lore-discussion

[woven coyote]

Rap tap tap is wally's thing tho

[spark onyx]

Don't they mention the tenno having some sort of divine blood or something? Are tenno technically divine entities just not gods due to a lack of worshipping

[lunar flume]

I know

[strange plinth]

cephalon cy doesn't seem to be able to perceive the finger in the railjack. might've prevented him from doing his thing

[woven coyote]

No

Like none of that at all

[spark onyx]

Why are the frames always named after divine figures?

[woven coyote]

Not always

[spark onyx]

Mostly

[strange plinth]

Vor thinks the tenno have divine blood, but its never really brought up again
ig technically the queens want your body for continuity in war within but that's the closest

[woven coyote]

Also not divine but rather mythical

[spark onyx]

And aren't some of the frames planetary level threats?

[woven coyote]

I think you might be watching too much youtube

[spark onyx]

I was watching death battle's excal

[woven coyote]

Explains a lot

[strange plinth]

they're powerful but not planetary threat powerful

[spark onyx]

I heard the divinity from the very beginning of the game

[woven coyote]

Like youtube is horrible for warframe lore

[spark onyx]

How tf did abusive ass ex boyfriend plan on taking THE SUN then?

[spice wedge]

By using lotus powers and her mothership.

[spark onyx]

Wait- how strong is lotus?

[spice wedge]

just enough to close down the portal when man in the wall appears

[spark onyx]

What even is it?

[spice wedge]

I have other question what did that man in the wall was saying during the moments of his appearance

[woven coyote]

Phragasa mostly
Lotus if anything controlled phragasa to close the gate

[lean garden]

mostly? we have like what 3?

[spark onyx]

Man I barely have any

[strange plinth]

the ship that repairs herself by eating debris of other ships bumped up to like . 20.

[woven coyote]

Aka lotus' mom

Unironically

[strange plinth]

yeah

[lean garden]

Wukong Nezha Loki. I cant remember off the top of my head any more actual deific figures

[twin wigeon]

I think Praghasa is the corpse of her mom, idk tho

[spark onyx]

Why was there some mention of divinity in the start of the game...

[lean garden]

titania and oberon dont count, thems Shakespeare's

[woven coyote]

Basically yeah

[twin wigeon]

bc iirc erra talked about something about mother being gone

[lean garden]

pointing the vacuum cleaner at the big ball

[woven coyote]

Something something technogy advanced enough looks like magic
Combined with insane empire of pretend gods

[strange plinth]

Vor believes you have divine blood, but he's wrong and/or misinformed

[spice wedge]

wait did you know thst lotus was talking about her parents during the ships runs.

[woven coyote]

No actual divinity ever involved

[spice wedge]

About mom,dad

Farming

[lean garden]

you mean like during the ropalolyst fight?

[humble sierra]

My mother was a carpenter, my father a farmer

[twin wigeon]

Oh during the ropalolyst fight

[spice wedge]

Yes

[humble sierra]

Or something like that

[dry cobalt]

I mean... we can't actually prove wally didn't fundamentally alter or dna. And bro is pretty close to divine

[strange plinth]

her body is still active, but the mind is gone, yes

[spark onyx]

Considering the fact that one of the starter frames is named Excalibur and can summon an op as hell sword that can wipe out armies, I can't blame him

[spice wedge]

So how did her mom and dad became that 1 mothership

[dry cobalt]

Makes sense that she could be turned into a warship if she was even close in size class to her husband

[humble sierra]

The mother, Praghasa,is the mothership, the dad is Hunhow

[twin wigeon]

I mean carpenter could be like she carved sentients out of her body and farmer could be like hunhow reaped lives

[spice wedge]

1 important question remains, how did they managed to make them like that.

[twin wigeon]

again idk if sentients are carved from her body

[woven coyote]

Farmer is probably about the terraforming of tau

[humble sierra]

Hunhow has a "womb"

[strange plinth]

we have "void saturated dna" according to the coda spawn dialogue, but that's not quite divine

[humble sierra]

He was able to produce Sentients

[spice wedge]

with void powers or

[woven coyote]

...

[humble sierra]

They're robots

[twin wigeon]

Sentients are able to replicate and reproduce asexually i believe

[dry cobalt]

I do not know enough about sentient genetics, how the Orokin can modify it like Ballass did to mom... or how the sentients learned to self modify it. To answer that

[woven coyote]

When not void poisoned

[spice wedge]

I hope old peace explains this or devil's triad.

[lean garden]

aint gon call that smarmy bugger any bit divine

[twin wigeon]

so praghasa and hunhow were likely the first and thus stayed in the origin system so that the orokin could send their children into tau

[lean garden]

Why is anyone surprised that the mimic queen is able to mimic another person

[lean garden]

huh?

[woven coyote]

No they travelled to tau
It's the return through solar rails and thus void that poisoned them

[humble sierra]

Same update, but the Old Peace side of things is more likely to explain it than Devil's Triad side— but probably won't

[spice wedge]

than why did entrati gone to a past of xx

Something was there.

[twin wigeon]

oh? then where are all the sentients we encounter from tau from? are they just reserved sentients sent by hunhow or smth

[strange plinth]

fragments of hunhow iirc

[woven coyote]

Yeah most of the ones we fight are fragments not full sentients

[spark onyx]

Is The Man in the Wall a god?

[spice wedge]

Like on teacher's quest lotus has said something important about tenno and teshin was asking lotus many many things.

[twin wigeon]

but i thought he can't reproduce anymore due to void exposure

[strange plinth]

acts like it, more than likely isn't

[lean garden]

and other sentient forces that remained after the Old War

[spice wedge]

Did anyone listened to that.

[twin wigeon]

no, not in the conventional sense

[spark onyx]

Rather some eldritch powerful entity?

But not a god level entity?

[humble sierra]

He was talking about everything related to the Tenno being a child

[strange plinth]

fragmentation, yes. full sentient reproduction, no

[humble sierra]

And what they did in the Old War to the Orokin

Nothing new, really

[spark onyx]

What is the greatest feat of the Tenno?

[spice wedge]

True, now old peace will be bringing the tenno powers for focus

[twin wigeon]

Wally apparently is older than the stars or smth, alberect mentions this in his notes

[woven coyote]

Systematic genocide

[spice wedge]

But how we will upgrade it.

[twin wigeon]

Regicide/ Genocide

[strange plinth]

prolly killing the orokin
system-wide classicide isn't the easiest thing to pull off

[twin wigeon]

Oligicide? is that a thing?

im making up words atp

[strange plinth]

funny how we all go to the same thing yet use like four different terms for it

[spark onyx]

And uh (Ik this may be annoying to ask) where would the tenno scale.

[twin wigeon]

Basically we killed a whole lotta people for good reasons and intents

[humble sierra]

So far his feats include:

merging realities
Giving the Tenno powers
Potentially able to manipulate events to get the Tenno to kill the Orokin, slumber until he was finished torturing Rell, unleashing himself, then getting Ballas to tear a hole in the Void

[woven coyote]

When you put his mention of other heralds that "looked like us"
And the description of that dust resource from isleweaver together
Yeah he probably did a lot of stuff

[spice wedge]

At the same time we can be right and we can be wrong .

[twin wigeon]

ehhhhhhh we're likely in the right, unsure how extensive the slaughter was bc we could've killed faultless orokin children as well as destroyed helpful research or smth

[woven coyote]

We don't really know if he has any relation to ballas wanting to open the portal

[spark onyx]

So it seems he has no specific side, but he may still be a major antagonist in the future? Seems Warframe ain't ending anytime soon

[humble sierra]

Yeah of course, that third point is exclusively speculation

[humble sierra]

He's the current main antagonist

[woven coyote]

Kinda already is

[strange plinth]

we avoided regular civilians tbf
gauss and grendel leverians have proof of that iirc

[spark onyx]

?

[spark onyx]

Damn. Soooo future boss? May set the Tenno higher? Man I am just trying to see if the tenno will ever surpass the Guardian from Destiny 2. I used to like D2, but hell no.

[woven coyote]

Well at least we dont have a claptrap wannabe of a weakpoint exposing itself as much as it can

[twin wigeon]

ehhhhhhhhh Wally isn't exactly a perfect antagonist

its more his influence and actions that cause harm whether it was with malice or not

[spark onyx]

Lmao

[lean garden]

Powerscaling the Guardian is also a fools game lmao

[spark onyx]

Most likely will get more antagonistic feats later on.

[twin wigeon]

doubt it.

[lean garden]

I swear anyone who tries has never actually done Salvation's Edge

[woven coyote]

This isnt what the game is about anyway

Like this aint dbz

[olive salmon]

Eternalism: A lot of people died because of our good intentions. A lot of people died because of our bad intentions. In the end, all that’s fundamentally true is a lot of people died because of us, though both scenarios exist and the scenario we aren’t presently in is theoretically accessible.

