can be reset if you mess up in one way or want something to be different

[proven spire]

if you clone someone are they the same or do they become their own person

is consciousness made or is it received

[ashen pulsar]

nothing I do will make it make sense

it doesn't make any sense that flare will always talk with kaya and leave if they only have that realization after chatting with us

it's like saying "wait... I can do that?" after having done it hundreds of times intentionally

[marble pewter]

I wonder why no birthdays were listed for the Triad

[proven spire]

warframe is so cool even the buildings are made of flesh

most of the technology is made from bioengineering

[marble pewter]

Maybe it’s a calendar thing..

[stiff beacon]

yea for some reason the orokin went hard into bio tech, and banned ai for some reason

[ashen pulsar]

"for some reason"

for very good reason

[strange plinth]

they got proven right with the sentients

[proven spire]

turning people into meat puppets harder than steel

controlled by void children

even their clothes and gear are made from this bio tech material

they banned ai because it's now trying to kill them 😂

[hollow trench]

My favorite part about is like they had moments to learn but just didn’t

[proven spire]

but is it really just lines of code or have they created a new consciousness or have they created new conduits for an outside consciousness to receive

[ashen pulsar]

sentients are also bio tech

[proven spire]

has the orokin attained enough knowledge to imitate god

[ashen pulsar]

but they are living creatures

[proven spire]

living things are the most complex machines of all

[hollow trench]

Kalymos is my favorite living thing in game

[ashen pulsar]

or... pseudo-living, idk if they metabolize

[proven spire]

humanity's pursuit of knowledge but with unchecked hubris

roathe does say he does not believe in sol or lua but only in knowledge

[ashen pulsar]

yeah dualism died early on

replaced by the vain faith, as ballas calls it

[hollow trench]

I wonder how good the grineer are with cloning

Like yeah the dna base is basically blown out

And you have people like Clem or the steel meridian.

How long will they live for

Why haven’t they just kidnapped a corpus tech and used some of their dna to stabilize?

[copper mountain]

Well they had Tyl Regor's projects but we kinda stuck our thumbs in that pie

[proven spire]

ok so we got existentialism, transhumanism, bioengineering, artificial intelligence, time travel, cosmic horror, anything i miss?

[fast dew]

They did this before the sentients

[fast dew]

We can pet her now!

[proven spire]

so they were against chatgpt but was okay with bioweapons

and the transferring of one's consciousness from one body to another and genetic modifications to alter the human condition

the orokin are so weird

[fast dew]

Self interested and afraid of anything smarter than themselves

[proven spire]

why did they have to go so hard on the sentients when their purpose was to just terraform a system the orokin are so weird

[copper mountain]

They were against sentient / sapient AI but not against other forms of it; they had robotic proxies like MOAs which are “intelligent” enough to move around on their own and speak

This all to say that the Orokin would have been fine with ChatGPT because it’s not sentient

[lean garden]

I mean... the sentients did shoot first

[proven spire]

well they should've made it so they weren't capable of that lol

what were they expecting on Tau? aliens to shoot?

[fast dew]

It could just be mining equipment

[lean garden]

I mean, they did evolve and adapt

[proven spire]

were the sentients touched by the void or something

[dire mountain]

No

[fast dew]

Nah, that would usually kill them

[lean garden]

A mining laser is still a laser

[dire mountain]

Thats kinda... the whole point actually

[copper mountain]

Ok, curiosity question: where do we learn this?

[proven spire]

yeah like why did they have to be built like this

[lean garden]

-# or are they

[dire mountain]

Roathe iirc

[lean garden]

in the VMs

[proven spire]

oh probably to withstand foreign planets

[copper mountain]

Of course it’s KIM
I don’t have time to read all the convos I’m trying to get the French woman to love me

[dire mountain]

I mean if you create a race thats main function is to adapt and evolve they will inevitably develop tools and that inevitably turns into weapons

[proven spire]

makes sense, like how farmers can turn their tools into weapons

[lean garden]

its more you have to clobber roathe in descendia

[copper mountain]

Ah
Been busy since the update so haven’t had the time to kick his butt

[proven spire]

but they're not a race they're just meant to be machines

[lean garden]

bruh

why are youtube links blocked

[proven spire]

imagine sending a roomba to another planet and then when you go there the roomba says this is our planet now and then shoots you

[lean garden]

https://youtu.be/ol2WP0hc0NY?si=ZDWvJg3ddM9YMI7S

there we go

[dire mountain]

They are machines the ability to think AND the directive to adapt and evolve. They are a race of people at that point

[proven spire]

there it is, why did they have to make them like that lol

imagine if the space rover on mars shot at you when you tried to visit it because their logic dictated it was the thing to do

[dire mountain]

Probably because the input lag would make the regular machinery next to inoperable

[hollow trench]

Also

[dire mountain]

Mars already deals with minutes of delay

[proven spire]

this is thousand of years into the future, the question is why did they have to make them like that was it just an oversight

[dire mountain]

Information still takes time to travel?

[peak compass]

if they didnt have feelings the orokin couldnt make them suffer. And then where would the Orokin get their daily shits and giggles?

No seriously, the Orokin are insane bored sadist and the old peace lore confirms it

[proven spire]

so the conclusion is orokin bad

orokin stupid

how have they survived this long it's truly a mystery

[peak compass]

I can open some history books about the human race and ask much the same question. lol

As silly as the Orokin can feel like at times, they got nothing on real life. Not even close.

[proven spire]

yeah those empires died because they were silly

[peak compass]

people be crazy sometimes.........a lot of times.

[proven spire]

an empire that lasted for more than a couple thousand years just went away because they made a mistake

[peak compass]

I think theres a lot that went wrong with the Orokin empire. The biggest issue is they were so perfect they were borded.

