lore-discussion

[dire mountain]

That is true itzam said that the garden blossomed the minds that began to grow on their journey

But that still leaves too many questions to say anything for certain

[glacial bough]

We know the Sentients developed into sapience on the way over

[dark compass]

KIM chat with Hunhow when

[dire mountain]

Ykw yeah that works

He's lonely it would probably be nice

[dapper bloom]

did i got it right

[dire mountain]

||also if there are any xenoflora left we should bring it back to him so he can begin farming again||

[dark compass]

grandpa using the computer

sending you minion memes

[dire mountain]

He sends one of his fragments to type

[dreamy orbit]

unc hows living in uranus like?

[dapper bloom]

Eidolons could be attributed to any of the parents

unless the sentient invasion was bigger and everyone else got sidelined by Natah's family

just for plot sake

[sweet wadi]

Hunhow romance when

[dapper bloom]

Like the big sentient corpse on the horizon of the Plains look Hunhow sized for sure

[dark compass]

instant breakup if you make an uranus joke

[dapper bloom]

you might be onto something

tho, i'm guessing Natah didnt had a childhood, was born and then straight to war

[stiff fable]

yfw he does nothing but post racist facebook memes every day

[sweet wadi]

Are Margulis’s spooky eyes at the end supposed to imply she’s already a mimic, somehow?

[stiff fable]

it's supposed to imply it's after you blew her eyes out with void powers

[strange plinth]

no, her eyes were burned out by a tenno (accidentally)
unknown who, exactly. biggest contenders are us or rell

[stiff fable]

Well, general you, we're not sure if it was the player, Rell or some rando

[sweet wadi]

“Organics make up only 40% of the Sol system and yet commit 90% of the crimes. Coincidence?”

[dapper bloom]

who knows how many times our brain has been wiped clean

[dark compass]

as many times as time travel expansions we might require

[sweet wadi]

Ah I forgot that bit

[lean garden]

presumably closed? no need to presume, the rail go boom

[dapper bloom]

when was this?

[dire mountain]

After the old peace

[stiff fable]

absolutely savage

yeah Hunhow blew the rail

[sweet wadi]

“Damn squishies need to watch themselves.”

[dapper bloom]

i missed that, must have glossed over it

[sweet wadi]

Natah awkwardly apologizing. “He’s from a different time.”

[stiff fable]

Best not be flashin' synthsteel when u walk through Taumpton

[dire mountain]

Where did we find hunhow blew the solar rail

I forgot but I know it happened

[sweet wadi]

… wait does that mean Adis was doing… what, fleshface?

[stiff fable]

Passing

Sentientface is using Caliban

[sweet wadi]

… final question, were we married to Adis?

Did I kill my robot husband?

[dire mountain]

Platonically

[stiff fable]

Family annihilator

and then after that you went and did a school shooting

[heady adder]

I just rewatched the Chains of Harrow trailer and saw smth familiar... could this be the one I think?

[sweet wadi]

Play warframe. We have child weddings.

Wait no-

[dreamy orbit]

if you want a poor analogy: ||we and adis are like viktor and jayce in arcane||

[proper barn]

That's no.

It was a graduation ceremonym

We where just the only current students.

[strange plinth]

the design for uriel has existed for a while, and was used for that chains trailer
but no, they're probably not related

[dark compass]

A lot of the even modern frame designs are old

[sweet wadi]

Words like ‘bonded’ were used though so it’s… intimate for a graduation is all.

[dark compass]

old old

Cyte is the one example we 100% know is ancient

[stiff fable]

Look it's subtext.

But every DE employee has an AO3 account, they knew what they were doing

[heady adder]

How exact old is Cyte...?

[dark compass]

He was thrown around when Lavos was in the design stage

[patent cargo]

so old we forgot his real name

[heady adder]

Bruh WHAT

[stiff fable]

Also I think Temple's design is from 2018...?

[dark compass]

Yep

Drafts for temple are from 2018

[stiff fable]

whew

[dark compass]

But they couldn't figure out the guitar implementation

[dark compass]

Cyte was one of the design they made up for Lavos

It got scrapped in favor of the twinkvos

Then they made twinkvos wide

[heady adder]

twinkvos lolol

So the others are old as well? I wonder when did they designed Komei

[heady adder]

Damn

[dark compass]

He is still kinda the same

Just stretched wide

[heady adder]

Femboi Lavos sheesh

[stiff fable]

Warframes can have a several year design process

[dark compass]

^

[dark compass]

He still slays

[fast dew]

Look at those heels

[stiff fable]

frequently involving multiple initial drafts that go unused, or compared against previous unused drafts

[fast dew]

We need more gun high heels. Let more games be influenced by bayonetta

[stiff fable]

MOOOOOOON RIVER

[heady adder]

Just like Loki?

I still remember we was suppose to get a female Loki

[fast dew]

All warframes go through several different visual ideas

[stiff fable]

More like Nyx

[heady adder]

Oh

[stiff fable]

AKA "female Excalibur"

[dark compass]

This is the same design. All they did from concept to final stage is this

[fast dew]

Its just what happens in concept design

Loid isn't even one and looked to be a orokin in early design

Thats just concept design

[heady adder]

I love concept designs...

[stiff fable]

right, back when they were figuring out how much Orokin culture was in non-Orokin

[tall echo]

Wide conceptavos

[fast dew]

Loid was always supposed to be hella gay looking but i can't tell if he was supposed to be gay or if its just liger being liger

[fast dew]

Homie he was pale blue

[strange plinth]

was curious as well so i went and found it
first mention is during Natah, hunhow alludes to it with "We crossed the gap - wombs in ruin - to bring an end to this. We severed worlds, let them destory me."
but pazuul also says it in propaganda broadcasts. "My father severed the worlds, sundered the link we had forged with Tau, in the days of our enslavement."

[dark compass]

And this is an early design for Lavos. Looks familiar doesn't it

[fast dew]

He was very much a orokin at the start 😭 why was broski a orokin

[dark compass]

Someone leaked it in like 2019

[stiff fable]

man old Cyte is just a kriegsmarine

[dire mountain]

Wait which concept art

[dire mountain]

Hello frumentarius

[heady adder]

NOFRICKINWAY

[proper barn]

Do you not know how like concept art works?

[dark compass]

I do?

[dire mountain]

Thank you I was really curious but searching "hunhow" and "rail" didnt bring me much

[proper barn]

Was it? Who says?

[fast dew]

Why was bro grey/blue

[dark compass]

There was a series of tweets sneaking up behind closed doors on tennocon and showing these

[stiff fable]

huh

[fast dew]

And he slowly goes whiter. Then i think hispanic? Then white, then some person of colour

[stiff fable]

C2 is Roathe's face piece

[heady adder]

He kinda looks like Vamp from MGS

[fast dew]

Not exactly

Those are still glasses

But yeah

Loid was hella queer lookin even in early development

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-rupaul-rupauls-drag-race-s15e7-lol-gif-17233067303928856625

[fast dew]

Rupaul jumpscare hello

[stiff fable]

slay queen

[fast dew]

Would loid watch drag race? Hm..

[stiff fable]

yeah late at night while doing dishes

[fast dew]

Bro hears the queens say the most outrageous shit and has to stay quiet incase he wakes rhe cavia up

[stiff fable]

hahahaha

[fast dew]

Also reckon Albrecht gave the triad a monster (the drink) and lyon needed a whole ass doctor

[dark compass]

He let Lyon listen to OnLyne and fed him a monster

[stiff fable]

hahaha yeah

[dark compass]

No wonder he doesn't want to talk to us

[stiff fable]

also how the heck does Roathe know so much about Duviri, seriously

[fast dew]

Gave them a ultra rosa and Lyon disintegrated

[dark compass]

"can the Orokin ever be forgiven"

[stiff fable]

This must be the work of an enemy Orokin

[fast dew]

"No that bâtard killed me with a 'drink' from the depths of the blue devil's mind. They cannot be forgiven."

Gave marie some ultraprocessed bread and she was bedridden for days

And just stabbed roathe, he doesn't get the pleasure of food.

[stray herald]

Can anyone tell me how roathe regained consciousness when albrecht summoned him?

Or are we not there yet?

[bright temple]

https://tenor.com/view/zaunvi-caitvitwt-gif-1251875630135871970

[stray herald]

@tall echo if ur confused, i asked roathe about how he reverse engineered the helminth. He mentioned that he wasnt conscious of himself in his arrival to XX99

[tall echo]

Yeah albrecht drive-by kidnapped him there

[stray herald]

But after that, he used the helminth that was already there and the primitive equipment in that time period

So did he undo the helminth or is he in the process of turning into uriel?

[strange plinth]

can't undo the helminth tmk. still in the process

[frozen flame]

The final quest for the last Queen of the Griners when?

[strange plinth]

we can't kill the worm, that would create a power vacuum and we're supposed to keep the balance

[stray herald]

Now that is contradicted by albrecht summoning him here as the warframe Uriel, not roathe, in the devil triad teaser. Roathe seems to back that up when he talked about al’s question of forgiving the orokin that al was only talking to uriel, not roathe

[strange plinth]

the teaser is a showcase, not an actual event?

