lore-discussion

[restive river]

We do!

[silk atlas]

It pops up when you're in darker tilesets like Preloid fight

[restive river]

It sometimes just pops up when dark at all

[sly pagoda]

But i still think we have night vision. But a flashlight is more suitable to the gameplay design.

Gives more atmosphere to dark places

[silk atlas]

It's called the enemy highlight option

[restive river]

[dire mountain]

Thats VISR from ODST

[sly pagoda]

Enemy highlight when set to red reminds me of playing a high elf in EQ.

They had “infravision” so at night enemies and other beings were visible with a red hue.

(EQ is Everquest, an MMO i played from 2000 to 2006)

[tall echo]

Old

[ashen pulsar]

Is the girl in the opening cutscene an actual character

[sly pagoda]

The girl is the “default” cutscene Tenno for trailers and non player connected cinematics.

I believe shes named Mara?

[silk atlas]

It's meant to be an operator, but because the cutscene was made by a third party for DE, it doesn't really make sense

She doesn't have any name or anything

[ashen pulsar]

Oh, that’s why the quality level is so different

I don’t wanna say warframe cutscenes look trash but god damn that cutscene is beautiful

[silk atlas]

Mara is just an internal name employees use for referencing the players operator and has no bearing on the lore in game

[ashen pulsar]

Other than Mara lohk, which is kinda unrelated?

It’s still a name for our operator

[silk atlas]

Mara Detron

[ashen pulsar]

That’s probably unrelated

[silk atlas]

No one remembers that when they try to act like the scripts saying Mara means anything lol

[ashen pulsar]

They reuse names all the time

[restive river]

Sirocco the weapon
Sirocco the kavat cosmetic

[ashen pulsar]

Titania too

And rusalka

[quartz bison]

who created eximus units?

[humble sierra]

So I'm not sure if there's lore on them besides Jade Light ones being made by Parvos

I like headcanoning it that Corpus, Grineer, and Scaldra are given some tech, while the Infestation have them via mutations

[novel escarp]

The case is most likely Orokin in design and corpus/grineer for starters repurposed it when the Orokin fell.

[humble sierra]

Yeah that definitely sounds right too

[novel escarp]

Infested adapted it. For Techrot would be the same which prob came from Scaldra. But for how Scaldra got their hands on it. We could say it came from the future so a side effect of protoframes appearing. I doubt we seen all of them as we know theres supposedly a lot more out there. Who knows where they are, what side they are on, etc.

[pseudo edge]

A question
Seems like the story isn't very much going forward, is it?
There was 1999, then Temple's update to tie the protoframe loose end, and now isleweaver to tie the Rusalka loose end
Where are we headed next?

[novel escarp]

My guess what ever the next step is with Wally. He getting more bold and actually doing things instead of just being quiet in the background.

[glacial pendant]

The Rusalka lore poem is dark

[quartz bison]

i wonder how the real grineer looked like

i mean like the original ones

maybe sort of like the thrax we find on zariman? since their description mentions them

[tall echo]

You see them in the first cutscene

[pseudo edge]

I was about to mention that yeah

[tall echo]

They are. Weirdly handsome.

[pseudo edge]

The grineer back then were the OGs
Pretty much workers and that's it

[quartz bison]

oohh i gotta rewatch that

[novel escarp]

yeah they aren't as uh banged up. They actually look good. What we have now are over used clones lol

[quartz bison]

clem

[pseudo edge]

I mean
I suppose repetitive cloning, cannibalism and starvation do things to people

[tall echo]

It's mainly the clone rot

[quartz bison]

question is now who created the grineer? was it the orokin? is there some lore that i dont remember?

[tall echo]

Orokin needed workers. Orokin created slave clones.

[glacial pendant]

During the survival Wally said: You are only breathing air because I allow you to.

In every Undercroft gamemode Wally outright tells us that he is just toying with us.

[novel escarp]

When is Wally not toying with us. He's just being more direct now

[quartz bison]

i dont like the idea that wally is just playing. there must be a second thought out of it, a real reason why he does what he does that we still dont know

[tall echo]

Bit delayed, we'll keep hunting A and wally

[strange turtle]

You could say that they’re. Prime specimen

[glacial pendant]

Yeah he wants us to believe that we are doing something but in reality we are doing exactly what he wants

[pseudo edge]

Makes sense
Albrecht wasn't exactly spotted yet

[quartz bison]

clem prime when

[glacial pendant]

There's also the poem on top of the tower

[tall echo]

How convenient that my in-game name literally has huntsman in it

[quartz bison]

the loid script?

on his body?

[glacial pendant]

Was it related to Loid?

[quartz bison]

why is it not literally cephalon scrap

[tall echo]

Filter

S[crap]

[glacial pendant]

Oh damn yes indeed it is Loid

That makes it even darker

[novel escarp]

I actually had a lot of thought on this about Wally. He appeared when A stuck his head in the void which is why Wally has A's face in a way. He has watched us and seen things through us. He could of easily approached us and talked but he chose to toy with us instead. Its also giving me the vibes that he doesn't actually know how to socialize lol or just choses not to. He also could be lonely and doesn't know any better since the void was nothing but became something alive And had A and us in general as examples. Almost like a very intelligent newborn child lol.

[tall echo]

Wally is taunting us with what he expects to happen

[quartz bison]

antisocial psycopath

in 2 words

xd

[novel escarp]

A is that basically 😂

[quartz bison]

they are both mentally ill

[tall echo]

Eeeeeeh he's just kind of a [[Redacted]]

[quartz bison]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-chat-warframe-orange-creamsicle-albretch-entrati-gif-17447654494807688329

i wonder what hes doing now

[tall echo]

Being a pathetic coward mostly

^most unbiased loid fan

[novel escarp]

Sleeping with one eye open because he left a lot of unhappy people in his wake.

[quartz bison]

he sleeps?

[glacial pendant]

I think Wally is more so taunting us in a "Don't let your ego inflate too much because I can wipe you from existence if I want to." kind of way

[tall echo]

Can he though

[quartz bison]

hmm i dont think he is THAT powerful

he would have done it already if he could

[novel escarp]

If Wally could do that. He prob would of done it already

[tall echo]

Man can't even exist without all his fingerbones, kiddo

[glacial pendant]

I think he doesn't because we're useful to him

[tall echo]

Thank you for putting enter sandman back in my head

Fun song

[tall echo]

We're actively fighting him off successfully

[glacial pendant]

I mean he outright tells us that he is allowing us to fight him off.

[quartz bison]

i'm so curious about the true form of wally man

[tall echo]

There's this thing called lying

[quartz bison]

let me hold your hand when i tell you this..

[novel escarp]

This! He only says things. He doesn't do much else. Words don't hold that much power though

[tall echo]

To me, a very professional liar, it seems like wally is getting a bit desperate

[quartz bison]

more desperate and frustrated

how did A even manage to create a bloody hole in the universe xd

what kinda tech does he have

[glacial pendant]

It's an ancient cosmic God older than the universe as we know it. It has been waiting patiently for centuries.

It also has voidcopies, fragments, heralds within the main timeline, he just needs to bring them all together.

I wouldn't say we're winning yet. I think it wants us to think we're winning. But honestly that's just my take

[quartz bison]

neither of us are winning tbh

[tall echo]

Heavily hinted to be a creation from albrecht's fear during that one void trip

Not ancient

[glacial pendant]

They said that his fear gave it shape. Not that it created it.

I Wally already existed but just never showed itself because it didn't encounter any human emotions to give it shape.

It didn't know human language, faces, people etc, it had to learn that from interaction.

Most of the Orokin were indifferent to anything but themselves so they never manifested something, they never gave it shape. But when Albrecht's trip went wrong, he reflected on his life, he feared being meaningless, hurting everyone he loved, not having legacy to leave behind. And this is something Wally can do something with.

Essentially wally needs to fit the brain the size of a whale into a body the size of an ant. Which I think was StallordD's way of describing it.

[lean garden]

if wally is the ripple in the still waters, then wally only existed when an indiot cannonballed themselves into the water

[glacial pendant]

This is why Albrecht thinks "Love" is the poison to his plan: when it doesn't care about those around him, he will wipe us all out of existence in an instant, but when it loves, it'll care too much to not do that.

[lean garden]

I mean, do you think this appropriately tallies with the ending of Whispers in the Wall?

because I'm struggling to see how it fits

[glacial pendant]

Wally was controlling the vessel. Albrecht had to create these vessels so that Wally would have a beating heart, when we controlled our vessel and caressed his cheek, we made it experience human touch. We made it experience love

His intention with the vessel when he took control was to destroy, but we made it feel instead

[lean garden]

and so you think wally cared too much and thus was repelled?

[glacial pendant]

I merely think it was confused by this experience it didn't understand and thus pulled out of the vessel

It doesn't want to feel love. It doesn't want to care.

But if it wants to enter our reality, it needs a vessel.

[lean garden]

scrolling back to this, none of the orokin could have given wally a shape because no one before albrecht went into the void

[glacial pendant]

Well Albrecht said that the Orokin all saw nothing even after Albrecht's experiment. So I don't think it would've had shape regardless if anyone went in there or not.

[lean garden]

they didnt see wally, but evidently we know many a host of characters caught glimpses

yonta saw wally in the reliquary drive

your father felt wally as the zariman crashed

plus given how the void reacted from tuvul just trying to escape into a new body, I don't think nothing would have happened when someone waltzed in

[glacial pendant]

But love is also the key to pushing back Wally with it's current herald Rusalka: She was manipulated wally to be indifferent while she was alone loving a shitty life. We can't defeat Wally with fighting. Killing her won't help

[glacial pendant]

Well that was because Tuvul was using Wally's flesh and blood. And he wasn't happy about it. And neither Yonta nor our father were indifferent Orokin

[tall echo]

He was not

[lean garden]

you uh, must realise that "indifferent orokin" typically applies to an extremely niche subset of the empire right?

they didnt send the golden lords into explore the void after albrecht

[lean garden]

mainly because "they" are the Golden Lords

[glacial pendant]

Kuva

[tall echo]

Ok

[glacial pendant]

You're right yes. Looked it back up on the wiki again and he unleashed the void horrors through Albrecht's Grimoir.

