lore-discussion

[lean garden]

the rift?

[tribal fossil]

like, it's the big rift, the quintessential rift... the big kahuna

[lean garden]

well, its the one behind the heart lol

[pine orchid]

you're talking about this line right?

[tribal fossil]

If we know that the Wall of Lohk and the Heart are Entrati contraptions (because of the Requiem Notes he left), then I guess I'm confused on the whole Hex timeline and Albrecht's initial concern of "which one came back" from the Void
Without the information from 1999 it makes sense, because insert spiderman meme here
But with 1999, how far behind Albrecht is Wally, and how far behind Wally are we?
When we get to 1999, the first thing that happens is Albrecht getting caught by Rusalka-Murmur
But we find Wally when we catch up, and Albrecht has somehow managed to leave more Win95 messages for us saying the nuke has to go off, which directly contradicts his earlier statement about the Indifference being weak to love
And then "Arthur" decides to bail for Tau in the end?

Idk, I finished the Hex standing today and now my brain just hurts more

[modern steppe]

He doesn’t say that the Nuke was needed to kill the Indifference

He only said it has a rare energy but nothing in relation to the Indifference

Nor did he expect it to anyways

[tribal fossil]

He said the loop had been tampered with, and the bomb was needed to escape

[pine orchid]

yknow I have a whole theory on the properties of void and how it's possible for them to time travel

[tribal fossil]

So he needs it to go off, knowing it'll annihilate everything left behind

[modern steppe]

Leaves more Win95 messages for us saying the nuke has to go off, which directly contradicts his earlier statement about the Indifference being weak to love

[pine orchid]

but it was like 4300+ characters and I cant send discord messages that long lmao

[modern steppe]

He already made 99 a loop, and he’s been in there for who knows how long

[tribal fossil]

you can always split it somewhere and post it as halves or thirds

[modern steppe]

The reason why he wasn’t able to take advantage of it is because everything was pitted against him without our help

The Hex wanted him, the Scaldra wanted him

[pine orchid]

I did end up posting it as a forum post, in case you wanna have a look Xd
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1462874-thoughts-about-the-void-time-travel-and-theoretical-physics/

[modern steppe]

Both want to take Albrecht for themselves. Without Drifter, Albrecht would’ve been taken by the Hex and probably be at their whims

[dire mountain]

Not for long at least

[tribal fossil]

or..murdered, given their attitudes lol

[modern steppe]

In which the loop would go off again, meaning that he’s put back to square one

He wanted us to essentially soothe the Hex’s murderous attitude to let him escape, knowing that the loop will occur and reset it back

[pine orchid]

hmm tbf I don't exactly know what Albrecht's goal in coming to 1999 is
he says it's to lure the void away from loid, but that didn't work

[tribal fossil]

But then why shoot us and reset the loop? Doesn't that just give Wally more chances as well?

[modern steppe]

To perform experiments

[dire mountain]

Not really soothe their murderous attitude the whole point was him goading the drifter into forming a bond with the hex

[modern steppe]

There’s logs from killing the book boss in Whispers which details his plans and actions in 99 prior the actual quest

[pine orchid]

I personally took it to mean in response to us saying "No, I think I can pull it off without having to sacrifice the Hex"
and he's saying "you cant do that unless you know them well enough" and by shooting us he gives us more time

[modern steppe]

The reason why he went there besides luring it away from Loid was to perforom experiments

That’s why the Hex exist, why he offered the “miracle cure” to Lettie for the techrot

It’s also why the Scaldra are pinning him as the cause of all the problems because he was suspicious and conducting experiments

[modern steppe]

Well in fairness, a reactor was about to explode. There’s no room to go over and convince one or the other

And this was practically Albrecht’s only chance of escape

[pine orchid]

that could be, but it doesnt seem like he intended to kill drifter
and afterwards we get mail saying the loop now encompasses the whole year instead of just the 24hour loop it initially was, and that albrecht was the one who gave us that

[modern steppe]

I didn’t say he did that to kill the Drifter, but I will clarify. He shot us to basically seal the deal to what Drifter said, likely to prevent a scuffle between Drifter and Albrecht and potentially risking both of their lives

It was an on the spot decision to put us in our place knowing that the loop will occur

[pine orchid]

I had another theory that the void exploits feelings of emptiness, apathy, abandonment whether to fuel itself or as a place to worm into
and it's something like, when your heart is full of love there's no space for the void to wiggle into, I think it's something we see from the whisper in the walls quest that the murmur crept into sanctum anatomica as loid was at his emotional low from feeling abandoned and was pushed out of sanctum anatomica when we recreated the scene between himself and albrecht reminding him of their love and filling his heart with love

[modern steppe]

Remember, he originally wanted Drifter to come with him

[pine orchid]

ah! ok that makes sense, yeah

and yknow, fair enough the drifter would throw hands with albrecht right then and there, I dont doubt it Xd

[modern steppe]

Exactly, especially after a seemingly quick decision that discounts the apparent despair he had seen with the Hex within the quest

Despite not being a “”Tenno”” in the traditional sense, Drifter still shares the same characteristic as any other Tenno, being empathy

[tribal fossil]

Which is justified since he is the one who experimented on them in the first place

[modern steppe]

Even if both knew that 1999 is in a loop, Drifter would likely still act upon their empathy, because what Albrecht is essentially doing is leaving the city to its fate

[pine orchid]

side note
in sanctum anatomica, when you stand next to the large vessel that represents loid you can hear its heartbeat
but you don't hear a heartbeat even when standing on the chest of the vessel representing albrecht
clearly that meant he was a heartless b-- /j XD

[modern steppe]

Which I think makes sense now when Albrecht said that line about Drifter being more childish than their younger self

But thats just me

[pine orchid]

Im forgetting, was Albrecht the one who set up the reactor to explode in the first place?
by leaving the city to its fate, as in that the city was doomed to the techrot anyway so it was either techrot or reactor?

[tribal fossil]

I guess at this point my question is, why not destroy the Heart?
The rail to Tau is broken anyway, the Sentients did that on Tau's end
And while our Frames would stop operating, yes (dead game!) it would stop the Void flow and block Wally from doing...literally anything
We can already fight Grineer and Corpus as Tenno now, so what else is that important?

[modern steppe]

Idt it was ever mentioned no

We just know he needed it but needed our help to get to it

That’s as far as it goes

[pine orchid]

I remembered Amir mentioned he gave the codes to someone, I think as one of his KIM messages but I'm not at my compi atm lmao

[modern steppe]

There’s also the fact that apparently after 1999 there would ne at least 18 radiation wars so…

I mean either way, the fate of 1999 is basically just a full on nuclear wastland

Albrecht just needed the reactor to go off to escape

[tribal fossil]

So Albrecht leaves and we remain with the Hex again...
Which is why I'm of the mind that the path to Tau will be baby steps and not "here, have fun in a new system"
We need a resolution to this nightmare!

[pine orchid]

this I cant say for certain, we don't rlly have a full picture yet atm
my guess is to do with the original reason the Orokin wanted interstellar space travel to begin with
they messed up the solar system too badly and wanted to leave for a fresh start
Albrecht did say "Tau is in sight" so it could be he still wants to go there himself, and kinda cant do it without void technology

[tribal fossil]

Time travel is so confusing... lmao
This just reinforces my belief that time travel is a bad idea for us irl

[pine orchid]

honestly yeah

but also, there's more lore once you reach the best friends good ending with kaya and flare might make you even more confused :p

[lean garden]

serveral issues:

1. Not just warframes run on the heart, transport is the lifeblood of any civilisation, taking down the heart shuts down the most common transport system, the solar rails
2. There are already void storms here and there, and one big stinking tear into the void at the zariman, shutting down the heart would leave our warframes powerless, but it likely wont stop wally

[dense herald]

who summoned me?

[tribal fossil]

Wally did

Okay so the Wiki doesn't have any information on the new additions to Hollvania...
Am I correct in assuming that Minerva is a Saryn protoframe and Flare is representing Temple? Cuz those are the vibes I'm getting
And I can't figure out Kaya or Velmir

[graceful swan]

Kaya is Nova
Velmir is Frost

[tribal fossil]

Oh, it was buried...found it

I...would not have guesed either of those two tbh

[graceful swan]

Kaya forces you to call her Nova
Velmir always makes Frosty jokes

[tribal fossil]

Got it
And we only get to use the KIM to get to know them, correct?

[graceful swan]

Yeah

[tribal fossil]

Bummer

[minor egret]

and his kim name is papapolar

[tribal fossil]

Ya know... lol
I didn't even make that connection when I saw it yesterday

[worldly knot]

Only thing that comes to mind is a quest cutscene where the Lotus summons a bunch of Tenno to voidblast Erra.

[graceful swan]

You're missing
Rell
Zariman class

[silk atlas]

The time multiple of them just kinda blast Erra

[worldly knot]

Zariman class at that point aren't Tenno, and Rell's technically not Tenno when we meet him as he's cast out by then, right?

Assumedly there are other Tenno about since Stalker's intro is about how he hunts Tenno and stuff. I'm on about other living Tenno on screen.

Also the dead Rhino Prime in New War

[worldly knot]

I can't remember the exact moment I think it's the story bits before New War

[graceful swan]

They aren't Temno but they're still the class that became Tenno

[worldly knot]

I'm just being pedantic insofar as another live Tenno that we see. I am not disputing that there are surely other Tenno running around.

[sudden cave]

do we have a canon explanation for why, say, you can kill vor during vor's prize and then again on ceres, or how sargas ruk was around to be an ass during scarlet spear when his assassination is on saturn? or is that just gameplay/story segregation?

