lore-discussion

[rough rose]

we need at least one more cascade node man

[glacial pendant]

Well the lord of gaslighting is still in charge. If he wants to shove this brief period of peace under the rug, he'd also have to gaslight the Sentients inro forgetting it ever existed.

Like that's the thing with him right? He likes to play both sides.

[lilac aspen]

Can’t believe the Operator gets to suffer more while the Drifter gets to chill with friends and rizz one of those six friends

[grand obsidian]

The thing is does this mean we went to Tau before and then came back and just forgot?

[glacial pendant]

But in reality it's really hard to speculate on stuff like this without more hints because currently everything is possible

[rough rose]

wydm

we are seeing memories

[eager dragon]

Yes, that's exactly what happened, you know, Second Dream and all.

[hollow siren]

The Second Dream Lotus put us in sealed our Old War memories

[glacial pendant]

By that time it'll be 9

[hollow siren]

just like how the Dream Margulis put us in sealed our Zariman memories

[humble sierra]

Probably one exterminate, I think what we see in the demo was kind of like an Assault (like the one in Kuva Fortress)

[humble sierra]

Yeah, that's why we plug into Lotus— she's undoing what Margulis did to us

[eager dragon]

True. Although if he could have mass manipulated their memories like that he might as well have... taken control of them, like with Narmer, you know?

[hollow siren]

undoing what she did to us. Teshin undid what Margulis did in The War Within

[lilac aspen]

I mean we the Tenno didn’t even remember we were just kids piloting a mini-evengelion

[glacial pendant]

Upcoming updates: Drifter gets 3 more friends/potential love interests. And operator gets to suffer more

[humble sierra]

Ah yep good point

[dire mountain]

New mission type: excavation 2

[rough rose]

the tileset looks so wide and open

looks more like a open world than a tileset

[hollow siren]

And even then, this is revived Lotus-trio undoing what old Lotus did. She is pretty much a new person since TNW

[eager dragon]

To be honest I could probably say the same about 1999

[lilac aspen]

Honestly it kinda fits
The Operator was always a war machine the second the Orokin weaponized them and had their memories messed up

Drifter basically got to chill for a few years (then tried to escape and got tortured for endless amounts of time), so they kinda became “indifferent” to the suffering and kinda slow healing now with the Hex.

[hollow siren]

yep

[pine orchid]

the Naramon symbol at the hilt of the blade, honestly didn't notice it before because I was like WHOA BIG GLOWY SWUORD

[lilac aspen]

Technically the Operator is “healing” by confronting these memories instead of them being buried or altered

[humble sierra]

Yep each focus school will have a new ultimate

[hollow siren]

Drifter's executions are also very much a metaphor for suicide, since Duviri reflects their mind

[humble sierra]

Maybe new abilities

Maybe a new school?

[flat acorn]

how many tenno are there in lore again?

[glacial bough]

Lotus didn't hide our memories, those are spotty because of the long cryosleep

[hollow siren]

Operator is healing by remembering the life they lived, Drifter is healing by experiencing the life they missed

[humble sierra]

How many players are there?

[dire mountain]

At least 5

[flat acorn]

based on the website, its expanding on the current schools

[humble sierra]

Yeah that makes most sense

[flat acorn]

didnt the fortuna ARG say there were like 50k or something atleast?

[humble sierra]

It was a bit hard to follow while in-person

[glacial pendant]

The scene with Escal jumping in from orbit looks like a loading screen. And the scene before that a mission selector

So yeah I think it's a tile set similar to 1999

[humble sierra]

Yeah and it's a super open-looking tileset

[twilit sonnet]

Really quick to make sure im not stupid- ||Wally is stuck in 1999 right now right? I thought the whole point of keeping the loop there was to keep him stuck but now he seems to be in duviri||

[hollow siren]

More like the whole mission-entry cutscene we usually have the Landing Craft entering the planet/ship fir

[lilac aspen]

Drifter, returning after romancing: “Hey I’m back, I just saw Arthur slam like, ten beers in under thirty seconds and-..What’s up with them?”

Operator, in the corner, rocking back and forth muttering apologies to some “Adis”:

[glacial pendant]

Or riding the motorbike in 1999

[lilac aspen]

The Loop is to keep Wally out

[pine orchid]

another instance of Adis' speech, after the scene we find out his name we always have his name written and he seems to speak in kinda broken short sentences

[hollow siren]

The loop is to keep 1999 stable until we can figure out how to actually stop the Reactor, which is what the Finale is. All 1999 stuff technically happens before the Finale

[grizzled cedar]

hey guys, does this mean that wisp is not an entity because she got a protoframe?

[glacial bough]

He was never trapped there, the point was to keep him from encroaching into the timelines

[glacial pendant]

Then comes Temporal Archimedea implying that techrot is spreading across time

[hollow siren]

The Protoframes and Warframes are fully separate entities

[grizzled cedar]

oh-

[twilit sonnet]

Is there a reason for the loop to still be there then outside of gameplay purposes? If it was just to keep the year stable until the Finale

[hollow siren]

The only exception is Flare, who is also the original and only Temple

[glacial bough]

To make sure Wally stays out

[hollow siren]

It's for gameplay. Lore-wise all 1999 stuff happens, then we eventually get the Finale

[glacial pendant]

He's getting closer now that he's in Duviri. But technically he isn't in Duviri, his herald (Rusalka) is

[lilac aspen]

Wally couldn’t breach the present and thus tried to breach 1999

The reactor was a detonation because it possessed just enough output to stop Wally by rewinding I think? (Or outputted the power to prevent Wally from breaching at the cost of killing everyone)

We now run the Loop and we already can stop the meltdown. Thus preventing Wally from ever breaching because we also use the power of friendship and love to make Wally go “Ew, Yuck, Gross, I’m leaving again.”

[flat acorn]

protoframes are also technically made after the frames, but theyre in the past because reasons, exception being temple

[hollow siren]

yep, with Flare once again being the exception

[grizzled cedar]

wait so could that mean xacu could get a protoframe?

[pine orchid]

They're the grandfather paradox 😔

[glacial pendant]

Yet wally didn't mind the reactor blowing up

[hollow siren]

the unnamed strain they got was made in the future by Ballas, but Flare is the first and only case of it being used, and is who Albrecht named it after

[flat acorn]

technically yeah ig, idk how they would make that work tho

xaku is a very weird frame lorewise

them having a prime is a anomaly

[grizzled cedar]

same with protea, because she would built by the corpus... right?

[glacial pendant]

It's a shame we never got a prime trailer for Xaku

[lilac aspen]

“My Drifter in Void that woman’s tongue is freakishly lo- DON’T KISS HER!” - Wally, seeing the Eleanor New Years kiss

[glacial bough]

It's not, there's nothing stopping them from having a prime

[flat acorn]

no protea would work just fine, shes a collab project not corpus owned, the reason xaku is a problem is because theyre not techincally a finished and intentional frame design, but a amalgamation of like 3

[summer heron]

Yea aren’t they like three frames in one?

[eager dragon]

I mean, so is Revenant, and that was explained by void shenanigins.

[hollow siren]

Would be difficult since Xaku isn't really their own strain, they're Void energy fused to the remains of three dead Warframes

[glacial bough]

They weren't, but Ballas or Albrecht just made a blueprint of them

[pine orchid]

can someone help me, what does Galastra mean by this? is it "surrendering" because they've accepted the Sentients as equal and promised to occupy Tau together kind of thing?

[grizzled cedar]

oh shoot, that would mean we could be getting a warframe like chroma

[hollow siren]

Entrati family sent numerous Warframes into the Void over time as experiments. Some did not return. One day an unknown entity steps out of the Untime Door, seemingly composed of broken remains of some of these lost Warframes, held together by latent Void energy. That's Xaku

[pine orchid]

because I'm not sure what that image is meant to show me... a planet? one of the planets in Tau?

[hollow siren]

Chroma could work well as a Protoframe I feel

[lilac aspen]

Basically she sees the Sentients as just machines meant to terraform (their literal purpose)

Not people to make peace with
We “surrendered” the promise of home to these “lowly tools”

[hollow siren]

map showing the big egg you're at

[flat acorn]

pretty much every frame works except sevagoth and xaku tbh

[hollow siren]

that's the round thing

[wary vault]

btw, her VA is likely of Asaj from Clone Wars and Hela from Marvel Rivals

sounds too simillar

[grizzled cedar]

but isnt chroma a mix of saryn frist, and the 3rd one?

[glacial bough]

The only frames that doesn't work as a proto is revenant

[hollow siren]

yeah Sevagoth would be difficult for multiple reasons

1. He's one of few Frames we meet the Original of
2. It's almost implied the Shadow is not part of his Strain, but is something that formed from him via Void exposure

[pine orchid]

OH! Duh silly me XD
I thought it was some weird... spacefog or something XD

[hollow siren]

In terms of crafting, yeah. But not lore-wise

[grizzled cedar]

oh

[pine orchid]

ah thank you friend!

[glacial bough]

That's not the original Sevegoth

[lilac aspen]

DE make Nidus Proto be like Eleanor but even more freak

[pine orchid]

also are these dead Sentient bodies making up the fence-cage thing? 😅

[hollow siren]

yes

[lilac aspen]

Totally not messed up to do to a sentient

“Here Human, your prison cell is made of the corpses of your family. .”

[hollow siren]

There's also tons of Sentient body parts hanging along the walls and walkways

[summer heron]

Why Adis get so sad at the end of the cinematic thing even though he knew he couldn’t heal the core overdrive?

[grizzled cedar]

so is soulframe a seprate game or within warframe?

[lilac aspen]

It’s still watching your friend have to killing what is effectively a brother/sister

[pine orchid]

separate game by DE

[hollow siren]

Would you be sad if your cousin you love was killed by someone in self-defense

[summer heron]

I mean fair enough but he knew he couldn’t really do anything about it

[pine orchid]

Adis also seems to be a medic-type Sentient or something, it could also be like having to put down someone you know you couldn't save

[lilac aspen]

Adis is also young like the Operator
Emotionally not as a developed probably

[pine orchid]

you can be sad that you cou;dn't save them in the end

despite your efforts]

[hollow siren]

That does not matter emotionally

[lilac aspen]

Hunhow would probably understand and merely get livid that someone forced one of his kind to get violent against their will

Adis is just a kid essentially, he doesn’t have that maturity to think that way and properly harness the emotions to use them like that

[hollow siren]

Sentients are extremely resilient to death, and all share a familial bond, so I imagine it is extremely hard for Adis to accept even the thought that his kin had to die

[pine orchid]

it could also be like
"You can't heal a core override" because it isn't a physical issue for the Sentient, nothing to heal
and he could be sad and disappointed we jumped straight to killing instead of trying to find a way to restore the Sentient's mind

[rough rose]

what do you guys think that gigantic sentient gonna be? just a boss fight, a raid like (not actual raid), new mission type

[eager dragon]

An on call crewmate /s

[hollow siren]

"Assassination" that is us play-fighting with Adis like in the quest

[pine orchid]

IMAGINE Cephalon Cy will have SO many words with you

[fleet furnace]

A sparring type assassination males sense

[rough rose]

it would be so cool to have a raid with a gigantic thing like that

could also be a eidolon v2

[lean garden]

my suspicions is that adis is a command type sentient, and perhaps we would be forced to kill him sparking off the old war again, with hunhow again at the lead

[lilac aspen]

I want to see Hunhow in his Prime bruh

[hollow siren]

"I don't want Void Luggers (hard R) in my ship."

[summer heron]

Do you think Hunhow is similar to hunhulus in the sense of him being like a small guy inside a big mech-like suit?

