lore-discussion

[heady quest]

Teshin was bound by Dax code and has to obey the one that holds the scepter which the grineer queens had.

[drowsy saddle]

"Dax code" as in literally in his DNA

[graceful swan]

The scene where Ordis tries to kill us and had the music didn't happen

[hybrid silo]

I don't get it

[graceful swan]

What don't you get?

[heady quest]

Don’t remember if it was actually in bred or just in doctrinated

[heady quest]

All that happened inside our mind while the continuity was happening

[hybrid silo]

Ah now that's better

[heady quest]

Teshin helped us to break free by breaking down our inner mental walls which margulis setup to let our void fury out

[hybrid silo]

Anothing thing is Teshin dead in the origin system?

[drowsy saddle]

Teshin states the Dax were given great strength, i take this to mean they were genetically modified, so inserting a loyalty gene or smth isn't that far out

[graceful swan]

No, Duviri Teshin is our Teshin

[heady quest]

Mmmh interesting, honestly it has been a while for me too that I played the quest 😅

[hybrid silo]

Really? Can't he escape?

[graceful swan]

Nope

[digital grail]

No

[hybrid silo]

Why not?

[heady quest]

He is absorbed into the duviri cycle

[hybrid silo]

Ohh

[graceful swan]

he was severely injured too

[digital grail]

It's safer for him to chill in his cave

[hybrid silo]

But then how did we escape duviri?

[heady quest]

You played everything? Just asking for like spoilers and stuff

[drowsy saddle]

it was my first thought since the main tech the orokin had was bio engineering

[heady quest]

In my mind they were just completely loyal to them for some reason, but yea it makes more sense to be genetically altered to obey.

[humble sierra]

Duviri might be all that's keeping him alive

[hybrid silo]

Everything up until The Hex. The thing is that i took such a long break that i forgotten everything

[graceful swan]

Because Drifter regained control to escape that was the whole point of the Duviri Paradox

[heady quest]

We as the drifter have created duviri as the ship was going down. It is the temporal variant of our operator. We were there for a long time and gave away control to Thrax, but when Teshin came into the world, he made us remember who we were and gained back control. We then gave it back with the condition that we can leave

[silk atlas]

If you mean anything between Duviri Paradox and act 2 of TNW, handwave

[heady quest]

Is the theory of the drifter being a back up of our operator that Wally is using to take over the universe still relevant?

[graceful swan]

That's not what Drifter is

[hybrid silo]

Duviri is so ridiculous complex

[heady quest]

So what are we then or is there still not enough info on that?

[humble sierra]

We're a mistake

We didn't get given Void powers but we were still offered (and took) a deal

My guess is Wally needed Drifter to save Operator so that Operator could get Ballas to tear a hole in the Void, freeing Wally

And that's all Drifter's purpose was

[graceful swan]

Drifter is Eternalism at work

[tall echo]

That has never been relevant what

[graceful swan]

Wally wants Operator not Drifter

[heady quest]

So it is just a lucky chance that one of our variant just happened to make duviri and stay alive inside the void so they could interact with with some other variant.

[tall echo]

Yes

[heady quest]

That is interesting. So wally didn’t actually kill of all our variants and actually saved ours from the void. So all the variants we saw fall actually would have just died to the void besides then that 1 in a million that surprisingly to Wally made a cyst (duviri) in the void.

[graceful swan]

No, Wally left Drifter

Both Drifter and Operator made a deal

Same wording different meaning

[heady quest]

Oh wait how did drifter made a deal?

[tall echo]

Same as operator

[graceful swan]

29. You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you?

A. CORRUPT FILE DETECTED

B. I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you. (correct)

[tall echo]

That deal is where the split happens

[heady quest]

Oh but why did Wally leave drifter then?

So he left two variants alive right?

[graceful swan]

You'd have to ask Wally

[heady quest]

Saved 1 from the void which returned to the origin system

And then just left one again in the void??

[tall echo]

Eldritch being

[graceful swan]

Wally did say them not you

[tall echo]

Incomprehensible intentions

[heady quest]

So he basically made it’s own enemy

Is Wally just setting up everything that leads to his death?

Imagine that, Albrecht made the first conceptional embodiment, left it in the void for eternity and then it tries destroying itself

that would just be sad

[winged flume]

Wally, just needs a hug. And a coffee, maybe a biscuit. Jam on toast.

[graceful swan]

The hug would kill him

[winged flume]

Albrecht needs a hug, for real.

[graceful swan]

Now you need to make your arms longer and maybe grow a bit

[winged flume]

You could hug your aspect, that could to the justice.

I'm a balance play through, so hopefully it all works out. Like full on balance. I'm sure there's an inverse way to make a balance that's horizontal not a vertical one as depicted.

[charred patio]

HOW. are you in my room???

[graceful swan]

She moved in after you dated her

[charred patio]

when did we... I didnt do this
who? how? WHY???

[graceful swan]

This was literally the whole point of the dating mechanic

[charred patio]

dont you have to actually go to the mall, THEN select who to date?

[graceful swan]

Not necessarily

Some you can date via KIM

[charred patio]

dang it

I wanted to stay neutral

now Im in a committed relationship
this wasnt the plan XD

[graceful swan]

When in doubt
We should break up…

[charred patio]

no, I cant do that
that defeat the whole point of staying neutral

[graceful swan]

Dating someone isn't being neutral

[charred patio]

I dont want to date any of them XD

and among all of them, breaking up with aoi or arthur feel extra hurtful
cause we knew about their previous relationship and subsequent breakup

[tame radish]

#lore-discussion is so peak. (No one understands sh** about lore and just post and discuss hot garbage)

[graceful swan]

Aoi actually takes it really well

[charred patio]

but I wont XD

[graceful swan]

I understand the lore

[obtuse vine]

finally actual in game proof tht the warframes we pilot rnt actual people (except umbra).
i can finally sleep soundly

[silk atlas]

They're all made from people, that's exactly how the process works. We just make duplicates of those already-Warframe'd people.

"aren't the originals" just means we didn't drag people out of their homes to make them.

[tame radish]

"They're all made from people "
Huuuh...no.

[graceful swan]

Umbra is still made using the same method as stated there

[obtuse vine]

UMBRA ISNT REAL????

😔

[graceful swan]

Umbra was remade using data as he was blown to pieces

[obtuse vine]

yeah duh thts wht i meant, synthesized meatsuits aren't people

[quaint crater]

i love kidnapping people and turning them into meatsuits 🤑

[obtuse vine]

huh wait.....no but he has his memories still

[graceful swan]

He was still made again using the foundry

[silk atlas]

And being able to screw around with stuff like memories isn't out of the Orokin's forte (Aya, Ayatan Sculptures)

[graceful swan]

The foundry is probably an Orokin invention too

[obtuse vine]

damn, we didnt even give peace to umbra.....just his clone........thts super fckd up

[silk atlas]

Well, he died. About as much peace as an Orokin could give someone.

[lean garden]

*arent made from people

unfortunately it turns out our space 3D printer is kinda powerful

So we're replicating nigh-exact if not exact copies

[jaunty oasis]

I believe kuva was required to make umbra, and that might’ve played a role in umbra’s memories being retained. But who knows, I don’t.

[lean garden]

Doubt, umbra isnt the only frame that needs kuva to make

[fringe moth]

according to a tool tip somewhere primes r closer to exact copies of the og

[lean garden]

thats not really what the tool tip is alluding to tho

[fringe moth]

sry didn't mean to ping

[lean garden]

the tech that goes into prime gear are closer to the height of orokin technological prowess

the OG base warframes and the replicas we make are essentially the exacts of each other, and the same goes for OG primes and the prime replicas

[old dome]

he needs a bullet.

somewhere in the body... as long as its a bullet.

also i finally got quincy to open up &. that man hates himself for caring about others... and he makes it everyone else's problem. thats such an interesting take on the "hidden heart of gold" trope.

like... why are you lying to yourself like that? why do you hate yourself for simply caring about other people's well being? you cant go back to your family now, that is true, but thats not arthur's fault... its no one's fault except albrecht.

you hate yourself for caring. you hate OTHERS for making you care about them... but youve never thought of sending money to your family anonymously? if you cant get out of the situation, that doesnt mean they should be stuck too...

i need to peel him back like an onion.

[river tangle]

lizzie is helminth?

wat even...

like lizzie is roleplaying as helminth

[void zinc]

Noticed that Nidus reacts to the infestation room. Thought it was dope. Does it have any significance or is it just an easter egg?

[graceful swan]

Nidus is Helminth's master you get access to that room permanently eventually

Assuming you bother to get Helminth segment at least

[void zinc]

Yeah, it's already permanently accessible on my end. Never thought to use Nidus around it. Cool little detail

[restive river]

Garuda:

[tall echo]

No, lizzie is an extension of the helminth

[river tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/the-punisher-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-wait-wait-wait-wait-wait-wait-wait-wait-wait-noooooo-dream-sequence-gif-3498303690144489723

but if so, surely she can read the moral compass thing or...