[lean garden]

no canon explanation

quite ludonarrative

sometimes its just "somehow palpatine has returned" for the early bosses

[sudden cave]

i mean, i'm good with "if it's not in a quest/cutscene it didn't really happen" but a "he's just sleeping" handwave would be nice

[glacial bough]

For most of them, it's just that they didn't die

Vor is the actual break since his canon death is during the quest

[lean garden]

somehow he survives, gets killed in a tag team, and then becomes the copypasta spewing vor we all know and love

[sudden cave]

or, hell, some kind of emergency teleport effect when the corpse dissolves to imply a retreat. actually that wouldn't be too hard to do, would it

[lean garden]

unironically DE can do it

they did it for the Wolf of Saturn Six

[sudden cave]

well there you go. maybe they'll do that if and when they eventually go back over the early planets to replace the generic/placeholder bosses (sergeant, kril kind of, ruk kind of, etc)

that was all i needed to know, thanks

[strange turtle]

He does. A kim conversation with Lettie goes over how at some point we’ll follow him there since Wally will follow him too, and we need to keep working against him

Tau. If that's where Entrati is headed, my Xipe Totec will follow him. And it's too important to let them have it.

[woven coyote]

So you mean tenno as in a class of people recognized by the orokin? Because if you just mean with powers then yeah we meet a ton in the zariman the rescue wasnt immediate there was the whole worse parent/child hunger games after all

Not to mention while margulis treated us before we were put to sleep

[sudden cave]

i think they mean "on-screen during a cutscene or gameplay" rather than just by implication/offscreen info

[woven coyote]

And in the rell comic rell and the other pictured kids for sure already have powers

[woven coyote]

They said lore, not on screen tho

[pine orchid]

ah I dont remember this, or maybe I didnt actually get that one from her
but yeah, could be another reason he wants deimos heart functioning

[glacial bough]

Breaking the Heart doesn't stop Wally

Not at this point

[sudden cave]

also it runs the solar rails and a bunch of other stuff. space is really big and warframe doesn't have ftl outside of the void wormhole thing (i think)

[lean garden]

might have some form of FTL, as shown in scenes where ships just zip out of sight

i.e murexes and landing craft

[pine orchid]

what does FTL stand for?

[lean garden]

like especially for the sentients they should have some form of FTL or sub-light otherwise their stunts around the system would have been funny

[sudden cave]

faster than light

[pine orchid]

Faster Than Light?

[lean garden]

faster than light

[pine orchid]

ah ok, thought it was smth else

[sudden cave]

faster than three different people typing the same thing at the same time :P

or as it's commonly know, FTTDPTTSTATST

[pine orchid]

I think the lorewall in the necralisk basement did mention that they had interplanetary travel, but none strong or fast enough to reach other systems until the big finger tech was invented
I don't know if murexes have something like a reliquary drive or something else that might make that possible

[sudden cave]

it doesn't necessarily have to be faster than light to be going too fast to see (look up operation plumbbob's missing manhole cover, ex). and in space there's no air resistance to slow you down.

[sudden cave]

they can't have, sentients are allergic to the void specifically so that they couldn't come back to haunt the orokin

[pine orchid]

Faster than human perception
FTHP Travel

[sudden cave]

except oops some of them were willing to take one for the team

[pine orchid]

the grandfather to FTL travel Xd

[strange plinth]

well, one in particular that we know of
praghasa

[sudden cave]

hunhow

lotus

erra presumably

[strange plinth]

void is deadly to sentients
the rest are only sterile, praghasa died to protect them

[sudden cave]

oh right

i thought it just made them sterile

[strange plinth]

-# sterile ! that's the word i was looking for

[sudden cave]

regardless, however they travel normally it's not to do with the void

my guess is they'd brought something with them meant to anchor the tau rail at the other end, or something, and cannibalized that to yeet themselves back to origin to make super sure the orokin couldn't come after them

except then they were late to the "kill orokin" party, rip us

[glacial bough]

The Sentient broke the rail on our end

[strange plinth]

yeah hunhow destroyed our side of the rail
no need to break the tau side

[sudden cave]

i just mean in terms of "why would you send void tech along with the robots that can't use void tech"

[pine orchid]

they can still be around void tech cant they? as long as they're not directly exposed to the void?

[glacial bough]

Yes, it's going inside the Void/exposed to void energy that kills them

[lean garden]

for the goobers that come after

[sudden cave]

yes, that's what i meant

...i wonder if transference would work on a sentient. if it works on the golden maw....

oh wait no we know that don't we, you transfer into the ropalolyst

i think

[lean garden]

no you ride it

[humble sierra]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but what's Ollie saying?

[placid cypress]

Wish I could be there rn

[thin tulip]

I have a theory I've been considering

The new song in the trailers? I think it's the sentients singing it

The sounds of it, the lyrics, its so melancholic. While I'm not positive I really hope it's the sentients singing it.

I want more sentient lore, at this point it's clear to me that they're just as much of a victim of the orokin as the tenno are, perhaps Tau will give us a chance for peace now that the tenno aren't bound by the golden lords commands

[proper barn]

Maybe.

We aren't sure.

[restive river]

Tennocon relay that’s a murex
Special sentient armor for watching the stream
The titles of the videos being quotes from Natah and Hunhow
Yeah I think it might be sentient related

[hidden basin]

Do we have any clue about where do warframe abilities come from? Do they come from the infested transformation that they suffer or do they come from the operator?

[graceful swan]

Warframes had abilities before us they were designed without Tenno in mind

[hidden basin]

Ok, that's everything I needed to hear, thank you! 😀

[restive river]

They come from the frames
The frames are powered by the heart of deimos
The tenno pilot the frames and in no way power them

[hidden basin]

that... somehow sounded very poetic lol

[restive river]

[sage moat]

yall think there's any significance to the grineer galleons on the please standby screen

[tall echo]

No

Red planet, grineer galleons, that's just mars

[sage moat]

or earth with a filter over it given the clouds

consider these straws grasped

[normal mountain]

Maybe a Kuva Lich has set up on Earth again

[tall echo]

Bopp bipp

[tall echo]

I don't see it

[humble sierra]

They're on the Tennocon merch pack too

So is Deimos and other planets

Just the Origin Systen aesthetic that the merch/marketing is themed on, I think

[wary anchor]

Lore... Explain yourself

Why does it say Tenno while I'm playing as Stalker in Jade Shadows

Or does that specify target?

[tall echo]

Location faction

Friendly=tenno

[wary anchor]

Stalker is fren

[humble sierra]

Zariman being the Cosplay trophy? Yeah nah it's gonna be relevant for Tau, surely

[glacial bough]

That...not a connection I would put stock into

[humble sierra]

Ofc, just joking around

[unique talon]

I record that Arthur asks the drifter about who's the scariest warframe in the game

For lore or even gameplay aspects, who would be?

And why

[glacial bough]

Depends on what you're afraid of

Nekros and Hydriod are up there

Both of their express purpose is to strike fear

Nyx and Garuda are pretty terrifying to think about as well

[unique talon]

https://tenor.com/view/ghostfreak-gif-18431543032641143345

[unique talon]

Garuda is kinda a blood vampire but nyx?

[unique talon]

How would a literal pirate be scary enough?

[glacial bough]

The psychological horror. Either you completely losing control of yourself or never knowing when an ally might turn on you

[unique talon]

Like nidus and the infestation?

[glacial bough]

Or suddenly being completely alone, surrounded by enemies

Nidus is up there too

[unique talon]

But is there any frame that would give an interesting horror movie or show?

I've seen nidus as an option by some players

[glacial bough]

Most. All the ones I mentioned definitely

Harrow can be up there

[unique talon]

RAP..TAP..TAP?

[glacial bough]

Volt and Gauss in being too fast to be seen

Ivara is just a better Predator

Loki in actually never being seen

[minor egret]

oraxia if you have arachnophobia

[umbral merlin]

Okay how did ballas fall for the veil HE CREATED?

[minor egret]

for some reason he didn't make him self immune from it

[dawn shoal]

i'm stealing this

[dawn shoal]

he had zero self awareness/introspective skill. he was emotionally intelligent as a seven year old. this is absolutely me insulting him too. XD

[wild wharf]

Anyone who knows abt Kaya story?

[proper barn]

What do you mean?

People know a lot about Kaya.

She's a favorite character.

[wild wharf]

The protoframe of nova

[proper barn]

No I know who you mean

[umbral merlin]

So you're telling me a guy who took over everything died to a veil HE MADE 😭

[wild wharf]

ª

[proper barn]

I mean refine your question.

[spice jewel]

||She got bullied at school didn’t she?||

[proper barn]

Kinda

But I agree with Lettie

[wild wharf]

Why is she like, so upset with the picture she shared, keeps getting brought up each time I talk with her

[spice jewel]

And as a result she’s hostile at first glance

[proper barn]

oh it's cuz it's a person picture.

she was taken advantage of.

okay Think about for 2 seconds what type of picture would make you so upset.

[umbral merlin]

WHICH made him think The Lotus was Margulis. Which made him kiss her in which his soul was drained 😭

[glacial bough]

Because it's mind control. Why would he be immune

[proper barn]

like a personal picture your at the time partner shares that you didn't want them to share. @wild wharf

[wild wharf]

Well, when you say taken advantage of then its a picture itd rather not say

[proper barn]

it's only of her.

[wild wharf]

My thoughts.

[proper barn]

it's a picture of her.

Also she even says there was a rumor going around after that the she was with a teacher or something after that picture was shared.

[umbral merlin]

Think about this, the drifter managed to go through a whole facility with the veil and didnt become controlled.

[wild wharf]

Dang

[proper barn]

yes. Lettie also says she wants to destory this teenager that did this.

which i agree.

[spice jewel]

She also hates the infested guitar

[proper barn]

I mean she just doesn't like infested

[glacial bough]

And Drifter is trauma filled veteran of that kind of stuff. Ballas is a narcissistic sociopath

[wild wharf]

She hates quite a few things, with a reason

[simple raft]

She took a very naughty picture and she sent it to her Internet boyfriend who then put it on the Internet if she didn't take the naughty picture it would have not been on the Internet to begin with

[proper barn]

cuz of what she has gone through and the fact she was the one that said they should take the the stuff that made them the protos @spice jewel

[proper barn]

you are dumb.

[umbral merlin]

Which is why he fell to the veil he made.

[proper barn]

what vile creature must you be to think that someone being a vitcim is like their fault?

[strange plinth]

victim blaming in the lore chat again?

