lore-discussion

[midnight niche]

Radiation wars is the term iirc

[silk atlas]

Techrot/Infestation survives to the present day regardless, pretty much

So like, big woop the nuke goes off.

[stiff fable]

Kinda? The radiation wars DID let the Orokin contain the Infestation eventually but it took at least 18 of them

And they still kept samples, smallpox style

[pine orchid]

at least, I've been led to believe that techrot = infested so like... it doesnt seem like the nuke reactor going off was enough to completely get rid of techrot

[stiff fable]

The techrot is the technocyte virus copying 1999 technology, yes

[pine orchid]

yeah, then they made the stuff into warframes and f'ed up deimos in the process Xd

[stiff fable]

Modern infestation is the technocyte copying Orokin technology

[midnight niche]

earth by the time of the present origin system lives in a symbiosis with an ancient technocyte strain unless that's been retconned

[stiff fable]

No that was completely separate

Deimos was two scientists trying to stop the Sentients from claiming the Heart of Deimos by unleashing a super strain of infestation

[craggy ginkgo]

Belric and rania released the infestation on Deimos

[tribal fossil]

Warframes as we know it are Orokin-era punishments
Seperate from Infested

[stiff fable]

Not punishments, no

[silk atlas]

Not always punishments, rather

[stiff fable]

The Warframes were a weapons project

[pine orchid]

but the warframes are from infested, no? a particular strain of infested, the Helminth

[stiff fable]

Ballas created a mostly tame strain of infestation

[silk atlas]

They are made from Infested, yes

[stiff fable]

One that doesn't spread

It only changes the target it's directly injected into

[pine orchid]

yeah, I was saying it more like a small domino big domino situation with the infested lmao

[midnight niche]

Yeah there are multiple strains gray, helminth, whatever that strain is on eris that can unleash freakish eldritch horrors..

[stiff fable]

Not especially, the Helminth strain CANNOT cause an infestation outbreak

It's a designer virus, if that makes sense

[pine orchid]

it's like the techrot is the ancestor of infested, helminth, etc

[midnight niche]

Also something to note, helminth can stop other infested infections but not completely erase them, such as the case with Eleanor and her infection

[pine orchid]

like an evolution tree, it diversified, darwinism etcetc

[stiff fable]

Yes but not directly

[pine orchid]

like I said, small domino big domino Xd

[stiff fable]

The Hollvania outbreak as far as we can tell isn't the main strain that evolves into the modern infestation

Because like I said, Hollvania was the testing ground

The actual ground zero for the global outbreak is elsewhere

[pine orchid]

that's a good point, do we think it stopped Eleanor's infection from advancing or just... stalled it? Because at the end of The Hex quest, she kinda loses control of herself is that a sign of her infection advancing after she succ'd the legacyte?

[midnight niche]

Probably stalled

[stiff fable]

That's because she touched the hivemind

Nyx's powers put her a bit TOO in-tune with the infestation

In addition to her more advanced infection

[pine orchid]

so the techrot and helminth maybe interact like idk two species of moss keeping in other in check? until Eleanor's interaction with the legacyte where it looked like she absorbed its power or something and it maybe upset the balance allowing the techrot the upper hand? 🤔

sidenote, obsessed with the eightclaw songs with voidtongue I cant wait to get official transcripts and translations for them Xd

[stiff fable]

Usually the Helminth would overwhelm and keep the infestation out entirely

Like, the only Warframe we know that the Infestation has had control over is Mesa, which Alad V reengineer for it

And maaaaaaybe Chroma

[pine orchid]

wasnt Nidus the infested frame?

[strange turtle]

Yes but he’s still Helminth

[pine orchid]

altho idk, I dont have these frames nor know their story yet

[stiff fable]

Nidus is, but also has never been controlled by the Infestation

[stiff fable]

It's just quest stuff, no story

[strange turtle]

The Mesa was just a random frame the Technocyte managed to get ahold of and control, as in, we fight it as an enemy

[stiff fable]

Infested Alas V manages to make a Mesa that the Infestation can control

Meanwhile the Chroma from New Strange is listed as Infested faction

And is trying to destroy the Sentient beacon in that quest

[tribal fossil]

Need to finish off my Hex standing...if I do it every day I'll be Rank 5 on Thursday

NEED the LORE

[strange plinth]

hex standing is pretty easy to get, at least

[stiff fable]

Rank 5 is mostly so you can get the new friends to show up, no? Or do they show up at 4

[violet storm]

4

[tribal fossil]

One is at 4
The rest have to wait

[stiff fable]

Huh, Flare or Kaya?

[strange plinth]

show up at 4 but you can only interact with flare, other three need 5

[tribal fossil]

^

[stiff fable]

That makes a ton of sense

[tribal fossil]

Bro just showed up with a guitar and I was very confused

[pine orchid]

honestly same, but I do recommend unlocking flare and maxing out his chemistry

because boy I have THOUGHTS on the things he said to me at the end of that

[tribal fossil]

LOL

Lettie's over here hitting on me and I don't know how to feel yet...I'm trying to romance Eleanor, dammit, I need Amelia's sweet tones in my ear

[pine orchid]

Eleanor's a good choice, my wife made the same decision
I myself decided to go with Arthur no I dont have a type for jaded kinda gruff soldier types wym

[tribal fossil]

Listen...Arthur's a close second, but I can't fix him and it makes me sad

Not that I can really fix Eleanor either...

[strange plinth]

-# flare goes by they/them just so you know

[tribal fossil]

wait really?
That's so cool

[stiff fable]

Yep! Flare's Ziggy Stardust, of course they are they.

[pine orchid]

oh oops, you right
they said things to me at the end of their arc and I have THOUGHTS*

[stiff fable]

I love non-bootstrapped time travel stories

[violet storm]

After getting to a certain point with V & M, safe to say their interactions get…interesting to say the least

[pine orchid]

at least with the hex I kinda find it really easy to grind the standing with them, my biggest obstacle was just the daily standing limit >:(

[stiff fable]

Legendary rank privileges hahaha

[strange plinth]

half the reason i grind mr,,

[tribal fossil]

I just hit 25... cries

[violet storm]

18. Pain

[pine orchid]

I'm... not even 20 I'm like 18 I only started a few months ago 😭

[tribal fossil]

You don't understand, you still have so much left you can level up 🤣

[stiff fable]

I need to order the MR30 pin lol

[pine orchid]

once you maxed out V&M though AND get all the lore fragments from eightclaw, you get an extra kim message from them and... I'm a little confused at the implication but LOOOOORE

[violet storm]

Just got Titania Prime

[tribal fossil]

oooh, good one

[pine orchid]

I have Oberon and Nekros Prime cooking in my foundry rn I gotta grind out more frames
Never enough-

[violet storm]

I have 14 primes now

[stiff fable]

I mean, Wally wanted to make friends with someone who can understand the Drifter... Five strong feelings all mixed in a cycle, and one lopped off hand...

https://tenor.com/view/george-lucas-its-like-poetry-it-rhymes-poetry-gif-19259245

[tribal fossil]

I need to read up on more of Koumei, Temple, Oraxia...basically all the latest frames
I know next to nothing about them or their relevance besides "here, have new frame"

[pine orchid]

TEMPLE!!!

[stiff fable]

Unfortunately that actually is all their lore

[pine orchid]

THATS THE THING YOU'D WANT FLARE CHEMISTRY FOR 😭

[craggy ginkgo]

most of them are just that

[stiff fable]

Except Temple that is

[violet storm]

Temple was interesting

[tribal fossil]

cool, so I'm not missing anything 🤣

[pine orchid]

I'm sobbing crying begging my wife to max out flare's chemistry otherwise I cant yap at them!!! about it!!!

[strange plinth]

koumei has a little through saya's visions dialogue
oraxia just has the one or two lines from wally/rusalka
cyte only has the email from loid lmao
temple has the most lore from flare kim convos/good end email

[pine orchid]

I noticed that some but not all frames have a leverian entry too, I kinda wish there'd be more

[strange plinth]

garuda lore,, , de please,,

[stiff fable]

The idea was to expand the lore for frames with none with that, but it ended up being more work than they realized

And was cutting into other kinds of devtime according to devstreams around when Voruna launched

Same reason Nightwave doesn't have stories anymore

[pine orchid]

oh speaking of nightwave! I kinda wished there was a way to play those early stories I missed out on too qwq

[stiff fable]

You can see the story in the Nightwave screen at least iirc

[craggy ginkgo]

can you not ? i never tried but there was a button on the nightwave screen that recaps past events and shows your rank in each

[pine orchid]

but yeah I can see that Leverian entries are a lot of work, we have frames from questlines too, but maybe at least a codex entry/fragments for the frames would be nice for lore?

[strange plinth]

so many limited time things that should've been made into quests or something
zealoid prelate just gets dropped into deimos with no explanation of what or why (shouldn't it be on eris anyway? wasn't. wasn't that the whole point of that nw?)

[stiff fable]

Iirc Deimos was still Derelict at that point

Otherwise Deimos works better for what they want

[strange plinth]

zealot derelict code, yeah
would've just been merged into deimos as part of heart of deimos releasing
so ignore that point lol

[pine orchid]

it looks like it, but afaik it's just the custscenes of nora? I heard there was a mission where you did some sleuthing and I was rlly sad I missed out-

[stiff fable]

You shouldn't be

It was awful

But anyway that actually IS still in the game I'm like 99% sure

[pine orchid]

if it is I'm not sure how to access it or what it's even called to find it

[stiff fable]

Nightwave screen like I said haha

[tribal fossil]

I think you can refight the Glassmaker, but that's it

[pine orchid]

that's using the nihil's oubliette right? I havent done it but I'm under the impression it's a boss fight rather than the sleuthing part

-# I just wanna be a funny space detective, I love sleuthing all over the place

[stiff fable]

I definitely triggered the glassmaker investigation by accident a few years back

[tribal fossil]

Yeah, and a Oiblette Key from Nora

[strange plinth]

yeah, nihil's fight is still accessible
zealoid got dropped on deimos and the wolf occasionally shows up in alerts i guess? and the wolf beacons

[tribal fossil]

Wolf of Saturn Six is just a summonable boss now

[craggy ginkgo]

yeah, he was in an alert a while back

[strange turtle]

You get an option to ask her to stop at some point, which she will accept

Same with Quincy

[tribal fossil]

But I want to catch them all...just...mainly Eleanor 😄

I'd actually feel bad turning them down xD

[craggy ginkgo]

maybe Tau will give us the Harem isekai we need

[pine orchid]

I was torn between Arthur and Quincy, ended up going with Arthur bcs Quincy seems like a chill bro to hang with

[tribal fossil]

I'm just deprived, it's fine

[pine orchid]

also watched all the Glassmaker scenes in the Nightwave screen, can confirm it did not send me sleuthing :(

[strange turtle]

Don’t worry, they’re fine with it, and if you try and keep yourself open while following through on flirts you can just get yourself locked out of actually being able to date anyway

[tribal fossil]

Noted.