[hollow siren]

His "Song" is reminiscent of how Erra spoke of Natah yeah

[lilac aspen]

Hunhow was a farmer
Which means He’s clearly a beefy as hell Sentient to do all that farming work

[hollow siren]

No, Hunhow and Praghasa were the two original Sentients that were sent to Tau. All other Sentients are either directly or indirectly born from them

[lilac aspen]

Part of the original, they weren’t just the only two

[lean garden]

like I imagine that Adis is the heir to the Sentient leadership, like Im talking next gen, after erra, hunhow etc and his death kicks them all back to war

[pine orchid]

Hunhow and Praghasa the Sentient Adam and Eve

[wary vault]

"I'll be 10 meters deep into the ground before my Tenno brings home that dirty terraforming lover, Orokin hating, adaptation swinging, VOID-LUGGER!!!" - Cy probably

[summer heron]

So he’s just a super deluxe baby making machine

[humble sierra]

No, that doesn't matter. The Protoframes were made when Albrecht gave some 1999ers Helminth Serum based off the Warframes in the future.

[glacial bough]

The Original is Praghasa, singular

Hunhow is then made by Praghasa

[pine orchid]

wait but, aren't WE the void-lugger? 😭

[hollow siren]

yes, but he lost his "Womb" when making the jump to the Origin System at the end of The Old War

[wary vault]

Sentients

[hollow siren]

no, Adis/Sentients is that

[lean garden]

we lug around the void

[grizzled cedar]

wait are you saying that albercht went back in time to experiment on then to make them kinda look like the warframe we have right now?

[pine orchid]

there's this scene, that's us saying "Stupid"

[summer heron]

it’s like Clanker but for the warframe universe

[lilac aspen]

Hunhow the Farmer’s “Dad Arc”

[humble sierra]

Yes, that's exactly it.

[grizzled cedar]

holy crap now i understand why they can function without the heart of deimos- that got dark.

[hollow siren]

he effectively gave people altered warframe strains that would basically halt mutating them partway through

[glacial bough]

No, they're still turning into frames. It's just a ticking clock

[pine orchid]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxLMrzhpoSbzAy77rRrpwhihrtugXKKl2Q?si=Tf0bhumGOUEdzD-q

[hollow siren]

basically halt

emphasis on the basically

[grizzled cedar]

so wouldnt that mean her basically made a alternate dimension? but then again there stuck in a loop until we figure out how to break out of the loop

[humble sierra]

No, it's implied that the changes to the past ultimately won't matter

[lilac aspen]

The Protoframes though do seem “weaker” since they ain’t fully morphed into a frame

Granted that’s most likely because they don’t have the training and experience yet fully

[grizzled cedar]

oh..

[pine orchid]

this is a little strange because Daklo is looking at Adis, but Adis wasn't saying anything

[lilac aspen]

Examples like Amir not knowing the hack hidden blade or Aoi struggling to lift the truck off her.

[grizzled cedar]

until we basically became there lotus

[hollow siren]

well the loop existed, but Origin System existing proves the Loop was eventually resolved

[humble sierra]

I think Daklo just hates Sentients

[wary vault]

he called him stupid

[hollow siren]

Not racist, just don't like em

[grizzled cedar]

are you saying if we change what happend in the past it wont affect the future, cause the way you said it sounds like that

[lean garden]

eh? Changes to the past do matter, its just that ultimately you and albrecht changed nothing

[pine orchid]

that's us though, the unlabeled text is Tenno
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxSTxAC81p1wfX4-bCtIZEvnknKiBjSNI1?si=7Upey_nHMr2uN4M9

[grizzled cedar]

oh okay

[humble sierra]

Yeah this is the best way to say it

[hollow siren]

at least we changed nothing for Reality

[lean garden]

no need for the loop to be resolved, the rest of a cassette still exists even as you replay that one section over and over and over and over

[humble sierra]

Albrecht caused the Techrot to spread faster than they were meant to, I believe

[feral fog]

“Watch your mouth, void lugger” XDD

[lilac aspen]

Daklo knew if he called Adis a Clanker, he’d get canceled on 7 (used to be called “Condroc” but Ballas bought it)

[humble sierra]

But it still doesn't affect history in the long run

[barren ember]

or we did change things and we will never know what we changed because we didn't experience it because it was already changed in the past

[hollow siren]

well the rest of that cassette does not exist until it is played, since it is not a Void Cassette

[barren ember]

time paradox!

[grizzled cedar]

so its something like durivi?

[lean garden]

thats awfully linear of you tho

The Nine would be disappointed

[hollow siren]

Reality time is linear, but the Void has different rules, which are understood by the theory of Eternalism

[humble sierra]

Duviri's something else entirely, it is now intentionally meant to be a loop— but it wasn't always

[grizzled cedar]

huh..

[humble sierra]

Since the Drifter grew up there

[lean garden]

I mean yes, but by virtue of that it means the loop does not need to be resolved

[pine orchid]

I have a theory that Eternalism is related to the concept of four dimensional space actually

[humble sierra]

And then once they were fully grown I think they spent centuries of loops there

[lean garden]

Im trying to think of how to explain in a more physical example

[rough rose]

when do you guys think caliban prime is dropping

[grizzled cedar]

also is rusalka gonna be possesed again somehow? this is her 2nd time being possesed -_-

[humble sierra]

She's been possessed almost the whole time we've seen her

We never free her outside of a brief moment

[hollow siren]

I guess yeah tho ur kinda right, it's kinda like we made a Void recording of part of the cassette and keep that on repeat

[grizzled cedar]

oh i thought we freed her out of possesion and then got possesed by the void

[lean garden]

thats not how I would think of it

[strange turtle]

…what did you think she was possessed by the first time?

[lean garden]

gah theres no real world analog that works the way I want it to work

[grizzled cedar]

idk entrati? alberct?

[lean garden]

oh! wait!

[glacial bough]

It's less cassette more vinyl

[digital lark]

Or like a CD

[glacial bough]

You can have a skip on a record, but the same song still plays

[hollow siren]

"Not even me? But we're old friends." with Voidtongue blaring as she says Friends wasn't a big enough clue?

she calls us Kiddo

[humble sierra]

Before 1999, she made a deal with Wally and he seems to have possessed her symbiotically somehow. Not fully one or the other. She had her old memories and old personality. But then we shoot her with the RPG, she is no longer possessed, and is completely confused. Then Wally takes her, Entrati, and Drifter away. She taunts us a bit while we're in the Zariman. Next we see Rusalka, it's in Isleweaver.

[lean garden]

while yes, that works better, casette is what kaya uses to describe it

I suspect she might have been too young to be vibing with vinyl

[grizzled cedar]

oh- i might need to search up whos wally- wait is wally the little evil tenno version of us???

[hollow siren]

The Man in the Wall

the unknown Void Entity first encountered by Albrecht, The Great Indifference, the Void Angels' master

[barren ember]

The Indifference

[grizzled cedar]

0_0

[barren ember]

At least now we have a giant sword to help us fight a wall

[hollow siren]

even the Infestation fears it

[strange turtle]

I wonder what the other Focuses will get

[hollow siren]

https://youtu.be/Es8uOniZzZI?si=43D5bAciWK8eAD0n

explains Albrecht first meeting it

[grizzled cedar]

ngl, i dont know why we never expected we would go to tau

[hollow siren]

We have theorized about it for like a decade by now

[lilac aspen]

It’s Void made
What if Wally pulls out their own variant

[barren ember]

imagine living your best life and then some old dude comes in and cuts off your finger, you'd be upset too. #justiceforwally

[drowsy aurora]

Hi, can someone help me with this mission? I have this mission maybe 10 years and i never find the message 😅

[hollow siren]

imagine not existing in a way we can think of, then suddenly you do and have a body, then that body gets severed. You can't go back to "existing" like you did before because now some "part" of you is missing in a way you could never understand

[summer heron]

It’s logical though, the star chart is pretty much filled up so why not go to a different system

[grizzled cedar]

true true

[humble sierra]

Calypso, Saturn

[barren ember]

I remember way way way back we always hoped to get the Tau system as a new star chart, so it's always been out there.

I'm sure you can find old dev streams where they talked about it as a possibility

[tall echo]

You know where you inbox is right

[grizzled cedar]

ohhhh wally. man in the wall. wally.

thats really funny actually

[hollow siren]

it's the community nickname

"The Man in the Wall" is what Rell called it, because that is how he could best explain what showed itself to him

[humble sierra]

Yeah the game only calls him The Man in the Wall or The Indifference (and other less-commonly used names you don't really need to remember, like The Lidless Eye)

[grizzled cedar]

wait are we ever gonna get like a side mission about stalky and the baby?

[untold lion]

maybe he just wants help getting outside the wall

[hollow siren]

It has like 15 names by now

[tall echo]

Mmaybr

[hollow siren]

The Indifference, The Wall of Bone, The Lidless Eye, The Smiling One

[humble sierra]

Yeah when it's needed. Jade Shadows only came out last year in June, right now the story doesn't have a need for it to be continued— but it IS marked as a main story quest, so it will be needed at some point

[drowsy aurora]

ofc i know, but i dont have this message in. I told it. I have this mission maybe 10 years. All other is done.

[grizzled cedar]

thank goodness...

[barren ember]

I mentioned it earlier in #tennocon-2025-chatter but the only follow up I need is a quest where Stalker just shows up one day and asks us to babysit

[lilac aspen]

It’d be Stalker dressed up like the Dad Stalker cosplay

[humble sierra]

You might've deleted the inbox message. It might be necessary, judging from the objective. If calypso doesn't launch a limited survival mission (countdown instead of counting up) that rewards another of her parts, it might be bugged and you'll want to contact DE

[lilac aspen]

DE have a side mission of Umbra, who isn’t piloted by Operator because they’re doing Old Peace, just tracking down Stalker to see how he’s doing

A Dad checking up on a fellow Dad

[modern trellis]

We need to see stalker drinking out of a worlds best dad mug

[humble sierra]

Needs to be a glyph at the very least

[lilac aspen]

I want that kind of stuff
Just Operator doing something keeping them mentally occupied, enemies approaching, and just Umbra jumping out of nowhere to throw down.

[humble sierra]

Something based off the cosplay

[pine orchid]

if Daklo is in fact talking to Adis when saying "Watch your mouth, void-lugger" (even though I'm sure that's us saying "Stupid" or maybe DE just forgot to label it as Adis saying it)
what does that mean? what kind of void is Adis lugging? is it in reference to us? like a pejorative "tenno lover" like we'd say "tree-hugger" ?

[lilac aspen]

Void LuggeR
Lugs around Void

Could imply the Tenno, due to their void powers
But could also imply Adis, who’s close friends with the Tenno

[pine orchid]

yeah that's the thing

in that gameplay demo, the line "Stupid" that Daklo seemingly responds to is unlabeled, which Tenno's lines in this scene is unlabeled while Adis' are

[grand junco]

Thoughts on tauron teachings to tenno focus schools?

[pine orchid]

maybe I'm thinking too deeply, and that "void-lugger" even if directed to Adis is like "ew Tenno lover"
but I was trying to see if maybe there's potential that the big Hunhullus might be controlled via Transference, that Adis is using Transference in that opening scene, and Transference is a void-derived technology too

[humble sierra]

Could be possible

[lean garden]

personally doubt that a sentient is using void derived technology on a whim

[pine orchid]

that's why the semantics of who Daklo is addressing in that scene is kinda important to me, it could lend credence to the idea

[barren ember]

I'd love some filler stuff every now and then, even if they were just short events with inbox messages, just what's the day to day like in the origin system. I love all the little moments during quests like that, like (I can't remember the quest) how we're just on the railjack doing resource farming before the events of the quest start. I think it's why I like the KIM messages so much, it's just little moments.

