lore-discussion

[strange plinth]

drifter possibly stopped aging when they first wanted to leave, as that's when the loop would've started
as for op's mental age, we won't know until isleweaver, if i had to guess
they've been shown to dislike being called a child, at least when teshin did it, but thrax just kinda. throws insults in your direction and demands your execution so

[proper barn]

a copy of the zariman. the zariman is really werid.

[granite thicket]

A billy maya infomercial

[proper barn]

We do see some

funny 1999 commercials

[stiff fable]

The loops are part of the Duviri story though

[humble sierra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhzFL9-Adpg

[stiff fable]

Every day one of Thrax's emotions go out control, expressed through his control and command over the Orowyrms

[granite thicket]

So mentally both operator and drifter are much older than they appear, but physically operator is a teen and drifter is older?

[stiff fable]

Basically

I'm fairly sure the Drifter aged themself in Duviri as a side effect of void weirdness

[proper barn]

yeah.

Also the drifter has like super PTSD

and then Nothingness.

and then we get them out of duviri.

[celest pine]

Is there a site that's got a bunch of lore/canon event synopsis/plot transcripts for Warframe? I know there's a lot of it on the wiki, but theres also a lot of stuff just abt gameplay and trying to explain plot stuff to a friend would be easier w/o the gameplay outlines xP;;

[stiff fable]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/

[celest pine]

https://tenor.com/view/standing-ovation-gif-24495839

tyvm!

[humble sierra]

This website has most fragments, quest transcripts and descriptions of both cutscenes and the gameplay in-between

I think the only thing it might not have are KIM conversations-- you can find those on browse.wf / Kimulacrum though

[white sable]

Are the Yareli relic locations announced or it'll come with the prime access?

[proper barn]

i mean all the normal places.

if you mean what parts are in what relic it will be annouced.

[white sable]

Fair enough

[proper barn]

it's out in the morning.

[white sable]

I meant locations but thanks

[proper barn]

the loctaions never change though.

It's like disruption and then just based on what type of relic you want.

[white sable]

Got it

[strange plinth]

yeah they'll still be in these spots for the best drop chance
(olympus b rota can also be used for lith if you don't want to have loading screen sim)

[proper barn]

yeah.

Deimos is also on the Axi list now.

but it's just this.

[strange plinth]

yeah that makes sense, this image is kinda old

[proper barn]

also

[white sable]

I struggle with disruptions xD
I can never find the right conduits
And that causes unnecessary delays

[proper barn]

you can just get some from the open world vendors and teshin as well.

[proper barn]

public is actually alright for disruption now. also just they are less annoying now cuz the enemies are marked and also just easier to fight i feel but shhhh.

[strange plinth]

help w/ demo and i don't think anyone will notice or care if you're not interacting with the conduits themselves

[white sable]

Great thanks
And oops sorry I didn't realised this was lore discussion channel

[strange turtle]

OKLU Technical Inc. https://www.orokinarchives.com/corpus-trademarks/

[vale slate]

Ooo

[vale slate]

Thank you so much for this!!

[proper barn]

we are way nicer here.

[past halo]

I always wondered, how does Drifter's Sirocco take the properties of the Operator's amps

[tall echo]

Through game limitations

[graceful swan]

Void magic

[glacial bough]

YARELI TRAILER OUT BOYS

In short summary, Ballas was big mad

[graceful swan]

Ballas: You dishonoured our ways
Yareli: You primed me anyway though

[brittle siren]

so
Yareli "betrayed our trust, mocked our ways... even dishonoured the sacred Kuva"

what did she do 😭

[humble sierra]

https://youtu.be/XYy2XPR-cIo?feature=shared

Was Yareli just a skater girl that got turned into a Warframe because she disrespected authority?

[lean garden]

Looks like yareli was more potential orokin body for continuity

to which she made ballas mad and he did her dirty... and a solid?

[humble sierra]

Ooh yeah that makes a lot of sense

[brittle siren]

This maybe a grain of salt: is she the girl that use real Kuva on those 3 Orokin?

in Naberus story

[humble sierra]

Depends on the timeline probably

Also if that story was even true

[brittle siren]

I mean Dagath one is real

[humble sierra]

Speaking of Dagath

Wondering how exactly Yareli and Grandmother knew each other

I think the Waverider quest implied some sort of connection

And also the fact that Grandma is the one who organizes the K-Drive races in the Cambion Drift

[glacial bough]

Now, is that hint at 3rd orb or just a regular

[brittle siren]

also the kids use the Prime variant on their graffiti

[lean garden]

I'm going to have to dig through corpus enemy sets because that is very much orb design

[brittle siren]

so is the one Ballas talking about is Prime or base?

[glacial bough]

Probably Prime

[lean garden]

so uh, there are 4 raknoids, and none of them are this colour

[brittle siren]

so the base is just someone and Prime version is the one Ballas hate the most

[lean garden]

for comparison

[brittle siren]

hold on, the leg have a bit of green on it

idk if it just lighting or not

[lean garden]

quick question, what happens if you have orange paint in the dark and you have some cyan lighting near it

[past halo]

Looks like just Profit-Taker

[brittle siren]

if so then you could only see the blue

[brittle siren]

tbh the shape is not the same, the third orb has a bunch of "balls" on it's side

[lean garden]

then its a forth orb if its not the third

fact of the matter is that that orb does not match previous orbs

[brittle siren]

yeah no clue

[past halo]

Also does the trailer imply anime existed in the Orokin days

[brittle siren]

is it? Nef Anyo statue is already there

and even then, how the Corpus manage to get Sentient tech and the whole Venus during the Orokin still reign

[past halo]

I think you replied to the wrong message lol
But to answer your question, yes it's Profit-Taker

If it was Exploiter, we would have a blue Orb

[brittle siren]

wait you was asking if anime exist in Orokin time?
I mean if 1999 already kinda have anime then in Orokin time they also knows it's exist too

[past halo]

Ye

The correct message is here #lore-discussion message

[brittle siren]

does anime even mention anywhere in 1999?

[past halo]

I mean the On-Lyne Peelies have an anime style so it does technically exist

And those green cat containers

[brittle siren]

based on the shape, it closer to exploiter

[cunning tapir]

Knowing that Yareli was a Yuvan who rejected the Orokin Continuity makes her being a hero the vent kids look up to hit different.

[graceful swan]

It looks like what happens if you give Narmer an Exploiter

[hexed oxide]

third orb ? question mark ?

[silk atlas]

Probably not third orb

[graceful swan]

Third Orb is much taller

[past halo]

I mean it's better than her getting clobbered by a fat Corpus stooge lmao

[silk atlas]

I thought there was already a Narmer orb at some point...

[graceful swan]

Third does have drone over it

[brittle siren]

this is the one that appear in Kahl mission

[silk atlas]

Oh those

[hexed oxide]

that's a raknoid

[runic bronze]

watched the prime video and why did this new lore bit make me sad about Yareli

[past halo]

A lesser orb

[runic bronze]

[graceful swan]

Third is the only hint at a Narmer controlled Orb

Exploiter is blue so having the red hue seems odd

[brittle siren]

why the one in Yareli trailer look similar to this

[past halo]

A former Yuvan rising against the Continuity ritual is a ballsy move, cheers to proto-Yareli

[brittle siren]

the green tint

[lean garden]

thats uh, not even the right shape

[past halo]

Ballas I will find your grave, revive you and beat your corpse up again and again

[runic bronze]

everytime you kill him again i'll let my kubrow pee on his remains for good messure

[past halo]

Good

[brittle siren]

isnt his body now turn into plasma waste on the sun?

[past halo]

He's avoided a fate worse than death, dammit

[tall echo]

For an orokin, death is the worst fate

[past halo]

Man, I wanted to torture his pretentous hide

[tall echo]

Pain is temporary

[graceful swan]

Pain is just a dream
I made it up in my sleep

[runic bronze]

ETERNALISM

[past halo]

Sucks that the only vestige of him living is his Duviri counterpart keeping Kullervo in jail

[restive river]

Why does that suck he should be dead more

[karmic marten]

Just saw yareli Prime trailer and wow
Ballas kinda hates her pretty high

[past halo]

Yeah, but it's not really Ballas though

[dense salmon]

Ballas saw a young woman acting rebellious and decided to turn her into a Warframe, a process so horrific that even experienced Dax Soldiers go insane from it. God Ballas is a grade A hater

[river thicket]

ong

[karmic marten]

This explanation is way funnier

[dense salmon]

I have to say though, they did a pretty job of fixing the whole disconnect of having Yarelli be this 'Cute UwU Animu Girl' and her Main Syndicate being the Ventkids, who honestly feel more like they'd be Temple's followers, simply by straight up just having her be implied to be a very young woman or a child when Ballas turned her into a Warframe.

[past halo]

Beats her being smacked in the face by some fat Corpus in a hover-wheelchair

[onyx peak]

[dense salmon]

So she's more connected/related with the Ventkids even more. Actually you know what, that makes me wonder, was Grandma/Dagath friends with the girl that eventually turned into Yarelli, or did she end up befriending the Warframe-ified Yarelli?

[past halo]

I don't think they even met, but it would be pretty interesting if they did

[dense salmon]

They did I think, or at least Grandma was friends with A Yarelli.

[past halo]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tall echo]

Yeah grammar was apparently friends with the comic yareli or smth

[old dome]

THIS MAN JUST HATES KIDS

he really took a sassy young girl & turned her into a frame as punishment......... this man did Not learn his lesson w mirage.

[hidden bronze]

So she is a minor 🤔?

Isn't warframe 18+?

[old dome]

given how the yuvan theater was all kids & teenagers... probably. maybe.

[hidden bronze]

[old dome]

thats just the rating for the story.

[hidden bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/solo-leveling-statue-of-god-gif-14621948488655819220

She is a part of the story

[tall echo]

Bruh wat

[misty helm]

Same question but with Jade.

