lore-discussion

[ashen pulsar]

oh okay

poor grineer

[cunning wave]

Entrati violated time.. does that have to do with the temporal axion or smth? In the new war it was like a small part in classroom with operators right

Is that what it is in the Hex?

[hollow siren]

Parvos stole Entrati tech; the Specter Particles. Those are the source of Protea's temporal manipulation

[hollow siren]

"Temporal Axiom" is just the name of that subject

[lean garden]

Not orokin clones, clones made by the orokin

[hollow siren]

originally just for physical labor, one Grineer managed to kill a Sentient during the early stages of the Old War, whose genomes were used to then create the Combat Grineer who the modern Grineer are the "descendants" of

the Thrax we see on the Zariman and Lua are Void ghosts of these original Combat Grineer, hence their immense size, and why they wield Void versions of ancient weapons

modern Grineer are still effectively super-soldiers compared to normal humans, but the original combat Grineer were on a different level

[cunning wave]

It would be interesting if that grineer was Kahls ancestor

[hollow siren]

Since the original genome was lost, no

Besides, Grineer don't reproduce

[cunning wave]

:0

[hollow siren]

They just make more clones

[cunning wave]

Yeah but like what if the soul they had reincarnated into Kahl?

[hollow siren]

true..............

[cunning wave]

They dont have souls? Are they just like puppets or smth?

[hollow siren]

they're modified humans

[cunning wave]

Becausee

Kahl had a change, he changed when he was near death experience he said for my brothers

Instead of queens that does make him humanly

Right? Then he does have a soul

Then the soul which the first grineer who defeated a sentient may be reincarnated into Kahl?

But i could never see Erra as a brother of Natah 😭😭😭

They are sooo different in appearance

[tall echo]

But all current grineer are related to the sentient killing one due to him becoming the base template after that

[hollow siren]

Yes, but the genome made from him was lost, so it's more indirect

[hollow siren]

I mean yeah, Sentients vary greatly. Besides, Natah is a Mimic, she shapeshifts

[cunning wave]

But i love the natah we saw in new war more than lotus in appearnace

I chose her to be my guide

[hollow siren]

when she's an Eidolon yeah

[cunning wave]

I felt she was sooo pretty

😩

[lament loom]

which warframes do you guys think could stop the 1999 nuke

[lean garden]

What like superman eating a bomb?

[lament loom]

like grendel eating it

[lean garden]

eh

we know warframes arent going to be immune to tanking a big explosion

[viscid scroll]

Covenant with 400% range could do it

[tall echo]

Limbo

[lilac aspen]

Qorvex would call it an “amateur” and release more nuclear energy to overpower its nuclear energy

Thus stopping it
And causing even more death than that explosion but that’s beside the point

[lilac aspen]

Rhino in his invulnerability moment after casting iron skin would become super tanky after the blast

[tall echo]

There's a lot of frames like that

[lilac aspen]

Oh wait
I’m silly

Volt could put his three shields around the core to block the blast

He can do it with the Spider

[tall echo]

If the meltdown is one hit of huge dmg then any frame with shields can survive it

[lilac aspen]

Give every citizen shield gating mods to survive the damage

[sage stratus]

Hear me out, make a new one

Or just kidnap a random ostron or something

[hollow siren]

That's what Operation: Tubemen and Tyl Regor's Assassination are about preventing

[hollow siren]

The Grineer do not have the knowledge of how to just recreate an unflawed Grineer cloning genome, they're just making more clones from the flawed ones that remain since the Old War

[lilac aspen]

Shout out to Tyl Regor trying to help his Tubemen

[graceful swan]

Last time a guy caused an explosion this happened

Parvos Granum: "The palace birds think they control us. They hit our research site with a warframe assault team. Of course they did. I baited them to do it. The whole site lit up. Eighty mega-therm bloom. The whole lab, vaporised, those warframes with it. Fire. Fusion. Void."

[lilac aspen]

No one
Not a soul

Parvos Granum:

[sage stratus]

Not a speck of consousness in the weave

Orders upon parvos opening his mouth:

[tall echo]

What

[hollow siren]

Rewrite of message above it

[ashen pulsar]

Me when I put them the wrong way and the blast gains electric damage

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

[chrome frost]

Lorewise frickin lavos gonna alter the funny plutonium or whatever radioactive material is used in them into something else using the funny alchemy stuff

[brittle siren]

Iirc the government give Scaldra total control, and they also the one who create Technocyte Coda

[brittle siren]

If so then why Amir not doing it
You seem to underestimate a nuclear explosion

[brittle siren]

Tbh 1999 reflects irl event too: big cooperation control a large part of the Government

[lilac aspen]

You seem to not realize I am memeing considering in game Volt can block some ridiculous stuff with a funny electric shield

Also the protoframes aren’t as capable with their powers due to not having anyone teach them their capabilities AND due to not being completely warframified. A good example is Aoi not just hoisting the truck off herself despite the Drifter’s Warframe doing it without issues, or Aoi trying to brute force the nuclear rods first time around instead of manipulating the mechanism instead the second time around.

Amir seems focused on the fact his abilities grant him a ton of speed but doesn’t seem that proficient in the fact Volt is more than just being fast, at least cutscene wise

Gameplay wise he uses other Volt powers because he’s essentially a Free Volt specter with a different skin.

[brittle siren]

I use your logic, also Warframe themselves need time to learn abilities too, Proto is not the exception

[lilac aspen]

Truth is the strongest frame that can tank the nuclear blast is Yareli clearly

When she’s on her board she takes significantly reduced damage

[brittle siren]

Like you expect that a child just transfer into a frame manage to control it right away? Even Drifter who did transference once in Duviri, and when they come to the Orbiter and do that again, they have the hard time to even standing up

[brittle siren]

If so then Nezha and Nova could too

Also the topic is how to stop the nuke, not tanking it like Wolverine in Marvel and everything around him die

[lilac aspen]

Just carry the nuke with her bubbles or something ez

Zoom out the city with it

Nova could just push it through a wormhole away from the town

[brittle siren]

I'm actually gonna stop making sense for you since you clearly still joking around

[silk atlas]

Okay big issue with this convo is that we're not dealing with an actual nuke. It's the reactor, and a reactor meltdown doesn't work like a nuke. It's only shown like that because an actual meltdown looks boring as hell and people much more associate nuclear danger with the bombs.

[lilac aspen]

Honestly the reactor could be stopped by any of the frames the same way the team stopped it

Hack it

If we want to get further technical
Kill the boss, make sure the rods are back in the reactor, and hack it

[brittle siren]

That is before it explode

I think the person asking this mean "who can literally make the explosion stop"

[tall echo]

Bruh chill

[lilac aspen]

I mean
You make the explosion stop by making sure it doesn’t start to begin with

Because if you want to stop the actual explosion as it goes off then only Limbo could do that and it’d kill him in the process

Cataclysm the reactor before it blows

[brittle siren]

Then literally a normal human could do it, warframe would be too extra

[lilac aspen]

No other frame has a way to stop it unless they can manipulate time (to stop it literally), space (send it somewhere else) or can somehow heal the entire area so hard that it outpaces the raw damage of a reactor detonation.

[brittle siren]

Limbo:

He can stop time in his dimension and make a giant bubble, or just banish the reactor

[lilac aspen]

Taps the sign

Mentioned him

[brittle siren]

Ah forgot that Citrine kinda save the couple inside her crystal, though they may be dead already

[lilac aspen]

Usually being preserved in a substance kills you

Granted Void Magic tm

[brittle siren]

To be fair they were in there for thousands of years

And unlike cryotic method, their body still funtion until they run out of air

But at least it survive the explosion

She could just make a shell around it and hope for the best

[sage stratus]

Do we know the reason for why the zeriman jump failed?

[ashen pulsar]

I don’t think so, but we know that it was a hasty decision and that the captain lied over the intercom

[sage stratus]

Maybe it was also due to some strong emotions among the crew

[ashen pulsar]

I think the zariman wasn’t really in a great spot and so they just tried to do the jump without much preparation

[lean garden]

There was much preparation, for smaller repeated jumps

[sage stratus]

Also wasnt there already infighting before the jump

[lean garden]

not one big jump

[ashen pulsar]

That was what I meant by in a bad spot, mb

[ashen pulsar]

Especially not when the idiot captain lies to everyone and just does it without warning

[lean garden]

that uh,

I dont think you remembered that right

[ashen pulsar]

Didn’t he say it was a test and then go through with it?

[sage stratus]

Also tbf, it might have also had something to do with the indifference not liking the orokin for stealing from it

Remember, the finger

[ashen pulsar]

that’s a viable theory, could also just be that they didn’t understand void technology as well as they thought

[sage stratus]

True

Cause it kinda looks like they just upsized the normal railjack drive

[lean garden]

Well no

because he didnt say it was a test

Zariman announcer: "Pardon the interruption. This is Zariman actual. All decks, all stations, stand by for Reliquary field drill."

