lore-discussion

[strange plinth]

not the entire void
from what we know, albrecht likely created wally when he got there, full of paranoia and fear
we know it can reach into memories, as it calls albrecht the same thing his mother called him, and it calls us what our father called us
and its weakness is positive emotion

[graceful swan]

The Indifference isn’t the Void

[stiff fable]

It does seem to predate Albrecht is the thing

[elfin ore]

It gives me big winnower/voice in the deep vibes. Iykyk

Like a primordial force of nature

[stiff fable]

Yeah

I think my favorite description of him is an actual efreeti or djinn from Middle Eastern folklore

An entity from before creation

[digital grail]

https://tenor.com/view/stare-ghost-death-gif-27106641

It steals it rips it also looks off

It rips off

[graceful swan]

It’s a 50/50 chance for both being the case

[elfin ore]

That makes sense, also.. whoever at DE made the choice to have them still randomly appear.. in my orbiter.. my goodness that still scares me, it got timed perfectly with me walking back into the room once and I about flipped

[restive river]

It both predates him seems he created it
Or rather
It was nothing without him

[stiff fable]

I think it didn't have form until he entered the void

[graceful swan]

It really depends on how you define created

[restive river]

I can’t believe Albrecht Jahu’d Wally 😔

[graceful swan]

Wally could’ve not existed at all or could’ve just had no form at all

[stiff fable]

[restive river]

If he existed as a nothing like the rest of the void then the difference came when Albrecht gave him something to reference, a mind

Since the drones they sent in did nothing and found nothing

[elfin ore]

Wf lore makes my brain look like fishy boi (a compliment)

[graceful swan]

People may point to the old as stars thing but that could easily be explained by Albrecht seeing him a long time ago

[restive river]

Also since he’s made of void stuff he technically is old as stars
But
Y’know so is everything else since we’re stardust

[proper barn]

in the Kim chats the drifter says "i don't know what made it albretch or if the Red Veil where right and he's ancient"

i think also during Dante's Leverian it also talks about him being on cave walls.

wait i'm wrong where did i get the like "drawing on cave walls" qoute.

[normal mountain]

Well, if you watched Gravity Falls, I'd understand the confusion

[proper barn]

maybe

Also i have.

[proper barn]

this is still true though.

[normal mountain]

I mean, they're both eldritch horrors from beyond our dimension, so that's a perfectly reasonable mistake to make
Bill was on cave walls

[proper barn]

yee

[old dome]

i wish theyd do that but w umbra,,, just have him stand around in places you wouldnt normally see him in. menacingly. just randomly pops up in the orbiter.

[proper barn]

"Poor Dante. If only he had recited to me sooner the wrongtongued words he had heard. I could have told him, you know, that I had heard that language before. Once. Long ago. From the lips of Parvos Granum." "I told him: Dante, what you have found can never be brought forth. Parvos must never know of this.'' I am still on the Parvos is gonna be one of the next big villains we fight. Cuz there are too many things tying him to Wally.

like there's this and his whole origin story that he hears a "OTHERWORLDY VOICE" that only he can hear? Also cold below literally says like "devil in his eye"

[old dome]

inb4 parvos makes a deal w the devil to get out of whatever void limbo protea shoved him into to save his life

[proper barn]

PARVOS WANTED THAT VOID PLACE

it's his like Werid Base of operations.

He's very obsessed with the Void and entrati

and he even wanted Dante's stuff cuz it's so void related.

[old dome]

really?? huh. interesting.

[normal mountain]

I don't think we will
Unless we get a Parvos hologram for Sister stuff

Or if we do fight him, I doubt we'll kill him

[proper barn]

Yeah we probably wouldn't kill him.

But also we said that about so many characters.

[stiff fable]

Parvos is going to be an indirect threat like the queens

[proper barn]

the queens became a direct threat.

now the worm is a indirect one again.

also i still think we will see the elder in a new body later.

[stiff fable]

Yeah I'm thinking Witch is going to end up as a boss of some kind

[stiff fable]

Apropos of nothing but you could make an incredibly lore accurate Warframe AMV set to The Dark Sentencer by Coheed and Cambria

In the place where the blind truly can see
Hear my voice, dearly departed
I beg on my knees
It's been my pleasure to serve your disease

[restive river]

Speaking of Warframe AMV
Hey Kids could work for the whole Zariman/Duviri stuff

It Tore Your Heart Out could work for the Orokin and Wally?

[drifting mirage]

I wanna see someone take "This Is What You Are" in minor key for the Hex and Techrot and or Warframes tbh

[old dome]

in a light hearted way: youre gonna go far kid amv...
with a thousand lies and a good disguise / hit 'em right between the eyes, hit 'em right between the eyes! / when you walk away, nothing more to say / see the lightning in your eyes, see 'em running for their lives!

or in a dark way: the kids arent alright.
chances thrown / nothing's free / longing for, used to be / still it's hard, hard to see / fragile lives / shattered dreams.

(literally any punk rock from the late 90s-early 00s is so tenno-coded...)

[stiff fable]

Yep hahahaha

Actually if we wanted to be really funny Ghost lyrics work great

[old dome]

i dont listen to ghost but. yeah you probably can make their songs abt the tenno too...

like,,, yareli is so pporappimppam by sunmi & fancy by twice-coded

i think a lot about this stuff...

[stiff fable]

I can see through the scars inside you
I can feel the thunder that’s breaking in your heart
I can see through the scars inside you```

Oh yeah there's some Tenno/Warframe vibes there

[old dome]

oh,, thats the sacrifice quest alrighr

[stiff fable]

Cirice is a fantastic song

[swift steppe]

hes just schizo dont worry

[strange turtle]

Taco Seriglass Bell

[brazen nymph]

NO WAY

TESHIN THE TRAITOR

[tall echo]

[brazen nymph]

what is going on holy moly this got 1000x interesting

I swear Im gonna kill teshin the first chance I get

mf doesn't deserve to live anymore

[graceful swan]

Keep playing you might eventually change your stance on killing him

[brazen nymph]

I can't get past this stupid gold worm

[strange plinth]

right after the fall? there's a couple of raised rocks that the maw can't reach you on
you can also sprint at that point, despite the uh. leg.

[brazen nymph]

NOOOOOOOO I WAS AT THE END STAIRS

[brazen nymph]

how. the mf told me margulis betrayed/killed/didnt save the children on the zariman. then how is the operator alive

he's full of lies

[strange plinth]

iirc he says he has to undo what margulis did
something about opening a door or whatever
but he doesn't say what margulis did

[graceful swan]

Margulis did lie

[brazen nymph]

th he said smth like that

[tall echo]

Just stop yappin and play the quest

[brazen nymph]

I just have a question. what does this mean

[tall echo]

Nothing

Choose whatever option you vibe with most

[brazen nymph]

Eeeeh I'm gonna good-path "we had hope" or whtvr I always progress a vilian in games lol

[tall echo]

There's no good or evil

[strange plinth]

how reactive/proactive your choices are, i believe
more yin and yang than good and evil
but yeah, whatever choice you vibe with most is a good way to pick

[brazen nymph]

how am I supoused to stun the golden maw

[tall echo]

Void sling

[brazen nymph]

Guys just a question. Is teshin the tenno councelor/leader?

or just a guy like lotus

[graceful swan]

Just a person allied to the Tenno cause

[brazen nymph]

cuz he wanted to kill orokin but couldn't?

[graceful swan]

That's not the reason he allied but he indeed couldn't kill them

[brazen nymph]

THE GRINEER QUEEN IS DEAD

ez lil sis was weak

[tall echo]

One of them

[burnt light]

How many queens do they have?

