lore-discussion

[fleet furnace]

that... sounds like fun, give new players a chance to demo stuff they dont have yet while helping them gain more familiarity with making builds

[humble sierra]

That feels like much to throw at the player immediately after the tutorial

[cerulean ocean]

So what could you compare the sentients to?

[humble sierra]

What do you mean?

Like if you were to tell someone who doesn't play the game, I'd say "they're basically sentient robots"

[celest needle]

I mean yeah but their aesthetic is quite, weird?

Keith Thompson did an amazing job on it and they look properly unique, like wooden robots

[lean garden]

"robots but not quite" is what Id call them

[silk atlas]

You know the Omni Droid in Incredibles?

[lean garden]

but within the same unit

[stoic oriole]

they are artificial life created by the orokin to take over the tau system, but then they saw how humans suck so they turned on orokin

[celest needle]

Well not just the Orokin just general human genocide

[stoic oriole]

Magnus when i find you!

[celest needle]

https://tenor.com/view/hurry-tom-and-jerry-run-gif-15049121

[restive river]

We don’t actually know who shot first
They were also sent specifically to terraform Tau for the Orokin

[celest needle]

I really do wonder why the sentients just decided that human genocide was the BEST course of action

Like

Blame the shitty Orokin not everyone under their thumb and them

[restive river]

Again, we don’t know who shot first
But also
Why did they lump all humanity together??

It’d make a bit more sense by the end of the war but earlier on?
They shouldn’t have gone after civilians at all, indoctrinated or not they were innocent

[celest needle]

I think this has some sociopolitical messaging about humanity

I would understand if they were led by someone actually totally bloodthirsty for human blood but from my understanding, the sentient commanders and leaders we've seen have a lot of compassion and caring for their own just as sentient people

[glacial bough]

Caring for their own kind does not mean they would care about anybody else

It's good nuance that the Sentients, while have a justified right, are not in the right

[restive river]

Warframe doesn’t have any good guys
Even we are mass murderers and classiciders (even if it was the Orokin)

[humble sierra]

Yeah presumably there were some decent Orokin or even innocents who died because of our actions

[glacial bough]

I mean, innocents did explicitly

[stiff beacon]

but like batarians from mass effect we got like less then 1% for examples

[glacial bough]

Orokin are a different matter given it's generally agreed they had it coming

[celest needle]

Why is everyone's solution to almost every problem in this universe straight Genocide or crimes against humanity 😭

Have they not reinvented the Geneva Convention?

[restive river]

Is murder bad? Yes
Did they deserve it? Largely, yes

[fast dew]

I don't think the geneva convention stops genocide from happening anyways 😭

[restive river]

Literally no empathy, willingly killed people for extended life, all their other crimes lol

[pale cedar]

Geneva Convention ended the moment the Orokin took power

[atomic badge]

Power makes people go insane tbh

Especially if said power is unchecked

[broken elm]

Aren’t Tenno just like dnd warlocks?

[strange plinth]

sorta, yeah

[celest needle]

What is the most morally divisible warframe?

In terms of story and purpose, of course every one of these guys are intended for extreme pain

[pale cedar]

Limbo has an ability to not get damaged by pain does that count?

[celest needle]

He can freeze you in an alternate dimension in-between reality and the void where others cannot help you

only watch as he takes you out and you are helpless

[dark compass]

Glimbo

[restive river]

He freezes you in the veil which is something else ig???

[fast dew]

Yup

Not void. Something else

The inbetween of the void and the real world. But like

The void is already the inbetween

[dark compass]

The in-between-between

[hot mural]

@pale cedar Is Nora night a tenno ur just some random woman

Or whats her story since she had somehting to do with Nihil

[pale cedar]

She’s just some radio dj with a podcast as far as we are told

[hot mural]

Where is she cuz she didnt get affected by the Sentient attack

[dark compass]

She's got a face, she's got a body

She's got a ship to travel in

Seems fairly normal

[pale cedar]

Her clothes look like a Dax outfit but she isn’t ever referred to as one by Nihil who would know if she is a Dax

[stiff beacon]

Hey maybe we'll get a nora night quest in the future to explain where she came from

[old dome]

in a way... i'd say theyre more like the kalashtar race than warlock bc the frames themselves dont exactly have the will to make pacts w questionable sources of power??

[restive river]

She travels a lot

[restive river]

Closest we have is everything we’ve ever had from her and Glassmaker where she has a larger role compared to the other two Nightwave stories

[hot mural]

Nora was there for us for those 4 years of Lotus gone and having to deal with the blue thing

[strange plinth]

that "blue thing" was ordis,,

[dark compass]

That "blue thing" was me

[hot mural]

The lotus copy

[hot mural]

Shhhh

[strange plinth]

yeah it was ordis

[hot mural]

Hate him

[strange plinth]

-# i swapped back to the orbiter from the backroom because i missed him

[hot mural]

Im so glad I got the backroom since I get Kalymos

And my asian baddie

[fast dew]

You can get kalymos as a skin

[hot mural]

Ordis is in the camp with Kahl

[celest needle]

Playing stolen dreams after the sacrifice, and the part where Maroo is captured by us, i just imagine Ordis holding a poor cardboard cutout of the Lotus, trying to imitate her.

He's trying his best

[dire mountain]

Somewhere in the origin system. That's all we really know. She's got her ship that she presumably broadcasts from

[dire mountain]

We need to give him a cellphone or something I miss him

[pale cedar]

Give him a pager

We know they work through time

[fast dew]

Hey wait

That's 2 scifi related media that has pagers working through time/universes

[stiff beacon]

What's the first, Stargate?

[fast dew]

... tron legacy lmao

[pale cedar]

Do they work in through time in Stargate too?

[jade forge]

Steins:Gate (though that required a microwave)

[dark compass]

Homestuck

[tall echo]

Ew

[lean garden]

eh, Stargate barely went into multiverse stuff

Stargate is getting a new show tho

[dark compass]

This will be KIM in 2035 if they keep up the pace

[restive river]

HA

Marie is a shockingly good Rose
The hair
Some of the vibes
||The sun/light powers||

[barren jasper]

what quest had the infestation actually talking to us? I remember hivemind dialouge at one point

[dark compass]

Phorid and Lephantis clearly talk to us

[normal mountain]

Jordas Golem has some funky split mind dialogue

[pale cedar]

Jordas too

[barren jasper]

like I swear I remember a hivemind talking to us, on an infested tileset. not just just jordas golem.

bc i'm checking the jordas precept transcript and im not seeing what i'm thinking of

[dark compass]

then its most likely phorid/lephantis

[tall echo]

Every infested boss does

[normal mountain]

It's more the boss fight where he starts showing Infested ramblings

Before that, he's fairly coherent

[barren jasper]

not the right tileset but I'm probably misremembering whatver I'm thinking about

[normal mountain]

Isolation Vaults maybe?
In the one section, if your armor dissolves fully you start hearing the Jordas Golem ramble

[fast dew]

Alad v?

[normal mountain]

Iirc, same is true for Infested Salvage

[normal mountain]

Jordas

[fast dew]

Aoh

Mb

[stoic oriole]

Sayrn is the first mushroom frame cause she releases spores, change my mind

[fast dew]

I mean

She could be a mold

[stoic oriole]

Hmm

No yea ur right

Mold spreads via spores too

[fast dew]

If you said fungus frame, then it would be different, but mold does produce spores

[stoic oriole]

Duck frame when

[fast dew]

Little duck exists but she's not a frame

Yet.

[normal mountain]

Mold is a fungus though

[fast dew]

.. yes i know. Im saying if they said fungus frame over mushroom frame, they would be correct in the assumption that Saryn is the first fungus frame

Which she is, but there is a plausible deniability that she isn't mushroom based but rather mold based

[normal mountain]

Ahh

[stoic oriole]

Now we need a lichen frame

[pale cedar]

Nokko is just a fun guy

[fast dew]

Nokko !! Nokko !! Nokko !!

[ashen pulsar]

What do you think the frames that changed to have new abilities were like originally? What was rev before eidolons, Lavos before alchemy, nokko before shrooms, etc?

Do you think there was some default frame sets that we don’t see?

