lore-discussion

[stiff fable]

unlikely

there just isn't any point

we're not trying to change the outcome of the Old War

also go to bed, it was late for you two hours ago lol

[sly pagoda]

Also altering the old war could potentially cause even more paradoxes

[normal mountain]

Archon Hunt Excavations mention a massive Narmer project
Maybe that's what they're doing

[little kestrel]

it could make the orokin win instead of the sentient

[strange turtle]

…ah. I always forget that it was meant to be jump and he wasn’t just gonna walk through a big one like what Albrecht has going on in the labs (yes I know the portal was like way out from the ship but it’s been a while I forgot that bit)

[proper barn]

There's no paradoxs right now i don't think. Not normally anyway. Cuz we just got the confirmation about the infestation being able to continue cuz we stopped the reactor explosion and that causes all the radiation wars.

[sly pagoda]

I mean technically the Orokin did win, the origin system held against the sentients.

It’s just that after that the Tenno bumped them off.

[strange turtle]

The Orokin did win, it’s just that we murked them right after and it was an intentional loss on the Sentient’s part and they weren’t truly defeated

[little kestrel]

so the sentients won in the end

[stiff fable]

eh, no one won

[tall echo]

No, the tenno did

[normal mountain]

It's sorta like the Clone Wars
The Separatists lost, but right after Palpatine immediately transformed the Republic into the Empire
So, technically, the Empire won the Clone Wars

In this case, the Tenno won the Old War

lol, just realized the Night of Naga Drums is essentially Order 66 in reverse

[sly pagoda]

Order 99

[stiff fable]

god I bet that's deliberate

[sly pagoda]

I think the Tenno were the final check the orokin ego wrote that their empire couldn’t cash.

Their empire was one lesson in Hubris falling into another

[stiff fable]

it's funny that basically every force in the Old War wanted to kill the Orokin by the end

[little kestrel]

so order 65 basically?

[stiff fable]

Like really the Old War was over who'd get to do it

[pine orchid]

that's a good point, it might not be us that caused the jump to old war era and we're just following the ones who did go there
kinda like how we followed albrecht to 1999

[sly pagoda]

Their great mistake is that to them anyone not part of the top of society was seen merely as a disposable tool. Eventually they were going to “create” something they could not contain at all.

[normal mountain]

And those fools did it twice (thrice, counting weapons like the Lephantis)

[sly pagoda]

Even their treatment of the 10-0 crew. Yonta and her team risked a single jump because telling an executor something is impossible tended to uh get “you have failed me for the last time” result, only it was jade light and not Lord Vader force choke.

[worldly knot]

I think it's more than twice. Grineer (Their clone workers), Dax (Bound warriors), Tenno (Before they were found useful as Operators), Warframes (Just make more of them), Sentients (Go be my robo builders and make this new system nice for me silly machines)

[dense herald]

uhh a question that I have to ask might be spoilers but reading through the act one story made it come back to me

do we get to create our own tenno/mc?

meaning how they look? skills if they have any?

[graceful swan]

Done The Second Dream yet?

[dense herald]

no, I was asking it as a gameplay type question but it has lore roots?

just wanted to know if they had a way for us to create our own character

[graceful swan]

Keep doing your quests

Answering that is spoilers

[dense herald]

well I am hyped, just asked as a hope we could make our own character

[dense herald]

but another question

how well would you say DE implemented the story? is it like dark souls which imo has rich lore but sucks in how it tells it with too much info being easily missed, or is it like a cutscene focus type story

[silk atlas]

If you're just beelining it through the quests then yeah Dark Souls would be "bad", so like... Don't do that

[dense herald]

I like stories that flows well and in order

[silk atlas]

The main important points about what's going on in the moment are told up front. Want to know more? Go after the item descriptions and codices and such.

[graceful swan]

Many people skip cutscenes and don't pay attention the story flows fine

[dense herald]

are side quest important? because I'll be honest for the deadlock protocol I skipped a lot of it because of frustation with the mission and protea boss fight made me rage quit

[humble sierra]

That one is more important than others because it introduces Parvos Granum, founder of the Corpus

[silk atlas]

A lot of them have extra lore to them, so important enough if you want the full picture

[graceful swan]

Some give important info

[silk atlas]

Deadlock very much on the higher end of good lore

[dense herald]

well going to try and watch a youtube video of it because I couldn't beat protea last I played and I have no intention of rage quitting right after I start playing again

[silk atlas]

Need to do it for Tenet weapons so uh gl

If you do go back to it, make sure to abuse Xoris even without the charges, it's a really strong weapon

[dense herald]

I just couldn't click with that weapon, I tried to brute force it but the cliche getting her to 20% health and failing the mission

and tenet weapons?

in hind sight there must've been some cheese method I could've found to beat her easy

and this opening cinematic after reading it on the wiki I had to watch it again because it was so hype seeing each frame being badass, I hope the future story has a lot of epic moments and cutscenes like this

I picked Excalibur just because he did a hero landing aoe wipe

[tall echo]

That cinematic was not actually made by DE, but a few moments get fairly close imo

[dense herald]

wait what?

[tall echo]

It was animated by an external studio hired by DE for that one cinematic

[silk atlas]

Turn the Specters into ghosts, suck them up by throwing Xoris at them, get 3 charges. Then you knock Protea down and hit her with heavy explosion while she's doing the rewind. Not much too it

[proper barn]

They made that easier

But also skill Issue./j

It actually is way easier now this was a change after it came out.

[dense herald]

really?

[proper barn]

Yes.

Even though I thought it was already easy but yes.

[dense herald]

it's been over a year iirc since I did that mission

[proper barn]

A year? I thought you meant when it came out.

Also even then I I think its easy but I would mod the xoris

It's one of the best melee weapons in the game for most of the star chart.

But you can wait to do it till later if you want.

[dense herald]

that is one of the issue too at the time low mr and low lvl xoris means no mods so doing base

[proper barn]

Gotcha.

I think if you vet like a frame with a real build and a modded Xoris you'll be fine.

Do it after the second dream you'll be fine.

[dense herald]

yeah most likely after mods is added to it, it would make the boss much easier but at the time low mod capacity, thankfully they changed it so your mod capacity isn't tied to your MR at low level

so no more 4-6 mod capacity

[dawn shoal]

I think it was directed by the guy who directed The Cloverfield Paradox

[proper barn]

Yeah they actually did a lot of new player improvements

[proper barn]

Also don't do this. You might get a spoiler.

Just wait till you can do it.

[normal mountain]

Fun fact
DE actually adjusted one of Mag's abilities to match what is seen in that cinematic
Holding Magnetize will do the cool bullet absorbing thing she does in that one scene

[jaunty oasis]

I’m glad they did it. I rarely use it but I like it

[peak compass]

I mean I love dark souls lore. I love the whole community effort to figure out whats going on. We got the same thing going in warframe

[dense herald]

"I love the whole community effort to figure out whats going on"

this is fine to an extent but imo darksoul storytelling sucks

[peak compass]

maybe Im a nerd but I love it lol

[tall echo]

Tbf dark souls lore is intentionally vague because michael zaki wants players to come up with their own stuff to fill in the blanks

[dense herald]

relying on the community to do everything and only relying on books is lazy, you have a game that can make dreams into reality and hidden books and tidbits is the best way to deliver the lore?

[dense herald]

less work for him

[tall echo]

No, it's because it's based on his childhood of reading english books

[dense herald]

I will never give a game a pass especially big budget ones to not have cutscenes or innovative ways to show the lore

heck have something similar to the paintings from gow where you find it and a painting like cutscene plays showing what happen in that lore dump

[tall echo]

Miyazaki believes that it's fun to try to figure stuff out with little information, that's not laziness or whatever

[dense herald]

he can keep saying that all he wants

[tall echo]

If you think it is, then that's a you problem

[dense herald]

I can tell you that 90% of darksoul players don't know a lick of lore

I have watched so many play the games and barely any lore found during the playthroughs

[tall echo]

Because they don't care about it, same as wf

[peak compass]

only nerds like me care about the lore

[dense herald]

If I could I would want to take a survey to figure out how much of the story the gamers know

[peak compass]

of which, warframe has quite a lot of lore to learn

[dense herald]

I would bet money wf will beat it handedly

[tall echo]

Lore people are a tiny fraction of every game community

[modern steppe]

tbh most of the Souls-like games don't necessarily need the lore be hammered into your head

[peak compass]

I am the choosen few! Fed me lore! 😛

[modern steppe]

a lot of it is communicated with the few quests and atmosphere of it. Granted I've only played Elden Ring and Sekiro and I'm not sure of the Soulsborne games, but it's likely similar

[dense herald]

the main issue I have is how it's delivered

[peak compass]

I need to learn what the whole 1999 quest even mean? lol

[tall echo]

Calling dark souls lore lazy or bad is inherently an uneducated argument

[dense herald]

? I said how it's delivered is lazy

[tall echo]

Same thing

[peak compass]

I mean, its actually very detailed in dark souls games. Its just presented as a puzzle to uncover

how its delivered is to clever to be lazy. If anything, it takes a lot of effort.

[tall echo]

Hunting down wally, mainly

[humble sierra]

Didn't they get GRRM to work on some lore? Crazy

[peak compass]

mostly. Not sure why a time loop is required. Were they attempting to trap Wally in 1999? Becuase that failed.

[humble sierra]

Crazy he was doing that instead of writing Winds of Winter, George

[modern steppe]

I mean I've been playing Elden Ring for like 40 hours rn and I think I have a fairly good understanding of the basics of the lore, and I haven't even done a lot of quests or watched lore vids

[tall echo]

Only for elden ring, and honestly I still think all he did was name the important characters after his initials and make siblings like each other too much

[modern steppe]

a lot of that came with the environment and the few dialogue shared with some of the NPCs

so 🤷‍♂️

[peak compass]

Elden Ring is way more direct with its story than any of the dark souls games

[modern steppe]

fair, but compared to Warframe imo it's less hammering in your head

[tall echo]

The reason for the time loop isn't explained too well

[peak compass]

warframe lore is easy. Ballas is garbage. Its alll his fault. EVERYTHING. lol

[modern steppe]

a lot of the lore in Warframe is pretty much relegated to quests and fragment entries

[humble sierra]

Entrati went to 1999 because it was relevant to history. He stayed in 199 because the Indifference was after him in the future, too. So to keep Loid safe, he stayed in 1999z

[peak compass]

except wally is kind of dr. Entrati's fault

[tall echo]

I have uh... a little more playtime...
-# 2 different files at 91 hours and 3 others at 40-50

[humble sierra]

But neither he nor the Indifference seem bound to that time

[modern steppe]

I'm still a newbie man

[tall echo]

I am ancient

[modern steppe]

I've just got to Leyndell

[tall echo]

Started another file just a few hours ago actually

[peak compass]

the rest of the game should be pretty easy then

[humble sierra]

I suck too much at Souls games to try

[modern steppe]

of course

[peak compass]

soul games from fromsoft are always far eaiser past the half way mark

[humble sierra]

That first boss was super tough. Soldier of Godrick? Couldn't get past him

Jk jk

[tall echo]

You can't be worse than me, I was stuck on radahn for 4 days on my first file

[modern steppe]

I mean tbf I played Sekiro first even thought he gameplay loop is different from Elden Ring

[tall echo]

Elden ring isn't

[peak compass]

ironically a lot of people get walled by Morgott so lol

[humble sierra]

Is Morgott the guy who gets a dragon hand second phase? I stopped there

[strange plinth]

i never even got to radahn lmao

[tall echo]

That's godrick

[peak compass]

I mean, it kind of is. I get the damage ramps up a lot in the forzen mountains but eh, theres plenty of ways to handle it.

