lore-discussion

[lean garden]

it doesnt matter if its actually justified tho, it wont change that they feel like meanies

[vale bronze]

The Drifter called him an evil void god in a message to Velmir and Minerva when Minerva started aggressively asking the Drifter questions,

That's why I referred to them as a deity,

[heady quest]

are all these logs canon in the lore that the tenno actually reads them after we finished that quest?

[restive river]

Ooh
It’s more so about how Albrecht goes about it, again Wally isn’t a god. Albrecht is acting out of fear, he hurts everyone around him because of it
He turned people into warframes for vague reasons
He abandoned his daughter
He abandoned Loid, yes in an effort to protect him but. That didnt really work?
He killed way too many animals cause he thought “maybe this will work”
And he shot us

[vale bronze]

In truth, he's more like how a real demon would be.

[restive river]

I’d argue Drifter’s an unreliable narrator on what Wally actually is since we don’t know what he entirely is and we play as them :p

[vale bronze]

@restive river

[tall echo]

Well. Probably

[strange plinth]

don't see why they wouldn't be. the logs are dropped by the whisper 'bosses' in the labs

[restive river]

Also again
Albrecht is an Orokin

[vale bronze]

Well yeah, but he gives you power when you ask, it's like prayer, but in my own opinion he actually seems exactly like a demon.

[restive river]

He doesn’t have an entire moon with giant gold filigree, coins and skulls about and be a “good guy”

[restive river]

We didn’t ask
He offered.

[heady quest]

interesting

[tall echo]

Wally always offers a deal to people in terrible circumstances. And to baro

[vale bronze]

Yeah, but we don't see him engaging in acts of ethnic cleansings, nor saying anything racist, so no clue how being Orokin would make him bad.

[restive river]

You’re right that he’s more like a demon, he approached us, all we did was offer him our “light”, he agreed and gave his part of the deal

[heady quest]

so like anyone who doesn't read the logs are probably also very confused as to what we are actually doing rn

[pale cedar]

we didn’t even expect to get powers tbh

[heady quest]

like what our motivation is for following albrecht around other then that he was a huge douchbag to us in the quest

[restive river]

Think of the Orokin like they’re billionaires
You really think they’re in that position AND they’re a good person?

[tall echo]

Orokin are generally horrible classist ppl with no regard for those below them

[restive river]

Egos bigger than the system itself

[strange plinth]

beyond the standard continuity rituals, there's not much on albrecht, no.
but he's still killed (likely) multiple people via continuity

[restive river]

Heck in one version of reality we didnt

[lean garden]

I say Wally is as much a god as Oryx was a god

[vale bronze]

Well yes, but to know if a person is "evil" or "good" what matters is the intentions, sure killing a person is bad, but doing it to protect (self defense or stand ground laws) makes it reasonable. So if he left to protect, then he's not bad.

[restive river]

He’s also purposefully ruined people’s lives more than they already woulda been for. Reasons?? (The Hex, the Roundtable and likely the Devil’s Triad (minus Roathe) agreed)

[tall echo]

Is thanos a good guy?

[restive river]

Ok
Ignore him leaving if you see it as a good thing
He still did a lot of terrible things

[heady quest]

by using the animals in his void experiments without much thought he is very ethically ignorant which what makes an orokin. They don't care about the lesser beings and only care about power and progress.

[restive river]

Doing an experiment and it resulting in the eventual extinction of a species isn’t really a good guy move

[vale bronze]

Probably yeah, but we haven't heard or seen anything Albert did as an Orokin that would make him bad, it's mostly the executes that ran thing, and it's perpetually impossible to not have "degeneracies" in a society that don't follow societal norms, think Margulies.

[lean garden]

I mean being an "awful person" and doing the "good" thing arent mutually exclusive

[restive river]

We know he did continuity, that’s murder for the sake of immortality, a purely selfish action

[vale bronze]

So scientists irl who use lab rats in place of humans in clinical trials are as bad as Orokin ?

[heady quest]

also him just thinking about sacrificing 1999 for the sake of a chance at stopping wally is also not really good

[restive river]

No
But they are unethical
The Orokin are 100x worse

[tall echo]

At least rats aren't critically endangered

[lean garden]

without much thought? he had a crap ton of thoughts about it lmao

[heady quest]

that is totally different. IRL scientist who handle lab animals are always being cared for to the best of there abilities.

Albrecht didn't care about the animals at all

[restive river]

He turned people into protos for no reason and lucked out when he made the vessels

[tall echo]

Albrecht doomed a whole species to fight wally

[restive river]

Being turned into a warframe is
Horrible

[vale bronze]

Again, I simply asked to be reminded what he did to be seen as awful, just asking for a reminder, so it's just turning people to Warframes ?

[heady quest]

yeah that too

[restive river]

Did you not read what I said?

[vale bronze]

Maybe.

[lean garden]

I recommend rereading albrechts notes, note that he jots down his exact feelings about what he's done

[restive river]

We know Albrecht did continuity, continuity is murder

It’s a literal selfish act, it’s literally evil???

[lean garden]

which is: guilty guilt guilt

[pale cedar]

Didn’t Albrecht come up with the idea while high on Nestawood too?

[restive river]

It’s not even about self preservation, the orokin did it just to have a new body for funsies

[vale bronze]

Yeah, left people to protect them and experiments on animals for the greater good and turning people into Warframes( that one is actually a bad act, I won't argue it isn't bad).

[restive river]

YEAH

[restive river]

No, about continuity :|

Also yes turning people into warframes is bad

Go replay the sacrifice if you need a reminder of how awful it is.

[vale bronze]

Didn't know about those, guess I will give them a read.

[stiff beacon]

Is it bad when it happens to an orokin like roathe

[lean garden]

I mean yes?

[tall echo]

Typo got me filtered lol

[vale bronze]

I know how and why it's bad.

[restive river]

We don’t really know enough about Roathe yet tbf
But
Probably yeah, still an Orokin

[lean garden]

just cuz it happened to a dingus dont mean it changes whats been done

[pale cedar]

We haven’t seen his lore yet tbh so we don’t know if Roathe has done anything really bad

[restive river]

So you want to just lose your autonomy and go through the worst pain of your life?

[restive river]

He likely did continuity at some point

Maybe he renounced it for a better reason than Albrecht did
Like
The fact it’s literal murder and purely feeds the ego

[vale bronze]

@restive river , I still don't approve of calling someone bad because they're Orokin.

[glacial bough]

That very much misses the point of the Orokin

[vale bronze]

I already said I know it's bad fine I know. I already admited that was irredeemably bad, but it still doesn't make Albert evil.

[restive river]

Why?
They’re a class of people full of egos so big they believe themselves to be gods that utilize slave labor, believe everyone else is below them and literally killed people for the sake of immortality.

[restive river]

What is evil to you then?
Cause we still don’t know definitively as to why he made the protos

He just
Did it, to 6 of them he didn’t even warn them just did it under the guise of a cure

[glacial bough]

I don't think anyone has said Albrecht is evil, just that he objectively is doing terrible things

[restive river]

I would absolutely call continuity evil
But yeah he has mostly just done horrible things

[lean garden]

because thats what we call generalisation

[vale bronze]

Ducky did, "because he was Orokin".

[lean garden]

and thats the first step into discrimination

[vale bronze]

Precisely, bro didn't even read the message I wrote that replied to to make him read it again,

[restive river]

Not all Orokin are evil, they’re still human with the capacity to change
It’s just you’d be hard pressed to find any who even want to

[pale cedar]

All Orokin have done something bad but so have all humans

[glacial bough]

Eh, Orokin are far and away a step above "bad"

[restive river]

I view the Orokin like billionaires
A class of people who literally don’t care about anyone else but themselves, which for the most part is true

[glacial bough]

As a caste, yes the Orokin are an objective moral evil

[restive river]

Yes this is what I mean
As a caste they are evil
As individuals they have the capacity to change, does not mean they will

[vale bronze]

It's perpetually impossible for degeneracies not to happen in any society, Margulies is an example that proves Orokin didn't biology code their children to be vile, and that they have free will, which will always lead to individuality.

[restive river]

I’m not arguing against individuality

In fact if we look at Albrecht as an individual
He’s a bad person!

[pale cedar]

Son does Admit the Orokin deserved it

[vale bronze]

Tbh, you did when you said Roathe was still Orokin.

[strange plinth]

tbf, margulis was also not of orokin caste, she was an archimedean

[restive river]

I’m not though
I’m all for giving him a chance, but it doesn’t change what he has done

[glacial bough]

Margulis is not an example, she wasn't an Orokin. And it's not about it being inherent, it's about being an Orokin requires a lack or morals and engaging in heinous activities

[violet storm]

Of The orokin we know of that are named, largely Executors and the couple of dagath’s story, are by no standards saints

[restive river]

The goodest Orokin might be Daughter and
She was openly racist towards Kahl- but she did CHANGE

[vale bronze]

Huh ?

Fr ?

[restive river]

The problem being a majority of Orokin had lifetimes to change and
Didn’t

[glacial bough]

Honestly, probably only to Khal and his crew in that regard. She absolutely still would treat regular Grineer the same

[restive river]

Probably that’s
Actually upsetting, but with Kahl it’s a step I guess?

[vale bronze]

Her racism was acceptable because that's just the socity they grew up in, if you live in an evil society it's only natural the evil ideas would leech into you.

[violet storm]

Ballas is a prime time example, as he had the longest time to do so, and he did not. He actually Might have gone further off the deep end

[pale cedar]

It wasn’t acceptable to current day standards

[restive river]

“Her racism was acceptable”
Aaaand you lost me completely.

[lean garden]

homie I think the word you are looking for is "understandable"

[glacial bough]

I really don't know what you're trying to present with that point

[vale bronze]

If all your friends, family, and extended family saw continuity as perfectly normal, racism as an understandable form of humour,

It would make you sad and depressed.

