lore-discussion

[sly pagoda]

I would assume it’s the cables that hang from her helmet when shes not in her own chair thing.

[brazen seal]

I wonder why we have an alarm to wake up

Operator had to leave the .... "Dream" in both important parts

[restive river]

Somatics:

[restive river]

It is

[restive river]

Trauma?
Loid being scared?

[brazen seal]

Loid doesn't seem to be closer the second time tho

Trauma might be

[restive river]

Oh I meant in the new peace

Since he’s very worried about us there

We love our newly adoptive uncle/dad/butler :)

[humble sierra]

Could be a time limit for safety too

"You have been playing unlocking traumatic memories for over an hour. Please don't forget to take a break."

[lean garden]

I see we havent adjusted to Adrian Botts new comments huh

[void wigeon]

Just hope the indifference doesn’t take him

[humble sierra]

Wonder how much the Lotus skins will have an impact on the Old Peace cutscenes

That Margulis jumpscare probably loses a slight bit of weight if you're using the Margulis skin

[restive river]

Lol scroll down from that message
They linked your message about Adrian’s comments

[lean garden]

time is a transient concept I do not enjoy

[restive river]

I think it could actually be scarier

[restive river]

Same here

[humble sierra]

ngl I don't care if they have details wrong in the story when they've been working on it for 10+ years. if they have a way to explain it that sounds good, it works for me

[restive river]

Yeah, I do wonder how much was preplanned in the bible and how much they’ve written around
It def helps that the time scale of everything is so vast that the sentients going first can make sense

Especially with how long it’d take them
Which hey! If we do find out what real world star system Tau is then we could approximate that

Considering the sentients would likely be going near the speed of light and not actual light speed

[timid crescent]

I assumed cuz they’re under water and need to breathe

[hoary vapor]

...man i realized that Hollvania's doomed the moment Drifter stops the loop. And that's assuming the Indifference doesn't exist

Was hoping On-lyne could be alive well beyond 1999, but i think they're destined to be dead by the actual techrot if the Drifter stops the loop..

[restive river]

We do suffocate in space
But also we likely can’t die from either
But going unconscious in that state likely isn’t good either

I do wonder why we can’t just use a respirator or something

We use one in tau apparently
Heck we have some cosmetically

[timid crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/i-don't-know-idk-idk-about-that-gif-7336250873949261946

[humble sierra]

OnLyne could also be safe in another country tbf

[strange plinth]

i mean. the techrot's going to do its thing, which (eventually) leads to the radiation wars
but i'm not really sure what you mean about on-lyne

[hoary vapor]

Problem is that the techrot is going to spread across the globe according to the Drifter. Which causes the nukes to go off via Radiation Wars. Which means that the boy band may not survive either the outbreak or the Wars...

[restive river]

Well they won’t survive anyway just cause
Time
And
Aging

[humble sierra]

yeah, unless ORO stands for "OnLyne Revival Organization" and the original Orokin were just OnLyne and their biggest fangirls (including, of course, Rebecca F.)

[hoary vapor]

I'LL DO IT! I'll do it for Packet's sake! We can immortalize them!

Soon, Ballas and Margulis will too wear DJ RoM glasses and Harddrive's jacket!

[rotund egret]

Guys lotus is comprised

I had to put the video at .25 to find this it’s literally one frame

[jaunty oasis]

Unclear if it’s lotus or us or the void

[humble sierra]

It's Margulis

[restive river]

Well that’s Margulis

[humble sierra]

She was blinded

It's unclear why we see her, though

[modern steppe]

apparently that's what it looks like

Malenia Scarlet Rot blindness looknig ahh

[restive river]

My guess?
Our memories of Tau were sealed away same as the rest and we’re breaking past barriers Margulis put up

[brazen seal]

prob just another trauma from the tenno abt what happened to margulis

[stiff fable]

Probably the Orokin repressed our memories

[glossy dew]

We're seeing the past so maybe that's why

[restive river]

Or them ye

[humble sierra]

PTSD? Mama guilt tripping us for what we did to her? Maybe it's Face ID to access the memories of the dream?

[stiff fable]

We see it because Lotus is processing our memories for us

And eyeless Margulius is also in those memories

[rotund egret]

It happens when she connects with us it’s definitely not us, it’s either lotus margulis or the man in the wall imo

[restive river]

Margulis did seal away our memories so

[stiff fable]

like, the entire point of the scene is how Lotus is helping us relive these memories of the Old Peace

So it's our memories

[restive river]

It is unclear where Margulis is during the old peace afaik

[stiff fable]

Dead, almost certainly

[brazen seal]

quite likely, dead

[restive river]

Most probably

[rotund egret]

Yeah this makes more sense

[humble sierra]

Yeah it's not the first time we see the Lotus in a form we're not meant to see her as for a brief moment

[brazen seal]

imagine if when reb said the story is going into a dark place
we see margulis execution

[restive river]

Jade light atomization

I mean the descriptions we have and what’s been told to us has already painted enough of a picture

[humble sierra]

There's an Easter egg where instead of HoloLotus after the Sacrifice, you see Natah

[restive river]

We don’t need to see her execution cause we’ve heard it and know what happens
However seeing who blinded Margulis is way more intriguing and relevant to that image

[stiff fable]

there's just a flicker of light and then with a BAM where there used to be a person there's just a thin red mist

[analog tinsel]

I was listening to the easy Allies interview. It's interesting to see them frame the whole thing as "Drifter is off doing his own thing in 1999, and this is what the operator has been up to"

they basically just casually say that the endgame is going to involve drifter re-entering our timeline. Not sure if both the operator and drifter will cross paths in Tau in 2026, but the implication is that at the very least Drifter is also going to Tau. Presumably this is what the "entrati side-story" will involve.

the whole "entrati side-story" thing is sounding like it's going to just be adding a new area to 1999, new story cutscenes, and presumably a new activity to get the new warframe.

[humble sierra]

Sorry, I don't quite understand— how does that imply Drifter is going to Tau? That makes it sound separate.

[paper mountain]

Drifter and their troop of dubiously stable half-frames showing up in tau to remind the sentients who is at the top of the food chain

[analog tinsel]

I think the exact quote is literally "Drifter is also going to Tau"

[humble sierra]

oh lmao

[restive river]

Problem: unless you get Kaya’s good ending the Protos are stuck in 1999
So I doubt they’ll do that

[analog tinsel]

basically, the implication is that the story of the drifter, Albrecht, The Operator, and Lotus, are all converging on Tau in 2026

[restive river]

The sentients are victims of the Orokin just as much as the Tenno and Warframes are

[humble sierra]

Plus they said they were wanting to move away from Protos and 1999 for a bit-- the reason we're getting the Devil's Triad is because the response was so huge, but otherwise they probably weren't planned

[restive river]

My guess is in Tau we will have sentient allies

[stiff fable]

bold of you to assume there are any Sentients still alive

[restive river]

It seems the devil’s triad may be in the labs too but we will see

[restive river]

That could be the case yeah, it has been radio silence since the old war

[analog tinsel]

honestly, I think the end-goal is going to be to de-couple the protoframes from 1999. Not in the sense that the ones in 1999 are going to just move freely outside of 1999, but I think something is going to happen narratively that protoframes are going to just be walking around in the present day.

not to say protoframes aren't cool just for what they are, but they are also very much a moneymaker. They've effectively taken a genie out of the bottle, and it's not going back in lol.

it's an extremely effective way to make old warframes relevant and "cool" again, make some money off said relevance with gemini skins, and also if said frames also happen to need a rework, a good excuse to rework them too lol.

don't be surprised if something cataclysmic happens at the end of the 2026 tau update that basically ends up being the reason why a group of protoframes suddenly started setting up shop in say........Plains of Eidolon, or Fortuna, etc

[restive river]

It helps they uh. Reworked the old frames that needed it too :p

I’d def say the problem with just
Bringing protos to the origin system is how
Cause again, Kaya’s story is the only one that involves time travel
Now they could set it up so if you get that ending with her then it proceeds but there’s no boolean for that afaik and would lock that behind getting her good ending
And if they just ignore her story then that does a disservice to her, no point in figuring out time travel Kaya cause we just did it for you
Like
No??

Now that is just one character but I doubt they’ll do that
If the Protos appear in the origin system era it’ll be temporary
Also like
All protos do need to be from 1999 because of how long it takes to become a proto, the devil’s triad does seem to be more so a special case purely because they’re connected to an Albrecht side story (and def are from 1999)

[stiff fable]

I mean, it's entirely possible for Albrecht to have tested the protoframe creation process in the modern era

[restive river]

It is

But we have yet to see that

[paper mountain]

I think Albrecht

[stiff fable]

or we have freak accidents where people find a Warframe Helminth infusion and take it to cure themselves of a technocyte infection

[restive river]

If there are modern day protos somewhere then uh. Where
Also how do we stop them from fully transforming?
Also they would have fully transformed by now since Albrecht would have made them during the Old War

[jaunty oasis]

Kinda sounded to me like Albrecht took what the orokin did in their experiments and slowed it way the hell down

[restive river]

The Protos are safe cause they’re in a timeloop and have us

[stiff fable]

Nah, not necessarily

How long it takes for a person to succumb is unknown

[restive river]

More so minorly altered it than slowed it

[stiff fable]

Flare could have lived thousands of years as a proto before it happened

[restive river]

Well they got injected in 98
Are doing okay into 99
And will likely transform in the 2000’s

[restive river]

Didn’t they essentially hibernate then come out as full temple?

[stiff fable]

we actually don't know

[restive river]

Even with Albrecht’s alterations it will occur

[stiff fable]

Flare just says they'll make it to Hale-Bopp at some point

[restive river]

Even if it takes a few years at best
It will happen

[stiff fable]

But it sounds like they think it'll happen AFTER they transform

[restive river]

Again, the protos are safe from succumbing because they have the loop and us
Outside of the loop they all fully transform and all but one die

It may also be dependent on the individual for how fast it goes

Like if they’re infected already vs not at all it could go faster or slower by an unknown amount of time

Regardless we don’t have a solid way to push back against it
So if modern protos exist they would likely have already transformed since it’s been a heck of a long time since the old war
And if any new ones are made then their clock is ticking and we can realistically only do so much with our current info

[stiff fable]

There's no indication that the protos are at immediate risk of succumbing, except Eleanor

[restive river]

Ofc this could change, we could find a way to stabilize a protoframe in their in-between state

[restive river]

Which her situation may also be due to her psychic abilities and being the most infected

She taps into like
Everything around her

[stiff fable]

Yeah it is, explicitly

[restive river]

Do we know in 98 when the protos were injected?

We know the comic is when they get their final one iirc?

[stiff fable]

it's never said

[restive river]

at most I’d guess a proto has. What, 2 maybe 3 years?
Enough time for a volunteer or anyone to become one, join the fray then succumb

With our help, possibly longer?

[stiff fable]

we genuinely don't know

It's almost certainly working on "Warframe memory rules"

If a Warframe has a strong enough memory/goal/bond etc they can stay stable indefinitely

eg Jade

[restive river]

That’s a good point too, maybe a proto can sustain itself purely out of strong emotions

Which I do think could be due to void attunement
Void + emotion and all that
Since that doesn’t happen in other infested cases

Maybe the people Albrecht chose fit the bill for what he observed with sapient frames?