[pine orchid]

see that's the thing though, what if Adis is a new type of Sentient who can use void derived technology? Maybe they're even intending on replacing the Tenno with something they can better control like a Sentient?
the Sentient Archimedean references Adis' evolution and adaptation to the Tenno Ways

[glacial bough]

The Tenno Ways are just schools of philosophy

[pine orchid]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ballas is involved in that kind of project too, he would choose to ally himself with the Sentients as he did with Hunhow over using the void devils

[lean garden]

hmm, thats a massive what-if right there, the removal of the built in flaw. As AtsiaZ said, Tenno schools are primarily philophies

[pine orchid]

it is, but that's why I'm looking to see if there's anything I can find from the gameplay that might suggest/reject the idea

I feel like there was a line about restoring the Sentients' inability to reproduce somewhere, but I don't remember where or what the supposed cure might be

[lean garden]

temple kuva from the unum, gara fragments

[pine orchid]

maybe because Adis is that kind of new Sentient and he died and was left behind in Tau, that's why Pazuul is so bent on getting to Tau?

[rapid galleon]

is this channel appropriate to talk about the tau lore especially the upcoming quest?

[fleet furnace]

thats, what weve been doing since tennocon

[glacial bough]

This circle is gonna keep happening for the next couple of days

[summer heron]

I forgot Pazuul even existed

[rapid galleon]

im ngl i forgot about him or even what he was before until i see someone play the new war

[grand junco]

Adis piloted the hunhulus then floated down from its chest cavity hence so not a sentient that has transference

[fleet furnace]

more mech than transference yeah

[grand junco]

But it seems entrati saw these sentient mechas and saw potential but it gets time overlapping from there

[modern trellis]

Cause Adis didn't disappear when piloting it like a normal transferance

[mental widget]

hmm i am confuse, is Tauron Tower next to Sauron Tower ? , because they have similiar name

[grand junco]

Probably in 2026 tau

[pine orchid]

Adis looked like he flew directly out of the blue light to me, I didn't see him going down out of the chest cavity though maybe the light was obstructing him
but that's why I wanted to be able to play it even as a demo because I want to see if we can see where Adis is/came out of

like get a better view

[modern trellis]

Ok so I looked at it and it looks like Adis like formed it's body from the blue light

[terse kayak]

Hi guys
I finished all of the Warframe missions, but I finished some of them like 5 years ago, so I don't remember a lot and I don't understand what happens in the game

Is there anything that could help me catch up?
Like a youtube video or something

[fleet furnace]

orokin archives if you like reading

[eager dragon]

Have you also finished all the new quests?

[fleet furnace]

the computer in the sanctum has a recap of key story info up to wispers in the walls, other than that most quests are replayable

[terse kayak]

Yes, I'm done with all the quests, new too
I guess I'd like to learn a bit about Tau/orokin
Other than tau being a damage type I have no idea what that's about

[terse kayak]

Did not know about it, thanks!

[fleet furnace]

no worries, as for tau and orokin lore, its kinda all over the place

[pine orchid]

or behind it too, it was a little hard to see in the gameplay demo so I couldnt determine either way just from that demo

[modern trellis]

Fair

[brittle siren]

What kind of "all over the place" did you mean?

[fleet furnace]

scattered everywhere in the game, codex entries, zariman logs, fragments, dialogue in like 10 different missions on different planets

warframe really should have a central place to compile everything, codex does a good job of it, but theres so much more that isnt in there

[iron tiger]

Guys I think adis is part eidolon he has phantom arms

[hollow siren]

"Eidolons" are Sentient remains that have "Adapted" to death

[balmy mirage]

I don't know if this might be an unpopular opinion.But I don't like that.The devil frame is named after my 2nd favorite Arch angel

[hollow siren]

a Sentient can't be part-Eidolon

for Adis to be an Eidolon he would need to "die"

[iron tiger]

Then he’s a full eidolon

[hollow siren]

well it is a pretty big thing that angels can fall from grace

[balmy mirage]

And in the religion he specifically didnt

[iron tiger]

I’m ok with dialogue but honestly quests need to be longer and take course over nodes being cleared and other major events like mastery leveling

[hollow siren]

Dante Alighieri was also not an insane librarian who traveled dimensions

[north jolt]

I think they may also have a tenno named Denji

[iron tiger]

He should be named after metatron the angel

[balmy mirage]

Does he have some sort of religious significance question mark

[north jolt]

Wasn't there a letter of the alphabet we haven't used yet? I forgot which one

[minor egret]

I have a question how did the tenno reach tau if the zarimane didn't reach there
and why the dax is attacking the orokin isn't they there loyal servants

[hollow siren]

Dante Alighieri was an irl person, he wrote La Divina Commedia

[iron tiger]

U

[balmy mirage]

U

[north jolt]

Me?

[hollow siren]

I'm telling you you're getting too worked up on frames not matching their namesakes 1:1

[hollow siren]

Zariman fails -> Sentients are created -> Sentients go to Tau and build Solar Rail bridging it to Sol -> Ships can now go to Tau

[north jolt]

Some new upcoming frame is suppose to start with the letter "U" or so I've heard

[balmy mirage]

You're asking.
Me to and the person who wrote a book may have been in a library. I'll go look him up thanks

[hollow siren]

Uriel

[pine orchid]

trying to dive through orokin archives to find if there's hints to Pazuul's goals and how it might relate to what we see in Old Peace Tau and
this is my favourite line it made me lol so loudly when I first heard it XD

[iron tiger]

Imagine they start using weird symbols in warframe names like & or þ or ch or æ

[minor egret]

got it thanks man

[balmy mirage]

Those aren't weird symbols.That's another person's language. Relax colonizer

[minor egret]

now why the dax is attacking there masters or this is before the dax is loyal to the orokin

[fleet furnace]

only way it makes sense to me is the orokin are having an internal rebellion and the dax are getting split between sides

[iron tiger]

It’s a work of fiction don’t take it seriously. There are several different things in the warframe universe that are completely different to real life. It’s specifically built and ment to not be taken as serious and fact

[iron tiger]

Are you serious right now

[minor egret]

maybe they lost a war become there servants after it
cause we didn't see a dax fighting to the orokin side

[balmy mirage]

You see the problem with that is that it directly contradicts the image It's borrowing from.

Which feels intentional

[fleet furnace]

i mean, if were going to add another school make it since it doesnt exist outside of companions

[pine orchid]

this sounds plausible to me, we have Orokin who are sympathetic to Tenno or at least tolerate them (Albrecht? does Margulis count as Orokin?) and Orokin who despise Tenno (Ballas)
I'm sure there can be Orokin who hate the idea of treating Sentients as 'equal'

[balmy mirage]

And Dante is not far off from the real person.

[hollow siren]

Oberon and Titania also have no in-game connection despite being married in their old folktales

[balmy mirage]

Who said dante was insane

[iron tiger]

It is intentional but it doesn’t matter because it’s fiction we understand it to be not the truth and meant to be ineffective to reality and our general going ons outside of the game

[fleet furnace]

knowing the orokin, absolutely theres some who dont like that idea

[hollow siren]

He connected with The Indifference and it drove him mad

[nova pollen]

I'm curious if anyone has any theories about Hunhullus vs Hunhow?

[balmy mirage]

Obi and titania are references book a midsummer's night dream by shakespeare. Not actual fan lore

Fae

[hollow siren]

point still stands, their Warframes are not accurate to the namesakes at all

[iron tiger]

Lmao all that just to get shipped with nekros 😂

[hollow siren]

it's just a bit weird how you're getting weirdly upset by Uriel specifically

[pine orchid]

huh I didn't realize we have in this server 🤔
the name of the emote in my language would mean "protector" :D

[minor egret]

Hunhow was a farmer I think the other one was higher ranking than him

[balmy mirage]

Well I guess everybody's entitled to there opinion.

[pine orchid]

A farmer could be an allegory to how he was meant to terraform Tau though

[nova pollen]

This seems likely to me

[iron tiger]

When you don’t know what to say anymore:

[balmy mirage]

Well i'm Christian so that s why

[pine orchid]

maybe Hunhullus is Hunhow's 'type', like we how we have the Oculyst bodytypes of Sentients

[north jolt]

Yeah, LITERALLY just found out

[pine orchid]

we also never got to see Hunhow's full body before I think
maybe we could see an undestroyed Hunhow that would be interesting

[hollow siren]

yep, he would plow the lands and sow them

[nova pollen]

That could make sense! They do have the same sort of...crest around their shoulders, but Hunhow's is most of his body

[hollow siren]

We see him in the Erra flashback of Prelude to War

[pine orchid]

Hunhow at least seemed to be HUUUUGE just like the Hunhulus we saw

[balmy mirage]

No it's when I know that there's no point in talking to the person anymore. There's a reason why they don't use jesus and allah or buddha. But the fact is, you said it's not gonna have any effect. So you're already dismissing any sort of issue i have. I don't care anymore

[minor egret]

this start to make sense to me

[nova pollen]

I almost think Hunhow was bigger but I could be wrong

[glacial bough]

Hunhow is dozens of times larger than this Hunhulus

[nova pollen]

It's been a while since I've looked--ah

[wild wharf]

Wait, the relay is ON TAU?

[pine orchid]

hmm it's been a while since I've actually seen Hunhow too and especially compared to a warframe

[nova pollen]

(also: who is giving the rebel Dax their orders?)

[hollow siren]

the Tennocon relay is a Murex at Sol

[iron tiger]

Oh yeah I actually agree with that last sentence

[hollow siren]

hmm I wonder if it's a particular Orokin with a history for defecting

[iron tiger]

Do we wonder why they seemingly highlighted lua in the promotional art but nothing came of it?

[wild wharf]

Background looks the same as the most recent trailer which Is on tau tho

[iron tiger]

Something about faith of sol and lua right?

[pine orchid]

ah I dont remember this, Im gonna go check yt video

[hollow siren]

yes, it may be in Tau but the Tennocon relays aren't really "canon" per se

[wild wharf]

Its still pretty cool tho

[minor egret]

may be the one who override the Sentient we killed

[pine orchid]

during the tennolive though the murex goes through changes, from us seeing the sun to seeing twin blue stars and then being covered in a blue flower meadow

[balmy mirage]

@iron tiger you don't have to agree. Im not wrong

[nova pollen]

Yeah, I think it just serves as a teaser for The Old Peace

[pine orchid]

it kinda implied that while we were there we 'went on a journey' from sol to tau, though could be symbolic rather than the relay literally journeying to tau

idk I was tabbed out because I wanted to watch the gameplay footage

only tabbed back in every now and then and the changes already happened

[hollow siren]

yes, it's just to be a cool experience for the players

[sage zodiac]

I wonder if Tau will be a system and not a single open world as it seems to be. I hope there are more planets and missions like the ones we have in traditional Warframe.

[nova pollen]

I didn't get the impression it was an open world

[iron tiger]

With the previous statement you weren’t wrong but the importance of those specific figures is so much higher so it’s a false equivalence. It should also be noted that a lot of Abrahamic figures are inter-religious so no one is really entitled to their usage or their ability to prohibit others from using it.

[nova pollen]

People said the same thing about Hollvania, so...

[fleet furnace]

launching from the academy feels like a mission selector like in 1999

[pine orchid]

it does, but maybe when present Tau is released we might get more?

