lore-discussion

[charred patio]

the only reason I can think of if its ballas
is that he made a prime version, simply to spite her
which means

• it would focus more on ballas' sadistic tendency than jade
• just generally feel... distasteful to jade' story, imo

[lean garden]

which shouldnt be an issue since Jade prime would likely have been made during the orokin era

[charred patio]

damn you ballas

[lean garden]

Indeed

[charred patio]

cant we have another xaku prime situation?
like, the other factions finally discover the baby existence and are coming for it
so stalker/hunhow create jade prime and gift to the tenno, and ask for their help

"I entrust the jade light to you, to help me protect my child"
something like that

imagine
the trailer mostly show the stalker fending off attackers
with glimpses of jade prime providing support
and it end with stalker standing in triumph, and jade prime slowly descend behind him, like an angel

[scenic fossil]

Another? What was his situation even

[scenic fossil]

Like his poster

[charred patio]

precisely

[lean garden]

cant we have another xaku prime situation?
So... likely made during the orokin era?

[charred patio]

oh, I thought entrati family only made xaku prime recently
so, lavos prime I guess?

[scenic fossil]

Nah, she pulls right from the Sun

[charred patio]

basically, I was thinking that jade prime will be made post Jade Shadow

[scenic fossil]

To jade light Parvos

[lean garden]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh, definitely not lavos prime sitch since he primed himself

and we just saw the OG jade so

[charred patio]

I mean, prime can either be the original version, or the upgraded version, or something else, right?

[lean garden]

yes, but in the case of lavos the goober turned his base self to his prime self because alchemy

an extremely rare exception

[charred patio]

bro self evolved like a pokemon XD

[feral cape]

There's nothing really preventing the priming of jade she's an old war frame made by ballas just cover her in gold

[devout verge]

Xaku is the result of a bunch of dead Warframes getting lost in the Void, and their broken pieces getting fused by sheer accident and Void nonsense into a new Warframe.

Then that accident and Void nonsense got a prime, which was, as far as I can tell, never really explained, besides "well, it exists now."

[feral cape]

It doesn't need special explanation xaku is an old war frame cover it in gold

The only frame with lore that demanded special explanation was revenant because he's not an old war frame

[scenic fossil]

the guy just came from another dimension to piss off Ballas

[devout verge]

Caliban would probably also need something of an explanation, considering that he was build by Erra between the wars.

But then, that explanation might be "Ballas hung out with Erra all along", considering that he gets introduced into the plot already with Sentients at his side.

[charred patio]

how I see if, we have at least two ways to go about this

first option is the usual option, with ballas making the prime and do the narration
which, imo, would highlight ballas' inhumane nature more than jade prime, considering her story

or, like I said above, her prime was made by someone else, at a different time
like, maybe stalker and/or hunhow made the prime post Jade Shadow
and they would also be the one to do the narration
to me, that would emphasize not just the prime, but also jade in general
like, this can be her legacy in the story

[feral cape]

Calibans alt helm states he was present for the old war

[devout verge]

Oh, I misunderstood "consigned".
Erra threw caliban away after the old war, he didn't create him after the war.

[graceful swan]

Yeah, all Warframes were made in the Old War

[proper barn]

As far as we know.

[digital grail]

Jade's kid technically isn't but yeah

But he was born

[restive river]

Technically the kid was in there, it just took 1k+ years for them to form and be birthed

[graceful swan]

Plus there's this line (greeting the Tenno) "Whatever the Stalker and Jade have brought forth, it will be no ordinary child! Ordis wonders whether he will ever encounter an 'ordinary child'."

We don't even know if they will become a frame

They might not even age to be able to become a frame

[restive river]

We dub them a warframe baby cause technically they sorta are

Half human half helminth
Likely void powered
But they may be truly like nothing we’ve seen before

Perhaps a Warframe that doesn’t need intense emotional issues to just exist without going feral

[graceful swan]

Nephilim

Half human half Void powered

Actually wouldn't that make all Warframes Nephilims?

[restive river]

Wouldn’t that sorta make the tenno Nephilims?
Or??
Cause the Tenno are human
But have a piece of a void entire that powers them

[digital grail]

They better age

[graceful swan]

Rell went into his frame because he was afraid of ageing so I'd say if they're a frame they won't

[digital grail]

They're a born Warframe it might be different for them

It might age to a point age faster or not at all

If it didn't age it'd be a waste

[graceful swan]

It definitely won't be an ordinary child that's all we know

[digital grail]

Exactly so it might age we dunno

[graceful swan]

DE rarely age up characters

Teshin being the only example of visible ageing

Rell we didn't even see visible ageing

[digital grail]

Them keeping it as a baby would be boring and stalker would be stuck witha baby for ages

Let me dream though tbh

The kid has potential it staying as a baby would feel wasted to me but idk

I hope it ages but it is what it is

[stray herald]

what is the current status of nef anyo

[graceful swan]

Sad son

[stray herald]

what about in his position in the corpus

[graceful swan]

After the War the factions would've took their places again unless you saw the character die on screen

[stray herald]

what

[golden matrix]

Questions.

1. How much accurate is the summarization of this video (from 2:00 - 12:00 mark) to the lore?

2. I got pretty confused on the part of why did the tennos still work for the Orokin after Margulis' execution.
   Did the Tennos not know about it and only learned about her death later that leads to the fall of the Orokin empire?

https://youtu.be/b6grs9yodcw?si=Wv6RdA7Xnwgeg2k_

[graceful swan]

The Orokin killed her so they could use us as weapons without her permission we did know about her being killed

[golden matrix]

At what moment in the story did we (the tenno) learn about Marguli's death?

Is it after the introduction of Natah (shapeshifted as Lotus) in the Empire?

[silk atlas]

The part where everything is getting against the Orokin is slightly wrong, the Grineer only became a problem after the fall, and not much is known about the relation between the Corpus and Orokin at the time. Everything else is pretty spot on for a very abridged sparknotes version of the lore.

[graceful swan]

Either then or sometime during her death via her singing to us

Lotus reminds us of it happening in the Second Dream

[proper barn]

Cuz they had to? Also they only started being in warframes then.

Also some did rebel they all did later.

[candid elm]

Stupid silly idea but what If oull is a filler word like "uh" "hmm" and whatnot

[lilac aspen]

Warframes are merely physical flesh vessels for our Void Demon Children

Stalker and Jade's child is most likely just
A flesh vessel that was born rather than made

[restive river]

You know what frames are made of, yes?

[lilac aspen]

Yeah
Helminth strain Infested people

[undone sundial]

Love 🙂

[lilac aspen]

Our Hopes and Dreams

[woven coyote]

Crushed and sprinkled on every single one

[north jolt]

Ngl I feel like its going to have some severe emotional issues no matter what, assuming it grows up :p
"So yeah, your mother was turned into a infested war machine and died giving birth to you"

Baby warframe > " . _. "

[north jolt]

The tenno probably weren't happy about it, but also probably didn't want to immediately act on it and lash out without some kind of actual plan to bring down the Orokin. Plus I think it was the Lotus? who was kinda the devil on their shoulders whispering to their ears until the time to strike was right. So most likely they were just biding their time

Though for me personally a bigger question is why they didn't stick around after going through the trouble of taking down a whole empire? Least to me it would make sense to stick around at least for a little bit to help stabilize things and then go to sleep once some semblance of stability is reached

[glacial bough]

Because the Lotus called for it

[north jolt]

Dang, mom making us go to bed when we could of been cool rulers and sh*t

[woven coyote]

Wasnt there one or two leverians that point to us being active during the colapse?

So it wasnt an immediate
Orokin are dead, guess its time to sleep

[restive river]

I mean yeah :p
“both your mom and dad got turned into warcrimes because you existed”

[north jolt]

Tbh I don't recall, but Yareli's comic is about her fighting grineer child slave owners, does it take place post-collapse?

[woven coyote]

Was that guy grineer? Pretty sure he was just ugly

[humble sierra]

Vulgran doesn't have a Wiki page

There's no mention of his 'race' in the transcript
https://wiki.warframe.com/w/The_Waverider/Transcript

[north jolt]

is ugly
owns slaves

Close enough

[woven coyote]

Was that one archwing skin we got from baro his? I think it had a description

[lean garden]

Yeap

[glacial bough]

That was the exo-sacs from Grendel Leverian

[lean garden]

Whoops

[lament stirrup]

Vulgran mentions "idleness", implying he's Corpus. Presumably after Granum went missing since slavery seems to be one of the few ethical lines Granum won't cross.

[proper barn]

What do you mean? He puts his brother in slavery.

Zaisher

[lament stirrup]

He did?

[proper barn]

In his tenets

He has his brother in chains beside him lmao.

[lament stirrup]

Oh. Uh.
Whoops

[proper barn]

ZAISHER

Also He literally says to do loan sharking lmao.

[north ferry]

Granum will cross any line for money.

[devout verge]

One big reason why the Tenno didn't immediately turn on the Orokin was that they were already in the middle of a war.
Fighting the Sentients was hard enough, fighting them while the Orokin empire collapsed all around them? No thank you.

The moment the war was over? They explicit made the victory celebration the start of their rebellion.

[north ferry]

Also, the step between motive and motivation is also a thing.

[lament stirrup]

Given that the Tenno were comprised entirely of scared teenagers and insane adults turned into warframes, I'm pretty sure it took the Lotus organizing them for rebellion to become a widespread idea.

[slow phoenix]

If the opening cinematic was (mostly) canon, then the tenno fought the dax and grineer after the collapse for a bit before going into cryo (the grineer weren't the grineer then, but they were the same clone race)

[tall elm]

afaik they were always grineer

they just werent independant from the orokin

[proper barn]

Also not all the Orokin where dead but the collapse started.

[proper barn]

During but yeah there's a reason there are only 2 Dax left.

[tall echo]

Well, 2.5

[digital grail]

Umbra?

[tall echo]

Yes

[digital grail]

Ah

Wouldn't teshin kinda not count because he's in another dimension

Or whatever

[vocal cloak]

Question: Have we confirmed Umbra's identity? Seems a bit "young" for Arthur given we use Kuva to make them and they have connection to the Dax.

Been awhile since I played that particular quest so I don't actually remember much.

[digital grail]

We know they where a dax a respected one at that and had a kid they definitely aren't arthur

He snooped and learned to much

[vocal cloak]

So effectively we have "some guy" who was an especially strong willed personality to explain the not going limp noodle?

[digital grail]

He didn't go blank because he was left with the memory of killing his son

[tall echo]

Him staying sentient was a design choice by ballas to torture him more

[digital grail]

I hope we do more with umbra maybe something to help stalker

[tall echo]

Umbra is done

[vocal cloak]

And here I thought I had reason enough to have killed Ballas. But alright, noted about the lore I forgot.

