lore-discussion

[nimble monolith]

Deimos is a Mars moon, so, ya. General direction.

[iron tiger]

Thanks for that info also what is KIM?

[restive river]

I don’t think the tendrils on the tau stars are anything like the ones in the void mirror tbh

[humble sierra]

The 1999 chat feature

[restive river]

For starters the ones in the mirror are rainbowy

[strange turtle]

Kimulacrum, the chat system you use to advance your relationship with the Hex in 1999/Hollvania

[restive river]

So say Deimos not Mars :p

[humble sierra]

Kimulacrum is a fanrun guide to it, but KIM is the Kinematik Instant Messenger

[restive river]

If the void constructs around earth and the unknown body are the connection of the rails then we should see more btw

[iron tiger]

Wow so his reality exists but the Zariman we see isn’t really just his

[restive river]

It also can’t be the connection to Tau since that was broken by Hunhow
Also the rail to tau in the origin system is closer to Pluto

[restive river]

It is and isn’t

[iron tiger]

And it’s plugging the hole in reality

[pine orchid]

but also those tendrils are only visible in the void mirror
if the window behind ballas is not void mirror material, how are we seeing those tendrils?

[dawn shoal]

The Void mirror ones and the ones connecting the two stars that we see from the Murex, at least, look very similar (it's hard to get a screenshot of where the ones around the Earth-adjacent void orb lead but they spiral away like the ones between the stars in the first screenshot)

[restive river]

Don’t we see the tendrils on the stars elsewhere too?

[fallen iris]

Drifter chilling in 1999
While operator goes through Vietnam flashbacks

[nimble monolith]

That was building on the earlier theorizing about the general direction of where the disturbances are, is all. So anyway. What besides the Heart could disturb the void so much?

[dawn shoal]

Yeah that's what paradox does.

[restive river]

I think this is honestly just a stretch
The tendrils are similar in one regard, tendrils between two orbs
They aren’t similar visually at all
One is connecting two stars
The other is connecting two unknown void objects, one of which is in the same position as Earth

[dawn shoal]

We can see them from the surface of the planet as well, or something similar

[strange turtle]

Ah, right. Been using kimulacrum so much for my second go around I got the name mixed up with Kinematik

[nimble monolith]

Huh. Well. Maybe the other disturbance is the Zariman rift?

[iron tiger]

So the duviri paradox is multiple versions of reality existing at once

This is crazy

[restive river]

Who’s to say this is a disturbance?
We don’t know what these void orbs are

[restive river]

I think this is just two stars close enough to eachother that the more gravitationally dense one is slowly eating the other one :p

[pine orchid]

you mean when we activate the solar junctions? we see a beam hit the surface of the planet but then we dont see it anymore with the naked eye
like, if you look out of the window on lua can you see the tendrils?

[dawn shoal]

every theory is gonna be a stretch at this point, it's only been shown in the relay and the gameplay demo as of yet.

[restive river]

I mean in the void mirror
We only see two bodies connected, not a whole system’s worth

Also the solar rail’s beam is not similar to the void tendrils between the bodies

[dawn shoal]

I'm afraid I just can't accept this, because following similar not-stretched logic would dictate that Tau only has one yellow G class main sequence star that isn't blue at all. There should not be anything blue here. It should look like Sol.

[nimble monolith]

But they seem to be something, so why not the Heart and... Another something. If not another Heart for Tau.

[dawn shoal]

There should be only one star in this system

[restive river]

I feel like y’all are ignoring the fact those tendrils are distinctly different from most things we have seen
They have colors not yet seen in the void.

[pine orchid]

I'm saying we see that in the mirror yes
but what about in Tau? we dont have a void mirror on tau to look through to see if that's what's happening with the stars

[restive river]

That’s assuming it’s a real life star and we know which one it is :p

[dawn shoal]

Duviri technicallly has a lot of colors and it's in the void, but that's a special case I realize.

[restive river]

In the mag prime codex it makes clear Tau had a blue star
So

[nimble monolith]

Or it is no star at all...

[restive river]

It is
My point here is the tendrils are special

[restive river]

I just doubt that’s the case cause the one on Lua isn’t pointed at a star :p

[restive river]

The Heart isn’t on Earth
You’re just disregarding the fact Earth has a void orb on top of it

[pine orchid]

yes, but the point was that it might be the junctions rather than the planet itself

[restive river]

Again this is assuming we know it’s Tau ceti and that it’s a real life star

[restive river]

If it’s the junctions then we should see more of them

We only see 2

And one is Earth
The other is an unknown

It’s not the heart, cause there isn’t one on Earth
It’s not a connection to tau, cause that was severed a long time ago

[nimble monolith]

But we cannot see through the tileset, so we don't know what is in the direction the mirror shows the second something

[pine orchid]

it could be too far to see, and depending on the planetary bodies arrangement, the other one connected to earth could be on the other side of the earth black lrb thing

[restive river]

Yeah
We don’t know what the second orb is on top of
But the first one is Earth

[restive river]

We should still see more tendrils though if that’s the case

I doubt space in the void is 1:1 with realspace

[pine orchid]

that's fair, but idr if we do see more around and like that mirror is only showing one axis of rotation
maybe the other tendrils are above or below us?

[restive river]

Maybe
But we should still see more from the Earth one

[nimble monolith]

Okay. Then the question is, why earth would show in the void. Feelings?

[restive river]

Unknown

I understand trying to crack this, I do
I’ve tried analyzing it
But there isn’t enough info for this oddity

Why Earth?
Why rainbow tendrils?
What’s the other orb?
We don’t know

[pine orchid]

what if the tendril is behind the orb?

[restive river]

I mean maybe but ehhh
If it’s junctions we should see more regardless

Heck we should see tendrils going towards Lua but we don’t iirc

It’s just Earth and that other orb

[dawn shoal]

At the point in time Warframe started referencing Tau, there were 4-5 possoble candidates for planets in the Tau Ceti star system, I think 4 of them being rocky terrestrial ones and maybe 1 hot jupiter (studies as of 2017 found that they couldn't confirm 3 of them, but by that point DE had probably already committed to something). In the same 2017 reserach, they found that the 2 possible planets were most likely large, rocky super-earths orbiting within Tau Ceti's habitable zone, which would be the closest system to earth (just under 12 light-years, according to wikipedia) with as many quickly inhabitable planets with a lot of natural resources to exploit, which makes it the perfect one for the Orokin to choose to colonize. If DE's writers have completely ignored the direct reference to the perfect real-world star and star system, one that would make incredible worldbuilding to mesh with Warframe's preexisting lore, I will be so upset lol.

[pine orchid]

if the arrangement of bodies is roughly smth like say

Venus - Lua - Earth - Mars

and earth only has like 3 junctions iirc including the one to lua?

[restive river]

Tau has had a blue star since the mag prime codex
And now we know it’s a binary system
So
It may just be fictional

[restive river]

Yup

[flint wyvern]

it only befits for people unfamiliar with the lore to assume the wrong! evidently this is kaguya holding madara ten tails in chains kneeling infront of her. using him as proxy to consume the sun to than cast the infinite tsukuyomi!
the heat of the energy makes it seem to untrained eye that theres 2 suns next to each other but im here to clarify for you - thats not the case

[sage moat]

well we saw two blue stars in the relay, didn't we?

[restive river]

If we assume the other orb is Mars or Venus we should see more coming off it
And one towards Lua
But we don’t so I doubt it’s the rails

[restive river]

What

[pine orchid]

and idk maybe the one towards lua isnt visible to us because we'd be staring right at it or smth and DE doesn't wanna blast our eyes with void tendril light XD

[restive river]

Maybe
But we should see more coming from the other one still

[nimble monolith]

And next, how have the infested seemingly void powers, omniscient and all, outside time yet fully chaotic and without coherent planning.

[dawn shoal]

I understand that the appearance of two stars and the blue appearance is due to something fictional. Deimos is a real moon of Mars, but it is actually just a rock and not possessed by a massive biomechanical tumor with a portal to hell in its core. It's a real thing mixed with fiction. It completely breaks Warframe's conventions in storytelling and worldbuilding up to this point to make up something completely fictional rather than add weird fictional things to real stuff that already exists or had existed. It's very possible you are right, but what I'm saying is that given the record we have of the way Warframe does this a completely fictional star system that just looks weird with no extra ties to Warframe's lore or previous worldbuilding would be disappointing to me lol

[humble sierra]

JJK I think

[restive river]

Or other orbs in the distance
Anything to point towards it being the rails and not just. Two unknown void objects

[restive river]

Thing is
It could also just be a real star system but under a different name entirely

The Orokin are years into the future and they did wipe old records
Names of things are different and can change

It could be Spica

[pine orchid]

I'm entertaining the thought because the rails in my head is like punching through spacetime via Void to essentially achieve teleportation
so it being represented by two holes in the void makes sense to me, like the two holes on the paper they'd use to explain using wormholes(?) to theoretically teleport

[dawn shoal]

And if that's the case I have a problem with the strong implications and similarities of it being Tau Ceti, and then having it be what would essentially feel like a bait-and-switch to something else entirely. That would start to make me think I'd been tricked for no reason, and it would be worse.

Not without a strongly established reason why we are randomly calling a different system Tau if it isn't Tau Ceti.

[restive river]

Thing is it’s only been called Tau
We got Ceti from a weapon and that didn’t really confirm anything

[restive river]

I think it would be cool but there’s not enough here to support it for me :(

[humble sierra]

Tau Ceti having two suns in Warframe is fine, imo

[restive river]

Space in the void works differently so we should see more

[humble sierra]

It's not that far of a leap from it having a blue sun

[restive river]

It is a minor thing tbh

The rule of cool
Blue binary stars are cool

[humble sierra]

Plus it'll probably still be relevant

[restive river]

Also if it is Spica then it’s 250 ly away…

[humble sierra]

The Orokin disliked the idea of twins, didn't they?

[restive river]

Maybe, hopefully

[restive river]

They did
They abandoned dualism for the vain faith

[pine orchid]

I havent heard this one before- where is it from?

[restive river]

The grineer queens

They were twins and thus thrown out essentially

And cause they were twins they bonded with the clone class the grineer easily

[pine orchid]

oh I dont remmeber that part about them being thrown out, hm

[restive river]

That and they kicked ass

They survived the night of the naga drums cause they were thrown out basically

If they were allowed to be orokin still during that time they’d be dead

They took power over the grineer while we slept

[dawn shoal]

Is that the lore you find from the Kuria?