[worn ermine]

How does scaldra in-lore even pose any kind of threat at all? Compared to weapons and warframes from the future, they're basically kids playing with nerf guns.

[silk atlas]

There's more kinds of weapons thanks to the technology, but it's not like you're making the bullets bullet more when you make a gun in the future. The Grineer weapons especially are shoddily made and still pack a punch

The Warframes themselves also just aren't that strong to just shrug everything off.

[graceful swan]

Everyone always assumes Warframes are gods

[gilded rose]

I mean... Komei is a good example

[silk atlas]

You can worship those who still bleed

[gilded rose]

Like the grinner do the queens. We have proven they are not gods.

[gilded rose]

I'm not far into it, so I might be wrong. But it very much could be that they're moving gas chambers. Don't they specialize in that? Or could it be something else

[worn ermine]

Also, is any in-universe explaination given for how Xaku Prime exists? Weren't they supposedly an amalgamation of warframes and thus wouldn't have an original orokin design?

[silk atlas]

No, but it's not hard to think about how it could be real. They make the Prime after the normal came back, they threw Prime stuff into the Void as a funny test, they upgraded the original Xaku into a Prime...

As for a concrete answer, we don't have one.

[graceful swan]

Maybe they saw Xaku's existence cloned them made it gold with higher stats

[worn ermine]

Interesting
I wonder if they'll try and come up with a special explaination for Caliban Prime when he releases

[silk atlas]

He was made in the Old War, so it's just as easy

[worn ermine]

Oh I didn't know that lol
I need to brush up on my lore

[silk atlas]

Alt helmet moment

[feral cape]

Shoot steel enough and it cracks

[restive river]

Or y’know
The Orokin as a whole

[restive river]

I still think it makes the most sense that Albrecht primed Xaku, they have ties to the void and voidtongue and their design is heavily influenced by the entrati

[restive river]

Their goo actively harms the infestation as well as living beings
The Warframes are infested

I feel like if the Grineer or Corpus had what they had it’d be a much tougher fight for us to an extent

[gilded rose]

Oh... Oh that's bad

[spring turret]

goop

[gilded rose]

Homemade slime

[graceful swan]

Slime Prime ready to commit crimes

[gilded rose]

Yes. Now we need a slime frame

[ancient gull]

Did somebody say spiderframe?

[gilded rose]

No. But that's better than my idea

[tall echo]

We have a spiderframe

[gilded rose]

WHAT

tell me. Now.

[tall echo]

Khora

[gilded rose]

please

[gilded rose]

The one with the Kavat?

[tall echo]

She was initially even more spider-like, but even people without arachnophobia couldn't deal with it

[gilded rose]

....

I'm sorry.. what? Wdym?

[graceful swan]

Khora was originally going to be a spider frame which you can see in her abilities

[gilded rose]

Oh? That's interesting. And those abilities are? I usually go to the wiki, but I've come to find out that they don't fully expand or are a bit of a garble of words that I can't make sense of

[graceful swan]

Whipclaw Ensnare and Strangledome

[lean garden]

Theres the big dome web, theres the wrapping a goober up

[gilded rose]

Why did they switch it? Cause I feel like the alter sucks if her abilities are relatively the same

[old dome]

ppl have arachnophobia,, like me.

[lean garden]

Spooder scawy

[gilded rose]

I wanna be mean and make fun of you. But I don't have the heart. Could it be possible to make it a little more... Uhm... Friendly?

[lean garden]

Thats why it went from spider to metal kat

[ebon trench]

Monster Hunter wilds arachnophobia mode, turn em into slimes

[gilded rose]

Huh.

[gilded rose]

I meant without the huge alter. Like how spider man is. You can tell, but the kat kind of throws it off? Sorry. I love spiders more than cats

[graceful swan]

Funnily enough, Khora was scaring even people without Arachnophobia

[ebon trench]

How?

[gilded rose]

I kind of want to see the OG now

[lean garden]

Would be tough, dont know if they had a spiderlike model for khora before they did the alleged pivot

[gilded rose]

Dang.

[ebon trench]

Wait, would that new ephemera that looks like spider legs trigger some people’s arachnophobia you think?

[graceful swan]

Probably not

[gilded rose]

Cause it's kind of vague?

[graceful swan]

Most probably just see it as some legs

Plus it’s not a spider

[ebon trench]

I suppose, I know different aspects trigger it for different folks, but it is kiiiinda spider-esq

[old dome]

what new ephemera??

[ebon trench]

I don’t know the name, but it’s one from the coda that looks like 8 legs coming out of your back

[restive river]

I have arachnophobia and it doesn’t trigger

Embracer ephemera

[ebon trench]

Well, that’s good to hear, and thanks for the name…..I must search for it

[gilded rose]

I kind of find it interesting that at the beginning of the game I kind of saw Warframes as these...ancient warriors that hold peace throughout the origin system. Now I realize they're infested kid soldiers that are essentially bounty hunters

[graceful swan]

You are in fact a child soldier

[gilded rose]

Including but not limited to, child soldiers. Gas weaponry. Flame weaponry. Mass Genocide. Killing medics...

[proper barn]

Well infested normal Soilders piloted by kid soilders. BUT they are protectors they always have been.

It's why they came to blows with the Orokin.

[gilded rose]

Also human experimentation.

[proper barn]

Like so many of the levarian story's are warframes and tenno defying the orokin or even just protecting the system.

So many of them just had jobs as protectors or guards.

[gilded rose]

But we as players are just mass murderers

[gilded rose]

Like dagath?

[proper barn]

Yes.

Before and after the warframaztaion.

Before she was also part of a bi Poly couple.

They where just possessive and evil.

[humble sierra]

Dagath was a guard but her "owners" used her more as a puppet/sugar baby

[gilded rose]

I mean, I know lore wise we have protected the system numerous times. Hence why the normal people worship framed

[gilded rose]

So it wasn't fully consensual?

[humble sierra]

Dax have restraining bolts that allow the Orokin to control them (see the War Within and how Teshin "betrays" you)

It's not explicitly stated they used that on Dagath

[gilded rose]

I actually haven't gone through the leviran. I didn't exactly know what it was

[proper barn]

I wouldn't say she was that. She was manipulated and they where obsessed with her. But they did actually love her.

[humble sierra]

But there is an implication it wasn't entirely consensual.

[proper barn]

Eh

[gilded rose]

Ah. That...

[proper barn]

Nah I disagree.

It's more they where controlling and werid but they did all love each other.

They where just evil.

[humble sierra]

Theres definitely a power dynamic and there's no guarantee Dagath enjoyed it as much as they did

[proper barn]

That's true I agree. I think we actually agree we are just coming at it from different places.

[gilded rose]

👀

[proper barn]

Like they actually did all love each other the couple was just toxic.

[graceful swan]

Both Gara Revenant and Lavos were Wardens

[proper barn]

And citrine

[gilded rose]

Wardens? Like prison wardens?

[proper barn]

And Hildrin.

[humble sierra]

Yeah they're probably not going to go into any detail so it's all just speculation

[gilded rose]

Oof. Hence the hole in her face

[proper barn]

You can listen to dagaths lore right now. You Have a dojo right.

G-Ma can tell you the story.

[gilded rose]

Yeah. One that I practically funded myself

[gilded rose]

I don't know who that is

[proper barn]

You can literally listen to her lore in there right now.

[graceful swan]

Lavos was a Prison Warden
Revenant and Gara were Wardens of the Plains

[gilded rose]

Oh... Hence why her parts are in Eidolon

[proper barn]

Also gara lover of femine meat tower.

[worldly kernel]

anyone else confused by the line "There's something out there kiddo, watching us" this would imply something/someone is watching the man in the wall

[gilded rose]

What?

[gilded rose]

There's always a bigger fish

[humble sierra]

That came later. She was a Dax, she loved horses, so they gave her a horse, but she liked the horse more than her, so they staged an accident so the horse would die, but she got injured, so they turned to Ballas for help. He turned her into a Warframe with an eerie smiling face, which the couple hated, so they had her "disposed" of, and she got a laser blasting her head.

But that didn't stick...

[proper barn]

The unum and gara loved each other. They called each other beloved and stuff like.

[humble sierra]

That is Man in the Wall that your father is referring to

[worldly kernel]

yeah, what the hell is the bigger fish if the void itself isnt the biggest

[proper barn]

The bald orokin woman in diemos

She's father's mom. Grandma.

She's not mothers mom.

[humble sierra]

You're quoting your father when you say that, and when MITW says that line, they're mocking you

[gilded rose]

Oh. Her! She's my favorite of the family

[proper barn]

She wasn't married to Albretch

[proper barn]

Yeppers

[humble sierra]

We stan a crazy woman willing to risk dooming the Origin system just to get her family to talk to each other again

[proper barn]

Yeah she tells stories one of the being dagath. I forget where in the dagath room she does tell the story there. Go listen to it.

[gilded rose]

Of course. Why wouldn't we?

