lore-discussion

[neon pilot]

Makes sense

[proper barn]

Cuz certain one's feel even more connections to like batch mates. See

The sisters I forget their names

[tall echo]

As bröthers

[proper barn]

From the sabotages

[proper barn]

Brothers and sisters but yeah.

[neon pilot]

Thank you for indulging my inquiries :b

[tall echo]

Mainly brothers bc the sisters have a higher rank

[proper barn]

Does the sister In like

Khals camp have some smitten Lines about like

Kalya DE thame.

[tall echo]

Do they talk?

I've only ever heard soup man talk

[barren jasper]

yeah everyone there talks

[proper barn]

This is just cute.

[proper barn]

Doesn't khal say he loves all his brothers cuz brothers family?

He might say that.

[neon pilot]

Ah

[old dome]

who's olvar d??

[proper barn]

Corpus soilder in the camp

[old dome]

:0000

...ok FINE im gonna do the kahl missions

[blissful merlin]

It’s worth it

[lilac aspen]

Olvar D
Must be the cousin of Alad V

[proper barn]

i think this is how most coprus are cataloged.

[viscid scroll]

Whats the lore behind female grineer

[graceful swan]

They’re female
That’s it

[strange plinth]

yeah they're just a separate clone template
given, they seem to be a little stronger and bigger than their male counterparts, but that's probably just part of the hierarchy stuff the grineer have going on

[graceful swan]

It’s not a hierarchy thing just some female Grineer were made with a taller template and the guardians were made with a sumo wrestler type template hence the strength

If Grineer had special treatment for a specific gender there would be much less Males in high ranking positions and that just isn’t the case

[brittle siren]

It's funny that 3 Orokin we ever met (beside Albrecht) are so confident in their tech (that prevent the Warframe and the OP from harming them) and in the end they lose horribly

[swift sentinel]

None of them had dealt with a free Tenno before hand

[brittle siren]

I mean
I could imagine 3 of them have deal with some of the Tenno
Since Alad V could

[swift sentinel]

Specifically, Tenno post-War Within, with full memories and powers

[brittle siren]

you mean after like the Worm Queen is dead

sorry Elder

who is also a OROKIN

also not all Tenno awake like us

also also, only us have Drifter

other have themself

no one even able to guide them anyway, idk how they could even regain memory, beside from pure luck

[swift sentinel]

There's nothing in the game that says this, but I like to think that the player spread the full abilities after War Within to the rest of the Tenno

[brittle siren]

and there's nowhere saying that all Tenno is awaken

show me 1 cutscene that show all Tenno in OP form in the same screentime

oh wait, there's NONE

the only reason we awake is because we coming too close to the pod, and if Lotus want to awake Tenno, she would only choose a few. And, important part here: only us has experience all the quest, others did not

gameplay not always connected with lore. Like how on earth Jade light exist in 1999, or Acolytes able to go there

[swift sentinel]

Like I said, it just headcanon

[brittle siren]

you did not state that anywhere in your argument, beside "I like to think..."

which not really state your "headcanon" that much

[swift sentinel]

That's what that means, though?

I also said, "there's nothing in the game"

[brittle siren]

then please next time use the word "headcanon"
it shorter, and easy to understand

[brittle siren]

from the start i thought you were saying my argument has no proof

[graceful swan]

You don’t need to state headcanon when you have already said I like to think as that already makes it obvious you aren’t presenting it as fact

[brittle siren]

to be fair, I don't really see a lot of ppl using those term to state their headcanon. And some even use it to prove their opinion as facts

So, like I said, using "headcanon" is much more efficient

[analog glade]

Some people consider their head cannon as fact; but yea the wording could have been clearer. that is the downside of text and its inaccuracy's of capturing full thought.

[brittle siren]

beside they didn't even start the conversation stating that is their headcanon, they only said it mid-way, so I thought they was talking about canon

it like you make the water leaking and when it almost getting all out, you put the tape on near the end, and at that time, it was too late

also why saying "headcanon" is harder than "I like to think bla bla bla". The latter was a waste of time + not being clear enough

[graceful swan]

Maybe they just thought the I like to think was obvious enough

[brittle siren]

maybe

[analog glade]

Lore wise, I can see some tenno waking up their powers before the MC tenno does, and some after. Maybe not being very visible about it.

[brittle siren]

difficult, especially before Lua was bring out of the void

[analog glade]

After the lua from void, but before the war within

[graceful swan]

Our powers were never actually turned off just suppressed

[brittle siren]

also if Ballas was suprise that our OP can transfer out from Umbra, that ability is not known until us use it (also Ordis don't know too)

[analog glade]

Rell was never in a dream like the rest of the tenno, so maybe had the powers always?

[graceful swan]

We all had the power always
The point was Margulis suppressed them not turned them off

[brittle siren]

i forgot mentioning the school, which needed the Tenno to be outside

[analog glade]

Not disagreeing, but what the general populace might know of the powers.

[brittle siren]

can Tenno able to tranfer out the WF from the start

[graceful swan]

The Tenno thought they were the Warframe

[brittle siren]

I meant the power to literally teleport to their warframe even from across half of the solar system

[analog glade]

That was the dream for sure, but Rell could at least transfer into a warframe. Was a matter of coming out of it.

[tall echo]

Focus school likely doesn't refer to a literal physical school building

[brittle siren]

I mean school abilities

[analog glade]

The machinery of the orbiter probably has something to do with how we begin syncing with the warframe, but after the sync I think it is the tenno power alone that lets up warp back and forth.

The orbiter acting as a relay when we are on Lua

[graceful swan]

Well Rell was cast out meaning he didn’t have the sleep to be dreaming about being a frame

[brittle siren]

yeah I think after war within the chair is useless and just for comfort only

[strange turtle]

Yeah, that’s what happens in the quest

[brittle siren]

well he the only one who transfer all his soul into the frames, so he become Harrow by literal means

[analog glade]

Well he does have 'spirits' transfer out during the chains.

[tall echo]

That's not rell

[brittle siren]

iirc it was his projection of sort

[analog glade]

projection is definitely a better word for it.

[brittle siren]

instead projecting his mind into frames, he project his soul to a "kinda" physical form to all over the place

[graceful swan]

Rell was barely Rell in the quest
It was Wally 99% of the time

[analog glade]

We do know he was able to project himself to the donda for communication between the start of Chains and when we was in Harrow

just not how he manifested.

[tall echo]

The only times it's ever rell for sure is when he's trying to help us, and he never appears visibly at those points

[analog glade]

A thought on it is maybe Harrow acted like our seats on the orbiter, where whenever he did transfer it always returned him to the vessel's location.

its a bit foggy in the lore for what we are and are not capable of, and how far the ability to transfer in actually works.

[tall echo]

Transference goes past physical mortality at least

Which sorta implies that the body is still somewhere while using transference

[analog glade]

The queen, though not a reliable source, did think she could get us after the warframe was destroyed.

[tall echo]

I wonder if the queens ever had contact to ballas, since the path to umbra's cherry tree is covered in ghouls

[analog glade]

I wouldn't think so, goals didn't really align

[tall echo]

Or maybe that's just a coincidence

[tall echo]

What goals would there be to align beyond "don't let people go here"

[analog glade]

Ballas was working on geting Lotus out of whereever she was. Queens were working at taking over as much of the solar system as they could.

[tall echo]

Lotus was in lua

The queens would want to get to lua

[analog glade]

A single goal, but outside of that Ballas looked to be more in hiding

Also considering for the narmer take over, he takes over the grineer just as strongly as the rest of the system, I'd wager that they were not aligned.

[graceful swan]

Weren’t the queens disliked in Orokin society

[analog glade]

iirc yes

twins, frowned upon

[tall echo]

Difficult times, drastic measures

Like allying with lessers

[verbal dock]

Well I doubt Ballas would genuinely ally with anyone

[graceful swan]

He allied with the Sentients twice

[tall echo]

Same

[verbal dock]

Was it genuine tho?

[analog glade]

More of a passive agressive takeover of the sentients.

[verbal dock]

Yeah Hunhow didn't approve lol

[graceful swan]

Why would he

He doesn’t like Ballas

[verbal dock]

He doesn't like the orokin

[analog glade]

Did anyone like Ballas? aside from Margulli at one point

[verbal dock]

He did say Erra agreeing to ally with Ballas meant the sentients being enslaved to the makers again

[graceful swan]

Erra did for a bit
Then he saw the Erra in his ways

[analog glade]

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tsss-drum-band-gif-7320811

[verbal dock]

Nope

And even marghulis chose the tenno over him

Although a question i have asked before

Was there ever an Orokin "Emperor"

[tall echo]

Only the seven

[verbal dock]

Cause to me the 7 felt like the heads of state

[analog glade]

I would say no, because the Seven ruled

[verbal dock]

Like i can totally imagine someone being higher than the seven

[analog glade]

Probably a way of checks and balances for power struggle among the elite.

[verbal dock]

Who has the final say in matters

[analog glade]

Well Ballas was executor of the seven, so he might fit the role a touch.

