lore-discussion

[pine orchid]

idk it's like the idea/theory that gods were made by their believers, and with Conceptual Embodiment it's sounding quite plausible it could happen

Roathe even calls it out with the case of Wally so.... maybe?

[brittle siren]

Yeah but Lua/Sol does not appear even though tons of ppl worship them

Funny a lot of universe make ppl worship the moon while in actuality the Sun is the thing that give the moon it's light

[pine orchid]

that's why I said it could be that void stuff is necessary
Sol and Lua came before the Orokin, before void stuff ever got involved and modern day no one rlly believes in Sol and Lua anymore (iirc from Drifter KIM messages with Hex)

[brittle siren]

Void is really unpredictable, so even if you have the void on your side, it may or may not do what you want

[pine orchid]

Wally could've been manifested the moment Albrecht went into the void (or was this known for certain? did Albrecht believe this?)
Rell was Tenno and the one holding Wally back and he did... something, so he also has ties to void

[pine orchid]

never said it had to be intentional or that they wanted it to begin with
Albrecht certainly didn't XD

[pine orchid]

he did something to tie himself to Harrow*

[brittle siren]

It also interesting that not all void-made beings are as strong as Wally

[pine orchid]

it could be because he was the first, when no one had any expectations of the void
so Albrecht's initial encounter with it left him fearing/believing the worst and manifested smth like Wally

[brittle siren]

Do you think the void is responsible for the creation of the universe?

Because up until now, seemingly the void could do anything

[pine orchid]

I personally have a theory the void is what came before the universe

[brittle siren]

Yeah that what I meant

[pine orchid]

like it's everything before the big bang basically

[brave viper]

Idk if I misinterpreted but he's rotting away bc he knows he has nothing better to do and it's pointless for him to exert himself. There's nothing "wrong" with him or his age, he's just trapped and knows he can't ever escape

Low-key it explains why narmer never freed him, in fact, they took over monitoring him

They couldn't tell whether he would cooperate with them, or potentially subsume them and somehow abandon/fail their plans for true victory

[pine orchid]

since we have ||Adis' light now, do you think we could cast and cry Hunhow better? Xd||

[brave viper]

Hunhow retcon "I'm only being nice to you because I remember tau" : 😢

[brittle siren]

He nice because he has nothing left

Beside his daughter ofc

Also DE pls lock the Jade Shadow after the Octavia one, because whoever play Octavia after Jade would be confuse af

[brave viper]

Lol

[fast dew]

Wally isn't a god, conceptual embodiment makes him not one

We aren't even sure if it was conceptual embodiment

[pine orchid]

god-like, is that a better way to put it? I was drawing comparison to how some fantasy stories have a god's power draw from their believers (like in d&d? some sort of ttrpg I cant remember the name of where you can become demigod and eventually true god as you accrue believers)

[sick nebula]

Huh, I just noticed that the Amalgam Alkonost turns faces red, just like what happened to the Dactolyst in the Quest.

Something about injecting "neuro-carnivorous memes"

[pine orchid]

I could believe if it was a sort of Conceptual Embodiment, if I understand it that very strong emotions and belief and maybe fear can cause funky stuff to happen with the void
like Eldritch beings except made real by the void juice

and Wally's basically like a Cthulhu made real or smth

[strange plinth]

the sentients fr have the "if evil turn red" code

[hollow trench]

the red ring of death

[hollow trench]

It would check out there's a quote about the vast untime

[pine orchid]

yeah that's basically what fueled by thoughts XD

and then if the void is what exists outside of "time" and space, and "time" being its own dimension, it makes sense that through the void you can both travel to vast distances and also in time right? :p

[modest stream]

well that is... colorful

[pine orchid]

mmm I dont speak french but... smth abt the devil and imbecile? 😂

[modest stream]

"This devil is an imbecile who thinks he's above all reproach! I'd rather drink a can of wood varnish than spend another minute listening to him preen like a cat licking its fur!"

[pine orchid]

lmaoooo

I'm imagining Marie angrily typing this all out while Loid is like 🧍‍♂️ next to her 😂

[strange plinth]

alternatively, imagine roathe standing a couple paces behind her, waiting his turn

[modest stream]

I'm loving the Devil's Triad so far because I don't have Lyon unlocked yet and its just Marie going OFF on Eme- Roathe and Roathe just trauma dumping in Voice messages

[pine orchid]

"Are you done yet?"
"[in french] SHUT UP DEVIL"

[modest stream]

god I love 1999 I can't wait for the next batch to drop

1999 is a great other-side to the Operator's shenanigans

[pine orchid]

the meme continues, Drifter is out here making friends (and making out) while our Operator is having war flashbacks XD

[modest stream]

Operator about to face the consequences of literally EVERYTHING in the next major update and at the same time Drifter is probably gonna be kicking it with a new Proto-Frame batch in the mall

[fast dew]

No but this exactly happens with roathe cept Loid is looming over him

Not even joking

[modest stream]

Operator: "Tau is awful, everything sucks, the entire system could be on fire and it'd be no different from how it is now"

Drifter: "Protea's Protoframe is such a cool person! we just grabbed drinks at the bar in the mall that Qorvex helped repair this place is AWESOME."

Operator: "Screw you man."

[fast dew]

Loid does this on... i think Roathe's first chat?

[pine orchid]

I didn't remember that, or forgot, I think I was being pressured into hopping on a mission while reading Imma look again lmao

[modest stream]

maybe?

[fast dew]

Nah, it would've been his second one then, regardless, Roathe gets loomed over by "the butler"

[modest stream]

I hope by the end of 2026 the mall is full of like 6 different protoframe batches

just an absolute gaggle of goons literally everyhere

[strange plinth]

here

[modest stream]

lmao

[fast dew]

Loid looming over Roathe is so funny lol

Like how would he do it

Looming over the shoulder or like, standing awkwardly close

[pine orchid]

ah I may not have gotten it yet either we had like what 3 days? today being the 4th? 😂

[fast dew]

It does seem to be random

[pine orchid]

feels like this option might be it, Loid is a butler and Roathe is still Orokin

[fast dew]

Loid held no respect for the orokin lol
– he and Albrecht went out of their way to offend them

Roathe isn't any better

[dire mountain]

Idk id also be wary and watch if someone was on my partner's important lab computer to message someone

Especially if that guy is Roathe

[pine orchid]

Loid doesn't seem like he'd want to be too close to Roathe, so maybe hovering but not like literally right behind him in my head

and like doubly so if he hates all Orokin except his lover, probably? or maybe that's just my tism senses

[fast dew]

Roathe goes to lean back and sees Loid glaring at him right behind him

Forever enforcing that loid is strong as shit and will mess Roathe up

[fast dew]

Even Albrecht wasn't the most orokin of orokin. He couldn't even be identified as one outside maybe the voice

[pine orchid]

That would be fun, let grandpa tussle 😂

[fast dew]

Yk how they call Loid "the sleeper"? Its cus he has a sleeper build kekw

[pine orchid]

he used to be blue though, idk when he got this modern baseball cap body

[dire mountain]

Yeah Albrecht was definitely an outlier among the Orokin. He was also considered an outcast until he actually found a use for the Void after he witnessed the Horrors

[fast dew]

Its likely the same one as the void incident one, just turned pale and lost a lot of weight

His voice stays the same, which idk if that's something that stays with continuity, but it shouldn't unless they're like

Ripping out vocal chords

[pine orchid]

think he regretted his blue like we'd regret a tattoo?

[fast dew]

And entire mouths

Our voices are determined by a lot.

[fast dew]

Nah, he just needed to fit into 1999

[dire mountain]

He also has a library.. which is definitely not something a regular orokin would have

[pine orchid]

they could engineer their bodies to look however they want, so maybe smth similar there?

[dire mountain]

"The Orokin found conventional books offensive. Primitive. They clung to their precious Ayatans and sneered at our grand libraries. [chuckles] Oh, how we loved to offend the Orokin, Albrecht and I. And how secure our primitive libraries proved while their Towers burned."

[fast dew]

Though, i do see it as him letting go of that identity and the culture orokin people had

[dire mountain]

Orokin doesnt even sound real to me anymore

[narrow pendant]

HOOOOOLD ON they might be onto something

[strange plinth]

the radiation was found under one of the eggs, that isn't xenoflora

[fast dew]

I don't think we as the operator will kill Albrecht ngl

[dire mountain]

No??? The radiation was under one of the Zariman Ova (World Seeders)

[narrow pendant]

that yes but the potential of binding wally is dope

[strange plinth]

maybe? but its still based off of something that isn't true

[fast dew]

Albrecht is definitely gonna die but I don't think we will do it

[strange plinth]

yes, the nefarious tenno trapping radiation was mentioned for a reason, but i'm not sure if its foreshadowing a problem or a solution

[fast dew]

Though, I'm having the most horrible feeling they're preparing to do so.

[pine orchid]

maybe both? a double edged sword?

[strange plinth]

possibly

[pine orchid]

I think it's fine to not discount the xenoflora as having at least part of that radiation just yet, like a plant sucking up dye from the water kinda thing

[fast dew]

||reconnecting Loid to the Family feels like.. such a bad thing. Good for loid and all, but i sense they're doing it so Loid has someone else he can "lean" on once he loses Albrecht. The cavia wouldn't care, but Euleria certainly would.||

[dire mountain]

||Tagfer would care that he didnt get to do it himself||

[strange plinth]

maybe?
the other thing is that the xenoflora is dead, though
and idk if we'd have a way to bring it back

[narrow pendant]

did we activate all world seeders in the tau system?

[pine orchid]

my partner did point out to me that there were other spots not super close to the ova, like the one we charge up adis at

so maybe there's hope some of it survived

[pine orchid]

||they do also want us to complete the Entrati storyline before doing it so I can see the merit in this||

[dire mountain]

Maybe in some secluded cave that still has a survivable atmosphere for it

But like... unlikely

[fast dew]

Albrecht is prepared to die. "Paying for his mistakes with his blood" isn't something a man who expects himself to live, says

[pine orchid]

maybe... that blue altar thing is also very prominent in the map even as you play Perita Rebellion so maybe it might have some importance?

