lore-discussion

[fresh sail]

Either way, it hardly matters as initially she was meant to get close to the void demons, only to backstab them at the most opportune moment
In the beginning, she was fully on board with this plan

[stiff fable]

Yeah, and if she'd stayed that way, the Tenno would have probably had to kill her.

Like, this isn't some gotcha.

There are probably millions of Grineer who could have broken their conditioning if they'd had months to years or the right traumatic experience to break it.

But in the here and now they're mowing down a colony of marpico farmers and have to be stopped.

It is very sad.

But by any measure, legal system, philosophy or morality, it is not wrong to destroy them.

[fresh sail]

It's an inconsistency tho
Like, you do realize the Sentients have their own empire of superiority over in tau right?
I just haven't seen you be consistent which is why it bothers me
You're confidently absolutist one moment and in the next you begin to waffle

[stiff fable]

No it's very absolutist.

We can only judge them by how they are now

[fresh sail]

I.... disagree
Either "they're too evil to let them live to possibly become better" or "they had extenuating circumstances that stayed their execution" you can't have both

[stiff fable]

No, not at all.

The Orokin were an immediate threat. The Sentients are an immediate threat

[fresh sail]

And many of your justifications for one party, you're finding reasons to not apply so stringently to the next

[stiff fable]

If the Entrati family were working to reclaim the empire it's back to the old ways for them

Any surviving Orokin at the moment of collapse would have absolutely tried to reinstate the empire

....as we see from the associated fragments

[smoky solstice]

but we don't know that all of the orokin were an immediate threat. You're removing the part from this equation where they were all human.

[stiff fable]

That's why I brought up the Grineer comparison

[fresh sail]

Hmm. Well if you somehow can't see how that has historically led so many to be the next too ill to cure society I really don't know what else to say

[stiff fable]

Every Grineer we meet is potentially a Steel Meridian recruit

Is it wrong to destroy entire companies of Grineer?

[smoky solstice]

yeah and I wouldn't say that genociding all of the grineer is the plan either

only who's necessary

[stiff fable]

It's not.

[smoky solstice]

so why is it the case with the orokin

[stiff fable]

Which is all of them that are actively trying to conquer the system.

....which unfortunately is all of them that are part of the Grineer Empire.

[fresh sail]

Point of fact is: the tenno did in fact kill all the orokin. However, that acy doesn't define their worldview so much as you claim

[native kernel]

why does stalker look like excalibur?

[fresh sail]

I..... I don't know how to deal with you tbh

[smoky solstice]

in terms of being soldiers or politicians, sure, but that wasn't all of the orokin. Again, I repeat the archimedean yonta example, she may have helped the orokin but she was not either of those things.

[strange plinth]

no lore reason, just reused assets

[native kernel]

....oh

[stiff fable]

Yeah, unless she was actively throwing herself in front of some Orokin she wouldn't have been part of the target list.

[fresh sail]

I mean, beyond a shadow of a doubt the tenno will never seek to rid the origin system of the grinder. Or the Corpus, for that matter

[native kernel]

i was expecting some huge cool lore thing. but i assume he was created early in the game's lifecyle right?

[stiff fable]

That's literally just because we can't kill enough of them

[smoky solstice]

well she was, because the target list was all orokin, she just wasn't a part of it because she wasn't there. All orokin were slaughtered and from what I understand, the tenno didn't discriminate.

[humble sierra]

Yep, and Nyx also looks like Excalibur because we were going to have male and female versions of Warframes

[fresh sail]

I vehemently disagree

[stiff fable]

I've talked about this before and it's just because we don't have enough manpower to pull it off

The Tenno can't win the war, which is why we're making the Grineer and Corpus fight pointlessly forever

[native kernel]

wack

[stiff fable]

If we could wipe out either faction without the other one rolling over the system, we would

[fresh sail]

You make the tenno sound like Thanos mate

[stiff fable]

Absolutely not

[smoky solstice]

captain, explain how I said was wrong

[stiff fable]

But that's what the Tenno balance IS

[native kernel]

so who exactly is drusus?

[smoky solstice]

the tenno targeted all orokin, including people like archimedean yonta who weren't part of the leadership or soldiers protecting the leadership, how would she not have been a target if she was there?

[stiff fable]

Every time the Lotus talks about the balance, she means that pointless Corpus/Grineer war we're keeping going

[stiff fable]

Yonta wasn't an Orokin?

[strange plinth]

cephalon that's archiving stories about certain warframes

[fresh sail]

OK. I could pick another "kill every single mortal I personally and very subjectively consider evil" blatant VILLAINS across fictional media

[smoky solstice]

so she was an archimedean who wasn't an orokin?

[strange plinth]

yonta was also.. dead at the time?

[fresh sail]

There isn't exactly a shortage of those

[stiff fable]

Archimedeans weren't Orokin at all

[smoky solstice]

yeah, that's not relevant to the conversation, read what I said earlier

[smoky solstice]

ok what's orokin to you then

[stiff fable]

The Orokin were a racial caste

[smoky solstice]

yeah, that would include people not part of the leadership directly

[fresh sail]

Were about to watch captain waffle again

[stiff fable]

Like, I think your objection is based on not understanding that there was a difference between the Orokin and people who lived under the Orokin

M8 cut the personal attacks

[smoky solstice]

including yonta, who I mean we don't get direct confirmation ig, but she was definitely part of the same racial caste, and I say that because she was an ARCHIMEDEAN, a scientist on a ship piloted by the orokin to lead orokin to another solar system

[stiff fable]

Archimedeans were a different group entirely

Not Orokin

[smoky solstice]

they were definitely a priveleged class

[stiff fable]

Sure, but not Orokin

[smoky solstice]

ok what's orokin then

[stiff fable]

Literally: Orokin

[humble sierra]

The elitest of the elite

[smoky solstice]

just like whatever the leadership is? well that makes the answer easy

[humble sierra]

Like the 1%

[fresh sail]

You denied you were unevenly applying your criteria. So why is "caste system" now getting involved?

[stiff fable]

No no no, people were MADE into Orokin

[smoky solstice]

the 1% in all cases includes civillians

[stiff fable]

It was a whole thing

Like, Ordan Karris was going to be made Orokin

[fresh sail]

Yes, but the tenno also killed slaves who were yet to become orokin

[smoky solstice]

yeah and are we just assuming that yonta didn't engage in the same behavior that was afforded to the aristocrat class?

[strange plinth]

captain was always talking about the orokin caste, not any under the empire

[fresh sail]

Not to mention the entrati weren't angels either

[stiff fable]

Going by her own admission she totally did. But she wasn't Orokin.

[smoky solstice]

ok I don't understand, are you just claiming the orokin was literally just the leadership?

like a mafia family?

[fresh sail]

Or are we just gonna pigeonhole daughters casual racism towards the grineer?

[stiff fable]

No, the Orokin were a human subspecies

[smoky solstice]

because idk if there's like direct evidence for that

[stiff fable]

Just one that was created

Like, they actually did something to themselves to "become" Orokin

[smoky solstice]

so does it include civillians or not

[stiff fable]

Orokin civilians?

[smoky solstice]

yeah

[stiff fable]

Yeah they totally existed

[smoky solstice]

so ok

[stiff fable]

The Orokin as a group had to go

[smoky solstice]

we had archimedeans, which seem to be people who are orokin based off the fact that they're elevated so much by the orokin

[fresh sail]

I don't recall anyone else so vehemently arguing "the ends justify the means" for why all the orokin had to die

[smoky solstice]

but they're not orokin?

[fresh sail]

So who made the distinction between the yuvans then

[stiff fable]

They weren't Orokin though

[smoky solstice]

so what are they

[stiff fable]

Archimedeans

[fresh sail]

If it was someone else, I question why they dropped the topic so quickly

[sick nebula]

"Archimedean" and "Orokin" were separate social classes within the Orokin Empire

[stiff fable]

The Archimedeans weren't Orokin

[smoky solstice]

ok

so the people actually controlling the ship

they weren't orokin?

[stiff fable]

No Orokin left on the Zariman

[smoky solstice]

ik yonta wasn't the one controlling the ship but I'm just asking

[fresh sail]

And yet, most of the archimedeans died in the purge

[stiff fable]

So yeah by definition

The ones driving the ship weren't Orokin

[smoky solstice]

what about the children

they weren't orokin either?

[stiff fable]

Oh we definitely killed Orokin children

Like, explicitly

[smoky solstice]

I'm asking whether the children on the zariman ten-0 were orokin

not whether children were killed

[stiff fable]

Ah no. Not one Orokin was on the Zariman

[fresh sail]

Make note for the record that very few died of old age
Dax soldiers like teshin and Darzia still bodily recall the days of the empire

[stiff fable]

The entire point was for the Zariman people to do the work and then the Orokin to come later

[fresh sail]

They lived to witness its fall
So that alone eliminates one variable

[smoky solstice]

ok so the orokin are regarded enough to just let a bunch of people who weren't of their social status control the whole ship control it fully, even though it was their only hope for an entrance to another solar system?

they're legit dumb as shit

[stiff fable]

Yes

They were VERY dumb.

[fresh sail]

Arrogant
And who could deny that?

[sick nebula]

There's a line where someone talks to Captain Quinn, and says something along the lines of how he "might as well" have been Orokin for how much power he had over the lives of the people on the ship.

Which makes it very clear that he was not, in fact, Orokin, and neither was anybody else under his authority.

[fresh sail]

Frankly arrogance on its own is obnoxious, but to the point of delusion is when it gets embarrassing
And kinda piteous ngl

[stiff fable]

Funny story, Quinn was in love with Mother

He's still salty about Father

[smoky solstice]

I mean I guess I'm wrong, but ig I'd still need more details on who exactly were the Orokin, since it's starting to seem very unrealistic that the Orokin were specifically the leadership and no one else and somehow this leadership existed for so long despite the fact that no one else was in this class at all

[sick nebula]

Yup.

Quinn: "I lost her twice. First to her gallant suitor, then to her father's ghost. By now, she is surely dust with the rest of them. At least I can still listen to her voice."

NOT-SPOILER: she is not, in fact, dust.

[fresh sail]

Guess that's where I get a little twisted morally
Like. You guys didn't have to die so embarrassingly, you know

[smoky solstice]

I always assumed it was an aristocratic class

which would make a lot more sense than just some dudes who decided to control the entire solar system

like it's so easy to just take them down at that point

[sick nebula]

The Orokin are the social class that is allowed to use Kuva to body-hop.

