lore-discussion

[smoky solstice]

it can be changed by implanting different memories I guess, if it's possible to implant memories in the first place, but that's not exactly a comforting outcome to me

idk how the ability to change your reality at a whim is just something that doesn't carry any amount of weight to you

[lean garden]

it carries much less weight because it has a cure

[feral cape]

Also implanting fake memories into us is likely outside of wallys power considering wally isn't capable of creating stuff that hasn't already been created

[chilly iron]

It's not changing reality.
I was with him as he did, we did it together
Is not remembering you did it alone

[smoky solstice]

but it's not a cure, it's doing the same crap again but differently

[smoky solstice]

it doesn't matter, the operator still remembers they were a part of it when they weren't

[lean garden]

it absolutely can be a cure lmao, since you yourself posit that you can reimplant different memories again, why should the original memories be excluded?

[smoky solstice]

like what's the cure exactly to you? so wow, we have a protagonist that is completely unreliable, has to rely that idk the Lotus or someone else implants the "correct" memories of what happened into them? this is not a cure, it's horrifying

[chilly iron]

We were in this instance
We lived the memory with him

[feral cape]

Its also not something wally has even demonstrated the capacity to do at all

[chilly iron]

But also this ^

[lean garden]

your own mechanisms contain the method to restore the operator to the status quo, this is by nature what a cure is

[smoky solstice]

not that we know of, but Wally is the one leading us to all the prelude of war scenes, including ones to do with our past, I don't think it's crazy to think there's some massaging of the truth going on there

[lean garden]

as "horrifying" as it is, your own mechanisms have a possibility to go back to normal

[feral cape]

He's showing us our memories

[smoky solstice]

what mechanisms? how can the operator remember the correct things again on their own? there would necessarily have to be outside interference

[chilly iron]

We fact check ourselves in real life all the time

[smoky solstice]

and we just take that 100% at face value right after we're shown Wally being satisfied of the fact that we are able to just not remember things as they actually happened?

[lean garden]

okay, does that change the fact that its possible to return to the original status quo?

because it doesnt

[feral cape]

Which is not wallys doing

[smoky solstice]

he's literally leading us down into every cutscene I believe

maybe not every cutscene, I remember at least one of the preludes being Wally leading us

[chilly iron]

What if he's satisfied that we're guilty and heavy about it, and that's it

[smoky solstice]

the Ballas Paracesis one

[feral cape]

Us remembering stuff we didn't do is a product of umbras specific transference bolt

[lean garden]

it is also prudent to remember that Wally's first words after the sacrifice were asking us how we feel

[chilly iron]

Or happy that we understand more deeply how Transference, his gift, works

[smoky solstice]

yeah? how do people with dementia "fact check" themselves? ig by leaving notes, but we also don't let them do literally anything once it's progressed past a certain point

[lean garden]

which goes into this, which is supported back by the KIM texts

[chilly iron]

We don't have dementia, friend

[feral cape]

Maybe but like us having umbras memories isn't something he can do it has to be the product of the bolt

[smoky solstice]

my point is that we rely on our memory greatly, if we remember something happened a certain way, we treat it as if that's what actually happened
if the operator remembers killing Isaah, they killed Isaah
if Wally ends up massaging the truth in terms of some aspects in the preludes, we'd have no way of knowing

[feral cape]

Me trying to convince everyone 6 people entered the vog

[smoky solstice]

it's not Umbra specific though, it seems that that's the entire mechanism by which the Tenno managed to calm the Warframes

the originals I mean

it is Umbra specific in comparison to the rest of our current arsenal of replicated warframes though

look I'm not here saying that everything is a lie and we should live in fear, I'm just saying that there might be something to this considering the nature by which this sort of memory manipulation is shown to us in game

the fact that Wally seems very amused of this right after the Sacrifice, essentially confirming that we do remember it as us playing a part in the death of Isaah, despite the fact that that's not what happened
and then we go straight into the preludes

[chilly iron]

That one sentence is getting a lot of assumptions that aren't validated anywhere else

[smoky solstice]

although this could be a plot point that kinda ran its course? like I think it could be relevant in regards to the Old War and the Tenno during the fall of the Orokin, aside from this maybe this kinda set up some of the veil stuff
idk if this is something DE is bringing back, except maybe to confirm this theory, if that's the actual direction they take

[chilly iron]

"I killed him" doesn't have to mean "I think i personally went in and killed him back then"

[feral cape]

There's also like the fact we enter umbras memories from a 3rd person perspective and are talking to him

[smoky solstice]

they're validated by the direction of the dialogue. "I killed Isaah" (note, this is not played as a metaphor, and the voice acting implies guilt, not just empathy), then Wally answers "Is that how you remember it? Good.", pretty much confirming that that is what's happening here, our memory being changed to fit the narrative that we played a part in the whole hospital scene

[chilly iron]

Why is this not played as a metaphor?

[smoky solstice]

I mean DE could've just had the most stupid writing on Earth, but I personally don't think that's the case

it's specifically calling attention to this aspect of the plot

and also not in any way implying that the Operator thinks that this is all just like symbollic

[lean garden]

I mean it could very well be deepening of Wally's characterisation of an entity that enjoys the suffering of others, in which this instance fits the bill very easily

especially since wally's first question was how do we feel, not what do we remember

[smoky solstice]

oh the exact dialogue confirms it even more:
"Did you now? Is that how you remember it?"
"Yes."
"Good."

if this is supposed to imply that the operator just like symbollically felt like they killed Isaah, then idk

this is terrible writing to imply that, especially since this is in the game in the first place

if they wanted to imply that that's what happened, they didn't need this encounter

since without this encounter, that's already the implication

[chilly iron]

It's not terrible when the story is about empathy, and sharing the pain

[smoky solstice]

aka the fact that they have this encounter is additional evidence that this is the Operator actually remembering doing this and not just like feeling unjustified guilt about it

[smoky solstice]

yes, that part we already went through in the quest, without this encounter with Wally, the implication is that we didn't literally remember it
the fact that DE added this in addition to all of that seems to further prove that DE wants us to know that this is the Operator's memory actually being changed to take some of the burden off of Umbra

[lean garden]

Again, I would like to draw attention to wally's first line to us

[feral cape]

Okay but where does this imply that wally (not an inverse transference bolt) can alter our memories

[smoky solstice]

especially when the dialogue doesn't just have an "I killed Isaah" and it also has a confirmation built in with the Operator answering "Yes" to Wally, which seems to be like the writers removing all ambiguity

[feral cape]

Since again ordis draws attention to the transference bolt flowing in reverse letting us see umbras memories rather than flowing our memories into a being

[lean garden]

The critical thing here is what youre assuming wally is getting out of the interaction, the first sentence is a very strong context indicator, especially considering what we've seen wally works with

[smoky solstice]

I already responded to this like 100 messages earlier - this doesn't on its own, I find it interesting that DE put this scene in there and Wally's reaction to the Operator thinking this is what happened, then right after this we have the preludes, which for all we know could've been manipulated by Wally in any way he pleases

that's the tl;dr version, but I went more into depth before and like you were here, pretty sure you read it already

[feral cape]

Which isn't required for transference since silvana transferenced into a forest which doesn't posses the capacity to have memories

[smoky solstice]

anyway, this is what I believe for sure

what I believe for sure is that the Operator's memory was changed and they genuinely believe they killed Isaah
everything else? I mean there's not really much there yet

I think there will probably be a reveal in the future as to what the promise actually was, at least a stronger implication than what we have now

so for now it's just something to keep in mind for me

[lean garden]

Do also keep in mind, even for what our side of the deal was, what is wally's relation with emotions

[smoky solstice]

not a big fan generally

[lean garden]

and keep in mind what wally asked for in the first place once he catches us in the orbiter after the sacrifice

[graceful swan]

Actually there’s evidence suggesting trees do have memories

[lean garden]

not a big fan of the nice ones, very happy with the not nice ones

[feral cape]

In what sense

[smoky solstice]

ok so you're implying that the fact that he asks us how we feel, and we respond with like a dispondent "I... killed Isaah", aka maybe like showing a degree of dettachment from emotions, Wally responding positively to this is more just to show that he's satisfied with the fact that we're not feeling

[lean garden]

no no, he's responding positively to us feeling like doodoo

[smoky solstice]

I mean the weird thing is that he shouldn't be happy with the not nice ones, indifference is not hate, or anger, it's an absence of emotion, it's literally dettaching yourself from them for some goal you consider greater

[lean garden]

as tagfer puts it, its not really indifferent

[feral cape]

I feel like you're taking the name that he was given literally

[smoky solstice]

that's why I think he was fine with the nukes going off (kinda relitigating stuff we've talked about already), since it is the "indifferent" option, killing all these people for some greater goal

[feral cape]

Albrecht gave him that name

[smoky solstice]

it's also because of the thematics of it all

[lean garden]

and like, it has expressed pleasure at seeing suffering, like when it felt satisfied when it made eleanor feel so insignificant and crushed

[feral cape]

He didn't name himself that so why should it hold weight

And as we learn in dagaths story names have power referring to the wally as the indifference was most likely an attempt to strip it of action and power by albretch

[smoky solstice]

like Albrecht disregarding everything else and putting all of his attention to stop Wally, that's a part of the story which is supposed to be like "he screwed up here", because he was essentially doing what it wanted, completely ignoring relationships and his own humanity because of some threat he considered greater than all that

the way I see it this theme is deep in the roots of it all, I don't just think it's indifferent because of the name

[lean garden]

well given how much psychoanalytical bs can be tagged to the void, and what specifically wally has been allergic too, its a Indifference VS love scenario not an indifference VS emotion scenario

[smoky solstice]

I don't remember that exact interaction to know exactly if this would fall in line with the indifference thing. Because indifference is kinda just a way to cope with negative emotions, it's literally emotional dettachment, as I mentioned before. So if it was that type of despair, then I don't think it would contradict it

