lore-discussion

[digital grail]

No

Thatd be a weird way to kill your game

[humble sierra]

Second Dream teaser

[oblique siren]

As someone who came into Warframe vaugely aware that the protoframes were a thing, I spent a good long while thinking that the protoframes were somehow going to become the actual frames, and that the story would reveal this. XD Sometimes it's fun to get into something new with half knowledge

[velvet cradle]

Yea.

Have you done the sacrifice quest yet

[oblique siren]

I've done all the quests,but don't remember which name goes to which quest. Is that Umbra? XD

[eager dragon]

Yes

[oblique siren]

Thank

[vital lion]

Not out of the question

[rich stump]

With the exception of Flare/Temple, it very much is out of the question actually

[vital lion]

Oh i thought that was just for everybody

[rich stump]

The warframes were only made during the old war, WAY after 1999, and that’s when all the original frames (except Temple) originated

[vital lion]

I know that I just think they'll all turn into the respective frames eventually just cause inferring from Flare's situation it could be assumed that it also applies to the other Protoframes

[rich stump]

I mean, it is possible that the rest of the protoframes going to the future and becoming full warframes could be a future plot point

[vital lion]

yeah, should've explained myself better

[untold acorn]

In the signal the tempestarii who helped the lady

[tall echo]

The protos eventually become full frames but not the originals

[tall echo]

"There's a man on high with the devil in his eye and a golden hand I'm told"

[pine mortar]

parvos granum i believe, learn more about him in deadlock protocol

[half vortex]

I know it was confirmed that Father Lyon is not Rell, so I'm pretty sure only Temple has the "goes into future, becomes the prototypical frame" arc. Maybe Cyte-09.

[untold acorn]

It seemed like a warframe hand to me 😭

O nvm I got his cutsence

[tall echo]

Cyte existed before

[half vortex]

Otherwise they mention their progenitors in passing, like how Eleanor waxes poetic about the original Nyx.

[untold acorn]

Alad V????

[half vortex]

Ah cool, I must have missed that.

[tall echo]

No

[rich stump]

Of course Father Lyon isn’t Rell, one’s a Protoframe the other is a Tenno

As far as we know the Tenno are completely immune to the infestation too

[half vortex]

Some people are completely convinced the protoframes are the original frames, like their source. It's a little frustrating to have to explain.

[vital lion]

that might be the warframe mate

[tall echo]

Likely just bc the infestation is scared of the void

[digital grail]

That could be how we get them to the future and figure out how to re partial them

Or kaya

[tall echo]

"Re partialing" them probably isn't an option considering how the transformation works

[digital grail]

Yeah

Kaya finding a way to get them here would be cool

[vital lion]

Get them apartments in a relay

[lean garden]

I mean, it took flare a very specific set of events that only they were subject to, to even achieve temple in the present day, even I wouldnt assume that the rest of the protos are subject to the same things given how specific the event was

[vital lion]

Are you talking about the ||Bleeding on his guitar thing||?

[lean garden]

not only that Im talking about everything the makes flare into temple

like the whole scenario is highly specific to flare

to the point that it being repeated for the other protos is unlikely

[vital lion]

Okay I think Flare's situation is exceptional(being a bootstrap paradox) but he still went through the whole protoframe thing and is a protoframe so it's safe to assume his rules apply to the the other protoframes

[lean garden]

oh its not even a bootstrap

[digital grail]

Yes and exclusive dialogue

[lean garden]

but it aint safe to assume that their rules apply to the other protos

[digital grail]

Like "oy oy im arthur this the future in it slurps tea aggressively Britishly

[lean garden]

like their own exceptional situation makes it that it is very not safe to assume its the same for the other protos

[vital lion]

Yes it is? they turn into temple the source of their protoform dna, making it a loop without a beginning or end.

[bright temple]

*They

[lean garden]

no its not, for it to even work, ballas would have needed to use flare-temple to design the unbuilt pre-temple

[vital lion]

I completely forgot my bad

[lean garden]

which we know, didnt happen

because entrati used that data to make the pre-temple flare

which then via the circumstances within flares concert, transforms them into proto-temple

flare is by no means the source of what entrati used to make them into a protoframe

[vital lion]

it's literally stated that Flare turns into temple

[lean garden]

because albrecht wasnt around for the night of naga drum

[lean garden]

okay cool, its not stated that that temple is the source of the batch that turns flare into pre-temple

like critically albrecht is not around when temple arrives in the future on the night of naga drums

so albrecht could not have taken anything from temple to turn flare into pre-temple

we know that albrecht leaves for 1999 during the Old War, because when we first recover Loid from his sleepyeepy pod, Loid drops a remark that lets us know he went under during the Old War

and we know Albrecht leaves for 1999 permanently before this

the Night of Naga Drums happens after the Orokin think theyve won the Old War

so timeline wise, given that temple arrives at the Night of Naga Drums, albrecht is already long gone, meaning that temple at the night of naga drums, bore no influence in transforming flare into temple

[vital lion]

Okay, i'm starting to see your point but Ballas never built Temple in the first place so how can Albrecht have the Temple injection if there's no way to produce it? Unless he straight up just turns into temple directly from the injection, like the first gen warframes.

[lean garden]

designs exist

never build but the legwork already done

albrecht wouldnt have an issue prepping an actual batch from those designs

[vital lion]

But how the heck does he have the designs???

[normal mountain]

Albrecht made Qorvex, so he has experience building warframes

[normal mountain]

He stole them

[lean garden]

thievery

[vital lion]

Fair, i was just being obtuse at this point

[stiff beacon]

i still question how he managed to stick a demon core into a person without dying

[lean garden]

its sci-fi doohickey man, it doesnt have to stick to hard rules

[normal mountain]

The Orokin survived at least 18 Radiation Wars
If they haven't figured out how to deal with radiation yet, I'd be concerned

[vital lion]

Assumedly the same way we do, with a protective suit

[digital grail]

Idk mid frame afaction

[sly ibex]

Ballas never built it, but he did create the strain. The mail message from Flare says as much.

[woven coyote]

Similar to how we can have a blueprint but dont need to do anything with it, you can just leave it in storage

[misty salmon]

The most unlikely part of that whole chain of events is Ballas looking at something and going "Nope, I can't control THIS"

[sly ibex]

Yeah, honestly that's the thing that felt weird about that mail to me lol. Ballas not trying to make something for fear of losing control. That's all he ever did, though. Make things he and the Orokin lost control of. XD

[rustic gate]

Is ts tuff

[normal mountain]

I interpreted that bit as Ballas having a rare moment of insight in that he could tell this warframe would never want to be controlled
It was too radical, too rebellious by its own nature

And maybe, just maybe, would encourage any Operator it had to be rebellious as well

I also find it funny that he just canned the whole thing after designing it
Like, he didn't even try to "fix" it, just got scared and tossed it in the trash

[oblique siren]

Is there a place to read about the Night of Naga Drums? Or is it something in game I can find? owo

[normal mountain]

Not really
It's mentioned all over
Stalker's Codex entry, Jade's Promise, the Crimes of Kullervo

Those are just off the top of my head

[oblique siren]

Thank you c:

[sly ibex]

Sorry, is what tough?

[sly ibex]

Just feels weird, since literally every single other one turned on them before the discovery of us being able to control them was made. So... Why not build that one lol

[rustic gate]

Don’t u see

[tall echo]

No that looks like a screenshot, not a specific kind of rock

[proper barn]

Explain with more words.

[sly ibex]

I just see you, your Taxon, and a flotation ring lol

[proper barn]

Be specific.

[rustic gate]

No

[tall echo]

Bad attempt at being cool by making edgy red image

[rustic gate]

Sure

[sly ibex]

Let's not be rude to each other, please. 😛

[rustic gate]

Yall are uncs

[sly ibex]

But back to actual lore now...

[normal mountain]

Yes
But Operators will still take on part if their warframe's mannerisms
If a warframe were a rebel to the core, they might convince their Operator to rebel
That would be a serious risk to take, wouldn't it?

[sly ibex]

Between the Warframes, the Sentients, and who knows how much other stuff that have turned on the Orokin (including whatever the first true AI they had was that made it forbidden by the time the Sentients were being made), the idea that Temple is what gave Ballas pause just seems silly to me.

[normal mountain]

Well, maybe he learned something for once

and only once

[sly ibex]

Oh wait a tic... Here's an idea. That could just have been Kaya/Flare's takes on the situation.

Maybe it was one that Ballas came up with but never got to make before the initial stop to the Warframe project, then just didn't want to bother with it once the project resumed.

[normal mountain]

Maybe

Or maybe he just forgot about it when the project resumed

I still like the idea that it was too rebellious for him

[sly ibex]

It just feels too odd to me, for that to be the case. Hek, there's Kullervo, after all lol

[half vortex]

Yeah, it's probably slightly unreliable narrator, especially since we can't ask Ballas anymore. But still, I love how Yareli was rebellious and he thought he could tame her by turning her into a Warframe, but Temple? Oh no...

I have a feeling Ballas sensed the timey-wimey-ness of Temple and refused to touch the frame. Same with how Revenant Prime broadsided him.

[normal mountain]

The difference being that Yareli was a person
Temple was the Warframe design itself

[half vortex]

Well, Flare and Temple. Though I don't imagine Flare was aware/unsubsumed enough to experience Naga Drums when they hit that timeframe.

[normal mountain]

Maybe he tried to fix the rebellious aura the thing had, and couldn't
Then said "screw this, I'm done!"

[pine mortar]

we also don't know about xaku prime yet

although, thought just hit me, the old peace may add context to revenant prime

[half vortex]

Lavos Prime probably created himself.

[sly ibex]

Old Peace is Caliban Prime.

[normal mountain]

I'm willing to bet Xaku Prime was an Entrati original
They have the obel designs on them

[pine mortar]

well yes, but revenant prime is also a hybrid of orokin and sentient design

[sly ibex]

Not from its inception, though. It was a Warframe that got corrupted by Eidolon energies.

Would be cool to see what the original was... Maybe Old Peace could be a chance to see the Warden.

[pine mortar]

right right right, the unnamed wardenframe

[tall echo]

And kullervo got punished when he got caught trying to do betrayal

[sly ibex]

I thought he was only punished after multiple acts of betrayal?

I might be misremembering the lore, though.

[tall echo]

He believes to have been sentenced for 7 crimes but most of them aren't exactly crimes

The hold was created by kullervo after all

[sly ibex]

True.