If Stalker's wife was turned into Jade, then what business has the Tenno comanding his wife's carcass with him? Did that Tenno somehow internalized the subject's whole persona and experiences the feelings she had for his husband or what?

[hidden bronze]

What r u cooking bro💀

[old dome]

if you wanna be a creep go do it somewhere else.

[hidden bronze]

;-;

[old dome]

...that tenno was put to sleep by jade. we dont actually know what happened to that tenno girl afterwards.

[misty helm]

Wdym?

[tall echo]

Visit teshin in a relay, read the lore on the glowing spot behind him

[old dome]

youre asking whether the tenno girl that piloted jade also felt jade's own emotions, right...? or am i misunderstanding??

[dense salmon]

Well they're not piloting her carcass, they're piloting the copies of her that the Helmith can recreate. Drifter revealed that some memories and mannerisms leak into even the copies, but in the end all that remains is just shadows of memories of a person that no longer exists.

[tall echo]

Relatable

[old dome]

misunderstanding it is...

[misty helm]

Oh, boi

[dense salmon]

What I am wondering is if Grandma was friends with the human that would be turned into a Yarelli, or if she was friends with the Warframe Yarelli. I think if it was the former it would be cool, because it adds in more fuel as to why Grandma does seem to actively dislike Ballas

[old dome]

also... i love that the yareli prime trailer gave us a little bit more insight on yuvan theater. just a smidgen of lore.

[tall echo]

I think most orokin disliked ballas

[misty helm]

Yeah, exactly that. That's why that quest confused me so much

[old dome]

i mean... even w/o the 1st theory, she would still hate the guy for all of his other crimes.

grandma seems like a reasonable person...... her actions in heart of deimos aside anyway.

[misty helm]

I think all of them disliked eachother and everyone else too

The nature of power-hungry people I guess

[restive river]

most reasonable orokin moment

[old dome]

yeah... we dont know if the girl felt what jade did or not. but jade was able to talk to her & calm her down, eventually singing her to sleep... so its a safe assumption to say that the girl did feel what jade felt.

thats. kinda how the whole "void powered teenagers can calm down madness-driven metahumans" thing works

[misty helm]

Sorry, but by 'Jade' are we both referring to the original subject or the Tenno?

😵‍💫

[old dome]

the og jade,, the tenno girl is. well. tenno girl.

[misty helm]

Oh

Then, wouldn't that mean Jade should be 'special' like Umbra to be capable of exerting herself onto an operator like that?

I mean, given how we know warframes are basically stripped of most, if not all of their memories

[old dome]

also x2 now the yareli trailer makes me wonder how do the frames age.... bc teshin is HELLA old but only really began to look his age when he got to duviri.

[old dome]

yup!! one of the few who managed to keep her mind intact by sheer force of love for her child & stalker.

mostly her child...

[misty helm]

Makes sense

[runic bronze]

ok bro just jump into the void without any defenses and around the 13 hour mark inside there its gonna appear, call me when u get there

[restive river]

She was very likely a generation 1 frame, not yet stripped of her sapience

[misty helm]

Btw, I was wondering if prehaps the reason the Corpus stopped attacking Stalker was because the 'child' was able to calm them down with some warframe-magic

[restive river]

She’s akin to Umbra but not purposeful, she’s more like Kullervo or Dante

[old dome]

nope. its bc the commander didnt wanna kill an innocent child,, she still has some good morality left in her.

[restive river]

Or
Hear me out
The Corpus are just humans and that Corpus heard and saw a baby and had basic human compassion.

[misty helm]

Ofc

[past halo]

That sounds like something an Orokin would say

[old dome]

its a very "not all corpus as ballas-esque" moment.

[misty helm]

I guess that was just me assuming a the warframe universe is grimdark or something idk

[restive river]

Anyway
Generation 1 frames had sapience and would eventually go mad but certain frames did not due to high emotions and drives, see Kullervo, Stalker, Jade
Umbra is a gen 2 frame but a specific special one, made to always have that burning memory and thus he retains sapience due to the high emotional state
But all other gen 2 frames have their sapience stripped for tenno-use

It seems Jade was a gen 1 that was grandfathered into gen 2 when the tenno were put to use, she likely “needed” a tenno due to who she was and how rebellious she could be
Meanwhile Stalker never needed a tenno as he was loyal, the promise of his family and him just. Being loyal were enough
It’s likely similar for the acolytes too, individuals who were helminthed, who retain sapience and are wholly loyal AND have that intense emotional drive that beats back the infestation just enough.

[misty helm]

Assuming Jade (prime ) is a 1st generation Warframe... would that mean that Excalibur, the OG, at some point had to be lobotomized?

I mean, if that piece of lore is still relevant today

[restive river]

I mean we know currently that the Jade we see is the original so her prime will be
interesting
My guess currently is her prime is similar to Qorvex, designed but never made

But also yeah all (except clearly some exceptions) gen 1 frames were destroyed and rebuilt when the Orokin realized they could use the Tenno to pilot them

[silk atlas]

I don't think this is the first time they've Warframe'd a pregnant woman, I'm gonna be real honest with you, Ducky.

[restive river]

Iirc default Excal os the original frame Ballas made with Umbra likely being one of the last frames ever made, a modified version of the excal design

[restive river]

I mean probably yeah :p
but Jade Prime would still have a connection to normal Jade

[misty helm]

Yeah, I like the idea someone mentioned above (sorry, I'm bad recalling names) about some Warframes retaining their identity even on later iterations of themselves; sort of a 'ghost in the machine' kind of thing, carrying their persona through their very own design

[restive river]

And we have seen and know the story of base Jade
So
No room for her prime predating her really, in theory if her prime is another person then that’s just not her?

[restive river]

They do actually
Idle animations
Lemme fine what Drifter said about this too :)

[misty helm]

Yeah, that's why I would love if DE replaced the Warframes we see on adventures as their prime counterparts (once we get them)

It would help making more sense into that you mentioned

[past halo]

Primes are canonically just sidegrades gifted to the most worthy Tenno so nothing would change much

[restive river]

Hm I’m not remembering the exact quote so I can’t find it atm

[misty helm]

I always thought those were the originals, given how the Orokin loved adding gold to everything

[restive river]

Some primes are the originals some were given after

[misty helm]

Even their shocktroops

[restive river]

Base Lavos came first and bro primed himself
Meanwhile it looks like Yareli prime came first and her base came later

[misty helm]

I mean, I highly doubt they would have lost the chance to throw some golden bits into their "biodrones", even if those were supposed to be 'mass produced'

[restive river]

Heck base Xaku needs to come first

[past halo]

Varzia mentioned the Prime Vanguard being the pride of the empire, so no doubt they were simply Tenno commandoes working for the Orokin elite

[restive river]

Some primes came first
Some came after

[silk atlas]

Nothing suggests mass production, especially when they've still had Dax in their ranks.

[glossy marsh]

Assuming Ballas saw it, Revenant prime technically came before Revenant

[silk atlas]

There's only so many actual Tenno to pilot all the frames.

[restive river]

There def is some level of mass production but like
There weren’t armies of Warframes

[misty helm]

I'd hate if it was like that

[silk atlas]

It literally is.

[restive river]

Okay well you’re gonna hate it cause it is like that.

[misty helm]

Damn

[silk atlas]

We've had like 3 difference sources at this point mentioning things at this point.

[restive river]

Lavos literally primed himself
He predates his prime

[proper barn]

I mean working for the government yeah.

Like everyone worked for the orokin during the empire times.

[restive river]

It’s a variety
Some get shiny immediately
Some not so much

[glossy marsh]

CIA agents with a gold star

[restive river]

While the Orokin love their gold they may not apply it unless they deem them worthy of it

[graceful swan]

Ballas never told the whole truth

[restive river]

Which technically all frames will have a prime so all would be worthy either immediately or through service
Or by doing it themselves

[misty helm]

I mean, they literally had their grineer shocktroops parading some sick golden armor

[past halo]

Lavos primed himself because he tells the status quo to screw off

[glossy marsh]

He is just that goated

[past halo]

Can't get more metal than that

[restive river]

And yet we know not all primes are the originals

[misty helm]

Even their freaking K O M I stones had gold on them

[past halo]

And again, Primes are given to Tenno who are worthy of being a part of the Prime Vanguard, not everyone deserves a prime because "ha ha gold is gud"

[misty helm]

Bah, assuming it's gold

Maybe it's just shiny golden... something

[proper barn]

I mean Javii was only imprisoned cuz he wanted to teach the masses about alchemy and the Orokin hated that idea. Also I know people that really like personifyiny lavos as a trans man for these reasons.

[past halo]

If only they knew alchemy changes elements, not genders

[graceful swan]

is there anything the Orokin didn’t build with gold eventually

[glossy marsh]

Infestation strains not related to helminth probably

Also the sentients

Didn't really get the chance to make those gold

[graceful swan]

Orokin didn’t even create the Infestation

[past halo]

They technically did

[silk atlas]

No, they didn't. It predates them.

[past halo]

The Orokin are responsible for practically everything in the origin system, both past and present, soooo

[viscid scroll]

What exactly does the 2nd part have to do with anything

[misty helm]

Didn't Hunhow had some golden bits?

[glossy marsh]

Did he?

[viscid scroll]

No

[proper barn]

I mean lavos whole thing is about like alchemy and transmutation and things becoming other things.

[viscid scroll]

Fairly certain he doesn't atleast

[proper barn]

Like do you not see why people would headcanon the alchemist as that?

[misty helm]

I mean, if we assume every sentient we find is Orokin-made and not Tau-made, then yeah.

[graceful swan]

The Sentients we fight are fragments

[glossy marsh]

The "golden" bits seem to be light reflecting materials

[viscid scroll]

The gold on this appears to be white on other images tho so idk

[proper barn]

You can't tell me you don't get this. @viscid scroll

[misty helm]

Yeah

[normal mountain]

Bet they're solar panels

[misty helm]

Also, do we know if Hunhow was created by the Orokin or if he was 'born' from the OG sentients?

