lore-discussion

[woven coyote]

Also tengus might have been behind the g3, cant remember

Now that i think of it tengus is to the grineer what alad is to the corpus

[strange plinth]

wiki says he is but no proper source

[upbeat wind]

Ok thanks for the infos like I said I maybe lost some important stuff so my theorie is unfortunatelly non-valid I wanted to tested out thanks for your time and knowladge

[woven coyote]

Now i kinda wanna see the next crisis in the system after wally and tau being a joint venture by tengus and aladv

[restive river]

Didnt tengus die?

[woven coyote]

I think he released the infested and ran

Then we hear the troops form his base dying

[strange plinth]

tengus being involved w/ ghouls, g3, and infestation yet not showing up in-game has to be the funniest part about him imo

[strange turtle]

It somehow reached the outer colonies at some point pre-OW and ravaged them, presumably due to less infrastructure, resources and importance

[strange plinth]

ah, thanks

[turbid vigil]

i just watched desieges video on ballas

[turbid vigil]

didn't aladv say tengus smiled like wally

[pale cedar]

Oh no

[turbid vigil]

some parts kinda make sense others are a stretch

[pale cedar]

He makes stretches for most things

He has called almost every character Wally at least once

[strange turtle]

It may be shocking

But I think Wally might be Wally

😨

[pale cedar]

I think you’re onto something with that one

[proper barn]

Not desiege

[turbid vigil]

i just need something to think about i am starving for more lore

[lean garden]

well no

alad most definitely did not say that

because alad has 0 content that involves wally

[turbid vigil]

he definitely did

[pale cedar]

Alad never met Wally in this game

Alad doesn’t even know we aren’t the Warframe

Alad has never made a deal with Wally either

[lean garden]

ah, and where did you get that idea from

[turbid vigil]

never said alad did, i said tengus did

[pale cedar]

Nothing suggests Tengus met Wally

[lean garden]

you did say alad say tengus smiled like wally, but like where

and critically if alad has no content with wally, how would he be comparing tengus to wally

[turbid vigil]

he didnt state it was like wally but that he smiled eerily

[lean garden]

so he didnt say tengus smiled like wally, just like a creep

but also like where are you sourcing this from

[pale cedar]

A person smiling in Warframe doesn’t mean they’re Wally or controlled by Wally automatically

[turbid vigil]

it does as its refferenced over and over

[lean garden]

^

[pale cedar]

Where?

[gleaming iron]

is there any volt lore

or is he just
there

[woven coyote]

Just there

[tall echo]

He regularly steals gauss' speedster role

[rose egret]

What are even wally feats

[pale cedar]

Possession
Killing children
Cutting himself and making murmur
Breaking Rell down till he got free

[violet storm]

Despotism

[ocean geyser]

Being weird

[ocean geyser]

You’ve been saying that but have been giving zero proof
Are you misremembering?

[hexed oxide]

From a lore pov, who's faster ? Gauss or amir

Amir seems to zap from place to place in the blink of an eye (look at the hex good ending quest scene), but he doesn't do a blast wave like gauss does in his prime trailer

[pale cedar]

Gauss because Amir is an unmodded Volt

[ashen pulsar]

Lorewise gauss is faster than volt right?

By a lot

He can outrun bullets

[normal mountain]

Lorewise, the only thing we have on how fast Volt is comes from Amir

And from that, I'd say Volt is faster in the way that matters
In that he can actually make turns at full speed

[silk atlas]

There's nothing that mentions which of the two is faster because then it just becomes a measuring contest for no reason.

[digital grail]

Gauss might be faster

Since speed is one of his main things

No actual proof of it tho

[pale cedar]

We can’t get a proper answer because Volt has like no lore

[silk atlas]

Even if he did have lore, either DE would also just make him faster than bullets or they'd not bother with stupid feat scaling at all.

[pale cedar]

Yeah, DE almost never powerscale frames with Chroma being the only frame with a powerful mention

[silk atlas]

And people use that and Atlas's Leverian like they're some kinda end-alls

[pale cedar]

Players always misinterpret Atlas lore

[strange turtle]

From the Awakening cinematic he does seem to be

Not to the degree shown in Gauss Prime Access but that’s a prime and he was doing it to his own bullet and wasn’t being shot at, so not the best comparison

That and the timescale and budget they’d be working with

[silk atlas]

They should just pull an Akira Toriyama with the "new" Dragon Team and be like "yeah they're all equal in strength" that'd be so funny

[pale cedar]

I think players should stop trying to power scale a thing that can’t be powerscaled

[normal mountain]

"But- but tier lists! They have to be made!"

[restive river]

Tier-lists can be opinionated, powerscaling has never been an exact science

[pale cedar]

Overframe actually has one of if not the worst tierlists out there

[normal mountain]

Powerscaling and tier lists are stupid all around
You cannot change mind on this

Hence, the overdramatic performance earlier

[silk atlas]

A lot of the times people just need to remember that stories are only made so far that you believe a world is out there. Even Tolkein made creatures that were just completely unexplained.

[raw stone]

To be fair we do have the opening cinematic.

Everyone, everyone. We need to compare the Opening Cinematic that DE made uh... whenever they updated the tutorial. And then Gauss Prime's trailer.

[normal mountain]

My take
Gauss has higher top speed, but his turning radius sucks

[pale cedar]

Isn’t awakening a little disingenuous considering a lot of stuff in trailers we can’t actually do

[raw stone]

Skill issue imo.

I'm legit saying the Tenno falls off. Nothing else. They just fall off okay?

[pale cedar]

No, it’s an outsourcing issue

[raw stone]

Outsourcing? We are technically the only tenno left.

[pale cedar]

No we aren’t

[raw stone]

:v if you take out the other players who else do we work with besides spectres that deal with warframes?

To me, the entire story kinda just frames us as a last ditch effort from Lotus.

[pale cedar]

I’m saying the trailer was made by someone that wasn’t DE and a bunch of stuff in the trailer doesn’t match up

[raw stone]

Well... aside from The Veil's conclusion with Palladino and Rell.

[pale cedar]

The story doesn’t revolve around the other Tenno but they still exist

[silk atlas]

Usual "chosen one" type beat, especially with Albrecht's notes talking about such

[pale cedar]

There’s multiple other Tenno mentioned in lore

And because we haven’t seen them mentioned as dead we can’t call them dead

Rell is the only one we saw actually dead

[raw stone]

And yet... we're dealing with the shit they leave behind... sometimes. Most times.

Well there was that Excal that got dissected. And then Valk.

[pale cedar]

You do realise Tenno is the child not the frame right?

When a frame dies the Tenno still lives this was made clear in TSD

[raw stone]

See my frame of reference is that if I see them in a capacity within here and now during the operator's timeline They're not schrodinger's frame.

Mhm mhm. I mean I guess we do freely change frames even pre-SD.

But also the moonquakes after SD...

[silk atlas]

There's also this part of Erra for some more concrete proof of "there's other Operators out there"

[pale cedar]

Yeah, because the Tenno was sleeping controlling the frame

[raw stone]

Do we know any other tenno freely moving after SD? Like ours or?

[pale cedar]

Yes, we aren’t the only Tenno that’s awake

[raw stone]

I mean ik all those tenno are still gonna deal with wally even if they aint awake... I'm thinking about so many leaflets rn.

Wait Nems, who'd I miss that was awake. Beaides Rell?

[silk atlas]

They're just random unnamed Operators you don't see much.

[pale cedar]

Vorunas Operator woke up and nothing mentions going back to sleep

[lost lion]

The way I see it, when you play Solo content/are the host, you are the Chosen Operator/Drifter, when you're playing with others, you're an allied Tenno but not the chosen one. Its an eternalism kinda thing essentially

[pale cedar]

That’s not Eternalism

[silk atlas]

It's not even Eternalism, it's basic multiplayer stuff of treating the other players as El Generico's. You don't play GTAOnline and treat everyone has having done the exact same stuff as you because you're the protag in your eyes and everyone else are just some other dudes.

[pale cedar]

Quinn mentions it as them not having what we have or something like that

There are multiple Tenno
Always only 1 Drifter

[lost lion]

Upon thinking a little harder I have decided to recind my previouss statement

[silk atlas]

Yeah 1999 is just the big fat "don't even bother trying to justify this in-lore" lol

[raw stone]

No probs no probs. I needed to reformat all this info. Just something I was curious for.

[pale cedar]

Most of 1999 is gameplay after the quest

But that’s the same for most updates

[turbid vigil]

luckily its from before the orokin era

[restive river]

Was Rell and the New War Zariman “flashback” not enough?

[restive river]

All player tenno?

[tall echo]

player tenno are a weird thing because the existence is canon but the actual number isn't

[restive river]

Duviri with its multiple Drifters too

[restive river]

Why is that specifically relevant?

1999 is lore relevant, the issue comes from multiple tenno in 1999
In lore we can presume it’s like the bounties and TA/ETA where Hex members assist us since there’s never any mention of any other tenno following and assisting us

Same with Whispers
Though Whispers had Gargoyle’s Cry which was specifically about setting up a network throughout the dojos so other Tenno are at least somewhat aware of what’s happening, just likely not going to 1999 in lore

[turbid vigil]

ooh i see

[restive river]

Tbh I could easily see other tenno in 1999 being explained as after Gargoyle’s Cry and the connection was established Loid opened up the method of time travel we use to those in the know

And since our method of time travel is exclusive to the tenno?
Yeah
But we don’t see any mention of other tenno in 1999 afaik, it’s Drifter’s story but in terms of gameplay its all of us that made it there

Its honestly a minor thing that’s not too important since gameplay > lore does occur plenty of times

DE does try to fit things when they can but it doesn’t always work
Like 1999 multiplayer or Duviri multiplayer

Duviri especially tbh

No Eternalism explanations here, just gameplay > lore cause sometimes that’s more important
Also like
Again nothing is ever really stated lol

[raw stone]

See, I wasn't here from the beginning beginning, so maybe some stuff got rephrased, retconned, idk. I was here when Warframe got its identity together, when it became nearly like how it is now. But to how Lotus' lines and the general theme up until Zariman, it sounded like I was a near-sole fighter.
Mother really saved her hardest fights for her silliest tenno (us (singular))

[restive river]

We def weren’t a solo fighter nor was that a retcon

There has always been multiple tenno before we even knew we were a kid in a pod

[silk atlas]

I say no solely because "oh he was cast out for being weird that doesn't say anything about the other not casted out Tenno."