Interesting. More to look into

[humble sierra]

There's a lantern right next to Dagath's sarcophagus/tomb thing

[proper barn]

There.

Also we know what dagath looks like.

[humble sierra]

You can interact with it and she'll tell you the whole story line by line

[proper barn]

Or looked like.

[gilded rose]

Really? So I'm assuming Dagath would be found on Deimos then

[humble sierra]

Nope

[gilded rose]

Are you kidding me?

[humble sierra]

She's got a weird exterminate node on Ceres

[gilded rose]

But whyyyy. It would've made so much sense...

[humble sierra]

You buy "Abyssal beacons" from your syndicates

[gilded rose]

Ugh. They had such a good opportunity but they had to make it difficult

[proper barn]

Dagaths face looked like this. I really want the prime to have a ghost face like the one on the right.

It would be so cool.

[gilded rose]

But that is creepy to be honest

[humble sierra]

Oh I thought you meant what she looked like as a Dax!

[humble sierra]

That's what the couple thought, too! That's why they had her face shot through with a laser!

[proper barn]

It's supposed to be so cool also it's supposed to be she's a horror frame.

[graceful swan]

She's a Halloween frame that's the idea

[proper barn]

Yeah what nem said.

[gilded rose]

Oh. Yeah that makes more sense

[proper barn]

I mean it was also the guilt/her becoming basically furniture and not having emotions anymore.

They where bored.

[proper barn]

Anyway dagaths hollow Lantern go listen to it.

[graceful swan]

Prime Dagath is probably gonna just be a gold ring where her face was and some other gold stuff

[humble sierra]

Yeah I doubt we'd get her face

[proper barn]

I'm hoping for ghost faces. Xaku was so different ajd we got a like void skeleton.

[humble sierra]

The missing face is a key part of the character

[proper barn]

Just give me GHOST FACE she'd still be missing it.

[graceful swan]

I'd just use that one helmet that sort of gives a face

[gilded rose]

Pumpkin head

[graceful swan]

Pumpkin Dagath when

[proper barn]

We've had non stop banger primes.

So like I just expect more bangers.

[tall echo]

But if dagath gets a face we won't have funny mustache placement anymore

Forehead beard is funny

[gilded rose]

But like... A jack o lantern helmet...

[proper barn]

You can't put a mustache on a ghost face.

So it would still go there.

I'm thinking like a face that flashes up not even all the time.

[humble sierra]

Omg I can't wait for the Movember Protoframes

[graceful swan]

I always wonder if DE have to update frames to allow cosmetic stuff each new frame

[proper barn]

Just sometimes.

[humble sierra]

Yeah maybe when idle or using abilities

[proper barn]

Yeppers.

[gilded rose]

Ghost rider?

[proper barn]

Sure

Why not.

[tall echo]

Umbra is already levitating mustaches so I wouldn't be so sure

[proper barn]

Shhhhh its fine.

[gilded rose]

Who is the most powerful frame according to lore?

[glacial bough]

Depends

There will never be an objective answer

[gilded rose]

Yours?

[glacial bough]

Eh?

[gilded rose]

Who do you believe is the most powerful?

[graceful swan]

The one you’re using

[gilded rose]

I'm Bout to start using Trinity. But my favorite is Sevagoth. However I like Komei... So no.

I use everything I can get my hands on

Unless you mean "You are the main character. Therefore you have plot armor"

[glacial bough]

In terms of scale, it's probably Nova

[chrome rivet]

Lore wise, are the Hex aware they are in a timeloop after the good ending?

And do they have their memories presenved each loop?

[glacial bough]

Yes, they're explicitly aware

And Drifter chooses if they remember a loop

[chrome rivet]

Oh ok. I thought that the Remember a loop thing is only there if you want to keep your romance with a Hex member or not

Good to know it's actually integrated into the lore

[tame radish]

So our world is hell and the void is heaven? we are demons, the void has angels "you can't kill the devil tenno but you can send it back to hell"

[left oyster]

Lore wise are we the only Tenno in the system?

[glacial bough]

We aren't

[left oyster]

So do the other Tenno also have their other half drift/tenno too?

[glacial bough]

They only have an operator

[gilded rose]

Remember how many times you do a survival mission and lotus is "A lone tenno operative is getting information"?

[left oyster]

Mm

[gilded rose]

Also! I want some lore behind Clem. He's a defective grineer, I know that much

[left oyster]

So in that case why was the system so easily taken over by narmer when we died? What stopped the others from fighting them?

[gilded rose]

Plot

[proper barn]

When Ballas says that he means the void.

[left oyster]

Khal’s story should’ve been Clem’s Ngl

[proper barn]

the void is both heaven and hell to different people.

[gilded rose]

But kahl was good nonetheless. And he opens up a whole new mission set

[left oyster]

His weekly missions aren’t that bad

What DE should do is expand on the “Tau” concept

[gilded rose]

If I remember correctly, the tau system was were the sentients became sentient and rebelled against the Orikon to prevent them from taking over another system

[humble sierra]

Metaphor

[humble sierra]

Then it'd be over in 2 seconds

Narmer wouldn't have been able to take control if Clem was in play

[gilded rose]

So it would have been really cool to expand on it and show a potentially new And even more dangerous enemy. The very reason sentients became what they are. It would've also given us another system to explore.

[left oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/word-oh-thats-why-realization-wow-gif-10000098

[gilded rose]

And perhaps give us something that was new? Like "This isn't a frame, but you can jump into this odd Eldritch entity"

[left oyster]

Ik I mean we should js get a whole new system,enemies, etc, basically warframe2

[humble sierra]

Soulframe is just the Tau system

[left oyster]

I like how to think

[gilded rose]

Yes and no? Let's look at it like this. Suddenly we're back in time with characters that are just the same as us. Only difference, older and more ancient enemies.

That's the whole premise of Hex

[glacial bough]

Because taking the player out means the other Tenno never existed

[humble sierra]

But it's not like we were erased from existence

[gilded rose]

But what if... Like... We become more connected to the sentients?

[glacial bough]

We sort of were

[humble sierra]

We were just trapped in the void, it's not that our previous actions didn't occur

[glacial bough]

Not erased, but temporally removed

[left oyster]

Nr we should js get a quest where we have to interact with hunhow in some way and he opens up a way to the tau system it would be a good way to bring him back in the story

Not back in time js present day tau

[glacial bough]

Yes and no. As long as we were trapped in the loop, Our main action in taking the deal was null and void

[gilded rose]

Yeah. And include sentients a bit more than the occasional enemy. We were both created by the Orikon. There are links there that could be explored. Tbh, sometimes it feels like the sentients aren't that big of an influence despite being an ancient enemy

[humble sierra]

Where's the proof?

[glacial bough]

The Operator report where it gets explained

[left oyster]

But he never “took us out” he js sent us back in the void and even if we died the other tenno would still be alive🤨?

[glacial bough]

Ballas explicitly did

He trapped the player in a time loop of their own history

[left oyster]

I think that was just the voids doing, ballas js sent us there

Does ballas even have the powers to do that?

[glacial bough]

No, it's because of him

We don't know how he managed it

[left oyster]

That doesn’t rlly add up ngl

Needa see that in writing ngl

[humble sierra]

The Tenno’s personal timeline has been disrupted. Knowing he cannot kill the Tenno, Ballas has opted to imprison them within their own history. The Tenno will be unable to escape this loop without the paradoxical intervention of an outside force.

[left oyster]

Thanks

[humble sierra]

Nothing here suggests that the Operator being trapped in time means that all other tenno were rendered powerless

[left oyster]

Bingo

[left oyster]

Which brings us back to here

[glacial bough]

It's the paradox it creates. Trapping us in our own time means the deal is in Limbo

[humble sierra]

Is there anything in game that suggests that?

Because from everything we've seen there's no reason why one person being temporarily— and temporally— disconnected would remove the impacts of their actions

Are you suggesting that? Because that would mean none of the Tenno would ever have gotten powers, which means the plot of the game couldn't have happened to the point where the Warframes defeated the sentients originally or something

[feral cape]

It suspended the deal at the moment we were removed

At the moments when we're in the timeline powers work but ballas put us in the past and somehow trapped us there meaning tenno prime was gone till drifter popped us out

[humble sierra]

There's not really any evidence for it but tbh it just makes the most sense as to why no other Tenno stepped up after Act 1

[feral cape]

Well it's that or every other tenno is also trapped somehow

[old dome]

when tagfer says "the bell"... does he mean a diving bell or??

[humble sierra]

I think so

Entrati entered the Void using a diving apparatus made of Seriglass

[brittle siren]

btw, so most Entrati family dont remember their real name anymore

but, I think Grandmother does know what is her name, it just that she already given that to Dagath

[feral cape]

Well it's not her name

[autumn pagoda]

I mean personally the whole Duviri Paradox really muddled the waters and made the story even more confusing than it already was.

But I look at it as after the fight with Ballas, Ballas with the help of the Man in the Wall, the operator got trapped in an alternate timeline.