[strange turtle]

You can break up and choose someone else too, as long as you don’t abuse it, and there’s a [spoiler] ||memory reset option for each loop so you can reset your convos and chemistry||

[tribal fossil]

Brb, new vid just dropped (it's not lore)

[craggy ginkgo]

was there anything interesting in the devshort ?

[tribal fossil]

Just TennoCon prep really...and the stream crashed about halfway through xD

[pine orchid]

oof, no one escapes streaming scuff ig XD

[tribal fossil]

Idk, Twitch is also just broken today

[pine orchid]

yeah it does that a lot 😔

[tribal fossil]

Video is cool statues of Operator and Drifter for the TennoCon peeps...those look sick

[mossy zodiac]

dude i wish we had a captura scene on the sun

[chrome frost]

hey there fellas. This is Viktor. Viktor from the cutscene with him beating up albrecht. Never left the room apparently. IS PRESENT DURING NECI SHAPESHIFTING INTO LOID. Is it relevant to the lore in any way?

its not like they didnt mean to put him there either. He is leaning onto a wall with his arms crossed

[strange plinth]

means he's lying about not knowing about rusalka during his broadcasts
but.. that's probably about it

n his eyes do seem to have that slight glow to them earlier in the cutscene. not sure if that's stylistic or if it has meaning in this context

[stiff fable]

the big reset would make him forget, no?

[strange plinth]

fair point, it probably would, yeah
in that case, as far as he's concerned, rusalka did just disappear

[tall echo]

I love your pfp, it is adorable

[pine orchid]

a theory, maybe he could make other people see things differently?
like how we could see wally but lotus and ordis don't, albrecht could see him but his daughter can't, that kind of thing maybe?
so as far as viktor is concerned all he sees is neci, but albrecht sees himself and loid

[tribal fossil]

Thank you very much 😁

[edgy tartan]

How did the factions come to be? I never did any of the operations involving those factions.

[graceful swan]

Grineer were made by Orokin
Corpus were made by Parvos
Narmer were made by Ballas
Murmur were made by Wally
Infestation not really clear

[strange plinth]

grineer are clones originally made by the orokin as a manual labor force, militarized during the old war and rebelled after. clonerot and degradation due to extensive cloning
parvos granum founded the corpus, who split away from the orokin and were mostly cordial with them
infestation has no known origin
sentients were made by the orokin to terraform Tau
murmur are extensions of the man in the wall

[strange turtle]

The Corpus were founded by Parvos Granum during the age of the Orokin, only becoming the powerhouse we see today after their empire’s fall

The Grineer were the Orokin’s clone labour and later soldiers in the old war. They rebelled during the fall.

Sentients were the creations of the Orokin after the failure of their other colonisation attempts, sent to Tau with the ability to adapt so they could survive dangers while constructing the Solar Rail between the two systems. As they travelled they developed further mentally and eventually realised they didn’t want the Orokin to mess up Tau too, and rebelled against them.

Like has been said, we don’t know about the Infestation, but it began very early on, at most in the 1990s of Warframe’s universe in the (known) form of the Coda and Techrot

Narmer are a cult founded by Ballas and Erra, later led by Pazuul who’s taken over Erra’s body and still populated by the people who weren’t freed and/or preferred the Narmer veil’s to the true reality around them

[edgy tartan]

I meant to say syndicates.

[strange turtle]

Ah

Just the main 6 or stuff like the Ostrons and Holdfasts too?

[strange plinth]

we have. very little on the main 6 tbh
really only the red veil, which sprung up around Rell

[stiff fable]

Well, and Meridian/Sequence

Grineer and Corpus defectors who want to do better

[strange plinth]

ig we do know about suda too
not the syndicate around her per se but the person

[stiff fable]

yeh

that's actually a very good insight

[strange plinth]

new loka we know the goals of, and their tie to the silver grove
hexis.. uhh. runs arbitration i guess

[chrome frost]

All in some way came from orokin.
Grineer? Made to be slaves for the orokin

Corpus? Created by parvos after parvos saw how Orokin exploited him and his family and had enough of their BS

Murmur? Made by wally who in turn was supposedly accidentally created by an orokin scientist Albrecht entrati

Sentients? Literally Made by the orokin to terraform Tau and create a solar rail all the way from tau to the origin system

Infestation? Unknown disease modified by the orokin into whatever it is right now. Basically orokin tried to use it against the sentients but shot themselves in the foot and created the flood.

Techrot? Again its entrati so orokin

Tenno? Zariman ten 0 failure, zariman itself was initialized by the orokin

The only faction in warframe with 0 roots in the golden lords is Scaldra but even then it's basically just proto orokin with them being lead by corrupt politicians and all

[strange plinth]

techrot is not entrati

[chrome frost]

Huh...elaborate. I base my opinion on the hex quest where wallsalka called albrecht the "father" of techrot

[silk atlas]

Techrot was already there before he went to 1999

So like, just no

[chrome frost]

:/ ok

[strange turtle]

…you didn’t realise it was propaganda?

[strange plinth]

propaganda to prevent hollvanian citizens from going to him for a "cure" instead of trusting the scaldra with whatever they're doing

[strange turtle]

They’re just using him as a scapegoat

[chrome frost]

... yeah I'm dumb -_-

But yeah either way all (except may be techrot) are connected to the orokin one way or another

[strange plinth]

yeah, infestation has no known origin and predates the orokin
but the orokin did weaponize it and "tame" a strain into the helminth

[chrome frost]

Didn't they also made the initial disease worse? Like what we see, all of the infestation that is, isn't the supposed "Original" virus but rather an orokin version of it

I don't remember where I got this opinion though, may be something about orokin doing research on it or lotus calling 1 of the infested bosses a weapon from the old war

[strange turtle]

Steel Meridian are defectors from the Grineer, fighting back against them and recruiting or rescuing even more defectors.

The Red Veil are a cult that used to centre on the cast out Tenno Rell, who permanently went into the Harrow warframe to prolong his life and hold back the Man In The Wall. They have an “any means necessary view and are quite violent.

Perrin Sequence are Corpus who prefer peace and overall prosperity, as opposed to the Corpus who profit off conflict and dislike charity.

New Loka wants to restore Earth and believes in the purity of humanity. They don’t like things like the Grineer (genetics messed with), Infestation or
technology, especially polluting ones.

The Arbiters, really like the Tenno ig, they want them to develop and grow more. Yeah we especially don’t know much about these.

Cephalon Suda was an Archimedean, and she and Syndicate are mostly just researchers and knowledge gatherers as far as I remember, though there’s probably a good bit more. (For a syndicate at least)

[chrome frost]

HUNTER, YOU DIDNT MENTION THE SANCTUARY (idk myself honestly)

[strange plinth]

yeah, lotus calls lephantis an old war weapon
not sure if they made the general strain worse or if they just utilized it against the sentients
someone else will have to pick that up

[strange turtle]

I assumed they were only asking for the 6 main syndicates, and I ain’t writing a post on like 7 more just to find out they weren’t interested

[strange plinth]

yeah, we already did that with the enemy factions lol

[chrome frost]

Oh OK, either way I wrote that because I couldn't hold back from writing a Symaris styled sentence

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-warframe-bnp-simaris-cephalon-simaris-gif-17500861

[sly pagoda]

Techrot is interesting because we know that a group in Hollvania was working with the Technocyte virus when making the Coda. But I do not know if it was invented in 1998 or if it has some other origin.

[stiff fable]

In darkSector it was a US Cold War bioweapon

[sly pagoda]

Now I will say assuming there is any alignment at all with RL Earth history, I could presume that WF's Earth had some kind of cold war in which case well in the real world we had all kinds of bonkers R&D projects during the cold war. The most insane ones never got off the drafting table thankfully. For all we know the Technocyte was a cold war black project.

Could have even been shelved by a bigger power and since lots of R&D in defense involves contractors maybe they kept the research going once the contracts were canceled. Perhaps at a division in Hollvania where it seems rules for this kind of thing are "lacking".

after all that is where the coda was being made

before this place started looking like Umbrella Corp was running the project

[strange plinth]

we do know there was some kind of cold war, as its mentioned in min + vel's chats

[lilac aspen]

You must first master your inner turmoil to find your true self, in-.

THE CONCLAVE

[tall echo]

Wf isn't dark sector

[humble sierra]

It would be sick to get Michael Rosenbaum as someone in Warframe tbh

"We end as we began"

[placid iris]

https://tenor.com/view/propaganda-garfield-not-immune-to-propaganda-gif-12276191

[peak ether]

1999 has now been confirmed to be before the radiation wars right?

I can’t remember which KIM convo it’s with but I’m pretty sure drifter mentions that after the techrot spread outside of Höllvania nukes were being used all over the world to kill it off

[strange plinth]

certainly implied, yes, if not outright confirmed
i believe the convo is with eleanor?

[peak ether]

it’s insane to me that historical information has been so well maintained in the wf universe considering drifter / operator’s timelines were thousands of years in the future

Acc wait no, the orokin destroyed anything pre orokin

so not well maintained at all

[strange plinth]

most things yeah
we know about the 18th radiation war due to that one duviri tablet
and drifter seems to know more than us in that regard, but still not a bunch of detail

[tall echo]

It's just stated that the first of the wars starts at some point after 1999

[peak ether]

What happened to the orokin archive? Didn’t it used to have a page about the wf timeline? found it

[fallen iris]

Are the frames fused to the hex members bodies?

[glacial bough]

Parts of them are

[fallen iris]

Let’s say they had to go to the bathroom

R they cooked

[glacial bough]

They're fine

[humble sierra]

Yeah they are confirmed to have "parts" in one way or another, and they're functional

[cinder locust]

<@&778745217037238293>

[sage moat]

did quinn lose someone in the past

"I lost her twice. First to her gallant suitor, then to her father's ghost. At least I can still listen to her voice" or something of the like

[glacial bough]

The popular belief is that he's talking about Mother

[proper barn]

People think he means Mother.