[normal mountain]

Cephalon Melica has one of my favorite lines regarding the Zariman kids
"Where are all your classmates? You know… Terolee and Nimian and Rell and the one with the, um, 'unusually vibrant' hair?"

[silk atlas]

Completely glueless

[tall echo]

(which means the one student with brightly colored hair during the tnw zariman scenes was intentionally coded in)

[hexed oxide]

rewatching the zariman cutscenes to find that kid with the bright coloured hair that i never saw

good god the adult's snarling is creepy

[stiff beacon]

you wanna bet we're gonna run into the other 3 in future quest?

[mint laurel]

Did Captain Vor get his Janus Key on that Derrelict during Operation Ghoul?

nevermind, i'll ask in r/Warframelore cuz this a super specific question

[lean garden]

Vor has had his janus key since the start of the game

so he couldnt have gotten it during any of warframes Operations

[mint laurel]

Oh, ty. Let me copy-paste my question on the subreddit to clarify my idea

[lean garden]

inb4 someone tells you Vor got it from wally and cites 0 sources

[mint laurel]

Did Captain Vor get his Janus Key on that Derelict during Operation Ghoul?

I was reading Captain Vor's lore and it says that Little Duck destroys his Orokin Key during this event and then he get traped on a Derelict where he had to fight Corrupts and Infested, with his fate begin unknown. But we know he, somehow, survived thanks to his later apparition in The Awakening and Vor's Prize events.

Knowing his not favorable situation during the end of Operation Ghoul, is there a possibility that he found the Janus Key in that Derelict and survived due to his discovery and posterior used of the Janus Key to survive the horse of Infested and Corrupts?

There is

English is not my first language so i could misunderstand while i was reading

[normal mountain]

Considering most people's fashion, I'd be willing to put money that the 'one with the unusually vibrant hair' is the player character

[celest needle]

Alright I have just finished jade shadows and I am semi-lost? I get the general gist of it, Stalker had a wife and they both were turned into Warframes and that she is dying because she is made out of literal jade light, but that's the extent of what I get. Like, why was she made out of Jade Light, why were they turned into warframes, why is he still hunting us? Etc,

[strange turtle]

She’s not made out of jade light, she’s just the jade light warframe

She was dying because of the baby

[silk atlas]

She's dying because she has a baby in her (She was pregnant when she was turned into a frame)

[strange turtle]

If you go to Teshin’s Relay room there’s a feather thing you can interact with to learn a bit more

Like a diary entry kind of thing

[karmic mulch]

Is hollvania in earth

[strange turtle]

Yes

[karmic mulch]

Ohh

[strange turtle]

Warframe’s Earth is like an AU kind of thing

[silk atlas]

AU as in there's an alternate history going on in WF's Earth, more specifically, not that we're going into an alt universe in 1999.

[strange turtle]

So all the old countries have different names, there’s different religions, some tech is more advanced etc

[celest needle]

aight

[stiff beacon]

and some animals went down a different evolutionary path

example: letties rats

[dusk heath]

Question: because of the eternalism we know that everytime we have to pick an option between 2, 2 realities get created for each option, and this is why we have the Drifter. However, did the man in the wall propose the pact to EVERY TENNO, or was our Tenno the "chosen one". If everyone had the choice, and everyone has their drifter, does that mean everyone had their our own Conceptual Embodimet of something? Of would have been duviri for everyone?

[strange plinth]

the deal was only ever offered to one tenno
our deal affected the rest of the kids on the zariman

[dusk heath]

So we are a sort of "chosen one" I always assumed the man in the wall offered the pact to everyone

[strange plinth]

also
drifter accepted the deal as well, it was just a separate interpretation of the wording of the deal
operator's deal included them in the deal
drifter's excluded them, saving all of the kids of the zariman but the drifter
"I can save them, all of them."

[dusk heath]

Oooh, so it's like the mom and father dilemma? You save yourself or the others. So the "others" saved is the part where drifter didn't get saved?

Damn my interpretation was always accepting and not accepting. Instead it was save yourself or save the others?

[strange plinth]

its different interpretations of the same phrase
save all of [the children of the zariman] in operator's case, or save all of [the other children] in drifter's
ofc, the terms weren't clear to anyone but wally. all he said was "all of them"

[dusk heath]

Well, he said "but you have to watch it". Sounds like I can save all of them, while not saving you(?). And so the part of "or I can save just you" is implicit?

[strange plinth]

full line is "Time's up, kiddo. I can save them, all of them. But you have to want it... let's say we shake on it."
there's no "or just you," its "all of them" or nothing

[lean garden]

the critical bit is this:

[lean garden]

29. You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you?

A. CORRUPT FILE DETECTED

B. I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you. (correct)

[strange plinth]

ah i did forget about that
-# the knowledge was there but not the source

[dusk heath]

Where does this text come from?

[lean garden]

gotta hunt down the tablets in duviri

https://www.orokinarchives.com/zariman-tablets
OR you could just see them all collated here

[dusk heath]

So does this mean we are indeed supposed not to know what was the "other option", the one who saved the operator?

[lean garden]

eh?

thats like, the complete opposite from the desired conclusion

the deal only had two outcomes, the operator who was saved and the drifter who wasnt, thats it

[dusk heath]

I mean, the tablet saying "CORRUPTED FILE". Doesn't that look like there was something else in he deal, that we are not aware of

[strange plinth]

the corruption happens more n more throughout the tablets
its more an indication of wally's tampering than anything else

[lean garden]

28. Did you forget, kiddo?

A. You owe me. (correct)

B. ERROR – RESPONSE NOT FOUND
for excemple

[dusk heath]

Idk it looks weird to me that the deal didn't have a 2nd option. The whole "Paradox" was based on what we learned at the start of the flashback, when during the Eternalism Class, we have the Paradox of saving your mother o your father, and you would have 2 realities in which they both survived and they both died, the both option co-exists in the Eternalism.

Doesn't this mean that, if we have operator and drifter, The operator shaked the hand for a different outcome, something that would have included saving just himself

[lean garden]

well thats because eternalism isnt about having two choices, eternalism is about a choice, having multiple outcomes

[proper barn]

Okay. So incorrect slightly. So the operator/drifter are the same person until that moment and then when the deal is made cuz it's such a radical change from the normal outcome the Drifter is made.

[dusk heath]

So in this case you would say that the multiple outcomes is just about the man in the wall including him or not in the saving?

[lean garden]

bingo

[dusk heath]

Tho, isn't this still open to interpratations? Like, if DE tomorrow shows us "there was another part of the deal, that didn't get showed", would you consider that a retcon?

[proper barn]

I mean I don't think that's what retcon means.

Also we know what the deal was. It was he would save them if we give him "our light" @dusk heath

We somehow broke that dealm

[lean garden]

I wouldnt say this bit is open to interpretation, since like, the whole deal situation with drifter and operator is expounded in the kim, where its definitively stated that the deal resulted in two options, not that the deal had two choices

[restive river]

Didn’t we also like
See the deal???

And we know what happened on Drifter’s end

Wally either saved them all including us or saved them all excluding us since he never specified us

He wanted our “light” and we needed to “want it”

[gritty bane]

I mean we also saw the void war but then they are changing that by adding details from the Old Peace

[restive river]

We haven’t seen the void war? That arc is still happening

Old Peace is the Operator’s side of the story while Drifter was in 1999 post Lotus Eaters

[strange plinth]

assuming you meant the old war, we've seen very little of it
there's more than enough space for the old peace to occur, there's not space for another section of dealmaking

[restive river]

For whatever reason Tau is next then likely the continuation of the void war
We still don’t know how the Old Peace or Tau fit into this, but they do.

[gritty bane]

We saw some of the old war, sorry not the void war.

[restive river]

I mean if nothing else Old Peace gives us the chance to relearn incredibly powerful skills

[restive river]

Ooh
Yeah
Problem with the old war is that it was so massive and vague that the old peace doesn’t break anything

[gritty bane]

operator ults look cool but I hope they're not all just big damage buttons

[restive river]

It just gives us a clearer image

[restive river]

Same, I’m curious if they’ll be in the theme of the focus school itself and not just a weapon designed after the respective symbols

[gritty bane]

hope zenurik's gives more ability strength to fuel my addiction

[restive river]

That’d be cool

I can see them being both big thing + a big buff

Gives more reason to use them that way, other than a free room nuke

[gritty bane]

yeah cuz then it's just competing with our loadouts

why would I spend 10 seconds in an animation when I can just hold left click or press 2 buttons on nuke nezha or sevagoth

[restive river]

if there's any buff zenurik should give it should be infinite energy or something

[gritty bane]

maybe casting speed? felt weird that the ability spam tree didn't have that but Madurai did

[restive river]

I'm hopeful for what DE is cooking up, just hope they'll be a mix of fun to use and utility

[restive river]

maybe, tbh it could be multiple buffs too

we don't really know beyond Naramon being big sword
and if it applies buffs, probably melee buffs or combo counter or something along those lines

[gritty bane]

could be some funny stuff like Vazarin giving you a health buff that stacks the more you cast it

endless mission scaling is always appreciated

[restive river]

I'm still curious how we'll cast these

[gritty bane]

finally, a use for the old void blast keybind

[restive river]

the demo was. well a demo but maybe it'll be akin to incarnons but for our tenno

[restive river]

that's already being used for melee swap in

[gritty bane]

ah shit u right

[restive river]

and every ability associated it with it was moved to the 1 or 2

I can see it relating to focus gain, a certain amount of kills in general, or just having it unlocked and its on a cooldown

[gritty bane]

wonder if we gotta unlock the ults with focus or if it'll be a separate thing yeah

[restive river]

they said something about us not having to worry about farming for stuff

but that's likely cause the tauron expansions will use a different resource

[gritty bane]

huh, maybe it's unlocked at base? I thought they'd use focus cuz they made it so much easier to farm

[restive river]

still uh
not sure how we will be pulling resources from a literal memory bath dream though

1999 worked cause the infested and time but this?
it's not actually happening, it ALREADY happened!