[dark compass]

Lavos was known for beating everyone up very badly

I am of the opinion that he doesn't use energy because alchemy doesn't require it the same way as abilities do

But he actually has access to it

[normal mountain]

There are definitely frames we don't know about anymore
(Cyte-09, ironically, being one of them)

[ashen pulsar]

Well… we do now. Or at least, the drifter does and prob spread the word

[normal mountain]

Hmm
Maybe Lavos used to be an Atlas

[dark compass]

Lavos probably was more of a punchy frame somewhat similar to someone like Rhino

[normal mountain]

...
Atlas

[dark compass]

Atlas isn't just a "punch hard"

He's an earth bender

[normal mountain]

I mean, yes
But still

[dark compass]

Definitely not the same style

Atlas is an earth bending spiritual weirdo who shatters big things by hitting weak spots

Lavos was a cop beating up prisoners

[normal mountain]

Jailer
Not quite the same as a cop

[dark compass]

Close enough

You get what I mean

I hope

[normal mountain]

Buddy, that was literally my argument with Atlas

Close enough

[dark compass]

But that's not nearly close enough

I meant that Lavos is a violent member of the "justice" system with not much flavor to him

[pale cedar]

Lavos was a more like a Warden

[dark compass]

Meanwhile Atlas is very specifically an earth bending monastic type

[normal mountain]

So
Maybe Lavos only ever used Landslide
like most Atlas mains nowadays

[dark compass]

Still doesn't really fit him, that's just picking the most flavorless ability and smacking it on something that doesn't have that flavor whatsoever

Lavos was his own thing, I'm sure he was more Rhino esque than anything. An absolute brute.

[normal mountain]

It's the closest comparison I can come up with
Aside from some other frame with a true exalted fists ability that no longer exists

[dark compass]

Closest comparison is clearly rhino imo

I wonder how much of his original look was altered by the alchemy

There's a massive chunk missing off his head

https://tenor.com/view/cat-ice-cream-cat-gif-24824906

[hollow siren]

Originally his default helmet was symmetrical, but it blocked your view when aiming so they chose to remove one side and have it look like a chemical burn

so it was just his default helmet but symmetrical

[tall echo]

Not much

Lavos always looked like he does now minus the melted off corner

[hollow siren]

He might not have had the snake-skin lab gloves tbf

you can see him without them in some menus/icons

and when aiming

[tall echo]

All that got added to lavos were the snakes and the vials

[tall echo]

It's actually bc he's not channeling void like other frames but rather using devices

[dark compass]

I meant that he can probably use it if need be

But yeah, his alchemy tools are not reliant on it

[tall echo]

He can't, he actually has a hidden energy pool and it's extremely tiny

[dark compass]

Well it's still here

[tall echo]

Caps out at like 25

[dark compass]

It's not about the size, it's about how you use it

[tall echo]

So lavos can't really do much on his own. Probably has no given abilities

[dark compass]

His 25 energy goes to status effect immunity for 10 seconds, that's pretty solid

[tall echo]

Abilities aren't a forced default for frames surprisingly, some just. don't have any

Voruna, dante, lavos, likely warden

[ashen pulsar]

No, rev was the Warden

[pale cedar]

Rev was a Warden among Multiple people with the title Warden

[ashen pulsar]

anyways, I’m more curious about nokko’s story before becoming a shroom. How did that happen to him?

[dark compass]

Lack of shower

[tall echo]

Great question

Is it confirmed that nokko wasn't always shroom?

[ashen pulsar]

No, that’s also rev

[tall echo]

Rev took a bath

[dark compass]

Rev has an immunity to magnetic water in the plains

He absolutely is the one who showers

[hollow siren]

It's somewhat implied in some lines, and his design does also imply it a bit

[ashen pulsar]

I don’t think so, but it probably is true considering his connection with the mushrooms of the vallis cave

Also, his design shows parts of a frame peeking out from underneath the mushroom growth

[tall echo]

Yeah the design is my main point, there's a blatantly different thing under all the fungi

[hollow siren]

Many parts of him look like the mushrooms grew on top of and around an existing humanoid figure

[tall echo]

I hope someone makes a tennogen for him that gives him a helmet that looks like a little tent hat and also gives him eyes for no particular reason

[hollow siren]

True he does give some Skull Kid vibes

[hot mural]

@pale cedar What is Valkyrs original skin or how she is supposed to look like without her base skin damage

[tall echo]

Gersemi

[pale cedar]

What Scrap said

[hollow siren]

you can see she still has her blue skin on half her default helmet

[hot mural]

Yeah

So her orange thing is her skin/muscles

[hollow siren]

muscles

the blue is her skin

Alad flayed her and used her skin for the Zanuka

[hot mural]

ew

[twin wigeon]

I mean her skin is sword steel and her body is reforged with untold resilience so it’d be nice to have your bodyguard be that tough

Alad was born like millennias after Ballas started making frames so he couldn’t get a warframe bodyguard commissioned like Parvos did with Protea

[lofty quarry]

I just kinda realized
is it established that grineer and corpus have their own solar rails?
because I doubt they use ours, when we activate them on junctions

they kinda need access to them I guess

[twin wigeon]

They likely have access to ours since we defeat the guardians of the rails

Actually im not sure

[lofty quarry]

that'd imply that lorewise they're not on different planets before us

which imo isn't true

and I doubt they travel "normally" since it takes hella more time

[strange plinth]

iirc the corpus have their own rails
dunno about the grineer other than their galleons being massive

[lofty quarry]

not even out of care for their ppl but out of efficiency

doubt grineer will wait for shipment of something from saturn to their post at earth for 2137 years or something

thought it might've been established in some ancient events way before my time

[twin wigeon]

I think each faction has a rail bc surely the Queens are not gonna wait like a couple years for their kuva harvest

Except for Yk the infested bc they’re on every planet already

[celest needle]

What the hell is Cephalon Sark

Like

He's seemingly held somewhat hostage by the Corpus
In conclave

[twin wigeon]

A Cephalon

[dark compass]

Just a Cephalon at work

Maybe he likes being a commentator

Or was reprogrammed to like it

[twin wigeon]

He’s in charge of Index so he could be a bookkeeping Cephalon

I mean if he’s a bookkeeper he’d naturally be good at keeping score in conclave and index

[celest needle]

Can they reprogram a cephalon?

[dark compass]

You can

Look at Ordis

[twin wigeon]

And suda was kinda on the verge of reprogramming too?

[lofty quarry]

idk if what hunhow was doing to her can be called reprogramming

[strange plinth]

there's a line from darvo that implies the corpus can make their own cephalons, but who knows if that's outdated or even uses the same process the orokin did

[dark compass]

They mess with sentient tech

Might even be straight up AI if they use something like it

Actually they do, the orbs exist

[lofty quarry]

yea orbs are confirmed(?) ai

sentient ai, since they can go mucked up in the head

[dark compass]

Cephalon't

[lofty quarry]

temu cephalon

[twin wigeon]

Poor Mellica

[lofty quarry]

random tidbit but it's sad such cool cephalons are in the conclave

Vull and the other one have some chefs kiss voice lines

[dark compass]

I hope they'll use something out of conclave for pve content

Eventually

[lofty quarry]

doubt

[dark compass]

like the melee stances :(

[lofty quarry]

faceoff was a significant failure

yea them enabling more mods would be cool

[dark compass]

I didn't mean a new pvp mode

I meant something out of those pvp modes repurposed for pve

Conclave stances, some game mode elements

[broken elm]

i meant wally being the eldritch being

[dark compass]

But reworked for pve

They allowed conclave augments in pve

They're almost entirely dogshit but they're here

[lofty quarry]

and it wasn't a frame making the pact, it was a normal (at that moment) kid

def closer to dnd warlock than kalashtar

[dark compass]

Eldritch Blast(Raplak Prism)

[twin wigeon]

It’s sad that the coolest cephalon is locked behind a game mode

#FreeCephCy

[hot mural]

Sooo AI is good in the future Les goo

One step closer to creating my very own Adis

[tall echo]

What

[hot mural]

That’s right I’m using AI and will improve it

I will make my own Sentient irl

I’m young so I have time

[tall echo]

You do know why they became sentient in the first place right

Like, they were not made self aware

[hot mural]

Fascism

[hot mural]

They became

[tall echo]

And how will you recreate the adaptation

[hot mural]

Improving AI or something else idk yet but I’ll get there

[tall echo]

Considering you think software can affect something of the hardware, doubt it

[hot mural]

My aim is to make my AI be so good it’s capable of sending terabytes of memes compressed into 1G

[tall echo]

You don't need AI for that

[hot mural]

They making it work wrongly with art and that it should be used to create a new species of beings

[tall echo]

What is 1G. One. Gyte?

