lore-discussion

[sweet wadi]

Presumably it’s more a cultural thing now, and they aren’t still ripping out hearts every month.

… I hope.

[drifting mirage]

There is that one ephemera in a few weeks /j

[devout verge]

For one, Arthur and Eleanor identify as "Britanniacs", which is clearly not quite but almost the British empire. "Prince and Principality" instead of "Crown and country" and such. Then there's Amir from, I think, "Libertaria, f- yeah!", or something along those lines., Which is a country on another continent on the other side of the ocean to the west.

So, for a good while, I assumed 1999 was just based on our world, but changed in some minor ways through some "cosmic butterfly" events in the past. Serial numbers filed off, just enough to be recognizable but not quite stepping on anyone's shoes.

Then Arthur mentioned the Rubedo mines. Rubedo is a mineral that does not exist. Which means that the basic atomic structure of the world has to be different, and any similarities are purely coincidental. There is no actual shared root, the world's been different since the big bang. It just kinda resembles ours.

That being said, sun and moon have been worshipped in various ways all over the world. The three divine siblings of Japan are Amaterasu (sun), Tsukuyomi (moon), and Susanoo (storms).

So, sun/moon bitheistic coming up really isn't that surprising, even though it was probably mostly done as to not invoke actual Christianity.

[sleek karma]

Are Warframe weapon buffs just the WF mutating the weapon with some fork of technocyte, for example harrow can buff the fire rate of a gun but you can't just make a riffle shoot more without breaking it so is he spreading some type of technocyte that physically changes the gun?

[tall echo]

Void magic

[sweet wadi]

The bullets become sharper

Given that they can also create matter from seemingly nothing, teleport, warp time, and travel to sepperate dimensions, nudging the mass and velocity of a lump of metal or plasma seems pretty doable.

I mean, Rhino literally stomps the ground so hard he breaks time.

[left oyster]

How tf has the corpus not causes solar system level inflation for the 1000+ years theyve been in operation

[normal mountain]

What makes you think they haven't?
Genuinely curious, a lot can happen over an undetermined amount of time

[graceful swan]

There's nothing much to inflate if they aren't selling their wares to you

[left oyster]

Tbh they probably have😭😭 who even makes credit bc theres no space government?? I can tbe corpus bc knowing them theyd pump out so much that itll devalue credits by alottt

And mfs invest in index meaing that there’s space billionaires out there meaning someone has to regulate the amount of credits being made

[ashen valve]

About 1999.
I don't think that we actually witnessed the Drifter's first attempt to help the residents of Hollvania. I think that what we saw at the beginning of the quest, where the nuke went off and was reversed by the Drifter's power, was actually separate from the second time we see the Drifter reverse the fate of Hollvania. In saying this, I want to indicate that it's possible we don't really know how many times the Drifter failed before we played.
This also makes sense because of the Drifter knowing exactly how to get to Arthur, and that they knew just what to say to get the Hex to at least give them a chance, among other small details... like the Drifter's seeming familiarity of the events giving way to a hint of irritation in thier dialogue (at the start).
Now, this could be written off as "Oh, Drifter's from the future and could have read about these events." Except for the fact that Drifter seems oblivious to everything about Hollvania except his objective. I don't think any records of that actually existed which could have been studied by Drifter: thus, they had to learn first-hand.

[lean garden]

I think that what we saw at the beginning of the quest, where the nuke went off and was reversed by the Drifter's power, was actually separate from the second time we see the Drifter reverse the fate of Hollvania. In saying this, I want to indicate that it's possible we don't really know how many times the Drifter failed before we played.
The loop was looping before drifter did any funky business

Separately, it would seem that external participants, such as drifter and albrecht are fulling capable of exiting the loop

[ashen valve]

And yet in the KIM messaging, once you have gained trust with them, it is indicated that Drifter sustains the loop. And, Albrecht also told the Drifter he had to keep the loop going.

[graceful swan]

Sustaining an existing loop

[lean garden]

which is a separate thing entirely from the fact that 1999 was looping before the Drifter arrived in the past

[ashen valve]

So, while the loop may have been existent beforehand, Drifter basically commandeered it

[lean garden]

in essence

[ashen valve]

However... that still does not disallow the idea of Drifter failing multiple times.

[lean garden]

given that albrecht escapes the moment Drifter is involved, I would take it as the first run of the gauntlet for drifter

[graceful swan]

Even if there was failing multiple times it would be in an Eternalism timeline we can't access so there's nothing suggesting another

[ashen valve]

each loop could also be a different branch of 1999's Eternalism structure. And, if the Drifter succeeds every single time... but what about the branches from before the Drifter succeeded? those are branches in which the Indifference wins, essentially...

ramblings, yes, i'm just typing as I think rn... Eternalism might not work that way

[graceful swan]

The failings happening bar the one we see in the quest were all before Drifter ever showed up so there's only one we can actually work with

[ashen valve]

Unless the loop was set at the point where the timelines branch. in which case, the loop was basically a cork in a wine glass, keeping everything in place until it popped. and maybe it popped when Drifter succeeded. but Drifter must maintain his success to make sure the cork is not put back in...

which would explain why the Drifter has to keep the loop going, in a sense

And because the cork popped, drifter has to succeed every time for the sake of every timeline that stems from the loop's end

the original loop's end

Which means maybe Drifter isn't actually looping the same timeline anymore. He's shifting to a new timeline

to fix the same problem. over and over

[tall echo]

It is implied that drifter has done at least one loop based on them being confused about albrecht not being in the interrogation room like he "should" have been

[normal mountain]

Also, it isn't a new timeline
We're literally rewriting the past

No, it doesn't make more sense, but it is what's happening

[tall echo]

"Events can be rewritten; traces of the original persist"

[normal mountain]

^Exactly

[ashen valve]

well... the Technocyte Coda... they don't appear in the Origin System until the Drifter does his thing in Hollvania... which means the Drifter is in the same timeline as the Operator, which means I was wrong about that. it is not new timelines. but that also means that the Operator's time would not have existed without the Drifter stopping the nuke, since the loop would have remained. but then the Orokin would never have existed, nor the Operator, nor Albrecht.

But the Indifference. The Void. it would have existed because it existed the entire time. Cause think about it. If every time the nuke blew, time reset... then time would never have moved on.

But how then can the Drifter maintain the loop? ...

Unless it's not a loop but a cleansing

or, better said: he's only looping himself and the Hex

So, they stay in the same time, but the rest of the timeline can move on

[graceful swan]

Letting the loop loop is enough

[distant echo]

Traveling to the past to rewrite events may be another interpretation of Eternalism that DE introduced in AotZ

[graceful swan]

“Eternalism. That now is merely a facet of a great block. It is relative... and we can change the frame. The tyranny of the Present Absolute is overthrown. Tomorrow is now it's equal.”

[graceful swan]

Btw CE was introduced in AotZ, not Eternalism

[distant echo]

I got the New War zarmian mixed up with the angels quest

[proper barn]

Aotz?

[distant echo]

Angels of the zariman

[proper barn]

Oh. Okay.

I know aotz is angels

[feral cape]

That one's actually physics

[devout verge]

The core problem is that actual, paradox-free time travel rules are boring. Not as in "it's boring without paradoxes", but as in "the moment the story allows for interesting problems, time travel rules become inconsistent and open for paradoxes".
Which is why every time travel series ends up with time travel rules just being made up and rewritten as they go along. "Timey-whimey stuff" and such.

The moment that Warframe invoked time travel, it was clear that there was no way the time travel rules would keep making sense.
I'm not looking forward to "At the same time, in the future", but I won't be surprised if it happens.

[chrome rivet]

Can somebody explain to ke how parazon hacking works?

[tall echo]

It just works

[earnest zealot]

I have a theory:

The Parazon is able to stab into a computer system and interact with it, right? Well, considering Warframes themselves || are part Infestation || , it could operate off of the "technological" component to compile and run programs. My best guess is it spreads an incredibly thin electrical field over the bladed part that allows for standard circuitry to operate even after being stabbed, and modifies or generates datic impulses to manipulate and interact with the code.

This micronic electric field could also explain how it's able to stab into or cut nearly any material.

[sweet wadi]

The void has rules, right? It’s not just pure chaos and emotion. Otherwise technology wouldn’t be able to manipulate it.

[tall echo]

The void looks at the basic laws of reality and says "lol nah"

[lilac aspen]

"What the heck is logic!?!?"
Void eagle screeching

[earnest zealot]

I like to think of it as a catalytic energy source.

If you expose it to other energy sources, whether it's electricity, pressure, or the big one -- emotions --, it reacts with it to create something new. For electricity, a source of power. For pressure, a physical barrier. For emotion, well, I think we've seen quite enough of what that interaction brings about.

Then again, it could all just be || The Man in the Wall, aka The Indifference || acting however it sees fit.

[restive river]

The void is largely kinda nothing, some ambient energy but it’s untime and unspace
With consciousness, particularly emotions and concepts it makes things
Though it’s that particular void energy that seems to be used in void tech, like Warframes

The void, by itself, doesn’t do anything

It seems it didn’t even have void energy until Albrecht stepped foot into the void as the Orokin largely decided the void wasn’t worth investigating as they had only found nothing
But I’m not 100% sure on that

that being no energy til albrecht

[high bay]

In terms of capitalistic ruthlessness, who has a wider profit margin relative to scale, the Corpus or the Confederacy Of Independent Systems(Star Wars)

[restive river]

Is the confederacy based in multiple star systems?
I mean I’m assuming they are
In which case they probably make more money overall as the Corpus are tied to one system

[high bay]

The confederacy is based in multiple systems, so yeah, it’s understandable that they have a higher raw profit margin

I was curious about comparing the profit margins and then taking into account the scale of the conglomerate

Like scaling up the corpus’ Grofit margin to a similar scale to the confederacy’s, who has a better profit margin

I am very tired (because of school, y’all are wonderful)

[restive river]

I feel like if the Corpus had access to the same level of scale as the confederacy they’d make more
But
I’m not too versed in star wars stuff so idk

I’m going off of tech somewhat which if I had to guess Warframe has better tech aside from lacking things like FTL travel and the like
But again, idk star wars enough to really compare beyond modes of travel

[feral cape]

It has to follow the rules of thought/logic

[vague lark]

This just might beeee

De should chime in

[restive river]

Gyre was based off the Zariman dancer Gyra who predated the entire Warframe project, including Volt and Mag
so
doubt it :p

[river tangle]

uuhhh

[tall echo]

Warframes can not produce offspring

Jade is an exception that was pregnant before getting transformed

[stray herald]

How many kuva queens are there?

