lore-discussion

[dire mountain]

No

[strange plinth]

what are you referring to here?
eleanor's reaching to the alternate her is the most "outlandish" thing they've done with it afaik
and that's not that far.

[dire mountain]

Thank you

Its basically just an extension of how the drifter exists

[graceful swan]

Eternalism wasn’t meant to be the be all end all of conversation it was just their to explain like 3 things

[old dome]

any idea whats that?? on callisto...

[humble sierra]

Probably another gas facility?

[cunning tapir]

I believe that's one of those hidden sentient facilitis hidden in the clouds of Jupiter.
I believe this is from when Natah trapped Alad V in a deal with the sentients in an attempt to use corpus robotics and crewman to create amalgams.

[slow phoenix]

nope, umbra is confirmed a dax, arthur is confirmed a normal dude from 1999 (pre warframe)

that was more a "what if eleanor didnt get entrati'd" timeline, basicaly what would've happened in she didnt go to hollvania

[slow phoenix]

looks a lot like a sentient ship

[normal mountain]

It's deeper than just that
This timeline, Eleanor was a journalist
The other one, she chose to be a nun

If she had gone to Hollvania as a nun, I say it's still entirely possible that she would have gotten a helminth strain from Entrati
Might not have been Nyx, (maybe Equinox?), but still

[dense lark]

Can someone recommend me a good YouTube video for warframe lore for a new player

[normal mountain]

Yes
None of them

[old dome]

play the game.

[dense lark]

That’s a shame

Someone should come out with a good video on it

[old dome]

just play the game

[feral cape]

Orokin archive

[dire mountain]

None of them

[feral cape]

Orokin archive on YouTube

[dense lark]

Does war frame even have lore?

[feral cape]

Thats it that's the good one

[feral cape]

Yea

[dense lark]

Is it lore or is it just stuff the player base created

[feral cape]

Its lore

Stuff made up by the players is called headcanon

[dense lark]

Ohh I didn’t know that. I’ll definitely check out orokin archive

Thanks pal

[old dome]

its lore written by de themselves. literally the draw of the game (if you dont care abt the unlimited big dmg numbers...)

the lore is peak

[feral cape]

I definitely wouldnt say the lore is what draws people in most people i play with do not care about the lore

[dense lark]

Well the art and the characters are all so interesting and mystical

[feral cape]

I enjoy the lore i have issues with it solid 8/10

[strange plinth]

i've yet to see a youtube video that accurately describes the lore in full
most of it is full of headcanon and/or misinterpretation

• because the story is actively being added to and evolving, anything older than a couple months is outdated and may conflict with current knowledge
  also there's a lot of big story moments that hit so much more if you don't see them coming (the second dream and the new war are the big ones), which is why most will recommend simply playing through the game w/o spoiling yourself with lore videos or summaries
  orokin archives is the best place to go for lore, though i hear the youtube channel associated doesn't upload super often

[feral cape]

Yea gray is a smidgen inconsistent with posting

About as bad as me I post lore on tik tok

However I haven't posted a lore thing in a hot minute

Its mostly build showcasing or me proving myself right

Everything i post is usually peer reviewed by both gray and bau before it goes out

[strange plinth]

that's a good way to do it

[hexed oxide]

Did the reactor go off in time to allow albrecht to use the energy before the reset ?

[feral cape]

The reactor causes the reset

[north ferry]

The lore and setting is a lot of 'vibes' you don't get without playing the games.
I will say though that sometimes the opposite is true. Jade Shadows kinda didn't hit very well because the 'lore' for it was elsewhere.

[proper barn]

We mostly talk about cannon lore.

If we are talking about something else like a theory or personal idea we usually say that

[dense lark]

Cannon lore is what I’m most interested in

[normal mountain]

Cannon lore?
They have lore for the Zarr?
Nice!

[proper barn]

Lmao

Canon*

[north ferry]

Lol

[proper barn]

Yeah grinner cannon used by the kuva grinner in the kuva fortress that then gets upgraded so the kuva liches can use it more better.

[feral cape]

Most lore is canon the only time it's not is when it gets retconned

Like uhhhh idr any retcons

[proper barn]

Also if you just started playing and you aren't even at like the second dream yet I can see how it looks like we have very little lore.

[dense lark]

It get more in depth further in the game?

[proper barn]

I think the old frost lore was that he had the Infested frozen with him and that's where the Infested came from when it resurfaced that was removed from the game. They added more stuff to the original Infested quest but idk if I would call that a retcon or just DE filling in a obvious plot home.

[strange plinth]

a lot
the first half of the star chart doesn't have much lore, but as you get farther into the game, it gets much more story-intensive

[normal mountain]

Was wondering where that came from

[feral cape]

What

[proper barn]

This isn't a recton though it's just a addition.

SHrug.

What do we think retcons mean?

[strange plinth]

not even really a plot hole or a retcon. just rephrased some stuff to make it more clear
in regards to Once Awake

[normal mountain]

Considering Varzia says some Warframes weren't originally Primed, I'd call that a retcon

[dire mountain]

It got immediately contradicted with Varzia yeah

[proper barn]

Is that a retcon? It's mostly just Ballas saying that. Ballas always lies.

Like did people really think all the gen 1 frames actually went mad?

Instead of them just not being loyal enough?

[vital gorge]

I thought the "madness" was just the Tenno rebelling

[normal mountain]

Considering what the Orokin were like, I'd believe it

[strange plinth]

gen 1s weren't tenno-controlled
separate incident

[vital gorge]

ohhh

[proper barn]

Gen 1 was warframes without tenno. It probably was just them rebelling

[dire mountain]

Kullervo existed before the Tenno so yeah

[proper barn]

Maybe.

I don't know if the logs mean before the tenno came back and controlled warframes or the return of the Zariman.

[feral cape]

Kullevero himself comments on the madness

[proper barn]

Well warden

[feral cape]

You witnessed the slaughter as the Orokin eradicated your defective, demented brothers and sisters... and did nothing to aid them, choosing to tremble in your cowardly seclusion. A traitor twice over. Kullervo, bloody-handed, I charge you with Cowardice.

[strange plinth]

thanks for finding that i was not going to explain it well enough

[dire mountain]

Id consider "arrival" to mean when the zariman returned

[proper barn]

This is the Warden saying this. Also it paints kullervo as a terrible person/frame.

[feral cape]

The warden is kullevero

[proper barn]

So like who KNOWS

[dire mountain]

There's also espionage

[proper barn]

Literally untrue.

[feral cape]

The warden can only.know what kullevero knows

[proper barn]

It sounds like Ballas. Now is it based on his emotions? Probably.

[feral cape]

The warden is manifested from kullevero it can only know what kullevero knows

[proper barn]

But like It uses Ballas voice and his like hatred of Kullevro.

[normal mountain]

It's Kullervo's Conceptual Embodiment of Ballas iirc

[proper barn]

But it's his self hatred.

[strange plinth]

kullervo likely CE'd the warden in some capacity. Ballas is the Warden, but the Warden is Kullervo

[feral cape]

Thats not the point kullevero says his own siblings are demented and defective

Thats what he knows

[proper barn]

But are they? I don't know if this is a reliable narrator.

[feral cape]

He was literally there

[dire mountain]

Treason seems to mean the return of the zariman.
Espionage seems to refer to the weaponization of the Tenno

[feral cape]

He saw it

[normal mountain]

It's reliable enough in that it tells us what Kullervo did wrong (or so he thinks)
I wouldn't take it as gospel, but it shouldn't be discarded entirely

[proper barn]

I agree.

[onyx compass]

Emotions can cloud one's memories

[proper barn]

His own hatred of himself here is him not helping them.

[feral cape]

Why would him not liking himself make him say his siblings are demented and defective

[proper barn]

So like where they really defective and demented? If he feels bad he didn't helo?

[normal mountain]

Honestly, some of this reads like Ballas himself said this to Kullervo at one point

[dire mountain]

The Warden is conceptually embodied by kullervo but everything is based on Ballas. Maybe kullervo just CE'd how ballas would think

[normal mountain]

And Kullervo just... took it on

[normal mountain]

You know, the Void can do some funky stuff
I'd believe that it took his memories of Ballas and was able to fill in enough blanks to make an identical copy

[strange plinth]

ballas would be the kind of guy to read out the crimes of kullervo before tossing kullervo in the void
it isn't impossible

[dire mountain]

His guilt taking the form of his prosecutor, checks out

[normal mountain]

Oh, yeah
Definitely

[north ferry]

Retcon as in retroactive continuity isn't inherently a bad thing. It does also include things like filling in plot holes.

[onyx compass]

replaying the convictions over and over in his head doesn't seem too out of character for him either

[feral cape]

Kullevero was on the run for a while i severely doubt he ever got letters from ballas saying "dude your siblings went insane it's crazy"

[dire mountain]

Thats usually what guilt does yeah

[dire mountain]

It would be funny however

[normal mountain]

I wouldn't put it past Ballas to sneak some sort of communication device in Kullervo's head just to telepathically taunt him

tbh, there isn't much I'd put past Ballas anymore

[strange plinth]

he did try to eat the sun using praghasa

[dire mountain]

Its possible (seen it with umbra) but idk how plausible

[onyx compass]

Also at like what point did he get turned into a warframe?