[tall echo]

Two

[brazen nymph]

1 looks like a worm, ugly doll. the other 1 is an old hag useless without her staff

[errant pasture]

it's been a while since i've done witw

[brazen nymph]

she didn't lotus js told me she didnt

[errant pasture]

but if we see loid as a human, i don't want to imagine what otak looks like

[tall echo]

Lotus isn't all-knowing

[tall echo]

Well, unlike necraloid, otak is an actual cephalon

[brazen nymph]

idk who to trust anymore. One is Natah and the other one is a dax working for orokin and grineer queens

[errant pasture]

oh damn

nvm then

[tall echo]

The dax were orokin soldiers forced to fight for them due to the kuva

[strange plinth]

one is a dax forced to work* for orokin and grineer queens

[brazen nymph]

What exactly is kuva in contet of lore. I know that it's a material for rivens but in lore what is that

context of lore*

[errant pasture]

alexios where are you in the story

[tall echo]

Immortality juice

[brazen nymph]

The war within iirc. kuva missions after boarding the fortress

[tall echo]

You drink kuva, you replace a target's self and take over their body

[strange plinth]

some void-derived liquid that the orokin used for continuity
outside of that, we don't know much about it

[tall echo]

That is called continuity

[errant pasture]

oh damn you're early

[graceful swan]

“Margulis lied to you, a lie of omission. She did not cure the Zariman children - she erased them. My only hope is that truth still lingers inside you, buried within your mind”

[burnt light]

Honestly I sometimes felt during the Operators adventures everyone was either lying or hidden things from the Operator making them having to find things out themselves.

[errant pasture]

it's been like 5 years lmao

[brazen nymph]

this is teshin's words

[tall echo]

Teshin doesn't lie

[errant pasture]

https://youtube.com/shorts/A4ITTsLpT9U?si=bNaXW5rxN7VTAng2
speaking of cephelons

[brazen nymph]

what do you mean erased them XD. she used her own void powers and literally erased them or what

[tall echo]

Their memories

That's the whole thing with the cave sequence, you're unlocking your memories

[brazen nymph]

I knew that

[strange plinth]

margulis didn't have void powers, only the tenno
memories and record, essentially
forget the trauma and it never happened, right?

[graceful swan]

Teshin telling the truth helped us get our full powers

[brazen nymph]

Im driking yummy immortality juice 😍

[tall echo]

It's not yummy

It tastes like blood

[strange plinth]

stale blood too, i'd imagine
how long has it been in that scepter

[brazen nymph]

tastes like metal then?

[graceful swan]

Does a Cephalon of Scraps even know what blood tastes like?

[brazen nymph]

what happens if I don't remove my cyst at helminth guy on the orbiter

[tall echo]

I'm not made of scraps

[tall echo]

Nothing

You just have an ugly pink pimple on your frame

[strange plinth]

not much. grows for a week n sits there
you can infect other people's frames with it if they haven't sat in the chair with it yet
you can drain it (don't remember how) or remove it in the Funny Chair That Stabs You

[tall echo]

Drain through kubrow incubation

Helminth charger creation is kinda cruel actually

[brazen nymph]

I acn give it to my chesa kubrow?

[graceful swan]

Is anything in Warframe not cruel?

[tall echo]

No

New kubrow

[brazen nymph]

I got my first riven mod

[strange plinth]

tammpet
maybe

[graceful swan]

Wait till you accidentally get your first lich

[tall echo]

A lot of things

[errant pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/so-old-gif-27277116

cave sequence?

[tall echo]

[errant pasture]

back in my day

[graceful swan]

Have you done War within?

[errant pasture]

i just got out of a cryopod

[errant pasture]

yeah i'm finished with main story quests

i just started before the opening changed

[tall echo]

Bruh war within didn't change at any point

[graceful swan]

War Within has a cave sequence

[errant pasture]

oh what

i'm thinking about the opening

mbmb

[tall echo]

Nobody mentioned the opening

[errant pasture]

😭

[burnt light]

Been so long I forgotten what happened in the old quests

Think for a time I disliked the Lotus for a while

[graceful swan]

Guess they're worth a replay then

[burnt light]

Aren’t there some you can’t replay?

[tall echo]

All the important ones are replayable

[strange plinth]

most of the story ones are replayable
most if not all of the side/warframe quests are not
duviri paradox and hex are the two big ones that aren't replayable that i can remember rn
tho those are both becoming replayable on the 19th iirc

[humble sierra]

Correct

They confirmed that those two quests would be replayable with the update

Other big ones include Angels of the Zariman, Heart of Deimos, the Lotus Eaters, Veilbreaker, and Vor's Prize

[strange plinth]

really? angels isn't replayable but whispers is? its the same quest format

[silk atlas]

You'll never know what inane bugs you can encounter in a 12 year old codebase

[orchid spear]

Does it seem possible that narmer could or would make their own grineer? Or is it possible the whole veiling/conversion thing is deeply ingrained in their faith

[graceful swan]

Veils

[orchid spear]

I suppose the same question goes with the veiled humans and if they have kids, at what point do they veil them

[graceful swan]

Might be hard to veil a child

[tall echo]

Ventkids

[graceful swan]

Were the kids veiled?

[proper barn]

Yeah you see one

[drifting mirage]

;-; it is so sad

[tall echo]

Three

[restive river]

Don’t think Grineer have kids
And The Corpus are purpose-bred
As for Civilians I don’t think Narmer has been around long enough for this to happen but it probably has split up families, Narmer will veil anyone they can

[orchid spear]

i specified humans as in not-grineer, and yes the timeline is very funky like that

[tall echo]

Everything is human

[orchid spear]

eh, thats a question of semantics

[restive river]

Its not.

[tall echo]

Not really

[orchid spear]

i wouldnt consider the orokin or grineer to be true hominids

[restive river]

Grineer are human
Corpus are human

????
They’re all human.

[tall echo]

They are humans

[restive river]

There are no aliens
It’s all humans
Orokin aren’t even a different race

[orchid spear]

its a matter of speciation

[restive river]

From a species pov they’re all still human.

[orchid spear]

if a normal human and grineer cant breed then they are a different species, as definitions go nowadays

and the offspring has to be viable, like how mules dont mean horses and donkeys are one species

[tall echo]

Grineer can't breed in general

[restive river]

I don’t think the Grineer are fertile????

[orchid spear]

thats my point, yeah

its a completely different physiology

[restive river]

It
It isn’t

[lean garden]

I mean the issue then is does that make Sally from next door who is infertile no longer human?

[restive river]

[tall echo]

Breaking news: infertile people are no longer human!

[orchid spear]

apparently /s

[lean garden]

Apparently not!

[tall echo]

We will now call them; the others

[restive river]

Grineer, Corpus, Orokin, all human
Not different species
All
Human
To a degree modified but still human.

[lean garden]

Engineered clones of humans are still humans, even if they cant reproduce like humans

[orchid spear]

i get that you probably mean like, "morally" human, but i disagree from a biology standpoint

[tall echo]

Orokin aren't even like. Massively altered

[restive river]

No, I mean from a biology standpoint.

[orchid spear]

like, tibetan and arctic foxes are really close, different species

[tall echo]

They're just blue humans

[tall echo]

No, they are literally humans

[restive river]

Biologically they are still human
Just, to a degree, modified

[tall echo]

That's a major design decision in wf, there are no aliens

[restive river]

^

[orchid spear]

speciation doesnt impy aliens?

[restive river]

No aliens
No sub-species
All human

[orchid spear]

without even touching that alien just means foreign without picking up scifi baggage

[tall echo]

Not different species either just altered humans

[restive river]

Like this isn’t all tomorrow’s levels of modifications, they aren’t modified to the point they’d be different species

[tall echo]

If you jumped into a vat of blue dye and broke your arm a few times to make it a bit longer are you no longer human or just stupid?

[restive river]

Orokin at most have some visual modifications and modifications to their lifespan and health
Which
More so comes from their advances with biotech
The Grineer were made and modified to be a work force, but those modifications don’t make them an entirely different species

[orchid spear]

i suppose my stance on that depends to what degree the distinct orokin traits we see are pre or post natal

[strange turtle]

All post natal

As far as we know

[restive river]

Orokin isn’t a species
Or a race

[tall echo]

The corpus are just people with very weird facial hair growth

[restive river]

The Orokin would pick a body and modify it, taking it through continuity

[orchid spear]

is it not primarily tatoos?

seemed like it was

[lean garden]

people dont naturally come with one long arm and blue skin, there is big mod involved

[restive river]

The Corpus got weird hair and tattoos

[lean garden]

and funky glowing eyes at times

[restive river]

and who knows what tech inside

[tall echo]

I want eyes that pulse with light to match my speech

[restive river]

Ballas had to have been fitted with somatics to control Umbra

[strange turtle]

The modern definition doesn’t have to account for groups of clones of a species specifically made in vats to be infertile

[tall echo]

Hey remember that one singing console from the fortuna intro?