[viscid scroll]

Seems like an overinterpretation to me but whatever you like you can believe

[graceful swan]

They were made by the Orokin then gave birth

Hunhows womb is empty now though

[proper barn]

Javii is in jail cuz the Orokin don't want the poors to know things can be other things.

[past halo]

Again, alchemy is about changing elements and matter into something else entirely, it's not about changing one part of the body into something else

[sly ibex]

Infestation predates the Orokin, but they did engineer it to fight against the Sentients. Which strains specifically were created by them, I don't know for certain. We don't have a comprehensive list on that. The Techrot strain predates them though, as far as I am aware.

[misty helm]

It seems they may have changed the design with time 🤷‍♂️

Source is from some 2016 post on warframe forum
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/715036-spoiler-hunhow/

[viscid scroll]

Possibly his lights are blue in 2nd dream then red in new war

And his colors seem different too

[proper barn]

Helminth and whatever the lephantis is are two we know they made.

[graceful swan]

Or maybe Hunhows gold became bad with time like what happens if you don’t take care of gold

[viscid scroll]

Lephantis is mentioned to have fought in the old war and i have no clue what its strategic advantage was

[proper barn]

It's a infested creature

That could beat sentients.

[normal mountain]

It's a giant monster
What strategy do you really need?

[proper barn]

The way they stopped the Sentients from destroying the Void heart

Was a infested bio Bomb.

[misty helm]

Yeah, I guess. Who knows, really. There's some extra screenshots on this video, as it seems they all come from him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tbQ-OBs_Ck

[viscid scroll]

Maybe he can just change appearance

[proper barn]

The Orokin where mad at Javii for putting the idea that things can become other things cuz they though the poors would realize they could rise up.

[graceful swan]

He’s not a mimic though

[past halo]

I know that, I read the Leverian on him

[normal mountain]

His kid was
Maybe he has some mimic traits in him?
tbh, I don't know enough about Sentient physiology to give definitive answers

[graceful swan]

She was coded that way while Hunhow wasn’t

She was meant to be a spy

[misty helm]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he had the ability, given how their literal 'children' have them.

[viscid scroll]

Even if he doesn't perhaps his size being too much to reliably mimic anything he still probable has some shapeshifting capabilities since hes a sentient

[misty helm]

Unless that ability was specially developed from the first sentients to the later 'batchs'

[graceful swan]

She was created specifically to be a mimic

[proper barn]

It wasn't even about alchemy. It was Just science. So you are telling me that "its not about people becoming other things it's only about materials" the text it's not about materials.

It was also literally evolution and stuff.

Your argument is wrong. Also what I said I what people head cannon him as not what is cannon but your objections to it based on what you said is incorrect.

[proper barn]

Like we don't have to agree about it But use better logic.

Like Ticker is a trans woman we have non-binary frames like this wouldn't be that wild if it was cannon.

[viscid scroll]

When the be tree logic hits

[proper barn]

I just was typing on my phone.

[stray gale]

I get the logic but tbh this is the first time i've ever heard this

[proper barn]

I was told this the week he came out

By some of my friends.

[stray gale]

if I were to trans man headcanon anyone, it would be ash

[proper barn]

Sure.

The Javii and Lavos stuff is cool.

[normal mountain]

that's a first for me

[stray gale]

they're always calling themselves stuff like that

[proper barn]

I had someone argue with me that Javii wasn't a teacher and that was annoying.

[stray gale]

ash and connor and blake and whatnot

trans guy names fr

[proper barn]

That's outta pocket.

It's true but it's outta pocket.

Lmao

[stray gale]

I literally went out with a trans guy called connor once

it is 100% true

[lean garden]

Dude was called Ashley before, and is still called Ashley after

[proper barn]

No I agree.

This wasn't disagreement lmao.

It's just funny when it comes from a good place.

[lean garden]

Is kai one of them?

[stray gale]

yeah it could be

[lean garden]

I know a trans dude called Khai

[proper barn]

Hey chat if anyone tells you like

"Why is flare non-binary they are based on David Bowie he's a dude"

[viscid scroll]

I know a trans guy named kuva lich grig yraa

[proper barn]

They are talking about this Person

https://tenor.com/view/david-bowie-ziggy-stardust-aladdin-sane-glam-rock-rock-star-gif-9559705993748334117

Uh huh your telling me this is the person that you are using to stand against nonbinary people really?

https://tenor.com/view/david-bowie-gif-22620619

[viscid scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-funny-wtf-wth-jesse-gif-17336046

[proper barn]

Anyway back to lore

[strange turtle]

I also knew one called Kai

[proper barn]

Flare is literally based on David Bowie.

And glam Rock.

Did you not know that?

[viscid scroll]

Idk who either of these is

[proper barn]

Flare

Warframe. Temple protoframe.

A character in warframe

[viscid scroll]

Yep and the other two

[strange turtle]

There’s 3 other “new” Protoframes

[proper barn]

Yeah.

[proper barn]

Then you know who they are.

[restive river]

David Bowie is a famous individual
Glam Rock isn’t a person lol

[proper barn]

If you mean David Bowie it's who Flare/Temple is based on. A famous rock and roll person.

[graceful swan]

David Bowie
Human songwriter actor

[proper barn]

Also yeah glam rock is a style of music.

[viscid scroll]

"Human"

[proper barn]

What are you

What are you saying?

[restive river]

Guys we found the alien

No but fr what are you saying lmao
They’re as human as you or me

[strange turtle]

I figured it was just because Vinny was specifying human for a real person

[viscid scroll]

Nemesis iv allegedly revealed himself to be a sentient mimic

[proper barn]

Okay.

[graceful swan]

Nuh uh

[proper barn]

I mean so? Lotus is the mimic quenn

[strange turtle]

Wait not Vinny mb sorry

[restive river]

Nemesis is a fragment chipped off from Lotus
I knew it

[graceful swan]

Yeah but if I was
How would I be typing?

[restive river]

Sentients are robots
You hacked a keyboard

[normal mountain]

Mimic
Can transform to have fingers

[tall echo]

Nemesis is the keyboard

[graceful swan]

Now I wonder if hacking a keyboard would even do anything

[proper barn]

Sentients can hack any tech.

We know this.

[graceful swan]

Even Warframes?

[viscid scroll]

Warframes are flesh

[proper barn]

Warframes aren't tech at all just bio weridness.

[graceful swan]

They have tech too

[normal mountain]

I mean, if the New Strange Chroma theories are true...

[proper barn]

No they don't it's the point.

[viscid scroll]

They arent controlled by tech

[proper barn]

Their stupid is stupid and can't be hacked.

Its like trying to hack a baseball bat

[silk atlas]

Their Murexes can shut Warframes down, at least, somehow

[proper barn]

My messing with the transference link.

But that's not tech that's like yelling so 2 people can't talk to each other.

[tall echo]

Why you messing with the link

[graceful swan]

What even is a Sentient pulse?

[viscid scroll]

We know you know you tau alien

[graceful swan]

Sentients aren’t aliens

They come from the Origin System

[proper barn]

Not a alien.

[graceful swan]

Warframe has no aliens

[proper barn]

Yeah.

[normal mountain]

I mean, if you aren't a legal citizen, you're technically an alien

question is, citizen of what?

[graceful swan]

Yeah, but there’s “Alien” and an actual alien

[proper barn]

Citizenship is a scam.

But anyway.

[viscid scroll]

It isn't

[sly ibex]

I don't think that's the case, since we were fine in Necramechs while in an Orphix field.

[proper barn]

Necramechs specifically

Have shielding against it.

[sly ibex]

But if our Transference signal is what's getting messed with, it shouldn't matter how the Necramech is shielded.

[proper barn]

This feels like how a sat phone works while normal phones would be out of signal.

[sly ibex]

But the Orphix field is like a Faraday Cage.

[proper barn]

I don't think that would stop a Sat phone. But also Faraday cages don't work really.

[sly ibex]

If the field is meant to block Transference signals, then it should stop it. Picture it like how a cell signal jammer blocks all cellphone frequencies.

[proper barn]

Shouldn't a sat phone work then?

[sly ibex]

I wish we had a little more information on all that, honestly. It's really interesting.

[proper barn]

Cuz it would only stop certain frequencies.

[sly ibex]

Yes, but if the jammer is meant to stop Transference, then it doesn't matter that we can receive voice/video communications from Lotus or anyone else, because it is blocking the Transference signal.

[proper barn]

It's very hard to stop all singals so you would stop certain types of signals.

[sly ibex]

Transference is a certain type of signal.

[proper barn]

Also here the thing getting jammed seemingly is not our signaling going out but it comin back from the warframes.

So if the warframe (or necramech) isn't getting disrupted cuz jt has "shielding" we would still be able to use itm

[prime cove]

New Prime trailer gave me a disturbing thought; if Yuvans being remade into Warframes is no longer off the table, then what does that say for the other childlike Warframe we can play as, Nezha?

[sly ibex]

Ballas turning kids into Warframes doesn't seem out of the ordinary for him, honestly.

[misty helm]

I really liked the old lore about warframes being individuals so skilled that the Orokin had to make them into their new 'super-soldier' shenanigans to fight the Sentients; willing or not

[graceful swan]

Volunteers or not is still the case though

[misty helm]

Anyone being able to become a top-notch warframe, just because they got infested with the right strain, sorta takes away all that it made their background so cool for me

Like, because of that piece of old lore I always had this notion of how "cool" it was that every frame you see, was a elite-level warrior that may have willingly turned himself or herself into what's basically a monster, an abomination, just to buy humanity a last chance of survival against the Sentients

[graceful swan]

It never actually was the case only the best became frames

[tall echo]

Yeah idk where that's coming from

[misty helm]

I mean, with the whole Yuvan being turned into warframes I'm kinda geetting that

[prime cove]

I suppose "the best" also includes people that personally intrigue (Gara) or infuriate (Yareli) Ballas.