[proper barn]

Who?

[dire mountain]

Kullervo? Long before any of his crimes if I had to guess

[onyx compass]

Yeah Kullervo

[proper barn]

Umbra it's mid old war after the tenno had been put in warframes.

Close to the end of it even.

[old dome]

...frost had lore???

frost prime had a narrated prime trailer????

[proper barn]

He doesn't even die as umbra until we take the moon out of the Void. Like he's stuck In his moon prison for as long as it's in the Void.

[proper barn]

No this was I think an old description. Now I could be incorrect.

[old dome]

im surprised he didnt break out sooner & just. roamed lua......

was he in cryo??

also who didnt have a narrated prime trailer, that isnt khora & octavia iirc??

[normal mountain]

Garuda

[dire mountain]

Garuda lore never

[normal mountain]

Garuda has no Prime trailer, and no base frame lore

[proper barn]

He was in a sealed chamber not in cryo at all you can see partly why he's so upset.

That you go into. It only opens up cuz of MOON QUAKES after it came out of the void.

[normal mountain]

Have to find it, but iirc the rewards for Vox Solaris say that Smokefinger literally just found her blueprint in a bush

😭

[proper barn]

Like he's the only warframe with a memory (a single one about him killing his son) and he has been active and never like asleep or anything for over 1000 years

[strange plinth]

"Smokefinger found this blueprint embedded in a tangle of Vallis fungi years ago. Didn't know what to do with it until you came along. I want you to have it; it's the least we can do to thank you."
yea, that's it exactly

[old dome]

...yeah if the infestation didnt drive him insane, that memory being the only thing he knows would have made him go mad. in both meanings of the word.

[normal mountain]

And for such an interesting frame, that is all we have on her
"She was found in a bush"

[old dome]

ballas really just. warframed the poor guy, had him kill his own son, & stuck him inside a pod for centuries.

[strange plinth]

yep.

[old dome]

........so bps are just. actually printed on carbon papers??

like architectural designs??

[strange plinth]

to some affect, yeah
probably not paper, per se, but in some physical device

[old dome]

i shouldnt be surprised considering the actual size of mods...

& that somehow they exist in lore too, not just for gameplay reasons.

[vital gorge]

I like to think the bps for Warframes are on some kind of blinged-out removable hard drive deal

[swift sentinel]

Weapon Mods are probably closer to their description than a homogeneous object. Like Bladed Rounds are probably just literally that

Warframe mods do seem a little more esoteric

[tall echo]

No, mods in general just exist as that. Mods.

We even know who makes (some of) them. Cephalon samodeus, the ominous triangle that haunts every riven roller's nightmares

[vital gorge]

Oooh look at the fancy triangle Cephalon, square not good enough for them eh?

[dire mountain]

Drusus is an entire face made up of circles

[tall echo]

Simaris and cy are also not square

Suda is just. Strange

Melica is a U

[humble sierra]

I'd like to think the big mod things that drop are just containers for the actual mod 'chip' or something

Like Nintendo Switch game cards being in boxes 10 times their size

[glossy quarry]

I wonder which came first actually. Cause, correct me if I'm wrong on this or got the wrong idea, but isn't what Excal Umbra is AFTER the time of 1999? Or? Specifically the whole infection thing or whatever that made warframes the way they are?

or is 1999 in a whole different setting like the Drifter?

Idk how all that correlates with each other.

Or what the time frames look like

Cause if I recall Excal and all the other warframes were people that got infected and turned into what they are now or something like that

I forget the exact lore

[hollow blaze]

Albrecht brought the Helminth with him via time travel. The Protoframes are different from the Ballas-made Warframes, as far as i understand it.

[proper barn]

Umbra is one of the last warframes.

[glossy quarry]

Oh is it?

I thought stuff like the primes and Umbra were the original Orokin Warframes before being nerfed

[glossy quarry]

Different how? Like, different reality?

Or like different way of coming to be

[hollow blaze]

Changing the timeline itself. With the whole eternalism stuff, it's implied ths is a new reality.

[glossy quarry]

So it’s like the Drifter

Different reality stuff

[hollow blaze]

Exactly. Also, remember, Drifter can use their Duviri control in 1999 to set the loop. Can't do that in the 'present' Origin System where operator came from.

[glossy quarry]

So Drifter is ALSO from that reality?

[hollow blaze]

Kind of? I think of it like this. Operator/present is the main branch, drifter's OG reality of Zariman, Duviri, 1999 are all smaller branches that stick off it.

[glossy quarry]

Ah. And Drifter can travel between those branches

[hollow blaze]

That's how I've wrapped my head around it

[glossy quarry]

Along with the original reality

Aka ours

Or, the Operator’s

[hollow blaze]

Exactly, branches on a tree. And like other trees exist but getting there takes a LOT more effort, but branches on your tree can be climbed up/down.

[north ferry]

So uhhh

[hollow blaze]

I am extremely oversimplifying it, but this is how I've got it logicked out in my mind. It's VERY confusing.

[glossy quarry]

Makes sense. So in the 1999 reality instead of Helminth Frames they’re more like super soldiers

In a sense

Still people, but enhanced

[strange plinth]

they're still helminth, the strain was likely modified to slow down rather than fully convert them as fast as possible

[glossy quarry]

Ah. So basically they are Helminth but still… in control

Of who they are

[woven coyote]

emphasis on slow down, albrecht mentions they will still turn eventually

[glossy quarry]

For now.

[strange plinth]

yeah. entrati needed them for that time and no longer than that. that's why he's 100% ok with them dying in the reactor

[hollow blaze]

I guess so. The question I have is why each individual turned into each Warframe they were. Did Albrecht choose which frames? Or did the helminth supplant what it had memorized from the frames?

[north ferry]

Undetermined I believe

[hollow blaze]

Like why is Aoi a Mag, instead of say a Mesa?

[strange plinth]

albrecht probably chose who would become what, though i don't think there's confirmation on that anywhere

[glossy quarry]

That’s… a sad existence. Honestly I think I’d rather be completely converted instead of enduring the pain of slowly transforming as my body slowly loses control of itself.

[woven coyote]

i mean certain convos do mention batches

like nova batch cyte batch etc

[north ferry]

Because thematic reasons probably.

[woven coyote]

cant remember the exact ones

[glossy quarry]

Also genuine question, do y’all think a Rhino Protoframe would be possible?

[humble sierra]

Debatable, I think the whole point was that he had to be as villainous as possible so the Drifter would side against him, with the Hex, so the Drifter could learn to love them. The Kalymos sequence wasn't complete until that.

[glossy quarry]

Cause I really want a brick craphouse of a man to play as

[woven coyote]

possible ? yeah, likely to happen? not really sure but i would say not likely

[strange plinth]

i mean, it just needs albrecht to have messed around a little more

[humble sierra]

They said they're moving on from 1999, for now, but there's probably more to do in the future, i.e. Rusalka. Remember, Protoframes are pretty resource heavy

[north ferry]

There's probably more to it than that but yeah, that's the vibe.

[strange plinth]

50/50 imo
he's definitely playing it up to make the drifter care about the hex, but he's also shown to be like this before.

[humble sierra]

Lorewise though, there's an ambiguous amount of Protoframes running around

[strange plinth]

arguably, the only one there 100% can't be is protea
because then the kaya chat would have to change

[glossy quarry]

I think he’s just morally ambiguous in general

[hollow blaze]

Since Albrecht is basically weaponizing the 'chosen operator' into a love gun, he likely had the Helminth process slowed down massively to force sympathy from us for them.

[north ferry]

That's... not eternalism as i understand it.

[north ferry]

Don't know if that is explicit or even implied.

[hollow blaze]

Like i said, it's how I've got it working in my head. It's def likely NOT intended, but it's the visual that works for me.

[glossy quarry]

I think it is now that Relog said it out loud. Timelines have branches, after all.

And those branches can have more branches.

[strange plinth]

we don't really have a branching timeline though

[hollow blaze]

It's more the climbing a tree simile I was using rather then branching in a clasic sense. All these timelines are close enough together, or similar enough, that they can be reached. Because there's just so dang many, each 'cluster' is like a tree.

You can reach one timeline from anther even if the choices are different, it's reachable like climbing up or down a tree.

[strange plinth]

closest are like
splits? i guess? but they always rejoin
drifter and operator split, but drifter's side degrades into just duviri, and sorta still just merges back into operator's side

[hollow blaze]

It's tough to understand, so I just visualise it as climbing a tree and going from branch to branch.

Don't really know how else to describe it

[north ferry]

I'm going to have to go check up on it more but that's just kinda standard multiversal concepts.