[sage moat]

is the implication that he wanted to be with her?

[tall echo]

Seems like it

[sage moat]

yknow thats a really cool way to keep previous characters connected

its also hilarious in universe because quinn is living his afterlife still talking about "the one that got away" meanwhile we provided relationship councelling to her

[tall echo]

She's basically the only existing character that fits the description

[strange plinth]

tbf quinn doesn't know she's alive, either

[tall echo]

He wouldn't know if she's dead either

[sage moat]

and, not for nothing

you dodged such a bullet

the most a bullet has ever been dodged, in fact

[midnight niche]

Bro sidestepped a nuclear blast tbh

[sage moat]

almost literally!

[tall echo]

It's possible that he wouldn't be dead if he got with euleria

[sage moat]

actually fair

would you rather be an infested plant orokin or a void ghost

[tall echo]

Who knows how the family would've gone if it was quinn instead of vilcor

[stiff fable]

man that is the ultimate in awful choices

[midnight niche]

Also didn't aladV un-infest himself how have the entrati's not

[stiff fable]

Alad IS actually smart

And his cure only worked once

[tall echo]

The infestation is constantly evolving, the cure was a one-off

[stiff fable]

The infestation patched itself afterwards

[tall echo]

The cure was stolen from regor's labs tho

[midnight niche]

Oh ngl that's the most corpus thing ever

[stiff fable]

Synthesized from notes from there

[midnight niche]

He truly is the most corpus to ever corpus

[tall echo]

Not by design

[stiff fable]

he used Regor's research to advance toward a cure

[strange plinth]

i thought the holdfasts were aware of the fate of the orokin
quinn at least alludes to it i think, claiming the zariman is ours

[midnight niche]

I just saw that and idk stolen designs make it even MORE corpus imo

[tall echo]

Having even one functional cure is a miracle

[sage moat]

and we wasted it on alad

[tall echo]

He says it's our home

[tall echo]

Back to this, iirc the family is only infested because kermerros let in things from outside for vilcor, the soldier, to kill

[stiff fable]

Anyway, none of the Entrati family are that kind of scientist. Vilcor's a weapon's engineer, Gormaitru is a theoretical physicist, Kaeili is a marine biologist, and Kermerros is a infestation zoologist

[sage moat]

and grandmother is a writer! :D

[tall echo]

Grandma's profession is never specified

[midnight niche]

yep

[strange plinth]

"You must understand: the Zariman is yours now. You inherited it, along with the duty to protect it." during angels
inherited could refer to the fact that the holdfasts are the only ones left or that the orokin are no longer around to claim it

[stiff fable]

Grandmother is a stone cold killer, yes :V

[sage moat]

god spending like a year studying under any one of them would probably make you smarter than einstein in that field

[tall echo]

Huh

[tall echo]

That's just the base standard of education at least for kids aboard the zariman

[stiff fable]

yeah absolutely

[sage moat]

thats rad

but also that's because the zariman had more money than croesus

[tall echo]

You're literally learning about eternalism in the memory time loop during tnw

[stiff fable]

The Orokin wanted the best servants, so they made sure that all their subjects were trained to be masters in their field

[tall echo]

But not too smart, that might inspire bad(good) ideas

[sage moat]

ah the classic fascism paradox

"our people need to be strong and smart so we're better than everyone and can rule forever but not so strong as to fight or so smart as to see our lies"

[stiff fable]

I mean, the Archemedians WERE that smart, and the Orokin evaporated any who had ideas they disliked

[stiff fable]

the Orokin sidestepped that by erasing pre-Orokin history and by using a lot of mind control

[sage moat]

i imagine most archimedeans were pretty similar to orokin

that is, selfish and greedy and horrible people.

[tall echo]

Well that's not sustainable in the long term

[stiff fable]

you would think that

[tall echo]

Margulis, yonta

[stiff fable]

And yet, through sheer scale, it did fine

[sage moat]

and when you take a person like that and tell them "we'll cut your funding if you start telling them 2+2=4" then you do as they say and kiss the boot

[stiff fable]

Most Archemedians were like, normal scientists, from what we know

that is, very human people

[sage moat]

yeah you're right actually

its probably closer to like
"I don't wanna die"

[tall echo]

Archimedeans usually only continued to serve due to fear of death

[stiff fable]

we actually don't know that, none of the Archemedians we know of seem pressured to serve on fear of death

Fear of not being good enough, yes, but not "keep going or else"

[tall echo]

Well one or two of them were sentenced to death when they stopped being useful

[sage moat]

the orokin being good enough manipulators to even manipulate super-geniuses is in character

[tall echo]

That's the same thing in the orokin empire

[proper barn]

@tall echo @sage moat well if he had kids with Euleria he might have never came back. The hold fasts exist so long cuz they didn't have kids.

[sage moat]

and also sometimes super-geniuses are REALLY easy to manipulate. in fiction at least

[proper barn]

They do know the fate.

[sage moat]

i don't remember this being stated

[stiff fable]

IRL, being smart doesn't actually mean you're immune to manipulation

[tall echo]

Orokin weren't on the zariman. He wouldn't have been on the zariman

[proper barn]

Quinn says like "heh the golden lords killed by their masters"

[proper barn]

I think he would have still gone.

Or if he still went.

[sage moat]

correct! sometimes it makes you more susceptible! because you're overconfidant!

[stiff fable]

In fact people who are academically bright are just as easy to trick or control as the average uneducated rube

Yep that's exactly it

[proper barn]

It's in the Kim messages and Ruskla Wally says it. The people that went crazy where people with children.

[tall echo]

The only way to be immune to manipulation is to doubt everything

[sage moat]

ohhhhh that's right yeah that makes sense

[feral cape]

Or is it?

[stiff fable]

until they're doubting things they know should be true because someone said so

[tall echo]

I don't even trust myself, and I've never been manipulated

[strange plinth]

oh yeah i missed this when looking the first time
greeting after rank 5: "All my days, our Orokin overlords towered over us, and I woke to find their intended saviours had cut them down like overgrown weeds."
cut down like overgrown weeds lmao

[proper barn]

Like none of the holdfasts had children

[tall echo]

Why would he? Everyone on the zariman was there by force, not voluntarily

[stiff fable]

Eh? Not true.

[tall echo]

Well most people

Remember there was a whole thing about a letter people selected for the zariman got in the aotz ARG

Point is the theoretical oro-quinn would have no reason to be on it

[edgy tartan]

How would I know about how Baro Ki'Teer was discovered if I never did Operation: Cryotic Front.

And how would anyone who hasn't done Specters of Liberty know what the Red Viel is?

[normal mountain]

Chains of Harrow covers that pretty nicely

[modern steppe]

I mean they're not really relevant to eithers lore too much

they don't hold information that's essential to understanding either

[strange plinth]

no official intro for baro, you just get an email from him whenever he arrives in a relay.
red veil is introduced in chains of harrow fairly well. otherwise you just meet them at mr 3 when it wants you to pick a syndicate to pledge to

[modern steppe]

the only real case for that is ones relating to Alad, but those are easily explained in like 2-3 sentences

[normal mountain]

More of a priority to me is the stuff about Alad's Mutalist Empire
And Shadow Debt

[strange plinth]

all of alad's shenanigans, really

[normal mountain]

Although it would be nice to get that one set of alerts where Darvo gets hunted by the Stalker

[tall echo]

Why would anyone care about that

[normal mountain]

Lore completionism, I guess

[pine orchid]

so wild idea, throwing it out there
what if the teasers is about the old war?
the teasers have the primed original frames like mag and volt, and they would be prime during the orokin era (iirc, correct me on this bcs ik not all prime lores are them as designed by orokin)
the frames being dead on the ground in a desolate setting could allude to a war? I saw someone say they saw a grineer lying there too
it's not too out there for time shenanigans to happen, we've already gone back and forth from current wf time to 1999, why not sometime between that too?
lotus flowers near the warframes, implying lotus/margulis involvement?
but hey! that's just a theory! XD

[stiff fable]

The teaser is following up on some old lore, about the Old War counterinvasion of Tau

So it's probably not time travel, but it is showing the aftermath of the Old War

[woven coyote]

Also primes arent always original

[tall echo]

Primes aren't always originals

[strange plinth]

more time travel would be cool, but that probably isn't it

[dire mountain]

(Possibly)

[woven coyote]

Jinx @tall echo

[dire mountain]

I dont think theres direct confirmation

[pine orchid]

I dont think it discounts the idea we could be thrown into that era!
and yeah ik primes arent always original, but for volt and mag and excal, they would be original orokin design wont they?

[dire mountain]

But like, blue light (tau's star was described as blue) and mag prime

[tall echo]

I sent it like 5 seconds earlier but I'm currently killing my internet by downloading eldering

[strange plinth]

eh, occam's razor n all that
seems like the most likely thing personally

[stiff fable]

no

[woven coyote]

Lol i know how that feels

[stiff fable]

The Orokin designed EVERY Warframe that isn't specifically said otherwise

Also, the first Warframe every built was an Excalibur, not an Excalibur Prime

[tall echo]

(That exception currently only includes caliban, technically)

[stiff fable]

So "base" Excal would be the original

[stiff fable]

Revenant, Xaku

etcetcetc

[tall echo]

Warden was an orokin frame, so were the parts of xaku

[pine orchid]

I was under the impression the original would be Excal prime, but then time and stuff the excal we have now is based on the prime but as like a lesser copy

[stiff fable]

But we don't have those Warframes, we have Revenant and Xaku

nope

The base Warframes are also Orokin originals

[strange plinth]

weren't designed that way, though
semantics

[stiff fable]

Primes are the luxury models

[tall echo]

Some frames earned priming, others were primed from the start

[stiff fable]

not better versions

Literally just have leather seats and gold trim

[tall echo]

Well they are objectively better stats-wise

[stiff fable]

but not in any significant way

except the speed increase on Rhino

that is actually very noticeable

[pine orchid]

right, I remember that bit of lore so I figured smth like excal prime or mag prime fall under the latter category too
while titania prime falls into the prior?

[tall echo]

7 more hp on nidus prime is a huge difference!

