lore-discussion

[heady quest]

Mmmh yeah true

[thorny oxide]

i mean they are also called corrupted for a reason too wonder if void contamination/indifference corrupted it into his own tool. I think it's why we fight both corrupted and murmur in isleweaver

[ocean geyser]

I’d say the Neural Sentry’s corruption is different from his

But yeah, he’s definitely still able to wield them against us

[tawdry lintel]

I wonder if there's multiple ways to become corrupted

Cuz in Void fissure missions, enemies near a fissure can become "corrupted" with the gold static effect but minus the masks

[ocean geyser]

It could be that’s a sort of stage one thing for Sentry corruption

[tawdry lintel]

So like, corruption by Void energy, then implanted with a mask?

[ocean geyser]

Yeah

[tawdry lintel]

Yeah it says in the operator report behind Loid in the Sanctum

[ocean geyser]

Maybe to keep it stable

[tawdry lintel]

Maybe the Sentry could also be a creation of Entrati?
We see him with the mask in his requiem logs and painting

[ocean geyser]

To be fair he’s not the only one with the mask
For some reason Nef has a modified version of it
And Frost Prime sorta has one too

But it could be!

[tawdry lintel]

What about Vor btw?

U think he could be the big boss of the Corrupted, using the Neural Sentry to maybe like, make more of em?

[pale cedar]

They don’t have a boss

[ocean geyser]

They technically have two if you consider the Undercroft

[tawdry lintel]

yeah the corrupted jackal

[ocean geyser]

Vor kind of works like an assassin, doesn’t he?

Which are basically reverse bosses

[tawdry lintel]

tho, how did it get a mask if there's no sentry down there?

well, i meant boss as in leader

[ocean geyser]

It doesn’t

I think it’s just base Void corruption

[heady quest]

guys i think we are going too far in this.

The Neural Sentry is a simple (in terms of orokin tech) AI for the detection and Removal of any intruders. It uses the masks to "capture" it's enemies and possible intended to only subdue and take them as prisoners to be taken away later idk. But it seems like in the millenia of the orokin being gone all the Neural Sentries forgot there intended purposes and forgot the Tenno who were most likely stationed in Towers as well for defence against sentients. This also would suggest that anyone that got captured by the Neural Sentry was still in captivity to a point where the Neural network realized it could control them. Simply put Neural Sentry is just trying to deter anyone from the Void Towers.

Keep in mind that the Void we see in the starshart is most likely a superficial boundary area of the void (like an oversized void storm) and not the actual void. We have never seen Wally in the void missions so most likely is that wally doesn't even know that these places exist.

Next point corruption: simple void corruption of enemies i assume

(also the mask we see the void mission enemies wear are just orokin mask that was just a fashion item of the orokin. And in this case probably a mockery to those who are captured bu the Neural Sentry.)

[ocean geyser]

I don’t think machines get masks anyway

It’s also entirely plausible that the Towers don’t have anything of interest to Wally

[narrow pendant]

im pretty sure they do get masks

[heady quest]

the void in the starchart is very old and I can see them saying that this is just a giant void storm. We have seen Duviri and what it actually could be the void (although it could also be the "bubble" duviri is in) and also the entrati labs which is another very absurd depiction of "the void under deimos"

[tawdry lintel]

actually the jackal does have a mask
went thru a yt vid

tho the moas and drones dont have em, in the towers

[heady quest]

it could even just be an oversized void fissure which is making the enemies corrupted

[heady quest]

now that is interesting...

i mean not really

[ocean geyser]

They don’t
You can even check the wiki for the models

[heady quest]

we know the corpus and grineer are raiding the Void Towers they could have send in a jackal and that one fell in the void storm possible ending up in the void which then ended in the undercroft

[ocean geyser]

I imagine a machine’s easier to take over than a person

[tawdry lintel]

i kinda thought it mayu have worked a bit like the narmer veils
the veils control the organic converts, while there's some Sentient program that hacks the robotic ones
does it work the same with the Sentry?

[ocean geyser]

I’m pretty sure Teshin says the Corpus sent it into the void and it ended up in Duviri

[heady quest]

the veils work by spraying temple kuva into ones eyes letting them see what they want to see while controlling them. the origin of temple kuva is the Unum, an orokin tower. Could be that the Void Towers also have temple kuva.

which would mean ballas got the idea of veils from when they were designing the Void Towers

[ocean geyser]

huh? where'd you get that?
I know that the veils have funny red energy but idk about them using Kuva

[heady quest]

idk where i can read it again but the reason they went to cetus first in new war was to harvest the temple kuva from the Unum which is used for the veils

i thought this was known lore

[tawdry lintel]

Konzu does sasy something about the Murex plundering the Unum's temple kuva, but idk if it was used to create veils

tho, there is that veil factory in the Vallis thats hooked up to a large kuva eye thing

[ocean geyser]

hmmm perhaps

I guess that would have put the Kuva fortress as an incredibly big target, eh?

not sure what happened to it during the war, but I'd imagine it'd be one of the few faction holdouts

[heady quest]

mmh on the wiki it says that in concept art the veils are crafted from the materials of the Unum

[narrow pendant]

yeah i also just had the duviri jackal in mind

[ocean geyser]

yeah i checked that too

[strange turtle]

Is assassin the word for like stalker/acolytes, zanuka and gustrag?

[ocean geyser]

yeah

because iirc he sort of just... shows up

both in the Orokin Towers and Undercroft

[heady quest]

and that they plundered its Temple Kuva but yeah it is heavily implied the red sparks of the veils, red eye things and even the sprinkling of ballas with the red dust is that Temple Kuva

[ocean geyser]

Worm Queen mustve been PISSED that Ballas was stealing her vibe

[tawdry lintel]

u guys remember the gara legend tho?

about sentients getting kuva?

[restive river]

Is it actually stated or implied that? I can see kuva being used for the veils and the narmer mirrors and such but when would they have gotten it :?

[heady quest]

from the unum

[restive river]

I mean they needed enough to start the invasion

[heady quest]

they raided the Unum

[restive river]

No, WHEN not where

[heady quest]

idk from inside the unum?!

[restive river]

But when did they do that?

Did we hear about any attacks on the Unum prior to that first attack on Cetus, where they’re already using that tech

[tawdry lintel]

not really

[heady quest]

i would assume the first scene of the new war?

[restive river]

I mean Ballas knowing where to get some elsewhere to at least start makes sense

[restive river]

Erra’s already using it by then

[heady quest]

when they attacked the unum to harvest the temple kuva?

[tawdry lintel]

the murex just.. parked itself ontop

[heady quest]

wait when?

[tawdry lintel]

maybe ballas gave him some?

[pale cedar]

Still convinced Unum could’ve easily stopped that Murex

[tawdry lintel]

when he talks o the ostron kid, u can see a kuva orb in his chest

[heady quest]

i thought this was already established lore?? we talked about this for many times???

[restive river]

First scene when the Murex lands

[restive river]

Maybe, but then the question is from where
But if anyone knew where it would be him

[restive river]

Like the Murex had just landed in this scene and Erra’s already there to narmer mirror/veil people

So they can’t have gotten it from the Unum then unless there was an attack prior, which I don’t recall there being one

[heady quest]

idk man i can't explain that but it is in the wiki and i swear we have talked about this before and everybody was just talking about Temple Kuva non stop

[restive river]

Probably, but she likely could see if she actually needed to do that

[restive river]

What’s the wikis source?

[heady quest]

wiki.warframe.com the revamped wiki

[restive river]

Not

What source did the wiki give for that claim.

[pale cedar]

Wiki is run by players who couldn’t give a care in the world about lore

[restive river]

Cause as far as I’m aware the new wiki can still be wrong, incorrect theories can sneak in easily

[pale cedar]

Such as this which I had to remove

[heady quest]

Reaching first reactive crystal
Konzu: "The Unum. They plunder her Temple Kuva! Surah, Konzu begs you. Find a way to reinvigorate her, before it is too late. Kruna-metta."

this is one of the transcripts of the new war

on the new war wiki page

there is also the unum wiki pages itself having a part which describes the events of the new war a bit

"As the Sentients invaded the Origin System, they targeted the Unum's Tower and crashed a Murex into it. They deactivated the Unum and plundered her Temple Kuva. Concept art of the Narmer Veils suggest they are constructed from the Tower's flesh and materials."

[restive river]

That’s
Like at the end of the quest-

[pale cedar]

That’s a comment about what happened at the start of the quest

[heady quest]

i mean that is just a convo we have with Konzu while we free the unum. he is just saying what happened with the Tower when they crashed

[restive river]

Like the veils being made of temple kuva, yes I can see that
They needed to make those

But the initial invasion used narmer mirrors, Erra uses them right as the Murex lands on the Unum

[restive river]

That’s after it landed

Erra is using it already

[heady quest]

i don't understand what you want (not to be rude i am just confused)

i am just giving you where i heard they were gathering temple kuva from the unum

it's in the wiki, i heard it in this server a while ago that it was known established lore

and idk what those orbs are in Erra could very well just be normal Kuva idk

[restive river]

I’m saying Erra already has Narmer mirrors when the Murex lands, so what he’s using isn’t using temple kuva from the Unum unless there was an attack prior OR Ballas knew where to get a bit more

On Praghasa they also have a larger Narmer mirror that effects Teshin
Tbh the whole veil plan seemed like it may been partially in the concept phase once they got there, like they def knew they needed to hit the Unum first to make more

[tawdry lintel]

idk
the war part of the new war kinda went by a bit too fast
the main part of the quest kinda seems trying to fix it after it happend

[restive river]

So whatever they had prior, wherever they got it from was likely in shorter supply

[heady quest]

gotcha thx for clarifying

[restive river]

The narmer mirrors are just the red swirly circles btw, likely a large version for people to look at akin to the tiny version up in front of one’s eyes when veiled

[silent tundra]

What warframes originate from Venus, wanted to be accurate for a fanfic

[restive river]

Worst vr mask ever

[heady quest]

but from what i got from the new war and the prelude to war stuff is that they needed to target cetus first to get more temple kuva to begin mass producing the veils to conquer the Origin system.

