lore-discussion

[tall echo]

Never gonna happen

[flat otter]

Just finished the New War. That was WILD.

How the hell did the Drifter get out of the Void? That's my first question (of many, if I can gather my thoughts 😆 )

[spice spade]

I think New War was the best quest yet. Like, out of ANY of them.

[flat otter]

YEP

DEF. Good Lord.

[spice spade]

If you finished Duviri Paradox, I can tell you.

[flat otter]

I did finish the introductory quest line, yeah

[spice spade]

At the end of the intro quest, he is free to leave any time he wants.

[flat otter]

Ohhhh

[humble sierra]

The implication is that the only thing stopping the Drifter from leaving was the Drifter

[flat otter]

I thought, by looping it back, he forfeited that ability

[flat otter]

Yep!

[spice spade]

Teshin and him have a moment where they realize "Oh, I was in control the whole time."

[humble sierra]

Lotus' hand and Teshin gave the Drifter motivation after they had lost all hope after constant loops

[flat otter]

:^)

[spice spade]

He was just LETTING Dominus control the place.

[flat otter]

Teshin my beloved

Crazy that he'd LET him

But I digress! I love the Drifter

[spice spade]

Zariman trauma or smth, I dont know.

[flat otter]

What a great character, and a total badass

I wanted to choose him when I had to choose between him and the Operator, right?

But then I was like, "Nah, he's giving the Operator a choice here, and there's no chance in hell the Operator will let the Drifter save the Lotus."

But then he tells the Operator it's his turn to save her??? AAA

[spice spade]

Sadly, no matter who you choose there, the gameplay emulates what Operator would play like. Drifter gameplay feel from here on out is restricted to Duviri.

[flat otter]

So that was jarring, but otherwise, no, I enjoyed every second of this quest

[flat otter]

Ufffff. Shame

I love the Drifter's combat

[spice spade]

There are changed around voice lines and stuff, but thats it.

[flat otter]

I would've loved to see the Drifter's reaction to getting into a Warframe

That would've been sweeeet-

Wait. He's already been in them.

Ignore me LOL

[spice spade]

He starts off uneasy and even stumbles on his way down to the helminth.

[flat otter]

Oh damn! Still unsteady then

[spice spade]

Hes used to controlling them with Lotus's hand, not with Transference.

[proper barn]

I would put it up there.

[flat otter]

I seeee

[lyric vessel]

Hey, what happens if you keep on antagonizing Lizzie in the Kim? I’ve already gotten the jump scare

[winged flume]

Wait on, Warframes are totally bootstrap paradoxes. Where did Ballas get the idea for them, probably from the past, of which Entrati got the idea from Ballas, because Entrati went to the past with Ballas's work.

[flat otter]

Y'know, I think my favourite playable part of the quest is Kahl's. Was it... Kahl-175?

[proper barn]

you get the bad ending.

[flat otter]

Such a good sequence

Such a good setpiece

[lyric vessel]

Bad ending?

[flat otter]

Only thing I enjoyed about Teshin's sequence (lore aside, just gameplay-wise) is the glaive-grapple xD

[flat otter]

[spice spade]

What was your opinion on Veso R?

[proper barn]

every one of the new protos has a "good" and "bad" outcome.

the bad outcome of flare and lizzie is just them fuding still maybe even being apart and that is a terrible outcome.

[humble sierra]

I recommend doing the Veilbreaker quest, it follows up on some of the Narmer stuff (and gives you access to weekly Hunts)

[flat otter]

Honestly? Super cool. Alad V's dialogue made me laugh a lot, the companion-based combat was unique, and having to figure out the best route to the different bot spawns (especially during the Jackal fight) was great. A bit clunky on a controller, but fun nevertheless

[lyric vessel]

Ah, ok so nothing too important, I want them to eventually make up (entirely for flare’s mental state, I personally hate Lizzie) but I was curious what would happen if I kept on hating her

[proper barn]

oh you can do that pretty easily then. i also got the jump scare and then still got them to work it out.

[flat otter]

Ty for the recommendation! I'll be sure to do it next then (though I may take a break from questing for a couple days at least)

[spice spade]

The ending to Veso's segment, where he takes back the ship and decides to blast the Murex against Alads orders was chefs kiss.

[flat otter]

Yesssss

[humble sierra]

It's a shame that it did nothing to stop the Murex, though

[flat otter]

Screw the board and screw Alad V

[humble sierra]

RIP Viko

[flat otter]

HAH

Teso*

[spice spade]

I mean, the Murex he shot blew up and was destroyed. But the blast took the Corpus ship with it.

[humble sierra]

Oh, I must be misremembering then

I though the Murex just absorbed it and shot it back at the ship

[flat otter]

But yeah no yeah, God

I have a question: has the Lotus taken Ballas' place as the leader of Narmer, or did I misunderstand the dialogue?

[spice spade]

The Narmer are treating Ballas as a "martyr" which means an inspiration even in death.

[humble sierra]

During the quest? No, Ballas was behind Narmer in secret prior to the quest and tricked the Tenno into a trap

[spice spade]

Lotus is still completely against Narmer.

[humble sierra]

Lotus and Erra served as the 'face' of Narmer before the reveal that Ballas wasn't enslaved

[flat otter]

Also, don't laugh, but

Having done Duviri out of sequence

I didn't know the hand was the Lotus' hand. I legit thought the Lotus was the rabbit, just like Teshin was some random old guy.

How the hell is Teshin there btw?

[humble sierra]

New War Act 1 (ends with Teshin) - Duviri - New War Act 2

[flat otter]

Phew. Good. Thanks!

[humble sierra]

they just fell into the Void portal that Ballas made

[spice spade]

He almost died when confronting Erra in New War. When the Void portal opened, he was sent to Duviri and saved by one of the residents there.

[flat otter]

Yeeeee

[spice spade]

Unlike Drifter, he is not allowed to leave.

[flat otter]

Alright! Now it all makes sense-

AW

[humble sierra]

Duviri might be the only thing keeping him alive

[flat otter]

Poor Teshin

[flat otter]

Honestly? He's probably racked up a mean bounty on his head. I'm inclined to agree with you

[humble sierra]

He also got sent through time which is why he's much older in the quest and landed a long time before Lotus' hand did

[flat otter]

Btw, "For Narmer" was sad as HELL to hear

[humble sierra]

Moreso the 'storybook' aspect of Duviri and the power of the Void might be all that's left of Teshin. The Drifter follows the Hero's Journey and thus needed a wise, old mentor, so Teshin now exists solely for that purpose

[spice spade]

All of the start of the Duviri quest is a direct reference to the Operator failing to save Lotus at the start of New War.

[flat otter]

Ohhhh, gotcha

[spice spade]

Every single thing that lands in Duviri.

[flat otter]

:(

[tall echo]

Why

[flat otter]

Duviri is honestly really interesting. I should spend more time there

[spice spade]

There are Codex entries that explain Duviri better, if Im not mistaken.

You can find collectables in Duviri that unlock them.

[flat otter]

I imagine killing one of the Grineer queens, with the Grineer being as strong and widespread as they are, is a surefire way of getting yourself hunted

[flat otter]

Bet! That'll be a fun hunt

[tall echo]

Ok but he's a dax

An elite soldier of the orokin empire

[spice spade]

Yes, a dax that honors the CONCLAVE-

[humble sierra]

I wouldn't say it explains Duviri better, but certainly gives it more depth with its history

Each codex entry is about the lost islands

[flat otter]

Issuing a bounty's just that: issuing a bounty. Whoever can hunt him can justify that themselves haha

[humble sierra]

I particularly like the one about the Rains of Chains

[tall echo]

No sane person would hunt a dax for any amount of money

[flat otter]

https://tenor.com/view/sss-laser-laser-mouth-blast-gif-12584939

[flat otter]

Plenty of insane bounty hunters!

[tall echo]

(Besides, the grineer wouldn't pay anyone outside their army)

[spice spade]

Nah, you know who would hunt Teshin for even one credit.

[flat otter]

Who?

[spice spade]

Literally any Corpus goon.

[tall echo]

Another thing, aside from the worm no grineer knows that the elder queen is dead

[flat otter]

Real

[flat otter]

True true true

[spice spade]

Worm announces it over the speakers constantly why she needs Kuva.

[flat otter]

Oh?

[spice spade]

Its no secret, at least to the Kuva Grineer, that Elder is dead.

[tall echo]

Never heard a line like that

[flat otter]

In Kahl-175, I heard "For the Queens," hence why I agreed with Cephalon Scrap

[spice spade]

Look at Vorunas intro scene and how the Drakk Master sees the Worm grieving.

[flat otter]

Though, there might also be more. Idk.

[tall echo]

All grineer still say "queens"

[spice spade]

They still believe they can save Elder with enough Kuva.

[flat otter]

Ohhhh

[spice spade]

Hope is not lost for the Grineer.

[flat otter]

Thanks!

[tall echo]

Or they are kept unaware that the queens can, in fact, die

[flat otter]

I need to get the Helminth and whatever system spends Kuva, btw. I need me a Kuva Hek... And whatever else takes my fancy

[tall echo]

The grineer have risen up against orokin before, they might do it again

[spice spade]

Riven system is how you spend Kuva.

