lore-discussion

[humble sierra]

Because the Operator was saved

[thick yacht]

Bro has so much sass

[hollow trench]

Idk saved is a very light way to say it

We were just put under different management

Our bosses would turn people into Warframes for farting in the wrong direction

So pick your poison ig

[humble sierra]

The kids were trained to not have strong emotions, and for the most part were calm, even when they had to kill their parents and stuff

They at least had each other to keep them in check, the Drifter ended up completely isolated

[brittle siren]

also Drifter has no void power until they shake hand with our OP?

[humble sierra]

Yeah seems like

[strange plinth]

yea, they say this during TNW

[humble sierra]

They get Transference in Duviri from Lotus' severed hand

[hollow trench]

I would have to say the drifter seems more realistic than the operator in terms of personality and outlook

But drifter also died a bazillion times

So drifters probably over it

[humble sierra]

They're both pretty well written

[restive river]

That transference would be more akin to what a normal person can do, Ballas, Sylvana, our Tenno before we reclaim the innate abilities

[restive river]

Operator is like physically still a child, their experiences are bigger than their body and brain
Also a lot of trauma and memories being hidden away

[hollow trench]

And I’m hoping that part gets fleshed out a lot more

Since 2017 I’ve played and it has felt lukewarm at moments but I know it’s also a slow build up

[restive river]

Their reactions to a lot of things do make sense considering that, especially lotus eaters

[hollow trench]

Ye

[restive river]

I’m excited for more Operator moments tbh

I love Drifter as a character but we do need a balance
And Drifter gets more and more characterization with every new KIM convo

[hollow trench]

Me too, a lot of unfilled gaps that I’m hyped to see get closed

[brittle siren]

sorry for asking a lot, but how Drifter know so much about OP, or even anything

and how Hunhow and Stalker even mistake Drifter to the OP?

[restive river]

We know Operator is not getting a KIM convo equivalent so I hope they just get more moments and dialogue choices in future quests

[pine orchid]

they're the same person

[restive river]

Also new lines would be nice lol

[pine orchid]

but raised in different circumstances Xd

[hazy prism]

They sound like a polycule going through a rough patch

[hollow trench]

I saved the hex today

[restive river]

Yes and no
They were the same person up until the deal, they are biologically the same but their experiences, everything after does make them two different people entirely

[pine orchid]

(by op I assume you mean our operator)

[brittle siren]

I guess because Drifter have Lotus hand and memories with it

[restive river]

It’s like if you made a perfect clone of yourself, the moment your clone has a different experience they technically are a different person

[hollow trench]

Do they not experience each of their memories and vice versa or like have knowledge of it

[pine orchid]

yes I said same person raised in two different circumstances
maybe I should've kept them in the same message instead of splittig them lmao

[restive river]

Not everything, no
Before 1999 (and after) the other is in the void watching the other

They aren’t mentally linked though, no

[pine orchid]

like this

[restive river]

We’re an experiment to Wally

The whole Zariman incident was too tbh

[humble sierra]

Easy fix
"My Warframe is strong tough"
"We fought with honor honorably"
"Move and strike! We have to must win this"

Pay me DE

I keep things 100% fresh

[hollow trench]

Oh no I just realized the operator can see the drifter so do they see us in 1999

[strange plinth]

the one in the bubble can make thoughts and feelings known to the other
its reasonable imo that drifter gets a rundown of what operator was up to at some point

[stiff fable]

Iirc that isn't about Operator and Drifter

[strange plinth]

no. not sharing the same slot in spacetime if drifter is in 1999

[humble sierra]

We have no clue what it means yet, I think

No confirmation and a lot of vagueness

[restive river]

Nope, Operator is doing Old Peace stuff while Drifter is in 1999
The whole the other sitting in the void watching only occurs when they share the same spacetime

[hollow trench]

Ohhhh ok

[stiff fable]

Rather it's about how Wally hollowed out Rusalka by using the Duviri spirals to wind her down

[restive river]

For sure, but also Operator sent Drifter mail prior to 1999 lol

[hollow trench]

You think the hex would be chill with the operator

[restive river]

Ye

[stiff fable]

Yeah totally

[restive river]

Super chill

[humble sierra]

Except for Kaya

[strange plinth]

rebb saying 'kids can't type' like the operator didn't send a whole ass email to drifter:

[humble sierra]

She'd be very catty

[restive river]

Nah they’d get along

[hollow trench]

Kaya?

[humble sierra]

Operator and Kaya would have a sass off I think

[stiff fable]

Have you ranked the Hex to rank 5?

[restive river]

Operator would be way more tentative about Roathe than Drifter is lol

[stiff fable]

Kaya and the Operator can meet

[humble sierra]

Roathe would get 3 syllables in

[restive river]

Oh for sure
But I like to think they’d become friends, nerd out on stuff lol

[hollow trench]

Who is Kaya

[stiff fable]

Ah

[restive river]

Before he gets a void beam to the face

[humble sierra]

Reach rank 5 with the Hex syndicate

[restive river]

You’ll find out :)

[stiff fable]

Well let's just say there are a few surprises in 1999

[hollow trench]

I’m excited now

[humble sierra]

• Tyl Regor

[hollow trench]

Yeah I see this happening especially after the operators reaction to ballas lmao 😂

[pine orchid]

can you imagine Roathe picks himself up and just says "Really, children these days..." 😂

[thick yacht]

I wonder if operator knows about the Hex

[humble sierra]

They could potentially have experienced Arthur's death

[strange plinth]

iirc drifter can say that they tell the operator about them
in an eleanor chat?

[stiff fable]

Yeah

[humble sierra]

In Whispers

[thick yacht]

Could operator go to 1999

[restive river]

Void mode
Void sling
Tauron Strike
Bye bye Roache

[humble sierra]

Theoretically yes, now that the Indifference has been pushed out

[restive river]

Yes, but they have more pressing matters
Tau

[thick yacht]

I mean Erra got shot in the back almost immediately in TNW

[restive river]

The murmurs are there but that’s about it
Accursed little skin cells

[hollow trench]

Mary and Lyon talking to the drifter would be neat

Mary would be the sweetest person ever and Lyon would just be like a disgruntled old man

[brittle siren]

lmao is this your boss fight experience

[restive river]

Nah thats my Roache experience

[brittle siren]

OP: how the void you rizz everyone in here

[restive river]

Filthy bug roache

[thick yacht]

This would probably happen to Roathe but he wouldn’t have done shit to instigate

[restive river]

You mean Operator?

[thick yacht]

Just immediately being shot as soon as operator sees blue skin and hears a voice similar to Ballas

[hollow trench]

Yeah lmao I don’t know what happened there

[restive river]

Iirc Roache is one of the most dangerous Orokin too?

[restive river]

It happens to me too sometimes
Same person, kinda n all that lol

[hollow trench]

I’d die of laughter

[pine orchid]

I love when Marie goes off when she's usually so nice and sweet

[brittle siren]

and now with Uriel Strain he would be more terrifying

[restive river]

Why the text in a bubble in the second pic :o

[pine orchid]

google lens translator!

[brittle siren]

also does he use Uriel signature weapon during the boss fight?

[hollow trench]

Hearing Wally egg us on in the old peace as we see Uriel was the peak moment for me

[restive river]

Oooh
I thought it might be new accessibility I missed

[restive river]

Saaame

[hollow trench]

Marie’s French lines are hilarious

[pine orchid]

would be nice, I love hearing the different languages but I wanna know what they're saying too qwq

[strange plinth]

"They're laughing at you up there, kiddo."

[thick yacht]

Operator seems FAR more trigger-happy than Drifter

[hollow trench]

Makes me sad we killed him already tbh

[thick yacht]

Operator gives me shoot first ask questions later vibes

[brittle siren]

wait...
I have a theory

maybe Wally want us to ask him to kill ourself (since we can't die by normal means) so he could take over our body fully

[hollow trench]

I don’t blame them tbh

[strange plinth]

they have War Trauma
drifter just has execution loop trauma

[restive river]

What :?

[humble sierra]

"Rap, tap, tap. You'll let me in, little piggy!"

[hollow trench]

Operator is the equivalent of a combat veteran being in a medically induced coma and finding out the guy who ruined his life is still alive

[restive river]

||we die in the quest, apparently. So. Idk bout that||

[pine orchid]

tbf... they made us fight our husband and basically killed him and framed us for treason

[brittle siren]

I dont think that Uriel dead by us though

[hollow trench]

Ballas got off easy in the new war

[thick yacht]

Mfw Arthur meets a 14 year old child that has far more war experience than him despite him being in his 30s or something 😭

[brittle siren]

not dead dead like Rell

[thick yacht]

Dude would be like “damn what the hell happened to you?”

