lore-discussion

[restive river]

At least the Orokin kept bees around somehow

[brittle siren]

yeah DE really put Wally into God category a lot in this update

[restive river]

Probably modified them to be yellow and white

[restive river]

Yeah, but we have to keep in mind that everyone who’s said he’s a god doesn’t know what he really is

[brittle siren]

or this

[restive river]

Or they’re just afraid cause of his power
Including the Drifter

Thrax, Velimir, Minerva, Lettie and the Drifter call him a god
Known of them know what he actually is and absolutely fear him

I see it as similar to the Orokin
Just cause they seem like gods does not mean they’re gods.

[brittle siren]

well Wally can just bend reality in a certain way he wanted, not as powerful as the real void could do though

[restive river]

I don’t think he can really bend it anymore than anyone else, he just knows how to

Like
The void reacts to emotions and concepts, if either are big enough and if you have control you could do anything
Doesn’t make you a god

[brittle siren]

true

he kinda herald of chaos imo

[restive river]

Chaos, entropy, nothingness

Bro wants the void to go back to how it was
Nothing
He probably wants to go back to being nothing OR to be a real something

Either or tbh

[brittle siren]

Imagine us somehow make another void entity that born with love

[restive river]

Cause before Albrecht he would be like the rest of the void

[brittle siren]

that may counter Wally

[restive river]

Imagine we’re that entity

Tbh if we make a third version of ourselves that’s a being of love that’d be neat
Cause
We already have 2 other instances of 3 beings as 1 :]

[tall echo]

Imagine dragons

[restive river]

Imagine chroma

[brittle siren]

I wonder if the Void have mind, what does it feel about Wally

[restive river]

From what the Orokin found the void was a nothing

[tall echo]

Hence the name

[vocal remnant]

Doesnt Rusalka say "I thrive in nothingness, you choke"?

[shell spear]

what if Rusalka is jesus

and the reason why she can shift like Wally is cuz she is his kid and Wally put the kid in Minerva

[lean garden]

wuh?

[lean garden]

you uh, didnt actually do any of the KIM with V and M did you

[shell spear]

I did the first time they were out

[lean garden]

Because its very forward about how they found neci

-# She's adopted

<@&778745217037238293>

[sly pagoda]

I think as long as you have never reset you can open someone's name in KIM and click the clock button and it brings up the chatlog 🙂

[lean garden]

Neci can shift like wally not because she's somehow his son, but because he's possessing her

[rotund current]

The infested from its own perspective is such an interesting thing. We can see mutating things and turning things mad but it also helps us and assists us and would mostly likely aid us if asked. Yet it doesn't see anything it's doing as awful. It sees what it is doing as inviting others into its own existence and to its credit they do seem to retain some semblance of themselves for atleast a while if they are infested with helminth. Helminth is the only strand that seems to retain their consciousness yet the rest of the strands seem to completely rid any thought or individuality from the host.

The prelate strand has them keep their intelligence intact but their individuality is all but gone

[unique talon]

So the infestation has multidimensional minds? Like Lizzie knows what happens in her universe with the techrott but also in our solar system with the infestation

[strange plinth]

same system, different times
but somewhat, yeah, lizzie/the helminth doesn't seem to be affected by time

lizzie comments on it if you reset memories

[strange turtle]

Not a different universe, just the past of ours

[runic bronze]

got that one Eleanor chat and now im actually curious

what would Mara mean in voidtongue

my best guess is that Mara Lohk might mean void child(child of the void)/ void-kin

[strange plinth]

"child" or "demon" are the leading theories
i lean more on the former personally

[runic bronze]

since its refering to us

[runic bronze]

yeah i feel like it dosent make sense for the indiference to call us a demon when that's a derogatory name that was made because were a void thingy

like that's something made by things in this world to define us (especially with the infected cuz the second they get vocal chords they immediately go for DEMON)

[strange plinth]

yup, plus the cavia call us 'mara lohk'
which. even if wally is calling us a demon for whatever reason, why would they call us that?

[runic bronze]

also another thing that's extremely obvious

KIDDO

[strange plinth]

though, i did hear a comparison brought up between the tenno and void angels being, well, very different things, potentially creating that angel/demon divide

[humble sierra]

Additionally the Lotus Eaters soundtrack has the lyrics "Ilve Ilve Mara", and "Amare Jeliira". We know Jeliira means "heart" when the provided translations of the Whispers soundtrack. Considering the Lotus Eaters track is likely being sung by Lotus (or at least meant to represent her feelings), it makes sense for it to be child, since she calls us "my child" during important moments.

[runic bronze]

💖

everytime i get reminded about Lotus Eaters my heart explodes

so Ilve would probably mean My/Mine or smthn

[humble sierra]

Ngl it's weird DE is dancing around "Mara"'s meaning so much, there's so much pointing it to be "Child" (and evidence for demon too, I suppose) that at this point I'm half expecting it to mean something else entirely, because why wouldn't they have revealed it by now? Why have this new chat with Eleanor that teases us?

[runic bronze]

i feel like it's probably being held back for a big moment

yk no confirmation untill an epic cutscene where we finaly understand Wally more
-# (yk less freaky cryptid jumpscare chats and more actual dialouge)

[chrome rivet]

Is there a reason why Mathila is the one Emotion that serves as the comms guy aside from Thrax during OP Eight Claw?

I can see why no Sithel

But where are the others?

[strange plinth]

there was a "crack in her mind" that let wally in
likely her husband, garmi, as his death was directly related to wally, he was keeping "it" away and disappeared during(?) the rain of chains

[lean garden]

which is another blow to the wally apologists lol

"yea wally aint evil, he's just using trauma he inflicted on one person to attempt to inflict more trauma on a different person he already traumatised"

[chrome rivet]

So, that caused her to be...less happy-go-lucky during Eight Claw???

Like, she's more normal during this

[runic bronze]

we gotta teach people two statements can be right at the same time
-# (wally is extremely traumatised/ but is also a massive psychopath)

[runic bronze]

i mean i havent really heard her talk all that much given ive mostly heard Dominus Brat talking in my ear/Rusally screaming about something so i couldnt tell

[strange plinth]

her only line i can remember is "she's got me making weapons" lol
i'd guess she's been rewritten to an extent?

[runic bronze]

i dont think she's been rewriten as much as she's upset

i just did a joy spiral recently and it dosent seem ooc

she's a toxic positive mom all the way including the meltdowns

might be because she dosent talk alot so we cant really hear her quirks all that much

also kinda unrelated but im guessing once the event is over a portal to/isleweaver island itself is gonna show up during Joy and Envy spirals then

[unique talon]

Besides umbra, maybe oraxia, ivara prime and xaku prime

[runic bronze]

?

[strange plinth]

the isleweaver node is staying, its just thrax that's leaving

[unique talon]

Is there any other Warframe that is still alive?

[runic bronze]

ohhhh

[runic bronze]

Stalker

[strange plinth]

kullervo

[unique talon]

Is Xaku still alive? Or the void has taken him ?

[strange plinth]

unknown, and them*

[runic bronze]

Xaku is MIA as far as we know

[unique talon]

Now I understand why the entrati family has no special interactions with Dagath or Xaku prime, their memories are fading away due the infestation

[runic bronze]

actually Xaku Prime is such an anomaly especially given we got no explenation to how that happened

[strange turtle]

Xichun

[unique talon]

Prime anomaly? Confused

[runic bronze]

Girl with hat

[strange plinth]

not sure what you mean with xaku prime and ivara prime, though
afaik they're lost or dead like the rest

[runic bronze]

like for example we know Lavos kinda willed his prime into being, but Xaku is like a few or more warframes that got yeeted into the void and fused together when they got out

[unique talon]

Drussus said that ivara is still alive after her fight with the Warframe hunter

[runic bronze]

so a prime version of Xaku confused me
(them not getting a trailer was hurtful too💔 )

omg my Oraxia finaly finished building

[strange plinth]

xaku is three frames that were lost on entrati void expeditions, and their prime has an entrati motif, its prolly just albrecht priming what fused and came back

[strange plinth]

that doesn't mean that that ivara remained alive, especially considering that leverian takes place before the collapse

[unique talon]

At this rate sevagoth prime too, apparently that was his original form before he went lost to the void, that corrupted his form due longer exposition

[unique talon]

You mean the "night of Naga drums"?

[strange plinth]

the collapse followed the drums, but yeah, that would've been more specific

[unique talon]

One thing I found funny in warframe is the difference between gameplay and actual lore

In some GamePlays or trailers I always see Nova being dead

Or killed

I thought the Warframes were supposed to be "God like"

[tall echo]

They're extremely good weapons but not that

[strange plinth]

atlas punching an asteroid, chroma being "one of the most powerful," etc

[tall echo]

(*atlas didn't just punch the asteroid)

[unique talon]

Proceed to get killed by an explosive trap

[misty shoal]

Consider this: we never need to make a new copy of a warframe. Even if they become temporarily non-functional, they seem unfathomably durable.

[unique talon]

Bro wisp can open a portal through the sun and still I see her head as a trophy by stalker

[strange plinth]

(yeah, but it is funnier to just say he punched an asteroid)

[misty shoal]

The element of surprise should not be underestimated.

[tall echo]

The stalker is also a warframe

[strange plinth]

the helminth does repair and take care of our frames when they're not in use

[misty shoal]

Yeah it does repair. Not replacement, so it is never damaged badly enough that it’s “totaled”

[unique talon]

By the way, canonically where does our operator keep his warframes, necramechs, weapons and other gears?

Like bro I have two necramechs, thousands of guns and melees, almost 30 Warframes

And I thought to myself: "where bro keeps all that?"

Void wallet or something like that?

[misty shoal]

My headcanon is that it uses the void in a very limited way as extra space

[strange plinth]

some void storage shenanigans iirc
or the orbiter is fairly large, we don't see a good amount of it

[misty shoal]

Orbiter? I barely know her.

[tall echo]

Ha. Ha.

[tall echo]

Arsenal

[unique talon]

I still live in my old orbital as usual, I even bought a necramite to help ordis take care of my ship

[unique talon]

yea I know, but what I mean is a certain storage to keep all of that

And drifter's speech makes me question that even more

"got all your Warframes back?"

