lore-discussion

[proper barn]

During.

[restive river]

I mean maybe but like
Why make a frame to kill the tenno when we know how that goes

[proper barn]

Not after.

[restive river]

Nothing confirms Ballas having anything to do with Caliban afaik though
It’s possible ofc

[swift steppe]

extremely dumb decision xD

[lilac aspen]

Probably why Caliban wasn’t used then if he existed since the Old War

“Let’s use Caliban to kill them!”
“Caliban, a warframe.”
“Yeah a-“
“Something the Tenno can pilot.”
“I mean when you say it like th-“
“The same Tenno who has access to a power he can’t adapt to either.”
“….”

[swift steppe]

what does the last sentence mean

[restive river]

Me when the power is basic human empathy and compassion (Ballas doesn’t know what those are)

[strange plinth]

Ballas is only confirmed to be in contact with Hunhow and Natah/Lotus
and yeah looking at caliban's stuff again, it only mentions Erra.
"heir of twin kingdoms" is basically all we have in the collaboration aspect

[lilac aspen]

Caliban passive is he can adapt a resistance to damage as a reference to his sentient nature

Sentients cannot adapt to the Void.
Tenno use the void as their weapon.

[restive river]

Erra made him and that’s all we know

[swift steppe]

oh

[restive river]

I would love if Caliban Prime is just
Ballas going “woah you made a frame? Nah I’ll show you how it’s done crab boy.”

[strange plinth]

crab boy-

[restive river]

Sentients can’t adapt to basic empathy and compassion either

[swift steppe]

why crab boy

[restive river]

Hunhow is a crab

Erra is his son

[swift steppe]

girl hes a ship??

wait what

[strange plinth]

the sentients hit the classic carcinization trick

[restive river]

He’s got a crabish design lol

[swift steppe]

oh yeah

[lilac aspen]

“Look at this work. Dull, Shabby, imperfect. Allow me to show you the perfect talent we golden ones have, Son of Hunhow.”

[restive river]

“Why did you just make amongus?”
“Funni”

[strange plinth]

that's actually a really good line wth

[swift steppe]

fr

[restive river]

DE knew what they were doing when they made Caliban an amongus helmet

[strange plinth]

i've never seen it before but that's totally amongus yeah

[lilac aspen]

DE make his prime trailer have him jump out of a vent when Ballas says something like

“Though the design suspiciously looks familiar.”

[restive river]

I hope if he gets a prime trailer has a back and fourth between him and Erra

I also hope Gyre gets one and that it’s Ballas talking about the Zariman, maybe alluding to Gyra

[swift steppe]

wait what what helmet is that

[restive river]

His default one

[swift steppe]

huh

oh wait LMAO YOURE RIGHT

[restive river]

LOL

[swift steppe]

i wish yareli had a signature primary weapon

[lilac aspen]

Amogus frame
He’s part Sentien-
What if they used him to sneak into the warframe groups during battles

[swift steppe]

• her kompressa i mean

[swift steppe]

oh no

[lilac aspen]

Allowed him to be true sus

[valid pewter]

is the operator cannonically the only active tenno?

if so, do dojos and clans not actually exist in universe?

[lean garden]

no

[strange plinth]

no, operator isn't the only active tenno
they are the "main character" though
and there's only one drifter

iirc the fortuna and zariman events had proper numbers

[lean garden]

and they do exist

[valid pewter]

oh ok fire

anyone know a how many are around?

[lean garden]

no real numbers

we know that there is at least 400 based on pods we see during Erra

[valid pewter]

interesting, it definitely makes more sense that there would be a lot but for some reason i had it in my head that there’s only one

thanks!

[strange plinth]

i feel like someone was telling me it was in upper 5 digits or lower 6 digits
can't find the message though

[lilac aspen]

Shout out to lotus for taking care of so many children

[humble sierra]

I think DE confirmed it shortly after he dropped.

Nothing definitive in game though, you're correct

[silk atlas]

I mean I'd be kinda messed up if the first two lines mentioning Primes in his description somehow had absolutely nothing to do with the third sentence that follows directly after.

[dense salmon]

Nah they have a Sentient specifically for that, Mimics like the Lotus

The thing I'm confused is that, is Caliban technically an Archon?

genuinely he seems so... forgotten for a Frame with as much weight in the narrative as the Sentient Warframe, even if Revenant came first

[lilac aspen]

He is a very odd frame
Mixture of sentient and warframe technology basically

I just want to learn more about the shards

Anti-entropy things

[sage moat]

i imagine temple prime is gonna be ballas's original design

but also, temple being a design that ballas thought was too rebellious to finish is great

"man, this thing is way too cool. the orokin would cut my funding"

[old dome]

yareli 🤝 temple: too rebellious for ballas to handle

[brittle siren]

well Hunhow did adapt to a certain degree to that

[brittle siren]

though I think does Temple even exist in the Orokin Era? I thought he was exclusively from Flare only

[sage moat]

they* and... i don't know

i think theres time travel stuff or something? i haven't finished flare's good ending

[tall echo]

Yes

[sage moat]

and i gotta reset at the monthly reset cause i messed up minerva and velimir

im actually kinda excited to see lizzie KNOW i reset at the good ending and be like "Demon WHY DID YOU DO THAT"

[brittle siren]

sorry keep typing out of habbit again

[tall echo]

Physically because flare vibed in a rock until the revolution, not physically because ballas still designed temple

[sage moat]

all good! i believe you've said english isn't your first language and a TON of languages struggle with non-binary pronouns

[brittle siren]

does he? since Lizzie clearly not from Temple but from Flare

[tall echo]

Eh it's more like "hehe nice try"

[tall echo]

Good end flare email

[brittle siren]

ah not it because i keep imagine his male physique in my head and the word "he" pop up

[tall echo]

There are a lot of frames that got one or more abilities later story-wise

For example lavos has none of his abilities before the leverian story

[brittle siren]

oh lmao how tf I missed it

also that confirm that the first batch of any frame become the principal for other batch

[restive river]

Eh idk if I’d call that adapting
More so it changed him, slowly sure but does seem to be changing him

[tall echo]

Cool detail that all his abilities either use some machine or the snakes

[restive river]

They’re not a he nor a she, doesn’t matter what pops up in your head

[tall echo]

Unbased

[brittle siren]

ah no no, I'm just saying that out of habbit, their adult male model confuse my head a bit

[restive river]

I wouldn’t say they’re male at all tbh

[brittle siren]

it not intentional

[tall echo]

Temple is very much just neutral in design and flare is too

[sage moat]

can we post gifs or will we be killed

they let us say ass now idk if the gifs are also unbanned

[brittle siren]

I mean Flare outside looks like any male rock singer I saw, but again I do not against Flare sexual orientation at all, it just a mistake due to me typing fast

[tall echo]

Gotta type slower with the amount of mistakes then

[brittle siren]

Xaku is easy to not slip up but Flare specically is kinda hard when I typing too fast

[restive river]

Just try to do your best to not call them by male pronouns

[brittle siren]

understood

[restive river]

Like you wouldn’t do it with an actual person, I assume you’d do your best to respect their pronouns

[tall echo]

Or double check before hitting send

[restive river]

Ye

[tall echo]

No one holding a gun to your head forcing you to type at lightspeed

[brittle siren]

I will be careful next time

[restive river]

They should let us say what drifter and kaya are (or used to be) allowed to say

[hot verge]

I wonder if Corrupted ancients spawned by void-storms (Fissures) into areas that are otherwise clear of infestation are capable of causing more infestation?

[hot verge]

or would they be the equivelant of "Sterile" due to the tower's Neural sentry corruption ?

[proper barn]

Well we know of infestation that can purposeful not spread spores or at least reduce it.

Cuz otherwise our warframes would just be spore nation.

Same with helminth.

[hot verge]

Right of course, and Nidus especially on the warframe front, but like

I mean specifically in regards to Ancients, right, and like.. say a void-storm/fissure moves on from an area and most of the corrupted are dealt with either by Tenno, or whatever faction resides on that location normally.

when a void-storm/Fissure ends... do the corrupted get.. disconnected from the neural sentry? do they just.. de-spawn?

[proper barn]

They probably just return to the Void.

[strange plinth]

get argon'd

[hot verge]

hrmm.. I guess that would also explain the corrupted's presence in the undercroft..

Iunno I kinda vaguely like the idea of after a fissure or void-storm ends, the corrupted that are left there after are just kinda.. disconnected from the neural sentry

But y'all are prolly right about just returning to the void or whatever if they don't get cleansed.

[humble sierra]

We've got some information recently about Argon returning to the void when it decays, not just dissolving into thin air

[tall echo]

Which technically means that saying they decay is no longer correct

[brittle siren]

I mean when an object decaying they turn into another form (like water turn into steam), so Argon decay is still true, it just the way it go away is literally void teleport

[tall echo]

Which is not decay

It's return to sender

[north robin]

Hi o/. I got into an argument with a friend about drifter. So I wanted to ask those who know more. I’ll put a spoiler just in case ||Main point is: Are we the only Tenno who has a Drifter? We’re not the only Tenno, not the only one who got powers, therefore made a deal with Wally. And given how Operator and Drifter became a thing after deal was made, is there any other drifters? I read it as our drifter is the only one who remained alive, not as we are the only one.|| feels like I missed a page somewhere where it’s explained

[graceful swan]

There's many Tenno but only one Drifter canonically

[north robin]

Only one from the very start?