[misty helm]

Oh, I think I may have understood that wrong; were you prehaps saying that only the best becoming warframes, was never the case?

[graceful swan]

Ballas: “We took our greatest, volunteers or not, and polluted them with these cultured reagents. They transformed. They became Infested…

This is saying they took their best in terms of most likely to handle it more than the smartest or best soldiers specifically

[misty helm]

May be

[prime cove]

On the contrary, the idea that anyone could be exposed to the Helminth strain and made into a living weapon is more in-line with how the Orokin operate morally. Like "forget the Dax- NO ONE is safe from unwilling conversion into an inhuman thing!"

[misty helm]

Yeah, I mean, it was never outside of the room of possibility by no means. Specially given the 'moral values' the Seven had...

[prime cove]

I suppose that's how it started, but as the technology improved, and Warframes moved past the prototype stage, Ballas decided to get experimental with it and started throwing anyone into the project that he could. Like, he's the one in charge of the project- who's gonna stop him?

[graceful swan]

The prototype thing is sorta not canon anymore

[misty helm]

It's just that, for me, it made a lot of more sense if it was just the 'greatest' (as in warriors/soldiers) that were made into warframes. Like it resonated even with the potential fact that the whole Tenno dexterity may also be attributed to the warframe's body "knowing" how to move, by some sliver of 'muscle memory', a fragment of the great warrior they once were before becoming another just tool, a puppet.

It's kinda mystic

[graceful swan]

Ballas probably did get a bit impatient though

[prime cove]

Lack of a better term I guess, but still. The more Warframes they successfully created, the more, erm, creative they got with it.

[graceful swan]

They didn’t even need good fighters specifically anymore as Teshin mentions trained by a Sentient

[misty helm]

That makes a lot of sense, yeah. The good ol' "Desperate times call for desperate measures"

With an obvious hint of Ballas just being Ballas

[prime cove]

Who knows? Maybe the whole "throw spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks" approach may have been in some part due to Ballas attempting to sabotage it in the Sentients' favor.

[graceful swan]

Most modern Warframes are clones of the humans anyway

[misty helm]

Absolutely

[woven coyote]

Pretty sure yuvans were candidates for continuity not warframes

[misty helm]

And you are 100% right

I'm just speaking about it because of Yareli Prime trailer

[woven coyote]

Havent watched it yet

[misty helm]

Oh, sorry

Guess you're up for a little surprise on that

Or not so much taking into account certain aspects of the Orokin

[proper barn]

I mean the thing i like is Ballas was looking at guy and girl Yuvans. proving that gender is fake and doesn't matter.

again.

[prime cove]

Yeah. Why would gender matter to a body-hopper anyway?

[proper barn]

Why indeed.

not even just that the orokin can change how they look TO LOOK LIKE ANYTHING THEY WANT.

even the drifter has a whole convesation chain with Quincy that is just "nah Gender and Fake and not really for me my pants are literally full of Void i can be whatever i want".

[misty helm]

The Orokin were quite hedonistic so a lot of things didn't matter to them.

[proper barn]

gender is fake and doesn't matter at all is my favorite lore point. When i say that i mean in a "oh you can be whatever you want" kind of jovial way.

[misty helm]

I wonder if some female Warframes like Valkyr or so, were not necessarily the product of a female subject but a pure design-led output.

Like in the sense of, given how much control the Orokin had over genetics and basically a lot of other things, does the subject gender really correlates to the final design? If they wanted, they could always morph the flesh of a male subject to end up with a female-looking Warframe.

[proper barn]

disagree with this just cuz all the frames we know of like the infested and even gen 2 and onward frames the animations and like even parts of the design are based on them themselves.

like the general shape and like "vibe" of the warframe is based on the person that is made into it.

[misty helm]

Yeah, but we don't really know how their subjects looked like

We just have the final product

[proper barn]

I mean i am just taking

what we know. Quincy talks to us about the animations and like "oh the animations of the frame are what is left of the original persons personality".

[proper barn]

yeah

Gender is fake and doesn't matter.

[graceful swan]

Gender is fake when you’re rich enough to swap bodies

[proper barn]

Well also if you're a void thing. OR EVEN IF YOUR FLARE OR ANYONE OR TICKER OR ANYONE.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IT'S ALL FAKE IT'S UP TO YOU.

DO WHAT YOU WANT.

[graceful swan]

Murmur are definitely genderless

[misty helm]

Personally I would take that with a grain of salt. I would take it more seriously as exposition if it came from Loid. I mean, between merc and an Orokin scientist....

[proper barn]

it comes from the operator

you just say it while talking to him.

[misty helm]

Oh, boi

[proper barn]

drifter*

[peak ether]

It makes sense lore wise why if you’re using a male drifter / operator they decide to act like an idol when using Yareli

[graceful swan]

Operator is banned from 1999

[proper barn]

yeah

that's why i said i meant drifter.

[proper barn]

No male and Female JUST VOID

[peak ether]

Okay Wally calm down

[proper barn]

lul

[misty helm]

Would that mean the operator it's not 100% under control of the Warframe and they're not really 'vessels for the operator'? Given how the warframe can influence in the operator behaviour like that? (animations)

[proper barn]

my point if you don't like the "gender is fake and doesn't matter" is "gender is a construction and you are free to alter it or not or just not even use it if you want."

[proper barn]

They never have been.

They never where empty vessels.

[silk atlas]

Or male Operator could just be feeling 💕💅✨Bonita~✨💅💕

[peak ether]

To some extent yes

[proper barn]

i mean our drifter and operator

[peak ether]

Damn that blows a hole right through my interpretation

[proper barn]

are only referfed to by they

[misty helm]

I mean, we have quite the exposition from Ballas himself and Ordis, with Umbra being the only exception so far until Jade came about

[proper barn]

No?

literally untrue.

[peak ether]

IMO that’s the games way of referring to us without overhauling the dialogue completely for genders

[silk atlas]

We already had Dante before this.
Even then, the whole reason for the Warframes being killed off before the Tenno came back was because they were uncontrollable.

[misty helm]

In what sense

[proper barn]

cuz the exposition is how The operators made all the warframes like Actually listen to them.

[misty helm]

I know

That's why they made them into 'husks'

[proper barn]

it is. But If we want we can say DE has made us all non-binary and that will make someone upset.

and that's fun.

[proper barn]

even husk didn't listen to the orokin.

cuz they needed the operators someone that could actually control them.

[silk atlas]

He didn't use "husk" to describe them during the Sacrifice. Can't remember where that word was used to describe them, though.

[proper barn]

bio drones.

[misty helm]

Ofc

[misty helm]

A body or a 'surrogate' when talking to Umbra

[silk atlas]

...Not what I mean. I'm trying to remember where "husk" was used to describe the Warframes.

[misty helm]

That's just me

I don't recall if Ballas ever refered to the Warframes in that way

Quotes from The Sacrifice:
But, you won't have to imagine. A lovingly cultured Infestation swarms within your blood. Your transformation has begun, reshaping you into a sacred surrogate of the unholy Tenno. A Warframe with but a Single, Burning, Memory. It is... a miracle!

Distorted by vague horrors, we kept the Zariman survivors within a secret Reservoir. They were the missing half. Transference-linked: the Warframes, the body - and they, the mind. I give you now the coordinates and codes to this place, but Do Not underestimate these devils, Hunhow. They did what we could not. We had created monsters that we couldn't--

In correlation to the statement of the Operators being the literal driving force behind a Warframe

[graceful swan]

Isn’t the whole point of Warframes that they aren’t empty husks?

[misty helm]

In this case, 'the mind'

You mean literally?

[proper barn]

i mean the top one is about Umbra. the bottom one is about all warframes.

[misty helm]

Yes

[proper barn]

it leads into the like "they knew how to look into a ulgy broken thing and take away it's pain"

but that's all warframes.

Just all the other ones we have done that too except UMbra.

[misty helm]

Beyond that, Ballas also refers to how it's "a miracle" that there's a Warframe with 'a single, burning memory'

[proper barn]

umbra was never used by a Tenno.

[graceful swan]

Until he was

[proper barn]

he was one of the last Warframes to be made and was TRAPPED IN THE MOON FOR 1000 YEARS

HE DOESN'T GET OUT OF THE MOON UNTIL WE TAKE IT OUT OF THE VOID

[misty helm]

In complementation, Ordis also refers to the impossibility of a Warframe having memories at all

[proper barn]

yeah cuz Ordis is wrong

[peak ether]

https://tenor.com/view/cinema-gif-5935759059195122434

[proper barn]

ordis also said ghosts weren't real.

[graceful swan]

Ordis also isn’t omniscient

[proper barn]

yeah

Ordis is just a helper.

[misty helm]

Yeah, I believe that part you're mentioning refers to how the 'Tenno' can, somehow, bring peace to something that it's impossible to have peace because it's broken (it's a monster).

We had created monsters we couldn't control. We drugged them, tortured them, eviscerated them... we brutalized their minds, but it did not work. Until they came. And it was not their force of will, not their Void devilry, not their alien darkness... it was something else. It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly broken thing...and take away its pain.

[graceful swan]

Ballas uses flowery language

[proper barn]

the power is empathy btw.

that's it.

[misty helm]

I'd say it's their void magic, but that's just me.

[graceful swan]

And Transference

[proper barn]

HE LITERALLY SAYS

[misty helm]

I know

[proper barn]

it's NOT THAT

You went "Ordis told me something so it's true" but Ballas litearlly saying "no it's not that way" WHEN HE IS THE CREATOR OF THE WARFRAMES

also @misty helm This Orokin Ipad is the one Ballas gives hunhow.

The one umbra found.