Minus the ones who found him
Kaya

[stiff fable]

Thing is, the Hex were on a path to crash out before the Drifter shows up

[restive river]

Without the Drifter they’d be toast in more ways than one

Things were waining for sure
Tensions were higher

Maybe it’s also the connection they all have with eachother and drifter helps too

[tulip axle]

so uh, can't remember this one correctly now but, did we ever get a clue to what exactly Lotus dealt on with Wally?
It's hazy but I think it was mentioned somewhere along the story, but was it just that? Lotus or someone else saying that she also had her deal and that's it?

[lean garden]

did we ever get a clue to what exactly Lotus dealt on with Wally?
No
I think it was mentioned somewhere along the story, but was it just that? Lotus or someone else saying that she also had her deal and that's it?
Because this never happened

[strange plinth]

there's nothing saying she has a deal with wally afaik

[radiant crown]

Is there any lore behind arcanes?

[lean garden]

Make warframe go brrrrr

[restive river]

They exist same as mods

[radiant crown]

Yeah but someone made the mods so i wondered who made arcanes

[paper mountain]

The mods have kuva in them I think. Which is how they work. They just gaslight your weapons into being a little different

[stiff fable]

they're little pieces of sentients iirc

but it's more implied and not explicit

[hoary vapor]

Do you think that, while the Drifter has peers to call friends, the Operator is pretty much lonely with no friend group of his own? Not just the protagonist Operator but also other operators. As in the protag Operator only has Ordis and Lotus

[humble sierra]

They've got Loid now, too

[lean garden]

are you thinking of the arcane machine?

[stiff fable]

no

Exilus adapters are explicitly sentient bits that we graft onto our Warframes and weapons

(Regor does it and it lets Hunhow talk to us for the first time)

Arcanes share an aesthetic with those, and the earliest arcanes were tied to the Plains Sentient

[sage moat]

new socratetris video!

he's on the "old peace is an alternate timeline" train which i disagree with

but he has the super hot take that adis is natah from that alternate timeline

and. i disagree!
but that's SO COOL

[tulip axle]

it would be cool if it were, eternism and such would make it a possibility if DE wanted it to

but it'd be dissapointing too

[sage moat]

he also believes that the dax rebellion is caused by the orokin attempting to downsize and replace the dax with the tenno. which i think is an alright theory

[strange plinth]

yeah that's plausible i guess

[stiff fable]

It's a neat theory, but also wrong

Warframes were military equipment

Most Orokin wouldn't have access to them

[tulip axle]

hoping Dsiege comes out with another of his lore vids soon, he usually has good takes imo

But I was wondering, regarding the Orokin fall, that's good and all, but they never did cover (in a relative way at least iirc) what happens with other, hmmm, races right? Best we get is that Grendel ended up gorging on an Orokin that escaped, then we got ostrons and the caste that ended up becoming the corpus right?

[strange plinth]

corpus already existed

separate from the orokin

[stiff fable]

it's all present in the game already

[tulip axle]

Parvos just ended up as their CEO of sorts then, would be good to have some expansion there, I mean, the grineer, again, iirc, were created as force labor by the orokin but can't remember anything about the corpus and how they came to be

[strange plinth]

parvos founded it

[tulip axle]

Right, we go through SOME factions and people in Origin, plus the other missions that present great characters like Arlo, well, "great" hah, but thought there'd be more out there, something akin to '99 comics

[misty salmon]

there's lots of stuff on Parvos, it's a bit scattered about, but it's very there.

[lean garden]

he usually has good takes imo
Like the part where he calls everything wally?

[misty salmon]

The statue in the corpus ship that eats your spare granum crowns covers the founding lore (and drops it in the codex)

[tulip axle]

yeah, I keep putting coins in that thing everytime I go right by it, starting to hate that I always kept passing it by lol

[strange plinth]

i didn't know that statue took crowns until someone mentioned it here lmao
thrown 6 in so far

[humble sierra]

I think there's 11 lore slates?

[tulip axle]

Frankly I kind of understand him in that regard, before Wally the Tenno were at best crazy kids with split personality, but then you have this eldritch entity that made a deal with you and ended up giving you nigh-immortality, tbh, the nickname "indifference" seems really overreaching on Wally, he's awfully emotional most of the time he appears lol

so it's a great point to contend, but yeah, the whole setting is much more than just Wally

[sage moat]

dsiege has like the worst lore takes ive seen lol

my favorite warframe loretuber is warframeflo

i like the parts where he says things that are proven wrong by the exact clip he's showing. i don't mean "polluted histories" supposedly meaning its another timeline i mean like "our friend's name is adin" and it says adis in the subtitles

#1 SlopTuber

[steel compass]

Warframe loretubers are over-rated

Just debating the lore with others and not having a single viewpoint is more fun

[humble sierra]

I've been thinking about becoming a recaptuber of sorts tbh

Like, only citing specific sources and doing as little interpretation as possible because of how much information there is

[steel compass]

I think that is a nice way of doing it

Like doing a news channel without letting your opinion/interpretation bleed into the actual facts and information

[stiff fable]

Fwiw that's basically impossible

[steel compass]

I mean, at least letting people know it's just your view point is also an option

Or telling the facts first, and in the end telling the story how you see it

Cause a lot of people take some stuff as gospel

[tulip axle]

well, that's the thing isn't it? You can check whomever you want understanding that it's just that, a point of view, backed by some facts but not necessarily the whole truth, more so when not even DE has wrapped the game lol, don't know if Berserk will finish first or warframe, JK berserk will

[steel compass]

Berserk?

What about one piece lmao

[tulip axle]

but onto loretubers, I'm gonna go watch those two you mentioned @sage moat

[steel compass]

But yeah, i'm not judging people's tastes or understanding of the lore

[sage moat]

just watch socratetris lol

[steel compass]

Like who am i to talk about this in the first place? Just enjoy what you enjoy

And whatever you feel is right, is usually the right thing anyways

[tulip axle]

at least Oda is still around lol, but yeah, until DE comes and says here's the latest hypetrain for y'all to jump into 🚋

[steel compass]

God bless his soul

[proper barn]

@steel compass hello rising Rebellion Falcon.

[steel compass]

Hello hollow knight bug?

[proper barn]

Sure

[tall echo]

Bug is not very specific for hollow knight

[steel compass]

Lmao i just, glitched out for a sec

Ygo player as well?

[proper barn]

Yeah.

[steel compass]

If you want we can continue this chat elsewhere, the lore discussion isn't the place for a Raidraptor talk xd

[silk atlas]

Me realizing that they can use Aya to justify us getting look or gear or whatever in TOP when they finally add in Tau in full

[brittle siren]

Especially when we have Wyrm

[lean garden]

aya distillate lets go

[tall echo]

??

[brittle siren]

Clearly someone haven't read Hollow Knight lore

[tall echo]

How is that relevant to hollow knight creatures being 99% bugs

[brittle siren]

I was talking about that Hollow Knight Universe have being like Wyrm that not a bug at all

And even the queen of Hallownest is not even bug, she a tree 😭

[tall echo]

Ok

Still not relevant

[brittle siren]

You said "bug is not very specific"
I said "especially when there is a Wyrm" mean I'm adding to your point lmao. There are some bug like being is not even bug to begin with (I don't count spider here)

[sage moat]

warframe

[brittle siren]

Also Vinny avatar seem to be inspired from the Vessel (or more precisely all of the Pale King child), which also not a bug, but born from a tree, a Wyrm and the void

And we haven't even touch the gods that beyond Hallownest

[brittle siren]

Ik just wanna yap lore

[proper barn]

it is from a vessel maker yes.

[brittle siren]

Do you still have the link to it, or google will show it instantly?

[proper barn]

i'll DM You

[leaden laurel]

If you yap. I'll listen. I have little knowledge. Honestly. I finished Hex and was so confused and I asked my clan and learnt that The Indifference was a real character. I honestly thought it was the operator just Trama Hallucinating. And they were like "no that's a real dude, dude"

[brittle siren]

Yeah the Indifference (aka Wally, it's a community name stem from "Man in the Wall") is very real

[leaden laurel]

So I learnt

[brittle siren]

He basically just want to find his finger and probably want to kill Albrecht and all human

[proper barn]

oh rell even hold wally down for 1000 years

[sage moat]

now theres an argument that in a meta sense the indifference represents the trauma of the operator

but in universe yeah that's like a real tangible thing

[leaden laurel]

Why? And why did he go to the past and and introduced the the Helmith Infestation early? Also, aren't the protoframes F'd because didn't the original Warframes go crazy and become murder crazy cannibals? Because no one except the Drifter can use transference. So once they finish becoming the first warframes, they're gonna go murder crazy again and they don't have all the future space tech to preform transference. Also wasn't transference one way until the trama space kids get stuck halfway in the void anyway? So even in current future day they can't pull out of transference on purpose

[sage moat]

ok lets go one at a time

[viscid aspen]

https://youtu.be/S_3EMeb59wY

I don't know if this has been posted before but they seemingly confirm the Tenno got to Tau before they emerged back into the Origin System and the Orokin found them and thats how the alliance in the Old Peace happened

[leaden laurel]

I also don't know the purpose of Loid and Albrecht making the smart animals

[sage moat]

Why does wally want his finger? because if you lost your finger wouldn't you want it back?
Why did albrecht go to the past? To escape wally (it didn't work)
Yes the protoframes are gonna go crazy but not cannibals i dont know where you got that. most warframes dont even have mouths
Other people besides the drifter can use transference, just no one else in 1999
No transference wasn't one way, its implied normal people pilotted necramechs

[proper barn]

they got high

[sage moat]

albrecht got high and thought "I went into the void and it mirrored me, if i put animals in it, will it mirror them and become dumber?" so he did that but it didn't work. then he did it a bunch more and it didn't work. so he thought, in his ego, that the void only liked "special" or "unique" things, so he took endangered and unique animals and sent them to the void. sort of as an "F U" from the void, it made them smart so they could suffer

[proper barn]

they also got high and did it.

[normal mountain]

Well, the Rhino Prime codex has a story about a feral frame (presumably Rhino) who went and ate someone

[proper barn]

Loid couldn't hand.

[sage moat]

it gave one depression and made another murder the depressed one's wife

[proper barn]

also we defeat wally with the power of old man yaoi.

[blissful merlin]

OH?!?!?!👀👀👀

[leaden laurel]

We turned his finger into a mid level head decoration for a mid event. Was that event canon?

[sage moat]

we did not

[misty salmon]

fairly certain that that is just an artistic representation of murmur hands

the real finger is in a reliquary drive somewhere

[sage moat]

its not his actual finger. we have a copy of his actual finger in our railjacks

not the original, just a clone/copy of it

[misty salmon]

or the reliquary drive one is just a model too... not sure I want to know where Albrecht stuck the original.

[proper barn]

ehhh they kind say that.