[glacial pendant]

Why I brought up Kuva is that Kuva comes from the void. The man in the wall would have likely had interactions with Orokin through Kuva. But maybe that's stretching it.

[tall echo]

Kuva has void-derived properties

[lean garden]

Which makes it sound like if wally was watching the orokin everytime they engaged with continuity, he'd be scrapping their minds like what he did with albrecht no?

[humble sierra]

👀

new Eleanor chat spoiler

[brittle siren]

strange that in Duviri he said this is the place where he lost his finger

[quartz bison]

when?

[brittle siren]

when he narrating in new Duviri mode

[quartz bison]

whats the quote ? i might have missed it

[lean garden]

I think he's just referring to the part where wally freaks out about how scholar's landing holds the secret to where his finger is

[brittle siren]

btw is anyone found the location of 3 somachord? I only found 2 (1 near the palace one in the final boss area)

[quartz bison]

i found one at the top of some tower

probably not the main big one tho

[sly pagoda]

Wally might be some ancient cosmic god but if video games have taught me anything, those can be slain for loot at some point.

[stray herald]

why didn't the grinder captains become liches

[lean garden]

because they werent candidates nor were they selected

[stray herald]

why weren't they candidates

[lean garden]

why must they be?

[stray herald]

I mean, what makes a grineer guy a candidate

aside from being old

[lean garden]

The Queens choose

[stray herald]

so an unknown criteria, great

[mossy zodiac]

i be asking myself

what the orokin be using those statues for anyways

https://tenor.com/view/treasure-ancient-orokin-treasures-powered-by-endo-sculptures-gif-14230904

couldn't be just for decos

[restive river]

The stars were how they kept memories and info basically

The statues were p much just decorative
But they’re perpetual motion machines

[mossy zodiac]

it's like a giant pendrive then

you put your memories inside

man imagine you just forgot one of those out there

thanks duck

[restive river]

Of course :)

I’m trying to see if there’s more info I can find

[stray herald]

what does ayatan mean

[restive river]

“Whippings. Massacres. Executions. All their favorite memories. That's what the Orokin used those pretty Ayatans for. Channeling Aya, the essence of memory. I just love watching Maroo melt them down. Erasing the Orokin, piece by piece. Some things deserve to be forgotten. Forever. “ -Varzia

[stray herald]

I meant the word

since it's what the entrati family calls us by

[restive river]

I know
That wasn’t directed at you

[stray herald]

ok

[restive river]

Ayatan the word doesn’t have a direct definition

Aya is the memory juice in the stars though
So

Ayatan may just be akin to star tbh

[stray herald]

memory star?

[restive river]

Or even light, memory, etc

It’s how they stored data

[stray herald]

it's guess it's due to the tenno witness the family mend themselves and claim a new identity that they want a way to immortalize themselves

[restive river]

I think they just call us ayatan cause
we’re their twinkling star

[sly pagoda]

from Entrati's thing with the void words. Connections to stars and light makes sense for storage.
Xata. Truth. It began long before us, we who now live our perfect and dull, endless lives. It began long before these moon-palaces and body-markets hurling around our golden Sun. It began long before our light-coil thinkers, our radiation wars, our oil, smoke…

"Light coil thinkers" sounds a lot to me like they had some kind of computing tech that used light.

[gentle wave]

What if Nidus would have all the warframe abilities like if he was a helminth prime versión

[fallen fog]

Perfect Cell Nidus when

That sounds kinda cool

[sage moat]

thats an endurance run legacyte

[gloomy crescent]

Sooo how does Neci Rusalka taking over Duviri relate to the hex, just curious

Or well “that thing” that is Rusalka

I have no clue

[humble sierra]

The quest 'The Hex' or the group?

[strange plinth]

wally/rusalka explains in isleweaver that 'we took her city, so she found a kingdom to rule'

[abstract wyvern]

So....Did Albrecht Make Oraxia or is it the case that Ballas gave her to Big Al as a gift?

[strange plinth]

Albrecht seems to have owned Oraxia, i don't think we have any detail on her actual creation though, albrecht-made or ballas-made

[abstract wyvern]

Got'cha

[tall echo]

Star

[hushed talon]

I was going to ask who made Oraxia or how did she become to be?

My main question is, how did she get to Duviri or why did she follow Rulsaka?

[strange plinth]

seems like she came with albrecht originally
rusalka says something like "albrecht planned to have her help you, you know?"
disappeared with scholar's landing, re-emerged with it as well
though, yk, under wally's control rather than as albrecht's pet/guardian/whatever

[tall echo]

She was in duviri already

[hushed talon]

ah interesting

[graceful swan]

Wally was already in Duviri as Vagabond

[tall echo]

Technically he's not in duviri now

[graceful swan]

Do we know if after completing the mission that Wally actually leaves?

[tall echo]

No

But it's not actual duviri so

[brittle siren]

Btw, I forgot to screenshot but Wally confirmed that during Albrecht stay at Duviri, the Drifter did meet him

Idk if from that time Albrecht know that the Drifter will be important to the Kalymos sequence

And Thrax called Wally a god

[humble sierra]

Was this 'codex' menu always next to Acrithis?

[hushed talon]

its been a thing for a while.

[graceful swan]

It’s been there since the room existed but they updated it to have other fragments not just lost islands

[humble sierra]

Ah, I hardly spend time in the Dormizone so that's why I haven't noticed

I wish it had the same amenities as the Orbiter/Drifter Camp and Backrooms

[hushed talon]

I was trying to find if I could change the dormizone as to my 'base of operations' sadly you cant do that :(

[graceful swan]

DE never planned for Domizone to be more than what it is

[humble sierra]

Besides a lack of space and Helminth fearing the Void, I can't think of any reason why the other items like the Arsenal, Foundry, Mod station and etc. can't be there

[humble sierra]

Good to see they might consider it in the future! If they just slap on another room with all that cluttered in, I'm sure nobody would mind

[hushed talon]

I guess thats all its there for. Too bad, I spent time customising it too.

[graceful swan]

I just used it to store my first 30 mastery slates

[ember ridge]

Is there any lore reason as to why the new Scholars Landing part of Duviri is permanently in the Joy spiral? Seems like a missed opportunity to have all of the Duviri characters join in with voice lines during each of their respective spirals.

[graceful swan]

Thrax seens to imply the others have betrayed him when he says Mathila won't

[ember ridge]

Interesting, I'll have to listen out for more voice lines from him. Still a shame though, would have liked to hear Bombastine throwing witty banter at Neci, or Lodun just absolutely losing his shit!

[humble sierra]

Mathila also has a personal reason to fight MITW

[hexed oxide]

Which ?

[tall echo]

iirc her husband sacrificed himself to get rid of an island wally was taking over

[hushed talon]

thats very sad, I never knew the duviri characters more deep than that. I also thought since they were book characters they wouldnt have any external motives or desires.

Then again, its the void. Anything can be made possible.

[humble sierra]

The story of her husband is in one of the Lost Island fragments

Watcher's Island, I think

[graceful swan]

Yeah

[humble sierra]

Man I should actually bother reading other fragments at some point

"The Island of Lorn" gives info on the Thrax Shrines, something to do with ghosts?

"The Galleria" is about how a Finger landed in Duviri. A giant one. Maybe even the one that's missing?

[graceful swan]

Lorn is also the only known example of the Citizens removing the Island not Thrax

[lean garden]

nah, it specifically wriggles so its not sealed like yonta says

[humble sierra]

The ghosts in Lorn are also super interesting, they would "scream accusations against anyone who came close enough to hear".

I like how they set up Scholar's Landing's return

Well, maybe not its return, but the fact Albrecht seems to have taken it somewhere

[tall echo]

Might be those weird shade enemies we can find in caves

[fickle oar]

Those are described in another fragment actually

[gloomy prism]

So based on the lore Oraxia is one of the tennoless Warframes that's been running around. So she was just in duvari on scholar's landing the entire time. She's still loyal to Albrecht and only Albrecht. She she's similar to The Duke's Dear Freja in dark souls 2.

[fickle oar]

So are there more bodies then just loid's to find in the new duviri?

[strange plinth]

minerva and velimir
iirc one is near the top of scholar's landing, in a little split in the wall. think its near the back
the other is at the bottom of one of the four smaller islands around scholar's landing

[fickle oar]

Interesting

thank you

[ashen pulsar]

Liminus? Those are Thrax’s nightmares

[humble sierra]

Watcher's Island - I've read this one before, but still always fascinating. Basically, Mathila's husband, Garmi, was the warden of a lighthouse, with seemingly no purpose, but he told Achritis that he was "keeping 'it' at bay". Then, while the Operator was completing the Chains of Harrow quest, giant chains fell out of the sky and destroyed it. Garmi was able to record the fact that there was also a giant hand with 3 fingers and a thumb that formed.

The Doll Mausoleum is pretty straightforward so I'll just have some direct quotes: appeared to be a sprawling burial ground, but no bodies in the graves, only "each coffin contained a simulacrum of the human form, in various stages of decay. Entire skeletons carved out of wood. Corpses of rotting straw stuffed into old clothes. Mouldering faces sculpted in crumbling clay. Little bones laboriously whittled down from large bones."