The Operator (teen us) is the version of us who was recused from the Zariman and got experimented on by the Orokin to control Warframes

And the Drifter (adult us) was the verison of us who didnt get rescued and was trapped in the Zariman nightmare and we used our void powers to escape that nightmare by creating our "safe space" pocket dimension, Duviri.

And through some void magic, the Operator and Drifter were able to bridge the two timelines and thus allow the Drifter to come into the Operators timeline (Narmer and all that)

Then Albrecht invented time travel by essentially using worm holes in the void to bring himself to 1999 but he brought a strain of the Infestation with him to Yes create protoframes and the technocyte apocalypse but mainly create a infested void helminth link to allow us to time travel back in time too

All in an effort to stop the Man in the Wall

[smoky solstice]

To be clear, there was already a technocyte plague pre-Entrati, he had nothing to do with it appearing, he simply exacerbated it

[restive river]

Ballas has no connection to the man in the wall

[autumn pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/are-you-sure-about-that-gif-17735709754501735355

[restive river]

Yes, pretty dang sure :p

[autumn pagoda]

Yeah youre right, I rewatched the Ballas fight and the Wall Man didnt appear until after Ballas died and the portal gateway thing opened up

[restive river]

In a deranged attempt to transport himself and his cult to Tau, Ballas opened portals between the Void and conventional reality on an unprecedented scale.

This has attracted the attention of THE INDIFFERENCE, whose freedom of action appears to have drastically increased.

He unintentionally attracted Wally’s attention
Which is why he came through

[gilded rose]

I'm looking for Dagath tomb.

Help?

[proper barn]

It's in your Dojo.

Press Q and it should be there.

[gilded rose]

?

[proper barn]

It is it under labs?

[gilded rose]

@proper barn Oh! I own this dojo and I've funded 90% of it in the course of... Two months? So I may be missing things. Especially since once I finished the labs, I started on the blueprints. I'm like... 75% done with all of it. I take a lot of pride in my work

[proper barn]

oh

did you make the dagath hollow?

[gilded rose]

No.... I kind of laser focused on the things that I knew would give me stuff. I don't even think I spared a glance

But hey. Another room to fund.

[left oyster]

Is Lizzie the helminth?

[brittle siren]

yes but she a smaller part of him

[fringe moth]

doesn't the drifter not have void powers till after the "New war"?

[brittle siren]

she from Helminth hivemind

[brittle siren]

it more simple than any multiverse franchise lmao, it not confusing, you just not fully understand it yet

[brittle siren]

yep

[lean garden]

Yes, all infested are One but they are also each of them

Lizzie is lizzie, but lizzie is also helminth, lizzie is also infestation

[graceful swan]

All Warframes are made with Helminth

[left oyster]

But Lizzie isn’t a warframe now is she…

[left oyster]

Wym?

[graceful swan]

She’s still infested with Helminth just like Warframes

[lean garden]

You watch star trek?

[left oyster]

Nope

[lean garden]

Dang

[left oyster]

Not that old 💀

No offense 🙏

[lean garden]

Hey man Im not that old eithee

Uuuuh think of it like this, lizzie is herself, but shes connected to a greater whole of infestation

[left oyster]

Yeah but what IS she like she is a guitar but what was she before that? Did the helminth js decide to become sentient after thousands of yrs?

[lean garden]

The helminth has always been sentient

[left oyster]

So like an arm on a body?

[lean garden]

Do you not have your helminth segment unlocked?

[lean garden]

If the arm had its own mind yes

[left oyster]

Ye

I call it Bob

[proper barn]

Yeah the helminth was always Sentient.

It always talked to you.

[left oyster]

Mmm makes sense

[proper barn]

Lizzie just has "cords"

[lean garden]

Woah there watch the captialisation someone is going to misread that

[graceful swan]

Helminth can talk eat and spit out Warframes

[proper barn]

Vocal cords

[lean garden]

Chords

[proper barn]

That's it.

[left oyster]

So Lizzie is like Eleanor in a way? Still has her sense of self but is still connected to the hive mind

[proper barn]

Oh she was literally a normal guitar and then Flare bled a little on their guitar and she became helminthfied.

[proper barn]

What? Lizzie is a guitar.

[graceful swan]

A talking guitar

[proper barn]

It's actually closer to flares like helminth baby.

[left oyster]

Ok ok so why does the guitar have its own personality?

[proper barn]

Well it's flares personality.

Kinda.

[graceful swan]

Flare split personality confirmed?

[proper barn]

No.

[lean garden]

She's kinda flare's "music"

[proper barn]

But also just talk to flare (and lizzie)

The Drifter and flare and lizzie talk it out and talk about this.

[old dome]

i dont think so...

[drowsy saddle]

Lizzie is Flare's shadow

[old dome]

...do yall ever think about what wouldve happened if jade never died in the quest?

if the tenno were able to save her...?

[drowsy saddle]

Ao3 would be out of AU material

though considering 80% of Warfarme on Ao3 is some form of Drifter x Hex member

[old dome]

idt theyve the power to heal that much dmg but. we also dont know much about their powers anyway...

[graceful swan]

Sirion would've probably had 2 parents

[drowsy saddle]

that goes against the laws of the warframe universe

every family must have at least 1 missing member

[old dome]

true that... its just that i think jade's own way of rebelling against the Orokin wouldve hit harder if she didnt die—because that was the whole point of her story, of her laying down motionless for centuries...

she did it out of love for her child & spite for ballas and all the other Orokin

[old dome]

or divorced parents

[drowsy saddle]

personally i don't care which outcome would have made the better thematic impact, her living would be the bigger middle finger to balsac

[old dome]

exactly!!

like. yeah he already died by the time babyframe came about but. its the thought that counts yk

[fringe moth]

why is getting to tou so difficult?

[graceful swan]

Because we don't have any working way to fly there

[drowsy saddle]

long distance FTL is the one tech that hasn't been achieved in warframe

[fringe moth]

can't we just void jump there?

[silk atlas]

Cut to The Zariman 10-0 Incident

[drowsy saddle]

theoretically yes

[silk atlas]

But now the Sentients are there and they hate humans

[drowsy saddle]

Yonta even figured out how to do it in 1 shot, but well... the Zariman is now a drain plug

[fringe moth]

then how did the sentients get back?

[silk atlas]

Some used the Solar Rail before they broke it and became infertile, others took the long way.

[fringe moth]

solar rail?

[drowsy saddle]

junctions

[graceful swan]

The places you defeat a frame at to unlock another planet

[fringe moth]

they had 1 from here to tou?

[sly ibex]

Do we know for sure that any took the long way? Because as far as I remember, we haven't seen any with their reproductive ability intact yet.

[silk atlas]

Wuddabout the Murex pools?

[sly ibex]

They created things, but those enemies didn't have the Sentient "souls" that drop from the others, so I think those are more technology than biology. That was the impression that I got, anyway.

And it seemed to make use of the Amalgam tech from Alad, so I think it's distinct from their regular reproductive method.

[silk atlas]

How'd you come to that idea?

[old dome]

...if frames retain some bits & pieces of themselves post-transformation & being 3d printed........ does that mean the copy jade we get from ordis remembers some things abt her original life?

[tall echo]

Those don't produce full sentients, only fragments

[graceful swan]

We take on some of the personality not the frame taking it on willingly

[sly ibex]

When we kill full Sentients, they drop their "soul," or "essence." They can be reconstituted by another Sentient picking it up, but it fully restores our health and energy if we pick it up.

[hoary vapor]

Hmm... is there any other On-lyne lore that I'm possibly missing? I'm not talking about the Coda or Aoi's emails. But rather stuff like how Zeke hates pizza and that the 4 boys are protective of Packet.

[buoyant yarrow]

Zeke probably hates pizza because thats all they got to eat. Especially with the big bytes gig

As for Packet, he's Just the youngest and alot of People pick on him.

[white venture]

Do we know anything about the Infested's capacity for space warfare? I like comparing the Flood from Halo and the Infested. I love the Flood but I feel it would be an extremely difficult fight between them because of just how much more horrifically virulent the infested is. Like yes the flood can infect all it touches but it's limited to only biological life forms (exception is logic plague which corrupts AI . More like advanced arguments and gaslighting the AI into turning against it's creators) and even then it's only vertebrates that have the most use for combat forms. Much later stages though has biomass created directly into pure forms. The Infested however can infect and utilize literally anything. Biological and mechanical. And in the techrots case, it appears you don't even have to physically interact to be one infected. But the Flood has the ability to control space craft but only with the assistance of minor hiveminds on the ship. Later stage hivemind intelligence though can direct these minor ones into extremely coordinated fleets. But, what can infested do? Are they just limited to creating a hive out of a infected ship? Or would it be potentially more like the Jordas situations

[tall echo]

The infestation can just subsume entire ships and reshape them to be more useful to it, like it did with the jordas golem

[white venture]

They can control them without the need of a subsumed cephalon?