[proven spire]

i think they were just betrayed by one of their own

[peak compass]

they were not actually stupid, all the Orokin are highly intellegent. They just have no purpose and zero adversity to overcome and that just caused them to degenerate over time. Think of it as a compentary on human nature.

You can just blame Ballas. Its usually his fault lol

[proven spire]

after all they did win against the sentients in the end

Ballas did it for love is my opinion lol

[strange plinth]

because that was part of the plot that ballas and hunhow made

[proven spire]

Margulis was the reason

Roathe did say Ballas would've done literally anything even destroying the empire

truly a tragic sci-fi soap opera

maybe the peace between the sentients was just a very elaborate way to destroy the enemy

[peak compass]

Lets remember the new war where Ballas has a hissy fit because the operator is the one person that wont bow down and worship him

[proven spire]

half mad and half sentient at that point

orokin played sick games with each other all of the time because yeah they were bored but they never crossed any lines between them

margulis dying was the line and ballas's breaking point

totally makes sense for that to be one of his motivations for utterly destroying the empire and conspiring with the enemy plus he gets to be the hero if the later part of the plan succeeded

[peak compass]

To be fair, Margulis covered for the operators very treasonous action. Which now explains why the seven had Margulis executed, especially after the big rebellion on Tau. It makes sense. A lot more then it did before this big reveal.

[proven spire]

he loved margulis and margulis loved him then she dedicated herself to the tenno so at that point the tenno was margulis

he places his rage and grief on the tenno because the tenno ultimately led to her demise

[peak compass]

and her death lead to the Seven's demise.

[proven spire]

Ballas did it all for love i tell ya

[peak compass]

it felt a bit stupid for them to kill her before hand but now it makes more sense. Shes taking the blame for outright treason.

[hollow trench]

My internet is still out so I have no clue if there’s any new messages

[proven spire]

imagine if your wife put herself in a position where they would get themselves in trouble and there would be nothing to change her mind so now you're also put in a situation where you have to do something

so you plot and then it backfires

she dies, you go mad, you plot again

plan backfires again, rest is history

"they warned me about you i should never have"

[ashen pulsar]

and... yknow... his actions

"You lied to me, Ballas. You're no different than the rest of them."

[proven spire]

and our actions

and her decision

[ashen pulsar]

not quite. She chose to defend us

she was also killed for like apostasy or whatever

[proven spire]

lied to who? natah or margulis? are they the same people

[mighty snow]

No they are not. It states that in the lore last time I checked.

[proven spire]

natah viewed ballas's unconditional love for margulis as merely an infatuation

[strange plinth]

margulis helped the tenno, developed transference therapy, put us in the second dream, and then got executed
natah controlled the tenno in the second dream, got reprogrammed to act more like margulis, and became the lotus

[brittle siren]

is Iztam the kind of sentient that can summon smaller sentient?

[strange plinth]

summulyst? i believe so

[brittle siren]

I think Margulis kinda love Ballas at first but then she started to hate him

iirc she did say "my love" to Ballas

or sth like that

[proven spire]

could be, but we will never know, we can only tell from people who were there

[strange plinth]

their love was genuine and mutual at first, according to roathe
the problems arose when margulis put the tenno above ballas in her heart. he was infatuated, so her caring more about something else broke him

[brittle siren]

yep

[proven spire]

but then again, ballas lost margulis at the exact moment she laid her eyes on the tenno when they arrived back from the zariman

that's when he knew

[brittle siren]

He still hesitated when she beg him to rethink about making our Tenno "treason", but nope, he put his pride over her

[proven spire]

a tragic soap opera i tell ya

he's orokin, he's an executor

[brittle siren]

also Ballas and Margulis love is public it seem, because in the green Ayatan she literally call Ballas "my love"

[proven spire]

in the middle of a war

a star war

execute order 66

[brittle siren]

at least our Tenno is not Rey sKyWaLkEr

[proven spire]

he made the warframes with rebellious traits

mf was always plottin

[brittle siren]

correction: some of them rebelious not by his design, it mainly from the first victim that make the strain for that Warframe, like Temple and Mirage

and Yareli too

[proven spire]

he was in the lab cookin like i'm gonna make this one ride a skateboard

[strange plinth]

<last sentence of the bluva story here>

[proven spire]

well he could've picked people that were more soldiery or something

[fast dew]

He wanted to be an magical girl or something

[strange plinth]

"took our greatest, volunteers or not"
most of them were. some of them were punishments. doesn't matter who you are if you're getting framed as a punishment

[proven spire]

if Dax served their own orokin lords what's umbra's story and how did he get there

[strange plinth]

is that not explained in the quest

[proven spire]

i forgor

[mighty snow]

There's a quest explaining that

[proven spire]

i forgor

[fast dew]

Seemingly, from the star child's diadem, he's related to ballas, i think. But, that is just a guess.

[proven spire]

like as a decorated dax soldier before being turned into a warframe

medals and all that

a loving father with a good son

it didn't seem like the standard program, it seemed like a punishment

but a punishment for what

[fast dew]

A lot

Looking at Kuva was one of Yareli's crimes

[proven spire]

maybe umbra found the yuvan files in ballas's drawer

[strange plinth]

umbra discovered ballas's betrayal. that's it. he found the vitruvian

[fast dew]

She was a yuvan, servant. Looking at the "sacred kuva" is a crime.

[proven spire]

so he kidnapped him and his son

[fast dew]

Oh yeah this

Wonder who draws the vitruvians

[proven spire]

it's all coming back to me now

the yuvan files

[fast dew]

I choose to think Loid draws the requiem logs because I'm normal like that

https://tenor.com/view/feel-that-that's-true-feel-that-thats-xata-xata-warframe-meme-gif-15531284589461707381

[proven spire]

see it just proves that ballas really would move heaven and earth for margulis

roathe wasn't lying lol

[woven coyote]

vitruvian

yuvans are candidates for becoming continuity victims

[lean garden]

he did indeed burn the empire for her in a way

[swift gyro]

why exactly did drifter get older but not the operator?