[sage moat]

im watchign the interview rn

i SHOULD be sleeping for my college orientation but i woke up and nothing to induce sleep is working

[dense nest]

unless DE change things it should be after zariman back for the first time since it only took days before orokin find it "The lost ship re-emerged from the Void days later and was recovered. The Orokin discovered that only the children had survived the voyage " from rell comic

[brazen seal]

getting hyped for the next update will surely help

[sage moat]

the current theory is just that They Sent Another Ship And This Time It Worked

which im not a massive fan of but like. no way the zariman worked when its been supposedly phasing in and out of the void

when all the adult crew is dead

oh nevermind this interview has megan saying clear as day "Yes they got to tau"

"Zariman came from sol going to tau, got stuck, tenno... stuff happened. and then... did they get to tau?"
"yes"

exact quote

which... HUH? HOW DID THEY GET BACK?

she also implies the sentients are pre-zariman which CAN work that's not as big of a bombshell

[dense nest]

probably 1st void jump> orokin get tenno> solar rail >old war> then peace treaty?

[misty salmon]

My theory is that it's somewhere post Mag Prime codex, the counterattack was "successful" the sentient rebellion got put down for a time and the orokin re-established "peace", sent some tenno (or at least warframes/whatever is needed for a tenno to manifest) and grineer over as a peacekeeping force.

still working why the Dax appear to be the current local rebels, but maybe they suffered under the independent sentient rule and refuse to work with them further.

[sage moat]

"the tauron focus school"

a... a new focus school? not just expansions on abilities?

[dense nest]

probabbly like soldier sometimes they still see the sentient as enemy

[sage moat]

this graphic makes some sense at least

[misty salmon]

it does appear to be a new focus school plus ultimates and maybe another retune for the existing ones. I might even have the existing ones all fully unlocked by release.

[pine orchid]

I was rewatching the gameplay video with my wife again ystd, and we thought it was a bit weird there's no allied Dax on our side or at least we didn't see any
all the Dax we saw on the field wore the yellow anarchist wraps didnt they?

[brazen seal]

I do think the new focus school will be some sort of "fused" to the ones we already have to give them their ultimates

[sage moat]

oh so my theory is that tauron is a "bonus" school. you pick your main focus school and then you also pick tauron and tauron has special boosters to your main focus school. maybe it grants 1 ability and the other schools are expanded with the fourth (your ultimate)

yeah we're thinking in the same plane

[brazen seal]

based on the archimedean sentient saying
it looks like it

[sage moat]

oh and tauron is clever if its just fused cause then you don't need to spend as much focus

its not 1.1mil * 5 for each focus school's maxed out ultimate, its just 1.1million for the tauron ability that says "unlock your equipped focus school's ultimate"

[dense nest]

oh my gues we will need focus + something to incentive grind

maybe 1 free for the quest

I also hope with op remaster we finaly can put attatchment and syandana to operator

[sage moat]

oh i agree

[misty salmon]

ehhh, I'd rather not speculate on grind, it's in a weird place lately and I'll probably come across as cynical (which I am :P)

[sage moat]

i also hope that we get an item to eidolon hunt at day

maybe we only get 30 minutes or something i just dont want to wait over an hour to do The Thing I Want To Do

im just really baffled at the idea that the zariman got to tau

[leaden laurel]

During one of the quests you do the Zariman quiz and learn in the void that multiple realities are possible. So the Drifter and the Operator are the same person. One gets saved from the void, one doesn't get saved. Could The Old Peace be along those same lines? The Ship didn't make it to Tau, the ship did make it to Tau?

[sage moat]

the adults were all dead! who drove the ship back!

[sage moat]

wait.

im not a fan of "its an alternate timeline" because that's not how eternalism works but this.
This is kinda how eternalism works

[modern steppe]

Can’t be eternalism since these are supposed to be memories

[sage moat]

the operator's zariman made it to tau, the drifter's didn't?

[modern steppe]

Also it’s Eternalism on a fundamental level but practically speaking it isn’t

Can’t be Drifters since they got stuck in Duviri after some time in the Zariman

[brazen seal]

if the ship did make it to tau
in theory wouldn't exist the tenno

[misty salmon]

shouldn't be the ops either because they got stuck back in the Origin after the accident, and didn't become the Tenno/Warframe pairs until some time later.

[sage moat]

yeah you're right

[modern steppe]

Again these are still memories of the Operator, no matter how unreliable or false it is, it’s still the Operator’s memories

[sage moat]

but then the question remains... how did the zariman get back? if it emerged on tau, who got it back to sol?

did a sentient sacrifice themself? did the kids figure it out?

[modern steppe]

Not to mention that technically speaking that Drifter is staying in 1999 until further notice

[misty salmon]

I don't think the Zariman did get to Tau. I think the Operator got to Tau later, during the war.

[brazen seal]

same

[sage moat]

i really am not a fan of the zariman, the biggest monument to orokin hubris, accomplishing its goal

[modern steppe]

the Zariman wasn’t the only attempt to Tau, the Mag Prime Codex suggests that

[sage moat]

so did megan just misspeak?

[glacial bough]

The Zariman never made it to Tau in any regard

[sage moat]

did she mean "they got to tau" rather than "the zariman got to tau"

[modern steppe]

Yes but at the same time nothing stopping the Orokin from trying again

[brazen seal]

between the stuff happen and they make it to tau happened a lot ig

[modern steppe]

I think that’s a detail we all missed

[misty salmon]

no Megan didn't misspeak... but I think the "they" is the tenno, not the Zariman

[sage moat]

alright im fine with that

[misty salmon]

arguably they also got back from Tau, or at least data did. The Mag Prime codex has an account from after the jump.

[proper barn]

It didn't emerge in tau I dont think.

I think that was clarified later.

[brazen seal]

btw, in the interview megan does say that drifter will go to tau bc the albrecht said in the 1999 "tau is in sight"

[sage moat]

yes!

[brazen seal]

I'm 100% confused on that now

but oh well

[sage moat]

so my theory is that operator and drifter are going to switch repeatedly in Tau Proper

not Old Peace tau, modern day tau. the 2026 tau

[brazen seal]

oh, this type of gameplay in 2026 would be peak NGL

something that only the op/drifter can do on the scenario

[sage moat]

they'll both be there. sometimes operator will emerge to deal with old peace era tech and sometimes drifter will emerge to do warframe-less combat.

it will focus a lot on the dynamic between them and what they think of each other

[misty salmon]

"You must be this tall to push this button".... DRIFTER, attend to this!

[sage moat]

its a simple formula. 1999 taught us about drifter as a single character. Old Peace will teach us about operator as a single character. Tau will teach us about them both as a set of characters

the narrative panel team had the lead writer mentioned that part of his process isn't thinking about facts for the character, but rather what other characters think of them. i think this is a natural extension of that

[misty salmon]

(kiddo's been taking bad lessons from Thrax during his vacation on the Zariman)

[brazen seal]

"this is not a trauma experience moment, drifter it's your time"

[modern steppe]

Drifters had enough drinks with Arthur and Velimir

They’d be fine

[sage moat]

it also seems like we're able to romance a member of the 3 new protoframes AND a member of the hex which uhhhh

uhhhhh???? i mean im down for it

i just didn't think the hex would be

[severe hamlet]

Is the new coming quest going to tell us more about the old war?

[sage moat]

yes

though keep in mind it won't be the next update

there's going to be a fall update first, then i think the devil's triad update, then The Old Peace

but devil's triad might be in the old peace update as two quests in one update

[somber obsidian]

Inaros.

[sage moat]

bug

[tacit jackal]

Isn't Devil's Triad coming with "The Old Peace"?

The trailer's title would suggest so anyway

[sage moat]

read the exact next message i sent

[tacit jackal]

Skipped that in my head, my bad haha

Was a bit too hasty

[proper barn]

Devils triad I think is in the Old Peace

Oh lma9

I'm OWNED

[severe hamlet]

Nice

[tacit jackal]

More Operator trauma \o/

🥳

[severe hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-clem-yellow-eyes-gif-14862662

[proper barn]

also the Second Tau update

Might even go more into it.

[lean garden]

and? theres an and? I thought it was just upping our number from 5 to 8 dateables

[sage moat]

isn't it 6 to 9

everyone in the hex is datable

[severe hamlet]

Hey xbox players do you like playing on Xbox

[sage moat]

i do

[tacit jackal]

Yeah

[sage moat]

i think the game feels better on controller than keyboard

[severe hamlet]

[tacit jackal]

Controller the comfiest imo

[lean garden]

sorry I forgot what hex meant numerically and forgot amir was dateable

[severe hamlet]

Nice

I think I might change to xbox series X

[tacit jackal]

PS5 controller is amazing though but Xbox Controllers are perfect

PS5 controller got cool gimmicks I'm envious of tho lol

[severe hamlet]

You playing from Tv or monitor?

[rich quail]

I’m kinda hoping that the Harrow protoframe will hear the rap tap tap

[dark ocean]

im really curious about the connection they will make to rell

[rich quail]

Yeah cus inherently harrow is linked to Rell and Wally

So it’d be sad if they make no reference to it in any dialogue

[strange plinth]

they've said that Father Lyon has no proper link to Rell

[rich quail]

Where

[dark ocean]

so it must set in a timeline loop/ reality like the protoframes we have now?

[rich quail]

Well idk I think the new protoframe will be in albrechts lab

[dark ocean]

for example warframe:1685 or some randome mideviel stuff

entrati on a generational run here lmao

[dense nest]

every protoframe 1999 supposed to be in time loop except maybe kaya

[rich quail]

Yeah but in the trailer I think the new protoframes won’t be in 1999

I think in old peace we’ll unlock a new section of the labs

With the Tau system on the ceiling

[dark ocean]

but where will the new protoframes be in? is it like oh albrech got there as well not just 1999

or will it be in the same time loop but its broken out of somehow and the gets to another time loop

[rich quail]

Idk I don’t think they’ll be in a time loop

[lean garden]

its not necessary

but they need to be on the kim to text us so

[feral cape]

Not really harrow is just the warframe rell happened to use

[stone onyx]

Doesn't mean it's not important or connected to him.

[rich quail]

It’s just a possibility

[stone onyx]

It is what protected against Wally

[restive river]

Rebb has said there isn’t one

[tall echo]

No

[solid oasis]

Rell is what held back wally

Harrow was just the warframe he was just using

[tall echo]

Yes

[stone onyx]

I misinterpreted it then.

[eager dragon]

Ok, crackpot theory with zero evidence other than vibes behind it: all of the Tenno powers are linked to the Chosen Operator. This is why, when our Operator was thrown into the Void in the New War, the Tenno presence effectively disappeared - they were severely weakend, kinda like what happened to us in the War Within (atleast in our head).

Depending on when Kahl's battle happened in relation to the final assault, it could also explain the "dead" Rhino - the Operator piloting it simply lost transference and woke up in their orbiter.

Of course, that assumes that the final assault happened, then Kahl, but unless there is something stating otherwise that kinda makes sense - final assault happens, they loose, Narmer finishes off the remaining forces which is when Erra lands on Earth (as opposed to going to earth, then back to space)

And, if the Orokin knew of this connection, might also be why our Operator was chosen for the Old Peace - the most special of Tenno, just as Adis appears to be the most special of the Sentients.