[stray herald]

The kim messages doesnt seem to agree

[fast dew]

Albrecht knows roathe as uriel, shrimple

[strange plinth]

he's unconscious, not a full frame

[fast dew]

And Roathe isn't the most reliable as well. Memory loss and all

[stray herald]

He seemed to be lucid in that detail

[fast dew]

Ehh

So did father when he said he met mother after Albrecht left, even though we know its not true

Characters can be confidently incorrect. Especially when they've been brainworm'd

I hope Albrecht didn't do that to the family actually

[stray herald]

Still, al addressed him as uriel, which it could mean roathe was still in full frame form

[fast dew]

Cept he wasn't

Or Roathe wouldn't remember (or be roathe)

[lean garden]

given that we see roathe as a proto, we can reasonably guess albrecht was just calling him uriel

[fast dew]

Mhm

[stray herald]

Hmm

[fast dew]

It certainly is an Albrecht thing to do

[strange plinth]

can't undo the transformation. if he was uriel then, he'd still be uriel now

[fast dew]

Exactly

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1447039990847504535/1448726608981659689/IMG_0074.gif

[dark compass]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-whispers-in-the-wall-albrecht-entrati-loid-entrati-gif-4638860566853218120

[zenith wraith]

Are Lyon and Marie from the medieval times?

[dark compass]

1899

[humble sierra]

If I understand correctly, approaching him in La Cathédrale, there's a dialogue with him that reveals Roathe called himself the Devil of Tau, and so his soldiers had that devil aesthetic. Then they were punished by being turned into devil Warframes. Roathe is one of many Uriels made.

[strange plinth]

probably
references to 1899 have been repeatedly removed,,

[vale rivet]

What’s albercts love for 99 years

Next where gona get 2099 lol

[strange plinth]

unknown
maybe something with the whole "we end as we began" thing

[vale rivet]

Also

We got his name

So far we have eularia and petros and dagath

[copper mountain]

Good to know that DE are just as mad as I am that Netflix cancelled it after the first season

In fairness Roathe only mentions that the triad came from the 19th century, not that La Cathedrale itself is in the 19th century (although it does seem likely)

[strange plinth]

currently our only reference is that the building doesn't have electricity. the 19th century comment was removed as well

[copper mountain]

Oh wait really

Like hotfixed out?

[strange plinth]

yup

[vale rivet]

So are Uriel Roaths subordinates?

[copper mountain]

Roathe getting chastised IRL for spilling too many beans

[strange plinth]

the people under roathe were turned into uriels, yes

[next mica]

so there's still a chance than we're being baited and than the triad came from after the nuclear war? 👀 (or does something else contradict that hypothesis ? (sorry i'm not up to the lore from this update: ') )

[vale rivet]

OMG DOSE ROATHE EVER STOP KIMING ME

[strange plinth]

nothing currently in-game that i've seen
i've heard some speculation that its tied to/will be revealed in the operation

[stray herald]

Every time u beat roathe boss, he sends a voicemail

[next mica]

wait really?

[stray herald]

The soldiers he trains all dawned the name uriel, and subsequently became the warframes also

[stray herald]

Yea. Its a lore thing

[strange plinth]

each full descendia run i believe, not just every roathe kill
dunno though, might be wrong

[next mica]

did it come with the new hotfix? or do you need to do something specific like steelpath for the voicemail to be sent? dont think I got one yet

[stray herald]

Ive been repeating from lyon floor, so its every roathe kill

[strange plinth]

ah

[vale rivet]

I’m happy we can beat up roathe even though it’s just in his head cause he’s Orokin

[stray herald]

How many of the seven are named?

[strange plinth]

all

[vale rivet]

So glad orden rejected becoming an Orokin

[stray herald]

We got ball ass, nitohk, tuvul and who else?

[strange plinth]

ballas, karishh, tuvul, avantus, tormis, nitokh, scarne

[vale rivet]

Did you mean ball ass?

[stray herald]

Amd theres supposed to be an emperor of all orokin?

[strange plinth]

there are the emperors above the seven executors, yes
though we know nothing about them and they don't seem to do much

[stray herald]

Like the queen of england?

[dark compass]

The way Roathe talks about them(so far, in my experience) makes it look like they're more symbolical

Than anything holding real power

Which comes to executors

[stray herald]

Are the seven the worst people to ever lived in comparison to other orokin?

[strange plinth]

prolly

we don't exactly have a large sample size

[stray herald]

Or deeds?

[teal glacier]

So.. ||is Albrecht and Loid just gay?|| like, is that canon-

[lean garden]

yea?

[strange plinth]

yes. they're lovers

always have been

[teal glacier]

Peak.

Just wanted to confirm cause itd been ages since I did the quest for Sanctum Atonimic

Or whatever its spelled-

[dark compass]

Yes

Also nothing to spoiler in this channel

Except maybe the latest update stuff

They're gay as hell

Have you seen Loid

[stray herald]

I never paid attention to the portal to the cathedral but the wall is painted someone in the style of francis bacon’s screaming pope

[fresh jacinth]

🤔

[hazy prism]

Slight spoilers for the latest update||When Roathe says it's the 19th century is that 100% correct or is that just what he thinks||

[stiff fable]

He's saying what he thinks

[stray herald]

Point me to the text

[stiff fable]

But the dates match up

[humble sierra]

||Before the update they accidentally released something that called it 1899, but so far the game wants to call it XX99||

[stiff fable]

Entrati's nickname there, "Diamanche", means "Sunday"

1899 began and ended on a Sunday

Same as how 1999 began and ended on a Friday

[humble sierra]

And he was called Doktor Friday in 1999, which ended on Friday (the update also released on a Friday)

[proper barn]

Yeah. We got trans women we got nonbinary rock stars. We got a she/her guitar We got a bi Poly horse girl.

[stiff fable]

And so Albrecht called himself "Doktor Friday"

[proper barn]

We got a bi Dax woman.

[stray herald]

That is so not a coincidence

[stiff fable]

here's the one thing

1899 on what calendar

after all if you nuke the planet a few times.... lotta history can get burned

[humble sierra]

Yeah might not be the standard calendar we're used to. They don't have birthdays I think, since they're not part of the 1999 calendar, and similarly we don't see months

[next mica]

We do know than the cathedral is closer in time to 1999 than to us, that's a start

[proper barn]

We got a main character that says Geneder isn't real. That trans woman I mentioned earlier has a lore fragment talking about "call me by your name." We got a Character that has autism. Multiple disabled characters. @teal glacier

A few people have ADHD.

[hazy prism]

I have seen some theories that xx99 is the AFTERMATH of the radiation wars, so it would be some 1899 years after 31st Dec 1999/ 1st Jan 2000

[proper barn]

Also we even use this to beat the indifference.

[next mica]

Since 1999 was supposed to be the farest entrati could go with time travel that would make sense yeah, except if somehow our actions in 1999 made time travel easier ? but that would create even more paradox tho (but warframe love paradox 🥲 )

[stiff fable]

Canticle for Leibowitz

[dark compass]

That's actually a very good point

That's why the numbers are hidden, to stay vague about those things

[next mica]

probably x) but even with the exact number we wouldnt be able to be sure that it was the same calendar than 1999 tho 🥲

[stray herald]

So new info about archimedeas,p: the invention of archimedeas were just for entertainment. But with the sentients becoming more advanced through adaptation, they reinvented the archimedea as a method of extrapolation to destroy the sentients

[hazy prism]

The funniest answer is outside the cathedral is normal 1999 and Marie, Lyon and Roathe are just shut ins and thus we just assume they're from an earlier time period based purely on vibes

[stray herald]

Also archimedeas were events to just trash on sentients alongside prisoners and/or criminals

[strange plinth]

the cathedral doesn't have electricity, though, and that would be fairly standard then

[next mica]

honestly yeah its possible, especially since marie doesnt understant the electronics in loid laboratory, but does understand that its technology, and not magic or something like that

[stray herald]

So much lore about sentients, ty roathe

And im just on VM no.6

[next mica]

wait arent the voice messages limited to one per day?

[stray herald]

Nah man. Its how many times you ahve killed roathe

So keep grinding infernum

[next mica]

i've killed him 5 or 6 time so far but only got 2 😢

[stray herald]

Bruh

[next mica]

well going back for the lore, thanks

[hazy prism]

Oh god I didn't know killing him gave more lines

[thick yacht]

If the Grineer queens were doing continuity, why do their bodies look so strange and mechanical (granted they are decaying but still)

[proper barn]

Okay they are orokin it's just for current Grinner they replace parts with prosthetics to live longer cuz of clone rot.

also they used to look the same cuz obvs.

[thick yacht]

I mean their bodies not looking orokin at all. Is that just due to prosthetics?

[proper barn]

Oh that's cuz they are in grinner bodies.

[strange plinth]

they've continuity'd into grineer bodies

[proper barn]

They can't steal a yuvan randomly.

Also Orokin aren't a special race but you might already know that.

[thick yacht]

I know

[hazy prism]

The prosthetics and augments they used to extend their life sort of imply they don't have great options for continuity, which is probably why they were so happy to have our Tenno in war within

[proper barn]

Also we would be a great Yuvan

Cuz of our Powers.

Also technically anyone could use continuity.

We just don't cuz of lack of access to kuva and not wanting to do that.

[next mica]

for ethical reason yeah

[thick yacht]

I don’t think the queens would pass up a chance to look like this if they could

[proper barn]

Also if the Yuvan is like too spirited or you get interrupted you might just die.

[proper barn]

I mean not everyone goes for the long arm blue skin thing but you could.

[next mica]

since they were ostracised by orokin because of their "twinness" they may would ,to be fair, that may be why they choose grineer for continuity instead of random ostrons or corpus (but that's my headcannon tho)

[stiff fable]

They go with Grineer because the Grineer submit to them automatically

No need to fight for control of the body

they don't look Orokin because they don't have the technology that let the Orokin sculpt their bodies. They would if they could, yeah.