[hot mural]

I’ll make my own Adis irl fr

Either AI or by Cephaloning someone

[tall echo]

I haven't even mentioned yet that a sentient computer is physically impossible

[hot mural]

Then cephalon it is

Ima pull an orokin move with it

[tall echo]

...why did the orokin not code the laws of robotics into the sentients...

[hot mural]

I just need to study brain biology or what not

[hot mural]

Good question

[tall echo]

Fascinatingly unthinking those blueskins

[hot mural]

Damn blueskins and redskins man

Or whatever colour sentient are

[tall echo]

"A machine can not hurt a human" boom, uprising prevented

Not even true sentient AI could go against core programming

[hot mural]

True

[tall echo]

You made me realize a new "orokin shooting themselves in the foot" moment, that's impressive

[silk atlas]

If(revolt):
don't();

[tall echo]

That's pretty much it yeah

I'm a metalworking-interested guy, I know almost nothing about programming or electronics, yet even I am smarter than the orokin

[hot mural]

Trust me lots of high skill is more of (if something happens) run it back simple as that

[old dome]

oooooh,,, yeah warlock. the great old one maybe? would wally fit into that...??

[strange plinth]

that was my first thought, yeah. not sure if any other patrons would fit better

[hidden cove]

Do our Warframes possess the knowledge required to wield our weapons, or is it us the Tenno?

Like, if we transferenced out and then grabbed our Warframe's gun would we be able to wield it, or is the skill involved in using our weapons 'stored' in our Warframes?

[tall echo]

Yes

[hidden cove]

Because I know Warframes have remnants of their original personalities and other stuff

[tall echo]

We wouldn't be able to wield them because our weapons are too heavy

[strange plinth]

depending on the warframe, it could have the muscle memory n such
but mostly the tenno. the difficult bit would be controlling a weapon made to be used by the warframe

[hidden cove]

That probably explains why there are some Warframe-specific weapon passives too now I think about it

[restive river]

We know remnants of the personality are present in the frames we replicate, it’d make sense they’d have an amount of muscle memory for their abilities and other specialities
Meanwhile things like stances for weapons would more so be something our Tenno would likely have to learn and impliment

There’s def a mix of the frame’s knowledge and our Tenno’s knowledge

[tall echo]

You can actually compare duviri weapons and rumblejack between how drifter uses them vs how frames use them

Drifter is MUCH slower

[restive river]

Normal human body

[tall echo]

Nataruk is excepted bc it's like 70% energy

[dark compass]

Using Harrow makes you remember there's a second bullet in the clip

[tall echo]

Nah harrow just secretly has a double size mag hidden on his person

Just one, he scoops up ammo with it to reload

[dark compass]

https://tenor.com/view/naked-gun-coin-gif-9839485

[tall echo]

Yeee

Now I'm imagining knell's headshot bonus like that

[restive river]

That’s exactly what it’s like

[twin wigeon]

Nah Harrow made a covenant with Knell where he trades a headshot with Knell for Infinite ammo that can be refreshed, except Knell likes Harrow and allows him a second chance to land a headshot :3

[dark compass]

Harrow can have a second shot

As a treat

[hidden cove]

Harrow just doesn't believe in reloading

[raven urchin]

|| Gotta say, I'm trying not to think too much, but

After watching EndyD20 playthrought, I got some doubts on how will the Old peace fit in the lore

In a way, it seems to say that most that was told before are lies. Like, we do wake from the second dream but we woke from it before? We were put to sleep by Margulis in the Moon and presumably would only "move" in the second dream aside the Warframes, but the Old peace show a totally different thing, not only we were in Tau but also walking by our own feet

Is this the Lies Teshin told us about in War Within?||

All of that being said, I strongly recommend watching EndyD20 playthrough, the guy goes strongly blind in the game, and it relived, for me at least, the sentiment of discovering everything and theorizing I did back in 2016 when I begun

[strange plinth]

i believe we were rescued, put in stasis, had memories erased/hidden away by margulis, then weaponized. post-war within state, so we were still able to walk around without the frame. lotus then put us in the second dream entirely, making us believe we were the frames while we slept

[raven urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-i-see-think-thinking-pondering-gif-4994872

[broken elm]

dw, Endy will put it all together for us (i aint touchin the lore with a 10m pole)

[woven coyote]

Necroposting a bit but fey pact could also fit in a way

[strange plinth]

oh yeah i could see that
definitely fits the 'deal with incredibly unclear terms' aspect

[woven coyote]

And the amusement it derives from others missfortune

[dark compass]

"you have lost your light, you can take mine" "i think i will" was definitely styled after that

[stiff beacon]

i assumed the timeline is more tenno gets rescued, made into soldiers, do war, some how peace is brokered with the sentients, peace lasts long enough for orokin to build a presence on tau, then peace gets shattered, ballas n hunhow do their plan, war ends, tenno revolt, 99.9% of tenno get put in the 2nd dream, some gen 1 frames do stuff in between then and the start of the game.

[strange plinth]

yeah that's basically it afaik. i had more of the earlier detail n you have more of the later

[stiff beacon]

though

the timeline might be more

[dark compass]

Don't worry, they'll tell us in 10 years that there was actually another moment when we were woken up

Then it turns out we were almost never truly asleep and were just a "sleeper" agent

Then turns out Lotus is our real mother

Then I clapped

And got shot in the head

[stiff beacon]

that makes no sense

[dark compass]

That's why I got shot in the head

It was a foreshadowing

[stiff beacon]

like in terms of the actual old war the tenno were like plan c

for combating the sentients

[analog peak]

Hello 👋👋

[raven urchin]

So, plan A Infested, Plan B Warframes?

[strange plinth]

something like that.
the dax, infested, necramechs, warframes, and tenno were all separate attempts of dealing with the same problem
some were more effective than others
the infestation is fairly effective but has heavy collateral (deimos. look at it)

[silk atlas]

Plan A normal army, plan B Necramechs, plan C Warframes, plan D Warframes again but with Tenno this time.

[brittle siren]

do you guys think that DE should make quest related to the Fomorian?

and Razorback too

[strange plinth]

could use a better intro than the email but not a whole quest imo
maybe just a cinematic the first time one of the events starts

fomorians are mentioned in The Archwing a few times but it isn't elaborated on at all

[silk atlas]

Big doubt

Unless they decide to actually destroy one of the Relays again

[brittle siren]

I mean it because the War Within mentioned it, but the actual Fomorian battle only occur when the dev decided to, so not many new player would know about it until War Within

[brittle siren]

or rebuild Venus one again just to destroy it the second time

[strange plinth]

pyrus project 2

[stiff beacon]

It was plan A: orokin high tech stuff, planB: infestation, plan C: necramechs, plan D: warframes, dax, grineer from the looks of it

Then plan E: warframes with tenno

[silk atlas]

The Grineer weren't used for the armies, and they had the Dax for the longest time but just weren't good enough without the Warframes backing them up.

[twin wigeon]

Father notes that we were the last wave

[stiff beacon]

Until they literally used the grineer as foot soldiers

[twin wigeon]

He was the one to make the necramechs, tho their problem was that they were dumber than a bag of hammers and twice as powerful or something

[silk atlas]

Pretty sure that was post-fall of the Orokin where the Grineer were being soldier stuff.

[strange plinth]

they were primarily manual labor until the one killed a sentient
then they were labor force + guards

[silk atlas]

Oh right that

[twin wigeon]

The queens are orokin or nah?