(And why Ballas was seemingly rather confident jn his victory after getting rid of 1 Tenno)

Ofcourse, most of this is Speculation, with nothing really backing it up, and so is unlikely to be true, but for now that's my headcanon.

[humble sierra]

I think that's the general user consensus, really, besides the Old Peace stuff (only because the quest isn't out yet)

[eager dragon]

Definitely exited for this quest, it has so much potential to reveal more about our Tenno

[worldly knot]

We are the "Chosen Operator" so, yeah probably.

[stone onyx]

Only one of the Zariman kids (we) made the deal, which is why we would be the Chosen Operator.

[worldly knot]

People who run their Drifter & Operator as siblings in shambles

[tall echo]

Or, y'know, the rhino got affected by the orphix fields covering the entire plains at that point

[strange turtle]

A suitable Tenno candidate has been found.

The reawakened Tenno is being guided by THE LOTUS, the same entity who led the Tenno at the end of the Old War.

The Tenno has discovered the truth of their identity. They are a human child, one of many kept within cryopods on Lua in the Reservoir.

These children were passengers on the Zariman Ten-Zero, the colony ship bound for Tau and lost to the Void. When recovered, they were found to have developed parahuman abilities.

Teshin Dax helped the Tenno to resist the Elder Queen, who has now been eliminated. Only the younger 'Worm Queen' remains.

The Tenno has recovered much of their lost training. Suitability to fulfil the role of CHOSEN OPERATOR has exponentially increased.

[After Chains of Harrow] Parameter confirmed. The Tenno is the Chosen Operator. We await the correct moment to activate the Kalymos Sequence.

The deal isn’t why we’re the Chosen Operator, though it may have been a factor in us being a candidate initially

Though considering the report only says that the Tenno are Zariman kids with Void abilities after the mc finds out themself rather than in the actual entry on the Tenno and the wording of other paragraphs + it not being mentioned it may not have even been known

[abstract ridge]

yeah in the computer in the sanctum we are referred to as the chosen operator

[abstract ridge]

ive been beat

[obsidian vigil]

I kinda forgot, margulis doesn't exist right? Like Natah didn't skinwalker-ed margulis because margulis was Natah from the start

[rich quail]

Margulis was an actual person

[pine orchid]

there was a Margulis, but Natah later mimicked her personality

[rich quail]

She was executed and Lotus mimicked her to be more likable by the Tenno

[obsidian vigil]

Oh so it WAS a skinwalker situation

[rich quail]

Kind offff?

Natah didn’t kill margulis

Tbh I think natah thought even herself that she was margulis

[obsidian vigil]

So a FNAF mimic situation

[rich quail]

I guessss?

[digital grail]

https://tenor.com/view/fnaf-fnaf-memes-the-mimic-five-nights-at-freddy's-fnaf-security-breach-ruin-gif-3935180139478958475

[tall echo]

Margulis existed but got turned into mist and gore by the seven for refusing to weaponize the tenno

Natah got margulis' memories and personality force uploaded into her brain by crybaby ballas

[obsidian vigil]

Highly adaptive sentient robot that mimics a mother and then the robot stopped mimicking and actually thought that they ARE the actual real person they're mimicking and takes care of their child and then dies? Yes, that's 🖐️THE MIMIC🖐️

[digital grail]

Heck they technically even got abused by their "significant other"

[eager dragon]

Meh, to be fair it was M2 that got abused, not really M1

[digital grail]

Eh potato potahto

[ashen hazel]

Potato tomato

[stone onyx]

My 2 cents is that there is a Chosen Operator from the start depending on the deal, thing is that only Wally and we know who made the deal, so Albrecht relied on other factors to discover who is the Chosen Operator.

Though the wording of the report makes this nothing but speculation.

[pastel violet]

All operators are the chosen operator, None of the operators are the chosen operator. Eternalism theory

[pine orchid]

I have a speculative theory-pasta to throw at the lore-wall
hypothesis: the infestation is in some way related to kuva and its void-derived properties, giving the infestation certain capabilities similar to transference
things that might support this hypothesis:

• the technocyte virus amalgamates matter like people+tech, kinda like how voruna & her wolves upon being exposed to kuva becomes one
• the technocyte coda takes on the personalities and memories of the original boy band members, and they drop a small amount of kuva when we stab them
• Eleanor is infested with technocyte, so you could say she's the most infested of the hex. she gains telepathy (kinda similar to transference XD) and also claims she had peeked into an alternate timeline where she became a nun instead, and lizzie is aware of the timeline resets. also the unum is full of kuva and she also sees the strands of khra

I picked up the hypothesis because I wanted a more in-depth lore reason to why the infestation can seemingly see the strands of khra besides "just because" Xd

[stone onyx]

Isn't Eleanor's telepathy a byproduct of being Nyx?

[pastel violet]

Golem Jordas have a mind too, cephalon but that's mean some Time was a human or an infested🤔

[stone onyx]

Eternalism hurts my head given that Wally's messed with it.

[pastel violet]

and he say "we are so many more, this is just the beginning"

[pine orchid]

could be, we also have precedent that helminth (through lizzie) has awareness spreading across time so Eleanor to me effectively has super infestation from helminth+technocyte

[normal mountain]

finally, someone uses that right

[pine orchid]

I havent actually fought jordas or alad v I keep getting distracted Xd

[strange turtle]

We have nothing to indicate that “Chosen Operator” is some special status beyond them being someone capable of Transference who’d have a role in Albrecht’s plan though

I wouldn’t be surprised if there ended up being something deeper, but so far there’s been nothing to suggest that.

[normal mountain]

As far as I'm aware, Eleanor is telepathic because she got the Nyx strain
She only relies on it because the Techrot turned her tongue into a giant whip of nastiness, and she can no longer talk normally

[strange turtle]

Unless I’ve totally forgotten some big detail, but when I’ve looked for stuff surrounding it I haven’t found any of that so far

[pine orchid]

even so, the nyx strain is part of the helminth strain, no?
and helminth is still infestation that was refined by the orokin

[normal mountain]

Yes
In the case of Nyx, refined specifically to grant/develop telepathic powers

[tulip axle]

Not that sure about the Unum, she has Kuva, bounds and leaps of it lol, but she's more of a seer of sorts commanding the quills, watching the strands, what's strange about her is that she can stop time, so there's something else there with the unum, not just watching the strands but being able to mess with them, maybe a sort of counter-part (no, not that but I can't put it better atm) to Wally? A true weapon to annihilate sentients (thus why sentients wanted to destroy the tower).

Not even sure why DE left it as is but we should be getting back to it in 2026

but if the infestation (more than likely) subsumed Orokin (and other races) to a certain point, then it should be able to at least understand how the void works somehow, imagine having a hivemind spawning over ages constantly going on the void and how it'll affect it

[pine orchid]

yes, and my hypothesis is based on how things with void properties can mess with both consciousness and time
and the idea is that kuva is a catalyst to those kinds of 'powers', like how the Orokin used kuva to conduct their body snatching, because it is derived from the void
like how wally can just go anywhere and anytime, and I presume albrecht's journey to the past also uses the void somehow since he's a void researcher, and how Kaya follows us into the future by using the void as a sort of 'trampoline'

and the Infestation pretty sure have subsumed Orokin, we have the very infested Entrati family and presumably the Ancient Infested were also Orokin once, so it could've subsumed both that knowledge about the void and the Kuva within the Orokin

[lean garden]

I think the important thing here is:

why did you say that the infested can see into the strands of khra? Because looking at the timelines that be, and a strand of khra are two different things

[slate basin]

id really love it if the tauron academy sequence on release showed other tenno npcs walking around the campus

[pine orchid]

I thought the strands of khra do mean timelines based on this, though maybe it's just a simplistic understanding of it

[lean garden]

right there in the end. key operator: conceptually embodied timelines

the timelines that be just be, they wouldnt necessarily be conceptually embodied

most especially if theres the concept but no embodying

[pine orchid]

so are you suggesting that it's more related to the palimpsest of time thing?

and that Lizzie being aware of the timeline resets are part of the traces that remain from the original replaced events?

[lean garden]

Im suggesting its uh

how to say, not as straight cut as "related to kuva"

Lizzie is effectively cloud storaging memories of the loop

since shes plugged into the greater infestation

we've been shown that the infestation are afraid of the void, and afraid of wally (aka the Smiling One) through the lil lore drop prior to whispers in the Wall

[tulip axle]

could a way to think of it be how the symbiotes work in spiderman? Always thought it was strangelyt similar, well, hivemind and such

[lean garden]

so I dont think its some directly void related function that the infestation share

[pine orchid]

I dont actually know where the infestation has been shown to be afraid of the void, I havent seen much interaction between them at all really

[lean garden]

Ill have to dig up whispers promo material

[lean garden]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/tennocon-2023-teasers/

[pastel violet]

I remmember too, The Warframes are infested humans, at the start of the Ballas test they become crazy by the infestation, so the Tenno control the empty mind of the next Warframes, an empty armour of war. But the second dream changes that, when Stalker try to kill us, the "empty" Warframe moves to save us. So they are not full empty they are almost veggetative , out of himself control , but they have a mind and are watching and living. creepy right? 😨😨😨

[rich quail]

The warframes we play as (expect umbra and protoframes) are just reconstructions of the originals

They aren’t alive like that

[tulip axle]

More like pieces, it's been mentioned more lately but it's like there are pieces of the original humans

[pine orchid]

damn sees rather odd to not include it in the game itself
but it's not like something related to kuva and void can't be afraid of the void itself, like Albrecht and Tenno are all void related but can be afraid of void/wally especially when it seems to be the antithesis to life itself

[eager dragon]

I just assumed it was a sort of reflex that we later fully unlock with the War Within, to be honest.

[pine orchid]

and right now it's the best explanation I got aside from "just because" is that the infestation are also in a way related to the void or derives some functionality from the void, like basically everything else that touches timelines

[pine orchid]

I did too, mostly because I thought I saw the Operator's hand moving towards it as if trying to Transference into it but was held in place by the stalker, so that was the best the Operator could do with Transference

[rich quail]

I don’t think the void and infestation are related whatsoever

[lean garden]

think of it less of a function of the void and more of a function of consciousness

[tulip axle]

Well, there's one thing, in general, most infested aren't attuned to void such as helminth strains (WFs) are, so that's one thing, if you're not somehow attuned to it, it would make it easier for Wally to exert more influence, you could also put it the other way around tho', since you're attuned to it it could be easier but that's what the operator is there for

[pine orchid]

hb function of consciousness that is catalysed by the void? mostly because everything else that seems fantastical in this game is related to it

[pine orchid]

that's fair, I would've said Helminth specifically could be related to Kuva
since Helminth was engineered by the Orokin, who's to say they didn't use Kuva in the process?
But that doesn't quite explain how the Technocyte Coda can also keep rebirthing and taking on personalities of others because afaik they have nothing to do with Helminth, just Technocyte

[lean garden]

not sure if I would say infested hivemind is catalysed by void, might need to check eta dialogue

[lean garden]

oh coda is an easy one

thats the way the coda were made

[pine orchid]

not the hivemind itself, just the time shenanigans related to it

[lean garden]

like, literally

[pine orchid]

they also do drop Kuva, which is a weird thing if surely DE could just make them... not drop Kuva?