The Doll Mausoleum did not even attempt to imitate an authentic burial structure. It was built to far too small a scale. The cavities within it were tiny, each one holding a coffin that contained a miniature human figure. These were of all genders, often with brightly coloured hair, all wearing odd one-piece hooded suits of black leather.
Thrax was known to visit the Mausoleum, alone. I do not know what he did there.

Lake Verula: a portal appeared underneath a lake and Golden Maw came from the Origin system to here

Manipura Island: Mostly some Duviri lore rather than how the Origin System or MITW bleed into Duviri, which is nice

[thorn bluff]

i have a question. In the normal duviri, since the wally have entered what is that far off land in the distant and also all those eyes watching duviri

when u get close to some children they would be singing about someone watching them

gives me the chills sometimes

[mossy zodiac]

it loves reading about you

[ashen pulsar]

Those children sing some interesting songs

[tall echo]

Where's the question?

[humble sierra]

Far off land could be some of the lost islands, some drifted off on their own. The eyes in the sky are just meant to be weather formations that would mimic the Orowyrms' emotions.

As for the kids singing, I have only heard them sing about Kullervo

[ashen pulsar]

They have a song like “there’s a man in a wall with a smile like a skull so we smile back today”

Joy spiral

[tall echo]

Find ones on other islands

[thorn bluff]

not that

i think the song changed after the update

they kept singing of a man watching them

[strange plinth]

their songs change depending on the spiral

[ashen pulsar]

That’s a joy spiral quote

[thorn bluff]

hmmm

[strange plinth]

"Something's watching through the window,
Watching you and watching me…
Wants what we have, wants to BE us!
We know that can never be."
this it?

[thorn bluff]

yeah

[strange plinth]

envy spiral
i figured it'd be fear, based on the 'watching' bit
but it seems like its just bombastine(?) watching others and envying them for having things he doesn't

[thorn bluff]

is that still related to the spiral?

[thorn bluff]

ohh thanks then

first time i heard them sing that during the update

so i thought it was related to the eyes

[strange plinth]

the "eyes" in the distance are only in envy spiral afaik
backgrounds are linked to the spiral, though they share elements. general void motif and the zariman off in the distance as examples

[tall echo]

There's a huge eye or two in the sky during envy so it is related to eyes

[thorn bluff]

seriously?

looks like i have never entered duviri during the envy spiral

[tall echo]

Yes

[tall echo]

Or you just didn't look at the sky

Gamers don't look up

[thorn bluff]

oh no

i pay serious attention to the enviroment

[tall echo]

-# Unless they're playing nier automata

[strange plinth]

i mean, the song you mentioned is only sang during envy
so you have to have been there during envy

[thorn bluff]

its just during this update i enter envy

so i thought it was update related

[tall echo]

So you did miss the huge eyes in the sky

I wonder why envy is the only spiral with a skybox change like that

[strange plinth]

anger has the big smoke face, doesn't it?

[thorn bluff]

when i was grinding some materials to craft oraxia

[tall echo]

I don't think big smoke's face is in wf

My forgetfulness gives some great pun opportunities

[strange plinth]

it seems so lol

[thorn bluff]

my discord is bugged for some reason

[strange plinth]

yeah, envy has the eyes, anger has the face of smoke, sorrow has a mask? or another face that's crying, joy has the colorful spirals, fear doesn't seem to have anything special, though. sorta blank.

[tall echo]

Fear in general really feels like an afterthought tbh considering it doesn't even appear in the paradox quest

[strange plinth]

i'd always thought that joy was the odd one out
associated with void damage rather than a "regular" element

[tall echo]

That's just bc it's hard to find an element to match it with

Also the 4 base elements were taken

[sage moat]

id like to talk about something.
How many fingers is wally missing?

because in the past i was under the impression it was 2 or 3.
But all modern evidence seems to be saying he has lost A Finger (singular)

[strange plinth]

sounds like one was cut but multiple hit the floor

[sage moat]

this isn't a super big deal probably. i imagine the answer is either wally got his other fingers back but albrecht managed to hide one OR void magic

the void is more concept than matter in my interpretation, so "I'm missing something" is probably more accurate to how wally would view it and represent it than "I'm missing my index and middle finger and possibly my thumb"
Doesn't matter what exactly he's missing, right? its not like he's a flesh and blood person.

[restive river]

I mean his finger was cut
But yes just part of him is missing

Though he can also gift a piece of himself willingly
It’s why his issue was with Albrecht and not us

[humble sierra]

Finna run of the standard Duviri gamemode so I can cause a ruckus in his kingdom for this dumbass comment

[scenic nest]

Man in the wall/rusalka also says something about how they can be your father, and your lover

[restive river]

and friend

and how he can give the dead a voice

it’s all just to try and sway us

[humble sierra]

Yeah MITW is trying to get us on his side, Thrax is just being an arrogant child

[scenic nest]

Rusalkas voice actor delivered that line perfectly, i can feel the hidden malice

[sage moat]

this almost makes me feel like our dad might be more important than we're letting on

[strange plinth]

he's where wally gets "kiddo" from
but that's pretty much all the detail we have

[sage moat]

however that's tinfoil hat-y and KIM seems to give you the option to decide basically everything about your family up to being chosen for the zariman so i doubt there'll be a twist like "your father was actually a trusted confidant of albrecht" or something

but like imagine. that'd be so cool

[sick nebula]

No need for anything like "your father was actually a trusted confidant of albrecht" when we've already got hints of "you were actually a trusted confidant of albrecht" coming from Isleweaver.

[sage moat]

oh? where?

[sick nebula]

Rusalka: "You and Albrecht were pretty close in his Duviri days, weren't you Kiddo? Don't tell me you've forgotten!"
Somewhere in the Isleweaver node

[swift steppe]

so rusalka is dead right

if wally is inside of her surely shes like uh brain dead i guess?

[strange plinth]

wally describes her as "chewed up"
so maybe not dead, but not much is left

[swift steppe]

yeah so shes brain dead

[sage moat]

so rusalka is currently at the stage of the ship of theseus where the ship is completely different

[swift steppe]

great thank you so much wally we cant even save her

hes such a hater

wtf will we tell velimir and minerva then

[swift steppe]

can you say that again but like

more simplified

i dont know what theseus mean

[sage moat]

wally was slowly replacing parts of rusalka with himself and now rusalka is entirely (or nearly entirely) wally, to my understanding

[strong viper]

Ship of theseus is a thing where if you replace every part of the ship of theseus, is it still the ship of theseus or another ship entirely.

[swift steppe]

okay now WHY did he chose rusalka and not viktor like girl isnt wally a man????????

and hes choosing a woman to be like his vessel or something????????????

[strong viper]

No.

[strange plinth]

wally is.. whatever

[swift steppe]

okay

[sage moat]

wally is a cosmic entity i don't think he cares to be entirely honest

[sick nebula]

It looks like it's associated with the Paragrimm/Owl stage. One of four lines she can say at the end of it

[swift steppe]

true

[strong viper]

Considering he takes the player's form which is about as fluid as it gets, I don't think the looks of his physical form is his priority

[sage moat]

i mean thrax was calling rusalka by she/her and wally wasn't like "actually i go by he/him pronouns, kiddo"

[swift steppe]

LMAO

[strange plinth]

though that would be incredibly funny

[swift steppe]

thast wouldve been so funny

[swift steppe]

were so connected

https://tenor.com/view/dragon-ball-gt-fusion-dbgt-goku-vegeta-gif-10527774116095455743

us rn

[sick nebula]

Hmm... that makes me think of: "I go by first-person pronouns, not third-person pronouns"

[swift steppe]

xDDDDDDDDD

anyways wtf is going to happen with rusalka

shes brain dead soon to be wally's vessel from what i understand

[sage moat]

so my take that i think is heavily implied is that rusalka made a deal with wally. the contents of that deal were likely "i'll keep you alive and in exchange (vague nonsense)"

[swift steppe]

wtf will happen when he replaces her with him

[sage moat]

like our deal was "i'll give you void powers and in exchange (vague nonsense)"

[sick nebula]

i.e.:
Wrong: "Wally is dangerous and you need to fight him"
Right: "Wally is dangerous and you need to fight me"

[swift steppe]

i swear to god wally's deals sucks ass

keep making deals but he cant even get what he wants

like idk dude maybe think of doing something else?

[sage moat]

so my take is that wally doesn't need to be making these deals that's not part of his powerset, i think its like a compulsion he feels

[sick nebula]

Another interesting line is:

Rusalka: "Human hands achieve what figments cannot"

[swift steppe]

also with the merch of tennocon do yall think the next chapter is gonna be like

road to tau and it is going to be related to all that rusalka wally thing

if so how

[sage moat]

he was imagined by albrecht as a dangerous faustian demon, so he acts like a dangerous faustian demon. i don't think there's any lore saying he has to make deals to lend others void powers. my proof for this is that he's been wanting our end of the deal for like 5 years now and nothing has happened forcing us to give it to him

[swift steppe]

true

[sage moat]

typically the idea with Fae or Demons that make these kind of bargains is that somehow someway they will get their end of the bargain. run from it, hide from it, somehow the demon gets your soul, or the fae gets your name

[swift steppe]

damn

that reminds me of supernatural idk why

[sage moat]

a deal cannot easily be broken. and unless the void war arc culminates in wally getting our "light" and us fighting to get it back, i don't think there's any supernatural element to his deals. they really are just a promise he's making

and he's really vague about what he's taking

[swift steppe]

this dude is weird

[sick nebula]

Rusalka: "Don't expect too much from the Scholar's writings. Most of it is just tortured love poetry."

[swift steppe]

is this true tho

[sage moat]

i imagine his line to rusalka was something like "I'll save you. You can live forever, ruling over hollvania and the rest of the world. In exchange, all you have to do is let me in."