[tall echo]

albrecht when he was thinking about oro

[tall echo]

The seven executors

[verbal dock]

He was just a scientist

[tall echo]

It's a joke

Because he was high at that time

[verbal dock]

Was he ever not? Lol

I genuinely dislike him

[tall echo]

No judgement can be carried out without unanimous consent of the seven

[tall echo]

Well. Most of the time

...I just realized that maxing entrati syndicate gets the player adopted into albrecht's family. We could track him down and go "hey what's up I'm your newest grandchild"

[analog glade]

Grandpa shoots us!

[tall echo]

walks up to gomaitru
"Hey momm-
"Don't call me that"
"Your dad shot me"
"What."

[verbal dock]

Then ballas must've been pissed off 90% of the time

I wonder if he even knew the tenno were gonna do what they did and let them do it so he can take the other 6 out

[tall echo]

Well the tenno were supposed to kill the orokin, that was part of the plan he made with hunhow

[verbal dock]

Then that confirms he wanted them all dead then lol

So he can be the only one left

And he was for quite some time

[tall echo]

I suspect he never even did that as revenge for killing margulis because he had to agree to that

He just wanted to be the only orokin left

[analog glade]

More self-hatred then.

[verbal dock]

Idk tbh..he seems to care less about marghulis than him ruling the origin system

[tall echo]

Yes

[analog glade]

Everyone to bend the knee, everyone

[tall echo]

He stopped caring about margulis when she refused to submit to his demands

[analog glade]

A fraction for sure.

[verbal dock]

I don't think we ever knew where he hid

All this time

[analog glade]

probably a private tower in the void.

[old dome]

thats bc he never cared abt margulis.

or rather, he cared abt her in the same way someone would care abt a pretty vase—like an object to own & discard once it got "broken".

[graceful swan]

He still did enough to make a Sentient and a frame in her likeness

[misty helm]

I don't think it's fair to say that. The man clearly loved her. In a twisted way, maybe? But he even simped for her AI clone.

[lilac aspen]

He loved her but in an Orokin way
Which isn’t exactly great

[analog glade]

https://tenor.com/view/look-away-nolan-grayson-omni-man-invincible-head-turn-gif-21376177

kind of like how omniman says it

'like a pet'

[lilac aspen]

Basically she was his most important, irreplaceable property, to put it in perspective.

[misty helm]

Quite likely

[lilac aspen]

Sure he loved her
But it was not in a healthy love sort of way

[misty helm]

Yeah, I mean, pretty much not how we picture the concept 'love' IRL

Given how the Orokin and specially the Seven, had lived for who knows how long

[lilac aspen]

Sure he brought down the Orokin empire because of her death
But it was less of “This is for my lover” and more of “This is for destroying my antique statue.”

[misty helm]

I wonder what he saw in her

[scenic ermine]

and then saryn prime starts to pin me down to the bed and i struggles

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/joe-biden-presidential-debate-huh-confused-gif-9508832355999336631

[old dome]

he didnt "bring down the orokin empire" bc of her death... WHICH HE COULD HAVE PREVENTED. which she begged him to do.

the whole "i loved her. i wanted to protect her." that he said in saryn's & khora's trailers doesnt fly when he didnt even do what she begged him to do in the first place... also its a very common excuse that abusers use to justify their abuse towards their significant others or ppl they "love".

he leaked the orokin secrets for his own agendas... not bc of margulis. he was one of the 7. he could have saved her, like margulis had begged him to (she more or less said "get me out of here"). he didnt bc her death would make him a noble, tragic hero.

so yeah he p much loved her like someone would love a prized object. incel behavior.

[proper barn]

i don't think that's smart about those 2 things. He did blame everyone else when it was his fault. cuz it couldn't possibly be his fault.

he blamed the orokin empire when he could have saved her cuz he can't see himself as wrong.

even when he gets "what he wants"

he still WANTS MORE. like Natah was literally like a mimic made in Margulis image and he uses her so much. Like we literally see him throw her away and then go "wait no i want her back to use her up more".

like it's never his fault and everyone else is wrong. even when he gets what he wants he wants more blames someone else as to why he isn't happy with everything. @old dome

[old dome]

yup!! the two interpretations can co-exist i think

hes never wrong abt anything, ever. he wants more than he already has. he wants the history records to paint him as the tragic hero who brought down an empire for his dead lover's sake. he wants to be the sole emperor of multiple solar systems.

[north jolt]

Wait that technically makes us honorary Orokin, which means...

OH FRICK!

[north jolt]

Personally I think it's 50/50. He was more then willing to let Margulis be vaporized for her dissidence, but at the same time he was salty and seething about it because, even if it was in his own selfish and narcissistic way, he did somewhat love her. He just wasn't able to take accountability for all of that

[hexed oxide]

what in the void was going on with the orokin ?

like, if ballas was a representative, i just can't fathom the idea of not understanding what empathy is

[north jolt]

I mean

I don't want to bring TOO MUCH IRL stuff into this, but I look at the various ways wealthy and powerful people have acted and treated others through out history and into the modern days and then I think "Yeah, I'm not surprised the Orokin were like that"

||Even down to the "funding research into space travel and colonization just so they can feasibly escape a planet/solar system they themselves basically wrecked in the first place" part||

[hexed oxide]

ok wait a sec

[north jolt]

Also I'm probably far from the first person to ever make this observation but the three major factions were first introduced to in the game each kind of represent the worst qualities of the Orokin

Grineer: Sadism, cruelty, endless conquest and expansion at the cost of endless human lives and the eco-system
Corpus: Endless greed, exploitation of the lower classes, sucking planets and systems dry of natural resources to expand their own already absurd wealth and fortune
Infested: Mindless, unending consumption of anything and everything they see and desire, treating even people as mere resources to be consumed and used up, and always seeking to assimilate more people under their influence

[hexed oxide]

"--We had created monsters we couldn't control. We drugged them, tortured them, eviscerated them... We brutalized their minds... but it did not work. Until they came."

"And it was not their force of will - not their Void devilry - not their alien darkness... it was something else."

"It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing--"

"And take away its pain."

one thing is being cruel and exploiting people, but that dialogue makes it seem as if they don't know what empathy is to the point they don't have a word or definition for it

even some grineer feel bad when when they see one of their own suffering corpus may feel bad bc their pay will be cut or smth idk

[north jolt]

It doesn't change the fact they are cruel, but yeah this would not surprise me at all. Going back to an earlier statement, the Orokin were so far removed from the plight and trials of even their own underlings and servants (Grineer, Tenno, Dax etc), so far removed from anyone other then themselves that they basically conditioned themselves over time to just stop feeling any empathy at all, and eventually forgot about it. Not necessarily "bred out of them" per say, but they spend who knows how many centuries or millennia carefully crafting and cultivating a specific culture and environment where the Orokin Elites and their descendents just never learned what empathy was to begin with. It became so heavily normalized to them (the lack of empathy) that it never even occurred to them that they might be missing something

They live so far above other people socially and politically, they basically live in their own little worlds. Isolated bubbles where empathy isn't even a afterthought, it's literally just never taught to them at all and thus becomes a alien concept to them

But even with all that, we do see individual cases where someone from the Orokin Elite do show the smallest hint of empathy towards others, like Daughter working with Kahl and the two of them actually getting along.

[normal mountain]

Of course they don't
Empathy requires you to truly care about someone other than yourself
Most Orokin are incapable of this
Ballas certainly was

[lean tundra]

So i guess i completed duviri and it asked if i want to leave, if stay are there any other story things or just side quests

[high bay]

There won’t be much to do in Duviri until June. Idk what happens if you choose to stay in Duviri, but if you leave, you can always come back to funny post with funny decrees in a multi hour session that turns the final boss fight from you having to survive the orowyrm into a bossfight where the orowyrm has to survive you

[tall echo]

It just ends the quest with slightly different dialogue afaik

[brittle siren]

well tbf Omni man just saying it more like as harsh truth: he will outlive his wife

while Ballas is just a biggest a hole

[brittle siren]

the only Orokins is capable of having some empathy is all Entrati family, even Albrecht

but Albrecht is too busy running away + making plan so he kinda neglected his family and even his bf

[tall echo]

He's running away because of his bf tbf

To protecc him

[brittle siren]

And Wally still chasing so he on the run again

[plush walrus]

Does his daughter know he has a bf 👀😂

[brittle siren]

no

especially since Loid is the butler

[plush walrus]

Operator has to play middle man + family therapist

[brittle siren]

which pretty much a scandal if they know

[plush walrus]

At least they're well isolated so covid didn't do much

[brittle siren]

they already get infested so

[plush walrus]

Techrot and infestation is the same thing right? Just that techrot predates infestation cause in the past 1999

[proper barn]

Maybe. Do you think she'd care?

They like Loid.

They miss Albretch.

[plush walrus]

Would somehow lead to another argument with the husband 😂

[proper barn]

Why? You repair the family they both say sorry.

[plush walrus]

Oh I didn't max the reputation. Whose fault was it in the end? Cause the son allows the infestation to reach the heart right?

