lore-discussion

[proper barn]

no.

also coda are literally the best liches they have made as i've said.

[sage moat]

i think you are correct that attaching liches and sisters to the PoE and Orb Vallis respectively would make both the adversaries and the open worlds more interesting. instead of doing 2 reworks, its doing 1 rework. two birds with one stone that simplifies things, makes things more interesting, and gives players reason to keep coming back to the open worlds

plus it fulfills my desire for more bosses in the open worlds

[viscid scroll]

Thatd be cool but kuva liches on eidolon seem off

[sage moat]

i have this really annoying part of me that im pretty sure is some undiagnosed condition where i need things to belong in sets
I can't use frames without using their signature weapons
I can't build 1 frame and not another if they belong in a "set" together like the 4 basic element frames and chroma
I'm already genuinely driven up the wall knowing we're never getting "Pure" infested liches

[proper barn]

undiagnosed nueordivergent core.

[viscid scroll]

Something visually dimiliar to zealoids, a attempt to create a warframe by infestation would make for a cool lich

[sage moat]

because per the codex, the coda aren't infested liches, they're techrot liches. lorewise that's the same thing, to any rational person that's the same thing, but infested and techrot are different factions for some reason
So to my brain, putting the grineer adversaries on the grineer open world and the corpus adversaries on the corpus open world while leaving the infested adversaries in not the infested open world would be immensely discomforting. BUT your idea is really good!

rn i have my frames organized in sets. Set A is based on the factions per the codex and i constantly have mental battles like "do i include the factions that are only considered as such by weapon origin, like Cephalon and Entrati? What about Tenno, which has its own damage resistances and vulnerabilities and weapons, but those weapons are largely associated more with the orokin?"

rn im debating making it so the set is smaller: only frames for adversaries. or only frames for open worlds

anyway this is the lore channel so i do have a lore question

are the murmur gonna stick around in duviri? or is it only for operation: eight claw?

do we know?

[proper barn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/950804146745909262/1358701810818482227/20241118_014748.jpg?ex=6848846b&is=684732eb&hm=b14ed39215c653da2838385e13db47f96d5c5501357078a2ab95b2b7abe0ecaf&

[sage moat]

😭

[proper barn]

probably stay. it sounds like the kullervo expansion.

[plush phoenix]

i have ocd & i do this stuff

not this specifically but i have obsessions like this in games

this specific manifestation is what would be called "just-right ocd" might be worth it to look into getting a diagnosis

or like getting checked out. it sucks a lot to not be able to do random things for no reason

[sage moat]

noted. ill bring it up to my therapist

[sage moat]

duviri has become the murmur open world... murmur adversaries next...

[old dome]

what was the kully expansion?

[proper barn]

His whole island.

And I think a new resource.

And I think also incarnons but idk when those came out exactly.

[old dome]

murmur in circuit.......... idk if i like that idea or not—on one hand i love the murmur as enemies bc theyre goofy af but on other hand (looks at the flying triangle) i hate you.

[sage moat]

i have a banger idea for sentient adversaries that most of you have probably seen but it kinda requires a subplot and im not sure if DE would want to do that during a super suspenseful part of the void war arc. murmur adversaries though would be right at home in the current arc

[hexed oxide]

let's say they add murmur adversaries

how do you beat them ? can't make them mortal by speaking to them in their own tongue

[sage moat]

well it seems it wouldn't just be "a really strong murmur" it would probably have some Gimmick

[swift steppe]

clearly they have NO taste because those missions are so cool

[sage moat]

like the sisters of parvos aren't just technically enhanced, they're void enhanced. and the technocyte coda aren't just big boss hivemind infested, they're boy band clones mixed with computer viruses

idea ill throw out, murmur adversaries are tenno who've been whispered to by the indifference during the second dream and given into its influence, you need to snap them out of it using some set of "awakening" mods to make them realize
A. This Is Who They Are
B. the indifference sucks

thought of it on the spot, probably better solutions

[brittle siren]

nvm Gamma is not in the Kuva pack

[tall echo]

Wrong server

[brittle siren]

nah not really, just wanna spread info since general channel seem like a bad place to give info (when some ppl arguing)

[feral cape]

"Tenno the lich has hidden portions of its death in vaults match the symbols contained with both the vaults and the arena and vanquish this foe"

[blissful merlin]

Oh damn fr?

[blissful merlin]

And yea general is a freaking mess most of the time lol

[normal mountain]

Love this idea
Only issue I could possibly see is with regards to the convert/vanquish mechanic of the current Adversary system
Now, perhaps you wouldn't actually kill them, but instead do some sort of void cleansing thing and they offer you their equipped weapon/currency to buy the weapons as thanks
But still, that bit just doesn't quite sit right with me

[nocturne valve]

I can't believe that grineer soldiers are literally super soldiers and we cut through them like, I quote Drax "paper people".

[normal mountain]

I always saw it as the Grineer being super soldiers, but a Tenno is the ultimate warrior

[nocturne valve]

They are the apex predators of the origin system in my opinion

[somber obsidian]

@lean garden

Question about gauss redline

[lean garden]

Que?

[somber obsidian]

Is it literally just removing his limiter or like

Allowing access to the rest of his battery like in gameplay

[lean garden]

How familiar are you with street racing

[somber obsidian]

very

I see

I mean

He’d probably live through it anyway

probably.

I mean maybe?

[lean garden]

Its not like some Might Guy gate opening thing

Its just temporarily overclocking

[somber obsidian]

Sadge

[feral cape]

Its significantly better than a damage attenuation mess

Additionally the fight itself is longer but again I am saying this should be a rework to the system

A lich under this would take less time and have a more engaging fight

[swift steppe]

i have a question but im not sure how i should ask it

[feral cape]

I have an answer probably

[tall echo]

Ideally by typing it out

[swift steppe]

what yall think the lore around oraxia and the isleweaver thingy is gonna be

im not sure if that makes sense

[feral cape]

Probably albretchs time in duviri

[swift steppe]

wdym he was in duviri too?

[feral cape]

Yea

[swift steppe]

bro how many people was in duviri bruh

[tall echo]

Scholar's landing

[feral cape]

Thats why its called scholars landing

He mightve brought oraxia to guard him

[swift steppe]

when was he in duviri i dont remember that

[tall echo]

Only mentioned in lore fragments

[swift steppe]

oh thats why okay

so will yall farm her day 1

or wait for hotfixes

[tall echo]

Absolutely farm asap

[swift steppe]

and also do we know when the next prime is coming out

[tall echo]

No

[swift steppe]

and who its going to be

[swift steppe]

okay thank you but if we can speculate do you think its gonna be late 2025 or early 2026

[tall echo]

Mid 2025

[swift steppe]

will i have time to buy yareli prime accessories pack or not thats my question basically

[tall echo]

It's like 3-4 primes per year

[swift steppe]

oh okay thank you

balls wasnt wasting time priming frames jesus

lol

cant wait for the update to get out so i can annoy my clanmates with oraxia farm and how pretty she is

and then harass them with lore (which they dont gaf about) that ill learn here

😎😎😎😎

[tall echo]

I just hope her alt helmet doesn't look like she got hit on the head with a pan extremely hard

[swift steppe]

what do you mean

why would she look like that

[tall echo]

The default helmet looks like that

[swift steppe]

mh

[tall echo]

So flat, like it's cut in half

[swift steppe]

to me it looks like hornet

in hollow knight and i really like that

i like hornet a lot

[tall echo]

Thing is hornet's mask goes up, oraxia's horns go backwards

[swift steppe]

i dont remember that

mh

lemme go check her helmet rq

[tall echo]

The fancy promo art has her looking slightly down

[swift steppe]

where can i find it

[tall echo]

Great question

[swift steppe]

mh i saw

the horns are going up tho

[tall echo]

Not much

[swift steppe]

when are we getting chubby frame woman

like grendel

[tall echo]

Still looks like her head is cut in half

[tall echo]

When DE finds a reason to make a frame like that

[swift steppe]

youre not wrong but shes a spider and spiders are weird so thays alright i think

[swift steppe]

i see i hope they find a reason one day

[tall echo]

Spiders don't have such flat heads

[swift steppe]

shes very pretty

[tall echo]

Kinda flat, but not table-flat

[swift steppe]

true

do you think balls made her or entrati stole her virus thingy

[tall echo]

Prob ballas, entrati only made 1.5 frames

[swift steppe]

wdym 1.5 frame

one frame and a half?

huh

[tall echo]

Made qorvex, took temple's design from ballas and injected into flare

[swift steppe]

ohhhh yeah i see

well i can say that entrati isnt really good at making pretty frames cuz qorvex looks like a block of cement

[tall echo]

He is made of concrete

[swift steppe]

but temple/flare is very beautiful

[swift steppe]

well entrati made a very ugly frame imo im sorry for every qorvex lover

[tall echo]

And albrecht isn't exactly as focused on fashion as ballas, he prefers function

[tall echo]

Qorvex isn't a pretty little princess but he still looks good

[swift steppe]

yeah i guess but jesus entrati couldve made a little effort idk cD

[swift steppe]

i mean idkkkkk hes hard to fashion

[tall echo]

Skill issue

[swift steppe]

true anyways

im so excited for isleweaver

cant wait to scream in alliance chat

and to bother my parents about that when they dont even understand what im saying

and then showing oraxia to my mom that is scared of spiders xd

[tall echo]

If I did that it'd be like screaming in space

[swift steppe]

why

do you not have alliance chat

is your clan dead?