[smoky solstice]

and I don't know how realistic it is of them to keep control for so long

[stiff fable]

So funny story

[smoky solstice]

yeah which I assumed was a whole group of people and not specifically the leadership

[fresh sail]

The orokin make it so hard not to laugh at them sometimes
I can understand how varzia gets so much joy and mirth mocking them

[stiff fable]

The Orokin are implied to have gotten their start as the rich and famous from the 20th century

Scaldra? Proto-Dax.

[fresh sail]

Makes you wonder what was gonna come from operator choosing to drink it
I don't imagine it will be relevant tho

[sick nebula]

There are also social divisions within the Orokin.

for example, the Seven rule the other Orokin.

[smoky solstice]

YEAH BUT WHO ARE THE OROKIN THEN, it's so confusing to me

[fresh sail]

As it stands, it kinda just makes the mountain scene edgy for no reason

[smoky solstice]

like legit there's like 10 of them, literally one guy could take care of them if he was lucky

and yet it stood for what seems like thousands of years

[sick nebula]

No, there were considerably more than 10 Orokin

[stiff fable]

Somehow between the techrot, the Radiation Wars, and experimenting with the Void, the rich and famous from our era right now managed to plant themselves on top of the social hierarchy and used mind control, genetic engineering and superweapons to stay there

[smoky solstice]

I mean yeah but my point is like if the ratio is 1:100000000000 in terms of orokin to everyone else, then I don't think it's realistic for them to have held any control at all

[stiff fable]

And then they erased all the records from before they took over to make sure they stayed there

[smoky solstice]

I mean maybe idk, it's just so weird

[sick nebula]

Just the ones we know of are:

• The Seven (7)
• The Entrati (6)
• The Queens (2)

Which is at least 15 that we know of as individuals

And there were almost certainly a lot more than 15.

[smoky solstice]

like even with whatever mind control measures, you're still human and capable of like thinking

and to control a group of people, you don't necessarily need to outnumber them but you do need to be significant

[stiff fable]

Weird analogy so bear with me, but did you ever try taking over your school as a kid?

[sick nebula]

The Dax are mind controlled and we have no idea how many of them there were

[smoky solstice]

and they don't sound signifcant at all, if we're talking about tens, even if we're talking about hundreds, how would they even hold for so long

[smoky solstice]

yeah I get it but the ratio is 1:30, not 1:100000000

[stiff fable]

Oh there were millions of Orokin

[smoky solstice]

so there were millions of people actively involved in the leadership? I don't really get it

[strange plinth]

we also know about that couple in dagath's backstory, yeah?
unnamed but they existed

[stiff fable]

But they ruled over tens of billions

[sick nebula]

Are the two from Citrine's mission also confirmed as Orokin?

[tall echo]

The orokin were just high ranking, not all leaders

[smoky solstice]

because like I don't think we even have millions of people ruling over earth

[stiff fable]

Belric and Rania were not Orokin

[stiff fable]

That's correct but the rich and famous are a good example to use

Think about the millionaires and billionaires

[smoky solstice]

well yeah but you say this and then I'm gonna say that slaughtering everyone who was just benefitting and not involved in the leadership was clearly unjustified

[stiff fable]

How many of them directly rule things?

Maybe 200 around the world.

How many are there? Few tens of thousands.

[tall echo]

Cutting off the heads of a hydra won't kill it

[smoky solstice]

yeah and I don't think mindless slaughter of them would be proper, especially since I don't think they "control" much of anything if we're talking in standards that would be fit to justify slaughtering them

[sick nebula]

Oh, are we getting into topics of "deserve to die"?

Because that's a whole different question

[smoky solstice]

ofc that's a different question but I'm trying to understand what the Orokin actually were to actually have an opinion of this

[tall echo]

All orokin were horrible, leader or not

[stiff fable]

But there's the insidious bit. Every Orokin's continued existence was contingent on torturing one person into mindlessness, and then they spent the rest of their time torturing people for fun.

[tall echo]

The entrati are slightly less horrible

[stiff fable]

The Entrati are less horrible because they're permanently in the "finding out" phase.

[smoky solstice]

because if they were all just leadership, then yeah, for sure, it's justified, they're part of the political class, it makes sense, but if they were just wealthy and had a hand in the leadership based off the fact that they were aristocrats who got the benefits which come with that, it's a whole different question

[strange plinth]

i mean
each orokin was more than likely responsible for at least one death personally
continuity n such
how many were truly in their first body? i'm willing to bet very few

[stiff fable]

Last thing before I go but are you familiar with the Indian caste system?

[smoky solstice]

yeah but that doesn't mean the solution is to kill them, there's other ways to get rid of that

[stiff fable]

Not saying that

One very weird thing about it is that members of the Brahmin caste carry that in the back of their heads despite it being officially abolished

Including when they live in other countries

To this day there are major incidents of bullying based on caste positions in non-Indian countries

The Orokin caste took their fun by ripping people's skin off and having them roll around on glass.

[sick nebula]

The Tenno were not the ones making that call.

Ballas was.

[smoky solstice]

yeah but my point is that a person can be killed only if they can reasonably interfere with the instilling of a new system. Even if they engaged in continuity, you could argue life in prison in a new system is okay, but I don't think a unilateral death penalty, from people who, we have to keep in mind, don't have a direct popular sanction (saying this because it's not like they held a vote or something), is all good

[stiff fable]

Each and every Orokin would have fought to preserve the Orokin caste

Not because "they're Orokin" but because it's human nature to fight to keep your society and your place intact, particularly when you're on top

It is, weirdly enough, the most humanizing trait about the Orokin

[tall echo]

Well, part natah code, part tenno anger

[sick nebula]

I think you're forgetting that the guy who planned this whole thing, Ballas, was Orokin.

And not just any Orokin, one of the Seven, the highest of the Orokin.

[smoky solstice]

yeah and that doesn't mean that they all have to be killed just because they think the current system is fine. It's about who must die instead of who should die for me, ig mostly because I think that the only people who should die are the people who must die.

[stiff fable]

Oh yeah totally but he saw himself as making space for himself as God Emperor of Mankind

[smoky solstice]

this in one way alligns with my thoughts on the death penalty, I personally don't think it's ever justified and therefore have fairly strict morals on when it's justified to take another person's life. I'm not saying you don't, but it's one of the reasons I consider specifically what must be done rather than what is convenient to do or whether they deserved it or not.

[stiff fable]

From what we know the other Seven would have tried the same.

[smoky solstice]

and in terms of whether they would've fought for it, it would depend on what the fighting would look like

if they're like engaging in an armed attack or something, then the answer is clear, if they're just engaging in speech, then it's like wtf are we even doing. There's obviously an in-between but that's why it's a hard question for me to answer right away

[tall echo]

At least two of the seven were not really best friends

Ballas making gara prime just to spite nihil

[smoky solstice]

anyway, I really gotta go to bed

I'm like passing out and I've had a long week at work

so good night everyone, I'll try to get more educated on the specifics of the orokin and the orokin slaughter

[strange plinth]

certainly a sentence there lmao

[tall echo]

The orokin had it coming

[sick nebula]

I don't think that a revolution is the right lens to view this through.

It was an internal power struggle aided by a bit of enemy action

It was not the first act of the Tenno independent of the Orokin

It was the last act of the Tenno serving the Orokin.

[tall echo]

(It was more hunhow's plan than ballas')

[sick nebula]

Also, it's worth mentioning:

It appears to have been possible to become Orokin.

Ordan Karris was offered it, for example.

[tall echo]

Well duh

It's a rank

[stiff fable]

That was actually something I brought up explicitly

[sick nebula]

Some caste systems do not have mobility like that.

[proper barn]

no kings no matters wait are we talking about that?

well they are closer to royality. royality itself is a scam. @smoky solstice

[fresh sail]

Royalty is a scam, bc I am king

This is truth

[feral cape]

Alarez and bilsa count too

[restive river]

You’re forgetting Mother’s mother and Son’s fiancé

Also Dagath’s partners

[neon light]

Something I love about our token eldritch horror is that he's such a petty pain in the ass to Albrecht

[honest fable]

Okay so it's okay to talk about spoilers here? Just to be sure?

Okay I'm just going to go for it

This girl. This young girl... Something tells me she is going to be the one responsible for giving us a huge leap towards taking on the Indifference. I mean.... She cracked it. She cracked time travel... If she can do that then I have no doubt that she could make heads or tails on Void Energy. And we all know how chaotic that stuff is.

[oblique tinsel]

Void Nova?

[honest fable]

I mean... Maybe? I mean she's already able to bend space at her whims.

[humble sierra]

Her time travel is based on Void Energy. There's a new chat with Quincy where ||she assumes he's not aware of quantum mechanics and whatnot, but he surprises her with sound understanding, and they keep talking until she mentions void stuff, which is something completely unknown to even him||

[shell robin]

Is it possible for the indifference to corrupt or control a Tenno?

[humble sierra]

Corrupt? Depends what you mean, but It was able to make Rell lose sanity over time (likely to the same extent as the Zariman Parents). So far the only person we've seen it control is Rusalka, and it's implied that it was voluntary, or a deal was made.

[shell robin]

Let’s say the indifference needs another acolyte or herald and it sets its sights on a Tenno would it be possible?

[graceful swan]

It would just cut itself if needing a new herald

[shut lantern]

Who are the other acolytes/heralds? Is it Rusalka?

[sick nebula]

It's not clear whether this threat is empty, but at the Octopede fight:

Rusalka: "This is your future!"
Rusalka: "I have uses for dealbreakers!"
Rusalka: "My herald looked like you... once!"
Rusalka: "How will I reassemble your pieces?!"

[static wasp]

How is the helminth/lizzie immune to any time bs we do? Cus it makes me think the infestation has some link to the void

What with its conscious just seeming like its outside of conventional time at that point

And judging from my chat with quincy just now I think if so then it also vaguely affects the protoframes

[proper barn]

Not immune.

Just aware.

[static wasp]

Oh

[proper barn]

It has no link to the Void. It's actually scared of it

[static wasp]

Just seems like lizzie VIVIDLY remembers stuff, but could be just knowing about it too with a cryptic she us

[proper barn]

We use helmith to go back in time. Like the Infested are just aware of all their tendrils from all times at once.

[static wasp]

Oh, I didn't know that

[proper barn]

@static wasp lizzie is aware of our loops. also she/the helminth/(maybe the rest of the Infested?) Can see all of the Infested from every time period at once.