I can't remember where that came from

[restive river]

Yupp

[dawn shoal]

I think I ended up reading that on the wiki like I watched the Ordis cephalon fragment lore on Youtube, I just had no patience to find all of those when I started playing lol

[pine orchid]

I dont remember it, or maybe I never came across it yet I thought it was smth you learn in your confrontation with them

I found this instead though, could explain why there could be Dax separatists on Tau? being that there is no Orokin presence there

[proper barn]

i mean The dax are still soilders loyal to the Orokin and grinner where there

so i would assume just the dax where there to just be soliders.

[pine orchid]

I'm more talking about why are the dax even on the separatists side to begin with
an option presented was that maybe there was opposing factions within the orokin that the separatist dax were loyal to

and I thought maybe this piece might help too, because they're not directly raising their sword against an Orokin so they retain their free will for the most part like how Teshin was helping us

I just thought it might be relevant

[humble sierra]

Why is Separatist Dax off the table? What if they're able to break free or something?

[pine orchid]

it was mentioned here before that they're (probably) engineered to literally be unable to resist their orokin masters and be obedient soldiers

[rigid swallow]

What if it’s because this vision is just a little messed up

[pine orchid]

but I'm saying maybe the clause is just they cannot (directly) harm an orokin, so that gives them a little more leeway to work with

and maybe distance from kuva scepters/wielders also help

[proper barn]

Hmmmmm i think we might get that in the quest.

[pine orchid]

i wish it would release faster 😭

[normal mountain]

monkey's paw curls
Releases today, but it's barely cooked and full of debilitating bugs

[humble sierra]

I wonder if we'll get a short demo mission like we did with the exterminate one in 1999

Hopefully one that lets us use our Focus Ultimates

[pine orchid]

ok maybe I should've wished the reveal wouldve been closed to the intended release date 😔

[humble sierra]

This is me with the Devil's Triad

Like out of everything we saw, that's what I want earlier

I initially thought they were coming in the Fall update

[pine orchid]

I'm interested in seeing if Lyon and Marie will let us learn more about the voidtongue

[humble sierra]

I'm interested to see how they tie into the Tau stuff, if at all

Or if the update has new 1999 stuff separate to Tau

[pine orchid]

I feel like they might not, since they seem to be more to the Drifters side of things and they're ataying in 1999 as far as we mnow

[iron tiger]

Tau has a yellow sun

[normal mountain]

I'm more curious about how Lyon got ahold of a Harrow injection
Or, baring that, how Rell got Harrow in the first place
Something just doesn't add up in my brain there

[iron tiger]

And a blue sun

[white goblet]

It wouldn't be for this update. I feel this is more like Whispers in the Wall how it teases and prepares for 1999. Maybe there will be a demo for the actual Tau content next year

[humble sierra]

The 20 minutes we saw were all for the End of 2025 update

[pine orchid]

it could be similar to Temple, at least that's what my friends and I were thinking

[white goblet]

yeah but the tau proper update is in 2026

[humble sierra]

There are at least 3 missions we can access in the past

Including the one we saw

[lime moon]

The grineer and corpus soldiers seem to be treated like canon fodder by the higher ups

[white goblet]

I'm def speculating, but i feel those are scripted missions for the quest tbh

[glacial bough]

The same as the other protos, Albrecht hit em up

[white goblet]

Similar to how whispers in the walls had us do several entrati missions

[humble sierra]

Yeah wouldn't be surprised

But I expect new, accessible nodes too

I'm guessing we do 3 for the story, and then when the quest is over, the repeat ones are just us remembering more generic ones

[white goblet]

I believe this will happen specifically in 2026, but again im speculating

like you get 3 'trial' missions, and then all the missions in 2026

hey to be fair, DE is awesome, so they might just blow me away like they usually do

As for Rell... yeah how he got Harrow is unclear. I like to think that Harrow was made for specifically him, but that seems unlikely

[astral leaf]

bruh

[strange turtle]

There’s also a foreshadowing of the focus stuff in one on the Entrati Pom-2 files

[astral leaf]

ooo gimme

[strange turtle]

The Tenno has recovered much of their lost training. Suitability to fulfil the role of CHOSEN OPERATOR has exponentially increased.

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/kratos-there-are-consequences-discoxlucas-fargocirclecat-whatch-your-tone-gif-17028162749718283482

[swift sentinel]

With Uriel being the poster frame for The Old Peace, I wonder if he'll be farmed in the "memory" or in 1999, since he seems to be connected to Lyon and Marie as well.

[lament vapor]

Im more curious why Entrati used the Uriel batch to look into the possibilities of the future when the Koumei batch is a thing.

[lament vapor]

My guess is that they are serving an orokin, just not the entire empire. That's why the kuva clause doesn't apply, they are following a golden lord, and even if their orders are to fight against other orokin, there's no issue.

Even if that wasnt the case, an orokin of high regard would likely know how to undo or nullify the scepter's effect.

As for which orokin I dont think I need to even say who would form a group that's both anti-orokin and anti-sentient

[swift sentinel]

Do you mean the 'Can the Orokin ever be forgiven?' part? I don't think that was meant as a divining the future sense.

[sage moat]

ok so my prediction of Uriel, the Heretic of (Truth) who spoke in truths is that he was, in pre-warframe life, preaaching an anti-orokin revolutionary thought that will, by the story, be treated as true. i imagine it will just be like "the orokin are evil". as punishment he was made into a warframe.

which also fits the name since uriel was not originally a fallen angel

[analog tinsel]

so like, I'm still confused about Tau. It's a star system, but like, is what we saw a singular planet, or is tau just that one area?

it's hard to look at what we saw yesterday and not feel like come 2026, Tau will just be an open world area

[proper barn]

Corpus are the ones with the most direct ties and history to then.

[proper barn]

It's a whole solar system.

[proper barn]

That wasn't open world. If it was like that I would be like the Zariman.

@analog tinsel also we only saw the December 2025 quest we saw nothing about the 2026 current tau expansion.

[normal mountain]

Fine, but that ultimately doesn't answer my question
Just changes it to "where did Albrecht get ahold of a Harrow injection?"

Perhaps what I'm really asking is "where did Harrow come from in the first place?"

[analog tinsel]

well that's what I'm talking about. I hope the 2026 expansion for Tau isn't just what we saw but as an open world.

It's very ambitious and might not be what DE has in mind, but I really love the idea of a new solar system for us to explore, with new updates involving the addition of new planets.

[proper barn]

I mean he stole Ctye-09 completely.

From the Orokin

[normal mountain]

True
Still doesn't really answer my question

All we really know of Harrow is that he happened to be Rell's warframe

Although I could definitely see Harrow being an Entrati creation, and Albrecht gave him to Rell to help him hold back the mysterious entity that Rell kept noticing

You know, it's kinda odd realizing I have these questions after just going with the flow for so long
I didn't even question why the outcast Tenno had a warframe in the first place!

[violet storm]

Reminder that Parvos was around during the Orokin era. He likely documented different parts of Tenno history to be remembered

[woven coyote]

outcast from margulis' circle
no mention of being completely outcast from the military or the empire

[lilac aspen]

The Orokin made Harrow
That’s where Albrecht got the batch from

Rell simply transferred his soul or whatever into his Harrow in particular later on in an effort to work on continuously keeping Wally back

[calm osprey]

The separatists is weird. Dax are fighting the Orokin Empire but Dax can’t go against the Orokin

But we also never made it to Tau so I guess everything we know doesn’t apply there

[dire shadow]

So who's the third new protoframe? Nidus?

At that point in his transformation into a full-blown Techrot protoframe, I won't be incredibly surprised if him and Eleanor do some flirting. They do have that connection at least.

[frank condor]

we're talking about protoframes in an angelic trinity, Wisp despite being a witch is a nun due to someone, who i imagine helped entrati during his time in 1999. so that means we have a priest, a nun, and a third frame unmentioned as part of this triad.

doesn't it make sense for the third to be jade?

[frank condor]

it seemed more like whatever is going on in the future will be part of a series of updates rather than one giant update instead, several chapters for example. Uriel is also number #63, not #62 who is seemingly the fungusframe.

[silk atlas]

The third one's likely going to be the proto of the devil frame they showed off. Why wouldn't it just be him?

[lilac aspen]

We are getting
A fungus frame?

[silk atlas]

Yeah

[frank condor]

you're probably right since the last protoframe batches included "and here's this guy you never heard of"

[lilac aspen]

Sounds like
A Funguy

[frank condor]

they literally said that in the panel lol

[swift sentinel]

Next Warframe was said to be a "Fun Guy" at TennoLive. Funghi are mushrooms.

[frank condor]

they're also mold

[lilac aspen]

We’re getting resident evil 7 in Warframe before GTA 6

[steel compass]

Just a question, after jade of shadows are we chill with stalker and hunhow?

Like lorewise

Cuz stalker still threatens us when we kill bosses

[dire shadow]

I got a shirt with that exact same joke lmao

[lilac aspen]

Gotta get those credits to afford baby supplies y’know?

[steel compass]

That is fair tbh

And hunhow?

He probably will know we are trying to go to Tau

[modern steppe]

it's more akin that they tolerate us rather than actually liking us, at least with Stalker

Hunhow is chill though

[steel compass]

Erra could mediate our relationship if he was still here

Hope we can save him one day

BBQ with Uncle Erra and Grandpa world destroyer

I'm having a hard time now that i thought about BBQ

The hex, the sentients, the entratis and kahl

[woven coyote]

well that we have seen it needed said orokin to be present

[calm osprey]

Oh right, no actual Orokin was there

[sage moat]

god i hope tau is open world

i won't be upset if its not. But like, they've proven they can do it well with duviri, now apply those lessons in a non-roguelike format

[compact phoenix]

was honestly hoping erra/pazuul was gonna have some sort of relevancy for the new quests, but i guess not

[sage moat]

he might! we don't know

i would more bet on him being important in Tau rather than The Old Peace

[compact phoenix]

maybe in 2026, cuz reb did say this version of tau was the past (?)* and said we'd visit the tau of today in a 2026 update
-# *marking this cuz im honestly not sure if this tau we're visiting is "the past of our reality" or "another reality of the past"

i wanna think that it is another timeline since it was said that the zariman ship was supposed to be bound for tau but was lost in the void and came back to the orokin with only the survivors being the tenno children

and with the whole eternalism thingy, i personally wanna believe it's another timeline

[brittle siren]

no

[glacial bough]

Both just tolerate us now. Hunhow is still willing to try and kill us if not otherwise

[brittle siren]

"I want to believe it's alt timeline" is really just copium just to make yourself feel better

[modern steppe]

Eternalism isn’t exactly a valid argument either in this case

[brittle siren]

like we are OUT of timey shenanigan already, stop speculating base on that

[modern steppe]

It’s not writing cop out people make it out to be

[brittle siren]

oh no the Sentient making treaty during Old War somehow seem impossible

Did they even take a look at Hunhow, Natah and Erra?

