lore-discussion

[restive river]

I’m tired atm so I can only remember 2
Rell, who we helped rest
And iirc Gara who blew herself up

Whichever one the Lotus mourned, they died

Maybe

[strange plinth]

the mirage in hidden messages?

[restive river]

Tenno deaths happen so infrequently it’s really hard to know what does it, Rell likely died from age but
We don’t really know iirc

[vale rivet]

If we feed the tyralysts enough archon shades can we revive it?

[restive river]

Yesss

[strange plinth]

theoretically, but why would we

[snow sable]

If you consider how many 'Frames' we have recovered, several Tenno have died and left the frames out there

[lilac aspen]

Not necessarily
It can easily be explained as the Tenno losing their frame and going

“Shit, Helminth build me another.”

[restive river]

You’re forgetting the part where there was both a period of time where the frames didnt need the tenno and the tenno took a big nap after toppling an empire.

[lilac aspen]

That too

[restive river]

We only have 3 confirmed tenno deaths from memory

Also the Orokin did just leave all their stuff around :p

[strange plinth]

imagine if you had to do this sometimes

[lilac aspen]

The Warframes are their own person
And it’s also possible to function normally even when your Tenno is asleep

Jade for example

Who put her Tenno to sleep

[unique talon]

So some of them are not fully pupped by the infested

[vale rivet]

Chroma well his Tenno is sleeping:full gremblin

[restive river]

None are pupated by the infestation, all are infested people

[restive river]

He wasn’t being controlled by a tenno iirc

[lilac aspen]

The Infested don’t really puppet them
It’s along the lines of the Orokin torturing them and the fact they’re not really human now (I have no mouth but I must scream) that slowly drives them mad

[strange plinth]

infested hive seems to not touch the warframes for one reason or another, though we know it can based on some Lizzie dialogue
the mesa in patient zero is the only one i can think of that was being controlled by the infestation

[unique talon]

Pupped like mutalist mesa

[lilac aspen]

The Tenno keeps them anchored
But they can anchor themselves sometimes

[restive river]

Rare case, we don’t really see a bunch of puppeted frames now do we

[unique talon]

"that's not a Tenno, it's a warframe pupped by the infested flesh"

[unique talon]

I mean, koumei is a literal puppet

[restive river]

Not really purposefully mind you
And in a seemingly different way at times, it seems dependent on strong emotions

[restive river]

Puppet themed does not mean puppeted by the infestation.

[lilac aspen]

Puppeteered Mesa seemed to require a lot of work from Alad V to make happen

Which explains why we don’t see more of them

[unique talon]

Basically a dog with his Collar

[lilac aspen]

We saw Alad V do it once and we shut that down real fast

[restive river]

Alad’s used to cut warframes up too, he has an idea of how they function

[snow sable]

What about Limbo?

[restive river]

Not a full picture like
At all
He admits it doesn’t make sense or something along those lines

[restive river]

Unknown

[unique talon]

Miscalculations

[lilac aspen]

“I miscalculated ”

[strange plinth]

limbo mathed too hard and scattered himself across the system
whether he was tenno-controlled at the time is unknown

[restive river]

We don’t know if it was Limbo himself or his Operator or both or

[lilac aspen]

Ordis was simping hard regarding Limbo’s equations

[restive river]

He do be code

[unique talon]

Well, we have characters like gara who volunteered to be part of the warframe projet

[restive river]

Okay? Someone can do that and still have a tenno

There’s two generations of Warframes
Generation 1, no tenno control, went feral
Generation 2, tenno controlled, used to topple the empire

A generation 1 frame could be remade for gen 2

[unique talon]

How about Kullervo, Nokko, Koumei, Sevagoth, Dante

[lilac aspen]

Gara could be piloted by a Tenno

It’s just the volunteer to become such did not care if she became a war machine piloted by a child

Making the Orokin go “Holy shit, she’s based.”

[restive river]

Kullervo is sapient
Nokko is unknown
Koumei is unknown
Sevagoth is unknown
Dante was sapient, in fact he was the smartest frame, he wrote

[unique talon]

That's a part of the lore that I missed out, what's that Warframe generation?

[lilac aspen]

Generation is essentially just

The first warframes were just helminth super soldiers without a Tenno to pilot them

“Second generation” was them having Tenno pilot them

[restive river]

The Orokin made the frames to fight against the sentients, they worked well for a while but eventually lost it
Then the tenno came along and they wanted to use them to control their shelved creations, it worked great

[strange plinth]

not official terms, but the gen 1s were made, most went feral, and were shelved
rhino prime codex entry happens, and they learn the tenno can calm the frames, starting the gen 2 wave

[restive river]

Kullervo got banished around the time the tenno were found or were being introduced to control frames

[unique talon]

Dante could use his book to talk, so it looks like he didn't exactly needed a Tenno

[lilac aspen]

Sevagoth was probably sapient but it can easily be explained as a Tenno using the shadow and having it autopilot when Sevagoth got lost in the void

And then left the warframe to get another one from Helminth

[restive river]

He got that book later when he went to the labs
Nor did he. Talk, he wrote.

[unique talon]

How could they lose?

[restive river]

Also ofc he didnt have a tenno, he was a gen 1 frame

[lilac aspen]

Very easily

They’re not indestructible

[unique talon]

I mean.. iron skin?

[restive river]

Sentients are really powerful and the Tenno, equipped with walking warcrimes wiped them out swiftly, before they could react

Like the Orokin were losing the war lol

[ocean geyser]

Except Nihil for some reason

[lilac aspen]

They also equipped the Tenno with the equivalent of our modern weaponry because the Sentients could merge with/alter high tech

[restive river]

Balls made her to spite him

[ocean geyser]

Yeah

[restive river]

Can’t forget the Lotus being the mastermind behind dismantling the empire too!

The Orokin are really good at making or altering things and then said things backfire on them in the biggest way

[lilac aspen]

Orokin making three separate super weapons and failing to control them each time

Infestation
Sentients
Warframes

They really were banking on third times a charm

[strange plinth]

didn't make the infestation just cultivated it

[lilac aspen]

“Make” as in they developed the current variant after tampering with whatever previous variant

[unique talon]

I can particularly see Warframes that could handle them pretty easily I see, like mag, they're machines just tear them apart, Grendel: NHOM , Nidus and even xaku

[ocean geyser]

On another note i hate how the Corrupted (and by extension the Neural Sentry) hardly have any lore

Cause I genuinely wanna know how enemy factions handled Void Fissures

Because you’d expect to quarantine the area but ngl they just keep sending goobers after us to kill us

[lilac aspen]

And then Alad V tampered with that variant

[unique talon]

Since the void is their Greatest fear

[lilac aspen]

Void is their weakness because the Orokin had the intelligence to make it their weakness deliberately

[ocean geyser]

The one Archimedian, actually

[unique talon]

So why not literally bring their weaknesses?

[strange plinth]

doesn't seem like the higher-ups care much about the fodder
worm queen has a whole thing about sending troops into lua despite the neural sentry taking everyone she sends

[ocean geyser]

True

[restive river]

Void no place nice

[unique talon]

That's the equivalent of bringing back the sabertooths, our old predators

[lilac aspen]

But then they didn’t expect the Sentients to go “We don’t care” and still show up despite risking their health

Which it did mess up the Sentients that came back to the origin system

[strange plinth]

they were meant to decay entirely in the void, preventing their return altogether
but they used praghasa as a shield, risking her to make sure they made it, though they were still scarred by the travel

[lilac aspen]

Tbh they aren’t really our old predators, not when we just point spears at them and use numbers

[ocean geyser]

I was sort of having the idea that factions would isolate the area a void fissure was in, then come in after the fissure subsides to clear out all the Corrupted

But obviously the higher ups consider “kill Tenno” to be more important in the event they also show up during a fissure

[lilac aspen]

They’re our old competition when it came to hunting

[unique talon]

#you get the Idea#

[ocean geyser]

If you’re trying to strike through you use a tilde twice on each side lmao

[unique talon]

What?

[ocean geyser]

were you trying to do this?

[unique talon]

Yes XD

[ocean geyser]

Yeah then you’d use a tilde twice lmao

~~ these things

[unique talon]

like this?

I see.. now back to the void topic

What in the actual hell, would we offer in exchange for a god entity (wally)

For these powers that were "given" to us?

[strange plinth]

our light

whatever he interpreted by that, it isn't what we meant
(the globelight we were holding)
Operator: "Hey, lose your light? Here, you can take mine."
Wally: "Thanks, kiddo. I think I will."

[unique talon]

What was he talking about anyway?

Did he indirectly mean "soul"?

[ocean geyser]

I think he knew what we meant
We just don’t know what he meant
Sort of

[unique talon]

Or some sort of?

[ocean geyser]

There’s also Tagfer’s theory

[unique talon]

What's his theory?

Or Maybe he was just being sarcastic

[hollow siren]

"It wants to be a part of what we have, but it doesn't know how. So everything it does ends up half-assed. You get me?"