[humble sierra]

It's implied Adis gave his soul to revive us

[brittle siren]

yeah I forgor

[restive river]

Oooh
Tbh Lotus deserved the kill as much as we did, he deserved maybe something more gruesome but that’s about it

[brittle siren]

so it not that

[hollow trench]

Basically ww2 but in space

[pine orchid]

Arthur gon be like "I'd offer you a drink, but you look below drinking age... how bout a milkshake instead?"

[brittle siren]

kiss of death, at least he got what he wanted

[hollow trench]

Should’ve turned that mf into a Warframe and had void angels eat him

[restive river]

And now he burns!

[humble sierra]

There's a theory that Albrecht is using the (ARG Spoilers) ||Radiation that traps Operators into their Warframes on the Indifference to trap it in a Vessel so he can physically kill it||

[brittle siren]

a kiss while thinking that genuinely Margulis

[brittle siren]

also does Praghasa body survive?

[restive river]

Too dangerous tbh
Any possible remnant needs to be wiped clean by Sol

[strange plinth]

i like this theory conceptually
i just have no idea how it would be played out in game

[restive river]

Unknown!

[pine orchid]

I like this theory

[hollow trench]

Maybe through sorties?

[humble sierra]

Especially since that lore is hidden behind that ARG. Unless that's how ||Ascaris work||?

[thick yacht]

Like not even joking I think Operator’s canon kills from the Zariman all the way up until current would probably be more then the entire Hex combined

Them, Arthur, and Quincy would have some wild war stories

[hollow trench]

Honestly operator has them beat

[pine orchid]

but then that implies ||the comandeered frames do have Tenno trapped in them? I forgot but didn't Adis and Operator specifically say there isnt a Tenno inside? though unsure how they can tell||

[restive river]

That’s a good theory tbh, but it said ||permanent|| so idk bout that

[restive river]

||the commandeered frames did have tenno iirc||

[brittle siren]

What ARG are you guys mention about?

[hollow trench]

Technically the operator is chronologically thousands of years old despite not being physically older than like 14 right? So like that much experience and memory compounded is nuts

[humble sierra]

Idk I saw another line from Galastra that mentioned Tenno?

[restive river]

The interactive

[humble sierra]

That interactive site we spoke yesterday with the glitchy photos you need to click

[strange plinth]

i had considered that, yeah. ||apparently some galastra dialogue implies that the commandeered frames still have tenno attached? (idk i am unable to hear her half the time she's calling one in)||

[brittle siren]

well most of the thousand of years wasted in sleeping

[pine orchid]

||I coulda sworn Adis specifically said they didn't... but I'm gonna have to double check vods||

[restive river]

They should be able to physically age, they just didnt cause cryosleep lol

[brittle siren]

O H, so that was those glitches

[brittle siren]

no she did say Tenno inside has fallen

[hollow trench]

What’s the aging delay then is it like years different

[pine orchid]

iirc she says ||what happened to the tenno in those frames could happen to us, but that could also just mean they took the tenno out and killed them like how we almost died before Adis saved us||

[strange plinth]

oof galastra doesn't even have a wiki page yet?

[restive river]

What aging delay?

You mean the cryosleep?

[hollow trench]

The operator

[restive river]

Or just the difference between mental and physical age

[hollow trench]

Does the operator age slower

[restive river]

No.

[pine orchid]

it's not that their aging is delayed, it's that they were effectively frozen for like a thousand uears

[restive river]

They were in cryosleep

[brittle siren]

Funny that Galastra and Ruskava have so little screen time

[hollow trench]

The void doesn’t affect the aging?

[pine orchid]

their aging was on pause during the sleep

[strange plinth]

probably not slower than the average lifespan at that time
then they were frozen, so

[restive river]

Their exact age, both physical and mental are unknown
Just that physically they’re a child

[humble sierra]

We don't know how much time has passed while the Operator is awake. The Zariman incident— Night of the Naga drums could've been a year, Awakening—Recent Updates could also be a few months

[restive river]

Nothing suggests that it does

[hollow trench]

Huh you’d think it would

[brittle siren]

Since Rell can age

[restive river]

Rell died of old age, well his body did anyway

[brittle siren]

and he have to transfer his mind into Harrow

[restive river]

Also did that to seal Wally

[pine orchid]

probably the closest effect void has on age that we know might be Duviri because we know Drifter died for 100 looping years

[restive river]

More like a thousand but yeah

[humble sierra]

Drifter also grew up normally but stopped aging

[brittle siren]

also what was Harrow og purpose? To torture others?

[thick yacht]

Honestly even at some points drifter seems taken aback by what operator is capable of

[restive river]

Idk, bro’s just a priest ig lol

[humble sierra]

Just a cool Warframe

[brittle siren]

well consider Thrax keep reseting, I think Drifter age really slow due to that

[strange plinth]

dunno. Rell's harrow is technically the only one we know of
obviously he isn't unique, evidenced by Lyon and Harrow Prime

[hollow trench]

Garuda seems like a torture frame

[obtuse vine]

to farm aura

[hollow trench]

Or nyx

[restive river]

I like to think Operator teaches Drifter about the focus schools, since only Operator learned those

[pine orchid]

wasnt it just a hundred executions? thousand was from naga drums to tenno reawakening? idk hundred, thousand same difference when you're tenno ig 😭

[humble sierra]

Highkey I think they might be like Superman and Batman in this one page

[strange plinth]

garuda has no lore, just like. two sentences. queen of gore or whatever

[hollow trench]

She would fit the torture category tho

[brittle siren]

I mean yeah the OP is really knowledgeable through the scene that they cheating for Adis

[restive river]

I don’t think we know how many executions it was, but they were in the time loop for def over a thousand years
The first like, 10-20 years are them growing up and growing more and more, wanting to leave and then being apathetic to it all since nothing worked

[strange plinth]

maybe. depends on how quickly the bleedout occurs

[brittle siren]

since Oberon kit meme is gone, when Garuda no lore meme will end

[restive river]

LOL not if you get it wrong
But yeah lol, they would be the best thing for a focus school teacher

[hollow trench]

I love the fact the frames like hydroid and mesa call back to the old days and it makes you wonder how much of history did the orokin retain

[obtuse vine]

drifter is batman
operator is superman

[hollow trench]

Yes

[brittle siren]

we have a japanese puppet frame so

[restive river]

And then Drifter just becomes superbatman

[hollow trench]

Let’s go gambling!

I can’t stop winning!

[brittle siren]

I keep forgetting her name

[hollow trench]

Rivens weren’t enough for us so we needed komei

[brittle siren]

ah Koumei

[strange plinth]

not to be confused with Komi /s

[hollow trench]

It autocorrected to lomein

😔

[restive river]

Still wanting to play that with friends

[hollow trench]

Operator is master chief and the drifter is the arbiter.

[brittle siren]

also unrelated, but The Descendia is by far the most enjoyable "end game" mode I have played. It's just a better version of Circuit (with understandable less rewards but it still a lot)

[brittle siren]

we need a deco for this

[obtuse vine]

drifter becomes tibetan monk batman

[hollow trench]

You think Arthur would freak out seeing umbra

[brittle siren]

not "freak out", he would be more curious imo

unless ofc you tears down the shell of Umbra mask

but even then it just an "ew" from Arthur at most

[obtuse vine]

he might freak out if he thinks thts a possible outcome of his infection, a single burning memory

then he'd drink and pass out

[hollow trench]

Drifter would have to be the translator

[obtuse vine]

i dont think the drifter could even do tht

[brittle siren]

also Kullervo not escaping eternal torture part 2 💔

[obtuse vine]

we've never heard umbra say even 1 word

bro just yells

[brittle siren]

and moan

from his memory

[mystic lynx]

nightreign ahh bost list

[hollow trench]

I want more lore on umbra tbh

Like what does he see from his pov

[obtuse vine]

pause

what memories are u seein?

[hollow trench]

😭

[brittle siren]

jesus not even Harrow kit is this harmful

[humble sierra]

This is so ass

[brittle siren]

I mean
you know

[obtuse vine]

follow up question, CAN he see? his eyes are in his head

[humble sierra]

Neuroptics

[brittle siren]

like every single one is just you get one you lose 10

[hollow trench]

My guess is lidar

Functionally we don’t see eyes

Or ears

So how he fights so well? Idk

Hellen Keller would be proud

Aside from the sunder helm

[brittle siren]

how many Warframe has "eye" or sth like that?

[hollow trench]

Can warframes hear or see at all or is it just daredevil on roids

[brittle siren]

they def can hear

[hollow trench]

Do they feel tactile touch

[strange plinth]

that one nidus deluxe, umbra
dunno

[humble sierra]

Neuroptics

[brittle siren]

what

[brittle siren]

iirc Nidus Deluxe isn't reall an eye on his head (his shoulder does ik)

[humble sierra]

Mirage, Caliban Alt helmet, Dagath originally, some other stuff

[obtuse vine]

ok but what are those, cuz im imagining cyberpunk neuroptics as in normal eyes but cooler

[strange plinth]

oh yea dagath had a full face

[obtuse vine]

and most warframes clearly dont have eyes

[brittle siren]

Uriel alt kinda have eyes, his base also looks like a see through helmet

[hollow trench]

Maybe it’s like predator vision or how snakes see things?

