lore-discussion

[stray gale]

and not a whole lot else

[restive river]

He gets that finger and we’ll see what he can really do

[plush walrus]

Like when he jumpscared us in 1999 then just started giggling 💢

[stray gale]

like dr doofenschmirtz

[lean garden]

Oh its a fun thing, because I'm not sure if its because he doesnt know better, or cant be any better

let us recall bird 3

[stray gale]

the most powerful force in all creation and he spends his time trolling one specific 13 year old

[restive river]

and their alt universe grown up self

[plush walrus]

Once he gets his finger back. Then it's 2012 pranks on YouTube era. Pranks gone wrong, dropping money in the hood pranks. All sorts of chaos

[graceful swan]

And hunting an old man

[restive river]

Like he’s literally fully attacking Duviri PURELY because we booted him from 1999’s loop lmao

[lean garden]

"Hmm, I wasn't me, then I was me. Will I be not me again? When I'm not me, will I remember being me? Will I miss me? I think I miss being not me. When I was not me, names weren't things. Things weren't things. Everything was anything. When I was not me there was nothing I wasn't. Now I'm just… me. And things are just things. Rark. Wuk. [pause] Being a person is hard. I don't feel like me fits in me.** Inside me is the wrong size for outside me. Outside me is the wrong size for outside.** I wonder if the other mes feel like this. Wuk. Rark. Hm. Rark.** I was bigger when I was smaller."**

is he a petty little caca for the love of the game, or is he a petty little caca because the game only lets him be one

[plush walrus]

If Wally gets out of control, we can always count on God king Pablo to take care of him. 🙏

[stray gale]

Operator: He moves! Right there! Wait, wait... Right there! Right as I'm sitting down! I don't know, I don't know how he does it. But, there's no tack on my stool before he moves and after he moves, there's a tack! Coincidence? I think not!

or maybe he'll pull a kai leng from mass effect 3 and break into our dormizone to eat our cereal

[plush walrus]

Wally getting his finger back means he can start throwing gang signs. Also Crip walking

👀

[cunning tapir]

No. I don't think forgiving Wally is an option.
I noted a pattern before the new war.
Zariman- He forced the Tenno in a position where they'd have to kill their own parents to survive
Sacrifice- Wally whispered to the Tenno in the Lotus' voice to lead them to Umbra. Tenno internallizes Umbra's memory so they feel the loss of 'their' son.
Chimera- leads them to the Paracesis and subtly hints that the Tenno would have to fight Lotus and maybe kill her, their surrogate mother.

Anyway you slice it, that pattern of "Kill the ones you love" comes across as 100% intentional especially after knowing his weakness to love.

[stray gale]

tbf we did kinda need that paracesis

[plush walrus]

De will make us choose to kill the protoframes we romance.

[cunning tapir]

yeah, but the implication was there.

[plush walrus]

What was the Paracelsus used for again?

[stray gale]

it's used in TNW

[cunning tapir]

Ballas used it mainly.

[plush walrus]

I still couldn't craft it

Ah ok, yea

[stray gale]

yeah, you just get given one if you havent crafted it

[cunning tapir]

But yeah, I noted that pattern years ago before TNW dropped and knowing his weakness to love, it all hits different now.

[stray gale]

In Devstream 123, [DE]Steve advised not to sell the Paracesis (despite not being possible to). On Update 27.0 (2019-12-13), the weapon would come into play in triggering the Erra quest, however the quest's activation was changed in Update 27.2 (2020-03-05) to no longer use the Paracesis.

The Paracesis is not required to start The New War, despite initially appearing on the Warframe's back even if the player doesn't own one or did not equip it prior to starting the quest. An unranked, unmoddable Paracesis is also temporarily given to the player toward the climax of the quest.

[plush walrus]

Ye after the TNW I seen it was a reward but didn't have the metrials. Still haven't crafted it to this day cause of glaive prime

[plush walrus]

Damn wonder how this will play out in duviri

[stray gale]

it is kinda funny how DE went kinda hard with all the "bonus damage to sentients" around this era of the game despite how we rarely fight them

even in lua missions you fight a handful of them

[cunning tapir]

difficult to say whether Isleweaver's because of that pattern I mentioned or because Wally always had the means to attack anytime it wanted.

[stray gale]

if we ever go to tau and fight sentients as a whole faction unto themselves, it would be nice if umbral mods were expanded

the bane mods being set bonuses is an interesting idea

[plush walrus]

Well to enter duviri does he need to possess someone to enter it? Like neci in 1999?

Or since it's in the void he can just enter

[lilac aspen]

DE I beg of you to give us Tau so I can get the dust off my Paracesis

[graceful swan]

There's no reason to go to Tau

[lilac aspen]

For the Fish Market clearly
Tau fish

[plush walrus]

Would be cool to flee to tau to finally battle wally. With the sentients, like an endgame story point

[stray gale]

I mean I'd like to go to tau just to shoot at some sentients

because I think they have a neat, unique design

would be nice to see that expanded

[graceful swan]

Everything Tau has Origin also has

[stray gale]

sentients have surprisingly little gameplay relevance despite how much focus they have in lore

[graceful swan]

Well we did blow up their fleet

[plush walrus]

If it wasn't for the archon hunts. I'd have forgotten about them entirely

[stray gale]

sometimes when doing the lua survivals (I still haven't farmed all of voruna) I dont' even notice the sentients amidst the enemies lol

they just pop like balloons with the rest of them

[plush walrus]

Except that one disco ball attack that randomly.kills me

[graceful swan]

Sentients are the smallest faction in the game

[stray gale]

like overall one of my biggest issues with 1999 is that the new enemy factions were not very interesting to play against

I'd rather fight expanded sentients than infested 2: techrot boogaloo

[plush walrus]

Was super annoyed with he big beefy dude with tough Crit. Till I seen a Grendel swallow him

[stray gale]

or scaldra, the paramilitary fascistic cult of actually nevermind go back underground and fight more techrot

[graceful swan]

4 Archons and 2 family members is all that remains of the Sentients

[plush walrus]

The scaldra Bounties always made me sigh when I seen them. Scaldra Survival makes it so that there's no techrot

[graceful swan]

Civilian purge type thing

[stray gale]

"there's barely any techrot in the area!"

are you SURE about that?

[sly ibex]

We don't know how many in total are left, but we do only have the names of a few.

[lilac aspen]

Yeah I’m pretty sure there’s more sentients
It’s just they are in no rush to go out in the open and die to just about every faction

[lilac aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/are-you-sure-about-that-gif-17735709754501735355

[stray gale]

I don't think there's anywhere in this city where there isn't techrot

they're like mushrooms

[graceful swan]

There actually isn't

Mall has Hex and the 4 new ones who were ill due to Techrot

Backroom has rot due to Helminth

Maybe the tower doesn't but we can't access it

The skies have the stadium with Coda

The abandoned malls the rot lives in

[restive river]

The sentients didn’t exactly have to send many during the old war, they can fragment themselves and use those as units
Which
They do

Most of the sentients are in Tau

[graceful swan]

Tbh they kinda have to fragment

They're called the Sentients yet theres only really 7 actual Sentients left

[restive river]

I mean
We don’t know how many are in Tau

How much they’ve reproduced and built

[graceful swan]

I mean in Origin system there's only like 7

[restive river]

Oh
Yeah

[graceful swan]

We only ever fight fragments

Except in New War when we fought Lotus and the Archons

I wonder if Archons have fragments

[restive river]

Lotus died but we said nuh uh
Hunhow’s in the soup
Erra’s a walking corpse
Praghsa’s just dead dead
And then the 3 Archons
And technically the Eidolon but we never got a name for it ig

I do wonder if Praghasa still produces fragments or how Narmer gets their numbers exactly

Maybe she’s more so “brain-dead” than dead-dead?

[stiff fable]

If Praghasa were dead-dead she'd be an eidolon

And Narmer harvested a bunch of Temple Kuva

There's a chance now that the Sentients have hit one of their win conditions by fixing their Void-derived sterility

[graceful swan]

Soeaking about Lotus

How in the world did she expect to kill us back in the Old War when we literally shoot her weakness our our hands

[stiff fable]

Oh, the plan was to have the Tenno kill the Orokin, have the Tenno go to sleep, and then launch the Reservoir into the sun or something

Tenno CAN die, it just takes more work than killing an Orokin

[restive river]

Yeah

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/princess-mostly-dead-slightly-alive-the-princess-bride-gif-15503255

[graceful swan]

Unless the Sun cooked her to death

[stiff fable]

It's amazing how much work I get out of this one Princess Bride scene in Warframe discussions

and yeah true

[tall echo]

Not necessarily

[lilac aspen]

Not every sentient becomes an eidolon upon death. They just die.