[tall echo]

Morgott is the main boss of leyndell

[tall echo]

The forza mountains

[peak compass]

thats godrick

[humble sierra]

I beat him but my game immediately crashed and when I booted it back up it hadn't saved

[peak compass]

so I think you beat the first legacy dungeon and stopped.

ouch

[tall echo]

Would be nice to have people to do multiplayer with

[humble sierra]

Ask in #squad-recruitment lol

LFG Soldier of Godrick NG+ 1/3

[tall echo]

[placid cypress]

I wonder if Tau will be similar to Norse Mythology... Yggdrasil was mentioned in the devshort (yes I'm late)

[proper barn]

we do sometimes it's stronger than others.

[restive river]

If Tau mythology is similar to anything then it’s the culture Lettie talks about
The Chichén Itzá

Which is Mayan

Warframe’s version at least

[tall echo]

Chicken itzal

[humble sierra]

Watch it be revealed that Tau culture js all just a bunch of old Mythology

Suddenly we fight Kratos

[tall echo]

Kratos is very new mythology

[restive river]

It’s old by the time of the sentients

But yeah the sentients say stuff from mayan texts

Which is directly brought up with Lettie and it’s not known how or why

Drifter says maybe time travel but it doesn’t seem like a serious answer cause
They don’t know

[humble sierra]

What's the full context of the Yggdrasil thing at devshort? Could've been a joke

[tall echo]

Do I have to start watching devshorts as well now ._.

[restive river]

My guess is, if anything that’d be more about Soulframe
Since it has a big cool tree :)

[restive river]

You haven’t been?

[tall echo]

Nah

The ones I did watch never had any worthwhile info

[restive river]

Oh also I found a decade old post that may be more relevant :)

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/435490-popol-vuh-and-the-the-sentient-link-lore-speculation/

[barren jasper]

bookmarking this, this is cool

[pine orchid]

I was thinking about this recently again because voidtongue is my current hyperfixation-
but I was thinking about it, if Luscinia is the operatic singer in Tethra Jahrak, why would she be singing in voidtongue instead of the language she sings with in duviri paradox ost? I dont think we've ever seen the duviri people utter voidtongue before

then I thought wait, but doesnt the Lotus sing in voidtongue too? She's a sentient and not of the void
but like what if the lyrical parts of The Lotus Eaters song then isn't actually the Lotus singing? Lotus only sings the vocalisations, like in This Is What You Are, and the choir is the murmur/indifference because it's like an amalgamation of voices like what you hear in the beginning of the song. plus, it only sounds out lyrics at the end/beginning of Lotus' vocalizations aka the quietest parts of her singing?
it'll also line up with my wife pointing out, in that quest Lotus saying something to that effect
ofc, it is most likely she is talking about the kinepage ringing, but perhaps that then is represented musically by the choir as well

there's other songs in voidtongue that I dont think is the murmur directly 'singing' too though, like yara jeliira doesn't sound like murmur but it's like overlapping two male voices so maybe it's more likely to represent loid and albrecht? and the reason it's in voidtongue is because they're quite closely linked to the void and albrecht surely knows voidtongue
idk if loid himself knows voidtongue, maybe he might know a bit from Albrecht's research

something about the line "the call of angels, devils, life itself" stood out to me because both lotus eaters music and tethra jahrak feels like smth I'd hear in a church choir, which would make the angel connection reasonable
probably doesn't help that "mara" (aka child, probably) is mentioned in both songs and in religion (or at least the one I grew up with), the term "child" is used a lot to refer to followers or just people in general

[tall echo]

The lotus eaters song starts off with murmur chanting but it quickly gets drowned out by lotus' singing

[eager dragon]

Abother parallel to religion is that void angels are faithful to their creater (Wally), while the Tenno, who are often called "demons" by several sources, betrayed him in Whispers in the Walls (a.k.a. the "God")

[pine orchid]

yes!! they're literally called angels, and they sing in heavenly voices apparently too right? as mentioned by quinn in angels of zariman
so like, I can see an angelic choir in music being used to represent void angels, where we have murmur doing the chanting
(I should look into the angels of zariman quest music too, it hasn't flown in my radar yet so far bcs I've been so fixated on the newest voidtongue songs. UURIS, UURIS, KHRA KARIS goes hard as a chant Xd)
though another thing is that as far as I'm aware the void/coid-adjacent entities don't really call us demon? they call us mara-lohk, suspected to mean void-child, so another thing "ilve" could potentially mean might be something adjacent to "sinful" and it's like "sinful child, repent and return to me (the void)" kinda deal also probably unrelated but it's an anagram for evil lmao
the ones who call us demon are Helminth, Lizzie, Ballas/Orokin (I mean makes sense for the Orokin to call us that in their perspective, we're the ones who brought their ruin in the end after all)

[sly pagoda]

Truth is we do not know why Wally helped the kids or what precisely the deal was. We may never find out what it was as so far the lore has not indicated him directly telling the Tenno.

[pine orchid]

now that you mention it, yeah I don't think I've heard what the contents of the deal actually is, just that "we had a deal, kiddo!"

[proper barn]

Well Lizzie is helmith.

[sly pagoda]

I guess the good thing for Wally is by the time Warframe takes place, Lawyers do not exist as far as we know. So he cannot be stumped when finding out that you cannot force a minor to a binding contract.

[proper barn]

We know the terms of the deal

But now "what it meant".

It was "Wally will save everyone and we give him our light" that was it.

Wally did his half the Zariman Got out of the Void and there's even a "I said I would save them never said I would save you" taunt against the Drifter.

[pine orchid]

where was this again, do you remember? I wanna see if maybe the direct wording and context might shed a bit more light on it

[proper barn]

We just don't know what "our light" meant

[proper barn]

you see it happen in the new war in flashbacks and Drifter can talk about it in the kim chats. You think he's asking for your globe light but he could have meant something else

[pine orchid]

ooooh wait maybe that has a link to the uuris uuris khra karis chant, maybe it kinda means smth like "infinite light, infinite light, time to return to darkness"?
idk, just throwing theoretical pasta at the lorewall

[proper barn]

The only other time someone talked about our light is The Holdfasts who see both Drifter and Operator together but also since they are void beings they see us as like basically a giant light aura of light. @pine orchid @sly pagoda

[pine orchid]

ooh the one in the zariman flashback? imma go looksee, I dont remember coming across it in my own KIM messenger convos

[pine orchid]

OH SHI U RITE omg I cant believe I forgot he says that at the end of angels of zariman quest

[proper barn]

Like apparently we are so powerful as to drown out the song. Also just us being just near them turns back their Void corruption.

[proper barn]

Also at rank 5. But yeah.

[pine orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/buzzfeed-unsolved-shane-ryan-dumb-gif-25284802

[proper barn]

I can get mine if you want.

[pine orchid]

that might explain it uhh Currently rank 4 with Holdfasts qwq

[pine orchid]

that'd be much appreciated if you could

[pine orchid]

oh! globelight as in,.. the lamp thing we were carrying in that scene??? 😭

[proper barn]

Holdfasts are so easy just do a exterm Bounty kill the angel and do that over and over. You get Quills related to the tier of the Bounty and you always get a onion from killing the angle. (There's always a angel).

[proper barn]

Yes.

[pine orchid]

I've been severely procrastinating on them in favour of others like deimos and cavia (for helminth segments, mmmm got anymore of those uh... shards?)
and the hex because... wym we time traveled and then I saw them die and was like NO I GOTTA SAVE THEM
it doesnt help that last time I did a void angel bounty it glitched tf out and just wouldn't die..........

[proper barn]

Lul

[pine orchid]

but I should rank them up again soon I'm tryna grind for gyre, I just need her systems ajkhjkafl;kjsg

[proper barn]

I'll help you later if you want

[tall echo]

Holdslows?

[pine orchid]

ty for the offer!
I should be good though, I usually play with my wf vet wife and a fellow newbie friend of ours Xd

[proper barn]

Cool beans. Xaku my favorite caked up nonbiny skeleton is probably the best at Zariman.

[tall echo]

I want to rank up holdfasts but I somehow lack motivation to go to the zariman solo

[proper barn]

Same offer

[tall echo]

I'll take the offer if I'm still awake in the nebulous later times

[pine orchid]

oooh I do usually just go with my son Sevvie, but that might be a good excuse for me to bring out Xaku to play~ :3

[proper barn]

Yee

[sly pagoda]

I just did exterminate and farmed angel bits.

[proper barn]

You should do it as a Bounty so you don't have to find the feathers really.

[sly pagoda]

Holdfast is a modern faction so you can keep stashing up angel bits above and beyond your daily cap

[proper barn]

Cuz then it at least gives you 1 quill and at most 5 quills (based on Bounty tier)

Just for doing the Bounty and you get a onion for finding the angel.

[pine orchid]

I am ever so glad my wife has a parallax, and I recently acquired one for myself too bcs it's rlly nice to get all those extra syndicate medallions (and occassionally extra goodies too)

[sly pagoda]

I want a Parallax shuttle as my daily driver. Though I do not mean in Warframe.

Looks like it would fit in my garage and would make commuting a breeze

[proper barn]

The Parallax is the easiest ship to farm. Not counting Nightwave. Oh they did Decouple the ability from the Ships you just need to have the ship crafted

Though The Parallax is great and tiny.

[tall echo]

I love my tiny spaceship

[proper barn]

It is great

Not denying that.

Just if you want you can use a different ship and use orokin Eye.