[tall echo]

1

[stray herald]

Rlly? The child is the only one left?

[graceful swan]

1 after the War Within

[normal mountain]

On that thought
I wonder what would happen if we mixed different warframe strains

[tall echo]

They're former orokin

[graceful swan]

Elder literally died in the Quest

[normal mountain]

Say we metaphorically put Volt and Mag strains in a blender (or literally, idk)
What might happen

[tall echo]

They're the same straim

Strain

[normal mountain]

Thought there might be slight differences between the warframes, because of how radically different they turn out

[stray herald]

I always thought the queens are distributed across the origin system, like different hives

[normal mountain]

But if they're just the same, and it's all based on nurturing, then oh well, brain train ded

[tall echo]

They're different designs

[stray herald]

Like more than two queens exist

[tall echo]

They're not bees

[stray herald]

Would loved them to be like that

[devout verge]

Technically, it's not impossible for the Elder Queen to just come back to life. Orokin are hard to kill, and Ordis' lost memories describe some of them just laughing off death. Given a new body and a bunch of Kuva, she might pop right back up.
-# (Considering that we don't know how he survived the first time, we can't actually be sure that Ballas is actually dead for good, either.)

That being said, no, there were always only the two Queens.

[graceful swan]

The method used to extend life that they used failed she’s too far gone to come back to life now

[sly ibex]

Ballas is dead-dead. As for the first time, he may just not have died other than the time with Ordan. I honestly think that story was an example of blue Kuva, from Grandmother's Naberus story.

[proper barn]

Worm. They are twins.

[graceful swan]

Isn’t Worm just in a younger Grineer body?

[steel creek]

can someone explain the duviri paradox? im quite confused as to what that is how the same person appears in the new war

[restive river]

Did you play the new war?
Do you remember the lesson on eternalism?

[proper barn]

Yes

[steel creek]

yeah i did and it made me confused even more

[proper barn]

Duviri paradox happens like basically whenever the fade to black and then we login back in.

[graceful swan]

Drifter and Operator got stabbed at the same time

[steel creek]

???

[steel creek]

yeah i figured that out after i heard ballas in duviri

[graceful swan]

Drifter is an alternate Operator

[steel creek]

how tho? through eternalism?

[graceful swan]

Yes

[steel creek]

beecause if im correct the operator made a deal where he killed other versions of themselves so like how is the drifter alive?

youre saying drifter is an alternate version of the operator but how isnt the drifter dead?

[restive river]

Drifter is the version of the Operator that wasn’t saved

[steel creek]

and also how did he end up in duviri? i know he created it but like how

[graceful swan]

Drifter got teleported into Operators deal while it was happening

[steel creek]

then why kill the other versions of the operator? what made the drifter special?

[restive river]

When the Operator made their deal it seems only two outcomes lived
The Operator, who got powers and was saved along with the other Tenno
And the Drifter who did not get powers and was not saved

[restive river]

Conceptual embodiment

[graceful swan]

He read a book while emotional

[restive river]

Emotions and concepts mix with the void to create stuff

[lean garden]

Alternate interpretation of that event is that until the drifter interfered, what you saw was the operator reliving multiple runs of their personal history of when they first made the deal with wally

[restive river]

Read a book to control your emotions as a child, try to control said emotions but oop you’re traumatized and the void does what it does best
Makes a world from the concepts and emotions in your mind

[steel creek]

so those werent alternate versions of the operator?

[steel creek]

so he created duviri in the void using conceptual embodiment

[restive river]

Yes, they created duviri in the void via conceptual embodiment
They didn’t really have any control over it though

[steel creek]

then why kill himself if he created duviri :/

makes no sense

[restive river]

What?

The Drifter didn’t kill themselves???

[proper barn]

The drifter doesn't control duviri.

[steel creek]

in the opening of duviri he talks about getting killed loop after loop

[steel creek]

dominus does?

[lean garden]

In this interpretation, no. Theyre all the same operator repeating that one loop over and over until the drifter interferes

[restive river]

They don’t have control of that.

[graceful swan]

The Void created the deathloop

[proper barn]

Yes.

[silk atlas]

Damnit I wrong pinged

[restive river]

The Drifter doesn’t have control over Duviri, Thrax does.

[steel creek]

so how does the drifter get the ability to time loop then?

if he has no void powers

[graceful swan]

Drifter didn’t even have control of their emotions let alone Duviri

[restive river]

They get void powers during the new war
And they likely get their time loop abilities from their experience with Duviri

[graceful swan]

Drifter doesn’t have time loop powers per se

[steel creek]

so youre telling me that the drifter created duviri and made himself a friend named dominus and for some reason this friend of his decides to kill him over and over again?

[graceful swan]

Kinda

[steel creek]

how did he time loop in 1999 then?

[restive river]

I mean they gained control of and expanded the 1999 loop but they haven’t created any loops

[restive river]

You don’t have control of what is made with conceptual embodiment
Do you control your emotions and the concepts in your head?

[steel creek]

doesnt 1999 count as a loop cuz he loops that year all the time?

[graceful swan]

It really depends on how you define time loop powers really

[restive river]

The loop existed before the Drifter got there, the loop exists because of Albrecht.

[steel creek]

so albrecht has time loop powers?

[graceful swan]

No

[restive river]

The loop existed
Drifter got there
Wally had control
We took control back and extended it to the entire year so we could learn more and love the Hex.

[restive river]

No
We don’t know how he made the loop.

He doesn’t have void powers but he is the like
Best void scientist

[graceful swan]

Entrati Family are known to manipulate time

[silk atlas]

He had a time machine at least

[lean garden]

Well, drifter specifically talks about this on the KIM, dominus really didnt like the fact that at some point drifter wanted to leave duviri, so dominus started killing drifter repeatedly to keep them in duviri

[steel creek]

so albrect decided to go to a random point in time and loop them?

[silk atlas]

Not random, he wanted the reactor to explode for something else he was doing.

[steel creek]

so basically a toxic friendship

[graceful swan]

Potent weaponry, exquisite anatomy, those are trivial. But temporal manipulation? Even the Entrati-

The Entrati have violated time, and I have violated them.

[steel creek]

ok so now that the drifter has gone to 1999 and prevented the nuke from happening does that mean a new timeline?

cuz im pretty sure the operator and warframes exist cuz the nuke happened right?

[lean garden]

No, same timeline

[lean garden]

Very much no. The nuke is largely inconsequential for what comes next

[steel creek]

that is?

[steel creek]

wait what? i thought the nuke had to go off cuz its an event thats supposed to happen right?

[lean garden]

At least 18 radiation wars, expansion of humanity past earth, the rise of the orokin empire

[graceful swan]

Albrecht just wanted the nuke to go off

[lean garden]

A single reactor exploding is very inconsequential compared to a radiation war

[lean garden]

Events can be changed

[steel creek]

for what???

[lean garden]

Let alone 18 of them

[graceful swan]

Traces of the original still persist

[restive river]

I mean it exploded every loop until we got there

[steel creek]

so basically the grandfather paradox is applied in 1999? whatever you change in the past cant change the future?

[restive river]

I’m not so certain he actually wanted the nuke to go off ngl :p

[lean garden]

No

[silk atlas]

Wait then why was Albrecht just kinda twiddling his thumbs in '99 for us

[restive river]

We change the past and that changes the future
See Coda liches.

[steel creek]

yeah yeah the technocyte coda

[lean garden]

There is no grandfathering in 1999, but you can change the future, but the changes are so small they dont butterfly you into the high heavens

You are not your own grandpa

[steel creek]

so drifter stops nuke = on lyne turning into techrot lich

[restive river]

Idk actually, but the reactor goes off cause Y2K not because of anything we do
We stop it from going off entirely both times

[restive river]

No.
The Coda are clones of the boys and were already made.

The boys are safe
Somewhere

The coda clones are who we fight with in 1999 and later in the origin system

They’re infested so they can take the long way no problem

[graceful swan]

Gregory V the original worst Manager ever

[stray herald]

Sigh, true time travel in wf feels like a pain to get around due to how the infested bois are coming

[restive river]

It is true time travel

[stray herald]

Ik it is, thats why its a pain

[lean garden]

Hey just because it hurts you to take the long way forward dont mean itll hurt some boy band clone

[scenic depot]

When we craft a warframe do we 3d print a mutated human

[proper barn]

The foundry has special stuff for Infested flesh (helminth).

[lean garden]

Yep

[devout verge]

Warframe's time travel rules run on "timey whimey stuff".
On one hand, every decision, every possibility creates a separate timeline, according to the class on Eternalism in the Zariman cutscene during New War.
On the other hand, Lua spy missions show that changing the past actually changes "what happened", but only after you changed the past. Which, to stay consistent with multiple timelines, would mean that you don't actually return to your present, but to an alternative present created by your change. Meanwhile, your "old" present continues to exist, but without you in it, because you "returned" to a "newly created" present. Yay!

We'll see what the explanation for the Technocyte Coda will be, but Warframe time travel either contains a whole bunch of timelines in which Tenno just disappeared after stepping through a time disruption on Lua, or it's just "whatever the plot demands".

[scenic depot]

Amazing

[proper barn]

We aren't stealing Terry the Ostron from his husband Jerry The Ostron to make a warframe.

[devout verge]

You aren't. I do what I want!

[proper barn]

Lmao.

[devout verge]

Also, Terry was a terrible husband, never did the dishes. He had it coming, really.

[proper barn]

You just want Terry for yourself.

