lore-discussion

[stray herald]

bruh???

[restive river]

Ok so the thing with seven deadly sin characters is that you have to be consistent
So are they embodying or suffering from them

[pale cedar]

Rebbs favourite character is also blue

[restive river]

With the line from him though, I’m suspicious

Likely nothing but y’know
I noticed a slight pattern lol

[stray herald]

looking at my criteria, it would be their greatest act, or the action that caused the most influence throughout history

[restive river]

||also not saying they’ll end up together, he’s single or with us, that’s it||

[tall echo]

I'm blanking on the 7th sin I can only remember gluttony greed pride wrath lust sloth

[stray herald]

ballas got whiny bc Marge paid more attention to the tenno

[restive river]

Envy

[tall echo]

That's a very unreliable criteria

[tall echo]

Oh. Ballas.

[strange plinth]

Ballas fits envy the best i think, yea

[tall echo]

Ballas has a bit of every sin except sloth tbh

[restive river]

What would Scarne be based on what we know, I’m guessing we may just not know enough though

[stray herald]

true

[tall echo]

Oh also no gluttony

[pale cedar]

We know nothing

[restive river]

I mean they likely all do, they’re not literally those sins

[restive river]

We know something
||I got a kimchat bout him||

[pale cedar]

What do we know?

[strange plinth]

you could say that him sitting up on the narmer throne is his dip into sloth. sitting back n doing whatever until we show back up
but there's not much weight there

[strange turtle]

Part 1/Pre-OP

[restive river]

||he was the one who posited the idea they needed to leave and inaugurated the void towers, it sounds like he was a cautious coward|| kim spoilers

[frail harness]

I think Ballas is more pride than envy

[strange turtle]

There was a Uriel in Old Peace, and they were his unit

[restive river]

Me when I sit down and embody sloth

[stray herald]

he does that a lot, like with yareli bc she disrespected the yuvan theatre or smth

[humble sierra]

He sided with the Sentients because Margulis wasn't "his" anymore

[restive river]

If they bring Ballas back he should die in the same quest he comes back in

[strange plinth]

hence the 'not much weight there'
whether or not that's actually representative of sloth depends entirely on how long that timeskip was

[stray herald]

maybe in old peace echoes update?

[restive river]

Yeah lol

[humble sierra]

Then again, he made Fortuna sing about him

[restive river]

What why would that be then lol

[stray herald]

idk for funnsies

[frail harness]

To me, in my opinion, envy is wanting what other people have. Pride is wanting what you think you deserve. Ballas wants what he thinks he deserves, he thinks himself above others

[tall echo]

Well, the gold leg and stupid hat probably added some weight

[strange turtle]

And Margulis wasn’t his anymore because of his pride

[restive river]

Old Peace is about exploring the past, Ballas has no purpose beyond he was there
We can’t change anything so we wouldn’t be able to kill him

[strange plinth]

hit him with the final wars zilla treatment
-# i have no idea if that reference will land in the slightest but i make it regardless

[frail harness]

This too

[tall echo]

And envy

[stray herald]

bring back the fact that he made lotus his trophy wife

or natah I can't tell

[humble sierra]

Margulis just focused more on the children, she didn't loathe Ballas or anything

Until the end

[stray herald]

bc ballas got jealous

[restive river]

Oh no
She paid attention to anything else!

[frail harness]

She hurt his pride

Or, more accurately, the tenno did

[stray herald]

she hurt his vegeta

[restive river]

Eh

[tall echo]

Nah

[humble sierra]

Ballas probably embodies the 7 sins himself, it'll be easier to narrow it down if we know what the others are and learn what he is via process of elimination, assuming this theory is actually something they considered

[restive river]

All she did was have a conscience and care for the children
Ballas was just mad she wasn’t loving only him

[stray herald]

I was for this the last time I talked about this

[restive river]

Only 3 left that have an unknown status

[tall echo]

Ballas is big envy vibes

[restive river]

All the Orokin are prideful

[frail harness]

As I said, I think Envy is wanting what others have, while Pride is wanting what you think you deserve. Ballas has a few jealous acts but every sin he commits, everyone he mistreats or talks down to or manipulates, is because of his pride

[restive river]

This dude looks chalk full of pride
But again, you can say that for all of them

[humble sierra]

My god he's glorious

[tall echo]

Nihil getting demoted makes it much harder to pin down wrath

[restive river]

He still had her love tho

[frail harness]

They're also all greedy whats your point? If we'll disregard candidates because other orokin emblify the sins also then assigning signs to the Seven at all is entirely redundant

[tall echo]

Dam

[pale cedar]

I wonder what Albrecht’s sin is don’t see anyone talking about that much if ever

[tall echo]

It is redundant

[tall echo]

He's not an executor

[restive river]

I mean it very well could be redundant lol
Nothing actually says they are factually the seven sins.

[pale cedar]

Still Orokin

[restive river]

It’s an observation that works for some but not for all, it in of itself is flawed

[frail harness]

Exactly, so I think its dumb to just say "ballas cant be pride" because theyre all prideful lol

Out of the executors we know anything about, Ballas fits pride best

[tall echo]

The debate about sins is mainly about the seven bc yk

[tall echo]

Tuvul maybe

[frail harness]

Tuvul to me seems more like greed but pride is a valid read of it too

[stray herald]

VM: NITOKH
Transcript: Her madness was seductive because it was obvious.

One always knew where one stood with her - right on the precipice of the great abyss.

Leap in, her eyes said to me, gleaming with the joy of some colossal cosmic joke.

Through her demented visions I could escape the long, bleak stagnation of Orokin existence.

All our senses had been glutted to numbness centuries ago. Yet she was still, in her way, fresh.

Eternal. Limitless in her hunger. She summoned me to her bath one evening. I strode across the mingling puddles of perfumed water and blood and stood dutifully to attention.

“I’m bored, Roathe. Let’s kill all the other Orokin and take over.”

[pale cedar]

Don’t need seven to find a sin in one

[frail harness]

See how easy it is to just not dismiss something lol

[stray herald]

still all in on nitokh the gluttony

[frail harness]

I agree Nitohk has features that fit gluttony but I think its hard for her to take that place when Karishh is known exclusively for eating

Like for the others its all very subjective but Karishh specifically is known for eating

[stray herald]

that seems to be his most common trait but what about his more influential actions as an executor?

[pale cedar]

Dying?

[tall echo]

Again, unreliable criteria

[restive river]

Just in case you wanted a visual to try and tie more things to them

[frail harness]

Roathe even describes (in the excerpt you sent) that one should always be cautious because youre always on rocky ground with Nitohk, I think thats very Wrathful

[restive river]

I mean you can also just say that about any Orokin

[strange turtle]

Ballas seems especially like the “Vainglory” aspect of Pride (another Sin that got lumped in with it due to their similarities), especially since it was viewed as what envy came from

[restive river]

The reality of it is we don’t really know enough about most of the Seven

[frail harness]

We have been over this. All orokin having traits of the sin does not mean you cant argue one of the seven symbolise it

[strange plinth]

i just wanna know if tuvul requested the ball or if the artist put it there on their own

[tall echo]

Who's the old guy

[frail harness]

Otherwise literally all of the sins are unable to be attributed to any

[restive river]

My guess is Scarne

[stray herald]

I would accept ur claim if u expand on why rather than a reductive sentence

[pale cedar]

They’re all old

[restive river]

I mean you’re trying to apply the sins to them under the basis that they’re all based on the sins in some way, which is a theory at most

[fast dew]

Id argue this would be lust

[tall echo]

If someone killed one person but aside from that never did anything remotely similar, would you say that person is wrathful

[frail harness]

In order: Avantus, Nitohk, Tuvul, Tormis, Scarne, Karishh, Ballas

[restive river]

We are missing vital info about a majority of the Seven, I’m not so sure we can nail them all for this theiry with what we have presently

[frail harness]

It didnt reply for some reason

[frail harness]

Yeah but we can place the ones we know about

[strange plinth]

agh, two seconds faster than i

[frail harness]

For instance given what we know id argue Avantus is 100% sloth, she died trying to sacrifice others to save her own skin and do nothing

[restive river]

Yeah, but it’s still a theory that may or may not even be true

[frail harness]

Yeah but we're doing a hypothetical

[tall echo]

Ha, funny phrasing

[restive river]

They all display varying amounts of the sins, that’s kinda just the Orokin

[frail harness]

We obviously know its a theory that doesnt matter to a hypothetical

Your stance against the hypothetical cant be "But thats just a hypothesis!" Lol

[stray herald]

who's to say if said wrath is directed towards a singular person ?

[magic turtle]

Crack theory: adis was part of Hunhow's hive

[frail harness]

Nitohk feels most like wrath or lust

[restive river]

My stance is they all display these traits to varying degree and am unsure if the theory actually works due to our limited info

[tall echo]

Evading the question

[stray herald]

so I would say, depends on the context

[frail harness]

Yeah but we're still participating in the hypothetical for fun, like I said

If you disagree with the theory by all means feel free to not engage with it

[restive river]

Like we can say Karrish is gluttony but we don’t really know since we know a single thing about him
If they all are attributed to sins then yeah he probably is but my point is our limited information

[restive river]

I can disagree and engage tho

[tall echo]

But the murder is the most impactful action, surely they embody wrath because of that

[restive river]

That’s called a discussion

[frail harness]

Not really? We are going "Its probably not true but what sins would the seven represent if they did?" If your response is "they dont" then you arent engaging with the conversation, youre just disagreeing

[restive river]

I’m sorry if anything I’ve said has been or come across as disrespectful, that’s not my goal
I’m just unsure on the validity of the theory due to our limited info

[frail harness]

We arent trying to argue that its valid

[tall echo]

It's just a fun thing

[magic turtle]

I'm more concerned about ... The emperors. Like why are they never mentioned in oaths. Are they essentially below the seven?