Old Peace aint time travel so I am very curious how it will be done

[gritty bane]

as far as I understand, the quest is gonna be bath memory but when we go to tau it's gonna be modern day

[restive river]

like Uriel will def be in the Devil's Triad for instance

[restive river]

yes but we arent going to Tau til next year

I'm more concerned with Old Peace, which is this year

same place
different points in time

[gritty bane]

the way I see it it's gonna be like the 1999 bit in whispers in the wall

no loot, just story

[restive river]

maybe

but

idk I kinda doubt that it will just be story
whispers still brought content for after

[gritty bane]

yeah I imagine most of the gameplay stuff is gonna be a part of the devils triad and not old peace

[restive river]

maybe

[gritty bane]

I expect the demo they showed to be 70-80% of the quest

[restive river]

It depends
Devil's Triad sounded mostly seperate so I dont know what they'd have to do with the Tauron expansions, especially when they've kinda already established an associated character with that?

They might just treat Old Peace as a teaser for Tau but there has to be more content than just the quest and the DT side story

[gritty bane]

maybe maybe

[restive river]

like Whispers and 1999 for instance, they were more than JUST the quest

they brought bounties, a new hub, nerw mechanics

[gritty bane]

yeah there were the tilesets for the entrati lab and stuff

I expect it to be a kinda techrot encore for deimos

[restive river]

these updates are more than just the quest

so either OP will have more to it after (which I think is the most likely) or DT will just expand on. wherever they are

since we don't even know if they're in the labs or 1999

[restive river]

Deimos already had that
And OP is Operator's 1999

[gritty bane]

in the reveal they're clearly in the labs tho, right?

[gritty bane]

you mean dante's update right

[restive river]

They are, BUT they're part of the romance system so they have to be reset somehow, also we have no idea if the Wisp and Harrow protos are from 1999 or not, their religion is dualism so they're likely from 1999 and following the orders of Albrecht
So either they were transported to modern day and probably put into cryosleep or Roathe was somehow transported to 1999

[restive river]

Yeah, they've done echoes updates for their major updates since either the Zariman or Veilbreaker, don't recall which

[gritty bane]

We'll see in december I suppose

[restive river]

and again Old Peace seems to be more so Drifter's 1999, even with the side story I am presently doubting it's just the quest

I mean revisiting our past memories on a loop so we can get better in a variety of ways makes sense for the current arc

We'll need everything we can throw at Wally to fight him

[gritty bane]

operator is already a pretty experienced soldier tho

[strange plinth]

relearning some old tricks won't hurt, though

[restive river]

So is Drifter?

we're still learning new things

[gritty bane]

since they got their old war memories back (mostly) and have been genociding the star chart for years(?)

[restive river]

we don't have our memories back though, not enough clearly

[gritty bane]

drifter's use of warframes is definitely not fully in tho, he's a menace by himself to be sure

[restive river]

the tenno are skilled fighters, doesn't mean we can't prepare for fighting Wally

[gritty bane]

drifters training for that by getting jiggy with the protoframes

[restive river]

Drifter's as capable as the Operator, they've both had their fair share of fights

[gritty bane]

gotta fight indifference with schmexy times

[restive river]

by learning how to LOVE which we know is a poison for Wally

love being more than romantic love fyi :p

[gritty bane]

wally has trauma from walking into their parents doing the dirty it would seem

[restive river]

the story with the protos is that they become a sort of family for Drifter, someone that can relate to their experinces, they can talk to them and they can talk with the protos

[gritty bane]

yeah I know I'm just being a gooner for the bit

[restive river]

:p

[gritty bane]

:p

[restive river]

anyway we have two of us it makes sense we're doing what we can from different angles

Drifter with the right hook of love
Operator with a giant void manifestation of their focus

and both with a big Warframe

[gritty bane]

Hildryn/Grendel main characters confirmed

[restive river]

I was talking about the Vessels lol

[gritty bane]

oh lmao

[proper barn]

Drifter has been fighting In duviri for years.

Thousands if not more years

[gritty bane]

Doesn't he only get access to warframes after the quest tho? and he leaves duviri soon after

[proper barn]

But like don't you realize that is like combat training?

[gritty bane]

we see him stumble when he transfers into your warframe during the new war too

[gritty bane]

well yeah but Idk what piloting a warframe is like

is it just like moving your own body? or do you gotta basically direct the warframe like using a controller? is it like persuading the warframe to do what you want?

[dusk heath]

Where is the term "our light" mentioned?

[proper barn]

In the new war.

"Can I get a light buddy?" And you have the globe light

[strange plinth]

Operator: "Hey, lose your light? Here, you can take mine."
Wally: "Thanks, kiddo. I think I will."

[restive river]

^

was just about to grab that lol

still dont know what our "light" is

only other time we have been referred to as having a light is with the holdfasts, specifically Quinn and he seems to more so be refering to our piece of Wally as they are "feeding" off us rather than Wally's finger

[strange plinth]

wonder if that's to do with our piece of wally being given rather than stolen
or if its some other difference

[restive river]

wdym? them feeding off of it from us?

Wally seems to still have control through his fingers, and his pieces in general

he speaks through them, can move them, speaks to us through, the angels are likely his doing (Teshin alluding to them having a master iirc)

I dont think it being stolen really matters beyond how angry he is that someone has a piece of him

[proper barn]

Our piece of wally?

[restive river]

thats how we have our powers?

The Indifference: "These gifts you have: a piece of me. Given freely."

[proper barn]

Ah

[restive river]

The Indifference: "But those before you were butchers. Flayed flesh… for stolen stars."

[proper barn]

You're right

[restive river]

he's chill with us having a piece of him
not so much Albrecht and the Orokin for using his power without his permission

[strange plinth]

was thinking of how the holdfasts would be continuing to "use" the stolen piece vs using the power that was given to us

[restive river]

most based thing Wally has ever done is understandably be mad at the Orokin lol

[restive river]

I mean the way I see it is since our piece is somehow. within us that we can focus it, use it however we please
The fingers are just bare pieces of Wally, forcefully being used
Both are still connected to him, both are still used by him

I don't think the finger being stolen has anything to do with the angels, beyond that being how the finger got there and it likely being more reasons Wally's lashing out

making an army of the dead for the eventual war

I do hope we get more confirmation that he's somehow in control of them beyond being what makes them
also beyond Teshin saying they have a master when we've never really seen them organized iirc?

[strange plinth]

yeah i can see that as well

[restive river]

Wally's fingers are being used without his permission but it does not seem to be in the same way we use it

[strange plinth]

what'd the void angels even do during gargoyle's cry? i'd imagine that would be the most focused they've been

[restive river]

I'm actually not sure if its ever stated?
same for EDA

they kinda just
show up
likely cause 1. the lab is half in the void and 2. Wally is very likely their master

mostly cause
His finger is responsible and it's not like there's another candidate

unless for some reason our dear old og dad is the king of the angels or something :p

even more of a crack theory
Vor

[strange plinth]

vor's going to show up in the void war and get cut in half for the millionth time

[restive river]

plot twist
he doesnt die and his bottom half is replaced with half of a void angel

Vor, KING OF THE VOID ANGELS, FOLLOWER OF THE WALL OF BONE

[strange plinth]

being outside of the zariman is still a little more direction than we see otherwise, but not by much

[restive river]

yeah, they kinda just went from one half in the void area to another lmao

which
only connection is Wally!

I just really like the idea of Wally being the one who controls the angels and he will use them against us during the Void War

like c'mmon imagine he catches us off guard with our original parents

[zenith gate]

Sounds like a very Wally thing to do

[restive river]

Give me more reasons to not forgive him
like playing on our trauma, more

especially with our parents, us and parental figures is a very traumatic topic

we've had 3.5 moms

[strange plinth]

that would be interesting, though i'm not sure how they'd depict that well.
maybe just their voices? iirc the operator's father has a line or two. don't remember about their mother

[restive river]

yeah that'd be good

we do technically see them in the family photo

but just voice lines without showing too much is prob good

[strange plinth]

i'm. struggling to figure out who the .5 is

[restive river]

I just want more trauma and angst this arc since it relates so heavily to like
the tenno and the thing that made our life a living hell

[zenith gate]

Wally the type of evil otherworldly entity to try and get us to end our parents a second time

[restive river]

og mom
margulis
lotus
mother (deimos)

[strange plinth]

ah

[restive river]

we dooo get to choose how they died!

[strange plinth]

ooh
making us kill them again in the same way could be an interesting way to play that
you remember it. now relive it.

[restive river]

I'd say mother is the .5 but margulis could be too

[zenith gate]

Someone post the "It's even funnier the second time!" thing

[strange plinth]

someone edit wally onto it

[mystic lynx]

why does Ordis complain when you remove helminth cyst?

[tall echo]

Because you're letting the infested chair impale your neck

[ocean geyser]

He just gets worried easily i think

Btw the Protoframes know a about Umbra, right? Or at least one of them does?

[tall echo]

At most eleanor might due to looking in our mind once

[ocean geyser]

Makes sense

[tall echo]

I'd also wonder if someone lost their mind if they're voluntarily having their neck stabbed with an arm-sized fungus spike ngl

[ocean geyser]

Lmfao fair enough

[tall echo]

And if they survive it I'd probably be in a different country within seconds

[strange turtle]

There’s also that memory/experience sharing thing they’ve got going on

[strange turtle]

I feel like that’s the kind of thing they might try and avoid tbh, since it relies on connecting the KIM booleans to outside content

[strange plinth]

there's also a choice about it in war within iirc
but yea the KIM choice would be the expected one n that could cause issues

[humble sierra]

Depends on when they killed the parents, though, right? Maybe they did it after the deal, so Operator could've done it differently to Drifter

Wait no because Drifter was left completely alone after the deal so they'd have to have killed their parents beforehand

Nevermind

[heady quest]

Wait we killed our parents?