Greedy Cheshire.

[devout verge]

Oh, no, I'm gonna get Jerry next. Can't have a mourning widower around, that just ruins the mood.

[lean garden]

Eh, not necessarily. Just because eternalism allows for alternate timelines to be "real" doesnt mean its not impossible to change your actual timeline.

The same nerds who brought us this eternalism nonsense are the same nerds that say events can be rewritten

[normal mountain]

Make sure they didn't adopt any kids
Would suck to see them back in the system

[devout verge]

The thing is, "rewriting timelines" makes no sense and is exactly what I mean by "whatever the plot demands".

[normal mountain]

What do you mean?
Makes perfect sense to me

[devout verge]

Do you have any idea how many Warframes I still have to build? I hope they have kids.

[lean garden]

I mean, it makes sense to me, you just make changes, there will still be alternate timelines, theyre still not your own timeline

[devout verge]

The problem with "changing the past" rather than "creating a new past" is that it's inherently paradoxical.

It requires an order to changes that happen outside of time. Which would require an equivalent to time that exists outside of time.

[proper barn]

I actually really like the lore reasons for warframe idle animations. It's the like vestiges of the perpersonality of the person used to make the warframe.

[proper barn]

There is a tablet in the Zariman that talks about this.

[lean garden]

Its not inherently paradoxical considering the full quote:
Events can be rewritten, traces of the original persist.

The paradox is resolved because those traces can easily include whatever reason you needed to hop back to make a change

[proper barn]

So like who knows?

[lean garden]

DE gave themselves an out when it comes to remembering the past

[proper barn]

Also yeah it's so far back.

[lean garden]

We're talking about lua spy time rifts lol

Its not too far back

[graceful swan]

Can anything that exists still be erased

[normal mountain]

How far back do those take us?
I somehow managed to complete Lua without ever doing one of those

[proper barn]

Oh those. Those are werid. Also I think those are just werid void time ripple things.

[lean garden]

Well its probably between old war and now

[normal mountain]

Oh, that's neat

[devout verge]

You just made the problem more complex, not less complex, by implying that there's a filter mechanism deciding what can be changed and what can't.

[lean garden]

Its kicking the can down the road.

The eternalism nerds have laid it out for us: you can absolutely change events, and you (evidently) dont run into bootstrap paradoxes because some trace remains. This alone is sufficient to explain how things like the time rift works.

If you want to ponder just what remains and what doesnt, youre free to do so, but how our timeline can be changed should already be satisfied by the palimpsest of space time

Also its not a matter of "what cant be changed" but a matter of "what becomes a trace"

[devout verge]

Which is exactly what I mean by "whatever the plot demands".

"The eternalism nerds" were actually DE's writers, who were more concerned with writing a story than with making actually consistent time travel rules, so they decided that the rules were "whatever we need at the time".

That's fair, Warframe is a story about super child soldiers using space magic, not a hard sci-fi analysis of the consequences of time travel.

But the result is that any hard analysis of Warframe's rules of time travel are bound to fail, because it runs on plot convenience.

[lean garden]

Eh, I mean I dont necessarily disagree on what the plot demands, but like what the in-universe enternalism nerds have told us, its a direct change to the timeline, and not some hop and a skip to another once a change is made

The time travel rules arent strict and rigid, but theres enough to form a decent enough picture on what happens

[lean garden]

If it was a hop and a skip, "rewritten" is the furthest word I'd choose regarding that

[devout verge]

When does the change occur?

When you move to the past?
When you return from the past?
While you are in the past? Is this a "meanwhile, in the future" thing?

"Dunno, some stuff can be changed, but not entirely" isn't a rule, it doesn't even qualify as a proper guideline.

[lean garden]

Your answer is not even matching your question homie

[devout verge]

They're two separate points.

[lean garden]

Based on the tennocon trailer, it might be a "meanwhile in the present"

Because thats the exact wording they used in that trailer: "meanwhile in..."

[normal mountain]

I would say it adjusts while you are in the past, but that's only because I don't see why the changes wouldn't take place until you come back
Maybe you wouldn't be able to appreciate them until you come back, but that's beside the point imo

[lean garden]

A fun way to test it is by running lua spy with a friend and both of you go to the same vault

[devout verge]

Considering that "Meanwhile, in the future" is a TvTropes meme about incredibly poorly written time travel, that kinda says a lot.

[normal mountain]

Oh yeah, forgot they did that in the TennoCon thing

[lean garden]

Okay

[normal mountain]

Maybe you should tell yourself "it's just a video game, I should really just relax"

[devout verge]

I mean, theoretical point to test it: Travel five minutes to the past to say hello to yourself, and watch your memories rewrite themselves in real time. Hope you won't turn crazy from the experience.

[plush phoenix]

i bet you loved bioshock infinite

[normal mountain]

With how the mind works, it'd probably be like recalling one of those details you originally didn't think was important

[lean garden]

Anyhoo, the use of the word "rewritten" is a pretty strong point to note that theyve chosen to push towards changing timelines instead of bunny hopping to another

[devout verge]

I mean, I just said earlier that it doesn't have to make sense, because it's just a story. I'm arguing with people who say "it does make sense, actually".

[lean garden]

Because it does make sense lmao

[normal mountain]

Yes, but you are nitpicking for details we don't actually have right now
That's how we got into this rabbit hole in the first place

[lean garden]

Like I tell you that the bootstrap is resolved because traces of the original remain, and then you move to the next thing by saying in essence that we dont know exactly what remains as traces

[lean garden]

But by that point it doesnt matter, because the bootstrap is resolved, and determining what can remain is an entirely separate issue

So the function of changing time functionally makes sense

[devout verge]

You "solve" the bootstrap by introducing an arbitrary filter, which isn't an actual solution.

[lean garden]

Even if theres lots of room for "what thebplot demands"

[lean garden]

The filter being arbitrary is a separate issue altogether. Fact of the matter is that there is something that allows for the bootstrap to be resolved that exists in the text

[normal mountain]

It's arbitrary because we have yet to actually have a proper example of time travel changing events
Context is key

I imagine changing minor events will leave most of the current future unchanged, like with Lua Spy time void stuffs

But say you went and assassinated Ballas before the Old War
That would have massive repercussions on almost all of Warframe history, and the future would almost certainly be rendered nigh unrecognizable

[lean garden]

And which we can tell by the way DE is exercising time travel, theyre deliberately avoiding anything that can have major repercussions

[devout verge]

That implies that, in the great universe, some things are objectively more important than others.
Which implies that there's something assigning value to these things.

[normal mountain]

Which I thank them for, despite my love of paradox

[lean garden]

Old earth records get destroyed, so its not like we can crossreference 1999 to any texts

[lean garden]

Which is a separate issue from time travel mechanics making sense

Because now youre in the territory of what gets priority, and less in how things resolve

[devout verge]

The problem isn't what gets priority, the problem is that there are priorities.

[silk atlas]

Why is that problem?

[lean garden]

Which is again a separate issue from time travel mechanics making sense

[devout verge]

Nature doesn't care. The universe doesn't suspend gravity because you're not important enough to fall down.

Having seperate rules for "important" and "unimportant" changes means there's value asigned.

[normal mountain]

But history DOES care
That's the point here

[devout verge]

History, as "Events as remembered", yes.
To the passage of time, each pebble is as important as another, no matter if it's a rock that lies around or a rock that exterminates the dinosaurs.

[silk atlas]

Evidently not if the only thing the reactor not blowing up changed is just regular WF timeline but there's Coda here now.

[lean garden]

There being priorities dont mean the rules stop making sense, it just means that, as per usual in warframe lore, there are things not covered.

This, as I say again, doesnt mean they stop making sense, it just means that we dont know down to the minutia. We've already covered enough ground to send the train down the track(s)

[sly ibex]

I think the reactor probably didn't originally explode. My bigger issue is the incredible difference in the number of people dying/suddenly living. That would completely alter who even exists in the future.

[north ferry]

I mean, considering it is a loop, it's somewhat seperated from the flow of time outside said loop.

[gray silo]

Unless there's a secondary event which wipes all those people out anyway coming down the pipeline rendering all our efforts in 1999 utterly futile. 😃

With the exception of those they choose to keep.

[glacial bough]

We know there's going to be future outbreaks and multiple wars

[balmy token]

are warframes robots, humans or parasites

[woven coyote]

Originally Infected humans, but also infected clones of such that we make now

And sometimes just some void shenanigans lol

[balmy token]

so i guess parasites

and void

[woven coyote]

Ehhhh not quite

When i mentioned the void i was more referencing the revenant prime incident

And we also have confirmation that even the current frames we use still have traces of the personality of the human who originated them

[restive river]

Cloned humans mutated by the infestation

Void attuned and tenno controlled, lest they go feral and thus uncontrollable

[north ferry]

Yes

[lament stirrup]

Does the average warframe even have mechanical parts grafted on? Or, is it all just directed infested growth?

Caliban, Vauban, and Gyre notwithstanding.

[tall echo]

Just infestation

[lament stirrup]

Ballas T-poses over the insipid tech heads once more.

[proper barn]

Not robots just a metal outer shell. Like a Cadbury Egg.

[proper barn]

Also play The sacrifice

[north jolt]

Humans turned infested and having robotic bits jammed into them tldr

[left oyster]

Explains it in the sacrifice quest

[blissful merlin]

Take everyone’s advice. Play sacrifice lol.

[left oyster]

Yeah itll make more sense story wise than everyone throwing info at u

[old dome]

actually abt warframes,,, silly question but do yall think the reason they (we?) cant swim is bc steel & other strong metals erode in the water...??

& warframes are basically half metal half infested, infected flesh... so theyd just drown bc of how heavy their bodies are?

[orchid ruin]

whatever the reason it's negated by using archwings

[tall echo]

They can swim

Just not in literal coolant or eidolon-cursed water

And there's no actual metal involved in frame creation, their skin is just as hard as sword-steel

[feral cape]

Please don't swim there's not an animation for it

[north ferry]

Also... do we need to see them swim.