[silk atlas]

They couldn't until Alad screwed it up and made the Mutalist stuff

[tall echo]

It's heavily implied that the mutalist strain existed before salad's stuff iirc

Even the ancient techrot strain utilized technology

[white venture]

Orokin basically bred the mechanical virulence out of the known technocyte strains into what's around in the current era. Alad basically turned them genes back on. God only knows what the technocyte is fully capable of if it's interstellar in origin possibly like the technocyte of Dark Sector. Imagine what an entire star system is like being unified by the infested. Probably some eldritch insanity

That's what worries me with Sayas Visions. Saying there's ancient infested below the ocean. Just like the technocyte of Dark Sector before humanity found it and tried making things with it

[lean garden]

interstellar in origin can be ruled out, warframe has a no aliens rule

[white venture]

So nanite lab leak type scenario more likely?

[lean garden]

Something something the techrot needs to evolve into the infestation

[white venture]

Probably explains the insane calmness of the government. Not a "NUKE THE ALIENS BEFORE IT SPREADS" it's a "Hey get a beer and watch this"

||plus the ORO revelations now I just remembered||

[graceful swan]

Oro revelations?

[white venture]

Minerva talks about them and it seems hinted they are the ancestors of the Orokin

A group of extremely wealthy people connected to corporations and laboratories that wish for a new world order and the lower class peasants beneath to "kiss their golden feet"

[drowsy saddle]

Someone call Johnny silverhand we got some corpos to flatline

[graceful swan]

Someone call John Warframe quick we must stop this before it happens

[drowsy saddle]

what if we end up nuking the 1999 timeline so hard that instead of leading to the warframe timeline it leads to soulframe 🧠

[white venture]

I'm very curious that the animals we see in 1999 arent just simply alternate earth animals but really the beginning of ORO's biological manipulation and they got sent out in the wild. Kinda like de-extintion of Mammoths but making new animals. In the kids museum there's literally dragon things in the terrariums

[tall echo]

Techrot is already infestation, just slightly more primitive

[white venture]

Kinda crazy watching all this going down in 1999 and knowing the end. The nuking of hives at the north pole and all that

[drowsy saddle]

Brazil is already a hellhole, now there's dragons?

[white venture]

Ah yeah 18th radiation war was nuking the "arctic hive cluster"

[hexed oxide]

what does it say here ?

[gilded rose]

Have they actually made a language out of it?

I believe they did something like that with Grineer, Orikon, and Corpus. But they never actually thought people would decipher it. (From what I've heard)

[graceful swan]

The operating system could not complete
the requested action.
Try again later.

[gilded rose]

There's an actual meaning?

[lilac aspen]

Yeah there's an actual chart to translate the language

[graceful swan]

Its Orokin

[tall echo]

Every language can be deciphered

[graceful swan]

Which is English

[feral cape]

"Advanced arguments" when I program my ai to say la la la I can't hear you
The infestations ability for space combat is pretty much limited to what shmuck is dumb enough to fly a ship at eris

And hoping this schmuck doesn't have a scorched earth policy

[old dome]

sounds more like the modern day (ish) Orokin than. ancestors of them......

like. a more modern interpretation of the far-flung futuristic Orokin empire than their ancestors

[feral cape]

I have beef with the logic plague because i think its the stupidest thing ever and I'd prefer the flood just be able to digitize itself

[white venture]

Precursors had some wack psychological stuff that makes the mind a playground for them. I know precursors are a more later lore addition but it kinda helps the earlier logic plague make a bit more sense. Eldritch aliens that can melt brains and bend reality but being corrupted into the Flood pretty well nerfed them

Like, Ur-Didact basically contracted it from the Timeless one messing with his head

[feral cape]

You can have the most bullet proof argument in existence but if everytime you talk I say la la la I can't hear you you can't convince me of anything

[white venture]

That's kinda the problem with the Precursors. You can't not listen to them. Though AI wise vs the organic version I don't really know. Though I guess lock anyone up for 100,000 years hearing the same things over and over can probably wear you done. But, Cortana it was a whole lot more visibly intrusive. Almost like interrogation. Miracle honestly she even held out for as long as she did. Because it is known he did interface with her data wise. But how is never explained or really ever touched on again.

Like yes he was using philosophical gymnastics but it acted more as a distraction as he ransacked through her data without her noticing for a while

Human Weakness is a crazy one

[feral cape]

Why cant you just ignore precursors

What about them prevents me from just yelling really loudly whenever they try and talk or just ignore them

[white venture]

Because they go inside your brain. Like an Elder God they can just easily overpower it and restrain you mentally. One of their punishments for people was just simply sharing knowledge and it drove people to suicide

Plus they literally created everything in the galaxy so they know how their creations work

[feral cape]

Thats not longer an argumentative thing that's just mind control

Everything i see about the logic plague is just an argument so well constructed the ai feels so compled to join the flood

[white venture]

I'm also meaning the precursors ability to compel in general

[feral cape]

So they have mind control and its not an argument

[white venture]

"Not an interview. A deep, burning brand. An upwelling of hidden genetic contents... So many things I would never have imagined. Things I cannot repeat, lest I lose what remains of my sanity, my Warrior soul". That is Didact recounting his experience with the Timeless One. You get told things, knowledge and philosophy shared. Not completely mind control? I'd say more like brainwashing

(that's from Silentium)

The irony with Ur-Didact is that he didn't wish for Flood victory because of this but his actions due to the corruption would still help lead to the downfall of the Forerunners. Especially making him into a monster with the composer. Essentially doing the very thing the flood does to his own people and innocent humans by stripping them of their individuality and form and reusing them for war into a nameless husk

[whole dragon]

is temple they/them because of nonbinary as a single person or because of plurality? my friend is very solidified on the second one and i sort of agree and disagree with them

[woven coyote]

Flare is nonbinary
Lizzie uses she/her

[whole dragon]

That's the thing i say as well but apparently there's an interaction that implies they always felt like multiple people? which i get is like stage persona and real person but still

not saying this is a bad thing alone

or at all

idk bad start to me on this server

[humble sierra]

Nope, you're asking questions about something you're unsure of, and that's always the right way to go about things

Flare was non-binary even before being exposed to the Techrot

[whole dragon]

right okay

[woven coyote]

Also lizzie constantly uses they when reffering to flare

[whole dragon]

i haven't gotten a lot of interactions with them just yet, I'm just trying to get to max standing with the Hex first lol

[north ferry]

Yeah Flare mentions having a 'stage character' but that's the extent of that.

[woven coyote]

Btw temple is flare's stage name

Think aoi mentions it in the group chat that talks about their arrival
Like "they are temple, from temple and the [forgot the rest of the band name]"

[sick nebula]

Temple and the Rippers

Speaking of, I just had a chat where I found out that... apparently nobody knows where the infestation came from?

[woven coyote]

You mean drifter saying that?

It would track with the orokin not only keeping secrets but erasing chunks of history

[normal mountain]

Or maybe people genuinely didn't know in the first place, and the Orokin erased history to cover up the fact that they're not all-knowing

omg it's a conspiracy!

[woven coyote]

Lol

I mean there is the precedent of the zariman cover up

Still funny that through all that bs the game of komi survived

[smoky solstice]

ok the whole one conversation per day thing is really something when the conversations all last for a grand total of having like 1 or 2 dialogue options each

I didn't even have a dialogue choice with kaya, she just monologued

and then went offline

story of my life kinda but still

[woven coyote]

In a new playthrough you would have everyone wanting to chat

[smoky solstice]

hm?

[humble sierra]

If you reset the timeline, all 9 chats would be available

[smoky solstice]

oh

it wouldn't really work that way though

because you only get the new protos at rank 4, and can only chat with all of them at rank 5, rank 4 only unlocks flare

[woven coyote]

Fair
Still gives some leeway until you finish the first 6

[humble sierra]

Yeah but the ranks don't reset if you reset the relationship anyways

[quick wadi]

Temple and the Templetons

[woven coyote]

You are late

[quick wadi]

Its never too late for a better band name

[smoky solstice]

not really bothered by that

just tantalized, although it does seem like I'm coming up on the end here

at trusted, ig there's only one more tier to go til the story ends with the new ones

will probably finish over the weekend? we'll see though

this game does a real good job at that btw, most games you wanna know the story you just do stuff, warframe always leaves me wanting more

not even saying that as a bad thing, it's kinda like people used to watch TV shows, can't binge through it so you just gotta wait

[humble sierra]

I think by next Friday, from memory

[smoky solstice]

don't get that experience often nowadays, except ig waiting for a new season?

[smoky solstice]

there's still 7 more conversations??? it feels like it's coming up on the crescendo

or is this for the people who picked the option to go through each line for each tier before ranking up?