[strange plinth]

operator was in cryo, drifter likely aged until the daily executions started

[fast dew]

Remember that there is a bias, especially for Roathe. What may be true to him might not be true to others

He often speaks on topics he knows little to nothing on

-# conceptual embodiment

[swift gyro]

cryo after what? like ik that drifter didnt get helped by lotus but i dont remember at which jorney the drifter was ´´created´´

[strange plinth]

drifter split from the operator at the deal, spent time in the zariman, then duviri
operator spent a significant amount of time in stasis before being used in the old war, and then went into cryo after the night of naga drums. big sleep between then and awakening is all in cryo. they didn't have much time conscious to actually age

[swift gyro]

then tennos mostly pass big time sleeping in cryo and get woke up if there is problems to solve? or was just our tenno case?

[strange plinth]

yea basically
we wake up mostly because vor was about to take a warframe
though we'd probably wake up around hunhow's tomb opening or lua being taken out of the void otherwise

[swift gyro]

Dang, atp we basicly are workers without getting paid. imagine tenno wakes up thinking there is a big thing happening but it was only bcs it was too hot and the cryo bed broke down..

[fast dew]

Im saying he doesn't know the specifics because he isn't a literal void scientist

Id rather trust what Euleria or Albrecht says about the void than what Roathe does.

[proven spire]

but he does know what it is and how it works

[fast dew]

While yes, they agree on that, there is the high chance Roathe came to that conclusion from the operator report, and not on his own

[proven spire]

it's quite literally a school lesson

everyone in that world knows what it is

[fast dew]

Yes. A school lesson. Taught to 13-15 year olds.

That understanding might not be the same as what it actually is

[proven spire]

even Lyon, a person from a different era, can guess the concept

[queen shale]

Is there any conclusive answer on where the orokin came from and why/how they took over the solar system?

[stiff fable]

from what we know they're the rich and famous elite of Earth who discovered how to make themselves immortal

[strange plinth]

^ there's the O.R.O. group in 1999 that we can point to as a "proto-orokin"

[queen shale]

Huh, I wonder how they got their weird blue appearance then. Must be void shenanigans

https://tenor.com/view/what-is-wrong-with-you-why-are-you-blue-what-is-wrong-with-you-why-are-you-blue-brba-breaking-bad-gif-26777019

[white sable]

I was playing the quest Once Awake
What's Radiatin war?

[strange plinth]

nah, they just modify their appearances for that
refacia tech, we can access the same stuff through focus redeems

[white sable]

That's just their sense of fashion XD

[strange plinth]

the radiation wars were wars against the infestation using radiation, there's at least 18 of them
earth was nuked several times

[proven spire]

They were just people who lived too long, like those people in altered carbon

[queen shale]

The more I look into the game the more I keep finding capitalism commentary. Even the orokin were just old rich guys.

And here I was thinking they were aliens

[stiff fable]

literally just blue skin dye

[stiff fable]

nuclear war.

At least 18 of them

[white sable]

Ooooh

[strange plinth]

no aliens in warframe
-# unless you count the dead plants
just humans or human-made things

[proven spire]

Post apocalyptic event on top of another post apocalyptic event

[white sable]

Is there any more record/mention of it in game?

[rich stump]

Basically, way back when the infested first showed up and spread across earth (which, form what we understand, was somewhere around the start of the 21st century) people responded by nuking it

[woven coyote]

No aliens in warframe, the devs have mentioned that was one of their design choices since waaay back

[proven spire]

All the animals are extinct and replaced with bioengineered species

Horizon zero dawn style

[queen shale]

Fair enough, I do appreciate the cosmic/eldritch horror approach instead

[proven spire]

The orokin fish lol

[white sable]

Huh, then where did infested came from?

They look pretty alien

[rich stump]

We have no idea

[woven coyote]

We havent been told yet but considering hollvania probably still earthborne

[white sable]

Didn't Entrati brought it to earth?

The techrot?

[woven coyote]

Nope

It was already known as the plague year before entrati

[strange plinth]

taking the words out of my-

[proven spire]

Is it in 1899

[woven coyote]

Muahahahaha

[woven coyote]

Unless there is cathedrale kim dialogue that says so, probably not

[white sable]

Triad haven't mentioned about techrot yet so could it be after that?

[woven coyote]

As far as we know around 1999

[strange plinth]

i mean, entrati grew a helminth there to bring roathe
so there's probably infestation somewhere in XX99

[proven spire]

Haha

[woven coyote]

Roathe mentioned it withered when they arrived

[white sable]

Scaldra was made to tackle the techrot

[woven coyote]

So still seems like a no

[swift sentinel]

Entrati's Helminth died, Roathe ended up making his own with his own Infestation

[thick yacht]

Why do I feel like the Operator has beheaded people

💀

[swift sentinel]

We do that in game, just part of the Tenno fighting style

[white sable]

Some plants spread their seeds or their means of reproduction when they died, the withered husk being lighter spreads far
Sooooooooooo

[proven spire]

The infestation is in 1899 now because of eternalism

[strange plinth]

i mean, vor gets cut in half, that's canon
which isn't quite decapitation but yk

[woven coyote]

If that was viable roathe wouldnt have needed to use his own blood to synthesize helminth to go back

[white sable]

Ever scored a headshot with your amp?
it does blew their head off XD

[thick yacht]

We are like psychopathic with the killing ngl

Operator has probably killed hundreds in canon at least

Arthur or Quincy has nothing on us

[white sable]

I didn't get this part of the conversation, what exactly was it?