[static wasp]

Oh

That should be concerning but ok then

[proper barn]

It is but in a different way.

This does count tech rot.

[static wasp]

Wasn't techrot just infested anyway

[proper barn]

Yes

But some people get confused

[static wasp]

I rly thought it was obvious but oh well

[placid thunder]

Does Operator have a canon name?

[analog glade]

void devil and operator is all their called iirc

[graceful swan]

If they did genders would be a bit of an issue

[analog glade]

Unless their name is their voice tag name

[graceful swan]

Username

Mission bosses call us by our username but that’s not a canon name as it’s gameplay

[analog glade]

well they call out, but never actually say the username

just the text does

[graceful swan]

Yeah the text is the closest we get

Ayatan is the closest to a canon name we have

Mara is the code name not canon

[humble sierra]

Gameplay wise, it's your player username. That's the name you go by, maybe the one your parents gave you.

[blazing cloak]

Lol

[placid cypress]

uh guys

Oull is "possibility" yeah?

[placid cypress]

Could Wallys VOULL NE XATA VOK, MARA LOHK be translated into "There is no chance to truly escape, child of the void" or something along those lines alluding to how the Op/Drft cant hide from wally behind the lotus for much longer, just a theory, thoughts?

[humble sierra]

Remember, it's also posed as a question

[placid cypress]

that is true

"Is there no chance to truly escape, child of the void?" Maybe a Taunt?

i totally forgot about the ? ngl, threw me off lul

[humble sierra]

My personal theory is "Do you see the truth, void child?" but I guess until we get a proper explanation, the only thing we'll know for sure is that "Truth", potentially "possibility" and "child", and "void" are there

[misty night]

You're his lawyer in courtroom, try defend him

[placid cypress]

yeah

Possibility is confirmed no?

We mention it to elanor

[humble sierra]

We mention "oull", until we learn a bit more about the language structure it's not entirely clear if "voull" is also the same

[placid cypress]

true, i wish we could have some tidbits about more murmur grammar

like how KA is a negation indicator

[tall echo]

I'm gonna stand up and calmly shout "Your honor. He deserves death."

[placid cypress]

id just stare at the judge and slowly shake my head lol

[humble sierra]

Well, part of the fun is how mysterious the voidtongue is. I think once we get to understanding MITW and the Void a bit more, DE will give us all we need to translate it fully (though apparently we already do?)

[misty night]

Y'all better keep this going it's getting interesting

[placid cypress]

@humble sierra yeah ive been trying to figure it out but its so tedious lol @misty night i had a massive convo about it around over a month ago lol, im obsessed

[tall echo]

Become good version of von karma. Shoot him.

[humble sierra]

So far the biggest key we've gotten to translating it are the Requiem mods and the external, outside-of-the-game-and-Digital-Extreme-websites-but-still-official Bandcamp lyrics for the Whispers in the Walls soundtrack

[placid cypress]

murum vull typa stuff

i have a theory

V indicates a question

maybe

[humble sierra]

Also find it interesting that the Dante Unbound / The Master Returns track has the same lyrics as Yara Jeliira and other tracks like Sanctum Anatomica but very different vibes

[placid cypress]

yeah, sanctum related lore is honestly my fav

im lookin at lyrics rn trying to discern certain grammatical stuff

[crimson thicket]

The man in the wall, Rusalka, and the indifference remind me of the holy trinity

The father, the man, and the holy spirit

[smoky mango]

Man I'm so excited for Tennocon and to find out what the next thing they're working on is... I really like the Tau theory, especially because of the recently released t-shirt showing the Liset going outside the Origin System; although to be fair if we went to Tau we might do it through a Solar Rail or the Sun... hole... thingy from the Praghasa. I'm pretty sure the idea there was to sacrifice the origin system to travel to Tau, so I feel like that's probably how we'd do it too (?)

Then again, I also would love some more content for the Unum Tower, as we know very little about it and only visit it like once in the game, so that could be cool as well

[proper barn]

The solar rail to tau is currently destroyed well our side. Pazuul might be trying to rebuild it.

[smoky mango]

Yeahh I hope to see more about Pazuul and to get more Archons that mix more Warframes, as we currently have Loki, Rhino, and Mag (and Pazuul who is no Warframe)

[dire mountain]

Your honor, he pleads guilty to all charges. However, I am suggesting a plea deal that reduces his sentence from the Jade Light to simply 1000 lifetimes

[woven coyote]

no difference between man in the wall and the indifference tho

man in the wall was just what rell called the indifference iirc

[humble sierra]

No yuvan either just make him survive on one body, until he looks like his concept art

[woven coyote]

lol

[humble sierra]

Okay I thought he'd be more shriveled besides the face and right hand

Misremembering how ripped he was

[dire mountain]

Oh no clone his body over and over again until it starts looking like a grineer for him to do continuity on

[lavish herald]

Any idea if Kalymos is void touched thus technical immortality? Since all I could find is that she was “possibly” cloned after being sick and suddenly showing up again healthy

[humble sierra]

Have you ranked up the Cavia fully?

[proper barn]

Well it might be what happened to the cavai.

[humble sierra]

They get extremely sick over time, then seemingly after a miracle, they're rejuvenated and able to change their appearance

[woven coyote]

there was some loose dialogue from loid that pointed out albrecht might have done something to kalymos iirc

[humble sierra]

Loid then speculates that the same thing happened to Kalymos, who one day, when Son and Daughter were young, also got sick and mysteriously got better, but he just assumed Albrecht cloned her

[proper barn]

Also the kim chats say she could maybe talk

But she just hasn't.

[smoky mango]

Has anyone seen that there's one of Albrecht's void... fingers (y'know, the reliquary drives) hanging from the entrance to Oraxia's Lair? (Like not in the arena, on the entrance to the tower hanging from cobwebs). It really confuses me as to why that is there 🤔

[proper barn]

Wait where?

Screenshot?

[lavish herald]

Kalymos did time travel, and based on the apparent sentimental value and my understanding of Albrecht I don’t think he would have cloned her and treated the clone the same

[proper barn]

That's what loid says.

[smoky mango]

Not on my computer rn, but like, you go through the door to the tower and right above you it's a little bit out of sight

Never seen anyone mention it before

[lavish herald]

Albrecht also mentioned it would be more ethical to send Kalymos to the void instead but sent the last pair

[smoky mango]

If I had to say, since Oraxia was being controlled by The Man in the Wall, it might make sense for her to have one of his void fingers.. Oraxia definitely knows about it because it's tangled with cobwebs, so

[woven coyote]

it isnt a void finger

it is distinctly stony

[smoky mango]

Hmm very finger looking shape tho

[woven coyote]

stone finger but definetely not void finger

[smoky mango]

Hmm

I mean this is the other easy to see finger we have. It might not be as stony, but this one is being used for a reliquary drive while Oraxia's is abandoned, that might easily change its properties (just theorizing tho)

The Man in the Wall is... a wall, after all

[woven coyote]

he isnt

[smoky mango]

The hell is he then, a ceiling? 🤔

[humble sierra]

Part of him is fleshlike with void energy

[woven coyote]

despite what youtubers would have you think

[humble sierra]

That finger in Duviri is just the stone with the finger "aesthetic"

[woven coyote]

the wall form isn't his "true form"

[dire mountain]

This is not that stony

[woven coyote]

besides the fingers used for reliquary drives came from when wally was copying albrecht

[woven coyote]

yeah mumified maybe but not stone

[smoky mango]

Well who's to say though, what you guys say make sense but I still find very weird to have a stone finger hanging from the ceiling of a tower that was lost to the void (pretty sure that's where Scholar's Landing was, but I'm not sure) Maybe we'll learn at one point? Like if there's some other stone fingers in Duviri then I'd get it, but a single one? (Maybe there's more, feel free to correct me)

[woven coyote]

if wally had gained access to one of his actual fingers

we would've known by now

[proper barn]

From the kim messages he's more trapped in the wall.

It also says we literally don't know what that means.

[humble sierra]

Fingers and hands and body parts are just his thing

He does imply that Scholar's landing holds the secret to where his finger is, I think, so that might be relevant

[proper barn]

Yeah it's where Albretch took the finger first which is interesting.

We might also find the original finger in the story.

[smoky mango]

Well that sounds pretty decisive to me then 🤔 Like maybe the stone finger is his finger, maybe he's trying to revitalize it or something because it got stony (?

Idk, Warframe lore is hard

A week ago I didn't even remember the Sun had a hole in it

[proper barn]

No? He says it used to be there.

[lean garden]

if that was his original finger wally wouldnt be foaming at the mouth trying to find it still

[proper barn]

Not that it's there now. Also there's a lot of fingers in the man of the Walls realm.

They are on his chest and stones and everything.

[smoky mango]

Gotcha, I don't really know that much about the lore, just thought I'd share that because it felt kinda out of place when I saw it

[proper barn]

It is interesting.

[rapid perch]

no me llega mi codigo de gmaill y no me deja entrar alguien sabe cual es la solucion ??

[swift steppe]

why would she talk tho

[proper barn]

because the cavia talked?

[swift steppe]

no like

why would she talk like what would she even say why would she feel the need to talk

[potent iron]

Kalymos is a cat. it's probably funnier to her to not talk and make you interpret meows,

[swift steppe]

lol

[grizzled sun]

If kaylmos could talk I’m sure they’d be just the most bratty queen

[swift steppe]

on god

[marsh mango]

hold up
is
LIZZIE
the one singing lamenting the days in universe

[swift steppe]

idk

[hybrid silo]

What warframe that were the first to be created lorewise?

[grizzled sun]

Isn’t it Excalibur rhino and one other on I can’t remember

[marsh mango]

excalibur mag and volt

[grizzled sun]

Doesn’t rhino predate the Tenno though? Or am I remembering something wrong lol

[dire mountain]

Kullervo was a relatively early design

[grizzled sun]

There’s a ton of lore I might be confused 🤣

[dire mountain]

Rhino predates tenno operators but not the Tenno themselves

Because he calmed down when in their presence at the end

[grizzled sun]

Ah that’s what I am remembering. I’m still fairly new to this game but really into the lore

[feral cape]

The first frame to be made following the tennos return from the void is excalibur beyond that we have absolutely no clue

Get 1 rhino kullevero and Dante are all older than excalibur

[barren jasper]

isnt excal prime the first frame ever made

[feral cape]

No

[barren jasper]

The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us. The more advanced we became, the greater our losses. The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed.

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.