[digital grail]

Doesn't mean he can't be used more

[tall echo]

Ballas was a horrible... creature. Even by orokin standards

Not even worthy of being called a person

[graceful swan]

His story is told now he’s just like every other Warframe just with a feature many don’t like

There’s nothing else to tell in his story

[vocal cloak]

I mean there is the option of indirect time travel using Umbra as a model of preserved consciousness. But I'm not sure what The Hex would be up to in the effective present.

[tall echo]

[vocal cloak]

Umbra seems pretty much done unless he decides to co-parent with a recently widowed Stalker

[digital grail]

An umbra and stalker story would be nice

[graceful swan]

If DE wanted more Umbra they would’ve had a special interaction specifically for Umbra during New War

[lean garden]

Im not saying this is a you issue, but youre the second person I've seen today in the realm of the arthur-umbra

[tall echo]

"And they were roommates!"

[lean garden]

which is frankly a nonsensical notion, that arthur becomes umbra

what is going on

[digital grail]

https://tenor.com/view/they-were-roommates-ohmygod-ohmygod-they-were-roommates-gif-13171811792749378048

[digital grail]

They atleast mention him in js

[graceful swan]

Dunno why anyone would think Arthur is Umbra when Umbra was a thing before Arthur existed

[vocal cloak]

I mean there are very few frames that still retain their personality let alone ones that we interact with as well.

I also prefaced saying Arthur wouldn't make sense when I mentioned it.

[digital grail]

New players maybe idk to many excaliburs to keep track of

[graceful swan]

Would a new player even know 1999 is a thing past the login screen?

[tall echo]

Two.

[lean garden]

I mean there are very few frames that still retain their personality let alone ones that we interact with as well.
Sure, but thats not really any foundation for Arthurising Umbra
I also prefaced saying Arthur wouldn't make sense when I mentioned it.
Yes, which is why I've said its not a you issue, because youre not crackheading and pushing it, you've just mentioned it

[tall echo]

There are two story excals.

[lean garden]

the other fella I saw... phoooweee, he drank the kuva

[digital grail]

Yeah the skins are there pre 1999

[vocal cloak]

The first bit was to explain that if you aren't paying attention it's an easy mistake because of the loose connection. It's someone not aware of why it doesn't make sense.

If all you can remember about Umbra is that it's a human underneath like you and the only other frame you've seen that looks human is The Hex...You're gonna need to be reminded what your Warframes are.

It's a very silly mistake, but I can see how it would happen.

[lean garden]

perhaps, that would sadly require forgetting a large chunk of what happened in the Sacrifice

[vocal cloak]

I'd imagine that likely happens to a lot of veteran casual players more than it does baby Tenno or the more dedicated player base. The gaps of time between story missions will begin to have the details erode with time.

[steel hazel]

I don't think I'll ever forget playing komi in that hospital bed tbh

[raw stone]

Give. It. A. Rest.

Seriously. Pick up Warrior's Rest and let him sleep.

[graceful swan]

I gave it Warriors rest like 2 hours ago when we went onto Rell talk

Imagine just pulling out warriors rest in am argument with someone

[twin flax]

got a question, is cyte-09 based on Neon Genesis Evangelion...?

the neutralizer seems too similar and the name

[scenic fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/the-big-lebowski-jeff-bridges-jeffrey-lebowski-the-dude-stir-gif-23172125

[unborn token]

If the warframes we make are 3rd generation essentiali mindless puppets then why umbra was crafted as generation 1 warframe and is still "the original"?

[scenic fossil]

Because its umbra, 1 and only
Unic wf

This chat loves to get high...

[twin flax]

umbra is similar to eva01 ( the purple one )

[scenic fossil]

Like this

[tall echo]

Neutralize is a word. A gun that neutralizes would be a neutralizer.

[scenic fossil]

Oh and this one

Brainrot discussion strikes again!!!

[twin flax]

u watched the anime or nah

[tall echo]

No I only watch good shows

[unborn token]

I have not watched evenagelia no idea what that means.

[twin flax]

warframes are made from humans basically, umbra too

as u know

[vocal cloak]

Literally said I knew it wasn't Arthur. Please stop lumping me in.

[scenic fossil]

I swear ill mute this chat for good

[scenic fossil]

Your fault

[unborn token]

Yes but the ones we make in game are replicad without human sacrifice.

[vocal cloak]

For your poor reading comprehension?

[tall echo]

Fun

[scenic fossil]

For your insanity

[twin flax]

nvm im not even gonna try to talk, nobody watched it sooo

cya some time later

[vocal cloak]

What insanity? Are you high?

[graceful swan]

Because the memory was left purposely by Ballas

[unborn token]

Oh damn a cephalon! What did they glass you for?

[tall echo]

You in the wrong this time

[tall echo]

Chaos

[unborn token]

So its thanks to Umbra transference bolt. I see is like cloud storage or ender chest for memories?

[unborn token]

Nice

[lean garden]

Even the umbra we have now isnt directly made from humans

[graceful swan]

Foundry 3D printing

[vocal cloak]

More or less. You know how people talk about genetic memory in the real world? Think of it a bit more literally in this case. That's how Umbra maintains his identity through each iteration even if each one is technically unique.

[unborn token]

Damn so ballas essentiali made replicated trauma.

[tall echo]

All two iterations

[vocal cloak]

Still carbon copy multiples.

[unborn token]

How many more traumatized fathers do you need?

[tall echo]

42

[unborn token]

Are you implying that traumatized old men are meaning of life?

[tall echo]

Maybe

[graceful swan]

In Warframe definitely

[unborn token]

Scrap you are a visionary i respect.

[vocal cloak]

So far we have at least four presumably? I don't remember if Loid was in a relationship with Albrecht when raising his kids

Five if we count the mother-father combo of Natah

[unborn token]

Hunhow?

[vocal cloak]

Yes

[unborn token]

Hes more of a traumatized nonbinary grandpa tbh

[graceful swan]

Albrecht is definitely a traumatized old man

Loid just wants a hug he's not traumatized

[unborn token]

I think albrecht causes trauma.

[lean garden]

Not sure how someone can be NB and a grandpa

[unborn token]

Easy. Be a machine

[lean garden]

Machines arent necessarily NB, ask my good friend Data

https://tenor.com/view/commander-data-sarcasm-disappointment-irony-bemusement-gif-15774059439029003814

[graceful swan]

Causes it and is traumatized

[unborn token]

Trauma ²

[vocal cloak]

Hunhow is described as both a mother and father without seemingly transitioning between the two

So...enby grandpa

[lean garden]

Hunhow has never been described as mother, has only been described as father

let mpreg be real

[unborn token]

He did birth natah

[tall echo]

Seahonse

[graceful swan]

🫃

[vocal cloak]

Ding dong you are wrong. I'll be right back with quotes

[lean garden]

seahonse

[lean garden]

sure, if you find them

[unborn token]

Nah if you were talking about humans i agree. But sentients are above our understanding of gender

[graceful swan]

Is there a difference between a fragment and a daughter Sentient?

[lean garden]

... wuh?

Why would sentients suddenly be beyond our understanding of gender

theyre our creations

[unborn token]

Well did you see one naked?

[lean garden]

do I need to see one naked?

[tall echo]

They

[lean garden]

(answer is no, not even in humans)

[tall echo]

They don't wear clothes

[graceful swan]

Does that mean Lotus was Naked the whole time?

[tall echo]

They're machines how are machines supposed to have a gender

[unborn token]

Of course she was.

[lean garden]

because gender and dangly bits arent always aligned

case in point: my friend Data

[tall echo]

[lean garden]

https://tenor.com/view/commander-data-sarcasm-disappointment-irony-bemusement-gif-15774059439029003814

[lean garden]

who for a VERY long period in TNG had no dangly bits

not sure if they ever gave him one in the end

[vocal cloak]

I'm on mobile so I can't check the wiki efficiently right now. That being said for the time being at least I do seem to stand corrected. While it's said he has a womb, there wasn't any immediate quotes referring to Hunhow as a mother that I could find.

[lean garden]

While it's said he has a womb
-# mpreg

[tall echo]

Orokinarchives

[unborn token]

I dont believe in gender only in sex. Because honestly limiting ones personality by asigning ourselfs gender is pointless.

[lean garden]

are you using wiki.warframe.com or fandom?

[tall echo]

Natah explicitly calls hunhow her father though

[lean garden]

great for you, but uh, gender and sex are still two different things

[tall echo]

That is just a great sentence

[vocal cloak]

Whichever one pops up first for my searches since I'm on mobile admittedly. This time around it was fandom since one of their links had Hunhow quotes pop up first

[lean garden]

oof, the wiki is much more useable on mobile fyi, even if fandom pops up I run far from that cursed place

[vocal cloak]

Noted. Thank you.

[vocal cloak]

What this be what it do

[unborn token]

It archives orokin. Duh

[tall echo]

Lore

[lean garden]

its uh, what fandom wishes to be lol

[vocal cloak]

If it weren't for the laws of these lands I'd take a lesson from Oberon and smite you

[lean garden]

its focus is lore, so it diverges from the actual wiki, which includes all things warframe

[tall echo]

No that's what I do

[unborn token]

In this court knight and jester are equal.

[vocal cloak]

Anyways with respect to gender and sex Id like to remind people that sentients were built to be self-replicating machines. I doubt sex OR gender really plays much a factor in their lives beyond poetic expression of how they relate to one another.

So, yes, haha mpreg Hunhow but that's probably just Hunhow speaking poetically to indicate the intimacy and authority he feels towards Natah as her creator.

Like even pronouns is more for our sake than theirs. We understand Lotus/Margulis/Natah as a sort of mother figure so we refer to her as such with feminine pronouns.

[lean garden]

And hunhow acts like a grunkly old grandpa

"dagnabit them kids again"

[burnt light]

Think there was a time I thought the Operator was non binary until the character creator when you can kind of choose it

[tall echo]

Tbh drifter confirms that gender in the game-present is a nebulous concept at best

[lean garden]

no time to be debating pronouns when you gotta avoid getting stomped on by a golden boot

[vocal cloak]

...Does the operator ever get referred to with gendered language? I genuinely don't know because I've never paid attention. I just sorta made mine a guy and appreciated that I could make them seem more androgynous or feminine if I chose the appropriate cosmetic options

[tall echo]

Indeed

[tall echo]

No

[lean garden]

deliberately no for character customs methinks

[lean garden]

tbf the sentients on multiple occasions in direct communication to each other use gendered familial terms so

such as:

[vocal cloak]

Still think that's more of a vibe thing than a reality thing. For a real life example I'm non-binary but I'm still tio or uncle just because those are the words we have available in my family's languages.