[strange plinth]

yea basically. its whatever lets the frames have senses, presumably
its a part of every frame we make

[restive river]

"I learned this technique in Duviri"

[hollow trench]

They have insanely better perception than ppl

[mental herald]

How did ballass survive possibly thousands of years after the orokins extinction when he didn't have continuity?

[strange plinth]

the infestation can "see" you when you're invisible, the frames are likely similar

[brittle siren]

tbf that because they are hivemind so if one saw you all of them alerted

[obtuse vine]

so its either
their skin is covered with thousands of mini eyes
or
daredevil

[brittle siren]

also they can't see you unless you touch them

[strange plinth]

even if none see you. they will move towards you while you are invisible
they're able to sense things without seeing them

[hollow trench]

I feel like the daredevil route is easier to make sense of unless it’s like a bug

[brittle siren]

does Techrot do this too?

[obtuse vine]

there no real concrete answers but i assume its either he went into cryosleep or the orokin just live that long normally with no continuity

[hollow trench]

Wrinkly ballas lol

[strange plinth]

haven't tested on techrot admittedly
not much reason to be invis there
but i'd imagine they do

[brittle siren]

also unrelated again, I wish the door in backroom can lead to the Drifter camp

or Dormizone

[strange plinth]

completely different era there

[obtuse vine]

then proceeds to beam blast some poor random grineer lancer

[brittle siren]

Isn't backroom outside time itself?

[strange plinth]

its the backroom of the clothing store its attached to w/ some entrati embellishments tmk

[brittle siren]

I mean it looks like a portal to me. I would imagine it like the Howl's castle kind of door

[strange plinth]

even then, why attach a base of operations to a different base of operations

[pine orchid]

it would be funny to be able to bring your hex lover into the future like that

[brittle siren]

maybe it just me, but some deco like xenoflora looks unatural on the concrete floor, so I want to put it in the Drifter hideout, but then I have to change the base

[pine orchid]

Introduce Arthur to Kahl and his buddies

[brittle siren]

oops I forgot only Kaya has gone to the future

if the door can do that Kaya effort would be a waste

nvm dont do that

though pls let us use Dormizone as base of operation pls

[proper barn]

I only saw this now. But the orokin had ways to make new organs and eyes and skin.

[pine orchid]

Kaya would probably still want to know how it works and try to use her own powers

[proper barn]

They just also wanted new bodies.

[brittle siren]

well she was very determined because physically there is no time machine, yet. So if the door has that ability, she now just gonna do reserch for fun, and would make the process slower

[earnest sapphire]

I really want some Uriel lore but we’re probably not getting that until his prime drops 😭

[brittle siren]

her dream to escape the past and explore future

[brittle siren]

he does has lore though

they are Roathe's soldiers

[strange plinth]

there's a litte bit when you first talk to roathe, the "Devil of Tau?" option

[proper barn]

@mental herald also the whole thing about the orokin is they have such advanced Tech they can color all their skin and lengthen limbs. The Eyes And skin thing are cuz that's what loid does to give back Albretch his eyes his ears his voice.

[brittle siren]

can they dye their skin to pink I wonder

[pine orchid]

the helminth probably counts as one since that's how we went to the past, and we're apparently able to tranference them to the future (to explain gemini skins)
but she does mention wanting to figure it out herself so I took it as her not wanting to have to depend on us or anyone else

[strange plinth]

don't see why not
blue was just fashionable

[brittle siren]

though why one single long arm though

[dark compass]

It was just fashionable as well

It seems

The whole thing is that they're excessive

Blue, one long arm, probably some other weird decadent bs

Oh, and white eyes

[fast dew]

I like to think they did it to show they are above pointless physical labour, though that is purely headcanon

[proper barn]

I mean some of them don't do that but yeah it's just cuz they wanna.

[strange plinth]

i feel like there is a canon reason as to why the long arm was fashionable i just don't remember where to find it

[pine orchid]

just like how it was fashionsble to dye your hair black, have bangs longer on one side covering your face, and maybe also red contact lenses Xd

[brittle siren]

actually it was for glowing

[fast dew]

Iirc tuvul says something about "generosity" but we know thats bull

[dark compass]

The hand is for the top shelves

[proper barn]

Asymetry?

[brittle siren]

maybe for reaching peasant from far away so they can't smell the poor

[fast dew]

"Smell the poor"

[strange plinth]

ah, yes. tuvul, in the zariman projection things
"We stretched forth our Great Hands, shaped to match our generosity, and we gave."

[brittle siren]

I quote that from Helluva boss

[fast dew]

Asymmetry is nice but its a horrid thing to draw in a reference sheet

[brittle siren]

Glad Albrecht and Roathe hate long arm

[fast dew]

Albrecht probably didn't do it cus he was still physically doing shit, No clue about Roathe

[dark compass]

So like a symbol of being the "giver"

Even if it's BS, you can see how it comes from the point of condescension

[brittle siren]

Roathe dialogue implied that he don't like being the same like every other Orokin, like he said the Orokin society are too "safe"

[fast dew]

Ngl that's probably the random PR answer they gave the common people

[dark compass]

The horrible truth behind the Great Hand

[fast dew]

They don't like certain things being questioned

[dark compass]

What if orokin emperors had two great hands

[brittle siren]

and dont forget to avoid smelling the poor

[dark compass]

Gorilla physique

[fast dew]

I fully think that the Emperors existence was hidden from the rest of the origin system

[brittle siren]

not really

[obtuse vine]

I mean if roathe is to be trusted then all the hex have to do to reach the future is to just jump into the helminth in the backroom

[brittle siren]

Drifter know them

[fast dew]

We aren't allowed to ask on what grounds the executors rule, which makes me think they didn't want the idea of the emperors being known

Ehh, drifter also was friends w Albrecht

[dark compass]

Or maybe it's like in our world. Just some dumb tradition that rich people uphold because by the point you have literally everything in your life, there's zero care for material considerations

[fast dew]

Close to an orokin in general

[dark compass]

Nobody ever asked why great hand, everyone asked why not great hand

[lean garden]

While technically yes, we don't exactly know how to goad it into doing just that

roathe does because hes smart

[fast dew]

-# also to make sure there's no confusion here, i don't think the helminth can do this to regular people

[obtuse vine]

gameplay wise sure, but in lore i think the drifter definetly knows because they can freely hop between 1999 and the present

[obtuse vine]

define regular

[brittle siren]

but both he and the hex are proto frame

[fast dew]

I think they'd need to be helminth'd first. Or i think the helminth would just eat them lol

[pine orchid]

Roathe? We knew this from before Roathe came into the picture, like probably one of the KIM messages

[dark compass]

I imagine if protoframe gets through it'll be a ship of theseus type of thing. Operator is needed to hold the consciousness

[brittle siren]

they are helminth'd

[lean garden]

but the drifter isnt using the helminth to jump back and forth tho

[fast dew]

Thats... what im saying

[lean garden]

like drifter used the helminth to arrive yes, but going back and forth no

[brittle siren]

technically, they did, the Excal that it spit out during the Hex quest

[fast dew]

Im sayin that in order for people to travel via the helminth, you'd need to be helminth'd

[obtuse vine]

mustve missed tht message cuz roathe is the first tinme ive seen concrete evidence. previously i just sort of assumed tht was the case but had no proof

[lean garden]

pls read my next sentence

[brittle siren]

make sense, it just 1 way trip

[fast dew]

Ehh

[brittle siren]

I type the same time you send yours xd, sorry

[fast dew]

Not a one way trip, just we didn't go back that way on our own choice

[lean garden]

lololol

[obtuse vine]

then how do they traverse back to the sanctum to meet the triad?

[pine orchid]

you see it's all about how the conventional spacetime is like a very slippery well lubricated slide nd the void is everything outside the slide and can sometimes change the slide or move to earlier or later parts of the slide- Xd

[lean garden]

I mean technically it is a one way trip, because you didnt get a return ticket on the same airline

[fast dew]

Albrecht specifically made the helminth that spat out Roathe to die after

[brittle siren]

also we did go back through a Vessel right? at the end of the Hex quest

[fast dew]

Mhm.

[lean garden]

its like taking a boat to italy and then taking a plan home

[fast dew]

Albrecht only seemed to have one real set way

[strange plinth]

void travel, seemingly
kaya describes having to use the drifter as a lighthouse in the void

[fast dew]

Plan

Take a plan home

[lean garden]

the E is reserved for "Eat my jorts"

[fast dew]

I rode on a plan for the first time

[pine orchid]

yes, and she used the void to slingshot herself into the future

[earnest sapphire]

Wait, is Roathe the reason behind the creation of Uriel? He said something involving the word “hatchling” but I forgot

[fast dew]

Wonder who's paying Albrecht's phone bill.

