lore-discussion

[proper barn]

Like I also said we haven't interacted with them for over 1000 years

[viscid scroll]

So there's like an entire solar system of sentients

[proper barn]

We have only ever seen 1 Sentient and his kids from the old war.

Also all the ones we fight are damaged by the Void.

And barren.

[blissful merlin]

Yea I know but I’m asking if they see the same tunnel we do when traveling through the solar rails or if it’s just a flash of white and they’re on the other side

[proper barn]

Yes they see the same thing.

[viscid scroll]

Wth, i wonder what they're up ti

[somber obsidian]

Living their life.

Replicating lots.

[proper barn]

To add to this they have been undisturbed since before the old war ended. Cuz Hunhow destroyed the solar rail to tau in the old war. @viscid scroll

[viscid scroll]

Do they even know they have friends in origin that are trying to kill everyone

[proper barn]

No

All they know is the solar rail went down

They haven't been invaded again and it's been over 1000 years

Also all our invasions against tau have gone really bad in the old war.

They would have continued to evolve and replicate and stuff. Like we only know a singular personality his wife and his kids. Like imagine a whole system full of different hunhows with different personalities and kids and has been developing unbothered for over 1000 years.

[viscid scroll]

Imagine if Ballas succeeded in going to tau and the sentients are confused who he and old war sentients want and who they even are

[proper barn]

THEY PROBABLY WOULD BE

it's been 1000+ years

[viscid scroll]

"what war, who's orokin, is that an alien?"

[proper barn]

Lmao

[viscid scroll]

Tau might be more fractured than origin with different sentient factions too

[proper barn]

Idk about more fractured.

I could see it being actually a kind of paradise.

[somber obsidian]

Do they even forget??

[viscid scroll]

Well i mean divided

[viscid scroll]

Imagine tau sentients are just chill

[proper barn]

Why would they care? We have no inclination to belive they where all as war like as Hunhow.

[somber obsidian]

Are sentients even capable of forgetting

[proper barn]

They might be? They don't care it seems.

[somber obsidian]

true

also for the mag entry reread it

Who’s the angel.

I’m guessing whatever Warframe was with them

[proper barn]

Its mag with the archwing on.

[somber obsidian]

Oh.

LOL.

[viscid scroll]

Tbf they must be busy with something

Maybe theyre at war with aliens :b

Or each other

[somber obsidian]

You think that single mag is alive

I hope they had an endurance build on

Because they’re in deep water

[proper barn]

No

I think they immediately died

[somber obsidian]

gg

[feral cape]

In the like one punch man sense I think they'd be a god Level threat

They're a threat to the whole of humanity but like hypothetically I doubt they could kill a living planet

[somber obsidian]

I mean.

They probably could.

[feral cape]

I mean they couldn't even kill a moon

[somber obsidian]

No they definitely could it’s just we probably wouldn’t let them

[normal mountain]

Morbid thought
Maybe that Mag is the one Nira was made from

[somber obsidian]

That would suck

But I doubt

[feral cape]

If you need to be entirely left alone to do it then I dont consider you an x level threat

[viscid scroll]

Maybe sentients could see themselves as the continuation of the orokin empire like hre

[feral cape]

Like if nobody stopped me I could technically drop a building

[plush phoenix]

prove it

[brittle siren]

I mean a dead Praghasa could eat the whole sun

[blissful merlin]

I wonder what transference feels like into a new frame the operator has never transferred into??? Idk haha. Trying to explain my curious thought 🤣

[lean garden]

I mean, its just like wearing new underpants I assume

Nothing so different from any other underpants that it becomes awkward

But its new

[blissful merlin]

Right..that’s a good explanation haha

We kinda or actually transferred into uhhh jade spoilers I guess lol ||Jade to help with the pregnancy timing right?||

[swift sentinel]

Going back some, but a cursory Google said that the absolute minimum amount of time to notice that the stars have moved is about 50k years

[turbid vigil]

we do have to take into consideration that drifters birth is fairly unknown as it was inside the void which could mean it's far earlier or far later depending on when the void jump happened

[strange plinth]

why would it be in the void?

[turbid vigil]

duviri

[swift sentinel]

void doesn't have stars

[strange plinth]

they weren't born in duviri

[turbid vigil]

or the zariman ig

[strange plinth]

unsure if they were born on the zariman, but it still wouldn't have been after the jump
so regular origin system space

[south sun]

that is a bit up to the player as the Drifter has a few options from what it seemed like

[turbid vigil]

which implies there's a possibility between the zariman leaving and reappearing there could've been an very very long time for the sol system but not a lot for the passengers

[strange plinth]

we see the jump happen from operator's perspective during the new war
and operator and drifter split shortly after, at the deal with wally

[swift sentinel]

Drifters life probably isn't long enough for the stars to change in their lifetime, even with the Duviri part, so it doesn't not affect how 'old' your Drifter became in Duviri since that was more driven by their feelings than an actual passage of time.

[turbid vigil]

i meant it as since stars shift every 50k years or so and we have had an void jump it could mean that we still wouldn't know the time difference between our current sol system and 1999

[strange plinth]

the only people who could know the gap is kaya or eleanor
eleanor if she mapped and calculated the differences, and even then there's a decent margin for error
and kaya because of flare's good ending, but that's shaky

[turbid vigil]

the time passage between us being locked away in new war and drifter reappearing could have contributed to this as well

[turbid vigil]

and also wally

[strange plinth]

wally is seemingly outside of time, he doesn't count
but yeah wally as well

[turbid vigil]

wally has to follow our timeline since it wants to enter really badly

[south sun]

Earth still looks about the same though too.
And DE has redone the starchart a few times, but always keeps Earth "modern".

[turbid vigil]

the reason Wally hasn't appeared in any Warframe is maybe because of rell

i suspect we didn't free rell from harrow in the chains of harrow instead it was wally and the reason the watchers tower was destroyed is because wally took revenge on rell that lived in duviri

[lean garden]

Wuh?

[turbid vigil]

"rell" sounds awefully aggressive at the end of the quest

[lean garden]

It was very clear that we freed rell's soul but also took the burden of handling wally, as such wally becomes more free to act

[turbid vigil]

and duviri before chains of harrow has the watchers tower

[lean garden]

well duh that was wally

but we did free rell's soul

[turbid vigil]

so we freed wally

[lean garden]

brother you are not remembering it right

[strange plinth]

we freed both technically

[lean garden]

You literally have rell's soul appear at the end of that sequence

[turbid vigil]

if rell sounds suspiciously agressive aka Wally then we freed wally

[lean garden]

rell's soul literally asks who will handle wally at the end

[turbid vigil]

rell basically escaped harrow just before locking harrow trapping wally in it and then rell escaped to duviri under a new name

[lean garden]

no

[strange plinth]

rell bound himself to harrow, allowing his consciousness to keep fighting off wally while his physical body had long decayed iirc

[turbid vigil]

then why does the watchers tower go away when we complete chains of harrow

[lean garden]

Palladino: "By sacred shadow and righteous blood – blessed Rell! Your aged vessel is dust and your chains are broken. Be free!"

Rell will be visible as a faint outline, standing at the base of the tree.

Rell: "Mmm. But the Man in the Wall. Who will…?"

Palladino: "They will have to. All of them. They owe you this. We all do."

[strange plinth]

the rain of chains is connected to chains of harrow, not necessarily the watcher's island

[turbid vigil]

the watchers island has the person I forgot the name of but that's rell

[lean garden]

...

again, rell appears at the end of the quest

[strange plinth]

garmi, mathila's husband?
our only real detail on him is that he kept the lighthouse and felt he was keeping "it" at bay
and yeah, what Bau's saying

[turbid vigil]

yes garmi

[graceful swan]

Nothing suggests Garmi is Rell

Garmi is literally a book character

[strange plinth]

true, i forget duviri's a book

[graceful swan]

Smh everyone forgetting source material these days

This is why the books matter

[turbid vigil]

yet Albrecht traveled to duviri as the scholar

[strange plinth]

but he did not take the place of an existing character
the scholar of scholar's landing refers to albrecht and albrecht only

[graceful swan]

And Rell was dead at this point

Rell wouldn’t have even went to Duviri as he was busy holding down Wally

Assuming all that didn’t kill him not much is left of Drifters timeline

[strange plinth]

heavily implied that duviri is all that's left of drifter's timeline, right?

[graceful swan]

And the Zariman

[karmic marten]

About stalker child
Is this child a 100% frame without having a host, like umbra basically?

[strange turtle]

Yes

[strange plinth]

not sure what the umbra comparison is about
unless you mean no tenno controller, but that also applies to stalker and jade (among a few others)

[strange turtle]

Oh god I just realised this poor child probably has a connection to the hivemind from day one

[strange plinth]

if the warframes are properly connected to the hive, yeah

[karmic marten]

No tenno control and no experiment, like it got the power naturally

[graceful swan]

All Warframes are connected but to different degrees

Infested madness isn’t a thing for nothing

[karmic marten]

So depending on the writing team and Pablo creativity, Orion/Sirius could age way faster and maybe even become a playable frame?