[feral cape]

Yes like I said first of the frames post tenno

Warframes predate the tenno like gen 1 rhino kullevero and dante

[barren jasper]

wheres the info where dante is older than the tenno?

i dont remember that but its been a bit since I looked at the lore

[lean garden]

dante is older than tenno-frames, because he escaped from the event that caused the pre-tenno frames to be discarded

[barren jasper]

wait what was the pre-tenno event thing

[glacial bough]

Warframes were made before the Tenno came back

[lean garden]

the warframe insurrection, as described by ballas in the sacrifice and minorly expanded in Dante Unbound

[glacial bough]

So many bots in servers today

[rugged parcel]

I'm really confused. Isleweaver just makes the man in the wall seem more like a petulant child than some sort of menacing force.

Is it just because it's a captured version of the operator (a child)?

[tall echo]

Wally is a sore loser

[lean garden]

I mean, its the same goober in Chains of Harrow, who very noticeably shouted "Cant take me from me"

so like, characterisation is as normal

[rugged parcel]

I just don't understand what's so important about the single finger albrecht took because there's like 10 bajillion hands via the murmur (which iirc is an extension of wally) and the like

[strange turtle]

The finger is part of him, and without it he’s less capable

[rugged parcel]

If Wally's mad about the finger what about all the parts we're destroying via killing the murmur off

[lean garden]

notice how the murmur and the fingers we have are quite different?

[rugged parcel]

I mean I haven't looked at them that closely because I've been busy killing them

[lean garden]

its the difference between me using my boogers to go fight and you running off with my finger

its mine

[rugged parcel]

I guess that makes sense

Then why does wally bring Oraxia back when we put all that effort in to kill her if he's mad at the finger being taken. We didn't take it

Oraxia is an extension of albrecht's will in Duviri according to wally, so like

[tall echo]

He's using her as a weapon

[strange turtle]

We’re helping to keep it away because his motivations and goals are mysterious beyond the finger and he’s kinda a [rude word]. That and we’re trying to reclaim Duviri from Nelly, the place where Albrecht hid the secret of where the finger is.

[lean garden]

we're chums with the fella who did, plus we literally did him dirty in two consecutive main quests for the void war

[proper barn]

Well "single" also without Wally is very powered down it seemsm

[proper barn]

We broke our deal with him.

Also we are working with Albretch.

[rugged parcel]

Are we working for albrecht? I thought we were just working in the parameters he expected

Also why is Mathila the only one working in the spiral during isleweaver? Where's everyone else?

[proper barn]

Both

[proper barn]

It's her domain that is getting attacked also it's seemingly because of her he can invade?

[rugged parcel]

Her domain?

[proper barn]

Yeah around her farm and stuff. Each Courtier when it's not there spiral can be found in a area of the map

[tall echo]

With, not for

[rugged parcel]

That seems pretty out of character of Bombastine to just let another Courtier get to handle an existential threat to the entire kingdom and work directly with Thrax like this

[proper barn]

They all do.

[rugged parcel]

They do?

[native heron]

Is teshin here by any chance?

[lean garden]

in this server? nope

[native heron]

Well where did he go?

He disappeared in operation 8 claws

[lean garden]

probably with the rabbit

[tall echo]

Go to normal duviri

[native heron]

DID HE GET ERASED?

[native heron]

Yeah ik he's there I'm talking about in the new mode

Cuz i know the poor loid is gone now

[tall echo]

He's singular, he can't exist in two places

[native heron]

R.I.P my fav gay man

[tall echo]

He isn't

Isleweaver is a fake duviri

[native heron]

His corpse is literally seen at the top of the scholar's landing

With a message written in words that made me feel pure anger and hatred

[graceful swan]

The real Scholars Landing is still destroyed you can even see this Duviri is missing other Islands from real Duviri

[graceful swan]

That’s the idea

[native heron]

So it's fake?

[graceful swan]

Yes

[native heron]

Oh lord

[graceful swan]

Literally everything in Isleweaver Duviri is fake

[native heron]

I went on a rampage and did like 70 runs as a revenge

[graceful swan]

Except the Murmur and us

[native heron]

What about thrax?

[tall echo]

Wisdom is chasing you, but you are faster

[proper barn]

There's also a minerva and Velimir body.

[native heron]

WHERE!

[tall echo]

Could've very easily just. Checked at the sanctum.

[proper barn]

One sec

[native heron]

Yeah well it's not the same cuz different times

[graceful swan]

If you get all the fragments you can message Minerva and Velmir proving it’s fake bodies or like another timeline version at least

[native heron]

On it

[native heron]

I only need 2 fragments actually

The first and 3rd

[graceful swan]

First and 3rd are in Castle town

[proper barn]

In the starting cave? Oh wait nem said where they where. There are 3 somacords.

[proper barn]

@native heron this is where the other 2 are.

[native heron]

Thanks :3

[rich stump]

Do we actually know where exactly Höllvania is located? From the KIM conversations I figure it’s somewhere in Europe, but do we have any more detail than that?

[heavy wharf]

The more and more I'm grinding out the Isleweavers event, the more painful Rusalka's jabs are... they're actually becoming painful now. I'm just going over the same missions over and over and over again and that progress bar ain't moving

[lean garden]

thats about it really

[lean garden]

well, thats because progress is tied to coins spent

[heavy wharf]

Yeah... I'm about to start buying the wisp tokens soon... (or whatever they're called I forgot the name)

[heavy wharf]

That's all we know and the countries in Warframe are named differently anyway so there won't be a more precise location other than somewhere in the Void Eternalism shenanigans

[lean garden]

Aint much void eternalism here anyways

[lapis halo]

LF players who would be interested in creating a warframe series on YouTube with me must have a creative mind set to help create scrips and ideas for episodes the roles required are as followed 👇

🎥 Video Recorder & Editor
🎙️ Voice Actors
🎭 Body Actors
🕺Support Characters
🦹‍♂️ Antagonist
👨‍🎨 Prop & Stage setups for scenes
📄 Lore knowledge to help write scripts

Also any Veteran clans with that participated in DE fashion frame dojo events or that have OG tile sets would be a great addition to this.

DM if interested let’s have some fun with our creativity 🥂.

[strange turtle]

It’s probably fine to ask for volunteers for the lore bit but it’s probably best to ask elsewhere for the rest

[woven linden]

Does Quincy like get better? I've felt kind of uncomfortable in our conversation, and i just got to the point where the hex members are willing to share why they joined the army, but Quincy's made me very uncomfortable, he said like "oh well if u wanna know why i joined the army you gotta do something for me" which 🚩 but fine, i accept, and he tells me, i ask what happened with Arthur, and he says something like "im gonna need another favor for that" 🚩🚩 so i ask why and he says "everything is a transaction you want something from me and i want something from you" and i just end the conversation with "do you wonder why the other hex dont like you" like WHAT WAS THAT???

[humble sierra]

He's definitely a lot better once you get to know him.

The transaction thing doesn't really go away, especially towards the end with one of your big conversations, but it does get an explanation.

[woven linden]

That just makes me super uncomfortable

[strange turtle]

Quincies like that for a while, but but you have to play ball with him for a while to get the reveal. He does have good things and convos without that though

[lean garden]

you've turned on this boolean

[woven linden]

Oh goodness what is this

[humble sierra]

The conversation's flowchart

[woven linden]

Okay whats the one I've turned on mean?

[lean garden]

the flowchart for the conversation where you telling him that this is why the other hex arent as close to him has its consequences

[woven linden]

I cant read it its too low resolution

[lean garden]

Spoilers

https://tenor.com/view/spoilers-pandorica-river-song-doctor-who-gif-18293417

[woven linden]

Whatever it is it looks irreversible, which i feel bad about, but damn i damn i can only feel so bad about it

[lean garden]

Dont worry, you still have a chance to make it out

All you need to do is play his game to make him talk

[woven linden]

Alright... it just feels slimy

Like r/niceguys shit

[lean garden]

Oh nah

nothing like that

Think of it as

Hozier's Nobody's Soldier

[woven linden]

Idk what that is

[lean garden]

its a song

[woven linden]

Okay i see the relation with him seeking education

But idk what that has to do with the favors

[strange turtle]

Quincy can seem bad but if you play along with him you’ll see he can actually be quite sweet. The whole favours stuff is || a leverage thing, he has issues and a certain worldview. He doesn’t actually intend to take advantage of you, he cares, but they’re how he copes||

Spoilered in case you’d rather not get spoiled, but a vague summary with certain missing details in case you don’t want to hold out for the convos dealing with it

[woven linden]

Oh okay

[lean garden]

Trigger the right boolean and he'll tell you

[woven linden]

Cause paired with his flirtyness it can sound very concerning

[lean garden]

Just uh, dont worry when he asks you to make him hate you

[strange turtle]

You can ask him to stop

[lean garden]

yea he's chill if you tell him you aint want him like that

hell, he'll even help you with whoever you want to date

[woven linden]

Okay

[strange turtle]

You can also change your mind later IIRC. And I’m fairly certain it doesn’t block you out from dating

[woven linden]

Is there anywhere i can get this graph in a readable resolution?

[lean garden]

the KIMulacrum

[woven linden]

Ty

[lean garden]

I cant send the link here since its not whitelisted

[woven linden]

I found it

Which direction am i going on it?

[lean garden]

QuincyAlone

[woven linden]

I have no clue what these nodes mean or how to make them happen

[lean garden]

you've already triggered QuincyAlone

[woven linden]

Okay so now i can choose quincyhonest true or false

[lean garden]

When this conversation comes around if you proceed down the right flow the game will check if the booleans are active

[lean garden]

there are 4 conversations where you can have triggered QuincyHonest

you can cross-reference your earlier chats by looking at your logs and seeing if they went down the right flow

[woven linden]

I think im missing some message history?

I dont see rank1convo1

Im "trusted" with him

[strange turtle]

I don’t remember how many Rank1convos there are or if Convo1 is mandatory but you don’t get all of the convos

There’s a setting you have to turn on for that

Think it only works with a reset or when you’re still starting though

[scenic depot]

do we have a translation for this yet

ignore my message in the bottom left

IGNORE IT

[tardy osprey]

[proper barn]

Ruskla can't use warframes. She's just being controlled by Wally. Also there are 3 different characters hidden in the new isleweaver.

[glacial bough]

[humble sierra]

Is this next to the statue of her? That one says "BND TH NEE" so either "Bend The Knee" or "Bend Thy Knee", since when interacting with it as drifter/operator, you kneel and it glows and summons a chest

[restive river]

Same thing happens in normal duviri with thrax statues!