What do you think she should've done ?

[restive river]

Yeah-
Tuvul too! Remember, he tried to continuity into a child!

[vale bronze]

No I didn't, you're calling all Orokin evil, I am arguing against that generalisation.

[restive river]

You’re missing the point
It’s understandable she acted that was because of her classist ideologies but the fact she changed for the better, even slightly, is important

[violet storm]

a desperate attempt to live on, only to be thwarted by a just recent pissed Voruna

[glacial bough]

Brother, what are are trying to argue here. It being that standard of society doesn't make it any less evil

[vale bronze]

She changed only because she encountered Khal, had she never encountered Khal, she would still be the same.

[restive river]

I mean if you go by the Tenno’s standards and society they
Were evil

I also accept the fact they can be capable of change, but it’s an unfortunate rarity as we have seen

[vale bronze]

I mean, the standard does matter in that regard.

[vale bronze]

Yes.

[restive river]

Like are you missing the part where the tenno genocided the Orokin? Are you saying they shouldn’t have done that cause the classist egotistical wannabe gods would maybe change after lifetimes of repeated evils?

[vale bronze]

Are you saying their genocide was morally correct?

[restive river]

No, but it’s understandable why they did it.

[vale bronze]

"Genocide is understandable." I mean, c'mon mate, we don't know that every Orokin that was present was evil.

Just too scared to speak up.

[restive river]

Continuity proves they are evil

[restive river]

Roathe might be an example of that
He may have spoken against Albrecht and boom
Urieled

[restive river]

Also weren’t you trying to say Daughter’s racism was understandable?

[vale bronze]

Continuity was a socially accepted norm, so I don't see it as right to be used in your argument.

[strange plinth]

huh

[vale bronze]

Racism is to differentiate between people based on race, racism is not equal to genocide.

[restive river]

Socially accepted by the Orokin, the literal classist elites and those they literally brainwashed?

[restive river]

My point is what was understandable to the individual, not equating the two.

To daughter saying a horrible thing was understandable
To the tenno destabilizing the classist regime that put down literally everybody was understandable

[vale bronze]

I mean, Orokin themselves weren't brainwashed.

[restive river]

Civilians were

[violet storm]

Y’know what indoctrination is?

[pale cedar]

"I was to be married, you know? She would now be as dead as the empire that raised us. Sometimes I wish I had been there, with her, when your kind came for us. No hard feelings. Our time had more than come."

[restive river]

The Orokin didn’t need to be brainwashed, they were doing the brainwashing

[strange plinth]

that's.. what she said? "literal classist elites and those they literally brainwashed" there's two subjects there

[vale bronze]

So wait, Margulies wasn't Orokin ?

[restive river]

Daughter said a terrible thing and eventually changed
The tenno did a terrible thing and now do their best to balance the mess they made, cause unfortunately there wasn’t another good option

[restive river]

Margulis wasn’t Orokin

[vale bronze]

Ah.

[strange plinth]

she was an archimedean, a scholar, essentially. ballas was just obsessed

[restive river]

All Orokin have the modified blue skin

[pale cedar]

You are either born Orokin or marry into Orokin

[vale bronze]

That is a job, Orokin is a race or socity.

[restive river]

Or can maybe be offered it? Idr if Ordan’s instance was just a trap or an actual offer

[vale bronze]

Then Albert isn't an Orokin ?

[strange plinth]

both are castes

[restive river]

Orokin is not a race, it’s a class of people. A caste.

[pale cedar]

Albrecht is the reason his daughter is Orokin

[restive river]

He is, he had his skin grown back after his incident with Wally, he’s also likely not blue so he can go undercover in 1999

[strange plinth]

albrecht had the blue skin, but gave it up when he gave up continuity
also it may have been burned off idk that's a little unclear

[restive river]

We have a painting of him with blue skin

[restive river]

It’s the truth

[vale bronze]

Wait then genocide isn't the right word, right ?

[restive river]

Genocide is technically the wrong word for what the Tenno did
They destabilized an empire

Which again
Is why it was understandable

The Orokin were terrible to
Literally everyone

[glacial bough]

It was absolutely the right thing to do, there's no arguing that

[strange plinth]

don't remember who corrected me, its classicide iirc
which is the same general action, just a different target

[restive river]

The Old Peace will only give us more against them i’m sure

[vale bronze]

Okay, then, I just misunderstood, thank you for the clarification, may all of you have a great day.

[restive river]

They likely are behind the separatists for example
But
We shall see

[strange plinth]

well that was. an hour.

[violet storm]

My question is
Why are you fighting an empire with a practically unending army and void-blessed children using metalized warriors and high powered weapons that is literally trying to make peace with one of the greatest threats they have met?

[violet storm]

Well, maintain peace

[strange plinth]

i'm kinda hoping one of the unknown executors is behind the separatists
in one way or another

[strange turtle]

the fragmented one

[pale cedar]

Classicide

[restive river]

I’ll take responsibility cause classicide wasn’t in my vocabulary

[restive river]

Day ??? of begging for a xaku murmur skin

I actually attempted my own best i could

[violet storm]

It’s one of those words you don’t really see used much, like I didn’t know of Regicide or Patricide for a hot while

[lean garden]

control

like take a look at certain wars fought throughout just recent history

[restive river]

The Orokin run everything, it does not mean they are smart at all

[violet storm]

Fair

[lean garden]

and you can find a reason why someone did something to consolidate power and maintain control

[restive river]

Yeah, gotta lock it into my brain to avoid further confusion

Especially since some people do think Orokin is a race

[strange turtle]

Forgot, Operator’s lines indicate it took listening to the Vitruvian to learn what they needed to do for the final mission for Umbra

[violet storm]

Why did I immediately think of the Punic wars? Why?

[strange plinth]

yeah close enough

[pale cedar]

Which is 100% the Orokins fault with how the looked and acted

[restive river]

Yeah

I do hope Roathe like
Called out Albrecht

I can’t wait to see what we get to finally ask an Orokin-

[strange plinth]

there's definitely going to be some interesting convos with roathe

[pale cedar]

I just wanna know why they ain’t dead

[violet storm]

Can’t wait to see the drifter’s reaction to Roathe

[strange plinth]

oh are we going to have to tell them that we killed the rest of the orokin

[violet storm]

I’m sure what happened with Albrecht ain’t gonna help

[restive river]

If Roathe is the og Uriel then I bet his prime will have his armor or diadem

[lean garden]

I mean with what theyve done to themselves theyre basically a manufactured sub-species of homosapiens

[restive river]

Yeah

How would the tenno be classified? We have void saturated DNA and are def still human

Mutated?
Irritated?

[pale cedar]

Metahuman

[restive river]

Do we just have a really bad parasite?

[restive river]

Yeah

[strange plinth]

i mean, he definitely acts like one sometimes-

[violet storm]

the wall whispers madness and hysterics

[pale cedar]

If you’d ask the Orokin though they’d probably class us as Devil

[restive river]

He actually visited me earlier, sat inside my bird 3 floof-

[violet storm]

Ballas

[restive river]

https://tenor.com/view/squirrel-disintegration-meme-ai-meme-funny-gif-5585270952676380091

[strange turtle]

Parahuman

[pale cedar]

I wonder why Ballas didn’t just open up our pods and kill us in our sleep

[restive river]

Thank you :]

[strange turtle]

Maybe he tried and that’s how they first found out

[strange turtle]

Np

[restive river]

Stabbing doesn’t seem to do a lot

[strange plinth]

where even was ballas during the span of time between the collapse and our awakening
just. hiding out somewhere?

[violet storm]

Clearly.

[restive river]

Inserting this into my headcanon

[restive river]

Lua? Maybe??

[pale cedar]

Playing Warden on the Moon

[strange turtle]

Ig your Wally’s a furry I wonder if little bengal might mean more than we thought then

[strange plinth]

a while to spend in the void, though
but ig i wouldn't put it past him

[pale cedar]

Umbra was locked in his cell until Lua was dropped out of Void

I doubt Ballas could leave the Void

A better question is why isn’t Ballas dead since Voruna was on the moon being stabby

[lean garden]

I mean, it would probably be because Voruna was otherwise very occupied

[strange plinth]

could be the same reason kullervo n umbra couldn't kill him
if voruna wasn't doing other stuff

[pale cedar]

Maybe Voruna got placed in one of the Warframe cryopods after killing Tuvul

[lean garden]

vorunas hands were literally full

[strange plinth]

looked at her leverian again, its implied that she leaves at the end
might not be on lua at all by the time its in the void proper
maybe lua is already in the void at that time? "void-locked lua" as its described in the first panel
-# i should not be reading lore at 5 am

[stiff beacon]

nah dude was in tau lol

[spice spade]

Why would he ever come back to the Origin system then? and then spend so long trying to get to tau?

[heady quest]

Wasn’t he inside lua in cryostasis and got released after we pulled lua from the void together with umbra?

[tall echo]

Unspecified

[heady quest]

He really did just spawn out of nowhere

And decided yeah let’s mess with them

[barren jasper]

I don't think it was stated anywhere where ballas was

also the ballas we saw in tau was just a hologram

[stiff beacon]

it was a joke

[barren jasper]

I thought u were basing it off of the tau gameplay mb

[proper barn]

He doesn't have a way to get there.

[restive river]

He was not

[normal mountain]

Word of advice
It's usually not a good idea to make jokes of this kind in #lore-discussion
Unless the joke is incredibly obvious, you will get dogpiled for inaccuracies

[stiff beacon]

I thought it was obvious enough

[proper barn]

Lul it's okay.

[proper barn]

Hey we are very nice about correcting things.

[tall echo]

I'm not

[eternal sand]

How are grineer drop ships able to pierce the unums barrier into the plains of eidelon but can't pierce the barrier into cetus?

