lore-discussion

[fast dew]

No i think ballas had a hand in the rebellion still

[stiff beacon]

probably

[fast dew]

There is, but Albrecht is one of the most important ones to date, outside the 7.

[stiff beacon]

its a reasonable assumption

[fast dew]

Roathe was a military Commander and whatever a regent is in regards to the orokin

[stiff beacon]

maybe thats why he looks different in appearnce then the standard orokin look

[fast dew]

Ehhh

No, i don't see it.

Every orokin outside of Albrecht looks pretty similar.

Albrecht even as a blue orokin was similar bar the lack of a long arm

[stiff beacon]

roathe doesnt have the arm either

[fast dew]

Which annoys me.

To no end.

Roathe just looks like if we used a refacia kit on a person

A regular person.

[stiff beacon]

hes a darker blue, his hair doesnt look like rope, his eyes are completely different and his teeth look like fangs

[fast dew]

Ehh the blue is fine

The official renders mellows it out

[violet storm]

Maybe Roathe is a more Boots-on-the-ground than most orokin

[fast dew]

He looks somewhat normal here instead of that vibrant blue

[fast dew]

Nup, cus so was Vilcor.

[violet storm]

Considering his position of grand carnus

[strange plinth]

i'm not seeing the issue with roathe not being a 'typical orokin'
he wasn't super fashionable for the time, so what?

[fast dew]

He is just a regular dude w blue skin. It feels like they didn't want to go into full orokin mode for whatever reason.

[fast dew]

Nor was Albrecht, and he still looks identifiably orokin

Even the lack of those white eyes

God it annoys me so badly.

[violet storm]

Orokin do a have a tendency to change bodies occasionally, even if temporarily

[fast dew]

"Orokin protoframe irs a orokin protoframe" and its just a bluedude with none of the hallmarks of a orokin outside the blue skin (which isn't even a product of kuva)

It frustrates me because i know they can do better

[proper barn]

orokin are regular people.

[fast dew]

[stiff beacon]

when the 7 weve met previously before albrecht have the same design philosophy, seeing roathe actively make the old gears turn

[proper barn]

They just use the kit and lengthen their arms.

[fast dew]

EVEN ALBRECHT HAS IT

We knew him as the blue version first

[stiff beacon]

im not talking about painting albrecht

[fast dew]

The painting and the statues predate his appearance in 1999, so i go off that first

Even those lacking hair still look like a orokin (Vilcor and Nihil)

I don't know what it is, but Roathe fundamentally doesn't look like a orokin

[strange plinth]

at depicting what we know as a typical orokin, sure. but it would seem they didn't want to, if that's for technical reasons (i would imagine the longer arm would interfere with practical animations, and the eyes with the energy customization the other protos have had), or for stylistic reasons

[stiff beacon]

i get it the pointy ears are throwing me off a bit to

[fast dew]

If they wanted the skeleton to match Uriel's, then follow up on the fact roathe is literally the progenitor of Uriel.

Make Uriel have the same arm.

[strange plinth]

the skeleton has to match other frames, because they need to be able to use the same animations

[fast dew]

Animations break all the damn time, they don't care about that.

Jade's animation doesn't fit on literally any other frame with slim hips

[strange plinth]

that does not create the same problem that one arm much longer than the other would create

[fast dew]

Then you make two sets of animations! One internally for uriel specifically and the other for the other warframes!

[stiff beacon]

look theres probably a logical reason he looks like a regular dude who joined the blue man group

[fast dew]

I hate it.

It all feels so poorly planned.

Even them having a kim system and them using the sanctum computer

[strange plinth]

we'll see in 3 days i suppose

[fast dew]

I just wish they took more time for it

They can do so much better

[stiff beacon]

lets just let them cook and lets just hope at least that the update isnt broken on release

[fast dew]

I aint gonna lie it probably is gonna have horrid optimisation issues like 1999 does

[stiff beacon]

as long as the doors work properly im happy

[south sun]

1999's main thing is the larger above-ground area with the volumetric fog.

[stiff beacon]

theres fog?

[south sun]

The long sightlines with that fog are what can hurt perf.

[fast dew]

Reckon that's gonna get any better with what we've seen with the rebellion area?

Its also wide and open and has fog.

[south sun]

Depends on how dense it is.

[stiff beacon]

honestly never noticed it had fog

[fast dew]

Did... did we watch the same thing 😭

Literally the first thing we see of the moon is fog

[stiff beacon]

huh neat

[south sun]

more fog in other seasons, but even a lot now

[barren jasper]

theres so much fog in the mall

[waxen mesa]

Are the Tenno "at war" with corpus and grineer or do we just target the ones that misbehave or mettle with things they shouldn't

[proper barn]

at war i would say.

[stiff fable]

Not directly because we can't take the heat

We offer outselves as mercenaries to both sides to strategically weaken their war effort/keep them fighting each other

[digital echo]

ngl the obvious answer there is probably correct in that regard, considering some of the things the devs have already done like all the recent frame heirlooms

[south sun]

Though nuns have already been stated as a thing for Dualism via Eleanor's chats.

Marie being a Dualism nun wasn't remotely surprising imo.

[lean garden]

the question I have for you is why did you think that that important bit of info would have been the same kind of flavour as what would have been in the second set of notes lol

Like theres a strange expectation here that just because albrecht has been forthcoming with some of his endeavours, that it means that he'll keep all the notes on his endeavours in the same place

like Im not even betting that we have more notes down at the cathedral, but given where we've found the other two sets of notes...

the information that you think should have been with the sanctum set would more likely be in the cathedral than in the sanctum

[fast dew]

What i mean is that they plan shit before they do it, which is shown by Albrecht's notes, it feels like they added it on without regard of the notes

While the notes can have an explanation ingame of why its not there, the irl reason is that they didn't plan it

[lean garden]

which is shown by Albrecht's notes...

you mean the notes which are primarily written as a record of things that have already happened?

The whisper notes that came after they already revealed the protoframes?

[fast dew]

Aoi and Arthur, right? It leaves room for the others

It doesn't leave room for the triad, thats the issue. The triad had already happened when he finished the notes, lorewise.

[lean garden]

so is your point of contention that DE didnt leave room for the triad or that DE didnt put that into the notes

because right now youre arguing for both simultaneously

[fast dew]

Albrecht was written far before he was shown physically, the possible existence of other protos were left open, even human Loid was hinted years before he was shown, why didn't they do the same for the triad?

Simple answer, they weren't planned.

[lean garden]

the possible existence of extra protos was hinted at in the KIM

[lean garden]

awfully confident there

[fast dew]

... its not really that.

[lean garden]

like extremely awfully confident

[fast dew]

It feels poorly planned.

[lean garden]

sure, feel what you feel

[fast dew]

Dude.

[lean garden]

you can absolutely feel like maybe it wasnt pre-planned that far ahead

but to definitively state that is a whole different ball game

[fast dew]

Objectively, its poorly planned. They've shown that they are capable of allowing it, so why didn't they? What other possible reason is there that explains the lack of allowing room for the triad.

[lean garden]

The fact that they've already hinted at more protos after the round table came in

Arthur 6.2

[fast dew]

Did they not come out in the same year

The round table and the triad

The triad probably came in with them, ill say that

But it feels like they didn't think that the notes kinda should've said that

[lean garden]

so... the triad came as part of the same cycle as the roundtable? thats what youre saying?

in terms of irl planning

[fast dew]

I think so, which is why they can allow room there, but for the triad, it doesn't feel the best. The triad aren't related to the hex, so allowing room for their existence there feels bad

Im saying they should've allowed their existence earlier rather than what feels like a last minute addition

[lean garden]

Now Im confused. Is the issue that you dont feel like the execution of the triad isnt the best or that its impromptu?

[lean garden]

because this says execution

[lean garden]

and this says impromptu

[lean garden]

but this precludes impromptu

[fast dew]

Both? Idk how to explain it well 😭

Im bad at talking hold on

Im saying that both the execution of the triad and the planning aren't the best.