[sage stratus]

Drill, still another word for test

God, could u imagine all this happened because some moron spilt a drink somewhere

[lean garden]

I feel like the two of you uh

[ashen pulsar]

What am I missing?

Said it’s a drill, not a test. Doesn’t change the fact that he went through with it.

[lean garden]

the fact that if it was a drill the drive would still be activated?

[ashen pulsar]

Why?

Lockdown drill doesn’t require a school to bring in a shooter

[lean garden]

Zariman announcer: "Pardon the interruption. This is Zariman actual. All decks, all stations, stand by for Reliquary field drill."

Cephalon Melica: "Students, please direct your attention to the windows. You may find this instructive!"

[The students look at the window, some of them standing up. The cephalon dims the classroom lights for better visibility.]

Zariman announcer: "In ten… nine… eight… seven… six… five… four… three… two…."

If for a moment you managed to convince yourself that the reliquary drive wasnt meant to be activated here

thats entirely a misreading

[mystic lynx]

Is indifference the same thing as wally?

[lean garden]

yes

[ashen pulsar]

Different names by different people for something they can’t quite comprehend, basically

[ashen pulsar]

Then what was the intention? Just activate it without jumping?

[lean garden]

??

Its activation means you jump

[ashen pulsar]

Then why would it be a drill

[vivid steppe]

Captain probably lied

[ashen pulsar]

That’s what I’m saying

[lean garden]

You can jump as a drill

the notion that a drill means the drive wont activate is evidently false

[vivid steppe]

That doesn’t mean the captain didn’t lie, maybe it was intentional

It’s unknown to us

[lean garden]

the point of contention is not if the captain lied, the point of contention is what he lied about

[regal torrent]

Is steel path something that actually exists?

[vivid steppe]

Misinterpreted it mb. That’s an easy answer no? A drill generally means testing something with the intent to see if it works or not, he could have lied about it being just a “drill” and intended for it to go wrong

[lean garden]

I highly doubt the captain wanted the jump to go wrong

if anything the lie was it being a drill jump and not the actual jump

[vivid steppe]

That’s the thing that we will never know though, maybe he did want it to go wrong, maybe he didn’t. There’s sm diff possibilities

[lean garden]

I mean then it becomes a rather moot point when trying to attribute causes for the Zariman incident dontcha think?

If its something we can't know, then we can't attribute it to the problem

[vivid steppe]

To an extent. he is the one that announced the drill, but here is where there is still many possibilities. He could’ve been the one that made the order to do the drill, the one that set it up, or he could’ve just been the one announcing it

There’s many possibilities to everything that happened, to the point where almost anything could be a reason on why it happened

[ashen pulsar]

I think the main reasons why it could’ve went wrong is either Wally or trashy tech

[ashen pulsar]

It would’ve been a genius move for Wally to ruin the ship and then make a deal with the now-orphaned children, actually

Ignoring the fact that we didn’t end up holding our end of the deal

[woven coyote]

A drill for one of the out of system jumps

Aka jump within the origin system to check everything is in order for when they go out of the system

Like sailing in the harbor/near the coast before going out to the ocean

[ashen pulsar]

Oh, that could make sense

[woven coyote]

Iirc we were orbiting saturn or jupiter, or well close to that

Forgot what was out of the window

[ashen pulsar]

“the ship experienced an accident while making ‘the fold from Saturn to the Outer gates’ and vanished into the Void, an incident that would be known as the Void-Jump Accident.”

[graceful swan]

“Accident”

Totally wasn't Wally just being funny

[swift sentinel]

It's not a literal path, but it's the missions that Teshin sends the Tenno on to test their growth. The fact that the star chart nodes stay the same is just gameplay.

[normal mountain]

Iirc, the lore explanation for Steel Path is basically Teshin tells the enemies you're coming
So they've prepared a special welcome, just for you

I think
tbh, I can't actually be bothered with SP, so I probably misremembered something

[restive river]

I love this explanation and I do consider it canon but I don’t actually recall where this is stated lmao

also like
does this mean teshin is sending messages to the murmur :o
and the techrot/scaldra???

me when I overthink gameplay

[normal mountain]

As funny as that would be for Teshin to do, it just doesn't quite work out for some factions
I bet the Murmur find out from Bird-3 talking about the Tenno's next mission a little too loudly
As for 1999, maybe Eleanor gives the Scaldra a telepathic heads up or something? Idk, it was a thought

I admit, it's not nearly as funny as the idea of Teshin's hologram sending messages through the Void and time, respectively

[hexed oxide]

what if it's just "the tenno have been here before and decimated our units. reinforce with more troops with better armor and weaponry"

[normal mountain]

Always possible

I just like the Teshin idea too much

[brittle siren]

Or I could think SP is more like a simulation of the old mission

In Genshin, the weekly boss is not actually we fighting them real time, but it just a memory
I think it kinda the same to SP

[swift sentinel]

Easiest explanation is that Teshin intentionally sends us to stronger enemy locations compared to the regular version. More heavily guarded, more elite troops, stuff like that.

[sage moat]

how does the lotus hand allow the drifter to use warframes during the duviri paradox? Do you think that could be part of the Lotus's deal with wally?

[silk atlas]

She never made a deal with Wally, so who knows how it lets Drifter use Warframes

[sage moat]

isnt it implied? via the line that's like "you don't know how much it took to hide lua in the void"

[silk atlas]

That's just how strong Void tech could be

Lotus didn't even know about Wally until Chains of Harrow

[sage moat]

oh thats a good point

[old dome]

on that topic: who knows how the drifter found lotus' entire body in the void in the first place.

they just did. & got her out of there somehow.

[strange plinth]

they had her hand and regrew it from that

[tall echo]

You did play tnw, right

[restive river]

Transference tech in the hand, aka somatics

Anyone can use transference with the right tech, it’s just also an innate ability to the tenno

[humble sierra]

Worth noting Lotus' voice says "Dream" when you defeat an Orowyrm and press your hand against it before it flies off.

[brittle siren]

It could have been infused with void energy after travel through the void to Duviri

Which make Lotus kinda have resistance to it (I think?)

[lucid acorn]

Spoilers for 1999 ||Can the hex change clothes? Do they have to shower over the clothes that have yet to be infested?||

[lean garden]

anything thats not part of their warframe body should be able to be swapped out

[humble sierra]

I wonder if the infestation grew over their clothes

[lucid acorn]

that's what i'm wondering

if they do change, does the infestation know where to wrap itself around?

and does it extend to outerwear like robes or coats and whatnot

[humble sierra]

I'm guessing if you let it, it'll consume whatever over time

I think the present-day infested Corpus and Grineer would probably answer this best

[proper barn]

I mean the actual clothes and shoes and stuff yeah.

[humble sierra]

If you look at the charger, it seems like the main part of it grew between the Grineer and its armor?

But also consumed the armor to grow eyes and whatnot

[proper barn]

No cuz you can tell that parts of then aren't infested.

[humble sierra]

Or whatever those glowy bits on the blue are

[proper barn]

Also helment just turns skin metal and stuff.

[humble sierra]

True

Big difference between Helminth strain and the Infested enemies

who are grey strain?

[proper barn]

But on someone like Kaya you can literally see her tummy under her like sweater shirt.

[strange plinth]

velimir seems to have some half-overcoat half-frost pieces

[proper barn]

Yeah.

[strange plinth]

grey strain is just deimos making stuff big iirc

[humble sierra]

Ah, ty

[proper barn]

If you look you can see the difference between fabric and like infested metal. @humble sierra @lucid acorn

[humble sierra]

Yep

I'm just wondering if, before we see them as they are in-game, any of their clothing got infested too

Like when they initially started mutating

[proper barn]

Maybe?

Also I suspect some parts we think are metal are actually armor they can take off.

[lucid acorn]

can minerva take her pants off? with an entire leg being infested

[proper barn]

Based on what Quincy ajd Lettie say.

[proper barn]

Probably. She and Velamir talk about um being with each other when you get the good ending.

[lucid acorn]

flare doesnt look like they changed much

[brittle siren]

Their whole body literally just Temple lmao

[humble sierra]

Yeah we don't know what they looked like before the Helminth

[graceful swan]

Like David Bowie

[swift sentinel]

Temple's torso is different to Flare's. Flare is wearing a jacket, which has completely been subsumed on Temple.

[tall echo]

Ok ik it's "ooh creepy monster turned around the head" but imagine if the grineer subsumed into the charger just put on its armor backwards

[ashen pulsar]

I never noticed this lmao

[hushed bison]

Hey guys, so I installed the coalescent segment into the helminth and I got a line that said smth smth "for the children of the ancestor worm". Is there any clue on what the ancestor worm is? And by "children" the helminth is 100% referring to the tenno so how come we are related to it?