[tall echo]

The orbiter is gigantic

[lean garden]

With regards to what you said later, the ivara in the leverian isnt the same as ivara prime

and for that matter Xaku prime aint an anomaly, nothing stops a certain itchy entrati from making xaku prime based off xaku

[unique talon]

I thought ballas and Albrecht were the only ones capable of making warfeames and primes

[graceful swan]

Erra and Silvana made frames

[unique talon]

Silvana?

[wraith lotus]

Based on Eternalism, yall think we could get a Warframe based on Ordan Karris?

[unique talon]

Erra Made, Caliban if I'm not mistaken (with ballas help obviously)

[tall echo]

Without

[tall echo]

Silver grove quest

[tall echo]

What

[graceful swan]

No, because that's not how Eternalism works

[unique talon]

Based on the eternalism theory

[tall echo]

No

[wraith lotus]

Aww

[unique talon]

A prime version for Caliban or a Warframe based on the murmur would be possible?

[graceful swan]

Eternalism isn't just I want something to be so it will be

[tall echo]

If it needs eternalism to work it doesn't work

[tall echo]

That being said, caliban prime is inevitable

[unique talon]

And they say fnaf lore Is complex

[graceful swan]

Eternalism isn't hard to understand players just misuse it

Everyone forgets the keyword of theoretically

[tall echo]

It's easy to get if you know what "theoretically" means

[graceful swan]

In-game we have only seen it used twice

Players try using it for everything

I prefer CE to Eternalism

[wraith lotus]

Whats CE?

[graceful swan]

Conceptual Embodiment

[wraith lotus]

Oh

[humble sierra]

All Warframes will receive Primes. If it doesn't make sense, they'll find a way to explain it. Revenant, Xaku, etc.

[humble sierra]

Yeah a lot of people assume Eternalism is just a generic multiverse thing but it's a bit more like Schroedinger's Cat. It's less "everything is possible" and "all possibilities are true".

[lean garden]

which entrati do you think Im referring to here lol

[silk atlas]

There isn't even anything stopping Xaku from getting a Prime in-lore, it just takes a few seconds of remembering that they're still from the Old War

It was literally only Revenant

[sage moat]

voidy woidy

i have theories about temple prime that will hopefully be confirmed in uhhhhhh 5 years?

[humble sierra]

Go on...

[tribal cape]

Actually, why is Operator/Drifter resistant to Infestation and not just warframes?

[lean garden]

Op/Drifter full of the stuff infestation aint like

[graceful swan]

Warframes arent immune they are already infested

The operator has Void powers making them immune

[tribal cape]

Okay, but why Void powers would make them immune?

[vivid cypress]

wouldn't the time loop also consider them "immune" since it's just loop back to the time where they weren't infected?

[graceful swan]

Because it’s a piece of Wally

[tribal cape]

Speaking of Wally, why Murmur can get turned into Orokin Corrupted? Isn't Murmur basically "parts" of Wally?

[graceful swan]

Infestation can't consume the Void

[graceful swan]

Gameplay vs lore

[tribal cape]

Boohoo

If I get to question Helminth or Lizzie I'd be worse than Amir

[lean garden]

I mean yea, if someone got infected after the loops start then sure, but its not like drifter and operator are constantly timelooping themselves

[warm epoch]

do the original warframes still exist?

[graceful swan]

No, they were killed

[warm epoch]

what abt umbra?

[glossy dew]

Wait really?

[lean garden]

The original one went boom remember

[warm epoch]

i dont pay attention to lore

[glossy dew]

I thought they just disappeared, like the narrator from the intro states

[warm epoch]

wdym

[graceful swan]

“The Warframes... all of them... failures. Surprised? They turned on us, just as you did. And so we had no choice but to commit them... to grave.”

[glossy dew]

Oh

[steel compass]

bro's been spamming 3 trying to get the keys lmao

does he know he can bullet jump?

[proper barn]

@lean garden @warm epoch well Umbra died recently. He was trapped in the moon until second dream.

[lean garden]

well yea, still died tho

which is what I said

[proper barn]

@glossy dew oh also Kullevro was a original that didn't (die). @warm epoch

I think he's the only gen 1 left.

[graceful swan]

Stalker may also be a Gen 1 but not confirmed

[proper barn]

Didn't mena you @ you Nemesis

Meant to @ @lean garden

[graceful swan]

lol

It’s fine

[lean garden]

Oraxia might be an pre-tenno one as well

[proper barn]

Kullevro we know for sure. For Oraxia it's werid cuz Albretch's timeline isn't the most clear.

[lean garden]

Well he was around when the pre-tennos were around

[limpid grove]

With Alad v 's fate unkown who are leading the Corpus Amalgam?

[tall echo]

Lore-wise the amalgams no longer exist

[limpid grove]

oh? really? even with them still popping up on Jupiter?

[tall echo]

Well salad's partnership with the sentients ended, so there should be no way to make more

[woven coyote]

Planets arent really constant with the timeline
Tyl regor for example

[tall echo]

Tyl regor is peak example

[limpid grove]

true, so should i just pretend any enemies in the corpus gas city Tileset are just normal Corpus?

[tall echo]

I guess that's one option

[graceful swan]

Define normal

[limpid grove]

Uh corpus crewmen that are not hyberized with Sentient tech?

[tall echo]

Greedy and unmutated

[limpid grove]

yes that

and following papa Parvos

[tall echo]

Not necessarily

[graceful swan]

Even with Amalgams there’s still more regular Corpus to them

[tall echo]

The corpus has factions

Parvos' corpus is found on the obelisk tileset, anyo's in the vallis, etc

Then there's the ancient "corpus walker" faction which is exclusively occupied by pre-moa moas that spawn in one infested corpus ship tile

-# They can't be scanned into the codex, I tried

If the old corpus had ospreys, would they have been called flyers

[graceful swan]

Does this mean Cephalon Scrap has a limitation to scanning things?

[limpid grove]

lol

So lorewise what sub faction of Corpus occupy Jupiter gas cities?

[tall echo]

It means ordis refuses to save them to the codex

[limpid grove]

currently i mean

[tall echo]

Whoever took over alad's if he died

Which is surprisingly unlikely

[limpid grove]

got cha

[tall echo]

I hope his ability to evade death becomes either a running gag or a plot point at some point

[graceful swan]

People assume Alad was on the ship giving orders when somehow he was given permission to control a whole fleet

[tall echo]

Alad has secretly been inhaling airborne kuva and specter particles and became immortal

[rich stump]

Somehow, Palpatine Alad V returned

[graceful swan]

DE have only killed off 2 characters permanently

[tall echo]

Regor and

[graceful swan]

Others have returned some way or other

[tall echo]

Uh

[graceful swan]

Queen and Ballas

[tall echo]

Right

[graceful swan]

Regor returned for that one mission

[tall echo]

Which is accessible before the quest where he dies

[feral cape]

Your forgetting someone

[tall echo]

You're

[feral cape]

Yorue

[tall echo]

Yeet

[graceful swan]

Is Cephalon Scraps coding just being spelling police?

[tall echo]

Nah that's independent

[feral cape]

Anywho rell is also dead

Also like technically every executor introduced plus alarez but only one of them is mentioned in gameplay

[tall echo]

Wouldn't count characters that die before the story

[unique talon]

May sound funny

But some Warframe designs aspects draws my attention and make me wonder: "ballas, just why?"

Is there any lore explanation behind why frames like wisp or yareli prime have big ASSets?

[rich stump]

They had them before becoming warframes

[humble sierra]

Tyanna Pass/Citrine? It could technically be set before Natah (and when we kill him)

[feral cape]

Hes called ballASS for reason

Ignore the balls part thats not relevant

[humble sierra]

Literally for sex appeal. The Orokin had enough control over their appearance to make them look how they wanted, but presumably they didn't for most Warframes.

[unique talon]

Hope we have these in the future

Not the blue skin part, obviously

[humble sierra]

Blue skin would be peak actually

[graceful swan]

Which is why I said others have returned in some way or other

[restive river]

Orokin spotted

[humble sierra]

Hey, I'm not an Orokin, I just think having blue skin and a long arm would be cool! Oh, btw, wanna hear my plans about constantly terraforming the planets and stripping them of their resources until they're barely livable? I also think I should create a robotic species with a consciousness to go to another universe with intent to strip that too, only for them to turn on me, in which case I use a bioweapon to turn (mostly lower-class (btw I make the class hierarchy too), mostly unwilling) people into monstrous war machines.

[rich stump]

Ballas spotted

[eager dragon]

Average Stellaris player

[limpid grove]

Why are there so many crashed Corpus ships and Cruisers on Europa?

[graceful swan]

Was originally Corpus controlled
Then the Infestation said mine now

[limpid grove]

huh

[graceful swan]

Corpus ships because Corpus
Got Infested by Infestation

[restive river]

A single spore is all it’s takes

[graceful swan]

Normally I’d say spreads like a plague but it would be more accurate to say spreads as a plague

[tall echo]

Europa is still corpus controlled

And the crashed ships are uninfested

[graceful swan]

Guess this is all they want to tell us

“The icy moon of Jupiter, known as Europa, is home to one of the largest crash sites of the modern war. The scattered remains of a vast Corpus Obelisk litters the snowy landscape while the above wages on. On the otherwise lifeless surface, Corpus crew work to recover lost assets, tunneling their way through the glacial interior and restoring any and all salvageable items until financial losses are recouped.”

[dusk temple]

Okay, question. If Warframes are made by ||corrupting a human with the Helminth strain of the Infestation||, how does the ||Operator|| make them? Gameplay-wise it makes sense. Lore-wise, I’m confused.

[graceful swan]

Foundry 3D printing

[normal mountain]

Iirc, we basically 3D print Infested material donated by the Helminth into the desired Warframe

[graceful swan]

We even have the flesh installed on board

[tall echo]

We're not making them from humans. The orokin did

[dusk temple]

Huh. That kind of makes sense.

[tall echo]

Discord is 13+, you're clearly too young to be here

[fallow veldt]

Irl lore

[thorn meadow]

<@&778745217037238293>

I forgot we could do that

[bronze field]

[limpid grove]

why some crewmen have scary glowing eyes? cybernetics/mind control or?