[pale cedar]

Yes

We killed multiple parents

Rell killed his mother

[round remnant]

Do we have proof?

[pale cedar]

Yes, Rell Webcomic

[round remnant]

Interesting 🤔 very interesting

[pale cedar]

https://www.warframe.com/media/comics/rell

[round remnant]

Fascinating

[woven coyote]

That is also one of the main points about the zariman event

Parents go feral, kids get power, kids kill parents

[pale cedar]

What else would we have used the Void power for in the moment lol

[silk atlas]

kids kill kids, clearly

[hexed oxide]

why kid kill kid if kid not crazy ?

[silk atlas]

Safety was off

[hexed oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/hypixel-forums-gif-23300389

[tall echo]

"kids are cruel, jack"

[strange turtle]

It was done after the deal, yeah

[pearl lantern]

I might be just a bit confused/i forgor, but what are the giants in the entrati deimos lab tilesets

[lean garden]

the vessels

[pearl lantern]

for what? i just remember we moved them a bit in the quest

[pale cedar]

We did transference on them, yes

[tall echo]

they're linked to the hex which is how we time travel

[pearl lantern]

how are they linked to the hex?

[tall echo]

they're made with some of the hex's dna

[pearl lantern]

oooo

thanks man

[strange turtle]

There’s an entry in Albrecht’s notes that talks about them

He basically got inspired by the cell samples he took from the Hex, and after getting inspired by Loid used them as a base along with Grey Strain, the form of technocyte on Deimos that makes all the Infested big, to make giant warframes for The Chosen Operator to fight back against Wally with

And then we ended up using them for the exact opposite, naturally

A giant to battle giants, merging the humanity of the man Arthur, the anatomical perfection of Ballas' warframes, and the titanic potency of the Gray Strain. My saviours.

[pearl lantern]

o thats cool

[north jolt]

Basically XL warframes

[proper barn]

We don't know that.

[proper barn]

Oh I'm owned.

[strange turtle]

There’s also this one which states it more explicitly, since I realised that one doesn’t necessarily go against the idea that there were non-Void power murders

[restive river]

Wally made the parents insane
Then the deal happened

[stiff beacon]

then wally grofitted

[oblique siren]

I'm still -squints- about how Wally seemed to pick up our Father's mannerism of calling us Kiddo.

[woven coyote]

It's not just us

[oblique siren]

Who else?

[woven coyote]

Albrecht

On the very first incident

Wally refferred to albrecht by his childhood name of "little bengel"

[oblique siren]

Aaah interesting! Thank you c:

[cosmic badge]

So wally just calls people by their childhood callsigns then?

[normal mountain]

Seems so

[tall echo]

It's called a nickname

But yes

[eternal sand]

Do we really need to protect the ostrons? We need to keep the unum out of the grineers reach for sure, that's a source of temple Kuva. But we could have such a better foothold if we just... Killed the funny looking locals and made a big tenno base there. We would still definitely be in the right tho because we're the "good guys"

[proper barn]

The Unum is cared for by the Ostrons.

Also you would kill where she gets her eyes and ears. Like the Quills wouldn't exist without the ostrons. Also it was always a tenno base. @eternal sand

[strange plinth]

i'm struggling to see how killing the locals and putting a bunch of tenno there would be better? its not like we aren't welcome

[lean garden]

yea nah you cant really just make a "lets just kill the non-combatant locals" argument and think anyone with a functioning brain between their ears is going to agree with you

good attempt at ragebait tho, I would rate it 7/10

[digital grail]

Thats a horrible idea thats just killing people for no actual reason

[strange turtle]

It’s also just, not necessary.

Like any outpost we would want to make could just be built there, since it’s not like we fight in a way where converting the whole area into a military base would actually do much

[heady quest]

bro i am pretty sure if we just killed all the ostron... the unum wouldn't be happy about that...

my guess she just blasts our brains with horrifying screams until we all die of brain aneurysms

[proper barn]

I still think she needs the Ostrons and the Quills.

Also if we didn't have the Quills we wouldn't have been able to get into cetis in the new war.

Or have little duck help us.

[hidden dirge]

Does anyone know what the “lore accurate” enemy level would be?

[tall echo]

No

[strange plinth]

i'd say the levels are far more gameplay > lore
quests are usually around 20-40 iirc
steel path enemies are 100 levels higher because teshin lets them know you're coming
not sure if there's anything else in regards to that

[hidden dirge]

Right thanks

[heady quest]

my guess is that kuva grineer are higher level anyways too?

and sentients are stronger

[onyx dew]

Does anyone know why the greneer you play in the second war(sorry, forgot his name) is stronger than normal greneer

[hexed oxide]

kahl ? he isn't. he's just an average foot soldier

[onyx dew]

Oh, I thought, he is stronger

thank you

Sorry, not the second war, the new war

[tall echo]

Because game

[digital grail]

Nah hes just goated

[tall echo]

My favorite joke explanation is that kahl ate the entire supply of regular anti-sentient mods

[eternal sand]

You caught me

[eternal sand]

Physically he's the same as most grineer lancers so he's not even strong by grineer standards (like napalms and bombards who carry heavy weapons) he only survived the initial crash because he was inside the landing craft, so that was just luck on his part. And he wouldn't have made it to the condrix at the end of the quest if he didn't find a tenno shotgun.

What is different from him about most grineer is that he's incredibly determined. His ability to eventually unveil himself is a testament to his mental strength, not physical

[digital grail]

Kahl is full of Determination

[normal mountain]

I don't think that's determination
Sounds more like Determination to me
Dude even has the ability to Reset

[hexed oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/undertale-heartbreak-game-over-broke-my-heart-heart-gif-23210364

[eternal sand]

The Kahl camp made me wonder.
Can love bloom between a corpus and a grineer

[hexed oxide]

probably. and unrelated, but i don't think there are female corpus units other than the ones at the index, are there ?

[eternal sand]

Sisters of parvos

[hexed oxide]

just those ?

[woven coyote]

Combas scrambus and those variants can be female

[eternal sand]

Which is really messed up because how can the grineer, a matriarchy that believes in female supremacy have more equal representation than the corpus who has an entire female harem cult for its founder. I'm sure loads of male corpus would love to be in parvos' circle

[silk atlas]

Is it really a matriarchy? There's just the two queens and most other important officers are male.

[hexed oxide]

other than the queens (now only one of them) there is no important female grineer characters

not even a generic boss like the sergeant

[pale cedar]

The reason I see most believing that is because Stallord said it was

[silk atlas]

eugh

A whole three important women is a matriarchy, folks.

[woven coyote]

Only kela and her gas

[pale cedar]

The only evidence shown to argue it is the female units being taller than the male

[eternal sand]

Females in the grineer army get special attention. They are all conscripted into the military unlike males, the dumbest get better gear and augments then males of the same standing (scorpions getting a machete and grappling hook where butchers get a knife) and they are put in less dangerous and more prominent roles, not canon fodder.

I think the reason we don't see bosses outside kela de thaym is because these bonuses don't give them incentive to improve. If you have what you perceive is everything you can have, why try to make yourself better?

[pale cedar]

You don’t see a single female member of the Grineer council

[eternal sand]

Grineer council? You mean Vay Hek and...
Vay Hek

After he killed the council for absolute power, something he did with... We can assume the queens permission because they turned him into the raving lunatic and it was probably really funny

[silk atlas]

To counter, there's the Flameblade and pretty much many of the other specialty units being male like Bombard, Nox and (?) Hyekka Master. Just happens a lot of males are also cannon fodder too. You've got the Scorpion, Ballista and Heavy Gunner for the basic units, with the Kuva Guardians being the most prominent female position outside of Kela, and that's most of it.

[hexed oxide]

kuva guardians are female ?

[pale cedar]

There’s more male Grineer in positions of high rank than female Grineer in positions of high rank

[silk atlas]

Yeah, shrimply.

And it's not like they're for some reason holding back the females for non-combat stuff. It's the Grineer; You WILL fight.

[eternal sand]

You mean to say the massive, fat onion soldiers with female voices and boobs bigger than their heads are female!?

[pale cedar]

Hard coded them to fight

Why can’t Autocorrect just not autocorrect

[eternal sand]

Unless you're a man with severe birth defects like muscle atrophy. Then you're amputated, given crap prosthetics and turned into a drudge

[silk atlas]

Flash back to Dark Souls's Catarina armor set
The female voice part though yeah.

[normal mountain]

Let's be fair here
They don't sound female to everyone
And being that fat will get you balloons of roughly that size even if you're male

[pale cedar]

This is not a male only thing

[hexed oxide]

look, their voice is way lower than the shots and screams of others' deaths. they could also just have been morbidly obese or like that dark souls fat guy

https://tenor.com/view/dark-souls-smaugh-jjaacckk-waheeb-gif-26472571

[normal mountain]

Thank you for making my case for me

[hexed oxide]

though iirc smough is not actually that obese, that's just what his armor is like (his eyes are actually below the armor's head, on those eye looking things above the chest)

[eternal sand]

That's not a drudge. Drudges are the guys on the shipyard tile set who have everything amputated, even their wastes, and build the grineers machinery

[pale cedar]

All Grineer eventually have to amputate if they aren’t killed

They don’t live long

[eternal sand]

There's differences between amputation and turning into a drudge. Many grineer are augmented with prosthetics to improve their performance. Drudges are non combatants who only have their upper torso and head left who don't even have guns and are seen by the game as non combatants with their deaths not counting as actual kills in extermination game modes

These two people are not the same @pale cedar

[woven coyote]

Think you are applying too much headcannon to this

[eternal sand]

Are you arguing that these two people are the same?

[north jolt]

I've mentioned this before but I always wonder what the true physical strength of the Grineer is, or at least what it was at their peak (before the clone rot). As I understand it even with their degradation and frequent need for prosthetics they're still basically considered "super soldier" levels of strong, so WTF were they capable of before the clone rot became a major problem?

[woven coyote]

I mean this is a lot of headcannon you are pilling up on the drudges

[eternal sand]

Probably like... A gorilla.