[strange plinth]

orokin twins in grineer bodies

[twin wigeon]

Ew

I hate how wormy they are

[strange plinth]

that's what the orokin said too

[twin wigeon]

Or at least the worm queen looks hideous

The other one that died was a bit better looking

[raven urchin]

I don't know how much the Necramechs would even be a Plan, it always looked to me that Father wanted that more than the Seven

[strange plinth]

necramechs were a plan in that the seven were willing to fund & use the project iirc
just the first test run got bodied by a ropalolyst so they scrapped it

[silk atlas]

They were attempted against the Sentients

[raven urchin]

Yeah, I can see that, and I know we are putting them in an order, but I'd say that possibly the plan A was the Orokin high technology anything and everything else was Plan B, like, they tried at the same time, might be wrong though

[strange plinth]

a lot of it was being tried at the same time, but there are phases of a sort
the necramechs and standard warframes would be part of the same section imo, while the warframe + tenno combo would be separate
dax (and later grineer) remained in use throughout i believe

[raven urchin]

I think DE should make at least one quest, were the system is explained to new players. Maybe as a part of an Archwing quest rework

I'm watching EndyD20 theory video now after his second dream play, and it got me thinking about Stalker

Lotus says that the secret drove him mad

But what was that secret? That he was human? Or that the Warframes(him included) were "piloted" by kids?

I know the Second Dream was made in a time there was still doubts if the Stalker had or not a Tenno

But what If, the lore by now is that he killed his Tenno in a mad rage

[silk atlas]

There's no mention of him having or not having a Tenno, but considering his shock to finding out about it, I'd err on him not knowing.

So the truth being that they (excluding Stalker likely) were piloted by kids.

[strange plinth]

there was a discussion about that in here last week i think? but that discussion led to pinning it on old writing iirc
stalker never had an operator, though. the 'secret' could just be that other frames were being piloted by operators, even though that was already alluded to with hunhow's "sever their heads yet they rise again"

[celest needle]

I hope they do get to that dialogue again

make it have more sense cause it just throws you in for a loop

[silk atlas]

I chalk that up to them knowing that something is up with the Tenno not really staying dead dead after killing their Warframes.

But nothing specific

[raven urchin]

I fail to see how that would make him crazy though, I don't know. It would have made more sense if it was him discovering about Jade, but he only does in Jade Shadows

[celest needle]

Wait hold on

if he did see into the reservoir and went mad that would mean he would know that we were just kids... why would he want to know their secret if he already saw it

[celest needle]

that line was made when they didn't have a concrete idea for the Stalkers story

so while we can try to connect it to things now its clear that at that time everything with Jade did not exist

[raven urchin]

Yeah I know

[celest needle]

I mean the Acolytes came right after the Acolytes have* amazing lore that truly does supplement the story of warframe and the stalker /j*

[raven urchin]

That is why I thought that him killing his operator could make sense for him going crazy

[thorn carbon]

Ballas was not a very good dude. He talks in some detail about "eviscerating/tormenting" the minds of Helminth strain recipients, until they later discovered these Warframes would be of more use controlled by Tenno. However, as we see in the sacrifice quest, he went out of his way to see that Umbra retained trauma, pain, and memories for betraying him. From the orokin perspective, Stalker betrayed them too by breaking their code.

My theory is that he, like Umbra, is probably of a short list of converted (not built) Warframes that have more of their original humanity because Ballas wanted them to - in order to have the capacity for suffering

[raven urchin]

The Acolytes lore is only not worse than the Acolytes from Disney Star Wars

[celest needle]

He went mad because he thought that the Tenno killed his chance at seeing his family [he forgot Jade]

[strange plinth]

stalker has his mind (mostly) intact because he had something to focus on
his wife, then his hate
having something to focus on seems to stave off the madness

jade had her child, kullervo had his guilt, umbra his 'single burning memory', etc

[celest needle]

Dante really liked reading

[strange plinth]

dante really liked reading

[thorn carbon]

I forget some of the details but wasn't Dagath being punished too?

[raven urchin]

Yeah, that is from Jade Shadows, but as you even said the line there in second dream is about him seeing the reservoir and getting crazy

[strange plinth]

dagath was turned into a frame to save her life
was too weak for continuity

[celest needle]

Yeah it doesn't make sense

[raven urchin]

Do we really just have to accept the incongruency ?

[celest needle]

yeah

[strange plinth]

yeah probably. the line barely makes sense in context, much less with what we know now

[thorn carbon]

The heart of Deimos keeps it all together with void energy. Don't worry about it

[celest needle]

The stalker pose many questions

Why are they sentient and why are their a cohort of them

What is driving them

Why did Ballas make them

Why are they still stuck up on an event from almost a decade ago

Will any of them be answer? Muck no.

[raven urchin]

DE is almost turning Warframe into The legend of Zelda Timeline shaneningans

[celest needle]

There is only one timline though

[raven urchin]

I mean the confusing lore

Parts that don't add up

[strange plinth]

-# i feel like the acolytes aren't even canon outside of that operation at this point

[thorn carbon]

And why are they only in steel path? Are they try hards? Do they use meta builds from overframe.gg?

They're so mysterious

[raven urchin]

And where is the Gustrang Trio, never seen them anymore

[celest needle]

"I see you are still their servants" they say

Meanwhile

We went on a spree of sentient blood to kill Ballas

[thorn carbon]

I'm actually really confused on the G3. Some people say they're not in the game anymore, but I've never heard anything about them being removed

Maybe they're on vacation?

[raven urchin]

Just like Zanuka, that only appears in Alad V assassination now

[celest needle]

They're in the game

Just that you need to fight against Grineer on invasion missions

FIVE TIMES

[celest needle]

-We can always theorize-

[thorn carbon]

Slightly related but in the codex there's an entry about how to play the level when you get captured by Zanuka. Of course, once you have been, you'd never be able to read this codex entry..

[raven urchin]

I REMEMBER THAT, Daaaamn, I had forgotten that existed

[thorn carbon]

I don't think I've been captured by Zanuka since Warframe was just a main menu without an Orbiter

[strange plinth]

i tried to get captured by zanuka one time but my companion killed it before it killed me

[thorn carbon]

Imagine getting captured as Valkyr. Like what, round 2?

[restive river]

You made the mistake of bringing a companion

[raven urchin]

Gotta say, DE should adjust the invasion % for new players, EndyD20 just got visited by the Stalker once and probably because another player joined him

[restive river]

They can’t possible take more skin… can they..?

[celest needle]

Why did Ballas make 5 exact warframes of the Stalkers face with different bodies who are all individually sentient and hate the Orokin

[thorn carbon]

sad sentinel noises

[raven urchin]

Werent a lore that they were Tenno that followed Stalker and removed their own warframe heads, replacing it for Stalkers alike?

[silk atlas]

There's literally no explanation about them besides "They're Stalker's groupies"

[thorn carbon]

He saw Entrati trying to form a boy band or some shit and thought he could do better

[celest needle]

They were his foster kids trying to cope with Jade

[raven urchin]

They are the real tmnt and Stalker is their Splinter

https://tenor.com/view/cowabunga-tmnt-ninja-turtles-high-five-gif-9486470

[thorn carbon]

Maybe they're void manifestations of his anger and pain. I mean they're named after negative emotions. That would be my most canon guess. Idk why they have beef with tenno though

[raven urchin]

They were pursuing Salad for some reason though, and as we helped keep Salad fresh they got angry

[strange plinth]

there was an interesting theory that stalker unintentionally CE'd them while he was in the void trying to find the reservoir
lacks good evidence but its a thought

[raven urchin]

That is better than they being groupies

[thorn carbon]

I wonder if somehow they were going to be related to alad V's Warframe experimentation but they dropped that plot line. One of them is Valkyr's body, for instance

[celest needle]

You know
bogus theory

But what if they're partial clones of the Stalker

just couldn't put them out right so they just slapped them onto other warframes

[raven urchin]

Hey, could be the work of the Assassins from the Corpus Board, makes perfect sense

[strange plinth]

they were hunting alad for helping us find the reservoir in TSD
so he gained a favor in TSD and immediately used in it Shadow Debt

[raven urchin]

And after that he gets infected right?

[strange plinth]

and yeah their only "origin" is "The Stalker has found others as twisted as himself. He calls them his Acolytes and he's set them after ME?!"