[stiff fable]

haha

[stiff fable]

but, no, you're kinda misunderstanding

Warframes aren't really unique, they're part of batches

There were production lines, that sort of thing

[dire mountain]

We also have those 3 randos from the ivara leverian

[tall echo]

Almost no frame is explicitly put into either category

[dire mountain]

Not primed

[stiff fable]

So some Warframe batches started out with the luxury "prime" version, while others started out with the normal version

[pine orchid]

so both excal prime and excal would exist at the same time during the orokin era, right?

[woven coyote]

The 3 rejects

[dire mountain]

I think because ivara had to earn hers or something I forgor

[tall echo]

Yes

[strange plinth]

i wonder if the ivara leverian was a standard thing
did frames have to "prove" themselves or was this just something they were solving at the same time

[stiff fable]

not just Excalibur and Excalibur Prime, but hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of Excaliburs and Excalibur Primes

[pine orchid]

it's just a theory! or headcanon, like how i hc sevagoth prime is sevvie at his prime before his corpse was worn down by the void bcs why not XD

[dire mountain]

I went to go check and no she just got to exist and be remembered is all it says

[pine orchid]

so yeah ig it isn't a conclusive evidence to support my silly lil theory, but it doesnt discount it either

[stiff fable]

The other thing is that there wasn't just one Sevagoth/Sevagoth Prime, but entire mobs of them

and they would have been different batches

[pine orchid]

cuz like, imagine the shenanigans it's drifter going back and forth between the two timelines through a void sling thing, and wally basically tripped them and caused an emergency off ramp in old war era Xd

[woven coyote]

Maybe
One thing i was considering with the trailers is some sort of aftermath of the old war with the sentients placing flowers besides the enemy corpses
Saturday will be for sure fun

[woven coyote]

Or maybe just an introductory flashback like erra cutscene before new war

[pine orchid]

(just to be clear, I'm not super serious abt this theory just think it's a fun version that could happen potentially!)

[tall echo]

No timelines, just regular time travel, and no void stuff going on for it

[pine orchid]

based on kaya's kim messages, it implied that the time travel did have a link to void though, it's how she followed us
and there was one convo with one of the hex too, saying that we could potentially bring them to the future using transference (which is void powers isnt it?) and at the time I just figured it's an in game reason to why the protoframes can run missions in current time origin system

[tall echo]

Kaya's method uses void because time is wibbly wobbly there but drifter just exploits the fact that helminth exists singularly across time

[modern steppe]

Transference isn’t exclusive to the Tenno/Drifter, anyone can do it. It’s just more streamlined for them because they’re void attuned (Silvanna attempts transference in her quest line and there’s another case I believe, though it’s escaping me)

[tall echo]

Transference is a bit weird with how it's explained but main thing is that it's not an innate void power thing, regular humans can utilize it too

[pine orchid]

I'd argue Albrecht's did too, and he was the one who brought the helminth strain through to 1999 for us to use
so in a roundabout way it does have some connection to the void I think, even if drifter themselves dont know how it works per se

[pine orchid]

wait they can??? I thought it was just the tenno + drifter (bcs we did a funny handshake flashback thing during new war)

[tall echo]

Titania quest

[strange plinth]

technically ballas uses it several times on umbra, just not a full transfer like the tenno do

[stiff fable]

The Tenno can use it naturally, but Transference is how the Orokin steal bodies

[tall echo]

No the infestation is just built different, it doesn't use void for its time shenanigans

[stiff fable]

*that we know

[tall echo]

It literally despises the void

[pine orchid]

The transference the orokin uses is using kuva no? and I do remember a lorebit somewhere that kuva also has void properties...

[stiff fable]

they use a ritual for it

And as far as we know Kuva isn't involved!

[tall echo]

?????

[lean garden]

Captain

The orokin arent using transference to steal bodies

thats a whole different thing

[pine orchid]

Albrecht's wrong then, the indifferences greatest weakness isnt love pffft love schmlove!
it's the infestation! XD

[stiff fable]

The one description we get of the ceremony talks about music, a magic book and... I forget the other bit

[lean garden]

they use Continuity

[tall echo]

Kuva.

Kuva is explicitly mentioned.

[lean garden]

Transference tech was a thing developed when the tenno were recovered from the zariman

[stiff fable]

Transference is the means by which Continuity is achieved

[modern steppe]

No

[lean garden]

Then mind explaining how Continuity was achieved before transference tech was developed?

[modern steppe]

They’re two entirely different things

Continuity is primarily achieved with the use of Kuva and also works by basically permanently inserting someones mind in another persons body

[strange turtle]

Kuva has “void-derived capacity to conduct consciousness”

[tall echo]

The infestation is afraid of the void

[modern steppe]

transference is something that apparently anyone can do, and is there to control a body telepathically, and if able to, can leave said body and leave it on its own

[stiff fable]

double checked and you're right

[tall echo]

Of course I am

[modern steppe]

Which is why Umbra (whilst having a special transference bolt and because of his unique punishment) is able to move around freely when we transfer out

…I was about to say simple mistake but is it really a simple mistake

🤷‍♂️ idk

[tall echo]

-# The ritual is described in the wolf girl frame's leverian after all, I should have it memorized

[stiff fable]

nah, that's just because he's a first-generation Warframe

[lean garden]

hes... not

[pine orchid]

ah well, uhh... ez fix, we transference/mind control the hordes of infestation!
have eleanor stage a techrot uprising against wally XD

[stiff fable]

First generation means he was made from a person

[lean garden]

thats not really how the game splits it

[stiff fable]

The game doesn't actually use the term at all

[lean garden]

there are two generations, one before the tenno, one after (See Kullervo's crimes)

[modern steppe]

The Sacrifice indicates that he was made late in the Old War, not early

[stiff fable]

It's purely players, making a distinction between people-frames and our copies

[lean garden]

You saw the new generation of your kind and the Tenno whose deviltry blent with theirs; and you began to whisper corruption into their ears, weave dark thoughts through the coils of their minds. Incepting, as is your wont, chaos and disaster. You are charged with Espionage.
And one Kullervo's guilty conscience

[stiff fable]

But Umbra was a specific person, and is moving around because he still has a human memory driving him

[pine orchid]

side note, Umbra, Stalker, and the original Jade does make me think of most frames we use as 'sleeping' and they're effectively 'sleepwalking' while we're controlling them
it's just that those three are 'awake' and can act on their own will separate to the tenno

[stiff fable]

that's technically all Warframes

The one you use in Second Dream activates to break War in half

no input whatsoever from you

[modern steppe]

Umbra and Jade have their own explanations, Stalker doesn't

so we don't know about him

[strange plinth]

hate

[stiff fable]

Stalker's human memory, again

[pine orchid]

he was destroyed in his fight against Ballas wasnt he? we scraped his remains off of the surroundings and recreated him in the foundry, but he retained his consciousness?

[stiff fable]

Except his motivator is the Orokin collapse

[modern steppe]

but we know that both are able to act on their own accord despite being calmed, which is unlike most cases with Frames

[lean garden]

As per ballas's design

[tall echo]

And a determination to spread dread and despair

[pine orchid]

wait heck I didnt remember that part, he intentionally permanently retain his consciousness?? 😭

[modern steppe]

yes

[tall echo]

One burning memory

[modern steppe]

that's the point of his madness and trauma

it's seared into him and is force to live it over and over

only until we are able to calm him that he stops being aggressive

[tall echo]

"Ballas putting umbra's greatest hits(on his son) on repeat"

[pine orchid]

Oh no dadframe nauururrrrr 😭

[stiff fable]

When Ordan Karris decided to murder the Orokin who celebrated him, he killed a few dozen successfully

And then watched their corpses laugh at him

Because if the Orokin don't want something to die, it doesn't

[pine orchid]

but anyway my point is that I used 'sleeping' and 'awake' to separate the warframes who act independently of us normally vs the ones that just kinda stop moving/collapse when we arent in them

[tall echo]

Screenshot so old that I was still using regular dark mode in it

[pine orchid]

any warframe can be awake or asleep, it's just that most of the frames we use are 'asleep' with umbra being the exception

[stiff fable]

That's a good line

[tall echo]

I save all the funniest messages I see

[stiff fable]

Still feel bad about how much that makes me laugh

[pine orchid]

ofc i dont have an explanation to why the gemini frames dont do their own thing but uh... arthur canonically yeets us out of himself like umbra did kinda XD

[tall echo]

Which are mostly my own puns because I'm just that epic

[stiff fable]

oh, they stand really still, according to Amir 😄

[strange plinth]

valid

[pine orchid]

seriously? lmao thanks DE for putting in that line XD
(I dont own any of the gemini frames but I figured they'd behave the same as their base frames)

[stiff fable]

https://wiki.warframe.com/images/DTransToOp0930Amir_en.ogg?fe532

[strange plinth]

was about to post that quote lmfao

[stiff fable]

same frame brain

[pine orchid]

sudowoodoo and trooleewoodoo lookin ahh XD

[pine orchid]

ah yes, so we just tell them "wait here" and they took it literally XD

[stiff fable]

yup

The Gemini quotes are hilarious actually

[tall echo]

Except arthur skin on umbra

[pine orchid]

oooh you can put arthur on umbra oh that's a good point!

[tall echo]

Umbrarthur is too british to be contained

Give him a dagger for lore accuracy

[stiff fable]

lmao

[pine orchid]

so the hex fall into what I'd call awake frames basically

[strange plinth]

i'm-
i'm stealing that one

[pine orchid]

britannic* (/j) Xd

[modern steppe]

what if it's canonically American

[tall echo]

Gun

[modern steppe]

fair nuff

[stiff fable]

The Hex are protoframes

Which is fancy talk for "not actually Warframes yet"

They were pushed as close as Albrecht could take them without fully transforming them

[tall echo]

Which is fancy talk for "DE that is a horrible name you should know how illiterate most players are by now"

[stiff fable]

GOD yes

augh

[strange plinth]

the proto skins already existing:
on top of the other conflicts obv

[pine orchid]

yeaaah but for the purposes of gameplay they're still "awake" and for my silly lil distinction it's like we don't know at what point they actually fall 'asleep' at all, or if it's just the newer warframes post transference that are prebuilt sleeping including the ones we recreate through foundry

[stiff fable]

It takes a while after the full Warframe-ing. Humans who turn into Warframes can last a while.

