lore-discussion

[tall echo]

Khora originated as spider

[restive river]

Khora isn’t a cat lmao

[swift steppe]

but she got a cat

[restive river]

But she isn’t one

[swift steppe]

so that counts in my book

cat related it counts

[tall echo]

Your book is extremely bad

[swift steppe]

i never said it was a good book man

[restive river]

Voruna is dog/wolfframe cause she is a dog/wolf not cause she had dogs/wolves

[swift steppe]

okay youre right my book is very bad im gonna throw it in the trash

[restive river]

Khora and Inaros are more than their cats is the thing

[swift steppe]

so whos cat frame

[restive river]

With Inaros it came much much later
With Khora it’s just one piece of her kit

[tall echo]

The cats on inaros barely even exist

[restive river]

Valkyr.

[tall echo]

Valkyr

[swift steppe]

she dont look like a cat

[restive river]

Valkyr has been catframe before khora ever existed

[swift steppe]

she dont even have a tail bruh

L cat

[tall echo]

Most skins do

[restive river]

She does?

[blissful merlin]

She acts like one lmao

[swift steppe]

but why her original skin dont have a tail?

[restive river]

Her prime and her skin that depicts her before Alad gives her a tail

Also not all cats have tails

[tall echo]

Also nobody uses valkyr without the bastet helmet let's be honest

[swift steppe]

oh

[tall echo]

Not counting the people using other cat-like tennogen helmets

[swift steppe]

there is 2 valkyr skin w tails

okay anyways what animal is missing then

[tall echo]

Valkyr behaves exactly like a cat:
Screams
Refuses to stay still
Scratches everything

[tall echo]

Bear?

[swift steppe]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

WAIT

deer frame when? bear frame when?

[tall echo]

Beer frame when

[swift steppe]

TRUE

[restive river]

Both of which are canon

[tall echo]

The mystical bud knight

[swift steppe]

WAIT

[tall echo]

Friend of pepsiman?

[swift steppe]

BEAVER FRAME WHEN!?!?!?!?!?!?

i want beaver frame

[tall echo]

Dam. Good idea

[swift steppe]

I WANT BEAVER FRAME

FOR THE TRUE CANADIANS

[tall echo]

I currently have exactly the same facial expression as my pfp

[swift steppe]

AND THEY NEED TO GIVE IT A SKIN WITH This

IM COOKING RIGHT NOW

[tall echo]

Beavers when they hear running water

[swift steppe]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS

WE NEED BEAVER FRAME OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG i want beaver frame i need it

[tall echo]

Can't demand axolotl frame bc yareli prime is extremely axolotl-y

[swift steppe]

yeah true

girl

we need void frame

[tall echo]

...War frame

[swift steppe]

like the frame is just a black square

thats the frame

void frame

[tall echo]

The last frame absolutely has to be a literal war frame

Bombs, missiles, etc

[swift steppe]

omg youre cooking

OMG WAIT

[tall echo]

Call it arsenal

[swift steppe]

we need a phone frame

LKMAO

[tall echo]

I still think my liquid metal frame idea could work

Weird lore we talkin here

[swift steppe]

omg

makeup frame when

[swift steppe]

OMG WAIT

LMAOOOOOOOOOOO

THATS YOUR FRAME

[tall echo]

Zhat

Could work for one of the abilities

Genuinely

[swift steppe]

when it dies it just becomes that

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[tall echo]

That is also already part of the concept

[swift steppe]

oh

whats the other 3 then

[brittle siren]

Could be a pure summoner frame

Like in Jojo, an alternative version of Dio have a stand that literally a dinosaur

[swift steppe]

JOJO REFERENCE

[tall echo]

Hydroid undertow but can go through doors, spike armor.... I gotta check for the other abilities

[swift steppe]

crazy frame

[brittle siren]

Could make the frame to be like dinosaur tamer, each ability summon different kind of dinosaur that do dmg or supported

[tall echo]

Oh right essentially nidus stomp but it's a stab with some aoe and then an exalted melee that can use any stance and changes to match the weapon type

[swift steppe]

thats

uhm i dont think DE would ever make a frame like that

[tall echo]

Spaghet

The code would implode

[tall echo]

Ofc it's a very old and very rough concept

[swift steppe]

literally

the code gotta be struggling a lot w oraxia

like bro

[tall echo]

I already simplified the exalted btw, originally the concept had it switch between similar weapon types mid-combo based on unique stances like staff+polearm or sword+scythe

[swift steppe]

do you want the game to disappear from existence or smth

LMAO thats like they would need to make warframe 2 for your thing to work

[tall echo]

I want ✨ Style ✨

[hexed oxide]

anyone else seen that game concept ? the one with spider legs on back that crawled on walls yet kept the character stable ?

like, feet pointed to ground rather than wall ? what if oraxia's like that ?

[swift steppe]

wtf are you talking about bro

[tall echo]

Man I'm so excited for isleweaver

[swift steppe]

same

[hexed oxide]

it was a concept video i saw a long as hell time ago, that oraxia teaser during the dev stream unlocked it like a core memory lol

[swift steppe]

okay well uh idk

what they showed is only when shes using her 4 i think thats what i understood

[brittle siren]

did we have a devil theme frame yet

[swift steppe]

uh

like demon frame?

[brittle siren]

yeah

[swift steppe]

idk

sevagoth maybe? uh idk

[hexed oxide]

there is no way to see sevagoth as a demon

grendel

he has an oni skin

[swift steppe]

idk man im scared

[proper barn]

Grendel is more gluttony personified.

[fickle thicket]

shadow demon vs vore demon

[swift steppe]

grendel is just hungry bro

[hexed oxide]

gluttony is a sin

[proper barn]

Yes.

[hexed oxide]

demons are sinful

my brain is so big it hurts

[proper barn]

I'm gonna tackle you.

[swift steppe]

sevagoth is a ghost then

[hexed oxide]

pls 👉 👈

[swift steppe]

wtf is sevagoth's theme bruh

[hexed oxide]

reaper and captain

[fickle thicket]

so big and juicy that grendel will eat it

[proper barn]

Stand captain man.

[hexed oxide]

he literally reaps enemies souls to feed his shadow

[proper barn]

Also his Claws/shadow actually is good to use it now.

[swift steppe]

jojo reference again im gonna burst

anyways

[proper barn]

This was one of the first ones.

Khoras animations also count.

[swift steppe]

idk who tf is a jojo fan in DE but i love them with all my soul

[proper barn]

Reb

[swift steppe]

i love her with all my soul

[hexed oxide]

she's a warframe fan in fact. she cosplayed minerva

[swift steppe]

bro

shes the lotus

literally

she IS warframe

anyways

when are we getting TV frame

[fickle thicket]

techrot tv frame
deltarune spamton frame

[hexed oxide]

[techrot chestplate]

[swift steppe]

no guys im asking when are we getting tv frame like literally

the frame is literally a TV

just a big rectangle

im bored

why is darvo a scammer

[brittle siren]

technically, oni is not like the demon from hell, they more like mystical beast

[brittle siren]

Techrot skin Nidus when

[swift steppe]

hes so ugly please

i hate him so much

[brittle siren]

how dare you

banned

[swift steppe]

look at his goofy ahh

why does he look likr that

at least in mutation form or whatever he looks cool

he looks like hes aura farming thats nice and shi

[proper barn]

why haven't you fashioned him at all?

[swift steppe]

bcz i dont play him

[proper barn]

that's fair.

[swift steppe]

hes not modded nor formatted no need to fashion him

[proper barn]

i think he needs a rework/up to date augment.

[swift steppe]

why

[proper barn]

he's very old

and very slow to like build up and isn't great in squads.

[swift steppe]

i see

[hexed oxide]

how strong are the hex ?

physically i mean. i think eleanor mentioned pushing an APC off her ?

[lean garden]

stronger than a human for sure

[hexed oxide]

not really a question of "if" stronger than a human. more like how much stronger

an average human's strength surely pales in comparison

[proper barn]

around the strenght of a warframe

maybe a little less.

[hexed oxide]

then not as strong as i thought ?

yeah warframes can swing around swords like galatine, but need gravimags to be able to wield archguns

[lean garden]

I mean, the hex would always be constrained by the limits of the warframes, so

were you expecting them to be stronger than a warframe or something?

[hexed oxide]

not really, just seems conflicting a bit. let me look for something

[lean garden]

conflicting?

[hexed oxide]

i kind of misremembered/misinterpreted these lines

i thought she was crushed by an APC and pushed it off her. instead she was just ran over then probably got on top of it to rip a hatch open. other than that, there is the tank cutscene where they tilt the machinegun forward

they are able to do that but can't pick up an archgun ?