[tall echo]

Main use for kuva is rolling rivens

[flat otter]

Oh! I thought Kuva is what got you Kuva weapons

[tall echo]

No

[flat otter]

Gotcha

[tall echo]

Liches get you kuva weapons

[spice spade]

Nah, for that you have to kill level 20+ grineer when the lights flicker

[flat otter]

Bettt. And the Helminth?

[spice spade]

Spawns these lil dirtbags

[flat otter]

Ahah. Never seen one!

Can't wait for one to spawn. Does it happen specifically in Kuva Fortress?

[spice spade]

Son sells the segment at Rank 3 with Entrati.

[spice spade]

Can happen easiest on Saturn.

[flat otter]

Tyyyy. I need to get my Entrati standing up then

[tall echo]

Any lvl 20+ grineer mission

[flat otter]

Shouldn't be too hard, I hope

[flat otter]

Tytyty

[spice spade]

The lich has no onboarding help and will absolutely mess you up the first time, but the Helminth you have time to get used to.

[tall echo]

You need to kill like 10 grineer within 10 seconds or smth after the lights flicker

[flat otter]

What the HELL was that creepy wall btw? Legit felt suffocated watching that scene LOL

[tall echo]

The man in the wall

[flat otter]

10 seconds?!

[spice spade]

Theres a man in that wall. Thats the embodiment of the Void.

[flat otter]

Oh dear God. I'm excited.

[tall echo]

(Unconfirmed)

[flat otter]

The man in the wall, or uh, THE wall? /j

[tall echo]

Wally for short. Very important to the story and lore, starts invading your personal space lookin like you after chains of harrow

[spice spade]

Now that New War is done, its now entirely possible to unlock Steel Path if you so choose.

[flat otter]

Oh sweet!

[tall echo]

Aren't zariman nodes required for that

[flat otter]

I need to do every mission in the star chart for that, right? Also, hell yeah, Wally

[spice spade]

Because of Temple Hotfix 3, all nodes past New War are no longer required.

[flat otter]

I did do Chains of Harrow. That was a very nice quest, and I veeery much wanna get Harrow

I also wanna get Limbo. Will defo do his quest when I can

[spice spade]

Chains of Harrow is one of the essential story quests, so doing New War comes with the assumption you did CoH.

[tall echo]

It's very fast

[flat otter]

I did have to do it haha

[tall echo]

It's impossible not to

[flat otter]

Hell yeah

[tall echo]

Every limbo bp takes 1 minute to build

[flat otter]

Is Ballas the Son, btw?

Very similar-looking

[tall echo]

Ballas is ballas

[spice spade]

The Son?

[tall echo]

Son is son

[flat otter]

Deimos!

[spice spade]

OH

[flat otter]

But bet. Ty!

[spice spade]

No, they are different

[tall echo]

Very different

[flat otter]

I saw Ballas' role in the infestation and thought "yeah, Deimos makes even more sense now"

[spice spade]

Son is gonna inevitably succumb to Infestation. Ballas became a Sentient and got cucked-

[humble sierra]

Two entirely seperate characters

[flat otter]

PFFF

[humble sierra]

That's just the Orokin's appearance

[tall echo]

One is a whiny loser, the other is the best male orokin

[humble sierra]

sadvilcornoises

[tall echo]

Vilcor isn't as hot as kermerros

[flat otter]

Tyty

Also, I'm sorry, the Son is the best Orokin male? The Son?

[tall echo]

Just son

[humble sierra]

Well, firstly the pool isn't too big

[flat otter]

Son

[humble sierra]

You got

Son
Father
Ballas
Albrecht
Nihil
Tuvul

[flat otter]

Idk, I'm more drawn to Father

[tall echo]

Tuvul

[north ferry]

Whomst is Tuvul?

[flat otter]

Idk if I know an Albrecht or Tuvul

[humble sierra]

You will know Albrecht

[flat otter]

Ohoho

[humble sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-warframe-entrati-albrecht-entrati-gif-9473130576765294659

[flat otter]

Hype-

[north ferry]

But also, not a lot of good choices

[humble sierra]

I misclicked but this way it doesn't spoil you at least

[spice spade]

Tuvul was in charge of the Zariman venture.

[tall echo]

Chad
Chad dad
Whiny loser
Bad dad
Another whiny loser
An idiot

[flat otter]

NOT what I expected-

[flat otter]

I'm glad then LOL

[flat otter]

Ohhh ty

[flat otter]

Best Orokin

[humble sierra]

This is Albrecht

[north ferry]

You will learn the frustration that comes from the name Albercht.

[flat otter]

Omg?

[tall echo]

Ok but he's married

[humble sierra]

Albrecht's one of the main figures right now in this act of the story

You can do the Whispers in the Walls quest for more info

[flat otter]

I am deeply excited to meet Albrecht then

[tall echo]

And he's a prick

[flat otter]

I'll be the judge of that 😤

[tall echo]

A smart prick, but still a prick

[humble sierra]

Still better than 80% of the Orokin though

Everyone in his Family is better

[tall echo]

That's a low bar

[humble sierra]

Ofc

[humble sierra]

You've played Duviri, so you should know his daughter...

[flat otter]

Oh!

M-something!

[tall echo]

Euleria

[north ferry]

Narrator, Mother

[flat otter]

Nevermind!

[humble sierra]

That's right, M-other

[tall echo]

Momm-

[humble sierra]

Duviri is a book she wrote, which is why she narrates it

[flat otter]

Mother is actually Daughter?

[tall echo]

Mother is albrecht's daughter

[north ferry]

She also teaches

[humble sierra]

Daughter is Daughter's daughter

[flat otter]

WAIT.

[humble sierra]

Someone bring up the family tree

[flat otter]

Duviri is a book written by her?

[spice spade]

Daughter is actually Grand-daughter?

[tall echo]

Yes

Based on stories albrecht used to tell her

[flat otter]

The dots. The DOTS.

[humble sierra]

Yep! You hear her during New War as well, during the part where you're doing a quiz on Eternalism!

[flat otter]

OMG THATS HER?

[tall echo]

Damage over time?

[flat otter]

Pfffff

[tall echo]

That sure is what's happening to the entratis

[flat otter]

She's a good teacher for sure. I got all the questions right, save for the last one

[spice spade]

Is it a Toxin proc, a Slash proc?

[tall echo]

Toxin def

One slash proc on father

[flat otter]

Hahaha

[spice spade]

Im surprised you have no questions on Eternalism.

[tall echo]

If an entrati that isn't albrecht asks "would you love me if I was a worm" the only correct answer is "you are a worm."

[flat otter]

It's not that I don't have any, it's that I can't word them atm xD

It does make quite a bit of sense as is though

[tall echo]

The answer to eternalism: it's essentially irrelevant

[flat otter]

I mean, it don't seem irrelevant!

[tall echo]

They give so much info and people miss the vital part of the alternate realities being inaccessible

[tall echo]

Otak should just be floating unconnected

[flat otter]

Ty! Poor Unnameds. Very interested in this Necraloid

[spice spade]

I thought they are accessible to Operator?

[tall echo]

It's the posh floating robot

[tall echo]

No

[humble sierra]

Necraloid's the floaty thing connected to Otak, you should be more interested in Loid (play Whispers!)

[flat otter]

Oh. Nvm. I know it. Take!

[spice spade]

Because Void powers

[flat otter]

Otak*

[flat otter]

I will, I will! In time

[tall echo]

Otak is the other side

[spice spade]

But thats why Drifter came over to help us-

[humble sierra]

Don't Be Late... 😃

[tall echo]

A damaged cephalon that loid had to accept into his body to prevent him from dying

[flat otter]

If I do any quests in the next 48 hours, I will probably burn out

(Which sucks, because I wanna know mooore)

[tall echo]

Drifter was in the void, not another reality

[flat otter]

Interesting

[flat otter]

[spice spade]

If Drifter is in control of Duviri now, he can return all the lost islands. Dont just leave them to die, you monster.

[glacial bough]

The Islands are gone already

He can't just command them to come back

[humble sierra]

So, after the New War, you'll have a couple quests available to you

1. Angels of the Zariman - Side quest, technically, might be a main quest in the future. Real fun stuff, you get a new area and whatnot.
2. Jade Shadows - 30 minute self-contained side story (though it IS a main quest), where you play as the Stalker and learn his backstory
3. Veilbreaker - side story showing what happened to Narmer, playing this unlocks ||Archon Hunts|| aa well as ||Kahl-175 missions|| in the Drifter camp
4. Whispers in the Walls - the MAIN story, everything major needs this as a prerequisite, including 1999

[flat otter]

Tysm!! THE STALKER??

[humble sierra]

Yesssss

[flat otter]

WE CAN PLAY AS HIM??

[humble sierra]

Yessssss

[flat otter]

I'm prioritising that quest

[humble sierra]

He has the same moveset he does in Duviri, if you unlocked him there (rank 10 on Opportunity or whatever it's called)

[spice spade]

You can do so in Duviri too at rank 10

[flat otter]

I haven't! Omg

[humble sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-stalker-deal-with-it-protoframe-gemini-skin-gif-10570914445270287948

[flat otter]

GDJDHDHD

Rank 10 of which Intrinsic?

[tall echo]

Kaya emote?