I think that they planned for more protos in general, not for them to be in a whole other time

[lean garden]

like you can hold both sure, but you did just drop a statement which means that you dont think it impromptu because theyre also part of the other proto set

[fast dew]

HHH

The story around the new protos specifically

[lean garden]

ah ok this makes more sense

[fast dew]

Im bad at explaining it

[lean garden]

your issue is contingent on that theres a disconnect between the timesets of protos

[lilac aspen]

I have a feeling the Triad will be the final piece of how the Drifter will follow after Albrecht to Tau

Albrecht was our reason to go to Tau
Kaya developed the method of how the Hex can follow us to the present
Triad might be the group studying Albrecht’s stuff he left around to actually get us to Tau without like, getting killed

[lean garden]

thats where its really at

[fast dew]

Those are words too complex for my brain to know

[dark compass]

Should've just used mesmer skin

[lean garden]

eeeeer, because link no direct and clear from 1999 protos to 1899+ protos, it feels icky to you

[fast dew]

Ohhh

[stiff fable]

I think it's more likely the Triad will explain how the protos get void energy

[fast dew]

Yeah!

[stiff fable]

Since the Triad's whole deal is "void expeditions"

[fast dew]

Oh its a autism thing

I don't like the breakage of patterns

[lean garden]

its par for the course for DE to drop whole lore drops that reshape how we're supposed to understand things with little to no hints

the real issue you find is that theres no inherent link between this and that

[lean garden]

because DE's writing philosophy is "write(ride) it like you stole it"

so anything thats not captured by broader strokes comes as truck-kun

[fast dew]

I just wish they did better

[stiff fable]

Breaking the pattern IS DE's pattern

1999 was revealed out of nowhere

[lean garden]

Now Im betting at least 2 credits that the 1899 protos are actually from after 1999

[stiff fable]

Lotus betraying the Operator came out of nowhere

[fast dew]

Well, whispers was the start of a new arc wasn't it?

[stiff fable]

No, actually

Angels was

When 1999 was revealed there was a HUGE pushback from parts of the fandom

[fast dew]

Which was kinda dumb

Dawg all warframes were humans once

[normal mountain]

Hmm
So..
If they went a predictable path with a plotpoint lore
That would be an extraordinary leap for them?
I can see it

[stiff fable]

No it wasn't that

It was the existence of a timetravel arc

since that didn't match the pattern

[lean garden]

I meaaaaan theres also the umbra glazers

[stiff fable]

The protos were their own separate thing

YEAH lol

[lean garden]

who complained that the existence of the protos would have cheapened umbras story, like trauma is somehow a zero sum game

[normal mountain]

I'm still going to be upset about the Somatic Fiber nerf

[stiff fable]

I for one welcome Warframe turning into Pokemon Gen 4

[fast dew]

.... yet there's already tbe concept of alternative timelines? Which we know? Idk its not too hard of a stretch to assume you can time travel 😭

[lean garden]

sorry folks, the supply of trauma is all dried up

[stiff fable]

Alternate timelines don't exist for the player

[fast dew]

I mean

Drifter is right there

[lean garden]

but we already got that in PoE release

with all the mining

[stiff fable]

HA

You're right, Warframe's always been Gen IV

We had the TIME arc, now it's time for the SPACE arc

[lean garden]

if you think about it warframe is now hitting gen uh 7?

because now we have Z moves

[stiff fable]

And we'll finish it off with the anti-matter (void) arc

[stiff fable]

Wait

The Vessels

[lean garden]

gen 8 babey

[normal mountain]

And then in about a decade we'll get the god arc

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/eevee-pokemon-land-gif-15313843

[celest needle]

Reverse Titania When?

[stiff fable]

except it's just Excalibur

but BIG

[digital echo]

however as said earlier, the fact that she is a romance option despite being a nun is quite weird when you consider what a nun is and all that entails with a position like it

[lilac aspen]

Tbf We have no clue how Dualism religion sees relationships for their nuns and all that

[fast dew]

The dress isn't exactly telling

Long clothes are for chastity and purity, which marie has but only in certain areas

[digital echo]

probably doesnt help either with the whole christian/catholic theming they got going on for the Triad

[lilac aspen]

“Tenno, Making Wisp Proto be a French nun lady is for the plot, trust me.”

[fast dew]

Well

I hope he chose wisp for her so she could actually "walk" again

[lean garden]

Hell, depends also which denomination marie is supposed to be mirroring too

[fast dew]

Its weird actually

[lilac aspen]

Probably

[fast dew]

Eleanor says the nuns are for Lua, but Marie is for Sol

[lilac aspen]

Heretic
Burn the witch

….
Wait hold on

[fast dew]

Lua is Lyon

[spice spade]

in 2026 the next story quest will let the drifter date the lotus

[fast dew]

No thats the operator's adoptive mother-

[spice spade]

and that’s going to stop the drifter because..

he already refers to the operator as kid

[fast dew]

... thats their other self's mother, that's just weird and DE wouldn't do that methinks

[stiff beacon]

This is a next level oedipus complex like wow

[fast dew]

RIGHT

[spice spade]

im hoping for a story mission that takes us to our current generation

[stiff beacon]

Who's gonna tell him

[spice spade]

1999?

[fast dew]

Dawg

Dawg.

[spice spade]

indulge me

[stiff beacon]

Mate unless you want a post y2k world to traverse

It's not really a good idea

Or well

[spice spade]

im just saying

[restive river]

We could see something on the radiation wars later on, but we’d likely see the later ones

[stiff beacon]

It seems kinda weird right now

[restive river]

1999 is the best you get

[cosmic badge]

Post nuclear apocalyptic warframe would be a cool thing to traverse

[restive river]

After 1999 things are even worse lmao

[fast dew]

I mean

[celest needle]

-# I beg your pardon

[spice spade]

all im saying is is space mommy will be dateable by the drifter and the operator will be raised by them both that’s my fantasy and that’s where i stand goodnight

[strange plinth]

i think this is the first time i've regretted opening lore chat. what.

[fast dew]

Ew

Gross.

[digital echo]

so Fallout?

[restive river]

I mean we kinda already do that
There were 18 radiation wars

[celest needle]

Freud stop

[cosmic badge]

I guess

[cosmic badge]

Oh yea

[restive river]

Yeah no that ain’t happening like
Ever

[strange plinth]

what did i even come here for. i've forgotten.

[restive river]

You’re not even considering the Lotus’ perspective on the matter lmao

[fast dew]

Using this here because yes

[restive river]

From Lotus’ perspective the Drifter is a grown version of her child that saved her from oblivion, they’re at most her champion and at least an alt version of, again, her child.

[spice spade]

https://tenor.com/view/lotus-warframe-thats-what-she-said-jackal-gif-20144582

[strange plinth]

you think we'll get an updated emote after the rework?

[spice spade]

back to general chat it is

[cosmic badge]

I hope so

[restive river]

I expected better from this community.

[fast dew]

Unfortunately the devs aid it.

[restive river]

Eh, not when it comes to Lotus

[celest needle]

At least its not down horrendou, I've been in those spaces before

[fast dew]

True

[spice spade]

has anyone seen the new romance teaser

[fast dew]

Unfortunately.

Suddenly i remember im ace

[spice spade]

the romance was actually an alright idea aside from the fact that ur e dating in 1999

with a fake discord

[celest needle]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-wisp-wisp-protoframe-the-devils-triad-marie-leroux-gif-13517815100339038575

[restive river]

Discord’s just an evolved AoL

[spice spade]

at least you can date both

[fast dew]

Only one triad and one hex

[lean garden]

I cant believe we got here after a conversation about how its odd that a nun isnt celibate

[restive river]

Polycules will be real in 3 days

[restive river]

Different world
Different religion

[fast dew]

The triad only has multiple options open cuz its a dev build methinks

[strange plinth]

apparently discord is the only messaging app ever

[restive river]

Oh probably yeah

[fast dew]

Its egregiously inspired so lotta folk are uncomfortable w it

[restive river]

I mean the point is it feels familiar yet very different
But yeah sure ig

[lean garden]

Oh yea sure, its just that I didnt expect uh... whatever I just saw

[digital echo]

different but not different enough imo

[restive river]

It’s
A fictional religion with different rules so idk lol

[fast dew]

Why didn't they show Roathe's over Marie's

[restive river]

Oh for sure lol

[spice spade]

stop being such a hater dude

[restive river]

It does make a degree of sense if she’s been stuck lol

[fast dew]

I think it would be far more interesting to see Roathe's over Marie's methinks

[restive river]

You know why lol

[lean garden]

I think... they said something about spoilers for old peace?