[woven coyote]

The presence of metal is likely more literal than that assumes, considering the codex fragment that states the infestation can alter stuff on a molecular level

But metal or not density would be the main thing deciding how well they would swim

[tall echo]

Ballas directly states "their skin hardened into sword-steel" but that's still infestation just imitating steel

[lament stirrup]

I mean, the infestation can warp both flesh and metal. Its not at all implausible it could forge steel using the iron in blood and the carbon in flesh.

[vague lark]

Jade isn't an exception cuz she died and turned into the baby

[balmy token]

also ive finished all the main quests

(i forgot alot of what happens in the sacrifice)

[digital grail]

No she died and gave birth she didn't turn into the baby

[cerulean lake]

Where did you get the idea she turned into the baby?

[raven urchin]

Guys, We will get a Jade prime at some time, but will they prime the baby too? Or Jade Prime will not have a baby? Since the Prime are a customization from the Orokin purely fashionist bio manipulation?

[graceful swan]

Jade we see wasn’t the only Jade that existed

[raven urchin]

I see, so we are talking of a primary batch, this primary was made into a prime while our Jade was the wife of Stalker

[graceful swan]

When you build Jade you are building a clone of the original Jade Prime would just be another Woman turned into a Jade frame but gold with better stats

[steel creek]

im kinda confused about something we have the entire origin system and youre telling me there are no aliens? just humans or species humans created? what is that about? will we ever get an alien faction?

[graceful swan]

DE purposely made it so there aren’t aliens in Warframe they wanted to be unique

[steel creek]

wait so what are the orokin then?

[graceful swan]

Humans

[steel creek]

just a group of humans?

howd they get different skin colours then?

[graceful swan]

Refacia kits

[steel creek]

?

[tepid lance]

they made a living meat tower, changing their own skin color seems like less of a feat than that...

like they mastered genetic engineering and such...

[steel creek]

i see

[graceful swan]

Basically everything in Warframe is human or created by humans

[steel creek]

one more thing so albrect entrati was in deimos during the whole new war?

[graceful swan]

Albrecht was gone way before the New War

He left during the Old War

[tepid lance]

he's been in 1999 world for a looong time...

[steel creek]

whyd he leave his daughter behind ;-;

[tepid lance]

good question...

[steel creek]

albrecht's daughter is the mother entrati right/

[graceful swan]

She was an adult who had a husband by that time

[steel creek]

i guess we'll never know

alright next one what is gonna be next? like after the hex quest?

i heard albrecht say "tau is in sight" is that a void relic?

[graceful swan]

Echoes of 1999

[steel creek]

sorry i meant requiem mod

[graceful swan]

Tau is a place

[steel creek]

techrot encore?

[raven urchin]

Because his megalomanic was more important

[tepid lance]

tau is a different star system that the orokin wanted to go to because they were running out of space... that's where they sent the sentients to terraform for them...

[steel creek]

why does he want to go there?

[tepid lance]

breaking their taboos on making artificial intelligences...

[graceful swan]

Albrecht is Orokin at heart all Orokin wanted to move there

[tepid lance]

which backfired on them massively because the sentients became sentient and decided they would rather destroy the orokin than let them destroy tau...

[steel creek]

even the lotus?

[tepid lance]

she did come to the origin system as part of the army attacking the orokin...

[steel creek]

and the tenno right??

[tepid lance]

then lots of manipulation and ballas shenanigans happened...

[graceful swan]

The original plan was for her to kill us

[raven urchin]

I'm sorry for asking bro, have you watched the cutscenes?

[steel creek]

its been a while since i played warframe im trying to catch up on the story

[tepid lance]

the original plan after ballas got involved and had her take over control of the lotus was to kill the orokin, then the tenno...

[raven urchin]

That makes sense

[steel creek]

sorry

[raven urchin]

Don't be, it's just that there is a lot of new tenno that ask some things they can see after playing, but don't play and just come asking questions

[steel creek]

i already was spoiled for witw tle and the hex so like

[tepid lance]

how far have you gotten through the quests atm, kakarot?..

[steel creek]

last i played the newest quest i had finished was the new war

[tepid lance]

i see... yeah you might consider going on the wiki and reading through the synopsies of the major story quests to help you catch up...

now i have a question about the sentient's original plan for the war=P...

like what do we think their plan was?.. just swoop in and eat the sun, or see if they could wipe out the orokin first then eat the sun if they couldn't?..

[raven urchin]

The New war period of Warframe, for me, was the most confused plot twister quest ever made, almost like a TV show with cliffhangers cutscene after cutscene, so I do understand you trying to understand all of it coming back after so long.

[graceful swan]

Old War or New War?

[tepid lance]

old war...

[graceful swan]

Destroying the Sun wasn’t in their plans during Old War

[raven urchin]

It was probably the former, it seems they came like kamikazes

[steel creek]

all i remember from the old war was excalibur prime making an appearance lol

[graceful swan]

Old War they just wanted to kill everyone

No, it was Prime

[lean garden]

Well technically, we did see excal prime in the old war, and nova prime and mag prime

[steel creek]

bruh umbra was black and excalibur prime was white

[raven urchin]

Yeah, I confused with Sacrifice

[steel creek]

sacrifice was goated ngl

[tepid lance]

do we know this for sure?..

[graceful swan]

Yes

Destroying the Sun was Ballas’s plan

[tepid lance]

i'm talking before that, when the sentients came to the origin system to attack...

seemed like they had the capability to do that back then as well...

[graceful swan]

The Old War plan was just to kill the Orokin, Tenno and the frames

[tepid lance]

indeed, and eating the sun would be a very efficient way of doing so... they were already kamikazeing so a using a method that sounds like it could be very dangerous like that doesn't seem like it would be off the table to me...

[graceful swan]

The only reason the Orokin wanted to go to Tau though was because they were worried about running out of recourses and the fact the Sun will explode in 5 Billion years

The Sentients didn’t think about destroying the Sun at the time

[tepid lance]

do we have any specific information confirming that they did not want to destroy the sun?..

[graceful swan]

There’s no evidence suggesting they actually did want to

Existing evidence just points to them purely just wanting death

[tepid lance]

then why do you seem so sure when saying they didn't wanna eat the sun?..

[graceful swan]

Because nothing they did indicated it

[tepid lance]

well we don't really have any information from the exact moment they came to the system so there wouldn't be...

[graceful swan]

The only reason they went to the Moon in the Old War was because of Ballas the only reason they went to the Sun in the New War was because of Ballas

They just wanted the Orokin dead

[tepid lance]

ok this is going nowhere...

[graceful swan]

It is

There’s just no evidence suggesting they did or didn’t that’s why we can’t say they did

Much of the Old War isn’t actually shown to us

[tepid lance]

then that also means that you can't say they didn't, right?..

[graceful swan]

I say they didn’t based on info we actually have

Nothing currently points towards them doing that

[tepid lance]

that is kinda boring, just invalidates all speculation...

and kinda hypocritical, actually...

[strange plinth]

afaik the only point towards them (planning to) devour the sun during the old war is praghasa's ability to do so
n even then, that isn't a big point. praghasa eats ships to regenerate herself, eating the sun instead isn't a gigantic stretch for the sentients

[lean garden]

you'd think they'd do that instead of the funky infiltrate-the-nest plan

[graceful swan]

Wouldn’t destroying the Sun also kill the Sentients or freeze them something like that

[tepid lance]

yeah that is basically why i think they were planning to do that, either from the get go or after seeing if they could just wipe the orokin out easily with sun eating as the backup... but then they wnet into the whole complicated thing with ballas...

[tepid lance]

they had already given up the ability to reproduce to come attack, doesn't really seem like they were planning to return... unless they were planning to return the way ballas tried to go to tau... so i guess the sun eating might have been the return ticket...
though it's a return ticket that would kill the orokin so if they were planning to do it at some point it should have been at the start...

i gotta go get some food now, i'll just leave me current thought on it... i think they came to origin planning to just eat the sun but the trip damaged the mothership, possibly because of void entity, and they were left having to find a backup plan at least while the ship was recovering...

[graceful swan]

The only reason they didn’t was because that would defeat the plot unless you count Albrechts requiem

[tepid lance]

that is a stupid reason...

[strange plinth]

if the sentients decided to kill the orokin because they wanted to prevent the ruthless exploitation of tau, is it possible they saw the entire origin system as too big of a cost? don't wipe the system, just cut out the tumor
dunno, the meta reason is good enough for me, just a little thought

[lean garden]

I would say that the fact that they went with the nest plan instead indicates that sun-eating efficiency wasnt on their list

There would be very little reasons for operation theatres all over Sol if the Sentients needed only to gun for the sun

There's also the fact that sun-eating is a scorched earth tactic that came from ballas, not the sentient themselves, which might suggest what their considerations were for the war in Origin

[strange plinth]

true
ballas seemed content to rule over narmer until we came back
then he went for the sun

[lean garden]

Especially since one of the clowns that started all of this specifically stated that they die with the sun

[river tangle]

can the man in the wall impersonate dead person?

[graceful swan]

If he so wishes probably

[north jolt]

Okay so random thought I had but I don't think the Cephalon process in of itself inherently changes "who you are" in terms of memories and personality. It's just that when the Orokin controlled the process they deliberately messed around with people's brains to change them, kind of like altering files while doing a transfer or something. So now I'm wondering, is it actually possible to become a cephalon but maintain your current personality?