[sly pagoda]

There is a funny part of me that wants to imagine the issues in Hollvania getting resolved, And the crew having to remind the drifter "NO you cannot just swing down to the Taco Bell in your tiny space ship, its 1999".

[pine orchid]

it's very cute, like a little mouse
I spent a hours in zariman solo just breaking as many containers as I could to get all its parts
only to then get a whole extra (I gave to my friend) while trying to get gyre 😔

[proper barn]

Yee

[sly pagoda]

because me here now would absolutely fly the Parallax around, But over the turnpike during morning rush and randomly turn the void mask off and then back on just to ignite conspiracies on Twitter.

[worldly knot]

I could eat this.
The Man in the Wall is one way or another getting the Lotus to hand you over to him. I've always taken the Kinepage to be the literal physical manifestation of Wally's call in that sequence.
Not biased because it's me, I am wife

Then there's the unsettling stuff she says afterwards when you visit her, the stuff about being the Daughter, the Mother, and the Witch.

Full Quote: "I was the Daughter. I became the Mother. In time I shall be the Witch, blind once again, empty of all but wisdom."

[pine orchid]

hmmm there are other concerning quotes too, I thought Daughter, Mother, and Witch was in reference to her three identities of Natah, Margulis, Lotus because she also says stuff in reference to that:

• "Within this shell, the three of us entwine. We forge a new strength."
• "Lotus. Margulis. Natah. We live... we rise... we endure."

But then she has more concerning lines that seems related:

• "The system is changing. We are changing. If I become something you do not recognize, do not mourn." (I took several screenshots in succession, so if the first part was actually a separate line, uh oopsie!)
• "It is hungry, Tenno. And I... am a distraction."
• "I will not let It devour one instant of my pain. Not even Ballas. Not even the Jade Light." (yes, capitalized 'I' It)

[humble sierra]

Yeah that last point seems to suggest MITW has offered to take away her pain but she won't accept the deal.

When did Lotus get the Jade Light? Or is she simply talking about Margulis? And if that's the case, how does she have Margulis' experiences anyways?

[graceful swan]

She was taught to be Margulis by a blue man

[humble sierra]

I know, but there's a difference between being told what Jade Light does and actually experiencing it for yourself. And from the sounds of it, she seems to have enough memory of it to be traumatized by it— "even" moreso than Ballas.

Though I guess I wouldn't put it above Ballas to actually blast her with Jade Light or implant that sensation into her brain somehow

[last wyvern]

So in Whispers, the timeline that we saw when we transferred into Arthur was the one where Wally won and claimed Albrecht. And in 1999 we stopped that from happening by distracting the Indifference by our presence and allowing Albrecht to escape right

[dire mountain]

No its the same timeline but different run of the timeloop

[pine orchid]

This sounds plausible especially since that's basically what he did with Neci, based on Once There Was a Spider (I forgor the proper title)

[pine orchid]

my theory on this is maybe because she was made to mimic margulis, she was given margulis' memories somehow like the echoes that we hear about her execution? that might be where it came from, in a similar manner to how cephalons can contain the memories and personalities of the people they were made from

[humble sierra]

Oooh, that would totally make sense if that's the case. I'm just gonna assume it is unless we've been told otherwise

[fluid panther]

I've a question, since idk much about the specific lore of Warframes, are Kullervo and Oraxia warframes created by/in Duviri or were they just brought there by Thrax and Neci?

[eager dragon]

Kullervo was "created" by Duviri, I think (could be wrong, though, don't quote me).

Oraxia was brought in by Albrecht.

[fluid panther]

So does that mean that Kullervo might get something different to a Prime or since Thrax is now good he will get a normal prime?

[eager dragon]

He will probably get a normal prime 'cause Void Shenanigans, like Valkyr.

[fluid panther]

Ok, thank you

[modern steppe]

He’s not created by Duviri or Drifter

His origin is not in Duviri, he came from the Origin system

His crimes list out things that set his story within the context of the Orokin Empire

[eager dragon]

But it's still a form of conceptual embodiment, no? I think the original Kullervo was slightly different.

I know about the crimes, yes. Also why Ballas is the Warden.

[modern steppe]

We don’t know if Kullervo looked like that originally or if he was changed into something that looks like he came from Duviri

[lean garden]

kullervo was not a frame from duviri

[modern steppe]

Also Acrithis has a line relating to Kullervo, stating that he came down as a “ball of flame”, and creating his island

[lean garden]

he hopped right in

[lean garden]

valkyr? she aint got no issues

[modern steppe]

the Valkyr thats related to Alad isn’t the only Valkyr in existence

[eager dragon]

The Prime is of the flayed Valkyr. Which shouldn't be possible 'cause Alad flayed base Valkyr.

Void shenanigans

[lean garden]

what makes you so certain that the prime is based on the flayed base in universe?

the prime has all her skin on

[modern steppe]

We also have her non-flayed version as a skin

[eager dragon]

'Cause it's not remotely close to her Geminus (or whatever it's called) skin?

[modern steppe]

Gersemi

[lean garden]

but it is close

i look at it and I go "yea kitty"

would you think nekros and nekros prime arent remotely close?

nekros prime deliberately features a grotesque organ design on his chest that the base lacks

[eager dragon]

She looks pretty flayed to me. Also the entire "Bezerker" thing came from being flayed, I think.

[eager dragon]

They are pretty close. Sevagoth isn't close, and that's 'cause the base got "sanded" away by the Void.

[lean garden]

thats... hardly similar to the flayed base form

[last wyvern]

A theory I like is that when Alad performed the experiments, Valkyr’s emotional and mental state was intensified to the point where the Void responded to it and created Valkyr Prime as a conceptual embodiment of Valkyr’s trauma

[lean garden]

that's 'cause the base got "sanded" away by the Void.
Which was pulled from where?

The designer's real world inspiration for creating the prime?

[eager dragon]

Isn't it mentioned in the quest? Been a while since I played it.

[lean garden]

same lines running from chest to legs

[lean garden]

absolutely not lol

[modern steppe]

No

He was just lost to the Void

[pine orchid]

Pulled from our imagination Xd /j
but honestly the idea for this, to me, is the way base Sevagoth looks like a skeleton, while Prime Sevagoth looks like a fully fleshed person with clothes
and then if you look at his calf-ankle area there's that weird, spur-bone-looking thing right? the way it changes from prime to base looks like as if there was a component/muscle that was holding it up that since decayed/eroded so it falls to that position
there is a little discrepancy in this idea with the helmet, the top part of base Sevagoth is farther forward than Prime Sevagoth's unlike the aforementioned spur-bone, which base Sevagoth's one comparatively seems like it stops just at the base of where Prime Sevagoth's would have the semi-circle bit

[worldly knot]

The other weird discrepancies could probably be dismissed as the usual void-morphing malarkey. Like, look at Gotva Prime and Aeolak which are likely the same weapon, just the latter is void-touched.

[winged flume]

Warframe just dropped a new vid on YouTube and it has the title Bring an End to All This. 👀👀👀👀

[placid cypress]

New teaser

[sly pagoda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUDUTyXMcfY

[swift sentinel]

"We crossed the gap – wombs in ruin – to bring an end to this." Another Hunhow quote

[faint depot]

all of them have been related to the sentience quotes, we see a lot of prime warframes and commonly we all see the starters in their Prime forms right next to a lotus as was a quotes at the end

[placid cypress]

My boy excal Prime

[faint depot]

oh look it's John Warframe ( can't believe I'm going to make that joke)

[sly pagoda]

that flag in the distant background flapping too.

[placid cypress]

Were gonna Transfer into him

[swift sentinel]

So the full pledge is:

[swift sentinel]

"We swore to carry the sacred light of our dominion into the deepest dark and this we have done. Swear now to defend this holy treaty alongside our blessed and brave creations."

[placid cypress]

Is that an orokin pledge?

[empty fjord]

im struggling to figure out when and who would be making that pledge

[swift sentinel]

Did the Orokin send people to Tau with the Sentients?

[placid cypress]

Maybe

[empty fjord]

that does fit actually

[faint depot]

I noticed the lyrics all of them have in common is

onward Hie, onward Hie

who but we may tame the sky

but who we shall Distant die on that farshore forlorn

[swift sentinel]

Yeah, that the chorus.

I think the ones making the pledge might be the Riftguard from the Tennocon syandana.

[glacial bough]

No

[placid cypress]

what if tau is the actual planet and not the system, maybe its a binary system between a massive planet and a small star~~(or black hole)~~

[graceful swan]

Tau is both

[empty fjord]

not alongside the sentients but after the rail opened, and those are the people saying the pledge from the trailers

[swift sentinel]

I agree that it would be a retcon, but it's not an unthinkable twist.

[empty fjord]

liaisons perhaps

[placid cypress]

each ship had a tenno (mag prime etc) and grineeresque workers

[graceful swan]

The only person to call Tau a planet had also never been to Tau in their lives

[placid cypress]

watch tau have some void gimmick where it exists out of time or sth

[abstract ridge]

okay well we know how the quest will begin its gonna be us transferring into the excal prime maybe as some fanservice since we will never be able to get him

[placid cypress]

ofc

[lean garden]

couldnt be, the journey was only accomplishable by Sentients alone

humans wouldnt have survived

[abstract ridge]

that would be stupid bruh

already got all that weird stuff with duviri and 1999

[placid cypress]

kinda looked like drifter (in excal), idk why but the movement of the hand was similar to the ground punch

[placid cypress]

tru

but its gonna be op

[abstract ridge]

it was but its also jus a way to get off the ground

[glacial bough]

I would hold off on assuming we're transferring into a frame

[placid cypress]

is drifter just gonna be sidetracked now to stay in 1999?

[lean garden]

ground punch is usually with the hand front to the camera, and in a fist, this is something getting up

[placid cypress]

we havent heard from Operator in ages

are they justkicking about with ventkids or something?

[glacial bough]

Operator is going about usual business in the system

[abstract ridge]

this is gonna be an operator heavy quest i hope we havent got anything since jade shadows

[glacial bough]

Drifter just keeping us updated on the next steps

[little kestrel]

Is that a new Warframe in the teaser? Doesn't seem to look anything like the ones we have now

[abstract ridge]

second dream war within and sacrifice days were peak warframe frfr ❤️❤️

[placid cypress]

i like drifter more, more mature and relatable but i understand that op was the original protag

[abstract ridge]

the one at the end? that’s excal prime

[glacial bough]

Operator has not been out of the story that long, it's barely been a year

[little kestrel]

Drifter keeps rizzing up the hex while the operator does the dirty work

[placid cypress]

we need better operator drip

[abstract ridge]

thats fair, for me its operator is just a much more interesting character with all his lore

[placid cypress]

fair

just realised, will founders be able to reach LR whatever before everyone else?