Yes that might mean they already had some, i can't tell you from where. But it is said by konshu they harvested the Temple Kuva

[restive river]

What ones we find on Venus, technically would be
Garuda
Baruuk
Hildryn
Yareli
Nokko

[silent tundra]

Ouggrrhgg hi ducky, can you give me a discount

[tawdry lintel]

Nokko, obvi
also Yareli, cuz the Ventkida like her
maybe Garuda? her blueprint was just found there

[restive river]

1% off take it or leave it

[silent tundra]

Thank you!!!!!

[silent tundra]

Better than nothing

[silent tundra]

Garuda obviously she was found on the vallis I’m pretty sure

[restive river]

Hildryn was made to be Ballas’ shield but we get her parts from Venus so

I think there’s others
Those 5 are specifically the Fortuna frames

Isn’t Jackal a venus fight???

So Rhino too??

[silent tundra]

How big is the Vallis compared to all of Venus 🧐

I’ll probably be asking quite a few questions so I can be horrifically detailed

[pale cedar]

Tiny

[silent tundra]

Oh hi

[restive river]

Omg Rhino and Hildryn, they’re the pairing of big muscles 😭
Garuda and Baruuk are gore and pacisifism
Yareli and Nokko are siblings in vibes if nothing else

[silent tundra]

Thanks

[restive river]

Why are Venus’ frames so perfect???

[silent tundra]

Venus is my fav planet fr

[pale cedar]

Something from Venus has to be

[silent tundra]

Eudico my beloved

[restive river]

Little Duck….

:]

[silent tundra]

She’s a close second for me

[restive river]

Oh also Ticker!

We love her :]

[silent tundra]

I didn’t learn how to talk to her till Mr 12

[silent tundra]

Yess cutie

[restive river]

Which Open World is actually the most neglected now???

[silent tundra]

I thought the Vallis since it doesn’t have very specific farms

[restive river]

The Vallis just got an update
We got Koumei last year
Duviri got Isleweaver
Deimos is maybe???

[silent tundra]

OHHH

[restive river]

Yeah the Vallis got somewhat expanded with the new update

[silent tundra]

I forgot about that temporarily

[restive river]

It’s akin to what Koumei did

[pale cedar]

Deimos

[restive river]

Yeah I suppose it is

[silent tundra]

Should I make Yareli appear in my writing or nah. Wondering since I kinda like her

[restive river]

But with Uriel/Roathe coming that may change?

[silent tundra]

Excited…

[pale cedar]

It was Duviri till we got the event

[restive river]

Yes she’s a Venus girly
Ventkids and her bro

[silent tundra]

True, didn’t someone say her and protea were friends or smth

[restive river]

Which to be clear it is unclear if her and Nokko are confirmed siblings or if its purely vibes, they absolutely do know eachother

[restive river]

Unknown? But I could see it

[silent tundra]

Oh yeah tons of HC in my fic so

I don’t worry about that.

[restive river]

Protea is connected to the Corpus (one of her dads is Parvos) and Yareli is connected to the Ventkids, who are Corpus technically

[silent tundra]

I wrote speculative biology that is totally inaccurate to lore I’m already lost

[silent tundra]

Protea my beloved

[restive river]

Like I can see them being pals

[restive river]

Maybe a sorta mentor type relationship?

Protea recognizes that whimsy

[silent tundra]

LOLLOLOL

True true

I plan to explore Venus’s Warframe’s relationships together

I think you can assume who are the two main characters

[restive river]

Lmao

I just connected Hildryn and Rhino are both venus frames
And both buff

[silent tundra]

Maybe they are siblings too

[restive river]

The theming is just so good

[silent tundra]

Jokingly

[restive river]

I think Deimos is still my favorite, lotsa spookiness there

[silent tundra]

Work o it buddies

[restive river]

YES

they see who can lift both of the fortuna siblings at once (Nokko and Yareli are constantly wiggling around)

[silent tundra]

They flex pose together ♥️

YURPPP

Garuda probably stalking from the shadows

Her lack of lore keeps me up at night

[restive river]

Baruuk just standing right next to her cause she thinks she’s sneaky but she aint

Like
Girl
Your GIANT CLAWS are giving you away

[silent tundra]

They rattle and clank <\3

[tawdry lintel]

does baruuk have any lore again?

[silent tundra]

I think her and Valkyr are distant siblings

Because like cmon, girls who love blood, have talons; and want to kill everything in sight

Corpus related sort of

[restive river]

Idk but I remember when he had an Edgemeter

Which I just realized why they may have changed that ._.

[tawdry lintel]

Isn't that his restraint?

[restive river]

Yes

It was literally called an edgemeter

[tawdry lintel]

Ah

[restive river]

Baruuk’s edge

[strange turtle]

The habitable areas of Venus are actually relatively small

So it’s a portion of a small portion

Hidden and entrenched in the mountainous peaks of Venus, the Corpus practice their industrious craft. The superstructures built here are a testament to the inventive Corpus engineers that have settled in regions where lingering Orokin technologies still moderate surface temperatures.

[strange turtle]

Mercury: The only remaining Orokin Towers are hidden here. The Grineer patrol this area to prevent Tenno incursion.

Void: Ancient Orokin places are hidden here.

Found this in a transcript of Old starchart planet descriptions, so they’re presumably in the area of the Void corresponding to Mercury and the Void being a separate system is just thing to differentiate them from stuff on the actual planet

[heady quest]

i just meant that the void in the starchart is an old aspect of the game. i was just saying that DE could update the old void (as they have done with duviri and now the murmur) into it being a giant void storm at the edge of the origin system or something or rather a collection of voidstorms throughout the system with Void Towers in them ofc.

can't believe we didn't get a void proxima region for railjack. Idk if veil proxima really counts?

[tawdry lintel]

i think veil proxima is just the fringes of normal space, where the sentient probably arrived from, from tau

[ocean geyser]

I doubt that there’s any Orokin ships remaining anyway

[restive river]

We know the rail was by pluto though
So maybe that’s just where they hid?

Or they hid in an area relative to veil proxima

[tawdry lintel]

oh yeah

[proper barn]

This isn't true cus they used the solar rail

To attack.

[tawdry lintel]

what about in scarlet spear?
didn't little duck say something about Veil Proxima?

[stiff fable]

Veil Proxima is "just" stuff outside the origin system, basically deep space

Basically when the Sentients threw the Old War they all jetted off outside the Origin System to wait for Natah's go signal

[spice wedge]

[shadow flicker]

What could be the lore implications if the indifference grew to develop feelings of hate?
Hate has philosophically been structured as the counterpart to love, which has been shown to be the antithesis of the indifference.
Could making Wally come to hate us be the first step in bringing this entity to mutual understanding?

[humble sierra]

"Indifference" is really just a name for it. It isn't indifferent itself, but it seems like (from Eleanor's encounter with it) it makes you feel insignificant and erases all emotion— the being itself isn't indifferent. It's full of loathing and anger towards Albrecht and the Orokin.

[ashen pulsar]

we've seen it attempt to incite hatred anyways, so we know it's not scared of that

negative emotions aren't an issue for wally

[shadow flicker]

Ah, true.
This discussion made me realize something else. The relationship that Neci and the indifference have, is that the final state of a deal that has not been reneged on?
What benefit of assimilation or domination could there be for the indifference in regards to interpersonal relationships?

[humble sierra]

It used Neci as an access point into 1999, and I guess when we expelled the Indifference from 1999 it just took her to Duviri in direct mockery.

[ashen pulsar]

I don't think neci and the indifference have a deal exactly

it's just puppeting her

[humble sierra]

There was a deal made, I believe Wally keeps her alive after she poisoned herself with Efervon to cure her infestation

[ashen pulsar]

"But each time she turned the spider away. She let go of envy by clinging to her favorite toy and family, hid fear in the arms of strangers, turned away from sadness to happiness, turned away from joy to war, and finally turned away from war... until she realized she had nothing else left.
The spider smiled... and he ate her all up."

she eventually gave in and got consumed

[humble sierra]

Neci Rusalka: "I was dying all along, did you know that? Dying from the poison I sucked down to kill the Techrot in my lungs. Until it held out my own severed hand to me… and offered me life."

[ashen pulsar]

yeah, so it seems like she tried to fight it off for most of her life, but when she was at her worst it kinda slid in and offered to save her

[lean garden]

If we go psychoanalytical shticks hate isnt the opposite to love, indifference is

[normal mountain]

That... is what they said, no?