And that lead ballas to turning Umbra into Umbra.

[misty helm]

I don't think that Balla's "Void devilry" is the same as my void magic

[proper barn]

it literally is.

[graceful swan]

The empathy isn’t Void magic
Us doing it required Void magic though

[misty helm]

No, no. Literally. Mine it's just a hyperbole statement to generalize something that cannot be described by anything else that just a meme.

Ballas thing is just character exposition, so I won't be adding too much to that.

[proper barn]

you're wrong.

i'm sorry.

[misty helm]

Ever heard of the meme ´space magic´ or something like that?

It's a joke statement

[sage moat]

is the implication with the technocyte coda that they are somehow playing music in space

because cy says "space is silent again, as it should be"
how are they making sound in space?

[normal mountain]

Either it's radio transmission broadcast, or it's 'Infested don't give a s*** about laws of physics'

[sage moat]

radio transmission would make more sense ig

[lilac aspen]

I like to believe they’re breaking the laws of physics through sheer vibes

[viscid scroll]

theyre relasing spores that carry sound on them

[sage moat]

i think the technocyte coda are also really interesting because they do give genuine insights into who these people were outside of their stage personas

[proper barn]

I mean not really? They are literally like more "acceptable" versions of the band made for interviews. Basically a chat bot made by the company.

[sage moat]

no they aren't!

[proper barn]

Yes they are.

[sage moat]

hold on lemme find his quotes, i dont mean to be mean i just literally just saw these in game

[proper barn]

What are you talking about? I can get you the lore for it. It's why they repeat them.

Cuz they are basically only able to use the phrases they had coded in.

[sage moat]

From the various coda, boldened are the ones that are like extremely obviously not sanitized:
"All that talk you hear about fame bein' like a cult? It ain't that far off."
"Look, what do you want, an interview? I'll give you two minutes, right now. Any questions you have that aren't about our personal lives, I'll answer."
"You own our contracts, not our souls."
"It doesn't matter how much you know about the process if you don't have what it takes to pull it off."
"If all your artists are giving you trouble, maybe the problem isn't with them."
"Oh, you have a boyfriend? Where's he tonight?"
"If management gives us one more passive-aggressive smile, I'm gonna snap."
"For Sol's sake, don't take this out on me!"
"After another headline? Fine. Do your worst."
"Please, no more pizza. Just the thought makes me wanna hurl..."
"Man, to tell you the truth, I'm just so damn tired."
"Wondering what people say about me, sometimes, I get these... I guess they're called panic attacks."
"Any exec who says we're like family is gettin' the side-eye from me. I mean, are we stackin' paper, or we playin' house?"

[proper barn]

Okay I would say it's kinda like what's the word controlled opposition. That OR they are taking old qoutes from Onlyne.

[sage moat]

yes! im saying that these are old backstage quotes from onlyne.

[proper barn]

But these are literally copies that the company made so they could do phone interviews and stuff and he more controlled. You might already know that.

[sage moat]

yes! but gone wrong. possibly these personalities are "in their dna" which would be weird. i think its more likely that the company just scraped any audio they could find

the coda give us some insight into what the onlyne boys were like offstage. the big ones being that zeke is a hedonist and maybe even a narcissist, harddrive is a misogynist, drillbit is just zeke but in it for influence rather than praise, packet is a CHILD and should not have been forced into this corporate hellscape, and DJ RoM is really resentful towards the execs and might want to leave the band but can't --- prolly due to contract business.

my reads on them, at least

and like. this doesn't say anything about wally or rusalka or the void or ballas, these are irrelevant characters that mean next to nothing. i just think its neat

DJ RoM might be the only member who isn't insanely superficial. which would make sense if --- as the DJ --- he's the one making most of the actual music

his quotes like "Anyone can critique a finished album. But few have the talent to create one from scratch." and "It doesn't matter how much you know about the process if you don't have what it takes to pull it off." might actually be to the other bandmates.

[viscid scroll]

Why do Kuva Queens use grineer cloned bodies while they're 100% capable of using human hosts

[north ferry]

Good question

[restive river]

If I had to guess it’s because they have an actual connection to the clones

[proper barn]

are they?

they would need to steal someone and like get them back to the asteroid fortress which is always moving.

[proper barn]

It would be hard for even the grinner to keep up with them. also they wanna be in secret if they where just abducing people it would probably set off a few alarm bells and make it easier to like find them.

[viscid scroll]

They controll an empire that controlls multiple planets, kidnapping a suitable host wouldn't be an issue and transporting them to the kuva fortress once they do wouldn't be that difficult either if it's for the royalty itself the grineer could certainly do that

Grineer already fighting at multiple places with humans avaible for capture, and i think there was a mention of kidnapping humans by grineer before, idk what kind of secrecy we're talking about 2 people going missing in a war zone wouldn't really be a big thing

[proper barn]

It would be a issue. when like THE CORPUS COULD FIND THE QUEENS.

like take the tenno out of it for a sedcond.

the Kuva Fortess moves because they want to keep the queens save. we don't even see the units in the fortess until then so they are there seemingly mostly for defense and for like i guess elite missions if they just stole random people like even just the corpus would probably notice where they are going.

and probably realize where the kuva fortress is.

also even then the kuva fortess and the queens don't leave it in that quest they get Teshin to TRY to lure us to them.

[viscid scroll]

There's non corpus owned areas where they could people for and even if they kidnap corpus hosts the grineer are certainly capable of transporting 2 hosts in secrecy and analyzing the bodies before hand to make sure they dont have suicide bomb type things implanted by corpus, the idea that a multi planet empire wouldn't be capable of this is a bit absurd

[proper barn]

also I think they have a limited amount of Kuva.

[proper barn]

I would just aruge they wanna not be exposed cuz like the base isn't actually that big it's like where all the Grinner leadership is.

[viscid scroll]

They'd save kuva by using long lasting hosts rather than quickly degrading grineer clones since they'd have to transfeer less often

[proper barn]

they seemd to be in those bodies for a while

also they seemed to be dsynced cuz they are twins and thus the same age. idk.

[viscid scroll]

Sure but I'm certain the enormous grineer empire is capable of kidnapping 2 people in silence without being tracked

[proper barn]

I would just propose to you that they really cared about being in reclusion

until they saw exactly the tenno and how they are forever young and very powerful.

like it wasnt' worth it to risk that stuff

until they saw us.

[viscid scroll]

Kuva fortress certainly isn't completely isolated to the point where they can't have a ship come to them every ~30 years for new bodies for the queens

[proper barn]

Like if they are gonna go out of hiding and like actually try to get a host it has to be our POWER LEVEL.

for it to be WORTH exposing themselves.

[viscid scroll]

I really don't think they'd be exposing themselves by kidnapping 2 people every X years

[proper barn]

by why take the chance?

when you have millions of willing followers?

[viscid scroll]

How would that affect the followers?

[proper barn]

they would see it as a honor.

the Queens where put in as leaders by the grinner.

[viscid scroll]

the grineer literally have the obedience to queens coded in them

[proper barn]

the grinner are a meritocracy

a very odd kind of meritocracy and very messed up but they did not have to listen to the queens.

[proper barn]

yes and no.

they can and did and will kill orokin.

the Grinner even "met" the queens cuz they Queens where fighting agaisnt them and the Grinner like saw the fact they where twins as like a great thing and the fact they where so good at fighting is why they where made into the grinner leaders. @viscid scroll

But after the Queens became the leaders the grinner now have like a "loyality" gene in them.

[viscid scroll]

Yeah we're discussing modern grineer not orokin era

[proper barn]

this is context.

I will always explain in context. cuz me just saying "oh yeah the grinner have to obey the queens" could mean so many things.

[viscid scroll]

grineer queens using human hosts really doesn't affect that anyway

[restive river]

Isn’t it that because the queens are Orokin that the loyalty gene makes the grineer loyal to them?
Though I can also see it being the case that they modified them slightly too, iirc the Grineer and Queens originally had a sorta kinship too so their relationship seems maybe a bit more complex in some ways?

[proper barn]

Okay we just see the orokin grinner just kill Orokin. that's why i think that gene to serve the queens was probably added later.

[restive river]

Also on the whole
Kuva fortress thing
Vinny is right that it’d be difficult to get anyone there, the fortress has to constantly move, most Grineer have never met the queens, some still think both are alive even

[proper barn]

or the loyalty gene might just be just for the grinner leadership

whoever that is.

[viscid scroll]

a one transport in x years done in secrecy by elite grineer forces realyl shouldn't be that difficult

[proper barn]

It might expose them zerg.

also that's the lore idk what you want.

[viscid scroll]

do they have grineer cloning on the kuva fortress?

[proper barn]

probably.

[restive river]

It’s been a bit since I’ve read the kuria but from what I remember they had a kinship
The queens were disgarded for being twins, symbolic of dualism instead of the vain faith
The Grineer are all clones, similar to twins
Once the empire collapses the twin orokin sisters have a bond with the thousands of twinning clones

[proper barn]

but that's after

the twins actually fought the grinner.

like the Queens actively fought the grinner and then that's how they came to like revear them cuz for your reason but also how well they worked together in combat.

"Like chisel to stone
War molded the twins
Who ravaged the hordes
Became legend to them"

[restive river]

Shouldn’t be but maybe it is
They need to keep the location as much of a secret as possible and like I believe I had said, maybe the queens specifically go with Grineer bodies due to the kinship they have
They only get fed up with it enough when one of them comes up with the plan to use a Tenno instead, luring them in, making them sneak in isn’t as “loud” as figuring out other transports

[proper barn]

also that.

but also what i said the tenno are like a SUPER BODY.

they would never have to change it and they would have all kinds of powers.

[restive river]

The Tenno’s numbers may be fewer but they’re the best at stealth in the system

[proper barn]

so it's worth exposing themselves for the chance

to get us.