[glacial bough]

Yes, just

[placid cypress]

since they have excal prime and guns

[little kestrel]

They have an extra Warframe so probably

[placid cypress]

FOMO 😭

[humble sierra]

Yeah but they only have like an extra 10k XP points, which isn't really much

[placid cypress]

apparently the excal prime contract lasts 10-12 years

[little kestrel]

And when did it start?

[lean garden]

are you talking that from a rando in general?

[placid cypress]

yes lol

[lean garden]

theyre just saying things lol

[placid cypress]

lmao

[humble sierra]

If it was just 10-12 years we would've gotten it by now

[lean garden]

its right next to a dude who thought that excal's body was used in an archon, and another dude who thinks we've never seen excal prime in a cutscne before

[lean garden]

yea its the 14 year already

[strange turtle]

Why would there be a contract limiting it?

[modern steppe]

Don’t forget that the entire existence of Excal Prime was to help fund the game when it was in its early days

It was a reward for the people who supported it

So having it be on some sort of contract is wack

[lean garden]

it was a promise between founders and DE for the founder stuff to be exclusive, any notion that it lasts for 10-12 years is brand new copium

[strange turtle]

Isn’t the whole issue with exclusive stuff that it would be false advertising if they went back on it being a limited and exclusive thing, which is why the older heirlooms don’t come back?

[lean garden]

like excal prime copium is normal, but a rando 10-12 years, especially 14 years in is brand new random copium

[sly pagoda]

Its one extra warframe, there is so much stuff in the game that the one frame worth of MR is a blip in the signal.

[placid cypress]

fomo

[humble sierra]

Tbf that's an easy assumption that can be made thanks to copyright contracts often having an expiration period. In Australia for example, seventy years after the owner's death, their property becomes public domain

But it's still an assumption, and you know what they say when you assume something...

[abstract ridge]

oh shittt but the sentients did turn fallen warframes into archons so maybe slmething will happen with that

[lean garden]

sure, but not in the archons we have at home

[abstract ridge]

new archon bosses i hope

but like actual bosses

[modern steppe]

Done, more bosses with obscene damage attenuation, nulli auras, and mag pools

[sage moat]

2 days before our world is shaken

or 1 who knows maybe they'll get crazy at the tennoconcert

[humble sierra]

I'm personally hopping the TennoConcert gets "overrun" with Techrot

[sage moat]

reb goes on stage with her bass ready to shred and before any music plays she says "Pazuul is wally" and without any extra context begins shredding

[quartz bison]

whats the link between pazuul and wally

[sage moat]

i was just thinking of something random there's no way that's true

pazuul does know about wally though

[slow tiger]

Yall a new teaser just got released on the Warframes and I just realized something in the 3 teasers currently out there the primes shown are 6 of the original 8

[quartz bison]

does he?

[sage moat]

"and I beheld a great ram. And the horns of him were crowned with sol and with tau. and upon his tongue, the zariman flame. and the great Daemon of the void cowered before him and he feared it not"

[slow tiger]

The primes are dormant or dead with metal lotus flowers in front of the 3 beginning frames mag Excalibur and volt

[pine orchid]

could you list out which ones? I'm not cool enough to recognize all the frames by sight yet qwq

[sage moat]

after this line, if im remembering right, lotus says "Pazuul is not merely insane, tenno"
So im pretty confidant pazuul is familiar with our local dealmaker

[sage moat]

thats cool actually

[glacial bough]

There's a Mag, Ember, Nyx, Volt, Loki, and Excalibur

And maybe a Rhino

[slow tiger]

Of course! Ember, mag, Excalibur, Loki Nyx and rhino is the only one Im not hundred percent sure

The one with Loki and Excalibur just released this morning

[humble sierra]

Like 20 minutes ago

[lean garden]

in the context of that sentence she's referring to Erra fighting pazuul from within

[dire mountain]

Now that youre infested invested

[slow tiger]

Yall don’t understand the lore lover in me is going crazy

[sage moat]

that's a fair read yeah

[quartz bison]

when do yall think tau will be revealed? i'm thinking end of 2026

[lean garden]

that said, he still does mention the demon of the void, so its either wally or the tenno

[glacial bough]

Tau is certainly not until 2026 at minimum

[placid cypress]

Me everyday

[sage moat]

i would bet wally because i feel like that's just where the line reads. i think if he was referring to the tenno he'd say "And the mighty demons of the void" or something

[pine orchid]

what is this one? my brain cant comprehend the shapes, help?

[sage moat]

loki, i think

you can see the horns

[quartz bison]

the one at the end?

[pine orchid]

ah, is he like buried under sand and that's his horn sticking out?

[slow tiger]

That’s Loki you can tell by the horn shape on the helmet

[modern steppe]

There’s also the large leg armor

[silent matrix]

Loki Prime

[quartz bison]

have you seen the flag in the background swinging

[slow tiger]

The flag is really interesting

[quartz bison]

im wondering what could that mean

[slow tiger]

It could mean a lot a battle took place there

[pine orchid]

ty for the help!

[quartz bison]

the meaning could change drastically by what is on that flag

[worldly knot]

Shout out to the Life Support Capsule btw

[quartz bison]

why did i think it was a boltor buried underground

[slow tiger]

The thing that is throwing me off is the first excerpt says “our history is smoke” which is a quote from the natah speech from the ropolayst mission

[pine orchid]

I think it could be alluding to a battle, perhaps as part of the war even
if this is Tau, is it then meaning we're seeing the aftermath of some of the Orokin forces (frames and grineer) that were sent to Tau to fight the Sentients?

[pine orchid]

POV you failed Survival mission

[steel prairie]

No shout out, they are dying, it didn't do it's job

[slow tiger]

Implying that maybe we’ve been lied to about stuff

[quartz bison]

ok the frames are there but where are the tenno

[dire mountain]

Disconnected

Mom unplugged the transference router 💔

[quartz bison]

server was full

[quartz bison]

the queens

[steel prairie]

Tau signal is weak 😔

[quartz bison]

they better get some better wi-fi out there bruh

[slow tiger]

And the fact that lotus lied to everyone in the past i wouldn’t past de that maybe there a lot going on here then we realize

[lean garden]

hang on, lied to about what lol

[worldly knot]

The Excalibur Prime at the end beginning to move makes me be like O-O

[pine orchid]

ditto, which lorebit part is relevant to this that may have been a lie? 😅

[quartz bison]

it moves?

[slow tiger]

The whole point of the second dream that lotus wasn’t telling us about being kids from a void infested ship that magically reappeared out of nowhere

[worldly knot]

Watch right until the last seconds

[lean garden]

? which is?

[pine orchid]

post credits scene XD

[quartz bison]

oh shiiiii

[pine orchid]

the tenno being put to sleep in lua? cryogenic sleep?

[quartz bison]

i didnt see thatt

[worldly knot]

The transferrence static is hitting

[slow tiger]

Then that we were voluntold to control the Warframes

[sage moat]

This is an opportunity to knock out a ton of my bingo spaces

OH WAIT WE GOT THE THALYS

[slow tiger]

I’m saving this

[tribal fossil]

Wait why Oberon rework? He's pretty good rn, no?

[quartz bison]

btw ive been thinking about this for a while.. we know that captain vor gets an order by the queens to destroy the warframe cryopods, but why do corpus attack them too? doesnt that make it false lore wise?

[glacial bough]

No?

[worldly knot]

This is a joke right?

[lean garden]

why do corpus attack warframe cryopods? to get to the warframes inside

they sell warframes to each other lol

[sage moat]

He's not like the worst ever but his kit has glaring issues

[lean garden]

they sold a mag for like a thousand plat

[slow tiger]

I might either really crazy or on to something

[quartz bison]

insane pricing

[tribal fossil]

I haven't played him yet, but my clanmate loves bringing him into missions, so I assumed he's a pretty good support frame

[sage moat]

My hot take is that an Oberon Rework could be as simple as Doubling his health and armor to hey him better as a health tank. That's all he needs.
More would be nice too

[slow tiger]

He’s good if you know how to play him and mod him

[lean garden]

my hot take is that his field radius needs to be wider than his slam radius

[tribal fossil]

GOt it

[rapid rapids]

guys idk if yall noticed this or not but what is that thunder thats behind the dojo and on the top right of the origin system? it also seems like the origin system is surrounded by some kinda cloud but idk

[sage moat]

He has really cool synergistic abilities for health tanking but not the stats to back it up, and his abilities cost a lot of energy so you're always missing either survivability or energy econ

[quartz bison]

where?

[sage moat]

the. the void?

oh i see what you mean

that's actually... neat. i never noticed that

[worldly knot]

Lorewise though, I've spotted Mag, Ember, Rhino, Nyx, Volt, Loki, and now Excalibur.

[tribal fossil]

The other side of the map, I think
It's a standard bacvkground effect that can happen

[lean garden]

ding ding ding

[worldly knot]

In the last video, after Volt before Loki I think the corpse on the left is another Grineer?

[quartz bison]

can u ss? im not understanding what he mean

[worldly knot]

Why is it just Grineer? Not even the white ones from the Neural Sentry, but what look to be contemporary Grineer.

[tribal fossil]

Just a stormy day in the system

[quartz bison]

i'mmore worried about the blue clouds at top tight tbh

[worldly knot]

Has anyone been able to spot a Trinity Prime? That's the only one left

[tribal fossil]

Pretty sure they've always been there...but I'd have to go find other pictures of the Origin system to be sure

[rapid rapids]

alr

[lean garden]

grineer soldiers were used in the old war

[worldly knot]

Yes, but these ones aren't the clean white and gold is what I'm trying to get at, really.

[lean garden]

oh but it is!, its very similar to the one from the awakening cutscene

[worldly knot]

Like, contemporary Grineer have the camo patterned armour and junk.

[worldly knot]

Idk, the one we see in video 2 looks more like the contemporary ones and not the ones in the neural sentry (i.e void missions) that are a bit sleeker and what I would assume to be closer to Orokin Era

But maybe I'm also just too invested in the "This is a hint at the Orokin Era" theory

[lean garden]

Looks like these yes?

[worldly knot]

O I totally misremembered the snippets to this part of the trailer

[worldly knot]

Yeah this guy is dead in the dust with the rest of us

[crimson bobcat]

what you think about brozime one (i know he makes bad builds but he was only one who made one)

[worldly knot]

For Comparison

[sage moat]

brozime makes mad builds? i haven't tried any of his but i didn't think they were too bad looking at least. but modding isn't as hard as people say anyway

[sage moat]

i watched it last night and this morning actually and... he's insane.

