lore-discussion

[restive river]

Which at most it’d be Scaldra was phased out when the Orokin didn’t need them anymore
Eventually they make the Grineer work force
And somewhere along the line Parvos comes up with the Corpus
Cousins in design, not really in universe

[slow bramble]

YES

[restive river]

You could say the Orokin are the Kin produced from ORO

[slow bramble]

It's a cultural cross over, not an actual one

[restive river]

Yee

[slow bramble]

Amd actually, weren't the Queens warriors once?

[restive river]

Kinda
They were Orokin

Then lead the Grineer

[slow bramble]

So maybe they had access to historical records, and that's where the cross over happens

[restive river]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/kuria/

[restive river]

Problem: the Orokin kinda destroyed everything from Old Earth

And the Queens gained power long after that happened

[sage moat]

i think my main issue is the disconnect in tech but also look at the 1700s and now look at now.
Is it even a stretch, realistically, to say humanity could reach orokin tech in like.. 500 years?
Irl probably not, given that their tech breaks physics, but in a world where that doesn't matter? where there's not a cap like that on human growth? Yeah an empire ruling for 500 years isn't too farfetched. though it means things happened FAST at the end there and ballas is way younger than i thought

[slow bramble]

Didn't have to have power. Just know the aesthetics.
The corpus likewise could have originally been the building/contractor arm of ORO

Which Is way easier to track tbh

[strange plinth]

we do have a more definitive origin for the corpus iirc

[restive river]

Corpus came during the Orokin Era not in 1999

[restive river]

We do
Which is why Scaldra has no connection to them

Parvos isn’t that old

[sage moat]

the corpus and grineer both have solid starts post-establishment of the orokin empire, i don't think its too far fetched to just say scaldra is meant to be the corpus and grineer rolled into one and then the techrot is the third in the trinity

[slow bramble]

Okay fair

He DOES have access to a time traveler himself though...

[restive river]

Cousins in general design outside of universe
No real connections in universe

[restive river]

Doesn’t mean he did that

Also
He doesn’t have access to Protea anymore

[sage moat]

i really like Grineer - Corpus - Infested as a "trinity" of sorts. Treating them as the norm makes the other factions feel more special. If the grineer corpus and infested are constantly fighting, that means its a BIG deal when the sentients or corrupted show up alongside them

[restive river]

He had a specter
We beat her
He has his own void but no form of time travel

[slow bramble]

Ah okay

[normal mountain]

Also doesn't mean Protea could travel back that far, even if she was still at Parvos' side

[restive river]

And while things can be rewritten we have never seen him rewrite that
Or
Anything

[restive river]

This too

The only ones to rewrite time are us and Albrecht

[slow bramble]

Cause dear God if he finds Out Entrati time traveled we KNOW he's gonna get on that

[restive river]

Well thankfully Loid destroyed the time machine

[sage moat]

i mean in the game protea can't go back before her temporal anchor, meaning in universe her ability probably can't stretch back before her creation, if i had to guess

[restive river]

And I don’t think Parvos could utilize Vessel time travel the same way we did

[frigid path]

If the whole reason entrati wen to 1999 was to avoid Wally why was Wally still there

[strange plinth]

he does know, based on the protea prime trailer
he just doesn't know how

[restive river]

Wdym

After 1999 Wally leaves for Duviri

[slow bramble]

Oh yeah that reminds me, what happened with Parvos and SU after that?

[restive river]

At most his Murmur still leaks in but bro left

[sage moat]

one second let me get the quote

[normal mountain]

I mean, he did design Protea with time manipulation abilities
chances are, he knew and figured out how to time travel too, just not to the same level as Entrati

[restive river]

Parvos went on to be more evil and SU is vibing while we still save their people

[frigid path]

I mean yeah but how was he there in the first place

[sage moat]

"So... Albrecht made it to 1999 in one piece. But that thing is still on his heels. Albrecht rarely smiled, after his return from the Void. And never like that... I smashed the casket for NOTHING! IT FOLLOWED HIM ANYWAY!"

[frigid path]

I thought he wasn’t able to get there but he took over rasulka

[restive river]

He designed her but Ballas had to make her
Which if I had to guess Ballas was the one with the proper info and application.

[restive river]

Russalka.

[frigid path]

Ok so I’m on the same page as loid then lol

[restive river]

We don’t know how he got to her, possibly the ARG, but he used her as a door.

[sage moat]

i don't think we know exactly how wally got into 1999, only that rusalka was the crack he used to get in. i have a theory but its far from confirmed

[strange plinth]

implied that the 1999 ARG 'let him in' via rusalka

[normal mountain]

To which, I refer you to the Protea Prime trailer
Ballas protests at the idea of manipulating time

[sage moat]

what was the 1999 ARG, can i get a refresher on that

[frigid path]

I wanna say the bomb but idk

[restive river]

Bro still worked with Parvos and implemented it

[slow bramble]

Parvos never struck me as being more evil.
He just had his own stuff and aside from being like "you two seem interesting... perhaps we should talk" he hasn't touched them

[restive river]

Well he is literally more evil
Like he looks at the other corpus like “y’all could be more evil” essentially :p

[sage moat]

SU?

[restive river]

Parvos is not a good guy

[sage moat]

Solaris united?

[restive river]

Ye

[slow bramble]

Ballas "even Entrati can't violate time!"
Parvos: "I have violated Entrati!"

[slow bramble]

I need examples

[normal mountain]

I'll admit, I'm not sure whether he was saying 'it can't be done' or 'I don't really want to'
But seemed to me that Parvos had more know-how than Ballas at time stuff

[restive river]

Loid: 🙀

[sage moat]

did you forget the part where he started a money cult that purpose-breeds people and dehumanizes them

[frigid path]

Loid definitely violated entrati

[sage moat]

or when he loan sharked drusus

[restive river]

Ballas is an Orokin
He def could get the info
And he still implemented it into the design :p

[slow bramble]

Purpose breeds people I didn't know about

[restive river]

With permission

[slow bramble]

THAT I get

[sage moat]

yep! grineer clone, corpus "purpose breed", both of these are amoral which by default makes the infested the most moral faction

[slow bramble]

Can you expand on this?

[frigid path]

You’ve seen his labs albrect was into some freaky stuff lol

[sage moat]

#ArloDidNothingWrong

[restive river]

Him and Loid both

[normal mountain]

If the info is out there
I'm not entirely convinced that anyone other than Entrati (and consequently Parvos with his "violation" of Entrati) knew how to manipulate time

[restive river]

Well yeah he was DEAD ALREADY

[frigid path]

It explains quorvex

No idea if I spelt that right

[slow bramble]

Lol imma say Tenno are most moral for clowning on them all

[restive river]

Drop the u

[sage moat]

so the implication is it consists of arranged marriages wherein people are paired together based on percieved traits like "strength" in hopes to make a baby that is strong like them. its real basic eugenics stuff

[restive river]

Ballas still implemented it :p

If he objected he wouldn’t have done it

[slow bramble]

I'm assuming cause tech matches were determined by Algorithm

[normal mountain]

The point I'm trying to make is that Protea's Time powers are Parvos' design
It's not that hard to put something together from an instruction manual

[sage moat]

not explicitly stated but probably true, yeah

[slow bramble]

That has to be higher ups though. Sounds more like a focus on "pure breeding" than any attention they give to the lower classes

Inverse to the Grineer

[normal mountain]

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if his protests were more of "you're not Orokin, how did you come up with this?"

[frigid path]

Ducky are you made of rubber asking for a friend

[slow bramble]

More likely "I don't want to give a non Orokin this power"

[normal mountain]

That too, probably

[slow bramble]

Iiiiii just thought of something

[sage moat]

no no see its not trying to keep the bloodline pure (though the corpus may care about that? for inheritance purposes) its more to make stronger or smarter offspring with which to form a stronger and smarter working class

[slow bramble]

Exactly

[sage moat]

to do work more efficiently and therefore make more grofit

[slow bramble]

Top levels only

So like, say each member of a family get a number assigned to them based off of testing

To have access to the algorithm and the numbers you need to pay a lot of money yada hada

The numbers and algorithm determine who you are the best "match" for

I'm mashing Eugenics and medieval power marriages in my head here

It's kinda hard to explain

[sage moat]

i don't think thats the implication but i can't prove that that's not the implication, your reading is definitely valid here

[normal mountain]

This is starting to remind me of a book series I once found, but never actually read

[sage moat]

i get what you're going for i just think they do it to make a better working (lower) class not a better upper class. why does nef anyo or any other top investor need to be purpose-bred for their position?
Meanwhile, a veso-r should be eugenics'd to being as good at being an engineer as possible, otherwise they might mess up and cost some grofit

[slow bramble]

Like
This number is equivalent to a Duke
This one a count, etc
The goal always being to have a match higher than your og number

Okay let me start again

[sage moat]

no i fully understand you here

[slow bramble]

So
The issue we're really running into here is at some point that starts conflicting with the philosophy

And it becomes a question of "Did Parvos start this or did "the board"

[sage moat]

What? a cult's ideologies conflicting with themselves?