[humble sierra]

Lettie emote

[spice spade]

Opportunity

[tall echo]

Opporchewnity

[flat otter]

Sweeeeet

[tall echo]

Ah, the jojo hairstyle

[humble sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/trinity-lettie-judging-1999-warframe-gif-15529471153998470406

[flat otter]

Okay, I'll probably do... Jade Shadows, Veilbreaker, Angels of the Zariman, and then Whispers in the Walls

[tall echo]

I do not like her hairstyle

[tall echo]

What MR are you

[flat otter]

6!

[spice spade]

Only do them when you are ready though. Dont burn yourself out.

[tall echo]

Get 14

[flat otter]

Yeah sure man

I'll get on it

[spice spade]

But like, why?

[humble sierra]

At 14 you get very powerful weapons from the Zariman

[tall echo]

There's some sick weapons in the stuff after aotz/witw that need MR14

[flat otter]

Bless. Ty!

Ooooh, ty for elaborating

[humble sierra]

Just a PSA, Jade Shadows is quite emotional

[tall echo]

Did you forget about MR locks

[spice spade]

I didnt, I just forgot Incarnons exist

[flat otter]

I'm glad.

[spice spade]

Ew, Incarnon

[tall echo]

Ew, a wrong opinion

[flat otter]

Honestly, if the quest where you can play as the Stalker wasn't emotional

I would've sued DE /j

[tall echo]

You get to learn a lot of major stalker lore

[flat otter]

His writing is peak so far

[flat otter]

Hell yeah

I do hope he gets tougher to fight down the line, if he does continue to show up and fight us. I always steamroll him :^)

[tall echo]

Including: [Redacted], [Redacted], [Redacted] and [Redacted]

[flat otter]

Sgsjshjsdu

[humble sierra]

And more importantly you get an absolute banger of a track

[tall echo]

He only gets weaker

[flat otter]

:(

[flat otter]

Hell yeah

[humble sierra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHKei7XEz2g

[flat otter]

Lemme check this out

I will say though

I doubt any song in Warframe will top Luscinia's for me

[tall echo]

Post-second dream stalker is the strongest version just because it instantly casts his damage reflection ability on spawn

[tall echo]

All of 1999 probably will

[flat otter]

I doubt it. I doubt it. I'm a sucker for opera.

[stray gale]

if you play steel path, the stalker encounters are replaced with 'acolytes' who are kinda the same thing but quite a bit tougher

[tall echo]

What about various rock genres

[flat otter]

Ogh the organ

[spice spade]

Replaced is the wrong word, Stalker can still appear in Steel Path.

[flat otter]

Prog rock best rock for me

[flat otter]

OHOHO

I see Dogma8's correction, but still, Acolytes sound cool!

[tall echo]

Tbh only one of them is actually difficult

[humble sierra]

Yeah they all have unique abilities based on other Warframes

One's called Violence and they've got Silence meaning your abilities are nullified

Including your Operator form

[flat otter]

I've heard of Archon hunting. In the New War, I've Archon hunted. Have I unlocked that now? (Can you tell I shut off the game as soon as I was done with the New War xD)

[tall echo]

Violence makes me want to commit violence

[humble sierra]

That unlocks after Veilbreaker

[spice spade]

Malice can use Magnetize and return all fire back to you until you roll.

[flat otter]

OHOHO

[stray gale]

violence is like the one boy-band member who breaks out and gets popular on his own

[flat otter]

Ty!

[tall echo]

But I can't because those stupid orokin glassed me

[flat otter]

Also, speaking of Veilbreaker and Narmer

[spice spade]

I find Malice harder than Violence because he usually uses Magnetize when I least expect it to return my attacks and kill me instantly.

[tall echo]

Laughs in melee only

[stray gale]

kinda depends on who you're playing and what weapon you're using

but yeah, melee frames eat acolytes for breakfast

thanks, damage attenuation

[flat otter]

Actually, let me not ask and find out instead

[spice spade]

I know that, but like, I dont like living in fear of a bubble.

[tall echo]

Narmer is not relevant to the story after tnw so far

Disappointing

[humble sierra]

Ask, we'll just give you a "Find out" or "No sign yet" type of answer

[flat otter]

Bet

[humble sierra]

Because they're still working on that aspect of the storyline, I think

[flat otter]

How new is the New War?

Not the question I had in mind

But it does make me wonder, that

[stray gale]

in terms of? release date?

[flat otter]

Yeees

[tall echo]

It's called that because it's the sequel to the old war

[humble sierra]

New War came out 2020? 2021?

[stray gale]

was dec 2021

[tall echo]

It's like ww1 and ww2

[flat otter]

Ty!

[spice spade]

A few years old.

[flat otter]

Okay, great. Just wondered! Now, onto my question: do we learn anything about the status of sentinels post-Ballas and whatever hits Narmer might take as a faction in Veilbreaker? I find them super interesting

[stray gale]

not all that much, I'm afraid

[tall echo]

Sentients

[humble sierra]

Veilbreaker is the big answer to that, yeah

[flat otter]

Sentients. My bad

[stray gale]

people are speculating that they're going to be the next big plot thread after we're done with the current arc

[humble sierra]

Sentinels are your floaty robot companions

[flat otter]

Ty haha

But huuuge

[tall echo]

Tau is in sight

[flat otter]

Okay, glad to hear it. With that, I oughta hit the hay. Got an exam tomorrow, and it's 5 AM :P

[humble sierra]

Good luck!

[flat otter]

Thanks! Take care folks :D

[spice spade]

See ya

[stray gale]

speaking of future plot threads

I kinda hope that DE doesn't pull the veil too much on wally

I feel he's getting a bit too human and knowable

I really liked how alien and inscrutable he was in whispers in the walls but that scene where he's trolling entrati by shapeshifting into loid in 1999 strikes me as really petty and a bit rizzless

[humble sierra]

Yeah it's started to feel more human

Which does make me think we'll defeat it with the power of love more than anything else

[stray gale]

yeah, it just feels like a bit of a downgrade in aura that this ancient being of unknowable power seems to increasingly use his powers just to be annoying

[tall echo]

Btw both railjack and drifter intrinsics give a ton of MR exp so those are best to speedrun that stuff

[north ferry]

I mean, considering as far as we know Wally was 'shaped' like Albretch and copies human forms a bunch, so you can argue Wally could be inherently human in a way.

[stray gale]

I just don't want the mystique of such a big-scale version to be yet another petty whiner

like, we already had ballas

[north ferry]

Yeah but we love Ballas... love to hate and kill him.

Also, considering the omnipresent nature of the game, no threat will ever be fully defeated.

[stray gale]

that's the thing, right?

a ballas 2 won't be able to outdo the original

[marsh kelp]

Welp, just got the notification for the Reddit AMA...5 hours late. I hate technology

[normal mountain]

Especially if they're an alive Grineer Queen

[vocal belfry]

what is the lore reason behind only some of the 'points' on the alignment chart being filled with branches or flames depending on the player regardless of alignment

like these for example

[tall echo]

Nothing

[vocal belfry]

yeah but what is it triggered by

[proper barn]

wait waht

[polar bobcat]

It's usually triggered by choices you make in quest scenes, with both sides respectively being Sol and Lua. You can be balanced and pick middle options, or you can choose to invoke Sol or Lua via the top or bottom choices
Basically it's just a duality thing/what you chose for your own character ^^

[proper barn]

It's not and bad it's actually Ying and Yang.

[spice spade]

I hate Incarnon as a concept, as a game mechanic, and as a weapon design.

[proper barn]

ACTUALLY YEAH Sol and Lua

[proper barn]

why? it's really cool.

[drowsy saddle]

They're asking about the brass frame

[proper barn]

no

[polar bobcat]

That is what is happening, either side you chose can change the frame depending if you lean farther to one side

[proper barn]

OH YOU MEAN

the brass parts chaning

yeah it's still the same.

I forget what color is sol and what color is lua.

anyway the white verison is 3 pointed leaves.

[vocal belfry]

nah nah I mean the stuff in the brass

see how the alignment is identical

but the amount of flame or branche changes

l;ike with the lua skewed ones

one is fully filled

[proper barn]

OH

probably based on on how many choices you've made.

idk.

[vocal belfry]

this would make sense

[proper barn]

i have made only white choices and mine isn't full werid.

[vocal belfry]

like ive never seen anyone else who has it completely filled

always 1-3 off

[proper barn]

werid

@spice spade Hey i wanna talk to you more.

Cuz why do you hate old weapons being good again?

[spice spade]

I dont hate this. I hate the way the Incarnon mechainc in particular works.

The transformation part of the mechanic.

[proper barn]

the fact you have to charge it?

by doing headshots

[spice spade]

This is part of it yes. Angstrum and Torid not excluded.

[proper barn]

that is such a terrible reason i couldn't have even thought of that reason.

[spice spade]

The transformation of most weapons is so ungodly strong that they overshadow even adversary weapons. Which is a high bar considering just before Incarnons, Bramma and Zarr were meta.

[proper barn]

I thought it was gonna be about powerlevel or like "why can they be AoE when DE said no AoE weapons" (the answer for that is actualy cuz of how the transformation works).

[spice spade]

My hate for incarnons is more than just a single reason.

[proper barn]

I mean but the first reason you said is just one i never heard before.

which is funny to me.

[proper barn]

the fact you have to charge it and the like mode is limited is why they can be so powerful. btw. Also even without that most weapons still get a very good buff just fromthe perks anyway.