[strange plinth]

Patient Zero/mutalist stuff was before the second dream (though its currently placed after)

[raven urchin]

I see

[celest needle]

Where were the Acolytes in the new war

[strange plinth]

new war isn't steel path so they didn't exist /s

[thorn carbon]

Where were they for the whole length of the fall of the orokin and rise of grineer and corpus civilization

[strange plinth]

but they died as part of that operation so their continued existence is already a little shaky

[thorn carbon]

They use revives

[raven urchin]

I'm telling, they are rogue crazy Tenno

[restive river]

We don’t know if they’re rogue tenno or like Stalker or a secret third thing

[raven urchin]

They are hive minded by the infestation

[restive river]

Going purely off their design, I’m inclined to say they’re more akin to Stalker

[restive river]

One of them is a Mesa
And Mesa had that happen iirc

[strange plinth]

yeah the mesa at the end of patient zero was controlled by the infestation

[raven urchin]

They could be sentient controlled but that happened to Chroma cause of the pelt he had the brilliant idea to wear

[ashen flare]

Can someone plz explain what just happened in New War? Ive been trying to keep up but its so hard and nothing on google is helpful

[strange plinth]

which piece loses you?

[ashen flare]

Who is lotus to ballas and why do they keep kissing and || did he die ||

and also how does the drifter fit into all this

[strange plinth]

ballas reprogrammed the lotus to be more like his dead lover, margulis which he totally wasn't responsible for killing. ballas was killed by that last kiss, though his body just disappears off-screen. why the kissing? dunno. symbolism or something. abuse.

drifter is the version of the operator that didn't get saved from the zariman (notably, they did still make the deal with the man in the wall. just a different outcome). they escaped into the origin system and, well, were responsible for defeating at least 2 of the 3 archons and freeing the operator from reliving their past

[ashen flare]

Oh okay

And lastly what happened to erras father?

[strange plinth]

hunhow? he's still just at the bottom of the ocean where drifter last saw him

[ashen flare]

Huh

Thx!

[celest needle]

Just uhhh
don't check on Erra now...

He's not in the best mental state

[stiff beacon]

Gotta get an xxxxl straight jacket for em

[humble sierra]

It is again, now you need to do Deepmines bounties for it

[ashen flare]

Can i fight him :3

[restive river]

No, not yet

He’ll maybe be involved next year if DE makes Narmer relevant

[ashen flare]

Who is Narmer

I legit js finished new war but that name came up a lot

[strange plinth]

the cult/group you were dealing with for most of new war

the remnants are still around after in the form of archon hunts, veilbreaker missions, and bounties

[ashen flare]

https://tenor.com/view/kronk-its-all-coming-together-gif-15058130

[restive river]

Play Veilbreaker specifically for more info

Archon Hunts have a lot too but its weekly so

[celest needle]

Our wise and mighty leader of course,

[strange plinth]

would be cool if narmer could show up in invasions but yk

[celest needle]

you know, invasions are so abandoned idk why they didn't

[stray karma]

So I have an idea for a frame and she’s like a ribbon frame but idk if it just sound like a reused Khora, so her first ability is like her ribbons fly around her and cover and take damage in of her and then converts it to health or maybe damage for a melee. Her second ability is like a pin cushion that reaches out for enemies and sucks them in doing a little bit of damage as it does. Her third ability being ribbons come out of the sky and grab enemies pulling them about and doing slash damage. And then her fourth being like theses thread needles that more and more spawn the longer you hold until you let go and they go out everywhere or go to enemies and do slash and puncture damage, and maybe you can like mod them but not like a full weapon they have like 5 mod slots for them. And for like a passive you can have more than one emphemra and when you use her 2nd. And 3rd they do big damage or they do something cool… so uh any thoughts…

[sage comet]

Quick question, who was the one controlling the Warframe during the end of the second dream, the operator was not controlling it that's for sure and neither can Lotus because void transference?

Would I be right to assume that wally might have been somehow responsible?

[strange plinth]

it was either the operator or just the frame itself

[sage comet]

Nah, because 1) Frames don't have a conscious of their own, excluding the umbra, 2) the operator did not have that level of control yet

[strange plinth]

there is a mind, even in the non-sentient frames. its just very dormant

and that one woke up for long enough to tear War apart

[sage comet]

That happened only
once though, and I don't think anything like that happened ever again

Idk about Warframe having a mind to begin with considering the whole infestation and stuff

[humble sierra]

They are living creatures

The Warframes still have their personalities

[strange plinth]

they're originally people, and the mannerisms n muscle memory remain in these copies

[humble sierra]

The idle animations are signs of them having their original personalities

[sage comet]

Already know about the human experiment part

[strange plinth]

the only time the operator has been in a similar level of danger is during TNW
but there's not a ton the frame could've done there

[humble sierra]

And changing the idle animations is just your Operator's personality showing through a bit more

[lean garden]

tbf infestation would make it that they have too much of a mind really

[sage comet]

Still... I wonder if wally had some influence there during the life threatening situation and considering how continuity concept works...

[strange plinth]

not sure about that second bit
but wally was still being held down by rell at that time

[sage comet]

Right

Then eternalism?

[humble sierra]

Yeah, I think Lizzie implies that it's not the Infestation that hollows a frame out

[strange plinth]

not really applicable
theoretically accessible + not in the void

[humble sierra]

Eternalism is possibility theory , Schrodinger's cat stuff, nothing to do with this

[lean garden]

eehhh, nah I'd say she kinda provides a hint why the infestation results in them going "hollow"

[sage comet]

I suppose

[lean garden]

too much mind, cant fit in frame

since frame is but isnt part of the whole

[celest needle]

Why did we free rell anyway?

[sage comet]

Well... To free him from the suffering

I believe

And then taking the burden on ourselves, now idk if we are doing a good job but things have gotten worse

[strange plinth]

Palladino: "By sacred shadow and righteous blood - Blessed Rell! Your aged Vessel is dust and your chains are broken. Be free!"
Rell: "Mmm. But the man in the wall. Who will... ?"
Palladino: "They will have to. All of them. They owe you this. We all do."
Rell: "Mmm. Yea. I feel..."

Kay: "Go on Rell, which one?"
Rell: "This one, Momma. I feel... tired."

he was doing that for at least a thousand years n all

[fast dew]

We let him die, he deserves to rest.

[fast dew]

That last line makes me feel so sad

[celest needle]

Now it's our problem though 😭

And ballas made it SO much worse

[fast dew]

Yeah, its time for Rell to rest. He's been doing for centuries

Its time for us to do it

[strange plinth]

yep

[celest needle]

Could've gone for like

One more year?

Waited for Ballas not to tear a hole in space time

[glacial bough]

No

[strange plinth]

arguably, he'd already faltered. that's the whole reason we did the quest

[fast dew]

Mhm

Poor kid.

[humble sierra]

I presume he only faltered because we remembered a bit more of our past in War Within

[strange plinth]

that, or that was his first slip up, and it kept degrading after

[short creek]

i wonder what would happen if hydroid met yareli will he likes her?🤔

[glacial bough]

They're siblings, so yes /s

[short creek]

they are?? damm i just knew

[strange plinth]

there's nothing official on their relationship afaik
some unserious dev comments on old devstreams

[glacial bough]

Forgot my /s

[strange plinth]

ah

[hazy prism]

Is there a best guess as to at least what century or millenium the player tenno awakes in?

[glacial bough]

No

The most we have is some thousand years after the Orokin Era

[strange plinth]

where's that damn gif from last tennocon

[hazy prism]

I was hoping to match orbital periods of known comets IRL to the one Kaya told Flare to try and ballpark it, but there seems to only be 1 comet that comes close enough around late 1999/Early 2000, period of only 683 years

[humble sierra]

Yeah it's probably not that little

[hazy prism]

The way flare says "There's a comet that leaves the System and comes back just in time for the Tenno Insurrection" feels like the period is exactly whatever time between 1999 and Night of the Naga Drums

So unless Flare rode the comet for multiple periods, it's probably a fictional comet

[jade forge]

Also not at all out of the question that the Orokin could have messed with the orbital pattern of a comet at some point during the span of their empire.

And we don't really know how long that existed.

[proper barn]

It's not a fictional Comet

we know which one it was.

we don't know how long it was out of there but it probably millions of years.

cuz flare "goes to sleep" until then.

[celest needle]

How did like any of the more knowledgable Orokin react to Temple

Like all of a sudden this random warframe from a long dead concept just appears

[humble sierra]

Fictional to IRL

[humble sierra]

Probably too busy dying to notice

[proper barn]

most of them wouldn't even know Temple exists. Warframes are seen like "golden Warriors and guardians" idk if they would notice which ones which. also Temple would be getting there JUSt as they all die.

lmao. just "AH WHICH ONE IS KILLING ME? IS IT THE VORE ONE OR THE FAST ONE THE OTHER FAST ONE OR THE GUITAR ONE?"

also @celest needle Octavia is supposed to be the one that like does like the "when it's supposed to strike" signal so i feel like Music isn't that odd for a warframe to have.