[proven spire]

They synthesized it without electricity

[queen shale]

The orokin were justified in being scared to pieces after the Uriel incident

[swift sentinel]

We dismantled nearly the entire Orokin military in a single night. We've killed THOUSANDS

[proven spire]

So it’s possible it can be evolved on its own

Over time

[strange plinth]

they were in the old war
its brought up a few times in KIM convos that there's a horrificly traumatized child soldier running around in the future with just as much firepower, if not more, than drifter has

[woven coyote]

Just part of the same statement

Albrecht got them to 1899 with helminth, helminth withered, at some point roathe uses his own blood to synthesize a helminth to go back

And boasts about doing it without electricity

[white sable]

Go back to where though?

[proven spire]

The world ending in 1999 is inevitable either way

[thick yacht]

The way they talk about the Operator you’d think they’re the boogeyman

[proven spire]

The infestation will always end up there

[woven coyote]

They were

[proven spire]

Had to have been there already lmaoo

[woven coyote]

What?

[woven coyote]

Sanctum
Remember the pc he is using to chat is the sanctum anatomica's
So when he says he made a helminth from his own blood to "come here" it could only be the sanctum

[proven spire]

It withered after they used it but it was already there beforehand

[woven coyote]

Yes when albrecht put it there

Helminth isnt a natural strain

[strange plinth]

helminth doesn't get made until the old war
if there's a helminth in the past, its because someone put it there
and there's only one other guy going around with helminth

[proven spire]

So albrecht caused the techrot in 1999

[strange plinth]

what

[proven spire]

?

[woven coyote]

[stiff fable]

no

It was there before him

[strange plinth]

no, the techrot was already there. the helminths were put there by albrecht

[proven spire]

Is the helminth not the infestation

[woven coyote]

Different strains

[stiff fable]

The Helminth is specific strain that Ballas created

[strange plinth]

the helminth doesn't even spread it just sits there

[woven coyote]

Yeah again helminth isn't a natural strain

[proven spire]

Different strain but they both infestation correct

[stiff fable]

But the technocyte predates Albrecht

[woven coyote]

Yup

[strange plinth]

yes, both infestation
techrot is the one ravaging hollvania, helminth is under mira's ave and in the backroom

[proven spire]

So where did the techrot come from

[woven coyote]

We have no idea

[strange plinth]

the infestation's origins remain unknown
other than not albrecht

[proven spire]

We are sure?

[woven coyote]

Yeah

Albrecht already called it the plague year before travelling there

[strange plinth]

Mire description mentions the plague year
whenever the hell mire was added
Coda Mire elaborates on 1999 being the plague year

[woven coyote]

Aka it was known as the plague year before his involvment

[proven spire]

Before he travelled meaning he was always meant to go there

[white sable]

Does that mean Marie and Lyon are also in there?
I was thinking that they were still in 1899

[woven coyote]

Yeah they take turns in the sanctums pc

[stiff fable]

no, incorrect

Albrecht changed the timeline by traveling to 1999

[proven spire]

Incorrect on what

[stiff fable]

or timetraveling at all

Warframe doesn't have a predestination paradox

[proven spire]

Really?

[stiff fable]

that's one of the things that Warframe eternalism is supposed to deal with

Originally the protoframes were never created

Arthur and the Hex never become the Hex

[proven spire]

I thought they all existed at the same time so naturally predestination would occur?

[stiff fable]

No

The opposite in fact

Things don't happen until they happen

Back to the Future rules

[strange plinth]

the radiation wars would wipe away most of albrecht's influence on the past anyway

[proven spire]

But it did happen that albrecht brought a strain of infestation into the past

I’m kidding do not throw rocks

[strange plinth]

helminth, which is pretty docile and doesn't spread

[stiff fable]

No, it's true enough, Albrecht DID bring a new strain of infestation to the past

[woven coyote]

And would also get nuked

[strange plinth]

and would also get nuked

[white sable]

What's stopping it from evolving though?

[fast dew]

Seems to be a bloodborne variant over the spore variants

[stiff fable]

It doesn't want to

[thick yacht]

I wonder if canonically the operator is capable of one shotting people with their powers

[stiff fable]

The Helminth likes being the Helminth

[thick yacht]

[proven spire]

Really boggles the mind doesn’t it

[stiff fable]

But it's still plugged into the rest of the hivemind

[woven coyote]

Lizzie makes that pretty clear yeah

[strange plinth]

true, yeah. it creates lizzie out of flare's blood, and the helminth needs to be injected to transform
still, doesn't do much on its own. needs outside manipulation of some sort

[fast dew]

Mhm.

[stiff fable]

oh yeah the Infestation is also paracasual

The hivemind extends into the past, future and alternate dimensions

[fast dew]

Albrecht isn't responsible for the techrot either. Idk why people think he is.

[strange plinth]

fell for the scaldra propaganda

[fast dew]

They exist similarly to the void

[stiff fable]

Illiteracy

[woven coyote]

Likely lettie's suspicions

[proven spire]

I thought there were no alternative dimensions

[stiff fable]

They're inaccessible

[fast dew]

Awfully common in the warframe fandom.

[fast dew]

.. the void counts

[stiff fable]

From our perspective they're theoretical

[fast dew]

The drifter is also living proof of it

[stiff fable]

eh kinda

[strange plinth]

none that truly matter. "theoretically accessible"
and they've been accessed like. once. maybe twice

[stiff fable]

The Drifter's "timeline" was confined to the Zariman

[proven spire]

We’re all just guessing lmao

[fast dew]

... not really guessing

[stiff fable]

Not guessing

It's all in-game

[proven spire]

I thought no branching timeline

[stiff fable]

Again, it's theoretical

[fast dew]

Theoretical, but mildly proven from the existence of the drifter

Just many, many branches.