[lean garden]

nope

[normal mountain]

"Hate is the counterpart of love
Which is the antithesis of indifference"

[lean garden]

which isnt remotely close to what I said

because hates role in my statement has no relation to indifference

hatred isnt the thing that freud identifies as indifference's opposite

[normal mountain]

They said hate is a counterpart to love
Not opposite

Not once did they say hate is opposite of love

[lean garden]

...

Im literally stating that according to psychoanalytical shticks hatred has no position in the juxtaposition of love and indifference

its just love and indifference

[lean garden]

not even what I said

[lean garden]

not even what I said either

[normal mountain]

The pings were unnecessary, I'm still here

As for your statement
It's correcting something that was never in error in the first place

If you meant that hate has no part in the juxtaposition
You could have simply said that

[lean garden]

ok

[lean garden]

just for spite let me go for an even more confusing statement

[lean garden]

theres actually no real need with psychoanalytic freudian, hegelian hoodoo, Wally's repeated attempts at copying the human shape, as well as dredging up the human psyche, with the cherry on top of the heightening of other creatures to understand it all demonstrate wally is already down that path.

We can see it with what bird 3 is shmooving with, when Bird 3 tells you how it feels about going from nothing to something, and how it wonders how others think.

This I take to be a subtle hint that this is what bird 3 understood and gleaned from wally. The creation of the "other" in wally's psyche is the first step in being able to as you say "come to a mutual understanding"

The creation of the "other", is where we go into creation relations between the self and the other. The self can only be recognised to exist if there is an other, who is similar enough to do said recognition, but separate enough to be a distinct creature to not be confused for the self.

So everytime wally has beef with us, and us it, we affirm it, and yet likewise we thread common enough ground

[normal mountain]

...
well done
I just barely followed that

[lean garden]

tldr
wally is already on the path to mutual understanding because the mechanics of his existence, as well as his beef, makes it that the more he bumbles about playing the human game and beefing with bona fide humans, the more we and him understand each other

[violet storm]

That or The techrot was recent and it was an uphill fight neci was losing

Don’t think we know just how aggressive a techrot infection is

[strange turtle]

They mean Wally, not the techrot

[violet storm]

My bad…

[shadow flicker]

Congrats at gaining access to chatgpt

[lean garden]

never touched the stuff

[shadow flicker]

So, even though the sentients are vulnerable to everything void, what’s the likelihood that Adis has, or will, made a deal with the indifference?

[hollow siren]

not really anything pointing to it rn, but also not really anything directly denying it so

[lean garden]

Id say not particularly likely, but nothing would deny adis the opportunity, well except damage by exposure to void energies

[raw stone]

Okay so... I wanna sorta open that cold case abt us actually being the last Tenno versus there being a lot of tenno still roaming;

The New War. I'm hesitant to accept that the system fell that quickly if there were Tenno other than the player at play here.

I mean. I guess it accounts for the fact that an unspecified amount of time took place between the Operator ourselves falling into the void and then the Drifter rising but still.

[silk atlas]

There are not a lot of Tenno and literally everyone was fighting together to fight the Sentients. There being 1 or a few thousand Tenno wasn't going to change that outcome.

[heady quest]

I have seen an interestin theory i na yt short somewhere that sad that Wally was an already pre existing entity in the void who was experiencing every timeline in existence. up until the point is fingers got cut off which remained in this material Timeline, which made Wally kinda stuck and bound to this timeline. And this is why it is constantly trying to invade our realm to get his fingers back so i can be free from time again (doing eldritch void being things again)

[humble sierra]

There's some stuff that implies after the Operator is stabbed, the Tenno are cut off from their powers

[raw stone]

Unless since Lua was also under Narmer control so... there's those worms

[heady quest]

it also said that that is why Alrbecht thought he could go back into time (thinking he created a new timeline where Wally couldn't reach to plot his plans) but it didn't work because 1999 is somehow connected to the main timeline so that Wally could follow him.

i might be butchering the original theory but that is the gist of it

idk i found it interesting

[humble sierra]

Albrecht goes to 1999 for some unclear reason. He came to the conclusion 1999 was relevant, but he never thought it was an alternate reality.

[silk atlas]

They controlled basically everything directly besides Deimos, and I doubt Lua is too too important after the Tenno found themselves.

He went to 1999 because he knew that Wally couldn't easily follow him there, along with him messing around with the funny Techrot stuff

[heady quest]

oh wait they do say Albrecht thought Wally would follow him and get stuck in 1999 to protect loid but it didn't work in the end

[humble sierra]

Yeah, Albrecht went back and forth between the Labs and 1999, but realized that Wally was chasing him, so he tried staying in 1999.

[pale cedar]

He would’ve already known Wally was following him

[heady quest]

but i mean it could still be a possibility that Wally is just trying to get his finger back in order to be free from this timeline. But he developed pure hate of this world and Alrbrecht and the orokin to essentially try to corrupt the whole timeline into destroying it

but creating us is still a weird move tbh

[pale cedar]

Wally is only mad at the Orokin for using his fingers

[heady quest]

yes he might get an army to destroy the world but we are rebelious kids come on

[heady quest]

does Wally know the orokin are gone? Or what is Wally angry at rn?

[pale cedar]

He definitely knows

Doesn’t mean his hatred of them disappears

[heady quest]

true true

[twin wigeon]

again? last time someone stuck us with a blade, things didn't go so well for them

[swift gyro]

What is the district 12 in fortuna?

[ocean geyser]

Deck 12
The “old” Fortuna

It’s explained pretty clearly when the Exploiter fight happens

[raw stone]

You gotta visit the abandoned cave... what was it?, in the east edge of the map? East of Fortuna

[ocean geyser]

Yea

[twin wigeon]

It was introduced during the first thermia fractures event I think Operation Buried Debts

Essentially from what I gather, Deck 12 was leading a rebellion to take back the vallis and rid it of Anyo’s lackeys until he summoned the Orb Mother to slaughter the Vox Solaris and decommissioned Deck 12 permanently

Operation Buried Debts let us avenge and rekindle their rebellion against anyo by challenging Orb Mother by introducing her to distilled thermia awarded by closing the thermia fractures she’d unleaded by pumping too much coolant in the ground

Little Duck, Thursby, Biz, Eudico, Zuud, and her sisters were among the survivors of Vox Solaris and were forced to keep it down and obey Anyo unless Orb Mother needed to do some more repo

Except that Zuud’s sisters were badly damaged and close to death, they eventually bound their mind to some sort of shared consciousness with Rude Zuud, which explains the chatter. It her sisters chatting.

Bleh tldr: rebellion comes at a heavy cost, in this case Vox Solaris lost Deck 12 and temporarily their dignity

[tall echo]

They were one from the start

[twin wigeon]

Really? I thought they were physical sisters being condensed to one, sharing one mind

[tall echo]

They(three sisters) were one(mind) from the start

[hollow siren]

"I was there when we lost Zuud's sisters. For a lifetime, they shared a sensorium, created as one. Losing them crushed Zuud, her universe narrowing to single set of eyes, one pair of hands. The isolation broke her, remade her. A tragic figure, to be sure and loved."

[twin wigeon]

Wow I really misinterpreted that line then

[unique talon]

Technically, Eris surface would be something like that?

I still do not know why we can't go there directly

I mean, we can normally walk on Deimos without problems..

[strange plinth]

from what we know of it, yea that's a decent portion (at least) of the surface

[ocean geyser]

Deimos but boring maybe

[pale cedar]

Deimos 2

[hollow siren]

Eris is the central site of the main Hivemind, if we ever go there I'm hoping we have like a Gravemind situation

https://tenor.com/view/halo-gravemind-monument-to-all-your-sins-flood-cutscene-gif-5367290381707139366

[strange plinth]

i feel like it might be more hostile
deimos has the wyrms that are fighting each other, eris prolly doesn't
we will be an intruder there

[pale cedar]

But we are their flesh

[hollow siren]

imagine if Eris just becomes a Brethren Moon-esque thing

[unique talon]

The moon is literally being eaten

[hollow siren]

Eris is a dwarf planet IIRC.

[strange plinth]

the helminth's, sure, but we're still seen as a "sickness" of some kind to the rest
"And do Your white blood cells not attack You when You are Sick?!"

[unique talon]

Is it that hard for DE to give some attention to Eris?

Like is a literal infested dump

[strange plinth]

it would be wonderful to get some eris nodes on the surface
or even like. crashed ships, like on the europa tileset
some of those infested concepts you posted in gameplay a bit ago would work well there

[pale cedar]

Infestation doesn’t care about strain

We aren’t seen as as sickness

[hollow siren]

I already said it but yeah I really hope that if we ever go to Eris' surface we get to like directly converse with the Main Hivemind in like a Gravemind-esque situation

[pale cedar]

For an Infested unit to call a frame a sickness they would have to call themselves a sickness

[unique talon]

Since the infestation in the actual lore is getting the necessary attention it deserves

With the infested liches, Deimos, so why not Eris?

[hollow siren]

we know the main Hivemind gets a bit confused as to why the Warframes are fighting it, since they're also Infested

[unique talon]

Also, is the main place of the hivemind

Nidus could also be some sort of key for that

[pale cedar]

Does that confirm they don’t know there is a kid for the most part with the few exceptions

[hollow siren]

getting proper Nidus lore would be nice

rn all we kinda have is the inbox message when you get his blueprint from the quest, and his Prime Trailer

[silk atlas]

They'd have to know at some point, especially after 1999 when you talk to it directly with Flare and Lizzie

[hollow siren]

Helminth knows, but it doesn't seem like the Main Hivemind does

[silk atlas]

That doesn't make sense, because Helminth is part of the hivemind

[unique talon]

The helminth and the infestation are the most crucial part of the lore, yeah tau I cool and all..