[strange plinth]

this has probably been brought up before-
the baby would probably have a mildly filtered version of the jade strain, no?
wonder how that's gonna go

[lean garden]

Weeeeelllllll

[graceful swan]

Jade isn’t a strain

[strange plinth]

strain as in,, the model of warframe, batch, ig

[graceful swan]

Batch is the frame type

Helminth is the strain they all are

[strange plinth]

was using the wrong term
batch is what i meant then

[karmic marten]

Still wondering will more Warframe come that aren't created by ballas

[strange plinth]

Qorvex was made by albrecht
Xaku Prime is more than likely albrecht as well
Temple's 50/50, since ballas designed them but albrecht actually made them

[strange turtle]

Probably

[graceful swan]

Well we have been getting more and more frames that weren’t made by Ballas

[karmic marten]

So it's not that unlikely if oraxia also isn't created from ballas

[graceful swan]

Tbh it was never actually stated Ballas made every single frame just he was the main person in charge of the project

[strange turtle]

Not too many hopefully, I’d still like to see some new frames with “normal” origins, but those do make up most of the roster so I wouldn’t be surprised if we continue getting more non-standard ones

[karmic marten]

Ohhhh missed that part, yeah there are definitely loads of frames making ballas wasn't aware of

[strange plinth]

titania was ballas-made right?
all i can remember is the archimedian going to earth w/ somatics, which would imply titania was already there

[graceful swan]

Titania was made by Silvana

Ballas was probably still in control though

[lean garden]

she was the one who was commanded to build titania, but given that she was part of the warframe project, the keyword build becomes important

build and not design

[karmic marten]

Still wondering will hildryn stay as ballas favorite or will another frame comes that ballas favor more

[misty helm]

Man... I finally played the Duviri Paradox after returning from a long hiatus and hell if it even makes sense

Are you suppossed to play the open world first?

[lean garden]

imo Duviri should only be broached after TNW

[misty helm]

Yeah, I mean, I stopped playing WF a while after AoZ, so I kinda get where the continuity may be

I got some concepts from Duviri, but what I didn't get was why Bombastine and the others act like you're suppossed to know them.

80% of the time I felt like I was losing some other content

[graceful swan]

After 1000 years Bombastine not knowing you would be odd

[strange turtle]

Because the Drifter does know them, it’s just like when you start a game and the character already knows people instead of the relationship starting when you start playing

[misty helm]

I can understand that, as Bombastine at least introduces himself. Can't sat that about the ones like Mathila

Like, suddenly you have this chick speaking to you during the adventure and not so much exposition as to why are you even working with them in the first place.

In contrast with stuff like Fortuna o Cetus. That's why I was wondering if you're suppossed to play the open world first, given that it seems to shed more light into Duviri than the adventure itself

Or maybe it's a mix of both; play Duviri intro, then open world, then following the rest of the adventure

[tall echo]

I don't think you can play duviri before the quest

[tall echo]

Point still stands, drifter has been there for a long time

[sharp acorn]

Yeah wasn't it said that he lived with Dominus Thrax for a long time before he started to "think outside the box" and become an "improviser" which Thrax didn't like which started his whole Diavolo style infinite death loop

[misty helm]

Was that said during the adventure? Can't remember

[sharp acorn]

I believe it was said during 1999 when the protoframes are harassing you with questions about duviri

[tall echo]

It's revealed during the quest that drifter created duviri

[silk atlas]

Unintentionally, to elaborate

[woven coyote]

Btw jade did have an operator, but she lulled her operator to sleep and pretended to be under control

[misty helm]

Yeah, that I get it. Like the whole Thrax being a projection of sorts from our operator's emotions and something like that. But can't recall anywhere on TDP, something being mentioned about him as a separate entity that we lived with.

So far the only '1999' content I have played are the small fragment with Arthur on Whispers in the Walls and The Hex, but I have not yet played the "open" scenarios on neither Duviri nor 1999

[silk atlas]

Everyone in Duviri minus Drifter and Teshin are all characters from a children's storybook. That's the entire premise.

[misty helm]

I know that you get some exposition from the open world of Duviri tho

[tall echo]

There is no 1999 in duviri

Ah wait no

Reading comprehension is struggling

[misty helm]

NP 😆

[tall echo]

Nah all the major lore is in the quests

[misty helm]

Tbh part of me was hoping Thrax was just another zariman kid that got lost, another Tenno.

[tall echo]

The other kids were saved, only drifter remained

[misty helm]

Yeah.
Though, given the drifter is like an alternate version of our operator, could it be that our operator's childhood was different? I mean, in the sense that the drifter flashbacks point at how he was sort of a weird-loner kind of kid?

Or does that apply to our operator too

[tall echo]

They're the same up to the deal with wally

[misty helm]

Curiously, in the fragment where we are at the zariman and we confort the other kids, we don't seem like that kind of jealous and resentful person

[tall echo]

Uh. Correct?

[woven coyote]

Remember courtiers personalities arent based on drifter but on the book characters

[tall echo]

Same with thrax

[sharp acorn]

Yeah our emotions just brought the story to life

[misty helm]

I mean the flashbacks we get when the drifter picks the little doll-thing pieces

[woven coyote]

I'd say those are at the average level for children

Late childhood/pre teens usually dont have the greatest emotional control, which is also what brought about the whole situation

[misty helm]

Yeah, you're right. Probably I'm just reading too much into it.

[stiff fable]

I mean, you're not. You're just a kid, and kids get jealous sometimes. Envy is even healthy when it pushes you to self-improvement.

[proper barn]

I mean they are still all kids.

[humble sierra]

Also Kullervo and his island, he crashed into Duviri and manifested the prison for himself, as well as the Warden (which is based on Ballas).

I think Dante rocked up one time too, and the Paragrimms are his, and he might have created the Archarbor puzzle? Idk, you can hear Drusus Leverian there too

[hexed oxide]

"may i explore that void kingdom based on your daughter's fairy tale ?" -probably dante asking albrecht to let him do it

[restive river]

Wdym hear drusus leverian?

If anything the paragrims are due to him messing with that book btw

Also the archabor is Acrithis’
So
She likely made that and the puzzles-

At most I can see her and him hanging out at some point but I doubt Dante made anything in Duviri

Also like
Dante disappeared before Duviri existed
I don’t think he had the voidtongue spells he has now prior to his lab excursion

Also his spells are utilizing voidtongue
If anything I can see the paragrims being summoned through that because they exist within Duviri

[humble sierra]

You can hear Drusus in the main puzzle beneath Archarbor

Approaching the Paragrimm in the middle has his voice greet you

I think he says something if you read the plaques too

[restive river]

What?

I have
Literally never heard that ever and I used to do the archabor all the time

Can you source it?

[woven coyote]

technically impossible for dante to disappear before duviri

zariman happened first so duviri happened first

[restive river]

OH yeah right lol

I got my wires crossed in my head

Dealin’ with constant achey pain will do that :]

[woven coyote]

that it will

[restive river]

I do think his paragrims are a result of the voidtongue book summoning them from Duviri tho
Not the other way around

[woven coyote]

makes sense to me

[restive river]

So that’s actually further evidence since Duviri predated Dante
Tho ofc things can change Duviri but. Not really subtle changes like some new birds?

Like Dante doesn’t seem like the tortured internally type, emotionally he sounded very calm

If he ever made it to Duviri I can see him just
Chillin’, being buddies with Acrithis, gabbing about anything and everything

[woven coyote]

we could actually look to see if there are differences between the paragrims too

[restive river]

Well he’d be writing it but y’know what I mean

[woven coyote]

both can be seen as decorations

[restive river]

Main one is one is made purely of energy and the other is a living breathing being

But both are made of void energy
But iirc Dante’s uh. Do not have legs

Would be interesting if the beak or hear shape differed enough that we could consider them “different species”

[humble sierra]

Okay it seems to have been a bug, can't find anything on the Wiki that suggests it's intentional

But I'm not tripping I swear I could hear him

[restive river]

I think you may be tripping my friend

[humble sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/gioated-family-guy-peter-griffin-crazy-straightjacket-gif-20619219

[restive river]

But now that you’ve said this I want Drusus, Acrithis and Dante to have a lunch together where they talk about stuff

Heck add in Yonta too…
Suda…
All the knowledge lovers!

Not Simaris though

[humble sierra]

And then Simaris shows up and eradicates them

KNOWLEDGE MUST BE EARNED

[restive river]

I hate that living d-pad

[humble sierra]

Also with the new Scaldra Glyph that Baro sells being 93 ducats, does that mean Scaldra established in '93?

Wait lol nevermind it's worth 1906 credits too

so 1999 in total

[restive river]

I like the potential theory that scaldra started in 1906 but uh. 🤷‍♀️

It’s pretty baseless

[woven coyote]

"all of this knowledge in a single place.......HUNTER!!! time to perform synthesis!!!!"