[graceful swan]

Most things and all people from Drifters timeline are gone

[north robin]

Originally we were talking as to why we are the chosen Tenno, and I thought that we are chosen because of drifter and then it was a long discussion if we are the only Tenno with a drifter

[north robin]

Does Holdfast count as from the drifters timeline?

[graceful swan]

There's Holdfasts in both

Drifter states the only things left from his timeline is Zariman and Duviri

[north robin]

My main point of not understanding is: do we have a drifter because he’s the only one left, and we don’t know about others; or were we somehow special and only we had a drifter in the first place

Because if others are gone, and the only thing remaining is Zariman and duviri, were there any other drifters? And does drifter remaining only one alive makes us chosen Tenno somehow down the line

[humble sierra]

Yes, the player is not the only Operator, but they are the only one to to make the deal— and thus they're the only one with a variant who got screwed over in said deal

[north robin]

But then it’s just more questions towards Wally. How did others gain powers if we’re the only one to make a deal?

[graceful swan]

Because the deal was save them not save you

[north robin]

Wally is weird….

[humble sierra]

Everyone got powers thanks to us making the deal, basically we just bought a family combo

[graceful swan]

“I can save them all of them, you just have to want it”

[humble sierra]

The split happens because Drifter got screwed over in the paperwork, where Wally takes advantage of the word "Them"

So everyone but Drifter got saved

We don't know how exactly, but the end result is that they're alone on the Zariman.

My personal theory is that Wally just teleported them away

[north robin]

I want to ask: Why us? But then I know that no one knows that, no one but Wally that is

[humble sierra]

We seem to have taken a bit of a leadership role during that part, I'm guessing that's why he was drawn to us

But its also entirely possible he chose us before the Jump was even made

[north robin]

Hmmmm, makes sense

Wanted the most duty bounded one who would like 90% make a deal no questions asked

[graceful swan]

We were the first child to go up to him

[north robin]

Hmmmm

[humble sierra]

It's possible we were the only one who noticed he was even there too

Or rather the only one who could see him (besides of course, Rell [gigachad.gif])

[north robin]

I didn’t thought of Wally only interacting with us, everyone got powers so I assumed everyone had some kind of deal

[north robin]

I want to build Harrow just out of respect for Rell, I don’t even know what harrow does

[north robin]

Looking for the most mentally stable does sound like a good plan

[humble sierra]

I own him but haven't played him too much, I think extra crit damage, binding enemies in place, extra energy on kills c and extra DR/shield?

[north robin]

I do have like 4 other frames sitting in the limbo of foundry

[woven coyote]

@north robin
1 cc and shield gen
2 life steal and fire rate
3 energy on kill
4 invuln, damage while invuln charges flat crit chance

Both 3 and 4 get multiplied by 4 on headshots

[feral cape]

Drop his 3 for evade and thats where the fun happens

[hot verge]

....Do Orowyrms exist outside of Duviri and the void? (Lore wise specificially, not talking about the tiny adorable lil Orowyrm in the skybox)

and... On Deimos.. Are Fass and Vome.... infestation corrupted Orowyrms?

[graceful swan]

Orowryms exist in the book too

Fass and Vome are real not book characters

[hot verge]

That's not what I asked.

If it's in Duviri it of course is in the book, that wasn't what I meant.

[graceful swan]

The book is outside of Duviri fictional or not and is taught in the real world

[proper barn]

i think Zari means

Do like Things called Orowyrms exist as real things.

[graceful swan]

They can't be outside of the Void because they are from a book made real by the Void and can only stay in the Void thus far

[hot verge]

~Groans~

[graceful swan]

There's the Void tunnel Orowrym but that's the closest we get to outside of the Void

[lean garden]

....Do Orowyrms exist outside of Duviri and the void?
Probably not, since they were artefacts of the book
and... On Deimos.. Are Fass and Vome.... infestation corrupted Orowyrms?
Also not really, nothing would suggest anything of the like except "long"

[hot verge]

Ravenous Golden Maws exist outside of Duviri and the void and so on, They exist as an orokin creation, not unlike the orokin made fish on both Deimos and the Vallis.

I was asking if Orowyrms exist in "Reality" inside warframe, as in outside of the void, outside of the storybook.

The reason I ask this is because in various item descriptions of fass or vome residue they are referred to as "Wyrms" in the same way that the Orowyrms are.
Wyrm just meaning enormous dragon-like thing without wings I guess.

[hot verge]

THANK YOU. that was the response I was actually asking for.

[lean garden]

"Wyrms" in the same way that the Orowyrms are.
Wyrm just meaning enormous dragon-like thing without wings I guess.
Well.... Sentients are also called wyrms at times so

or was it just worm

[hot verge]

I think that was just "Worm" and not Wyrm but I could be wrong I guess.

[lean garden]

nah it was just worm

[hot verge]

s'wat I thought.

[lean garden]

Ravenous Golden Maws exist outside of Duviri and the void and so on
The funny thing about that... where have we seen a ravenous golden maw?

[hot verge]

The War within which could be considered to have happened inside the Tenno's mind, but I question that given that Teshin was also there, how tf did teshin get into our minds?

I still dunno how I feel about that tbh.

[lean garden]

Well, it was in your mind

so like, does the maw actually exist?

[graceful swan]

The only places you'll ever find an Orowrym is

Duviri
Void
Void tunnel thing from Citrine mission

[proper barn]

i got distracted sorry.

bau is right though.

@hot verge this also reminds me of my favorite lore question i like asking people which i will ask you. Are kaith real? as in was there a real version of kaiths?

[graceful swan]

Horses

[proper barn]

nem

i didn't ask you. also they wouldn't be called horses.

I like asking this question to new people.

cuz it's fun discussion and thought experiment.

[hot verge]

Yes, there would have to be Kaithes, because Dagath exists, and had her Kaithe, and was never directly involved in the Duviri situation.

[proper barn]

they don't ever call it a kaith just a steed.also she was a cavalry woman.

[restive river]

Drifter: What's a horse? (QuincyRank2Convo2 •

[proper barn]

do you think kaiths just looked like

duviri kaiths with skin?

[restive river]

Drifter: Oh. Yeah. Kaithes. They sound similar to "horses" but they're... skeletal. (QuincyRank2Convo2

[proper barn]

Drifter wouldn't have ever seen a kaithe that's non skeletal.

[hot verge]

Something like that, I'd Imagine they weren't just horses, but something a bit further along in both evolution and Orokin genetic manipulation

[restive river]

What

Oh
Yeah lol

[proper barn]

Drifter isn't a calvary person. Or a orokin. They seemingly spent most of their live on the zariman.

but yeah Zari you are maybe right. Cuz Dax are a main enemy in duviri.

and they are a real thing in orokin society.

[hot verge]

I mean after all the reason Kubrows and Kavats exist as they do is because of a mixture of evolution and Orokin's genetic manipulation nonsense.

[restive river]

So thing is right
Grandmother talks about how Dagath, when she was a Dax, had a horse
But Drifter doesn’t know what a horse is, only a kaithe
But Dagath has kaithes not just horses

[proper barn]

yeah.

[hot verge]

Yep, Dagath was a dax, and so was Umbra.

[proper barn]

that makes it Intresting Ducky.

[hot verge]

and so is/was Teshin.

[proper barn]

also Orokin are most likely to say like

Horse or Dog. See Worm queen.

[restive river]

So best guess is that Kaithes are the names for the horse equivalents but to the Orokin, the older Orokin they call them by their old earth names

[proper barn]

cuz they actually know about history.

[hot verge]

right right.

[restive river]

Teshin still is
You’re forgetting Varzia
And there’s an untold amount of frames that were also Dax

[proper barn]

Gara?

I think gara prime was.

[restive river]

I don’t recall but it’s possible ye

We know Yareli was a yuvan

[hot verge]

I said is/was because he both is and isn't alive, due to being now trapped in duviri as old-wizardman teshin.

[restive river]

No he. He is alive

[strange turtle]

He’s completely alive

[proper barn]

as alive as someone in the void can be.

[strange turtle]

He’s just not in the Origin System anymore

[hot verge]

This.

[restive river]

This isn’t shrödinger’s teshin

[proper barn]

also he said he might have died.

in his talk to the drifter.

[hot verge]

Double this.

[restive river]

Teshin is in Duviri, the safest part of the void

[proper barn]

yes.

that is true.

[hot verge]

so he might be more alive in the same or a similar sense to the Holdfasts.

[proper barn]

i can get the Shadow Wizard money gang teshin qoute though.

[restive river]

Like Teshin did die during the Duviri Paradox but we noped that

[restive river]

No, he isn’t a void construct

[hot verge]

Cuz the holdfasts are def not "Alive" and they know it.

[proper barn]

eh

Let me get it though.

[restive river]

If he was like the holdfasts he’d need to feed off of something

And he’s just chilling, he’s scarred at the most, but he was healed and is definitely living

He’s not a void ghost he’s still Teshin, same body, same mind.

He’s not a conceptually embodied void echo of him he is him

At most the duvirians conceptually embodied him to health
Which
I doubt

[proper barn]

i found the qoute i wanted.

you might still be right btw Ducky.

I just wanted to find this cuz i rememebered it.

[graceful swan]

Teshin was almost dead when he entered Duviri

[restive river]

Erra snapped his neck but uh. We know his history with killing Dax

Varzia:

[tall echo]

He tried to stab his brain*

Can't snap someone's neck by squeezing their head

[graceful swan]

Can you snap a brain?