[tall echo]

The archons were remade from dead sentients after all

[woven coyote]

Well the main sentients so far have been shown as turning into eidolons, it's usually fragments(aka the troops we fight) that die die

[stiff fable]

The archons are a different thing entirely

They're closer to amalgams

[tall echo]

Natah also didn't really turn into an eidolon right away

[tall echo]

The archons are only the sentient bits

[stiff fable]

By the time you see her in New War she's dying, like Hunhow, not dead

[stiff fable]

Right, like amalgam units

[tall echo]

Hunhow himself says that erra made them from dead sentients

[stiff fable]

The Archons are something weird, because the Sentient Beasts weren't like other sentients

I'm not going to claim to know what they were, but they weren't terraforming tools

[lilac aspen]

Maybe they existed as beasts as part of the terraforming process

[stiff fable]

Could be? But they supposed provide "anti-entropic radiation" which sounds more like they were Sentient medics

[lilac aspen]

Probably then that was their task

Keep the sentients alive

[olive sandal]

the drifter is the one that starts the full year 1999 loop right?

[stiff fable]

no

I can't read, you said full year. Anyway, still no, Albrecht apparently did that for Drifter.

Drifter "just" triggered the loop to keep Wally from breaking into the past

[raven wadi]

Is The Stalker Baby going to come Back as an playable frame?

[stiff fable]

unlikely but we don't know

[silk escarp]

not likely anytime soon. my theory is that it'll grow to be combat capable quickly and might at some point be in a tenuous alliance with the operator. i'm betting the next time we see it it'll be the same approximate size as the operator at a more adolescent stage.

[lilac aspen]

I think it’ll be an npc helper of sorts

[raven urchin]

Guys, prove me wrong, but, thinking back on Chains of Harrow and how Wally was possessing Rell, I think that in our timeline until chains of harrow we hadn't made the deal with Wally yet, only during New War when all timelines converged/merged is that we became the one that had made the Deal, until than, it would have been Rell

[lilac aspen]

You see
That’d be an interesting theory but pretty sure there was even a comic regarding Rell

Basically he was the only guy to question about Wally and thus the only one bothering to stop him

I hate those other kids though
They locked him out due to his “oddness”, making them immediately assume he’s like the other folk of the Zariman

[graceful swan]

Issue with that theory is the deal scene was being trapped in own history meaning what you see is what actually happened

[restive river]

Rell was the only one who knew what Wally was
Which is why he imprisoned him

[restive river]

Also this yeah

[raven urchin]

Yeah, but by eternallism terms there was both a universe where we had and a universe we hadn't made the deal, where another did

[restive river]

It’s a literal flashback into our own history, revealing that we were the ones to make the deal
Which resulted in 2 realities, one where we all got saved and one where Drifter got left behind and no powers

[raven urchin]

In this scene I'd bet Rell could be the one who eventually makes the deal before us

[restive river]

Eternalism as a concept was introduced and explained SPECIFICALLY to explain the Drifter/Operator split

All the other timelines die out

[raven urchin]

Yes, and only the one where we made the deal exists

And that's my point

[restive river]

Without us making the deal there’s no Drifter even

[placid cypress]

Eternalism = yes

[strange plinth]

only theoretically accessible, though
and drifter entering our universe was not a merging of all timelines
even then, baro had to make a big deal with wally for something like that to happen

[restive river]

The two where we made a deal.

[graceful swan]

Eternalism doesn't mean yes

[placid cypress]

Hi Ducky 🐤 👋 🌟

[restive river]

Ello

[raven urchin]

Has it been said if the Drifter made the Deal?

[restive river]

Also yeah Eternalism doesn’t just mean
Yes

[restive river]

Yes :|

[strange plinth]

"someone to figure out"
he's questioning wally, not trying to make a deal with him
that's the donda he used to calm down iirc

[graceful swan]

29. You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you?

A. CORRUPT FILE DETECTED

B. I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you. (correct)

[raven urchin]

I seee

[restive river]

Drifter and Operator both made the deal
In Drifter’s timeline of events they didn’t get powers and were not saved and end up making Duviri
In Operator’s timeline it goes how we know, we get powers, we get saved, we are Tenno.

[raven urchin]

Drifter is Tenno too, don't exclude the poor one

[strange plinth]

drifter wasn't tenno until operator escaped their past, though

[raven urchin]

He was in Ten0 that makes him a Tenno

[graceful swan]

Drifter and Operator made the same deal with the exact same terms where it diverges is what Wally meant

[restive river]

I mean Tenno the faction who pilot the frames and served the Orokin
But yes, all people of the Zariman are TECHNICALLY Tenno as they are from the 10-0

[restive river]

Exactly this

[raven urchin]

Baro? Kiteer?

[graceful swan]

Yes

[strange plinth]

correct
a lore explanation for the merging of the servers on different platforms:
baro made a deal to consolidate his wealth or something

[graceful swan]

Cross play was made a thing because Baro made a deal with Wally

[raven urchin]

Aaaaaah

LoL, DE is funny

[graceful swan]

Baro didn't like that other Baro existed

[raven urchin]

Baro, the true Corpus Villain or the only true hero

Corpus as in, profit, not as faction

[strange plinth]

huh. given the reddit comment about the operator and drifter sharing the same space, and the other watching from a void pocket
i wonder if baro has a bunch of other baros floating around watching him

[raven urchin]

If I'm not mistaken all other Tenno Player Character died in new war, may be wrong though

They all falling yknow

[graceful swan]

Baro it’s a little different because Baro got Wally getting rid of the Baro so only one remained

[strange plinth]

yeah that's a baro thing to do, fair enough

[raven urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-bnp-better-name-pending-baro-baro-kiteer-gif-19010567

[graceful swan]

Wally did do the same with us though by killing some other us

Nothing states if it was all of us or just some of us

[radiant bronze]

Hey guys where are the proto frames from?

I was told they aren't the OG frames.

So did the orokin make frames based on the protos actions?

[graceful swan]

All over

[restive river]

No

[graceful swan]

Albrecht took Helminth into the past

[radiant bronze]

Sorry if I seem dumb.

[strange plinth]

the gap between 1999 and the orokin empire is enough that the orokin wouldn't know about the protos at all, either due to time or the orokin purging stuff before them

[radiant bronze]

Okay

[restive river]

Ballas makes the Warframes
Albrecht steals his designs and uses them in 1999
Makes the Vessels linking them to the Protos through their infestation and humanity
The Warframes predate the Protoframes despite the fact that chronologically the Protoframes happen in the further past, you can’t have Protos without the originals.

[radiant bronze]

So the orokin just accidentally made copies of the hex members without meaning to?

[radiant bronze]

Ohhhhhhhh

That makes so much sense Ducky thank you 😭

[strange plinth]

helminth injections of the warframes were taken to the past and used there for protos, yeah

[restive river]

Ballas makes Warframes -> Albrecht steals designs -> Goes to 1999 -> Albrecht Makes Protos -> Albrecht Makes Vessels -> Albrecht Stays In 1999

No bootstraps here
Not even Flare/Temple

[restive river]

They happen so far apart too that they couldn’t have made copies

[strange plinth]

yup
i'm glad they found a way to completely avoid bootstrapping
hell, even acknowledging it w/ flare's first words to you when to talk to them in the mall

[restive river]

The only known surviving Protoframe in the future is Temple during the Night of the Naga drums
Since
Outside of the loop they all fully transform and will be lost to time

[restive river]

Yup, no grandfathers, no bootstraps

I love that the Lua Spy Vaults are like a mini version of the palimpsest of spacetime

[radiant bronze]

Okay thank you guys so so much

What is bootstrapping btw

[restive river]

Ok

I’ll try to explain

Imagine you have a piece of music you really like, you also have a time machine
You go back in time to meet your favorite musician. But. They don’t exist! But you have all their music… you become your own favorite musician.

[radiant bronze]

That sounds... Depressing

[restive river]

Lol

[radiant bronze]

Cause then the original artist would never become an artist.

Or at least. Not make the same level of music.

Interesting Ducky I'll remember that term for when it comes up. Thank you again 🩷🩵🩷

[raven urchin]

The idea is that there was never an original artist

He was always you

[strange plinth]

you just have a bunch of music with seemingly no origin, that now-future you will always find and go back to find, and then replace

[restive river]

It’s that there is no original cause it is the original but it can’t be but it is
Paradox!

[restive river]

Except you have their music
You become them

Where did the music come from?

[radiant bronze]

Cause of time shenanigans. But you would know that you aren't the artist right?