[humble sierra]

"Ah! A new agony! A new spasm! The cellular archive opens... kinship deepens... I shall craft, concentrate, concoct Serums for the children of the Ancestor Worm!"

Just guessing here, but maybe Ancestor Worm is what it calls the original Helminth strain? And thus the Warframes are its Children?

[ashen pulsar]

sounds like it is the helminth or smth, yeah

[tall echo]

The helminth doesn't call the tenno children

[graceful swan]

Other dialogue from the Helminth says this

Your warframe, my sacred kin

[dense salmon]

Yeah that is weird, doesn't that thing call us Demons?

[tall echo]

Yes

[graceful swan]

it’s not referring to us

Helminth sees Warframes as their
children

The Helminth we have probably isn't the Helminth but a Helminth

[dense salmon]

I'm about 90% sure there's no difference, unless that specific Coalescent Segment is another Helmith is what you mean

Like how Lizzie is 'A' Helmith despite her still being the Helmith

Also, sucks that she doesn't have anything to say to/about Nidus

[humble sierra]

It views the Tenno (Operators) as demons because we're probably 100% Void (which the Infestation is afraid of)

But it could view the Warframes as its Children

[graceful swan]

We aren't 100% Void we only got a piece of Wally

[humble sierra]

that was just hyperbole

[lilac aspen]

Considering how the infested refer to the frames as family or such

Children of the Ancestor Worm is referring to frames most likely, especially when it talks about serums, something helminth tends to Violently stab inject into frames to boost them.

Man
I can’t believe Infested are the extreme version of “Would you love me if I were a worm” scenario then

[strange turtle]

Would you still love me if I made you eat a pizza with cheese sauce, dark chocolate, chopped bacon, jalapeños and sea salt?

With a side of rusty bolts?

[hushed bison]

That does seem to be the case, but it's still interesting that our helminth referred to the original strain as a worm

[lilac aspen]

Well yes
If you think about it

Worm makes sense

The definition of Worm has many definitions and some fit the Infestation really well

[woven coyote]

I think everyone missed a key point

Coalescent fragment is about archon shards

Worms are a word that has been used a few times to describe sentients

[lilac aspen]

Damn
So it’s making stuff for the sentient funn-

Ah so that’s one way to get to Tau

[slow bramble]

I'm pretty sure it's canonical that "our" operator isn't the only one running around. Just the Lotus's surviving favorite (in the players specific timeline anyway) So there are multiple Helminths and Ordis is the same Cephalon copied onto every ship, proooobably swapping data when he connects into a relay?

[slow bramble]

Can you elaborate?

[graceful swan]

We are all the Chosen Operator but also not other Tenno probably have a different Cephalon we just don’t hear about them because we are the main character

[slow bramble]

My main dispute of that is that Ordis is ordered to love The Tenno, not [insertusernamehere]

[lilac aspen]

I mean
We used helminth to get to 1999

At this point all aboard the Helminth Train, the one breaking its back by carrying us once more

No but in a less silly way

[slow bramble]

LMAO ewwwwww just Using that things digestive tract as a tunnel aren't we?

[lilac aspen]

We gave it something that allowed it to work on sentient stuff

What if this means Helminth can now be used to fix sentient stuff. We have plenty of ruined Sentient stuff laying around for us to pick.

[swift steppe]

whats the lore around this big fish

its in poe

[slow bramble]

Do you have a better shot of its head?

Pretty clearly it beached itself on high tide but that's all I know

[swift steppe]

uh yes lemme just grab some glappid first and then imma take a screenshot of its ugly head

[lilac aspen]

Funny alien shark

DE please don’t add monster fish to fight my innate fear of only in game oceans will hate you for it

[swift steppe]

big dead fish

[lean garden]

feesh run ashore, feesh die, sad day for feesh

[swift steppe]

dont mind my frame and oxylus plz LMAO

he keeps getting in the way

[slow bramble]

Pretty sure it's a shark

[swift steppe]

yes but is there lore around it or is this just like

because DE wanted it?

[slow bramble]

It's set dressing,

[swift steppe]

what does that mean

[slow bramble]

Maybe set up for lore if the Plains were super popular and the whole game axis changed

[swift steppe]

oh i see

[lean garden]

it means its there like a coffee cup on a table

[swift steppe]

oh okay okay

i grabbed 2 glappid im happy

[slow bramble]

Set Dressing is super important and tbh it would be interesting if this was the reason Hai Luk is scared if the ocean

Also I can show you a really good fishing spot for Glappid

[swift steppe]

i mean id understand if shes or hes scared i forgor it they was a girl or a man

that shark is scary asl

[swift steppe]

no wayyyy where is it

[slow bramble]

Opposite side of the map waaaay behind Cetus there's a cove that's great for fishing sea animals

I'll circle the map once internet stops being dumb

[swift steppe]

alright!!

those fishies are hard to get smh

[slow bramble]

Once you get the Ebisu spear from Daughter it gets way easier

And Ivara

And the right dye and bait

Well
Dye is pretty straightforward

[swift steppe]

right dye? wdym

[slow bramble]

Warframe struck gold with how zen fishing is

YOU'RE NOT USING DYE?!
The blue stuff you throw in the water to make the fish glow

[swift steppe]

OH that yes yes i use that lol

[slow bramble]

Lmao

Okay so plenty of Blue dye, and then the right bait

[sage moat]

yknow i really really really thought we would never go to tau. but given the tennocon trailer... i can't be that confident anymore. the people in the comments are correctly pointing out a TON of sentient themed stuff in that trailer

[slow bramble]

I recommend using both Murkray and Glappid bait as both are super rare anyway
And then use Ivara's Dashwire to get above the Hotspot, and spear away

Along those lines I recommend Ivara Prime being a more simple farm

The cove allows multiple anchoring points

[brittle siren]

The Tennocon teaser show the Origin system and the Sun

[swift steppe]

okay i see thank you

[graceful swan]

And a Murex

[brittle siren]

TAU CONFIRMED

/s

[sage moat]

we also get that sentient themed armor and all those warframes taking a seat in a murex. im not saying we are going to tau im just saying that i can't be as confident that we're not

tau believers have an argument now that isn't "dude it'd be so cool"

my half-prediction half-hope is that what this actually is is a storyline about a rift between the narmer sentients and the hunhow sentients. maybe only one group can go to tau and we need to help it be hunhow and his sentient children instead of pazuul and his narmerified people

maybe wally gets involved, the stalker probably does, sentient liches maybe?

[normal mountain]

Tbh, was hoping for Orokin Liches before Sentient
But I have no real clue anymore how that would work, or why they'd do that

The Coda kind of broke my fledgling idea for them anyways

[strange turtle]

…do you mean like Orokin as in like, the Void Tower Corrupted?

[sage moat]

presumably

[normal mountain]

Yes
Formerly known as the Corrupted

[silk atlas]

About time they have some actual crumbs to cling onto.

[sage moat]

here's my pitches:
Sentient Adversaries are powerful sentients or maybe archons on the side of hunhow that were injected with a narmer virus to put them under narmer control (so they double up on the Sentient and Narmer factions, the way Coda are both infested and techrot)
Orokin liches are either surviving orokin like ballas (make it clear canonically that there's only a few) that you kill during each encounter but they always bodyswap OR just kuva liches/sisters of parvos under void tower control

[stiff fable]

The Lettie convo is right there lol

[silk atlas]

The what

[stiff fable]

But no seriously Murexes mean in-system Sentients

[stiff fable]

The convo where Lettie all but tells the player you'll be following Albrecht to Tau

[normal mountain]

The last one was my idea, but adding Infested Liches to that too
But, again, the Coda broke that portion of it

[stiff fable]

Also if we get Sentient Liches I want them to be Archons

And for them to steal your actual Warframe

[sage moat]

stalker doesn't need liches despite being his own faction, technically,
we don't need liches for "Unaffiliated/Wild"
so the only remaining factions that would really need liches are Murmur and Scaldra

[stiff fable]

Scaldra seems unlikely since they're not getting a huge pool of weapons

[sage moat]

true i don't think they're likely. and i dont know if they'll even continue the adversary system

from the start, the corpus, grineer, and infested were kinda the "big 3" factions. now we have an adversary for each.

[sage moat]

this argument can also be used against sentient and possibly orokin adversaries as well. unless you just think orokin adversaries would have tenno weapons that will never get a prime (or that they'll double up on some weapons, i guess?)

there's a lab for each of the big three, each one has near total control of several planets, each one has a true open world

im fine with the big three just staying the big three and never getting orokin, sentient/narmer, scaldra, and murmur adversaries. however it would be cool

[silk atlas]

"Orokin" would be super weird since there's already Prime, and if they need to make them stronger, there be Incarnons.