[restive river]

Unknown if continuiting to a Tenno would grant void powers

We’ve had 2 instances of Orokin getting close and ultimately failing for external reasons

[proper barn]

i mean it should right? they are just controlling us?

[restive river]

That’s
Not what continuity is

[proper barn]

okay fair.

it's more them stripping away all of what makes us US and then they would replace us.

[restive river]

It’s their consciousness jumping from one body to the other, the new body’s consciousness, in this case ours would die
Continuity is murder so that the Orokin can continue living from body to body

[proper barn]

yeah.

[restive river]

So the question then is
Is our piece of Wally tied to our consciousness or our body?
I’m inclined to say consciousness since we don’t seem to physically have the piece on us and we can transform our bodies from matter into void energy

[proper barn]

we are still like a void enriched person

that doesn't really age. So idk.

[restive river]

Void saturated

[restive river]

We do age

[proper barn]

FEELING SATURATED

[restive river]

We didn’t cause of cryosleep
It seems Rell did age though

[proper barn]

idk if rell aged or if his body like

[restive river]

The Tenno have void saturated DNA, our very being, physically and mentally is intertwined with the piece of Wally that he granted to us all

[proper barn]

phyiscially like started breaking down.

[restive river]

That
Is what aging is

Aging is weird tbh

Like you don’t technically die of old age, you die from your body breaking down

[proper barn]

i immedialty realized you might say that. i meant more in like a he is not aging a tradional sense

[restive river]

It is difficult since we have a sample size of uh. 1

[proper barn]

just more always being in a transferance loop like basiclly wastes away his body.

like he's getting chemo or something but it's void chemo.

[restive river]

And he is an odd case because he was also dealing with Wally and binding him and all that

The way I see it
His body aged and decayed while his mind stayed within his frame to bind Wally for as long as he could
And once we broke the shackles and took on the responsibility his mind had no where to go so. He died
Drifted into nothing, his final rest

Meanwhile we took responsibility for Wally and through the piece of him we have had since the Zariman he has been stalking us through our mind

He’s never physically there in the Orbiter
He’s just
Popping up in our mind through our piece, like how the finger drive on the railjack can move, how he can speak through it
He is connected through all pieces of himself

Which is why the Murmur is him fighting us more directly
Cause
It is him, just a smaller piece of him

And those smaller pieces congregate into a bigger one to try and lay the red carpet for him
Skin cells opening a door

[proper barn]

I see it more as like a illness wasting him away cuz he could never rest. He was just in a endless transferance loop which like a disease ate at his body. I see what you mean though.

[restive river]

I mean that’s what I mean
He died of “old age”, which you don’t actually die from it’s. Everything else
Body breaking down
Diseases
He didn’t have the dream to protect his body while his mind did everything it could just to hold Wally back

[proper barn]

Yeah. I guess we have different ideas what like "aging" means in this context.

[restive river]

His consciousness was clearly separated from his body enough that once it was gone he remained

[restive river]

It is unfortunately unknown if he did like. Age age
Like
His body withered into an old man and then dust
It’s probable since the Tenno are still human, just void saturated
We’re immortal but only just

Again, it’s difficult cause we have a sample size of 1 with missing information

[proper barn]

Yeah. That's I guess is what I'm getting at.

Did he stay like "looking young" just turning into like a mummy/rasin or luke actually grow old.

[restive river]

Like the tenno themselves die if their consciousness dies but with Rell it seems to not matter as much for their body, obviously it’s important but he was able to just
Be in Harrow for over a thousand years without it

Meanwhile Gara exploded and Lotus mourned their tenno

[restive river]

I do wonder if disease and natural body processes breaking down took place or not
Like
The Tenno are still human so to some extent natural processes that are built in should occur, but diseases cause harm and while we do feel pain it doesn’t last for us

Like we can be stabbed
Feel the shock of it
But be fine

Mentally and emotionally scarring
Physically? Not so much

[viscid scroll]

Tbh I think the lore is simply incosistent and the way it works hasn't been thought through fully

[restive river]

Perhaps the void preserves the Tenno’s bodies to a degree, natural occurrences still occur
Thirst, hunger, pain
But physical damage from outside sources, while damaging, do not last as they are not natural to the body

[restive river]

Or
We just lack a full understanding cause knowing it all right away doesn’t give us much to think on :p

[viscid scroll]

Maybe but I'm leaning to what I said

[restive river]

Like we will never have all the details on Wally or Xaku for example
And that’s a good thing, that leaves mystery, theories, conversations like these where we can speculate on what is occurring and how
Are we correct? Unknown
Will we ever find out? Unknown
And that’s okay, it may be frustrating but. It’s okay

The other issue is some lore is just so old that it’s hard to touch on again, so while it may be thought out we just don’t get to see that

Like
Trust me, when writing out a world not every detail will be seen or make it to the public’s eyes, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist
Just that we don’t get the chance to see it for whatever reason

I have faith enough in DE that even if something hasn’t been fully thought out before they will find a way for it to make sense IF it is relevant
Which
Sometimes it just isn’t, they do so much more than write out a world after all

[viscid scroll]

That's rather obvious

Though I'm still doubtful that the game has that much world building behind it

[restive river]

I mean
It has a good bit :p

[lean garden]

like the different reports that someone on the narrative time claims that the unum made rev p

no official sources tell us that, save for all these acnedotes

[viscid scroll]

I feel like early warframe did more on the world building and fleshing out factions then there was a shift from that as the game continued, I'd personally prefer the story to be more faction oriented with grineer corpus etc like it is in early game

[brittle siren]

so basically: Yareli was interfering with the Continuation, that Ballas decide to turn her into a warframe?

[brittle siren]

I mean the only person know Revenant appearance is the mask child, Unum and us, and surely both us and that child could not able to make a warframe out of nowhere

[strange plinth]

seems like she was being rebellious and not pristine and proper for the yuvan/continuity ceremony, yeah
ballas decided the punishment would be getting helminth'd

[brittle siren]

but he never guessed that she would also able to control herself

also is Prime version and normal one is the same?

like if the lore only tie her as one person, she could only either prime or base, or both (and base form is just a aftermath

[proper belfry]

Anyone know what happened to this? Decoration name is "A lost time", from the stalker and jade thing, iirc
Left pic is taken 2nd May, right pic is taken today

[brittle siren]

that not from Jade quest though

[strange plinth]

that's from either new war or angels iirc

[proper belfry]

Mb I forgot 😔

Still curious as to what happened to it though, no idea why it's cracked

[strange plinth]

its always been cracked, looks like something might be up with the reflection though

[lean garden]

there has never really been a case for prime warframes to "degrade" into bases

we've had 1 confirmed case of a base specifically becoming a prime, and a suggested case, but never the reverse process

[proper belfry]

Damn my bad 😔 I thought there was some hidden thing that changed lol
I apologize lore chat

[lean garden]

I think the issue is that the factions are fleshed out, save for the infestation, which we got more of in techrot encore

[brittle siren]

so she was upgrade into a Prime afterwards?

[brittle siren]

also who is the confirmed case?

[lean garden]

the only real avenues for the original factions to be more fleshed out is the parvos side of the corpus

even the grineer got more indepth with kahl of duty

[lean garden]

lavos

[viscid scroll]

They've been fleshed out but haven't developed much since

[proper barn]

Wrong.

We literally only got Corpus lore like in 2020.

[lean garden]

rather the girl in question was directly made into a yareli, no specific news on what version of yareli

[proper barn]

What you mean they did more lore in early warframe on the factions.

[brittle siren]

so how does Protea Prime work? does Parvos and Ballas made a Prime first then Parvos make base version as spector?

[proper barn]

We literally didn't know anything about the Corpus.

[viscid scroll]

deadlock protocol was cool but I wish there was more depth to the board conflict, then parvos shows up and theres not much attention paid to it

[lean garden]

ballas makes protea prime, keeps it for the orokin, ballas also makes protea and gives to ballas

[brittle siren]

based on trailer, prime pretty much the same with base I think

[proper barn]

He literally has been the main villain in 2 updates.

3 If you wanna count Zariman kinda.

[lean garden]

thats not a conclusion you can reasonably walk away with

[proper barn]

So you're wrong Zerg I'm sorry.

[brittle siren]

and the lab too

[proper barn]

I wasn't counting Deadlock

So 4? Sisters too.

5? If you want.

Also @viscid scroll we literally have had the most infested lore we have ever had with 1999. Like come on dog be for real.

[brittle siren]

I mean if the Vent kid use the base version for her comic, and also know her Prime version, unless it's imply that both Yareli arrive there and do the same thing (saving vent kid etc)

[proper barn]

It seemed more since she was being sassy he made her into a warframe.

[brittle siren]

Mirage and Yareli would be best friend fr

[lean garden]

You uh, realise that the comic is not about the vent kids

[brittle siren]

no no I mean they make the comic

[proper barn]

Which someone mentioned earlier the fact Ballas was looking at like girl Yuvans we have a second like "gender isn't real and doesn't matter" moment.

[brittle siren]

they have to see Yareli to know how she looks like, so they could add her in the comic

[viscid scroll]

My split of warframe timeline is bad so sorry for that I played in like 2019- 2020 and the game been out for a long time so using early is incorrect but still Id rather have a corpus and grineer focused storylines than man in the wall

[viscid scroll]

what does he do on zarimann

[proper barn]

I mean we will get both. I think Parvos is gonna be a big like player in the Wally arch. I think we will also see more modern infested lore is still my call.

[strange plinth]

what else can really be done with grineer and corpus currently
they're still fighting over the origin system, until one gets some big powerup, they're not super relevant

[lean garden]

The Vent kids didnt write the comic lol

[proper barn]

Well Calvero talks about him but also it's called out that his Corpus are the ones invading when the coprus invade The Zariman.

[brittle siren]

who did though?

[lean garden]

Not the vent kids thats for sure

like the comic was a collectible item

[proper barn]

I mean i think Parvos is being talked to by Wally maybe a little but That's just me.