[nova pollen]

The captions described moons and orbit around Tau so I think Tau proper is a single planet, but it looks like we'll get a collection of different missions as per normal

[north jolt]

I thought Hunhow was more or less basically a sentient (no not the race) ship like whatshername Lotus's "mother"

[humble sierra]

That Grineer woman seems to be in charge of the rebellion

[hollow siren]

Tau is a solar system

[north jolt]

Oh lord this is horrible

[iron tiger]

Imagine that’s the worm queen

[hollow siren]

Warframe's version of the irl solar system Tau Ceti

[nova pollen]

fair

[sage zodiac]

Shut up, Void-lugger...

[north jolt]

Im not a Caliban main

[minor egret]

you mean praghasa

[north jolt]

Yeah her

I thought Hunhow was basically a unit similar to what Praghasa is

[nova pollen]

Hunhow seemed large enough to take flight to me, at least...

[hollow siren]

Hunhow and Praghasa were the original Sentients who birthed basically all others, so yeah

[glacial bough]

Hunhow is a full on capital ship sized Sentient

[iron tiger]

Yes warframe’s version is very different already I believe tau irl only has one star that’s like ours too

[north jolt]

Also I think the version of Hunhow we see, assuming he's just not being partially obscured, might be slightly smaller because of some damage he took way back?

[pine orchid]

oh this is Hunhow's half body?? from Erra quest

[glacial bough]

at minimum the same size as the full Plain Sentient

[hollow siren]

yep, Tau Ceti has one yellow star, Tau in WF is a binary solar system with one yellow and one blue star

[hollow siren]

yes, it's what we see buried in Uranus (heh)

[minor egret]

hunhow was framer
praghasa was carpenter
but they seam huge to there work

[lean garden]

bootis booty

[iron tiger]

It looks like they used it for some sort of daylight cycle, you’ve heard of day and night now get ready for blue and yellow

[nova pollen]

I thought seeing this in the tennocon relay was extremely cool

[north jolt]

Something tells me she wasn't LITERALLY a wood worker. I think just a metaphor for her being responsible for constructing homes or something. Hunhow could of been a literal farmer of sorts tho, maybe just a big ole' daddy combine

[pine orchid]

maybe then Hunhullus is a "Hunhow-like" type Sentient, like the terms human vs humanoid

[hollow siren]

it's a good workaround too to avoid retconning Mag Prime's codex entry while still keeping it somewhat accurate to irl Tau Ceti

[nova pollen]

One thing that really irks me though is in the narrative panel they don't pay as much attention to their continuity, deliberately so "or else the fanfic writers wouldn't have anything to work with" which just tells me they've never read fanfiction??

[hollow siren]

"Hun-" seems to be some honorific prefix yeah

maybe like how many sentients' names end with Lyst

but even then that's not their names

[minor egret]

at here size and she is able to consume sol i think she is able to build small planets and hunhow terraform them

[iron tiger]

We know sentients can expand by consuming not sure if HunHow has this ability though, or just actual ships, murexes were seen with what looked like incomplete sides so maybe they can expand too

[iron tiger]

Hunhow is from Mayan mythology

[pine orchid]

I meant half body as in, couldn't see the bottom half/full model that clearly

[iron tiger]

Spelled hunhau tho I think

[north jolt]

Makes sense, but now i also have to make something really stupid so brb

[nova pollen]

oh! I did not know that, thank you!

[lean garden]

thats not really what I understood from the panel, its more like they don't want to overexplain everything so the fanfic writers can do something. As shown by the use of their world building bibles they do consider continuity

[nova pollen]

That's not really how fanfic works though XD

[nova pollen]

And we already know that they have a...loose...sense of transitioning between one story beat and the next (All of New War, how we got to 1999, what was up with the reactor explosion, etc)

[nova pollen]

wow I remembered so little of Hunhow's actual appearance lmao, my bad

[pine orchid]

It does sound to me more like they do keep track of continuity internally, they're just not giving us the full picture
they say fanfic writers, but I mean there's us here theorizing about all sorts of lore too and I find that engaging Xd

[pine orchid]

oooh thank you!

[lean garden]

I remember reading old warframe fanfic before TSD, which heavily relied on operators not existing

[hollow siren]

I like how he looks somewhat like a plough, even if he didn't use his body like one

further cements his role as a "Farmer"

[lean garden]

"new"

[nova pollen]

I mean yes but they leave gaps that they really shouldn't leave. New War was cool but its continuity and cause-effect chain were a disaster

[hollow siren]

Back when it was believed the Tenno became the Warframes

[lean garden]

mhmm, they had a rhino prime jesus lol

[nova pollen]

That's where I started to sour on Warframe's continuity. I love its lore and I really want it to be good, I just...can't back it right now.

[lean garden]

or rather rhino prime quigon jin

[hollow siren]

I do really hate how the whole "Loid sends a Helminth to 1999 to make us a Warframe when Transfering to Arthur fails" thing is just fully from player assumptions and never shown to us in-game

because it makes perfect sense, but is never confirmed

[minor egret]

one point i cant get is why ballas is in charge wasn't they treat him like a pet in the new war prelude

[hollow siren]

That was an act to fool us and Natah

[lean garden]

ah, you might find purchase in ETA dialouge

[hollow siren]

Narmer is the fruit of Ballas' old collaboration with Erra during the Old War

[lean garden]

and in the KIMs

[nova pollen]

Best guess is writing team couldn't figure out whether it was an act or not and then they had to come down on one side or another. I've GMed enough games to know what having to pick an option at the last second looks like lol

[hollow siren]

That's still not a good thing, should've been shown during the quest

[nova pollen]

Using KIM dialogue to patch holes isn't good writing

[hollow siren]

Comparatively, using the KIM chats to explain lore details many players misunderstand/forgot is a good thing

[nova pollen]

yeah that I can agree with

[hollow siren]

like how Drifter did take the Deal

[pine orchid]

apparently Orokin Archives describe in the scene that Ballas broke character for a moment during that act, but it's not something I would've caught in one viewing of the quest and it's not like I can rewind it as I want with a youtube video
which, speaking of which Im gonna go see if I can confirm this 🤔

[nova pollen]

Lore? yes. Story? No.

[lean garden]

actually wait I want elaboration on "All of new war" being a disaster for continuity

[hollow siren]

He does smile when Natah starts talking about finishing the war

and Erra stutters a bit when Natah questions why Ballas is being kept, dismissing her questions

[lean garden]

because all is a very strong statement

[lean garden]

me and bro when fine shytt almost catches us

[pine orchid]

do you remember which part of new war this is in? was it in prelude or the actual quest? I wanna see if I can snag a clip of it

[hollow siren]

Then he just goes "screw it" when he can't come up with good excuses anymore

[hollow siren]

Third part of Prelude to War

[lean garden]

"ya YEET"

[nova pollen]

Why was the Zariman present for the Operator to go to before Angel of the Zariman? How did the Drifter end up in the camp with the Lotus? How did Drifter gain void powers? What happened to the rest of the tenno? New War feels like three quests that they shoved into one

It's maddening

And I'm not exactly the kind of person who ignores lore, either

("eternalism" is a cheap copout fwiw)

[nimble monolith]

It might as well have been Helminth/Lizzy themself, through the whole being omniscient and omnipresent somehow. Wanted to help Flare's buddy.

[lean garden]

Ah so "all" was just hyperbole got it

[pine orchid]

Foound it!
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxe0OiqgF1T7N3OpjkZjv0rUfcSTYVHEx_?si=Ecvl26aitIaNwxQi

[hollow siren]

Valid critiques, and TNW did go through several re-writes and some rushing

[nova pollen]

Yeah, I'll grant that the first act and the Drifter archon-hunting were pretty good.

[minor egret]

and where did the tenno go in the time the drifter was here and how did they switch back when lotus hit him at the end of the quest

[lean garden]

Although I will say that Drifter gaining powers is shown in the cutscene, although not explained in definitive words.

-# they hands touch

[iron tiger]

It’s explained that a lot of the system went into hiding which is why erra refers to us as “some drifter”

[lean garden]

although this I dont agree lolol

nothing copped out

[lean garden]

the tenno was trapped in a timeloop of their time in the zariman

[nova pollen]

(Personally I have been rethinking how my Tenno handled the new war, just because I don't see her as anything close to the "prime" Operator)

[lean garden]

I can tell you where your tenno was

-# opening scene rhino

[nova pollen]

joke's on you I only play Mag 😄

[hollow siren]

Operator finally remembered the Deal, but instead of like in War Within where Operator regained their powers, Drifter now gained the powers they were never given from The Deal. This effectively "syncs" the Drifter and Operator, making them have the shared existence they now have where both coexist in the Void, but in Reality only one is present at a time

[pine orchid]

I also disagree with eternalism being a cheap cop out, it's a way to explain how time travel could be achieved using science and eternalism is a real school of thought so... the game could be taking inspiration and expanding on that idea, which I personally find interesting

[lean garden]

its also very limited in actual application

we have 1 dude and his half of a ghost ship

[minor egret]

aha that make the flashback make sense

[lean garden]

oh and a psychic connection to your hot goth lady's nun alternate

Oh eleanor is not going to like the wisp proto

[nova pollen]

yeah this at least I appreciate. Do I feel like it is mainly there to "decanonize linear time" as the joke goes? Yes. But they've used it with more restraint than, say, Marvel.

[iron tiger]

Do you guys think that the drifters Zariman will be important at some point

[lean garden]

Im not sure I quite understand "decanonise" linear time, nor can I quite agree with it

[pine orchid]

as in, in game? are you talking about sevagoth?
I figured the entirety of the time travel as well as Drifter being around in game is one of the applications of Eternalism

[nimble monolith]

Gotta get to current Tau next year somehow!

[iron tiger]

Wonder if we’ll go to tau on it

[lean garden]

linear time is still there, its just not the only option in town

[minor egret]

I don't know why but I have filling that they are the same ship

[nova pollen]

there's a joke that Warframe's continuity is so poor that they decanonized linear time to fix it

[lean garden]

our own time travel to 1999 isnt even an application of eternalism in that theres no "alternative timeline" in play

[hollow siren]

it's kinda like the Void was doing a meta-level video sync. Both Operator and Drifter reached out their hands in a decisive action to desperately save others' lives. Operator remembered The Deal where they gained their powers, and thus Drifter also now had the powers, since them being "synced" means they're the same (my explanations barely make sense even to myself)

[pine orchid]

damn I didn't know that was a joke, but then agian I'm quite new to warframe

[iron tiger]

Eternalism is linear time parallel to other times and time loops

[lean garden]

caca's just our past

[nova pollen]

found it

[hollow siren]

Eternalism is the theories used to understand how Void "time" works in comparison to Reality's time

[iron tiger]

Yeah I guess you don’t know why because that makes no sense 😂

[lean garden]

Damn, I wish I could find it funny, because Im really just confused at the premise lol

like warframe's continuity isnt horrid to the point where this joke makes sense

[hollow siren]

There is only one Zariman. But the Void doesn't work like reality, so the same thing can exist in multiple Void places at once, while still just being one thing

[iron tiger]

What potholes and continuity was fixed exactly?

[pine orchid]

I'm talking about these, and the understanding that like theoretically it is already implying time travel is possible? particularly the last two lines

Euleria Entrati: "Presentism, the obsolete theory of linear time, posits that now is all that is real."
Euleria Entrati: "In this frame, the Present Absolute, the now, moves constantly toward the future."
Euleria Entrati: "And leaves the static past behind, discarded, consigned to unreality."
Euleria Entrati: "The future remains to be discovered, but is less real than even the past."
Euleria Entrati: "We see the shadows on the cave wall but not the hands that cast them."
Euleria Entrati: "The Void offers humanity the truer telling of Eternalism. That now is merely a facet of a great block."
Euleria Entrati: "It is relative... and we can change the frame."