[proper barn]

Do you mean about the original quest?

Cuz we know who damaged the heart. You even hear ||her|| voice and can talk that character after.

That character did it on purpose to have the family work together.

[plush walrus]

Oh the grandma?

[proper barn]

Yeah.

She says that.

[plush walrus]

Damn

[proper barn]

She's also the only one that doesn't take a name cuz she's cool

Also btw she's Father's Mom.

[plush walrus]

She's was super useful to get other family member tokens lol

[proper barn]

Does this help you?

[plush walrus]

Oh we didn't knew albretch wife

[proper barn]

Yeah.

Well she probably died.

[plush walrus]

Yea, I stopped demios once I got the helminth.

[proper barn]

Lmao.

I love diemos. It's my favorite open world.

[plush walrus]

Someone said me to finish the star chart. So I never focused on open worlds like Cetus or fortuna

[proper barn]

Like having bounties be the actual way you get standing and like the rewards being good is great.

[plush walrus]

Then after unlocking steelpath I'm there ranking up the early game factions xd

[proper barn]

Diemos is so easy

Cuz you can pre-farm all the mother tokens

And then just turn them in every reset.

[plush walrus]

That's true

I'm having to do normal fortuna + little duck reputation

[proper barn]

Oof

That one sucks. It's like get animals.

Also the diemos bounties is the best way to get like amber stars.

[plush walrus]

I remember for Deimos I had to get one specific animal and it was during one specific cycle. And bro was never spawning. It gave me ptsd lil bit

Animal part was needed for the rank up

[fast tulip]

I just realised the ranking requirement/hex treasure is something that each member like

[humble sierra]

Except for the meals and pizza, since everyone likes that

[strange plinth]

<@&778745217037238293> guessing ordis missed one, apologies for ping

[shell tulip]

[hexed oxide]

uh...i always thought grandma was albrecht's wife

[proper barn]

Why?

[hexed oxide]

logic ? and maybe bc she's good at planning, maybe picked that up from albrecht

[lean garden]

You aint got two grandmas?

[proper barn]

She says "my son" talking about father.

When you first talk to her doesn't she?

[proper barn]

They where looking at the one I posted Nem.

[hexed oxide]

so like 1 or 2 years ago, no wonder i forgor

[strange plinth]

"My son, Father. Blustery and spineless, all at once. His absentee wife, Mother,"

[verbal dock]

I'm not the biggest open world fan..I like the regular mission tilesets lol

But I burnt hundreds of hours with my friends on cetus when it first dropped

Just there fooling around and doing bounties

Honestly in my opinion..the thing dragging open worlds down in WF is the fact that they're all almost barren landscape, filled with ruins or empty stretches of land..I'd have very much liked to explore fortuna city itself as opposed to the barren cold of Venus yk what I mean

[digital grail]

A city open world would be cool in warframe

[graceful swan]

They had plans for that, that eventually became 1999 instead

[digital grail]

Oh cool

[verbal dock]

Höllvania feels more of a tileset than an open world

[strange turtle]

Corposium 🙏

[verbal dock]

Yeah ikr lol, I remember going to that "colony" in the Glast Gambit quest and being so happy with it

[verbal dock]

I'd love to explore corposium

It would have ecumenopolis vibes

[restive river]

Corposium

[verbal dock]

I like to imagine Corposium looks like Taris

From SW kotor

Taris is also kinda segregated based on socio economic status so it kinda fits too as a concept

[restive river]

Got any pics? :o

[lean tundra]

Star wars mentioned

[verbal dock]

Yeah 1 sec

[restive river]

Oooo

[sly ibex]

KotOR 1 and 2 were great. Wish we got a 3.

[verbal dock]

Yup..I still replay them to this day every now and then

[lean tundra]

I cant find any interesting thing in them soo i cant play them

[sly ibex]

?

[sly ibex]

I'm glad they're on Steam. 😄

[lean tundra]

? ?

I love sw but they are not interesting for me

[verbal dock]

But yeah i could totally see corposium looking something like taris

And society being structured in a similar way

[sly ibex]

Ah, gotcha. They're definitely in my top favorite SW games, personally. The original Battlefront games, too.

[verbal dock]

I played Battlefront 2 on the psp lol

[sly ibex]

If Corposium looked like Taris, that would be awesome. I don't think the Corpus' general style seems to be like that, though. 😦 They tend to do things very blocky.

It would be nice to see more architectural variety from the enemy factions.

Getting to see some actual densely populated cities would also be cool. The Grineer not having any makes sense, but the Corpus must have some (aside from the obvious one of Corposium).

[verbal dock]

Yeah grineer are pretty much centered around the kuva fortress and their fleets, and they do have planetary mining facilities and shipyards and the likes..but no civilians ig

Corpus DO have civilians under them tho

So they 100% would have cities on their planets

Fortuna is technically one of those

Imagine we got to explore inside the city

Different lore topic now:

Corpus are said to be pretty much a megacorp that profits off war and slave labour etc etc...and ofc we all know that they sell weapons and tech to the grineer

So how do the corpus actually profit from that since the grineer are always at war with the corpus and burning down their assets?

It would've made sense if the grineer are in a large scale war with another power in the origin system but most of the time it's just them vs the corpus and some tenno raids and planes stuff

[glacial bough]

Because the Corpus are wrecking just as much as their own tech that's costs them little to sell back

[lean tundra]

Sell high price get low damage send useless soldiers

[glacial bough]

Along with Tenno destruction on both sides

[lean tundra]

Idk the lore about it just guessing

[verbal dock]

Those useless soldiers do cost tho..and the corpus would be funding the equipment on both sides

[lean tundra]

But Lower than gun

What costs more high tech gun that you own the codes
Or useless soldier

Maybe they glitch the guns while owning the codes of them

[verbal dock]

Grineer are kinda dim but I don't think they're dim enough to keep buying faulty weapons

[lean tundra]

Not all faulty

Some of them

[silk atlas]

You're forgetting that the Corpus are not a singular, wholistic faction. There's a good chunk of splintering between them and a lot of them have their own goals

[lean tundra]

Ypu cant spot the broken ones if there are 1m guns and 10-15 broke

And if they are crucial ones

[verbal dock]

So you're saying someone like Nef might profit from a sale which is gonna be used against Salad who's gonna eat the cost?

It makes sense when you look at it from this perspective

[lean tundra]

And not completely

They can make it unfunctional for little time

[silk atlas]

See: Frohd Behk and Ergo Glast

Also Parvos and Nef Anyo

Alad is just kinda the butt of the Corpus in general so no clue about him

[verbal dock]

Yeah it makes sense from this angle

If they were a united faction

They most likely wouldn't sell to grineer

[north jolt]

Warframe if the Orokin weren't a bunch of d*ckheads

[tall echo]

Minus the soldiers part

[hexed oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/future-ram-ranch-gif-18120355

[lilac aspen]

It’s all fun and games until they take the faulty weapons and convert them into dangerous faulty weapons

[strange plinth]

<whatever vay hek was saying about the ogris during galleon of ghouls here>
i don't remember the quote and it doesn't seem to be on the wiki

[hexed oxide]

the one about "REMEMBER WHEN YOU SAID; WAAA, THE OGRIS IS TOO DANGEROUS, WAAA. I'LL SHOW YOU DANGEROUS" ?

smth like that

[strange plinth]

yeah something like that

[swift steppe]

guys wtf do the orokin writing mean

like the ones that spawn on screen for legit no reason at all

i think thats the ones i saw (not my screenshot)

[tall echo]

Old second dream teaser

DE should just finally remove it all it does is confuse people

[humble sierra]

Void Link Severed

Reason: foreign carrier detected. Origin: unknown. Suspection: tracking signal. Reinitiating dipolar connection on novel carrier. Bio in standby for check and sync.

Motion compensation complete.

Selenic lensing locked.

Somatic control established.

Margulis implantation intact.

EVM status nominal.

War platform awaiting sync.

Initializing synaptic overlay... Good night, sweet angel.

[swift steppe]

wtf does that mean

[swift steppe]

oh

[swift steppe]

yeah lol they rlly should

[tall echo]

Don't translate just explain

[humble sierra]

Man if I knew what it meant I'd explain it

I think there was something wrong with the Dream so it's a system error that rechecks itself and fixes the issue

[tall echo]

You have the translation but don't know that the teaser is violently outdated?

[humble sierra]

I know it's outdated, someone already mentioned it was a Second Dream teaser

You mentioned it was a second dream teaser

[tall echo]

Yes

[swift steppe]

the real question is why is it still in game

[tall echo]

No actual reason

[humble sierra]

It makes sense for it being in-game pre-Second Dream, but if you've done the quest, they should disable it

[swift steppe]

its literally the first time i see ts in game

ive done the quest months ago bruh LMAO

[humble sierra]

Or make it a very specific trigger so that everyone sees it at some point during an earlier quest

[tall echo]

Make it show up during the new strange or stolen dreams

[humble sierra]

Maybe during Vor's Prize? Is the Ascaris the foreign carrier?