[strange plinth]

||that's. an interesting point. two birds with one stone||

[sick nebula]

I have a lore question:

How does Scaldra survive even a month (never mind a whole year) of fighting a Tenno and ten Protoframes, two of which (Volt and Saryn) specialize in nuking large groups?

[dire mountain]

Because the thing is that the world seeders were creating an atmosphere suitable for humans. That atmosphere is deadly to the xenoflora. That's why theyre encased in glass in Tauron Academy

[strange plinth]

tbf, the protos are inexperienced and unmodded. they probably can't nuke super well
they also get exhausted, so they can't keep it up day after day
mentally/emotionally if not physically as well

[fast dew]

||i think they're gonna stab us (me) and let Albrecht n Loid reunite and just. Mucking kills Albrecht right in front of loid. But like. He dies while he kills wally, yk?||

Loid gets one kiss before Albrecht just dies, is what i think will happen

Its the most unpleasant feeling

[sick nebula]

Depending on your KIM outcomes:

Albrecht shows up and ||Roathe kills his family|| right in front of him.

||Loid is probably included in that||

... or at least that's the plan in that outcome.

[frosty latch]

What happened to margulis eyes?

[sick nebula]

You happened to them

[fast dew]

I doubt ||DE will do this ngl. They won't kill a whole syndicate, that would cause so many issues. + i have the strangest feeling that Roathe would just get eaten by the infestation for it lol||

[strange plinth]

burned out by a tenno accidentally
top contenders are us or rell

[dire mountain]

I cant post that gif 😭

[frosty latch]

Why?

[dire mountain]

... accident??

[frosty latch]

How?

[strange plinth]

void powers not fully controlled

[pine orchid]

what if it's us and that's why Ballas has such big beef with us to the point of framing us for treason?

[frosty latch]

Oh , ok...when?

[pine orchid]

Emotions big + void powers + not fully matured eq = splosion Xd

[strange plinth]

could be
though i do like the thought that he has beef with one random tenno

[fast dew]

Right after Margulis pulls us out of the zariman

[fast dew]

Max hater energy

[strange plinth]

soon after we're taken from the zariman, when she's attempting to help us with the trauma

[frosty latch]

Okay, thanks

[pine orchid]

tbf it's Ballas he might not even care which Tenno he frames and it just happens to be us because we're the only Tenno in Tauron school at the time apparently lmao

[brittle siren]

So why the egg had Zariman structure inside it?

The one that kill all flower

[strange plinth]

was a zariman

[brittle siren]

So one of Zariman was actually successfully arrive at Tau (after the first one)?

[strange plinth]

some of the five series were, seemingly

[brittle siren]

I see

[strange plinth]

the one we enter is the five-nine

[brittle siren]

Zariman remix go hard

[brittle siren]

I wonder what is the meaning with their numbering.

Our Zariman is 10-0

This one 5-9

[strange plinth]

Zariman <model>-<unit> prolly

[pine orchid]

sounds reasonable

kinda like planes, in a way

[brittle siren]

Stupid question, what do those 2 mean? I need example

[strange plinth]

model is the purpose, i guess
the fives were the world-seeders/terraformers
the ten was a full colony ship
the unit is just how many there have been

[brittle siren]

Strange that 10-0 is the first, but not number 1, it's number 0

[pine orchid]

I wish we could replay the missions, I forgot if they mentioned smth about why the world seeders are important aside from tampering with them kills the flowers
is it that activating them is what kills the flowers? the one at the end did start to self destruct but then also killed the flowers

0 is commonly used as first index in stuff like software iterations, in programming arrays start with 0 too

[strange plinth]

we were told that it was a self destruct, but it was an activation sequence
got duped by ballas

[pine orchid]

yeah, but the thing also started exploding, so they rigged it to activate and then explode shortly after or smth(?)

[brittle siren]

From the Tau 2026 teaser, no it not explode at all

Or maybe just explode a bit inside, not destroying anything nearby

Man Adis death still haunted me

[pine orchid]

I'm talking about in our fight with Caliban Prime at the end of Old Peace, it was definitely a lot of fire inside that's what I'm referring to
but I can accept that maybe it's just a bit of contained explosions

[brittle siren]

Yeah but that green Aya stops the self destruct sequence and begin it original purpose

So technically, Ballas is telling half of the truth

Also, does Ballas ever lie? He only speak truth but most of it he hide the most important detail

[pine orchid]

I thought they only found out the duplicity once they were outside and saw the flowers were dead, but that's why I wanted to play it again so I can see
(and maybe experience the walk to Uriel properly, I got that janky fast run-walk thing when I played)

[brittle siren]

Usually new quest take some update to be able to replayable

[strange plinth]

there are some red flashing lights but i don't see fire during this section

[swift sentinel]

World Seeder implies their purpose. They're terraformers, they kill the flowers because they're native to Perita, which is toxic to Sol life.

[pine orchid]

I was working on the thought that if 10-0 was the first manned Zariman, then suppose the previous Zariman were like unmanned drones they sent ahead to prepare the arrival of the Orokin with like breathable air and stuff

[brittle siren]

Hence the mask on our OP

[pine orchid]

yes, I got confused because the naming World Seeder while also being surrounded by flowers made me think it's nurseries for the flowers, as in they're seeding the flowers
bt I do also remember the golden curse long ago precepting thing and figured it was something inside or underneath the egg that they're referring to

[strange plinth]

more that they release breathable air that is toxic to the xenoflora, than it just killing the xenoflora on purpose

[brittle siren]

Also what was the first series Zariman do

[swift sentinel]

and why we and Valdur aren't wearing our gear after, the atmosphere is already changed anough for us to breath.

[brittle siren]

Could anyone list all of the series and their purpose for me?

[strange plinth]

yea, the world-seeder just activates, no explosions or anything

[pine orchid]

Itzam was also freaking out about the Seeders in relation to flower nurseries, but I'm already not the best at listening at times with my ADHD, so I depend on stuff like subtitles and convo logs a lot 😅

[strange plinth]

i think we only know about 5 and 10

[pine orchid]

I remembered it as fire... but I could be mistaken since I was focused on trying to be able to see Galastra between everything

is there a reason DE doesn't let us immediately replay new content updates?

[swift sentinel]

Drifter says in KIM that the Orokin "experimented a LOT" with the Zariman Project

[strange plinth]

probably more of a technical limitation than anything
it took a while to be able to replay them at all

[brittle siren]

I would assume the first one is used to navigate

Like mapping and stuff

[strange plinth]

drifter says that 1 through 9 were unmanned drones, but that's the only other detail i can think of

[brittle siren]

Also, we are not even on Tau yet (the planet)

We never saw the main planet either

The moon is so big lmao

[strange plinth]

Eleanor: "If yours was the Zariman Ten-Zero, what happened to Zarimans One through Nine?"
Drifter: "Unmanned drones, from what I remember.
Or Cephalon-piloted terraforming pods. They experimented a LOT.
'The Project', they called it."

[brittle siren]

Cephalon sound much more sense

I mean our Zariman has 1 as a teacher. Idk if there are other Cephalon board with her

[strange plinth]

Quinn could swipe a finger on a little tablet and create a new cephalon
so, Melica is probably not the only one
just the last one still.. mostly functional
-# Cavalero: "I had my orders. YOUR orders. You may not have been Orokin, you pious bastard, but you were damn close. Liaison to the Expeditionary Command! Bearer of the Crystal Index!"
-# Quinn: "My tablet. A swipe of my finger across a name... and the ship gained a new Cephalon."
-# holdfasts rank 3 scene

[brittle siren]

Lmao

That sound so f up

A human btw

Also I was wondering, is there a mayor system among the normal human

Or leader of a village or sth

During the Orokin era I mean

[swift sentinel]

Roathe mentions that hierarchy was everything to Orokin society, so they probably had positions very clearly laid out all the way from Emperor to peasant.

[strange plinth]

grendel leverian describes some regular people in Riddha
though they were still living under Karishh

"Europa's frozen, famine-struck city of Riddha."

[brittle siren]

Ostron also exist during Orokin time too

The closet to human life during Orokin time is from Parvos backstory

And Grandmother Blueva

[astral mulch]

Off topic from the current convo, but in The Sacrifice, Ballas says to ||Umbra|| “You thought you could out-play me? I've had lifetimes to plan my defection. You spied on me, intercepted my communications. But I saw your move long before you took it. And so... we come to the consequences..." does this mean during Old Peace, ||Umbra|| was already actively defecting against Ballas?

[strange plinth]

unlikely
ballas is only really plotting to betray the orokin after margulis dies, which happens after the old peace
so no communications to intercept

[astral mulch]

Ok ok yeah that’s why I was wondering, because I know there was multiple ‘turning points’ throughout the entire war, so I wasn’t sure if this conversation took place soon after Old Peace, or closer to the end of the war

Also at what point did Lotus replace Margulis, because wasn’t she executed for putting us to sleep and hiding us after Old Peace?

I mean not the only reason obviously, but the deciding factor basically

[brittle siren]

Prob sometime later Margulis death and after Umbra become warframe

[hollow siren]

Natah was born relatively late into the War

she's funnily enough the youngest of the main squad members

[strange plinth]

i'd guess its not too long before the Erra cutscene?

[brittle siren]

Before, Praghasa have to help Hunhow gave birth to both of her children then she die while go to the Origin system

[astral mulch]

Ok so it would have to be closer to a point where Ballas was sort of in power I assume, because would the Orokin let a sentient mask as someone they executed?