[swift steppe]

lol hes so evil

this is cartoonish

cartoon evil

[strange plinth]

new alignment dropped

[swift steppe]

huh

[sick nebula]

I dunno if Wally's right about it

Even if it is true, it's not clear whether that's the only version of reality.

[sage moat]

oh btw temporal dust or whatever says its made out of dead universes or something

[swift steppe]

wow thats dark

[sage moat]

how does this at all work with our current understanding of eternalism

[swift steppe]

idk but thats dark

i know how

he took them

and brought them here problem solved next question /j

cant wait to know what the next big update will be tho

[sick nebula]

Rusalka: "Don't tell Mathila [that] it was the crack in her mind that let me in..."

[swift steppe]

what

let who in

what crack

[gentle wave]

How is the techrot capable of expand and control all the "body" of an armored tank?

[sick nebula]

Octopede fight:

Rusalka: "This is your future!"
Rusalka: "I have uses for dealbreakers!"
Rusalka: "My herald looked like you... once!"
Rusalka: "How will I reassemble your pieces?!"

[sage moat]

asking how the techrot is capable of things is a road to madness. reminder that in the future it can create antimatter and open a portal to the sun.

[gentle wave]

Wisp or Nova?

[sage moat]

both, wisp is the portal to the sun and nova is the antimatter

[gentle wave]

[sage moat]

it seems to be able to spontaneously turn energy into matter

and not just sugars --- steel, iron, gunpowder

it can make bullets out of energy. it might be able to make sentients out of energy. and warframes coming from people might have been a one time thing ebcause 1999 implies that it can just spawn warframes casually

ballas was weak,
The Infestation and The Man In The Wall are the two strongest forces in the warframe universe bar none

which is really cool, because our player characters use equal parts Infested power and Void power

we're warlocks to two patrons

[humble sierra]

OOF girl should've dealt with that trauma better

(Which is of course the moral of her story but still, who'd've thunk there'd be consequences)

[gentle wave]

So the helminth can birth a baby warframe just like the Arthur vs Excalibur cinematic?, what the hell im thinking about...

[sick nebula]

Tenno are immune to the Infestation, but the Infestation figured out a way to Infest them anyway:

By giving them super-cool badass (Infested) bodies to wear and decorate.

[humble sierra]

Well, the Warframes are made up by modifying the Helminth strain, so the building blocks are there. The one in 1999 seems to be juiced up by the Void right before it spits the Excal out.

[sick nebula]

Wally!Rusalka: "Tired of your human body? Want me to... reshape it?"

[sage moat]

"Two identical souls raised in such different environments. Haven't you figured it out yet? You're fascinating."
Is she saying the thing we haven't figured out is just that we're fascinating or is there some other secret

im trying to think of other cases of "identical souls raised in different environments"

the lotus, maybe? wally seems to have a particular interest in people whose identity has been somehow shattered by their trauma but that could just be because identity and trauma are major themes of the game

[feral cape]

Its a decayed universe

Wally likely did something to it

[feral cape]

Drifter and operator no?

[sage moat]

yes but what haven't we figured out yet?

my immediate thought was that he was comparing drifter and operator to another set of souls in similar circumstances

so in universe, what is the current status quo? is drifter just fighting back against rusalka in duviri over and over again like we do in game?

or was it a one time fight

[humble sierra]

There's dialogue that suggests its repeated

My guess is that lorewise the other Duviri gamemodes are no longer available

[dire mountain]

Arguably isleweaver is the first real consequence of the Tenno not cooperating

[dire mountain]

Albrecht writes yaoi?

[stiff fable]

Albrecht IS yaoi

[dire mountain]

Who is his self insert

[hexed oxide]

alberto(?)

[stiff fable]

technically we keep going until we've taken all of the Dominus Aureus back

which restores the status quo (except Isleweaver is still there, and could restart)

[hexed oxide]

except rusalka goes "begin again"

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-1999-the-hex-drifter-begin-again-gif-639103360702619643

[brittle siren]

kinda sad that there is no actual quest for the new Duviri node

[sage moat]

id say the node itself has plenty enough lore for us

gameplay wise sure a bigger update would've been more gameplay but like. it also would've taken longer

im sitting with baited breath for tennocon

[ashen pulsar]

wally

[fallen fog]

Unrelated to anything being discussed, I just can't help but notice that duviri is in many ways comparable to the dreamlands. Wally is fairly eldritch in nature, as are its murmur. Clark Ashton Smith was a member of "The Lovecraft Circle****" and, in one of his stories The Seven Geases, the spider god Atlach Nacha weaves bridges between various worlds. Later on, not by Smith himself it was also written in that Atlach-Nacha's network connects to the dreamlands. This would also be the same character Patches the Spider is representing in Bloodborne, though he isn't bridging any worlds together just trolling

If I remember correctly as well the dreamlands is a land where, while some things have a consistent image there is a bit of warping, dependent on each dreamer. I mean heehee, all of the tenno are dreamers who were reached out to by wally. When Eleanor talks about trying to meet her other self and wally attempts to reach out to her, the Void in general is very reminiscent of Lovecraft's "From Beyond", wherein two characters activate a device that sends them to an expanse where their physical body kinda stops mattering. Being in there too long catches the attention of things which live there that are dangerous

I'm not trying to say that anything was directly inspired by lovecraft but my brain picks up bits and pieces

And by lovecraft I also refer to anyone who has contributed to his works

[sick nebula]

"bated", not "baited"

"bate" means a bunch of obscure things related to being absent, restrained, or reduced

Thus "bated breath" = "holding your breath"

[humble sierra]

Bated things were often baited, non?

[sage moat]

thank you i didn't know that

[fallen fog]

I do apologize for cutting in the middle, I am a goober. By this I mean the dreamlands is unintentionally an example of conceptual embodiment or whatever the drifter keeps bringing up, about how the void can make the imaginary real. The dreamlands itself is a dimension that exists within a place that is technically not real, or it's imaginary, but you can be hurt by it.

And I wonder how much influenced duviri. Its name is kinda fitting with places in the dreamlands, such as dylath-leen

[sick nebula]

A lot of idioms involve words that are not obvious if you don't know the origin of the idiom

That's why a lot of guidelines for accessible writing say to avoid idioms: because they are more difficult to understand than "standard" speech.

For an extreme example, consider the Star Trek episode "Darmok", where the crew of the Enterprise encounter an alien civilization that speaks entirely in idioms and it takes them the whole episode to learn to communicate even a little.

[ashen pulsar]

my breath got baited

[brittle siren]

I mean I want it more "interactive"
Like for example: we are sleeping then Thrax calling us in the dream asking for help, and we arrive there, do some mission, then instead of fighting the twin Murmur boss, we meet Neci (aka Wally) and talk, then the boss

BoB has the Jade Shadow quest to give out context of why we doing the operation, it give more meaning

[humble sierra]

A cutscene would be nice

[brittle siren]

Yep

[sage moat]

i mean im disappointed a bit too.

[sick nebula]

Thrax just sends us an email like, "HALP!"

[sage moat]

im just mostly satisfied. i saw it wasn't a quest and went "What? Oh nevermind that makes sense"

[ashen pulsar]

but still

[brittle siren]

This is Koumei situation all over again, beside that Isleweaver is more lore than Koumei's dream or sth

[ashen pulsar]

this shouldn't have been an email lol

[brittle siren]

Imo make it as short as Lotus eater is fine

[stiff fable]

I mean people hated Lotus Eater

....but I do think it needed an intro cutscene

[brittle siren]

Who hate it?????

[sage moat]

lotus eaters was super hyped up tmk

[stiff fable]

fam people were screaming into the void social media about how they'd been lied to

[brittle siren]

Imagine: Wally as Neci appear in dream said "Kiddo, your world is mine and if you want to reclaim it, come a get it" or sth like that

[stiff fable]

Right yeah cutscene

just have Thrax on the throne when the door explode open, the Murmur swarm in and Thrax runs as the Dax die

[sage moat]

imagine if 1999's whole ad campaign and countdown and anticipation ended with the release being a cutscene, a little lore, and like one node

[stiff fable]

Neci sweeps in, marches up to the throne, and does the fist slam

Cue ISLEWEAVER title card

[blissful merlin]

I thought we’d get one with the trailer showing a excal walking up to RUSALKA on the throne before slamming her metal claws on the throne. But I guess that was trailer only cutscene. Would’ve been nice to have at least one!

[stiff fable]

the absolute worst of those is the original lich cutscene

[sage moat]

yeah its really weird they made a cutscene for it... exclusively for a trailer

[brittle siren]

Tbh the disappointment of Isleweaver is like the Koumei update: we hyped up to be sth a lil bit grander, but in the end it just a new mode

[sage moat]

original lich cutscene?

[brittle siren]

And when ppl done farming Oraxia , the mode will probably die after few weeks of the end of Operation

[sage moat]

i disagree its like a way better way to get pathos clamps than the lone story

[sick nebula]

This seems to be the vibe of the whole Isleweaver thing:

Rusalka: "Why not deal with the real source of your problems? Obliterate yourself!"

[brittle siren]

True, but then again, ppl like overbuff from 101 decrees

[stiff fable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhM1unQbXlY

[blissful merlin]

I farmed her within 2 days but I had to take breaks for work lol. I’ve also got her weapon blueprints and everything. And extra event stuff to spare for whenever the community unlocks the signa.

[strange plinth]

that is played in an email after war within, no?

[stiff fable]

nope

[sage moat]

yes it is

[stiff fable]

I have basically all my emails ever

well for content

[sage moat]

i JUST watched a friend stream the story up to TNW. it plays after the war within

i think you can even rewatch it in the codex

[brittle siren]

Also Lone Story and Isleweaver SP mode has major flaw: it does not scale well due to how little buff from decree. Like if you make us choose some random weapon and frame, at least give us more chance to get decree or sth

[ashen pulsar]

is it an email?