[strange plinth]

lol
lmao

[fast dew]

Lmfao even

[lean garden]

lmfao even

[fast dew]

I GOT THERE FIRT

[digital echo]

firt

[lean garden]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-we-one-gif-18212100

[spice spade]

score your prize is mk1-kunai

[restive river]

Wisp is incredibly popular for
Reasons
So it makes sense that of the 3 they’d tease hers

[spice spade]

what are these supposed reasons.

[restive river]

Yeah I’m not doing that

[lean garden]

no wait thats in regards to why uriel is on the old peace splash art

[restive river]

If you know you know
If you don’t then you’ll find out

[restive river]

In an interview it sounded like Uriel specifically is in the quest??

[spice spade]

i feel like the devs are just getting more romantic and i fw with it

[strange plinth]

i am curious why lyon doesn't talk at first. what's up with him
do we have thoughts on that before release

[restive river]

I’m very curious to see what the timeline for Roathe being whisked away and then showing up as Uriel will be since
Roathe is Uriel

[celest needle]

Sprodlings did it better

[restive river]

Depending on what Albrecht told him he may not like us cause we wiped out the Orokin

Then the question is how does Albrecht or the Triad know about that

[fast dew]

... great question

[restive river]

Thankfully since the Triad is post The Hex and Old Peace we can maybe just say he took a trip to his exile briefly before going wherever he is going (likely Tau)

[fast dew]

-# more evidence to it not being well planned imo

[restive river]

No?

I don’t think we can really say that when the update isn’t out and we lack vital info to fill in these holes that
Only exist cause the update isn’t out

[strange plinth]

does the operator report mention that we killed the orokin? idr
and it seems.. somewhat likely? that he has access to it

[fast dew]

How did he go into 1899 w out a time machine then 😭

[restive river]

I don’t recall if it does but he def would have a way to access it

[fast dew]

Post 1999 i mean

[restive river]

How’d he leave 1999 without a time machine

[celest needle]

Could you turn a kuva lich into a specter?

[fast dew]

Reckon he's using a nuke again and again?

[restive river]

Albrecht just does stuff and we don’t know how yet

[lean garden]

no wait thats in regards to why uriel is on the old peace splash art

[restive river]

No that’s not why he needed that

Also we
Stop the reactor like
Forever

[lean garden]

why did that send twice

and how did I ping myself

[restive river]

Magicks

[fast dew]

Did you leave discord and open it back up again when it was sending

[lean garden]

yeap

[fast dew]

That's why i get doublesends

[lean garden]

ah yea thats exactly what I did

[fast dew]

Oh look at me knowing

[lean garden]

like specifically theres a scene in the Old Peace that features roathe/uriel

[fast dew]

Im the knower

[stiff fable]

He has a time machine tho'

[fast dew]

Well. Roathe might be behind the rebellion

[restive river]

I mean very simple way it may have gone down
Roathe is causing issues
Albrecht, prior to his last trip but after he made The Hex gets his hands on Roathe
Protoframes him and chucks him in his exile

Now since Roathe will eventually transform into Uriel the problem then is, how and in what way does Uriel show up in the quest?

[fast dew]

So maybe?

[lean garden]

and DE pointed that out and said "cant show you cuz spoilers"

[restive river]

We never actually see how he gets out of 1999

[stiff fable]

The time machine is "the little piece of Duviri he took with him"

[restive river]

Lol

[stiff fable]

Not actually joking!

[fast dew]

... thats the loop

[lean garden]

I mean yes, Im just saying what happened on the devstream

[stiff fable]

He's straight up turned his little piece of Duviri into a TARDIS

[lean garden]

which came out prior to the recap which told us which naughty orokin was doing a lil coup

[restive river]

I’m thinking Uriel will show up to do something against Roathe, causing Roathe to get nabbed by Albrecht, he then becomes Uriel, finds his way to Tau via the rail and does whatever he saw himself do
Or maybe not idk

[stiff fable]

Oh I'd enjoy that

[restive river]

I do see some issues with it but we’ll see what we ultimately get

[fast dew]

I think he got nabbed by Albrecht cuz he was risking the safety of the origin system

[stiff fable]

Someone (me) suggested Roathe being Albrecht's other child and this amuses me

[fast dew]

I did that

I said that 😭

[stiff fable]

So it's actually him saving Roathe from his own decisions

[restive river]

Ok but Albrecht specifically hates him and iirc Roathe makes a comment about Loid
So like
Really easily he could have just flirted with Loid, Loid can’t do anything cause Orokin and Albrecht “solved the problem”

[fast dew]

Loid would kill him for it now ngl

[lean garden]

me too

[fast dew]

Watching to see if loid hates Roathe as much as Albrecht must've

[restive river]

Eh

[lean garden]

I dont think uriel will do something against roathe

[restive river]

Loid could be
Entirely unaware of the situation, of why Albrecht didn’t like him

[fast dew]

Loid feels like the kinda guy to just hate on him and only not kill him bcs he's needed

[lean garden]

I think roathe is going to get albrecht needle shanked during the old peace (quest)

[restive river]

I mean if Roathe shows up and Uriel shows up then we have two Roathes at the same time so
And if Uriel is showing up it’s with a purpose

[stiff fable]

People keep telling me that the Triad use the lab PCs for KIM

[fast dew]

Yeah

[stiff fable]

So this means he and Loid are interacting

[restive river]

Ok but they said Uriel, we can’t see his full transformation cause it hasn’t happened yet

[fast dew]

Thats true, it kinda annoys me

[lean garden]

iirc, what DE was going at for why they went "we cant show you sorry" was because there was an animation for uriel/roathe that they had

so its giving more, something happening to roathe to become uriel instead of spiderman meme

[restive river]

I’m alluding to the interview where Uriel apparently shows up in the quest

[lean garden]

and Im alluding to the devstream where they basically told us hed be in the quest

[stiff fable]

Roathe kills the Operator and Adis brings them back

[restive river]

Like Roathe will get helninthed, yes but we won’t see him fully transform in the quest since he has to be at the exile
So if Uriel specifically is showing up then there’s two Roathes

[stiff fable]

[restive river]

I think that only works on Sentients ):

[fast dew]

I really wanna know how Roathe got helminth'd

[stiff fable]

We DO need a third Operator form

[restive river]

This ain’t reading as possible child to Albrecht and more like a potential home wrecker lol

[stiff fable]

oh my god imagine if that's it

[restive river]

We don’t really but if we do it’d be later lol

[stiff fable]

We don't travel to Tau we had a sentient body there

[cosmic badge]

The side bro

[fast dew]

Im determined to see Loid hate on this idea

[restive river]

Ok, Loid doesn’t have to like it lol

[fast dew]

Let loid be faithful for hells sake. He clearly aint over Albrecht

[restive river]

Dude I’m not saying Loid will cheat on him lmao

[fast dew]

Sprry i had a few people who were adamant on it and i immediately get defensive 😭

[stiff fable]

More old man yaoi lol

[restive river]

Heck
Could be Roathe found out about Albrecht and Loid, wanted a “piece” to himself and that’s why Albrecht doesn’t like him

[lean garden]

I think I'd be reading it as just that

[restive river]

No, Loid isn’t going to cheat
But Roathe can still be a jerk and try to flirt with him

[lean garden]

because Roathe would be the old wife's kid, and might resent loid for taking dad

[restive river]

Nothing happens between them beyond maybe some flirtations that Albrecht really did not like

[fast dew]

Mm. Maybe a half child?

[stiff fable]

I'm enjoying this telenovela turn

[stiff beacon]

roathe being entratis shunned son would be hilarious

[fast dew]

Ohhh stepson!