[tall echo]

Unspecified

[swift steppe]

what ius the ascaris anyway

[humble sierra]

The thingy Vor injects you with in Awakening

It's meant to control you and during Vor's Prize it slowly takes over your systems

[swift steppe]

i dont remember that

anyways

[tall echo]

Anyways what

[swift steppe]

idk im thinking

[tall echo]

Man why am I so hostile that ain't right

[swift steppe]

who is nora night

[tall echo]

Nora night is nora night

[swift steppe]

yes but who is she exactly

[tall echo]

Just a nobody pirate radio station host

[humble sierra]

She hosts a radio show/signal and basically reports on things around the system

Does a bit of investigative journalism too I think

[swift steppe]

doesnt seem like shes just a nobody especially when shes participating in the glassmaker thingy boss fight w you

[tall echo]

Because glassmaker was a nightwave story

[humble sierra]

Yeah she helped you investigate the glassmaker thing and the boss fight is about you preventing him from turning her and a whole bunch of people into a Cephalon or something

I didn't play back then so I've got those details wrong certainly

Just going off my rough understanding

[tall echo]

He already did, it's about reverting some and preventing him from continuing

[swift steppe]

i wish i was there when the nightwave stories came out

whats the emissary

[tall echo]

Eh you can still listen to the stories

[tall echo]

Listen to the story

[swift steppe]

im too lazy im ngl

[tall echo]

Wh

[swift steppe]

i changed my mind

[tall echo]

So. You'd rather read. Than listen to a short story.

[swift steppe]

this kid is scary

[humble sierra]

Emissary's a kid, Arlo, on an infested rock where they send their junk and infested junk, but somehow this kid was perfectly fine and could even cure the infestation

just kidding he's actually super infested and is infesting people into the hivemind

[tall echo]

Humans confuse me more every day

[humble sierra]

Pay attention to the hand

[swift steppe]

wtf

[tall echo]

"An infested rock" is a strange way to spell eris

[swift steppe]

this is crazy

[swift steppe]

oh my god

its all connected

[humble sierra]

It was Eris? Been a while since I heard it, I just thought it was some asteroid nearby Eris

[tall echo]

He was found inside eris, which is an infested hellscape

[swift steppe]

thats volts helmet

LMAO

[tall echo]

It is not

[swift steppe]

😦

[tall echo]

That's an.... ugh the name is so forgettable

[swift steppe]

brother urgh

[tall echo]

The hyper tanky boss on the end of deimos

[humble sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-warframe-1999-eleanor-nightingale-gif-17022609555433617631

[humble sierra]

Apostate?

[swift steppe]

idk the name i forgor it

[humble sierra]

I know that's the kullervo skin but pretty sure it's also the name of the boss

[swift steppe]

lephantis??

[tall echo]

It's not

The other boss

[swift steppe]

zealoid

[humble sierra]

Zealoid Prelate!

[tall echo]

Yes

So forgettable

[swift steppe]

fr

[tall echo]

Should rename it to the furtive pygmy

[swift steppe]

ok but why was there a heavily infested kid

[tall echo]

The infested can mimic people

[swift steppe]

that lowkey looks like it could be a part of the venkids thingy

[tall echo]

Arlo was never a human

[swift steppe]

brother urgh

[tall echo]

We can now blame on-lyne's manager for it

[mystic fractal]

Lmao

[swift steppe]

why

[tall echo]

The coda were supposed to be clones of the band

Eventually that intention evolves into full mimicry

[swift sentinel]

Whole thing was a trap, story was DE reinforcing that the Infestation is not dumb and reactive, but can actively plan

[swift steppe]

oh

welp

i dont think well hear of them anytime soon

[native quartz]

||protoframe doesn't age?||

[proper barn]

The loop keeps happening.

[humble sierra]

Can't age if you're stuck in the same loop

[native quartz]

hm, interesting...

[swift steppe]

wtf i never had that conversation

[native quartz]

*well now u know... *

[swift steppe]

yes thank you very much

[verbal dock]

There was potential to build infested liches around him

[tall echo]

It's the birthday convo

[swift steppe]

oh

[swift steppe]

i guess

[tall echo]

Kinda obvious if you think about it for half a second innit

[swift steppe]

yes but im braindead

[tall echo]

And I'm slerp deprived

...way to prove it, me.

Slerp deprived. Great typo

[swift steppe]

amazing typo

[rotund stirrup]

What's the lore reason for Qorvex absolutely hanging brain in the Pride Month display?

[swift steppe]

i dont think there is any its just for fun but idk

[cursive isle]

His beam procs the radiation status, causing allies to attack each other. And this is exactly how part of Warframe players behave on social media every pride month

[rotund stirrup]

LOL okay this one feels lore accurate

[proper barn]

Cuz he's got a giant chest.

[proper barn]

A very small part. Like so many more people support pride.

[cursive isle]

This year definitely set a record for the amount of hate and hate moderation regarding pride month. And definitely set a record for the number of clown emojis under Warframe posts on Steam

[proper barn]

I mean warframe has reached a lot of people. But I still say we outnumber the people being hateful.

[sage stratus]

How was he fine though? He looks fine completely

Was it a new strain?

[blissful merlin]

That was all the infestation…just mimicking.

[woven coyote]

Well turns out it wasnt a kid

It was in practice an infested mimic

[obsidian coral]

whats the whole entire point of warframe

[lean garden]

https://tenor.com/view/be-nice-to-each-other-matty-matheson-cookin-somethin-finger-lickin'-chicken-%26-waffles-be-kind-to-each-other-gif-16328214638020479364

[brittle siren]

Killing Capitalism organization

[graceful swan]

What if the entire point of Warframe was the friends we made along the way

[brittle siren]

I mean
Your not wrong

[brittle siren]

Just curious
If Ballas never shake hand with Hunhow, how would the Old War went

[graceful swan]

They still would’ve lost just wouldn’t have went to the Moon to kill us

[brittle siren]

I mean, would they? Hunhow and Erra is very strong still. And the Tenno may betray the Orokin while the War still happens

[graceful swan]

They wouldn’t know of the secret to think to target the moon meaning it would be a battle somewhere else and our frames would keep coming back until they get killed

As Vor explains it in modern day

Every time we tear a Tenno corpse from its metal womb we find nothing to explain their power. Our warframe engineers gesture wildly about nanotechnology, how reactive dissolution hides the answers. What if a warframe is merely a lightning rod? A conduit for these demons of the Void? Consider how it could change our plan.

[tall echo]

Ok but nothing about the cooperation made the tenno delay their betrayal? It would always happen after the war

[graceful swan]

And Hunhow says “Cut of their heads yet they rise again” meaning not knowing that means we’d just wear them down eventually

[brittle siren]

Oh I see

[verbal dock]

And what are the warframes we build in the foundry?

Both the primes and normal ones

[graceful swan]

Clones

[tall echo]

Copies

[brittle siren]

I mean yeah Tenno kinda immortal

[brittle siren]

100% copies from the original frame

[verbal dock]

But how? As in copied the original person aka the protoframe

[tall echo]

(Although there still isn't anything that actually proves it)

[brittle siren]

Our copy tech is better than the cloning method, but only work on Warframe and weapons

[hollow siren]

Protoframes are not the Originals

[tall echo]

Protos are not the og

[graceful swan]

Helminth just repairs the frames so destroying a frame once isn't enough to win

[brittle siren]

Kinda immortal, Rell can die proof that not really the case
Ig they are hard to kill, and especially us who directly have deals with Wally, I doubt he will let us die

[hollow siren]

Originals were made during the Old War. Albrecht brought strains with him back to 1999

[verbal dock]

And the warframes were made by infesting people right?

[tall echo]

The initial designs

[hollow siren]

Specialized strain of the Infestation made by Ballas, yes. That's the Helminth Strain

[tall echo]

Any copies after do not use people

[brittle siren]

To be precise, Ballas use the Helminth on his subject to make them become living armor

[verbal dock]

So now when we build a warframe in the foundry are we infesting a clone of a person?

[brittle siren]

But that only the first one

[verbal dock]

Or is it a machine?