[slow bramble]

Lmao

[sage moat]

https://tenor.com/view/shocker-shocked-futurama-im-shocked-gif-5296191

[modern steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-the-joke-ranier-wolfcastle-mc-bain-the-simpsons-stand-up-comedy-gif-4372917

[slow bramble]

When it's religions like Parvos's the contradiction is rarely at the top and tends to start with the followers

[normal mountain]

I bet the board did it
Parvos had his whole shtick of "if you work hard, you can make life better for yourself"
Purpose breeding workers for a working class doesn't really mesh with that

[slow bramble]

thank you

[modern steppe]

the point with Parvos roast against Anyo also applies to the rest of the Corpus Board

[sage moat]

parvos did want the corpus to have a lot of upward mobility, just like all capitalist leaders, but of course because its capitalism it eventually devolves into a caste system

[normal mountain]

man, I loved that roast

[sage moat]

though the modern corpus have just a tiny bit of upward mobility. if you work hard and also are a woman you can become a sister of parvos

and also if a tenno kills you.

a tenno has to kill you for you to become a sister

[normal mountain]

I mean, I'd think Parvos would let you have a similar position if you were a man (maybe not with the cool Specter powers and immortality)
He doesn't seem to be the type to shy away from hard workers

[slow bramble]

I really want Parvos to do something besides torture Drusas and making Sisters

[normal mountain]

He does seem a bit influenced by growing up with his brutish brother though

[slow bramble]

For him it's the delineation between smart and stupid. His father and brother worked hard but never let themselves go anywhere. Parvos was a fighter.

So it's social Darwinism tied to capitalism

Or at least when we get to where the philosophy goes wrong

I feel like he'd look at the Solaris contracts and go "okay this is wildly busted how tf are these people actually supposed to have a shot."

[sage moat]

no no no, i think he'd be like "well if they just work harder they wouldn't be in this mess"

[normal mountain]

You know, I kinda want to see that

[slow bramble]

Because his version of charity was "give a loan with a percentage that was still workoffable." The idea being this had a ripple effect

[normal mountain]

That sounds more like Anyo than Parvos tbh

[modern steppe]

this but attempting to make it sound more like a loophole with his current philosophy and their situation

[slow bramble]

They're in that mess in the first place because they have no shot besides a crappy contract

[modern steppe]

Parvos wouldn't just go "they need to work harder"

he'll likely twist it in a way that would probably put them in worse debt than under Anyo if he could

[slow bramble]

Ehhhh

I think he would remove the percentage

[normal mountain]

Harsher consequences, maybe
But I doubt he'd make it unable to be paid off

[slow bramble]

The interest has stopped accumulating but they still have to dig themselves out

Part of the idea is that the payee can then give someone else a loan to repeat the cycle.

And like
At some point you're under so much debt it doesn't matter and you're focused on keeping your head in its case.

Not getting out

So you start breaking laws because that's the only way to survive in a wildly unfair system that is blatantly trying to kill you for something you can't control

If he Punishes SU for Anyo's arrogance and stupidity he just moves their anger from Anyo to him. And they didn't like him to begin with

This is someone heavily associated with Quincy for Pete's sake.

Sorry I just
I don't see him being a bad guy where SU is involved

A different kind of crappy maybe, but they literally cannot go worse than Anyo

[stiff fable]

He's actually mostly okay with it

Remember that Parvos is first and foremost a cult leader

Cult leaders always say that they're for self-determination, but they always end up on top of systems that exist to glorify and enrich the leader

[slow bramble]

Which is obviously what happened with him. Fair point

Sorry if I'm dominating the conversation. I really just don't want to see more of the same when it comes to the Solaris and Corpus. I want to see them grow and expand the same way the Sentients and infested have been.

[stiff fable]

They actually have a lot

It's less noticeable if you're a newer player but the Corpus were originally (and I mean originally) the Grineer's war suppliers

They were very quickly expanded into the second main faction, and they've gotten a fair bit of expansion in the last few years

Parvos himself was introduced after Wally and Erra, the Sisters emerged right before New War, and Parvos got to be the enemy of Warframe's last Operation prior to Eightclaw

[graceful swan]

<@&778745217037238293>

[sage stratus]

Funfact, the tenno rebellion against the orokin took only 2 minutes and 15 seconds

[graceful swan]

No it didn’t

Orokin were all over the System and some ran so that’s too short

[tribal cape]

Grendel went to, ughh, Europa I think? To eat one of the Executors

[hollow siren]

yep, Executor Karishh

[violet storm]

The glutton consumed by the gourmand

A fitting end

[hexed oxide]

And the gourmand is the most eaten by the helminth

[placid thunder]

Is there a tangible way to understand some of the lore without getting spoiled? I have some idea who I am (Space ||child|| piloting a hellspawn cyborg ||meat puppet?||). I know who the Orokin are, same with Grineer and Corpus. I know I have to beat the brakes off the Corpus. Other than that, I don't know who characters are or why I'm doing most things.

The Drifter quest made some things clearer, but also made me confused on how I'm two guys but also one guy but also three guys.

[hollow siren]

said Drifter quest is "intended" to be played right after The New War

[restive river]

Best way to not get spoiled is just by playing the quests and seeking out fragments

[placid thunder]

Uh oh

[hollow siren]

dw you can replay it

[restive river]

It can be played before though too

[hollow siren]

yes, which is not a good thing in my opinion

[restive river]

The whole point is it can be played before OR after

[restive river]

Which is an opinion

It was designed for both

Will it be more confusing? Absolutely!
But it’s a paradox so it can take place before or after

[hollow siren]

and DE has been steadily moving it further and further back, showing they too think it being so early is a flawed thing

[restive river]

Well it was too early for sure

But it still can be played before the new war

Cause timeline wise
Yeah

[hollow siren]

||I mean it literally takes place after the first act of TNW, but before the second act||

[restive river]

You can’t exactly play it during the new war :p

[stiff fable]

The idea of having it that early is that it would set up some things and obscure some others

[restive river]

I’m aware

[stiff fable]

And either way it would preserve the central NW twist

But more importantly it would provide a clear "main story" element before Second Dream

[placid thunder]

I'm gonna be completely honest, I do not know what the New War and Old War are. I haven't even done Heart of Deimos yet, so I'm practically on training wheels

[stiff fable]

so as to beat the "100 hour prologue" allegations

[hollow siren]

The New War is a quest, "The Old War" is a lore thing

[stiff fable]

(note: it did not)

[placid thunder]

I have 230 hours and I don't even know why everyone hates The Lotus

[hollow siren]

The Second Dream is where the story properly starts to pick up

[stiff fable]

Heart of Deimos isn't the important quest, the Second Dream is

[hollow siren]

your Codex shows all quests, so you can use that to see their order and requirements

[stiff fable]

because that establishes the actual background of the setting

[placid thunder]

I kinda know what The Void is, and I know it has something to do with me (||space toddler|| me not the other 2)

[normal mountain]

I honestly disagree
I found that Vox Solaris was where the story picked up for me
(I'm aware it was released after TSD, but I played it before that one)

[placid thunder]

Unless The Operator is ||space toddler||? That part isn't clear

[stiff fable]

The short version is that the Old War is the war that led to the destruction of the Orokin and the collapse of the Origin System into the warring factions + independent colonies we see today.

The New War is the future war that everyone sees coming against the enemy faction from the Old War.

[hollow siren]

You'll learn

[stiff fable]

There aren't three

[hollow siren]

Don't tell them stuff

[stiff fable]

I'll just say that

By design, the New War is what's supposed to clear up what's going on there

[normal mountain]

Hehe
There are only two. No more, no less.

[stiff fable]

More importantly there were always only two

Unlike Baro lol

[tall echo]

Well

[hollow siren]

Literally shut up and don't tell them stuff

[stiff fable]

As far as we're concerned

[hollow siren]

tip-toeing around it by implications does not help it being spoilers

[placid thunder]

So, this will probably answer what I want to know most

How come I'm wiping out Grineer one minute and helping them the next? They don't seem evil, but they're kinda weird. I know what they are biologically, but is it a Zeon thing where they went too far?

[stiff fable]

Oh, that's just because our actual job isn't to kill off both factions

[tall echo]

Oh they are incredibly evil, but we gotta keep a balance

[stiff fable]

The major factions are too strong for us to beat

Our job is preserving the balance between them

[placid thunder]

The Corpus can eat one, I totally get turning them into spaghetti

[hollow siren]

We trim either side if one of them grows too long, essentially

[stiff fable]

As long as they're fighting each other to the death, they aren't crushing the independent colonies

[hexed oxide]

"Hey man, you shouldn't pollute earth" 238 grineer dead

[stiff fable]

We want them to waste MORE people and resources killing each other

Sometimes that requires helping one side directly against the other

[tall echo]

The grineer are like the empire from star wars but without the pretend "we do this for peace"

[stiff fable]

Also the Grineer eat people

[tall echo]

Just. Violent expansion

[stiff fable]

Like, literally, they raid colonies, and put the citizens into food processors

[hexed oxide]

And trying to find the cure to clone rot

[placid thunder]

Oh shoot, that makes sense

[hollow siren]

well old/failed Grineer get turned into "corpse slurry" which feeds the troops

[stiff fable]

They do that too

[tall echo]

Only their own as far as we know

[hexed oxide]

Ok that's a new one

[hollow siren]

only Ghouls are known to eat their victims

[stiff fable]

Nah it's why we only ever fight through ABANDONED Mars colonies

Ghouls eat their victim's corpses directly

[hollow siren]

It's cause that civilization got nearly wiped out by Infested, then the Grineer killed the few survivors later on

[stiff fable]

no that was separate

[placid thunder]

So I think the game will answer this eventually, but is there a point in which I learn why every NPC hates The Lotus?