[spice spade]

But how limited is it really? Just shoot someone in the head three times and you are back to blazing through everything.

[proper barn]

I mean they probably should. But i would also disagree cuz crux is really good and the adversary weapons have shotguns.

[proper barn]

that is more limited. than just always being able to use it. also it makes you actively do a gameplay thing.

[vocal belfry]

me when I have to play the game

[proper barn]

i would actualy say every coda weapon is at least very good verging on excellent.

[proper barn]

I wanna be fair to Dogma and say he thinks it should probably take a little longer to charge.

[spice spade]

If they wanted to make a "so OP but only if you can use it right" it shouldve had a higher bar before you can achieve Incarnon form.

[proper barn]

eh

I just think you're wrong but i just wanted to hear your reasoning.

[spice spade]

Pretty much.

Either make it harder to achieve or make it less powerful.

[proper barn]

I do always wanna be honest about people's arugments though.

[vocal belfry]

i mean you still need to mod for it though

[north ferry]

Put a timer on the transformed mode.

[vocal belfry]

endgame weapon type is good

[proper barn]

you also do. also the incarnons for normal weapons.

is actually high level. like circuit SP is a big requirment more than any Adversary.

[lean garden]

why is this in lore

[vocal belfry]

deep lore going on here

[proper barn]

just cuz i saw it here i'm done.

[spice spade]

Good question

[proper barn]

anyway the incarnons in duviri come from Calveros gun Autism.

[old dome]

(looks at nge's berserk evas) (looks at frames) ...i wonder if they can rip their jaws open if they went mad enough...

[vocal belfry]

no because ive seen fanart of this and I want it done

all for teeth propaganda

[north ferry]

Ooo, now that's an interesting face off.

[proper barn]

I mean probably. they would be repaired by the helminth though.

[north ferry]

Huh, actually there's kinda transference going on in Evangelions...

[proper barn]

why do you think our Frames aren't riddled with bullet holes?

the helminth upkeeps them also it stops from like slowly wasting away.

[old dome]

bc nge's evas have their jaws sewed shut by bolts of metal,, kinda the same as the frames.....

[old dome]

yeah i realized p late that the frames take a lot of inspo from nge too 🤝

[north ferry]

How is that like Warframes?

[old dome]

they were specifically designed to Not talk at all—they can howl, groan, & growl... but thats the extent of their vocals. they have jaws (assumingly) but their mouths are probably sewn shut.

...or smth like that. im kinda sleepy rn so i dont remember it word for word

[north ferry]

Oh true I do remember that being brought up. I mean, simply not made with functioning jaws and vocal cords

[old dome]

like. stalker is the only one who can talk—dante writes in his book, jade spoke through telepathy w her tenno...... thats it

idek how koumei talks but she apparently can too.

but yeah i just think itd be interesting if they can rip open their mouths and start howling bloody murder when in a state of heightened rage & hysteria...

(seriously how can koumei talk...? in japanese no less....)

[north ferry]

Play Valkyr.

[north ferry]

What? Where?

[old dome]

her abilities

you can hear her speak in jpn when you use her abilities,, i think the loudest one is mai tsukeru...

[drowsy saddle]

Umbra reeee-ing is iconic tho, and he doesn't have vocal cords

[tall echo]

Less sewn shut and more just mutated beyond a usable form

[humble sierra]

I think most Warframe "dialogue" is nondiegetic anyways

The noises only exist for the players

[tall echo]

I'd be terrified if I was a grineer and just heard a low "UwU" from behind me

[drowsy saddle]

Considering its a subsume, you can't even predict who's it gonna be

[tall echo]

Yeah

[swift sentinel]

Fun fact I learnt recently, Umbra's howl is recorded by Steve

[graceful swan]

Valkyrs scream is by Megan

[strange turtle]

Next April Fools they should replace a bunch of sounds with employee voice acting but not actually good

Try to fly around in the archwing or kaithe and just hear someone making wind noises into a microphone

[graceful swan]

Tbh The earlier in Warframe you look the more you see how much DE staff are voicing the characters originally and over time how they started hiring people who are better at voicing characters

[proper barn]

idk if that's true.

[humble sierra]

Koumei's certainly is

[drowsy saddle]

Koumei was a real big weeb prior to getting helminth'ed

[near anvil]

Hmmm I think don’t think the infestation is a traditional hive mind. The core of it that connects them all is just a mass of experiences but no ego or goal, however the individual bodies like lizzie, helmuth, legactes ect all appear to posses an ego unique to them certainly in the case of the first 2.

In a traditional hivemind it would the core that would directing everything with no individuality unless needed for a particular purpose

[proper barn]

No

Mainly cuz the legacites are said to be the beginnings of a hive mind

And in the operator report thing

It says their is a hivemind we don't know about yet.

[near anvil]

No as in I’m wrong or no as in thier not a traditional hivemind

[proper barn]

The helminth is specifically detached from the greater hive mind.

And is friendly.

[near anvil]

Not completely

After all ||lizzie shares its memories||

[proper barn]

Lizzie is helmith.

[near anvil]

Lizzie is techrot

[proper barn]

No.

Incorrect.

[near anvil]

I thought Lizzie was a hybrid between the hilmith infested strain and techrot

[proper barn]

Lizzie is from flare bleeding in a guitar.

No techrot to speak of

[near anvil]

Yes because he caught the techrot

[proper barn]

They also No.

[near anvil]

He specifically mentions it

Sorry they

[proper barn]

Helminth's is stronger than the techrot.

[near anvil]

Mind has a bad habit of defaulting when distracted

Something I’m trying to fix

[proper barn]

Lizzie even talks about how like "oh we don't want to subsume flare we only do that for you demon".

Also you talk about that lizzie "eats" a bunch of random stuff cuz she's just helmith and helminth is wildly hungry.

[near anvil]

Yeah that I know

His poor taste buds

[graceful swan]

Infestation tierlist when?

[proper barn]

Their. Lizzie is she though which is funny.

[near anvil]

Damn it

Flair must have tasted so horrid things for Lizzie

Also I kinda want flair to be the first prime temple before prime temple drops for the rest of us

[strange turtle]

S - Helminth
A - Grey Strain, Mutalist, Coda
B - “Standard” Technocyte
C - Derelict, Techrot/Testudo
D - Emissary

[near anvil]

What about nidus?

[graceful swan]

Nidus is Helminth

[proper barn]

Yes. Ate a tire.

[near anvil]

Among many other things

[chrome rivet]

Is there a meaning to the names Scaldra and Grineer?

[graceful swan]

Scaldare
Scaldra

Grineer probably just a random name DE came up with

[drowsy saddle]

Genetic Engineering

[hybrid citrus]

What is the khora lore

[lean garden]

has cat

[drowsy saddle]

Mostly Venari

[hybrid citrus]

Ok

What are your guys favorite lore mine is kullervo

[rotund tinsel]

Umbra

[strange turtle]

Helminth - The clear peak, chill and wants to be helpful. Not messy and with it’s food like the other strains. Has fish

Grey Strain - Creates the coolest Infested and the biggest, has fish, managed to help pull the sticks out of an entire Orokin family’s a-

Mutalist - Improved ability to interface with technology making it an all-around improvement to the standard strain

Coda - frend. Also strong enough to challenge and fight alongside the Tenno, I guess, but that bits not really important

Standard - The classic Infested,

Derelict - Not that notable to the average player tbh but better than the Emissary and I couldn’t do them dirty by putting them on the same tier

Techrot - Primitive technocyte, would be D but Emissary and its kinda funny and endearing

Emissary - Just forgettable tbh. Didn’t even get a quest, it was a Nightwave thing. Only not an F because Nora’s cool and the infiltration capability it had

[old dome]

this is so interesting to me...

[vagrant bone]

souka

[feral cape]

Glad what we assumed based on Quinns line was right

[solemn sparrow]

Me catching up on the KIM messenger story in 1999: "Haha, Q said <forbidden acronym for someone's attractive mother>", then one conversation later "Aaaaaaand I'm crying again".

[sweet wadi]

Wait that acronym is forbidden here?

[solemn sparrow]

Apparently. I guess the F in it counts like saying it?

[sweet wadi]

… I am still confused and infuriated by the censorship in this server. The Hex would all be banned by day one.

[graceful swan]

The Hex aren’t in the server

[old dome]

not even that,, 5min in.

[strange turtle]

~~Just say you meant fornicate (with) ~~

[graceful swan]

Server rules and in game rules are different

[solemn sparrow]

That's a bold assumption. 😄

[sweet wadi]

The server rules shouldn’t prevent you from talking about the events in the game though.

[graceful swan]

If you want to swear so badly you could always ask for the rules to change in modmail

[sweet wadi]

I don’t, it’s just a confusing double standard.

[graceful swan]

It’s not though

[solemn sparrow]

Yea, it's not censorship, it's a restricted code of content to keep it open to all. While I don't like it that much, it's not a big deal and I get the intent. /shrug

[sweet wadi]

You seem really adamant about this for whatever reason, and I don’t care enough to actually argue it with you for a second time. So ok. Sure.

[solemn sparrow]

Bigger hills for me to die on and all that. 🙂

[graceful swan]

Servers can make whatever rules they want for the players

Characters in the game don’t follow these rules as Warframe isn’t discord

[jaunty oasis]

What’s also interesting is that Lua is not included as an exception.