[lean garden]

like they were made to be replicas of the boys, and so everytime you make a coda in specific you get da boyz

[tall echo]

Eh?

[rich quail]

I think this is more of a gameplay thing

[tulip axle]

That's one thing Lizzie mentions, why I wonder if we could see it as how the symbiotes in spiderman work, they are all connected so they all know of each other.

Or you may also think of it in how Legion in Mass Effect works, one body and a main interloper but many "voices", and they're all connected, reason why when talking with Lizzie drifter mentions Helminth

[pastel violet]

The orokin creates the sentients to build Tau( as slaves) , They fight the orokin to be free, so the orokin uses the grineer to fight back, so the grineer figth the orokin, so the orokin use the infestation to fight back them all, but the infestation was too strong and become out of control, so the orokin create the Warframe to fight the infestation but become crazy, so the Tennos are the only way to control a Warframe and the orokin use the Tenno to fight the crazy Warframes and the infestation, and the Grineer, and the Sentients, but the Tenno become uncontrollable and erase the orokin, so Stalker try, just try to kill the Tenno in revenge. Summary: The Orokin are a Joke 😃

[tulip axle]

that plus what Bau mentioned, it's rather straightforward on the coda side

[pine orchid]

possible, but also DE made a whole different set of mods and how those function in banishing your adversary surely they could also just remove Kuva from the coda's drop tables?

but true I could just be overthinking it, it just struck me as weird

[rich quail]

Idk kuva doesn’t even exist in 1999

[pine orchid]

which is exactly why getting them dropped when we stab the coda was weird to me! XD

[tulip axle]

thing there is that warframes weren't created to go against infestation (at least not perse), iterations went (iirc)
1 - voidrigs
2 - warframes
3 - Tenno on WFs

[lean garden]

personally I feel like its just copy pasted from the kuva and sisters since iirc they also behave like so

[pine orchid]

but the symbiotes in spiderman aren't communicating across timelines and time itself are they?
idk I'm not familiar with spiderman lore

[pastel violet]

too many things, we always can forgot one or another detail, 🫠

[lean garden]

oh they do lol

or at least one continuity of them does

its one of the more popular venom runs

[pine orchid]

well alright then, another theory that was thrown my way by my wife is that the reason Lizzie knows of future Helminth is because Lizzie 'talks' to our warframes from the future

which I also like more as an explanation than "just because they can"

[lean garden]

kinda? lizzie is lizzie, but lizzie is also your warframe ya get me?

[tulip axle]

well, they do talk(ish) to helminth, can't recall which KIM it is but drifter is shocked a bit when talkign to lizzie thinking and writing as if it's related to lizzie

[lean garden]

Locutus of the Borg is Locutus, but Locutus is also Borg

[tulip axle]

Hah, wanted to mention the borg for the longest, thanks Bau

[pastel violet]

So Eleanor can know everything about us and the future and our unknow past just for be

[pine orchid]

this one you mean?

[tulip axle]

Precisely, that one chat with Lizzie, great stuff they thought on, think it's on that one that she says to forgive him/her for some that do not follow suit like Helminth and Lizzie do, that's what also supports a bit the Legion-like part I mentioned, so you can have consensus (helminth, lizzie, others) but you also have dissenting voices within the infestation

[pine orchid]

I think I remember this, smth about us asking why the infestation still attack us even though we're also infestation (warframes)? but I'll have to look through the kim messages

really the real magic is that Lizzie understands how to use emoticons, while Arthur over there didn't until you explained how it works to him XD

ah here's another one about Lizzie and Helminth being one, still looking for the other one you mentioned 🤔

[tall echo]

I've never gotten kuva from coda I'm p sure

[tulip axle]

and this is basically why Bau mentioned the Borg, Locutus IS LOCUTUS but Borg

[pine orchid]

I've gotten them before I'm pretty sure, though then idk if that's a bug I might go grab a coda and see

[tulip axle]

oh no, I've gotten kuva from them, not that many times but it is there, not sure how the droptables work there

[pine orchid]

lemme see if someone else has compiled their droptables somewhere

the only thing I can find is about how adversaries can drop kuva and nothing specifically about the exact percentages 😔

but like, if they can change the drop tables and banishment system to use antivirus and potency mods instead of requiem relics, surely they can change the kuva drop into something else XD

[lean garden]

we have access to the raw drop tables if that helps you in any way

DE doesnt hide it

[pine orchid]

I would like to see, where can I find them?

[lean garden]

https://warframe-web-assets.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/cms/hnfvc0o3jnfvc873njb03enrf56.html

[pine orchid]

this is my first time seeing this website, thank you!

[sly pagoda]

There is a part of me that wont be surprised if at some point we find out that Wally had some hand in starting the old war or ending the old peace.

[wary anchor]

When Teshin says "You've ruined us both" during TWW, is he saying that he showed up to the Queens empty-handed?

Otherwise why would Teshin be ruined without Operator being there?

[strange plinth]

basically, iirc
he "brought" the wrong thing

[wary anchor]

Two steps ahead knew he was going to be followed no matter what IQ

[rugged parcel]

Lizzie uses :3 a lot which makes me walk around wondering

[west oasis]

Makes sense those who use :3 are usually evil and infected

[pine orchid]

:3

[tall echo]

Huh

[rich stump]

Wha? :3

[brazen seal]

true, and here's proof

https://tenor.com/view/the-man-in-wall-warframe-gif-24269482

wally def did a :3 there

[silk atlas]

:3

[strange plinth]

:3

[dapper bloom]

i have come into this images recently, did we ever learnt who this is? it appears in the Chains of Harrow video teaser from 2017

[turbid merlin]

So do we believe the events we saw so far in The Old Peace actually happened to our character?

Cause it seems to contradict a lot of things from The Second Dream and The War Within.

[jaunty oasis]

I think it actually happened because it seems like remembering those events activated some orokin mechanism on the ceiling. We don’t have an established track record of turning on orokin machinery or unlocking doors from remembering an alternate history

As for any contradictions, I think this old peace period was just never brought up before and probably another thing the lotus kept from us until we needed those memories to follow Albrecht

[sly ibex]

I don't know if it necessarily contradicts what happened before. These seem like more memories that were just forgotten, to me.

[jaunty oasis]

As for why it hasn’t been brought up by anyone in the system, or even potentially recorded in something like the vitruvian or the leverian, it’s possible it was a secret the orokin kept from most in the origin system. Probably easy to do since the events took place in Tau, and it makes sense the orokin wouldn’t want it known they negotiated anything with anybody.

But that’s what I think anyway. I don’t think there’s a contradiction. It’s been established for awhile that the operator forgot something in their past

[turbid merlin]

The issue is that I don't see any point at which we could have experienced these events, because we were picked up from the Zariman, stuck on Lua, and then Margulis tried to help us, resulting in her being blinded. She eventually put us in the pods in order to help us with the nightmares. Then the Old War started, and the Warframes were invented, and failed to be controllable. Margulis erased most of our memories of the Zariman in order to help us find peace, and most of our focus abilities as a result. At some point Margulis was executed for criticizing the Orokin's treatment of us and her work was used to create transference and put us into "The Second Dream" as child soldiers in the bodies of infested biodrones. Then we won the War, and wiped out the Orokin leadership during the victory celebrations. Without retconning a bunch of stuff, there was no point during that time in which we were able to walk around consciously and use our power, while also commanding a Warframe.

[dapper bloom]

in the chain of events there might be things that were left out, and we also dont have an accurate pass of time between one event and the next

[turbid merlin]

Yeah, but they'd have to retcon the part about us being in a dream the entire time.

[glacial bough]

That wouldn't a retcon though

[dapper bloom]

There was a time between us being able to control warframes and the death of Margulis i believe

[turbid merlin]

They're creating retroactive continuity. That's what retcon stands for. They're changing already established events to allow for the insertion of new past events that hadn't previously been established as having happened.

[dapper bloom]

going over Titania lore we get to know that the Orokin were already making warframes for us

[turbid merlin]

That may be the case, but we were in the pods the whole time.

[dapper bloom]

yup

i mean i dont know but im assuming

[glacial bough]

We had the pods, yes, but we weren't stuck in them

[turbid merlin]

What makes you say that?

[glacial bough]

The Second Dream itself already establishes the Dream was mostly just that layer of using Transference. We were still fully aware of being separate entities from our frames

Then the Erra cutscene and Varzia establish us fully being active outside of the pods

[turbid merlin]

They established that we could be removed from the pods, and float around being used like mobile defensive turrets by Lotus within the same room as the pods. It didn't show any indication that we were actually conscious. In fact, it kinda looks like we suddenly woke up right at the end, and oh god I think I just found somewhere it could fit.

Maybe the PC is the first Tenno to awake. Like, after that cutscene they straight up are like "Oh hey, I'm actually able to control my powers now" then they could go to Tau as the vanguard of the assault, which ultimately fails, resulting in them establishing a treaty and the player being the only awake Tenno we see. But that still requires them to retcon The War Within somewhat.

Unless they just hand wave it like "Oh yeah, here's all your powers, you remembered them." and then you forget them again and get put back into the pod again.

I mean, it's still pretty weird but it at least sorta makes sense to me.

[sly ibex]

We likely would have had to be awake for a good chunk of the Old War. We did found the Tenno Focus Schools, after all. That's something that is said in The Second Dream. That, and our Void power was the greatest weakness the Sentients had.

The Erra cutscene was at the very end of the war, I believe. Erra mentions that he and Lotus are the only ones of their family left, at that point.

[turbid merlin]

Well, "It felt like waking up, but it was just a lucid second dream."

[turbid merlin]

Yes, but it could have been the end of the Sentient offensive. The Sentients started the war as a pre-emptive measure to protect Tau from the Orokin. At least that's what we get from (the admittedly unreliably narrator, who at that particular point didn't have any reason to lie) Ballas in The Sacrifice.

[sly ibex]

We know Hunhow was "defeated" at the end of the war for the plot of Lotus killing off the Orokin and Tenno. This all would have been after the events of The Old Peace, I'm pretty sure.

[turbid merlin]

Does it say that was the end of the war? Or just that that was the Sentients' plot to win? I'm just trying to figure out if that was explicitly the end, or just the end for Hunhow and Lotus. Like, the Orokin could have decided to make a counter offensive. We know they did attack Tau at some point based on old lore.

[strange plinth]

afaik, Lotus put us in the second dream
Margulis shut away our memories and put us in the "first dream," which is probably more akin to what we are post-war within, if we're going off of Old Peace

[strange plinth]

safe assumption that its near the end, as the reservoir was the location given by ballas to hunhow as a means to "win"
and Erra is in the reservoir
mag prime codex has to happen before then, as they can't make it to tau if hunhow's already destroyed the rail

[turbid merlin]

I'm quoting a line Lotus says to describe the Orokin's usage of transference from The Second Dream. I know Lotus isn't the most reliable narrator with all her brainwashing and memory issues, but that is what she says, and she has no reason to lie about it that I can think of.