[hollow siren]

yes, hence "later on"

[stiff fable]

unless you're referring to one of the comics

[tall echo]

Source?

[hollow siren]

yes

[stiff fable]

Old forum loreposts

[tall echo]

[stiff fable]

I mean, the Corpus and Grineer hate her because she's tenno overwatch and the Tenno are forcing them to fight a forever war

[hollow siren]

true that

[violet storm]

More or less other Grineer

[past halo]

See, Grineer care about recycling. The corpses have use for something (if you can pull out the bullets)

[violet storm]

Worm queen straight up threatens workers.

[past halo]

They're braindead morons so they don't care

[violet storm]

Also something something serve the queens

[maiden dock]

i was wondering this the other day and maybe someone has some more information for me. Anyone know who or what ukko is? its one of kullervos powers and its a node in the void. must mean something?

[strange turtle]

Ukko is a Finnish sky god (the same culture that Kullervo’s inspiration story is from)

Void nodes are all named after gods

Mostly stuff related to the sky/stars, but also 2 death/underworld gods for some reason

[maiden dock]

neat thanks

[restive river]

Makes sense actually

[past halo]

Y'know I always wondered, forget Kullervo's criminal record how many crimes has the German guy in Duviri committed

[restive river]

The german guy?

[strange turtle]

Are you confused and mean Albrecht?

[past halo]

I mean the cuffed dude in Duviri you have to save from his Dax captors

[hexed oxide]

The side objective guy

[past halo]

Duviri's not just about circuit, come on guys

[graceful swan]

7 but 1 he did 2 times

[past halo]

I said not Kullervo

The OTHER prisoner

[graceful swan]

Not enough to be sent to Prison

[past halo]

I mean the guy is gonna get executed, what did he even do to deserve that

[graceful swan]

Annoyed Thrax

In Duviri pretty much every criminal gets killed over imprisonment

[restive river]

Kullervo’s not in the circuit

[restive river]

Except Kullervo who’s got his own Warden

[graceful swan]

Due to creating his own prison

[past halo]

Oh my god I was talking about the actual story

[restive river]

Yupp

[restive river]

I don’t believe his crimes are known but it is likely just he did something to annoy Thrax

Death doesn’t come to the Duvirians unless whomever on the Throne wills it
So
Make Thrax angry and he’ll kill ya

[graceful swan]

Literally every criminal in Duviri annoyed Thrax

[restive river]

Does that dude even have a name actually

[restive river]

Except the Drifter who’s a criminal cause they grew up and didn’t need their imaginary friend anymore
Who
Isn’t even imaginary anymore

[chrome frost]

...so ive been wondering, did drifter get out of duviri through Zariman as it popped out of the void (or more like tore a hole to the origin system) or did he get into the zariman (the half inside duviri) but simply was spat out at a random location in the origin system?

[graceful swan]

Archives just has it as The Prisoner

[stiff fable]

We don't know argh

[graceful swan]

Used the Zariman Duviri portal

[stiff fable]

For all we know Drifter popped up on Praghasa the moment the Operator was thrown into the Void

[chrome frost]

...then how come he didn't encounter the holdfasts nor the void angels?

[stiff fable]

Which is why I was expecting a Drifter centric linking quest between Duviri and TNW

(real talk they should do a comic about it)

[chrome frost]

yeah...

[graceful swan]

You can see angels in the Zariman during New War

[chrome frost]

do you mean the ones that remain stationary and are just decorations?

[normal mountain]

I... kinda doubt that
I think either Ballas or Erra would notice a random human popping up nearby

[stiff fable]

Right, but if you play Drifter during Angels it acts like it's their first time seeing it

[stiff fable]

I mean they're distracted by other things at the moment

[graceful swan]

As long as you don't wake up an Angel they all remain stationary

[chrome frost]

...even if this is unlikely i cant unimagine Ballas and erra looking at each other like "wtf broh" when the child they killed and tossed into the void portal came back as a grown adult who acts like a brat

[graceful swan]

Zariman ARG even has Angel attacking a kid

[chrome frost]

ok but how did drifter manage to not encounter the holdfasts?

[graceful swan]

Big ship

[stiff fable]

That was in the past

When people were first turning into void angels

[chrome frost]

also wasnt the dude yapping about adults killing kids?

not the fully turned fellas

Also judging by their description void angels werent the actual zariman adults turned into monsters but rather their void copies getting corrupted

[stiff fable]

I mean, the entire idea is reliant on the Drifter showing up in some other part of the ship. Praghasa is huge

[chrome frost]

essentially a holdfast+wally void energy=loud void angel screech.mp3

[stiff fable]

Yeah that's what it is in-game, but the ARG seems to be suggesting some of the passengers started turning DURING the accident

Which is a whole 'nother level of messed

[chrome frost]

meh its wally were talking about after all...his flavor of indifference is (atleast in my opinion) scientific indifference like a scientist running tests on animals and or other subjects without thinking about their wellbeing

[stiff fable]

Yeah, the Drifter can say that to Eleanor

Who disagrees, and suggests there's malice at work

[silk atlas]

He's most certainly not "indifferent", he's got angles and he's got plans

He's got a vested interest in the Operator

[normal mountain]

Because the Operator made a deal with him
With someone like Eleanor, he could decide to smush like a bug, or not to, and either choice wouldn't mean much to him

[restive river]

But
It kinda did mean something to him

Salem: It felt my light fading, and I swear, a tiny tremor of satisfaction went through it. As if it was pleased to have crushed me. A flea under its fingernail. (EleanorRank3Convo2)

Ofc there’s more to this convo, how she felt crushed because of the utter disregard he felt, his indifference
But the fact he was pleased means that it did mean something

[sage moat]

so here's my theory on the name "The Indifference"
He's not "The Indifferent"
That's not a claim about what he feels, its a claim about what he is. He is the indifference. Numbness, apathy, that's him. And numbness and apathy can be real interested in making your life as bad as possible and taking over as much of it as possible.

[sage moat]

so the drifter/operator split happened at the handshake

operator ended up killing their parents.
Did drifter? Or did drifter CE duviri beforehand?
Is that just something left up to interpretation or do we have confirmation?

[swift steppe]

what is CE

[sage moat]

conceptually embody

[swift steppe]

oh okay thank you

well idk i dont think i can speak on what you said

[lean garden]

You get to choose for operator in TSD/War Within and for drifter in KIM

[normal mountain]

You can choose for Drifter in one of Quincy's rank 5 conversations
You can have him kill his parents personally, let the other kids kill them, or trap them in a closet and let them kill each other
(Was also under the impression that choice applied to Op as well, unless it was confirmed somewhere else)
Afterwards, my understanding gets a little fuzzy

Oh, the choice for Op is in War Within?
that's what I get for not reading the whole conversation

Anyways, at some point the Zariman kids get rescued, and Drifter gets stuck in the Void
And creates Duviri while trying to stay sane

[swift steppe]

my drifter killed her parents bcz idk

idk why i chose that actually

[burnt harbor]

Is there a lore reason Jade is pregnant as a frame? I mean, we saw Jade Shadows.. how does that make sense?

[ashen pulsar]

She was pregnant before becoming a frame

[swift steppe]

what melpomene said

[hexed oxide]

It's explained in the quest isn't it ?

[ashen pulsar]

It’s implied in the quest

[burnt harbor]

Yeah but we took out her space baby

So now she's just chubby?

[swift steppe]

she died.

she's dead

the jade we have is just a copy of her

[ashen pulsar]

But as we’ve seen in a certain conversation a bit ago, not everyone understands implications

[ashen pulsar]

Just like every other frame

[burnt harbor]

I get the implication, I just assumed they would give us a copy of post baby Jade.

[swift steppe]

indeed

[burnt harbor]

It's a bit weird being shot at as a pregnant woman

[swift steppe]

no but maybe theyll make a skin for her that isnt pregnant because well shes dead and she gave birth

who knows? only DE does

[burnt harbor]

Would be nice haha, it's hard to play her since apparently I have a child to look out for too

Wait if we use a copy, does that mean the copy also copied the baby inside?

Man this is weird to think about

[swift steppe]

no i dont think so

the baby is already born he is with stalker

our copy shouldnt have the baby in it thats way too weird

did you cry while playing jade shadows? @burnt harbor

i did lol i cried like a big baby its so sad

[burnt harbor]

See that's what im saying, did DE go super crazy weird on Jade?