[proper barn]

THAT'S WHAT I AM SAYING DAWG

it's literally like "why did you get drunk?" or "why where you wearing that?" like i'm very upset.

[wild wharf]

Well, its her partner, seems kinda normal to sent those types of "pictures" to them while expecting them to keep them in private

Itd be mad asf if I sent that type of picture to my partner and later find out that he/she sent them to a friend of made them public

[strange plinth]

the veil was also describing things to the drifter that they weren't aware of, tbf
margulis n such
but as far as ballas was concerned, that was happening

[glacial bough]

While it's not smart to have those kind of photos around, Kaya did nothing wrong

[proper barn]

I am not gonna even for a second give this line of thought any value or even act like anyone that says it is a inhuman creature if you are gonna for a second blame kaya.

[umbral merlin]

Sending those pics has been a thing many online relationships have. She expected her bf to keep them a secret. Instead the bf posted them online (which is HIGHLY ILLEGAL btw as she didnt consent). Also please dont post this stuff on a WARFRAME DISCORD SERVER IN THE LORE CHANNEL.

[simple raft]

I'm not victim blaming i do feel bad for what happened to her

[proper barn]

"well Margulis should have done what ballas asked and she wouldn't have been killed."

[proper barn]

you literally did.

what do you mean

[strange plinth]

if she didn't take the naughty picture it would have not been on the Internet to begin with
dunno about that one

[umbral merlin]

You legit said that if she didnt take the pic it wouldnt have been posted. No.. If the BOYFRIEND hadnt been a creep her pics wouldnt be online. It is the BFs fault.

She didnt know that he would do that to her.

This aint final destination logic. We dont have premonitions of what will happen and then it happening.

[simple raft]

I know that and I do feel bad for her I'm sorry

[umbral merlin]

this is the lore discussion channel. Not a place to argue..

I was discussing why ballas fell for the veil he made himself.

[proper barn]

if you didn't mean it's okay.

I forgive you just don't do it agian.

[umbral merlin]

But its fine.. I'll forgive you once for this. Dont do it again..

[proper barn]

@simple raft we all do a wrong or say something incorrect it's alright. I assume you didn't mean it that way. i forgive you alright. back to normal lore.

[simple raft]

Ok

[umbral merlin]

I wish I couldve said that to a lot of my friend groups but most I joined treated me like garbage when I said one wrong thing 😭

[proper barn]

ohhh sorry buddy i know that feeling.

[umbral merlin]

I forgot what mission this was but you have to defeat a warfame with a throwing disc. I forgot the name 😭

[modern steppe]

Deadlock Protocol

The fight with Protea

[umbral merlin]

I couldnt do that mission

[modern steppe]

I have no idea how I did it tbh

[umbral merlin]

But tbh my reaction time was poor at the time

[modern steppe]

I still don’t

[umbral merlin]

I did do Octavias Anthem

[modern steppe]

I mean I know how to defeat her, I just distinctly remember getting confused in winning it

[umbral merlin]

That took one hour to get all the notes right tho 😭

And defeat the boss

[spice jewel]

That’s pretty shocking to me

[umbral merlin]

That was on Xbox tho

now I'm on PS5 and DIDNT do a cross save

[spice jewel]

So you had to start over?

[umbral merlin]

but I did more progress on PS5 then Xbox so no point in switching

Cuz Xbox I didnt even complete the war within. PS5 I did every main quest

[proper barn]

oh no buddy

lmao

[umbral merlin]

13 hours until TennoCon 2025 Day 2 rewards window starts for the armor set

[wild wharf]

Soooo, going back to lore, the infestation is pretty much connected to anything related to it? Including past/present/future??

Or how does it work

[proper barn]

At least the helminth is.

[wild wharf]

Is there any relationship between lizzie and helmith?

"Besides the infestation"

And their appetite to things

[strange plinth]

lizzie is helminth

[proper barn]

Yea Lizzie is from the helmith. It's why she always wants to consume.

[wild wharf]

Any lore on how it became what it is on our ship?

[proper barn]

I mean Lizzie is made later in causaulity.

Like lizzie is just connected to the helmith cuz all warframes are made of helmith

And she's from a combination of tech rot and helmith.

[dawn shoal]

the drifter is a paradox, the mask thought they were the Operator and used things that may have worked to brainwash the Operator. The Drifter didn't have the same relationship with the Lotus or emotional connection to her that the Operator would have had, so its brainwashing attempts ended up useless.

[proper barn]

Well they kinda do. Lotus saved them.

They just wouldn't know her face

Or who she is.

[wild wharf]

Feel like warframe would need like a 10 hour movie explaining the entire lore, might last a little longer, I hope DE could someday make an animated series of it, maybe not the entire lore but things like the old war or new war kind of stuff

[proper barn]

But the Helminth its self is some infested the orokin "gardended" as it where to make the helminth and through some means it's loyal to our frames and then us the tenno.

[dawn shoal]

Yeah, and for Ballas gaslight-brainwashing to work, then the Drifter would have needed to have the same closeness that Operator had with her, if not the whole parent-child relationship. If the Drifter didn't know her than it's not the same, and the mask was trying to custom-tailor the brainwashing to its wearer, which was supposed to be the Operator.

[wild wharf]

Yea I think I remember seeing it on the sacrifice quest

[strange plinth]

random thought
what would a veil do to a warframe? would the veil's effects extend to the tenno behind it?

[proper barn]

Maybe.

But you could also just cut the link probably.

[umbral merlin]

Ok but the real lore is why everyone says Clem in TennoCon livestreams. Very loveable character :D

[spice jewel]

We came up with Clem

[dawn shoal]

hmm, it probably would depend on if it were one of our foundry-blueprint built copies or if it were someone like Umbra. with Umbra it would probably affect Umbra or maybe try to affect both, but if it's a copy then maybe it would only be the operator? Though it doesn't seem to recognize the difference between child/adult at the very least so maybe it's only a biological signature it reads

[proper barn]

Umbra is a foundry copy.

[umbral merlin]

Umbra would be affected I'm pretty sure. But assuming the operator sees what the warframe sees then the operator would be affected.

Since it gives the user a fake reality

[dawn shoal]

if he is, then the rest of our frames should be able to be independent like he is though. we put his pieces back together by scanning them and reconstructing them with the foundry but he still came from more than our others seem to, with one or two exceptions.

[umbral merlin]

but nah.. It isnt built for warframes, some frames the veil wouldnt even fit.

[dawn shoal]

there's also the fact the warframes are presumably connected to the Helminth, which depending on how the Helminth actually works, if it has a hive mind, then the hive mind might be able to make the warframe immune if it can give any sort of mental support to defend against the mask 🤔

[wild wharf]

Doritoframe lol

[strange plinth]

the scan gives him sentience but the first one did get obliterated, no way around it

[spice jewel]

No shaddup

[glacial bough]

No, because Umbra's sentience is built in. The others are not

[proper barn]

Okay He isn't because he purposely still has a memory in him as part of a punishment. He was never actually made to be piloted. He was made just to punish him and then be locked in the moon forever.

He only gets out of the moon after the second dream.

[glacial bough]

Every other warframe is just a scattered collection of instincts

[dawn shoal]

Jade seems to still have her memories before she dies, though.
And the Low Guardians like Stalker probably work differently than regular warframes but Stalker seems to still have a few pieces at the very least.

[spice jewel]

So you’re saying umbra was trapped in lua all along until we pulled it out?

[glacial bough]

That's because that was the original Jade

[proper barn]

That's what the game says.

So yes.

[glacial bough]

Original frames keep some level of memory and sentience

[strange plinth]

jade n stalker are their originals, tho
the first umbra was, but ours is not

[proper barn]

Umbra is not the original excal btw

[dawn shoal]

Is there a difference I've missed between the initial prototype of a warframe and the others that affects how the minds of the people that are helminthed works afterward?

[glacial bough]

or rather, direct human to frame keeps memories

[proper barn]

He's actually one of the last warframes made.

[dawn shoal]

I don't think that's confirmed

[glacial bough]

No, Umbra def is not

[dawn shoal]

but if he was made later then that would be true

so I suppose that would make sense

[proper barn]

Okay how is umbra one of the first frame if the thing Umbra found was talking about the first warframes and how they had to use the tenno to control them?

Cuz Ballas is mad cuz Umbra found out he was working with Hunhow telling him the warframes weakness

[strange plinth]

very much is
umbra was made late into the old war, as umbra dax uncovered ballas's betrayal
which couldn't happen earlier

[proper barn]

(That being the tenno)

It wouldn't make sense for Umbra to be a prototype if the tenno are already being used to pilot the warframes.

[modern steppe]

Ballas also talks to Umbra as if the Warframe were used by the Tenno already

[dawn shoal]

guys, i've already conceded my argument like six messages ago

[proper barn]

Oh I just talking my bad.

[dawn shoal]

that's fine

we all yap

[proper barn]

Also he gets blasted by natah in the opening cutscene.

Also he's at the ruins of his house when he dies.

[strange plinth]

oh?

[wild wharf]

Didn't ballas forced him to kill his own son?

[spice jewel]

What’s strange is ordis considers umbra to be older, when scanning the sword he said “this blade May predate everything in your Arsenal” although to my understanding he must’ve been referring to the weapons we use that are in the current timeline of the game so…

[spice jewel]

Yes, very sad. And that’s been his memory ever since

[proper barn]

Yes

[proper barn]

His blade probably does.

He's a Dax.

[dawn shoal]

if original warframes keep some form of memory and sentience, while most of the other warframes who get the same straing later lose it unless there's interference like Ballas did with Umbra, and then we print copies in our Foundry, would that mean there are technically 3 different ways Warframes can exist, at least technically?

[proper barn]

And he has it in his portrait.

[spice jewel]

Description says it was grafted from his flesh

[glacial bough]

It's not strange when the fragments we scan are original pieces. They are straight up physically older than anything we have

[spice jewel]

To the best of my knowledge nobody knows about umbra

[proper barn]

Oh I'm owned it's not in the picture. I guess they mean the blade itself has been around that long where as all the stuff in our foundry we made recently.