[north ferry]

I think this is why it's the Duviri Paradox

[silk atlas]

It's not, it's just a play on the twin paradox (which isn't even a paradox)

[feral cape]

No

[lean garden]

Drifter and eleanor both identify 1999 as being part of the operator's timeline

[rich glacier]

i must have missed some of the lore, does warframe potrayed in a story move on their own or a tenno controlling them

[glossy quarry]

Depends on which one.

[rich glacier]

"Kullervo killed an Orokin in an attempt of gaining the favor and admiration of an Executor"

[glossy quarry]

All the original standard warframes can't I don't think.

or, well, they COULD, but now they can't

[glossy quarry]

If I recall correctly they COULD for a while but can't now

[proper barn]

Gay rights and Gay wrongs we support them all.

[glossy quarry]

They're more like mechanical flesh suits now

[rich glacier]

i see

[proper barn]

what?

What are you saying Scout? kullevro is a gen 1 Warframe.

so fully sentient.

[glossy quarry]

I was talking about how this guy asked if Warframes could move by themselves

I was saying some can still

[proper barn]

some can yeah.

[glossy quarry]

but most are now just flesh suits nowadays

[proper barn]

Umbra is actually one of the last frames made

it's just it was a specific punishment.

Stalker is a frame that can move. Jade was until she died.

[glossy quarry]

Ok so wait. Did Umbra come BEFORE or AFTER base Excal?

I'm confused there. I thought it was like a Prime

[proper barn]

AFTER

[glossy quarry]

Huh.

So wait, why is Umbra so strong comparatively then? I thought the older ones were supposed to be stronger

[proper barn]

WAY AFTER. He gets turned into Umbra cuz he like tries to turn in ballas for working with Hunhow and telling Hunhow the weakness of the frames

The tenno. How would that be possible is he was before base excal?

[glossy quarry]

Oh so our bond with Excal Umbra makes it stronger than the original Excal?

[proper barn]

I think it's more he's been trapped for 1000 years in the moon

and hes' really really mad about it.

[glossy quarry]

So... he's Warframe Kratos

gets stronger the angrier he is.

[proper barn]

No that mad.

like okay you know the starting Cinematic

where Ballas goes like "oh That won't bring him back" and Umbra gets blasted?

[glossy quarry]

Yeah I remember it. Lotus tried to execute him or something

against her will

[proper barn]

he actually dies there cuz it's why we see bits of him everywhere when we go there.

[glossy quarry]

and then we rebuild him and bring him back.

and he tries to murk us

[proper barn]

that happens like Right after the second dream and Atopsy Prologe.

Cuz Umbra was awake in the MOON till we bring it back into real space.

[glossy quarry]

Ooooh ok.

So basically Umbra was exiled on the moon and then got vaporized and that's why it seemed older then it was when, in fact, it's a new Warframe.

Like, one of the newest ones.

That uses Excal as a base.

[proper barn]

But yeah He was turned into Umbra near the very end of the Old war. cuz He tries to Stop Ballas Betraying the Orokin by telling hunhow the Weakness of the frames is the Tenno.

[glossy quarry]

So he's a new gen warframe with Prime level stats

and 1st gen sentience

[proper barn]

well he was left with 1 burning memory

as a punishment. that memory being him killing his own son.

he is this way cuz Ballas just hated him that much.

[rich glacier]

how many warframe generation are there

[proper barn]

We don't know.

We just say like Gen 1 and then other gens.

[swift sentinel]

Pre- and post- Tenno is probably more accurate

[proper barn]

gen 1 being the sentient ones the orokin killed that weren't polited by tenno.

Yeah. We just use Gen 1 to basiclly be Pre and then everything else is post.

[glossy quarry]

So is he not fully sentient though? He fights beside us on his own?

[proper barn]

No he is?

[glossy quarry]

you said "well" earlier like I was wrong.

As far as I know Excal Umbra is a post-tenno frame with pre-tenno attributes

like prime stats and sentience

[proper barn]

yes.

[glossy quarry]

Ok cool.

[proper barn]

We are able to control him cuz of what Ballas says.

[glossy quarry]

I forget what he says.

[proper barn]

basiclly empathy is our super power.

but I love the ful qoute.

[glossy quarry]

also tbf I don't think Umbra would let us control it if it didn't want to be controlled. It literally resists us out the gate and then tries to choke us

safe to say if it didn't like us, we wouldn't be able to control it at all

but since we went on that whole quest to prove we're safe to be around

he decided to work with us

It does make me wonder what Umbra does when we aren't actively using it though.

Cause it's still sentient so it has to pass the time somehow

[strange plinth]

wandering around the orbiter or drifter camp, based on jade shadows

[proper barn]

--We had created monsters we couldn't control. We drugged them, tortured them, eviscerated them... We brutalized their minds... but it did not work. Until they came. And it was not their force of will - not their Void devilry - not their alien darkness... it was something else. It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing--And take away its pain. @glossy quarry

[glossy quarry]

Well tbf I don't think we took it's pain away. That pain will never truly go away. It's a father who killed his child. That pain will always be there.

I think we more-so soothed Umbra then outright stopped it.

[proper barn]

I know but it's dealing with that Memory.

[glossy quarry]

Yeah exactly. We helped him cope

[proper barn]

And that qoute is really really cool.

[restive river]

We help them deal with their pain, in whatever way we can

[glossy quarry]

yeah .

[glossy quarry]

And then help them channel it at the enemy.

[restive river]

Which
You literally choose how you take away his pain in the quest lol

[glossy quarry]

yeah.

[restive river]

To an extent yeah
We help them so they can rest while we do warcrimes

Which
During the new war we had to cause the Orokin
But after we wake up we do it to help those we can

[glossy quarry]

So basically while we're in control we ARE Umbra, but when we aren't, the original person inside takes over.

Forgot the name of the guy

you know who I mean though.

[proper barn]

You don't get a name.

you just get "umbra"

[glossy quarry]

Okay well point is

when we're not piloting, Umbra takes control again and assists us

when we're piloting, we are Umbra.

... Where does Umbra's original self go?

[restive river]

It’s more it’s both of us, alongside one another

[glossy quarry]

does it just take a nap?

[proper barn]

maybe.

[glossy quarry]

or is it still active in there?

[restive river]

Well the rest of the frames we use have their consciousness suppressed so we may pilot them, which may be due to the transference bolt to some extent
So
When we take control of Umbra, due to him having sapience, he can boot us if he wants to iirc but we are in control

[glossy quarry]

Idk if y'all watched TFS but I'm now imagining him just doing what TFS did with Piccolo and having Nail just talking in the background in our head or something

[restive river]

Like look at the protoframes, we can use transference on them and they can boot us but both our minds are active and aware

We control their bodies
They still control their minds

[restive river]

Jade talks about her experience with her tenno

We’re kinda just there, we don’t suppress them, they’re active and can boot us if they’re strong enough

Like Umbra boots us
Arthur boots us
Cause it’s not fun when someone hops into your head and tries to control your body while you’re still fully aware

Which is why the Orokin suppressed the minds of the warframes at all

[proper barn]

to be fair Jade just helps a Crying Kid and then pretends to be controlled basiclly.

[restive river]

Yeah

[glossy quarry]

But in Umbra's case he was eventually cool with both of us effectively sharing a body once he realized we're a friend and ally.

I haven't played 1999 yet so idk about Arthur

[restive river]

She wasn’t being suppressed, her tenno was just kinda there and she saw they were in pain so stepped up for their safety

[restive river]

Go do that

[glossy quarry]

The demo thing? or is it later in the storyline

[restive river]

Also cause we help him with his trauma, show him he isn’t alone and assist directly with that pain

[glossy quarry]

rn I need to do Jade and Zariman so.

[restive river]

Later

The 1999 quest is called The Hex
It’s after Lotus Eaters which is after Whispers

[glossy quarry]

Yeah so he realized we're a friend and decided to work with us and even fight with us when we aren't controlling him. Which I find fun.

[restive river]

Ye

[feral cape]

What gives you the idea he's super strong

[glossy quarry]

Mainly in game stats.

He has higher stats then base Excal, implying he is stronger then Excal.

he functions like a prime

so.

I didn't say he was necessarily SUPER STRONG. Just more-so that he's strong compared to the base version

I'm speaking lore wise btw. I know he's not that much stronger then base Excal, but the stats just pointed to him being stronger then the base one.

[feral cape]

At most he's just more experienced

[restive river]

He has the same stats as excal prime, aside from the passive

[feral cape]

Also like

It doesn't make sense to put the priming effort into a guy your gonna put in a box

[restive river]

Eh, Ballas was pretty extra
If nothing else Umbra was special physically because he was designed similarly to a prime, prime stats prove that alongside his appearance

Like the whole Umbra aesthetic isn’t seen beyond Umbra and like
I think you can see it in the Lunaro arenas funnily enough

[rich glacier]

whats with the huge bald statue in sanctum anatomica

[restive river]

Did you not pay attention during whispers?