[modern steppe]

I think this treaty is a ploy by the Orokin anyways

[brittle siren]

mostly Ballas since his statue is the only one in that Orokin Derelict

[modern steppe]

I find that people think they’re incapable of feigning weakness or trust

When they can if they find a way to get back on top while putting the other down for good

[brittle siren]

Hunhow: damn Shadow is gone and I mourn for Jade's death
Player: Sentient is merely AI they can't make peace

[modern steppe]

Also I think that people confuse their view of Ballas as if the Sentients hold that view

[brittle siren]

The Old Peace also make sense why Hunhow also despise the Tenno that much

[modern steppe]

We don’t really know what the Sentients think of Ballas specifically, at most they would have had distrust in the Orokin in general. There’s also the fact that we don’t know what Ballas did yet

If he did anything, for that matter

He could have just been a figurehead during all this

[brittle siren]

Ballas may promise to let the Sentient own Tau, and he said he only give them knowledge of the Orokin (and some assistance) so they can build their own empire. But this could me a facade and he just tricking them doing the work for Orokin

[modern steppe]

Yeah, and it’s not like feigning trust isn’t part of their character

They’re egotistical but conniving, and a lot of people are missing the second half

[magic turtle]

I think hunhow natah and erra were post treaty

[brittle siren]

No I mean they can show compassion

but many player seem like thinking Sentient is a emotionless robot

which is untrue

[magic turtle]

True, and adis is now yet another example, as well as that archemedian. In fact there was discrimination towards the sentients shown through a cephalon

[magic turtle]

They confuse actual sentients for the mobs we've been facing throughout the years, which were pieces of hunhow or natah

[brittle siren]

lore-skipper be like

even Erra shown some emotion toward Natah and he even decide to help us reach Ballas

are these player part of the Separatist?

because they sound like those rebel

[magic turtle]

Not just some. He ultimately was doing what he was to erase "our influence" on his sister. He thought he was doing the right thing. At the end of the day he's just another victim of ballas's hubiris

[magic turtle]

I bet you ballas started the separationists

They felt way too similar to narmer

Especially in color scheme

[brittle siren]

I mean Narmer is just Orokin 2.0

but instead of a bunch of blue ppl, there is only 1 with a bunch of robot

[magic turtle]

Ngl I want to make my chroma look like adis

[brittle siren]

lame Adis:

[sterile sand]

how the hek did we see tau in memories when we've never been to tau

[brittle siren]

is the concept of MEMORY WIPE somehow slip out from your mind?

[sterile sand]

but then zariman?

👁️

[brittle siren]

unrelated, this happen much after that

[magic turtle]

This was in the old war

[sterile sand]

🗿hmmmmmm I thought zariman was supposed to be first one to get people to tau

[magic turtle]

Your hint should have been the existence of warframes

[sterile sand]

hmmmmmm 👁️ very confusioninging but tau is tau

why was albrecht all crazy on going to tau then, why didn't bro jump 👁️ that sneaky entruti

[brittle siren]

are you high btw

just curious

[brittle siren]

every single adult died beside most children, aka the Tenno, so no, no Zariman has ever went to Tau, until the treaty

[sterile sand]

sleepy 👽 👍

[wild wharf]

Fairly similar

[sage moat]

i fully 100% believe that this is all ballas's fault

i think he made the treaty, i think he made the seperatists, and now he's playing both sides to do something

and something of note, adris or whatever his name is is being inspected by the 7 for how much he's evolved

my crack theory? adis was a partly-organic body double for ballas so that he could live forever in tau, since tau obviously wouldn't have bios to continuity into.

my real theory? the treaty was his attempt to steal sentient technology and get in with the next sentient leaders (hunhow) and he made the seperatists very intentionally to, one way or another, break the treaty without it being his fault, so he could later contact hunhow and give them the tenno secret

POSSIBLY the sentients, who we know are the more peaceful faction, proposed the treaty and ballas made this face once he realized he could steal sentient tech:

[digital echo]

Ballas is literally just Palpatine so it checks out

[sage moat]

i wouldn't be shocked if this quest explains how ballas met erra

weird thing to leave blank right? did natah just remember erra existed and bring ballas to him? clearly before the sacrifice, ballas met erra, revealed the lotus's secret, and convinced him of the whole narmer plot

[digital echo]

this also may or may not imply that Ballas will somehow return

[sage moat]

if ballas returns i will be so upset

his death was perfect

[digital echo]

watch an upcoming update just be the plot of Episode VIII

[proper barn]

i think he will also be the reason

why they break the treaty.

[wild wharf]

Even if he returns in like, a void form or something like that?

[little kestrel]

His story has ended. Now we have adis

[golden heath]

Adidas

[proper barn]

hello John Warframe.

do you have lore questions?

[digital echo]

he'll be smoking a whole pack of Lucky Stripes when we first meet him

[golden heath]

i have predictions, thats about it

[proper barn]

we all have those.

some of us are right sometimes.

[golden heath]

should i post them here or somewhere else?

[sage moat]

here is fine

[golden heath]

i wonder if the introduction of Uriel brings up The Secret Third Thing, because "the devils triad" is their group name, like the hex and the roundtable, and harrow's lua and wisp's sol makes 2/3 so i wonder if uriel is the "priest" of a 3rd god/devil/deity of some sort, maybe uriel is the 3rd deity, like inaros kinda reached deity status among some, so i wonder if hes like that

(typed so fast because i posted them originally in the UFM)

[sage moat]

theres a few warframes that are treated as deities. koumei too. arguably nezha but i haven't read his codex in ages

[golden heath]

yeah, so its not out of the question that Uriel is a diety or great evil figure

[sage moat]

so your theory is that the religion of Sol and Lua has another figure, maybe a devil-like figure, that Uriel is representing?

[digital echo]

specifically the children at this one unspecified backwater farming village in Corpus territory worship Nezha

[golden heath]

possibly, yes

[golden heath]

the ventkids and yareli

[sage moat]

that's not quite worship that's just revering

[golden heath]

yeah, but yk

[sage moat]

i like that theory actually a lot though

[golden heath]

small group of kids and a warframe

[golden heath]

thanks! i got it from a sleep deprived typing fury at 3 am

or 2:47 but thats 3

[sage moat]

so my major concern is that it doesn't seem like these 2 protoframes + uriel are in 1999, where that religion is prominent

the background of the trailer is entrati-like. it could be another lab or just for the trailer, but i think it might be more interesting if these protoframes are from our time and followed albrecht back, since we know he figured out how to go back and forth?

i realized they have to be in 1999 because they're part of KIM

[golden heath]

yeah, but i wonder if its a Kaya situation, or like you said, they were in 1999, but followed albrecht out, like they stuck with him even after the protofram-ing

or in

either way, somehow they are a part of KIM and may or may not have texting dialogue

i have severely misread your message

[candid lagoon]

what subtle me is Mara lohk or void child DE AU is excal prime operator

[sage moat]

what

[golden heath]

i also wonder what that giant (exalted?) blade excal prime used in the trailer

[sage moat]

presumably its the ultimate for the naramon focus school

[golden heath]

exalted blade prime with max melee range for sure/j

[sage moat]

i imagine we're getting 2 new abilities for each focus school --- the halves of the schools developed on tau

[golden heath]

ooooh

[sage moat]

it might just be 1

but i'd bet on 2

excited for what this means for operator heavy gamemodes like eidolons and void cascade

[golden heath]

id bet on 2 too, DE likes options for the playerbase

also what caught my eye is how fast the operator transfers from tau to the origin system, which has a distance (in real life) of 12 light years, which makes me think, whats the extent that the void can provide FTL (Faster-Than-Light) travel

like whats the limit of void travel, if it has any

[lean garden]

well given that its a memory... I dont think speed matters

[golden heath]

oh right

also, i saw lotus in the pool-thing where loid pulled the operator out, i wonder what would happen if you didnt have the lotus or margulis skin on her

like natah

[brittle siren]

That's why do not let generic player cook the story

[sage moat]

ok shut it all down

delay tau, delay the old peace, delay the mod tutorial, all of it

we need a quest specifically dedicated to explaining eternalism because these people are NOT getting it

[brazen seal]

NGL, assuming that we going to tau in early to mid 2026 is bold

[sage moat]

just a post-new war quest that lasts 30 minutes and is literally just us reading a book on eternalism.

[lean garden]

Lemme go send my resume to DE and let me ask them to write the full palimpsest of space time

[strange plinth]

hit em with an actual quiz

[pine orchid]

please, and the pther reference books they mention in the eternalism presentation too while you’re at it

[normal mountain]

Because we all know they're just going to skip the explanation
So, we hit them with the quiz, and if they fail enough questions...
It's Mission Failed, and they have to watch the cutscene again

[proper barn]

Well to he Fair DE said she is all 3 of them cuz mimic so she could look like any of them and just switch when she wanted.

[sage moat]

my name is hunhow

i made the natah

[lilac aspen]

I was about to say
Bold of you to assume We Warframe Players can read

[lilac aspen]

Space Gramps

[proper barn]

Mimic Queen.

[sage moat]

people love the line "conceptually embodied timelines" but they only read that last word

[lean garden]

It was difficult but I put the pieces together

[golden heath]

yeah, forgot about that for a second, i havent payed attention to the lore recently, since i havent had any lore-heavy stuff to do

that i havent already done

[sage moat]

doesn't she look like the lotus during Lotus Eaters

[dire mountain]

Eternalism was a mistake

[sage moat]

eternalism is a really cool way to handle time travel actually i love it

its just. complicated. i barely understand it

[proper barn]

No?

[sage moat]

i thought it would be the same for everyone

alr then, i imagine it'll change in the old peace too

[digital echo]

nah I had her as Margulis

[dire mountain]

Yeah and people dont get it. They say outlandish things then go "oh because eternalism"

And that's not how it works!!