[spark onyx]

Eh I just want to know. Knew it would be annoying

[lean garden]

Aint none of them can name the buff you get during the dps phase

[twin wigeon]

Dammit, i hate how right this is

[woven coyote]

Not saying it is annoying
Just that since the game doesnt focus on those types of comparisons it becomes harder to even try to give those answers

[strange plinth]

i mean, his most recent actions have been taking over an entire city, losing it, then taking over part of duviri

• his usual chasing albrecht shenanigans

[strange plinth]

"chroma is one of the strongest warframes" /s

[woven coyote]

Yeah

Like the writers arent even thinking about actually comparing that kinda thing

[spark onyx]

The only thing carrying the Guardian is the Witness being defeated by 12.

[spark onyx]

Does that even still hold up?

[woven coyote]

They're just moving the plot forward while leaving enough space for more expansions (bcs live service)

[lean garden]

Have you done that mission yourself?

[spark onyx]

I ain't got jack for money

[lean garden]

because theres always a critical thing that powerscalers always miss in that mission

[strange plinth]

idk if it even held up at the time the quest released lmao

[spark onyx]

Thay thing is expensive

I also do not play Destiny anymore for the money reason.

[woven coyote]

I mean back when they didnt know the math homework on vex armor was wrong chroma was indeed very strong

[twin wigeon]

wouldn't nidus be more powerful since he's made up of some primal form of the infestation according to the prime description?

[old dome]

theyre all powerful in their own ways.
-# this is why i feel like powerscaling unknown variables is kinda impossible...

[twin wigeon]

mhm

[strange plinth]

nidus is odd to do anything with. next to no lore. figuratively called a demigod (which some people take as literal for some reason). some other point that i can't think of

[humble sierra]

Oh right, Destiny 2 locks story content behind paywalls and also deletes old content permanently no take backs

[twin wigeon]

Common Destiny L 🥱

[lean garden]

and its the fact that the Traveler is buffing the guardians during dps

and the Traveler is the one thats being channeled in that final kamehameha

[celest needle]

So

Can the sentients take over Cephalons?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684050432565182477/1253199881506394164/cat-1-1.gif

[strange plinth]

hunhow tried to take over suda during octavia's anthem

[humble sierra]

Yeah

Ordis almost died

[dry cobalt]

Huh... that quest sounds... more interesting than I thought it was

[humble sierra]

Unclear if it's permanent irreversible damage

[celest needle]

I'm wondering since like

what is the extent of this thing?

Is it just sentients like Hunhow or can like, the rest of them do this

[humble sierra]

The fragments probably can't

[dry cobalt]

Man... why does grandpa always have to be so wishy washy? One minute he's soft and sentimental. And the next he's trying to dismantle our livelihoods

[humble sierra]

Tbf this was during his early phase

[dry cobalt]

Even sent uncle Sorren to put us in the forever box

Meanie....

[celest needle]

After the new war he kind of grew depressed

[old dome]

octavia's quest was before tnw i think...

[humble sierra]

It's very funny doing Octavia after New War or Jade shadows

[celest needle]

But how about other advanced sentients like Natah and Erra ?

[old dome]

"oh. so thats how terrible you were..."

[humble sierra]

Can be done right after Second Dream I think

[dry cobalt]

Well yea. He spent god knows how long thinking his last child was going to die an orokin tool with him being too weak to do anything to stop Ballass or help her.

[celest needle]

I mean its not any better for his family now

His son is leading a cult and his daughter is facing space satan

and now the Stalker just left him

[dry cobalt]

It's really not. Point was that'll do some stuff for you

[humble sierra]

Reunions must be wild

[dry cobalt]

I mean... I feel like he's at least proud of Lotus. Don't think he'd have told us how to put Jade back together if he wasn't.

[celest needle]

He's had the most Character development despite being stuck in one location for 90% of the entire game

[old dome]

his son's mind is half possessed by something & his daughter is giving him the coldest shoulder ever... oof.

[dry cobalt]

Also I knew that feck didn't go down in an honorable sacrifice....

[celest needle]

you done veilbreaker?

[dry cobalt]

I mean... he did send our adoptive uncle to kill her children

[humble sierra]

"So, Erra, what'd you get up to in the weekend?"
"BITE MY HEAD CLEAN OFF, MOTHER! THATS WHERE THE GOOD MEAT IS"
"Ooookay... and you, Natah?"
"Ilve ilve Mara, utri ferm iatra, Amare Jeliira, utu lohv utu"

[strange plinth]

> let out of his tomb
> sends the stalker to do things
> attempts to hack suda and gets stopped
> continues sitting down there
> helps some random tenno to save his daughter, yells at his son
> stalker leaves
> still down there

[dry cobalt]

I was in the middle of doing it... and then Khals command function broke and softlocked me... so I closed the mission... and forgot to go back to it.

[celest needle]

Finish it

[humble sierra]

"That's nice. I found some skater girl and gave her a new outfit"

[strange plinth]

i forget pandea is canon lmao

[dry cobalt]

Huh?

[celest needle]

With the fall of the Orokin, Yareli Pandea drifted into the ocean's depths where Hunhow rediscovered her. Now, she ascends to fight once more.

[dry cobalt]

Also I'm lowkey mad that we have this cool animation trailer for stynax. But it seems to be entirely cinematic and completely unrelated to his acquisition method

[dry cobalt]

okay well now I have several questions for grandmother entrati....

[celest needle]

Like?

[strange plinth]

• this bit from reaper's lament
  Hunhow: "Another of their number flows past my sodden grave. Did you see her, my Shadow? Of course you did… So unlike your perfunctory skulking, she rises resplendent—full of brazen, fragrant life. In my own lost vibrancy, oh how I would have reveled in snuffing out her playful joy!
  Unfortunately, something beat me to the task, delivering only a wounded husk into my grasp.
  I grow sentimental in my rot. Else I’ve been down here long enough to find kinship with my fellow jetsam. Instead of final death, I offered her the insult of rescue. A worldshaper’s breath “adapting” her shape to better survive our shared prison. And still her spirit did not break, my Shadow!"

[humble sierra]

Yareli Pandea ≠ Yareli ≠ Yareli Prime

[dry cobalt]

Oooh

Okay

[celest needle]

Warframes can have multiple versions

[dry cobalt]

I mean... now I want to see an example of this one in universe. Even if it's just a cinematic, art or lore entry. The idea of hunhow reforging a dead warframe. And presumably an original frame at that.... fascinating

[strange plinth]

need a hunhow deluxe collection now,,

[celest needle]

I wonder how DE designs their original protoframes

Like do they make the frame first based on the aesthetic of the update and then make the protoframe or do they make the protoframe and then make a frame centered around it

[humble sierra]

Uriel and Temple were both old unused Minki designs, I believe

[celest needle]

How about for Cyte?

[strange plinth]

not sure how long the concept for Temple has been around but iirc Liger Kaz was a big part of their final design

[celest needle]

Temple was conceptualized and drawn by Kaz Adams back in 2018. After Devstream 184, Adams would share concept art and WIP models on Twitter/X.

[strange plinth]

ah right it was Kaz, not Liger

[celest needle]

Weird seeing how different temple was without the Technocyte aesthetic

[twin wigeon]

different? this looks like temple still

would be rad to have this as a skin for lizzie and temple

[strange plinth]

its still recognizable as temple, yeah
but the aesthetic is fairly different. wonder how close it would be w/o the guitar

[twin wigeon]

the size of he guitar makes me believe that they'd would be more melee oriented using the guitar as an axe

[celest needle]

Also looks like a void string thing?

The void or whatever was in it seems to be powering the guitar

[twin wigeon]

was that a java joke

oh

[celest needle]

I'm hoping you know I am way too stupid to even let alone reference that

[twin wigeon]

oh -_- dw me too

am just a goose

[narrow pendant]

axe guitar

[fast dew]

She won't tell you much, but she'll listen to you

[dark compass]

Cyte is also an ancient design

[fast dew]

Cyte is as old as normal warframes

OH YOU

Hold on im so smart

[dark compass]

It was initially planned to be used for Lavos

[restive river]

Ye he was initially the design for the alchemy frame but they went with Lavo

In universe lore is the design was just lost iirc

[stiff fable]

Good choice tbh

[fast dew]

Thomas tries not to be stupid challenge (hard mode)

[restive river]

In some ways Cyte does Lavo’s and Koumei’s gimmicks better than they do lol

[dark compass]

I'm not sure about that

Cyte is a weak point hitter with elemental weapon buffs

[restive river]

Oh you wanna gamble? Cyte’s got a button for that
Oh you want any status in the game?
That’s just one of his entire abilities

[celest needle]

Everybody is stupid at least as many times as they need

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051425900522115074/1309972169261842493/togif.gif

[dark compass]

Gambling is optional on cyte?