[tall echo]

I do, but the entire alliance is dead silent 99% of the time

[swift steppe]

boring (mine too)

[tall echo]

Joined the main clan 4 years ago. It was active back then. Now it's just sad and quiet

[swift steppe]

but i keep it alive by being extremely annoying lol

[swift steppe]

they all stopped playing?

thats so boringgggggg

being an adult sucks i dont want to grow up

[tall echo]

No, they just don't talk

[swift steppe]

boring

[tall echo]

I contemplate leaving like once per week but the alliance discord is still fairly active and after being in it for 4 years I'd feel bad for just disappearing

[swift steppe]

lol

i did what you want to do i didnt tell my old clan i was leaving or anything

i avoided so many questions honestly

i left because they left the alliance we was in for no reason and i was playing with the people in the alliance

anyways are dojos canon

or are dojo just gameplay things

[tall echo]

They're canon

[swift steppe]

whats the lore around them

[tall echo]

Same as gameplay, places made by tenno to gather

[swift steppe]

okay i see

[tall echo]

The dojo fragment does specifically point out that tenno architecture is distinctly orokin-inspired

[swift sentinel]

Next Prime will probably be either Gyre or Caliban, depending on the order DE is going with moving forward.

[low girder]

What's the term used for like void embodies

Embodymeny

Like how drifter read the durviri book, the void understood that and thus created it

It was explained in the new war, but I forgot what it's called

[lean garden]

Conceptual Embodiment?

[sage moat]

im glad titania is finally getting her affair in oraxia

oberon's been with nekros out of wedlock since they came out its long past due.

luckily if you've ever read a midsummer night's dream this is just kinda what happens they're used to it

[lean garden]

Huh?

We're getting titania stuff with isleweaver?

[digital grail]

Wouldn't oraxia eat titainia?......wait she probably does if you know what I mean

[sage moat]

no i just think oraxia is going to parallel titania in a lot of ways the same way nekros parallels oberon. if not in moveset, at least in aesthetic

spider versus butterfly, earth versus the void, nature versus artificial duviri

oberon and nekros have a similar body type and that whole life vs death dynamic going on

[vivid steppe]

What a weird thing to say

[digital grail]

Yeah.....

I'm not proud of myself

[lean garden]

Ooooooh

[cursive depot]

ahahhaha

[vivid steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/john-mulaney-wife-gif-26388347

[cursive depot]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-dog-spongebob-leash-leash-spongebob-walkies-gif-15346724021143217478

me n him

[vivid steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/no-lies-detected-gif-18484376

[hexed oxide]

O_O

[hexed oxide]

is that from the cutscene ?

[sage moat]

are we ever gonna get to meaningfully pilot the vessels, do you think?

because on one hand, i think "what if warframes were big" is a really stupid method of fighting a cosmic deity

but on the other, it would be kinda disappointing at this point if we didn't, yeah?

[feral cape]

Well if albrecht is confident wally is a reflection of himself perhaps he thinks wally is arrogant enough to fight the operator on there terms just to you know prove how feeble we are

Like thr anti spiral from gurren lagan

[sage moat]

wally is actually somewhat similar to the anti spiral as a manifestation of indifference and lack of passion

[restive river]

Yeah but the anti spiral like didn’t care at all, Wally clearly does care

From what I remember at least
Like
Wally isn’t emotionless

It’s just he largely does not care unless it involves him

That’s why he got uppity about us saving the Hex, we were finding love, we were defying him

[graceful swan]

Tbh Indifferent doesn’t actually mean emotionless as many believe

[restive river]

I know

From what I recall of the anti spiral though (it’s been a while) idk if I’d say it’s as 1:1 to Wally

[graceful swan]

Doubt it

I doubt DE even had Anti Spiral in mind when making Wally

[feral cape]

I dont mean in like every situation I mean just that wally like the anti spiral may fight us in the way we fight to prove how strong it is

By beating us at the thing we do

[graceful swan]

Using emotions?

[feral cape]

Mecha

https://tenor.com/view/gurren-lagann-tengen-toppa-gurren-lagann-ttgl-super-tengen-toppa-gurren-lagann-super-gurren-lagann-gif-27016595

Us^

Not 13 trillion light years tall tho

[restive river]

Oh no yeah I can see that

He’s already used transference on a vessel and we won that fight

[proper barn]

well using a mecha powered by emotions.

[sage moat]

i think de had similar themes in mind when making wally though

love triumphing over indifference, humanity's passion beating the cold callousness of the universe

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/gurren-lagann-gurren-anti-spiral-anime-power-gif-15307373

[sage moat]

gurren lagann was the best 8/10 i've ever seen

[feral cape]

Its probably my second favorite mecha

Code geass is my favorite mecha

[sage moat]

pazuul is, humorously, not a good cult leader

at the halfway point in exterminate narmer missions (which, btw, can we PLEASE get a narmerized star chart where you can just play the narmer missions without the archon hunt) he says "i. i planned this. yep. totally"

additionally, nira is on corpus tilesets and amar is on grineer tilesets, is the third on infested? that doesn't sound right

nope, boreal also uses grineer

[proper barn]

No one is on earth one is on Jupiter and one is on Mars.

[sage moat]

all three are pretty distinctive tilesets so no fault there

[proper barn]

Yee

[sage moat]

and vinny good news is i think i've somewhat broken from my faction-mindedness by instead seperating frames based on my clan lore. now i have the power

[normal mountain]

dangit, now I want to see if there are any He-Man memes I can use to reply with

https://tenor.com/view/he-man-he-mana-gif-5304825

PERFECT

[strange turtle]

Faction-mindedness?

[proper barn]

lul

[sage moat]

i wanted all my frames to be themed around factions and was losing my mind at little things like "cephalon" being a faction not recgonized by the codex but recognized by some weapons and the wiki, and the coda technically NOT being infested adversaries but instead "techrot" adversaries

[digital grail]

Why cant we be that tall though:(

We should transcend the heavens

[strange turtle]

We can

Don’t be quitter

[ashen pulsar]

Use transference

[misty helm]

Afaik the whole 'techrot' thing being refered to as a different thing than the technocyte/current-timeline infestation by the game, is the same thing than calling 'protoframes' to the strain the Hex are using.

Technically speaking both are the same. Our 'post-Orokin Era' infestation is a technocyte, and the so called "techrot" it's too. The only difference being the "techrot" took root on technology and our infestation uses both (as it's 1000000% more advanced).

[graceful swan]

<@&778745217037238293>

[vast depot]

Gottem

[graceful swan]

Thanks

[shell tulip]

Wow chief. Let's take it easy.

[lean garden]

Kaya describes them as sorta "cousins"

[mortal rampart]

Rusalka in duviri?

[hollow siren]

yes, she's possessed by Wally

[mortal rampart]

Oh yeah she/he escaped right under our noses, right

[graceful swan]

More like

Wally left her body spoke his language then went back in her body and teleported away

[mortal rampart]

Right...

[hollow siren]

And it's hard to even say how much of her remains, both in terms of her physical body and in terms of the actual person

[restive river]

She’s mostly hollow it seems, with some of her remaining but most of her is gone so that Wally may easily inhabit her

I do wonder if from the bits of her that remain if she will give insight into when he started to use her as the door into 1999

[hollow siren]

At this point it might just be closer to Wally simply impersonating her

[restive river]

I still think it was the ARG that made her that door, her investigating things but we shall perhaps see

[restive river]

They hinted at the fact there’s some of her still there and we also know he was basically piloting her like a Warframe
It’s her body, he just inhabits it

It’s proper possession not just him shapeshifting to fool us
Remember, Neci completely disappeared

He took her

[mortal rampart]

What who's neci

[hollow siren]

yeah, but it seems over time it's become more and more overtaking, so I'm saying that with how far gone she is now, it might almost be more accurate to call it an impersonation rather than a simple possession

[restive river]

Go play the hex quest.