[north jolt]

I think they're already basically gorilla levels strong

[pale cedar]

One managed to defeat a Sentient with a shovel

[north jolt]

Like being able to wield archguns, use HEAVY machinery

[eternal sand]

It's not a headcanon to observe that they are non combatants. Go to an extermination mission. Find a lone drudge. Look at your counter, kill it, then look at your counter again. It won't have counted. I tested it

[north jolt]

This is the real lore question DE needs to answer: how much could THIS guy bench?

[woven coyote]

It is headcannon to assume it is because they are men or because of birth defects
Is what i am saying

[eternal sand]

Looks like the damn Chad meme

[north jolt]

Thats what the average grineer grunt looked like (more or less) prior to the total collapse of the Orokin empire

[eternal sand]

There are 3 drudge classes. All are men. To assume there are women drudges is a headcanon because we don't see them and it's not stated

[north jolt]

Like what I find impressive is what they are still capable of AFTER technically getting "nerfed" with genetic degradation

We need bench lifting stats from DE pronto

[eternal sand]

While they were incredibly strong, it still took an army of them to lift your mom

[north jolt]

I mean yeah, they aren't Atlas

[eternal sand]

It would be really funny tho if there were stories like "in cases where ships wouldn't be able to take off on their own, the orokin employed the grineer to jumpstart the take off by throwing the ship"

[pale cedar]

They still aren’t as strong as a Warframe unless they take Kuva

[digital grail]

So grineer have to take performance enhancing drugs

[pale cedar]

Yeah

Otherwise they’ll die from rot

[eternal sand]

Well... They don't need to take it. Less than 0.001 take it.
The rest only live for around 30-40 years

Keep in mind, in warframe, darvo is over 100 and considered young so the grineer only living for a few decades is likely similar to us meeting a person with a hamsters life span

[tall echo]

https://tenor.com/view/lorax-thats-a-woman-gif-7783533

[pale cedar]

Darvo also doesn’t have to deal with the issue of being a clone

[eternal sand]

I'm using him as an example of normal life expectancy for people in the origin system so we can get a sense of scale.

30-40 doesn't sound horrendous in our time. But in the future...

[tall echo]

there's also the fact that the grineer come out the toob as adults

they're toobmen not toobboys

[hexed oxide]

why don't the grineer make bootleg cephalons and/or fully artificial bodies instead of cloning ?

it seems a fairly simple solution

[tall echo]

it's not as easy as cloning

[eternal sand]

We don't know how to make cephalons, it's not exactly stated how that works.
And they do have robotic units. Rollers. That's the pinnacle of grineer tech right there

[tall echo]

and who would do it, the grineer are idiots, we killed the one smart one

[tall echo]

well it works through glassing and then something else extra

[eternal sand]

There's a lot of debate on if Tyl is dead in lore

[tall echo]

first time I hear about that

it's pretty clear that tyl is dead after the natah quest

[hexed oxide]

with his death being a requirement for a junction, i doubt he's still alive by now, specially if he isn't mentioned ever again

[eternal sand]

We don't even know what "glassing" is. In our terminology glassing can be either nuking someone or smashing them in the face with a drinking glass

[tall echo]

are you being intentionally dense

[hexed oxide]

we do know what glassing is, we have a sword and a machine at the zariman to do that, just can't replicate the tech

[eternal sand]

https://tenor.com/view/house-md-house-huh-text-hugh-laurie-gif-10690264267560712781

[hexed oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/house-md-huh-meme-funny-what-gif-13757300940814596109

[tall echo]

there's a reason nihil is called the glassmaker

[hexed oxide]

damn

[eternal sand]

I love you

[hexed oxide]

give me back the brain cell, my turn

[eternal sand]

https://tenor.com/view/plancton-gif-4547304069248189847

[tall echo]

that was impressive timing

but yeah glassing means literally turning someone into glass

[eternal sand]

Also, Tyl isn't the only smart grineer. There's a lot, we just don't put a lot of focus on them because the grineer like explosions more than math. Like doctor tangus (I think that's his name) who made the science behind the ghouls, rebuilt Vay Hek and rediscovered the infested... And unleashed it... THANKS TANGUS

[tall echo]

tengus barely did anything smart

he made quick-gro grineer and made hek even uglier than before after throwing him into the quick-gro grineer

fairly primitive cybernetics is the most advanced thing the grineer have

[eternal sand]

I doubt Hek being uglier is really Tengus' fault. All that was left of Hek was a brain with a bite mark and half a face. The fact he turned that into a flying lunatic with his own mech is impressive

[tall echo]

they seem to lack the facilities to mass produce war machines

[tall echo]

well he did literally throw hek into the ghouls so it is mostly his fault

[eternal sand]

Ceres is a moon that is one massive facility to produce star ships. Aka massive war machines

[eternal sand]

In his defense, and the queens will back me up on this: that was funny

[tall echo]

massive doesn't mean mass produced

usually the opposite

[tall echo]

ye

the most regularly used ground war machine being extremely simple rollers shows that the grineer don't put much into that area

the second most common are gigantic what looks like mining machines which just happen to be armed

grineer are orkz

[eternal sand]

That's not really a fair statement. We don't fight on the front lines, tenno by nature are backline combatants and we don't fight anywhere that can facilitate massive weaponry. Don't forget, the plains of eidelon are walled off, they can't simply roll in a million tanks, all Thumpers are constructed on the plains, we can see a few scattered, still being built

[tall echo]

we. don't fight on the front lines? then who does?

[digital grail]

What were we doing during new war and the old one then

[tall echo]

there's a lot of frontlining going on, it just so happens that the grineer don't really have space for their usual war machines

unlike the corpus the grineer don't need to rely on machines to fill out their numbers, because the cloning does enough

[eternal sand]

All we saw of the new war was a space battle where grineer galleons came in full force. Then our tenno died(?) and we skipped years into the future. The tenno probably went into hiding once the lotus disappeared.

[digital grail]

Our tenno didn't die just banished

[eternal sand]

It's up in the air what happened. I know we got a sword run through us tho

[pale cedar]

There’s a smart Grineer?

[stiff beacon]

yes tyl regor

dr tengus

[eternal sand]

Clem

[tall echo]

there was one

now he's tyl rigor

[stiff beacon]

no

[tall echo]

yes

[stiff beacon]

theres 2 tyl regor and dr tengus

[tall echo]

regor is dead

[pale cedar]

Isn’t Dr Tengus the idiot who released the Infestation

[tall echo]

yes

[stiff beacon]

hes also behind vay hek's ghouls

[tall echo]

tengus can call himself smart when he invents something that doesn't backfire in some way

the ghouls need to be deployed on-site because they're hard to control and short-lived

[eternal sand]

Also, by re-releasing the infested, Tengus technically has the highest kill count out of any grineer. By grineer terms this makes him incredibly smart and attractive

[pale cedar]

He created a cure which backfired for him instantly

[tall echo]

what

[pale cedar]

He solved the rot

[tall echo]

that's regor

[pale cedar]

Then we ended his career

[normal mountain]

That was Regor

[tall echo]

we stole the solution from regor's notably regor-less lab

[pale cedar]

Have we ever seen Tengus in game

[normal mountain]

Who will be forever known as Tyl Rigor

[eternal sand]

Nemesis being the most racist tenno here unable to tell the difference between regor and tengus

[tall echo]

that was one of my worse puns please no

[normal mountain]

It is
Glorious

[pale cedar]

Just scrap it like your name says

[eternal sand]

Speaking of Regor, were his tube men really the pinnacle of grineer? Bombards? Physically I can see it... But Bombard Maniacs? Sure they can teleport but they also have psychosis

[pale cedar]

Probably were for a time till they made the red Grineer troops that you face in the Baro node then the Queen made Liches

[eternal sand]

I wish there were more dynamic liches. Instead of it being a larvling have it be an eximus so that can determine the element and each time you mercy one it has a chance to be chosen as a lich. And instead of only having one lich at a time run around the system... Lock the lich to the planet they spawned at and let the player have a lich per planet

[strange plinth]

no lmao
ghouls, infestation, and g3 yet no in-game appearance

[eternal sand]

Bros on a grineer space yacht drinking martinis as his brothers die in war

[pale cedar]

That’s it I’m gonna go search the entire Origin System till I find him

[digital grail]

Is he in a comic or anything?

[eternal sand]

Yes he's in the vay Hek origin comic

[digital grail]

Ah

Makes sense

[eternal sand]

Pre Mutilated Vay Hek (left) and Tengus (right)

[digital grail]

Damn he looks like his name

[eternal sand]

Also here's Vay Hek with an English wig.

[pale cedar]

Both look like they deserve to be shot in the face

[tall echo]

with a stug

repeatedly

[eternal sand]

The Stug doesn't shoot poison or acid, it's actually grineer clone juice. Yes this implies what you think I implied

[tranquil mica]

I am lazy for 3 things : scan fragments Orbis, glyphs Hex, Cavia, Vor and corpses of Velimir/Minerva to insular duviri..

Missing again eximus scans and corpus units..

But I reach 12650h of game played to my profile IG.

[tall echo]

source?

[eternal sand]

https://tenor.com/view/armstrong-made-it-up-gif-25653819

[tranquil mica]

Why do i think cuve matrix to liquid deaths for feed living

[tall echo]

what

[brazen seal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/727260749571031070.webp?size=48&animated=true

[tranquil mica]

Too young for know the scene

[woven coyote]

Uhhhh whatever translator you used for this did not work

[restive river]

Locking the progenitor behind the eximus’ element (which I don’t even think there is an eximus for every lich element) would make the process already slower than it is, by having it tied to the frame you the player can choose and just have to cycle through til you get one with the weapon you want
What we need is the ability to see what frame is tied to what element for the system and a way to skip a lich if we really don’t want it

[eternal sand]

But what if we also tied the weapon to the planet they are on. 2 per planet so you can have 1 for male liches and the other for female liches

[restive river]

What

Why does them being male or female matter in relation to their weapons?