[tall echo]

Just odd graphics

[limpid grove]

damn

[tall echo]

I just didn't want to bother the mods for something so childish

[humble sierra]

Likely just wacky lighting but Cybernetic eye implants would be a good headcanon

[low robin]

guess it's a way to learn the Ostron numbers lol

[jade fog]

What if

Helminth charger

But adversaries

Draining a cyst into an enemy super soldier sounds fun and disgusting

[tall echo]

Coda

[jade fog]

Double infested

[normal mountain]

So, 'seer' means 'five' in Ostron
Almost makes me wonder what that means for Vor's pistol

[hexed oxide]

it's a subtle nod to the fact that it has an ammo pool of 210, a multiple of 5

[silk atlas]

It also has 5 cc

[hexed oxide]

-# a

[worldly nimbus]

So, Rusalka in Isleweaver has a couple of lines during the boss that are something like, "My herald looked like you once," and "This is your future!" Alongside a few lines during the various bounties talking about how the main Tenno is special and it is a shame what happened to the other versions of the Operator. This has really had me questioning what this means. Here's a few theories:

• The Murmur are simply bastardized versions of humanity as Wally has tried to understand them. See the __Anatomize__r (to break into parts). This disregards the "This is your future," line, so I'm not a huge fan of this one.
• The Murmur are Wally's failed attempts to create some sort of human-like form/ally. Arms, legs, spine, and now a mouth in Isleweaver. "It looked like you once," is more like, "It had the same shape as you once." Once again, doesn't make much sense with Rusalka's lines during the Duet Fragmented fight.
• (My current favorite) The Murmur are either Void corrupted people, Void corrupted Tenno (making the 'look like you' and 'future' lines referring to other humans who were consumed by the Void), or even the other versions of the Operator that were felled during the Zariman deal. This one is the one I'm currently happiest with, considering the story is really pushing for the player Tenno to be The Tenno, so it would be a really interesting plothook for an entirely enemy faction to be composed of the Infinite minus 2 versions of The Tenno taken as collateral during the deal. Even if they aren't the other versions of our Operator, in general, having a faction that were humans/Tenno corrupted by the Void would still be really sick

[glacial bough]

The Murmur are explicitly Wally playing around with human forms

[worldly nimbus]

I mean, yeah, but I’m more referring to what they’re made out of and, minorly, their purpose as Wally’s ‘invasion’ force. Like, why are they in particular the ones it chose to be the ‘scouting force’ for lack of a better term.

Also, with the new lines added in Isleweaver that I mentioned in the original post, it throws a wrench into the idea that the Murmur are simply Void molded into human-like shapes. I really do think they’re more than just solidified void energy, or at least were.

[ocean mason]

gravity

[unique talon]

Roger roger

https://tenor.com/view/roger-roger-gif-25596264

[viscid aspen]

Guys hear me out

• Tennocon marketing is always themed around the big update. This year it's themed around the/a solar system
• "Riftguard" syandana and solar system-themed sigil in Digital Pack
• Solar system-themed merch
• Sentient-themed armor set as twitch drop
• Sentiend-themed relay event
• Ominous shot of the sun with a massive sunspot(?) at the end of the Tennocon trailer
• No quests this year (so far) despite nearly identical content output as last year, so they're all hands on deck on more important stuff
• 10th Tennocon anniversary, so very important. Social media accounts posting retrospective stuff about our journey
• Rebb extra nervous in livestreams whenever Tennocon is mentioned
• "Tau is in sight"

We are so going to Tau soon

[tall echo]

Unlikely to happen during the void war arc but maybe after

[viscid aspen]

My guess is at the very least the void war arc ends with us going/preparing to go to Tau just like the Man in the Wall appeared at the end of the new war arc

[silk atlas]

Rip can't send the link to the interview here

[quartz condor]

Can someone explain to me what clem is?

[sage moat]

i love you people

tau theorists are the most fun people in this community and i will never believe them.

itll happen some day! and i won't believe them until it does. then it'll be egg on my face

on a different topic,
What are we thinking about the secret you get from the isleweaver fragments?

[dire mountain]

Tau is real 2026

[sage moat]

hoenn confirmed

[dire mountain]

L is real 2401

[sage moat]

just read the isleweaver fragments and luckily i don't think its too vague but im gonna need all of you who were like "erm the indifference is a misnomer cause he's not indifferent" to first apologize and then learn reading comprehension

[dire mountain]

Anansi..

[viscid aspen]

Shes referring to the backroom no?

[restive river]

I believe she is yes

The main thing there is no tau

“Tau is not in the plan for the foreseeable future”
Meaning no Tau
Ofc she could be lying

The main thing ofc is
We have no actual reason to go to Tau presently
“Tau in sight” could easily be a phrase, we just don’t know if Albrecht really went there or how

If Tau is planned I doubt it’s this year
They said Isleweaver was the biggest update of the year iirc so whatever is revealed will either launch at the end of this year or at the start of next year

Akin to Duviri

[blissful merlin]

Tbf they just said “warframe next major update” not the only major update to release this year

[cunning tapir]

I think the next update involves the sun, Sol.

Pragassa did omnom the sun a bit and with the Tennocon 2025 seeming to revolve around the solar system. It feels like the Sun is going to be the central piece.
Could be likely Murmur are going to burst from the sun.
(Wisp-sweating-in-sun-portal.jpg)

[proper barn]

It's probably a year ot two out. I think we will fight the 3rd Orb to try to stop Pazuul rebuilding the solar rail.

Before we actually go to tau. @viscid aspen

[proper barn]

Wasn't it 1 person?

[proper barn]

My theory has always been Pazuul is trying to rebuild the solar rail to tau. Well our side. It would be funny if he rebuilds it and then the tau side is off or destroyed.

[viscid aspen]

Pazuul lowkey pmo he shouldve been a boss in a New War aftermath type quest instead of what they did with him. Didnt even know he was a thing until i dived in the wiki

[proper barn]

That would be so funny.

But yeah the Origin System side of The tau solar rail was destroyed by Hunhow.

[sage moat]

i've heard it a few times but if that was all by one person then sure i still think they need to learn to read

my thing with "tau is in sight" is that no way that's just a phrase

[proper barn]

I stand by what I just said. 3rd Orb dealing with narmer and Pazuul and then Tau later.

Not right now.

[sage moat]

like in universe, sure, that could reasonably be a phrase. but think about that from a writer's perspective. you don''t just write that . if you do you are willingly misleading your audience

which like, sure, they could be willingly misleading us, but i think if they were it would be given more significance. like how in TNW arc there were several quests where we were meant to believe the lotus may have become a villain

i could see tau being teased at the end of the void war story arc. same way wally was teased in the new war's finale

[restive river]

They said Isleweaver was the biggest update of the year

[blissful merlin]

Was one of the biggest updates of the year. Not THE biggest update of the year.

[restive river]

I recall them saying it was the biggest update of the year?

[blissful merlin]

I can’t seem to find them saying that. But if you have a quote of it I’d love it! Would like to have all the correct facts haha.

[restive river]

I know they said it on one of the streams but
Not having luck finding it cause those are so long and spread out :p

But I know that’s what I heard from the devs
I wish there was a good recap of streams and shorts

[foggy crag]

Yo

Can someone add me on discord

[marsh mango]

good day
is it ever stated where exactly rusalka comes from or am i free to make up a vaguely slavic name
i understand wf1999 is set on a fictionalized earth

[lean garden]

Im not sure where youre going with this, but uh, how would Along Came A Spider frame the Indifference as not a "misnomer"? Like whats the characterisation you think is being portrayed here?

[sage moat]

its not called The Indifferent

its the indifference. it represents the concept of indifference

[foggy crag]

Yo

[sage moat]

and indifference is NOT indifferent. numbness, the lack of emotion, indifference is a deeply malicious thing

[foggy crag]

Anyone add me please

[feral cape]

Gang that feels suspicious as

[lean garden]

sorry Im being slightly thrown off by the punctuation. are you saying Indifferent is numbness, lack of emotion. Or are saying Indifference is numbness lack of emotion

[feral cape]

Nobody is doing that

[lean garden]

i feel like this is a #squad-recruitment issue not a #lore-discussion issue

[foggy crag]

no one texted in it

[sage moat]

being indifferent is being numb and having a lack of emotion

at least how i see it

[lean garden]

yea then its just the punctuation taking me for a ride lol

[sage moat]

or that's the pitch at least. much like in warframe no one who claims to be indifferent genuinely is

[marsh mango]

adding on, is scaldra’s nature ever expounded beyond “they’re an army and they wanna eradicate the techrot”

asking because i’m writing something non-canon but would prefer not to diverge from established lore

[lean garden]

"theyre pocket mercs for an oligarch backed shadow organisation"

[sage moat]

we love fanfic writers around these parts. so a little! rusalka is from some war-torn country i believe, a war orphan adopted by minerva and velimir.
the scaldra are more a militarized cult than a traditional army and bau is correct there is an oligarch-backed shadow organization funding them

[marsh mango]

very fun
i’m assuming they have connections to actual government in
wherever höllvania is then

[lean garden]

kinda

[marsh mango]

ahhh
i see
i have blindspots there as i have not yet unlocked the round table
thanks both

[sage moat]

np

[marsh mango]

well that changes plans quite a bit
but thank you

[sage moat]

the isleweaver fragments also seem to imply rusalka struggled with nihilism for large parts of her life, maybe as a result of a certain void entity's meddling. so do with that what you will

she always found comfort in those around her but circumstances ended up taking everything from her

got neci might be my new favorite character isleweaver is great

[marsh mango]

i think i got that part down, or close enough, anyway

i will be sure to get to the round table before i end up committing to any invented lore on her part

[lean garden]

scrolling back, wouldnt then the name be ironic, if it isnt a misnomer? The entity meant to be representing the concept of indifference is anything but. It takes interest in things, its certainly not apathetic and it definitely is biased as hell

[sage moat]

oh its for sure ironic

[sharp heron]

i wonder if the bodies we find of ||Velemir ||||minerva || and ||loid|| real or just creted from neci imagination

[sage moat]

its the void, so, both

[sharp heron]

fair enough

[lean garden]

if anything the only way I can imagine wally being true to the Indifference name is by virtue of what might happen to someone when wally comes a possessing, in that they are "indifferent" by way of being rendered hollow/nothing/a husk

[sage moat]

the being representing indifference is not indifferent --- which i think is a really potent message about indifference irl.