[normal mountain]

Maybe they'll have a selection of entirely new weapons?

[sage moat]

i mean orokin could drop new incarnon geneses so they don't have to gunk up the already super long rotation cycle

thats a possibility

[silk atlas]

They're making the Incarnon shop rotate to alleviate that slightly, thankfully.

[sage moat]

i love waiting a month for atomos incarnon...

[silk atlas]

My main rub is wondering how they would even be themed, because "Orokin" weapons would just be Prime.

I mean ig if they want to make new innate Incarnons like how we have Felarx and junk that are also Adversary weapons but then I would really wonder what DE's balance team is thinking

[sage moat]

im just saying you can pick some prime weapons that are still junk despite being prime and give them incarnons and then the adversaries just drop the genesis. no innate progenitor bonus like the other adversary systems

immediately coming to mind is Fang Prime

[silk atlas]

Ah that'd be kinda cool

[stiff fable]

That's correct of course but Sentients are the 4th "major" enemy faction and they'll be getting more content before long

[sage moat]

ehhhhhh

id consider orokin/corrupted to be the 4th major faction rather than sentient

the only place you can fight just sentients is like. kahl missions

[tall echo]

They have like one unique enemy

[sage moat]

yeah but they're far more prominent in the star chart

[tall echo]

Orphix and veil anomalies and lua survival....

[sly pagoda]

Tennocon trailer just dropped and it appears they are chumming the waters for something lorey

[tall echo]

You are late

[sage moat]

i meant "just sentients" as in they are the mission. orphix and veil anomalies have Other Stuff and lua survival is mostly corrupted

but this could just be due to sentients being stronger than your average enemy

which i think is part of why narmer was created! to be footsoldiers for missions that are supposed to have heavy sentient theming

[magic turtle]

Wouldn't sentients be classified in narmer now?

[sly pagoda]

its possible not all are onboard with it anymore

does not mean they wont be enemy, just not narmer faction

[sage moat]

nope! not in the codex

[graceful swan]

Not all Sentients are apart of Narmer

[magic turtle]

Noted

[stiff fable]

Corrupted are technically Orokin faction so they're not really going to have unique weapons

Like, Thrax enemies have more unique weapons than Corrupted do

[sage moat]

yeah there's way around that though i think

[stiff fable]

Plus corrupted are tied to primes since they spawn in relic missions

[sage moat]

that is true actually

[dire mountain]

Not inherently

All prime weapons are orokin but not all orokin weapons are prime

The Trumna is:
Orokin
Entrati
And has been Primed

Paracesis is Orokin but is NOT a prime

[restive river]

Hunhow and Lotus:

[restive river]

All warframes are orokin made and yet prime variants exist

[magic turtle]

To clarify, I meant the enemy types

[dire mountain]

Yes that too

[restive river]

I do think some of the sentients we fight are still from hunhow, the rest being fragments from Erra or Praghsa (we only fought Natah’s once iirc)
Also the eidolons aren’t based with Narmer

[magic turtle]

True

[tall echo]

Paracesis prime would be sick

[magic turtle]

Who would it even release with

[restive river]

Caliban

[dire mountain]

Venato

[strange turtle]

Ballasframe Prime

[magic turtle]

That's on me, I didn't think things through

[tall echo]

Orokin liches

[sly pagoda]

Got 99 problems but a lich aint one.

[magic turtle]

Theoretically speaking, could we attempt to explore the life of people who personally know the operator/drifter from after the zariman jump?

[woven coyote]

Uhhh like margulis?

[normal mountain]

Would be kinda neat if we had a major NPC Tenno that wasn't Rell

[proper barn]

What do you mean?

[magic turtle]

As in, they surely had friends before the jump didn't they?

What if we traveled to a time where they thought they lost us to the jump?

[proper barn]

They all died or are tenno now. I mean I guess Thrax counts lmao. Also it's kinda what the holdfasts are.

But they where more ship leadership.

[magic turtle]

I said before the zariman

The ship itself

[proper barn]

You said after

[magic turtle]

Where they used to live before that whole fiasco

[proper barn]

Also you said jump

[magic turtle]

Mb I couldn't communicate my meaning well

[proper barn]

So neither of the things you just said quite the opposite.

[magic turtle]

I meant friends he had pre zariman and learn how they coped after the jump

[lilac aspen]

By now anyone the Tenno might of known before the Zariman are long dead. Unless they figured out immortality

[magic turtle]

We could time travel no?

[proper barn]

Idk if they existed before then.

Like seemingly so many of them grew up and or completely lived on the ship.

[magic turtle]

As in can it be a possible plot point

[lilac aspen]

Considering how many hoops the drifter needed to take to go to 1999

Would it really be worth the effort when they’re needed in the present?

[magic turtle]

It's because of a concept Warframe I tried to make that I'm asking for feasibility

[woven coyote]

Of the two accounts we have of time travel we would need so many specific circumstances i dont think it would be possible

[dire mountain]

1999 and Lua rifts?

[magic turtle]

Hmmm maybe a void reality depicting that time then?

[woven coyote]

The one actual time machine we have is broken and the guy who made it ran away

[woven coyote]

Make that 3 lol
Going to 1999, kaya leaving 1999, lua spy

2 of those involve either infestation or the presence of drifter/operator as a beacon
And lua spy isnt in anyone's control

[tall echo]

That would be a strand of khra, which is kinda wally's secondary domain and thus not safe at all

[magic turtle]

Lemme get the ballas dialogue I made for the Warframe one sec

Ballas: "you chose to become one of us to see your beloved... You were once of the common folk, a child of nobility under us... Yet you chose immortality. Not for power, not for fear of death, but for the sake of seeing the one you long for. waiting for the day that ship that was lost to the void would surface again... And when that happened, your joy was crushed by the reality of things... The child became a devil. you were desperate to help him. Desperate to cleanse him of this horrible nightmare... What better way to cleanse a devil, than with an angel that commands that power .... Leliel...."

[swift steppe]

OMG YALL WHAT DO YOU THINK BALLS WILL SAY ABOUT ORAXIA

[old dome]

probably the same thing he said abt grendel

[swift steppe]

what did he say abt grendel again

[ashen pulsar]

Like in the prime trailer? I’m assuming “let us have monsters”

[swift steppe]

yeah

[tall echo]

You're like 4 years too early with that

[swift steppe]

sorry

[strange plinth]

tbf the same discussion about jade has happened multiple times

[strange turtle]

He will talk about how “disgusted” (scared) he was of a spider under his bed as a child, and rant about how awful the rest of the Orokin are for having him make this

The one frame to surpass Nekros

[swift steppe]

LMAO

i hate balls so much

[lilac aspen]

“How I loathed the process of making this vile, revolting beast. Too many legs, too many eyes. But the Seven insisted on the birth of this Mistress of nightmares.”

[brittle siren]

That would be stupid

Copy your warframe? Sure
Stealing your and not letting you using it? It worse that lost items or credit to them

Heck DE even nerf the "loss" system, reduce it to "a mole" on your wf neck

[brittle siren]

You mean they mainly only appear in 2 place (Lua and Void), and the Sentient literally have the the whole big quest related to them.

Also what the "Orokin" Liches gonna be? They literally just "corrupted" enemy from the existing faction

[sage moat]

two very good points!

if we're talking about adversaries though, i have ideas for both sentient and orokin liches!

[tall echo]

Tell

[sage moat]

my idea for sentient liches is that they're high ranking sentients under hunhow that are infested with a narmer virus to be put under pazuul's control. a way to keep hunhow involved in the goings on the way parvos and the worm queen are, without writing him away fully

or just archons! just a system of copying your warframe and putting a sentient head on it, boom your narmer/sentient liches

[tall echo]

More archon shards would be cool, there's still a lot of potential buffs they could do

[lilac aspen]

More flavors

[sage moat]

as for orokin, there's a simple idea of "liches from other factions being controlled by a void tower" but i like the idea of them being orokin that escaped the night of naga drums. maybe they're specifically some faction ballas started. they keep finding new bodies and you keep killing them just after they use some advanced form of the kuva ceremony to swap with someone some distance away

[tall echo]

Ballas wouldn't start another orokin faction

[sage moat]

if we assume the coda represent the infested and techrot factions, and the sentient adversaries would be sentient and narmer, that only leaves murmur, scaldra, unaffiliated, and stalker as factions without adversaries. and unaffiliated and stalker really don't need them they're barely their own factions. murmur and scaldra though id love to think something up

[tall echo]

Eeh, murmur and scaldra are very tiny factions compared to the others

[brittle siren]

I mean Orokin that escaped sound nice, but like, it sound weird because if someone would alive and well, Ballas would have know. And the amount of Liches spawn means tons of them still live make the whole point of us killing them... pointless

[sage moat]

that's a good point! which is why im more hesitant on that idea

[tall echo]

Nah, could be like the coda. Just a small selection but they keep coming back

[brittle siren]

And imagine convert them. 2 of the highest rank Orokin is despite us, logically we can't even convert them

[brittle siren]

The thing is, they are clone. They supposed to be infinite

[sage moat]

oh thats a REALLY good point! you can't convert them! scrap that idea, probably

[tall echo]

Do what with that idea

[sage moat]

GASP

[brittle siren]

The Sister kinda tube baby so

[sage moat]

the sisters aren't clones? the corpus just have a high population to draw from

[tall echo]

Yeh

[brittle siren]

Yeah all the Liches are make sense since they can literally made a new one

[brittle siren]

Nah you just create them from tube iirc

[tall echo]

Corpus don't clone, they just purpose-breed

[sage moat]

which is arguably worse!