[frail harness]

We are basing a hypothesis off of the idea that it may be

[tall echo]

Newly revived lore aspect

[stray herald]

if the motives fit the description of wrath, like say, for personal agenda, yes. if it's for servitude or loyalty like an assassination appointed by a higher power, then no

[restive river]

Yeah
I can still shade doubt on it cause I’m not seeing it entirely

[magic turtle]

I think one valid argument for the executors being sins would be the Vauban trailer. Where balas mentions that lust was his sin

[tall echo]

Do you not see how that might be a very reductive/unreliable criteria

[frail harness]

But like my point is that we arent discussing the validity of it, so a stance on its validity isnt relevant

[magic turtle]

But again, this is all we have

[restive river]

Knowing what we know about him I’m not sure lust was even his sin, he legit loved Margulis

[restive river]

Ok

[frail harness]

If we were discussing how society may differ if blood was green (random example but its one i hear discussed quite a bit, its an interesting topic), going "blood isnt green" isnt adding anything or contributing anything to what is actively being discussed

I dont mean to sound rude, its just that we are having a conversation that is entirely removed from how true we think the sins theory is

I for one dont really see it with the little we know, if that tie was planned itd be more apparent

[restive river]

I’m not trying to just say “oh they arent that” I’m trying to say I’m not sure I see it since we lack vital info

[frail harness]

However its more fun to contemplate which of the seven would fit which sin

But again your skepticism is of a thing we arent discussing

Most of us have said in this very convo that we're skeptical of its validity as well

[restive river]

Then we’re good then
My bad lol

[stray herald]

I'm afraid I do not. since the answer I gave was looking at nuances. if the hints provided by the context say its most likely of subject A than that of subject B, I would point that out and as I have did so in your hypothetical question and in my nitokh analysis

[magic turtle]

He loved a vision of her. He lusted for her shape, wanted a behavior he found charming. If she deviated, he would hurt her. That's what he did to the lotus

[restive river]

I desperately hope we get more info on the rest of the Seven

[restive river]

No he like
Actually legit loved her, he only got weird when she cared for anything else other than him at the same time

[magic turtle]

And lust doesn't just take the lust of flesh

Lust for power, lust for revenge, lust for validation

[restive river]

|| Roathe: It was not just lust, for he could have whomever he wished - and did, quite often. If he wanted her, he could have simply had her and been done with her. (RoatheRank2Convo2 • ||

[frail harness]

Thats about Ballas

[stray herald]

besides, we current have no right or wrong answer, just likely and unlikely, and I like to point my finger towards an answer I have concluded bc talking about character motifs when the full story of the characters being discussed is not at all complete

[restive river]

Yeah we’re talking about Ballas and Margulis

[frail harness]

The one thing we learned about Ballas from roathe is that he didnt love margulis because of lust lol

[restive river]

They’re making the claim his sin was lust cause he said it was

[frail harness]

Im still very much in the Ballas being Pride camp

[tall echo]

You explained your criteria earlier to be only the characters most impactful action, which doesn't leave much space for nuance

[magic turtle]

I'm saying that's the only valid argument for the seven deadly sins theory

[frail harness]

To be entirely honest my discord lagged and the only new message that showed up was yours lol the rest only just appeared when I reopened it

[magic turtle]

And again, lust doesn't necessarily take the form of flesh

[restive river]

I mean not really
Karrish is right there

[magic turtle]

Vengeance, power, bloodshed

[frail harness]

Actually I think the most compelling evidence for the deadly sins theory is that theres seven of them and one really likes to eat LOL

[restive river]

This is all Karrish’s fault

[magic turtle]

Or in ballas's case.... Control

[restive river]

Make Grendel eat him again

[tall echo]

The Only Thing I Know For Real

[stray herald]

why is that? because I was vague in what sort of impact? if so, I meant towards pushing the story forward

[tall echo]

Still doesn't leave room for nuance

[magic turtle]

Ballas wanted control, he craved it, he lusted for it

[restive river]

Ok but you were specifically talking about Margulis in terms of lust

“He loved a vision of her. He lusted for her shape, wanted a behavior he found charming. If she deviated, he would hurt her. That's what he did to the lotus”

[magic turtle]

That's simply if we talked about how his lust would be directed at lotus

But in general, his lust for control is what made him fall so mad

[restive river]

Ok but you see how I would interpret it that way lmao

Based upon what you had said and claiming he felt lust for Margulis ||when we have an unbiased source telling us their relationship was not lust
Ballas loved her, wholly and truly but it turned rotten over time||

[frail harness]

I wouldnt exactly call Roathe unbiased, quite the contrary, but i still agree he's right about Ballas

[tall echo]

Well, not entirely unbiased

[frail harness]

Actually no that was a bit argumentative of me

[strange plinth]

least biased source we have so far, though

[frail harness]

Roathe is definetly unbiased about Ballas, he has no reason to have bias for him, so actually I agree

In this context roathe is more or less unbiased

[restive river]

I mean unbiased since he has no reason to lie about it lol

[frail harness]

Im sorry for disagreeing hastily

[stray herald]

the nuance is in the motives. if an underlying factor is what pushed for the action to be completed, then I would dwell on it.

but coming back to nitokh, most of the info came from roathe, her closest confidant/partner? Therefore his comments on her holds a lot of weight. since he described her psychology as being 'fresh' compared to the rest of the orokin accompanied by her 'hunger'. I say that points towards an empty stomach.

and her greatest action was breaking the old peace due to her growing bored of the peace then. spiritually speaking, she was hungry for conflict/former orokin dynamics

[restive river]

Something is very wrong with discord rn 😭

[stray herald]

wuh

[restive river]

No you’re good
I should have used a better word tbh

[restive river]

My messages just were not sending at all for a bit

[stray herald]

ok

[magic turtle]

But what about within the context of lust for control

[frail harness]

In the definitions of the deadly sins im pretty sure lust is specifically the s*xual kind

Censoring that makes me cringe but I am at the whim of warframe automod

[stray herald]

lol

[magic turtle]

XD

[pale cedar]

Ballas is the only Orokin to mention a sin

[magic turtle]

Tbf DE does like to do things unconventionally

[frail harness]

Shit is allowed but saying sx/sxual in any capacity(even in terms of a creature's biological s*x) gets auto-deleted and you get told off for bad language

😭

[restive river]

I think you’re right that they’d go with that
Cause I feel you fould make the same argument about lust fir Ballas as you could gluttony or greed for him
He wanted power either way

[magic turtle]

From personality though, the executor roathe was directly under definitely fits wrath imo

[restive river]

Roathe wasn’t an executor

[magic turtle]

The executor that had roathe on a leash

[pale cedar]

Roathe was vice regent grand Cardnus

[magic turtle]

That roathe was a lackey to

[restive river]

Oh sorry I’m tired lmao

[frail harness]

Yeah, I think taking them a tad bit more literally is more potent for the kind of discussion we're having. Me personally I place Ballas firmly in Pride, but I get the Envy reading of his character

[stray herald]

u just had to say the full title lol

[strange plinth]

isn't it carnus

[frail harness]

It is

[pale cedar]

Autocorrect being annoying lol

[frail harness]

Fake fan doesnt know that Roathe is the Vice Regent Grand Carnus ™

[magic turtle]

I think the lore is very interesting

[restive river]

Agreed
I think Karrish is the golden boy of this theory since he’s very obvious and I wanna say is the reason the theory exists at all (though I’m sure someone tried to make a connection the moment we knew there were seven of the Seven)

[frail harness]

Afaik this theory predates Karishh lore, I think its entirely just because theres seven of them lol

[restive river]

Lmao
I can see Karrish popularizing it more if nothing else

I’m sure someone was very happy about their theory getting more evidence with him

[strange plinth]

its not surprising tbh
seven important figures being immediately tied to the seven sins is not a new thing afaik

[restive river]

Also them being evil

[frail harness]

So far my only moment like this was predicting basically every main story beat when I was first playing 🥀

I was STUPID and didn't predict the quests before they came out

💔

[magic turtle]

Doesn't mean I don't wanna dip ballas in gasoline and set him on fire

[restive river]

I wonder if the Lords of Tau, if there are seven of them, represent the seven virtues

[magic turtle]

Or make him the descendia boss and kill him over and over again

[restive river]

Oh we all do

There isn’t even a line we will gladly take turns

[strange plinth]

its the people that don't want to do that that i am afraid of

[frail harness]

Like i called lotus being a sentient and felt so proud of myself and went to talk about it online before realising "oh yea.. everyone knows already" 😭

[restive river]

Lol

[magic turtle]

The ballas simps

The ones who wish they were margulis

Yes, they exist, yes they terrify me

[restive river]

Whoever simps for Ballas ain’t a tenno

[magic turtle]

They all be like "I can fix him"

I'm hoping hunhow follows us to Tau tho

[restive river]

Bruh they couldn’t fix the owner of twitter let alone balls

[restive river]

He’s stuck at the bottom of a methane sea
Maybe we can take a fragment though?

Bring Broken War or just War and boom
Grandpa in Tau

If War is fed a xenoflora would it become independent?