[mortal rampart]

I have?? Played it when it came out

[restive river]

Neci is Russalka :p

[hollow siren]

Major Neci Rusalka, she's Velimir and Minerva's adoptive daughter who joined Scaldra

[mortal rampart]

Oh

[restive river]

I’d say it’s still possession since it is still her body, even with him hollowing her out and being in full control
He may be impersonating her to an extent but it is factually more him than her in her body

Like I wouldn’t say we impersonate a frame, we possess them via transference
That’s what Wally is doing, except where we help our frames by taking away their pain he is taking away her from herself, hollowing her out

She was his door into 1999 and ig when he left he just kinda took her in her entirety
She disappeared from 1999, physically she is gone from that year

[woven coyote]

When you get so mad at someone squatting your timeline you just take the door with you

[restive river]

Lmao real

[hollow siren]

hey tbf Entrati did the same when he went to 1999

Wally's just returning the favor

[restive river]

I do still wonder what Albrecht used to go back and fourth between 1999 and the origin system

[graceful swan]

Nah he just disintegrated the door

[restive river]

Cause his coffin time machine seemed more. One way

[hollow siren]

It was because Loid destroyed it

that was to ensure it was one-way

before that it worked both ways

[restive river]

I mean aside from that

We never see a machine on the 1999 side

[graceful swan]

And it was so Wally couldn't use the machine if he ever went to the labs

[restive river]

^

[woven coyote]

Could have been in another safe house

[restive river]

Yeah
Like the finger or heart that totally exists in 1999

I do find it funny that they brought up the whole heart thing and never explained how the protos are powered

[woven coyote]

I mean the one known safe house clearly works and has void tech so....

[restive river]

Just that
Yup they have a connection to the void, how? 🤷‍♀️

[restive river]

If they ever do an expansion on 1999 I hope we see a safe house that has a miniature heart in it or something

Tbh my dream expansion for 1999 would be to go to any of the locations in the skybox
So the carnival/fair or the big government looking tower

[woven coyote]

Maybe he invokes it through the void scribbles on the walls

[restive river]

Mostly the carnival
Clownframe proto

[restive river]

That’s an interesting theory actually, through void tongue he essentially let’s just enough of the void to be pumped through that it can power void tech
Just a small amount, relatively but enough

[graceful swan]

I wonder if Eleanor saying it doesn't have one is reliable considering Albrecht could've built one in secret

[woven coyote]

Cant get in game right now but doesnt one of the scribble sets connect to the void gate we use to get to the backrooms?

[restive river]

There’s some voidy scribbles on the door that lead to the “void gate” to the backroom

Which idk if the backroom is physically in the mall or just nearby and Albrecht used voidtech to make a direct door?

[graceful swan]

Pocket Void gate

[woven coyote]

I think someone mentioned they could spot the mall out the window but i never tried to see myself

[restive river]

Idk yet if Albrecht scribbling everywhere is a good sign or not actually

[restive river]

I think that was disproven? Not sure though

[woven coyote]

Not sure either

[graceful swan]

You can see the Mall from inside in certain seasons

[restive river]

We also just
Don’t get a very good view of the mall from the outside so I’d say it’s hard to say

Also Malls can just be big so it could be the same building still

It’s not like we have a full floor plan of the whole thing

[woven coyote]

Yeah

[graceful swan]

It’s a backroom to a store in the Mall

[restive river]

Yeah

My guess is the voidy door gate thing is more so for protection

[graceful swan]

I wonder what happens to a random person if they try entering the gate

[restive river]

Like a civilian from the mall?

[graceful swan]

Yeah

[restive river]

If they have access they can prob go through fine
Without it probably not

[graceful swan]

Think it just flings them back or something

[restive river]

Though I wonder if Kalymos is who gives access or it’s the fact we and the Hex are void-touched

[restive river]

Just slams them directly into the wall behind them-

I do wonder if and kinda hope Kalymos will talk this arc

[graceful swan]

Watch it be a Void portal and just kicks them outside the mall

[restive river]

She’s very smart which iirc is why Albrecht refutes Oro

[graceful swan]

I do think Albrecht gave us access from the start though

[restive river]

It just puts them outside next to some infestation-

[restive river]

It felt like Kalymos guiding us and gave us access but
Eh hard to tell tbh

[woven coyote]

Magic bull in bg3 flashbacks

"I said moooo"

[restive river]

Cause there’s 2 doors
1 normal door with Albrecht’s scribblings, likely just to notify us which door
And the “void gate” that seems like actual void tech

[restive river]

I gotta play that still ):

[graceful swan]

Imagine the Backroom is just a pocket dimension

[woven coyote]

Beware of animals in that game lol

[restive river]

I might play a druid so I can talk to them lol

[graceful swan]

I wanna drag a civilian to the door to find out what happens

[woven coyote]

Wouldnt be surprised if there was some iddle dialogue from the civvies

[restive river]

“Stop flirting with Lettie, I need to test science magic doors on you”

[graceful swan]

Did the scribbles on the door actually have translations though?

[restive river]

Iirc they’re just some from the labs

I don’t think any of his scribbles have been translated actually

Not even the one that looks like it may be a timeline of events

[graceful swan]

I haven't really thought about them past cool art

I just remembered them looking like one of the Witness's ships can't remember what he called them

[sage moat]

did arthur get stabbed before or after his protoframification

because if entrati can stab a warframe that really speaks to his physical strength. unless he like, really modded up that skana

[lean garden]

I mean...

At one point the protoframes were all gunned down

so theres a neat window where sharp sword can punch through

[hexed oxide]

Just thought about it, why's he scarred when eleanor mentions their regen factor renders them unable to keep piercings ?

[blissful merlin]

IIRC, Amir gave him that scar when he couldn’t control his lightning powers

[restive river]

Kaya has piercings…

Or a nose ring at least iirc

Also Eleanor has earrings
And i don’t think she’s the only one
Ofc these may have been attached in a different way but. Idk

[sage moat]

well theoretically if they had those piercing pre-techrot

[graceful swan]

Well scars don't fully disappear and are a permanent mark on the skin most if not all of the time it’s on his face the most normal skin part of his body

[restive river]

Eleanor: "I miss my piercings. Casualty of our enhanced healing faculties, alas. I liked hearing them rattle."

sounds like she had them in pre-techrot and due to her healing factor she lost them

so
minor inconsistency OR the piercings and earrings we see aren't piercings

[graceful swan]

Or she can do it but it just heals

[strange turtle]

Could the tower be O.R.Os?

https://tenor.com/view/cyberpunk2077-keanu-we-have-a-city-to-burn-handsome-shades-off-gif-16336796

[strange turtle]

Pestricaframe 🙏

[restive river]

ORO works with the government
So

[proper barn]

I also have a secondary idea but yeah.

[daring lagoon]

is there any video explaining warframe full lore??

[graceful swan]

https://youtu.be/5ekJpbdRz4Y?si=uWPouyDDkqrYWE_h

https://youtu.be/lEl-NFbqhoQ?si=kD806mWQhx0QR_NX

[lilac aspen]

Think it means if she removes them, the holes close up

Unless the piercings we see are kinda like permanently a part of them now due to the techrot

[daring lagoon]

tysm

[restive river]

She says she misses hearing them so
I’m inclined to say that largely they healed them off of them

Kaya is a special case tbh since she is the least infested in appearance

[woven coyote]

There are "piercings" don't require the piercing part afaik

Same as earrings that just close around the ear instead of fastening through

[waxen gyro]

Could the operator theoretically use transference on any kind of technology?

[tall echo]

Transference doesn't work on technology

[waxen gyro]

What does it work on then?

[tall echo]

So far, anything organic

[pallid spoke]

Or biomechanical I'd assume, considering some of the things we've used Transference on that didn't look organic on the outside.

[tall echo]

On the outside

[pallid spoke]

...That's what I said.

[tall echo]

Yes

[pallid spoke]

The Orokin sure loved their biomechanical engineering.

Though at least part of it was due to the Sentients right? They did that to make it harder for the Sentients to hack?

[strange turtle]

That was the Warframes

Like it could be the reason (or part of it) that they liked meat towers, but it’s only stated with frames

[pallid spoke]

What about the Necramech's and those Orokin Maw's we can use Transference on then?

[strange turtle]

There’s theories on the Necramech having people parts inside but we don’t know it for sure, and the Golden Maw’s are one of
A - Weird void dream things

B - Magic fantasyland creatures
Depending on if we’re talking about Origin or Duviri

[lean garden]

Necramechs are akin to using an emulator to play nintendo games on your mobile phone

[pallid spoke]

I'd just assumed that our mechs have Transference bolts that are designed to allow control over a mechanical target, if the Necramech's don't actually have biological components.