[hollow siren]

yep, comparing Reality's linear time to how the Void's "time" is functionally boundless

[lean garden]

I mean sure, yes, the concept of eternalism allows for time travel by virtue of changing the frame, but what Im primarily referring to when it comes to "muh eternalism" is that there aint an alternate when it comes to 1999

[iron tiger]

What if each now is like a point in time that is connected to other points when it makes sense

[lean garden]

like technically even without eternalism, linear time enthusiates can still apply "change the frame"

they just need to see time as a river, and thems the fish

[hollow siren]

That's sorta how Void "time" seems to work yeah

[pine orchid]

yknow, I'm also confused because I have someone elsewhere telling me Eternalism means that present past and future is all real but set in stone and unchangeable and alternative timelines is impossible and The Void breaks that rule 😔

[lean garden]

eh?

thats like a major misreading lol

[hollow siren]

Eternalism is to describe how Void "time" breaks those conventions

[nimble monolith]

I wonder what precisely made Hunhow so desperate or angry that he and the others would void jump back, given the consequences. But I guess we will find out next year.

[pine orchid]

perhaps, or maybe I'm not understanding what they're trying to tell me about it 😅

[hollow siren]

if the Void is excluded, Eternalism has no relevance

[iron tiger]

I’m pretty sure I heard something about how timelines can be destroyed but they remain as a palimpest would

That is there are byproducts and leftovers

[lean garden]

present past and future is all real
Are equally real yes
set in stone and unchangeable
Absolutely not lol, whoever said that never read the Palimpsest of Space Time by E.Entrati
alternative timelines is impossible
It was literally covered in eternalism class

As Nick is saying, the only reason why warframe could apply/understand/study eternalism is because of the void

[hollow siren]

Void is weird and wonky. Eternalism is the name of the science of trying to understand Void's wonky "time"

[lean garden]

no void and we can just enjoy linear time only

[hollow siren]

it's not like eternalism is a force of nature

[lean garden]

but void is a thing, and linear time is still valid, but not a full picture of time

[pine orchid]

I have a whole forum post on my take of how time travel is possible and what void is and they were replying to that 😅
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1462874-thoughts-about-the-void-time-travel-and-theoretical-physics/#comment-13351673

[hollow siren]

it's just like how "Biology" is the study of life

[lean garden]

like an shadow image on a cave wall

[hollow siren]

Eternalism is the study of Untime

[flat acorn]

i wonder if teh human separatists will still be present when we go back to tau in 2026

[lean garden]

you will have to forgive me, I dare not step into the cesspools of the forums

[hollow siren]

Impossible to say, really. Tau has been isolated from Sol since the Old War. Anything could have happened

[pine orchid]

my first interaction was with the linguistic nerd vs voidtongue post, which was pretty alright I think all things considered
but understandable have a great day XD

not with the one who replied, I mean interaction with the forums

[nova pollen]

If the Old Peace predates the Old War, I doubt it. If it postdates, it's possible.

[hollow siren]

Voidtongue is fun cause there's a big difference between saying Voidtongue words and actually speaking Voidtongue

[lean garden]

everytime I go there its only to read through the patchnotes, I scroll too far and Im flashbanged by really hot takes

[restive river]

It’s said in the demo that we used to be at war with the sentients

[lean garden]

Old Peace currently appears to be inside the Old War

[hollow siren]

it happens during it. "The Old War" was a long period of time of recurring conflicts, not a singular war. Think of it like the irl "100 year war" or the Cold War

[restive river]

Old war > old peace > continuation of the old war

[nova pollen]

ahh. I didn't realize it was a series of conflicts

That definitely makes the most sense

[flat acorn]

also just noticed you can hear the "bad sentient" scream "help me adis" in the gameplay demo didnt notice that during the live

[restive river]

):

[hollow siren]

Hunhow's assault on the Origin System was among the last events during it

[hollow siren]

Adis 100% heard it too

[restive river]

Also the rail being destroyed iirc?

[hollow siren]

He did that during said assault

[pine orchid]

Yes! and there's discussion on voidtongue we find in lyrics of music too, because that's the closest we could get to actually spoken voidtongue
and considering Adrian Bott the lead on story is also the one writing the lyrics, they HAVE to be telling a story somehow too

[lean garden]

yea DE made sure you and Adis specically talk about "wow I cant believe our people used to be at war" just so we can locate where it was temporally in a general sense

[hollow siren]

jumped to Sol (which destroyed his "Womb"), destroyed Sol's end of the rail

[restive river]

So I was right :]

rip hunhow’s womb

[hollow siren]

I like how some songs have both humans saying Voidtongue words and actual spoken Voidtongue

[nova pollen]

Honestly that line threw me so much because the end of the demo implies we're descending into the Old War, but if it's a periodicization that makes sense

[lean garden]

it cant be after the Old War, because of what we experience with Hunhow, and it cant be before, because of that dialogue and yknow the existence of warframes

[hollow siren]

yep, it's why he can only make Fragments now

[pine orchid]

it was hard to hear, was this when Adis tells us to hurry before entering the cave or just before we confront?

[hollow siren]

he can't birth proper Sentients

[restive river]

Yee

[flat acorn]

when adis says to hurry

[restive river]

He’s stuck to 2 kids
One who sucks and the other who left him to have her own family

[lean garden]

Ohp, even more to the point of why Adis is shocked at you merking that sentient

[pine orchid]

oooh I could hear the "ADIIIIS" but I couldnt process what was said before oh no that's sad qwq

[flat acorn]

the separatist girl even talks about having kidnapped the sentient but she says it so weirdly lol

[nova pollen]

(I want to hug and protect Adis and I'm worried what will happen if we meet him in modern Tau)

[hollow siren]

One of his kids is leeching off one of his other kids

[lean garden]

some folks question why "trained combatants" like Adis and you have your ties shaken after some self-defence

[nova pollen]

OH YEAH that's an excellent question, where do the Archons fit into all this?

[pine orchid]

Tenno of the past better have given this baby a hug or I WILL RIOT

[lean garden]

(nevermind the nuance of killing someone who was supposed to be on your side, and a lil bit of specism(?))

[hollow siren]

Erra made them from the remains of the Sentient Beasts towards the end of the Old War, or shortly after it

[glacial bough]

They'd be post this treaty

[flat acorn]

he is genuienly cuter without the "face"

lovable fella

[indigo glen]

Another one of Ballas’s Victims
Yeah I’ll hug that boi

[nova pollen]

seconded, we must not leave Adis unhugged

[hollow siren]

still kinda iffy about these new takes on the Sentient eyes

[glacial bough]

The Archons fell in battle after Hunhow made the jump to Origin

[hollow siren]

I liked how emotive they made Sentients before to compensate them not having much facial movement

[restive river]

Lmao

[hollow siren]

I worry this might somewhat diminish that

[iron tiger]

Is adis an aerolyst?

[hollow siren]

yep, it seems Pazuul agreed and/or was convinced to follow Hunhow

[nova pollen]

adis is adis I think

[indigo glen]

Why is that boi sad?

[hollow siren]

he's unique

[pine orchid]

I don't know, their body type seems unique among the sentient

[flat acorn]

just before we confront i believe it says "truth-bloom" aka calling out to adis again

[nova pollen]

Because war is hell

[hollow siren]

we just killed his semi-conscious cousin

[lapis barn]

I think the thing with Adis, based on the dialogue from the teacher, is that his chassis was designed to better appeal to the sensibilities of the Seven, adding a face and softening the hard edges of their adapted forms

[hollow siren]

oh yeah it's 100% to fit Orokin ideals

[indigo glen]

https://tenor.com/view/sigma-gif-22622591

[pine orchid]

yknow, this is why I need subtitles I suck at processing sounds and words- QAQ

[indigo glen]

I see… Ballas

[pine orchid]

I htought they were calling out in Sentient-tongue

[hollow siren]

I imagine we'll see the Sentients slowly abandon the Orokin ideals and go back to their OG Sentient designs we know and love over the quest's duration

[indigo glen]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-gif-22921481

[iron tiger]

Mann I hope so I find his design kinda ugly ngl

[nova pollen]

the way we see them adopt red when they turn hostile to us? I'm inclined to agree

[glacial bough]

Pazuul wouldn't have a real choice, Hunhow is the one in charge

[lean garden]

Oh God no

[nova pollen]

I will say it's really cool to get a glimpse of the Empire at its height and where Tenno fit into that

[lean garden]

I see it now

[lapis barn]

If it’s any consolation, it doesn’t seem like most of them have even made that transition, the teacher and the conculysts we see have a color swap, but are otherwise the same model as ever

[hollow siren]

the Sentient Beasts were greatly revered and pretty much autonomous

[indigo glen]

https://tenor.com/view/sigma-gif-22622591

[lean garden]

Adis to the sentients will be their leader to a future with the Orokin, but Ballas engineered it for adis to be a sacrifice

[hollow siren]

Hunhow was above them yes, but he didn't really "rule" over them like he did other Sentients

[flat acorn]

its kinda weird tho, it adopted red eyes but most sentients we fight in the game now have blue eyes just red frames

[indigo glen]

Still waiting for Ordis lore

[glacial bough]

And yet still conscripted into being his daughters teachers

[hollow siren]

Ordan Karris

[indigo glen]

He must be somewhere during “flashback”

[lean garden]

Adis... means gift in arabic languages

[hollow siren]

maybe a mention

[hollow siren]

yep true

[glacial bough]

Autonomous doesn't mean they can ignore hierarchy

[native kernel]

i have questions regarding the minor side stuff in this game

[flat acorn]

adis is def unique considering they talk about showing his evolution to the orokin

[iron tiger]

Sentient adaptation is likely the explanation for why it turns red either that or sentients use color to display emotion

[native kernel]

about the deluxe skins, where do they fit into the timeline?

[lapis barn]

Speaking of, I wonder if we’ll ever explore how the Drifter met Ordis or how he got his new sentinel form

[hollow siren]

most deluxe skins are not canon

Only singular exceptions exist like Valkyr Gersemi

[flat acorn]

iirc skins arent canon usually

[native kernel]

yareli pandea says something about hunhow

[iron tiger]

Pretty sure I read something about skins needing to fit into the warframe universe

[hollow siren]

yes, still not canon

[nova pollen]

I've always assumed skins are just tenno artisans making their work available to others...

[iron tiger]

Like if your gonna do tennogen that’s a requirement

[glacial bough]

Now, Yareli Deluxe actually has reason to be canon thanks to the Jade Shadow lead up

[flat acorn]

they need to fit in yeah so that you make somthing thematically fitting, dosent mean theyre part of the lore

[hollow siren]

Deluxe skins are always "non-canon until directly, explicitly and indisputably proven otherwise"

[brittle siren]

This number may hinting at sth

[iron tiger]

Where are you quoting that from?