[restive river]

You liked the music
You have it all, brought it to the past, you become the musician in a sense and inspire yourself with that music

[raven urchin]

You would realize you are eventually

[restive river]

It’s an infinite loop and the music has no actual origin

[radiant bronze]

Remind me to not get in a time travel machine.

[restive river]

Tbh if you wanna look at a piece of media with paradoxes that explains them well go read Homestuck
I know that’s a tall order but it explains bootstraps well for example

[radiant bronze]

I'll see if the library has it

It's not a tall order at all! I love expanding my brain

[restive river]

Oh it’s online :)

[radiant bronze]

Oh ballin then

[stiff fable]

I'm prtty sure recommending Homestuck to someone is against the Geneva Convention

[restive river]

Look up the unofficial collection

[radiant bronze]

uh

[strange plinth]

another example was the
you open your door to find blueprints for a time machine, with instructions on how to make it and to drop the blueprints at your door on a certain date at a certain time. you do so and the cycle continues, but who built the original time machine and dropped the blueprints at your door
that one has more of an explanation than the music one, but its still odd

[radiant bronze]

okay now I'm worried

[restive river]

We play warcrime simulator

[stiff fable]

touche

[restive river]

It’s just really long, convoluted and a product of it’s time
But it has amazing music and art and I love the story
And many love the characters

Toby Fox made a lot of the music

[radiant bronze]

Oh that's fine lol.

[normal mountain]

No really?

[restive river]

He lived in the Author’s basement when making Undertale lol

[radiant bronze]

There's some content that I've briefly interacted with that is definitely against the Geneva convention. "Product of its time" is not one of them.

[restive river]

He did
I heard megalovania before sans lmao

Lmao

[radiant bronze]

Ahhh pretty neat. I haven't played undertale but I watched so many playthroughs.

[stiff fable]

funny story, Toby is a turbo weeb

[restive river]

There’s a couple slurs and “humor” of the early 2010s

[normal mountain]

Have you seen the musical yet?

[stiff fable]

Megalovania is a riff on Megalomania from Live-A-Live

[restive river]

Ok now THAT is a warcrime

[normal mountain]

What? You don't like 4 hour musicals?

[radiant bronze]

Nop

[normal mountain]

Okay, to be fair, I wasn't able to watch it in one sitting

[raven urchin]

Dark is a show that's totally based on bootstrap

[normal mountain]

When you have about 4 hrs of free time, look up Undertale the Musical

[graceful swan]

Geneva Convention? I've heard of the Geneva Suggestion

[normal mountain]

It's sort-of like a fully voiced playthrough

[restive river]

Oh also
@radiant bronze if you get into Homestuck I do not suggest conversing with the community, enjoy it with friends but be careful
It’s uh. Not been great in the past

[radiant bronze]

I'll give it a shot! I gotta make a list lol

[raven urchin]

I actually hate bootstrap universes, cyclic timelines, all that

[radiant bronze]

Ahh.. unfortunate. I actually had a horrible interaction with the Gurren Lagann community so I kinda accept it at this point to try not to interact with communities.

[restive river]

I had a similar thing with Don’t Starve
Warframe’s community has by far been the best

We rarely get bad apples :)

Helps the devs are chill and the game is good

[radiant bronze]

As long as you ignore Region 4chan chat. It's amazing

[restive river]

Oh I learned to stay away from there years ago

Unfortunately
I can not look at some frames the same

[radiant bronze]

That chat needs a constant nuke just to stay stable and it's unfortunate.

[restive river]

Well
One

[normal mountain]

Only one community I've experienced was of similar chill
then again, I only joined up after the show had ended, so I probably just missed the storm

[graceful swan]

Good news

1999 is neither a bootstrap or different timeline

Duviri and the Zariman is all that remains of Drifter's timeline

Time loops in Warframe are surprisingly simple to understand

[restive river]

Man I wanna help Ticker get whatever care she needs now

[restive river]

Which is funny cause they should seem confusing but they just aren’t!

Lua Spy is literally the palimpsest of spacetime

Like I am the queen of overthinking time travel/paradoxes sometimes
Warframe does it so so well

Granted I had Homestuck and Doctor Who which both utilize both of those plenty :p

[strange plinth]

lua spy is frustrating not because of time travel shenanigans, but because what the hell does it want me to do
i swear i spent like 20 minutes staring at one of them going 'oh, i have to get through there. but how.'

[normal mountain]

what the heck even was my first time travel/paradox story anyways?

I don't even remember lol

[raven urchin]

It is, but is still a bootstrap since Flare is still a protoframe created from themself

[strange plinth]

themself,
and albrecht took a strain of Temple which ballas had concepted but not made and injected Flare with it
Flare returns to the origin system after albrecht's permanent leave, so he couldn't take one from that Temple anyway

[normal mountain]

The Temple warframe (which we presumably knew about before time traveling) is Flare, fully transformed after hibernating on a comet until the Fall of the Orokin Empire

[raven urchin]

Still, it still is the same past, and everything that happens has already happened

[restive river]

Real

[raven urchin]

Being one that hates the concept of destiny in itself, I totally hate these plots

[restive river]

We
Literally change the past
So does Albrecht

Temple with Lizzie does not exist without Flare

[dire mountain]

I would love to get a cutscene about the Night of the Naga Drums but I know we never will

[raven urchin]

Your point being?

[dire mountain]

Maybe Temple Prime's trailer could show it (pipedream)

[normal mountain]

Not a fan of Bungie, eh?

[restive river]

Ballas refused to make the design
Albrecht modifies it and gives it to Flare
Flare becomes the first and only Temple in time

[restive river]

My point being they aren’t a bootstrap.

[restive river]

Oh I would love that

[dire mountain]

I think my ideal Temple Prime trailer would show them priming themselves admist the chaos

Because obviously they'd have to prime themselves? If Ballas never built one, and also a Warframe with rebellion in its very DNA. Priming themselves to stick it to the man would be very in-character I'd think

[normal mountain]

I always thought they'd show up Primed
Apparently, comets can have gold deposits in them
Lizzie might get hungry after a few centuries

[strange plinth]

perhaps they crash into the ongoing fight and emerge, primed, from the fire
or gemini-emote themselves into prime form
ooo

[restive river]

I hope they use aspects from the comet tbh

Maybe they come out blue and instead of gold like a nice silver?

[raven urchin]

As funny as it is, no, I'm not

[restive river]

Really rebelling from the typical primes

[dire mountain]

This is another pipedream but I'd love eventually for them to go back and give prime trailers to those who haven't gotten one

I'm mostly thinking sevagoth, xaku, and lavos (my beloveds)

[normal mountain]

STARTING WITH GARUDA

[raven urchin]

Oooh OOOOOOH NOW I GET IT

[strange plinth]

rebel so hard we get Temple Umbra instead of prime

[dire mountain]

Okay but it would be really funny if they skipped her again

[restive river]

I mean hey
DE said no human warframes and now they have, if they think it’s cool and good enough they’ll do it!

[normal mountain]

I'd probably be too pissed to get the joke at first
But yeah, it would be

[strange plinth]

garuda gets 1 second removed from her trailer whenever it gets asked about

[raven urchin]

In my defense is Flare's fault since their Kim made me so confused, I literally needed these minutes for the coin to drop

Thanks Ducky

[restive river]

their
And yee

[dire mountain]

Maybe? Would definitely break the status quo which is also in-character. I just typically imagined them using the colors of the orokin kinda akin to clancy actually

[strange turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-carl-weathers-gif-5129663

[dire mountain]

(Just for reference, the world of trench had revolutionaries hiding in plain sight with the banditos wearing yellow and the bishops wore red. Clancy, however, ultimately turned the color of oppression (red) into one of opposition. That's how I imagine Temple. Appropriating the colors of the Orokin for themself)

[proper barn]

Lizzie is a little cosmic and confusing.

[brittle siren]

Just noticed that Thrax call Duviri "our world" with the Drifter

[raven urchin]

Yes, cause the Drifter created it

[sage moat]

are the nightingales being related to nora night canon or is that just a popular headcanon i heard

[brittle siren]

No

[raven urchin]

I still think Thrax is Drifter counterpart of Duviri

Them own self off emotions

[sage moat]

gotcha, thanks

[restive river]

Where did you hear that lol

[brittle siren]

Yes but before dev stream I doubt Thrax know that, until now ofc

[restive river]

Thrax is from the storybook and was the Drifter’s best friend
They are as much a part of the Drifter as Duviri is as it was all made from them.

