lore-discussion

[shell spear]

its like the Tenno

[somber lodge]

Yes, but tenno are called devils plural

And is protea autonomous or piloted? Because I think it might not be referring to her pilot if she's an autonomous model

[reef citrus]

then the zariman jump failed and years later the orokin tried again with the sentients

[swift sentinel]

Again, that's not the way DE are writing it.

[lean garden]

ironically the colony ship was intended to arrive before the sentients

[strange turtle]

New lore is that it was made because some Orokin got impatient with the Sentients and wanted a quicker way

Revealed in the interview I mentioned earlier

[reef citrus]

where can i find that interview?

[strange turtle]

I tried posting it but it got automodded

https:// www.cgmagonline.com/interviews/tennocon-warframe-narrative-team/

[reef citrus]

dm me the link pls

[somber lodge]

I'm thinking Parvos might be connected to Uriel because of the wording of that line

[strange turtle]

Adrian Bott: Oh, boy. I think lore-wise, you’d need at least a basic grounding in the ideas of The Old War era, the idea that there were multiple attempts to get to Tau from the Orokin side of things. So the Sentients set out to build the bridge, the solar rail between Earth and Tau. It took a long-ass time. Various other factions within the Orokin were impatient. So the Zahriman project was another attempt to get to Tau, which is different. But the Zahriman, as we know, never got there.

[reef citrus]

I probably misinterpreted it a bit, but to me it seems like they only mention ideas about the Orokin's attempts to go to Tau

the order of events doesn't seem very clear to me

[lean garden]

The " It took a long-ass time. Various other factions within the Orokin were impatient." makes it sound like the Zariman Project was concieved in response to the Sentients taking a long time

which again, still maintains the original idea that the Zariman was not supposed to arrive at a Tau prepared by the Sentients, but rather it was supposed to beat Tau there

[reef citrus]

what made think that the zariman came first was the parallax landing craft description

"The Parallax was designed for Zariman interplanetary research. It can deploy the advanced Orokin Eye air support, which would have allowed colonizers to study areas rich in rare resources before landing."

[lean garden]

well yea, and now we know that the Zariman still was designed like that because it wasnt supposed to arrive after the Sentients

It was supposed to beat them there

and still do all the terraforming legwork

because some blue-skin long-arm couldnt wait

[reef citrus]

that does make sense

[lean garden]

In the end neither the Zariman First nor Sentient First Camps were entirely right

[reef citrus]

correct me if im wrong but that is the twin paradox no?

ship A goes first

some time later ship B is created with better tech and it arrives at the destination first

[lean garden]

I think youre thinking of something else

[reef citrus]

i tried to find the right name but all the results pointed to twin paradox

[lean garden]

twin paradox is about how a twin who travels FTL comes back to earth and finds their twin older than they are

perhaps youre thinking of that writing prompt where a ship arrives at their colony destination only to find that its already been colonised by a much faster ship?

[reef citrus]

yea

that one

[lean garden]

In essence that was the plan for the Zariman lol

beat the sentients to Tau

[reef citrus]

I really hope Old Peace can better explain the events before the Old War

[lean garden]

It has a school, it might explain how the Old War started in a history class. It might also explain how the Old Peace started too

[static zinc]

Got a lore theory.
Regarding the inconsistent nature of tenno mortality/immortality in lore.

Psychosomatic death.
Works like this, Prior the awaking from the second dream, Tenno are vulnerable as they still believe that they themselves are the warframe.

This leads to a sort of exploit where if you can overwhelm them with significant rapid trauma-You can gaslight them into dying.
This partially evidenced by Somatic scaring found on the tenno, Suggest that there is a potential for harmful effects to transcend the somatic link and harm the tenno directly.
If they actually believe they're being harmed.

Awakened tenno are less prone to this.
Any thoughts?

[eager dragon]

Wasn't the only Tenno we've seen dying was Rell?

[static zinc]

We've seen others.
I:E Mirage limbo gara ect.

Mirage in particular is interesting as Lotus is quite torn up about stating "The warframe disintegrates and she is lost to me forever"
Granted this is old lore, But for the emotional context to ring true here someone has to be dying.
And given that she is tasked with caring for the tenno specifically, not the meat puppets, i think its significant.

This was technically "Pre Tenno" in terms of lore, if you assume that the DE didn't already have them in mind when this was written.

[pale cedar]

They did have Tenno in mind when in was written

DE plan years in advance

[eager dragon]

I dunno if they did that back then, but I do think that they did have the Tenno specifically for a while, yeah

[pale cedar]

And we technically didn’t see Rell die as Rell died before we met him

[static zinc]

Regardless old lore such as this is typically reintegrated at some point.
or left ambiguous enough to be interpreted like now.

[eager dragon]

Technically speaking he was still "alive" via the transference loop, but I get your point

[static zinc]

Is he? i'm pretty sure "Set him free" by killing him which is what let wally into the universe.

We killed his harrow anyway.

[pale cedar]

Wally was controlling Rell the entire quest

[eager dragon]

Huh, what? No, Rell went insane due to Wally, yes, but he was still Rell

[static zinc]

Nemesis what do you think of my theory?
well both of you, if we assume tenno do indeed die.

what do you think of my explenation?

[pale cedar]

No, Wally was in Rells mind

[eager dragon]

Right, but he wasn't fully replaced

[static zinc]

He was actively fighting Wally and starting to lose. is how i remember it.

[eager dragon]

He was still technically alive

[pale cedar]

The tapping players constantly call a Rell thing is Wally

Wally is who we fight at the end of the quest when freeing Rell showing he had a grasp on him the whole time

[static zinc]

I'd have to replay the chains of harrow to confirm that.

I do recall some element of him being "Corrupted" so might track.

We do have to fight him after all

[eager dragon]

He was corrupted by Wally and insane, yes

But it's more of a progressed version of what happened to us in the War Within

He's still there

[static zinc]

With the kuva you mean?

[eager dragon]

Just not fully himself

[eager dragon]

Yes

[static zinc]

Hm, solid.

[eager dragon]

He obviously wasn't sane, maybe not even conscious

[static zinc]

Anyway back to my theory.
its just my personal explanation for why we're considered immortal.
Yet some tenno end up dead.

We're awake, they were not is what i arrived at.

[eager dragon]

But he was alive

[eager dragon]

Perhaps. Does make me wonder why Ballas didn't take that opportunity in the New War to do that though.

[static zinc]

Can't anymore. we're awake.

[eager dragon]

Surely he would know how Margulis put them in the Secons Dream in the first place

[static zinc]

We know we are not the frame, so during the new war he can't do that to us specifically.

[static zinc]

Well first he'd need to put us in a pod on LUA.

[eager dragon]

I mean, we were unconscious for a bit after being stabbed with the Paracesis 🤷‍♂️

[static zinc]

Yeah but he chose to send us to the void.
so i'm assuming there's something preventing us from being put into the dream.

He does state "You cannot kill the devil tenno But you can send it back to hell"

Which is what spurred this thought to begin with, Because even though we're "Immortal" even by ballas's estimations and attempts. some have nonetheless died.

this is my attempt to reconcile that, and it has issues i admit its a very lose theory so far.

the thing i'm stuck on right now, is at the end of the New peace showcase, when our tenno kills the sentient and states "i didn't want to it was him or me"
Implying that one some level the tenno was fearing for their own life.

surley they wouldn't were they entirely immortal right?

But our is clearly awake in that scene, which causes issues with my current theory, still trying to resolve that in a fashion that isn't just handwaving.

[eager dragon]

I asked that myself and honestly? I think it's a war reflex. They are a child soldier.

That's why Adis reacted like that. He knows the Tenno can't die. He knows they know. And yet, they still choose to kill the Sentient.

[static zinc]

Possibly, but we also have to consider that by this point our tenno is quite used to fighting.

So would they have that reflex?
I'm not dismissing what you're saying entirely let me be clear.
Just trying to get to the bottom of this.

Cause like i said, others HAVE died in the past.
Mirage for example. Yes that's old lore but its still cannon until otherwise stated by DE.

And it just doesn't carry any emotional weight, nor does it make sense, if the Warframe was the only thing lost.

But then we loop back to, why couldn't ballas of all people do it?

see my issue here?
and what my theory aims to do?

[static zinc]

Its messy i admit.
which is why i'm testing it in public.
wanna see what other insights people can bring to it.

[candid lagoon]

yo i need someone to link me fact, tenno is human human or orokin "human"

[static zinc]

Its also possible that what keeps Us specifically alive, is some classic externalism stuff, Where post deal we're essentially a universal constant.

[silk atlas]

They're all human, just that the Orokin got sick body mods

[static zinc]

Everything in warframe is Human.
Or a derivative there of.

What exactly you class as "Human" is up to you, but there are no other races in warframe besides the sentients. which are also made by Human/orokin so therfore human.

[silk atlas]

Orokin isn't a race

[static zinc]

Its just a higher standard of nobility

[candid lagoon]

cant explain properly to my newbie clanmate here, he just done TNW

[static zinc]

with presumably some form of genetic mods.

[pale cedar]

It’s a class system

[static zinc]

Yes, tell him that.
its a class system, because that's exactly what it is.

its just that the orokin have access to better tech medicine and other stuff, and the tenno are well.
Demons.

Now anyway, but were just normal people pre Zariman.

[pale cedar]

A human with powers is still a human

[candid lagoon]

alright
"can you explain why orokin can transfer their conscience via kuva, not into tenno mind?"