[magic turtle]

OR he's our ticket to tau and we rescue him

[strange plinth]

would require a quick method that isn't void travel
..of which, i don't think we've found any
otherwise he'll take a while

[strange plinth]

probably

[pale cedar]

They fixed the owner of twitter in Warframe ||by destroying the Internet||

[restive river]

Will Lotus even be able to go with us?? We’ll be using the rail probably so

[magic turtle]

I feel like yes

Would like new sentient allies too

[restive river]

I feel like no unless we supply sufficient shielding

[strange plinth]

she was able to stand at the end of the great indifference without completely dissolving
she might be a little void resistant

[restive river]

On the trip over the sentients had Praghsa to shield them

[magic turtle]

But also, I think at some point sentients gained sentience without the xenoflora

[stray herald]

why was marge blinded?

[hollow siren]

Natah is a Greater Sentient, she can host her own Hivemind

[restive river]

They were starting to but the xenoflora helped so so much

[hollow siren]

One of the Tenno accidentally burnt her, theorized to be Rell

[magic turtle]

It could have been rell... Or us.

[hollow siren]

"Sorry! Touching is too much 'noise'. It makes me... it makes me angry."

[pale cedar]

Or any of the other 1000 or so Tenno

[restive river]

It seems it’s specifically the xenoflora that makes fragments independent and sentient
While sentients like Hunhow or Praghsa were already sentient by the time they got there

[frail harness]

I doubt its rell. Makes it seem like she cast him out for that, which she didnt. I more prefer the idea that some random tenno did it and she just forgave them

Rell was cast out for the voices ™

[strange plinth]

rell evidence primarily comes from chains, us evidence primarily comes from isleweaver i believe

[restive river]

That we had too

[hollow siren]

yeah true

[pale cedar]

Margulis just hates Rell

[hollow siren]

Rell was cast out cause children often are not very kind to autistic children

[magic turtle]

The voices were too strong in rell's case. She did it to shield the rest of the children

[frail harness]

Maybe since they were the only strong ones that existed at first, they kinda cemented themselves as heads of hiveminds and thus arent susceptible to turning rabid and conforming to one?

Like they got registered as the leaders and that supercedes the hivemind reliance

[hollow siren]

Xenoflora seem to make Fragments sapient, yeah

[frail harness]

Admin pass to the sentient hivemind

[restive river]

I think the difference is literally in whole sentients who don’t need xenoflora and through fragments are a hivemind and the fragments that consumed xenoflora and became independent

[magic turtle]

I do think that the sentient hivemind is used for the veils

[pale cedar]

There’s a bunch of people in both servers who seem to think without it they’ll die

[restive river]

And without the xenoflora the fragments are just machines, prone to the hivemind but also to anything done to said hivemind

[frail harness]

Do we know for sure what separates a fragment from a full one? Im not as well versed on the sentients

[restive river]

Well that’s just not true lol

[frail harness]

Is a fragment just any sentient made by other sentients rather than the first 'generation' of sentients?

[strange plinth]

tbf Rell was also probably trying to seek out the voices. his whole "someone to figure out" thing at the end of the comic, then he's thrown out, then we find him in Harrow

[hollow siren]

worker ants vs. ant queen, the anthill is the hivemind

[restive river]

Just a smaller piece of themselves that they can interact through, like Hunhow with War or Natah and all mimics

[frail harness]

Yeah but like occasionally new ant Queens can be born

[restive river]

Like Natah!

[hollow siren]

yes, as we see with Erra and Natah

they're Greater Sentients

[frail harness]

Does the same not go for sentients? I was under the impression Adis would be susceptible to being low on xenoflora as well but I dont know

[pale cedar]

Natah was a pawn

[hollow siren]

the Sentient Beasts might be too, but it's also possible Pazuul is currently just kinda hi-jacking Erra's Hivemind capacity

[magic turtle]

But greater sentients can still be consumed, like with pazul's case

[restive river]

Fragments are separate but not independent entities until they take in xenoflora

[frail harness]

Adis can 100% consume xenoflora, so is he a fragment or does he just not need them but still eats them?

[hollow siren]

Adis would be, as far as we know he's not a Greater Sentient

[strange plinth]

he is similar to the dactolyst, probably a fragment

[restive river]

All sentients can likely eat them, but he may have been a fragment

[magic turtle]

Would be mad funny if adis was part of hunhow

[frail harness]

What exactly made him able to heal?

[restive river]

||it’s hinted that there may be more like him so||

[frail harness]

I think i just missed a bit about Adis specifically

[hollow siren]

I mean technically all Sentients are by extension

[magic turtle]

Like,think about it, we were best friends with hunhow? Wild

[restive river]

Good question!

Could just be the type of sentient he is

[frail harness]

Was he tied to the void in some way? I know it usually kills sentients but yknow, would explain why his power stayed with us forever

[hollow siren]

Unknown. We just know it's a rare gift among Sentients according to Lotus, likely a "one born every 100+ years" type beat

[frail harness]

Maybe Adis is to sentients what the Tenno are to humans

[restive river]

A repair or medic type of fragment that got some xenoflora and is now wholly independent

[hollow siren]

We have no more info than you do

[pale cedar]

Human

[magic turtle]

It was mentioned that he was a rare subspecies of sentient, so maybe he is close to being a greater sentient but also maybe he was an experimental sentient made with void energy

[pale cedar]

Tenno are still human

[restive river]

This reminds me
||after the xenoflora die and Adis gets angry his eyes turn red, not orange but red like the traditional sentient red coloring. He was probably just angry but I did find it somewhat odd and can def see someone making the theory someone was controlling him since he had no xenoflora left (which ofc he then does not have red eyes later which dismantles the theory lmao)||

[frail harness]

Didn't that racist little encephalon guy call Adis "Void-lugger"?

[frail harness]

You are misunderstanding what I said

I know tenno are humans lol

[restive river]

He did

Daklo the bigot

[magic turtle]

I killed the bigot

[frail harness]

I said "maybe adis is to the sentients what tenno are to humans", as in void-touched members of their respective species. I know tenno are human

[restive river]

I got info out of him and then killed him, calling him a bigot

[magic turtle]

SAME

[strange plinth]

i think its funny that the second 'kill' option has you straight-up call him a bigot

[restive river]

Sentients can’t be void touched

[pale cedar]

Most humans don’t even know Tenno child exists

[frail harness]

Sentients arent typically associated with the void, right? It kills them, so I feel void-lugger doesnt make sense unless Adis is tied to the void. Adis was in the tauron academy, learning the ways Tenno do.

[restive river]

It’d be like being radiation touched

[frail harness]

Not that we know of

[restive river]

The void is their literal built in weakness.

[magic turtle]

But... Can we really believe that? For all we know the indifference circumvented that for purely experimental reasons

For pure enjoyment

[restive river]

Yes, we can.

[pale cedar]

They were build in with the weakness with only one way to be cured and that cure isn’t on Tau

[frail harness]

We also dont know of other sentients that can undo death so I think its a valid hypothesis to at least theorise that Adis manipulates void energy in some way

I think its a little dismissive to just say "not possible"

Adis was specifically learning the ways of the tenno in the tenno school using powers the tenno was able to absorb and keep, and he was referred to as "void-lugger"

[restive river]

I mean
Archon shards

Lotus literally came back from death

[frail harness]

Has an archon shard ever revived a human?

[restive river]

She was an Eidolon and then we fixed her

[frail harness]

Cause adis did

[restive river]

Ballas ate one and got more powerful but that’s about it

[frail harness]

He was half sentient at that point

[pale cedar]

It definitely could revive a human

[frail harness]

I think adis Manipulating void energy in some way is an idea that has merit

[restive river]

The archon shards are sentient tech with anti-entropic properties, likely how they empower and can revive sentients

[frail harness]

Archon shards are made of non-entropic radiation, that isnt the same as anti-entropic

[restive river]

A source of anti-entropic radiation ideal for empowering synthetic lifeforms, most notably Archons and Warframes.

[pale cedar]

If it can revive an Archon which are in grafted on Warframes

Reviving a human is a a safe assumption

[frail harness]

Damn maybe im stupid

Anyway I still think adis has void powers

[magic turtle]

You think Amar is angry at the tenno thinking we betrayed him?

Which is why he's an archon?

[restive river]

No you’re fine lol i thought I forgot the exact description and had to check lol

[frail harness]

Evidently I did

[pale cedar]

Adis literally can’t have Void powers

[restive river]

Yeah he can’t really due to being a sentient, nothing really points at him having void powers
If he was healing through the void then that would just harm his sentient allies

[frail harness]

But the fact that Adis was being taught the way of tenno at the tenno school Tauron Academy, and the fact that the Operator absorbed Adis' healing power to use forever, and Daklo gave him a 'nickname'(lets call it that) relating to the void, all make me really think adis has void powers in some way

[frail harness]

Open your mind

[pale cedar]

Being taught about ways doesn’t mean you can use them

[restive river]

Adis was like us cause he was at school with us and had his own version of a Warframe

[frail harness]

I also wouldve assumed a sentient cant just effortlessly revive a human lol things get weird in warframe

I wouldnt so hastily claim that a sentient cannot be involved with the void in any way without dying

Infact several have survived

[restive river]

Considering it’s their literal only poison?

[restive river]

Those that survived have barren wombs.