Eternalism in its basic concept is that for every choice you make, there is another version of you that chose the other options. Those timelines are real, and are theoretically accessible

That does not mean they will be accessed

[tall echo]

It's an old way to handle time in general

[normal mountain]

To be fair, outlandish multiverse stuff is fairly common in other works
Marvel's What If... comes to mind

[dire mountain]

Literally one of the questions was basically schrodinger's cat

[normal mountain]

It's just... not the same in Warframe

[dire mountain]

Not exactly but like

Its close enough

It is not that hard to understand I promise you 😭

[tall echo]

It's really quite simple

[blissful thicket]

Guise didn't alad v say we destroyed a sentient civilization but "you don't remember that do you" 🤯

[dire mountain]

He said we destroyed an entire civilization the last time we got close

[blissful thicket]

Yeaaaa

[tall echo]

Referring to the orokin

[dire mountain]

Yeah

[lilac aspen]

Orokin

[normal mountain]

Come to think of it, Eternalism really is more like the tamer What If...s out there
Like the Captain Carter one
One choice resulted in an entirely different outcome

[tall echo]

Orokin

[pine orchid]

I likened the concept of eternalism to a very slippery branching tube slide that you’re sliding down :p

[sage moat]

hey wait a second, the tenno got close with the sentients?

[blissful thicket]

Yeah

[normal mountain]

That works great
For the way the community uses it

[frosty cargo]

Old war?

[sage moat]

i never questioned that line, what did he mean by that (before the old peace got revealed)

[tall echo]

Wf eternalism is literally just the concept that for every choice made, another universe is created where a different option is chosen

[blissful thicket]

Idek

[proper barn]

I said this yesterday but DE does this a lot. They did it eith Hunhow they did it with the mire.

[dire mountain]

And as far as I know the only time eternalism has been relevant is the Drifter!! Their existence is a result of eternalism

[sage moat]

i was under the impression that the tenno, completely seperate from the sentients, decided to kill the orokin

[proper barn]

DE does stuff like this all the time.

[blissful thicket]

Uuugghhh

[tall echo]

Natah

[proper barn]

It's good.

[pine orchid]

yes the up and and dowl of the slide and other branches of the slide exist, but you yourself would be basically impossible to resist going down, and outside that slide is the void/wally
hence why timeline stuff goes through the void

[blissful thicket]

OHHH

[sage moat]

ok surely natah doesn't count

[blissful thicket]

Alright I understand it now

[proper barn]

I'm saying irs a good thing.

[sage moat]

does alad even know the lotus is a sentient?

[frosty cargo]

Nah

[proper barn]

Yesnt.

[sage moat]

that guy knows too much but i don't think he knows that

[frosty cargo]

Not really

[blissful thicket]

I doubt thay

[tall echo]

Natah's orders included using the tenno to kill the orokin

[proper barn]

But Tenno did that before she did that.

[frosty cargo]

And tge kill them (the tenno)

[lilac aspen]

Salad V event where we have to save him
Again

[blissful thicket]

Salad LMFAO

[tall echo]

What

[proper barn]

Like Individual Tenno rebeled against the Orokin before Lotus told them too.

Like Lavos Like Kullevro

[lilac aspen]

For like the Warframillionth time

[frosty cargo]

Individual tennos

[proper barn]

Like Ash

[tall echo]

Well yeah ofc

[pine orchid]

I saw this ystd, could this also be the first instance of eternalism?

[tall echo]

Night of the naga drums still happened tho

[pine orchid]

it was like as if you went back in time in the quest war within

[sage moat]

that was just in your mind

[normal mountain]

Not at the time, I think
After New War (if he still lives, as I suspect), most definitely
One does not forget the person who sics a giant chicken on you

[proper barn]

@tall echo also in the kim Chats The tenno says "we rebeled cuz they Killed Margulis."

[proper barn]

Oh no that was mind palace.

[tall echo]

It doesn't say when they rebelled

[sage moat]

i kinda don't like the kim chats implying that drifter has operator's memories

[blissful thicket]

The trailer in the old peace took place in tau right?

[proper barn]

It was the Queens getting into our mind. now a better question is how was tenno able to get into our mind @pine orchid

[frosty cargo]

Yeah

[sage moat]

but we'll see once we get further exploration of the operator's memories i guess

[frosty cargo]

The tau moons

[proper barn]

They do though. They kinda combine.

[sage moat]

yes

[lilac aspen]

Operator when they see Drifter getting three new romanceable options but meanwhile they’re getting more trauma:

[normal mountain]

Simple fix
Operator and Drifter have lunches and chat about their trauma

[sage moat]

oh for sure i know! i am aware. i just don't like it

[pine orchid]

I thought that too, but it was almost like clairvoyance, we visit the same place but with our warframe afterwards and the exact same set of events happen (like the icicles falling)

[blissful thicket]

But they didn't get to tau since the zariman got stuck? Unless they travelled there afterwards when the tenno met wally and got rescued

[sage moat]

my headcanon is that its third person style dissociative memory

[proper barn]

Kinda but not? I think it's cus the Queens know the place cuz its a Orokin Ruin.

Now the question I still had was

[sage moat]

"I didn't do that, but i remember it"
They still very much view each other as seperate

[proper barn]

Why does Teshin have Mind Kung Fu powers?

[golden heath]

cuz hes cool like that

[proper barn]

Why does he get to help us in our mind palace

[sage moat]

maybe The Teacher will explain it

[frosty cargo]

Thats why the picture abov with the comment isn't so false

[sage moat]

thats the current thought yeah

[blissful thicket]

My head is hurting ugghfjffjhf

[sage moat]

unless im mistaken the current thought timeline including the old peace is
Zariman
Tenno
Sentients
Old War
Warframes
Old Peace
Old War Part 2
Night Of Naga Drums

[frosty cargo]

Ngl i think the flashback withbaidis arent 100% true

[proper barn]

Teshin is so cool. He has mind kung-fu he was strong willed enough to live this long from the old war till now and he like is able to take out sentient defenses. He even resists the Veil.

[pine orchid]

well just putting it out there that maybe it could be reconsidered since we have further context about eternalism now after new war

[proper barn]

I disagree.

[frosty cargo]

Maybe wally shenanigens

[modern steppe]

Tenno would be after Old War at least if you mean them reappearing

[sage moat]

teshin is just like an anomalous goat

[lean garden]

calm down, its no so complicated. Just gotta step back and peeksies with the eyes

[dire mountain]

The warframes predate the tenno dont they

[sage moat]

i mean the tenno coming back from the zariman trip

[golden heath]

obviously

[sage moat]

oh you're right warframes DO predate the tenno

[proper barn]

Okay so. In the sentient creations fragment it says "your other attempts to get to tau."

[modern steppe]

Frames was during the old war, and they only started using them when the tenno came back

It couldn’t be before The Old War

[pine orchid]

Zariman
Sentients
Old War
Warframes
Tenno
Old Peace

[modern steppe]

Though I would agree the Zariman would be before

[pine orchid]

thst way around?

[sage moat]

so it'd have to be
Zariman
Sentients
Old War
Warframes
Tenno return all this time later?
old peace
Old war part 2
naga drums

[proper barn]

Okay it's unclear if Kullevro means they where put into service or if Kullevro actually sees the Zariman itself return.

[modern steppe]

With the info we have yes

[sage moat]

we're talking about the ballas line, saying that he made warframes THEN the tenno came, unless im misremembering

[frosty cargo]

I think we should also listen to ehat rebeca said in the demo second "flashback"

[sage moat]

time gets wishy washy in the void so the zariman returning after like maybe months or years while the tenno only experienced a few days stranded could make sense

[proper barn]

Same thing. Okay The Tenno at first where literally just kids rescued from a ship and Margulis trying to treat them.

[frosty cargo]

That would also make sense why they are only aging slow or not aging at all

[proper barn]

They could "appear" later to actually be put into "service" @sage moat

[sage moat]

that could make sense

[proper barn]

Also In the Titina Quest Margulis asked

[blissful thicket]

Those warframes were completely useless ish before the tenno arrived right

[proper barn]

A infested researcher to help her.

[frosty cargo]

Can you please elaborate why you think they are 100% true?

[proper barn]

Not really? Most of them just didn't listen and rebeledm

There was no madness I don't thinkm

[blissful thicket]

Gotchu

[sage moat]

SO
Zariman
Tenno return as Children
Sentients
Old War
Warframes
Tenno made into soldiers
Old Peace
Old War part 2
Night of naga drums

[reef citrus]

the tenno were in some sort cryostasis during the start of the old war no? necramechs were used first against the sentients i think

[blissful thicket]

Yeah

[proper barn]

Cuz In the Kullervo story he's a gen 1 warframe and Warden (ballas) talks about him watching as his "kin" died.

[sage moat]

the tenno returning as children could slide a bit in the timeline depending on how long you think they were in the void they just have to predate being made into soldiers

[pine orchid]

there was also the part where Ballas said they tried eviscerating their minds, that probably didnt help-

[worn basalt]

Hello would somebody please direct me to a warframe 1999 recap or please tell me what we did in 1999, and please guide me as to what the old peace is about

[blissful thicket]

Right Gen 1 warframes are all 60+ original warframes and Gen 2 are? I know Gen 3 are the ones we make

[sage moat]

isn't there a video we like? help this person out

[reef citrus]

what if receiving void powers made the tenno body age locked at that point

[proper barn]

Gen 1 where all killed

[sage moat]

yeah doomlegend who has the video ill try finding what is often linked here

[proper barn]

Gen 2-3 are the normal warframes.

@worn basalt may I ask what specifically do you want to know/what are you confused about? Also have you played 1999?

[modern steppe]

Gen 1 = pre-tenno
Gen 2-3 = post-tenno
there's no physical difference between the two besides the fact that Tenno calmed them

[proper barn]

Gen 1 all where killed

It says so In the Kullervo Crimes.

[pine orchid]

transference bolts? ballas mentioned umbra was ficed up with one

[proper barn]

Umbra is one of the last frames

[modern steppe]

yeah but simply saying Gen (number) is slightly confusing

[blissful thicket]

I think I remember something about a video saying Gen 2 were able to operate on their own with or without the tenno

[sage moat]

umbra had one specifically so ballas could torture him forever and talk into his brain, i don't think that was a warframe staple

[frosty cargo]

Mabe stalker too?

[modern steppe]

since realistically the fundamental difference is if a Tenno calmed them or not

[pine orchid]

they wouldn’t have had transference bolts pre-tenno surely? whatever a transference bolt is

[worn basalt]

I quit after finishing the hex stuff, don't know what happened after and the hex was relatively short so i don't remember much.

So essentially, why are we following albretch?
I understand the drifter may only follow him into 1999 due to him being a paradox.
But why are we in 1999? What is our goal? What is the time loop?

I understand the operator is now chasing albretch as he is seemingly heading towards tau but other tahn tha i am completely lost

Oh and who are those new hex people

[reef citrus]

would the jade we meet during the quest be considered a first gen frame?

[sage moat]

vinny you know more than me, you got this?