[ocean geyser]

Yeah

[unique talon]

I still believe it is something related with soul

Indifference means literally the complete opposite of "love"

[lilac aspen]

Clearly our flash light

[ocean geyser]

Basically Wally wants to be involved in what the Origin System is getting up to, but given how he is, he doesn’t get it done in a reasonable or peaceful way

Or maybe he just doesn’t care how he gets involved

Could be the latter, really

[lilac aspen]

Solve Warframe by giving Wally a flashlight

[ocean geyser]

Inb4 wally can’t use it because he’s missing a fingie

[lilac aspen]

Truly

[unique talon]

I mean, thanks to Albrecht he already got out of his dimension

[unique talon]

"WHERE IS MY FINGER KIDDO?"

[ocean geyser]

Lmao

But yeah, i think we can just tweak Tagfer’s theory to “Wally wants stuff and doesn’t care how many people get hurt for him to get that.”

[unique talon]

His motivations are relatable

[ocean geyser]

Lmao??

[unique talon]

Bro

Imagine someone stealing your.. 🍌.. and use it as a generator

I would completely be pissed off

Not to mention the pain he might still feeling

[ocean geyser]

Gotta wonder what sort of deal he was going to offer Albrecht

Although I’d imagine it’d be just “I give you: thing… I get: to do whatever i want”

As usual

[scenic coral]

It's been eating away at me for a while now, why does Dagath have Kaithe Manifestations for her 4 when she doesn't have any relation to Duviri? I am aware she formerly had Rakhali, but from what I know, Rakhali was an actual horse.

[ocean geyser]

DE didn’t have any other horse models

[scenic coral]

That's what I was imagining as well but it is unfortunate

[ocean geyser]

That said i feel like Dagath should’ve had an ability that lets her ride her honses

I don’t even remember what they do
Run at people?

[scenic coral]

Nothing a little Augment can't fix lol

[scenic coral]

Yup, they charge forward and Armor Strip

[ocean geyser]

Truee
Then we’d finally have a new “exalted vehicle ability” frame

Yareli is KDrive frame
Titania’s the Archwing frame
And yeah

[scenic coral]

I believe the reasoning behind her not getting to ride Rakhali was that the Kaithe wouldn't fit in existing tilesets, but I've seen Necramechs fit so why not a horse?

[hollow siren]

still waiting for Exalted Necramech.......

[ocean geyser]

I joked about that once
We need Exalted Atomicycle too

[scenic coral]

Biker Frame when

[lilac aspen]

“Get in the Necramech, Shinji.”

[hollow siren]

Uriel as ghost rider trust

[unique talon]

Ghost rider? Is that what you want?

[ocean geyser]

Same braincell
I fw it actually

DE WHY DONT WE HAVE A FLAMING ATOMICYLE ACTUALLY

[scenic coral]

Closest we got is Revenant with the Alternate Helmet

Vania Helmet it was

[unique talon]

Also who suggested the necramech as an exalted?

[lilac aspen]

Uriel the Orokin showing up on an atomicycle
“Get on loser, we’re going Orokin killing.”

[unique talon]

What part in the lore would that make sense?

[scenic coral]

Albrecht managed to make a Nuclear Reactor Frame, I think he can make a Necramech one lmao

[ocean geyser]

Ngl
Speaking of Qorvex
I feel like a concrete necramech thingy would have been fire on him

We need more mech skins, actually

[unique talon]

Also, from terms of gameplay and actual lore

[scenic coral]

I was imagining the Frame becoming the corn on the cob from the Necramech and expanding itself into the Necramech form

[unique talon]

Does frost receiving cold damage would make any sense?

Or saryn vulnerable to toxin

[scenic coral]

I'd like to imagine they would be resistant to it but unfortunately we gotta separate lore from gameplay for balancing reasons

I don't see Nidus being resistant to Infestation either lol

[lilac aspen]

Lore wise?
Probably immune

But gameplay wise they gotta balance it

[scenic coral]

Albeit he is a different strain

[lilac aspen]

Lore wise Lavos over here can transmute people into other things

[violet storm]

Javi is the perfect example

[lilac aspen]

Bro could just grab the boss and turn them into a pile of goo

[scenic coral]

Snake Friend

[violet storm]

Specifically the left hand snake on Lavos

[scenic coral]

Nef better watch out unless he wants to be turned into a mushroom by Lavos

[violet storm]

The other was borne of his own flesh

[unique talon]

Something tells me that The Warframes augments are some sort of way to "canonize" their true power in their respective lore

Like jade with the jade light

[lilac aspen]

One is a wise teacher and the other is more stern

A.k.a
“My student, it is time to manipulate the elements to defeat your opponents.”

“REDUCE THEM TO ATOMS!”

[scenic coral]

I like to imagine in-lore Warframes have access to all the Abilities and Augments at the same time

[hollow siren]

A family can be a man, his teacher who's a snake and his other snake who's also himself

[unique talon]

Instead of lavos, doesn't nova already do that?

[scenic coral]

Lavos: "I can only rely on the realest one I know, myself."

[lilac aspen]

Nova causes total annihilation

A.k.a she causes the atoms to CEASE

[violet storm]

Lavos is one of the recorded instances pre collapse of a formerly orokin loyal Warframe killing a bunch of orokin.

[lilac aspen]

Because that’s what happens when anti-matter and matter touches

[scenic coral]

Lavos on the other snake hand I believe rearranges atoms

[violet storm]

didn’t nova turn a railpirate into the fuel source of an antimatter drive?

[ashen pulsar]

Damn

[lilac aspen]

She also spammed so many portals to quick travel through the vents

[proper barn]

Ne

[proper barn]

Kaithes are kinda like a Unicorn/skeleton horse that's why.

[proper barn]

The old man is Cold and the women has some posion. The 2 proto frames. They say they both need to build up a restiance.

[lilac aspen]

I-
I think they were joking

As an excuse to
Destroy some beds together
Y’know
Warframe wrestle

[proper barn]

I know what they where talking about

It's not a joke though they are actually posiones cold.

There are real side effects for being a warframe.

[feral cape]

What

[summer marsh]

i do wanna add this line from Angels of The Zariman that goes

“You have noticed it's not just the Reliquary that can work miracles with the Void, yes? I wonder… do you even know just how brightly you shine?”

[dire mountain]

Hey what do we know about the pre-techrot Höllvanian government

[main spade]

Not much I’m afraid.

[spring cape]

Do we know what happened to all the people Nihil glassed during the Glassmaker event? I'm wondering specifically what happened to Gral, the Grineer. I'm not sure if he's just stuck in a glass shell now, or if his mind was freed afterward or what.

[proper barn]

Only Nora was like "saved" the rest are probably still in the weave maybe we released some of them but we can't find like the millions of people he glassed.

[spring cape]

I admit, I wanted to possibly make a piece of fanart of Gral where his consciousness broke free after Nihil was defeated, wound up in the Void, and made it to Duviri. It just wouldn't make much sense if Gral's mind was still somewhere in the weave.

[proper barn]

he was probably freed

i would say.

[spring cape]

So I suppose it'd work. If I may, here's what I had in mind: Gral's mind makes it to Duviri after drifting through the void. Due to conceptual embodiment (the Void making things real), Gral lands on one of the outermost islands of Duviri and goes about creating a small settlement there, populated by living floofs.

[proper barn]

sure why not

[twin wigeon]

i think the ppl nihil glassed are dead

[proper barn]

well

they where put in glass objects

[twin wigeon]

its not confirmed i don't think

[proper barn]

the whole point of glassing

[twin wigeon]

they were petrified

[proper barn]

is it doesn't "kill" people the same way.

cuz it's what they do to turn people into cephlaons

they just didn't do the last step of putting them into celphalons.

[restive river]

Physically they are dead
Their minds were uploaded, glassed, cephalized

[restive river]

Iirc they do appear during the boss fight

[proper barn]

maybe not cephalized.

cuz we have him in a jar

[restive river]

I mean
He’s a cephalon now?

[proper barn]

but his mind ins't changed at all.

[restive river]

Or was one

[twin wigeon]

he is a cephalon but a very constrained cephalon

[restive river]

Being a cephalon doesn’t automatically change one’s mind, but being a cephalon allows someone to alter your mind, memories and add precepts

[twin wigeon]

trapped in his spooky jar pillar

[restive river]

Look at his jar
The symbol of it is likely the abstract cephalon representation of his mind, similar to how the other cephalons have

Heck it’s heavily cracked, I like to think we did that
Beat him so bad we cracked his mind

And that’s totally why he only says the same couple voicelines when we tap on the glass

[twin wigeon]

i don't think its cracked its just normally fragmented like the other cephs

[restive river]

That’s what i mean

[twin wigeon]

small space = small amount of memories

[restive river]

And that usually represents some amount of damage

[twin wigeon]

❤️

Cephalon Samodeus is the riven cephalon right?

[proper barn]

yes

[twin wigeon]

its sad that de never finished his lore

[restive river]

Wym

His lore is he made rivens and likely all mods

[humble sierra]

Ngl it would be neat for him to have a voice when rolling rivens

[candid elm]

Unless they had smth to introduce them proper it'd be weird for a random voice to start talking

And annoying after a while of mass rerolls

[restive river]

Iirc he introduces himself when we got our first riven

[candid elm]

Did he?