[sage moat]

i just vaguely remember it from my last long stint on this server and i couldn't remember if it was confirmed or just a hc

[brittle siren]

Thrax prob the only Duviri character that kinda break 4th wall (not irl wall though)

Though I may be wrong since Duviri story book is all over the place in Duviri

So maybe everyone knows, but clueless about Drifter is their true creator

[humble sierra]

Arcithis might also know?

[dire mountain]

Acrithis knows

I think most are aware of it. Just no desire to acknowledge it

[restive river]

^

[old dome]

mesa prime narrated trailer... please de.......

[dire mountain]

Tbh I forgot Mesa existed

[strange plinth]

i remember mesa whenever i'm in granum void and i think
"oh yeah some people use mesa here. i should try that some time" and then i forget

[old dome]

khora also doesnt have a narrated trailer iirc...

[strange plinth]

khora does

[old dome]

she does??

by ballas?? what did he say abt her?

[strange plinth]

its similar to saryn's, saying that she's similar to margulis reborn in warframe form again iirc

[old dome]

...margulis loved cats & spiders. gotcha

[raven urchin]

Everyone plays male Mesa now Quincy

[old dome]

...given how icy venus is, would yareli be considered a skater girl or a surfer??

im thinking abt kdrive & how it came to be and then realized that... venus is all ice & snow. theres very few water areas, too...

[restive river]

She’s the waverider
She k-drives on ice and coolant

[swift sentinel]

She's kind of both

[swift sentinel]

None of them truly understands how much I lost, when I lost her. Nor by what subtle art my dead love now lives, within another's gleaming skull.

So tonight, we shall celebrate. In her honor, and mine, I shall unveil a new creation, a harmony of mistress... and monster.

An apex predator, a deathless companion. Unsurpassed. Blood-raw in whip, claw and fang. Khora.

[soft jackal]

So uh when we use transference, is the tenno inside the chair in your orbiter or not? I remember in the jade quest you tp away with transference (to help Jade I think), and then there is a scene where you live through Jades experiences in the chair anyways? so was the tenno in the chair or

[eternal ether]

your tenno teleports in

[proper barn]

teleports in probably.

[graceful swan]

Uses transference on the feather giving a connection to Jade during Transference you’re never actually in the frame hence why you’re still in the chair and why when you die as Operator you don’t actually die you’re not actually there

[soft jackal]

so whats the teleport about then

[graceful swan]

Using transference on the feather as I said

This is how transference has always worked

You’re never actually in the frame

[hexed oxide]

during whispers in the walls when the indifference goes "rap tap tap" is it like him casting a spell (for lack of better term) or is it just mocking rell ?

[strange plinth]

more than likely just a callback to rell
confirming that these are the same entity in separate quests

[proper barn]

Well not exactly same. Rell was holding DOWN Wally for 1k years.

[graceful swan]

Here’s the thing many get wrong

Rap tap tap is actually Wally’s saying not Rells, Rell was basically dead at this point and Wally had took over

[hexed oxide]

during whispers in the walls or chains of harrow ? because it seems pretty clear rell was already "resting" by the end of chains of harrow

[proper barn]

Well not for like 1k years Rell's spirit was holding him at bay.

[graceful swan]

At the end of chains he was but Rap tap tap isn’t mocking Rell because it wasn’t Rell’s saying

[proper barn]

Sure.

[graceful swan]

Vitruvian man is probably Wally mocking Rell though

[hexed oxide]

i thought rap tap was rell's way of saying the sounds we hear later, kind of like strings tensing up or a "sinking" noise

[proper barn]

But also before that

Albretch say tapping on the untime door?

[graceful swan]

During the Zariman incident you see Wally Rap tap tapping

Rell just says what Wally does

[spice jewel]

Sythel in Duviri also says rap tap tap sometimes when you encounter her at that church looking building.

[graceful swan]

Wasn’t it mother who says tapping not Albrecht

[proper barn]

Maybe?

[graceful swan]

I remember Wally played knock door run on her

[spice jewel]

I think mother said that when you first meet her

[raven urchin]

Exactly, what enters the frame is the mind of our operator, like an astral projection, an off body possession of the Warframe body and mind, kinda the same that Wally did on Russalka (the possession part)

[white sable]

@graceful sand I am here

[graceful sand]

Ask about”the sacrifice” your here cause of that and someone calling warframes machines right?

[white sable]

I was asking about magus anamoly

[graceful sand]

This too ^

[white sable]

Ah that ye that one I found
I think someone else was that

[graceful sand]

Ngl I have no clue what that is 😂

[white sable]

Though, about this
Warframes are mind controlled by tenno and not piloted by actually jumping into like a mech

[strange plinth]

yeah, transference is essentially putting your consciousness into the warframe body temporarily
mind control isn't exactly right, because in most cases there isn't enough consciousness there to be controlling

[graceful swan]

There’s barely any mind to control for most frames

[white sable]

True true

[pseudo spindle]

If I'm remembering this right, there are actually only 3 cases of the mind control thing for warframes

1: your starter frame
2: umbra
3: protoframes (I'm putting them all together for simplicity)

Every other warframe that we build is more of a synthetic copy

But its not really a mind control, its basically taking a backseat when transfered into

[lean garden]

weeeeelll, your basic frame still has a rudimentary form of brain for you to control

because any concept of "any frame we make is xyz" must contend that the umbra that exists now fits in that category at minimum

[pseudo spindle]

Umbra is more an exception and not the rule kinda deal

[lean garden]

Your starter frame likewise fits in that category too, because we dont know how you acquired yours

[pseudo spindle]

Cause he has some conflicting areas with other stuff

[lean garden]

Umbra by default is also a "synthetic copy" we build

because we built his ahh

Not repair. Built

[pseudo spindle]

The thing about the warframes we build is that we have an imprint of their original personality (which makes the abilities) as drifter states in the kim

Umbra is not an imprint but the whole guy

[lean garden]

Correct, which implies a measure of rudimentary mind to control

[pseudo spindle]

Ehh

Its more like, take control of a brain dead body?

[lean garden]

You cant scrape the vestiges of a personality from whats not there

[pseudo spindle]

I mean, with how temple works its kinda like a half can half cant

[lean garden]

To be more accurate on the side on what we do know, you might be better off labelling it as "controlling a warframe with an active consciousness"

and then dropping your starter from that list

because your starter is definitely not clearing that category

[pseudo spindle]

I mean, I don't think a rhino i build without the infestation is gonna have a concious

Compared to the first generation of warframes who could do whatever they want

[lean garden]

I mean did you not bring up the KIM message?

[pseudo spindle]

Yeah

[lean garden]

which is not your starter frame

[pseudo spindle]

Yeah I think our starter was a second generation warframe, which still had someone used to make it, but they couldn't do anything cause all control was taken away

[lean garden]

which is to say, theres remnants of an active mind there

its definitely not brain dead, since that would imply that its completely vacant

but despite no one being home, it was someones home yazimme

[pseudo spindle]

I mean its probably some infested bs that really does anything tbh

[lean garden]

mind you, I suspect the only real difference between a warframe of the post-tenno generation made from a human and made from your 3D printer is just the way they were made

functionally they are identical

because your 3D printer proved that it could make an exact copy of what is given to it, as shown by our remaking of umbra

[pseudo spindle]

I mean, I'm pretty sure the first and second gen could actually talk to the tenno controlling them (this is from the jade feathers stuff)

But its still a sort of difference

[lean garden]

Jade unironically is also an exception

because like umbra, she's got children issues that kept her right in the head

and like umbra she got turnt as a punishment LOL

[strange plinth]

with umbra and the protoframes its explicitly a consent thing, no?
they have to let you take their body
and even then, they're able (in the case of the protos at least) to make comments n such without your input, so their mind isn't controlled, just shifted to the side
umbra and arthur are able to throw you out when you try transference on them initially

[pseudo spindle]

Yeah

But i still believe that the warframes we build form the foundry are just empty

The only exception we have gotten from foundry building is umbra

[strange plinth]

and umbra was from a direct scan of the sapient frame, not a blueprint

[lean garden]

I posit that they are "empty" because the scans they receive are of the original, who is also in that state

you yourself alluded to such by mentioning temple

[pseudo spindle]

Temple is kinda a mixed bag regarding this

Cause flare is temple, but at the same time we aren't building flare

[lean garden]

Not exactly, the ones we build are of a temple who's already waited years upon years just to nay nay on the orokin

[lean garden]

oh but we are

we're building a flare that fully transformed into temple

[pseudo spindle]

However they aren't actually flare

[lean garden]

They were flare

Now they are only temple

[pseudo spindle]

No?

[lean garden]

The temples we build are what flare will and did turn into, come the night of naga drums

[lean garden]

wdym no?