[humble sierra]

Hm probably less

Can't tell from memory but there's at least 4 significant chats with Kaya

[smoky solstice]

I mean

there have already been significant chats arguably

and the end is gonna have the most probably, considering she takes a while before she even gets to a point of having actual conversations really

[humble sierra]

I meant "more", the chats are all datamined and can be read on Kimulacrum, and there's 4 more chats that I can think of which are essential to her story

[smoky solstice]

oh you checked those?

did you somehow do it without spoiling yourself

or did you just not care about experiencing it in game so decided to just read it all for the plot

[humble sierra]

I was having so much fun with the chats that I couldn't resist continuing and spoiling myself out of the experience in-game

[smoky solstice]

lmao, relatable, but I managed to keep myself in the dark

[humble sierra]

I only looked at the full flowchart and consequences after a full 'playthrough' though

[smoky solstice]

well I kinda had the chat with kaya I just had today spoiled but that's about it

and even then not entirely

[humble sierra]

Oof

[limpid crane]

So that's why Kaya wants to leave 1999

[brittle siren]

Wait so
Why the Veil give Drifter Lotus voices?

[brittle siren]

Idk keep talking to her
My guess is she don't want to live in this uninterested timeline

[feral cape]

From what we can tell the veils lock onto a metaphysical aspect of whoever there on rather than a physical one drifter and tenno metaphysically are the same guy

[humble sierra]

They admitted it was a developer oversight

There should be no reason the Drifter sees the Lotus

Which is probably why it didn't work

[brittle siren]

yeah it should be like Wally voice or our parent, friends voice

[humble sierra]

Def one I dithered on 🙂 ... ultimately went with that yep. Veil is not eternalism-aware. Felt it was more important the audience understands the deception and reinforce known characters than to muddy with things not yet experienced.

https://mobile.twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/1472976085130350596

Steve Sinclair (@sj_sinclair) on X

@StallordD Def one I dithered on :) ... ultimately went with that yep. Veil is not eternalism-aware. Felt it was more important the audience understands the deception and reinforce known characters than to muddy with things not yet experienced.

X · Dec 20, 2021, 5:03 PM

[humble sierra]

Hearing our father's voice would've been interesting

[brittle siren]

though yeah the OP did fall into the void, they could accidently overlapped to each other when Drifter leave duviri

[humble sierra]

We know they were close since that's why Wally chooses the "kiddo" pet name

[brittle siren]

imagine that DE give the plot twist that our father still alive

and is an Orokin

[humble sierra]

Also would've made the Veil more effective if Ballas was offering to replace our father

[brittle siren]

also a question
why Drifter want to save Lotus? Because her hand help them in Duviri? How did they know so much just like the OP?

another one: how the Cephalon on Zariman can teach multiple class all at once?

[humble sierra]

Teshin told them the brass tacks, a couple of his lines imply Drifter needs to repay a debt or something.

[proper barn]

WAit no

thats' not what they Said.

They said okay the veils did that cuz it sees us as the operator

[humble sierra]

I got the tweet from Steve right here.

[proper barn]

that is what i said?

[humble sierra]

Also I guess it's not an oversight but intentional plot hole, it's for the audience not for the characters

[tall echo]

It's. Not a plot hole either

[proper barn]

if it's not aware it wouldn't know if we where the operator or not.

[north ferry]

Yeah, also, It's not like the Drifter isn't invewted in of Lotus, considering how invested they are in healing her.

[proper barn]

They dont know her name though.

[quick wadi]

Do you think lettie wears blue medical gloves over her warframe suit or her suit just ended up having blue hands

[whole dragon]

it's definitely medical gloves

also i forgot they're normally blue because my palette on her makes them yellow

[nocturne valve]

Flare is saying something about "she's listening". Is he talking about Lizzie?

He's yet to talk about it

[lean garden]

Yes

[lean garden]

Sounds like youre a number of days behind

[humble sierra]

Also just an FYI, Flare (and Temple) goes by they/them

[nocturne valve]

Ya, I was a bit busy. Got on as I heard of motovyre 60% bonus this week

[nocturne valve]

Ohh, got it

Lizzie sounds so upbeat when I'm playing as Flare.

[drowsy saddle]

"We quiver in harmony with our beloved Flare"

Flare you do not know how lucky you have it

[proper barn]

their.

[proper barn]

oh you already got it cool beans.

[nocturne valve]

Sorry. Again

[proper barn]

No need to be sorry.

if it just you didn't know or a mistake.

[nocturne valve]

If I remember right they said that they don't want to fight, thier legs feel like jelly. Don't remember the whole convo. What is it about?

[proper barn]

Lizzie is she thought which is funny.

[nocturne valve]

It would be cool to have a sentient guitar. Imagine the adventures

[drowsy saddle]

Until it bodyjacks you to jumpscare people

[zenith valve]

whats the name of that corpus woman from ade shadows

[nocturne valve]

Xeto?

[old dome]

...during the sacrifice,, who was the version of ordis that called operator "starchild"??

[drowsy saddle]

Factory default

[old dome]

a more feminine voice than ordan's glitchy deep voice...

[old dome]

so if ordis wasnt there at all,, thats who we'd have gotten??

just. some ai?? not a cephalon??

[drowsy saddle]

Factory default Ordis

[old dome]

...?? sorry im not following

[drowsy saddle]

Ordis, but without his personality

[humble sierra]

Ordis but it's exclusively the programming

Most cephalons have their original personality and then the Orokin precepts imposed on them

[muted mango]

This might be a crazy idea but
What if the man in the wall
Is a personal creation for everybody who comes in contact with it feeding off their memories to make a mimicry of them
We created our own biggest enemy and it is a void leech

[drowsy saddle]

well abrecht is the basis for wally, all his fears, and negativity is what created wally

[proper barn]

Ehhhh in the Kim messages it says that it might be Ancient.

Cuz the Red Veil said it was.

[drowsy saddle]

perhaps as a concept, but its current incarnation is heavily linked to Albrecht

the canvas was always there, Albrecht was just the first to color it

[proper barn]

Yes and no? Like that's what it kinda is but also the whole void feeds off of emotions and mimics you.

[proper barn]

I'm saying current lore where the drifter has conversations with people about Wally like the Drifter our main character says "I don't know if Albretch created it or if it's ancient"

[muted mango]

That's a good point red veil and Rell kept the man in the wall locked up but was this before Albrechts void journey or after

[drowsy saddle]

well after

since rell only came in contact with wally during the zariman incident, which is well after albrecht's first contact with it

since ya know, the zariman has one of if not the original finger

[tall echo]

Very much after that's not even a question

[tall echo]

It has a copy

[muted mango]

Do we have any idea of how long it was we were asleep

[tall echo]

At least 1000 years

[muted mango]

So mitw is most defintly ancient by the time we arrive on scene after waking up

[tall echo]

More like when we return to the scene

[proper barn]

After.

[muted mango]

So when we go back in time as the drifter are we working of future time (when we came from) to call mitw ancient or from 1999

[tall echo]

Future time

[hybrid silo]

I don't want to ruin Aoi friendship with me so i give up on asking her if she ever do it with Arthur.

What did she respond if you keep pushing?

[winged flume]

Isn't there a track in Warframe where it's the melody for "This is who you are" but with softly sung Voidtongue lyrics?

[tall echo]

Why would you even want to know that

[winged flume]

Found it, it's the Lotus Eaters track, of which DE won't let me share here.

[humble sierra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ8muS2MOZs

[feral cape]

Those arnt mutually exclusive

Wally can be some ancient consciousness that drifted amongst the void and also have its physical form created by albretch

Given it seems albretch introduced form entanglement and energy to the void given it has those now and before it didn't

[humble sierra]

Entrati might not have created it entirely but it seems he gave it shape

[drowsy saddle]

like i said, canvas was always there, entrati was just the first to paint

[humble sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

Anyways

Names with historical lore?
Sedna has the nodes Rusalka and Vodyanoi, like Neci and Viktor in 1999
Deimos has the Lephantis boss fight which is the name of that one guy in one of the Duviri tablets
Testudo is the name of the Netracell "node" and also the government name of the Techrot virus?

[drowsy saddle]

Rusalka is the name of the Soviet Spy ship in black Ops 1

[humble sierra]

Yeah apparently all nodes on Sedna are named after mythical water creatures

[tall echo]

Rusalka is named after a water goddess iirc

[drowsy saddle]

water... goddess... WAIT WHAT IF NECI IS PROTO YARELI

[tall echo]

Testudo is what people started calling the techrot at first bc it manifested as shell-like patches of skin on a person

[tall echo]

No.

[drowsy saddle]

i know, but funni

[tall echo]

Unless viktor becomes proto hydroid and I can't see that happening

[drowsy saddle]

we're entering skong posting levels of conspiracy

[humble sierra]

Prevailing theory I've seen is that there'll be another story update before Tennocon where we find Neci

this update will include a new Scaldra themed Warframe and Neci will be the Gemini skin for that

[drowsy saddle]

gasframe

[humble sierra]

tbh I don't think it makes a lot of sense having
A) Scaldra themed Warframe
B) Neci as a playable character

but I guess it would be neat

[drowsy saddle]

im excited for just about anything tbh

[winged flume]

I found the Band Camp link on the Wiki but it wouldn't let me share the link here, for some reason.

Aren't Scaldra, like proto proto Grineer?