[flat acorn]

doubt it, prob just a refrence to last year lol

[hollow siren]

no, it's a joke on how last Tennocon announced "Unannounced Fall 2024 update"

[glacial bough]

It's not a quote

[brittle siren]

Then explain how Caliban deluxe, whose base skin a Sentient frame has zombie flesh then

[brittle siren]

Ohhh ok

[hollow siren]

it's not a quote, it's me explaining how deluxe skins are 90% of the time not canon

[glacial bough]

I don't have a hard quote, but the general knowledge of Deluxe skins is non-canon unless otherwise

[brittle siren]

Tbh at this point none of any skin really canon beside alt helmet

[glacial bough]

Yareli Deluxe is pretty solidly canon

[native kernel]

i first assumed that tennogen isnt canon but the non-tennogen ones were canon

[hollow siren]

many deluxe skins are designed by the community too

[brittle siren]

I heard someone debunk it that skin isn't canon anymore

[hollow siren]

and even then some DE-made skins aren't canon

[glacial bough]

That's a strong claim they'd have to prove

[brittle siren]

Could you quote her skin description in here

[native kernel]

also, umbra. he has a alt helmet? how

[iron tiger]

It’s canon

[brittle siren]

The one that has his face show out is canon
Also most helmet is canon, evidently Kullervo alt helmet

[glacial bough]

"With the fall of the Orokin, Yareli Pandea drifted into the ocean's depths where Hunhow rediscovered her. Now, she ascends to fight once more."

[brittle siren]

How would she fit in the base Yareli lore though

[indigo glen]

Drifter: Stay in 1999 while getting more people to date with, Albrecht Entrati still MIA.
Operator: Animus Sessions with Mama Lotus and Papa Loid

[hollow siren]

This isn't proven canon until Hunhow himself shows/mentions her, or we see her in his tomb

[brittle siren]

Yeah it seem strange that he could make Pandea even moving again

Nvm he did controlling Chroma

[hollow siren]

Drifter is healing by experiencing the life they missed, Operator is healing by discovering the life they forgot

[glacial bough]

Hunhow does mention her, that's part of the point of Shadows Lament

[brittle siren]

He talking about Jade...

[indigo glen]

And All this happened because Captain Vor want to bring Warframe for his two queens

[hollow siren]

That's referring to Jade

[brittle siren]

He want to bring our frame to the Queens

[indigo glen]

Oh sorry.

[indigo glen]

I just fixed that, thanks

[glacial bough]

A Yareli fell during the war and eventually drifted into Hunhow s path recently

[brittle siren]

So yeah Pandea seem like a alternate what if than real canon
Because if that so Ballas make 3 versions of Yareli who he hated the most

[hollow siren]

well we were gonna awaken regardless, Vor intercepted that

[glacial bough]

And a section of the Lament specifically talks about Hunhow finding the Yareli

[brittle siren]

Last time I check no Yareli look like that, especially the one that we saw in the comic from Ventkid

[pine orchid]

so... more Eternalism? Xd

[brittle siren]

Quote it pls

[indigo glen]

Maybe, if only we can revisit the place where we first awakened (not second dreams)

[brittle siren]

It a what if story, not really Eternalism since it never happened

[hollow siren]

Awakening is replayable

[indigo glen]

Okay

[hollow siren]

No? Void has no connection to this

[pine orchid]

ah a what if story, right not alternate timelines gotcha

[hollow siren]

Eternalism isn't even alt timelines. Reality's time is a singular timeline. Void's time is not a line at all.

There's one line and one (weird shape)

both are the same thing, just different views of it

[dawn shoal]

To me it's at least plausible to headcanon most deluxe skins as canon (unless there's something too contradictory in between preestablished lore and their descriptions) if you think of them as alternate original design variants for their frames; since non-original frames of a specific variant take on the same physical appearance (unless Primed) as the original iteration of each frame. Obviously it's not established canon that they're alternate design originals, but it works well enough for me until they do something else with the lore as it interacts with deluxe skins.

[pine orchid]

timebranches then?

[indigo glen]

I’m sure this is before They enter cryosleep.

For a long long time

[restive river]

Because he asked her-

[brittle siren]

Nvm Yareli Pandea is canon
Hunhow: Another of their number flows past my sodden grave. Did you see her, my Shadow? Of course you did… So unlike your perfunctory skulking, she rises resplendent—full of brazen, fragrant life. In my own lost vibrancy, oh how I would have reveled in snuffing out her playful joy!

Unfortunately, something beat me to the task, delivering only a wounded husk into my grasp.

I grow sentimental in my rot. Else I’ve been down here long enough to find kinship with my fellow jetsam. Instead of final death, I offered her the insult of rescue. A worldshaper’s breath “adapting” her shape to better survive our shared prison. And still her spirit did not break, my Shadow!

[hollow siren]

No. Time is a single line in Reality, but boundless in the Void

[hollow siren]

oh damn yeah

[restive river]

Eternalism is not accessible so it largely doesn’t matter tbh
Except for like
The drifter

[hollow siren]

Eternalism isn't even a concrete thing, it's a field of science

[brittle siren]

So wait
Pandea is the og Yareli that dead?

[hollow siren]

a theory of physics

[hollow siren]

we don't know if she's the Original, but it's possible

[restive river]

No

[brittle siren]

Oh ok

[glacial bough]

Unfortunately, something beat me to the task, delivering only a wounded husk into my grasp.

I grow sentimental in my rot. Else I’ve been down here long enough to find kinship with my fellow jetsam. Instead of final death, I offered her the insult of rescue. A worldshaper’s breath “adapting” her shape to better survive our shared prison. And still her spirit did not break, my Shadow!```

[restive river]

Hunhow changed her :/

[pine orchid]

I don't understand what you mean with this statement unfortunately 😔
is it like time is not a line (1d) but more akin to square (2d) or a block (3d)?

[glacial bough]

Yarelia Pandea specifically exists because Hunhow found her and had a moment

[brittle siren]

No I mean when he found her
Is she the Yuvan girl that Ballas said in her Prime trailer

[restive river]

No.

[brittle siren]

Ok

[restive river]

She was a normal yareli

Then Hunhow altered her

[hollow siren]

Time exists.
When in reality, it's a strict line with no paths or alternates.
When in the Void, it's not a line at all, it's not even a solid shape.

[native kernel]

i know alt helmets are canon, like how drusus talks about the alt helmets atleast

[dawn shoal]

I think of it like if the way Everything Everywhere All At Once looked at the multiverse, but if they only accessed everything everywhere all at once via the Void, there's no real split in universes outside of through the Void, and if there would be like an Alpha Universe or something it would be the timeline the Operator is in most likely (?).

[brittle siren]

Wait

Hunhow: How much do you recall, my Shadow? Do you even remember what came before this time of scars?

Your masters sent steel and flesh to cross the gap: clay they wished to rule and sculpt into a new and toxic paradise. Laughable. Even at the end, they never truly understood the answer lay not in things their stolen, blue-bloated fingers could covet.

[hollow siren]

Reality and the Void are technically all that exists. They just have different ways of existing. Concepts like "time" and "space" are how we understand these ways

[brittle siren]

Cross the gap? What gap is he mentioning?

[dawn shoal]

since Eternalism sees the past, future, and possibility in general as equally real as the reality in the universe away from the Void

[dawn shoal]

between Tau and Sol is what I thought.

[hollow siren]

between Sol and Tau

[brittle siren]

So he basically already tell us some detail about Old Peace long before

[hollow siren]

they sent steel (sentients) and flesh (zariman colonizers, which failed)

[dawn shoal]

yeah pretty much

Tbh flesh also probably refers to how a lot of Orokin tech (like the Towers) involved some kind of fleshy bioengineering to create it in the first place but Zariman makes the most sense as what he directly is referencing.

[brittle siren]

I mean Warframe is also steel and flesh

[hollow siren]

yes, but those could only start to be sent once the Solar Rail was built

[dawn shoal]

True, but they're often both at the same time (biosteel via the Infestation) and the Warframes were specifically made to fight the Sentients.

[brittle siren]

Also does the Sentient even know Zariman incident

[hollow siren]

Sentients were created because the Zariman failed

[pine orchid]

void time is soup got it
-# (doesn't get it)

but I mean, the Eternalism presentations make mention of a 'split' in the timeline when more than one outcome of an event is possible and called it an alternate reality
so I figured at the very least branching is possible, we have Drifter from an alternate reality thing too

[brittle siren]

Read again

Do they know?

Unless Hunhow go read some DELETED data about Zariman, he couldn't have known about it

Also since Orokin also send our OP to Tau, it also mean flesh here is us (count the Grineer and Dax too)

[dawn shoal]

Pazuul references "the holy Zariman Flame" in Archon Hunts, and the Sentients in the Old Peace get along with the Tenno, who probably remember the Zariman much better in that time, so I assume a lot of them do. At least the ones in the Origin System do if Pazuul and the Archons do.

[pine orchid]

also still looking for the whether or not pazuul mentions his reason for Tau, and I found this.... hear me out
he's hearing voices from someone on Tau using Transference Xd

[hollow siren]

Ballas Vitruvian mentions it, so he at the very least knows it from that

[dawn shoal]

I've been thinking of the Void lately as acting in a similar capacity as the Greek mythology of Chaos somewhat. It's the primordial soup outside of space and time that the energy to create/sustain the universe and its matter comes from. It's just the more sci-fi leaning version of it imo

[brittle siren]

Oh yeah that

[pine orchid]

something similar to me, whatever is outside the universe pre-Big Bang

[brittle siren]

Adis probably

[hollow siren]

well Pazuul lived in Tau before dying and being revived as an Archon. It's fair he wants to go back

[pine orchid]

but can Adis use Transference?
that's the hypothesis I'm working with atm and it's a very interesting thought yknow

[brittle siren]

They did learn the Tenno way
And seem like they could kinda control the giant "mech"

[nimble monolith]

Oh-ho. I read through some stuff again and we won't need the Zariman to get to Tau, as it is not safe to move it anyway. But the cargo it holds! It has the material for a new solar rail on board, so our broken starting point could be fixed. And our Railjack can handle the smaller void jumps just fine.

[hollow siren]

Adis has his song, Erra told Natah to "sing" to call the Sentient army to fully enter the Origin System

[dawn shoal]

I do have the theory that there may still be humans on Tau with the Sentients who were left behind, and I know people have theorized before that it's very possible that there were Tenno fighting there in that system who were cut off by Hunhow severing the Solar Rail at the end, perhaps ones that missed whatever made the rest return and enter the Second Dream.

[hollow siren]

Pazuul could also be trying to repair the rail

[brittle siren]

I wish we could hear Lotus/Rebb singing

[onyx compass]

can someone explain the whole old peace thing to me? I'm confused if this is an alternate timeline or just a weird vision thing that's not real

[pine orchid]

that's true... do we know if it's explicitly Sentient army from Tau?

[hollow siren]

the voice in This is What You Are is canonically Margulis/Lotus

[pine orchid]

It's been referred to as our past and memories, so real history

[glacial bough]

No, it's Sentients that had been lying in wait from the Old War

[hollow siren]

yes, they've been slowly amassing since The Old War, hiding at the system's edge waiting for the plan's final part

[glacial bough]

Nothing from Tau has made it over since the Old War

[brittle siren]

This part of Hunhow is realy cryptic

[hollow siren]

ok actually yeah true

[nimble monolith]

But wouldn't another travel be fatal to them? Maybe Lotus could offer the blueprint, too, or Hunhow

[brittle siren]

Why the you is in italics

[hollow siren]

they are from Tau, but not coming from there

[dawn shoal]

There's other references in the lore to song having some kind of importance to the Void and Void powers/abilities (perhaps because singing as an art has such a close relation to human emotion?). The Void Conjunction/Orokin Continuity lore references a Soprano being assigned to the Seven's continuity each Void Conjunction to help "bridge the gap between worlds", or otherwise a manachord would be used. And there's what feels like a related reference to Luscinia being a soprano in Duviri too.

[hollow siren]

"And I beheld a great Ram, and the horns of him were crowned with Sol, and with Tau. And upon his tongue, the Zariman flame. And the mighty daemon of the Void, cowered before him. And he feared it not."