[brittle siren]

who would win, Vessel or Hunhullus

[lean garden]

Hunhullus I imagine

[fast dew]

Vessels, cuz they got void shit ngl

[dark compass]

Loid

[brittle siren]

ofc it's Loid

[lean garden]

the vessels arent exactly all together

[brittle siren]

theoretically what if they do

[fast dew]

With what money 😭

[lean garden]

but like powered by the void =/= using it as a weapon

[brittle siren]

love

[obtuse vine]

my head hurts

[lean garden]

like the best the vessels seem to do its thwap

[fast dew]

Love is nice and all but it sure doesn't seem to keep the lights on

[earnest sapphire]

Entranti chilling in Tau while Loid is still missing that dude like crazy

[strange plinth]

we used one to tell loid that we had done our job, i don't think we went back through it

[pine orchid]

the... obols(?) they're kinda like gold coins....? XD

[fast dew]

That cutscene was so funny ngl. Poor loid tho. Broski must've dang near died at the sight of a vessel moving

[strange plinth]

hit him with the ✌️

[obtuse vine]

yeah thts also what I assumed but now im thinking how did they control it without transference

[fast dew]

Also.

This is what they look like under their skin.

[obtuse vine]

ew

[fast dew]

Whole model under there.

[brittle siren]

we went into Excal and let Helminth eat us, then time travel. At the end, we came forth to the present through the Vessel to tell Loid good news (and back to 1999 again too since we need to maintain the loop)

[strange plinth]

i wonder how much of that is loaded in each vessel model
just the visible bits? the whole thing?

[earnest sapphire]

What is this

[dark compass]

Oh that's kinda like how Qorvex looks under the concrete bits...

[brittle siren]

Vessel without the shell

[fast dew]

I think it is the whole body. But id need to see the actual files or clipping into them to see

[stiff fable]

Base Uriel yes. Roache was there when Uriel Prime was uncorked, and later his soldiers became Uriel Warframes while under his command.

[earnest sapphire]

Why were they building those things again?

[brittle siren]

to fight Wally

[obtuse vine]

I know theres literally no real answer to this so instead im gonna ask how do you think the vessels work as in how can the drifter travel through a vessel if there are no vessels in the past?

[fast dew]

Mhm. Matches up to the fact it seems to be built on infestation - like Qorvex

[earnest sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/black-guy-thinking-twitter-gif-12745318719229189212

[fast dew]

The vessels are built on Arthur's DNA

[brittle siren]

Vessels connected to each hex member

[obtuse vine]

what.....

[fast dew]

That's how. Also, helminth™

[brittle siren]

so we transference into Arthur then go back through that

[fast dew]

Ehh, as far as we know its only Aoi and Arthur.

[strange plinth]

the vessels are made with samples of the protoframes
so they could presumably be accessed through the protos? we got to arthur through the one vessel during whispers

[obtuse vine]

so u get into arthur and u can use him as a door into the future?

[stiff fable]

The vessels are built from the protos. So there's no Vessel in the past, but the Vessel is made from Arthur's DNA...

[obtuse vine]

wild

[fast dew]

The past, and yes.

[brittle siren]

but there 2 male one in the middle, it could be Amir's and Quincy's

[obtuse vine]

could also just be 2 arthur vessels

[fast dew]

Might i say, Albrecht certainly studied the human body to produce something this detailed.

[stiff fable]

I think they're both Arthur vessels

[brittle siren]

or you mean only Aoi and Arthur dna was used on all Vessel?

[brittle siren]

selfcest much? /j

[fast dew]

Ehh. We don't know for sure.

[dark compass]

https://tenor.com/view/giant-stone-samurai-mael-radec-gif-22013960

[stiff fable]

No, Amir is the one that seems to be sparking in the lab I think

[dark compass]

Wally bossfight

[fast dew]

Why would this be the case?

There's also like
A lot of vessels.

[brittle siren]

also their eyes remind me of this helmet

[strange plinth]

hmm i wonder if they have a common motif

[fast dew]

Wonder what that could be.

[brittle siren]

Does we know Orokin Gold is literally gold, or sth else entirely?

[strange plinth]

probably just gold

if you're referring to what Daklo says, he's upset that gold is being used for a sentient when it could obviously be used on something more orokin

[dark compass]

Don't trust anything that Racist Prime says

[pine orchid]

imagine being a sentient racist while being in a robot body

[obtuse vine]

do we know if daklo is a cephalon or just some random bot?

[dark compass]

Uses the same drone as ordis so I can't see why it's not a Cephalon

[pine orchid]

probably cephalon, it's a similar sentinel body to the one ordis uses in tnw

[strange plinth]

AI is outlawed as per the orokin's principles or whatever so it has to be a Cephalon

[dark compass]

^

[pine orchid]

they have a principle about that??

[strange plinth]

yea that was the whole controversy with the sentients being proposed

[fast dew]

Lowkey kinda based ngl

[pine orchid]

ooh I forgot there was pushback on the sentients idea

[fast dew]

And! ||i don't need to say they aren't always violent! It can be non-destructive!||

[dark compass]

They had an anti ai law even before Sentients

[pine orchid]

no AI allowed so they put people in their bots instead 😔

[dark compass]

Warhammer type shit

[strange plinth]

and meat in the walls of the towers

[fast dew]

Thats the best thing! We now now it wasn't required!

So.

Now we know Loid was just weird and had his skull cloned

[pine orchid]

I figured Cephalons are like taking their memories and not necessarily resulting in the death of the person, it just so happens they're usually already close to death to begin with or killed shortly after

kinda like in Soma, the video game

[fast dew]

Thats what usually happens, yes

[strange plinth]

is this roathe lore i'm behind on again

[pine orchid]

nah

[fast dew]

But apparently, it wasn't needed. Now we have the explanation for why Necraloid can exist with Loid existing

[fast dew]

Today's marie chat actually

[pine orchid]

I only have Soma and the fact that both Loid and Necraloid are in the same room together lmao

[brittle siren]

huh they fixed this

[pine orchid]

Today's marie chat for me was smth abt the entrati gamily

but I figured it was randomized within the rank anyway

[fast dew]

They do seem randomised, but you should get all of them if you enable it

[strange plinth]

what did it start with
i seem to be missing the info you're referencing
afaik, a cephalon still requires glassing

[fast dew]

WAIT SHIT

Sorry, confused it w the one we have in Marie's lol

Similar info

[pine orchid]

I never played the glassmaker, but I thought "glassing" was referring to the process as a whole

[dark compass]

Isn't it different for everyone

[fast dew]

We can unglass people :)

[dark compass]

And we can partially glass people

[fast dew]

Nora got unglassed iirc

[dark compass]

Yeah she was

[stiff fable]

Her glassing was in progress and early on

[strange plinth]

two steps in the process
the victims in glassmaker were glassed but not.. cephalized?

[fast dew]

Was a roathe chat, mb, but non-destructively nonetheless.

[fast dew]

Other way around iirc.

They were called cephalites.

[pine orchid]

maybe we should ask Loid

hey how did Necraloid get made

[strange plinth]

ah, incredibly vague. thanks roathe.

[fast dew]

I think its a touchy subject.

[obtuse vine]

what even is the necraloid, is it actually a cephalon?

[fast dew]

Loid seems to hate necraloid for every reason

[fast dew]

Mhm. Multiple times hes been said as such.

[obtuse vine]

cuz we know otak is a damaged cephalon but i dont know what necra loid is

[strange plinth]

referred to as a cephalon more than as a construct now
so yes more likely a cephalon

[obtuse vine]

where?

[fast dew]

Kimchats mainly

[cunning tapir]

I would imagine it's like copy/paste someone's consciousness. Though if that's unheard of idk.

[obtuse vine]

hm

[fast dew]

Mm, we didn't know for sure, we assumed at first Albrecht just cloned Loid and glassed the copy

A rather morbid option

[strange plinth]

seemed the most likely, given the 'replicated skull' line

maybe loid wasn't willing?

[fast dew]

But thankfully Marie agrees with the idea Albrecht made necraloid from a place of love

[pine orchid]

yeah probably wasn't particularly pleasant and weird to have yourself separate from you

[fast dew]

Have you heard how he calls necraloid "Construct"? He says it like a slur.

Loid i don't think you can say that man
– my operator bcs i said so

[pine orchid]

he said it like daklo says void lugger 😭

[strange plinth]

i'd argue Loid has more malice behind "construct" than Daklo has behind "void lugger"

[pine orchid]

could also be metaphorical imo, copied skull as in the memories contained in your skull

[fast dew]

I think it was begrudgingly allowed

[fast dew]

No, it was physical. Dante wanted to look at it lol

[marble pewter]

I was wondering the same after my chat with Marie the other day. One of the Drifter lines was along the lines of - Necraloid is a unique case but Otak has a soul.