[pine orchid]

as far as I can tell with frames like titania questline, the older gen warframes are technically 'awake'

[tall echo]

I wonder if I could've ended up as a male counterpart to mirage

[stiff fable]

The Orokin had their perfect soldiers for a while, long enough to make a bunch of Warframes

before they all went insane

Violently, murderously insane

the default state for most Warframes is "unstoppable rampage"

The Tenno more or less tamed them

[tall echo]

Lore often makes no distinction between frame and tenno, but most frame stories have a 79% chance to be about operator-controlled ones

[pine orchid]

were they all made out of Dax? or at least the ones who were obedient soldiers for a while

[stiff fable]

no

[tall echo]

No

[stiff fable]

There was a huge mix even early on

They started with volunteers

[strange plinth]

"We took our greatest, volunteers or not, and polluted them with these cultured reagents."
some could've been dax, but the only confirmed one is umbra

[tall echo]

Volunteers and voluntolds

[stiff fable]

Athletes, workers, non-dax soldiers

[pine orchid]

I'm wondering what the orokin did to bring them under control if they weren't before the tenno came along, because iirc the dax are engineered to literally be unable to resist orders from their golden masters?

[stiff fable]

They didn't

They used Warframes as fire-and-forget weapons

Drop them into a city

[tall echo]

When was the last time you played the sacrifice?

[stiff fable]

Any sentients there die, but the city's population also dies

[pine orchid]

yknow, maybe that is why they rebelled against their masters in the first place 😔

[pine orchid]

uh idk couple months ago? I spedran all the msq in like a month or two

[tall echo]

The last 2 or 3 questions you asked are answered in the sacrifice

Don't speedrun the main source of lore if you care about lore

[stiff fable]

They mostly went insane due to the lack of humanity; losing tactile sensation, not needing to eat, sleep, etc. The full face and body sheathing. Loss of identity, of self.

[tall echo]

I'd argue it's the unending torture

[pine orchid]

too late for that I was playing catch up to current content, and now that I have time to breathe I'm intrigued by the lore XD

[stiff fable]

And hearing the infested hivemind beating at their mind at all times of day and night to let it in

[tall echo]

Replay the quests

[stiff fable]

Plus, no need to sleep.

Humans need sleep.

Of course, the infestation also says that it isn't responsible for Warframes losing their sense of self.

YMMV

[stark arrow]

Please, stop!

[stiff fable]

They definitely contribute

[tall echo]

Wow you are late

[stiff fable]

that's an autoblock

[tall echo]

And I thought my internet was bad

[sage moat]

huh what's the context

[strange plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-albrecht-entrati-you-are-late-whispers-in-the-walls-gif-14925983810522853958

[pine orchid]

I probably should, but I'm also grinding all sorts of other things with dailies and weeklies and the syndicates
maybe soon!

[tall echo]

I need this gif but cut before the actual line just for the funny

[modern steppe]

cruel

[strange plinth]

just albrecht walking up n standing there for a second
that'd be great

[tall echo]

Just albrecht walking up and looking judgmentally

Even better, make it freeze for the same duration instead

And then reverse it after

Approaches
Stares disapprovingly
Leaves

[strange plinth]

incredible, i need this as well

[tall echo]

The moment my pc is finally functional I will become too powerful

With the power of memes

[pine orchid]

I dont have the time to replay the missions, but I can look at mission transcripts while having lunch!
i ngl forgot that ballas spoke to us through telepathy (transference) in that sequence, and there were transference bolts that made it possible

I think I was preoccupied with the komi and looking at the funny lil animal carvings on the bedside and ordis being 'fixed' 😭

[tall echo]

Wait animal carvings

[pine orchid]

yeah! I think that was the first time I noticed them before the zariman (as in the flashback where you and a bunch of other kids were trapped in a room*) and I was like OMG DOGGO??? but I think the stuff present changes with each flashback (also the spooky black veins....)

I do now remember thinking at the time of playing the sacrifice, that whatever method the orokin used to control them wasnt effective because the key part is empathy, which the ten zero children had
I think I remember it was even explicitly mentioned at some point, that it was their capacity to see past the monsters they've become that allowed them control of the warframes

[tall echo]

The best part is that the orokin's attempts to control the frames mentioned in the same scene you're referring to included torture and eviscerating their minds. But not. Empathy. That is what's called excellent characterization

Didn't even consider peaceful methods

[pine orchid]

Im probably just missing or not connecting the dots that that was how they're controlling the frames, but i hindsight that does make sense considering that's what they do with continuity so why not do the same with the warframes? except they dont wanna go and fight themselves so they left these frame bodies broken just enough to function on their own but not so hollow they arent just inert

mostly the part I remember most about the sacrifice is the ending scene where we finally soothed Umbra's suffering, it made me cry 😢

[tall echo]

Smiles from juran is great

[pine orchid]

I love dadframe, kinda wish we do get to see him occasionally wander around our base or smth like the kavats and kubrows do

since... ordis kinda implies he does in jade shadows? it would be fun i think

[tall echo]

...I should learn to play it on guitar

Why am I only realizing this now

My guitar will become a tool to spread sorrow

[dire mountain]

That scene GETS me

With how the music swells and the speech

It just hits me where it hurts (in a good way)

[dense herald]

how good is the story in warframe?

[modern steppe]

subjective, but it’s confusing if you don’t pay attention that much

[humble sierra]

I'd say it's great and very engaging (though obviously I'm biased, but you won't find someone unbiased here). The early stuff is a bit confusing but once you get into the flow, it's phenomenal. It's important to pay attention, too.

[dense herald]

I was at act one when I stopped playing, where can I get a tldr or a written story form of act 1?

[humble sierra]

These quests?

[strange turtle]

You can find transcripts of the events of the quest on Orokin Archives site

[humble sierra]

Awakening - Thousands of years into our future, the Orokin, the upper echelon of humans, ruled. Their greatest weapons were the Tenno Warframes. The Tenno, led by the Lotus, rebelled against the Orokin due to their tyranny. Once the Orokin were dealt with, the Tenno were put into a form of stasis, for centuries. The player wakes up when a team of Grineer, led by Captain Vor, infects their Warframe with the Ascaris, something that will slowly take over their systems and allow Vor to control them.

Vor's Prize - The player does a series of missions to obtain parts to restore their Orbiter's systems and also gain information on how to disable the Ascaris, then hunt down Vor. Once he's defeated (for now, he shows up outside of quests later), they protect the rest of the system.

Saya's Vigil - The player goes to Cetus, a trading port on Earth, and works with the Ostron villagers to deal with the Grineer taking advantage of the Plains of Eidolon where the Ostron farm/harvest resources. The quest itself is about an Ostron named Saya trying to figure out what happened to her husband, Onkko. She suspects that Konzu had something to do with it, and gets your help opening a chest. The Grineer learn of this chest and assume that there's powerful weaponry there. Instead, what's inside is ||a steel flower Konzu tried giving Saya as a bethrothal gift. Essentially, Onkko is telling Saya to move on and be with Konzu||. Also, the player is introduced to the Eidolon, a massive, undead Sentient that has broken itself into pieces and stalks the plains at night.

Vox Solaris - You assist the Solaris United faction in resisting their Corpus overlords. The Solaris are in heavy debt and sell off their body parts for cybernetics, and you help them regain their rebellious nature.

Once Awake- You investigate Grineer bioweapons and discover the first signs of the Infestation.

[dense herald]

is that on the wiki or is it a seperate website?

[humble sierra]

Heart of Deimos - You are called to Deimos, a heavily infested moon of Mars. You learn that there are some surviving Orokin, the Entrati family. They're also infested, and have been for so long that they barely remember anything besides that they hate each other. The reason you're called is because the titular Heart of Deimos is unstable and at risk of being destroyed. It is a conduit that powers all Void-technology in the Origin system, which would mean that the Warframes are at risk of losing their power.

[humble sierra]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/awakening

Seperate website

[tall echo]

It's the orokin archives site

[graceful swan]

It’s the wiki for lore

Since Wiki lore is trash

[dense herald]

thanks

[humble sierra]

It's fan-run (as is the main wiki) but includes direct quotes and quest summaries, which the Wiki doesn't always do

Here's the main page for the quests, I recommend skipping the Duviri Paradox summary until reaching the New War.

https://www.orokinarchives.com/navigation-hub/quests/

[dense herald]

yeah found out the wiki I used was the bad wiki

[humble sierra]

It's possible you haven't done that yet.

[tall echo]

Both the old and the new wiki are unreliable for lore

[dense herald]

I am still on act one

so I am still very early since I only started act 2 when I left

[humble sierra]

The Fandom wiki is the bad wiki, just because it's a godawful site to use, and was abandoned when they moved to the new website below

wiki.warframe.com is the same thing but on a much less invasive website

great for gameplay purposes

but not for lore

[dense herald]

I only found out about it today

and ngl I am wondering what else I don't know about that can make my time more fun and better when I start playing again

[graceful swan]

Official did have this banger of misinfo before I changed it

[dense herald]

....read the awakening again and something came to me.....were we in suspended animation? because the warframes were covered in dirt and dust like it's been decades since they were last used and we are not immortal and human right?

[humble sierra]

You won't get a proper answer until the Second Dream or the Sacrifice.

The only thing you know right now is "Robot space ninjas".

[graceful swan]

Old War was 1k+ years ago

[dense herald]

ok

oh so we are imortals?

or have a very long lifespan as humans in the future

[graceful swan]

What's the most recent quest you did before I answer?

[dense herald]

and correct me if I'm wrong I always thought tennos were the names for earthlings just since in the future the changed the name we called ourselves?

[humble sierra]

"Tenno" is specfically the player faction: the warframes, the lotus, Ordis, and other allies

[dense herald]

I only did act one when I started and tbh can't recall most of it hence why I want to refresh my memory

[hollow siren]

We were put in stasis, that's what "The Dream" was

[humble sierra]

They haven't reached that far yet, so don't go too much into detail

[hollow siren]

ahh ok

[dense herald]

lotus the wife/mother(depending on who you ask)

[graceful swan]

Get to TSD

[hollow siren]

TSD is kinda when the stiry starts

[dense herald]

I want to know so bad but I don't want to spoil myself before I can play again

damn it

[humble sierra]

She's a commander or sometimes the community calls her "space mom", that's the type of relationship she has with the player

[graceful swan]

Just work towards The Second Dream

[dense herald]

hey if we can date now she is on the table, I was apart of the wife meme faction at the time

[humble sierra]

Definitely stay off this channel, #spoiler-chat and #tennocon-2025-chatter for the next few days. TennoCon, the event where future quests are revealed, is almost here and people will be talking about their spoiler-fueled predictions for a while.