[brittle siren]

The rest are mere copies

[hollow siren]

Nope, constructing essentially a hollow puppet from raw biomatter

[tall echo]

Read my message above

[graceful swan]

3D printing

[brittle siren]

Not really hollow, Umbra still have his memory

[hollow siren]

The Originals were all sapient to various degrees, but many went insane too

[brittle siren]

Which tbf he is the more special case

[hollow siren]

That's moreso us reassembling him, memories and all, than making a copy from a blueprint

[verbal dock]

So 3D printing using the same material based off the originals blueprint

[hollow siren]

Pretty much, yeah

[verbal dock]

And the copies can only be controlled by transference

[brittle siren]

I mean we only scan him not collecting his parts though

[hollow siren]

we meet the original Jade, but the Jade we play as is a fabricated copy

[brittle siren]

My theory that her memories still there but the "soul" is truly gone

[hollow siren]

same goes for Sevagoth and Kullervo

[brittle siren]

When we use transference we basically become them

[hollow siren]

Sorta like the "muscle" memory still remains, but the actual memories are gone

[tall echo]

Unlikely

[verbal dock]

Yup got it now

[brittle siren]

I mean then how we could explain the idle animation? Like Nick said it could also be muscle memory

[tall echo]

Bits of personality remain

[brittle siren]

Yeah that what I meant

[hollow siren]

It's like imprinted onto their strain, rather than the actual person's memories

[brittle siren]

Yeah that

I'm bad at wording stuff

[hollow siren]

Our Sevagoth copy may have the "essence" of a Railjack captain, but it can't recall any of its rescues or even pilot a Railjack on its own

[brittle siren]

Also about Umbra, iirc his transference bolt was a special kind that keep repeating his memory. So it make sense on how he was able to gain sentience after we copy him

[hollow siren]

it's kinda unclear wether our copy's Shadow is the actual Shadow, since that may be one-of-a-kind, or if its "essence" is now imprinted on the Sevagoth blueprint following the two uniting at the end of the quest

[brittle siren]

Since we copy everything

[brittle siren]

I think it also Sevagoth special abilities from the start

But he able to extract his soul into the shadow, and linger thanks to the void.

[hollow siren]

It's kinda unclear wether the Shadow always existed or if it formed from Sevagoth's lingering will aboard the Tempestarii following Sevagoth's disappearance. As Cy puts it, the Shadow is "Concentrated Void energy. It is; not conventionally 'alive'."

[brittle siren]

I mean the Prime confirmed that Shadow is from original design

The void just help maintain the shadow and the ship (since the actual frame is too far away and there's no way to fuel the Shadow)

I still wonder why they shoot Sevagoth out in the safety pod

[hollow siren]

I still feel like the base Sevagoth looking like a half-decayed corpse of the Prime is due to being "eroded" during his long disappearance, and the Shadow also did either on its own or by reflecting Sevagoth himself

[hollow siren]

Giving him a naval burial now that his service is done

[brittle siren]

Yes the looks is surely more decayed than whatever the original base Sevagoth is, but Prime version of him confirmed that his ghostly design on Shadow is intended

[brittle siren]

No I mean when the ship is lost, not in the end of the quest

Why Sevagoth pod is outside the ship? Why he left the Shadow back at the ship?

And strange thing is, how tf the Shadow have the exact location of Sevagoth pod

Like it was drifting in the void

Or unless the pod has tracking device

[hollow siren]

Shadow could sense Sevagoth, but the exact location was corrupted

we helped decode it

[hollow siren]

I doubt that the pods themselces have it, but the Railjacks likely have Lanthorn-based navigators since their main function is doing Void-jumps to bypass and hi-jack the Solar Rails normal ships are forced to use

but yeah it's still kinda unclear what caused Sevagoth to be lost

Considering it was during a rescue mission, maybe he shot himself out in the pod to destroy/distract assailants

Allowing the Tempestarii to take the rescued people to safety on a suddenly-available "auto-pilot" (you get where I'm going)

[silk escarp]

Probably corrupted due to damage sustained during the rescue mission. Or maybe since it disappeared during one, that last rescue mission was for Sevagoth himself and damage was sustained during the void storm corrupting the data and causing the ship to be lost?

[hollow siren]

Cy explicitly says they're corrupted

[silk escarp]

Just theorizing as to what caused the data to be corrupted

[grave jetty]

What exactly are the tenno or warframes. Whatever you wanna call them I was thinking alien robots but idk

[stray gale]

have you finished the main quest? it explains this

[grave jetty]

What do you classify as the main quest I've done loads of main quests whats the name of it

[hollow siren]

The Sacrifice explains what Warframes are

The War Within explains some of what the Tenno are

[graceful swan]

The Second Dream shows you what you are

[grave jetty]

Ok then no I have not gotten there cause im in the dream quest

[grave jetty]

I'm in that one

[hollow siren]

That's when the story kinda starts

[grave jetty]

Just started it last night

[grave jetty]

About time before that was kinda boring tho i liked the operated quest

[graceful swan]

Keep doing your quests and the answers will follow

[grave jetty]

I was thinking aliens cause the gloves

[hollow siren]

Well fun fact, a big thing about Warframe that DE has wanted to follow since they started creating the game is that there are no aliens, everything can be traced back to humanity

[grave jetty]

So where cyborgs

[hollow siren]

Many characters have cybernetic augments

[grave jetty]

Like irava

?

[hollow siren]

The Sacrifice explains what Warframes are

[grave jetty]

But irava is one of the cyborg like ones right

[hollow siren]

"The exact nature of the Tenno and their connection to their Warframes is unknown" - The Codex entry "Warframes"

[hollow siren]

Pretty much all Warframes have metallic-looking bits if you look

[grave jetty]

Ok but iravas head is this

[graceful swan]

It’s a secret only the Orokin know
Until it isn't

[grave jetty]

Wait where'd my picture go

[hollow siren]

you'll find out more as you go on, we're just trying to avoid spoiling

[grave jetty]

Your saying she only has cybernetic bits and isn't a full one?

[graceful swan]

Wait till you find out what a Warframe is

[grave jetty]

Her hat looks like a mushroom 🤣

[silk atlas]

And that's part of her flesh

[grave jetty]

Huh?!?!

Then whats the hat on her prime

[silk atlas]

...this was explained in The Sacrifice.

That's also flesh. It's all metal-like flesh.

[grave jetty]

So you meet her in the sacrifice?

[silk atlas]

Oh you haven't gotten that far. No, you don't, but you learn how they're made

Just play the quests

[hollow siren]

The Sacrifice explains what Warframes are

[nocturne valve]

I know that the base warframes we craft in the foundry don't have any personality left in them. What about primes?

[hollow siren]

Ditto

[grave jetty]

Sad man

[nocturne valve]

So, only warframe with a personality is Umbra?

[tacit pagoda]

the stalker too, and jade

[nocturne valve]

Oh yeah. Them too.

[silk atlas]

Kullervo and Dante:

[nocturne valve]

Qorvex?

[hollow siren]

All the Originals

the only Originals we meet are Stalker, Jade, Sevagoth, Umbra, Kullervo and technically Flare as Temple

[nocturne valve]

Oh. Makes sense. Sevagoth is supercool.

[woven bramble]

Agreed, great story too!

[silk atlas]

Nothing in Sevagoths quest mentions him being the original last I checked

[nocturne valve]

He got that piraty vibe, heck, he is one. Would make into Hydroid's crew

[woven bramble]

He was involved in the war, no?

Unless I am misremembering the story - been a couple of years 😓

[nocturne valve]

Can I replay the mission? It's one of the best

[hollow siren]

it is replayable

[nocturne valve]

Nice

[silk atlas]

Doesnt seem like it. He's from the Orokin era but so is every other Warframe design, and the Orokin weren't shy from making multiple of a frame even during their rule

[hollow siren]

He has a voice that he and Shadow both talk with

[verbal dock]

He was involved in the old war as a rescuer i think

[silk atlas]

What about it?

[woven bramble]

That’s the one

[verbal dock]

He used to roam around space in his tempestarii and respond to emergency calls

[woven bramble]

Maybe not exactly an original then

[woven bramble]

The Helmsmen 😃

[silk escarp]

Then what are the orokin?

[graceful swan]

Humans

[hollow siren]

Humans who had a peculiar sense of beauty ideals and modified their bodies accordingly

Orokin were a caste, not a race

[silk escarp]

They liked overly long arms?

[graceful swan]

Yes

[silk escarp]

Weird

[hollow siren]

*arm

[graceful swan]

It was a thing they did to show generosity

[silk escarp]

So they were overly advanced aristocrats, basically.

[graceful swan]

Yes

[silk escarp]

No wonder I don't like them

[graceful swan]

Trust me there are much worse reasons to dislike them than just being advanced humans

[silk escarp]

No. I don't like them because they're ARISTOCRATS. The sheer superiority complex that comes with it is more than enough reason

[lilac aspen]

Orokin really are just humans who became so advanced that they believe themself above any other humans who wasn’t part of the group (Mainly because said Orokin deliberately made sure to be the only ones with this level of technology and power)

[hollow siren]

They deified themselves

[chrome frost]

Predatory void theory: ok so i've been thinking about parvos granum and his specter particles. Since he used entrati's research when making his research and we know that he used the void to do it "fire fusion void" what if the void is essentially just a space with those specter particles making it up in its entirety? Now why do i call this theory a "Predatory void theory"? Because so far it has been proven time and time again that exposure to the void leads to people ending up semi immortal (the tenno, the drifter, Captain Vor and Teshin as well as parvos himself if it wasn't just protea doing something with time dilation, and of course kuva liches being essentially immortal due to being infused with kuva which is connected to the void in some way) and void is used as fuel (void engines) storage and ways to travel vast distances. Here's the reason for the name. What if being exposed to the void for long periods of time leads to it slowly eating away the cells in your body to embody them via those particles sort of like how The thing from the movie with the same name does to its victims but with the mind of the victim remaining semi intact? What if this "radiation" which void supposedly has is just its specter particles attacking cells of a potential prey like a swarm of extremely small piranhas to replace them and actually embody something? The indifference or the man in the wall could be essentially those particles given actual mind and will of its own, after all what did the indifference try to do when we first got to meet it as an enemy in 1999? It wanted to "devour" 1999, to eat its concepts.