[normal mountain]

Funny as that is, maybe Simaris won't do that
Since Suda is in the mix, anything she learns will live on with her

also Drusus, legit forgot he's a Cephalon too

[strange turtle]

Could this be first step in the secret Isleweaver ARG? Wally going beyond the 4th wall and manipulating the players themselves

[humble sierra]

Imma end up like Sythel

WHY ARE YOUR EYES LIKE THAT

[tall echo]

There's also the fact that he likes suda

[vague elbow]

How long are whips in WF exactly?

[old dome]

?????
as long & as short as the ones irl...

[vague elbow]

I'm just tryna think how much destruction it would cause irl

Just imagine Nira's whip in the wrong hands

[tall echo]

That's not specific

[tall echo]

Look at the unmodded melee range

Varies depending on the whip just like irl

[old dome]

literally what i said but worded differently

[tall echo]

No

That is an elaboration. You just gave a terrible attempt at an explanation

[old dome]

sure sure whatever makes you feel superior semantically

[tall echo]

Ok tell me what clearer:
"Long and short like irl"
"Here's how to find out, can be different like irl"

[misty helm]

I guess that, if you take gameplay characteristics like weapon stats as just an element solely limited to game balancing; you may end up with some potentially crazy numbers, given the technology level of most of the stuff

[old dome]

youre pressed over semantics...

[tall echo]

I'm pressed over the fact that you think you actually explained anything
But this isn't the point of this channel

[stray gale]

pressed over pragmatics actually lol

notice how they had to ask again because your answer didn't have any useful information 🤔

[old dome]

to-may-to to-mah-to

also the person who asked the original question didnt ask again so...

they just explained why they asked.

[restive river]

You didn’t really give any explanation, just said “it varies” which while technically true doesn’t give much of an answer cause. That’s obvious
Whereas Scrap provided a way to actually find a probable answer using in-game sources.

[graceful swan]

Do you know how much that narrows it down? moment

[dark kiln]

crying because Nightwave no longer offers incremental lore expansion like with Wolf of Saturn Six and Glassmaker

[astral sparrow]

I miss when he would just randomly spawn

Wish he could do that still but only on steel path

[old dome]

yeah i miss those... i get why they got discontinued but. comics would be nice for worldbuilding.

[dark kiln]

My Unairu dedicant build would finally shine for once, lmao

[wheat oak]

Alright, I'm after 3rd rewrite of my question and I think I'm finally able to ask about what I want to ask xD

In community there's that theory of 3 different generations of Warframes, 1st being "bio-drones under our command" as Ballas stated in Vitruvian, a failed attempt that resulted in thinking, self sustaining Warframes that they were trying to torture and mindbreak into submission and were going feral after some time anyway (with few exceptions), 2nd being Warframes that (to my understanding) were humans just as gen 1 but modified to have as little mind as possible so only Tenno would make them move and 3rd being just a 3d prints we currently make in our ship.

My question is: did I understood specifically gen 2 correctly or were there any more differences between gen 2 and 1 beside state of their mind?

'Cause I'm trying to write about every known gen 1 frame we heard about on forum and I had crisis after focusing on dillema: if gen 2 is empty headed (even considering they might keep some of their consciousness) then why comforting them, "taking away their pain" is so important? In broader light it would require not erasing their minds but rather rethinking how Tenno powers affect Warframes' broken by Orokin (but still fuctioning) mind and that rubbers line between gen 1 and 2 severly. On the other hand it has to be a difference 'cause we all know how our first linking with Umbra and Arthur ended. Warframes throwing Tenno out of themselves surely would be uncacceptable by Orokin. So overall I'm having trouble to find that fine line where gen 1 is ending and gen 2 beginning in terms of Warframes' state of mind.

[proper barn]

probably. Well okay the ones we are copying are gen2 or (even 1) just the foundry can make them perfect copies. but every warframe was at one point a human. Umbra a very late warframe seeminlgy during the end of the old war Was also senteint but that was Part of his like "punishment". Kullervo is the earliest warframe we know of cuz he saw all the other Gen 1 warframes get murdered by the orokin. I don't think gen 1 went mad it's probably they just weren't as subservient as the orokin wanted.

Seemingly gen 2 (and probably parts of gen 1) where just intergrated into being controlled by the tenno.

@wheat oak we also don't know how many generations their where. people mainly go "gen 1 the ones that went crazy/rebelled then all the other generations".

cuz that is all we know really.

but like i said any person could at any time be made into a warframe and be sentient if the orokin where feeling froggy about it. or at least ballas could Umbra was made FAR into the old war after the tenno where around and normalized.

[old dome]

re: that fine line... i think its a safe assumption to say that line began when the tenno came back from the zariman & the discovery of their powers was found by the orokin scientists—as seen in rhino prime's lore.

[proper barn]

we don't know

if the tenno came back during it or if the orokin just started using them

we don't know for sure.

[old dome]

yes, but we can theorize in this case.

[proper barn]

yeah i just wanna be clear

what is a theory and what we think is true probably and what like we know for sure.

[old dome]

-# cons of stream of consciousness narratives...

[proper barn]

what kullervo says is he sees the re-appearance of the childern of the zariman which can either mean he saw them like being used in war or he say the zariman reappear but we don't know.

[wheat oak]

that "going mag" part I mainly take from 1999, as Entrati and Kim conversations are telling us they'd turn into full fledged Warframes eventually (with Flare confirming that in message before their comet nap xD), I could however misinterpret it and gen 1s were so bloodlusty simply cause Orokin forced them to change into Warframes (reasonably 😅 )

[proper barn]

either way he went to help them/warn them about the orokin and how bad they where.

[wheat oak]

so overall... we don't really have a sure answer

[proper barn]

oh to add to this umbra is gen 2 or even 3 if you want. Just how we get umbra to work with us is how we get any warframe to work with us. Arthur and the team just have memeories and willpower and stuff that they can fight us like umbra can but the same way we get umbra to let us controll him we form a relationship with the hex to let them let us control them.

all warframes that aren't the protos or umbra have no memories

Umbra had memeories but also was alive in the moon for 1000 years.

Umbra doesn't get out of the moon until we take it out of the void.

i feel like people don't always understand this. he only gets out after the second dream.

he goes to the ruins of his house.

[wheat oak]

yes yes, that much I know 😆

[old dome]

...that place on earth (????) was his house???

[proper barn]

yeah it's been 1000 years it's the same tree

[lilac aspen]

Jade has memories though
And Stalker

[proper barn]

it's the same like courtyard.

[proper barn]

sure. idk if jade does or just emotions.

[lilac aspen]

It’s why Stalker hates us and why Jade saved him later when the Orokin’s fell

[proper barn]

Stalker hates us cuz he can't hate ballas cuz ballas is orokin.

so he hates us instead. but his whole problem is cuz of the orokin and their dumb rules.

[wheat oak]

Also about Umbra I think it's a bit more tricky cause sure he isn't gen 1, but I think he was made in gen 1's image. So I wouldn't really put him into gen 2 either

[old dome]

i think she has her whole or most of her mind still intact... she did remember everything of before AND after her transformation.

[proper barn]

He was one of the last frames made.

cuz he is after Ballas was working with hunhow to give him the tennos weakness.

[old dome]

i never made that connection,, man.jpg

[proper barn]

Like that's why ballas is putting him in the contraption cuz Umbra wants to stop him from giving hunhow the space ipad we found.

[lilac aspen]

Ballas tried to assassinate him with explosion
It failed
Ballas had a light bulb go off then

[proper barn]

like the Thing we find in the cell is what umbra found as a person.

[lilac aspen]

Then we get Umbra

[proper barn]

no. that's not what we know.

It doesn't say that anywhere.

[wheat oak]

yes yes, but I don't mean chronology. I rather categorize generations by how were they working. And Umbra, while created very late, was self moving and thinking just as gen 1

[proper barn]

Well ballas did that on purpose as a punishment.

also umbra has been alive for over 1000k years with the memory of him killing his kid

so he's really really mad.

[old dome]

& really, really full of grief. its a terrifying combination in a parent.

[proper barn]

yeah. he didn't even remeber any else about his life

just "hey look at your son kill him"

[wheat oak]

honestly I figured that bit quite late, pretty fkin sad :/

[lilac aspen]

Being a Warframe sucks
Despite the awesome powers it gives

[old dome]

(unless youre mirage...)

sorry for that weird tangent,, i did her quest recently & i still cant get over how absolutely unhinged she is...

[proper barn]

mirage is funny.

[lilac aspen]

She is the funny one

[proper barn]

Cuz She was the only warfarme we know of

that while being changed into a warframe gaslit ballas.

like that's her prime trailer just ballas going "oh you choose what you wanted to be"

some people can't stop girlbossin.

[wheat oak]

Honestly I prefer Revenant, a frame that keeps Ballas at night thinking how the hell there's Prime of him xD

https://tenor.com/view/sheldon-cooper-bbt-sleep-i-dont-need-sleep-gif-5115394

[old dome]

also her facing multiple sentients all at once & knew full well that lotus was lying in effort to comfort her... and she just didnt hate lotus for it. absolutely a chad.

[lilac aspen]

Mirage: “I died laughing to the sentients.”
Gara: “I sacrificed myself to stop the sentients.”
Titania: “I saved the forests.”