[proven spire]

I did suggest back then that they existed but no singular timeline onli

[stiff fable]

I meant from your own practical perspective

Other timelines do exist, but you can't reach them

From your perspective, they're purely theoretical

But yeah it's canon that someone fused all their alternate dimension selves into one

[proven spire]

I thought it was back to the future

[stiff fable]

It's why crossplay exists

[fast dew]

The drifter's timeline probably did go on without them, but it likely got consumed by wally

[proven spire]

What happened

[stiff fable]

Yes, it is

[strange plinth]

Baro talking to Baro about merging all the Baros into one Baro

[woven coyote]

And drifter's timeline does go into the void, which doesnt exactly have timeline until he reunites with actual time in our side

[stiff fable]

Baro K'teer made a deal with the Man in the Wall

[proven spire]

In theory

[stiff fable]

Just so we're clear, when people start playing the "I'm only pretending to be stupid" card I block them on general principle

[fast dew]

Fair enough lmao

[proven spire]

I remember seeing the word ‘predestination’ in one of the duviri exams

[fast dew]

I do be blocking people over lore discussion

[proven spire]

It’s in the game yo

[fast dew]

Sometimes there's a person that infuriates me to a ridiculous amount, that i don't block them and just watch the shit show they put on

Ie
Dude who thought loid did kuva instead of the much more normal and common option that he just lived longer than what we do as humans

[proven spire]

I like learning new information

[woven coyote]

Looks like you missremembered

[proven spire]

I think there is more of these

[woven coyote]

Focus on the find word searchbar at the top

[fast dew]

Hey, the palimpsest of space-time.. thats Euleria's book...

[strange plinth]

dunno if you saw the guy that showed up here, posted AI images, then like a day later had to be told what the entire story of the game was
-# i was the unlucky person to explain the lore to them
they ended up storming out because the corpus were human and not androids or something

[woven coyote]

Says 0/0

[fast dew]

HA

Sorry thats so funny what 💀

[proven spire]

Oh my bad

[fast dew]

And i think Albrecht's hold on

[woven coyote]

Yeah i screenshoted like that just to show the zariman tablet pulldown was open

Cant exactly screnshot all the zariman tablets on a phone screen lol

Not without taking too much time

[proven spire]

learning is fun

[fast dew]

Yeah, book is written by both Albrecht and Euleria. Albrecht also has her book in his netracells

So normal over that

[woven coyote]

Proud father of the year... no, century? Milenia? I give up

[fast dew]

So normal

[fast dew]

Certainly centuries at the very least

[fast dew]

And while the book being open is cus of asset reuse, i will believe he read it after she published it

I also will believe Loid illustrated it, given that he can draw

Im okay over this information

[woven coyote]

I think albrecht only learned of the book after going to duviri

At least he seemed surprised by it when he got to manifested duviri

[proven spire]

this is so cool

[fast dew]

He was mainly surprised that Euleria's inspiration was his own stories iirc

[woven coyote]

But you'd think he would notice that without needing the void audiobook from hell if he read it before

[frank galleon]

im only entrati family rank 3 so forgive me for not knowing but who is aware of who in the necralisk and sanctum

mainly is necraloid loid aware of loid?

[stiff fable]

yes

[strange plinth]

the answer to that is in whispers,,

[stiff fable]

The whole start of Whispers is Necraloid remembering everything

[woven coyote]

People in the basement are aware of the people upstairs

People upstairs are not even aware that there is a basement

[fast dew]

This lowkey reminded me to adjust some wiki trivia for mother

[fast dew]

Mother probably knew of the sanctum. Too bad she got brainwormed.

[frank galleon]

thats a very good point i forgot that its necraloid loid who sends you the original message and then gives you access to the sanctum

[proven spire]

Oh we can add information? Awesome

[frank galleon]

ok i see

do we know how otak fits into that?

[woven coyote]

It is player maintained even if it is the official one

[woven coyote]

He doesnt he is put to sleep

[fast dew]

Mhm. I've been meaning to adjust the trivia on when mother met Father. It said mother met father after Albrecht left, which isnt true according to Loid and Daughter.

[stiff fable]

wait they left? Hooo. Yeah that person was crazy.

[proven spire]

But the voices are androidy

[strange plinth]

not sure if they're out of the server, didn't check that
just the way they ended up leaving that conversation

[woven coyote]

Intentionally might i add

[stiff fable]

bunches of them replaced their vocal chords and the rest wear helmets!

[proven spire]

I was expecting them to be orokin except it’s their clothes that were blue instead of the skin

[stiff fable]

despite how many survivors we've met recently, we were pretty thorough

[proven spire]

It’s a big solar system

[stiff fable]

People like Hunhow and the acolytes use "Orokin" as a slur for "human"

the distinction doesn't mean anything to them

[brittle siren]

tbh Alad could have stem from one of the Orokin family

[proven spire]

Because all humans were under the crushing might of the empayah

[stiff fable]

but he didn't

[fast dew]

"When I met her, Mother, she was as brilliant as she was broken. Chasing her father's ghost, convinced he was still 'out there'. I thought... I thought I could fix things." – from heart of deimos

"When the grandchildren were still very small, Kalymos fell sick. I did what I could, but there seemed to be no hope. Albrecht took Kalymos away, out of our sight. He told us she was recovering, and mustn't be disturbed." – loid's first conversation after r5 cavia rank up.

[proven spire]

The grineer use skoom as a slur for tenno

[stiff fable]

not really, that's a different word. The use Tenno for Tenno

[fast dew]

Albrecht was there, but apparently according to father, he wasn't??

Oh. And father might be ||related to the people behind the gyre deluxe||

[strange plinth]

||oh vortengeist||
||vorten. hm||
||wait vor-ten. there's ten of him now. this is getting out of hand /s||

[proven spire]

Might?