[restive river]

Yeah, and he does gambling better than Koumei cause it actually does something

[restive river]

Yeah

[dark compass]

I don't think it's any real gambling

It's just a quick result without choice

[celest needle]

Profit Taker orbs shed tears when Cyte came out

[restive river]

With Koumei it feels like her dice literally do not matter unless you get high rolls

[restive river]

You choose the random option and you randomly get a thing, it may or may not be beneficial to you
It’s optionally luck based

[dark compass]

I would not call Cyte's random ammo drop better gambling than a frame with conditional gameplay changes that give you random snowballing buffs

And skills entirely dependent on rng with how much you get out of them

[restive river]

The problem with Koumei is her gambling doesn’t have as much of an impact or. Even a negative unless you roll high (there is no negative)

[dark compass]

That's just gambling?

You say that but I got set on fire once for a decree

[restive river]

There’s no impact, hitting sixes is desired but hitting all ones isn’t a bad thing

Her randomized tasks are a better gamble mechanic cause you might get one you want, or you won’t

[strange plinth]

all ones does feel bad to roll, but you just cast the ability again
force a cooldown or something

[dark compass]

I just don't think a completely optional barely important side of the tool is in any way "better" than an entire kit designed to snowball using the concept

[restive river]

I like Koumei but she fails at being a luck based gambler theme, her gameplay doesn’t really reflect it, or rather it doesn’t reflect it properly

[restive river]

No, it’s not
That one ability isn’t better than Koumei as a whole
But as a gambling gimmick? As a luck based thing? Yeah, it’s better

[dark compass]

Either way, I'm not playing Koumei enough to say anything

[restive river]

I can optionally do random elemental ammo and maybe get one that helps

[dark compass]

But this is definitely not doing the gimmick better than Lavos

[restive river]

I’ve played her enough that I can say something lol

[dark compass]

He doesn't even have Valence Formation as a part of his base kit

[restive river]

It does it as good as valence formation

[dark compass]

It doesn't actually

[restive river]

In the realm of put status on weapon

I mean obviously Lavos is gonna do it better cause it’s his entire kit
But it’s a button tap for any elemental damage or Lavos’ whole kit

[dark compass]

It doesn't affect abilities, it doesn't last longer than a clip, it doesn't affect archguns, it doesn't affect incarnons, it doesn't affect melees

[restive river]

Both are good, one def does it better

Lavos is like if Cyte’s ammo gimmick was a whole Warframe
Which
That’s probably why he has it, he was going to be that Warframe lol

[dark compass]

And it costs energy

[restive river]

Oh no
Where will I get more energy

[dark compass]

The only thing Resupply does better than Valence Formation is not needing an augment

And being one of those toxin lash abilities for the purposes of sobek nuke setups

[restive river]

My point is it does Lavos’ entire gimmick, it is just for weapons with clips but hey, it’s simple and easy to use

[celest needle]

Anybody wish that Styanax was more spartan

[restive river]

I like Lavos but he needs some tuning

[celest needle]

cause right now he only exists for subsuming and his 4

[dark compass]

Elements part are definitely not a problem with Lavos

[restive river]

Maybe this is a hot take but he’s always felt clunky

[dark compass]

It doesn't do "Lavos' entire gimmick"

Its just one of his augments

[restive river]

Like you can not tell me Cyte’s resupply isn’t an easy way to get elemental damage

[strange plinth]

what even is his subsume
i enjoyed styanax while i had him, kinda regretted subsuming him
but i am not doing a bunch of kahl missions to get another when his prime should be fairly soon

[dark compass]

Shield bash. Armor/shield strip, heal, 25 energy

[restive river]

It does “have access to any element” in a less clunky way

[dark compass]

Crit damage buff from a new augment

[dark compass]

Only for a gun

[restive river]

Styanax is good
I remember when you could fly with his 1

[dark compass]

Lavos can be played as a caster and as a weapon buffer

You're not playing Cyte as a caster

And his element spreading is much, much stronger

[restive river]

Yes, that’s the limitation
Obviously one ability isn’t going to do everything one frame does, but it still does it faster and better than Lavos

Purely in the application of status damage to a weapon

[dark compass]

It still doesn't even touch upon Lavos' kit, it only mimics his augment

[restive river]

I’m not comparing the two of them as a whole, I’m saying Cyte’s one ability does something Lavos does moderately better

[dark compass]

I'm saying that Lavos doesn't even have this baseline

[restive river]

The gimmick of “any element at a whim” is done better on Resupply, that’s it
They aren’t comparable frames beyond that cause they have different play styles, completely different abilities

[dark compass]

Anyways it's just a lore discussion, our talk is subjective game design garbage and probably half semantics

Let's move on

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-kiss-cat-kiss-i-love-you-cats-come-here-gif-13285512475491830947

Or at least change the channel if you want to continue

[celest needle]

How does the creation process of a warfare actually go

what is up to the designer, person, whatever the hell the infestation is feeling that day

[strange plinth]

designing, some amount of editing the helminth batch i'd assume, injection (probably not unique to protos?), transformation

steps 2 and 3 have little evidence but idk what else would be going on there

[restive river]

We know they’re designed
Applied to people
And then you got a finished frame

[dark compass]

Orokin got the biological sciences down, I imagine it's not that difficult to nail the design down as well

[restive river]

We know that the infestation is malleable to some extent during the process cause Mirage

[restive river]

They’re just good at working with the infestation too, unsure how much the biological sciences would come into play in designing frames beyond the desired outcomes
It just depends on how the infestation works and is modified

Infestation’s weird
Sorta biological
Sorta not

[humble sierra]

Yeah it seems based off code that evolved

[dark compass]

Bio lab in dojo is the infestation one, I'm sure there's common ground somewhere

[narrow pendant]

my interpretation has always been that the designing is mostly the looks and theming of their abilities and the frame/ person's personality impacts roughly how they interpret it into their abilities

[dark compass]

[restive river]

Tbh with the infestation they may not have needed to worry too much about some biological factors, it might’ve just done it by itself

[humble sierra]

Yep but they still had enough influence to make design choices

[strange plinth]

the big thing against that is parvos specifically requesting temporal manipulation for protea
so they likely have a decent sway over the individual abilities

[restive river]

Not really the case since the Protos don’t alter their abilities at all, at most they find creative ways to use them

[humble sierra]

Like Ballas giving Gara glass powers as a joke because Nihil wanted her glassed

[restive river]

The personality that shines through is just remnants of who they were
The only frames who actually altered their initial designs are Mirage, technically Xaku and technically Temple

[dark compass]

Vauban thinking moments before getting turned into a warframe:
"Balls... Exploding balls... Shrapnel balls... "

[humble sierra]

Lavos too by Priming himself

[celest needle]

Speaking of that

HOW DO WE CLONE XAKU

[narrow pendant]

works in the case of mirage, and id speculate the person becoming protea was loyal to parvos to begin with so they chose to follow the design? idk something like that

[restive river]

True

[dark compass]

Wouldn't he count even before priming. His entire set of abilities is based on alchemy and he got the serpents

[restive river]

Easily? They’re still Warframe bits and our scanner tech is so good it can rebuild Umbra’s brain from fragments

[dark compass]

He was not like that before, it seems

[narrow pendant]

some frames had strong enough minds to affect how they turned out, some chose not to or couldnt

[celest needle]

But he's like
70% void and bunch of other warframes

[humble sierra]

Lorewise we (the operator) probably only have one each and not all Warframes were mass produced

[restive river]

The serpents would be, he was gifted the ability of alchemy and used that knowledge from Javi

[dark compass]

Yeah he counts

[restive river]

They
And they’re still composed of 3 frames

[narrow pendant]

i mean they cloned the friggin finger

[humble sierra]

Xaku Prime also doesn't seem to be three frames, it seems like an intentional single figure?

[narrow pendant]

orokin tech be like: if we got it into existence we copy paste it

[dark compass]

If we can clone the void finger we can clone some tendrils and junk holding together

[restive river]

I keep forgetting
Does anything actually say that?

[narrow pendant]

all railjacks have one, i believe the zariman has either just a bigger one or the original one

[dark compass]

They refer to having copies and the original

[humble sierra]

Something about the Reliwuaey drive and "The originals"

[restive river]

No, they are
It’s just less obvious cause the more unified design

[stiff fable]

Not specifically the Orokin

[humble sierra]

Wewikwaky Dwive

[stiff fable]

But when Wally's finger was severed, multiple hit the floor

[restive river]

No I know but I’m referring to it being cloned

[narrow pendant]

while not confirmed the design suggest an entrati gilded the original zaku

[restive river]

I am well aware there are multiple

[stiff fable]

And as I've mentioned before, one trait of a genuine holy relic in Catholocism is "can self-replicate"

[strange plinth]

there seems to be a difference between "originals" and whatever's in the zariman's drive
but iirc that's the only proper evidence of replication/cloning/whatever

[dark compass]

That sounds like they wanted to sell merchandize

[restive river]

The hard part is the voidy aspect of Xaku but if those aspects are from the remnant personalities thoughts and emotions reacting with the void then all you’d need is to replicate their minds and boom
Recreated Xaku

[humble sierra]

(when the Tenno approaches the Eternal Relic) Cavalero: "Hey, Yonta, how many of those big finger-relics are out there, d'you think?"