I

Don't remember tbh

[restive river]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/dialogue-samodeus/

[unique talon]

So.. canonically speaking: What does the Tenno do in their free time?

When no stupid faction is doing some mess in the origin system for us to fix?

[pale cedar]

Sits in a chair

But the factions never rest

[unique talon]

"operator, we don't have any chairs"

[proper barn]

you literally have 2 chairs. you have the transfersance chair and the like werid Couch in the Personal quaters. But i guess we do things that anyone with free time would do play with plushies play like pinball i guess. Eat pizza.

[unique talon]

Index I guess?

[digital grail]

Dunk on vor for the 10000000000th time

[ocean geyser]

The Drifter’s having infinitely more fun than the Operators are i think

Ngl I understand why the other Tenno from the Zariman aren’t directly involved in the story but i think it’d be cool to see them again

Although they’re probably still asleep on Lua

[tall echo]

Ah yes, leaving the tenno on the place under constant attack from both main factions, that's definitely the case

[ocean geyser]

🤷‍♂️ idk lmfao
Ours was the only pod we saw opened
The lotus’s chamber is there too anyway
So either there or a secret location DE hasn’t revealed yet

[hollow siren]

well when we returned there later on all the other pods were gone IIRC.

[ocean geyser]

Fr?

[pale cedar]

I swear you can still see all the pods

[tall echo]

P sure lotus says in an inbox message that they're gonna start waking up the other tenno now that lua is no longer safe

[pale cedar]

This is only inbox message you get

Inbox message:
YOU'RE ALIVE!

Operator,

I am sorry, the Stalker, he suppressed my systems, I tried to warn you, but could only watch as he attacked.

I'M SO ECSTATIC— relieved you survived.

By the way, after the fight, I found this broken sword in the lower chambers. I almost tossed it out the airlock, but I figured you might want it. It has been added to your inventory, along with this sigil the Lotus left for you.

Glad to have you back,
Ordis

[tall echo]

Thanks for keeping the best regular sword ordis

Good bot

[true bobcat]

Ordis is pleased to help the Operator!

[digital grail]

I forgot ordis is a bot here

[tall echo]

He's a good bot

[ocean geyser]

I find it intriguing that Techrot enemies and Infested will fight each other if put in the Simulacrum together
Which I guess makes sense since the two strains are likely so different from one another

[tall echo]

Because they're different factions code-wise

[hollow siren]

yeah that might just be from how factions are coded

they're not a sub-faction of Infested, they're a fully separate faction

[strange turtle]

Spear Fishing, conservation, listening to music, mining, skateboarding, maybe flying

Also ig dancing, training/sparring, Lunaro and Conclave, playing and going for walks with the pets, meditation

As for maybe stuff, normal hobbies, messing with abilities, hanging around with the non-relay syndicates

[tall echo]

Double corrupted enemies in void void fissures are hostile towards regular corrupted too, the faction code is extremely simple

[hollow siren]

Ludoplex too

[tall echo]

The fact that void void fissures are a thing is so funny

[ocean geyser]

Void squared

Well beyond that
It’s really interesting how the Techrot excels at infesting things via tech
But the Infested of the future only had an affinity for tech one Alad made the Mutalist strain

[jaunty siren]

with or without warframes, can a tenno beat kratos

[ocean geyser]

I feel like they’d need a warframe to pull that off
Void powers are neat but the Tenno themselves are squishy

[tall echo]

goes invisible and invincible and teleports away

[ocean geyser]

Lmfao

[tall echo]

Kratos isn't particularly good at or equipped for ranged combat, so a tenno could win by just not letting him get close

[ocean geyser]

Considering how good we are at moving around, that makes sense

Bullet jump 49 times, void dash 56 times

Can’t hit us

[hexed oxide]

kullervo tap 1

[tall echo]

Operator mode can't bullet jump but ye

[ocean geyser]

That’s why i said void dash

[tall echo]

Just slinging away while slinging projectiles at him

[ocean geyser]

(Although I probably said it wrong)

[tall echo]

Used to be dash, now it's sling

[ocean geyser]

I sees

[digital grail]

Operator getting shot out a slingshot like a freaking angry bird

[ocean geyser]

LMAO

[ashen pulsar]

what do you think is the scariest frame to see if you're a corpus getting called in or something

or a scaldra

[digital grail]

For scaldra it could literally be any one of them

[ashen pulsar]

imo its oraxia, although they are all terrifying to see as an opponent

[digital grail]

Especially if its rapidly ripping through friends

[ashen pulsar]

yeah

[digital grail]

Titainia is pretty scary since she's fast and hard to see imo

[ashen pulsar]

im just thinking of the way oraxia would do it.

you can't see her half the time

spiders start exploding out of your friends

even if you get as far as you can, she can get to you in a second

if you don't die immediately and somehow escape, you are left dying from her toxin

[digital grail]

Oh wait nekros

[ashen pulsar]

ohhh that's a good one

necromancy is probably a nightmare

y'know, I kinda expected tenno to be more remorseful about killing scaldra

[digital grail]

Alot of frames are baseline terrifying to see/not see because alot of them can singlehandedly rip through thousands

[ashen pulsar]

cuz scaldra soldiers could literally just be people who applied to help their families or smth

[digital grail]

No isnt scaldra a cult?

[strange turtle]

Grendel

[strange turtle]

Kinda?

[ashen pulsar]

they're a "private military contractor"

[strange turtle]

Like they’re pretty religious, presumably especially the leadership given that Minerva called them a cult but it’s not like the only thing they’ve got going for them

[ashen pulsar]

I think most of them aren't good people but there are probably people there who desperately needed a job or smth

[normal mountain]

For Corpus, specifically
Protea
Imagine seeing your friends obliterated by Parvos Granum's legendary bodyguard

[strange turtle]

Like Neci got to join, and there was that one kid from the story Minerva told

[ashen pulsar]

oh true

they're dualist right

yeah, found a viktor quote: "Stormfall unit, my children, as you prepare to descend from on high, take a moment to read the Prayer to Sol which you can of course find on your Credo card. We are not dying in a state of sin today."

[pale cedar]

Hollvanias flag is actually Sol and Lua

[ashen pulsar]

oh yeah

[twin wigeon]

We are NOT dying in a state of sin today 💅

[strange turtle]

(They were in fact, dying in a state of sin today)

[digital grail]

Atleast they die quick

They probably dont feel a thing

[twin wigeon]

Technically they’ve already died in a state of sin for a while now

[restive river]

Which is likely dualism lol

[pale cedar]

Yeah

[tall echo]

At the very least an early version

[pale cedar]

Sol and Lua in game when DE?

[twin wigeon]

It is dualism

[restive river]

Yeah

[restive river]

Equinox:

[pale cedar]

True

[twin wigeon]

Star Chart:

[pale cedar]

Star Child

[tall echo]

I like my equinox fashun :)

[restive river]

Drifter: I've never heard of Tláloc before. Did he come before Lua and Sol? Before dualism?

[pale cedar]

Isn't Death also mentioned as a character?

[tall echo]

As an aspect of lua

[restive river]

^

[pale cedar]

How can it be Dualism if there's 3?

[tall echo]

._.

[twin wigeon]

Stop you reminded me of Sacrifice Ordis

Aspect of Lua, as in not as godly as Sol and Lua

[tall echo]

Aspect of lua as in literally a part of lua

[twin wigeon]

A part but not the whole

So it’s still dualism

[tall echo]

Yeah like how my hand is a part of me

[twin wigeon]

Or like how the Reliquary Drive is a part of Wally

[pale cedar]

Or like how Wally keeps cutting himself to fight us

[twin wigeon]

Uh? Void tears?

[pale cedar]

Murmur are pieces of Wally

[restive river]

So Lua, and likely Sol
Has 3 aspects

Death is one of them for Lua

[tall echo]

The mobile bits are suspiciously void angel-like...

[pale cedar]

Well they are both from the Void

[tall echo]

Angels are seemingly from wally in a way

[restive river]

Salem: Once in a while. We used to go back home for Solstice. Now that I do miss. Decorating the star-tree, crowning Sol, little kids going door to door dressed as Lua’s Three Aspects, roasting the bird… it’s sentimental, but I genuinely love it.

It’s unknown what conceptually embodied the ghost crew, it was either their memories and strong emotions or Wally
But either way they fed off the finger, which is a direct link to Wally

[tall echo]

Why couldn't they copy that one really weird welsh(?) tradition

[restive river]

Alternate history

[tall echo]

Yeah but

Alternate version of the tradition

[restive river]

Tru

But also Eleanor ain’t welsh
Or
Welsh equivalent

[pale cedar]

I'm surprised feeding off us doesn't have the same effect because we also have a piece of Wally

[tall echo]

I forgot the name but bc I remember it being really hard to pronounce I'm sure it was welsh

[tall echo]

We probably radiate clean void while his fingie radiates polluted void

[restive river]

The way I see it as the piece within us gets refracted through us, we act as a sort of lens that alters it
It’s still there but when it “escapes” us (like light through a lens) it’s more us than him

We’re “tinting” his light and making it our own

[restive river]

Our DNA is saturated in void :]

It’s how the Coda track us down

[twin wigeon]

Isn’t Eleanor hollevanian

[restive river]

No

[twin wigeon]

We got codas locking onto our void signature

[tall echo]

Brit

El and arthur are brits

[restive river]

I don’t believe any of the Hex are from Hollvania, including the round table

[pale cedar]

Are any of the Hextable actually Hollvanian?