[hazy prism]

I just assume the Operator was too big an opportunity to pass up for the Queens even with the risk associated with continuity with the operator

[next mica]

Yeah, but with grineer body's being so messed up they would likely need to do the continuity way more often, resulting in way higher kuva consumption no?

[stiff fable]

they have kuva, what they don't have is the tools to make taking an unwilling host easy

after all, there aren't any other Orokin drinking the stuff up

but what about Balla--
shh.

[next mica]

yeah I guess than having only two people requiring immortality make it way more manageable 🥲

even if grinner decay 10 times faster that's only 20 continuity per life cycle

[thick yacht]

Nihil

[stiff fable]

is a Cephalon technically

[next mica]

~~does that mean we could face a backup of ballas someday? 👀 ~~

[stiff fable]

if he copied himself.... yes actually?

Loid did it.

[next mica]

Wait, the robot loid is a cephalon copy of the OG loid?

[main crane]

Yes

Albrecht made Necraloid as a little helper for Loid (Loid hates it)

[next mica]

Yeah I knew that part, but not that it was litteraly loid 🥲

Even for cardinal dimanche that's messed up

[main crane]

Well, it was implied when Necraloid said "This is Loid, well the OG anyway"

[next mica]

Yeah thought that loid was the inspiration for necraloid, nothing more 🥲

[main crane]

The real Loid hates it because it's a copy of his consciousness

[next mica]

understandable yeah

[stray herald]

Fight no.7 and roathe did not give me another VM

[proper barn]

I mean they also have super Medicine anyway.

Like Loid gets lab grown skin new organs and eyes for Albretch.

[next mica]

I mean, artificially grown organs are basicly what grineer are anyway 🥲 no need to do it twice

[proper barn]

Their grown wrong though.

[stray herald]

Fight no 8, nothing

[next mica]

yeah, that's why I'm not sure than the queens are able to grow better organs

[pine orchid]

the grineer cloning technology iirc was mentioned to be imperfect, and each copy degrades little by little

and the current grineer are what centuries of degradation resulted in

I think it was compared to photocopies of a copy over and over again

[next mica]

yeah that's why the grineer want the crystals from the citrine mission, to extract the adn from the orokin inside so they can solve the issue of the degrading grineer adn

or at least try

~~wait was it a reference to jurassic park all along? ~~

[manic rover]

Loudness > Voices > RELL IS IN LYON'S MIND RAAH

[pine orchid]

I wish, I miss our Tennofriend qwq

[solemn lark]

err guys, somebody could explain to me please? so how is the new trio hooked into this patch's story?

like they just suddenly dialed Loyd and get to open a shop by the Cavia's place?

[next mica]

-# or it could be wally, trying to manipulate lyon, who would think than it's the devil speaking to him; explaining why he's hurting himself constantly to clean himself and keep the devil temptation far away

[manic rover]

They are not directly related to the events of the Old Peace other than Roathe. In the "background", there is a kind of civil war going in inside the Orokin Empire. Executor Nitokh and her army under her right hand man Roathe have allied themselves against the Orokin.

Albrecht and Roathe have a weird relationship we are meant to figure out

[pine orchid]

oh right I got another Roathe message, this time talking about Wally
||Basically in the conversation, Roathe is mocking ppl who believe Wally is a genuine god, and is instead saying Wally is a result of Conceptual embodiment. Drifter generally seems to disagree with Roathe's opinion based on the options, since you could say there's no way Conceptual Embodiment can make smth whose finger that can power spaceships leaping across space or say even if Albrecht may have manifested it, it does things conceptual embodied things shouldnt be able to do. to which Roathe replies with basically human imagination is more powerful than you may think in coming up with ways to destroy ourselves||

[solemn lark]

oh, thanks. it's in the same patch so I thought they'd be related

[manic rover]

They are and at the same time they are not

[solemn lark]

just finished the quest and it was like "yo, Loyd called, his bazaar just got a new shop opened" and I felt bamboozled

[manic rover]

A kind of small introductory quest the length of Lotus Eaters would be good though

Roathe is cool though. Best source of exposition dumps

[solemn lark]

yeap, would be nice to at least have that. Here suddenly I get "as drifter, you have these missions", and "as operator, another set". do them, get loots, see these guys for shop

[manic rover]

you are kinda meant to pick which quest to start between Old Peace and 1999 during the Lotus Eaters

[next mica]

When we think about it its kinda like the second part of the hex

[manic rover]

I'm still scared the hex will feel left out for a bit :(

[next mica]

nah with time travel we can come back the minute we left them (probably)

[solemn lark]

oh, I know why I feel wrong now. I walked straight to Loid's place without checking the 1999 pc

[next mica]

to be fair the pc tell you where to go but not much about why it's here

so far at least, kim might give us more infos as time pass

[solemn lark]

I mean, I was confused and didn't check the pc at all after the quest. Simply teleported to the Cavia's HQ. Saw a cutscene, walked in there and the trio talked as if we were introduced.

So I was like "what?" 😂

[pine orchid]

yeah the kim doesnt tell you there's a new message

which I think may be a bug? https://discord.com/channels/552966801558863896/1448547917827801192

but I did the same thing thinking oh the dark refractory was set in albrecht labs so I access it through the sanctum anatomica right only to be jumpscared by the devils triad 😂

[solemn lark]

yeah, kinda like reading a story book and somehow the intro episode got swapped out

[heady quest]

Damn crazy quest

[solemn lark]

I'm not sure what I need to smoke to talk to this Roathe guy now...

[next mica]

like, you're having trouble messaging him or you need to be in a specific state of mind to speak to him?

for the first option, seems like defeating him in descendia is supposed to give you voice messages with lore

[solemn lark]

I mean, like said first I bumped to him in the Cavia's domain, then my game's story went backward as I found the kim message on the 1999 pc

and suddenly I get a "Devil of Tau" sending me a message

clicked that and he talked to my drifter as if I know what it was

so now I feel like I picked a random quote from a textbook during an interview

and the professor suddenly treated me like I were an expert of the topic

[next mica]

was it a chat about helping him getting his mind/memories back and being a psy for him?

[solemn lark]

way I see it I guess he's asking me to do the new dungeon set to get something that could fix his memory?

yeah, that one. Also is there any introduction to the new dungeon? it simply pops up when I press esc in the operation base. But I have no idea why or how my character suddenly got access to that

the operator is basically reliving his old war memories? Ok I got it. but the drifter and the tower thing I have zero idea

[next mica]

I think descendia is basicly you going inside of roathe with the big engine the operator used for his own past?

[solemn lark]

here. So in my game I finished the quest. accidentally walked into the trio's cathedral - with them talking as if we were introduced. Then kim message popped up and this guy said he needs me to deal with some "contraption".

[next mica]

yeah the memory machine

[solemn lark]

I guess I clicked the game in another unintended way and skipped the introductions somehow

[next mica]

tbf the french version is probably more clear since "contraption" is remplaced by machine/engine

[next mica]

no no that's the intro

[solemn lark]

turn away for a few minutes to reset the chat. Let see if i can make sense out of it this time. Also, I swear, if I greeted any lady on social media this way I think they would call me insane...

The God-blessed anomaly. "The Lady". Finally, we speak at last. Come. The Derp of mankind has a proposal to make...

Sure... actually, lemme try this on my... nah I'm scared

[next mica]

wait just realised something

there's no electricity in the cathedral

so how are they contacting us

[lean garden]

using loids pc

[solemn lark]

or his nokia phone

[pine orchid]

tbf I think the Drifter does know even if we don't? or at least you can ask him about Devil of Tau when you tall to him in the Cathedral

[pine orchid]

they just elbowed him aside like the nerd (affectionate) he is Xd

[solemn lark]

yeah I mean, Drift does. But since I don't know I simply can't tell what he's talking about or what I should choose

here, in my game this is the first mention of the dark refractory, so... yeah simply don't get why they suddenly bring it up or if I missed a dialogue or smt

[next mica]

based to the context its the memory machine, but yeah no idea how we know about it

but to be fair it apply for everything linked to the dark refractory, old peace just drop us in it without telling us what it is exactly or how we found it, etc

[solemn lark]

eh, just checked the forums. seems like I'm not the only one

perhaps they were in a rush so that part had to be releashed prematurely. Well, maybe some fillers in the future

aside from Kim chat I guess everything is good. new dungeon, cosmetic, loots and gear sets. that's it

[next mica]

and lot of lore

[pine orchid]

yeah afaik there isn't really any introduction to the dark refractory

and idk Drifter's KIM message options have had times where they're talking about things we don't necessarily know about, like about the Cephalons and warframes (or maybe at least I dont know about because they're hidden in codex or some events I haven't seen yet)

[pale cedar]

I was expecting Loid to give one tbh considering the room for it is the bath Operator was in

[pine orchid]

yeah, there is a feedback thread post about how we were dropped into it so suddenly with no explanation

[next mica]

yeah, nothing in loid computer either

[pale cedar]

Can’t even read the one Loid convo again if you forgot it kinda forcing you to look on Kimulacrum if thats even updated yet

[next mica]

also not really related but kinda; what's up with the pets?

In the old peace quest, they're supposed to be back to their original state, but then nothing happen, did they go back to their current state or are we playing in the past?

[pine orchid]

I'm not sure what you're asking in particular, like why do we have our companions with us in the Perita Rebellion gamemode?