It’s
Literally an always toxic substance to them

[pale cedar]

Even the hunhulis is Sentient

[frail harness]

Yeah but tauron taught the tenno how to hone their powers. The ultimate art of your focus school is literally your Tauron Strike

[restive river]

Yes, using sentient and tenno ideals the tenno specifically can use the strikes

[pale cedar]

It’s Tenno knowledge being applied differently never Tenno powers

[restive river]

Adis does not use the strikes

[frail harness]

Pretty sure that one sentient teacher even mentions the ways of the tenno being taught, and thats what he quizzes Adis on

[restive river]

Yeah

[frail harness]

I do not think it is farfetched to assume Adis' powers are linked to the void

[pale cedar]

Anyone can be taught something

[restive river]

They’re also just good ideals to have for combat lol

[strange turtle]

They’re above the Seven but mostly seem ornamental. They were originally the Orokin rulers, but then that got seemingly retconned into the council of Executors and they never came up again after their single mention, but then they decided to bring them back

[pale cedar]

Doesn’t mean they can use it

[frail harness]

Otherwise I really dont see how the operator just absorbs and keeps those powers when Adis dies

[restive river]

It is when the void is the sentient’s literal weakness

[lean garden]

I wont disagree there

[frail harness]

Yeah, as far as we know

[lean garden]

because

MY WONDERFUL CRACKPOT THEORY THAT SENTIENT SENTIENCE IS VOID-BASED RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[restive river]

It’s their built in weakness-

[frail harness]

Let's not act like that can never change in the narrative of the game, the void is always bending to fit the stories they want to tell

[restive river]

How does the xenoflora fit into that?
Ik it only effects the fragments but still

[frail harness]

The sentients have already made a business out of ignoring what they were built for

[pale cedar]

Nothing in the quest mentions Adis having Tenno powers

[stray herald]

didn't Quinn say smth about there being powers other than the void? like they did take power but not from the void, smth along those lines

[lean garden]

Xenoflora, its blue, its got spores, it makes sentient minds...

[lean garden]

https://tenor.com/view/dune-the-spice-spice-spice-must-flow-gif-6071362693171625335

[restive river]

It could, but they’d def have to explain why a sect of sentients just lack an entire weakness randomly

[pale cedar]

A built in weakness mind you

[restive river]

Blue…
Void is blue..
The flowers are the void /j

[frail harness]

I mean, I dont think thats much weirder than a sect of sentients just having healing/reviving powers randomly lol

[lean garden]

I havent wrote that off just yet

[strange turtle]

But it’s not void blue

[frank galleon]

Did the orokin build each sentient or did they just build a murex and it spawned the others of its own design

[frail harness]

Like on an objective level

[restive river]

[strange turtle]

It’s clearly another Albrecht plot

[dark compass]

There are literally spawning pools in sentient ships

[lean garden]

also on an objective level, we know the sentients have a weakness to void, we just dont know how it works

[dark compass]

The black goop ones

[lean garden]

ergo

SENTIENT SENTIENCE IS VOID-BASED RAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[pale cedar]

Void based weakness

Not Void based powers like was suggested

[dark compass]

That's a setup for Wally to ||pilot the corpse of Adis||

[restive river]

It is though
It makes sense to have a medic/repair sect of sentients
But for some sentients to just lose their one singular weakness is wild and would require explanation
I’ll say it’s not impossible but very unlikely due to it being a built in weakness, it’s a core aspect to the sentients, without it they have no physical weaknesses

[frail harness]

Either way adis has an unexplained and random power, what's the difference if that goes against their void weakness or not?

[lean garden]

MECHANISMS FOR VOID-BASED SENTIENCE PROVIDE VOID-BASED WEAKNESS PROVIDE FOR VOID-BASED ABILITIES RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[pine orchid]

what in the apple of eden is this 😂

[frail harness]

"It makes sense to have a medic" isnt what i mean, I mean like from a functionality standpoint. How can it revive? How and why does it work for organics just as well as it works on sentients? Why does it work on a void-touched organic if the void halts them entirely?

[lean garden]

CONSIDER: WHY DOES THE AMALAGAM LACK THE WEAKNESS OF THE VOID

BECAUSE THEIR FLESH KNOWS ITSELF IT DOES NEED A MENTAL CONSTRUCT TO MAINTAIN ITSELF

[frail harness]

Please stop messaging in all-caps

[lean garden]

THE FLESH KNOWS ITS OWN

[pine orchid]

I'm not saying I'm discounting your theory, but... smthsmth ... the void is an apple 🍎

[strange plinth]

bau's self-proclaimed crackpot theory
everyone's allowed a few /j

[restive river]

I don’t think he needs to have void powers to be able to heal
Also again if his healing was using the void he’d be poisoning all of the sentients he heals
unless his powers aren’t void derived but he utilized some aspect of the void within him (if Bau’s theory is correct) to heal us

[dark compass]

I believe in you Bau

One day you'll laugh at everyone and be shot with a sniper rifle

[pale cedar]

Crackpot theory

We can just CE Wally dead

[stiff fable]

I still think it's whatever the "light" is in Warframe terms

[restive river]

The void doesn’t halt them, it’s just a poison to him
We hang out with him all the time and he’s fine

[frank galleon]

Yes but is that a design of their own or a kind of preprogrammed thing

[stiff fable]

Oro, souls, whatever

[pine orchid]

I personally think it's whatever the archon shards are made of

[frail harness]

I know they dont need the void to heal, I argued the void significance could be the Tenno's ability to just get Adis' power. You have to admit thats odd in any context other than it being void-based

[dark compass]

Ah, I see what you mean

[restive river]

If we shove enough archon shards into wally would he blow up
He’s embodying entropy
We have anti-entropic shards
C’mooon

[pale cedar]

Oro is the worst thing DE ever created

[stiff fable]

no that's eternalism

[pale cedar]

True

[frail harness]

If DE can ignore PvP we can ignore lore facts made in PvP lol

[dark compass]

No that's Torid incarnon

[pale cedar]

Second worst

[pine orchid]

if we just pool all our shards together.....

[restive river]

CE is a cooler concept

[pale cedar]

Yeah

Eternalism is only good when players do this basic thing

[restive river]

Wait sorry I’m misunderstanding
Because the tenno have access to the void and Adis healed them they now have his power?

[frail harness]

Conceptual embodiment is cool and the void is cool its just thst unfortunately it lends itself too well to being a narrative scapegoat

[stiff fable]

now that it's come up I wonder how many archon shards it would take to reactivate Hunhow's original form

[restive river]

Better than eternalism

[frail harness]

No i mean the operator has Adis' power because thats how we revive lol, its Adis' power that we're using from that point on

We got it when he went poof

[pale cedar]

CE can even bring me free food if I just feel an emotion

[frail harness]

Eternalism is cool because I LOVE TIME TRAVEL RAAGGHH

[unique aspen]

It's v heavily implied that the Operator's power to revive comes from Adis passing it on to us in the Old Peace - you can't actually revive like you usually do before his death

[restive river]

No yeah ik but what does that have to do with the void

[restive river]

I’m aware

[stiff fable]

yes but Warframes have revival systems built in

it's not the Warframe being revived it's the Operator

[frail harness]

The fact that we absorb the power? People cant normally just absorb the powers of sentients, its weird that it just meshes with us perfectly fine and we can just use it

[restive river]

I’m personally not a fan of that cause it fails to explain how other tenno can revive but whatever
Maybe it’s just different cause its the frames that are reviving and not the tenno themselves ig

[frail harness]

Well, I mean, every other Tenno (as far as the MMO aspect is concerned) also had their own Adis. Because theyre all from other timelines

[restive river]

It may just depend on what it is tbh
We need to know how he heals

[frail harness]

The multiplayer aspect is the Eternalism aspect of the void

[strange plinth]

ok its time for my crackpot theory ig
they have their "light"
we don't, as per the deal with wally, until adis gives us his

[stiff fable]

that's my guess

[unique aspen]

I'm still just staring at amps and Tektolyst artifacts and every eidolon shard needed to level up Focus Schools, tbh.

[pale cedar]

That’s why I made a better theory for it

it’s something we always had an Adis just healed us enough so we could use it

[frail harness]

Thats why every player can coexist using the same frames and the same clothes and even the same voice/appearance, theyre all other timeline versions of the operator from Eternalism™

[restive river]

Nanites?
Anti-Entropic Energy?
The void, somehow?

[restive river]

I like this idea, only issue being we still owe Wally lol

[restive river]

This sent so late
This is on how he may have healed lol

[stiff fable]

Wally only collected the deposit

[pale cedar]

I feel players took the light thing a little too literally

[stiff fable]

*is his argument I imagine

[restive river]

Yeah smh we just need to give him our flashlight

[stiff fable]

It's come up three times in wildly different circumstances

DE's going to do something with it

(Wally, Holdfasts r5, Adis)

[dark compass]

"kiddo, it's been five years, you still owe me 16 dollars"

[stray herald]

fu-

[stiff fable]

In this economy, the interest payments alone are going to bankrupt us

[frail harness]

"Kiddo, after interest you owe me nineteen million platinum"

[pale cedar]

“Wally you haven’t payed a single bit of rent”

[strange turtle]

Sentient energy is clearly “anti-void”, which is why only the labs (archon shards/anti-entropy research) have it

We will beat Wally by fusing the biggest Sentients with the Vessels (controlled by the Protos) and combining Void and Anti-Void into the weird third thing from when the Cavia got alchemised

[stray herald]

"kiddo, your car's extended warranty has expired"

[strange turtle]

It also gets called out for it in KIM

[frail harness]

Ngl I wanna visit Corposium more than I wanna see more of the old war LOL

[dark compass]

Cyberpunk update

[frail harness]

You kinda forget cities exist in warframe because you only ever to go military areas, I wanna visit a residential area

[stiff fable]

imagine if it turns out there's a Warframe that requires archon shards to build

[unique aspen]

Honestly, that'd be cool.