[restive river]

I’m hoping that the new protos (that arent roathe) will be Hollvanian, or at least one will

[twin wigeon]

Yk it’s kinda weird that Eleanor has an accent despite not speaking with her mouth

[restive river]

Its possible they don’t want to make any proto from Hollvania to not directly point at Hollvania being an analog for an existing country

[restive river]

You have some form of an accent
When you speak your inner monologue it would, in theory, match how you speak

Or how you think you speak

[pale cedar]

Isn't all depictions of telepathy with the same voice though?

[twin wigeon]

I wonder what’s roathe’s backstory

[pale cedar]

Find out December

[restive river]

Probably called out the orokin or albrecht

[tall echo]

My inner monologue is regularly interrupted by sevagoth's lullaby

[restive river]

What’s he doing in there?

[tall echo]

Partying

[twin wigeon]

Farming*

Reap and Sow-ing to be exact

[tall echo]

Nah I got seva dancing with his shadow in my head like how that one animated dracula dances with his cape

[twin wigeon]

At least sevy don’t gotta worry about stepping on his shadows toes

[tall echo]

Please help it's very difficult to think

[twin wigeon]

Where does albrects body come from?

[tall echo]

Yuvan

[twin wigeon]

Fair enough

[digital grail]

Walmart

[frank slate]

Wall-mart

[strange turtle]

What was it?

[proper barn]

@twin wigeon at one point his body was gotten from a yuvan but he refuses to take the kuva since the Void incendent. He only got back his hearing site and voice cuz loid used cloned flesh/organs and medicine to heal him.

[violet storm]

Would explain why his voice sounds the way it does.

[pale cedar]

He actually didn't refuse Kuva straight away

He makes it very clear he refused it over time

[twin wigeon]

I meant it like his body looks more human than yuvan

Actually nevermind

[pale cedar]

He got labgrown skin

But the concept of Kuva he didn't give up straight away which he makes very clear

[woven coyote]

Yuvans are human btw

Basically just the fancy name for human sacrifice

[lucid smelt]

Is there any reason why warframes look the way they do? Like is it just aesthetic or is it because the warframes have their own sort of personality, often coming from real people and its expressive in appearance?

Idk I just had a random thought and was like "why are they gendered, why do they have distinct looks" because knowing the orokin they should all be white and gold and look the same

[misty salmon]

Some of it was that the Orokin had an aesthetic preference for uniqueness and asymmetry, some of it was various levels of intentional design (form following function, or Gara being a glass warrior to piss of Nihil), and some of it was just odd reactions between the host and the helminth (occasionally to piss off Ballas). The sexual dimorphism/gender thing is probably just an artifact of the underlying human host, or keeping the fancy super soldiers at least somewhat human looking.

[woven coyote]

Also they do dislike the whole looking the same thing because it reminds them of the grineer, who were slaves
Part of the reasoning for making the queens outcasts was that they were twins and so looked the same and so looked like clones, and you cant have orokin who look like clones

[misty salmon]

Though the idea that the actual appearance of the warframe could be completely disconnected from its ability set.... now I want something with Titania's abilities that looks like Grendel cue Flight of the Bumblebee

[woven coyote]

Lol

[lucid smelt]

Its quite interesting-

Thanks folks 🫶🏼

[ocean geyser]

This is why the Orokin also really like asymmetry in people, yes? Because symmetry (and by extension, looking the same as someone else) was an attribute given to… non-people

In their eyes at least

[restive river]

I think that was more so just for fashion

The long arms are akin to the fake moles rich/royals/upperclass people would have for purely aesthetic reasons

[steel stone]

@woven coyote

@kindred gyro

[ocean geyser]

Why are you pinging people

[woven coyote]

🤷‍♂️

[woven coyote]

the most we have on it as far as i remember right now is the kuria poem
Tho you could say there are more hints arount, like how duaghter behaves towards kahl in the beginning or ballas calling it the vain faith

Maybe there are some other lines i am forgetting possibly in one of the logs simaris holds but this is what i remember rivht now

[strange turtle]

Yuvan are just the young people they select for body transfer, they’re just normal humans. The long arm and different coloured skin are just body modifications, the latter being from refacia kits that we can use ourselves by maxxing out focus schools

[lucid smelt]

I love how we can use refacia kits. Its such a snub to the orokin and their facade of superiority. They wanted to believe they were gods. Yet we can mimic and mock them with ease. Quite ironic and funny 😂

Think i'll opt out of the noodle arm tho. Never understood why they thought that was giving 😭

[misty salmon]

They understand basic machines, a longer arm to more efficiently move the levers of power. :P

[rose estuary]

How do you get that suit/outfit?

It loos good

[lucid smelt]

Its a combination of a few things. One sec i'll check for you

[lucid smelt]

Oh ty!

[lucid smelt]

Drifter Orizu Hood (Opened)
Tauron Prime Regalia Body Suit
Drifter Sleeves
Tauron Prime Greaves
Drifter Feldune Gear Waistband

[rose estuary]

Ok thnx

[lucid smelt]

Ofc! 🫶🏼

[gritty lake]

best place to farm neurodes?

[restive river]

Not the chat for that, sorry

[twin wigeon]

always in wrong channel bud, just check the warframe wiki

[rose estuary]

Idk how far you are into the story and star chart but sentients have a chance to drop them just go into lua survival (if you have it unlocked) if not the lephantis assassinate mission is the next best

[ocean geyser]

I remember someone saying something about how the Orokin having long arms because kids were born without a right arm for some reason
Unless that only refers to duviri residents

(Obviously i know this is incorrect)

[trail light]

Who likes big booty

[bright temple]

They evolved to reach the top shelf

[ashen pulsar]

hydroid

[proper barn]

I mean seemingly the hex.

[twin wigeon]

Aoi specifically

[main spade]

The Hex like what they got, talking about Eleanor

[hexed oxide]

also

[proper barn]

yeah freaky frame is real.

old news.

[unique talon]

Curious to see that the orokin are the perfect reflection of our actual society

Always wanting to be some kind of divinity or God

Toying with life

And we all saw the results lately

[pale cedar]

Wouldn't say perfect representation

[unique talon]

"We have created monsters we couldn't control..."

[unique talon]

Their greed ended then up

[pale cedar]

Our society doesn't want to be gods
Greed ends people sure
But definitely isn't a prefect representation

[unique talon]

We create weapons of mass destruction to feel superior over the rest

Just like the Warframes, just like Godzilla

Only a product/consequence of their actions

"We're seasons.. all of US..."

".. born in the light, die in the dark.."

[pale cedar]

Humans still don't try to feel superior for the most part

[marble latch]

Hi guys

[pale cedar]

Hi

[marble latch]

Whats the topic?

[unique talon]

Human nature is inevitable

The closest thing we have in the game are Just the Corpus

"profit is all that matters"

[marble latch]

Human greed is the topic of this discussion?

[unique talon]

For one side we have Nef anyo, some sort of Max Webber

And Parvos Grannum, Max

His lore is kinda interesting and curious

[marble latch]

I agree, we as society and as humans strive to be perfect, even though we cannot achieve that

We still do, and we are shocked when accidents happen

[tall echo]

...no

[unique talon]

How so?

[lean garden]

would be ignoring not only the nuance of yknow, the world we live in having various kinds of societies and the world of warframe having different kinds of societies

the "pursuit of power" isnt even representative to everyone

[tall echo]

The human default tends more towards kindness and cooperation than cold pursuit of power and progress

[pine orchid]

I just did The Teacher quest and... man they really are just space mom and space dad 😭

[pale cedar]

Mom and Uncle

[tall echo]

Space uncle

[pine orchid]

dad, uncle... close enough Xd

co-parental figures

[tall echo]

If your dad is your uncle there's something weird with the family tree

[pale cedar]

We don't like Space Dad his death was a beautiful sight

[tall echo]

Yes

Not enough bullets but aside from that yes

[pine orchid]

are y'all talking about Ballas?

[pale cedar]

Yes

[pine orchid]

ah, I don't acknowledge him as Space Dad

he is Space Mom's Toxic Ex-Boyfriend

[tall echo]

That makes him space dad

Formerly

[normal mountain]

The Jerk Formerly Known as Space Dad

(to the tune of The Artist Formerly Known as Prince)

[worldly knot]

WELL HE AIN'T MY SPACE DAD NO MORE
Teshin is space dad.