[tall echo]

Did you complete flare's KIM chat with the good ending

[pseudo spindle]

Yes

Its more like we are building temple, but they are also not temple

The original and the copies are not the same person

[tall echo]

Flare is temple is flare

[lean garden]

But your 3D printer is fully capable of producing an exact copy of the data you feed it

[tall echo]

We need theseus for this one

[lean garden]

That ship can kiss my behind, ontology ftw

[pseudo spindle]

I mean think about it though

[tall echo]

I don't think it can, ships tend to not have a mouth

[lean garden]

tell that to the ship's figurehead

those typically come with some lips

[pseudo spindle]

If flare transforms into temple, flare and temple are the same person, but if we built temple using different parts that arent from the original, is it flare?

[strange plinth]

where's theseus' orbiter, we have a helminth to find

[lean garden]

aaaaaaaand the ship is back

[tall echo]

Unless it's some kind of animal

[lean garden]

well lets phrase it slightly differently
Umbra exists, umbra dies. We scan his remains. We build a new umbra from new materials based on the scans. Is it umbra?

[tall echo]

I now headcanon that somewhere out there is a tenno named theseus who had to replace their orbiter bit by bit due to battle damage

[pseudo spindle]

Now this is the harder question

Cause we use technically use umbra to build umbra

[lean garden]

well, technically, if you count copying someone's answers

[pseudo spindle]

As you said before, we scan umbra to rebuild him

But we need to rebuild what we don't have of the remains

[strange plinth]

we use scans, but not materials i think
original umbra's remains stay there iirc

[pseudo spindle]

Its been like a long while since I did sacrifice

[lean garden]

we uh dont use his remains

we just scan to get the design

dude was deadahh just a scarf at one location

[graceful swan]

Dude was blown up

[pseudo spindle]

Speaking of which, how the hell did umbra even come back to life

With full control

Cause I remember bro was ash

[graceful swan]

Foundry copy same as all frames

Most if not all original frames died

[lean garden]

like I said, 3D printer able to make exact copy

[strange plinth]

the scan included sapience rather than the blank mind of the blueprints, so it printed sapience
its. odd.

[lean garden]

and the one we scanned had a functional brain

so the 3D printer made one with a functional brain

[pseudo spindle]

I guess it might have something to do with umbra being a unique build as well

[raw jay]

In lore is the player the only tenno? Because in the new war we only see ourselves, the lotus and teshin getting tossed into the portal thing (if I’m remembering correctly) and then the entire system got veiled, did the loss of one tenno shift the power balance that much? Or were everyone else hiding in the necralisk?

[lean garden]

at no point in umbra's first life did he get evicted from the chromedomehome, so there was no way for our scans to pick up a "hollow" version

[graceful swan]

Chat should I scan the Hex so I can get a permanent Hex in Origin System

[lean garden]

In lore, not the only one. Still not sure why losing us resulted the way it did for tenno forces in TNW

[raw jay]

Maybe that rhino in kahl’s bit was holding the entire system together

[pseudo spindle]

Mr3 with a corinth prime, so maybe

[strange plinth]

there are a bunch of tenno canonically
but we're the only "main" one that goes through the new war n stuff
presumably the others were in hiding during narmer, either due to lost powers or overwhelming enemies
there's a fortuna event iirc that calculated somewhere in the tens or hundreds of thousands of tenno? but grain of salt

[graceful swan]

New War shows multiple and Wally even mentions the others when he said I can save them all of them you just have to want it

[lean garden]

got it slightly off for that last bit

[strange plinth]

please correct me lol i knew that couldn't be quite right

[pseudo spindle]

I mean it might be a bit goofy for new war

Cause like, we are the only drifter that we know of

[lean garden]

the fortuna ARG implied millions, because it was reflective of the playerbase, which we know is ludonarrative, because duh, that number is growing despite it not logically being able to grow.

it is the Angels of the Zariman ARG that implies somewhere between a 5-7 digit number of tenno (probably a 6 digit one), which we can take as more accurate, because its reflective of on board crew/passengers for the zariman

[graceful swan]

Ballas banishing us seemingly banished all Tenno

[pseudo spindle]

So I guess its a drifter per universe type thing?

[strange plinth]

only one drifter iirc, but multiple operators

[pseudo spindle]

New war has a lot of confusing plot points

[graceful swan]

Does it though

[strange plinth]

i see, thanks

[graceful swan]

Most of New War is simple to explain

[pseudo spindle]

I mean, would the stalker not just kill on sight

[graceful swan]

Which he was going to do

[strange plinth]

not if hunhow's curious enough to stop him

[graceful swan]

Hunhow stopped him

[lean garden]

I mean, you didnt walk in as a warframe, and grandpappy helped out

[pseudo spindle]

Also how did we not need stalkers help for the other archons

[graceful swan]

Stalker refuses to attack kids
Even adults he sees as the kids

[graceful swan]

He literally helps us fight them though

[pseudo spindle]

Once

He helps us once

And that's the first archon

[raw jay]

We had warframe for the last one, stalker only rips out the shards for us no?

[pseudo spindle]

No we rip out the second shard

[graceful swan]

He revives you if you die in the first 2 that’s helping

[strange plinth]

i'd imagine stalker follows you to the first to make sure you know what you're doing, and is more hands-off for the second

[lean garden]

We definitely didnt need help for the third archon LMAO, my fight with nira who I saved for last ended in seconds

dog walked that snake

[pseudo spindle]

I one shot amar

[lean garden]

🤝

[raw jay]

Drifter got some power up from shard contamination ig

[graceful swan]

I replayed New War and brought Nataruk into the fight

[pseudo spindle]

But still why didn't we get help for the second archon (other than reviving us)

Like bro helped us kill one archon then decided to leave

[lean garden]

I'll be honest I didnt even notice stalker for any of the fights, I was gamermaxxing

[strange plinth]

handled the first well enough, and he still doesn't like you

[graceful swan]

And to this day he still doesn’t like us

[pseudo spindle]

Ehh, 50/50

[graceful swan]

He never forgave us he needed us

[pseudo spindle]

As I said, 50/50

[strange plinth]

even when he needed us, it took jade telling him that for him to listen
misremembered potentially, wiki's not helping my case

[graceful swan]

The only reason he went to us was Hunhow

Was pure desperation

[pseudo spindle]

He still appreciates the help, cause he found out that jade was, well jade didn't he, other than that he still wants to kill us cause of what we did to the orokin

Cause that screwed with his chances of finding jade

[graceful swan]

He found out Jade was Jade without our help though

[raw jay]

Didn’t Jade find him?

[graceful swan]

Yes

Saved him

[pseudo spindle]

During the orokin massacre

[graceful swan]

What we did was help her give birth

He probably hates us for killing her by getting the baby out

[pseudo spindle]

The birth qte was still so random

[strange plinth]

"When the drums struck, I saw him. Changed, just as I was changed. But the medal was his. There is no other like it.

My Sorren. And he did not know me.

I took him. I flew. Through blood and storm and insanity, I flew."

[pseudo spindle]

You know, this brings up a new question

Who the hell are the acolytes

[strange plinth]

who the hell are the acolytes

[pseudo spindle]

Cause like, why do they have warframe armour

[graceful swan]

Stalker fanatics

They haven’t had lore since their event

[pseudo spindle]

But they have warframe armor and abilities

And like stalker can do that cause he is a warframe

[graceful swan]

Nothing states how they have the frame

[raw jay]

They got fused like harrow

[pseudo spindle]

Wouldn't make sense

[raw jay]

I made it up

[raw stone]

Oh acolytes... this still an open discussion topic?

You see, Acolytes got unveiled for I think... Buried Debts? Alad's Operation thingy. Then they got retroactively added to Steel Path. I admit they are much more scaled to sp, but their lines, even the dialogue written is still outdated. Especially since SP doesn't connect to Alad. And all of their lines talk about him. I linda hope in the future the Acolytes maybe get a bit of an update, I don't need another Jade Shadows for the Acolytes... just want them to feel less an afterthought

[charred patio]

sometimes, it feels like eleanor and aoi swap place
like, eleanor is such a sweet girl, theres something so "pure" about her

[lean garden]

You mean like the part of her that almost became a nun?

[raven urchin]

Operation Shadow Debts
"The Stalker has found others as twisted as himself. He calls them his Acolytes and he's sent them after ME?!
SHHH. I have to be very quiet, they cloak, they could be hiding anywhere… listening to this.

I'm calling in my favor. Break into Corpus and Grineer installations and steal their security data. With enough data, I can determine their cloaking patterns and turn the tables on these… betrayers."