[tall echo]

Brain stem maybe

[restive river]

Not through the cool table hat tho

[lilac aspen]

The worse thing to imagine is Erra caved his head in

But managed to survive long enough when he was sucked into the Void

Since
Brains are weird organs

[restive river]

I mean even aside from that the fall shoulda killed him tbh
But he clearly wasn’t all dead since the Duvirians were capable of healing him

And again, I really doubt they conceptually embodied him back to life :p

Teshin’s not like the holdfasts

[humble sierra]

Varzia also survived the head attack from Erra

I'd like to imagine it's just not a lethal move whatsoever

[plush phoenix]

varzia is lowkey built different since she's bisexual though

[humble sierra]

I think it's more likely Drifter/Duviri itself did that, so the storybook now has a wizened mentor to guide the hero on their quest

[lilac aspen]

I think the difference between Varzia and Teshin though is Erra probably saw Teshin as a much bigger threat

Cause bro was still throwing hands with Erra despite the Namor thingie trying to control him

Meanwhile Erra like
Command grabbed Varzia before the Tenno and Lotus showed up

[tall echo]

Ah yes, my favorite pharaoh, namor

[restive river]

Didn’t it literally say the duvirians healed him? :p

Yeah

One was the monk Teshin, who fell from the sky into the lake on the island we now call Hermit's Landing. Seemingly lifeless, he was dragged ashore by Mathila who nursed his return to health. I have never known a constitution to match his; yet unlike us, he has… deteriorated… with the passing of time.

He was seemingly lifeless, on the brink of death but Mathila nursed him back to health

Teshin is too tough to die, even when it seems like he should’ve died

[tall echo]

Teshin is doomguy but with anger control

[restive river]

Omg the Dax were a buncha doomguys…

[lilac aspen]

Technically Doomguy has anger control
Only focuses his rage towards Demons

[digital grail]

Bisexuals have metal bones like wolverine

[nova kayak]

im cracking that bih

[brittle siren]

question: does the dagger in Kullervo deluxe could also consider as cigarette?

[tall echo]

??

[brittle siren]

his splash art literally him holding it like he is using cigarette

[charred patio]

wait
why is my message the golden one???

[viral vessel]

Is the hex team orokin or were they way later?

[graceful swan]

Outside of Albrecht going to the past there’s no Orokin in 1999

[viral vessel]

But technically it's the same race just different time period?

[proper barn]

Orokin aren't a race.

They are just body modified humans. They aren't special in any other way they just want people to think they are.

[graceful swan]

Orokin is a social class

[proper barn]

Yeah.

You can even get the funny blue skin if you want.

[hollow siren]

The Orokin era is millenia later than that, if not even more

[viral vessel]

Right ok

[hollow siren]

and yeah what others said above about what "Orokin" even is

we can see on Albrecht in Whispers that, while his skin is still very blue compared to Loid, it is not nearly the same hue as people like Ballas, Nihil or the rest of the Entrati

So his post-rejuvenation body isn't as heavily modified as one normally would be

he also lacks the signature enlarged right arm

[lean garden]

He replaced it with an enlarged audacity

[quick wadi]

What if we got it all wrong and they were shrinking their left arms

[hollow siren]

Then they must have some real monkey biology cause Ballas' right hand is like the size of his head

[quick wadi]

Hey those orokin are wild

[tall echo]

Other people don't have gigantic arms so probably not

Orokin are just modified humans

Remember; there are no aliens in warframe

[hollow siren]

the closest we get to "aliens" are the Sentient Beasts as they were born in Tau, and the Original Sentinels but they could be tied to the Helminth

[tall echo]

All sentients are also not alien because they are man-made machines

[hollow siren]

yeah

hence the Sentient Beasts, who were created by Hunhow and Praghasa in Tau, are the closest we get to actual aliens

[tall echo]

Sentinels are related to sentients according to the cephalon fragment

[hollow siren]

They bear a resemblance to Sentients, but all the originals seem to be made from bio-tech rather than Sentient tech, and they showed immediate allegiance/affection to the Tenno

[graceful swan]

The closest we get to aliens are Murmur

[hollow siren]

they're more interdimensional than extraterrestial

[tall echo]

Still alien

[brittle siren]

But Albrecht never got his arm "buff", so it not the case

[brittle siren]

So is "god" considered as alien too (unrelated kinda)

[hollow siren]

Personally I moreso use the term "alien" for interplanetary/interstellar things

Not interdimensional

[tall echo]

By definition, alien just means different

It's mostly used for space creatures but alien is where the word "alienate" originated from

[brittle siren]

Tbh the Indifference is beyond our comprehension anyway, so caling his "parts" as alien would not sound right

[misty helm]

Technically speaking, as Scrap said, if it doesn't fit under an established criteria (humanity) then it may aswell be called 'alien', so long as the differentiating criteria stays the same.

[brittle siren]

I mean, sure, but we have vast amount of word that describes them better than "alien"

[misty helm]

Given the term couldn't be applied to planets no more (since it expanded with the apparent normalization of humans inhabiting other planets than earth), 'Alien' could be instead applied to virtually anything outside the origin system, prehaps.

Including Tau-born Sentients, as someone stated above.

[brittle siren]

Sentients is still a robot made by human though. Since Praghasa and Hunhow is not there, idk if there even any sentient can reproduce anymore. Sure they can adapt and make more "Tau-born" Sentient, but we for now don't know anything about that

It like saying cow send to the moon turn green make them an alien (it's a metaphor)

Lmao scam bot in the great 2025 🥀

[restive river]

Everything in Warframe is human or comes from humans

[misty helm]

Absolutely. Though I can't recall if we've even seen Tau itself.

[graceful swan]

DE didn’t add good enough stuff to stop it

[restive river]

We have not

[restive river]

The real reason the Orokin were against AI

[graceful swan]

Only a Mag has

[brittle siren]

Well Duviri and Wally is not really direct from human, it just the void use their memory to make stuffs

[misty helm]

By definition, if you took somebody from Lua (born there and everything) and took it to, say Saturn, people living on Saturn could technically refer to the person from Lua as an 'alien'.

[graceful swan]

Albrecht calls himself Wally’s creator

[restive river]

The sentients, even the tau-born are spawned from humans
The Indifference’s true origins are unknown and likely will never be revealed but time and time again has it been alluded to that Albrecht’s first visit is what influenced the indifference, it would not be what it is now without him

[brittle siren]

Well he not purposely doing that though

[lean garden]

Duviri not direct from human? Well it sure seems directly from Drifter's noggin

[brittle siren]

Well its story is from the Mother, but the material land and people certainly not made by her hand or Drifter, it from the void doing all of that

[restive river]

Duviri is literally directly from humans
The void doesn’t do anything on it’s own, it’s only through conscious human minds with emotions and concepts have things been born and influenced.

[graceful swan]

Loads of things are made by accident doesn’t change the fact of creation

[brittle siren]

Fair enough

[lean garden]

The story made by mother in Drifter's head drawn out into material reality from the Drifter's head.

You'd have to bend over backwards to pretend human involvement wasnt critical

[graceful swan]

Both the book and the live action adaptation were made by humans

[restive river]

Different definitions of alien :p
by this point it’s semantics but nothing in Warframe is alien, it’s all human or heavily influenced by humans
The only things that are truly “alien” is the void itself and maybe the infestation, both producing and changing thanks to humanity.

[brittle siren]

Lmao live action adaptation

[graceful swan]

It’s even getting a spin off soon

[brittle siren]

Disney is the void confirmed

[brittle siren]

Strange that even 1999 came out and we still don't know what is the Infested. Is it experiment like Umbrella Inc in Resident Evil, or an mutated cell from asteroids that evolved into Techrot/Infested?

Or both tbh

[restive river]

I mean we know to an extent the techrot, specifically the coda is due to Scaldra experimentation and production

[graceful swan]

Techrot were the side characters of 1999 unless you count the Hex

[restive river]

I do think we will never get a proper answer similar to Wally
The infestation is an eldritch entity, it’s origin may never be known but it will always be influenced by humanity

[graceful swan]

As most things are in Warframe

[brittle siren]

Also interestingly that infested in the current day can't infect the life support like techrot did in 1999

[restive river]

Warframe is very big on “it’s all humans or influenced by humans”

[restive river]

Orokin bred it out of them

[brittle siren]

Though it could be the Lotus make those life support immune to the spore

Since the whole ship life support is dead anyway

[graceful swan]

Isn’t Lotus immune to it

[brittle siren]

Idk, Sentient still avoiding Infested though

[restive river]

I think they sorta stalemate

[brittle siren]

They both afraid of the void that for sure

[graceful swan]

They remember what happened last time

[restive river]

Sentients have to constantly adapt while the infestation tries to subsume them

[restive river]

One out of physical fear and the other out of mental

One is damaged the other can’t spread it’s gift

[brittle siren]

https://tenor.com/view/chuckles-im-in-danger-ralph-wiggum-the-simpsons-gif-14149962

[graceful swan]

Unstoppable Force
Almost Immovable Object

[brittle siren]

Caliban when see Helminth

[restive river]

Lmao

[brittle siren]

Also what is the ball inside Caliban? Like other Sentient nor Warframe has that orb in them

[graceful swan]

What ball?