And now that i think about it further the indifference was created due to entrati entering the void, giving particles a form of a creature to copy leading to his other being created with the main take away being that the void got to take most of his skin (he was scorched to the point of potentially dying if not for loid) yet his mind remained in the body. Essentially what the other could be is....a specter without the mind of the subject, an empty shell from which the mind managed to escape.

the only unaccounted aspect is duviri but then again this could loop back to the specter particles latching onto the mind of the subject that being the drifter who remained in the void for a long enough time for it to merge with them

[hollow siren]

we know the exact phenomenon that formed Void Duviri: Conceptual Embodiment. It's the same thing that formed the Holdfasts

[chrome frost]

oh right...does that make my theory invalid then?

[lean garden]

Also like others were also exposed to the void, that's why deimos has isovaults

[hollow siren]

and IIRC. Specter Particles were the thing Parvos stole from Entrati

[chrome frost]

oh...

[hollow siren]

But the actual ideas and themes of your theory seem pretty sound

[chrome frost]

0w0 yipeee

[lean garden]

Personally Im not too particulary convinced that this is a consequence of void exposure

since void exposure itself is well documented

[sage stratus]

And yet the cavia exist

[lean garden]

why are you saying that like its some gotcha moment

[sage stratus]

Im not

[slow bramble]

I wonder if the Yuvan became the first Void Angels?

Like maybe all the chaos with the Void right now are remnants of Orokin atrocities

[hollow siren]

it's unclear wether Void Angels existed before the Zariman crew copies were formed and later transformed

[lean garden]

I mean, wouldnt the "first" angels be from the Zariman?

[slow bramble]

The Angels are the ones singing right?

[hollow siren]

The "song" is the Voidtongue

[lean garden]

How would the Yuvan end up as void angels? They got debateably equally horrid fates as the zariman crew

[hollow siren]

the Void Angels serve the Indifference

[slow bramble]

Ah, hm.
Cause I'm thinking given how we know this universe works those minds had to go somewhere
Likely the void

[lean garden]

could also just go poof yknow

like rell

[sage stratus]

Speaking of void angels, its actually concerning how easily the man in the wall could be let into the sol system if we didn’t stop the angels each time

[chrome frost]

hmm the void angels could be the indifference "experimenting" with the zariman "ghosts"

[hollow siren]

Void Angels are what they become when they give in to the Song and "feed" from the Reliquary

the Holdfasts are currently resisting by "feeding" on our "Light" instead of the Indifference's "Light"

[slow bramble]

Exactly my thinking. It had to start somewhere. What if this is it?

Like water building up behind the dam

[hollow siren]

"Oh yes, we drew light, but from a very different source. I wonder, do you even know just how brightly you shine?"

[chrome frost]

huh...

[hollow siren]

Quote from Quinn regarding them feeding on the Reliquary

[slow bramble]

I'm more focused on the Yuvan, not the Void Angels specifically

I don't think they just went poof

[chrome frost]

...could it be that thats the void manifesting them to our memory? thinking of it light could be a different way of saying though in regards to how void works

[hollow siren]

Teshin describes it as not merely replacing the mind, but grinding it down until only the new mind remains

[slow bramble]

So it's a mindbreak

[hollow siren]

It's why people look so hard on the implication in TNW that Wally took our "Light" as part of The Deal

[lean garden]

Teshin: "No. The Queen doesn't want to kill you. She wants to become you. To burrow through your mind, corrupting it with despair, until only she remains."

[lean garden]

Which I still find a funny thing to theorise

[slow bramble]

You know when you understand something in abstract but not like mechanically?

[lean garden]

since uh, the scene doesnt actually have us make the deal using the light we pass to wally

[lean garden]

you mean like me and organic chem? yea

[hollow siren]

Yep, it's just similar wording where both get a lot of emphasis when they're said, and there's few other strands to grasp at

[chrome frost]

like the indifference only knows simple parts of what makes a human body basically only knows that it must be humanoid. May be it tries to make up its own thing? To create its own body instead of simply copying others but to do it it tries to work off of a blueprint of the bodies of adults of zariman?

[slow bramble]

So it sounds less like booting the other person out and more brainwashing

[hollow siren]

The Fragmented are the Indifference mimicking human anatomy, as per their codex entries

[slow bramble]

That's still Yareli, she's just been rewired to think she's Ballas

[chrome frost]

yeah

[slow bramble]

En mass computer copying

[lean garden]

Like, theres merit in noticing a thread to follow in:

Operator: "Hey, lose your light? Here, you can take mine."

[The other abruptly stops tapping, and holds still for a second before quickly spinning around. They are identical to the Tenno's Operator, including face and hair, but their eyes are glowing white. They reply with a disturbing grin in the Operator's own voice.]

Man in the Wall: "Thanks kiddo. (voice distorted) I think I will."
But to then link it to the deal requires a bit more faith than I'm willing to muster, because this happens right before the deal, as a separate complete transaction yknow?

[hollow siren]

More like that was Yareli, but Yareli was ground away to make room for Ballas to move in

[sage stratus]

Also need i remind you all that the zeriman is slowly falling out if the void rip

If we don’t have control of the propulsion i think that should be an operation in of itself

[slow bramble]

Okay but now we're back to square one!

[lean garden]

Are you drawing that from yonta feeling like the ship moved or?

[slow bramble]

Where does Yareli go?!

[chrome frost]

first it could have started with the zariman adults and then slowly started treading the waters to make up its own body. Now it knows how to make an arm and a leg then the torso then the head then its own voice even

[lean garden]

The way rell went

poof

[sage stratus]

Yea, and they might not be wrong

[chrome frost]

btw theres a video out there theorising that rell is that guy from duviri that went missing

mathilas hubby

[lean garden]

that theory is dog doodoo

ive seen it and its haphazardly slapped together

[slow bramble]

Maybe it'll be proven or disproven in the next update?

[lean garden]

nah

In the splendid lands on this side of the Wall lives happy Mathila, and she has two children.

She also had a husband, in her yesterdays. When I have attempted to talk to her about him she has simply frozen, like a rat before a snake.

His name was Garmi, and he was keeper of the Seriglass Lighthouse on Watcher's Island.

The lighthouse served no true purpose, yet he kept its lamp burning, beaming out into the Void as if to call travellers home.

Now… before his death, Garmi confided in me that he felt his role was important; he was keeping 'it' at bay.

Void Storms were not unknown in Duviri, but the storm I shall speak of was unlike others. It hung in a red veil across the sky. There was a great sound like tearing metal, and all at once a pelting rain fell. Not water, but broken metal chains, in lengths and coils and great rattling whipstrands.

The falling chains shattered roofs and windows, slashed through screaming livestock, and maimed the fools who had not come in from the streets.

I found Garmi's log in the toppled ruin of the lighthouse. With admirable presence of mind, he describes a form steadily approaching out of the Void. A monstrous hand, possessed of only three fingers and a thumb.

With the lighthouse gone, Watcher's Island crumbled and was gone too within three spirals.

Garmi has no grave nor memorial, as if he had never lived. But I remember. And so, I record.
Here's the entry the "theory" is contingent on.

[sage stratus]

Considering the man in the wall seemed a bit salty about losing 1999 and entrati again, i think it might get a bit more aggressive in its planing

[lean garden]

The issue here being the events of Chains of Harrow are what causes Watchers Island, and Garmi to go bye bye

[sage stratus]

Why do islands keep vanishing even

[hollow siren]

Untime and Reality Time do not always join chronologically

[hollow siren]

taken by the Indifference

[chrome frost]

wally put his hands on em and thrax got scared

[sage stratus]

I know one was because of strange black eye’d children causing thrax ordering the island to be destroyed

[chrome frost]

severed em into the undercroft

[hollow siren]

Yes, that's Wally

[sage stratus]

I figured

[hollow siren]

black-eyed copies of people visible only to them

[chrome frost]

heads up one was thrown to the undercroft cuz hands popped up

[sage stratus]

One decision that i think thrax might have been somewhat right to do

[lean garden]

Maybe not, but here is a clear cut case of reality causal event prompting an event in Duviri, similar to how the stab in TNW translates into Duviri paradox

[hollow siren]

tbf said event involved the greatest Void force we know of, so it's natural it affected the Void as well

it's like if you dropped a sandwhich that was actually a Void sandwhich

[chrome frost]

anyways i think that the indifference's ultimate goal is to no longer be a void embodying other creatures but rather be its own creature with its own face

even wally is just entrati but altered (the big one)

[hollow siren]

Wally is essentially the Indifference given Reality concepts like Form, Time and Mind. Like the water of a lake poured into a mold. It's still the same water and the same lake, but it has a distinct "something" that you can point towards

They're not separate things at all, Wally is more like a shaped or ig "refined" form of the pure force that is The Indifference

[grave jetty]

Do any missions cover who lotus is?