[swift sentinel]

Most likely timeline seems like
Entrati sends multiple Frames into the Void
Xaku comes out
Entrati upgrades Xaku into a Prime

[limber oracle]

I have a question about primes, are they the original versions? OR, are they an improvement upon the original frame design in order to make them deadlier … because I would assume you could start with a prime and Y’know mass production and all, quality would suffer a bit

[pine mortar]

if memory serves they are the original (though lavos is a unique case)

[humble sierra]

Some are, some aren't

"Primes were reserved for the Prime Vanguard. The best of the best, and the rest... are adequate, I guess. If you're satisfied with merely adequate"

"Some Warframes were Prime from the start. Others earned it. Ballas never told the whole truth."

[pine mortar]

oh right

[limber oracle]

🤯

The more I learn … the more I love it. Thank you @pine mortar and @humble sierra

[humble sierra]

We know Excalibur Prime was the first of the Primes, and I think the Primes were made specifically for Operator-use?

Could be mistaken about the last part though

actually it wouldn't make sense for some Warframes

[silk atlas]

They're all made for Operators when Operators became a thing

[humble sierra]

disregard that last part

Just learnt Amir was meant to be named "Jabir"

[limber oracle]

And Excalibur Umbra is special because of his retention of his mind right? His own individuality

Every other one is just a shell?

[humble sierra]

All of them had the potential for it, Ballas specifically kept Umbra's memories (one memory, of him killing his own family) intact as a form of torture

[limber oracle]

Ah okay, Umbra, I believe sticks out to me and many others I’m sure because of how messed up his backstory is. And the Stalker too, I mean honestly there are so many of them that are just f’n heartbreaking

[humble sierra]

very few Warframes have happy tales, unfortunately

[limber oracle]

The stories though … I wish there were DEEP dives into the lore

[fierce jay]

All of the original warframes were like Umbra. The ones we build are replicas of those originals, but the initial ones were still sentient beings. Jade being a great example, as in her extra lore she describes how ||she is still aware and in control even as she was given to a Tenno. She describes how she helps the nervous kid controlling her to calm down and master her skills and their own emotions.||

[limber oracle]

Omg you’re right! I remember this!

[fierce jay]

Basically, the act of creating a new warframe required a living human as the base material for the abilities and physiology to be designed around. Interestingly, we do have one example of a willing volunteer, that being ||Gara.|| Once they had a template, they could use that to create the purely golem-like copies that were prodcued in greater numbers for use by the Tenno.

However, it's ambiguous as to whether or not the initial batches of copies were created by using a host, or just assembly. It's likely that a lot of the initial wave of warframes were subsumed people, before they turned on the Orokin as Ballas describes in the Vitruvean.

[glacial bough]

All variations of frames started from a human being infested

[humble sierra]

Another thing with ||Gara|| Prime's lore is that it revealed that the Orokin weren't just randomly giving them Helminth and seeing what would happen, they could influence the powers directly. ||When Gara asked to be turned into a Warframe, Nihil (the Cephalon guy) demanded she be "glassed" for her insolence-- turned into a Cephalon. Ballas thought it was funny, so he gave her Glass-based powers||.

[fierce jay]

It really doesn't seem like it at first but Warframe is actually a biopunk setting

[limber oracle]

So Ballas, Margullis and Albrect along with the rest of the Entrati were basically all genetic engineers? Or scientists of similar backgrounds?

[humble sierra]

Albrecht and Euleria (Mother) were more of Void-Researchers than anything, but obviously he had the skills to make Warframes too

[glacial bough]

Only Ballas, Son, and Daughter made a specialty in biological studies

[misty salmon]

Different types of scientists... Margulis was probably some sort of brain/mind specialist, her big contributions seem to be in psychotherapy and transferrence tech.

Ballas is a little unclear, guy clearly had a brain to go with that ego, but he also could bring large sections of the empire's research capability to bear on a problem through political power.... and he would definitely take the credit.

How much did he do himself, how much was various Archimedians erased from history working at black sites under his direction. We probably will never know.

[humble sierra]

We know he didn't invent the Sentients but probably funded further research into them

[limber oracle]

Ok so now I have another question… (I apologize for the bombardment) is Albrecht the bad guy? I personally don’t think so, a huge ass for sure but not outright evil, and Margullis is she dead DEAD and if so, why does Natah or The Lotus so able to use her likeness if she’s not her to some degree that part confuses me.

I think he may have had some hand in bringing about The Indifference (which, confirmed if I recall correctly) and I don’t believe he likes that.

[misty salmon]

Albrecht is... less bad than some of the Orokin. He made a lot of mistakes, but he does seem to be trying to fix some of them, in a stubborn, cruel and downright manipulative way.

Margulis is very dead. Natah/Lotus is a sentient Mimic, capable of copying other creatures forms and specially trained to impersonate humans, then brainwashed by Ballas into being a replacement for Margulis... Lotus then made exactly the same choice that Margulis did and pissed Ballas off again.

[humble sierra]

Firstly, don't apologize for asking questions, that's what we're here for.

Secondly, Albrecht is a bit more of an "Ends justify the means" guy. He's done many messed up things to try and stop the Man in the Wall-- an issue he had a hand in creating too-- and maybe one day we have to bring him to justice too.

Margulis is dead dead. Natah was a Sentient mimic designed by Ballas with Hunhow to... well, mimic Margulis so that she could control the Tenno and turn them against the Orokin, but she loved us instead and became the Lotus-- turning us against the Sentients, then eventually the Orokin too. At the end of the New War, her mind has been torn apart and forced to be so many different people, she views herself as Margulis/Natah/Lotus all at once, so you ask her to "choose one voice to lead" her.

[limber oracle]

After 1999 … I think maybe Albrecht is trying to make things right in a Roy Mustang kind of way. If that makes sense.

Just like you said, in a more cruel if it comes to that kind of way.

[fierce jay]

I think Albrecht is an egomaniac who was scared straight by his encounter with the Man in the Wall. He seems to be using the same manipulative tactics as most Orokin, but towards more noble ends now. For example, ||at the end of the Hex quest, he is very clearly playing up his role as the "arrogant orokin" to try and push the drifter into using their time loop powers to save the Hex. Despite the fact that he's telling us to let them die, he knows how distrustful the Tenno are of the Orokin. He's using reverse psychology. You can tell that he doesn't actually want us to let them die because he gives the Drifter a clue ("not unless you know them") and then shoots the Drifter, leaving them no other choice but to use their reset powers. He even smiles as he says this.||

[misty salmon]

He also legitimately thinks he's protecting Loid by putting as much distance in between himself (and Wally) and Loid as he can. He has a certain lack of empathy, or supresses it deeply when confronted with what he's decided is the greater good.

[fierce jay]

I think it's more that Orokin grow numb to empathy with all their body-hopping and tyranny, and Albrecht is slowly learning to have it again.

[limber oracle]

Ugh and Loid LOVES him SO much still

[misty salmon]

Loid is huge kicked puppy vibes :(.

[strange plinth]

-# let me hug loid, damn it

[limber oracle]

Definitely giving golden retriever

[fierce jay]

I really do like the nuance of Albrecht as a character. He is really hard to get a read on. I think he's on our side in the long run, but will probably keep stringing us along on a wild goose chase for a while until we get to some point in the timeline where he thinks we'll be the magic bullet.

[proper barn]

i mean at least 3+ of our allies wanna kill him.

which is funny.

[quiet ruin]

I think its fair all things considered LOL

[fierce jay]

Sure, but do we?

[misty salmon]

He's trying to mould us into the perfect Operator for his vessels so we can go all kaiju showdown on Wally. I suspect it's not going to be so easy.

[limber oracle]

I think he thinks he’s not capable of doing what needs doing. And he also doesn’t think the Tenno are ready to do it yet. So we are being trained. He’s our horrible and kind of sadistic Mr. Miyagi

[quiet ruin]

At this point, maybe? But we know he's important and the people who do matter to us need him, so whether or not we wanna kill him doesn't matter so long as we're not acting on it.

I think he's very ok with being seen as the villain if its what works best.

[fierce jay]

Yup. He even says something in his lab lore notes along the lines of "if I must be a demon, let me be an honest one."

He's very much like Arthur in that regard, actually. He thinks that this whole mess with Void tech and the Indifference is all his fault, so he's more than willing to burn himself both literally and figuratively if it means he can save the day.

[limber oracle]

With the small caveat that it might actually all really be his fault lol.

I hope the vessels are finished soon.

[brittle siren]

The Daughter maybe the only good Orokin, she even stop discriminates against Grineer

[brittle siren]

Hm I wonder, which one is better: the Sentient giant human face robot in Old Peace or the Vessels?

[misty salmon]

Grandmother's turned out pretty decently... she's still manipulating things, but they've become things like "keeping the family from imploding" and "placing rent controls on the vents"

The Orokin probably all still got a lot of bad karma built up though, that whole immortality thing they had going for who knows how many generations was pretty evil.

[silk atlas]

She didn't control the rent, she just bought the place outright

[limber oracle]

Wait .. as in the vents in Fortuna?

She’s stuck on Deimos!

[trim kettle]

fun

[brittle siren]

Corpus only care money and Orokin artifact so

[silk atlas]

You say that like communication is at all difficult to do in any sci-fi story.

The impressive part is she did it annonymously

[misty salmon]

She's the landlord, she controls the rent ;) and she's being a lot more reasonable about it than Nef ever was.

[proper barn]

I mean she has a few connections. Also she lives in a literal gold mine.

Like take any entrati Relic and it's probably worth 10 morbillion dollars.

[silk atlas]

Could've helped out Drusus with that fortune

[proper barn]

I don't think she knows Drusus exists.

[brittle siren]

man, not until the end of the year we will have new lore, I hope it would worth the wait

[humble sierra]

The Teacher could have some stuff

Plus the new Warframe

[proper barn]

We have the teacher

Which will have Teshin origin.

[stiff beacon]

hmm we gonna find him in cryopod or like on a beach somewhere

[misty salmon]

Well, since he explicitly says he didn't go into stasis (somehow).... Teshin beach vacation episode! Dog Days map wasn't seeing enough use.

[strange plinth]

figure he'll find us and tell us our equipment is bad
probably complain about the lotus allowing us to be weak, to feed into his yapping about the conclave

[misty salmon]

it'll just be his circuit alchemy lines in a different and even more confusing order.