[brittle siren]

Oh that the core

[hollow siren]

that is his Core, yes

[brittle siren]

I forgot Sentient have core

[graceful swan]

Erra has a red one iirc

We don’t see Lotus’s but she definitely has one somewhere

[hollow siren]

yeah, she's a Mimic so it's hidden under her "disguise"

[brittle siren]

Ah no that not his core, that the red orb from Ballas use to control ppl. Because before Ballas and Erra show their true intentions to Natah, he doesn't have that orb

It like the red thing above his throne too

[hollow siren]

it's Kuva or something alike to it IIRC.

[brittle siren]

Made from kuva I think, since the texture is the same and Kuva can interact with human brain

I remember Unum use her unique kuva blood on animal and kinda mind control them (and whispering the future for ppl in Cetus)

[hollow siren]

her blue Temple Kuva, yeah

[graceful swan]

Nothing says she has bluva just temple Kuva

[hollow siren]

it's blue in TNW when we remove Narmer's influence over it

[graceful swan]

We only shoot the crystals not the Kuva

Unless you got pics of her actual Kuva

[misty helm]

Speaking of which, do we get more lore on the Unum beyond of what we see on TNW?

[hollow siren]

Gara fragments

[brittle siren]

Not really beside Koumei may have connection to Unum

[hollow siren]

and some of the Glass Fish scans

[restive river]

Bluva is still unknown whether or not it actually exists beyond a spooky story

[graceful swan]

Grandma should really label her stories as Non Fiction and Fiction

Would be easier to understand

[restive river]

Yeahhh

Only one story has been proven to be true so far

The other two are more dubious

[tall elm]

wait 3 stories?

dagath, naberous and?

[proper barn]

the werewolf story.

[restive river]

Dagath, the bluva story and the lycablight story

Which of those dagath’s is true
Bluva is dubious
And lycanblight could be true but could be false, it has actual cosmetics that could point to it being true unlike the bluva story

Also naberous is the holiday not an individual story

It’s halloween but more death related iirc

[graceful swan]

Dagath one is true because Dagath is living proof

[tall elm]

lycablight, refresh what that was about

where can you hear it

i remember the cosmetics but i dont remember the story at all

[graceful swan]

The decoration sold each Halloween same way as the Bluva story

[hollow siren]

last Naberus daughter sold the wolf head trophy

[tall elm]

huh, i didnt see that i guess

[restive river]

Grineer got infected by infested kubrows, basically a werewolf story
I’d say it could be more plausible because of the cosmetics existing and being more concrete than the bluva puppet decoration but at the same time idk how Grandmother would know about it so I’m inclined to say it’s a spooky story

[tall elm]

we dont like ai here

[hollow siren]

https://tenor.com/view/eww-dude-gif-25103066

[tall elm]

not even the right channel

[night python]

Ok?
So rather than being a jerk how about you tell me where else i could put them?

[hollow siren]

Nowhere, this server does not condone generative AI

[night python]

but its fan art

i just found the channel

[hollow siren]

even if it was allowed, this is the lore channel

[night python]

so w.e

[night python]

Wierdo

[tall elm]

weird to not like the plagerism machine?

[hollow siren]

I'm not Normal about Sentients and even I hate that

[restive river]

Ai generated art isn’t fan art, bud

[barren jasper]

he joined literally JUST to post an ai image in the wrong channel

[restive river]

bruh

[barren jasper]

reminds me of a time someone posted an ai image of something that looked vaguely similar to the operator voidshell and then asked "when will warframe add space suits"

[gleaming hare]

I have something very important. So in the opening cinematic, this stranger places Lotus flowers in front of the warframes. I notice she is wearing the "Veneth Earpiece" cosmetic for Operator/drifter.

Is she a Tenno as well?
She does vanish into void... mist, before the Grineer show up.

[hollow siren]

Take that cinematic with a grain of salt

[strange plinth]

eh
iirc she's a "stand-in" for the player's tenno
but that cinematic isn't completely lore accurate, particularly with her

[hollow siren]

it's moreso for marketing than full accuracy

Has some correct details, but also some liberties

[gleaming hare]

So a mystery for now unless DE go "muck it, New Canon to be added"

[hollow siren]

she's the stand-in for the player in the cinematic trailers, she's in the TNW trailer too

[mossy zodiac]

always remember ballas is a yareli hater

[gleaming hare]

Wait then my question is answered

[restive river]

Huh??? 😭
We literally have had space suits since the second dream

[hollow siren]

even before then, enemies and NPCs wear them

[barren jasper]

EXACTLYYYYY

[hollow siren]

so yes, she is a Tenno, but she's not a canon character per se

[restive river]

DE didn’t make that cinematic iirc

But yes she is a stand in for the tenno, I wouldn’t take it literally, at most her presence isn’t actually physical

[gleaming hare]

Ah

[restive river]

Like I interpret at most as our consciousness finding it’s way back to our warframe cause Lotus is waking us back up

Cause obviously our tenno is physically on Lua in the second dream cryopod

[gleaming hare]

But now take into context of warframe 1999 where the Drifter is sent back in time, and consider the tenno cant...die, it's possible the drifter-self actually... big loop make brain hurt

[restive river]

No…

The Drifter leaves 1999.

[swift sentinel]

I don't think the Grineer in the trailer ever interact or acknowledge the Tenno's presence, so it does kind of work as a metaphor for the player slowly waking up

[restive river]

Also the Tenno do appear to age so even if the Drifter continued on with the Hex beyond the loop they would die eventually

[gleaming hare]

Right.

[woven coyote]

R.I.P rell

[humble sierra]

Also they use a male Drifter for the Duviri marketing

[sly ibex]

At least we seemed to at our pre-War Within level of power. Operator doesn't seem to have aged in years, though. Drifter now being bound with our powers might mean they also won't age. And if I'm wrong, I guess I'll find out when confirmation happens. XD

[humble sierra]

Tbf that could just be that the quests happen within days of each other

New War wanted to trick players into thinking that the Operator aged into the Drifter and thus over a decade had passed

[lean garden]

Thing is, rell had our powers too, but he knew he'd age out

[sly ibex]

Rell didn't get the same level of training we did. Margulis cast him out, after all.

[restive river]

He still had a piece of Wally

Which
Idk what you mean by the operator not aging in years when we don’t have a time scale for when the war within happened in relation to now

[lean garden]

So are you suggesting the aging bit is simply a matter of training?

[sly ibex]

Our connection to that power is stronger, though. Our strengthening is what led Rell to no longer being able to contain The Man in the Wall, after all.

[restive river]

We also just don’t know how humans age in Warframe
Darvo’s what. 150 and young? How long does a child look like a child in Warframe? Especially one from the Orokin era?

[lean garden]

Eh? Where did that last bit come from?

[sly ibex]

Chains of Harrow.

[restive river]

Where did the first but come from?

Our connection is the same
We just received training

[lean garden]

Imo its just the same as normal, they just stay at middle age for longer.

No source at all, just thoughts

[lean garden]

Which part?

[restive river]

Most likely yes

There’s also the aspect of the Operator staying as they are for gameplay reasons
Or rather
Cosmetic reasons

Also to differentiate them from the Drifter

[humble sierra]

Imagine if the Operator aged in real time and the final quest is just them dying of old age

[restive river]

That would mean Drifter would die before them… oof

Same age but biologically they’re older ):

[sly ibex]

Though it succeeded for quite some time, both the strain of being stuck in a "Transference Loop" and the growing strength of the Man in the Wall (strongly implied to be a direct result of the Operators unlocking their sealed potential during The War Within[11]) slowly drove Rell insane, with a portion of the Red Veil following suit.

11. "Margulis lied to you, a lie of omission. She did not cure the Zariman children - she erased them. My only hope is that truth still lingers inside you, buried within your mind. The power and the misery... of the Void." - Teshin during The War Within

Okay, so War Within... Hm... I don't know that this necessarily means it had that impact for Chains of Harrow, since Chains doesn't seem to make mention of it. It does seem to coincide timing-wise, though.

[lean garden]

That from the wiki?

Yea I'm not remotely seeing the "strongly implied" here

[lean garden]

And like, didnt the quest heavily suggest that rell isnt stuck in a transference loop?

[restive river]

Yeah isn’t the whole thing is that he isn’t stuck in a loop and is actually just holding back Wally?

[lean garden]

Like wasnt the transference loop bit just the lotus trying to explain away what rell was experiencing with wally?

[restive river]

^

[lean garden]

Damn wiki article writers are back at it again

Better not be the same goober who wrote that hunhow is dead and speaking from the grave

[sly ibex]

It is the official wiki, though... I wonder how much gets checked or confirmed by DE folks.

[lean garden]

As much as the old wiki was, which is to say not at all

[restive river]

And this is why I still prefer the archives :p

[lean garden]

Lotus: "Rell... it's just you, alone and trapped in a Transference loop. Don't give into these delusions of Void exposure. There is no man in the wall.
Like seriously, how are we supposed to take any bit of this sentence as true when we discover that at its core the sentence is false

[sly ibex]

It did have transference loop.in quotes, in fairness. XD

[lean garden]

which page is this in?

[sly ibex]

The page for The Man in the Wall.

[noble wagon]

So I just got Amir's nightmare with Arthur text chain- poor baby...

[urban cape]

Indeed, he's suffered enough....

[proper barn]

They've all been through a lot.

[sage moat]

hey so. unless im mistaken.

resetting the timeloop shouldn't reset kaya right? she's already out of 1999. she's gone. she's escaped

[lean garden]

I thought you were pope val

[lean garden]

We know she comes back, stays back even. She wants to do time loop science for repair

So she's in the loop, both literally and figuratively

So when she's in the loop and it loops back around, she's right there to be looped

[proper barn]

i mean it resets everyone i think but even Lizzie knows about the loop and tells you to reset it at times.