[lean garden]

archgun heabi

[hexed oxide]

: (

[lean garden]

also like have you tried lifting a barbell from the very tip and swinging it around?

[hexed oxide]

uh

i haven't tried to lift a barbell of any kind.

not built for that kind of inhuman effort

[lean garden]

uuuh imagine this

aint gon be nice

[hexed oxide]

they don't really hold it by the opposite end like that, more like one at the tip the other a bit forward. but yeah i imagine it'd be hard to carry either way

[woven coyote]

Tipping things on hinges is also much easier because some of the weight is on the hinge

[vale sail]

so like what does the Helminth Strain do? like i get conversion process of the skin hardening into sword-like steel and their organs will interlink and hybridized. but does the infected individual also start absorbing technology to form the 3 ingredients described in the blueprints?

[lean garden]

I mean, based on the protoframes, I suspect that some part of it is included in the transformation process somehow

[vale sail]

hm i guess my question is can/does the helminth strain absorb technology like other techrot strains

[lean garden]

well, look at how lizzie was made

helminth infected blood dropped onto guitar, bing bang boom helminth guitar

[vale sail]

hm

i guess it makes senses

[proper barn]

well helminth and techrot.

[vale sail]

is techrot the official virus name?

[proper barn]

the 1999 verison of infested is called the techrot.

[lean garden]

its the bird flu name of the virus thats for sure

the colloquial name that stuck

[vale sail]

i am confused

[proper barn]

about?

[vale sail]

so the name is infested and techrot is a strain?

[proper barn]

well tech rot

is the 1999 verison of infested.

it leads to the current infested but it's really old and like more basic.

[vale sail]

got it so its named infested

also do all infested strains absorb technology? ie electronics and materials

[humble sierra]

The official name is the Testudo Virus. People started calling it Techrot as slang.

[proper barn]

we don't know.

the helminth itself is very odd

cuz it's a "Tamed" verison of infested.

also it can eat tech and stuff cuz you can feed that to the helminth.

[vale sail]

hm i am just trying to figure out the full conversion process for warframes

[proper barn]

okay so they take a person. inject them full of a cocktail of like probably infested like "cells" or well "helminth" cells and then that turns them into the base of a warframe which is seemingly like "sword steel" and like what the people in the sacrifice tablet looks like and then Ballas sculpts them into a shape he wants.

the protos Albrecht is injecting them with samples from a fully complete warframe. @vale sail

[vale sail]

then what are use for the 3 blueprint specific ingredients such as systems, chassis, and neruoptics?

[proper barn]

we are basiclly

making a clone of the warframe.

by taking scans of it.

[strange plinth]

also transforming whole-new warframes to use requires.. not very ethical practices

[proper barn]

Basically we are 3D priting a exact copy of a warframe. Otherwise if where making a warframe the way warframes where originally created we would have to steal people.

@vale sail have you played the sacrifice?

[strange plinth]

yeah. we build them from blueprints to avoid taking people and making them warframes via that process
its also like. way easier
which is known to be.. not pleasant. even w/o the usual stuff the orokin were doing, the hex Did Not have a fun time with their initial transformations

[vale sail]

uh not yet probably i don’t really pay attention to the quest names

[proper barn]

It's the one with umbra

[vale sail]

i don’t have umbra

[strange plinth]

ah that's
part of where that confusion comes from then
highly recommend doing that quest lol

[vale sail]

hm got it so the helminth on base 3d prints while og conversion process just get injected with the helminth strain and did some modifications afterwards.

[strange plinth]

that's the basics yeah

[viscid scroll]

How many infestation strains are we aware of

[strange plinth]

helminth, mutalist, grey, techrot, whatever the emissary was up to
i feel like i'm forgetting another
prolly the basic strain that we see in most infested enemies

[viscid scroll]

How does techrot compare to modern infestation

[brittle siren]

well Techrot is limited to only technology in 1999, and the host usually human only

while current infested has too much stuff to takeover

Gray Strain even able to evolve to the point there is 2 giant worms that can regen their head back

[lean garden]

"Cousins"

[brittle siren]

tbh "ancestor" sound more fitting

[strange plinth]

yeah
our modern strains would prolly be split off of techrot

[brittle siren]

also since beside Coda, Techrot do not exist at all in the present day

they probably died off and go to sleep, until Orokin found them

[graceful swan]

18 Radiation Wars

Modern day Infestation is contained

[heady widget]

Anyone feel like it's a bit forked up that we tell the protoframes we don't really have friends in the solar system. I just think sorry Ordis, sorry Clem, Sorry Khal, Sorry Teshin etc

[misty helm]

Given the infestation of our time it's also referred to as a "techno-organic parasite", it's more than fitting.

[graceful swan]

Ordis is coded to serve

[heady widget]

You got one

[graceful swan]

Teshin well in Drifters case saw him for a literal day or few days at best

Clem, Drifter was in Duviri during the time Operator met Clem

[leaden gorge]

But doesn’t teshin keep his memories in duviri?

[graceful swan]

Anytime you do stuff in Duviri it’s set as doing it before escaping hence the Lotus hand and not actual Void powers

[leaden gorge]

So it more or less just loops the quest?

[vale sail]

yea as i understand it helminth starts as biomass (meaning the infected individuals) and then also assimilates electronics and materials for further conversion into what is known as a warframe.

[graceful swan]

Yeah just 1 spiral instead of multiple though

[tall echo]

Remember, the operator and drifter are essentially different people

[sage moat]

I'm glad the drifter got to meet the hex

[vale sail]

i just thought about it as just the operator can they control just the helminth strain?

[lilac aspen]

More like the Helminth Strain is afraid of the operator

Rather all the Infested is afraid of the Void weirdos

[vale sail]

yea but like i meant like how the operator controls warframe can they also crontrol the helminth

[lilac aspen]

I don’t think they could
Helminth probably had no “self” when it was made
Compared to Frames once having been someone

[vale sail]

i mean all strains have a hive mind

[lilac aspen]

So it’s hard to convince and control Helminth when it’s connected to everything compared to the frames

Where you can focus the connection on the one person to help them

[vale sail]

hm well there is nidus who uses the void energy provided to control their helminth abilities

why couldn’t the operator do the same?

the void powers as described in lore are basically reality warping in nature

[lilac aspen]

Nidus uses his powers to control his powers
He is the infested frame

[dense salmon]

I mean the Drifter doesn't have friends. Not like the Operator, I'm not even sure how the Drifter and Ordis k ow each other, but the Drifter is like entirely exempt from any kind of social interaction in the Origin System upon leaving Duviri

[strange spindle]

They do talk about orids in convos with the hex. They know ordis from the new war when they were using the operator's orbiter as a tent

A friendly servant is not really the same as a real friend though. Not everyone wants to pull an Albrecht with their servants

[tall echo]

Helminth wouldn't allow it

Transference can't control an unwilling creature

[vale sail]

i disagree as helminth is afraid of operator calling them void demon

[tall echo]

That's exactly why

[vale sail]

but when operator leaves second dream they are able to fully use transferance without any assistance from technology. i think the operator could overpower helminth.

[tall echo]

They couldn't even overpower one warframe

If the target doesn't allow it, transference does not work

[humble sierra]

You think the Helminth was the one trying to save the Operator at the end of Second Dream by breaking War? Or was it just specifically your Warframe?

[vale sail]

operator was still a baby user back when they tried transference on excalibur umbra

[tall echo]

Nothing different now

[vale sail]

nah i disagree it’s way different

[vale sail]

i think the warframe

[humble sierra]

They wouldn't be able to control Umbra if they didn't access his memories and calm him

[vale sail]

yes as they were reliant on the pods and not as power at the end of second dream

[tall echo]

Sacrifice is after tnw

[humble sierra]

After War Within

[tall echo]

Yes

[humble sierra]

Not TNW

[tall echo]

I just woke up

[humble sierra]

Fair lmao

[vale sail]

well my point is still that after second dream i think the operator could control helminth

[tall echo]

They could not

Transference relies on permission

[humble sierra]

They probably could if Helminth would let them, which it probably won't because it fears and hates the Void

[vale sail]

thats incorrect

[normal mountain]

If it's so incorrect, then why has the Operator never tried to control Stalker with Transference?

[humble sierra]

Take 1999 and Whispers. The vessels were out of control, it took Loid's memory of Albrecht to soothe them, only to the point they become stationary. At the start of the Hex quest, Drifter tries brute-forcing into Arthur, flashes some important info into his brain, Arthur almost immediately kicks him out. But then they spend the year getting to know each other, and Arthur finally lets Drifter in. Then Drifter is able to control the Vessel, the one based on Arthur, in the future with ease.

