lore-discussion

[fluid pewter]

All of the new strange is about hunhow, hunhillus is a…form so to speak

[ocean hamlet]

must've been the natah quest

i know it was said at some point

[wise quiver]

Let me correct myself. Why did they split off into these 'lesser processes' when they clearly have a means of replicating fully humanoid entities(Adis casein point)

[fluid pewter]

Because you’re viewing humans as superior

[white sable]

Did tenno and ballas have history before the old peace?
Why was tenno angry at ballas

[fluid pewter]

You’re starting off on the wrong assumption. Sentients assimilate to avoid genocide

Not because they wanna be people

[wise quiver]

They were self replicating robots, hunhow could, with enough resources, just make copy themselves over and over.

[supple tide]

|| Adis made us immortal😦 ||

[wise quiver]

The whole reason the flowers are important is because it makes the shards/fragments individuals/free from the hive-mind thing.

[supple tide]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-the-old-peace-excalibur-prime-hunhullas-gif-14140846668974724863

[wise quiver]

We honestly don't know what the flower would do to someone like Natah or Erra, but there was a big mention of individuality from Adis about the flowers.

As if implying that was the most important aspect of the flowers.

Which, yeah, that's pretty important.

[ocean hamlet]

i mean. if you find a flower that suddenly gives you the ability to appreciate life, youd probably make a big deal about it too

[fluid pewter]

But anyways the absolute cinema reference literally KILLED me

[ocean hamlet]

especially if it reveals to you that you've been a mindless subordinate to a terraforming machine your entire existence

[fluid pewter]

I felt like the monkey neuron activation image 😭

[ocean hamlet]

the flower is basically stoned ape theory in a nutshell

[wise quiver]

THIS! YOU MENTIONED IT! Why aren't they more livid at their 'hive mind' masters like Hunhow then?!

[ocean hamlet]

i mean, why would they be? its not like hunhow was unethical

they're machines, they were doing what they were designed to do, its just that now they can decide to do other things

[silk atlas]

Which he would only need to do if there was something that would involve having another of him. Terraforming a planet wouldn't need that, in this hypothetical. He's just need things well enough to do the smaller stuff he wasn't gonna do personally and make sure things go right. They didn't make Natah out of the gate as some super sapient thing for no reason, they needed her to be charismatic enough to appear human to trick the Tenno.

Semi-related, I'm going back to the quests to see more Sentient junk and how they relate to this idea of individuality.

HUH???

(This is Hunhow saying this to Lotus for failing to kill the Tenno)

[lean garden]

sorry where was this in?

[silk atlas]

They mean this.

[lean garden]

yea but they said it was referenced somewhere

[silk atlas]

That's it.
That's the reference.

Roathe "doing the pose"

[ocean hamlet]

this

[lean garden]

wait no theyre talking about this lol

[wise quiver]

But there is no mention of this anywhere, their would have been some weirdness. If I could remove my hand and remote control it and then it suddenly told me "I am alive!" like johnny 5, I'd have questions and concerns.

A foreman, a machine who is terraforming would want to understand/know why their workers are eating flowers instead of doing work.

I also, still, very much, dislike the fact that they gave us 2 ways for them to be...effectively free of control.

Like, the, for the sake ofconversation, "Progenator Sentients" just became self aware/individuals/free of orkin control before they arrived in tau. While in Tau they made special roombas to do jobs. Then one day their roombas got free of their control and...we have to just assume they were like. "Oh, that's cool." while they're dealing with terraforming a world/prepairing for war at this point.

With no dialogue clarifying this at all.

When they literally could have just stuck with 'self replicating robots'

[pine orchid]

I thought it was that Hunhow Natah and Erra have been to Tau or were made in Tau, and then came back to origin system to wage war and got stuck there?

[wise quiver]

Yes.

Well that was stage 2 of the old war.

[ocean hamlet]

y'see, dont get me wrong, i do agree that going the "all sentients can be free" route is a bit weird, not to mention the design for Adis kinda just doesnt sit right with me, it doesnt feel well thought out, but im focused less on picking apart what they wrote and more curious about what they're gonna do with it.

[silk atlas]

Honestly the fact that Hunhow can't (won't?) calm the other Sentients down to stop them from attacking Lotus after they learn she didn't do her job should show this whole idea is far more nuanced than "both these things are the same amount of 'free will' and the flowers are just irrelevant."

It's not like the free or unfreed Sentients would've just started mauling each other because they still all had the job of building the rail anyway.

[wise quiver]

Stage 1 was us beating them back to tau, doing a temporary cease fire, then going back.

[silk atlas]

Nor does "hivemind" mean "immediately hostile" in the case of the unfreed Sentients wondering what the heck is going on with the flowers.

[lean garden]

wait whats wrong with adis?

[silk atlas]

I honestly think him not having the mask is cooler

[lean garden]

I thought hunhow was referring to other major sentients

[ocean hamlet]

energy hands just looks weird to me. it looks stapled with "good enough" when trying to make a sentient look less monster like

[pine orchid]

I like Adis without the mask, very cute

[silk atlas]

Dakko did mention the Sentients seemed uncanny when trying to mimic humans...

[lean garden]

yknow, that makes some sense. Although, wouldnt you argue that the whole "good enough" bit might be the point?

[wise quiver]

As I understand it, there are Progenator Sentients, like Hunhow, who can make fragments which are connected to them via a hive mind. Hunhow is an individual. It is my understanding that there are other Individuals(those unbound by a hive mind) and they can reproduce.

My confusion is primarily due to the fact that the old peace seems solely focused on the 'hive mind' fragments freedom, rather than the Progenator Sentients themselves. They've, effectively, created an entire sub race/species of the Sentients only to genocide them off in this story.

[silk atlas]

Who would've even been these major Sentients at this point? Like Erra and that's it?

[dark compass]

There's just such an insane amount of story setup with the radiation, the flowers, everything. There's so much stuff to work through for the tau update.

[ocean hamlet]

dont get me wrong, ive learned from DE's writing that their design usually has reason behind it, its just usually a "cause why not" while still being made to make sense

[lean garden]

well we know that there were others who made it to origin, like natah hunhow and the eidolon, I just took it as there were others too

[wise quiver]

I don't like that they made this seemingly sub-species of sentient just to have a "haha ballas does genocide" moment.

[ocean hamlet]

oh yeah i forgot about the radiation, thats probably gonna get expanded on later

[dark compass]

I don't think many people realize just how many games go with design first justification later

[pine orchid]

I wanted to learn more about Old Peace and the Orokin, the political side too
I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but even if it's an optional side dialogue I would've liked it

[ocean hamlet]

i mean, i think its moreso the other way around.
ballas always wanted to take over, and the flowers were probably getting in the way, since the sentients wouldnt follow orders when 'free' from the network

[lean garden]

I think theyre talking from a writer perspective, since thats the context I brought it up in

[ocean hamlet]

if it werent for Ballas wanting to take over, the peace started by the flowers probably would have worked

[wise quiver]

pulls out hair The whole reason the war started was because the sentients were immune to orokin control.

[dark compass]

They made a slave species that developed a hive mind. Them rebelling wasn't a part of the plan in the first place

[ocean hamlet]

the orokin are bad at making subjugated factions, they keep going rogue on them

[dark compass]

And TO TOP IT ALL OFF, they can develop individuality now

[ocean hamlet]

the sentients, the grineer, and infestation

[silk atlas]

The Grineer were fine for the most part while the Orokin were in control, afaik

[dark compass]

Grineer in this case didn't "go rogue" , it was a setup

[wise quiver]

The flowers just made it so the fragments of the Sentients(that were already rebelling to the orokin, near as I understand it) were also individuals and unbound to their Progenator's will.

[ocean hamlet]

the flowers were basically accidental firmware updates

[wise quiver]

Nowhere does it say t he flowers made it so the Progenator Sentients(like Hunhow) were able to rebel or resist the orokin. If that was mentioned anywhere I would not be anywhere near as livid as I am.

[wise quiver]

But only for the FRAGMENTS

[lean garden]

slight correction: the orokin are bad at making factions, they all turn on them.

yes this includes orokin factions

[dark compass]

They had Dax, Dax were perfectly fine.

Grineer also functioned

[lean garden]

until they also went rogue

[wise quiver]

After we(tenno) purged the orokin elite.

[lean garden]

the grineer hold 1/7 of the awards for killing the seven

the tenno hold a now confirmed 4/7

[wise quiver]

So there are 2 we don't know how they died?

[lean garden]

or 3/7 depending on how the nihil debacle settles

[dark compass]

Grineer could rebel only because another Orokin put them to it

[silk atlas]

See my thinking is that they're all connected to the "network", because I don't see why the network would exclusively have to be parental here, especially when some cool stuff happens with some of the Sentient enemies like them picking up limbs from their fellow Sentients to repair themselves. The network is also mentioned to not be entirely on-off thing, with Lotus having a remark in TSD about this:

[lean garden]

well to be fair, they also turned on that orokin

but that one wasnt a 7

[silk atlas]

Like, most of TSD was about Lotus having to struggle against Hunhow's influence.

[dark compass]

Which one?

[lean garden]

so they win no awards for that

[lean garden]

the one that gave them the codes to kill aventus

[ocean hamlet]

under what conditions would non-fragments interact with the flowers? we dont know if the flowers only work on the fragments, just that the fragments that come across them do gain freedom.
and if we're already joking that the fragments are roombas, it would make sense that some of them would just accidentally slurp these flowers up and suddenly 'wake up'.
and whos to say a fragment splitting from the nexus is distinct from a fragment dying.
hunhow may not have even noticed it, just seeing it as the natural cost of sentients getting caught in war zones

[wise quiver]

My thing is, if the flowers allowed them to rebel, why even mention that they became self aware on the trip to tau?

[pine orchid]

do we know all the identities of the Seven? one of the female statues struck me as giving off the vibes of Mother when I saw it, but I didn't think she was one of the Seven even if she was Entrati(?)

[silk atlas]

They mentioned all the names (Nihil isn't one) in the hype stream on Twitch yesterday.

[ocean hamlet]

hunhow probably became self aware, that doesnt mean all sentients became self aware. not to mention, if it was just hunhow and pragasa sent to Tau, and all of the drones were made afterwards (which just makes the most sense, from a logistical perspective), then the only two to have gained self awareness would have been those two

[pine orchid]

I wasn't paying attention to it all the time I didn't see 😩 do you have a timestamp?

[wise quiver]

We know that the flowers free Fragments from hivemind control and make them individuals. We know that on the way to tau the Sentients became free of orokin control and became individuals.

[wise quiver]

They did, Itzem says so, it's been stated all through every interaction "The sentient became self aware."

[celest needle]

What a quest

Holy moly

[lilac aspen]

So Xeno zaza made the Mahoraga terraformers gain thought bubble

[pine orchid]

when I saw the flowers I did assume that praghasa and hunhow got to Tau first, ate the flowers and became self aware, then waged war
although it does bring up the issue that they've been without the flowers for a long time now but still self-aware

[wise quiver]

THIIIIIIIIS SO MUCH

[ocean hamlet]

hmm

once again, i bring up the semantics of individuality, now that self awareness has been specified

cause you can be self aware without having individuality

[wise quiver]

Oh my god

please take context clues into account my guy

Self aware, sentient, they became not machines.