[smoky solstice]

maybe, I have felt some inconsistencies there anyway

like how it seems awfully vengeful for an indifferent being, just as an obvious example

[lean garden]

which is why its closer to a freudian interpretation of indifference

which is contrasted as the opposite of love, not all emotion

goober freud said that when a man gets sick he abandons all love for indifference

[smoky solstice]

oh that seems totally like what they could be going for

since it's like a philosophical basis for this word

[lean garden]

you'd be surprised how much psychoanalytical whackadoo can be tagger to wally that thus far have been fairly accurate

[smoky solstice]

and love is also specifically namedropped as being the weakness

[lean garden]

i.e the concept of the other

[smoky solstice]

honestly Entrati has always given me like freudian vibe to him anyway

like I'm not too familiar of freud but just what I do know

[feral cape]

Also rells crew wrote something on the walls in blood "what is ___ but indifference"

[smoky solstice]

I think Albrecht's VA could probably voice one of Freud's books and I'd think it's the man himself

[smoky solstice]

what is the implication here

[feral cape]

The blank is nme not remembering what was written

I think it was evil or hate or something

[smoky solstice]

also honestly I do think that would still work with the way I read the themes, since idk about what freud wrote exactly but it still seems like the indifference is the type of indifference where it isn't like you don't feel emotion but you are indifferent to a lot of the things you shouldn't be

the sort of "ends justify the means" mentality that the story seems to be warning against

[smoky solstice]

oh I don't remember that but it does further support the theory that indifference isn't referring specifically to lack of emotion

[lean garden]

you might wanna check tagfer's rant about the indifference

[feral cape]

Well so far albretch seems to be winning all his plans are working so his ends justify the means thing is working

[smoky solstice]

and philosophical basis also means it can basically mean whatever since philosophers are always taken words that are used very differently outside the context of their works, which ig makes sense since there are only so many words in any language to express an idea

especially one no one's thought about before

[feral cape]

And as the greatest teacher said if you make a thousand plans and only use one then that is victory

[smoky solstice]

idk if the whole feeding animals to the indifference and completely disregarding Loid and his relationships "worked" exactly

idk but it seems like the current plans are working because he realised that those plans were kinda the wrong way to approach this situation

[feral cape]

Well albretchs ultimate goal is stopping wally him abandoning loid to go to the past allowed him to do his thing allowing the Drifter to time travel and unlock greater power and love which stops the indifference

Loid also had a very big outburst of emotion which could only really be caused by albretch leaving which is also helping hold the indifference at bay

[smoky solstice]

sure but I also read it as like Albrecht was a little dismissive of Loid even before he left

[feral cape]

The cavia are very important with bird 3 giving great insite into wallys perspective of reality and his own existence

[smoky solstice]

why else would he remark about being a bad partner? I mean leaving could be the only reason for it, it just feels like it's something more, like his behavior towards said partner

[chilly iron]

The Man in the Wall was also using Loids grief to encroach in the labs. That's using an emotion by our big bad

Not exactly lack of emotion there

[smoky solstice]

sure although that specifically could also be read as Loid's indifference, since he seems very clearly bitter and kinda having a bit of a "whatever" attitude to a lot of these things

I mean not all the way there

but not really having the spirit he does at the end of the quest

post-vessel cheek touch

[graceful swan]

What is evil but indifference

[lean garden]

I would say its more of Albrecht thinking very highly of loid, as shown in his notes:

Loid is, at head, a good and kind man – better than I deserve. And completely oblivious to his own true worth.
And so albrecht saying anything about being worthy of Loid should be taken in the context of this sentence

[lean garden]

I wouldnt really say loid was being indifferent, it read more as a salty man

dude spat out construct like it was a slur

[smoky solstice]

that got me good

[smoky solstice]

but yeah, ig the way I see it, he's more indifferent to what's happening, to the whole conflict, because he's bitter about what happened with Albrecht

[lean garden]

mmmm, not sure I can agree, loid does help us progress through the quest, being the one who gets us to go to the netra cells

[restive river]

I mean
Doesn’t Loid comment on how Albrecht could teach lessons on indifference? He’s arguably more indifferent to things than Wally is at times

[smoky solstice]

yeah

[restive river]

Tbh the most indifferent I feel like Wally has truly been is when Eleanor reached into Wally’s mind

Like the indifference is just a name bestowed onto Wally by Albrecht

[smoky solstice]

yeah, which is why I said he's not like all the way there yet, still like holding on a little, regaining his full fervor after the ending sequence

I really like the ending sequence of whispers now btw

[lean garden]

and then it proceeded to be a happy duckling when eleanor got got

[smoky solstice]

was a little indifferent to it at first (ha) but albrecht's va goes crazy sometimes and he did god's work here

[lean garden]

so much for indifference

[restive river]

Of the names we have for Wally the man in the wall feels the most true, especially since two separate people gave him that title on separate occasions

[restive river]

Exactly
Albrecht is more indifferent than the indifference

Like Wally is indifferent but likely only because Albrecht is
And Albrecht still had emotion
And if Wally exists because of Albrecht (conceptual embodiment) then it’s possible he’s a mirror of him
Which
Tracks with Wally ngl

I mean all he does is mirror, sometimes it’s warped but still

[graceful swan]

Plot twist all people in Warframe are Indifferent to someone or something

[restive river]

The human experience

[smoky solstice]

this says a lot about society

[restive river]

🤡 I’m da jokr baybee

[left nexus]

🤑🤑🤑😈😈😈💀💀💀🤓🤓🤓🤨📸

[digital grail]

https://tenor.com/view/im-im-the-joker-baby-the-joker-joker-gif-15849957

[dire shadow]

I finally compiled all of the Pazuul drone dialogue

And it unironically sounds good without all the General Bad Guy voice stuff

[formal granite]

just watched a clip where it was revealed that the internal canon name for the tenno is mara, which is pretty fun

[swift steppe]

wtf is internal canon name

[formal granite]

https://youtu.be/_k929pnBT9M?si=FOc4irts4fLE4obD

obviously theres no actual canon name but thats the name de treats as canon internally; hence internal canon name

[candid cipher]

what is Walle doing in the sanctum?

[tall echo]

The sandy rock areas are his domain

[proper barn]

it's his realm that is invading.

they say that.

like how parvos has his own or Duviri is Thrax's/Drfiters.

[restive river]

He is invading
He is the walls, the floor, the ceilings
He is the whisper in the walls

[digital grail]

https://tenor.com/view/fant4stic-say-that-again-gif-16690486418948643620

[restive river]

fantastic?

[proper barn]

4 even.

[woven coyote]

Name for their scripts basically

[silk atlas]

It's not canon, it's just something they used to make it easier to talk for scripts

It's like the same way names of variables in code are canon (they're not)

[north jolt]

If you look off into the distance in all directions his face is basically everywhere, formed by the sand

[restive river]

I’d argue it’s canon to some extent since we’re called mara lohk :p

[silk atlas]

Mara is being used in a different context here

Mara Detron

[restive river]

I don’t think the mara detron relates to mara lohk :p

And while yes it’s a different context it is still interesting that the internal name is mara and we are known as mara lohk in voidtongue

Like
There’s an obvious connection there

[graceful swan]

Maybe DE just like the name Mara

[restive river]

Also probable
Tbh I think they just forget they name stuff the same thing sometimes

Sirocco:

[gaunt ferry]

Question... Why is Captain Vor a plant and the Jackal a container? Like I'm genuinely flabbergasted...

[graceful swan]

Huh?

[restive river]

What

[gaunt ferry]

"Bountiful Harvest - Double drops from crates and plants" In duviri circuit, doubles the resource drop you get form jackal and captain vor

why is Vor a plant?!

[graceful swan]

He isn't

[gaunt ferry]

then is he a crate?! Am i reading way too much into that decree affecting them?

[graceful swan]

Yes

That's just a decree boosting something nothing more

[gaunt ferry]

ok good, cause i was freaking out a bit

[graceful swan]

DE love naming 2 things the same thing but completely separate especially when it comes to nodes

[restive river]

That’s just boosting drops-

[restive river]

Yup!

[gloomy cloak]

anybody have a lore reason for why Wally shows up in the orbiter, but not the 1999 backroom? Best I can come up with is that the room is sort of warded by the sigils on the walls, but if Albrecht could put those up, I would've expected his lab to be more secure

[graceful swan]

There isn't a lore reason the actual reason is DE hasn't given us the chair for Wally to spawn on yet

[lean garden]

When chair, then wally

[lean garden]

@austere void currently most if not all signs point to 1999 being the actual past

these include conversations in the KIM as well as the fact that we have the Coda to deal with in present day

[austere void]

I used to think that, but idk my brain can't make it feel right

[lean garden]

Well, uh, why

[austere void]

idk
maybe it's cuz we're affecting it in "the present" making it not the past anymore, but yeah idk

[lean garden]

I mean, you can change events, thats what the core of the palimpsest of space time says

Its our past through and through

[austere void]

yeh idk
and I don't like the idea of it just being the past too

and well, the protos aren't from the past right ?
like they were just humans, doing humans things, but it's entrati going back in time who created the proto frames nah ?

[lean garden]

They were people in the past who albrecht messed with by bringing helminth from the future

[austere void]

yeah
like if they are from our past, before Entrati went back, they didn't have anything related to protos and stuff

So proto rev could still make sense then

[lean garden]

Eh not entirely

Entrati could only bring back helminth of what existed when he went back

[austere void]

Yeeeh Rev already existed it's fine 🔥
Well, at least the warden

[lean garden]

Which rev base did not when entrati skedaddled

[austere void]

compared to the present, when did Entrati go back ?

[lean garden]

Sometime during the old war for sure, but not clear when

Its definitely after the tenno returned

[austere void]

cuz yeah in theory Rev awakened when WE awakened him, but he technically already existed, in the lake
Well, Entrati couldn't have taken his samples or whatever he needed tho

oh if it's during the old war, there's a chance Warden didn't even exist too

[austere void]

wait you mean before right ?