[restive river]

I don’t really see the child angle here tbh

[fast dew]

No it is just beinf silly

[restive river]

The way Roathe talks about Loid like
I’m not seeing it lol

[lean garden]

Like I see it right there in my head, why Drifter says kids instead of kid

[fast dew]

Mainly cuz of that one drifter line saying Albrecht had kids

[lean garden]

and perhaps roathe is a danger to Albrechts new man

so thats why he says that about Loid

[restive river]

Heck
Both things could be true
Roathe is Albrecht’s estranged son and Roathe flirts with Loid

And yeah it’d be. Weird, basically flirting with his stepdad but bro is an Orokin and Loid was not of the same class as they are

It’s also something Roathe has likely moved on from since but still makes comments about

[fast dew]

And then i remember this and i feel the need to shower

[restive river]

Keep in mind me proposing this idea and it being gross and weird is
The point of it

[fast dew]

I do not like the idea of Albrecht getting laid. Makes me feel gross.

[restive river]

The Orokin are gross and weird

[sly ibex]

We... We should be able to help the Proto frames remain as themselves.... Even reverse their transformations. We helped Alad undo his Infestation (even if not fully and like 99.999%), so we should be able to help them all.

[fast dew]

I like to think they were all super overindulgent in thst stuff

And then i throw up bcs ew

[celest needle]

Okay but Alad has the power of plot armor

[sly ibex]

I also want to help the Entrati get back to normal, somehow.

[restive river]

We do help them, by using transference that does help
But
We can only help within the ever looping loop, they will always be infested outside of it
They also may be far too along for a cure, if it exists, to work

[fast dew]

... you know how we can do that?

[proper barn]

Entrati would need uhhh new bodies probably.

[restive river]

They super were and I super hate it

[proper barn]

That wouldn't be that great I feel.

[sly ibex]

Clone their original bodies somehow and Continuity them into their new bodies.

Clones without consciousness, of course.

[sly ibex]

Alad was quite Infested too, though.

[restive river]

Goodluck getting the cloned bodies in and out without being infested

Also a conscious mind may be needed for Continuity, it isn’t transference

[stiff fable]

It's an odd thought actually

[strange plinth]

i'd think the helminth is a little too attached to let go of its subjects as easily as the mutalist strain did alad
mutalist was primarily messing with tech, the helminth is all about transforming the body entirely

[restive river]

They seem a lot more far along tbh

[stiff fable]

Like, would we have to amputate the altered limbs?

[sly ibex]

We don't know for sure, though.

[stiff beacon]

we just go back to 1997 to collect dna samples

[stiff fable]

The mechanics of it are fascinating

[restive river]

We don’t, no, but in all cases we see it’s used on conscious minds
And I’d think if the Orokin could just clone empty bodies they would have tried that, though if they did we likely wouldn’t know anyway so-

[sly ibex]

It's quite possible they have stored data on their original and unaltered DNA in their computers.

[restive river]

We can’t actually, there’s a sort of wall preventing us from going back further

[sly ibex]

Plus, they probably didn't care for finding more humane ways for their immortality lol

[fast dew]

The altered limbs are normal for orokin wdym

[celest needle]

Who even wrote the triumph of dust?

[sly ibex]

The Man in the Wall.

[stiff fable]

Not ones made of infested tissue and metal

[restive river]

Yeahh
I do hope we get some origins on Kuva soon, more in depth details on it’s mechanics too

[restive river]

Its his fanfic!

[celest needle]

But like
can we make our own tho...

[restive river]

Most Drifter manifested was like
Their old room

Also they don’t want the throne but in theory anyone could it just depends on what Wally’s fic really is

Which we know it also only exists in Duviri due to being tethered via a strand hence why we kill two fragmented

[sly ibex]

Technically, Drifter already made the entire book into the islands of Duviri in the Void. I'm sure more could be manifested by either the Operator or Drifter if they really put their minds/emotions into it.

[fast dew]

It wasn't in the story, thrax says it wasn't in the story...

[restive river]

I believe Thrax gives more details on it too?

[stiff fable]

It's really hard to deliberately manifest things in the Void

[restive river]

Or Thrax!
If he wanted to he could probably bring any of the lost islands back, depending on their status

[stiff fable]

It's almost always unconscious

[restive river]

I really want Lorn to come back

[fast dew]

Seemingly from fear

[stiff fable]

I actually don't think Thrax can

[restive river]

Its a fanfic

[stiff fable]

He's a part of Duviri too

[celest needle]

Idea: Grab a corpus crewman under immense pressure and throw him into the void and see what he can make

[sly ibex]

I mean for making new ones/adding to the story manually.

[fast dew]

Aint most CE events from a form of fear?

[stiff fable]

No

[sly ibex]

Like what Man in the Wall tried to do, but us doing it.

[stiff fable]

Most aren't, in fact

[restive river]

Yeah no Thrax can’t do that then, he’s part of the story

[stiff fable]

Belric and Rania created a tunnel between themselves

Xaku formed itself from void spirits and remnant armor

[restive river]

It’s just strong emotions and concepts within the mind and the void reacting accordingly

There’s no controlling CE
Best we got is MAYBE the focus schools

[fast dew]

Albrecht was from fear of dying, Drifter's was from fear of... uh. Dying.
Was Yonta's also from that or nah

[fast dew]

I ain't all too sure how CE happened there ngl

[restive river]

Best we got for that is possible feelings of being lost or alone hence why they’re like that

[strange plinth]

fear is a fairly common strong emotion in the void, for obvious reasons i think

[stiff fable]

The focus schools are methods to channel powers that the Tenno already have, I feel

Ways to shape the power

[restive river]

Remnant emotions the frames felt at their time of death were strong enough
Ez

[fast dew]

Yeah a lot of the time it just happens to be fear, not that its exclusively from fear

[stiff fable]

Mnemonics, mantras and symbols

[restive river]

So by using specific concepts we’re shaping the way our void powers manifest
So
Conceptual embodiment

[stiff fable]

Anyway

No

[restive river]

No but that’s what we’re doing lol

[stiff fable]

Conceptual embodiment is an act of creation

[restive river]

The Tauron Artifacts

[stiff fable]

Are not conceptual embodiments

They're closer to amps

[restive river]

Visually they are made of the void
As a thing they are sentient ideas mixed with the tenno focus schools that then make a thing

[restive river]

Depends on their origin

[stiff fable]

It's not going to be that they're conceptually embodied things

[restive river]

We know they are physical things as Marie had to find them, but their origins are unknown atm beyond sentient concepts + tenno concepts = weapon

[stiff fable]

I don't know what it is but it won't be that

[restive river]

Ok but it could be

[strange plinth]

i'd lean more towards CE than not
but it might not be

[stiff fable]

Not really, because CE is something else

[restive river]

All the tenno’s void powers, how they’re shaped can be some level of CE
We’re powered by the void and shaping it through specific concepts and ideals

[stiff fable]

No, that's not how that works

[restive river]

CE is just the void + concept and emotion = thing is made

[stiff fable]

Right, that's not what the kids are doing

[restive river]

The focus schools are how we shape and utilize our abilities

[stiff fable]

The kids don't create things

They shape the power they already have

[restive river]

I mean yeah
But it can still be a level of CE, it’s how we shape them, how differently

[stiff fable]

The closest comparison is actually Warframe powers

Ballas created frames along certain themes

[restive river]

If the void is a buncha clay being shaped by emotions and concepts then the focus schools are a bit of void we too are shaping, just differently

[restive river]

Oh for sure

[stiff fable]

That form defined their functions

Conceptual embodiment is the spontaneous creation of matter from nothingness

So if anything you could say Warframe powers are CE but Operator powers are not

[restive river]

I mean we are
Literally shaping how we use our abilities through different concepts, ideals, emotions, it’s not 1:1 with conceptual embodiment but it’s shockingly similar
The only missing step is the actual creation which, could literally just be our abilities

[stiff fable]

However this is obviously incorrect

I don't know how to make it more clear

Shaping = \ = creating

It just isn't the same

[restive river]

Also in a stupid roundabout way you could say the tenno’s powers ARE conceptual embodiments due to us having a piece of Wally and he may or may not be one

[stiff fable]

I mean

I also don't believe that

[restive river]

I mean that could be due to the fact we are just shaping what we already had

[stiff fable]

But then it isn't CE

This is a circular argument

[restive river]

Lol

It’s different from CE because there’s actual like
Intent put into it

CE is just the void nabs it and does whatever with it, it might be how you wanted but probably not

The focus schools are taking what we had, given to us by Wally and shaping it to how we want

One naturally occurs the other specifically is guided and shaped

[stiff fable]

The Operators are natural void tech

They can do stuff that void-derived technology does

[restive river]

The Tauron Artifacts could still be conceptual embodiments though, it will just depend on their origin

[restive river]

We can’t plug ourselves into a ship and go faster than light (yet) ):

[stiff fable]

Like I said, I don't know what it will be, but it won't be conceptual embodiment

[restive river]

Or it could be

[stiff fable]

Even if it's shaped void energy brought into stability with Sentient technology, that's not conceptual embodiment

[restive river]

They said sentient concepts, not tech?