”
—A message from Alad V

I think the idea DE had it for Stalker by the time of Second Dream was that Stalker was controlled by a Tenno sided with the Orokin

So the Acolytes would be the same, Tenno sided with Stalker to defeat their Tenno enemies

[tall echo]

Eh?

[restive river]

With what we know of Jade Shadows they’re likely just like him
Sapient Warframes that were loyal

Idk how you got that they were Tenno
I mean it was ambiguous during the second dream but with what we know now. Stalker never had a Tenno and if the Acolytes are like him then they didn’t either

Heck we even comment on how Jade is like him

[swift steppe]

whos excited for Yareli prime trailer thingy

[restive river]

Me

[swift steppe]

i know i ammmmm

cant wait to have her and her kompressa omgggg

i will have to forma everything again but its okay bcz shes pretty

i wonder what balls will say about her

[tall echo]

If she even gets one

[swift steppe]

didnt they say she WAS getting one?

[tall echo]

Even with the music in the teaser I'm not sure

[swift steppe]

like she literally is getting one

[restive river]

She is getting one lmao

[tall echo]

If they did I didn't see

[swift steppe]

what yall think balls will say about her

[restive river]

They literally said she’s getting a trailer lmao

[swift steppe]

i think hes gonna fangirl over her cause i mean who wouldnt

[swift steppe]

oh its okay it happens

[tall echo]

I bet 2 plat that the trailer is gonna involve her losing again

[restive river]

LOL

[swift steppe]

thats not very nice now

[restive river]

her whole lore is her just
losing

[swift steppe]

i didnt watch her trailer when she came out lol

[swift steppe]

WHAT lmao thats so sad

[tall echo]

2/2 yareli lores are her losing

[swift steppe]

BRUH WHY

[restive river]

Read her comic
It’s about her losing to a redditor

[swift steppe]

WHAT

[tall echo]

Reddit mod def

[restive river]

Go read her comic lmao

[swift steppe]

i cant im not in game rn

[restive river]

She freed some child slaves but she lost the fight lmao

[tall echo]

Horizontally gifted slaver

[swift steppe]

is there a way to read her comic without being in game

[swift steppe]

wtf does that even mean

[swift steppe]

jesus is she rlly this bad 😭

[tall echo]

It's a funny way to say fat

[restive river]

I disliked her on release for many reasons
Including that

[swift steppe]

let my girl have her redemption arc 🙏🙏

[swift steppe]

oh okay

[restive river]

She was fanservicy, lost to a reddit mod, just wasn’t even good??? And had a k-drive the most unpopular mode of transport in the game

My opinion has changed
I like her now
But oof

[tall echo]

And then there's that yareli cosplayer

[swift steppe]

wdym lost to a reddit mod

[restive river]

She lost to a reddit moderator

[swift steppe]

whats wrong w the cosplayer

[swift steppe]

like literally?

[tall echo]

Another funny way to say fat

[swift steppe]

but shes not fat??? am i missing something here

[restive river]

a very large guy who was gross and icky

[swift steppe]

man i rlly hope im just very slow

[tall echo]

A hamster in your brain wheel

[restive river]

https://youtu.be/gRyiZi3VV7A?si=f7EIfVl0rWVwZd1e

[swift steppe]

literally LMAO

[restive river]

Watch that

[restive river]

It’s so icky ):

Like c’mon guys
This is so
Eewwww

[tall echo]

Yareli's design is almost def for a specific audience

Unfortunately

[silk atlas]

Yareli's design is honestly fine and I don't really see it as fanservice-y. THE FEMALE HEIRLOOMS ON THE OTHER HAND

[swift steppe]

oh okay i see

but like wasnt this just to buy the kids time to escape?

[tall echo]

Yes

[swift steppe]

its so ugly like wtf is wrong w that thing on his belly get out im scared

[tall echo]

Tbh without the very long skirt yareli would double in fanserviceness because she could rival the heirlooms

[swift steppe]

lmao

[tall echo]

It doesn't seem to serve any purpose

[sly ibex]

[swift steppe]

anyway whats wrong w the yareli cosplayer

[tall echo]

O no

[swift steppe]

oh okay

[tall echo]

Le minion

[sly ibex]

No bashing on the cosplayer who won, please. The twerk had no impact on who won.

[swift steppe]

what? did they kill someone??? whats so bad with the cosplayer

[swift steppe]

oh its just that?

[sly ibex]

The o no was to me talking lol

[swift steppe]

OH lol my baddddd

[tall echo]

It prob didn't have an impact on the general perception of yareli either tbf

Not a huge impact anyways

[swift steppe]

wait isnt yareli like young?

[restive river]

Oh yeah my opinion on how fanservicy she is changed when I realized banshee deluxe exists lmao

[swift steppe]

wait no she isnt shes a warframe warframe dont have ages

but she looks young tho

[restive river]

That cosplayer killed it and we should love her cause she NAILED it

[sly ibex]

She was amazing. Answered with in-world resources when asked what was used to make the cosplay, had the freaking idle animation down AND had a bubble gun for it. 10/10.

[restive river]

I mean Nezha is like
The child warrior frame or something iirc
But yeah frames don’t have ages exactly since they are infested humans and the ones we make are exact copies

[silk atlas]

Pretty sure, yeah, but it just feels kinda pathetic when you hear about the other stuff Warframes do. I don't mind it but it's a funny narrative.

[restive river]

Her and the necramech killed it
And the Little Duck cosplayer!

[swift steppe]

to me in my head shes a young warframe like nezha is

[restive river]

Man when they had the cosplay portion that year I remember some nasty people in game being rude

[sly ibex]

😦

[swift steppe]

do they have cosplay thingy every year?

[sly ibex]

Yep!

[tall echo]

Yeh

[swift steppe]

awesome

[sly ibex]

This year's will be on Friday, before the concert.

[tall echo]

I don't think I've ever paid attention to it aside from that one time the real baro ki'teer showed up

[silk atlas]

Nezha still put up a fight against people who were committing a massacre. Yareli was just dealing with one (1) fat guy

[swift steppe]

WHAT do you mean the real baro kiterr showed up

[graceful swan]

I wish I was social enough to go to Tennocon tbh it’s easier watching than going for me

[tall echo]

I will not elaborate

[restive river]

Fr, she didn’t have to lose to distract him 😭

[swift steppe]

yeah true

[swift steppe]

YOU CANT DO THIS TO ME you have to elaborate

[tall echo]

I wish I was rich enough to go

[graceful swan]

There’s that too

[tall echo]

My pure autism would help me survive the social interactions

[tall echo]

Nah

[swift steppe]

whyyyy 😭😭😭🙏🙏🙏

[tall echo]

It's funnier if I don't

[swift steppe]

lol alright

[graceful swan]

My pure Autism would resort to Masking

[tall echo]

Persona reference

I can talk if the topic aligns with my interests, which would be the case in tennocon

[raven urchin]

That's why I said "by the time of Second Dream" 👀

[raven urchin]

Well, let's all be real here, what would impede the Orokin from infesting a child with technocyte? Pretty sure it could have happened, resulting in both Yareli and Nezha

[swift steppe]

the real question is why wouldnt they do that

they literally can why wouldnt they do it

[raven urchin]

Part of my hate on the Trap meme comes from the "sexualization" thus meme brings to a possible child

The other part is the transphobia thus meme acts

[swift steppe]

wtf is trap memes

first time i hear this combination of word ever

[raven urchin]

A gross part of the community that keeps saying "Nezha is a ---" for the meme effect

[swift steppe]

oh ok so its a good thing if i dont know about them

the entire thing w the rhino meme on reddit?

[raven urchin]

This one I dont know

[swift steppe]

oh okay well it was kind of weird

but its about nezha and rhino

[graceful swan]

So they can stay with an age rating that doesn’t annoy countries that don’t like children getting attacked

[swift steppe]

yeah that makes sense but i mean

we are a child doing everything in the geneva convention irl and worse

[tall echo]

Operator

[swift steppe]

so like why wouldnt those country be upset

a child doing war crimes is extremely bad imo

[graceful swan]

Tbh Operator isn’t really ever in danger

[tall echo]

What's the difference

[swift steppe]

yeah that is true but whats the difference

[strange turtle]

I mean the lore doesn’t actually matter

[swift steppe]

a child is still killing i mean isnt that super extra bad?

[graceful swan]

The difference is Operator is sitting on a gaming chair controlling the frame

[swift steppe]

why would those countries be mad cuz the orokin infects children but when its a whole child doing war crimes they arent mad idk i dont get it

maybe im just too dumb to get it

[tall echo]

Until you transference into a mission

Your logic isn't logicing

[swift steppe]

also i was more asking in a lore sense

why wouldnt the orokin or whoever give the infection to children

they can be molded easier no?