Archimedian Yonta: "Well… fewer than there used to be. So long as the originals are still safely sealed away, of course."

That's the dialogue people refer to

[restive river]

Yeah there def is a difference, but it’s never said how the replicas are made

[stiff fable]

It's so they didn't have to go around and get rid of all the "splinter of the holy cross" and "nail from Jesus" around the world

Seriously there's enough of those to rebuild Noah's Ark

[restive river]

Which mentions nothing of them being cloned and just confirms that the original(s) are separate

[restive river]

Which heck we don’t even know if there’s multiple originals for sure or just one

[restive river]

This doesn’t answer what I’m asking

[humble sierra]

Multiple "originals" sorta implies there's ones that aren't original

[restive river]

We know replicas exist, we don’t know how they exist
We don’t know if they found a way to clone the finger(s) of a void entity (somehow) or if the finger just did that

[humble sierra]

So you have to ask what unorginal means

Ah yeah it's possible it cloned itself

[restive river]

There is a clear difference between the replicas and the original(s) but we don’t know what that is really?

[narrow pendant]

original should be the ones that were severed during albrechts first interaction

[humble sierra]

Which makes sense tbf, I feel like there was some Void related stuff in the Lost Islands that mentioned void things duplicating until they became too much to handle?

[restive river]

Wally can still speak through the replicas, he can move and interact with them
But also the Orokin cloning something that may or may not even be biological? Idk

[humble sierra]

Was it Kuva?

[restive river]

He only severed one but multiple fell

I’m just doubting the Orokin had any hand in there being multiple fingers, not through cloning anyway
We have no idea if Wally’s even actually biological in whatever human forms he takes on

The fingers just replicating on their own would make more sense too, cause Wally can still speak through, see through and move the replica fingers

[strange turtle]

She says fewer as long as the originals are still sealed away, so it sounds like they can do it on their own. That, or the same thing sealing them is what makes the copies

[restive river]

Iirc I think there’s something about holy relics replicating themselves? Not a Warframe thing but like
A real life thing that they may be pulling inspiration from

[narrow pendant]

hmm, guessing only originals can duplicate themselves?

[strange plinth]

yeah Captain brought it up earlier

[restive river]

Iirc we don’t even know for sure if there’s one or multiple originals

Tbh it could be there truly is only one original and they just say there’s multiple?
Idk Wally’s fingerbones are weird ):

[restive river]

Yeah, it’s by no means my theory

[humble sierra]

He's only missing one finger in other depictions

I think the Requiem wall mentioned more than one finger got cut off though?

[restive river]

He’s missing one
One was cut
It sounds like multiple fell
It’s maybe replicating itself
The replicas are still tied to Wally

[restive river]

I recall it being inconsistent

[strange plinth]

he's only missing the one in every depiction, but it mentions "digits" hitting the floor

[narrow pendant]

well, the form who's fingers were cut off was albrecht-wally, not the literal wall so it couldve been multiple fingers which are only represented by one on the big wall

[restive river]

So he gets his finger cut and in the moments before it falls they replicate and
Presumably get bigger

Why’s it sound like Wally’s fingers are a cancer
Mostly the growing bigger and replicating itself a lot

If thats even the case cause
We don’t know!

[humble sierra]

The pale reaching digits severed on the floor... studied with reverence, with greed.

Digits plural so it does sound like multiple fingers. I can't find the quote for them getting larger though, but I feel like that was somewhere?

[restive river]

The Orokin really saw some random fingers that fell out of the void with Albrecht, saw them grow and maybe replicate themselves and decided
Hm
Yes
Lets use this

[humble sierra]

Also just to be clear I'm not pulling up quotes to dispute anything or prove myself right and everyone else wrong

[restive river]

No quote on that, it’s literally an observation

[narrow pendant]

could only find a speculation why they grew is that over time they morph to match to wallys base form

[strange plinth]

broke into the void, came back with fingers and trauma

[restive river]

They were cut when he was Albrecht sized
They are not Albrecht sized fingers anymore

[humble sierra]

Lmao imagine if the reliquary drives aren't even the same fingers that were cut

[restive river]

If he even has a base form

[humble sierra]

They're fingers from an entirely different thing

[fast dew]

They aren't lmao, they're copies

[narrow pendant]

if there is one it for sure is the wall

[fast dew]

The originals' location aren't known

[humble sierra]

No I mean "imagine they're not even copies of the MITW's fingers and we've just been assuming stuff"

[strange plinth]

the earliest form he would've adopted was albrecht's, though

[restive river]

I don’t think Wally’s really limited to one specific form, considering he himself and basically his skin flakes are attacking the sanctum

[humble sierra]

Is the Grey Strain involved with these at all? Maybe the Orokin used that to clone them (if they cloned them )or something? And the fingers are still just Albrecht sized?

[fast dew]

Unlikely

The infestation hates wally

[narrow pendant]

yes, however the wall is the only form that doesnt seem to be a replica of anyone, so it chose to depict itself as it

[strange plinth]

Rell also called him "The Man In The Wall" for centuries, possible that he took the form from that

[restive river]

It’s more of a fear but yeah

[humble sierra]

My moron ahh forgot that detail

[fast dew]

Albrecht calling him that predates rell

For some reason

[narrow pendant]

because the wall form is what rell was holding back, its what he was seeing wally as

[restive river]

Iirc Albrecht called him that too, though I’m unsure if that entirely predates Rell due to when it was written

[humble sierra]

There's also the Vagabond he appears as in Duviri, who doesn't seem to be anyone in particular (and is also the only one missing a finger)

[strange plinth]

true, forgot about that

[restive river]

He has black eyes too

[fast dew]

Albrecht has the vagabond's mask

[restive river]

Albrecht called him that in his requiem logs which take place after the Zariman left iirc?

[fast dew]

True, but rell wasn't known to the rest of the world outside of the red veil, wasn't he?

[restive river]

I’m not saying Rell influenced Albrecht, I’m saying they may have both called him that entirely separately at separate instances

[fast dew]

And how Albrecht says it, sounds like he saw it personally. "That man, trapped in the wall." Or whatever

[narrow pendant]

albrecht seems to say it to describe him in his requiems though, while rell just uses it as a name

[strange turtle]

Albrecht called him “That man, trapped in the wall” but didn’t seem to actually log it down as a term for him since the name is acknowledged as specifically being Rell’s term in the Report

[restive river]

If Albrecht thought him to be a man in the wall before the Zariman then that influence may have been enough for him to show up as that for Rell, which causes Rell to call him it

[fast dew]

WAIT

Okay hold on

[humble sierra]

There's also drawings all over the Zariman of his "trapped in the wall" form

[restive river]

There’s no way he could have known Rell called him that at that time so it’s separate instances of the same name

[strange turtle]

That bit where its like “The Indifference and Wally appear to be the same entity”, something along those lines

[fast dew]

Albrecht taught Thrax of "the wall" and the things beyond it

[restive river]

True!

[fast dew]

Is this like. The wall of lohk being the door to the void, being "the wall" or is Albrecht actually meaning wally

[restive river]

He calls him “that man trapped in that wall” iirc

[fast dew]

No like. Thrax talks about the wall

[restive river]

if Albrecht thought that of him before the Zariman it could be Wally took heavy inspiration or influence

[strange plinth]

two exact lines from the operator report, just for reference
Rell had voluntarily assumed the duty of keeping the Origin System safe from a Void-based entity referred to as 'The Man In The Wall'.
'The Man In The Wall' is identical with the entity known to us as 'The Indifference'.

[fast dew]

Which is taught to him by the scholar

[humble sierra]

The Wall of Lohk is the little barrier between the Void and Reality, right?

[fast dew]

"Beyond the wall of lohk" is the book Albrecht wrote, so probably

Brother has a autobiography

Idk it sounds like an autobiography

[fast dew]

Wait no thats the Albrecht membrane i think

[narrow pendant]

specifically the one in the netralisc that albrecht used

the door

[stiff beacon]

the terms journal btw

in this instance

[fast dew]

If this was in reference to the notes, but this is a published book used in schooling settings

Journals can be used, yes

[restive river]

Journal turned autobio

[fast dew]

But it seems more formal

[restive river]

We can’t even read it ):

It could be full of him losin it lol

[fast dew]

I wish we could

I want to understand him more

[restive river]

He didnt tell anyone about Wally so we know that info wouldn’t be in a published book

[humble sierra]

Yeah the term is a literary journal

[fast dew]

ACTUALLY COULD THAT BE WHERE RELL PICKED UP THE MAN IN THE WALL??? BCS LIKE. ITS THE MAN IN THE VOID???

[restive river]

Again it could literally just be he perceived him as that, Wally ran with it or was influenced by it, Rell sees him as that, coins the term fully

[restive river]

He calls him that cause he sees him for what he truly is iirc

[narrow pendant]

its more likely that rell was seing the same wall we saw at the end of the new war

[restive river]

Likely this yeah

[narrow pendant]

that it is its base form its assuming, maybe not original but its main form for now

[fast dew]

Yeah but why would Albrecht be saying the same thing? He never saw wally after the incident, its like.