[proper barn]

you can btw just need to be drifter

[smoky solstice]

Thoughts?

This is the one line I don't understand

What is there to figure out from this

[silk atlas]

Operator/Drifter

Just stating what's obvious by now

[smoky solstice]

Well no, obviously she's referring to the operator and drifter, what's not clear is what is she taunting us about not knowing

[silk atlas]

Ah

[smoky solstice]

Both the drifter and operator know about what you're referring to so it can't be that

[proper barn]

Seeing how we both turn out.

Cuz Wally made our parents attack us just to see what would happen. @smoky solstice

[smoky solstice]

I'm confused about how this connects to the line exactly

Especially since isn't this supposed to be a fourth wall thing to some extent, maybe taunting the community about not figuring something out

That's what it sounds like in my head when I hear it

[silk atlas]

There hasn't been a single fourth wall thing in this game last I checked, but if it's taunting about the players, I figure itd be the people who still think that Drifter is Operator from the future.

[smoky solstice]

Maybe but the game is explicit in saying it's not that so idk

[silk atlas]

You'd be surprised

You'd be really surprised

There's still people who come in with Drifter not having taken a deal

[smoky solstice]

But I don't mean fourth wall directly but like just the things you see in media when a twist is coming up to be like "hey here's this detail that's important that you probably missed"

[smoky solstice]

Sure but that part's not explicitly spelled out

And the counter to that is only confirmed in a duviri tablet

[silk atlas]

And a KIM convo, though no less important

[smoky solstice]

Ig yeah that too

[smoky solstice]

Still confused about what you're saying here though, I legit just don't understand

[silk atlas]

Closest thing I can think of to this is "What the hell is a 'MARA LOHK'?"

[smoky solstice]

Am I being dumb

[proper barn]

Wally just is doing things to see what happens.

[smoky solstice]

Ok but how does that relate to the line

[proper barn]

We know the deal explicitly now. Both drifter and the operator took cuz they where the same person then. We know we broke it but we don't know how.

[silk atlas]

I don't think we broke it, we just haven't paid it back.

[smoky solstice]

Yeah but we don't have any intent to pay it back, so it's broken

[proper barn]

So the inference is he separated drifter and operator for the same reason he made the parents try to kill the kids on the Zariman just to see what would happen.

[smoky solstice]

End of whispers cutscene confirms that what we're doing now is contrary to the deal

[proper barn]

We are literally called a Deal-breaker.

[silk atlas]

Wait when

[proper barn]

In isleweaver.

[silk atlas]

That'd explain it

Haven't heard that line

[smoky solstice]

I think the whole Orokin slaughter theory is compelling but idk what the current lore consensus is on this

[proper barn]

What do you mean?

[restive river]

What Orokin slaughter theory

[smoky solstice]

But I'm still confused as to how that relates to the line. "Two identical souls raised in such different environments. Haven't you figured it out yet?" Idk how what is said here implies it's related to what you're saying and why it would even say it like that

[proper barn]

I don't care about that anymore what is the Orokin slaughter Theory?

[smoky solstice]

Like the deal was to wipe them out and us breaking it is us not finishing the job (namely keeping Albrecht alive). It's not actually called that, I just called it that now. I've heard of it and idk if there's anything explicitly contradicting it.

[proper barn]

Literally not true. We know that's not what happened.

Cuz drifter even says we only killed them after they kill Margulis.

Also it was a Sentient/Ballas Plot that didn't end cuz lotus didn't kill is.

[restive river]

What we offered wally was our light
That’s what he wants, not dead orokin

[smoky solstice]

Yeah ig the only way that would make sense is if it set the stage for the slaughter to happen by making the circumstances for all of that, but that is a bit convoluted yeah

[restive river]

We killed them because they killed Margulis

Like
That was spelt out pretty clear??

[proper barn]

Hunhow and Ballas where the ones to like want the night of Naga drums to happen.

[restive river]

Wally hates the Orokin for using his finger sure but his hatred is more towards Albrecht
Who
We did not kill nor are trying to kill

[smoky solstice]

Yeah, just that us not killing Albrecht, that feels like it connects narratively with that being the thing that is breaking the deal. But idk what the deal would be about if not the orokin slaughter if not killing albrecht is breaking it.

[heavy wharf]

I always assumed that the Rusalka line was talking about the Drifter and Rusalka herself. Both took a deal with Wally but one followed through while the other realised giving up their light was not going to be ideal.

[smoky solstice]

Maybe the deal was to specifically kill Albrecht at some point? But that never seems like the goal ever so idk. I mean it's clear we don't even remember what the deal is so idk if we can even go by what the kids do to tell what the deal was.

[proper barn]

It's very dumb this theory. Cuz it's like not only done by the tenno.

[smoky solstice]

I don't think she would say identical if she was referring to them both.

[smoky solstice]

What's not only done by them

Maybe the deal was to let wally wreak havoc on the origin system ig, that would make sense perhaps

Wally tries to get in, we look the other way, now we're actively stopping it

[heavy wharf]

Wasn't the deal the drifter saying something along the lines of "you can have my light?" in the Zariman?And the Drifter was meant to become indifferent during Duviri but the whole Lotus hand came along. And then it doubled down during 1999 when we willingly put ourselves through another loop hell just because we care about the people. I always thought of it like that

[smoky solstice]

Wait is this why people are talking about some "light", are there new lore relevant KIM chats? Haven't done those in a minute

[proper barn]

Okay so the tenno where basically goaded to do it by Lotus sent by hunhow as a way for the sentients to win the war. Ballas was also part of this plan cuz he told Hunhow the operators exist.

Like us killing the Orokin was part of Hunhows plan just Lotus didn't kill the tenno after.

[heavy wharf]

Nope, it's on an older quest, the one where the Drifter and Operator meet (forgot the name of it though)

[smoky solstice]

The new war...?

Oh I mean there is the literal physical light. We say "you can have my light" as in we don't know it's Wally and think it's another kid so we give it to them to comfort them, ig I never really put significance on the fact that Wally replies with "thanks, I think I will" or something like that

But is that connected to the actual deal?

[heavy wharf]

... Not exactly sure. But it's like those stupid fae deals where they ask you if they can have your name, and then boom you don't have a name anymore because you literally gave it up

[smoky solstice]

I know about this lore, not really what I was asking about but I'm about to go to sleep, so it's whatever

[smoky solstice]

I mean it could be but it sounds a bit weak for something so significant to the plot. Like we didn't actually sign up for it, it was just in the fine print lmao

Ig it could be that it was explicitly spelled out and that was just a hint towards what was discussed between them later, idk

[heavy wharf]

Wally would definitely be a fine print person imo

[smoky solstice]

Maybe but in a different way I feel, not "oh you didn't know you were actually making a deal with me but you did and then we shook on it later but you didn't know I was referring to something earlier"

Regardless though, I still don't really know what Rusalka's line is about

Idk what more there is to connect from the paradox

[restive river]

Wally wants our light
Whatever that may be

That’s our part of the deal
That and the page he added to the deal that we refused to give him

[smoky solstice]

Idk I gotta bounce though, good night everyone

[tall echo]

It does get brought up again in one of the new KIM chats

[humble sierra]

Yeah explicitly the "light" part, no?

[restive river]

Yeah it’s pretty evident that whatever our light is is our half of the deal
That and the page he threw in during whispers

[restive river]

Explicitly the light

We offered our light
Meant our globelight
He accepted
And has not taken whatever light he was referring to

[tall echo]

Light is usually a reference to life or soul, no?

[restive river]

Our self?
Our soul?
Our Oro?

[heavy wharf]

In a completely different topic, I like to think that Albrecht deliberately made the 1999 situation in a way that it required the Drifter instead of the Operator. But at the bare minimum, the Operator has spent years around the Origin System learning to care about people and that choosing matters. Meanwhile the Drifter hasn't.

[humble sierra]

Innocence too

Joy

Purpose?

[tall echo]

Right but that can easily be excluded from the options

[glacial bough]

I'm still working through a reset, you got the chat for it?

[restive river]

We do use our light for the holdfasts but that feels more like our piece of wally within us and controlled by us

[tall echo]

I do but I have no idea which hex it was from

[humble sierra]

Eleanor

[heavy wharf]

Oh, dead gods... I need that wiki guide so badly

[humble sierra]

Browse.wf

Kimulacrum

[heavy wharf]

I somehow managed to get Velimir and ... Saryn a happy ending in my first run, and then failed miserably for all my other loops

MINERVA AHA I DIDN'T FORGET

[humble sierra]

Daily/weekly resets up!

[proper barn]

Atsia you saw that the table reset and the main ones are separate now right?

[glacial bough]

Yeah. I kept Vellimir them, reset the Hex

[proper barn]

yee.

i know a lot of people where annoyed that to reset the table they had to redo all the normal hex.

[heavy wharf]

I wanna pet Lizzie.

[proper barn]

to pet or a pet lizzie?

[heavy wharf]

Pet/pat it

[proper barn]

Her

But fair.

[smoky mango]

I wonder if the sentient that came after the Unum's kuva was right and kuva would be able to fix their infertility 🤔. I mean if it were the case one would think others would already have tried, as getting kuva shouldn't be that difficult for a sentient

Is the Unum's kuva perhaps different to the kuva that the grineer harvest?

[fierce phoenix]

I have never messaged here so idk if I need to spoiler hide or not

|| Hello, I have a question. Has captain Vor and the man in the wall ever interacted with each other?? Was it the Janus key?? With the latest content, the man in the wall messes with a lot of different people or many of them indirectly connected to the man in the wall (tenshin in duviri). But what of Vor?? Where did he go? I he forever a kind of guardian mini boss of the void that's doomed to repeat his monologue then died over and over again to out hands? ||

[dire mountain]

He is in the undercroft

Talks about a wall of bone

So. Presumably he knows

[fierce phoenix]

He is? I have never seen him in the undercroft. What does he do? Does he have the same mannerism of Naci? For clarity, she goes back and forth talking about herself and the man in the wall communicating though her

Does he ever appear in the current eight claw event?

[tall echo]

No

[tall echo]

He's the same as in mot survival but with a different speech

[fierce phoenix]

that feels like a miss opportunity. Thank you. I got into warframe lore videos and noticed his absence even though he was saved by and in the void

[glacial bough]

Vor was saved by the Janus Key, We don't know exactly how he ended up in the Undercroft

[tall echo]

Tbf isleweaver takes place in a fake duviri

[fierce phoenix]

Oh yeah, I think that was mentioned in the eight claw missions before? I don't think the undercroft would be fake undercroft.