[blissful thicket]

Yes

[modern steppe]

second because her memory feathers say she put her operator to sleep

suggesting that they were post-tenno

[frosty cargo]

So stalker too

[blissful thicket]

Yessss

Since we 3d print jade after her passing

[proper barn]

Okay there is the 1999 finale which you stop the reactor. But 1999 is we follow Albretch to try to help him. We end up helping all the "Hex" who ate proto frames Albretch made. The "new" proto frames Flare Kaya And the married couple are just more protos Albretch made.

[modern steppe]

Stalker is a weird case but generally speaking he's the only one of his kind and has no operator to speak of

[proper barn]

Maybe

[blissful thicket]

Something something about his rage making him easy to control by ballas ect

[pine orchid]

yknow, that’s true umbra might be special and transference bolts are not a staple for warframes even post tenno

[frosty cargo]

I mean he is definetly controlable bc of duviri paradox

[modern steppe]

more so dangling a key for being able to meet his wife again

[worn basalt]

wait so i thought he was the bad guy why we helping him, i now have more questions 😭

[modern steppe]

Duviri doesn't necessarily count

[sage moat]

our goal is finding albrecht so we can stop "The Man in the Wall", the void entity that gave us our tenno powers and drove our parents crazy on the zariman. we freed him from rell's imprisonment during chains of harrow and now albrecht, the person who either created or discovered him, is the only person who might know how to stop him

[modern steppe]

his canonicity in Duviri is nebulous at best

bur if there was ever a chance maybe he could be controlled

[worn basalt]

ohhh so we are essentially chasing after him to ask him to help us to stop wally, does he also have that same goal, is that why he is currently headed to tau?

[proper barn]

Ablretch? Okay a lot of people don't like him at all for good reason but with his and His Gay partners help is how we think we can beat Wally.

[sage moat]

he's complicated. he is on the right side but his methods are definitely flawed and even evil-coded

[proper barn]

We don't know but yes(?).

[worn basalt]

oh okay, cuz i only remember that we don't like him and forgot why

[worn basalt]

so why is the drifter still stuck in the time loop then, can't he come back

[proper barn]

They can at any time.

[modern steppe]

why would he

[proper barn]

Also not stuck

More chilling.

[worn basalt]

Oh.. alright, bro just set up camp and called it a day

[sage moat]

yes he wants to stop wally. we don't actually know why he probably went to tau? we know he went to 1999 to try and bait wally away frfom loid iirc?

[tulip axle]

Hey Pope, always had an inquire there, wally's always going on what he's been taken (the finger that's on the railjack I guess, or well, whatever Albrecht cut down when he mentioned to Eularia/Gomaitru to close the door if that's not just Albrecht's thoughts) but that was never expanded on right?

[frosty cargo]

I would say were, cause he regretted almost all of them

[proper barn]

It's also on the Zariman

[worn basalt]

ooh right that's true! i had completely forgottoen

[reef citrus]

btw how many freaking fingers wally has

[frosty cargo]

As many as he wants

[proper barn]

@tulip axle the reqiumum drive is how people do Hyper Space Jumps without a Solar Rail.

[reef citrus]

we see one on our railjack and one on the reliquary drive

[sage moat]

the finger on the railjack is a copy/clone. end of 1999 specifies that he's resentful that the orokin took his power via his finger without asking, rather than how we made a deal to get it

[worn basalt]

thank you for the info so far, i do appreacit it Vinny and Pope.

one last thing, do we know much about the old peace? I watched the 23 min gameplay and now im confused

[blissful thicket]

How do you even kill him, the only way I think he'll do it is by draining him of his remaining powers

[frosty cargo]

Bit he copies or anatomy so we see 10

[pine orchid]

we have cloning technology and the foundry i think we 3d printed more when we needed it lmao

[reef citrus]

but other railjacks had the finger too right??

[sage moat]

love

[reef citrus]

but how does that copy the void effects of the original

[proper barn]

In the Zariman it's said they are copies and the originals are somewhere hidden. In isle weaver its said the original used to be on Albretchs Island.

[sage moat]

best we've put together so far is that its a temporary treaty in the middle of the old war. the war was resparked afterwards by either us, adis, or ballas most likely

that's the leading theory at least. some think its an alternate timeline caused by our meddling in 1999, or it was before the old war

[tulip axle]

I mean, drifter kind of leans into it when talking to Arthur, can't recall the whole text but you can say to arthur to always keep "feeling", but yeah, they really lean into "love"

[proper barn]

@worn basalt okay The Old Peace is us Remembing A time during the old war probably and we are at tau. That's it that's all we know we have been here discussing it. Have you played isleweaver?

[blissful thicket]

Ooouhh

[pine orchid]

I don’t necessarily know how, but I feel like I remember the game does outright tell us we made copies

[reef citrus]

this is in the tennocon recap page on the wf website: The Old Peace thrusts you into a period of unification between the Sentients and Orokin as you navigate a bloodsoaked conflict against the Dax Anarchs with your Sentient ally, Adis. Told in increments as you delve into memories long thought lost, only you can relive the truth of The Old Peace

[proper barn]

Void weirdness I guess.

[worn basalt]

Ohhh okay, nope i have not, the last I played i finished the hex stuff and got max friendship with all of them, last update i remember was the kuva lich but 1999 edition

[proper barn]

Okay wait a Second it's 10 times better than either of the old lich systems

Cuz you actually get standing items for the hex and its not annoying

[sage moat]

isleweaver's lore is pretty cut and dry admittedly. get the fragments and read them (you can find a guide online) and you'll be set

[worn basalt]

oh thats neat, i assume we can use the standings to get the weapon we want or is that still rng?

[sage moat]

i like the old lich systems but yeah coda are way better

[worn basalt]

oh okay good to know

[proper barn]

You buy the weapon from elanor.

[sage moat]

they drop "live heartcells" to just directly buy the weapon you want

[pine orchid]

agreed, it’s so much less of a pain to grind them and their banishing parason mods

[worn basalt]

thats lowkey so nice ngl

[proper barn]

She has 2 rotations?

[worn basalt]

but i did enjoy the liches, getting the rng with my buddies, it was a fun time

[reef citrus]

i think the memories of the old peace treaty was erased/locked from our tenno mind

[sage moat]

yeah this is true but mostly you can just get what you want its not redoing a mission a bunch until you get the right weapon

[worn basalt]

oh yeah, to confirm, wally saved us from dying by making a deal with us, void powers for an IOU, but we said nah bcuz of said void powers we were enslaved by orokin, lost our parents and suffered, and now he's mad and stuff cuz of that right, cos im forgetting why

albrecht is after him
why we are after him

[frosty cargo]

And im a special case who thinks it's neither cause

1. I want not another timeline in the game

2. There was never a peace treaty in the old war so it couldn't be the real past

3. I also take Rebeca's words in the demo serious where she basically said it could be a place a time after THE WAR where sentients and orokins are having a treaty

[proper barn]

@worn basalt oh also Elemental vice is a thing where if you formaed a lich weapon (any of them) 5 times you can put a elemental vice on them to change the Elemetnal bonus at will.

[worn basalt]

that is so good, how do i accquire this? it will be nice for my builds since i main the kuva bramma

[sage moat]

albrecht is after him because wally is scary and possibly an existential threat
We are after him because he absolutely is an existential threat he ATE THE INSIDE OF A MOON

[sage moat]

ETA or buying from eleanor with hex standing (50k, a lot)

[worn basalt]

Oh okay

[worn basalt]

eta, i remember eda but not eta lol

[sage moat]

its just the 1999 version of eda lol

[brittle siren]

"there never a treaty"
It like saying the United State never kill anyone in war and they are a good person

[sage moat]

slightly higher level

[proper barn]

Its just from Eleanor for a standing amount. Also at will means any time you want in the Arsenal not during missions. But yeah on tenet kuva and coda weapons you can use it. It is one use each though.

[tulip axle]

did they retcon Wally bein happy about us drinking the kuva all those years ago? Or did they even continue with that line? Always thought that was left (as usual) as is, kind of like the "hey here's this sentient tower that has powers and lets people eat from it" Unum

[sage moat]

we were never told there was never a treaty. new lore comes around and we have to readjust things.

[reef citrus]

@frosty cargo This text that I sent kind of explains that they are "memories long thought lost"

[worn basalt]

good thing i only use one weapon lol

[proper barn]

Eta is 1999 eda but you Also get stickers (bonus buffs you can choose).

[worn basalt]

oh dope

[sage moat]

he's also happy if we throw it away

[frosty cargo]

Oh shi- my bad im wrong

[modern steppe]

there's also the fact that info relating to the Old War is just a very short summary + a subtopic of Ballas' betrayal

we never got the true timeline of The Old War in the first place

[reef citrus]

btw wtf is kuva

[worn basalt]

thanks for the catch me up guys, i do apprecaite it

[frosty cargo]

Just didn't read it because i was typing

[sage moat]

origin? unknown
vaguely related to the void
lets people put their minds in other people's bodies, permanently

[reef citrus]

kuva is something that existed before the void discovery

[proper barn]

It wasn't for powers. It was "to save us" in exchange for "our light" we are a "deal breaker" though. Isleweaver is just us Beating Back Wally in Ruslkas body from duviri. @worn basalt

[brittle siren]

Kuva is the thing Orokin use for transference into new body so they could live forever

It was hinting to be made from void

[sage moat]

"to save us" meaning "giving us powers to maybe kill our parents"

[tulip axle]

yeah, but back then he mentions to recall we owe him, or was that when we save it? It's been so long that I don't recall it anymore, but they never continued that right?

[proper barn]

It's void dereived.

[sage moat]

"our light" meaning ?????????????????

[proper barn]

No it was actually get the Zariman out of the Void.

Also not Save us save them.

[sage moat]

he just says "Took ya long enough, kiddo" i think

[proper barn]

It's why the drifter isn't saved.

[worn basalt]

our light? what did he want from us?

[proper barn]

We don't know.

[sage moat]

thats the big mystery right now

the giant axe hanging over our heads

[proper barn]

This happens in the new war btw

[sage moat]

also yes you're correct vinny i misremembered

[proper barn]

You see it happen.

[worn basalt]

oh okay glad to know im not dumb for not remembering it lol

[proper barn]

I mean it kinda is shown in the new war. You see him say "got a light?" And you think he means your flash light but he doesnt.

[proper barn]

Well we broke the deal

So it can't have been that bad.