[tall echo]

Which is arguably worse

[brittle siren]

I mean, they were born in a capitalist "family", they are not stolen from any family (until they does) (and Nef Anyo don't count)

[tall echo]

[brittle siren]

Orokin Liches only option is abomination that Orokin Empire made during their time

[sage moat]

and that'd be rad

[brittle siren]

Beside infested ofc

[tall echo]

MYRMIDON

Orokin liches could be myrmidons

Like the dude from ivara's leverian

[sage moat]

elaborate, i haven't read it

[tall echo]

He's literally made to hunt warframes and looks like a caricature of an orokin

[sage moat]

oh thats true that's easy

myrmidons that awoke recently in response to... something. whatever the latest lore event is at time of introduction.

sentient liches are what i said
murmur liches can just be runaway void angels or warframes controlled by wally (since we can probably assume albrecht had more than just qorvex lying around)

[tall echo]

Ballas woke them up

He hated the orokin, but not their tools

[sage moat]

oh yeah that'd definitely work if we make them a side quest after TNW instead of something continuing the current storyline

and scaldra liches... maybe scaldrans that followed neci into the void? we'd have to wait for isleweaver to get more scaldra and rusalka lore for me to really know what to do there.

[tall echo]

Scaldra needs more development for liches to work tbh

[sage moat]

this is all hypothetical, i can totally see them just ending the system with coda, or maybe with sentient adversaries.

[sage moat]

yep! i'd be interested in seeing it though

my crackpot prediction for isleweaver is that the scaldra are going to invade duviri and maybe even the origin system and become a bigger threat

[tall echo]

They have some of my favorite enemy designs so I kinda want more

[tall echo]

Isleweaver is prob gonna have murmur based on the mini teaser from the extra dev devstream

[sage moat]

thats true

[tall echo]

New murmur enemy with duviri in its placeholder name, very strong hint there

Definitely gonna show up on mars

[sage moat]

i could see the tie between scaldra and murmur getting much closer if rusalka's plotline doesn't just end in isleweaver

and then we could even get an adversary system of some, idk, Scaldra Amalgam with the murmur. knock down two factions at once

[tall echo]

Aaa I have so much to look forward to in the next few weeks it's overwhelming

More duviri, new pc, a sword

Such good stuff

[tall echo]

That'd be cool

[sage moat]

what the tennocon trailer inspired in me was the desire for a sort of secondary plotline. some rift between the hunhow sentients and narmer sentients

maybe only one can go back to tau, and we need to do our best to make sure tau isn't invaded by narmer and hunhow gets to go home

[dense salmon]

I guess we're going back to the Sentients. At least we get more Operator stuff, oh I hope we get more Lotus Stuff

[sage moat]

ehhh??

we might be?

my guess is resolving pazuul and hunhow in some manner

but i don't think it'll be a super major part. i think we're getting isleweaver and then sort of an unnesessary side story, like a continuation of jade shadows more than a new continuation of the void arc. at least thats my hope

[dense salmon]

Hopefully we get more actual Sentient characters

[tall echo]

I read that last bit of the first sentence as super mario kart for a sec

[dense salmon]

Although if we are going to Tau, there's a chance we might get more Railjack, urgh

[sage moat]

tau believers now have something to actually argue their point with

i still don't believe it im a tau denier

[normal mountain]

Hopefully Hunhow rips Pazuul's head off so Erra can have his body and mind back

[sage moat]

i think erra is GONE gone

rip pazuul's head off now you just have a sentient corpse

[normal mountain]

I mean, Lotus talks about Nira keeping Erra's consciousness under control
If he was gone gone, there'd be no need

[sage moat]

i haven't seen that line but if that does exist disregard what i was saying

[normal mountain]

I could find it, but I gotta walk a 17 year pupper

[tall echo]

Tau is in sight

[tall echo]

Rj is great tho

[normal mountain]

"Who whispered dreams of dominion into Pazuul's ear? Who keeps Erra suppressed and tormented with dilusions? The stench of Nira's venom is upon this, Tenno."

• Lotus, during the Archon Nira assassination

[dense salmon]

I don't think it explicitly means that Nira is 'controlling' him. But it implies that she was the one to seduce Erra to either turn Archon or go Narmer in the first place.

Also who the hell is Pazuul

Why did he just come out of nowhere

[normal mountain]

The Ram
The Fourth Archon, but the one we never actually face

[dense salmon]

[lean garden]

there's also the lines where lotus talks about how theres two minds in pazuul

[normal mountain]

And hilariously, Daughter asks that same question in Veilbreaker

[tall echo]

Come on the general opinion on rj is outdated

[sage moat]

oh hey there's that motif again! characters with "multiple minds"!

i don't think warframe is necessarily a DID metaphor but it works pretty alright as one

[normal mountain]

It does lol

[lean garden]

Don't think this one can be counted as a DID rep since its uh

like possession in this specific case

Like nobody looking at Supernatural with Cass possessing that dudes body as DID rep

[dense salmon]

The most common opinion on Railjack can be summed up as "I got exactly what I asked for in Corpus Railjack and hated it".

[sage moat]

yeah not the pazuul one its just part of the greater motif in warframe about identity and trauma

lotus works pretty well though. id argue flare and lizzie are explicit and intended, even.

[tall echo]

[normal mountain]

A fair assessment
The only thing that really annoys me about Grineer Railjack is that I can't tell what mission it will be prior to starting it

I personally love Railjack

[dense salmon]

Suprised wr don't have a Hydra Warframe yet

[lean garden]

For Flare and Lizzies case, youre referring to the part where she takes over their body yes? How does that fare in light of her having her own repeatedly contructed body?

[normal mountain]

How would they even pull that off tbh?

[tall echo]

Flizzie isn't really multiple minds though

[lean garden]

whatever they do for oraxia, apply to head instead of feet

[dense salmon]

It's two minds at the least

[normal mountain]

...

[dense salmon]

It is still two different identities vying for control, eventually resulting in a fair compromise between the two that shares eachothers pain to sooth it

[tall echo]

There must be people with very conflicting feelings about oraxia

[normal mountain]

Come to think about it, I haven't seen NullRhea in a while
Wonder what they think about Oraxia

[dense salmon]

It baffles me sometimes how common and how extreme Arachnophobia is for the general population

[tall echo]

I don't even remember who that is but I vaguely recognize the name

[sage moat]

i have no idea! i think its probably just a way to make it more interesting and add some flavor, but of course you can also read flare's alter being their literal guitar as a statement on how trauma, identity, and art are intrinsically linked. i just dont know how much thats intended versus me reading too much into it

[normal mountain]

NullRhea has expressed being an arachnophobe
Why I bring them up

[sage moat]

flare is my favorite protoframe i snatched the bundle the instant i started playing again

[normal mountain]

also, I don't remember what pronouns Null uses

[sage moat]

no one will fault ya for just using they/them until you see otherwise

[tall echo]

Prob just reading too much into it

[normal mountain]

Used to hang out in the 1999 and Techrot Encore channels

Ran into them several times during that period

Don't remember if I saw Null anywhere else though...

[stray herald]

Maybe isleweaver may have oraxia weaving the lost islands of duviri

[humble sierra]

I think they mentioned something about her being on Scholar's Landing for her fight.

[normal mountain]

Yes, she's in Scholar's Landing

[humble sierra]

Considering that it's an island tied to Albrecht, maybe MITW brought it?

[nocturne valve]

How much time has passed since the Orokin fell?

[normal mountain]

An excellent question
Just like "how long after 1999 did the Orokin Empire rise?"

[nocturne valve]

Wow, that's an interesting quistion. Lol

[humble sierra]

The answer to both is "DE will probably never tell us"

They've kept it intentionally vague

[nocturne valve]

From the Jade shadows quest, i remember it being thousands of years? From what Ballas says in Jade's shrine at Teshin's

[spice spade]

chat how does this affect the lore?