Well the undercroft is still in the void right? Like Duviri but different?

[tall echo]

It's part of duviri

[fierce phoenix]

Ah so what effects Duviri also effects the undercroft

[brittle siren]

huh

so Sevagoth just suck ppl soul

[swift sentinel]

He's ghost themed so it tracks. It's also a direct reference to his passive and Shadow's Consume.

[quartz bison]

What does the narmer faction mean in the current timeline, now that ballad is no more

[swift sentinel]

It's leftovers led by Pazuul, an Archon inhabiting Erra's body.

[north jolt]

We never directly see it, but Vor is aware of the void itself at least and has been gifted with void powers of his own, so maybe? most definitely in some way or another

Oh and someone else mentioned him talking about the "wall of bone" (just a couple letters off from stone :p) so yeah its pretty much been confirmed in every possible way other then the game straight up telling you directly, that they have interacted before

[north jolt]

I think its as simple as, he died, came back, void/Wally gave him some cool new powers in exchange for his loyalty and him being in the undercroft is just Wally sending him there to screw with us

[proper barn]

Seemingly yes. @north jolt

Cuz he has talks in Duviri about wall of bone.

[rare ibex]

Anybody know a goot youtube video on warframe lore and the storylines i completed all the available story quests and have no idea whats going on

[lean garden]

Look up Bagus on Youtube, or the Orokin Archives

[feral cape]

Bagus is a name ive never heard

[lean garden]

its GMK's youtube account

[feral cape]

Gmk?

[dire mountain]

Wait I remember them

[graceful swan]

Person in the Community server

[stray herald]

I still dont get how drifter got to the zariman in 1999

[chrome frost]

....guys I just had a very very disturbing thought caused by the temporal dust's description

[graceful swan]

Wally

[chrome frost]

Indifference isn't here just because it wants its finger back, while it is one of the reasons the other one might be to feast upon the Sol system and the grander universe of it, its strand of khra basically. This thought came to me from the fact that temporal dust is basically a broken down corpse of what used to be other universes/ strands of khra if you will, and even wally himself states during the final confrontation in the isle weaver "my heralds used to look like you" and threatens to reassemble us somehow. What im getting at is wally would have come either way, even if entrati never went into the void, i believe that the indifference is a sort of Galactus of warframe universe except instead of feasting on planets he feasts upon universes he enters

living beings get turned to dust same as the rest obviously as an example we can say that that's what's happening to corrupted vor, he's gonna harden into stone, but then crumble to temporal dust, get reassembled by wally into the murmur and continue existing as an extension of it. As for the non living beings getting turned to dust/stone look no further than ANYTHING that the indifference as a greater entity (as in not as a herald) touched, from the entrati labs specifically the area where loid is, to the island in the isleweaver and a part of duviri all got turned into a part of the great indifference

Then again i might just be overthinking it :3

(just so my statement about sanctum have proof)

[lean garden]

Galactus of warframe
Means Wally is good for marketing

[graceful swan]

Wally wouldn't have come if it weren't for Albrecht

Albrecht Entrati is ultimately responsible for attracting its attention to the Origin System.

Albrecht Entrati may be ultimately responsible for its existence.

[chrome frost]

while yes he was the one who attracted it he wasn't responsible for its existence, it existed before him, temporal dust be the proof of it, the only thing that he might have been responsible for is giving it sentience but not the existence

[graceful swan]

PC says it as a 50/50

plus with 1999 Albrecht says he created Wally

Sythel has a quote about it too

It seems Wally being created by Albrecht is the direction DE are going

[chrome frost]

hmm by that logic dominus thrax should also be a god tier entity unless wally is the embodiment of what orokin wanted to be

(by that i mean indifferent gods who create, destroy and take as they please)

[graceful swan]

Thrax isn't Indifferent he just lacks the ability to control his emotions

Plus Thrax has 0 powers

[chrome frost]

*outside duviri

[graceful swan]

Thrax doesn't have any in Duviri either

The Throne does

[chrome frost]

:0 never thought of that actually...

[graceful swan]

Like whenever you see the looping it is always from whoever is sitting on the Throne and limited to only the Throne

[chrome frost]

still though if wally was made by entrati how does he have access to the temporal dust? as far as i know he is bound to our universe via his fingers being here

he cant exactly go eat some 2 piece universe burger to burp up some dust at the moment

[graceful swan]

Wally can access the Strands of Khra which is CE timelines

That's literally how the fake Duviri was made

[chrome frost]

huh...

[graceful swan]

“She weaves the strands of Khra to tether her fake Duviri to the true”

[wispy plover]

Ik this has nothing to do what y’all talking about, but i got a curious thought. If you can choose any of the warframes in the game and they had protoframe….which one of them do you see being a crashout.

[chrome frost]

Valkyr for one, then styanax because the way i see it the warframe is essentially an uplifter of those who are oppressed and peeps in hollvania? Yeah the only dudes opressed more than them are the grineer

[brittle siren]

Sorry for stupid question, but what does crashout mean here

[graceful swan]

There's different meanings to crash out?

[brittle siren]

I mean the other guy mention Styanax and I dont think he is a type of person who would do that

[sage comet]

wait.....
then what about the drifter doing the loop in 1999?
(unless that is his main ability, though I question why its limited to a simple throne in duviri)

[lean garden]

loid says its albrechts doing that the loop exists

[humble sierra]

Yeah we just use our knowledge of how the Duviri loop works to extend the Dec31 loop Albrecht made

[graceful swan]

Drifter has never created a loop

[sage comet]

oh...
so anything with a loop, he can manipulate that loop to extend it

[lean garden]

eeeeeeeeh, we're not even sure drifter extended it

[sage comet]

should be obvious enough, especially at the end of 1999

[graceful swan]

What Drifter falling over and being mad and a loop looping all in 3 seconds?

Then an inbox message after stating Albrecht extended it

[sage comet]

wait a minute, I don't think I received an inbox message of that, unless I am forgettting

😭

[graceful swan]

Inbox message:
What happened?

Drifter,

I can make no sense at all of these readings. Your site of temporal injection has somehow shifted. Your loop now encompasses the entire year of 1999.

Albrecht's interference is to blame, no doubt. What does he feel you need more time to achieve? He surely must have given guidance, however cryptic!

I can offer one service, at least. I discovered a clandestine blueprint among Albrecht's personal effects, for a warframe so secret it was never named. It is yours.

—Loid

[sage comet]

oh...

[graceful swan]

Explaining it as just what you see on screen is complicated when you see what a prior quest established

[sage comet]

don't worry, I have finished all the quest there is, so I can understand it if that is what you mean

[graceful swan]

I mean Duviri showed us the Throne of Duviri was doing the looping not a singular individual

And that was limited to Duviri

[dusk temple]

In the introductory cinematic to Duviri, we see Thrax reset the loop without the throne though?

[lean garden]

Throne belongs to Thrax then tho

[dusk temple]

So one doesn’t not have to be seated on the throne to utilize its power, just be the current ruler of Duviri?

[sly ibex]

Drifter has an intrinsic time looping power, I think. That's what I got out of the 1999 quest, when Drifter causes time to loop.

If the loop was just fully maintained on its own or through Albrecht's means, there wouldn't have been a reason for Drifter to fist slam, right?

I'm also confused by the loop now... Some early conversations made it seem like everyone remembered dying and then coming back, but now they say they don't remember loops, so I don't know what to make of that. I've never reset their memories, so it makes no sense to me lol

[graceful swan]

Falling over dying and fist hitting the ground isn't impossible plus the inbox message after makes it harder to tell plus motifs and what DE established earlier

[sly ibex]

The fist hitting the ground was a very deliberate thing, and the clock began to reset right as the first was forcefully hit into the ground. As for the message, that could just be what Loid thinks. DE have already shown that characters don't know everything on numerous occasions, after all.

[graceful swan]

DE did establish the throne had the power, not a specific individual so that happening doing so doesn't help

[lean garden]

But then from a writing POV that email is useless

if it serves no other purpose than "oh maybe they dont know what theyre talking about" having that be the email wrap up is rather pointless

[sly ibex]

Not necessarily. It just lets us know that it's the full year now, Loid's idea on it, and that he found some shinies for us.

[sly ibex]

It might, but it isn't the only source of the power to loop. Heck, Drifter even reverses time to put the throne back together before looping to bring Teshin back to life.

The end of the quest even has Teshin and Drifter saying that the power was Drifter's all along, as I recall.

[normal mountain]

Ngl, forgot about that bit

[sly ibex]

It's easy to forget, since it happens so quickly lol

[lean garden]

yes, and then dont forget Teshin asking Drifter why they gave it back to Thrax

[sly ibex]

The "it" there came across to me as the Kingdom itself and the throne, but Drifter still has their own power.

[lean garden]

Teshin: "You did it. You took control."

Drifter: "I always had it. Thrax didn't make this place—"

Teshin: "—you did. But… you reset it. You gave it all back to him. Why?"

Drifter: "I guess it… felt like a good trade."

I dont think the exchange in question can allow for a "I only gave him back the kingdom" situation

[normal mountain]

The Kingdom, and all the rights that come with it, I imagine
Drifter clearly still has his time loop powers in 1999 though

But he won't be summoning armies of skeleton Dax soldiers like Thrax can

Although I'd personally love to see him do that against Scaldra

[lean garden]

thats the sheboioing tho, does he actually have it? what are the real extents of it? because at that instance of the quest is already at the time the loop was supposed to loop back around

the voidtongue already appears on the display, and the reactor was seconds away from giving a free fireworks display

[normal mountain]

Well, if he didn't do it, then how come he can decide whether the Hex keep their memories when the Loop resets?