[tall echo]

Visually, yes. Lore-wise, no

[graceful swan]

They aren't related to Grineer

Grineer were probably created way way later by Orokin

Grineer weren't even made to be soldiers

[drowsy saddle]

grineer were tools

the final form of the power drill you keep in a case somewhere in your shed

[restive river]

Def were, they’re a clone army originally made for construction

[graceful swan]

Grineer were builder slaves

[restive river]

The Grineer didn’t start as a military
Also Scaldra’s a cult, they aren’t the same

Like one is a religious cult
The other is a buncha clones serving the last of the Orokin

[drowsy saddle]

technically based on what Minerva said, Scaldra is a precursor to the Orokin

[restive river]

Well whoever’s really behind them, yes

Iirc she mentioned multiple governments were involved

[drowsy saddle]

so in terms of where they stand in the heirarchy, they would be grineer, blindly loyal to their golden lords

[humble sierra]

I saw a flash of that lmao

stupid bot

[restive river]

Eh, they’re more about Dualism, Sol and Lua

Not whoever is in charge

Plus the Grineer are geneticially engineered to obey

[graceful swan]

The only thing Grineer and Scaldra have in common is they use guns

[restive river]

And chemical weapons

[humble sierra]

Viktor, however, seems like he's able to gaslight the soldiers into thinking that what he wants is what Sol & Lua want

[restive river]

Yes
But I doubt he’s truly in charge

[humble sierra]

Yeah even Neci was just a Major

there's probably some General we might never get to see

[restive river]

Or maybe we will
Who knows if 1999’s story is over entirely

Who knows where we’re going next exactly

[graceful swan]

There's the High Command that was mentioned

[winged flume]

so I was sort of right, also, I still have yet to play the Hex. Might do that this weekend.

[hybrid silo]

Please 👉👈

[graceful swan]

If you really want to know you could always answer your own question on Kimulacrum

[hybrid silo]

What is kimulacrum?

[graceful swan]

Has all Kim convos

[jagged forge]

Hey people! Is it explained in any capacity how the Technocyte Coda travels through time?

[lean garden]

Not particularly

They track our void infused dna but they dont specify what that means for them

Im hoping it will be answered in the next devstream

[jagged forge]

There are some really interesting artifacts close to the Stadium in the confrontation, aside from the whole Stadium itself, and that kinda tells me it's maybe a little bit more complex than "they travel through infestation", like a signal sending their information through time

Either that or the infestation really is eating a LOT of things and sending them through time, like it apparently did to the Drifter

[lean garden]

Such as?

[jagged forge]

There's a yellow bus in space, close to some Stadium debrees, and also modern day satellites covered in Infestation

[jaunty oasis]

I’m guessing the tech rot uses the coda worm on our person and comes to our space like how we went to 1999: through transference.

It’s a scary trick if that’s what’s happening because that means the infestation can do it.

[graceful swan]

They're connected to our Void signal

[north jolt]

I've heard an alternate theory where its not the techrot travelling into the future, but us (with our railjack) travelling to the past to defeat the techrot now orbiting around earth. Makes at least partial sense to me since the Drifter can already go back and forth in the timeline and even bring their own gear and belongings with them + the existence of things like satellite stations that don't exist in the regular railjack star chart

[graceful swan]

Do you know if Operator can go into the encounter because Drifter already is in the past so it wouldn't be us travelling to the past then

[north jolt]

...not to sound dumb, but what?

Oh wait nvm, sorry still tired. Afaik, but I think operator can?

[jagged forge]

Their point being if the Operator can do it, then it's in your current time

[north jolt]

I get that now

But I actually haven't tried using operator for the encounter myself though

[jagged forge]

I honestly believe that the infestation and it's hivemind transcends time, Sol knows how

meaning it can transport things into the past or future (whenever it exists) physically, as well as share information (as we see with Lizzie and the Helminth)

[north jolt]

I mean in a sense it kinda does, in that its always been around in some form or another. It being able to time travel is definitely possible so personally I could see it going either way

However, is it ever really explained WHY the codacytes try to flee into our future?

[graceful swan]

No, but things you do in the past can affect the future

[jagged forge]

That's not really an answer, I'm afraid

[north jolt]

Just like how people die if they are killed?

[jagged forge]

Why our time and not any other? If they exist since 1998 (iirc), they exist in every single second from then until our now

why "now" and not any other moment?

[north jolt]

If it turns out its us actually travelling to the past to finish off the codacyte, then in a way it makes a bit more sense. Its basically just fleeing to where it thinks we cant physically reach it, just like how Tim Curry goes to space to escape capitalism at the end of Red Alert 3

But if its actually travelling to the future, then it must be REALLY desperate to get away. I don't think it really realizes we have railjacks either in any case

But also might seem like a small detail, but the fact that the satallites and space debris more strongly resembles technology from the 90's/00's then anything actually used by Grineer or Corpus I think is significant too

But I guess its also possible that somehow, if it did travel to the future it might of also pulled or dragged some of that older tech with it?

[graceful swan]

It could be the Proxima of the 1999 earth

[woven coyote]

There is a line from lizzie that points to that tbh

[feral cape]

Is not just the coda taking the long way forward?

[lean garden]

They don't particularly confirm how they go, they track our dna and stuff but realistically this doesnt tell us what that means for transit to present

Like are they pulling a ||kaya||? Are they taking the long way?

[feral cape]

Got it

[feral cape]

Some bumblehead on tik tok is gonna try and argue the infestation is omnipresent because of this

And I'm gonna test that theory time ask sol to do something

[woven coyote]

Random nonsensical theory
Infestation is warframe's nurgle

[feral cape]

The hell is a nurgle

[silk atlas]

Warhammer 40k thing

[glacial bough]

Why would we think the Infestation can time travel when they have no connection to the mechanics that allow time travel?

[sage pivot]

Nekros have any lore yet aside from being spooky and being able to make shadows?

[lean garden]

their minds indicate some form of trans-temporal aspects

[glacial bough]

That far more just seems like Lizzie just connecting with the modern Helminth hivemind and getting that knowledge share

[lean garden]

which is the trans-temporal aspect

strain to strain comms through time means information transfer through time, information transfer through time opens opportunities for some form of transport through time

[glacial bough]

The issue is that would require them to be able to use the Void

Information transfer between itself is a different beast than time travel

[lean garden]

Not necessarily

because DE is being very vague with how its been working, its possible that coda data transfered to the present can be replicated

in essence the "computer virus" nature of the coda is thematically tapped

like those kids cartoons where some digital villain escapes through "digitising" themselfs and running away through the net

So you shank your coda so bad that they skedaddle, turn into data, transit themselves through the infested hivemind, badabing badaboom present time

Of course separately theres the possibility that the goober really just waited that long to find us

[feral cape]

I feel like this operates under the assumption that any temporal shenanigans absolutely requires void interaction

Also lizzies use of we seems to mean greater infestation and not just her helminth also her lines very much imply a level of trans temporal communication it's vex like

[lean garden]

which then the question is if theyre tracking the void infused DNA of ours, why did they wait that long when there were multiple opportunities for a surprise attack

Unless, they're scared lil pups and have been hiding away from us the whole time

[glacial bough]

I mean, it pretty much has? The Void is explicitly how one interacts with the laws of time and every interaction we have comes from it

I can't deny Lizzie could be a suggestion to the contrary

[lean garden]

I mean, very evidently our method of time travel to 1999 relied on some property of the infestation to transmit data between two times

because we did just make the 1999 helminth poop out an excal for the purposes of our hoping

[glacial bough]

Which required a connection through transference and extra Void shenanigans to establish the link first

[bold nexus]

Can someone please explain how we went from doing space terrorism to rizzing up half human half metal beings with cool abilities pls and how it matters to the story in general

[lean garden]

?

Infestation 3D printer evidently got a command from the future, infestation spokesguitar repeatedly mentions a trans-temporal aspect along with admission of some kind of "spying" (actual word got censored), so like the infestation at a basal level have a trans-temporal aspect somewhere in them that we exploited

[graceful swan]

Getting to know the Hex allowed you to save them

[brittle siren]

Does anyone found anything in Kullervo deluxe

They said it tie to the "prison" theme iirc?

[graceful swan]

Chains

[woven coyote]

There's like the anklet where the ball and chain would connect in the concept art

Kullervo's right ankle in the concept art

[devout bison]

I have a question,
When Ordan Karris got turned into cephalon ordis, do we know if the process destroyed Ordan karris' body?

personally i'd like to see Ordan Karris, beast of bones come back as a bone themed warframe

[brittle siren]

So you know that it's been like thousands of year, and the Orokin not gonna burried him, they most likely Jade Light'd him and leave nothing behind

[graceful swan]

They glassed him not Jade Lighted him

[devout bison]

time is an illusion, i will time travel back and scrape his corpse off the floor and transmute him myself

[brittle siren]

But the question is, what happened to the body after glassed? Is it become full glass, if so then it the same with Jade Light then

[devout bison]

isn't glassing, jade lighting and turning someone into a cephalon different things?