[sage moat]

teshin didn't go into stasis, my theory is that he used a very common trope regarding martial artists. i think it started with one of the villains in A Journey to the West. the chinese term i believe is something like "Zaijiali Yanggou"? roughly translates to "To have a DAWG in you"

[proper barn]

I think it's gonna be us meeting him in a cave and him going "well I'll help you sure."

@stiff beacon he will mention what happened to his sister daughter wife probably and maybe have a old peace reference.

[strange plinth]

Teshin's Cave part two one

[proper barn]

What is her name?

[stiff beacon]

its probably his gf or wife not the alabama combo you got there

[proper barn]

Valeria?

[stiff beacon]

valeria yes

[strange plinth]

that sounds right

[sage moat]

one letter off from my name

[proper barn]

I saying it could be any of the 3.

[stiff beacon]

use a comma

[proper barn]

But it sounds so funny to call her sisterdaughterwife

[strange plinth]

commas don't really work with that sentence structure either
slashes maybe?
but also sisterdaughterwife is funny

[humble sierra]

Even funnier to read it like the lyric from For Narmer "Brothers, sisters, daughters, sons"

[strange turtle]

Potentially not even erased from history, they could just have worked under him and because of that seen as less important footnotes, or even just not properly acknowledged (like when research is credited to [person] et al)

[strange turtle]

||He also leaves books to help the Drifter understand the slang so they can connect easier||

[cedar cloud]

where's somewhere to watch warframe lore

[pale cedar]

https://youtube.com/@tehaisbagus?si=s7uVgszVAkRRFfBf

[leaden moth]

Crazy theory that just ran in my head. What if Albrecht is trying to ressurect Ureal to be HIS warframe. Like some how he could use transference and permenantly becone Ureal

[stiff beacon]

kinda doubt considering it feels like he dragged uriel from what ever corner of reality he was squatting

in

[fierce jay]

Nope. Check his diary entries again. "So it is that I will not take the Kuva, now or ever again. This is the last skin I'm in."

[lilac aspen]

Albrecht locked in
He will live the rest of his life in this last body

[tall echo]

Albrecht doesn't have the empathy needed to use transference on a frame

[outer gulch]

I think part of what makes Albrecht so interesting is the nature of empathy and the Orokin. If the Orokin are inherently narcissistic, it would be terrifying to discover that the biggest foe you will ever face is made up entirely of a thing you cannot comprehend- emotion/empathy.
Albrecht could be just as narcissistic as the rest, but understands that that's a problem/recognizes the tenno have something he doesn't (Haven't read the journals).
Honestly puts a really interesting spin on "can the orokin be forgiven-" Can the Orokin (Albrecht, mostly) learn the empathy that will be their salvation?

Im generally really excited for Uriel's lore. What does it mean to be the "heretic of Xata?" Is he a heretic that was cast out into the void (xata?) or is it the reverse and he is considered a heretic BY the void? The latter might be interesting as Albrecht might consider him to have somehow escaped the void/wally, Albrecht might see pulling him from exile as a proof of concept to free himself from void influence

[tall echo]

Xata means truth, lohk means void

[outer gulch]

Thank you

Heretic of truth is also fascinating tho, if more obvious. Outcast for speaking against the establishment (could still be either Orokin/void)

[tall echo]

Frames have no association with void beyond it being used to power their abilities, so it'd be speaking against the orokin

[outer gulch]

Unless Uriel is somehow an exception to that rule. That would be the heretical element of his existence. Though demon is consistently a reference to void, so the "devil" aspect could mean a stronger connection to the void

[restive river]

Xaku:

[tall echo]

Xaku wasn't intended that way

[restive river]

I know

They are the voidframe tho

We also ofc have Rev Prime iirc
Dante cause the book
Heck you could say Kullervo cause of where he ends up and the fact he may have some void damage
But none of these frames were made with their connection to the void in mind

[tall echo]

Kullervo was probably affected by his time in duviri considering the one we fight uses the alt helmet

[restive river]

Yeah that’s what I’m alluding to, his helmets having void damage

Also that one helmet that just
Has thrax’s weird helmet design?

[tall echo]

The default helmet

[oblique siren]

Re: Can the Orokin be forgiven

I think that's irrelevant. Can the surviving Orokin work towards becoming better?. That's the more interesting and important question.

They could never be forgiven for what they did, but if those surviving Orokin do the required work to help heal the Origin System and those hurt by Orokin rule, then forgiveness doesn't matter.

[outer gulch]

I do think that's kind of the point- not forgiveness in the literal sense but forgiveness in a potentially broader redemption/healing sense

[silk atlas]

Nah it's usually the former whenever someone brings the idea up and the surviving few show they're scarcely more generous or helping than they were before.

[fierce jay]

"Xata" means "Truth." I think it's more "the heretic who speaks only the truth"

"Lohk" is "Void"

[silk atlas]

The Grineer would at best kidnap them to get gene cloning info even if they didn't know, Corpus might play nice, Sentients on Tau sure wouldn't because only recently did a couple Sentients realize that theyre angry at the wrong people (and they still likely would want any actual Orokin dead)

[fierce jay]

And let's not forget that the state religion of the Orokin empire was to worship the golden lords, or themselves. Being a heretic in that society just means you're sane.

[silk atlas]

Both of them fall down into the same issue anyway. The Orokin hardly seem interested in changing their ways, and (more importantly) the hurt don't want forgiveness.

[oblique siren]

What i mean is
Forgiveness isnt why you should do better in life. If the only reason a person is trying to improve is for forgiveness, then they aren't doing the real work.

Forgiveness is nice, but not important

[silk atlas]

Frankly this is the time sunk-cost isn't a fallacy considering almost everyone wanted Ballas dead anyway, so might as well keep up with the evil scheme stuff.

[silk atlas]

Yeah but knowing you won't be shot, captured and/or tortured at the moment you try to improve yourself for others in this case would be really nice, even if they still hate your guts.

[oblique siren]

Its still falling into the same "i will only put in the effort if there is something for me in it".

Working to fixing your wrongs is a much stronger statement of character if the person doing it is doing it in the face of (rightful or not) anger. Im much more interested in a story that examines and embraces that.

There will always be people who hate Albretch, and the Orokin at large. There will likely always be people who will attack them on sight.

If the character is serious about doing learning and doing better, then they'll keep doing it anyway. Forgiveness isn't important to their character arc.

Forgiveness comes from other characters, and its their choice to give it. It has nothing to do with any of the surviving Orokin and their character arcs.

That's the interesting story. To me, at least.

[fierce jay]

Forgiveness isn't just for the forgiven.

[normal mountain]

Thank you
I keep seeing people expect horrid characters who go through a change of heart to suddenly get everything they want (usually romantic interests)
And I hate it because that's not why you should work to be a better person
You should work to be a better person for the sake of being a better person

[oblique siren]

The idea that forgiveness is rhe goal is also a very Christian/Christian Athiest/Christian culture viewpoint. That both parties are better for forgiveness is also very Christian.

[fierce jay]

Yes?

[oblique siren]

Characters (and people!) can and do go through changes of heart! But that change of heart is better written when it comes from within.

[fierce jay]

The world of warframe clearly had a faith that was Christian-adjacent even if it was very different in the particulars

[oblique siren]

I think its worth mentioning, too, that I think the Operator probably would forgive someone who is trying to be better. But that's a happy side effect.

[fierce jay]

In the end it's actually up to you. You get several chacnes in KIM dialog to express how your Drifter feels about Albrecht in particular.

Personally? I always ran defense for him. Because he has a really cool hat.

[oblique siren]

What i mean is
When people discuss these things in fiction, there's a lot of emphasis put on forgiveness, rather than the actual work being put in.

[fierce jay]

That's simply because it's easier to point to the climax of an arc than the arc itself when discussing fiction.

[oblique siren]

Hell yeah, I love that that is up to us :D

And that is fair. It is a really good hat

Ah, but that's what I was saying before. The climax of the arc may not be forgiveness! That doesn't mean that the arc or character failed however.

[fierce jay]

No, but it is the most common climax of said arc. Even if the answer is "no" that is still "the moment"

[oblique siren]

Forgiveness, if it happens in the story, is often after the climax. Its the downward drop afterwards. What happens before to trigger that, that is often the climax, and often the most compelling part of the story

[tall echo]

You are late

[oblique siren]

XD

Cephalon Scrap from left field!

[fierce jay]

It was a reply to me, I felt like it would be rude to keep scrolling without responding 🙂

[tall echo]

Fair

[oblique siren]

Nano a good peep

(Also my phone tried to correct that to Nanotechnology, so I'm going to assume that is your Legal Name now)

[fierce jay]

https://tenor.com/view/albrecht-entrati-the-man-in-the-wall-warframe-1999-warframe-you-are-late-warframe-jojo-gif-4432154459658682236

I'm curious if we'll see albrecht's more Orokin-ified body at any point. It would probably be odd if he only ever decided to look like a normal man again, as the blue skin/dreadlocks look is probably something he lived with a lot longer and would feel more natural. Although it's worth noting that his portrait shows that he never dipped into the "crab claw" fashion.

[oblique siren]

Oooh that would be really cool. Maybe in a portrait somewhere?

[fierce jay]

This may be the last skin he's in, but he said nothing about modifying it.

[silk atlas]

It sure can be, but the Orokin are very much a "what's in it for me" kinda society so fat chance there's something like that here, sadly

[fierce jay]

People can change. Especially after a traumatic experience. I reckon coming face to face with a malevolent god using your own face is probably something scary enough to break through even the thickest arrogance.

[oblique siren]

The society might be that way, but I'm interested in the individuals

We saw in New War that individuals can defy expectations c:

[fierce jay]

"Take your shot. For Profit."

[silk atlas]

Well when it comes to Orokin specifically, Ballas and Nihil were hard no's, and while Albrecht is trying to help, he mostly uses the fact he's trying to do the right thing as an excuse to act absolutely callous. The only really benevolent Orokin at this point are the Entrati with Grandmother being the one that keeps their heads from falling off.

[glacial bough]

Even the Entartati actions are still based in self-serving their own needs

[silk atlas]

Eh... It was mostly that they were just kinda bickering at each other to do much of anything else since they were stuck surrounded by Infested and protecting Entrati's stuff.

That being said Grandmother did put the heart at risk to make sure that the family did remember the more important stuff so it's pretty wild.