[lean garden]

Natah (Quest)

Sentient: "My own daughter. The last of my womb. How can you do this?"
Sentient: Finish the sequence and I will forgive you. Fail at this and you will be reclaimed by your own father."
Erra (Quest)
No... sister. It's me. Erra-- The Makers caught you. Unravelled your mind. They're using you to kill us! 'The Queen of the Aphids' with her Eye in the Void. But I don't blame you... I blame... them! You believe these are your children... But I'm the only family you've got left! So choose! Our family, our people... or these parasites. Choose Natah! Choose!"

[feral cape]

Also they posses self replication and 2 man tango reproduction so do with that as you will

Self replication likely just results in lysts whilst the 2 man tango results in an independent sentient mind

[vocal cloak]

Now I just want to know whether it actually is poetic or not. Not because it matters but because it's a question that has caught my curiosity. Clearly they're either hermaphroditic or unsexed and I don't see why gender would matter to them beyond communicating to other cultures. But by quoted lore it would imply that they abide by at minimum gender conventions and identity despite that.

[graceful swan]

Even certain official wiki pages don't want to work on my phone

[burnt light]

Maybe they never thought on the whole gender thing that much or deeply

[lean garden]

mmmmmmmmmm, perchance, we are getting hints that Tau culture seems oddly mayan

[vocal cloak]

Probably not. But it does have interesting implications about how to interpret their communications depending on whether they have a gender identity or are just using it as expressions.

A father who sees themselves as having birthed a child is very different from someone expressing a more vague authority over their creation.

[sweet wadi]

It’s made more confusing by Natah having a ‘mother’ as well.

And the archons indicate that Sentients also just kind of… made new ones as art pieces almost? Giving them animalistic features as ‘tributes’ to old world mythology.

Maybe it’s like a donor thing? Similar to Eidolons but more deliberate, the Sentients ‘split’ and give consciousness to a fragment of themselves.

Making Hunhow as close to a progenitor as a synthetic being can get.

[spice spade]

Hello Japan, I am

[mild compass]

if sentients are self-replicating why did natah mention both a father and mother in ropalolyst thing

also i hate that massive screen so much

[lament stirrup]

Its possible Natah was born from one parent and raised by two? Or Praghasa might have provided the materials for Hunhow's "womb", given that recycling enemy ships was her MO.

[pallid spoke]

That's what I assumed, we know that Sentients reproduce asexually, so that means Praghasa is Natah's mother in the sense that she created Hunhow, who in turn created Natah.

[lament stirrup]

Well, sentient fighters are made asexually. We dont know how unique sentients are made beyond it involving a "manifold"

Its also possible Praghasa is just Natahs step mother and Sentients dont see the point in making a distinction between birthed and adopted children. They're robots, after all.

[pallid spoke]

I just assumed the "manifold" is whatever pool of black goop stuff is on the Murex's. Considering that we can watch Sentient units spawn from it.

[lament stirrup]

In an engineering context, the word manifold refers to a fluid congregator. So theres a legitimate possibility that it is the goo pools.

[sweet wadi]

So they’re 3-d printed, is what I’m hearing.

Or, you know, the concept of sentient ‘children’ is a broken one because the lore of Natah and Sentients has been retconned several times.

Remember when The Lotus was an organization?

[glacial bough]

When was it ever

[sweet wadi]

Early on it was, young child

You were told ‘The Lotus will be pleased’ by what came to be Lotus. They were initially a shadowy clan or society dedicated to helping Tenno.

rescue missions were for Lotus operatives, for example. It was completely retconned and given new voice lines after they made it a single person.

Originally, the voice in our ear was just our handler, basically.

[lament stirrup]

I dont think they retconned anything anymore after making the Lotus and individual and a sentient?

At least, they didnt retcon anything involving her.

[glacial bough]

I'd hesitate to even call that a retcon, but it's up in the air

[restive river]

Isn’t that more a remnant of the old prototype and darksector?

[sweet wadi]

It’s also a personal gripe on my part, but everything from Sacrifice to New War twists and recontextualizes so often that I struggle to believe it was all ironed out from the start.

[restive river]

I doubt it was tbh

Like some aspects were but not everything

A story grows and evolves

[lament stirrup]

A story revealing new information isn't the same thing as a retcon.

[restive river]

^

[sweet wadi]

I get that but the number of times the entire context changes becomes a little gratuitous.

We go from Natah loving the Tenno as her own, to being brainwashed. Ballas becomes the architect behind the sentient invasion after being shown chained up as a pet. Hunhow becomes an ally despite being built up in Octavia’s Anthem as the face of the Sentients.

I’m not saying they are retcons, I am saying the writing changed direction and focus several times mid-story.

[lament stirrup]

While you're partially right about the Hunhow thing, the framing of the scenes makes it fairly clear Ballas was faking being a prisoner to fool Natah the whole time.
Also Lotus/ Natah going from loving the tenno to being brainwashed isn't a retcon, thats just what the progression of events was?

[sweet wadi]

I… I literally just said they aren’t retcons.

[lament stirrup]

I'm bad at reading.

[sweet wadi]

Fair. Evidently I’m bad at watching.

[restive river]

If you look at everything about Duviri it changed so so much
Things def change and evolve as time goes on

Like I want to see the internals on how Duviri evolved since it seems like one of the updates that changed the most over time

Almost feels like they nailed the visuals and went from there, I like what they ultimately landed on but it’s interesting to see how different it could have been

Like what would the story have been if Duviri was composed of terraformed islands rather than conceptually embodied ones? What would that mean for the duvirians? The drifter? Thrax?
I mean Duviri was planned to be in Jupiter at one point if I’m not mistaken!

[lament stirrup]

Oh yeah, the trailer also implied Thrax was going to invade the Origin system. And then he never so much as leaves his palace.

[sweet wadi]

And yet it still feels unfinished at times in terms of substance. It’s aching to be an open world, with all the side content, but feels held back by being mission based.

Also I’m still salty that the promotional material very clearly showed warframes riding Kaithe and only let us do it in the other open world areas.

[olive comet]

could someone explain this and its importance to anything?

[glacial bough]

Personal RP

[lament stirrup]

Its your charactwrs alignmwnt to sun and moon and it effects literally nothing.

[sweet wadi]

Another abandoned aspect, originally meant to decide which void discipline you have.

[lament stirrup]

Its not good/evil insomuch as its passion vs stoicism.

[glacial bough]

It definitely was not

[olive comet]

so like jedi and sith

[glacial bough]

Steve was clear about it, the meter was not meant to have any gameplay impact

[restive river]

Not abandoned lol

[olive comet]

well I like the colour black so imma just go with the option that gives me that ig

[sweet wadi]

Nevermind I guess

[lament stirrup]

Star wars also portrays that as good vs evil
Yeah. Sun is passion and action while moon is stoicism and passivity.
It doesnt affect your characters actions, just their implied personality.

[glacial bough]

Definitely not, Sith are very much straight evil

[restive river]

The way I view it it’s more emotional vs logic with the balance being a balance between them

[olive comet]

youve got strong opinions

[lament stirrup]

Sun has one of the most overtly malicious lines in the game.
Mind you, its directed at Ballas, so-

[glacial bough]

Or I suppose, it's not like that because Sith aren't meant to exist as a dichotomy like that

[olive comet]

I mean people turning sith usually stem from passion and a desire for action and change

while jedis value passivity and stoicism

[restive river]

Yeah but they’re kinda always shown as evil :p

[olive comet]

yeah because starwars writers cant write nuance

[restive river]

Like the Jedi are arguably more grey since they sometimes won’t do anything
But the sith just hurt people lmao

Anyway
Warframe

[lament stirrup]

While from an in universe perspective thats true, from an out of universe perspective the sith are red and black guys that everyone hates.

[glacial bough]

I mean, that aren't meant to be nuanced like that

[olive comet]

that would get rid of the drifters (definitely not anakin) entire point of turning to lua

if he was just supposed to be a bad lua lover who uses the void for bad

[lament stirrup]

What

[restive river]

What

[olive comet]

im talking about warframe and definitely not star wars

[lament stirrup]

I dont understand this analogy.

[restive river]

[olive comet]

lmao I was just replacing star wars terms with warframe ones

but if they werent supposed to be nuanced, then characters like Vader wouldnt exist

the purple kyber crystal wouldnt either

theres potential, its just never used

[lament stirrup]

I mean. Going from "my wife is dead I must kill children" to "my son is forgives me I must kill the emperor" isnt very. Nuanced.

[olive comet]

but I was mostly just wondering if there was any deeper meaning besides preffering black or white in a the corner of your profile

[olive comet]

clone wars did him justice the movies never would

[glacial bough]

That's nuance as characters. The Sith aren't overall

[lament stirrup]

Star Wars peripheral media has writing that's leagues better than the movies. Its baffling sometimes.

[olive comet]

the motivations for turning are always half decent, and then post turn is always so buns when it comes to star wars

[olive comet]

the sith are characters

you need character to even turn, no one is born evil or good

unless you write them that way, and thats just bad writing

[olive comet]

always, the depth found in even something like kenobi when it comes to vaders character is always superb

[olive comet]

but if not imma just go with my favourite colour lmfao

[restive river]

There is yes

[olive comet]

That's what I like about even warframes plot, it feels like the motivations and beliefs of the characters are consistent throughout the game

It isn't scrapped because they want a cool badguy moment

[lament stirrup]

Shout out to warframe for making "destroying a civilization because my wife left me" a reoccuring character trait.

[woven coyote]

anyone remember where the poem that explains it was? keep forgetting where to look for it

[glacial bough]

It's just on the website

[restive river]

Where?

Cause I’m having trouble finding it too

[glacial bough]

https://www.warframe.com/news/litany-of-the-dax

Thought it was Liturgy, not Litany

[feral cape]

I disagree

[olive comet]

Elaborate?

[feral cape]

Being inherently evil or inherently good does not mean a character is poorly written

[olive comet]

I more mean like "born evil and always evil" like if Palpatine was always Palpatine with no motivations

Typically people don't come out the zariman wanting to start a dictatorship

[distant maple]

I had a cool idea, one point, while we're playing 1999, all of a sudden, you get this transmission, from a strange, unknown voice

"if you have received this encrypted message, then it's already too late, Viktor's army was never about keeping the peace"

"It was about control"

Viktor ends up stealing and reverse engineering some of Entrati's tech, specifically, Nyx's mind control

and then, you see Viktor assuming direct control of his army, forming a kind of hive mind, as they have been infected by the Techrot via the Effervon tank, and his entire army now fights far more effectively

[tall echo]

...no.