[lean garden]

in which it is a b*tchless ideology

[sharp heron]

i mean indifference is a wall people put up to not get hurt imo so yeah make sense

[lean garden]

that piece of doodoo wall man is doing the most hurting

[sage moat]

well also note that it seems the way he gets into people (except mathila, to our knowledge) is when they shut away their emotions. attempting to become numb or indifferent leads to his possession.
At least, that's what happened with rusalka

moreso id say that that's what leads to deals being made with him but admittedly that doesn't quite track with the operator

there's a reading that when we made the deal with wally, we were shutting out our emotions since the operator doesn't really seem to be all too saddened by their parents going insane

i just don't think its super valid

[dire mountain]

Even with Mathila she had shut away anything to do with Garmi

[stiff fable]

Yeah the Operator isn't locking themselves away in that scene

[sage moat]

oh true

[stiff fable]

The Drifter very much is by the time Duviri Paradox happens but that's different

[lean garden]

which means the name even more so is not a description of wally's own character, because his victims be more indifferent that he is lol

wally on his loser behavior

[sage moat]

yes! it is not a description of wally's character, but rather what he represents

[sharp heron]

wait are the orowyrm's people that got "possessed" by wally?

[stiff fable]

No

[sage moat]

it would be the opposite if anything, they turn into orowyrms when their emotions run rampant, which seems to be the opposite of what lets wally "in"

[stiff fable]

They're storybook characters that are metaphors for how emotions go out of control

[sharp heron]

i know that that's why i'm confused

why is mathila mentionned here then

[sage moat]

there's a line from rusalka/wally in isleweaver that goes something like "Nobody tell Mathila that it was HER that let me in." or something like that

[stiff fable]

Yeah, Wally got into Duviri through Mathila

After trying for like a thousand years

[sharp heron]

oooh ok must've missed that one/don't rememeber it thanks

[sage moat]

i just got a big stupid grin on my face thinking about drifter taking all 5 orowyrms into a giant battle as operator beats up wally in the form of a vessel. void war will go hard i believe

give it like 5 years. maybe less im not sure

[sharp heron]

imagine it ends by the drifter cutting of his finger and time traveling ending up beeing entrati 😂

[sage moat]

my drifter is a girl tho

at least... for now 🤔

[stiff fable]

Inb4 it ends up just being the tower climbing sections from Catherine

To beat a wall you have to climb it

[sharp heron]

if we assume the canon is from the trailers the ddrifter is a dude but that's assuming there's a canon

[stiff fable]

There isn't

[sage moat]

its entirely up to player choice yeah

drifter is a guy in the duviri trailer and quest start because they can't exactly ask you for character customization before the quest starts

assuming the void war and new war are approximately the same length, irl timeline wise.
2029 seems to be when the finale will drop 🤔

well. depending on when you count the start as

[strange plinth]

tbf, the end of the new war arc was also delayed repeatedly
so you might be able to knock a year or two off of that

[proper barn]

and the operator is a girl so

gender fluid tenno comfirmed.

you all are now infected.

[marsh mango]

transceptual embodiment

[proper barn]

I mean if you want. A conversation with quick does confirm the Drifter/Operators gender expression is whatever they want it to be whenever they want it to.

[marsh mango]

Quick?

[proper barn]

Quincy.

Auto correct.

[stray herald]

so, the hex is still trapped but only Kaya is able to leave 1999

is that right?

[strange plinth]

yeah basically
kaya still has to return whenever the loop resets, though
same would apply to any others that she might figure out how to take with her
||though amir and kaya sent a bomb-strapped roomba through a time portal, so||

[graceful swan]

Others can if they listen to Kaya

[stray herald]

do all hex members forget when the loop happens?

[strange plinth]

at least one of the new convos has something about that i think? but i haven't seen it myself

[graceful swan]

Not all forget

See Lizzie

[stray herald]

hmm, not much to go at for the next story arc

[graceful swan]

Might be Tau for next arc

[spice jewel]

Murmur expelled. Tau is in sight.

[stray herald]

how far is the murmur's reach

[graceful swan]

Labs
Duviri
Probably other places in Void
1999
Zariman technically

[north jolt]

Arm's length

[graceful swan]

Real

[strange turtle]

I thought it was as far as the Eye can see

[north jolt]

[graceful swan]

But they have no eyes to see me

Wally just has a black Void in his
Murmur are just body parts

[north jolt]

Oh, oh God

I just had a cursed idea I 100% cannot share

[tall echo]

"Don't be afraid"
-error

[north jolt]

I had a cursed idea for new Murmur enemy variants

Extremely cursed, too cursed to go into detail here

But on a different note, is there a particular reason or some kind of narrative significance for the indifference invading specifically through Mathila's mood?

Cause personally I think it would be cool to see the other mood's reaction to the Murmur invasion

[tall echo]

She's very unstable

[north jolt]

Aren't they all?

[humble sierra]

Mathila had a "crack" of sorts, I think is the term Ruswallka says

And it's also likely related to the fact that her husband died while defending Duviri from It, and saw It's hand emerging

[tall echo]

Her happiness is faked

[humble sierra]

Forced*

[north jolt]

Oh yeah that much I knew. But the part about there being a crack in her facade and the indifference coming in through that makes sense too

[dusk temple]

Mathila is also the only emotion that didn’t betray Dominus Thrax. Or at least, the only one still working with him.

[humble sierra]

Lodun would definitely betray him if he thought it'd mean he gets the throne, Luscinia probably betrayed him because she feels like a prisoner, iirc? Sythel would just try fleeing or hunkering down because of the MITW, or maybe she joined out of fear/hopes that It would spare her? Idk about Bombastine.

[dusk temple]

Bombastine is the representation of envy, so I think he would betray Thrax because he envied and lusted after the power that The Indifference more than he did the power of Dominus Thrax.

[normal mountain]

Or he'd just get annoyed enough with Thrax favoring Luscinia over him, and decide to side with the Indifference because it recognizes him

[graceful swan]

For Mathila it’s also personal

[humble sierra]

I feel like they should've dropped a quest for Isleweaver. It could've just been a short one that's the same length as a run, but with dialogue about the whole situation. Or even just a cutscene of Scholar's Landing appearing out of the blue with the same effect as Wally does at the end of New War, a little bit of the Orowyrms siding against Thrax besides Mathila?

[dusk temple]

Yeah, and they could’ve done something like The Hex quest where you can replay it a bunch and work towards finding a second ending that’ll give you the Invictus signa. I like Isleweaver, but I want more lore on it and the stories of the characters.

[cursive crescent]

They did at the very least scatter some hidden lore interactibles ||("corpses")|| that end up culminating in ||velimir and minerva finally finding out about what remains of their little girl, and the solace gained from what hope they could get||

But otherwise yeah it would've been nicer if there was some other aknowledgement of the Isleweaver event outside the limited event itself

[graceful swan]

I blame the people wanting more Duviri content tbh

[dusk temple]

Duviri is nice. I like it because it makes me use new weapons. And because I can use Fleet-Footed with Temporal Acceleration while having 130 decrees.

[cursive crescent]

I like duviri for everything but the grindy parts (150 rune marrow for thalys grahh) and undercroft defense, but I honestly wouldve wanted more expansion of Duviri... outside Duviri if that makes sense?

Like during the hex quest when we pull out our deus ex machina

Or koumei being the decree gimmick frame (we all love playing koumei)

[stray herald]

Who are the reshantur

[humble sierra]

Nezha lore

[stray herald]

And who are the reshantur?

[humble sierra]

Farmers I think, then all that were left were children that Nezha protected?

[stray herald]

Orokin farmers?

[humble sierra]

Just colonists probably

Idk been a while, the Leverian goes into more detail

[stray herald]

Pre-orokin era? Or like pre-corpus people

[strange plinth]

iirc nezha showed up to defend them from the orokin
dunno where it would be in relation to the corpus though

oh, no. the corpus were raiding the reshantur
post granum-disappearance corpus

[stray herald]

Ok so reshantur is a farm, and the ‘children of reshantur’ are a cult

The farmers of that land were poor and the older children formed that cult

[cursive crescent]

Not just any children formed the cult
Seems they were the child soldiers of reshantur that survived a corpus raid thanks to nezha
Of course they're child soldiers.

[heady quest]

can we already discuss isleweaver lore here?

nice nice

[upbeat burrow]

So loid velemir and minerva are dead lore wise?

I didnt collect the shards yet

[strange plinth]

if the false duviri overwrites the true, sorta?
but for now, no
but even then, they'd be "constructs" of the originals
so probably not then either

[limpid grove]

Did the Grineer and Corpus recover as quickly as is shown ingame from the Narmer occupation of The origin System?

[heady quest]

so i was playing a mission and rusalka says she was dying because of the efervon and that wally extended his hand or something like that to help rusalka. So rusalka isn't a wally clone then? and she is an axtual human being who made another deal with wally kinda like us?

[upbeat burrow]

What if the real versions entered duviri, instead of them being a copy?

[heady quest]

it is kinda a different possible future

[strange plinth]

seemingly so, yeah
wally has another line about "you want this body back? as chewed up as it is?"

[heady quest]

there is a note on top of the big sholars landing tower which kinda is written as a possible outcome of this whole war

[strange plinth]

min and vel would have no reasonable way to get to duviri, and loid doesn't have much reason to go there

[heady quest]

i am not sure but i think a little time has passed to clear away narmer. But there is still narmer activity going on

which isn't exactly shown

[upbeat burrow]

Any ideas where the story is gonna head next?

[strange plinth]

more void shenangians, potentially Tau down the road

[upbeat burrow]

Im 90% confident theyre gonna leave this rusalka thing open ended like they did with every other story arc

[heady quest]

there are possible teasers in the tennocon trailers

[upbeat burrow]

And start something else like tau

[heady quest]

it's weird that this is not a quest

[limpid grove]

yeah true, could also Ballas's death destoryed the veils of many corpus and Grineer who unwillingly followed Narmer

[heady quest]

is sholars landing gonna be a new island in base duviri then?