I'm glad that they're reviving the replay guy

[lean garden]

modern definition also includes the caveat that its not the catch-all for what is a species

[lean garden]

actually scratch that, that definition is 80 years old

and from what it seems from a paper written only 40-50 years after that definition, them bio eggheads still dont agree, because no single definition can accurate capture what makes a species

[orchid spear]

it remains a thorny issue

[silk atlas]

Point is, they're biologically human.

Even if the Grineer make the Habsburgs look well-bred.

[orchid spear]

it just seems we're operating with different definitions of human

but i suppose it hardly matters

[woven coyote]

Aside from corpus and drifter visage ink i think i havent really seen tattoos in game

[tall echo]

Your definition of human seems to be extremely specific. Like, excessively

[proper barn]

Orokin dye their skin

And like give themselves one big arm.

[fresh rover]

Are the Orokin not extra terrestrial? I thought they came to the solar system 30,000 years later and enslaved humanity?

My lore might be off though

[lean garden]

absolutely not, theyre humans

[silk atlas]

The only "living" things to ever come out from beyond the solar system were the Sentients, which were terrestrial in their creation.

[restive river]

Where did you get that even

[graceful swan]

Read the last sentence they said

[strange turtle]

my lore might be off though

Just a tad

[restive river]

I’d say it’s more than a bit off
Where does that even come from lmao

[strange turtle]

A smidge

[restive river]

Just a bit

[graceful swan]

Headcanon probably

[restive river]

Probably
:p

[north ferry]

I mean

[lean garden]

What do you mean

[north ferry]

It's close enough to the impression given. Somewhat culturally alien/inhuman and distinct from other human groups, did in fact enslave humanity etc.
Also could be confused by the Sentients, even if that's not their story either

They somewhat take on the same narrative role in the story as invading aliens. Although not the same thematic role.

[lean garden]

But the critical magic is that it aint aliens which is the point of contention

Ruling class dweebs appearing inhuman isnt necessarily a line to extraterrestrial-ness, but for warframe its a funky hefty jab at the ruling class being so out of touch they're even out of touch with their humanity

[north ferry]

Yup

[narrow orbit]

heyo a question about duviri

so the duviri paradox quest that we play takes place before the new war right?

[silk atlas]

No, during

[graceful swan]

Drifter and Operator got stabbed at the same time

[restive river]

You can play it anytime but the parasesis in the Drifter’s chest, Teshin being there and the Lotus’ hand arriving def imply it’s during

[narrow orbit]

honestly i dont remember that much about how the drifter even appeared in the new war, i played through that years ago

i know that drifter somehow ended up in duviri paradox after getting stuck on the zariman after refusing the deal with man in the wall

[quick wadi]

I think time is kinda wibbly wobbly in the void it's not like they line up perfectly but the paracesis moment kicks off the events of duviri.

[narrow orbit]

not sure how that ties into new war tho

[graceful swan]

Didn’t refuse the deal just didn’t get saved from it

[narrow orbit]

wym saved from it?

oh i see u mean when the orokin rescued the tenno from the zariman

[quick wadi]

Well the paracesis moment allows the drifter to escape the paradox in the end, which is how they get into the new war story

[proper barn]

It happens right when they get stabbed/the fade to black.

[narrow orbit]

i see

[graceful swan]

Operators was to save everyone Drifters saved everyone bar Drifter

[narrow orbit]

so drifter just got left behind by mistake?

[proper barn]

Not a mistake

[graceful swan]

Wally purposely didn’t allow Drifter to be saved

[narrow orbit]

why so?

[proper barn]

Cuz he's a elder God of chaos

[narrow orbit]

so he just did it just cuz?

[silk atlas]

Basically.

[narrow orbit]

no reasoning behind it? why him of all people and why did our operator get saved

[silk atlas]

Because Wally was feeling "nice" in the Operator's case

[proper barn]

The operator and drifter are the same person.

[narrow orbit]

no they arent

well yes but different realities

[proper barn]

No?

[narrow orbit]

so theyre not the exact same person

uh yes

[proper barn]

The split is only at the handshake exactly.

[silk atlas]

Yeah but them being the same person until the handshake is precisely the important distinction

[proper barn]

And the Drifter doesn't go to a new reality they just stay in the Void.

[narrow orbit]

yeah

[proper barn]

Also I was right about the Zariman being multiple Zarimans at once.

[narrow orbit]

wait hold up what do u mean same person until the handshake

[brazen nymph]

How are prime frames made?? From prime humans?

[narrow orbit]

are they literally not 2 completely different versions of the same person, same age and everything just drifter wasnt put in cryo sleep like the tenno so he aged

[narrow orbit]

they are either created that way or made into primes from their base form

[restive river]

No
Some start as primed
Some earned it

[narrow orbit]

depends of the frame

[proper barn]

Drifter was on the Zariman and stuck in the Void.

Until the duviri paradox.

[narrow orbit]

right and what happened there

[proper barn]

They made duviri?

Duviri killed them over and over.

[brazen nymph]

The duviri paradox happened there

[graceful swan]

How many Warframes do you think Itll take for DE think making more wouldn’t have been possible due to time constraints?

[lean garden]

Before the handshake there was 1, after the handshake there is 2

[narrow orbit]

yea but while this was all happening and drifter was on the zariman, operator was in cryo sleep, woke up, second dream events happened etc

[narrow orbit]

so before handshake drifter didnt exist or what?

[lean garden]

Pretty much

[north ferry]

I mean.. weird stuff

[proper barn]

They are literally the same person with this one diverging point.

[lean garden]

Twas a fork in the road

[proper barn]

When the deal was made everyone else except the Drifter got powers and got resuced. The Drifter was "sent" to a Zariman where they never got powers and never got resuced.

[narrow orbit]

hang on a sec what handshake are we talking about just to be clear

[proper barn]

Wally handshake

[narrow orbit]

ok makes more sense

i was thinking of smth else im dumb

[silk atlas]

If we want to be really detailed, the timelines of Operator and Drifter were literally the exact same events up to the handshake, with both timelines always having existed.

[lean garden]

they both existed by virtue of being the same damn timeline

[restive river]

Yeah they were literally the same timeline :p

[silk atlas]

Was it not that that the timelines were identical?

[lean garden]

No, its that it was 1 timeline

[restive river]

No, it was that the path diverged

[proper barn]

Drifter says in the kick messages they where the same until that moment.

[narrow orbit]

so basically during handshake man in wall just made another version of operator

for some reason

[proper barn]

One that stayed on the Zariman alone

Forever.

[narrow orbit]

until he escaped the paradox ig

[proper barn]

Yes but that's after like 1000 years.

[narrow orbit]

yes

[silk atlas]

Ah hell naw they're using Kik now

[narrow orbit]

how did he live that long

[proper barn]

Kim lmao

[narrow orbit]

void weirdness ig

[proper barn]

Void also they died over and over too.

[narrow orbit]

true actually

[proper barn]

Also the KIM messages prove gender is fake to the Drifter/operator.

Doesn't matter at all they are a being made of 90% void.

[narrow orbit]

yea theyre like not fully a person or smth

[silk atlas]

I'm pretty sure gender itself is just not important in the WF world.

Just in general, not specifically a point to Drifter/Operator

[graceful swan]

Irrelevant to wonder about not irrelevant totally

[narrow orbit]

cuz if im not wrong after duviri paradox drifter can like make time loops or smth?

[restive river]

Not make timeloops

[narrow orbit]

basically do what thrax did no

[proper barn]

Maybe

[graceful swan]

Drifter has never created a time loop

[restive river]

The Drifter takes control of the existing timeloop in 1999 and extends it to the entire year

[proper barn]

Well

[narrow orbit]

so how does the thrax fist thing work

[proper barn]

How can they do that?

Lmao

[restive river]

Conceptual embodiment?

[restive river]

He controls Duviri

[narrow orbit]

right

1999 isnt duviri

[restive river]

The Drifter does for a moment but
Gives it up to save Teshin

[proper barn]

The Drifter seems to have inate like "powers" cuz they where in the Void so long they can just do a few werid things.