[next mica]

no no the cavia

[pine orchid]

OH! lmao I just understood it as Wally's influence caused them to revert to their Voidtongue temporarily

since the Murmur was really pounding down our door at the time

[next mica]

well thats kinda the issue, I assume it was temporary too 🥲

but to be fair? we cant be sure since the end of the quest dont really make us come back to the normal game (not sure if i'm clear)

[strange turtle]

It is

They’re not changed afterwards and there’s stuff from the Triad that lets us know they’re fine

[pine orchid]

is it not? I talked to the Cavia when I went to the Sanctum and they're back to normal so seems like it was a temporary reverting

[strange turtle]

Yeah thats what I said

[pine orchid]

I meant to reply to NovEve not you XD

[wise quarry]

guys in the game it says xx99, where is this pic from

[strange turtle]

Ah

[main crane]

That's from an old post

[next mica]

yeah that's why i'm not sure if we're playing after the quest or before 🥲

[pale cedar]

Website said 1899 then DE changed it

[main crane]

Therefore it's not canon anymore

[next mica]

Like, if the story is in standby until it officially continue in the second part of tau

[strange turtle]

Ehh

[pale cedar]

Could still be tbh

[main crane]

Fair

[pale cedar]

DE haven’t confirmed if it isn’t canon still or not

[strange turtle]

There was also a line that said it was Nineteenth century in the actual update, but that got removed too

[pine orchid]

I suppose it could be during, because you don't have to play the quest before the going to the sanctum and Loid in his KiM messenger mentioned lotus and operator are busy

there's only Roathe saying "I was delayed in the 19th century" left I think, but it could just be he was picked up at that time period by the other two

[strange turtle]

Has to be after

Loid was also busy with them at the time, sealed in the room

Only those two being busy means they’re just doing Perita stuff

[next mica]

they could be busy doing the preparation for the quest tho

hard to know since we dont know how we got in the memory engine in the first place 🥲

I think the OG kim conversation with loid may say something letting us know if it really happen after but cant go back on the conv 🥲

[thin badge]

Well one of Roathe's idle voice lines states what time their in saying 18th century

so they're actually in 1799

[strange turtle]

If they were busy doing preparations then Loid would also be busy helping them

Also

Its content that you can only get after a quest, safe to assume it does in fact, take place after the quest

[pine orchid]

yeah all I remember from it is that Loid mentioned the kid and lotus are busy, and he's like driiifteeeeer some weirdos just showed up at the lab and made their own little time-portal-dimension

[next mica]

yeah I totally agree that it would be the most logic path
But that's still assumptions 🥲

[pine orchid]

Time is a lil soupy it's fine XD

[next mica]

The most logic option is not always the true one in warframe

else drifter would be future version of operator /hj

[pale cedar]

Roathe apparently keeps trying to get Loid infected by suggesting he goes upstairs

[main crane]

Uhh what. I thought he wanted Loid to communicate with the Entrati family.

[hazy prism]

I don't think he's trying to get Loid infected per se, in his own weird way, he might be actually trying to get Loid to interact with the rest of the Entrati Family + Grandma

[main crane]

Unless I'm missing something

[pale cedar]

Going upstairs will get him Infected

[hazy prism]

Tbh we don't have too much to go off of what Roathe's whole deal is

[main crane]

We need to continue the kim conversation to see what he really wants

[hazy prism]

Yes, but that's not the goal, it's circumstantial. he says he wants to help Loid and the family to meet again, seemingly as a favour to us to "sweeten" the deal

[pine orchid]

I feel like there's ways to inoculate from the infestation now, since in Deimos bounties we have the Grineer and Corpus defense targets

sooo Loid will prooobably be fine Xd

[pale cedar]

Only if he uses his gun

He did beat the Infestation back before

But that would’ve been before the bomb

[pine orchid]

I wonder if maybe Roathe's goal is to unify the Deimos factions, in order to prepare for the war against Wally and maybe to help with getting us to Tau
Euleria doesn't know her father is still alive, she doesn't seem to know about Wally either, so maybe we need Loid to talk to them about what's been going on in Albrecht's secret lab?
bcs ofc Albrecht would do anything but actually communicate directly to his family and lover

[brittle siren]

So yeah seem like Sentient has upper hand

[pale cedar]

Yeah, even with Warframes created they did

See Grendel Prime trailer

[mystic lynx]

what was the reasoning behind why wf are quite effective against sentient compared to other orokin tech at the time

[feral cape]

Warframes are bio mechanical and immune to sentient hacking

[mystic lynx]

thx

[main crane]

"We were forced to older means. Not by circuits nor light... but by flesh and disease."

[hazy prism]

Does anyone know if the Roathe VM's are tied to how many regular KIM convos you have with him

E.g 2 VM's per completed KIM convo

[pale cedar]

I heard you get them if you do the final floor of his thing

[marsh scroll]

https://www.twitch.tv/zydrathexendrien/clip/CarefulSpotlessCurryPJSugar-kdBXGI0TiqWJE-iw because its kinda spoiler? did anyone had this bugg aswell XD?

[brittle siren]

i wish we can replay old peace

I want to try go to the elevator before Margulis leave

[hazy prism]

I should have specified besides finishing floor 21, I was wondering because someone here got to 6 VM's but I have only gotten 4 VM's but I missed 1 day of KIM with Roathe so if that was the difference

[marsh scroll]

tryed that to but i think they leave only when u come near

[brittle siren]

do you guy think that the song Adis sing is create by Praghasha?

because when Adis sing, there is a distant female voice seperate from Adis voice

[rugged ruin]

Question WHAT THE hell happened to margulis eyes

[stiff beacon]

some tenno burned them out

[pale cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-trailer-cinematic-trailer-grineer-tenno-gif-23972872

[rugged ruin]

Tell me names

[lean garden]

might even be you

[opaque zenith]

not said

[rugged ruin]

I will go ahead and send me and them to hell

[pale cedar]

But it could’ve been you

[rugged ruin]

Can’t be because we met her with her eyes like that so it must have happened when we were going to get uriel

[lean garden]

homie

this isnt the first time you've met margulis

she's the one who was with you before the tenno was in the warframe project

[rugged ruin]

I know

[opaque zenith]

tbf, traumatized kids which adults constantly tried to kill them in the trauma ship

[pale cedar]

She’s your adoptive mother

[rugged ruin]

I keep forgetting that is a prelude update

[opaque zenith]

kinda reasonable reaction at the specific time

[lean garden]

so whats the confusion? One of tenno, might even be you burned her eyes out long ago

[hazy prism]

Not necessarily, but Roathe mentions the Sentients singing to do something to the tech onboard a Orokin warship. So it's implied their "singing" is a form of tech manipulation

[brittle siren]

ok so I just watched other streamer video, that if you choose Margulis at the end of New War, when OP say sorry at the end of Old Peace, she said: We can finally begin to heal

But if you choose Natah, she would say sth like: "she is a victim just like us"

[hazy prism]

That's interesting, that's a nice detail they added for that scene

[dire current]

Choosing Lotus returns the 'She is a victim just like us' line

Natah returns the line of ||'We have already had our revenge'||

[manic rover]

do we consider the wiki to be a reliable source?
because if this is true then Roathe IS A BOTTOM

[strange turtle]

When it’s cited, yes

[ashen pulsar]

cooked by void kids, we don’t know how many or what happened but probably an accident

[strange turtle]

But you can also just check for yourself using kimulacrum

[manic rover]

I mean.. it's pretty evident that they may have had a relationship

I want to believe it is going to draw parallels with Ballas-Margulis

Executor having an affair with subordinate

[ashen pulsar]

Didn’t he say something like“Her beauty was elegant because it was obvious”

[ashen pulsar]

except in this case, they’re both major assholes instead of just one of them

[opaque zenith]

Yes and no, citations and gameplay info are reliable, story is... they're player theory unless citated anyways, just with a lot of editors and lore nerds (affectionaly) in it

[manic rover]

Considering it's specifically pointed out that his soldiers turned into Uriels to honor him, he may have been a rather good leader

[ashen pulsar]

His soldiers were forced to turn into uriels and he didn’t care

maybe tactically a good leader, but definitely not a compassionate one

[ashen pulsar]

in this case, there are at least feelings going one way. I don’t know if they were reciprocated.

but probably, I haven’t done much of the KIM chatting yet

[opaque zenith]

The yes and no was for the wiki, Roathe is totally a bottom cause my Drifter will NOT give up the top

Sometimes i wonder what happend to "kepping my inner thoughs"... oh well

[manic rover]

He said "They turned themselves into Devils.. To Honor me"

[brittle siren]

oh my mistake

[main geyser]

How do I learn all the lore details? I played the new quest and I see everyone understanding things I don't even conceive. Is there any lore hidden outside main quests? How do I approach the lore from scratch with steps?

[brazen seal]

yes, the main quests only give u glimpse of the whole story
if u really wanna know the whole lore u need to go out of your way to find it

[opaque zenith]

There's lore all over the place: colectibles (fragments, scans,cristal fishes?) envirioment, past events and args, a reliable lore channnel would be nescessary for the whole stuff, including the unavailable stuff

[main geyser]

So it is hidden behind texts in codex after scanning?

[opaque zenith]

And secret audios inside the texts! is a lore inception

[blissful merlin]

A really good place to visit for lore is Orokin archives. Especially for past events and stuff.

[stiff beacon]

guess albrecht did an iron man

[pine orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/obadiah-stane-tony-stark-was-able-to-build-this-in-a-cave-with-a-box-of-scraps-tony-stark-box-of-scraps-iron-man-gif-23963164

[lean garden]

well, turns out

neither were affairs

[lean garden]

albrecht? no that was roathe

[sweet wadi]

It occurred to me that Marie’s gratuitous French and Lettie’s spanish imply that there is no void tech universal translation going on. Language from 1999 is completely identical to the post-Orokin Sol system’s dominant language.