[spice spade]

Omg not ivara was a final girl and killed the monster that attacked warframes

[tall echo]

The leverians are about the frames

[spice spade]

Yep that’s where i read it

[tall echo]

Yeah but you said "not ivara". That was an ivara

[spice spade]

i’m saying not in disbelief Hun

[tall echo]

I don't see how that works in that sentence

[sage moat]

then you are but a fool

though actually it would be better formatted as "not ivara being a final girl"

what are those things btw. the warframe hunters. i want those as adversaries

[tall echo]

The myrmidon

[sage moat]

thank you, lets get some myrmidons

[lean garden]

like this:
| Omg | not ivara was | a final girl and killed the monster that attacked warframes |

| Fluff | expression of disbelief | item of disbelief |

Internet slang gets bizare as time goes on the more its user add their cultures into its frankenstein hot pot

[old dome]

more like "not ivara" "was a final girl"

-# (altho even as internet slang it still doesnt make sense grammar-wise bc it should be "omg not ivara being a final girl", not "was")

[sage moat]

doesn't this disprove the theory that our warframes are also made of people

[earnest junco]

was umbra still a person when we crafted him?

didnt he have memories that we explored?

[sage moat]

umbra could be an exception for 2 reasons

1. we rebuild him with the transference bolt that contains the memories we explore

2. we rebuild him using actual pieces of the original as the base

so whether or not we're actually making a new umbra or just putting the old one back together is up for debate, tmk

[earnest junco]

very ship of thesus

i think that in spirit? our warframes are people, but theyre not physically people.

hence the "Its complicated" line from drifter

[lean garden]

Pretty much

[lean garden]

point 2 is tough because its a main plot point that there was so little umbra left we had to raid a vault to get more data

thats how we get our hands on the vitruvian

[sage moat]

i mean either way its clear they have personality traits, from the animation sets. so at the very least we know they have some level of cognition --- even if its just broken insane tortured infested cognition. i think its more likely we're just building clones without using new people but like. if its a clone of someone that used to be human, and it has thoughts similar to what became of that human, does it count as having human traits?

[sage moat]

been a while since i played, pretty sure you're right

[tall echo]

We evolved from ship of theseus to person of theseus

[earnest junco]

there was a suggestion a while ago by someone whos name has escaped me, but having like a "Umbral" catalyst that allows us to;

1. Relive some memory specific to that warframe
2. Allows them to move around like umbra does after transferring out of it

[sage moat]

unless im mistaken, that was the plan for a while. 2 at least

[lean garden]

I think the crux of that debate was whether warframes we make are ethically sourced, nevermind the ethics of the warframe's existence

[sage moat]

i think it was somatic fibers or whatever they're called? the plan was to make them an upgrade that could make any frame have umbra's sentient but it was decided against for some reason. that might be wrong its just hearsay

[tall echo]

That was a DE plan

They [scrap]ped it due to lore reasons

[lean garden]

infinitely [DE]layed

[sage moat]

well they are ethically sourced insofar as we don't turn people into warframes. they are not ethically sourced given most frame blueprints and the resources to craft the parts are attained through relentless killing

[earnest junco]

we dont turn people into warframe ANYMORE

[lean garden]

welcome, you are walking down old threads

[tall echo]

It may not be ethical, but it's morally righteous

[sage moat]

im fine with that, no problem retreading old convos as long as people aren't like tired to death of them

[earnest junco]

also that entire line about warframes not being people might be drifter trying to calm down aoi (I think thats who the convo is with)

[sage moat]

nope! quincy

[tall echo]

Q

[lean garden]

Q.Q

[earnest junco]

ill have to look through the kimulacrum again then

[tall echo]

How fast do you type

[earnest junco]

brush up on my convos

[sage moat]

lots of practice

[restive river]

DE showed this off actually
That’s what somatic fibers were gonna be for, they had showed it off with an octavia in the helminth room back in like. 2019? Cause it was before deimos and the remodeling of the room
The idea was it gave frames the sapient passive but unlike Umbra they couldn’t use abilities
It was ultimately scrapped because people don’t actually like the sapience passive as it can have buggy and unreliable AI (hence why the augment to disable it exists)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aF4VJDKt4E&t=2579s

[cerulean rover]

The augment for umbra also exists cause his passive literally breaks things and they didn't wanna fix it lol

[stark bridge]

does Dagath's horse - Rakhali - look like a Kaithe because of the void or Duviri, or do Kaithes in Duviri look like that because of Rakhali and Dagath being a Naberus tale?

basically the same question as what came first; the chicken or the egg

[graceful swan]

Was chosen as a Kaithe for the ability the horse still came first

[stark bridge]

i'm assuming Rakhali also looked like a Kaithe when Dagath summoned it after she climbed out of the trash heap

because that's also what happens in her idle

[proper barn]

Good question.

[stark bridge]

but i do know that Rakhali didn't look like a Kaithe before it died, since that's Rakhali's skull on her shoulder

[graceful swan]

She tried summoning a dead horse once she got the ability and well it summoned a bunch of Kaithes instead

[proper barn]

But are kaiths just the name for Orokin Era horses? Cuz we have dogs and cats but they aren't named that.

Like there are Dax In duviri but we still have real Dax.

[stark bridge]

i feel like Kaithes are Duviri exclusive, honestly?

like they don't look like they're from the Origin system

[proper barn]

Do the Dax in duviri?

[graceful swan]

Kaithe is a Duviri thing
Horses are an Origin System thing

[stark bridge]

i might need to go listen to her story from Grandmother again

[stark bridge]

Teshin calls them false Dax

i think i have a follow up question

can Warframes pull things directly from the void without having a connection to a Tenno?

the void is the explenation for a lot of things, even to things that can't normally be explained, like Dagath summoning a ghost horse

so if they can pull things from the void itself, it would make sense that Rakhali looks like a Kaithe

[proper barn]

maybe. we don't know.

[graceful swan]

"I doubt I need to tell you what faceless thing clambered jerkily from the facility's waste disposal heap, in the still of a Naberus night. How she sought for her Dax nikana, and found only the overseer's whip-blade. Confused, vacant, she wandered. Why was she alone? Where was her loyal Rakhali? She reached deep into despair and memory, and summoned up a ghost-horse to run alongside her on the night winds. Now, at least, she was no longer alone.

She used Conceptual Embodiment

[stark bridge]

once again Conceptual Embodiment is the solution

i hate this game /j

heightened emotions are a surprisingly big thing in this game's lore

[graceful swan]

The Void couldn't use a Horse for some reason so used the next best thing

[swift sentinel]

I think kaithes are like kubrows, Orokin reproductions of extinct horses

[stark bridge]

but Kubrows actually look sort of like a breed of dog

Kaithes look completely different, being very skeletal and even faceless

and the other forms are either skeletal and mechanic, or zombified

i don't know if the other two are native to Duviri, though

or anywhere

[swift sentinel]

I think that might be a Duviri/Void thing, the real kaithes were probably more fleshed out

[graceful swan]

Kaithes are made from a book while Kubrows aren't

The Void can make fictional things real

[swift sentinel]

The Dagath story suggests that kaithes are real animals

[graceful swan]

No, it doesn't it suggests CE

[stark bridge]

apparently they're all of Duviri and of nowhere else

[graceful swan]

"I doubt I need to tell you what faceless thing clambered jerkily from the facility's waste disposal heap, in the still of a Naberus night. How she sought for her Dax nikana, and found only the overseer's whip-blade. Confused, vacant, she wandered. Why was she alone? Where was her loyal Rakhali? She reached deep into despair and memory, and summoned up a ghost-horse to run alongside her on the night winds. Now, at least, she was no longer alone.

[swift sentinel]

Dagath had a kaithe before becoming a Warframe

[graceful swan]

She had a Horse not a Kaithe

[stark bridge]

it has been specified that Rakhali was a horse specifically

[strange plinth]

"Many gifts they gave her. Fine armor. Rubedo rings. And a horse of her own, on the condition that she never, ever named it."

[lean garden]

Honse

[swift sentinel]

Ah, then I misremembered the story. A kaithe is indeed a fictional version of a horse

[graceful swan]

She just used CE and the Kaithe is what came

[swift sentinel]

Reached for her horse and CE conjured a kaithe

[lean garden]

Is... this some OC fanfic about your operator and ordis?

[copper pendant]

Bruh i thought that was legit for a sec

[quick dawn]

yes🙂

[quick dawn]

Thank you so much. I really wish it were real

[modern steppe]

Oh
Oh that’s an AI generated image

[sly ibex]

Please do not post AI images or such in this server. Also, fanfics are better on the forums. We don't really have a place to share them in the server.