[worn basalt]

I would just love to know who the hell this guy is and what he wanted from us specifically

cant wait to get back into wf, reinstalling right now

[sage moat]

wally kinda sorta maybe implies we're special in some aspect during isleweaver? i don't think so but it can be read as such

[reef citrus]

im pretty sure that the orokin used kuva long before the void discovery

[frosty cargo]

Tgats why i thougth the old peace never happened

[proper barn]

Uhhhhh maybe a creature made out of fear of the unknown and good question for the second part. He made all the parents go mad and try to kill the kids just to see what would happen.

[topaz pawn]

@sage moat he literally wants to reside in our childhood. He wants to be apart of us. With us. I think he's lonely...

[worn basalt]

yeah i remember that, genuinly such a horrible person

[brittle siren]

And where is the proof for that
Void discovery was long long LONG time ago

[void wigeon]

Kinda like the Flare/Lizzie dynamic

[proper barn]

@worn basalt also it was confirmed in the Kim messages the hold fast didn't go crazy cuz they didn't have kids.

[worn basalt]

hey you get void powers, but i take your parents, enjoy slavery via orokin after btw

[proper barn]

The only people that went mad at first where the parentsm

[sage moat]

yes correct and i disagree with vinny that he is made of fear

[worn basalt]

oh alright great to know, i did not know that

[sage moat]

but we're getting into specualtion about wally's origin and character that is only backed up with our own analysis of the story rather than what's happening in the narrative

[topaz pawn]

Correct

[proper barn]

The Void powers and parent madness was just for fun the deal came after probably?

I am mostly using Kim dialog

[tulip axle]

right, so far, the initial appearance of Wally was due to Albrecht too right? the whole "little bengal" thing when he went into the void?

[topaz pawn]

I got my assumptions from him directly interacting with us. Which... isn't great since he's a proven manipulator. *Man in the Wall

[sage moat]

yes

[proper barn]

Maybe.

[reef citrus]

didnt albrecht said something about not using kuva to do the transference thing after he met wally for the first time

[proper barn]

@tulip axle Albretch was the first person to ever travel to the void.

[proper barn]

Yes.

[worn basalt]

wait for real? Istg i remember in the new war briefly shaking his hand, coz he was like "yo you're gonna die, want me to save you, take power but you give me IOU"

[sage moat]

well his initial appearence is almost certainly due to albrecht, he may have existed beforehand but only in the void. albrecht was the first to touch the void so the first to see wally, whether you think he was creator or not, he's the reason wally is "out"

[proper barn]

Probably.

[worn basalt]

oh yeah i forget didn't he go crazy and the void made a copy of him or something?

[proper barn]

No? That's when he sees wally

[reef citrus]

This implies that Kuva already existed before the Void was widely explored

[proper barn]

That's where "the man in the wall"

[brittle siren]

Kuva probably the more convinient way, before there probably other way to do it

[magic turtle]

It's a Memory. it was to set up narmer. How do I know? We saw ballas in the demo

[proper barn]

Void always leaked through though. Kuva is from the air and more common when we are around. The Queen Goes to the Zariman To get Kuva from it.

[brittle siren]

Oh ok

[reef citrus]

oooooh

[brittle siren]

That make sense

[worn basalt]

im lost

[proper barn]

Okay

[sage moat]

the heart of deimos is blanketing the whole origin system in void energy no? couldn't that have been the source of kuva if we're assuming it post-dates albrecht's discovery?

[tulip axle]

As Vinny said, he kind of goes bonkers, because he goes to the void, sees himself/wally, then comes back from the void and says to Gomaitru/Eularia to close the wall, then Lloid nurses him back to health and... well here we are (more or less ha)

[lean garden]

ultimately look at the fruits of his labour: Ballas is able to wipe out the 7 and consolidate all power to him... in the most roundabout way

[pine orchid]

that copy he sees is most likely wally, the same way we see our copy when dealing with the man in the wall

[lean garden]

luhloid?

[lean garden]

it is wally

[reef citrus]

void was aways there untouched but it "leaks" kuva like the sun emits radiation that get to us

[lean garden]

theres no most likely about it

[magic turtle]

It's not exactly blanketing it, just allows the void powered machinery to function. If it's as you said no sentient would be capable of surviving in the origin system

[proper barn]

Albretch the first person ever to go to the Void. He sees a Copy of himself in the wall (the man in the wall) when gets back he cuts wallys/his fingers and thats how we get system wide void travel. @worn basalt

[sage moat]

to what end? the sentients and orokin already view him as a god-king, he can easily manipulate the other executors, why would he create a conflict, make a peace treaty, then reignite the conflict just to make a different society that worships him so he could go to a solar system he could presumably already go to?

[reef citrus]

that kinda make sense

[proper barn]

Does this make sense? @worn basalt

[brittle siren]

Heart not exist until Albrecht open Lohk gate

[magic turtle]

That is EXACTLY the history of the old war

Up to the new war

[pine orchid]

sorry, yes it's definitely wally mimicking albrecht at this point

[worn basalt]

ohhh alright yes this makes sense now, thank you for clarifying!

[sage moat]

im asking why he would do that? what is his motivation to do that?

[proper barn]

This is the earliest non-1999 we know for sure happened.

[worn basalt]

damn wally lowkey jus toying with us

[brittle siren]

He probably want to explore potential from Sentient by making a Treaty

[lean garden]

Consolidation of power, this is a play book we see time and time again

[magic turtle]

His excuse was the death of margulis. His motivation? None, he just wants to toy with lives

[worn basalt]

oh and could i get a reminder for the bad stuff albrecht did cuz i remember we suppposed to hate that guy but forget whjy

[sage moat]

really what is his motivation for anything up to TNW if people can regularly get to tau.

[proper barn]

Yes he is way less powerful cuz he doesnt have a finger and apparently he might be trapped in the wall. @worn basalt

[worn basalt]

screw ballus tho oml

[reef citrus]

man i love how respectful this community is

[sage moat]

abandoned loid
killed a bunch of animals and made 3 suffer the pain of sentience, one being depressed from losing his wife
made the protoframes, which id also consider torture

[worn basalt]

yeah i lowkey be spamming questions but still recieving answers, feels nice

[magic turtle]

Ballas is shown to be selfish and inhumane time and time again. He would do anything to spite and torture life. He revels in other people's suffering and submission.

[sage moat]

you have a point

[worn basalt]

okay so exactly what i had remembered, glad to know

[brittle siren]

Tbh the quest is not even out yet, so don't jump in too much conclusions yet

[worn basalt]

oh okay

[tulip axle]

don't forget deimos itself, well, that may be of some fault on Son too

[proper barn]

Okay so Being a Proto Frame is hell. The Cavia are from him just throwing animals into the void hopping Wally turned into a cat or dog or something. He abandoned his family his loid.

[worn basalt]

yeah we don't like albrecht

[magic turtle]

The new war also emphasizes that side of him. And a line that defines ballas is said by none other than natah... "You wanted a margulis you can control"

[proper barn]

The cavia only lived cuz of Fib.

[tulip axle]

BUT, he does it all for the greater good🙄 , or so we can type in some kim messages

[magic turtle]

He simply wants power, control, he doesn't want equals he wants slaves

[proper barn]

I mean he even says "if you see me as a demon I at least want to be good one" or something.

[pine orchid]

there's also that he was underhanded with how he created the protoframes, because he promoted the serum as innoculation against techrot but left out the fine print of it kinda is also infestation and turns you into flesh-steel

[proper barn]

Well no it's worse.

[sage moat]

so the idea is that ballas systematically weakened the orokin empire so it would fall, so he could later consolidate power? is the idea then that the tenno were a rogue element and he had to spend time rallying sentient forces to take the origin system and then travel to a tau that during the old peace he had conditioned to view him as "the sympathetic executor" so when erra and natah vouched for him he would be accepted with open arms. this plan falls apart as natah and erra both betray him, but he still hopes his word alone will be enough to convince the sentients of tau that he is on their side, sneak into their ranks, and eventually become their god king?

[reef citrus]

could nidus "heal" the entrati family on deimos?

[worn basalt]

As for warframe 1999, we stopped the reactor from exploding but what beenfit did albrecht gain from not letting it explode? and why is the time loop still going

[magic turtle]

Albrecht, I believe, is what we would have been had rell not intervened with the indifference's plans for so long

[proper barn]

@pine orchid okay So first he gave them all a booster for the tech rot which kinda worked. But they where silent carriers and Albretch told them they needed to take another shot to cure them and that was the proto frame virus. Also Lettie hates him and wants to kill him because she had to tell everyone it was correct.

[proper barn]

We don't know.

[worn basalt]

oh fr? 😭

[sage moat]

all for the sake of his ego, because it doesn't matter if the entire origin system kisses his amalgamated floppy foot so long as there's another system that doesn't

[magic turtle]

He's dead. Simple as that. There is no return. But yeah his plan was to basically be the god king

[tulip axle]

Right right, depending on where you look at it from, Albrecht's either a reformed orokin, living his last ummm, what are they called? Life reruns? lol, anyway living his last life of sorts since he's not taking Kuva just to fix it all back, or he's just trying to roll everything back to the start to fix all the damage he's done, can't help but feel he's doing some sort of ashton kutcher-butterfly effect needlessly

[proper barn]

Yeah. We aren't completely sure. We know Wally really really didn't want us to save the hex. The finale being successful like tried the kayalmos sequence maybe?

[pine orchid]

I think you're right I remember that conversation from lettie, I just didnt remember they got injected twice

[sage moat]

oh i know im just imagining what his plan was from the creation of the sentients to the new war, because it seems like he did a whole awful lot for the sake of being the only executor

warframe movie 2027, give ballas a sympathetic backstory. played by timothy chalamet

[proper barn]

I mean the Orokin still have great medical advanements. Loid gives Albretch Back his Hearing Eyesight and void and hands and fingers and stuff from "cloned" flesh and organs. After the Wally incendent.

[sage moat]

his entire skin if im remembering correctly

[proper barn]

Most of it

[sage moat]

there was a time where albrecht was skinless. a little meat man

[lean garden]

I think its a multi-layer thing where its a consolidation of power, revenge, egomania etc

[proper barn]

That couldn't hear talk or see

And was missing most of his fingers

[tulip axle]

Yeah, right when he came back iirc

[magic turtle]

But back to Albrecht.... I think that, while his actions aren't the.... Best option, we have to keep in mind that he is still influenced by the indifference, no matter how hard he tries to tune it out. He's afraid, and it's forcing him to take irrational decisions. He had to deal with that monster way longer than any tenno and at heart he has the interest of the people he cares for at heart. The only way I can describe Albrecht is as a broken man who's trying to do the right thing by any means necessary

[worn basalt]

ah alright, honestly i think im completely caught up then

[proper barn]

Probably.