[spice jewel]

Man’s such a goated Dax they made a portrait of him

[dawn shoal]

Yeah I got the impression that at that stage of the game, most of the things we use were made at the very end of the New War or just around the time the Tenno slaughtered the Orokin, which would obviously be after the Sacfice flashback, right?

[wild wharf]

What happened with umbra at end?

[swift sentinel]

Umbra was some kind of heroo IIRC

[dawn shoal]

either that or they were things we build ourselves in the game

[wild wharf]

Did we put him down like we did with sevagoth?

[modern steppe]

Not mentioned, all we know is he find out about Ballas’ betrayal

[spice jewel]

He committed valor during the sentient battle at Hull

[proper barn]

He got "the lua cross" and was apparently a great general/soilder.

[swift sentinel]

We have his copy in our Arsenal.

[spice jewel]

Yeah, wish we had it as a cosmetic

[proper barn]

What do you mean?

[dawn shoal]

No, he's still around, if you listen during the one point in Jade Shadows he's referenced by Ordis as if he lives aboard the Orbiter with the Operator

[spice jewel]

Basically ballas called in an emergency meeting, even though he’s the impostor, calling out umbra for spying and won

[wild wharf]

So he still lives

[spice jewel]

Who’s there? Operator? Umbra? Helminth?

[dawn shoal]

I kinda want him as on-call crew for both Railjack and everything else, even just a specter that we can consistently use in Railjack too would be really cool

[wild wharf]

I hope we get to see him on future quests

Sort of like hunhow/stalker in the new war

[dawn shoal]

I think, for those who know the spoilers from finishing Round Table certain KIM chats, that we should be able to ||have a similar passive on Temple that we have on Umbra; even just an exilus augment in the reverse of how Warriors Rest works that adds Umbra's specter passive on transference, maybe leaving strength unaffected, and being hopeful maybe even adds Lizzie's Gemini skin lines in if you own that skin, would be so so cool since it's very possible for the Temple we own to work the same way that Umbra does, since we know now that they were always the only one.||

[strange plinth]

||temple umbra instead of temple prime||

[dawn shoal]

Yes, absolutely. If we go to Tau it would make a lot of sense for him to tag along, and though I don't know what his story could be continuing if he wasn't already involved in the New War he could have a cool role to play as a flat character at least.

[dawn shoal]

Yes!! Or both, I wouldn't complain to have two skins XD

[wild wharf]

Yea that'd be pretty cool

Can't wait 4 tennocon

[glacial bough]

Not really, Temple isn't lke Umbra, they're just another Jade situation

[dawn shoal]

tomorow's gonna be fun either way

[wild wharf]

What time tmr?

11-6 right?

[dawn shoal]

True, but we know Jade definitely died, while Temple as both an original frame and as far as we know didn't die yet could still end up being a situation at the intersection of the two, at least mechanically in the game.

*the original Jade died

[glacial bough]

Temple would have too since we're making them from a blueprint, not using that actual Flare

[dawn shoal]

There's no confirmed death, and since presumably you can still make a blueprint from a frame that isn't dead or destroyed it's impossible to tell imo. If I haven't seen them die onscreen then I'm always going to be a bit suspicious if bringing them back doesn't ruin something already present in the story.

[spice jewel]

Go operator mode (if equipped) but i see what you mean

[dawn shoal]

At the very least, if they are dead, then maybe if we get confirmation we'll finally get a flashback quest to the day the Tenno killed the orokin to confirm if they are dead or not

[dawn shoal]

see I know this, but if I have an on call Railjack crew I can have both him and another frame in the same place 😋

[glacial bough]

I mean, the death isn't really the point in the situation, it's using a blueprint

[spice jewel]

What would his stats be as a crew member? Or will he be just a defender even though he can be anything on that ship

[dawn shoal]

I mean I know that building them from a blueprint means that it's not the original, now that I've thought about it, but if they aren't dead then we can get something like Temple Umbra in the future if we meet the real one, etc

[spice jewel]

Speaking of which, i have this sort of lore thing in my head where the operator and umbra had an argument on who should be the railjack captain

[dawn shoal]

I'm thinking just like a standard specter tbh, though maybe it would just put whatever your A config is on him by default and just deploy him in the same state as if you've transferred out of him? It would be whatever worked best in the spaghetti code obviously lol

I am looking for ✨ vibes ✨ mostly

My current on call crew is a converted Coda Zeke named Lt. Pickle, who is mostly useless but has a funny name

[devout verge]

The biggest problem with "Temple Umbra" is that Umbra's independent actions are apparently a buggy mess that DE will never touch again.

They originally said they wanted to add more Umbra versions of existing Warframes to the game, but then never did.
They had also planned a system that allows all Warframes (even non-umbra) to act independently, and there's even a drop (the Somatic Fibers from Lua) related to that abandoned plan in the game.

All signs point to "they really liked the idea of more Umbras, but couldn't get it to work and abandoned the concept."

[pine orchid]

That's unfortunate
The Hex frames being in bounty missions are kind of similar though in a way, maybe they might be ready to try the idea again? even if it's just using the same ai as a rescue target or a defense operative

one can hope and all that 😔

[restive river]

I remember seeing them demo it on a devstream

[stiff fable]

the Hex frames are just NPCs/specters

the problem has always been the transition from "player controlled" to "NPC/specter" doesn't work

on a surface level it can't preserve the state Umbra is in when you go operator, so it erases all the buffs

[proper barn]

They aren't really. They used to be now They are fine.

Also you can "turn it off" now.

[stiff fable]

underneath that, there's apparently major spaghetti code issues that prevent this from being an easy fix

[proper barn]

But people don't really like it though.

It's not a mechanic people like they are even annoyed by it

So there's no reason to do it again.

[stiff fable]

Like, they'd have to rewrite a significant chunk of either the Operator transition code or the specter code and it's genuinely not worth it for a mechanic that most people don't care for

[modern steppe]

The only major fix they did “recently” is with Furious Javelin, the rest of his issues still linger

And Pablo has said that it’s practically impossible to truly fix it, and seeing as they added the augment to turn it off, it’s pretty clear they gave up on the idea as a whole

[stiff fable]

yup

[sage moat]

which really sucks btw!!!

[modern steppe]

Tbf it was a fairly unpopular idea in the first place, though whether or not that came from the idea itself or the implementation isn’t really known

Though I think both eventually conflated into what it is right now

[pine orchid]

that is unfortunate, because I would've liked to see more warframes moving independently of our control in gameplay to supplement the lore
like the Hex in 1999 is shown to be perfectly capable to acting on their own, but when it comes to using them as warframes they don't behave the way we might expect them to
(though for all we know it's because Drifter told them really firmly that if they wander off and get themselves in trouble somehow they might be stuck in the future forever and that's enough to get most of them except Umbra-Arthur to behave lmao, who knows!)

[worldly pollen]

this seems like the perfect channel to ask this, what is the communities obsession with clem?

to me hes just a defromed grenir

[pine orchid]

he is our precious babyboy with 3 whole grakatas Xd

mostly because a lot of us find his little quirks endearing

[modern steppe]

More specifically he was a fan creation by one of DE’s employees

[worldly pollen]

did somthing happen to that employee?

[modern steppe]

Which was basically a hypothetical Grineer who only said Clem, named Clem, and had an obsession with Grakatas

[modern steppe]

Unfortunately, said person passed away long ago

[worldly pollen]

ah

[pine orchid]

but I think he stands out on his own too

[modern steppe]

Clem is basically their legacy within the community alongside other contributions, though I’m unaware of those if I’m remembering right

[proper barn]

A community meme basically.

[pine orchid]

I didn't know about the late employee and that they made Clem, I just met Clem and fell in love with Clem's character the same way I fell in love with Rell's character

[proper barn]

That got turned into a character

[modern steppe]

btw you can still find the original comics via tumblr, it should be linked in Clem’s wiki page

Datareaper was their username iirc

[worldly pollen]

i might take a look at that

[pine orchid]

I love that DE does preserve their memory and legacy in the game

[proper barn]

Many community members actually end up working with DE.

Like take Liger. They where literally just a artist that did some Warframe stuff sometimes and some concepts.

And then now they work as a like main concept artist.

[modern steppe]

Clem Clem

[proper barn]

Making like Sevogoth

[modern steppe]

I will always love Liger for being the concept artist for Sevagoth

[pine orchid]

oooh! I didn't know that! that's so cool :3

[pine orchid]

my caked up son, I love his silly lil hat

[modern steppe]

They were also the main concept artist for Sev’s deluxe skin

Oh and also the Kullervo Apostate Skin as well

genuinely one of the goated concept artists for Warframe

[proper barn]

They

[modern steppe]

Ah

[proper barn]

Smile.

[pine orchid]

that's really cool, and sounds like a success story to be able to contribute to building a project you love~

in this case game

and community

[proper barn]

Many such cases.

[sage moat]

two things

first, what was going on in the koumei update

is it just magic. does fate canonically exist in warframe, controlled by a warframe?

[glacial bough]

The Oni dream? It's a premonition, yes

[pine orchid]

if it seems magical, is it usually just void shenanigans?

[sage moat]

no sometimes it is just magic

[glacial bough]

And yes, it might as well be magic. Warframe is science fantasy for a reason

[pine orchid]

and fate, idk it sounds like it might be tied to KHRA and OULL? like how Protea has time powers

[glacial bough]

Koumei is really just manipulating probability

[pine orchid]

that makes sense to me, we have a warframe manipulating time (KHRA), so why not one manipulating probability (OULL) too Xp

[proper barn]

I mean the unum controls outcomes.

[glacial bough]

Well, she can see them to be exact

[pine orchid]

I suppose you could say she controls the outcome by manipulating the various variables in order to reach the desired outcome?

[proper barn]

I mean the Unum sees possible outcomes and through her agents (quills) and also just her speaking directly onto people's minds she makes a outcomes happen that she wants.

See Unko

Like The unum showed him like "hey If you leave and become a quill Saya will go have a great life and a family and their houses will go strong together." And He was like "alright."