[pine orchid]

that's kinda the part I'm stuck on, because afaik we've been cut off from Tau
no communications, no travel, nothing
so how could Pazuul hear voices from Tau? how does the voice reach Sol system?

though I am kinda understanding it as in, like they basically cut the telephone lines between Tau and Sol as well when they destroyed the Solar Rail

[hollow siren]

yeah I was slightly wrong, they're Sentients left at Sol since the Old War

that was the only proper link to Tau yeah

[dawn shoal]

I also think Pazuul is either trying to repair the Rail or maybe based on Excavation lines in Archon Hunts, build up something to alternatively power Praghasa without consuming the sun in the process.

[hollow siren]

yep

[pine orchid]

so we don't have precedence of any other Sol-Tau communications, any possible travel that doesnt involve taking thousands of years to go there involves the Void
so maybe the "voices" is being transmitted through the Void?

[hollow siren]

or Pazuul is literally just insane

that's also an actual option

[dawn shoal]

I think the Void just hurts them. It might not always be fatal, and either way I think there are ways around that weakness causing them fatal damage (Natah/The Lotus spent millennia on Lua while it was in the Void, and while its very possible she has a deal with Wally that might help her there, it's also unclear if that would have even happened before Lua left the Void at this point).

[pine orchid]

might be an interesting theory, and I'm only hyping myself up more for the Old Peace update 😫

[hollow siren]

it cripples their Adaptation, which often led to them dying

[pine orchid]

it is indeed an option, but a less fun one to me! Xd

[hollow siren]

but Hunhow was permanently damaged by his jump

[pine orchid]

they called us insane for hearing the call of the Void too

Rap. Tap. Tap. MARA LOHK

[dawn shoal]

if he is insane, it is also possible that it's because a certain someone is rap-tap-tapping on his mind.
though that guy normally functions through dopplegangers.

[glacial bough]

Void Exposure will straight up kill most Sentients

[hollow siren]

yep, and the line about Pazuul having "the Zariman flame" is very interesting regarding this

[hollow siren]

could be the "zariman flame" mentioned in the praise about him from seemingly Erra's perspective

[pine orchid]

what if he's become/is becoming the 0.01% of bacteria not killed by Void sanitizer?

[dawn shoal]

Okay yeah that's what I was looking for XD
it doesn't mean they would have to die but like it's still dangerous. like trying to cross the ocean on a square rigged sailing ship, no one's absolutely guaranteed they won't wash over the edge when a wave hits.

[glacial bough]

We know Sentients can survive in the Void with sufficient defense, and there's no way Ballas wouldn't have made Lotus' Lua chamber protected

[hollow siren]

Would be interesting, since Amalgams effectively are that already, and Pazuul unlike the other Archons is 100% Sentient

[dawn shoal]

that second point is very true and something i haven't thought of for some reason before now actually

[nimble monolith]

What if the flame of the Zariman is what it uses for navigation? What if he got his claws on a finger?

[dawn shoal]

If Pazuul has a reliquary drive... that could make a whole lot of sense.

[pine orchid]

yknow it seems relevant now and it's now difficult for me to focus on this, but I had the hypothesis that the Void is a manifestation of entropy

[dawn shoal]

there's bound to be a leftover something from old war Railjacks other than the Tempestarii and the one our Tenno put together left somewhere in the system.

[pine orchid]

mostly because of this (Archon shard item description)

A source of anti-entropic radiation ideal for empowering synthetic lifeforms, most notably Archons and Warframes

[sage moat]

not a bad idea either cause of how wally talks in isleweaver

[dawn shoal]

And the description of temporal dust as well

[pine orchid]

I had a hypothesis that Sentients' weakness is entropy
Entropy is a measure of equilibrium of energy, and a system with high entropy is very unlikely to change
Sentients whole thing is their ability to change and adapt
in game, their weaknesses are: Void, Cold, Radiation
I had a theory that Void might be the manifestation of the force of nature that is entropy, "The Void longs for stillness"
Inflicting cold on something is taking away heat from them, which is increasing their entropy
I just couldn't link this idea to the radiation part yet and that's why I was trying to research and understand the concepts of entropy and radiation better 🤔

[nimble monolith]

So the Sentients traveled for an unimaginable amount of time, leaving behind rail pylon after rail pylon, slowly splitting from one or two into more and more pieces, while gaining personalities. And then they figured out the Orokin would never get enough and decided stopping them. So they went back through the rails, which apparently isn't a void jump, as the Zariman had a final rail on board so the Orokin wouldn't have to void travel after them. Now. Why did Hunhow jump?

[glacial bough]

The Rails are Void Jumps, it's the reason they're sterile

[nimble monolith]

Strange. Then maybe the wiki is wrong about that final rail pylon

[glacial bough]

There weren't any pylons to begin with

[iron tiger]

It also ruins their wombs

[glacial bough]

The Solar Rails just have an enter point and an exit point

[dawn shoal]

My takeaway on the Void so far is: it is entropic, full of energy, yet still called the Void because being mostly Void energy it doesn't and didn't initially look like it was anything. It might be a sci-fi variation on Chaos from ancient mythology, the place where everything in reality originates pre-Big Bang via all that energy, or something similar in concept. There are different "areas", or places where the Void behaves/appears slightly differently than others, like Granum's Void, Duviri, the Great Indifference, and the more generalized Void we see via Railjack travel or entering an Orokin derelict there.
It is also where Wally is, though he's a whole can of worms on his own.

[iron tiger]

Wdym? Are rails and pylons different or wha

[nimble monolith]

Huh. I figured that was only true for the comparatively small origin system, while they had a whole route to Tau.

The song mentioning a million pylons referenced them too, no?

[dawn shoal]

I don't think there's ever been any direct reference to pylons outside Lullaby of the Manifold in the teasers recently.

[pine orchid]

it could very well be, in the sources I learnt about entropy from it has also been likened to a state of chaos/disorder so there's more parallels there
and there is something about Conceptual Embodiment in play in the game, could be something like giving a 'push' to all that latent energy floating around in the void

[dawn shoal]

Each planet has its own enter/exit point, and we have to reactivate them one by one in order to reach successively further planets when clearing the star chart.

[dawn shoal]

Oh yeah, and that push could be someone's mind being either copied/transferred over if they die in a state of extreme emotion; thinking of the Holdfasts and what you learn while ranking them: ||They each seem to have originally died in some sort of dramatic/emotional/violent way originally before becoming the conceptual embodiments they are now, if I recall correctly||

[proper barn]

okay the sentients go to tau to build their half of the solar rail

[pine orchid]

pylon apparently is also used to refer to a part of an aircraft, which could relate to the "who but we will tame the sky" line in the song too maybe... potentially

[proper barn]

they where supposed to die while building it.

[nimble monolith]

Sure, but the Zariman has another rail piece according to the wiki, so it sounds like they must be put in certain distances from each other other

[strange turtle]

That could very well be the case for a few, or pre-fall orokin ones. But there is a definitive case of this for a set of skins, don’t remember which

[dawn shoal]

I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be the Tau point, at least an important component of it (probably having its own Finger copy) so that they colonists wouldn't have to spend an excessive amount of time building all of it when they got there.

[pine orchid]

spooky void ghosts! XD
I havent finished their ranking yet technically and I dont remember what they say during the rank up cutscenes... I might need to revisit them

[nimble monolith]

The stars are the sky, too, which they were meant to tame for the Orokin by building the rails to Tau, I guess

[glacial bough]

The Zariman was meant to make a Rail after they arrived

[strange turtle]

To clarify, with my first bit I mean it could be but that’s not like a proper solid fact, you it’s fine to just run with it as headcanon since it doesn’t effect anything much

[dawn shoal]

Yeah I haven't in a while but I do remember a bit, plus they make more and more references to their pasts in passive voice lines as you rank and I've been building standing for finishing my arcanes and getting Hombask's stuff recently so I've been reminded XD

[iron tiger]

Oh shit so there’s a possibility its intact

[nimble monolith]

Yeah, that's what I meant earlier. So there can or must be many junctions/pylons along the way, the intended extra in the Zariman storage for Orokin comfort

[iron tiger]

So is the outer terminus rail deactivated or destroyed?

There could be some big implications here

[dawn shoal]

I have a theory that the two blue-lit, linked stars we see when on Tau are actually Tau's star and Sol both, that the mechanics of how the connection between the enter and exit points change a bit between systems, and something about the Extrasolar Rail being active makes them and their solar rail connection visible from both systems. Which could support a Rail only needing to have an enter/exit point at each "stop", most likely.

[iron tiger]

The stars looked like one was yellow and one was blue at times no?

Maybe that changed over time

[strange turtle]

Found it. The Ormolu skins for the bolto/akbolto, tipedo and daikyu are stated to be a custom edition forged by Tenno artisans, alongside a variant of a syndana, Kyroptera.

Additionally, the Forged Artistry pack says that the Paris, Kunai and Anku were forged by Tenno artisans too

[dawn shoal]

It does seem like the light color was changing here and there? Maybe two Rail-linked systems, due to the Void power in the Extrasolar Rail, cause their colors to fluctuate between Voidish blue and their original yellow.

[strange turtle]

Though the paris and anku descriptions already confirmed that

[dawn shoal]

Which could actually be the "day/night" cycle for a new open landscape in the Tau system if we get one, come to think of it.

[nimble monolith]

Well, I still say the rail in the Zariman could be used to replace the origin system rail which Hunhow blew up. And the rest of the way we navigate through the void with our Railjack the old fashioned way

[dawn shoal]

Whatever happened I think it might have caused or be related to whatever creates Void Storms and Void Fissures in the Sol system, since there's nothing in the lore so far that says they happened before the end of the Old War. At least, they definitely aren't something anyone has detected from Earth in 1999 that we know of. Maybe they'll bring up Void storms and fissures in a KIM chat eventually and we'll get more context from Eleanor or Lettie or one of the new Protoframes later this year.

[pine orchid]

does anyone happen to have a screenshot or something of the tau stars?

[dawn shoal]

hang on

[pine orchid]

all I remember is seeing the blue linked stars and thinking "is that one star eating the other one???" XD

[dawn shoal]

I thought I did but I don't, rip 😔

ooohhh wait i'm ingame so i can just hop into the sol relay

[pine orchid]

ooooh 👀

[dawn shoal]

okay this is how they look from the relay behind the hunhullis

there's a few faint energy strands there at least

[pine orchid]

wait the hunhulus is still there?? omg

[nimble monolith]

I'm not home until Thursday, then I will finally see it for myself!... And the demo on a proper screen

[pine orchid]

I have to go check it out again when I'm in game again

[iron tiger]

That exactly what’s happening

Except one looks yellow

[dawn shoal]

Ohh yeah funky
from Sol, they both look blule, but from that Tau moon in the demo, Sol looks yellower and Tau still looks blue but faintly yellow at the same time.

No wait when I look closer at the screenshot they both just seem white with Tau/the big one looking fainter

from the Tau moon, I mean

[iron tiger]

I noticed that too it could just be some atmospheric perspective changing the color

[dawn shoal]

yeah, and like we know all we've seen of the system so far is on a moon of one of the planets, and most of the life seems to be humans, sentients, and those Sentient lotus-like flowers, so this place could be doing it through the sky 🤔

[pine orchid]

is the colour changing only visible in the tau demo? it doesnt change at all in the relay does it?

[dawn shoal]

No I haven't seen it change in the relay, though I missed most of the transitions that happened during Tennolive because I was watching the Twitch stream, someone in my clan was just calling them out as they happened cause he was watching on a device and playing on another.