[hollow siren]

Hunhow and Erra's final assault on Lua was one of the last events in the Old War

[brittle siren]

He put her deep inside Lua so maybe no one knows

[hollow siren]

It's unclear if anyone but Ballas knew

[astral mulch]

Yeah and shortly after that is when they ‘died’ and hid away

Ahhhh ok

I just feel the Orokin wouldn’t have liked Margulis essentially coming back

[brittle siren]

But we know that she was imprisoned in Lua, and heard Wally voices

[strange plinth]

Ballas's plan was fairly separate from the Seven
mostly because he was more focused on betraying the orokin as well
but Natah would hide in lua, helping the tenno to "defeat" the sentients, then she would turn the tenno on the orokin, and finally kill the tenno
she just failed on the last step, either due to ballas's reprogramming (to make her more like margulis) or her own will

[astral mulch]

Ok that clears up a bit Tysm

[hollow siren]

yeah it's still vague on how much of her becoming The Lotus was caused by her direct will and how much was Ballas' reprogramming

tho it seems that final step was mainly or even fully her own

[brittle siren]

How he put Margulis memory into Natah is unclear

[astral mulch]

Most likely a similar process to how they take away memories, like from Cephalons

I wonder if Ordan was already Ordis in Old Peace

He might’ve been, I haven’t been able to see a lot of his lore

[hollow siren]

Considering we know Cores can be reprogrammed/overridden, and that Ballas was involved in the Sentients' initial creation

[brittle siren]

Take memory away is easy but injecting it into someone is not

[brittle siren]

I mean how exactly he made her know what Margulis knew and the way of thinking too

[hollow siren]

it's not sure when in the timeline his massacre happened, or how much time if any passed between his Glassing and Ballas making him the steward watchman if the Tenno

[brittle siren]

She even confused that if she is Margulis

[hollow siren]

oh yeah it's a monumental task regardless

[brittle siren]

Theory: Daklo is Ordan but change his name later on because it reminded of his old name

[astral mulch]

I wonder what Kullervo was doing during Old Peace as well

[hollow siren]

Hate Ballas all you want you cannot deny he did an enormous feat in Sentient engineering

[brittle siren]

Trapped in the void or still spread ragebait

[strange plinth]

doesn't ballas call ordis.. ordis

[hollow siren]

no, "Ordis" was given to Ordan by Ballas

[astral mulch]

Nah he wasn’t trapped in the void until after Naga Drums

[astral mulch]

Probably ragebait xD

[brittle siren]

Can I ask where is this from

[strange plinth]

on the run, probably
don't remember his crimes exactly to say which one he'd be in the process of

[hollow siren]

The cephalon fragments?

They involve Ballas telling Ordis who he now is as a Cephalon

[hollow siren]

Being put into the Squidward Torture Machine

[astral mulch]

I love the Kullervo spent a majority of the war helping to push the warframes towards the night of Naga, one of my favorite pieces of lore knowing he was defecting even before the Tenno

[strange plinth]

"I see my reflection, brutal and ugly. It cracks, shatters. The fragments loose in the frame, pieces tumbling away into black void. Gone but not lost. Ballas says, 'You are Cephalon Ordis.' My hating, murderous shards tremble and plummet. I feel cool and bright and happy."

[brittle siren]

I think during Old Peace, only a select few Tenno were chosen to fight as a Warframe.

Only after Margulis' death do every Tenno joins in

[brittle siren]

Oh I may have missed it

[brittle siren]

Ty for the info

[astral mulch]

I agree, and for the most part it seems a majority of Tenno were killed by the anarchs

[strange plinth]

probably Treason 1 or Espionage, leaning towards Espionage
Flight From Just Custody is pre-tenno, Treason 2 is the naga drums

[brittle siren]

How the Orokin judge him the Naga Drums though

I mean all of them are dying

[strange plinth]

his crimes are recorded in duviri
its moreso his own guilt judging him, well, guilty than an actual orokin
though the Warden is similar to Ballas

[hollow siren]

Warden is a reflection of Ballas from Kullervo's mind

[astral mulch]

I think it’s espionage and treason

Looking at it, he began attacking Orokin facilities and such quoted “Immediately after” the Tennos return from the Zariman jump

actually while he was doing that, we were still ‘taming’ the warframes so probably espionage by Old Peace

Since we’re already integrated into war by that point

[strange plinth]

makes sense
would be cool if he could show up in the memories every now and then
tho his appearance would be different. not as void warped

[astral mulch]

Yeah agreed, I can’t wait to see his prime im so excited about how he looked prior, him and dagath because both of them used to be Dax

I know it’s not mentioned anywhere specific that Kullervo was a Dax, atleast I don’t think, but by his design and abilities I think it’s heavily implied

Also I’m almost 100% certain Hildryn is the reason Kullervo was cast into the void, considering she was Ballas’s personal bodyguard

[frail harness]

I have a lore question

Where do Warframes get their abilities from? Like, i know it's the void, conceptual embodiment and all that, but what part of the Infestation process gives Warframes their powers? Do warframes only have their actual power powers when a Tenno operates them and uses their void powers on them?

If so, how do Protoframes have powers?

[hollow siren]

No clear answer to that, and seems to vary from frame to frame even between ones of the same type

[strange plinth]

designed, i believe

[pale cedar]

They've had powers since they were created see Rhino Prime Codex

Orokin controlled the process

[stiff fable]

The designer creates a concept and designs a Warframe in a way that the concept comes to life

[hollow siren]

For example the exalted blade itself is pure Void energy, but the actual dashing in slash dash is just Excalibur's doing

[frail harness]

One could feasibly conclude that Rhino's powerset is all things achieveable without conceptual embodiment though

harder for frames like Hydroid that just summon tentacles from nowhere

[hollow siren]

yeah some Abilities are pretty much just physical actions

[stiff fable]

it's similar to how operator amps channel void energy

[frail harness]

We are in lore chat whats the point of being snarky about lore questions

[astral mulch]

Really good question actually, and I never really wondered this until Marie, because she can float

[stiff fable]

that... is the in-universe explanation, fam

[frail harness]

My bad i misread your message LOL

[stiff fable]

bruh

[frail harness]

I am too used to snarky "because that makes good gameplay" answers

[hollow siren]

Well there are also cases where they seem to just have injected someone and seen what happens

[strange plinth]

that's just part of the helminth batch

[frail harness]

Like, only special things get Conceptual Embodiment afaik, namely things in the Zariman, and Warframes are just made of Infestation, so how did the Orokin shove that conceptual embodiment into them

[hollow siren]

I still personally believe Limbo was an Archimedean who got injected as a test to see what would happen when a scholar was framed as opposed to a warrior, hence why none of his abilities are really directly offensive/damaging

[astral mulch]

The warframes are powered by void energy, it's shown in Heart Of Deimos, when the heart gets damaged and your warframe can no longer use abilities

[stiff fable]

that's ALL Orokin tech, tbh

[astral mulch]

Yes, it is also connected to your operator, however Necramechs are also, powered by void energy

[stiff fable]

Not just the Heart

[astral mulch]

So warframes have their powers without us, we amp them

[frail harness]

I know all Orokin tech is void powered but i didnt think any of them had enough of a connection to the void to straight up embody concepts to life, we've only seen that happen in the void itself

[astral mulch]

Thats kind of my point though

The power of the void is extremely unknown, which I assume extends to the power it can give to other 'lifeforms' such as warframes and necramechs

Even Roathe has me questioning the void now, saying Wally is just a conceptual embodiment as well

[stiff fable]

Roathe is a strident anti-theist

[umbral merlin]

thats just his theory though

[hollow siren]

The only case where it kinda seems implied to be something akin to CE is Sevagoth where his lingering will and resolve to rescue others manifested the Shadow to captain the Tempestarii in his stead

[stiff fable]

Which he'll acknowledge if you call him on it

[pine orchid]

iirc it’s like the heart is a pump siphoning that void juice and flooding the origin system with it? and that’s why void based tech works including our warframes

[pale cedar]

That's not just his theory

[astral mulch]

But it's a really good one is what i'm saying, when we have no understanding of the void, or The Indifference

[frail harness]

I guess it is possible that since the Helminth Strain itself is a sentient hivemind, then the Helminth makes the concepts and practically bakes them into the Warframes on a physical and material level, and then the void connection embodies those, and since no other Orokin devices have the complexity and organic structure that the Helminth does, they get more void power like conceptual embodiment that other machines dont

[stiff fable]

I mean, we know that the Murmur is made from dead universes

[pale cedar]

Game has said Wally is CE since 2023

[stiff fable]

Which is far beyond the scope of any conceptual embodiment we've seen

[astral mulch]

Plenty of other characters pose the question on us whether Wally is what we think he is or not

It's a being far beyond our understanding, and considered to just be the void itself

[frail harness]

I think people are a little close-minded about wally, because the Wally you see and hear is likely conceptual embodiment but i personally think he acts on a more prehistoric will that predates concepts to embody

[stiff fable]

I think Albrecht gave Wally a face

But no more

[frail harness]

Me too definetly

[astral mulch]

I entirely agree, and that's amped by his smile

[pine orchid]

did a halfbaked job at that though

[frail harness]

I think Wally as a persona was made via CE but the will of the being is just the void itself

[astral mulch]

Wally has almost the exact same smile as entrati

[umbral merlin]

which part? i dont recall

[pine orchid]

he doesn’t even finish rendering the whole face! Xd

[strange plinth]

entrati doesn't smile

[stiff fable]

anyway, Warframes have the abilities they have because they're designed to have specific powers

[frail harness]

Like that one Entrati portrait in the 21st floor of descendia.

[astral mulch]

But if he did, it'd look like Wally's

[pale cedar]

Sythel: "The first scholar looked into the Void and he feared it. And his fear took shape. Do you understand? That's how all this started."