[stiff fable]

My mistake

Point stands

[restive river]

Shaped void energy using concepts is just conceptual embodiment, the difference just is in how it happens

[stiff fable]

No

No, it's genuinely not

[restive river]

Also with conceptual embodiment like
Wally is using it on the regular to make things, specifically?

[stiff fable]

Wally isn't a person

His rules are different

[restive river]

It could very well be one could guide conceptual embodiment to some extent, we don’t know

It’d be the difference of a natural process and a refined one

Same product but one had more direct intent put into it, maybe it’s more efficient

[restive river]

He still feels emotions and the void seems to react to some extent

[stiff fable]

but he isn't human

[restive river]

Still has emotion

You don’t need to be human to do conceptual embodiment

You just need strong concepts and emotions in your mind and to be in the void

[stiff fable]

You actually might need to be

The Cavia haven't done it

[restive river]

They haven’t had a chance to?

[lean garden]

Well, quick check, do you think the holdfasts are human?

[stiff fable]

They do have Void powers but it's different for them

[restive river]

Also why is it a rule only humans can lol

[stiff fable]

nope!

[tall echo]

The incident:

[restive river]

Also yeah
Cav!

[tall echo]

Well.

[lean garden]

well then you'll need to know that cavelero CE'd incarnons

[restive river]

Cav conceptually embodies the incarnons and he is not human!

Also definitively the holdfasts are not human

[tall echo]

Specifically incarnon adapters

[restive river]

Yonta, the literal void scientist tells us herself

[stiff fable]

right

[restive river]

Felarx
Innodem
Phenmor

[stiff fable]

But also yeah he makes the adapters

[fast dew]

She is one of many... i hope she can see the entrati family one day

[tall echo]

Occupation: human(former)

[restive river]

He is still a conceptual embodiment making conceptual embodiments

[stiff fable]

the natural incarnons have a different description iirc

[tall echo]

I assumed those happened on their own based on descriptions

[stiff fable]

That's raw void exposure making them, not Cavalero

[restive river]

The adapters are like
Still a thing

[lean garden]

but still the point stands, a non-human did a cheeky CE

[restive river]

They can’t fully happen on their own but yeah
Cause
Conceptual embodiment doesn’t happen by itself

[tall echo]

Solution: it's not CE

[restive river]

It could have literally been strong enough emotions tied to those weapons caused their incarnons once exposed to the void

[stiff fable]

But Cavelero hasn't seen most of the weapons you'd bring him

[restive river]

Iirc we don’t know how the Holdfasts happened but it could have literally been from the strong emotions and trauma on the Zariman
Or it was Wally
It’s still a mystery lol

[tall echo]

The adapters are explicitly stated to be CE, the native ones aren't

[stiff fable]

Amusingly

[restive river]

He still CEs their adapters and thus their incarnons

[tall echo]

He had the idea after seeing us with them

[stiff fable]

The inbox messge arrives after you get your first genesis

[restive river]

You do not need to be human to do conceptual embodiment

[stiff fable]

He says the Void took his ideas

[restive river]

So the question is where did the native ones come from

[restive river]

Conceptual embodiment

[stiff fable]

But it's possible it's the Drifter/Operator that CE'd them

[silk atlas]

They just got tainted by the Void.

[stiff fable]

No, because one thing we established is that you can't CE via intent

[restive river]

With what they are is that really all it is?
I guess they were in there for a while but I don’t think we see anything else like that

[silk atlas]

They were ceremonial weapons that were already on the Zariman that got altered after it went cablooey. Cavalero literally says as much.

[stiff fable]

Aeolak and Hespar

[restive river]

I mean you can clearly come up with concepts and the void can just use those
Cav didn’t have the intent to make the adapters but they happened anyway

[stiff fable]

We know Aeolak used to be a Gotva Prime, at least

also, fun gun, I should use it more

[tall echo]

The native incarnons also like, completely change unlike adapter ones

[restive river]

He just says void touched
I don’t think we know much more than that

[restive river]

Also true
Though
Not all of them

[silk atlas]

Well... yeah.

[restive river]

Praedos is exactly the same just voidy, but it’s the odd one out

[silk atlas]

Why would there be more to it.

[restive river]

My point is what does void touched mean here :p

[tall echo]

the melees are an exception for obvious coding reasons

[restive river]

Innodem going from a dagger to a sword:

[stiff fable]

yeah was going to say, the melees are the same but more

[tall echo]

from a dagger to a long dagger

[stiff fable]

Innodem doesn't get that much bigger tbh

[restive river]

Innodem is
Praedos is the same

[restive river]

A sword is just a big dagger

[stiff fable]

Thalys is similar but with a sharper head

[restive river]

Oh yeah Thalys is the same too

[tall echo]

WELL

[fast dew]

Oh right i need to be grinding stuff for nihil's sword

[restive river]

No ik coding wise they’re different lol

[tall echo]

do not challenge the sword nerd on the topic of swords

[restive river]

Also that yeah

It’s a very gross simplification lol

[silk atlas]

Void-touched. 🤷 It doesn't sound like there were people to CE onto it and go "God I wish I had something to shoot these weird things with" when they were laying around the Zariman.

[stiff fable]

interestingly, Ruvox looks closest to an incarnon Genesis

But is a natural incarnon

[tall echo]

albrecht

[restive river]

It doesn’t sound like anyone was around to CE the holdfasts either and yet
They’re here

[silk atlas]

Ergo, it could be not CE.

[restive river]

We know the Zariman weapons were aboard the ship
It could be void exposure or it could be CE

[tall echo]

albrecht do weird thing

[silk atlas]

The Void does also stuff without CE.

[restive river]

It doesn’t make things without CE

[stiff fable]

Albrecht's Void experiments revealed the true destructive potential of this fist weapon. In Incarnon form, perform Heavy Slams to impale nearby enemies with spikes.

[restive river]

But these are altered so
It’s different

[stiff fable]

So yeah, it's Void stuff

[silk atlas]

Exactly.

[restive river]

Literally due to the nature of them just being physical things lost in the void they’re somehow different

[tall echo]

this sounds like a command

[restive river]

Even though their new forms are
Entirely different creations

[tall echo]

"Albrecht! Do weird thing."

[fast dew]

Ight i can draw this

We got this

But i lost my pen so i can't rn

[silk atlas]

As for the Geneses, Cavalero has mentioned he has had a lot of time shooting himself, so it's not like he couldn't just toss out stuff that didn't work in his favor.

[restive river]

Incarnons seem to fall into two categories
Completely alters the weapon physically OR adds/alters how the weapon works

[tall echo]

-# poor cavalero

[silk atlas]

Nah he revels in it

[tall echo]

...n o

[restive river]

He can also just see stuff we have and go “oh that would be fun..”
And then the void swipes it lol

[tall echo]

he just really hates himself

[stiff fable]

jesus lol

[restive river]

LOL

[blissful merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/zhu-li-gif-27319109

[tall echo]

that't not bc he enjoys it

[restive river]

they are
Not human lmao

[restive river]

Actually
What’s his tone here?

[tall echo]

thinking cav does that bc he just enjoys it is a very mentally healthy way to see it

[restive river]

Especially for the last bit

[tall echo]

vaguely threatening as usual

[stiff fable]

Cavalero is very dedicated to his job

[tall echo]

I recognize cav's speech and tone, very familiar in some aspects

[stiff fable]

So he does enjoy it, but not the pain of it

[restive river]

He either hates himself
Loves testing his new body
Or wants to test the weapons thoroughly

[stiff fable]

It's the satisfaction of a job well done

[tall echo]

[restive river]

shotguns hand off well this one works!