[hollow siren]

we know the Infestation knows about the Indifference in some way, as it fears "The Smiling One"

[silk atlas]

They're all the same thing to the hivemind. That's the point of a hivemind

[hollow siren]

There are multiple Infested Hiveminds

hence "Main Hivemind"

[silk atlas]

No there aren't...

[north jolt]

Okay so I thought of something. Warframes are made from human bodies infused with the helminth straight right, and Caliban is a warframe/sentient hybrid right? I can see how they mixed human and sentient, but aren't sentients suppose to be immune to helminth infection? So how did they make that specific part work?

[strange plinth]

Lizzie also has the "made of stolen fingers and Infested Toys" line in KIM
she kinda brings it up first

[hollow siren]

Caliban seems to have been engineered from scratch rather than born from mutation

[silk atlas]

Not elaborated on but Sentient-ifying living things isn't a first with Caliban, see the Sentient Amalgams

[north jolt]

The amalgams came way after tho, chronologically Caliban would be the first sentient hybrid (that we know of)

[silk atlas]

Or rather it's the first we've seen it in game, but Caliban is afaik the first time it chronologically happened

[north jolt]

Yeah

[pale cedar]

Isn’t the definition of a hivemind something that’s made up of multiple strains in this case

[north jolt]

But I wonder how they hybridized sentient tech with something infused with helminth

[unique talon]

Also

[silk atlas]

"They just did that"

[unique talon]

What is the purpose of Caliban prime?

Mocking at ballas?

[strange plinth]

symbol of the old peace

[hollow siren]

Made as a symbol of peace

[unique talon]

How so?

[hollow siren]

to show the alliance between Orokin and Sentient

[strange plinth]

"Forged in celebration of the all-too-brief peace between the Orokin and the Sentients, Caliban Prime is a true collaborative masterpiece. The heir of twin kingdoms arises in royal gold."

[north jolt]

I guess if they really wanted to force it

[strange plinth]

a physical representation of their collaboration

[unique talon]

So that was all before the old war

[silk atlas]

No, in the middle of it

[strange plinth]

old war part 1 > old peace > old war part 2
warframes were made and the tenno weaponized during the first part
hunhow destroyed the origin-side solar rail during the second

[silk atlas]

The Old Peace was a cease fire

[hollow siren]

"The Old War" was a long time period of recurring conflicts, not a singular battle

[pale cedar]

We don’t even remember most of it

[unique talon]

Fair enough

[celest needle]

I am so confused on Alad V’s story

Not that I don't understand what happened I learned about it after through the wikibbut

Why is it so poorly explained

[strange plinth]

welcome to the club
things have been.. moved around a lot since it was made

[celest needle]

Like
He survives after we kill Zanuka
Becomes infested
SOMEHOW CURED OF THE INFESTATION
Starts working with the sentients
Creates the ropalyst
Betrays the sentients
Dies during Veso’s segment

Like
What

[strange plinth]

maybe dies

[pale cedar]

It isn’t poorly explained
You just missed the events

[celest needle]

I do kind of hate that

You'd have no idea why the Corpus are on Brutus unless you played belly of the beast

[strange plinth]

but yea that's the intended storyline
there's lost operations and patient zero is placed after second dream on the star chart, despite being before
the amalgams are present on jupiter before you encounter sentients in the star chart

[strange plinth]

tbf you can't play brutus until you've done jade shadows at least
n even then you know they've taken interest because they tracked stalker there

[celest needle]

Parvos’s involvement in it

[pale cedar]

You do get all the dialogue in the mission

A better example would be players not knowing because they don’t think to do the mission

[strange plinth]

it is missing the "this is why jade eximus exist" portion, but i don't think there's much else from botb that's missing

[celest needle]

Also like

Orphix Venom

And scarlet spear

If you were not there you would have no idea why Lotus is suddenly a eidolon

[pale cedar]

Luckily Orokin Archives has all events if you miss them

[strange plinth]

there's 2 or 3 whole events during prelude to war that are missing yea
would be cool if those were reimplemented in some way

[strange plinth]

she's only an eidolon after regrowing her from the hand in new war, tho

[celest needle]

In the new war she's basically dying though

[pale cedar]

You’d know Lotus is an Eidolon if you’ve done at least one Eidolon mission

[twin wigeon]

You would know that in order to care for an Eidolon you need to give it shards of Eidolon energy

Dur

Ordis seems to have never done an trido before smh

[pale cedar]

Or anti-entropic radiation

[celest needle]

What if we just stuff a bunch of shards into a regular eidolon

[strange plinth]

hunhow lays out that "death leaves a mark" and alludes to the power the archons hold in the same conversation

[strange plinth]

might reform
let's not find out lol
don't need to blow up the giant sentient a second time

[twin wigeon]

Meanwhile Drifter:

[pale cedar]

“A source of anti-entropic radiation ideal for empowering synthetic lifeforms, most notably Archons and Warframes.”

[modest surge]

||is the nightcap we know essentially the nightcap prior to his death? are the mushrooms just masquerading him, or is that actually him?||

[lilac aspen]

Something something Mushroom meme something something ”You can’t kill me in a way that matters” something something

Personally if Nightcap believes he’s Nightcap, he’s Nightcap

[pale cedar]

Nightcap also tells us he didn’t die

[lilac aspen]

We’d still need to recover pieces of them to full restore them. Those Eidolons are basically small parts of GIGA Sentient or so. It’d be like trying to revive me but you only have my arm (which still talks to you though).

[pale cedar]

There’s a lot of complicated stuff when it comes to Nightcap

[proper barn]

he got up from where his body was.

[modest surge]

does anyone in fortuna actually know nightcap?

[pale cedar]

Personally?

[modest surge]

basically the equivalent of waking up from a "long nap" it seems

[modest surge]

ye

cuz he wasn't in nefs debt list, probably because hes been out of commission for a while

[pale cedar]

Nokko
Prince
The Circle

[modest surge]

well, aside from the fun guys

[pale cedar]

None of the others in there mention him

He is hiding in a vent

[celest needle]

So
How much of a threat is the Narmer Cult currently

Of course they're a threat but comparatively to everything else going on in the origin system

[pale cedar]

Not much

It’s like 4 Sentients total and the fragments which barely do anything

Grineer and Corpus have much more of a hold on the system

[celest needle]

But they do have some foothold

Entire facilities on Earth, Venus, Jupiter and Mars taken by them

I wonder if a Narmer Veil would work on the Cavia

[misty salmon]

.... why must you do this to our best goat-thing, hasn't he suffered enough? (maybe the fish)

[versed portal]

I feel like Nef Anyo is getting desperate now that (more of) his secret plans are being demolished, especially through the voicelines.

Perhaps a potential confrontation in a later quest? Sure he’s got the money, but he’s been failing left and right.

[idle oasis]

Does Warframe canon lore definitively state if the infestation was created by the Orokin or if they just used it to their advantage? Or is that speculation. I'm not talking about the Helminth strain or Entrati's technocyte experiments. I am curious whether the actual source of the infestation is known.

[proper barn]

It definitely wasn't made by them. They did use it to make biobombs like the one used on diemos and to make helminth.

@idle oasis have you played 1999?

[idle oasis]

yup

Is there a specific piece of canon lore that shows that they cant be the creators of it? Because from all that I know it can neither be confirmed nor denied.

[tall echo]

It exists in 1999.

[proper barn]

Okay. 1999 infestation wasn't put there by Albretch.

It was already there before he arrived.

Techrot is the infestation.

[tall echo]

Oldest form we know of so far

Fittingly much more primitive in how it assimilates things

[proper barn]

We know Eleanor found the beginnings of it.

When it was still called

Testuta Syndrome

[tall echo]

Testudo

[proper barn]

Yeah.

[idle oasis]

yea but is it actually said that he didnt cause it? As far as we know he may have taken a strain back to 1999 and during the protoframe experiments it got out of hand no?

[proper barn]

Yes

[strange plinth]

it was known as the plague year before he arrived

[proper barn]

We know he didn't cause it.

Also yes it was. He comes in the MIDDLE of the plague year.

Which is what the mire said

The original mire said.

[strange plinth]

rusalka pins it on him as propaganda, there's some logs in the pc next to Aoi that show the scaldra had been messing with it for a few years before

[proper barn]

Also Eleanor was reporting on it before 1999.

[idle oasis]

I see, thanks guys!

[tall echo]

Also, the protos were volunteers for a cure to the techrot

[idle oasis]

oh didnt catch that, good to know, thanks

[proper barn]

They

It was the "2nd"

Cure Albretch gave them.

[tall echo]

Potato tomato

[gilded sky]

so said excalibur prime

[vale rivet]

Dose eudico know about our operations in the undermine?

[vagrant kiln]

what is the entire duviri's and what its relationship with warframe

[proper barn]

@vagrant kiln how far are you in the game?

[vagrant kiln]

in the moment before starting the new war, hasn't begin it yet

[proper barn]

@vagrant kiln play the new war.

Then we can talk.

Cuz Duviri is uhhh. Time agnostic a little bit lmao.

@vagrant kiln have you played duviri is also part of this question?