[pine orchid]

were you looking for ones like this?

[lean garden]

nah we needed one with a face plate on

[sage moat]

a few of these are alright like "parvos relevant" but i just can not see a world with aliens or raids

[tribal fossil]

The amount of creators coming from Destiny (which I have 2000 hours in) to Warframe (which I have almost 1000 hours in) pleases me greatly...especially when I get to watch them react to Chains of Harrow...

[pine orchid]

I was focused on showing the breast plate, because the grineer in the trailer looks like they have yellowy armour

[lean garden]

got one right here

is cool good effort

[pine orchid]

yeah, I didnt notice your one was also really yellow from the lighting

[lean garden]

peepee greeneer

[pine orchid]

but then, what we're seeing in the trailer could be related to the orokin era things regardless of whether it's actually Tau or not

we have the Primed original 8 warframes (-Trinity Prime), and what looks to be Orokin Era Grineer
maybe we're about to learn more about what happened in the Old War

[sage moat]

the song is what clues me to tau

but expansion on the old war is also likely

[lean garden]

could be, last we saw dead primes was during the Orokin era in a flashback, but the song and the pledge is very tau

[glacial bough]

It's been Tau coded from the start

[fierce locust]

im 57% sure the primes in the teasers aren't dead. loki was driving the railjack, said "watch this" and then the crashed. this is the aftermath of them literally eating dirt. that is why excalibur at the end decided to finally stand up and whoop loki's ass.

[pine orchid]

yeah, it's similar of the Zariman Ten Zero pledge (but expanded?)
which does evoke the idea of the Zariman void jumping into Tau and failing
but maybe alternatively, it's meant to be about the jump or the void itself? or maybe the pledge is supposed to be about the Tenno during Old War
The Void is also blue and spooky and dusty after all

[lean garden]

its skipping past in this we are one

imo it sounds like something that the sentients would ahve

[pine orchid]

wondering and hoping there's another teaser trailer tomorrow or something for more theory fuel

but man I'm so hopping on for tennocon idc if I have to stay up

my pet crazy theory though right: Orokin Era Tau

[lean garden]

like some time shenanigans?

[pine orchid]

yeah, I mean we already jumped to 1999 from however many bajillion years in the future so why not? XD

[lean garden]

aint winning no war for the orokin hell nah

[pine orchid]

nah, but... what if it wasn't our choice to get kicked out in orokin era? what if we were spat out there? what if albrecht is going to that time to do some shenanigans?

but I also like the idea of us getting to Tau through Pazuul doing things

was also nursing the idea that maybe Wally would jiggle the zariman loose from the void hole and that becomes our tunnel to Tau

[glacial bough]

That's unlikely given moving the ship destroys the system

[pine orchid]

yeaah, probably would mess up origin system too badly

[restive river]

~11k years from 1999

10k from what Albrecht said and an additional 1k for our big nap
At least

[pine orchid]

damn that's a lot- 😭

[restive river]

Yup!

[pine orchid]

wasn't our big nap only 100 years? or was that just drifter's death cycle I forgor

[restive river]

We slept for about a thousand years

And Drifter’s whole cycle was likely longer than the nap the operator and other tenno took

[proper barn]

That's what Variza says anyway

[pine orchid]

yeah I might be remembering 100 from the drifter's dying over and over thing, but still that's a long jump

[restive river]

Drifter’s whole loop was def longer lol

We don’t know when the old war started or how long it was but Drifter was likely already in the death loop during it
Since
They grow up and want to leave eventually

[pine orchid]

I want to know about like the time we were asleep and the timeline of it
but all I can think of rn is... Drifter looks like they could be like a decade older than Operator, and if they were in Duviri for a total of maybe about 1000 years between jump and present time, does the Void have a 1:100 time advancement compared to the Material World/Origin system 🤔

by time advancement I mean the physical, so when you're in the void your body age only advances by 1 year when 100 years have passed

[viscid aspen]

IIRC Drifter survived however many years to become an adult in the Zariman before Duviri materialized

[pine orchid]

hm I'll double check if that's maybe in the New War transcripts somewhere
I thought drifter created Duviri when they were about operator aged because there was like that one flashback scene from... the Duviri Paradox quest(?) where it's what looks like our operator kneeling, doing the holds head thing in front of an open book of The Duviri Paradox storybook, with Saturn (iirc, I remmeber ringed planet) outside the window

[dawn shoal]

i've been wondering if there's an unknown 3rd variant of our operator left over, on that wasn't rescued from the zariman nor trapped there but that made it to Tau somehow. Or if there weren't somehow other Tenno from the Zariman that made it to Tau, or if the Zariman didn't end up making it to the Tau system after the failed jump after all and something else happened to send it back that neither the Tenno or the Holdfasts are able to remember, and thus leave some of the Tenno behind? The second one would make Pazuul's Archon Hunt lines about calling the "Zariman flame" holy interesting, and maybe even connect to how he calls the "Lords of Tau" higher than both his own people, the Sentients, and the people of the Origin System.

[pine orchid]

this is all I got about the Drifter being in the Zariman from New War transcripts

[dawn shoal]

this is what I've thought, especially since I've been assuming that the hallway and door that you go through to get to Duviri in the Dormizone was originally the door to the Tenno's childhood room.

Dominus Thrax is also described at some point as having been Drifter's best friend for years until the Drifter grew up

[pine orchid]

are you suggesting that maybe we'll get a third Tenno form? Operator, Drifter, and Tau?
it's not impossible given the theory of eternalism

[dawn shoal]

like the Drifter created Duviri as a child, partly as a coping mechanism for trauma

[dawn shoal]

yep! i think that's very possible

[lean garden]

But the issue then is why is there a third variant suddenly in our timeline again

1 was already a miracle at best but another?

[dawn shoal]

either that or there are Tenno already there from our own timeline, that are either ruling or helping the Sentients to rule Tau, and at least some of the Sentients (like Erra and Pazuul with Narmer right now) consider them to be sacred and above everyone else. Which could tie into the holy treaty thing? maybe?

[dawn shoal]

yeah that's the main issue with that theory for sure

[lean garden]

Tenno already there from our own timeline
The only way that would work is if they went there during the old war

[dawn shoal]

I have no idea why there's be yet Another One lol

[humble sierra]

Personally, I do want an Evil Tenno, but I don't want it being a variant of us

[pine orchid]

theoretically there's an infinite number of ourselves in multiverses, we saw a fragment of that in one of the void eternalism shenanigans but it's also a lot of crossovers, how many operator forms are there gonna be? an arsenal but for our tenno throughout the years

like we get teenager tenno or smth 😭

[dawn shoal]

From what we know now? Yes. But there's still plenty of space to speculate that so many things could have happened while the Zariman was lost in the Void and because it was lost in the Void of all places tbh I think anything could have happened, so until we know exactly who is who in the Tau system for sure anything could be possible.

[dawn shoal]

yeah that and it's also strongly implied that when we shook Wally's hand all of the other versions died and didn't make it out, so there's that dilemma too actually.

[stiff fable]

No, that wasn't it. The Zariman flashback scenes are a timeloop

You're not seeing alternate universe yous die

[dawn shoal]

unless there's another universe with a Conceptual Embodiment of us, in the same way as the Holdfasts, that made it to Tau

[stiff fable]

You're seeing the timeloop breaking

[humble sierra]

It could be alternate universe us-es.

We were never explicitly told

[stiff fable]

We were, kinda

The Sanctum computer explains what was going on there

[humble sierra]

All we're told is that it was a time loop, not that the deaths were a result of the time loop breaking.

[stiff fable]

I don't think it was deaths at all

[dawn shoal]

I'm not gonna lie that's a really weird way to portay a time loop breaking, but even if it is portraying that instead of alternate versions of us it's still showing a lot of versions of us die.
Also, I don't think Wally would taunt us with that line in Isleweaver about "only two of you? Pity about all the others!" if there were more than 2 alternate versions of us and something didn't happen to the rest.

[stiff fable]

Because if it was a timeloop breaking there wouldn't be any deaths

[dawn shoal]

He wouldn't have any reason to say "Pity about all the others" if they weren't dead

[humble sierra]

It looked super painful regardless, and there wasn't really anything directly causing us pain in the time loop.

[stiff fable]

Oh, there was

We only see the parts before things get exciting

But we know that our parents DID try to kill us

[restive river]

All of the parents tried to

[dawn shoal]

I would think our Operator's parents trying to kill them would be much more of a physical threat than what we see of the multiple Operators clutching their heads like they have a migraine that's trying to send them directly to Tartarus

[stiff fable]

Yes but ours specifically

[restive river]

“Hey you know what would be a fun experiment?” -Wally on making the Zariman parents insane, probably

[dawn shoal]

yeah checks out

[pine orchid]

smth I noticed recently, Wally seems to have a fascination with parent-child relationships
it uses Albrecht's memory of his father mother*, calling him Little Bengel
it uses our Tenno's memory of our father, calling us kiddo
is calls us MARA LOHK, possibly meaning Void Child?
WallNeci says "I can be your father, your lover, ...."
it seems to kinda position itself in a fatherly parental* position with us being a child?
it's more links to the religion parallel, I grew up Catholic so like Father being the religious leader or even big G himself, and Child/Children being the mortals/flock do kinda remind me of that religious aspect
though idk if it has any more meaning to it, so do with that as you will ig 🤷

[sage moat]

yes so i don't think this speaks to wally as a character, i think it speaks to warframe as a story

warframe is full of childhood trauma. that's one of its big themes. how do people react to childhood trauma? what are appropriate ways to cope?

naturally it also explores parent-child dynamics over and over again

natah erra and hunhow
the operator and their father
what you've pointed out with wally
Albrecht and Euleria
stalker and sirius/orion

[proper barn]

He also even says like "2 of the same person brought up in different environments" meaning drifter and operator seemingly he did it just cuz.

To see what would happen.

[woven coyote]

Also wasnt albrechts nickname from his mother and not father?