[lean garden]

No after

[austere void]

oh after they returned from the zariman yeah

[lean garden]

The helminth samples he took are of warframes made after the tenno arrived

[austere void]

thought you mean when we returned from the big sleep, when we start playing basically

[lean garden]

Nah nah not that

[austere void]

hhhm so there's a chance he can make Warden then 🔥
althought it wouldn't make sense to have a warden proto, but no warden frame, and it wouldn't make sense to make a warden frame since he became rev

Oh I'm sure they could tell us he collected Rev's samples when he went blup blup

wait no it happened after the old war

uuuurgh

ETERNALISM

yes, eternalism can justify that

[austere void]

lmfao

We know Albrecht went to 1999, but who knows, maybe he went to the present first, just to collect rev samples to make the rev mains happy, then went to 1999

[gloomy cloak]

isnt "present" also up to interpretation in time travel?

all perspective based

[austere void]

Also i've always been curious about smth

We know Albrecht as a human
Like in a human body

But in some pictures we see him in an orokin form, is it just like a "you'd look like this as an orokin"
or did he actually have an orokin form

[gloomy cloak]

orokin are human

just genetically modified (sometimes)

[austere void]

I knew someone was gonna say that
by "present" I mean anything that has warframe as we, players, know it, but we don't have a specific date

[lean garden]

He has one, he got cooked, loid helped him recover

[austere void]

yeh, by "orokin" I mean the blue form, ascended and all this kuva and continuity stuff

[austere void]

oooh alright

[graceful swan]

Did you not collect the notes that states how he lost his skin?

[austere void]

probably not

I did collect lotsa stuff but didn't ready everything

I'm usually too busy thinking about the goofiest rev builds I can make

[graceful swan]

“Loid nursed me then, tending first to the uprooted ruin of my eyes, then to the mouth whose grin no longer hid behind flesh”

[austere void]

So it happened cuz it was making him sick ?

[graceful swan]

No, Albrecht hurt himself after going into the Void and meeting a certain Void entity

Possibly creating said entity too

[austere void]

Oh so did he decide to go back to human form cuz he didn’t wanna look like wally?
Also yeah I remember reading about him being all cut cuz of the glass or smth

[gloomy cloak]

i think wally can shape shift anyways, so if that was his reason, it didnt work 😂

[burnt light]

I wonder if he even knows he ended up creating it unintentionally

[gloomy cloak]

he doesn't seem to care either way

just an obstacle to him it seems

[strange turtle]

He was probably just more focused on and shook by Wally to care about appearances

[polar bobcat]

I think he knows, since he sent the Cavia to "Dumb it down"
But I always theorized that he essencially birthed it with his experiences and such because he saw his life memories flash before his eyes

[graceful swan]

He didn't look like Wally in the first place he stopped looking like his blue appearance so he could blend into 1999

[feral cape]

This is the best image to come out of warframe I've seen

[feral cape]

In warframe the perspective of time is causality giving an objective frame of reference

[gloomy cloak]

true true

[austere void]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking

Cuz I remember people saying he was traumatized by that
So I thought he could have tried to change appearance thinking it’d fix the problem

[austere void]

I see it as a « I have to do everything I can do not be like him »

[austere void]

I mean didn’t he say the only thing he saw was « himself »
Talking about wally

[graceful swan]

That's because Wally copies the appearance of the person he is talking to

[strange turtle]

Ehh

[austere void]

Yeah, that’s what I mean

Since albrecht didn’t know anything about him back then, in a desperate attempt to fix stuff he could have tried to change appearance or smth

I mean now I know it’s not the case, but that was my reasoning

[strange turtle]

It’s not so much that Albrecht doesn’t want to be like Wally, and more that he was terrified it was Wally that had come out from the Void, rather than the actual him

[austere void]

yeah true

[undone quest]

someones question: is kaya filipino?
rebecca: its other earth, but if 1999 earth had a Philippines, yes she would be but it doesnt has, its like its our own culture. we guess.
clearly 90% of them didnt heard or get what the DE means
could some DE confirm here? filipino now assumes, miss heard, questions.... just yes or no "is nova a filipino?"

[loud parcel]

Where is drifter when he’s piloting the Warframe?

[glacial bough]

Same place the Op goes

[glacial bough]

I mean, it's pretty much exactly as Reb said. No, but technically yes. Same as the rest of the Protos

It's all based on IRL stuff, but alt font

[undone quest]

-_- i dont want a 50 50 . i need a yes or no only. to put a dot in warframe community saying, assuming shes a filipino. no other answer explanation

[orchid ruin]

she is 1999 earth equivalent of filipino so she would be filipino if she existed in our world

[humble sierra]

She isn't Filipino the same way Aoi isn't Japanese— the Philippines and Japan don't exist, but they have equivalents in the Warframe universe.

[glacial bough]

Alt history for them notwithstanding given WF Aztecs thrived better than irl

[barren jasper]

what exactly is the heart of deimos, (i think it's what powers majority of orokin technology, and our own powers) but that doesnt make any sense at all bc of proto frames existing back then and us being able to use transference

i would LOVE someone who's super knowledgeable on it to help me out 😭

[glacial bough]

Our powers are separate from the Heart

And Albrecht set up a void connection in 99 to use

[barren jasper]

i thought the whole point of the heart was to keep the connection to the void open, letting us use our powers

[glacial bough]

The connection keeps Warframes going

[barren jasper]

we power the warframes tho..?

and the original ones weren't powered by anything

they were just themselves

[glacial bough]

We don't, Warframes have always been seperate

[barren jasper]

but they can't control themselves without us so i'm confused

[glacial bough]

Warframes baseline use the Void as a battery, thus the Heart and why it going down wrecked our frame

Have you played The Sacrifice

[silk atlas]

They can act without us, they're just not usually mentally stable.

[barren jasper]

the copies we make tho

[proper barn]

Umbra is a copy.

[barren jasper]

im talking about current warframes

[silk atlas]

They're all "copies"

[proper barn]

Umbra is a copy he still walks around.

[glacial bough]

Current ones can't move, the originals were mostly mindless berserkers

[barren jasper]

he's the exception idk, but none of the other ones have a mind anymore

[proper barn]

Ballas might also have lied.

Cuz kullero was there and they where slaughtered.

So maybe they just weren't obedient enough.

[glacial bough]

Kullervo isn't the best example given he's very much unstable

[barren jasper]

ok but the copies we make, none of them do anything on their own. (except umbra)

[glacial bough]

Mostly. The can still buck and move in extreme circumstances

[proper barn]

my point is just the orokin/ballas might have lied about them "GOING MAD".

[proper barn]

we use them kinda like that in the new war. for a little bit.

[barren jasper]

i think it's like wearing stilts for the first time there

that's how i always saw it

and any time that the frames moved on their own i thought that was us doing it

maybe not consciously

but as a reflex

[sturdy flume]

he is a copy made partially using remnants of umbra, so it could have also copied his brain

with all the memories he had

[proper barn]

that's all warframes.

even ordis says this.

[sturdy flume]

the warframes were pre-copied and seemingly copies of warframes that were passified, compared to umbra who was just losing his mind

[proper barn]

"ordis knows this both is and isn't the same jade"

[feral cape]

Dante was also a chill guy

There's decent evidence ballas lied either as just flat out lying or by ommission

[swift steppe]

@peak ether

as i was saying

is the grandpa even mentioned in the story of deimos

[lean garden]

Which side of the family's grandpa

[feral cape]

Grandpa as in gma husband?

Albrecht gets mentioned but I don't think vilcors father did

[swift steppe]

uh yes

[peak ether]

So if I remember right, Grandmother is from Eularia’s mother side and albrecht married into the family or I could be mixing things up

[feral cape]

No

[swift steppe]

wwhy

[feral cape]

Gma is vilcors mom

[peak ether]

Ahh

[swift steppe]

ok so does vilcor has a father

[peak ether]

Probably

[feral cape]

Where do you think baby's come from

[swift steppe]

if so where is he why isnt he mentioned ever

[swift steppe]

we never know with warframe lore okay 😔

[peak ether]

But i also wouldn’t be surprised if they cloned themselves or something

[lean garden]

Some times families arent fully nuclear

Sometimes people die or be estranged

[swift steppe]

wtf is nuclear family

ive never heard this before outside of fallout lore

[peak ether]

was it ever explained why the entrati don’t care about the fact that we murdered their civilisation or did I miss the part / don’t remember them mentioning it?

[feral cape]

They have bigger issues

[peak ether]

Basically a “perfect” family

[swift steppe]

i think they have a bigger issue than that ngl

[swift steppe]

oh okay

[tall echo]

They don't really care. Kermerros isn't even angry that we killed the person he was going to marry

[swift steppe]

who was that person again

[peak ether]

Son

[tall echo]

Unnamed

[swift steppe]

wait how old is the kids

[peak ether]

oh wait nvm ignore me

[feral cape]

1k<

[swift steppe]

no ik kermerros is son XDDDDD

[tall echo]

Old enough to marry

[swift steppe]

are they children is what im asking

or are they like uh teenagers or adults

[tall echo]

Have you heard children with voices like theirs

[swift steppe]

listen mate were talking about a video game we never know

[peak ether]

They’re practically trust fund kids that are quite entitled

[swift steppe]

lmao

[peak ether]

so they never really grew up

[graceful swan]

All the Entrati are adults even if they don’t always act like it

[swift steppe]

okay

what will DE focus on after 1999

what do yall think

[graceful swan]

More Void stuff

[peak ether]

^^

[tall echo]

Void war arc

[peak ether]

Considering that’s where the story is heading

I’m hoping we get more sentient stuff in the future tho

[swift steppe]

im not sure i understand everything that is going on with wally tho

[graceful swan]

That’s the idea

[tall echo]

Good, nobody does

[graceful swan]

It’s working

[swift steppe]

oh

but why is albrecht human looking

when on the little picture idk where hes blue

like uh well entrati family

[peak ether]

He abandoned the kuva after meeting Wally

[swift steppe]

oh

kuva makes people turn blue

weird

[tall echo]

No

[graceful swan]

No, that’s body modification Kuva is used to steal bodies

[swift steppe]

oh.