Limbo: “I miscalculated”

[proper barn]

yeah.

[old dome]

ok sorry back to the generations of warframe

[proper barn]

"21"

lmao

[lilac aspen]

Limbo Protoframe just being told by Entrati to not try to overdo the math

“You can rend the space-time at will but you WILL most likely die.”

[lilac aspen]

Gen 1 were like
People turned into the super soldier infested soldiers that inevitably went insane, yeah?

[wheat oak]

pretty much yes

the ones before the Tenno

[plush phoenix]

they ate people and stuff

[wheat oak]

wait, I might be going into pure mad speculations, but what if gen 2s were mind broken in such a way to still partially be there, but just couldn't interact with their bodies? That would make "and take away it's pain" quote have more sense in terms of later generations that were made purely for operator. So as Umbra or Arthur that are self sustaining can just kick us out of their heads, gen 2's mind could just be constantly in passengers seat, not being able to do anything else than holding the brakes until we use our tenno powers on them and give them some sympathy. I know it conflicts with the idea later warframes should have little to none consciousness, but for the sake of theorizing...

[proper barn]

we DON'T Know.

I don't beleive the orokin when they said they went mad.

i just think they didn't listen enough.

also they had no memories or anything the only thing that changed was just the tenno where added to the picture.

that's it.

[lilac aspen]

If go by what our new favorite guitars says. The infested don’t exactly make them mad.

Which can imply that they probably went mad from the Orokin’s early attempts at “control”, before the Tenno came around. Remember, the Orokin love control, the Dax are a good example.

We all know the Orokin can’t admit wrongdoing

“They went mad”
Looks in box
“We drugged them, tortured them, etc.”

Gee I wonder why they went mad, Ballas.

[glacial bough]

To be frank, that was after the fact.

[proper barn]

i still think rebelled not went mad.

but anyway. also in the umbra thing he says they where a failure and couldn't be controlled until the tenno came.

the tennos super power is empathy.

[glacial bough]

There is some elemental of them being unstable by as is

[lilac aspen]

Yeah
They went through hell just like the warframes

[glacial bough]

Like, the baseline marker for any kind of coherence in gen 1 frames is a manic level of obsession/focus

[restive river]

High emotions go brrrr

I still like the idea that gen 1 frames that retain sapience do so because of their high emotions interacting with the void energy within them, stopping the infestation from fully taking over their mind

[stray herald]

What is this room? When i got here, lotus talked about tuvul and the zariman

[wheat oak]

if I'm not mistaken that's the room where Voruna killed executor Tuvul and linked herself to her puppers during Orokin Collapse

[tall echo]

Check out voruna's leverian

[astral sparrow]

It's just a lore room for varuna and was a soft teaser for dirviry

The heads will glow red if you bring her in there

[stray herald]

Oh?

[past halo]

Okay I had this thought for a while, what Warframe batch would the On-Lyne boys take if they met up with Albrecht

[strong viper]

Does Oberon have any lore behind him? Besides being named after a nature god.

[silk atlas]

No lol

[lilac aspen]

Sad days that not all primes got their cool trailers of Ballas talking

[hexed oxide]

what place is this ?

is that on yuvarium ?

[stray herald]

Yea lua survival

[hexed oxide]

what's up with drusus ?

he seems to be the only sane cephalon

[strange plinth]

recently cephalon'd, for one
i think at least?
not sure if drusus was a cephalon prior but iirc he did sell his body to parvos for debt stuff

[humble sierra]

I think a Cephalon's sanity is more dependent on how they were when alive

Cy is also pretty normal, just a bit depressed.

[proper barn]

Not body

The museum.

[stray herald]

The levarium

[strange plinth]

was the body not part of a trade too?
i might be completely misremembering that
obv the museum was the main thing yeah

[stray herald]

Thats why in dante’s hes all sad about it bc he essentially sold his life to parvos

[proper barn]

Well PTSD. Not depression. I still think he was stopped from doing too well against the Sentient invasion force by someone so the old war continued to go on. But that's just theory stuff.

[thin canopy]

Suda also seems... cogent, to say the least. Ordis seems an anomaly, likely because of the constant personality purging

[thin canopy]

I always figured he wasn't a Cephalon, but was hiding his identity, similar to Nora, so that people couldn't get to him for his strange connections to the warframes

But perhaps that was purely conjecture on my part

[hexed oxide]

yeah, he hinted at having a condition not permitting him visit a place, i think it's on styanax's or gauss' leverian

[restive river]

Listen to Voruna’s leverian

[restive river]

Suda:

[hexed oxide]

idk, she sounds a bit obsessed with knowledge, not as much as simaris though

[strange plinth]

looked it up after remembering this
when donating 1 million credits, he makes a brief comment
"Ahh... with that... I could buy my bod-"
not necessarily parvos, and also not necessarily recent, but it was sold at some point

[hexed oxide]

huh, remind me in case im wrong, but don't you (or whoever's in charge) just get rid of the physical body when you are turned into a cephalon ?

or is that just an old school orokin thing ?

[strange plinth]

most of the time yeah, i think
nora was able to get hers back after getting glassed by nihil, though

[hexed oxide]

amir's chats also make it seem like a point of no return

[hexed oxide]

but she was "just" glassed, not turned into an actual cephalon

[strange plinth]

yeah
the other anomaly is loid/necraloid, but its implied that necraloid was a clone i think?

[hexed oxide]

this is on the wiki

so albrecht turned the clone into a cephalon and kept the original, lol

[karmic prism]

I NEED MORE CEPHALON LORE AND CEPHALONS IN GENERAL

[proper barn]

Amir coded Post.

have you played 1999? @karmic prism

[tall echo]

Every cephalon besides jordas and melica is sane

[humble sierra]

Ordis, Loid/Otak, maybe Simaris, Suda seems to be experiencing some form of memory loss

For some of them they were crazy beforehand though

Melica's also probably just super corrupted

[strange plinth]

at least we have Sark

[karmic prism]

Yes

[tall echo]

Which is not insanity

[sage stratus]

Cy does believe he failed is crew so it is kinda understandable why he is depressed

[sage stratus]

Wait, this is what mobile warframe looks like!?

[stray herald]

yes

it's cluttered as hell

but its my clutter

[astral sparrow]

Ok want to know. What is the actual in cannon lore behind clem as I know his irl story.

It's all so hard to read that text on mobile that image is so crunchy

[lean garden]

Klem grakata

[tall echo]

None known beyond defective loyalty gene and... other defects

[terse vector]

Can someone Explain to me the lore behind
The second dream
The war within

[graceful swan]

Second Dream
You are being hunted by Stalker
The real you wakes up
Stalker tries to kill you still

The War Within
Grineer Queens try to steal your body you awaken your true powers and kill one of them

[restive river]

or let her rot depending on your choice
But
She dead

[woven coyote]

or let teshin kill her

[restive river]

Ye

Either way she dead

Another Orokin in the dumpster

[graceful swan]

Letting her rot still kills her

[restive river]

Ye

[celest pine]

I gently nudged a friend into letting Teshin kill the Elder Queen, just like I did. He deserves to do it twice.

[strange plinth]

i wonder what the total split is on that decision

[old dome]

i just let her rot

a slow death is more painful than teshin's swift one...

[strange plinth]

teshin didn't die?
at least not permanently

[old dome]

oh no!! i meant him killing her

itd have been too swift

[strange plinth]

oh !
i see

tbh i don't remember the choice i made there

[tall echo]

There was the risk of her just continuitying if left alive, but voruna confirmed that she always dies

[proper barn]

well

it says like in the best circumstances it can be 100% relibale

[stiff fable]

We never destroyed her oro, is the problem. Meanwhile Voruna presumably did destroy Tuvul's.

[swift sentinel]

DE are probably going to leave the Elder Queen dead unless they can think of something interesting that only she can do

[lilac aspen]

She’s dead but considering how weird Orokins and all that jazz are I don’t think she’s dead dead

But out of the picture dead unless DE decides to bring her back for some situation.

Since the younger sister keeps gathering Kuva (Granted she could just be gathering it for herself)

Unlike Ballas
Who had his run and got soul-sucked

[celest pine]

https://tenor.com/view/nothing-of-value-was-lost-the-critic-fire-burn-it-with-fire-and-nothing-of-value-was-lost-gif-14671074

[lilac aspen]

False
Ballas makes me laugh everytime he gets killed

Thus value

[karmic marten]

Did ballas kinda made a very clear statement hildryn is his favorite frame or would it be weird if in a future prime trailer ballas would say it again spare this frame too?

[restive river]

She was spared because she was there to protect him, the only favoritism here is due to her being needed for his survival

She’s the shield

[karmic marten]

Oh wow, so ballas would probably never again saying
Spare this frame

[restive river]

Not unless they helped further his own direct interests

Though this does beg a good question
Which was his “favorite”?
Iirc Khora and one other who I am forgetting were made as a sort of representation or memorial of Margulis

[proper barn]

Hildyrn isn't his favorite she is just his personal guard.

I would expect Khora to be his favorite

Cuz she was made in the image of Margulis.