[pine orchid]

possibly, I haven't read/listened to the lorewall recently just that someone here said it was from his dad

[dawn shoal]

i'm pretty sure it was from his mom tbh

[sage moat]

i mean not entirely relevant to the conversation at hand but good to get our facts straight

[pine orchid]

I think we might even be able to expand it to family dynamics in general too, with the Entrati family in Deimos and how they were all at odds with each other at first so it's husband-wife, siblings
there's Solaris which I think is more of community as family
the... cetus standing one with loss of a partner and moving on

I swear there was one more example- OH LOID DUH

Loid and Albrecht in sanctum anatomica, our local toxic old man yaoi

could be exploring love and empathy in general too, you know what they say: The opposite of Love isn't Hate, but Apathy (Indifference) :p

[sage moat]

yes! as well as identity

what makes warframe so good as a story is that its a giant space epic so it has the runtime to explore a bunch of different themes

identity, family, relationships, trauma, love, indifference

[pine orchid]

indeedy and I love all of it, I love stories and I love the characters in them, I love lore

and I love the voidtongue conlang

[lean garden]

hello hello sigmund freud

and Im not even talking oedipus or electra

[abstract ridge]

guys the old war isnt even over yet for hunhow, hes still waiting for the sequence to be complete. he let himself be destroyed cus natah was supposed to win them the war from within

"We crossed the gap, wombs in ruin, to bring an end to this. We severed worlds, let them destroy me. Why is the sequence not complete?"

[lean garden]

its very much over for him, this is like the very beginning when we're introduced to him

[abstract ridge]

yeah but the sequence can still be completed maybe thats gonna happen

[lean garden]

the sequence is to kill us and wake the sentients, one of which lotus will not do, and the other already happened

[abstract ridge]

basically hes still ready for war and the orokin have fallen so itll be mad easy for him

[abstract ridge]

oh

alr

[tall echo]

He's not

Hunhow is stuck and basically just a grumpy grandpa now

[abstract ridge]

hes gotta play a part in the quest somehow

grandpa wants to go home

[pine orchid]

grandpa recently lost his only company too, he's extra grumpy

[proper barn]

To add to what others talked about. Hunhow also says "hey I am only clinging to life now cuz I wanna help my daughter in any way necessary."

[sly ibex]

That was when we first were introduced to him. A lot has happened since then, and he seems to have finally let go of his grudge against the Tenno. The New War gave him a reason to move on from it, since we saw him encouraging the Stalker to do so in Jade Shadows.

[proper barn]

by the time of jade shadows he's like

"just ask the Void kids for help dawg they will help you their nice people."

The thing i want from the new update is more like drifter and operator talking at the same time like we see in Lotus eaters.

[sly ibex]

That's only possible in certain areas, like the Labs that are basically engulfed in the Void, and the Zariman (also in the Void).

[jaunty oasis]

What’s weird is it doesn’t seem possible on Lua

And you’d think it would be what with Lua being what it is

Yuvarium and whatnot

I say this because we see operator and drifter swap places after the new war but not exist together at once when speaking with Natah/Lotus/Margulus

[humble sierra]

Was that Lua?

I thought it was just the Lotus' new chambers after Ballas infiltrated her old one

[strange plinth]

looks like the same place as in apostasy prologue, i think?

same pattern on the thing behind her, at least

[stiff fable]

yeah, it's the chamber of the lotus

[humble sierra]

Makes sense. I guess she doesn't really have to worry about it being compromised by Ballas any time soon.

[nova trout]

So y'all know My Name Is Byf right?
The Destiny lore YouTuber?
Is there a YouTuber that goes in depth for the Warframe lore like he does?

[normal mountain]

Don't know him, but most youtubers who try to do warframe lore don't do so well
At least, I haven't heard of any who are widely regarded as reliable

The Orokin Archives site is the usual recommendation for in depth lore

[crimson bobcat]

hmm

[stiff fable]

sadly, no

The techrot wasn't created in Hollvania, they only tested it there

so the nuke going off doesn't prevent any of that

(besides, it's stopping the nuke that changes the timeline)

[dense herald]

why is it call Origin System instead of the milky way galaxy/sol system? is it just a artistic decision or does it have a deeper lore meaning?

[strange plinth]

separate things
really its Origin system vs Sol system
as for why origin, i have no idea hopefully someone else does

[narrow pendant]

doesnt eternalism prevent changing the past changing the future anyway or

[narrow pendant]

might be artistic choice like how even back in 1999 people refer to sun and moon as sol and lua

i thought it was some future linguistic change but no its just a warframe universe thing

[strange plinth]

palimpset of spacetime duviri tablet
events can be rewritten, traces of the original will remain

[narrow pendant]

fair

i havnt explored duviri much yet

[pine orchid]

HOnestly I just figured it's because it's the system where everything originated. Like, the Orokin, the warframes, the Tenno, all of them came from this system and it's like calling it your home world, or home base or what have you

[pine orchid]

which eleanor convo is this? I swear I remember getting/seeing smth like this, what's the next set of messages?

[proven ridge]

origin because it's the first system the orokin have ever discovered

maybe

[narrow pendant]

cant really say discover when you originate from it

[proven ridge]

they were born on earth

but they didn't discover all the system after tech development so...

before*

[narrow pendant]

we knew of the planets of the solar system already centuries before 1999

[proven ridge]

observing planets is slightly different than putting ships and cities around them

[narrow pendant]

ah

earth is part of the system, they originated from earth and this system so after learning of tau might aswell name it that ig

[proven ridge]

ye

I don't think the explanation behind that name is more complicated than that

[sage moat]

its called the origin system instead of the sol system because the orokin were pretentious

i could speculate that they planned on making some multi-solar empire with the origin system as the major seat of power but that's far too speculatory

given what we know, its just called the origin system because they're pretentious

[silk atlas]

Why wouldn't you call it the start anyway, especially if youve known there's no other life anywhere else

[narrow pendant]

no aliens we know of except for the funny void wall

[proper barn]

Also not a alien.

[fluid panther]

So, after Umbra, the Hex mission and the possible playable section with Excalibur Prime, do we agree that Excalibur is the canon choice?

[restive river]

Any frame is the canon choice

Excal just is and has been the poster boy

Heck if you want canonically made for us then that’d be Qorvex

[fluid panther]

As in the first one at the beginning of the game

[restive river]

Excal
Mag
Volt

[strange plinth]

eh. there's not really a narrative difference between the three
excal just gets poster boy privileges

[silk atlas]

Umbra specifically is a special boy even disregarding the starters

[jagged sequoia]

I recently got the email from Flare at the end of the KIM conversation tree with them, and that made me realize that Kaya could actually put years to the events that occur throughout the historical timeline of the game. So while I don't think they ever would or should make that information part of the canon, theoretically we could learn what years all the various events in the story take place

personally I have the (non-serious) theory that it's been like, 50 years, but some wild stuff happened during that time 😛

[strange plinth]

eleanor can also see the stars have shifted between 1999 and drifter's first time looking at them
we have a few ways to get approximations at least

[dawn shoal]

I think it's just called the Origin System because it's the system humanity originated in/is from, as opposed to the Tau system, which obviously isn't.
I want to say they called it that on the star chart because they at least started out with the intention to add other systems (at least Tau) onto the star chart in the future, since it is called the Star Chart and not the Solar System Chart or anything like that, because that seems at least plausible.

[dawn shoal]

lore wise yeah this is what I imagine too, even if we can't confirm at this point what the specific intention of the Orokin was

[sly pagoda]

I think it was the 1999 trailer that hinted its possibly tens of thousands of years into the future from 1999.

[woven coyote]

Another probable element of them not using sol system or solar system is that whole thing about erasing past history

[sly pagoda]

Sol and Lua are part of some religion or similar in ‘99 and the Orokin erased / banned all religions so that they could be seen as gods.

[strange plinth]

the words can remain, just stripped of meaning
Sol System would give importance to Sol, so it was changed
would be my reading of that

[sly pagoda]

And have we ever heard anyone call the moon Lua? In the future err current era. Frack time travel gets things confusing

[woven coyote]

Aladv

Pretty sure he talks about it when we find lua in the void

[sly pagoda]

Interesting is was it Alad in Second Dream calls it “The Moon”.

[normal mountain]

Teshin, if you name the rabbit Lua
Also Jade in the memory feathers

[sly pagoda]

But i guess the meaning could still be long forgotten or destroyed

And the fancy gold and white structures embedded into it to remind the “little people” who holds the power.

[sly pagoda]

I will say it is a good thing they never got to expand. I cannot imagine what they would do if they encountered another species. Other than it would not be good.

[dawn shoal]

Human supremacists, full of hubris and willing to exploit anything or anyone that they see or encounter for themselves and their own benefit, simply because they are so full of themselves that they think they are gods that know best? Yeah I agree that would be very bad. Though I still don't think we can rule out, at least until if Tennocon or something that happens reveals something against it, that the Lords of Tau absolutely are the higher level sentients who stayed in the Tau system, some sort of human, or maybe a Void-related being. Because otherwise we can't actually rule out they aren't aliens of some kind themselves 🤔 (though I admit that this is the most unlikely possibility at this point, if there are aliens involved then they will likely come later post-Tau's introduction at the very least).

[dawn shoal]

There's someone named CorgtheMIghty on Youtube who has some good lore summaries of things like the Warframes (he has a big two-part video summarizing all of the frames' individual lore that we are sure of so far), and some other lore topics. They haven't uploaded in several months though so I'm not sure if the channel is still active or if there will be more at any point soon. They do seem fairly good though imo.

[modern steppe]

There’s also bagus

https://youtu.be/5ekJpbdRz4Y?si=UJzDuMbXofqWXhQ8

[brittle siren]

https://youtu.be/ffLhCPIcOj4?si=EWJ4pv5KmIkBc2ki

[modern steppe]

Interesting

[proper barn]

@brittle siren this made me realize 2 things.

1. the "Gold shall not break out tie" is really werid as a lyric.

2. there's a flag flowing in the wind in the last trailer.

[obtuse vine]

StallorD

[tall echo]

No

Big name loretubers almost always end up being unreliable

[thick cedar]

Are archon heads in original form of the fallen sentients they belonged to?
Like some fallen Snake sentient and similarly for Wolf and Owl?

Or did the fallen sentient parts were redesigned into an animal head?

[silk atlas]

We dunno

[thick cedar]

In archon hunts Lotus speaks about them right?
Like "those fangs were never meant to bite"

Yeah wiki says they're originally Sentient Beasts modeled after wildlife of Earth.

Their heads were placed on warframe bodies when Erra revived them.

Most likely we may see full animal versions of these Sentient Beasts without any archon shard (since shards were used to fuse them with warframes).

[proper barn]

Yes. The Animal Lord's (them before they where archons.) Where all based on extinct animals.

[proper barn]

No we do what?

They say beast lords of tau and stuff.

[tall echo]

Don't trust wiki lore, although that's right for once

[thick cedar]

Usually I see wiki first and then ask any remaining questions in case of gameplay based questions.