[dense herald]

I was just about to check spoiler chat, so good call

[tall echo]

She is not

[humble sierra]

Almost everything in Warframe has a human-origin btw

Orokin: High ranking humans that modified themselves to have blue skin and long arms
Grineer: Orokin-created clones for manual labor
Corpus: Originally humans enslaved by the Orokin
Ostron: Humans on Cetus, Earth
Solaris: Humans in Fortuna, Venus (presumably all around Venus there are similar societies, though)

[dense herald]

...been meaning to ask the robot head humans we meet that was seeing the slave hymm what are they again?

corpus?

[humble sierra]

Those are Solaris

They're essentially slaves of the Corpus

[hollow siren]

Indebted servitude

[dense herald]

those are not humans pure humans(feels wrong to say pure humans) because they got freaking robot head

[tall echo]

They are humans

[dense herald]

are they engineered?

[dense herald]

so why the robot head?????

[tall echo]

Augmented

[dense herald]

they willingly do that? why tf?

[hollow siren]

If they can't pay their debts, the collectors start taking collateral

[dense herald]

oooh, damn

[tall echo]

Venus is really, really cold

[humble sierra]

They're cyborgs, their overlords take their biological parts as collateral

[dense herald]

wait which is it? punishment or suvival augments?

[hollow siren]

Need work to pay debts. Need augments for work. Need loans for augments. Loans mean more debts. So on and so forth

[tall echo]

The mechanical parts are to work better in the extreme cold

[humble sierra]

Both

[hollow siren]

both, it's a vicious cycle

one of the Debt-bonds' descriptions explain it

[tall echo]

I suggest trying to get their syndicate to rank 5

[dense herald]

wait are we only in the milky way galaxy? or do we have outta this world places too?

deimos barely counts

[humble sierra]

Right now, no

[tall echo]

Just the one solar system

[tall echo]

Deimos is a real moon, although not that infested irl

[humble sierra]

It could be a possibility in the future

[hollow siren]

A major recurring point in the lore and story is how incredibly difficult leaving just the solar system is

[humble sierra]

There's no aliens either

[dense herald]

aren't warframes and solaris kinda similar? iirc warframes didn't want to become living flesh/metal

[hollow siren]

let alone the entire galaxy

[hollow siren]

Keep playing to find out

[dense herald]

my mind is going overdrive now to recall stuff lol, I'm actually remembering what I played through to ask questions

[humble sierra]

You might've been told some later-quest-material

[hollow siren]

"I don't want to be spoiled, I'll just ask questions about every single lore point" /hj

[tall echo]

Eventually in the near or distant future there might be an update where we go to tau ceti, another solar system

Only known as tau in-game

[dense herald]

they are scumbags probably. idk why but the name feel like they are the ones who started shit

[humble sierra]

You also regularly go into the Void, which technically exists outside of time and space

[tall echo]

Nah that's the orokin

[hollow siren]

Keep playing to find out

[hollow siren]

Stop answering so they can actually find out

[humble sierra]

The Duviri Paradox quest also kinda has something outside the solar system but I won't explain further than that. Also maybe save said quest until after the act 3 New War quest

[dense herald]

well I'm waiting till month end to afford back a controller to resume playing

so I'm just reading stuff

[hollow siren]

I mean personally I much prefer KB+M for Warframe but fair

[dense herald]

controller more comfortable for me, especially now

[tall echo]

I'll stop answering when they stop asking

[strange turtle]

Tenno and humans in general aren’t exclusively from earth, and are across the system. Grineer are humans, Corpus are humans etc. Only the various robots, Infestation and 2 surprise factions later on aren’t human.

Being from Earth is really only valued by New Loka, one of the 6 “main” (not really relevant but they’re the ogs and in all the relays) syndicates, who are genetic and technological puritans

…thinking about it I realise that having to specify it seems odd out of context. There have been a few people in the past that have been insistent on not counting them for some reason or another

[pine venture]

I really hope Dominus Thrax will make subtle notes of the unlikely alliance once they go back to Duviri

[quartz vortex]

Why are we going to the tau system? Like, what’s the lore reason? And pls don’t use the Entrati quote”Tau is in sight”, bc that doesn’t explain anything. What is the motive for reaching tau?

[hollow siren]

atm we don't know why, if that's even what we're doing

could be that Pazuul has finally reached it and we're following him to try and stop him from converting the Tau Sentients to his cause, and to try and rid him from Erra

[tall echo]

Following wally bc he's following albrecht

[quartz vortex]

Also, HOW are we reaching Tau? Do we use the zariman? Railjack? Some bs portal thing? How will we power it? The sentients put a hole in the sun just for a one way trip.

[hollow siren]

We don't know

Literally all we know atm are these teaser videos

[hollow siren]

well Pazuul could be trying to rebuild the Pluto Terminus Solar Rail which leads to Tau

[quartz vortex]

I just hope that we don’t just jump into a tau update bc lore wise, we’re at least 2 story missions from even touching tau

[tall echo]

Ballas* put a hole in the sun just to destroy the origin system*

[graceful swan]

“Before you ask, no we can't move the ship. Something I wasn't sure existed has burst through the Albrecht Membrane and right now the Zariman is plugging that hole. Pop her out and we'd see Void Storms from here to Mercury. Which would be fascinating if memorably horrible.”

[quartz vortex]

One more thing, do you guys think it’ll take place as the next event in the timeline, or will it be a flashback or something?

[hollow siren]

I assume it'll be next and will be continuing Pazuul's storyline

[sly pagoda]

In theory if the rail terminus in Tau still exists we could rebuild our end and they would reconnect

[tall echo]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow siren]

yeah that's the leading theory as to what Pazuul is trying to do with all his resources and data

[quartz vortex]

Thanks, no more questions for now 👍

[sage moat]

i think the best outcome would be if we never see tau but there's a big hunhow vs pazuul story arc where we try getting hunhow through the one-way ticket to tau instead of pazuul, so narmer can't spread through another system.
However, DE's writing team may surprise me

[hollow siren]

yeah I would prefer if we never actually go to Tau, since one of the biggest things in the lore is how nigh-impossible it is for humanity to actually get to Tau

[graceful swan]

It has too much things hyping it is the problem causing players to automatically assume we are despite DE saying not anytime in foreseeable future

[sage moat]

if we aren't going to tau...
ITS KINDA THEIR FAULT FOR HYPING US UP

[tall echo]

That was like almost a year ago

[sage moat]

like these teasers say "tau" in big bright letters with a new vegas style neon sign

[graceful swan]

Doesn't say we are definitely getting it though

[hollow siren]

Albrecht's random no-context "Tau is in sight" line is still weird

[sage moat]

ok but if you were running DE, would you put out these teasers if we weren't going to tau?

or would you go "Hm maybe they'll get the wrong idea"

[graceful swan]

Even him saying that doesn't give a date

[sage moat]

oh i don't think its soon

i don't think its this year. maybe not even next year

[hollow siren]

Tau actually releases 2036

[graceful swan]

In sight could be anytime

Plus there's literally no known way to get there currently

[quartz vortex]

The long way

[graceful swan]

There is no long way

[pine orchid]

I call void shenanigans as a way for us to potentially reach tau Xd

iirc that’s what the zariman ten zero void jump was supposed to be for?

[sage moat]

not really for humans but undeniably there IS a long way

[quartz vortex]

Istg if some random portal just pops up, interstellar style, imma lose it

[graceful swan]

The long way was destroyed on our side

[sage moat]

they exist in the same universe. you could theoretically get there if you had infinite fuel and infinite time.

[hollow siren]

Well there is, that's how the Sentients first got there. They flew there in physical space

[sage moat]

the long way is just going there, no rail or void stuff

[hollow siren]

the rail is the short way the sentients built after taking the long way

[pine orchid]

clearly it’s gonna be wally chewing us up and spitting us out on the wrong end of the universe

[quartz vortex]

That’s what I’m saying. No shortcuts, just a roadtrip through physical space

[hollow siren]

yes, it failing is what led to the creation of the Sentients

atm the most likely path to Tau is Pazuul managing to repair the Pluto Terminus Solar Rail

[pine orchid]

ballas wanted to void jump but to do that he needed the entire sun of the solar system I’m not sure if we could take that way

Pazuul might be a suitable vonduit to the storyline

[graceful swan]

He didn't need the Sun he just wanted to kill everyone

[sage moat]

that is, unless pazuul gets the worm queen and parvos granum treatment

[tall echo]

No

[quartz vortex]

I knew I wasn’t tripping

[tall echo]

Wiki lore
Wiki lore

[quartz vortex]

Fair

[tall echo]

Fandom wiki too based on the way it looks

[quartz vortex]

Most wiki’s have the same answer

[tall echo]

Try orokin archives

[pine orchid]

yeah double checked as well through transcripts I swear he outright says the sun becomes his fuel

I remember because I had to repeat that section like 5 times I had a VERY unupgraded railjack 😭

[quartz vortex]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/new-war/

@pine orchid we weren’t wrong

[pine orchid]

that's why I figured we might not necessarily go using praghasa, or if we do we find an alternative power source
OR wally just opens up the void for us, he's master of the void I'm sure a trip to tau is smallbeans for the VAK SHOTARAT

[quartz vortex]

That’s kind of a cop out, but it makes sense

We still got a finger in the Zariman we can mooch off of

[pine orchid]

a little bit yeah, but it's also kind of a logical next step in that direction following eight claw since... we're already in the void in duviri

[pine orchid]

KU NOMA ELU RA KAH, MARA LOHK?
Yknow that's a good point, even if the ship itself cant be moved according to Archimedean Yonta, doesnt mean whats inside cant be taken out 🤔
so we could yoinkysploinky that fingie-

[quartz vortex]

Then again, we kind of don’t need it..? Our railjack can already voidjump, it has a finger of its own in the back. But then that would mean the railjacks have to become relevant again, and I KNOW DE doesn’t want to touch that

[hollow siren]

Railjacks cannot make a jump all the way to Tau

[pine orchid]

my wife did bring up that the one we have on the railjack seems to be a smaller copy of the one on the zariman

[hollow siren]

even the Zariman failed that

[pine orchid]

maybe in this case, size does matter?