[peak ether]

No he abandoned the whole continuity thing and I’m assuming the aesthetic gene editing

[swift steppe]

okay i misunderstood sorry

[tall echo]

Item description: "A portrait of an Albrecht Entrati"

[swift steppe]

oh

so that means theres multiple albrecht entrati??? what

[graceful swan]

Albrechts notes clear it up

[tall echo]

Could've skipped the countinuity bit since it wasn't related to the question

[peak ether]

Multiple bodies that he has gone through like all orokin

[tall echo]

Previous body

[swift steppe]

oh

[graceful swan]

Albrecht has been in the same body since before the Old War

He states he would never again use Kuva

[peak ether]

I guess but different physical bodies would be due to abandoning the continuity ceremony

[swift steppe]

im not sure i understand everything i think imma let this go

[peak ether]

and then there’s blue kuva that probably isn’t real but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a thing

[graceful swan]

It’s debatable

It was a Halloween story after all

[swift steppe]

do yall think DE will ever release another planet

[humble sierra]

Yeah

[peak ether]

yeah considering the only source is from a tale it’s either or

[swift steppe]

why do you think that

[tall echo]

Not in the origin system

[humble sierra]

There's suggestions we're likely going to Tau next

[swift steppe]

well

what is tau even wasnt this the solar system the sentient were supposed to conquer or smth

isnt everything destroyed there

[humble sierra]

Yeah I don't think we'll get another one in the origin system, they might need to make a new map

[swift steppe]

i think im mixing up stories

[peak ether]

It would be really interesting if sentient society ended up mimicking orokin society, becoming the very thing they waged a war against

[swift steppe]

isnt caliban a sentient

[graceful swan]

Are there even any actual planets they could add in the Origin System?

[swift steppe]

no

[humble sierra]

Tau was a system far from ours, that the Orokin sought to inhabit because they were slowly ruining this one

[peak ether]

Moons maybe? But not really planets

[humble sierra]

More moons I guess

[swift steppe]

saturn with her like

20 moons be like

[swift steppe]

oh i see

[humble sierra]

And they could go hogwild with the moons too thanks to terraforming

[tall echo]

They were supposed to prepare it for colonization

[swift steppe]

oh

[peak ether]

Then the sentients realised oh they’re gonna mess this system up as well we won’t let that happen

[tall echo]

You're saying oh a lot

[swift steppe]

sorry..

[humble sierra]

They're learning

[tall echo]

Yeah

[humble sierra]

We shouldn't be mean about that

[swift steppe]

based

[tall echo]

Not saying it's bad just kinda funneh

[peak ether]

As lore enthusiasts we welcome anyone who wants to dive into it

[swift steppe]

but isnt caliban a sentient too

[graceful swan]

Scrap just likes funny things he finds funny

[swift steppe]

he looks like one kinda

[tall echo]

I'm not better, I usually go "I see" when I'm corrected on smth

[peak ether]

Warframe made by a sentient

[swift steppe]

yeah so whats going on with caliban

[tall echo]

Half sentient

[humble sierra]

Yeah that's the whole reason they betrayed the orokin and why the Warframes were made and the Old War was fought

[graceful swan]

Amalgam

[swift steppe]

uh...

[tall echo]

Hybrid

[humble sierra]

Erra made him, during the Old War I think

[tall echo]

Erra's only good idea

[peak ether]

@swift steppe do you know Revs lore?

[swift steppe]

somebody gotta make a 9h long video about warframe lore ong

ill watch it religiously

[swift steppe]

not really

[tall echo]

Not any loretuber tho most of them are terrible

[graceful swan]

Why does Nephlim autocorrect to Cephalon? Is there something I don’t know Scrap?

[peak ether]

Rev was a completely different warframe before he came out of the eidolon stuff

[swift steppe]

yeah thats why somebody gotta make wendigoon play the game so he can do a 9h vid on the lore

[humble sierra]

Warframe got eaten by the Eidolon and warped by the void or something

Might be mixing it with Prime

[peak ether]

even in the prime trailer Ballas’ voicelines is pretty much wtf are you, you shouldn’t even exist

[swift steppe]

wtf

[tall echo]

[swift steppe]

ima watch his trailer

brb

[humble sierra]

I reset my keyboard dictionary the other day, Orokin keeps getting autocorrected to Origin and it's absolutely hell trying to say any Warframe's name or even the word Protoframe

[tall echo]

Ballas talking about rev prime is the second best roast in the history of warframe

[swift steppe]

WHAT do you mean fatherless abomination

WHAT???????

[graceful swan]

Rev Prime wasn’t created by Ballas

[tall echo]

I love how annoyed he is at rev prime's existence

[humble sierra]

Because he considers himself father of the Warframes

[peak ether]

if Lavos got a prime trailer I’d imagine ballas being confused too but then take credit that he created something that could improve or be really angry that something would even dare improve his already perfect creation

[tall echo]

Frame dadd-

[graceful swan]

Ballas couldn’t accept the fact he couldn’t take credit

[atomic jasper]

there will also be a story

[tall echo]

Of a man named stanley?

[swift steppe]

thats so cringe of ballas

[swift steppe]

i think he would be mad cuz lavos primed himself

[peak ether]

He kind of is considering he built / designed most of them

[swift steppe]

yeah hes cringe

[tall echo]

Nah he created the base, lavos prime isn't fatherless

[graceful swan]

Can I call Nef fatherless if his father didn’t accept him?

[tall echo]

You can call him disowned

[peak ether]

I think the exceptions are Dante(?), Qorvex, and revenant

[swift steppe]

ok but why is there some prime that dont have prime acces trailer or whatever

[swift steppe]

oh

[peak ether]

Not enough resources / time to allocate to them

[tall echo]

DE being busy with other stuff

[graceful swan]

Some came out before they did trailers for Primes and some DE were too busy to make

[swift steppe]

ok i understand what do yall think yareli prime lore will be

[humble sierra]

Resources mostly. They're too busy to make a trailer sometimes

[tulip kettle]

when / will we be able to replay duviri paradox?

[swift steppe]

march 19th

[humble sierra]

With the Encore update, march 19th

[tall echo]

It will somehow involve her dying again

[swift steppe]

ok i see

[swift steppe]

why do you think that

[tulip kettle]

i love you now

[tulip kettle]

i love you

[swift steppe]

do you want to marry me?

[tulip kettle]

thank you both

[humble sierra]

Can't spell Yareli without L unfortunately

[swift steppe]

and wdym "dying again" she never died? shes too good to die

[tall echo]

Base yareli? Lost a fight against an obese corpus. Deluxe? A dead base yareli that was transformed by hunhow

[peak ether]

@swift steppe another interesting warframe lore is kullervo’s you should look into that too

[swift steppe]

"an obese corpus" uh grendel (idk what im talking about)

[tall echo]

Yareli's lore is just her being bad at her job

[swift steppe]

she saved kids tho

and she looks young imo so that may be why shes bad

[tall echo]

And almost didn't

[swift steppe]

im sooo lazy to even farm for him

[graceful swan]

She definitely didn’t know how to mod her frame I’m not buying that whole she got tired stuff

[swift steppe]

what are you talking about

[peak ether]

If you consider that pretty much all warframes were made from the best of the best disposable people she’s kinda bad at her job

[swift steppe]

but she still did...

[tall echo]

Not an excuse when the literal pacifist frame is better at being a WARframe

[swift steppe]

yeah i guess but she looks very young

she looks childish a child cant be good at their job unless theyre the tenno

[tall echo]

Frames are designed

[swift steppe]

who is pacifist frame

[tall echo]

Baruuk

[swift steppe]

oh

[peak ether]

An important lore from kullervo is that he existed before the Tenno was discovered

[swift steppe]

L

[graceful swan]

The story is she died because she apparently got tired which in 99% of cases shouldn’t be possible

[peak ether]

Mental fatigue? (Cope)

[swift steppe]

its bcz merulina sung a song for her to sleep an allat yk

[tall echo]

I do wonder why ballas designed yareli to look like that

[swift steppe]

so she slept yk

[swift steppe]

same

[peak ether]

Man had an idol phase

[swift steppe]

his only W

[peak ether]

trying to find a replacement for margulis

[swift steppe]

DE give me yareli prime and my life is yours

[tall echo]

His replacement for margulis was hildryn prime

[swift steppe]

and make merulina modable please

[graceful swan]

🔜

[peak ether]

Isn’t she next on the line following the warframe releases?

[tall echo]

🔜

[swift steppe]

yes she is

i hope merulina is moddable cuz she can attack but uh

[peak ether]

Just built her too haven’t used her much but her survivability is very nice

[swift steppe]

like shes lizzie but uh skate water thing

why cant we mod her? it makes no sense

[tall echo]

Have you seen k-drive mods

[swift steppe]

do NOT talk to me about k drive

[tall echo]

Merulina is a k-drive

[swift steppe]

im focusing on the augment that makes merulina attack with you rn

[tall echo]

If it was moddable it'd use k-drive mods

[peak ether]

Off topic but can you put k drive mods on Merulina?

[graceful swan]

Wasn’t the story Yareli had the original K-Drive or something

[peak ether]

never mind

[tall echo]

Guess

[swift steppe]

yes she is

she inspired the kids and they followed her in that or smth

something along those lines

[tall echo]

She was the original skater or smth idk idc about her enough to store that information

[swift steppe]

it is exactly what you said

i do know im obsessed with yareli

[graceful swan]

You threw that info out for scraps?

[swift steppe]

i just wish she was a little bit faster

[peak ether]

Just a thought, has the line: “Excalibur was the first” been retconned?