But this time I asked the lore chat first instead of wiki.

[tall echo]

Use orokin archives for lore instead of wiki

[thick cedar]

That's newly heard for me

[feral cape]

Byf upto sacrifice

[grizzled warren]

Soo I find it interesting that the protagonist from soulframe just so happens to have a blue and gold right arm. I know ther now officially connected but fills very oriken to me especially it being the right arm

[brittle siren]

wiki still a decent source of lore since if I'm not wrong, only some people could edit the page

[tall echo]

Wiki sometimes contains pure headcanon or misunderstood information

[brittle siren]

old or new, since new one have almost accurate info as far as I know

[strange plinth]

new one is more restricted on who can edit but that doesn't mean all of the errors from the old have been caught
or that those editing are correct

[lean garden]

that reminds me about garmi's page lol

oh someone got to it before I did

[brittle siren]

really recently

[brittle siren]

yeah that why I said almost, some old page still not yet updated

[strange plinth]

wonder who lol

[tall echo]

Ah of course

[lean garden]

lol

tfw I said Ill do it and I forgot

[dire mountain]

Actually it was straight up spelled out with Isleweaver

"Only two of you. Pity about all the rest"

[dire mountain]

Okay yeah

[dawn shoal]

Yeah, and tbh I'm not arguing against it being a time loop because I checked again and that was spelled out on the Sanctum Pom-2 itself, so it does look like both things were going on (which is probably why it was shown in the initially confusing way it was), but there does seem to only be two of them now 😋

[dire mountain]

The Prime page

With "Prime related" (the criteria is using orokin technology)

But like, all warframes are created with orokin technology

Entrati weapons can be primed despite already being orokin

[lean garden]

It is at times amusing how the community run with a completely different understanding of terms in the game

like whenever people describe warframe generations as anything but pre-tenno and post-tenno

[dire mountain]

Like "prime related" and it's just literally any piece of orokin technology

No! Primes are specific things

[sly pagoda]

Priming at least from my understanding for warframes was a reward for performance.

[tall echo]

Sometimes

[sly pagoda]

I do know the trailers are basically Ballas making a sizzle reel like what Lockheed does for a new fighter jet.

at least that is the take away on the theming I get.

[stiff fable]

As often as not he's talking about the original model instead of the prime

like, the Protea Prime trailer is clearly about OG Protea

but yeah Lockheed marketing promo is the right vibe

[proper barn]

those where also mostly prime before they where a main warframe.

cuz he talks about making the prime itself a lot.

[brittle siren]

btw there is an interesting detail
when we play the void fissure and get the ability buff from it, the Murmur signa instead of glowing yellow, it glow red

[restive river]

Huh?

[brittle siren]

Usually when we get the buff, the whole body glowing gold
But the signa have red color instead. It has like the effect on the specter when we summon them in Nightmare mode

[restive river]

Oh weird, do you have a video or pic?

[brittle siren]

When I about to screenshot it, it went out since the buff is over

This also happen with Xaku 2 too

Their stolen void gun also glow red

Let me try to get that again

[restive river]

OOOOH
very interesting

My guess is how it’s rendered, similar to the xaku weapons?
But
Unsure

[brittle siren]

though tbf, Revenant armor also act the same

Prime armor

[tall echo]

Well rev p did come from the void

[brittle siren]

true

[pine orchid]

I just realized why the line "ILVE, ILVE MARA" from The Lotus Eaters and Tethra Jahrak sounds like it has religious tones to me
it's because it sounds like the line "Ave, Ave Maria"! A catholic hymn to Mother Mary 😩
should I have made the connection earlier? probably
but I do still think the score, the instrumental, a lot of it does still have similarities to church choir not just that one line especially with the angelic choir in Lotus Eaters

[wise knoll]

yall is operator more emotionally mature than the drifter?

not emotionally but lets say mentally

since he fought in an entire war while drifter just got killed again and again

[tall echo]

Nah

[wise knoll]

like the operator is basically a child soldier at this point

[modern steppe]

They fought a war, yes. But you have to remember that for the most part they were under cryosleep or unaware of themselves, at least prior to the Second Dream

Not to mention that during their sleep they likely forgot a majority of what happened after the Zariman incident

[wise knoll]

touche

[proper barn]

Drifter didn't do that till later. Also the operator was asleep for 1000 years.

So the Drifter was awake the whole time.

[proper barn]

That's not why they did that. Margulis locked those memories away to save the tenno from the pain.

That's what the second dream was.

[narrow pendant]

always has been 🥲

[swift sentinel]

People meme on Eleanor's line about the Operator, but she's not wrong.

[unique talon]

Would tau (sentients home world) be something close to Cybertron?

[tall echo]

No

They wouldn't have changed anything more than necessary

[rich stump]

Not remotely, since the sentiments were supposed to terraform it for the Orokin

[rough rose]

is prime caliban justifiable lore wise

[graceful swan]

Yes

[strange turtle]

If they couldn’t think of a way to justify a frame having a prime they’d choose a different idea before making it or just do it Revenant style

[unique talon]

How a prime version of Caliban would be justified?

[graceful swan]

Doesn’t even need a Revenant reason could legit just be Ballas saw what Erra made and decided he could do it better

[pine orchid]

do you think that could possibly apply to Protea Prime as well? gave Protea to Parvos but secretly he makes Protea But Cooler Xd

<@&778745217037238293>

[rough rose]

what if instead of prime he is something else

tauforged

[pine orchid]

ty moderator!

[pine orchid]

yknow, that'd be interesting! esp if the next arc will bring us to Tau, and we get Caliban Tauforged like how Excalibur Umbra isn't explicitly Prime but he effectively is

[lean garden]

I mean thats likely what happened there

[lean garden]

Id say an issue is that umbra is in part because excal prime is unavailable

going tha caliban tauforged route wouldnt fit with the "every frame has a prime" thing DEs got

[graceful swan]

Stalker Prime when?

[rough rose]

i wouldnt mind tauforged caliban

[pine orchid]

spiderman pointing meme
Stalker: WHO ARE YOU
Stalker Prime: YOU. IMPROVED

[swift sentinel]

What does Tauforged even mean, in this case? How would it be different from Caliban Prime?

[rough rose]

it would be caliban version of prime

[pine orchid]

Caliban being Tauforged instead of Prime could be an interesting lore/fluff thing, gameplay wise effectively primed caliban

I think it's an interesting idea :3

[rough rose]

i think it will be prime bc prime just sells better most likely

[pine orchid]

though I can also see Caliban Prime being the Sentients stealing Orokin Tech to improve their own creation

[rough rose]

tauforged would prob confuse ppl who arent in the known

but i would like it

[swift sentinel]

Prime is a out of game brand as well, I don't see then not using it.

[pine orchid]

maybe as a skin?

Caliban as forged in the Tau system Xd

[astral sparrow]

tua system drops looks cool looks epic, has 13 new syndicates to level up and each one gives a single part of 13 needed to craft caliban prime and the parts can't be traded

[rough rose]

i think it would be cinema if they annouced caliban prime

[pine orchid]

I will CRY

[rough rose]

then in the end of the trailer it says "his relics are farmable in the tau system"

[astral sparrow]

At first I would be annoyed but then I would realize I get like 36k worth of standing per day and just have them maxed by weeks end

[pine orchid]

Imagine having 36k daily standing limit 😭
-# 25k doesnt feel enough jahkfgklafs;jdfgja

[swift sentinel]

Be funny if they announce Gyre Prime after all this, and the Tau stuff isn't until later and they're saving Caliban Prime for that update.

[rough rose]

if they are going to annouce tau

[pine orchid]

ah my wife would be SO happy if they do she wants Gyre Prime SO BADLY XD

[rough rose]

there is no better opportunity to annouce caliban prime

it would be gigantic waste of the reveal

[astral sparrow]

Yaa I don't know what to do with it most of the time

[digital lark]

Are tau and orokin the same?

[astral sparrow]

No

[pine orchid]

nope! Orokin are these blue godking humans

Tau is a star system outside of the solar system that the Orokin want to colonialize-

[rough rose]

i wish our tenno could look like orokin

[pine orchid]

I think you can, can't you? I swear there's a skin colour

[rough rose]

like look like a greek satue

[swift sentinel]

Yeah, is it from maxing out one Focus tree or all of them?

[rough rose]

statue

[pine orchid]

I forgor, I think it was all of them?

I dont think you can have the fashionable elongated right arm though

but you can be blue!

[astral sparrow]

We can. If you max out s focus school you can buy a skin color pallet.

[pine orchid]

oh your operator (or is that drifter?) looks very pretty!

[astral sparrow]

Not mine took from reddit but it's to show a point

[empty iron]

Is there a video you guys recommend to recap all the events before the new story gets released? Most the ones I find are 2+ years old

[pine orchid]

oh I see! still, they look really pretty :3

[astral sparrow]

My drifter looks like a sculdra worker who is just done and want to rebel

[placid cypress]

I believe Tau Will be a startover, the girl in the awakening (first) quest lays lotus flowers infront of Excalibur mag and volt and once again the lotus flowers appear. New Quest - "Re-Awakening"
Expecting a new Sentient Lich System with Tauforged Ocucor, basmu etc weapons as well.

[modern steppe]

https://youtu.be/5ekJpbdRz4Y

[empty iron]

Thank you

[pine orchid]

oh the flowers in question! friend and I were discussing the flowers too ystd

I think the trailer flowers look very different from lotus flowers though, the lotus flowers are a lot more rounded and 'fluffy' whereas this flower looks sharper especially with the points and I'm unsure if it's just an artistic representation of a lotus or if it is actually a different flower

[placid cypress]

Wait hold on

The fact that the flowers are even there in the first place

The sentients aren't the only ones on Tau......

[swift sentinel]

Unless the Sentients left the flowers

[placid cypress]

Highly unlikely

[pine orchid]

the flowers do look metallic, and I've heard it brought up that sentients lay flowers next to a fallen warframes but I have no source to back this up
does anyone know where that's from?

[placid cypress]

Maybe

Let me check my lore index

[modern steppe]

I don’t think there’s a source on that

Either that or it’s just really vague

I’ve only heard that claim with the new teasers

No one has brought it up till now

[placid cypress]

I can't seem to find anything but it's not out of the question

[pine orchid]

hm another thing is, I'm looking at water lilies and at a glance they look a lot like lotus

but the lily's petals tend to end in points rather compared to the rounder lotus petals

[placid cypress]

Yeah, to be fair, lotus flowers probably don't exist on Tau, so our mystery survivor had to make do

[pine orchid]

or... perhaps it's alluding to a mimicry
someone or something that is like our lotus but different

[placid cypress]

From a lore perspective, have we met another tenno?