[rich glacier]

english is not my main language, so pretty much i missed some of the story

[restive river]

Those are the vessels, made by Albrecht Entrati for us to combat the Man in the Wall.
They’re made from a combination of the Protoframes humanity, the Helminth strain (what makes Warframes) and the Grey strain (makes stuff big)

Hope that helps :)

[humble sierra]

They're meant to be weapons against Man in the Wall, somehow, we have yet to see them in proper use

[restive river]

Except we did when he tried to use one against us

But yeah we have yet to use one for actual combat

[feral cape]

Yea he put a special bolt in i seriously doubt ballas took all the extra steps to prime umbra if he just wanted to stick umbra in a box on the moon

The extra stats are just because excal prime isn't obtainable

[restive river]

I mean he clearly did something special for him
He isn’t your garden variety excalibur in appearance

Which him having that appearance and the prime stats could literally just be because he was directly made by Ballas, he is of Orokin design the same way other primes are without being a prime

[drowsy saddle]

Guren Lagann goofy ahh bossfight, giant mechs throwing galaxies at each other

[feral cape]

Sttgl is larger than the observable universe

[drowsy saddle]

The Drill that pierces the Heavens!

[restive river]

I think we have a tennogen staff skin with an animated drill

[glossy quarry]

Yeah that's what I think personally. And if we wanna go even further, in the chinese version of the game specifically it's called Excalibur Umbra PRIME. I know in the game it's different from the Umbra we have and it replaced Excal Prime in their founders edition thing but I think it does kinda prove Umbra's at least INSPIRED by the Primes in Ballas' design.

Because it's known as Umbra PRIME overseas

so bare minimum I'd say it's FOUNDATION is that of a Prime.

but is different in many ways to one, making it it's own thing.

it even has the same sentience passive as the one we have

[restive river]

Idk if I’d say Umbra Prime is like
Even canon
But yeah Umbra is an analog to a Prime

[glossy quarry]

It definitely isn't but I'm using it as a comparison. It has the same passive and stats, the only difference is it has radial blind, not roar.

[restive river]

Ye

[glossy quarry]

so it's basically excal umbra but instead of the roar it has blind

so it makes me think that, yeah, Excal is at the very least based on the Primes.

and their designs and stats.

It's not a direct Prime, of course. But it's definitely built off the foundation of them.

[restive river]

Iirc excal prime was like
The first so Ballas just copied his own homework and was like “oh I’m calling this umbra, lemme slap some U designs in there, give em a scarf and make him darker, perfect!”

[glossy quarry]

Okay to be fair the scarf is fire.

[restive river]

It is fire

[drowsy saddle]

i wonder if Umbra had any sway over his design? ala mirage

[proper barn]

Umbra is like peak design.

[glossy quarry]

I will stand by that. I wish there was a cosmetic like it for every frame lol

[proper barn]

no he was just really mad.

[glossy quarry]

It's like edgy but not TOO edgy.

[restive river]

He likely didn’t
If he did tho it was the scarf

[swift sentinel]

In the concept art, the Dax Umbra was has some U decorations. So it's probably Ballas just being a petty jerk again.

[restive river]

The fact arthur can use the scarf too is so good

[drowsy saddle]

his final defiant act, to out rizz the rizzless

[restive river]

Source?

[glossy quarry]

... Wait he can

[proper barn]

yes

GO FORTH MY CHILDERN

[restive river]

Yup!
He’s the only one of the protos that can access their prime accessories

[proper barn]

GO SCARF

[drowsy saddle]

DE please give me a 75% coupon, i plan on buying the entire protoframe line

[glossy quarry]

I think it's this

[restive river]

Which makes me kinda upset we can’t have primed protos for the others but
Arthur with a scarf is fire so I’ll let it slide

[glossy quarry]

Or this

[proper barn]

this is a dax from

wat's it called.

Duviri i'm pretty sure.

[restive river]

I mean thats just his portrait in game

[drowsy saddle]

exellent salsa dip hat tbh

[glossy quarry]

I can't find the concept art hellbore was talkin about

[swift sentinel]

There's a different picture showing the helmet on the wiki, can't link because mobile

[restive river]

Wiki ):

[proper barn]

hey

[glossy quarry]

Idk if the wiki's reliable. Apparently it's being griefed rn

[proper barn]

new Wiki isn't bad. I stand by it.

[swift sentinel]

The new wiki, it's official DE art

[proper barn]

Like Orokin Archives is better but i like the New wiki.

[glossy quarry]

What new wiki?

[restive river]

Fandom wiki bad
New wiki better

[proper barn]

yeah i can agree with that.

[restive river]

Link the page

[proper barn]

Orokin archives is still the best but i like the new wiki.

[glossy quarry]

wiki.warframe or whatever?

[proper barn]

yeppers.

[drowsy saddle]

fandom wiki is being used as a grafiti wall for memes, actually useful is official wiki

[proper barn]

OH this.

[drowsy saddle]

what is this? an image for ants?

[proper barn]

Here you go.

https://wiki.warframe.com/w/Excalibur/Umbra#/media/File:Lucas-hug-umbradax.jpg

[swift sentinel]

That's the one

[restive river]

Yeah so maybe the whole Umbra design was just born from his helmet looking like that and Ballas just ran with it when designing his torture-excal variant

[drowsy saddle]

i wonder if the size of the curve flare indicates the Dax's rank

[restive river]

More Ballas mocking people he views below him

[strange plinth]

i could see it
like a brand more than a status symbol, at that point

[proper barn]

also a lot of the like

Umbra Items use the Same U in it.

[glossy quarry]

I read this and had to RESIST the urge to make a certain type of joke despite it being right there cause I'd probably get banned for it lmao

anywho

[proper barn]

I think it does. I think umbra is the highest rank we see. with Teshin being the second highest.

[drowsy saddle]

what if the Umbral sign is the Lua Cross?

[restive river]

Branding him to forever be a dax and the monster that killed his own son

[proper barn]

Could be

[drowsy saddle]

now i feel slightly bad for replacing his helmet with the Dex version

[glossy quarry]

Ballas is a piece of crap and deserves every bit of the damnation he gets

[restive river]

There is also umbra symbols on some of the lunaro tiles iirc

[proper barn]

Yes he also blames everyone that's not himself.

[restive river]

I think its the mars and lua ones specifically

Those predate umbra tho

[glossy quarry]

I couldn't get the dex excal skin cause the mission wouldn't work 😭 It was broken that entire time

[restive river]

Agreed

[glossy quarry]

it kept softlocking.

I'm still mad about that ngl

I also missed the Rhino Dex skin so that's saddening

[restive river]

It is morally and objectively right to go fight and honor Kullervo when his hold is available just to spite the void manifestation of Ballas’ form and guilt through Kullervo’s eyes

Purely to spite any piece of Ballas that remains

Also ofc to help Kullervo

[glossy quarry]

Funny thing is I often pick Excal Umbra the moment he's available in Duviri.

[drowsy saddle]

the dex helmet is immensely useful for my fashion cause im a broke boi without the right drip to make a "Prime" Umbra fashion

[glossy quarry]

I got one time where I was fighting Kullervo WITH Umbra

[swift sentinel]

Definitely an impressive commitment to making Ballas that awful

[restive river]

Sapient frame vs sapient frame!

[glossy quarry]

isn't the correct word sentient?

[drowsy saddle]

closest to good fashion for umbra is a dark sector esque infested look

[restive river]

I would complain that we didn’t get to kill him ourselves but the Lotus deserved it a bit more tbh

[restive river]

Means the same thing
I prefer sapient over sentient cause we have the sentient faction lol

[drowsy saddle]

Ballas farm gamemode when DE!?

[glossy quarry]

Now you got me wondering how Kullervo plays and if I'd like playing him. Hm.

[restive river]

He plays wonderfully

[glossy quarry]

what he do?

[restive river]

Kullervo’s only real crime was crushing on Ballas

[strange plinth]

de, bring ballas back so we can kill him again

[restive river]

Make all melee good
Teleport
Overguard

[glossy quarry]

So... teleporting melee rhino?

[restive river]

Maybe Wally will summon our old enemies for us to fight
In which case I will just kick Ballas in his [Death Orb]s and just keep walking

[drowsy saddle]

well he gives you crit chance at a 2:1 ratio of power strength

[restive river]

I guess?
I’m not familiar with Rhino personally, haven’t played him properly in years

[glossy quarry]

I remember I went into New War with Excal Umbra and when I got to fight Ballas he was over here TRYING to go ham on it lol

[restive river]

Last time I properly played Rhino was when the Index was the best credit farm I think

[glossy quarry]

Overshield spam that replaces shield gating basically.

you can just spam invuln with him using Iron Skin

[restive river]

Kullervo needs enemies for his overguard but yeah

[glossy quarry]

it's called skin gating lol.

[restive river]

His teleport and affinity for melees is wonderful

Like if you like red crits and melee then play Kullervo

[glossy quarry]

Is his teleport very mobile or is it like a short one

[restive river]

Very mobile

Probably the most mobile teleport

[glossy quarry]

How mobile we talkin? Like, Operator mobile?

or less?