[normal mountain]

And since Teshin has been alive all this time, and out of cryosleep no less
That makes him... how old, exactly?

[nocturne valve]

Varzia too. How old are they?

[normal mountain]

Varzia did do a cryosleep though
Maroo found her

[nocturne valve]

Probably thousands of years

[normal mountain]

Teshin, however, explicitly says he was awake the entire time

[nocturne valve]

Dax are immortal or something? Or the worm Queens kept him alive

[normal mountain]

You know, I could see that
The Queens keeping Teshin alive to be their paper boy when needed

[swift steppe]

all i know is that varzia is thirsty for teshin AND maroo

i call her maroo's girlfriend

[humble sierra]

She is

[tropic dagger]

Is techrot older version of infestation or somethink else

[proper barn]

the first thing.

[tropic dagger]

Thanks

[stray herald]

Literally have items in 1999 have the prefix “proto-infested”

[hybrid silo]

After the drifter and the hex member successfully disable the bomb why does the drifter keep the timeloop?

[lean garden]

You say that like he can control if the loop persists or not

[hybrid silo]

He can't?

[lean garden]

Why would he? He didnt make the loop

[hybrid silo]

Then what did?

[lean garden]

Albrecht

the loop was already there thanks to albrecht

looping 31st Dec over and over and over

[hybrid silo]

Oh

[feral cape]

Because he needs to make the timeline stick

[strange plinth]

the email from arthur after the finale ends explains why

[brittle siren]

Could you quote that piece of msg?

[strange plinth]

You still need to keep the loop going, though, don't you? Because it's not enough to put things right, is it. We need to keep them right.
Soldiers against the tide. Now and forever.
the relevant piece at least

[brittle siren]

just a hypothetical, if Wally is beaten or he finally give up on invading the real reality, do we even need to keep the loop on?

[ashen pulsar]

hypothetical

[brittle siren]

credit to discord auto correct 🥀

[ashen pulsar]

lol

I often use my phone's dictate to talk and it's so ass, I get it

[graceful swan]

The loop isn’t as simple as just stopping Wally

[brittle siren]

so what are the other reasons?

[graceful swan]

Stopping the nuke going off and killing all of Hollvania permanently

The loop wasn’t there to stop Wally it was there so the Hex didn’t fully transform

[brittle siren]

oh ok

but then how are they in the version of the normal flowing time

since Flare eventually become Temple

[lean garden]

time still flows

its just that one section that repeats

[brittle siren]

I mean the Hex in the normal timeline

are they still gonna become fully warframe like Flare

[lean garden]

if they live that long probably

[brittle siren]

if so why the loop matter then

[lean garden]

because the loop is determining what moves forward into normal time

Are you familiar with video editing software?

[brittle siren]

only a bit, so not really

though what I mean is: the loop was suppose to make because of Wally right? So if Wally stop making a mess, then we could just stop the loop after the reactor was stop

just hypothetical

[lean garden]

Ok so imagine you have a video youre working on, a neat little story to show your friends and family

Theres a section right in the middle that youre still trying to edit it, certain scenes you want to keep or cut.

Which scene you keep/cut will heavily affect how the rest of the video is understood.

[brittle siren]

but for example, if I did finished all the possible editing on that part, why bother changing it again when the result is already set?

Flare still gonna be Temple fully, everyone gonna die by old age, Orokin still exist etc

and in what if scenario, Wally does not messing with the Origin System anymore, keeping 1999 on loop is more or less a torture to EVERYTHING in that loop, not just the Hex

[lean garden]

the main takeaway is that changing something within the loop affects things moving forward, this you understand yes?

[brittle siren]

yes

[lean garden]

ok now the loop is independently running

drifter cant shut it down

so drifter needs to keep it right over and over again

[brittle siren]

oh I see

that make more sense

talking about this make me impatient about new Isleweaver lore

[sly ibex]

I'm actually getting a bit tired of time shenanigans. It was interesting in Duviri, and even still kind of is in 1999, but I tend to hate time travel/looping in media lol

[humble sierra]

Well after enough loops, I'm sure anyone will get tired of it

https://tenor.com/view/duviri-paradox-warframe-dominus-dominus-thrax-gif-10048032957248030215

[tall echo]

I'm kinda disappointed by duviri, it didn't really utilize the whole time loop concept. At all.

[humble sierra]

Quest could've done with one or two more loops

[tall echo]

It loops when you die but that's kinda just to be expected?

[strange turtle]

What’s the sword?

[tall echo]

Oh I just got a 50€ sword off a sword selling site in my country because I wanted a sword

[lean garden]

Dont worry, not much time shenanigans left

[regal torrent]

So is everything just a consequence of humans? Did they make everything? There's no extraterrestrials right?

[brittle siren]

Wally is the only extraterrestrial thing

Even though he indirectly created from Albrecht mind

[strange turtle]

Sentients were created by the Orokin, who are just humans that liked to body mod, and the Infestation is a mix of just kind of there and modified by human factions

[sage moat]

whether or not wally is truly extraterrestrial is an interesting question

im of the opinion that wally was essentially directly created by albrecht

to really simplify my thoughts,
The void is a mirror.
Nothing was in the void until albrecht opened a hole to it, and he looked in. Look into a mirror, you get a reflection. Albrecht looked into the void, he got wally

[brittle siren]

But, when I said "direct" here, I was talking about "create sth on PURPOSE"

Like 1000% Albrecht have no intention nor expected the void would made sth out from his mind

Like Sentients was directly made by the Orokin

But Wally? He just an accident

The finger too, is an accident

[sage moat]

oh yeah for sure

but you described him as extraterrestrial, which i dont know the accuracy of

[brittle siren]

He was made from the void no?

That's enough for him to be extraterrestrial

[sage moat]

eehhhhhh?

kinda??

[brittle siren]

Also since he just reflect Albrecht image only (he kinda the only void made entity that can shapeshift), he not really a copy of Abrecht

He just like a mimic

A child mimic

He kinda remind me of Amethyst in Steven Universe. She just mimic everyone she see

[sage moat]

albrecht's box...

[brittle siren]

Then slowly form a personality for herself

[brittle siren]

What about it? (You mean the bell?)

[sage moat]

no you described wally as a "mimic" and i was reminded of the meme song "Jackie's Box" about fnaf, goofy song

[sage moat]

havent seen steven universe in ages but taht sounds accurate

[normal mountain]

probably more extradimensional than extraterrestrial, but that's semantics at this point

[brittle siren]

No please do not remind me that 😭

[brittle siren]

Oh yeah that make more sense

He literally not even from our reality

[normal mountain]

Xactly!

[sage moat]

also i find it interesting that wally uses he/him. like its actually in the KIM, the drifter uses he/him for wally.

which may just be a symptom of the fandom largely using he/him but also could be because wally was initially a reflection of albrecht

[brittle siren]

Tbh I never seen Wally even mention his pronoun

Like the first time we know that Wally is he/him is from Loid

[normal mountain]

Always refers to himself in the first person
like a chump

not telling us his pronouns
jerk

[sage moat]

yeah but it'd be a really weird plotline if wally had our warframe by the throat in The Big Quest At The End of This Arc and as the music ramps up and this sense of dread fills us wally said...
"you guys have been using the wrong pronouns for me i actually use she/her" and then threw us off a cliff

[normal mountain]

Be funnier in my mind if Wally used it/its, but that works

[sage moat]

i considered writing it/its but figured that was too expectable

[normal mountain]

...maybe Wally pronouns are in Voidtongue

[brittle siren]

Though Loid called Wally "it" at first

[brittle siren]

Tbh his voice is male voice all the time even in void tongue

[sage moat]

nope

he uses this same voice as your operator!

[brittle siren]

No the voice when he appear in New War

Not the normal english voice

[sage moat]

that voice is... i mean you can call it masculine

you can say that's a masculine voice if you'd like. i'd describe it more as "inhuman entirely"

[brittle siren]

Ah no, only Albrecht call Wally as "him"

[sage moat]

and the drifter in kim messages!

[brittle siren]

Drifter heard first from Albrecht so

[sage moat]

that would make sense yeah

[brittle siren]

Albrecht Entrati: "If I had remained in the Deimos laboratory, Loid would never have been safe from… Him. You know of what I speak. And so I retreated to the only place in history where that entity could not easily follow. To draw His greedy eye away from Loid."

[sage moat]

oh yeah i forgot that line

its funny i saw a comment on the tennocon thing saying De better not "go woke go broke"

ticker loid albrecht varzia maybe maroo every hex member possibly the drifter depending on personal story and even BALLAS possibly

this is interesting from the yareli prime trailer, ballas says he would've worn yareli's face had she not been so rebellious (iirc)

[proper barn]

They've been woke forever. We fight capitalists.