[vale sail]

transference takes focus and this isn’t possible mid battle having to fight the others consciousness too. brute force transference wouldn’t work.

[humble sierra]

Isn't that the argument you're making? Brute force transference on the Helminth?

[vale sail]

no i wasn’t

[normal mountain]

Let's go back to what you just said
"Brute force Transference doesn't work"

So if brute force doesn't work, then what does it take?
Permission, perhaps?

[vale sail]

dude you are getting hung up on one part of what i am saying. what i am trying to say the operator could fight and win to control helmith not sucker punch and not expect for them to fight back for control.

[normal mountain]

I fail to see how that isn't "brute force"

[lilac aspen]

Even the Drifter comments about this
Ordis is their “friend” against his own original will

[vale sail]

like arkcadia pointed out the traditional method is to bond but i am thinking of expanding the transference ability

[main crane]

If there's a Tenno who could do that, it would be Rell.

[humble sierra]

I think Rell was able to bind himself to Harrow with transference because he was able to empathize with him

[normal mountain]

Or that Harrow was an empty shell too

Tbh, I don't think we know the state of Rell's warframe

[vale sail]

you are interpreting what i am saying as a one singular mental force to make the control happen while i am referring to a battle/fight.

[normal mountain]

And fighting isn't brute force?

[humble sierra]

And we tried battling Umbra?

[lilac aspen]

Or maybe Harrow understood what Rell was seeing and went
“Yeah I can see why you need to perma possess me.”

[main crane]

Fighting is brute force

"If I can't control you, I'm gonna beat you up until I can control you"

Pretty much what we did with Umbra before we managed to pacify him

[normal mountain]

And Umbra threw us out each time

before we pacified him and bonded with him

[vale sail]

i guess my idea was wrongly worded

[lilac aspen]

Tbh operator had to beat up Umbra to get him to stop moving for a second to actually see what’s wrong

Kinda like holding a patient down to sedate him. He was far too angry to allow transference so we had to physically bonk him multiple times to therapy session him enough to get him to open up.

Otherwise he’d pick up the therapy chair and beat us to death with it.

[humble sierra]

Yep that's definitely true too

[normal mountain]

That's an image!

[humble sierra]

But ultimately we couldn't help Umbra until he let us

[main crane]

Imagine getting beaten up by your patient (I died that time)

[normal mountain]

I mean, if medical dramas are to be believed, stuff like that happens

would totally commission someone to make a comic of that tho

[lilac aspen]

“Tell me how you fee-“

“AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!”

[main crane]

Yeah fair

[vale sail]

i still think its possible for operator to control helminth

[main crane]

It would be funny to see the operator control the entirety of Deimos

Also, the Helminth is connected through time and space. Wouldn't that give the operator extensive brain damage?

[humble sierra]

Yeah Operator probably could control anything that lets them, the crux of the matter is that most things won't

[lilac aspen]

Probably would be somewhat fine
Only slight insanity and madness

[vale sail]

i don’t think so they are void entities

[lilac aspen]

They are void power given people
So they still have a human mind

[normal mountain]

It might put a strain on the faculties tho

[main crane]

Well, the operator became a schizo when he entered Umbra's mind.

"He's gonna kill my... his son"

[lilac aspen]

If they could handle the burden of the entire infestation they would of no diffed one PTSD Umbra

[normal mountain]

I think that was more a side effect of empathizing with Umbra's ptsd than anything else

[vale sail]

eh i disagree as the helminth is a mind hive and would have to do a mental war with it

[main crane]

That burden extends from 1998 before the Hex and to the far future where we live.

[vale sail]

seiges and such

[vale sail]

is it?

[normal mountain]

And probably beyond, considering how the Infestation seems to regard time as a suggestion

[main crane]

Yes. They are connected throughout time and space as confirmed by Lizzy.

[normal mountain]

Ye
Talk to Lizzie, it's wild

[main crane]

I meant Lizzie

[normal mountain]

Eh, so you spelled the name wrong
We knew who you meant

[main crane]

Yeah lol just correcting myself

[normal mountain]

I was typing that too

Gotcha

[vale sail]

eh i think they meant like a regular mind hive

no way it actually crosses space and time

[lilac aspen]

They are so calm at points that it really makes me think that, extremely far in the future, the Infestation had won.

[lilac aspen]

It’s how Drifter got to 1999

Helminth physically spat them out in an Excalibur

Because the other method Drifter tried to use to get to 1999 wasn’t working that well so

Helminth, The GOAT

[normal mountain]

Not only that, Lizzie remembers each and every loop in Hollvania
Even the ones we haven't played

[lilac aspen]

Lizzie sees the timeline where we get GTA 6 in 1999

[vale sail]

nah the writers did not think that far

[normal mountain]

I never understood the obsession with stealing cars in a video game tbh

[normal mountain]

I'm serious
Go chat with Lizzie and Flare in the KIM

[humble sierra]

Sure, they didn't have this planned in 2018, but they didn't need to think beyond the few story updates. This lore is new because the Time Travel stuff is new

[lilac aspen]

GTA Warframe when
Wait

That’s Railjack
We can steal other ships

[normal mountain]

Yeah, stealing crewships is way more fun

[lilac aspen]

GTA Warframe
Tau edition

We steal their ships

[normal mountain]

So we could pilot a Murex...
ngl, I'm tempted

[vale sail]

i will take this as just a theory until its confirmed

[lilac aspen]

[normal mountain]

Okay
I consider this a win

[vale sail]

theroy here means false

[normal mountain]

Actually, hold on
Let me pull up the Kimulacrum

See if I can't find the conversation

[vale sail]

why wouldn’t operator be able to?

[lilac aspen]

Rell is built different
He alone managed to keep Wally from doing anything from the moment we got our powers to the moment of his quest

[normal mountain]

That is one of the lines
There are more iirc, but that's the one that stands out to me the most

[vale sail]

yea isn’t the void abilities in mystical in nature

[vale sail]

that doesn’t really explain anything

[lilac aspen]

Rell had autism
That’s what made him different from the others and what allowed him to hold back Wally

His mind, from Wally’s view, made no sense to it

[vale sail]

i see but couldn’t operator slowly take over helminth?

my b i am just hyper fixated on how cool it would be

[lilac aspen]

Better off having Nidus order Helminth around

[vale sail]

yea but without nidus its impossible huh

[graceful swan]

No, that’s not how it works

[vale sail]

it would have been so cool if operator could

[hollow siren]

The Warframes aren't really direct parts of the Helminth hivemind, especially not the mindless copies fabricated by the Foundry

[restive river]

Iirc Kaya also talks about how the infestation interacts with time

[hollow siren]

Their partial connection to it seems to be part of what drives them insane

[restive river]

I mean not all the copies are mindless, it’s more so a majority are made to be inert, subdued for easier use by the tenno and so they won’t go feral

[hollow siren]

yeah true

[restive river]

We literally recreate Umbra perfectly via the foundry, memories and all
Which we do with every other Warframe too
The Foundry is really good at working with the infestation

[hollow siren]

all the different Helminths are part of the Hivemind as they're purely Helminth mass, but the Warframes are not since the Helminth was developed to "only just" turn those it transforms

[restive river]

Which all idle anims are remnants of the frame’s personality, who they are, it’s all still in there just. Padded down

[hollow siren]

moreso alike to muscle memory than the actual original person in those cases

[restive river]

Eh, I think it’s a bit of both
I believe the foundry is what installs the inert factor into the sapient frames we find (Jade, Kullervo, Dante) meanwhile in Umbra’s case he has a specialized bolt so those instructions are ignored

[hollow siren]

I also feel like the Kuva used when crafting Umbra is there for a reason, like we're somewhat "pulling him back" to us

[restive river]

It’s both muscle memory and who they were peaking through the cracks

[restive river]

He has a specific bolt
Also he isn’t the only frame to be made with Kuva

Garuda would like a word

[hollow siren]

No, but he's still a special case

[lean garden]

Lizzie right there is specifically making direct reference to remembering loops

[restive river]

Oh for sure, I just doubt it’s entirely the Kuva there

Since other frames are also made with Kuva
His bolt is what makes him special

[lean garden]

the thing about that is that other warframes also have kuva in their BPs... and some of them aint got lore

[restive river]

@lean garden do you remember what Kaya says about the techrot in other timelines?

[lean garden]

I havent played enough ETA for that, I wonder if we got the transcripts up

[hollow siren]

for Garuda it's likely just cause Kuva is "the old blood" so of course the blood frame would use it, and for Harrow it could facilitate his connection to Void and also thematically fit with how he flagellates himself

[restive river]

I couldn’t find them

[restive river]

Doesn’t really change the fact that it’s the bolt that makes Umbra special

[lean garden]

thats the thing tho, they had it and it didnt make them autonomous, so its not the deciding factor yknow?