[tall echo]

Now known as a whining idiot with doofenschmirtz levels of successful plans

[normal mountain]

I just hope we don't find that alternate universe where he has facial hair and is more successful

[tall echo]

That means it's somehow negative

[tall echo]

Specifically because of that

[molten nebula]

PREACH BROTHER

[tall echo]

Umbra should've stabbed higher up

Not in the heart that'd be boring

[normal mountain]

Should have gone for the head, fr

[tall echo]

No

Stab somewhere in the middle of the ribcage

[normal mountain]

Oooh, the spine 😈

[tall echo]

If a gut stab already made the amalgamification make his ribcage slightly visible imagine what a stab in the ribcage would do

[normal mountain]

Lol, then we can adapt one of my favorite scary villain quotes

[tall echo]

The orokin obsession with symmetry and clean aesthetics, weaponized against him

[normal mountain]

"I can see your heart.
Funny. I didn't think you had one."

[tall echo]

Replace heart with brain and you got a quote that applies to most fallout villains

[ocean geyser]

Didn’t he fuse a prosthetic leg to his knee so it would match the leg that remained even after amalgamization?

Just remembered that now

[tall echo]

Yes

It was pure gold

[ocean geyser]

Yeah that sounds about right

[tall echo]

We should've taken it and turned it into one of those boot fishing trophies

[ocean geyser]

Best we can do is using his staff to give the helminth glasses

[tall echo]

I have any and all orokin items get subsumed into the backroom helminth walls

Including nihil's oubliette

[ocean geyser]

I imagine Nihil probably isn’t pleased by that

I do find it neat that the 1999 Helminth looks more aggressive than present day helminth

[tall echo]

He's as annoyed as usual when I talk to him

[ocean geyser]

Dawg went from funky mouth to evil teeth flower

[tall echo]

I can try to find pictures of my backroom and dm them to you if you want to see all the subsumed orokin stuff

And other funnies

Actually nvm too much effort with my wonky internet

[ocean geyser]

Lmao fair
Maybe when your internet unwonkies itself

[strange turtle]

Not to be confused with The Prince

[spice spade]

do anyone think we can play as the son of stalker? someday?
what will be his powers?

maybe his ability will be like his father and mother combined or something?
what will be his weapon called?
father= hate
mother=harmony
son=?
what is hate plus harmony?

[silk atlas]

Almost went on a "we're not going to steal his child" rant before I remembered we could just have a gameplay segment that's just us as the child lol

[pale cedar]

We won't do it in the transference way ever

[lilac aspen]

Holy executor vibes
They have their mother’s energy but will probably be trained by stalker

[tawdry lintel]

what exactly is the Void represented as on the Star Chart?
We got planets for, well , the planets, but the Void is it's own separate dimension.
Is there any lore behind it? Is this basically just a giant Void Fissure in space that gives quick access to the Orokin Towers, or is it just a gameplay thing?

is it like the hole the Zariman plugs up, but just without the plug, and more stable?

[strange turtle]

Probably won’t be influenced by his fathers

Jade Shadows whole thing is Stalker moving past how he feels about the Tenno to save Jade, and moving past his role as a hunter of tenno to become the Protector of his child (even if he relapses sometimes for gameplay)

[twin wigeon]

The Void is just a map of orokin derelicts, swirling with void energy.

The Zariman plugs the hole in the Albrecht Membrane and stops the tear from getting any bigger and releasing Wally on the system

[strange turtle]

There’s also the issue of only Jade’s pregnancy and transformation into a warframe having any effect on the baby, since Sorren wasn’t framed at the time

So unless the baby’s growth and abilities are malleable due to being an undesigned, baby warframe, they should only take after Jade’s

[twin wigeon]

I’m not ready for a baby that throws scythes that stick into enemies setting them alight with Jade beams

[idle oasis]

One of the more confusing parts of the lore for me was in the prelude to war. Why does Ballas give us the Paracesis? Is it because he initially despises his new form and wants us to kill the sentients but then changes his mind later on? Or is it some elaborate ruse? Whats his plan at that point?

[violet storm]

Part of his ruse.

[strange plinth]

gives us the weapon he'll use against us later. its manipulation

[idle oasis]

why not just keep it if he wants to use it?

or is it like a thing of feeling superior because he tricked us?

[strange plinth]

he wants us to think that he's helping us and on our side
same as him being leashed by erra for half a cutscene, he's trying to act like he's being forced to do this rather than being co-conspirator with erra

[idle oasis]

oh right yea that makes sense. Thanks!

[pale cedar]

What you see on the star chart is just the places in the Void the Orokin mapped

[idle oasis]

yea they put orokin towers in the void which stabelize the region so it can be accessed. The tileset in the void is the inside of these towers.

[lean garden]

who told you the void towers stabilised the region?

[idle oasis]

I dont remeber where it's said but at some point in the lore its mentioned

[pale cedar]

This is all the lore they have

“The Tenno has discovered abandoned Orokin towers within The Void. These towers were intended to act as sanctuaries from Sentient attack during the Old War, since the Void is intensely damaging to Sentients.”

[idle oasis]

Idk maybe I'm misremembering but in my memory at some point you start a mission and after the ship cutscene bringing you to the Orokin tower the Lotus says something along the lines of "these Orokin towers stabilize a region of the void" (im paraphrasing from memory here). Or maybe it was just flavor text on a loading screen? I could swear its mentioned at some point. Tried to look it up but couldn't find anything official online but there is multiple other ppl who also say this so the idea must come from somewhere.

[hollow siren]

Might be the things that keep Lua in the Void during TSD

[idle oasis]

yea I might be conflating that and the Orokin void being a calmer region where the towers reside

[tall echo]

He gave us the idea of it because it didn't currently exist

[sly ibex]

He was hedging his bets, basically. I think he saw it as he would either convince us to somehow be on his side and kill Lotus (hence his playing the victim so much), or he could get ahold of the sword somehow and use it (which he did).

[worldly beacon]

slighty off topic, but I have this from an old support ticket, though it was cool :>

[...]
Thank you for your message.
Orokin towers exist in a space-time realm that is unfortunately still incomprehensible to our human minds.
Their true dimensions are constantly shifting with the Void winds in a way that prevents accurate measurements from being taken.
Regards,
[DE]Liv

[vale rivet]

So did gm cause the crisis on Demos

[strange plinth]

grandmother was the one controlling the necramech that shot the heart yea

[restive river]

“My family is still being mean to eachother after thousands of years! Time to risk literally everything so that some Tenno will make them talk to eachother and maybe grow as people, yes that’s a logical chain of things to do!”

[strange plinth]

yup..

[idle oasis]

Do I understand correctly that Natah was born of a fragment of Hunhow which is why she is an eidolon? What is confusing to me is that the wiki says she is a sentient mimic so are all sentients created by fragmetation and thereby are all Eidolons or is there multiple ways the sentients reproduce? Also if they reproduce by fragmentation how is Pregassa Natahs mother, if she wasnt involved in creating her.

[silk atlas]

She's not an Eidolon, no

[strange plinth]

there are two ways that sentients reproduce
one method is fragmenting, which (at least in the case of hunhow) creates a new body in the "hive."
corrected by Scrap below, fragmenting isn't quite a form of reproduction
the other method, which either doesn't have a proper name or i don't remember it, creates a fully separate organism, which is how Natah was made

[idle oasis]

I guess she just becomes one in the new war because she is close to death then?

[strange plinth]

she is an eidolon during TNW in that she died/almost died and was brought back, at the cost of a significant portion of her mind, at least temporarily
the eidolons on the plains are pieces of a much larger sentient that got blown up by gara. they're mostly mindless and searching for the other pieces

[tall echo]

She's a full sentient not a fragment
Fragments are drones created and controlled by full sentients
Fragmentation is not how sentients reproduce
Eidolons are undead sentients

[idle oasis]

"Sentients appear to (at least occasionally) reproduce via fragmentation, i.e. a broken-off piece of a larger Sentient can sometimes become a new being. In the case of Hunhow, at least, these new beings remain part of his singular mind; he refers to the Conculysts and Battalysts that serve him as both "his fragments", "his body" and "his children". Meanwhile, the Eidolons roaming at night outside Cetus are known to be pieces of a much larger dead Sentient, visible in the distance on the Plains' western horizon. Fragmentation is not the only method of reproduction, however, as Hunhow is also said to have a "womb". According to Pazuul, Natah was pulled out of a "manifold" when she was born/created. Aboard Murex ships, some smaller Sentients can also be seen being 'born' from pools of writhing black biofluid."

From the official wiki. Yes they are part of his hive but they are referred to as his children and a method of reproduction and we don't know how it works for fragments of sentients other than Hunhow. But yea it does say that Natah was created differently.

I'm also curious if the design of Natah came from Ballas, as may be suggested by the Vitruvian and Hunhow created her specifically because of what he learned from Ballas.

[tall echo]

The wiki is unreliable for lore.

It's officially endorsed by DE, but it's edited entirely by the community

[idle oasis]

What source contradicts this info tho? It's is also how I understood it from just playing the game.

although I wasnt aware about the hive part

[tall echo]

The fact that fragmentation is explicitly different from reproduction. Sentients in the origin system are sterile, but they still create fragments

It's not reproduction, it's just creating (ironically) non-sentient drones to do specific tasks

[proper barn]

She becomes one.

During the new war.

[stiff fable]

mostly that all the Sentient enemies you fight are fragments of a larger sentient

[ashen pulsar]

Sentient ≠ eidolon

[proper barn]

@idle oasis okay so. A Eidolon is just a damaged sentient.