[chrome frost]

New war

[hollow siren]

yes

[grave jetty]

K

[chrome frost]

Prelude to war

[lean garden]

Oh and one more, arguably more damning thing:
If Garmi was Rell, then the ending of Chains of Harrow is pointless. Rell at the end of the quest is finally able to rest, putting the responsibility of holding wally back in our hands. If he was Garmi, still holding back wally, then what the hell was even the point of the rhetoric of finally letting him rest?

[slow bramble]

What if the minds and personalities were melded together?
Ego and Psychological death, but not spiritual?
Like, why are the Yuvan's personalities a factor, not just their looks? Especially since the Orokin clearly modify the bodies to appear specific ways anyway.

[hollow siren]

Natah, The Second Dream, Apostasy Prologue, Prelude to War, The New War, Lotus Eaters

[grave jetty]

I already finished natah but my nephew was screaming in my ear so I couldn't hear anything 😢

I'm on the second dream tho

[hollow siren]

replay it

[grave jetty]

How

[lean garden]

ehh, I think we need to be more clear what kind of psychoanalytical/psychological framework youre working with

[hollow siren]

same way you start quests: The Codex

[grave jetty]

Ah so its not like the spiral

[mossy zodiac]

booo jumpscare

[hollow siren]

Duviri Paradox is also a quest, and is thus in the Codex

There's a difference between Missions and Quests

[lean garden]

Part of it seems more like occams razored as the same way Oligarchs find new playthings. It wasnt so much that the personality mattered, but rather that they caught Orokin attention, and their sacrifice to further the Orokin continuity is their reward yknow?

[chrome frost]

While i agree I also have to point out that all of the indifference even wally is essentially multiple concepts mixed together and spat out unless we are talking about the indifference's clones of other people which are straight up just indifference putting on a fursuit of you. There is no "indifference" as a being, it's a mind copying other forms. And In my mind it's end goal is to embody itself, to no longer be bound to bodies of mortals but rather have its own body, a body it can call its self making it no longer dependant on mortals to interact with physical world

[lean garden]

you would like the Bonds of Love by Jessica Benjamin

I wonder if I have that text on this computer

[warm ingot]

Does the argon we craft into our foundry items return to the void too?

[chrome frost]

what is it about?

[lean garden]

Psychonalytical text about how we need each other to be able to know ourselves

in essence

[hollow siren]

Well no

[brittle siren]

No since it no longer an Argon. I think that it reduced to atom and spread all over the item to the point it no longer have the Argon properties

[hollow siren]

We can thank Archimedean Otak for that

[lean garden]

tl;dr
To know you exist, you need another to recognise you, but to determine that the other exists and is not a part of you, you must destroy them in your mind, and if they survive in the external world, they must indeed be not you.

[hollow siren]

Essentially rooted in skepticism

[graceful swan]

Why does this sound like something Vi- said

[lean garden]

Its not thats for sure

vi's shtick was uneducated rambling psychosis

[chrome frost]

who the hell is vi?

[lean garden]

some dangerously deranged person who got banned from the Warframe Community server

[chrome frost]

oh alright

[lean garden]

Constantly contradicting themselves as well as having rather disrespectful perspectives on more contemporary ways of thought

They genuinely believed that they were a god

You'd think they were trolling

but I found their political manifesto

[chrome frost]

oh so it was one of those "everyone is a simulation and when i look away yall freeze/dont exist" type of guy

[lean garden]

nope

well, not exactly

its more of "magic is real because we can write stories where they are real, therefore its real"

^ actual part of the manifesto by the way

like there was an overarching sense of losing grip on reality

[chrome frost]

....ok...that sounds deranged

[lean garden]

I wonder what Will-o-bee is going to say

they've been typing for so long

are you awake Will

are you holding down ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[graceful swan]

I sense a paragraph coming

[lean garden]

Must be a really long one

[slow bramble]

Yeah,
And I will be the first to admit I am probably thinking too hard about this. Just,
Well I'm a lot like Rell. I have Autism. And a background with child abuse.
Knowing the Orokin, knowing Ballas specifically, they go out of their way to be cruel. Going "poof" is basically the same as dying. Which is not the same as "becoming you,"
I think the kids still in there. In the backseat of their own mind. Whatever wants or impulses they have the Orokin owner would indulge. "Masquerading" as them but with power and wealth and any chance at rebellion being harshly crushed.
The actual person is shoved into a corner where their ego withers away to nothing. The victim and abusers desires "becoming one" because the victim was neglected
The most extreme possible form of codependency.
A "Golden Child" made literal

[lean garden]

Oh thats not as long as I thought

[lean garden]

I'll need to do more digging, but I initially thought there was something in continuity lore that implied the original personality still being stuck inside, but it wasnt in TWW

might be in Naberus etc

[hollow siren]

Ahh Bluva, the most non-canon canon thing in the game

[woven coyote]

If narberus it would mean the dubious bluva

[slow bramble]

I needed to put it into the right words

[slow bramble]

They just had the red stuff sitting in a hidden cabinet if the story is to be believed

[woven coyote]

Have you two checked voruna leverian for anything that might help clear things up?

[slow bramble]

Literally just came from that

It's what got me asking

[woven coyote]

I just got up so i dunno how much was discussed

[slow bramble]

"Are they the first void angels?" Is where it started

[slow bramble]

I'm over medicated. Which is why my stuff is taking so long

It's like I'm tipsy it's hard to put things together right

[woven coyote]

Understandable

[woven coyote]

On this topic the void angels seem to be born from the reliquary drive affecting people so i doubt the yuvans would have any connection

[strange turtle]

They also believed you could like, identify as a god, with capitalised pronouns and everything, and that religion is actually kink

[feral cape]

They were a fascinating individual

[hexed oxide]

where do i find the manifesto ? (DM if necessary)

[strange turtle]

I don’t actually know, I think Bau or Mediocre know it? But I did search it up and find related stuff

Dming

[lilac aspen]

My favorite Kuva flavor
Bluva

I always wonder if Bluva was like
The way to “test drive” a new body to double check if it’s the right body the Orokin wanted

[strange turtle]

You think light-coil thinkers were like Dune’s Mentats? Like as an in-between phase between artificial intelligence and the Cephalons

[tall echo]

I think it's just a pretentious way to say computer

[strange turtle]

Nah, they get mentioned in one of the Duvuri tablets

It’s some kind of drug or something that gives a “cerebral boost”

And with light-coil thinkers being brought up by Albrecht in the Vitruvian then people who were (presumably) regularly under the influence of these played a very significant role in history, and with there probably being a specific event that made the Orokin be so against AI (and it being a common trope) something major probably happened with it, so something Dune inspired would make sense

And it would progress neatly into Cephalonisation being a reward and not just a punishment and slavery, since it’d make sense to elevate them into an even more capable state and it’d deal with the issue of Thinkers’ service life. Plus it’d leave a gap in society for the Archimedeans to fill (higher caste of scientists/scholars)

[slow bramble]

Religious RP is certainly a kink
But I'm assuming they meant religion in and of itself right?

[brittle siren]

From this tablet, can we assume that us somehow know where is the real Wally finger?

27. How many fingers are found upon one's hand?

A. Five

B. Where are my fingerbones, kiddo? (correct)

[tall echo]

We can not

[sage moat]

is drillbit's head a lamp?

these are the real hardhitting lore questions

[tall echo]

The name is the answer

[sage moat]

drills aren't that big

unless the techrot appropriated like giant industrial machinery in which case i need a boss fight against a techrot infested crane right now

[tall echo]

It took over a tank

[sage moat]

true

[ashen pulsar]

I dont think so. that is before our time.

[brittle siren]

that tablet was clearly made by Wally after Duviri was created lmao

[ashen pulsar]

the fingers

not the tablet

the events regarding the fingers are from before we were born

[tall echo]

Eh, that's not confirmed

[brittle siren]

Not really confirmed
And even if it does, the Orokin hide it away, we just somehow know how to get it
There is zero chance that Wally would only want the OP but not Drifter for no reason, even if the OP is the one who get the deal

And seem like Wally really want the finger back no matter what

(Btw the "we know where it is" is kinda baseless since if OP know then Drifter should too, yet this is not the case, I'm just guessing 1 of the possibility)

[ashen pulsar]

albrecht discovered the finger, and a clone is aboard the zariman

its from when we were very little at minimum

[tall echo]

That doesn't specify any time frame

[feral cape]

He needed drifter save from us a timeloop

[sage moat]

the timeline could be
Operator is born
Finger stuff happens
Zariman happens

like realistically the timespan between albrecht's discovery of the void and the orokin boom with void tech could be like 2 years. once humans get our hands on tech we tend to think about every possible use for it within a week and start improving it immediately. i still don't think operator knows where My Fingerbones Are, Kiddo, but its a possibility. i just think we would've like. said something about it

[tall echo]

The operator was roughly a teen by the time of the zariman, that's a lot of time for the hyper smart guys to figure out stuff

[ashen pulsar]

in our 15 or so years of living he'd have to have traveled into the void, done a ton of research, made multiple clones, and published multiple books. this feels like a lot that would need to happen.