[eternal sand]

Female grineer often carry physically heavier weapons and it can help tie more weapons to a planet while limiting randomness

[restive river]

The current lich system is mostly fine, it needs some QoL that Codas have for sure but most of it is fine

[restive river]

Can you source that? Cause I don’t believe I’ve ever seen that specific thing

[eternal sand]

https://wiki.warframe.com/w/Heavy_Gunner

[restive river]

Like all Grineer can carry heavy weapons so I’m doubting it’s leaning towards one gender or the other entirely
Also it would just be better to rework the lich and sister system to be more like the coda system in terms of acquiring the weapons
But even as is the biggest issue is just having to replay an honestly really short mission til you get the weapon you want and the fact the progenitors aren’t listed anywhere in-game, a player who doesn’t have access to the wiki has to ask others or go off vibes or experimentation

[restive river]

Ok linking the wiki doesn’t tell me anything.

I’m not seeing anything that specifically states female grineer carry heavier weapons more than male grineer

Also I’d argue you take out the fun random aspect of what the lich will be when you make them if you literally separate them between male and female

[eternal sand]

• "Female Grineer usually carry heavier weapons"
• Source it
• (Links the source to the heavy gunner, an all female unit who carries heavy weapons)
• This doesn't tell me anything!

[restive river]

Also the idea of eximus units over larva just
Ignores the lore

[restive river]

It’s one type of unit, that doesn’t mean a majority of female grineer wield heavy weapons

Just means heavy gunners are female

Do you have something that shows maybe
Every grineer unit and comparing their weapon to their gender to identify if your claim is true beyond the observation of a single enemy?

[silk atlas]

• Ignores all the other heavy-weapons male units like the Napalm and Bombard

Which was part of the "Grineer faction is a matriarchy" conversation we had before

[restive river]

Yeah that’s what I’m saying :p

Like when I think of heavy weapon grineer the first one that comes to mind for me is Nox

[silk atlas]

There isn't even any reason any of these units specifically have to be sexed anyway it just seems like DE really doesn't want to make two of every humanoid unit like how they backed out of making a male/female for every frame really early on.

[restive river]

Which is really fair tbh

And since the Grineer are clones anyway it’s fine

[forest lagoon]

"this woman take antidepressants and the only friends i see who take them are women. this must mean that only women take antidepressants"

[quiet ruin]

Talking like a greentext immediately invalidates your opinion anyways

[ashen pulsar]

This is like saying men are better at politics than women because no woman has been a president of the US.

It’s a Texas sharpshooter fallacy. One point of evidence that shows that a group of female grineer carry heavy weapons is not evidence that on average, female grineer carry heavier weapons than male ones

[ocean geyser]

The only female grineer units are heavy gunners, scorpions and ballistas
Only one of which even use heavy weapons

[eternal sand]

Alright @restive river I will admit. I'm biased and possibly inaccurate. I don't wish for this argument to continue

[restive river]

[feral cape]

I on the other hand do

Ducky you are wrong

[eternal sand]

Lore question: where do grineer get their last names? Grineer with high standing get last names while grunts get their batch label and clone number. So where do the big guys get the last name? Is it given to them or chosen?

[feral cape]

Dunno probably a rite of ascendancy

[restive river]

https://tenor.com/view/squirrel-disintegration-meme-ai-meme-funny-gif-5585270952676380091

[hexed oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/uma-musume-umamusume-tachyon-agnes-tachyon-no-gif-11573472153353517520

[eternal sand]

Can we beat up the arbiters of hexis? They have sentinels that can completely negate damage but they don't give it to us, only our enemies. Not even a summon! Give us your resources arbiters, quit funding the enemy

[eternal sand]

https://tenor.com/view/agnes-tachyon-truth-correct-correct-hypothesis-truth-nuke-gif-12285430183457988780

[mint laurel]

bruh, i just realized something

[restive river]

Yes Albrecht gave the scary thing he saw in the void a lot of names

[tall echo]

It's a test of your skill

[restive river]

We’re called devil and demon too
Doesn’t mean we are one

[mint laurel]

ik, but there's something poetic in this, let me do a little search

[tall echo]

Something coincidental

[eternal sand]

And my reward should be the item used to test me. Like how I made a grakatta to shoot all the clones who shot me with their grakattas

[mint laurel]

Albrecht created him, and calls him "The adversary" aka Satan, the devil

[eternal sand]

Wally wasn't created. Wally just was.

[strange plinth]

wally wasn't doing much prior to albrecht breaking into the void if he did properly exist

[mint laurel]

duh, u know what i mean

The thing is

[eternal sand]

I think Bird 3 describes it best when he explains becoming sapient "once I was a what, now I'm a who"

Wally was essentially an animal, unaware of their own existence, then human consciousness broke through and filled the Void(tm) with human consciousness. Wally, confused, wondering what was who, reached out, Albrecht in fear, closed the gate, cutting off this confused beings finger. Now this what only knew that they existed and that someone just hurt them

[mint laurel]

Albrecht gave him a form, and who imitated Wally for the first time?

He took shape in the image and likeness of Albretch, a man

🚬

[eternal sand]

I mean... It's more like a faceless wall vitruvian... Not really Albrecht... In fact with how it appears to be naked it's more like Albrechts fantasies about Loid

[strange plinth]

i wouldn't call it just confused, necessarily, calling albrecht by the name his mother called him and reaching out in what sounds like the standard "deal" fashion

[mint laurel]

i mean in the first contact

in Albretch dairy on Deimos

"but it wasn't her, it was me"

[eternal sand]

(Wally peers into Albrechts mind and part of him is stuck in Wally) "... Why am I attracted to "twinks" with mustaches?"

[mint laurel]

"a reflection, but with dimension"

[mint laurel]

Not twinks, British femboys

[eternal sand]

Hey don't say that word. They might hear you

The nezha truth suppressors

[vale bronze]

If Limbo ever gets a protoframe skin; it should be Albert Entrati(imo). What do you all think? It seems reasonable to me that Albert did something to himself to make himself physically stronger as can be seen in the Hex Finale where he used a Lex (prime I think ?) one handed, and he just seems to fit Limbo's style(being a rift walker explains how elusive he always is) and fashion imo.

[restive river]

If anyone is gonna be a limbo proto it’s gonna be Loid, he already looks like Limbo prime
Also I really doubt Albrecht would inject himself with the helminth strain unless it was a last resort as being a proto does not mean you won’t fully transform, just that it’s slowed

[heady quest]

I don’t wanna see what the Albrecht Hivemind would look like 😩

He better not have an infested tongue like Eleanor

[proper barn]

Warframes aren't part of the hive mind.

[heady quest]

Yeah I know, I was just thinking about if Albrecht just injected himself with infestation. Should have been more clear sry

[proper barn]

Helmith is infestation

[heady quest]

I know I know nevermind just a stupid thought

[restive river]

That would in fact mean they are part of the hivemind

In fact
Lizzie

Literally helminth, literally part of the hive mind, literally connected to a frame

We also do have Eleanor but she’s connected to the techrot due to being infected by it, but she is connected
Also cause her mind powers ofc so she’s a special case

[proper barn]

Okay Lizzie is werid Cuz it feels like she's techrot and helmith

[restive river]

Warframes aren’t part of the hivemind in the same way other infested are though ofc

[restive river]

She’s more helminth than techrot

I don’t believe Flare was infected but I may be wrong

Either way
The infested is still connected

From helminth to techrot
So
It doesnt matter much

[proper barn]

I agree. It just seems like the reason she is a bit different is cuz of that. Like if the Helminth virus made people connected to the hive mind I feel like we would have way more like warframes working for the Infested.

[restive river]

Eeh, they can be connected to the hivemind and not be controlled by the rest of the infested

We know Helminth is

1. A domesticate strain
   And
2. It loves about us

[proper barn]

Yeah.

[restive river]

I like to think of the infestation’s hivemind and different strains as different parts of the brain
It’s all one cohesive mind but different areas do different things, still connected and capable of communicating

[proper barn]

I still want the Infested ship update damnit.

Give me that quest.

[restive river]

me too buddy

me too

[proper barn]

I still belive

[stiff beacon]

What like an updated derelict tileset?

[proper barn]

No a infested RJ/infested ship tileset update. Like it's in the Corpus ship the oldest tile set In the game.

The derlitv is fine

[stiff beacon]

you mean the eris tileset

[proper barn]

Ship specifically but yeah

[stiff beacon]

yea its needs a face lift

[strange plinth]

there was concept art of it, wasn't there?

[proper barn]

WE'VE SEEN A NEW ONE IN TRAILERS

[stiff beacon]

especially the concept art background of eris for the exterior parts

[stiff beacon]

can you back that up with evidence

or is it straight copium

[proper barn]

Yes but it's 3am it's in a android trailer

[stiff beacon]

you sure it just wasnt andriod graphics playing tricks on you

[strange plinth]

found this w/ a quick search

which is definitely the new corpus tileset w/ infested bits

[stiff beacon]

well shit

[proper barn]

SEE

I'M NOT CRAZY

YOU'RE CRAZY

I'VE SEEN'T IT

[stiff beacon]

though im surprised they're using all the granum bits given deadlock protocol happens after solaris united, and most of the abandonded ships out by eris were there before the retrofit of deadlock protocol

[strange plinth]

jackal arena too? interesting

[strange plinth]

yeah it does make more sense to keep the old corpus ship designs
but that tileset could still use a touch-up

[stiff beacon]

or you know

just remove the granum shit from the infested version of this tileset and do a bit more touch up work

around where the granum bits were

[proper barn]

No it doesn't the infestation on eris attacks any ship that gets near it @stiff beacon

It can be new ships. Tackles you.