[celest needle]

How did Erra stay self aware?

[lean garden]

I would like to caveat that adis did say the work-life cycle of a sentient on the way to tau was work -> become part of the rail

[lilac aspen]

They didn’t get the flowers at first, I believe
Judging by how lil’ A said the ancestors, or “His ancestors” (like batch of bots or whatever) in particular, were building the Gates and even using their own bodies to build parts of it.

Then they found the flowers

[ocean hamlet]

im trying lmfao, from what i understand the terraforming machines were sent to tau, became self aware/sentient on the way there, then on arrival individual drones were able to 'claim' individuality via the xenoflora

[silk atlas]

I'll be real I'd like the exact quote for this, because the idea I'm running on is that they are still in a network together and collectively realized "Oh wait the Orokin are going to screw this all up." Apparently the quote is from one of the Grineer in the quest and not from Itzam, so I'm going to scrub through it and come back.

[lean garden]

the million pylons high are made from sentient bodies

[lean garden]

I know theres something from itzam about their journey so do try to keep a lookout

[wise quiver]

Except those invididual drones were fragments of bigger sentients, like hunhow.

[lilac aspen]

Dude we got bamboozled out of seeing the rest of the Archons in their prime

[ocean hamlet]

and that discredits my statement because....?

[lean garden]

I mean teeeeechnically we do see them on their primes in TNW

[wise quiver]

So, either, the hive-mind that Adis refers to is the hive mind of the fragments to their progenator Sentient(hunhow) or all the sentients share 1 hive-mind that can control/compell them. If it is the latter, why are Hunhow, and by extension every other sentient that fights the orokin, able to fight the orokin without the flowers/

[ocean hamlet]

well, someone already told me i was wrong when i said the sentients have to follow orokin orders

[lilac aspen]

Banishing you to 5 hours of Cryotic farming

[pine orchid]

I LOVE PUPPY AMAR BUT WHERE'S BOREAL NIRA MAYBE PAZUUL 😭

[wise quiver]

Because, by that logic, Hunhow would be bound by the hive mind just like the fragments without the flower, because the flower is what, By Adis Own Words, what frees them(all sentients) from the hive-mind.

[lilac aspen]

Amar just shows up
Looks majestic
“I’m off to get the others dw.”
NEVER SEES THEM

[ocean hamlet]

so if hunhow, aka the main consciousness of the sentients, realized the orokin would mess everything up, then if he turns on the orokin, the rest of the sentients would too. and all he needs there is self awareness, since he doesnt have to worry about fighting for individuality from a larger nexus

[modern widget]

Without the flowers, the Sentients default to follow orders, right? Doesn't exactly matter who, I suppose. Who is to say that they didn't just left themselves the orders to wage war on the Orokin/Origin System?

[silk atlas]

The hivemind wanted war, apparently.

[wise quiver]

Because it's literally shown that people can hijack that control in the old peace, or when Ballas takes over Lotus.

[pine orchid]

assuming the hivemind is hunhow, maybe hunhow is still being angry grandpa when his workers found the flowers and were like "actually we kinda dont want to be sent into war as cannon fodder thanks"

[ocean hamlet]

so the "Hunhow becoming self aware and turning on the orokin" is currently a valid proposal. so long as the subordinate sentients stay subordinate, they follow the hivemind, aka Hunhow.
if anything causes them to diverge, i.e. the flowers or ballas messing with natah's head, they start following other specified orders

the flowers allow them to determine their own orders, essentially

[pine orchid]

that line from the history of tau comes to mind... smth about "these old machines still yearn for a command to obey"

[lilac aspen]

The flower gives them TRUE freedom, you could say

[bright temple]

Also, confirmation on the year

[ocean hamlet]

thats what ive been trying to say xDD

[wise quiver]

The flower seemingly only gives subordinate/fragments freedom.

[ocean hamlet]

where do you get that impression

we've never seen the flower fail to work on anything else, from what i recall

[lilac aspen]

Who knows
Maybe if we should feed a flower to Hunhow to see if something happens

[ocean hamlet]

taht would be funny

[lilac aspen]

If something does happen
Oh no

[pine orchid]

maybe hunhow's interaction with the flowers is different than the others? maybe he only needed to huff it once to be like actually this place is cool and the orokin are bastards, but we never got to see it in this questline

[wise quiver]

Because we have seen Natah, Errah, Eidolon, Hunhow all act against commands from humans which would be impossible without the flower

[lean garden]

that was me making a joke about how erra disappoints his dad lol

[pine orchid]

I wish we could just talk to space grandad he seems kinda chill now

[ocean hamlet]

and this is where we may have a complete misunderstanding of the command structure of the sentients

[drowsy flower]

is margulis in the quest actual margulis or natah

[wise quiver]

Why did Hunhow rebel.

[lilac aspen]

I think the command part only functions if you actually know them in terms of “product name”

Since the lady called out their specific number and stuff to get them to work

[modern widget]

I think this is one of those things where there isn't going to be any concrete answer until the next story update. I feel like the Operator should have some sort kimchat equivalent so we can get the nitty-gritty on the small stuff like this. The xenoflora was introduced and then wiped out in such quick succession within the quest.

[ocean hamlet]

where is it stated he couldnt

[pine orchid]

it could be a place for them to sneak in extra lore dialogue about the flowers, have hunhow be like "back in my day...." XD

[wise quiver]

At the start of the old war you goober

[lean garden]

LOL XX99 FOR WHAT NOW WE KNOW ITS 1899

[ocean hamlet]

trying to find the transcript

[lean garden]

actually, I think thats what roathe can do

because roathe was there

hes already dropped banger entrati family lore

[wise quiver]

Detron Crewman synthesis lore.

[lean garden]

and hes confirmed that yes that executor wasnt framed, she actually did back the anarchs

[lilac aspen]

Feed Caliban the Xenoflower since he can actually eat them due to the sentient tech

[pine orchid]

also, the Uriel that we commandeered in old peace was one of Roathe's friends? or one of his batallion?

[kind sparrow]

Does Caliban want the yummy flower?

[lean garden]

im confused, the detron crewman synthesis states that the one thing stopping the sentients from fighting back was their weakness to void

not that they couldnt rebel

[wise quiver]

That was the failsafe.

[lean garden]

just that they shouldnt have been able to come back to throw hands

[lean garden]

battalion it seems

[lilac aspen]

Correct me if I’m wrong
But from how he described it

It sounded as if his entire battalion willingly warframed themself in honor of the “Devil of Tau”

[lean garden]

the "close friend" thing seems to be for the prime

[wise quiver]

It was also stated that the only reason they rebeled (Balas, t he sacrifice) was because t hey became self aware and realized the orokin would mess up tau just like the origin system.

[lean garden]

i dont know about willingly but yes the whole battalion

[wise quiver]

If they never became self aware that wouldn't have happened.

[modern widget]

Point. This is still same day as the update, so there's not alot of kimchats to sort through at the moment. But I also yearn for other Tenno perspectives beyond our own. At least in-game. That whole ARG thing was interesting but short. Roathe when he so delightfully dehumanizes the Operator by using "it", mentions that we run around with other Tenno friends. And I'm like in-game maybe but not exactly in the story,

[lilac aspen]

With Uriel Prime being someone who was genuinely close to Roathe

[pine orchid]

figured, I found it kinda weird that apparently there was a battalion of them and a prime but the one singled out for naughty jail was effectively one of the mooks...
bt then again I didn't look into the hole in that map Xd

[pine orchid]

I was also so sad!!! why couldn't we see some of the others like Sunny! and Ghast!

if we had more time we could've also noticed their absence after they were sent to deal with another egg or smth

[lilac aspen]

Kim chat for other Tennos but it’s like the Warframe Discord

[pine orchid]

us telling Valdur not to come to school tomorrow also caught me off guard lmao

[silk atlas]

I think at this point this comes down to if the hivemind has already taken hold of the Sentient before they get orders from somewhere else. Remember, it's the hivemind that came up with the idea that they were going to kill the Orokin for ruining Tau for themselves in the future. There's no mention of anything Itzal says about self-awareness in any place that isn't a choice dialogue at least

[ocean hamlet]

just read it, the flaw had nothing to do with command, it was just a weakness, so if the sentients did turn on the orokin, they wouldnt be able to travel back to fight them. there was no way of stopping the ever-evolving machines from possibly going rogue, so they just made sure they'd get turned to dust if they even tried returning to wage war

[lilac aspen]

Nah man
That Uriel scene
They did not have to get the electric guitar out
They did not have to make me feel like Doomslayer

[pine orchid]

and that's why most of them are (presumably) stuck in Tau and only Hunhow, Praghasa, and their children are here right?

[ocean hamlet]

so basically, Hunhow turned on the Orokin, started a war, and then some of the drones found the flowers and decided to defect cause they didnt like being thrown away as cannon fodder

[modern widget]

I pray that whatever big story update comes next, we'd at least get some other Operator characters. Because it's like, oh, we're Tauron Academy but it's only you and Adis shown as students. There's only Grineer here. We're having a graduation day, but it's just you two. I dunno. Makes the world feel small.

[pine orchid]

I did feel that too, putting Warframe Assassins Creed and Warframe Doom into the list with Warframe COD 😂

[lean garden]

well uh... you do know what happened to sunny and ghast and thunder and etc right?

[ocean hamlet]

from the detron crewman synthesis entry

Tuvul peered down at me, “And when it completes its task, what will prevent it from turning against us, as the Seven Principles say?”

“The flaw.”

Tuvul’s eyes narrowed, “The flaw?”

“The Void is poison to them. Once they have reached Tau they will be marooned there. To travel the rail here would destroy them. Whatever the risks, the Origin system will be-”

[pine orchid]

I do! that's why I wanted to see them more, I thought it was a hint for other Tenno we might see in the academy, and then they'd be dispatched to deal with the egg and... well the rest is history

[modern widget]

I'm surprised that he made it into orbit from the ground honestly. That was hype.

[lilac aspen]

Lore Warframe

[lean garden]

I uh, dont think youd be able to see them more

but I agree, others would be cool

[pine orchid]

well not anymore now but during the Peace Era in the Academy I feel like there could've been a moment where they're around

[lean garden]

Im not sure, the prelude wasnt clear if that fight was before the old peace

they took care not to mention what the enemy looked like

[pine orchid]

I just feel like it's a missed opportunity with the whole Taurom academy to show off more Tenno

[lilac aspen]

Lore accurate frame vs in game frame

Considering Uriel’s one is duration based instead of energy
Tenno clearly just installed a lot of duration mods

[modern widget]

I'd be sated if they just had suited, masked Operators mulling about the Academy.

[lean garden]

and also the prelude is a smidgen anachronistic

[modern widget]

Like my standards are that low.