[restive river]

Yes
It’s nothing like Duviri

[narrow orbit]

so how was he able to do the fist thing at the end of hex quest

and reset it to january again

[proper barn]

They and because they can.

[restive river]

The timeloop Albrecht made is likely derived from void-tech, the Drifter was pushed far enough emotionally and with their experience with timeloops it’s reasonable they took control and extended it along with resetting it, also allowing the Hex to remember

[narrow orbit]

im used to he cuz thats my character

[narrow orbit]

yea this makes sense ig

he cant create timeloops but maybe mess with existing ones ig

[graceful swan]

Albrecht is such a time violator

[restive river]

The Entrati in general tbh

[narrow orbit]

so how did drifter end up in duviri

did it just happe out of nowhere or smth'

[silk atlas]

Conceptual Embodiment, basically Void + strong emotions that aren't in control = making funny stuff real

[restive river]

They made it.

[silk atlas]

Ironically, Tales of Duviri was the book that was meant to help control your emotions so that this wouldn't happen.

[narrow orbit]

ahh so unintentionalyl made it basically

[restive river]

Can’t really control your own emotions so ye

[proper barn]

Also mother wrote duviri its why she narrates it.

[restive river]

Her narration literally starts every day spiral

[proper barn]

Also everyone can hear it.

Cuz when Albretch goes there he hears it.

[narrow orbit]

yes makes sense

[narrow orbit]

so about the ballas stabbing operator, and drifter being stabbed at the same time, how does that work

is it just because theyre the same person and they share that event somehow?

and how did that lead drifter out of duviri?

[fresh rover]

It's not, I generally have a lot of different information from multiple fandoms as well as research from a multitude of things that aren't fandoms at all.

I don't headcanon, I just forget and misplace information. But it's good to understand now that they're simply evolved humans and I'll probably remember that.

I replied late, but nonetheless I went up to get my answer.

I truly find Warframe lore interesting.

[sly ibex]

Lotus' hand is what ultimately led the Drifter out, I think. As for the stabbing, I think it was due to us falling into the Void, honestly. I feel like it "synced" things between Operator and Drifter, in a way.

[narrow orbit]

how so was it "lotus' hand"?

ohhh the stupif hand that dropped out of the sky

imdumb lol

damn i never made that connection wow

[sly ibex]

You're not dumb, you're fine. 😄

[narrow orbit]

i took a huge break all the way from angels of zariman and i just returned a few weeks ago and did veilbreaker, duviri etc so im trying to remember everything and piece all the story together

and the drifter zariman man in wall etc story is sstill blurry to me

but makes much more sense now

[sly ibex]

Welcome back! I hope you're enjoying Warframe again. 😄

[narrow orbit]

thanks i def am

[sly ibex]

Fortunately the quests are mostly replayable. >=3

[narrow orbit]

game is better than ever it was honestly the best time to rejoin the game

yea maybe ill replay or just watch a playthrough

[sly ibex]

I replay all the quests in order at least once a year. Cuz I'm a weirdo. XD

[narrow orbit]

maybe i should do that lolol

another thing,

during the new war, how in the world did drifter actually gain the void powers?

[sly ibex]

The Operator shared the power with the Drifter. At least, that's how it came across to me.

[narrow orbit]

that was a pretty confusing scene honestly

drifter got powers out of nowhere, drifter and operator switched places, and operator still didnt even know drifter existed

[sly ibex]

That's just part of the Paradox.

[narrow orbit]

fair enogh

[restive river]

Me when I share a piece of a giant wall dude with my alt self so I can go save them and them me :)

[north ferry]

Quantum Physics does tend to confuse people.

[cunning tapir]

Yeah, they do. I think the only part of a Quantum Physics book I'd understand: The cover.

[steel creek]

is the tenno a orokin or something?

[steel creek]

EXCEPT the lotus eaters duviri hex

[graceful swan]

Nope

[steel creek]

then why was a bunch of kids on a ship with the orokin?

[graceful swan]

They weren’t

No Orokin until Albrecht ever set foot on the ship

[steel creek]

wha

archmedian yonta?

[graceful swan]

She isn’t Orokin you just said her title

[steel creek]

arent archmedians orokin?>

[graceful swan]

No

[steel creek]

alr

what was margulis then

[graceful swan]

Archimedean

[steel creek]

wait so how did margulis end up with balas

[graceful swan]

They weren’t married

Since they didn’t get married she was never ranked up

[woven coyote]

You need to differentiate between orokin empire and orokin caste

Were all the people you listed part of the empire? Yes. Were they a part of the orokin caste? No

[steel creek]

whys bro sounding agressive ;-;

[graceful swan]

I wouldn’t call that aggressive

[woven trench]

Is teshin dead?

[digital grail]

No

Just in duviri

[woven coyote]

And unlike what people thought when new war launched he wasnt killed and then revived in duviri

[digital grail]

He's just chilling in his cave 😌

[woven trench]

He jsut got isekai'ed?

[woven coyote]

Yeah there was a giant portal right behind the whole scene after all

[graceful swan]

Ye just was just very close to dying

[woven trench]

Wait so does duviri came before or after the new war?

[digital grail]

Both

[graceful swan]

During

[woven trench]

So duviri is just a diffrent perspective of what happen after balas toss us into the void?

[graceful swan]

Duviri is about another version of you

[digital grail]

Well it's not our perspective well it is but no but yes

[graceful swan]

It explains how Drifter got into Origin System

[woven coyote]

Like duviri was created before
The events of duviri paradox are during

[woven trench]

And he helped us to return to origin system?

[woven coyote]

Yeah

Duviri paradox markedly starts with the backstab and lotus' hand crashing in front of drifter

[graceful swan]

Drifter got stabbed the same time Operator did

[stray herald]

remind me how the drifter came to be

like how did they split from the operator

[digital grail]

I was gonna type something but nemesis has better answers

[graceful swan]

The stab caused the hand to fall which led to Drifters escaping and meeting Operator

[stray herald]

not that

like how did the person drifter came to be

[graceful swan]

How did Drifter become Drifter?

[silk atlas]

The exact same as Operator, up until the handshake where Wally did a little bit of trolling

[graceful swan]

Drifter and Operator are the same person

[stray herald]

so eternalism, but something went different on drifter side?

[silk atlas]

The "something went different" is Eternalism, but yeah.

[stray herald]

ok

[graceful swan]

The something that went different was a hand falling from the sky

[stray herald]

isnt that just what help drifter leave duviri and not what the difference between how the operator left the zariman, since operator was the one who got saved and drifter didnt?

[graceful swan]

Drifter not getting saved from their deal led to Duviri

[stray herald]

yea

[graceful swan]

Then a hand falling into Duviri 1000+ years later

[old dome]

...do we know anything abt the defixios, or just what lotus says during the abyssal zone mission??

[stray herald]

i think you are confused bc i was asking on the crux of the difference between how the drifter and operator's realities turned out

but i got my answer

[graceful swan]

Pretty much no lore at all

[stray herald]

fun, no lore

[old dome]

weird,, bc it sounds like its p important stuff

[brazen nymph]

is stalker a warframe not stripped of it's conciousness ? also is the mf a mercenary or what he tracking me down even after killing an infested boss

[lean garden]

Warframe yes, stripped no

He's your no.1 hater

[brazen nymph]

so he's a fully metal human?

[stray herald]

it was punishment by ballas

[pallid spoke]

Stalker is like Umbra basically.

[stray herald]

yuh

[brazen nymph]

who is that

[pallid spoke]

Minus the special Transference bolt.

[lean garden]

they're new they're not at The Sacrifice

[stray herald]

spoilers?????

[pallid spoke]

Oh, you aren't to that point in the story...

[pallid spoke]

I mean, this is a spoiler channel so, people will assume you've done all the story content when you come here.

[stray herald]

myeah

[pallid spoke]

My fault for not scrolling up though...