[static zinc]

Well now the tenno is something strictly different i would argue.

[candid lagoon]

i mean idk dude tenno void mind some shit hahaha

[static zinc]

They can take tenno bodies.
but not powers.

[pale cedar]

They can do it to Tenno see War Within or Voruna Leverian

[static zinc]

The queens try this in the war within.

the reasons the power don't transfer (imagine) is because wally made a deal with Us. not them.

So our powers are bound to us on a Oro/Soul level.

[pale cedar]

Don’t use Oro in arguments it’s irrelevant

[static zinc]

As that is also what a tenno is, Their body is kinda nothing at this point.
they're just energy now.

[static zinc]

Has oro been retconned?

[silk atlas]

Oro hasn't even been relevant in the second time it's been mentioned by Albrecht. His mention of it is from how irrelevant it was to the discussion lol

[candid lagoon]

imma just screenshot u guys

[pale cedar]

Oro is shut down by everyone except Teshin

Oro is just a conclave thing

[static zinc]

Ah i see. i missed that new bit.

Regardless.
powers are specific to US. i imagine, not the body.

[pale cedar]

Teshin never actually says the Tenno have Oro

He says the enemy have it who like the Tenno can survive

[static zinc]

If that weren't the case, well the orokin would've just taken the tenno's bodies would they not?

I see.

[static zinc]

Does your friend have any other questions?

[candid lagoon]

he got a few, sec gonna compiled it n simplify it

i ill ping later

[static zinc]

Swell

[swift sentinel]

Tenno were considered freaks and devils. At the height of the Empire no-one would have considered taking them over.
We've only seen the desperate try to take a Tenno body in continuity, Tuvul during the Betrayal, and the Elder Queen after many years of clone degradation

[static zinc]

Sure but if you got the power to do math so hard you cease to exist.
Do you not think the Orokin would've?

That's the crux of what i'm saying, they didn't do it because to them its just another Yuvan. but this time with added stigma.

And no void powers

[swift sentinel]

I don't think they would have cared about the powers during the Empire. It comes across that they saw it as contamination of some sort.

Only after everything fell apart could they overlook that.

[pale cedar]

They did care that’s why they wanted Margulis to denounce us

[static zinc]

Hm i could see that, but they were also power hungry megolomaniacs.
So i suppose that can go either way in terms of "I want power to be more gooder powerful or "This power is doo doo dirty i don't want it"

[hidden basin]

Is there any warframe YouTube channel that discusses lore? btw I'm talking about actual lore not theory...

[static zinc]

A few.
Stallord comes to mind.

[misty helm]

Didnt Tuvul tried just that before Voruna mauled his golden butt?

[candid lagoon]

corgtheMighty is close enuff

it follow the timeline, not the actual game timeline

[static zinc]

TheDsIEGE also does some stuff here and there.

[static zinc]

I skipped her lore so i have no idea.
enlighten me.

[hidden basin]

ok, thanks for the suggestion 😁

[hidden basin]

weeeeeeell, this guy is the reason why I put the "actual lore not theory" there

[static zinc]

Oh right yes

[candid lagoon]

damn u need to teach me how to do that with channel name n everthing else

[static zinc]

in that case Stallord

He doesn't upload often, but his stuff is good.

and mostly without fault as i recall.

[misty helm]

Like Hellbore said, during the Tenno rebellion shenanigan, Tuvul tried to perform continuity on Voruna's operator

[candid lagoon]

i manage to cleared my clanmate questions, turn out he misunderstand the orokin word of killing margulis

[static zinc]

Hm interesting, queens did that us too.
But yes, we could still argue those were desparate cases.
and that they would not inherit the tenno's abilities.

thanks for enlightening me.

[static zinc]

elaborate.

[misty helm]

Speaking about which. Given we know Tuvul had a family of his own... what's the chance the twins are Tuvul's daughters?

[pale cedar]

https://youtube.com/@tehaisbagus?si=EzJ0lF1GJYw3ak7p

[swift sentinel]

The Elder Queen does seem to think that she would get something from becoming a Tenno, rather than just any non-clone Yuvan.

[pale cedar]

Stallord always goes into theory

[static zinc]

Hm, interesting.
I wonder in that case.

[misty helm]

The war within was before Cetus, right? Yeah, what am I talking about

[static zinc]

if it is possible for them to inherit our powers surely SOMEONE would've done it right?

[static zinc]

Like chronologically? or in terms of release order?

[misty helm]

Though we had Glast Gambit...

[misty helm]

Release order I guess.

I mean it in the sense that, one could argue the queens werent looking to make a yuvan out of the operator because they just wanted a 'healthy' body

[static zinc]

Hm i see, Yes i suppose its possible they wanted something greater.

[misty helm]

Like, it's not like they couldnt had just kidnapped some randomass kid like Nef did

[pale cedar]

Should’ve just took Teshin tbh

[static zinc]

its a lot of effort to go through imagine, rather than just kidnapping some colonist somewhere.

Oh cool we made the same point lol

[misty helm]

Exactly my thoughts

[static zinc]

But they would also want Prime Gucci Balenciaga body, they are queens after all.

[pale cedar]

They have a moving collection of debris though

[static zinc]

Sure but they also have an endless army.

which spans the system.

Not a good one mind you but it exists.

[pale cedar]

They took Operator because it was the nearest body and because we went to them

[static zinc]

Oh you never told me what you thought of my theory earlier.

I mean fair enough.
yeah sure that seems perfectly pragmatic.

But they were also actively searching for a body were they not?
Are you telling me the demon child was the first thing to come to mind?

Seems like they did want us specifically.

What the others said makes sense in retrospect, they did probably want a tenno specifically.

[swift sentinel]

I'm fairly sure Teshin's orders were to bring a Tenno. That's why he tries to warn us away.

[static zinc]

It has been so damn long since i played that quest, imagine you are entirely correct.

which begs the new question.
Why?

what do they get? void powers?
if so. How? (in regard to the deal)
and why hasn't anyone else tried
in the past

[pale cedar]

Wally has tried it in the past

[static zinc]

Yes but that's quite different that's void daddy, not transference/continuity.

[pale cedar]

Albrecht ran away the moment Wally stretched out his hand

[static zinc]

Wally possess people all the time.

[pale cedar]

Baro did make a deal to kill the other versions of him

[static zinc]

BARO?
first i'm hearing of this

Merchant boy made deal with the devil?

[pale cedar]

Wally only gave us powers because of the whole army of parents running at us

One System For All
Tenno!

You will hardly believe the scope of my achievements. Even I am a little giddy, I confess.

As a result of my little arrangement, the realms are not merely aligned. They have connected. And the walls between them have come tumbling down.

You may now, if you choose, socialize, sojourn and sally forth with Tenno from other dimensions of existence!

Cross freely. Come together as never before.

What a magnificent bargain I, Baro Ki'Teer, have struck. I do hope that charming stranger passes my way again.

I fancy I can hear opportunity rap-tap-tapping at my door, even now!

Baro Ki'Teer

[static zinc]

I don't think that's correct.
he very clearly has other intentions for us.
Playing some long long con, Which we seemingly recently ruined.

[pale cedar]

That is true but at that moment I’m meaning

[static zinc]

Okay i'm not conviced that-that explicetly means that he made a deal with wally.
only that he's been influenced somehow, Regardless that interesting.

[static zinc]

I feel like he definitely planned that.
He is the void afterall. so our parents going insane is likely his doing.

which he probably did to gode us into taking the deal

so that's we'd be useful to him down the line.

[pale cedar]

“I fancy I can hear opportunity rap-tap-tapping at my door, even now!”

[static zinc]

Yes i read that, him hearing it is neat.
but i remain unconvinced that he exhibits and voidborn properties.

is he potentially haunted?
sure.

[pale cedar]

Here’s another quote from Baro

There Can Be Only One
Are you familiar with the philosophy of Eternalism? The notion that all possible permutations of the present moment are real?

I never had much time for it. The distasteful notion that there could be multiple Baro Ki'Teers! Can you imagine? Yours is truly one of a kind.

As it happens, during my last foray into the Void, a dashing stranger presented me with the opportunity to refine all my selves into a single perfect individual. Of course, I shook hands on the deal immediately.

Now every Tenno will visit the same Baro Ki'Teer, with the same items, at the same time.

As this singularity comes into focus, you will notice my offerings remain the same for my next three visits. A minor inconvenience.

I am certain there will be no future unforeseen consequences from this momentous deal.

Singularly yours,
Baro Ki'Teer

[static zinc]

Oh now that changes things.

fascinating.
that does indeed sound like the same sort of deal we made.
Bar the powers.

Huh baro of all people.

[misty helm]

I do wonder what does wally gets from the deals

[pale cedar]

Well the other quote does say Baro wants to meet him again

[static zinc]

Yeah, its clearly a sort of deal with the devil type thing.
Buit i mean i can't imagine he's out here taking souls

[misty helm]

He's taking our Oro
He's farming us for conclave points

[static zinc]

Has to be

I mean he has a plan, that much is obvious.
but what remains to be seen.

[mystic lynx]

Does dating hex members do anything gameplay wise?

[static zinc]

Chages some voice lines for their skins, otherwise no.

[tall echo]

They show up in your backroom

[candid lagoon]

nope

[sly pagoda]

dating them does not change anything gameplay wise, In fact you only need to get them to Trusted for the good ending to 1999.