[proper barn]

A Eidolon is literally a damaged sentient.

[stiff fable]

A dead sentient

[tall echo]

An undead sentient

[stiff fable]

Damaged in a way that the consciousness fails

[proper barn]

All the Eidolons on plains of Eidolon are damaged sentients cuz the main one they are fragments of died.

[ashen pulsar]

A little more than damaged.

[stiff fable]

Sentients have a distributed consciousness. There's no single organ that does their thinking.

[ashen pulsar]

Unstable, fractured, basically dead

[proper barn]

@idle oasis @tall echo @strange plinth
Okay sentient reproduction is really werid. I think Natah is special because she was made of 2 sentients.

[stiff fable]

Eidolons are what happens when a Sentient's mind goes away

[stiff fable]

It's implied that ALL second generation and on Sentients are like Natah

[proper barn]

But they do "reproduce' asexualing seemingly.

[idle oasis]

yea, eidolons specifically are fragmented sentients (as in some of its own parts are missing and it's only lingering away). Not quite dead. But I believe restoring them by archon shards as done in TNW reverses the Eidolon condition and restores them to sentiets.

[proper barn]

Is it?

[tall echo]

Well not exactly, praghasa isn't an eidolon

[stiff fable]

That's my argument for why I don't think Praghasa's actually dead

[proper barn]

This couldn't be done to the plains ones. Cuz they are "drones" just from a MASSIVE sentient.

[stiff fable]

All Sentients are massive

[tall echo]

She's braindead

[proper barn]

This one

Is like MASSIVE MASSIVE.

[tall echo]

Erra

[stiff fable]

Pazuul calls out for his mother

[proper barn]

So was natah basically. We might fix or use Phragasa to go to tau.

That might happen.

[stiff fable]

All the mimics are pieces of Natah. Her original form was assuredly much larger.

I expect the same is true of Erra.

[idle oasis]

the plains eidolones are fragments of a massive eidolonn but not really described as drones. More like mindless pieces wandering in search of the other pieces

[proper barn]

She was made to be a mimic

[stiff fable]

Those facts are not contradictory?

[silk atlas]

Pazuul is also, to put it lightly, not right in the head.

[proper barn]

They are said to be fragments of it. Not a Eidolon a war sentient that was attacking the plains.

[tall echo]

They're bits of the full sentient running on instinct ye

[proper barn]

Like this was basically a Conculust

[stiff fable]

Exactly.

We still don't know who grafted Pazuul on Erra's body.

[proper barn]

Of this massive Sentient.

[tall echo]

Not drone fragments

[proper barn]

I think the like Actual Tau Update and maybe old Peace

Will shed light on the sentients.

[stiff fable]

The oldest trailers for The New War have Praghasa awake

[silk atlas]

Oh wait that's a different convo you're on about, Praghasa not being dead dead would be wild.

[idle oasis]

yea, thats pretty much what I said, they are fragments of a big sentient I believe blown up by gara?

[proper barn]

Yes.

[stiff fable]

RIGHT???

[proper barn]

Maybe.

[tall echo]

Praghasa is physically alive but mostly braindead

[proper barn]

Anyway I think with old peace and the actual Tau update. We will fill in a lot of the gaps we have now. Like most of this current discussion we literally don't know for sure. @idle oasis

It's all very up in the air.

Like going to TAU even I. The past

Is gonna be like so interesting.

[tall echo]

Wow my internet just janked so much it made my entire phone lag

[ashen pulsar]

Praghasa could think? That’s news to me

[proper barn]

And like it's gonna be new war length.

[stiff fable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXSVA5IntiM

skip to 50s

Actually 40s

This obviously wasn't in the final quest

But at one point Praghasa WAS going to be an active, conscious participant

And the fact that she's entirely intact makes me wonder

[ashen pulsar]

Do we know what happened to her after TNW then?

[stiff fable]

No

We have no idea about the internal workings of the Narmer faction beyond that Archons are still being created and people are still being veiled, willingly and not

[ashen pulsar]

so probably floating through space aimlessly then

[stiff fable]

Maybe. Except, Pazuul was made somehow.

[ashen pulsar]

so something was recovered from it

meaning someone got access to it

[stiff fable]

Or she's active again.

[idle oasis]

As far as I have pieced together from quite a bit of research now Natah was created by Hunhow (somehow involving Praghasa) in Tau based on a blueprint designed by Ballas during his defection. Ballas designed her with the purpose of infiltrating the the Orokin and destoying the Tenno heart and modeled her features after Margulis. You can see in the Vitruvian during the Sacrifice that she is part of the files sent to Hunhow. Erra (and likely others) were also created around this time in Tau though I believe it is unknown exactly when or why. Then to fight the old war they all crossed the void back to the Origin system and became sterile so all new sentients since the old war are created by fragmentation and are technically part of Hunhow.

[tall echo]

We still don't know what the hek deacons are

[stiff fable]

true actually

I've been assuming they're sentients in priestly clothes, but that doesn't mean anything

[normal mountain]

I almost feel like there's a simpler solution to the how Pazuul got Erra's body
We know he's one of the Archons
Maybe he was just waiting in the background, grabbed Erra's body, and transplanted his cranium

[tall echo]

Humaoid, floating, sounding like a weird vader

[stiff fable]

My only issue with that is that we don't know what the archons are

[proper barn]

We don't know if that part is true. Or if Ballas just happened to be there.

[stiff fable]

We've only ever seen shards of them

[ashen pulsar]

they could be human

[tall echo]

Well archons are the fusion of head+body

[stiff fable]

Unlikely, we know they were Sentients made to look like Earth animals

[tall echo]

Deacons

[stiff fable]

.....I apologize it's been a long day

[normal mountain]

Archons are the Sentient-Warframe hybrids

[stiff fable]

proceed

[tall echo]

Having two topics at once is fun

[ashen pulsar]

yep

[normal mountain]

...actually, I've been wondering
What was Pazuul's warframe body?

[stiff fable]

ahahaha

Did he have one?

[normal mountain]

Would be nice to find out someday

[idle oasis]

How else would you explain the image/blueprint of Natah in the Vitruvian. If Ballas had not designed her he it would not be there. If she was just created by Hunhow he would not have access to that information and there would be no reason why she her facial features resemble margulis in her Sentient state

[normal mountain]

He was an Archon
He must have had one

[stiff fable]

I was thinking that he was kept unused because he was considered too dangerous

Because he apparently sat out the entire New War

[ashen pulsar]

oh, what are the others' frames?

[tall echo]

Rhino, loki, mag

[stiff fable]

Nira is Mag Prime
Amar is Rhino Prime
Boreal is Loki Prime

[proper barn]

I think she might have been already being made but I'm not sure. Also Hunhow Hates Ballas so much that might be cuz he betrayed him but idk.

[idle oasis]

I question that Erra in TNW is even the real Erra and not a recreation of him since Lotus is positive he was killed in the Old war and we see in the flashback (which is not narrated by any charachter so shouldnt contain falsehoods) that he was destroyed.

[stiff fable]

Sentients don't have a seat of consciousness like people do. Every Sentient you fight in Second Dream and Octavia's Anthem is an itty bitty piece of Hunhow

[ashen pulsar]

well

we dont exactly see him destroyed, right? just attacked?

[normal mountain]

Perhaps that's only what she thought
Lotus has had her memories tampered with before, yes?

[stiff fable]

My guess is that Erra just fashioned a second body for himself

[tall echo]

Considering natah's surprise at him being alive I think you're overestimating how much of a sentient is in the fragments

[stiff fable]

Like I said before, I don't believe Natah and Erra's human-size forms are their original forms

Oh, absolutely

[idle oasis]

well yes but Erra was born in Tau, not by fragmentation. At least as far as any information I can find on him goes.

[stiff fable]

But there's enough Hunhow in the War sword that destroying it caused him serious damage

[tall echo]

Erra got super void beamed

[stiff fable]

Erra could have paid a major price for having that body void beamed, but not enough to kill him

[tall echo]

Did it?

[proper barn]

We don't know what the manifold is. Also Natah was trained by the Wolf in his not archon Form.

[idle oasis]

sure but we also have the flashback which is not her memory but displayed as what actually happened in the old war

[stiff fable]

Yes actually!

He screams at Stalker to stop your Warframe from shattering it during TSD

[normal mountain]

But we never saw Erra's corpse in that flashback

[tall echo]

I thought it just severed his connection to stalker

[stiff fable]

that too

[ashen pulsar]

again we dont know it killed him

[stiff fable]

There was a price for its destruction

[normal mountain]

At this rate, I refuse to acknowledge a character is truly dead unless I see a corpse in a cutscene

[tall echo]

Regor is dead

[normal mountain]

or they pull a Vor

[stiff fable]

lol was going to say

[idle oasis]

I guess thats true yea

[tall echo]

Tyl rigor

[stiff fable]

the only character in Warframe that's dead right now is Vemo

[normal mountain]

Still
They might just bring him back, say he isn't dead
No corpse yet

[ashen pulsar]

regor mortis

[normal mountain]

Nor with Alad

[tall echo]

And the chaddest voice haver

[ashen pulsar]

but what if... nah vigo is dead

[stiff fable]

Oh and Rell actually

[tall echo]

So far they've made very sure to not have any regor content after he challenges the tenno to a fight at the end of natah

[ashen pulsar]

and your parents

[tall echo]

Even when retrieving the cure for alad regor's labs were abandoned iirc

[idle oasis]

I raise you an Eternalism. He is dead but he is also not dead. Either reality is technically accessible.