[stray herald]

i still wished we have more variations of a frame

umbra was cool that he has his unique augment

[brazen nymph]

I wish for example that my potato from rhino went automatically to rhino prime. It's almost the same thing just more shields, and "prime" in the name

[stray herald]

bruh

[graceful swan]

Wouldn’t Hunhow be our number one hater

[lean garden]

Hunhow is our kendrick, and stalker is drake

[stray herald]

why does stalker hate us anyway. the orokins were killed by the void children-piloted frames

he was forcibly turned into a wf by ballas

[silk atlas]

Yeah.
The Orokin.
The people he was working for and with.

[graceful swan]

We took away his job

[stray herald]

yea, he got punished for being a couple with jade

[silk atlas]

He served his punishment being turned into a frame.

[stray herald]

is this a case of stalk-holm syndrome?

[silk atlas]

No...

You can be arrested and serve time and then go back to doing the stuff you were before you were arrested

It's not some eternal damnation

[stray herald]

so he doesnt hate the orokin after he was turned into a wf

totally not stockholm

[silk atlas]

He knew what he was getting into getting Jade pregnant

And keeping the baby

[stray herald]

still hanging onto that stalk-holm syndrome train

[heady quest]

You gotta understand that in those times, honor and loyalty were a big thing. Yes he was turned into a warframe but was indoctrinated to be loyal to the orokin.

[stray herald]

oic

[lean garden]

I mean theres also the fact that its very understandable from his perspective that we just destroyed any way of getting his family back

[silk atlas]

And, again, the punishment was he and Jade were turned into frames. That's it. Just don't step out of line again. The punishment was "fair" and Stalker gets to keep serving.

[heady quest]

Also he was already a servant (or dax I don’t remember) before he turned into a frame

[silk atlas]

"low guard"

[graceful swan]

He even got to have the fact he was a low guardian carved into his face

[strange plinth]

Stalker also had the promise of seeing Jade again held over his head, no?
i swear one of the memory feathers says something like that
tho ballas could've been lying about that entire prospect anyway

[silk atlas]

Would still be a way to keep him in line, regardless of if it was true.

[north jolt]

Ballas lying in order to manipulate someone ? hard to believe

[silk atlas]

Impossible, even

[strange turtle]

He would never

He is such an honest, responsible and righteous gentleman

[old dome]

nah... stalker would. well. stalk drake to hell.

[graceful swan]

Orokin are truly the kindest humans alive some would say they are even god like

[old dome]

orokin hate is just sentient propaganda at work

[graceful swan]

So true

Orokin hating isn’t normal

[stiff fable]

Mind you, he'd already forgotten about Jade/being Sorren by that point. It's not until Jade Shadows that any part of that comes back to him.

[lean garden]

Im not sure if I can agree. he doesnt need the full picture to feel that we robbed him of something he wants dearly

[stiff fable]

I'm basing this on the memory entries from Jade where she mentions visiting him without any response on his part

And Ballas laughing at her for believing that he'd kept his mind

[lean garden]

Not something that happens

[lean garden]

thats because Stalker wouldnt know that the Warframe he sees is her

[lean garden]

Your father blamed himself. As if love could ever be a crime! As if I had no say in the matter!

So now he repents. In his changed skin, he serves them, "like a devoted dog." Ballas gloats to me of how they dangle the promise of me – of us – over his head.

"He lives in hope of seeing you again, one day. I have promised him this. You should be proud."

He wants me to hate. I shall not. I own myself.
This is the complete opposite of forgetting jade

[stiff fable]

He's lying, look further down

[lean garden]

Look further down where?

Because the next time stalker is mentioned its when jade picks him up during the collapse

So like, how would stalker figure out jade is a warframe

[stiff fable]

Because they were both punished for the same crime?

[lean garden]

There are two assumptions youre making:

1. that it is a standardised punishment for the crime
2. That Stalker would somehow assume that another warframe is his wife instead of any other warframe

Stalker was promised his family, at no point was he told that he'd get a warframe instead

[stiff fable]

I mean, the description of the scene isn't "mentally well person fails to recognize changed former lover" it's "abused person given Alzheimer's doesn't know anything anymore"

Like, the entire tenor of that fragment is Jade realizing they were lied to

[lean garden]

Except its not?

Jade isnt being lied to

And the nature of ballas's bargain is that Jade is a warframe too

Stalker not recognising yet another warframe as jade, in the event where several other warframes are present isnt a lie

Nor does it indicate that stalker has forgotten jade

[stiff fable]

Jade's name is Jade

[lean garden]

Is jade the warframe wearing a nametag?

[stiff fable]

Actually yes

[lean garden]

Is there some iff for stalker to read jades name

[stiff fable]

Actually yes

It was mentioned offhandedly years ago that a lot of elements that pop up in conversations elements are in-universe elements

The big example being the Lotus talking to NPCs is a holographic pop-up

So the names you see over people's heads are actually on a HUD

[lean garden]

Still harkening back to the first assumption youve made

[restive river]

I actually thought of this last night
Did Ballas keep her name as Jade cause Jadelight or do we call her Jade cause we know her actual name

[lean garden]

That they were standardised to the same punishment

[lean garden]

Something that remains an unqualified assumption

[lean garden]

And unless you can get a source for this, and that it links to the hud element being an IFF tag for stalker to read jade. I am hesitant to think this as any kind of strong evidence

[stiff fable]

No of course it wasn't the standard punishment, it's Ballas

But you'd have to at least SUSPECT

[lean garden]

But thats flimsy

[stiff fable]

But that's not my argument at all

[lean garden]

Especially since one of the two is being lied to that he'd get his family back, meaning that he's being lead the other way

[stiff fable]

My argument is that Stalker lost all his memories as per normal Warframe memory rot

Because they're definitely all gone by JS

We see those memories start to come back during the quest

[lean garden]

Sorren calls her jade in a flashback

Then the question transforms into "did ballas actually call the warframe jade, or are we calling her that because we know her real name"

[stiff fable]

I imagine her name being Jade is what gave him the idea to stick the jade light into her

[restive river]

Yeee

[stiff fable]

We don't have any evidence of another name for the frame

[lean garden]

The issue here is that we know from dante and kullervo, that memories for those kinds of frames dont go out altogether

[stiff fable]

Neither one seems to have memories from before being Warframe'd though

[lean garden]

Stalker has a very viable reason for not recognising his wife: she's quite literally not the same creature he's expecting

[stiff fable]

In fact Kullervo in particular seems to have been reset according to the children's songs

He has to find out what he is from the Archemedian

[lean garden]

Depends on how you imagine that Archimedean to be his mother

[stiff fable]

Yup that's why

She's both his biological mother and the person who he was assigned to as a Warframe

He didn't have the memories to recognize her until they were triggered in him

[lean garden]

Actually wait

Cite your source, the song doesnt seem to match what youre saying

[stiff fable]

There's a lyric about him finding out what he is from her

[lean garden]

His mother is an Archimedean, why would she be toiling in the dirt

But also an earlier lyric shows him tracking his past all the way back

So like, evidently total memory loss is not it

[stiff fable]

Ah yes you're correct

He tracked his family down and found that they'd all long since been killed in the war

Or, wait, seems like it was Orokin fighting Orokin

[low girder]

I'm repalying the new war and I got a question. Operator shakes hands with wally, but that somehow links him to drifter?

[graceful swan]

Operator and Drifter are the same person with different circumstances

It was explained in the Eternalism lesson kinda

[low girder]

I understood that, so what im gathering is, This operator took the deal which changed the outcome of the future, which allowed drifter to always had have void energy?

[graceful swan]

Both Operator and Drifter took the deal

[strange plinth]

and operator didn't take two
the handshake (well, the whole zariman sequence) is a flashback to the initial deal where they split

[graceful swan]

Drifters saved them
Operators saved everyone

[feral cape]

They both saved all of them

[graceful swan]

Yeah

Drifter just didn’t get saved

[low girder]

If they both took the deal, how come drifter didnt have void energy?

or is that a related thing to the deal

[graceful swan]

Because he saved them

[woven coyote]

Probably easier to just paste the tablet

[graceful swan]

29. You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you?

A. CORRUPT FILE DETECTED

B. I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you. (correct)

[feral cape]

Wally like most trickster deitys made a very vague and open ended deal thus he controls all of the outcomes

Saving all of them could mean a dozen different things

Just teleporting the kids to earth is an option

Giving them parahuman abilities is an option
Removing the adults from the zariman is an option

[graceful swan]

Wally probably sent the kids back if Ember Primes codex is to be believed

[low girder]

"Ember Primes codex" ?