[upbeat burrow]

Even a lotus eater style teaser wouldve been nice

[strange plinth]

isleweaver node is staying, eight claw is going, no other changes

[heady quest]

ohhh interesting

[upbeat burrow]

I guess the oraxia fight wont be guaranteed every run like in the event

Similar to kullervo

[heady quest]

kinda want a little revamp of the duviri UI then, like maybe have a topdown view of what looks like duviri, have the nodes placed on there and maybe for isleweaver it could be a node in the distance of duviri island

[strange plinth]

probably will be guaranteed as it is now
no reason to change that

[heady quest]

anyway back to lore, I just find it interesting that Rusalka isn't a wally clone then and just a deal brokered puppet

then again it is also very random to just have her appear as a clone without ever seeing the original on who it is based on

[graceful swan]

We never actually saw her without Wally possessing her as she was possessed through the whole Hex Quest

[upbeat burrow]

The original was in the first 1999 quest, then likely made a deal and wally kidnapped her into duviri

[upbeat burrow]

Oh she was already posessed?

[graceful swan]

Yeah that’s why she calls you Kiddo in the quest

That’s something only Wally calls us

You also see that in the interview Wally swaps forms

[woven coyote]

Also the end of the 1999 arg with a pc screen reflecting rusalkas face

Iirc that had some implications on wally getting to her

[graceful swan]

Thanks, Kiddo

[humble sierra]

Wrong server?

[graceful swan]

<@&778745217037238293>

[restive river]

Her reflection was actually early into the arg
It is still suspected the arg is how he got access ofc

[woven coyote]

Didnt follow the arg enough so i had thought it was at the end

[restive river]

Nah

Russalka was investigating the origin of the techrot and went too deep, got wally instead

[hearty pewter]

quick question how will the isle remain after the Operation?

will it stay just like it is rn?

[gloomy prism]

So Revenant, Xaku, Qurvex, and Oraxia are all frames that weren't made by Ballas.

[hearty pewter]

xaku could technically be made by ballas cus they are 3 frames chewed togheter by the void

and ballas made most of them

[gloomy prism]

But Xaku was never the intended outcome

[hearty pewter]

no

[gloomy prism]

So he also technically didn't make them

[hearty pewter]

meh might as well be this

[gloomy prism]

Schrödinger's Warframe if you will

Given how disgusted Ballas was with Revenant Prime's mare existence. I know he's going to be real pissed when he sees oraxia prime.

Also the fact oraxia was I the void in scholars island just chilling but was so loyal literally the only way the void could control her was by making her see Albrecht shows she was special. And we know she was tennoless.

[normal mountain]

I personally suspect Albrecht will be narrating that Prime Trailer
As I do for Qorvex (and maybe Xaku, if they ever get one)

[restive river]

Warden was likely made by Ballas and became Revenant
Their prime wasn’t made by him though
Xaku by technicality was likely made by Ballas cause their pieces but Xaku themselves was the void
Qorvex is Albrecht
Oraxia is an unknown

Xaku Prime was likely made by Albrecht or any of the Entrati
Albrecht is just the most likely
Qorvex prime is def entrati
Oraxia prime is also an unknown

Just cause Oraxia is in the void on scholar’s landing doesn’t mean Albrecht made her
Unless im missing a detail that states he made her, afaik he just brought her as protection

[normal mountain]

He made Qorvex, so it's at least possible he made Oraxia too
But from everything I've seen (without the fragments completed), nothing was confirmed

[restive river]

It’s possible but not confirmed

[normal mountain]

Or even implied, really

[restive river]

Considering the timeline it would’ve been before the vessels

[dusk temple]

I don’t think Kullervo was made by him.

[restive river]

I can see Albrecht commissioning her from Ballas with Qorvex being of his own design

[restive river]

Kullervo was one of Ballas’

[normal mountain]

He was
Kullervo was first Gen
Before the Zariman

[dusk temple]

Oh, okay.

[restive river]

iirc one of the crimes was attempted murder of his “father”

[dusk temple]

The how’d he get to Duviri?

[restive river]

Banished by Ballas

Thrown into the void

[normal mountain]

As usual

[restive river]

Stuff just kinda ends up in Duviri

[restive river]

No frames were before the Zariman btw

[normal mountain]

Obviously
I meant before it came back
the first time

[restive river]

The frames were made during the old war as a response to the sentients
Kullervo saw some of the tenno iirc too

[normal mountain]

Before the Tenno probably would have been clearer, in hindsight

[restive river]

It’s unknown if Kullervo predates the Zariman returning but he does predate the tenno as pilots

Just barely from what I recall

[normal mountain]

He at least survived the mass slaughtering of the first gen frames

[restive river]

Yup

Which reminds me
Oraxia seems to be sapient too, but we don’t really know if the one we fight is a void-copy of the real Oraxia cause
Scholar’s landing just disappeared unlike the other lost islands

So if it’s the original Oraxia (which Wally says he can bring her back so idk)
How did she stay sapient? She reacted to Albrecht’s voice as that’s how Wally got her on his side
So ig she was just chilling

Whatever her story is we don’t know
Just
She worked for Albrecht, was in Duviri, disappeared with Scholar’s landing and what we see now

[normal mountain]

I bet she hibernated
Because that's something spiders can do, apparently

[restive river]

Big nappy to not go totally insane

And she never goes fully feral cause we destroy her
Then Wally brings her back

Oraxia’s got it bad tbh ):

What frame doesn’t though

[normal mountain]

Well, Dante had it pretty good, until he read the wrong book

Bout it though

[restive river]

Truue

Bro could communicate!

[normal mountain]

Love the fact that he's a published author
Cracked me up

[restive river]

Yareli’s joyous whimsy shines through
But that’s mostly just her personality shining through like all frames

[normal mountain]

Mostly a silly idea
But I still wonder who would win between Duviri Kullervo and Isleweaver Oraxia

[restive river]

Good question!

[gloomy prism]

Y'all think oraxia was the one that chased thrax away.

[restive river]

What?

[glass lake]

It was she under influence of rusalka under indifrence or am i wrong?

[restive river]

She’s under the influence of the indifference

Who is controlling Russalka

The Indifference showed up as Albrecht, as it can do, and got her on it’s side

[gloomy prism]

Dominus Thrax. You think when Neci rolled up to take over everything that Oraxia was the one that physically chased him? Cause the mental image of Thrax on a Kaith riding away in terror while Oraxia chases him down while in her 4 with a legion of scuttlers is funny.

[restive river]

Yes I know who Thrax is :p
i think Wally showing up with Scholar’s landing invading with Murmur everywhere is likely what scared him away
He probably stayed on the throne til Neciwally showed up and booted him

Which from there he got to Teshin’s cave which connects to the Zariman

Maybe Wally had Oraxia chase him down
Maybe not
I don’t think it’s stated so room for silly headcanon :]

[gloomy prism]

On the topic of Oraxia. Concept-wise she's, from my fairly broad knowledge of arachnids, is a fusion of 3 maybe 4 different species.
The jumping spider
Spiny Orb-weaver
Ogre face spider
...And the tarantula hawk wasp... For some reason.

[humble sierra]

Yeah, only Thrax will leave the Dormizone, and we might get new dialogues in the node itself

[swift sentinel]

Aureus shop will close, Husk shop will stay with Acrithus.

[terse ember]

Anyone hear where to go after collecting all lore fragments to get teh cut scene or story

[swift sentinel]

It should be an Inbox message from Rusalka, then a KIM convo with Min/Vel

It was broken but just got fixed, according to the notes.

[terse ember]

ok thnx

[proper barn]

also you haft to have gotten the good Vel/Min ending.

[jolly cairn]

I just got that.

Man, I hope we can make Rusalka our friend.

Spread the word. #rusalkafornewfriend

[scenic depot]

so what IS the silver void goop

[proper barn]

What silver void goop?

[dire mountain]

Like on the zariman

[scenic depot]

the incarnon/void angel/zariman stuff

[dire mountain]

What the Angels are made of

[proper barn]

Oh the like silver stuff on the weapons?

[dire mountain]

We don't really have an official name for it afaik

[scenic depot]

yeah

[proper barn]

Just manifested void.

[scenic depot]

it looks cool

[proper barn]

It's on the sevogoth RJ skin when you put up wear and tear.

The only good wear and tear in the game.

Void corruption I guess?

[tall echo]

Nah it's different

[proper barn]

What? It's literally glowing void like damage?

[tall echo]

It's not silvery

[restive river]

isn't it?

visually it matches void-damage

[tall echo]

I just checked

It is not

Pattern is also slightly different

[restive river]

So it’s blue
And while the pattern is slightly different I think that we can say that’s void damage :p

Like the way it warps the metal and isn’t just scratched and damaged

[high bay]

Does Warframe have any rail guns?

[tall echo]

Stahlta

[bold gorge]

Do you all think well ever know why stalker is in Duviri?

[stiff fable]

They've actually said something about it

Something something Stalker paying debts, something something "maybe not the Stalker we're familiar with"

[bold gorge]

ooo ive never seen that hmmm i wonder what that could mean

[restive river]

Source?

[stiff fable]

Someone here quoting a dev

[marsh mango]

for fanfic purposes

do we know if the air in höllvania is safe to breathe up top?

all the scaldra enemies we encounter wear protective suits, but the protoframes do not
still, with the whole “frames are infested flesh” thing, that could be handwaved away as a sort of innate immunity

i think the strongest argument in favor of if is the fact that civilians still exist
way i see it it’d be impossible for that many people to somehow have access to hermetically-sealed protective environments

[jolly cairn]

I would assume that it's semi-okay? If that makes sense?

I like to think that it's like an area affected by a bunch of coal plants.

It's still breathable, just not super fun to breathe.

[restive river]

I mean
All the infestation needs is a single spore

[jolly cairn]

Yeah.

[restive river]

Civilians stay inside

Scaldra have efervon
Russalka was pumping it into her lungs just to fight the infection

[jolly cairn]

True.

[restive river]

I’d say it’s not particularly safe beyond specific areas, like non-infected homes

The further one is from the infestation and the scaldra green goo the better you’ll breathe :)

[jolly cairn]

Yeah.