[tall echo]

NO.

[ashen pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-shocked-cat-silly-cat-cat-kitten-gif-7414586676150300212

[stiff fable]

STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM

[tall echo]

THEORETICALLY, not technically

In practice that means inaccessible

[stiff fable]

Also worth noting I believe Vor gets a death cutscene after Mercury that implies he's going to become Corrupted Vor, but you fight him on Ceres as a dual boss with Kril

[idle oasis]

hey, we've done it before xd

[strange plinth]

on one occasion, sorta

[tall echo]

We haven't

Not even once, drifter was in the void which is between realities

[strange plinth]

fair point

[ashen pulsar]

he's dead. vespa is dead.

no eternalizing

[tall echo]

I just realized that that grineer pfp border forgets the fact that the skull lookin thing is a mask and not part of the helmet

[idle oasis]

Depends on how you interpret the hanshake scene I guess. You could argue its wally selecting an operator from one reality to swap with the drifter who at that point is in the cannon reality. Or you could argue the Zariman child in the void is the one being swapped but even then he came from the cannon reality before entering the void.

[stiff fable]

iirc the whole New War flashback is actually a timeloop

So it's actually "neither"

[tall echo]

Yes

[idle oasis]

but that part is honestly a bit confusing to me

[stiff fable]

It's the timeloop stuttering and stopping

Oh right, out of curiousity, what do people think the Devil's Triad story is going to be?

[tall echo]

I genuinely have no idea

Not even a theory

[stiff fable]

That makes for some of the most fun speculation

like, given that they're called the Devil's Triad they're almost certainly going to present as some kind of antagonistic force

But the non-Orokin are from 1999, which is intriguing

[celest needle]

~~Probably ~~ Definitely something to do with Entrati just taking them from 1999 into the old war era

[stiff fable]

You're almost certainly right, but I think it'd be funny if it went the other way and the Orokin was in 1999

[solid dove]

Head cannon: Nokko and Yareli are nymphs and their adopted parents are Titania and Oberon

[tall echo]

Not necessarily

[normal mountain]

Not necessarily
But would be funny if there was a whole other set of protoframes who were antagonistic

"Suprise, you get more enemies!"

[tall echo]

He probably will be considering he can be dated

[stiff fable]

Honestly, I'd love that

It'd be extra funny if one of them was a Loki proto, because >Loki and also he's a former starterframe

[tall echo]

What does that reaction mean

[stiff fable]

I'm impressed with the logic

[normal mountain]

That... would be specifically annoying for me,
But I guess

[stiff fable]

Yeah "oh damn they right"

[tall echo]

I'm always right

-# Because I hold my phone to my left

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/boo-boo-this-man-mad-angry-gif-16849857

[normal mountain]

Huh, I hold my phone to my right
Does that mean I'm always left?

[tall echo]

Yes

[stiff fable]

Or "sinister"

[normal mountain]

👈

[tall echo]

Language is weird

[normal mountain]

remind me to break out my Yellow Ring the next time we meet...

[tall echo]

Dextral, sinistral...

[celest needle]

Probably the good guys disguised as bad guys

[celest needle]

considering we are playing for the Orokin here

[stiff fable]

Honestly, probably

My guess is that the human protos are trying to redeem the Orokin, who doesn't care (but kinda does eventually)

[tall echo]

I wonder what the frame's abilities will be

[stiff fable]

half sarcastic question but does Rebb play SMT or Persona?

[normal mountain]

Something something demon, something something burn in hell,

[tall echo]

Probably

[normal mountain]

Fire demons bore me

[stiff fable]

because Uriel in those games usually has light, fire and lightning skills

I know Rebb played P5

[tall echo]

Who's saying it'll be fire

[normal mountain]

Just looks fiery
Boring

[tall echo]

We had temple earlier this year

I doubt they're gonna mske two fire frames in one year

[normal mountain]

And Jade before him
It's close enough

[tall echo]

*them

[normal mountain]

Right

[tall echo]

Jade isn't a fire frame

[normal mountain]

Her abilities deal Heat damage
Close enough for me

[stiff fable]

also her progenitor element is heat iirc

[normal mountain]

Hmm
Maybe Uriel will be ironically Cold based?
Be a funny upset from the norm

[tall echo]

Prog elements get funky

[normal mountain]

Also, we haven't had a cold frame in a while

[tall echo]

We only have one cold frame no?

[celest needle]

I wonder how much Entrati screwed up the timeline now or how the Indifference is going to try to mess this up

most likely he messed up the whole peace treaty with the sentients or by our inadvertent actions

[tall echo]

I'd vibe with a 2nd cold frame

[normal mountain]

Yareli deals cold damage too
But no status

[celest needle]

To be fair

Grendel is impact and Atlas is toxin 🥀

[stiff fable]

Fully Cold element, yes Frost is the only one, but Gauss, Chroma and Lavos have multiple elements

[tall echo]

Thas only bc there's no water dmg

[normal mountain]

Not talking progenitors
Her abilities literally deal

[tall echo]

Don't count

[celest needle]

fire frame it is

although how are they going to do this one differently

then just Chroma 2

[stiff fable]

TECHNICALLY the Jade Light is molecular dissolution

[normal mountain]

Could have gone corrosive like Hydroid

[tall echo]

I can believe uriel being a cold+pierce frame

[stiff fable]

Breaking atomic bonds so that people explode

[stiff fable]

I think the treaty is just going to break because the Orokin are Orokin

[tall echo]

Yareli's water isn't like tides tho

[normal mountain]

Eh?

[stiff fable]

Yareli has bubbles, and you can totally have acid bubbles

[tall echo]

Corro works with hydroid bc his water is like forceful and stuff

Vaguely

[normal mountain]

And Yareli makes big boomy water vortex

[tall echo]

Yareli's water is more controlled

[stiff fable]

but yeah a bunch of the elemental frames have dis/staff counterparts

[tall echo]

The lack of a water element forces DE to improvise

[stiff fable]

Ember and Nezha, Volt and Gyre

Technically Nokko is the male WMD poisonous frame

So a female ice frame is a logical next step

[tall echo]

You know now I want uriel to be cold+pierce that'd be cool

[celest needle]

true...
But I really wanna see how ENTRATI and the Indifference are going to play out here since we haven't seen them at all yet or how the theme of love is going to be incorporated with the story

[tall echo]

Pun not intended

[normal mountain]

It would be cool, yes

Pun totally intended

[stiff fable]

if I had to guess, the disaster that reignites the Old War could have been averted if the Operator had trusted their friend more

I think Albrecht is going to be in the TAU update and not Old Peace

[normal mountain]

Or maybe that's not the disaster
And something worse happens

[stiff fable]

I'm sure something worse WILL happen

[normal mountain]

Devil's Triad side story

[stiff fable]

hmm, maybe on the margins? Like he is in Isleweaver?

[celest needle]

Also
how are the anarchs going to play out as an actual faction

[oak jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-warframe-duviri-the-duviri-paradox-orowyrm-orowyrm-lodun-gif-6160355380853365164

[celest needle]

https://tenor.com/view/drifter-warframe-orvius-duviri-tpose-gif-2184915799053127106

[stiff fable]

probably similar to the Grineer? Except the Orokin are commanding both sides secretly?

so exactly like the modern Grineer?

[celest needle]

Oops another grineer reskin 😭

[stiff fable]

We'll get Dax too!

[celest needle]

[I know Scaldra isn't a total grineer reskin but they play sort of the same]

[stiff fable]

They're Grineer with gas element

Which is funny because apparently they're the prototypes for the Dax

[celest needle]

The fan service possibilities tho.....

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/909623931718217778/1107024309026820296/2DC1263D-E2D7-4662-B6A4-4166445C2DAF.gif

Grineer queens....

Teshin......

The Entrati Family....

[stiff fable]

The queens would be young Orokin on Earth

I can see Father showing up as voice recording, like Mother does in the New War Zariman

Teshin can totally cameo

Most of the update is going to be new characters though

And DE I'm begging you, PLEASE NPC TENNO

[celest needle]

Zariman children from TNW Cutscene return????