[restive river]

Unfortunately we never see that part in the Rell comic

[restive river]

Albrecht’s “that man trapped in that wall” or whatever he said isn’t being used as a name, it’s to describe what he was to him
A man in the wall between reality and the void

Rell saw Wally for what he was and did use it as a name, not a descriptor

[narrow pendant]

he describes the entity as the man trapped in the wall of lohk bc when he encountered him he left him behind the door, "sealing him" inside the wall. it could be that this action caused wally to assume the man in the wall form bc that action, the severing of his hingers, caused him to be bound and limit his power

[restive river]

It’s not impossible for two people to come to similar conclusions about the same entity, especially if one heavily influenced said entity

[humble sierra]

I think the Man in the Wall is the closest thing he has to a true form but we can't just shoot it or something because it's not merely a physical form

[restive river]

Conceptual embodiment go brrr

[narrow pendant]

meanwhile rell (maybe partly due to his autism) names wally after the most literal thing you could describe it as, for lack of a better word

[fast dew]

Did his description of the wall (wall of lohk) influence Rell's perception of the man in the wall (fear of the "wall"), then influencing the body wally takes on?

[restive river]

No, I’m saying his description influenced Wally which is why Rell saw what he saw

[strange plinth]

'that sure is a Man In The Wall' - Rell /s

[narrow pendant]

i believe wally became the wall shortly after albrecht cut off its fingers

[restive river]

Albrecht has no influence over Rell, nor does Albrecht tell anyone about Wally, let alone put it in a published book.

[fast dew]

The issue is Albrecht calling him that 😭 Albrecht self-admittedly never saw wally after

[restive river]

How is that an issue

[fast dew]

Okay so how would a person, who have only seen wally as himself, call him something he had never seen?

[restive river]

Albrecht doesn’t need to see Wally to influence him, he influenced him the first time they met

[narrow pendant]

albrecht also says that no orokin saw the entity that was a duplicate of himself, while it still could be that he didnt know at the time that wally appears to others as their copies usually, like it happened to yonta

[strange plinth]

i don't think its a big jump for albrecht to call the guy he trapped in the wall of lohk a man trapped in the wall

[fast dew]

Maybe i aint explaining correctly

[restive river]

You’re confusing Albrecht’s descriptor for what Rell saw and Wally’s Wall form

[restive river]

Is that not
Literally what he does

[restive river]

Not just Orokin, nobody ever saw him as far as he knew

Nobody saw Wally on all those void expeditions

[narrow pendant]

wally really wants him to think hes schizo

[restive river]

The only other known individuals who saw him during the Orokin Era were
Us
Rell
Yonta

Later only Baro and probably Neci saw him as themselves too
We don’t know what Loid, the Cavia or Lotus saw

Doesn’t help mom “repressed” seeing a giant wall man asap, tbf she had to figure out which personality would take charge

[narrow pendant]

it was a duplicate of albrecht

not wall-wally

[restive river]

?

[strange plinth]

is it just the albrecht dream that yonta saw or am i forgetting something

[narrow pendant]

ohhh i misunderstood, i though you ment mother lmao

[restive river]

Oh no sorry lol

[narrow pendant]

not lotus

[fast dew]

Okay so

Rell reads the autobiography/journal thing of Albrecht's documenting whats beyond the wall
Rell fears what the "wall" Albrecht mentions (that being the wall of lohk, not wally)
We get into the void, Rell's fear of the wall of Lohk influences Wally's form that torments him (inline with wally)

And like. Albrecht only calls wally "that man, trapped in the wall" bcs he's referring to how wally is "trapped" behind the wall of lohk (not wally, important difference)

[celest needle]

Why was the man in the wall so interested with Baro?

Enough to strike a deal of his own with him

[restive river]

Bro goes into the void a lot, I’d eventually be like “what’s this weird bug who keeps coming and going every week doing” too

[fast dew]

I mean, gotta identify it as the same bug first

[narrow pendant]

wasnt rell like, barely showing emotions during the zariman incident which is partly also why he was able to hold him back

[fast dew]

Thats the autism buddy, we can't show emotions well in general 😭

[restive river]

This relies on Rell reading the book and interpreting things that way, it’s been a bit but I don’t believe that really matches up with Rell’s actions

[restive river]

He’s pretty identifiable tbh

[narrow pendant]

i dont think rell was innerly scared either tbh, since thats kinda what it seems to be the reason he could hold wally back to be

[fast dew]

I mean, its recommended reading in the school, its entirely possible the class as a whole had to read it

[restive river]

Yeah he wasn’t really scared, he kinda just got down to business lol

“Oh there’s a big wall guy? Aight ik what to do”

[celest needle]

Neurodivergent kid holds back Wally and joins a fanatic cult

[fast dew]

-# remember chat autistic folk might not show that emotion in the same way, he could've just chosen the fawn action over the flight/freeze/fight options

[strange plinth]

"Touching is too much noise, anyway. I have something to do... Mmm... someone to figure out." from the last page of the comic

[fast dew]

Pulling out shit i learned in therapy

Where's my books hold on

[restive river]

Rell: "Touching is too much noise, anyway. I have something to do… mmm… someone to figure out."

[fast dew]

Hes so real for that tho

[restive river]

Oh lmao

Are you on the archives too?

[fast dew]

I get looked at weird for talking about how tastes and tactile feelings have noise and how some are bad

"Food doesn't have noise" YES IT DOES

[strange plinth]

have the wiki open atm lol
sometimes an easier search

[celest needle]

I mean, you ever eaten bread

that barely has noise

[fast dew]

Depends on the bread

Hard breads are like static

Unfun noise

[woven coyote]

Not to mention they are assuming the contents of said book

[restive river]

That too yes

[celest needle]

soft bread

[restive river]

I could’ve sworn something talks about why Rell called him that but I’m not finding it

[fast dew]

Soft bread doesn't have a loud noise, yk the sound something really viscous makes when you like. Drop it accidentally? Thats the noise

[woven coyote]

Not too many places to look
Either the comic or the quest

[fast dew]

Ehhh

[celest needle]

Yeah but just don't drop it and there isn't any noise

[woven coyote]

Maybe sanctum pc cant remember

[restive river]

I think I’m just not finding the exact wording I thought

[fast dew]

Unfortunately i have a really good imagination, i can hear it now and im in bed far away from anything that could make that sound

[restive river]

Checked that, it doesn’t give too much lol

[celest needle]

okay but soft bread doesn't make any noise

what noise are you imagining

[fast dew]

It does to me

Its not literal noise

This is why its hard to explain it 😭

[restive river]

Oh this is fun

Ordis: "Operator, what was that… thing? Lotus, can you explain this? Lotus?!"

Lotus: "Transference energy, fractured. It was so… cold, indifferent, inhuman. If Rell was Tenno, what did he become without Margulis?"

FOUND IT!

Palladino: "But it's… not. This isn't some kind of deep pressure bends as Margulis suspected. Rell saw what it was, truly. An entity, indifferent, old as stars."

He saw what it was, truly
A Man in a Wall

Palladino: "The Man in the Wall! That is what he called it. Hush… try to follow his voice!"

[fast dew]

Love that they call it as old as the stars itself and yet then goes on to say its not as old as the stars

[restive river]

I still think he’s as old as stars in the same way all matter and the void is

[strange plinth]

foreshadowing is a literary device-

[restive river]

The stuff we’re made of is really old

[restive river]

We have Palladino saying it’s indifferent too lol

[fast dew]

Such a backwards way but i see it lol

[restive river]

They def knew what he was back then, this arc is a long time coming

[restive river]

We’re all as old as stars, buddy

One with the universe n all that

[fast dew]

Its so interesting that he is always called indifferent but isn't indifferent to anything but the effects of his own actions

[humble sierra]

Yeah there's a new star just made or something, Wally's actually 6 days old

[restive river]

LOL

Hey they said stars!
There were two stars born when he happened

[humble sierra]

He's called Indifference because that's the effect he has on people, he hollows them out and makes them feel like nothing

[restive river]

Kinda analogous to entropy too iirc, which he def represents

Entropy with a temper tantrum

[humble sierra]

He himself doesn't seem indifferent in the slightest

He's shown to be grinning, mocking, laughing, or enraged

[woven coyote]

I mean considering how time passed in the void for drifter
And considering wally's isleweaver fragmented lines adn temporal dust description

I think he was a lot more active in places we couldnt see

[fast dew]

Which is why its so misleading for him to be referred to as indifferent lmao

[fast dew]

because he isn't

[humble sierra]

There's not a single time that he's actually "neutral" I think

[fast dew]

I think its like a child mimicking an adult's actions without understanding why they're doing it

[restive river]

Can you grab the list of all his names? @woven coyote

[strange plinth]

it seems like "indifference" is more of what he does than what he is, degrading relationships n all that

[restive river]

Cause he’s got
A lot

[fast dew]

I can name a few

I think

The lidless eye is my favourite

[restive river]

Smiling One
Lidless Eye
The Man in the Wall
The Indifference
The Murmur

[fast dew]

Because wally in his wall form doesn't have eyes

[humble sierra]

Yeah, like I said, indifference is how he makes people feel like nothing

[fast dew]

That which bares no name also goes hard

[humble sierra]

In the 1999 ARG, is he called Anansi too?