[pale cedar]

Liked

[sage moat]

given the use of transference (as brozime made me realize) and the margulis jumpscare and the tactical potato interview... margulis is alive, isn't she? in the old peace?

[eager dragon]

Impossible

She must have died before major Tenno deployment

Either that or she somehow missed most of the children she was taking care were missing

Which I somehow doubt, even when she was blind

[lean garden]

given in The Silver Grove, Silvanna comments on how Margulis is as much as a victim as the tenno, its possible that this incident was near around the time where they executed margulis

silvanna notes the shift from transference as therapy to transference as a weapon

[lean garden]

plus given that in TSD when we're giving a audio flashback to ballas and margulis, the day after that Margulis was executed

[sage moat]

but she's the one who took away our ability to transfer out of the warframes, isn't she?

[lean garden]

I mean those functions were still around when transference wasnt for the warframe projects

so its not like she wouldnt have been able to seal that away

before she was executed

[sage moat]

that could make sense

[woven coyote]

Also that cute little thing in the debug message that teases the second dream
"Margulis implantation"

[sage moat]

never trust a warframe youtuber to talk about lore

gotta love half of them still thinking erra made caliban when that isn't what the word "consigned" means

[lilac aspen]

YouTubers: “Erra made Caliban.”

Lore: “Erra was the Amazon Shipping for Caliban. Ballas was the one who sent the specific order and how he wanted it made.”

Or was it vice versa

[lean garden]

more like all it says its that Erra put Caliban away after the Old War

the assumption here is that since Erra put caliban away, Erra is the "Creator" in the description

[lilac aspen]

Oh
So Erra hadn’t shipped Caliban out yet

[pale cedar]

Erra wouldn’t do the shipping
Ballas would

I think the issue is players confusing co-signed and Consigned

[sage moat]

i read it as ballas making it and erra viewing it as such an abomination that he had to put it away (consign it)

[lilac aspen]

Imagine finding something that’s you but also not you

[lilac aspen]

Ballazon Shipping Prime

[untold lion]

so if Baro dies thsts straight up it for every version of hom?

[sage moat]

is adis in Void Mode during the battle of boro overlook?

worst screenshot known to man but you can see its him

[lean garden]

I dont think we can call it void mode when it looks like he went nakie

its the same stuff as his blue hands things

[sage moat]

can sentients just do that?

[proper barn]

I mean

[eager dragon]

Looks more like what the Vomvalysts do

After we "kill" them

[misty helm]

Wait. Adis is a dude?

[proper barn]

Idk? We see other sentients do it.

[eager dragon]

Yes

[sage moat]

oh yeah vomvalysts do that my bad forgot about them

[proper barn]

A boy child but yes

[misty helm]

I thought it was a girl lol

[proper barn]

It says this in the Trailer.

[sage moat]

i only ever kill them near lures cause im a based eidolonpilled 50minutescel

[proper barn]

Saying it is werid. Also have you neared heard a child or a teen? Or even just a high voiced dude?

[misty helm]

What kind of question is that

I wasnt born an adult

[proper barn]

Actually that might be too mean.

I'm sorry.

But yeah Adis is seemingly a boy child. Also sentients Gender is werid.

In a good way.

[thick grotto]

Adis has a female voice and it is a woman who sing the song Lullaby of Manifold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPKo04oNQ9k

So it's a girl.

[eager dragon]

Yes, but the Operator refers to them as a "he"

[thick grotto]

When ?

[lean garden]

there is also this on the official website

[charred field]

Is it not common for female VAs to voice younger male characters anyways?

[proper crow]

Yes it is very common

[thick grotto]

Yes, for young boy child. Like Son Goku.

...Everything about Adis tells me she's a girl. It's disturbing.

[proper crow]

Jimmy neutron? Voiced by Debbie derryberry, the same person who voices Coco bandicoot

[strange turtle]

It can also be male characters in general

[proper crow]

Ben 10 and Timmy Turner? Tara Strong

[strange turtle]

Like Goku’s JP VA

[lean garden]

or Luffy's JP Va

[proper barn]

What is a female voice praytell?

[silk atlas]

Isn't Naruto's English VA a woman?

I wouldn't be surprised if Adis is meant to be like a "child" Sentient to mirror the Operator here

[proper barn]

Also not true Adis is a child. Also you play the game where main characters are trans and gay and the Drifter/operator says Gender isn't real. Like you can use Any voice with any body type.

I'm sorry to inform you about this that warframe might have a lot a plot points about gender and stuff. Also The sentients aren't people.

Like why would the sentients have to be 1 to 1 with how people are?

[proper barn]

I wanna know what's disturbing about this. Tell me.

[silk atlas]

I think you can chill with it, Vinny

[charred field]

Exactly, I mean the sentients have mimics which shapeshift so clearly everything is likely fair game

[silk atlas]

Not all Sentients are mimics so it's... eh.

[proper barn]

Come on they said the fact a child had a high-pitched voice was disturbing.

[sage moat]

i have a counterpoint vinny

ai pfp
We can safely discard their opinion

one theory i heard was that adis is either directly natah or is a first draft of natah. something built to spy on the tenno and the sentients afterwards decide to revolt rather than the orokin

as in, the sentients choose to break the treaty. not the orokin.
I don't agree with it but its definitely a possibility i think

[proper barn]

I wanna see more about the Dax Separatists.

They seem so interesting. I still wonder if teshins Daughter/Sister/Wife is gonna be there.

[sage moat]

i am for sure 100% in the boat that ballas or some other orokin is leading them and that's how they can fight

maybe the orokin weren't buddy buddy but each had their own seperate powergrasping goal to become The One Orokin God, maybe this was tuvul's, and ballas's simply was the one that worked

[proper barn]

I think we might learn the separatists are the good guys.

[misty helm]

I didnt want to get spoiled too much with the tennocon playthrought, so I havent seen much of it beyond the cinematic till the arrival on the 'academy'.

But I would say it's quite likely Ballas always wanted to govern the new system; alone, ideally.

[sage moat]

possibly! but the leader definitely seems grineer racist so not 100% good

the only thing worse than a warframe loretuber is a warframe loretuber's twitch chat

[lean garden]

as a religious person myself...

Just because I see someone dressed as a priest doesnt mean I will assume that my God is real

thats a crazy leap in Logic

[charred field]

You think they operate in logic?

[sage moat]

oh just a sidenote, i like the tail flicks Uriel does in the trailer. i hope those are in his idle

[lean garden]

arent they in idle in the trailer?

like it looks a smidge like in game rendered

[sage moat]

oh btw

Rockstar frame
Mushroom frame
Devil frame
In like 5 years we're going to have a banger year of nothing but incredibly cool primes

[lean garden]

Honestly theres so many ways a mushroom frame could be

[charred field]

Wait who is mushroom frame

[sage moat]

sometimes DE doesn't do a frame that appeals to me. im not a cyte fan, government sniper aesthetic doesn't appeal to me. but after him its been banger after banger after banger

[lean garden]

the next warframe

[silk atlas]

Someone we're getting in fall.

[sage moat]

next frame, teased at tennocon

[lean garden]

Like are we getting:

[sage moat]

we only know its a mushroom cause pablo said he's a "fun guy"

[charred field]

Ah didn't know that, I missed watching tennocon cause nightshift worker

[lean garden]

Mushroom Druid? Like that of D&D/BG3?
Mycelial Scientist? Like Star Trek Discovery?
Mushroomancy Support? Like in Monster Hunter?

So many ways for an extant form of life

[sage moat]

my two lead guesses are a lean support build based on fairy circles and the like or a big bulky rot-druid

[lean garden]

I hope of Mycelial Scientist

https://tenor.com/view/star-trek-discovery-spore-drive-jump-teleport-gif-17214949

[sage moat]

either there'll be moss dripping off of him or he'll prance around in the woods and force you to dance when you all into his circle. maybe he'll be our first twinkframe that isn't implied to be a child

[sage moat]

i do love me a scientist, gonna build lavos at some point

[fallen iris]

Who tf is the girl in the opening cinematic of warframe?

[silk atlas]

An Operator. Cinematic was made by a third part so it doesn't make sense in the lore.

[fallen iris]

Wuz boutta say

[violet storm]

Maybe the shroom frame has certain support and damage abilities similar to others.

Like a spore ability that swaps between the 3 toxin complex elements and pure toxin

[fallen iris]

Maybe the frame takes shrooms and trips balls

[amber prism]

Shroom frame? They said we were getting a devil frame

[eager dragon]

That's after the "Fun Guy" (fungi) frame

Demon is in December

[tall echo]

Later

[amber prism]

Didn't hear anything about a fungus frame from tennocon, only new peace and devils triad

[silk atlas]

They mentioned it around when they mentioned the Modding quest

[eager dragon]

It's in the Fall update. The "Fun Guy"

(Fungi)

[amber prism]

So we're getting a repeat lavos?

[tall echo]

Lavos isn't a mushroom frame what

[dire mountain]

Lavos is alchemy and snake themed

[fallen iris]

Bro is trolling

[tall echo]

Is your pfp dante dante

[bright temple]

from the Devil May Cry series

[amber prism]

Not trolling, lavos literally has mushrooms on him, yes alchemy and kinda snake ig, saryn the snake frame but still

[bright temple]

??????