[feral cape]

The codex entry for the warframe ember prime

[low girder]

Didnt know wf had codex entries

I thought they added that through leverian

[feral cape]

4 of them have them

Rhino mag excalibur and ember

[low girder]

damn no loki

[strange plinth]

drifter's deal was an exclusive "them" while operator's was inclusive
the deal gave "them" void powers and presumably allowed the zariman to return to regular space and get saved, but the void powers let them defend themselves from the parents driven mad
drifter was stuck alone in the zariman after the deal, so they never got the void powers until after tnw

[woven coyote]

Leverian was the more recent attempt

The old entries in certain primes were abandoned loooooong ago

[graceful swan]

Even Leverian is struggling

[feral cape]

De should hire the gray archon

[low girder]

In the beggining of the New War, we see operator and Lotus get murdered by Ballas, but the New war never explains how operator survived and Lotus, no?

[feral cape]

Yes that's not what we're talking about tho

[restive river]

Its not a flashback
It’s the Operator trapped in their own history

[feral cape]

Oh i misread

[low girder]

ye, just a side question

[feral cape]

The operator survived because we posses a layer of immortality based on metaphysics

[woven coyote]

Ballas literally says it
Cant kill the devil but you can send it back to hell

[feral cape]

Lotus survived because drifter

[strange plinth]

operator wasn't killed
"you can't kill the devil, tenno, but you can send it back to hell"
Lotus's hand ends up in duviri and Drifter takes it to the origin system with them, where the lotus is regrown through archon shards

[restive river]

She was regrowing before that but yes the shards heal her

[low girder]

The hell ballas talks about is the void yes?

[strange plinth]

yeah you're right
used flashback for simplicity, but operator is literally experiencing it again

[restive river]

While in Duviri the Drifter is helped by the Operator
The Drifter escapes Duviri and does what they do which ig helps save the Operator so they can help save the Drifter

[graceful swan]

The Tenno's personal timeline has been disrupted. Knowing he cannot kill the Tenno, Ballas has opted to imprison them within their own history. The Tenno will be unable to escape this loop without the paradoxical intervention of an outside force.

Continuing to monitor.

[woven coyote]

Tadah the paradox

[restive river]

Yup!

[low girder]

Also because of conceptual embodiment or whatever its called, Operator manifested wally right?

[restive river]

What

[woven coyote]

Not even close

[restive river]

Wally existed before the Zariman incident

Long before lol

[low girder]

So he takes the form of Operator then in that quest

[restive river]

As far back as at least Albrecht’s visit

[low girder]

and every quest

[restive river]

He takes the form of many many people

[graceful swan]

That’s one way to call Albrecht old

[restive river]

The Operator
Albrecht
Loid
Russalka
Yonta

[strange plinth]

the shards were required to bring her back, no?
i thought it was heavily implied she wouldn't be able to reform much beyond the hand w/o the shards
ik her eidolon body starts forming when the hand is put in the chair

[restive river]

She was already reforming somewhat but without the shards she wouldn’t have made like
Any progress

It’s feint but you can see her somewhat before the shards

[low girder]

Wait so are we in a paradox currently within the Warframe Lore?

I know Hollvania is, but beside that

[restive river]

The Duviri Paradox and the New War was the only Paradox

[low girder]

So were passed it now

[restive river]

Hollvania isn’t a paradox

[low girder]

My b its a loop

[strange plinth]

only in drifter's being there, which is partially resolved by sending them to 1999

[restive river]

Ye
A timeloop of the actual past

[restive river]

Except they can come back whenever

The Paradox comes more from the fact both Operator and Drifter helped the other but needed to be saved by the other to help the other

Which is what happens

[low girder]

Also through the Void, Drifter is able to manipulate time and go back to when he pleases? I ask this because of the true ending of Hollvania

[graceful swan]

Drifter actually enjoys going to Duviri now

[low girder]

He can hop through and out?

[woven coyote]

He states as much in the 1999 chats

[low girder]

ic

[graceful swan]

Yes you literally escape at the end of the quest

[low girder]

well it didnt show durviri

only the hypnosis black white

[strange plinth]

one of the options yeah
tho i think the other one is 'duviri's gone lmao'

[graceful swan]

The whole point of Duviri was gaining emotions and finding a way to leave

[woven coyote]

Probably isnt

[strange plinth]

which has only been used when refering to exactly one other thing

[restive river]

and memories

[woven coyote]

That wouldnt make sense

[restive river]

It seems Drifter remembers everything post Duviri

Even how many times it took to ride a kaithe

[restive river]

Duviri isn’t gone

[low girder]

Also I got another question, Ballas made the warframes, but for who to control them? Because the tenno did not have there void powers at the time no?

[graceful swan]

Nobody

Warframes weren’t meant to be controlled

[strange plinth]

originally, themselves. warframes were under their own control until the rebellion/madness

[restive river]

Gen 1 frames controlled themselves

[woven coyote]

Tenno did have powers
They were just contained somewhere

And later the warframe operator interaction was discovered

[restive river]

But oops infestation makes people feral

[graceful swan]

Oops Orokin still making mistakes

[woven coyote]

Their only constant

[restive river]

They never stopped making mistakes

Truly they too were human

[graceful swan]

They were the mistake

[strange plinth]

agreed yeah
just mentioning that either that chat or a different one have it as an option
fate of duviri possibly player-determined or whatever
doesn't make sense for it to disappear though. even if the CE can't stay without someone thinking about it (for whatever reason?), teshin's there to keep at least the cave there

[low girder]

So what were the point of warframes and how did they get void powers and each unique warframe having their own unique abilities? Im guessing DE doesnt explain much of that. From my understanding, Warframes were just Ballas expirement with "what if I mixed infestation with a person"

[graceful swan]

The Warframes were made before the Tenno returned to fight the Sentients

It didn’t work very well

[stiff fable]

The Warframes are super weapon platforms

[strange plinth]

there were experiments, yeah, but most if not all of the warframes were designed to have their specific specialties
warframes were built to fight the sentients during the old war when the Dax and Necramechs proved ineffective
they were shelved due to madness until some guy in rhino prime's codex figured out that the tenno could 'calm the beast'

[stiff fable]

Meant to combine the regeneration of the infested, the tech of the Orokin, and the expertise of the Dax

[low girder]

What is the lore of the sentients, they dont come from the origin system, correct? and they cant touch the void

[lean garden]

They come from Origin

[graceful swan]

Were built by the Orokin to go to Tau

Warframe doesn’t have aliens and that was an early rule

[strange plinth]

they do come from the origin system
they're self-replicating terraforming robots sent to Tau to terraform it for the orokin
but they realized that the orokin would ruin Tau as they had done to Earth and waged war on the orokin (although dubious who actually threw the first stone lol)
the void weakness was built-in to allow the orokin to dispose of them as needed iirc, as they were terrified of intelligent ai

[low girder]

wait so the sentients are constructed thing

Orokin 🤡

[strange plinth]

you've reduced the lore of warframe to a word and an emoji, congratulations

[woven coyote]

It is a time honored tradition
Reduce warframe lore into jokes and puns

Which are often more accurate than loretubers

[restive river]

Where did you get that idea from conceptual embodiment???

Conceptually embodied things don’t cease to exist just cause someone stops thinking about them

[low girder]

wait, this would mean, Ballas created Hunhow

A god?

[woven coyote]

Hunhow isnt a god

[restive river]

There are no gods in Warframe

[woven coyote]

And it wasnt ballas who created the sentients
He only worked to get the project aproved

[strange plinth]

covering a weird case explanation i wouldn't have been aware of if it was true or alluded to
i don't think it needs to be maintained or anything, no

[low girder]

unum?

[restive river]

Not a god.

[restive river]

At most we have the holdfasts who need to feed off of something
Other conceptual embodiments just
Exist once created, no need to be maintained or observed

[low girder]

So since The Lotus is a sentient, Ballas created her?