[vagrant kiln]

i see, thanks for the information

[vagrant kiln]

yeah, it has been like 2 years so im expecting to forgot some of its content

[proper barn]

Question is the quest replayable now? If so I would say replay it after the new war.

It is replayable. Play it after. @vagrant kiln

[vagrant kiln]

alright if you say so

thanks buddy

[proper barn]

Any other lore question?

[vagrant kiln]

nothing for now ig, if anything it just the duviri looks like entire new game 😅

[proper barn]

I'll be honest and tell you when you we don't know or you'll see it later.

[heady quest]

guys the new enemies in the deepmines have bigger descriptions in the codex

they are learning from soulframe and possible we are getting lore through these

i think the only interesting one (but we already know this) is the description of the Field commander i think he is called?

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/high-five-walter-white-jesse-pinkman-breaking-bad-4k-gif-21661584

[heady quest]

i kinda like how soulframe is doing its history in like the many descriptions of items, weapons, armor and even the locations so seeing warframe expand on that too makes me exited for more history of the warframe world

[tall echo]

We've had lore in codex entries before

[ocean geyser]

I think they’re just celebrating the presence of more of it

[heady quest]

yeah that it expanded more

[modest surge]

why's steel meridian still friends with red veil if they're actually torturing grineer defectors right next door..

[ocean geyser]

I think that’s just a regular grineer

Meridian kind of hates the regular grineer

[modest surge]

is this not accurate? i was reading up on them in the official wiki

[silk atlas]

If it's not quotes ripped straight from the game, it's something written by a player and subject to not be wholly accurate. All the factions actually tolerate each other and want to work with the Tenno and the fact that factions hate each other is just a game mechanic

[modest surge]

icy

[cunning tapir]

It could be overly-enthusiastic veil members acting on their own.
Plus, Chains of Harrow had Red Veil members kill Steel Meridian members so it's possible there are some leftovers who're still driven mad from Wally's influence.

[normal mountain]

Doesn't explain the Grineer soldier strapped to the table looking like he's about to be dissected

[lilac aspen]

That could just be a normal grineer soldier

Red Veil are the weird edgy guys so it makes sense they have some tortured person strapped to a table

[oak wedge]

The Man Who Sold The World
(Live Nirvana version on Spotify)
Would fit Warframe 1999 pretty well

“Gee, I wonder why.”
(They first performed it during 1993)

[ocean geyser]

Is the “Nidus can infest a whole planet” thing actually canon?

I remember seeing conversations about it

[pale cedar]

No

[silk atlas]

That's not a thing, and even then, its not that crazy considering a small piece of Infested could just take over entire ships over time anyway

[restive river]

Yeah it wouldn’t be a Nidus specific thing
The infestation is just that scary lol

[pale cedar]

Powerscalers just love to say crazy things with 0 evidence

[feral cape]

No

The infested haven't infested a full planet at all they took over mercury but the planets still there

[tall echo]

They did take over eris and deimos tho

[ocean geyser]

They are admittedly smaller than planets tbh

[feral cape]

Neither are planets

[feral cape]

Nearly everything anyone ever says regarding warframe power scaling is wrong

Except me tho I cite my sources

[pale cedar]

Powercaling in general

[restive river]

Eris is a dwarf planet, be nice ):

[feral cape]

Thought it was a moon

[pale cedar]

Nah

[restive river]

I did too
I thought wrong

[pale cedar]

How many moons are even in Warframe?

[restive river]

As many as there are in our real solar system + however many Tau has

Alternatively, the answer is as many moons as there are in the actual universe

[strange turtle]

I think they mean as in, as nodes and systems

[strange turtle]

Earth: Lua
Mars: Deimos, Phobos
Jupiter: Europa, Ganymede, Io, Callisto
Saturn: Enceladus, Titan, Tethys, Telesto, Calypso, Rhea, Dione, Helene, Pandora, Anthe
Uranus: Titania, Umbriel, Oberon, Puck, Ophelia, Sycorax, Desdemona, Cressida, Ariel, Rosalind, Caliban
Neptune: Triton, Nereid, Neso, Psamanthe, Sao, Galatea
Pluto: Hydra, Cerberus (Kerberos), Hades, Acheron? (Charon)

+whatever that moon in Tau is

@pale cedar

[pale cedar]

Perita is Taus moon iirc

[lilac aspen]

The Orokin needed to detonate a specific infestation bomb on Deimos

[strange turtle]

There’s also bunch of references to other astrological stuff, like the Kuiper Relay was most likely in the Kuiper Belt, Olympus (Mons), Ishtar and Aphrodite (Ishtar/Aphrodite Terra being 2 of the continents on Venus), the Keeler Gap in Saturn’s ring

[lilac aspen]

The Sentients were trying to take Deimos so the Orokin there went

“I’m losing? Nah, we losing.”

And the Sentients just watched and then went “Not worth the effort, let them lose their planet to that problem.”

[pale cedar]

Deimos isn't a planet

[restive river]

Anyone remember the convo where Drifter explains swapping between their states of being? Between physical and void?

[bright temple]

vaguely

I don’t remember the specific convo

[restive river]

I don’t either, which is the problem

Cause I’m trying to search it on Kimulacrum but I’m not having luck

Mostly cause I don’t remember anything specifically stated, just what it was about

[bright temple]

I’m pretty sure it was in the newest set of convos

[lilac aspen]

Potato tomato

Long story short the infestation needed a head start from the Orokins plague bomb to actually take over Deimos quickly

[restive river]

I recall it being with Kaya but I may be mistaken

[lilac aspen]

So Nidus definitely cannot just
Infest a planet quickly

[restive river]

Well that was quickly
A single spore can go a long way

The issue isn’t the infestation’s speed it’s the resilience of it
It’s why Earth went through at least 18 radiation wars

It’s why Earth is why it is now iirc too

[pale cedar]

Yeah

[lilac aspen]

Especially since there are Dark Sectors, places where the infestation is at but basically cut off from everyone else to prevent the spread.

Alas they’re enduring so they can’t be wiped unless you want to cause damages to the planet like Earth’s radiation wars

[stiff fable]

Sooo are Evil Baro's lines changing between visits?

Because these seem like different voice lines than I remember

[restive river]

Yeah i believe so

[stiff fable]

Spooky!

Also DE has decided that subtlety is for cowards

"Ex-shadows" indeed

[lean garden]

Look for "consciousness" might help

[restive river]

Ty
It was a convo with Quincy!

The quotes from the convo

“Whatever you call it, whatever the explanation, I'm kind of living proof that consciousness exists without a body, yeah.”

“I still don't think there's a soul, Q. I think my body just takes a different form - matter turning to energy temporarily. Otherwise how would I get it back?”

From QuincyRank4Convo5

[strange turtle]

“Whatever you call it, I'm kind of living proof that consciousness exists without a body, yeah.”

“I still don't think there's a soul, Q.”

https://tenor.com/view/how-do-we-tell-him-mr-krabs-spongebob-meme-spongebob-meme-gif-24063814

[restive river]

Something something queasy debates of oro something something…

[normal mountain]

Bah
At this point I'm convinced that we have only two choices
Souls don't exist
or
Everything has a soul

[mystic lynx]

Do we know when Lavos become a prime? Is it before or after the fall of the orokin empire?

[viscid aspen]

We don't know and so far there's nothing to suggest either, but it definitely had to happen after he learned transmutation from Javi and massacred the Orokin in the jail

[dull crescent]

i bet ballas created nokko from yareli’s brother just to spite yareli

like seriously ballas would do that in a heartbeat

[proper barn]

Probably

@dull crescent when he is talking to umbra he talks about how he's dooming umbras family.

[dull crescent]

and theres the proof

[restive river]

Nightcap says Nokko isn’t some leftover freak from an Orokin lab

[tall elm]

what does that even mean tho

[tall echo]

Doesn't he specifically say "not just some leftover freak"?

[swift sentinel]

Nightcap: "Well look at you, Nokko. You ain't some leftover freak that some Orokin mucker made in a lab. Don't know how or why, but somewhere along the line you became the roots and fruits."

from the wiki

To me, it implies that the fungus stuff took over a Warframe and became Nokko.

[strange turtle]

I have my own thing to say on this but I already said it in another channel so
#spoiler-chat message

[hollow siren]

even on Nokko's model you can almost see that it looks like the fungus is growing over and covering a solid black framework

[unique talon]

So nokko is a mix of infestation and fungus?

[ocean geyser]

Spores squared

[strange turtle]

Some of the metal bits also look like it’s grown around them instead of how it usually looks when they’re just protruding, at least to me

[hollow siren]

yeah

[ashen pulsar]

Wonder what og nokko looked like

[hollow siren]

I imagine they were quite lanky, and that the big legs are just from the mushrooms growing

it's hard to say since the black base we see is like the same style that almost all frames have on parts of their body

[ashen pulsar]

Probably

[ocean geyser]

Nokko is secretly an Excalibur that fell into the Undermines

[jaunty siren]

i believe we'll see kullervo in the next major update

he'll be among those who lead the tenno to betray the orokin

and when he get sent to duviri

it'll connect the past operatoe, drifter and current day operator

idk i just love kullervolt

[tall echo]

Past and present operator are the same person

[summer marsh]

i love kullervo too you understand me

my pfp is a painting titled Regretful Kullervo

[pale cedar]

After an update brings a frame they are almost never mentioned at all after said update

[restive river]

Huh?? He wasn’t even there for that

[tall echo]

And sometimes they're not even mentioned in the same update

[tall echo]

Huh?? He was there for a rebellion

[restive river]

Not for the big one tho

Not for the naga drums

[tall echo]

Who said naga drums?