[silk atlas]

What barrier around PoE?

[pale cedar]

Isn't the barrier purely around Cetus?

[silk atlas]

Afaik yeah

[eternal sand]

The big blue forcefield around the plains that stop you from wandering off. Giant white pillars with a thin blue shield connecting them?

[silk atlas]

Oh those

🤷‍♂️

[pale cedar]

Pretty sure that barrier is to stop us entering Cetus that way thus a Cetus barrier still

It forces us to use the door

Also stops Grineer getting through the door

[eternal sand]

The barrier also stretches around the plains, essentially encasing it in a bubble as you can find the same barrier on the north end

[pale cedar]

You also notice how no Grineer ever get through that barrier?

They always go nowhere near it

[eternal sand]

They do tho. The plains are encompassed by the barriers yet their drop ships and pods can pass through, so why can't they drop into cetus?

[pale cedar]

The giant tower is why

[neon whale]

I've always interpreted it as the Grineer are able to bypass the weaker satellite barriers with some effort, but the barriers closer to the tower/Cetus itself are far stronger.

[ionic coral]

Also those barriers might just be there to keep the eydlon trapped

Also that might be another reason why they have a hard time building up out there. Hard to set stuff up when you got a invincible titan stomping around smashing things every night

[pale cedar]

It is also probably really hard to land there after zooming in from the plains

[eternal sand]

Lodun of Duviri is really funny to me because out of all the characters his residence is the nicest, he lives in the Duviri equivalent of Beverly hills and he's such a piss baby regardless

It's also funny how the town around him is so clean but he just stands there burning books

[jaunty oasis]

I hope we meet Sol and Lua someday and they look exactly like this in game.

[restive river]

Unlikely

Mostly cause they’re just religious figures and likely aren’t
Real
Just personifications of celestial bodies

Nothing has indicated gods are like
Real in universe

[jaunty oasis]

Who's to say there isn't a "Tale of Sol & Lua" book out there that makes a duviri-like dimension

but yeah

[restive river]

And if they were they probably would have stopped the Orokin

[jaunty oasis]

I get ya

[restive river]

It wouldn’t really be them though if they happened, it’d be the story book versions mixed with the other concepts and emotions of whomever causes it to be CE’d

Look at Drifter with Duviri, it’s littered with aspects of them
Mostly cause they were there for so long

[eternal sand]

You can! Sol is in the middle of the star chart! Look at them!

[ashen pulsar]

And lua’s there too

[ashen pulsar]

Who would’ve ce’d it though

[jaunty oasis]

Ballas great great great great great great great great great ... great grandfather Sallab

[ashen pulsar]

I see

[humble sierra]

Sallab V

[stiff beacon]

yea no i for one don't want to meet this man

https://tenor.com/view/mac-tonight-moonman-gif-7255213274729058959

[eternal sand]

Who was Ballas' uncles cousins former roommate

[eternal sand]

Knowing what I know of that character in pop culture... I most definitely do

[hexed oxide]

i always just look at the hollvanian flag and go VIVA LA PATRIA

https://tenor.com/view/for-luna-scream-if-you-love-scream-if-you-love-argentina-argentina-gif-8588874032055100243

[eternal sand]

Makes me sad, I thought Hollvania was to be Bulgaria

🇧🇬

[hexed oxide]

i mean, im just saying that off the flag layout lol

though if we are talking seriously, it's likely it's some kind of russia, because the tank looks like a t-54/55

[humble sierra]

Russia exists as Rus

Hollvania is possibly more German

[tall echo]

Reminder that hölle is hell in german

[hexed oxide]

💀

[tall echo]

Höllvania is literally hell

[hexed oxide]

what country could hollvania be then ? i thought it would've been nordic or smth

[digital echo]

based on the Hollvania node position on earth back during Tennocon 2024, it was somewhere along Belarus/Ukraine so checks out

[tall echo]

German is mostly spread towards the south and east of germany for no historic reason in particular so if höllvania isn't german it's prob somewhere in those directions

Y'know since some words might've survived into the vocabulary long enough for that to show up in the name

Who knows how wf history went

Hopefully not like wolfenstein

[digital echo]

Höllvania was founded by a genderbent Ghengis Khan (sorry, "Radiant" Khan) so take that as you will

[hexed oxide]

what

[tall echo]

Huh

[digital echo]

(its in Eleanors KIM chat when you ask her about Höllvanias early history)

[tall echo]

How do I not know that

Maybe I frogot

[hexed oxide]

same

[tall echo]

🐸

[digital echo]

kinda easy to miss ngl since it isnt the most interesting choice your given to question her about (missed it the first time i went through her whole arc)

[misty salmon]

pokes around in Eleanor's Kim logs genderbent robin hood, who may also be drawing from the king Arthur myths.....

[humble sierra]

Young Loxley

I think Loxley is a location in the actual Robin Hood stories

[misty salmon]

only reference to Radiant Khan I can find in there involves the walls being built to defend the city against her siege.

Loxley is considered to be Robin's hometown/birthplace in a lot of the versions of that story.

Eleanor: "This may be a walled city-state that’s been here since the time of the Radiant Khan, but the walls they put up to fend her off are old now."
Viktor: "You are a city that has survived the Radiant Khan and her steppe hordes."
Doesn't seem to have been founded by her.

Wonder how efficient their medieval building crews were to throw up walls before being overrun by rampaging cavalry... was it more or less than a fortnight?

[digital echo]

probably just me misremembering that shi then, mb

[tall echo]

...

-# funneh

[digital echo]

but going back on this now, it sounds like its an alternate Kyiv with what bits we know

[humble sierra]

Is Viktor a local?

Is Flare a local?

Is anyone we know a local? Just narrowed it down to those two because it felt most likely

[strange plinth]

iirc flare isn't?
unsure about viktor

[digital echo]

Viktor might be, but some dialogue said by Arthur in the Hex quest and the assassinate mission especially could suggest otherwise

[misty salmon]

The place does seem to collect international (and temporal) intervention forces. I might add Kaya as another potential local, but I don't think there's anything confirmed for any of them.

[lean garden]

I mean, its likely a smaller scale vibe as the Great Wall of China

which had a purpose of attempting to do some Hun blocking

[humble sierra]

Oh, Kaya definitely could be. She's got Filipino roots or whatever the Warframe equivalent is, but I think she was studying in Höllvania— presuming she didn't have the resources to immediately leave school and go there after learning about Entrati

[misty salmon]

I was musing slightly on whether some idea of how long it took to build walls vs how long it took the Mongols to overrun (or run circles around) large sections of eastern Europe might give us an idea of how far east Hollvania was to have that time to prepare. City walls are much smaller vibes than great walls, but I don't really have those numbers for any of them.

[lean garden]

well the great wall would be a horrible baseline lol

[celest needle]

What did Narmer do to the Relay Cephalons? I understand that it's possible to mass-produce Moas and other robotics, but Cephalons aren't purely machines they're really just data. Of course, they aren't destroyed [Cause that'd suck gameplay wise] but could they really do anything to the Cephalons?

[lean garden]

could they destroy cephalons? yes. Did they? No

[celest needle]

But realistically what could they have done to the Cephalons besides destroying them since that didn't happen

[lean garden]

lock them out ig

[stiff beacon]

or pull a hunhow

and try to take one over like

he did suda

[heady quest]

yeah trying to control the weave

basically taking over their internet

[rose estuary]

How did hunhow manage to take control of suda?

[tall echo]

He got into the weave

[pale cedar]

He’s a Sentient and Sentients can hack things

[tall echo]

Sentients are just very advanced machines

[rapid orbit]

Wat if Wallie isn't the owner of the void but another one to stuck in it..
Just lookin at the pure form, It's chaos of pure shapeless energy, unlike wallie's pocket of reality is different, cemented into concrete and sand., as another example is the Duviri wich is basically the pocket reality of the drifter wich took shape from his thoughts..
Canp Vor is the only who embraced the raw void and thrived in it as it's guardian of it's pure form...

Vor is the MC of the universe..?

[ocean geyser]

IIRC Wally never was the owner of the Void
He’s a Conceptual Embodiment of the Fear of the Void, particularly Albrecht’s

He probably would like to say he owns it

[pale cedar]

Wally never was the owner the Void predates Wally

[rapid orbit]

So by that Albrech is Wallie's papa.. XD

[ocean geyser]

😭

[restive river]

Well we don’t know exactly what he is, if he existed prior or what
But he was def shaped by Albrecht’s fear

He likely existed the same as the void did
Nothing
Then boom one blue guy falls in super scared and now he’s suddenly a thing?

[ocean geyser]

I mean that’s not far out of line with how the Void actually works

Although it’s entirely possible he existed, but not necessarily in the way he does now

[restive river]

Yes that’s what I mean

The way I see it he may have existed in a similar way to how we existed before becoming something
Like
We were once stardust, literally
He was nothing, literally
Then boom, took us a while but we became ourselves eventually
Wally was just more. Instant due to conceptual embodiment and Albrecht going through everything he was going through

[rapid orbit]

Time is a bit conseptualy problematic in the void as the void it's self is kinda between all the time lines, mean out of it and wat was before or after is finda the perception process of individual..

[restive river]

Like I don’t think Wally was just manifested due to Albrecht’s fear, he saw himself as a void and what he found was a being of the void that looked exactly like him, that dug into his mind

Also yes time in the void is weird
Eleanor uses the void to speak to an alt version of herself but iirc on the way there (she was doing it mentally not physically) Wally was there too?
I don’t remember the exact convo so I may have that wrong

I just remember she, and by she I more so mean her telepathic mind entered the void before anything else

[rapid orbit]

She's a frame, her power originates from the void, and the parallel her self is the alter time line like difter-operator case...