[tall echo]

I threw it out to make space for actually useful info

[swift steppe]

wdym

[tall echo]

Not yet

[graceful swan]

Nothing released has put it’s legitimacy up to question

[tall echo]

Excal codex entry

[swift steppe]

oh

[tall echo]

Oh

Ho oh

[graceful swan]

Ohma gawd

[tall echo]

...I gotta play pokemon again

[swift steppe]

no you dont

[peak ether]

What about the phase one warframes or is that not considered anymore?

[tall echo]

Yes I do

[swift steppe]

play warframe NOW or i will find you and watch you when you sleep

or smth like that

[peak ether]

Aww you’re making sure they get a healthy amount of time sleeping and keeping them safe how sweet

[glacial bough]

Nothing about the original biodrones contradict Excalibur being first

[tall echo]

The only person that knows when I'm asleep is the operator ordered to make sure my primary storage is safe

[swift steppe]

yesss exactly

[graceful swan]

Excal would either be the first successful or actually be a phase one

[swift steppe]

no

[peak ether]

Right that makes sense

[lean garden]

The lil lore tab specifically says that the first of the frames built around the tenno is excal

[tall echo]

And santa but he's cheating

[peak ether]

Ahh the patron saint of night workers

[swift steppe]

there were other warframes not built "around the tenno" wtv that even means??

[peak ether]

Kullervo is one of them

[lean garden]

Yea all the frames that were made before the zariman emerged during the Old War

[peak ether]

he existed before the Tenno was known

[swift steppe]

how?

[tall echo]

Replay the snackrifice

[lean garden]

Wdym how

[swift steppe]

im on my phone i cant

[swift steppe]

idk im so confused rn

[peak ether]

Ballas made warframes, didn’t have control over them because they would attack everything and anything, destroyed them, Tenno is found, coincidentally the orokin realised they could control them somewhat and they made more

[swift steppe]

how they found tenno tho

[peak ether]

Randomly

[tall echo]

That is quite noticeable

[peak ether]

they found the zariman drifting in space

[swift steppe]

well that sounds great i guess

okay but wasnt the zariman sent by the orokin?

[lean garden]

Yes

[tall echo]

Void just ejected the zariman for a bit

[lean garden]

Then it crashed somewhere

[peak ether]

Yes but it got lost in the void

[lean garden]

And then it came out in real space

[swift steppe]

ok so how tf they found the tenno if THEY SENT THEM THERE

[lean garden]

And so they found the tenno

[lean garden]

You know the fantastic 4?

[peak ether]

The Tenno were just normal kids they didn’t have any powers

[swift steppe]

kind of

[tall echo]

By the void you paid no attention while playing the story, did you

[peak ether]

give them a chance lol

[swift steppe]

dude i started playing 4months ago

[lean garden]

Remember how they were normal people before the accident in space

[peak ether]

Read this in Nef Anyo’s voice for some reason

[swift steppe]

in those 4months there was a lot of things happening in my irl life

i had better things to remember than this games lore

[tall echo]

I don't know if I should take that as a compliment or an insult

[swift steppe]

same ngl

[tall echo]

Nef is voiced by the same guy as tyl regor, but it's nef

[peak ether]

I think it was because of how you started the sentence off, it’s one of the things I associate with Nef

[swift steppe]

also biggest L nef ever had is getting disowned by Parvos

[tall echo]

Disowned sniffy neffy

[peak ether]

Parvos yay or nay as a character as a whole?

[tall echo]

His biggest L is losing multiple warframe bps just because he's stupid

[tall echo]

[peak ether]

He’s not a clear cut villain right?

[tall echo]

He absolutely is a villain but he has high charisma

[peak ether]

it’s more that he’s bad because to him the ends justify the means

[tall echo]

At least... 16, with permanent advantage and bonuses in deception and persuasion

Hello yes I am a nerd

[tall echo]

And the fact that he runs a poorly disguised extra hostile pyramid scheme

Suddenly silence

[peak ether]

Do you think that Tau would be very alien considering that DE has stayed away from any alien themes so far?

[lean garden]

Its going to be very uh aztec

[peak ether]

What’s your basis on that?

[lean garden]

Letties messages

When she freaks out over what the sentients have said

[peak ether]

I’ve been locked from the convos for so long that I don’t know if I’ve even had that convo with her

[lean garden]

A "why are they quoting a south american ancient religion???" Reaction

[peak ether]

Lemme go find that convo chain rq

Oh wait is it not a KIM thing but a voiceline when you play as her fighting sentients?

[tall echo]

KIM convo

[humble sierra]

It's definitely a KIM convo

[peak ether]

Woah that’s acc super interesting considering that the orokin purged all records of anything pre orokin but somehow the sentients have data on that

or at least have somehow repeated / recreated a ridiculously ancient religion

[humble sierra]

It's LettieRank5Convo7, if you're looking on the Kimulacrum

Wow I just discovered that the Kimulacrum site has a search function

browse .wf/kim-convo-locator

No space before the . obviously

[peak ether]

didn’t even know the kimulacrum was a thing until now ty

[thin canopy]

A Sun and Moon based Religion is by no means unique, and I would imagine it was chosen as the basis for "Ancient Earth Religion" because of it prevalence within our own societies, and our tendency towards worshipping the most recognizable celestial bodies in our solar system. Sun gives life, they were sent as Farmers. Moon gives/controls water, the source of most life and equally necessary for a farming culture.

It's a cool way to humanize the Sentients

[peak ether]

Whilst I agree with that, the fact that the sentients say the exact phrase from an ancient religion can’t exactly just be a coincidence

[thin canopy]

Oh, the reference to the specific Lua/Sol wedding? For sure, that's some culture seeding by a rogue Orokin, 100%

"Rogue" might be incorrect. Secretive might be more accurate.

[peak ether]

Yeah but by the time the sentients were created weren’t anything relating to pre Orokin purged?

[thin canopy]

I mean... physical copies, sure

But the orokin lived forever

Only some would choose to also purge memory, for sheer convenience sake

Many would be forced

But the 7?

[peak ether]

Plus the idea for sentients was from a corpus no? Ballas was just in on the scheme to make sure they were created

or was it an Archimedean

[thin canopy]

I think the latter

[peak ether]

Even if the orokin can live for thousands of years, Archimedeans aren’t given the privilege of continuity?

otherwise cephalon Suda wouldn’t exist

[thin canopy]

Perhaps one of the other Executors, fearing Ballas' plan, sought to attempt to influence the Sentients, so that they might be turned to peace, and never return?

The fear of such creations was that they would turn on their master, and Ballas had to work hard to convince the others to allow the Sentient project to go through, apparently

It's not like they wouldn't know the kind of person Ballas was. You spend hundreds of years with someone, they let a few cards slip

[peak ether]

Wasn’t that him pretending to be against it?

I thought that was the work he put in to make sure they were created

[thin canopy]

Sorta reverse psychology, by the looks of things

Why would he need to feign his opposition? Posterity? Or because they were simply voting against his interests?

[lean garden]

[Play "Greatest Show" From The Greatest Showman]

(I forgot the name of the song)

[peak ether]

“You did better than I thought you would,” it was Ballas, the man, not the projection. “It would seem nobody truly knows they want a thing until you threaten to take it away.” He broke into a smile, “Wouldn’t you agree, Archimedian?”

[lean garden]

(Its the one that goes "This is the greatest show!)

[thin canopy]

Imagine having centuries of dirt on someone, and the power to remove your entire family from history. That kinda power is truly Terrifying in the scope of how little we control in our lives

There is an existential Dread that I feel is somewhat unique to Warframe, and every once and awhile it reminds you how small you can be

Really cool, for a power fantasy action game 😆

[humble sierra]

the 3 Fortuna-earned Warframes (Baruuk, Garuda, Hildryn) have such little lore, it feels

[marble pewter]

How does DE decide which Warframe they’ll add to the Leverian next? Or is it really random?

I’d love to see more entries and read everything

[proper barn]

probably pretty random.

[lean garden]

have you seen eleanor's conversation about her encounter with wally?

[thin canopy]

Been a minute, but ye

Some truly eldritch stuff when it comes to Wally

[lean garden]

ah, then what ever you said about "how small" is exactly what she went through

[tall echo]

Hildryn prime has a trailer

[tall echo]

Currently just seems to be whatever the newest one is when they have the time to make another one

[thin canopy]

There is a line in the stories of the Yellow King, about an Ant walking over the Book and suddenly being able to read the words on the page, and the world that poor ant was not design to be able to comprehend

[lean garden]

funny enough thats the poor cavia too

[lean garden]

thats the one where the ant, upon returning back to normal, cannot undo what it learnt about the world and itself right?

[thin canopy]

Yeup!

[lean garden]

causal processing error due to incompatible data

[thin canopy]

Truly forbidden knowledge

[fierce sparrow]

Hear me out lads

[tall echo]

No

[fierce sparrow]

Kinda or nah

[tall echo]

Obvious

[glacial bough]

Explicitly the point

[marble pewter]

Lol yea

[proper barn]

David bowie was litearlly who they modeled flare off of. Just glamrock.

[proper barn]

not Gene Simmons more Bowie.

[fierce sparrow]

I thought I saw some crazy tounge stuff in the trailer and black eye makeup kinda made me go that direction

[restive river]

Glamrock Freddy Bowie

[proper barn]

yeppers.

[old dome]

on the subject of sentient frames... wouldnt voruna count too?? considering she followed tuvul all the way to the ceremony site, doused herself in the kuva (+ tenno woke up at that moment?), killed tuvul, & then princess carried a tenno out...??

shes always been a frame, no?

or like. as far as we know...

[graceful swan]

Big issue with that theory is there’s nothing saying she didn’t have an Operator that was controlling Voruna

[lean garden]

no, because we saw her almost disconnect when the tenno almost woke up, we can tell that is very much her operator

[woven coyote]

Iirc the leverian does describe her seeing from two povs
Could be wrong tho just woke up

[old dome]

yeah the leverian isnt entirely clear abt it,, bc she was walking & acting on her own for years but the minute that tenno woke up her movements kinda stuttered a bit... & then she continued on like. probably normal???