[graceful swan]

People trying to drag slop into the channel lol

[modern steppe]

I’ve only been here for one day bruv

[graceful swan]

It’s not normally this bad lol

[tall echo]

At least not in this channel

[strange turtle]

D’you think Kaithe’s were just some kind of orokin fictional creature already then, and Euleria just used her own version for Duviri?

Like how we use already existing ideas like fae and werewolves and unicorns

[lyric cape]

I'd assume that they'd be at least a popular fictive take on horses, seeing as we see stickers of them in the Zariman within the classrooms (both in the tilesets, and in the classroom scene in the New War)

[viscid scroll]

Orokin could probably make unicorns

[sage moat]

i think ive found my favorite kim convo

rank3convo4, where eleanor talks to the driter about the operator

its really sweet that eleanor is concerned about this traumatized space child from the far flung future

which reminds me, i hope we get some operator exclusive content soon the way we have drifter exclusive content. duviri is obviously the drifter's area to defend but i'd like to see maybe something with hunhow

or the stalker

[hollow siren]

Jade Shadows is with the Operator

[sage moat]

thats true!

i want more of those. seems the story is super drifter focused rn and id like to see what operator is up to

[graceful swan]

DE told us why Drifter was going to 1999

after that for the most part it is player choice

You can use either as both are the main character

You could even use Operator in Whispers

[sage moat]

yeah so you could theoretically have drifter doing everything and operator twiddling their thumbs. i don't like that

[graceful swan]

Then use Operator

Which means Drifter would be twidling thumbs instead

[sage moat]

i do, but even then we're not getting any insight into the operator as a character the way we got a TON of insight into the drifter via kim

who you play as doesn't matter nearly as much as whose in the story, and whose in the story is the drifter right now. feels less like they're using this interesting dynamic of operator and drifter and more like they're just using the drifter because its easier to write a traumatized adult than a traumatized child

but we're still early on, its possible they have plans. i just don't want the operator relegated to a glorified cosmetic

[hollow siren]

we've had Operator focus like that for years

[graceful swan]

You've had like 10 years of Operator-only stuff while Drifter has only been a thing for like 4 years

[hollow siren]

ever since War Within pretty much

Drifter has just been rapid-firing

[woven coyote]

Also this was just one update of drifter character development

[graceful swan]

Operator not going was even explained by Lotus

[sage moat]

we are pretty early into having drifter as a character! but i'd argue against operator being the focus for 10 years because actually what do we know about operator from before tnw? They had very few lines and very little personality

[sage moat]

i understand why the drifter is the focus in universe. im saying out of universe i would appreciate the writing team focusing on operator.
the only reason drifter is the only one who can go to 1999 is because the writers said so so they could better flesh out drifter as a character, which i think worked fantastically

[woven coyote]

Cue "dream not of who you are but who you want to be"

[woven coyote]

The key thing is that drifter is the focus for now

[sage moat]

yeah

[graceful swan]

Lived on a ship for a bit
Made a deal got saved from deal
Immune to Infestation
Has space trauma
Got full powers back
Helps Warframes cope
Helped destroy the Orokin

There's loads we know about Operator

[sage moat]

that's not things we know about them as a character

that's things we know happened to them

[graceful swan]

Yes it is

Things that happened are things we know about them

[sage moat]

how does operator respond to the space trauma? what does operator think of drifter? does the operator view anywhere as home? does the operator care about ordis? does the opearator like the sentients? what was the operator's point of view during the old war? did they think it was justified?

[graceful swan]

That's not even relevant info needed

You asked what we know
I gave you the Operator lore

[sage moat]

do you genuinely think that the thought process of one of the point-of-view characters in a sci fi story doesn't matter.

because that's an absurd take

[graceful swan]

What you're asking for is needless exposition

[sage moat]

sorry im getting heated, my argument just boils down to "i think operator needs to be fleshed out more as a character"

[proper barn]

Okay the know some of these cuz we know some of the drifters stuff and war.

[stiff fable]

I mean, they're the same person

[sage moat]

i disagree that this is needless

[proper barn]

Like if we assume the Drifter and Operator have the same opinions.

Or at least that their memories are merged somehow.

[stiff fable]

Heck it's implied that they share the same thoughts and feelings, that they're literally mentally connected

[graceful swan]

You don't need to know what a character thinks of another character

[sage moat]

but that's not a valid assumption. they have gone through immensely different things. one is significantly older

[proper barn]

I disagree.

[sage moat]

you literally do this is a story with characters

[graceful swan]

A story can be great without it

[proper barn]

Yeah I think Nem is being very obtuse.

But I also think Captain is correct.

[stiff fable]

And also like the PC on your orbiter gets the Drifter's KIM mail, totally valid to think the Operator is answering some of it

[sage moat]

now if drifter and operator are "mentally connected" that's a valid argument. i haven't seen proof of that really? but if its true that's valid

[graceful swan]

Listen
The operator saying what thy think of Drifter isn't needed for a good story to exist

[sage moat]

i agree. but i feel like it would exclusively be a positive impact on the story to know more about what our POV character thinks about other characters

[graceful swan]

Lore doesn't need every single random question to be answered

[proper barn]

To answer this. The operator like all of their space trauma gets treated by and then locked away my Margulis until the war within and then you deal with it with Teshin. The Zariman is the closest place They know to home. For drifter it's Zariman or Duviri. Also all the holdfasts call it our home. The operator loves ordis. The operator fights sentients mainly cuz they are trying to exterminate the system. During the old war they where commandos/bodyguards. What the orokin did wasn't but them defending people from Sentients was.

These are all the answers to the best of my ability.

[proper barn]

This feels needlessly mean.

[graceful swan]

It's not me being mean

[sage moat]

correct, but we should know more about the character we are playing as. your argument is like "dune would still be good if paul never said what he thought about karrakis or the spice"
I think, at the very least, we need more opportunities to decide what our operator is, like how we can decide what our drifter thinks about most situations. and that's gonna require a lot more decisions in the story

[graceful swan]

I'm just stating lore doesn't need every random though answered that's a truth not mean

[sage moat]

i dont feel its mean, especially since ive gotten a little bit mean

[proper barn]

Anyway

[graceful swan]

Yeah I don't know what Vinny finds mean in me saying not every question needs an answer

[sage moat]

you're fine nem i don't think you're trolling or being rude i just really disagree with your take on this

[proper barn]

I answered all the questions to the best of my ability.

[sage moat]

and i respect that vinny! but what im asking for are fewer assumptions and more text. like how do we know a lot of this? it's based on what other characters are saying or what we assume most people would be like in those situations. i feel, at least

i haven't gone through a ton of stuff but i feel like its a lot of assumption. good on you for answering them though, i think i agree on most if not all of them, but its alrgely speculation

[proper barn]

The first thing it's all said in war within.

Teshin says Margulis put us into the second dream and locked our memories away so like we could heal basically.

The Zariman thing is said by the Drifter and the holdfasts.

They say "defend your home" and you seemingly go along with it and such and the drifters lines about it in 1999.

I guess I am just assuming rhe ordis thing but we at least care about him cuz we are broken up about it in new war and the fact he got hurt.

[sage moat]

the operator doesn't have to think of the zariman as their home in order to go along with it. i haven't played angels of the zariman in a while so correct me if im wrong and this does exist --- but basically the solution here is a dialogue prompt that's like
"This place is my home"
"This place isn't my home anymore, but ill still defend it those who would ransack it"
"This place was never my home, but i'll still defend it from the void"

[proper barn]

The most I am i guess assuming is the Sentient part but like the sentients we fight are the ones that want to Exterminate (or did) want to Exterminate everyone.

The bodyguard commando thing is just from all the information about warframes in the old war.

Also they where called the prime vanguard.

[whole pine]

I'd love something like KIM to flesh out the operator and maybe some other characters more
I'm a fresh newbie 1 month in that did all main story quests and had a blast, but the possibility of having to switch back to operator for the next big story quest makes me groan
I hope that DE will cook something awesome that will make me love the operator as much as I do the drifter 😌

[glacial bough]

A fair bit that's entirely up the player, same as the majority of the Drifter stuff. The Op's attitude and opinions have been exposited though the dialogue and meter choices we've had up to New War. Sure, it's a lot more broad strokes but Op is nowhere near forgotten or left blank

[swift steppe]

WHO is euleria

[swift steppe]

basically what you want is DE developping Operator's personality

like they did with Drifter

Drifterr has a personality now and we can decide what it is with KIM chat or whatever

Operator does not have that as far as i know its just a void touched child thats heavily traumatized

basically you want to have more RP things with Operator (like Drifter has with KIM chat) is that what youre saying or am i getting everything wrong?