He clearly has some control over the 1999 loop

[lean garden]

thats the fun thing about it tho, is it loop powers or is this because you literally had to do a connecty bit to progress in the overarching quest?

and even then you cant even stop the guitar from remembering

[normal mountain]

I fail to see a difference between the two things you just described

And Lizzie is Infested, they have a weird relationship with time
...which we only know because of Lizzie

Hmmm

[humble sierra]

What do we think of ovinn nevarei

Nevermind I thought it was a Warframe thing

[normal mountain]

Potatoes make me hungry
But that could just mean I need breakfast

[lean garden]

the difference being that one is exclusively time loop powers and the other is void powers supporting a pre-established loop

the latter being a tad more aligned with albrechts whole "only if you know them" coupled with loids "what does he think you need all that time for"

[normal mountain]

I won't argue the Loop being pre-established, that's pretty much a given
But I highly doubt it was Albrecht who extended the loop

No matter what Loid says
He wasn't there, and he's heavily biased in Al's favor

Albrecht has been to Duviri
It wouldn't surprise me if he knew the Drifter could do stuff like extending loops

[lean garden]

thing is, I don't doubt that thats a valid enough interpretation. But I highly doubt its "clearly" the case

Much like the timeloop in tnw

people are still treating the ending of that time loop as "look at wally clearly killing all those operators"

wow 3 whole people typing

[normal mountain]

I never paid attention to that one, tbh
Unless it comes up again, I think I'll just continue to ignore that fantasy sequence

[humble sierra]

Tbf that visually makes more sense— we see all these other versions of us in pain, only for the Drifter and Operator being shown as fine.

We probably won't see what that cutscene actually means

[lean garden]

I mean I'd just interpret it as the loop resetting at the point of handshake over and over again until drifter intervenes. Because that tallies the most with what we are told in the Pom-2

[sly ibex]

We did see Drifter use their power in 1999, though. Drifter there said "I always had it," so they did not have their power. Just didn't fully realize it, most likely.

[humble sierra]

I don't think Wally is gonna be like "'Muahahahaha remember those guys dying? That was ME erasing all other timelines"

[lean garden]

which we go back into: the topic of that exchange is control over duviri, which isnt exactly the same as "control over any time loops" ya get me? Additionally, the muddying quality of the whole final scene in the first half of the Hex being when the loop is due to reset makes it even less clear that drifter used time loop powers

[sly ibex]

When Drifter slams their fist, it does the spiral animation that we have only seen otherwise in Duviri. That seems like a clear indication to me that it was the Drifter.

[lean garden]

except that it primarily is an indication, as with duviri, of the loop resetting. Which the loop was due to do in that moment. Can you with absolute confidence actually say that was the Drifters doing?

You can reason it might have been all Big D's doing. But you cant really say that its "clearly" the case

[sly ibex]

I feel confident in it, yes. We have only seen that when a loop was manually done, either by Thrax or Drifter previously.

[normal mountain]

Until proven otherwise, I'd be confident in that assessment, yes

[humble sierra]

Yeah it could be that Albrecht examined the loop in Duviri and recreated it there

[sly ibex]

Since that is the currently established norm, I think it makes more sense than going for a new explanation.

[lean garden]

ironically doing the one thing those of his ilk would like, automation

[humble sierra]

Can I just say I love this chat and the discourses we get into

[sly ibex]

[lean garden]

eh, feel free to do so, but "established norm" in light of what the ability of the broader community is capable of makes me uncomfortable

KIV: the above timeloop in tnw

[sly ibex]

For The New War one with our Tenno, we never saw that spiral animation. That makes it seem like a separate thing from Drifter and Duviri.

[lean garden]

anyways Ive armed alyxis with some questions for the live tennocon narrative panel

one of which directly pertains to drifters timelooping

[lean garden]

we also dont actually see the loop go all the way back, what we see instead is a repeated "end" until drifters intervention

it took the Pom-2 to tell the playerbase that that was indeed a timeloop

[sly ibex]

True, but it feels like an "until proven otherwise" kind of situation without knowing more about it, so far.

[normal mountain]

I mean, tbf, The New War does predate the Duviri Paradox
this is kinda flimsy reasoning imo, but I can understand it

[sly ibex]

Wait, didn't we already know it was?

[normal mountain]

Not saying your reasoning is flimsy, Minion, saying mine is there

[lean garden]

like I said, the playerbase imagined a "established norm" that that was Wally culling off operator branches in that instance. The idea of a timeloop wasnt even present until the Pom-2

[sly ibex]

No worries. 😄

[lean garden]

I should clarify that I am not opposed to the Drifter having some form of limited looping capabilities. Im just opposed to the idea that its meant to be "clear" because DE's track record with making things clear is abysmal

in fact Id be more than happy for drifter to have loop powers, because it would make some folks in the community server mad

[sly ibex]

I don't even think of Drifter's looping as limited, honestly. I think it's as powerful in real space as it is in Duviri. XD

[sly ibex]

What? Why? O_o

[lean garden]

I would say its limited in that he needs a loop for that to happen, and for some reason, even in Duviri, the clown doesnt even make his own

[normal mountain]

Sounds like a great reason to me

[sly ibex]

I am interested to see if Drifter can create loops from nothing, honestly. But then again, I don't want Drifter having more powers than Operator. That was the one thing that made me sad about 1999 Drifter time looping (in how it came across to me).

[lean garden]

Look at it like this:
Thrax is the one who actually starts looping things in Duviri, just for the sweet exercise of killing Drifter over and over
Albrecht is the one who made the 1999 loops.

Drifter is merely the tennant moving into the loop house and not even the one who built it

[lean garden]

Some folks there are hyper confident about their understanding of lore, so much so they tend to be equally hyper aggressive when there is deviation

And it becomes apparent that its quite hubristic, when it comes to things like loop powers which are in deeply murky waters

[sly ibex]

Oh, I see lol. We have had things get heated here before too, but we try to get folks to switch topics when that happens. 😄

[lean garden]

I will say that they will go through extensive reasoning to arrive at where they are, which yknow, is a good thing, but as for whether its actually what DE had in mind...

[sly ibex]

Actually, I wonder who did start the looping in Duviri... I don't think that was technically revealed, was it? Could have been kid Drifter.

[sly ibex]

I gotcha lol

[lean garden]

Should be thrax, because Drifter talks about how things fell apart

And it involves a Thrax getting mad at a Drifter growing up

[sly ibex]

True, but we don't know if there was ever any looping for fun before things fell apart, do we?

[lean garden]

and since we know loops preserve the physical body, and that the drifter has died over hundreds of times...

[sly ibex]

I can imagine a kid doing that to do different things for funzies, let's be real. XD

[lean garden]

not really, but my vibe from the KIM chat is that the loops are in response to Drifter dying and Thrax wanting to beat the sucker more

[sly ibex]

Ah, maybe a conversation I didn't get.

Or a specific branch in one I didn't get, whatever lol

[tall echo]

There probably was looping before when drifter was still a child playing hero

[lean garden]

From arthur and quincy

Maybe there were loops when drifter was a kid, but from the way it was phrased its the same dealio as when drifter was at the start of the Duviri Paradox

in that homie was not actualising any control

[sly ibex]

That just seems to say to me that the execution looping started then, but it doesn't seem to indicate if they looped things previously for fun, or such.

[sly ibex]

"Homie, chill." XD

[lean garden]

yes, but specifically what Im pointing out is that based on these, we can assume that kid drifter, much like Duviri Paradox start Drifter, arent likely to be the ones controlling any sorta loop

[sly ibex]

Drifter is the one who manifested all of Duviri and can control it, though. That was the impression I got from the final conversation with Teshin, anyway.

[lean garden]

correct, but as evidenced by that revelation, the goober has been severely under utilising it

so if there were time loops during the era of kid drifter, it would more likely be courtesy of kid drifter's best friend

[sly ibex]

It could also just be that Drifter forgot they had the power, given however long the looping executions were going on lol

[tranquil mica]

I love discussions with protoframes when you refuse to forget the loop

Aoi who asks the use of skull to the necramech ( i ignore myself) and want craft hexamech, Eleanor who learns void language and feel scared, Quincy who develop friendship with Kaya about book to quantical physic, Lettie who learns Ostrons numbers..

And Amir who create the famous book where we are the hero

[sly ibex]

I just wish I knew if they do or do you actually remember the loops. Recent conversations make it seem like they don't, but they definitely remembered the first one. They remembered dying and coming back, that time.

[tranquil mica]

I can't say but Quincy really want to go in the future. Aoi ignored Lua had changed..

[proper barn]

They say

They both do and do not.

[sly ibex]

I wonder if they don't remember exclusively when you make them forget, but there just aren't conversation options for saying "I haven't made you forget," or such lol

[tall echo]

How is any of that related to not making them forget

[halcyon tundra]

is Kekbot cannon to the lore

[jaunty oasis]

You know, considering the story of duviri, and how Thrax is Dominus, it’s giving me Big O vibes

https://tenor.com/view/anime-big-o-mecha-robo-gif-25485273

[tranquil mica]

I don't know if we can say it's a daddy's boy. Someone who had all, like a king and sad to lose his puppet.

But Kaya has success to go in our moment so others could to..

[swift sentinel]

One of the new chats, I think with Arthur, mentions that now that Kaya's cracked time travel, it might lead to a more stable way to travel to and from 1999.

[sly ibex]

I hope we can find a way to stop them from becoming completely Infested. I guess maybe except Flare, since that's how we get Temple, unless time shenanigans and stuff can make it possible to remain Human-ish while we still have access to Temple.... Or whatever lol

[minor jolt]

I think the Quills are so dang cool. Everything is done on purpose, even if it means they die with a fishing rod

[proper barn]

is that a tabs picture?

can't tell if tabs or low rez strabby.

[sage moat]

we've learned what Oull means!

drifter chat confirms its "possibility"
Might be late to this but that's cool i think!

[proper barn]

It is cool.

[sage moat]

now uh. how do they know that

surely it wasn't taught on the zariman. its never stated anywhere else.
Does acquiring a requiem mod give you the information of what it means?

are requiem mods even magic-er than previously thought?

[feral cape]

Who knows if there even magic

[sage moat]

i mean i doubt liches aren't harmed by guns but are harmed by some random normal mods

[feral cape]

Could also just be a gameplay thing

[humble sierra]

The description for Oull itself says something about Possibilities

[brittle siren]

Does Parvos and the Sister know that the Tenno is not just Warframe but also a child who controlling it?

[humble sierra]

Parvos probably

Sisters probably not (on account of how some of them are flirty)

[brittle siren]

Because
One of the Sister line is kidnapped us and throw in the basement 💀

[cinder locust]

<@&778745217037238293>

[brittle siren]

What did I do 😭

[cinder locust]

Wasn’t you, was a scam thing

[brittle siren]

Oh ok

[sage comet]

apparently I was told the dominous thrax himself doesn't have looping powers, rather the throne he sits on does, and the loop the drifter triggered in 1999 was also because of Albrecht Entrati's doing, at least that is what I was told

[lean garden]

by the same people no doubt

[sage comet]

so meaning, even Drifter doesn't exactly have looping capabilities unless given the allowance

[lean garden]

what the community server will vehemently argue is that drifter doesnt have any looping powers at all

[sage comet]

now that wouldn't be entirely true, he was still able to trigger a loop in 1999 nonetheless, though ofc it was because of Albrecht Entrati

[feral cape]

I will argue drifters looping powers are very weak and alone he can't do alot if anything with them

[candid loom]

Hey guys

You know how physical bodies are destroyed to create cephalons, right?