[lean garden]

Not exactly

None of them truly understands how much I lost, when I lost her. Nor by what subtle art my dead love now lives, within another's gleaming skull.
So tonight, we shall celebrate. In her honor, and mine, I shall unveil a new creation, a harmony of mistress... and monster.

An apex predator, a deathless companion. Unsurpassed. Blood-raw in whip, claw and fang. Khora.

It don't suggest at all that Khora was made in margulis's image

its made in her honour (and ballas's)

[old dome]

""her honor"" & ballas'

bc that man also went ahead & made saryn ""for margulis"" since she loved earth so much......... 🔪🔪🔪🔪

de let us kill this man again.

[karmic marten]

50/50 on upcoming islewave event ending
Somehow somehow ballas Returned

[tranquil mica]

Help I don't find Eleanor in operation basement. I walk or press Q but she is nowhere.

[strange turtle]

Saryn?

Margulis… from your winter ashes, there has sprung a field of flowers. Conceived by me, germinated for deadly purpose.

You used to dream of old Earth, didn't you? Bathed in gold and solemn blue. I intend to reclaim it now, from the spores and the ruin. It came to me, like a proverb: fight poison with… poison.

[strange plinth]

wisp as well iirc?

[raven urchin]

The guy trully was obsessed

Margulis be like

https://tenor.com/view/mariah-carey-why-are-you-so-obsessed-with-me-singing-gif-10148325

[humble sierra]

Tbf Ballas is already in Duviri, at least an idea of him

[hexed oxide]

that ballas is probably worse than real ballas

imagine duviri ballas is how kullervo saw or remembered him

[lilac aspen]

In another timeline Ballas instead becomes a good guy after the death of Margulis

Realizing she was executed for not wanting to, reasonably so, kill a bunch children. And decides to betray the Orokins and protect the kids.

Alas we get Ballas wanting to betray the Orokin and kill the void children too while still remaining very Orokin.

If they weren’t Orokin maybe that could of been the outcome
But, y’know, godly mentality, arrogance, and all that jazz

[tall echo]

Problem is that margulis doesn't die unless ballas says she has to

No judgement can be carried out without all of the seven agreeing on it

[swift sentinel]

Ballas would rather kill his love than share her in any way

and then punishes literally everyone else for his own failings

[mystic anvil]

hey wondering if anyone could explain who the man in the wall is

[feral cape]

Evil void entity

[graceful swan]

How far in the story are you?

[mystic anvil]

i am on the man in the wall story

in deimos

just got a taste of 1999 which was fun

[graceful swan]

Man in the Wall is the kid with glowing eyes who says hey, kiddo

The person you made a deal with in TNW

And the person who showed up at the end as a Man in a Wall

[mystic anvil]

is he like super strong dude

like could i kill him or would i get mauled

[graceful swan]

Hard to tell

Wally is meant to be a mysterious character

Wally gave you a piece of his power

So has much more Void energy than you

[mystic anvil]

ahh makes sense well then im off to finish this story

[lilac aspen]

I don’t even think he is killable
Just able to be repelled

[tall echo]

Eldritch god, currently

[graceful swan]

The god part isn't confirmed

[restive river]

I was thinking it was her but couldn’t remember exactly, thank you

[velvet cradle]

Eldritch? Maybe

God? Less so

He is more of like a powerful entity of the void.

We are not aware of the full extent or specifics of his powers or what his durability and such is as we haven't seen him sustain any damage and more

[restive river]

Eldritch? Definitely?
God? Just as much as the Orokin (so not)

[restive river]

We have seen him sustain damage actually
He’s missing a finger :)

Ofc he is still connected to and can communicate through that finger

But that “damage” does appear to persist in his chosen form

Or
Perceived form, it’s weird
Albrecht called him man in the wall, that stuck enough as a descriptor that Rell and others would see him as such which by being known as that likely only strengthened that form being the one he would take

We have also seen love. Not really damage him but it does something to him
It cut his strand of khra in whispers which booted him for example and Albrecht specifically wanted the Drifter to learn to love the Hex for fighting Wally

[velvet cradle]

Oh right! The requrary drive or what ever in the railjack or somewhere that is used for void jumps?

But if it is true that he is still connected to it, it may be an issue if you chopped him up and scatter him to the stars as he may have no physical form but he still clearly doesn't need it much as he has shown to have mental influences from what I remember

And I heard Albrecht also call him the indifference first which the human loid and the Cavia use that term

[velvet cradle]

I need to kick my butt to get the hex finale done

[tall echo]

No eldritch god is an actual god

[graceful swan]

Gods are overrated

[restive river]

There’s also multiple fingers somehow
Oh and in terms of names he has many more
The lidless eye
The smiling one
I do think all perceptions of him, how is he known essentially is what potentially causes him to reflect and be that

[restive river]

Aren’t eldritch gods typically seen as like
Above the normal gods too

Which in this sense of the Orokin being seen as gods and now Wally being seen as a god he does fit as an eldritch god in this false pantheon of gods
Cause
Bro is not a god

[sly ibex]

The other fingers were cloned.

[restive river]

Can you source that? Cause I’ve heard that but never seen a source

Cause
I really doubt the Orokin figured out how to clone Wally, technically not impossible but

[normal mountain]

Iirc, they didn't
Someone somewhere (think on the Zariman) makes a comment about keeping the relic locked up so it doesn't go around making more relics

[sly ibex]

During the Angels of the Zariman quest, Cavalero asks how many 'big finger-relics are out there', to which Archimedean Yonta responds by saying "Fewer than there used to be. So long as the originals are safely sealed away of course."

[restive river]

I know there are multiples, that doesn’t mean they were cloned.

[sly ibex]

Not by the Orokin, necessarily. The statement seems to suggest they clone themselves.

[restive river]

Iirc Albrecht even mentions fingers in the requiem notes

[sly ibex]

Because The Man in the Wall lost more than 1 when the portal closed.

[restive river]

I think that’s where the confusion is sparked then cause
I am very aware there are multiple, it’s just never said how

And ofc there’s some difference between the copies and the original

[restive river]

He both lost 1 and multiple

[strange plinth]

one was cut but multiple fell

[sly ibex]

Ahh, is that what it was?

[normal mountain]

perhaps there might be a universe out there that never got some fingers?

[sly ibex]

I find it odd if only one finger was cut off, considering his hand was outstretched and at least his fingers were through the portal.

[strange plinth]

i could be misremembering again
but i feel like it was one cut splitting into a lot as they fell

but i'm also not sure where that info would be if it wasn't in the requiem stuff

[silk atlas]

🤷

[lean garden]

Says digits but only shows 1 finger cut off

[strange plinth]

was about to post that as well
vague in what exactly was cut but definitely multiple digits on the floor
main thing pointing to only one is the missing finger on the man in the wall statue.. thing at the end of new war and the vagabond's missing finger

[graceful swan]

Well
Wally has been playing finger hunt

[strange plinth]

huh. true.
i guess i'd always assumed he's been unsuccessful so far, chasing after the "one" that's missing
possible that he's recovered some

[restive river]

If I had to guess the original works like Wally while the copies work like the Murmur
Still a part of him, but recovering the copies doesn’t really do much for him. He requires the original.

Also, doubt he has recovered any copies

[graceful swan]

Originals

[restive river]

There’s one original and multiple copies iirc

[graceful swan]

Yonta says originals

Not original

How I see it is

Originals that Albrecht caused to be cut off Wally probably got some back of

Copies from them

[restive river]

Finger lore when DE

[strange plinth]

that's certainly a sentence

[heavy dagger]

Ballas was not loved when he was a child

[karmic marten]

Not sure anymore, About the 4 proto frame entering the mall, where temple just jumped in, was there a story cutscenes or story interaction like intruder alert?

[lean garden]

nope

thats how they arrive\

[karmic marten]

Oh wow, missed the opportunity doing some interaction

[worn crescent]

Wait, isn’t wally kinda just a physical incarnation of entropy?

[old dome]

???

how so??

[restive river]

Drifter: I understand entropy. Maybe the Great Indifference is the same thing. Maybe it wins in the end. I don't know. What I do know is that I’m not going to let it win NOW. (EleanorRank3Convo2

It’s akin to it ig but idk if it is entropy

[raven urchin]

That trailer should be inside the game, coming by mail if needed

[restive river]

Agreed

[raven urchin]

Wallbro is a god

[restive river]

He isn’t lol

[raven urchin]

He is though

[restive river]

He isn’t though

[raven urchin]

Oh well, he is ye

[restive river]

It’s a powerful entity, yes but he is not a god

[raven urchin]

To which, what is a god than?

[restive river]

He can be called one
Doesn’t make him one
Same as the Orokin.

[restive river]

That’s the thing
It’s subjective
:p

[raven urchin]

Well, Vor would like to disagree

[restive river]

I don’t think he’s called him a god
And
Vor’s dead and insane :p

[raven urchin]

[restive river]

Since when were we taking his word as fact lol

[raven urchin]

Vor's not dead he is alive as much as he is dead, as death is inexistent in face of the void

[restive river]

He is undead, “alive” thanks to the void

[raven urchin]

Aren't we all undead than? Alive thanks to energy and air?