[fierce jay]

We still don't know why he was helping the techrot to spread when he ||convinced the hex to distribute his "cures"||. The big problem we run into with anything that Albrecht did is... did he? Did he really? Or was it... another? There's no way for anyone who isn't tuned into the void in some way to even tell.

[silk atlas]

We know it's him. If that was Wally, we already lost.

[fierce jay]

How so?

[glacial bough]

Albrecht probably wasn't spreading anything, but he won't stop the Hex from having any reason to hate him

[fierce jay]

At least as I read it, at that point he was under the impression that Wally couldn't follow him to the past. That was clearly in error.

[silk atlas]

The fact that Wally's main goal so far is to get Albrecht back for the finger.

To what end, who knows, but we knew Wally wasn't already in 1999 because Wally had to go break in via Rusulka to actually make any headway.

And that Wally getting in was through multiple loops, as Albrecht himself mentions when he wants you to shoot her.

[fierce jay]

It also begs the question of how much time he actually spent in the past. And why he set up his time machines to loop in the first place.

Perhaps the whole thing was bait? He knew that he was the only thing that should be able to change, so he looped while looking to see if something else appeared to make changes as well.

But again, to what end? It seems like wally got the upper hand there, and he needed us to bail him out.

[pale cedar]

He didn’t set up the Time Machine to loop he had Loid break the Time Machine

[glacial bough]

Albrecht set up the loop as a measure to hold back Wally

[fierce jay]

Doesn't matter, my point is that he had a time machine with a looping function in the first place. Loid very clearly indicates this when he set up that our "loop has been expanded"

[glacial bough]

That's thet point of Wally need to piggyback on Rusalka to start affecting the loop

[silk atlas]

Albrecht mentions in WITW that Wally "could not easily follow", so it's sure that he planned around this. Albrecht already got the schematics for the nuclear reactor during his loops to escape Wally when he would need to.

[fierce jay]

It's worth noting that a meltdown in a reactor does not cause a nuclear explosion, as well. He clearly reconfigured the machine to function as a bomb and was using y2k as the trigger.

[silk atlas]

Or just creative liberty since no one bothers remembering what a nuclear meltdown is actually like

[fierce jay]

True but I like to give them the benefit of the doubt. They're pretty good writers overall XD

[silk atlas]

Being a good writer is them realizing that an explosion is cooler and more dramatic than a giant hunk of ultra hot metal seeping into the ground

And also that their audience wouldn't find that as interesting, either, though now I am imagining something that'd look cool with some weird "Void" tunnel burrowing into the ground.

[fierce jay]

I think the question I want answered most right now is... how did anything we do affect Wally? He mentions (through Rusalka) that we drove him away form his "poisoned garden"... but how did we do that? Saving the Hex?

[glacial bough]

Yes

Wally can't stand the power of love

[pine mortar]

but then there's also that short story in isleweaver where he scoffs at the idea

[glacial bough]

Letting the reactor go off was a stopgap, saving the Hex was the nail in the coffin

[normal mountain]

You really gonna trust the word of the Eldrich entity on what will actually affect him?

[pine mortar]

true!

[fierce jay]

You know what. I think I just had a lightbulb go off. Why should saving the Hex in particular have an affect? There are billions of people living and loving in the world at that exact moment. Why did these six have such significance? ||Because of us. And because they were partially warframes. THAT is why he is turning people in protoframes. Becoming a warframe means that they are connected to the void, as that's where warframe abilities generally come from. And Tenno? The Man in the Wall is literally part of us. He has willingly given a piece of himself to us. Perhaps just because he knew we would destroy the Orokin, as he wants vengeance for their "torture" of him with all the void tech. Tenno and partial-warframes feeling, loving, overcoming their numbness... that is like forcibly injecting the "poison to his plan" (as Albrecht put it) into Wally. And let's not forget that the Technocyte Plague is apparently connected across time and timelines too, the way Lizzie and the Helminth talk to us, and the way Kaya discusses the Techrot's response to our timeline shenanigans in ETA. So by making more of the infestation, spreading it in very small doses to the populace of Hollvania, he may be trying to direct small bits of their happiness and love into Wally too.||

Albrecht doesn't want the Orokin to be forgiven, or even himself. ||He wants to teach Wally that forgiveness is even possible.||

[pine mortar]

interesting!

[pale cedar]

Ah, holy Wall of text Batman

[normal mountain]

So, when do you expect us to see a rainbow friendship beam striking the Wall Man into oblivion?

[pine mortar]

qorvex pride display already spoiled that ending 🫡

[fierce jay]

Oh my God, it's all lining up even more in my head. I even see how the Old Peace is connected to the current storyline despite seeming like such a left turn. We aren't the "Chosen Operator" because of some nebulous prophecy or even because Albrecht used his time machines to peek into the future. ||It's because Albrecht knew that of the Tenno oprhans, there was one who was even more capable of deep empathy than others. He chose one Operator out of them all. One who he knew, for certain, could empathize with an entirely different species. The one who was part of the Tauraon academy liason program and partnered with a Sentient child. His computer wasn't trying to find some superhero with a specific set of qualities, his system was trying to identify which of the reawakened Tenno was the one who befriended Aidis.||

[normal mountain]

...sweet Solus, you're right

[pale cedar]

Nothing stated he used his Time Machine to peep into the future

[fierce jay]

Yeah, another reason I don't think that.

[normal mountain]

True
But most assume that because the Time Machine exists, it was used to see or travel to the future
Because that's, like, the expected tropeical use of a Time Machine

[oblique siren]

I love when games are HopePunk instead of GrimDark. <3

[pale cedar]

It’s only known use was going into the past and none of his notes mention future travelling

[fierce jay]

I'm not entirely certain his machines can go into the future. Perhaps just open holes that go back, and allow someone to come forward, such as ||Kaya.||

[normal mountain]

I know

[oblique siren]

The opposite to Indifference is warmth

[fierce jay]

I do wonder if we're really right in even calling it the "Indifference" at all. It certainly seems capable of anger, laughter, pain, longing.

[glacial bough]

It's not literal indifference

[fierce jay]

Definitely when possessing Rusalka is it capable of anger, holy moly. The Isleweaver line read of "IT BELONGS TO ME" goes so hard.

[oblique siren]

I think its part of the image it wishes to Project, but youre right

[normal mountain]

It could do something horrible to you, or not
And doing either wouldn't matter that much to it
That's why it's called the Indifference
the fact that it takes pleasure from either possibility is another issue, but eh

[fierce jay]

Another big question mark is how much the Man in The Wall is representative of the void itself. Is Wally the Void personified? Is he just the most powerful entity made of void-stuff? Why is he seemingly incapable of creating anything without using building blocks of things from our world? Are the giant pillars of sand and stone an exception to this?

Certainly, we can create something out of nothing when in the void. That's CE 101, taught right after phasics class to every child.

[normal mountain]

To the second-to-last question, that's probably because the Void is more or less empty until someone (Albrecht) entered it. And it's rather difficult to make something without some sort of reference

As for the other questions... I don't think we can quite answer those until we learn more about the Wall Man

[fierce jay]

I'm more thinking of the Void Angels. Why does he need to reshape people to make them? We also learn in isleweaver that the Heralds are reshaped people too. Potentially all of the Murmur are just pieces of people he's absorbed.

[glacial bough]

Void Angels just happen, they aren't directly created by Wally

[normal mountain]

Honestly, I think he does it because that way it freaks us out more

[fierce jay]

Then why do the Holdfasts refer to "their master" all the time? Perhaps he has some control over them once assimilated but doesn't do it himself.

[glacial bough]

Yes, things of the Void will default under his control unless otherwise

[fierce jay]

The Thrax enemies definitely seem to be conceptual embodiments rather than pieces of anything else. Like vague memories of orokin era grineer.

Learning just how normal the Grineer were originally also really makes their current state quite tragic.

Side theory/prediction of mine about Old Peace: ||the sepratist lady is one of the two Grineer Queens.||

Maybe ||we'll see the other twin before the end of the quest.||

[glacial bough]

They can't be, we know the general timeline for the Queens

[fierce jay]

Refresh me, then. Weren't they lower-class orokin (because of the twin taboo) who took over the grineer during the fall with a show of force?

I can't seem to find the Kuria lore entries in the codex. Where do we go to see those again? It's been years.

[glacial bough]

The Queen's survived in the Collapse until they ran into the Grineer and they connected through same looks, yes

[fierce jay]

I don't see how that makes it impossible that before the fall ||they were part of a different rebellion. Perhaps once the Grineer rebelled themselves they were willing to follow them.||

I suppose the remaining Queen doens't show any particular hatred of sentients, but then again we never really hear much from her about... well, anything, since the ending of Old Blood.

All speculative for now, at any rate.

[proper barn]

She's a dax

So not possible.

[lean garden]

https://wiki.warframe.com/w/Kuria

[woven coyote]

Think they are in objects instead of fragments

Like you go to scannable objects find the kuria and click it

[hexed oxide]

i never really paid attention to cetus bounty dialogue

konzu said smth about "the grineer commander is in the lotus' watch ? oh he won't be sleeping well tonight"

and i realized i also never really thought about how much people seem to fear the lotus

[proper barn]

I mean the tenno as a faction are super powerful and can get to anyone. Like alad v works with us even though he hates us so bad cuz of how much a favor from the tenno faction is like one of the strongest things in the system

[hexed oxide]

i mean yeah, the tenno are powerful, as individuals and as a group. everyone knows they have godlike powers

but isn't the lotus the logistics and tactician behind the tenno ? or does she have some godly powers i don't know of ? (there is that thing in the new war's ending but i don't really understand what she did there if anything)

[humble sierra]

It's partially the myths behind her too, like how she was powerful enough to hide the moon (even though it was just Orokin technology)

[misty salmon]

I suspect that she's also the face person for the Tenno faction. Those guys in the skinsuits we're always breaking out of faction jails are probably the main contact points a lot of people have with the Tenno, and they represent the Lotus.

One of those representatives shows up, you discuss the problem with that Grineer galleon in the area, you misplace some cargo into their hands, or agree to smuggle something... and shortly afterwards the galleon has a mysterious reactor failure.

[proper barn]

Shes the figure bead but also she does have powers. She's a mimic queen and she holds back Wally like you know. Also Lotus is like seen as the commander to us.