[strange plinth]

it could be new ships, yeah
kinda leaves the question of why the corpus would still be throwing ships at eris, though
not like they wouldn't lol

[stiff beacon]

i mean unless they bring back arlo there isnt any reason for the corpus to go out there in their pimped out ships

unless its alad v's little group of dumbasses

and patient zero takes place after deadlock now

or dead lock takes place before patient zero

[glacial bough]

It doesn't. In game quest order doesn't reflect timeline

[strange plinth]

wouldn't be opposed to a more proper rewrite of patient zero
its placement is already weird

[stiff beacon]

kinda hard to pin down shit when there's not an offical timeline outside of main quests

itd would help if they made the events that lead into quests like PZ were mini quests

so that theres more of a coherent timeline of events

when it comes to side quests

[lean garden]

I mean sometimes the infestation can hit targets in space

its not like they landed on eris and got infested

[stiff beacon]

fair

[proper barn]

@stiff beacon part of my want is having a deadlock style quest to introduce the main hive mind

Which has been teased a lot.

[stiff beacon]

what of eris or the infestation in general?

because the latter be working on some tyranid level of gigantic

[heady quest]

isn't eris still a giant garbage dumb for the corpus?

i think in the fragments it is stated that the corpus are still dumbing all their trash on eris

[humble sierra]

Wdym by "Main hivemind"?

[heady quest]

idk i think i want the nora stories to be small little side quests when we discover the planet

like the eris hivemind getting introduced when we first enter eris and then the arlo mission on deimos be unlocked after

and the wolf getting introduced after we enter saturn

and they redirecting to the nora stories

nihil after the saya's vigil quest

i just want them to reintroduce the very old story events somehow into the world. Not as in quest but just small dialoge whenever we first discover a planet or something

like tethra's doom

[heady quest]

nvm i am completely wrong

[strange turtle]

Tbf I could kinda see it. Like Little Bengal is a name that would be used a lot in his early life, so considering how quickly it happened (also that weird memory thing that was going on) it wouldn’t be surprising if that was just the name Wally knew the most

[strange turtle]

Why wouldn’t they be?

Checked and yeah, they were

[vale bronze]

But he doesn't have the....uh...the uh.... Not sure what to call it....the flamboyancy ? Radical "show off"ness ? Limbo seems like the type to "aura farm", not necessarily Loid though, but that's just how his character struck me, idk.

Albert, as seen at the very start of the Hex sequence, shows himself to Arthur and disappears afterwards, as I don't recall he said or did anything important when he appeared, so it felt more as if Albert showed up for the fun of it, or as the cool kids say, "aura farm".

[strange plinth]

there's not a ton of correlation between the personality of the proto and their associated frame

[vale bronze]

And Limbo, as seen in his (gonna call it that, but no clue what it's actually called) introduction page, literally strikes a pose after killing those around him, and the original Limbo(none prime variant) is acquired via a quest that has you going all over the system to fetch the remains of. Limbo that tried a dangerous void jump for seemingly no reason other than the heck of it, a show off personality.

[vale bronze]

Tbh, all the previous protoframes were for frames that never had much character showing to begin with,

Limbo clearly shows alot of character in how he moves and behaves, which is shared by only a few other frames like Dante, Grendel, Volt, Gauss, Valkyr, basically every Warframe with a leverian(I think).

[heady quest]

yo limbo is such a missed opportunity. Like they made a whole quest of him to not be used after that

[strange plinth]

what would they use him for? he kinda scattered himself across the system by mathing too hard

[vale bronze]

Also Yareli.

[vale bronze]

Also, a legendary way to go out. "Mathing too hard" 🤣

[vale bronze]

Also, Amir's entire personality and character gig is about being "amped" as in always overcharged and overdosed(on caffeine specifically), which perfectly captures the spirit of a Warframe called "Volt", and Arthur is an edge lord who likes to brood, and Excalibur has always been seen as a ninja. They seem to match to me.

[restive river]

The person and the frame don’t have to have the same personality
Plus Limbo literally did mathematic equations, he was some form of scientist
Loid fits better than Albrecht 1000%

[glacial bough]

You can make Amir work, sure, but only him, and Flare fit any assumed personality

[vale bronze]

Albert wasn't a scientist?

[restive river]

Ah thank you

[restive river]

He was and is and so is Loid.

[glacial bough]

All the other protos are chosen by profession/aptitude

[vale bronze]

Come again please ? The one who was Loid's master wasn't a scientist?

[restive river]

Flare was likely chosen for being rebellious and Temple not being created for being rebellious

[restive river]

Albrecht was literally a scientist

[vale bronze]

Idk know about Temple, haven't bothered to speak with him that much.

[vale bronze]

Yeah ?

[restive river]

Them

[vale bronze]

Ah yes, sorry, forgor about Lezzi.

[restive river]

My point is if we go the personality and visual route, Loid fits better than Albrecht

[glacial bough]

Flare mostly perfectly fit the intended aesthetic for Temple

[restive river]

Nope
Flare is nonbinary, Lizzie is she/her.

[heady quest]

nah like i meant lore wise. But that can be said by a lot of old frames tbh

like before he mathed himself into oblivion

[restive river]

Look at Limbo Prime and then look at Loid
That’s all I’m sayin’

[glacial bough]

Every other proto has nothing really to do with personality, just aptitude

[vale bronze]

Now that's new to me. 🗿

[glacial bough]

Like Lettie is Trinity purely because she a medic, same with Quincy and Cyte as a sniper

[strange plinth]

he could get a leverian or something ig
because his quest doesn't have a ton more than 'he's scattered around lol'

[restive river]

Tbh if Albrecht ever made himself into a proto, which uh. Last resort.
He’d make himself Dante or maybe even Xaku, frames relating to the void

[restive river]

And now you know! :D

[strange plinth]

-# albrecht as a xaku proto. that's an interesting image..

[heady quest]

imagine he pulls out the woman frame of Xaku 💀

[restive river]

I don’t think you know how the strains work

[heady quest]

isn't xaku three frames in one?

[restive river]

Their bodied are being turned into the frame, they are becoming the frame

[restive river]

Yes
He can’t pull out an entire third of them :p

[heady quest]

so like which ever part he takes a strain out of is the original frame he will become right?

[strange plinth]

the three frames that make them up are lost
seemingly forever. no backups on those i guess

[heady quest]

but xaku is fragments of the different frames?

[restive river]

No, Xaku is 3 fragmented but they are one now

[heady quest]

ah

[pale cedar]

Xaku is 3 frames combined together

[restive river]

The only remnants of the 3 being the Lost ability and what visuals remain
They are kinda like the Lotus, 3 as 1

[heady quest]

so all the fragments are the same infestation essentially?

[restive river]

I doubt if you took a sample from one of the third you’d get that third fully
They’re intertwined by the void

[heady quest]

or like became molecularily the same

[restive river]

It’s all helminth anyway

[strange plinth]

xaku was primed after their return from the void, so that batch/strain exists in some capacity as one

[restive river]

Xaku is composed of the 3 frames but they themselves are more than them

[heady quest]

mmmh interesting. I always had this vision that some day we could see xaku being torn apart to make the three frames again

[pale cedar]

I remember there was an argument a bit ago can’t remember if it was in this server or the other but someone was fully convinced Xaku being combined meant there was fully new strain

[heady quest]

ah that's true yeah

[restive river]

I still think Albrecht doing it makes the most sense, especially since Xaku’s whole everything is tied to the void and the reqiuems/voidtongue which only the entratis seemed to know about iirc? Might be wrong on that

[restive river]

No, it arguably goes against the whole idea that the three frames they were are lost forever if we just
Bring them back!

Also 3 frames at once is asking too much from DE :p

[strange plinth]

they have the entrati motif all over them as well in their prime design
n the frames were lost on entrati void expeditions, it makes sense for albrecht to prime them

[restive river]

And to make it a thing throughout the year would be limiting unless they explicitly work around it

[heady quest]

not as in playable frames XDD but yeah nvm me then

[restive river]

Exactly! You understand me :D

[restive river]

You’re good
But if they showed them people would wanna play them :p

I’ve seen a fan concept and they look really cool

Plus it seemed they were going for 1/3rd female, 1/3rd male and 1/3rd nonbinary

Which while Xaku’s pronouns are they/them cause they’re a multitude they could easily be nonbinary identity-wise or even fluid since they’re multiple individuals as a singular individual

I like Xaku :)

[heady quest]

yo what if in the next quest we get like a glimpse of three warframe statues who are the three of xaku

[vale bronze]

You miss something I mentioned previously, the warframes that are the Hex members have never had much personality showing to begin with, give me a warframe that had personality traits showing and got a protoframe that doesn't follow said personality traits, not to mention we already have a numbers addict (Kaya I think was her name, she's the one you go to for TA)

[pale cedar]

I have never cared about the frames Xaku was tbh just what Xaku became

[heady quest]

just as an easteregg

[restive river]

Tbh I would kill to see the entrati void expeditions, multiple shadowy smudged frames we never get to properly see, 3 of them may or may not being the ones that compose Xaku

[vale bronze]

Dante I can see, but I think he fits more as Limbo since they both seem to be "show off"y.

[strange plinth]

i think i'm more curious about ivara's lost companions than what makes up xaku tbh

[vale bronze]

Yeah thanks for that.

[restive river]

Albrecht shows off less than any other Orokin
Which he still does but not as egregious

Also again the frame’s personality doesn’t have to match the individual who gets the strain

[heady quest]

Albrecht finna become Qorvex

[restive river]

🤯

[heady quest]

to one v one wally

[vale bronze]

Limbo is a Rift walker who is far more elusive than Xaku, and Albert can be seen TPing out of view and character's line of sight which matches more with Limbo's play style.

[tall echo]

A proto qorvex would very quickly develop some kind of turbo cancer

[pale cedar]

I’d see Albrecht more of a Limbo than Qorvex

[heady quest]

yo if proto Qorvex is not some hard shelled construction worker i am out of here

[restive river]

Idk Xaku’s pretty elusive with being a frame literally held by and being a master of the void, also again they have more of a connection to Entrati

[restive river]

Sooo
The infestation?

[tall echo]

No one could survive being that close to a poorly protected nuclear reactor

[vale bronze]

@restive river You missed this point.

[tall echo]

Wait did qorvex unintentionally tease the ending of 1999

[restive river]

Arthur kinda did?

[vale bronze]

Maybe, idk about the connection though.

[tall echo]

Not for very long tho

[heady quest]

did albrecht put an unstable qorvex in that reactor?