[pine orchid]

yeeaaah I remember those quests

[glacial bough]

It's mostly semantics. She can't just make things happen, she's just lucky to have a bunch of people that believe her

[pine orchid]

so maybe Komei does smth similar like the Unum in a way, seeing possibilities and manipulating it to her favour

[proper barn]

Hmmmmmm she can speak into people's minds she has "time powers?" And can seemingly show anyone possible outcomes.

[proper barn]

Yes she does. Also komei is seen as like poor man's unum. For very small things that the unum doesn't concern herself with.

[modern steppe]

Tbh I always interpreted their theme of fate to be similar to how JJBA treats fat, basically meaning you can’t exactly escape fate or change it, and if you do you suffer for it.

Though in fairness it’s a little crackhead

[sage moat]

jjba reference i am normal about jjba

[modern steppe]

Most of that is primarily Onkko’s experience with the Unum and his eventual turn to becoming a Quill, saying how every other possible outcome leads to disaster except the one where he leaves Saya. So he accepts and follows that fate rather than go against it

We don’t really see what happens if anyone tries to go against it, probably unlikely. JJBA works on very different terms when it comes to how people approach fate compared to this subtopic in Warframe

Literally the main villain of Part 5’s power is to essentially erase himself from experiencing his expected fate, which is why he’s a genuine menace but also is the reason for his downfall

[woven coyote]

Considering koumei's abilities
I maintain that koumei has no power over fate and just happened to be spotted while the unum was doing stuff

[modern steppe]

Imo Koumei seems to be a sort of fate interpreter rather than actually manipulating fate

[stiff fable]

given the fate pearls are connected to her, ultimately unlikely

[woven coyote]

I could accept fate's cleanup crew

[modern steppe]

Or it’s likely that she holds a small influence in fate

[stiff fable]

The fate dreams work the way drawing fortunes in Japanese Buddhist shrines works

You pull a stick to see what you get

And if you get bad luck, you wrap it up in the shrine to discard that fate

[woven coyote]

Yeah that's just dealing with what fate gives you not really having any control over it... which is what her abilities do

[modern steppe]

Hmm yeah

[woven coyote]

You just deal with whatever comes out

[stiff fable]

but you can see what you'd get ahead of time

And you don't have to deal with it if you don't want to

she's a Japanese fortune teller, complete with discard and draw

[woven coyote]

I mean we don't see what we get ahead of time
We basically can accept or ignore fate's quest(usually with the same level of resignation as accepting fetch quests)

And the reward may or may not be usefull

So yeah koumei is fate's cleanup crew

[stiff fable]

but that IS seeing what you get

it actually works better than the Unum's version

The Unum is experiencing those futures, and is sending agents back to direct events to the better outcomes

[pine orchid]

sorry for the segue tho but I just remembered smth from the concert, it is probably nothing important but I just thought it was interesting
they play a segment of Tethra Jahrak for Neci here, but only the operatic voice, and she enters alone
the elderchant only begins at the beginning of the second "Tehtra Jahrak", and given that sometimes people from the backstage take a little bit to appear onstage after being cued, maaaaaybe you could say the elderchant was meant to be a cue for Albrecht (or is he... Wallbrecht?) to enter Xd

so clearly, Tethra Jahrak is meant to be sung by Wally('s Murmur) and Neci! Xd /j
-# but seriously though I want the official lyrics and translation so bad there's so many new words in there

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxwhiWSWOU5jAVdj1JqPK0PnO6203sslsr?si=e55w5EGgzF3Q6fK-

[sage moat]

my second thing was: any last minute predictions since The Big Day is in only a few hours?

14 mere hours

[modern steppe]

My joke answer would be that they would be ending Warframes development

Or pausing development for Tau till 2035

[pine orchid]

We're going to Tau but their solar system's orbit speed is so different to ours that we'd be seeing either a Tau from Orokin Era or a Tau so distant in the future that our present origin is like ancient earth to them (ala Interstellar but more extreme lmao)
(this is a crack theory, just to be clear)

[modern steppe]

In terms of lore, maybe something other than a Narmer/Tau update

Something to connect it

[proper barn]

https://tenor.com/view/xenosaga-kos-mos-contraption-meme-gif-13913700112302630969

[modern steppe]

I do not wish to know what The Contraption does

[barren jasper]

I have a 49 different squares for a bingo generator if that counts

[pine orchid]

could we have a link to it maybe? I'd love to play bingo with my friends for tennocon XD

[barren jasper]

yeah sure ill dm it to you

[pine orchid]

thankies!

[sage moat]

Here's the current state of my hopeful 2025 bingo I made last December

[barren jasper]

"hunhow does something" is so funny

come on.. do something, meme

[sage moat]

Looking at it now it's highly unrealistic but I'm still hoping for em

[woven coyote]

50 years later oberon rework remains unmarked

[pine orchid]

Techrot Nidus skin would be such a banger

[sage moat]

At least buff his health and armor or something

[sage moat]

He has screens that turn on with mutation stacks

[pine orchid]

I also need to know how stalker dad is doing, apparently he has enough time and patience to attend a concert full of Tenno with Sirius/Orion Xd

[woven coyote]

Lol

[sage moat]

i don't think A Bingo is too unrealistic tonight

not the full board but getting 1 bingo wouldn't be too bad

[proper barn]

Does Charger need a buff?

[sage moat]

top row could all be announced at tennocon, realistically. oberon rework and 2 new syndicates could work. community designed frame + stalker is a bingo

[proper barn]

When was the like pet claw rework?

[sage moat]

idk i thought it did in december

playing it with nidus it does alright with the strain set but it doesn't do much

i think one of the other kubrows would be more in need of a buff.

center column could happen too

[proper barn]

Oh I need to use the lions from diemos

They are pretty good now.

[pine orchid]

the predasites??

[proper barn]

Yes?

[pine orchid]

heck u rite I havent gone and done those yet 😭

[sage moat]

they're alright

i dont think there are bad companions anymore. at least i haven't found one. they all at least Do Something

[pine orchid]

I stopped because I ran out of companion slots......... but I have more now

[sage moat]

helminth charger with the strain set is a neat all rounder. extra health, extra crit, and some other pocket change bonuses

[fierce locust]

where can i find more lore about chroma? i checked the codex but didn't see anything under his entry, and all lore i read on internet i don't know how much is actually cannon

[graceful swan]

There isn't really any

[fierce locust]

damn... his quest alone doesn't really say much

[brittle siren]

The only thing we know that Lotus said he is one of the strongest frame and he is hinting to be controlling by a Sentient (probably Hunhow) in that quest

[proper barn]

WELL

oh sorry caps well we also know his pelt is that of a powerful sentient.

[pine orchid]

me rn

[unique talon]

Canonically speaking, is there any frame that all the enemies are afraid of?

[unique talon]

Not ironically I've learned about acids and radiation through warframe

[pine orchid]

I'm trying to prove or disprove this thesis I currently have in my head and to do it I need a better understanding of radiation and entropy 😭

[hollow siren]

well considering there's things like Stalker, the Infestation and the Murmur, probably not

Nekros was designed around the very concept of Fear itself, so he'd maybe be the closest

Sevagoth and Garuda are contenders too

[proven ridge]

are you a PhD student ?

[pine orchid]

lmao no 😭
but I was majoring in science in high school and then engineering in uni and actually I think I mean to to say hypothesis rather than just thesis

I was thinking of thesis statement

[proven ridge]

there's a bit of thermodynamics in scientific engineering courses tho

but they don't focus on radiations a lot

from my experience

[pine orchid]

a little yes, but I was in computer engineering and we dealt more with electricity

[proven ridge]

oh ye that

[pine orchid]

since we were a subdivision(?) of electrical engineering so, not a lot to do with thermodynamics and radiation necessarily

[proven ridge]

okay

if thermodynamics interest you, and even radiation physics, you might need to learn statistical physics, which offers a deepened understanding of how thermodynamic systems work. I think you'll handle the maths in it since you're a computer engineering student

[pine orchid]

maybe, but the more theoretical the maths becomes the harder it becomes for me to conceptualize and understand it as well (I like your funny words magic man!)
it does interest me however because I've touched on the subject once when I was in high school, because I was hyperfixating on a lot of theoretical physics too but the actual science part stumped me (wdym it's both up and down at the same time??? howmst???) XD
still at least now I'm motivated to learn a lil deeper if only to find some sort of evidence about my hypothesis

[pine orchid]

since it's almost time for tennocon and there will probably be more discussion abt the panels and such I do wanna mention that the hypothesis I'm working with has to do with entropy, Sentients, and Void, but I don't wanna put it out there yet bcs at this point it's still conjecture and I don't believe I have a firm enough understanding on the topic of thermodynamics and radiation yet to comfidently state my hypothesis, I wanna find at least some evidence for it first Xd
and if my findings disprove my hypothesis, then at least I've gained more understanding of physics concepts Xd

[sage moat]

i hope you enjoy your research

radioactivity science is one of my favorite fields

[pine orchid]

thank you!

good to know, I'll return with the hypothesis once I either find a morsel of supporting evidence/theory or am stumped Xd

[lean garden]

hey man sometimes you can just thwack it out and see if anyone knows anything for or against it

[proven ridge]

dm me your hypothesis

[pine orchid]

I know, but if I do that then I lose my motivation to learn and find out for myself! I wanna at least give it a go by myself first Xd

[lean garden]

[pine orchid]

perhaps a little later, I'm still keeping onto the energy of "I must find out what this is!" for now
but thanks for the offer!

[proven ridge]

alright

[proven ridge]

caliban prime confirmed

and sentient prime ???

[drifting narwhal]

Looks beautiful 😍

[proper barn]

Well just his summons.

[drifting narwhal]

What was the sniper getting primed?