[feral cape]

I mean when you control the god like task force your pretty well regarded

[narrow pendant]

epiphany: albrecht is just gay gman

[oblique siren]

Hes Old Gay Man and I adore it

[silk atlas]

Gman is gay gman what are you on about. What else would the g stand for

[oblique siren]

The way he chuckles when Rusalka!Wally tries to torture-flirt him and says "Not my type", I was just "oh this [censor] GAY gay."

[rich stump]

Gstraight obviously

[sly ibex]

I mean... I'm straight, and I don't think Rusalka's my type lol. Also, we do know Albrecht was with Mother's mom, so there's that.

I think the odds are ten to one that she left him because she was the only one who saw through his bs and was like "nah, I'm out." Doesn't make her abandoning their daughter okay, though... :\

[oblique siren]

Lots of gay men dont learn theyre gay until later in life.

[rich stump]

Consider the following: the Orokin May be homophobic

[oblique siren]

God I hope not

[sly ibex]

They pretty readily accepted what happened with Dagath, so I doubt it.

[rich stump]

True, fair point

[gritty mountain]

this is some crazy warframe lore 😭

[oblique siren]

We're talking about Albretch, so its related! XD

[gritty mountain]

just the first message i see lmao

[oblique siren]

Where can we read about Mother's mom?

[sly ibex]

We only know of her from the backroom lore on Deimos, if I remember correctly.

[oblique siren]

That's the walls around Necraloid?

[sly ibex]

All that we know is she left Albrecht and Mother. Though it could also mean she died somehow, but we don't know for sure what happened to her or who she was.

[sly ibex]

Yeah.

[oblique siren]

I'll have to take another listen; I dont remember it saying much of anything about her

Albretch waxing poetic about the horrors of the Void are what stuck in my brain

[sly ibex]

Oh wait... Maybe it was something with Duviri.

Hm.

I dunno, but I do remember there was a tiny little blurb about "since she left us." lol

[oblique siren]

I will say, if it just says "her mother left us" that doesn't mean anything about Albretch's possible relationship to her. There's lots of non-nuclear family types that involve co-parenting between non-lovers c:

Doesn't have to mean* I should say

[rich stump]

Actually, how important was the concept of having an heir to the Orokin?

[sly ibex]

Probably not very.

They just would put themselves in new bodies, after all.

[rich stump]

Yeah, makes sense. If it was important that could give an explanation tho

[sly ibex]

You don't need an heir when you can carry on with your legacy yourself.

[oblique siren]

-nod nod-

[sly ibex]

Heck, even the concept of "legacy" was probably foreign to the Orokin.

[oblique siren]

Lots of room for headcanons, though, if that's the thing you like to do.

Lack of evidence =/= evidence against it, after all.

There could have been other factors that put social pressures on having children

[mystic lynx]

What does Sol and Lua mean when some of the hex member say it? Does the wf universe (at least by the time of 99) canonically thought Sun and Moon as a God(s)?

[rich stump]

From what we know, more or less

[pale cedar]

Dualism is a religion in Warframe

[lean garden]

I mean, we already have multiple religions and mythos that do just that irl so its not weird

[pale cedar]

This is the Hollvania flag

[narrow pendant]

the orokin are based on the ancient romans, which often developed relationships with servants/slaves while wives/husbands were for social/political reasons and children

[sly ibex]

SKANAAAAAA

[narrow pendant]

fun fact: ancient greeks thought true love is reserved for the same gender

lmao

[oblique siren]

Well, what they thought was love between men was most appropriate between an older man and a teenager, so XD

Not sure ancient Greek society gave any thought at all about what women got up to. Though if Sappho was the norm, then it might have been the same for Greek women; older woman with teenage girl

Back on topic, I didn't realize that the Orokin took inspiration from the ancient Romans; that's cool :D

[misty salmon]

The Skana Duet, an early prototype, discarded after it became obvious that sharing one sword between two people didn't work.

[lime summit]

Just found out about margulis with no eyes from the trailer

What happened there?

[digital grail]

I think it was the tenno

[lime summit]

Looks morbid I hope it’s in the new quest

[normal mountain]

She was blinded by a Tenno
Not sure it's directly confirmed, but there are strong implications that Rell blinded her

[strange plinth]

that frame prolly will be
but margulis was dead by the time of the old peace, as she was executed for trying to prevent the tenno from being weaponized

[narrow pendant]

margulis being blinded is likely the reason lotus' helmet covers her eyes

[restive river]

Meanwhile when she’s mimicking Margulis her eyes are uncovered and when she’s Natah they’re also uncovered

[narrow pendant]

natah likely as a metaphor for it being her true self, and margulis bc its the choice of the tenno for her to appear like her version when she used to be their mother figure

[tall echo]

But natah isn't actually her true self anymore

But it also is

I have never confused myself faster than now

[high bay]

In the canon of Warframe, how many Grineer tuber goobers have been killed by the Tenno as a collective of ~47 million ish registered losers users

[strange plinth]

at least 3
-# /s

[high bay]

Like I’m genuinely surprised Regor can keep up Grineer tuber goober production

[pine mortar]

i imagine the facilities on uranus aren't the only ones, and there are a great deal of older deteriorating clones out there

[high bay]

And the Worm queen must be pulling her “hair” out given a skilled Tenno can create and kill a lich in an alarmingly short time period

[tall echo]

Canonically there are way less tenno

[tall echo]

Regor's facilities were mainly for experiments

[high bay]

Makes sense, most of the people I’ve tried onboarding to Warframe quit after a few sessions because they can’t click with Warframe

[high bay]

So what planet is the main center of Grineer cloning?(grineer almost autocorrected to Grindr 💀)

[tall echo]

Autocorrect be outing you

It's not specified where most grineer are cloned

[high bay]

I’m too paranoid for dating apps lmao

[high bay]

Makes sense, if the Tenno knew, we probably would’ve turned the planet into WH40K’s Krieg

[tall echo]

Probably not since then the corpus would run free

[misty salmon]

Except we're not actually trying to wipe out any of the factions... because ^

[tall echo]

Well autocorrect still relies on most used words

[high bay]

I feel like with each response I’m digging myself deeper so,,,

[tall echo]

I have reasons for turning off autocorrect

[warm nova]

Got a question about ol Umbra lore wise

[humble sierra]

The Orokin swapped genders around pretty freely, I doubt that was a concern. It was more about classism and status.

[lilac aspen]

The two Orokin loving their Dax soldier too

(Dagath)

[humble sierra]

Yep

And that was a taboo/hidden relationship, I think, because Dagath was a mere Dax

[tall echo]

Got an answer about umbra lore

[humble sierra]

Yep, though they could potentially be retconning that to be the player for added oomph. I believe one of Ruswallka's lines in Isleweaver was something like "Taking my eyes, kiddo? Wasn't Margulis enough?"

Which of course could just be referring to the Tenno as a whole, but it would be more of a taunt if it was specifically the player.

[warm nova]

So 1. Was Umbra built before or after Excalibur 2. If the latter is true was Umbra suppoused to be like a better version of Excalibur kind of like a Prime warframe 2.0
3. Why was Umbra chosen for this

"Built" well more like used honestly

[tall echo]

1. After
2. Umbra was made as a punishment
3. See above

[warm nova]

Is there any reason he was chosen to be an alternate Excalibur?

[tall echo]

No lore reason

[warm nova]

A

*ah

[tall echo]

All of this is stated in the quest btw

[warm nova]

It's been like a year since I did it

Think I wanna replay some of the story quests

[humble sierra]

Probably worth replaying as many quests as you can for Old Peace

Even though it is introducing a whole lot of new stuff, a refresher on the game overall would go a long way

[warm nova]

Also at the starting cutscene

Of warframe

Volt Excalibur and Mag were fighting together, and they weren't being inhabited by tenno right? Like it was just them

[tall echo]

They were

[warm nova]

God google ai sucks

[tall echo]

AI sucks

[warm nova]

Thought I could finally get a single piece of lore on them even if it was just them being a trio

I guess not every warframe is supposed to have lore (excluding the protoframes)

[tall echo]

Well they are, but the writers are very busy

[tall echo]

Excal lore is that he's the first frame

[humble sierra]

And Excal Prime is the first Prime

Also the main lore of those three is that one of them is your Warframe

[silk atlas]

Excal Prime's lore doesn't mention Excal Prime being the first Prime, oddly enough

[warm nova]

I would say "good enough" but it's not really good enough, thanks for trying though

[humble sierra]

The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us. The more advanced we became, the greater our losses. The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed.

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.

Ah wait no I see what you mean

[silk atlas]

Yeah, Excalibur, not Excalib- yeah

[humble sierra]

Not outright saying ExcalPrime

[tall echo]

Yeah that's excal's codex entry now

[humble sierra]

Omg since when?

I mean I'm assuming a while now

[tall echo]

At least 4 years

[warm nova]

You know how hard it is to try and gatekeep lore to your beginner warframe friend?

I want it all to hit him like a truck

[tall echo]

As it's been that since I started

[warm nova]

So I try to be as abscure but also helpful as possible to not spoil much

[feral cape]

Fork found in kitchen

[hot flicker]

heuughh is old peace pre zariman incident? :v

[misty salmon]

Nope, the Tenno didn't exist pre-Zariman to be running warframes in Old Peace.

[oblique siren]

So i got into warframe being aware that there was going to be a Human character you were actually playing as

The fact we are a child still hit me like a truck

[strange plinth]

old peace is roughly in the middle of the old war
zariman incident has to have already happened, like shiraxis said

[oblique siren]

So if you've got friends who are interested but need more info, its definitely possible to present info in a way that will still have that impact c:

[hot flicker]

Hmmmm, so potentially we could see the fall of the orokin empire :v And because its still orokin era maybe khora protoframe :v

[lean garden]

old peace is still a long way from the end of the old war

[hot flicker]

But about khora proto heugh, I want :v

[strange plinth]

proto batches take a while to fully transform the subject, it seems, regular batches probably don't
(albrecht likely modified the batches to give the protos more time)

[hot flicker]

But wisp and harrow couldn't possibly be time travelling albrecht's work right?

[misty salmon]

No idea how they're going to work more protos into the story, for now they seem to be an Albrecht special, and mostly confined to 1999.

[strange plinth]

we have no idea where the 3 new protos are
they have the entrati labs in the background, but that isn't necessarily hard evidence that they'll be outside of 1999
could just be for the showcase, yk

[misty salmon]

We know that two of the new Proto's are followers of the dualist religion that was present in 1999, which I think went out of favour in or before the Orokin Empire.