[cunning tapir]

Sometimes Lettie drops some spanish while Aoi does Japanese.

[versed terrace]

Okay so
I came up with a dumb theory
What if the drifter is going to become Excalibur Prime?

[pale cedar]

"We're immune to the Infestation but they still try to kill us."

[sweet wadi]

I doubt it for the simple reason that void-stuff is anathema to the infestation, yeah

They fear it

[versed terrace]

Aw :(
Ok, ty for confirming drifter isn’t gonna become a warframe

[versed terrace]

Also
Didn’t a certain singer say u were dead?/j

[pale cedar]

If we weren’t immune we would’ve been messed up by the Infested Madness

[sweet wadi]

I got better

[versed terrace]

Are you still confused whether you’re the sunshine or the moon at night?

[sweet wadi]

Technically I am both because the moon is reflecting sunlight

[versed terrace]

Nice

[sweet wadi]

I’m pretty sure Umbra is the canonical ‘Prime’ in terms of the first Excalibur, in any case. The excalibur prime frames are just high-quality models.

[lean garden]

Umbra? First Excalibur? Naw

Prime grade adjacent maybe

but the first excal? naw

[sweet wadi]

What makes you so sure?

[pale cedar]

Umbra was a Dax near the end of the Old War infested for learning of Ballas’ scheme which was also near the end while Excalibur base was the first frame ever made

[sweet wadi]

Ah, true. I hadn’t remembered the exact chronology of the sacrifice flashbacks.

Though in any case, ‘prime’ frames are more like ‘perfected’ than ‘originals’. Some prime frames are the first, but others like Lavos and protea are explicitly the result of improving on the original.

[lean garden]

well, to put it in me own words, Umbra catching ballas trying to betray the Orokin to the Sentients would very much be a post old-peace thing, which means we know with utmost certainty that the excal prime existed then, and thus existed before Umbra ever did

[opaque zenith]

The sacrifice:
[] = personal notes
Ballas: "Yet you couldn't understand why I'd give my secrets to our enemy [in the war period]. How could I betray my own kind? But you have never had to sacrifice your love for Faith [after Margulis death]. Imagine. To live, forever, with only one memory: seeing the one you love, die."

Ballas: "But you won't have to imagine. A lovingly cultured Infestation [already beveloped enough helminth] swarms within your blood. Your transformation has begun, reshaping you into a sacred surrogate of the unholy Tenno[already ate the children]... A Warframe with but a Single. Burning. Memory. It is... a miracle!"

[sweet wadi]

Got it

[opaque zenith]

Sry for the wall, the quote is just that long

[sweet wadi]

Np

[lean garden]

Ah yes! to put this into perspective, we know margulis ||dies after the old peace, so that first line can only place umbra after the old peace||

[eternal sand]

The flowers on tau were said to be Xeno-Flora. Aka alien. But are they? They move unnaturally, have the ability to give the sentients individual thought and grow around the world seed. Once the world seed is destroyed all of them die.

Is it possible that the flowers aren't Xeno-Flora at all but we're instead created with the intent to give the sentients individual thought to jumpstart the whole rebellion situation for Ballas' grand plan?

[sweet wadi]

Possible, but they grow around other areas as well. The world seeds terra-form them away rather than support them, afaik.

[main crane]

Nah. It's confirmed that it's the first known alien lifeform discovered outside of the Origin System.

[sweet wadi]

And giving anyone free will when they could be perfectly obedient isn’t usually Ballas’ style.

[pine orchid]

apparently the only alien lifeform they found in Tau too

[fast dew]

Nup, its just a weird coincidence.

Only true alien life

[sweet wadi]

Maybe it’s like coral in Armored core? The flora itself has some degree of sapience, or at least the potential for it, that imprints onto the sentients.

[fast dew]

I personally think the xenoflora are connected to the sentient's evolving design.

[sweet wadi]

A tangent, but I want to complement Roathe’s characterization.

Specifically his scorn for faith. Roathe isn’t an atheist, he’s personally offended by the idea of anything being better than him.

His behavior summarizes the entire Orokin philosophy; that a God Complex should be the norm, that personal vanity and desire is the only metric one needs to view the universe. To acknowledge that morality may exist outside what you decide it to be is to imply that you do not have complete control of your life, that you are weak.

Roathe equates a moral compass to subservience and ignorance, because he’s been raised in a society that teaches egoism as the only truth.

[lean garden]

I would like to caveat that I think roathe doesnt think that there isnt anything better than him

that might be the usual orokin caricature

but not roathe

he can be, if you help him, a properly penitent man

[mystic lynx]

Are orokins like roathe and albercht just small or is ballas just big for no reason
Excluding the mutated entrati family at least

[sweet wadi]

With help, yes. But his initial demeanor is very much the classic Orokin despot. That deep down he can realize what he was taught is wrong is seemingly unique to him though, I agree.

[lean garden]

I uh, dont think its a he can realise

its a he has realised

what you might be able to do is make the heretic of xata, cease blaspheming

[pale cedar]

They can change their own height not everyone wants to be as tall as Ballas

[mystic lynx]

Wich one is the normal tho
Tall like balls and possibly the family
Or small like roathe and albercht

[sweet wadi]

There is no normal, Orokin had designer bodies.

Anything they wanted to be they could jump into, like changing clothes. Only the clothes are a person that needs to be tortured to the point of ego death.

[pine orchid]

The Seven seem to prefer taller I thinks, if going by how the statues of the Seven in the Academy are all about the same height/build except for the one who we suspect is Karissh

[strange turtle]

well it certainly isn’t Tuvul

[pine orchid]

also, does anyone have the names of all the Seven? someone said it was mentioned in the hype stream but I'm not sure where

[sweet wadi]

Ordan never actually killed any Orokin, iirc, right? All he did was ruin their current bodies?

[fast dew]

As in physically big?

They aren't supposed to be. Ballas isn't big either, he was normal sized

The entrati family are the outliers

Nihil is only that big cuz its not physical

[pale cedar]

He did kill them
But they body swapped

[pine orchid]

maybe the Entrati being in Deimos also has smth to do with their size, since the Deimos strain speicfically is the make things big strain iirc

[fast dew]

It is.

That is exactly why.

[sweet wadi]

That’s what I mean, yeah. They didn’t stay dead.

[fast dew]

Also. Ive been made aware of how loid stands in this cutscene. Broski is serving

[pale cedar]

That Orokin didn’t get that lucky when we striked though

[pine orchid]

I do remember Ballas being tall, but that was after he was amalgamified and we were a child so it may have also been perspective

[sweet wadi]

We knew about it presumably, and how to make sure death stuck.

[pale cedar]

Loid should’ve just got us out so we kicked the Murmur out then got back in the bath

[fast dew]

He got taller after the amalgamisation, but he still is normalish

[eternal sand]

The origin systems straightest man

[fast dew]

He may be a lil too short to reach it

[pale cedar]

He’s the Butler he’d find a way

[fast dew]

How some people be thinking Albrecht n loid's relationship is 💔

[fast dew]

Like a broom? Grab a broom and hook the child with the end

[sweet wadi]

I think they still need to keep kuva on hand and have servants to complete the process for it to work. Which is why trying to execute Ballas was a genuine threat.

[lean garden]

Ballas Tuvul Aventus Karishh Nitokh Scarne Tormis

[fast dew]

Nitokh probably gets removed, and Nihil replaces her

[sweet wadi]

Loid needs a better man, NGL

[pine orchid]

thank you!

[fast dew]

Why do people think this 😭 i honestly don't think its that bad

Shit happens in a relationship, i don't think Albrecht needing to leave is such a bad thing that Loid needs to stop

As if loid isn't any worse

[eternal sand]

Their relationship is so hetero that loid doesn't even exist in warframe China, instead replaced by a state accepted character

[fast dew]

Yeah actually what is that like in chinaframe? I don't actually know

Or is it subtle enough to pass

[west oasis]

Was hunhow just enjoying being a farmer during the old peace

[pine orchid]

They were just best friends, maybe even sworn brothers~ /j

[sweet wadi]

“I do so love growing flowers. I hope nothing ever kills them all.”

[eternal sand]

Every third line Loid has to talk about how attracted he is to women and feels no romantic feelings for men. Like some absurd conversation therapy

[pale cedar]

Actually Loid should’ve just shot them himself he has a gun

[sweet wadi]

That’s… sad as hell

[fast dew]

Instead of raising Euleria he talks about loving her/j (plottwist, its how a father loves their daughter)

I stand by the theory loid helped raise her

[eternal sand]

China wanted so hard to make Loid straight that they put voice lines where he had relations with the only female character in cavia. But they didn't read the lore and unknowingly shipped him with a weird deer thing. Tagfer is somehow even more depressed

[strange turtle]

The “saner” ones of the Seven watching from the grave as Nitokh’s replacement starts trying to punish people for the most meaningless shit (it’s every damn time with that slot’s Executors)

[rough rose]

is the reason Lotus wants us to remember sso we can find the map to tau?

[opaque zenith]

To the one who answers that SPOILERS TEXT PLS!

[lean garden]

From gay to furry, good job

[proper star]

The Chinese only server?