He has none

He is alchemic snake man

I see no mushrooms

[strange plinth]

the top of the head on regular is kinda mushroom-y but not enough to say its a part of his theme

[tall echo]

He doesn't

[daring flare]

What is a warframe exactly? I'm curious as to what makes a warframe a warframe. What defines a warframe essentially. I've tried going through the wiki and old reddit post but I'm still not confident as to what a warframe exactly is. Saying they are biological weapons isn't discriptive enough and saying they are biological weapons built by the orikin raises questions like what about chroma and valkyr which iinm were not built be the orokin.

[tall echo]

Warframes are warframes

[strange plinth]

that question is sorta answered during The Sacrifice
so have you done that

[bright temple]

Have you done the Sacrifice?

[lilac aspen]

Lavos’ head looks “mushroomy”because his default helmet got damaged during an alchemical experiment that went wrong

[daring flare]

yes, but I usually skip lore, mind explaining?

I skip lore then learn later

[tall echo]

Ok so why are you here then

[tall echo]

That's. Unintelligent

[daring flare]

that's just how I play games bro

even with elden ring

[lilac aspen]

Valkyr was built by Orokin
She simply got skinned by Alad-V

[bright temple]

My Tenno. Why.

[strange plinth]

ok
warframes are people that were transformed using the helminth strain of infestation
both prime and regular variants of (most) frames existed during the orokin era
primary exception is like. revenant. his prime existed but not his regular

[tall echo]

Either you care about the lore or you don't

[daring flare]

if you don't wanna answer don't answer it's not that deep

[tall echo]

Ok but unlike elden ring the lore isn't hidden in item descriptions it's a core aspect of the story

[proper crow]

If anything, base Lavos does look like a mushroom. However, I would attribute that more to where he's found, than anything else

[bright temple]

It vaguely looks like a mushroom cap but it also looks like melted plastic

[daring flare]

ok, I got that so as the other person mentioned valkyr was built by the orokin? I was under the impression she was an alad v creation

[bright temple]

It’s too indistinct to say it’s a mushroom

[strange plinth]

as they said, she was skinned by alad, not made by him
the skin was used for Zanuka

[tall echo]

It's inefficient

[daring flare]

oh I see I see makes sense

thanks

[lilac aspen]

I am the unofficial Lore Master
Ask me anything, I know everything (and if not I’ll make it up)

[bright temple]

What’s Xaku favorite snack

[lilac aspen]

The Lego candy bricks

[silk atlas]

All Warframes are made by the Orokin.
We're not getting into whatever's going on with Caliban.

[tall echo]

No that would be gray archon

[proper crow]

Why does the game not give me the item I want when I need it?

[strange plinth]

why do tau's suns keep changing

[lilac aspen]

Suffering builds character

[proper crow]

Lol fair enough

[tall echo]

Desire sensor

[lilac aspen]

They have a sun resistant Sentient inside the sun switching the LED colors

[tall echo]

Climate change

[strange plinth]

yea makes sense

[lilac aspen]

He was also made by Orokin
Though his prime looks to be a team effort thing

[amber prism]

He does

[tall echo]

@amber prism where are the mushrooms

[bright temple]

Anyways, moving on

[tall echo]

Nah

I wanna know where those imaginary mushrooms are

[bright temple]

It’s tired at this point, they’re doing a bit or just being annoying

This does remind me to finally listen to Lavo’s leverian

[tall echo]

A cool detail related to it is that all his abilities are devices(or the snakes on his arms)

[lilac aspen]

No one
Not a soul
Lavos’ two: Snakes rapidly tossing vials haphazardly

[errant crystal]

Something in prelude to war still makes no sense to me ngl

[amber prism]

You talking about base or prime? Base his head has mushrooms

[tall echo]

That's a partially melted visor, try again

[tall echo]

Not gonna say what it is?

[errant crystal]

Sorry my dog yoinked something lol

I was wondering why erra and ballast get weird when lotus mentions killing erra

[tall echo]

Cuz he should be dead and they don't know how to explain him being alive

[proper crow]

Speaking of being alive, I still think it's funny alad has a possibility he isn't dead

[bright temple]

I mean if anyone did, it would be Alad

[tall echo]

Very high possibility

[bright temple]

Man’s a roach

[tall echo]

After all, why would alad be on the front lines of a war

[errant crystal]

Ah so their lie was breaking down pretty much

[tall echo]

And DE couldn't think of an explanation

[errant crystal]

Even still what exactly did they gain from making her think hes dead

The outcome still would've been the same

[swift sentinel]

I think he was dead, and revived by those Kuva-like spheres

[tall echo]

Nothing

[tall echo]

He doesn't have those until tnw

[amber prism]

Yeah looking like a mushroom

[errant crystal]

Orokin shenanigans

[swift sentinel]

Yes, exactly

[tall echo]

He doesn't have them in prelude to war.

[swift sentinel]

We are agreeing

[tall echo]

No

[swift sentinel]

Wait, I'm think of a differenet cutscene

[tall echo]

You gotta be trolling at this point

[bright temple]

Obviously

[amber prism]

No

[restive river]

I wanna say they confirmed he’s alive in an interview?

[restive river]

Then show how he’s related to mushrooms

His base helmet is damage
Not a mushroom

[proper crow]

Do you have a time frame on that?

Or if you can can you provide receipts?

I just really want to confirm

[amber prism]

His look, like I already said

[restive river]

I can’t cause I don’t recall which interview just that I believe Adrian said it
I’m sorry

[restive river]

Elaborate
Cause his base has nothing that looks like a mushroom nor does his kit reference mushrooms

[bright temple]

Source: "Trust me "

[restive river]

@proper crow wait I think it was during tenncon
I’ll see if I can find it

[radiant crown]

I think it would be cool if DE showed us more parts of the lore old peace style

Like, us at the banquet where we killed the orokin either cinematic or gameplay

[amber prism]

It does

[radiant crown]

We have that?

[bright temple]

Separate convo

Vyntax keeps saying Lavos is mushroom themed because his base helmet looks like one (it doesn’t)

[restive river]

@proper crow found it!

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxy84TcmK4VlPBJZrzaOUv6GSTudAKScGd?si=dQaZaQW2IuWsHAqf

[restive river]

We don’t

[radiant crown]

On that lavos note do we consider him a snakeframe? I want a snakeframe whit actual snake abilities and not snakes as attachments

[restive river]

It looks like that because of damage from an explosion
Cause he’s an alchemist
He experimented

[bright temple]

Lavos is snake-adjacent

[restive river]

He’s the alchemy frame with a snake theme

[bright temple]

Since he has literal snakes on him

[restive river]

Saryn could be seen as snake in abilities
Mirage has a literal snake skin

[radiant crown]

True true, ill still brainstorm a snake kit tho for no reason

[tall echo]

I think saryn is closer to mushroom in abilities and looks

[restive river]

We arguably have some duplicate themes so that’s fine :)

[tall echo]

Volt and gyre

[bright temple]

Saryn is certainly more shroomy than Lavo

[proper crow]

Thank you! Also, it makes me very happy that they seem to understand the meme of him being a roach

[restive river]

Temple with Octavia and Ember

[proper crow]

I can't wait for him to show up again

[restive river]

Same :D

[tall echo]

Next tennocon someone has to show up to the cosplay contest as alad in a roach costume

[proper crow]

He's one of those characters in the game where it's just like..."oh God it's this guy again" but lovingly

[restive river]

Harder to kill than an Orokin

[tall echo]

I'm struggling to think of more dupe themes

My pfp isn't the curse of knowing so that's my excuse

[lilac aspen]

Alad V is the William Afton of Warframe

[restive river]

Oraxia and Saryn?

[lilac aspen]

He always comes back

[proper crow]

Those two don't really share one though outside of just being "toxin" frames

[tall echo]

Nah ballas is

[proper crow]

If you want to be technical, then Revenant and Garuda do

[tall echo]

Alad doesn't die

[lilac aspen]

True

[dense herald]

I unlocked the second dream!

do I do it right away or wait?

I just reached mr 7 too

[swift sentinel]

Second Dream can be done right away.

[tall echo]

Every quest asap except duviri

And the nidus quest just ignore that one completely it sucks

[dense herald]

first I heard someone warn against a mission

what did it do to earn that?

[tall echo]

It's index

[swift sentinel]

It has really dumb Index requirements

[tall echo]

Index is just soul drainingly boring

[dense herald]

?

[tall echo]

It acts as a weird tutorial kinda for the mode too

Not worth the time it takes, trust me. I did it three times

[dense herald]

how long is the second dream? and is it difficult? I wanna know if I can use it to level weapons for MR

or do I come equipped with my best gear?

[tall echo]

Not very
Depends on your builds

Using quests to lvl weapons is certainly an interesting strategy though

[tall echo]

If you've done the new strange you can just go to sanctuary onslaught to lvl gear btw

Talk to simaris to access it

[dense herald]

nope never did the new strange

[swift sentinel]

If you've just unlocked Second Dream, there's also Helene on Saturn if you want to farm Orokin Cells (and other resources) at the same time.

[tall echo]

-# isn't tns mandatory tho

[swift sentinel]

With the Double Affinity weekend, it should only take 3 rotations to max a weapon

[swift sentinel]

It's a Side Quest

[dense herald]

do I clear every node for a planet or only do what the junction ask?

idk what the strat is now

[tall echo]

Yes

Up to personal preference

[tall echo]

I remember it being required for a junction but maybe I'm getting old

[humble sierra]

Just what the junction asks to progress, but every node from Mercury-Sedna is required for Steel Path (new game plus)

[tall echo]

I'm turning into gerson

[swift sentinel]

I mean they just re-did the junctions, but maybe before that I also don't remember

[swift sentinel]

Doing the Junction requirements plus all the quests will get you most of the way there.