[pine orchid]

Itzam even mentioned coming back to meet other students after geaduation so surely there are others

[lean garden]

because khora prime cannot be there if margulis is alive

[lean garden]

no need for that, the ability is refreshable

Ive tested in the bit we got to use Uriel

[pine orchid]

ah is there Khora prime lore? I'm still not super familiar with all of them

[wise quiver]

Where's the defection? There is no mention of that anywhere. As far as I've seen in the old peace its every single sentient is behind this truce, there is no 'this faction of sentients is sueing for peace and these are trying to kill these' the sentients are unified wholly and true because there is no mention of anything otherwise

[lean garden]

khora prime trailer has ballas yap about how marge lives on in lotus's head, which as you know, cant happen before the Old peace

[ocean hamlet]

fam

the hivemind sentients, aka hunhow, wanted war.
the defecting ones didnt.

[lilac aspen]

From how that’s described
It sounds like everyone no longer is a hivemind

[wise quiver]

"they've all got minds of their own now"

[ocean hamlet]

actually seeing this makes me realize that theres layers to this.
if the flower goes away, they revert back to taking orders.
if no orders come, they revert back to hivemind

[wise quiver]

It seems to imply the hive mind is some third party thing like hte weave for cephalons.

[lean garden]

layers like a flower petal

[pine orchid]

I'll have to look into it then, but if they were in Khora Prime and we were in Academy before Margulis' death then surely that means they would've still been operational during the Old Peace segments we played through?
I feel like it's a missed opportunity because like out of all the times and places to show off canon NPC Tenno, where and when else would be better?

[lean garden]

perhaps? thats why Im not certain when the prelude takes place

[ocean hamlet]

its worth noting that its a grineer soldier thats saying this, which could very well be an exaggeration of whats actually going on. after all, we do still fight some sentients that are flower-less during the new gamemode

[lean garden]

but also they couldnt have been in khora prime before margulis's death

[wise quiver]

This is why I don't like ballas killing the flowers, because they're clearly a method to control the sentients, why give up that powerful of a tool.

[wise quiver]

Only at the very end when the peace is over.

[ocean hamlet]

they... arent??? where did you get that???
i legit said the flowers grant freedom, and the lack of flower is what reverts them to taking orders.

[pine orchid]

that's fine, mostly I just wanted to see actual NPC Tenno and not just from the matchmaking

and I (mistakenly) thought the mini ARG thing was a teaser for them

[wise quiver]

The exact wording of Adis, when they come off the flowers they hunger for commands if they aren't commanded by someone, anyone, they go back to "hive mind".

[lean garden]

when I found out they were dead and glassed I was like "yeap never seeing them lol"

[wise quiver]

The implication here being that the sentient hive-mind is some third party thing separate from the individual like Hunhow.

[modern widget]

I think they meant more so in the sense of holding it as leverage. But Ballas and the Orokin would probably prefer just to drive the Sentients to extinction for the mere notion of wanting some autonomy. They probably think it's easier to kill all the Sentients and build up some new ones than to be nice and give them sovereignty.

[ocean hamlet]

for one, ballas didnt like the sentients from the start, we see that in the detron crewman log.
for two, the flowers would still require giving up control initially. even if it means they fall in line eventually, ballas has never liked the premise of not being in control, and would squash any possibility of that happening. we see it time and time again, and how often it bites him in the ass.

[wise quiver]

What? he was all for the sentients being made in the crewman log though.

He chats up the dude after the formal hearing and was like "you see? They didn't know they wanted it until presented with it."

[lilac aspen]

Orokin always want to be in control

The Sentients, due to the flowers, can no longer ever be under the Orokin control AND have the capacity to fight back if really needed.

Orokin don’t like that

[wise quiver]

“You did better than I thought you would,” it was Ballas, the man, not the projection. “It would seem nobody truly knows they want a thing until you threaten to take it away.” He broke into a smile, “Wouldn’t you agree, Archimedian?”

[ocean hamlet]

wack

[wise quiver]

Yes, but there is a period of time after they stop taking the flowers that they can be commanded, and as long, assuming based on Adis words, you keep commanding them they don't go back to the 'hive mind' state.

[lilac aspen]

So they get rid of the flowers
It causes the big chaos
But also a way to possibly regain control of them. If not, scorched earth the bots

[wise quiver]

I still don't like the flowers

[ocean hamlet]

you dont have to lmfao, just acknowledge they exist and wait and see what they do with them

[lilac aspen]

I don’t think an Orokin cares enough to open up a sentient manual to read out the right name

[pine orchid]

I do agree the flowers are a little strange, felt like a mcguffin even if they're pretty
but I'm guessing they're gonna be explored more in the Tau update

[ocean hamlet]

it would be nice if the sentients on Tau kinda get to be their own civilization thanks to the flowers, would give us different types of characters to interact with when we finally get there

[lilac aspen]

DE let us restore the Archons to their former glory and let them lore drop stuff to us

[wise quiver]

If we go along the route that is seemingly implied by those words of the 'hive mind' thing, it's still weird and frustrating, because now there is this seemingly 'gestalt conciousness' that controls them.

[ocean hamlet]

imagine the flowers grant warframes freedom too, so we can finally have our umbra modules like what was originally planned xD

[wise quiver]

All of them.

[pine orchid]

I will say seeing Amar originally also made me horrified for the Archons, rlly made me realize they basically stitched the severed heads of the archons to the headless husks of the primes

[wise quiver]

The reason that was scrapped was because it just wasn't worth it from a gameplay perspective.

[lilac aspen]

They are machines
I wouldn’t be shocked if there’s some giga Sentient Brain doing all the calculations and stuff to allow real time adaptation and reconfiguration of stuff

[ocean hamlet]

isnt that consciousness just hunhow tho?

[modern widget]

Honestly the flowers aren't that bad of an idea. They just haven't been properly explored yet, so it's a wait-and-see situation till the next update. Speaking of hiveminds, imagine if it turns out the Xenoflora is just... the Infestation in a different form, I'd find that hilarious because I don't think anyone would like that idea.

[wise quiver]

We don't know, for all we know there were 50 things like hunhow, or 1000, we lack knowledge on that front.

[lilac aspen]

They really did just grab the corpses of two different things and mashed them together with a crystal as the life support system keeping it alive

[ocean hamlet]

only way to make it worth it is by making operator/drifter actually viable late game, which opens the warframe up to being a moddable specter, functionally speaking

[ocean hamlet]

so far we've been told Hunhow and Praghasa are the progentiors of all sentients, so we can assume fairly confidently that they're the ones in control

[wise quiver]

Not only that, but the grind for the item as well. They were wanting it to be time limited, not a permanent buff, made from limited/rare resources so you couldn't really stockpile it very well or something like that.

[wise quiver]

heking where

I knew Hunhow and Praghasa were the progenitors of the sentients in the origin ssytem, but ALL OF THEM EVER I refuse to believe without a sauce.

[pine orchid]

tbf I think it could be interpreted as just progenitors of the ones in origin system

[lilac aspen]

Ngl
I’d think that would be too risky to only make Hunhow and Praghasa for Terraforming plans
There were probably more than them, it’s just they were the two willing to risk it all to come back to throw hands

[pine orchid]

presumably the sentients in origin system are effectively infertile, but if there are any still in Tau... maybe they've since rebuilt with the orokin gone?

[lilac aspen]

And boy did Hunhow throw hands

[wise quiver]

Under albrechts guiding hand.

[pine orchid]

that would be cool if we could see a sentient settlement when we go to Tau

and as my wife mentioned to me, would be cool if we could visit Adis' grave too qwq

[lilac aspen]

If only we could get old man Hunhow out of the water to see if we can drag him to Tau

[pine orchid]

I kinda still want to chat with hunhow in general, even without him being a vendor or a mission dealer

[wise quiver]

Considering the old peace

I can understand him not wanting to talk to us.

[ocean hamlet]

i feel like they wouldnt have the "bury him" line if that wasnt gonna be an option

[pine orchid]

imagine we get there and the grave is empty

[ocean hamlet]

mmmmmm

[wise quiver]

too many questions from this quest

[modern widget]

If he ever becomes a vendor, you just know we're gonna be trading in flowers for standing. But Hunhow needs to get on kimchat or something. There needs to be more casual lore drops.

[ocean hamlet]

imagine we give hunhow a flower because one of the sentients asks us to

[pine orchid]

ik he's a sentient and their whole thing is technology but... boomer hunhow??? 🤣
or reverse boomer where he's like what is this dastardly thing it's so limiting ugh

[ocean hamlet]

"please help space uncle realize we're chill now" type shit

[pine orchid]

I'd love it

maybe space grandpa just wants the grandkids to come visit every now and then

and tell them war stories and stuff

[wise quiver]

dialingupbrainnoises

How the hek are tenno able to be friends on any level with a sentient, isn't our very existencee like....toxic to them?

[pine orchid]

ah that's right they never explained the void-lugger thing! I theorized it may mean Adis is a Transference-capable type of Sentient with the Hunhullus but... ig maybe it is just a sentient slur

[wise quiver]

I thought it was a sentient slur

But like it also raises the question of like...is...is Adis sterile because they're our friend?

Cause the whole thing is the void sterilized them.

[ocean hamlet]

k but why call a sentient void-lugger. the sentients... dont use void energy?

[pine orchid]

I thought us being toxic to them was because the void is like a manifestation of entropy, and that since Tau is covered in anti-entropic energy it was fine?

[wise quiver]

Where did you see/read that tau is...covered in anti-entropic energy?

[pine orchid]

this was my thought process, but the argument was made that the void part is referring to the pylons

[pine orchid]

it being the origin of the Archon shards mostly led me to that assumption

but tbf I may have jumped the gun a bit on that conclusion

[wise quiver]

To the best of my knowledge the sentients never developed an 'anti void' thing, they always at the very least became sterile after void exposure.

The one thingwe don't know is how much is needed to sterilize

And what that would mean for a smaller model sentient like Adis.

I am, again, operating off the assumption that Adis is a "higher tier" of sentient, like Hunhow, with built in individuality that is not reliant upon the flower like others.

[pine orchid]

they didn't but if maybe the flowers are filled with anti-entropic energy it could explain why
but then again it isn't like our sole existence is what's toxic, it's us shooting concentrated void lasers at them right?

[wise quiver]

The hold fast.

Remember, that us being in proximity near them, due to our void nature, empowers them in a way. Implying that we kind of just passively 'ooze void'

[pine orchid]

Adis is definitely special
the game says he's special for his healing power (maybe that's a manifestation of anti-entropy? like healing to Adis is like void laser beams to us?)
but him having a special model feels like... there's way more to him than just that

[pine orchid]

we have a light in us, brighter than the call of the void is also what they said
with current context, I've now assumed they're talking about Adis' light

[wise quiver]

before I go to bed, I will say once again that the graduation ceremony was poorly worded, the choice of "I pronounce you two as life bonded" was baaaad.

[pine orchid]

we got married to Adis and lost him right after 😔

[wise quiver]

Shhh, don't say that, I got chewed the hek out over saying that

[lean garden]

oh no thats explained LOL

idk if it made it to the item description

[pine orchid]

I suppose it's because it's two kids being bonded for life that makes it iffy, doesn't make it feel any less like a marriage in the moment 😂

[lean garden]

but adis is just using the lyrioc bridge to control the hunhullus

which is the item you get for clearing the hunhullus mission in DF

[pine orchid]

oh yes I saw! I figured it's like a piece of tech that allows them to use Transference, the same way we have the... Askharis? (spelling?)