[restive river]

She’s powered by the void, her powers were designed

[silk atlas]

Do we even know if Warframes can use their powers without the Void? I figure they could since the Void wasn't really used for anything before Albrecht did funny stuff

[restive river]

There were no frames before Albrecht did his funny stuff

[silk atlas]

Oh so post-Void pre-Zariman

[restive river]

The frames were made during the old war

Which is after the void was discovered to be more than a void

Also there were no frames at the time of the Zariman?

Like the old war started after that too

[silk atlas]

I thought they made the frames when the Old War was a bit in (Accounting for Necramechs), they failed because no controller, then the children came back.

[restive river]

Iirc the Orokin sent the sentients, literally got impatient so they made the Zariman, the incident happened and the rest is history

[restive river]

I don’t think we know exactly when they made the frames but yeah that’s mostly correct

The frames seemed fine on their own for a while, then the insurrections happened and the frames were shelved
Then the Zariman came back with the kids, Margulis took us in and everything with her and Ballas about the tenno happened

But anyway yeah at the time of the Zariman there was no war so no frames

[brazen seal]

crazy to think that all the frames we have/will have were made within the old war

we already have 62 I think

[ocean geyser]

I’m suddenly thinking about how confused Ballas will be in his trailers, since so many Warframes weren’t made by him

He’s literally losing his shit in the Rev Prime trailer

[normal mountain]

There's only a handful that weren't Ballas-made
Revenant being one
Also Xaku and Qorvex
He'd definitely freak over Temple though

[rapid orbit]

as said POWER., not abilities wich are not exactly "designed" but rather came to be as frames are controlled infested "evolution" so i think more likely the first ones (umbra, primes) came to be as they are (the spectrum of abilities) based on the person that was used (like umbra, Flare) and tuned up later.. then the rest manufactured ones are mere but husks used under the same patterns of tech and matter to be wat they are

[normal mountain]

Recall that Umbra was literally one of the LAST frames ever made

[rapid orbit]

My miss then...

[pale cedar]

Not all Primes were first

[normal mountain]

Right, that too

[rapid orbit]

Yet still makin a frame as i understood need a matching to criterias person..

[rapid orbit]

Like lavos? (That cheeky bastard)

[restive river]

I still would love the idea of us conceptually embodying a frame at some point!

[ocean geyser]

And Stalker and Jade
Several warframes were deliberately created unprimed

[normal mountain]

Maybe
We don't actually know much about the frame-making process
There's the design
But the infected person can also influence the final outcome, like Mirage

[restive river]

All abilities are in fact designed, by the person who designed and made the frame.

[ocean geyser]

Mirage was just built different

I wonder if she even had an operator tbh

It sorta just felt like she was kicking ass entirely on her own

[normal mountain]

She did
Hidden Messages all but says it outright

At least, that was my take

[rapid orbit]

As far as i kno, umbra's the only operatorless by origin..

[pale cedar]

Lavos is more of an example of a base frame making itself Prime

I’m referring to the fact some Primes started Prime

Others earned it rather than did it themselves

[ocean geyser]

Idk
It felt like the Lotus cared more about losing Mirage herself tbh

Although
Transference does muddy memories a bit

[restive river]

Before the Tenno were utilized there were many frames that didn’t have operators

[rapid orbit]

Aha, wasn't aware of the part some being primed...

[rapid orbit]

The went mad eventualy...

[normal mountain]

It did
But I'd have expected Lotus to remember what happened to Mirage, not rely on Void-transmissions

[restive river]

Kullervo
Dante
Jade
Stalker
Maybe Dagath
I’m sure there’s others I’m just spacing on, point is that they existed

[restive river]

Yes
Eventually
They still existed and worked well for a time

[normal mountain]

Except Dante, hilariously

[restive river]

Worked well enough they decided to try again at least
Which
Didn’t work in the Orokin’s favor but that does for literally everything they do

[restive river]

Didn’t he go mad in a different way?

[ocean geyser]

To be fair she might as well have almost forgotten as much as we did so

[restive river]

Like he found a book he shouldn’t have and was just
Gone

[normal mountain]

He had help going mad
I don't count it

[restive river]

LMAO

Thanks Wally

[rapid orbit]

Tho who knows, many frame could strat as primes but we ofcourse first get the factory budget assemblies..
As the word prime is literraly first...

[restive river]

I was listing frames without operators

[rapid orbit]

Sorry misclick (I'm on the phone)

[restive river]

[eternal sand]

Are the rathuum broadcasts system wide? Would it be possible for the tenno to have a TV in the orbiter to catch rathuum broadcasts... For kicks

[ocean geyser]

Maybe in grineer controlled territory?

[eternal sand]

Watching rathuum in my orbiter with a tray of nutrient cubes like I'm watching the WWE

[misty salmon]

"that one's a heel, and that one's a heel, and that one's a heel... and, oh sol, where did the grineer come up with a babyface, it's hideous"

[lean garden]

actually, in the most ironic sense, Dante did go mad, just a very different flavour

[lean garden]

prime doesnt necessarily mean "first"

the phrase "He was in his prime in his 20s" cannot possibly use prime as "first" but it does denote prime as "best"

[rapid orbit]

True, the primes are the theoretical peak of the things in game tho for orokin more suiting by their suprimacy they'd want to make a the best of best and then the cheaper bootlegs cas of need in more massive productions.. u kno simple industrial logick..
Also if to think the example u gave stays only in same context "in it's prime" but if "IS prime" It's "primordial", fundamental, like prime numbers in math or Optimus "Prime" as the First in command..

[eternal sand]

"the accused is about to get the pardon ticket BUT IN COMES GORTH WITH A STEEL CHAIR!"

[cosmic granite]

This is pbb a stupid question but I just have to ask, is it possible that animals could be warframes?

[tall echo]

The helminth charger pet is the closest thing you'll get

Rhyme not intended

[eternal sand]

I wonder if the host has to be alive for the helminth to take over. Could a corpse become a warframe? I doubt the infested has reserves about eating bodies

[silk atlas]

There isn't any mention of them using dead people for it, and Infested creatures can just die even under the influence of Infested so I imagine dead things are treated as material rather than a thing to take over.

[faint pulsar]

Thought about this concept art for this hypothetical series… any story ideas that would be great for the Stalker?
https://x.com/atlasaerovos/status/1946650238216810844?s=46

Atlas Art and Animation (Comms - OPEN) (@AtlasAerovos)

The Wondering Shadow... a little proof of concept regarding the wonderings of Stalker as he navigates his new found purpose while evading those who plan to take what's left of his lover... #warframefanart #Warframe #warframeart @PlayWarframe @MrWarframeGuy

X · Jul 19, 2025, 7:15 PM

[humble sierra]

Not necessarily, I don't think Ballas intended to encourage Yareli Prime by giving her anything that matched her personality but she persevered through it

[humble sierra]

The Mandalorian but with more bounty hunting and less being a hero

[daring wave]

Hey i have a question dose the teno can grow old and die of old age or not because the void powers ?

[rapid orbit]

by that i meant that the frame made in the process relies on the persona as how they will evolve into a frame before the tunning of abilities and chasis..

[misty salmon]

Tenno can die of bodily decay (see Rell), but most of us are still rather young on account of being either in some form of stasis (Operators) or being in Duviri (Drifters) where time doesn't pass at the same rates.

[humble sierra]

I don't think so, it seems like Ballas was quite in control of their designs

[tall echo]

Tenno are mortal

Hard to kill but mortal

[humble sierra]

He gave Gara glass powers on a whim, and it seems like the designs might actually affect their personality too, rather than the other way around (as seen with the Temple design having "rebellion built into its DNA")

[tall echo]

Only time a host affected the frame was the og mirage prime

...man I still gotta farm her

[silk atlas]

Mirage is one of the ones where the person can influence the frame, but it's never specified how many of them are or aren't intentional designs.

That being said, if it was that easy for the host to completely ignore what the design is for... why would they even bother designing things.

[humble sierra]

Flare email btw in case anyone forgot

[daring wave]

I see i was thinking that tenno can last longer because of the voids power but it seems that in a hundred years all teno will be gone unless we use some tech that can help

[humble sierra]

Rell lasted a very long time by permanently staying in his Warframe, so we might just end up doing that with our Warframe in the future

[tall echo]

Well we had cryo pods

[humble sierra]

Probably never in gameplay

[misty salmon]

we have no idea what our average lifetime actually is. Some of the Corpus I think are a couple hundred years old and considered "young".

[tall echo]

Also lifespans are much longer in wf

[daring wave]

Well as a tenno i wonder what is the better option to grow old and die in the most natural way or the go to stasis to remain alive

[tall echo]

Excluding grineer but they're born with a midlife crisis

[humble sierra]

After defeating the Indifference, and then ending all conflict in the galaxy, we'll probably get put into another cryopod until Warframe 2 comes out

[daring wave]

I was told human life spand is still a Hundred years for normal human

[misty salmon]

and the time span between "rell isn't in cryo" and "rell had to transfer into his frame because his body was failing" is also unknown.

[daring wave]

Yeah

[tall echo]

There's no sources on that so you were lied to

[daring wave]

So how you know the life spand is longer in wf

[humble sierra]

Darvo is almost 105 by the time of the "Ties that Bind"

[daring wave]

He have tech

[tall echo]

One example, darvo is that old but gets treated like a teen by his dad

[humble sierra]

Humans could have evolved since 1999 to not age as quickly

[tall echo]

Time also moves slower in space and stuff

[daring wave]

Well yeah plus there's kanzu but we dont know his age

[tall echo]

It's very possible that all the space travel is solely responsible for the longer lifespans

[humble sierra]

We don't even know how much time has passed since Awakening

Everything from Awakening through to the end of the New War could take place over a couple weeks

[daring wave]

I assume a few years

[tall echo]

Grineer really got the shor- wait that's not a good word in this context

[daring wave]

😂😂😂 say it 😈

Ok so just because of darvos is the only evidence i will assume that humans and teno life spand is between 150 to 200 years because if darvos is 105 and his father treat his like a teen i think 150 to 200 is reasonable

Like normal life spand if you lucky then 250 lol

[misty salmon]

We've got whatever Orokin tech was added to our systems as part of the war effort (Teshin supposedly has been alive and awake since the Old War), access to tech that's probably closer to that level than the Corpus currently have, access to any tech the corpus have (no, that isn't a Loki in your airlock, why would you think that)... and our various void tricks to get out of actually taking real injuries. I'd say odds are favourable we're one of the more long lived groups in the system.