[stiff fable]

yyyyyyep lol

[tall echo]

1 and 3

3 bc of 1

[stiff fable]

Also yep

Cavelero is another one in the "Ordan Karris" mold

He probably would have loved being an Operator cephalon

which is... not a healthy mindset

[tall echo]

ehhh ordan enjoyed killing

cavalero hates himself bc he followed orders

[stiff fable]

Ordan's moral awakening was realizing that he loathed killing

[silk atlas]

Bro's got a lot of bottled-up anger

[stiff fable]

As he was being rewarded for how much killing he had done

[tall echo]

he loathed killing for the orokin

[stiff fable]

Also killing in and of itself

But he figured he didn't know anything else, so decided to use it for "good"

Like, damn, the bits about him learning to love for the first time when Ballas programmed him to love the Operator?

[solar hatch]

Random note, but This low key feels like it has room for hyperreality made real or esoteric russian doll situation going on, wherein CEs could continually manifest CEs that can also continually manifest increasingly surreal and detached simulacrums of reality until they're effectively untethered from any semblance of material reality

....
Feels like something Albrecht would probably experiment with tbh

[dire mountain]

I don't think tau lends itself to an arg but idk

[strange plinth]

tau seems like a weird one for an arg yeah
unless we'd be like. taking the place of the sentients in tau? receiving messages from origin?
but that isn't really arg-like

[dire mountain]

I guess tau could send out cryptic messages

[stiff fable]

Could be signals reaching the Origin System from Tau during the interregnum

[fast dew]

Please maybe a new nightwave series for it

[dire mountain]

And it be like "holy shit guys we heard from tau for the first time in ages"

[dark compass]

Yeah, some sort of messages to help "clear the path" to tau

[dark compass]

Sentient themed nightwave would've been amazing ngl

[strange plinth]

Tau went silent after the old war, so what would make them start transmitting again

[stiff fable]

no Tenno, just messages and one person with a signal decoder getting spooked

[stiff fable]

They wouldn't, it would be the final messages they dispatched

[dark compass]

Could be a play on wow signal story

[dire mountain]

Uhm Wallenstein idk

[strange plinth]

hmm, maybe?

[strange plinth]

fair enough i suppose

[dark compass]

Someone familiar reaching out

Then we reach that someone familiar and he says he didn't send anything

[dire mountain]

Adis...

I hope hes alive

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-the-new-war-lotus-eidolon-natah-gif-24249935

[fast dew]

Shit jumpscared me when i first played

[lean garden]

nah dude. remember how in the Zariman Arg we had folks send a message out there?

maybe a tau arg can have us get a message back

[lean garden]

wouldn't that be interesting?

we know they went silent, we know even up to post New War, they're still silent

so wouldnt it be of (Digital Extreme)ly great concern

that they're suddenly not silent

[strange plinth]

i did not know of this but. that would be interesting, yeah

[lean garden]

my hope for a Tau ARG is that our decoded messages from them are Distress signals

[blissful merlin]

I hope one is from adis…depending on how the old peace goes…I’m so scared for when we’re gonna have to face our old friend as an enemy.

Can’t wait to learn more about them thou!!!!

[barren jasper]

I hope by the end we help adis learn how to structure sentences normally 💔

[stiff beacon]

doubt it, their just gonna speak like the rest of the named sentients, 90% metaphors and siliques

[barren jasper]

"how late the we"🥀

[undone eagle]

So are pre-Tenno warframes the primes? Would they not still be the originals even if we crafted them as a game mechanic?

[strange plinth]

some warframes started prime, others earned it
so there's not really a distinction there

[dark compass]

It depends. No consistency

[undone eagle]

Is there a list of the pre-Tenno warframes?

And are all of the foundry warframes just recreations?

[dark compass]

Some were prime originally, some got primed later, some are weird void(?) shenanigans (revenant), some primed themselves (lavos)

[dark compass]

Foundry frames are recreations, yeah

[undone eagle]

I only finished the second dream so don't tell me if it's a big spoiler, but

Are there any other original warframes other than Excalibur Umbra (whatever his deal is).

[dark compass]

Kinda?

Not with that amount of story focus at least

[strange plinth]

umbra is an interesting case, which you'll find out through his quest

[dark compass]

Absolutely lovely quest at that

[undone eagle]

Tell me this is he still the same Excalibur as the prime but only changed by something or an entirely different warframe?

[dark compass]

You probably should finish his quest first

[strange plinth]

^

[dark compass]

Bc this question would require heavy context from it

[strange plinth]

it'll be easier than trying to answer without spoiling

[lean garden]

a list?

Dante
Kullervo
Not-rhino

[dark compass]

Oh right, these three were outright mentioned to be before that

[undone eagle]

I know but it'll help me to know at least vaguely so it doesn't bug me until then

[strange plinth]

-# jade and stalker, as well

[lean garden]

well not exactly

[dark compass]

It's just that this quest partially answers your question

[lean garden]

we know jade was around for the tenno, so both jade and stalker are post-tenno frames

[strange plinth]

jade was assigned one though, no?
like she existed before

[lean garden]

if she existed before she would have been destroyed with the rest no?

Like unlike dante and kullervo, she was with the orokin the whole time she was jade

our only pre-tenno survivors are the ones who managed to run away

[strange turtle]

Excal I think, I remember some line calling him “the first”

[strange plinth]

if she was kept as the execution method and never deviated, i don't see why they would kill her preemptively
but yea, i do see your point

[lean garden]

nah, excal's own loretab specifically puts him in post-tenno

[lean garden]

plausible, but I dont think thats strong enough otherwise

but thats just me tho

evidently by stalker we can tell when the orokin had favourite toys

[strange turtle]

Lore tab?

[lean garden]

er, go to wiki, go to excal prime, bing bang boon

[undone eagle]

Guess I'll have to be patient

[strange plinth]

would dagath be pre- or post-tenno? is there anything in that story that would indicate it? not remembering details

[lean garden]

ah that, I think post, since she didnt move after become a frame

[strange turtle]

…I mean, considering the time, it just seems like they weren’t making a distinction between Pre and Post Tenno since that, y’know, wasn’t around yet

[proper barn]

||umbra is one of the last warframes||

||made after tenno even||

[lean garden]

I mean even so, theres a very specific line in excal prime's tab that precludes excal being pre-tenno

[stiff fable]

it's ever-so-slightly moot I feel. Drussus is mentioned to collate Operator and Warframe in his collection of stories about them

[lean garden]

but dagath isn't a leverian story

[stiff fable]

Obviously, but I feel that's DE speaking to the question at large

Warframe and Operator, Warframe or Operator?

[lean garden]

Hotel? Trivago

[stiff fable]

When you are in the Warframe, you are that Warframe.

[strange turtle]

Ahh, yeah looking back thats the Tenno

I glanced over it and the “twisted” and “frame around them” bits made me think of just frames

[stiff fable]

that actually got me, well played

need a washcloth for the monitor now....

[spice onyx]

Just finished the New War last night and have one question: that whole thing with Ballas doesn‘t make any sense. The Sentients started the Old War mainly because of the Orokin, came to hate the Tennp bla bla. Erra and the surviving Sentients ally themselves with the Orokin turncoat Ballas, okay, but why does he end up being in charge of everything?

[lean garden]

Thats because hes the manipulator extraordinare

He's convinced Erra that he can give him what he wants, and then eventually he just takes over

erra mistakenly thinks that what hes got with ballas is a partnership

[proper barn]

what? that's not why huh

[proper barn]

also Ballas is just the biggest cockroach manipulator gaslighter ever.

[spice onyx]

It just all seems too convenient

[proper barn]

i mean why?

also ballas worked with sentients before.

[strange plinth]

i mean, he spent the first bit of prelude to war acting like the victim to give us a sword, then turned around and stabbed us with it later

in a way, he's done the same with erra
though more metaphorical in his case. he literally stabbed us.