[frail harness]

https://fixupx.com/TheDsIEGE/status/1999110312507687239?s=20

sIEGE (@TheDsIEGE)

Well, now that is a version of entrati’s portrait I haven’t seen before…

**💬 16 🔁 85 ❤️ 1.9K 👁️ 24.0K **

▶ Play video

FixupX · Dec 11, 2025, 1:33 PM

[stiff fable]

In-universe those applications are a lot more flexible than the four powers we get as players

[strange plinth]

see the leverians for examples

[stiff fable]

Like, Mag can crush rooms into tin cans, but Aoi can freely shape ferrous metal into liquid

[pine orchid]

to me Wally’s motivation seems to mostly be embodying entropy, aka wanting and accelerating heat death of the universe or smth
he reeeaally hates when we mix his elements and cause changes Xd

[astral mulch]

Like yes, this is wally as albrecht, but the statue of wally looks almost identical to him

[pale cedar]

Albrecht during 1999 actually says he created Wally

[umbral merlin]

i see, thanks

[stiff fable]

he would

[frail harness]

One day (2034) we'll get Warframe Incarnons that allow us to swap out each ability for one alternative ability that fits their lore, trust

My dad is DE he told me so

[stiff fable]

hahaha

honestly that'd be pretty sick

[pale cedar]

Just CE it easy mode

[stiff fable]

and DE's talked about making Ember's World on Fire a free standing Helminth power soooo

[astral mulch]

The void was never supposed to be discovered by humans, it's one of those things in existence that exists for the reason of keeping space intact it seems

When Albrecht managed to break that, and physically step into the void I think it shattered all of that

[frail harness]

4 evolutions like regular incarnon genesis, each one has 2 choices, Base Ability or a New One. so you can mix and match new and old abilities

[astral mulch]

The void is clearly concious, and when Albrecht stepped into it, it discovered something entirely seperate to itself and got curious

[frail harness]

I dont think it was always conscious

[stiff fable]

It's worth remembering though that a lot of its experiments are less curiosity and more absolute malice

[frail harness]

I think it technically had a will but seeing Entrati taught it how to think, for lack of a better term

[astral mulch]

Yeah that

[stiff fable]

Like, seeing what happens when children are given weapons to combat murderously insane parents

[frail harness]

Well, the game touches on that briefly. What's the difference between curiosity and malice to something that doesnt really have emotions?

[astral mulch]

Like, when Albrecht stepped into the void and interacted with it, is when it developed that full sense of thought and curiousity, because it had a human full of thought and curiousity standing inside of it

[frail harness]

Like we know Wally mimics emotions, he learned what it means to be human by Albrecht, but he isnt human

[stiff fable]

that's just it though, if emotion means nothing to it then positive emotion wouldn't drive it off

[astral mulch]

I think that's also extremely reflecting of Albrecht

[frail harness]

Like someone in one of the Kim chats said (i forgot), it's like Wally is a kid banging toys together

[stiff fable]

and yet Loid simply hearing Albrecht's final apology is enough to prevent the destruction of the Sanctum

[astral mulch]

Albrecht is manipulative and a narcissist, it's clear he himself doesn't know much of a line between curiousity and malice, hence the Cavia

[frail harness]

I dont think friendship is a fault to wally because he hates friendship i think it's a fault to him because he doesnt understand it

[stiff fable]

Oh no, that was deliberate

He was trying to weaponize the Cavia against the Indifference

[astral mulch]

Albrecht also isn't big on friendship

[frail harness]

And given that the Human avatar that is "Wally" was inspired by Albrecht, not knowing something isnt exactly high on the christmas wishlist

[stiff fable]

the fact that they didn't die was a surprise

[astral mulch]

It's still malicious imo, considering he was weaponizing those poor animals over anything else

[frail harness]

To play with the "Wally is like a toddler banging toys together to see what happens" metaphor, you mixing elements and making friends and stuff is like someone else playing with the kid's toys, doing their own thing with them. Suddenly you've taken control from a being that has only ever known control.

It was made from Albrecht, it's one blueprint on life is a man that sought to control literally every variable he could

[stiff fable]

Right but again, if that was the case he'd be weak to any and all forms of intruding emotion

[astral mulch]

On top of that, toddlers tend to pick up their actions from whoever they're learning from, in this case the toddler's parent is Albrecht, which...well

[stiff fable]

Instead he's clearly exalted by negative emotions, and put off by positive emotions

[astral mulch]

again, I could say the same for albrecht

[frail harness]

I dont think negative emotions make him feel good necessarily, i think he just knows how to use them, because Albrecht did

[stiff fable]

Noooooo they do

[frail harness]

Albrecht no doubt preferred to make opposing forces feel bad moreso than make allies feel good

[stiff fable]

That's why the Murmur freaks out and rushes the Refractory during The Old Peace

[astral mulch]

Yes this is true, but I can also agree that Wally feeds on negative emotion

[astral mulch]

This, and when you're first in the Anatomica

[stiff fable]

They want to be there when you remember obliterating Tauron Academy

[astral mulch]

Wally grows more powerful as he is messing with Loid's emotions

[stiff fable]

yeah exactly

[astral mulch]

On top of that, the scene in 1999 when Wally is swapping between Rusalka and Loid to mess with Albrecht

Even more so

Old Peace, he only started talking to us when we were killing/angry

[frail harness]

We dont even have confirmation on why they were invading the Refractory. Me personally I'm in the camp that Wally doesnt want us to remember him manipulating us into using Uriel because the more we know he did it, the less able he becomes to do it again. Uriel has an idle anim where the murmur try to take him which further makes me think Wally is specifically interested in Uriel, and tricking us into using Uriel for his devices

Hence he sent the murmur to prevent Op from regaining those memories

[stiff fable]

Uriel isn't going to be plot relevant past this update

So that can't be it

[frail harness]

Thats a bit of a bold assumption lol

[stiff fable]

Not really

What Warframe has been?

[astral mulch]

I think he's pretty plot heavy already though, theres a ton of holes that can be filled with his frame

[frail harness]

And if Wally's Uriel plan failed with us regaining that memory then it would make sense that Uriel's relavence stops because Wally stops trying to use it

[astral mulch]

It's very clear he's why we're called Devils

[stiff fable]

Even Umbra has gotten a single one-liner

[pale cedar]

Might be relevant in an echoes update to this update

[stiff fable]

Unlikely

[frail harness]

I definetly think Uriel, and moreso what we do with Uriel, is why Wally wanted our memories of Perita and Tauron

[astral mulch]

I don't think anything else will relate to Uriel

[strange plinth]

pretty sure we were called devils before this

[hollow siren]

Main reason is that the Void is often called "Hell"

Uriel is just a neat parallel

[frail harness]

But now that we got those memories wally cant manipulate us with that anymore and Uriel stops being a plot-relavent threat

[stiff fable]

Yeah the association is already there, DE just saw a thing to run with

With the imagery of a devil rising to destroy a false heaven

[astral mulch]

Uriel I feel helped reinforce it though, considering he was a warframe, another Tenno had to have used it

[stiff fable]

no, incorrect

[astral mulch]

He was on his own?

[stiff fable]

All the Uriels on Tau were Roathe's legionaires

[frail harness]

I just think whatever the reason that it's dismissive to say for certain why the Murmur wanted to get to the Operator during their use of the Refractory, Uriel just makes the most sense to me personally

[strange plinth]

not really
the Uriels were Roathe's men, turned into Uriels as a devotion thing

[stiff fable]

There were thousands of them

No Operators involved

[hollow siren]

Before Transference was even established for Warframes in-universe Ballas called it "Golems possessed by Devil minds"

[astral mulch]

Ok thats what I was asking xD

[frail harness]

Imagining armies of Uriel frames brings a tear to the eye

[astral mulch]

Question, do we think part of why Margulis put us to sleep, is because right before we blow her doors down we go "Rap Tap Tap little piggy, you'll let me in!!" Because there were multiple times in the quest we were asked about 'the voices'

[stiff fable]

That's the reason she came to Tau, yes

[astral mulch]

which I think makes it very clear that, at this time Wally had more of a grasp on us

[stiff fable]

Well, one of them

[frail harness]

Wally is manipulating the Operator HARD with the Uriel segment, thats why i think our memories of that are what the murmur are after

[astral mulch]

She came because we were going schizo? 😭

[stiff fable]

Space Mom

[frail harness]

Then again chronologically idk if theres proof of Wally saying "rap tap tap" before that, so maybe he says that to mock our darkest moment, i dunno

[stiff fable]

There was

[frail harness]

Ahh okay, thats interesting

[stiff fable]

Rell mentions hearing the knocking

[astral mulch]

Wally says rap tap tap to mock his own knocking

[stiff fable]

So it wasn't an Operator thing

[frail harness]

I did say i didnt know

[hollow siren]

"I trust Itzam over any Orokin. Have him report to me directly."

after that Itzam asks us
"Your, ah, 'patron' has asked me to inquire about the voices?"

[strange plinth]

Wally's tapping on the glass of the classroom the first time we ever meet him
its just his thing

[stiff fable]

ooooh true

[astral mulch]

OHHH Is that what she said in the elevator?

[hollow siren]

Yes, to Daklo

[astral mulch]

I wasn't able to catch what she said, I was to mesmerized by the fact she was even there

Ok that makes so much sense omg

[stiff fable]

That's also the reason we know Margulis didn't write the message in the ayatan

[astral mulch]

So yeah it's definitely partially because we were on indifference timing

[hollow siren]

That is also how Itzam learnt Margulis figured out the seeders' self-destruct, which he foolishly told Ballas of

[stiff fable]

She was done with the Orokin at that point

[astral mulch]

Omfg I wish the quest was replayable

[prime mural]

Wait a second, I just chatted with roathe, I thought only the 7 and maybe the archimedians had access to continuitt via kuva, but roath also had access to it?

[hollow siren]

Kuva is not Transference. Continuity is something all Orokin had access to

That's what made them Orokin

[astral mulch]

Yes, that's reinforced in the scene where Ballas controls Umbra

[strange plinth]

all orokin used continuity
only a select few knew the rituals, but they all used it

[prime mural]

Autocorrect my bad

[hollow siren]

"Becoming" Orokin meant being given the Kuva

[stiff fable]

Yeah, Tuvul's day job was running the transferrence ceremonies

[astral mulch]

Yes this, the blue kuva is what made orokin what they were iirc

amongst other things

[pale cedar]

No

[hollow siren]

Blue Kuva is non-canon until said otherwise

[astral mulch]

Oh really?