Of the empire

I am so sure of my speculations but unsure about what the game actually tells me

[fast dew]

||Would make some sense for him to be related. Just an engineer and all||

Hehe. I wouldn't mind 10 of father

[stiff fable]

Vor is a Russian word that means "prisoner" if I'm remembering my Vorkosigan novels correctly

[strange turtle]

Nope, it’s just the group that are tackling it, it existed and did other stuff before that

[proven spire]

They’re a paramilitary organization that has sol and lua as their logo

[stiff fable]

Yeah, Dualism basically replaced Christianity in Warframe land, and Scaldra is the start of the Dax

[proven spire]

That’s interesting where is the dax thing mentioned?

[stiff fable]

It's what Minerva says about them in her KIM convos

[strange plinth]

i don't think its mentioned directly
but the scaldra's relationship with O.R.O. is similar to the dax's with the orokin

[stiff fable]

Scaldra is part of a conspiracy by the rich and famous, and Hollvania is their testing ground

[proven spire]

They’re mercenaries

[stiff fable]

yeah, and their owners are related to O.R.O.

[proven spire]

Feudal lords used mercenaries

Neo feudalism

[stiff fable]

basically

the actual real world movement is called "Dark Enlightenment"

bunch of Silicon Valley techbros and CEOs who want to replace democracies with feudalism

themselves at the top, of course

[proven spire]

As technology progresses things regress to older structures

If only a certain amount of people can possess extreme military capability they become a new warrior class so to speak

[stiff fable]

As social structures break down societies become more susceptible to authoritarian takeover

[proven spire]

People who trained their entire lives lost to some schmuck having a gun

That’s when it collapsed

But if we had like iron man suits or something like that then they become the new knights lol

[stiff fable]

Feudalism didn't end due to weapons technology though, it ended because of education and economic change

too many people left the feudal towns for the cities and suddenly the knights and petty lords couldn't pay their taxes

[proven spire]

What about the samurai

[stiff fable]

As always, the most fascinating counterexample

[proven spire]

Maybe the dax are closer to samurai than knights

Cos they have katanas

[stiff fable]

but no, ultimately the same thing happened

[proven spire]

I saw the tom cruise movie

[stiff fable]

Man I love that movie

[proven spire]

So what happened when the orokin elite were killed

Did the grineer and dax just give up

[stiff fable]

But no ultimately the government of Japan saw that the rest of the world had a super tech advantage and threw out their feudal system

[proven spire]

That’s what happens in the movie yo

The uniformed japanese were also samurai

[stiff fable]

right, but there weren't any battles like the movie had

[proven spire]

It must’ve sucked not being samurai, you had to work a real job now and pay taxes

[stiff fable]

oh yeah absolutely

though, they did get to leverage their connections to get super rich

[proven spire]

Can’t stab ppl u don’t like anymore if they offended you

[stiff fable]

there are a bunch of samurai family mansions that are museums now

Walking into this traditional Japanese building and finding a pool table in a side room is wild

[proven spire]

So the orokin lords had their own dax and grineer armies right

Like do they pay for the clones or something lol

[stiff fable]

probably, but we don't know all that much about the Orokin Houses

[proven spire]

Who manages the empires economy

Can’t do all the work

[stiff fable]

originally it had a very small economy, it seems

[strange turtle]

I imagine they either each ran their own cloning facilities or there were certain houses that specialised in it

[proven spire]

Maybe nef anyo was in orokin wall street

[stiff fable]

until the Old War started and the Corpus suddenly could move in to have an actual free market

The Orokin hated that

[strange turtle]

Not nef anyo

Gregory Anyo on the other hand…

[proven spire]

If the orokin were the ruling class and the dax were the warrior class and the corpus were the merchant class

There must be a sol and lua vatican

And the archimedeans were like nasa scientists

Let’s take a trip to the void and see what happens

[pale cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/the-man-in-wall-warframe-gif-24269482

[strange plinth]

my favorite part is that he did not need to do any of that

[proven spire]

Imagine if the tenno were cured of their trauma and then integrated as the new orokin superweapon

The superweapon to defeat those sentients

[proven spire]

Gasp maybe it’s the house of the grineer queens

The orokins who got away

[fast dew]

Fascist organisation uses religion as the basis for their ideals. Pretty common.

Too bad viktor is so pretty

[proven spire]

What is fascism anyway? It’s just people in uniforms

[frank galleon]

crazy work

[fast dew]

Is this like a genuine question? Need it before I get too deep into it

[fast dew]

He is! He's just evil Loid but w black hair and lip piercings!

[frank galleon]

"i can fix him"

ok buddy

[proven spire]

Oh no please educate me

[strange plinth]

no i don't think viktor is fixable
but he does look good

[turbid vigil]

did we actually go into cryostasis or did we not age due to the entire moon being inside the void

[hazy prism]

Viktor is 100% aware of what he's doing, and does not give a shit

[pale cedar]

Yes he is, ||with a Redeemer Prime to the face||

[strange plinth]

fair point, fair point

[hazy prism]

the tenno on the moon did go into cryostasis, hiding Lua in the void is seperate but also for their safety

[strange plinth]

drifter aged while in the void, so it isn't really that

[stiff fable]

Varzia presumably didn't make it to cryo tho'

[frank galleon]

did drifter stop aging once he got into duviri?

because it was the same day over and over

[strange plinth]

doesn't varzia mention maroo getting her out of a pod?