[stiff fable]

And yes we all want it, make it happen DE

[strange plinth]

adis is, admittedly, the outlier
but you don't usually use a different meaning for the same symbol when it seems so plot relevant

[frail harness]

Warframe's universe ends up feeling like a barren warzone to me because I forget theres cities and civilians and people

[dark compass]

Waiting 5 years for prime instead

[stiff fable]

There's concept art of a bar on the Zariman

[frail harness]

Closest thing to a city we ever visit is Fortuna

[stiff fable]

I want an actual bar with other players mixing drinks

[frail harness]

Which is definetly a city but also we visit like 5% of it and it's a slave camp

[dark compass]

Also known as "Cavalero's living quarters"

[stiff fable]

Eh, technically Cetus

[frail harness]

Imagine a Corpus city Hub or something where you can walk around among other players and civilian NPCs

[strange plinth]

a use for the blue shard stockpile everyone has? never,,

[stiff fable]

We're just stuck in the touristy section where they sell junk to unsuspecting foreigners

[pale cedar]

Corposium will still have Corpus so won’t not be a military area

[frail harness]

I forgot about cetus because theres like 5 houses and almost every citizen is a merchant lol

[stiff fable]

ikr lol

[dark compass]

You have a digital copy of a guy who blew up the tower of the board of directors in your head

[stiff fable]

actually

[frail harness]

A military area is somewhere only military are, at least as far as im concerned

[stiff fable]

Speaking of Cetus

[frail harness]

A city doesnt become a military area because theres soldiers present, its still a civilian city

[stiff fable]

I wonder if this is the year they make the Unum Tower a node

[dark compass]

Cetus Undermind

[pale cedar]

Probably not

[stiff fable]

The Cetus equivalent of the Sanctum Anatomica

[frail harness]

Cetus overmind

[dark compass]

Ez

[stiff fable]

Whale and astronomy-themed Warframe, non-infested meat filled tiles

[frail harness]

They should add Corposium and when they add Temple Prime, they should host a concert in Corpsium city centre

[stiff fable]

Fighting to keep the Murmur from reaching some dark secret deep inside

[strange plinth]

whaleframe..
hmm

[stiff fable]

lol Hammond

But yeah the Cetus was a Greek monster that Heracles hunted

[strange turtle]

New use for mushrooms once you’ve completed their entry

Wait a minute. Gathering ingredients for drinks in cavemines with lots of mushrooms, a fixation on them even, an uncaring corporation also operating there as a rival force. And the bar’d need to be somewhere away from people to keep them safe, like a space station…

[stiff fable]

New dojo room genius!

[strange plinth]

correct name

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/deep-rock-galactic-drg-party-rock-and-stone-dancing-gif-17107500

[stiff fable]

hold up I have it give me a second

There

[strange plinth]

infested glyphid when

[hollow siren]

Rockpox

[strange plinth]

true,,

[hollow siren]

Lithophage Phorid

[strange plinth]

the rockpox is just where plague star was when it was absent

[hollow siren]

Operation: Plaguefall

[strange turtle]

A fortuna version of plaguestar

[restive river]

Hammond???

[strange turtle]

The Jurassic Park guy

[restive river]

OH LMAO

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/jurassic-park-jurassic-gif-7496044

[frail harness]

I wanna see a snake frame

Not like lavos with pet snakes i mean a Jormungandr mf

Big snake

[hollow siren]

Exalted Wyrmling

[frail harness]

4 should just be a snake mode where you get giant and slither around, poisoning enemies in front of you and damaging them

[hollow siren]

so an Exalted Wyrmling

[strange turtle]

The lithocyte meteors crash into the not-deep mines and we get hired by the company under Nef that manages them to deal with it (we accept because it’s dangerous for the Solaris)

[pale cedar]

Which Warframe batch do you think Ballas would be given?

[stiff fable]

.....isn't that just Hydroid??

[strange turtle]

Gara

[frail harness]

..no?

I haven't played much hydroid but I am fairly certain he does not turn into a giant snake

[hollow siren]

closest would be him turning into a wave

[stiff fable]

2 slugs of Pb-82 to the head

[strange turtle]

So he can always have a mirror to look at himself

[stiff fable]

He turns into a wave and smashes enemies into a clump, with a quick rise and falling motion

[frail harness]

To punish him? Probably Yareli. As far as i recall he straight up disliked prime yareli lol

[hollow siren]

Rev Prime

[pale cedar]

He hated the person infected not necessarily the frame

He didn’t like how the Yuvan disrespected him

[pine orchid]

Ballas, in my personal opinion, should be infected with Jade

[frail harness]

Yeah thats why I said prime

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-gif-1878760417600646737

[frail harness]

Imagine being made a proto of the frame you personally disliked the original of

[strange turtle]

Primes aren’t the original
Well sometimes they are, but its not like a guaranteed thing

[hollow siren]

He disliked the person, so he made her into Yareli. No confirmation on what he thought of the Warframe herself

[frail harness]

I know, that doesnt matter

[dark compass]

Ballas mpreg???

[stiff fable]

someone's written it

[frail harness]

Im saying out of the warframes he disliked the person he originally made into Yareli so being a yareli proto would probably make him the most salty

How he feels about the actual frame's abilities doesnt matter and isnt what im talkin about

[dark compass]

Salty like seawater???

[frail harness]

Salty like a rainbow six beige player

[strange turtle]

Normally I’d agree but I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t.

Warframe’s been surprisingly barren of many fics in general

[frail harness]

(Its beige because it is boring and dull)

[strange turtle]

Like it’s still had a bunch and obviously with recent updates and higher popularity its gone up but there’s surprisingly few for how popular it is and has been

[strange turtle]

Yeah those numbers are bad

[frail harness]

Not nonexistent tho

[stiff fable]

people write fanfiction when they're disappointed with the story

[pine orchid]

those are rookie numbers, are any of them even omegaverse???

[stiff fable]

though, the one really good WF fic I read is only on FFN

[harsh sparrow]

DE

LET ME BEAT THE SHIT OUTTA BALLAS AND MY SOUL IS YOURS

[strange turtle]

Compared to others of it’s size and even just in general, yeah, it is

[frail harness]

Quite frankly I am scared to check

[hollow siren]

Nitokh × Roathe better be

[frail harness]

I dont want no stories about omega and alpha warframes

[stiff fable]

also yeah these are mildly popular one-off movie numbers, not increasingly popular live-service game numbers

[frail harness]

Oh damn roathe already has 13 on ao3 lol

[frail harness]

Mostly drifterXroathe but theres some lyonXroathe too

[strange turtle]

Only like 60 and a bunch are recent thats, surprising

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/jimmy-butler-confused-jimmy-butler-confused-eye-squint-gif-12144635464811342257

[frail harness]

Oh hey, theres a single roathe nitohk one

Idk man i didnt write them im just the messenger

[hollow siren]

https://tenor.com/view/squid-game-front-man-squid-game-2-happy-celebration-gif-12369111202088932661

[frail harness]

Lemme skim the nitohk one im so curious

Seems more like a retelling of the story he told us

[hollow siren]

Guard dog boyfriend Roathe

[frail harness]

Its very short and doesnt contain much actual romance or anythin

[pine orchid]

do you think DE watches the AO3

[strange turtle]

Yes

They’ve mentioned AO3 and tumblr on stream

[frail harness]

I found one tagged with uriel warframe and also my hero academia/deku 😭

[pine orchid]

based 😂

[frail harness]

OH its an au where deku is uriel

For some reason

[past halo]

AO3 is a wild place to be at

[frail harness]

He is uriel warframe but the world is MHA

[past halo]

Who would win: a supervillain who can do whatever they want 🆚 a walking war crime with guns and swords

[pale cedar]

Uriel is fine till there’s someone who has a fire quirk

[strange turtle]

Still has his hands

[pale cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/skips-saltitão-apenas-um-show-regular-show-rigby-gif-23568561

[frail harness]

If i hear one more "dont come to school tomorrow" joke about uriel in the old peace i might lose it

Like yes youtube comment section you're so original nobody's ever made that joke before

[radiant crown]

Is grandmother entrati wife or entrati daughter?

[radiant crown]

Ty

[radiant crown]

Entrati wife name is gerivaine, didnt know that

[tall echo]

??

[radiant crown]

What

[tall echo]

What are you talking about

[strange turtle]

Albrecht’s wife

Roathe’s kim reveals her name

Ig they looked it up

[hollow siren]

yeah this chart is from before OP, since we also know Father's original name and surname now

[pale cedar]

It’s a little outdated but still gets point across

[hollow siren]

yep, it has all the mentioned members still

[vestal estuary]

I was wondering something. When I played over two years ago I don't think we knew that the first set of warframes were just humans transformed by the helminth. When is this information told? Or did I just miss it and it was always known. I thought that it was always through the tenno that they used warframes, but then later Ballas tried to make sentient ones like with Umbra, and stopped it right after since it was deemed a failure no?