SO WHO KNOWS HOW IT WORKS.

[strange plinth]

i'd guess lizzie is fully aware because she isn't limited to 1999
helminth time shenanigans
kaya would have to be there at the beginning of the loop if you reset it regardless, i'd guess?
which probably would cause more time shenanigans if she's not in 1999 at that time

[brittle siren]

does she disappear from the relay when you reset

[sage moat]

i have not yet checked

i will check next reset since i gotta reset for vel + min

[strange plinth]

yes she does

[brittle siren]

then yes reset the loop reset her too

which kinda not make any sense

[restive river]

It does for the reason Bau said :p

Kaya invented a way back and fourth
Meaning she isn’t just in the future, she goes back and when she does she’s part of the loop and thus reset

[stiff fable]

Late but: things in Warframe don't happen until they happen

Kaya gets out of the loop because you help her

If you undo that help, you undo her getting out

[humble sierra]

Good way of going about it

[north ferry]

The Operator/Drifter is in fact the center of the universe. Or more accurately, the player are the center of the universe. Something something.

[north ferry]

Although I do find it odd that before the conclusion to her story she is not in Laruda and even explicity contradicts that when she seems to claim that she believes you were always aware of her, each time you visit.
Now could be just a contrivance of NPC restrictions. Still tho.

[graceful swan]

Canonically was

[verbal dock]

I don't even know where to start there's just so much to the storyline now lol

[graceful swan]

Something confusing you in the lore?

[verbal dock]

I mean..the parallel universes are getting too much to keep track of xd

[hollow siren]

The funny thing is that there aren't really parallel universes

[verbal dock]

It's like the squabbling in the origin system became unimportant and it's now space demon and the parallel universes adventure xd

[strange plinth]

there's only one "parallel" and it re-merges back into the main line during the new war

[verbal dock]

Right it's more of a shoelace than parallel

[strange plinth]

and tbf, we did unleash a gigantic and powerful entity from the void
whatever the origin system has going on rn can wait

[hollow siren]

there's Reality and the Void, and since they work differently from eachother you can kinda make loopholes by implementing one's rules into the other

[graceful swan]

Nah, that was Albrecht and Ballas’s doing

[verbal dock]

Powerful void entity..confusing space kids since the Zarminan expedition xd

[strange plinth]

fair point
we 'contributed' with releasing rell, though

[hollow siren]

Rell was already starting to slip by the time we pacified him

[verbal dock]

I had a guy in my clan who was like r18 i believe and didn't even do second dream

That was in 2024

[strange plinth]

there's someone in this server with post-new war equipment who hasn't done natah
though they've done it intentionally

[verbal dock]

Anyone who hasn't done second dream etc is basically playing old base warframe

Also man..I remember when Cetus was just released

I was like wow cool an open world

Now we have like a whole bunch of those

[graceful swan]

I can just imagine them playing Duviri seeing Lua and being like Warframe has a moon?

[hollow siren]

I still think Duviri should be moved further ahead, the only argument for having it available early is Circuit, so I'd say just make Circuit available before the quest

simply seeing the Undercroft isn't gonna spoil much

[graceful swan]

The Circuit Paradox

[strange plinth]

yea undercroft isn't the spoiler, its drifter
can just use the equipped warframe for the player model in the cave (prior to choosing your actual frame for circuit) if anything

[graceful swan]

DE should add more frames to the Circuit

[hollow siren]

or have them choose the frame in a menu before they spawn into the cave

[graceful swan]

There’s nothing stopping them as we’ve had more than 3 Primes release since it’s release

[hollow siren]

the Duviri quest should be locked behind TNW or maybe even Angels of the Zariman

Every time a content creator starts warframe now their chats have to beg them to save Duviri for later

that kinda shows it's an issue

Circuit is great for farming, so have that become available where it is now

[strange plinth]

at least content creators don't need circuit because the community will gift them whatever lmao

[hollow siren]

true

apart from ungiftable stuff like the Incarnon Adapters

[lean garden]

Tbf if they can get incarnon adaptors they are well within a good time to start duviri lol

[hollow siren]

people now are doing the Duviri quest without even knowing what the Void is, let alone the Zariman

and never having met Teshin before

[hollow siren]

was referring to content creators not needing Circuit for farming purposes

[graceful swan]

I remember someone trying to say Duviri Void and Void is unrelated or something like that

[hollow siren]

hmm this coral reef is unrelated to the ocean

[lean garden]

I mean Im with you there, but if they can unlock SP duviri, theyre already past where they should be doing duviri

[hollow siren]

that wasn't the point of my message or the one mine was replying to

[lean garden]

Content Farming need not include farming

[hollow siren]

did you only read mine

[lean garden]

I mean the convo between you and greyscale lay it out that content creators dont need circuit for farming thanks to their viewers handing them the thing

And then you bring up incarnon adaptors, the one thing that they need to farm

Because they cant get it otherwise

So I say if they can get adaptors they're well in the clear

[hardy nova]

finished whispers in the walls a few days ago and I gotta say I thought people might have been exaggerating the old man yaoi aspect but hoo boy

[brittle siren]

Gauss should be the highest priority
After Citrine and Styanax got Primed, they should be in too

[graceful swan]

Gauss, Grendel and Wisp

[brittle siren]

Grendel imo should keep in those mission, for funsie (also I want to see new player suffer)

[graceful swan]

Then you might as well keep Gauss out to watch them suffer even more

[brittle siren]

Gauss is just terrible like Ash farm, at least Grendel you guarantee to get him

[humble sierra]

Gauss is disruption like Dante, roughly the same drop chances too

Dante has the benefit of pity currency though

[brittle siren]

yeah, you also suffer getting Gauss weapon too

[humble sierra]

I'd have said Grendel should be added because of how long it takes to get Arbies but they're reworking that too

[brittle siren]

true

[humble sierra]

Different disruption node

I think Protea and Wisp should be added

[brittle siren]

iirc you also need to go SP to get higher drop chance for either Gauss or the weapon, I can't recall which one

[humble sierra]

Or add a pity currency to ropalolyst because Wisp RNG isn't great

[graceful swan]

Dante disruption is also much more barable than the Gauss one

[brittle siren]

that the same to most frame boss tbh

the next spider frame should have currency trade please

[humble sierra]

She does I think

[brittle siren]

because I think the boss will drop weapon parts too

[graceful swan]

DE are giving most frames pity tbh

[brittle siren]

btw the tank is the most recent boss yes?

[graceful swan]

Yes

Until Islewesver

[strange plinth]

wonder if we'll get a new orowyrm or if it'll be something completely different
it sounded like the oraxia fight would be semi-optional like kullervo's is
occasionally showing up in the required 6 but otherwise just off in the background

[brittle siren]

I doubt the boss will be Oraxia herself

that would be lame

[humble sierra]

She's almost definitely like Kullervo

[graceful swan]

It will be a mini boss

The real boss in the quest is Wally

[brittle siren]

or she have like 2 phase, 2nd one has full spider form

[graceful swan]

Wally is the current main antagonist

Parvos is the closest to a secondary antagonist rn

[brittle siren]

the Worm queen in other hand is just a child, still dangerous though

[graceful swan]

Worm Queen doesn’t actively attack us

[brittle siren]

we don't know if the Sentient has anyone still pose a threat beside Narmer

[graceful swan]

She sends troops at us but doesn’t physically attack us

And no she’s not a child she’s Orokin in a younger Grineer body

She’s over 1000

[brittle siren]

ah no, I mean she have the personality of a child

I know she very old

[graceful swan]

She’s less mature because of the body

[brittle siren]

yeah

I feel pity for them tbh

[graceful swan]

Only reason we didn’t kill her too was so there wasn’t a power vacuum

[brittle siren]

we still don't have any lore of the one who place all Kuria

and Unum is getting more and more irrelevant every passing day

[graceful swan]

She isn’t though

She can’t become irrelevant due to the fact she is still shielding the plains

She also was never meant to be a major character

[brittle siren]

well like we need more lore for her
the Koumei update give me hope and then they strip it away from me

[humble sierra]

Yeah and the quills work in the shadows, they're meant to be mysterious and whatnot

When the plot needs them, they'll be there, but right now there isn't too much purpose

[graceful swan]

The tower doesn’t even let people in much

[brittle siren]

tbh I want to go in the tower again

and talk with her

who is Unum VA btw

[graceful swan]

Tricia Brioux

[brittle siren]

ah she voice 3 character

[graceful swan]

Many VAs for Warframe are reused

Grandmother and Little Duck for example have the same VA

Fibonacci and Viktor too

[brittle siren]

their voice range is insane

[strange plinth]

fibonacci and viktor??

[graceful swan]

Yep

He definitely changed the voice up so you wouldn’t notice though

[brittle siren]

wait, pissed who?

[humble sierra]

Neil Newbon btw (Astarion in BG3, Heisenberg in RE8, just the tip of the iceberg)

[humble sierra]

What quest? New war?

[brittle siren]

yeah

Unum said it

her voice sound like Rell but female

[humble sierra]

That's Drifter

Unum: "Dreamer… let them defile no more."

Time will stop. The Sentients will pause in place, fragments of the crumbling upper floor of the Tower will freeze in midair, and the Murex will halt its ascent. The colour will leach out of the world. Only the Tenno can move and act.