1. Albrecht did not invent warframes
2. Warframe abilities aren't "tech"

[graceful swan]

Nyxs mind control isn’t tech

[distant maple]

fair points but, those aren't necessary to my idea, see, the crux of the idea is, currently, the Hex, and us, we whip them, Viktor ain't much, the best he can do, is stop us for like, three minutes with a ferrocite barricade, you know? he's no threat

my idea is that, you know, he becomes a threat, LOL

[feral cape]

I don't really think the characters motivation matter that much characters like aizen from bleach and mahito from jjk lack any real concrete motivation aizen simply hates the soul king because and mahito by his how admission kills humans simply because he's a curse and that's what curses do

Characters like the gardener from destiny are good simply because they are the gardener exists to be good to uplift and promote completely amongst civilizations and it does that simply because

[humble sierra]

Viktor's already a threat because he's incompetent and refuses to do the right thing which puts innocents at risk

[lilac aspen]

Man's already a massive threat with a tank that ended up being infected with Techrot.

That luckily we destroy.

Can you imagine if that tank transformed randomly in the streets and going on a rampage?

Viktor is doing exactly what the Orokin did with the Sentients at first

He's trying to fight the techrot with tech, which will only make them stronger inevitably. The only reason it hasn't infested everything Scaldra throws at it is because luckily most of that tech has Effervon in it too.

That is, until we see what happens with the tank.
Or the funny life support.

Thus

Massive threat as stated
He's very incompetent and stubborn towards listening

[north ferry]

Viktor isn't a threat to immortal warmachines for in the distant, distant future, unsurprisingly.
He's a threat because he has an army doing what he tells him to and no one is in a position to stop him doing horrible things and causing terrible consequences.

It's not about us, it never was about being a threat to thr Drifter. Drifter can just yoink back in time, they could've just left just instead chose to support the Hex for their sake and more distantly for the sake of the people in Hollevania.

[olive comet]

do they ever lie to the player? I am at a point where someone says "the history I know," but its the truth in wf lore

I have played games like cyberpunk where they actively lie to the person experiencing it, the creator has confirmed that "cyberpsychosis" isnt actually a real phenomenon, but even when hes being a dungeon master, he treats it as if it is.

because every person in the world accepts it as fact, or the truth was lost to history

does warframe ever use this tool to lie to the player?

[feral cape]

How is cyberpsychosis not a real phenomenon

[lean garden]

Well, because the conditions for cyberpsychosis dont exist yet. We just get regular psychosis

[feral cape]

Har har har

Saying cyberpsychosis isn't real gives the same vibes as when the mangaka for demon slayer said the effects from breathing styles don't actually exists

[north ferry]

I mean, not wrong.

[olive comet]

So basically it's just a scapegoat made up by corpos for actual mental psychosis, notice how smasher, David, and V don't get psychosis, because even though David and V go through crazy losses, it's immediately followed up by fun adventures and new friends.
And Smasher and Johnny are both just crazy, but not psychotic.

[olive comet]

The cyber part comes from it being an addiction, a way to cope with yoyr horrible mental. It's always pushed on NC residents that chrome will fix your problems

[stiff fable]

Small note, our arsenal in 1999 is technically copies made using 1999 materials

[feral cape]

Except David Martinez? The guy who started seeing genuine delusions and could not disingenuous reality from fantasy after equipping the skeleton

The skeleton made him significantly worse than he already was after chroming up

[olive comet]

yeah he was just actually losing it, notice all the trauma he went through and it just got worse

[olive comet]

and lucy was kidnapped

cyberware does have a tax on your body, but it wont cause cyberpsychosis, but if youre already losing it and you have this crazy illness (cyberware needs meds to maintain it, without it you put a tax on your body) its gonna skyrocket

[olive comet]

but they basically just blame cyberware, if youve played the game notice how all the cyberpsychos are going through the worst stuff like, ever. and theres barely any evidence of their chrome causing issues prior

[lean garden]

I'm doing a minor deep dive, but uh, can you show where mike says cyberpsychosis isnt real?

because being a scapegoat =/= not real

[feral cape]

Yea everything I'm seeing is basically just saying "well everything sucks so cyberpsychosis isn't actually real and people are just regular insane"

[north ferry]

Also, isn't it also a convenient cover for corpo screw ups, it's cybernetics in general not their unsafe augments they're selling to the general populace or absolute lack of precautions taken on who or what can be chromed up.
It's a boogeyman to keep people afraid of the ephemeral instead of being able to place blame and control.

[feral cape]

Like one argument is arguing since rich people don't suffer from cyberpsychosis that's proof it's not real which is more than likely just rich people not chroming themselves as much and also just having better meds

[north ferry]

As far as I know in Warframe there are occasions where details are obscured for the vibe, but those do tend to get peeled back as part of the story. With the Operator being an example.

[olive comet]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/xklzsx/comment/irb6mqi/ "therealmaxmike" is mike

[feral cape]

Since we can clearly see David's snaps between consciousness are between his insanely high dose of meds

Mike doesn't say it's not real though

[lean garden]

it is and isnt, I think its an acceptible loss the corpos are willing to take. People are more willing to focus on the chrome being the cause of the crazy and not the conditions that put them there in the first place

[feral cape]

He says it's operates like any disorder different people are susceptible to it at different levels and that's represented by the humanity stat in the ttrpg

He said mister silverhand is lying but not that the condition isn't real

[olive comet]

its just that, cybernetics are no cause for the illness of "cyberpsychosis"

he says yes to the entire post, so we can assume the entire post is true

[feral cape]

No he doesn't

[lean garden]

except the post doesnt say that cyberpsychosis isnt real tho

the post just disconnects the relations between chrome and loonybin

[feral cape]

He says yes to some guy asking questions about Johnny

[olive comet]

no

[olive comet]

yeah

[lean garden]

No

[olive comet]

its completely disconnected from the mainstream idea of cyberpsychosis; I.E. "cyberpsychosis isnt real" is the simplest way to shock that understanding out

either way, my point is that most of the world and characters around them decieve the consumer into believing something

and I was wondering if warframe has done, or may be doing this

[feral cape]

Ballas

[lean garden]

^ if theres anyone thats lying to you its ballas

[feral cape]

Given what we understand of the generation 1 warframes them going ballistic by ballases account may be a lie of ommission

The warframes did go ballistic just maybe not because of general infestation

[olive comet]

Framepsychosis isnt real!?

[feral cape]

Instead it was probably orokin torture as laid out in the rhino prime codex

Well no the frames going ballistic is very real

Kullevero reports on it

[olive comet]

was it made up by the corpos in orosaka to sell more warframes

[olive comet]

why was he lying

[feral cape]

Because the orokin could do no wrong ever

[lean garden]

"they turned on us they did!"
"why?"
"dunnow"
"so it wasnt the torture and the trauma of being and becoming a warframe"
"I dunnow, but they turned on us they did!"

[feral cape]

Synthell may be lying out of lack of knowledge saying that wally is albretchs fear

But until we confirm what wally is we can't really say yay or nay

But the only character i can think of who straight up lies to you is ballas

[main crane]

I think the Warframes that went ballistic were the likes of Umbra as the Ballas stated in the Vitruvian that Warframes were made from people regardless if they are willing candidates or not.

[feral cape]

Well umbra is the first guy we meet who isn't ballistic and instead just mad at ballas

Like umbra wasn't just fighting everything because he felt it he fought everything that got in his way of killing ballas because he hates ballas

[main crane]

How about Chroma? Wasn't he ballistic?

[feral cape]

Yea

Umbra wasn't ballistic

[main crane]

Fair enough

[stiff fable]

EVERY Warframe goes ballistic, the trick is that some Warframes have an emotion that anchors them so they don't lose everything

[sterile oriole]

Is there a lore reason volt is the coolest and best frame

[lean garden]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-brain-meme-big-brain-big-brain-meme-big-brain-time-gif-2441110471562975014

^ the reason

[gentle sentinel]

I finished 1999 now i have question, || the indifference and that wall that appears first in the second dream, did they got explained at one point and i just missed it or are these unknown entities currently just being "here" || thx in advance 🙂

[raw stone]

The second dream? That quest?

[gentle sentinel]

this wall thing

[raw stone]

I don't recall them being there. Actually... I don't think they appear till Chains of Harrow, a post-War Within quest due to the zenith of the quest.

[strange plinth]

yeah, mitw is introduced in chains of harrow afaik

[raw stone]

The wall we see doesn't appear till New War.

[gentle sentinel]

from what i understand this wall and "indifference" are the same person?

[raw stone]

The concept of them is introduced. They take our form.

Yeah pretty much. Same thing.

[gentle sentinel]

yeah as the Operator

[strange plinth]

they seem to be the same entity, yes
they can take the form of the operator

[raw stone]

I was more confused on where you said they appear.

[gentle sentinel]

oh, sorry english isnt my strongest language, i was more confused where he suddenly comes from and just "helps" the Operator saving Lotus

[raw stone]

Anyway, yeah. They get introduced in Chains of Harrow, and I don't think they get revealed till New War.

Actually... I did wanna talk about the Lotus in New War. She tried using her powers to save them from the sun right? Just like she hid lua?

Them being her and operator. I think she had the power to open a portal to the void, mostly because of the sudden confrontation by the wall.

For context, Prior to Chains of Harrow, The Man in the Wall was being diffused and chained to Harrow.

He did not appear during the old war, assumedly. We... don't actually know. So when the Lotus hid the moon... they didn't interfere.

[strange plinth]

afaik, praghasa was opening the void portal throughout the entire fight w/ ballas
presumably with ballas losing control, the portal was prematurely opened, allowing the man in the wall to fly out at us, but not -everything else ballas was trying to do-
likely causing the murmur to increase their activity, activating kalymos sequence n all that
lotus was probably trying to shield us from the sun, or knew the void was about to surge and tried to protect from that
either way, she says she saw "nothing" in the conversation afterward, although no indication of how we got away from the sun
though i severly doubt wally 'helped' us there

[raw stone]

It's been a very long while since I played New War. Then the bug... then the bug fix. I'll probably replay it and figure out the entire thing all over again. Fresh eyes.

[strange plinth]

tnw is such an info loaded quest lol

[raw stone]

I am... definitely only gonna replay it once.

[graceful swan]

Was actually in War Within too just in the clouds the name only became a thing in Chains

[strange plinth]

right yeah
first introducted in tww, chains was the big one about him

[raw stone]

Wait which clouds

[proper barn]

The wall is the indifference/man in the wall. It's what rell was keeping held down for 1000 years.

@gentle sentinel also you can listen to the Albretch logs from when diemos first came in the room where you start the whispers quest.

If you haven't listened to them yet.