[pine orchid]

I wonder if maybe it's something to do with atmospheric light bending things, like how our sun can look white or yellow or reddish
like maybe some atmosphere/space dust stuff is making the stars look different

[dawn shoal]

ohhh true

[pine orchid]

me too 😭

[dawn shoal]

But then something else would have to make both look blue from the relay, since we're on Murex wreckage and don't have a planetary atmostphere

[iron tiger]

Different color based on the planets would be sickkkkk

Imagine a red sun like in eastern paintings

[dawn shoal]

Okay so from the Tauron school over the atmosphere, this is what it looks like out that window behind the Ballas hologram

Tau's star looks uh. Looks a fair bit Voidy there.

[pine orchid]

the smaller star looks very intensely white and bright

[dawn shoal]

Do we think that an Extrasolar Rail, whatever the physical component may be, might actually use a star itself as the entry/exit point? is there anything to contradict that?

[restive river]

It’s just blue

We knew tau’s star was blue already :p

[dawn shoal]

True, but it has a dark core. Stars don't generally have those

if you look up blue giants, white dwarfs, and even neutron stars, they at least aren't ever depicted like that by astronomers or in photos from space telescopes, at least.

this one has a bit dark spot at least.

[iron tiger]

The bigger star probably has heavier elements that aren’t fusing but still makes it more massive

The small one probably has mostly hydrogen

[pine orchid]

it does look kinda like this but blue though, so maybe it's just a little dimmer?

[dawn shoal]

yeah, though Tau's star is supposed to be near identical to ours, just a bit smaller

[pine orchid]

it's hard to say, because the one at the relay doesnt look like that

[dawn shoal]

that's fair, but I'm still suspicious 😋

[pine orchid]

oh I just remembered something
in one of the Lua tilesets there's a void mirror, and looking through it if you look at the direction where earth is you see like a black hole in the void
and similarly so if you look the direction away from earth

[iron tiger]

Screenshot?

[dawn shoal]

something is still behind the changing of the light's color on the world itself, and something is still making Sol blue on the relay, because atmosphere shouldn't do that.
so I'm thinking Void stuff might be behind the blue in the first place 🤔

[dawn shoal]

i've been thinking about that!

[minor egret]

any one think that margulis may be alive in the flashback

[pine orchid]

not sure if related, just thought it was similar in them having solar junctions might mean something

[pine orchid]

I think it's possible, I'm hoping we see more of her story at least

[dawn shoal]

that's what makes me think it's possible that stars themselves could be a relay entry/exit point for extrasolar rails. Stars just might have some kind of Void counterpart that make entry/exit easier.

[pine orchid]

dont have one and not in game, I only found that room like once in all my lua explorations

[iron tiger]

Oh nuts 🤧

[dawn shoal]

I think the things we see in the Void Mirrors are the same "black pin stars" Albrecht mentions seeing in his requiem logs on Deimos

[dawn shoal]

I have the captura and have been meaning to look at it for a bit now, i assume that's easier than finding it in the tileset XD

[pine orchid]

it could be, though earth also being a star in the void is interesting...

[pine orchid]

darn that would-
oh! do you happen to know/hqve one of sanctum anatomica?

[iron tiger]

I believe the reverse reality he described was a universe where light travels instantly and black holes serve as safe spots from the highly concentrated rays of lights

[pine orchid]

I havent been playing with captura very much but uh... how free is the camera in captura?

[iron tiger]

You know what I think one is probably a neutron star

Neutrons stars are bright af

One of Hottest objects in the universe

[minor egret]

i think we have to see margulis cause she isn't dead yet
she died after the sentients rebel and the lotus start spying on the orokin

[dawn shoal]

okay i have investigated the Void Mirror in captura and I think I've found a couple things!!

[lean garden]

she uh, has to die before the Lotus arrives

[nimble monolith]

No, Margulis died before the full deployment of the Tenno

[dawn shoal]

That would be concerning since neutron stars are only created after a star goes supernova, and Tau IRL has not gone supernova nor is it a star that's supposed to have enough energy to be capable of it...

Here is the mirror facing away from Earth (you can see it in the background)

I suspect that void object is either Earth or the Sun

[iron tiger]

It may have been a rogue neutron star from the earlier days of the universe

I’m not sure how else it would form as a binary star system

[pine orchid]

huh! that void thingy looks quite similar to what we see behind ballas, the one you called out having a black center

[dawn shoal]

I'm starting to think it isn't a binary system, hang on I'm getting to the screenshots that show my evidence XD

[dawn shoal]

This is looking at a completely different angle, in a different direction. The one before at least lined up with Earth, which if the Void Mirrors act more like windows into the void, would make the last object at least connected to Earth. This one... might be Mars if that's true?

[nimble monolith]

The visible wavelengths could be affected by a Dyson swarm if the Sentients need lots of power over there

[iron tiger]

So you think one is a portal eating the star?

Seems unlikely ngl

[dawn shoal]

And it took some hopping around and following the mirror as it spun, but each of those two objects is connected to each other by a strand of Void energy, like these here (note that they are identical to the strands connecting the two suns in the Old Peace demo and the Murex Sol relay)

[dawn shoal]

Not eating the star, probably

[pine orchid]

perhaps... I remember investigating it with my friends but we couldn't determine what it was exactly
we did think it might've been one of the planets closest to earth though

[dawn shoal]

But it could be a portal

[pine orchid]

ooooh yknow that would be so cool! this map has been in the game for a while and we might have more context to what it means now?

[iron tiger]

Nahhh it’s a binary star system

[nimble monolith]

Not Mars. The Heart.

[pine orchid]

do you think maybe that the window behind ballas is made of void glass

[dawn shoal]

Anyways I think each black orb at leasts represents a planet within the Void, and each strand of Void energy is actually the solar rail connecting them, when we're in Railjack it feels kind of like a Void tunnel when we travel, which would mean reliquary drives and Solar Rail pick up people, shoot them through Void tunnels, and drop them back out in the exit point

[dawn shoal]

well there's two of them, which means there's two Hearts or Heart like objects visible here.

[summer heron]

Maybe seriglass I think it’s called

[pine orchid]

whatever the voidmirror thing is made of, if that is it XD

[dawn shoal]

no, you can see the atmosphere of the world and its rocky surface, whatever is going on at the star is just whatever that sun is doing

Or maybe seriglass/whatever Void mirrors are made of is doing something when you look at a star through it, no way of knowing for sure.

[nimble monolith]

Just saying. If something in the general direction of Mars is doing Void stuff, it is the Heart

[dawn shoal]

and they're connected through the Void

[flint wyvern]

is the tau "part" of our sun - moon?

[nimble monolith]

A whole different solar system

[dawn shoal]

I think that would make the most sense if there weren't two of them here, though I would expect to see the Heart's effects show up in the Void. Maybe since it isn't actually /in/ the Void it wouldn't appear

seeing as what we see through the Void mirrors is in the Void and the Heart is in our universe on Deimos.

[pine orchid]

the black holes do kinda make me think of like... wormholes

[dawn shoal]

anyways I found out how to get a full look at the one in Earth's direction at least 😂

You can wall latch to the mirror to get a better angle for a moment or two

mirror-go-round

[nimble monolith]

It is the void conduit though. If not in the void, from where it pumps the void juice, where else would it be visible? But, yeah, why would there be... Oh. OH. Entrati is in Tau. Of course he would have another facility there!

[flint wyvern]

so apperantly the sentients are holding hands and singing Kumbaya day and night untill the evil bad baddies from the solar system came to ruin everything 😂

[nimble monolith]

There ARE two Hearts! Possibly, at least.

[dawn shoal]

I mean he might be at Tau, and if it's too far away for the Heart to give us our Void powers, then we'd need one over there
Though we'd need to have had one during the Old War/Old Peace too

And it would have needed to be originally built by the Sentients, perhaps, since they would have needed its power to open their side of the Rail

[restive river]

There’s only one heart of Deimos that is known of

[iron tiger]

Wormholes do exist in railjack missions

[iron tiger]

One in the drifters dimension?

[dawn shoal]

I'm still pretty sure they're Void representations of planets, and the lines connecting them are from the Solar Rail, since they match the lines connecting the two stars we've seen already since this weekend

[restive river]

Not accessible
Not relevant

[nimble monolith]

Yeah, but if one void disturbance in the Lua void mirror is around mars, and there are two disturbances...

[restive river]

We don’t know where that is

[iron tiger]

The albrecht membrane crack in Duviri clearly shows the other side

[restive river]

No it doesn’t?

Drifter’s version of reality isn’t accessible

It’s never even been brought up

We don’t even know if it exists

There is only one heart that is known about
If there was multiple then why would the first one cause so many issues when it went down?

We don’t even know how the protoframes in 1999 are void powered just that they are

[nimble monolith]

Because the one in Tau is too far away for us

[dawn shoal]

The Drifter has accessed our universe through Duviri, and we've never done the other way around; if it were possible it would have to be done via Duviri and we probably wouldn't see an effect through the part of the Void the mirrors see into

[restive river]

How would there be one in Tau

[iron tiger]

You can clearly see stars

[restive river]

That’s the Zariman

[restive river]

Those are the origin system’s stars :|

We can see Duviri aboard the Zariman.

[dawn shoal]

The idea behind there maybe being two hearts is that the second one would be needed for Tau since it's too far away for the one here to affect or vice-versa, but I actually agree with you that there's only one heart and that we couldn't see/access any others from other dimensions.

[iron tiger]

That’s our Zariman

In the origin system

It’s on the other side of the albrecht membrane

[restive river]

That’s not drifter’s version of reality is the bottom line here
That version isn’t accessible.

[nimble monolith]

We talked about the void mirror showing connections in the void, one around Mars, the other possibly Tau, where Entrati seems to be, who would have a lab there

[dawn shoal]

Yes, and it's a paradox. The Drifter came from there just like we did, and is an alternate version, but only the Drifter exists (paradoxically) from the reality they originated in.

[nimble monolith]

We are just throwing pieces around

[iron tiger]

Yes it is where else would that be

The duviri Zariman and the one in the starchart are clearly different

[restive river]

Where are you getting that it’s around mars???
The void mirror shows some void construct, a void hole perhaps around Earth
Connected to a parallel one that we don’t know

[dawn shoal]

I actually think these are either Earth and Mars or Earth and Venus.

[iron tiger]

One has duviri landscapes and the other doesn’t

[restive river]

It’s not accessible
We’ve never seen it
That is the Operator’s system, not Drifter’s

[strange turtle]

There is that one KIM convo where the Drifter says that they and the Zariman are probably all that’s left

[dawn shoal]

If you follow the mirror around, there's actually two of those black orbs you can see through it
So we're trying to think of what they could be.

[restive river]

Which just adds more to my point that it’s not accessible

[dawn shoal]

If you face with your back to the Earth-overlooking window you can see the second through the Void mirror when it passes on the left.

[strange turtle]

Yeah, just adding on to what you were saying

[restive river]

Yeah I know, I said that
That’s the parallel one we don’t know about

There’s some void construct mirroring Earth connected to a parallel one that is of an unknown body, if a body at all

Could it be Mars?
Why would it be?
It could be Deimos if anything

[dawn shoal]

Ah okay I missed that, sorry.
I'm theorizing that one represents Earth in the void, and the other represents a nearby planet that we can see this side of Earth, like Mars or maybe Venus, and the Void tendrils between the two show the solar rail connecting its entry/exit points through the Void.
Because I think that the similar energy tendrils between the two suns in the Old Peace demo are the connection between Sol and Tau through the Extrasolar Rail.

Since Mars has moons and Venus doesn't and I'd think Deimos and Phobos would appear in the mirror too, it's probably Venus if my theory is in any way correct.