[restive river]

“That which bears no name” checks wiki dangit

[restive river]

Unknown, Anansi is just a password

He very well could have Anansi as a name but Anansi could just be referring to like
The arg story as that password leads to the credits which are in a spiderweb (Anansi is a spider (this is a gross simplification))

And, no idea if this was on purpose but a spider related character is in the credits
No clue if that was the person’s name or if its a reference, probably both

[strange plinth]

i mean, its a link to the "along came a spider" fragments in a way

[fast dew]

Honestly it sounds like an ayatan sculpture name lol

[restive river]

It is ye

[woven coyote]

Arg led to russalka and russalkas story talks about a spider(wally) offering her stuff

[restive river]

Anansi being a future name or form he takes would he
So cool

[restive river]

True!

[humble sierra]

And Lettie refers to her darker thoughts as "the spiders"

[strange plinth]

oh she does. hm.

[restive river]

If the ARG is what lead Wally to her then “along comes a spider” is what happened next

Also Anansi is essentially a story god

I would personally kill for a conceptually embodied planet or land or anything from Wally, his own original story that we have to fight through

[humble sierra]

From my little understanding of (West?) African mythology, Anansi is aligned with mortals and often tricks other gods?

He's a trickster god, that much I know

[restive river]

He is

I want to say Anansi could work as a name for Wally but I gotta read up on them

[fast dew]

Albrecht's knowledge on old world stuff is always interesting

[humble sierra]

But that's probably not really a comparison they want to draw to Wally

[fast dew]

Obviously helps that he can just time travel, but it is nice

[restive river]

Tbh if anything I’d love a Warframe spawned from the void or Wally called Anansi

[humble sierra]

I'm curious if Roathe teaches the other in the Triad how to use the KIM

[restive river]

But we already have a spider frame so they’d need to differentiate a good bit from that aspect of Anansi

[strange plinth]

an expansion on the Great Indifference maybe
seems like the closest thing

[humble sierra]

Also curious as to where they keep their KIM

[fast dew]

Sanctum

Its the sanctum one

[woven coyote]

And a book frame

[humble sierra]

Do they step out of the portal?

[fast dew]

Which makes me kinda annoyed

[restive river]

They walk past Loid and log on-line

[fast dew]

Tf is the point of exiling Roathe if he can just leave?

[restive river]

That too yeah, it likely makes more sense for Anansi to be a character or a name for Wally rather than the name and theme of a frame

[strange plinth]

aghh koumei would've worked so well for a spider instead of a puppet
weaving fate, strings, etc.
i'm not against a puppet-themed frame its just a weird pairing

[restive river]

He likely can’t just leave
My guess is Lyon and Marie hold him back, for one
And second I doubt the portal was accessible on either end til Devil’s Triad occurs

[humble sierra]

"Excusez moi, Loid, just gotta DM my girlfriend sil vous plait"

[restive river]

Agreed!

[woven coyote]

With that trickster of gods alias it could also be an codename for albrecht considering he's trying to trick wally

[restive river]

I had her loadout called Anansi til Oraxia came out lmao

[woven coyote]

Poor scammei

[fast dew]

Loid looking at the random ass orokin Albrecht sealed away just appears one day

[restive river]

That’d be cool

It’s a shame Anansi just
Hasn’t come up at all since being a password for credits :p

[strange plinth]

someone make a spider themed tennogen skin for koumei, i beg

[woven coyote]

Yup

[strange turtle]

Loid walks back after getting tea just to get jumpscared by Roathe waiting for his turn on the computer

[humble sierra]

I'm still a firm believer in Roathe being Albrecht's Beard (publicly dating Roathe because his relationship with Loid would be forbidden)

[restive river]

Wait
that’s a good theory

[fast dew]

Here i am thinking Roathe is Albrecht's abandoned kid

[restive river]

But why does he hate him?

[humble sierra]

Roathe caught actual feelings

[fast dew]

Resentment of a forced partner isn't new

[humble sierra]

Toxic Yaoi

[restive river]

“And here’s my stupid devilframe son that I hate”

[strange plinth]

maybe. Albrecht supposedly really doesn't like Roathe. which either completely lines up or ruins the idea

[humble sierra]

Remember who the creative director is guys

[restive river]

):

[humble sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-rebecca-ford-rebbford-fridge-jumpscare-gif-15067573005803749120

[fast dew]

As funny as it could be, i honestly think that Albrecht didn't gaf about public appearances

[humble sierra]

Yeah plus he had a wife at some point

[fast dew]

We kinda knew they already saw him as insane

Insane or stupid and unworthy

[humble sierra]

Plus I feel like people probably wouldn't want to date Roathe if he had dated Albrecht

[restive river]

Wasn’t he seen as kinda nothing, then revered then insane?

[fast dew]

Mhm

[stiff beacon]

i mean makes some sense unless he's like a rogue executor

[restive river]

You have a Loid lover in chat right now lol

That’s not stopping anyone

[fast dew]

:)

Erm achtually

[humble sierra]

Oh but Roathe is also a BlueOrokin

[fast dew]

Id rather just watch them then do anything

[humble sierra]

Like he's 70% red flag

[restive river]

As opposed to a RedOrokin

[woven coyote]

Blookin

[restive river]

[humble sierra]

I'm curious to see if he has any actual redeeming traits

[stiff beacon]

he also doesnt have the glowing eyes

[fast dew]

I hope he doesn't

[humble sierra]

That's probably because of customization more than anything

[restive river]

Lyon and Marie holding us back from killing him

[fast dew]

Even Albrecht had those

Roathe feels like a fake orokin ngl

Imagine actually

Imagine if he was a stand in

[restive river]

I hate when the billionaire imprisons and genetically modifies another billionaire and locks them in their private dungeon

[fast dew]

Would align with the title

[fast dew]

That sounds like some 50 shades shit

[restive river]

I think he’s real
Mostly cause
They keep referring to him as their first Orokin protoframe

[humble sierra]

So again, they were lovers?

[restive river]

Which the fact they keep saying first is concerning!

[fast dew]

Nah, Albrecht can't hold down a person in general

[humble sierra]

Well he's the first, but he might be the last too

[fast dew]

ALBRECHT PROOT CONFIRMED-

[restive river]

That might mean that there’s not only more but Albrecht somehow got away with helminthing more

[restive river]

He could be

[fast dew]

Like a serial killer

[humble sierra]

I think it's just them advertising how he's unique

While also leaving the door open for more

[restive river]

I’ll only accept Albrecht Protoframe if he fully transforms and he loses his free will entirely

[strange plinth]

nihil 2

[restive river]

Did you say
Unique?
Wally wants a chat

[fast dew]

... chat maybe thats why

[strange plinth]

or ig nihil would be albrecht 2

[woven coyote]

Umbra sequence it so we finally see what happened that day

[restive river]

Probably this, they love their potential doors

[restive river]

Slapping an Umbra Bolt into Albrecht >:)

[fast dew]

I think the worst part of that for me would Loid would have to come to terms with Albrecht never being Albrecht again

[restive river]

I hope we get transference bolt lore
Like
What they actually do, if they’re installed automatically in the foundry, what they look like, etc etc

[woven coyote]

Also margulis

[restive river]

Small price to pay for making Albrecht pay for all his crimes

[fast dew]

I think Albrecht is just gonna die

[restive river]

Sorry Loid
Your boyfriend is in fact a horrible person and he deserves whats coming

[fast dew]

Ehhh

[restive river]

He does

He’s
Factually a terrible human being and deserves whatever is coming for him

I don’t need to go over his crimes for you to know he’s terrible :p

Especially since I know you know what they are

[fast dew]

Albrecht is only as horrible as he is if you ignore the actions he has in 1999 have no real affect (that being killing them) and that lowkey in the grand scheme of things

Its kinda minor 😭 like compared to the shit we've done even as tenno, it feels so minor. Oh no.. Albrecht turned people into protoframes... but let's ignore that we've killed thousands of people who had no choice in the way they were born...

Oh no, Albrecht experimented on animals. Like... most scientists do

[restive river]

Ahem.
Continuity.

[stiff beacon]

dudes making the mother of all omelettes, can't fret over every egg

[restive river]

Also
Why are we ignoring his actions in 1999?
Just cause that doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things doesn’t mean his actions weren’t terrible?

[fast dew]

Oh no

Something normalised and done without malicious intent

[restive river]

That’s like saying “ah nah murder’s fine cause we’ll all be dust anyway!”

[fast dew]

Its either he does that or we all die 😭

[restive river]

It is
Literally murder for the sake of extending one’s own life, it’s a purely selfish action.