They where in the game since 2020 and diemos but you did need enough standing to view them where as after you do the Kalymos protocol you can just listen to them.

[gentle sentinel]

are they on the pc beside Loid?

[proper barn]

Not that loid

In diemos in the room where

You talk to robot loid

@gentle sentinel this room it's these things. Go from left to right and listen to all of them.

[gentle sentinel]

Ohhh

[misty kettle]

best part of lore is Loid saying "Kalymos" and then doing the wildest gasp as something secret opens behind him

[feral cape]

No lotus doesn't have any powers like that when she hid lua she just manipulated a bunch of orokin tech

[misty kettle]

does this matter?

in lore

is it a lore choice or a more personal choice?

different ending and such

[feral cape]

It doesn't matter

[lean garden]

personal choice

it will always end the same

[misty kettle]

aight got it ty

ill pick waifu material

[misty kettle]

In the 1999 group, what is possessing Nyx? idk if the name is correct, the girl on the left of this pic

Eleanor

what is the "indifference"

[lean garden]

The Man in the Wall

[lean garden]

But also nyx (eleanor) is not possessed by the Indifference

[misty kettle]

huh?.. im confused tho, her eyes turn green and something else speaks

thats the man in the wall?

[lean garden]

✨ Telepathy✨

[misty kettle]

so the man in the wall usually takes control of Eleanor because.. he can?..

why doesn't he do it with Arthur or Quincy for example

why Eleanor

[lean garden]

Wally does not take control of eleanor

[misty kettle]

Wally?

[lean garden]

the glowing green eyes is an eleanor exclusive

[misty kettle]

oh man in the wall

[misty kettle]

Im saying this cause Eleanor always speaks in "we" as well, meaning there is another person

[lean garden]

infested hive mind

not wally

its right there in the quest, all this happens because she furthers her connection to the infested techrot cluster

taking control

[raw stone]

Thought it was purple?

[graceful sand]

What are warframes made out of?

[lean garden]

mine was green methinks, then again its been a hot minute. Either way the glowing [insert secondary power ranger colours] eyes are eleanor exclusive

[raw stone]

Ah.

[lean garden]

"made out of" in what sense?

[raw stone]

Yeah Ik that. Energy is tied to their eye colors btw.

[graceful sand]

hmmm…. Good question 😂

As in are they metal?

Or…?

[lean garden]

metal-flesh

[graceful sand]

infested flesh?

[lean garden]

yes

[graceful sand]

how are they created though

[lean garden]

which ones

[graceful sand]

wdym by this

[lean garden]

we talking OGs, subsequent iterations or protoframes

[graceful sand]

hmm the base ones that we get like sevagoth or Excalibur

[lean garden]

so the ones we use are duplicates off blueprints made when the original iteration of the frame was made

[graceful swan]

Our ones are 3D printed humans

[graceful sand]

Ohhh so like ash there was one and then they decided to make multiple to have more assassins?

[lean garden]

*more warframes

[graceful sand]

Does the void turn people into warframes? Cause sevagoth died while in the void right.

[lean garden]

was already a warframe to begin with

[graceful sand]

oh mb

so what’s his shadow ?

[graceful swan]

The Void can most likely create Warframes though

[graceful sand]

soooo the void is sentient ?

[raw stone]

Yeah. Although we do believe perhaps his shadow manifested through his vengence

[graceful swan]

Thought can affect the Void

[graceful sand]

Vengeance to who? The sisters or did he lose someone

[raw stone]

We... don't know. Base sevagoth's story read like that to me.

[graceful sand]

Oh I see

Sevagoth is just confusing on well like everything

[raw stone]

I suppose the sisters? Sleeping in the Cold Below had that whole themation. Plus his theme and codename was "Wraith"

[graceful sand]

In the story they say sevagoths shadow isn’t alive in the the way that we know it

[raw stone]

Yeah.

Ghostie.

[graceful sand]

I love how they just left us with so many questions 😂

[raw stone]

I think we have enough details about it, but tbh I wouldn't hate a Drusus Chronicle for it.

[graceful sand]

Maybe it’s cause I live and breath sevagoth so I’m more interested in the deep details about it XD

[raw stone]

No, no I get it.

Tbh to me, I find these details about frames that gain their kits in the first place to be odd

[raw stone]

Sevagoth... I kinda get. He's simple enough. And his passive could also be a manifest of his soul persisting with his shadow.

Dante though.... Did Dante never have a kit? All his abilities rely on Noctua. Drusus even said he didn't like to fight.

[stiff beacon]

Might be a revanent situation

Where he had a different kit before hand

[stray herald]

most of ballas' warframes are made from metal and the grey strain of the infested, and are void-tuned

i say most bc there are frames like nidus and caliban who are replications of warframes by their respective factions

[lean garden]

Nidus isnt really a replication of a warframe by the infested

[stray herald]

the same thing what entrati did for the vessels and the hex, only that the hex are done through injection i think, since their transformation is gradual

[graceful swan]

They are Helminth not Gray strain

[stray herald]

im pretty sure its the grey strain

[lean garden]

gradual in the sense that they had to take serums to proceed along, but the transformation to the frame form was rather immediate

[lean garden]

hex are helminth, stated by albrecht

its the hex samples that albrecht took, mixed with the grey strain on deimos, that resulted in the Vessels

[stray herald]

helminth for proto, grey strain for vessels

[graceful swan]

Ballas: "We cultured the infestation, conceiving of a hybrid. Transformed, but only just. The Helminth was created, born to yield these new warriors, worthy of battle against you, the great and terrible Hunhow."

[stray herald]

how are people converted into warframes in ballas' series

like jade and stalker

[graceful swan]

Helminth is Warframes

Grey Strain makes things grow

[stray herald]

what is black teshin

[graceful swan]

Hologram

[stray herald]

dumb

the lotus seduced the tenno

[proper barn]

No

Mothered.

[graceful sand]

Who’s the strongest canon wise or like the top 3 strongest

[tall echo]

Zarr

[graceful swan]

The one you’re using

[proper barn]

I think they mean canon

[graceful sand]

I’ve heard that but why XD

[proper barn]

Easy

[graceful sand]

what?

[tall echo]

Then they would've said canon

[graceful sand]

It was a miss type I’m sorry

[proper barn]

Oh it's a easy answer cuz we don't do power scaling really in warframe.

[graceful swan]

Because it’s not about the strongest frame it’s about the chosen Operator

[tall echo]

There is no clear answer given except that chroma is one of the strongest

[graceful sand]

Ohhh I see

[tall echo]

Which is ironic

[proper barn]

God Chroma needs a rework

[graceful sand]

Didn’t we kill him 💀 or was it just a scan ?

[tall echo]

Scan

[graceful sand]

Oh I see

[tall echo]

He was straight up invincible in the quest

[graceful sand]

Except his wings I literally based my whole build around it

[graceful swan]

Isn’t Chroma a frame people always want a rework for?

[graceful sand]

Isn’t sevagoth unkillable?

[tall echo]

But then you build him and it's just one big disappointment

[tall echo]

Theoretically

[graceful sand]

I love my boy chroma but…

[graceful sand]

My king 🙏

[tall echo]

Chroma has the second best looking prime

[restive river]

He needs help 😭

[graceful swan]

Cut of their heads yet they rise again

[restive river]

My friend loves how Chroma looks but damn
Chroma sucks

[tall echo]

My opinion on the best looking prime might be biased tbf

[graceful swan]

Looks can be deceiving

[graceful sand]

Did chroma do something to other frames like ember and frost for his elemental abilities or was it just put in his crafting recipe to make sense

[feral cape]

Chroma is the only frame were ever given a relative power rating which is "one of the strongest"

[feral cape]

Just a crafting component

[graceful sand]

Ty

[graceful swan]

Space mom is a powerscaler confirmed

[graceful garnet]

CAn u buy maw fang?

[past halo]

I still wonder what Simaris intends to do with that Chroma

[scarlet locust]

I've forgotten so many of the quests should I just watch a video on them

[sweet wadi]

Technically you can buy incarnon packs from the incarnon market, which gives you maw fangs, which you can use on whatever. But it’s a massive waste of plat

[lapis fiber]

Wait I don’t really get the lore

I’m on mars rn

[scarlet locust]

Not the worst waste of plat sometimes I don't want to play the same game mode loop for 4-6 hours straight for 2 incarnons

[tall echo]

Lore hasn't really started yet for you dw

[lapis fiber]

Ok

[sweet wadi]

Important lore question;

What Transformer do you think is Amir’s favorite?

[normal mountain]

Which continuity are we talking?
G1?
Beast Era?
Unicron Trilogy?
Aligned?

[sweet wadi]

G1, as this is 1999

[normal mountain]

That's just tip of the iceberg btw

[sweet wadi]

Most likely what he grew up with

[normal mountain]

Beast Wars was 1990s

[sweet wadi]

Hmmmm

[normal mountain]

But for G1...

[north ferry]

You realise it's going to be a patently distinct but familiar enough toy line with some weird name like Converters.

[normal mountain]

Oh, we know

Unless Hasbro gives permission

[north ferry]

Although thay makes me think of the humor about the Prime name XD

[normal mountain]

Might happen

[sweet wadi]

Robots in Masquerade

My money is on soundwave. Hacker, turns into a tape deck, comes with the objectively coolest abilities with his cassettes.

[north ferry]

Atomibots

[sweet wadi]

Atomibots and Sinesdroids

[normal mountain]

Soundwave was more of a general spy than specifically a hacker, but I see it
Amir would definitely love Soundwave

...actually, I don't know any G1 hackers lol

[sweet wadi]

That’s why I defaulted to him, yeah. Laserbeak plugging in to a computer was the closest we had mostly

[manic rover]

ok Cedo Prime is good. Gave the acolyte 7 different types of cancer

[proper barn]

This is lore

But cool.

[manic rover]

Is Galv Accel good on Cedo Prime or does it still have that issue with the glaive

[proper barn]

Idk also still lore.

[gray silo]

Okay but... what do you think Arthur's favorite My Little Pony is?

[drifting mirage]

This is pure Jazz erasure

[proper barn]

Easy

Twilight we did it.

[gray silo]

He... would take the easy route but feel a "special connection".

What about Amir?

[proper barn]

Which one is like the adhd one

[gray silo]

I would have to look it up honestly

Mm... new tennogen, The Hex MLP Fursona outfits

[proper barn]

Isn't there a like mail one that doesn't stop moving? If not that one like pinkie pie I think? Is the really adhd one. I am just free handing this from what my friend told me about this.

All the bronies aren't bros anymore and are way more based it's great.

[gray silo]

I wonder how many people would buy if the released troll skins as jokes but at super high price points

[proper barn]

You think mlp skins would be a troll?