[wise quiver]

It really does, my brain was going back to like...medieval ages with 2 young nobles being 'betrothed' to one another while they're still kids or what ever.

[lean garden]

I dont think we can call it transference

anymore calling shinji in the eva transference

wait no bad example

[pine orchid]

mine was with Rune Factory 2 and how you can have mock marriages as kids to be bffs 😂

[lean garden]

any more than [insert child pilot] in a gundam

[pine orchid]

I still think it looks like transference, but we don't really have a close look of Adis going in and out of the Hunhullus at all but ig that's fair

[strange plinth]

doesn't he slot into the "chest" cavity?

[lean garden]

Im thinking the major difference is that the hunhullus is not a sentient like adis but rather a sentient weapon

[pine orchid]

it feels kinda like it could be the same way warframes are bio weapons, or how we could transference into the vessel thingies in Albrecht's labs as a parallel mostly

[lean garden]

I think the intention was to parallel, but I dont think the same processes were used

adis is after all supposed to learn our ways

[pine orchid]

even if there is the Occam's razor explanation at the very least I'd like to entertain the notion that Adis could be attuned to void in some way especially because of the learning of Tenno ways thing too

[lean garden]

which I'd support with my crackpot sentient sentience is void derived theory but uh

[pine orchid]

I never saw Daklo call any other Sentient void-luggers either not even during that lil rant of his when Adis was missing but tbf I was also half tuning him out being like f off go away with your anti-sentient racism

[pine orchid]

oh? 👀
I love crackpot theories in this household and would love to hear this crackpot theory of yours

I might replay the mission again or review my recording of it to check out more things, particularly the new void tongue :3

[lean garden]

in essence:

Sentient sentience is due to a void derived framework for consciousness which eventually grew into full sentience, because its coming from the mind place. Sentients weakness is because it blows up their consciousness and as a result their bodies lose cohesion.

the flowers add an extra level to it because the flowers somehow are able to autogenously (not sure if I used that word right) create new selves out of another self.

So in this case adis might be able to be void attuned because its just an adjustment of the existing framework to facilitate more void.

Also its why caliban can be a hybrid warframe

[pine orchid]

tbf I wouldn't be surprised if they used Void tech in developing the Sentients too considering they use it for a lot of things already

what if they used Kuva in creating the Sentients?

Kuva is void-derived, it is somehow able to cause Dax to submit, so maybe they used smth similar to create the Sentients and to be able to control them? and the flowers are somehow able to counteract that mind control effect?

[lean garden]

Kuva I dont think so, but to cure the sentients temple kuva works

[strange plinth]

-# kuva has void-derived properties, it is not void-derived by itself

[lean garden]

I need more information on the flower before I can do anything

because I need to know what of the flower allows it to do what it does

especially since it looks like that

like a flower and refined version of the nonono

[pine orchid]

funny blue juice to counteract funny red juice Xd

[lean garden]

unironically the other way around is cannonical

the funny red juice used screwed over orokin who used the funny blue juice

[pine orchid]

I assumed the former implies the latter 😅
could be smth from the language used I'm not familiar with (I'm not native english speaker)

[pine orchid]

wait I don't remember this, I thought all Orokin used the funny red juice- 😅
can you explain a bit more?

[strange turtle]

It’s a Naberus story

[strange plinth]

the naberus story that mentions bluva
blue kuva is temporary, some orokin tried to use it to scare some people w/ mutilated bodies, but a servant girl (that's totally not yareli apparently) swapped the blue kuva for red kuva, trapping them in those bodies
might be a little wrong i haven't read/heard it in a while

[pine orchid]

my train of thought is going places, such as... so kuva was used to disable our transference and void powers before somehow during the... War Within? iirc?
and now they're hinting that there's something that can bind an operator to their warframes permanently... they feel connected
I wonder if maybe the flowers were just an indication of that, like idk it absorbed part of that radiation and its properties, and maybe why it's toxic to us(? idk Valdur didn't seem to need the mask thing to breathe and operator was slightly panicking over it turning off)
I feel like there's a conenction that could be made

[strange plinth]

operator panicked because they knew it meant all of the xenoflora was about to die
breathable air kills the xenoflora, their mask turning off means breathable air

[pine orchid]

but I didn't know there was a naberus story, I kinda missed out playing naberus last month 😅

[main crane]

You can listen to it in the dojo I think

[pine orchid]

I... must've missed when they explained this in the quest? but fair enough
I think it's still possible for there to be a connection even without that part

[strange plinth]

dagath's, yes
the bluva story is tied to a naberus decoration afaik

[glacial bough]

Kuva doesn't effect our powers at all like that. War Within was a lck of skill and ability

[lean garden]

it was first demonstrated in the first egg before the dactolyst fight

[pine orchid]

I suppose you're right, we were kicked out of our lil transference training pod and that was originally how we were able to transference, the kuva seemed to be disrupting that process in particular

[pine orchid]

oh! Galastra saying fresh air, I didn't make the connection to that I forgot 😅

I thought it was the other way around, where the flowers are giving off... idk toxic spores or smth

[fresh jacinth]

Guys i needs some help tho conect the dots. In the old peace quest. We get the information that without this special plant the sentients go back in a status wher the need comands. So my question is. How did the turn the first time vs the origin. And how did the turn again vs us in the new war. Did i miss something?

[lean garden]

goes back to the status where they are a hivemind

[pine orchid]

you didn't miss anything but the discussion in this channel that was debating exactly that point 😂

but the conclusion is... we aren't sure yet how exactly hunhow managed to break free of orokin control initially

[strange plinth]

tmk, they developed sentience on the way to tau. the hivemind decided that the orokin shouldn't get to ruin tau as they did origin, so they go to war (whoever shot first doesn't matter)
find the flowers, they find individuality, peace is called, because not all of the sentients want to fight
remove the flowers, they fall back into the hive that wants war

[pine orchid]

that's to the best of our current knowledge piecing things together

[main crane]

Yes. That basically explains the dialogues "Without the Xenoflora, the Sentients thirst for order" or something like that

command or order I think

[lean garden]

orders

craving order and craving orders is funny enough two different things

[main crane]

Lmao fair

[pine orchid]

warframe assassins creed??? 😂

[cunning dragon]

Is the difference between the sentients in main timeline and the ones in TOP just the flower making them not angry

[fresh jacinth]

Oh. Ok i see. But how dos this work with the sentient we fight in the first mission wher ouer eneny says that without the flower the need a comand?

[main crane]

Technically yes

[fluid pewter]

Update, this reference is still killing me

And it was absolutely on purpose

[strange plinth]

same timeline
but yes, the ones in the old peace feed on the flowers to not fall into the angry warmongering hive

[strange plinth]

commands first, then fully back into the hive iirc

[fluid pewter]

You’re correct, this is stated verbatim by Adis

[fresh jacinth]

🤔 interresting

[pine orchid]

the sentients in Tau are the hippie sentients

[fluid pewter]

Also question! Do we have a full list provided by DE of all honoria?

Gonna be so stressful trying to find them all 😭

[pine orchid]

I kinda wish they let us see the list in game

[fluid pewter]

Even out of game it doesn’t exist to my knowledge

That’s kinda my issue

[cunning dragon]

I bet there’s some real esoteric ones

[fresh jacinth]

I wish ther was a way tho get the old armor fore khal and his brothers

[fluid pewter]

I know there’s | testing real quick |

okay yeah it is double lol

I know there’s || ones for each romanceable character, ones for collecting all accolade glyphs, and one for spamming the roathe fight || and those are about as niche as Im finding so far

[fresh jacinth]

🤔

[pine orchid]

I'm definitely not getting the ||other romanceable characters one, I can't do that to my boy Arthur||

[cunning dragon]

I really need to play more in 1999

[fluid pewter]

Well DE official statement, « || it’s not cheating if it’s time travel,|| »

[strange plinth]

stupid statement. if you can travel time like distance, its still cheating.

[pine orchid]

respectfully, I disagree with DE's sentiment on this 😂

[fresh jacinth]

I have another question. How did we /balas and who every also kame from the orokin system. Travel tho tau? The first atempt was a masiv failur. So how did the do it later?

[fluid pewter]

The void, we had long since discovered its utility by this point

[strange plinth]

the sentients built a solar rail on the way there
same way we travel between planets in the origin system, just a much longer one

[pine orchid]

they also had a functioning Solar Rail at that point

[fluid pewter]

The game also addresses this during the campaign, the Zariman 10-0 was a complete failure, but successive ships like the …5…something? lol made it just fine

[pine orchid]

but right now in present day it's non functional

[fresh jacinth]

Oh. Ok.

[strange plinth]

zariman 10-0 had a ton wrong with it tbf
first manned zariman iirc, agri-biomes sabotaged, wally, one giant void jump rather than a ton of small ones, etc etc

[fluid pewter]

It’s already been proven the jump distance really wasn’t the issue, they just had the math wrong

[fresh jacinth]

[fluid pewter]

The agri biomes were also just poor Hombask trying to go home 😭

[bright temple]

(also it won’t be cheating cuz your 1999 partner will consent to you dating one of the triad)

[pine orchid]

tbf, by that point it's a polycule

[fresh jacinth]

Like rebeca sayd. Time travel is not cheating 👀

[pine orchid]

I'd say more so consenting polyamorous relationships is not cheating

[fluid pewter]

The Zariman 10-0 at the end of it all was just the perfect feast for wally, which is why it alone went so wrong

[strange plinth]

i wish that some wouldn't.
like lettie already said she wasn't into that kind of thing, but the patchnotes say something like 'will consent to it'
seems odd to me, idk
not sure if its too early for anyone to have those chats or not tho

[fluid pewter]

So much…uniqueness all aboard one tiny vessel

[fresh jacinth]

I m not shure if tiny Vessel is the right wording. That thing is MASSIV

[strange turtle]

“Tiny”

5 figure population

[pine orchid]

I've had one where Arthur mentioned he's content with us pursuing relationships with others in other timelines and just knowing in this one we're his... iirc
but I still don't wanna XD

[fluid pewter]

I’ll still never get over how good this lore is at tying together old quests, making Rell a bastion against the indifference because he had to learn to identify and control his emotions

Y’all all jumping on the word tiny and yet the Zariman was one of many, i.e. a tiny portion of the population compared to where else the indifference may lie

[strange plinth]

tbf it is absolutely tiny compared to the environment it spent 90% of its time in

[pine orchid]

I love Rell, tism representation qwq
I relate to him with my needing 3 business days to process emotions

[fluid pewter]

exactly, he’s arguably my favorite character in this game

[fresh jacinth]

The fact that 2 side quests (rell and umbra ) have so much impact tho the Main stroy is crazy.