I thought its just afterwards

[strange plinth]

it might've been added recently?
replay the quest sometime, i think that's how i got mine
although i did just search my entire inbox and don't have it so maybe i straight up lied

[brittle siren]

Oh this one after the War Within (in mail)

[blissful merlin]

Yea I remember getting that in mail as well

[brittle siren]

The same with Sister

Meanwhile the Coda 💀

[sage moat]

no cutscene for coda but the coda fight has a cutscene so it makes up for it

[brittle siren]

True

Though the second phase cutscene is lame

[sage moat]

and the coda fight is like universally better in every way

[brittle siren]

True

[ashen pulsar]

its mail? I dont think the sisters one was mail

[brittle siren]

They do

[ashen pulsar]

its just after call of the tempestarii

[sage moat]

yeah you can also see the sister and lich cutscenes in the codex in their respective adversary history sections

[ashen pulsar]

its the ending cutscene after sevagoth gets yeeted and explodes

ohhhhh wait

there are two

two cutscenes

for the sisters of parvos

[brittle siren]

Yeah the one Parvos saving that captain
The one he monologue that he once have a bro that so stupid so he create an OC that is his sister

[sage moat]

speaking of.... just trying to get a magnetic kuva sobek and got a magnetic ephemera lich.
+100p i guess

[stray herald]

I wonder why albrecht kept oraxia

[sage moat]

i gotta have like 1000p in ephemera coda at this point too please warframe market i beg of you UPDATE

[ashen pulsar]

ur selling one?

or buying one

[stiff fable]

I mean, any Warframe is a significant combat asset

[sage moat]

selling, it just spawned

[ashen pulsar]

-# sell it to me for 1 plat

what's the bonus?

[sage moat]

40%

[strange plinth]

update 35.5 added the kuva lich and sisters of parvos cutscenes to post-quest inbox messages, and it (the kuva lich cutscene) was updated in isleweaver to be locked behind the same requirements as kuva liches (war within, rising tide, mr 5)

[velvet minnow]

im upset with lore part of new update... i wished for more, even Flare had more sause than Rusalka in Duviri. I wish new updates would have at least one cutscene.....

[ashen pulsar]

ooo nice

[sage moat]

thats the general mood yeah

i think its fine but i think im in the minority there

[strange plinth]

a lot of isleweaver's lore is in rusalka's dialogue and the environment of scholar's landing
i can see where you're coming from (i'd like a cutscene as well), but it isn't terrible either

[stiff fable]

No, it is fine, there's interesting stuff to chew on and it's not a major update

Like, this fits into the same slot as Citrine's Last Wish or Voruna's Hunt, not Jade Shadows

It just feels like it should be bigger since it's a clan operation and a Duviri expansion

[strange plinth]

tbf, those were not big version numbers either, though
Isleweaver is 39, not a 38.X
although Abyss of Dagath seems to hit a similar line

[stiff fable]

mainline updates are just whenever they release everything they've been working on, according to their internal guide of terms

So it's 39 instead of 38.x because it has the Kullervo skin and the Valkyr changes more than anything else

[restive river]

I mean we’ve gotten a lot of lore this update
Wally/Russalka in Duviri
Some of the new KIM chats
We get to even see one of the lost islands
Not every update needs a cutscene

[strange plinth]

true i forgot about the KIM chats
there's some good stuff in there too

[restive river]

The whole spider fragments story too

[dense nest]

they might release it as 39, so that whatever big update next that might be teased at tennocon would be nice number 40

[restive river]

The 3 dead fake people

[strange plinth]

we do like satisfying numbers here

[restive river]

They’ve said isleweaver was the big update of the year iirc

[dense nest]

it is quite big

[restive river]

My guess is whatever we get at tennocon will launch early next year with some prep updates before then
Kinda like lotus eaters

[strange plinth]

yeah, that's what i'm guessing as well

[restive river]

Also if you want a cutscene
We did get the trailer that had some animated bits to it, it’s not in-game but it exists

[velvet minnow]

I actually liked Jade Shadows, i felt like devs actually giving me bit of the needed explanation about universe. Aslo i liked Yareli quest, it was chill, they told you a beautiful story about her and implemented Tony Hawk typo thing. All the 1999 stuff feels quite odd. I love my husband Arthur, but i felt that 1999 is not big enough for new story arc. Remember new war, it was epic, Zariman was good too, Hex? Just bit smaller, and looking back it feels not as good. And KIM, getting 2-3 dialogs per update is diabocal. I may ask for too many stuff, but still, i just like the story too much and I'm hella tired of everyday "okay we're going to chill at 9999 lvl survival AGAIN"

[restive river]

The hex is as big if not bigger than whispers which started the void arc…

Also Yareli’s quest didn’t introduce k-drives

[velvet minnow]

Yes, but at least they remember about their existence yay

[restive river]

Also we got more than 2-3 dialogues lmao
We got plenty for the original members spread across lore and just the hex being themselves

[strange plinth]

7.5 big characters, kinda 2 tilesets, modified mission types
and its not really a new story arc, just a slight branch off of the void arc
the .5 is rusalka, because she's there for the initial quest and, for all solely 1999 purposes, stops existing

[restive river]

1999 is confusing from an outside perspective but makes sense in-universe
Albrecht went there for a reason
He made the vessels from the protos to fight wally
And 1999 serves as a homage to dark sector

1999 and techrot encore has been a major update for the game and lore

Like
It’s the sacrifice or war within of the current arc and it’s bigger than both of those

[velvet minnow]

Yes, but i understood that i misexplained my position. I meant that Hex feels odd because for many years we were centred in Ballas/Nata stuff and HOP 1999. It feels less big because there's less backstory about Hex, all we got was KIM messages mostly.

I just want 1999 to feel more whole, i dunno.

[strange plinth]

i mean, the end of new war was the end of the ballas/natah arc, and the starting point of the void war. whispers expanded on it, and 1999 was the next step

[restive river]

^^^

We were stuck on ballas and natah for years cause of internal complications
Like
Covid pushing back the already pushed back new war even further.

Also 1999 is like
Very fleshed out???

We didn’t just hop straight to it

Also there’s plenty backstory on the Hex? It’s all in KIM which is how they chose to give us the lore this time around

[strange plinth]

and albrecht's conclusion to go to 1999 is shown in whispers and the netracells iirc
although i've never actually read anything related to the netracells i just know there's a big "1999" on one of the boards in there

[restive river]

There’s teasers for it yes

A lot of the big lore has been in fragments
Which
Is not anything new lol

[blissful merlin]

The hex comic remains one of my all time favs

[velvet minnow]

Yeahhhh I loved the comic

[restive river]

Yeah there’s also the comic

So glad i got it physically

[blissful merlin]

When they all get shot down but “revive” and all look like demons ready to pounce on their prey

[velvet minnow]

I'm living in really bad area so i can't get it unfortunately :(

[restive river]

):

[blissful merlin]

I imagine the revive sound plus the look they give and the energy coming off of them. Peak.

[blissful merlin]

Oh no??? I hope you’re ok!!

[restive river]

Well now I want a dub with sound effects…

[velvet minnow]

I'm used to it, but i hope i will move to other place soon and FINALLY get that cool-ass tennocon syandana without being banned

Back to the Hex story, Albrecht's part of lore was really good, i enjoyed it so much, but i feel like 1999 brought us too far away. I think it would be much cooler to see how techrot were spreaded with our own eyes, not from reading KIM messages

[blissful merlin]

NEED it recreated. It’s so peak.

[restive river]

It’s so good 😭

[velvet minnow]

Peak fr

I hope in future updates they would give us more interactive run-around partssssss

[blissful merlin]

I need a warfare 1999 anime special please and thank you. Have it be a 6-9 episode series. I don’t care. GIVE ME A WARFRAME ANIME

https://tenor.com/view/crying-reaction-sad-table-slam-gif-22790012

[mossy zodiac]

🤓

[sage moat]

isleweaver is the big update of the year?

...how big is whatever's revealed at tennocon going to be?

[strange plinth]

whatever's revealed at tennocon probably just isn't this year

[sage moat]

i know, what im saying is that if isleweaver, as relatively small as it is, is "the big update of the year" then that means we're not getting anything bigger for at least 6 months

[strange plinth]

tbf that's not a big deal, last year was a lot of relatively smaller updates

[sage moat]

which means DE is going to be preparing this next big update for six months
That feels like it's going to be big big.

[blissful merlin]

Who said it was the “big” update of the year??? Like who said that? Quote it lol

[strange plinth]

reb or megan on one of the recent devshorts. the one with two or three more people iirc
i'll find it in a moment

[brittle siren]

I mean 1999 was revealed last year and released at the end of the year

Same with Whisper in the Wall

[brittle siren]

Tbf every year there's going to be 1 big update

[blissful merlin]

Yes but not this kind of update

[brittle siren]

What "kind"? New War?

[blissful merlin]

Not an isle weaver size. A big update is whispers size. Or 1999 size

Story content lol

Actual cutscenes etc

Our character speaking to others

That kind of update lol

Also hoping they continue to give us more Kim convos each update they give us. Big or small.

[brittle siren]

what are you on btw? we are talking the big update will be reveal in Tennocon

ofc it not gonna be like Isleweaver or Koumei kind of content

[strange plinth]

yeah, but it was confirmed that isleweaver is the big update of this year

[brittle siren]

apparently, it not

no cutscene and the content can be clear like 3 days

[sage moat]

isleweaver is definitely smaller in size than 1999 or whispers, HOWEVER

[brittle siren]

it certainly big due to the lore (and bunch of rework)

[sage moat]

is it that much of a stretch to say that they're just preparing something even bigger than 1999 and WITW

[brittle siren]

not even near the 1999 level

[brittle siren]

no, this is expected since every Tennocon is a reveal for the next big thing, very big

[brittle siren]

also can you quote where they said this?