[brazen seal]

the end of the old war happened with 3 big scenarios
lotus phasing the moon into the void
the (sentients?) destroing the sol rail in origin system
and the naga drums

not in that specific order

but def those 3

[turbid merlin]

It wouldn't make much sense for Lotus to wait until the Orokin invaded Tau to "complete the cycle" as it were, but then again, she had already been reprogrammed by Ballas at that point, so she wasn't following the plan...

[brazen seal]

I'm starting to wonder if the old peace happens after margulis execution and this whole treaty is just some scheme between ballas and hunhow

[glacial bough]

It explicit is

After Marg's execution

[strange plinth]

we also don't know if Lotus was in the origin system at all during the old peace, tbf

[brazen seal]

we don't even know if Lotus exists during the whole old peace flashback do we ?

[glacial bough]

She's couldn't really have been

[brazen seal]

maybe she's created and we go with Lotus to the origin system ?

[turbid merlin]

Ok, so basically everyone would have had to put all their plans on hold for The Old Peace to start after Hunhow faked his death... So that's probably not when it happened. Still possible but doesn't seem probable.

[glacial bough]

Natah is created in response to the Vitruvian

[strange plinth]

hunhow probably isn't in the origin system either, yet

[brazen seal]

the old peace probably happened before the moon attack, which is before hunhow faking his death

i think

[glacial bough]

It also has to been given Hunhow destroys the rail when they jump to Origin

[strange plinth]

old war part 1 ends with the tenno + warframe combo, old peace, old war part 2 starts with hunhow destorying the solar rail in origin
is my basic timeline

[turbid merlin]

So I guess they're just kinda saying that the Tenno were actually conscious during The Old War all along or something... which really seems like a retcon.

[turbid merlin]

What are you basing this on?

[strange plinth]

i mean, jade's operator was conscious
if its a retcon, its an existing one, not a new one

[strange plinth]

Natah is on the first "slide" of the vitruvian, though
minus the lotus portion, ofc, but she's there
still not super sure what that means in terms of natah's creation, though

[turbid merlin]

Well this was expanding on my theory that The Old Peace takes place after Hunhow's defeat, but that would require Ballas to put all his plans to destroy the Orokin on hold until after they did all this stuff in The Old Peace, but I mean, he would still hold a position of power, so maybe he is the one who sabotaged it. I doesn't seem that likely, but not impossible. I'm not married to the idea.

[restive river]

Don’t think it’s a retcon, I think they’re just expanding the picture
The timescale of warframe is so large that this shouldn’t cause issues

[turbid merlin]

It'd be a retcon of The War Within because Margulis supposedly erased most of our memories of the Zariman, and most of our Focus powers along with them until they're unlocked again in The War Within.

[sly ibex]

We founded the Focus schools, which are only usable by our Human forms. We already know we were awake during some point(s) in the past, due to this.

[glacial bough]

Because her purpose was to infiltrate the Tenno

[restive river]

The old peace def takes place before hunhow does everything
The rail hasn’t been sabotaged yet

[turbid merlin]

Yeah, but those focus schools only became usable by our human forms after The War Within. Before that they were completely different.

[sly ibex]

But they also existed before then. We just forgot.

[restive river]

Not really a retcon if that happens after the old peace :p

[strange plinth]

ehh
if you have the focus to get the abilities, they auto-cast on mission start and whenever using transcendence
so they are usable after the second dream, just moreso after war within

[glacial bough]

It didn't erase our focus powers, just the stuff like Sling

[restive river]

They were def useable in the past before when they were founded

[turbid merlin]

Her mission was to infiltrate the Tenno, but that doesn't mean she didn't exist before then. Like, unless it says somewhere that she was literally only born for that purpose and I just forgot.

[restive river]

The operator has the biggest case of amnesia ever cause their memories were both sealed off and the timescale is so large

[restive river]

She is literally a mimic, designed for infiltration…

[turbid merlin]

It didn't, because the memories were erased in order to keep us from being insane with trauma and unable to control our powers.

[turbid merlin]

She's Hunhow's daughter.

[sly ibex]

At least some portion was sealed in the past, and we had total amnesia with the abrupt end to the cryo stasis at the start of the game.

So double memory whammy lol

[brazen seal]

and a special sentient called Mimic designed to be like Margulis

[restive river]

Our memories of the Zariman were sealed away
The tenno could still and clearly did exist and found the focus schools, which we now know are also thanks to the sentients

[turbid merlin]

I'm really good at learning videogames. That doesn't mean I was designed by my parents to be good at videogames...

[restive river]

It sounded like a blanket of memory sealing but it wasn’t, clearly

[brazen seal]

btw, where does it say that margulis erased our memory ? I've never seen it and now I'm curious

[sly ibex]

I kind of wish they didn't go the route of making everyone an unreliable narrator. It would be nice to have some concrete stuff to work with.

[restive river]

Yupp

[restive river]

And?

[brazen seal]

huh ?

[normal mountain]

You and your parents are also biological organisms, not self-replicating robots

[restive river]

From what I recall she sealed away our memories from the Zariman cause
Big trauma

[rough rose]

if warframe time works as eternalism says, then we could change the past with no ramifications for the future in the old peace

[turbid merlin]

And people don't generally have kids specifically for the purpoess of sending them on missions to infiltrate enemies.

[rough rose]

right?

[strange plinth]

war within
something about teshin undoing what margulis has done, and making us remember

[silk atlas]

Yeah but we're just going through someone's memories anyway so it's not applicable here.

[eager dragon]

It's a memory, we're not changing anything.

[strange plinth]

palimpset of spacetime
"events can be rewirtten, traces of the original remain"
also we're going through memories, not time traveling

[normal mountain]

This time, anyways

[restive river]

Eternalism isn’t really relevant, also old peace isn’t time travel and we have changed the past and due to the time scale being so large it just changes nothing

[glacial bough]

Sentients are also machines that were trying to win a war and willing to eliminate a species

[restive river]

Eternalism isn’t even accessible

[glacial bough]

Hunhow would absolutely purpose make a child

[restive river]

^^^

[normal mountain]

so would Ballas, ngl

...that's a frigging horrifying thought, actually

[strange plinth]

i mean.
the yuvan
he kinda does

[turbid merlin]

They're sentient self replicating robots. It's literally their name. Hunhow doesn't say "Why are you not fulfilling the purpose for which you were created? This does not compute beep boop!" He asks why his daughter didn't complete her mission and why she seems to have betrayed them. What purpose was Errah designed for? Being creepy?

[glacial bough]

He was created to rule

[eager dragon]

I don't know man, I'd rather design my child than let RNGesus decide.

[normal mountain]

Possibly
Psychological warfare is a thing, you know

[glacial bough]

"Your mission" is the same thing as "your purpose"

[strange plinth]

emphasis on sentient
they have a designed purpose, but they can deviate
see the lotus, taking on her own persona at the end of the new war

[normal mountain]

Ballas designing a child is the horrifying thought, btw

[turbid merlin]

Why would a machine that only created his "daughter" specifically for the purpose of carrying out a mission open with "psychological warfare" to get her to fulfill her programming that he doesn't even know why she failed to complete?

[eager dragon]

Ah, fair, lol. Wonder how that would look.

Wait, why did the gif got deleted, I literally just sent the mini me gif from Austin Powers 😭

[normal mountain]

Was referring to Erra with that
You asked if his purpose was to look creepy

[strange plinth]

might've had a banned term in the link or something

[turbid merlin]

Those words definitely have different definitions and you should look them up.

[pastel violet]

right, we die in the new war, do you remember that? so ,the deal with the man in the wall changes our original timeline to another, to reinsert us alive. that's makes sense

[strange plinth]

what
no we don't

[pastel violet]

yes we do

[eager dragon]

We don't really die, we can't die in the first place.

[glacial bough]

Different exact meaning but the same function of expression

[normal mountain]

Ballas literally says he can't kill us

[eager dragon]

That's why we are sent into the Void

[turbid merlin]

I can't tell if this is a joke or serious. DX

[strange plinth]

"you cannot kill the devil, tenno. but you can send it back to hell"

[brazen seal]

but Ballas didn't expect the Drifter to exist

[glacial bough]

Mission and purpose are both used regularly to mean "things you're meant to do"

[strange plinth]

neither did we lol

[pastel violet]

so , what is the means of the continuos deaths when we do the deal?

my brain will explode

[normal mountain]

Fair lol
Was being serious though
Considering we don't actually know when Erra was created, it's entirely possible he was meant to be a frightening war general

[strange plinth]

other variants of the operator and/or the looping past of that classroom, depending on who you ask
only two are left: our operator, and the drifter

[pastel violet]

if only two left the others dia, or not?

[brazen seal]

I like to stick to the one that says that we kinda ended the eternalism there with only OP and drifter left

[turbid merlin]

Dude can't even fly, like wtf was he for?

[strange plinth]

the others die, yes, but we don't
its our timeline that we're in

[next scroll]

Oh is that why the drifter is "the paradox" he isn't even supposed to exist?

[normal mountain]

Not everyone needs to fly, but I hear you

[eager dragon]

The Drifter has like, 20 paradoxes with him just with Duviri alone.

[strange plinth]

the paradox is how they escape duviri
they can't escape without help from the operator
but operator can't help them without knowing about them
which they can't unless drifter is already out

[turbid merlin]

I'm just saying he doesn't seem like he had any specific design purpose, which contradicts the idea that Sentients only had children to fulfill a purpose quite hard. He's just a creepy lil guy who lopes around and says things in a cool voice.

[next scroll]

Welp that's enough mind fricky for today

[brazen seal]

this ?
funny enough my interpretation on this one is a bit diff
for me it means that margulis erased our existence from the world putting us to sleep presumaly forever

[pastel violet]

that is 500% true 😅

[strange plinth]

tbf this is the one time eternalism is relevant
which is probably the most complex bit of lore

[eager dragon]

Another possible Paradox, although speculative, is how Duviri was based on a book that Albrecht's Daughter wrote that she may very well have based on her father's stories as he travelled in Duviri.

Pure speculation on this one though.

[glacial bough]

Lotus said his purpose was to rule. It's why he was so hotheaded

[next scroll]

Ohhh that's super fun

[turbid merlin]

Huh? Where does she say that? Archon hunt?

[strange plinth]

but albrecht also heard his daughter's voice in duviri
stories > Eularia writes the tales of duviri > duviri gets CE'd > albrecht visits

[next scroll]

But ol albrecthfgb was known for his time shenanigans so not out of the question

[turbid merlin]

ANother Paradox is that Duviri was created based on Drifter's memories of the book Euleria wrote... SO that's like, three degrees of paradox.

[eager dragon]

The fun of being non-linear in time, lol.

[strange plinth]

how would that bit be a paradox

[normal mountain]

Whether or not Sentients only had children for specific purposes is debatable, and in this case irrelevant.
Natah was explicitly created with the purpose of infiltrating the Tenno, getting them to slaughter the Orokin, and then killing the Tenno herself.
She did all but the last step, because she ended up caring for them like a mother.