[graceful swan]

Lore wise there is an infested baby

[tall echo]

Bc those are their future bodies

[swift steppe]

i guess that makes sense

[strange turtle]

Not really

[tall echo]

Everything is equally easy to shape for the technocyte

[graceful swan]

Ballas infesting a mother infested a baby

[swift steppe]

oh okay so being an adult or a kid doesnt change anything

welp

[stiff fable]

Also the Orokin don't care to risk letting the infestation get at their own minds

[strange turtle]

If it was a child they liked the body of they might have them choose another child, but they wouldn’t particularly care about doing it to just any kid

[swift steppe]

i see

[raven urchin]

For sure they wouldn't infect that one, but what if it was to pass a message? Like what Ballas did with Umbra

[swift steppe]

im rlly curious of what theyre going to do with stalker's child

[graceful swan]

I see many people ask why Rell was never turned into a frame forgetting we’re immune and that Rell died

[swift steppe]

rip rell

[swift steppe]

what was the message w umbra i dont remember that

[tall echo]

Nothing

[raven urchin]

He tried cheating on Ballas but Ballas cheated on him

[swift steppe]

wha

[tall echo]

Umbra was a punishment

[swift steppe]

im getting conflicting answers rn

didnt balls just straight up torture umbra w his own kid???

[graceful swan]

Spying not cheating

[tall echo]

Lenn is senator armstronging lore

[raven urchin]

Yeah that's the message he was passing on

[swift steppe]

what does armstronging even mean

[raven urchin]

Dont mess with me or I turn you into monster

[swift steppe]

those are big words english isnt my first language lol

[tall echo]

"Source? My source is that I made it the hek up!"

[swift steppe]

oh

[graceful swan]

His son was the sacrifice

[stiff fable]

Other way around, Ballas was planning to betray the Orokin and Umbra was the detective who almost caught him

[strange turtle]

But standing here, will daughter realise the lore?

[stiff fable]

When you play the Komi game against Ballas? Every time you lose a piece, Ballas has one of Umbra's family members murdered

[swift steppe]

im ngl the lore is very confusing from what i remember balls just tortured Umbra for no real reason besides he wants to

and he has the power to

[strange turtle]

I don’t remember that, did I just forget it being said or was it mentioned somewhere else?

[tall echo]

Loses 50 pieces to hopefully extend the tree far enough to hit ballas

[raven urchin]

They were friends though thats why I said cheating

[stiff fable]

He says it during the conversation

[tall echo]

They weren't

[stiff fable]

Orokin don't have friends

[swift steppe]

balls cant have friends lmao

[stiff fable]

They're not emotionally capable of it

[raven urchin]

He does say Old Friend

[stiff fable]

He's saying that sarcastically

[raven urchin]

I take his word for it

[tall echo]

Everything is literal

[stiff fable]

[tall echo]

Nuance is dead

Jokes are a myth

[strange turtle]

Umbra probably just worked closely with him to some extent

[strange turtle]

Or he made it up to troll Isah

[stiff fable]

Basically

[swift steppe]

wait so the deimos family are orokin right? what are we to them are we their friends? but captain said orokin arent emotionally capable of having friends

[raven urchin]

Not for Isaah though, he believed Ballas so Umbra could have too

[swift steppe]

so whats going on with that

[tall echo]

Lenn trusts unreliable narrator #1 to be honest

[swift steppe]

balls manipulation is working lmao

[stiff fable]

The infestation, surprisingly

They lost an incredible part of what made them "Orokin"

[tall echo]

They are captain was just over-exaggerating

[stiff fable]

Not by much

[swift steppe]

wait actually this makes sense

[tall echo]

They didn't lose that much

[swift steppe]

but they still lost some

[stiff fable]

They did tho

[raven urchin]

Hey, that's what they showed, and it's the only memory Umbra has passing in a loop all these millenium

[tall echo]

Their names and some tiny bits of their past

[raven urchin]

I will take Umbra's memories for word

[stiff fable]

Mother can't remember her own father's name some days

[swift steppe]

damn thats sad

i mean i guess its deserved the dude is an absolute shit father

[tall echo]

They didn't forget like. Their whole life

The entrati are more sociable than other orokin

[stiff fable]

They lost enough that they're genuinely better people now

[old dome]

the deimos father...?? not. really... the mother is verbally & emotionally abusive towards him.

[swift steppe]

nooo they are talking about her father to her like albrecht

she dont remember his name

[lean garden]

I think the point of contention wasnt that it was a case of friendly feuds. Regardless of their relationship with each other, ballas betrayed the orokin, and umbra caught him, and then ballas caught umbra for catching him. This could have happened even if they werent friends

[old dome]

oooooooh yeah hes terrible

[swift steppe]

i mean thats what i understood maybe you are right

[tall echo]

Albrecht

[stiff fable]

Yeah I mean Albrecht

[raven urchin]

I know, what I'm saying is why I used the verb "to cheat"

[old dome]

wasnt umbra his bodyguard or smth??

[stiff fable]

Honestly still possibly qualifies for Orokin Father of the Year because he has a good reason to abandon his family

[tall echo]

I don't think the memory loss is the main impact there

[swift steppe]

but nada is right lol the deimos mom is very abusive to the deimos dad

[stiff fable]

Not specifically no

[old dome]

the bar is, unfortunately, that low.

[strange turtle]

We’re like one of those family friends that is basically one of the family with how close they are, but the type where it doesn’t ever get explicitly acknowledged, I think

[stiff fable]

The bar is in hell

[lean garden]

I uh, am very uncertain "cheating" is the right verb for what happened

[swift steppe]

thats... complicated? LMAO

[tall echo]

Being aware of your entire empire being destroyed by the person now helping you survive might make you consider being friendly to them

[lean garden]

unknown

[stiff fable]

The only time that comes up, Son says the Orokin deserved it

[swift steppe]

is he wrong?

[stiff fable]

Absolutely not

[tall echo]

Another point towards it not being the memory loss

[strange turtle]

To try and put it more simply. When you were a kid was there ever a friend of your mum or dad that was basically an aunt/uncle to you but you never called them that?

[proper barn]

We become family.

[tall echo]

Son is one of the best orokin

[strange turtle]

I mean like that

[stiff fable]

My point is that they're basically different people now

[swift steppe]

not really but i understand a bit better now im ngl

[stiff fable]

Like, they've taken new names because they aren't who they used to be

[raven urchin]

Well, I don't know, I'm Brazilian, here to cheat is the same as betrayal

So I made a Joke

[tall echo]

Dang how isolated is your family

[lean garden]

ah language barrier

[swift steppe]

its like that everywhere i think

[stiff fable]

Es diferente en íngles

[lean garden]

not exactly

[swift steppe]

idk i think were just unlucky

[tall echo]

They've taken them because the infestation ate their previous names

[swift steppe]

do we know their actual real names tho

[stiff fable]

And identities

[tall echo]

We know mother's

[swift steppe]

what was it again

[tall echo]

And grandma's

[stiff fable]

Only grandmother, who never takes a new name, and mother

[swift steppe]

yeah grandma is dagath

[stiff fable]

Mother was Euleria

[raven urchin]

Wait....WHAT?

[swift steppe]

nice name

[tall echo]

Nuh

[stiff fable]

Aka the Duviri narrator

[raven urchin]

SHE'S DAGATH?

[stiff fable]

Not the Warframe

[swift steppe]

no but her real name IS dagath

she gave it to the warframe for idk what reason i forgot

[tall echo]

She gave her name to dagath

[stiff fable]

The Warframe hunted her down in the past

[strange turtle]

If you go into Dagath’s Hollow you can get the story

[stiff fable]

And she gave the Warframe her own name as a toll for safe passage

[raven urchin]

Aaaaaaaaaah, I seeeeee

[swift steppe]

very nice story

[lean garden]

like lets take the relationship type of cheating out of the equation

to cheat, specifically your boss (the principal), you needed to do something that is essentially against what your boss required you to do.

However, ratting out Ballas shouldnt be taken as cheating the principal, because the principal for the Dax are the Seven, not just one of the Seven.

Legally, theres no cheating on Umbra's end

[swift steppe]

they got together

[raven urchin]

For a moment I thought she got cured hahahaha

[swift steppe]

lmao unfortunately no

i dont think they ever will

they are doomed beyond repair

[tall echo]

You hang out here and don't even know the easily accessible grandma story smh my head

[swift steppe]

its okay it happens

[tall echo]

That is not how the saying goes

[swift steppe]

what? theres a saying? i didnt even know lol

[raven urchin]

I've been building and rebuilding my dojo latelly

[stiff fable]

The reason cheat = betrayal in romance languages is that you use the same word for romantic cheating that you do for betraying a friend

So, languages!