[stiff beacon]

dang the chinese dub of the game be wild

[proper star]

I'm Chinese and I'm really not against play the entire game or watch every Chinese stream just to confirm--

[pine orchid]

probably only the Whisper in The Walls and maybe 1999 questlines, but I do kinda want to know is it true??

[ashen pulsar]

also says that he condemned every future soldier he had to be turned into that thing. idk if all of them decided to be devils one day

[lean garden]

They definitely were very loyal to him

for whatever reason

[ashen pulsar]

sure but dax cant refuse commands

from someone with kuva

[pale cedar]

Actually, why are those Dax attacking us if they're servants of the Orokin

[ashen pulsar]

nitokh commands

[lean garden]

the orokin get their troops to attack each other all the time lmao

[lean garden]

yes, but Roathe didnt just have dax

[ashen pulsar]

true ig

wait can grineer get framed

[lean garden]

maybe?

it is prime grineer

[ashen pulsar]

there were humans too ofc

[pale cedar]

I'd think 2 separate commands would cancel each other out or something like that

[lean garden]

nah

[ashen pulsar]

but still, turning into uriel probably wouldn't have happened nearly as much if all of the soldiers fully understood what would happen.

[lean garden]

you realise that the orokin giving the commands wouldnt be in shouting distance

and why would the other party's troops listen to someone who's not their master

[ashen pulsar]

and there was probably some form of peer pressure at play as well

[pale cedar]

Dax consider separate Orokin masters? Thought they just got posted to a position at random

[lean garden]

even if they were posted at random

obviously theres a chain of command to an orokin

[sly pagoda]

if they must obey an Orokin odds are if they are transfered they are told that is their new commander

[eager dragon]

Are the KIM recordings from Roathe the same for everyone or is the order random?

Just curious.

[fast dew]

Same for everyone, its dependent on descendia runs

[eager dragon]

So I'm 2 behind everyone, sadge.

Also dependent to what degree?

I killed Roathe 21 times the moment I unlocked it for the Honoraria

Is that enough times or do I need more murder?

[brazen seal]

same
lol

[eager dragon]

(Assuming this is known, of course)

[brazen seal]

21 runs in descendia before even saying hello to roathe in KIM

poor guy

[eager dragon]

Oof. I did say hello.

Then immediately when to slaughter.

[hollow siren]

Changes based on the amount of times you've beat him (presumably resets weekly)

He comments on how many times you've fought

[eager dragon]

Oh, I meant the voice chat messages in the Chat

[hollow siren]

ah right

[eager dragon]

So far he has been sending me 2 per day, but I only have 2 days to go from and I haven't seen anything from other people regarding the content, other than the fact that they've seen it.

[hollow siren]

I missed day 1 so I got my first two VMs today

||Nitokh bath time and talking about the Tau rail||

[brazen seal]

the second day talk is peak

[eager dragon]

Same, from yesterday

[brazen seal]

||he saying he reverse engineering the helminth strain||

[eager dragon]

So probably the same order

[hollow siren]

yep

[brazen seal]

I'm lowkey impressed with roathe ngl

[fast dew]

||The concept of summoning someone to a bathchamber. Shit is so odd.|| 😭

[hollow siren]

wonder if it's different if you have Play All Messages disabled

[fast dew]

Roathe worries me.

[eager dragon]

Considering I do not have that, I'm assuming that is 3rd day? For me second day (today) was OROKIN and HUBRIS

[hollow siren]

Master x servant fanfics brewing up as we speak

[brazen seal]

it wasn't a VM
just a normal chat afair

[eager dragon]

Ah, I haven't talked to him that much, other than the "Devil of Tau" dialogue option.

[fast dew]

We got nothin with loid n Albrecht, i don't think we'll get much w roathe/nitokh

Too busy selfshipping w roathe

[lyric shale]

Guys, why The devils triad have no lore? They just spawn with no context

[brazen seal]

KIM

[hollow siren]

Call me the Tauron academy the way I- (joke cancelled by the authorities)

[fast dew]

They do just. Kinda do this

The lore does get added by their kimchats

[eager dragon]

They do just not directly. It's in the KIM chats, a bit in dialogue.

Especially Roathe.

[lyric shale]

Ooh

[fast dew]

But it does feel really random

[brazen seal]

https://tenor.com/view/frantic-studying-reading-exams-exams-week-gif-7530000

[hollow siren]

I do wish they did have some more tho yeah

[eager dragon]

Agreed

[tall echo]

apparently that was her whole style tho tbf

[hollow siren]

Have the cutscene show the portal appearing, not just a repeat of their reveal trailer

[eager dragon]

I think it was just insufficient dev time

[brazen seal]

I 100% expected the devil triad to hold back the murmur during the murmur's invasion during the quest

it would be absolute peak

[eager dragon]

I'm surprised it wasn't an echos update similar to the roundtable

[hollow siren]

they probably didn't want to split it to 2026

[eager dragon]

Honestly I was half expecting the Triad to be delayed before the Old Peace

[tall echo]

yeah roundtable was bc of a major feature getting delayed

all that got delayed this time was wall running

[eager dragon]

Also cool to see Father's real name

[tall echo]

ye

[eager dragon]

Minor but cool

[fast dew]

Its so neat

[tall echo]

roathe out here deadnaming 2/4 entrati

[fast dew]

He is aware of the grandchildren, he must just not know their names

[tall echo]

funny that he respects grandma's name being given away tho

[eager dragon]

Honestly can't wait to see the sort of lore he'll drop in the later KIM chats

[fast dew]

He doesn't like it, but he doesn't hate her for it

[tall echo]

yeah but

he uses the old names of mother and father

[brazen seal]

will roathe finally gossip all the family's doings when they were orokins

[tall echo]

he calls grandma grandma

[brazen seal]

[fast dew]

"I heard the entrati family had a butler the patriarch was messing with!"
– nitokh to roathe maybe

[eager dragon]

Anyways, because I missed the day 1 discussion to avoid spoilers, what is the current conclusion regarding the Xenoflora, it's connection to the war/peace, and the sentience of the Sentients?

From my understanding, the Xenoflora didn't so much give sentience as it "shared" it - gave autonomy.

[tall echo]

xenoflora gives sentients their own mind disconnected from the angy hive mind

[brazen seal]

I wonder if that means the hive mind were trapped by the sentients after they got their sentience ?

[tall echo]

for a while

a very short while

[brazen seal]

the old peace while

~1hour

[tall echo]

few days or months probably

[brazen seal]

sad that we didn't got info abt where were hunhow or erra
or where did ballas go

[tall echo]

guessing mars or lua

[sweet wadi]

From the hivemind’s PoV the flora is a dangerous drug that makes it disassociate.

[pale cedar]

Ballas would've just went back to Origin

[sweet wadi]

The closest equivalent would be if you touched a flower and suddenly your hand started to act on its own.

[frosty latch]

why did Galastra want war?
when is this quest in the timeline? after the events of 1999?

[sweet wadi]

No clue and yes.

[pale cedar]

It's alongside the events of 1999

What Operator has been doing

[torpid quiver]

basically, as drifter was getting in a relationship and the power of friendship, the operator was re-living past trauma voluntarily

[brazen seal]

[pine orchid]

drifter getting unlimited game while operator getting ptsd 😔

[pale cedar]

Drifter deserves it with how life treated them

[sly pagoda]

in the timeline this quest is during the old war.

during a period of peace attempt.

though revisited in memories rather than time travel

[sweet wadi]

Tbf drifter had already gone through the ptsd cycle in Duviri

Is it ever explained why the operator needed to do this? Lotus insists on putting him through the trauma simulator while Loid actively explains how dangerous it is.

[pine orchid]

not that I remember, I think it was just mentioned we're looking for something in our memories but unsure what?

[sweet wadi]

I get that Lotus has done a lot for us and I appreciate it, but sometimes it feels like she just yeets her child soldiers at problems.

[prime holly]

I completed the quest and I started to have some questions:
|| Margulis was at Tau.... in the middle of sentients... when according the CREWMAN Simaris log, she was executed literally before the green light of the sentient project. How can this be possible?!||

[cloud igloo]

Its simply to "learn the truth of the tau", no?

[silk atlas]

It doesn't say it was Margulis that was executed in that entry, just that a female Archimedian was killed.

So it just can't be Margulis who is being talked about in the Detron Crewman entry.

[prime holly]

|| "She was the greatest scholar of genetics who ever lived"||

[silk atlas]

And it was never said that Margulis's field (or one of them) is genetics

[brazen seal]

And where does it say that margulis has that title ?

[silk atlas]

And also, that doesn't change the fact that you see Margulis alive after the Sentients make it to Tau, so that just proves it's not Margulis there being executed in the entry.

They never said it was her and assuming it was is just a theory that is now disproven by the new info.

[prime holly]

"The Orokin murdered Margulis - used her work to create 'Transference'. Your mind - projected into a surrogate, strong enough to withstand your power. It felt like waking up, but it was just a lucid - second dream" - Lotus during The Second Dream

according this quote, did they use their work after their execution or even before?

[silk atlas]

Yeah that one is weird.

[cloud igloo]

Wasnt tgat titania's?

[brazen seal]

Bad wording ig
Bc based on rhino's codex the tenno have innate transference
Which margulis did create tho was the somatic links afair

[pale cedar]

Margulis made the therapy method

[cloud igloo]

Side note, was it established what the "tipping point" was that caused the night of the naga drums?