[sage moat]

yes! albrecht is a complicated character doing his best. "Don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance" as they say

[lean garden]

if albrecht has any malice, its toward just one very specific goober

[sage moat]

my reading of wally is that he's just a silly guy and we shouldn't stop him

would you really stop a silly guy? on his birthday? how dare you

[magic turtle]

The thing is: the indifference has blurred in Albrecht what is truly necessary. And Albrecht can go to a high extreme admittedly. He genuinely time travelled to keep the indifference away from his family and loid

[sage moat]

and tried nuking a city

[tulip axle]

well, he did mention at the end of '99 that he needed drifter's heart to be strong enough to hold onto the Hex and whatever could come so yeah, silly thing to do all the mess jjust to strengthen the drifter, at the same time all his actions kind of indicate he knows what's going to happen, akin to a regressor doing everything over and over?

[pine orchid]

I like to think that Ballas loves the power he gets as Executor of Orokin Empire, and that's why he wanted to establish Narmer as Orokin Empire pt 2
it's just that he hates everyone else in the old Orokin Empire for killing his wifey and blames all of them including the Tenno for her death, so he wants to purge the lot of them

[magic turtle]

Very extreme measures, all out of fear of losing the people he cherishes. I think that's what separates Albrecht from ballas. Albrecht knows what true love is. Ballas never did and never will

[sage moat]

the line just played in my head
"Albrecht rarely smiled after his trip to the void. And never like that"

[magic turtle]

Heck, I feel like by the new war, ballas was basically like rusalka, a puppet of the indifference

[sage moat]

and i just got a really clear image in my head of euleria playing some game or telling him about her book and a small smile sneaks on his face

[pine orchid]

his entire rant the end of new war did read very narcissistic
"What about ME? you were busy taking care of those void devils and left ME all alone how dare you love anything other than ME" type deal

[obtuse vine]

Idk balls seems too emotional to be a puppet of the indifference

[sage moat]

i disagree i think ballas was fully in control of himself.

[obtuse vine]

yeah we cant lump every bad guy as being the puppet of the indefference

[strange turtle]

A technocyte bbq, cooked by Velmir

[tulip axle]

always thought he was used just to break the veil and allow him easier access to anywhere, ballas did have his goals, but he knew he wouldn't be able to accomplish them and that Tenno would eventually come back

[void wigeon]

I bet Ballas was a psycho from the start

[pine orchid]

do not the technocyte-

[lean garden]

Ballas was so full of himself that Wally has no space to break in

[obtuse vine]

100% was

[tulip axle]

well yeah, there's the whole deal with umbra so

maybe not as bad as the glassmaker but still

[void wigeon]

The indifference wanted no part of whatever the hell Ballas was

[sage moat]

you don't become an orokin executor by not being absolutely insane

[pine orchid]

not even wally wants him

[lean garden]

Nobody wants him, and thats probably why he's got so many issues

[sage moat]

ballas was a great villain. completely irredeemable, utterly hatable, and entirely proud of it

[tulip axle]

going into a tangent here, but eternism aside, what are the chances ballas is somewhat still out there?

[pine orchid]

are you saying he's the ultimate sigma incel??? XD

[sage moat]

albrecht is also a great villain for being on the other end of that spectrum --- redeemable, lovable, and regretful for his actions

[sage moat]

0. dude got soul sucked

[void wigeon]

“I may be a voidborne demigod, but I don’t want anything to do with… that thing…”

[magic turtle]

Like hear me out: the outbursts, the indifferent tone, I'm not saying he was a puppet but he was definitely in cahoots with the indifference. What sells the idea to me is how the indifference tried to twist the narrative towards ballas being our true ally while painting natah as the mastermind during the prologues

[frosty cargo]

So i have a question,
Why does the operator have a different suit in the old peace but menlanwhile in the old war we have the Zariman suit on which we never really took off because of the second dream?

[obtuse vine]

theres a chance we might see him in the old peace

[sage moat]

oh i think they could've been in cahoots

they were cahooting i think. which is horrifying in my reading!

[modern steppe]

hoot hoot

[sage moat]

wally is a mirror. put in curious scientist, get curious scientist. put in traumatized child, get traumatized child.
What happens when you put in ballas?

[obtuse vine]

cuz it looks cool

[pine orchid]

wait which prologues?

[lean garden]

self-propagating ballas?!?!?!?!?

[magic turtle]

Honestly rusalka is on the same boat as ballas I think. She's also irredeemable as her actions are entirely her own

[obtuse vine]

idk lore wise the zariman suit probably got repurposed to be the suits they use when theyre put in the dream pods

[tulip axle]

oh yeah, at least in full orokin form instead of narmer-sentient like, but our only choice to see ballas again then is, eternism and a whole different path, which, yeah, no thanks lol

[magic turtle]

chimera, the ones from prelude to war before the third one

[sage moat]

we get rusalka's backstory and while she's not a horrible awful person, she does kill. a Lot of People

[void wigeon]

Plus, her design is analogous to the Orokin

[obtuse vine]

nah my kill count is 1000x higher than hers

[magic turtle]

Bro he's in the demo

[obtuse vine]

was he the big blue hologram?

[magic turtle]

YES

[obtuse vine]

THT WAS HIM???

[sage moat]

you'd only know based on the subtitles dw

[dire mountain]

And his voice

[magic turtle]

NO ONE READS THE CAPTIONS?!

[sage moat]

i always read the captions

[tulip axle]

lol, yeah he is back but I just take that as a regular communication or just a hologram recording

[obtuse vine]

i read the captions but not the name lmao

[magic turtle]

It's him, just in our memory (we should have blurred only him just saying)

[frosty cargo]

If nobody has a answer to my question i have too believe that all that you guys had theory crafted for the lore is wrong and it could a 3rd instance of eternalism where we didn't need to get saved

[magic turtle]

Like keep in mind. The old piece is ENTIRELY reliving a memory

[frosty cargo]

Lol

[magic turtle]

What was the question again?

[obtuse vine]

waht was ur question?

[void wigeon]

A honeyed & propagandized one at that

[pine orchid]

I didnt realize the indifference had anything to do with that, I thought that was all Ballas
but it did strike me as strange that he would give us paracesis (bp) if he just wants to kill us

[swift sentinel]

Ballas being the face of the Treaty side/Tauvon is what makes me immediately suspicious in a 'are we the baddies' kind of way.

[dire mountain]

"Only two of you. Pity about all the rest."

[magic turtle]

Remember that wally was the one who led us to ballas back then

[obtuse vine]

oh this, if u want the concrete answer, we dont know cuz the quest isnt out yet and i doubt theyd give us an answer for tht

[dire mountain]

Oh

[frosty cargo]

Thanks

[magic turtle]

I think for the demo it was simply a showcase of the operator suit that will come with the prime access for caliban

[swift sentinel]

I'm going to say it's the Tauvon Academy uniform. I think Reb implied that it's the Prime Accessory for Caliban's Prime Access

[magic turtle]

But man does ballas have a lot of victims

Even the stalker is a victim of ballas

[obtuse vine]

yeah but the op wears the zariman suit in the present day scenes so either we wear our usual outfit in the present day or we wear our usual outfit in the flashback, cant have both

[void wigeon]

Kullervo too

He’s his jailer after all

[pine orchid]

I didn't, actually
I forgot there was gameplay there before we were in the hide from ballas segment

[obtuse vine]

its probably this

[magic turtle]

You had to go through the same lua tile from apostasy prologue guided by wally wearing the lotus helmet

[tulip axle]

oh don't remind me about stalkie, now I want DE to continue the whole song and dance with Siriuss/Orion, hah, will probably see how that goes in 3/4years while we're right smack in the middle of some other eternism loop of sorts lol

[magic turtle]

Actually I can see both Orion and Sirius coming to warframe through time travel

[tulip axle]

that was a really good loose end they left "so, this frame has a kid, and it's the stalkers... off you go tenno, nothing to see here"

[sage moat]

do you think hunhow watches the baby when stalker comes to hunt us

surely he doesn't leave it alone

[magic turtle]

It's on lua

[tulip axle]

Oh, definitely, he's called Prodman now, JK, but honestly, even had ideas that through some really weird voidmagic it's actually the tenno we're using

[pine orchid]

ooh I'm rewatching it through someone else's playthrough (cuz I cant focus on what he's saying when I'm too focused on avoiding detection)
and this does seem like wally mimicry
but the interesting part to me is him saying "Love must die"
and it sounds like wally showing us "look at all you've did for 'love' and what did it bring you? more suffering and more war"

[tulip axle]

read with serrated sentient like voice: "come here little Sirion, NO, DO NOT TOUCH THAT BOW", yeah, I can see hunhow

[magic turtle]

Would be funny if this is what actually happens:
Stalker: tenno, take care of Sirius/ Orion. Got to hunt Warframes.
Operator: you still gonna hunt us down?
Stalker: money must be made some way.

[tacit jackal]

Grandpa is confused but he has the spirit

[obtuse vine]

grandpa huhow

[tacit jackal]

Even Hunhow got a soft spot

[magic turtle]

Like don't look at me saying it's not funny if stalker was basically just hunting tenno for grub and is having the tenno babysit his child

Operator: you know, these Warframes are expensive to repair
Stalker: you'll be fine.

[brittle siren]

tbh Helminth is the one to mend the damaged warframe so it kinda free

beside the point that you have to feed him

[magic turtle]

That's what's expensive XD

[brittle siren]

I wonder if Stalker have regen ability

Since he doesn't need Helminth to fix himself

[lean garden]

warframes do

[brittle siren]

But they still need Helminth though

[tacit jackal]

Dude just goes home and snoozes everytime he leaves from hunting us

[magic turtle]

Speaking of stalker, bastardo did not drop anything twice after I beat him

TWICE

[tacit jackal]

Goddamnnnn

Dude dropped a Despair for me earlier, never seen that before. Still no War tho after all these damn years

[magic turtle]

Guess what I have

[pine orchid]

oh I have an idea why wally wouldnt want to have ballas!
he's too full of love for himself Xd
-# (and margulis, but I think his love for her is a little a lot twisted)

[rich stump]

Im not sure his feelings for Margulis can even be described as love tbh

[devout verge]

Yeah, he loves having a Margulis-shaped trophy loving him.
Which is why he handles it so badly whenever his Margulis-shaped trophy loves anyone but him.
He needs someone else to elevate him, because his narcism demands other love and worship him.