[strange plinth]

the bluva was temporary kuva
and might not even exist

[pale cedar]

They just modified their skin

[hollow siren]

One mention in a naberus story, never mentioned since

[pale cedar]

Even we can do that

[astral mulch]

Omg you're right

[prime mural]

Wait. Is that what the beast of bones story was about? His commodation was to become orokin? And the reason they all survived his slaughter was the kuva?

[astral mulch]

I forgot it came from the naberus story

[pale cedar]

Refacia kits

[hollow siren]

yeah the blue skin, white eyes and long right arm were just the Orokin fashion trends

[hollow siren]

Yes

[strange plinth]

unless you count the tennocon mention of it
but ehhh

[astral mulch]

I like how we're learning about Niktoh now, I wonder if we'll get anything more on her past Roathe's mentionings, like we got with Tuvul

or no

[stiff fable]

we should, but then again maybe not

[astral mulch]

not tuvul, nihil

I keep mixing them up oml

[stiff fable]

Karishh hasn't gotten any lore

[pale cedar]

The closest mention to Bluva is the Orokin who got killed and was given a temporary shot not full body swapping and that's not a 100% confirmed thing

[stiff fable]

No no, we actually did get a bunch of Tuvul lore

He was the dude behind the Zariman

[astral mulch]

Yeah ik but I meant like a fight, like we got with Nihil

[stiff fable]

And ran the continuity ceremonies

[prime mural]

Add on, how do I follow non cinematic or quest description/in dialogue lore? Because apparently I am missing a ton and it feels like reading through dark souls descriptions and piecing it together.

Went from continuity to the executor to the order he created to APPARENTLY VORUNA SLAUGHTERED THEM ALL?

and I knew nothing about this

[stiff fable]

And he's the second known Executor to get merked by a Tenno

[hollow siren]

Voruna's Leverian

[stiff fable]

Voruna leverian is a wild ride

[astral mulch]

I know how you feel

[stiff fable]

Karishh got eaten by Grendel lol

[strange plinth]

the leverians give a bunch of background with a subtle 'here's what's currently going on'
and then it hits you with the full conflict all at once

[astral mulch]

I think we have enough on Karishh in the sense of Grendel's lore, there doesn't seem to have been much to him other than his greed and being one of the 7

I assume his lore if anything would just be similar to what we're getting from Niktoh, but less

[pale cedar]

We know he had like 12 stomachs

[astral mulch]

Which is more than we know about most Orokin

[strange plinth]

12 meals for 12 grafted exo sacs or whatever

[hollow siren]

I shudder to imagine what Ballas had twelve of

[strange plinth]

good ideas, ever

[pale cedar]

Stacks of ego

[stiff fable]

"Ways to ruin a Tenno's life"

[prime mural]

With each new discovery i get angrier and more confused. WHAT DO YOU MEAN IN GAME ABILITIES HAVE LORE IMPLICATIONS (Grendel eats enemy's and NOURISHES MALNOURISHED PEOPLE WITH IT)

[stiff fable]

here's a fun one

Energy pickups are a gameplay thing

[astral mulch]

dont even get me started xD

[strange plinth]

what's the insane shit that nova gets up to in her leverian? idr exactly

[stiff fable]

Lore Tenno are spamming abilities

[brittle siren]

is it weird that I like vore

[pale cedar]

Which of you gave Ballas the ability to fly?

[prime mural]

Tell me yours? What made you break?

[hollow siren]

I mean float your boat ig but why announce it here

[stiff fable]

Throws a dude into a reactor and ignites him as a fuel source

[brittle siren]

because someone mention Grendel

sorry for the discomfort

[stiff fable]

after the dude takes the ship hostage and commands her to do it to herself

[astral mulch]

I have a feeling Karishh was built like this

[strange plinth]

yeah fair enough

[strange plinth]

you'll never guess

[hollow siren]

Well we see his statue in Tauron and he looks like Vladimir Harkonnen

[pale cedar]

Isn't Karrish on one of the statues

[hollow siren]

yes

[astral mulch]

No way he has a statue

[pine orchid]

that was to Daklo??? I might have gone easier on him if I knew that qwq
I only just figured out she was there the moment the elevator doors closed so I missed it...

[astral mulch]

AHGAAHAHA NO WAY

[stiff fable]

dw, he's an owldis model

[astral mulch]

I WAS RIGHT TOO

[strange plinth]

the seven, in alphabetical order

[brittle siren]

I'm going to hold your hand when I say this.

[stiff fable]

So even blowing him up didn't actually kill him

[brittle siren]

Ballas be like: F you

[astral mulch]

NO NO NO I GOT THIS

[brittle siren]

also I need the source

[stiff fable]

all you did was wipe his memories of Orokin cruelty, and reset him back to guilt-free racist owl

[prime mural]

So like if "an orokin wasn't a race but rather the ruling class who got a genetic UPGRADE" then this technically means that unless you were the best doctor or scientist, almost every other orokin was an evil piece of shit because those are the types of people who do the heinous stuff that makes them famous enough to qualify and essentially become an ubermensch?

[stiff fable]

Kinda!

[astral mulch]

jeez niktoh is kinda....

[hollow siren]

I can never blame Roathe for what he did cause if I was in a master x servant toxic relationship with Nitokh I would lead wars if she asked me to too

[stiff fable]

Because I bet plenty of Orokin started out as people determined to change the system and improve people's lives

[strange plinth]

-# two in a row,,,

[stiff fable]

.......but after 5000 years that gets really boring

And the Orokin era lasted longer than that

[hollow siren]

I also like the gigachad next to Tuvul

[prime mural]

FUN FACT: the medal he has on his left side is THE ONE GIVEN TO THOSE WHO HELPED IN THE CZERNOBYL SEARCH EFFORTS.

[astral mulch]

I hope we get him as a skin

[hollow siren]

yeah they often bring up how the main issue of the Orokin was how fittingly indifferent they had grown after becoming effectively immortal

[astral mulch]

YESSS AND THATS WHY HES BLUE BECAUSE OF THE RADIATION IN CHERNOBYL AT THAT TIME EFFECTING PEOPLES SKIN

[brittle siren]

DE when someone said Wally is a god

[astral mulch]

I LOVE YOU

That roathe statement is what I was talking about too lmao

[stiff fable]

ah yes, because he's an expert in the matter

I also don't think Wally is a god, but Roathe is guessing like all of us are

[astral mulch]

he is the devil ;)

[pale cedar]

It's definitely the route DE are going at this point tbh

[astral mulch]

wally isn't a god, but an entity

[stiff fable]

Also my god I keep having to correct away from "Roache". I read the Witcher books over a decade ago, this needs to stop already

[hollow siren]

tbf all his soldiers becoming Uriel when framed as if cursed by Roathe's self-given title does seem to have something behind it

[brittle siren]

Let just say that he kinda like Moon Lord in Terraria

[prime mural]

I do not understand the meaning of this. Is conceptual embodiment meant to signify wally can be explained via science and hence he isn't a god?

Or is it about saying "we created him with our thoughts so yes he is powerful but exists only cause of us" similar to 40k chaos gods?

[brittle siren]

both

[stiff fable]

Mix of both but more the former

Roache isn't taking credit for Wally but trying to explain him away

Because if he's wrong then his entire identity shatters

[astral mulch]

Yes, but also in the sense that wally isn't a god, but an entity similar to one like Cthulu, or Hermaeus Mora from skyrim

labeled a 'god' only because it's beyond our understanding

[brittle siren]

tbh I would deem Wally like gods in Greek myth more than Allah, Buddha or Jesus per se

[prime mural]

Is there a good warframe lore explained that goes into the individual warframe and characters lore(4 example let's take natak who is just a mask guy i am sure there is some hidden lore that isn't directly stated). Cause I seem to notice that a ton of lore isn't in quests but also not in leverian

[pale cedar]

Sythel: "The first scholar looked into the Void and he feared it. And his fear took shape. Do you understand? That's how all this started."

[brittle siren]

someone made a vid about most warframe

[hollow siren]

tbh most individual Warframes have very little lore, if any, and the lore they do have is often told via unreliable narrators

[pale cedar]

Yareli has some of the most skill issue lore ever

[brittle siren]

https://youtu.be/b6grs9yodcw?list=PLhh01QKWSh7JcX4NRMzjwIqylUxiFp7Xn

https://youtu.be/30k__moYhiI?list=PLhh01QKWSh7JcX4NRMzjwIqylUxiFp7Xn

these 2 is cool vid to start

[pale cedar]

These videos are literally impossible to make till every frame has lore

[astral mulch]

Alright I love you all, it was fun chatting im going to watch somebody play Old Peace because we can't replay it yet </3

[brittle siren]

he said on first vid that some of them have no lore or barely any

[pale cedar]

Which means the video is stupid till every frame has lore

[stiff fable]

Garuda:

though actually, the Garuda lore might now be that the Deepmind preserved her blueprint for Biz to find

[brittle siren]

by your logic, none of "every warframe" vid is valid because DE keep making new one

chill lmao

not everything has to be perfect

[pale cedar]

It's just a bad vid to make because it leads to headcanons

[brittle siren]

and did he said it isn't headcanon/theories?

[pale cedar]

When a frame doesn't have lore people make their own to compensate

[brittle siren]

he stated a lot that some of the info is heavily speculated

[pale cedar]

Why make a speculative vid on the lore of every frame?

[brittle siren]

and why is it bad? I make asumption all the time, and if I was wrong, I learn from it. He never said his statement is true 100%

[pale cedar]

Because speculation leads to people believing it as fact

[brittle siren]

so the title has to be "I am speculative the lore of all warframe" would make you please?

[hollow siren]

When that happens even when it's announced to be speculative, the issue is moreso in those believers than the guy posting the video ngl

[pale cedar]

I'm not necessarily blaming him

[brittle siren]

wait is this One Piece author??