[marsh mango]

that would be my assumption as well

[marsh mango]

that sounds more believable
as long as it isn’t “be within a hundred feet of any infested biomatter and you’re doomed”

[dire mountain]

Yeah considering the graffiti with the one person in a face mask

Dont be too close unprepared

If youre far enough away you'll be okay

[strange turtle]

The Paris is kinda a railbow

Paris uses a chargeable magnetic field to launch arrows capable of impaling enemies to walls.
It’s not said, but considering the design, sfx and name inspiration of the Lenz it’s possible it’s a railbow
The Spirex is a railpistol
Ferrox is a railgun speargun
Discharge a rail of ionized death or throw the Ferrox like a spear
The Lanka is a railgun sniper
The Lanka fires a high velocity projectile through magnetic induction.
Like Scrap said, Stahlta
Nail them to the wall! The Stahlta automatic rifle propels hardened steel rods at high speed,

[strange turtle]

Flare saw a “gym bunny” walking down the street “the other day” and got envy so there’s definitely still a degree of freedom

[marsh mango]

that’s a hilarious tidbit for a character i haven’t gotten close to yet
i wonder if it’s really the quality of the physique they envied or the
y’know
having a normal body

[strange turtle]

Definitely the physique

They specifically reference their assets

[marsh mango]

ah
well
the protoframes were not known for their chastity

[tawdry bramble]

Would you rather never forget the events of January 6th or sept 11th

[marsh mango]

i’m not american so i could do without both
also
this is probably not the channel for that

[tawdry bramble]

I wish I wasn’t American

[marsh mango]

you’re not alone

[strange turtle]

Definitely immune, but still carriers. It’s mentioned multiple times and in one of the convos Eleanor says “Aaaand I just felt the Techrot in my cells give an anxious little quiver.”

[marsh mango]

this brings to mind questions i have about the protoframe’s actual
well
junk
the nature of the warframe transformation doesn’t really leave any space for the fun bits (citrine’s is decorative)

you would expect the protoframes to be the same, considering their marked similarities to the real things
and i sincerely doubt entrati would care to keep the bits around himself
yet a copious amount of dialogue implies they have no trouble getting down to it

which can be interpreted in multiple ways

maybe the frame bits we see on the hex and friends are more like exo-suits?

[marsh mango]

fun
knowing her she gets to feel the techrot in the others’ bodies too
that can’t be nice for anyone

[strange turtle]

Considering Eleanor’s tongue and the fact that they’re still able to do things like match up to full Warframes (arrival to 1999 cutscene) and similar feats of strength (like with the tank) I think it’s more likely that Albrecht just made a few modifications, rather than the exosuit thing

Like how they can get drunk even though you’d think the normal transformation, even when only partial, would at least make it harder, and nothing’s mentioned of them specifically using really high content alcohol

[rich stump]

I mean, there’s a convo with Quincy that fully confirms he has genitals

[marsh mango]

oh really? i was under the impression the protoframes were noticeably weaker than their future/prior incarnations

i guess it’s canon that albrecht wanted the drifter to have fun time with the hex then

[marsh mango]

i also saw one for amir
and there’s the off-hand remark amir makes regarding arthur’s alone time
i’m sorry i love the hex as characters

[strange turtle]

They probably are, but Arthur was still able to direct the tank gun and jump away, along with maintaining that sword clash with an experienced Warframe user (one that was doing it intentionally so they could lore dump but still)

[strange turtle]

Amir also has a convo about ||Quincy having sex and being able to hear it||

[rich stump]

Also, I feel like even just regular warframes not having genitals would kinda contradict with them being able to give birth

[strange turtle]

Spoilered in case you haven’t seen them all yet and would like to

[strange turtle]

That’s not a normal warframe thing

[rich stump]

That’s possible

[graceful swan]

Warframes can’t create babies

[strange turtle]

Jade was specifically made to accommodate the child’s continued existence

[rich stump]

Ah

I wasn’t sure about that

[graceful swan]

Jade was pregnant pre framing

[marsh mango]

can’t wait to see them get powerscaled to all hell against actual frames based off of very ambiguous quantities

[strange turtle]

If you go to Teshin’s room in the Relays you can find one of her feathers and it’ll have a bunch of lore

[marsh mango]

OHH THIS ONE yeah i remember this one though i do appreciate the spoilers nonetheless
crazy what being trapped in a mall will do for your quality of privacy

[marsh mango]

tangent
but
do we actually know why steel path teshin has that weird hologram thing going
is he dead
i kinda forgot what happened after the grineer queen stuff

[strange turtle]

Yeah

Well no

We thought he was dead in New War

But he landed in Duviri and got healed up by Mathila

[graceful swan]

The real Teshin is in Duviri so Ordis probably did what he did for Lotus when she was gone

[strange turtle]

So he was “dead” to us and the System until they added Duviri, and he hasn’t left and is old now so we still have the hologram

[marsh mango]

the tenno and their friends just cannot stop having unorthodox relationships with the concept of death

[lean garden]

I mean, Jade is very much an edge case, one where even her original s*x organs arent the normal human kind

[ocean mason]

though I have no idea why he hasn't left yet in all honesty
we know based on current update that even living things that are purely conceptual embodiment can just leave

[tall echo]

I like to think it's the conclave cephalons since he was orange for a while, just like sark

[raw frigate]

Don't know if anyone else has thought about this but if we're going to Tau, do you think the Murmur and the Sentients might be going to war with each other?

[tall echo]

If the murmur show up there the sentients are screwed

[raw frigate]

I mean if Entrati is going there, the murmur is definitely gonna follow him there

[merry hawk]

I’m here, Kiddo.

Do I have the lore wrong? ||what I gathered from the chains of Harrow quest is that Rell was a Tenno that sacrificed himself to keep Wally back, but in the end loses his mind, and eventually his life.||

[strange plinth]

not too far off, yeah
rell shared the same origin as the other tenno but wasn't saved/trained/whatever by margulis
so he didn't get cryo'd during the gap between then and now
he gave up his physical body, binding his consciousness to Harrow, to continue holding off wally with his mind
we take up that responsibility and allow him to fully rest at the end

[tall echo]

He doesn't lose his mind, wally just takes over

Also rell doesn't say kiddo, wally does

[proper barn]

People always forget this. But the sentients in tau like are more than 1k years removed from us ANd we have only ever seen Hunhow his wife and his kids.

We haven't seen any sentient not related somehow to Hunhow. Also what we fight are fragments of a wounded by the Void sentient.

[proper barn]

For over 1000 years he was the one keeping him at bay yeah.

[raw frigate]

Thats true, however we also dont really know much about them. So if the murmur and wally did attack there looking for Entrati then I'm sure they'd be capable of fighting back. I'm also kind of hoping for some more sentient enemies and some more Pazuul interactions

[proper barn]

I think the 3rd Orb will be about him trying to Rebuild the Solar rail to tau. (Hunhow destroyed the origin system side of the solar rail to tau). Also i dont think the Sentients would want to fight. They haven't dealt with us much at all.

[raw frigate]

Thats true, though i hope Pazuul or Hunhow show up again for the next part of the story if it'll be a sentient focused one

[graceful swan]

He will if if’s third orb he's literally head of Narmer

[proper barn]

Yeppers

[humble sierra]

I feel like odds are that Pazuul reaches Tau first, gaslights the Sentients into thinking the Tenno are just like the Orokin, coming here to slaughter them, and they aggressively attempt to defend Tau from us for the story. Eventually we get that cleared up, they stand down and become an ally syndicate, besides some Pazuul Loyalists (who will serve as the enemies for the gameplay loop missions).

[proper barn]

He would need to rebuild the solar rail first.

[stray herald]

So what is the point of velimir minerva and loid in isleweaver?

Loid gave the most insight as the power of love is not quite the answer

[lean garden]

welp, you fell for it

[stray herald]

Wally lies

[lean garden]

their fake bodies are there by wally to try to trick you

[stray herald]

Is it the same sort the manipulation with the ‘is that how you remembered it?’ Thing?

[lean garden]

if you walk away from the obvious trap by wally and go "hm yea maybe love aint quite the answer", hes got you by the sentient cores

[stray herald]

Ive never experienced that wally encounter in orbiter

[lean garden]

its a scripted encounter that happens the moment you load back into your orbitor after the sacrifice

[stray herald]

I never did

Probably has to do with the good/bad alignment thing

But thats all? Rusalka and wally’s attempts to stop drifter?

Through tactical exposure of their own weakness to divert victory?

[graceful swan]

Doesn't

[stray herald]

Back to my question, whats the point of showing the three people?

[lean garden]

loid because albrecht, v and m because of neci

all 3 to try to convince you that your approach is wrong

[untold pivot]

Played Cyberpunk 2077 for the first time (summer sale) and I completed the ||Arasoka ending.|| It literally just feels like the birth of the Orokin lol (Massively rich billionaires can be transferred into new bodies)

[sick nebula]

My take is that the corpses in Isleweaver are there as part of Wally's edgy AU fanfic of Drifter's "Tales of Duviri" fanfic.

They are there to convey Wally's ideas about how things are supposed to work.

Wally gets angry when things work in ways they aren't supposed to. :3

[restive river]

Jokes on him
He got upset when we saved the hex and we cut a stand with Albrecht’s love for Loid

[proper barn]

I mean it's also probably supposed to try to dismay us.

[sick nebula]

Possibly related: Tagfer and Bird 3 speculate that Wally's main motivation might actually be jealousy

Jealous of love, but unable to understand it well enough to seek it out.

[restive river]

He’s also just envious cause we’re all something’s and he’s a nothing

Everything he is is because of humans

His forms
His murmur
His angels

[light turtle]

|| The New War mision is so awesome and long, i'm still 3 hours and did'nt finish ||

|| And in a Free game (i bought 60euro of platinium in total maybe since January xD but damn they made very good story ) ||

|| Maybe next time DE can take a Dragon Age or a Mass Effect Game to develop because they are lame , DE made real "Oeuvre D'art" ||

[sick nebula]

DE's next game is Soulframe

[karmic idol]

Reading the description of Sevagoth's and Hydroid's deluxe skins, I like the thought that the deluxe skins are basically variants of the batches of technocyte virus. At least most of them anyways.