[modern steppe]

Rell technically

[pine orchid]

Rell

although we kinda meet his tortured ghost, so... idk if that counts per se

[modern steppe]

There’s other Tenno but lorewise Rell’s our only real actual interaction

[placid cypress]

Maybe we will meet another tenno who survived the jump/battle as they were using Caliban prime or something

Or the one inside excal prime

[humble sierra]

Someone threw out the idea that the next villain after Wally is an Evil Tenno, and that would go ridiculously hard

[modern steppe]

Ehh

[placid cypress]

Hunhow landing craft when

[modern steppe]

Sounds… goofy

[pine orchid]

Evil Tenno as in? A Tenno who is aligned with the Void's goals?

[stark arrow]

Nah, sounds generic

[modern steppe]

We would at least have a mention of a Tenno that’s antagonistic towards us but like

[graceful swan]

Rell
Terolee
Our entire class on the Zariman some unnamed

[modern steppe]

The entire point about the Tenno is that they’re children with empathy and shit

That’s their entire characteristic

So… an evil Tenno is wack

[pine orchid]

but also some of them were mean to our baby boy Rell QwQ

[modern steppe]

Yeah but that’s just ableism

[stark arrow]

For what reason? Because we made a deal with Wally, then that "evil Tenno" hate us?🙄

[modern steppe]

You can still have that characteristic and be ableist unfortunately

So obviously it’s not exclusive

[lean garden]

I feel like that statement was made up in response to the trailers, which uh, is par for the course for this community

[modern steppe]

But like in this context it’s very goofy

[modern steppe]

Yea I have never heard of it until the teasers released

It’s really recent

A slight mention of that would at least spark some conversation but it’s only till now that it’s being brought up

[pine orchid]

if that's the case maybe this Tenno in particular is empathetic towards Wally? like friends and I goof on the idea a lot with saying "lmao if I had a rat break into my room and steal my fingers I'd be pissed too"
but this antagonistic tenno could be someone who takes that to the extreme? I'm just saying it could be a possible justification if DE does intend to go that route

[modern steppe]

Well the issue is, if such a Tenno exist, why were they dormant until now?

Why weren’t they there for Whispers?, for 99?

[pine orchid]

yknow if there's no source to back up the claim then that's fair, maybe the flowers were something they brought themselves anyway and just fell next to them as they fell too
like a corsage they were wearing as they went off to war kinda deal

[modern steppe]

And neither did they attempt to sabotage us since… the start of the story

[lean garden]

it could be anything really, but anything claiming to be definitive as it stands is purely headcannon

[modern steppe]

^

[pine orchid]

could be all sorts of reasons, maybe they were veiled, maybe they didnt hear of wally until now (neither did we until we did chains of harrow), maybe they got stranded in tau and cant find a way back

[naive void]

If you squint doesn't this look like sentient?

[lean garden]

if someone goes "OH WHAT IF THE SENTIENTS PUT THE FLOWERS THERE" then its theorising/speculation
if someone goes "The sentients put the flowers there" then its hubris

[tall echo]

No

[pine orchid]

well... it's orokin and the sentients are orokin design so it makes sense they'd have similar design elements

[modern steppe]

Personally I don’t think any of these are exactly good justifications

[tall echo]

Sentients have a completely different color scheme from orokin and different general shapes too

[modern steppe]

But then again, it’s whatever 🤷‍♂️

[naive void]

hmm, makes sense(i did suspect sentients were orokin but good to confirm exists spoiler channel)

[modern steppe]

I just find the idea of an “evil antagonistic Tenno” childish writing

And doesn’t help that they made no appearances or reference since at least CoH

[pine orchid]

yeah, I don't necessarily know/remember all the things that happen in the game lore I thought it'd be good to double check anyway

[tall echo]

Sentients have a lot of empty space and sharp corners, as opposed to orokin who tend to have everything rounded. Even doors.

[lean garden]

youre good, at least youre checking. Just the other day we had someone claim that valkyr was experimented further on in orokin labs and provided an non-existent quote

[tall echo]

Seriously who the hek thinks circular doors look good

Hobbits get a pass

[lean garden]

hey I think theyre cool, especially on ships

[modern steppe]

Idr if the Orokin had any completely circular doors

The doors in the Orokin Towers are just arched

[lean garden]

unless youre talking those funky long cylinder doors in towers

[pine orchid]

I fkin hate orokin doors I trip and get stuck on them all the time >:(

[lean garden]

theres the lua airlock thingamabob

[tall echo]

Same

[modern steppe]

Lua… I haven’t played that tileset much so idk much

But afaik most of the doors are just arched no?

[tall echo]

I hate doors in general because they impede my grendel wrecking ball's eternal physics-based march

[pine orchid]

that's fair, I am just bringing up it's possible
I myself think it's a little... falling flat? like if the story is ramping up we should be getting closer and closer to confronting wally himself instead of another 'minion' of his essentially right? and in a way WallNeci is already really close to us confronting big wallman himself as he's possessing her

[modern steppe]

There’s also the fact that there’s fundamentally no build up for a supposed “evil Tenno” or a Tenno who’s aligned with Wally

[tall echo]

Yea but they're also incredibly wide which looks just as bad because they're short

[modern steppe]

that statement alone is a big deal, because it means a lot of things

[pine orchid]

it's the essence of theorising! (at least in my opinion)
go stupid go crazy on those theories, as long as it is based on the actual facts we do know XD

[modern steppe]

Unless we’re assuming that such a Tenno only aligned themselves with Wally after Chains of Harrow, there’s still the issue of why weren’t they brought up at all?

[tall echo]

If you're gonna make a wide door make it either rectangular or really tall as well

[lean garden]

That homie wunt theorising LMAO, dude straight up gave a quote that was impossible to google which was central to their entire argument

[pine orchid]

yeah no that's more like fanfic at that point 😔

[tall echo]

Incredible

Literally

[modern steppe]

What quote did they supposedly source it from

I already forgot and Im willing to face the cringe again

[lean garden]

This was the quote they had

[pine orchid]

that is true, and I don't remember there being any mention of any other Tenno besides us past the old war (and besides Rell <3)
I assumed they would be around somewhere at the very least, a couple of them maybe
In the Kahl segment in New War we saw a Rhino(?) on the ground dead so that implies there were other Tenno involved right? We just never got to see them

[modern steppe]

Good christ

[strange turtle]

It’d also be really underwhelming because like. It’s just the one Tenno. They could have more developed/trained void stuff more than us like Nelly mentioned ig. But I can’t really think of anything else that wouldn’t be convoluted, silly, detract from the base idea or just not fit the setting

[lean garden]

which is still a major mystery for me, just where the hell did the rest of us go?

[tall echo]

Not dead just deactivated. Orphix fields

[modern steppe]

Yeah which is my original gut feeling with such an idea, it’s quite childish

[tall echo]

That tenno was in for a surprise when they got back

[pine orchid]

right, inert at the very least

[modern steppe]

It gives off “evil alter ego of the main character” but written poorly vibes

[tall echo]

Regular rhino, corinth prime. Clearly put a lot of time into getting that weapon

[pine orchid]

yeah... I saw it was suggested that maybe some were still stuck in the narmer veil? but I havent done the kahl line of missions so idk im sorry kahl

[tall echo]

-# I think we should be able to get a free corinth prime by going to where kahl was at last in tnw

[lean garden]

doubt, theres nothing of the sort in veilbreaker

[modern steppe]

Imo it’s likely that most of the Tenno went in hiding

[pine orchid]

in the survival missions as well, Lotus mentions "A lone Tenno operative"
as in, another Tenno? or just someone allied to the Tenno?

[modern steppe]

I doubt Ballas would’ve kept track of all the locations of the Tenno, and he was struggling with finding Drifter in the first place

Even with them supposedly having a system wide rule

[tall echo]

Yes

[modern steppe]

Doesn’t Lotus refer to the rescue targets as Tenno Operatives or just simply rescue targets

I forgot

[tall echo]

Both

[pine orchid]

you know, I dont remember Im gonna double check

[tall echo]

iirc

[pine orchid]

can you tell I avoid rescue missions if I can lmao

[modern steppe]

Yeah I think there’s a bit of distinction with Tenno operative and Tenno, but that’s extremely vague

[tall echo]

I like rescue missions but they're oddly rare in fissures

[modern steppe]

Especially if my assumption in the rescue dialogue is right

[rich delta]

Would you count Stalker presenting a Loki head as soft confirmation that something is out there using frames? Maybe another group of Tenno?

[pine orchid]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/dialogue-lotus-rescue/

[modern steppe]

I mean there’s several dialogue and references to other Tenno

Assuming we’re the only one is wack, but at the same time assumign the player count is canon is also wack

[tall echo]

We also technically see like 10 other tenno during the zariman loop in tnw

[modern steppe]

We know Operations work on a large group effort between Tenno

[pine orchid]

there's one calling the hostage "a Tenno ally" and ig it means "an ally to Tenno cause" but it could be interpreted the other way too

[modern steppe]

But it’s vague about specific numbers besides that

[graceful swan]

Why are rescue targets always so terrible at their job?

[tall echo]

The tenno with the unusually vibrant hair is canon

[tall echo]

Surviving?

Good catch bot

[graceful swan]

Not getting captured

[tall echo]

Assume they're all coincidentally quills and being captured is necessary

[pine orchid]

it's funny to read that the ones in orokin tilesets are "trapped by ancient orokin security"

[tall echo]

Heh

[pine orchid]

this is why you always bring a 10-foot pole smh

well, multiples incase you lose them or it breaks XD

[pine orchid]

I can see that being a choice by DE because they don't want to put a specific number on the playerbase esp if we're able to see and interact with all the other Tenno
but it would be nice to see other canon Tenno post Old War

man imagine we get to Tau and there's actually a whole syndicate worth of Tenno who's been stranded there this whole time

we already have the Protoframes coming with us into missions in 1999
maybe they could take another step and have canon Tenno and their chosen warframes coming with us in Tau missions

[tribal fossil]

So...we don't actually know what the Heart of Deimos is or does beyond the fact that it creates some sort of link to the Void, correct?

[lean garden]

it floods the system with Void energy like background radiation, allowing for all void-powered equipement to be powered

[tribal fossil]

Okay...and we can assume that whatever rift or portal that is created is essentially the rift, because according to Loid if the Heart stops, the "wall to the other side closes"