[summer marsh]

"You saw the new generation of your kind and the Tenno whose deviltry blent with theirs; and you began to whisper corruption into their ears, weave dark thoughts through the coils of their minds. Incepting, as is your wont, chaos and disaster. You are charged with Espionage."

"The Night of the Naga Drums. Your incepted chaos... bloomed... and the beautiful gilded Empire... fell. Were you not entirely responsible? Of course not. You are, after all, a fool. But one need not be entirely responsible for the murder of an empire to be punished for their role in it. And punished you shall be. For a second count of Treason."

[tall echo]

Oh fake ballas did

[summer marsh]

the writing for this big duviri epitaph goes
"Within the mirror of self
Beyond the portal of becoming
Exists no thing
Which thine own self
Didst not bring" and i think this is about Albrecht and how The Indifference is his conceptual embodiment. and i think the epitaph itself resembles The Man In The Wall. if a bit... geometrically simplified

[ocean geyser]

Man in the circle

[tall echo]

First thing, probably, second thing, no

[normal mountain]

Don't forget his Attempted Regicide
Proves that Kullervo was there for the drums

Or at least was active in the following chaos...

Hmm
I may have read too much into that

[summer marsh]

there’s the same gap at the legs too

[rugged ruin]

And I got a question and lore question do we know any other Tennos like we know reil but who else use a Warframe and was called a Tenno

That we know in the lore

[barren jasper]

like by name? or that we just know exist

bc we've seen other tenno in the new war zariman sequence

[pale cedar]

Berryn
Terolee

We don't know their current status though

[barren jasper]

and I think there's at least one in the comics but I haven't read those

[barren jasper]

are those from the comics

[pale cedar]

They're the 2 from the Zariman cutscene

[rugged ruin]

Are they from the reil comic?

[barren jasper]

oh I didn't even know they had names lol

[restive river]

From the zariman

New war

[rugged ruin]

OH THE ONES THAT THE DRIFTER HELPED

[restive river]

What?

[rugged ruin]

Or calm down

[restive river]

No the ones the Operator/Drifter helped

They were the same person til the deal

[pale cedar]

There is also Nimian

[restive river]

Then Wally gave one powers and not the other

[rugged ruin]

That’s what I mean

[restive river]

Ye

[rugged ruin]

It’s a bit disappointing

But it’s fine

[restive river]

What?

[rugged ruin]

WAIT WAIT WAIT

[rugged ruin]

COULD WE MEET MORE DIFFERENT TENNO IN THE OLD PEACE

[restive river]

Maybe

Technically other players are just other Tenno, that being said there aren’t as many Tenno as there are players

Also we have sorta met one, Adis
They seem to be treated similarly and even had a situation akin to the tenno and their warframes

[barren jasper]

i hope we meet the archons in the old peace

[restive river]

Depends when they were made, I think it said but idk

We dont know if Natah exists at that point yet so

[proper barn]

Natah gets trained by the Wolf in tau.

[restive river]

I’m aware.

[unique talon]

Is it true that limbo is the closest thing we have for Dio?

[restive river]

He can freeze enemies in time within his bubble
So

Closest you’d get to a stand in Warframe is Sevagoth tho

[unique talon]

What about protea?

[restive river]

She doesn’t stop time

[unique talon]

I mean yeah.. he's the only one with a stand

[unique talon]

But has time manipulation

[restive river]

She manipulates time but not like Dio
Maybe more like Killer Queen

[restive river]

Dio just stops time for a set time so

Also with Limbo you used to freeze projectiles in time too

[unique talon]

King crimson?

[restive river]

But that was changed a long time ago
So yes Limbo is your best bet for Dio
Sevagoth for general Jojo
Protea for just time manipulation

[restive river]

No, that’s not what his power does

King crimson erases time iirc
Protea just rewinds with an explosion, so Killer Queen

Old Limbo

https://youtu.be/n_Nmo9FIH5c?si=CCQ_BjnEQizDnvG4

I’d also say Limbo and Sev’s kits work better if you’re going for a “stand-like” frame
Protea’s just the engineer from tf2 and has time powers more so for her lore and cause the devs made cool tech

[silk atlas]

...Tracer is a character. I know Blizzard themselves forget she existed but that doesn't mean we gotta

[restive river]

Nah I’m fine with forgetting her and that franchise as a whole

[past halo]

I hope that when we get to the Old Peace we see Umbra as a Dax before he became the man he is now

[restive river]

Def not impossible since he was helminthed towards the end of the war iirc

I’d have to refresh myself but it’d just depend on when Ballas was planning things

It also seems like we’re fighting Dax (likely on the behest of the Orokin under the guise of the Separatists) so I do doubt we’d get to see him and if we did we may not even recognize him

Like us the player not us the tenno

[tall echo]

How would you even recognize him? By his slightly dumber looking hat?

[restive river]

Yeah that’s kinda the biggest issue lmao

[tall echo]

What purpose do the helmets even serve?

[past halo]

He has his own portrait first shown in the Sacrifice

[tall echo]

Which is a regular dax with a slightly dumber looking hat

[past halo]

Uniformity exception I suppose

[tall echo]

The shape guides pretty much all non-vertical attacks straight to the neck

Maybe the weight is supposed to crush down the spine so there's no neck to hit

[past halo]

A certain robot bird man proved that theory wrong

[tall echo]

Not really

He doesn't go for the neck and failed to kill both times he used the move

[restive river]

Calling Erra a bird is funny lol

[humble sierra]

Technically, all Warframes can be Stands for the Operator/Drifter

[restive river]

Does that mean Sev’s shadow is a ||requiem stand???|| jojo spoilers

[ashen pulsar]

There’s a few rules for stands to have iirc

[ashen pulsar]

Or a stand²

[ashen pulsar]

Warframes don’t meet them

[restive river]

They meet the “thing person summons that hurts stuff/does weird hyper specific thing and looks weird”

It’s a “close enough” situation

[ashen pulsar]

I guess

They’re closer to most mechs tho

[restive river]

Sev is def the closest to being a stand
Or rather
Having one

[ashen pulsar]

Yeah

[restive river]

Like he is factually a walking jojo reference lol

I still like to think that Rebb naming that railjack the ss jojo or whatever is how we eventually got sev

[ashen pulsar]

I think the shadow nearly meets the stand criteria, normal frames are actual physical objects I don’t think they are that close

[ocean geyser]

Ik the Coda confrontation is basically it but
An infested concert would be so fire
Not even for nefarious stuff, just the infested vibing

[rose estuary]

||if Ballas did actually make it to tau in the new war wouldn’t he just get obliterated by any sentients still there on arrival?||

[ocean geyser]

Probably

The sentients know Ballas is an ass
And knowing he obliterated the Origin System (and all the sentients there) just to show up doesn’t make things better

Unless he had some sort of plan to get them under control

Although with how he was doing it, it doesn’t feel like he did

[shut radish]

Who is the oldest warframe

Not release wise but lore wise

[proper barn]

Kullervo.

easy. our gay king kullervo.

@shut radish do you wanna know why?

it's cuz he was actually a original. he was made before the tenno came back.

he is the only one of gen 1 warframes

that wasn't killed.

he sees the tenno appear in the origin system.

[shut radish]

Region was having a war on who’s the oldest

[proper barn]

it's kullervo.

well @shut radish longest singular suviring warframe. it's kullervo.

[restive river]

Excalibur was the first one made

[proper barn]

@shut radish the only one you could say is older is Excal

other than that

but

[restive river]

I mean we can say others are older in terms of when they were made, just nothing specific

[proper barn]

we don't know what first means? but kullevro is like

[restive river]

Older than Kullervo I mean

[proper barn]

the only survinging gen 1.

[restive river]

Excal was the first?

[proper barn]

yee

[restive river]

Jade was til she wasn’t
Stalker still lives too
The placement of these two are difficult though as they are gen 1 frames but only Jade got an Operator

[proper barn]

Where they gen 1?

[restive river]

They have autonomy

[proper barn]

idk if we get a specific time frame.

[restive river]

Like
They had autonomy prior too

[proper barn]

oh lmao.

[restive river]

Jade was given an Operator likely to keep her in line and Stalker isn’t stated to have one and doesn’t even know what they are

[proper barn]

when i meant gen 1 i mean like

Kullervo is said to have watched all the other "failed' warframes before the operators arrive be kileld.

[restive river]

Gen 1 frames are frames that were sapient and did not require an Operator, gen 2 frames require an Operator because they are no longer sapient.

[proper barn]

that's what i mean by gen 1 not autonomy.

[restive river]

Yeah
Jade and Stalker are likely gen 1

Autonomy is a sign of gen 1, the issue is going feral but they can hang on with strong enough emotions

Like Kullervo

Iirc Kullervo witnessed when Operators were introduced, I don’t recall him having one but he may have been made somewhat before or around the same time as Jade and Stalker

[proper barn]

yee. he was already a fugtive by then.

but i just am not sure of the stalker and jade like timeline of them being made into a warframe.

[normal mountain]

Dante survived the Purge as well

[proper barn]

idk when dante was made.

if it says that i'm owned.