[fluid pewter]

And as the story adds, it makes it so much better

[fluid pewter]

I dunno who told you those are side quests

[dusky sandal]

So... is there a reason why this door is open but we're blocked by a wall from going further? ||Lotus is in there in the corner too.|| This was after completing The Old Peace btw I looked for and found this room

[strange plinth]

guessing its a bug, that's probably a way to access the refractory from the sanctum

[fresh jacinth]

🤔

[pine orchid]

where is that?

[fluid pewter]

Could be a glitched tile from where they had to render the room?

But no clue why they’d render the room in the sanctum instead of a new zone altogether

[pine orchid]

wait if they rendered the room in the sanctum why couldnt they let us access the dark refractory through there 😭

let me jump into the funny pool!

[strange plinth]

unless you were supposed to be able to access it from there
the door into that hall didn't open at all prior

[dusky sandal]

Down these stairs below Bird 3's platform

[fresh jacinth]

I also love tho smal refernz wer ouer own carackter says rap tap rap tap in one of the old peace missions

[manic rover]

wait wrong screenshot

[pine orchid]

I'll check it out when I get on later, thanks!

[fluid pewter]

Yeah I was like??

[manic rover]

There. The message right before.

[fluid pewter]

Surely he’s a horribly unreliable narrator lmao

[dusky sandal]

It didn't open at all prior, and Lotus is standing in a place she wasn't during the quest

[strange plinth]

yea. guessing we're supposed to be able to access it but something went wrong and we're not allowed atm

[dusky sandal]

Also go look out where Lotus was originally standing during Lotus Eaters. Her pager is on the floor and is ringing and the background of the Indifference is different now too

[manic rover]

he was obviously Nitokh's (the woman Executor) right hand man and dare I say.. side chick

[pine orchid]

maybe... they might implement it later? like would make sense why the current method of accessing the pool is kinda out there

[manic rover]

Also Roathe can send voice messages so cool

[pine orchid]

I did see, I was surprised because I was like where's our space mom??? I didn't notice the door bcs after jumping around a bit looking for the refractory I just opened Q... and found the cathedral instead

[dusky sandal]

Honestly I pray we can go back to the old Orokin area some more. I was hoping we'd have some sort of new Backrooms there haha

[strange plinth]

Roathe loving his own voice so much that he sends a voice message instead of typing /s

[pine orchid]

I assumed we would've, but I'm glad I took the time to look at the old statues when we had the chance
maybe it'll be smth for tau update?

[dusky sandal]

Didn't get that far with Roathe yet but that's literally just Rebecca squeezing as many voice lines as possible from her man crush for sure 🤣

[fluid pewter]

Oh yes but the exact quote of him implying he killed them all

[pine orchid]

clearly it's because Orokin have no need to do manual labour and that includes typing /j

[fluid pewter]

Also Roathe seems…awfully sure of himself

He sees himself as much stronger than Ballas could ever dream

[dusky sandal]

Well they said to stay tuned for an announcement at The Game Awards tonight but I can't imagine it being anything crazy big, unless I'm wrong lol

[fluid pewter]

They literally said it’s a huge announcement hahah

[strange turtle]

Theres voices when you go to it so I assume we just need to rank up with the Triad first

[manic rover]

I don't think he was the one to kill them all. Nitokh decided to go against the rest of the Seven. We don't know the exact reason but from the single line in the Old Peace, it seems she is part of a "third" party

[fluid pewter]

It’s likely the Tau update for next year

[fluid pewter]

Well…it doesn’t seem, she outright is the benefactor for the anarch’s

[strange plinth]

hm, maybe

[dusky sandal]

I would have imagined they'd save that for TennoCon but that would mean they have something even more planned for TennoCon then o.o

[fluid pewter]

And evidently the girl was just bored

God forbid a girl have hobbies

[strange plinth]

probably just the next update like they did w/ koumei, doubt its tau

[manic rover]

Yeah but looking at Ballas ending up breaking the peace, I wouldn't say she sides with him

[lean garden]

he uh, very much didnt kill the other orokin

[fluid pewter]

My brother in christ the next update’s Tau 😭

[manic rover]

That line does sound like something straight out of Chainsaw Man

[strange plinth]

Tau would fit being the end-of-the-year update next year, not the next update??

[lean garden]

in fact unless he got the remaining 2/3 Seven, even the grineer have more Seven kills

[manic rover]

She may have played part in the night of the naga drums

[fluid pewter]

Well the next update would be an echoes, like every update has received for the last 4 years

And then with something as big as Tau, we’d likely delay

[manic rover]

I'm certain the next update will cover the night of the naga drums

[fluid pewter]

I’m praying it does, we keep getting teased

[manic rover]

We gonna see Temple and Octavia dancing to the screams of the Orokin

[dusky sandal]

DE is very good at surprising us with flipping stuff around but that's what makes me so excited about updates for this game so we'll see haha

[fluid pewter]

Jade Shadows bringing it up after YEARS of silence has me itching for it

[pine orchid]

I assumed we'd get Tau early, because the Old Peace quest (imo) felt quite rushed in its storytelling

[strange plinth]

really? i doubt the drums will ever be revealed tbh

[manic rover]

Also, we got confirmation that there are SEVERAL Uriels which is pretty cool. Every loyal soldier to Roathe became one with the first of them being "Uriel Prime"

[pine orchid]

I think naga drums is a reasonable guess given what we got from the history of tau secret

[dusky sandal]

The Old Peace felt like a prelude tbh

[fluid pewter]

Well…yeah

That’s like, the whole point, no?

[lean garden]

nah dude, shed be the target

[fluid pewter]

Strengthen our operators, establish the lore of how we reach Tau, and set expectations

[manic rover]

We are currently uncovering our past. I believe they are building up the past so the ACTUAL Tau is more hyped

[pine orchid]

yes, and that's why I thought the reason for it being so quick instead of letting us take our time and building an attachment to adis, valdur, etc is if they needed us to have the context quickly for tau

[strange plinth]

Old Peace is the Whispers In The Walls of Tau
we saw old tau, like we got a glimpse of 1999 in whispers

[manic rover]

She could've survived you know. If you are one of the main driving forces of a riot, you would know when it happens

[strange plinth]

that's.. why ballas escaped?

[manic rover]

1999 and Old Peace seem to go hand in hand but they have.. so drastically different goals

[dusky sandal]

Maybe Tau is closer in sight than we think then.. I really wonder how big of an update it'll be when it drops then

[pine orchid]

if Tau comes end of next year, surely they can spread out the story a little bit over the course of more missions like a bounty system but with the refractory?

[celest needle]

1999 is what the drifter is doing while The old peace is what the operator is doing

[lean garden]

there are like several driving factors for the night of naga drums, each sufficient on its own to end the Seven, and only one of those drivers is an orokin, which is ballas

[pine orchid]

and 1999 you need time to establish your relationship with them before resolving their story line (granted not everyone was a fan of this system)

[strange plinth]

like that plot point has already been used, by ballas. he set up the whole plan to take down the empire as well

[manic rover]

Yeah but both of the quests are things planned by Albrecht so they should have a mutual goal in the end.

[lean garden]

plus like, where would Niktoh be able to coordinate with the tenno?

[fluid pewter]

I will say in terms of the update being short, this has to be the shortest warframe farm in history lol

[celest needle]

Okay also how does Uriel manage to mucking FLY up to Tau😭

It's so cool but is he just a missile

[lean garden]

his 1 does exactly that lol

[crimson bobcat]

||so lotus has diffrent dialog at end depending on if you spare the annoying cephalon or if you kill him||

[pine orchid]

yes Xd

[celest needle]

Go go gadget descendia gas eximus party

[strange plinth]

mutual goal is tau
but there's absolutely some stuff between now and tau
like. koumei and jade weren't really related to whispers or 1999, but they were between them in the update cycle

[manic rover]

Oh right, Ballas was the "traitor", wasn't he? Perhaps, there was 2 sides to the great fall of the Orokin. An external that was the Tenno going against the Orokin and the Orokin(Nitokh) themselves killing eachother. Everyone for themselves kind of approach

[fluid pewter]

Literally a 15 minute farm lmfao

[rapid kindle]

man i liked the quest but i wish some of our other villains got built up more as opposed to ballas for the millionth time

[pine orchid]

SHE DOES?! I ||killed him on sight, what does she say otherwise?||

[manic rover]

Koumei, Jade and Nokko were "in-between" updates

[pine orchid]

TRUE I wanted to see more of the other Orokin, like that one they mentioned was backing the anarchs

[strange plinth]

y
yeah? that's what i said?

[crimson bobcat]

||we had our revenge if you spare him||

[celest needle]

So he can just bullet into space from the planets surface and crash into Tauron

[manic rover]

but considering Jade Shadows is a MAIN quest, the Stalker may have a minor role later on. Perhaps a small deus ex machina

[rapid kindle]

right?!?!?!? like they namedrop them and show their statues only to not use them at all except in passing mentions

[pine orchid]

||is that as in, he dies either way just by us or later?||

[celest needle]

To be fair 80% of them by the time of the current game are DEAD

[fresh jacinth]

Can annyone explane tho me why margulus has no eyes wen we meet her at the end of the last quest o.o 👀

[manic rover]

they are not part of the main questline (except maybe Jade Shadows, we don't know yet why it's a main quest)

[pine orchid]

I would've taken interactable plaques at their statues too!

[manic rover]

War Within had mentioned she was caring one of the Tenno and they accidentally blinded her

[dusky sandal]

||What does she say if you kill him? I spared him expecting him to stab us in the back, but he actually left.||

[fluid pewter]

Wdym we don’t know why 😭

It’s objectively huge chunks of story

[fresh jacinth]

Oh 🤔

[celest needle]

Rell:

[manic rover]

I MEAN, Stalker ain't part of the arc as of now. His fate ain't important to the main quests till now

[crimson bobcat]

||if you kill him she says you where used. just as she was||

[fluid pewter]

Right and Hunhow, night of the naga drums, warframe operation, etc. aren’t mainline

[fresh jacinth]

DE i wahnt space dad news 👀

[strange plinth]

again, that's what i was saying.
they aren't related to the big updates that surround them
Tau 2026 can be at the end of the year while still being a direct continuation of Old Peace, with standard updates between them

[manic rover]

yeah, I'm not denying that?

[dusky sandal]

||Hmm so was that Cephalon actually bad then or was he just under control of Ballas, because sure he hated the Sentients but I had expected him to try to kill us if we let him go and he just ran off.||

[rapid kindle]

I think the one backing the anarchs isn't, at least to my knowledge

[manic rover]

Daklo considered himself to be one of our friends

[celest needle]

Most likely killed afterward, or at least during the night of naga drums if he lived.

[manic rover]

daklo WOULD BE DEFINITELY one of those racists that would say "us white people gotta stick together" 😭

[fresh jacinth]

👀

[stiff fable]

in perfect fairness, as a cephalon he probably survives getting blown up

The question is whether he'll keep his memories when we meet him on Tau

[pine orchid]

I saw it as him sucking up to us, which is bold considering he was threatening us with Caliban Prime being all "I wonder which of you will it strike first"

[manic rover]

correction, that one probably didn't survive but there might have been different iteritions of him

[strange plinth]

we know that karishh, avantus, and tuvul died during the drums
we know that ballas died in the new war
nitokh, scarne, and. whoever the other one was. are unknown, but safe to assume as dead

[flat flame]

If Uriel wasn't primed back in the old peace does that mean he was even older

[stiff fable]

nah it's like Ordis, I think

[strange plinth]

Roathe mentions a Uriel Prime, though?