[woven coyote]

Euleria/gomaitru/mother

[swift steppe]

why does she has SO many names like girl stop

also what do they mean by "and euleria just used her own version of duviri?" mother isnt in duviri? wtf? i dont understand

[woven coyote]

Euleria was original name
Mother when they forgot their names bcs infestation
Gomaitru when we help them reconcile and they give eachother new names

[woven coyote]

Tales of duviri is a story book written by her to help children aboard the zariman deal with void exposure

[swift steppe]

HUH? its written by mother? wtf their question makes no sense then because duviri did NOT exist when uhm... she was writing the book? XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[woven coyote]

Drifter created actual duviri by basically a missfire of the books teachings,

High stress+focusing on book+void= actual duviri

[swift steppe]

yeah

[woven coyote]

Whose question?

[swift steppe]

.

them ^

[woven coyote]

Their question is if kaithes as a fictional creature predate euleria writing the book

Like asking if elves predate tolkien

[swift steppe]

what

theyre asking if horses are canon in warframe?

[woven coyote]

If kaithes were written by euleria or if they were already part of folklore beforehand

[swift steppe]

I DONT understand

are they asking if horses existed in warframe??

[woven coyote]

KAITHES

[sage moat]

sorry doing a void fissure, yes you are 100% correct

[swift steppe]

YES BUT KAITHES ARE HORSES

[ashen pulsar]

not exactly

[woven coyote]

Unicorns arent horses

[swift steppe]

its okay dont worry and also why did nobody understand

[woven coyote]

Same situation

[swift steppe]

WAIT KAITHES HAVE HORNS?

[ashen pulsar]

and wings

[woven coyote]

Kaithes are ficitional like unicorns

[sage moat]

i figurred there were real actual kaithes and then they also call duviri's fantasy kaithes "Kaithes"

[woven coyote]

Like we are talking fictional books and fictional creatures

[swift steppe]

oh i thought they was asking if horses were canon in warframe

well kaithes whatever

[ashen pulsar]

they are

[woven coyote]

Horse≠kaithe

[ashen pulsar]

horses are canon, dagath lore shows that iirc

[woven coyote]

Kaithes may be horse shaped but arent horses

[woven coyote]

Yeah

[ashen pulsar]

but kaithes could've been the equivalent of unicorns for the orokin, essentially

we dont know

[woven coyote]

Yeah and that was the basis of the original question

[sage moat]

but dagath's ability calls them kaithes

[ashen pulsar]

it does?

[woven coyote]

If euleria was the first to write the fictional animal kaithe

Or if it was already a fictional animal before written by someone else

[swift steppe]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[swift steppe]

that makes so much more sense now

[woven coyote]

Original dax that was turned to dagath had a horse

Dagath after being a warframe makes kaithes

[ashen pulsar]

so it does.

[sage moat]

i see that's... eugh

[swift sentinel]

Dagath the Dax has a horse, Dagath the Warframe summons a kaithe

[sage moat]

i preferred my headcanon but i can make a new one

[ashen pulsar]

so how would dagath tie into duviri?

[sage moat]

and its fun that grandmother gave her name to a warframe that summons spectral versions of something her daughter may have made

[sage moat]

maybe the dax just liked the book, who knows

[swift sentinel]

There's no connection

[swift steppe]

when will we get dagath prime

[woven coyote]

Or maybe kaithes were already a fictional animal by the time euleria wrote duviri

Hence the question that started this whole chaos

[swift steppe]

i hope she gets out soon itll make me play her again

[ashen pulsar]

there kinda is

kaithes are from duviri, so there has to be some relation

[sage moat]

we don't know that

[woven coyote]

I give up

[sage moat]

😭

[swift sentinel]

Only if you believe Euleria invented kaithes, and they weren't an existing fictional animal

[ashen pulsar]

that was the question

but there's no real reason to believe either

[swift steppe]

whatever kaithes are cool

[ashen pulsar]

didnt grandmother give her name so she wouldnt die?

[swift steppe]

yes she did give her name to the warframe but idk if dying has something to do w it

[swift sentinel]

I believe the story is that Grandmother trades the name Dagath for her life

[ashen pulsar]

yeah

[woven coyote]

Well it also doesn't make it clear how much of it was just narberus tradition

[ashen pulsar]

huh?

[woven coyote]

The idea is that you shouldnt walk empty handed during narberus because you should have something to give should you encounter someone, sorta like orokin level trick or treat

Grandmother didn't have something to give besides her name

[ashen pulsar]

but dagath was alr on a murder spree tho?

[woven coyote]

Not necessarily at that time

[swift sentinel]

Yeah, ultimately, the Dagath story might just be that, a scary story told on Naberus.

But it's probably a little bit true

[ashen pulsar]

"and kept my head" seems to imply that she would've lost it otherwise

[woven coyote]

It's probably got bits of truth, like obviously to someone with conections like grandmother she could probably easily learn of the couple's deaths
She likely actually named dagath since she makes a point of explaining it was indeed her who gave the name

[woven coyote]

Yeah but also that is her assumption, it is what she took from the encounter

[swift sentinel]

The best stories are like the best lies, having a little bit of truth at the centre

[woven coyote]

Just like grandma tells, "the figure before me seemed to say"

There are no doubt parts she fills out with her understanding of the events

[ashen pulsar]

hmm fair

[woven coyote]

Now to decisively say what was fact and what was fiction is beyond me, i can just guess what makes sense to me

Just like we still have no idea if bluva really existed

Or if the werewolf infested grineer was real

[ashen pulsar]

im gonna choose to believe the story because if I can't trust parts of lore to not be made up its gonna annoy me to no end

[woven coyote]

Grandma is probably the coolest known misterious character in warframe

Her part in bringing the family together

Her narberus stories

Her showing up at waverider and going "so yeah i'm the landlady now and the children stay"

[ashen pulsar]

I loved that part

[woven coyote]

Old people in fiction are badass

[ashen pulsar]

sometimes

sometimes old people just hobble around and groan about kids these days

[hidden cove]

Question about Flare - were they always non-binary, as in before getting infested and spawning Lizzie?

[lean garden]

Looks like it

[hidden cove]

I'm just curious about the circumstances because I could see Flare referring to theirself in non-binary pronouns from seeing Lizzie as a part of them

Even if they did reject Lizzie until talking to us

Kinda like 'we are Venom'

[humble sierra]

Nah I think they were just NB before that

[hidden cove]

Aye good to know

[hidden cove]

Yooo Doom TDA chainsaw shield profile art. That looks awesome

[humble sierra]

Lizzie's more of the "Venom" figure, so if it were the case, she'd refer to themselves as a collective I feel

[hidden cove]

Makes sense

[humble sierra]

Ye all I had to do was watch a trailer for the game and Discord gave it

[hidden cove]

Ive never seen or heard or thought of a chainsaw shield before and it's super hardcore

block attack
rev chainsaw shield
trap enemy sword in the saw teeth and wrench them towards me
strawberry jam

And the fact he Captain Americas it at demons too

[woven coyote]

aoi used they/them for flare in reference to their career as a musician
and even lizzie uses they/them for flare

[hidden cove]

Aye I forgot about that part lmao

[proper barn]

Yes. Lizzie is also a she.

[proper barn]

The people in the hex refer to flare as they even when they don't know about lizzie.

[slow bramble]

Wish we could get some non-binary rep without the extra person though

[sage moat]

counterpoint: its really good plural rep

[slow bramble]

Very much agreed

[sage moat]

like its almost on the level of moon knight in terms of "really cool plural character whose plurality is taken seriously"

[slow bramble]

More reason for a "they them" without an additional persona though

To make them stand out

*both of them stand out

[sage moat]

yes!

when it was just xaku people would always use he or she for them and i thought it was because DE were cowards making it "are they nonbinary or just multiple frames? who knows!" but then flare came out as an explicitly nonbinary character and people still misgender them so i don't think it can be helped actually

[slow bramble]

Thats because both have the "multiple people" excuse

Xaku is pretty good gender fluid rep tho

(I say as someone genderfluid)

[sage moat]

i feel like it doesn't count as rep if they're never explicitly stated to be the thing they're representing

im also genderfluid!

[slow bramble]

SWEET ✋️

Would Equinox count as being Fluid?

[sage moat]

nope, would be cool if they were though

in another timeline where equinox is a more modern frame, i could see it

[slow bramble]

Damn it

But yeah we need more fluid and non binary rep without excuses

Like a human-
Actually, if we had another Tenno character. Straight up a kid from the Zariman being explicitly like "I am a They Them and No I do not count my Frames."

Be nice if there were two, one Masc and one femme, Androgny is great but let's be queer as shit y'know?