[lean garden]

Jesus its barebones, and she's got so many juicy lines

like the tape analogy, techrot and infestation being cousins etc

[restive river]

I know right!?

[hollow siren]

I'm not saying it's just that, just saying it could be a part of it in his case

[restive river]

Yeah if anything it could be in conjunction with the special bolt
But also like
It seems to be the bolt is more so the factor as it’s high emotions or high drive that causes a frame to retain sapience, not the presence of kuva

[chrome frost]

ive done some more thinking and realized a rather interesting thing, the Cavia have been exposed to the void and the indifference head on without any protection....and their bodies still had left over void "exposure" on them which caused their deaths (which were reversed by the drifter shortly after). Whats most interesting to me is that most if not all creatures who were exposed to the void without any protection have died and yet we remained alive. By we i mean the drifter. But when a DEAD creature is exposed to the void it somehow comes back to life, for instance Teshin who has a visible crack on his head. This leads me to think that my theory that the void doesn't just magic stuff into existence but rather feeds off of the concepts be it physical (dead body brought back to be the person it once used to be or an orokin construct) or the ones with no physical body (thoughts, emotions, memories for instance duviri) and recreates them within itself via specter particles

....although that sounds more like ramblings of an insane man now that i think about it

[lean garden]

keep in mind that the Void has had expeditions into it, although the measure of what is counted as "protected" isnt quite determined

we know that the iso vaults were created so the explorers could readjust to reality

[restive river]

It’s also just
Unknown if Teshin was actually dead or not

[lean garden]

Sometimes homie can just thug it out

[restive river]

Erra does not have good track experience with killing Dax :p

[lean garden]

some how 0 for 2 for named dax

but thats not including all the other dax he likely killed on lua

[restive river]

If anyone can it’s Teshin too
Plus it’s specifically Mathila that nursed him back to health

[vale sail]

thats what i was trying to say that the operator could control the helminth strain because it feeds on physical or non physical even though i didnt actually say that

[restive river]

The infestation only feeds on the physical

The void creates when it interacts with the metaphysical (emotions, concepts, etc)

[chrome frost]

...i believe youre misunderstanding how the helminth works...it is scared of the operator because it cant comprehend it

the void is what the infested fear

they cant consume it

they cant assimilate it

yet it can control them and that scares it

[restive river]

If anything it fears the Operator because of what they have, a piece of Wally, a thing it cannot share it’s gift with.

The thing is
The void itself isn’t. Anything, it just is
Like an ocean

But Wally? He’s a void entity, he has thought, he can directly do things and the infestation can’t really touch him

[vale sail]

but the void attuned can conjure abilities to use right? isn’t that basically reality bending

[restive river]

It’s theorized conceptual embodiment may explain some abilities but it may mostly be orokin tech powered by the void

Like Warframes are human-infested hybrids powered by the heart of deimos
They have the void flowing through them to power them, to keep them going

[vale sail]

although the teno use transference and what i am basically saying use brute force like communicoshua said now i realize

[restive river]

Anyone can use transference

Difference is
We don’t need tech to use it post war within

[ashen pulsar]

Pretty sure he’s just… the void entity

A physical manifestation of the void

[restive river]

Ballas uses transference on Umbra
Sylvana used it on a whole forest
Albrecht may have used it on the proto frames, specifically Arthur to tell him where to go

[vale sail]

well not powered but use as a the main source because it isn’t wasnt originally used primarily on teno’s power

[restive river]

Not really stated anywhere, that’s just a fan theory

He’s a void entity, not the void entity

[restive river]

?
Warframes have always been powered by the void, even before the tenno

The tenno have nothing to do with the frame’s power source other than both being void-based

[vale sail]

quinn even says they can revive because they use the teno power

[restive river]

Source?

[chrome frost]

no more like an unfinished imprint of Entrati who wasnt finished and ended up being an overexaggerated version of his main personality trait: indifference

[restive river]

Albrecht stepped into the void seeing himself as a void and the void did what it does with emotions
Makes them into a thing

[vale sail]

let me get it

[ashen pulsar]

Yeah. The void’s attempt at a mirror of what it saw from entrati’s mind.

[restive river]

Heck the void has energy likely because Albrecht wanted that to be the case

The void doesn’t do anything on it’s own, it can’t
It requires concepts and emotions to make anything and even then, it doesn’t make things for itself

[ashen pulsar]

He polluted the void with his mind

[restive river]

That is something you could say sure

Without him it would have stayed a nothing

[ashen pulsar]

He filled this emptiness with thoughts, emotions

[restive river]

He didn’t add anything, it looked at him and made it real

[restive river]

Not on purpose?

[ashen pulsar]

Yeah

Just his existence

[restive river]

Like Albrecht is an awful person but we can’t really blame him for what happened with his first void trip

[hollow siren]

"Oh we drew light, yes, but from a very different source. I wonder, do you even know just how brightly you shine?"

[restive river]

The void was an inert nothing, no way to know it’d make energy, a being born of his emotions

[ashen pulsar]

Sorta like a stamp on a blank sheet of paper in a way lol

[chrome frost]

yet also got scarred in the process which either:
A) was caused by him wanting there to be energy thus when there was energy it hurt him
B)the void taking a bit of him to create what he had in his head as well as to attempt to create him but different (think how the thing from "The thing" did it with its victims)

[restive river]

Ok I don’t see how either of those are the tenno’s ability to revive?

[hollow siren]

There's a fun narrative parallel in that between Albrecht's Void trip and what Fibonacci did during the Cavia's trip

[hollow siren]

The Holdfasts' ability to revive

[chrome frost]

i think theyre referring to the tenno's void connection being the main reason they not only came back as ghosts but also managed to resist wally's own "light"

[restive river]

Like the thing about the holdfasts is they are hungry void entities, they need to feed and a majority of the ghost crew fed off of Wally’s finger, Wally’s light
But we come along with our piece of Wally that we have made our own and by existing the Holdfasts can feed off us instead, avoiding the fate of the others.
We aren’t reviving them from death, we’re keeping them from becoming angels

[vale sail]

yea the teno use oro to revive

[hollow siren]

Oro has been stated by DE to not be a relevant concept

[vale sail]

oh really?

[chrome frost]

the hell is Oro?

[hollow siren]

Like they've explicitly told people to let go of it

[restive river]

Oro is unknown to even exist

[hollow siren]

Thing mentioned during Conclave

[restive river]

Albrecht mentioned it and basically said “nah that’s not real my cat has a personality”

[restive river]

It was only mentioned fairly recently to basically go “nah”

[chrome frost]

ah yes...conclave the dead part of the warframe as a game, lost to the deep void

[restive river]

The tenno revive through their piece of Wally if anything, it’s hard to kill a tenno directly
Only time any tenno has died is old age and blowing their frame up

Which
If I had to wager the latter was brain-death

So much pain from existing to not existing that they went brain dead

[hollow siren]

the only actual Tenno deaths we've seen are them willingly dying themselves, not someone else killing them

[restive river]

Much better way of putting it, thank you

[hollow siren]

so ig it's more accurate to call them unkillable rather than immortal

[ashen pulsar]

“Back to his laboratory outside of the Void, he sensed his flesh lacerated by the broken glass. No longer having his voice or sight, he cut his hand with a broken seriglass shard, and with his own blood wrote for his daughter to close the wall, as he sensed the other was there, reaching out. His daughter complied, deactivating the gate while severing one or multiple of the Void entity's fingers in the process.”

[vale sail]

that being the heart of deimos right?

[ashen pulsar]

This is just the wiki I’m quoting but

[restive river]

Yes, the heart has always powered frames and all void tech

[hollow siren]

the Heart basically acts like a conduit to amplify Void energy for the Void tech to effectively work in Reality

since Void energy is scarce, unstable and dangerous to store just on-demand

[restive river]

Iirc it makes a big bubble around the system but I don’t recall the specifics

[hollow siren]

it's essentially a wifi-extender

[restive river]

The heart is like a transmitter sending out the void via bluetooth to all the tech that needs it

[hollow siren]

with the actual router being the Void

[chrome frost]

hmm this causes me to think that void took the concept of speech and sight from him and used it to recreate him in a form of the indifference. Think like how a certain lego set might lack a part and you steal that part from someone else to finish your own.

[vale sail]

then when zarimo incident happened the childen was offered a deal by wally and are now able to use the void and create their own energy reserves after accepting it

[graceful swan]

Bathes the system in a void halo Drifter says

[restive river]

No?
When the heart is damaged during the quest our frame suffers, the tenno do not power the frames themselves.