[pine orchid]

ALSO! THEY DIDN'T FIX THE SUBTITLES IN THAT PART! ppl were telling me it was Adis that called Daklo "Stupid" but there was no subtitle name which is like what would be like if the subtitle was for us

[strange plinth]

voice is definitely adis's tho

[manic rover]

He saw Caliban as "one of those sentients" that can go rogue in any moment. He wasn't threatening us. He was basically saying "I want to see you when I will be proven right"

[rapid kindle]

nitokh is ||mentioned by roathe in a voice message|| so we might get more on that

[crimson bobcat]

||i am not really shure tbh sombody else need to explain that if you kill him she says you where used. just as she was is you spare him we had our revenge||

[flat flame]

Hm
I might've missed a few things

[dusky sandal]

If there's anything I've learned in like... video games ever, is that when given most choices like that, I give the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Considering Ballas being the disgusting piece of garbage that he was, it wouldn't surprise me if even the Cephalon was bullshitted into believing stuff from the Orokin as well, so I let him be lol

[pine orchid]

I do have a bit of trouble recognizing voices sometimes so I depend on the subtitles a lot, and that threw me off 😭

[manic rover]

Roathe said Uriel Prime was his first soldier to become Uriel

[celest needle]

Theree were multiple Uriel's,

[manic rover]

Specifically, an entire battalion

[flat flame]

I see

[stiff fable]

Roathe turned his ENTIRE LEGION into Uriel Warframes

[celest needle]

Helminth must've had a field day

[strange plinth]

well, yeah, he was basically right beneath her in the hierarchy. he's going to mention her if its relevant

[manic rover]

he made it plenty clear that they wanted to
Roathe had very loyal soldiers
And I just realized, he probably use his battalion of Uriels to enact chaos in Tau.. hence his name Devil of Tau

And looking at how we find a random uriel in Old Peace, he had already started

There were probably "caged" Uriels all around Perita

And to be clear, those Uriels WEREN'T piloted by Tenno.

[strange plinth]

only the one we steal is

[manic rover]

Which may or may not have ended up destroyed

[lean garden]

I remember this, I didnt remember to see who said it in the actual quest lol, so who said it?

[strange plinth]

adis did
w/ control of the camera you can also see daklo turn towards him a lot more clearly lol

[manic rover]

Margulis and the Lotus having the same personality is a bit off though. Margulis should've been more emotionally expressive than the Lotus 🤔

[strange plinth]

do we know 100% that that was margulis
i heavily feel like it could've been lotus?

[dusky sandal]

Off-topic but didn't Rebb mention that we would be able to get the outfit the Operator wore in The Old Peace quest, or was I mistaken?

[pine orchid]

I thought for sure they would've fixed it if it was Adis, maybe it's a bug(?)

[manic rover]

Margulis is a mother to the Tenno. Lotus has that "I don't know how to be a mother but I'll do my best" demeanor

[strange plinth]

its the tauron suit, was in caliban prime access
but he'll be in resurgence in like a week, so you can buy it with regal aya there

[manic rover]

Lotus came after the death of Margulis. In Old Peace, Ballas acknowledges the presence of "his consort"

[strange plinth]

if lotus was appearing fully as margulis, in such public places, would ballas still not refer to her as his consort?

[stiff fable]

It's still Margulis. Protecting the Operator is the true reason why she was executed.

[pine orchid]

what if the Margulis we glimpsed at the beginning was the last time we actually see her?

[stiff fable]

This actually logically makes sense

[pine orchid]

I realized too late she was speaking so I didn't register what she said at the time aside for... smth abt trusting Itzam

[stiff fable]

The Operator cost them Tau

[strange plinth]

it makes sense, yes, it just conflicts. i'm trying to figure out the conflicts in a non-retcon way

[manic rover]

No. Margulis mentioned she would put the Tenno in a long dream at the end of Old Peace and make them forget. the Lotus is present during the night of the naga drums...

hmm

[strange turtle]

Said to have him report to her daily, she didn’t trust the Orokin

[stiff fable]

I think if anything the explanation will be "the players didn't have full context and so this was actually that"

When in fact it's because they only came up with the idea years later

[pine orchid]

ah that's what it was, thank you! I'm probably gonna replay the whole quest again alongside my friend, to see what I may have missed the first time around

[manic rover]

Just remembered the Erra cutscene from Prelude to War.

Margulis puts the Tenno in the capscules of Lua for the "long dream".
Margulis dies because she "hid" the Tenno
The Lotus comes up shortly after and wakes the Tenno.
Erra watches the Lotus guiding the Tenno against the Sentients
Night of the Naga Drums
the Long Dream

[stiff fable]

if you squint the lines can almost be read to be about a specific incident, (even though they're clearly not)

[strange plinth]

everything prior was fairly explict that margulis was executed because she got in the way of the tenno being weaponized
silver grove changes it a little, with margulis still being alive for a bit after the tenno started using frames, but could still reasonably be executed after that
old peace is like. that's a war right there, and she just helped to plunge us back in. then gets executed?

[manic rover]

Between Margulis dying and the Lotus waking Tenno is Ballas' conditioning of the Lotus as a "second margulis" which DIDN'T work.

[manic rover]

She had to bend the knee a bit. She dies after she attempts to hide the Tenno to Lua

[stiff fable]

Right, hence the whole "if you squint"

[manic rover]

she basically said "enough is enough" after Ballas incriminated us for the restart of the war

[lean garden]

actually... did TSD ever actually specify that she was executed for stopping us being weaponised?

[stiff fable]

The thing that lets DE excuse this is how damn long everything lasts in the Orokin Era

[stiff fable]

Margulis: "No, Ballas, no more destruction. We could heal them. Maybe they're meant to save us."

Ballas: "How can you defend those devils, Margulis, after what they've done to you?!"

Margulis: "Love looks not with the eyes but with the mind. They won't hurt anyone; I just need more time."

Ballas: "Hush, my wilted love. I cannot protect you. Tomorrow you must renounce before the Seven."```

[pine orchid]

I think the ending of the quest seems to directly imply that Margulis was executed due to her aid of us

[stiff fable]

oh dear

oh, dear

Margulis: "This will stop the voices from taking hold. You will have to dream, my angel…."

[lean garden]

ok so that doesnt specify that this was about being weaponised at all

[stiff fable]

God damn it DE

[lean garden]

hell instead its exactly what margulis said would happen at the end of the old peace

[stiff fable]

yeah exactly

[strange plinth]

agh they've recontextualized it

[stiff fable]

Like I said, they're not retconing it, but they did recontextualize it

[lean garden]

as a writer for destiny once said: its not a retcon if yall had it wrong before

[stiff fable]

which has the same effect but they get to say they didn't change anything

[strange plinth]

the next section is still a little weird after the old peace?
but i think that section was already weird

[pine orchid]

cant get an answer wrong if there was no answer to begin with

[manic rover]

Abbott(thats the name of the lead writer.. right?) bending 12 years of lore just enough to make sense

[lean garden]

Wasnt he always around?

idk his grey hair makes me feel like hes been there a long time

[manic rover]

I don't think DE had planned EXACTLY how the story would go back when warframe was mostly stealth focused

[pine orchid]

is Abbott the one who spoke in Void tongue at Tennocin?

[lean garden]

oh of course not

[strange plinth]

but yeah. that makes sense
ok, just have to reformat that section in my brain lol

[lean garden]

but a mark of decent planning would be leaving things vague enough for the future

my favourite example are the Exos from destiny

there was a throwaway line in a random D1 loretab about how someone felt like someone made the exos because they wanted to live forever

years later we get the freaking Deep Stone Crypt

and yes, someone absolutely wanted to live forever

did they plan for it back then?

HELL NO!

[dark compass]

||Platinum revives sure would've painted Adis as a greedy shit||

[stiff fable]

Look he's out of practice

[manic rover]

the soul of Adis gaining power every time it consumes platinum

[west oasis]

We were going insane a bit we did say the "rap tap tap" line

[manic rover]

funny detail
Xenaflora was found in Tau so how would it have the properties to give the sentients free will? That's because the Sentients evolved into making use of it like that

[west oasis]

It so on point that the orokin would bring the extinction of xenoflora

The sentients fought against that but in the end we just ended up causing that

[pine orchid]

unrelated but I find xenoflora cumbersome to say, I default to wanting to call them "truth-blooms"

[west oasis]

Real

[stiff fable]

maybe! But why would it make them want to be human?

[manic rover]

also xenaflora being a portmanteau of "xeno" ("foreign" in greek) and flora.. is a bit on the nose

[stiff fable]

Just proof that the next crossover will be with Xenoblade

[manic rover]

because probably sentients eventually needed to evolve free will to survive in Tau

[west oasis]

Wait if xenoflora gives freewill and singular minds to sentients how do hunhow Erra and Nahta operate

[pine orchid]

I agree, but I mean we arent exactly super cool naming our own flora and fauna so... I can see that

[stiff fable]

See that's just it though, it didn't, because they were winning the war until their hivemind broke

[glacial bough]

I mean, that's just how language uses it

[manic rover]

some more advanced tau probably developed a way to not need it anymore

[west oasis]

Maybe they're just evolved?

[stray gale]

theyre literally built diff

[stiff fable]

There's two possibilities, I think

One is that they're not native

[manic rover]

you can control a hivemind but not individual minds

[stiff fable]

other way around

oh wait, I see what you mean

[manic rover]

who are you? the government?

[pine orchid]

maybe it's easier for more advanced sentients like hunhow to develop sentience than it is the other hive-kin
like it's easier for a super computer to become sentient than it is for your fridge

[stiff fable]

Well now that you mention it....

[manic rover]

highly likely Ballas originally thought they would be able to harness the sentients again if they discarded their source of free will and become a hivemind again

[stiff fable]

but no seriously, someone mentions at the midway point that the xenoflora are the reason the war was poised to end

meaning that until the hivemind shattered the Sentients were intractable

if not winning

[pine orchid]

and then the flowers are like juicing up your fridge like a... super smart fridge...?
omg it's the ben starr fridge

[stiff fable]

anyway, two possibilities: either they're an Orokin creation seeded by the Worldseeds (big patches around them)

Or they were conceptually embodied by... someone

It's just too perfect that they work the way they do

Like, Douglas Adams "babblefish proves the nonexistence of god" level

[manic rover]

the tga segment about warframe gonna show us Hunhow giving us a ride to Tau for the Dec2026 update believe it

[fresh jacinth]

Tga?