[silk atlas]

No, that one Transferenced herself so hard she became one with the trees

[cloud igloo]

Right... My bad g

[prime holly]

https://tenor.com/view/me-as-superhero-gif-15494496

[vale rivet]

This is cannon now

[brazen seal]

Btw
Can we even call transference projecting ur mind into a warframe as what happened in rhino's codex instead of the usual transference stuff that we are used to ?
That we become one with the Warframe

[pale cedar]

Margulis dying led Ballas to swapping sides and planning their death

That's the bit many players miss
Ballas planned the whole thing

[white goblet]

So now we know the reason Lotus went with Ballas in apostasy was because she didn't have the blooms?

how is she able to keep her sentience now? is there a different way?

[pale cedar]

No, it's because Ballas reprogrammed her

[wise quiver]

This is where stuffs confusing, because on one hand we have lore stating the sentients became self aware and broke free of orokin control "on the way to tau", but then we have this flower which is...yeah.

There is a lot of moving parts that we aren't given enough explanation about how they interact.

[white goblet]

maybe maybe

The sentients became sentient, but the bloom helps them resist reprogramming

this would also explain how ballas was able to reprogram lotus, she didnt have bloom and he's the only one who knew how

[silk atlas]

I still really don't think it's all that hard to get. The hivemind became aware that the Orokin were going to screw things up, and the flowers give each individual Sentient its own free will to stop the war. Lotus's individuality came from here being brainwashed constantly as well has having almost no contact with the rest of Sentients for the longest time.

[cloud igloo]

soo like "cult deprogramming" kinda?

[silk atlas]

Oh my God that's a really good way to put it

If the "cult" was worms in your brain that constantly told you to kill all humans, at least.

[cloud igloo]

:P theres only so far an analogy can take you

also re: xenoflora

It feels like a "drug" of sorts

[strange turtle]

Also based on TWW

[iron pond]

Can i get a reminder what exactly are archon shards

[silk atlas]

Nothing more than what the description for them says, really

[iron pond]

Dam

[ashen pulsar]

I mean, it is. When whatever it is enters a sentient’s body, it has a physical effect. That’s what a drug is.

[strange turtle]

Weird anti-entropic crystals that let the archons revive over and over

[ashen pulsar]

shards that somehow animate archons and give power to warframes

[teal glacier]

We also have Xaku's existence

And hold on... bi poly horse girl?

Excuse me? HUH??

[proper barn]

Go listen to dagaths lore in the dojo.

[teal glacier]

Noted.

Yknow I was putting off getting her

[copper mountain]

It’s true but that description does not conjure the right mental image at all

Far more accurate to instead say bi poly faceless spirit of vengeance and horses

[proper barn]

Also ticker is the trans woman. We love Ticker.

[teal glacier]

But now I think i will

[teal glacier]

AND YES WE DO.

[proper barn]

Well she becomes that but she wa a horse girl

Still is.

@teal glacier have you talked to Varzia?

Varzia is fun.

[teal glacier]

Varzia concerns me.

[proper barn]

Lmao

She seemingly

[teal glacier]

Im unsure if shes more interested in Teshin or Maroo.

[proper barn]

Is gonna date/settle down with Maroo.

[copper mountain]

Varzia only has two modes:

• Ad read
• Thirsty

[proper barn]

Teshin is kinda spoken for.

Also she talks about Maroo in a very romantic way.

[teal glacier]

True

She always seemed a bit freaky towards bro

Up until

Yknow

[proper barn]

@teal glacier anyway go to your dojo you can listen to dagaths story from G-ma. You don't need to build her or anything.

It's in the dagath room

At like the flame or whatever.

[iron pond]

So how does helminth subsume warframes?

[woven coyote]

eat

[iron pond]

No and lore wise

[smoky solstice]

does this imply there's something above the executors?

I thought the executors were the rulers, the seven

[proper barn]

How far are you

Into the game? @iron pond

[iron pond]

Did old peace

[proper barn]

Okay so warframes are people that are infested.

Helminth is the base for all warframes infestation

So it can re-absorb them if we want it to.

It already was maintaining our warframes for us.

[misty salmon]

Looks like.. yes. But it could be a somewhat figureheaded position with all the actual power effectively controlled by the executor council.... or it could be a 40K thing with the emperor actually being dead and nobody's to know.

[smoky solstice]

so there are deathless emperors

and below them, the seven, the executor council, also deathless

[proper barn]

@iron pond this make sense?

[iron pond]

Yeah it does

[proper barn]

Also like I said helminth is the Infested strain used make warframes.

[woven coyote]

so yeah it eats and digests them

[smoky solstice]

ig it makes sense now that I think about it

[wise quiver]

There is a line somewhere, either in an interview or the like, where the Emperors are kept in stasis so they don't breath the same air as "the lessers" as it were, and they appointed the Executors to enforce their will. The only time the emperors kinda came out was for the Naga Drum incident.

[misty salmon]

Could also be an interpretation that the seven were, in their original bodies, the emperors and the first orokin to use kuva for immortality. Their power and identity has been vested into later bodies as executors.

[smoky solstice]

the rulers of an empire being called "executors" has always been weird, so the rulers technically being someone else and simply vesting their power in an executive body makes sense

[smoky solstice]

oh, interesting, definitely sounds like the reason is BS and that they're kept in stasis to not be able to go against the executors based on this

[misty salmon]

but it seems unlikely that immortality was exclusive to the seven. as we have a number of other people who mention using the kuva.

[wise quiver]

It was used, primarily, by the "Orokin Elite". Case in point, the Yuvan Theatre...

[strange turtle]

The Seven (and presumably emperors) had their own special site

Which necessitates there being other Kuva takers for the normal Yuvan theatres to actually be used

That and all the other evidence like Shiraxis said

[wise quiver]

Also, Albrecht wasn't...an executor was he?

He had access to Continuity but gave up on it after the whole void bell thing.

[smoky solstice]

nah he couldn't have been

[woven coyote]

oh yeah just remembered did anyone translate the murals in la cathedrale?

[misty salmon]

as far as we know he wasn't. His name isn't known as one of the ones during old peace or the fall of the empire, or one of the statues... we don't know if those are historically the only executors though.

[smoky solstice]

especially because his whole story was him being a laughing stock in the scientific community before discovering the true potential of the void, and even if an executor was just a complete idiot, there's certainly no way the scientific community wouldn't pretend they're a genius anyway

[wise quiver]

Well they were immortal so it seems...like one of those "for life" kinda positions.

[strange turtle]

Yeah they weren’t exactly the type to abdicate

[smoky solstice]

albrecht had a lot to prove with his void experiments and an executor just wouldn't have those kinds of stakes

[wise quiver]

Actually wait, how did the orokin, the executors, deal with...fellow executors who did wrong?

[misty salmon]

or until one of the others/an upwardly mobile orokin offed them for getting in the way.

[woven coyote]

we have no reason to believe continuity was limited to only executors

[wise quiver]

Like, case in point, the whole treaty thing that's going on?

[smoky solstice]

I mean we know now that orokin houses clashed and fought with each other, using dax soldiers too

[wise quiver]

I know, I was using albrecht as evidence of "it wasn't exclusive to executors"

[wise quiver]

There is a difference between an orokin house and Executor. Like, how does one become an Executor is the question.

[smoky solstice]

I mean there's 7 executors and there will always be 7, there probably isn't some sort of succession procedure

they can't die so there's no reason to have one

[wise quiver]

They can be killed though, as we know of the tenno and I'm pretty sure the Jade Light can kill them as well.

[silk atlas]

The reason tehy were untouchable was because of Continuity and because they controlled all of the military

The only reason the Orokin fell (like most dictatorships) is because their army had enough and turned on them

[smoky solstice]

yeah but here's the situation - you can't send over dax soliders to assassinate them, so in order to kill them, they'd have to do it themselves, which is probably impossible to ever do because it's the nuclear option, since it opens the door to the killer being killed as well. It was impossible for them to be killed, then the Tenno came along, and suddenly there were soldiers powerful enough who didn't have the same restrictions as the Dax

[wise quiver]

They were untouchable from the mass population but say one executor actually really messes up and the others decide to deal with them...

[misty salmon]

I wonder if the names would be passed along with the offices to hide the death. "Executor Tuval has been assassinated, this is the new Executor Tuval, if anyone asks they went through continuity early."

[wise quiver]

Like, I imagine, because dictators gonna dictate, there has to be some kind of proceedure to 'legally' remove an executor from their position and replace them with someone.

[strange turtle]

A Dax might not be able to “raise” arms against them, but some other troop or even just a guy could just fine

[smoky solstice]

so the Tenno killed them, but aside from the Tenno, there's no way they realistically die, I mean there's even emergency continuity procedures in case one comes close, so why even have a succession procedure

[misty salmon]

which would in turn make the historical record, predictably for the orokin, completely useless to figure things out.

[smoky solstice]

yeah but how is just a guy getting anywhere close to the seven

[wise quiver]

Incase the majority of the seven want to remove one or more of the others.

Because, you legit expect me to believe the seven, Ballas, got along well enough with all the other executors to the point they didn't try to remove them from power?

For the countless millennia they have ruled?

[smoky solstice]

no, what I'm saying is that they know they don't want to do that, since that's the only realistic way they lose power and therefore they have a vested interest in not opening the door up to this type of thing happening and to keep the status quo going of lower level clashes

they don't want something to be done, they send soldiers to impede that

I mean all of what I'm saying is conjecture, but we also don't have evidence pointing one way or another

[strange turtle]

With a gun, or a sword, or whatever else

They don’t need to fight off the unwanted Seven’s Dax, they just need to do the one thing the rest’s Dax can’t

[smoky solstice]

yeah but how are they getting into a position to shoot or injure one of the seven

[silk atlas]

If you want to keep your part in the Seven with your effective immortality you keep your trap shut about it and hope that you're not the one singled out in that scenario.