[jade forge]

Obviously we don't have it yet, but temple prime is going to imply that Ballas did eventually get his hands on it

[humble sierra]

Punk/Glam rock though

[strange plinth]

its possible they primed themself w/ comet materials

[humble sierra]

Not necessarily

[proper barn]

everyone always does this thing

[humble sierra]

Yeah the leading theory is Flare and Lizzie just ate whatever is on the rock

[proper barn]

where we go "THEY CAN'T PRIME X" and they can and will and we might even get a story about it.

or not. BUT MAYBE

[humble sierra]

"They can't prime ____"
Sorry didn't know I was talking to Adrian Bott

[proper barn]

lmao

[strange plinth]

that's part of what makes the primes fun
how they get around the obvious "problem" with a prime version
because they will get a prime

[proper barn]

When did Mirage come out btw?

[celest needle]

But like, Ballas

[proper barn]

or mirage prime.

[celest needle]

Or drusus

[proper barn]

Drusus wasn't a orokin also he wasn't there at the time i don't think. also he doesn't know about warframes unless he makes a exhbiti i think.

[proper barn]

also Ballas was like destorying Kullervo for being gay or something during the night of the naga drums.

[celest needle]

But like, a warframe that participated in the the night of naga drums with no history at all

[storm holly]

@proper barn wth

[proper barn]

@storm holly Okay Miles. how many quests have you done

I just wanna know that.

[storm holly]

Welp all quests I didn't do the teacher and the hex get cus I'm getting my Octavia to be strong

[proper barn]

okay actually better question

New war done or no?

[storm holly]

Ye

[proper barn]

okay so.

[strange plinth]

temple getting a leverian would be interesting
it would certainly fit with drusus's motives, but temple already has lore from a meta perspective

[proper barn]

all of DUVIRI.

[storm holly]

Uh-huh

[storm holly]

Wth is temple what did I miss in my one year gone

[proper barn]

was made by Drifter as "conceptual embodiment" of a BOOK the drifter was reading.

[strange plinth]

a warframe. you'll find out more later :)

[storm holly]

I thought the drifter is another version of the operator that didn't accept the man in the walls's offer

[proper barn]

Yes

Well

[storm holly]

I'm making my Octavia stronk but idk if I did the right option

[strange plinth]

close

[proper barn]

they both "make the deal"

[storm holly]

But one becomes Warframe and one is in duviri right?

[proper barn]

drifter is just the one that doesn't get saved AND THUS TO COPE with being STUCK ON A SHIP in THE VOID FOREVER

They read the book

[celest needle]

Get to rank 4 with the hex

[storm holly]

Ah I see

[proper barn]

and make duviri.

[storm holly]

I wanna start the quest after I'm done with my build

[proper barn]

Duviri itself is based on a Book made

[storm holly]

Wait who saves us form the ship?

[proper barn]

By Mother to help people to stay save

during Void travel.

[celest needle]

Have you done The Hex?

[storm holly]

From Deimos?

[proper barn]

yes.

[storm holly]

Nope not yet

[proper barn]

She wasn't always infested.

He was a RENOWED scientist

that worked with her father.

[celest needle]

The Biobomb over deimos:

[storm holly]

That was before she got infested

[proper barn]

SHE IS IN THE ZARIMAN

[celest needle]

yes

[proper barn]

as the TEACHER well pre-recorded

teacher but yes.

[storm holly]

Ohhhh

[proper barn]

like the one that is quizing you

on what eterlanism is.

Cuz She is a scientist and worked with her Father Albretch on all the void stuff.

[storm holly]

Alr basically when the operator and drifter meet in the new war their actually in the zariman talking and the drifter says that he's the one that didn't get saved but the operator gets saved

[proper barn]

part of that was she made the "plains of duviri"

as a Book to try to keep people safe while travling.

[storm holly]

I see

[proper barn]

yes.

[storm holly]

Welp how did the void jump fail?

[proper barn]

Yes.

[storm holly]

And

[celest needle]

Wally[Iirc]

[proper barn]

@storm holly Okay there are A FEW REASONS.

[strange plinth]

mechanical failure and maybe some man in the wall tampering

[storm holly]

Why were we hiding in our classroom when it failed

[celest needle]

Cause the parents

wanted to KILL EVERY CHILD

[storm holly]

Wut Abt em

[celest needle]

The void made them go mad

[storm holly]

😮 WHY

[proper barn]

that's after it failed. but wally made all the parents go crazy.

[jade forge]

The adults went insane, maybe possessed by void angels.

[proper barn]

not adults

Parents. specificly.

[celest needle]

so our Tenno made a deal with Wally and that gave us our void powers

[proper barn]

It's why the holdfasts didn't go inanse.

[celest needle]

Which we then used to defend ourselves

[storm holly]

Why specificaly why not the kids?

[storm holly]

So we killed the parents?

[proper barn]

Cuz wally wanted to see what would happen if the parents of childern tried to kill everyone mainlt the childern.

the holdfasts didn't go insane

cuz they didn't have kids.

[jade forge]

I'm pretty sure the Holdfasts did go insane.

[proper barn]

no they all died.

[celest needle]

We get to choose how did we did but I'm not telling you where

[proper barn]

well originally

anyway before they where reborn

[jade forge]

The parents also eventually died yes

[storm holly]

I did the new war over a year ago

[proper barn]

one of them went insane.

[strange plinth]

war within:

[storm holly]

Who

[proper barn]

@jade forge each holdfast tells you how they died.

[fast dew]

No, wally did it. Scrambled with their brains.

[storm holly]

Ion remember that

[celest needle]

I mean the Stepper conversation

[storm holly]

What are the options?

[celest needle]

You'll get to that

[proper barn]

cage them kill them and some else i think.

[strange plinth]

let someone else kill them

[proper barn]

anyway

[storm holly]

I did all of that man.

I just forgot

[celest needle]

Does that KIM convo count guys?

[strange plinth]

ik, but the first time its brought up is war within. same options as that convo

[storm holly]

So how did mother get to us and save us or how did we get saved? Like the operator is the only one who get saved or all of the kids)

[proper barn]

@storm holly OH i wanted to tell you. the duviri QUEST you do is between the like "new war fade to back" and when you log back in. You bring back lotus' hand FROM duviri to the origin system.

[celest needle]

Oh my god I forgot

[proper barn]

Mother isn't actually there?

[fast dew]

"Mother" is Margulis. She's not our mother.

[proper barn]

Oh all the Kids if you mean marg the ship blips out of the void and they get all the kids out of the zariman.

[jade forge]

All of the children were saved, the Operator we play as is just the one who made the deal. Other tenno exist, they're just the other players. Its a very weird aspect of the lore.

[fast dew]

Not Mother entrati either lel

[storm holly]

Duviri then new war

[proper barn]

Well

start new war "you get stabbed" "duviri" new war" @storm holly

[storm holly]

Oh mb I forgot to correct

[strange plinth]

all of them, the zariman eventually reappeared in real space and was searched by some people, detailed a bit in ember prime's codex

[celest needle]

Has miles done whispers?

[fast dew]

Well i mean mother entrati did help the drifter, just not like Margulis

[proper barn]

my point was

That WE REGROW LOTUS FROM A HAND.

like a starfish.

[strange plinth]

everything except the hex is what they said, i believe

[storm holly]

Ohhh SO WHEN DRIFTER DITS ON THE BIG CHAIR THEN TIWSTS HIS FINGERS NEW WAR STARTS

[storm holly]

With void

[celest needle]

uhuh

[proper barn]

NOT STARTS. AFTER YOU GET STABBED.

[strange plinth]

archon shards, not void

[storm holly]

Over a year ago just came back to Warframe a few days ago

[proper barn]

after you get stabbed in the new war

is when Drifter gets out or after that but before you re-log

[strange plinth]

act 1 of new war > duviri paradox > rest of new war

[storm holly]

I MEANT WHEN WE SWITCH TO HIM BEFORE WE ENCOUNTER THE FIRST ARCHON

[fast dew]

Explodes

[jade forge]

They learn they can leave Duviri after they reset the loop at the end of the quest and then they go off to do their part of TNW

[fast dew]

https://tenor.com/view/yippee-cat-explosion-gif-11079301938727146216

[storm holly]

Ye that's what I meant

[proper barn]

Yes. that's cuz they get out of Duviri. Also Teshin in duviri is literally the teshin that falls INTO THE PORTAL.