[manic rover]

the game awards

[pine orchid]

we get to ride on space grandpa's back? 🥺

[fresh jacinth]

🤔 and why should hunhow do this? He is an enemy or do i miss somthing

[pine orchid]

he's chill with us now, he helped us get our spacemom back

[stiff fable]

Now that he's tired and not actively trying to kill us, people forget that he actually wants to do to humanity what we did to the Orokin

and only stopped because he can't manage it anymore

[pine orchid]

and also sent his little friendframe to ask us for help instead of trying to kill us all the time

[fresh jacinth]

🤔

[strange plinth]

he's sulking in the ocean "waiting to die"

[manic rover]

the message he sent during Jade Shadows and how he helped us in the new war made it look like he doesn't really care anymore

[pine orchid]

he's rlly giving cynical old man vibes 😂

[manic rover]

his only "goal" in life is Lotus at this point

he will step up as a father and stop deadnaming his daughter

[pine orchid]

I think I remember somewhere he was peptalking stalker about letting go of past grudges or smth so... he probably let go of all that by now

[manic rover]

Hunhow found out about Twitch and has been an active member of Nora Night's chat

[pine orchid]

cant rememebr if it was from the jade shadows quest or the extra website one

[stiff fable]

Jade Shadows, but his message to Stalker about it

[strange plinth]

yea i'll accept that into my headcanon

[west oasis]

||Holy hell Roathe was turning his soldiers into Uriel's||

[manic rover]

they willingly turned themselves into uriels
Also you don't need to spoiler tag in this channel

[west oasis]

A whole legion of Uriels ..

[manic rover]

Yeah.. why do you think he was called the Devil of Tau

he sent out all his Uriel-lings in Perita

thats why we find a shackled uriel

[stiff fable]

why do you think the Sentients crucified the Uriel we found

[strange plinth]

i mean that is what the dialogue option is called

[manic rover]

what do you do when you find a wild wolf?

[stiff fable]

Not disagreeing!

[strange plinth]

not crucify it, generally /s

[stiff fable]

well, you might kill it and hang its corpse as a warning to the rest

thing is, Warframes die hard

[manic rover]

warframes can't easily die so lets just "hang it" I guess

[stiff fable]

But also, the Operator just got their super revive sooooo

[west oasis]

Probably burnt a lot of xenoflora

[west oasis]

Disciples of Uriel

Wait a minute is Uriel warframe Jesus

[strange plinth]

Uriel-lings is funnier

[stiff fable]

still Warframe satan

[west oasis]

Has tons of follows
Was Crucified
Came back

[pine orchid]

ignoringnthat there was a whole legion of them, and the one that came back wasnt even the prime uriel Xd

[west oasis]

Yeah I wonder if they will be a "savior" warframe seen as a savior to both orokin and sentient

[west oasis]

Yes let's ignore that

We must push the agenda

[pine orchid]

damn religious propaganda in my warframe? 😂 /s

[strange plinth]

also ignoring that the uriel that came back did so by being puppeted by a child

[stiff fable]

what an interesting idea....

[west oasis]

May never happen also unrelated note there is a fat ahh executor

[stiff fable]

it's a natural juxtaoposition to Uriel

[stiff fable]

oh, that's the one Grendel ate in the Leverian story

[strange plinth]

yeah that's karishh

[pine orchid]

is that the one grendel ate? idr the names

[strange plinth]

mhm

[stiff fable]

Tenno only killed two of the Seven

[west oasis]

Omg that surpasses my imagination now 😭

[strange plinth]

and both of them were eaten

[stiff fable]

fam we got shown up by a Grineer with an assault saw

[pine orchid]

I do remember Grendel's lore mentioning he ate an executor that gorged himself on feasts while his people suffered so...

ig that tracks

[west oasis]

Do you think ballas fat shamed karish

Like homelander to a train

[pine orchid]

I wouldn't be surprised tbh

[west oasis]

Also karish definitely eats till his body can't handle it no more then does continuity to next body to destroy

[tight plank]

Probably this guy.

[pine orchid]

yes I was responding to the message mentioning the fat ahh executor, I saw him too lmao

[strange plinth]

iirc the leverian does mention external stomachs, though?
which doesn't match with that
they could be excluded ofc

[pine orchid]

he's built very differently from the rest of the Seven, with everyone else being tall

another standout for me was the Executor that appears to be lefthanded (as in they had their left hand augmented rsther than their right like the others)

[strange plinth]

"twelve courses for each of his twelve grafted digestive sacs"
meh, that could fit the statue

[pine orchid]

grafted tbf could still be in him

[pale cedar]

Probably looked too weird to include

[stiff fable]

probably

like the statues are supposed to make them look good

[drifting narwhal]

Some don't look good even with statues

[icy slate]

hold on...Is Adis the reason we get our revive ability?

[stiff fable]

Sure seems like it

so, maybe, maybe not

[strange turtle]

Can’t wait to see Uriel Prime at Roathe Rank 5 and it’s literally just normal Uriel in white/gold robes with long brown hair

[cunning dragon]

When you’re playing as drifter (or operator) where is the other person

[strange plinth]

watching from a void pocket, in most cases

[proper barn]

||I want like to see If we actually get loid to go see the family||

[cunning dragon]

Creepy ass space assassins

[strange plinth]

this still allows drifter to be in 1999 "while" operator is active in the origin system, as they're in different spots in time

[proper barn]

I mean who else is gonna take down the capitalists and xenophobic clones?

Or fight the eldrich being with old man yaoi,@cunning dragon

[cunning dragon]

If only there was some sort of governing class to make sure none of that happened

[proper barn]

Oh you mean the royalty that did all the crimes?

Like endless crimes.

[cunning dragon]

Allegedly

[proper barn]

That are only special cuz they say they are.

A ruiling class that has rules that they can break that you can't. That are basically royalty and live forever just cus they can?

[strange plinth]

-# allegedly? ballas confessed to a bunch of his crimes in the vitruvian lmao

[cunning dragon]

Allegedly confesses to his crimes

[proper barn]

Almost like any ruiling class especially those that say they are better than you just cuz of their birth is a unjust hierarchy.

[cunning dragon]

Who led us to victory against the sentient threat

[proper barn]

Almost like any hierarchy is kinda terrible. Let's look at what is the best community in warframe. Oh it's cetus with everyone working communally.

[proper barn]

That's literally not true.

[strange plinth]

do you need to see the crimes happen for them to have happened? there's results and first-hand sources around the entire system

[proper barn]

They lost

[cunning dragon]

I’m just rage baiting yall

[strange plinth]

lotus, arguably
and that was still a whole plot

[proper barn]

HUNHOW WAS IN THE ORIGIN SYSTEM

[cunning dragon]

Obviously the orokin are bad

[proper barn]

Hannabil had crossed the alps chat.

[strange plinth]

yea but its a little fun

[proper barn]

It's just funny to me to talk about this.

Cuz even the Naga drums are after the victory which is just

"We stopped hunhow from doing his invasion"

And that's enough to be counted as a victory very funny.

[manic rover]

Grandmother's name is.. Dagath..?

[proper barn]

Have you listened to

Dagaths story? @manic rover

[strange plinth]

yea, she gave her name to the frame, as she had nothing else to give
there's a bunch more context but that's the essentials

[proper barn]

I was gonna

Leave it vauge until they watched it.

[manic rover]

I do remember you basically find out about Dagath through Grandmother and how she named her such but I didn't know Dagath was HER OWN name

[proper barn]

I mean Orokin/just this universe names matter a lot.

I could go into like how warframe deals with identity and family through names.

@manic rover

Btw

Some people get confused.

[manic rover]

Vilcor's original name is Petros acoording to Roathe now haha

[proper barn]

I don't know if I like original.

But old name.

Also family name or actual name

[manic rover]

Vilcor is his new name, Petros the old

[proper barn]

Yeah.

He was a soilder he talks about

[strange plinth]

agh i've gotta do more descendia ig

[proper barn]

How he was on RJ

Crew (father does).

[stiff fable]

ahhhhhhhhhhh

[strange turtle]

Who are the elephants in this analogy

[proper barn]

Just the sentient fleet I guess.

[manic rover]

There are Orokin above the Executors

"well at least in name" sounds to me like the Emperors were the royal family. No actual power, just merit. Just like the british royal family

[pale cedar]

Emperors when DE? Executor was so 2016

[manic rover]

They really named themselves after a pokemon

Acoording to the little Roathe speaks of, Ballas was not the worst of the Seven. Nitokh apparently was much worse

[proper barn]

Okay but it was though.

Like grinner rebelled.

Archmedians rebeled

[strange turtle]

“Archimedians obeyed the Orokin”
“Girl Entrati rejected from college on minor technicality”

[proper barn]

Like also

Stalker?

Or Umbra

[tribal gulch]

Would be cool if teshin gets back on action...

They done him dirty

[dark compass]

https://tenor.com/view/conclave-teshin-warframe-tenno-searyn-gif-12848386983779330178

[tribal gulch]

Lmao

I wish they replace the hologram with old Teshin from duviri

[strange plinth]

he seems content to be there
in duviri, i mean

[tribal gulch]

||I love the game but killing teshin i think is where they messed up||

Wait... Spoilers

[dark compass]

It's lore

[strange plinth]

this is lore chat

[dark compass]

Spoilers are prob relevant for newest story updates

[tribal gulch]

I thought that's #spoiler-chat job

[dark compass]

But not for stuff that has been out for years now

[tribal gulch]

Hmm ok

[strange turtle]

That Operator

https://tenor.com/view/war-vietnam-ptsd-shell-shock-moment-gif-3022747568394546158

[severe wing]

So... What even happened. Can someone explain this quest to me? I feel as if there are a lot of plot holes here.

Or... Not holes. Just. Inconsistencies.

[fresh jacinth]

Do we know how the got 2 prime frames under ther command. Esp with no tenno. And how this 2 esp. Protea and caliban.

[strange plinth]

ascaris prime. takes over frames
vor used an ascaris on us at the start of the game

[fresh jacinth]

Ohhh interresting. Thx.