This year's pride is beautiful btw

[sage moat]

i 100% agree

[restive river]

I mean Flare is nonbinary and just so happens to also have Lizzie who identifies as she/her

Also like
The people of the origin system don’t seem to even view gender as a binary, or the Drifter doesn’t at least which should extend to the Operator and probably all Tenno
Heck Ballas wanted to even continuity over to Yareli’s body so I doubt the Orokin even viewed gender as a binary

Like while Flare has Lizzie and can be said “oh they’re nonbinary cause they’re 2 people” that’s just incorrect
For Xaku it’s technically correct but they’re also just nonbinary/genderfluid due to their circumstances of being a composite of 3 individuals and their identities

Would def be nice to have some nonbinary individuals outside of the frames ofc but I would argue that Flare does somewhat give us that as they’re an NPC whilst also being the original Temple

Baby steps though unfortunately
At least have Ticker

[sage moat]

semi-related

i really hope we get more tenno npcs at some point. we can't be the only tenno doing important stuff come on now

my half-baked theory of tenno adversaries could be true

[restive river]

I mean. All the other players are technically tenno npcs

[restive river]

I don’t believe any tenno would be adversaries to us and the tenno cause tbh

Like the most we got was Rell and he was outcasted by the tenno
All the tenno were taught the same things and while differing opinions can happen I do think all the tenno see the larger picture of things and do their best to keep peace same as us

Or rather keeping the balance

Tenno deserters aren’t impossible just very unlikely

[sage moat]

if we get the tenno adversaries my theory is that itll be a civil war caused by wally. easy to turn on your friends when the source of that power that brought you together is telling you to

[restive river]

Kinda helps we all went up against the greatest evil in the origin system :p

[restive river]

I mean that’s not really us then that’s more so just him

[sage moat]

wait, your tag---

[restive river]

And any who give into him we can just help

[sage moat]

https://tenor.com/view/waah-waa-sad-wah-waaah-gif-25875771

[restive river]

Perish

It’s less recognizable now

I only have the tag cause I like the comic
Not the community

[sage moat]

BRIEF aside,

its one of those things where its like "wow these characters are really fun. i sure wish they were in a work of fiction that was good"

[restive river]

I mean the comic is good, dated at times ofc but it is good

[sage moat]

just like soul eater
now that im done being an incendiary snob,

[restive river]

Tbh there are too many characters and some just
Are just pointless lmao

[tall echo]

They are, by definition, not npcs

[restive river]

From my perspective I cannot play as you so you’re an npc

[sage moat]

this makes the protoframes PCs

[tall echo]

That's not what npc means

[restive river]

And Khal
And Teshin
And the Courtiers
Really anything we can use transference on

[restive river]

Non-playable character
From my perspective are you playable?

[tall echo]

You just want to murder some poor tenno don't you

[restive river]

We can’t even die (easily)

[tall echo]

Non-player character

[restive river]

I’ve always heard playable not player

[swift steppe]

is the underground fishmarket canon

[tall echo]

No

[restive river]

Yeah

[swift steppe]

uh

[tall echo]

But it should be

[tall echo]

I've only heard player in both languages I know

My sources outnumber yours >:3

[sage moat]

actually my preferences for adversaries goes in order of Corrupted Archons -> Myrmidons -> Whatever They Do For Murmur i dont care much about having tenno as adversaries

we kinda already have that. that's my theory as to what the acolytes are, anyway

[restive river]

I’m deleting your glass jar

[tall echo]

I'm not stored like that loser nihil

[sage moat]

oh thank goodness im getting the minvel good ending

[swift steppe]

who tf is myrmidons

ugly name

[restive river]

Not a who, a what

[swift steppe]

oh sorry

what are myrmidons

[restive river]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/leverian-ivara/

Scary orokin-made monster that shoots jade light beams

[swift steppe]

what does preternatural mean

and why do myrmidon not exist anymore

[restive river]

Beyond what is natural basically

And probably cause they didn’t make good soldiers, just good monsters

Ballas’ Warframes are warriors, not monsters
Not til Grendel at least

[swift steppe]

LMAO

[restive river]

I mean
That’s what he says in the prime trailer iirc

His frames were criticized for being to genteel (polite, refined) so he made Grendel, a monster

Fun fact, Grendel came out on Halloween along with Kuva liches
If I’m remembering that day enough at least

[proper barn]

It wasn't a real person it was like some construct the Orokin made as a test.

[restive river]

I remember when we thought Bombastine was one

We have yet to ever see one

Which tbh not everything does need to be seen
Like what Tuvul summoned

[swift steppe]

oh okay

[swift steppe]

lol

[swift steppe]

wdym

[restive river]

Voruna’s Leverian

If you haven’t go experience all of the leverians

They are fantastic

[swift steppe]

urgh okay

at least drusus talks in them i dont need to read

[restive river]

Lmao

If you’ve maxed that frame you can get their prex card in there btw

Though they’re hidden so
Goodluck :)

[swift steppe]

i did them all already

no thats not true im still missing ash

and styanax

[restive river]

Go get em

[swift steppe]

i dont have them lol

[restive river]

Rip

Also Baro can bring items from the leverians, which is cool tbh

[swift steppe]

im waiting for circuit ash and styanax wellllllllllllllllllll im lazy but ill farm him eventually

[restive river]

Javi’s scrawlings
Mop bucket prime
Assassin head gem
Etc etc

[swift steppe]

uhm

[tall echo]

Yeah you're gonna have to wait a couple years for styanax to enter the circuit

[swift steppe]

i buy everything i dont have from baro anyways

[swift steppe]

its okay i like kahl missions

ill farm him eventually

[restive river]

Can’t buy those anywhere else lol

[swift steppe]

oh okay

is 7mil enough for baro or not please im actually stressed rn

[restive river]

Baro has plenty of exclusives

[restive river]

Credits or ducats

[swift steppe]

credits

im not that rich in ducats lol

[restive river]

Yes for credits

[swift steppe]

nice thanks

[restive river]

You will def need more ducats
Always will need more ducats

[tall echo]

Unless you want >7 pedestals

[restive river]

If you got the tennocon pass you should def get more

[restive river]

TRUE

[swift steppe]

i got 35 ducats but i got plenty of primes i didnt give to the ducats machine or whatever it is

[swift steppe]

i dont im poor

[tall echo]

L

[restive river]

Then don’t worry too much

[swift steppe]

😦

[tall echo]

(I'm also poor but I needed the cape)

[restive river]

Def should get more when you can ofc

Just run relics and you’ll be fine :)

[swift steppe]

yeah i need to do that ive been slacking off too much

is that even a word

[tall echo]

Yes

A pokemon is even named after it

[sage moat]

youll need around 30k ducats to get everything from baro. and an unholy amount of creds.
im just buying the most commonly used prime mods and praying i don't go completely bankrupt

[humble sierra]

30k is probably too little

I think it's closer to 75k

[pallid spoke]

You're gonna need more than a few million credits for that if you don't want to go bankrupt.

[regal torrent]

In the new war, doesn't it say something about us needing necramechs because it's too hot for our Warframe?

But then we fight ballsack in front of the actual sun?

[graceful swan]

Can't find a single line saying that

It’s the mech that fails due to the environment in the quest requiring you to use your frame

[regal torrent]

ok thats my bad memory then why do we even need a necramech

[graceful swan]

Orphix fields on the way there most likely as they can kick you out of your frame

[feral cape]

We also fight inside praghasa who's likely shielding us

[chrome frost]

hmm so, judging by the fact that most warframes of from the 1st gen were autonomous before rhino went on a rampage and the fact that temple (flare) supposedly acted on their own during the day of naga drums what are the chances that protoframes will remain themselves but simply mutate into the warframes we have today?

Or an even better theory what if Protoframes are what Helminth did to people infected by it originally except mutilating their faces/features to the point where the Orokin (or may be just Balless) decided to cover them up so they would look....more presentable? For instance we can clearly see umbra having actual human features underneath the helmet

[tall echo]

Extremely low unless they all find some comet to hide in

[chrome frost]

i didnt mean that theyll remain alive

[tall echo]

It is not, the transformation is always controlled

[chrome frost]

i meant that theyll keep their free will

[tall echo]

They transform eventually, albrecht says that in the lab notes fragments

[chrome frost]

yes but what im trying to say is that they might remain autonomous if he transformed them using the same method albeit altered as the method used when creating the first gen of frames

[tall echo]

Well. Yes. All warframes are autonomous

[chrome frost]

...nuh uh 2nd gen was changed

[tall echo]

They're mostly inert

[chrome frost]

the 2nd gen is unable to act without a pilot/the tenno controlling them as far as i know

[tall echo]

Not due to different creation, mind, but due to the tenno

[tall echo]

Second dream quest

Jade and stalker are 2nd gen yet both are autonomous

[chrome frost]

i dont know about stalker but jade isnt autonomous per se

she had to put her tenno into sleep (or coma) to be able to control herself

[tall echo]

She acted on her own, her tenno was sleeping

[chrome frost]

yes but without a tenno she couldnt move

[tall echo]

Says who

[chrome frost]

a moment please checking my lore

[feral cape]

2nd gen Warframes need tenno to act due to the transference bolt limiting them

[tall echo]

(With some exceptions)

[chrome frost]

ok i couldnt find [CLEM} on jade and sorren (stalker)

other than the fact that they were turned into frames as a punishment by ballas

[sage stratus]

What about Lizzie? Wouldn’t she be helpful in allowing Flare to stay in control

[tall echo]

Controlled as in it doesn't happen without a person overseeing it

[sage stratus]

Oh

[modern steppe]

Lizzie is a result from Flare and Flare is pretty traumatized from having her being essentially a reminder of getting their band killed

[sage stratus]

Have u not gone thru all the protoframe chats?