[graceful swan]

He knows the nickname both our and Albrechts parents called us

[restive river]

I feel like you could look at what happened to Suda for this since she willingly became one

[lean garden]

well, suda in essence

[north jolt]

Kinda, her mind wasn't altered directly by the Orokin prior right? but she was suffering a degredation of the mind and became a Cephalon to escape that. So probably the closest example we have

That or the times where "Ordan Karris" momentarily pops up before being suppressed again

[lean garden]

Oh theres also the whole nihil issue

[graceful swan]

Ever since Belly of the Beast came out so many people learned Ordis was Ordan and now ask for Ordan to come back

[north jolt]

I think Nihil's deal was intentionally half-a**ing the process as a sadistic way to "kill" people

[lean garden]

nonono, he did it to himself

[restive river]

Nihil’s a cephalon and he isnt really changed at all

[lean garden]

so like, that answers your question

[north jolt]

Ohh, right

[strange plinth]

i wasn't around for it, but was nora any different when she got cephalon'd for a bit?
n yeah nihil cephalon'd himself

[north jolt]

I thought you was talking about his victims :p but yeah that's also true

[north jolt]

Well she almost died

[restive river]

I do like to think we beat him so hard we did break him
Which is why he says the same lines when you tap his glass, plus his hologram is cracked

[north jolt]

See Nihil didn't turn people fully into cephalons, he just trapped them in crystals where they were presumably just slowly die

[restive river]

He was glassing people

[north jolt]

Kinda like being frozen I guess

Actually is there any quest or anything in the game that goes into more detail on HOW the full Cephalon process actually works?

[graceful swan]

Isn’t Nihil just glassed not actually Cephaloned yet

[strange plinth]

there's the little bits that drifter talks about with amir
beyond that, i think nihil's shenanigans are the best we have?
maybe from the holdfasts, though i haven't super paid attention to them to know for sure

[feral cape]

It also kills every sentient in sol and doesn't confirm the kill on orokin

If i posses the ability to phase into a separate dimension whenever I so please blowing up the sun has no baring on me and me alone everyone else can be engulfed by the inferno but I sit simply in my throne in a separate dimension

[merry bloom]

Whats the spoiler policy here everything game or noo

[brave umbra]

i just finished the hex what just happend

[silk atlas]

Everything, but give the most recent update a couple weeks to be safe. Obviously, 1999 is fine

[silk atlas]

What do you mean what happened, you just saw it

[brave umbra]

how was i in arthurs mind again?

[graceful swan]

Same way you do it with Warframes

Sacrifice explained this

[tall echo]

Anything that DE tells us, so no leaks

[brave umbra]

i may have just forgot everything abt the story ngl ill read up on the wiki

[tall echo]

That is an incredible pfp

[tall echo]

Not wiki. Orokinarchives

[brave umbra]

oh alr ty

oh and after talking to the team again aft the hex, it seems like only arthur remember what happens?

[normal mountain]

Everyone remembers

[graceful swan]

If Eleanor forgot she could just read any of us’s minds to find out again

[brave umbra]

ahhh alr alr

[vast sonnet]

So what are mods exactly?

They look so big, bigger then our weapons.

How does a serration mod increase our damage?

[feral cape]

Fractions of cephalon Samodeus

[normal mountain]

That's just Rivens specifically

Pretty sure mods were Orokin inventions, but that's all I remember

[proper barn]

That's just rivens

[restive river]

What’s the difference?

[restive river]

And then relay that to the others
Though
That would be a lot of info to parse through let alone relay

I mean in theory Eleanor could see every moment of the Drifter’s time in Duviri, every execution, every spiral

[feral cape]

The only lore on mods that exists is Samodeus

[restive river]

Iirc that just relates to rivens though, no?

I know enemies use mods too
Which ig is how we get them too somewhat?
how do the scaldra get mods

[feral cape]

Rivens are unlocked with war within right?

[restive river]

Iirc yes

[feral cape]

"Until now, you've ignorantly used my creations for whatever suits you, but this is only a taste of what I have accomplished. For now, you can nest my beautiful creations inside your crude rifle like a sad philistine until you understand the depths of my unique creations."[1]

This message comes at the end of war within

Meaning before you can have a riven

[restive river]

Ah so ig they did make them
Which I then ask again
how do the scaldra have them
If they do

Which since they drop them I assume they do

[proper barn]

He's not connected to the weave he's just in the Jar.

[restive river]

Could say Albrecht outfitted them

[feral cape]

Im pretty sure he's connected to the weave just isolated

[proper barn]

Also if you are glassed but not cephalonized you can be returned to your body.

[restive river]

No but what’s the difference between being glassed and being a cephalon
Cause from what I know you get glassed and become a cephalon, from that point you may or may not be used and may or may not have precepts applied

[proper barn]

I think it's this.

[restive river]

I would def say Nihil is not just glassed by this point, we never see his body outside the weave and he def seems to be a cephalon once in the jar
Going off the hologram on top that I’m assuming is a representation of the cephalon’s mind as we see with the others

[woven coyote]

That would make no sense really

The message you get from samodeus after unlocking rivens talks about using his creations before he goes on to mention rivens

"You used rivens so here are rivens"

Like ???

[proper barn]

He wanted to use Nora's Body and Signal

Right?

[proper barn]

Okay i think becoming a cephalon like you are glassed and then changed into a obedient cephalon with all your like precepts and everything. That seems like a longer process than just glassing someone.

Even Ballas does like part of that process to Ordis in his story.

[restive river]

I don’t recall the body part but maybe the signal?
Its been a bit

[restive river]

Idk, I’d say glassing is the process and once fully glassed you’re a cephalon
Which
Nora wasn’t but Nihil was

Though depending on the mind they may need to add precepts and edit the individual to be obedient, but they’d still be a cephalon

[proper barn]

Don't all cephalons have precepts?

[restive river]

🤷‍♀️

Idk if Suda does
I don’t think Nihil does and I def classify him as a cephalon

[silk atlas]

It could just be Suda's are very lax, considering she's hardly in conflict with her own dutires

[sly ibex]

Isn't War Within when you get access to them?

[feral cape]

Yes but the message comes at the very end of war within meaning the "until now" means his creations are also regular mods

[sly ibex]

He does also say the following, though:

"My beautiful creations (which you know as Riven Mods) were beginning to bore me, so I've reconfigured certain parameters to make my art truly shine. Be cautious when engaging in your crude Tenno bartering, as some mods may not be as they once were."

[feral cape]

That's for when disposition changes

[sly ibex]

Yeah, but the wording implies exclusively Rivens as his creations in the message. The second part of the War Within mail message, too:

"The first thing you must learn is that each piece of my grand creation is malleable and unique. Each piece is both solitary and part of my fractured self. Do you understand? I fear I may have overwhelmed you already. To begin, I'll limit you to a dozen and three, but you'll quickly see the vast array of hidden possibilities, both rapturous and unfavorable. Now, leave me be and return here when you can share what my art has shown you."

I do think he did create all mods in general, but his lines feel kind of contradictory. I hope we get more Samodeus lore in the future!

[feral cape]

It could also just be him liking rivens more

[high bay]

Because I am a power scaling nerd, who’d win, a standard battle group of Grineer, or a standard battle group of Cabal from Destiny?

[feral cape]

Cabal

There 800~ pounds of pure muscle and there standard munitions are micro rockets

[feral cape]

A description of standard cabal munitions from a good friend

Also like not a standard battle group but they have a ship that eats stars and planets

[blissful merlin]

Cabal for sure…

[feral cape]

Also like it does depend on the "standard" battle group because like the cabal had 2 major factions the red legion and the shadow legion

And one posses mild paracausal abilities

[blissful merlin]

Cabal had many faction/legions other than just the red legion and shadow legion lol but know the mods here don’t like when we focus on other games and I don’t wanna get yelled at. But yea…cabal Empire had more than those 2 which the shadow legion was mainly clones of Calus’s army at that point.

[feral cape]

Yea but those are the 2 major ones and ig like caitals stuff

[proper barn]

But like how many grinner are in a normal battle group?

[feral cape]

I don't think we're ever given solid information

[proper barn]

It's implied that Grinner control so much of the solar system just from pure numbers.

[feral cape]

The cable are said to have conquered multiple different solar systems

I believe they were also able to wage war against xivu for a decent amount of time before ultimately losing there home world to the hive god of war

Also the standard cabal enslaved psions and so they have psionic powers in there battle groups

[high bay]

By standard battle group of Grineer, I was referring to the battle group you can summon in the simulacrum, my apologies for the confusion

[feral cape]

Oh the cabal a million percent

Faction vs Faction destiny wins most of the time except like maybe fallen vs corpus?? Ig

Corpus are the closest counterpart to fallen unless you want like an ideological perspective then it'd probably be hive

[lean garden]

ask the simulacrum

[humble sierra]

Are there any Warframes that can 'speak'? Koumei is an interesting example, her abilities have voicelines but they seem to be non-diegetic (heard by the audience, not in-world)

Cyte-09 has some garbled radio chatter

Kullervo has something with his 4

And obviously Grendel has the UWUs

[dreamy ruin]

han solo dies again

[humble sierra]

You're looking for #spoiler-chat

[lean garden]

I mean, rhino roars and umbra howls

theres valkyr's warcry

[high bay]

Aside from Umbra’s howl, could it be in the realm of possibility that the “vocalizations” heard from the Warframe’s that exhibit this trait could be the void energy that the frames control making noises?

[restive river]

Dante has voidtongue though that’s potentially the book and not him

[peak ether]

Can someone go over something rq for me, Margulis executed before or after warframe existence?

[graceful swan]

Warframes existed before the Tenno returned

Tenno didn’t control Warframes until after she was Executed

[raw stone]

I believe... Margulis founded the Lua nurseries for the Tenno before she died specifically.

If there was any concern about those events in the middle between Margulis taking care of the Tenno, and her being executed.

But most of this info comes from Apostasy Prologue.

And... Second Dream's epilogue conversation

[obsidian vigil]

I heard that grandmother's name is actually Dagath but she gave her name to the Warframe and that's why her name wasn't revealed when we reached rank 5 in the Deimos family, is it true?

[raw stone]

Yeah

You gotta go visit Dagath's Crypt in a dojo to hear the story at the podium.

[obsidian vigil]

I thought that was just a folktale and the girl was just a random orokin

I never thought it was actually grandmother.

[raw stone]

Oh, the victim? No, yeah it was Grandmother.

Dagath used to be relatively nameless prior to encountering Grandmother. I'm sure there were whispers or titles given to her, likewise akin to a headless calvarywoman. Dagath obvs draws inspo from the myth.