[restive river]

Yesss thank you

[hollow siren]

tbf that takes place before The War Within

[ashen pulsar]

Yep exactly

[restive river]

It can also take place after

[tall echo]

Ah yes, the zarimo, my favorite warship

[restive river]

I love the zarimo

[silk atlas]

Not with how DE set up the quest order with the Junctions now it can't 😔

[hollow siren]

it is a required main quest set before even the second dream, only way to do it after is having done the aforementioned quests before HoD's release

[ashen pulsar]

It was taking his thoughts and memories to build him and his life, including the laboratory.

[restive river]

Dang :/

[chrome frost]

so its B void is basically taking concepts from real creatures in an attempt to make its own camera slowly shifts to a pyramid of carcasses in entrati's lab

[vale sail]

yea the damage messed them up theoretically the teno could fix this with their own energy reserves

[hollow siren]

we meet Tyl Regor for Tyana Pass long before we do his Assassination now

[hollow siren]

after their powers are fully remembered during The War Within, yes

[restive river]

From what I recall when it originally launched you could just play it after and if you played it before, which you now must, there’s a specific quote from the family about how it’s too soon to basically tell us about being the operator

[vale sail]

ye thats what i am saying

[silk atlas]

There's now actually a mechanic that's not available now because of it. The line where Mother or whoever says the Tenno isn't ready to pilot the Necramech is skipped if you have TSD completed, but now you can't do that

[hollow siren]

yeah

[restive river]

That’s a big assumption tbh

[vale sail]

its not a assumption its a real possibility

[restive river]

No
It’s an assumption

[hollow siren]

idek what you're saying tbh

[restive river]

You’re assuming the tenno can power their frames separate from the heart.

[vale sail]

both teno and warframes use the void correct?

[restive river]

Is it possible? Maybe, probably but still an assumption

[chrome frost]

if the void is closed off the tenno will cease to exist due to the fact of them themselves being void constructs

[restive river]

The tenno have a piece of the void entity known as the man in the wall
The Warframes are void powered

[graceful swan]

No they won’t

[restive river]

They’re not full void constructs like the holdfasts tho

[hollow siren]

the Warframes themselves do not have it innately, if they do it's either from their Operator or via the cybernetic augmentations that most frames have

[graceful swan]

We aren’t Void constructs but humans with Void powers

[restive river]

The tenno are humans WITH a piece of Wally, they have void-saturated DNA, they are human+

[hollow siren]

the Holdfasts and Tenno are vastly different beings

Yonta comments on how the Tenno are "much more fascinating" than her and the Holdfasts

[lilac aspen]

Tenno are people with Void powers
We are not constructs of Void like just about every other creature that comes from the Void

[restive river]

The Tenno were never conceptually embodied, just given a piece of a void entity
The rest of the void entities are born directly from the void and are made of it

[vale sail]

yea two different things still use the void right

[restive river]

Like we are pretty solidly still human

[tall echo]

They have it sorta half innately and are powered by the heart

[restive river]

Yeah sure
You’re still assuming we could do it, like I said it’s possible but still, presently, an assumption.

[hollow siren]

Considering the Helminth is "a hybrid", likely of Infestation and of Orokin Void-tech, yeah true

[restive river]

Unknown tbh

I don’t think we know enough about the process of a frame being made to claim the helminth is half void-tech

[vale sail]

its only a assumption if there is no proof

[lilac aspen]

Helminth is just based

That’s how it does what it does

[restive river]

And there is no proof?

[vale sail]

there is proof

[chrome frost]

so ok im a bit confused here...whats the difference between a void construct thats essentially holding a never ending "light" (bit of wally) and a construct that has no light thus is unable to fully form a physical form?

[restive river]

Proof you have yet to show?

[hollow siren]

Holdfasts were formed from Conceptual Embodiment and the memories of the dead Zariman crew. The Tenno are humans who were infused with Void by The Indifference

[restive river]

The tenno are humans with a piece of wally
The holdfasts and every other void entity are born from and are made of the void directly
One is saturated in void
The other is made of void

[lilac aspen]

The Tenno are Something that needs no one to exist
The constructs are something that needs someone to exist

[hollow siren]

the actual human crew members of the zariman which the Holdfasts embody died

then later on the Holdfasts were formed from the Void

[lilac aspen]

As the Tenno are living flesh imbued with Wally power

The Holdfast are dead, “ghosts” effectively

[silk atlas]

The Holdfasts are, to be very reductive, Void ghosts haunting the Zariman.

[restive river]

We simply “hold” a piece of Wally

[hollow siren]

a sponge filled with water vs. an ice cube

[restive river]

Perfect analogy tbh

[ashen pulsar]

Sorta but the scars were from the glass if that’s what you were saying

[chrome frost]

ok but still...i have a question regarding that, all we asked from wally is to "keep them safe" in no way do i remember us saying anything about keeping anyone alive. It might be just an assumption cuz theres no real proof but the fact that the tenno remain alive for such long periods of time, are able to shoot lazer beams out of their hands and can split themselves into a thousand void projections makes it hard for me to believe that theyre still just humans holding a piece of wally in them

[restive river]

Well that is what they are :p

[silk atlas]

"split themselves into a thousand void projecitons" huh?

[restive river]

The Tenno, despite their abilities (which they only have because of their piece of Wally), are still human.

[chrome frost]

Chains of harrow

[silk atlas]

And the Tenno were in cryosleep for most of that time anyway.

[tall echo]

They can't "split into a thousand void projections" tho

[restive river]

What?

[hollow siren]

they're referring to Rell's fragments

[chrome frost]

during the chains of harrow rell summons shadowy critters to fight us at some point

[tall echo]

Ah the ones that weren't rell?

[restive river]

So
Conceptual embodiments or Wally mucking with us then

[tall echo]

The hostile actions weren't rell

[restive river]

From what I recall those weren’t him and if they were they still weren’t directly him

[hollow siren]

only one is actually Rell, the rest are remnants of Red Veil fanatics

[restive river]

Also this

Like Wally was getting through

Everyone assumes the rap tap tap is Rell when that too was Wally
Wally even speaks to us through Rell
He takes control of the fanatics

[hollow siren]

A big part of Rell's case is also that he fully left his body to permanently reside in Harrow

[chrome frost]

oh...

[restive river]

Rell was an ally to us, he saw the bigger picture and the threat that was Wally
Not us

[hollow siren]

Palladino even says "That's not Rell"

[restive river]

Also on the Tenno being humans

7. THE ZARIMAN

** SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT **

The Tenno has discovered the truth of their identity. They are a human child, one of many kept within cryopods on Lua in the Reservoir.

These children were passengers on the Zariman Ten-Zero, the colony ship bound for Tau and lost to the Void. When recovered, they were found to have developed parahuman abilities.

Despite Margulis' protests, they were placed into a state of lucid dreaming and used as warframe pilots.

Continuing to monitor.

[ashen pulsar]

A ton of red veil members went insane with rell, right? Those are them

[chrome frost]

So my assumtion that the tenno could be considered something a kin to a hologram who has a nuclear core strapped to it was wrong, yeah that seems about right

[ashen pulsar]

It’s Wally, right?

[hollow siren]

Yes

Rell was the one who gave it that name

[restive river]

Albrecht called him that too actually

[hollow siren]

The Man in the Wall, because that is what it appeared as to Rell

[ashen pulsar]

He imagined Wally as a man knocking at a wall that he was holding up

[hollow siren]

"That man, trapped beyond the wall" (referring to the walls of Albrecht's labs and The Wall between Reality and Void)

[tall echo]

He said it a bit fancier tho

[ashen pulsar]

That’s where the rap tap tap comes from, right?

[chrome frost]

for all we know albrech could have been keeping in touch with Rell seeing as both fight the same thing

[hollow siren]

That's more of a narrative similarity than Albrecht actually calling it by Rell's name

[hollow siren]

yes

[ashen pulsar]

The wall of lohk is the portal, right? So different walls? Or technically both a wall between the void and reality but still different

[chrome frost]

then again what are you gonna call this other than a man in the wall?

[hollow siren]

it's unclear if anyone but us and Lotus has seen this form

[tall echo]

Not his true form

[hollow siren]

"Lohk" means Void, "The Wall" refers to the border between Reality and Void.

[ashen pulsar]

Rell never saw him

[hollow siren]

Albrecht's Voidgate is known as "The Great Untime Door"

[silk atlas]

That's Wally doing a funny.

[hollow siren]

Wally looking like the vitruvian man is it mocking us, since the vitruvian man is the symbol of logical science and human understanding, while Wally is so beyond that

[silk atlas]

And also, is in wall.