[hollow siren]

yes

[pale cedar]

Im just saying making speculation in a video called lore of every frame leads to people believing it so it's safer to not do it in the first place

[hollow siren]

and it's an actual opening quote from him answering a fan question

[pale cedar]

Warframe players don't pay attention to speculation as a word

[hollow siren]

And that's their problem. Competent creators shouldn't have to always account for the most incompetent consumers

[dark compass]

"there's a youtube video about it so it must be true"

[prime mural]

WE CAN'T????

[hybrid silo]

I spare racist ordis, but what happen if we kill him?

[stiff fable]

you either just tell him to burn or say that you don't buy his regretfulness when he was maximum racist

thrn you set the room on fore

[astral mulch]

We can’t :( not yet atleast

[brittle siren]

also, why when Lotus said "not yet" when our OP was being drag down, there is Wally voices too?

guys I got Excal Prime for free

[astral mulch]

Also I just noticed a detail in Old Peace that I noticed before but wanted to mention after seeing it again.

Early in the quest when Wally first chants after we kill the Dacolyst, Lotus tells us that “Our mind will sense it if the danger becomes too great” on account of Wally attacking again.
Later in the quest, during your graduation with ADIS, there’s a slight Refractory disconnection moment directly after the grineer show up. Following this, throughout your fight in this moment the music is backed by Wally chants.

[astral mulch]

I think this heavily plays on the fact that Wally thrives off of negative emotions

[obtuse vine]

always is the case with new quest

itll either be replayable in the echoes update early next year or later next year

[astral mulch]

The Tenno said not yet, and we hear Wally because he’s attacking the labs, it was a Murmur dragging us down

[brittle siren]

It Lotus voice though

let me recheck

[astral mulch]

Do you have a female operator?

[thick yacht]

Hot take

After Wally is dealt with we need to deal with the Corpus and Grineer too at last

[astral mulch]

They’re pretty much dealt with, if anything we work with them at this point despite a majority of things

[thick yacht]

They need to be destroyed

[brittle siren]

male

[astral mulch]

xD I think we’ll end up helping them in the long run, especially after Old Peace showing us how the grineer used to look

[brittle siren]

https://youtu.be/Rr3LnnTETso?t=3840

1:04:00

it's Lotus's

[astral mulch]

Then it was probably Lotus saving us

[brittle siren]

but again, why Wally voice filter slide in

[astral mulch]

Because he was the one dragging us down

[brittle siren]

why he say not yet too?

[astral mulch]

I don’t know he does weird things xD

Maybe he was saying not yet because he didn’t want us to get out of the water yet, it seemed he was very close to taking over the lab basically

[thick yacht]

That would be the worst outcome

[astral mulch]

so it was basically a tug of war between lotus and Wally, either that or Wally has fully infiltrated her mind after Lotus Eaters

[thick yacht]

Grineer are extremely violent and dangerous and are led by a orokin queen

[brittle siren]

also what is the ost during the fight with murmur in Old Peace

[astral mulch]

Your point would be valid if Tenno weren’t responsible for galactic massacres atp, mainly on those two focus groups

[pale cedar]

We haven't got the numbers to do that we are the underdogs

[astral mulch]

There’s plenty of instances where Grineer and Corpus have shown they can be better, right now everything they do is so they can cure clonerot

[thick yacht]

They better hope to whatever gods they believe in there isn’t more Orokin era gene locked technology that’s known of

[astral mulch]

Numbers don’t matter for us😭 I think that’s beyond obvious

[thick yacht]

Cause now we have Roathe

[pale cedar]

Numbers do matter

[astral mulch]

Yeah they matter, but we have numbers in the sense of Tenno exist alongside eachother still, and control warframes with godlike abilities

[pale cedar]

We wouldn't be able to handle all of them

[astral mulch]

I think we would, canonically the Tenno and warframes have shown they’re beyond capable of doing so, they just choose not to

[pale cedar]

There's millions of Grineer to only a few hundred Tenno at best

[glacial bough]

It's more billions to thousand

[astral mulch]

Millions of grineer don’t mater though when warframes can bring them back from the dead or consistently replicate them

Turn them against eachother let alone ravage an entire battlefield with one swoop

[glacial bough]

The Tenno, at best, could maybe eliminate one faction

[pale cedar]

Nah Grineer are referred to as millions strong

[glacial bough]

Yeah, and that's a great colloquialism

It's not any kind of hard limit, especially when we know each fraction can lose millions of troops in a day and barely notice

[pale cedar]

Either way we ain't got the numbers to completely destroy them

[glacial bough]

As said, we could at best eliminate one faction

[astral mulch]

I still argue we don’t need numbers, we’re far stronger than them in every capacity, even in the sense we could create our own numbers

[glacial bough]

That just leaves up open to the order faction to steamroll over us

[glacial bough]

We absolutely need numbers

[astral mulch]

With frames like Nyx that can shift the entire battlefield against itself?

[glacial bough]

Tenno firepower is nowhere near overwhelming enough to compete with sheer scale and numbers

[glacial bough]

To a limited degree, sure

[astral mulch]

I’d assume the Tenno wouldn’t just go into the battlefield as themselves

[glacial bough]

Our enemies have the numbers to not care

[dark compass]

Is this a powerscaling debate?

[astral mulch]

Yes

[dark compass]

https://tenor.com/view/veeunus-spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-squidward-done-gif-24674884

[glacial bough]

Barely. The Tenno are without a doubt the pound for pound strongest fighters in the system

That's never in question

[astral mulch]

I’d also argue the Tenno can’t die, so again why would numbers matter if they just come back

[pale cedar]

Rell

[astral mulch]

If it really came down to tooth and nail the drifter/operator could handle things with their abilities as well

It’s not like they’re incapable of using weapons either

We also have the railjack, possibly multiple since there’s clearly more than one Tenno alive

[thick yacht]

Also, I think are forgetting that you don’t need to kill every Grineer or corpus. Kill the Corpus Board of Directors & Parvos and the remaining Grineer Queen on her barren rock, and both empires will come crashing down.

[glacial bough]

Both faction have numerous ways to negate our advantages

[pale cedar]

They have bigger ships than a Railjack

[astral mulch]

This and this is exactly where my mind goes, you can literally kill one of the grineer queens in second dream

[glacial bough]

Railjacks don't mean anything to the thousands of capital ships both factions can put out without breaking a sweat

[astral mulch]

It’s far easier for us than it seems, the Tenno aren’t the type to slowly mow through an entire army, they will cut it off at the head

[glacial bough]

That's also because they let us waltz right up to them

[astral mulch]

I’m sure we could do it again

[glacial bough]

We have no way to access any of the faction leaders

[astral mulch]

Says who?

[glacial bough]

Literally everything in the game

[pale cedar]

We also aren't there to kill the faction leaders

[thick yacht]

The Grineer and corpus for all their might are extremely divided internally, if they lost their internal leadership in a strike like they’d fall exactly how the Orokin did

[pale cedar]

We know that's a dangerous thing to do

[astral mulch]

We have assassination missions for the faction leaders, the only reason we don’t kill them is because of plot

[thick yacht]

The orokin seemed invincible… until they weren’t.

[glacial bough]

They would, which is why they never stick their heads out of the ground for long enough to track

[pale cedar]

Killing faction leaders leads to a power struggle which is why we didn't kill both Queens

[astral mulch]

Tyl regor, a grineer leader curing clone rot, is canonically dead because we basically waltzed up and killed him

[pale cedar]

Tyl is just a scientist

[main crane]

Not really. According to Roathe, the Orokin Executors love to spite each other (they go to war with each other) until the Sentient threat came where they had to unite as one and fight the Sentients.

[glacial bough]

Well no, the other Queen dipped out before anything could happen

We absolutely would have killed her if she had stuck around

[astral mulch]

There has been plenty of instances where we could’ve ended everything, we just choose not to

[thick yacht]

And we don’t want that because we don’t want the system in chaos yes, but maybe it’s time for new leadership

[astral mulch]

The origin system needs grineer and corpus at this point, they are valuable life forms despite their issues

[thick yacht]

Hear me out, maybe Nitokh had a point about taking over

[glacial bough]

Not really, no

There have only been two or so instances of us managing to get close to either fashion leadership

[astral mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/nuh-uh-no-patrick-star-patrick-nope-gif-9473600452124631034

[pale cedar]

We are more there to make sure no faction takes over the other in power

[main crane]

Wasn't Nitokh more of an asshat than Ballas?

[astral mulch]

All of the Orokin wanted to take over

That’s why they would fight with eachother

[pale cedar]

Only during Orokin era the Narmer stuff changed that

[glacial bough]

He also directly let us walk up to him. Plus we don't know if he's actually dead or not

[astral mulch]

I’m pretty sure DE confirmed he’s dead dead in story after the assassination mission

[glacial bough]

Like, legitimately the only canonically dead bosses are Vor and the Elder Queen

[pale cedar]

Ballas

[astral mulch]

Vor is corrupted Vor though

[main crane]

Well, fair enough. Maybe Roathe's belief is subjective.

[glacial bough]

Ballas sure, I'm just considering the regular factions

[thick yacht]

Ballas likely topped Nitokh considering he actually ended up taking over the system

Nitokh’s coup failed

Nitokh does seem more violent though

[glacial bough]

There's been really no confirmed death for anybody else. Bosses can and will show back up years after for whatever DE needs

[pale cedar]

They've brought Vay heck back multiple times

[glacial bough]

That's literally what happened with Tyl, him showing back up for Citrine some years after his event fight

[glacial bough]

Vay Hek is shown to run away before death

[astral mulch]

What about Sargas Ruk

[thick cedar]

I feel like my guess about archon shards being related to Adis is getting more and more sound

[astral mulch]

Wait do tell

I can already kind of see it

[glacial bough]

Had his boss fight, then showed back for Pyrus Project and Scarlet Spear

[main crane]

Hmm. Archon shards give life. Adis' song rejuvenates a dying being, whether it's a fellow Sentient or a human, the Tenno by this case.