Ordis: "Operator? I may be detecting something unusual… should I focus scans?"

Operator: "Uh… won't be necessary, Ordis." / Drifter: "Don't. Might just piss it off more."

[hollow siren]

the line on-screen is said by the Drifter

[brittle siren]

oh

nvm then

she literally has 1 line 😭

[brittle siren]

thanks for the info

[lean tundra]

Who wants to explain all lore to me

[hollow siren]

Not me cause that'll take ages

[leaden gorge]

Aren’t there like extensive video essays about it?

[lean tundra]

I cant keep up with long english videos

[leaden gorge]

Then look at the wiki

That’s also a bit shorter imo

[hollow siren]

well yes, but even ones that are like only a year old are kinda outdated

[lean tundra]

So boring there

And dont know the chronology

Its just mixed dont know where to start read

[hollow siren]

most of that is pretty muddled anyways so

[lean tundra]

Where to continue

[hollow siren]

well these are in-game logs about one of the earliest major events:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es8uOniZzZI&t=7s

[lean tundra]

I dont like if i dont go with chrono
Like starting with 1 2 and go 8 then go back 3 then 9
Soo messy

Without knowing the order

Its just unbearable

[hollow siren]

well most of the chronology is more of a rough understanding rather than a concrete timeline

[graceful swan]

Recommend this
https://www.orokinarchives.com/

[hollow siren]

Most of the lore documents are directly available in-game, but they're spread out over many sources

[humble sierra]

Half-assed doing this so just an FYI, plus I'm almost certainly wrong about things so please correct me

Thousands of years in the future, the Orokin empire— an upper class of human— discovered the key to immortality. They created the Grineer, clones bred for labor, and enslaved the Corpus for other purposes. They created the Sentients too. Basically everything is their fault. Oh, they also experimented on the Infestation, which is what [The Sacrifice spoilers] ||gave them their greatest weapons, thanks to Executor Ballas:|| the Warframes. The Sentients rebelled, and adapted to their best weapons, so the Orokin made the Warframes to counter that. But [Second Dream and Sacrifice spoilers] ||apparently the Warframes were uncontrollable, enraged beasts, so they weren't really all too effective in the long run—|| until they interacted with pods from [SD] ||the Zariman, containing children with void powers— the Tenno. Their mere presence calmed the Warframes. The children used their Transference abilityto pilot the Warframes||. The Sentients were almost defeated. But as a final attempt, they sent [Natah spoilers] ||Natah, a sentient mimic who would impersonate the Tenno's "mother", Margulis, and turn the Tenno against the Orokin||. This almost worked, but not before ||Natah grew to love them first and they turned on the Sentients as well, as they sought to kill the Tenno after they were done with them||. Then the Orokin were slaughtered by the Tenno, in a ceremony meant to honor the Tenno.

The Tenno were then set to rest for an unknown amount of time until the Lotus wakes them up (the start of the game). The lack of the Orokin meant there was/is a power struggle over the galaxy. The Grineer are led by the queens who may or may not exist [War within] ||reveals they do, and that they're actually Orokin who survived and manipulate the grineer||, the Corpus are led by a mysterious board and worship Parvos Granum, the founder who was a slave under Orokin rule

[hollow siren]

The Corpus were founded by Parvos, who was a farmer under Orokin rule

[graceful swan]

Corpus came way later

[humble sierra]

Aight I reached character limit on that so if there's anything needing adding I'll do that in another post

Again, experts please correct me

[graceful swan]

The Orokin didn’t actually teach Transference to us it was innate to our abilities

[hollow siren]

Transference was discovered by chance by some non-Orokin scientists, then artificial Transference Technology was developed to emulate innate Transference

[graceful swan]

They discovered we had it

Which led to transference tech being developed

[hollow siren]

(this is explained in Rhino Prime's codex entry)

What we can assume to be the Original Rhino was the first Warframe to be Transferred into

but it's unknown if he was already a Prime or if he got Primed after that

[graceful swan]

Actually how does Margulis telling us we don’t have it turn it off?

[hollow siren]

She locked away our memories of the Zariman, thus essentially sealing off the part of our mind that is aware of our true nature and full abilities

[north jolt]

I miss the chest beam ngl

[humble sierra]

Side note, I feel like the Narmer veils are a twisted version of the Second Dream

[hollow siren]

we still had the powers, just didn't remember the instincts of how to use them

[graceful swan]

Best I can offer is Wisp

I heard chest beam was pretty disliked anyway

[hollow siren]

the first thing Drifter hears upon putting it on is the same thing Lotus asks us when waking up (and presumably what Margulis also asked us when we first Dreamt), so yeah

[humble sierra]

Hoping we get new Operator powers with the NBU (next big update, just wanting to get the acronym trending here) and one is like a more powerful version of the chest beam

[hollow siren]

it's a narrative parallel and a literal parallel

[north jolt]

I mean tbh I only ever used it once during that quest

[hollow siren]

Transcendence nostalgia yeah

[humble sierra]

I used it on a bunch of early game bosses

[north jolt]

I don't think DE is really going to touch operator abilities again unless they want to rework the focus schools for a third time

[humble sierra]

I'm not saying I want more unique abilities for each focus school or anything

Just a new 3 and 4

[hollow siren]

add back Transcendence as the 3 or 4 yeah

[graceful swan]

Didn’t DE only added the 2 extra slots because Drifter had 4 abilities not 2

[humble sierra]

I wouldn't mind if they were useless outside of mechanics introduced in the quest

[humble sierra]

Idk about that, Drifter and Operator have the same UI as a Warframe outside of Duviri and the New War

[graceful swan]

Drifter has 4 abilities because of Duviri

[crimson belfry]

I thought we got it from Void when we were stuck there

[north jolt]

Also, and Im pretty sure I asked this before but fogor the details, but Im wondering what IS the nature of the Tenno's immortality? Cause despite what gameplay mechanics (and Ballas) suggest they aren't totally unkillable? There's the obvious example of Rell's backstory, which albeit was entirely voluntary on his part but still required him "leaving his mortal body" (IE basically a physical death) to reside in Harrow. But then there's the whole deal of the tenno being put into the second dream which not only helped them better control their powers, but because they were effectively stashed away on Lua which got yeeted into the void, protected them from basically anything (including Sentients in particular) from harming them. So parts of the lore seem to suggest a degree of vulnerability but like, we never actually see a full on death of a Tenno

[hollow siren]

The Deal is what gave us our control over Void

[crimson belfry]

Oh alright

[graceful swan]

Ballas didn’t even call us Immortal he just said he couldn’t kill us

People just haven’t tried hard enough

[north jolt]

Yeah like up to the new war, least to me it felt like the sentients were the only things capable of actually killing a tenno which is why hiding us in the void (where Sentients can't enter) was such a big deal

[hollow siren]

Think of it like, instead of each "facet" of the Time Block being one "version" of us, it's one singular version across the whole block. So instead of that "version" of us dying, it's like cutting one thread of an endless web

[north jolt]

But the thing Im wondering is IF there is a way to kill a tenno, even theoretically, like for good?

[hollow siren]

we loophole death by bringing the Void's rules into Reality

[lean garden]

well yea, we do it with rell

[hollow siren]

throwing them into the Void did isolate us from Reality, but Ballas hadn't counted on Wally tying a knot somewhere in the web

[lean garden]

I think the critical juncture is to pop the "consciousness" that is the tenno, since theyre more than just flesh now

[north jolt]

And I already mentioned him but even he's a special case because he essentially allowed himself, or just his physical body to pass away

[graceful swan]

Absolutely there is Ballas just made the mistake of throwing us into the Void which meant we didn’t die from the wound he inflicted

[lean garden]

Correct, but as we've been told in KIM, the physical body for the tenno isnt the thing that you need a killing

[north jolt]

So Ballas is just a big dummy who should of thrown us into the sun instead?

[graceful swan]

Yes

[lean garden]

also I highly doubt a D4C situation is happening

[hollow siren]

the Operator (and since TNW the Drifter) are moreso a Void entity than an actual human

[north jolt]

||Not to derail but heck yeah Steel Ball Run anime coming!||

[lean garden]

HECK YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[graceful swan]

Throwing us into the Void meant we got trapped in a history loop

[north jolt]

But then that begs my other question: Why are the sentients (or at least "were") such a threat to us in particular?

[hollow siren]

It's kinda the opposite. We're not bringing other versions of us as replacement, we just bypass death by being too "large" of a presence to conventionally kill

[north jolt]

Like even if they found our tenno forms sooner, we could just void blast them and carry on?

[graceful swan]

Hunhow knew the secret Ballas had

[lean garden]

Not sure if I can agree with that idea

[hollow siren]

Notice how we could barely walk

[lean garden]

Are you referring to shoving us into the Void on Lua? I think that essentially was the eventual basic orokin strat to defend high value targets

[north jolt]

To me, its like if a monster wakes me up in bed during night, but my hand is already on the 12 gauge :p

[lean garden]

like putting killing us aside, if they destroyed the Lua infrastructure of the reservior, the warframes would have been rendered useless

all those tenno wouldnt have the fun WW journey we had so transference sans the pod wouldnt have been possible

[north jolt]

I mean like, imagine if for some reason they DIDNT do that and Lua was still in Sol during the old war. If the sentients made it to Lua and discovered the tenno in their pods, then what?