[normal mountain]

Loid explicitly says in one of his idles
Dante was one of the few to escape the Warframe Madness

And the Purge that followed

[proper barn]

doesn't he say the madness wasn't madness. anyway. i'm owned then.

I just remember Kullervo cuz it's said right in his arena and such.

[restive river]

From what I recall it’s mostly unclear but again, both have autonomy, one eventually got an Operator and the other doesn’t seem to know about them

[proper barn]

also it's the same kullervo.

yee.

[restive river]

Kullervo is likely the longest living frame but it’s hard to entirely say since
Duviri timeliops
Voidy untime
All that

[proper barn]

Yee.

[restive river]

Dante died(?) so he isn’t the oldest

[proper barn]

@shut radish we goit it down to like 3. or 4 i guess.

[normal mountain]

"I remember when we learned of the Warframe insurrections. Their madness, savage and sudden, justifying all the Orokin fear. All their heroic deeds were forgotten in an instant. Those like Dante who had yet to succumb became fugitives. To shelter them meant death - or glassing."

[restive river]

If we use realtime in reference to Kullervo’s stay he is likely the oldest still living, potentially alongside Stalker (unless he predates)

Excal was the first and is thus the oldest design

And paradoxically Temple is the longest frame to chronologically exist (~1998 to Night of the Naga Drums (at least))

[proper barn]

INSERRECTIONS

i still think their way so madness

just rebellion.

[restive river]

Yeah I
Forgot about Temple, they’re the oldest in a paradoxical way lol @proper barn

[proper barn]

lul

i DID THINK OF THAT.

[restive river]

10k years old at least-

[proper barn]

great skin regiment

[restive river]

Comet nap

[proper barn]

yee i know but that's not as funny.

[normal mountain]

Fair point, Dante did perish

So he doesn't qualify for oldest living

Still an old frame though

[restive river]

Temple went missing so they’re the oldest but not the oldest living

[normal mountain]

Predates the Zariman

[restive river]

No…

[normal mountain]

I was positive...

[restive river]

No frames predate the Zariman.

The frames were made in response to the sentient during the Old War
Which is after the Zariman

[proper barn]

@shut radish anyway we got it down to like 3 or 4 i guess. Dante, Kullervo, and Excal. Jade and stalker might count.

[restive river]

Don’t forget Temple

[proper barn]

I Don't think temple counts

i love temple

[normal mountain]

The Zariman's first return
I thought that was supposed to be obvious

[proper barn]

but i don't think they counts.

[restive river]

they
And I would say they count

[proper barn]

WAIT

i said she how? i don't know how i did that.

[restive river]

Cause
They did exist for 10k years

[proper barn]

i read it as they my dyselixia is killing me.

[restive river]

Lol

[proper barn]

yee.

[normal mountain]

I should've said "predates the Tenno"
That would have been clearer

[restive river]

So to recap
Excal by originally made
Temple by actual age (due to time travel)
Kullervo by still living (unknown amount of time in the void, also if Temple isn’t still around)
Stalker/Jade by still living (not in the void, no Temple)

[normal mountain]

And Stalker wins by being confirmed still alive

no, nvm, ignore me

[twin wigeon]

temple should be now dead/died in the night of naga drums?

[restive river]

Was it stated if they died?

[twin wigeon]

no but i feel like they shouldn't be alive

[restive river]

Cause they could still be alive if we don’t know their fate

[twin wigeon]

fair it has been a couple* millenia

stalker is def still alive tho?

[proper barn]

Well Temple "goes to sleep" on the comet so they can get there at the night of the Naga drums.

Now how long they lived after that? We don't know.

Also they are literally a Starman waiting on a comet

From the David bowie song.

[lilac aspen]

Clearly hiding in wait to show up primed

[proper barn]

They do become fully consumed

[twin wigeon]

yeah and then what happens to her after? she's been alive for multiple millenia just to reach the Night of Naga Drums, and if they're alive they've been alived for countless millenia

[proper barn]

By the infestation though.

[restive river]

Flare does

[proper barn]

They.

[twin wigeon]

mb fams

[restive river]

Not Temple

Lizzie makes it confusing tbf

[proper barn]

Flare is they lizzie is she which ja interesting.

[twin wigeon]

ik ;-;

[restive river]

All good

[proper barn]

The Infested guitar liking to be called she/her is so interesting.

[proper barn]

As long as your trying it's fine.

[lilac aspen]

Flare is nonbinary
Lizzie is female

[restive river]

Lizzie is :3

[twin wigeon]

temple might be the oldest frame

[proper barn]

She her guitar.

[twin wigeon]

not the original but like They've been alive the longest

:3

[restive river]

That’s what I’m saying
I’m a sense they are the longest living original frame (the og temple was never made just designed)

10k years at least is how long Temple has lived for

Granted a massive portion was on the comet but still!

[twin wigeon]

Temple Prime is probably what happened if Lizzie started devouring Orokin gold obols while rampaging in the Night

[restive river]

Their prime trailer should be their prime wrecking things on the night of the naga drums

[twin wigeon]

Or they were covered in the molten gold that dripped all around them in their blazing performance

[lilac aspen]

Which makes this significantly difficult when they are also a duo
So they is also used for saying both of them

”For the last time, Tenno, Flare uses they/them not just because they’re nonbinary, BUT BECAUSE WE ARE LITERALLY TWO VOIDLUGGERS!”

[twin wigeon]

thaym

KELA DE THAYM?

[restive river]

Meanwhile Xaku both being a multiple and one, like Lotus :]

[silk atlas]

Lizzie refers to Flare as they so not really.

[twin wigeon]

lotus is schizo, xaku is a frankenstein. theres likely a difference

[restive river]

Don’t call her that-

[lilac aspen]

Xaku is the embodiment of jumping you with the team

[twin wigeon]

The power of friendship frrr

[restive river]

So is Styanax’s 4!

[twin wigeon]

So is nidus 4?

maggots count i think :3

[restive river]

Oh also Xaku’s minds seem to somewhat be fighting for control, they are three in one body in a similar manner to Lotus, its how they got to that point that are different

[restive river]

In my heart they do

[twin wigeon]

[lilac aspen]

Part of me always sees Xaku as a frame that stuck the remains of other two frames onto them, and uses VOID to keep the parts glued together.

It’s less of three frames fighting each other, but a corpse that replaced missing pieces with other corpses and is being kept upright by the void.

[twin wigeon]

i see xaku as a name for the void tendrils that are keeping his parts and their respective abilities together

[lilac aspen]

Hence one of the idles is literally their arm just going dead and then them beating on it a few times to get it to move properly again

Kinda like if your arm just fell out of the socket in the shoulder so you had to pop it back in place

[restive river]

They’re specifically stated to be akin to a family and a composite

[restive river]

Editing one and not the other pronoun is silly

[twin wigeon]

didn't even notice i used the wrong pronouns

lordie am i gonna get canceled and doxxed

[restive river]

Xaku is specifically neither he nor she

[lilac aspen]

Banished to the Void

[twin wigeon]

Sleeping in the Cold Below?

[restive river]

I mean you’re fine, you’re clearly trying

Anyway
Xaku seems to be more of a composite of the three as one, doing their best to keep themselves together

[lilac aspen]

I like how frames have cool lore or stuff that Ballas talks about in some degree of respect, even if they annoy him in some way, in prime trailers

Meanwhile Revenant:
“What is this Fatherless apparition?”

Ballas must hate Revenant Mains

[twin wigeon]

fatherless aberration

[twin wigeon]

based ballas

[lilac aspen]

Ballas can never be based

Not when his name is Ball-ass

[twin wigeon]

he created your favorite frames by obtaining willing and unwilling participants and brutalized their minds after infecting them with the helminth infestation 😄

hella based if you asked me

[lilac aspen]

He made Jade and Stalker
I cannot call him based

[twin wigeon]

fair fair

glad he got his soul hoovered

[lilac aspen]

Where’s my Stalker Prime, Ballas

[twin wigeon]

wym? Stalker alr in his Prime

[restive river]

Baby prime when

How will that work if at all

Stalker Prime would be insane btw as a surprise release

Making stalker playable

[lilac aspen]

He’s becoming Stalker Dad
Which is effectively his umbra variant

[twin wigeon]

Flinging Scythes at people that call down jade light beams

[restive river]

We know stalkers abilities
But that could be the baby’s…

Excalibur took Stalker’s prime and that’s why he gets two

[lilac aspen]

Jade’s powers
But Stalker’s playstyle

Divine Executioner
Instead of Divine Light Angel or Dark Assassin

[restive river]

Yesss

[lilac aspen]

Waltz up on a target and just

Divine Light Smite

[restive river]

Ez augment name

[lilac aspen]

Part of me imagine the Baby to have an exalted scythe probably

Using their mother’s abilities in an offensive manner because their father said “See that target in that direction? Delete the direction.”

[ocean geyser]

I remember someone mentioning that Xaku is just 3 requiem words together

Xata
Lohk
Jahu

Xaku

[restive river]

Ye

The truth’s void form

[ocean geyser]

Speaking of

Have we figured out what Xata Fass Xata means?