[strange plinth]

unique prime iirc
no regular variant

[drifting narwhal]

Nice

Can't wait to pick that up

[timber dew]

there you go

[drifting narwhal]

Thank you🔥

[timber dew]

Np :3

[south nimbus]

Nice

[proven ridge]

it looks really good, let's hope it'll have some lore behind it

[drifting narwhal]

Yeah

[timber dew]

also got a image of the Calibans sentients primed

[drifting narwhal]

I wonder if there will be a prime trailer or not🤔

[south nimbus]

I am curious on what ballas will say in his trailer

[timber dew]

i think there will be tbh

100%

[south nimbus]

Because it’s the sentient Warframe so I really want to hear what ballas says abioyt it

[lean garden]

confirmed

[timber dew]

bet

[lean garden]

art fella said he heard the pitch "for the next prime trailer"

and we know whos the next prime

[timber dew]

yea

[drifting narwhal]

DE cooking so hard already

[south nimbus]

Stayanax prime is so close

[timber dew]

im excited for Voruna prime tbh

even thou thats next spring

[drifting narwhal]

I'm excited for kullervo Prime

[timber dew]

true

[drifting narwhal]

Devil warframe

[south nimbus]

Harrow tweaking rn

[drifting narwhal]

What do yall think will be the reward for the relay in a few hours?

[south nimbus]

Plat

[timber dew]

o.o huh

[strange turtle]

Mini-Murex skin for railjack. But not like a properly made one, the models just stretched really far and bent in some places

[drifting narwhal]

That would be absolutely lovely

[sage moat]

guard up lore discussion, narrative is the next panel

[drifting narwhal]

We getting a music teaser

[sage moat]

just the teasers i think but the teasers are a banger so

[drifting narwhal]

Yeah

[placid cypress]

New frames name is gonna be Mara

[sage moat]

do we have any confirmation about that

because major doubts.

first, it seems not-very-void related
Second, i doubt they would reveal one of the most anticipated voidtongue words via a new frame

[glacial bough]

IT'S LORE TIME

[sage moat]

is this the first time its been officially called the "Void War Saga"

[glacial bough]

Not really, it's how it's listed in the Codex

[strange plinth]

its been titled the void war on their website iirc

yeah

[glacial bough]

3 NEW PROTOS CONFIRMED

[drifting narwhal]

2 are getting shown today

[placid cypress]

ITS GOD DAMN LUA, I BET LUA GOT TRANSPORTED TO TAU WHEN LOTUS MOVED IT

[glacial bough]

It didn't

We know it didn't

[sage moat]

its like orbiting earth right now

you can go there

im betting on a hydroid proto

"hunhow does something" seems extremely likely but its in an inopportune spot for a bingo

[wide fulcrum]

When new proto frame, me need proto frame now

[strange turtle]

…we literally can’t get to Tau rn that’s why people are so hyped that the Tennocon revealed content might set us on the path to getting there

[proper barn]

in the lore plan they talked about rebuilding this side of the rail

[lean garden]

more like hinted at it

vaguely

[strange turtle]

Oh damn I didn’t realise we were getting that kind of detail stuff in that bit

[coarse snow]

Anyone know what the glowing light opposite of Sol is in the new relay?

[proper barn]

no

[sage moat]

KAIJU BOSS FIGHT

I TOLD YOU DAWG!!!

[pine orchid]

Technically Orokin Era Tau?? XD

or Old War Era Tau

[proven ridge]

maybe that's the operator qorvex was supposed to protect

[smoky solstice]

holy crap this is amazing characterization, loid, having already experienced the whole "I have to do it at all costs" mindset, tries to do the best he can to stop it

ok I'm so confused

so the sentient and orokin actually worked together in tau (at some point at least)?

[pine orchid]

ohhh this is so interesting

[sage moat]

and we were IN TAU

[smoky solstice]

so the orokin were successful, but it seems that's because the sentient weren't actually rebelling at some point in time when they got to tau
but why the hell are the tenno there

[pine orchid]

what was the timeline like?

[smoky solstice]

omg and new gameplay

[smoky solstice]

it seems like we're looking at the past, not the present, because we're looking at tenno memories

[pine orchid]

was it sentient wars first and then warframes and tenno discovered right?

[glacial bough]

This timeline is where the Orokin and Tau made peace somehow

[pine orchid]

yeah, but the history we know of is a bit different

[lost pike]

Now tell me how Calliban Prime Exists

[smoky solstice]

I mean it's weird right, because it seems like this is pre-war against the orokin, because the sentient still worship the orokin, based on them being fine with ballas being a whole statue-esque figure

[pine orchid]

but if this is the past, I called Old War Era Tau Xd sort of

[lost pike]

And how we gonna get pieces from the relics and use void

[smoky solstice]

wait there's factions

it just said the dude is orokin empire, which implies there's factions which are not

FULL ON FACTION COMBAT?

[sage moat]

curious, a dax revolution of some sorts on tau?

[pine orchid]

GODDAMN

[smoky solstice]

ARE THOSE DAX SOLDIERS???

FIGHTING AGAINST THE OROKIN EMPIRE?

[sage moat]

separatists?

[smoky solstice]

but it can't be, the dax are honour bound to serve the orokin at all costs

teshin could not do anything against the grineer queens no matter how much he wanted to

[sage moat]

well CLEARLY they're not!

[smoky solstice]

BUT IT WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE

also my stream crashed

but yeah, it would make no sense, if the dax could rebel, there's no reason teshin would be serving the grineer queens

there has to be something more complex to this

[pine orchid]

stream is back

and uhh the relay was suddenly in TAU

[modern trellis]

this new quest doesnt make sense lore-wise

[smoky solstice]

I have no idea what the hell is going on

[smoky solstice]

WALL RUNNING

[smoky solstice]

idk if it doesn't make sense but currently there's absolutely nothing tying this to the rest of the story to even grasp on, this is completely new and idk what to think of this

OH OK, maybe the dax can rebel, but their separatist leader is also an orokin, so they can follow them maybe???

[sage moat]

this obviously doesn't work with our current understanding of the lore but that's how a story works you make new stuff

[modern trellis]

well, maybe we will wait and see

[smoky solstice]

sure although I don't remember being nearly as confused with 1999, like there was no preamble to any of this LMAO

just complete confusion

and the pre-tenno con trailers were a bait

it seemed to imply they died fighting the sentients but clearly the orokin empire got a foothold in tau after all

[sage moat]

seems to be the case

[smoky solstice]

there seems to be some sort of treaty, meaning that maybe the sentients came to some agreement to remain subservient to the orokin empire but have autonomy in the tau region? and the separatists see this as a sham, since they're still basically slaves to the orokin despite the autonomy?

[glacial bough]

It's a full on alternate timeline

[smoky solstice]

but how the hell are the tenno there

[glacial bough]

Some Orokin split away, some didn't

[smoky solstice]

ok wait

this is mid-old war, they managed to get a treaty with the sentients after the tenno and the warframes, since that's what turned the tide

there are separatists but

I mean I'm still confused how the hell are the tenno there

[glacial bough]

Yeah, in this reality peace somehow got made

[smoky solstice]

the only attempt at getting to tau was the zariman ten-0 and it failed

and there's no way they travelled the long way

[glacial bough]

They just would've used the Rail

[smoky solstice]

isn't the rail still too painfully slow to get to another solar system

[pine orchid]

there was a hunhow line about sending steel and blade to tau(?) idk Im still focused on trailer

[smoky solstice]

by solar system I mean star system

[sage moat]

so the seperatists are like anti-sentient and the orokin are pro-sentient? this might be pre-old war

[smoky solstice]

but I'm thinking this is mid old war still

[sage moat]

the older war. a war before the sentients rose up

[glacial bough]

No? The Solar Rail is intant FTL

[smoky solstice]

I'm thinking the separatists are pro-sentient, but anti-treaty, which seems to be implied to be a treaty with the sentients and orokin

[smoky solstice]

then why void jump

if they already have a way to tau

[glacial bough]

They didn't

[smoky solstice]

the reason I say pro-sentient

[glacial bough]

The Sentients were made after the Zariman

[smoky solstice]

is because of the line "you're the only ones keeping this war going" or whatever it was, basically like it seems like the sentient and orokin are at peace

and the separatists are the only ones keeping it going

[smoky solstice]

that cannot be true

the warframes were made mid-old war, as the orokin were getting destroyed

then they were gotten rid of, because they weren't subservient to the orokin

then the zariman journey happened

and the tenno appeared, giving another life to the warframes

[glacial bough]

No?

The Zariman is entirely separate from the War

[pine orchid]

THE OLD PEACE???

[sage moat]

The Old Peace you're joking

[glacial bough]

it's Zariman, then Sentients, then Old War starts

[pine orchid]

SO IS IT OLD WAR

AM I VINDICATED WITH MY SUGGESTION WE GET TO SEE OLD WAR

[glacial bough]

An alternate Old War, even better

[smoky solstice]

if that's the timeline, why the hell would the orokin experiment with the warframes, then they failed, then the children ended up controlling them, then they used them? it makes no sense

it makes a lot more sense if the children came along after the warframes

and they managed to actually control the warframes

[strange turtle]

Calling it now, the “him” at the end has a double meaning of meaning Adis

[glacial bough]

It doesn't, not in the way you're thinking

[sudden hamlet]

So we arent going to tau fully

[sage moat]

in 2026 yes

[sudden hamlet]

we are going into our MEMORIES to unlock old things from pre-old war

[glacial bough]

Because they needed a way to fight the Sentients that couldn't be subverted

[sage moat]

in 2025 we're seeing glimpses in a similar style to WitW's 1999 segment, i think

[lime moon]

So tau has been confirmed

[smoky solstice]

yeah but what I mean is like the way it's told is that the tenno came along after the warframes failed, that's how it's told in the sacrifice quest

[strange turtle]

…that’s not a mystery or anything. We are the “Chosen Operator” Albrecht designed him for (To use against the Murmur, hence the radiation damage). Didn’t you notice us getting called that?

[smoky solstice]

it's been pretty much confirmed for a while now tbh

[sage moat]

but warframes existed before the sentients fought back

[glacial bough]

They didn't. They couldn't

[lime moon]

But not explicitly?

[sage moat]

but this quest says they did

[smoky solstice]

this is not true, warframes were created because of the old war

[brittle siren]

So

[glacial bough]

The trailer we just saw is an alternate timeline

[strange plinth]

do we know that?