For intance I have never completed a Lua Spy, but have Steel Path unlocked.

[tall echo]

One quest also lets you skip the worst boss in the game

[tall echo]

I've completed so many just for a stance mod

[swift sentinel]

I tried after the fact, but just ended up trading for it.

[tall echo]

I am violently stubborn

Not even being stuck on 2 seperate bosses in elden ring for 4 days each could change me

[digital echo]

because most of it is legacy content of stuff either removed from index shortly after or was never implemented outside of its associated quest

[dry sable]

So I just did Jade Shadows, is Jade and Stalker basically similar to Umbra?

[misty salmon]

Jade has some similarities, being Framed as a punishment and managing to retain some amount of her own personality and autonomy.

Stalker is... whatever Stalker is.

[dry sable]

I take it that Stalker was punished as well for not saying anything about Jade

just curious but is there a story after that quest?

with the baby and stalker

[misty salmon]

They were both punished for their relationship, though only Jade's is particularly clear.

After that quest Stalker went off to Tennocon as a single father.

Unfortunately we don't have any ingame idea of what he's up to, other than being very slightly less antagonistic towards the Tenno.

[bright temple]

There are little feathers in the relays that I believe talk more about Jade’s story in the past, and I think in one part it says when next she encountered Stalkoren, he was changed as she was

(so yes he’s her and umbra)

[dry sable]

Aight thanks

[odd prairie]

so if ballas designed the frames who designed the arsenals for frames

i know some weapons are custom made for frame use like the primes

[swift sentinel]

Various Archimedeans probably. There were people working under Ballas on the project.

[humble sierra]

It's flagged as a main/story quest and will likely get a 'sequel' of some sorts, but as of right now, the only thing you get is the Relay story next to Teshin

[sly pagoda]

https://wiki.warframe.com/w/Jade's_Promise

that has the memory feathers

[restive mesa]

How does 1999 fits the creation of the war frames? Like… I know ballad made them, but the hex group seems human… when did the world go from cities and tanks to be barren, filled with plant life, and the hex being the original plate for frames? (Unless of course this all is just a paradoxical space of what ifs were everything happened and nothing happened at the same time)

[fleet furnace]

entrati took the warframe serums with him on a trip to 1999

[humble sierra]

The Protoframes did not come first. Entrati goes back in time with the Helminth serums and give each of them the abilities of the already-existing Warframes from the future

1999 is the actual past, not an alternate universe's past

[misty salmon]

With the exception of Flare, who seems to have been developed, but never actually implanted by the Orokin.

[humble sierra]

As for the rest of that question, at some point after 1999, the Orokin gained power, and eventually terraformed the solar system to the state we see now.

[fleet furnace]

i did have a thought regarding if flare/temple is a bootstrap paradox but it cant be since from the convo it seems flare would only be able to show up during the night of the drums, long after entrati wouldve gone to the past to infuse him

[restive mesa]

… ok, this is more confusing 🫤

[humble sierra]

Them*, Flare and Temple are both Nonbinary, but yeah it's not quite a bootstrap paradox. Ballas made the Temple serum but never actually gave it to anyone because he could tell it would give them some sort of rebellious nature. Entrati took the serum and gave it to Flare, so Flare is the first and only Temple, technically

[dawn shoal]

Does anyone remember what the "Orokin artifact" was that Ordis finds the first Mirage riddle within at the start of the Hidden Messages quest? I've been thinking about the ques, and if it's a specific item that you are or at least were supposed to craft to start the quest originally, then I'm curious as to what that is.

I'm mainly curious because I think it might be something that has some kind of quest lore implication potentially but I can't guess without finding out what it is lol. It's been so long since I did that quest I can't remember for the life of me how it goes outside of looking up some videos and the wiki article which don't seem to know either.

[humble sierra]

So after doing a little bit of digging, it seems that when the quest launched, you had to start it by crafting it, which required " 1 argon crystal, 4 oxium, and 5 Orokin cipher – a resource obtained from Orokin Vaults in the Derelict"

So the artifact was probably something that decoded the ciphers?

[dawn shoal]

Ohhhh okay 🤔 that makes sense. I know the ciphers were originally something you needed to access the Orokin derelict tileset nodes when they first came out. I suppose the ciphers were supposed to be flavored as keys or codes to get in while the artifact then sounds like something related to deciphering them for sure.
Was the artifact blueprint itself a junction reward then? I would assume so since I haven't found anything in update history for the quest that says it was moved to Sedna Junction from anywhere else.

Oh wait nevermind, it looks like it was a blueprint available for credits from the Market 🤔 interesting

[strange plinth]

what's the ❌ on here for

[humble sierra]

@bright temple was I wrong about something?

[misty salmon]

I'm half tempted to call it a gender marker.

[normal mountain]

I think I get it
They're convinced it's a bootstrap

[humble sierra]

Ah

I'm not too familiar with the specifics of the term but I think it would imply that Temple in a way created themself

Which isn't really what happened

[normal mountain]

No, it's not

It's... actually, I'm not sure how I would describe Temple's origin

I am convinced, however, that Ballas noped out of there the instant he saw Temple show up (the Night of Naga Drums)

[proper barn]

Actually Kullevro was the one to try to kill Ballas during the night of Naga drums

[normal mountain]

True
But nothing says he wasn't already packing his bags when Kullervo found him

I mean, seriously
Imagine how freaky it would have been for him, to see a Warframe he designed but never actually made, suddenly appear to slaughter his cohorts

[misty salmon]

tbh I'm a bit surprised that Ballas would even turn up in person for the ceremony. He definitely strikes me as the "you should be honoured to even get a holoprojection of the head of the seven" sort.

Probably some sort of Face thing with the rest of the Orokin.

[normal mountain]

Well, it was a ceremony to honor the Tenno
He was probably informed that it would be far greater an honor if he showed up in person

Or, somehow, he arrived to the conclusion himself, idk

[misty salmon]

yep, but he hated/hates our guts, so he certainly wasn't there out of obligation to us. So it must have been obligation to his position, or some sort of risk to his authority if he didn't show up. Or he was plotting to murder us all now that we'd done our job.

[normal mountain]

actually forgot about that tidbit, ngl

Probably a contractual obligation then

[strange plinth]

arkadia put it well in his original message, i thought
can't be a bootstrap because they were out of the system at the time ballas would've made the helminth batch, can't influence their own creation if they weren't there at all
obv entrati couldn't get the sample from the temple that returns during the naga drums, as he had already left for 1999 before the old war was over

[normal mountain]

Yes, but afaik, there's no simple term like "Bootstrap Paradox" to describe that

[strange plinth]

ah yeah
no term like that tmk
other than 'specifically avoiding a bootstrap'

[normal mountain]

They really worked hard to make Temple not a bootstrap, didn't they?

[woven coyote]

Yup

[bright temple]

I am of the mind that Flare/Temple is at least bootstrap-adjacent. Yes obviously the actual original Helminth strain came from Albrecht taking them back in time, but even as Flare themself points out a lot of the things about the Temple warframe come from Flare. The warframe uses their stage name, the completely novel experience that is Lizzie.

And like, Flare says it outright themself, Flare/the Temple warframe are one and the same, aka Flare turns into the original Temple warframe.

I’m of the mind the original strain Albrecht used would have turned Flare into something else, were it not for the sudden creation of Lizzie. And it’s not like Warframes aren’t fluid in that regard, if Lavos’ leverian is anything to go by.

Is it outright a bootstrap? No. Does it skirt close to one? I believe so.

[normal mountain]

I'm not as convinced that the strain would have done something else
Iirc, Albrecht told Flare they would become an even better musician (or something along those lines)

[bright temple]

Which is fine, this is just how it makes sense to me

And just, iunno. Personally it’s a more fun idea to the alternative.

[normal mountain]

I mean, it's possible the guitar wasn't meant to have a mind of its own

...extremely likely, now that I think of it

[strange plinth]

sorta, yeah
we know that the helminth batches can be modified by those injected with them, from mirage prime's trailer
the temple we can make is also through blueprints from Flare, though, ofc they'd include lizzie
overall, whatever the "original" temple strain was vs the one Flare ends up becoming aren't super different, its mostly lizzie
and tbh she'd probably put herself there if the strain was modified or not. still helminth n all

[strange plinth]

i mean
Lizzie doesn't have a voice unless we use the gemini skin, its possible that it only inherited the names, actually

[misty salmon]

I feel if there is a paradox there it's not actually Entrati and the sample, which didn't require Flare/Temple to be developed... but rather Lizzie and the Helminth, who are implied to have a hive mind which might not be temporally bound. The Helminth in the Orokin lab could have been aware of the existence of Lizzie, and vice versa

[strange turtle]

It wasn’t, Lizzie only became Lizzie because of the infestation mixing with Flare’s guitar when they bled on it

[chrome frost]

soo...i was thinking about the infestation the other day...came to the conclusion that if the infested hiveminds were to work together instead of each doing the infesting for themself the solar system would be dead by now

[tall echo]

There's only one hivemind and it is doing the infesting together

[chrome frost]

ok so how does the helminth existing and helping us work then?