[restive river]

Not really??
We still don’t know why he made the protos.

[fast dew]

Ehhh

[restive river]

It’s coincidental that they turned out to be the key for the vessels which have done
Almost nothing so far?

[restive river]

No, not eh
We don’t know why he made them.

[fast dew]

ehhh

[restive river]

We have zero idea why he even went to 1999 let alone any 99s

He’s putting everyone and everything at risk or just running away from them in an attempt to stop Wally

[strange plinth]

the "creature of habit" arriving in yet another 99 to make a few protoframes and leave

[restive river]

“For the greater good” stops working pretty quickly.

Albrecht is factually not a good person, could he be? Yeah, same as any others
Will he be? Doubtful.

[fast dew]

Except its risk (they might not) or that they absolutely will.

[restive river]

Oh but he feels guilty for murdering all those animals! That means he’s okay!

[fast dew]

Oh for hells sake.

[restive river]

Albrecht is horrible person doing the best he can to stop a larger threat by doing more horrible things
His actions don’t go away cause it’s all to stop Wally

[fast dew]

Are you gonna hate on the vaccine creators because they intentionally killed animals to study the effects?

As nice as it could be, there is no progress without some death. Every significant change of humanity has required death and sacrifice.

[restive river]

Ok, you’re missing the point
He’s not a bad person cause he killed mountains of animals, that’s just one item on the list of his crimes

[fast dew]

And lowkey

Yeah, him feeling bad for the shit he does, does make him significantly better than most.

[restive river]

Also yes
I can hate someone for doing something terrible for a good effect
Which btw, the scientists studying the vaccines didn’t let loose the illness they’re trying to stop (accidentally or not)

[fast dew]

... Albrecht didn't do that???

[restive river]

The bar is literally 6 feet under for the Orokin

[fast dew]

What???

[restive river]

Wally

[fast dew]

OH.

[strange plinth]

better? somewhat. redeemed? no

[restive river]

[stiff fable]

Oh lol I thought you meant the technocyte

[restive river]

No lol

[stiff fable]

Because he DID spread it

[fast dew]

Same kekw

[restive river]

He did

[stiff fable]

Just wasn't the initial source

[restive river]

Also again
No idea why he made the protos

Ruined their lives for
Fun????

[fast dew]

Ehh. Spread it by a normal side effect to vaccines

[restive river]

Not all of them were for the Drifter to learn love

[stiff fable]

but deliberately

[fast dew]

Uh

[stiff fable]

It's a KIM convo

[fast dew]

.. from a biased person.

[stiff fable]

He sent the Hex around after making sure they were carriers

[restive river]

Isn’t Lettie a medical professional?

[stiff fable]

No it's pretty clear that was deliberate on Entrati's part

[restive river]

Everywhere Albrecht goes nothing good really follows

[fast dew]

Yeah, she should know vaccines can cause asymptomatic issues, along with that maybe you should still check yourself even if you don't present symptoms

[restive river]

The best thing he ever did was leave Loid to try and ensure his safety

[lean garden]

vaccines can cause a full strength asymptomatic spread?

[fast dew]

Tfw im asymptomatic to covid and know to test myself before visiting my immune compromised mates

[stiff fable]

In perfect fairness to Albrecht, it's very possible that making the Hex hate him is what keeps them as protoframes instead of going full Warframe

[stiff fable]

the problem is that "symptomatic" infestation is "turning into a flesh eating monster"

[restive river]

I don’t think the others hate him, but they all have their own drives that should help out with that
Also ofc they have us, which apparently helps a lot

[stiff fable]

Oh no they definitely hate him lol

[restive river]

Lyon and Marie don’t seem to?

[fast dew]

I mean

If everyone got the vaccine
How much of an issue would it be if it makes them asymptomatic

[celest needle]

To be fair without him the Drifter would have no character outside of duviri/j

[restive river]

They might be fine due to their drive of faith tho

[stiff fable]

We're not talking about them tho'

Yes that

[restive river]

I’m specifically mentioning the other protos, not the Hex

[stiff fable]

Purpose, something to hold to

[stiff fable]

the issue is that Entrati told them they were cured

[restive river]

True but that’s not really a point for him and more so for the writers lol

[fast dew]

Also, yes, some can, some vaccines can also just infect you anyways (these are not as common, but there was a polio vaccine that did this)

[stiff fable]

And that they were delivering more cures

Instead of "spreading infested cowpox that still turns you into techrot but sneakily"

[restive river]

Albrecht “I will be nice and not lie”
Albrecht in 1999:

[lean garden]

I mean, that is how some vaccines work, the whole "weakened form of the virus" bit

[fast dew]

Oh no this one in particular was an active variant lol

[stiff fable]

we need an Albrecht reaction face for this that isn't Steve Soon

[celest needle]

I know its a joke

But like, how hasn't Albrecht died. I know he is an Orokin and stuff but this manis walking around with barely any protection outside of smarts.

[strange turtle]

I mean
Albrecht could’ve not realised either
Like even the actual medical girl didn’t realise, Albrecht comes from the caste that uses super healers instead of normal medical treatment

[restive river]

Lmao yeah

[fast dew]

Hold on i might have one

[lean garden]

but to make you an asymptomatic carrier shouldnt be a thing vaccines do

[lean garden]

thats an attenuated version no?

heehee attenuation

[fast dew]

Where's my Albrecht memes

[stiff fable]

Albrecht was already looping in 1999

[restive river]

At least for 1999 he likely had something in place as well as Kalymos eating any and all infested that would get too close

[stiff fable]

he deffo knew

[restive river]

He would’ve given them the “cures” in 98 though, no?

Before the loop
Since
They’re already protos by 1999, still getting used to their new powers

[stiff fable]

We don't know how long Albrecht's initial loop was

Only that at some point it narrowed

[restive river]

At least new years

[stiff fable]

right

[restive river]

We don’t even know how or why he made it iirc

[fast dew]

I got these (i drew two of them)

[stiff fable]

Also the man made more than one trip to the 1990s, and presumably had ways to observe it

ADIOS slays me well done

[restive river]

We do know there’s a barrier of some kind between 1999 and prior years but that’s with the established year long loop that Drifter now has control over

[stiff fable]

right

[fast dew]

I DROPPED MY LAPROP

[stiff fable]

There's a WALL mmhmm yes there is, and I bet there's a man in that wall too

[fast dew]

I was looking for more of my Albrecht memes

[restive river]

Kaya hasn’t spotted one yet but give her some time, she’ll find em

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/aell46s-pennywise-payaso-gif-18516414

There he is!!

[restive river]

Anyway
Albrecht’s not a good person

[fast dew]

He isn't a bad person, but he isn't a good person

[stiff fable]

He's aggressively Orokin

[restive river]

No he’s
He’s a bad person

[fast dew]

Nah

[restive river]

Your bias is showing

[fast dew]

Animals can't love bad people imo

[stiff fable]

They absolutely can

[fast dew]

Eh

[stiff fable]

I have horror stories

[restive river]

Yeah they absolutely can what

He’s nice to his cat, wow
He still sucks??

Also we have 3 animals that do not love him
If we’re going by that then Kalymos is heavily outweighed lol

[fast dew]

He aint a bad person, not to me. He's doing what he needs to.

[stiff fable]

No, that's the crazy part, he's offloading that part onto the Drifter

[restive river]

Cause he needed to spread the techrot and infect some random people in different 99s mhm yeah

[restive river]

He couldn’t even kill Neci lmao

[stiff fable]

Wally is countered by love, understanding, hope and idealism

[fast dew]

Also

Would it shock yall that i don't like Albrecht

[stiff fable]

And he sets up a testing ground for the Drifter to learn to embody these virtues

Instead of doing it himself,

AND by playing an absolute bastard

[restive river]

Purposefully or not it def turned out that way

He could have came up with that being the plan along the way tbh, we still don’t know why he protos people lol

[fast dew]

Which is bull btw.

Can kill a huge amount of corpus and grineer

Can't kill a known fascist

[stiff fable]

It is deliberate is the evil part, he's the one who lectures the Drifter about how empathy is strength at the end of Hex Finale

After he puts a cap in Amir to make sure you watch him die in the bad timeline

[fast dew]

Outside of wally, NECI IS STILL RUNNING A FASCIST CULT 😭

[restive river]

Character assassination for the Drifter tbh
Just killed an untold amount of Scaldra
Can’t kill the only one that matters

[fast dew]

... that is not why he did that

[stiff fable]

It actually is!

He's making a POINT

[fast dew]

He... he killed amir because he was going to die anyways. what point is needed if they're going to be obliterated by the reactor anyways?

[restive river]

He makes the Drifter believe the Hex were essentially tools from his perspective, a trick so they’d want to fight for and save them ig

[strange plinth]

why kill him if he's going to be dead?