[hollow siren]

Railjacks' purpose is to jump around the Origin System without the need for solar rails, hence the name (hijacking the rails)

[quartz vortex]

Where did our finger come from btw?

[pine orchid]

Zariman failed, but we arent sure that it was because it was unable right? it couldve been wally interfering

[hollow siren]

ours specifically? Hard to say

[quartz vortex]

Is Wally just handing out finger or sum?

[hollow siren]

Yonta refers to "The Originals" at one point when talking about Reliquaries

[pine orchid]

I believe the walls around albrechts lab mentions we made copies of the original finger?

[hollow siren]

https://youtu.be/Es8uOniZzZI?si=qy6HJinVqfvCOrKF

[quartz vortex]

So we’re growing them? Great. I can’t foresee that being a problem

[hollow siren]

this explains where the Relic comes from

[pine orchid]

I think we're like 3d printing extras XD

[hollow siren]

the exact nature/reason for multiple Reliquaries existing is still unknown

[quartz vortex]

Do you have to change them out like batteries?

Like, every 1,000 AU, you gotta change em out?

[hollow siren]

The details of their upkeep is not made clear

You're effectively asking about stuff like "what brand of steel plates in warframe have the best ecological shareholders?"

aka., how and why would we know

[pine orchid]

I thought the.... Netra? wall? had Albrecht talking about how they developed the space travel tech using the finger(s?) that was taken

[pine orchid]

it's a fun thought experiment! XD

[hollow siren]

The Relic is what led to all Void tech, yes

[quartz vortex]

I’m just going to assume that the finger itself isn’t a source of energy, it moreover a conduit of it. Like a key

[hollow siren]

Albrecht's trip was what enabled the Orokin empire to spread beyond Earth

[pine orchid]

I like that idea

[hollow siren]

That's as good a guess as any cause no one knows

[pine orchid]

actually maybe that's why Wally is so pissed, as seen in WallNeci lines where it sounds like they're desperately looking for their finger

[hollow siren]

Their lines in the Hex Finale also touch on this

[pine orchid]

like maybe because we made copies, wally cant tell which one is the real one they all kinda feel the same but not quite

[quartz vortex]

I mean, I don’t blame him. Imagine someone steals your finger and then just starts jacking your energy. I’d be mad too

[pine orchid]

right??? and they broke into your house to do it too! and all you were gonna do is say hello maybe poke em or smth XD

[pine orchid]

these ones sound like he's referring to how albrecht effectively stole his fingers and used it for their own technological advancement

[quartz vortex]

For something named the indifference, he sure cares a lot about everything

[pine orchid]

wallneci lines have more of a feeling of "WHERE IS IT I KNOW YOU HID THEM SOMEWHERE"

[quartz vortex]

Is Wally a spawn of the void, or the void itself manifested?

[pine orchid]

that one is a hard question to answer even theoretically

[silk atlas]

We have no clue. Just that he showed up when Albrecht went into the Void.

[pine orchid]

the void does have a way of manifesting things from your mind, the way it did with duviri

[quartz vortex]

The reason why I ask, is bc it either makes or breaks his current representation

[silk atlas]

What?

[pine orchid]

I think it's possible wally was created only when albrecht entered, and never existed before

kinda like... the quantum superposition thing, it is and isnt until someone checks, and that someone is albrecht

[silk atlas]

Pretty sure some of Rusulka's lines talk about him having been doing other things a while back so that I'm not sure on

[pine orchid]

I'll have to double check the full list of lines

[silk atlas]

Wiki definitely doesn't have the full list, sadly

[pine orchid]

I only remember the ones that she says more times at me with the rng, like... "I can be your father, your lover, your--" Oraxia fight starts

[quartz vortex]

Think about it. If he IS the void, he would be closer to indifference by definition. Always has been, always will be. What to do other than exist? Now if he is a spawn of the void, then that gives personification. Not a thing, a BEING. If he is a being, then it would align more to how he is being portrayed now.

Thoughts, ambitions, goals, etc

[dense herald]

Amazing path they chose

[pine orchid]

what if he's a spawn of the void in the same sense that dominus thrax is a spawn of the void?

[quartz vortex]

Isn’t Thraxx warped by the void? Not a true creation of it?

[silk atlas]

Everything in Duviri is made from the Void.

[pine orchid]

we, the drifter, created thrax out of void by using the 'mold' of that childhood storybook

[quartz vortex]

I mean like homegrown entity. Not based on anything, just made? An original piece, not an adaptation.

[pine orchid]

so because albrecht was the first to find the void, maybe his mind subconsciously shaped the void to become the thing he first encountered, he made it real and now it's kinda everyone's problem--

[silk atlas]

Everything from Duviri is made from the Void.

[pine orchid]

it's possible, that would mean the void always had an entity in it that just happen to be chilling in there until albrecht broke and entered its home?

[quartz vortex]

If that is true, then congrats, we’ve successfully rediscovered the warp from 40k

[pine orchid]

40k as in warhammer??? I gotta ask my wife abt that-

[quartz vortex]

Not the ideas or concepts of things. Just the form itself

[silk atlas]

wdym the form.

[pine orchid]

sidenote, wally being so angry about us mixing elements is kinda funny lmao ah yes magnetics is unnatural

[silk atlas]

Are we still talking about Dominus Thrax?

[pine orchid]

I think we were talking abt wally, I just used dominus thrax as a comparison

[quartz vortex]

The physicality of something. Its presence within space. Both real and void

Imitations

[silk atlas]

You've lost me

[pine orchid]

are you asking if the form we see him as, the gigantic vitruvian man in a wall segment, is something that the void/wally manifested itself as?

like... that's the form it takes, chooses, is

[quartz vortex]

Imagine a mindless toddler. Give them playdoh. The toddler knows nothing, bc it was always alive in a room with nothing. It lays dormant with no function. Show them a picture of a horse, and it will make a horse. It never came up with the idea of a horse, it just made it. An imitation

[pine orchid]

as opposed to when it's mimicking our form or Albrecht's or Loid's

[pine orchid]

that would kinda align with the possibility that albrecht was the one who gave the idea of a form or being to the void I think

[quartz vortex]

If Wally IS the void, then it would be showing true indifference. It would be more like a tsunami. Just or force of nature, or ig the antithesis of universal law. However, if he’s is a spawn of the void, ie the playdoh horse, then it would align with how he’s acting now.

A being, not a thing

[glacial bough]

Eh, yes and no

[pine orchid]

there was a convo with eleanor where she talks about touching the edge of the void I think

and she mentions feeling like being under the gaze of something who doesnt even consider her existence, like she's not even big enough to matter, true indifference

[quartz vortex]

As it stands, Galactus is closer to indifference than Wally is

[glacial bough]

He very much is not

[pine orchid]

who is galactus?

[quartz vortex]

Not Warframes definition of indifference, ACTUAL indifference

[pine orchid]

tbf the Indifference is the name that we gave him in a sense

[glacial bough]

Not really

[quartz vortex]

True indifference in Warframe would be not interacting with the player or Entrati or anything

[glacial bough]

Galactus very much cares, it's half the point of his Heralds

[pine orchid]

in voidtongue they've always just called themselves like master of void, master of desolation, that kinda thing

[quartz vortex]

Fair point

[soft crow]

It is indifferent to a lot of things
We are with Albretch some special case, especially the Tenno after the deal

[pine orchid]

I had a theory that we call them the indifference because that's what their effect on you is? they make you feel apathetic, indifferent, empty
they make you experience a void in yourself

[glacial bough]

Wally is the Indifference because he didn't care about the consequence

[pine orchid]

the way that drifter felt, because yknow 100 years of daily executions and all that

[soft crow]

Kinda feel like it scares people more than anything lol

[glacial bough]

We're all ants to burn to him

[pine orchid]

that too

it doesnt care about us the same way, literally traumatized the ten zero kids just for fun

[soft crow]

I think the Tenno is an exception to that because of the pact and our potential, most likely why it is watching us, interacting with us, but nothing more

[pine orchid]

I remember it being mentioned wally is intrigued by things that stand out, unique

hence why it's so interested in Albrecht, in Rell, in the Cavia, in us, because we're kinda special in some way or other

but it seems like the kind of intrigue that's like, an ant falling out of line and spinning in circles would catch your attention

[quartz vortex]

Btw, I KNOW Rell mad asl at us rn

[pine orchid]

or an ant crawls up to you cuts off your finger and runs away with it

[quartz vortex]

lol

[soft crow]

I will give you superpowers, get me my finger back

[quartz vortex]

That’s what they shook on

[stiff fable]

Just remember that Wally lost the finger on his own, genuinely wasn't Albrecht's fault

[quartz vortex]

Warframe solved

[stiff fable]

Wally just got greedy

[pine orchid]

I should be sleepin but it's fun theorizing

[pine orchid]

greedy to get his finger back?? 😭 I think it's quite reasonable

[sly pagoda]

Wally got greedy in that he kept pursuing Entrati through the portal back to real space.

[quartz vortex]

I mean, if I got my finger stolen and they were just handing em out like flyers, I too would be a sadistic void god or something idk

[stiff fable]

Yes that

No, the finger thing came after

[pine orchid]

yeah he did poke his finger through, it's kinda like an accident that the thing closing severed his finger
but they didnt exactly give it back or nothin, jsut ran off with it

[stiff fable]

The FIRST thing he did was try to break into physical reality after taunting Albrecht with his dead father's memory

[pine orchid]

but seeing it in wallys perspective kinda makes sense

[stiff fable]

Just keep in mind that Wally was already destroying universes

He's not sympathetic, he's mad he can't destroy this universe yet

[pine orchid]

I mean I dont think the void was doing anything until albrecht broke in did they? they werent even sure there is a void at first

[quartz vortex]

Not to be rude, but can We get a source on the destroying universes part, bc I’m genuinely intrigued

[stiff fable]

The Murmur are made from the material of dead universes

[quartz vortex]

Link?

[stiff fable]

Description for the temporal dust pickup

[quartz vortex]

Item? Anything written?

[sly pagoda]

I cannot lay keeping the finger on the Orokin being themselves. Because I am pretty sure a RL scientists would keep it too.