[hollow siren]

the quest "The Sacrifice" is when the nature of Warframes is revealed

all originals were sapient to various degrees, the braindead fabricated foundry copies became a thing after Transference for Warframes was discovered

[jaunty oasis]

The Sacrifice is when it’s spelled out completely, though I suppose it’s hinted at beforehand with old lore like that one rhino entry in Simaris fragments

[hollow siren]

Umbra was actually one of the last Warframes made in the Orokin era

[vestal estuary]

Did the OG ones just get killed and locked up over time? Since the foundry copies are just bps of the body I assume.

[hollow siren]

Lobotomized/drugged/killed off yeah

[jaunty oasis]

The last we know of not counting protoframes

[pale cedar]

Yes, Sacrifice Ballas says he committed them to grave

[hollow siren]

very few Originals are known to still be alive, and we've met only like 2 or 3

Rhino Prime's Codex entry tells of how Transference for Warframes was first discovered

[jaunty oasis]

It’s possible we fight some originals in perita rebellion

[pale cedar]

Unlikely

[hollow siren]

Considering our Excalibur Prime does not seem to be one, it's unlikely the others are

[pale cedar]

Most originals were killed

[vestal estuary]

I remember that kullervo is locked up? Or was locked up? He dead?

[jaunty oasis]

Galastra indicates in some of her dialogue that some are operated and some insane

[pale cedar]

Only originals we know that aren’t dead now is Stalker and Kullervo

[hollow siren]

it's always a bit confusing to talk about this since "originals" does not refer to the first version of said frames, just the frames that were injected humans as opposed to fabricated copies

[pale cedar]

Even Umbra was blown up and replicated

[hollow siren]

He got thrown into the Void and by chance ended up in Duviri

[vestal estuary]

luck stat maxed out I see

or man in the wall helped

[pale cedar]

Nah

[hollow siren]

That is true, yeah

Although she says that the insane ones are not the commandeered primes

[pale cedar]

Kullervo just did CE which doesn’t require Wally

[hollow siren]

so maybe the Anarchs just have like an angry Rhino in their basement like they had the Dactolyst

[frail harness]

I wonder when we'll finally get a KIM chat with albrecht himself

[vestal estuary]

I do remember that Harrow was weird. Was that because a tenno was locked int transference for a long time or because he transfered in a sentient frame?

[hollow siren]

Rell permanently Transferred to his Harrow

as for Harrow himself, we have quite literally zero lore on him

[pale cedar]

Rell was afraid of aging

[hollow siren]

only Harrow lore is Rell's lore

[vestal estuary]

so did Rell go crazy because of being locked up, or just being in a frame for that long corrodes the mind?

[pale cedar]

Wally broke him down

[hollow siren]

bit of both, plus Wally got to him too

[frail harness]

Rell locked himself inside his Harrow?

[pale cedar]

Yes

[hollow siren]

yes, so he could live on

[pale cedar]

Rell thought aging would undo his purpose

[frail harness]

Do we know how?

[vestal estuary]

Wait do the tenno actually age? I thought them being locked in Lua when we found out made it clear they live for a very long time

[pale cedar]

Yes

Tenno are human thus still age

[frail harness]

The tenno didnt age because they spent tons of time in stasis

They'll resume aging when theyre awake

[frail harness]

Because we did learn about that new kind of radiation in the Ecchymotic Historical Extract

[hollow siren]

Lifespans in general seem to be weird in Warframe, so it's certainly possible the Tenno live longer than normal humans

But they're not immortal

[pale cedar]

Darvo is almost 105 himself and he’s no Tenno

[vestal estuary]

wait so how were the orokin so damn scared? I know that it was unknown where the tenno were, but there were only 11 right?

eventually tenno would just die

[restive river]

Nothing really suggests they have a different lifespan, only tenno that didnt have a cryopod was Rell

[frail harness]

What?

The orokin were scared because the tenno have godlike power lol

[azure jasper]

Did we ever get a solid answer from DE about whether the Operators age or not? I know they were put in stasis, but they've been out of stasis for at least 11 years now and still look the same.

[hollow siren]

The Tenno were all the children aboard the Zariman Ten-Zero

[frail harness]

What good is outlasting the tenno if they can topple your empire in a day

[pale cedar]

Do humans age?

[vestal estuary]

I mean it makes sense that if they need statis then they age right

[hollow siren]

"certainly possible"

I wouldn't be surprised if our special nature extended our lifespan a bit

[restive river]

Ballas was scared cause we had basic empathy due to trauma and could tame the frames, one of if not the Orokin’s greatest weapons

[frail harness]

Is it possible rell figured out how to seal himself in his frame via that radiation from perita?

[pale cedar]

We don’t need an answer from DE because it is common sense

[hollow siren]

well Palladino helped him do it, so maybe she was handling some Ascaris-esque tech

[pale cedar]

Humans age

[vestal estuary]

fair point, that's what they actually started doing right? After the old war and beating the sentients they turned on the orokin?

[restive river]

We got void saturated DNA, so it could do a thing?
Maybe if we felt it hard enough we could extend our life

[wide halo]

11 tenno or orokin?

[azure jasper]

We don't know the extent to which Operators are still human after the events of the Zariman Incident though.

[minor marlin]

the combination of cryosleep plus voidpowers definitely helped with us looking young, but id hazard a guess the operator is around 15-16 now if we estimate how long the events from second dream up until old peace lasted for them

[restive river]

No, we do
They’re still human

[frail harness]

Afaik there wouldve been like at least ten thousand children on the zariman (estimate), and even if only 2% of the children survived and got void powers thats still a fair few tenno

[pale cedar]

We were put in Ice because aging exists and Rell literally aged to death

[vestal estuary]

tenno, the only tenno that exist are the ones from zariman ten-zero right? Most died and a few kids lived and got pulled out of the void?

And in the other timeline they didn't get pulled out and we got duviri?

[frail harness]

The zariman was a MASSIVE generation ship

[hollow siren]

The Zariman had an uncountable number of colonists on it

[wide halo]

im still debating that one

[restive river]

7. THE ZARIMAN

** SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT **

The Tenno has discovered the truth of their identity. They are a human child, one of many kept within cryopods on Lua in the Reservoir.

These children were passengers on the Zariman Ten-Zero, the colony ship bound for Tau and lost to the Void. When recovered, they were found to have developed parahuman abilities.

Despite Margulis' protests, they were placed into a state of lucid dreaming and used as warframe pilots.

Continuing to monitor.

[pale cedar]

Warframe aging is longer lasting than irl aging but Orokin can’t cure aging

[vestal estuary]

oh shit, I had no idea. I thought that 1 classroom you got in the flashback was all the kids

[wide halo]

there were like 26 million kids on the zariman, correct?

[frail harness]

Nah lol the zariman likely had at least half a million people on it

[pale cedar]

No

[wide halo]

Zariman is massive

[frail harness]

Idk where 26 million is from i cant confirm or deny that ive never heard it

[restive river]

"Drifter. New Techrot Coda just hatched. Tracking your Void-saturated DNA signature. Has an expiry date of never. You might be stuck with this one for a while."

[vestal estuary]

makes sense, if void could make them immortal they would just find a way to get the power. Did they ever want to take over the bodies of tenno's with void powers? Or were they scared of a weird interaction with kuva?

[wide halo]

do we have an estimated population on the zariman? pre jump?

[restive river]

No, we have no exact numbers for the Tenno

[frail harness]

I heard it was confirmed somewhere in a lore piece that about 1 million people were considered for the zariman project, but it was a generation ship so it was built for the passengers to multiply

[pale cedar]

Orokin have tried continuity on Tenno twice

[wide halo]

dunno, heard there were 26 mil, was skeptical

[pale cedar]

We are never given numbers so that’s pure headcanon

[azure jasper]

This we do have info about. Tuvul tried to do Continuity on Voruna's Operator.

[wide halo]

fair enough

[restive river]

We have three instances where that idea is teased
The War Within
Voruna
And it’s mentioned in the Old Peace

[strange turtle]

Way more than 11, and only unknown to other people after the old war

[pale cedar]

No Orokin have ever succeeded at it so far but it is possible

[restive river]

The tenno were a myth during the old war

[wide halo]

the idea that frames are/were mass produced means there were way more than 11 imo

[vestal estuary]

do we know how many kids went into stasis on Lua? SO how many are left? Since we don't really interect with any except crazy Rell

[pale cedar]

There’s like 300-400 pods shown in the Old War cinematic

[restive river]

We typically don’t get numbers for lore stuff

[vestal estuary]

weren't they produced simply because sentient was a no go, correlation but not causation

[restive river]

We have to guess the year and that’s with solid info

[frail harness]

Well, this is the reservoir where the tenno were kept, right? Each 'flower' here is 6 tenno pods, plus theres the warframe stasis pods in every defence mission, and the pods not visible in this screenshot

[pale cedar]

There’s definitely not 1 mil+ Tenno

[restive river]

The Necramechs and Warframes were made to combat the sentients

[strange turtle]

Not to the orokin

[vestal estuary]

and all the way at the beginning of the game we got told that tenno were starting to wake up again right, from all the way back then

[strange turtle]

Which is who we’re talking about

[frail harness]

I count at least 342 tenno in this one screenshot alone

[restive river]

Oh nvm then

[azure jasper]

Also, Tenno were not the first attempt to pilot warframes. They were just the most successful.