[lean garden]

well, that did happen

We 8x kiddo beamed the sentient who made it to the reservoir

[graceful swan]

How did Hunhow know the location of the Moon after it was put into the Void considering the coordinate change

[lean garden]

granted he was the smaller sized ones

[north jolt]

...I admit I am stupid but that only just now registered to me

If the void is basically poison to the sentients, HOW did Eris even make it to the reservoir?

[lean garden]

compared to his dad who was fighting in lunar orbit

[lean garden]

Because lua wasnt in the void yet

[north jolt]

Ohhhh

[lean garden]

like we know lua and deimos eventually got hidden in the void

but both of them were attacked by sentients

[north jolt]

I misremembered Lua getting yeeted during the war

[lean garden]

like the orokin really only figured to hide key installations after they just barely repelled the attack

its a wonder the Sentients didnt just win

[graceful swan]

Both times it was to protect something important

[north jolt]

But anyways back to my original question, what actually makes the sentients particularly dangerous to the tenno compared to any other faction? aside from their adaptability

[lean garden]

Like sure create all those bunkers for the orokin to hide into

but your two most important locations? yea nah lets have sentients attack first

[lean garden]

well for starters, unless you hit the main sentient body, the fragments will always come back

and the Sentients can and did still destroy warframes

[north jolt]

So hard to kill (kinda like he tenno themselves) and can destroy the tenno's main weapons against them. But in a worse case scenario the tenno still had void beams right?

And like several ways to not die

[lean garden]

mhmm, which as shown in Erra, we can still use

[graceful swan]

Warframes weren’t winning the war originally

[lean garden]

As for tenno immortality, I'm not convinced of any "too big of a presence in time" or otherwise. To me it seems more like a "you cant really kill a mind ghost with a bullet"

[north jolt]

So even in our tenno forms we aren't totally defenseless against sentients. But I also get that we couldn't really be trusted to stay "awake" for extended periods of time unless piloting a warframe

[graceful swan]

I hate when people use Oro as an excuse for our immortality

[lean garden]

I mean if oro is an indication of a consciousness, then yes I will say with my whole chest and my left 'nad that Oro is where our immortality lies

[north jolt]

I did thought about it but tbh I don't think anyone actually knows WTF Oro even is

[humble sierra]

Don't think they've gone in depth

[lean garden]

Not some soul nonsense thats for sure

[north jolt]

Right now it seems like too vague of an idea or concept to really be worth mentioning

[lean garden]

they've hinted what field it belongs to

[humble sierra]

Obviously it's important but I personally don't think it's some tangible thing

[lean garden]

heehee psychoanalysis

[north jolt]

Would be crazy if it was some bs like the void allowing us to just, will ourselves into existence

[lean garden]

For oro to be considered, there is a requirement of something something fully formed persona

which means it sounds like a mind thing

[north jolt]

Or like the void keeps a permanent copy of our mind/consciousness and just slaps it into a new body whenever we "die"

Just spitballing tho

[graceful swan]

I think the death quest revive thing is just a gameplay thing so you can keep going not a lore thing

[north jolt]

It would be interesting (if frustrating) if the death of your Tenno in mission resulted in a instant failure

But I think the only way you could kill-kill a tenno is to somehow separate their connection to the void like what almost happened during the Deimos quest

[graceful swan]

Thing is that wouldn’t even kill us

The Warframe turns off with no heart not our Void power

Heart only powers tech

We would just summon a mech and keep fighting

[tall echo]

Well they kinda hinted that we should stop caring about oro

[sage stratus]

U talk about willing self into existence and all i can think of is RA from lancer

[spice jewel]

hey can someone explain conecptual embodiment again?

[feral cape]

Extreme emotions with void energies create a thing

Like a ship of people a hole in the fabrics of space and time or an entire story book

[spice jewel]

aye, thx

[hollow siren]

Void manifesting emotional states and mental activity

[sage stratus]

So is this only negative emotion or possitive too?

[hollow siren]

Conceptual Embodiment is how the Holdfasts were created; they're Void manifestations of the dead Zariman crewmembers

[sage stratus]

Also speaking of that

[hollow siren]

Anything

[sage stratus]

Why didn’t the holdfast go mad when the zeriman fell into the void

Was it because they had no kids?

[hollow siren]

they did and they died

[sage stratus]

From the sounds of it the guy who likes guns didnt go mad

I forgot his name

[hollow siren]

Cavalero

[spice jewel]

cavalero

[sage stratus]

Thanks

[graceful swan]

Nothing said madness was automatic for everyone

[feral cape]

Could be both

[spice jewel]

but yonta committed suicide via the jade light, didn't she?

[hollow siren]

yeah there were various levels of it

[sage stratus]

But from what i have heard from dialouge he didn’t go mad, he was killed by the kids cause they did not know he was not a threat

[hollow siren]

yes

[graceful swan]

Quinn was killed by a Tenno for trying to help

[spice jewel]

hombask was killed by a bunch of void-crazed adults i think

[sage stratus]

Tbf, all the other adults to the kid’s knowlage went mad

[hollow siren]

Hombask was killed by the kids, Cavalero blew himself up to try and take down some insane adults with him

[spice jewel]

and...kira became a void angel

[sage stratus]

Yea

[hollow siren]

all the Void Angels are former Holdfasts

[sage stratus]

She has a nice shawzin though

[spice jewel]

really? i was making jokes about them being my parents

[hollow siren]

there were Void manifestations of all the crewmembers who died, the Holdfasts we meet are just the ones still remaining who haven't given in to the Song

[spice jewel]

speaking of the zariman, there was pressure from tuvul about the jump, wasn't there?

[hollow siren]

That's why their Incarnon-like parts start to recede as we rank up; we're helping them resist

[hollow siren]

The crewmembers were skeptical about it working, Tuvul of course didn't care, Hombask sabotaged the bio-zones to try and make the Orokin cancel the Void jump, but they instead rushed it. That's why it just suddenly happened earlier than planned

[spice jewel]

and then it was murphy's law after those incidents

[hollow siren]

"There's been a change in schedule"

[sage stratus]

So essentially corporate bs

Apologies for my colourful language

[spice jewel]

it's fine, we hate the orokin. but damn those guys were so advanced

[hollow siren]

Leaders throwing their people like matches

[spice jewel]

"only one meal per day for you colonists"

[hollow siren]

the Zariman failing is what eventually led to the creation of the Sentients, as they could simply travel to Tau themselves, build a Solar Rail there and then there wouldn't be a need for another Void Jump

Of course the Sentients rebelled instead

[spice jewel]

and this was long before the warframes were made, with necramechs serving as their predecessors during the old war

[sage stratus]

Because the sentients realized what the orokin would do to tau

[hollow siren]

the Old War is hard to discuss because it lasted a long time

Like, first there was the initial Sentient strike, which is how the Orokin learned they couldn't use their more advanced weaponry against them since the Sentients could just control those, which eventually led to the creation of Necramechs by Father, and later on the development of Combat Grineer when a Grineer worker managed to kill a Sentient. Then when the Necramechs started falling behind they unleashed the Infested upon planets the Sentients took (Eris and much later Deimos), which finally led to the Helminth and the Warframes with their archaic ballistic weaponry

and that's only like half of it

[spice jewel]

i can't even tell when exactly did ballas turn to the sentients, wasn't it some time after margulis was executed?

[hollow siren]

That's when he fully started planning his defection, yeah, but he likely always had megalomaniac thoughts

Just due to his nature

[spice jewel]

and umbra knew, since he was spying on him

[hollow siren]

yep, Umbra was an unknown Dax who managed to intercept Ballas' plans

[spice jewel]

i just thought of this, what gave it away for ballas to act suspicious for umbra to investigate?

[graceful swan]

For some reason people assume Umbra was one of if not the first Warframe even though he was one of the later made frames

[spice jewel]

"This blade may predate everything in your arsenal." - Ordis
i'm not counterclaiming btw just thought of this quote lol

[hollow siren]

"You thought you could out-play me? I've had lifetimes to plan my defection. You spied on me, intercepted my communications. But I saw your move long before you took it." - Ballas to Umbra

[hollow siren]

yes, because we have none of the Originals

[spice jewel]

oh yeah that's true, the warframes we make and use are copies

[graceful swan]

Ordis wouldn’t even know tbh

[spice jewel]

all this at the cost of his own son

[graceful swan]

The Sacrifice

[spice jewel]

anyway, back to the old war. the warframes end up being the turning point for the war. margulis being unhappy for what the zariman children had become (as weapons of war due to transference therapy), she committed apostasy (good riddance!) and was sentenced to death

[graceful swan]

She still got the good death punishment

Yes becoming a Cephalon is considered the worse of the 2 punishments

[spice jewel]

yeah that's true

[restive river]

Ballas literally coulda stopped her death, then whined cause she died 😭

[spice jewel]

he chose faith over love

[restive river]

The vain faith

[hollow siren]

yeah the only confirmed Originals we directly interact with are Sorren, Jade, Umbra and Sevagoth. The Acolytes could probably be Originals, but it's never confirmed.

[restive river]

Kullervo?

[hollow siren]

It's up in the air wether he's an actual Warframe or something like a manifestation of Ballas' crimes being judged by a manifestation of Ballas himself

but yeah ig he does kinda count regardless

if it is the former he's still the "original" Kullervo

oh and Flare/Temple counts too

[restive river]

What no Kullervo’s an actual warframe lol

The Warden is the manifestation of Ballas made by Kullervo

Along with the hold itself

[hollow siren]

I may need to revisit his hold, been a while since I was there

[graceful swan]

Kullervos guilt

[restive river]

I don’t think anything suggests Kullervo himself is a conceptual embodiment
If anything he is 100% a frame

Bro just got banished to the void, crashed in duviri and his emotions were so strong a new island was formed

[graceful swan]

Kullervo vs Oroxia when?