[humble sierra]

Flare is still a controlled transformation, Entrati oversaw it

They would always end up looking like Temple because of the Temple serum. Lizzie is probably an anomaly though

[modern steppe]

Lizzie is practically an anomaly, since her connection is intrinsic to Flare

[whole stone]

Idk if this technically fits here but it feels more accurate than general chat. Is Drusus a cephalon?

[modern steppe]

Very likely he is

[tall echo]

Yes

[humble sierra]

He was revealed to be one with Dante Unbound, I think

[tall echo]

Yes

[past halo]

Does Baro's gacha box technically have the same eternalism crap void relics run on

[graceful swan]

Relics aren’t Eternalism

Relics also existed before Eternalism

[tall echo]

Relics are retroactively eternalism technically

[graceful swan]

Relics aren’t accessing other timelines

[past halo]

Then what do relics run on

[lean garden]

"Maybe maybe not"

Its running on "we aint know whats in it save for maybe these things, crack it and find out"

[past halo]

Or in other words: "The desired object is in this relic. The desired object is not in this relic." What do we call this process? Eternalism

[graceful swan]

Not quite
You only access one not the other one

You don’t see 2 items in the relic you only see 1 which is the correct one

[lean garden]

Thats uh, not eternalism tho

Like thats the prerequisite conditions for it, but its not it

[tall echo]

Relics run on "it's anything and everything all of the time until you crack it"

[graceful swan]

At which point it is only 1

[lean garden]

Like eternalism comes into play when the thing you didnt get is what a different you got on a different split timeline

[modern steppe]

how relics work is more along the lines of Schrodingers Cat than anything else

[modern steppe]

which fits this description more than Eternalism does

[plush walrus]

Everyone mentioned if I complete the second dream but what about the first dream bru

[graceful swan]

Awakening

[modest garnet]

The first dream is when the Warframes first woke up at the beginning of the game

[plush walrus]

So to play the game we have to be in the first dream....hmm so this is like Bloodborne vibe... Nice

🤔

[stiff fable]

Point of order, "second generation" Warframes are Warframes made without human subject bodies. Any Warframe made from a person is "original generation".

[tall echo]

That's not the distinction

[stiff fable]

It actually is

[tall echo]

The distinction is pre-tenno vs post-tenno

[restive river]

^^

[graceful swan]

Some gen 1s even got Operators

[restive river]

Jade(?$

Well most gen 1 frames were destroyed, they made the frames again when they has the tenno as a solition

[tall echo]

Jorren were transformed fairly late afaik

[restive river]

Yeah

And they didn’t start out with operators

[graceful swan]

So just Kullervo?

[restive river]

Heck Stalker seems to just not have one

Kullervo yeah

He didn’t get one but he’s a gen 1 that saw the tenno iirc

[graceful swan]

He is a survivor of the purge because Ballas keeps thinking throwing everything in the Void kills it

[sage moat]

In ballas's defense (something I never wanna say again) we and lotus were the first things that DIDNT work on

[normal mountain]

Someone defending Ballas?
must be a sign of the apocalypse

[strange turtle]

And I looked, and beheld a skeletal horse; and her name that sat upon it was Dagath

[graceful swan]

Didn't work on Kullervo either

[sage moat]

He should've thought the whole "throwing the void Demon into the void" part through more but he was a member of the vain faith is it all too shocking he thought of a cool one liner and wanted to do it even if it was stupid

[sage moat]

He THOUGHT it did! Reasonably, it should've!

[graceful swan]

Didn't work on Teshin either

[sage moat]

Ballas had no way of predicting duviri

Reasonably, it should've! How was balls supposed to know that one of the tenno's alternate void self created a timeloop fairy tale world

[graceful swan]

The void can heal as well as harm

Void hurt Teshin
Void heal Teshin
Void also kill Teshin
Void also revive Teshin

[sly ibex]

Ballas knew putting us in the Void wouldn't kill us, which is why he had the line of not being able to kill the devil, but sending it back to hell.

As for Teshin, he wasn't dead, but on death's door when Erra cracked his helmet. He fell into Duviri and... Shoot, can't remember which, but one of the Orowyrms found him and took care of him until he recovered.

Not Mathila, was it...

[tall echo]

It was mathila

[tall echo]

He was pretty much dead

[sly ibex]

But he wasn't dead. Just very close to dying.

At least according to Mathila found with him I think lol

https://tenor.com/view/miracle-max-princess-bride-mostly-dead-all-dead-oygente-gif-12754873

Freaking love that movie. XD

[ashen pulsar]

It would’ve taken a miracle for him to survive…

[woven coyote]

Well he did survive long enough to land in duviri and for someone to heal him

[tall echo]

I'm guessing teshin was like moments away from dying when he entered(fell into) the portal

[woven coyote]

Someone needed to "nurse him back to health" so i think it was a bit longer than just getting into the portal

[tall echo]

I can not comprehend that sentence for some reason

[graceful swan]

One was the monk Teshin, who fell from the sky into the lake on the island we now call Hermit's Landing. Seemingly lifeless, he was dragged ashore by Mathila who nursed his return to health. I have never known a constitution to match his; yet unlike us, he has… deteriorated… with the passing of time.

[woven coyote]

Unless we assume teshin landed right in front of whoever healed him, and that person had whatever was needed to do so on hand

He probably had longer than "a few moments away from dying" is what i am trying to convey

[tall echo]

Why didn't they call kullervo's island "betrayer's landing" or smth, they seem to like that naming theme

[normal mountain]

Probably because (if I'm remembering this particular tidbit right, and not just pulling it out of 'where the sun don't shine'), Kullervo literally created that island through CE.
So, technically speaking, he never landed there

[graceful swan]

He didn't land on an island he created one with emotions

[normal mountain]

Oh yay, I didn't just make that up!

[vale wind]

Have people considered how monstrous Orokin Era grineer were?
Like
Gotva Prime,
bodies that to quote Kavalero “Could Loose an arm and keep working”

• Orokin Era armour.

[graceful swan]

Also, Clone Rot wasn't really an issue

[stiff fable]

thank you for posting that so I didn't have to

[restive river]

I mean current Grineer are pretty wild too
But both are paper compared to the tenno

[stiff fable]

well we also aren't fighting the main Grineer/Corpus troops

[sly ibex]

We've fought the most elite of both already, though.

[stiff fable]

Not exactly

[sly ibex]

Between Liches and Sisters, plus Kuva Grineer and... I can't remember the Corpus equivalent, but we've fought the best they have to offer.

[stiff fable]

Tenno missions fall into two categories, the "weakly defended outposts that the factions can't give up", and the "do or die missions we run to preserve the factional balance"

[graceful swan]

Kuva guardians we just daze them then hurt them very much

[stiff fable]

The Grineer and Corpus both have control over the resources of entire planets, so if it ever came to a throwdown fight between Tenno and one of the major factions, we'd lose

[restive river]

Eximus units are closer to the elite units iirc
Which we see more in sp cause we let them know we’re coming

[sly ibex]

I don't think we would. We've already entirely toppled the Orokin and Sentients (twice for both now), who were way more impressive than either of these current factions.

[stiff fable]

ehhhhhhhhhh

See, the problem is that we got the Orokin all at once in a decapitation strike

99.9% of them all in one room, and we killed most of them before they could react

And the Sentients faked losing so they could return the favor

Like, hell, Ballas probably was the one to suggest the "one big party" in the first place

specifically so the triple cross would be possible

[sly ibex]

Right now, I just want to permanently end Nihil lol

[stiff fable]

oh yes please

[woven coyote]

Nah leave him in the fish bowl

[sly ibex]

The only living Orokin should be the Entrati (who I want to restore to proper bodies), and I also want to get rid of Albrecht honestly lol

[woven coyote]

Ohh we should put a radio besides him that fibonacci can talk through