[tall echo]

The leverian is VERY clear about it

It's a 1 to 1 copy of the player's operator waking up in the second dream quest

[mossy dune]

voruna umbra confirmed

[north jolt]

You think when they go infected they specifically requested the sentient guitar too?

[lilac aspen]

Probably more like just
Infected funny weird stuff

Like how Mesa naturally has her guns on her arms
Flair (or flare?) prolly just coughed up a blob that then turned into the guitar.

Honestly though the concept is interesting.
A sentient exalted weapon

[somber light]

yea, dont think they meant to request it being sentient

probably part of their story since everyone seems to have something they have issues with

[lilac aspen]

This makes it somewhat easier to comprehend on a Xaku protoframe if one ever occurs.

One body, three entities due to Helminth tomfoolery/other stuff.

[chrome rivet]

Do we have a rough estimate for how long it takes to grow a Grineer in a tube from scratch?

6 months?

[silk sorrel]

Okay I’m a bit lost and have gotten two different answers from my friends.

I haven’t played the 1999 mission yet so this is why I’m a bit lost

But is Arthur and the other ones actually Excalibur and etc?

Like if you pick up Excalibur, are you actually playing Arthur technically?

One of my friends say yes because time shenanigans and my other one says no because time shenanigans and the hex group has nothing to actually do with the Warframes we play as

[formal granite]

just realized these are primed grineer ships
from the orokin era

the grineer in the opening have always looked off to me but now i realize its the orokin era version of the armor they have now

[proper barn]

Arthur and them are actually made like "after" the frames cuz that are made like mid old war after the warframes existed.

Arthur does not become the warframe we play in normal gameplay. It was probably terry the random dude the orokin turned into excal @silk sorrel

[silk sorrel]

So the war farme blueprints aren’t made after those guys?

[tall echo]

The protoframes are made based on orokin era frames

Wait there will never be a proto rev

[restive river]

I had that realization the other day
In theory Albrecht could take the prime’s sample for it but then Proto Rev would technically be based off of the prime
Which I could see them explaining away the prime bits by having his batch be somewhat defective or reductive or something
However they do it if they do it I just hope Rebb names him Vlad as a callback to his original name and theming

[tall echo]

"Original theme" as if current rev isn't just a very poorly disguised vampire

[cursive ridge]

What’s the lore behind protoframes?

Or do we not know yet

[lean garden]

Like how theyre made?

[proper barn]

Narrow your question.

[tall echo]

Specify

[cursive ridge]

why do they exist

[proper barn]

cuz Albretch made people into them.

[cursive ridge]

ah

[proper barn]

if you want to ask why he did that

it seems to be to futher his other research.

and lead him to build the vessels.

[restive river]

“As their loyal doctor, I have taken repeated samples from them. The sight of their Technocyte-riddled cells mutating gave me fresh visions. I could take this material, work with it, forge new creations. Eagerly I brought the samples back to Deimos and began to cultivate them.

It was Loid who pointed out the singular attributes of the Gray Strain. How it stimulates growth to monstrous dimensions. Many thoughts converged on me then. What if, through precise biochemical engineering, I could create the equivalents of warframes, yet built to a titanic scale? Surely such a legion could stand against the Adversary… assuming, of course, that an Operator could be found.

Not long after, the first of my Vessels took form. A giant to battle giants, merging the humanity of the man Arthur, the anatomical perfection of Ballas' warframes, and the titanic potency of the Gray Strain. My saviors.”

It sounds like he made the protos first and from researching them and with Loid’s assistance Albrecht came to the conclusion to make the vessels

So research on potential weapons against Wally lead to a weapon against Wally

[untold spindle]

I know This Maybe Off Topic But How Much Are The Corpus Paying For All The Damages And Grunts Lost By The Tenno 😭

[left oyster]

Would 1999 be the new “origin” of warframes since its technically in the past?

[silk atlas]

No because they were plainly explained to be developed in the Orokin Era

We haven't hit the grandfather paradox of the Protoframes somehow looping back to having created the original Warframes, especially when all records from before the Orokin Era were also trashed.

[left oyster]

Thats what i was thinkin but someone told me that 1999 is the new origin bc “ once its in your past it becomes your present”

[silk atlas]

Idk what they're smoking

[drifting mirage]

All I hear is you trying to claim I'm not an Amir main now. /j

[blissful merlin]

Sounds like hulk tryna explain time travel to the avengers lol

[silk atlas]

He's smoking that good stuff what the HELL is he talking about

Bro is not paying attention to the fact that nothing of Earth survived into the "present" WF day

[left oyster]

I feel like that would be a good way to explain it

[silk atlas]

Again, anything that's happening in 1999 is largely irrelevant to what goes on in the later parts of the game. The fact the Coda survive all that time later shows that "major" deviations in past events can occur without severely screwing up the thing as a whole. We ain't no Spiderverse here

[blissful merlin]

Also we ain’t no Loki or MCU. Our timeline isn’t branching or anything like that from our intervention in the past. Thou the drifter does mention in Kim convos the idea and concept of branched timelines, 1999 is not a separate timeline or universe from the main one. Idk why that’s so hard for some people to grasp lol. Time travel can have main effects on the current timeline you’re on in most media. Only seen a few where time travel results in a branched reality tbh or a completely alternate timeline from the one you left. Warframe doesn’t seem to be following that specifically with how they’re handling time traveling back to 1999.

[feral cape]

Also the coda only "survive" because it's a massive hivemind and the thing about time is everyone could just take the long way forward

[restive river]

Nitain extract

[amber badger]

so just to ask, and because I keep getting confused:
are Protoframes alternate versions of Warframes or are they the same?

[proper barn]

They are people that where infected with the techrot Albretch injected with Helminth.

[amber badger]

aight

[dire mountain]

Neither really

They are people that Albrecht Entrati had decided to give Helminth infusions to in 1999

To create Warframes, but only partially

[left oyster]

Trying to explain basic lore to some warframe players is like talking to a brick wall

https://tenor.com/view/laugh-laughing-crying-cry-dad-gif-17845431779190203443

[digital grail]

Yup it's pain

[left oyster]

Can someone fact check this?

[proper barn]

Literally untrue Albretch says he took the helmithn from ballas' warframes.

[left oyster]

Js rewatched to ballas notes from the sacrifice and not once did he mention entrati😭 and the only “volunteers” that were mention were dax soldiers… like i said, brick wall💀💀

Asked bro for his source and not a reply yet🤦‍♂️

[proper barn]

Okay Albretch uses a version of helminth that has already made warframes.

[left oyster]

Bingo

[lean garden]

Classic Warframe Experience: Literacy Issue (Impossible)

[humble sierra]

Bro is the one who definitely needs to reread the lore

[heady quest]

Is there anyone who has made like a full detailed recap on yt? Cause lately everything has been so confusing with 1999 stuff

[south trout]

Probably but the People with lore knowledge live and breathe here

So its easier to ask here for the correct answers to your questions

[cinder plover]

Sooo who can explain the whole lore of warframe to mee 🙂

[graceful swan]

Outside of a YouTube video absolutely nobody as that would take many many hours to do

[old dome]

"volunteers" HAH yeah right. the hex wouldnt hate albrecht so much if they willingly volunteered to be experimented on by some mad scientist.

[tall echo]

"And then the orokin made a mistake"

[digital grail]

So Basically-

https://tenor.com/view/snoring-snoring-aneurysm-brain-aneurysm-brain-aww-gif-25678781

[old dome]

the aftermath of imperialism

mixed w eldritch/cosmic horror & the loss of personal agency.

[scenic depot]

Ever watched neon genesis evangelion

[cinder plover]

No

[scenic depot]

Go watch it it's basically that

I will not be paying for your therapy btw

[lean garden]

@mossy dune

With one last ululating cry, Tuvul's ritual had reached its peak. Within the cryopod, the child's eyelids fluttered and Voruna... staggered. In what scratchy stills survived in Void-corrupted datamasses, what I saw between child and Warframe was... recognition.
Voruna's operator is right there in the leverian

there are only 6 warframes that are without a doubt without an operator/autonomous(in the case of umbra and jade):
Kullervo
Dante
Jade
Stalker
Umbra
Not-Rhino

Any warframe that is built after the tenno-warframe link was discovered should be presumed by default to be operator controlled

[mossy dune]

recognition implies they may have linked in that moment

rather than seperated

[mossy dune]

koumei?

[lean garden]

previous sentence demonstrates they were already linked to begin with

Sunrise Apothic imprint:
[Silvana]: "Ballas is beyond pleased… but when I look at what I've built… at Titania, I feel sick creep up my throat. I hate her, a killer made by a healer. No more. I'm going back to where I belong, no matter the cost. I'm going back to the trees to find myself again.

"These past weeks, I've been secretly testing Transference on myself. I can only survive short bursts – linking to Titania the way only Tenno can stand. I've never felt anything like it. A tortured presence, like an evil ink, staining my mind. But… it worked. I'm going to use this wrong to make right.

"I'll stow away with Earth-bound cargo, just my Apothics and these slapdash somatics I've stolen. By nightfall I'll be home again in my tent under those bitter, acid skies. This time, I'm going to fix it. I will seed a mighty forest, stronger than history… and by my will, use it to bring life."
Excerpt does not indicate that silvana brought titania to earth, rather, it suggests she left titania, the cursed fruit of the warframe project behind as silvana went on to become the Silver Grove

[mossy dune]

Hateful at her own creation, Silvana defected and stowed away on Earth-bound cargo, having stolen Apothics and slapdash Somatics with the intention to revive her planet. Seeding a mighty forest that would become the Silver Grove, Silvana then used her Transference knowledge to successfully and permanently bond with the forest itself.