[celest needle]

Ballas is the golden lord of lies and Erra's racism exceeds his sense of judgement

[stray gale]

i miss ballas

[celest needle]

Why would you

[stray gale]

he's got so much villain rizz

and such a fantastic VA

[celest needle]

Oh
yeah true

[strange plinth]

go replay the new war then we do not need him back /s
though ig he shows up in old peace so

[stray gale]

every villain since has just been kinda boring comparatively imo

[humble sierra]

I mean how many villains have we had since then

[stray gale]

pazuul is cool but only shows up for one thing so i guess he doesn't count

pazuul, wally, rusalka, viktor

wally is potential man and the other 3 are just "talking trash on the voice comms during a mission"

whereas ballas was messing stuff up constantly and being a huge diva about it

[celest needle]

I cannot hear his voice anywhere else without thinking of Ballas 😭

[humble sierra]

Huh, just realized that besides maybe if you count the Warden, Ballas doesn't really have any transmissions, does he?

[stray gale]

"amazon pay helps businesses around the world to deliver fast pay" - ballas

[strange plinth]

he has a few during the teshin section of TNW, doesn't he?

[stray gale]

but like stuff how he traps you in the komi game against him

[celest needle]

Albrecht closely does live up to him though

[stray gale]

like genuinely pure hateration

the other villains feel kinda toothless in comparison

[celest needle]

While he may not be that connected to the main MAIN story like Ballas was he is unique enough and villianous enough to be damn good

[opal oyster]

anyone want to try explaining (in lore) how this happened?

[stray gale]

like i guess thats the main difference, ballas screws you the player over constantly in really petty and insulting ways, whereas every villain since then just cause problems off screen

[strange plinth]

eated it

[celest needle]

You lost your head

[proper barn]

Duviris transmission messed up a little.

[spice onyx]

Well with Ballas it‘s pretty personal

[proper barn]

It will work out soon im sure.

[proper barn]

Also we don't know if the sentients started the war btw. Also hunhow doesn't ally with Ballas.

[stray gale]

i liked wally during whispers in the walls though when he seemed really mysterious and powerful

[stiff fable]

He did before The Sacrifice

[stray gale]

theyre explaining him too much in the recent stuff

[proper barn]

Are they?

[opal oyster]

uuh pretty sure its to do with the fact hes orokin lots of void mumbo jumbo going on

[stray gale]

yeah

[celest needle]

It's too recognizable please help
[you may want to lower the volume for this one]

[proper barn]

We still don't know that much about him at all.

[stray gale]

he's gone from "terrifying unknowable evil with unfathomable power where even a finger is enough to power an entire spaceship" to "hyperdimensional jumpscare incel"

[strange plinth]

they've given him a motive and a weakness, and that's about it

even those were already alluded to in whispers

[humble sierra]

Bro forgot to craft neuroptics

[proper barn]

He always was that. Also the most we ever.leanred about him is like

Rells quest probably and duviri maybe.

Zariman had a bit about him as well.

[stray gale]

there are kim chats where drifter basically outlines what they think the deal is with him and its more or less correct

[stiff fable]

I mean.

He set up everything between The War Within and the end of the New War to get Ballas to break down the wall of Lohk enough for the Murmur to spawn

[stray gale]

like sure there were definitely some hints to it beforehand but 1999 made it very clear

[humble sierra]

Probably set up the whole fall of the Orokin too

He's not "Potential Man" so much as he is "has one singular goal which you are actively opposing"

[stiff fable]

nah Rell had him locked up then

[celest needle]

What about Albrecht tho, he's still like, very reserved.
He sounds and technically is good intentioned but he's actually doing horrible things and leaving scars on everyone he touches

[proper barn]

Well no? We don't know what our light is.

[humble sierra]

Yeah but he might've set all that in motion beforehand

[proper barn]

We also only know that we are a deal breaker cuz of Isleweaver. God isleweaver is good.

[stray gale]

it's hard to count him as a villain or not

[stiff fable]

Wally says the deal is off at the end of Whispers

[glacial bough]

Albrecht is fully not a villain

[humble sierra]

I think Whispers actually mentioned breaking the deal

[stiff fable]

When the Albrecht clone shows up

[proper barn]

He does?

[stiff fable]

Yes

[humble sierra]

Before then it was "you wouldn't welch on a deal"

[glacial bough]

He's still very morally dark

[strange plinth]

"from the deal, the wee child ran" or something

[stiff fable]

He starts ripping apart the lotus flower

[humble sierra]

"We end as we began"

[proper barn]

I've been wrong before I'll be wrong again lmao. Good to know.

[stiff fable]

And talks to himself in his two bodies

[strange plinth]

he added the page to the deal, we didn't give it to him, he did the lotus flower thing

[celest needle]

But he does take at the secondary antagonist in the arc currently

[strange turtle]

Thats not calling us a dealbreaker that’s from the Duviri tablets

[spice onyx]

By the way small question just for clarity, the shadowy person you‘re following on the Zariman just before Drifter and Operator meet up, is that Wally or Drifter?

[humble sierra]

Yeah that's what I'm saying, Wally isn't saying that the deal was broken, he's just making sure you don't break it

[humble sierra]

Drifter

[strange turtle]

Ah, misread

[stiff fable]

Drifter

well actually

[stray gale]

like imo wally shouldn't have taken the front villain seat, he was more intimidating when he was just a background presence

[stiff fable]

that part might have been Wally leading you to the Drifter now that I think about it

[stray gale]

it works for ballas because he has a human face and human motives and is such a petty bombastic personality

but every time i see wally im like, what does this mf want now

[strange plinth]

why would he, though?

[stray gale]

hes like a guy youre trying to curve but keeps texting you

[stiff fable]

Wally's still setting things up to get Ballas to run

and break the wall

The last part of that is you going after Lotus

which you're not going to do until you've had your face-to-face

(still very poorly justified how you know the Zariman's emerged)

[strange plinth]

it isn't explained.. at all, during new war, is it? lotus tells you about it for angels even though you were already there

[stiff fable]

That one makes sense if the Zariman fell back into the Void

I think it would have made more sense if you'd gone to the orbiter and like astral projected into the Zariman

Using the Drifter hood or the Stranger's Mask as a focus

[glacial bough]

We almost certainly did project there. The Zariman seqeunce is just another mindscape scene like War Within. It'd be the reason you spawn from the Somatic Link after

[modest stream]

yeah

[celest needle]

I really need to do Eleanors kim

Been awaiting the old peace before I do anything warframe cause i know its going to consume my time

[stiff fable]

smart tbh

just make sure you get Gauss Prime and his stuff before prices go up

[celest needle]

Already have tons of relics for him and a built one that my friend gifted me all the way back during Techrot Encore when I first started actually playing

[stiff fable]

[modest stream]

I've got a backlog of relics to crack and a decent chunk of them are Gauss so I might get around to that

[celest needle]

I just wanna do a narmer fashion 🥀

[stiff fable]

protovyre 🙏

Maybe it's just me but I kinda wonder if DE is casting shade there

since it's narmer fashion, and narmer is a creeping totalitarian state............

[strange plinth]

i'm more focused on the 75 relics i need to collect with this thing on

[celest needle]

Consider overthinking 😭

[stiff fable]

Gyre Prime relics?

[strange plinth]

eventually
i've already discovered it doesn't count relic packs

[stiff fable]

true

But Apollo, Conjunction Survival, Hepit, Deimos aya farming

[strange plinth]

yup
and i will need more aya for that mesa in resurgence

[hidden glade]

mfw we still havent got the unique Narmer armor set literally fit to Warframes because the Archons straight up wear it

[celest needle]

I desperately need a narmer Tennogen

The Narmer Aesthetic is visually amazing

[eager dragon]

I need Narmer anything.

Just absolutely anything Narmer related. Wonder how the Deacons will fit into Descendia...

[stiff fable]

forced stealth segments

[narrow pendant]

actually suprised we have not seen narmer signa submissions

imagine the veil lmao

[modest stream]

its really easy to forget Warframe is a grim dark setting with how downright silly the community/outside elements are

went back to watch the hex trailer and was like "wow you guys are super edgy" and then it clicked what game I was playing LMAO

[narrow pendant]

ppl are too down bad to care about the grimdark

im convinced the game is 18+ bc of the players not the game

[stiff beacon]

Yea not to mention the tone of the dialog being less grim darky more situationally grim dark

[narrow pendant]

grimdark for the enemies of the tenno

[lean garden]

Thats because its not grimdark!