In a figurative sense

[restive river]

Meanwhile the arg was khra, jahu, and xata

[ocean geyser]

Ik it literally translates to Truth Chaos Truth but yk

[restive river]

And then he dips

And puts us on the Zariman

With embodiments of the Hex?? All while he speaks to us

[ocean geyser]

Spooky

[restive river]

Very

Oh yeah Ris was used in the arg too

Also there’s requiems when Drifter takes control of the loop

[ocean geyser]

I think I saw that

It’s all of them and one we never saw before

[restive river]

I thought one was missing?

[lilac aspen]

Xata
Fass
Xata

Can’t believe the void is calling us
Fat

[ocean geyser]

LMAO

[ruby herald]

Every so often I think about this

My friend just messaged me about it and it's terrifying

Thanks if you're here

[proper barn]

EHHHH this isn't one to 1.

also

i would put aruthur as anger.

[ruby herald]

Could be yeah. The void's not one to one anyway but I also feel like Arthur could maybe be Garmi too

Mathila's husband who died offscreen

...being a lighthouse keeper would be oddly British of him lol 🤔

[proper barn]

I don't thinK duviri is supposed to like be 1 to 1 with the hex. also there are other NPCs that are also different emotions.

in duviri.

also they are like Based on book emotions lmao.

[ruby herald]

Yeah for sure just a weird parallel that stood out once I saw it

[summer marsh]

duviri is an interesting inside out-ish take on the dragon (orowyrm) fight story originating in mesopotamian mythos wherein the hero must explore the dangerous unknown to win the treasure that revitalizes the community.

“It is as though consciousness were aware that the dragon is the lower half of man, which indeed and in truth is the case.” - Carl Jung

[ruby herald]

Huh interesting. Didn't realize that connection but it makes sense!

[summer marsh]

dragons are an amalgamation of our ancient enemies when our ancestors were smaller hominids who lived in trees: birds of prey (winged), prowling beasts (fangs) and snakes (scales and overall serpentine features). so a serpentine flying fire-breathing reptile is as jordan peterson (as disagreeable as he is) puts it “the imagistic equivalent of predator”

[ruby herald]

Kinda lost me, it was just something interesting about the character art having some parallels that make sense with the drifter story, go off though 💪

[proper barn]

OH NO

[proper barn]

Not the werido not the woman hater. He's always wrong.

[summer marsh]

something about a broken clock. regardless this was less his take and more him regurgitating jung and others

[proper barn]

then use Jung

Don't credit this monster of a person.

@summer marsh I feel like being too mean to you.

I'm sorry.

I'm not sorry about being upset or calling Jordan Peterson terrible person but I am sorry if I seemed mad at you specifically.

[ruby herald]

Honestly Jordan Peterson thinks I shouldn't exist or be able to talk on this stuff based on what's in my pants...does make me a little less inclined to listen than crediting Jung would

Not your fault and likewise sorry if that seems a lot

[proper barn]

Yeah.

[ruby herald]

Thanks Vinny I wasn't sure how to bring it up 🫂

[proper barn]

I just wouldn't mention Peterson at all and his wrongness about penguins and lobsters.

[summer marsh]

no no all good! i stopped typing cause my cousin needed the wifi password. i agree with pretty much every criticism and insult one could hurl at peterson. that being said that doesn’t affect that when he says something that rings true be it his original thought or someone else’s i’m not beneath giving credit when credit’s due. there are countless authors and speakers who have said the worst things (i.e richard dawkins) and still contributed notably to knowledge and theory. i’m of the opinion that thoughts don’t become more or less valuable based on the person offering the insight

[summer marsh]

no need to apologize

[proper barn]

I feel like crediting someone when his ideas aren't revolutionary or even new when you could credit someone else is werid though.

[ruby herald]

👍 For sure for sure thank you for the reassurance ❤️ It's weird it does a strange kind of damage by association like I totally checked out and admittedly got lost in some flashbacks from people who said the other stuff

[proper barn]

Like a high-schooler could figure out that we beat monsters in stories cus we afraid of big scary animals.

[summer marsh]

i was directly quoting him when i put the quote marks. if we were not to credit authors and speakers as punishment for their moral conduct (or lack thereof) much of critical theory would cease to exist. i understand the repulsion at the name but this was not an endorsement

[proper barn]

Idk I just don't think we gotta hand it to um or ever credit them or talk about them ever.

I get this though.

It's a defensible position.

[ruby herald]

I getcha both. 🫂 It did put me in some mild PTSD flashbacks (I'm okay) so it is a weird consideration to make after a while but I admire that too ❤️

[proper barn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/285849268257030145/1354922639658848486/caption-1-1.gif

[strange turtle]

And sometimes she’s >:3

[tall echo]

She's always groovy, and never glooby

[rich stump]

Fetus prime

[restive river]

Not a fetus anymore tho

[strange turtle]

I just realised, poor babyframe and stalker and jade

Imagine knowing you can be more but not being able to improve yourself unless you get lucky enough to meet some magic guy who’s most likely not alive anymore

Like Stalker/Jade probably wouldn’t be that interested in it but that’d still be higher ability to protect Sirion and whoever else

[runic bronze]

huh

context im confused/gen

[ocean geyser]

Yeah I don’t get it either lmao

[strange turtle]

Prime

And Lavos Prime

[hollow siren]

why would they necessarily want to be Primed

[runic bronze]

magical girl transformation

[silk atlas]

Stalker still absolutely hates the Orokin. He's gone off the grid, so it's extremely unlikely that he's going to be found by any remotely important people, not to mention he's now blessed by Jade

[sacred swift]

Stalker got two massive buffs from Hunhow/Jade, who cares about getting primed when you can obviously just get powered up by literally anything else. including the bad guys or even another warframe

[hollow siren]

Besides, Stalker in-universe is obscenely strong and highly skilled, us one-shotting him in gameplay is pretty much reversed when talking about canon

So it's not like he's in urgent need of any power-ups

[pale cedar]

Stalker in universe couldn't handle getting shot in the leg which literally every other Warframe can

[silk atlas]

Pretty sure every other Warframe can't handle that. I know a rocket to the face is a pretty big step up in that regard but that Nova was GONE

[hollow siren]

He was holding his child and deflecting the bullets, not that hard to imagine he lost his balance from that.
Besides, that is his actual leg on his actual body. It's not like Transference where we may "feel" the Warframe's wounds but we're not really damaged by it

[pale cedar]

Wasn't that a bomb to the chest not face?

[silk atlas]

Still

[hollow siren]

in-universe our powerscaling as a warframe hasn't really gone that far from Oldframe compared to how far it's gone gameplay-wise

[pale cedar]

Maybe Stalker hasn't modded his frame properly

Maybe just like the Hex he's also still just learning

[hollow siren]

No, he just had to simultaneously perfectly deflect an escalatingly fast gatling gun while approaching it and keeping his newborn child secure, while also having to think of how he's even going to escape after that

[pale cedar]

We've had to hold stuff while getting shot at by way more people than him

[silk atlas]

The dude who's devoted his entire life to killing the Tenno?

[pale cedar]

You can devote your life to doing something and still not actually be good at it

[hollow siren]

But he is canonically extremely good at it

[pale cedar]

where is it actually said he is good at it?

[silk atlas]

Even then, there's the cinematic trailers that show that the Warframe's aren't exactly the effortless room clearers we see in the gameplay when we control them

[pale cedar]

True

[hollow siren]

He has the heads of many Warframes as trophies, the Corpus know him as "The Tenno Killer", his weapons have been specifically designed to counter Warframes, which he could only really do if he knows how to kill them beforehand

[silk atlas]

That one Rhino in TNW gets mopped by a whole two Sentients

At least if I remember the scene right

[hollow siren]

The only time we see him actually beaten by Tenno is the flashback showing Jade saving him, and that's from before he had even fully gotten to be in action as a Warframe

[pale cedar]

And when we pulled the sword out forcing him to flee

Or well the frame

[hollow siren]

yeah, Hunhow's short-circuiting kinda messed him up

[tall echo]

He's inside an orphix field

[ocean geyser]

Honk shoo zone

[lilac aspen]

Let’s be real here
They’re super alien soldiers but they still have an anatomy

Stalker getting a big bullet (probably designed with harming warframes in mind) in his leg would make him reasonably fall over. Especially since he doesn’t have a void child puppeting his body to keep moving

Not to mention he was previously fighting through a lot of corpus before that firing squad. In game he was made invulnerable but in universe he was taking hits to protect his child

[wise quarry]

will warframe finale be Olemedi vs Man in the wall?

[lilac aspen]

The Warframe final will be Tenno going

“You lost Wally, because you refused to understand these Frames of War.” and proceeds to steal Wally’s fingers.

Honestly I don’t even know what our final will be with Warframe

Feels like DE has plenty of lore to feed us to extend the time before the inevitable finale

[tall echo]

No

[woven coyote]

Clearly clem and john prodman appear and beat wally that's how it ends

[pale cedar]

Warframe ends when I say it ends

[rose estuary]

What will even happen after the finale will the game just not get major updates anymore?

[lilac aspen]

Nah
We just Warframe 2

Call of Clem

[rose estuary]

Also in the new war ||with the first section where we play as kahl it takes place in the plains of eidolon right?||

[hollow siren]

Yes

[pale cedar]

Yes

[tall echo]

Nah they show up, it gets revealed that they're the player characters of steve and rebb and they reveal warframe 2

[lilac aspen]

Kahl of Clem

[twin wigeon]

Imagine we end at the devils triad and then DE announces Warframe 2

[silk atlas]

But why.