[tall echo]

Tenno are humans no need to differentiate

[daring wave]

Well that's an interesting way to out it but i agree with u that why for now without any other evidence then darvo i will assume that the teno life apand is 200 years normally and to get to really old age thenn 300 i guess

[daring wave]

Well yeah that's why im assuming these numbers because if darvo is treated like a teen at 105 then who knows

It might be only his dad that treats him like that

[tall echo]

The reason people fear the tenno is because it's like seeing a highly developed newborn

[daring wave]

😂 damn baby with big guns

I wonder if there any other evidence there are in this subject

[misty salmon]

the babyface was us all along

[daring wave]

😂 yes

[ashen pulsar]

I mean, it would’ve taken a while for narmer to take over

At least a year, probably way more

[daring wave]

Ok i made my mind but without any lore who knows i assume that tenno life spand is like an elf in anime because many stuff so a round 300 maybe 400 or 50p years

[daring wave]

I still want to know what happened to the rest of the tenno when that happened because we the main player went through the portal to the loop but what happened to the rest why nora said all tenno left without saying goodbye

[ashen pulsar]

Have any other Tenno woken up yet?

[daring wave]

Yes all of us lotus help all of us of lua after the second dream quest that's why you see the tenno pods empty

[strange plinth]

that isn't outright confirmed tmk, but its a safe assumption that the other tenno would be woken up as well

[daring wave]

Well yeah because we see in many places other tenno and some NPC's talk about the operator

[ashen pulsar]

Gameplay ≠ lore

[daring wave]

Lol i only assume because the lore in this game got allot of empty holes 😂

[ashen pulsar]

Every player is the chosen one in their story

[strange plinth]

the one responsible for making a deal and giving them all powers disappears, their powers may have disappeared too. if they didn't, narmer is still a gigantic force for them to be fighting
they're probably in hiding during the events of TNW

[ashen pulsar]

Yeah

[daring wave]

True but im talking about NPC's like the lady in Fortuna she wont bee selling stuff for the operator if only one was awake

[strange plinth]

little duck is closely connected with the quills, she'd be selling it if the operator was the only one or not

[daring wave]

That's true i didn't think about that the power gone part seems more likely because if the others was still fighting nora would know lol she knows everything

[woven coyote]

Or you know
All the operations that have happened that mention other tenno

[daring wave]

Idk about that sure she is close to him but no poit of selling for only one

[tall echo]

They'd let her know to sell to us even if we're the only one

The quills can literally see whst needs to be done to ensure the ideal future

[daring wave]

Sorry my English is not great can you simplify it lol

[tall echo]

It can't be simplified any more

[woven coyote]

Operations, also known as events

Basically in universe events that need more than one tenno to exist in lore

[daring wave]

I see well i still believe that all tenno is awake after second dream because all of the pods in lua are empty and other reason's

[woven coyote]

Not to mention the events that directly call out about multiple tenno

[daring wave]

Ohh ok i see

[tall echo]

Most tenno might be awake but maybe not all

[woven coyote]

True

[tall echo]

There's quite a lot

[daring wave]

How many tenno are there we know the numbers ?

[ashen pulsar]

No

[daring wave]

Damn

[ashen pulsar]

Thousands, probably

[strange plinth]

we have a rough estimate from the zariman arg iirc
i do not remember the rough estimate

[tall echo]

Less than there are players

[ashen pulsar]

Oh?

[tall echo]

From the zariman arg it's 4 or 5 digits iirc

[woven coyote]

Its a number of digits blocked by a bar similar to how we can mark spoilers in discord "||38474||" as an example of what it looked like

[daring wave]

Probably true but i remember hearing some lore about the old war when someone say that some people was thinking that tenno are not real because not allot have seen one

[tall echo]

That's true

The warframes were rarely deployed into situations with lesser soldiers or civilians

[daring wave]

Well seen one and survived to tell the tale lol

[woven coyote]

Obligatory
https://youtu.be/XpejvjSxQRQ?si=yTyl2FXMo7bSxMpT

I will never forget this moment in warframe history

[daring wave]

And that's 2 years ago

[misty salmon]

and how many of those donated their warframe to Vor?

[tall echo]

-7

[daring wave]

Well we can make a new one as long as the operator is alive we good

[humble sierra]

LMAO IT WAS AT TGA? I thought it was just some Devstream or something, it's so much funnier knowing that she said this to one of the largest possible audiences

[stiff beacon]

Yes the legendary Freudian slip

[tall echo]

Wait I saw that one

How did I forget that I saw it

Or did I

[stiff beacon]

Though I can't remember if it was also railjacks release night

[tall echo]

Uh

[rapid orbit]

saw it live XD

[tall echo]

I'm too tired to thinl

Or to type ig

Prolly didn't see it

[daring wave]

So i guess we can assume that the tenno numbers are between tens of thousands or a few hundred thousands

[woven coyote]

8 years actually, looks like the one i linked is a reupload

[daring wave]

Ohh damnnn

[tall echo]

Ok didnt see it then

[daring wave]

Lol

My assumption will be that tenno can live for a few hundred years when it come to old age and our numbers are between a few Tens of thousands to several hundred thousands untill now evidence will come lol

[tall echo]

I appreciate that you don't insist the tenno are immortal like weirdly many people do

[daring wave]

Lol im a man of lore and the lore dont point us being immortal but thanks 😁

[tall echo]

Yeah many people ignore obvious evidence and outright stated facts

The downsides of having deep lore in a looter shooter

[daring wave]

Lol true i still pray we get a lore update one day on a bunch of stuff because the lore in this game got allot of holes lol

[tall echo]

Most plotholes are either setup for future explanation or lost lore from limited time stuff

[strange plinth]

alad v's entire plotline

[daring wave]

Yeah that's true plus there are small stuff that dont matters really like some npcs age or life spand

[tall echo]

Alad is an extra special case

[daring wave]

😂😂 yup

[silk atlas]

Alad is the major one, everyone else is okay in that regard, really.

[tall echo]

My eyes are starting to hate me for my sleep schedule so ig I'll vanish now

[daring wave]

But i still want to know the reason balass made each Warframe like why did he made them the way they are the look the powers who did he pick to transform to that said Warframe

[daring wave]

Lol good night

[silk atlas]

He made Gara because he thought it'd be funny to piss off Nihil, so clearly he's not above just making joke Warframes because he's bored. As for who he picked, it likely did not matter in most cases because, as I said earlier, if they could be so easily influenced then there'd be no point in having a design.

[daring wave]

Yeah that's true but those he did design i wonder what lead to him making them the way he did lol

[strange plinth]

yareli (prime) and umbra are the only two that i remember being specifically chosen

[daring wave]

Why yareli

[silk atlas]

That's just one of those questions that just asks more questions, frankly. It's not like Warframes are unique, and the range of reasons were very broad from "I hate this guy" to "It'd be funny"

[hexed oxide]

grendel is another example, someone told him his frames were too genteel so he made a cannibal

[daring wave]

Yeah lol but a guy can hope for an answer

[hexed oxide]

does gara count ?

[strange plinth]

she was supposed to be a yuvan for ballas, she was unprofessional during the ceremony, so he warframe'd her instead

[strange plinth]

gara volunteered and was half brought up by sealskin already
but yea

[hexed oxide]

we could've had r63 ballas now that i think about it

[daring wave]

Now that i think about it do we know why he told hunthow (probably misspelled his name) to spare only hildrin when he gave him the secrets of the tenno weakness

[hexed oxide]

hunhow*

[daring wave]

Damn idk if that's lucky or not lol

[daring wave]

Yeah that thanks

[hexed oxide]

if it wasn't because of the going crazy and taken over by a hive mind part, i'd volunteer to turn into a frame any day

[daring wave]

True I rather become one then ballas new body

[strange plinth]

frames aren't part of the infested hive afaik
but yes the madness is a significant deterrant lol

[daring wave]

But some had a level of reason like stalker or jade

[hexed oxide]

even without the being a yuvan thing in the way i would volunteer lol

[daring wave]

Well yeah Warframe are powerful as f and they cant grow old and die so if you can become one and stay in control and not go crazy hell yeah make me into nidus anyday

[hexed oxide]

stalker and jade feel like they are a minority with their not going insane bit, stalker is not all good up there either

[strange plinth]

having something to focus on seems to keep the madness away
stalker had his hate, jade her child, kullervo his guilt, umbra his "single burning memory"
dunno if dante was ever at risk of madness prior to him.. disappearing. getting taken. whatever happened at the end of his leverian. but he'd have his studies regardless

i feel like i'm forgetting another one

[daring wave]

Well true but it shows it can happen specially after the operator help them calm down like we did to umbra

[hexed oxide]

"may i inspect that copy of your cranium ?"

[strange plinth]

i mean-

[daring wave]

True but then there's the operator we can help then calm down and as ballas said we found a way to take the ugly and make them complete

Like we did to umbra

[hexed oxide]

that's mostly ballas' way of explaining the orokin did not understand that alien power the tenno had (basically they did not understand the concept of empathy)

[daring wave]

Yup

Still hold my point lol

[lean garden]

but they are tho

thats why lizzie threatens you with your warframe

[restive river]

Helminth is still infested and all infested, no matter the strain seems to be linked to the hive mind

That being said Helminth is also the. Most civilized? Kindest?? Part of the hive mind

[strange plinth]

true. i forgot about that

was it thought that they were more disconnected before lizzie or am i completely making that up?