[stiff fable]

Or the Erra cutscene

[feral cape]

I'd like unum lore

[stiff fable]

you know what would be interesting would be seeing the Arbiters of Hexis around

[feral cape]

With this war thing id be neat to see just how long the quills have existed

Are they a post or pre collapse thing maybe they've existed throughout time as the unums hands steering the timeline towards the "good" one

[stiff fable]

Most of the syndicates don't make sense to show up in Old Peace, but Arbiters and pre-cephalonization Suda could

[celest needle]

I'm betting we are going to see NONE of them

https://tenor.com/view/aizen-bleach-gif-11110524482163451904

NO Cephalons

[stiff fable]

we do have one cephalon show up

the one in the owl body, who's racist against clankers Sentients

[feral cape]

Since you posted aizen it makes want unum to be like a kinda yhwach

Not the evil destroy the 3 realms thing

[stiff fable]

My conspiracy theory is that the Unum is Wally's missing finger

[feral cape]

But like it can grant and take back its powers but it cant give whatever power it wants outside of its own power it can only awaken powers

[stiff fable]

Soul King's Right Arm

[celest needle]

Sol-damn Wally can multitask

[stiff fable]

It's also distinctly female, so under the conspiracy theory it's developed a separate consciousness

[celest needle]

I just hope the DLC can expand on Erra a bit

he feels so wasted as of right now

and it could prepare him for whatever is in the Tau update

||SOL DAMN IT, I HAVE TO STOP PUTTING AN '||

[stiff fable]

He just gets played too hard to really have a standout character

like he doesn't have any personal objectives besides "Yes Mr. Ballas"

I'd like to see what made him create the archons

And Caliba--

....oh holy crap

Erra is one of two people who aren't Ballas to create a Warframe

We see Caliban Prime during Old Peace

Meaning Erra was alive and active BEFORE the Old Peace

[celest needle]

Erra cameo at least

[celest needle]

"It's me lotus your brother, let's kill the Tenno."
Shows up in 4 cutscenes
Argues with hunhow for 2 archon missions
Has a change of heart when Ballas the man known as the GOLDEN LORD OF LIES tricks him and is EATING THE SUN
Dies
Gets turned into am Archon
Revives Archons every week for the Tenno to steal their batteries

[feral cape]

I more just want opposed superpowered individuals who arnt wally related or warframes

[celest needle]

Although this line actually does make me sad considering what happened to each of them

Erra's currently possessed by Pazuul and is hellbent on a dead cult
Hunhow is at the bottom of the ocean now with the Stalker Gone he's just, alone.
And the Lotus has taken Rells role of being a vigil for the Indifference

[stiff fable]

And their mom is either lobotomized or organizing the war effort

[ashen pulsar]

currently possessed by pazuul
dude thats all thats left

theres no saving erra from pazuul

pazuul is the dead body of erra with a head stitched on, basically

[strange plinth]

there's bits of Erra that break through sometimes
the question is if that is erra or if its pazuul trying to trick us

[stiff fable]

And like, I said before that Sentients aren't like people

Removing Pazuul's head won't kill Erra, because his mind is across his whole body

Removing the shard might kill him because it parasitized him though, we don't know

[ashen pulsar]

kahl seems to think he's dead alr

"body is dead worm"

[tall echo]

Ah yes, kahl, the all-knowing vessel of steve

[ashen pulsar]

why would they add it if he turns out to be alive

[tall echo]

Why not

[ashen pulsar]

if he's alive, the information that led us to do the entirety of veilbreaker would just be incorrect, and that feels a little dumb

[tall echo]

Can characters never make wrong assumptions?

[ashen pulsar]

no but in this case, the entirety of the quest is based around getting information

[tall echo]

...for some reason I do not like the word assumption

It looks weird

[ashen pulsar]

story-wise, it'd just seem like they changed their minds and went back on the info we got from kahl, even if he could be wrong

[summer marsh]

could you elaborate specifically on what info we got from kahl?

[ashen pulsar]

"Kahl tell Blue Girl about Pazuul: Body is dead worm. Head like animal."

and then kaelli complains that its the only info they got

[restive river]

Worm being what Grineer call Sentients

[ashen pulsar]

yeah

[summer marsh]

“If any trace of Erra still remains inside Pazuul, I will bring it to the surface.” says the lotus

[ashen pulsar]

we have seen traces of erra in pazuul, and like captain said there could still be him in there, I think it's more likely that fragments of his mind were in the body sorta like captain's idea, and that pazuul's personality has those fragments.

I think what we see is as much of erra as there is left

[stiff fable]

Quick reminder, but archon shards have the ability to heal Sentients

And Pazuul HAS an orange shard in his neck

I'd argue that the archons actually are the shards but that's pure speculation

[strange plinth]

-# my favorite thing about pazuul is the shard that is supposed to be in the portrait but just Doesn't Render and its never been fixed

[stiff fable]

pfffffft

Right, the only time we see it is during the end of Veilbreaker, right?

[ashen pulsar]

that's true. it is what keeps pazuul alive in general.

[strange plinth]

yea
maybe another place? but not while he's yapping in archon hunts

[stiff fable]

Right through the skull

[ashen pulsar]

doesn't necessarily mean that erra was revived as erra

[stiff fable]

Oh, he wasn't

[strange plinth]

true
hunhow has the line about death having a cost for sentients
n we saw what it did to lotus

[stiff fable]

But "reviving Erra" is a lot easier than reviving the Lotus

His body didn't eidolon

It's really quite complete

[tall echo]

I like how erra's head tendrils turned into a sort of support for pazuul's horns

[stiff fable]

Yeah it's awesome design when you see it in full

[ashen pulsar]

I'd kinda prefer an expansion on this over tau rn

[stiff fable]

(same)

[strange plinth]

one shard and an archon vs 2 (3 if the one ballas.. used? consumed? crushed? went to lotus during his death as well)

[stiff fable]

Probably did, along with his Oro

Huh I wonder if part of the price Lotus paid was the dissociation of identity?

[ashen pulsar]

close the unfinished plot lines before starting a whole new thing

[stiff fable]

All three of Natah, Margulis and Lotus are in her when she chooses

[ashen pulsar]

im guessing 3

[stiff fable]

Which wasn't a problem she had before, even as mimic queen

[ashen pulsar]

choosing margulis there always felt wrong to me

[stiff fable]

The line that let her separate her identities broke down and never comes back, even after she chooses one to lead

It's her choice, valid as any other

[strange plinth]

its. definitely the least "correct" out of the options
but i still wouldn't say its wrong under the context of her choosing it

[ashen pulsar]

yeah I know all three are her choice, it just felt so weird to make her margulis

[stiff fable]

I wouldn't even say that under the symbolism of the Lua alignment

It's making a dream real, like alchemical transformation

[humble sierra]

imo it feels like Margulis was only there to have a third option. We haven't spent much time with Lotus as Margulis, and from my understanding there's quite a bit of stuff like the Rell situation where Lotus might be disappointed/disgusted by Margulis

[stiff fable]

I still think Rell is the one who blasted Margulis's eyes

In which case separating him would be to keep us from murdering him

[strange turtle]

There’s also the Zariman which is multiple different Zariman’s intersecting according to Drifter

But that’s just one location and it just happened, we didn’t actually do anything, so even then it doesn’t count

[strange turtle]

I mean there was that one ring of hell in Inferno that was all icy and cold

Cocytus I think it was?

[restive river]

Fire so hot it’s cold?

[tawdry lintel]

u guys got any theories that could improve the corrupted and Neural Sentry?

I remember the Corrupted were mentioned inthe Arid Evicerator's synthesis entry, so they might have even been a thing during the times of the Orokin, but other than that, we got nothin

i also wonder what the link is between the Sentry and the Void.

[tawdry lintel]

since "Sentry" means like, a guard, and the Nuearl Sentry acts as the security system of the Lua and Orokin Towers, what if it also acted in a similar way to the Story of Duviri? An emotional regulation device meant to forcibly contain or "guard" against those who couldn't regulate their emotions when the Void flared up.

Like, if someone got really heated, the Sentry would come it with a mask to stop the person from generating conceptual embodiments, while also controlling and puppeting them around as a sort of secondary labor or defense force?

[heady quest]

I mean the Neural Sentries are just AI inside orokin Towers in the void as an automatic security system against possible sentient attacks.
After they got abandoned the Neural Sentries forgot who we where and began controlling anyone who enters these towers like scavenging grineer and Corpus. Then the void itself made them corrupted like how void fissures also corrupt enemies in relic missions.

I don’t think the Zariman had Neural Sentries cause wasn’t the zariman made before the old war? That would mean Neural Sentries and Void Towers weren’t being actively made

Also we don’t really know what Lua was like before the old war cause what we see is what it became after years of war with the sentients. It could very well be that Neural Sentries were already being made before sentient invasion but I remember seeing somewhere that the Void Towers were specifically made to protect orokin against sentients? Correct me if I am wrong.

[ocean geyser]

Yeah they built them to go hide there

[ocean geyser]

Speaking of the Neural Sentry
Is it possible to break free, you think?

Some people believe that the Corrupted are basically puppeted corpses but that doesn’t really make sense since they still talk

[pale cedar]

Probably can if you can find a way to take the mask off similar to Veils

[ocean geyser]

So, in theory, would the effect also be able to be resisted, like the Veils?

[heady quest]

Honestly, I wonder why we didn’t get any references to the neural sentry during new war 🧐

We honestly don’t get anything about the Orokin Towers in the void and we just accept they are there 😂

[pale cedar]

I'd assume because they work differently to the point no reason bringing it up plus us only going to one Orokin tower that seemingly doesn't have sentry installed