By energy, I mean the mix of water, food, vitamins (sun light) etc...

[proper barn]

He's pretty dead

He got reanimated though.

[restive river]

Hence
Undead

[restive river]

Undead implies once alive and brought back to life
We are not things that we alive and were brought back to life
We are dead things that became alive things

[proper barn]

Wait

Do you mean us as people or in the game?

Cuz in the game I could say the tenno might be undead but shhhhh

[tepid goblet]

Wally is in fact a god

He's created life

Life that considers him their master

Like followers of a god

[silk atlas]

Me when I'm in a making things up competition

[restive river]

The Murmur are literally a part of him, not new life

[tepid goblet]

What did I make up lmao Wally created the murmur and they call him master

Why would they call him master if they're a part of him

[restive river]

He made them but they’re still part of him

Also like
How did he make them? Cause if it’s conceptual embodiment then he didn’t make them

Ig Drifter’s a god too

[tepid goblet]

I'm pretty sure it is conceptual embodiment but I still think he did make them

[restive river]

Then he’s not a god.

[tepid goblet]

Cause Wally is a physical manifestation of the void and the void is what causes CE

Ergo he made them

[restive river]

If it’s conceptual embodiment then no, he did not make them
He concepted them into existence

[restive river]

Where is it ever said he is the void?

He is of the void, made from it

Drifter’s a god too if it all it takes is the ability to conceptually embody life
Heck that goes for anyone who enters the void and makes anything
Kullervo’s a god

Wally is a powerful void entity made from the void, made from Albrecht
He both did and did not exist before Albrecht, through Albrecht he was given something to be

[tepid goblet]

Pretty sure Wally is just a conceptually embodied form of the void that Albrecht created so he's made of the void so I see no difference in him being the void and just being of the void

[restive river]

Heck if all it takes is creating life then I’m sure you could argue the Orokin were gods too then, they sure did manipulate it enough
I’m sure they figured out how to make something new at some point
the sentients for example

[restive river]

Then how does he differ from any other void creation?

[tepid goblet]

Yes I'd say the orokin were gods too

[restive river]

They

Weren’t
That’s the whole point

They were just people, powerful people but just people

Just like how Wally is just a void entity, a powerful one to be sure, but just a void entity

[tepid goblet]

I suppose that's subjective

[restive river]

It is
The definition of a god is subjective

Which is the exact issue and why neither are gods

Thrax isn’t seen as a god and he controls all of Duviri, he’s a void entity just like Wally

[tepid goblet]

Agree to disagree I'd consider Wally a god, just as id consider orokin to be mortals that ascended to godhood

You don't have to agree with that lol

[restive river]

They didn’t though that’s the whole point-

I mean yeah it’s subjective but uh. I don’t think gods bleed.

[tepid goblet]

Jesus has left the chat

[restive river]

If the Orokin were gods they wouldn’t be dead

[tepid goblet]

Who says they're dead?

[restive river]

Isn’t his whole thing that he was literally a mortal man :p

[restive river]

The Tenno literally genocided them

[tepid goblet]

Maybe there consciousness is still floating around in the void somewhere

[restive river]

:|

[tepid goblet]

Their bodies are gone

[raven urchin]

Why you guys saying Albrecht made Wally? The void that morphed himself after reading Albrecht's mind so he could learn about that strange thing(Albrecht)

It IS egoistical of Albrecht tho believe he made a god

[restive river]

Guys the Orokin totally still exist, their consciousness lives on in every drop of kuva ever

[tepid goblet]

We got no confirmation that oro can be destroyed

[silk atlas]

Until DE goes and says that, not a thing

[restive river]

It’s still debtable if Oro exists

[restive river]

We have more sources suggesting he made Wally than Wally predating Albrecht :p

Even Albrecht himself says he made him

[raven urchin]

Cause he is a narcisistical bichir

[restive river]

Okay??
He’s still honest

His whole thing is being honest

[tepid goblet]

If that's even him

[restive river]

That’s
Literally him.

[tepid goblet]

How do you know

Wally can take peoples forms

[raven urchin]

As honest as he was about Russalka to Minerva and Velimir

[restive river]

I’m getting loretuber flashbacks

[raven urchin]

Or to Flare and the Hex

[restive river]

He’s manipulative yes but he is still honest when it comes to fighting Wally

[raven urchin]

Or even to Drifter and Loyd

[tepid goblet]

Knowing Wally can mimic anyone I take anything anyone says in game with a grain of salt cause you can't be certain that's actually them

[restive river]

Guys X character smiled once they’re wally

[raven urchin]

This, and there's the thing that Albrecht is an Orokin, and all they want is to get to Tau

[restive river]

Why would Wally say Albrecht made him and tell us to blow the reactor that’s constantly been blowing within the loop to contain him?

[raven urchin]

Not trustful at all

[tepid goblet]

Glad someone sees what I mean and agrees

[restive river]

The Orokin aren’t trustful at all???
But that doesn’t change the fact Albrecht is honest when it comes to Wally

[raven urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/lol-omg-lol-laugh-gif-12956385894842429484

[tepid goblet]

First Albrecht wanted us to let the hex die

Then he said nah lol actually save them

[restive river]

Like yes Albrecht is a bad person, yes he is horrible and we shouldn’t blindly trust him entirely (despite him literally asking us for that)
He’s still the best chance we have against Wally and his entire goal is stopping Wally

[tepid goblet]

Why the change

Who's who

Can't be sure

[restive river]

He’s playing the villain so we will want to save the Hex???

Cause his whole thing is we need to know them and love them to fight Wally

[silk atlas]

The change was him finding Wally and being scared out of his pants

[raven urchin]

The thing is, why though, would someone want to stop Wally, what has it made that is that so bad?

Aside from Russalka

[tepid goblet]

Or or maybe that was Wally lying to get you to love them so he can feed on the strong emotions

[silk atlas]

Ah yeah making someone's parents go insane and rip into their children isn't a terrible thing, good to know

[restive river]

Literally made all the adults on the Zariman insane, literally pitted hundreds to thousands of children against their feral parents.

[raven urchin]

Nowadays I doubt that was on him, that was them seeing things, knowledge may be a curse

[restive river]

Oh so even though we have observed love to push him back that’s actually totally what he wants? Yup makes sense.

[tepid goblet]

The one rule when dealing with the void is don't be emotional, why would Albrecht suddenly say form emotion when fighting against a void entity

[restive river]

Guys Wally is actually the good guy and totally isn’t evil, trust everyone with a deranged smile!

[silk atlas]

It's not don't be emotional, its to not let them get out of control. That's why he mentions love being the thing to fight back against Wally

[raven urchin]

He is not good, but isn't bad either, he is the embodiment of true neutral

[restive river]

We literally saw love push him back and cut a strand of khra in whispers.
We have literally seen how Wally reacted to love being the poison to his plan.

[restive river]

He
Very much so isnt

[raven urchin]

Right now he is angry with the orokin however, since he still wants his finger back

[restive river]

He literally pit thousands of children against their crazed parents, parents he made go insane

[raven urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/lol-omg-lol-laugh-gif-12956385894842429484

[restive river]

His anger towards the Orokin has nothing to do with the Zariman

[raven urchin]

Yeah, because that was totally before he lost his finger

[restive river]

Oh yeah just shrug it away he’s totally neutral for literal psychopathic behavior

[restive river]

It
It wasn’t

The Zariman literally has a finger drive…

[raven urchin]

My point exactly

[graceful swan]

I wonder if Wally brought popcorn to the massacre

[restive river]

Ok I literally have better things to do so
Bye

[restive river]

He for sure did

[raven urchin]

I know I would

Who doesn't like to watch ants reacting to things?

[tepid goblet]

So funny people assume Wally is evil lol

A being like that is above the concepts of good and evil

You pay no mind to the ants you crush as you walk, why would Wally he didn't make the parents of the tenno go insane to be malicious, he did it just cause he could

[graceful swan]

Just because a concept is foreign to you doesn't make you above it

[tepid goblet]

Says who? The observers?