I did, ive replayed it a few times when I need to release some emotions xD

[swift steppe]

especially seeing the sister (not a sister i just dont remember her name) just sacrificing everything she did because she realized stalker is holding a baby like oh my god

dont do me like this dude thats wrong

[burnt harbor]

Yeah that part was really touching, letting him walk away

He's a dad now darnit, he doesn't do the killy kill

[swift steppe]

i dont think so

if the baby was in the copy we have of jade that means well have to help her give birth again

[burnt harbor]

Yeah exactly

[swift steppe]

so i really dont think the baby is in the copy of jade we have

[burnt harbor]

Do I have to be a literal in game parent at some point

[swift steppe]

we copied her after the baby was born so its like

you know IRL women they dont loose the big belly instantly?

thats it basically

in my eyes at least

[burnt harbor]

Yeah I can deal with that xD

[swift steppe]

no i dont think so lol thats stalkers job

[burnt harbor]

I'll go wury that haha

With *

[swift steppe]

yeah its the more plausible one

cant wait to see what theyll do with the baby

[burnt harbor]

I mean we better be in it's life

[swift steppe]

fr

[burnt harbor]

We are uncles/aunts basically

[swift steppe]

also the fact that stalker still hunts you after jade shadows is not canon iirc

[hexed oxide]

He'll come in clutch for this arc's end against the indifference. Trust

[swift steppe]

LKMAOoo i hope so

[swift steppe]

onggg we hit unc status

we old guys

[burnt harbor]

I got the beer belly on the way now

Where's my lawn chair

[swift steppe]

LMAOOOO not the beer belly

[hexed oxide]

[Grendel]

[swift steppe]

xDDDDDDDD

[normal mountain]

Call me weird, but I like to think it is canon
Only it's not a vengeful hunting like he did in the past (well, mostly isn't), but more of a combat pop quiz, if you will
A test of how we handle unexpected conditions
also probably a way for Stalker to keep his own skills sharp

[humble sierra]

Mildly related, but if time progressed, Kaya would be 45 years old by now

[swift steppe]

unc status reached

[swift steppe]

well idk imo its not canon its just that DE cant like get rid of stalker yk...

but your idea sounds more fun so ill take it

[tall echo]

Stalker still isn't our friend, it's reasonable to assume he just wants us dead slightly less than before

[swift steppe]

its for monyyy (im joking)

[woven coyote]

He can't just hand your dread allowance, you gotta earn it

[brittle siren]

I think he just neutral now and only "hunt" because it's fun

I mean even he need sth to do beside stealing resources for the child

[river scarab]

The baby might just be a male version of Jade . I saw the whole story bro got hit with father role so hard he still steal everyone resources

[brittle siren]

The gender is unknown for now, but because we could choose the name I think this is the same case with the OP and Drifter

[river scarab]

But both names are males expect for sirious it can be female

[brittle siren]

Now female can't have male name 😭 ????

[graceful swan]

We didn't get their actual gender tbh

[humble sierra]

Yeah they never mentioned Sirion/Orius' gender

What the hell did I just type

How did I not get the names right either time

[brittle siren]

fake fan confirmed /j

[brittle siren]

also that a dope name too

[modern steppe]

technically that would just be combining both names into one for either case

[hexed oxide]

i understood orion is male and sirius female

[sly ibex]

I think they're both male names, and if I remember correctly, Jade says they're going to have a little boy in one of the flashbacks.

[graceful swan]

Nope just "You're going to be a father, Sorren."

[karmic mulch]

Who is that

[graceful swan]

Played Jade Shadows yet?

[sly ibex]

Ah yeah, my mistake. XD

[humble sierra]

I butchered the name but it's a Jade Shadows character

[river scarab]

To be honest the baby model looks so...cute?

[swift steppe]

no sirius is a radio station

siriusXM

xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[tall echo]

Well
Kinda?

[regal torrent]

Is the grineer having differing gender also part of their genes being faulty?

[tall echo]

Nah

[swift steppe]

is marriage a thing in warframe

[restive river]

Yes

[swift steppe]

is mother and father married

[restive river]

I believe so yes

[swift steppe]

toxic marriage lmao

[restive river]

I

Yeah :p

She cut off his arm

[swift steppe]

this is peak romanticism

[graceful swan]

“the man I used to call my husband.”

[swift steppe]

okay but WHERE is grandma's husband

WAIT THATS ALBRECHT IM SO DUMB?!?!?

[graceful swan]

Nope

[swift steppe]

HUH

what do you mean

oh thats grandma from father side?

[swift steppe]

HOLY

thank you very much

okay WHO is albrecht's wife and where is grandma's husband

surely she had a husband you cant birth a child without a man as far as i know

[silk atlas]

We have no idea.

[swift steppe]

well without the seed at least

okay

[graceful swan]

She doesn't need to have a husband to be a grandmother does she?

[swift steppe]

for both questions or just grandma

[swift steppe]

i mean no but i still want to know

also didnt son have a fiance or something

[silk atlas]

For both. If we had names it'd be in the chart lol.

[swift steppe]

okay i see

WAIT WDYM ALBRECHT ISNT GAY WITH LOID

HUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH

this is terrible

[silk atlas]

...He is.

[swift steppe]

OH thank god

[silk atlas]

1. Polyamory exists.
2. Cheating exists.

Either or or both are possible.

[swift steppe]

lol true

[silk atlas]

Or hell, even a divorce.

[swift steppe]

but wait can the orokin reverse all the blue thingy stuff they have with the kuva?

[graceful swan]

Isn't Loid Gay but Albrecht bi?

[swift steppe]

im asking bcz theres pictures of albrecht being blue and shit

[silk atlas]

The blue thingy stuff is just full body tattoo.

[swift steppe]

but clearly now he isnt

[swift steppe]

what about the long arms

surely you cant reverse that

[silk atlas]

He did Continuity, which just transfers you to a different body

[swift steppe]

oh okay nevermind then

[silk atlas]

No need to reverse shit if you just completely discard it lmao

[swift steppe]

yeah i guess

[normal mountain]

it's possible he was still in the closet when Mother came into being

[graceful swan]

Albrecht didn't want a long arm it wasn't forced

[swift steppe]

yeah youre right

[swift steppe]

ah ok i see thats cool i guess

[silk atlas]

The Orokin really didn't care about people being gay

Or poly

[swift steppe]

i think they have other shit to care about ngl

xD

[graceful swan]

They did

It was called the Old War

[swift steppe]

what

[graceful swan]

They had bigger things to care about that bigger thing was the Old War

[swift steppe]

oh yeah lol

[brittle siren]

But they care if 2 person look the same

So, twin-cist? (Or simply clone-ish-cist)

Wait I'm wording it wrong

[restive river]

Albrecht never had the long arm
His skin was flayed after his void trip and he never did the kuva again
Loid regrew his skin and other organs that were damaged, including vocal cords and eyes

[swift steppe]

loid is a true husband

[silk atlas]

More like Albrecht got screwed up from the trip and still did Cont. until around the Zariman parade.

[graceful swan]

It swelled larger in the latter days

[restive river]

No?
He didn’t do continuity after the trip

Like he explicitly says that

Like what was Loid regrowing if he just did continuity???

[silk atlas]

Wait what.

I do not remember that

[woven coyote]

First bit of the grimoire logs iirc

[graceful swan]

While true it was after the trip it wasn't straight after the trip he 100% decided continuity is bad

“It was minute in those early days: the pale reaching digits severed on the floor… studied with reverence, with greed. And it swelled larger in the latter days”

[restive river]

I mean he kinda did? Like he never did continuity after the trip
In his notes he was too scared to think if it was him or the other

[restive river]

The Aftermath

https://www.orokinarchives.com/albrechts-notes/

Loid regrew a buncha him after he was torn up

[steel compass]

Question, is Lizzie and helminth one and the same?

Oh i think i should've asked that on spoiler chat.
No?

[graceful swan]

She's apart of the Helminth like every frame

[steel compass]

i don't know if 1999 is spoilers anymore

[graceful swan]

It’s been way past the 2-week rule

[steel compass]

Yes but in the chat she refered she was either helminth or linked.
Is it like the infested hive mind or just lizzie is lizzie and nothing more nothing less?

[steel compass]

Fair

[graceful swan]

She's being unreliable she's just as Helminth as every frame is

[steel compass]

So she isn't helminth, the one in our ship

They are just the same strain of infestation of the warframes

[graceful swan]

When she says it what it actually means is she is made from Helminth

She is being unreliable

[steel compass]

Fair

[restive river]

She is helminth and her own individual

The infestation, including helminth
Is a hive mind

[restive river]

The infestation is a hive mind
She is both made of it and is it

She’s also just her own guitar
Thing is though, Flare tried to get rid of her and she came back
You can destroy Lizzie but she’ll come back with the same mind cause. Hive mind!