[lean garden]

like Superman #1 from the golden age of comics

[strange plinth]

yeah i'd say parvos has contact with wally
but he's still not using it for anything, yet

[proper barn]

I think we might have a Queens situation where he will he like a agonist for a quest where we power up.

[lean garden]

Lol, as someone who's been around in warframe since the open beta, we've had a lot of grineer and corpus storylines back then

[viscid scroll]

Well have a quest about the conflict

[proper barn]

I'm saying coprus only recently have actual lore.

[lean garden]

I think its hard to have a grineer/corpus main story when we have an active major threat in the way

[viscid scroll]

Isnt that what I said

[lean garden]

when did kahl of duty come out again?

[proper barn]

I was more thinking Deadlock. But he was after the Zariman Right?

[proper barn]

You said lore.

Not story lines.

[brittle siren]

still, if Yareli Prime also do the same thing that the base one did (eg: helping ppl) then should Prime also be mention anywhere too? Why only the base?

Or, my theory is, the Prime in trailer is us controlling her

[viscid scroll]

Okay well both, the general vague attention to their lore story etc

[proper barn]

2 different things.

[lean garden]

sure, but you didnt really touch on the idea that we've already got deeper inroads into the OG factions (sans infested) than we do for the current focus

[proper barn]

Oh in Fortuna? Yeah.

The background is Ballas talking to the other 7. @brittle siren

[lean garden]

Well, what say you to BoTB/Jade Shadows/Ascension for corpus lore?

[proper barn]

Like he does in most of them.

Cus he says at the end "Here is X"

[proper barn]

Or the lab lore for parvos and durus.

[brittle siren]

well in Yareli he did not mention "Prime" in it

[proper barn]

Yeah he never says prime I just made that up

So I edited it lmao.

[viscid scroll]

Jade shadows is really short and I like that the corpus are a side in it but they're not particularrly fleshed out in that story

[lean garden]

Ascension and BoTB?

[proper barn]

Parvos has so many lines in ascension

[brittle siren]

so yeah maybe the base is that girl and prime just another version that has nothing to do with the vent kid, and we use in in the present

[proper barn]

Yee

That's what I always thought.

Otherwise most of the trailers don't make sense.

[brittle siren]

that make more sense

[viscid scroll]

whats BoTB

[lean garden]

Typically prime trailer footage can be taken as present day shenanigans

[strange plinth]

the parvos-ordis banter was the best part of botb

[brittle siren]

we basically succeed Yareli work

[lean garden]

Belly of the Beast, the twice run operation that introduced ascension

focusing on Parvos granum doing the work his corpus goons in Jade Shadows failed to do

which is to secure jade motes to further his jade eximus project

[brittle siren]

tbh Lavos don't have trailer with Ballas narrating is fair, since I doubt he would know Lavos prime even exist

[lean garden]

which essentially has significant back and forth between ordis and parvos, which characterises parvos as essentially a funky hypocrite

[viscid scroll]

I have not played it

[brittle siren]

Sevagoth and Xaku in other hand is a miss potential

[lean garden]

because for all Parvos did to make the corpus and separate himself from the Orokin, he's just like them

Which implied that the real issue parvos had with the orokin, was that he wasnt one of them

[brittle siren]

you dont need to, just play Ascension mission node on Uranus

[strange plinth]

imagine javi narrating lavos prime's trailer or something

[strange plinth]

parvos dialog isn't in regular ascension, just the botb variation

[brittle siren]

the Janitor? or the Archimedean that put in jail?

[brittle siren]

it does though?

[lean garden]

eh?

[strange plinth]

i swear parvos is not present during regular ascension-
is it a bug?

[viscid scroll]

Okay well I was wrong about deadlock not going anywhere, though I'd much more prefer these to be actual quests rather than timed events since when you don't play during these you don't get the faction storylorebla bla

[lean garden]

Parvos Granum: "Is that...? The Beast of Bones? Unbelievable. They made ballads of you, Ordan. Shadow figures. Told your story on alley walls, children sat agog to listen! A legacy wasted. Troops! Dismantle this puny operation, and retrieve the volatile motes for the Eximus project."
Ordis: "The man you refer to is dead. But Ordis is sure he would also have told you to GET FFF- far out of our way.

[lean garden]

honestly I havent noticed, but the transcripts for the base gamemode itself only has ordis talking

[brittle siren]

ah yeah just check, you were right

[lean garden]

eh thats fair, but still, if you wanted more parvos, he's all up in drusus's bum in deimos disruption

Parvos Granum: "Do you remember Corposium, Ordan? Do you recall the founding principle brazened proudly in letter, not of arrogant gold but honest brass, 'None shall be slaves.' We used simple robotics, not cloned labour or mind shackled Cephalons, and we do so to this day! In Corposium's name, I offer you sanctuary."
What a fat liar LMAO

Some organic crewmen are purpose bred, and never mind the debt slaves your corpus made parvos

and like, the index uses cephalons too what are you on parvos

[brittle siren]

tbf most of the slave and cloning is from the current Corpus

[lean garden]

please note the key operator "to this day"

[strange plinth]

the archimedian yeah, that got executed and transmuted into lavos' second snake
would be interesting if he got a voice briefly, even if just a memory or something of whatever he was telling lavos

[strange plinth]

doesn't darvo say that the corpus literally sell cephalons lmfao

[brittle siren]

I think he was talking about HIS corpus no? I mean the current one is not dead yet

[viscid scroll]

Are cephalons made in modern era

[brittle siren]

Frohd Bek still alive and well

[brittle siren]

all of them are Orokin era

[proper barn]

Are we sure?

[viscid scroll]

So corpus is selling orokin era cephalons?

[brittle siren]

I mean beside Glassmaker, no one know how to do it anymore

[proper barn]

Idk Simaris seems really like

Surprised at how old Ordis is.

Also I assumed the coprus made some but they might not.

[brittle siren]

ordis voice is young

which compare to Ordan, really young

[lean garden]

He invokes corposium's name

unless corposium is meant to be entirely divorced from what the corpus are today (which they arent because theyre the corpus entity that came from parvos and not a similar sounding group)

[brittle siren]

Isnt that the capital of Corpus, aka Parvos home, aka the OG Corpus?

[strange plinth]

"What is this? An antique Series-2 Cephalon? All I found were degraded beyond repair, but you're still functional. Your abilities could be of great use in my Sanctuary." simaris during new strange, referring to ordis

[proper barn]

Well no. Simaris is surprised at like Ordis being a surviving Gen 2 Cephalon.

[lean garden]

what you think that in the absence of parvos the corpus just left his home?

[brittle siren]

Again, to be fair, he is rebuilding his old Corpus, so he is talking about his own empire, neglect the current one that lead by Frohd Bek

also is Frohd Bek even the highest in Corpus?

[lean garden]

ok, then here's a damn piece of hypocracy, "none shall be slaves" and yet his tenent plaque has a picture of him enslaving someone

[brittle siren]

well beside that, but isn't his "slave" are from the Frohd Bek Corpus volunteer to follow Parvos?

[lean garden]

The values he proports now are the same back then and the ones back then are filthy lies

[lean garden]

"none shall be slaves", the moment any concept of "slavery" is included makes that a steamy pile of horse dung

[brittle siren]

I mean he himself is a slave, why would he do the same thing that the Orokin did to his family

[lean garden]

because he's a hypocrite

[strange plinth]

Frohd Bek and Nef Anyo are the only two current corpus board members we know of i believe

[lean garden]

who is just as morally bankrupt as the orokin

[brittle siren]

and Alad I think?

[strange plinth]

Alad might be off the board after the sentient stuff
or the infested stuff
or the skinning-a-warframe-for-a-questionable-project stuff

[proper barn]

Okay Parvos is Megatron akd the rest of the Coprus Leaders are Starscream. Like they really really wanna be leader but Parvos thinks they are all bad at being evil. Like his "the coprus are fat upon the works of others" he wants The Corpus to he more efficiently evil.

They aren't being evil enough.

[brittle siren]

Nef by far the most useless one in the board lmao, he contributed nothing. Even Frohd able to steal and produce more Ambulas

[proper barn]

Okay I would say like fortuna is actually a big asset but he's just terrible at it.

Like they are digging up Orokin Artifacts.

[brittle siren]

idk how he still on the Board while Alad V that have actual talent is off

[proper barn]

We won't agree.

[brittle siren]

he also have the Index too

[lean garden]

Because Alad V keeps getting into comical trouble

[strange plinth]

god there's apparently fourteen members of the board no wonder they can't get anything done efficiently

[lean garden]

Like on multiple occasions he's thrown the corpus under the bus for something else

The infested, the sentients

[swift sentinel]

Have we heard Frohd Bek since the Ambulas event, because from memory that's the last we chronologically hear from him and we blow up his ship.

[strange plinth]

according to the wiki, no
last action was ordering the bridge be ejected from the ship right before it explodes
unknown if he survived
also unknown if wiki is accurate, will look on the archives in a moment if no one else beats me to it
archives looks to have the same conclusion

[glossy dragon]

yareli reasembled any creature?

like you know rhino is...a rhino etc etc

[viscid scroll]

a fish

[proper barn]

yeah just fish.

Aquatic creature.