[gray silo]

Or furre skins etc

[north ferry]

You think furry skins would be a troll? They'd rake in the cash

[gray silo]

New skin for the fist weapons.. giant neko paws

[manic rover]

Atlas bear skin

[proper barn]

My answer is still that's a troll to you?

I feel like you don't understand a main fan base of warframe.

Like warframe has a very diverse playerbase.

Like whispers is about 2 men that love each other.

[gray silo]

Youve.. got a point. Alright, it's a great idea

[silk atlas]

Rainbow Dash

[sweet wadi]

…. I want to argue but… yeah

I have met people just like Amir wearing RD hoodies

[strange turtle]

RD?

[lean garden]

rainbow dash

[silk atlas]

See the odd one is Rarity because by process of elimination she'd go to Eleanor but that's definitely not right. Quincy definitely gets AJ, Lettie gets Fluttershy, Aoi Pinkie Pie...

[sweet wadi]

Lettie feels more like a Rarity girl to me

[silk atlas]

idk how since she's like the exact opposite of a fancy frills kind of gal

[sweet wadi]

She’s also the most giving of the Hex and the most concerned with putting others before herself.

[silk atlas]

touche

[sweet wadi]

Eleanor’s greatest virtue is her empathy. Psychic powers aside, she has an easy time understanding how others think and how they would feel. She accepts different viewpoints quickly. Kindness fits her best, in that regard.

Granted, her situation and history make her dwell on the more macabre side of people, but she still wants to understand, even if it’s an ugly part of ourselves. Especially if it’s an ugly part of ourselves.

[sweet wadi]

I agree for Quincey though. He’s most concerned with things being ‘fair’. No favors left unpaid, no slight or kindness left unreturned. He values being genuine over being polite, earning his way over having it given to him.

[devout verge]

Also, there's the fluttershy vampire episode, and we know that Eleanor would be into vampire cosplay.

The really fun part is that all of that makes Arthur Twilight Sparkle, and now you'll have to imagine him writing regular letters about what he learned about friendship to… who? The Drifter? Albrecht?

[tall echo]

Eleanor

[devout verge]

Eleanor is already Fluttershy, not Celestia.

[chilly kayak]

What happened to Stalker and Jade's child? Where did it go? Why does Stalker still appear in missions even after completing this quest and already having a child?

[graceful swan]

1 You see Stalker with his kid

2 He never actually forgave you nor did anything imply he did

[chilly kayak]

Ok, ty

[devout verge]

The reasoning for him hunting us is still incredibly strained, though. Especially since he's clearly not taking hunting us seriously, since he could apparently just kill us in our sleep, but instead just keeps KOing our Warframes, who can simply get back up again right afterwards.

[silk atlas]

He definitely wants to kill us, but Gameplay Mechanics™️

[lilac aspen]

He hunts us obviously to get paid
Diapers aren't cheap smh

[devout verge]

I mean, he knows that knocking out the Warframe doesn't kill us, that's an explicit plot point. Just as much as him getting into the orbiter - twice, once in Second Dream, a second time during Jade Shadows.
But not only is he satisfied with attacking our Warframes in the field, he's satisfied with knocking them out once rather than finishing them off. He doesn't stop a mission, he just makes me press X to revive.

And the reasoning for it was strained from the beginning, and only got worse. We "destroyed his way of life"? We killed the people who were using and blackmailing him, and when he finally finds out what happened to the hostage used to blackmail him, it turned out they, too, were turned into a Warframe.

The only reason left for him to hate us is inertia. They won't get rid of the "marked for death by: Stalker" thing because it'd (partially) block people from getting his drops and completing his scans, sure, but they should really re-assess his motivation.

[lean garden]

He's not entirely complete in the chromedome, so like dont expect fully rational choices

We "destroyed his way of life"? We killed the people who were using and blackmailing him, and when he finally finds out what happened to the hostage used to blackmail him, it turned out they, too, were turned into a Warframe.
Before Jade Shadows, Stalker easily viewed us as ones who Crtl Shift Esc end programmed the people who could have returned his family to him. We didnt destroy his way of life, we destroyed the only way he knew to get his life back. After that he finds out his wife is a warframe like him, and he gets his child back, but a thousand years of hatred and focus are not easily removed

-# but yea lmao DE aint removing stalker anyhow

[devout verge]

The thing is, "Who destroyed your way of life?" is a straight Second Dream quote. Probably because he wasn't supposed to be sympathetic at that point.

I guess what really annoys me is that Jade Shadows would have been an easy way to gateway his challenges from "He wants to kill us" to "He wants to challenge us as a form of training".

Heck, Jade Shadows is post new war. He could have been a more hands-on Teshin replacement. But nooo~

[lilac aspen]

Umbra:
Stalker:

DE giving them major plot moments and then probably never bringing them up again/keeping them as if they never changed:

[lean garden]

The thing is, "Who destroyed your way of life?" is a straight Second Dream quote
I mean yes, but it doesnt detract from the fact that Jade Shadow's revealed that his motivation to be the Orokin lap dog is for his family's return to him

which we uh, kinda boinked when we killed the orokin

irony is that we're still the ones who returned his family to him

hard to erase a millenia of hate from a mad man tho

[lean garden]

I guess what really annoys me is that Jade Shadows would have been an easy way to gateway his challenges from "He wants to kill us" to "He wants to challenge us as a form of training".
But yes agreed I would have enjoyed this as an explanation of why he's still hunting us

-# hire me DE

[lilac aspen]

Clearly he's doing it to teach his child how to counter our no diff nuke everything builds.

Honestly what even will his child become.

Imagine the child of the Orokins' Execution Light and the Tenno Hunter will be like in terms of abilities.

[devout verge]

Yeah, they changed a half-baked "he was, for some reason, really loyal to the Orokin" reasoning into an equally half-baked "well, for some reason, he trusted the Orokin to actually keep their end of the bargain, enough to try to avenge them" reason. Especially since not only Jade Shadows, but literally everything else about the Orokin, shows that they were not the people who'd feel bound to keep their end of such a deal.

(And I'm not even touching the original "he avenges Bosses" reasoning.)

[lean garden]

I dont really agree on it being half-baked, its simple rather stereotypical power dynamics

theyre the only ones who knows where his family went, and the only ones offering to bring them back, and he's not right in the head so he's getting hella exploited

and then we kill them and his only known hope of getting his family dies with them, cue anger for a long time

like it doesnt matter if the orokin are notoriously untrustable, theyre the only ones who can give stalker what he wants the most

[lilac aspen]

The reason he believed they'd fix the problem if he kept working for them is what Bau said.

He was genuinely loyal to the Orokin, he even told Jade that it was illegal for them be having a child to begin with.

So it's a no brainer he actually believed that they could of totally returned him back to his family and stuff.

A shame that Ballas, being incredibly salty that some lowly guard was having a family when he lost his lover, turned them both into Warframes.

[lean garden]

real dingus move ballsack

What is lacking is continued motivation post jade shadows, since he's got a child to take care off and a grave for his wife

[devout verge]

The thing is, I'm really not a fan of "Oh, they're not right in the head" explanation. That works for sudden bursts, but for continued behavior, even centuries later? It sounds more like something to avoid coming up with an actual reasoning.

Also:

He was genuinely loyal to the Orokin, he even told Jade that it was illegal for them be having a child to begin with.
The way he says it doesn't imply loyalty, it implies fear of punishment. Which, in turn, implies that he knew that they were capricious, vengeful despots, making it even more unlikely to me that he actually trusted them, without any proof.

[lean garden]

but for continued behavior, even centuries later?
Well, given the past and continued history of people who bought into lies from absolute charlatans, this is not unorthodox, especially when he really is not right in the head thanks to his modified biology
making it even more unlikely to me that he actually trusted them, without any proof.
Again its not about him having trust in them, its about him believing that theyre the only way possible for his family to come back, and they were, because they held all the cards

[devout verge]

Even real-life charlatans generally need more plausible stories than "you do what we want, and maybe you'll see your family again, even though you know that we have a history of murdering families for giggles and you haven't seen yours in a while"
I mean, as it turns out, they threw the cards into the shredded and never told him.
Which is exactly what anyone who knew the Orokin should have expected.

[lean garden]

Even real-life charlatans generally need more plausible stories
These days? Standards been dropping

[devout verge]

Even today's charlatans at least offer scapegoats.

[lean garden]

the story is:
"We took your family away because you broke our laws, and so if you want to see them again, do what we say. Also have some gogo juice that we pinky promise doesnt compromise your brain"

[lean garden]

Well, there was a whole war being fought in that moment

but Stalker blamed himself for the whole shenanigan

dude was his own scapegoat

[devout verge]

Yeah, there was a war, but that war wasn't invoked with the stalker. Stalker wasn't told "the war makes this necessary".

Basically, (like so many things in Warframe), you can add a bunch of fan-theories to make it make sense.

But from what the game itself gives us? The reason Stalker hates us is because he trusted the cruel despots torturing people for funsies more than the people who rebelled against said despots.

(That he considered his personal happiness enough of a reason to support said despots doesn't make him any more sympathetic, but is at least the most plausible part of the whole deal.)

[lean garden]

Again, its not that he trusted them more than us, we literally didnt know, nor could have counteroffered the orokin on the "give your family back" shtick

Like theres nothing to trust us more with

From his perspective we destroyed the only way he could get his family back

Doesnt matter if the orokin are notorious for goobering families, theyre the only ones offering the family package, and in the slimmest chance to get his family back, mixed with the guilt of what he did that lead to his family being taken away, he serves the orokin like a dog

And we killed them leaving him with nothing but multi-level hatred

[devout verge]

He trusted the Orokin to, y'know, not act like Orokin.

He trusted them that his family still existed, based on the Orokin telling him "trust us, bro".

Does he get to see them? No. Does he get to write letters? No.

Did he spend any time after the fall of the Orokin to check up on what happened? Apparently, no.

Like, if his family had still been alive, shouldn't he have tried to find them?

[lean garden]

You say it like its unplausible, but its extremely stereotypical of a desperate man

[lean garden]

A desperate man who has a funky lil change in his biology that has been a lottery on the sanity retention

This aint a rational goober

[devout verge]

Again, "well, he crazy" is itself a half-baked reasoning to me.

[lean garden]

Its not just a "he crazy"

Its a multi level desperation angry, sanity coin toss, hullabaloo. That isnt helped by the fact that theres no one but his crazy ahh to steer him the right direction

Characters and people like stalker have existed and will continue to exist

Because humans are stupid in isolation and are already stupid by default

Rational choice theory doesnt hold much water in the context of stalkers story

[sweet wadi]

I gathered that, even if he hated the Orokin, he believed that they were the preferable alternative to letting the corpus and Grineer take over.