It was a bit of a surprise when I found out but also, Dagath released with Naberus that year she dropped. So 2-for-1 we got our traditional spooky story and a new frame.

[obsidian vigil]

Headless cavalrywoman? She still has her face when she serves the orokin couple no?

I thought that Dagath immediately encountered grandmother right after killing the orokin couple she used to serve so she didn't really get the headless cavalrywoman title

[old dome]

yup,, but then they melted it off as a punishement for caring about her horse & made her into a warframe bc they felt guilty about it...

[woven coyote]

Wrong order

Dax got killed for caring about the horse
Gets warframe'd with creepy smile bcs ballas
Couple laser drill the face off
Eventually meet dagath and become dagath

[graceful swan]

Names have power

Didn’t she get killed because she named the horse not cared about it?

[woven coyote]

Maybe both
But anyway couple got jelly that she dared show attention to something other than them

[graceful swan]

Orokin are a special breed of weird

[old dome]

ballas 🤝 that couple: incel behavior (will kill a woman for caring about literally anything that isnt them)

[strange plinth]

the name showed that she cared for it, in the same way the entrati fam give each other names as they heal
the name was the tipping point tho, yeah, it was the one thing the orokin couple put off-limits about the horse

[lament stirrup]

Dagath's death was an accident while they were trying to kill the horse.
The laser drill was completely on purpose though.

[raw stone]

POINT IS: By the time the Headless Calvarywoman shows up on Naberus Night to confront Dagath (Grandmother) by chance, she is already portrayed as a myth for kids who don't sleep early or something. Idk.

[old dome]

no it wasnt an accident...

[raw stone]

I ORDER YOU TO: 10 Hours Dagath's Tale narrated by Grandmother.

Chop-chop. Y'all flunked a ghost story. How do yall do that.

[silk atlas]

The horse getting killed was meant to be an "accident", but who would be Dagath was not meant to get hurt.

The horse had to go. An accidental impalement was arranged. But fate played a cruel trick, and both rider and horse were impaled.

[raw stone]

lowkey can't wait to see Dagath Prime

[hoary vapor]

Dumb question, but do you consider the Techrot as (lore-wise) part of the Infested faction?

[tall echo]

Techrot is infestation

[tall elm]

they're just a very different strain

[digital grail]

Yes they're the older weaker infested

[woven coyote]

the coda will sing in space about how things were back in their day

[sly ibex]

I don't think I'd call Techrot weaker, necessarily. It's just different.

[tall echo]

It seems much less versatile in its conversion ability

[normal mountain]

Considering Techrot has shields, it's definitely not weaker

[tall echo]

Shields isn't an indicator of strength

[normal mountain]

No, it's not
I had a point to saying that, but I've since lost it

[tall echo]

I've lost it long ago

[woven coyote]

Lore wise i feel the main points of shields are being light and regenerating

[dire mountain]

Idk about weaker but at least less evolved

Because it very much CAN infect living beings, we don't really see that much though in-game

And the one case we for sure saw, was still integrated with technology

[sly ibex]

Techrot does infest people. One of the symptoms is hardening patches of skin.

[dire mountain]

Yes it was originally called "Testudo Syndrome" due to that

But we haven't really seen it infest lifeforms is my point

We have descriptions of it

[restive river]

Is the legacyte not a gorilla?
It has gorilla behavior and was found in the zoo

My understanding is the legacyte is similar to warframes too, minus being void attuned

[dire mountain]

It is

Thats why it's the one case we've seen of it infesting a living being

[restive river]

Ye

[gentle isle]

Didn't know that was a gorilla lol

[dire mountain]

Its found in a zoo, even in the gorilla exhibit iirc

And also it's body mannerisms do read toward gorilla

Its intelligent but not quite as intelligent as a human too

[gentle isle]

New mission: cure harambe sr

[sly ibex]

The others after the quest are likely copies the Techrot made, like the Infestation does with the Ancients and other stuff.

Also, the Mutalist strain was needed to Infest "modern" technologies in the present time of Warframe. It could corrupt less complex things, which is likely why the Techrot can so easily take over 1999 technologies.

[restive river]

It’s also possible it started through tech or through experimentation it was viable with tech fairly quickly

[stray herald]

How many active tenno are there currently?

[silk atlas]

However many kids that survived the Zariman, so it can't be a ton a ton

[sly ibex]

I feel like the implication is that it was through the Hollvanian government's experimentation that it turned out how it has.

But that might just be in my head.

[restive river]

We know it further mutated and accelerated due to Albrecht but it was already present enough as is
I can def see the government or just Scaldra mucking with it and that resulting in the techrot we see (ofc also accelerated by Albrecht to some extent)

[restive river]

At least as many as can fit that in a relay

[sly ibex]

I think he just spread it, but I don't think he made any specific alterations.

[silk atlas]

There were the silent carriers but that was it on Albrecht's stuff

[restive river]

Yeah that’s what I’m thinking of

He accelerated the spread of it which may have caused it to mutate faster too
Since
I don’t know if he was entirely lying about that part, he def had a hand in it so he could create his protos

[high bay]

I wonder what the material characteristics of the void thought stuff the residents of Duviri(citizens/courtiers, dax, animals) are made of. That is to ask what to ask what material in real space most closely resembles the material characteristics the inhabitants of Duviri are made of

[restive river]

Flesh?
Metal?
Stone?

[feral cape]

Your perception of the object

[woven coyote]

Maybe ceramic ?

Bcs of the masks

[cyan lantern]

Proto nidus gonna go wild!

[tall echo]

[sly ibex]

No more Protos before Loki Proto!

[idle valve]

So does the drifter casually have the power to rewind time?

[glacial bough]

Only in specific circumstances

[idle valve]

How so?

[glacial bough]

When he's in a time loop by the looks of it

[idle valve]

So he didn’t make the time loop of the hex?

[glacial bough]

No, 1999 was already a time loop

[restive river]

Albrecht made the time loop, it was only new years
The Drifter extended and reset the loop to the entire year

Though Wally seemed to have gained control at some point while we were there and then we took it back while the reactor was about to blow
But we said nuh uh

[idle valve]

Oh so the original loop was New Year’s Day over and over again? Until the drifter took it back all the way to the start of 99?

[glacial bough]

It's NYE by the time we get there. yeah

[restive river]

The Drifter likely has this ability due to their experience in Duviri tbh

[glacial bough]

We don't know how long the loop might have been

[restive river]

It sounded like it was just that one day

But coulda been the whole last week

[idle valve]

But we and the hex are still in a loop yeah of the year 1999?

[restive river]

Yeah

They’ll always be in a loop now, we retain the loop to retain our changes to history

[idle valve]

So like every new years when we kiss our chosen partner we will be kissing every same new year?

But the nuke will never happen again?

[restive river]

It’s technically the same new year but if you didnt reset their minds its just like the same year went by

[restive river]

No nuke, we completely stopped it

[idle valve]

Sorry I’m just trying to get things clear with the lore

[steel mirage]

Would time loop abilities count as Void abilities for the Drifter and the Entrati (as in obtained only through study of and immersion in the Void)

[restive river]

It only went off before we got there and have since ceased it entirely as Amir can disable it

[restive river]

Yes, it’s def void abilities

[idle valve]

Oh awesome

[glacial bough]

It's part of Drifter's power suite, it's not something you can just get

[idle valve]

Also why does Entrati look human isn’t he orokin?

[restive river]

It’s probable the time loop abilities are both a product of the Drifter’s void abilities (a piece of Wally) and some level of conceptual embodiment
Though it’s hard to say for certain if it’s both or just one I’d say

[restive river]

Orokin are human.

[idle valve]

They just get like extrem plastic surgery?

[restive river]

Yeah pretty much

[idle valve]

No wonder I told Lettie “entrati never followed the fashion”

[restive river]

Albrecht actually got all his skin torn off and his boyfriend helped grow it back
So that’s likely why he looks different from his portrait

[idle valve]

Oh I see

And also what are those big things in with loid?

[restive river]

The vessels?

[idle valve]

The titans yes

[glacial bough]

Drifter presumably didn't have any powers given the state he was in for New is as he was "before"

[restive river]

Big warframes made for fighting Wally and iirc relate to how we time travelled to 1999

[idle valve]

Wally the man in the wall and iirc is?

[restive river]

I’m aware
But they gain their powers during the new war
I think it’s plausible that their time looping is due to both them obtaining their piece of Wally and their experience in Duviri

[restive river]

Yes
Wally, The Man in the Wall, The Lidless Eye, The Indifference, The Murmur
All one in the same

[idle valve]

I’m so lost

[restive river]

Many titles for an eldritch void entity

[idle valve]

So basically now since we’ve defeated ballas we’re now after the biggest baddie of them all? The man in the wall???

[restive river]

Wally is a fan term
Man in the wall comes from Rell and Albrecht
The Lidless Eye comes from Palladino iirc (red veil person)
The Indifference/Murmur comes from Albrecht

[restive river]

Yeah, he’s the current big bad

[idle valve]

How come I’m the ending Entrati was with Wally?

[restive river]

Wally can take the form of like
Anyone :p

He takes our Operator’s form, Albrecht’s, Baro’s and Yonta’s to name the ones we know about

[idle valve]

Oh so that wasn’t really Entrati? But just Wally?

[restive river]

During which quest?

[idle valve]

The end of the hex

[restive river]

That was Albrecht

He shot Amir and us

[idle valve]

So now he teamed up with Wally?

[restive river]

No.

Everything he does is to stop Wally
Including hurt people

[idle valve]

So why was he with the evil small version of us

[restive river]

I think he’s sorta playing up being a villain so we, the Drifter, will become closer with the Hex and utilize the one thing that has been proven to stop Wally
Love

[idle valve]

I love this games lore omg

[restive river]

During Whispers?
That was Wally

During the Hex quest Wally kidnapped him with help from Scaldra

Since Wally was piloting Russalka around

[idle valve]

Ok can you tell me what the indifference or murmur is?
And are they like the same thing or no?