[fast dew]

Mercy kill i aint gonna lie

[stiff fable]

Because the Drifter can only BEGIN AGAIN if they still has an arm eg before the reactor

[fast dew]

... no

No, the loop still exists

[strange turtle]

I mean idk about you I’d rather die from a gunshot than a reactor meltdown

[stiff fable]

If Amir's alive, the Drifter's going to try helping him

[fast dew]

We know it still exists

[stiff fable]

No, it doesn't, because WALLY IS IN CONTROL

[fast dew]

No???

[restive river]

I can not see him mercy killing anyone unless he cares for them lol

[stiff fable]

Wally seizes control at the end of The Hex

[fast dew]

The reactor kicked wally out

[pale cedar]

No he doesn’t

[fast dew]

???

[stiff fable]

Sorry, midway through

[fast dew]

Its just void tongue, something Albrecht uses

[restive river]

Wally literally has control of the loop for the majority of the quest, when the Drifter is shot and slams their hand they gain control back

[restive river]

Radiation go brrr

[fast dew]

LITERALLY

[stiff fable]

If Albrecht hadn't forced the issue, the Drifter wouldn't have seized control

[fast dew]

???

[stiff fable]

And who would have controlled the loop then?

[restive river]

Albrecht is forcing Drifter to care about the Hex, to save them so they can learn to love

[stiff fable]

Wally is banished but is still in control

Just because his physical avatar is no longer present doesn't mean his influence is gone

[fast dew]

I think drifter would've still done it in response to Arthur

[restive river]

Albrecht makes it sound like he’s just gonna dip to Tau with Drifter but nah
Shoots em instead

[fast dew]

Yk, the fella dying across the other side of the glass

[fast dew]

Is that not exactly why wally was kicked out

[stiff fable]

Nope

Or, well, yes, but it's not enough

Like, Wally's still metaphysically present in 1999

[restive river]

by Albrecht shooting Amir it shows to Drifter how Albrecht actually cares for the Hex, or at least that’s the ploy

[stiff fable]

The rapping you can hear during the radio, basically all of Temporal Archemedia

[restive river]

Which gets Drifter to go “nuh uh”, Albrecht shoots them, Drifter gains control, loop is extended
Drifter saves Hex, woah that was Albrecht’s plan, love

[stiff fable]

But he doesn't have the loop

[restive river]

Isn’t TA more so about repairing the damage that the loop causes by existing?

[fast dew]

I also wanna say this, this aint directed at yall

But ive had to fight to explain that Albrecht does have trauma because apparently almost dying isn't traumatic enough lol

[restive river]

Or is it a bit of both alongside ensuring specific events

Oh he super does

[humble sierra]

Bruh he's literally traumatized, that's like the basis for everything he does

[fast dew]

RIGHT

[restive river]

He changed up his whole everything due to Wally, man is traumatized

[humble sierra]

The guy rejected immortality because of that encounter

[fast dew]

God some people are conceited

[stiff fable]

Yeah but the Murmur modifier and the "dead Scaldra walking around" exterminate mission

[restive river]

Ooo, true yeah

[stiff fable]

Hurt people hurt people

[humble sierra]

I was LITERALLY TYPING THAT RAAAAH

[restive river]

The Tenno hurting those who hurt people (they were hurt)

[fast dew]

I think Albrecht running constantly is a coping mechanism but apparently not

[restive river]

Sometimes it may be, sometimes not so much

[stiff fable]

Anyway, Albrecht knows he could help the Hex himself and instead hurts them directly so the Drifter can

.......you know I just thought of something truly terrible

[humble sierra]

I guess they've seen that "Dump it" image too many times and think that he's a badass who mogs on feelings and the stock market

[restive river]

His daughter, loid, all that? Yeah
But him running from 1999 was not a coping mechanism but the next step in the plan

[stiff fable]

Like, fanfiction gold concept material

[fast dew]

He can't have connections cuz it'll hurt them, so he leaves but that hurts them

[fast dew]

Go, im the fanfic fella here

[stiff fable]

Albrecht is replaying the Void arc

[fast dew]

Tell me

[humble sierra]

Skipping dialogue and running to the next encounter

[fast dew]

Drawing shit for another fanfic writer because im just that based

[fast dew]

Not a uncommon issue.

[stiff fable]

He DID all the nice things where he saved the Hex and connected with his family and helped the Operator and made amends with the Cavia and and and

[restive river]

I’m gonna trap Albrecht in a bootstrap style time loop where he endlessly causes and destroys himself when this is all over >:)

[stiff fable]

And Wally won

[fast dew]

Oop

Thats actual peak cinema

[stiff fable]

So he's cheating even harder and reliving everything to make the Drifter into the hero of the story

[restive river]

Only issue being if Wally wins he gets the finger which might make that a mute point

But maybe he can win without it idk

[fast dew]

Wally wins if Albrecht dies

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/itadori-jujutsu-kaisen-gif-22665956

[fast dew]

WAIT

[restive river]

LMAO

[strange turtle]

I was just thinking that

[restive river]

albrecht ate a finger and thats why he’s running
Totally

[fast dew]

Okay random doom thing i can relate here

[stiff fable]

I genuinely wrote that whole bit just to post this

But yeah fanfiction gold

[restive river]

That finger is like
Def a chekov’s gun, right? Like I’m not crazy, he’s gonna get that finger

[stiff fable]

Oh absolutely

[restive river]

Ok good I’m not insane lmao

[stiff fable]

Bet you money we get it as a decoration at the end of the arc

[strange plinth]

chekov's finger gun

[pale cedar]

2 things can be true

[restive river]

Ooooo
We can tap on it like Nihil to get him to say stuff

[stiff fable]

hahahaha

[restive river]

You’re right

[stiff fable]

wait, what if we put the finger on the chair

[restive river]

https://tenor.com/view/aradia-finger-guns-point-pointing-gif-8632467

[fast dew]

Homestuck flashbang

[restive river]

I don’t like the visual

I can’t even say what I’m thinking cause its terrible

And like
Really obvious

[fast dew]

Eheheh

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/thumb-wars-moon-star-wars-star-wars-meme-thumb-wars-meme-gif-6047008750844925836

[fast dew]

I got it. Smart thomas

[restive river]

(You’d probably like her btw)

[fast dew]

I uh

Don't like homestuck. I find it insufferable.

[restive river]

It’s the fandom that’s insufferable

[fast dew]

Most fans i know have ruined it for me

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/maomao-disgusting-gif-9830804619014439678

[fast dew]

Ive been in some horrid fandoms, but that one is

[restive river]

Sounds about right

[fast dew]

Whew. Not something ima engage in

[restive river]

Oh no its terrible

The comic itself? Actually pretty good

The fandom? No. Just. No.

[stiff fable]

Never get interested in anything popular, the fandom is always awful

[restive river]

Some pieces of media are best enjoyed without a fandom
Homestuck is the biggest one

[fast dew]

I as a doom fandom representative, am possibly the best you'll see. Doom from the start was cursed with a certain incident with two teenagers, so its like. If homestuck's fandom beats that, then something is wrong

[strange turtle]

Sometimes I see fanart and as someone who has only seen the first couple pages it feels like looking at the HRT fanart

[humble sierra]

Except for this small game called Warframe, I hear that one's pretty cool. Just don't play Limbo in public lobbies

[restive river]

Again, the comic itself is good
Its just the fandom thats terrible

[fast dew]

... hormone replacement therapy..?

[strange turtle]

Horse Race Test

[restive river]

I get kinda scared that Warframe will get too big and the fandom will be terrible ):

[fast dew]

Helminth replacement therapy, what Albrecht thought HRT was

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-race-test-jovial-jovial-merryment-umamusume-gif-13995251808686427650

[restive river]

Same difference

[stiff fable]

Once Destiny 2 dies, Warframe's clock starts ticking

[restive river]

Yuri…

[stiff fable]

Joking but at the same time....

[fast dew]

Id get Albrecht to do my T shots

[restive river]

Aren’t they doing a destiny 3 lol

[stiff fable]

Marathon?

[stiff beacon]

no

[stiff fable]

last I heard the plan was to unvault the removed content and try for a hail mary

[restive river]

Careful, he’ll slip in some techrot with a hint of helminth without telling you

[humble sierra]

D2 is doing their time travel to the 1990s arc right now

[fast dew]

And i know it will be testosterone as i actually will bring it myself

Because.. yeah i bring the testosterone from the pharmacy

[restive river]

Idk anything about destiny except a guy about shapes has a smoke head and it’s compared to Warframe for no reason other than sci fi and looter shooter lol

[stiff fable]

D1 and Warframe were contemporaries

[celest needle]

Will there be romance and boy band music?

[fast dew]

Can't wait to get a beard and make it like Loid's. I think it could be peak.

[restive river]

I know WF did the loading screen ship thing first

[humble sierra]

And the voice cast. For whatever reason people hate Peter Dinklage for sounding robotic when voicing a robot

[stiff fable]

Far future ruined solar system with a hypertech history

[pale cedar]

People are assuming they are because they said “the future of Destiny” not “the future of Destiny 2”

[restive river]

Oh pfft

[stiff fable]

The difference is that the lore in Destiny 1 was obscure because they ran out of time to implement a story