[strange plinth]

drifter presumably aged until the daily executions started

[turbid vigil]

aight

[hazy prism]

is it implied that the rate at which Drifter aged is (seemingly aging only around a decade at most over god knows how many years) because of the deal with wally or just because they were in duviri

[stiff fable]

I'll be damned, I never saw that dialogue

[turbid vigil]

wasnt it until he didn't wanna do childish thinhs and dominus got angry

[stiff fable]

someone must have evac'd her to one

[strange plinth]

that is when the executions started, yea

[stiff fable]

specifically Drifter tried to leave

[hazy prism]

oh so basically drifter had around a decade-ish playdate with Dominus Thrax and then grew up, wanted to leave and started repeating the executions until Lotus' hand fell

[frank galleon]

i think this is something ive misunderstood but how is the drifter using his time loop abilities in 1999 when he returned them to thrax at the end of the duviri paradox

[turbid vigil]

they were still in the void

[hazy prism]

it was never Thrax's power perse, it always belonged to Drifter

[turbid vigil]

drifter likely just imagined dominus getting it

[strange plinth]

different loop, different controller, prolly
and drifter takes control at the end of the hex quest

[turbid vigil]

dont "❌"me, duviri is in the void

[strange plinth]

ah i thought you meant 1999 was in the void

you'd be surprised how common that was

[hazy prism]

wait people thought 1999 was like a void recreation of 1999?

[stiff fable]

Conceptual embodiment

Strand of Khra

"Eternalism"

Anything to say it wasn't just time travel

[strange plinth]

unfortunately

[stiff fable]

One dude on the forum crashed out over it

[strange turtle]

No it just is 1999

[frank galleon]

rahhhh i love strands of khra i love grasp of lohk i love xaku i love the void

[hazy prism]

i'm aware, its just was that a common theory at the time of 1999 release?

[fast dew]

"Fascism is an ultranationalist, authoritarian political philosophy. It combines elements of nationalism and militarism."

Scaldra follow it quite closely. You even said it yourself. Paramilitaries are common in fascist regimes :) it does feel really hamfisted too.

[strange turtle]

Yeah, the wording was kinda misleading for some people and for whatever reason DE has decided to refer to the different points in time as timelines

[stiff fable]

XX99 is also driving some people crazy

(Like me)

[fast dew]

It just made me mildly upset because Albrecht never mentioned it

[strange turtle]

Even though everything else, including the rest of the very texts that use the term timelines, acknowledges that its not different timelines

[proven spire]

I never said that lol

[frank galleon]

if i was an awesome cardinal in xx99 you best believe id be telling everyone

[fast dew]

.. you called it a paramilitary. Thats... what i mean

[stiff fable]

Albrecht's almost certainly seeded the timeline with a few dozen similar things

[fast dew]

No like. Why did he never mention kidnapping a whole ass orokin

[hazy prism]

Does DE have like a dedicated "lore dev" that basically manages all this stuff or the writers the ones cooking all this stuff?

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/canon-event-lochan-bwefi-lochan-bwefi-spiderman-gif-1748690152864391590

[lean garden]

you mean a writer?

[proven spire]

Yes i only called them a paramilitary organization lmao

[stiff fable]

no, they have a fairly broad pool of writers

1999 was suggested as a half-joke at a Tim Horton's

[fast dew]

... which are common in fascist regimes.

[frank galleon]

well i guess the problem was resolved insofar as marie and flagellant guy watching over him

[proven spire]

Which regimes exactly

[stiff fable]

the KIM conversations are all written by one person, but she's more of an outside contractor

[strange plinth]

which is how we had Executor Nihil for a year

[lean garden]

yknow the SS?

[fast dew]

.... oh so you're being dense dense. Ight.

[stiff fable]

Mussolini's Italy is the original

[proven spire]

Do you know what paramilitary is

[stiff fable]

Spread from there to Germany and Spain

[proven spire]

Yes he wrote the whole thing he practically invented it

[hazy prism]

well they would be a writer as well, but specifically like what Michael Koji Fox does for FFXIV, basically a person who's job it is to make the lore cohesive and consistent. I doubt DE has the need for that right now, but it helps with keep things easier to understand

[stiff fable]

still laughing about how that must have fallen out

[fast dew]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_paramilitary

Need i say more or is the whole Wikipedia article not enough.

[lean garden]

I was wondering why the SS werent in the screenshot and then I realised they were the highlight of the paragraph leading to the list

[fast dew]

Mhm. Didn't include it for some reason, should've done that

[proven spire]

So all paramilitaries are fascists?

[stiff fable]

No, but all fascist movements are paramilitary

[lean garden]

not even close to what thomas said lol

[frank galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[fast dew]

I am getting increasingly worried about why you are so adamant to defend a Fascist, albeit fictional, regime.

[pale cedar]

I wonder if there’s a single fascist regime without a paramilitary

[proven spire]

Who says i’m defending them lol

[frank galleon]

scaldra

[hazy prism]

Scaldra are paramilitary

[fast dew]

... you are refusing to accept that the scaldra are a fascist paramilitary regime. Certainly feels like defending.

[pale cedar]

Stormfall units lol

[fast dew]

We literally fight their military 😭

Their leader is literally a military member

[proven spire]

I’m not refusing anything, in fact i’m just asking questions lol

[pale cedar]

They literally parachute from the sky too

[fast dew]

Major Neci Rulsalka.

[proven spire]

Parachute military

The scaldra come in parachutes

[strange turtle]

No they’re a fascist paramilitary without a regime

Well, without a regime yet, they’re still getting the application forms done and everything formalised but understandably not a lot of people are on board with it

[fast dew]

Lieutenant Viktor Vodyanoi too

[proven spire]

Damn

[lean garden]

its a lil hard to gain consent when your main competitor is a supercharged virus

[strange plinth]

pick your poison, i suppose

[fast dew]

Or pick entrati!

[frank galleon]

Neci is totally gone after the hex quest isnt she

[proven spire]

Are the orokin fascist

[fast dew]

Least he aint a fascist or a hivemind.

[stiff fable]

iirc Scaldra's acting as a replacement government for Hollvania

Or they're in the process of subverting it

[strange plinth]

taken by the indifference to duviri, yes

[strange turtle]

I pick the Techrot. It might kill me but at least it’ll do so lovingly ☺️

[stiff fable]

wellllll not really

That's not actually Neci, after all...