Or it would be boxed up and put in the same warehouse as the Ark from Indiana Jones.

[stiff fable]

That

[quartz vortex]

Ty

[pine orchid]

as far as I've been aware albrecht was the first who made any contact with the void, and I mean I sit in an empty room all my life and a hole opens I'd be peeking the other side too

[stiff fable]

In THIS timeline

But the Void doesn't follow linear time because time doesn't exist there

[pine orchid]

decayed universes imo doesnt imply the void destroyed them, it could just be natural entropy

[lean garden]

The dust of decayed universes, rich in entropy. Entrati's research postulates it as the animating agent of the nightmarish Murmur.

[stiff fable]

Wally exists in past and future simultaneously

[pine orchid]

the way argon crystals decay when brought out of the void

[sly pagoda]

Wibbly wobbly timey wimey.

[quartz vortex]

Put Wally’s finger on a skewer and make shawarma ig

[stiff fable]

The key is the phrase "animating agent"

[jaunty oasis]

He mentions things have to be “still” before he can do his thing

In isleweaver

[pine orchid]

oooh which one was that? it's a little hard to keep track of the isleweaver lines atm

[stiff fable]

One of Rusalka's lines

[jaunty oasis]

I wonder if the sentients, specifically archon shards, having anti-entropic energy means anything here with Tau allegedly coming up

[stiff fable]

But stillness means "full of entropy" aka heat death of the universe

[quartz vortex]

If it’s entropy, then that means he’s just using the materials from around him. Entropy is the natural degradation of all things. That doesn’t necessarily mean that he destroys universes

[soft crow]

Talking about isleweaver, why did it choose to keep Rusalka form? Is there any lore behind it ?

[quartz vortex]

Bc DE is tired of making Entrati idk

[stiff fable]

It's because Rusalka's life parodies the Drifter's story

[jaunty oasis]

None stated, so we can assume she’s being used on the same level as baro

[soft crow]

Are all the dialogues from Minerva, Velimir corpses talking about Rusalka or someone else ?

[stiff fable]

In which she has five emotions sending her into a depressive spiral, and one severed arm that changes her story

[pine orchid]

fairly certain it is rusalka in a way, but also paralelling the tenno/drifter?

[soft crow]

They felt confusing

[quartz vortex]

I don’t think it was a good idea to put essential lore in an ingame discord sim

[pine orchid]

it's a convo between her and drifter, I do wish the lore once we found it can be read in the codex or smth

unless it could, and im being a dum-

[stiff fable]

The pages in Isleweaver are the alternate Duviri Tales that Wally wants to write

[pine orchid]

lore as in, the dead body convos one

[soft crow]

Oh

[quartz vortex]

I just spam the first option tbh, some hex members are just insufferable

[pine orchid]

it is basically the idea that love is the opposite of indifference/apathy

[stiff fable]

Where the Drifter is confronted with stupid people who held stupid hopes that led to nothing

[pine orchid]

and the tenno are meant to have strong empathy

[stiff fable]

And thus gives up and never escapes Duviri

[pine orchid]

I interpreted it as a story of how neci fell into wally's influence tbh

[silk atlas]

There's a ton of lore in this game that's not from the main quests. If you wanna know more, gotta read up.

[stiff fable]

That's the Isleweaver codex entries

This is the story pages by the corpses

[lean garden]

Once Came A Spider is how neci falls, the dead body codexes are anotehr thing

[pine orchid]

I kinda understand, but I hope you dont do that for the round table, unless you're ok with spoilers and rather just being caught up ooc?

oh right they're story pages! I just processed them as like a transcript of neci and drifter talking over the bodies

[stiff fable]

They're the actual content of "The Triumph of Dust"

[quartz vortex]

I usually use the Warframe.wiki to read up on dialogue options. I am not logging in every to talk to them

[pine orchid]

would be nice if they were logged in the codex bcs having to go into duviri and find them in little cracks and corners was hard enough-

[pine orchid]

that's fair, my wife also didnt bother but I had to tell her about Flare's good ending mail because like wtf 😭

[stiff fable]

It's similar to how the original "Duviri Tales" story is narrated by Euleria Entrati

DE just doesn't want to be repetitive

[pine orchid]

I remember that, I read it like once though with friend squad and I just remember it being like "lmao imagine caring. imagine trying and failing. the scientist doesn't care for the love between the proton and neutron when they rip them apart for energy"

[stiff fable]

Yup

Wally's the incarnation of an internet edgelord

"Imagine caring. You tool. You absolute loser."

[pine orchid]

I do remember discussing with friends that maybe Wally manipulating Loid and Neci and exploiting their feelings of abandonment and 'emptiness' is what fuels him
which made the proton and neutron analogy quite interesting

fuels or empowers him to do things like invade sanctum anatomica

and it's why with yara jeliira, we remind Loid of the love he has for entrati and kind of filling that emptiness did we push wally out of sanctum anatomica

but hey that's just a theory! a void theory! Xd

[quartz vortex]

Pazuul is literally Erra’s fursona okay bye 👋

[pine orchid]

10/10 lore

[humble sierra]

The Lotus Eaters track is this exactly.

Starts off with the Murmur gearing up, then the Lotus sings in Void Tongue, mentioning "heart" and likely "child", drowning it out completely.

[pine orchid]

ilve, ilve mara
utri ferm'iatra
amare jeliira
utu, lohv utu!

btw the tethra jahrak has that line too!

I thogbt that was rlly interesting!
if you listen to the operatic part it like goes
sho(?) ilve, sho(?) ilve mara

not actually sure what the first word is, but that's the closes sound probably
and I have my own interpretation (for now) abt what the theme of tethra jahrak is

[humble sierra]

'sho' is likely a prefix

[pine orchid]

it is iirc, sho means more or like -er
used in "shogrikh" meaning stronger

[humble sierra]

SHOTARAT? VA-GITH-ULLAH SHOTARAT?
(The master? Has the master returned?)

[pine orchid]

the ilve part is the hard part because what could it mean? lost child? beloved child? beautiful child?

I forgot which song had this line but there was also

VA GRIKH, UKUL SHOGRIKH
Claws are strong, carapace stronger still

[humble sierra]

Fragmented

[pine orchid]

oh yeah that one!

there's also, the operatic voice in tethra jahrak is feminine
does that mean we could think of it as being sung by oraxia? or is it being sung to oraxia?

or maybe it's sung about oraxia to a third person listening idk I'm excited to find out (hopefully soon)

[humble sierra]

I'm guessing by "Her eyes" it's referring to Ruwallka

[stiff fable]

In universe it'd probably still be sung by Lusinia

[tall echo]

Ballas is probably lying there considering shortly after it is explicitly said that he just wants to destroy the system as he leaves

[pine orchid]

if it is sung by luscinia, then it's still possible it's either being sung to oraxia or about oraxia
which means the "mara" referenced in the song could be about oraxia as like the child/creation of albrecht, and it's trying to achieve the same purpose as lotus eaters but not quite there bcs you can still hear the murmurs underneath and in the lulls of the opera

either way, beautiful song

[tall echo]

Don't forget that he was a great manipulator

[tall echo]

Seems easy to figure out, just see if it has the same singer as the duviri paradox song

[pine orchid]

https://x.com/mattchalmusic/status/1939797024817177008?t=WAKtnpaT_ibNCR7G405kQw&s=19

Matthew Chalmers (@mattchalmusic)

Isleweaver soundtrack features:

Francesca Hauser doing her opera thang on "Tethra Jahrak".
Xueao Yang with an incredible violin performance on "Dust's Dominion".
Luan Phung and John Kennelly shredding on "Beneath Her Eyes".

All of these musicians will be at TennoConcert!

X · Jun 30, 2025, 9:23 PM

it does seem likely it is luscinia singing it considering the same vocals, but it isnt unheard of to have the same VA voice different characters either since Fibonacci and Viktor also share a voice actor

so I suppose it's likely for the song's lyrics to be about/to oraxia

although.... if that somehow means viktor is fibonacci as well somehow through void shenanigans I would laugh lmao

[strange turtle]

He was absolutely lying. It’s Ballas, if he actually had to destroy the system to get to Tau he’d have went on a melodramatic mini-rant about the fault not lying with him and blaming us and everyone else he could think of during the fight

That and Tau is “in sight” after a reactor meltdown explosion thing, no way it takes that much energy to manage

(That much as in the amount that Ballas would be using)

[stiff fable]

Praghasa needed to eat the sun to jump to Tau

Albrecht's method doesn't require that

Blowing up the reactor was about stopping the Murmur

Given that he has to return to the future to reach Tau, it's much more likely that Albrecht sent a slow ship to the Tau System during the Old War, and is simply going to reach said ship by crossing through Duviri

[pine orchid]

if praghasa doesnt need to eat the sun to jump, or as ballas puts it to open a void to jump to tau, what could be the reason praghasa was built to eat the sun for? 🤔

[stiff fable]

Praghasa wasn't built as a suneater originally

that was a function she gave herself later

[pine orchid]

lotus mentions that praghasa's true purpose was to devour, what's it meant to devour and for what?

[stiff fable]

The Sentients were terraforming machines

[strange turtle]

It was both

Albrecht Entrati: "Our only means of escape… our only hope to contain this horror I have created… will require a spark of energy rare in this timeline.

[stiff fable]

Praghasa would have been a Sentient refinery.

Eat raw materials, spit out useable bits.

[pine orchid]

yknow, that would make sense why natah would liken her to a carpenter, assuming she was talking abt praghasa there

[stiff fable]

Yes, precisely

The Sentients also didn't need to eat their sun to reach the Origin System, they just built their solar rail

[pine orchid]

I think that doesn't change the fact that we might not even need praghasa specifically to reach tau system

[stiff fable]

we won't at all

[pine orchid]

and either way, I love theorizing about all the ways the story could go and then finding out which one DE goes with

[stiff fable]

if anything the next batch of missions will be about stopping Narmer from doing so with Praghasa

[sly pagoda]

Kinda surprised Narmer did not rebuild Sol side Mass RelayInterstellar solar rail.

[stiff fable]

Needs the other side connected

And there's no way to tell what condition it's in

[sly pagoda]

True, non zero chance the sentients didn’t recycle it for other purposes once it no longer had a destination

[pine orchid]

what if we used time travel and went to an era when the interstellar solar rail was still active? that would be fun XD