[graceful swan]

You can destroy a Warframe but they'll be back too

[restive river]

:p

[graceful swan]

Unless you somehow kill the kid

[restive river]

Doesn’t change that they’re a hivemind

[graceful swan]

All frames are connected

Ducky remember when I connected all frames names

[restive river]

Yeah lol

[lime haven]

So

Nidus lore

All I know is he's scary in the lore

[graceful swan]

Enjoy
That's your lore

[lilac aspen]

All I know is from his prime trailer Ballas makes it sound as if Nidus was one of the first warframes to succeed in the process

Or the frame that was pushed closer to its infested origins and didn’t turn to the infested side

[lime haven]

So basically

He's goated and basically numba one

I know he's not but i love him so let me gaslight myself

[mossy zodiac]

jeez brutal

ballas hater was here

[woven coyote]

Noone likes ballas, not even back then lol

[mossy zodiac]

bro got that generational hate

[graceful swan]

So literally everyone?

[mossy zodiac]

yes basically everyone

[restive river]

Nidus isn’t the first
That’d be Excal

[graceful swan]

First Warframe
First Protoframe
First in trailers
First frame most pick

[swift steppe]

excal is the real john warframe

[restive river]

First prime

[graceful swan]

First to get knocked out even while Gold

Isn't Excal getting saved in 90% of trailers and actual content

[swift steppe]

wdym

[graceful swan]

Old War Excal Prime gets knocked out and is saved by other Primes

Vor manages to place the thing on Excals leg

Umbra is blown up by Natah

Arthur is late in a version of events
Arthur dies in the other
Arthur almost dies again the third time

[swift steppe]

oh

poor excal lmao

[placid thunder]

Are Mother and Father... ||void touched|| humans? I just finished Heart of Deimos and now I'm doing the whole line

[silk atlas]

No

[placid thunder]

Are they human at all? The story of Warframes and 'mechs being invented sounds pretty human

[silk atlas]

The Entrati family are just Orokin (literally just humans with body mods) merged with the Infestion

[placid thunder]

Ah, so just plain super-cancer not hell-flavored-mega-cancer

I'm excited to learn more about the infestation

[strange turtle]

How come you thought they were void-touched?

Just because of the Heart?

[placid thunder]

Glowy and falling apart like good bbq

At this point I don't know what the Void does other than turn ||me, in the trinitarian sense,|| magical

[ashen pulsar]

A lot. But I believe you have to finish the first arc to start learning about the true powers of the void

Also, no need to spoiler tag things, this whole channel is spoilers

[placid thunder]

I wouldn't want to be spoiled, so I kinda apply that to others, mb

Although I suppose what I spoilered doesn't make sense unless you already played the Drifter quest

Speaking of, is there any reason to go back to fantasy land?

[woven coyote]

Well theres a warframe and a few weapons in the norml mode
Circuit has an offer of 3 frames every week you can choose to farm there
Steel path circuit has different rewards that are basically weapon upgrades

Also you can find lore spread throughout

[barren jasper]

wait it was confirmed that excal was the very first warframe made?

[restive river]

Iirc yeah

[silk atlas]

Excalibur Prime codex entry

[restive river]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/excalibur/

[barren jasper]

ah

[exotic oyster]

Any theories about rusalka how she got to duviri since isleweaver is coming to Warframe on June 25th

[lean garden]

Wally

[lean garden]

I dont think that the first statement can be reliably drawn from the prime trailer at all

[ashen pulsar]

Our buddy wallace has gone on an adventure

It’s in the void so probably pretty easy for him to access

[swift steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/now-i'm-sad-that-was-unexepected-happy-to-sad-wallace-and-gromit-not-even-wensleydale-gif-8738173672854768801

wallace

[ashen pulsar]

That’s what I’m calling him

[swift steppe]

yes

[ashen pulsar]

It’s a great name

Really suits him

[swift steppe]

yes

[ashen pulsar]

yes

[swift steppe]

yes

[tall echo]

Yes?

[swift steppe]

yes

[humble sierra]

Glad to see other people also immediately chose to wear the Clem tag when they saw it was available

[blissful merlin]

Not me…I must remain the lore nerd lol

[swift steppe]

idk if thats the right channel but why does so many deluxe skin dont get the same p;resentation page as hydroid does i rlly need an answer because it bothers me

[tall echo]

Because DE stopped just putting the deluxe into the base frame's preview thing

[swift steppe]

wdym

baruuk doesnt have the same presentation that hydroid has its lowkey kinda sad

even kullervo

[tall echo]

The
The preview thing
Look I'm not a native english speaker either

[swift steppe]

oh okay i seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

its okay dont worry were gonna make it out of here

[tall echo]

It's much easier to see the actual skin imo

[swift steppe]

are you excited for oraxia

[tall echo]

I like spiders

[swift steppe]

yes it is but idkkkkkkkkkkkk its boring without the spectacular presentation

[blissful merlin]

I’m excited for her. Plus her little minions that’ll come with her for your orbiter/backroom

[swift steppe]

mhmhh

[tall echo]

I prefer actually being able to see what I buy over presentation

[swift steppe]

yeah true

[blissful merlin]

Presentation also takes a little longer to showscase the full skin. Not a bad thing imo but…if you’re wanting a quick preview you really shouldn’t have to wait on a full 30-60 seconds of a preview of the showcased armor/skin you want lol.

[tall echo]

Sometimes it doesn't even show the whole skin bc the base frame's preview doesn't either

[sly pagoda]

I have been wondering how it is that Wally can penetrate into 1999. And then it hit me almost as hard as an Isekai truck. Cloths dryer, We all know that missing sock has to go somewhere and that somewhere is the void and that doorway goes both ways. (Joke).

[static nova]

it fustrates me that i cant explain my theory to her about argon crystals just being a natural formation of argon ice occuring in the void, and that the reason it decays is because its argon noble gas, and that it disappears and because we dont keep it in a fridge

[tall echo]

It is evidently not just solidified argon gas

[static nova]

yea but still annoying that cant be a nerd to the nerd even if shes just going to explain its converting to void and returning

which then justified the idea of a void fridge which should technically already be happening because ordis dialog talks about how he keeps the cradle in the void

[tall echo]

An incorrect nerd

[tall echo]

The orbiter is just "void cloaked" which essentially means invisibility mode

Not actually in the void

[proper barn]

It is natural in the Void but it's basically slowly returning to the Void over time.

[restive river]

What ordis dialogue about he keeps the cradle in the void?
Cause I’m looking and not finding it

[static nova]

"Operator, I will never betray you. I will keep the Orbiter hidden in the Void. You can count on me!" just do it ordis.

[restive river]

So
That is removed dialog, which doesn’t make it not canon
The issue is the Orbiter doesn’t always stay in the void, nor would it being there necessarily make it a void fridge

[graceful swan]

Wouldn't the cradle refer to the moon not Orbiter

It was dialogue before TSD iirc

[restive river]

My guess is is that was removed in the second dream cause
The orbiter isn’t always in the void? Like it’d make sense if it’s there sometimes but it wasn’t even hid there during the new war, the most prime time to hide it there-

[restive river]

Ordis never even says “cradle”

[restive river]

The following dialogue lines were originally part of the "Idling in the Orbiter" dialogue, but were removed in Update 18: The Second Dream.

Speaking of
The second dream will be 10 this year

[static nova]

tell that to worm queen

[restive river]

Which actually the tennocon display feels like a love letter to that

[restive river]

When does she call the orbiter a cradle?

[static nova]

mad cephalons crib. crib and cradle are same thing

[restive river]

I mean I guess?
The cradle has been more so referred to as something else though

Teshin: "Your repressed power has returned, fused with your Tenno abilities, amplifying them. You've outgrown the cradle. Now your Transference is innate. Control these Orokin beasts and escape this prison."

[graceful swan]

Speaking about Tennocon I have been thinking about the Sentient thing and have thought as many have seemed to forget because multiple characters mentioning Tau

There's still Third Orb

[restive river]

I can see the cradle potentially being the orbiter here but like
The grineer queens would have said that in the war within. Which takes place after the second dream. And that quote from Ordis has since been removed.

[static nova]

thats the Reservoir tho

[restive river]

Like at most it would maybe be the cradle second dream but that’s when it was removed so I’m not so sure about that

[proper barn]

Crib as in house.

[graceful swan]

There was no us in the Orbiter in person at least during TSD and prior till the end

[restive river]

And?

[static nova]

i could have said that to you ages ago but ok

[restive river]

Okay :p

Also I believe Vinny is right
Aside from the evidence of the fact that that quote had since been removed

[graceful swan]

It was removed because we left it

[restive river]

Which again, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not canon cause it’s removed
But why was it removed? Does anything disprove it?
I would say so

[graceful swan]

It was removed because it’s no longer the case

War Within line was giving a more up to date fact

[static nova]

also this is about the orbiter this quote. hes talking about the seat in the orbiter in this quote, its from war within. its not related to lua.