[restive river]

I mean frames were mass produced

[graceful swan]

On this does anything in game actually say they were as I’ve had people in other server say they weren’t

[stiff fable]

Yeah, it's come up in places

Sacrifice implies it (with how fast they go through volunteers)

[smoky solstice]

hey so did we find out anything new about warframe? been busy with work so not as hyper obsessed with all the details

it feels through the dialogue I do digest that neci is really foreshadowing some type of big twist

I mean like from the isleweaver dialogue

I assume a lot of people here have gone through a lot of it

[strange plinth]

i think the biggest thing we got from isleweaver is that wally approached rusalka several times throughout her life, and she only accepted a deal on (essentially) death's door
smoking the effervon isn't great for your lungs, what a surprise

[fresh sail]

So he's autistic? Me and my nephew have tantrums based on what others would consider the pettiest stuff

[stiff fable]

no lol

[fresh sail]

@light turtle I kinda feel like we haven't gotten anything quite that big since

[stiff fable]

Being evil is not a symptom of autism

[fresh sail]

I meant the whole freaking out when things don't behave the way you expect them to

[sick nebula]

Getting angry when things don't work they way you think they should work is pretty common among the "neurotypical"

For example, getting angry when people don't function in a "neurotypical" manner

[stiff fable]

That's just standard villain behavior

[fresh sail]

I mean, it seems pretty obvious to me that "teach the eldritch guy who doesn't understand" is the direction DE is headed

[stiff fable]

Yeah uhhh

[fresh sail]

....maybe. Drifter is a lot more openly antagonistic to Wally than the kid

[stiff fable]

No.

VERY no.

[blissful merlin]

Very very very much no

[fresh sail]

I feel rather like what I'm trying to say isn't being understood tbh
Tho just to clarify, is this "No, the plot isn't headed there" or "Wow the stuff coming out of this one's mouth keeps getting more and more vile"

[stiff fable]

No we understand and think you're not correct.

[sick nebula]

I'm not clear on what's being said, tbh

There's something about who is more hostile to who.

I think we know a lot more about the Drifter than about the Operator, because of all the KIM convos, whereas the Operator is more of a blank slate.

[stiff fable]

The plot's not going there.

Wally's most likely to end up banished, the ruling consciousness scattered

[fresh sail]

Hmm. I wonder why they would bother with "The villain cannot understand love" then
Instead of playing at having some deep underlying philosophy

[stiff fable]

The Murmur's going to stick around because the game won't want to erase a major faction

But Wally won't be an existential threat on the same level

[fresh sail]

Also if we defeat Wally we'd lose our powers
And the game kinda ends lol

[stiff fable]

Not really

Wally isn't the whole void

[sly pagoda]

I figured we drew from the void itself

[sick nebula]

Are we talking about this line?

Tagfer: "Whatever Papa touched, the Indifference, the Murmur, I think it's lonely. It wants to be a part of what we've got going on. Only, it doesn't know that. And it does its best to join in, but it's clumsy. Ignorant. So everything about it is... skewed. Half-DONKEYed. You follow?"

[stiff fable]

Wally is malicious, the void isn't inherently

Dangerous yes, malicious no.

[fresh sail]

People always mention the heart the entrati have, but that's just a conduit
The whole thing started bc we shook a hand

[stiff fable]

That came later

It STARTED when Wally tried to stick his hand out of the Void, and Mother closed the portal on the fingers.

[fresh sail]

I mean Wally wasn't proven malicious by then
Only tried to make contact

If anything, you could argue it started bc humans have a tendency to try and destroy what they fear and don't understand

[stiff fable]

If you think that's all he was trying to do I don't know what to say

About the thing that is obliterating entire timelines

[fresh sail]

He literally had committed zero crimes when first discovered by the entrati family

[stiff fable]

Wally is literally made of entropy

[fresh sail]

And entropy is a neutral force
Trying to stave it off usually does bad things
Like leading to Dark Souls, for instance

[stiff fable]

We know this because the Murmur are said to be pieces of Wally's body, and the Murmur are said to be animated by destroyed timelines

[sick nebula]

My personal take is that Wally eats entropy

Or maybe just uses it as a fuel for stuff

[stiff fable]

Meaning Wally IS a sentient entropic force

[fresh sail]

Humans only see entropy as "evil" bc they selfishly want to live
But life having a set expiration date is hardly the same as murder

[sly pagoda]

For all we know he was some being banished to the void an extremely long time ago.

[stiff fable]

So no, I think it's safe to say that Wally needs a taste of his own oblivion

[sick nebula]

The dust of decayed universes, rich in entropy. Entrati's research postulates it as the animating agent of the nightmarish Murmur.
Murmur are powered by something that already has a lot of entropy

Which is why I think that they consume entropy

i.e.:

Humans: "Entropy is bad"
Wally: "Entropy is food"

[stiff fable]

Do you know what an agent is in physics terms

It's something that imposes that thing

Wally is imposing entropy on reality

[sly pagoda]

There has to be some reason he wants into realspace long term and IMO it’s nothing good.

[feral cape]

Entropy always throws me this means there eating a low energy state right

[sick nebula]

It means I don't follow.

The "rich" quantities of entropy in already "decayed" universes are supposedly the thing that animates the Murmur

[stiff fable]

Wally's body is made of entropy

And he's using said body to invade more universes

As he has many times before

[sick nebula]

Not low energy, but low levels of "usable" energy.

Except apparently it is usable by the Murmur

[fresh sail]

"We alone shall inherit the universe" rhetoric just makes one the Orokin

[smoky solstice]

oh that's super interesting honestly, I definitely noted what she said that wally basically gave her a life, but I didn't really connect it with the smoking.

I know DE has tackled sensitive themes many times, part of the reason I love the game so much, the fact that DE don't hesitate to tackle these sensitive topics, but nicotine addiction is one thing that's like really personal to me so idk if they're gonna go super in depth into the specifics of it, since it seems unlikely, but this is a cool detail to add regardless.

I know it's not quite the same, since the smoking in warframe 1999 is very different from smoking for us but it's cool to make it a plot point

[stiff fable]

(The effervon is her infestation cure)

[sick nebula]

I think the Effervon was more like crude chemotherapy.

[stiff fable]

That's a perfect comparison

[fresh sail]

In Warframe, the cure is usually just as bad as the sickness sadly

Flare's entire KIM tree tho is another reason why I have the theory I do tho

AFAIK accepting Lizzie instead of rejecting her is their "good" ending

Warframe seems pretty all in on the "attempt to empathize and connect with everything, even the alien lifeforms"

And I don't think anyone can call the Infestation beneficial

[sick nebula]

'gonna drag Wally on a road trip to Tau! 😆

[woven coyote]

thing is wally usually wants to prevent us from empathizing

[smoky solstice]

yeah, that honestly seems like a better comparison, only reason I liken it to smoking is because that's how they consume it.

[stiff fable]

I mean, Flare's good end is accepting Lizzie because ||nonstandard time loop||

[woven coyote]

i don't see how it would work when wally straight up rejects empathy

[fresh sail]

I mean, plenty of people would be quick to write off the Warframes themselves as nothing more than meatsuits
It's supposed to be what makes the MC so different that they don't do this
That Frames don't need to be as capable as Umbra to qualify for personhood

[smoky solstice]

also, I do want to note that part of the reason I really find it cool that that's an actual plot point is because the first time we meet Neci Rusalka, she's taking a hit

it sets it up so perfectly

[sick nebula]

Yeah, that's the difficult part.

[fresh sail]

I'm not so sure tbh. If 1999 characters were meant to stay trapped there
Why would DE bother going all in on the Drifter found family angle if they were gonna abandon them there like Entrati sooner or later?

Heck even Kaya talks incessantly about leaving the year behind
Also, The Zariman is "keeping something plugged" and it's obvious that's Duviri

[strange plinth]

the zariman is keeping the entire void from flooding the system

[sick nebula]

Kaya leaves 1999 and moves to Larunda Relay if you tell her about Argon Crystals.

[fresh sail]

Likely intended to be involved in the climax of the Void war arc, even if we don't know what that looks like yet

[tall echo]

If the zariman is removed it's gonna cause violent void storms

[dusk temple]

It would make the heart of Deimos useless right?

[stiff fable]

Could be for the tragedy aspect

[tall echo]

No it'd just be void storms

[stiff fable]

Like I don't believe that per se, but it wouldn't be out of character

[woven coyote]

i don't think it's duviri really duvir didn't really have any event that could account for the tear the zariman is plugging

[dusk temple]

No, but the Zariman is visible from the mainland of the paradox

[fresh sail]

But you can literally see Duviri behind it when your Orbiter is parked in front of the Ten-0?

It's black and white, but it's there

[tall echo]

Duviri isn't the paradox

[dusk temple]

the quest is called The Duviri Paradox?

[stiff fable]

That's technically the Operator's Zariman

[woven coyote]

duviri is linked to the zariman yes, but i don't think the zariman is plugging duviri from spilling out

[strange plinth]

the paradox is how drifter escapes from it, though

[stiff fable]

The Drifter's Zariman BECAME Duviri

[fresh sail]

The drifter is the paradox I thought

[tall echo]

Duviri: location
Paradox: different topic

[fresh sail]

Bc two copies of the same person isn't supposed to exist in the same worldline

[stiff fable]

The paradox is how the Drifter and Operator both help the other after receiving help from the other

[tall echo]

The paradox is the operator helping drifter as thanks for something they didn't do yet

[strange plinth]

and neither knew of the other until they were already helped, yeah

[stiff fable]

Which came first? Yes.

[dusk temple]

Eternalism is freaky

[fresh sail]

Ngl eternalism is kinda annoying actually

[strange plinth]

"her parents will die. her parents will survive." n all that

[smoky solstice]

before I say anything, have you completed all the conversations of the protoframes up to tier 5? like with the new protoframes, have you completed their storylines

because I have a very good explanation but I don't wanna spoil anything

[stiff fable]

Eternalism is just multiverse theory but the void does spooky stuff in between the spaces

[fresh sail]

It's like DE's version of the Dragon Break concept

[stiff fable]

heh

[dusk temple]

The Void changes eternalism from a concept to a reality

[stiff fable]

Man the Elder Scrolls would be a better series if the games were about the lore

[fresh sail]

Sorry for being the cynic, but most writers introduce the multiverse to excuse future plot holes and retcons as insurance

[dusk temple]

You arent wrong

[fresh sail]

DE's been better about it, but I just can't trust the concept

[stiff fable]

DE mostly added the multiverse to destroy it offscreen

[smoky solstice]

honestly I always considered it as, to put it more concisely after thinking about it more, the void is potential, the origin system is reality. In other words, the void has everything it could've been but it's not realised fully until it enters our system. Until then, it's just void shenanigans. But now I'm not so sure.