[strange plinth]

also albrecht only travels between his era and 1999, afaik

[turbid merlin]

I'm trying to figure out where it's explicit.

[next scroll]

Cuz the story was written when drifter was operator age or younger

[normal mountain]

The quest titled Natah

[turbid merlin]

If Albrecht got the idea of Duviri from visiting it, it's a paradox.

[strange plinth]

drifter had the book with them on the zariman?

[next scroll]

Well I mean that the story was written so that the zariman child would've already heard the story written by eularia, who then writes the story from the drifters memory of duviri

[turbid merlin]

Like, if Albrecht got the idea of Duviri from visiting Durviri, then Albrecht visited Duviri before the events that created it happened, this lead to him telling the story to his daughter, who then made it into the Tales of Duviri book which Drifter read as a kid and then used to create it in the first place with conceptual embodiment. Paradox.

[strange plinth]

"In Duviri, I woke every day to the voice of my daughter. I recoiled from this at first, feeling the sting of conscience. I could not confront, even in semblance, the woman I had abandoned. Instead I reinvented myself as a teacher, advising the child-King of the menace beyond his borders.

But as the days melted away, I came to recognize the strange cast of characters Euleria had created, and their purpose. I heard voices I had myself first conjured in the darkness of her childhood chambers, for no other reward than her delight. She had not only preserved this gift I had thought so trivial, she had made it an instrument of healing. More: a stronghold."
stories existed before duviri

[glacial bough]

Eularia came up with Duviri on her own

[next scroll]

Wasn't it specifically said she used albrects characters and world and personalities from stories he'd tell her

[glacial bough]

No

[normal mountain]

The entry quoted above seems to disagree

[turbid merlin]

Just expanding on what someone else said.

[next scroll]

Aight time to marathon stallord for the 8688th time cuz i forgot some minor detail of the warframe story again

[strange plinth]

duviri may have been an original creation, but the characters definitely weren't
albrecht recognizes the characters, not the environment, after all

[strange plinth]

the reply is to both

[glacial bough]

Yes, my no was in regards to the characters being based on stories he told her of his experience in Duviri

[next scroll]

Oh yeah, had a question about the tau quest thing, I wonder if my interpretation of it is wrong or if I'm overanalysing, I think it's very interesting that lotus is the person that sends us to remember, to "dream" if you will, of what we were, of what we actually are. Am I misinterpreting what a dream is?

[turbid merlin]

Ok, but what I wonder is, did Albrecht visit Duviri before the Zariman accident? Cause that'd be some interesting Wibly Wobbly Timey Wimey stuff.

[next scroll]

Woblascular if you will

[normal mountain]

Doubt it
There's no way Duviri would have existed before the Zariman

[turbid merlin]

RIght, but again, Wibbley Wobbley Timey Wimey... stuff.

[next scroll]

I'd agree again but... khea is some funky business

Khra*

[turbid merlin]

Void doesn't neccesarily give aa crap about continuity

[sly ibex]

Albrecht recognized the characters because he created them, not because he met them prior. Duviri is a collection of bedtime stories he told Eularia.

She modified them to help people be safe in the Void, of course, but he was the original creator of the characters.

[next scroll]

Could be albretch says stories-albretch gets to duviri-eularia writes stories

Or duviri could be... a paradox. Roll credits

[turbid merlin]

We can surmise he went to 1999 during The Old War based on the fact that that's when Loid went to sleep, so he could definitely have visited Durviri after the Zariman event,but it would also be really interesting if he didn't.

And we already know that there're events that don't line up consistently in time between Duviri and the Origin system. Like Teshin.

[strange plinth]

wdym?

[normal mountain]

That, I will admit, is a fair point

[turbid merlin]

Teshin got his neck snapped, fell into the Void, and ended up in Durviri, and aged significantly by the time Drifter finds him in Duviri Paradox.

The New War didn't take that long to resolve though, cause no one else aged that much.

Meanwhile Lotus' hand falls in at the same time, and Driftter only finds it just before meeting Teshin the first time they actually remember.

[strange plinth]

void time is weird, yeah, but it still progresses mostly-linearly, tmk

[normal mountain]

I mean, the timeskip is sorta implied to be a few months
But yeah, for a War it was over fairly quick

[turbid merlin]

So Teshin fell into The Void after Lotus' hand did ( or at most a few seconds before) but was there significantly longer. Also we have no idea what happened to the rest of Lotus' body, but that's a whole other can of worms.

[strange plinth]

didn't land in duviri, but that's about it
it'd disintegrate in the void, sentient weakness n all that

[turbid merlin]

Wonder if Wally can protect Sentients if it wants to... DX

[silk atlas]

Lotus's body was siphoned for energy and left to rot

[turbid merlin]

What do you mean? We literally see her fall into the void portal right before we do.

[silk atlas]

...I could've sworn that's what happened

[turbid merlin]

I should get dSiege to think about the fact that Lotus' body is unaccounted for if he hasn't already. He'd probably freak out about that. lol

[silk atlas]

I'd rather not bother with dSiege...

[turbid merlin]

Uh... sort of. https://www.youtube.com/live/Jf8Zwa_INKk?si=rllFQQGr1J8RDiey&t=13504

[merry hawk]

What’s a character who (lore wise) brings hope to all? Next month i might change my pfp to them, all depends on if I feel the same amount of hope.

[brazen seal]

Unum

[merry hawk]

Oh yeah, forgot it’s an organism.

[south nimbus]

What was the name of hunhows wife again?

[dire mountain]

Praghasa?

[little kestrel]

why would you not feel hope?

[merry hawk]

Have very short but deep moments of depression, getting better though.

[steel compass]

Drifter?

like, he took out narmer alone

well "alone" but you get it

[sly pagoda]

Thematically the Drifter feels about right. They did give the fight agains Narmer a symbol.

And got the Hex back on track to stop Hollvania from identifying as Pripyat.

[mental current]

Time is only linear relative to the narrative thread you're following

[unique talon]

Besides Albrecht

The remaining orokin were aware of wally and the murmur

?

[strange plinth]

no, albrecht says that he never mentioned his encounter with wally to anyone else
the exception being the people of duviri

[restive river]

No they weren’t

The only people aware of wally and the murmur at that time is:
Albrecht
Loid
the Cavia
Rell
(The rest of the Tenno forgot til the new war)

[unique talon]

How would we forgot about their existence?

[strange plinth]

margulis locked away memories of the zariman
we get some of them back during war within
and we relive the deal during the new war

[little kestrel]

He could talk to the people of duviri?

[strange plinth]

he did visit
unintentionally, but he was there

[restive river]

Our trauma was sealed away

Even when we get some of it back we don’t get it all back, not til we’re forced to relive it during the new war

[little kestrel]

And we see what was after the deal in the new peace and before we took the long sleep

[restive river]

Likely not all of it but yes we will see some of the old war :)

[flat jacinth]

I was talking with a friend about wally and everything around him, about how entrati plans on defeating it, and my friend hit me with "what did wally do wrong tho?", now I'm confused and I need some answers...

Did he do sm wrong? More than Albrecht?

[modern steppe]

He (likely) caused some of the events in the Zariman incident, terrorized Duviri for no good reason, and went after people he had no other reason to besides “why not”

[strange plinth]

wally has access to memories, and seemingly chose to make the parents on the zariman go insane just before offering their kids the ability to defend themselves
most of wally's motivation is getting the finger back, which involves chasing after albrecht
took rusalka, lost hollvania, is trying to take and overwrite duviri

[mystic lynx]

Why does he want the finger back tho? I mean sure i would get pissed too if someone cut off my finger but the length he goes to is insane

[brazen seal]

kinda of same logic as sukuna from jujutsu kaisen I think

[flat jacinth]

Probably something related to his full potential? Maybe his full power?...idk...

[strange plinth]

he's "stuck in the wall" without it
something with causality. he's free if he gets it back

[mystic lynx]

Oh so he's only called TMITW after Albrecht cut it off

[flat jacinth]

How did he actually got trapped?

[brazen seal]

he's called that bc of rell

[restive river]

He wasn’t anything before Albrecht fell in

[restive river]

Albrecht and Rell both call him that, separately

[mystic lynx]

Void create what you think of shinanigan?

[restive river]

Rell’s was more literal
Albrecht’s was more poetic

[restive river]

Void makes things when emotions and concepts exist in the void
Conceptual embodiment

It’s possible Wally existed to some extent before Albrecht fell in but Wally became what we know him as because of Albrecht, because of what he felt

[brazen seal]

based on the PC on sanctum they do call him as the indifference first tho
might be just the cavia tho that does that

[restive river]

Heck the void itself was nothing til Albrecht fell in wanting it to be more

[restive river]

Bro has more names than anyone lmao

[mystic lynx]

Alr so i can essentially blame Albrecht for everything wrong in wf universe and i would be right more times than i was wrong

[brazen seal]

nono
u gotta give credits to ballas

[restive river]

The smiling one
The lidless eye
The man in the wall
The murmur
The indifference
Xipe Totec

[strange plinth]

vor calls him the wall of bone as well

[restive river]

He didn’t do it on purpose nor was it malicious

[mystic lynx]

Well i could lit up a building cuz i forgot to turn off the stove doesn't mean I'm doing it on purpose
You get the idea

[restive river]

Albrecht sucks but his goals are better than 99% of all Orokin
And that’s stop the thing he let loose on accident at all costs

[brazen seal]

it's a fair point since we don't know a thing abt it

when the man in the wall quest

[restive river]

We know stuff about it

Just not a ton

The Cavia give some insights for example

Wally wants what we got
We also know his two current weaknesses, being tethered to strands and love

Ofc he gets the finger and there goes the strand weakness

[brazen seal]

well, fair enough
from TWITW I stopped paying attention to lore tbh
need to catch up to those

[restive river]

Which he will def get it
Chekov’s finger

[restive river]

Def read the operator report in the labs :)

[brazen seal]

kinda of already did

[restive river]

Nice :D

[brazen seal]

btw

knowing that the cavia was watching this whole time

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/910466081263599636.webp?size=48&animated=true

[restive river]

They were in cryosleep iirc

The pc was watching
We uh
Don’t know who wrote that

The cavia had to be in cryo or they’d already be dead due to void exposure

[brazen seal]

damn
I 100% need to go read its lore

[strange plinth]

loid says something about a stasis during whispers
don't remember exactly

[restive river]

The cavia’s story is tied to leveling with them

[restive river]

Yup somethin like that

[brazen seal]

oh, I'm max rank dw

I just completely ignored the lore

[restive river]

We don’t know who or what wrote the operator report

[restive river]

Time to stop doing that

[brazen seal]

will def not do that on old peace

[restive river]

Loid and the Cavia were asleep
Albrecht was gone
And there goes all the options

Old Peace will give a lot of good context for things I’m sure

[brazen seal]

yes, you can

100% albrecht's fault

[restive river]

Tbh we can blame the Orokin in general

Also capitalism and ORO

[mystic lynx]

Capitalism and what?