[sage moat]

what told you that

[smoky solstice]

it does not, ballas says that the orokin machinery didn't work against the sentient, since they were electronic, the sentient could turn it all against the orokin, so they turned to flesh and disease, warframes. it's a direct response to the fact that orokin technology did not work against the sentients in the old war

[brittle siren]

No it not

It literally our past

[lime moon]

So uh basically
Tenno were trying to go to tau , incident happened, sentients started invading the origin system. That's how the stuff played out right
So like an interstellar war

[proper barn]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[silk atlas]

Loid mentions "polluted histories" so clearly it's not 1:1

[proper barn]

I DISAGREE

I think it is 1 to 1.

[glacial bough]

It's not our past. Loid explicitly calls it corrupted histories

[steady trout]

https://tenor.com/view/baddies-evil-are-we-the-baddies-gif-15999841

[proper barn]

they literally said "we go to the past and then the presetn"

[brittle siren]

It just mean histories that not worth to remember lmao

[placid cypress]

Yall

[proper barn]

we literally worked with the baddies till we kill them all

[placid cypress]

PEAK

[sage moat]

i liked evil ordis

[wide marsh]

Aaaa I need lore refresh

[little kestrel]

Till the Dax turned the sentients against us then we killed them

[quartz bison]

i dont think thats ordis

[brittle siren]

"Polluted" means it not good to tak about or remembering

[lean garden]

this quest doesnt actually, this quest very much says "I cant believe our people used to be at war"

[sage moat]

its not ordis but it looks like ordis and looks evil, therefore evil ordis

[smoky solstice]

my idea is that the old peace was brought about from the tenno-warframe combo, the orokin finally had something the sentients couldn't fight against and it turned the tide, so the orokin and sentients came to a peace.

my initial theory was that the separatists were sentient, not really liking the idea of being subservient to the orokin under the new treaty, but since the separatist leader we see is clearly human, the enemies are dax soldiers, it seems like the separatists are orokin, so perhaps they're extermists who think that a much stricter control of tau is in order rather than the sentient autonomy that was given to them under the treaty.

[quartz bison]

yeah looks fire

[smoky solstice]

also all of this is in the current canon timeline because they're described as memories of the tenno

[glacial bough]

It's not our memories

[strange plinth]

maybe.. two wars?

[placid cypress]

I called Uriels Name ages ago lol

[lean garden]

Old and Older lol

[proper barn]

Well they talk about a treaty

[brittle siren]

It is... "I kill him" "it's me or him"

[smoky solstice]

@proper barn what do you think about this

[glacial bough]

That was the entire point of the Lotus loid interlude

[proper barn]

Not that it actually stoppedm

[strange turtle]

Yeah I think the polluted memories bit just means because like, from his perspective they’re memories of a bad time from our reactions

[glacial bough]

Because we're seeing them, not because they're our actual memory

[brittle siren]

What...?

[placid cypress]

I DID IT

[proper barn]

The separatists might be all Dax which isn't WAIT WHAT WAS HER NAME?

[little kestrel]

anachis iirc

[placid cypress]

OMG WORM SHIPS MAKES SENSE NOW IT WAS LITERALLY GRINEER

[strange turtle]

Agnastra or smthn like that

[sudden hamlet]

I knew we werent gonna go to current tau. But past tau is something i didnt expect. I had such a feeling before we fully go to tau we need to unlocked our repressed memories.

[brittle siren]

Then whose then? Natah is not even present there, how would she SAW all of that

[smoky solstice]

yeah that's what I'm saying, orokin extremists who do not like the order under the peace treaty, since perhaps under the treaty the sentients enjoy autonomy in the tau region

[brittle siren]

You making less sense every passing moment you speak

[proper barn]

Dax aren't orokin.

[steady trout]

I smell their eternalism at work with this what-if history. Just like Lua Eleanor

[lean garden]

scrolling all the way up here, because I dont think I see it quite addressed:

1. Why send the Zariman when the rail evidently was built already
2. Why send a colony ship with no proper weapons into Tau, the stronghold of the race youre fighting against?

[silk atlas]

The Tenno is playing as some dude within Lotus's memories, that's why there's the cords hooking them up together.

[sudden hamlet]

Those are our memories straight up

[proper barn]

Also they might show what the orokin are doing to the sentientx and that's why the sentients like "rebel" again. @smoky solstice

[sage moat]

so here's my theory
Old War
Warframes come along to stop the old war
Old peace
Ballas gives the secrets of the tenno
Hunhow manages to strike back, violating the treaty
Old War again
is this possible?

[smoky solstice]

ofc they aren't, the enemies are dax, but dax are soldiers of the orokin, subservient to the orokin, in fact strictly subservient, no chance of rebellion or anything, as we learn from the war within
the leaders of the separatists are orokin, the dax are simply forced to abide by their orders

[brittle siren]

That Lotus ticking our memory since we lost many of it lmao

[tacit jackal]

This story arc gonna have more PAIN

[analog tinsel]

so is this new update set before the old war?

[brittle siren]

It not that deep lmao

[glacial bough]

It's an alternate history wholesale. It's not our memory, but it is an us in another timeline

[brittle siren]

You keep getting it wrong lmao

[strange plinth]

that's what i'm thinking, basically

[smoky solstice]

ok so the second question seems to be a rhetorical one, implying there was peace there, but how is the first question adressed, why send the zariman?

[strange turtle]

Additionally, why wouldn’t the sentients or their cover story be mentioned in the Kim where we talk about the past attempts at colonisation, if The 10-0 came after

[lean garden]

I think perhaps ballas giving secrets is earlier? Otherwise you running about in Tauron in peace makes little sense because they dont need ballas's data, they have eyes, many of them

[brittle siren]

This is not even related to the void and yet you keep saying "alternate history". Like Lotus does not have that kind of power

[sage moat]

then why did the war resume?

did the sentients just get sick of orokin rule?

[glacial bough]

The Zariman is before everything

[analog tinsel]

honestly, the weirdest part of the whole situation is just that we.........still kinda don't know what Tau is?

I was hoping Tau would be a wholesale new solar system, but based on the demo it seems like it's an open world?

[smoky solstice]

because like the way I see it, the solar rail is fast, it can travel between planets fast but to get to another star system, it's a large amount of lightyears, even with ftl travel, it would take an insane amount of time

[strange plinth]

they may not have known that lua was the weakspot?
it doesn't make sense to put the "this is what the tenno are" bit in the vitruvian thing if that's the case though..

[analog tinsel]

mind you, it's probably not open world for this update, but presumably in 2026 it will be

[brittle siren]

It probably because Adis saw us kill Sentient that lead to another War

[lean garden]

the second question is not rhetorical, you stated that it was mid-old war, so why did they send a nigh unarmed colony ship to the enemy stronghold

[glacial bough]

No

[sage moat]

oh my god this could be correct

[worldly knot]

They called me mad for suggesting Old War Tau

[placid cypress]

||*OH MY GOD IT ALL MAKES SENSE THIS WAS OUR MEMORIES, THE DAX TURNED AGAINST US ON TAU AND BEGAN TO REBELL AND TURN THE SENTIENTS AGAINST US, THE REASON THE DAX ARE BAD IN DUVIRI IS BECAUSE OUR SUBCONCIOUS REMEMBERS THAT THE BETRAYED US ON TAU OH MY GOD DE THIS IS A MASTERPIECE*||

probs not but oh well

[brittle siren]

Again
Lotus is connecting with our brain
She is making us remember all of that
This is not Wally shaking hand paradox kind of shit

[smoky solstice]

I mean it's a bit rhetorical but I get your point, ig atsiaz is right, it had to be before the old war then, nvm
you're right @glacial bough this is one thing I didn't think about

[sudden hamlet]

We technically violated the treaty only due to the fact it was us or him forcing our hand to save adis and ourselves or risk adis and us dying.

[brittle siren]

And if Loid knew about it, then it not from alternate timeline

[placid cypress]

My only qusetion, where is wally in all of this

[sage moat]

i think we're taking a short break from wally

[brittle siren]

It not the direct reason, it may light the spark

[tacit jackal]

I'm sure this is disconnected from that

[astral leaf]

Okay

[quartz bison]

finally

[sudden hamlet]

which would have sparked the war back up either way if anyone else found out about it that a sentient killed a tenno.

[smoky solstice]

hey @lean garden do you think this theory is sound or do you see some holes in it?

[strange turtle]

This is the Operator, and Tenno. The Drifter created Duviri and didn’t experience any of that

[lament vapor]

This is alot to take in and I intend to shoot my shot at explaining it when there's less of a fever around it lol. I am combing through every source I can find lol

[astral leaf]

So this isn't an alt-history, eternalism shenanigan, right? Does it line up? I thought Warframes were made in response to the Sentients?

[hot imp]

I'm not quite getting it, how did Tenno even went to Tau? And when

[brittle siren]

Yep

[silk atlas]

The Tenno were never in Tau outside of getting their butts whooped during the Old War, so that's also something to consider.

[lean garden]

we need more info, peace through tennoframe combating sentients might make sense, but Im trying to figure out how does hunhow fit in the picture

[hot imp]

That's what I thought

[brittle siren]

As Loid said, it's a pulluted histories, so many choose to not even add it in any kind of data

[heavy wharf]

They are, and they "won" the war and now have a treaty which is about to break (I think)

[astral leaf]

Doesn't Ballas basically say as much?

[tight plank]

I wonder if Loid called it polluted history because of Ballas's manipulations? We know he is collaborating with the Sentients after all.

Maybe the "separatists" are actually loyal to the Orokin empire. I could be wrong but I saw no Dax amonst the blue "Orokin empire" and the Dax do have their loyalty hard coded.

[lean garden]

they were, they directly mention us and them being at war before in the new quest

[smoky solstice]

why do you think he has to? like we see "hunhullus" but it doesn't have to be the same being, does it?

[strange turtle]

Do you just like, not know the Drifter lore at all

[abstract ridge]

this has got to be an alternate reality right because didnt we never make it to tau to build whole colonies and such?#

[strange turtle]

No it’s not

[abstract ridge]

i thought the whole thing was that we never made it to tau

[astral leaf]

Ok, so let's see

the war happened, and then there was a period peace between sentients and Orokin? Is that right?