[stiff fable]

That's been my working theory.

Potential energy. Potential history. Potential reality.

[dusk temple]

That makes alot of sense

[fresh sail]

Is it not scary tho? The thought of sealing away the very concept of potential itself?

[stiff fable]

It's terrifying but also very cool

It's like the ultimate multiverse null space; what if the universe never came into existence?

[dusk temple]

Im sure DE will handle it well. So far (from what ive seen) they havent messed anything up.

[stiff fable]

And now it's so full of potential that stuff just spontaneously generates from it

[dusk temple]

maybe thats what Wally is trying to do?

unmake reality?

[stiff fable]

Almost certainly the case.

[fresh sail]

I... don't see it, personally

Not saying he ain't problematic, or secretly misunderstood
But I don't really see the omnicidal intentions

[smoky solstice]

idk if it's about sealing away, since I don't consider wally to be the void, I consider wally to be a being of the void. Clearly it's not the void itself, since if it were, it could control duviri however it'd like, but it can't. More importantly, the Zariman crew do everything in their power to stop it and if Wally were the void, it could just make it so they don't exist or whatever else so that they'd have no power.

my idea with wally is it's about defeating this being who wants revenge on our system for something the orokin did. And in terms of the orokin specifically, they deserved it for sure, send them to the shadow realm and let wally do what it wants to them for all I care, however that's not the reality we live in.

Wally was wronged, and now we live in a scenario where we have to stop it from consuming or destroying everything as we know it, keeping it confined to the void. since it doesn't care that the orokin leadership is no more, it wants blood. So, even if it's justified, our fight is for the system. And in terms of whatever else comes from the void war, we'll see. Whatever the end of it is, I don't think it is the complete severing of the void from our system.

[stiff fable]

Can't be

[smoky solstice]

can't be what

[stiff fable]

Severing the void from the system can't be the end of the arc

[smoky solstice]

yeah that's what I'm saying

[stiff fable]

Just because Orokin tech relies on it

My guess is shattering Wally's consciousness or sealing him back away Rell style

[smoky solstice]

it would be a bad ending since the void is part of the system and it's not the void we're fighting with, it's wally, who is a being of the void, although crucialy not the void itself

[fresh sail]

I mean
Mechanically no
But narratively who would argue with dismantling the remnants of Orokin tech and influence?

It's basically "the magic goes away"

[stiff fable]

That includes "the ability of most colonies to survive"

Since a good chunk of them rely on one form of Orokin tech or another to survive

[strange plinth]

cetus is protected by orokin tech, venus is kept cold by it, to name 2 examples

[fresh sail]

Well I'd argue it isn't just Wally that causes the presence of the Void to warp things
The Void isn't malevolent, but it is inherently harmful

[stiff fable]

Yeah exactly

It's like nature or space itself

[fresh sail]

Which is why the argument for severing it from reality for good holds weight

[smoky solstice]

orokin tech is something that is there and that whoever remains rely on, you can't undo what's been done. This is the reason I like the conflict of the story so much, retribution feels necessary, the tenno did it, but Wally, who was wronged also, didn't, but it also can't happen without the whole system being destroyed as we know it. We're fighting a being who in many ways is justified in its anger but we also have to stop it to save what's already there.

[fresh sail]

Something Something "mankind doesn't need borrowed godlike power crutches" blah blah
Honestly always found it a distasteful trope personally

[stiff fable]

Wally wasn't wronged, he was the one trying to start something

He's angry there were consequences

[fresh sail]

I mean the tenno aren't the best at that

Didn't they kill not only the orokin, but their yuvan slaves too in their vengeance lust

If the entrati hadn't hid themselves away, they might have been casualties too

MC doesn't quite have a stellar history of "the bigger picture over one person's welfare"

[strange plinth]

we don't really have detail on that afaik?
the orokin high caste were the targets, and we know that commoners and other citizens weren't
the yuvan probably fell more into the latter category?

[smoky solstice]

I've criticized the tenno slaughter before, since they went not just for the leadership, they went against all the orokin. The yuvan slaves were likely orokin as well, although idk if there's anything saying they are necessarily, it could be that aristocrats were exempt from the obligation.

[stiff fable]

We killed people that the Orokin could control to fight against us

[stiff fable]

EVERY Orokin was complicit, no exeptions

[smoky solstice]

but I don't think that means that, as things stand right now, the right thing is to let wally consume everything as is

[fresh sail]

......ew

Yeah no thanks rather not get into that one

[stiff fable]

Any one of them could restart the Orokin empire through the gene-controls in the slave castes

[fresh sail]

Tho some things are starting to become clear now

[smoky solstice]

look, I don't want to get into politics, but I do feel the need to say that the orokin were likely all complicit in the same way as every single citizen of Nazi Germany was complicit in the holocaust. In other words, it doesn't mean that you should be able to kill them all regardless.

I feel like I've argued with you before about this captain though

idk if I want to go over this again since this topic is deeply political and idk how the mods feel about this discussion

[stiff fable]

Mods have never interrupted

But the difference is that not every citizen of Nazi Germany was involved with running the camps

[fresh sail]

I will say only that I don't and won't ever believe in mass slaughter or ends justify the means stuff
Ever, forever shall I stand against such viewpoints
But that's as far as I'll go

[stiff fable]

The "ordinary citizens" in your analogy would have been the non-Orokin peoples ruled by the empire, AKA everyone else, who we left alone

[smoky solstice]

yeah, the only thing that made me kinda consider this differently in the context of warframe lore is that the orokin were all able to pick up the mantle of the leadership

like it's kinda different because even if the majority were citizens, they all had the capability to control the classes who were essentially slaves

[stiff fable]

The more we've learned about the Orokin the more it's become clear this was the most moral solution

[fresh sail]

I can't bring myself to cosign "this person might restart the empire, so let's just kill them now"
I'd gladly enable the next empire to stop that slippery slope

[stiff fable]

I wouldn't

[fresh sail]

Precrime punishment is the beginning of the end

[stiff fable]

Not when there wouldn't be a next empire but the same one just getting new leadership

Like if we killed the seven and went to sleep the Orokin Empire would have had a new Seven and that's it

If we'd killed the Seven and the Orokin leadership there would have been a new Seven and a new leadership. Same if we'd killed the Seven, the leadership and the administrators, all the way down to the bottom.

You're either serious about the problem or you're not.

[smoky solstice]

but we don't really know that. I mean we know from archimedean yonta, technically she was a candidate to be killed, by your standards, she should've been killed, but there's no way she's running an empire

[fresh sail]

Or you're the next problem

Void powered guy who jumps straight to violence and has an unshakeable axiom of justice like THAT

[stiff fable]

Which we're clearly not.

[fresh sail]

I've seen where that leads, we all have

[smoky solstice]

the point is that when we're doing the same shit the last people were doing "for the greater good", it doesn't really matter since we're heading down the same road

[fresh sail]

I'm not convinced the tenno entirely shares your worldview tbf

[stiff fable]

In fact you can argue that the entire reason that the Orokin Collapse has been so terrible is that the Tenno didn't ensure some new better power

[stiff fable]

I mean, they do. Explicitly.

[smoky solstice]

that's the whole point of the ends don't justify the means, the fact that simply looking at the utilitarian justification is not enough when the same methods were employed that caused the circumstances we're fighting against in the first place

[stiff fable]

That's why they never attempt any form of dominion or to take any sort of leadership role in the system

[fresh sail]

In point of fact, they were on a grief fueled rampage when they did what they did, and are children

[smoky solstice]

that's not really a justification though

[stiff fable]

I'm not saying it is.

I'm saying that the removal of the Orokin was an absolute moral good

[fresh sail]

No. If you're correct, the drifter wouldn't bother persuading Lizzie, for instance

[smoky solstice]

yeah but you're saying that the fact that all the orokin were technically capable makes them candidates to be killed, deleted from the universe, their humanity be damned

when I think it's a lot more complicated

[fresh sail]

Also! If the tenno think as you do.... why is Natah still breathing?

[stiff fable]

Because she's not Orokin.

[smoky solstice]

I mean if you're comparing it to the other extreme of nothing happening, sure, but surely we have to look at it as just more than that

[fresh sail]

So long as she exists, she can be useful against the Origin system

[smoky solstice]

as whether all the steps taken were justified

man I don't feel good rn, last time I was dogpiled for being on holminster's side and now it's the opposite way around

[fresh sail]

It's happened before, as per her history
By Ballas, but also by Hunhow

Why is Stalker alive, for that matter? Or Hunhow himself?

[stiff fable]

Never had the opportunity to actually kill them

[fresh sail]

You could justify so much with the path of logic you're espousing

[stiff fable]

I actually do have to point out I've said for actual years that I don't think either one is a real ally

[smoky solstice]

including what Wally is doing now btw

[fresh sail]

Truth is, the Lotus DID want to kill us once

[stiff fable]

Not even being edgy, just that they're not on our side

[fresh sail]

She's not "innocent" by your standards

[stiff fable]

When she was mind controlled?

[humble sierra]

When she initially set out to betray the Tenno I think

[stiff fable]

When she was mind controlled.

[fresh sail]

No. When the Sentient is first arrived
But why does that matter?
Did you yourself not say the yuvan were justified bc the orokin could use them like so?

[humble sierra]

She was mind controlled? I thought she was just following orders and her love for us made her disobey them

[stiff fable]

That actually wasn't me

[fresh sail]

She was not mind controlled when the sentient fleet first arrived

[stiff fable]

Oh yeah no, clear and present danger

It's like Grineer

It's very sad but are you going to let the Grineer massacre a colony because one of them might not be fully mind controlled?

[fresh sail]

It could be argued that initially, her "love" for the tenno was as replacement goldfish for her ruined fertility
Only in time did she grow to love them

[stiff fable]

Theeeeeeee's some reason to doubt the whole chain of events

One is that Ballas said it

[fresh sail]

Which, for the record, started after her first brainwashing by ballas

[stiff fable]

The other is Natah meeting Wally