[restive river]

Hold to go anywhere
Tap to go straight to an enemy

[restive river]

Instant

Bro got instant transmission heavy attacks iirc

[glossy quarry]

ok but can you spam tp through rooms lol

[restive river]

Maybe?

[drowsy saddle]

tbh i flip the tap/hold on kullervo, i use his 1 just for the CC

[restive river]

I know his teleport is his helminth too so you can slap it on other frames

[glossy quarry]

he might be up my ally.

[drowsy saddle]

i have enough movement tools already

[restive river]

Same
I love teleporting around

[glossy quarry]

the bad part is I'd have to grind Kullervo AGAIN

[strange plinth]

25m at max rank if i'm reading this correctly, i assume affected by range as well

[restive river]

Yeahh, I have been meaning to do that for a while

[drowsy saddle]

literally just keep pointing it at the ground just so i don't accidentally yeet myself into a group of eximus

[restive river]

Kullervo is very fun :]

[glossy quarry]

on the bright side I do like Duviri.

[glossy quarry]

Counterpoint: Slam Build.

I will gladly teleport myself into a group of eximus and watch them tank my ENTIRE Sampotes slam

[restive river]

I do too
I just played it
Way too much when it came out and I typically spend 2 hours there

Oh if you like slam melees then def get the Coda Mire when you reach 1999!

[strange plinth]

i spent an hour and a half getting all decrees one time
highly recommend doing that at least once
its grindy and takes a while but fleet footed is the funniest thing at max

[restive river]

I haven’t seen a weapon delete enemies like it does in a while lol

[glossy quarry]

But... Sampotes my beloved.

[restive river]

I too love slampotes

[glossy quarry]

You mean the one where mods make you speedy?

or, decrees, whatever

[strange plinth]

ye

[restive river]

I use 2 slam builds
Slampotes and Coda Mire
Idek if it’s meta lol

[glossy quarry]

There's two I like to run. The defense one and the speed one

if you get both in the same one

Chef's kiss. You're a speedy tank.

I always go for the defense one though for one reason. I have a habit of taking those decrees that sacrifice my hp for damage

so being able to shrug off hits because of how many decrees I have is nice

[glossy quarry]

Have you tried combining that with a double, triple, quadruple or whatever jump btw?

it's INSANITY.

[strange plinth]

yup

[glossy quarry]

I love when I get that speed decree buffed to all hell and can just roadrunner meep meep away from any situation

lol

[plucky compass]

quick one, if a reliquary drive is required to make the trip to tau (and potentially to travel faster than light in the first place) does this mean that besides our railjacks and potentially all solar rails in the origin system, the sentients that first went to tau also had reliquary drives? or did they just brute force it just like what seemed to be the case with ballas' flagship in orbit of the sun in the new war?

[proper barn]

Not required

Just would take a lot of years.

[restive river]

The sentients took the long way due to their weakness to the void
The plan was for the Zariman to utilize the reliquary drive to make one big jump which had never been done before

We are constantly going ftl speeds on relatively small scales within the origin system via our railjack and the rails iirc
But it wouldn’t be possible for our railjack to go to Tau due to it not being made for such a jump and the rails require a rail to present to get from point A to B

Yonta does know how we could get to Tau, possibly in a single jump, but the Zariman, the only ship built for such a jump, is plugging a void hole

All Pregahsa did in the new war was make void portals, not jumps to Tau
She was eating the sun to make the portal

[woven coyote]

Yeah wasnt just a flagship it was a whole sentient

[swift sentinel]

Remind me, but didn't the Sentients build a solar rail to Tau on their way there, but destroyed it as the opening action of the Old War?

[proper barn]

They built the half in tau and The origin system built half of it in The origin system. Hunhow destroyed the Origin system half at the very end of the war as part of the Plan to kill all the orokin and then all the tenno.

@swift sentinel also in the mag prime codex you can see how like a Orokin Invasion of Tau went lmao.

Reminder the main force we are VSing is all from 1 Sentient (hunhow) and his Kids. Also He is Wounded by the Void. The Sentients in Tua would be unharmed by the Void and actually like a full might of the tau empire. Like we where basiclly Losing to a Expeditionary Force like that had fully invaded like It was like Hannibal IS OVER THE APLS AND AT THE DOOR.

[stiff fable]

No that's not true. We don't know how many Sentients were involved with the war and we don't know all their provenance

[proper barn]

All the ones we know

are all related to Hunhow.

[stiff fable]

Plains Sentient

[proper barn]

Except that one lmao.

[stiff fable]

Was not

Also the Archons weren't

But we don't know what their deal was

[proper barn]

The archons seem to be like Kids of HUNHOW?

[stiff fable]

Either way that's five Sentients not part of the family

It seems like the Archons were the Lords of Tau

[proper barn]

ehhhh

Beast lords of Tau is like werid also we don't know how much of Pazuuls dialog is the ram and how much is Erra.

[stiff fable]

We know they weren't related to Hunhow though

[proper barn]

Do we?

[stiff fable]

Yeah

[woven coyote]

Probably not
Pazuul is one of the archons and he puts the "lords of tau" above himself

[proper barn]

I feel like they might be? but idk Pazuul is werid.

[stiff fable]

Lotus mentions that Nira got into her brother's head

If Nira was also family it would have come up

[proper barn]

idk.

pazuul and the beast lords ARE REALLY REALLY WERID.

[stiff fable]

Also Hunhow makes pretty clear that they're not like Erra during TNW

[proper barn]

Anyway My point was

that like GREATER tau.

[woven coyote]

Erra
But the line about lords of tau is after the ram

[proper barn]

would be a UNIMAGINABLE foe.

Also they are so far removed from the war.

[stiff fable]

It seems pretty likely that Tau's collapsed somehow

[woven coyote]

Or maybe they moved on who knows

[proper barn]

more than all of the origin system.

[woven coyote]

The went the long way once they can probably do it again
Like to another place

[proper barn]

I think they just don't care about it as much as hunhow does.

[stiff fable]

It's mentioned that Tau's been dark since the Old War

[proper barn]

Yeah I think they just don't care.

Like the Solar Rail went down they stopped being invaded.

[stiff fable]

No even if they didn't care there'd be SOMETHING

[proper barn]

Like why would they care anymore?

[woven coyote]

Well the solar rails were broken

[proper barn]

it's been over 1000 years.

[stiff fable]

That's just it

[proper barn]

and they have heard nothing.

I think when we see Tau they won't be like the sentients we know at all.

[stiff fable]

It takes decades for light to travel from Tau to the Origin System

But they haven't even seen the aftermath of the battles reach the Origin System

Which means that something freaky happened

[proper barn]

I think it could be very very intresting.

Cuz all we know from it is the orokin invasions we saw they immediatly got BLASTED.

[dire mountain]

I think it would be a little funny if most of Tau was just wanting to mind their own business

[proper barn]

i think that might be it.

I think they might not even care or remeber about us.

it would be really funny if they talk to us and go "oh yeah you where like random flies that stopped annoying us"

[raven urchin]

I think the Sentients from Tau will look like a mix between Duvirians and Sentients

[stiff fable]

It's almost certainly going to turn out that Bad Stuff happened

[dire mountain]

"Oh yeah I've heard stories about that. I didn't think you guys were real to be honest"

[stiff fable]

It's more likely going to be Sentient Mad Max

[proper barn]

I want like 2 waring sentient factions to be at it and we have to help them. maybe even get natah/lotus to lead them.

[stiff fable]

Even without Albrecht and Wally's involvement

Natah can't make the jump to Tau

[proper barn]

She can.

it would be fine.Also i think we will repair the solar rail.

not do a jump.

[stiff fable]

No she actually can't

The Solar Rail IS a jump

That's how the Sentients returned to the Origin System

It still burned out their reproductive functions and lobotomized Praghasa

And they were all inside Praghasa

[raven urchin]

I think it will be more of a "We evolved to be more than we would ever be being next to the creators"

I'll change what I said, the Tau Sentients are just light

[stiff fable]

Unlikely, because then there's no story

[raven urchin]

Exactly, there will never be a story on Tau, it will always be a distant dream always being teased

[dire mountain]

We really have nothing to go on other than Tau going completely dark comms wise

[stiff fable]

Albrecht went there. That means we're following.

[raven urchin]

He did? When?

[stiff fable]

End of 1999

Lettie talks about it during a KIM conversation if you're dating

[raven urchin]

Never gonna date so it will never be real

Joke aside, that's low of them to hide this important piece of lore on something totally on the side

[stiff fable]

Drifter: Tau. If that's where Entrati is headed, my Xipe Totec will follow him. And it's too important to let them have it.
Lettie: This Tau. This is where the... sentients were sent ¿no? This fake race made by fake gods the orokin
Drifter: Yeah, but then we never would have met. Or started dating. So... small upside?
Lettie: Jajaja sí Small upside But why? Why is this place so important that it will take you from me some day
Drifter: I'm not sure.