[tall echo]

I'd argue that a line getting removed does make it non-canon

[tall echo]

The quote is using cradle metaphorically

[static nova]

and.. im using cradle metaphorically and it doesnt change that lua is not the cradle

[graceful swan]

Tbh it was removed because it was canon once but War Within added new Lore decanonizing it

[woven coyote]

This whole discussion was really confusing to follow and felt pointless

All i got was someone going from crib to cradle, mixing cradle and orbiter, and then suddenly talking about the reservoir on lua

[graceful swan]

One thinks the Cradle is the Orbiter one thinks Cradle is Moon

[swift steppe]

is there a lore reason for why we dont have proper lights in decoration mode

or is this like technical reason

[tall echo]

What

[swift steppe]

why is there no light decoration

like lamp and shit

that makes light you know

[tall echo]

Because that'd probably be messy to code

[swift steppe]

oh okay well thats a bit annoying

but i can understand

[woven coyote]

I remember someone used a warframe articula with the jade ephemera and a couple other parts covering it as a lamp

[swift steppe]

thats genius

[woven coyote]

That's what i thought when i saw their work

Ikeaframers are amazing

[proven galleon]

Whenever I think I understood the lore the next quest just smash the warframe lore part of my brain into pieces.

I though frames were just conduits for zaramon kids to control thier void powers, didn't know that they can give birth 😭😭

[graceful swan]

They can't

Humans can create babies
Warframes can't

[proven galleon]

Jade just did

I saw stalker adopting jade's bby

I'm confuse

[graceful swan]

He didn't adopt the baby he's the actual father

Jade even says in the flashback

You're going to be a father Sorren

[proven galleon]

What!! Didn't hunhow created him?

[graceful swan]

No

Hunhow recruited him

[proven galleon]

I though sorren was some other guy?

[graceful swan]

Stalker is Sorren

[proven galleon]

Ohhh...

So jade's warframe was carrying their baby?

[graceful swan]

Jade was pregnant prior to being infested

[proven galleon]

Jade the human or the frame?

I'm even more confused

[graceful swan]

Both are human

Jade the frame was made by Infesting Jade

[proven galleon]

Ahh

I'm even more confused than after finishing jade's quest.

[graceful swan]

What's confusing?

[swift steppe]

jade was human before being transformed into a warframe

jade when she was a human was pregnant

she got "transformed" into a warframe when she was still pregnant with her baby

now we got Jade, a pregnant warframe that gave birth and died

whats confusing?

[proven galleon]

Nothing just my whole tenno head lore is in shamables

[swift steppe]

what? why?

[stiff fable]

Presumably, thinking Hunhow created Stalker

[woven coyote]

Might have also thought only umbra was made from people

[graceful swan]

Didn't it say them and their multiple times, not just you

[wanton mauve]

Feel free to spoil me, but are the "human warframes" like ||Quincy Isaacs|| literally the actual warframes ||Cyte-09|| Or is it like a human approximation and they are separate beings?

[digital grail]

They're not the originals aside from flare maybe they're semi warframes that aren't fully infested someone else will probably explain it better than me

[ashen pulsar]

when albrecht entrati went to the past, he brought multiple variants of the helminth strain, the thing that creates warframes.

they havent transformed into warframes yet.

[proper barn]

separate beings but not a approximation.

[proper barn]

he uses a modifed verision of the virus.

[ashen pulsar]

oh yeah

[proper barn]

it might take over the host but it's not the same as the normal helminth virus.

[ashen pulsar]

well didnt flare turn into temple eventually

[proper barn]

shhhhhhhh

i was being vauge.

[graceful swan]

It was still modified he never said it wouldn't ever fully frameify them

The loop definitely slowed it down

[ashen pulsar]

you can still sorta see the scarring

[graceful swan]

Their humanity may not last. My deliverance may yet consume them, the human swallowed up in the sacred beast. And if my wayward disciples turn on me, what words of comfort shall I have beyond: this is the bargain we have made. Through our sacrifice, history will be saved.

[ashen pulsar]

of the warframe sword-steel burrowing into them

[ashen pulsar]

so hes not sure

but we know cuz of temple

[graceful swan]

Flare had left the loop by the time that happened

[ashen pulsar]

ohhh

[restive river]

Flare is the only one that becomes the “original” frame that we use

Since Ballas never made Temple’s design and when Albrecht used the design it was altered by Flare bleeding on their guitar, creating Lizzie

The other Protos are presumed to be lost/dead by the time of the Orokin era, no bootstraps here
Meanwhile Flare is the only one to hitch a ride on a comet til the night of the naga drums

I mean there’s 18 radiation wars between 1999 and the Orokin Era and the Orokin wiped all old Earth records so
The Hex are long gone, but Flare lives as Temple cause they wanted to help us when we overthrow the empire :)

[silk atlas]

The rest don't need a bootstrap to explain their existence because you couldn't have the Protoframes before (in terms of order of events, not chronologically) the regular ones

[restive river]

Less so that the loop slows it and more pauses it
We however do slow it :)

[restive river]

None of them need a bootstrap to exist

[graceful swan]

Nor will any future ones

[restive river]

No future Hex members yeah

[graceful swan]

Someone earlier on the other server thought Rusalka was going to be Oroxia proto

[restive river]

Iirc the only bootstrap paradox in the game is the Duviri Paradox
Drifter is saved by the Operator so the Drifter can save the Operator so they can save the Drifter so they can… etc etc :)

[restive river]

How many times does DE have to say Russalka isn’t a proto???

She was never planned to be a proto
The fan theories at most caused her mom to be a proto from a design standpoint and
That’s it-

There’s no way for her to even be a proto???

Like the Hex were all infected BEFORE 1999
It takes TIME that she doesn’t have???

[graceful swan]

I said she's being controlled by Wally and I doubt Wally can make frames

Wally even wanting to make a frame would be unlikely

He probably hates that frames are Void-powered as is

[swift steppe]

also how can you even think that rusalka is a protoframe

she does not even look like one

her clothes arent fusing with her skin and shit

[barren jasper]

pretty sure people are talking about her turning into one in the future. she's obviously not one right now

[swift steppe]

yeah but how would she turn into one in the future

thats just a dumb theory

[swift steppe]

are warframe able to burp

idk if the question is properly written

[restive river]

People thought she would be the saryn proto BEFORE 1999 came out

[restive river]

Grendel

[swift steppe]

obviously but can other frames burp or not

[restive river]

They don’t have mouthes really

Maybe the ones that can make noises
Maybe

[swift steppe]

ah

[restive river]

Like Umbra screams
Stalker can speak
But it’s not known HOW exactly

[swift steppe]

doesnt saryn scream too

[ashen pulsar]

sevagoth spoke too

I just did tempestarii

[swift steppe]

i do not remember that but if you just did the quest well that must be true

[ashen pulsar]

either that or it was some automated messaging thing

but something said "I wait for the shadow" and the shadow said "your shadow has arrived"

smth like dat

[swift steppe]

oh i see

[ashen pulsar]

that being said, Im not exactly sure if sevagoth was alive at that point

[undone sundial]

Who was the 1999 dude

Was he human piloting Excalibur ?

[humble sierra]

Have you played The Hex? Or are you just talking about the small snippet in Whispers?

[undone sundial]

Huh

[humble sierra]

What part of the game are you talking about?

[barren jasper]

how far into the game are you

[ashen pulsar]

Lmao

Probably whispers, considering they don’t know his name. It is mentioned in the snippet, but it’s much more forgettable.

[swift steppe]

lol

[north jolt]

You have to wonder how the Orokin react to a previously thought non-existent or unknown warframe just showing up seemingly (from their pov) out of nowhere in the middle of that chaos

[restive river]

I’d more so wanna see Ballas’ pov
A hidden or lost frame isn’t an insane idea tbh

Heck Cyte was lost

[north jolt]

"Ballas why TF is there a gender ambiguous rockstar riding a comet? "

[restive river]

“Why does that design look so… familiar… WAIT A MINUTE”

[north jolt]

and THAT is now officially when he bailed and went into hiding. Canon event now

[ashen pulsar]

That was during the fall of the empire tho

Right?

[restive river]

No

[ashen pulsar]

Then when

“Move like a shadow, strike with force. The Orokin created a Warframe that marries damage and stealth to eliminate sensitive problems, but he disappeared in the chaos of their demise. All that remains is a batch name: Cyte-09.”

[ashen pulsar]

Disappeared in the chaos of their demise. Is it not referring to the fall of the orokin empire

[lilac aspen]

The fact Cyte-09 managed to go into hiding so well that he also removed his name from history.