Despite it being the location of that infamous ceremony

[graceful swan]

Or you know the fact it was in the Void for 1000 years

[near anvil]

Another point is that while drifter is active in 1999, operator is active in origin

[silk atlas]

I should've asked why Drifter and Operator could appear together in Lotus Eaters

[old dome]

????????

[near anvil]

The continuance is its own thing

Not really void related

[lean garden]

"extraordinary circumstances"

[silk atlas]

Oh I'm blind

It's right there lmao

[lean garden]

continuity is hella void related tho

[near anvil]

Not In the same way that the zaramin or the sanctum is

[jaunty oasis]

Yeah I guess Lua is somehow more? firmly in real space than the void somehow

[near anvil]

Lua was placed in the void intentionally and while affected it’s firmly in real space

Zaramin and the sanctum are halfway

[lean garden]

you could say its the difference between slowly letting yourself into a pool, and cannonballing into it

[jaunty oasis]

Yeah like maybe Lua dipped it’s toes only

[tall echo]

Zariman

[jaunty oasis]

I need to check back on continuity lore though because there is a reason they did the ceremony on Lua when it was firmly in real space

Before it was sent to the void by the Lotus

[tall echo]

It had void leak through that made the ceremony more stable

[jaunty oasis]

I guess void leaks don’t count enough, or maybe the ceremony enhances the void leak.

I mean Lua is also the site for it I guess for security too

[tall echo]

The ceremony attracts the attention of void creatures that sound vaguely similar to the murmur, probably strengthening the preexisting connection

There's been a lot of invite spamming bots lately, I have now witnessed two getting caught by the automod in real time

[viscid aspen]

So i have a question about midnight 1999

In WITW we see Entrati telling us we're late as the clock strikes 12 and the Man in the Wall seemingly consumes him. But then in The Hex he tells us the nuke must go off in order to win. So, in the original 1999 timeline we see in WITW, was there no nuke going off at midnight? Where did it come from then? Is the presence of the nuke part of the alterations to the timeline Entrati mentions in the pc message to Drifter?

[near anvil]

The power plant is the nuke

[azure elm]

I just assumed the powerplant going off was a last minute addition to add tangible stakes to the loop going poorly

[near anvil]

Nah

The power plant is the nuke

[tall echo]

The tangible stakes is wally willing. Where's the stakes in the desctruction of a city just before it's gonna get reset

Wally winning

Not willing

I think that's a reasonable typo with my 3 hours of sleep

[azure elm]

i feel as though the perpetual loss of life should be more important to you given that its the walls whole arguement against albrecht

that life is a 'toy' and worthless beyond destruction

[tall echo]

There's no emotional connection to the hex until after the quest tho

[azure elm]

not just to the hex, to all holvania

[graceful swan]

“In the version of the past we saw, My Albrecht said we were too late. The solution, naturally, is to arrive on time, next time.”

[tall echo]

And you can't expect me to care about nameless, faceless, voiceless, bodyless citizens that basically don't exist until maxing out the syndicate

[azure elm]

you should want to stop a nuke going off because a nuke going off is a terrible thing

[near anvil]

Holvania haa 2 issues outside of the wally

The techrot and scaldra

[azure elm]

the more we dip our toes into time travel the more i feel albrecht is just the master from doctor who

[graceful swan]

3 issues
Scaldra
Techrot
Hex trust issues

[azure elm]

mf just causes problems whereever he goes

[near anvil]

We can fix the next trust

[lean garden]

Hey Missy was doing her best okay

[near anvil]

The scaldra and tech rot however

[tall echo]

What's the point if it'll just get reset either way

[azure elm]

the techrot is actually closer to being a solved issue than you may think, at first glance

[tall echo]

Hi I'm pessimistic

[azure elm]

the legacyte, nyx, and lizzie all make it very clear that the infestation operates on an idea of 'being whole

[graceful swan]

Didn’t the nuke go off at the start of the quest then loop?

[azure elm]

if we can satisfy them without sacrificing ourself, the war stops

scaldra however, are a REAL issue

[viscid aspen]

Right but if it's another version of the past then the nuke plot point feels kinda tacked on and out of nowhere. Cuz that means in that 1999 there was no nuke and Wally simply won because we "were late", and then we travelled back and oh no there's now a nuke that's going to go off!

[azure elm]

as the van of the ORO company and what can be assumed the major fist of the orokin empire in its birthing days, there is a real and genuine threat that if we let them do as they want, they destroy mi

[tall echo]

Scaldra remind of a rising gear. Made of metal. Renevengenance

[azure elm]

OHFh

I JUST CONNECTED A DOT

[tall echo]

Eh

[azure elm]

earth was destroyed through orokin meddling, poisoning the planet, and the scaldra happen to utilize a massively destructive corrosive as their body armor and weapon

methinks its connected

[tall echo]

I think at least 14 radiation wars would have a slightly negative effect on the environment

[lean garden]

18*

[tall echo]

18?

[lean garden]

yea its at least 18

[tall echo]

Huh

Ok

[graceful swan]

One version there’s a nuke issue
The other Wally won by taking over Albrecht
Loop keeps changing things

[viscid aspen]

rubs head

I wonder if we'll ever see the original 1999 Wally that won. Or maybe that event got erased by our arrival to 99 and altering things?

Idk

When in doubt, Eternalism

[tall echo]

Why does the hood in your pfp have cat ears

[graceful swan]

The loop reset it then we arrived and changed events

[viscid aspen]

Lmao

[viscid aspen]

Kitty gwens

[azure elm]

https://tenor.com/view/animals-thinking-scratch-monkey-gif-15272665

[graceful swan]

Spider cat

[tall echo]

Huh

[north jolt]

Maybe but its probably a very thin connection. The Scaldra are basically using caustic chemicals and gas to exterminate Hollivanians techrot probably because it is rather effective. Not sure if that's quite like what the Orokin did, probably, maybe

[old dome]

its a start, i'd say

[north jolt]

Yeah, not saying there's absolutely no connection, just not sure how strong of one it is

[proven fractal]

Is Ballas based?

[normal mountain]

Pretty sure he's acidic

[proven fractal]

Agreed

[smoky solstice]

wait a second

we have a bank account?

I mean ig we order stuff online but I never really thought about it

[graceful swan]

Yeah your details are 4 1 should I keep going?

[smoky solstice]

how do we even make a bank account though

[graceful swan]

Go into a bank

[smoky solstice]

had to go for that one tbh, just to see what would happen

[smoky solstice]

sure yeah, I'll just head past the scaldra and techrot and find a fully functional working bank where I can apply

and this is 1999 so you definitely can't make one online

pretty sure even today a lot of places don't allow that

[graceful swan]

by the end of 1999, internet banking was emerging, with 30% of banks and thrift institutions having websites that facilitated online banking, though functionality was limited

[strange turtle]

Albrecht presumably had an account set up for us, alongside the internet plan

[smoky solstice]

wait yeah it's so strange, just all these services we have for no reason

maybe it is as simple as Lbrecht hooked us up

ig that's the only way it makes sense

I also just misspelled albrecht but then noticed that Lbrecht is actually so good, how have I not seen that before lmao

[restive river]

Some services may just be provided to everyone in Hollvania, like the internet and tv

I mean there’s tvs everywhete

[smoky solstice]

that's kinda how things were irl though, you have tvs playing random stuff in stores, or store windows even, I mean it is kinda weird they're just laying around the city but that can definitely have something to do with the techrot perhaps misplacing these electronics

but the thing with internet for everyone is that this is 1999, like this was not a time when internet was considered a necessary expense lmao

[graceful swan]

1999 is like 70 years after TVs were invented so of course there would be TVs

[smoky solstice]

I think I'm more partial to the idea of lbrecht hooking us up in the backroom so we have everything we'd need

[restive river]

There’s tvs in some odd spots in hollvania
Like
Connected to benches
Big tv towers
Just. In the plants
And those def aren’t techrotted

[smoky solstice]

internet, a bank account to buy gifts

[smoky solstice]

I mean even if we assume they were placed there as some sort of public thing, that definitely doesn't imply they paid for each person's TV in their home, just that it was like out there

[restive river]

Ye, my point is that they had hella tvs everywhere and it’s feasible some services would provided for to some extent

Hollvania was def fairly well off as a city state, them providing for their citizens isn’t an insane idea

[strange turtle]

If you date Aoi one of her Backroom lines when you walk past is asking about if you two pay for your internet

[restive river]

Nvm on the internet then

I do wonder if Hollvanian was capitalistic or what

I def got the vibe that whomever was in charge was trying to control people through media
Hence the tvs everywhere

[graceful swan]

Does the future even have the internet?