[restive river]

ORO, the organization behind Scaldra and the reactor
They work with Hollvania’s and several other governments

They’re def the “proto-orokin”

If they didn’t mess with the techrot it may have not exploded how it did actually
Cause
Scaldra and the on-lyne record label made the clones and I’m sure that didn’t help things
Who knows what else they were involved in

Also Russalka and Scaldra are def an analogue to the Orokin
Russalka uses the Orokin rig for anims and has the long arm

[sly pagoda]

We do not have any real information on ORO do we? I know Amir made em ornery when he gave Entrati the reactor specs.

Guessing they are some kind of NGO then unless they are a faction in the Hollvania government.

[brittle siren]

Oh

https://youtu.be/4uQjxOJLIQU?si=ZqcEli79DTyVDzlW

[turbid merlin]

Uh... Ticker?

Eudico?

[strange plinth]

oh yeah
ticker's a good one
maybe eudico too
lmao you sent that right as i typed it

[turbid merlin]

Nora sometimes.

[pine orchid]

Rell! imo

and his mother Kay

does Adis inspire hope or great despair? bcs I swear it feels like we're about to be punched in the feels and get hit with the "aren't these just memories? you cant undo what has been done" qwq

[brazen seal]

that's exactly it
we all know how the old war ended, we know things will go down bad
but we all wanna know how

[void wigeon]

It’ll prolly prove to be one of the catalysts for that mentioned treaty, to fall apart

[turbid merlin]

Oh, that reminds me, Aoi!

[pine orchid]

us: tries to hug Adis

MEMORY DESYNCHRONIZED
Animus noises

[lilac aspen]

Operator just ends the quest an absolute depressed mess

[strange plinth]

operator hasn't had a proper breakdown in-
actually. have they? at all?
that's a lot of trauma to just take in stride and keep going

[fringe lance]

Does anyone think the Railjack's Reliquary Drive (and the finger) will come into play in the future?

[lilac aspen]

Drifter gets to express their happy emotions in 1999

Operator:

https://tenor.com/view/wojak-sad-in-the-rain-gif-19983530

[wild wharf]

Why did the orokin erased all humans story??

[normal mountain]

They get very close in beginning of the Sacrifice
I'd say there's some almost off screen breakage when Natah leaves with the impaled Ballas
But I think the closest we get to an actual Operator breakdown would be meeting the Drifter on the Zariman

[normal mountain]

To control the past

[strange plinth]

to make it seem like they were eternal
fit into the 'we are gods' mentality

[strange plinth]

fair enough
they don't pull for nothing lmao

[wild wharf]

I lowk wonder how the hex would react to the origin system

Do you guys think we'll ever get an interaction between a character from the origin system and a hex?

[strange plinth]

have you gotten through kaya's chats yet?
||there's some implied interactions if you get the good end||

[wild wharf]

I think im either at trusted ot close

||spoiler||

||I think I remember her talking about Nora once||

||and Eleanor being able to see another version of herself||

[strange plinth]

i'd just say keep going through kaya's chats when you're able
there's a bit more of what you're looking for there

[stray herald]

I wonder why did the operator transfered out of excal prime and the transfered back in to kill that sentient boss?

[stiff fable]

suspicion is that she tried to transference into the Sentient

only for that to fail

[strange plinth]

yea, that's what i've seen
tried to transfer to fix/heal, failed, last resort kill

[pine orchid]

my wife pointed out to me that it sounded like they were being choked, so probably transfered out to breathe? cuz we hear them like gasping

[stiff fable]

These promos do get changed when they actually come out though

[misty salmon]

transferring out to breath raises all sorts of strange biology questions

[stray herald]

transferring out and then back in to kill also raises questions

like ur safe, let the sentient be distracted

[misty salmon]

wouldn't be the first operator to fat finger 5 in the middle of combat

[stiff fable]

not necessarily, when you're transferenced in you ARE that Warframe

actually choked on my drink how dare you

[stray herald]

unless doing so will have the sentient break excal prime and make the orokin mad

[stiff fable]

I like the keyboard too

[misty salmon]

yeah, but when you transfer back in to the choked warframe is it not going to be exactly as oxygen deprived as it was when you were forced to transfer out to breath?

[stiff fable]

ish

Warframes as far as we can tell are just masses of infested flesh on the inside

[strange plinth]

same stimuli
they'd feel the choking even if they weren't actually in danger
based on teshin talking about transferring into warframes in duviri paradox i think

[stiff fable]

yeah

[misty salmon]

so a panic reaction from a perception of being choked, even though it has limited effects on warframes. Seems reasonable.

[lean garden]

which makes adis's reaction more justifyiable

[brazen seal]

PTSD

[stiff fable]

ooooooh good point

yeah that's really

[strange plinth]

also makes operator's "it was him or me" make a lot more sense, if it was a fear reaction more than conscious thought

[lean garden]

like wdym "him or me" you literally escaped and then jumped back in

[stiff fable]

whew

[stray herald]

exactly what I was thinking

[stiff fable]

Small thing I've been thinking about

But the Operator/Drifter split has another missing part to it

We know that the difference between the Operator and Drifter is that Wally didn't save the Drifter from the Zariman

....but Wally never saved the operator

he gave the kids void powers, right? And they used them to fight the insane adults/other Zariman survivors

[lean garden]

That can be construed as saving

[stiff fable]

but that doesn't make sense for the Drifter's situation

[lean garden]

the children were given the power to defend themselves, drifter, notably not having powers created duviri and escaped

[stiff fable]

Because the Drifter is alone on the Zariman

[misty salmon]

we're also not entirely clear on why the Zariman, devoid of any functioning adults, made it back out of the void so the tenno could be picked up.

[stiff fable]

which shouldn't have happened given what we know

[misty salmon]

that could have been something Wally did.

[stiff fable]

maybe? But the Zariman kids had gone completely fey

it hadn't been days or whatever

They'd been stranded in the Void for decades at that point

They were playing games with their void powers

Wally even references it a few times in Isleweaver

So what did Wally actually do in the Drifter's timeline?

[brazen seal]

there's hints somewhere that said the drifter did take the deal
but that wally said they would save all of them (not drifter included somehow)
and the operator one he's just included in

[stiff fable]

Not that it's a separate timeline really because Void but nulls are still a factor

[stiff fable]

right exactly, Wally welched

[brazen seal]

how everyone else is saved but drifter no ?
I have no idea

[stiff fable]

but like it doesn't work with what we know about how things fell out for the Operator

unless the difference is that Drifter saw everyone around them \disappear as they were miraculously sent back to reality

leaving them alone as the Zariman decayed

[strange plinth]

"I was all alone. I guess the other kids were dead, or rescued. I’m kind of hazy on the details."
"The Angels were coming, breaking through the walls, and I had nowhere to run. I had the book, then I just remember thinking ‘This is where I can be safe.’"
from kim dialogue

[lean garden]

I think you need to refresh yourself on the isleweaver dialogue

https://www.orokinarchives.com/dialogue-neci-rusalka

[stiff fable]

yeah, I'm referencing the Zariman bit

[lean garden]

which bit

[stiff fable]

....the bit that mentions the Zariman??

[lean garden]

the bit that doesnt mention playing games??

[stiff fable]

that's what Wally's really talking about

[pine orchid]

tfw ur trying to ult and suddenly you're a small child 😂

[stiff fable]

Now I'm curious, will operator ults still be on 4 or will it require a different button

[lean garden]

how did you come to that conclusion

"how much you learnt with the restraints taken off" translating to "playing games with void powers"

like we have the perspectives of different crew members on the zariman where the kiddos use their powers

[pine orchid]

I thought that bit meant smth abt giving the kids using void powers, so they learnt how to defend themselves against the angels

[lean garden]

and defend/hunt the adults

thats where my mind went with that line

[pine orchid]

but drifter was left behind during that and was all alone and scared and retreated to duviri

[pine orchid]

yeah that too

in another universe Rell could've been our drifter 😔💔

[dense tulip]

what is this big glowing snake thing

[strange plinth]

vome.
just part of the cycle of deimos
nothing to worry about
-# not me forgetting what channel i'm in lmao

(i don't remember what affects it has on the environment other than being blue)

[mystic lynx]

Different fish, different ores(?)

[strange plinth]

different fish definitely
not sure about ores
there's some unique enemies that are only in one of them
and necramechs are active in one, dead in the other

[dense tulip]

oh

is it a creature ?

or a big infested plant monster

[strange plinth]

definitely infested. what exactly i don't think is known?
there's a little detail on Fass and Vome in heart of deimos
something about the hive being divided

[dense tulip]

it would be cool to fight it

if it’s even hostile

[strange turtle]

It’s Infestation so it definitely is, but it’s more focused on fighting it’s sibling than anything

[swift sentinel]

I think the game cheats their scale but Fass and Vome are implied to be enormous

[midnight niche]

During the heart of Deimos tennocon reveal years back we got to see them up close, they are indeed massive

They make lephantis look like a mouse

[pine orchid]

"Mom says I get to be the sun now! ptooey!" -Vass/Fome probably

[runic bronze]

havent been here in a bit : how r yall

[runic bronze]

Wally specificaly made a deal eith operator in which he gives them powers to survive long enough to be rescued (hell, that rescue expedition on its own probably wouldnt happen without Wally

[dire mountain]

Do NOT let them cook

Eternalism was a mistake because its made people go "oh uhh because eternalism" for everything

[runic bronze]

ive been trying so hard but they locked me out of the kitchen while i can just stare in abject horror as their cooking causes a gas leak that's gonna burn my restourant to the ground

[dire mountain]

I STILL see people talk about a relationship between scaldra and the grineer

Two military factions do not have to be related

[runic bronze]

my eyes roll back into my skull and an ice pick starts floating ominously towards my cranium

[dire mountain]

And if anything the shadow figures behind scaldra is the basis for the orokin not grineer!!

I've had people claim the UNUM was infested

[turbid merlin]

I just realized... Ballas says the Reservoir was in the void in the Leverian he sent to Hunhow, that means it was apparently in there, and then brought out somehow in order for Hunhwo to assault it. Then after the Tenno revolt the Lotus put it back in there herself...

[dire mountain]

Warframe players are never beating the allegations of not paying attention 😭

[lean garden]

for example:

[lean garden]

ballas never said the reservoir was in the void

Ballas: "Distorted by vague horrors, we kept the Zariman survivors within a secret Reservoir. They were the missing half. Transference-linked: the warframes, the body; and they, the mind. I give you now the coordinates and codes to this place. But do not underestimate these devils, Hunhow. They did what we could not. We had created monsters we couldn't—"

[dire mountain]

No dont be too harsh to this guy they are asking questions

Thats an important part of learning

Well, questioning their own understanding

I think

[strange turtle]

Also just to clarify that was a Vitruvian he sent, Leverian is Drusus’s museum

[strange turtle]

The Resevoir was on Lua, which Lotus put in the Void

[frosty cargo]

Lotus hid it in the Void

[lean garden]

afterwards

lua gets attacked first

[frosty cargo]

Yeah

Never said anything else

Was it hid after the Old war or while it was ongoing?

[lean garden]

as part of the old war

since alad believed it destroyed