The Archon shards healed the Lotus

[thick cedar]

Remember healing Natah in New War using Archon shards?

Also by visual design, Adis healing has same effects as archon shards dispersing into dust

[astral mulch]

Adis’s ability was specific to him as well, hence him being named ‘truth-bloom’

Let alone we saw Adis hugging Amar

[hollow siren]

Lotus calls Adis' power "rare among Sentients", implying Adis was not the only Sentient who could heal, but it might be something like one is born every 100 years or something

[astral mulch]

So in a sense, could Adis have ‘gone hollow’ after he died?

[glacial bough]

Design isn't a solid identification, DE reuses their energy vfx for everything

[thick cedar]

Hunhow says "the power to bring back the dead"
Adis probably gave us revive mechanic in that quest

[astral mulch]

I think Adis was just able to revive us because it’s implied the operator can already ‘self revive’ through void abilities

Unless you’re right and the operator didn’t figure out how to do that until Adis healed them

[thick cedar]

Some people said in previous quests if u died u never had revive option

[astral mulch]

No you did, it would put you in a void revive screen

[pale cedar]

Probably healed us enough that we could activate our self revive

[thick cedar]

Yeah it still implies "power to bring back the dead"

[pale cedar]

He definitely can but even Adis would've been hurt after the fight

[thick cedar]

Also the way Lotus delivers the message in inbox after completing the quest, "if similar power exists, we must find it"
Implying she is also probably curious about archon shards

[hollow siren]

Might want to heal Erra

[astral mulch]

This is basically what happens whenever the operator/drifter dies

[pale cedar]

I wonder if our Void abilities can revive others

[thick cedar]

I guess our main focus later will be archon shard lore

[astral mulch]

Somebody made Erra into Pazuul, with Ballas dead I want to assume Adis now if Archon shards are connected

[glacial bough]

That was just Praghasa

[astral mulch]

I think they’re definitely going to touch more on the Archons, especially after showing us Amar

[thick cedar]

Also
Hunhow said he was guarding something in UrAnus depths.
I think it's more blooms of awareness meth he's growing there.

[astral mulch]

Unless he was just talking about Jade

or was that after

[glacial bough]

Hunhow at nearly every turn has said the same thing about how he's pretty much just wallowing and waiting

[thick cedar]

If that was true he would've attacked corpus intruders using his sentients

[astral mulch]

I don’t think he would’ve wasted them with Stalker there though

If anyone is capable of handling a corpus battalion in their own it’s stalker

Because naturally he would’ve sent sentients either way to protect whatever else it would be

[thick cedar]

Also I wonder if blooms are the reason why Natah somehow got the name of Lotus

[astral mulch]

Blooms and the lotus symbol definitely look similar

[dark compass]

But can they compare to Konzu Prime

[thick cedar]

Konzu Prime must have carried zaw primes

[dark compass]

Well yeah

I think in that photo when he was young he carried a zaw

The ball shaped one with a polearm handle

[thick cedar]

Might've even disassembled a ghoulsaw to make his zaw chainsaw

[dark compass]

I bet he uses exodia contagion

[thick cedar]

Hok holds it right now

[dark compass]

Oh right

But well it's right now

We are talking about Konzu Prime

His best time

[thick cedar]

I even managed to figure out what strike & grip it used
But can't find the link.

[unique talon]

Since the orokin were a super advanced society, what was their religion?

[hollow siren]

They worshipped themselves

"Before the vain faith, our people held Dualism as truth"

"the vain faith" referring to how the Orokin are so vain they deified themselves

[dark compass]

Dualism that was followed by "actually that's not us so we are gods now"

[unique talon]

So they completely threw away Christianity

[glacial bough]

It never existed

[hollow siren]

Christianity has no direct mention in warframe

There's catholic imagery, yes, but that's more just from an art design perspective

[dark compass]

Yeah, dominant religion was Dualism beforehand, which is vaguely inspired by different forms of religious beliefs

[unique talon]

How about that "void" Nef anyo often mentions?

[dark compass]

Corpus do worship profit and the void

[pale cedar]

Void isn't a religion tbh

[dark compass]

It's just part of their tenets ig

[pale cedar]

Or just Nef being stupid

[dark compass]

But Corpus aren't really an orokin led society

They're offshoots

[hollow siren]

The Corpus worship the Void and the concept of Profit

[pale cedar]

Nef also thinks he's the heir to the Orokin

[main crane]

Probably lower class Orokin at some point since Hunhow calls Alad V an Orokin.

[hollow siren]

Parvos was a regular human living under Orokin rule

[dark compass]

^

[thick cedar]

Sol & Lua worshippers?

[glacial bough]

That's cause Hunhow doesn't bother to make the difference

[hollow siren]

That's just Hunhow being racist and classing all humans as Orokin by association

[pale cedar]

Nef just likes calling himself the heir to stuff

[dark compass]

Yeah remember what happened in deadlock protocol

[hollow siren]

Many of the modern Corpus elites like to view the Corpus as the heirs of Orokin society just cause it existed in the Orokin era and they too have advanced technology

[thick cedar]

How many sons does Parvos even have...

[pale cedar]

Too many

We never find out of they are actually related tbh

[thick cedar]

The guy with too many sons & too many sisters...

[dark compass]

Hasn't Nef himself mentioned that he's his son by some weird program

Rather than his mother having a relationship

[thick cedar]

Must be test tube.

[unique talon]

Well

[dark compass]

So there's probably a bunch of children of his

[unique talon]

In 1999 we still have sol and lua

[hollow siren]

yeah, that's Dualism

[pale cedar]

Nef would be the only son also on the Board

Could Parvos actually just say I'm the Chairman again now and they'd make it happen with there already being another Chairman

[glacial bough]

No, not automatically

[dark compass]

Didn't he straight up try a hostile takeover with specters

He wouldn't just proclaim himself, he would work towards his goal

By work I mean attacking and taking it by force

[hollow siren]

yeah that's why Granum Corps are a thing now

[manic rover]

Can anyone summarize to me what basically happened in the ARG? I think I heard it's related to the Prime Vanguard?

[dark compass]

You go through a "test" that determines your preferable focus school through a choose your own adventure operation, in which you in a group of Tenno assault and explode a world seeder. Ultimately your choices doesn't really matter since "sacrifices are necessary" and everyone but you dies in an explosion no matter what.

|| If you pay attention you find snippets of some people talking and their respective weapon. If you collect them all, you'll get a hidden message about a bunch of Tenno who whose experience was used for this test and turned into a propaganda piece.

They have found that the world seeder has landed on a spot that emitted a strange form of radiation that was able to permanently lock transference and fuse the operator with their warframe. Turns out orokin have gassed the place and studied their affected bodies in a lab.||

[manic rover]

Oh

I see

What's a world seeder exactly? I've seen the term being mentioned a lot in the quest too

[dark compass]

Egg

They're terraforming devices that were meant to be a starting ground for Tau system to become habitable

[manic rover]

Oh isee

That's near where xenaflora grows too?

[dark compass]

Yeah

By blowing one up in the quest we doomed the nearby xenoflora

[manic rover]

We blew it up because we inputed the incorrect codes right?

[dark compass]

Yep, message was tampered with, seemingly by Ballas

[manic rover]

alr alr

[loud oriole]

good ol' Ballas doing his Ballas ways
-# allegedly.

[manic rover]

So the arg was not related to the prime Vanguard, must've mixed up

[manic rover]

Love me the trope of some evil guy dying and then finding out later they were much more evil

[dark compass]

So many people asking "can we kill ballas again" now

[manic rover]

Is it mentioned what came off from the Tenno that suffered in the arg? Or was it just said that they were locked inside their Warframes with no further info?

[dark compass]

They're toast. Place got gassed, blown up and their corpses were used in research

[loud oriole]

i almost got close to changing the entire story of warframe since i may or may not have failed the protect mission segment, (it made the big reveal hit harder than it should have though)

[dark compass]

I assume this will be brought up in the tau update, rather than this one

Seems like a very big setup

[manic rover]

Yeah but.. "You cannot kill the Devil, Tenno" 😭

[loud oriole]

but you can send them back to hell

[manic rover]

Watch Tau sentients have the inverse of the kuva guardians. Locking you inside the Warframe instead of yeeting you out

Would be paired with objectives that require you to get out of your warframe

But something tells me we won't find Sentients in Tau.

[loud oriole]

if we do, I can only imagine how feral they've gotten without the Xenoflora and no orders to be given

[manic rover]

Hunhow looked fine without it, perhaps "next gen" Sentients developed an immunity

[loud oriole]

could be a possibility, esp with their ability to start ignoring constant elemental damage

[dark compass]

They still have to explain what's up with Hunhow, I think

There's the idea(theory?) of sentient hive minds having the "progenitors"

Which control the smaller pieces

And the smaller pieces getting their own independence is what xenoflora actually does

[eager dragon]

I assumed that Hunhow was one of the main "nodes" within the hivemind, though - he's fine because he developed sentience without the xenoflora.

The Sentients we see went feral because they didn't have a hivemind to connect to, thus they seeked orders from other sources.

Atleast that's my understanding.

Similar to Praghasa, Natah, and Erra.

[manic rover]

I have another theory. The Old War didn't end.
The Old Peace was just the interlude point between the initial war and the REAL Old War.
The initial war was against the Sentient hivemind that would inevitably collapse after the discovery of xenaflora.
Ballas' actions cause the now Sentients of Tau that are now self aware to unite and retaliate. This is when Hunhow is conceived as the leading figure of the Sentients

[stiff beacon]

So what your saying is the sentients operate like the zerg?

[manic rover]

Necramechs, autonomous Warframes were only used in the initial war

[eager dragon]

I mean, yeah, the Old Peace happened mid-way through the Old War.

Pretty sure the "self-aware" part disappeared after the Xenoflora was destroyed though, it just went back to the Hivemind (notice how all modern sentients other than like Natah are red).