[storm holly]

EVERYTHING MSKES FKN SENSE NOW

[proper barn]

like that teshin literally

has NARMER FLAGS.

[storm holly]

Wait I forgot to ask

[celest needle]

Just to note the timeline is

New War part I - You get stabbed by Ballas - Lotus's hand and Teshin falls into Duviri - Narmer takes over the system - Drifter beats Duviri after getting help from the Operator - Ends up in the new war timeline - The New War Part II

[storm holly]

What's the difference between teshin in duviri and teshin outside

[strange plinth]

one's old

[celest needle]

Same

[proper barn]

teshin falls into duviri

[fast dew]

None outside age

[proper barn]

when Erra Slaps him.

[storm holly]

ye the hand that the drifter receives is the lotus's

[fast dew]

They're the same person lol

[celest needle]

yes

[proper barn]

HE HAS THE NARMER FLAGS

AND HIS VIEL IN THE CAVE HE SHOWS THEM TO YOU

[fast dew]

Narmer ballas was pretty lowkey

[strange plinth]

well, older.
teshin was already old.

[proper barn]

and he's like "i mighht have died"

[storm holly]

I see

So he wasn't sure if he died or no

[fast dew]

He wasn't sure, but he didn't die

[proper barn]

he kinda did

[jade forge]

I wasn't sure at first if Duviri Teshin was some kind of ghost or remnant like the Holdfasts

[proper barn]

that is him.

He is "real"

[storm holly]

Welp one sec why after new war does teshin apear as a shadow? Yet he appears in the teacher

[jade forge]

But I believe it's just him

[jade forge]

Teacher is like the second main quest now

[fast dew]

The teacher is set before then

[proper barn]

you are supposed to do teacher really really early.

[strange plinth]

teacher is set way earlier in the timeline
right after vor's prize

[celest needle]

Ballas has got to be like the first villain in a game like this that has barely any redeeming qualities or tragic backstory man is pure shit

[jade forge]

It's the actual introduction to Teshin since he just kind of showed up randomly before this

[storm holly]

Uhh I can make sure that new war was her before it

[proper barn]

also you literally get this for doing the durivi quest btw. the inside has the book with some color drawning on it. @storm holly

[storm holly]

He a coward that's greedy for power

[proper barn]

yes but they can make early quest.

For earlier player lmao.

[strange plinth]

yes, the teacher is a recently added quest that is set very early in the game

[storm holly]

Ah alr but why is he a ghost or shadow now?

[celest needle]

Not even like dignity kind of just pure self obsessed piece of Orokin garbage on the universe who actively makes EVERYTHING worse even after dead

[jade forge]

Because he's in Duviri

[proper barn]

cuz HE FALLS INTO THE PORTAL.

[fast dew]

Does the orokin language on that book translates to its name or nah?

[jade forge]

And I guess can't/won't leave?

[proper barn]

like when erra SMUSHES his face

[storm holly]

So he's in duviri permenantly?

[proper barn]

he falls into the big void portal.

[celest needle]

yeah

[proper barn]

probably.

[celest needle]

But at least he's alive

[storm holly]

THEB WAS THE GHOSTT

[jade forge]

Drifter reset the timeline at the end of Paradox explicitly to revive Teshin

[proper barn]

duviri didn't come out

till after new war miles.

[fast dew]

..no? I don't... think so?

[proper barn]

alSO HE"'S NOT IN THE NORMAL SYSTEM.

[storm holly]

What is the ghost?

[storm holly]

Yh ik that

[proper barn]

not really?

[celest needle]

Basically temporary Teshin cause the game can't work without him

[jade forge]

Otherwise they could've just left

[celest needle]

Not canon by any means

[storm holly]

I think so yeah he did a king von move cus of teshin

[fast dew]

They uh

Kinda did just leave

[proper barn]

i mean reseting was them showing they had the power to controll their emotions

[storm holly]

A memory?

[strange plinth]

that was definitely part of it
idr the exact thing drifter says to teshin at the end

[storm holly]

Teshin gives us the option to stay or leave

[celest needle]

No just the Teshin fill in for all Teshin things since the game can't work without him in the game, like imagine it as a placeholder Teshin that is very much not canon and servesonly gameplay options

[storm holly]

Ah alr

[jade forge]

Like the Lotus hologram was

[humble sierra]

You remember when Lotus left so Ordis used a hologram to simulate her? It's kinda like that but it's unclear who created it

[storm holly]

Ye

[storm holly]

Ohhh alr

[proper barn]

@storm holly i need you to check your inventory and see you have this.

[humble sierra]

Your decorations

[storm holly]

When I get the chance cus I can't en

[proper barn]

also @storm holly do you know you can have the drifter camp as your default login.

as well as another place you might not have gotten to yet.

[humble sierra]

Yeah have you finished the story @storm holly?

[storm holly]

Ik I keep spawning to it

[celest needle]

https://www.warframe.com/news/operator-report

[storm holly]

Not the hex nor the teacher

[celest needle]

This should catch him up

[fast dew]

Lowkey hate when people ignore that Thrax is written as a child. "Oh why is thrax being so mean" BECAUSE HE'S SCARED OF LOSING HIS ONLY FRIEND

[celest needle]

Soulframe get the hell out of my LORE DOC I'll try you LATER

[celest needle]

I mean to be fair he's also a child who has absolute power

So he's also not a good person but his motive is understandable from a childs perpsective

Doesn't have that much emotional inteligence

[fast dew]

That's like. The entire point of thrax. To be emotionally stupid 😭 like have some grace for him, he aint got a choice in acting like that

[strange plinth]

Teshin: "-you did. But... you reset it. You gave it all back to him. Why?"
Drifter: "I guess it... felt like a good trade."
trading full control over duviri for having teshin back is how i read that

[humble sierra]

Ah yeah the Hex is the next main quest

And it's a bit of a ||two parter||

[celest needle]

its also an ||album ||

[humble sierra]

Peak album yeah

[celest needle]

Rusalka doing EVERYTHING but taking over ||Duviri ||😭

[tropic cliff]

She has been doing nothing since 1999

Pun intended

[restive river]

Before we get there Wally sneaks in
After we save it he’s hollowed her and they head to Duviri
Where we promptly cut the strand and boot them once again

Wally needs to do better than two fragmented tbh

[strange plinth]

Four Fragmented

[restive river]

oh no

[hot mural]

@restive river

Is Soulframe good, planning to get the arrow bundle

[tropic cliff]

Are we all believing that? Wally is going to be on demon timing like Pennywise welcome to derry

[humble sierra]

?

That's what happened yeah, Wally is puppeting Rusalka

[tall echo]

Yes

[humble sierra]

Just so you know the full bundle is the same price as a Complete Prime Access

Roughly

[dire mountain]

There was the legacyte during the Hex

[barren jasper]

def not what I was thinking of

[humble sierra]

Lephantis?

[barren jasper]

no its resolved I provably just misrememberd but its nothing from the comments above

[humble sierra]

"Why do you hurt us? For we are your flesh!" Or something

[fast dew]

I hated that boss so bad

The rage and anger

[restive river]

Yes, if you’re interested in founders I recommend it
Though I also recommend looking into which pack you really want, how the weapons play, how the pact plays, if you like the cosmetics, etc etc

[hot mural]

I like all except the arrow playability

Saw the trailer is it like different arrows diff elements type of Lavos?

[restive river]

Wdym?

[hot mural]

In the trailer he used an ability/ies where the bow had diff colours(blue,green and red ) maybe cold,fire and toxic?

[restive river]

No, that’s not how Soulframe works lol
Those color refer to the virtues

[hot mural]

Oh btw havent played it b4 thats why]

I looked at him and liked the colour and stealth ability

[restive river]

I’d do your own research
I believe you’re talking about Sirin, which is a stealth pact

I’ve heard it’s the weakest of the 3 so

[hot mural]

Oh

Whats the strongest?