[strange plinth]

it was on one of the recent devshorts, combing through them currently to find it

[blissful merlin]

You said “tbf there’s going to be one big uodate” Isleweaver is probs not that big update lol

[brittle siren]

well in PAX they said it a major update

[sage moat]

doesn't matter to me too much. what's the realistic difference here?

[blissful merlin]

Not a BIG STORY one like whispers or 1999 thou…cmon man lol

[sage moat]

we get the big boy in december versus jan/february?

[blissful merlin]

You know what I’m getting at like idk why it’s confusing?

[brittle siren]

that last year lmao

it supposed to be in the same update but Coda was delayed

so technically, it still 2024 expected big content

not 2025

[sage moat]

im saying that if isleweaver is this year's big update, that probably just means the next big update is dropping super early next year, i assume. its a difference of like a month or two

[brittle siren]

I thought you meant whateve will be reveal in Tennocon will be disappointing

[blissful merlin]

No not at all

[sage moat]

lots can happen in a month but i would be willing to wait one month to see a less glitchy trip to tau because itll definitely be tau guys this time for sure

[brittle siren]

yeah my mistake

[brittle siren]

or again, like 1999, it will drop at December

[restive river]

I mean we def aren’t going to Tau this year

[sage moat]

possibly! but probably not if isleweaver was this years biggest update

[brittle siren]

if it really as big as New War, next year is maybe possible

[restive river]

We still don’t have a definitive reason to go to Tau nor a method to go there

[sage moat]

oh im joking i don't think we're going to tau soon. maybe not ever.

tau copers are just funny. they got a point this time though that tennocon trailer was suspicious

[restive river]

I think it makes sense as a potential location eventually but there’s no reason presently

[sage moat]

i don't think its tau but its definitely something sentient. it might just be caliban prime but that feels too little to have such intense sentient theming as the drops

[brittle siren]

well 1 reason is Albrecht mentioned it

[restive river]

It’s def sentient related
The armor set
The relay being a murex tile

[restive river]

Eh, that’s about it
And tbh him saying “tau in sight” could easily be an expression

[brittle siren]

and in Kim chat Drifter said Albrecht is hiding the real finger

[restive river]

We don’t know why he’d go there

[restive river]

Which chat?

[sage moat]

sorry some of my messages are like not grammatically correct its late over here

[brittle siren]

today

[restive river]

We don’t all get the same chats :p

[brittle siren]

let me hop on the game real quick

well it said he took "fingers"

idk if the real one is with him

[proper barn]

Not tau this year or even next I don't think. Need 3rd Orb fight and infested update first.

[brittle siren]

Infested got a Techrot treatment already

[proper barn]

Not for the OLD BAD TILES

I WANT THE INFESTED SHIP TILESET TO NOT SUCK.

[strange plinth]

and that phorid model

[brittle siren]

Orb is kinda a small content tbh, consider that it literally just a big spider on Venus that barely have any impact

[proper barn]

We HAVE SEEN THE NEW MODEL OF THE INFESTED SHIPS

[brittle siren]

well DE is slowly rework old boss, so maybe those are coming along the way

[restive river]

The devs have said they wanna do something with the third orb

[proper barn]

Okay I would assume it would talk about Erra cuz its controlled by a Pazuul drone.

[brittle siren]

I think it going to be Jade Shadow kind of update

[restive river]

And with the narmer drone
Yeah a narmer orb is plausible

[restive river]

Oh I can def see that!
Something like Isleweaver

Maybe more Little Duck content!

[brittle siren]

Yareli Prime trailer did have a strange Orb model so maybe it a hint

[restive river]

Also on this
They def mean the original fingers

Since we have access to technically at least 2 that aren’t originals

That being railjack and zariman fingers

[brittle siren]

yeah
also Wally said in Neci body that we did meet Albrecht when he staying in Duviri

[restive river]

Yeah

Though the Drifter does not remember lol

[brittle siren]

so did he make the Sequence base on meeting the Drifter?

[restive river]

If I had to guess the Drifter and Thrax met him when the two were still besties

[restive river]

Sequence base?

[brittle siren]

the Sequence need Drifter, not the OP

[proper barn]

It did?

[brittle siren]

which is strange that how Albrecht even know that until Wally said that he did meet Drifter

[restive river]

Oh the Kalymos Sequence?
That needed the chosen operator which is both the Operator and Drifter

[brittle siren]

it like the exploiter orb but slightly different color and lè model

[brittle siren]

but the 1999 part only need Drifter

[restive river]

Yes
To end the sequence

[brittle siren]

so most of it Drifter could do it alone

[restive river]

Eh not really?

Drifter was trapped in Duviri
And
Operator is the chosen Operator

[strange plinth]

that would require albrecht assuming that drifter eventually leaves duviri, which they can't without outside help

[restive river]

Drifter was chosen for 1999 cause their experience with timeloops

[restive river]

Also assuming the Drifter would even be useful once they left

[brittle siren]

Albrecht could have calculated all of the possibilities, hence the "nuke" is one of his first solution

[restive river]

You’re giving him a bit too much credit tbh

He’s smart but he can’t calculate every possible scenario

[sage moat]

albrecht, all things considered, isn't really that smart

[brittle siren]

I mean
The man could just slip away from a god like being is a big feat

[restive river]

He’s science smart

[sage moat]

he has fantastic tech, don't get me wrong, but he's lacking like. basic critical thinking.

he's a scientist, yeah

[strange plinth]

he has been running for a while, and wally seems to be catching up

[restive river]

He’s a scientist from a class of people who considered themselves gods
Dude’s ego is bigger than his brain

[brittle siren]

not as big as Ballass though

[restive river]

Oh for sure
He’s still up there though

[sage moat]

hence the funniest lore tidbit in the game, imo
One of his first thoughts on how to fight an eldritch void god was
"What if i make a BIGGER warframe"

[restive river]

I mean one of Albrecht’s big ideas was “let’s throw animals at it”
Which
He came up with while high and it didn’t even work :p

[proper barn]

Is it not the profit taker?

[brittle siren]

it much smaller than profit

[proper barn]

I still stand by Fib and friends only lived cuz of what Fib did.

[sage moat]

to be fair while the cavia experiments were incredibly inhumane and cruel they weren't a bad idea!
Void mirrors what you toss in, so toss in some dumb as bricks animals.
I would've stopped after the first or second or 50th instead of however many albrecht did but still

[restive river]

Probably yeah
It’s a horrible situation no matter what unfortunately

[sage moat]

the way albrecht talks about it makes it sound like he did the experiment enough times to have literal piles of bodies taller than he is in his lab

[brittle siren]

Albrecht sound like Thanos lmao

[restive river]

Which tbh he should’ve realized at some point that uh. Nah this ain’t it

Like idk maybe after the first PILE??

[proper barn]

Well they came back dead and mutilated. What I assumed and still think is that what Wally would do is basically make the sentient and give them the ability to speak in void tongue and then immediately kill them. Cuz that's what he was doing until Fib shunted him out which also killed Min.

[brittle siren]

the most decent Orokin is the Daughter tbh, she only racist with Grineer but she no longer do that anymore after met Kahl

[proper barn]

I would say G-Ma she actually uses her wealth to help kids.

[restive river]

Growth!!

[strange plinth]

albrecht prolly has (over) 50 darts that missed for every bullseye he hit

[sage moat]

ballas was evil because he was obviously malicious and incredibly manipulative. albrecht is a more insidious evil.
He's a stupid genius.

[brittle siren]

yeah but she kinda cruel to let the family to fight each other and let us do all the job

[proper barn]

I mean she made them fight so they would ask for help and thus had us come to help fix them.

[brittle siren]

true

[restive river]

I still like that old theory she was the girl from the bluva story
It’s most likely not canon for a good few reasons but the girl in the story seems in character for gma

[brittle siren]

she is smart though

[sage moat]

he thinks he's the greatest person to ever live and only he can stop this great evil he's unleashed and oh woe is him someone get him a blanket and some hot coacoa

[brittle siren]

yeah I think most stories have her in it, beside the Grineer werewolf one

[proper barn]

I wouldn't say stupid. Also even current conversations with Arthur from the update is like "Albretch might really suck but we gotta beat Wally first maybe with his help and then we can kill Albretch if we want to." Which very funny to me.

"We beat Cthlulu and then after if we want to as a treat we can kill the person that maybe made him."

[sage moat]

meanwhile so far his plans for stopping the indifference have been:

1. big warframe
2. don't love anyone
3. shoot dogs into it
4. drop a nuke on it
5. love people?

[brittle siren]

also now I just remember, what if the next big update is the guy who put the Kuria down all over the place /j

[restive river]

I mean the bluva one likely isn’t like
Real, much like the werewolf one

[proper barn]

Yeah. I still want Blue Kuva to be in the game damnit i love blue kuva. AND THE WEREWOLF INFESTED.

[restive river]

The werewolf infested are more probable than bluva

[proper barn]

I LOVE BLUEVA

[brittle siren]

I think the OP is kinda the extension of blue kuva

[proper barn]

No?

[restive river]

What even

[proper barn]

That's wrong.

[brittle siren]

no I don't mean 1 to 1

[restive river]

Bluva is just diet transference

[sage moat]

i still want a full werewolf frame but given voruna exists i don't know the likelihood of that. maybe de will make a really cool augment for it or something

[restive river]

And also, again, probably not real

[earnest cobalt]

Real.

[restive river]

Considering we got Khora and now Oraxia?

Ember/Octavia and Temple

[brittle siren]

also in the Bluva story, how those 3 did not feel any pain when in those twisted corpse?