[rich stump]

Hence why he also doesn’t seem to care much if said Margulis-shaped trophy is the real Margulis or Natah/Lotus

[proper barn]

Ballas also wants everything he can't have in the worst ways. Also it's never his fault.

Ita always someone else's fault.

[exotic lark]

Ok so a few things still confuse me :
-Are orokin the blue mfs like ballas and the family on deimos?
-Margulis, natah and lotus, how do 3 beings get combined into one?

[quiet canopy]

1: Yes
2: You copy a few memories there, develop more emotions there, get brainwashed once among other confusing nonsense and effectively you get an entity that was intended to be a spy, pretended to not be a spy and the amalgamations of those two is Lotus. I have been playing for a few years and even I do not fully grasp it still

[magic turtle]

I'll put it this way: she was born as natah, was forced to be margulis, and chose to be lotus

[proper barn]

Yes. The family are all Orokin. The Orokin don't need to be blue they must can be. Like Albretch is a Orokin he's mothers Dad.

[magic turtle]

@quiet canopy @exotic lark

[proper barn]

@exotic lark Orokin aren't special or a different race or anything. They just are (well where most are dead now) the ruling class that look that way cus they want to.

Where's the FAMILY TREE

[magic turtle]

They also basically chose to be spirit in origin and possess others and taking over their hosts in a process called continuity

So in layman's terms.... They're parasites

Parasite overlords

[proper barn]

Natah is also a mimic queen made to infiltrate the Orokin. Hunhow even worked with Ballas to do this.

[proper barn]

I said ruling Class/royalty.

[magic turtle]

Read what I said before

[proper barn]

We said the same words. Heheheheh

[devout verge]

Eeh.
She choose to be whatever the player picks when the choice comes up, and from what we know, the Lotus persona was already a creation of Ballas.

[proper barn]

No I know I'm making a funny.

[magic turtle]

Also

We need to talk about the implications of nun wisp

[devout verge]

The real question everyone wants answered is if nuns in 1999 have to be celibate.

[proper barn]

I HAD TO OPEN UP MY PC

[magic turtle]

Did her cheeks get nerfed-

[proper barn]

okay kinda incorrect. natah was always meant to inflitrate the orokin.

she is literally a mimic queen. Ballas because margulis died blamed the orokin empire and not himself.

So he works with Hunhow to engrain Lotus into the Orokin Hiearchy.

he is even the one that tells hunhow the tenno exist.

[magic turtle]

Honestly I think us the player when we made the choice for lotus were basically doing it in her pov

[proper barn]

yes

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/786650808321048596/1351656796242051153/entrati.png?ex=687f4ebc&is=687dfd3c&hm=d8245b7705fbe41535d9f145641911d9e92da1ca227284254e94939f970e0793&

@exotic lark here is a Family tree.

[devout verge]

Any choice we make there is her POV.

[magic turtle]

Yeah

[devout verge]

I mean, you're kinda making my point there.
Ballas was already involved in the creation of the Lotus persona.

[proper barn]

but so was hunhow

[magic turtle]

Hunhow had nothing to do with the lotus persona

[quiet canopy]

Ah yes, forgot about them working together on that

[proper barn]

he literally did

okay

Lotus is literally a Mimic Queen

For this purpose

also hunhow does work with Ballas

we see it 2 times That's what the scarifice quest is about is Umbra finding out ballas is working with hunhow

BUT ALSO in the Hyldrin Trailer he is like

"hey Hunhow when you kill all the tenno leave me Hyldrin"

[devout verge]

Natah existed before contact with Ballas was made, as far as we know.

[proper barn]

I mean Even then she literally was a mimic queen made for inflitration she was trained by the Wolf

[devout verge]

So?
She still created the Lotus persona with the "help" from Ballas.
All Hunhow did was greenlight the plan, and we already know that Ballas used the plan to install backdoor access in Lotus, so he obviously wasn't entirely truthful.

Considering that the Lotus persona already included backdoor access for Ballas, it's safe to assume that at best, Natah didn't know what she agreed to when she became the Lotus, at worst, didn't agree to the idea at all and only the already-secretly-brainwashed Lotus informed Hunhow of the plan.

Like, one possible course of events is literally "Natah tried to infiltrate the Orokin, got caught and brainwashed into the Lotus by Ballas, and then he used her to establish contact with the Sentients".

[proper barn]

this couldn't be possible mainly cuz they didn't know the tenno existed. or well HUNHOW didn't.

until ballas told them.

[devout verge]

Because there's no reason for spies unless Tenno exist?

They could have send Natah as just a regular spy. Then "Natah" comes back with a new ally on the inside who has interesting new information.

[swift sentinel]

Hunhow doesn't actually know where the Reservoir is until The Second Dream, and Natah makes it sound like he was unaware of the Lotus.

[devout verge]

Yeah, but Lotus acted as Natah, yet still under Ballas' control, for decent chunks of the New War, so just because she hadn't actually assumed her Lotus persona yet doesn't mean she wasn't already under his control.

[worthy flint]

Alright I have a crazy idea about hunhow and ADIS, during Tennolive we saw the name of the gigantic mech as hunhallus. What if adis becomes hunhow.

[devout verge]

Space-Stepsis becomes Space-Grandpa?

[swift sentinel]

It's technically possible, in that there's nothing to contradict the possibility, but it's just baseless guessing at this point.

[proper barn]

i mean Hunhow was asleep until natah

[worthy flint]

We know that the old war hadn’t started at this point, and that spacemom doesn’t exist

[proper barn]

And being asleep for 1000 years+ does something to your memory @swift sentinel

[swift sentinel]

Old War might just be paused, we don't know the timeline yet

[proper barn]

Also i think he knew the resivoir existed

he jsut didn't know she put it in the void.

or where it was in the void.

[worthy flint]

He knew about the resivoir and that it was in the void the issue was the exact location

[strange plinth]

old war had started, Adis or the operator mention that "we used to be at war"
old peace is most likely a spot in the middle of the old war

[fading jay]

might be stupid question to ask but is there any explanation of mods, like are they physical things that canonically exist in the world that the tenno use or are they simply gameplay mechanic

[strange turtle]

There was this one event where it was said that the Grineer had given their troops an aura mod

[strange plinth]

actual thing in lore, though i don't think there's much detail
iirc one of the explanations for ||the hex being weak is that they're somewhat inexperienced and don't have mods.|| somewhat of a Hex spoiler

[misty roost]

yeah the old peace has to be in the middle of the old war.
specifically, I suspect the treaty is an act of subterfuge on the part of the orokin. They probably lump it all in as the Old War, whereas the sentients think of it as two separate wars

[strange plinth]

depends on how long the peace lasted i think

[modern steppe]

Cephalon Samodeus made the mod system and likely some of the mods

[devout verge]

Ordis comments on them, so they exist in-world.

Also, Suda (I think) explains that another Cephalon created Riven mods.

[modern steppe]

Samodeus

Suda didn’t create the mods

[devout verge]

Yes, I said that someone (probably Suda) said another Cephalon created them.

[modern steppe]

^^

https://wiki.warframe.com/w/Cephalon_Samodeus

[devout verge]

Yeah, I didn't remember that name.

And I didn't remember who said it was Samodeus.

[brittle siren]

it from riven trailer iirc

[devout verge]

I'm pretty sure it was said in-game, too, but it's been a few months since I got to that part…

[tall echo]

I've never seen the name mentioned in game

[soft vale]

pretty interesting line now that we know what the old peace is

[tall echo]

You are late

[tall echo]

This was a topic before, he's referring to orokin

[soft vale]

i read this server once in a blue moon, off topic destiny 2 chat is my main warframe discord

[compact phoenix]

Ok so it was just a reading problem on my part nevermind

[compact phoenix]

No not really
I was just genuinely confused about it

[digital grail]

I heard somewhere they are cephalons

[tall echo]

They aren't

[ashen hazel]

I submit that the Helminth is Audrey II

[brittle siren]

this could be explain in "The Teacher" quest

[meager wyvern]

Heya lovelies I made a comprehensive guide to the lore of warframe as it pertains to the Old Peace introduction
Leading up to the start of the game
Check it out here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1463349-warframe-timeline-with-old-peace/

[brittle siren]

also this is how mod looks like ingame

I think mod is just like we install software into the weapon

[rich quail]

Chat won’t The Teacher be the first time we see Teshin in main quest, if you can do it right after Vor’s prize

[brittle siren]

yes?

[rich quail]

That’s nice, I feel like newer players can get confused by Teshin, so it’s nice to have a proper and early introduction to him

[brittle siren]

like DE literally said it in the stream

[rich quail]

Imma be real I missed a lot of the stream cus I lagged out

[eager dragon]

That's partially the point of the quest, yes.

[rich quail]

Sorry I’m stupid 💔

[ashen hazel]

Hi, Stupid. I'm Dad.

[rich quail]

🐜

[brittle siren]

Hi dad I'm ur mom

[ashen hazel]

MOM! MOMMY! YOU'RE BACK?!

[rich quail]

Still sad they’re legally obligated not to bring John warframe prime back

[ashen hazel]

What about Dad!? Did he survive?

[brittle siren]

He gone for milk 2 billions years ago

also

[strange plinth]

ok review time
mostly right, afaik, but the biggest points are
"(Albrecht Entrati encounters the finger of an unknown entity within the void, and experiments with its properties)"
Albrecht encountered an entity, and its finger was cut off when the void portal was closed
"The "Finger" is replicated using cloning technology,"
possible, but we don't know how we get "copies" of them iirc
"triggering a war that lasts hundreds of years"
don't know if we have a proper estimate on how long the Old War lasts
not sure on the timeline with Margulis/Natah/Lotus/Tenno Insurrection and other events
"The Grineer, led by an unusually intelligent mutant specimen, become a growing threat. The Twin Sisters fight against them but eventually earn their respect, and become their queens."
i have no idea what the first part is referring to. second part seems to reference the kuria, though.

[ashen hazel]

Don't worry. We'll get him this time!

[brittle siren]

this is really huge

[tall echo]

[rich quail]

When does he say this again?

[modern steppe]

Second Dream

[brittle siren]

though this could just he talking about Natah and she let us kill all Orokin

[strange plinth]

more likely

[eager dragon]

On release it was definitely about wiping out the Orokin

[modern steppe]

I know there's a lot of callbacks they could be doing but let's be honest I don't think DE really thought that far ahead

[rich quail]

Yeah I doubt alad V of all people would know about Tau

[modern steppe]

don't forget that direction was headed by a completely diff person when TSD released compared to nowadays

[rich quail]

Yeahh, also like it’s yet to be seen but the sentients aren’t wiped out