[strange plinth]

yeah
maybe the holdfasts was where i went for that?
not sure my thought process there, even then
apologies for confusion

[strange plinth]

in an incredibly roundabout way, sorta

[graceful swan]

Yes he even changed her multiple times

[restive river]

Ballas didn’t make the sentients :/

He approved the project but he didn’t make them

He did however heavily manipulate the Lotus

[graceful swan]

Lotus is the only Sentient he messed with

[woven coyote]

^^

[low girder]

So Ballas "brainwashing" The lotus in thinking she was Margulius was not brainwashing was it? It was coding her to be margulius, if you understand what I mean. Since sentients are orokin creations, Orokins can make them however and whatever they want?

[low girder]

ye

[woven coyote]

Hoenstly
Equivalent terms in sci fi
Sci fi media has used reprogramming as a term for brainwashing humans after all

[restive river]

She’s a mimic, she was programmed to be like Margulis so she could easily infiltrate the tenno and destroy them
But
She came to love us instead

[low girder]

Ye

[proper barn]

Not a God she does have the Quills as her like system wide agents though. Also I didn't know until someone told me they are called Quills cuz they are "writing" or "re-writing" history.

[low girder]

What happened to the other Orokin? why is Ballas the last one?

[proper barn]

The brainwashing was more her like having to listen to Ballas.

[restive river]

Def rewriting

Palimpsest of spacetime and all that :]

[restive river]

We killed them

[proper barn]

Night of the Naga Drums.

The thing Stalker is mad about.

[restive river]

We don’t know how Ballas survived
The Entrati survived cause they were infested and in the void

[proper barn]

No we do Only Kullervo tried to kill him.

So he probably wasn't at the like celebration with everyone else.

[strange plinth]

n albrecht was in 1999

[restive river]

Didn’t he do that like
Way before the night of the naga drums?

[restive river]

Ye
He left sometime during the old war

[proper barn]

Also we didn't kill all of the Orokin just most of them.

[restive river]

We were so close to genociding them

[proper barn]

No? After.

[restive river]

But alas
Ballas lives

[proper barn]

Cuz Ballas talks about how Kullervo was attacking other targets during the Naga drums to make it easier for the tenno to succeed seemingly.

[restive river]

I thought it was before cause
He casted him into the void and Kullervo witnessed when the Tenno arrived iirc

[restive river]

Ah ok
Ig he just had time to dump him in the void

[proper barn]

It's both.

@low girder stalkers codex entry talks about the night of Naga drums

If you want to read it.

[restive river]

Its been too long since I read Kullervo’s crimes
Ty :]

[low girder]

bet thx

[restive river]

I still want a cutscene or something of the night of the naga drums

[proper barn]

Me too

[strange plinth]

all we have is that little bit of jade shadows, sadly
where jade is saving a basic excal from stalker

[north jolt]

Lettie is rapidly approaching your location

[proper barn]

Or the other way around.

[low girder]

Lorewise, shouldnt exabs 4 and 1 do void dmg?

[restive river]

[restive river]

She’s def saving Stalker from the Tenno lmao

[strange plinth]

i may be misremembering lol

[restive river]

All warframes are void-powered
So lorewise all abilities should do void damage by that logic

Xata’s Whisper doing void damage is wonderful
It’s an ability that displays the truth of the warframes and their abilities, covering them in the infestation and allowing them to do void damage directly
Love it

[north jolt]

I've thought about this before but personally I think when they say frames are "void powered" they mean it in a similar way to something being like battery or solar powered, but like any device using those energy sources what they are actually designed to do varies greatly

Metaphorically speaking

[restive river]

I mean yeah

All warframes are void tech
All void tech is powered by the heart of deimos

[north jolt]

Wait does that include voidrig or is that just a name?

[restive river]

All abilities utilizing the void makes sense for some but the Orokin also just had really powerful tech

[restive river]

Just a name, voidrig didn’t go down when the heart did

[low girder]

Who would be the strongest frame lorewise?

[north jolt]

Thats what I thought but had to ask

[restive river]

Which transference isn’t void tech either then

[restive river]

Define strongest

[low girder]

Nova? since she does fusion?

[north jolt]

Also going back to my metaphor, Xaku is basically a junkyard battery powered taser

[low girder]

blow up a planet the easiest

[woven coyote]

Like the discussion we had the other day
Which seems more feasible for embers 4?
Pulling out meteors from the sky (sometimes through the ships hull) or conceptually embodying them?

[low girder]

like wipe out everything and anything

[restive river]

Off the top of my head
Nova
Give her enough time and she’d wipe out a planet with antimatter

[strange plinth]

atlas punched an asteroid or something
chroma's described by lotus to be one of the most powerful warframes
nova has antimatter
limbo mathed himself to death

[restive river]

Only issue I can see admittedly is the fact that if the Orokin were utilizing conceptual embodiment why limit that to just the frames
Unless they didn’t know

[north jolt]

Nova can control antimatter, Limbo controls an entire dimension, Saryn is a walking plague (wont blow up a planet but can probably wipe out all life on it), Atlas can punch boulders meteors

[restive river]

There’s also the separation of gameplay and lore

[north jolt]

Protea has straight up time manipulation

[woven coyote]

Probably bcs of their utter lack of understanding of emotions

[north jolt]

Leak strictly going by lore, even the "weakest" frames could realistically wipe out entire normal human armies. The strongest frames, while debatable, can pretty much wipe out entire planets in one way or another

[woven coyote]

I doubt there was any orokin around that could control their own emotions enough to weaponize them

[restive river]

Yeah :]

[restive river]

Yareli:

[woven coyote]

Poor yarelli
Two lore entries and two losses

[restive river]

I stand by Yareli being physically the weakest tbh
She’s still strong ofc but poor girl got thrown around by a redditor 😭

They did not need to do her dirty like that

[north jolt]

Realistically Yareli could still beat me

[restive river]

Oh for sure

Same here
She’s a warframe lmao

I doubt anyone here could even take a basic grineer grunt lol

[low girder]

wym thrown by a redditor

[restive river]

Have you seen her comic???

[woven coyote]

Yeah those cleavers are scary

[low girder]

nah

[restive river]

The muscles alone on one of em yeeesh

[restive river]

https://youtu.be/gRyiZi3VV7A?si=hL0v55y6U2yPi1Sq

[woven coyote]

Beaten by a fat guy who then proceeded to be beat by the power of friendship and far too many grav chutes on overdrive

[low girder]

Ok, this is silly by DE

Yareli almost couldn't best fodder-man 😭

On the topic of strong things in wf lorewise, when DE released the new wf intro cinematic where exab one shotted an grineer fleet with a damn mk1 Paris was Hella funny to me

Makes you think how strong things like incarnons are

[woven coyote]

We still need a mod that makes that special arrow

DE you added mags ability from the trailer to the game we need that special paris arrow!!!

[normal mountain]

Isn't that just Thunderbolt?

[woven coyote]

Nah like the arrow visibly changed and suddenly it could pierce the ships hull

[normal mountain]

Hmmm

[woven coyote]

Plus thunderbolt has been absolute weak garbage for many years

[normal mountain]

Fair
Needs a guaranteed explosion chance

Hehehe
Turn every bow into Bramma

[normal mountain]

I'm fairly convinced she could have just shot her Sea Snares into tubby's mouth from the start and just straight drowned him
But I think she was more concerned with letting the slaves get away

And it nearly cost her life tbh

[woven coyote]

Honestly scalable damage would be more than enough imo

[normal mountain]

Also, I didn't notice this before, but it looked like Yareli was unarmed
I bet things would have been very different if she had Kompressa

[woven coyote]

Just like that mod for beam weapons that also deals a small explosion with unscalable damage

[normal mountain]

Yeah, that one should scale at the very least
Funny, but nearly useless

[north jolt]

I could take on a Skorpion, in a machete fight

[restive river]

That’s what you think

Wait til she knocks you down
You’re done

[north jolt]

Nah, Id win

[restive river]

Nah

[stiff fable]

(Meme from elsewhere,) DON'T FORGET ME

[paper tartan]

What's the wildest frame ability from a lore perspective? Wisp can open a hole to the sun, limbo can shift realities.