[pine orchid]

oh maybe I missed/forgot the dante lore part then

[fast dew]

The entrati family have whole ossuaries and crypts. They just really liked bones.

[fast dew]

For simplicity's sake, take a look at the paris catacombs and you'd have a good idea of what it would look like.

Iirc we did see a bit of concept art for the entrati crypts. Had something to do with their servants

[obtuse vine]

who's bones are they collecting

[pine orchid]

did they keep the bones of their servants??

[stiff fable]

Yeah I imagine they did

[fast dew]

Found it! I couldn't find the original artstation post - ai labelled and needed reuploading as it very much didn't have ai involved, so the servant part is lost, but i did see it! Specifically morgue related more than crypt related

[dark compass]

I assume the capsules with skulls in the necramechs are just bodies then

[fast dew]

Kek

[dark compass]

Or at least they were initially imagined as such

[fast dew]

Mhm. That's what the logical assumption is

This is never used ingame, ever

So take it with a grain of salt

[lean garden]

thats how you know the arts not AI for sure

[dark compass]

Makes sense for overall design

Like a crude warframe. but instead of a body being transformed it's pretty much a corpse connected to a robotic body

[fast dew]

Well, that and it was done around 2019/2020, which... i don't think ai was all too good then

[dark compass]

And ties to the name being literally Necramech

Couldn't be more obvious ig

[pine orchid]

I love them

[fast dew]

Its so painfully obvious but its so nice.

I will now choose to think Bonewidow has Mother's skull

[dark compass]

It's not said out loud, but I'm sure they are still running with it in concept

[pine orchid]

guess they just couldnt find a good place to put it, cool as it is

[dark compass]

Maybe it's really just their servants

I feel like just spilling it would be a bit too on the nose

[fast dew]

I like the idea that the entrati side of the family likes to make copies of their lovers skulls to put it on things

[dark compass]

Sounds like a kim conversation type of offhand confirmation

[fast dew]

At least they cared for the dead that served them

[dark compass]

Also if it's their servants it would mean Snake was someone who Father was particularly fond of

Rip Snake

[fast dew]

Hell, i think Daughter has a line specifically about how the family wouldn't be complete without the servants

[dark compass]

Yeah I will choose to believe Snake was one of their closest friends

[pine orchid]

"Snake? Snaaake!"

he literally calls out like that if you die in the necramech part of that quest lmao

[fast dew]

Thats a metal gear reference afaik

[pine orchid]

yes lmao

[dark compass]

Yeah it is

[pine orchid]

I found it hilarious

[dark compass]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-solid-mgs-big-boss-naked-snake-muckbang-gif-26755552

[pine orchid]

my partner never heard the voiceline because he never died in that quest Xd

[eager briar]

Relatable

[maiden flame]

I'm kinda wondering, what is that huge dark structure in the distance that sprouting lightning/electricity?
is it part of the lab or its something else?

[fast dew]

They do seem to be part of the labs. The labs were augmented by the void even without Wally's shenanigans. If we assume that what roathe says about it is true.

[strange turtle]

Lab stuff

Look like, downwards in the holes and gaps in the labs and out the of the open railing areas and you can see more stuff like that

[hearty hare]

I can't help but think that there's no way that it is part of the lab stuffs. At least for me I feel it's obvious that void shenanigans is going on on that sections, and the stuffs over there weren't originally part of the lab. I feel like it's some sort of extreme void distortions causing the whole thing to expand / extend / duplicate / distorts. I find it hard to believe the lab is originally that huge and they core out the ground to that extreme.

[twin wigeon]

pretty sure albrecht made the labs intentionally labyrinthine in design to trap the murmur temporarily

[strange plinth]

sounds like something he'd do

[twin wigeon]

because we do know that the terminals scattered about, have data to help him navigate as evident by netracell terminal dialogue

[lean garden]

maybe its void shenanigans, but its likely abrecht shenanigans, since you can see the divide between the indifference side and lab side

[twin wigeon]

i refer them to bone beaches-

yes i know murmur is made of dust and decay and misery and allat

[hearty hare]

I always thought the sandy stuffs are some sort of proof of indifference influence, and those sand floor onwards weren't originally part of the lab

[strange plinth]

also works
iirc the sand/stone areas are called The Great Indifference in concept art n stuff

[twin wigeon]

the sandy stuffs are proof of wally's influence creeping in at the seams as deimos is most void exposed with the heart of deimos existing there as well as albrecht's experiments taking place there

[lean garden]

I wouldnt say thats wrong, because that's pretty much how its understood

the labs werent meant to be sandy

[twin wigeon]

just like how the orbiter was never meant to have infestation 🙁

poor ordis, cleaning that perpetual mess in the corner

[hearty hare]

yeah. That's why I don't think the stuffs on the background aren't part of the lab. Or, at least, it no longer is. I have to imagine wally or plain void influence cloning / enlarging / readjusting stuffs they "reclaimed" from the lab

[twin wigeon]

the stuff in the background might be fragments of labs or their undersides that are exposed to void swirling below

either way the screaming heads might be to mock albrecht or to scare him

[hearty hare]

kinda quirky that the sand stuffs are now identified as wally influence. They never show any of that before this

[twin wigeon]

pretty sure its alluded to before

[lean garden]

well, its not surprising, this is the first time we've had to see it with our own eyes

[lean garden]

it has?

[twin wigeon]

that the sandy stuff is all wally's influence?

[dark compass]

It's not just influence, it's him

[hearty hare]

I'm pretty sure that.... uh.. ||literal giant "man in the wall" in the new war sequence is displaying albrecht's face right? The half face looks exactly like albrecht's face in his orokin form||

[twin wigeon]

ewwwww bone

[dark compass]

Yes

[strange plinth]

i mean, the murmur are him
i'd say the sandy stuff is his domain of the void more than it is him

[stiff fable]

mmmm. The Murmur are made out of the dust of destroyed universes.

Meanwhile, sand is kinda... big dust.

[twin wigeon]

the man in the wall looks like alberecht bc wally is albrecht's creation via Conceptual embodiement, and then the pose is mimicking the vitruvian man

[strange plinth]

scholar's landing is similarly covered in the sand and rock, but i'm not sure if it always was or just after wally returned it to duviri

[stiff fable]

That's not exactly Scholar's Landing, or Duviri tho'

Wally's fanfiction recreation of it

[hearty hare]

this I have to disagree. Is that from the roathe's theory? I still think wally is using albrecht's face because albrecht's is the first living being that he sees, and he takes up his form, the same way that it does to us.

[strange plinth]

roathe's theory echoed a quite popular one in the community already tbf

[twin wigeon]

i thought scholars landing was a island that alberecht makes to study the void closely and to warn the thrax? and then wally starts to invade and so thrax banishes it to the void

[strange plinth]

iirc scholar's landing disappeared when the scholar did

then wally returns with it, or some version of it, later on for isleweaver

[twin wigeon]

the scholar has to be albrecht

[strange plinth]

mhm

[stiff fable]

He was

[strange plinth]

the scholar's grave in titan's rest is empty iirc

[stiff fable]

Wally-Rusalka talks about how Oraxia was his guardian Warframe, until Wally offered her as much prey as she wanted to swap sides

[strange plinth]

i don't remember exactly what he was doing there
he taught thrax some cautionary tales about wally or something, then he disappeared
oraxia was also there I Guess

[twin wigeon]

wallsalka mimicked albrecht to convince oraxia to help them instead

rully

[stiff fable]

It's actually never said why or how Albrecht ended up in Duviri

he goes from talking about the Cavia to talking about Duviri

[fast dew]

Seriglass bell, diving into the void ig

[twin wigeon]

thats a good point

[stiff fable]

Probably actually

[twin wigeon]

because we get to duviri via the rift the links the zarimans in our and drifters dimensions

[stiff fable]

He mentions he feels awful about what he did to Tagfer and that he needs to pay for his sin (unleashing Wally) himself

So he probably threw himself into the Void

[twin wigeon]

and ended up in duviri?

[stiff fable]

I knew, then, that my gambit had lost. So long as I worked through scapegoats, my guilt would only deepen. I must atone for what I had done through my own blood.```

[strange plinth]

albrecht, kullervo, lotus's hand
things that managed to land in duviri

[stiff fable]

Teshin

[strange plinth]

teshin

[stiff fable]

And a Corpus Jackal

[strange plinth]

ehh, the jackal's in the undercroft

[fast dew]

Nooo Albrecht feels no guilt thats a lie done by Albrecht to manipulate us. Because he would lie in notes we're not supposed to read/s

Seriously something i had to explain before.

[stiff fable]

For the opposite, one of DE's brainworms for a future PoE update is a lost Duviri island crashing into it

not plan, idea

[celest needle]

Is there any reason for the earlier primes appearances being so... ungilded? Just the visual difference between guys like frost and rhino prime who are all black with minimal design differences and just black compared to the newer primes with white and covered in ornate gold.

[twin wigeon]

so duviri is gonna crash into poe?