[tall echo]

It's not in the hivemind

But it also kinda is

[chrome frost]

look the way i see it the infestation has a "tree" like hivemind with each type of infestation having its own miniature hivemind

they all exist they all can talk but also can do what they want independently of one another while also being able to take over the other infested strain's subjects (talk as in communicate with 1 another)

as an example of that happening look no further than the Mesa infected by the mutalist strain. An already infested organism, getting infested again basically

[turbid vigil]

Anyone been able to translate these words?

[eager dragon]

This is just wrong. Deimos proper has 2 hiveminds already (Vome and Fass), then the derelict have another (Lephantis) and then the Zealoid Prelate as a foreign hivemind. On other planets it's primarily the Phorid, but wether that's all the rest or just for the sake of gameplay is unknown. Then we have the Mutalist strain with Alad V as another head of a Hivemind, and then Jordas Golem is somewhere there as well (although wether that's a separate strain or not I'm not sure). Plus the Helminth with Nidus as another strain and thus hivemind of Infested.

[tall echo]

Those are all under the same hivemind, vome and fass are explicitly stated to be an instance of infighting in one

[eager dragon]

They follow the same strain, yes, but not the same hivemind. A hivemind can't infight, at that point it becomes several minds.

And thus, no longer a single hivemind 🤷‍♂️

[tall echo]

Tell that to DE

[eager dragon]

2 ant nests are both part of the same species but are separate hiveminds for example (even if real life hiveminds aren't of the same type as infested)

[chrome frost]

so basically they have a hivemind with Sub-hiveminds which are comprised of the strains which infest the organisms

[eager dragon]

I guess

They are similar to Sentients in that regard actually

[tall echo]

Sometimes the lore is a bit illogical, just gotta accept it

[eager dragon]

With a central consciousness that controls it's "offspring" of sorts

[chrome frost]

i would like to ask you where was it stated in lore that all of the infestation is controlled by a singular hivemind and not a variety of hiveminds that are connected to eachother by the big one

[tall echo]

Vome and fass being part of the same is stated during heart of deimos

[chrome frost]

thats only 2 beings from the same planet

that doesnt account for ALL of the infestation

[tall echo]

I'm extrapolating from there

[eager dragon]

That is true, with Daughter's words being "[Vome/Fass] are the only proof I have that a hivemind can be divided". That's about it I think, the rest depends on the strain 🤷‍♂️

[tall echo]

90% of the infestation is one strain

If that one strain is made up of like 50 hiveminds then the infestation really needs to get its act together

[chrome frost]

there are multiple of those strains, the fact of the matter is that they even act differently

the emissarian strain being a prime example

not to mention the grey strain that managed to coexist with the fauna of deimos, any other strain would have just eaten all of deimos like it does with everything else

[tall echo]

What fauna, all the other bits of grey strain infestation?

[tall echo]

Of the infestation just evolving?

[chrome frost]

ok name me 1 example of any other strain waiting to show itself in the host

if all of the infestation is controlled by that 1 singular hivemind why not do the same thing as the emissarian strain?

[tall echo]

If all of the sentient fragments are part of the same origin, why do they have to manually transfer adaptations?

[chrome frost]

from the warframe wiki
https://wiki.warframe.com/w/Infested
in the subsection "biology"

as i said Multiple small hives connected to big hive

[tall echo]

The wiki isn't a flawless source, especially for lore

[analog glade]

Wasn't there some recent lore, maybe from kim, that the infested see though time as well?

[chrome frost]

yes

Lizzie even proves it by having a kim dialogue if you decide to reset the year

[analog glade]

using that, couldn't one say the infested might have also 'suggest' formations in a way to Ballas when he was creating warframes?

[chrome frost]

one indeed could although a question would arise as to why would it do that?

[analog glade]

I'd see it more like Ballas is scrawling though the infested combinations, and some pop out to him more then others, and he uses that to build the warframes.

as to why, well we don't know what the end goal of the infestation is yet.

[chrome frost]

i do believe that the main hivemind has a goal of simply assimilating all of life and matter of the origin system into itself

it is not stated but it does appear to be that way since the infestation (all except for the helminth strain) always tries to spread and infest whenever it has the ability to do so

the biggest showcase of its desire to spread being the emissarian strain which honeypotted people into getting infested using a body of a dead corpus affiliated child named Arlo and an infested ostron Kenga

(before you ask as to how im certain that arlo is related to a corpus faction his model is similar to the child from fortuna's intro, not to mention ostron children wearing a different attire entirely)

[analog glade]

But you can see what I mean. Once an infested knows something, its spread though time, and then ballas could read and recreate specific strains the helminth learned. Easily come across the 'temple strain' and dislike what he saw.

[tall echo]

Wasn't it later revealed that arlo was never a person to begin with

[chrome frost]

as i said the infestation used a BODY of a dead child

[tall echo]

I mean that arlo wasn't a corpse either

Always gotta spell it out

[chrome frost]

gonna look through nightwave, i think there was something about it but not that he was never real

[tall echo]

I'd check it myself but my internet can barely handke discord rn

And a cat is attacking my hands with its head

[chrome frost]

nope was a real boy although in the last one she says "whatever he was" but i think that was more in reference to the fact that he wasnt exactly that same kiddo but rather an infested body

[tall echo]

Ah, died

[chrome frost]

yeah

[analog glade]

always reminded me of the ventkids/fortuna people

[chrome frost]

yeah as i said above his model makes me believe that he was a child from a corpus related faction

[tall echo]

Specifically a solaris

[chrome frost]

most likely solaris because well...doesnt exactly have his head on straight

https://tenor.com/view/drumming-pug-pug-drums-drummer-gif-7503788004028994361

[tall echo]

That neck connection is very off-center

[chrome frost]

could be a miconian though

i dont remember their models though

[tall echo]

Myconians don't have the disconnected heads, that's exclusively a solaris thing

[chrome frost]

yeah found their pics on the wiki.... still a bit bummed that they dont seem to exist outside of the glast gambit quest

[tall echo]

Yeah they're only in the worst quest

Wasted potential tbh

[chrome frost]

its like "hey guys look at these people who managed to live alongside the infestation without dying, arent they cool?" 30 minutes later "anyways they dont exist anymore UwU"

[humble sierra]

Tangentially related but OnLyne does the same hand symbol that Arlo does

[chrome frost]

its a peace sign, no? Would make sense for a boyband to do it

[tall echo]

Which has the funny implication that the infestation thinks that's how you become popular or smth

[tall echo]

Not exactly

[tall echo]

Three fingers, one slightly folded in

[humble sierra]

If you look at Drill Bit it's the same gesture

[analog glade]

does that mean anything in sign language?

[humble sierra]

Peace signs don't include the thumbs, typically

[tall echo]

Which one

[chrome frost]

google seems to disagree

[tall echo]

That's not a peace sign

✌️

This is

[analog glade]

from what i'm reading i sign language its a mix of K and L

[chrome frost]

uhh could be related to this thing i found on an old facebook link

[analog glade]

Also a sign for 3

[chrome frost]

that would really depend on whether or not the photoes taken were of the original boyband or of their clones seeing as eleanor states that the og boys are still alive and well

[tall echo]

Overthinking

[tall echo]

The clones can't copy the appearance well enough so

[chrome frost]

thats not exactly the truth (i think?) they might actually have looked exactly like the boyband seeing as they performed on stage at some point

its just that they might have become unstable later on

[tall echo]

Source?

I distinctly remember the mails saying the clones only took part in audio-only interviews due to being so obviously not human

[chrome frost]

yeah yeah its my lack of sleep playing with my thought process

just went to aoi's room to check

able to replicate the voices but not bodies

[tall echo]

Lack of sleep is not good for lore discussions. I should know, sleep deprivation is usually why I stop existing here

[analog glade]

tbf they would probably need to infect the bodies with a similar strain to arlo o get that body double to be anything close.

[chrome frost]

but i need to max out my intrinsics before the affinity bonus ends

[chrome frost]

not exactly

arlo's strain isnt able to replicate other humans perfectly

[tall echo]

Should still be another day no?

[analog glade]

thats what I mean, they cant really get a double till they infect the originals once.

[tall echo]

Lacks voice which is a... significant issue

For a band

[chrome frost]

i think that the lack of voice was caused by the body not being exactly...alive no?

the Zealoid is able to communicate

[analog glade]

that or the throat tentacle.

[tall echo]

The heavily misshapen tongue is probably the issue

Does zealoid speak or telepathy?

Wow that sure is a sentence

[chrome frost]

his laugh has an echo so i dont think thats a telepathic thing

Speaking of....im not sure if the strain is gone...so yeah we might have a problem

[tall echo]

Well yeah zealoids are ppl infested by arlo

[chrome frost]

i personally see zealoids as temu warframes. Cheap cnock offs of warframes

[tall echo]

"Welcome. You are welcome. From eris, we come."

Or smth like that

[chrome frost]

yeah

[tall echo]

Eris is where arlo was found so that's a problem

[chrome frost]

i mean...Eris is deimos but worse

[tall echo]

The whole disguise thing might be from eris in general considering it looks normal on the outside

[robust kernel]

Eris is so underrated in lore terms

[chrome frost]

seeing as the strains are strains because they were forced to adapt to different things thats not out of the question

not to mention the fact that all of those who were found out as infested being sent there like its some garbage disposal planet

[analog glade]

That just reminds me, i still need to do sp prelate.

[chrome frost]

actually....

ACTUALLY WAIT A BLOODY SECOND

the bloody strain might have appeared because of the fact that the infestation within the outcasts was communicating with one another and going "if they discover us, they send us to eris, in eris host dies...Host dies we cant feed...." and just adapted to blend in

[stray herald]

So what is in eris?