When the Orokin found out of her defection, a battalion of Dax soldiers was dispatched to bring ruin to her forest. As the trees set ablaze, Silvana sensed a familiar presence: an unseen pixie that proceeded to slay the soldiers, Titania. The Warframe had given her own life to protect the woman who hated her the most.

excerpt very much implies her sentience

However, the rider was not the same. Vacant of emotion, she would simply stand idly by, like a nonliving doll, staring at them with her perpetual smile. The couple quickly tired of their lover, and since she was no longer a Dax, their relationship was abandoned. They made a deal with an unknown master of industry, and took the rider to his facility. There, she was secured with restraints, and killed via a disintegration beam to the face, which burned a hole clean through her head.

However, the Warframe survived, and clambered out of the facility's trash heap. Still believing herself to be a Dax, the rider sought for her Nikana, but only found the whip-blade of the facility's overseer. She would remember what her masters had done to her, and with a head full of despair and betrayal, the renegade summoned a ghostly Rakhali to her side. Before the following sunrise, she took revenge on Corphel and Irilia, leaving them as faceless as she was.
as for dagath

[lean garden]

Work with me here:

1. The Tenno are directly mentioned by Silvana, this means that the Warframe Insurrections have already occured
2. Warframes who were autonomous by default, like that of Dante and Kullervo, were hunted and supposed to be destroyed
3. Titania is a warframe created past this event. Would it not be reasonable to assume that Titania, unlike her deceased cousins was built like her siblings, with Tenno-control in mind
4. None of what we both quoted removes the possibility that a Tenno succeeded in linking up with Titania

[mossy dune]

When the Orokin found out of her defection, a battalion of Dax soldiers was dispatched to bring ruin to her forest. As the trees set ablaze, Silvana sensed a familiar presence: an unseen pixie that proceeded to slay the soldiers, Titania. The Warframe had given her own life to protect the woman who hated her the most.

[lean garden]

Now in the case for Dagath, note that before she took a laser to the face, she already acts like a disconnected frame. Now upon laser, two possibilities emerge:

1. Severe damage to head undid whatever was put in place to render her inert
2. Operator connected

as such, dagath cannot be without a doubt be labeled as an autonomous frame

[mossy dune]

" given her own life " vs " the warframe was sacrificed to protect the grove "

[mossy dune]

However, the Warframe survived, and clambered out of the facility's trash heap. Still believing herself to be a Dax, the rider sought for her Nikana,

lobotomy is more likely than connection

[lean garden]

I'm ask you to pause real quick, and not use the wiki summaries

because sometimes they embellish facts, lets turn to the direct transcript

[mossy dune]

my brother in christ this is from the lore section and I'm highlighting the important part

[mossy dune]

" the writer's statements aren't canon " ahh

[lean garden]

Thats because whoever wrote the wiki page Isnt part of the narrative team of warframe

[mossy dune]

90% sure dagath's lore just comes from dagath's hollow in the dojo chief

[lean garden]

they have as much authority as you and me

[lean garden]

100% of the lore really, because the exerpt is attempting to summarise Grandmother's tale

[mossy dune]

right and grandmother's tale isn't written by us but by the devs which makes it lore no?

[lean garden]

pause. "still believing herself to be dax" isnt actually in the transcript

its an add-on by the wiki's page editor

[mossy dune]

where are you getting the transcript from?

[lean garden]

its in the same page youre in, click the big light blue bar

[mossy dune]

okay

[lean garden]

so in the context of Grandmother's tale we must understand several things:

1. This is Grandmother telling a horror story
2. Grandmother could very well be describing a frame that got lobotomised so hard it reversed "lobotomy"
3. Grandmother also casts aspersions on the story by revealing that a Warframe took her name, freely given, like that as if it were binding (it shouldnt be in reality, but this is a horror story)

[mossy dune]

I doubt I need to tell you what faceless thing clambered jerkily from the facility's waste disposal heap, in the still of a Naberus night. How she sought for her Dax Nikana, and found only the overseer's whip-blade. Confused, vacant, she wandered. Why was she alone? Where was her loyal Rakhali? She reached deep into despair and memory, and summoned up a ghost-horse to run alongside her on the night winds.

[lean garden]

Because of these things, the historical accuracy of Grandmother's tale is cast into doubt, especially the deeper she dives into the supernatural aspect of the story

[mossy dune]

the existence of the warframe proves it's more than just a story though

[lean garden]

Re: Grandmother is telling a horror storu

[lean garden]

Of course, but is it an entirely true story?

If we turn to the leverians, we know that inherently every story in there must carry an element of untruth, because Drusus does not know about the Tenno-frame link, and as such does not distinguish the warframes from their pilots (Dante's fault)

[mossy dune]

'I have no face,' the figure before me seemed to say, in a **whispering voice that spoke in my mind. **'I have no name. Only a need. And you come before me empty-handed this Naberus night?
seems at least like what stalker does

[lean garden]

Stalker can yap tho

[mossy dune]

he can form the simplest of sentences

[lean garden]

its not in the head, its out loud

[mossy dune]

but then you're working against eleanor , aren't we?

sure , it's a different warframe.

[lean garden]

You mean the one who has the warframe abilities that allow mind reading?

[mossy dune]

control , not reading

nyx as a warframe controls

[lean garden]

its a specific warframe that has those powers

which means its not a directly applicable thing to stalker

[mossy dune]

see this argument would be completely logical if we ignored the helminth

which takes warframe abilities and swaps them around

guess what warframes come from?

" but it;s 1 ability " that's gameplay

[lean garden]

see, this argument remains to be logical, because youre assuming that stalker was given mind [insert word] powers despite not 1) having any 2) needing any

[mossy dune]

but he doesn't need to be given them? the helminth strain is still a dna mutation
which means traces may linger and as genes go , can mutate and remain recessive

[lean garden]

the critical assumption you are making, rather unfoundedly, is that you can manage to mutate your way from one strain to another without external influence

The difference between whatever strain made stalker, and whatever made Nyx isnt just one or two alleles flipped around

[mossy dune]

who said there was no external influence? this whole argument is " if it's not stated it didn't happen " there's no lore stating helminth didn't rebel against the orokin like kullervo or ordan karris

[mossy dune]

see this makes sense when you remember that he's an excalibur clone , but he's not quite 1:1
and excalibur and nyx were some of the first warframes to come around

[lean garden]

Excalibur yes, nyx remains unknown

What youre drawing on is IRL warframe trivia, not the in-universe lore

[mossy dune]

yeah probably fair enough

[lean garden]

But also,
Stalker doesnt need to have mind powers, because he doesnt seem to have any mind powers. There's hardly any scenario where we cant point to and go "yea he just said it with his mucked up mouth".

[mossy dune]

Does his mouth move? I don't remember seeing it move

[lean garden]

Do you remember seeing umbra's mouth move when he awooos?

Rodney are you okay

[mossy dune]

weren't you the one who made the argument that umbra's unique

[lean garden]

Not in that sense

[mossy dune]

I mean in his cracked helmet his face is still there

[lean garden]

like his uniqueness lies in his torture method of autonimity, not in how his body was made

like thats why we had all those funky excerpts from the Virtruvian

detailing the warframe creation process

A key takeaway of The Sacrifice, is that warframes were all made like that, out of a human (and then later replicated 1:1 by space 3D printer)

Umbra's whole torture bit is not being rendered inert, like for example how Dagath was before taking a laser to the face, like he should have been with his generation of Tenno-frames

[mossy dune]

still not sure how warframe abilities work to be fully honest because I can't see a zombie being able to set itself on fire but I don't think they use the void either

[lean garden]

Orokin Bio-engineering + tech augments make room for magical things

[mossy dune]

it just works , got it

https://tenor.com/view/todd-howard-it-just-works-bethesda-this-all-just-works-gif-20598651

[mossy dune]

wasn't mirage also not inert? Iirc she was laughing while being transformed

[lean garden]

yea while being transformed

we dont really hear much about what happens after the process finished

Mirage Prime Trailer's Warframification Experience is lovingly affirmed when the Hex tell us about how they were transformed

[mossy dune]

i know ballas hated her but I can't remember if it was because she was still laughing as a warframe or if it seemed like she was

[lean garden]

Oh, how you suffered to become this beast. Yet you laughed at me. Others writhed and raged in the vice, but you, you played the fool. And so it was, that you distorted my design.

A sanguine trick. A murderous comedy. But no one is laughing anymore... except you.

The mere vapors of your life, shimmering still. Mirage.
She stuck it to the man by twisting his design, sadly he stuck with it

Keep in mind, that the last "But no one is laughing anymore... except you." is more than likely Ballas referring to her harlequinn design, not that she's still laughing

[candid elm]

Why did the sentients try to kill us? Aren't we on the same side? Against the orokin

I mean sure we killed a lot in the old war but it's not like we had a choice in the matter

[lean garden]

Because we were never actually on the same side for the duration of the entirety of the Old War

after Sentient "defeat" is when we actually killed the Orokin

by then the Old War was over and we ushered in the collapse of the Orokin Empire

[devout verge]

There is also the part where (brainwashing or not) Lotus gaining control over the Tenno and using them to kill the Orokin was in fact part of the sentient plan. Like, literally the only question Huntow has for her when he shows up is why she didn't finish her job by killing the Tenno, too.

From the Sentient side, it's not "we're on the same side", it's "we managed to get the organics to kill each other".

[orchid spear]

in the banshee prime trailer, Ballas mentions flockminds as part of the creation of the grineer, along with the gene molds, what does everyone think that might entail? after a quick google it seems most uses of flockmind position it as some kind of dsitributed ai, but im not sure how that is relevant, unless the orokin era grineer had their minds copied/downloaded somehow?

[restive river]

My guess is it could relate to the loyalty gene and installing certain things into their mind, like training

[hasty stirrup]

Sound like this is how they band together, calling eachother brothers, probably it's how the base bahavior of the grineer was placed into them.
The Gene Molds were for each of the soldier tipes, like Kahls.