[vale sail]

evidence 1. as you have said teno are humans with a piece of wally are able to use the void. just humans+

evidence 2. warframes are a techno-organic war machines that are void powered as you have said.

teno being able to use the void do to wally should while in transference with their warframe also be the power source.
the one thing they have in common is the void but with different used methods/use.
why is it so hard to understand that teno can just transfer pure void for their void powered warframe when it doesn’t really siphon as much from the heart of deimos compared to everything else.

[hollow siren]

the incomprehensible taking the form of the symbol that symbolizes everything being comprehensible

[ashen pulsar]

Okay so the same wall

More irony

[hollow siren]

"The Wall" does refer to the Void in general sometimes, yeah, but Albrecht and Rell calling it "The Man in/beyond the Wall" is also more literal in that to them, it was some weird man in a wall/trapped beyond the wall

[sly ibex]

Myrkul Angle's Vitrovian Man.

[chrome frost]

so albrecht decided to break the 4th wall and ended up summoning that thing into existence? Good to know that wally is just a really really indifferent troll who plays warframe and managed to get inside

[tall echo]

Rell specifically called him man in the wall presumably bc wally just kinda taunted him by rap tap tapping against walls

[ashen pulsar]

Nah that’s another thing that rell imagined

Wally taunted him by tapping because rell imagined him as the man in the wall

[tall echo]

Rell wouldn't imagine him as that without wally doing the tapping

Albrecht's encounter wasn't public knowledge

[ashen pulsar]

Sure he would. There was a wall that rell was holding up, between the world and the void, and it was something scary beyond that.

That’s how rell would imagine it

[sly ibex]

Also remember that he was tapping before we made the deal.

[chrome frost]

the more i think about it the more i see wally not as an eldritch horror who desires to get as many concepts to embody as it can but more like a really really indifferent scientist who likes to troll people to see what happens

[ashen pulsar]

Rell?

[tall echo]

Rell imprisoned wally, not held him beyond the wall

[tall echo]

Wally obv

[ashen pulsar]

When

[tall echo]

Window

[sly ibex]

The Man in the Wall. We saw/heard him tapping before Rell knew he existed.

The New War shows it

[ashen pulsar]

When tho

[tall echo]

Know this: if I phrase something with certainty, I am 99% certain about it

[tall echo]

Window.

[graceful swan]

Rell didn’t invent Rap Tap Tap he merely learned of it

[sly ibex]

When we are going around telling the other kids to be quiet and stay warm. And after we told Melica to turn off the lights and shutdown.

[restive river]

That’s not proof of the Tenno using their void abilities to power their frame
You’re still assuming that to be the case.

You’ve supplied evidence for the possibility but no proof for the actual action.

[vale sail]

is thinking that from the lore provided that teno could do that be a real possibility?

[sly ibex]

We approach someone that looks like us who is tapping on the glass, offer to let him borrow our light, and he turns around and says "thanks, kiddo. I think I will."

[restive river]

I have said it is :|
It’s still an assumption as it has not been done.

[ashen pulsar]

He’s tapping on the window in the class? I never noticed.

[restive river]

It’s possible, not proven.

[sly ibex]

After things have gone crazy and the door is barricaded.

[tall echo]

Even the big reverberating tap when he stops?

[sly ibex]

During that portion.

[vale sail]

alright so lore is assumption got it

[restive river]

:| no.

[tall echo]

You are infuriating to talk to

[lean garden]

but given that warframes have powers without the tenno...

[ashen pulsar]

Nope lol, either I didn’t have my headphones on or I assumed it was part of the music

[sly ibex]

The Warframes can use their powers without us. We have seen that on multiple occasions already. Chroma, Mesa, Excalibur Umbra, and the Hex are just a few examples.

[restive river]

Their arguement is the tenno could power the frame without the heart

[vale sail]

hey i am just use lore which isn’t really reliable i guess my bad

[sly ibex]

Then there's Stalker, Kullervo, and who knows how many others.

[lean garden]

fat load that did during HoD

[tall echo]

Dante presumably

[tall echo]

You're cherry picking lore

[vale sail]

damn okay

[sly ibex]

I don't get how our powers were too weakened to use our Warframe in Heart of Deimos, but we could use the Necramech. Since it was our power that was diminished when the Heart was blasted, that means our Transference was weaker... So how did it still give full functionality with the Necramech?

[restive river]

Their argument is not that the tenno are what power the warframes but that the tenno could power the warframes due to having a piece of Wally
Which, while perhaps possible is an assumption.

[tall echo]

Mech isn't void powered

[chrome frost]

...actually is there a lore reason corpus the second most advanced faction currently alive Doesnt have a necramech knockoff yet?

[restive river]

Iirc we don’t use Transference on the necramechs?

[sly ibex]

We already saw in Heart of Deimos that this isn't the case, yeah.

[lean garden]

we do, our thing is cross-routed to necramech control systems

[sly ibex]

We do. Father even says he redirects our Transference impulse, for those who haven't done The Second Dream. Otherwise, we just outright Transference into Snake by ourselves.

[graceful swan]

Because they haven’t got Orokin level skills

[tall echo]

They have stronger stuff kinda

[restive river]

Ah, that’s right I got confused
“Cross-routed”

[sly ibex]

But our Transference is reliant on our Void powers, which is why we were too weak to effectively use our Warframes. Warframes aren't Void-powered, either.

[lean garden]

the issue then was our warframes started to shut down tho

[tall echo]

They are

[vale sail]

i guess using lore and trying to apply it as if warframe was a real universe isn’t really a good approach

[restive river]

Yeah, which maybe we could later on but again it’s purely an assumption

[sly ibex]

In the quest, Father says we are too weak to use our Warframes. Not that the Warframes are too weak.

[lean garden]

gimme a sec playing star trek

[sly ibex]

[chrome frost]

....so copying a sentient tech (profit taker shields) is easier than copying a dead body in a metal suit? (assuming they already have a necramech lying around which could be true considering orphix missions)

[restive river]

You are assuming the existence of an ability that we have never seen.

[vale sail]

got it

[ashen pulsar]

Sometimes people just don’t come up with the idea

[vale sail]

so if it isn’t in game it doesn’t exist

[lean garden]

??

[ashen pulsar]

If it isn’t canon then it’s probably a theory

[restive river]

In no instance have the tenno powered their frame with their void powers
Is it possible? Maybe
But it has never been seen or heard of.

[waxen gyro]

Can you chilll, how you're acting is not conducive to discussion

[vale sail]

i am literally chilling eating some food

i am not really mad or anything i just think different than you guys

[graceful swan]

If nothing currently suggests it then it probably doesn't

[restive river]

You’re theorizing that’s not the same thing :p

[sly ibex]

We use our Void power of Transference to control the Warframes, but not to fuel them.

[waxen gyro]

Fair enough, apolgoies

[restive river]

You theorize it’s possible
Whether or not it is has yet to be seen

[sly ibex]

Warframes have some form of unlimited energy, as Ordis has said. At least, as far as we know so far

[ashen pulsar]

Usually when there’s more evidence towards one end than the other people tend to go with the more supported one, basically

[waxen gyro]

The wayi remember it is that the warframe acts as a template, or focusing device for the energy of the operator.

[lean garden]

unlimited from the Heart

[restive river]

Likely the heart tbh

[ashen pulsar]

And the more supported direction is that they can’t.

[restive river]

That is incorrect

[lean garden]

likely? aint it said in HoD and in KIM?

man I need to clear this mission faster

[sly ibex]

Honestly, I don't know. I feel like maybe not, since they were made out of just pure Infestation. Could be, though.

[restive river]

We have one instance where our frame is depowered and it’s when the heart shuts down

[ashen pulsar]

The Tenno just help the frames calm down, right? This is simplified but isn’t that basically what we do?

[restive river]

They are literally powered by the heart-

[graceful swan]

And we could still use Transference

[restive river]

And pilot them

[waxen gyro]

When was the heart made? Like, in the timeline

[restive river]

Ye

[sly ibex]

Probably before the original Zariman jump. Just not sure when.

[restive river]

Unknown exactly but before Warframes were made

Before the old war

[sly ibex]

I don't remember that being said, off the top of my head.

[graceful swan]

I think this is actually referring to the frame “It's what makes you special, you know that, right? All thanks to my father. It pumps the arteries of 'the here' and the Void. The Entrati family maintained it for an age. But it's breaking down, and the only idiot that knows how to fix it... the man I used to call my husband.”

[ashen pulsar]

“Through the creation of Transference, They would became the new 'Operators' of the feral Warframes, as they were the only ones who managed to tame them.”

[waxen gyro]

Weren't warframes unable to be used before the zariman incident, since many of them were made?