[smoky solstice]

the only people coming anywhere close to them are 1. orokin or 2. dax guards

[wise quiver]

Anarchs did it.

[silk atlas]

Because that's information that can be used against you from the guy you're trying to kill.

[strange turtle]

Incase the majority of the seven want to remove one or more of the others.

Did you just, forget the conversation topic

[silk atlas]

You also don't know how on-board the rest of the Seven are when it comes to wanting to killing who you would want.

[pure plaza]

So Operator gets woken back up to murder Orokin then put back to sleep?

[smoky solstice]

what, the whole transport defense thing we do? the whole part where Ballas was obviously not at all scared of whether he would be killed, the transport being ready to perform continutiy on us in case things went wrong and there being a pretty high chance even that was staged?

[smoky solstice]

I already explained why the seven have a vested interest to not engage in assassinations or other forms of removal

[wise quiver]

Keep in mind the orokin don't fear death anymore, they've lived for millennia and been reborn in countless bodies, of course he isn't scared.

[smoky solstice]

I mean keep in mind that yeah, these people have known each other for millenia

[fast dew]

They'd regularly attack each other

[smoky solstice]

they're probably just used to having each other around anyway too

[smoky solstice]

yeah but that's exactly my point, if there was a way for them to die or be removed, why wouldn't they be more paranoid about it

to me it seems like they're not, because it's functionally impossible, because the rest of the seven wouldn't want to open the door to something like this and instead engage in other forms of interference in another's ambitions

[wise quiver]

Ego. We also don't see much about the executors, I think we have only really seen/heard from...two? Torvul and Ballas, right? We know of others but not really interacted with them or anything. So we can't say there aren't Paranoid executors.

[smoky solstice]

yeah but where does the ego come from? it comes from the fact that they've lived for thousands of years without having to worry about death

[wise quiver]

I don't see how 7 people could agree to this kind of system of "I can never be removed from power."

[smoky solstice]

I guess? but then ballas just sounds like an idiot

[wise quiver]

Ignoring the fact of what would the people think, just the seven in general, or hell The Emperors

We know the Emperors exist, and the executors are enforcers of their will. There would, at the very least be a method of removing/replacing an executor who failed the emperors.

[smoky solstice]

yeah but the people are irrelevant, because the seven literally don't even ground their authority in any philosophy, they just view any sort of question as to whether they have a right to rule to be forbidden by itself

clearly the seven managed to circumvent the part where they need some sort of mandate from the people

[misty salmon]

if the emperors are actually on ice, then what they think doesn't matter

[pure plaza]

The Lore dumps in the Roathe KIM messages are wild if people haven't dug into them yet.

[wise quiver]

As I udnerstand it, less 'on ice' more...like what Mr.House in New Vegas was done up in.

[misty salmon]

I could totally see there being a vestigial impeachment protocol which none of the seven would willingly use because it would give it precedent.

[wise quiver]

Because if they couldn't punish eachother what would be the point?

[misty salmon]

because if they could punish each other, they could be punished.

[smoky solstice]

I mean maybe I just have this view because I find the notion of just 7 aholes being in charge of an empire for thousands of years and engaging in meaningless deadly squabbles all the time being kinda amusing? and it kinda lines up with the whole they've been there so long that they've lost all sense of humanity, they've just become the actual worst and there's nothing anyone can do about it because they constructed a system, which makes it impossible to get rid of them.
then the war with the sentients comes about, they suddenly have to innovate and they don't even take into consideration the fact that they opened up a way for them to get killed, like they couldn't even fathom their soldiers not being completely subservient

even after killing their mother figure

[wise quiver]

All of that is fine and acceptable, but I refuse to believe that these 7 people are so buddy buddy that when they set up this 7 executor system they didn't put in clauses or the like incase one of them becomes a problem and they can remove them.

Like, you literally live forever at this point, people change. Ballas is the chief example.

[smoky solstice]

to some extent, but what does being a problem mean

[pale cedar]

They can be removed though

We've known this for a while

[fast dew]

Tuvul, Ballas and seemingly Nihil, who probably replaced Nitokh

[smoky solstice]

ok, where is this procedure described

[wise quiver]

Actively going against the other Executors. Like, Ballas needed to convince the other 7 and do a whole stage play to get them onboard with the sentients in the first place. Why bother when they can't remove each other from office?

[smoky solstice]

or like just some mention of an executor being like gotten rid of

[wise quiver]

I forgot that Nihil was an executor.

[pale cedar]

Nihil was committing an Orokin crime by glassing all the people in modern day thus making him a criminal under Orokin laws and removable from the 7 if they weren't all dead or in hiding

[fast dew]

They couldn't be punished without unanimous vote from the 7

[pale cedar]

Yes

[fast dew]

which is exactly what nihil is doing

[pale cedar]

Nihil was doing it with him being one of 2 left

2 isn't 7

[fast dew]

Also, the title "regent", in Nitokh's name suggests she's standing in for someone

[smoky solstice]

oh gotcha, so they could get got but only through a unanimous vote

[wise quiver]

During the fight, Nora discovers that Nihil is in violation of Orokin law Legem 6-243; "No capital sentence shall be passed without the unanimous consent of the Seven on pain of forfeiture of all tools of office and banishment". This means the Glassmaker is a criminal in the eyes of the society he was a part of, making him a hypocrite.

[fast dew]

So either Nihil screwed off before the old peace and Nitokh is standing in for him, or something else

[smoky solstice]

then nevermind I guess, although presumably that would still mean that there weren't too many changes going on

since a unanimous vote is a pretty big deal

but yeah, that still means that it's not just 7 guys for millenia

[fast dew]

"Grand Regent Executor Nitokh" iirc is her name

She is pretty too

[pale cedar]

If Perintol failed in the second trial for Sentients creation they were going to kill him

They had already voted no once

[smoky solstice]

perintol is not an executor though

I feel like archimedeans are kinda different for this

[fast dew]

The two female executors are both so pretty

[pale cedar]

Yeah but Orokin laws are very dangerous

[iron pond]

So did the orokin make xenoflora

[fast dew]

Nup

[strange turtle]

No

[fast dew]

Its true alien life.

[pale cedar]

No, it's alien life

[smoky solstice]

...or wally life

but that's still an undercooked hypothesis

need more data for that one

[pale cedar]

Wally was made by humans

Or well a human

[smoky solstice]

ok, I don't know what that has to do with what I said though

[fast dew]

It wouldn't be alien

[iron pond]

So im curious how they moved these off planet then if they werent made

[fast dew]

As wally is of human creation

[misty salmon]

yep, but the rest of the empire didn't know of or didn't believe in him. If they bumped into something he made they wouldn't know that it wasn't alien.

[fast dew]

So not alien

[smoky solstice]

I just mean that maybe wally made the xenoflora based off the visual cues, the effects, stuff like that

[strange turtle]

You take it, and grow it somewhere else

[silk atlas]

...The same way you move any other plant?

[smoky solstice]

I guess yeah, but why is that important

[silk atlas]

Alien plant is still a plant

[fast dew]

Wally making anything would automatically make it non-alien, so if he made the flowers, they will not be alien, and the flowers are referred to, even outside the game, as the only true alien life

[smoky solstice]

idk what you mean by outside of that, but the only real references to the flowers we hear are from the orokin or the sentients, neither would know if wally actually made them

[feral cape]

Might be of human creation

[smoky solstice]

and if you mean like promotional stuff, I'm not sure if I'd put too much stock in the exact language used there

[fast dew]

...

Thats uh. Where we got the names from the other executors too.

[feral cape]

I severely doubt wally made the xenoflora

[fast dew]

The promotional material is canon unless said otherwise.

[feral cape]

Theres nothing really suggesting he did

[fast dew]

If its made by DE, its canon

[strange turtle]

Also like

Out of universe, something being alien is a big deal, because warframe’s whole thing is not just making things alien, the entire universe is designed on that premise. If DE says it’s alien, it’s alien

[smoky solstice]

what I'm saying is that if the promotional material refers to it as alien life, that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't made by wally, because technically everything made by wally is a human creation because humans technically probably made wally. Like, assuming for a second wally was a conceptual embodiment type of creation by albrecht or something, as is probably the case, just because the promotional material says it's alien life doesn't mean that it's in fact not strictly alien and created by wally, it could just mean that it's generally referred to as alien, and so the promos use that to quickly explain it, then later down the line we learn it's actually made by wally, it could also be that DE doesn't see a wally creaton as being something that's a human creation, which is completely valid too

[strange turtle]

That and if Wally did make it it’d be Void stuff or have something to do with the Void (like Kuva and it’s properties), and the Orokin would be able to tell that

[misty salmon]

I was wondering where those other two names had popped up on the wiki from.

[fast dew]

That would be... Scarne and Nitokh, yeah? We have visuals of them too

[misty salmon]

Scarne and Tormis

[fast dew]

Wait, no, that would be 3, right

Nvm im smart

[smoky solstice]

like how the hell can humans claim creations of wally as being their creations considering they had nothing to do with said creations, except accidentally creating the being which created them

[misty salmon]

Nitokh was mentioned in the old peace, and therefore isn't a "new" name for me (it being two days old ;) )

[fast dew]

Bcs wally was probably... created by a human

[smoky solstice]

scarne and tormis

[smoky solstice]

did you read the paragraph above

[fast dew]

Nitokh replaces Nihil, so i forgor to count the other