[dark compass]

Damn, Drifters got an open door

[fast dew]

Some people are so deadset on thinking Albrecht must be this gigaevil man who purposefully hurts people because he doesn't like them. Its so tiresome.

[stiff fable]

literally DE just didn't know what primes would look like

[strange plinth]

hit it with lorn or something lmao

[dark compass]

Just early game quality

[stiff fable]

They were making up everything as they went along

[dark compass]

You can see how release/early update primes are just base designs but with gold and barely any additional bits

[strange plinth]

actually hold on what would be the best lost island to hit the plains

[stiff fable]

Excalibur worst prime

[twin wigeon]

take excal prime which is just excal with a janus key in his face

[strange plinth]

janus key face (derogatory) /s

[dark compass]

All Vauban got is a couple spikes and a triangular codpiece

Actually his head is a bit more different than others

[stiff fable]

Cornucopia or The Galleria

Or we could get one of the namedropped ones that don't get an entry

Like the Execution Cyst or the Golden Hive

[fast dew]

The Galleria... isn't that a real place in the orokin empire?

[stiff fable]

no

The Zariman tablet refers to the Duviri island

[fast dew]

No, thats a real one, Albrecht mentions it, i swear

[stiff fable]

nope

[dark compass]

Sorry I ate it

[stiff fable]

He mentions galleries but that's just fancy old fashioned scientist stuff

[strange plinth]

seconding Cornucopia, not sure about Galleria though
i'd say Watcher's would be interesting if it didn't disintegrate on its own. unsure if it'd be able to reform or if its permanently scattered

[strange turtle]

Mag prime is dirty for some reason 😭

Legit like, grease stains

[celest needle]

Ash got some equipment

[drowsy saddle]

I excuse Excal prime because its perfection via removal of all unnecessary components

[obtuse vine]

something to actually do in the plains? impossible

[obtuse vine]

probably because the hex see him that way. understandable considering he stabbed them with super AIDS

[fast dew]

People for some reason refuse to acknowledge that the hex are very, very biased.

[obtuse vine]

I look at it this way, If my friends said this one guy wronged all of them and they all hated him

Id hate him too

If we had a more personal friendly connection to entrati it would be different

[strange turtle]

Issue is that we knew him before this, and understand his reasons and why he did it

[fast dew]

Which is fair! If you have no other and outside information about that person 😭 especially when it adds context to the actions he did

[obtuse vine]

u assume people read the lore near necraloid

[strange turtle]

Idk why they don’t address that like it just comes up in Isleweaver and then nothing

[fast dew]

The drifter themselves knew Albrecht before all of this. Sure they could've forgotten, but still

[fast dew]

Well, isleweaver was a followup

It was a follow up to the theory that drifter knew Albrecht from Albrecht's notes

[lean garden]

to beeeee faaaair

[strange turtle]

I meant now, like with the Triad

[lean garden]

by the time of HoD...

drifter isnt in yet

so like if anything, the child would have been the one

[fast dew]

I was meaning Albrecht's notes 😭

[lean garden]

oh those

[fast dew]

Thats when we learn he was in duviri, wasn't it?

[lean garden]

yes

[strange plinth]

yea
but that's what we have the roathe chat comment for

[lean garden]

and also yknow, when duviri came out

[obtuse vine]

knew of and being friends with are 2 different things tho

[fast dew]

Albrecht actively taught thrax and the drifter about wally 😭

[obtuse vine]

if my uncle shot my friends while saying "tau is in sight" im throwing hands

[fast dew]

Thats why he is called "the scholar"

[obtuse vine]

oh wait yeah i forgot he was in duviri for a time

if my middle school teacher came back into my life and shot my friends while yapping about tau id be pissed

[pine orchid]

I mean we barely knew the hex at that point, we met them on the same day friends may be putting it strongly BUT you can still care about your associates enough to want to save them

[obtuse vine]

wait hold on i think ive lost the plot. are we still talking about players thinking doktor E stands for doktor Evil or are we talking about what the dripter thinks about albrecht?

[fast dew]

I mean depends on the teacher for me lowkey

If my old drama teacher went off and shot my friends at the time, i lowkey wouldn't be mad

Those friends were super toxic and that teacher was awesome

[pine orchid]

what the drifter thinks abt albrecht is mostly shaped by your conversation options no? iirc some options were like "he's a downright ahole through and through" or like "he doesn't do great things and makes mistakes, but he's just trying to do what he thinks is best",

[obtuse vine]

no more like ur old drama teacher time travelled to now and shot the people u like now

would u still be not mad?

[fast dew]

Well. Thats the thing.

I do an Albrecht and avoid connections at all costs

[obtuse vine]

talking in a discord counts as connections

[restive river]

What
Doktor evil???
Is that
Real????

[obtuse vine]

im sorry to break it to ya

[obtuse vine]

no im just making jokes

[fast dew]

Mm, there's that on maybe Marie's chat, but overall its pretty negative.

[restive river]

Omg thank the void 😭

[fast dew]

I'll be brutally honest, out of all the people i know on discord, deadass only 3, maybe 4 people id be genuinely upset over dying

Even then, it kinda just. Slides off after a few weeks 😭

[pine orchid]

I swear there were similar options throughout the KIM messages, like yeah generally agreeing what he did is Not Good™ but more like overall the degree of how much grace you give him with his intention of fixing his past mistake (Wally)

[strange turtle]

Doktor Friday
Friday, the end of the week, the end times
It all makes sense now

[restive river]

1999 starts and ends on Friday

We end as we began
On a friday

[strange turtle]

That devious bastard

[pine orchid]

ah yes, Lettie Conversation 2 (Give me a reason not to hate Entrati)

[fast dew]

Recounting my experiences with people refusing to acknowledge that Albrecht isnt giga evil

Genuinely believing Albrecht abused Euleria. This has happened more than 2 times.

Albrecht abused loid. Usually in the same breath as the Euleria one

Albrecht cheated on his wife with Loid (this was before we actually knew he had a wife, pre-1999)

He ||killed his wife, which was like. Yesterday in another server||

Uhh what else

[pine orchid]

is the one I was specifically thinking of though idr if there are any in other chats

I feel like a lot of Albrecht's family problems are just him being Trash™ at communicating

[obtuse vine]

trying to turn friday into a bad day
by the void he truly is Evil

[fast dew]

Which honestly seemed to have come after the void incident, which undoubtedly left him with some form of PTSD, which causes issues with communication!

I be feeling like folk forget Albrecht does absolutely have trauma

[pine orchid]

to be fair with Wally mimicking Loid in Hollvania... kinda warranted how do you know the Loid you're talking to rn isnt Wally in disguise

[fast dew]

EXACTLY

Omd. Oh my days.

[pine orchid]

I personally don't think he's evil evil. But I wouldn't say he's good either, like he clearly does bad actions, he doesn't seem to care about the cavia past them being experiments in his single mindedness in trying to figure out how wally worked, I think one of his notes or voicelines or smth mention he feels he cant show his face in front of his daughter anymore or smth? idr?

[obtuse vine]

his goal is just but his actions are unethical

[fast dew]

He can't look at the cavia, he feels incredibly guilty over leaving his daughter for duviri, even if it was temporarily, he can't express the words he wants to, to loid

He holds a lot of guilt

[obtuse vine]

honestly if wally's weakness really is love and empathy then albrecth just needs to hug loid and his family on deimos

[pine orchid]

He needs to see a Therapist

[fast dew]

Albrecht: Physically cannot look at the cavia from the guilt he feels

Noooooooo Albrecht doesn't feel guilty

https://tenor.com/view/rage-gif-24341837

[fast dew]

Tbf there's a high chance he didn't know about that until 1999 ngl

[vocal remnant]

I don't know why but I somehow thought Grandmother was Albrechts wife lmao

Didn't notice that would be quite problematic at first

[pine orchid]

easy assumption to make, but yeah they're more in-laws Xd

[fast dew]

I need to draw this.

[pine orchid]

do it 😂

[fast dew]

I would if i had the pen for my tablet 😭

[main crane]

Hey guys. Since the Prime Vanguard is under Galastra's control via Ascaris Prime bolts and she says something like "Guess what happened to their operators", does that mean we're killing other Tenno in the process? I'm pretty sure their operators don't pilot the Warframes from transference pods since at that point the Tenno still has their innate transference.

[pine orchid]

I understood it as their operators are already dead and they're just empty frames at that point

oh here I found the Adis line that was saying no Tenno in the commandeered primes

[humble sierra]

Or maybe he's saying "she's trying to control Warframes but she's not a Tenno? She can't handle it"

[pine orchid]

it's possible

I guess it could be either or, my first impression was the meaning that it was an empty frame

the Tenno aren't necessarily dead inside the warframes after all right since we were outside of ours while dying at the end

[drowsy saddle]

I don't think the orokin would let their finite and very valuable shock troop operators kick the bucket...