[foggy knoll]

The Orokin threw out Dualism because they started to see themselves as the gods.

"The vain faith" as Ballas called it

[hot flicker]

Hmmmm

Come to think of it, there weren't a lot of orokin related stuff in 1999 aside from whatever albrecht touched and the techrot

[strange plinth]

techrot isn't really orokin related?

[foggy knoll]

Makes sense. The Orokin can't have existed yet, at least definitely not in a form we'd recognize.

[hot flicker]

Wasn't the techrot created to counter the sentients after the orokin lost control over them?

[strange plinth]

it was utilized against the sentients, but it existed long before the orokin

[hot flicker]

I see hmmmm

[humble sierra]

Yes, the origins of the Techrot/infestation are still unknown

[foggy knoll]

For all we know it could be a bootstrap paradox where Albrecht bringing the Techrot to Hollvania is the origin.

[glacial bough]

It's not

[humble sierra]

It's likely just a result of human scientists experimenting and not thinking of the consequences

[glacial bough]

We know that specifically

[humble sierra]

1999 was already a plague year, the infestation existed at least a few years before that

[hot flicker]

Or maybe we shouldn't force 1999 lore into the main timeline because its a different timeline? Euugghh all these time travel stuff overheating my bren

[humble sierra]

And Albrecht didn't bring it in himself. He might've expedited it a little by causing more outbreaks, but the only thing he brought back earlier was the Helminth

[humble sierra]

1999 is the real timeline of Warframe

[foggy knoll]

Wait, so the Techrot "predates" Albrecht time traveling?

[strange plinth]

it is the main timeline, the coda travel to present day the long way

[foggy knoll]

As does Temple/Flare

[humble sierra]

Yep, he just brought back some Helminth serum and potentially messed around with the Techrot that was already there

[foggy knoll]

Huh
Then ig Neci calling him "the father of the techrot" during the Hex quest was just Scaldra propaganda.
Which honestly tracks.

[hot flicker]

hisss, now I can't wait for the update, I need to know :v

[humble sierra]

Yep, that was propaganda

Albrecht was already a bit of a mythological figure to the public as Doktor Friday

So Ruswallka utilized that and turned him into a bogeyman

[misty salmon]

Wasn't totally inaccurate, based on some of those Hex conversations about how his "cures" worked.

[stiff beacon]

and currently the best origin for the techrot is considering its origin in dark sector canon but darksector itself non canon

[restive river]

It’s not though

[spice wedge]

o.o so man in the wall is continuing even in the old peace is it.

[lean garden]

No idea

We havent seen wally at all in the Old Peace

[spice wedge]

And on zariman ship, on that map there is even that spider and above it, like some small capsule.

On defense missions.

Where you go A and B

[lean garden]

I mean, thats irrelevant when talking about the Old Peace

the only thing of relevance from the Zariman in the Old Peace is you

[spice wedge]

The Tenno

[lean garden]

Correct, you

[wraith elbow]

Does angels of the zariman happen before or during the hex?

[pale cedar]

Before

[wraith elbow]

Yeah that makes sense

[sweet wadi]

"The worst she can say is no"

Norah: Proceeds to tell the entire Sol system about that time you proposed to her. Over and over again. Calls you lonely to boot.

[narrow pendant]

the only reference to them in 1999 is rusalka having a big arm prothesis mirroring their artificially lenghened right arm

[narrow pendant]

there are no alternate timelines beside the one where the only difference was the operator not accepting the deal, thus becoming the drifter but due to the paradox & eternalism both exist at once

and i hope it stays that way, all alternate timelines do to a story is make the preexisting one less significant (cough marvel cough cough)

[silk atlas]

Minor correction, we've known Drifter accepted a deal since Duviri with the tablets. Wally just happened to budge the details around so Drifter wasn't saved ("I saved them. All of them. Never said I would save you")

[tall echo]

There are alternate timelines for every choice made but they're not accessible. Also what sealskin said

[silk atlas]

And there are other timelines, but they're just not important.

Nor are easily accessible

[narrow pendant]

yeye

im just getting frustrated when people think established things are other timelines when it perfectly fits our timeline

like with old peace

[pale cedar]

I just hate people who try using Eternalism to solve things they know won’t happen without it

[lilac aspen]

“Eternalism.”

https://tenor.com/view/alien-guy-thats-crazy-woozy-crazy-scientist-gif-18248326040104658804

[trim kettle]

so whats the deal with teshin

[pale cedar]

Can you help narrow your question down a bit? What instance are you referring to?

[tall echo]

Based drift king fan
Teshin is basically a mentor character

[woven coyote]

To be expanded in the fall update

[trim kettle]

sorry, like whats with teshin post new war

ik ||hes in duviri but whats with the gray teshin ghost||

[pale cedar]

Teshin isn’t around so there’s a hologram

To the Origin System Teshin is dead

To people of Duviri he is apart of the story

[misty salmon]

The Origin system tried to find one person who was interested enough in Conclave to take over for him...

[foggy knoll]

And the one where Eleanor is a nun

[normal mountain]

Operator accepted the deal
Wall Man just played a game of loopholes and decided not to save them with the other children

That's why that particular one CE'd Duviri and became the Drifter

[sweet wadi]

I thought the idea was that Drifter was the sole version across the timelines that made the deal?

[silk atlas]

It's not, they both made the deal. That's why Operator has their void stuff

[strange plinth]

operator and drifter made the deal, their deals were just.. different via semantics
operator got the inclusive "all of them," drifter got the exclusive "all of them"
operator got saved with the other tenno children, drifter was left behind

[sweet wadi]

Ah. I thought it was that drifter made the first deal, with ‘all of them’ including every other iteration across the timelines except them.

[strange plinth]

reasonable interpretation
we do see what's assumed to be other timelines being culled right after the deal, though
several versions of the operator dying, just two remain standing, becoming the operator and drifter
or it was a representation of how many times the operator lived through that sequence while "trapped in their own history"

[oblique siren]

Yonta on the Zariman says something like "somewhere out there is a version of me who never left Lua", and my understanding is that all the players are also reflections of Eternalism. Every Operator and Drifter are the Main Operator and Drifter.

I think Eternalism is a little different from multiple timelines, but neither means that our Alpha Timeline (if you understood that reference I'm sorry) isn't important. It's the one we're in and can effect the most. Outside of some pretty extreme circumstances, the Others exist mainly as thought exercises.

At least that is my understanding. I know I dont have all the lore yet, and I could very well be misunderstanding lol

[tall echo]

No the players are just other tenno

[oblique siren]

Oh-- I double check where my friend found that info then. XD

Out of curiosity, what's the canon in universe explanation for the other Drifters you see? If there is one

[strange plinth]

there isn't afaik
gameplay/lore split
because there should be only one drifter, period

[oblique siren]

Aww. I like when games try to have fun with that kind of thing. Ah well!

[cosmic badge]

I dont know about canon but I like the idea that the other drifters are just the older tenno aboard the zariman who weren't old enough to go mad but not young enough to be considered a child

[trim kettle]

who is ||the smiling one?||

[stiff beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/albrecht-entrati-the-man-in-the-wall-warframe-1999-warframe-you-are-late-warframe-jojo-gif-4432154459658682236

[trim kettle]

i thought so but its interesting that wally can just be present like that

and the infested (helminth specifically) wants to fill/oppose the void

[tall echo]

The infestation in general is afraid of the void

[stiff beacon]

which is hilarious given its hivemind works as if it looks at the timeline like mural

[sweet wadi]

The infestation wants to Be. The void Isn't.

One is growth and change without end, the other is endless emptiness. Both horrifying, but for oposite reasons.

Actually, there's no evidence that the Indiference has made anything, is there? It's just... copied and possesed people and fragments.

[strange plinth]

closest thing is the murmur

but even then, they're pieces of wally, and seem to be modelled after human parts

[sweet wadi]

Even they seem peicemeal, like they're shaped out of chunks of something that's broken, yeah.

The 'architecture' of The Wall seems very human. I have had the private theory that it's a shape given by some other timeline that developed void worship as a dominant religion.

The murmur strikes me as bits of a cathedral or temple come to life.

Which is pure speculation obviously. But voidtongue had to come from somewhere.

.... what if this is a Q situation and it turns out wally is just a kid playing with ants?

[brittle siren]

"oh no, the Sentient is a good guy? This definitely an alternate timeline, no shot that this is real"

[dense herald]

I unlocked the lore within is that midpoint for the main story?

and how good is that quest?

I like the second dream a lot....except the lack of free customization options for our ||operator||

[strange plinth]

war within?
its kinda the middle of the first proper narrative arc

[brazen seal]

The lore within

[dense herald]

is it a major lore dump? the second dream was good but it felt short content wise

[strange plinth]

it dives into a bit more of your operator's backstory

its also the first quest that can lock you into something iirc?

[dense herald]

?

lock me into something how?

[strange plinth]

there's a section of the quest that'll lock you into it
so you can't do any other missions or activities in-game
it has a special pop-up that warns you about it

[dense herald]

is it a long segment? and can I leave it at points without starting it over?

[strange plinth]

not super long. not sure where the checkpoints are, but i believe there are checkpoints in it, yeah

[fleet furnace]

war within and new war are the only quests iirc that have lockout segments, TWW being in the last section of the quest, and TNW being the whole thing

[humble sierra]

Jade Shadows too, but that's a fairly small length quest

[kind mango]

how much of the lore do you think was purposefully put into the game and how much do you guys think we created ourselves and that the devs just rolled with it as "part of their plan"

[lean garden]

well given things like the Old Peace, 1999, etc etc, its mostly the Devs

the only thing that comes to mind as player directed are super minor things like Popcorn the moa

[strange plinth]

Clem as well
well, made canon, Clem wasn't really an existing character prior

[woven coyote]

And john prodman

[humble sierra]

Funny enough, the 1999 somachord "album cover" doesn't seem to read anything related to music.

Zehvihla soopehr bayekehs

Zevila Super Bikes

[strange plinth]

odd
tbf if there was anything from the 1999 update i'd call lazy, its those 'album covers'

[glacial timber]

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT. how do we know that (the herald thing)? Did I miss something?!

[strange plinth]

during the last fight of isleweaver

[glacial timber]

hit them with the ‘pregnancy minigame’

[oblique siren]

Given that DE is a company, there's probably not too much of the latter. Similar to how traditionally published authors will avoid fanfiction to avoid possible copyright issues and lawsuits.