[lean garden]

hunhullus isnt hunhow

[strange turtle]

Just lemme set it out for u real quick

[brittle siren]

We don't remember many things

[lean garden]

thats what its looking like, very new info

[analog tinsel]

https://x.com/PlayWarframe/status/1946688153592443048

"distant memories of the old war"

WARFRAME (@PlayWarframe)

Coming in 2025: The Old Peace.

Awaken the past through distant memories of The Old War in our next major cinematic update. https://t.co/k15lyVMCGv

X · Jul 19, 2025, 9:46 PM

[strange turtle]

We as in, the people on the Zariman 10-0. This is way after that

[brittle siren]

Stop saying it an alternate reality, Lotus is literally showing us the past that hidden in our brain

[strange plinth]

why'd they call isleweaver the big 2025 update if the old peace is this year
what

[abstract ridge]

yeah we dont remember it but we KNOW for a fact through all the quests like sacrifice and such

[sage moat]

so EITHER
Old War
Peace
Ballas betrays the orokin, sparking another old war
OR
Old War
Old Peace
We kill that sentient, sparking the new old war
OR
new idea

[placid cypress]

hype

[brittle siren]

What is your reasoning here

[sage moat]

What if this is a ballas specific colony that he started in an attempt to create a safehaven DURING the old war

[hot imp]

So, after Zariman thing, Operator at some point somehow went to Tau, right?

[placid cypress]

Second option but ballas being ballas abandons us to keep himself alive

[astral leaf]

Then that would mean that what's happening now with these seperatists is probably what led to the tenno turning on the Orokin

[brittle siren]

Idk, it has to be during old war

[silk atlas]

Zariman never made it to Tau as far as we last knew.

[tight plank]

We always made it to Tau at some point, Mag Prime's lore shows a battle taking place in Tau but details of how we got there and how the old war went is scarce.

[hot imp]

Yeah, I mean at some point after

[abstract ridge]

bro how the hell can we have an allience with the sentients when ballas himself says at the start of the vitruvian "it is with the greatest of risk that i commit this recording", he defected by his alliance with the sentients

[brittle siren]

@glacial bough

[sage moat]

the alliance ended, easy

[abstract ridge]

yeah i know thats why i said buildings and stuff, we made it to tau but only a few small battleships which instantly died

[smoky solstice]

exactly, so like idk if hunhow does tie into this. I mean ig hunhow would have to play a role in the whole treaty stuff, that's fair, but he might be like a leader of the sentient, perhaps of the modest kind. Like if the separatists are orokin extremists, and they did enough damage to erode the treaty, perhaps he just said enough of this crap and reinitiated the war effort against the orokin, since the peace wasn't working

[brittle siren]

The real reason why we join Ballas doing treaty is unknown for now, but we DID it

[proper barn]

Chat

[lean garden]

possible, old peace shattered by deeper revelation of orokin deceit, old war resumes, we pick up where we know

[humble sierra]

Operator doesn't have all their memories which means we have a lot of possibilities

[proper barn]

I'm so excited.

[sage moat]

this is absurdly cool

[proper barn]

This is so cool 2 tau updates

[sage moat]

im sure everything will make sense in time

[abstract ridge]

the treaty was never known about thoooo ballas had to hide his betrayal so he wouldnt get executed, this has to be some alternate reality bro

[tight plank]

With Loid calling it polluted history and Ballas being a known schemer, I would take everything we saw with a extreme dose of skepticism. Maybe mind-controlled Tenno?

[proper barn]

I'm SCREAMING AND THE LORE IS SO COOL

AHHHH

[brittle siren]

And yet some people think this is like Drifter situation all over again

[lean garden]

no like hunhow needs to fit somewhere because he's one of the head honchos in the fight in Origin side, he's the one ballas sent the data to, he's the one that let himself get clapped for the plan

[humble sierra]

Wonder why we need Lotus to plug into us for it

[sage moat]

so this quest is a two parter --- first our memories of orokin-era old war and then probably modern-day tau?

[smoky solstice]

@lean garden actually now that I think about it, doesn't natah say that hunhow was a farmer? actually, now that I think about it, he wasn't the leader of the sentients, but after the peace treaty started eroding, perhaps hunhow grew in popularity. Contemporary sentient leadership was losing support, since the peace treaty wasn't bringing them actual peace, because the orokin extremists stopped that from happening. So hunhow stepped into the mix, being a voice of the people in a sense, saying screw the treaty, we have to go back into war with the orokin?

[heavy wharf]

And it so clear it isn't 💀

[potent raft]

ive been out of the lore for a while. so apparently we had a temporary truce with the sentients?

[tight plank]

Maybe the true way to Tau was hidden inside the rectum of Brodius all along?

[sage moat]

APPARENTLY

[brittle siren]

She can get into ppl mind by connecting directly

I think

[lean garden]

this is brand new for all of us

[glacial bough]

We have no idea what the connection to Lotus is for

[lean garden]

not sure if thats the way it would pan out, but depends on how it unfolds

[sage moat]

oh also we're going to tau to find albrecht right

[brittle siren]

She literally has the cord plug in to our head

[sage moat]

like obviously that's what the operator was saying before being cut off. just good to establish facts

[lean garden]

yeap, thats what they say when we're not deep in our memories

[white goblet]

Lotus communicates with all tenno using that headset, maybe that connection is deeper than we thought, ig

[strange turtle]

Alright so @placid cypress

When Wally and the person that became the Operator (the og player character) made a deal, in that moment there were multiple possibilities of how it played out.

In the Operator’s, the kids all got powers and eventually became the Tenno.

In the Drifter’s, Wally “saved all of them”, as he said he would. Unfortunately, that didn’t include the Drifter. They created Duviri through CE and spent their childhood as the friend of Thrax. When they got older and developed and Thrax didn’t, things went downhill and ended up at the situation we see in the quest, with the Drifter being executed and attacked by the Dax.

[smoky solstice]

yeah I mean I'm just speculating, but I'm just saying that because of natah's lines about hunhow having humble beginnings. Like if hunhow was just a humble farmer to begin with, for him to become a leader of the sentients, perhaps it was just the circumstances of the fragile peace the orokin and the sentient came to

[brittle siren]

And when she connecting to her chair she could conmect to any tenno
So doing that directly would far more effective to get deep inside a mind

[sage moat]

also "the old peace" is a horrible awful stupid name. rare DE miss

[brittle siren]

What

L opinion

[lean garden]

I mean sure, we see hunhow the leader and phragasa the literal mothership

[white goblet]

nah I like it, after all the old peace comes before hte old war.

[sage moat]

they hated Valerie, because she told them the truth

[brittle siren]

Old Peace literally playing word with "Old War"

[smoky solstice]

yeah we'll see how it plays out, honestly I'm so thrown by this whole old peace thing that I'm just kinda thinking of a lot of ideas how it went from old war, to this, to what we got at the end of the day

[white goblet]

so from what we saw, I think this is a precursor to the old war, and it feels like the schism between orokin and sentient happened because of these seperatists.

Obviously we didnt mean to kill that sentient, but the fact adis was so hurt and threw off her mask to show her sentient face, shows that this thinking has been moving around sentient minds for a while

[strange turtle]

they hated Valerie because she was like Ballas, preaching poor opinions and too blind to acknowledge it

[proper barn]

Hmmmmmm

[brittle siren]

Who is that btw

[lean garden]

old war part 1 already happened, its mentioned in the snippet we saw

[strange turtle]

PopeVal. Val-erie

[sage moat]

i am valerie i don't like the name

(the name of the update. i love the name valerie)

[white goblet]

so maybe theres a part 2? that makes sense

[proper barn]

It seems to be our normal past.

[lean garden]

possibly

[brittle siren]

Yeah maybe this is Ballas attempt to "make peace" to the Sentient, but alas, Orokin cruelty remained. There is no peace at all

[sage moat]

this implies that this was not mid-old war

[tacit jackal]

Peace is a fallacy

[sage moat]

which... does anything stop there from being a moment of peace in tau?

[strange turtle]

Not necessarily

[smoky solstice]

but why a treaty if there wasn't a war to begin with? like when the sentients were sent to tau, they were subservient to the leadership. If they were subservient, why forge a treaty?

more importantly, in the tau region during the old peace, we see the tenno. And the tenno-warframe thing weren't really a part of anything before the old war.

[tacit jackal]

Orokin only serve their ends

[white goblet]

idk about that, it seems that the seperatists who are clearly 'anti sentient' are not necessarily affiliated with the empire itself

[brittle siren]

It does not implied anything lmao

[lean garden]

but the Old war part 1 prior must have happened because you and adis talk about it

[humble sierra]

What was the name of the new Protoframe group? The Devil's Triad?

[stiff fable]

yup

[brittle siren]

Yeah

[drifting narwhal]

Yep

[humble sierra]

Wonder why we didn't see Uriel's Protoframe

[placid cypress]

Called It( the name at least)

[brittle siren]

So we gonna get a Fungi frame and a scorpion frame?

[white goblet]

maybe there was two parts, we're working with 2 facts: sentients were driven back after the old war, and this segment happens post a war of some kind. so......... whats happening?

[tacit jackal]

Orokin Empire like: MORE CHILD EXPLOITATION YAY

[humble sierra]

Uriel's more of a demon themed one

[brittle siren]

Oh yeah

[sage moat]

oh you guys are right im a fool nvm

[brittle siren]

I think second part is just current Tau lmao

[drifting narwhal]

Yep

[humble sierra]

Yeah 2026 update will be Tau

[placid cypress]

2025 is Past Tau
2026 is Current Tau

[humble sierra]

Kinda like how we had a tease of 1999 in whispers

[smoky solstice]

honestly the whole adis thing is weird, because it speaks of a "shining moment where our branch of peace was not yet snapped", implying it was before any war, even though the fact that there were tenno and warframes assisting the sentients in the region implies the fact that the old war must've happened in some sense

[humble sierra]

But it seems like this will be much more than a tease