[lean garden]

Ok found it:

Father: "Alright, with the Void closing up, you're going to be too weak to help in that frame."
Keep in mind this is juxtaposed with the section where you literally have a:
Loid: "Tenno? Still functional? Listen carefully. Getting back to the surface is not going to be easy. I don't know how to break this to you, but your Warframe... it's barely functional. You're going to have to say low and out of sight. I know a shortcut, but you've got to do the rest."
So to me its reading as the frame + you combo is too weak to function

[sly ibex]

That's Mother talking about the Heart, not the Warframes.

[ashen pulsar]

Yeah

[lean garden]

well, none of the warframes were made before the zariman incident

[ashen pulsar]

We tamed them and pilot them

[sly ibex]

I took it as us being too weak, since that's what Father says.

[waxen gyro]

I thought there were previously failed attempts from them trying to use the infestation against the sentients?

[ashen pulsar]

Is that true?

I thought they did exist but were really hard to control

[sly ibex]

That's after the Zariman incident. Zariman was before the Sentients were created.

[restive river]

We literally observe it and it’s said in a convo with Eleanor

[normal mountain]

Weren't the Sentients made after the Zariman incident?

[lean garden]

which is why I say the additional context of the scene prior is important

[waxen gyro]

I thought it was after, since it was a colony ship being sent to tau after the sentients terraformed it

[normal mountain]

Yeah, okay, I was right

[graceful swan]

Zariman went first Sentients weren't even a second attempt

[sly ibex]

We were probably on ice for thousands of years before the Old War, or at least centuries. However long it took the Sentients to fly at sub-light speeds to Tau while stopping to build Rails.

[silk atlas]

Nah, Zariman was first, then they failed and that's why the Sentients were made after.

[normal mountain]

The Zariman had terraforming tech
Why would it have that if the Sentients had been sent out first?

[waxen gyro]

Oh. Odd. But that does make sense, thank you

[sly ibex]

Zariman was first, and it had terraforming systems on it. When it failed, that's when they created and sent the Sentients.

[waxen gyro]

I didn't know it had terraforming systems on it.

That makes sense then

[graceful swan]

Sentients weren’t even a second attempt

[sly ibex]

Yeah. Originally Duviri was supposed to be made from the terraforming system, then that idea was discarded for the conceptual embodiment.

[ashen pulsar]

Originally cultivated to prevent a converted host's mind from falling under the Technocyte influence, the first Warframes ultimately regressed into feral animals.

[restive river]

I want a book that focuses entirely on Duviri’s dev history tbh

[sly ibex]

I think you replied to the wrong comment lol

[ashen pulsar]

I kinda did but I think he did too lol

[graceful swan]

Doesn’t the art of Warframe have a whole arc about Duviri development

[sly ibex]

[restive river]

Yeah but I want more

[sly ibex]

Wait, Nemesis' message wasn't a direct reply.

[restive river]

Like what was up with the Jupiter thing

[sly ibex]

What Jupiter thing?

[restive river]

Duviri was originally going to be on Jupiter iirc

[lean garden]

There are removed lines from fortuna that talked about Duviri being on a gas planet

[restive river]

It was one of the Jovial planets
Either saturn or jupiter

[sly ibex]

Oh, I looked at the wrong one. Nemesis said part of the same thing a few lines down from there lol

[lean garden]

wait so how was your reply a reply to this? seems a smidge unrelated yknow?

[tall echo]

One of the happy planets?

[restive river]

I meant Jovian lmao

[sly ibex]

Ahhh, that's what you meant about Jupiter. I forgot about that. Man. Must have been so long ago

[tall echo]

Saturn and jupiter are now jovial planets

[sly ibex]

The only happy planet.

[restive river]

So so long ago

[restive river]

Neptuna and Uranus:

Actually one of those makes sense for why it’s sad…

[tall echo]

Well

[ashen pulsar]

I’m very confused now lol. I meant to reply to the original message again but I accidentally replied to that one. think you accidentally replied to mine as well tho?

[graceful swan]

My message was pointing out how you need the Sentients for the Old War creating Warframes for the purpose of killing them so the Zariman went first you asked if it was true I was saying why

[lean garden]

No mine wasnt an accident, I was asking whats up with the spiel about warframes in response to the sentients and the zariman lol

[tall echo]

Ngl I'm surprised that I can send and receive messages I'm sitting in a spot where there shouldn't be internet or mobile data reception

[ashen pulsar]

Oh, I was just mentioning that warframes did exist for other reasons before Tenno control

[lean garden]

must be that void halo bathing the system

[lean garden]

weeeeeell, technically its the same reason

before and after the tenno it was for the exact same reason

beat back the scary robots

[graceful swan]

Yeah, to protect from Sentient attacks

[tall echo]

Master choef

[ashen pulsar]

Not the exact same, since there’s the added part of protect protecting people who have been infected

[lean garden]

eh?

[tall echo]

Wjat

[lean garden]

The Warframes before and after the tenno were both made for the general purpose of fighting the Sentients

[graceful swan]

The whole point of Warframes was to fight Sentients

[lean garden]

I'm not sure what you mean by protecting people who have been infected

[ashen pulsar]

My reply at some point

Originally cultivated to prevent a converted host's mind from falling under the Technocyte influence, the first Warframes ultimately regressed into feral animals.

[tall echo]

-# Blame my typos on the fact that I just had to fight to get my dog off my legs

[tall echo]

???

[lean garden]

Oh nah no that wasnt what warframes pre-tenno were made for

[ashen pulsar]

Idk I’m just citing the wiki tbh

[tall echo]

Oh gods

[lean garden]

I think youre uh, misrepresenting the sentence

[tall echo]

Wiki lore
Wiki lore

[graceful swan]

Oh no that’s terrible

[lean garden]

"originally cultivated" is not meaning that was the purpose of the warframes before the tenno, its meaning that for the pre-tenno frames they were built as such for the purpose of autonomously fighting the sentients

-# but even then where the hell did "Originally cultivated to prevent a converted host's mind from falling under the Technocyte influence" come from? They sure as hell werent made like that

[graceful swan]

Where is that even said on the wiki?

I feel like someone has done some lore tampering

[sly ibex]

That's talking about the Helminth strain, the one used to create Warframes.

[lean garden]

Ballas: "Our hubris shone like a black star… for our technology, our war-machines were your kin. How easily you turned them against us. We were forced to older means. Not circuits, nor light… but flesh and disease. Our horrors past, our ravaged outer colonies… became gardens!"

Ballas: "We cultured the infestation, conceiving of a hybrid. Transformed, but only just. The Helminth was created, born to yield these new warriors, worthy of battle against you, the great and terrible Hunhow."

Ballas: "We took our greatest, volunteers or not, and polluted them with these cultured reagents. They transformed. They became infested…"

Ballas: "…but only just. Their skin blossomed into sword-steel. Their organs, interlinked with untold resilience. Yet their minds were free of the Infested madness. Or so we thought. We set them upon the battlefield, bio-drones under our command."

[sly ibex]

Originally, it was thought to strengthen and empower the people they turned into Warframes while leaving them "free of the Infested madness," as Ballas put it

[abstract ridge]

tau

🐂

[tall echo]

What

[sage moat]

Tau guys. Tau for sure. 100% tau

Taking bets rn make sure you bet on tau

Easy money yeah? Bet on it being tau

[lilac aspen]

Why are our soldiers going mad? It must be from the infested.

Also ballas “Yeah so we drugged them, brutalized them, etc. to make them obey us.”

[sage moat]

Well I think the implications is that they started disobeying and THEN got drugged and brutalized in an attempt to make them obey

[main crane]

Well... Who would want to become a funny metal puppet? (Regardless if pre-Tenno or not)

[graceful swan]

Gara

Literally became a frame to spite Nihil

[tall echo]

Not exactly but close enough

[normal mountain]

Gara volunteered to become a warframe
Nihil demanded she be glassed
Ballas gave her glass powers to spite Nihil

is it worrying that I get Ballas' sense of humor?

[lilac aspen]

It was funny that Nihil was offended by Gara offering herself to be warframe’d

Meanwhile the rest of them went “Holy shit she’s based for this.”

[vale sail]

Susage

[ashen pulsar]

the page for warframes. After looking at it more, I can’t find an actual source for the statement, so I admit that I should’ve looked into it more

[ashen pulsar]

And then the frames went crazy, and then the zariman was discovered and transference was created to help the tenno tame them and control them? This makes more sense, thx

[graceful swan]

Transference wasn’t created It was innate

[ashen pulsar]

Mb for the false info 😅

[lean garden]

Transference tech was developed from our innate transference

So now other goobers can do transference

[ashen pulsar]

Ohhh

[graceful swan]

Like the tree lady

[ashen pulsar]

Yeah, because we can just transfer into anything, I forgor

[proper barn]

I still think it was more rebellion than went crazy.