[glossy dragon]

oh i see

thought there would be a specific one, aight thanks

damn farming them yareli relics for half an hour now got single one and got 1/4 for yareli parts

[mystic lynx]

Prime kinda looks like Axolotl

[short chasm]

Mizutsune miku

[jolly talon]

can somebody explain the whole murmur and 1999 lore to me, i returned to this game not so long ago, i finished all the quests but i am confused as hell

[short chasm]

Murmer is wally's hands and eyes

[strange plinth]

going to try to explain this as brief as possible
the murmur are parts of the man in the wall, attacking albrecht's labs for mostly unknown reasons
albrecht went back in time to the plague year, and made protoframes using helminth batches, and took samples of those protoframes back to origin to mix with deimos's gray strain and make the vessels, the big gray guys in the labs, whose full purpose is still unknown
the man in the wall feeds off of negative emotion and is weakened by positive emotion, which is why reminding loid of his love for albrecht warded him off, and why we need to 'get to know' the hex

[jolly talon]

so through dating arthur the tenno are defending the origin system

wow

[strange plinth]

the dating is optional, but yeah,

[sage moat]

i feel like "the man in the wall feeds off of negative emotion and is weakened by positive emotion" is almost incorrect in its simplification but i dont fully understand it myself

[tall echo]

Well we don't know what he feeds on but we know that he can be repelled with the power of friendship

[sage moat]

is "repelled" the right word?

[tall echo]

(I love that we now know what the elusive plague year from the og mire description is)

[tall echo]

He was pushed out of 1999 so I'd say yes

[sage moat]

see my interpretation was something like: albrecht created the indifference with fear and later hate, so the indifference is made of fear and hate. by confronting the indifference instead with love, we can create an indifference made of love instead

change what you're showing the mirror, you get a different reflection. maybe a happier one

[sage moat]

this is valid tho

[lean garden]

Well, it is stated that memory of love holds him at bay

So theres a sort of

Anathematic quality of love on wally

[sly ibex]

No more discussion about this topic, please. This was in relation to now-deleted messages.

[sage moat]

thank you 🙏

[stark bridge]

in Kullervo's wiki page, it says that he arrived in Duviri in a ball of fire, the impact creating Kullervo's Hold.

It also states that Kullervo's normal helmet resembles Dominus Thrax, yet when you fight him he's wearing his alt helmet.

Are there any theories or lore bits that mention how exactly Kullervo was sent / banished to Duviri, or what he looked like before he was in Duviri?

[brittle siren]

Void Shenanigans ig

[brittle siren]

Also the alt helmet is the original one

[sly ibex]

I think he was banished there by Ballas, wasn't he?

[sage moat]

trying to think of an actual lore question to pivot,
do you think that albrecht and wally are meant to enhance warframe's themes of parenthood and childhood? i brought this up with a friend and albrecht creating wally might make for a really interesting further explanation of the theme that permeated the new war arcc

[brittle siren]

He was punished but sending to the void isn't by Ballas

[lean garden]

What he looked like is likely close to what you see when fighting him, if not exact

[brittle siren]

The Deluxe helmet also really similar to the alt one

(The shape from the top I meant)

[stark bridge]

that does make sense, since Kullervo did try to assassinate him, earning him the crime of attempted regicide, which would also explain why Ballas has a manifestation in Duviri, being 'The Warden'

[stark bridge]

it also has the same theme of the head being either hollowed out from the back, or straight up open

[brittle siren]

Tbh there is nowhere saying Ballas actually banished Kullervo though

[lean garden]

Ballas manifests in duviri as the warden because he is kullervo's guilt taken form

[stark bridge]

that's true, but it would make sense if Ballas gave the order, since it would be personal

because... you know

[brittle siren]

Maybe until new Duviri quest or Kullervo Prime we would know more

[stark bridge]

attempted recigide

[brittle siren]

Btw is Kullervo deluxe canon

I haven't read the skin description

[stark bridge]

i'd say it's a little iffy, because Kullervo Apostate takes the theme of regret and guilt and turns it into rage and defiance, so it makes me think that this is what would happen if he did escape from Kullervo's Hold

Kullervo has already dabbled in conceptual embodiment, even if it was accidental, creating The Warden, a personification of Ballas

so it wouldn't surprise me if he did it again but now on himself, fueled by rage and defiance

or it could also be Wally's influence that does it, since both Citrine deluxe and Kullervo deluxe are present in the trailer for Isleweaver, which offers a corrupted view of Duviri

and both Citrine and Kullervo have themes that relate to The Void

[lean garden]

typically CEs have usually been all accidental

Can't really count on one finger a time where something was intentionally cooked up

[stark bridge]

Duviri itself was accidental at first, but the Drifter could shape it at one point, before they lost control of it

[lean garden]

Where was it suggested that Drifter was shaping duviri at one point again?

[stark bridge]

i'm not sure where it was written down or spoken, but i remember a lore bit that said that the Drifter had dominion over Duviri, and went on many journeys with the friends they made there, until their friends turned on them, stripping their control away

[lean garden]

this what you're referring to?

[brittle siren]

Drifter's memories accidentally shape Duviri, not voluntary

[stark bridge]

yeeeaaahh, now i remember, it was in a KIM conversation

[lean garden]

well, everything but the "shape duviri" bit is there

[stark bridge]

it might be a little vague

[brittle siren]

also it was interesting that Duviri citizen know some knowledge of the void after they "existed"

[stark bridge]

a little more vague than i remembered

[lean garden]

I think the key thing to note is that even when Drifter had control over Duviri, I don't think that entailed creating new islands that werent already by technicality there

Duviri tends to lose more islands instead of gain

as shown by the lost islands archive

[stark bridge]

i assume that's because they share the Drifter's knowledge, because they were a student in the Zariman

[brittle siren]

no?????

[stark bridge]

like the Drifter said in another KIM chat: they are Duviri.

[brittle siren]

Duviri isn't Zariman crew

[stark bridge]

Duviri is a place created by The Drifter, a student on the Zariman
that's what i mean

[brittle siren]

ah

[lean garden]

I am naturally curious. I can hardly help it. And so, I set this down for any that follow in my footsteps, who wonder – as I have – about our home.

Today, Duviri is a mere scattering of islands, set about the Palace as if they had spilled forth from it. But in the dawning time, when the Kingdom was new, it was a Kingdom worthy of the name.

From horizon to horizon lay island after island, each one different, bearing distinctive colour and life.

I have flown on Kaithe-back until the Archarbor was lost to sight, and then on again, and have been unable to number the lands over which I flew. Every one of them raised its banners to Thrax.

Nothing remains of those islands now. Not a tree, not a leaf, not a grain of sand.

It seems some of the Lost Islands were smashed by Thrax the King, as— as a child might smash a toy. Others have been obliterated by hazards unknown; the Void is an ocean, it is said, and monsters dwell in its depths. But the vast majority of the islands have simply fallen to the Void's creeping encroachment, as the tides wear away at the land.

I dream of a Lost Island returning one happy day, or an entirely new island appearing, birthed from the Void. But this place has not changed in so long, except for the worse, and there is no reason for hope. One day, I am sure, the Void will engulf us all.

[brittle siren]

I mean sure but there are things like Void angel etc isn't known to Drifter

[stark bridge]

so even the citizens of Duviri would have something related to them, right?

[lean garden]

I mean there was also the bit where albrecht showed up a smidge

[brittle siren]

they self learning after came into existence

[stark bridge]

didn't Scholar's Landing have something to do with that?

[lean garden]

scholar's landing is well

quite literal in its name

[stark bridge]

i haven't heard much about it, just a few words from Teshin

[lean garden]

Its where Albrecht constructed a lab in duviri

[stark bridge]

but he says it while you get the Alchemy gamemode

[lean garden]

before scholar's landing went bye bye

[brittle siren]

wait
he built himself a lab?

[graceful swan]

Scholars Landing is also returning

[stark bridge]

so, before i say what i'm thinking of, Duviri is more or less shaped by the Drifter's emotions or thoughts, right?

[lean garden]

With the King's permission, he constructed a great laboratory of light-smoking mirrors and Void-lanthorns, which he claimed was the match of one he had once owned in a former life. The island where it stood was known as Scholar's Landing.

The time would come, the stranger said, when Duviri would be needed. There was a work of repentance to be done, and he could not do it alone. What he meant by this I cannot say; and cannot now ask, for Scholar's Landing vanished overnight.

[brittle siren]

ah IC

[lean garden]

more or less yes, but moreso in the moment of conception and less so in perpetuity after it was made

[stark bridge]

was there a cannonical reason for the lost islands of Duviri being lost?

[graceful swan]

Wally

[sage moat]

wally hungy

[stark bridge]

so Wally's influence over Duviri basically

[graceful swan]

Yeah

[stark bridge]

but now Wally is officially breaking down the door

in Isleweaver

[brittle siren]

well not entire all Duviri since new update is when he actually take over Thrax

[graceful swan]

Wally went to a School in Duviri and brought black eyed children

[brittle siren]

yeap

[stark bridge]

atp i feel like Wally is starting to lock in and isn't playing with their food anymore

[graceful swan]

Wally went to a lighthouse and killed a man

[stark bridge]

because the Drifter took 1999 from Wally, so Wally is taking Duviri from them

[brittle siren]

I wonder if Wally ever go further into the past beyond 1999

[lean garden]

that is the suggested reason from DE so I've been told

[brittle siren]

to see how stupid human is

[graceful swan]

Did we really take it from Wally though because I don’t remember it being Wally’s in the first place

[brittle siren]

well he take over the loop once or multiple time

[stark bridge]

i think Wally only got to 1999 because it came with Albrecht while he was trying to escape it

[brittle siren]

like in the "you are late" one

[lean garden]

wait hold

I think it was moreso on rulsalka's end

[stark bridge]

that's true, but aftr Wally chased Albrecht to 1999, it kind of took over, impersonating Rusalka, which had control over Hollvania for a while, until The Drifter - by doing idk what - messed up it's plan

which could be why Wally is trying to hit the Drifter where it hurts

[lean garden]

not wally's, although yes its rusalka-wally now

[stark bridge]

Wally could have been using Rusalka as a vessel, to more easily take control of the 1999 Cycle

[brittle siren]

yeah idk why he still need Rusalka though

[lean garden]

because he's got rusalka now

[brittle siren]

as vessel? i mean he did physically appear in front of OP and Yonta

[lean garden]

I don't think its a matter of needing her

I think its a matter that he has her