[mint laurel]

I did a size comparison with objects, and i think the Orbiter could be 50 meters long and 15 meters wide

damn, used an image of the Orbiter where i put the landing craft on a circle saying that its size is 10 meters, and asked DeepSeek. The bot also agree that the Orbiter could be 50 meters long

[stiff fable]

don't ask chatbots for lore info

They are wrong

because their data pool is "other bots that are wrong"

[restive river]

Did you use this?

The orbiter is massive compared to the landing craft

[mint laurel]

Yes

[mint laurel]

Yeah, i notice

I redid it

Probably the Orbiter is 100-150 meters long

[lilac aspen]

Probably designed perfectly for orbiting.

[feral cape]

From an angle where you can like conceptualize it rhino

His foot would be moving at relativistic speeds (>=0.01c) which is absolutely ridiculous

Depending on where you do the math for this ability it goes from planet wide quakes to cracking plants in half

[paper tartan]

But that would mean the atmosphere would burn and atomic explosions would happen. 🤣 Oh sci fantasy

[old dome]

nidus' whole thing...

[tall echo]

Not even remotely close

[feral cape]

He manipulates infested i don't see anything absurd about it

[old dome]

the fact that he can just. infect ppl w poisonous fungi & cordyceps is wild to me

[lean garden]

Wuh?

He infects them with infestation, where did you get mushrooms from

[feral cape]

Nidus manipulates helminth

[old dome]

& infestation isnt just space/scifi poisonous, parasitic fungi??

[blissful merlin]

From the last of us it seems like lmao

[feral cape]

Its nanomachines son

[old dome]

its actually real irl

[feral cape]

Its based on something real

[old dome]

.....is it?? tbh ive thought of infestation as parasitic fungi this whole time. evidently.

[feral cape]

Not in real life the human body is far too hot for the fungi to survive

[old dome]

bc like. (points at deimos) thats kinda what parasitized insects look like cordyceps is within their bodies...

like so.

...youre telling me the infestation isnt parasites?? /gen

[blissful merlin]

Yea but not in the sense you’re talking about. Idk where you got that nidus can just infect people with the same diseases from our earth and the last of us earth lmao. It’s not the same thing. The infestation is very different.. It’s nothing like the Cordecept virus that you’re thinking of. That’s a whole completely different process.

[feral cape]

Also the infestation works on technology and also breaks down matter organic and inorganic

[blissful merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/look-what-yep-this-gif-13617583

[old dome]

...i feel like ive been lied to.

by myself but.

nanomachines...?

well. thats another thing to correct myself on so thanks

[feral cape]

Take that with a grain of salt i can't actually find the thing that suggests it's nano machines

[old dome]

didnt ballas say its organic in the sacrifice??

[tall echo]

Techno-organic

[lean garden]

You might be able to find something if you search up technocyte specifically

[feral cape]

I might but that requires me to stop playing balatro

[narrow orbit]

i wonder

does stalker have a transference bolt like all the other warframes?

[lean garden]

Undetermined

[glacial bough]

He should in theory, but we cannot confirm

[junior nacelle]

Do you think that there'll ever be a quest where we may need to get a new Orbiter? Because different Landing Crafts are nice and all but I think I want to see the Orbiter change from the outside as well

[tall echo]

It's not like you ever see more than a fraction of the orbiter

[junior nacelle]

From the outside, one can only see the Landing Craft, and from the inside, one can only see the upper deck area with the Foundry, Mod Console, Arcane Console and Arsenal, as well as the lower deck, with the Backroom, Helminth and Personal Quarters. But it's implied that the Orbiter is much larger than it seems from the inside

We can see part of it in Drifter's camp and approximate what it could look like, but it's also unclear how different Landing Crafts fit

[tall echo]

That's all inside, you said you want the outside to change

[junior nacelle]

Yeah I did say that

In part because I want to see what the whole of the Orbiter looks like

[tall echo]

Here you go

[charred patio]

do we know exactly what wisp breach surge does, or where its from
or is it also just space magic?

[restive river]

At least one version of him does
The one that the Drifter uses
Though that one doesn’t seem to originate from the origin system the Operator knows

[narrow orbit]

well either that isnt canon or that one could just be a 3d printed one like all the other warframes we use

thats my speculation anyway

but im talking about our stalker

origin system

[heady quest]

I mean he should have one cause he was made into a warframe when other warframes were made and had operators. Or it could be that because he was a low guard he wasn’t honored enough to have an operator and not have a bolt. However we see jade getting one so i don’t know how ballad decides if one gets one and the other not.

[restive river]

He was a low guardian before being turned into a frame
And it seems he didn’t even need a tenno as he had no knowledge of them

[heady quest]

Honestly jade being like a mother to their operator makes me think how other first generation warframes were like to their operator

[restive river]

Stalker was loyal and never went feral

[restive river]

First gen frames didn’t have operators

[tall echo]

Nonexistant?

[restive river]

The Orokin destroyed and shelved the Warframe project after the first gen went mostly feral

They only brought it back once the Tenno could help the frames

[heady quest]

Yea yea I know that but I mean the ones after that when they get an operator

[tall echo]

(Supposedly feral)

[restive river]

Wdym supposedly

[heady quest]

Oh they went feral XD

[restive river]

The whole thing is the infestation takes hold of their minds eventually, yes it didn’t happen to all of them but it did happen

[heady quest]

The rhino story shows him being feral

[restive river]

How do you explain the feral Rhino if it’s just a coverup :p

[tall echo]

It's explained by ballas, he wouldn't exactly be honest about that to the enemy

[narrow orbit]

uh yeah i was gonna say the original warframes are just alive

they didnt haven anyone doing tranference on them originally

[tall echo]

Imagine telling your enemy "btw our main weapon against you hates us too"

[narrow orbit]

some of them are even still around

[restive river]

Except he’s honest about everything else in that, no?

[restive river]

I mean so are the gen 2 and ones we make in the foundry

[narrow orbit]

not feral

[heady quest]

Yea yea I know but when they got their operator, like I just imagine Ash being like alright so you are now a top assassin so let’s kill a few people 😂

[narrow orbit]

they were still human just very much insane

[restive river]

No, they were feral.

[tall echo]

That one was tortured, it wanted revenge

[restive river]

The infestation made them feral.

[restive river]

didn’t it try to eat someone

[narrow orbit]

so then how were they able to make decisions

[restive river]

????

[narrow orbit]

bro

what do u mean ????

[restive river]

They didn’t go feral immediately :/

[narrow orbit]

ah

[tall echo]

Why would later frames not go feral without operators?

[restive river]

Cause I don’t know what you mean.

They went feral with time due to being infested

[narrow orbit]

i mean a lot of them just died before that even started happening

[heady quest]

They more sort of went insane and mad. They could still think but raged out too much cause of the infestation?

[narrow orbit]

and again some of the og warframes are still around

[restive river]

From what has been observed the frames that lack operators that haven’t gone feral do so in a similar way to Umbra, extreme emotions.

[restive river]

No
They aren’t
The Orokin destroyed them

[narrow orbit]

not all of them

[restive river]

There are copies sure but bo ogs.

[heady quest]

Because we the operator ease their minds? Shown in sacrifice

[tall echo]

I just don't think ballas can be trusted to tell the truth about the "feral" 1st gen

[heady quest]

Oh you talking about non operator frames mb

[tall echo]

Did you read the message properly

[restive river]

literally all of them
Aside from ones they kept for testing to try and find a workaround ig

Like the feral rhino

[heady quest]

Yea no sry just realised

[narrow orbit]

not all of them bruh

[tall echo]

Kullervo

[narrow orbit]

youre striaght up wrong, some of them are literally still around during the events of the game

[restive river]

Does he not tell the truth for everything else in the Vitruvian?
I know he lies but we can’t just assume one aspect is a lie

[narrow orbit]

kullervo, harrow (up until quest), sevagoth (until quest), yareli, lavos

rhino supposedly

[restive river]

Sent to the void
Though
That was later

[tall echo]

Harrow had an operator

[narrow orbit]

much much later

[heady quest]

I mean Kullervo is kinda a void abomination. Send on the zariman and then integrated into duviri, warped and twisted

[narrow orbit]

true actually myb

[tall echo]

No??

[restive river]

Harrow had an Operator
Sevagoth is an unknown
Wdym Yareli and Lavos???

[heady quest]

Same a revenant, which you can say he is the original but has been void touched