[lean garden]

because before lizzie talks to us we assumed that warframes were separate because of the helminth strain

turns out we're just hoodwinked by the borgiest of them all

[fiery stream]

Just a food for thought,but why do the orokins have weird body proportions?like Ballas having one arm bigger than the other

[strange plinth]

fashion. that's it
the entrati fam are big because of the deimos grey strain

where are you in the story outside of duviri?
mostly, have you done The Sacrifice?

ok, kullervo's just sentient/sapient. he controls himself
got tossed into the void during the night of naga drums by ballas, landed in duviri

[worthy frigate]

Hey, I was thinking about something.

"Our only means of escape... our only hope to contain this horror I have created... will require a spark of energy rare in this timeline. You know what this means."

"...horror I have created..." refers to the situation in 1999 or the Indifference itself?

[humble sierra]

The latter, I don't think he'd view anything in 1999 as a horror

[pale cedar]

He’s referring to Wally

[proper barn]

Cuz they want to. Some don't.

Same reason they have blue skin. @fiery stream

[fiery stream]

Oh, thought it was just a symptom of the infestation

[proper barn]

The Orokin aren't infested at all. Well most of them. Well most of them are dead i assume some are infested or where. But not related to infestation at all they just had a lot of body modding.

They are just normal humans that say their important. Like Albretch just looks like a normal guy cuz he wants to. @fiery stream

[fiery stream]

Everything in Warframe is technically just human right?except for the Tau ofc

[proper barn]

Yeah. I mean even sentients are originally made by humans.

During the orokin empire even but anyway.

[fiery stream]

Are sentients and Tau the same?

[proper barn]

What do you mean?

[fiery stream]

Like same creature or species

[proper barn]

The sentients go to tau that's whos at tau.

Like tau is just a system of planets.

[fiery stream]

Ohh okay

[proper barn]

Okay Sentients where sent to tau by orokin. Orokin later try to come take tau and that's how the old war happens. There is a solar rail to tau but it's broken on our side It was broken during the old war

[fiery stream]

The old war is the old peace right?

[proper barn]

That's a werid sentence

The old peace happens during the old war at some point.

As a small peacetime it seems.

[restive river]

Iirc it presumably led to the rail being destroyed

The peace being broken that is

[proper barn]

Ohhhhh

[proper barn]

Good idea. We'll hunhow destoryed the rail near the end of the war didn't he?

I don't know if we are given a time to when he did it.

[restive river]

Yeah

It would have to be at the end lol

“Those halcyon days long turned to ash, now preserved in clearest resin. This exhibit commemorates our glorious landing on Tau: that deep and beautiful shore, that greatest Orokin project, now darkened to our light with the ignoble sabotage of its Solar Rail.”

[proper barn]

This seems more like when the Orokin thought they won.

[worthy frigate]

Ty

[worthy frigate]

Ty

I thought that too. wanted to be sure.

[restive river]

Yes this would be after the tail was destroyed and before the night of the naga drums

[proper barn]

@restive river this probably won't happen but the coolest outcome is like the old peace quest like ends with like peace breaking down us feeling back to the origin system and the solar rail being destroyed and then we play the night of Naga drums.

Like just cuz of how angry we are about peace the breaking down and like thinking about mariglus and such.

[restive river]

The time between those two events is likely too large

[proper barn]

Okay I am calling my shot in that we might actually meet the lotus during the quest that might happen.

[restive river]

We don’t even know if the Margulis exists yet at the time of the old piece, let alone if she’s the lotus yet

[proper barn]

"Here's your new handler her name is lotus"

[restive river]

Wasn’t she introduced under the guise of being Margulis essentially?

[proper barn]

She would have to wouldn't she? She like was one of the first scientists to see them.

[restive river]

Sentient mimic, original plan to destabilize the tenno

[restive river]

Was she? Can you quote that?

*source
Not quote
Unless there is a specific quote

[proper barn]

? Maybe?

[restive river]

Oh sorry i meant not natah not margulis

I’m very tired and out of sorts rn
No yeah margulis met the tenno first

[proper barn]

Okay yeah that's my question is like will we meet Natah/Lotus during the old peace?

Cuz I think it's possible.

[restive river]

It depends

Hunhow def exists

But it depends on if Natah was made purely to go infiltrate and destabilize

So either she was made cause some sentients wanted to rebel anyway, she existed regardless or she doesn’t exist yet but will post old peace

It is curious that Margulis is somehow connected to the old peace despite her
Being dead-

[proper barn]

I think in the flash back we might get like flashes or while coming out of it like we did we get haunted by visions of her.

[restive river]

Yeah, could just be trauma related

Actually

[proper barn]

I think if we do 1 more flash of vision or something it will be at the end and have like some of the Naga drums stuff is my guess.

[restive river]

Her being blinded and then the Lotus being introduced with the helmet to explain “oh yeah Margulis has this now to see!” As a made up excuse from Ballas to the Tenno

[restive river]

If it’s trauma related idk if I’d have that in relation

Night of the naga drums would be traumatizing in a different way

Which also relies on the tenno feeling for their classist golden lords

[proper barn]

WAIT I could see it instead as like a "oh hey as part od the peace We have Lotus here as your new handler"

[restive river]

We certainly have no issue slicing through whatever’s opposing us or the innocent

[proper barn]

I disagree about the innocent thing but sure.

[restive river]

Was she not introduced under the guise of being Margulis? Since the Tenno didn’t know and she explicitly was modeled after Margulis

[restive river]

More so civillians but yeah

We keep the peace by whatever means necessary
So I doubt comitting classiside really did much on the trauma front, for us at least

[proper barn]

I don't think so. All the tenno know the orokin killed marigulus.

[restive river]

Was that not a later event??

[proper barn]

No?

[restive river]

Cause the whole point is she’s meant to infiltrate the tenno

[proper barn]

Okay so can we go into like

A bit of speculation but kinda backed up in the sacrifice stuff?

[restive river]

She literally looks like her
Ballas modeled her that way for a reason

[proper barn]

I think that's for him

Not for the tenno.

[pale cedar]

I think it is a bit of both

[proper barn]

But there's a seemingly sizable amount of time where the tenno are doing stuff after margilus is killed but before Lotus comes into the picture. So like during the sacrifice umbra is turned into umbra from finding the orokin iPad Ballas gave to hunhow or was gonna give him later. Which is really funny now imagining hunhow trying to read a iPad. So I think this leads to them "working together" to make Natah/Lotus and bring down the Orokin empire but Ballas betrays Hunhow cuz obviously. I wonder when this all happens/is wet into motion. Like it could be a very interesting story is Ballas is leaking this stuff during the peace time knowing it's gonna break down later.

[pale cedar]

On one hand she was meant to infiltrate the Tenno ranks

On the other Ballas wanted a Margulis he could control

[proper barn]

@restive river

[proper barn]

I think Ballas also wanted the downfall of the orokin empire as seen in the sacrifice. Cuz nothing Is ever his fault.

[restive river]

Having a hard time finding anything exact on her being made to be like Margulis beyond speculation, I can see it being an aspect since
She should have her memories iirc?

Anyway
Found this

"So the Golden wrath came. And after, I was born. A mimic, a spy. Conceived to burrow into nests and swallow the pitch-eggs of their war machine. The Tenno. But when I saw your tender faces, I took mercy. Or so we were told."

She was explicitly made to destabilize the Tenno

[proper barn]

I swear in the sacrifice it's kinda implied that like Ballas starts working with hunhow to take down the Tenno. Like Hunhow doesn't know the tenno exist

Until Ballas tells him.

Also the Moon is already in the Void.

[restive river]

He should though unless Ballas was planning this before the Old Peace
Alternatively Hunhow wasn’t part of the Sentients that bought Orokin propaganda

[proper barn]

It could be concurrent.

Hmmmm

Interesting.

[restive river]

Didn’t Lotus do that to protect the tenno after the war

[pale cedar]

Wasn’t the Moon only placed into the Void after the attack as it is only moved in after Hunhow attacked to prevent Hunhow physically attacking

[proper barn]

In the sacrifice he says in the Void I think.

[restive river]

Anyway the vibe I’m getting from this is that she was maybe made in response to whatever happens in Old Peace

[pale cedar]

The Moon was shown out of the Void in Old War cinematic iirc

[restive river]

It was yes

It also does just
Have the capacity to move in and out

[pale cedar]

Lotus definitely moved it there to prevent Hunhow getting to it

[restive river]

I’m sure it takes a while to properly do but they do just have the tech

[restive river]

For sure

And everyone else

[pale cedar]

Vitruvian was a recording from past events

We’d already lived through it and probably forgot

[proper barn]

Okay so this says the Void but later he says like he means the tenno basically came from the Void and then gives him the Lau location.

[pale cedar]

That’s not talking about the Moon in the Void

[proper barn]

It's the thing umbra found that Ballas was giving to Hunhow and tried to expose him for.

[proper barn]

Yee I agree.

I just thought it was in my memory.

@pale cedar I like posting proof of me being wrong or right.

[lean garden]

Lotus: "I remember… my old self… dissolving… beneath your fingers. Shaping me. Directing me. Lua."

Ballas: "Yes, let's discuss 'what I did'. I, who have endured your torture of me. Your lies. Your betrayals. Without complaint. All for you. And this is my reward."

Well I dont know if she was immediately built to be like marge, but Ballas definitely locked it in

She'd have to look human else thered be alot of raised eyebrows

[steel stone]

https://discord.gg/5NsNy8m2?event=1421213544665579652

@flat cloud @late socket @heady yew @coral inlet

[eternal sand]

I wonder if you're supposed to eat nutrient cubes individually or if you're supposed to double up while grabbing them.
Also how many calories in a block?