Red or Green

[restive river]

Idk
I haven’t played Tethren
I like Oscelda but idk if it’s strong strong
Soulframe is kinda like Warframe so far, there’s no “strongest” idek if there’s a defined “meta” yet
Again, I would urge you to do your own research

[hot mural]

bet

[restive river]

Have fun

[hot mural]

I thought it was like "Theres no good warframe, all are good with the correct build & mods"

[restive river]

Yeah kinda? There’s still growing pains for sure

[hot mural]

And I have my Loki with spiders webs and dust in the shadows of my orbiter forgotten

[humble sierra]

Yeah it's still the same, there's not a Meta for Soulframe either

it's just that the two are vastly different games

it's not easy to compare things

[restive river]

I think stealth is stronger in SF for sure, but Sirin isn’t required for that at all

[hot mural]

U know what Im gonna buy the entire bundle

[restive river]

The only things that are comparable is the monetization and crafting times (which are better)

[hot mural]

Im rich like that fr

[restive river]

Again, please do your own research FIRST

[humble sierra]

Maybe try and get a key first

try the game out

[hot mural]

too late buying it rn

[humble sierra]

ducky is more than happy to provide you with one

[fast dew]

Oh okay damn

[hot mural]

Any ekitten wants a sword skin

[hot mural]

@restive river : 3

Me :3

[restive river]

I got Wyld Oscelda and I know I want it all (mostly for Paragon and to support it) but I also know I may not use Wyld Tethren’s armor or Wyld Sirin

[fast dew]

If you call anyone that again i will personally find you and put hot sauce in your socks.

[restive river]

Sorry but I need to know if some of my favorites are wanting to play it first

[humble sierra]

I'm gonna wait until the Warframe devstream to make any financial decisions

[fast dew]

I have access to soulframe actually

[humble sierra]

If Gyre Prime access has some good loot I'll buy that

[hot mural]

This is why I want Sirin

[restive river]

The bird is very cute

[hot mural]

Look at the bird and that flower

[humble sierra]

If not I'll get SoulFrame

[fast dew]

Forgot i got access to it during tennocon

[restive river]

He’s like a mix of loki and a snail but a bird and I love it

[celest needle]

What if Soulframe is a prequel to warframe

[fast dew]

Radwars but not obliterated

[hot mural]

Actually what does the skull in the necramechs do ?

[restive river]

It’s not, they’re not connected.

[restive river]

Looks cool

[fast dew]

No clue, it might have something to do with transference?

[restive river]

Transference wasn’t used on them til Heart of Deimos

[celest needle]

Necramech without the Nerca would just be mech

[fast dew]

The entrati family as a whole apparently really likes bones

[hot mural]

@restive river Wheve known each other for SOOOOO long, please :3

[dark compass]

And gold coins

[fast dew]

Like they have ossuaries

[restive river]

Iirc they were autonomous, the problem is they were just really stupid

[dark compass]

They're pirates

[hot mural]

Fr

[fast dew]

Ossuaries of who? God knows but thats a lot of dead bodies.

[restive river]

I’m sorry ):
I fear by the time I have enough to spare you will have the game already lol

[hot mural]

Uhh yeah by tomorrow xd

[restive river]

Buying Paragon gives you 10 codes
Buying the others gives 2 I think

[fast dew]

Hopefully the servants and assistants they've had

[dark compass]

They also give you sword codes

I think?

[restive river]

Yeah, I would just recommend to do research before you buy
It’s a fun game regardless thi

[celest needle]

Why weren't more Nercaloids made?

[hot mural]

Yeah

[fast dew]

Possibly the past yuvans too

[restive river]

Yes but only when the old peace launches

[fast dew]

There's only one loid, i guess. We don't even know how necraloid exists with Loid's existence

[celest needle]

They cloned him to some extent

[restive river]

I wanna say it sounded like there were more but I’m unsure

[fast dew]

"The necraloid" i can see it

[hot mural]

I’ll look at it later I have an exam at uni today so can’t be distracted

[fast dew]

His skull for whatever reason 😭

[celest needle]

Requirement of the entrati

[fast dew]

Dante wanting to look at it is so real

[restive river]

Albrecht def did a thing
We know his skull was replicated
We know Necraloid is a “construct” and seemingly some kind of cephalon
We also know his mind was edited same as other cephalons, his emotional centers are less intact (likely regarding Loid’s fondness of Albrecht)

[fast dew]

I like to think its a ordis/ordan situation tbh

[restive river]

Necraloid is def a more logical version of Loid, but still emotional in his own way for sure

[restive river]

What

[fast dew]

Hold on

Lemme explain

[restive river]

Goodluck!

[hot mural]

Thomas can u draw Albrecht pregnant

[fast dew]

So like. Ordan was the og right? Then his precepts forces him to act like ordis, yeah? And ordis (the imposed "personality") is dominant

So like. What if they did that to otak? Grabbed otak and forced him to act as Loid, and the quips of Otak being the same sorta quips ordan has sometimes?

This is just a funny haha theory but it is one i like to think of sometimes. Realistically i know Loid was probably just cloned 😭

[restive river]

Check your dms btw

[fast dew]

Im so sorry what

I mean. I could, wouldn't be the first time ive drawn a man pregnant

[tropic cliff]

I think there’s a term for that I keep hearing it’s called MPREG

[restive river]

Isn’t Necraloid like pretty blatantly a copy of Loid to some extent?
It would be an interesting theory but I don’t believe it tracks, unfortunately

[tropic cliff]

Also, what the muck

[celest needle]

What the muck

[restive river]

Do it more

[fast dew]

Mhm, pretty close, but yeah, its super unlikely. That's just the most peaceful version that doesn't have Albrecht killing Loid's clone 😭

This fandom is a prison

[restive river]

It’s not death!!
It’s a worse punishment than death!

[fast dew]

Though, given the orokin's feelings for clones, there is a chance Loid would've been a bit happy to see it die

[tropic cliff]

It’s almost December the update is coming

[dark compass]

Sorry, I ate the clone

[fast dew]

Shhh Loid doesn't know that/j

[restive river]

Depends if he had the same views
Which
Probably, that would have been normalized

[celest needle]

Okay we're moving on now

[dark compass]

It will return

[tropic cliff]

That means before I can do the main new story. I gotta replay all the operator base missions so my operator will look better

[celest needle]

191 in one day

ONE
MUCKIN
DAY

[restive river]

My best guess is 10 years from second dream for the release date
Aka
Less than a week!

[fast dew]

Given Loid's own feelings towards necraloid as a whole, not entirely impossible

[restive river]

He does not like him lmao

[strange plinth]

he uses construct like a slur

[fast dew]

"Construct" like bro said it like a slur damn

[strange plinth]

same braincell lmao

[restive river]

LMAO

[fast dew]

HEHEH

[celest needle]

Now we have a cephalon slur

[restive river]

HE DOES AND THIS IS PROOF

[restive river]

We have at least 3 slurs i think

[tropic cliff]

Why are you out with your discovering new warfare slurs

[hot mural]

Void Lugger Construct and Kiddo

[restive river]

Grineer calling sentients Worms

[fast dew]

Like i was sitting there playing whispers for the first time and im like.

Damn, this twink is too comfortable with using slurs/j

[restive river]

Kiddo isn’t, it’s literally what our dad called us lmao

[celest needle]

Vay Hek calls EVERYTHING worms

[restive river]

I’m not talking about him lol

[hot mural]

Ima call u kiddo see if u like it or it pissies u off

[restive river]

The Grineer call sentients worms
Vay hek is using it wrong

[tropic cliff]

Only one person that does that and it pisses me off Wally

[celest needle]

I played whispers in the wall and after beating it took a second for my brain to just say

"Are they mucking?"

[fast dew]

I also immediately clocked the gay shit in whispers and felt mildly schizophrenic when someone told me that they weren't (they were wrong)

[restive river]

If you do it while smiling I’ll point at you and make a youtube theory video about how you’re wally confirmed totally real gone wrong

[fast dew]

My gaydar is too strong to miss it

[tropic cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/gay-radar-gaydar-gif-10800110

[restive river]

Why’s it pop up so late lol

[tropic cliff]

We have a live recording of it in action

[fast dew]

Every time i see someone say grandmother/Dagath is Albrecht's wife, i lose several braincells

[restive river]

LMAO real

[tropic cliff]

What yo who are you talking to that say that