[orchid spear]

thats possible but my understanding was that this aspect came about after they joined with the queens

"alike but not brothers" as the kuria poem goes

cavilero also comments on how the grineer brotherhood thing is a post-orokin era thing

[orchid spear]

actually that reminds me of affinity orbs and how i dont think they ever explained what they are? i always figured they were something like this, memory downloads or something, for training purposes

[restive river]

Those might be a purely gameplay thing ngl
More a gameplay representation of experience mayhaps

Like some stuff has in-universe explanations but not everything can/has to

[normal mountain]

Could be like those Void memory thingies Lotus mentions in Hidden Messages

[orchid spear]

ah, i really should replay quests more often

[restive river]

I’ve been getting the itch to replay ngl

I’m torn between trying my hand at a sister ephemera or replaying quests

[hidden cove]

Only the Tenno can actually see Void energy right?

Like it's invisible to everyone else?

[chrome rivet]

So correct me if I'm wrong for these order of events:

• Zariman tried to void jump to Tau but it failed
• Zariman gets trapped in the Void instead, and all the adults went insane and killing anyone they could find
• The kids didn't but instead got void powers
• MC Operator made a deal with Wally to save the survivors of the Zariman
• The Zariman finally escapes the Void (how long?)
• The Orokin picked up the survivors and made them Tenno to pilot Warframes
• The Zariman dissappeared again??? Then comes back again and finally stays after the New War

[pallid spoke]

The kids got their powers from the deal with Wally.

[orchid spear]

do they ever mention if the other kids are aware of that? or is it just our operator, since they took the deal

[pallid spoke]

Good question... I've not seen anything that specifically implies the other Tenno were aware of the deal.

[frosty bronze]

Hombask sometimes mentions other children in her vendor dialogue:
"I wish all the kids had turned out as sweet as you. Some of them though, they missed the dark times. I could tell tales if I had a mind to. Maybe when the time's right."
Source: https://wiki.warframe.com/w/Hombask/Quotes

[restive river]

The tenno got void powers from making the deal with Wally
We don’t know how long the Tenno were in there but long enough they killed all the adults
Margulis took in the Tenno and eventually discovered transference, see the Rhino Prime codex entry

The Zariman has disappeared and reappeared multiple times, the last and final time is at the start of Angels thanks to Kira.

[tall echo]

Marge didn't discover transference

[restive river]

Did she not?

I mean I know she utilized it for the tenno’s therapy and the orokin wanted to use it so the tenno could pilot the failure that was the warframe project

[tall echo]

Nah, a random researcher did after leading pre-rhino to the then still in cold storage tenno

[restive river]

Was it not her and Sylvana that figured out how normal people could use it?

Since the tenno have innate transference but anyone can do it with somatics (and presumably a bolt)

[tall echo]

That takes place after the tenno were taken out of storage afaik

[restive river]

I kinda wish we got to see the therapy golems

Like its small but still

[chrome rivet]

Why Kira?

What did she do?

[restive river]

I don’t recall exactly what she did but iirc it involved the albrecht membrane?
I think it was mostly in the arg ngl

I’ll see what specifics I can find

“Shortly after the Operator and Drifter reunited on the Zariman, Kira attempted to salvage data from the ship's computers and archives, which were on the verge of total corruption95. She worked to establish a bridge or tunnel through the Albrecht Membrane that separated the Void from real-space, to facilitate communication with the Tenno and enlist their help decrypting the Zariman files96. However, the memories that were unearthed in the Zariman data archives affected Kira greatly, weakening her resolve and transforming her into a Void Angel97. The Zariman subsequently appeared again on the outskirts of the Origin System, seemingly for good this time. The Zariman's sudden emergence may have been triggered by Kira's meddling with the Albrecht Membrane, or may have been a delayed result of the Man in the Wall's actions during Ballas' death98.”

https://www.orokinarchives.com/discussion-zariman/

@chrome rivet

This is from the discussion but it has sources to every piece of it

[tall echo]

Ballas' death in '98

[restive river]

That’s there cause I didnt bother to delete the lil source links :p

[tall echo]

Nah it's now official, ballas died in '98

[chrome rivet]

Wait.

So Kira was still around while we were doing the quest Angels pf Zariman?

[tall echo]

'98 of what? Who knows

[tall echo]

She's presumably the angel we see unroot at the start

[pallid spoke]

She is the Angel we see at the start, Quinn says so when we first meet the Holdfasts.

[tall echo]

Ye I wasn't sure, been so long

[chrome rivet]

Dang

Wish we could have save her. She sounded sweet

[tall echo]

Well, at least we managed to save cavalero the holdfasts

All of 'em

Yep

I definitely do not prefer cavalero over the others

[pallid spoke]

I mean, Kira was one of the Holdfasts so, can't really say we saved all of them.

But then again, it was already too late for her by the time we even showed up.

[tall echo]

All the holdfasts that were left

In a way we do save kira don't we

[pallid spoke]

If killing Void Angel Kira counts as saving her, then I guess.

I'm too tired to be having lore discussions, I need to go to bed before I go completely off the rails.

[viscid aspen]

I hope one day they elaborate on the Tenno-aligned faction thats in charge of the Relays and stuff. Ik they're there bc "Lotus" was a faction in the beginning, but how cool would it be to actually have a syndicate about them? Call it Lotus Petals or something. Have a pen full of the Kubrows and Kavats the Tenno have consigned and the person in charge is that syndicate's animal wrangler just like Son in Deimos. Idk theres some cool lore/story potential there

[dreamy ruin]

im ngl im still confused about when erra turned into pazuul? I feel like it just kinda happened

like after new war hes just pazuul for some reason

who tf is that

[viscid aspen]

Maybe it can be a sort of baby tenno hub where higher leveled tenno can contribute to make their ealry game easier, guide them after their awakening just like Lotus guided us

[sly ibex]

I don't think the relay folks are tied to a Lotus faction. That being a concept was from the closed beta days, and was already done away with before Relays came into the picture.

[sly ibex]

It happened after he got crushed by the burning debris and Lotus best Ballas.

[viscid aspen]

It did just kinda happened, it was offscreen

[dreamy ruin]

dang they pulled a Gege on us I guess

thanks

[viscid aspen]

They all have the Lotus symbol on their heads so they do have some sort of affiliation to space mama. I just think it'd be neat to expand on that and also pay tribute to the early days

[sly ibex]

I think that might be more tied to the Cryopod defense targets, since they also have the Lotus symbol. If I remember correctly, they look almost identical.

[fresh wigeon]

Where you go I go

[dreamy ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/pass-the-lore-lore-nav-xo-taytay-gif-25554546

[burnt light]

Warframe lore confuses me sometimes

[lean garden]

Which part

[burnt light]

Unsure, think even if I know the lore it still confuses me

[sage comet]

perhaps its better you start from the beginning

[burnt light]

Probably just some minor things

[sage comet]

I mean, usually people get confused because they just skip the first part of the lore

[burnt light]

Think it’s been a while so some of the lore I forgotten

[blissful merlin]

Is there like…any really specific lore that you’re confused on? Maybe we could help!

[rigid schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/playboi-carti-playboi-carti-dancecarti-gif-1369910845517190782

[blissful merlin]

Peak warframe lore tbh

[mint laurel]

I am tripping or the Operator is becoming a space Jesus? Basically, after taking Umbra's pain, Wally mocks us asking if we killed Isaah and the Operator answers a guilt "yes", and then there's the WitW scene of cutting off the transference of Wally on the Vessel with compassion, is like the Operator has the capacity to take people' sins away and heal them from their pain in a spiritual level like Jesus saving and forgiving people from their sins

[sage comet]

ngl, how you put is almost like:
Operator = Jesus
Wally = Anti-christ

[mint laurel]

There's a quote that fits with Wally creation by Albrecht, let me search it

[sage comet]

Is it the "If I must be a demon, let me be an honest one, and let me prove to you my nature through my actions"?

[mint laurel]

I think the devil doesn't exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness.
— Fyodor Dostoevsky

That quote fits with Wally cuz he was born from Albrecht mind and thoughts escaping like smoke from his head

[sage comet]

but wasn't it the void who took that thought and made it into reality?

actually Albrecht still remains the creater then since its an thought taken from him by the void

[lean garden]

uuuuuuuuuuh, while yes, operator is capable of exercising empathy and compassion in significantly wilder ways than normal, theyre most definitely not taking sins away

like theres a funky whole backdrop of theology that isnt present for the operator to do just that

[sweet wadi]

So the names on the star map are often based on mythological or historical figures, so it’s safe to assume that this timeline had an Ancient Greece and Rome, right?

Like if we have planets named after Roman gods, we probably had a Rome at some point.

[lean garden]

Or some version of them yes

[stray herald]

Where did the name kuva come from?

[lean garden]

made up by DE for warframe

[sweet wadi]

So where and when does dualism come in? The hex are casually familiar with it enough, and Viktor invokes Lua enough, for me to guess that it has replaced Christianity as the dominant European religion. (I am assuming Höllvania is in Europe, correct me if I’m wrong there).

But we also have frame names like ‘Trinity’, and Harrow making a Hellsing-Ultimate gun-cross in his idle animations.

[lean garden]

oh that? we can track it to the irl dualism nonsense, which is about ancient greek times

wasnt so much a religion but rather a philosophy

and no, I dont mean philosophy like how buddhism can be a philosophy

[sweet wadi]

It’s taken on a more religious bent in this timeline though. Presumably as an evolution of sun/moon worship, given the Sol and Lua focus

[lean garden]

oh yea sure, but if you want to track its origins its going to be ancient greek rooted

thems some plato aristotle stuff

[sweet wadi]

That tracks tbh, given how much of the culture and setting draws from Greek and Japanese styles/mythology.

I wonder if other older religions are more active in 1999, similar to how Lettie speaks of Aztec gods.

[stray herald]

Mictlan n shi

[sweet wadi]

Side note, give us an Aztec Garuda skin DE

[stray herald]

Also her rat has an aztec god name