Didn't Orokin start putting all the info in Ayatans

[restive river]

No, Drifter says they don’t have the internet in the future

[restive river]

Yes but that was opposed to books

[strange turtle]

We tell Kaya that there isn’t any, but on the other hand it’s not like we’d be using the Corpus equivalent and we very well could just not actually know

[restive river]

Funny memory statue > some paper

[restive river]

The weave exists but that’s different

[smoky solstice]

yeah, ofc it was capitalistic, you have big bytes pizza, a private corporation, the people making the atomicycles, forgot their name, music labels exploiting on-lyne, digital extremes, all of these companies using the technocyte virus to improve efficiency and automate their businesses to various extents

I mean the state was in on some of this but private/public cooperation happens all the time

[restive river]

If the internet exists in the origin system nobody’s using it

[restive river]

This update really was a commentary on AI generated content and automation

[smoky solstice]

oh that's actually so true, never saw the technocyte virus through that angle

it actually fits really well

[restive river]

Really love the commentary DE gives

[graceful swan]

The PC in Origin System I only used to go to the Backroom and never looked back

[smoky solstice]

actually yeah wait that's weird, we're told many times there's no internet in the origin system but there is the pc...

but the pc has to be connected in some way to 1999 then, like for internet to work, you need infrastructure, can't just DIY it

[graceful swan]

It’s connected to 1999

Probably just plugged into a 1999 server

[smoky solstice]

the pc is 1999 related ofc, I just mean like there has to be an actual link, it's not just a PC in the origin system, it's like a PC from 1999 somehow being shown in the origin system

[restive river]

If I had to guess there is an internet connection but the Orokin p much wiped the internet

They did delete all the old earth records
That would include the internet’s database

[graceful swan]

Things from the past can go into the present

[restive river]

Our PC in the origin system is connected to the infestation though and we know that transcends time
So

[smoky solstice]

well it's not just that, orokin wiping the internet also means there's no infrastructure on any planet that connects multiple computers together, it also means that no one in the origin system even knows how the internet works or how to actually construct the infrastructure to do it

[restive river]

I mean
Albrecht may have

He clearly had info on the plague year

[smoky solstice]

yeah but all I'm saying is that I don't think there's anything in the origin system the PC could use to connect to anything, this isn't even going into how the PC would connect to 1999 somehow through all of that, I'm assuming it's as you said, some infestation related stuff

showing a projection of sorts

[restive river]

Also again, the infestation transcends time and our PC in the Origin System is directly connected to the infestation

[smoky solstice]

but a projection actually there, if that makes sense

[graceful swan]

Things from the past can travel to the present

[smoky solstice]

but that computer in the present is doing nothing without something in the middle connecting the two

[restive river]

There are some satellites in the Coda railjack portion which could still be active to some extent as they are infested

[restive river]

The infestation

[smoky solstice]

plus, the PC is still in the backroom, I'm thinking it's just the infestation kinda constructing the PC from 1999 in our orbiter

[restive river]

It’s the infestation

[smoky solstice]

so you're like remotely utilizing it

[graceful swan]

Infestation and following rules don't go together

[smoky solstice]

yeah I get it, I just mean like I don't know if it's a separate PC from the one in the backroom, or just the backroom PC being remotely used in the orbiter through some infestation construction

and the latter seems cooler

plus I think it opens up the least potential holes involving time travel

[restive river]

Zero latency with the infestation time transcending network

[restive river]

What holes?

It can be a separate PC just fine lol

We’ve established a link to 1999 already
Heck we have the pager that received messages from 1999

Also like
Again
The whole infestation transcending time

[smoky solstice]

when I say holes, I just mean like, if you do it like it's a projection, the infestation isn't doing anything super special aside from what we already know it does, which is interact with 1999 in some way, so it's essentially just sending some data back and forth, if it's a whole separate PC capable of interacting with 1999 networks? it's like it's doing all the work of internet infrastructure, and also so much more than just projecting what's already there in 1999, you know?

so it's not like it's a plot hole, it's just like a thing you can stumble down in the future

[smoky solstice]

this is true ig

also a weird plot point, also without much explanation

we need some side lore content explaining this pronto

it's not like impossible for me to think that, it's just like idk, a bit weird that these things can just happen in the origin system without any of the normal prerequisites you'd need, easier to just assume these things are more just things that are kinda there, you see them, you can interact with them, but aside from that, they're in 1999, you know?

[graceful swan]

Considering a pager can send messages through time is it really out of the ordinary for a PC to be able to send signals through time?

[smoky solstice]

I have the same problem with the pager

idk, honestly the pager at least seemed void related

and if it's connected to the void, safe to assume anything can happen

but the infestation has to be sending that sh*t at ftl speed for such good connectivity, and that's another crazy thing I thought of just now

so honestly, is the PC void related too?

because ftl is possible with the void probably, considering the whole void jump idea to get to tau

[graceful swan]

Well the inbox is messages from the Void

[smoky solstice]

true, maybe the void is kinda like the internet of the origin system

[strange turtle]

So I was searching up the names of the Empyrean enemy types to see if I could find any possible reasons/inspirations behind the names and this is what I’ve got so far, was wondering what other peoples thoughts would be:

Kosma - Maybe just meant to be a generic space word? There’s a greek meaning but there doesn’t seem to be a connection here

Gyre - Meaning “to whirl/to gyrate”or a spiral or vortex. References Saturn’s ring and it’s orbit?

Exo - Because they operate in the outer reaches of Origin

Taro - Could be named after a Tropical plant, that apparently symbolises abundance and fertility in Hawaiian culture (Due to Venus being a fertility goddess as well as love I guess? Doesn’t seem likely and can’t think of a reason that’d make sense in-universe but I couldn’t find anything else)

Vorac - “Greedy in eating”, possible reference to Corpus valuing greed because they’re at Pluto, where the Corposium is

[silk sorrel]

I have a handful of things I don’t remeber/never understood. They’re in no particular order but if someone would be kind enough to give me detailed answers, I’d greatly appreciate it. I know these are really niche but it’s keeping me from understanding a lot of things

• The Old War. I’m confused on the parts of natah and ballas. Ballas betrayed the orokin? Why and how was he planning too? And natah betrayed the sentients? Why and how?

• the Operator. They believed they were the Warframe. So does that mean in canon, the operator only controlled 1 Warframe at the time? Otherwise it would be hard to assume they thought they were them if they could just switch between them. And Why did they think they were the Warframe?

• the operator pt.2. How did the operator originally obtain the Warframe and when? And what determines which Warframe they got? Did someone pick it for them? Or did they get a choice?

• The Tenno. So there are multiple operators and multiple Warframes controlled by Tenno. Is the Tenno (player) the only one that is no longer in the resivior? Or are all Tenno now aware they are a child and live in a gaming chair?

• Tenno pt.2. Since Warframes canonically work together, how does that work? Since there are canonically more than 1 of each Warframe, wouldn’t it be weird if 2 volt’s saw eachother out in the relays or whatever? Because since they believe they are the Warframe…. That would be like suddenly seeing a clone of yourself? I guess this would depend on how much is exclusive to the Operator

• Tenno pt.3. What of other Tenno’s orbiter? Do they each have their own ship cephalon that isn’t Ordis?

• Tenno pt.4. If under the context that the Tenno is the only one aware of the truth of who they are, what’s stopping them from telling other Tenno?

• The “Dream”. What was the first dream and what does dream mean in this case and what does the second dream imply?

• Tenno powers. Why does the events with Teshin unlock powers we had this whole time and why did Lotus not tell us/how did we not know about them?

• the orbiter. Again this one depends on other things. But does every orbiter have a helminth? Why or why not?

• The Drifter. Is there only one canonical drifter? And that being the operator?

• the gameplay. how much of the gameplay is exclusively done by the operator? No way they single handedly do the star chart alone.

• the Warframes. If under the context the operator is the only Tenno aware of their self, how do other Tenno in Warframes communicate? Would assume just talking, but that wouldn’t explain our character was utterly silent up until the second dream? Did they just communicate silently or with hand signals?

[woven coyote]

1 yeah ballas went and shifted the blame for his lover dying to the orokin bcs he literally thinks he cant do wrong( yeah his vote setled her execution)
Depending on when you ask natah was reprogrammed or decided to become a surrogate mom for the tenno(changes in a few situations along the story and i cant tell who to believe tbh, prolly a mix of both)

Yeah part of the treatment made by margulis for the tenno was the second dream so they would forget who they were and also forget their pain (was later weaponized by the orokin to control warframes in the old war) also the part of forgetting themselves didnt seem to be universal (jade's operator)

Warframes were made by the orokin during the old war, eventually paired with operators but not originally

[strange plinth]

disorganized reply to a few of your later points
the tenno number in the hundreds of thousands according to a fortuna event iirc
your operator is the main character, so there's only really one drifter, yes
the operator did the star chart alone or with up to three other tenno
afaik it is not addressed if or when the other tenno are taken out of stasis, but its a safe assumption that they would also be taken to their own ship post-second dream as you were, as lua (and by extension, all of the other tenno there) remains in danger

[woven coyote]

There were other events in the past that also need more than one operator to work

Scarlet spear and the one for rebuilding the destroyed relays for example

[quick wadi]

I thought the second dream thing was done somewhere between after the tenno offed the orokin and went into hiding for however long. Not as part of her treatment to make them tools of the orokin

I think anyway

[woven coyote]

The thing with teshin was like a mindscape and the basic idea is he was guiding us trhough unlocking the powers sealed by marguli's second dream treatment

[woven coyote]

Nah it was the initial treatment
Also margulis' treatment wasnt intended to make them tools
She actually wanted to help
The tenno were weaponized later
Actually it was the topic of her execution iirc, the fact she spoke out against weaponizing the tenno

[woven coyote]

Every orbiter does have helminth because
1 life suport and biological functions
2 warframes are made of the helminth strain so helminth helps us maintain them