The Sol system as it is now is no less cruel than the time of the Orokin. New tyrants rose up, new monsters were made, and the tenno’s rebellion ended up doing little for anyone but themselves.

They broke all the fancy toys, plunged the system into a mini-dark age by comparison to Orokin tech, and didn’t even try to fill the power vacuum they created before seemingly vanishing.

[devout verge]

Honestly, that'd have been a way better reasoning for his grudge, but I don't really see anything supporting it.

[lean garden]

How could it? He already blamed himself for something thats not his fault, he loses the biological lottery on keeping his brain right side up (as mentioned by different characters commenting on stalker and his acos), and he gets manipulated by one of the most manipulative muckers in the whole system. Expecting him to make a rational choice is like throwing a dart with your non dominant hand blindfolded

And then we come along and give him a nice scapegoat to switch to. He doesnt need to blame himself, he can blame us now for ruining the system hes in that should have accorded him his family. The goober is a primed barrel for big mistakes

[sweet wadi]

In general he takes issue with the Tenno killing major figures. He appears and condemns them for assassination missions.

That the tenno continue to play with the system by arbitrarily cutting off heads seems to infuriate him, more than the identity of who they kill.

[devout verge]

Again, if DE had actually leaned on that rather than his personal revenge story, that'd have been way better. But they decided to turn him into a tragic anti-hero instead.

[lean garden]

And in the meantime, right as he's watching us kill his only means of getting his family back, he tries to fight and himself gets clobbered only to be saved by his unbeknownst wife.

So now he runs the major irony of taking revenge on the folks who had very little to do about his problem except for being the indirect cause of him getting his wishes (twice)

[sweet wadi]

There is that too. He’s clearly not working with a full understanding of what the tenno are. He was shocked enough to hesitate when he realized they were kids

[devout verge]

The thing is, you're writing an entire character arc here that doesn't exist in the story.

Yeah,it doesn't contradict the story, but it's also not part of the story.

All the actual Warframe content gives us is:
He kept believing in the Orokin, he apparently did absolutely nothing between their fall and the Tenno return even though that'd have been the ideal time to look for them (and if he didn't find them, that should have been a prime indicator that the Orokin were never holding up their end of the deal), and he sometimes tries to kill us, but only uses his "infiltrate our most secure bases with ease"-powers when plot-convenient.

[sweet wadi]

That was… that was a glaring issue yeah

[lean garden]

I mean, the message you just replied to all comes right from the game itself

[sweet wadi]

It doesn’t help that Hunhow also did a 180 too.

[lean garden]

We are told through jades memories what ballas used to keep sorren in line, and we see what happened with jade and stalker during the collapse

Him blaming himself? Jades memories

He wouldnt have found his damn family if he tried because they were with him the whole damn time already

[devout verge]

That specific one, yes, but it's the end of an entire chain of messages that give a whole lot of "and this was his internal motivation at this and at that point" which we absolutely do not get.

[sweet wadi]

… now that I think about it, he really had no reason not to support Narmer.

[devout verge]

That one is a full 360.
He wants the Lotus rather dead than a traitor, and he wants her rather a traitor than a puppet.
Now that she's not going to be a puppet any more, chances he's back to wanting her dead.
Probably. Maybe.

[lean garden]

I mean, most of it is inference based on what jade remembered and what hunhow says about stalker. Stalker hates us for destroying his way of life, stalkers way of life was put into place because of the stupid shenanigans ballas held over his head. These two are gathered directly from the quests and in the supplementary lore.

If you want to say that the subsequent conclusion of his internal motivation is speculation sure, but please dont say its not from the game

Ew bot

[sweet wadi]

“My daughter will have free will even if I kill her.”

“You mean if it kills her?”

“No.”

[lilac aspen]

Clearly he's just in his depressed arc now that Stalker left.

[sweet wadi]

He really did seem like Stalker’s supportive roommate in that quest, yeah.

More than his master

[lilac aspen]

Hunhow was, if we go by Natah, a farmer.

He nutured life if you think about it. It's why he talked about the scythe and what represented.

So in a way, he served his purpose once more by helping in getting Stalker to ask the Tenno for help, thus allowing Jade's child to be born.

[lean garden]

Hell, this is from the game.

Jade memory feather 4 (iirc) states that he irrationally blames himself, and repents by serving the orokin

His condition as a warframe doesnt do him favours on the sanity list (precedence set by kullervo being in a similar boat), and on multiple occasions separate characters point out he's loony.

Him being manipulated by the muckity muck is also from the 4th memory feather

This is all in the game

[feral cape]

If he infiltrates our super secret base then if he gets caught he has to deal with khal and gang umbra star child and ordis

The super secret base infiltration is a one time gambit

[sweet wadi]

Poetic and all, but this is also the guy who tried to brainwash Suda into helping him kill everything she loves.

[devout verge]

A one-time-gambit he used twice, and one of those times was after we got Umbra.

[feral cape]

The first time was significantly different than the second

[lilac aspen]

He did say "The Great and Terrible Hunhow"

Yeah it doesn't change he did some evil stuff

[sweet wadi]

The Hunhow in Octavia’s Anthem just… doesn’t match the current one.

[lilac aspen]

But the fact he did set aside things because he realized

War and stuff ended up in him forever being alone if you think about it.

He didn't want Stalker to end up like him.

[lean garden]

So like, how far up do I have to scroll for something I said to be not in the game or not be inferred from what the game has given to us

[lilac aspen]

Character development

[sweet wadi]

I’d believe that if he had been more than a bystander and an item-giver in New War. We only really get a few lines of him arguing with his son.

[lean garden]

Theres a whole lot of stuff between tho

[lilac aspen]

That Hunhow was still angry with the Tenno

Both Tenno and Sentients were weapons made by Orokin. Used.

In the end Hunhow's ways inevitably resulted in him being stuck in the ocean. His daughter betraying him. His son a corpse being puppeteered by an Archon.

Really he was still spiteful to the Drifter until they hit him with the facts and that's when he begun to truly mellow out to the point that Jade Shadows had him entirely mellowed.

He accepts the fact he's a terrible person, and knows very well there ain't no way to truly change that.

So he remains, The Great and Terrible Hunhow.

[lilac aspen]

Tbf
He couldn't exactly leave the Ocean to help

The Natah Quest had us essentially blow things up to keep him stuck in the ocean.

[sweet wadi]

Fair enough

[lilac aspen]

Him taking over Suda was his only way to "move", you could say

And then we dunked on him with the power of friendship and a theme song

[woven coyote]

and simaris simping for suda

[lilac aspen]

Tsundere Simaris was something I wasn't expecting to cross off my Warframe Bingo.

[sweet wadi]

…. I just realized that the major antagonists for everything up to new war were both different flavors of abusive father.

[woven coyote]

Warframe is all about trauma and recovering from it tbh

[sweet wadi]

And inflicting it

But yeah everything boils down to ‘grandpa doesn’t like mom’s choices’ or ‘step-dad is gaslighting/abusing mom’

[lilac aspen]

Tenno and their parent problems manifesting

First it was Space Grandpa
Then it was Space Mom
Then we have Space War Veteran adopting us after we kill Space Mom's abusive Space Ex.
Then we watch Space Uncle Teshin kick the bucket.
Then Space Mom gets abused by Space Ex again.
Then we kill Space Ex, again (he survived the first attempt).

[sweet wadi]

And space uncle 2, who may be partially alive again and now a furry.

[woven coyote]

Not to mention the whole feral parents and subsequent patricide in the zariman

[sweet wadi]

Then 1999’s main antagonist is another bad father

[woven coyote]

Or being stranded in a magic archipelago with imaginary friends

Warframe is trauma all the way down

[lean garden]

The frame of mind is at war

[sweet wadi]

It’s bad dad’s all the way down

[manic horizon]

This has been eating at me for a quite a while, if the peimes are the first to be made how did lavos make himself one (or am I wrong about primes being the first)

[lilac aspen]

Then we meet Space Friend, who made a deal with us that gave us Space powers/abandoned us and forced us to hide in a Space Story.

And then we meet Space Great Grandfather
Who was in a relationship with his Space Butler.

[graceful swan]

All you need to do is change the frame to affect your present

[lilac aspen]

Some Primes were the first made
Others are more of a status

Like you worked your way to the top as a warframe

[sweet wadi]

… I think the DE writers have dad issues.

[lilac aspen]

Wait...

I got the name of the series guys!
Titlecard here

[sweet wadi]

No wonder Umbra never gets any screen time now. He’s an actually loving father figure.

The galaxy hates competent fathers

[lilac aspen]

They don't know how to write a loving father figure

Thus they can't have Umbra and Stalker show up again

You know what really bothered me
You know how cool it would of been if Umbra showed up and helped Stalker

[graceful swan]

Let the man have a warriors rest

[lilac aspen]

If they wanted him to have a rest
Then they wouldn't have made that Augment able to be removed

[sweet wadi]

No, he must stand still for an hour while I paint him to look like pepsi man.

[lilac aspen]

Pepsi Umbra

[sweet wadi]

Or dress him up to look like my best friend/ possible boyfriend from the past.

Which is its own can of worms.

[graceful swan]

Boyfriend from the past? Are you time travelling?

[sweet wadi]

Are you not?

[lilac aspen]

If I knew Umbra was gonna be inactive after Sacrifice

I wouldn't have suffered as much during New War

[graceful swan]

He's not inactive it’s even implied he walks around the Orbiter

[sweet wadi]

He makes us breakfast cubes maybe

[lilac aspen]

Man he sure does love to remain motionless as Ballas is THROWING ME INTO THE VOID

[sweet wadi]

He was busy

[lilac aspen]

Man must of been thinking if he left the oven on or not

[sweet wadi]

Orbiter was out of milk.

[lilac aspen]

Stalker sneaks into Orbiter and Umbra just

Sleeping

[sweet wadi]

We go through a lot of milk idk what to tell you

[lilac aspen]

It would of been cool if we like
Duked it out with Umbra as Stalker for a little before then the Drifter/Operator pop in.

[sweet wadi]

Softlock the game if you overtuned his build too much, because he just 1-shots you every time

Do you want to fight a steel-path viable umbra?

[lilac aspen]

Yes I would want to fight biblically accurate Umbra

[sweet wadi]

With the dread?

[lilac aspen]

Obviously
Use Hate

Battle like true warriors

[sweet wadi]

e mashing intensifies

[lilac aspen]

It'll be like Jetstream Sam vs Raiden clearly

[graceful swan]

Just Operator actually Drifter was in 1999 at this point

[sweet wadi]

Now I just imagine Umbra chilling in the mall with the Hex

[drifting mirage]

I've read fics where Umbra was sent with Drifter as a sort of babysitter so you do get that sometimes. Could be funny.