Most of the fandom is like lgtb+ peeps.

[sage moat]

which means ballas is like perfectly fine being a woman and i think that's cool. you go dude. also i hope your death was super painful i hate you. but not because of that.

[normal mountain]

Orokin are weird
They seem to care more about beauty than gender

[silk atlas]

Doesn't really matter when you can mod and change bodies in a snap

[brittle siren]

Still hate ppl misuse the word "woke" so much

[proper barn]

That's not werid. Also I more assume Ballas would have made Yarelis human look like him no matter his squishies.

[proper barn]

This and the drifter conversation like proves gender isn't real and doesn't matter.

[sage moat]

what drifter conversation?

[proper barn]

Okay so

[graceful swan]

KIM

[restive river]

Lines like that are pretty blurry anyway, when you get down to it.

^from the drifter convo

[proper barn]

Drifter and Quincy can talk about like "oh Hey you use warframes with different genders all the time" and you say like "oh yeah it's a fluid thing" which yeah.

[sage moat]

yeah that tracks

imagining a trans tenno starting to pilot a female warframe and going "oh i like this. oh"

transference into nyx and getting gender euphoria like "???"

[proper barn]

the tenno/drifter can just fully change how they look and their voices so you know.

[normal mountain]

The other option is to say that it's the least weird part about it
the direction I took because of personal reasons

[silk atlas]

Think that's just a gameplay mechanic, minus the Refleca kit or whatever it was for the blue skin

[normal mountain]

the silence here is killing me
Look, the only problem I have with the whole 'pick your gender' concept is that most people use stereotypes to judge whether they are or aren't one gender or another
Like, "if you like pink and play with dolls, then you must be a girl"

It ain't true

I'm a guy, I know I'm a guy, and I do like pink. I also used to play with dolls when I was younger (and the reason I don't now has more to do with puberty than anything)

Apologies for the speel there
Think I might have been keeping that cooped up for too long

Soooo

Lore?

[proper barn]

oh when i said gender doesn't matter it's more be whatver you want to be weither that is a masc woman or feminine man whatever. Also i can tell you from people i know the reason they indenitfy with a gender or being gender fluid or anything is deeper than that.

i promise.

[proper barn]

also you are thinking about it in such i binary way. Open your mind to other possibilities that gender and even sexuality is a spectrum there's no right or wrong way to be anything. it's literally all about self identity and what you feel like you are not like society or whatever It's you look inside yourself and decide.

also @normal mountain no one will ever get upset if you talk about this stuff from a good place i promise you. also people figure it out as they go there's not like one true answer. you just said that you are different than you where as a kid that's true for anyone.

[proper barn]

do you have any lore questions? lmao.

[white goblet]

how does natah have a mother??

[normal mountain]

I wouldn't think of it in biological terms tbh

Natah has a mother and father who raised her, and a brother she grew up with

[thorn meadow]

I don't get this lore discussion

[white goblet]

but i thought that lotus was creatred for the express purpose of infiltration... so she grew up?

[normal mountain]

We don't really know enough about Sentients to say much more than that
or at least I don't

[proper barn]

do you have a lore question?

[proper barn]

well seemingly it's cuz Pergesha and hunhow Worked together to make her. I mean she's a new like "type" of sentient.

[normal mountain]

Yes
That doesn't mean she was an expert at infiltration from the start
She still had to learn

[proper barn]

Compared to the others a Mimic.

like the other mimics come from her.

[white goblet]

so shes like a sentient crossbreed?

[proper barn]

or did.

[thorn meadow]

No

[proper barn]

well i would be able to answer any lore question if you did have one. @thorn meadow

that answer might be "we don't know"

but it would be an answer lmao.

[normal mountain]

Praghasa and Hungow working together to make her...
Now that's an idea I hadn't thought of
now I have an image of those two in a garage putting Natah together

[proper barn]

lmao.

we know they are like "BIRTHED"

cuz of Pazuul.

[normal mountain]

But aside from that brief silliness, I think that works

[thorn meadow]

What are your qualifications for lore accuracy?

[proper barn]

seemingly most of them only have 1 parent

[normal mountain]

They designed and built Natah together

[proper barn]

except Natah.

[white goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/let's-have-a-baby-i-love-you-robots-baby-delivery-baby-maker-making-babies-gif-16995232990683925299

[normal mountain]

That is literally the exact scene I had in mind
I kid you not, the exact scene

[white goblet]

I have a P.H.D. in Void Metaphysics. You can ask me.

[proper barn]

uhhhhh I was right about Stalker and hunhow working with us and us beating wally with love and some other 3rd thing i don't remember. like years before they came out.

[white goblet]

Great minds LMAO

[thorn meadow]

Walmart?

Corporate greed?

[proper barn]

man in the wall.

that's coprus.

[white goblet]

where are you in the story btw?

[thorn meadow]

Why is he in a wall, is it a han solo reference

[proper barn]

no it's cuz albretch saw him through a hole in a wall and also Rell hears him "tapping" on the wall.

[white goblet]

to be fair, he also is in a wall according to new war

[proper barn]

he was also on top of it.

[white goblet]

this is true

so we call him wally

[thorn meadow]

which wall and who's albrect

[proper barn]

also the Drifter stuff says he is actually "STUCK" in the wall and we don't know what that is or means

[white goblet]

ok... I ask again. where are you in teh story?

[normal mountain]

You need to do more quests

[proper barn]

or what it does but it makes him less powerfull.

[white goblet]

You should really experience the quests before exnaging in lore discussions bro

[thorn meadow]

Why are they drifting in a wall..

[proper barn]

drifter

not drifting.

[white goblet]

i think the wall is both metaphorically the void and literally the appearence of wally

[thorn meadow]

Drifter is drifting aren't they

[proper barn]

idk but the drifter says it's stopping them and makes them less powerful.

[proper barn]

no. where are you in the story?

[thorn meadow]

1999

[white goblet]

...........

[proper barn]

HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW WHO ALBRETCH IS?

[white goblet]

yall im kinda callin cap

[thorn meadow]

[proper barn]

albretch is in the quest

[white goblet]

🧢

[thorn meadow]

I'm going to be honest, I was pulling your leg

[normal mountain]

Some people just don't pay attention to cutscenes btw

[proper barn]

lmao

[white goblet]

congrats ur very funny ig

[proper barn]

oh Communi i DM-ed you about something

[white goblet]

ok next question, how exactly is prghasa a carpenter and hunhow a farmer?

[thorn meadow]

I imagine their tau system roles were those

[normal mountain]

Roles on Tau, ig
Before they went military

[white goblet]

ahhh fair fair fair

[proper barn]

Perghasa consumes things to make stuff. like she consumes Ships to power stuff/make things? Hunhow is more of a seemingly terraforming senteint.

or even if you want he is a farmer cuz he has more fragments?

[thorn meadow]

Sentients were supposed to be terraformers, but they went rogue. Understandably

[proper barn]

Pergasha we know why she's called a carpenter

we can see it. she can consume matter and then do other stuff with it.

[thorn meadow]

Reasonable crashout on the sentient's part

[white goblet]

oh for sure the orokin were all around bad

[thorn meadow]

I mean the Orokin built a weakness into them, and then sent them through a tube in space made of said weakness

[proper barn]

The orokin wanted them to all die while building the solar rail.

but they didnt.

[thorn meadow]

Gave them robotic cancer

[proper barn]

also maybe

the Orokin attacked first? MAYBE?

that's just kinda what the reapers lament kinda implies

but we aren't sure.

[thorn meadow]

Hopefully tennocon reveals TAU info

I want to see Caliban prime reveal

[proper barn]

i don't think we are going to tau i think we are doing way more narmer stuff this year and stuff around sentients but not going to tau yet.

[thorn meadow]

Will Caliban be a new age prime like lavos and rev, or an old age prime like most others?

Lavos primed himself

[silk atlas]

We have no idea

Caliban was made in the Old War so nothing's off the table

[thorn meadow]

Caliban feels like they'd will themselves prime, or other sentient in tau would have reverse engineered the archon's host bodies to make him

The Archon theory is my guess

[proper barn]

Rev isn't new age was around in the old war.

just wasn't based on anything kinda.

[thorn meadow]

The definition of new age I'm using is, ballas didn't make them

Rev prime made themselves

[blazing cloak]

Yeah. I'm so excited for TAU

[proper barn]

hmmmmmm

sure.

@thorn meadow where are you actually in the story?

[thorn meadow]

1999

Said so

[thorn meadow]

You can see this in revenant prime's trailer

[thorn meadow]

Why?

[proper barn]

so i can know

where to tell you to find some of the lore.