[strange plinth]

tenno pt 2
the warframes aren't known to be biological until around the sacrifice, really
it would be more like a robot seeing another robot "oh cool, same model."
after second dream, though, you know you're piloting something, so it doesn't matter after that.
tenno pt 3
cephalons can be in several places at once, although i'm not sure its ever elaborated on if other tenno have different cephalons in canon
belly of the beast had ordis in a public location, which is a very minor point towards ordis being universal
tenno pt 4
nothing, really, but refer to my previous message for my thoughts timing-wise.
the drifter
answered this in the original but i'll expand a little. drifter is another version of the "chosen operator." i believe the KIM line is "i went left, they went right." the deal with the man in the wall split them, based on the semantics of it

[proper barn]

Ballas never wants to admit he's wrong so he "works" with Hunhow in a plot to kill all the tenno. The old war. after the tenno do the night of naga drums. Natah (lotus) chooses to not kill us which was the last part of the Sentient plan. The operator They could always freely switch we just didn't know where our bodies where we might have known we weren't just the warframe but also memory loss if i was to guess. In the old War when marguilus died they tenno where paired with warframes to fight the sentients. we don't know the pairing process. we assume once we brough lau back into real space all the other tenno also started gettting out of the pods. The obiters foundry in special and it makes copies of infested flesh I.E. warframes. we don't know about if everyone has a ordis or not maybe? More than just us know. the first dream was seemingly the first test? Teshin uses mind-kung fu to release the memory locks Margulius put on our mind. Yes every orbiter has a helminth cuz it's what upkeeps our frame.

[proper barn]

second to last question maybe? we aren't sure. like 1%. last question just talking also other tenno do know.

[fallow frost]

Are they?

[strange plinth]

yeah? that's. that's what lotus eaters was about?
send the drifter to the past, they're no longer occupying the same "slot," both are able to go about their business separately

[north ferry]

Oh. Convo looks juicy today.

Uhhh, I don't see that particularly implied anywhere.

[strange plinth]

admittedly, what i was thinking of is shaky at best, completely unrelated at worst
"If any other answers the call… no. It has to be you. Our paradox."
focusing on the paradox line, in that they're not directly from this reality, yet are here anyway
but, it still maintains, based on that reddit comment, that they're no longer sharing the same slot in spacetime
space, sort of, time, no.

[fallow frost]

With the Drifter in 1999 and the Operator in the Origin System, they wouldn't be present at the same time based on an "objective" timeline, but they would both be present at the same point in their personal timeline. I'm not confident it isn't the latter that'd be forbidden.

[north ferry]

You know I did completely give up on what everyone tried to figure out what even the whole Paradox deal was.

[fallow frost]

Well, I assume the Operator wouldn't have been able to pull off the loop trick the Drifter did

[strange plinth]

the email from the operator that gives you the hex quest also implies that operator is active, to some extent. not consigned to watching the drifter from a void pocket as was stated above.
"I will stay here. I will watch her, them, everyone. I'll be waiting for you to get answers and come back to us."

[north ferry]

I hate DE's lore

[old dome]

why so?

[brittle siren]

when did Kaya appear at laruda relay?

because from her word, she already there

[proper barn]

That's werid to say.

[brittle siren]

also strange, Velimir, Minerva and Kaya has their dialogue change, except Flare

[proper barn]

HMMMMM

I think we might be able to do a certain thing if we say like "yes to playing a shawzin"

[proper barn]

she just gets there at the last chat yeah.

[azure elm]

IS KAYA ON LARUNDA??

IM GOING TO CHECK RN 😄

AAAH THERE SHYE ISSSS

[viscid aspen]

That couldve just easily been a "note" they left Drifter before they left for 1999. They can both exist at the same time if there's enough of it between the two, its not like Operator is gone from the Origin System when Drifter is in 99

[brittle siren]

She said: we already know Kaya is there before her 1999 version figure it out

[proper barn]

I think that's not true though.

[humble sierra]

Yeah I think she doesn't quite understand the time travel

[azure elm]

im so excited she made it!

that means the rest of the hex can!

god this is the happiest ive been with the chat stuff

[tall echo]

Eeeeh

Kaya has portal powers and is incredibly smart

[humble sierra]

She made some sort of device I think

[proper barn]

okay I will say seeing so many people like in REAL TIME come to Lurunda is great.

it's soo cool and seeing community is great.

[tall echo]

I don't like it, they all crowd around kaya and make it impossible to see her

And I already specifically went to multiple "calm" instances

[humble sierra]

I mean give it a day or two and nobody will be there

It's like Baro, when he's arrived, everyone rushes to meet him immediately

[brittle siren]

it true though, when you travelling through time, time doesn't need to align with each other. Like Captain America in Endgame, he just left for a few mins and return as an old man.

we never go to Laruda since BoB so we never know if DE put Kaya there

[tall echo]

I found an instance where people were respectfully gathering in one spot instead of spreading out all around her after 4 attempts

[tall echo]

Ok but he lived through that entire time

He didn't time travel back

[brittle siren]

also saying "she doesn't understand time travel" to the person that found out time travel is insane

[brittle siren]

his wife died like 5 years prior, and she really, really old

unless his serum help him live that long

[tall echo]

That. Doesn't change anything?

[brittle siren]

but again, isn't Banner theory is if you go back time to change sth, it doesn't change the current timeline?

and it was true, Thanos dead, but the current timeline still the same

so you saying Cap America live that long, sit there and wait is nonsense, that would break Banner theory, which proved to be true

[tall echo]

It creates a new timeline

[humble sierra]

In Endgame he specifically went back in time to restore order to the changed timeline (by putting the stones back in place), but then stayed with Peggy. This was fine because the Original Steve was still there, frozen in ice. TimeTravelSteve wasn't Captain America anymore and didn't disrupt the timeline.

With Warframe it seems more like a back and forth thing— the past can be changed but the future stays the same because there's events on both fronts and somethingsomething Void

[brittle siren]

what I was meaning here, time travel doesn't have to be "oh I'm at 1999 rn and surely there is no other version of me in the future rn", any of your version could be anywhere in the timeline

[brittle siren]

so basically Peggy husband was Steve but she have dementia or promise time travel version of him to hide his existence to anyone?

if so the he literally kiss his granddaughter or sth?

[azure elm]

Hey Great Kim is back in the shop!

[humble sierra]

Sharon or whatever her name was is Peggy's niece

And as for the rest of it, both Warframe and Endgame had very loose explanations for time travel and its consequences

[brittle siren]

For example, if the Kaya (the version that not knowing time travel yet) still in 1999, but her future self know how, and that version are already at there, without the old version knowing it.

[brittle siren]

It not really loose, it make sense since still kinda the same to other franchise when doing time travel stuff. And since the void in involves, anything could happen

[brittle siren]

Also spoiler for loki, the timeline actually only have 1 and Kang delete the one that not in his control until Silvie kill him

Kang let them do the job and proceed to delete afterward

[north ferry]

The question is, will Kaya still be there when you reset. Also I've spoiled myself 😦 ah well, knew the risk.

[humble sierra]

Probably not

[brittle siren]

we will have to see

need a volunteer to reset it

[tall echo]

No

It's linked to the convo

[brittle siren]

is it? does anyone at Laruda relay when she didn't know how to time travel?

[frosty bronze]

I haven't been to Larunda Relay since the Belly of the Best event, and I certainly didn't look at the spot she's currently hanging out.

https://tenor.com/view/doctor-who-time-david-tennant-wobbly-timey-wimey-stuff-gif-8120490

[limpid crane]

Ye

I don't remember seeing her

[frosty bronze]

I don't dare deign to ask DE for anything. However, if Kaya can do this then I think it would be so much fun to...let's say get into a scrap with Parvos Granum...and bring Quincy along. Or a Cavia quest with Lettie? Or introduce Eleanor to Lotus/Natah/Margulis...so many possibilities. (flailing)

[brittle siren]

why you at Laruda relay though

[limpid crane]

Seeing when baro was returning

[brittle siren]

there is bad ending ...

[brittle siren]

ah yeah,

what is this removed section from? how to trigger her to said this

[humble sierra]

You can't

[brittle siren]

ah "removed" ingame

[humble sierra]

This used to be one of her lines when you transferred out of her into Operator/Drifter

[brittle siren]

but didn't they add it back?

with censored

ah I saw it

[humble sierra]

First was "WTF? What kind of energy..."
Which became "What kind of energy..."

and yeah, now it's "What the [Antimatter Drop sound]? What kind of energy..."

[brittle siren]

actually it the Molecular Prime sound 🤓 ☝️

(i'm kidding)

[smoky solstice]

Ok DE is trolling me

I mean maybe it's unintentional but

1. I mentioned the damn orbiter 1999 PC, came to the conclusion it might be void related, despite it seemingly being infested related, because like move fast and stuff, but now Kat is all up in the AMA fully confirming the Infested association with time, so idk, they got something going on
2. I was convinced DE weren't gonna do Tau any time soon but then Rebb does another tease in the AMA as well

"(paraphrasing) Are you planning to add new planets or missions to the Origin System?"
Rebb: Where would you like us to go 🙂 ?

So honestly at this point I give up, I surrender to the cosmos, I will take whatever happens, at this point I am just lost

[glacial bough]

Kat more confirms that the Infested have a weird perception of time than special interation with it given they're taking the long way around

[feral cape]

Kat?