[restive river]

Who says they didn’t feel pain

[dire mountain]

I want a dinosaur warframe

[sage moat]

ember/octavia and temple i get but how is oraxia similar to khora (i don't play khora... YET)

[brittle siren]

when they wearing it to scared other Orokin

[strange plinth]

khora is much farther from her original spider theme than voruna is from "werewolf," though

[proper barn]

I don't think werewolf is that unlikely tbh. Have a actual like sevagoth style transformation. We have multiple of the same idea frames. Like protea and vauban are the same. What I want though is EXALTED NECRAMECH PLEASE DE.

[restive river]

Khora’s theme is that of a spider

[blissful merlin]

What would an Oraxia proto frame look like. Madame web? NOT THE SONY VERSION😭😭

[brittle siren]

Khora is like those ppl who train tiger in circus tbh

[restive river]

Among other things ofc

[restive river]

No?

[brittle siren]

her 4th is a cage not really a web

[restive river]

She does not whip venari

[strange plinth]

not to say we can't have a more proper werewolf frame, ofc, just that i think it'll be a little bit

[brittle siren]

she literally have a whip

[restive river]

It acts as a web lol

[restive river]

She does not whip her cat 😭

[proper barn]

Oraxia to me is one of the first actually good minion frames lmao. She's cool. I can see the cool augments now.

[restive river]

Caliban:

[brittle siren]

I mean irl they don't use it to whip the animal anymore

[proper barn]

I said good minion warframe.

[restive river]

I want an augment for oraxia that lets her climb on surfaces

[proper barn]

But also is his augment good?

[brittle siren]

(in the old past maybe)

[brittle siren]

yes yes yes

[restive river]

Yes

[brittle siren]

decent

[proper barn]

I think that might be a augment they just couldn't get it working in time.

[restive river]

They def did
Circuses were/are known for animal cruelty iirc

Not all but some

[blissful merlin]

I feel like her Gemini emote would be her wrapping herself up in a web cocoon and breaking free from it.

[brittle siren]

also I hate Oraxia can't bullet jump properly

[strange plinth]

#warframe-general message

[restive river]

Yeah

[strange plinth]

was it stated why that wasn't part of the ability? or just that it was being attempted and ended up not coming to release

[sage moat]

have we considered the werewolf frame can be an exalted necramech frame. that's an option. the necramech is a hunched over mechanical werewolf. maybe the idea can be that the frame was made as a way of "saving" a necramech pilot from the old war who was severely wounded when deimos got nuked

[brittle siren]

like if you press the "V" button, instead of reset the crouching state, it still put her sliding the ground

[blissful merlin]

From what I’ve heard they just couldn’t get that part functioning properly in time.

[restive river]

On the topic of protos
I like that DE l, with KIM and the Hex have basically said “yeah maybe more protos”
Though I doubt we’ll get any fir a while

[proper barn]

They couldn't get it working in time I think.

[proper barn]

Could be cool. I just want a exalted Necramech it would be so cool.

[blissful merlin]

Oh same. Maybe not for a while but at least they’re confirming it’s on their minds and out there within the lore winds of warframe lol

[brittle siren]

void angel frame with their 4th is a giant Void Angel as a mech

[proper barn]

Putting you in the contraption.

[sage moat]

sometimes a frame really needs a single idea to home in on. this is an issue with revenant

[strange plinth]

still hoping we'll get one for 1999 void fissures

[proper barn]

Oh also the new Kim messages are also "we won't forget about them".

[brittle siren]

iirc they said they are working on it

[sage moat]

his abilities say vampire but his design and lore say eidolon. both are undead but to me at least it still ends up as a kind of confused design

[proper barn]

Oh they also talked about making the Zariman apartment a actual home base.

[restive river]

1/6th of all frames got protos so
Def no more for a bit :)

[restive river]

Yeee

[proper barn]

I know people asked this for a long time.

[blissful merlin]

YEPPPP. I WANT MORE BUT IM HAPPY TO WAIT!!!!!

[restive river]

I do kinda hope Albrecht keeps maybe running throughout time, making more protoframes
But
We shall see

I’m excited to see what’s next in store :)

[brittle siren]

i still hate that Dormizone take 10s to enter when doing it on the map

[proper barn]

Eh

[blissful merlin]

That’d be cool if he ended up going to other time periods to insert protos into

[brittle siren]

(unless you play solo it only 5s)

[restive river]

Dormizone in steel path is crazy difficult

[strange plinth]

do we know of any other big "turning points" that he could go to?
maybe the 18th radiation war or something?

[blissful merlin]

I’m scared to even try Temportal Archimedea or whatever it’s called lol. I’ve not tried it once but man I don’t want to mess my team up

[brittle siren]

normally when you play public mode, any node will take 10s to go there (beside relay, Iron Wake etc)
but for some reason, Dormizone node do the same even without anyone in your squad. Unless you press solo mode, you will always get 10s delay, unlike any other "relay" type node

[restive river]

Def the 18th radiation war
I’d love to meet lephantis (not the boss the dude named lephantis)

[sage moat]

well 1999 is special because the people paying for scaldra are implied to become the ancestors of the orokin

[restive river]

You’ll be fine :)

[brittle siren]

also Drifter confirmed radiaton war is to kill Techrot

[restive river]

Oh for sure
Albrecht also calculated he needed to go to 1999
Somehow

[sage moat]

that's dumb. techrot is weak to magnetic not radiation

[restive river]

I think we knew that already
For the 18th at least

[brittle siren]

they kinda is, they already have the "we move to the moon and enslave normie" mindset

[sage moat]

see albrecht had the right idea using a nuclear reactor to kill the murmur. game supports that idea

[restive river]

Well if you nuke it hard enough it will die
Meanwhile on more 1:1 combat throwing some magnets at a PC makes sense

[blissful merlin]

Albrecht I need your notes from your date of birth to present asap…you don’t have all that info? FIND. A WAY. TO GET IT TO ME” RAHHHHH🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️

[strange plinth]

ignore constricted loadout for your first go, unless you have equipment you're confident with in there
(mine was nice to me and gave me good weapons and my main frame lol)
as long as you can survive on your own, most people won't have an issue if you're not "actively contributing"

[brittle siren]

imagine DE make a frame that explode like a nuke, deal 100% true hp dmg on ALL enemy include bosses, but can't be revived and instead have to wait a timer

[strange plinth]

qorvex augment: demon core

[sage moat]

qorvex augment where if you use his 4 it just starts a particle accelerator

you need to wait about 2 minutes and instead of shooting a beam it deletes the tileset

[restive river]

I doubt we’ll ever see it but I’d love more on the old war

[sage moat]

i think we'll see more

if only so we know what other characters were up to and what our deal was

[brittle siren]

imagine we actually go to the past and prevent the finger of Wally getting cut

since Kaya is develop a new way to time travel

[restive river]

Grandfather paradox, too big, would change too much including us going to stop the finger from being cut

[brittle siren]

that would create time paradox yes

[sage moat]

on one hand, wally is no longer wanting his finger
on the other hand, wally is now maybe extremely powerful?

[restive river]

Like
A really big one

[proper barn]

WELLL WE KINDA KNOW?

[blissful merlin]

That would change so much lol

[proper barn]

well we know what we agreed to.

[restive river]

Orokin would still be in power
No tenno
Maybe no sentients
And no Wally, or not as we know him at least

[sage moat]

we gave him our "light" which i have my own theory on and you have your own theory on and evveryone has their own theory on and no one knows for sure

[strange plinth]

imagine our side of the deal is just 'get my finger back lol'

[proper barn]

YEAH now what did that mean? we don't know.

[brittle siren]

Wally with finger is too strong

[restive river]

If Oro is real I’m banking on our light being that
Otherwise it def relates to our self in some way

[proper barn]

@strange plinth no it's this.

[sage moat]

oro?

[brittle siren]

the "give me that page and consider it as part of our deal" hinting this

[dire mountain]

This should not be an augment this should legitimately just be a feature they add to her mater down the line

[proper barn]

NOW what does it MEAN? idk. IT MIGHT ALSO MEAN like what the Holdfasts talk about.

[sage moat]

like O.R.O., the scaldra payers?

[proper barn]

cuz the Holdfasts talk about ouR LIGHT?

[blissful merlin]

They need to canonize ORO at this point lol

[dire mountain]

Because afaik? It was supposed to happen they just couldnt get it to look right

[restive river]

Which begs the question
If he had his finger before then why didn’t he do anything til it was cut?
Probably cause he didn’t exist or. Didn’t exist in any way that “mattered”

[proper barn]

Albretch Says oro is dumb.

[dire mountain]

ORO has been canon since 1999

[proper barn]

that was my favorite oro qoute is just him it's dumb.

[dire mountain]

Those are the reactor people

I think

[restive river]

I like the idea Wally existed as more nothing within the void like all void constructs

[blissful merlin]

I KNOW BUT YOU KNOW WHAT U MEAN

[brittle siren]

He probably still curious, he also won't have any knowledge at that time

[restive river]

And Wally just
Wants to make things nothing, entropy, chaos

[restive river]

He wouldn’t have anything

[proper barn]

anyway back to this I WONDER IF OUR LIGHT is what the holdfasts mean? but would we have had our powers at that point?

[brittle siren]

his finger got cut probably motivate him to "toying" more with the void power

[proper barn]

idk.

[restive river]

He’d be nothing
Not the concept from a man who saw himself as nothing

[blissful merlin]

The temporally decay we get a resource item is very interesting but also kind of depressing lol

[restive river]

More like motivated him to hate albrecht

[brittle siren]

yeah

[restive river]

And really all Orokin

If Wally existed before Albrecht stepped into the void then he was nothing, same as the rest of the void

The void and Wally became more than nothing when he stepped in

[blissful merlin]

Temporal Dust:

The dust of decayed universes, rich in entropy. Entrati’s research postulates it as the animating agent of the nightmarish Murmur.