The prelate zealot said smth about eris and im completely in the dark about the planet

Or moon

[eager dragon]

Yes. (Not my picture, took it from google)

[stray herald]

So, the entire infestation hive is eris? What about deimos

[eager dragon]

That's a different strain

[stray herald]

Also, thats some gemini home entertainment shii

[lilac aspen]

Regardless they’re all connected in a way despite being different strains

Said connection transcending time somehow

No wonder they aren’t really worried when they get killed and stuff, they know they still exist far ahead in the future

[iron tiger]

What the that’s new

Looks like the planet blew up as some point too

Also what do yall think “we end as we end as we began could mean?”

[eager dragon]

Honestly that looks 100% like the infestations doing to me.

[iron tiger]

Yes it is but it looks like the planet blew up and the infested come from in the core or the crater left by the big boom

[stiff beacon]

Man they really need to give eris a 2025 facelift

[iron tiger]

FR bro infested stuff looks hella old now

[chrome frost]

basically in short what eris is is an infested moon... infested in a way unlike Deimos... And also again unlike Deimos eris is used as a dumping place for all those who were infested but not overtaken.

[iron tiger]

That tileset is confusing too

[eager dragon]

I recently had the derelict thing in Railjack an holy Void does it look so much better than the derelicts on Deimos

[iron tiger]

Are you thinking of Charon?

[chrome frost]

Charon?

[iron tiger]

Eris is a dwarf planet in the Kuiper Belt

[chrome frost]

ah

[tall echo]

And it's so old that one of the tiles can spawn corpus walkers, a heavily outdated version of the basic MOA

[iron tiger]

Charon orbits Pluto

[stray herald]

The boatman

[iron tiger]

lol I actually like that it’s a peak from the past

[tall echo]

Sadly they don't get saved to the codex when scanned

[iron tiger]

Mannnn

They really need an early game quest reconciling old warframe and new warframe stuff

[chrome frost]

regardless eris is essentially a More aggressive deimos that is used as a dump for all of the infested individuals who were found out before being able to mutate. It certainly looks the part, just regular infestation and rock.

[iron tiger]

The old tileset is canon no?

[iron tiger]

The old corpus tile that is

[stray herald]

<@&778745217037238293>

[tall echo]

Eris also regularly shoots out giant infested globs(plague stars) which might be the reason for the big hole

[iron tiger]

Wow all the depth in warframe lore seems so hidden away

[tall echo]

The less important stuff is hidden or just not in the game anymore

Like the origin of the acolytes, or why alad isn't infested in tnw

[iron tiger]

Woah really, can you explain that sounds cool

[iron tiger]

While I would say that stuff is less important in terms of continuing the story, it’s important in that it gives the world depth and a sense of connectivity

[tall echo]

The acolytes are stalker wannabes that hunt(ed) alad. Origin: operation phantom debt(I think that's the name)
Alad got cured using a cure found by the tenno in regor's labs(which was a very lucky one-off thing don't expect it to work again)

Phantom debt, shadow debt, something like dat

[dense herald]

is the first mission on the second dream supposed to use you skills the moment it has the energy?

I really want to know if it's supposed to do that or if it's a bug

[iron tiger]

Man that origin is actually lamer than I thought it would be

I was expecting like cult stuff

[iron tiger]

Wdym

[tall echo]

There's also the gradivus dilemma which decided if mars belongs to corpus or grineer

[eager dragon]

Not gonna lie a corpus mars sounds insane

[dense herald]

the quest the second dream, I can't use skills because the moment I have it what ever uses a skill without my input

so I run out of energy and each time i get enough to use a skill it once again uses it without my input

even just standing doing nothing

[iron tiger]

That does sound like a bug

Get a recording of it?

And then go to warframe forms and report it

[iron tiger]

I can’t even imagine that the grineer aesthetic suits mars so perfectly

[analog glade]

Arid corpus?

[iron tiger]

Ngl I hope we get a Sedna tileset some day, a cold grineer tile would go so hard actually

[iron tiger]

😭 that sounds so weird

[analog glade]

you know, while not lore, I really do think Corpus could use another variant. Maybe a winter one for all their cold tiles.

[vale bane]

The grineer get so much love lmfao

[pale cedar]

Corpus could’ve had Mars if they won the Gravidus Dilema

[analog glade]

But they didn't, because Clem

[past halo]

On a scale of one to ten, how disappointed would Valdur be when he sees what his kind has become in the far future

[analog glade]

who is Valdur again?

[eager dragon]

Yes

[past halo]

The ancient Grineer commander from the Old Peace

And yeah he would just shake his head and sigh

[dense herald]

I finished the second dream and yup the operator really needs a visual update, it looks like we got into a fight with ugly and lost

but a question towards the end after we finish doing the creation we get asked a series of questions did the early story beats tell us what those mean?

like I don't remember learning about no ship with us on it

[analog glade]

that is the ten-zero

you learn more about it as we go on

[dense herald]

so we weren't supposed to know about what was talked about at the end of second dream

[analog glade]

more of a hint to what it means. we still only know a portion of what the whole of Ten-zero was

[eager dragon]

You can make them look half-decent, hopefully the remaster with the Old Piece will make this easier

[torn valley]

Where can you get the clothing / accessories like those??

[analog glade]

https://tenor.com/view/platinum-gif-27163628

[eager dragon]

And money for Tennogen and Prime stuff

[torn valley]

Awesome

[analog glade]

i dont have much tennogen op stuff. most of it is the main purchasable.

this is her regular look.

[dense herald]

the issue is the free stuff is bare bones

[eager dragon]

I find it funny that I can immediately recognise the hair as Kaya's due to the hairclip

[analog glade]

yea, i got rusalka's as my drifters

[eager dragon]

I kept my Drifter as close as possible but with the reverse hair color to symbolise the difference in their personalities.

[iron tiger]

Why did albrecht go to 1999 and not like 1182

[analog glade]

plague year.

useable resources

[iron tiger]

He used those to make the vessels?

[silk atlas]

Nuclear power

[analog glade]

well Helminth at least.

[silk atlas]

Nah, just the Protoframe stuff

[pale cedar]

Because 1999 was the “place of the beginning”

[iron tiger]

Yes, the orokin destroyed all records of old earth before then, iirc

[eager dragon]

We don't know but my theory is that, with the Techrot originating there, by setting of the reactor and thus not letting the Techrot become a Global problem it creates a paradoxical loop (as Orokin did not form thus) that kept Wally at bay for long enough (since he's tied to a strand of Khra due to his finger).

Just a theory though.

[pale cedar]

I do doubt 1182 had bombs

[silk atlas]

Definitely not nuclear.

[analog glade]

also 1182. Burn the witch

[silk atlas]

He needed nuclear energy.

[iron tiger]

That’s a good theory because the strands of khra bind him a in time loop

[eager dragon]

The only question is if the Techrot spread from holvania or simply appeared there first (and was dormant in other places).

'Cause if it's the latter, that throws the entire theory into disarray

[iron tiger]

I mean gunpowder was a medieval invention

[analog glade]

did DE cause the Techrot in the first place. or did they simply use something from somewhere else?

[pale cedar]

Nukes weren’t though

[tall echo]

Why

[silk atlas]

Nuclear.

[iron tiger]

You just said bombs 💣

Not ☢️

[silk atlas]

Reactor wasn't even a bomb but eh it's a creative liberty so whatever

[tall echo]

The wf time loop is a true loop, the nuke never happens

[pale cedar]

Can you blow up a reactor?

[silk atlas]

...what?

[silk atlas]

They don't really explode, afaik, no. They just get really hot and irradiated

[tall echo]

Well they could maybe go boom if something goes very wrong

[silk atlas]

Funny thing is that a better nuclear bomb has less radiation, since radiation is, for the purposes of a bomb, a waste of the energy.

[tall echo]

Like for example a techrot babau ripping the main thing apart

[eager dragon]

That still wouldn't 'cause an explosion though. A meltdown yes, but not a nuke explosion, they work in different principles 🤷‍♂️

[analog glade]

And its a reactor. but is it fission or fusion?

[silk atlas]

I think the absolute worst that'd happen is that you'd just get a giant puff of irradiated steam.

[eager dragon]

Fission for sure

[iron tiger]

If anything can can get hot enough quick enough it’ll become a bomb

[silk atlas]

I severealy doubt it's fusion yah

[eager dragon]

A fusion reactor in 1999 would be wild and would also have zero safety concerns (atleast explosion wise) 'cause it would just turn off

[tall echo]

Maybe the ORO put in an emergency boom button or smth idk

[silk atlas]

It doesn't get hot quickly though. You gotta let all the water evaporate and then it'd just eat through the containment structure.

[iron tiger]

How do nuclear reactors work? I thought that fusion and fission was separate from nuclear energy

[tall echo]

Fusion and fusion

[iron tiger]

🤫

[eager dragon]

Fission breaks apart the atoms, and uses heavy elements like Uranium. Fusion combines atoms and uses hydrogen isotopes (Deuterium and Trituim) to replicate the sort of energy generation found in the sun.

[analog glade]

fusion is also suposed to be explosively safe.

[silk atlas]

Fission is what's done to generate nuclear energy. Basically you just smash atoms together to get them to break, those smash into each other to break apart more, then you use that energy generated as heat to make water into steam. Loose protons and electrons get shot off and so that's how you get alpha radiation

[iron tiger]

you need inward pressure and heat for fusion. It by function is not inclined to explode but rather implode

If that makes sense

[analog glade]

collapse more readily.