And Loid still exists in his human body , despite Necraloid being a thing.

What if, he created a carbon copy of himself, and used that one to make necraloid

[sly ibex]

That's one way to make them, but not necessarily the only way. They probably did have means to make them without killing people, but the Orokin were quite cruel in general.

[tall echo]

Says who

[dusk temple]

The Drifter and Amir in a KIM conversation.

They kill someone and upload their brain to a computer which they then turn into a Cephalon, then they dispose of the Cephalon’s former body.

The old golden lords had no shortcomings when it came to cruelty.

[tacit pagoda]

i just finished the hex finale and it was such a beautiful quest im so happy we were able to give them a second chance omg 😭

[thin moss]

I understand that the sentients gained sentience after going to Tau and that their void sensitivity and weakness might have been deliberate since the orokins wanted to keep a hold on them in case of malfunction

But uh, do we even know what they found or what found them in Tau that caused such a thing to happen ?

[modern steppe]

not necessarily mentioned, though it’s more along the lines of realization rather than them discovering something that makes them retaliate against the Orokin

[pallid spoke]

That's exactly what happened. They as thinking machines gained sentience over the course of their journey to Tau, and knew that the Orokin would bring ruin to Tau as they did with the Origin System.

This is directly said in both Ballas' Vitruvian logs and in Natah's monolouge in the Ropalolyst fight.

[tall echo]

The void weakness was an intentional part of their design to leave them stranded in tau
It did not work

[sly ibex]

I really wish we knew how they had that knowledge, honestly. They were unthinking and unaware when first sent to Tau, after all. They wouldn't have even become self-aware for a long time, right? So how did they have any idea about the Orokin other than what they were programmed with?

[lean garden]

So how did they have any idea about the Orokin other than what they were programmed with?
Because they'd likely have the context of why they were even a mission in the first place

[sly ibex]

Why? Context would be unnecessary for a machine.

[lean garden]

These's are thinking machines

[sly ibex]

They weren't capable of thought until later, so no context would have been needed in their original programming.

And even for later, there would have been no reason to necessarily include context. It's irrelevant to the task.

[lean garden]

its very relevant tho

[sly ibex]

Not really, not for what is being assigned the task.

[lean garden]

Who are you preparing Tau for?
The Orokin.
What do the Orokin like?
What they did to earth

[sly ibex]

Orokin were very "this is your task, carry it out, the reason doesn't matter."

[lean garden]

The very moment the Orokin themselves were included into the mix it opened the path for the Sentients to determine that they were the problem

[sly ibex]

And again, you don't need to give context to a machine that's given a specific task like terraforming. Context is entirely unnecessary for the mission.

[lean garden]

If the command was to "prepare" the system for the Orokin, knowing what the Orokin need is necessary

And then you need to know what Origin looked like, since thats the likely template for what Tau is to be transformed to

[sly ibex]

Knowing the kind biome(s), vegetation, etc... Sure. Knowing the why? Not relevant to the task.

[lean garden]

and then you compare the Orokin drain on resources to the sustainability of the system you are to create, and uh oh, theres a problem

[sly ibex]

They wouldn't even have needed to know that Earth no longer looked like however they wanted Tau to be.

[sly ibex]

They wouldn't need to know about how many resources the Orokin used for stuff, or even necessarily about anything else except "terraform this to these standards." Realistically, they wouldn't have even needed to know the name "Orokin."

[lean garden]

They wouldn't need to know about how many resources the Orokin used for stuff
You absolutely would if youre trying to create a system for them

like even irl city planning needs to know what and how residents utilise resources and facilities

[sly ibex]

That's irrelevant to the terraforming commands. Whatever specifications they have would not need any surrounding context. Computer programs don't need context to run how they are programmed to. Robots we have now don't need context for things outside of their assigned tasks.

[lean garden]

it should be no different for the transformation of a planet

[tall echo]

The sentients weren't unthinking terraforming machines, they had true AI from the start

[lean garden]

computer programmes would absolutely need to know what resources theyre running with

[sly ibex]

Generally, they don't. We figure out minimum requirements for stuff through trial and error. The program doesn't create the requirements on its own. We create both the games and the requirements to run them.

[lean garden]

especially since they're going to a system nigh blind

[lean garden]

We figure out minimum requirements for stuff through trial and error.
Great, now who's figuring this out? The Orokin waiting for the Sentients or the Sentients doing the work?

[sly ibex]

Were they thinking at the beginning? I don't recall that being said. I know they had the potential to be, which is why the Orokin almost executed their creator.

[tall echo]

The AI is why they were so rulebreaking

[lean garden]

Also like it would be absolutely crappy planning if the Sentients were given 0 capability to adjust to the real situation at Tau

[tall echo]

That and the adaptation

[lean garden]

which to note: they were absolutely planned for that capability, since its stated that the plan was for them to adapt to the host planet

The crossing to the Tau system is perilous. Adaptation and replication are the only way a terraforming journey can be made. They will build an interstellar rail as they travel, they will adapt to the host planet and prepare it for our arrival. They will save you.

[lean garden]

And when it completes its task, what will prevent it from turning against us, as the Seven Principles say?
As shown, the Orokin already pre-emptively assume that it would turn on them. Which shouldnt be the case if they had no capability for independent thought

[sly ibex]

The synthesis does not indicate they had any self-awareness at the start. I think the concern in that regard was the risk of it.

[lean garden]

Which indicates that from the get go the Orokin are already aware that they held the potential

regardless, the Sentients were made to adapt to the planet, meaning that static considerations of the planet definitely werent at play

meaning that the Sentients had more than just "turn X mountain into Y lake"

They needed to be able to do geological/terrain studies

meaning that they also would need to know what installation goes where to do what

for the purpose of a colony

[chrome frost]

is the fact that all grineer mutate into those doglike things when introduced to infestation lore relevant? Out of all the infested the only ones out of those who you can tell what they once were who walk on all 4s are infested grineer. Infested corpus walk on 2 legs, infested moa walk on 2 legs, yet infested grineer get twisted, their arms and legs getting an additional elbow if you could call it that and their head? not only is it turned 180 degreeze its also put in place where a grineer would normally have a chest

just for comparison

[lean garden]

Well, not particularly

[chrome frost]

oh ok

[lean garden]

Theres no indications of why they do that, or if in reality mutated biomass from grineer take different shapes

its just... like that

[chrome frost]

what if its because the armor is so heavy that when the infestation starts to mutate em the body fails to maintain balance and falls onto all 4s

[lean garden]

No clue, but keep in mind other grineer units exist

[chrome frost]

yeah i know but i am talking about lancers specifically, because all of the infested grineer we get to see seem to be ex lancers

[dusk temple]

The grineer are also just genetic copies of each other. They have been for a while which is why the lancers end up looking like this. Juggernauts might be a different type of grineer infested. No clue tho.

[stray herald]

Maybe just a design choice thing from the devs rather than a lore thing

[restive river]

They often times think of the lore when designing things, often for gameplay

[pallid spoke]

IIRC, there is an Infested Grineer Hellion variant that is on two legs instead of all fours.

Ah yeah, the Undying Flyer, forgot it's name.

This... thing.

[somber adder]

So we’re basically confirmed to be going to Tau lol

I wonder what we’ll be doing there story-wise

[restive river]

Not really?

Nothing has actually confirmed Tau is the next place we’re going
We still have no motive other than if Albrecht went there
Which we don’t know how he would even get there
Nor do we have a method of getting there

All that’s “basically confirmed” is something something the sun something something sentients
It could be Narmer
It could be a Praghasa node
It could be Tau

[somber adder]

You are so damn annoying always

[silk atlas]

cough

[somber adder]

My cognitive dissonance allows me to ignore that

(Jk I was just wrong)

[silk atlas]

I'd be more inclined to call Ducky the no-fun police if it wasn't for the fact DE has already has said Tau stuff isn't in the cards flat out already

[somber adder]

Wasn’t that in like 2023 though?

Might’ve changed

Regardless I don’t care to argue right now, I was wrong :P

[silk atlas]

Nah, only last year. Even then, it took how long to get to TNW so it wouldn't be quick

[sage moat]

guys,
loTus eaters
the wAcky hacky 9000 (the hex)
isleweaUver

tau confirmed

praghasa node would be cool though. i figure the tennocon reveal will be bigger though

[smoky mango]

While I understand that our last adventure was 1999 and we've been for a while following on Albrecht, I don't see why there can't be a detour? It's true that many things surrounding him are still a mystery and all, but in my opinion, we should realize that the whole "Albrecht + Wally saga" is currently looking more like the (probably will never come) ending of the game. The sentients are pretty important, yes, but on a scale of danger level, I would say the sentients are just another faction who's more dangerous than the others, yet slightly less dangerous than Wally. I don't think we're supposed to keep chasing this storyline all the time, I think we're meant to get a few from Albrecht, and then follow it up with something else, to then later return to Albrecht.

Nothing has been confirmed about Tau, but it's really looking like it. They've already said it's a pretty chonky update coming up next, I don't think a single node would cut it, in my honest opinion I really do believe we're heading to Tau, and we might get both Narmer and ye ol' regular sentients, who knows; but I really think we're leaving the Origin System and I'm honestly thankful for it.

Just to reiterate, I personally don't think we're meant to follow Albrecht from now on everywhere, but who's to say I guess. Our reason for heading to Tau will most likely be Pazuul if I had to guess, maybe Hunhow, but as of right now we can only speculate; there's many characters in Warframe aside from the latest introduced-

[sly pagoda]

Also reminder that a rip into the void was opened at the end of TNW. Maybe that is still open and we are going elsewhere in the void.

[proper barn]

I think we will go there just not soon.

[smoky mango]

can you refresh my memory about that? been like forever since I did the quests 😞

[restive river]

Rude

[sly pagoda]

The very end after Ballas gets deaded and wally shows up in wall form and protects the Operator/Drifter.

[smoky mango]

Like the Praghasa eating the sun moment? The hole it leaves there?

[proper barn]

Well that was kinda fixed by narmer but I do think we will mess with the sun cuz like pargasa ate some of it

Just a little nibble.