[frail harness]

maybe 348

[pale cedar]

And that is about as far as we will ever get in terms of an actual number

[restive river]

So there’s at least 342 different warframes
Totally what that means /j

[wide halo]

from what i recall, and please correct me if i'm wrong

the frames were an experiment by ballas - pre sentient uprising

the sentients, having turned on the orokin and were turning all their tech against them forced the orokin into a corner

ballas then showed off his 'art pieces' the warframes

which turned into propaganda figures

[frail harness]

So technically it isnt factually incorrect to say there are 342 tenno since technically thats the only amount theres proof of, therefore I am correct

🧠

[restive river]

I don’t believe there were other pilot attempts, the first gen frames just had sapience

[pale cedar]

1 mil Tenno is what’s factually incorrect

[frail harness]

That was just a guess

[restive river]

Warframes came after the sentients

[frail harness]

But the zariman is MASSIVE when you look at it in the zariman skybox

[restive river]

It’s big
Not every player big

[frail harness]

Wait no the only time I mentioned 1 million was when I said I had heard that 1 million people were considered by the orokin, that wasnt my estimate of the tenno

[azure jasper]

Weren't the Ascaris made for that purpose? Or was that just more of a restraining bolt rather than a remote control?

[vestal estuary]

didn't sentient come from tau and that screwed the orokin over? Or were sentients those terraformers that the orokin used?

[wide halo]

right, because ballas had no reason to touch infestation until the orokin were forced into a corner
that's when he cultivated the helminth

[pale cedar]

Game developers always suck at scaling stuff

[frail harness]

I remember reading a lore excerpt that said like "youve been selected among 1 million candidates for the zariman" or something

[pale cedar]

Billions of the empire

[hollow siren]

Sentients were sent to Tau to terraform it

[strange turtle]

Was a remote control too

[restive river]

We don’t know when the ascaris were made but they seem to just control the frame, but we know the first gen frames didn’t have that since they had a whole insurrection and went feral

[pale cedar]

There was billions in the empire that’s all that means

Doesn’t say billions went on the ship

[frail harness]

Can someone find that lore

I wanna reread it

[frail harness]

And i didn't say it said there were billions on the ship lol

[frail harness]

"Billions of qualified applicants", thats not their population thats the candidates, like I said

I never claimed that number was how many people got in

[azure jasper]

We don't know the exact date, but we do know they were made before the events of The Old Peace, since they were utilized then.

[pale cedar]

Billions of qualified applicants implies Billions exist in the Empire

[vestal estuary]

is there a youtube channel that does the lore stuff well, detailed I mean. I don't care about length. I just want to see the lore step by step

[strange turtle]

IIRC there’s thing for the actual Zariman population but it’s not like, a fixed number, we just see enough to know how many figures the population number had

[vestal estuary]

Wait the goal was to reach the Tau system? i thought they just wanted to do void experiments?

[pale cedar]

https://youtu.be/5ekJpbdRz4Y

[strange turtle]

Have you done KIM?

[thick yacht]

When Roathe took command of his Dax they were basically a bunch of stray mongrels: starving and undisciplined. Then he turned them into a pack of hounds, sated and honed for the hunt

[vestal estuary]

KIM?

[restive river]

This is all we have I think on it’s creation

[pale cedar]

Nah

[restive river]

Ballas could have made it specifically for the old oeace

[strange turtle]

The texting stuff

[pale cedar]

The Void was just how they fast travelled

[radiant crown]

Roathe told me entrati wife name

[thick yacht]

I assume that’s what he wanted to do for the Orokin Empire

He wanted to turn the Empire to a truly fearsome thing to run up against

Not whatever it was degrading into

[vestal estuary]

haven't done it

[frail harness]

ascaris gets introduced with insane ability to drill into and control warframe
never used again

ascaris prime gets introduced and has full mindcontrol of a warframe, even a prime
never gonna get used again

Family tradition!

[hollow siren]

Yes? The Void jump to Tau failed, and the Zariman got stranded in the Void

[vestal estuary]

So they stumbled upon creating the tenno? Tenno was not the goal? Then they must have had other plans to control warframes no?

[wide halo]

Correct me if i'm wrong

sentients were sent to Tau post-zariman screw up as terraformers

they built a solar rail, yadda yadda

then the sentients realized that the orokin would destroy Tau like they did Sol, cut off the colonists in tau from sol (probably murderlized them)

started the old war

[hollow siren]

Yes, they thought they could control the Warframes because of how limited their Infestation was

[pale cedar]

Tenno powers wasn’t the intention

[vestal estuary]

sentients turned on the Orokin because they were seperated from their influence for a long ass time right?

[strange turtle]

Ah, well, it comes up in a bunch of the conversations

Basically, after the Sentients were sent to build the Rail and it’s pylons between the Origin and Tau systems, the Executor Tuvul got impatient and started a series of projects to try and get there even sooner. The “Zarimans” are the actual attempts, previous ones being unmanned craft until Zariman 10-0, a colony ship with terraforming stuff and a bunch of people

[hollow siren]

They gained sentience and realized the Orokin would just destroy Tau like they did Sol

[restive river]

Nah they just wanted Tau and independence

[vestal estuary]

But they already were losing the war against sentients here right? Weren't they pressured to find a way to win? Or did they send the zariman there before the old war started?

[strange turtle]

Zariman was pre-old war yeah

[restive river]

Would the Zariman have terraforming equipment? The world seeders were sent out first and that seems to have that tech

[vestal estuary]

ah that makes sense

[hollow siren]

World Seeders are also Zariman-class vessels

the one we go into in OP is like Zariman Five Seven

[restive river]

I know, I’m saying those went before

The seeders didnt have a crew either, just a cephalon per egg

[strange turtle]

Yeah and those didn’t work

[vestal estuary]

the only adults from zariman ten zero that still live are the 5 we know right?

[hollow siren]

Those are Void manifestations of the dead crew

[wide halo]

still half dead half alive ghosts?

yeah

[hollow siren]

all the adults died, then copies of them were born from the Void via Conceptual Embodiment

[restive river]

Yeah but they still would have been used for terraforming, no?

[vestal estuary]

Oh I thought these were the only ones that didn't get fully corrupted by the void and kinda merged. They can only live there right?

[hollow siren]

they likely cannot leave the Void, no

[wide halo]

gotta love roathe's transcripts for adding context to the orokin

[restive river]

Sentients leave, takes forever
Orokin sends Zariman World Seeders, each with a cephalon
Final Zariman trip, the ship
Zariman incident

It would make sense to send the tools to terraform first and then the crew

[wide halo]

i doubt they would even if they could

they took it as their duty to keep the void from flooding sol through the zariman

[hollow siren]

yeah

[pale cedar]

Zariman 5-9 was made after 10-0

[lean garden]

guh?

[wide halo]

right because Tuvul had no patience

[restive river]

KIM spoilers
||we have an answer to this, they can leave but not for very long||

[pale cedar]

10-0 had already happened

[wide halo]

||argon effect?||

[restive river]

Drifter talks about how there were other zarimans, the pods with the cephalons that went first iirc

[hollow siren]

Argon being CE would be a wild lore addition

[vestal estuary]

argon is because of an element right? Their bodies aren't like argon

[restive river]

||it didnt specifically say that but I can see that lol||

[hollow siren]

The only one who truly knows how Argon works is Otak, but it's unlikely he remembers at this point

[pale cedar]

So that means 5-9 succeeded where 10-0 failed

[vestal estuary]

they don't know how argon works? We use it all the time in our foundry

[restive river]

Yeah the eggs were terraforming pods

Drifter: Or Cephalon-piloted terraforming pods. They experimented a LOT.

[restive river]

Yeah, the eggs clearly made it to Tau but lacked the crew to activate them as the 10-0 never made it

[vestal estuary]

would cool if Tau system got created in a new update and we see 5-9 chilling there

[wide halo]

major kim spoilers:

||using argon, kaya was able to deduce that items borne of the void cannot leave the void for long, as they disappear from the world of dust (our world) and return to the void, meaning that, as the holdfasts are created by the void (a la argon) it would make sense that they could leave, if only for a short time||

[strange turtle]

Except why would they need to be used?

[restive river]

We see one of them in the old peace

[restive river]

Wdym

[strange turtle]

They’re unmanned

[hollow siren]

||"I discovered a forgotten work by Archimedean Otak on crystallography deep in the archives. He was the first to anticipate the unique properties of Argon. We owe him so much. At least... what remains of him... is happy."||

[restive river]

That
That’s where the zariman crew would have come in-

But they never got there

[strange turtle]

They shouldn’t have had to

[hollow siren]

Zariman Five Nine is the World-seeder we go to during the quest

[restive river]

???

[pale cedar]

Could send it unmanned then put people on later to do Terraforming

[restive river]

Perita doesn’t have a breathable oxygen
It makes sense to send the tools first and then the crew get there, turn em on and terraforming begins

[vestal estuary]

wait Otak is smart? It's not just funny little guy?

[wide halo]

that's a broken version of his cephalon

[restive river]

They also had cephalons on them, but I guess they couldn’t activate the process for whatever reason

[pale cedar]

You thought Cephalons were stupid?

[strange turtle]

5-9
10-0
They are clearly not part of the same thing

One is an unmanned terraformer

It can terraform just fine on its own, it can function just fine on it’s own. Why on earth would it need an entire separate expedition, not even part of the same attempt, to activate it unless something went wrong?

[vestal estuary]

HE WAS A CEPHALON?

Of what type?

[restive river]

Wait no the unmanned drones and terraforming are two different things!