[restive river]

Every frame’s idle anims is an example of their personality, it’s a literal remnant of who they were

[tall echo]

Qorvex is always unstable

And leaking a lot of radiation

[heady quest]

so like whenever we do defence we are kinda... like failing the cryopod anyway

damn that is dark tbh

[tall echo]

Albrecht is an idiot for making qorvex's "breathing" literally open and close the conkcrete shell

[restive river]

You get Xaku from the Heart of Deimos quest
Their Prime has Entrati Obols and came with the Trumna which was released with Deimos and specifically Entrati-made
Their abilities and lore relate to the void which Entrati is a scientist of
Xata’s Whisper and Grasp of Lohk literally have voidtongue in them, which Albrecht discovered

There’s more of a connection than rift walker with a cool hat

[restive river]

He shoulda made him with lead instead or concrete

[vale bronze]

Yeah, what part of the idle animation doesn't match ? Also I mentioned specifying Warframes with much personality showing, some warframes like the primary Hex Warframes(I think) never had much personality showing, unlike the Warframes I mentioned before who do show great amounts of personality(when I mentioned some frames like Grendel, Yareli, Valkyr, I already mentioned some before in said message).

[heady quest]

concrete is also used for shielding. you just need a bigger shell but yeah

[tall echo]

Concrete is a good enough isolator iirc just not when you constantly open up multiple cracks in it

[vale bronze]

You're probably right with that, but Albert is one person, I don't see why he would get fused with 2 other people to make an Xaku.

[heady quest]

wait did we just create Qorvex prime? Him being covered in lead?

[strange plinth]

qorvex is kind of a "screw collateral damage" frame huh

[tall echo]

Gilded lead

Gead?

[heady quest]

Orokin Lead

[tall echo]

Very much yes and it's fun

[heady quest]

like in orokin gold

[stiff beacon]

well no of course not he frankenstiened it

[restive river]

I mean Excal Umbra exists but he is a specific special case
Aside from that I do think DE is trying to pick frames that don’t have as much to them, Wisp has like no lore and Harrow’s only connection is to Rell so there’s def a pattern of that
If we went with a frame with a more defined story or personality Dante’s a better pick than Xaku or Limbo

[heady quest]

i would love to see an MRI frame

[pale cedar]

I wonder how Albrecht made the wood in the Backroom unbreakable when a Warframe can bullet jump in it without it breaking

[restive river]

That’s certainly an assumption as to how being infected with the Xaku strain would work

[heady quest]

Orokin Wood

[strange plinth]

he wouldn't need to. the batch exists to inject himself with, just as with other frames

[heady quest]

the infestation

[stiff beacon]

maybe it takes more then one strain

[heady quest]

IT'S IN THE WALLS

[tall echo]

It's albrecht btw

[restive river]

Maybe, at most I could see it resulting in multiple personalities forming

[stiff beacon]

that too

[restive river]

Xaku is
A really weird frame since they’re one of, if not the only frame to not be traditionally made

[tall echo]

Mirage technically was unintentional

[restive river]

Like
Their original parts are normal frames but they broke and the void remade them as something entirely new

[restive river]

She’s man-made and was still infected normally

[tall echo]

Yeah but then it went slightly wrong

[restive river]

Xaku just
Wasn’t? They’re three people infected with the helminth strain that died or were hurt so badly the void put them back together, somehow

[tall echo]

I wonder what frame it would've been originally

[strange plinth]

rev is the only other one that kinda fits
whatever warden was + eidolon stuff

[vale bronze]

You're not wrong with that opinion, but I just think Entrati, a person who commonly shows up to appear cool before disappearing again, often for no reason, and he's hailed as an uncontested genius, matches Limbo, a math magician who likes to "aura farm", more than Loid who seems like a mostly down to earth wholesome person who is just trying to get by, but still shouldn't be underestimated in smarts matches Dante, the knowledge seeking, knowledge loving Warframe, but that's just my opinion.

[restive river]

I knew I was forgetting one!

[vale bronze]

Possibly.

[tall echo]

Frame personality really doesn't need to match proto personality

[vale bronze]

Auto correct fixes it to Albert, and I can't be bothered to change it.

[tall echo]

Turn off autocorrect

[restive river]

Again the frame doesn’t need to match 1:1 as we have seen
I do also think part of this is your own personal bias cause you seem to think Albrecht is really cool
Which
He is but I’d argue in a different way to Limbo

I could also def see Loid being Dante too, visually he matches Limbo Prime but Loid knew Dante so that would actually make for a neat storyline

[vale bronze]

Correct, but it feels better to do it for Warframe that tend to show more personalities, which so far is none of the existing protoframes.

[tall echo]

I executed the usually incorrect autocorrect mini-subroutine

[pale cedar]

Do you think The Sacrifice lore was info for players that we already knew lore wise or do you think we had forgot lore wise and was getting refreshed on it

[heady quest]

remind me gang

[restive river]

Since Albrecht has, presumably, every strain he could be any frame, it’s up to him

[heady quest]

why are we actually following albrecht?

[vale bronze]

Wastes too much time for such a little inconvenience.

[restive river]

So obviously
He’ll be Nokko

[restive river]

He’s got more of a plan for Wally than we do rn

[heady quest]

like i don't remember the chain of events that lead us to follow albrecht around

[restive river]

He’s also helping us here and there

[tall echo]

Info we didn't know

[restive river]

Replay Whispers in the Wall

[heady quest]

when did we learn about him actually?

[heady quest]

mmh alr

[tall echo]

Depends

[restive river]

His logs
If you dont read those then Deimos with Mother and then Whispers

[strange plinth]

alluded to in heart of deimos but i don't think we got detail until whispers?
oh yeah requiem stuff in necraloid's room

[heady quest]

as the tenno i mean, in the quests. When did the tenno learn about albrecht

[tall echo]

The albrecht logs were originally unlocked one by one

[heady quest]

oh right

[restive river]

Wally’s his fault, interpret that however you want
And he’s taking responsibility

[tall echo]

Then DE gave up and unlocked all of them with a quest

[pale cedar]

Parvos mentions the Entrati before Heart of Deimos ever came out

[vale bronze]

It's not necessarily that I see him(Albert) as cool, as it is him trying to make himself look cool with the normally pointless appearances, he reminds of the boys(friend group) when they try to "aura farm" and fail miserably.

[strange plinth]

oh?

[heady quest]

it's just. I don't really remember how we got from Ballas and Narmer to Alrbecht being the villain kinda

[restive river]

I don’t really see it but to each their own

[tall echo]

Eh

[restive river]

He’s not really a villain?

I mean he
Sucks and everyone is justified in hating him

[vale bronze]

Understandable, have a great day.

[tall echo]

Wally is the villain, albrecht is the method to go after wally

[stiff beacon]

Dudes been flying by the seat of his pants day one

[restive river]

But the villain right now is Wally and we just have to follow Albrecht despite how awful he is because he has the closest thing to a plan

And
We may be running out of time?

Like we have to do SOMETHING

Wally’s our problem now just as much as it is Albrecht’s

[pale cedar]

"Some doors ought to remain closed? That's not in my world view. Fire. Fusion. Void. Progress always comes entangled with risk, with violence. With the precious sample obtained, development is accelerating. The Entrati have kept their secrets long enough."

[vale bronze]

Why exactly is Albert seen as awful again ? Aside from how Edgy he tends to be.

[restive river]

It’s why Drifter went to 1999
It’s likely why Operator will take the memory bath

[tall echo]

Random reminder that wally is absolutely not unstoppable based on how insistent he is that he is in the isleweaver lines

[restive river]

Aside from being an Orokin
He doesn’t care about anything except stopping Wally, he will hurt others just to do it

[strange plinth]

"using people and then throwing them away," getting what he needs at all costs

[restive river]

“The greater good” isn’t a very good excuse

[pale cedar]

Wally keeps losing tbh

[restive river]

Like 90% of the people we’ve met that know Albrecht do not like him for many good reasons

[vale bronze]

"When the enemy mocks your tactic, you know you have him(or was it them ? Idk) beat." No clue where I first heard it, but I knew pretty much from Wally's first message that he was weak as a fool.

[tall echo]

When someone needs to repeatedly tell you how undefeatable and unstoppable they are, they aren't

[lean garden]

usually ends justify the means fellas are seen as doodooheads, because they often justify doing not nice things for the sake of the greater good

[restive river]

Just gotta make sure he doesn’t get that finger

[strange plinth]

-# i can't think about the isleweaver lines without thinking of wally throwing a fit over alchemy

[vale bronze]

It's a deity we're trying to fight though, doesn't seem that evil to me tbh.

[restive river]

Turning people into warframes for no defined purpose was a really awful move from Albrecht

[tall echo]

"IT'S UNNATURAL" says wally after I create the elements the army he commanded uses

[pale cedar]

Thrax for some reason thinks Wally is a god

[restive river]

He’s not a god
And he’s certainly not good, he literally is the reason for multiple issues, especially the Zariman incident which
Is kinda what made our Tenno. The Tenno? Trauma included?

[heady quest]

kinda spoilers idk?
||so like we got narmer invasion (sentients bad but then we destroy pragassa which we then find out about Tau), we go back to whispers because loid calls us. we find out about wally being a bigger threat than first viewed.|| ||We fight wally back and subsequently find out about 1999 and that albrecht is there. We go after him (that's when i don't understand why, because lotus is just like: something is calling from there go check it out?). We find albrecht and him saying we gotta destroy 1999 and then he goes to Tau.|| ||And now with old peace we have to search for a way to go to Tau to follow albrecht by reliving out memories on what happened over there. And it will all go back to narmer?||

[vale bronze]

(I ment Albert)

[tall echo]

I want to show him what I did to tuvul's statue and ask him very politely with my lex to his head why he did that to the protos

[heady quest]

sry i am just piecing together the timeline of events

[vale bronze]

I know Wally is evil.

[vale bronze]

Emphasis on usually, but this time I actually do think the end justifies the mean.

[strange plinth]

there's stuff in the netracells and albrecht's logs that explain how 1999 is really relevant iirc? beyond the "teaser" sequence during whispers