[woven coyote]

Lets put it this way, wally is extremly harmfull and ill intentioned against us

[tepid goblet]

Again why would Wally care

[tepid goblet]

He's not though? He hasn't shown any hostility towards us

He even talked like he likes us in the hex finale

Gave us his gifts willingly

[woven coyote]

Threats and gasslighting are very ill intentioned imo

[graceful swan]

He incited a riot of insane parents making them try to kill us

[raven urchin]

Let's add that to him all humans were thieves who robbed him of his finger, he only spares the children since they are too young to have been guilty

[woven coyote]

So is causing a situation and then "oh wow here let me help you kinda solve the situation i caused and inflict more pain on you meanwhile"

[tepid goblet]

To mortals sure but again mortal concepts like that are alien to Wally I doubt he thinks his doing anything malicious and even if he does he probably wouldn't care

[raven urchin]

Oh yeah, and before this argument comes, we don't tell one ant apart from other

[woven coyote]

Things have gone way past "oh but he didnt know he wasnt aware of mortal concepts"

[graceful swan]

Just because you don't understand a concept doesn't mean it doesn't exist

[raven urchin]

In catolicism you can't guilt of a sin one that doesn't know of it

[woven coyote]

You are also assuming he is completely alien, what if sythel was right, what if he was made from albrecht, then your whole ohh he didnt know argument goes out of the window because he does know, from albrechts memories

[restive river]

Wally literally murdering duvirians:
oh but he hasn’t done anything of ill intent to us

[raven urchin]

An isolated native can't be guilty of cannibalism since it is part of it's culture

[raven urchin]

Knowing is not understanding

[graceful swan]

Wally has sent people to kill us multiple times

[tepid goblet]

There's colors the human eye can't see, but there's species that CAN see them, to us those colors don't exist, because we cannot understand their concept. But to others they do exist... Same thing with Wally and our concepts

They don't exist to him, just to us

[woven coyote]

You are just grasping at straws trying to find a justification for blatantly and intentional harmfull actions

[raven urchin]

Imo, the whole reason at why Drifter was locked in duviri is so Wally can understand these concepts

[raven urchin]

Harmful for us, not to him 🤷

[restive river]

Ok but Wally is a void entity, the void takes concepts and emotions and makes them real
And we know the emotion of love deeply effects him
So
No, it’s not a lack of understanding, he just does not care

You are confusing him not caring for him being an alien to everything

[restive river]

Literally not what happened what

[raven urchin]

If you say so 🤷

[woven coyote]

And he has looked at our and albrechts memories, to say he doesnt know those things are bad to us is just willfully turning a blind eye

He certainly knows from our memories how bad all of that was

[tepid goblet]

Gunna have to agree you're wrong about that regard

[forest lagoon]

Drifter was locked in duviri bc it was a realm they had created through the void reading their emotions and subconscious they were stuck because they were stuck in their proverbial depression forgetting that they were the ones who created duviri

[graceful swan]

Duviri was created by accident though

Wally caused Drifter to be emotional in the first place by leaving them but didn't expect Duviri to ever be made

[raven urchin]

I see, I was wrong than 🤷

[tepid goblet]

This conversation is getting too heated for my liking, let's just agree to disagree.

[raven urchin]

Again, knowing is not the same as understanding

[tepid goblet]

Ill still be taking anything anyone says with a grain of salt though considering we got a entity of questionable morality capable of stealing people's likeness and voices running rampant.

[woven coyote]

Ah but it doesnt know what stealing is so its fine

[tepid goblet]

Until we have a way to know for certain someone is actually themselves and not a doppelganger I'm not trusting anything anyone says in game

[raven urchin]

Just to know, do you guys have a religion? It's just that the concept of higher beings, being unknown to anything aside them seems easier to me, and I really got some doubts if that's why, I'm catholic for once

[misty helm]

I mean, it's the way the devs can provide exposition on the story, so I wouldn't 100% recomend that

[tepid goblet]

Stealing ironically is something Wally knows what it is lmao so you trying to be a smarazz falls flat

[misty helm]

As almost 90% of the lore comes from some form of exposition through dialogue

[tepid goblet]

Since he accused the orokin of stealing his finger

[misty helm]

I still don't understand how that worked, tbh

[tepid goblet]

I'll listen but wait for verification

[misty helm]

Did the fingers came from Albretch's first encounter with "Wally" or...

[silk atlas]

And hasn't once bothered actually just... Asking for it back.

[silk atlas]

Yes that's how they got severed from him

[misty helm]

But how are they so big

[woven coyote]

So he does know stealing but doesnt know murder, or forcing someone to kill others, interesting, wonder where he got the knowledge of what stealing is....

[tepid goblet]

The first time Albrecht entered the void and fled the closing of the untime door severed Wally's finger(s)

[silk atlas]

Wdym

[misty helm]

Yeah, the fingers are man-sized

Was the 'Wally' Albretch encounter somehow a towering giant the moment he tried to "cross" the door?

I mean, I thought he saw a reflection of himself

[tepid goblet]

"and they swelled larger in the latter days" - Albrecht requiem lore dialogue

[misty helm]

Like we do on our orbiter*

[misty helm]

Oh boi, I totally missed that one then

[silk atlas]

Wally took Albrecht's form in the first encounter

[misty helm]

My bad, ignore my ramblings then

[silk atlas]

As in, usual doppelganger stuff

[raven urchin]

It's not that he doesn't know, he just doesnt care

[misty helm]

Yeah, I totally misunderstood that part
... The pale reaching digits severed on the floor... studied with reverence, with greed. And it swelled larger in the latter days: the regal domes, the Rail dedications, the unholy Zariman parade.

[silk atlas]

The "reverence and greed" is what's swelling in that quote

[woven coyote]

Yeah

[proper barn]

Orokin don't Have any special powers btw.

[graceful swan]

https://tenor.com/view/the-man-in-wall-warframe-gif-24269482

Look how big he is

[proper barn]

That's not the rule. That's when you don't wanna conceptional embody something you have to "control your emotions".

[woven coyote]

Just good old manipulation and erasing of records

[proper barn]

Well more being in a position of leadership.

But yeah.

[woven coyote]

Id say they go hand in hand

[misty helm]

I was thinking about that same part, but given how he mentioned the form "Wally" took was literally him, I don't think he was whatever that thing is

At the moment, I mean

[proper barn]

That's also not true.

[silk atlas]

He was not big boy Wally, correct

[raven urchin]

Not also, but yeah, people proven me wrong on that one

Wally just wanted to keep Drifter close as his only friend

[proper barn]

No?

[misty helm]

I wonder what the deal entailed

[tepid goblet]

Could just be that when Wally doppelgangers as someone (in this case the first contact with Albrecht) it's simple and illusion and when something is severed like his fingers they revert back to normal look and size instead of staying mimicked size

Oh wrong message mb

[graceful swan]

Now that's the question isn't it, Kiddo

[proper barn]

Saving everyone on the Zariman.

[tepid goblet]

Could just be that when Wally doppelgangers as someone (in this case the first contact with Albrecht) it's simple and illusion and when something is severed like his fingers they revert back to normal look and size instead of staying mimicked size

That's just what I'd guess though

[river thicket]

I thought orokins had special powers?

[graceful swan]

No?

[proper barn]

Well I hate he ides that Wally has a true form. I hate that when anything about a shape shifter or horror cresture has a "true form".

[raven urchin]

They had technology, that's it

[tepid goblet]

Oro could be considered a special power if it even actually exists

[proper barn]

Everyone has oro even pets.

[graceful swan]

Who told you Orokin had powers?

[river thicket]

Didn't they glass people?

[proper barn]

Not a power.

[tepid goblet]

That's technology

[graceful swan]

With technology

[river thicket]

Aren't they geneticall surperior humans I would assume they had some sort of power

[proper barn]

Not superhuman at all.

[graceful swan]

Just tech

[raven urchin]

I don't think he does, he just shows himself at people, he learned of narcisism and exibitionism from Albrecht

[river thicket]

Soo they just genetically engineered for cosmetic reasons?

[raven urchin]

Yes

[misty helm]

That makes a lot of sense

[proper barn]

They just stretch their limbs and change their skin color to funny colors. They aren't super human or anything. Just royalty.

[celest pine]

Made themselves look 'more than human' to aid the whole 'we're Gods' mindset

[woven coyote]

Fake it till you make it despot style

[proper barn]

No engineering at all just body modification.

[river thicket]

ya know I would of though they atleast had super strength or something

[proper barn]

Nope.

[river thicket]

but nah they just lame

[proper barn]

Like all leaders and royalty.

[river thicket]

Some were cool others were just imposters

Did they scrap the Orokin emperor idea or is it still canon?

[proper barn]

The ruling class isn't superior they just make you think they are is the point.

[misty helm]

I believe it's a depiction of that phrase "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

[proper barn]

None where cool. The closest we get is the family and albretch.

[river thicket]

Hunhow?

[woven coyote]

I doubt oro exists
When even albrecht ,the scientists known for having a drugged up idea of fighting the void by throwing animals at it, says that your idea is funny and a waste of time, you know its bad

[raven urchin]

Just so I know, if you react to a message, and that message doesn't show the emoji, it means I got silenced?

[proper barn]

Hunhow is a sentient not a orokin.

[misty helm]

Like Ballas 'crafting' the Paracesis(sisisssss)

[river thicket]

he is royallty though I was saying all rulers not just orokin since orokin seem more of a subspecies of useless humans

[proper barn]

Hunhow not royalty

More a general and a father. Not royalty.

[river thicket]

Is he not the father and use to be king of all sentients?

[raven urchin]

Not a father of all, just some

[proper barn]

Not a king of the sentients at all. He is the father of a lot of the ones we see. But we know nothing of the Sentient rulers. We only have ever fought Hunhow and his kids no one else.

[river thicket]

What do you mean some? I thought he and paraghasa birthed all the sentients and became the strongest making them defacto leaders

[proper barn]

There's a whole system of unscared by the Void Sentients.