Oh the writer not an in universe person

[smoky solstice]

I moreso referred to the comment where I think she verbatim stated some weird time thing the infested have going on, specifically the one where she specifically points out the Helminth taking us to 1999, confirming essentially that that is important

[azure elm]

it should be reiterated how this is like, the best 'good ending' of the entire kim dialogue

Kaya actually succeeded, instead of coming to terms with the loop like the others she forged a way out

it would have undercut her whole genius thing if she hadn't

[smoky solstice]

Wait I got the bad ending with Flare???

What?? They're cool with Lizzie though, I don't understand

[worthy dew]

i think that its bugged rn

[azure elm]

if you got the talk about lyrics and their bandmates today I think ur ok?

[smoky solstice]

Yeah

[worthy dew]

i did but associates still

which doesnt make sense... unless there's another message

[smoky solstice]

Idk, it says the conflict with Lizzie is unresolved even though it seems like it is, so ig bugged

[azure elm]

dont sweat it, theres a good chance theres more to be said

remember DE said that flares story is the deepest

[winged flume]

I've seen a few videos where The DSeige posits the idea that the "Year" of 1999 we visit in the Warframe universe is a conceptualy embodied space-time of their (Warframe's) 1999 like a pocket universe suspended in the Void as the Duviri world is.

[smoky solstice]

It's like 99% not what's happening

[glacial bough]

And that's explcitly wrong

[worthy dew]

i wish that after completing each person's story, they got new lines for their gemini skins like how the original 6 had one for when you were dating them

[azure elm]

1999 is a loop because we actually seperated it from the normal flow of time using void juice

[smoky solstice]

I'm not sweating it, but associates is also the r5 thing, and the thing you get if you get the bad ending on a character, so I doubt this is what's up

[azure elm]

but it isnt a space where we can manifest it

[glacial bough]

1999 isn't separate from everything else, it's just a local loop

[winged flume]

That's the conclusion I had come to, I was just entertaining a hypothesis from Seige.

[feral cape]

Also we didn't even do that albretch did

Because albretch is a super genius

[azure elm]

agh language

ALBRECHT IS A SUPER ^%$%^

[feral cape]

An honest demon

[azure elm]

I dont like being kaya, let me cuss de >:C

[winged flume]

Albrecht is. Complex.

[worthy dew]

we literally used our duviri powers to establish the loop the first timem around no?

[glacial bough]

No

[feral cape]

No the loop was already there

[worthy dew]

i see

[azure elm]

the drifter 'taps' the void, like tugging a blanket over yourself

he/she/they can only do it if the blanket is there

[feral cape]

Based on loids email at most we can assume albretch used the Drifter as a catalyst to extend the loop

But it's still on albretch

[smoky solstice]

Also, Kaya says like she was already here before we left for 1999, and honestly she's making a lot of sense, why would she appear now and not earlier?

Ig maybe it's a thing where we changed reality by changing the past, but it's also like kinda awkward if that's the case? Like she has this dialogue about how we knew but let her go on this journey and didn't spoil it, and then we're like "uhhh, no, that's not at all what happened, but sure I'll pretend that's what I did" lmao

[glacial bough]

Albrecht basically got lucky Drifter could use a time rewind outside of Duviri

[azure elm]

its a case of reward vs what is written

[feral cape]

Or albretch simply planned it

[azure elm]

the reward is seeing her, but IN universe, shes always made it to the present

[feral cape]

I wouldn't be surprised if albretch is just using the Drifter as a battery so to say

[azure elm]

thats the thing with time travel, as soon as you do it, it becomes a certainty

[worthy dew]

albrecht planned it clearly from the kalymos sequence but i dont think the loop was there persay until the drifter arrived and used duviri

[glacial bough]

Oh, Albrecht definitely planned for Drifter to be the one there due to Duviri

[feral cape]

No the loop was always there

It was just a day instead of the year

[glacial bough]

It was a day by the time we got there

[worthy dew]

ah i just reread that email

yea that makes sense now

[azure elm]

the loop was established, what the drifter did was tap into the presense of the void, wally, to warp it to their benefit

again, the drifter isnt infused with the void like operator, their strength comes from the void around, not within

[worthy dew]

reading comprehension devil strikes again.

[feral cape]

No? The Drifter by act 3 of tnw is now looped into the deal

He gets the good without the bad

[glacial bough]

No, Drifter (now) is the same as the Op

The use of the time loop outside of Duviri is a suprise

[azure elm]

https://tenor.com/view/frustrated-ugh-headache-gif-7532429

its really hard to keep the drifter stuff straighti

i always forget duviri is a 'prequel'

[winged flume]

We knew it was a small loop of sorts, or maybe it was always a year, as Albrecht's logs found in the Sanctum nodes suggests so.

[glacial bough]

Yes and no

[smoky solstice]

Well yeah, but in universe we didn't do it before we did, it only became a certainty after we changed the past, so the Drifter should be in the same boat, unless we go with the steins;gate world lines thing where we switched world lines without even knowing and in the one we are at rn, she was always there and we knew about her before going. Idk, I'm having trouble fitting it all in my head

[feral cape]

She's chasing albretch not us isnt she

[azure elm]

noooo

kaya is LEAVING she is not chasing

[glacial bough]

Kaya is chasing time travel

[azure elm]

she does NOT want to exist in a space where her previous identity of kaya is a known element

[glacial bough]

Albrecht is just the foremost knowledge

[winged flume]

I mean, technically you can take Kaya to the future by having Nova become her.

[smoky solstice]

You know, someone made a good point in relay chat

If Kaya has discovered time travel, why aren't we able to transport the Hex to our orbiters now

I mean why the hell not, right

[glacial bough]

Depends on how she did it

[winged flume]

I'd love ElaNyx to look over the transference pod.

[feral cape]

If her goal is escaping the past then bringing the past with her probably isn't what she's gonna do

[smoky solstice]

Well I assume she's able to go back to 1999, since she's still in the 1999 mall for when we need her, right?

[glacial bough]

This 100 percent could be a one use only, or only works for her

[smoky solstice]

Plus she says "Amir is gonna die" as if she's gonna mention the fact she saw a cephalon to Amir at some point

[glacial bough]

That gets into ludonarrative dissonance

Like, kaya is alawys gonna be in 1999 since she's a vendor

[smoky solstice]

Well not necessarily, plus I don't think that's exactly what that term means

[azure elm]

shes saying that casually as well, she didnt see amir die 😛

[smoky solstice]

Like I think ludonarrative dissonance relates to gameplay being in conflict to the story, aka having to do actions which conflict with all of that

[north ferry]

I mean, it feels like the protoframes may be additional cast for future content, since it feels set for something to happen.
At the same time, entirely probable it won't be so, and also cause narrative issues with the KIM conversations.

[smoky solstice]

But in any case, idk if there's necessarily a contradiction, feels like there should be a way for her to come back, I mean it's an obvious thing to think about for the devs, "hey, she's gonna always have to be a vendor in 1999, shouldn't we try to make the story fit with that?"

[azure elm]

the protoframes going forward are definitely our new crew

[glacial bough]

Disonance if the conflict in general, which this would be. Regardless of if Kaya gets time travel and what that means, her presence in the mall does not apply

[winged flume]

Wait a moment, Amir turns into a Cephalon?

[azure elm]

he doesn't, he expresses interest in it

vanilla is taking kayas word for temporal law (Scratch that)

[smoky solstice]

No, that wasn't my point

Her saying "Amir is gonna die" was obviously not literal, she just meant it to say like he's gonna freak out after she mentions this to him

Which was my evidence for her having the ability to go back to 1999

[winged flume]

Ah

[smoky solstice]

Actually I should check if she has new voicelines in 1999

Ok yeah, Kaya can travel back in time, she says "Hi, fellow time traveller" now when you talk to her sometimes

Aka, she has time travelled

And is now back

Honestly only Flare doesn't have new lines, but I assume that's because he's bugged at acquiantances

Yep, every single one of her lines now is about how she time travelled pretty much

[winged flume]

Did this happen before we were vomitted into the past?

[smoky solstice]

What exactly

[winged flume]

Kaya having time traveled?

[smoky solstice]

Idk man, I mean it should

But we also don't see her until we do stuff in 1999

There's ways to explain it where it makes sense, I mentioned the steins;gate thing already

But idk exactly what DE went for here, could be a lot of things

Main thing we know is that Kaya can go back and forth

Meaning she's hogging the damn tech

Oh and I really hope DE fixes the acquiantances thing, I really wanna hear what happy Lizzie sounds like

Rather than evil, wants-to-take-over-Flare Lizzie

[humble sierra]

Yeah I want their dynamic in Stage Defense to be there in the Roundtable

[spice spade]

So, if you're acquaintances with Kaya, does she time travel?

[frosty bronze]

T-minus Parvos Granum sending agents to ||Larunda Relay||. He is the King of Reverse Engineering and has a frightening understanding of temporal tech. I want to fight him so baaaad.

[humble sierra]

Nope, you need to reach Best Friends with her

[winged flume]

Yo, Protea Protoframe is going to slap, so hard.

[humble sierra]

Which is impossible if you got Acquantainfes

[winged flume]

I want more lore on Caliban to be honest.

And the Xaku pre conglomerate.