[raven urchin]

If it's not a theory but a confirmation it makes me pretty upset

[stiff fable]

Lettie: ¿Cómo qué? ¿Like what?
Drifter: "Merely framed Merely shaped they are called. There was no their mother, there was no their father."
Lettie: ¡¿QUÉ?! WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY?! WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT
Lettie: ¿POR QUÉ? why are creatures from the far future quoting ¿a los PUEBLOS ANTIGUOS? ¿Qué chingados está pasando ahora?
Drifter: Lettie you've lost me again. Back up.
Lettie: AGGHHHH this makes NO SENSE Those words are the words of the ancient people of Chichén Itzá. WHERE DID YOU GET THEM?!
Lettie: THOSE ARE FROM A SACRED TEXT OF LOS PUEBLOS ANTIGUOS "¡¿CÓMO Y POR QUÉ!?"
Drifter: I - I don't - I don't know. I have no clue. I'd only be guessing.
Lettie: I do not drink But if I did now would be the time Aaayyyy this nonsense gets worse and worse every day

[raven urchin]

Wow man, totally made me sweat a little

There's no confirmation that Entrati is in Tau, just that that's his target

[woven coyote]

I still think we wont literally head to tau

I think its entrati giving us a hint for something

[raven urchin]

Not in 10 years at least

[stiff fable]

Someone asked in a devshort earlier this year

Devs got extra cagey

[woven coyote]

The big thing for me is loid in one of the closing emails mentioning how albrecht likes cryptic instructions

[stiff fable]

Cryptic instructions is Albrecht shooting the Drifter to teach them radical empathy for the Hex

[woven coyote]

Taking "tau is in sight" at face value goes completely against loid's advice

[stiff fable]

Liking cryptic instructions doesn't mean everything they say is cryptic

Albrecht straight up tells you how to hold Wally off during Whispers

Build the statue get the Grimoire page proceed to 1999

[raven urchin]

If I had to say, this "merely framed, merely shaped, no mother, no father", imo is talking about Wally

[stiff fable]

Maybe, but the Sentients use the line back before Warframe's plot started

Allllll the way back in New Strange

[raven urchin]

Well, the void is something really old both in gameplay and lore

[stiff fable]

Not saying you're wrong but the Sentients have been Meso-American themed since before they came up with Wally

(They're quoting the Popol Vuh, and in context it's actually talking about the Tenno Reservoir)

[woven coyote]

Wonder if hunhow actually knew where the quote came from or if it was a bumblebee situation

[stiff fable]

That's what the second Lettie quote is about

[raven urchin]

He is an AI after all

[stiff fable]

She's asking that exact question

[raven urchin]

The next 1999 will be 1999 BC maybe ?

[stiff fable]

I'm actually curious what the next minor story update is going to be

This is the second time since TNW that we haven't known at all what was coming next

We got Veilbreaker and the Whispers/1999 tease last time

[raven urchin]

Actually anxious for Tennocon this year, more than normally

[stiff fable]

The next devstream is going to be mostly Techrot review, going by the event description

But they'll probably reveal Yareli Prime

There's just the two devstreams before Tennocon, right?

April and May?

[raven urchin]

It will probably have more, Tennocon will be only at July

[stiff fable]

Oh it's July this year? Then yeah there should be a minor update before then

[swift sentinel]

Prime reveal will probably be at PAX

[stiff fable]

Oh hey yeah, that means early May

Yeah no wonder the April devstream is going to be a content review, the next devstream is 15 days after that

[proper barn]

When is Pax?

They will reveal something at pax.

[stiff fable]

May 10th

And yeah they revealed Koumei at TGS so they'll probably do a reveal at PAX

[proper barn]

I would except a update revealed yeah.

[raven urchin]

Taking the Main Quest topics, recently got me thinking, maybe DE should link planet unlocking to quest, you see, a linear quest progression instead of the list of things to unlock the solar rail

And making the Specters have a similar amount of hp as the boss of that planet, to make it hard but not unbeatable to new players

[silk atlas]

The Solar Rails are (a half hearted attempt) to show the players the other systems in the game like Void Relics and stuff. I'd rather they actually bump up a lot of the requirements early on to incentivize checking things like upgrading mods out, if anything.

[raven urchin]

Those systems should be integrated in said quests

You see, take Vorz prize as an example, a tutorial of sabotage, spy, movement

Instead of a requirement of " do three spy missions" or " survive 10 minutes in defense"

Linking it to a quest would make it more palatable to new players imo

[stiff fable]

They actually lowered the requirements a few years back as part of the new player experience overhauls

The latest of those is no longer requiring a necramech for TNW

[raven urchin]

Each planet quest would give the blueprint of the frame of the planet and have lore of the boss, the same lore tied to old events that won't come back

[silk atlas]

Too much quest stuff already goes in one ear and out the other for players, having it just be something to do between questions to progress Junctions would be a bit better for knowledge retention

[silk atlas]

Major L on DE's part.

[stiff fable]

Fam I know six year vets who don't know who Ballas was after TNW

You can't force people to pay attention

[raven urchin]

I don't think so, grinding must be fun, and something you want to do, not a chore

[woven coyote]

They comented on how they basically have to, because the game keeps growing and new players wanna get to the currently advertised content

[raven urchin]

It's so sad seeing new players beat specters without lifting a hand, I remember when they were hard

[stiff fable]

Yeah. I actually agree that they need SOME early game friction

[silk atlas]

It's as much a chore to do as a requirement vs when you just want to, especially since the most you ever need to do is upgrade a mod once ever, instead of giving cool rewards like Endo caches to be like "hey here's some stuff to make progression smoother" like how they rewarded Dreamer's Bond nowadays.

[stiff fable]

Because it's incredibly easy to get put into a squad with people who don't know how to do a spy vault on Earth

[silk atlas]

You only need to level up a mod once ever with the requirements DE has set up.

[stiff fable]

This is actually one reason I'm glad for the pseudo exalt change

Like yes modding is still really arcane but it's better than needing outside information to understand every specific interaction between melee weapons and specific abilities

[raven urchin]

The thing is, nowadays the biggest salable thing in Warframe is its Lore, but to get there new players have to unlock a lot of nodes that make them give up on the game before getting even to Second Dream

[stiff fable]

Like, I still think nemeses need to be introduced via a quest that takes you through a whole lich hunt

[raven urchin]

Agreed so much

[woven coyote]

Eeeeeh maybe not lore
But yeah quest updates really get some big player influx

[stiff fable]

Create a new Kuva secondary that you only get at 60% from the quest

[raven urchin]

If Warframe had a linear quest progression, from quest to quest, it would speed up new players

[stiff fable]

I think the distributed quest system works fine but needs refinement

[silk atlas]

Finally. Kuva Stug.

[stiff fable]

The issue is that Warframe is a high knowledge base game

[raven urchin]

Not fine enough

[woven coyote]

People barely read instructions on the middle of the screen, much less listen to/ read lore

[raven urchin]

And a lot of boss lore is hiding into old events

[stiff fable]

I mean in the sense that they can add new content at multiple points in the game

Like how Koumei's Shrine Defense is an early game mode with additional content for if you've got Steel Path unlocked

[silk atlas]

If anything, all they need is a side quest after Vor's Prize that better introduces stuff like modding and farming for Rhino. That way the people who actually want to learn can go through those and get rewarded for checking them out, like how a lot of mobile games have beginner's quests for decent F2P gear.

[stiff fable]

I think the game needs a proper modding tutorial you need to do to reach Mars

If more players knew how to mod public games would be less frustrating

[raven urchin]

That could be a quest

[stiff fable]

Like hell introduce it as a quest that gives you 10K endo

[raven urchin]

Learn to mod so you can beat Lech Krill

[stiff fable]

Also Lech Kril needs a rework after Vor

[raven urchin]

We need a quest that explains why Vor keeps coming back after having it's body sliced in half

[silk atlas]

We already know that one, Janus Key

[raven urchin]

I know why, but I'm tired of explaining

[silk atlas]

He talks about it in his stupid long exposition

[stiff fable]

I can't believe the Janus Key is going to be plot relevant

[raven urchin]

If you take a step to think, that's kinda the first arc of the game

[stiff fable]

Like there's a non-zero chance we get a Murmur Vor at some point

[stiff fable]

Yeah it really is

[raven urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/finger-wag-justin-bieber-confident-song-nope-no-gif-17366024248084432562

[stiff fable]

Like I said that's something I really like

Though if we want to talk about dropped plot threads, Doctor Tengus anyone

[woven coyote]

Wally slaps vor into a giant murmur construct we fight with the vessels

[stiff fable]

Mfer re-released the infestation

[woven coyote]

And made ghouls

[stiff fable]

and made ghouls

[woven coyote]

Lol

Also he dressed vay hek in a victorian wide colar

[raven urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/haha-ha-apollonair-warframe-gif-5224832

[tall echo]

And uh. "Remade" vay kek

[raven urchin]

All streamers nowadays talk how second dream is amazing, and with reason, but there's some great deep lore and charisma on the bosses of Warframe first arc

Our beloved Tyl Regor

[stiff fable]

Yeah we have to introduce Tengus to our friends, Misters Smith and Wesson

[raven urchin]

Yeaaah where is our fight against doctor Tengus?