Its nobledark!

you, you are what makes it nobledark

[stiff beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/are-you-sure-about-that-gif-gif-17425275641143612906

[lean garden]

yes Im very sure

the point of the grim in grimdark is supposed to be that fighting is just to prolong the eternal struggle, hope is but a fantasy in this fantasy world.

warframe literally has you beat back a supernatural entity with the power of love twice

[strange turtle]

Even without us theres groups like Perrin

[stray gale]

yeah warframe being grimdark is a hell of a take

i wouldn't even say its noble'dark' because imo the general feel of the game is a bit comical a lot of the time

there's stuff like the new war that are genuinely quite harrowing but most of it isn't like that

[magic dagger]

Warframe is full of hope

Which makes it disqualify for grimdark

[stray gale]

esp under rebecca

zariman was pretty spooky but the story updates since then have been quite hopeful and have had a lot of jokes and stuff

[magic dagger]

It gets dark yes, and explores some cosmic horror sci fi, 100% but it's not stuffed to the gills with hopelessness and no good guys

[lean garden]

I cant say its noblebright tho

like post empire collapse where large factions constantly fight over territory and that after 13 years shit is not-getting-better™

the setting itself qualifies it as dark

[stray gale]

the setting is dark but the tone isn't ig

[lean garden]

like its very much a collapsing dystopian thing

bright needs it to be on the up and up

[strange turtle]

Theres also early stuff like our allies including

• The guy who runs a literal form of hell for experimentation who we supply with even more people
• Puritan Extremists
• Murderous Cult

Like, even aside from the state of the system I think the fact that the hopeful and good protagonist faction is aligned with these people kinda disqualifies it

[brittle siren]

can anyone name all the crime that Wally did since his finger got cut?

[strange turtle]

You mean like, specific real legal ones?

[opaque zenith]

Indentity thief for the obvious one

[undone eagle]

What's up with the "morality" meter at the end of war within? Does that influence anything?

[pallid spoke]

It's just a profile stat.

[opaque zenith]

Helminth lines and only that atm

[pallid spoke]

Very few of your choices actually affect things, and the ones that do will usually tell you.

[strange turtle]

Not Morality

It changes a few lines of dialogue sometimes and that’s pretty much it

Gets explained here https://www.warframe.com/news/litany-of-the-dax

[south sun]

Originally it was very dark though.

Pretty much just prolonging genocide because the Lotus tells you.

And that was pretty much it for a while.

[restive river]

What

[turbid merlin]

Man, I'm feeling rushed to complete the Undermind stuff before Old Peace but also am constantly being distracted by DNA and WWM. DX

[winged flume]

I haven't been back on since, Galleon of Ghouls or Isleweaver, which ever one was the latest.

Been stuck in Trek land.

[normal mountain]

rather be stuck in the Old Republic

[fast dew]

Isleweaver was the last update besides undermind

[south sun]

Warframe started with a much darker tone, gameplay was also slower-paced.

Pretty much just were told by the Lotus to do x, y, z.

[narrow pendant]

keep the three factions at the same strength so neither can take over fully

except for us letting the grineer take mars lol

[ocean geyser]

I wonder what pre-gradvius dillema Mars looked like

[violet storm]

Grineer-less

[twin wigeon]

Red

[normal mountain]

Snowy
But that was in error

[winged flume]

Mars should be cold, and Venus should be tropical, I said what I said.

[lilac aspen]

Nuh uh
I deny your claim by using terraforming tech

I really can’t believe Venus’ environment occurred because

“Ah shoot, left the AC running.”

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-traveler-gif-27562328

[waxen mesa]

so what's the deal with Lotus being at the lab? how did she get there and why did she have the phone? that whole thing seemed pretty sudden to me

[strange plinth]

she could hear the song of the indifference coming from there, so she came to drown it out with her own song
the pager situation is weirder. it probably isn't loid's, albrecht has his, we take arthur's from the mall, but there was just one sitting out there anyway

[humble sierra]

It helps if you played at launch of Lotus Eaters— the log in music starts with the sound of the Indifference, but is immediately drowned out by singing (from the Lotus).

https://youtu.be/M9lxNEMrb5I?si=wvSN2x8Iw527S5N_

[normal mountain]

Maybe Albrecht bought a second, and left it in the labs?

[sharp igloo]

was it ever confirmed where exactly kuva came from or how it came to be?

[humble sierra]

Duviri logs imply it comes from the ground

All we know for sure is that it has "void-derived properties"

[waxen mesa]

does the cetus tower make kuva? or am i making stuff up

[humble sierra]

Very likely comes from the Void, but that's not confirmed

[humble sierra]

Nah I think that's just flesh and blood

[strange plinth]

iirc it "refines" the kuva

[ocean geyser]

Isn’t that just the Traveler or something

[dire mountain]

Do we have anything that says Mars is hot? Its a desert sure but deserts are not inherently hot

[normal mountain]

True
Antarctica and the Arctic are classified as deserts

[woven coyote]

It is a sandy desert tbf

[tall echo]

[normal mountain]

It would probably be same as other sandy deserts then
Hot during daylight, then frigid at night

[tall echo]

The bleeding earth thing from duviri is not a reliable source for the origin of kuva

[dire mountain]

Mars irl is pretty damn cold but it also doesn't have the thickest atmosphere to trap heat

[fast dew]

Mars has one in warframe so

Like. Maybe its warm

[dire mountain]

Mars irl has one but its probably like, actually breathable in Warframe

[normal mountain]

Guess it will depend on how much the Orokin terraformed it then

[lean garden]

eehhh, I dont think we should take this one at face value

its the equivalent of blood pouring out from the lift in The Shining, its nots supposed to happen and its for shock/horror value

[fast dew]

• this is a story book world, it very well could be Euleria making it like that in her book and not be actual reality

[ocean geyser]

Even if it is Kuva
That’s not exactly accurate to how it might be created in the origin system now, is it?

That’s like saying freeing Rell caused giant chains to fall upon all the planets

No lmao

[celest needle]

For nodes are we just going into the same location that is also called that location or a region on the planet that is also called that node

[ocean geyser]

Probably the latter?
I don’t know if nodes have lore

[fast dew]

Region probably tbh

With a few exceptions of course

[north jolt]

Well it is a SAND desert so assuming it's hot seems pretty reasonable

[raw stone]

Duviri is conceptual embodiment right?

[fast dew]

Mhm.

[celest needle]

definition of it

[raw stone]

It should be as its described tbh

If blood uh... poured from everywhere one day and chains rained upon duviri? Then it happened as described.

[fast dew]

Ehhh

Duviri is embodied from a fantasy book, not from reality

[strange plinth]

kuva has some tie to the void, as do the chains that rained on that day
duviri kinda puts a spin on other events

[fast dew]

Issue wirh duviri is because of its nature of it being based on fiction and the drifter's own view on said fictional world, its not always reliable

[thick yacht]

Were the Orokin a Type I or II civilization

[strange plinth]

closer to type II, i believe
they weren't using the sun, though. they were using the void

[restive river]

A dyson sphere would be impossible for our system anyway, purely due to resources

[strange plinth]

dyson spheres are.. incredibly inefficient resource-wise, anyway
-# put a big solid structure around the thing near-constantly being bombarded with little rocks like that won't drive up maintenance costs
i think the orokin would've had the infrastructure to, but they were already concerned with resources w/o something like that

[restive river]

Tbh what type a civilization is should maybe be rethought
Cause dyson spheres ain’t it

[restive river]

They were concerned about resources yes, hence the plans to expand and we know how that ultimately went lol

They did have FTL travel and utilized the void for it’s energy (once it was discovered it did have energy lol) and had insane biotech which doesn’t even include the infestation

If they ever considered a dyson sphere that idea was shot down by it being impractical and impossible
Plus the void is right there lol

[strange plinth]

yea, no need for the sun's energy when you have void energy being pumped through the system
unless you're going to blow up the sun for some weird reason but no one would ever do that /s

[restive river]

That’s now what they did anyway lol
Praghasa was eating the sun in an attempt to make a void portal straight to Tau
It could have blown up the sun but if it went his way it would have just been consumed, slowly throwing the planets into deep space and killing everyone in a slow, cold death
An explosion would’ve been nicer tbh