That said, I can totally imagine certain things being left open ended on purpose, but not for the majority of the story.

Also, I'm choosing to believe that the reason we can't swear in the server is because Ordis himself has forbade it xD

[eager dragon]

good bot

[true bobcat]

Ordis is pleased to help the Operator!

[oblique siren]

Omg hi Ordis.

[pale cedar]

Ordis only replies to good bot

[eager dragon]

I wish there were more interactions with the bot

[oblique siren]

I remember telling some friends "I think Ordis should be allowed to say the F word", only to be told "there's a canon reason he can't."

I spent so much time thinking there was some line of coding in his being or some traumatic reason he cannot express himself that way

But naw, its cause We Child. XD its so cute

[pale cedar]

There isn’t a canon reason why he can’t but DE just don’t like swearing

[oblique siren]

I hope Ordis know he's loved and appreciated. Hes my little guy!!!!

We can pet our Pet, but what if I want to fist bump Ordis?!

[eager dragon]

I want to install Ordis into a Necramech

Give me an Ordismech you cowards

[merry hawk]

rap, tap, tap. Hey kiddo
I’m back, Albricht told me what’s been happening… I’m still lost… who’s “The Major”?

[pale cedar]

You can’t install him into a Necramech because there’s no body to install into it

[pale cedar]

The lady from 1999

[merry hawk]

When you defeat her, does the man in the wall… corrupt her… is that how she gets to duviri?

[modern steppe]

she was already being corrupted/influenced by Wally at that point

if it wasn't evident enough from her being used during the interrogation scene and her recognizing you

[merry hawk]

I forgot about the interrogation scene…

[pale cedar]

She says Kiddo near the start of 1999

[merry hawk]

She does?

[pale cedar]

Plus the ARG before 1999

[merry hawk]

Didn’t know about any ARG…

[eager dragon]

He can be in many places at once, can he not remotely control a necramech?

[modern steppe]

not necessary to know but the quest makes it clear that Neci is influenced by Wally

[pale cedar]

No, because he hasn’t got transference or transference tech

[eager dragon]

Necramechs were developed before Warframe I believe, and those were made before Tenno Transference was on the table.

I somehow doubt they can work only with Transference

[pale cedar]

We use transference on it is what I’m saying which Ordis doesn’t have

[eager dragon]

Right but we also know that they can work without it (e.g. activate Mechs on Deimos)

[eager dragon]

Why not ask Grandmother

She know how to remotely control them, atleast

[pale cedar]

Plus Ordis has never been shown to be able to remote control anything unrelated to the Orbiter

[eager dragon]

Surely we could adapt that for Ordis

[modern steppe]

should also note that there's nothing much to suggest Warframe had void transference tech either, as the only mention of a Transference Bolt is with Umbra and it's importance for such a process is nebulous

[pale cedar]

Transference tech was made see Silvana

[eager dragon]

But was it ever stated that he could not remotely control anything unrelated to the Orbiter?

[modern steppe]

by that I mean, it could also be argued that Warframe didn't have transference tech in the first place

[tall echo]

Plug an external hard drive with him on it into a mech
Also, drone body is independent from the orbiter

[eager dragon]

I also think that Continuity is a type of Transference to be honest, but I don't remember if there was anything mentioned regarding that. (Just headcanon)

[tall echo]

They did

[modern steppe]

it's not

[pale cedar]

It was said Umbra had a special bolt not that other frames didn’t have a bolt

[tall echo]

Ordis says umbra's transference bolt is different from those of other frames

[modern steppe]

it doesn't say much besides he has a different bolt

it doesn't say if it was integrated in the first place or not

nor is it elaborated upon in its importance besides basic assumptions that we can make on what it can do

[tall echo]

Which is. Enough to assume the others have bolts too

[tall echo]

It makes transference easier

[eager dragon]

To be honest I'm assuming it's either not necessary for the Tenno or it was there from the first designs, 'cause Rhino.

[tall echo]

Both

[pale cedar]

Ordis says we have never linked with that bolt implying we have linked with other bolts before

[tall echo]

Transference bolts and somatics exist mainly to make transference easier for normal people

[pale cedar]

We do have it innately but Margulis nerfed us

[oblique siren]

Ordis deserves a big body if he wants one.

Give him a gun!!!!

[tall echo]

Which he seemingly doesn't

[pale cedar]

Ordis is content with being how he is now

[oblique siren]

Yall must be fun at parties.

XD

[tall echo]

He wants to fight alongside the operator, but he doesn't want a big body

[pale cedar]

Ordis doesn’t want to be Ordan again

[tall echo]

I hate parties

[oblique siren]

Ooh that's lore I dont know. Exciting, I'll have to.look for it

[tall echo]

I'm introverted and can't deal with loud noise

[oblique siren]

Anyway, I just wanted to be silly. Ordis is really one of my favourites, and I want to be able to give him a hug or something.

[tall echo]

Well the drone body exists

[pale cedar]

Parvos tried offering Ordis to be Ordan again (he was probably lying) and Ordis after thinking shut him down on the offer

[tall echo]

There's also the fact that ordis throws out any memories of ordan that resurface

[pale cedar]

He says half of an Ordan comment before reverting back

[lean garden]

my take is that its because of things like that rhino that resulted in the successive generation to have transference bolts

because the word "bolt" calls to mind the scifi trope of the restraining bolt

which you can guess by its name its purpose

[lime moon]

Was the void leaking into the zariman in void cascade?

[tall echo]

It's always leaking into the zariman technically, but more during cascade

[violet storm]

Thanks to being stuck in the space between the Albrecht membrane and solid space(anywhere not the void) the Zariman experiences a lot of void anomalies, I.e the Thrax, Angels, Void Floods and Cascades.

[pale cedar]

"Before you ask, no, we can't move the ship. Something I wasn't sure existed has burst through the Albrecht Membrane, and right now the Zariman is plugging that hole. Pop her out, and we'd see Void Storms from here to Mercury. Which would be fascinating, if memorably horrible. Anyway. Feel free to bring me anything you think I might be interested in. That's all!"

[tall echo]

Not between membrane and realspace, between void and realspace, plugging a hole in the membrane

[lilac aspen]

Okay but what if we take another large ship
And push it in front of the hole then

[pale cedar]

Would still cause the issue

[hasty coral]

The void would have to become far more stable. And even with that uh it’s nearly impossible to plug it before anything “bad” happens so there’s that

[misty salmon]

Is there even a comparatively large ship? Maybe Praghassa if she wouldn't dissolve from the void exposure.

[pale cedar]

She would eventually

Void is enough to kill a Sentient

[distant lagoon]

Praghasa is destroyed

[pale cedar]

Since we haven’t seen Zariman 1-9 the only other one that could even come close is Railjack

All Sentients trying it would eventually die

[plain dagger]

I feel like the mods we use in game are fragments of a cephalon somehow I dont know why it just makes sense. Like your bullets aren't serrated the are infused with the concept of serration via void

[pale cedar]

“You are either extremely lucky or a thieving wench. You probably don't even appreciate what you have now. My life. My soul. My art. You will need to prove yourself before I reveal the beauty within this work.”

CEPHALON SAMODEUS, TALKING ABOUT RIVEN MODS IN HIS TEASER SITE

[plain dagger]

Oh my god

Im on to something

[pale cedar]

We were going to get more lore on him but it wasn’t finished so it was scrapped

[plain dagger]

I have an idea

[normal mountain]

Prediction time
What if Samodeus is The Teacher?

[plain dagger]

What if. The reason most cephalons are dead is due to somehow them being turned into mods? Or fragmented into them?

Like peices of a puzzle

[distant lagoon]

Half the point of the quest is to properly introduce Teshin as a mentor, my man

[plain dagger]

Never to be made whole again?

[pale cedar]

Isn’t the teacher about Teshin teaching though?

[normal mountain]

Yes
But I distinctly recall there being another person involved in the quest

[plain dagger]

Yes now that im thinking about it

[pale cedar]

Nothing said most Cephalons are dead

[plain dagger]

Well

Essentially dead probably

[pale cedar]

They’re literally referred to as data immortals

[plain dagger]

There at some point like everything orokin

Had to have been mass produced

Not saying enmasse

Just saying you can be alive and fragmented

More of like a watering down

Forced into shards of yourself and lessened

[pale cedar]

The issue with Cephalons is finding a viable one for a job, not a limited amount of Cephalons

[plain dagger]

Well.. see now

Cephalons are weird

I feel either the mods are just void magic or orokin devilry

[distant lagoon]

The quest was outsourced to Sumo if that's what you mean. Otherwise there's been no mention of any other characters.

[silk atlas]

Cephalons being weird doesn't mean we don't know how they're operating on the basic level

[plain dagger]

Maybe that was part of the deal with the man in the wall who knows

[pale cedar]

It isn’t

[plain dagger]

Never truly know

[pale cedar]

We do though

Wally has nothing to do with mod creation

[plain dagger]

Hm

[silk atlas]

Nor Cephalons

[plain dagger]

Considering you can fuse them together

And make new ones

Its probably just like either void magic or something orokin in origin sadly

[pale cedar]

You don’t need Wally to create a Mod or have them work they were a thing before Wally was being Wally

[normal mountain]

That's not what I meant

[plain dagger]

It would just be so cool

If it were more than just a feature but an essential story aspect

[distant lagoon]

Then you heard things

[plain dagger]

Kinda if you think about it makes sense for ancient chaos god

[plain dagger]

We will find out with this quest hopefully

[normal mountain]

Was phrased oddly, and it's possible I read too much into it

But still

[distant lagoon]

No other characters mentioned there so you're hallucinating as well

Maybe lay off the drugs

[plain dagger]

Damn dude chill out

[plain dagger]

It literally has teshin on the cover though-

[normal mountain]

The Teacher
Is the name of the quest, yes
But is also a title
I had interpreted it as the title to another character
(Because it says that Teshin only assists, not does the whole teaching)

I'm not a complete idiot, you know

[distant lagoon]

Yes, they're talking about someone besides Teshin though.

[plain dagger]

Well probably tbh

[distant lagoon]

I don't actually 🤷‍♂️

[normal mountain]

Then you can go away
Goodbye

[plain dagger]

You are quite the rude one aren't you zedar

That's no way to treat fellow tenno 💔

[pale cedar]

Nothing suggested a person other than Teshin and I highly doubt the teacher is Samodeus considering he hasn’t been touched upon in the lore since the lore they scrapped

[plain dagger]

My next theory is that tau is very populated and people are just lying to hide the truth

[tall echo]

It likely is now

[plain dagger]

Well

[pale cedar]

Who was calling it not very populated?