[silk atlas]

Probably as much as a block of the normally-shaped food would be. They're not tiny and we unfortunately have a real-life example of this

Well, had a real life example given the company went under

The idea is that you have a variety like any other food since that's how they were set up on the plate in TNW

[tall echo]

Well they're not normal food they're pure cubes of specific nutrients

I doubt that they had very bearable flavors

[silk atlas]

I highly doubt they're just the nutrients, like how a protein bar isn't just pure protein

[normal mountain]

Protein bars also have carbs and fiber and a touch of fat

If the Zariman protein cubes had all that, there'd be no need for the carb cubes and fat cubes
(Idr if there's fiber cubes or not)

[silk atlas]

There are but if you just ate straight protein bars all the time there would be something that gets screwed up with your body

We add stuff like vegetable oil when cooking meats all the time

[strange turtle]

It could be that the info was hush-hush on the Sentient side as well?

And the Sentients who did know either died or didn’t want to rat out their students

[vast willow]

So the Narmer Veil tells the story of Ballas and Margulis, just that they swap sides right

So that the people of the Origin System will believe like

Lotus is jealous of Ballas

Ballas stopped the Lotus and saved the universe and shit

[lean garden]

the narmer veil tells the wearer whatever they want to control them

it doesnt blast out ballas copium unless thats what the wearer wants to see

[vast willow]

So..

Drifter wanted to see Ballas loving him?

[tall echo]

It twisted the operator's memories around to make it seem like ballas is the good guy

[vast willow]

huh

[tall echo]

Veil couldn't differentiate between drifter and operator just like ordis

Veils work by showing the victim something to make them easier to control

[stiff beacon]

for easier reference, the veils are the gaslight and gate keep portion of ballas's plan

[tall echo]

Minus the gatekeep part

The plan was very much the opposite of gatekeeping

[ionic coral]

It was extremely hevey on the gaslighting part

[shut isle]

We didn't beat ballas enough actually

[sly ibex]

Let's avoid bringing in politically charged stuff from the real world. 😛 Just going to delete a few messages for that.

[candid dove]

what would kubrow eggs tastelike and can i use them to make a cake

[restive river]

No

[proper barn]

That's fair.

[proper barn]

I don't think anyone eats kubrow eggs.

[oblique siren]

Whoops, I'm sorry! I'll try to keep that in mind.

[eternal sand]

Wonder what a Warframe tastes like. They are full of meat so if you cracked one open, too a chunk, cooked it and tasted it, how would it taste?

For ease of understanding, what would solid snake say if he bit into a haunch of Excalibur

[oblique siren]

Hmmmmmmm
Burnt licorice. (/j, I'm being silly)

[humble sierra]

I mean it's ultimately a bit of human flesh in there

The infestation also apparently doesn't taste that great, going by Velimir's extensive research in that field

[normal mountain]

Consider
Velimir barbecued some Techrot
It was, in his own words, "vile"

[hexed oxide]

maybe it was because of the burnt plastic ?

[normal mountain]

I'd like to think that he'd be a better cook than that
Leaving the plastic in the meat

[hexed oxide]

im sure it was the plastic

no one gives the infestation a proper chance. everyone rejects eleanor's tongue patty, velimir's grilledrot, warframe steak. like come on

[misty salmon]

The flavour of things can be affected by what goes into them.
Lizzie: BURP.

[past halo]

Okay I got to ask, what are the slabs the Epitaph fires made of?

[restive river]

If it doesn’t say in the weapon’s description then we probably don’t know

[past halo]

Knowing Sevagoth's MO they could probably be concentrated Void

[restive river]

Eeh

He wasn’t void themed. He was just lost in the void.

“Sevagoth's wrist-mounted sidearm fires a chilling slow-moving slab, guaranteed to slow enemies for easier marksmanship. Charge the shot to fire a punishing high-velocity, high critical chance slab that punches through barriers. Deals additional headshot damage in Sevagoth's hands.”

[past halo]

The Void Storm he got lost in probably did something to them, I don't know

[restive river]

It doesn’t look corrupted at all so idk

Anyway, you aren’t going to get an exact answer cause there just isn’t one

From what i can tell on the wiki the blueprint’s only resource is Orokin cells

So you could say it shoots “Ancient energy cell from the Orokin era.”
But I’m sure the reality is that the slabs are made of some type metal, powered by cells and the devs probably didn’t put that much thought into it other than “cool slab launcher”

It’s like asking what material are the bullets to the Velox

Just cause it was in the void doesn’t mean it’s of or was corrupted by it in any way

Like you just kinda get the parts from void storms, it was as lost as Sev himself so
Not much to go on

[violet storm]

Listening to the naberus story of the mobile, brutal

[eternal sand]

I find it hilarious that on flairs birthday, Lizzie ate an entire car tire, rim and all. I’m curious as to how. How did she fit the tire rim into flairs mouth or at least cut it so it could be eaten one bite at a time. Secondly, how was flair able to walk around with an entire tire in them

[violet storm]

I assume the Helminth produces certain enzymes meant to break down the materials

[restive river]

^^

[violet storm]

Considering all the things we feed our Helminth, it’s really the only sensible option

[raw spire]

guys which one came first, prime frames or non-prime frames ?

there are mixed answers to that
some people say that primes were made and the non-prime frames are tenno's efforts to make a copy from those lost orokin designs
some say that non-prime frames were made first and then perfected and got their prime variants

which one is true ?

and btw are the frames we using infested humans as well ? or nahh they're just biological weapons without sacrificing any humans ? (like the frames that we play with )
and if they are not infested humans, are prime variants that we play with, made from infested humans ?

and another question, ik that non-prime variants that were made by orokin were infested humans (civilians or warriors ) but how about the prime variants ? did orokin make those from infesting people as well ?

[humble sierra]

Some Primes came first, some Primes came later.

[raw spire]

so both theories are kinda right ?

[humble sierra]

Recently, Lavos is an example of a base Warframe who primed himself via alchemy

Sevagoth Prime was the original and then got corrupted in the Void to become base Sevagoth

[humble sierra]

All Warframes are infested humans. It's not really clear what the ones we make in the Foundry are.

That might just be gameplay, but there's a couple things that point out the fact we make them.

[raw spire]

wait, so they all had conscientiousness ? (not so shocking cause guess orokins failed to make them mindless weapons )

[raw spire]

so it's not apparent

the ones that we make could be infested humans and could be non-infested humans

[humble sierra]

Yes, their unique animation sets are the remnants of their original personalities

[raw spire]

thats cool

[humble sierra]

It's highly unlikely ours are actually crafted humans

[raw spire]

k we don't know if the base frames we make in the foundry are infested or not, how about the prime frames that we make in foundry ?

[raw spire]

btw, you said the animation sets are their conscientiousness breaking through, doesn't include base frames that we make in foundry ? or just plot ?

[humble sierra]

Same thing. All Warframes are originally infested humans, it's just not clear how exactly we craft them

[raw spire]

so both the prime and base frames were made from infested humans by orokins ?

[humble sierra]

My personal headcanon for the most part is that we don't craft them, we just find them, but there's stuff in-game that directly disputes this like Limbo and Umbra.

[raw spire]

yep

instead of making new contents (that i love ) they really should go back and explain all these

understanding wf lore is hardwer than elden ring fr

[lean garden]

ehhhh, I wouldnt say that

thats only Liger's inspiration for the Sevagoth Prime design, but that doesnt have any real weight in the actual prime lore

[lean garden]

we know all the frames we craft are infested

all

[lean garden]

because barring two frames who have transformative capabilities who went up a grade, theres no indication that primes can degrade into bases, mainly because theyre often if not always two different frame designs of the same frame

[ocean geyser]

I thought the frames were can make now are just
Infested mass that the helminth shapes into a human shape

[tacit pagoda]

theres this one KIM chat where our drifter says whenever they get on a warframe they get a bit of the human past memories/mannerisms. i love that

[strange turtle]

I mean they presumably are

Oh wait you meant the Ship Helminth nvm

Misread that

[proper barn]

Every Frame in their originally creation was a Person but when we remake them in our foundry we aren't stealing a guy to make them.

We are basically cloning the frame.

[slow bramble]

And bits of their identity

[ocean geyser]

Would be interestingly dark if we were though

Someone once suggested the idea of capture targets being the basis for new frames

[proper barn]

well of their idenity that they hold on to. see umbra.

[proper barn]

that's not true those get sent to relays also we know the foundry is specificlly made to interface with infested flesh and stuff.

[ocean geyser]

It was a suggestion, not something i was taking as truth
I do wanna know how you learned this tho

[proper barn]

i think it's said in citrines stuff but I can get a qoute one sec.

[proper barn]

oh i can't find it but i know there's a thing that talks about the foundry being able to replicate infested tissue.

[ocean geyser]

Yeah i know about that

[hollow wagon]

What is the Phorid, it just looks like a big charger...

[tall echo]

Correct

[humble sierra]

Early-development bosses were just bigger/color-swapped versions of normal enemies

Phorid and the Sergeant are examples of this

[silk atlas]

Then they because the boring stuff like pre-rework Vor and Sargus Ruk

[pearl lantern]

If you speak to the hex, i think with casey, you will go to a topic about warframes and you can say to him that most of them are made from people but the ones he made (we as players) are not made like that but made with blueprints, i have no clue how we made them then but by what the player character responds with it must mean me used some different way of making them

[humble sierra]

Yeah this is the chat with Quincy you're referring to

[pearl lantern]

yep

[humble sierra]

Don't think it goes into more detail than that

[pearl lantern]

it does not, but its still interesting

[humble sierra]

So it's a detail they're aware of is confusing, but aren't ready to clear up that confusion

[pearl lantern]

i mean this is also a fine enough "explanation"

[ocean geyser]

Quincy is so goated bro

I love how easy that guy is to talk to

[restive river]

Same

[celest needle]

Does this mean that Umbra just, walks around the Orbiter or something?