[sly pagoda]

Its possible his existence was so classified that most data was eyes only type shit

Ballas kept only the batch so that if got hacked it would not be clear what it was

[muted grove]

Someone here knows something about Albrecht having a secret son? 🤔

[humble sierra]

Don't think there's any intended indication of that whatsoever

The closest thing he has to a son is probably the Man in the Wall

[muted grove]

I ask because in my thoughts, Duviri is a short story written by Euleria Entrati, a story that her father told her when she was a child. I look at all of this in the midst of my personal theories, as if the child Koral, and that friend of hers who are always in Duviri, are somehow the father and mother of Deimos. I say this because in my eyes it seems very much like Koral is Euleria as a child. If this theory is real, it is supposed that Mathila "happiness" is Albrecht's former wife, and if this is real, it is supposed that Koral has a brother, the one who takes care of the goats.

also her father is the lighthouse keeper

who i think is the vagabond

[humble sierra]

That's a sweet idea but I don't think Euleria put any of her actual upbringing when writing Duviri. We're also not too sure what the extent of the story is, outside of the actual narration from her. Do they even mention Koral and Baris(?) in the story, or Mathila's husband? Or did the Drifter somehow manifest all these little backgrounds for them?

Mathila's husband also died from outside interference, when the Operator was doing Chains of Harrow, I think when Harrow/Rell died, it sent the chains into Duviri.

[proper barn]

That second part isn't true.

[proper barn]

Also Mother made the book to help the little ones and stuff.

[humble sierra]

The Vagabond is the Man in the Wall, he's missing a finger, has that distorted manic laughter when you approach him, and disappears when you look away. He also seems to show up in spots related to the emotional spirals. During Anger, he's on top of the palace tower, which might be what Lodun hates most? Idk, reaching there, could just be a random spot. But what's not random is where he shows up during the Fear Cycle: behind Sythel's house.

When it's not Fear, Sythel is standing next to that wall and presses her ear against it, and occasionally she'll have a voice line saying "There! Did you hear it? That... rap, tap, tap..."

Sythel also believes Albrecht created the MITW directly-- he feared there was something in the void, and so the void gave him something to be afraid of.

Personally I think Sythel only believes that because she started feeling some of Albrecht's fears when he entered Duviri.

[normal mountain]

I think Sythel believes that because Albrecht believed it, and told her so. And Sythel would have no reason to doubt him.

[reef radish]

How exactly does time travel work in Warframe?

[silk atlas]

Albrecht made a time machine and he went back in the past. Things barely change even if you screw around with the past, and that's more or less all we know.

[restive river]

Things can be rewritten but because everything is so big it largely doesn’t change enough to matter

18 radiation wars will wipe out a lot of changes tbh

[woven coyote]

just putting it out there
the fear based character saying something is because of fear doesn't feel very solid to me

not saying albrecht is unrelated to wally's creation/appearance, but I don't buy it being specifically fear

at least not when sythel says something is because of fear

[humble sierra]

At least 18

[normal mountain]

Also putting it out there
This was a theory

I don't actually know how much interaction Albrecht had with the characters of Diviri. But, if the subject of the Wall Man ever came up in conversation with Sythel, I would not be surprised if Albrecht would agree with the fear idea, if he didn't come up with it himself

In addition, whether or not Albrecht created him through fear, he definitely feared the doppelganger that suddenly appeared and started calling him by the nickname his mother used
And ran from him
And inadvertently chopped off one of his fingers
Which, it seems, definitely PO'd the Wall Man

So, in a sense, it did start when Albrecht looked into the Void with fear, and his fear took shape

[swift sentinel]

As well as the time gap.

[restive river]

Yes that too
~10k years alone will likely wipe a lot of stuff out lol

[swift sentinel]

Yeah, especially if we interpret Eleanor's line about the stars as literal.

[graceful swan]

Stars do actually move with time

[tall echo]

They also explode

[restive river]

It’s more so the system moved and the stars

[chrome frost]

...judging by the fact that grineer have radiation related weapons (nukor) how high are the chances that they have a bunch of nukes lying around somewhere?

[strange turtle]

Do we know if people who have the all convos setting turned on will be able to get the new ones?

[graceful swan]

Should be able to

[proper barn]

Why wouldn't you?

[keen timber]

tbf i thought rusalka was saryn proto before her mom showed up

[keen timber]

no- he gave us the ability to help the warframes on purpose i think

[graceful swan]

He didn’t even know frames were a thing at that point

[keen timber]

could also be the drifter

[tall echo]

What

[graceful swan]

Vagabond is Wally

[keen timber]

xaku...

[regal torrent]

What are the acolytes? I'd imagine that Stalker himself would hunt us in the harder gamemode...

[graceful swan]

Stalker fanboys and fangirls

[tall echo]

Wannabe stalkers with lost lore

[regal torrent]

But steel path is the harder mode, does that imply some fanclub is stronger than stalker?

[tall echo]

Xaku didn't just randomly show up

[tall echo]

Stalker still spawns in SP

The acolytes are an addition, not a replacement

[strange plinth]

both die in one hit in 90% of cases /s

[tall echo]

A base sp grineer can take more hits from my builds than the acolytes

-# though stalker's health bar doesn't even appear for me

[regal torrent]

really? I cant remember

stalker doesnt even want me anymore

[tall echo]

You gotta kill bosses for him to show up

[keen timber]

maybe the rest of the under-guard or whatever stalker was

[tall echo]

Stalker is the only transformed low guard that we know of

And he had a very specific reason

[keen timber]

"again- REALLY?!! thought you got your fill already" _stalker probably

[tall echo]

Stalker keeps throwing hate bps at me for some reason

Maybe he's going full AM

[restive river]

I want a cephalon that goes full AM

I wanna say the closest we get is Hunhow

[tall echo]

That'd be me whenever I visit nihil

Remember ceph scrap lore, got extreme beef with nihil

[restive river]

I’m so glad he’s an orokin we can consistently beat up

I want more adventures in the weave

[graceful swan]

I took his glass bottle from the future I’m surprised time hasn’t been broken by me doing that alone

[restive river]

I have one in the future and one in the past :)

[tall echo]

Same

[jaunty siren]

is it illegal to possess a weapon in the orokin empire

[tall echo]

Depends on your rank

Peasant? Yes.
Noble? No.

[violet storm]

Dax definitely could possess weapons, it was their job.

[restive river]

Low guardians maybe could

[tall echo]

Yeah I'm not counting the dedicated soldiers, they're usually always armed

-# Hard to use a sword without any

[violet storm]

Fair.

[restive river]

Ordan had weapons and he wasn’t a specific soldier for the Orokin iirc

Doesn’t mean it wasn’t illegal ofc

[tall echo]

Ordan was a mercenary

[violet storm]

Beast of Bones for reason

That’s something a merc that’s Seen things and done a lot would be called

[tall echo]

Assassin's creed has made it impossible for me to read mercenary normally

Generally those without a combat job or political influence were not allowed to have regular weapons

[silk atlas]

Were they not allowed or just didn't bother? Not like everyone's just carrying around a knife with them today

[tall echo]

Based on cavalero dialogue, not allowed

[violet storm]

Reminds me of how the average servant couldn’t even look at a bottle of Kuva lest they face glassing, but that’s extremely different

[lilac aspen]

A part of me also believes the Orokin might not really care about someone carrying a weapon

I mean Ballas was literally torn apart by Ordan and blub was laughing like it was a hilarious show or something.

[tall echo]

Even symbolic daggers like innodem were exclusive to dax and nobles

[tall echo]

Again, ordan was a mercenary

[violet storm]

It was described as being ceremonial

[tall echo]

And ordan was unarmed in that situation

...and he didn't kill ballas

[violet storm]

Ordan was likely highly dangerous regardless of being armed.

[lilac aspen]

The neck bones implanted in his neck arteries
He tore them out to use as weapons, a type of move that was designed in the event he was in a situation where he would die regardless

[tall echo]

He's like the doctor

[violet storm]

Ordan ripped apart a lot of orokin however.

[tall echo]

Yes, but those weren't regular weapons

[ashen pulsar]

This is quite the conversation to walk in on

[violet storm]

Ye

[lilac aspen]

And all of them laughed like Ordan said a funny joke.

[ashen pulsar]

How tf you put bones in your arteries 😭

[violet storm]

Orokin things.

[ashen pulsar]

Of course they are

[tall echo]

Ask ordan's mercenary clan

That was a tradition for them apparently

[ashen pulsar]

How big are these bones??

[tall echo]

Not too big

[ashen pulsar]

…you mean tiny

[violet storm]

Probably pretty comparable to smaller daggers

[ashen pulsar]

Right??

[ashen pulsar]

WHAT

WHAT ARE THESE ARTERIES

[tall echo]

A piece of a leg bone taken out and stabbed into the neck iirc

[lilac aspen]

Stab a water bottle and hold the knife into it

Water doesn’t leak out as much until it’s removed

He got them surgically implanted so it wouldn’t kill him until they’re obviously pulled out.

[tall echo]

You don't need to like
Completely divide an artery to make it lethal

[violet storm]

You need only knick one.

[ashen pulsar]

Oh okay it’s not like… inside of your arteries tho.

[tall echo]

It's stabbed into the artery

[ashen pulsar]

Yeah

[lilac aspen]

Basically a “cosmetic” modification that his culture made as a way of “If you’re going to die, die taking as many with you.” Or something

It’s been a moment of me reading why he had them

[tall echo]

So it is, by definition, in the artery

[tall echo]

Last gasp without the revival bit

[violet storm]

I think when Ordan killed those orokin, it was shortly before he got glassed, could be wrong

[tall echo]

Yes

His last action before becoming immortal

[silk atlas]

I thought that was just for people on the Zariman.