[hollow siren]

I'm super excited for Isleweaver and the lore it'll bring

cause Oraxia is stated to be on Scholar's Landing

[spice jewel]

but before that, the orokin held dualism as truth

[restive river]

Yes they did

See Hollvania

[spice jewel]

that all things are of two parts: mind and body, consciousness and matter, it was from there that their answer finally came

[hollow siren]

yep, and it's part of the things that imply what we see as Scaldra is what eventually became the Orokin far in the future

Dualism is part of Scaldra belief, with Sol and Lua

[restive river]

Yes I know what dualism is

[restive river]

It’s also just the major religion in 1999 lmao

[spice jewel]

just quoting the blue skinned phony

[hollow siren]

They're just writing quotes, not actually saying stuff

[restive river]

Lettie follows dualism, lua and sol

[restive river]

So glad he’s dead

[hollow siren]

Also so glad he's still voicing stuff cause that voice actor is insane

Perfected the voice of someone so extremely hatable

[spice jewel]

there was a time where he said sort of a vay hek voiceline but i couldn't find the video

[hollow siren]

It's fun cause Ballas is an incredibly complex and layered character, but he's not sympathetic or tragic in the slightest, which are what most people think of when calling villains complex

He's an irredeemable monster, but a deeply-written one

[spice jewel]

"look brothers! t-s! maniacal laughter"

[hollow siren]

Maybe when ranting to us and Lotus about how all of the destruction he's causing is somehow our fault

[spice jewel]

like scaldra blaming the hex for the outbreak or smth

well it's not really scaldra's fault tho was it?

[hollow siren]

Scaldra aren't to blame for the Techrot outbreak, but they are to blame for using it to terrorize and dominate Höllvania

[spice jewel]

the fact that they also declared martial law made it even scarier

[hollow siren]

Viktor may be a horrid slimy weasel but he's so so so fruity and shirtless

[plush phoenix]

😐

[restive river]

I can totally see him and Flare having a fling before uh. Y’know

[restive river]

I mean they are literally to blame for the coda-

And it wouldn’t be insane to think they unleashed the techrot on Hollvania
Like
They just so happen to have weapons against it?

[graceful swan]

They also just so happen to not be winning against it

[restive river]

Almost like they underestimated how powerful it is

[graceful swan]

Almost like they also didn’t think to call the Infestation for assistance

[woven coyote]

Oh what? Our tank is infected? Oh wow who wouldve known?!

[restive river]

Their funny goo seems effective enough

[hollow siren]

He does request for the person who failed to make its computers Techrot-safe so he can shoot them

[restive river]

The tank however seems like more something they just had, not specifically for techrot use
Though I may not be remembering a line about it being specifically for the techrot

[restive river]

Pfft, computers? Techrot safe? They really are dumb

[woven coyote]

Victor says a lot of stuff not to be taken at face value tbh, like when he's in propaganda mode

[strange turtle]

I don’t see it

Unless you just mean like, a one night stand

Though I wouldn’t be surprised if Viktor managed to mess that up at some point too

[hollow siren]

Viktor was the one who caused Flare's bandmates' deaths so

[sage moat]

thats what a fling is yes

[restive river]

Yeah that’s what a fling is :p

[strange turtle]

Not necessarily, no

[restive river]

Yes that’s why I said before

[sage moat]

i know ill have to wait about 4 trillion years but im excited for temple prime

[restive river]

Well that’s what I had meant :p

[restive river]

Try 4

I hope their prime has them not in gold but silver

or gold cause they took it to rebel >:)

[hollow siren]

Wonder how the "All Primes were the originals!!" crowd will react to them

[restive river]

Considering that’s already been disproven they should already be weeping as is

[strange turtle]

…Thinking about it, now I’ve got the funniest image of Flare just being like, traumatised after meeting up a second time and learning more about Viktor

“I shagged that?”

[hollow siren]

You assume warframe players have basic hearing and/or reading capacity

[restive river]

But they’d prob say some theory like “oh it’s the original design!” Even though Flare altered the design when they bled on their guitar so. They are the original??

[restive river]

That crowd will sometimes pop in here and are immediately proven wrong lol

[hollow siren]

yeah Flare is the first ever person to be injected with that strain

[restive river]

LMAO

[lean garden]

Honestly we just need to get to a point where DE outright states that Albrecht can make primes too

[hollow siren]

said strain was even unnamed and was named after Flare following that

[sage moat]

my current theories on it are:
The original design ballas cooked up but also equipped with Lizzie (unlikely)
or
Flare's little comet trip passed through the void and created Temple Prime.
OR
Temple prime isn't flare --- its a conceptually embodied bandmate for them.

[restive river]

Xaku Prime my beloved…

Also like
Qorvex Prime :p

[lean garden]

then we can solidify Xaku P as albrechts, and put Temple and Qorvex P under albrecht as well

[hollow siren]

Lizzie is Flare's guitar that got Flare's infested blood over it

it mutated and became sentient

[sage moat]

im aware

[hollow siren]

the unnamed strain had never been used, Albrecht brought it to 1999 and used it on Flare, then named it after Flare's stage name

[restive river]

I mean I will forever say Xaku prime is made by Albrecht due to the obols, Xaku’s ties to the entrati and literally having requiems for ability names

[hollow siren]

ah wait you're meaning for Temple Prime

[restive river]

Temple Prime can simply be Lizzie taking some gold or silver or whatever and altering Temple post-naga drums

[hollow siren]

the OG frames forming them were lost in the Void during Entrati experiments over a long period of time, then one day Xaku just came out of the Untime Door

[restive river]

Which dang Temple and Qorvex may be some of the only frames not used during the old war :o

[restive river]

Yes I am aware I am the biggest Xaku fan girl

[hollow siren]

Dante didn't fight in it either IIRC.

[restive river]

Well he was present for it

[hollow siren]

Caliban did but it's kinda unclear which side he fought for

[restive river]

Since he was there for the insurrection

[hollow siren]

yeah true

[restive river]

[hollow siren]

if Caliban Prime was not made during the Narmer coalition I will storm DE

[restive river]

Why would he be tho

[hollow siren]

he's the perfect chance for a Narmer Prime

[hollow siren]

original Caliban was made by Erra during the Old War, possibly as part of Ballas' collaboration with the Sentients

[restive river]

Like yeah it’d look cool but like
Why would he be? Why make a frame then? The very thing the tenno can take control of

[restive river]

I
Am aware of his origin

[hollow siren]

Ballas was fully confident the Tenno were gone for good

[restive river]

It just doesn’t make sense to me for Erra to make Caliban Prime during the Narmer days :p

[restive river]

Ok but why make one still

It’d make more sense to make more archons

[hollow siren]

Experiment for the Kuva-like cores we see Erra have, maybe. Or a test for making an Archon out of Pazuul

[restive river]

Like what I’m asking is is what would the purpose be of making Caliban Prime during the Narmer days?
He’d just go insane eventually.

[restive river]

I wanna say the narmer mirrors have temple kuva in them but I don’t recall the source

[hollow siren]

Caliban seems to not be made from a human, instead just having been built from scratch by combining Sentient tech and Helminth biology

[restive river]

I do remember they have what appears to be tower flesh in them

[hollow siren]

We know they eventually just made Erra's remains the body for Pazuul's Archon form, so it wouldn't be illogical for them to have previously tried a combination of Sentient and Warframe as the body, and then just taken advantage of Erra's unexpectedly available remains instead

[restive river]

I mean
He’d have to be partially human to be a frame :p

One third human
One third sentient
One third helminth

[mossy zodiac]

it is really weird that citrine looks exactly like a void angel

[restive river]

I mean kinda yeah

She predates void angels and doesn’t have much of a connection to them

I think it’s more so uh just associating it, coincidence
And her design is similar because she’s a geode, she’s cracked open

[mossy zodiac]

then all void angels look like her

every statue i see reminds me of citrine

i'm going insane

[graceful swan]

First time I’ve seen this idea come up

[mossy zodiac]

yeah i been playing citrine for a good while (just because my friend became a koumei fan)

and i had to farm void gels

[graceful swan]

I think it’s just designs being similar than anything else

[mossy zodiac]

yeah i also believe it would be hard to make the void angels look different from one another

[mossy zodiac]

or perhaps
a connection

[tall echo]

No

[graceful swan]

There’s no connection between them

[restive river]

Def not a connection :p

[mossy zodiac]

shhh believe me guys

[graceful swan]

I’ll believe it when I see it confirmed

[mossy zodiac]

smh imagine believing on sight

we must gather faith people

well that's my theory byeee

[graceful swan]

Too bad your theory has nothing supporting it

[mossy zodiac]

nothing yet*

[lean garden]

wait shouldnt we just put a picture of an angel and citrine up lol

[mossy zodiac]

sigh here i go going to the zariman map rq

[lean garden]

like Ive seen someone claim mirage is a sentient because they look similar, only to have little similarities when put side by side with a sentient

[mossy zodiac]

huh mirage?

like if it was caliban i'd get it

but mirage is a bit too far

[mossy zodiac]

uh here i tried my best putting the same color scheme

[lean garden]

If you needed to change colours...

[mossy zodiac]

missed the greish parts