Sometimes I think Tyl Regor is the real Dr Tengus

[woven coyote]

Nah tengus has biological arms

Regor has prosthetics

[tall echo]

They also look completely different

[humble sierra]

Yeah I feel like the reason Devstream 186 and (seemingly) 187 are so lacking in terms of news is that they're saving big reveals for 188 at PAX. Assuming there'll be a major update in June like there was last year w/ Jade Shadows, this would also be a decent time to announce it.

[brittle siren]

We need Nef Anyo to be a boss so we can torture him

[quick wadi]

If we fought nef anyo it would have to be like that one BL3 DLC boss who's robot runs on money. So you beat him by draining his bank account.

[strange plinth]

index a billion times

[brittle siren]

Btw, why the treasurer still roaming Corpus ship? Is he work for Parvos or Nef?

[quick wadi]

He always talks about parvos so I assume them

[strange plinth]

parvos yeah
taking the crowns to parvos based on the dialog

[quick wadi]

WISE PARVOS

YOUR SACRED CROWNS

[stiff fable]

Funny enough, Nef and the treasurer have the same voice actor

[tall echo]

And regor

Which is impressive

[stiff fable]

That's some crazy range

[swift sentinel]

Justice for Derf Anyo

[tall echo]

Just fight sergeant, former nef anyo

[strange plinth]

sergeant is perfect as he is, de don't touch him

[brittle siren]

imagine DE make him have 10 phase

[graceful swan]

Fight John Prodman

Best boss in the game

[strange turtle]

They should add him to Soulframe

John Pikeman

Or maybe Lance Prodman

[graceful swan]

Sergeant should've killed Ballas

[charred patio]

wait
if I forget and start over
do I also have to redo the quest?

[sly ibex]

Hex? No, you don't have to redo the quest. Just the KIM conversations.

[charred patio]

oh, thank god

[winged flume]

The first time I fought Sergeant the cloaking caught me off guard, but then when I saw him again I spammed magnetize and chunked a few boltor rounds his way. Quick and painless.

This was 2020. Around about now, honestly.

[old dome]

.....do yall think video games exist in the origin system??

[stray gale]

they do...

"sorry! ordis will play with the volume off"

you can also just straight up buy some video games from simaris

and play them

[pliant tree]

[DE]Sully3

[DE]Sully

[graceful swan]

Ludoplex

[graceful swan]

And 1999 has 2 new ones

[restive river]

Which you can buy from Amir

[winged flume]

The child of Jade and Stalker, is Soirionus, because I said so.

[woven coyote]

Sirion

[prisma sundial]

Orius

[old dome]

sorion

siriusorion

orisirius

[normal mountain]

Orvius
wait, no, that was Teshin's glaive...

[jolly lake]

gamers i'm a bit confused on some Protoframes existance, like Cyte-09 and Excal

which came first? like, if Cindy got injected with the sniper-frame serum, it's bc Cyte (warframe) exists in the future right? but how's that possible?

or is the helminth serum random

[graceful swan]

Protoframes don’t predate Warframes

Albrecht took Helminth into the past

[jolly lake]

oh, makes sense then

[winged flume]

They technically predate Warframes, but in a different linear timeline, they're the future batch of Warframes, just made in the past; sort of predating the original run of frames.

[restive river]

The timeline is

Ballas makes warframes
Albrecht goes to 1999
Albrecht uses those samples to make the Protoframes
Protoframes fully transform and are either lost or go into hiding (only Flare/Temple is confirmed)

[restive river]

Ballas’ Warframes are the originals, there is no bootstrap paradox here

Over the course of history none of the Protos would have survived EXCEPT for Flare who becomes Temple and is the only confirmed case of this as they hide out on a comet that loops back near Pluto during the Night of the Naga drums.

There is nothing that hints at any of the Protos bootstrapping the Warframes into existence, as much of a liar Ballas is he did in fact create them.
He sucks, but he was very smart.

Heck the Warframes HAVE to exist before the Protos so that Albrecht can even alter the past to create them in the first place

[graceful swan]

Smapid

[restive river]

What

[graceful swan]

SmartStupid

[restive river]

Lol

Ballas is Smapid

[graceful swan]

Making the Warframes showed he was smart but also stupid as he thought he could control them

[restive river]

Yeah

[normal mountain]

I'd say Ballas is intelligent, not smart

(My own definitions being smart=wise)

[restive river]

I can agree with that

[sly ibex]

Honestly, same for Albrecht lol

[graceful swan]

Same for all Orokin

[sly ibex]

I think the present Entrati family have gone beyond that to being better. XD

But I am biased towards them over any other Orokin we have encountered, including Albrecht.

[woven coyote]

They are so bored being stuck where they are they have no choice but become better

The cure to the orokin, make them run out of stuff to do until they are left with self improvement as the only option

[worn ermine]

What does putting blast damage on a weapon actually mean? Like, it's not like we're giving it explosive rounds since blast primes enemies to explode, right?

[woven coyote]

Volatile payload?
Ammo with volatile coating that then evaporates and detonates in contact with air or smth?

Or maybe moisture instead of air

[sly ibex]

Well, they didn't improve really until we helped them, with Grandmother's gentle nudging of ||PARTIALLY BREAKING THE HEART||, but still. 😛

[woven coyote]

Lol

[drowsy saddle]

Alchemy shenanigananery, blast is in reference to steam explosions like when you drop ice cubes into hot oil.

We shouldn't take mods literally, otherwise Bladed rounds and Sharpened bullets would literally mean we took a grindstone to our ammo

[worn ermine]

Come to think of it, how do mods actually work in universe? What are we actually doing when we apply serration or bane of corpus to our weapons?

[glacial bough]

They're all various pieces of tech

[drowsy saddle]

Orokin faux-magic tech

Maybe even a bit of Void Conceptual Embodiment

Maybe even lubricated with Kuva in the case of Rivens

[stiff fable]

Orokin tech is "flexible" for lack of a better word. Modding a weapon has your ship's arsenal make a modification to the weapon

Modding capacity is how far you can adjust the weapon before it causes a problem

[opal girder]

Limbo could have solo 1999 and saved everyone

[drowsy saddle]

Za warudo the reactor

[stiff beacon]

my brother in void he messed up his math and exploded

dude can't save himself out of a paper bag

[opal girder]

Good thing it's a loop...you can also say it has everyone on limbo

[calm lava]

this might be unanswerable but

is there alcohol in the warframe universe?

[proper barn]

Nova does something like that I her Laverian

[proper barn]

Probably?

[glacial bough]

Yes, explicitly

[calm lava]

explicitly?

[calm lava]

is there anything you can pinpoint at

[proper barn]

@calm lava wait yeah Velmir gets drunk in a drinking contest with Arthur.

Also they literally are in the bar.

I think the Hex talk about having a drink.

Velmir and Minerva yeah.

[calm lava]

hmm, only in 1999

thats what i thought yeah

[proper barn]

No?

I think some the cetus stuff also says Ale.

[calm lava]

ill check cetus

"Doctor Tanak's cerebral nutrients! Available in Cetus for the first time! The product of more than ten year's study! The venerable doctor now brings his range of livers, ales, humors, tinctures and unguents to you!"

yeah theres for sure alcohol in this universe, awesome
ty 🫡

[drowsy saddle]

"When in Cetus do not drink the kabuchi. You are incapable of producing the hydraulic effort required to unstick your tongue from the roof of your mouth the following morning."

[tall echo]

[calm lava]

ok tbh kabuchi isnt really alcohol

[proper barn]

Some of the solaris might say Drink.

I think some of the holdfasts do.

[drowsy saddle]

I assume Kabuchi is a strong moonshine

[calm lava]

kabuchi is fermented black tea

[tall echo]

When have you encountered an alcohol that glues your tongue to the roof of your mouth

[calm lava]

its about 0.5% ABV

[drowsy saddle]

Stuff brewed by the local witch doctor

God that stuff burns going down and up

[calm lava]

"Swazdo-lah! Lok heb! Look here! Wine! Imbued with the etheric signature of a person you wish to be rid of! Spouse? Enemy? Ah, you drink them in the evening, and expel them by morning, eh? Guaranteed results!"

theres wine too

[drowsy saddle]

Even in the far future of warframe, "wife bad" jokes are still there

[stiff fable]

Humans are still human

[dark zenith]

Someone had to build

A small country sized ship

Imagine playing hide and seek in the zariman

the ultimate game of hide and seek

[graceful swan]

Prefer Drifters camp hide and seek

[stiff fable]

"Hey kiddo"

[restive river]

This reminds me
Does anyone know if you can have multiple chairs and Wally will still appear?
Does he pick a chair at random?