But that's just me.

[lean garden]

Like the ultraman suits in the netflix series being developed after studying the ultras

[graceful swan]

We probably can’t transfer into just anything

[ashen pulsar]

I mean, maybe, but most of them didn’t really retain sentience, right?

[woven coyote]

Also transference was originally intended as therapy for the tenno

[ashen pulsar]

In which case it wouldn’t really be rebellion, it would just be the most primal form of that, closer to pure rage

[graceful swan]

Wasn’t that transcendence?

[woven coyote]

Fairly sure not
Iirc transcendence is the name of the pre war within power beam we do

[proper barn]

All gen 1s did.

[proper barn]

We don't know when she does this. Seemingly while Margulis is still alive but we don't know like a concrete timeline.

[graceful swan]

Margulis was probably killed during the War

[ashen pulsar]

Considering that she’s not speaking about her in past tense I would assume margulis is still alive here

[proper barn]

Okay that's not the question. It's more "when did the warframes and tenno get used together." And was Margulis still alive.

[woven coyote]

It still confirms the one thing i said, transference was originally therapy for the tenno

[proper barn]

Oh yeah I assumed that.

I thought we all agreed on that.

Like it's the tenno doing like "out of body" experiences.

[woven coyote]

Was explaining to mel, who thought transference was made specifically to control frames

[ashen pulsar]

I had forgotten that we can just… do it

[proper barn]

The tennos had powers when Margulis found them.

She kinda like lessens our powers to try yo help us.

[ashen pulsar]

Transference, specifically.

But yeah

[tall echo]

And void beam

[ashen pulsar]

I forgot that it was one of our innate powers and not something developed afterwards

[graceful swan]

Orokin ain’t got no Void powers

[ashen pulsar]

Just the zariman kids ik

[graceful swan]

And Wally

And Angels

[ashen pulsar]

Well yeah

[strange turtle]

Would the Cavia’s colour changing count as a Void power?

It’s because of Alchemy rather than Void, but the Alchemy was “Void and Anti-Void” and whatever the unknown other thing is

[graceful swan]

Probably us

[analog glade]

I will say Transference to a point isn't just for operators.
Ballas: "(Transference) Oh, this... I've had them fit you with a Transference bolt. In honor of our history together."

More like they discovered parts of it though the tenno, using void energies.

[dense salmon]

I think the Tenno helped them discover Transference, v but they obviously managed to find a way to copy it. Especially since that New Loca girl transfered herself into a tree

[restive river]

I don’t recall sylvana being part of new loka specifically
But yes Transference was discovered through the Tenno, iirc due to Margulis, anyone can do it with somatics and especially so if a bolt is implanted into the desired target

[tall echo]

New loka didn't even exist back then

[vale sail]

can Teno not create the same feats as the warframes?

[vale sail]

so thats how the void works?

[stiff fable]

Late but no, transference is how continuity works

[humble sierra]

Yeah I think the Tenno can do it with less assistance

[stiff fable]

They don't need machinery, Kuva or weird rituals

[viscid scroll]

thanks infestation

[vale sail]

the infestation loves the operator?

[hexed oxide]

spoilers for techrot encore and flare kim chats

[humble sierra]

The Helminth does

[vale sail]

well doesn’t the helminth fear the operator and see the warframe as the master?

[humble sierra]

The Helminth fears "The void demon". In its eyes, the Operator is plagued with the Void. It loves the Tenno, and wants to cure it of the demon

[vale sail]

why does the helmith love the teno tho

it just does?

[humble sierra]

The Warframes were driven mad thanks to the Orokin, but the Tenno calmed them, so maybe the Helminth is grateful for that?

[vale sail]

hm i see

[proper barn]

@humble sierra slighty wrong. It thinks we are a demon UNTIL we use the helminth segment

then it makes a "deal" with us and loves us then.

[vale sail]

a deal happens then when 1999 quest happens it loves us?

[proper barn]

the deal makes the helminth like

like us. you GET TO NAME IT AND EVERYTHING

did you not get the helminth segment from diemos?

[vale sail]

i have it just have things mixed up or forgot

[proper barn]

probably missed it cuz it's not big change and you can miss if you never like talk to helminth before you get the segment.

[sleek steppe]

is there a forum explaining the warframe lore

[strange spindle]

I did not know that the helminth has a personality

[ashen pulsar]

I don’t think there’s just one explanation of the entire lore, that’s a lot. The wiki usually has lore on certain things tho

[strange spindle]

Leveling the entrati rep looks like a whole thing

[ashen pulsar]

I don’t want to level any rep 😭 I know I have to but I’m supposed to level ostron and entrati and quills and Solaris U and Solaris

Syndicates are scary

[strange spindle]

I just level the rep of people I like, unfortunately, the cavia want stuff from the zariman to increase their rep and so I have to do those bounties too

I hate faction grinding in multiplayer games

At this point, I'm just not gonna do the ones that I think are too hard. If it means the helminth will never talk to me, so be it

[ashen pulsar]

Oh yeah cavia too

And naturally, the syndicates that I pledged to as well, although those are the easiest

[strange spindle]

I came to experience the 1999 storyline and now I have

So everything else is optional

[restive river]

The warframes existed before the tenno

[restive river]

In short, yes

[ashen pulsar]

can't bullet jump, which is all that matters :/

[proper barn]

i mean Orokin Archives

is good it's not a forum really though.

[proper barn]

maybe probably.

[proper barn]

what you mean? @ashen pulsar

The family or like something else?

[ashen pulsar]

thats uhh

not me

[proper barn]

you also talked about snyds

what do you wanna know? i can tell you the best way to rep for each one.

[ashen pulsar]

yeah, no syndicate in particular, im just saying its annoying having to level so many

[proper barn]

some of them the best way is kinda werid.

like the best way to level Fortuna and Cetus is animals

[ashen pulsar]

rn im tryna get ostron standing for murkray bait

[proper barn]

and then Diemos is Just BOUNTIES

[ashen pulsar]

animals? really?

[restive river]

What
They mostly certainly did, at least in the sense of the tenno being used with the warframes

[proper barn]

yes.

[ashen pulsar]

like the tags?

[proper barn]

oh i agree with that.

[proper barn]

just catching them gives standing.

for places that aren't diemos.

[ashen pulsar]

how much

[proper barn]

depends on the animal.

[ashen pulsar]

I was gonna do bounties but

if that applies

[proper barn]

also depends on what animals you can get.

[proper barn]

also ivara or Equinox their sleep abilites do work on them.

it's why i have a ivara build that has a high range high duration.

[ashen pulsar]

wait how do you hunt animals? I never do it.

[proper barn]

okay well theres 2 ways.

you can pull out your like tranq rifle and look for wandering animals

OR you can use your call and then go to animal like "tracking" areas and then use the call to call them and then catch it.

like if you go out to the plains at night there are specail vampire cats just around. @ashen pulsar

also for Fortuna it's easy it's just stovers or kubrodons. @ashen pulsar

actually LET ME LOG IN

[ashen pulsar]

cant play if thats what ur saying

[proper barn]

https://wiki.warframe.com/w/Conservation#Horrasque_Stormer_

anyway here @ashen pulsar What was i gonna say. OH Zariman it's just do like the quickest bounty and kill the angel and then leave. like Cuz the bounties give you quills based on bounty level.

but yeah Diemos it's just do the highest bounty that isn't SP and just those those tokens into g-ma.

[ashen pulsar]

i havent done angels yet so thats not an issue atm

[proper barn]

anyway

BACK TO LORE.

[swift steppe]

okay so i got a question

i need to think first tho

wtf was the meaning of the sun in the tennocon trailer thingy

[proper barn]

we don't know.

[swift steppe]

yall should

yall are the lore guys

[proper barn]

i won't lie to you and say we know when we don't

@swift steppe i assume you are joking but only frauds say they know when they don't.

[swift steppe]

lmaoo im just joking sorryyyyyyyyyyy

but youre right lol

can we speculate here?

[sage moat]

yes its my favorite thing to do on this channel

but if you say its tau i get to laugh

[swift steppe]

okay nice

wtf does the sun in tennocon thingy mean

i see everyone saying its tau its tau like girl wtf is the correlation

nobody is explaining WHY theyre saying that

[proper barn]

yeah.

[proper barn]

Tau's sun is blue

is the only think we know.

[swift steppe]

where does it say that

imagine if our IRL sun was blue

omg it would be so cool

[proper barn]

mag prime codex.

[sage moat]

also just irl physics iirc