[idle valve]

Oh I never knew that

[restive river]

Same thing, both Wally
The Murmur is specifically a small piece of Wally sent to basically pave the way for him

I like to think about it like sending some of your skin cells out to open a door for you

[idle valve]

Oh ew…

And in the end of the new war why did Wally come out of the sun? Was he trapped there?

[restive river]

No
He came out of a void portal
He came out of it cause Ballas was basically bringing a lot of attention to things since he was trying to jump all the way to Tau

I suggest you check out the PC in the labs, it can give you the exact details on that

[idle valve]

PC in the labs?

[restive river]

Yeah
Next to Loid

In the sanctum atomica

[idle valve]

I’m going to be raiding that later then

[restive river]

To the right of loid is the Pom-2
It gives a lore recap

[idle valve]

Also was the deal between us and the man in the wall discussed?

[restive river]

We don’t know what we owe him, but we do still owe him
He gave us a piece of himself willingly

He wanted to add the last page of the grimoire to our deal and we said no so he may not be a fan of us even more than he was before :p

[restive river]

Us being all of the tenno btw

[idle valve]

And is Wally really just one half of a head… what happened to his other half

[restive river]

Except in Drifter’s version of events cause they didnt get powers

[restive river]

What?

[idle valve]

Yk how he only has a mouth and… no eyes

[restive river]

That’s just an appearance
One of many
He also has multiple limbs in that form :p

[idle valve]

Oh that’s…

[restive river]

If anything he probably takes that appearance due to or to mock Albrecht as it somewhat resembles his headwear that he wore during his first void trip (where he encountered Wally)

[idle valve]

So is Wally this absolute forgotten god that should never be dealt with because he is the biggest bad of all?

[restive river]

Not a god

He’s a void entity, possibly created by Albrecht upon his first trip into the void, he has the most power we’ve seen and his motives aren’t for the good of anything but himself

[idle valve]

Oh interesting

[restive river]

Albrecht wants to stop him and we’re doing what we can to help, though we do draw the line to a degree as Albrecht will do anything
We have morals, ethics, empathy

[idle valve]

And he doesn’t… yes?

[restive river]

There’s bits in the game that hint at Wally being incredibly old but also a lot that implies he exists because of Albrecht
It’s possible Wally existed within the void as a nothing until Albrecht showed up, which considering how Albrecht felt at the time that likely influenced Wally a great deal

[restive river]

Wally doesn’t seem to really care about anything but himself

He’s indifferent to nearly everything unless it involves him

[idle valve]

Also this is so out of it but what did granum have that the orokin want that they gave him his own warframe bodyguard

[restive river]

Man was just good at business

[idle valve]

Oh I see

[restive river]

From what I recall the Orokin kinda just let the Corpus exist during their era

[idle valve]

And is granum someone to worry about cause ngl he pisses me off

[cunning tapir]

wait that's not the comment i wanted to reply to.

[cunning tapir]

Albrecht did make enemies of the hex and the Cavia.
I know Lettie was fuming because he had her thinking she was curing people of the techrot when really she was creating silent carriers.

[restive river]

Yes, he seems to know some voidtongue and has an interest in the labs as well as his own pocket void that he has control of

If I had to label our biggest threats

1. Wally
2. Granum or Thrax
3. The Grineer Queen

[idle valve]

Ok now I just want to know who’s stronger… is hunhow still someone to worry about?

[lean garden]

Hardly

[restive river]

No, our dear old grandpa is more of a tentative ally

[cunning tapir]

Hmm.....tough question as to whose stronger.

[idle valve]

Are we cool with him now? Or is it just because he can’t compare to current threats

[restive river]

Wally is our strongest foe by far

[cunning tapir]

I'd say Wally but ifhe were really tough, he wouldn't need to rely on tricks.

[restive river]

We’re as cool with him as we’ve ever been

[lean garden]

Relatively cool

[tall echo]

What in the void is going on

[idle valve]

Oh okay cool

[idle valve]

Their clearing up the lore for me

[lean garden]

You should at least refine your perspective of strength to not be one of physical might

[restive river]

We saved his daughter
Stopped his idiot son
And helped his roommate find his family
He doesn’t have as much hate for the tenno as he once had

[idle valve]

Does umbra still have a presence in the game? I’d really like to see him fight again like in the sacrifice quest

[restive river]

Kinda, he was mentioned in Jade Shadows but his story has been told

[tall echo]

The last time I checked here was less than an hour ago and y'all sent way over 100 messages in that time

[restive river]

[lean garden]

Hell even the cancer that is League of Legends has a very inclusive perspective on strength, displaying it through might magic and cunning

[idle valve]

I’d like to see umbra fight another person like in the story going toe to toe up against someone

Idk i feel like it would be cool

[restive river]

We know there will be no more Umbra frames

[tall echo]

Umbra won't play a major role again

[cunning tapir]

I'm not making light of Wally. I'm just saying in a fair fight. I think we'd pulverize him.

[idle valve]

That sucks

[restive river]

Though DE could always change their stance
Though
I doubt it

[glacial bough]

It's more he's tired than less hate

[tall echo]

Well. No.

[restive river]

Define fair fight

[lean garden]

But what is a fair fight

[idle valve]

What brought the orokin to be the orokin? From humans to giant long armed gold Pilar’s?

[restive river]

True
Though I’d argue he’s less hateful due to what he’s witnessed and being trapped and tired

Poor guy must soak in an ocean

[tall echo]

Fashion

[idle valve]

…

Is that it…

They suck at it…

[tall echo]

That is genuinely the answer

[idle valve]

Does the infestation have a hive mind like one whole king beast they represent or nah

[tall echo]

The infestation is a hive mind

[cunning tapir]

It's just hard to take someone seriously when his weakness is the literal power of friendship.

[idle valve]

Does it have a place point or place of origin?

[restive river]

Unknown

[tall echo]

Unknown

[idle valve]

Damn

[cunning tapir]

Could be a timeloop?

[tall echo]

If there is one it's probably in eris or earth

[restive river]

Doubtful, it was there before Albrecht showed up

All he did was spread it faster.

[glacial bough]

It began on Earth, there's just no knowledge of how

[idle valve]

Do you guys think there will ever be an “End” to the story of the origin system?

[restive river]

We do know it can travel from eris to earth
Plague star
Though unknown if it started there

[cunning tapir]

Didn't they say he started the techrot outbreak?

[glacial bough]

No

[tall echo]

Yes

[restive river]

Possibly one day, though hopefully that’s a long ways away

[tall echo]

Well, that's just eris launching big globs at random

[restive river]

Though Soulframe is on the horizon :)

[restive river]

Yeah but it takes a lot to launch something to another celestial body :p

[idle valve]

If time were to be an enemy of mine I would want the whole DE team to tell me the ending and the story of warframe on my death bed

[restive river]

Not only do you have to escape the gravity well but you also need to have the right trajectory and correcting launching time

[tall echo]

I don't think even DE knows most of the story yet

[cunning tapir]

and avoid hitting other planets.

[restive river]

That’s not really a problem

[tall echo]

Or just. Launch it and hope for the worst

[idle valve]

Will we ever get an update on stalkers new kid (Orion) for me

[restive river]

It’s incredibly difficult to accidentally hit something in space
It’s more likely you’d miss

[tall echo]

Hitting other planets is the intention

[restive river]

Yeah

[cunning tapir]

ok, that sounded way better in my head.

[restive river]

Don’t like the possibility of infested globs just
Floating in deep space beyond the Oort cloud-

[tall echo]

That is basically what the "plague stars" are though

[restive river]

Is it? I thought it specifically was aiming for Earth

[tall echo]

They're not aimed at earth

[restive river]

I guess I overestimated how smart the infestation is :p

which
Still p smart but I guess not that smart

Though in theory it could just nab a nav system and utilize that, in theory it could plan routes

A more organized infestation would be the end of everything

[tall echo]

It prefers either aimless travel or joining involuntary hosts

[restive river]

So there’s likely infested blobs out there beyond the Oort cloud heading to destinations unknown

non-zero percent chance an infested glob from the old war made it to Tau

If we get Tau I could see that being an event ngl
An old war infested glob touching down and we have to keep the peace between the sentients and infestation

[glacial bough]

Plague Star was specifically meant for Earth, but there could be others, yes.

[tall echo]

...or voluntary hosts, actually. Those exist too

[tall echo]

Huh. I remember otherwise. Then again, my memory is notoriously useless

[restive river]

It was?
So the infestation can plan for interplanetary trajectory

[restive river]

Stop erasing things

[restive river]

Thank you Arlo very cool

[tall echo]

Remember that one guy that tried to argue that the infestation is the good side

Just because he couldn't deal with people. Being individuals

[feral cape]

Who wins a guy who can punch a planet in half or a guy who has the power to erase someone from time at will? Who wins in a fight is a multifaceted conversation and rarely will it ever come down to raw strength

Because the guy who can punch planets can't do a whole lot about being erased from time

This is very common thing across most media the guy with super cool powers mostly beats the guy who punch and kicks

[silk atlas]

Unless somehow your punches and kicks also screw with time and space

Hello there, Dragon Ball

[cunning tapir]

I still can't take Wally seriously when his kryptonite is the literal power of friendship.

[silk atlas]

He's still a major issue to deal with

[high bay]

Really silly question: did Ms. Rebecca Ford have any creative input into the Lotus’ color scheme?

[glacial bough]

Unlikely

She was just an intern at the time of creation

[cunning tapir]

Yeah. But I can see how he's finally going to die: Self-Love.
Me personally: After preying on other people's trauma to suit it's own ends, it feels more satisfying that the one form of love that finally kills it is loving yourself.

[feral cape]

He can affect beings across an infinite multiverse

Friendship being a weakness does negate how powerful he is

Odds are if he gets his finger back we lose vex style we never were and never will be

[dire mountain]

Hes stuck at the bottom of an ocean. So not really. Even with his fragments, they're not a huge threat to us.

That being said he's definitely not looking for a fight any time soon judging by jade shadows.

[dire mountain]

Physically or culturally. Physically is just them flexing.