[normal mountain]

I thought it was a plausible theory
And I think it would have been nice to see something of him

[plain dagger]

I think. They said somewhere it wasn't

Or atleast maybe abandoned

[lilac aspen]

The Teacher is the name of the quest

[plain dagger]

They were trying to GET to tau

[normal mountain]

I am aware

[lilac aspen]

Teshin is the one teaching you

[normal mountain]

There is precedence
Natah was the name of the quest too

[pale cedar]

Teacher isn’t even the name of the quest DE haven’t gave it an actual name yet

[normal mountain]

It was a theory

[tall echo]

It wasn't populated. Then the sentients got there. Now it is populated

[plain dagger]

Well see

We dont even know anymore truly hell there could be ACTUAL aliens there lol im hoping

[tall echo]

Precedence of one quest, while teshin is generally treated as a teacher/mentor character

[distant lagoon]

So far there are no aliens in warframe

[plain dagger]

Surprising

[bright temple]

a GAME theory?

[normal mountain]

.

[plain dagger]

Isn't it

[distant lagoon]

Which is extra funny now that soulframe has them

[normal mountain]

Well, kinda
A theory about a game

[tall echo]

No

[plain dagger]

Sad.. maybe just like..the man in the wall is the only alien we need if he even is

[pale cedar]

He’s not an alien

[plain dagger]

I mean..

You might aswell consider him one..

[pale cedar]

He was created by a human

[distant lagoon]

Wally is extradimensional, not a being from another planet

And yeah good chance he's man-made

[tall echo]

Well by definition wally is an alien

[plain dagger]

Well damn im impressed by the constructs of absolute despair and doom we bring ourselves in warframe but seriously wally is an alien

[tall echo]

But not by the commonly used meaning

[plain dagger]

He might be from human hands

[distant lagoon]

He is alien, but not an alien

[plain dagger]

But he is NOT human anymore

[distant lagoon]

If that makes sense

[plain dagger]

I know i know

He's like from earth but he's still out of this world in a sense

[pale cedar]

He’s not from Earth

[plain dagger]

GUH!?

Wrong again me

Where's he from

[pale cedar]

Wally was made by Albrecht who went through a Void portal on Deimos

“The first Scholar looked into the Void and he feared it and his fear took shape! Do you understand that’s how all this started”

[dense herald]

does this matter?

[normal mountain]

Depends
Do you care who kills the Elder Queen?

[dense herald]

nope, does it matter?

[normal mountain]

Only matters in that it affects your alignment
Which has no effect on gameplay

And also lore, somewhat
But she dies anyways

[dense herald]

what does alignment do?

[distant lagoon]

Nothing except sometimes sets a character's name

Otherwise it's just personal flavor

[oblique siren]

It's your story to tell c:

[dense herald]

well I let teshin kill her

it was either that or I do it, but I felt badass so I let him do it to not dirty my hands lore wise

[normal mountain]

There's only two choices that I believe really matter
Glast Gambit (because two of the options just don't sit right with me)
And The New War, which has an actual lasting effect

But in actuality, aside from the New War, it's pretty much your playground as far as alignment goes

[silk atlas]

I presume you also let the girl decide what to do in the end of Glast

[pale cedar]

I never understand why Warframe players struggle with choice

[low jungle]

I let teshin kill her. Didnt care much

[dense herald]

same

[low jungle]

Your choice tho

Ah good u let teshin do it

[dense herald]

because I don't want to get a bad end because of a choice I made 50 hours earlier with no idication it was important

[low jungle]

Choices of our actions might have consequences.

[dense herald]

I had games that did that to me, made a seemingly simple choice only to see a bad end way down the line

[pale cedar]

DE should add a small message on it saying it is purely visual

Because outside of a single later quest it doesn’t ever really matter

[silk atlas]

It doesn't matter because they know people are gonna get in a tissy if there's any locked content in this style of game

It's a live service almost-MMO game. There were talks when the Alignment system was made that you could replace quests to change your alignment and that would determine what Operator abilities you would get but they thought that would cheapen the choices you make in there (good call)

[misty salmon]

I find this a fascinating side effect of dialogue choice in games. That we're designing for a variety of character behaviours and player agency in their story, but the effect is that we're training people to be unable to actually make choices without first knowing all the possible future consequences.

[normal mountain]

Yes
Yes I did

[silk atlas]

The problem is that dialogue options aren't human so the consequences of making a choice can be blown wildly out of proportion in either way (that they matter way too much or don't matter at all) because God (the devs) said so

[idle tundra]

someone at local makerspace: "i couldn't ever get Warframe, the designs are just too... organic for me"

no he does not know about the Sacrifice

[lunar island]

Someday, maybe

[ashen pulsar]

But can’t u change lotus later anyways

If that’s what ur talking about

[normal mountain]

The skin, yes
The name, no

[ashen pulsar]

Oh

Okay

[sly ibex]

In fairness, it isn't even alignment. It's more just a tracker of "how do you handle situations?"

[oblique siren]

Ya, it's not a "Good vs Evil" or "Law vs Chaotic". But it's still really neato; I love having a say in how my character reacts c:

[old dome]

idk if this counts but do we know which faction is the one w the guy saying "YOU. UH HUH. UHHH PASSAGE VISA. UH HUH. NEXT! (heavy breathing) how much more will this take?" on the orbiter radio?

[lean garden]

grineer

[old dome]

huh interesting... so most of the transmissions on the orbiter radio are grineer??

[modern steppe]

pretty much

most of Nightwave's story focused content was on Wolf of Saturn Six (Grineer) and Zealoid Prelate (infested)

oh and Glassmaker (Nihil)

those lines are probably just leftovers from that time, and if not then it's probably added as a reminder or a nod to the Wolf of Saturn Six saga

[woven coyote]

They are actually older

Waaaaaaay older

[modern steppe]

fair, would serve as hints for that story

[woven coyote]

The radio thing only got moved into the nightwave console like maybe after nihil

But is a very old feature predating nightwave itself

[modern steppe]

I see

[plain dagger]

I feel like the man in the wall is going to soon become a very very major major major threat worse than the indifference

And he is going to whoops us and destroy us so bad that it will look worse than the narmers take over

Considering he's a god

[strange plinth]

man in the wall is the indifference, though?

[plain dagger]

And could easily do such it would only now take something to make him mad

Its kinda strange really the indifference

Is sorta like..a vessel

Notice how it is only hands and feet ? That's because the man in the wall IN MY THEORY is actually just an ancient giant fragment compounded over and over again to become something larger and thus gaining impossible strength

Residing outside of reality he could very well just not be human

Or even if he once WAS he is NO longer

[digital grail]

He isnt human hes the indifference

[plain dagger]

Well

Its strange because he kinda is isnt is isnt

Its a constant

He is everywhere at all times

He IS omnipotent

[strange plinth]

except he isn't
or he'd already have his finger back

[plain dagger]

Oh my god

Your right the void drives

How the hell did they even get those

Was it a deal?

[strange plinth]

unknown, we just know the fingers in the railjack and the zariman's drive are copies, not the "originals"

[plain dagger]

Okay.. so the original must be .. scary

If a COPY can do that

Holy

[restive river]

Wally isn’t a god
He is the indifference
He has many many names

[strange plinth]

the missing finger arguably prevents the man in the wall from being a god. he's stuck in the wall, and bound to actual events
has to use strands of khra to actually do things

[plain dagger]

So the real question is

Can he be killed?

[lean garden]

omnipotent, yet loses to old man yaoi, so much for the omni in omnipotent

[plain dagger]

He is very shy ok

[restive river]

Well it doesn’t seem like he can bleed so far

[plain dagger]

Leave wally alone he hasnt come out yet

[lean garden]

probably, needs DE to go down a very psychoanalytical path when it comes to writing

[plain dagger]

I think it's very easy actually

[restive river]

I kinda doubt they’ll just kill Wally

[plain dagger]

The entirety of the systems uniting has the power in theory to drive him away for good imo

If two people uniting under love did that

Then

[restive river]

That cut the stand of khra

He gets his finger back and it may not matter how many come together

[plain dagger]

The lotus is doomed aswell I think she is

She has taken the torch from the tenno from rell

[restive river]

I doubt they since they let us customize her :p

[restive river]

She has not taken it from us

[plain dagger]

I think she has i am okay to be proven otherwise not being mean sorry if I came off that way

[restive river]

From my understanding she is distracting it so we can prepare against it

[plain dagger]

At the cost of prematurely taking the torch

[restive river]

Drifter learns to live
Operator will get something too

[plain dagger]

You see how she is talking right

[restive river]

We’re still actively fighting him-

[plain dagger]

She was actively fighting herself to not let the indifference take her

[restive river]

Like bro invaded Duviri

[plain dagger]

When we spoke to her

[strange turtle]

His finger got cut off when the void portal was closed on it, snd copies were used for Reliquaries

[plain dagger]

Okay that's scary

[restive river]

Go listen to the requiem logs

[plain dagger]

So how did we even know or was it by accident

[restive river]

Accident

[plain dagger]

Oh I remember now

Entrati

[restive river]

It was Albrecht
He fell into the void

[plain dagger]

God damn it entrati

[restive river]

Saw another him
Got scared
Ran

[restive river]

It wasn’t really on purpose tbf

[plain dagger]

Well yeah

[restive river]

And he has dedicated his life to stop it

[plain dagger]

But leave it up to the old man scientist to unleash a chaos God- or higher being by accident

[restive river]

Ofc at all costs which uh. Is not great for anyone around him

[plain dagger]

Poor man he's good too

[restive river]

I don’t think Wally is a god

[plain dagger]

I love entrati

[restive river]

The only ones to call him that don’t really know what he is

[plain dagger]

Well in cannon the reason we can cross play

Is because of him.

[restive river]

And?

[plain dagger]

The void trader talked to him and asked for more people

[restive river]

That doesn’t make him a god.

[plain dagger]

It essentially makes him god- like

[lean garden]

Hey man I can wave my hands and do some cheeky magic, but god it aint make me

[strange plinth]

he's powerful, but not god-powerful

[restive river]

It makes him powerful

[plain dagger]

Like maybe not a duper super god