Unless this is a gameism and Galastra only got her hands on the 6 primes

[pine orchid]

it's also (imo) notable that the commandeered primes are different primes to the ARG ones, implying different fates could've befallen those Tenno

[dark compass]

didnt those tenno get gassed and experimented on

due to the weird radiation thing theyve found

[pine orchid]

yeah, but I didn't think it was literal and was more taking the memory out

so as in, those frames could still be intact with just dead Tenno inside somehow

idk ig it's hard for me to figure out when they're being literal or just being poetic

[dark compass]

I always assume literal until proven otherwise

I find it easier to believe in some new world building part than writers intentionally making up some bizarre allegory for just one thing among the number of very clear literal parts

[pine orchid]

it's mostly because I found it hard to imagine if it were literal, like "The Orokin had to peel our skin and suck up the meat inside." sounds like the Orokin ate the warframes to me 😭 and then with the rest of the line being "The Orokin had to peel our skin and suck up the meat inside. Our last moments together, crystallized for a training module." to me sounded like they're trying to convey they're poking at the bodies and trying to get past the physical, so the memory of their last moment together is the "meat"

[drowsy saddle]

At this point anything orokin is metaphorical till proven otherwise

[dark compass]

I mean doesn't it just mean they cut them open and scooped it all out

[pine orchid]

unless the memories are literally contained in the flesh or smth I guess because then with the message, the thing says "Some small part of their story will live on here, in the cracked glass and data where I've poured a bit of our blood and tears."

[dark compass]

But fair enough

[pine orchid]

I suppose could see it as them trying to cut open the warframe and see if the physicality of the warframe changed when a Tenno is bound inside it? like Tenno are usually incorporeal when piloting a Warframe and with the radiation they're checking to see if some physical Tennobits are there?

[humble sierra]

Or they're trying to see if there's a physical component to the "soul"

[drowsy saddle]

So they could shove it into an ayatan

[dark compass]

Yeah, that's what I personally took out of it

Since it's apparently "sealing" the Tenno inside

[pale cedar]

People cut Warframes open and get shocked when they can't explain what's powering them

Vor been doing that before we even had Operator in the game

[lean garden]

I thought they were glassed?

[main crane]

And Alad V

[pine orchid]

I'm not sure tbh I didn't think the glassing part was a necessary step of extracting data, cuz like we have Ayatan stars I figured it was a similar process to that

[drowsy saddle]

Duct tape and void glue

[honest patrol]

wait, how does resetting the triad work? 1999 was a timeloop that you were not subject to, which granted the drifter the ability to remember when others forgot. the triad doesn't have that unless I missed something, so how can they be reset?

[lean garden]

well, theres an explanation, but its a spoiler for now because its unobtainable

[honest patrol]

oh ok 👍

[prime grove]

I may have found the most heart breaking piece of lore ever

So y'all know the dog from the old peace quest?

Yeah well he gets turned into Archon Amar

See y'all can see the resemblance

[dire current]

Yep... Amar got done really dirty, by the War. Same can likely be assumed with Boreal and Nira

[unique sorrel]

https://youtu.be/3u7RcsrPFj0

What do yall think of this?

[pale cedar]

Delusion only

[pale cedar]

It makes 0 sense as much as DE plan things in advance

What it actually is be lighting being lighting and he wouldn’t be in the trailer because it’s Harrow not Uriel

[unique sorrel]

[strange turtle]

Idk Nira’s pretty manipulative

[white cargo]

how exactly are tenno dying? i thought it had been established that they're functionally immortal due to Oro

[fast dew]

... oro means nothing

Not right now at least

And we literally see Rell die from old age

Oro just seems to be a fill in for the word Soul

[lean garden]

Oro is a fools game for anyone who believes it to be some immortal supernatural essence instead of a concept of a sentient mind RAAAAAAAAAH

[pine orchid]

Old Peace seems to now establish our revive mechanic is linked to ||Adis' healing powers, his light if you will. And without it, we nearly died at the end of the second Hunhulus fight. Plus the ARG also establishes that at least 4 Tenno were trapped inside warframes and got gassed so they're dead too.||

[lean garden]

I would like to caveat that the revive mechanic should not be linked to ||adis, as other warframes/tenno have access to revive systems too, without having the trauma of your sentient best friend dying||

[dire current]

After the war, yes. We do not know how Nira behaved beforehand. We know how Amar did thanks to the Old Peace, but Boreal, Nira, (and Pazuul, I realize) are still unknowns.

[pine orchid]

||other Tenno meaning everyone else in the server? I thought it was a weird parallel universes thing||

[pale cedar]

What I do wonder is what the PC ment by “Knowing he cannot kill the Tenno”

[lean garden]

||other tenno meaning that mirage that died, despite lotus activating the revive system||

[pine orchid]

||huh, I forgot about that. we never really see other canonical Tenno get revived, I figured our revive in Old Peace was thanks to Adis's powers||

[lean garden]

||Thats the thing, Im not desputing that Adis brought us back, because well, we're getting revived not the warframe. im disputing that its the reason why the revive mechanic exists||

[dark compass]

||there are no revives in the old peace and I'm really wondering if revives are enabled if you somehow go down as Uriel in the last section||

I think it would've been a neat confirmation

[pale cedar]

I think it would just reset you

[pine orchid]

alright then fair enough

[dark compass]

Need someone who wants to replay it and deliberately die there

[pale cedar]

You can’t replay it yet

[pine orchid]

would be nice to replay old peace huh. shame

[dark compass]

Oh right

Then we need someone who hasn't played it

[pale cedar]

They rarely make quests replayable straight away

It took 5 years for replayable Heart of Deimos

[white cargo]

the spaghetti code strikes again

[lean garden]

Actually shrimple thing: someone redo war within

final fight in your warframe, see if you can die

[white cargo]

wasnt aware that they had made oro a non-issue in canon, thought it was more significant

[lean garden]

the latest info we've got was albrecht dismissing it as something to do with a consciousness

it was never as grand as loretubers made it sound

[fast dew]

Some things may seem important, but overall it might be insignificant. Kinda like eternalism ngl

[white cargo]

so "dying" in operator form is more like hitting the o no button and getting out of there '

had always assumed it was just you actually dying, getting reset by the void like in war within, then spat back into your warframe

[fast dew]

We don't even die in regular combat, do we? We get to like. 2hp and we skadoodle back

[pine orchid]

could also be tht at the very last second we just transference back into our frames, like a subconcious thing

[dark compass]

Lotus has a weird revival mechanism she mentions in the hidden messages quest

[pale cedar]

CPR Warframe edition

She mentions she can surge a Warframe

[dark compass]

She can what

[pale cedar]

In Vor’s prize she says she is surging the power systems of the frame

[white cargo]

yeah i think that line still plays when you do the new tutorial mission

i feel like she says it somewhere else

[frosty latch]

So... drifter is the operator but in the timeline where he never got rescued from the void?

[pale cedar]

Yes

Still made a deal though

[frosty latch]

To escape duviri?

[white cargo]

think wally gave him powers and just left him there lol

could be misremembering

[pale cedar]

To save them

Wally didn’t give Drifter powers they were left out

[frosty latch]

From what i understand, ball ass cut off mommy's hand (the lotus), which ended up in duviri

[fast dew]

Not even that. Just left the drifter's ass on the zariman

Basically the drifter got mucked over by word play.

[frosty latch]

And he used it to gain transference?

Or he has transference due to his time in the void?

[pale cedar]

Rare Drifter L

[white cargo]

think its funny that wally decided to fw drifter like that

love of the game

[frosty latch]

?

[white cargo]

think it is due to the lotus hand

[fast dew]

Its from the hand, yes.

[frosty latch]

What does lotus hand have to do with transference?

Isn't that from the void?

[fast dew]

... great question but we know they're related

[frosty latch]

When is the orokin massacre?

[fast dew]

We don't know exactly when

[frosty latch]

Graduation day in the old peace?

[fast dew]

Oh, no. Not that.

[white cargo]

some time soon after old peace probably

[fast dew]

The night of the naga drums happened a bit later.

[frosty latch]

Yeah, that's when we got put into the second dream or something

Right?

[white cargo]

margulis seems to put them into the dream right after old peace

[swift gyro]

Do the game talk about other tenno? like, there is us then there is Jeff:

[pale cedar]

There’s multiple quests showing other Tenno

And mentioning other Tenno

[swift gyro]

really? i dont remember bcs i stopped playing warframe a while, then i came back just a bit after 1999 release, i stopped about 3-4 years, so i dont remember mostly of the story.

[obtuse vine]

huh.....so constructs is just another term for cephalon?

[swift gyro]

DE really have to make more chats with 1999 gang, imagine if they did an chat with ballas....