[humble sierra]

Yeah, he doesn't have much else to do

[oblique siren]

He's always welcome to come sit down with us at meal time

[cosmic badge]

He plays the shwazin to comfort us after rough days

[restive river]

We should let him out to “play” more

He can clearly get from planet to planet without us

[earnest sapphire]

I do wish that Umbra was relevant in the New War story wise

[spice spade]

Imagine if Umbra is the one we can have as a companion hahahaha

[hollow wagon]

I like to think Umbra acts as the Orbiters security guard

Whenever we're out on missions

[tall echo]

Lore wise he's always wandering about when we're not actively using him

Also orbiters don't need security

[restive river]

Ordis:

[tall echo]

He's not security

[restive river]

But yeah for the most part they don’t need security cause who’s dumb enough to get on our ship lol

[restive river]

He literally acts as security in jade shadows

He also has the ability to purge the ship

Like he is not security but he can act as security

[tall echo]

Smart enough to find it, dumb enough to board it

[ocean geyser]

A quick duel against umbra during the quest would have been SO fire

[hollow wagon]

What is the Zundi?

[pale cedar]

At best guess a failed or shut down Pistol Company

[brittle siren]

I wonder if the Orokin Protoframe would play hard to get

He probably gonna be really hard to gain trust

[gray silo]

I want to create a comic about warframes living their lives in the orbiter while the operator is away.

[strange turtle]

They also have a Quellor skin, so most likely another of the craftsman houses/schools

[strange turtle]

How far are you in the story?

[tall echo]

All but one are incapable of autonomous movement

[pale cedar]

They all have capacity to move but without a reason to move they won’t move as shown in multiple quests

[normal mountain]

Do it
Who says your comic has to be canon compliant?

[strange turtle]

Tbf there’s a bunch of wf fanfic in which the warframes are still their own individuals or outright characters themselves, even after The Sacrifice

[ocean geyser]

I also do such things

[strange turtle]

Idk how exactly they make that work or if they just don’t address the issue because I don’t read them, but it’s a pretty common thing to do

[ocean geyser]

I don’t think they really address it? It sorta just happens

[tall echo]

There's fanfic?

Why

[strange turtle]

…because people want to write fanfic about warframe?

Or do you mean like, the fics where the frames are people specifically

[tall echo]

50% yes

Other 50% is just in general

There's better media than wf to write about

[normal mountain]

So what if there's better?
They want to write about Warframe

[ocean geyser]

That’s such a strange thing to say

[strange turtle]

Well yeah, but they’re not warframe

Destiny, for example, is a way better thing to write about because of how much more detail we have on a variety of things

But Destiny doesn’t have any of the cool stuff that makes people like Warframe

[ocean geyser]

Which is why people make crossovers

[strange turtle]

And no matter how similar two properties can be, ultimately the things that make people want to write fics aren’t the same

[ocean geyser]

warframe and destiny are pretty easy to make crossovers for given how often reality bending nonsense happen

[strange turtle]

The characters, the vibes or aesthetics and different groups factions and the setting and history of the world are all different

[ocean geyser]

Literally just “ooo wally oo void nonsense” or “The Witness did something”

[strange turtle]

It might be way easier to write about an ODST or some guy from Star Trek, but the writer doesn’t want to write about them, they want to write an Operator in slice of life situations with Umbra and Ordis, or the story of some random Corpus crewman or tech

[gray silo]

Its a comic. It can be fun.

[gray silo]

In my comic, they all are capable

[ocean geyser]

And that’s fine

[gray silo]

The reason to move is its a comic

[strange turtle]

Not even necessarily write, fanart and comics generally aren’t seen the same as it but they all fall under that umbrella

[gray silo]

I do. Only game compliance. De must change canon

[ocean geyser]

You don’t have to respond to all of those, Rodney’s spent the whole 10 minutes ranting lmao

[gray silo]

But for real, a living together drama about the warframes

[strange turtle]

Ik I just wanted to make sure you were like aware of the actual stuff before you committed

[strange turtle]

As for this one, I won’t pretend to get it myself but people just like to attribute personalities and character traits to warframes

[gray silo]

"Rhino did you eat my cheesecake??"

[strange turtle]

There’s potential stuff to work with based on their aesthetic, signature equipment, and theming while still being a largely blank slate to write a character on

[tall echo]

As long as it's clearly stated as off-canon I can accept it

[strange turtle]

Hell, DE did it a bit themselves with the Protos

[ocean geyser]

To be fair they
do have attributes and character traits
Their leftover personalities are still left behind no matter how many times they’re built, prime or otherwise

[normal mountain]

Actually, I know of a thing that might help you with part of this discrepancy
There was going to be an upgrade that made your warframes autonomous when you Transfer to Operator
Something to do with Somatic Fibers from Lua
It got canned due to how Umbra was received,
But you could simply... add it to your universe

[strange turtle]

…I wouldn’t really consider the warframe animations to be outright traits

[silk atlas]

They are though, Drifter mentions as much in the KIM

[ocean geyser]

Yeah

[strange turtle]

No

[silk atlas]

???

[ocean geyser]

Transference always leaves traces of the warframe’s personality behind on their Tenno

[silk atlas]

This was the whole thing with Umbra too

[ocean geyser]

Yeah it’s why we remember it as killing Isaah ourselves

[normal mountain]

They are though
They're leftover parts of the warframe's personality (or, well, the original person)

Does make me wonder if the original Oraxia person liked playing with grappling hooks though

[tall echo]

There's fractional leftovers but not much

[eternal sand]

Does this mean there's a non 0% chance that, through jade, our operator remembers being impregnated by the stalker?

[strange turtle]

“Memories, almost?, bits and pieces of personality”

“When I inhabit them, I can feel myself taking on… parts of who they used to be. Mannerisms. They way they used to stand. Move. Things like that”

[normal mountain]

💀

[tall echo]

No.

[ocean geyser]

I think Jade would prefer to keep that memory to herself dawg

[strange turtle]

The fact that I lean over slightly when I’m standing is hardly a notable thing about me, forget something as significant as an outright personality trait

[normal mountain]

but, theoretically speaking, if Jade herself remembered, there might be a nonzero chance
But yeah, Jade wouldn't share that

[tall echo]

I am strongly considering summoning a mod

[ocean geyser]

I don’t think this’ll be brought up again tbh

But that was admittedly an odd thing to say

[silk atlas]

You're severely downplaying how someone moving can be a tell on how they conduct themselves, I say

[strange turtle]

Also this was because we literally relived the entire memory, like Umbra’s whole thing is that he does not just have the little fragments that other frames do, he has that single whole memory

[strange turtle]

No

Those are indicators

Not the personality trait itself

[silk atlas]

Outside of the frames who can fully move themselves then it's all we've really got

To go off of, that is

[strange turtle]

If a frame had an animation set designed to look very gentle or whatever, the frame isn’t kind or whatever

[tall echo]

Hopefully

[strange turtle]

And I never argued against that, just that the frames have personality traits in of themselves

[ocean geyser]

Even with what you said, this doesn’t detract that much from what we said

Take Yareli for example
Just because she acts silly in her animations, and kills people, doesn’t mean she’s magically not a little silly

You can be silly and kill people

[strange turtle]

She isn’t

She’s not a person

Or an animal

[silk atlas]

That doesn't mean they don't have a personality? The Sentients? Hello?

[strange turtle]

There’s little pieces of the person Yareli used to be, but that person is gone

[ocean geyser]

That’s not the point any of us are making dawg

[silk atlas]

We are saying Yareli has a personality

[ocean geyser]

Yeah
We’re literally only saying the person is gone but the personality remains

[strange turtle]

By definition she does not

[ocean geyser]

However miniscule it may be

It’s still there

[silk atlas]

By what definition

[strange turtle]

Oxford

the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character.

[ocean geyser]

💀

[gray silo]

Rodney be like "HI HOW I CAN MURDER U HAPPY 2DAY?"

[silk atlas]

Wherre the hell does that say some random living thing that isn't some animal can't have a perosnality

Also, again, Sentients.

[gray silo]

Anyway, Rhino is always stealing lunches from the fridge and blaming it on Grendel

[strange turtle]

…I said person, not human

[gray silo]

Did rhino steal your lunch?!?

[silk atlas]

Why does that matter is what I'm saying?

[strange turtle]

Yes, actually, I’m quite upset with him

[ocean geyser]

Skill issue

[strange turtle]

Because Sentients are people too??

[gray silo]

Du you think there are Muppets in the warframe universe?

[strange turtle]

I never excluded them to begin with you just assumed I meant humans

[ocean geyser]

Warframes are like
Semi people
We still use their genders for a reason, don’t we?

This is a very unusual conversation

[sly ibex]

Just use Loki and pants him from invis. That'll learn 'im.

[ocean geyser]

I feel like a distinct lack of listening to other’s points was happening

[silk atlas]

What are we even considering a "person", firstly, and why can animals have a personality here without being a person but not Warframes from some reason

[ocean geyser]

A 3rd moderator has appeared………

[gray silo]

Pants Grendel or Rhino?

[silk atlas]

Why not both

[gray silo]

Coz Grendel's been taking the blame

Im gonna do a fice comic arc about how even though Gyre isn't a prime frame, she's awesome and becomes a respected leader wnd beloved warframe family member

[strange turtle]

I meant like

[gray silo]

And at the end of the fifth book, the operator gonna feed her to the helminth

[strange turtle]

People and animals have whole and intact minds

[gray silo]

Comic closes with all the other frames crying in horror