Culturally is a lot of unknowns but according to Albrecht, the events in Höllvania will chart the course of human history for the next 10000 years.

[woven trench]

Is the sanctum anatomica in the void?

[normal mountain]

When you have witnessed the Power of Friendship manifest a giant laser, as I have, you tend to take it a bit more seriously

[proper barn]

The one in the deimos basement? No and yes. The Void specifically wallys part of it is Leaking/attacking it but it's in diemos.

[woven trench]

Man
Albrericht is kind of a jerk

[proper barn]

Yeah there's a reason so many if our allies want to kill him.

[woven trench]

OG Loid is also kind of a jerk

[dire mountain]

Tbf he was abandoned and put into cryo

He literally did not have the time to not be bitter about that

[proper barn]

He's just British

[old dome]

skill issue bc if i was put into cryo & woke up to find that my lover put my personality into a small android that has been running the whole show after my cryosleep started... i'd be happy to know that at least someone has been keeping the place held together.

[proper barn]

He did that before he put him to sleep.

[old dome]

even more of a skill issue then!

[proper barn]

Lmao

[woven trench]

Why does this server bann the most mild of curse words?
God sake DE the game this server based off have curse words

[proper barn]

But yeah I think Loid is a good character and very like "guard up" but very well meaning.

[old dome]

like bruh,,, necraloid has been trying to keep deimos safe THE ENTIRE TIME!! & this (i cant swear here 😫) wakes up one day & decides to be an a-hole to him?? JUST BC HE HIMSELF WAS BITTER THAT HE WAS PUT INTO CRYO???

[proper barn]

I mean I get it. Also we get like 2 characters saying higher league curse words.

[proper barn]

Was he that?

[old dome]

yes!! its why ppl dont like human loid

[proper barn]

He seems more like "oh it's time for me to fix everything"

Cuz like he's not over Albretch leaving and saying nothing that he wanted to say.

Idk dawg I get it. Also Human Loid later is nicer to Robot Loid.

[old dome]

ok but he didnt have to insult necraloid every step of the way... & then dismiss him entirely when necra was just trying to help

[proper barn]

Also Loid was the one that like makes sure the cavia lived.

[old dome]

he really wasnt... maybe when you get the syndicate up but in the beginning he was NOT nice to necra.

[proper barn]

It's called Character development.

We love it.

[proper barn]

Yeah and Tagfer and Fish hated each other. Also they get sick and all sound sad for like 2 ranks

[old dome]

i hate it... good for him but i hate it—you shouldve been nicer from the beginning you inconsiderate brat! no wonder albrecht left you. i would too.

[proper barn]

He didn't leave him

[proper barn]

Also tagfer was also this.

And you not upset at tagfer?

[old dome]

tbh no bc i didnt pay attention to him

[proper barn]

He literally is depressed and just hates Fib

[old dome]

meanwhile i had to watch loid berate & belittle necra in the first 5 minutes of the quest when all that little android wanted was to be helpful...

[proper barn]

You learn why but like it's a major plot point.

Idk i like interesting characters that dislike other characters.

Like the family are so interesting cuz they all hate each other but you repair their trust and relationships.

[old dome]

tbh i dont interact w the cavia syndicate at all... or any syndicates for that matter.

[proper barn]

Oh then we just don't agree at all.

Or play the same game even.

[old dome]

i do too but only when its reasonable hatred & dislike... not when someone is genuinely trying to be helpful!

[proper barn]

Like if you don't rank up Syndicates the story is 10 times worse. I can't imagine not ranking up

Syndicates and seeing their changes and how they change.

[old dome]

im just too lazy tbh,,, the main story is already too much as is...

[proper barn]

Do you dislike Father? Or Mother?

They don't hate each other for good reasons.

[old dome]

yup. especially mother... im more interested in grandma & the 2 kids.

[proper barn]

Also Father at higher ranks even says like "hey I said some stuff about my wife I regret"

[proper barn]

Grandma is father's mom

I swear if you didn't know that I'm gonna wanna tackle you

[old dome]

yea i know,,,

[proper barn]

Okay good.

[old dome]

wouldve been funny if she was albrecht's mom tho

[proper barn]

I mean the kids also dislike each other.

[proper barn]

Albretch is Mother's Dad

What did you think Albretch was her brother?

[old dome]

& they mend that relationship at... what? rank 2 of the syndicate?? & its such a good development for both

[old dome]

bcksbakndns no,, i just think itd be funny if she was his mom & not father's.

[proper barn]

Sure.

[graceful swan]

People really get confused at this family tree don’t they

[proper barn]

To be fair

Having a character called mother is annoying.

[graceful swan]

At least it changes when we rank up

Grandmother can be confusing if you don’t listen to the conversations

[raw stone]

To be honest, I didn't know that Dagath stayed with her son. But to be honest it kinda makes sense

[proper barn]

Okay Dagath the warframe and grandma aren't the same

The warframe just got the Name from Grandma.

[drifting mirage]

Yes

[stray herald]

What does the ranking of a kuva lich mean?

[drifting mirage]

In lore? They're more powerful because they've survived you longer & gotten the Queens' favor. In mechanics? Stronk. May have more resistances. Higher level.

[stray herald]

Thats lame. Just an older grineer getting special treatment

Wait wdym survived me longer?

[drifting mirage]

Kuva liches are Tenno adversaries.

They're specifically testing themselves against you.

[stray herald]

Is them being larvlings a part of the test?

[drifting mirage]

They're resurrected from the larvalings yes

[woven trench]

Isn't acolytes like...just stalker?

[graceful swan]

Stalker wannabes

[lilac aspen]

Stalker fan club

[graceful swan]

Stalker fans with extra steps

[woven trench]

Edgier stalker?

[lament stirrup]

The intro event for the acolytes did confirm they legitmately work with him.
Which. Honestly makes it funnier that he went to the Tenno before them when he needed help.

[graceful swan]

Now they are just on baby duty

[restive river]

Makes sense considering the situation
We’re the closest thing to a warframe expert, unlike the acolytes

[graceful swan]

Mom killed the closest thing to an expert

[restive river]

No, he was the expert
Now we and Ordis are the next best thing

And ig helminth

[graceful swan]

Actually isn’t Albrecht the next best thing

[restive river]

Albrecht isn’t available :p

[graceful swan]

True

[restive river]

But yes, relative to us he is the current expert

[graceful swan]

He’s busy on his I want to go to Tau arc

[restive river]

He designed Qorvex and made the Protos

[smoky mango]

You think we ever will or will it be always be out of reach

[restive river]

But yeah he’s busy dealing with Wally and being in the past and ig going to Tau for some reason

[restive river]

We will go, we finally have a reason
Albrecht.

[graceful swan]

Are we an expert on Infestation too?

[restive river]

Son is probably more of an expert

[smoky mango]

I doubt that, feel that al knows stuff we don’t

Along with son

[restive river]

In terms of availability
Son
Followed by us

[graceful swan]

Albrecht knows more about the Orokin than we do he lived it before we did

[restive river]

Technically the helminth or any infested that’s willing to speak which. Isn’t many :p

[smoky mango]

I feel this next update is going to open more of the general rasalka and where she factors into this

[restive river]

He literally predates us

[smoky mango]

Given Wally was controlling her

[restive river]

She was the door for him

[smoky mango]

You think Elenor knows much?

[restive river]

She likely became the door for him due to the ARG

[restive river]

She knows a fair amount but her knowledge is of the techrot, not the wider infestation
Though in theory she could really learn about anyone

All she has to do is reach out

She did it with Russalka and we got info on Wally

[smoky mango]

She can tell there’s parts to us along with the lotus

[restive river]

She’s dubbed the Lotus as the Three-Faced Goddess
Which
Very fitting

[smoky mango]

I’m sure there will be some plot point to expand on this update within the story of rasalka

[restive river]

That’s the next update :p

[graceful swan]

Eleanor only knows as much as she decides to read the mind of even then she may not understand the info she reads

[smoky mango]

Well yes I mean tennocon type anticipation

[restive river]

Like
We’re gonna be talking to her parents and likely going into more depth on her

[smoky mango]

I’m sure if Wally controlled her, she made a deal of sort

My guess

[restive river]

The most I can see for Russalka is her being used as a puppet again in the future, one of many forms Wally will take to muck with us

I doubt Russalka made a deal

[graceful swan]

Eleanor mentioned seeing the other version of her

[smoky mango]

She did?

[restive river]

Of Eleanor yes

She spoke with an alt version of herself that was a nun

[smoky mango]

Oh damn that’s wild

[graceful swan]

Didn’t she push it back

[smoky mango]

I still gotta get to rank 5 with the hex….

I assume there will be more in this update in addition for rank 5

[restive river]

Yeah she severed the connection
Iirc she spoke with her again after tho

[restive river]

The new protos
The furniture store
The new weapons
Probably new arcanes

Def would be good to get to rank 5 while you can and stock up on Hex treasures to prep

[smoky mango]

Oh hell yeah, wait furniture for my orbiter finally?!

[restive river]

For the backroom, orbiter, dormizone, whatever you want

[graceful swan]

New chats

[smoky mango]

Wait new proto frames

[restive river]

We’re getting 1999 style stuff finally

[restive river]

Ye new chats :D

[restive river]

Have you not been looking at the news?

[smoky mango]

So the mom and dad of rasalka?

[restive river]

We got 4 new protos

[smoky mango]

Nope none of it

[restive river]

Adopted parents yes

Frost and Saryn protos are her adopted parents
Accompanying them is Nova proto and Temple proto, relation unknown

[smoky mango]

I figured we’d get more of daddy stalker story

[restive river]

At some point we will yes

Also big in the next update is infested liches

[left oyster]

Why is tagfer always so pissed off?

[smoky mango]

Finally!

[smoky mango]

His wife was killed by entrati

[restive river]

Albrecht
Minn died
His situation is horrible

[smoky mango]

It’s pretty bad

[restive river]

It’s cosmic horror bad

[left oyster]

I thought his wife was the cat😭🙏