[tall echo]

These sure are words

[eager dragon]

You'd think you'd get used to it considering how much Ballas likes to talk 🤷‍♂️

[tall echo]

He just uses fancy language not science

[eager dragon]

True, I love how eloquently he speaks, but when you dig into it Jargon isn't that far of from his vocabulary. Jargon in regards to the English language if you will.

[edgy basin]

I've a q regarding Sentient reproduction

Was it only those who crossed the void back to Sol during the Old War who became sterile?

Or was it the entire sentient collective on the way to Tau?

[analog glade]

any void touched sentient.

[eager dragon]

Yes. The Sentients back in Tau should be fertile

[analog glade]

so those on the way back, and maybe those on tau touched by demons

[eager dragon]

They didn't cross the Void when travelling to Tau for the first time, thus they should be fine

[tall echo]

Thing is that I'm not a native english speaker so that+smart words scares me

[eager dragon]

Honestly neither am I but I love that sort of speech

[analog glade]

I am, and the words scare me.

[tall echo]

Flowery language I can work with I read many fantasy books

[edgy basin]

Neat. Just wanted to check sources first, I've a concept for a Sentient Adversary system and wanted to make sure that 'Tau-Borne' actually made sense.

[analog glade]

I guess the question is. is Natah and the new sentient the only two who are void touched?

[edgy basin]

Ik Hunhow makes references to having a 'void-scarred womb' so he'd also be included

[proper barn]

I dont think Adis is void touched.

[analog glade]

yea, void scarred. but with the void lugger comment I think our new friend is differant.

[tall echo]

The differ ant

[eager dragon]

Every Sentient who travelled through the Tau relay is scarred

[edgy basin]

Suddenly adds so much more context as to why they were devastated at the execution of the overidden hive-kin.

[eager dragon]

So every Sentient in the Origin system

They can reproduce only 'cause Kuva heals them

[edgy basin]

That was only known to the Sentient of Earth, no?

[tall echo]

*when

[tall echo]

Yes

[analog glade]

for now, dun dun dun

[tall echo]

Well it figured that out by accident

[edgy basin]

Shortly before Gara coca-cola, espuna'd it all over the plains

[analog glade]

I do wonder what the eidolon on the plains looked like before the transformation into its form now. Maybe it looked more like Adis' mech suit. Lotus also piloted a smaller mech suit. Maybe hunhow too.

Also makes me think that Pragasa might be the same.

[edgy basin]

I mean it's physical remains are scattered across the entire region, it's likely it might have easily been the size of a Murex

[edgy basin]

I'm not even sure what Pragasa is atp. She definitely is dead, but not in the sense of being an Eidolon.

[analog glade]

those also might be murex, or parts of other sentient ships.

[edgy basin]

I mean there is a bunch of Orphixes there too post New War

[analog glade]

Kind of what I see, is a self-sacrifice like harrow, attaching the smaller part permanently into the larger.

DE does like repeating themes

[tall echo]

Eidolon are undead, praghasa is brain dead

[analog glade]

True, but we don't know the specifics of what makes an eidolon either yet.

[tall echo]

Both eidolons we do see got exposed to a LOT of void energy at once

[analog glade]

Erra died, but hes definitely not an eidolon, he is an amalgam.

[edgy basin]

I was under the impression that their original machine protocol kicked in as a self-preservation application.

[tall echo]

So it might just be dying to sudden void overexposure

[analog glade]

maybe, that would explain lotus as well.

[edgy basin]

Eidolons are then what, a void-echo of the sentient being?

[analog glade]

the only hint

[tall echo]

The jump from tau mightn't've been enough void exposure to eidolon praghasa

[tall echo]

Maybe

Keep in mind that that's just a theory
A g-

[analog glade]

side adjacent to that, makes me wonder about half-sentient Ballas.

[tall echo]

Unnecessary reminder that amalgam ballas' ribcage is slightly visible

[analog glade]

Wasn't that about where he got stabbed?

[tall echo]

Bit higher but yeh

The replaced bits start roughly in the stab area

[edgy basin]

he wasn't stabbed enough if you ask me

god i love Ballas for how much of an unrepentant piece of crap he is as a villain

[shell spear]

Y'all think we'd be able to pilot the big ass sentient robot

[edgy basin]

Plausible, it seems to be akin to Transference but with a serious weakness.

Plus the events of WITW means Tenno can inhabit giant vessels anyways

Hunhow commands his sentient forces in a similar manner, where they're all an aspect / fragment of his existence

[shell spear]

Wonder if Hunhow will ever rise again from the depths of Uranus

Or if he's retired

[lilac aspen]

We must get the farmer back to his farm

[edgy basin]

Hunhow seems content with how his hand was dealt with

The New War made him realize a lot regarding himself and his relationship with both the Tenno and Natah / Lotus.

It also cost him his son, all for Ballas' vainglory.

[shell spear]

Big fish still sends Stalker after our ass tho

Or does Stalker move on his own now

[edgy basin]

I like to imagine he drops the kid off at Hunhow's spot to babysit while he goes hunt the tenno

[vague geyser]

What do I pick?

Pls 😭

[silk atlas]

Doesn't matter

[eager dragon]

Doesn't matter, who do you like more

[silk atlas]

It's just some story flavor and you can swap after anyway

[eager dragon]

(I chose the kid 'cause I like her more than the Drifter)

[vague geyser]

Oh, I see

I will go for the kid then

[verbal flume]

Hello everyone, I just want to apologize because I just now saw that I got hacked and I’m sorry that my account spammed the chat with the nonsense

[eager dragon]

I also see almost no customization of the Operatir, lol

[vague geyser]

||I ask cuz someone said to me that in this adventure i will have a choise that changes the story||

[eager dragon]

There is one permanent choice in the quest and it's at the very end.

It's also just a very, very small cosmetic change

So it doesn't ultimately matter much

[vague geyser]

Ohh, ty, I will see that

[proper barn]

the dialogs are SLIGHLTY different but other than that personal choice.

[vague geyser]

And now?😭

[analog glade]

You can reskin her for plat later.

but the name sticks

[vague geyser]

Is there any impact in the story?

[analog glade]

nope

[normal mountain]

Not yet, anyways
Probably never will, tbh

[normal mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-balance-perfect-gif-25200656

[analog glade]

https://tenor.com/view/gym-scale-pay-gif-14141614

[violet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-movie-avengers-infinity-war-gif-18122928

[odd prairie]

that meme implies kahl could think that far ahead

kahl doesnt think he does

[tall echo]

Yeah it's the other way around

[hexed oxide]

redoing a quest with a newbie

ballas says "how can you love those demons after what they've done to you ?"

and margulis replies "love sees not with the eyes but with the mind"

so that margulis jumpscare was not some made up thing, under what circumstance did that happen ?

[sly pagoda]

The Tenno had issues controlling their power.

[hexed oxide]

oh, i see

[sly pagoda]

I believe one of the original reasons for transferrence was so they could interact via a platform that could contain that. Naturally Ballas had other ideas.

[hexed oxide]

i do remember the dialogue from the sacrifice, something about building vessels around their afflictions

[frail musk]

Can I be educated on lore please?

[tall echo]

Maybe

[frail musk]

Apparently must be educated

[analog glade]

what about the lore?

[frail musk]

I was in an earlier discussion where I drew conclusions about the sequence of who came first Umbra or Prime Excalibur

[glacial bough]

Prime did

[frail musk]

Nidus was in there too but I include him because I thought he was the experiment/test run/ Patient 0

[tall echo]

Regular excal was first

[frail musk]

Game or story wise? Or both?

[analog glade]

both

[glacial bough]

Excalibur is the only defined "first" warframe

[sly pagoda]

Umbra is basically Ballas left some awareness purely for cruelty

[proper barn]

Umbra is way later. You use the IPad umbra found. Okay Umbra was turned into Umbra cuz he wanted to expose Ballas for telling Hunhow the warframes are piloted by tenno.

So Umbra (as a warframe) would have to exist after both the warframes and the tenno piloting the warframes. @frail musk

[frail musk]

…

I did not pick up that Umbra found the Vitruvian

[proper barn]

Its in his cell

[frail musk]

I thought Ballas was just hiding there

[proper barn]

No that's Umbras Cell.

Also Umbra was stuck In the moon

Until we bring THE MOON out of the Void.

[lilac aspen]

Umbra was put in the time out jail and forced to relive his final moments of killing his son

[frail musk]

That’s what I thought both Ballas and Umbra were on the moon

[proper barn]

Ballas isn't.

[frail musk]

And then everything happened when the moon was pulled out of the void

[lilac aspen]

Ballas was Ballasing it somewhere else
I don’t think we ever know where he was hiding all this time

[proper barn]

Nah I would say Ballas is someone else And just hidding.

[frail musk]

I admit I’m not an expert on lore obv

[proper barn]

Also Umbra dies at the ruins of his old house in earth.

[analog glade]

thats not confirmed.

[proper barn]

It's literally the same tree and view.

[frail musk]

The tree is the same but the similarity ends there

I dunno about the view but it’s been a while

[analog glade]

you could say the same for the lotus flowers, they're all the same model so they must all be the same flower as the one in cetus.

the tree looks the same yes, but time passed between when he was turned into umbra, and when the events of the game happen.

[proper barn]

Lotus flowers?

[analog glade]

from the new stuff.