I taught this was just a tool fore capturing and location marking

[strange turtle]

Him and Lotus says he’ll control with it later in his quest

Just gets defeated before then

[rose wave]

Just me was there a slight error?
Old peace spoilah
||during our 2nd/3rd venture to the past loid says 'too far' when we go to us storming the academy as uriel, shouldn't it be not far enough?||

[strange plinth]

||if we're trying to relive it linearly, it would be 'too far'||
||from the perspective of going back, it is not far enough||
||both are correct||

[rose wave]

Huh, true
Thanks

Curse you eternalism

[strange plinth]

the (seemingly planned) degradation of the peace treaty between the sentients and the orokin, in the middle of the old war
||Nitokh helped the anarchs to undermine the treaty||
||the xenoflora give the sentients individuality, depriving them of it reduces them to wanting orders, then falling back into the hivemind||
||xenoflora dies in air breathable to us||
||the world-seeders are activated near the end of the quest, which kills most, if not all, of the xenoflora||
||adis goes off to kill margulis for this, we try to talk him out of it, we're too late, fight w/ adis, adis gives us "his light"||
||we're the fall guy. we were at the first world-seeder to activate (because we did activate it, we just didn't know that's what we were doing), so the orokin can point at us for restarting the war||
||margulis hides us on lua anyway and will be executed for it||
i am not explaining this super well but that's a basic rundown, would need more specifics into the holes you're seeing to explain them

[ebon reef]

||I think hunhow might just be a hunhullus from the old war
The names are super similar and the sizes are also pretty aligned
Do you think hunhow is actually a smaller sentient just piloting a hunhullus?||

[strange plinth]

the shapes are very different

[tacit pagoda]

||did margulis know about this? or was she manipulated just like us? cause in the last bit of the memory we see margulis without her eyes and for a moment i thought it was de indifference||

[ebon reef]

||Since he's the father to two other sentients he could have been like a hunhullus summolyst (or however its spelt)||

[severe wing]

||Given the lore prior to the old peace about the old war. How was a peace treaty possible. It shouldn't have been given the fact that there couldn't have been time to do so.||

[strange plinth]

an unknown tenno (currently between us or rell) blinded her a while ago
||lotus claims margulis was used like we were. its possible for either to be true.||

[tacit pagoda]

||ahhhh i was so focused on hearing the indifference throughout the quests i forgot about that bit||

[ebon reef]

||Perhaps the old war is what happened after the old peace?
It seems like there were two wars if you take the dialoge from your operator to adis at the start of the quest "i cant believe we used to be at war" and then another war seeming to start at the end of the quest
Or maybe they just class it as one big war with alliances changing with the sentients?||

[strange plinth]

the first part of the old war took a while
sentients took over high tech stuff, so they made warframes. warframes went feral, so they were shelved. the tenno could heal the frames' minds, so the combination was used. necramechs are in there somewhere. ||at some point, the sentients developed individuality via consuming the xenoflora, and not all of them wanted to fight. that's when peace was brokered||

[strange plinth]

old war part 1 > old peace > old war part 2

[severe wing]

||And also why the flowers. Didn't the sentients gain it after coming back to the origin system?||

[ebon reef]

I am quite suprised we didn't see a single necramech during the quest

[strange turtle]

The project was scrapped

[tacit pagoda]

||seems like taus flora tbh||

[strange plinth]

||they developed sentience on the way to tau, but they were a hivemind. the xenoflora (native to tau) took them out of it||

[severe wing]

Ohhhhhhhhh

Okay that makes sensw

[strange plinth]

one necramech gets bodied by a ropalolyst and the whole thing gets scrapped

[viscid aspen]

The way they talked about ||the flowers made me think that was what gave them sentience instead. Do we have confirmation it was on the way to Tau?||

[fresh jacinth]

I wonder waht sentient gara destroyd 🤔 i mean that thing must be massive.

[strange turtle]

Yeah they’re the only alien life that was ever found

[viscid aspen]

Hunhullus evolution perhaps? 👀

[strange plinth]

i believe adis says it during the quest? will try to find a transcript

[strange turtle]

IIRC it was like, them having a sense of self

That the flowers gave

[fading mist]

I wonder why both lotus and indifference said "not yet" in the quest....

well about the flowers
Im not sure what they do exactly but
they keep the sentients from desiring order , which makes them getting controlled by the hivemind or something

[tacit pagoda]

||that was loid iirc||

[strange plinth]

Valdur: "'Xenoflora'. Flowers. The only real alien life we've ever found, and the Sents scarf them down like kubrow chow!
Just as well for us they did, eh, Tenno?
Suddenly they've all got minds of their own, so no more hivemind, so no more war."
looking for an adis line because i swear he says something about it too

[fading mist]

https://youtu.be/MN0FVuZRR00?t=5779
this part

Im too lazy to find a non comentary video

[fading mist]

adis part I think was during interigating the 3 targets

I can't spell

[severe wing]

One more question. ||Was that margulis or lotus at the end of the quest.||

[fading mist]

the blind? margulis

[strange plinth]

||margulis, yea||
||some older lines are vague enough that her execution has been recontextualized a little||

[tacit pagoda]

ooohh this is interesting

[fading mist]

well, basically she gets sentenced after going back to origin system I suppose

and since narmer part of the story just gets left out, I am STILL so confused on sentients, are we still majorityly enemies? or only the narmer faction led by pazuul

[severe wing]

Ohhhhhh

[strange plinth]

for the most part, yeah
hunhow is too busy sulking at the bottom of the ocean, but pazuul and the sentients in narmer are still doing their thing

there's not really any other factions of sentients that we have access to

[fading mist]

I wonder what percentage of sentients are in narmer vs not narmer...

well, can't say no to tau sentients, they're probably still there

they better not become a whole hivemind by the time we go there

[fresh jacinth]

🤔

[tacit pagoda]

maybe as the indifference was drawing in closer, it mimics/echoes whats is being said to us to confuse us further?

[strange plinth]

they ran out of the flowers a long time ago
||that's what the world-seeders did. killed all of the xenoflora||
doubt they're doing anything else

[fading mist]

perhaps both lotus and indifference did not want us to end yet

[fading mist]

could be multiple hiveminds fighting over each other, or just one left, so its just infested all over again

welp, 1 year to go

[fresh jacinth]

I still wonder how ballas was abel tho get them under his cotrol tho do tze new war. Or was this with the help of lotus🤔

[fading mist]

he can reprogram sentients

he have the knowledge

[strange plinth]

same way he collaborated with them in the old war, manipulation

[fresh jacinth]

Excuse me waht o.o

[strange plinth]

but also yes he reprograms lotus several times

[fading mist]

why else do you think we took down the orokin empire?

he made lotus

[fresh jacinth]

💀

[pale cedar]

Ballas was actually behind the naga drums which players often forget to notice or bring up

[strange plinth]

the whole plan was for the sentients to lose, then the tenno would kill the orokin, and finally natah would kill the tenno (& probably revive hunhow? i forget)
but she didn't

[fresh jacinth]

Revive hunhow ? He lives ore do you mean heal hunhow?

[strange plinth]

he was in a tomb when tyl regor found him

[fresh jacinth]

Ok

[strange plinth]

he died to some extent, slept for all those years

[pale cedar]

Revive Hunhow as in let him out

Instead she sealed him in

[fresh jacinth]

Rip

[strange plinth]

hm
i'll have to look at that again

[pale cedar]

Hunhow didn’t expect a betrayal from his child due to Ballas

[fresh jacinth]

How do sentient reproduce 🤔

I probabaly spellt taht word wrong. I mean getting kids

[fading mist]

do you think valdur could be alive

[strange plinth]

no its spelled right
its just not really detailed
fragmentation is fairly simple, but creating a whole new sentient isn't

[pale cedar]

We’ve never seen it happening actively so had to tell

[fading mist]

well, truth bloom can heal.. perhaps something similar

[strange plinth]

nah. died in the war or shortly after it

[strange turtle]

More than likely not, unless he got put in cryo for whatever reason

[pale cedar]

Grineer don’t live long

[strange plinth]

prime grineer being alive - or even intact, if dead - would be a possible threat, if the current grineer found out

[fading mist]

well, at least he was a good guy

[strange turtle]

Ig Prime Grineer could have longer lifespans, but it’s not likely that it’d be on the same level as the normal long life we’ve seen

[pale cedar]

That Primed status ran out with the Orokins death

[fading mist]

they 100% needs to fix the old peace walking sequence, that walking animation is badddd 🤣

[silk tide]

we can talk old peace spoilers here right

[pale cedar]

Which walking sequence there’s a lot of walking in Old Peace

[fading mist]

the one towards uriel

[silk tide]

the zoomed out one I imagine

[strange plinth]

spoiler tag the big stuff, but yes

[pale cedar]

One where we go rage mode?

[silk tide]

||so like did margilus not have eyes or can we not remember what they looked like||

[fading mist]

no, the one we walked TOWARDS uriel

[pale cedar]

A Tenno blinded her

[silk tide]

oh

[strange plinth]

no eyes, blinded by a tenno, we've known for a bit

[silk tide]

right rell

[strange plinth]

rell or us, yea

[silk tide]

I forgor bout that

[pale cedar]

We don’t even know if it was Rell

Just a Tenno

[silk tide]

the quest I mean thats where it was mentioned right

[fading mist]

during the caretaking of the tenno, due to our uncontrollable power, one of the tenno accidently blasted her eye

[strange plinth]

i think its first mentioned in TSD? but don't quote me on it

[silk tide]

so the events of this quest were followed immedeiatly by the margilus stuff we hear during second dream I imagine?

[strange plinth]

pretty soon after, yeah

[pale cedar]

TSD she mentions that even blinded you don’t need eyes to love which is funny because sometime after she cast out Rell specifically

[strange plinth]

screw this one child in particular

[fading mist]

rip rell, the autism strikes once again

I wonder how many times has lotus been controlled by wally... it happened quite often...

[strange plinth]

huh

[pale cedar]

Never

[fading mist]

there are several cinematic where lotus' eye was changed to red glow

[fresh jacinth]

I probabaly ignort it. But rell got his warframe from the iron (somthing. I forgot the second part) or i m wrong?

[pale cedar]

She pushed Wally away

[fading mist]

especially the one we blasted erra

[silk tide]

Like the talking about the seven and margilus being put under the jade light was presuably because of covering for us here?

Iron wake?

idk why I made that as a reply imma be honest

[pale cedar]

Lotus didn’t even believe Wally was real for a while

[strange plinth]

there's one that i can think of
but wally's signature is the oily black eyes, not glowing red

[silk tide]

she can't see wally right

[pale cedar]

She did in TNW

[strange plinth]

claims she can't, unknown if she actually can't

[silk tide]

like how the cephalons can't see the void stuff

[fading mist]

she defainiyl saw wally in TNW
I mean, in the old peace, we even only called it "the voice"

[pale cedar]

She can see Wally she just wanted to give us comfort by acting like she didn’t

[strange plinth]

she can definitely hear him, though. drowning out the voidsong with her own voice

[silk tide]

I do like the fact that this means wally talked to us way more back then

[fading mist]

perhaps its only very apparantly now that wally has taken full form

[pale cedar]

She directly pushed Wally away in Lotus Eaters refusing to let the noise get to her

[silk tide]

but I am slightly confused

why ballas looks so different

[pale cedar]

Wdym

He’s just wearing new clothes

[strange plinth]

looks more ceremonial
which makes sense as he's actually supposed to be important during this period

[silk tide]

he looked way bluer

[pale cedar]

That’s just new lighting

[fading mist]

bunch of wally eye tenno.. and lotus with red glow, hmmm

[pale cedar]

The skin colour changes with the lighting he’s always been blue

[silk tide]

aren't they just like asleep in this

[strange plinth]

hmm i wonder who the main character is /s
what would wally's motive be in this scene? why would he be there at all

[silk tide]

could just happen to look like that

[fading mist]

the eyes are open, but black and red/orange, just like when wally appears in orbiter

[strange plinth]

occam's razor, it makes far more sense for that to just be the lotus

[silk tide]

this is from the erra prolouge right

[fading mist]

yes

[sonic cedar]

i have a silly question regarding new quest.

||Why the hell is there no epilogue where we share new intel with Hunhow we literally know where he is and he would likely love to know that person responsible for the war is dead for good||

||Frankly also Pazuul||