Gives me Loki vibes but major depression lol

[brittle siren]

yeah I think Wally came to be when Albrecht touch the void

[restive river]

Bro really was wanting 1999 to feed on the possibilities

[proper barn]

chat

what are the 2 types of vampire chat?

[brittle siren]

so wait
is those universe the one that Wally kill the OP after he shake the hand with OUR OP

[restive river]

Is nothing
Random blue dude steps in
Copies him and sucks out his memories
Do a funny grin and reach out
Get the worst papercut ever
Swear vengeance on all blue people

[brittle siren]

1 that scared jesus

[blissful merlin]

That’s what I’m wondering

[restive river]

Probably yeah

[brittle siren]

1 that scared of the painter

[proper barn]

vampire cats.

[blissful merlin]

All those version that seemed to die out before the handshake was official.

[restive river]

Wally seems to feed on possibilities

[strange plinth]

-# wally greentext is not what i expected to see today

[brittle siren]

https://youtu.be/ZE8MyNIX__o

[blissful merlin]

Wally my hungry king. He needs to go feed on the Fortnite omniverse. There’s a trillion potentials for him to feast on there lol.

[restive river]

REAL

[strange plinth]

how was that.. an embed but not a link for a second

[restive river]

go eat that slop walldo

[brittle siren]

I love the VA laughing so much as Wally

[sage moat]

my interpretation will remain that wally just needs a dad or mom

wally is a child and has been relentlessly traumatized since birth

ill play catch with wally. come here sport

[restive river]

Tbh Wally sounds like the Trickster from doctor who in some ways
There’s actually a few doctor who characters that give wally vibes

The trickster literally wants pure chaos to feed off of and ig changes little things to do so
I can see Wally doing that 100%

[restive river]

He killed your parents 😭

[brittle siren]

Toymaker too

Or Lux

[restive river]

Yeah!
Heck they had an episode that mentioned Anansi recently!

Doctor who on that Wally arc fr fr

[sage moat]

im not holding wally accountable for all those murders when he's essentially a confused child with godly powers

[restive river]

If you won’t I will
pumps love shotgun

[brittle siren]

He definitely know what he is doing though. The only confused Wally is when his finger was cut

[restive river]

^^

[sage moat]

does he though? does he understand the value of life? does he know what or who he is? the way i read his lines, he's no better than dominus thrax

dominus thrax intentionally murders you a bunch.
he's also like, what, 10? if i was a king or god when i was 10 i'd have a kill count too containing anyone who made me mad

[restive river]

I mean Thrax is arguably better
He sucks but. He is literally just a child

Wally isn’t a child
He’s never been a child

[brittle siren]

He doesn't understand but he does do it for fun. Like killing parents is not necessary at all

[sage moat]

there's where we disagree

[strange plinth]

even if he doesn't know the extent of what he's doing, he wields his power maliciously, like making the parents go mad first

[brittle siren]

Tbh since he stem from Albrecht mind, he grow up much faster. He kinda childrish and throw tantrum when we doing sth that he hate

[restive river]

In his literal first moments I would not describe his actions as “innocent child”

[sage moat]

let me pull that up real quick

[restive river]

Which he literally did to see what would happen

[brittle siren]

Tbh he inherited Albrecht attributes to experiment on other ppl

And creature too

[restive river]

He was born from his mind

And if we take what Albrecht said was in his mind?
It makes sense Wally turned out how he did

He’s not a child, he’s not innocent, he knows what he’s doing and he does it on purpose

Thrax is literally a forever child, he’s not innocent either though

[brittle siren]

I wonder, if we kill Albrecht, will Wally just collapse and disappear

[restive river]

One of these was made to have tantrums
The other wasn’t

[restive river]

If he does then there’s no tenno either
Probably

It’s unclear what our exact situation with having a piece of him is

We just have it and our DNA is void saturated which makes us easy to track on the timeline ig

[sage moat]

i can't find the fragment with wally's first appearence on it

[brittle siren]

Imagine that Wally fingers is literally one of Albrecht having rn

[brittle siren]

It from the Necraloid room

[restive river]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/fragments-albrecht-entrati/

[sage moat]

thank you

i always go to the wiki instead of orokin archives, a rookie mistake

[restive river]

I made the archives link a shortcut on my phone lol

[brittle siren]

Wait
So Wally hunting the OP because they have a piece of Wally?

[restive river]

No
He gave us that willingly

[brittle siren]

Yes, but I mean it still part of him right

[restive river]

He’s hunting Albrecht cause he cut his finger and let the Orokin use them

[sage moat]

why don't you think wally's first actions were benevolent?

[restive river]

Yes

[brittle siren]

Tbf that from Albrecht POV so we don't know since he panic a lot

[restive river]

At most they were of curiosity, but it was not benevolent

[sage moat]

how im reading it, he called albrecht by a childhood nickname and then albrecht got scared and ran

[brittle siren]

So he maybe pursuits us because he need that part to at least stronger to get the last finger

[sage moat]

that's... kinda creepy. not particularly evil sounding

[restive river]

He
He was sucking the memories from his mind 😭

[strange plinth]

you break into the Nothing, and you're there, staring back at you, grinning. "you" calls you by a childhood nickname.

[restive river]

If Wally is effected by Albrecht in any way, which he likely is due to their first encounter and due to how the void works, then Wally wasn’t benevolent
He’s born from fear and the feeling of being nothing.

[brittle siren]

Hm I wonder
Can we just use the void to make a Wally 2.0

[restive river]

Wally is a product of the void same as any other void entity
Emotions and concepts
So we can look at what albrecht felt and had in his mind when he went in and they weren’t good things
They weren’t entirely bad either so
Why is Wally now so evil?

[brittle siren]

Instead born of fear, this one born from loveeee

[restive river]

Also like Wally straight up just wants things to be nothing

Name an actually benevolent thing Wally has done

[sage moat]

the point i think im trying to get at here is that you are correct! however, wally being born of those things is just a form of abuse inflicted upon him. wally wanting things to be nothing is a product of how he was "raised"
And i think how we defeat wally will not be via some big battle where we punch him back into the void forever, it will be us teaching him love and the value of life

[dire mountain]

I can name one event that had a good outcome even if it was for the worst reasons

[sage moat]

nothing. but i can't blame him for that when all he has known since being created was pain and suffering!

[dire mountain]

So not much

[restive river]

Oh for sure
Or he can’t understand that and we find another, similar way

[brittle siren]

Save us from himself

[restive river]

We can’t just not hold him accountable and honestly I don’t think our tenno should or can forgive him even

[brittle siren]

Please DE make us create Wally born from love to fight the current one

[sage moat]

its complicated and i think whether or not we forgive him will be left up to player choice

[dire mountain]

Dualism

[sage moat]

i will 100% forgive him. even performing horrible atrocities, i can't just forever despise someone whose interacting with the world the only way he's been taught to.
I will not blame you for not forgiving him.

[restive river]

I mean you might be able to but I don’t think our tenno can

Did they forgive the Orokin?
Would you??

What if Daughter did something horrible?
It’s just how she was raised

We can stop him, show him the value if life, love and being but that does not mean we have to forgive him for what he did
And if the answer is to make him more of a something than a nothing then that should come with the bad parts too, like not being forgiven for horrible things you’ve done

[sage moat]

the orokin showed no signs of reform. they looked at love again and again and cast it aside. they abused and killed knowing exactly what they were doing not because they were taught to do so but because they found it fun. i think wally will realize the consequences of his actions, i think he'll attempt reform and it is up to us to forgive him.

[restive river]

I could see that if we can help him and he sees what is right that he would go on to help however he can

[restive river]

I don’t think he will tbh

[brittle siren]

Imagine he become a vendor after all of this

[restive river]

He doesn’t seem the type to contemplate his actions or reform just cause

[brittle siren]

But to be honest, how can DE cook another villain like Wally level

[restive river]

He is
Literally the embodiment of entropy and indifference atm

[sage moat]

im not saying we have to forgive him! im saying if i was in our tenno's shoes i think i would. and i think DE will give us the option of whether to forgive him or not once we get it through his head that life and love and emotion mean something.
but at this point im basically writing fanfic

[restive river]

Also like
Wally’s influence will have to always stick around to some extent cause. The murmur exists and. They aren’t going anywhere?

[sage moat]

that's where i think the game is going, story wise. that's my little game theory. feel free to disagree, it largely comes down to your interpretation of the character and themes of wally and warframe as a whole.

[sage moat]

this is also a pretty relevant hole in the theory

[strange plinth]

we're already at a weird point in powerscaling where every new enemy has to be more powerful than the last, in one way or another, and i don't know how we can one-up wally should he fully "ally" with us

[feral cape]

I mean

It wouldn't be that hard

[dire mountain]

Imagine hes like "IVRIS XATA KANETRA, MARA LOHK"

[feral cape]

Also the rule of escalating threats isn't that they have to be more powerful its that they need to be more dangerous

[restive river]

Put yourself in your tenno’s shoes
Which I’m assuming you’re doing but work with me
You’re just a kid on a ship, something goes wrong, a weird copy of you shows up and is all mysterious
In one reality you get powers and are forced to kill insane adults that you later learn were insane because of him, you also either watch, hear or kill your parents
I’m not gonna go through all of it but. Due to Wally (and ofc the Orokin) the Tenno’s lives have been a living hell

Wally is responsible for the death of our parents, the entire zariman crew, an alt version of us being trapped and what was his motive?
To see what would happen :)

[sage moat]

yeah its real real easy for me to preach forgiveness when i didn't have to murder my parents

[feral cape]

What if his love is war

[restive river]

What if we can find love on the battlefield

And the battlefield
Is wally

[feral cape]

What if his showing of "love" is some act of extreme violence