[fast dew]

We kinda kicked her out, no clue how she got into duviri

[stiff fable]

Taken though, yes

[strange turtle]

No Neci’s still in there

Not much left but, still a bit there

[fast dew]

No clue how anyone really got into duviri

[stiff fable]

Oh, she is, but she mentions that it's not even her real body

[proven spire]

A fascist in duviri

[strange turtle]

Ah, must’ve missed that line

[pale cedar]

Wally was in Duviri before Isleweaver

[stiff fable]

The Vagabond's Wally's original Duviri avatar

[pale cedar]

Wally has been to Duviri many times before Isleweaver

[fast dew]

Did Albrecht just throw himself into the void again and again until he hit duviri

[strange turtle]

Wait tf happened to her old one

[stiff fable]

It's more.... a projection? Or something?

[pale cedar]

Probably just had a Void portal it works for everyone else

[stiff fable]

Wally's kinda using her as a Warframe, is the way I heard it described

[strange plinth]

does she? i'll have to look at the lines again
its still her, though, in some manner. gives us the second half of the password and occasionally speaks as herself

[strange turtle]

~~Thrax found the bell at the edge of the undercroft and thought it’d be a cool toy to show the drifter ~~

[fast dew]

No thats so cute though

[stiff fable]

Also yeah Albrecht threw himself into the Void after the Cavia thing

It was a suicide/appeasement attempt

He hit Duviri instead, and hearing Euleria's messages and meeting Thrax (and Drifter) is what made him decide to fight the Indifference properly

[fast dew]

...Where the shit did that come from???

[frank galleon]

are we given any explanation on how tf that jackal boss gets into duviri other than teshin just being like "oh yeah it turned up here"

[stiff fable]

Nope lol

Though, it's a Corrupted Jackal...?

[fast dew]

I figured he just. Hid there from shame

https://tenor.com/view/headache-my-head-hurts-headache-cat-gif-14622281057500278312

[proven spire]

They conceptual embodied the reworked bossfight into duviri

[stiff fable]

I knew, then, that my gambit had lost. So long as I worked through scapegoats, my guilt would only deepen. I must atone for what I had done through my own blood.```

[strange plinth]

i'd argue this one says the opposite, but still looking
Neci Rusalka: "You really want me to spit this body out? With how chewed up she is?"

[frank galleon]

is it? the other duviri forces do bolster it but also teshin warns of it sending data back to the corpus

[stiff fable]

It is yeah

[fast dew]

Well mucking hell.

[stiff fable]

The implication isn't clear unless you pull it out of context

At which point it's like "OH"

[frank galleon]

when the cavia spoke voidtongue were they actually praising the man in the wall or could he just not understand lol

[stiff fable]

what's the difference

[proven spire]

They regressed

[fast dew]

Figured it was just him actually just.. doing what he needed to do, which was use himself instead 😭

[fast dew]

Unlikely, Albrecht likely thought it due to his paranoia.

[frank galleon]

bird 3 was probably just yapping away

[stiff fable]

The really freaky bit is what comes next

Albrecht doesn't think he can translate the Voidtongue

The Voidtongue was an enigma to me, but another – more habituated to the Void than I – might one day unravel it.

and yet he's the one who creates the gargoyle after all

[proven spire]

Maybe the player can translate it

[pale cedar]

From the little we know of it the Cavia weren’t praising Wally just saying stuff to us in their gifted language

[strange plinth]

idk albrecht we don't seem to be able to agree on "mara" so...

[proven spire]

Because of the ingame ui

[lean garden]

I mean, all albrecht needs is a bandcamp lyric drop

[fast dew]

More knowledge later on, likely.

[fast dew]

Guessing it's between child or demon methinks

[pale cedar]

Who’s gonna tell Albrecht we know more about Voidtounge than him?

[fast dew]

I don't think he would particularly care. He anticipated it

[strange plinth]

walk up to albrecht, say a full sentence in voidtongue, maybe get shot again

[fast dew]

Hed probably just give you back to loid 😭

[stiff fable]

I think DE's playing some games with it

[proven spire]

The hex and the triad got me speaking voidtongue aha

[fast dew]

Puts us in a shopping bag, hands it to Loid, and just runs off again

[stiff fable]

If Wally's close enough to Albrecht that the lab guardians and Oraxia confuse him for Albrecht, then Wally's close enough to Wally to finally understand Voidtongue

[pale cedar]

Think his poems will ever come true?
We certainly got close to sky and earth being aflame in TNW

[frank galleon]

i just realised the jahu gargoyle is a combination of the cavia

[fast dew]

Mhm. Just now?

[frank galleon]

well ive only actually looked at it now

[fast dew]

"It's heralds are the stars it fells" certainly feels true enough.

[frank galleon]

i dont remember it havin g that big old norg head in the quest

[stiff fable]

it does, it's just hard to see it for what it is in-game

It's much more obvious on the clan statue

[fast dew]

It was obvious to me on the second playthrough 😭

[pale cedar]

We were certainly beheld by that which bares no name

[strange plinth]

it took me a while too tbf
i don't think i paid much attention to the cavia the first time i played the quest, and then i didn't pay attention to the gargolye on replays to notice

[proven spire]

The gargoyle splits into three

[fast dew]

I specifically paid attention to the gargoyle while waiting for Albrecht to say his lines

[stiff fable]

One last thing before I take off, I think I know what Albrecht's playing at with the time travel

[pale cedar]

I miss the Gargoyle being able to speak in dojo

[stiff fable]

He's trying to change history indirectly

[strange plinth]

i'd glance at it and think 'ye what a weird lil guy :)' and not much else

[fast dew]

It used to muckin speak?

[stiff fable]

Avoiding the grandfather paradox

[pale cedar]

Yes

[stiff fable]

It was fibonacci

He'd tell you how awful your dojo's design and colors were