[lilac aspen]

Mind you
Ordan was a monster since he managed to kill multiple Orokin before he bled out. Which is insane considering how fast you’d die with all your neck arteries opened up

[violet storm]

I mean, Granum did say a cephalon such as Ordis burns out eventually

[tall echo]

Safe to assume it applies to all commoners

[violet storm]

Most of the Zariman’s passengers were commoners looking to get to Tau I think to settle. Though we know that never happened

[silk atlas]

I wouldn't be so sure, since I figure the Orokin just thought they wouldn't find any resistance the ship itself couldn't handle and just thought the weapons as superfluous.

[tall echo]

Would the orokin allow the oppressed to be armed?

[graceful swan]

You can actually make yourself “upper class” via KIM

[violet storm]

The closest thing to guns that the common person could get there hands on was the Laetum, but that was for festive events till the void did it’s thing to it

[silk atlas]

Not to the degree they'd themselves get, at least :v

[violet storm]

Probably very basic arms and sometimes they’d probably have to slap guns and melee weapons together

[lilac aspen]

I think there may be another reason

Why have any weapons anyway?
Orokin rule everything
They’d probably make sure any weapons you do get aren’t gonna be enough to cause them issues
Try to get creative enough (like using a giant meteor base) and they’ll eventually throw a warframe at you.
Unironically you’re safest bet was to simply not make yourself something the Orokin would not notice unless you’re built different like Parvos

[silk atlas]

Well, Serro was banned for being a makeshift rebel weapon so, hmm...

[violet storm]

I mean, why would the orokin throw a Warframe at a bunch of Rail Pirates robbing people? Then again Masker’s Theodolite happened

But that had a good reason

[lilac aspen]

”How dare you make people miserable, that’s OUR job.”

[violet storm]

I wheeze-laughed because of this

[sick nebula]

Question: where does the idea that the Infestation fears the Void in general come from?

[graceful swan]

Nora Night podcast

Helminth dialogue

[sick nebula]

This one?

(We fear nothing but the Void demon)

[graceful swan]

Yes

[violet storm]

Yep

Straight up an entity of the Infestation saying it fears only the void.

[graceful swan]

NORA: "Hold up a sec. The Infestation is scared? It told you that?"

Caller: "No, no, no. Well, not in words. That would be crazy. No, it's the exocrine."

NORA: "Right. The exo…."

Caller: "Exocrine, yes. It has been… furtive. And the capillaries, pumping blood faster and faster. The hypholoma sores should be blooming this time of year, but they're dull. Discoloured. I think… I think they're trying not to stand out. Trying not to be noticed."

[sick nebula]

Okay, so, given what I've heard from Kaya in ETA, I suspect that the Helminth is saying that it only fears you (and maybe similar entities, probably Wally), not the Void in general

Because it sounds like the Infestation is actually pretty tied to the Void

[violet storm]

There was no apostrophe between Void and Demon, so the possibility it refers to the Tenno is non-zero

[graceful swan]

The Infestation were afraid of the knocking caused by Wally

[sick nebula]

Hmm... makes me wonder if the Infestation doesn't perceive a distinction between Tenno and Wally

[graceful swan]

They can’t

[violet storm]

The possibility Wally was being referred to is the same as the Tenno being referred is about equal, if not slightly higher than being the Tenno

[graceful swan]

We literally have a piece of Wally

[normal mountain]

this is a fascinating subject to wander into

[violet storm]

Wally gave the Tenno powers back in the Zariman Incident

[sick nebula]

Like, the Helminth thinks the Tenno are part of Wally in the same way that Infested are part of the Infestation, or smth like that

[graceful swan]

Their fear of the Void still makes sense if you consider they can’t consume it

[normal mountain]

So, we'd effectively be like Vome and Fass
Technically part of the same hive mind, but at war
Interesting idea

[sick nebula]

"We know how procs work, Demon"
:3

[violet storm]

And the Infested wildlife, namely the Predasite and Vulpaphyla being attacked by normal infested and Nexifera smacking Cryptilex to eat them

Deimos is unique in the fact you can find Infested actively attacking other creatures that are themselves infested

[restive river]

It def fears Wally
If it fears us it’s cause we have a piece of Wally

[restive river]

Fass and Vome:

Deimos is it’s own special ecosystem

[restive river]

The Helminth, according to Lizzie says she loves us
She distinguishes us differently from Wally

If I had to guess the infestation fears the void or more specifically Wally and other void entities because it cannot infest them, it cannot share it’s “gift”
Wally specifically is a greater threat as he is the largest and most powerful known void entity
And then there’s the Tenno, humans saturated by the void, a piece of Wally held within them, unable to be infested while controlling infested puppets

It fears us because of what we have not because of what or who we are

Tbh the infested and wally seem to be two eldritch-esque entities on polar ends of a spectrum
Wally is a singular being that can take any shape and spread himself across other pieces of himself, even communicating through them that cannot be infested due to being made of the void, he is a nothing wanting to be something
Whereas the infested are a hivemind, not a singular individual but many that want to spread themselves to all but cannot to void entities
One is almost more of the mind where the other is more physical

Wally was born from fear and perceptions
The Infestation’s origins are unclear but it is undoubtedly physical

Both also have interesting relationships with time!

[proper barn]

It doesn't fear you later.

[feral cape]

Not really

[silk atlas]

Techrot's got a fat nothing to do with the Void outside of the context of Albrecht meddling with things, so I'd err on "no" as well

[sick nebula]

One of Kaya's lines in Temporal Archimedea is something about the Techrot/Infestation remembering things across multiple timelines or smth.

I suppose it could just be the Hex and the others bringing that across, but

[silk atlas]

There is Lizzie/Flare's convo with Lizzie remembering if you reset, but I don't think it was ever stated that the time machine Albrecht had used the Void...

[violet storm]

I mean, we kinda just end up in 1999 kinda inexplicably

[lilac aspen]

We get to 1999 through Helminth, funnily enough

Helminth the Goated

[silk atlas]

Wait a minute, yea

[lilac aspen]

Granted our method is a mixture

Helminth gave us the physical vessel in 1999, then we use our transference to possess it.

[violet storm]

That explains why it ends up where Arthur meets the Drifter

[strange plinth]

helminth has a weird relationship with time, unknown if the other strains do as well
hence why lizzie remembers resets as well

[sick nebula]

This is kinda a separate question, but if Albrecht made a time machine, I think the default assumption should be that it involves the Void.

Copying from the wiki transcript of TNW:

**Euleria Entrati:** "Presentism, the obsolete theory of linear time, posits that now is all that is real."

Event: Solar Genesis
Euleria Entrati: "In this frame, the Present Absolute, the now, moves constantly toward the future."
Jenva: "When are we ever gonna use this stuff?"
Monotemporal Progression = Entropic Escalation
Euleria Entrati: "And leaves the static past behind, discarded, consigned to unreality."
Presumed Inevitability of Decay
Euleria Entrati: "The future remains to be discovered, but is less real than even the past."
Event: Solar Extinction
Euleria Entrati: "We see the shadows on the cave wall but not the hands that cast them."
Eternalism Theory of Void Travel / Polytemporal Nexus [See Chapter 7]
Euleria Entrati: "The Void offers humanity the truer telling of Eternalism. That now is merely a facet of a great block."

[violet storm]

I mean, hive mind n all, might be able transfer info around regardless of time period, as long as it’s time moving forward from a certain point.

[sick nebula]

Albrecht is also, like, the Void scientist guy.

Even his motorcycles explicitly use the Void

[lilac aspen]

Hive mind just transcends time and space casually

[violet storm]

It would seem that the Helminth Strain is the most docile of the infested strains, then again there’s only so much of it.

[sick nebula]

src: https://www.warframe.com/1999/atomicycle

[lilac aspen]

They’re just built diff and honestly that’s why they’re one of the best bets to help fight Wally simply due to being the other end of Eldritch horror

[restive river]

Not his motorcycles
He modified them
But yes he did modify them with the void

It’s never said what Albrecht used for his time machine, but he likely manipulated the void as he didn’t get there how we did
His method also provided a way back and fourth which we haven’t seen as he could take samples back to the origin system

[restive river]

It’s domesticated :)

[proper barn]

Well it can still detect other strains.

[sage moat]

"The void is home to a nightmarish demon that will take everything away. lets fuel this motorcycle with it"

classic albrecht

[drowsy cobalt]

Not sure if this was like this always but Acrithis is grinning permanently for me rn.

also she is grinning while she speaks

Not sure if this implies anything for the next update

[normal mountain]

...
I don't remember her ever grinning like that
Or... ever, tbh

this does not bode well

at all

[hexed oxide]

well, fck

[blissful merlin]

Probably a facial glitch. I just did a spiral and her face was normal for me lol

[drowsy cobalt]

likely, but it is interesting to see this days before Duviri gets invaded

[hexed oxide]

oh, didn't realize it's 4 days from now