[sage moat]

honestly not really

[feral cape]

The issue is void science would be operating on entirely different rules

You'd essentially need to go back to before they discovered trigonometry

Thats where void science starts

[tall echo]

Void travel was still barely even figured out by the time of the jump

[sage moat]

classic orokin pride, messing with something they barely understand

"Sucks for Icarus, but I actually will feel the sun on my face and my wings of wax will be fine"
-Ballas, probably

[ashen pulsar]

sure but such a revolutionary technology could still have taken 15 years to refine

even if it was hasty

also, didn't the tenno age multiple more years after the jump? which makes our window even shorter

[tall echo]

Where are you getting that from

[ashen pulsar]

they had to return and live for some time at least, right?

weren't they in a war for a bit?

[tall echo]

They went from the void into cold storage into cryosleep with little time inbetween

[ashen pulsar]

when's the cutscene of them "killing" erras then

[tall echo]

Cryosleep

That's the second dream

[brittle siren]

Erra quest

[tall echo]

Not what he meant

[ashen pulsar]

how?

[tall echo]

Wdym "how"?

[ashen pulsar]

second dream, as in the quest? did they get taken out of cryosleep and put back in?

[tall echo]

The quest is named after the transference cryosleep

[ashen pulsar]

ye

[tall echo]

When killing erra the tenno aren't awake, that's lotus remote controlling them

Taking them out of the pods for a bit to atomize her brother

[ashen pulsar]

weird

[ashen pulsar]

how long tho

[tall echo]

Like

Just that short moment

[ashen pulsar]

oof

which came first, the void discovery or the old war

[tall echo]

Old war happened after the failed jump

[ashen pulsar]

okay I see

[tall echo]

Sentients were the last resort bc the colony ship couldn't do its thing

[ashen pulsar]

so we dont know enough to confidently state when albrecht entered the void, when the operator was born, etc.

we know they weren't born aboard the zariman

so I can't confidently state that it was before they were born

but it was obviously way out of their toddler-ish knowledge what happened to the finger

[brittle siren]

tbh building Zariman takes a lot of time, and seem like the Tenno are 13 at most

[ashen pulsar]

there was probably a good 10 years minimum of studying void energy before the zariman ngl

[brittle siren]

I think when Albrecht got the finger is much further into the past until it was fully develop the void tech, enough for them to confident to build Zariman

[ashen pulsar]

I agree

that's why I don't think the operator was alive, but we dont know for sure

[brittle siren]

so yeah it very likely the finger incident could be even before the parents were born too

[ashen pulsar]

they were potentially aboard the zariman for around a year or so more

[lean garden]

Huh?

Oh you mean when albrecht got the finger?

Yea good chance at that

[ashen pulsar]

the orokin empire existed for millions of years and all we know is that it's "near the end"

[brittle siren]

millions is kinda exaggerated

[lean garden]

Eh? Where did we get millions from

[brittle siren]

at most 2000 years counting from 1999

[ashen pulsar]

thousands sorry

[ashen pulsar]

wait rlly?

[lean garden]

Huh?

[brittle siren]

idk just guessing base on how advance they are

[lean garden]

Where did you get that from

[ashen pulsar]

it is probably thousands

[ashen pulsar]

but thats not evidence for a maximum

[lean garden]

"At most 2000 based on how advanced they are" has got to be one of the flimsiest metrics Ive seen today

[brittle siren]

I'm guessing, since 2000 is really a long long time, it couldn't have under a thousand since no trace of any "modern" building is left on earth

(beside Orokin's ofc)

[brittle siren]

I mean when the orokin rise up

not how long do their empire last

I need to rephrase a bit hold on

The Orokin Empire may have been founded 1,000-2,000 years in the future from 1999

[ashen pulsar]

id say they lasted for thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years, however.

[ashen pulsar]

sure.

they did conquer and completely change the entire solar system, leaving (afaik) no evidence of teh 1999 world

[tall echo]

How is this relevant

[brittle siren]

though I still think it pretty near 1999, because the Government that create Scaldra has Orokin mindset

[ashen pulsar]

I exaggerated millions and we got distracted

[brittle siren]

oh it stem from Melpo stalking about how long did the Empire last

They were deranged children run amok. Centuries of progress - destroyed. But they never destroyed me. Never caught me. And our end only proved our correctness... that our laws had been just. Too late. But. It's never too late, is it, Nora?

[lean garden]

China today still has holdovers of China 5000 years ago, this is a weak point

[brittle siren]

oh so it hundreds of years

[ashen pulsar]

whats the quote?

[brittle siren]

I mean to be fair, 18 nuclear war may destroy everything + Orokin build on the old foundation
Irl we tend to preserve, though a lot of empire also destroys ancient architects

[tall echo]

Nihil

[lean garden]

If thats the case then arbitrarily assuming that it must be near 1999 is likewise weak

[brittle siren]

but the government seem already have the Orokin Empire plan out

[ashen pulsar]

its prob a few thousand years, I agree with that

[brittle siren]

iirc it from Velimir chat

[lean garden]

We have oligarchs today with the Orokin Plan

As shmucky as the Orokin are, they're hardly original

[brittle siren]

I mean
if I not wrong, Velimir said they literally going enslave the poor in the farm and the rich live somewhere safe

[lean garden]

... have you looked around lately?

[brittle siren]

at least they not yet touch anything too significant on the Moon (and we have no Infested creature)

[ashen pulsar]

when do we use risky incomplete technology to send families to a hospitable planet trillions of light years away

[brittle siren]

"We're talking "remake the world into their oligarchic dystopia" where us peasants live to serve them and rake the fields and kiss their golden feet." Minerva

[tall echo]

And we only had one radiation war so far

[lean garden]

We have?

[tall echo]

WW2

[brittle siren]

tbh the only different between irl and government in warframe is, the Techrot/Infested as catalyst

[tall echo]

I'm assuming the orokin only counted major big-time conflicts ofc

[brittle siren]

technically, it was USA out of spite throw them down on Japan

it was going to use against the N*zi but they were defeated too soon

so USA wanna test somewhere, and guess who just touch their island

ngl this sound so much like Ballas

[ashen pulsar]

fat man prime when

[brittle siren]

Tsar Bomba Prime

btw does the Orokin have no "nuclear" level of weapon or above? Like they did make the infested bomb but against the Sentient, even nuclear bomb would be effective too

[tall echo]

Cascade bombs

Those clear out all life in a place while leaving the terrain unharmef iirc

[brittle siren]

I forgot Sevagoth ship has a blackhole bomb

[brittle siren]

i see

[tall echo]

That might've just been a void corruption thing tbf

[brittle siren]

well it said Sevagoth is charging the weapon iirc

Cy: Tempestarii is charging unidentified countermeasures. Stay in range. Swat down pests

[verbal dock]

Scaldra was a merc company i think

It wasn't government made

[lean garden]

As much as we had the use of nuclear weapons at the end of WW2, I don't think even our egghead historians today would count it as a radiation war

Had the cold war turned hot, now that would have been our first radiation war

[cunning wave]

@ashen pulsar if ballas was the one who started infestation, doesnt that make him the creators of grineer queens? Since they looked like combo of kuva blood and infested?

[ashen pulsar]

iirc the grineer are descended from clones of the orokin

[cunning wave]

Uhm whats iirc

[ashen pulsar]

if i remember correctly

[cunning wave]

Oh.. did they mention that in the quests?

[ashen pulsar]

yeah, so grineer aren't born, they're just kinda produced.

[cunning wave]

Yeah

Created right?

[hollow siren]

Grineer were worker clones created by the Orokin. Modern Grineer are the degenerated clone-descendants of the old Orokin-era Grineer

[ashen pulsar]

the elder queen is actually an orokin

using a grineer body

[hollow siren]

both queens are

[cunning wave]

Doesnt that make every grineer containing kuva blood? Because we saw the queen giving the blood to someone who avenged smth ?

[hollow siren]

That shows the creation of a Kuva Lich

[cunning wave]

Ohhh

[ashen pulsar]

oh, both?

[cunning wave]

I seeee thats cool

[hollow siren]

the Kuria scans tell their story

[cunning wave]

Soo what is protea made from?

[ashen pulsar]

anyways, they are still using the faulty broken orokin tech, which is why elder queen wanted to steal our body

[hollow siren]

Parvos stole Entrati tech, had Protea made as a deal with Ballas

[cunning wave]

Ahh i knew.. it was the entrati tech!! I was doubting it

[hollow siren]

The tech is not faulty, it's that the source genome was lost during the Old War, hence the Clone Rot

[hollow siren]

https://youtu.be/t0ONmP3TGZ4?si=vpi8UdDBR7GPBhzj

[cunning wave]

Yeah i saw every trailers multiple times