[stiff fable]

this is a great question

honestly the chair makes me want to petition DE to make the Zariman big room a proper HQ

The stumbling block would be "where's the Helminth go" but you could easily fit all the HQ functions in there need to fix the lighting though

[graceful swan]

I've got 2 and Wally has so far only appeared on one

[restive river]

Do you know if he favored the first one you placed or the second one

[graceful swan]

I think Wally is coded to appear on the first chair placed

[restive river]

Mk

I may have to try and test it

I wonder if there’s an increased chance of him popping up in the chair
Cause
I feel like there isn’t

[graceful swan]

I doubt DE made him more common in backroom

[restive river]

The chair isn’t exclusive to the backroom

[graceful swan]

I wonder if placing it in Orbiter stops him getting on the counters

[blissful merlin]

I’ve yet to even have Wally appear in my chair…it’s like set in front of my PC but adjusted just a little. But no dice so far

Keep hoping to log in or come back from a mission and he’s just there but nahhhh so far just a “normal” chair 😃

[graceful swan]

You've probably jinxed it now

[blissful merlin]

Honestly? Yea..knowing my luck🤣😭

[restive river]

I’ve seen him in my chair once in the orbiter

[blissful merlin]

lucky

The moment he appear in that chair for me I’m recording it. Feels more rare than him appearing all over the orbiter rn haha

[green hazel]

yeah i do that too and he hasn't ever shown up

i think you need to move the chair back a bit

[graceful swan]

Wally can't get trapped by placement

[blissful merlin]

OH??? I’ll def try that. I def think it’s like a little close for him to fully appear?? Idk. I’m a paranoid Tenno lol

[graceful swan]

Plus the chair has no-clip

[blissful merlin]

OOOP SO WHY HAS HE REFUSED TO MANIFEST IN 1999😭😭😭
The times I want him to appear he doesn’t, and the times I don’t want him to appear (in my orbiter) he does. He’s never spawning in that damn chair in my back room😭😭😭😭

[graceful swan]

It’s random

[humble sierra]

My buddy put the chair here, I think Wally is too afraid to show up there

[blissful merlin]

I know…my luck is just absolutely garbage with him appearing lmao.

[humble sierra]

I wonder what the official spawn rate actually is

[graceful swan]

Probably isn't one

[humble sierra]

I mean somewhere in the code there's gotta be a percentage

Unless the Indifference does what It wants

[drowsy saddle]

Some intern at DE hits the button and the servers randomly chooses some poor sod to get Wally'd

[blissful merlin]

Indifference sees me wanting him to spawn…and refuses to. Yet when I randomly decide to go back to my orbiter for a few minutes HES THERE. IT MAKES ME MAD LMAO

[slow phoenix]

wally does a lil trolling

[tall echo]

I've only seen him twice since putting a chair in my backroom. It's rotated which somehow causes him to sit on the armrest instead of the actual chair

[brittle siren]

Inaros lives

[chrome cobalt]

wrong baro alert? baro not in pluto but on earth

[brittle anvil]

That letter from flare rules

|| temple is flare, who lived into the orokin era by sleeping on a comet for eons, diving in to the tenno revolution the long way around. Love that.||

[clever orchid]

So, in theory, a Tenno randomly found a Warframe that shouldn't exist on a comet that hadn't been in the solar system for untold time and decided, "Hey, why not" and proceeded to use transference and suddenly experienced ancient long lost Rock and the spirit of a True Rebel Soul.

[brittle anvil]

Hell yeah.

I also think about what this implies for the other protos... But maybe not.

Flare is in a unique situation imo

[clever orchid]

Yeah, Flare specially escaped the loop and went to the future (the long way).
The others... it's harder to be sure what could be the canon conclusion

[tall echo]

Minus the tenno transference bit

Temple flare would've been a conscious frame

[restive river]

^^^

No tenno required

[restive river]

I mean they all “escape” the loop, we make alterations to the year of 1999 and those carry through AND the loop remains
So the protos both continue to exist without fully transforming and will eventually fully transform, all of them being lost to history / destroyed with time
Minus Flare/Temple who manages to escape onto the comet and sleep until Lizzie wakes them up for the night of the naga drums where they have since fully transformed

[brittle anvil]

I think it'd be really wild to discover a canon fate for the other hex too, but they're so far into lost history that ???

But when I got that letter from flare along with the ability to play lizzie, gotta say, just wow, after helping them work with one another

[restive river]

I mean 18 radiation wars happen between 1999 and the orokin taking over
So
Def lost to history

[brittle anvil]

that's a lot of radiation wars

[graceful swan]

Considering the frames don’t actually age I’d say the only options are dead or alive

[brittle anvil]

Technically true of everyone

Lost ruins discovered: Room loaded with metal cranes found

[clever orchid]

That's only in theory. We don't actually know what the centuries would do to them. Is just as likely that they went into a permanent state of unconsciousness and thus similar to frames we use today, or they could be closer to a less angry Umbra and the rest of the early/original warframes if they kept a similar level of awareness to them

[clever orchid]

Imagine Baro comes one day with a mysterious metal statue he found in the void. It costs like 1000 credits and 5 ducats.

So you can buy many

[tall echo]

The frames we use are intentionally built inert and/or calmed by tenno interference, it's not a consequence of the creation process. Umbra is the rule, not the exception

[restive river]

^^^

[clever orchid]

I'm pretty sure the ones we make in the current time have only a semblance of the old personality

Drifter notes it themselves in a KIM

[tall echo]

Albrecht states that, although he doesn't know when, the protos will eventually succumb to the "infested madness"

[tall echo]

Yes?

[clever orchid]

Yeah, just confirming

[tall echo]

That doesn't contradict anything I've said

[clever orchid]

Didn't mean to sound confrontational. That was not the intent. Sorry

[proper barn]

The ones at the time of umbra also where this. Umbra is one of the last frames made.

probably.

[tall echo]

Nah it's my fault, the usual conversations with new people in this channel made me default into assuming the worst

[proper barn]

The Daxmade into Umbra happens right near the end of the war where Ballas and Hunhow work together to "take down" the orokin empire.

[tall echo]

Lore newbies tend to be rather... frustrating more often than not

[clever orchid]

Who knows how many non-standard frames exist. Stuff like Stalker and the acolytes are based on existing frames, but are still their own custom existence, between the heads and abilities.

[smoky solstice]

is it a really rare appearance? I've had it there since the update and I still haven't got it

[restive river]

Stalker is confirmed to be a warframe

[smoky solstice]

tbf I haven't been playing much recently but still

[restive river]

He isn’t based on another frame
He just
Is a frame

[smoky solstice]

from???

oh wait, jade shadows already confirmed that no?

[restive river]

Yeah :p

[smoky solstice]

oh was that a response to what was said earlier

I saw the chair thing and wanted to say my piece about it, wasn't paying attention to the most recent stuff, mb

I thought you were announcing some news so I immediately jumped on that

[clever orchid]

True, but he's also not one that can be, mechanically anyways, remade and used by Tenno

[smoky solstice]

well, I guess there's no blueprint, but at the same time he's no different from the rest of the warframes, right

who knows what the future holds

[clever orchid]

I mean, assuming Stalker is the real Stalker (which is more or less certain) he's been around since the war. He's Umbra if Umbra didn't need to be recrafted

[smoky solstice]

we already sorta have the stalker warframe, in duviri, but all that really says is that a concept of his frame exists in the void ig

[smoky solstice]

yeah

all the warframes were like stalker or umbra once

[clever orchid]

Which might mean there may never have been any further work done on the "Stalker Strain" to make more

[smoky solstice]

well it's not like the orokin were manufacturing duplicate frames

that's what we do, using blueprints

in terms of using batches of the helminth strain on people to make warframes which correspond to the same frame, well only albrecht did that

[restive river]

That’s just cause we don’t have his blueprint???

[clever orchid]

Yeah, and some of them canonically only exist because we found scattered parts of the originals. Like Limbo or Inaros.

[smoky solstice]

what does this prove

[restive river]

Stalker never fell in combat
Thus no blueprints

[smoky solstice]

I don't see how this is very different from what we get from assassination missions

[restive river]

Like we can literally use an inert version of the stalker in Duviri

We just lack his blueprint
That’s it

[smoky solstice]

btw the non-canon assassination thing is still just messing with my brain

idk if I can make it make sense

but I also don't know if canonically the operator/drifter owns more than one frame tbh

not counting umbra

[smoky solstice]

stalker would be mega broken btw, if a little boring

you go invis, you get a massive crit boost and you can't die lmao

it's like cyte except you don't need skill to maintain it

[clever orchid]

To be fair. The Void is weird. Duviri especially.
Cause, like, how is Kulervo there? Duviri only existed because of the drifter, and if Kulervo was there, that means someone found Duviri in the void, ignored everything about how weird it is, and convinced the residents to imprison and torture him.

[restive river]

Yeah

[restive river]

No??

He just
Fell in and the island formed due to his emotions

Ballas banished him to the void and he fell in

There’s no explanation for why things fall into Duviri
They just
Do