[hollow siren]

yeah rn the common Sentients are all pretty much under the Hivemind of a Greater Sentient

[manic rover]

It wasn't destroyed. Ballas just used that patch of xenaflora as the spark to reignite the war

[hollow siren]

Hunhow, Erra and Natah have all had/have Hiveminds of their own

[dark compass]

And it seemed like Hunhow actively tried to take over Natah

[hollow siren]

Pazuul and the Archons also seem to either each have their own, or the Beasts all share one

[eager dragon]

I'm 99.9% sure that all of the Xenoflora was destroyed.

[dark compass]

In his first appearance

[eager dragon]

That's the reason why Adis was so pissed.

[dark compass]

Unless I'm misremembering things

[manic rover]

It was one of the few remaining xenaflora spots, it wasn't THE LAST one.

[eager dragon]

Adis' crashout doesn't really make sense then, though.

[hollow siren]

"How many world-seeders? Enough for whole planet? Whole system!?"

[manic rover]

Looked to me like Hunhow was trying to break through her "brainwashing"

[dark compass]

Fair.

[manic rover]

If you had 3 loaves of bread to eat for a week you WOULD crash out when a random person threw one away

[hollow siren]

the world-seeders kinda remind me of the Incubators in Steven Universe, especially the giant one seen in the movie

[manic rover]

Each loss of a xenaflora garden means more sentients will relapse

[eager dragon]

Either way, however, none of the modern day sentients are on Xenoflora.

[manic rover]

That's because they may have adapted

[loud oriole]

Adis' crash out could be warranted because, who knows, the codes were tampered yes, but who's to say in that tampering there wasn't a system override for all seeders to self-destruct

[eager dragon]

Difference being that the Xenoflora can reproduce.

Unlike bread.

[manic rover]

They burn faster than they sprout

[eager dragon]

Which means either they were all destroyed in the end, or there would be aplenty once the Orokin left.

[manic rover]

The betrayal also signifies that the Orokin are willing to destroy ALL xenaflora.

[obtuse vine]

does the old piece basically confirm that the seven and the executors are one and the same?

[manic rover]

Yes. That was always the case.

[obtuse vine]

huge

someone gotta update the wiki

[manic rover]

There is also a royal family of Orokin which are above the Executors according to Roathe yet they are completely disconnected

[eager dragon]

The emperors

[manic rover]

Basically having the same governmental power as the royal family in the UK

[eager dragon]

Not necessarily a family, though, unless it's revealed in a future KIM chat I haven't seen yet.

[obtuse vine]

one of the blue man from the blue man group married into the toyal family

[manic rover]

Like c'mon, it's definitely a family at the top. Like the Orokin Empire isn't based on the British Empire

[obtuse vine]

every evil empire is based on the british

[manic rover]

Ain't that the truth

Watch them be called Dentrati or something

[obtuse vine]

speaking of empire, is it fair to say tht ballas basically just used the same strategy palpatine used to get what he wanted (still unclear what he wanted)

[eager dragon]

The Orokin Empire is a conglomerate of several different real life nations, and until proven in either direction we cannot know whether the Emperors are family, or even how many of them there are.

[gusty yacht]

I was thinking, how is the lotus not feral without the xenoflora

[loud oriole]

built different (literally, possibly)

[manic rover]

Adaptation

[obtuse vine]

and hunhow and erra

[manic rover]

From a generation of Sentients that have adapted

[eager dragon]

Probably a main "node" of the hivemind, such as Hunhow.

Rather than a piece like a concalysts or ortholysts.

She isn't called the "Queen" of the mimics for no reason.

[obtuse vine]

thts wht i think too

[eager dragon]

So she would have sentience without the need of Xenoflora.

[manic rover]

I think Caliban's lore tidbit was retconned..

[obtuse vine]

plus the fact tht evey ortholyst and concalyst we've seen so far is red points to the fact that they are feral

[gusty yacht]

Was the old peace after the old war?

[obtuse vine]

its in the middle i think

[eager dragon]

Mid-way.

[manic rover]

Old Peace was IN the old war

[gusty yacht]

I think it was a grace period then

[obtuse vine]

closer to the start i assume because margulis is still alive

[manic rover]

Exactly

[gusty yacht]

Yeah i think it was

[obtuse vine]

right before the got glassed

[manic rover]

Not even past the climax

[loud oriole]

unless Sentient 'biology' dictates that any sentient created with an underlying derivative is able to function without requiring any external stimuli.

[eager dragon]

But far enough that the warframes could be developed, tested, and removed until the Tenno appeared.

[obtuse vine]

best guess is because hunhow made/birthed erra and the lotus, they have some privledge/autonomy seperate from him

as usual though theres just no answers yet

[manic rover]

Warframe lore is stretched a lot. The Old War may have lasted a century

[gusty yacht]

I think lotus was born with the command to mimic margulis, so thats why

So i think that command is still partially there

[hollow siren]

Amar was chill when he was on that 🇧🇱🇺🇪

what

why did it turn into flags

[obtuse vine]

yeah i think its best not the think about how much time passes inbetween lore. cuz to me atleast it wouldnt make sense that the radiation wars that happened in 1999 is still remembered by someone after like what hundereds of thousands of years in the future

[hollow siren]

🇧 🇱 🇺 🇪

ok attempt 2

[obtuse vine]

joint effort between hunhow and ballas

[hollow siren]

Amar was chill when he was on that 🇧 🇱 🇺 🇪

[eager dragon]

Kind off. I'm still of the opinion that Ballas brainwashed Natah abit more thoroughly than Hunhow agreed on. I somehow doubt he liked her being Ballas' anime waifu body pillow.

[obtuse vine]

WAIT THT WOLF WAS AMAR

[manic rover]

We know the old war was like a thousand years ago (something parvos said I think?)

[eager dragon]

Yeah, I was fully expecting to see the other 3 archons in the quest.

[manic rover]

As for the "modern times", it's not far fetched to think it has been 20.000 years or something haha

[glacial bough]

Old War is at least 1000 years ago, yes

[obtuse vine]

holy damn i did not read the name of the subtitles properly cuz i missed tht tht was archon amar

[eager dragon]

Would have loved to see Nira, Boreal and Pazuul pre-Archonification (even if they were all assholes).

[obtuse vine]

yeah aint noone remembering anything tht happened 20k years ago lmao

[manic rover]

The lotus may have described them as their "grotesque" personalities, not their original ones

[obtuse vine]

I will continue to not think about how time passes in the warframe universe

[loud oriole]

or how time doesn't pass ^

[obtuse vine]

this makes me dislike erra

[eager dragon]

Doubtfull, considering she often mentioned the Ram even though he did not turn into an Archon until after Erra's death.

[manic rover]

Not if there was a better way to archive history other than stone tablets. Also REALLY long lifetimes too

[manic rover]

War changes people.

[obtuse vine]

true they are immortal but that assumes that their immortality came early in their civilization

[eager dragon]

Oh yeah, like Darvo being 110 or so years old and being considering a young adult/old teenager.

[obtuse vine]

HE'S 110 YEARS OLD????

[eager dragon]

If I'm remembering correctly, let me double check to make sure I'm not spreading misinformation.

[loud oriole]

yeah he's a youngin, maybe

[obtuse vine]

wait does this mean TESHIN IS LIKE 1 THOUSAND YEARS OLD AT LEAST

[eager dragon]

Sorry, 105 years old.

[eager dragon]

Yes, assuming he wasn't in ice at all.

[obtuse vine]

I mean since the orokin empire fell i dont think theres anyone to put him in ice

guys, i dont like this. hearing that everyone is like thousands of years old in this game makes me feel uneasy

[eager dragon]

Varzia was in cryosleep for basically the entire duration, so who knows. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[loud oriole]

think about how old the operator is

[eager dragon]

To be fair most of that time the Operator was sleeping.

[loud oriole]

very true, and in a place where time doesn't exist

[obtuse vine]

i will refuse to put the operator into the "thousand year old being that looks like a child". that is a 12y/o kid and i will not accept any other age

[eager dragon]

I still consider them more mature than the Drifter though.

[eager dragon]

As you should.

Although I consider atleast my Operator to be closer to the 14 year range.

[obtuse vine]

theyre definetly more empathetic considering the drifter was numb for..............THOUSANDS OF YEARS?????

[loud oriole]

oh definitely, oppy has seen some stuff that drifter could only dream of

[obtuse vine]

i hate this

the drifter was in duviri for atleast a thousand years looping the same day over and over again

[eager dragon]

Atleast in my head canon the Drifter is actually more empathetic. I consider the Operator to be more "end justify the means" sort of individual.

For example, they would not hesitate to shoot Rusalka at the end of 1999.

[obtuse vine]

we'll their whole thing is "see inside a broken thing and take away their pain"

[pale cedar]

Drifter seems more mature to me

[obtuse vine]

drifter had to go through duviri and the hex to learn tht lesson properly

[eager dragon]

I just don't see them spending so much time in war (and around the Orokin) and not inheriting atleast part of their... manners, subconsciously.

[obtuse vine]

thats fair

[eager dragon]

True. But I think there is a very strong distinction of "us vs them" with the Operator.

They are empathetic to those they consider friends.

[obtuse vine]

its kinda hard to judge what canon operators act like outside of quests cuz they dont have a system like the KIM to flesh them out more

[eager dragon]

And cold-hearted to those they consider enemies.

Unlike the Drifter who, as we see with Rusalka, has a much less defined boundary.

[obtuse vine]

going by the ingame lines they say in normals missions, they are SUPER xenophobic

[eager dragon]

Yeah, absolutely, this is 100% headcanon.

[obtuse vine]

wait no theres no aliens in warframe

so they're just racist lmao

[pale cedar]

There was

[gusty yacht]

The flowers were

[obtuse vine]

which ones?

[eager dragon]

Xenoflora. Man that was a bombshell.

[obtuse vine]

Oh yeah

well i was refering more to walking and talking aliens

idk if u can be xenophobic to flowers

[eager dragon]

Fair enough.