[fast dew]

Ballas is dead

[wide halo]

that or drifter is conflating the two

[fast dew]

Holy shit its glados

[wide halo]

sup

[obtuse vine]

no wonder loid hated the necraloid......thts like a dead digitized clone of himself

[fast dew]

I uh. Gotta look at what the shit marie is saying here

[fast dew]

Later chat spoilers ||but turns out, Cephalons can be done without killing the person.||

[pale cedar]

I can save them all of them you just have to want it, let’s say we shake on it

"Where are all your classmates? You know… Terolee and Nimian and Rell and the one with the, um, 'unusually vibrant' hair?"

[fast dew]

Which is... comforting.

[wide halo]

right

[obtuse vine]

only slightly

[fast dew]

Means i don't need to worry about Albrecht copying loid and killing him 😭

Now we need to wonder what Loid's duplicated skull could be for

Aesthetics with the entrati family

[obtuse vine]

oh so necraloid functions exactly the same as ordis in his shell

[fast dew]

Mhm

[obtuse vine]

gotcha

[swift gyro]

Oh! right, it appears. but is there a tenno that appeard and had importance or till now only, others tennos were just mentioned in messages?

[pale cedar]

Rell

[frosty latch]

Like what?

[pale cedar]

Scroll up

[swift gyro]

||cephalon are a copy of an person no?||

[pale cedar]

They aren’t a copy of a person the body is erased

Loid is a special case

[swift gyro]

||so then, they transfer the mind/consience to an robot body?||

[pale cedar]

Cephalons aren’t robots

Think of them like a human turned into a computer

[thick yacht]

cephalons are the Warframe equivalent of Servitors from Warhammer 40,000

Except Cephalons don’t have human form

[thick yacht]

Ordan Karris

🥀

[swift gyro]

K, ik it sounds strange but idk why android 18 sounds like a cephalon..? she was originally human that was turned into a robot, it would kinda be the same ´´process´´ of robot transform? beside having an body ofc

[pale cedar]

Cephalons aren’t like Android 18 though

Cephalons are digitised life forms

There’s not even a body left for them just stuck as a computer with precepts to do certain things

[swift gyro]

Like an AI then? but it would be possible to make an cephalon goes to a body? didnt ordis were an digitised and then got an robotic body?

[pale cedar]

There’s no way to give them a body

[swift gyro]

but they do have consience and know about the their past or majority forgets about that?

[thick yacht]

Did he not get a physical form sometime during or after the collapse of the system during the New War?

[pale cedar]

That’s not exactly a body

[swift gyro]

yeah, thats what i asking, ordis was an blue thing . then he went to a robotic body

[pale cedar]

He’s still physically stuck as the Orbiter

[brittle siren]

Why some people still think Old Peace is Eternalism

[swift gyro]

i mean, depends on what you consider being a body. bcs this could be consider a body for him on his situation.

[silk atlas]

Stupid

[fast dew]

"Blue thing" is his body
Thays ordan. That's what happens to a person when theyre glassed.

[brittle siren]

Watch your mouth Void Lugger

[pale cedar]

Warframe players think everything after New War is Eternalism

[brittle siren]

Technically, the blue thing is just a holographic image of a Cephalon. Each Cephalon have a core, kinda like the cpu

[swift gyro]

Thays ordan?

[pale cedar]

The thing he used isn’t a body just something he can use to get around while stuck as the Orbiter he can’t get a human body again is what I mean

[brittle siren]

Yeah

Unless we fuse him with a Sentient body

A mimic perhaps

[pale cedar]

Which we don’t even know if that’s possible

[brittle siren]

I mean Hunhow did the opposite

[swift gyro]

even with that ´´owl body? (it looks like it) he cant leave the spaceship?

[fast dew]

The glass cube? That's it. That's the brain of a cephalon. Cephalons really liked cubes. And rectangles

[brittle siren]

He could send that Sentinel body far away from the ship

[pale cedar]

Only with that can he go places

[brittle siren]

Like what Simaris does but much more direct

[swift gyro]

but if we managed to put him in that ´´owl´´ body, doesnt that mean we could put him in an android body? like this? (sorry for the goofy example of robot body)

[pale cedar]

We could put him in a body nothing says if he can actually control it he hasn’t got transference

[fast dew]

Lookin ahh

[swift gyro]

KKKKK, the hell did this made me laugh?!

[pale cedar]

The owl is just an extension of himself

[fast dew]

He looks like a snowy owl whole Daklo or whatever the racist guy was called looks like a horned owl

[swift gyro]

i mean, you said cephalons are majority digitized forms of life. he can control the space ship? if yes, then i think controling that body wouldnt be hard. unless his ´´vision´´ or idk what he see from his pov is only inside the ship, then it wouldnt be very usefull.

[silk atlas]

You also not considering that he doesnt want one, regardless of the feasibility

[swift gyro]

i asking if that would be possible inside the universe. if the DE wants to make ordis destroy the ship then let it. just curious about this ideia.

[silk atlas]

We havent seen Cephalons take over anything more than the garbage bin bots so we dunno

[sweet wadi]

Given their experience with synthetic beings, maybe the orokin made it so that cephalons can’t inhabit a humanoid body?

Cephalon behavior is dictated by precepts and programming, they could be programmed to not fit into anything that could make them dangerous

[swift gyro]

idk if they really did that. maybe they though just being a mix of human consience and codes was bad enough. hope they didnt do that. imagine an ´´warframe´´ of ordis in a robotic body and commanding the ship to attack by the skies.

[swift gyro]

also, why do we have ordis? or who did he ended up helping us in the ship or whatever?

[sweet wadi]

Come on, it’s Orokin. Nothing is ‘bad enough’.

[fast dew]

I mean

[hexed cape]

Cephalons are humans technically

[swift gyro]

true, the least bad thing they do is destroy worlds daily

[swift gyro]

they Were once humans.

[sweet wadi]

Humans that can be reprogrammed

[hexed cape]

They where builders and now all they create is war

[fast dew]

Humans absolutely can

[pale cedar]

His precept was coded that way

[hexed cape]

My bad miss type

[hexed cape]

Yeah

[fast dew]

That's literally what trauma does :) rewrites brain neural pathways or whatever

[sweet wadi]

A cephalon is a snapshot of a human mind made digital, then picked apart and pieced together as its creator saw fit.

[hexed cape]

Yeah your not wrong

[swift gyro]

but, how did we ended up with the space ship that had him inside of it? did lotus just stealed an space ship and thats it?

[sweet wadi]

Presumably all Tenno ships had one

[pale cedar]

We got in the landing craft that was connected to Ordis

[swift gyro]

but who made the ships then? orokins?

[pale cedar]

Yes

And the Cephalons

[hexed cape]

Well we got in the back up one because in the starting quest the first one blows up and Ordis I think can connect to any of them

[sweet wadi]

Yes and no. Trauma changes things, but the change is different depending on the individual. That’s why continuity can take time. Some minds are more resilient to trauma, or process it differently. A cephalon seems to be editable like computer code.

[pale cedar]

IIRC it’s said Ordis was our original one so we got lucky

[swift gyro]

dang, orokins erased cephalons bodies, turned into codes and made them build the places they would be stuck (some cephalons atleast). also i google it and saw the ordis was already in the ship, acting like an brain or ´´AI´´, is that correct?

[pale cedar]

Ordis is the ship

[swift gyro]

that makes more sense, thx

[hexed cape]

Dude he’s technically not the og one the because we got the old peace but he was actually in there once you talk to adis margelus is talking and you can see what definitely supposed to be Ordis

[pale cedar]

He’s our OG one I’m not saying he’s the first ever or anything

[swift gyro]

also, what exactly a people must do to irritate orokins to make them turn that people into an cephalon?

[hexed cape]

Yeah he’s the goat I was so surprised when I saw him for the first time

[pale cedar]

Ordan murdered Orokin at his ceremony

[opaque zenith]

Look at kuva (Naberus lore)

[swift gyro]

dang, ordis had that aura already? who was it or why?

[sweet wadi]

Cephalons also cease to ‘develop’ like human minds, with some exceptions. A ‘healthy’ cephalon will never change personality or behavior. Ordis is ‘damaged’, his ability to develop and mature is a result of Ordan bleeding through the cracks.

[pale cedar]

Who was Ordan or who was the Orokin?

[hexed cape]

Operator cosmic background is a riot cdyheehatunf

[swift gyro]

who was the oroking that ordis killed?

[sweet wadi]

Like the zariman cephalon is still cheerfully chattering on about nothing, for example, but she occasionally glitches

[opaque zenith]

Also just questioning the safety of the Zariman jump

[pale cedar]

Don’t think it’s stated we just know they body swapped making his kill pointless

[silk atlas]

We dunno

[hexed cape]

Nah it’s fine it’s only plugging a hole between dimensions or something

[sweet wadi]

None of them ‘died’, they body hopped

[swift gyro]

body swapped who with who exactly? the orokins saved the orokin (who ordis was trying to kill) by transfering to another body?

[pale cedar]

A random Yuvan

Or something

[hexed cape]

Who also hates balles