[hollow siren]

Otak was an Archimedean who was turned into a Cephalon for unknown reasons. When Deimos became Infested, Otak was damaged and they had to emergency move him to the Necraloid to save his life. Sadly that meant the transfer was a bit scuffed and he became a bit lobotomized

[pale cedar]

Otak was a human turned into a Cephalon placed into the Loid shell

Archemedian Otak

[restive river]

The unmanned drones aren’t the terraformers, that’s the eggs, the cephalon piloted terraforming pods

Both were part of the zariman project ofc

[vestal estuary]

damn, so he was actually a researcher. I just thought he knew some things, not like this

[hollow siren]

The Necraloid is a Cephalon-esque copy of Loid seemingly created from a clone of Loid's skull

[restive river]

Drifter specifically says unmanned drones OR cephalon piloted terraforming pods

The eggs likely weren’t built there and they’re part of the zariman project and they certainly are not drones

The crew wouldn’t need terraforming tech if all the tech was already there, waiting for them

[hollow siren]

Considering we see interior identical to that of the Orbiter in the egg it makes me wonder if the Orbiter and Liset are Zariman-class ships too

[strange turtle]

Ah

Well, that doesn’t actually change anything, there’s no reason the cephalon wouldn’t have been able to do it, and no reason for it not to get a headstart

[restive river]

Except it didn’t, clearly

[marble pewter]

Reading about Otak made me sad

[restive river]

I don’t think it’s an issue of it not working unless it’s stated that all the eggs are broken

Which they don’t seem to be

[vestal estuary]

I have always been surprised by one thing. How did the grineer or corpus never get their hands on mods. We're as strong as we are because of mods, lore wise too, but the tech clearly didn't disappear.

[restive river]

For whatever reason the cephalons couldn’t or weren’t allowed to activate the pods, just make sure they got to where they needed to go

Maybe the Orokin just wanted non-glass humans to do it

[ocean geyser]

Or they broke down in Tau for unknown reasons

[restive river]

Or that yeah

[strange turtle]

Sentients:

[marble pewter]

Oh right, with the chat with Marie. One of the Drifter responses was like “Necraloid is a unique case but Otak has a soul..” So how was Necraloid made?

[restive river]

The terraforming pods made it and the cephalons just never did anything for whatever reason
And with the plan being the 10-0 would get there so the crew could terraform

[restive river]

Yeah no that bit is more of a stretch, why the cephalons didn’t do anything is a hole but it’s what we see in game so

[hollow siren]

That's pretty much what Eximus tech is

[restive river]

Even if the 10-0 wasn’t meant to activate them the cephalons still did nothing for whatever reason

[vestal estuary]

Oh I thought that was just them figuring some thing out themselves, not actually using the same mod system we use

we just put the expansion in the ship and viola

[pale cedar]

Mods are literally mentioned to also be used by enemy factions even before we had teacher quest

[hollow siren]

Well it's them incorporating scavenged tech. Not confirmed to be Mods specifically, but it seems to at least be a similar function

[vestal estuary]

hmmm, but they never actually got their hands on a mod segment like we did then.

[pale cedar]

Nothing says they didn’t

We took a mod segment

[restive river]

They just didn’t get the one we found

[vestal estuary]

we literally get to hear in the first or second question that we can't let the mod segment fall into grineer hands.

[restive river]

Imagine a line of corpus stepping into an arsenal just to mod their gear, one at a time

[vestal estuary]

I assume they don't have anything like a mod segment, just broken pieces

[pale cedar]

A mod segment existing implies others exist

[ocean geyser]

They got the m segment

:3

[pale cedar]

After we got it they would’ve just found another

[vestal estuary]

I know, but Lotus was very adament that it would be horrendous if they got their hands on a mod segment right? It wasn't like "they shouldn't get any more of them" it was clearly "They shouldn't get their hands on one, period"

[ocean geyser]

I wonder if the infested have mods
Or if they’re just genetically cracked outta their minds

[vestal estuary]

I think just cracked

they adapt faster than anything else right?

[ocean geyser]

Yeah

[hollow siren]

Might have assimilated just various stuff

[strange turtle]

I think they might just not have full mod segments but still have like, salvaged stuff from the Orokin

[ocean geyser]

Yea

[vestal estuary]

or they punched the mods out of grineer like mario gets his coins and just ate them

[hollow siren]

unupgraded and/or Flawed mods

[ocean geyser]

Would make sense since Steel Meridian has a dumpster full of those

[pale cedar]

Consider the teacher quest is set a bit after Vors prize

That means they had a very long time to find another

[vestal estuary]

That's what I mean, they don't actually have a single completely working mod segment

[ocean geyser]

Imagine if they got rivens 💀

[pale cedar]

Sorry for their loss

[ocean geyser]

That reminds me of a stupid ass april fools event concept

Warframe but rivens only
All slots rivens
All enemies are “modded” to have rivens too

[vestal estuary]

btw, are new weapons we get in the game new creations or old orokin tech?

[ocean geyser]

Like
Vinquibus?

[pale cedar]

Both

Some are new

Some Orokin era

[vestal estuary]

who is smart enough right now to create new strong weapons?

[pale cedar]

Grineer and Corpus weapon engineers

[vestal estuary]

ah that's true, stupid question.

[pale cedar]

Orokin can also make new weapons

[vestal estuary]

I thought after the creator of Corpus died they didn't really have anybody that smart again

[pale cedar]

As not all are dead

[dark compass]

It's all a joint effort

If anything, Parvos is stealing those designs for his sisters

[vestal estuary]

we do have one crazy scientist alive right? That mutalist alad v guy that goes nuts with infested stuff?

[pale cedar]

Hunhow was able to create a weapon by just losing a few fragments

[hollow siren]

He was cured in an Operation years and years ago

[dark compass]

Oh yeah, Komorex and Cyanex are a very new invention comparatively

[hollow siren]

last we saw of him was in The New War

[dark compass]

Amalgam weapons

[hollow siren]

his current status is unknown

[dark compass]

They said he's alive in an interview

[vestal estuary]

is he part of a faction or nah?

[pale cedar]

Corpus

[dark compass]

He is still with Corpus

[hollow siren]

He's Corpus, but he's kinda on thin ice with the Board

[pale cedar]

Though he’s still happy to swap sides

[vestal estuary]

ah okay, because he was their frontrunner on infested tech right? Still is then

[hollow siren]

after his numerous messups over the years

[hollow siren]

He abandoned that years and years ago

the Mutalist saga was like long ago

[vestal estuary]

oh, but I thought that short mission about him you can do was all recent?

[pale cedar]

He lost his seat on the board after being the reason the General attacked Mars and took the planet

[hollow siren]

That mission is older than The Second Dream IIRC.

yeah there's tons of stuff that was tied to old Operations, it's a big reason why the basic starchart rn feels kinda disconnected

[vestal estuary]

I don't get it, I thought not that much time has passed from start of the game till now? Since the operator is still young

[pale cedar]

Even in TSD he still had scars from his Mutalist time

[vestal estuary]

ah okay

[hollow siren]

Real world time

[vestal estuary]

oh yeah meant our time, not lore time

[hollow siren]

Basically the entirety of the basic star chart and all the operations and such tied to it were before The Second Dream

They were how the game did story before they moved to cinematic quests

[vestal estuary]

understood, it's just my most knowledgeable part since I played a lot back then

alad v used to be an important mystery

[hollow siren]

Him and Vay Hek are proper remnants of Oldframe

[vestal estuary]

ballas is properly dead right. When we killed him that was it. I forgot how he survived for so long without the orokin

[vestal estuary]

see that makes sense because it was from 2015 that I got most of the lore

[pale cedar]

Human bodies in Warframe can live longer than irl bodies

[hollow siren]

He is dead since TNW, yes

[vestal estuary]

was he one of the Seven? Or we still don't know who are all members there

[strange turtle]

Ik you’ve already been answered but also this only applies to post TSD content, since before that the Operator was still in cryo, it could very well have been a good few years between Awakening and then

[hollow siren]

he was, yes

[strange turtle]

Yes, and, it was revealed in a teaser stream for The Old Peace

[hollow siren]

we got all the names of the Seven now with Old Peace, as well as statues showing how they look

[vestal estuary]

oh sick, I should do the Old Peace then

Tuvul we knew for a while no? Since Lavos wanted to kill him

[restive river]

In order: Avantus, Nitohk, Tuvul, Tormis, Scarne, Karishh, Ballas

[hollow siren]

Tuvul has been known for a while yes

[restive river]

That was Voruna

And she succeeded in killing him

[hollow siren]

the only new names are Scarne, Tormis and Nitokh

[vestal estuary]

lavos was also unhappy with Tuvul since he liked the prisoner that turned into his snake

[restive river]

No? Tuvul has nothing to do with Lavos

I’m unsure where you’re getting that

[dark compass]

Yeah that's

I'm not sure where that is from

[restive river]

I have his leverian transcript up and no Tuvul

[frail harness]

I checked the wiki and the only name really mentioned as his snake is Javi

[hollow siren]

Javi was the alchemist

he was an Archimedean

[vestal estuary]

you're right, nothing with lavos

[dark compass]

One snake is Javi the archimedian alchemist, the other is Lavos' "old self"

[vestal estuary]

I think I read about Kullervo's lore and he wanted to kill an executor

not specified which one

[hollow siren]

Lavos was given Transmutation to ensure Javi did not survive his execution, but Javi and Lavos formed a bond and things went awry

[hollow siren]

Ballas

[vestal estuary]

everybody be wanting ballas dead