[graceful swan]

Yes

[brittle siren]

Well Jade Light burn the whole body, glassed is making body into Glassed, which destroyed what the original body has before

[graceful swan]

Glassing turns your body to glass ready to be turned into a Cephalon

Jade Light is a beam that insta kills you nothing left

[brittle siren]

The pretty much like death sentence beside Suda and some who volunteered

[graceful swan]

We see what Glassing can do to you listening to past Nightwave stuff

[brittle siren]

Also this beg the question: what kind of energy they use for Jade Light

[devout bison]

looking at the wiki rn, says they turned people into cephalons as a form of torture to warp and distort their minds

rather than the mercy of the jade light

[brittle siren]

I mean isn't Jade Light is kinda painful death?

[graceful swan]

No

[devout bison]

its quite quick i think

[graceful swan]

It’s instantaneous

[brittle siren]

From gameplay respective it is on Warframe

[devout bison]

but lorewise its a flash

ordis protoframe

i want it to be real

implant his cephalon mind into a warframe bod

[graceful swan]

Ordis would rather not be Ordan

[devout bison]

well he can never be Ordan again, he deleted all his memories of that time after he became aggressive to the operator

protecting the operator from his former self

i just want more characterization for ordis

[winged flume]

To be made a Cephalon do you have to experience the Jade light or is it something else. Ordan said that he felt a scintillating tickling/prickling feeling then he shattered like a mirror.

[lean garden]

jade light is the instant kill

[devout bison]

verbatim from the wiki

[lean garden]

glassing is the cephalon way

[devout bison]

The Cephalons were created by an Orokin Executor named Nihil, as a means to punish those who disobeyed the Orokin law during the Era. They were turned into digital intelligences with their souls sucked away from their bodies, which were transformed into glass, making it the worst possible punishment to suffer.

[lean garden]

wiki try not to use misleading language challenge (impossible)

"souls sucked away"

[winged flume]

So technically, Ordis can pilot Gara if he puts his mind to it.

[devout bison]

ah it seems like the body is turned to glass

[dire mountain]

As far as we know these just evolved naturally. They're still recognizable as creatures we know, but different. It fits into the 1999 history of being familiar but not quite

[devout bison]

so to make a cephalon it involves glassing as a sort of component, but is not 1 to 1 with it as nihil turns some randos into glass without digitizing their minds

[graceful swan]

Glassing is the start to the process

[devout bison]

no ordis warframe or protoframe or anything like that for me 😢

[dire mountain]

Oh that was yesterday 💀

[graceful swan]

lol

[graceful swan]

He was never infected to be turned into a Warframe

[devout bison]

i know, but i wanted to believe that they used the body of a great warrior to make a warframe vessel for the tenno to operate. i was just thinking of a way to get a bone based warframe with already existing lore

when is pazuul coming back

i liked erra i want bird bones back and to rip off my goats goat head

[lean garden]

dead body hard to make living frame

[devout bison]

I have faith in the infested, getting his mind sucked out doesn't necessarily mean his body dies, could just be in a vegetative state

[feral cape]

This is certainly an interesting inference from lizzie saying she can talk to the infestation past present and future

[restive river]

What different timeline??

[proper barn]

I think the helminth specificly is just really really wild.

cuz it's how we get to 1999 is like helminth connection between the vessels and the protos.

[winged flume]

If the Sentients are machines, why are they fleshy

[woven coyote]

Bcs made by orokin

Look at their towers

[proper barn]

are sentients fleshy?

where?

[woven coyote]

Goopy

[winged flume]

The body moves like rubber at some points.

[keen lava]

can someone explain the lore to me?

[proper barn]

What part?

[keen lava]

all of it

[proper barn]

there's a whole lot.

I can't do that give me a specific.

[keen lava]

the main story

[feral cape]

The sentients are full of goop

[proper barn]

you just said the thing thing twice.

please Zortenlo.

[keen lava]

the important stuff

[proper barn]

Zort

please i'm dying here.

[keen lava]

what's duviri

[proper barn]

that's just animation. most sentients are "metal" even Lotus she's still a mimic queen at heart.

[proper barn]

Oh that's easy. it's a Place that drifter made with their emotions. based on a book written by Mother (the orokin that gives you bounties in diemos). Also Drifter was trapped in there since the where a child like over 1000 years.

[keen lava]

what about the part where ballas does the whip

[proper barn]

what do you mean?

[keen lava]

when he goes "im ballasing it im ballasing it"

[proper barn]

https://tenor.com/view/pear-wiggle-pear-wiggler-pear-wiggled-get-wiggled-gif-7225222458756406813

do you have any actual other questions?

[keen lava]

well

just 1 more

[proper barn]

sure.

[keen lava]

Are you sure?

[proper barn]

yeah.

i love answering questions espeacially about lore.

[woven coyote]

I have the feeling you shouldnt have said that

[proper barn]

I mean if this person wants to be a jerk they can. But I just what is true.

[keen lava]

english isnt my first language

[proper barn]

sHRug. if sometimes people take advantage of that Idk i'm still gonna talk about lore to anyone that wants to know.

[proper barn]

you said you had another question.

@keen lava what is your question you wanted to ask?

[tall echo]

Maybe this was the question

[proper barn]

[graceful swan]

2 more questions, not 1 maybe

[strange turtle]

I think they were just saying invincible memes with that last 2

“Ballasing it” would be something I can’t talk about in this server, and “are you sure” is a clip from the show that’s been joked about a lot

[feral cape]

Well the blanking it actually originates from adventure time

[jagged forge]

Can I ask it, if they won't?

[proper barn]

i mean sure.

anyone can aks me any question about lore i love talking about lore.

[jagged forge]

Is there anything concrete on the relation between the Infestation and the Void? Other than ourselves, of course

[proper barn]

the infestation hive mind does know about the void and even about wally. parts of it are even afriad of it.

[jagged forge]

I mean, for some reason, it stroke me recently as a "Flood-Precursor" (from Halo) type of relationship;
I'm not sure why it came to me like that but the whole thing with the Vessels and all... seems there's more than "they're aware of eachother"

[proper barn]

aparece?

[tall echo]

What is that word

[proper barn]

also the infestation has never lied.

The Void has lied a lot.

[jagged forge]

Brazillian automatic correction, I meant "aware" lol

[tall echo]

Huh

[proper barn]

lmao

[tall echo]

Yeah they are more than just aware of each other, lizzie implies that at least the helminth knows about wally

[jagged forge]

There's room to think, right? Wally being able to manipulate the Vessels like we do, the Warframes and Protoframes being able to channel void abilities without Transference...

[proper barn]

WELL

in the lead up to Wisphers Laxtron Un Said that the infestation was retracing from all the places the void was

[jagged forge]

I was thinking about a more "straight" connection, I guess?

[tall echo]

Transference is not needed to use abilities

[proper barn]

cuz it wanted to not be noitced by the void.

[jagged forge]

Yes, but aren't they said to be void-chanelled abilities? Meaning what powers them is void energy, like that giant heart in Deimos funnels into our reality?

[proper barn]

Even normal Helminth talked about the operator being a "demon" and i think it says void even.so it always new.

[jagged forge]

Void demon is one of the favorites for "Mara Lohk" translation, right

[humble sierra]

I think one of the lines is "We fear none but the demon child" and another is "stay away void demon"

[tall echo]

It always knew about the void, that much is clear

[humble sierra]

"Void child" is more favored but that's a close contender

[jagged forge]

At least the Helminth, yeah

[proper barn]

it later Likes you more

when you use the helminth segment on it.

[proper barn]

also just the diemos infestd

why would they retract from all the places the void was on diemos?

[tall echo]

Void child

[jagged forge]

Fear of the unknown?

[humble sierra]

Yeah it's like when animals can sense rain

The infestation can sense the void without knowing it

It's probably subconscious

[proper barn]

it's not it was active.

that's what the lead up to the Wishpers launch said.

[tall echo]

The vessels are connected to the hex and presumably power them with void

[jagged forge]

How is that connection explained again, if you don't mind explaining? It's been some time since the quest came out lol

[tall echo]

They're connected

That's all we're ever told

[humble sierra]

Yeah they're actively avoiding it but they might not realize they're avoiding it because there's Void there, they could just know there's something to be afraid of

Unless whatshisname outright said so during the Nora interview, I can't remember off the top of my head, sorry

[jagged forge]

So... Albrecht went back in time, toke with him strains of the helminth infestation and blueprints of certain warframes, infected people with it to "perfect" Ballas' creation

[tall echo]

All infestation is at the very least aware of the void

[tall echo]

There wasn't anything to "perfect"

[jagged forge]

But the Vessels where created first, right? Going back on time was the last thing he did on our time

[jagged forge]

The madness that comes with the helminth strain, actually

he kinda brags about it

[tall echo]

He travelled back and forth multiple times

[jagged forge]

what

[tall echo]

That would still happen without the loop. Albrecht didn't stop the transformation, he just slowed it down drastically

[tall echo]

What "what"