[proper barn]

No. They are just the ones In the origin system.

[river thicket]

Ya know does any bit of the lore hint that sentients are expanding outside of T'au or nah?

Tau

[proper barn]

Tau is a whole system.

[river thicket]

A solar system right?

[proper barn]

Yeah

[river thicket]

so are they expanding outside of it or is it unknown?

[proper barn]

Probably not.

Its kinda impossible.

[raven urchin]

Lotus, Erra, maybe the other sentients in origin system and eidolons on Earth too are kids of him

[tepid goblet]

We don't know anything happening in Tau as of now

Just that there's sentients there

[raven urchin]

They may be all at peace or at war against each other or a race of aliens

[proper barn]

Well we know there is a solar rail connecting to it. Just our side is broken.

Sentients aren't aliens.

[tepid goblet]

There's no aliens in Warframe

[proper barn]

Yeah.

[tepid goblet]

Wally the closest thing to an alien

[river thicket]

Probably not each other they seem like a hivemind with the lower ones

[raven urchin]

There's the void

[river thicket]

Why does the void render sentients sterile again?

[river thicket]

Well wally is the void itself I think

[tepid goblet]

It was a design of the orokin

[proper barn]

Cus that was the flaw the Orokin gave them when they made them.

[misty helm]

There's no aliens yet in Warframe*

[river thicket]

Oh do they say why or nah?

[tepid goblet]

It was so they could be controlled and not overwhelm the orokin like the infestation did

[proper barn]

So the Orokin could defeat them. Well the Orokin wanted them to die while making the solar rail but they didn't.

[river thicket]

oh

[proper barn]

The Orokin aren't good people.

Idk what made you think they would be.

[river thicket]

Wait I'm confused were the infestation around before the sentients?

[misty helm]

I though they made the sentients before they discovered the void

[proper barn]

Yes

All the way before 1999

[raven urchin]

Nope

[proper barn]

No.

[river thicket]

Isn't 1999 a different timeline?

[proper barn]

Also this wouldn't make sense cus the Sentients are after the Zariman.

[raven urchin]

My bet is during Cold War

[proper barn]

No.

[river thicket]

Wait what....I thought the sentients were sent to make way for the Zariman

[misty helm]

Like weren't they and the rails the only way the Orokin thought for FtL travel in order to reach Tau?

[proper barn]

No that wouldn't make sense.

[proper barn]

Rails are void tech

[tepid goblet]

The zariman had its own reliquary drive it didn't need to make use of solar rails

[raven urchin]

What are you guys talking, of course it was this

[misty helm]

Are they? oh boi I have to read so much stuff again

[river thicket]

Now I got the lore all wrong...

[raven urchin]

Me too than

[proper barn]

It literally wasn't

I can literally get you the qoute from the Sentient creation

[raven urchin]

Bring it

[proper barn]

Cus it talks about "your failed efforts to get to tau"

[river thicket]

Why would the Zariman be sent to Tau before the sentients? How would they Terraform the planet

[raven urchin]

Exactly

[proper barn]

The Zariman has that stuff on it.

Literally we know that.

[river thicket]

Where is this said?

[tepid goblet]

The zariman had its own performing technology

Teraforming*

[misty helm]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-walter-white-youre-right-youre-goddamn-right-gif-12030781

[river thicket]

I guess that explains why its so big

[tepid goblet]

It's assumed the "land" growing around the zariman in duviri is the teraforming tech creating solid land around the ship

[raven urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-steve-carell-michael-scott-thats-what-she-said-gif-20446601

[misty helm]

Yeah, but remember that the Zariman had all this Entrati stuff

[river thicket]

Yeah nah Grim is right Zariman was before sentients

I just looked it up

[misty helm]

I'm getting everything mixed 😵‍💫

[proper barn]

God

I am right I know more than you I'm sorry.

Zariman is before the sentients.

Easy.

[river thicket]

Is there like warframe books or something

[restive river]

That was actually the original concept but it was scrapped

[celest pine]

Also how would Natah have been made to be a 'spy' for the Sentients to destroy the Tenno if she and the others were made before the Zariman incident?

[raven urchin]

No, just the scrapped fragments in whole origin system

And with Cephalon Silmaris

[river thicket]

So wait how do sentients procreate?

[tepid goblet]

Yeah the zariman was sent first with its reliquary drive it didn't need the solar rails, sentients were sent to create Solar rails after for future ships to use and also terraform the planets of Tau so the colonists on the zariman could leave the ship and live on the planets

[raven urchin]

They f... No one knows

[tepid goblet]

And then future ships would arrive via solar rails to an already terraform system with people there already

[river thicket]

Because how would they invade during new war if they couldn't

[misty helm]

They make dubstep

[river thicket]

I knwo the Orokin didn't send like a bazillion Murexs

[raven urchin]

It may be like mammals but also like plants

[proper barn]

Duplicating

[river thicket]

So budding?

[river thicket]

But then there would be sentients as big as hunhow and Parghasa

[proper barn]

It's replication. Also that's why the Void making them barren is such a big thing.

[raven urchin]

Lotus and Erra are is still in growing phase

Eidolons are pretty big

[proper barn]

They are true Ai and can evolve and adapt to anything.

[proper barn]

Eidolons are also a fragment of a larger Sentient.

[river thicket]

I thought they gained Sentience so that shouldn't limit them to AI?

[proper barn]

@river thicket https://www.orokinarchives.com/detron-crewman/

Read this.

[raven urchin]

AI is artificial intelligence, the only thing that would differ the intelligence of a sentient to a human is that it was artificial and not organic, but since new beings born from them, would their intelligence be Artificial?

[woven coyote]

Sentients were after the zariman failed, they werent planned in conjunction

[tepid goblet]

I don't think sentients are AI the orokin considered true AI heretical

[proper barn]

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT

[tepid goblet]

That's why cephalons are used instead

[woven coyote]

They are thats mentioned in the log

[proper barn]

Read the thing I sent.

[river thicket]

Wow

[woven coyote]

They didnt wanna aprove the sentient project because it was ai

[river thicket]

Thank you

[proper barn]

Yes.

[woven coyote]

Or what became the sentient anyway

Doubt they made them with the name sentient lol

[river thicket]

why are the orokin so comically evil

[woven coyote]

Because its more real that way

[tepid goblet]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely

[proper barn]

cuz all ruling classes are evil.

[river thicket]

How is it more real exactly?

[proper barn]

Especially royalty.

[river thicket]

Depends honestly

[proper barn]

Kings are evil dawg. We fight capitalists what do you think this is about?

[woven coyote]

looks at current world state

You tell me you couldnt imagine current humanity doing what the orokin did?

[river thicket]

Rulers and ruling classes are just as bad as people on the street

[proper barn]

What do you think the message is in warframes?

[proper barn]

That's literally not true and not the point.

[river thicket]

No idea honestly I just rip things apart

[tepid goblet]

Humanity is evil

[proper barn]

Thats not the point.

[woven coyote]

It is real because it is current humanity unchecked

[river thicket]

It is though?!

[proper barn]

God you guys are awful at media literacy

[river thicket]

Mafias, Gangs, cartels like dawg people on the street are just as bad

[proper barn]

We fight Capitalists and nationalists basically.

We are allies with workers and towns Folk.

[river thicket]

eh fair point

[proper barn]

What do you think the message is dawg? I don't think the wage slavery is a message about how the normal person is evil I think it's about how capitalism is evil.

Just a guess.

[tepid goblet]

You mean to tell me there's a deeper meaning in my game about robot ninjas with booty?!?

No way

[river thicket]

How is capatalism evil?

Its just a system

[proper barn]

Gonna tell me you played "the non-political game bioshock"

[tepid goblet]

No gods or kings only man

[river thicket]

yeah they are 100% pure capatilism with no morals or laws regarding anyone no one in the world is a pure capatilist system

[woven coyote]

I have to agree that a system by itself isnt evil, but the way it is used and its current leaders.....

[tepid goblet]

BioShock is such a dope series

[proper barn]

Btw bioshocks worst ending is literally the centrist one.

[river thicket]

then blame the leaders not the system

[proper barn]

Both.

Do both.

[river thicket]

without the system most of us would not have any of this stuff

[proper barn]

Media illiterate

[woven coyote]

The system holds the flaws exploited by the bad people

[river thicket]

yeah in the begining its mostly fine then when it goes on for a while yeah it snowballs

[proper barn]

Also you know you can change a system right?

That's the whole point of perrin

[river thicket]

Not when billions of people and hundreds of nations willingly follow it

[proper barn]

In the beginning it wasn't fine. Also "we all have all this stuff" literally sounds like a king telling his knights and peasants they can't leave feudalism we always did feudalism.

[woven coyote]

It can be changed, maybe not by an individual and maybe not immediately but it can

[river thicket]

People don't change it because not everyone wants to including the people at the top

[proper barn]

Well everyone during the middle ages did feudalism we can't change feudalism

[river thicket]

Eh not everyone middle ages is like a 1000 year period

gotta be more specific

[proper barn]

Ignoring my point entirely.

[river thicket]

No I see it just wanna let you know