[lean garden]

Oh yea I dont doubt that, but I dont speak romance, I got no rizz

[raven urchin]

And that was my joke

[tall echo]

A joke that don't work in english

Painfully common

[raven urchin]

Sadly so

[stiff fable]

Most people here are cultureless Americans

[tall echo]

As a german punmaster, it hurts me

[stiff fable]

Can't speak good languages

[swift steppe]

most americans are

[stiff fable]

Can confirm

[swift steppe]

happy to NOT be american unfortunately my sin is the greatest ever...

[raven urchin]

Punmaster sounds like poopmaster though

[swift steppe]

xDDDDD

[stiff fable]

(It's extra funny because English is the language that beats up other languages and steals words and grammar from them)

[tall echo]

Most americans aren't even aware that there are other countries

[tall echo]

Not really but shiposting is another thing I'm a master of

[swift steppe]

that is so real

[stiff fable]

There are Americans who think English came from America.

And not ENGLAND.

[swift steppe]

they keep stealing french words and not even saying them correctly

[stiff fable]

I just can't

[raven urchin]

Isn't english a mix of Austro-hungary?

[tall echo]

I wish memes were allowed here

[tall echo]

It's a mix of everything

[graceful swan]

Americans are taught America is the most important country

[swift steppe]

this is truly beyond my understanding especially since we have... technology

[raven urchin]

It's called ego

[stiff fable]

Been a while but: Germanic base, half of French's vocabulary, Saxon grammar, Latin sentence structure

[tall echo]

Every german word in the english language feels like a personal attack

[stiff fable]

I think

[swift steppe]

i guess

[stiff fable]

The language most similar to English is Flemish iirc

[swift steppe]

french uses a lot of greek words

latin words too

[stiff fable]

Which shows how weird it is

[raven urchin]

Yeaaaaa, I missed it, I meant GermanSaxon

[graceful swan]

Chat do you think America even exists in the Warframe universe I only ever see nodes in Europe

[swift steppe]

yes it does

[tall echo]

Sadly yes

[stiff fable]

Yes, Libertania

[swift steppe]

canada exists in game so america does too

[stiff fable]

Velimir and Amir are from there

[raven urchin]

Amir is from Libertania

[tall echo]

And it's somehow even more american

[stiff fable]

Minerva too I think

[swift steppe]

lol we got americans in warframe before gta6

[tall echo]

Qwerty moment

[tall echo]

Velimir walking into the bar drunk be like

[swift steppe]

my name is minerva yo

[graceful swan]

Libertania honestly sounds like the worst country to live in

[swift steppe]

bcz it is since its the UK

[raven urchin]

Still don't know if Hollvania is Canada or if DE is just settled there in Warframe Universe

[tall echo]

Wait everyone got the name wrong

[swift steppe]

no canada in game is canata

[tall echo]

It's libertatia

[swift steppe]

aoi says shes from there

[lean garden]

liberatatatata

[graceful swan]

Libatty

[stiff fable]

Sick name be proud

[tall echo]

Libertiber

[raven urchin]

I mean, Canata sounds like a Japanese country too

[swift steppe]

i am

[swift steppe]

idk but its canada they just changed 1 letter and i think its based

[raven urchin]

Hey Saryn!

[swift steppe]

xDdd

[tall echo]

Höllvania is 1000% in warframe europe

[swift steppe]

sure is

looks europian

[raven urchin]

They did a better job with Mexico and US than

[swift steppe]

the roads are just a bit too big

[stiff fable]

Anyway the big difference between WF Earth and us Earth seems to be that Christianity worships a sun/moon pair and the Balkans are much larger since more of Europe has warlords and city-states

[tall echo]

Has an aggressively european name

[swift steppe]

lolll

[tall echo]

There are sidewalks

[swift steppe]

yeah that too

[swift steppe]

yeah

[raven urchin]

So is DE settled in Hollvania than?

[graceful swan]

Hollvania isn’t very good place to live

[swift steppe]

theyre all british except lettie aoi kaya maybe flare and minerva and velimir and amir

[swift steppe]

idk im pretty sure they are in london ontario

[lean garden]

eh? Christianity doesnt have a monopoly on nuns

I dont even know if christianity developed in the WF timeline lol

[swift steppe]

their religion is dualism thats what i got from the story

they preach the sun and moon equinox is basically the embodiment of dualism

i mean thats just what I understood

maybe i got it all wrong i wouldnt be surprised if i got everything wrong too

but from what eleanor says they preach the sun and moon

but not like god and satan ig

idk its been awhile since i got on

[graceful swan]

Before the vain faith, our people held Dualism as truth
...That all things were of two parts: Mind and Body, Consciousness and Matter. Of our world, and the Void..

[swift steppe]

it seems like eleanor still preaches dualism tho

i mean thats what i got from talking to her like 4times over

and they all swear by the sun and the moon iirc idk what word they use exactly but its something like that

[graceful swan]

Well 1999 is the actual past of the Origin System before the Orokin so it’s before they switched to Vain faith

[swift steppe]

they always say by sol's nanana something

like we say with god

[swift steppe]

yeah youre right

the scaldra is literally the ancestors of the orokin

i mean its in the name isnt it?

ORO something something

also from what ive got in the trailer of the new duviri thing, wally is still controlling rusalka

[stiff fable]

Not from that, it's Lettie

[swift steppe]

that has nothing to do with what i just said i just need to say it

[olive sandal]

so does the drifter "fix" the timeline 🤔 ? the state of 1999 post shenanigans is the original 1999 that leads up to current era?

[swift steppe]

its not fixed

i dont think it is

and for your other question i think we just have to wait and see what DE gives us

[lean garden]

what did she say?

[olive sandal]

the finale gave me the impression it was fixed, and the continued looping was like patching/preventing it from breaking again? or maybe was in the KIM convos

[swift steppe]

that would make sense but i do not know

[sage moat]

1999, tmk, isn't in the main timeline yet. If we loop it enough and get the good ending every time, it becomes the real timeline.

[swift steppe]

still doesnt explain the new requiem they put in the cutscene

[sage moat]

Don't ask me why that's how it works, I think it is best described as "wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff" that doesn't need an explanation

[swift steppe]

where you do the begin again thingy

[silk atlas]

It is in the main timeline. That's why Coda shows up in the RJ mission as well as ||Flare's good ending is them saying they're going to wait until the beating of the Naga Drums||

[graceful swan]

1999 is just the past of our Origin System

[olive sandal]

what causes the looping though? Albrecht void tech shenanigans?

[lean garden]

yes

[swift steppe]

exactly

and us doing the begin again thingy

[sage moat]

Is this back to the future rules where the future immediately changes

[swift steppe]

i dont think so?

[graceful swan]

Nope

[swift steppe]

if it was like that the entire lore would be fu'ed

including operator

[olive sandal]

yea the duviri spinny thing made me think it was drifter's powers but I guess its not? or maybe drifter initiated it but doesn't power the loop? Its a little bit confusing what the drifter's capabilities actually are

[swift steppe]

it is tho

i mean from what i understood it is drifter that prompted the loop by doing the begin again thing

[graceful swan]

Drifter doesn’t have time powers the throne does

[swift steppe]

but its albrecht that put it in place

but drifter prompted it to actually begin... again

and bam new requiem that we never heard of after lol

[olive sandal]

but drifter created the throne right? I don't think he actually needs to be on the throne, wasn't that more of a usurping duviri from thrax kinda thing?

[graceful swan]

Inbox messaged after you fail says Albrecht gave you more time

[swift steppe]

that was thrax thing

[sage moat]

Wibbly wobbly timey wimey

[swift steppe]

we dont need to be in the throne i dont think we need to because we did the begin again thing lying on the floor

and re-wrote the entire requiem sentence

and put a new one or something like that its very confusing

im struggling to explain what i want to say cuz english isnt my first language

[graceful swan]

That’s a motif Drifter literally just started dying and the loop did a loop

[swift steppe]

yeah so we prompted albrecht's time loop by literally dying and doing the begin again fist thing

and now here we are in duviri type loop but we have to rizz up the protoframes

so we learn love or whatever and then after that and probably other things we will be able to beat the shi out of wally

thats what i understood from the entire 1999 quest

[olive sandal]

letsee so this is what the mail said

but I do think at least in Duviri drifter doesn't have to be on the throne? probably just symbolizes taking back control of Duviri from thrax. Which he then gives back again after ressing Teshin.

[swift steppe]

no it doesnt have to be on the throne because from what i understood in duviri its thrax that is prompting the entire loop to start again