[thorn meadow]

Why do you need to know

[proper barn]

if you where actually in 1999 i could tell you where to go to see albretchs logs about wally.

[thorn meadow]

I know about the Pom Pc

[proper barn]

that's not

what i am talking about.

[thorn meadow]

I know about the necralisk requiem thingies

[proper barn]

yeah

that tells you about like the origin of wally and even void travel.

[thorn meadow]

I'm not a lore noob, was trolling you earlier

[normal mountain]

'Albretch'?
I feel like that misspelling was intentional

[proper barn]

it's the dyslexia

[normal mountain]

Oh

[thorn meadow]

Albretch is fitting

New community name

[proper barn]

lmao

[proper barn]

oh okay.

shRug.

[thorn meadow]

I wanted to disrupt the earlier topic

[proper barn]

sure.

do you mean natah or before that? cuz before that we where done talkin about that.

[thorn meadow]

before that

[proper barn]

yeah we where done.

oh you are in the preludes cord.

[thorn meadow]

preludes cord?

[proper barn]

yes

look at mutal servers on my profile.

[thorn meadow]

Oh soulframe

I played it once, I had a key from duviri

Made my account when they released the website

[tall echo]

The albretching netch

[sage moat]

what other frames might have weird primes

caliban could be a normal prime or some experimental sentient-crafted whatever whatever. kullervo? i could see kullervo being a weird prime

[ashen pulsar]

Excalibur umbra cyte

[sage moat]

cyte-09! correct

temple is an easy pick and i have my own theory

[ashen pulsar]

Cyte prime would be awesome tho

[sage moat]

i imagine he'd be decked out like a general since he has that soldier aesthetic

[ashen pulsar]

I would love to see it

Give him a cloak, boots, shoulder pads

[sage moat]

oraxia, depending on her lore, could have a cool prime

[strange plinth]

citrine maybe

[sage moat]

citrine could yeah

[hexed oxide]

jade

[sage moat]

oh jade for sure

a lot can be super simple "the void did it" but what would you do for jade?

[hexed oxide]

oof

uhm

attempt at making a more brutal execution method than the jade light ?

[restive river]

Alternately
The tenno who pilotted Jade got rewarded for Jade’s exploits and thus a prime was made for them

[sage moat]

both good ideas

[strange plinth]

don't remember who came up with it but i liked the idea of jade being prime originally but it was "leeched" out of her during the whole,, lay down for a thousand years to have a baby bit

[lilac aspen]

Don’t forget they could simply just be
Primed now or something

Instead of needing some primed past

[restive river]

How

[lilac aspen]

Shrug
M a g i c

[restive river]

:p

[strange plinth]

kinda messes with the void relic acquisition process tho

[restive river]

We watched the guy die who made them

[lilac aspen]

We get our Lavos Prime to prime them for us

[hexed oxide]

didn't lavos prime himself like, recently ?

[restive river]

He primed himself likely during the old war

[restive river]

I don’t know where you’re getting the idea he did it recently but yes, he did do it himself

Primes are part of the relic system, which means that all primes were during the time of the old war.

[sage moat]

but it didn't take, so we had to make him die again

[restive river]

Bur it did take?
We watched the Lotus kill him

[lilac aspen]

Ballas needs to die
Again again again

WALLY
I’d like to make another deal real quick

[hexed oxide]

"your finger for his suffering"

[restive river]

Warden:

[sage moat]

i mean we tried killing him during so the sacrifice, didn't take, so the lotus had to kill him in TNW

[restive river]

You get: all of reality
We get: to kill balls more

[restive river]

Only reason it didn’t take is because the lotus took him to get amalgamated

[lilac aspen]

He must die even more
Wally I will give you reality for more Ballas suffering

It’ll be funny

[normal mountain]

He'd probably give you an advance on Ballas suffering if you phrase it exactly like that: "It'll be funny"

[sage moat]

i know the ship has long long LONG sailed but if they remade warframe from the ground up i think it would be neat if each adversary type had 2-3 "prime" warframes. So say hildryn and frost prime are Tenet Hildryn and Tenet Frost, and sisters have a chance to drop a blueprint instead of/alongside their weapon when vanquished

[ashen pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-gif-22485536

[sage moat]

i just like the adversary system a whole awful lot.

oh i just got an idea for orokin adversaries GRAHHHHH hire me DE i will not code and i will barely write but i will have many Ideas

[ashen pulsar]

UwU j-just condemn him to eternal suffering for me pwease?

[normal mountain]

An interesting idea
That sounds frigging painful to farm

[ashen pulsar]

👉 👈

[lilac aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/stalker-warframe-what-bubson-gierczak-gif-24504035

[sage moat]

imagine orokin adversaries don't have their own weapons for obvious reasons, they instead drop a relic bundle.

[hexed oxide]

someone in my clan gave me warning for suggesting making equinox prime's farm the same as normal equinox (day aspect prime, night aspect prime)

[normal mountain]

LOL

[sage moat]

that way instead of having to look up on the wiki "where get lith y1" you can just go pop a few adversaries and get a nice collection of every type of relic.

[normal mountain]

That actually makes some sense
Maybe they could also have some special extra rare relics that have guaranteed rare parts when cracked

[restive river]

Iirc you can see relic locations in game too

[sage moat]

oh hey i just learned styanax is a bug

[normal mountain]

Bug like glitch, or bug like Rhino Deathwatch?

[sage moat]

bug like rhino deathwatch

[normal mountain]

🪲

[sage moat]

you see, styanax is a genus of weevils. therefore, styanax is a bug

[normal mountain]

A weevil bug
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[sage moat]

bug frames include:
Titania
Rhino
Nidus
Oberon (by marriage)
Styanax
Oraxia (soon)

[normal mountain]

yes, you may groan at the pun
it was bad on purpose

[normal mountain]

Oberon has his Feyarch skin

[hexed oxide]

oraxia better have a leverian or smth of that caliber

[sage moat]

yes i own the feyarch skin

possibly ash

more research is needed on the bugness of ash

[hexed oxide]

[ash locust helmet]

[normal mountain]

She'll likely have some lore via Acrithis
assuming Acrithis will be selling her parts, and Thrax won't be a permanent resident of the Dormizone

[past halo]

I think Tennocon may answer the question on the Archon Hunt excavation missions, what is Pazuul trying to make with all that cryotic

[hexed oxide]

thrax will be in the dormizone ?

[sage moat]

a biiiiiiig ice cream cone

[sage moat]

teshin's cave, i believe

[misty helm]

Vauban Prime

[hexed oxide]

if that's the case then i want some obscure fact about her, like loid mentions dante asking to inspect a copy of his skull

[normal mountain]

We get stuff like that about Kullervo, so why not?

Maybe Acrithis (or whoever sells her parts) will have known Oraxia before she went mad

[brittle siren]

Also funny Kaya said "oh Eternalism" when we transference outside of her

[restive river]

She says “eternalism, woo!” Iirc

[brittle siren]

ah ye

[swift steppe]

when will we get dino frame

[tall echo]

Why dino when we already have dragon?

[swift steppe]

why wouldnt we have a dino frame

dragon and dino are NOT the same thing

[tall echo]

Dragon btter

[swift steppe]

but dino is cool too

[tall echo]

What abilities would a dino frame even have

Roar, stomp, bite?

[swift steppe]

thats a really good question

something really obscure

yk what nevermind

i give up

[tall echo]

Rhino

Rhino is already dino

[swift steppe]

doesnt look like one

[tall echo]

He has the abilities

Two of the dino abilities I said were literally rhino abilities

[swift steppe]

yeah

so were getting spider frame

we got cat frame

dog frame?

birb frame?

do we have a lizard frame

[tall echo]

Dragon

Snake

[tall echo]

What

[swift steppe]

isnt voruna a dog

[tall echo]

Wolf

[swift steppe]

thats basically the same shit

[tall echo]

Not entirely but close enpugh

I'm missing my typos it's time that I sleep

[swift steppe]

well what would be different

from voruna if we get a dog frame

[restive river]

Iirc the devs said that doesn’t really fit anywhere atm but
We shall see

[tall echo]

We already have dogs

Dogframe would just copy them

[swift steppe]

BRO

bro we got kavats those are cats

we got cat frames aka khora and inaros

[tall echo]

Dogs don't have as much variety as cats

[restive river]

Valkyr:

[tall echo]

Inaros?

[swift steppe]

oh and valkyr too

[restive river]

Inaros can summon sand kavats

[swift steppe]

ddoesnt he spawn kavats with his ability or somehting

thats cat related it counts in my book

[tall echo]

That's not the same as being designed to be a cat

[restive river]

Khora is also like
A spider in theme, somewhat, she traps and ensares, she has a sorta web, I can see it in her design but it’s more vague

[restive river]

Oh 100%

[swift steppe]

shes both?