[sturdy flume]

so when going to dante's leverian, and looking at his moveset, im guessing he found a copy of the grimoire and it corrupted him, is there any confirmation for that? because he has me curious

[tall echo]

No info on it

[proper barn]

No there is

The book does have void tongue in it right?

Also you get another log after you level him.

[tall echo]

Hmm

[kindred halo]

So the Techrot was an early strain of the infestation?

And the Orokin later weaponized the Infested?

[restive river]

Yup
The Infestation also predates the Orokin

The Orokin eventually took power and utilized the Infestation a lot

[lilac aspen]

They thought it would be an effective weapon against the Sentients.

Then the Sentients went "Lol. Lmao."

[feral cape]

No they didn't it was an effective weapon

[proper barn]

Weaponized sections of it yes.

[scarlet canyon]

wtf the stalker has a kid

this man sexed a warframe

thats crazy

[swift steppe]

no they sexed BEFORE becoming warframe

jade was pregnant and then they became warframe

i forgor the rest of the lore but warframes cannot be sexed w

[scarlet canyon]

damn how long was her term bro

thats crazy

[stiff fable]

Thousand years at least

[swift steppe]

idk maybe too long

[tawny stump]

Pretty sure the orokin or maybe ballas specifically was like "lmao you cant have your kid now, unless you like waited 1000 years or smthn idk" and jade said bet, she was determined to have that child. Pretty sure she made her operator cry once

[strange plinth]

yeah the memory feathers in the teshin relay room say something like that iirc

[north ferry]

Yup, pretty much

[restive river]

"There is plentiful strength within you – but only to keep you preserved as you are now. Your child, alas, will never grow. Even if you fed it with all the strength in your body! Perhaps if you lay lifeless for a year, the child would twitch a little. A century and its heart might begin to beat. A thousand years, and who knows? Perhaps you might feel a kick."

And thus she lay for a thousand years and boom, baby

[proper barn]

That's literally her punishment

Go to the Teshin room in Any relay and you can read some jade logs.

[lilac aspen]

She gained control of herself by literally talking to her operator and then lulling them to sleep because the operator was essentially beginning to have an emotional breakdown.

[halcyon acorn]

went to Loid to get rid of some arcanes and he told me The Lotus made the sanctum her base of operations, meaning she's not just sitting around being mysterious. Do we have anymore details as to why she's currently residing there?

[graceful swan]

The Visitor

Tenno,

None of us could hear the Device that was calling from the abyss of history. The Daughter of Hunhow heard it, and almost succumbed to its call. She raised her voice in song to drown it out, and that we did hear.

I should have known she was waiting for you.

You answered a call and in a way, found an answer. For me. The time is almost right to finish the Kalymos Sequence.

I will soon be able to send you to the city-state of Höllvania, in the plague year of 1999 - a most perilous time. Without your equipment, you would surely perish.

Luckily, the Vessels have a connection to Albrecht's "volunteers" that I believe I can exploit. You will not arrive unarmed, nor unarmored.

We won't be late!

Loid

Lotus Eaters sort of is that reason

[halcyon acorn]

I'm still curious why she continued to stay there. I haven't found any other leads after replaying the quest, but I'm just going to assume she's seeking refuge or because it's simply one of the places where the void's presence is prominent (the heart, murmurs, etc.)

[graceful swan]

Tbh she’s probably still there because there hasn’t been any other content in the system actually involving her for her to move locations

DE also rarely move characters from intended spots even after quests

[stiff fable]

You can visit her on the cliff and she says a few things

Including that she might have to change or be changed again

[raw stone]

Minimum 1000.

My guess is... 10K

[graceful swan]

10k is from 1999 till when we murdered the Orokin though

[raw stone]

Oh. Then how long do you think the Orokin empire felled to Circa Kuva Queen?

I... don't actually have a consistent marker for the Tenno awakening. But the Twin Queens probably aren't a good one to use.

What happened relatively early in the tenno storyline that we can use as a thing? Hunhow's Awakening?

[graceful swan]

This is probably the best marker we can have "You could live a thousand years and never wake to a face like hers. I slept a thousand and look what I got. What do you think? A career con like her and an old Dax like me?"

Tenno were around when Varzia got attacked by Erra

[raw stone]

Ah.

So... Tenno slept around 1000 years.

[graceful swan]

Yes

[raw stone]

Ah.

[restive river]

The time between us geocoding the orokin and waking up is ~1k years.

[drifting mirage]

so now that Heart of Deimos is done before The Second Dream, new players are getting a double-fake about our powers aren't they

[tall echo]

?

[high bay]

So like in terms of logistics, what would it take to calibrate a Prime weapon to be usable by the Drifter and not immediately break their arm and/or shoulder?

[lilac aspen]

Tbf
If we go by Duviri trailer the Drifter can use warframe weapons

Like the Tigris
A Tenno's double barrel shotgun
Or how Khal over here used a Cornith Prime like a boss.

Contrary to popular belief
Most Warframe weapons are usable by other people.

As the "Archaic weapons" the Orokin gave to them to fight the Sentients were weapons that existed way before the Warframes became a thing.

Which is why it do be annoying about how the Drifter, the person who probably did use ranged weapons before in Duviri, used the bow from Hunhow, and also has used multiple melee weapons-

REFUSES TO USE ANY WEAPONS NOW ASIDE FROM FUNNY VOID PISTOLS.

[high bay]

Probably for balance and cosmetic reasons, given that not all Operator cosmetics are ported to Drifter and that some people still like using the Operator, you’d want Operator and Drifter to play the same in the Origin System. A potential counter argument is the question as to whether or not the Drifter has a larger hitbox than the Operator

But yeah I agree that it would be the bee’s knees to be able to run around as the Drifter using Warframe weapons, pretending to be an Orokin era bounty hunter

[restive river]

Kahl’s a super soldier
Ofc he can use the corinth :p

Like the Grineer are not your average humans

Also the reason the Drifter doesn’t use any other weapons outside of Duviri is the same reason the Operator doesn’t
They have Warframes :p

[lilac aspen]

He clearly isn't super soldier
Kahl is merely so based that he scares the Cornith into submission.

[restive river]

The grineer are super soldiers
But also kahl is totally built different

[stray herald]

I never knew that the orowyrm fires deal tau dmg

[tall echo]

Probably only one of them does

[high bay]

Joy is Tau
Anger is Heat
Envy is Toxin
Sorrow is Cold
Fear is Electricity

[restive river]

doesn’t Joy deal Void damage not Tau??

[glacial bough]

It does

[high bay]

Adaptation tripped Joy as tau last I played Duviri

[limber pulsar]

until the recent caliban rework tau damage was pretty much just treated as void damage under a different name when used by enemies

[sharp goblet]

Did I miss it or was it ever explained why Albrecht created giant bodies to transfer into?

[jaunty oasis]

There’s lore dropped from fighting the whisper in the book in sanctum.

Basically he wanted giant warframes because they’d be strong.

Loid being the individual that discovered the helminth strain’s potential to scale to large sizes.

Skit TLDR

Loid: Albrecht, look at this giant mess helminth made!

Albrecht: Hmm! This gives me an idea!

several disemboweled, separated variants of Arthur and Aoi later

Albrecht: Loid, look at this giant mess I’ve made!

Loid: Hmm!

[proper barn]

Yeah that's what the vessels are.

also that's a 50% drop i think

50% chance you get a lore fragment.

[swift steppe]

why arthur and aoi specifically

[gloomy flint]

Does the hex prefer family guy over south park

[next mica]

Since family guy premiered 31st january 1999, I'd say they probably prefeer south park over family guys, since they're probably too busy to watch family guys in 1999, while they still had time to watch south park when it premiered in 1997

[jaunty oasis]

I only see images of them in the netracell vaults so I assume all the giants are clones of them.

[kindred halo]

Every warframe was made with a specific purpose, what was Sevagoth’s?

[thick viper]

Captain of Tempestarii ? Idk

[finite dock]

He was

So if there's two dimensions. "Duviri" and the "Origen system" from a deal made on the zariman. Ballas technically still alive. He matches the guy that you ask to fight kullevo

So there could be a chance that there could still be a war but he's mechanical instead of biological

So metaphorically. He can still continue his plan for domination from where his other self ended. (Ofc this is a theory I was thinking)

[tall echo]

Duviri is just a place in the void, and the warden is conceptually embodied by kullervo

[finite dock]

So your telling me that the warden is a completely different person. Even though they both look the same

I beg to differ

[tall echo]

The warden is created from kullervo's perception of ballas.

He is barely real, just like the rest of duviri

[finite dock]

So explain why in the new war. A tenno made a deal with the indifference. And made duviri. That tenno becoming the drifter. And in a scene in the new war. The drifter and operator are shown shaking hands. Hints that duviri is a real place in the void. And how you can travel there by the zariman in the quarters. So if the drifter can go in. Somthing can come out

So he can still travel to the origin system and carry on with the war plans his other self couldn't do

[tall echo]

[glacial bough]

Except the Warden isn't Ballas like that.

[woven coyote]

Oh boy

I think that one isnt even worth the effort

[tall echo]

I always rapidly run out of patience when I read that much loretuber-esque talk in one message

[finite dock]

Sorry

It's just a theory tho

[glacial bough]

It's one that doesn't hold up with current information

[tall echo]

1. The deal only split the timeline by saving every kid on the zariman by giving them void powers, while in the other timeline the drifter didn't get any. Duviri was created by the drifter through conceptual embodiment due to their intense emotions from being stuck alone on the zariman
2. The handshake is more metaphorical than anything, it just shows that they've become one
3. Duviri is a "real" place in the void, but due to the nature of its creation it doesn't exactly qualify as Real real
4. The drifter can go into and out of duviri because they created it and are an actual real person, unlike duviri citizens, courtiers, thrax and the warden

[finite dock]

I get it

And yet I'd be surprised if I see the warden trying to take over duviri. (Again. just a thought. Idk if it can happen or not)

[tall echo]

If it was possible thrax would just reset duviri before he gets there

[finite dock]

Makes sense

[lilac aspen]

Thrax is the king essentially too
The Warden, while Ballas looking, would probably just go "But why would I turn against The King."

[tall echo]

Wouldn't even consider it probably since his only purpose is to guard kullervo

[raw stone]

I did wish to follow up, Kullervo is a real frame right? Like Real real?

But the story of Kullervornen trumps me there. How long was Kullervo in Duviri for

[feral cape]

What do you mean real

[raw stone]

Real real mind you and I mean like Real like the Drifter

[spice spade]

Would anyone be able to possibly point me in the direction of a podcast for Warframe lore please? Want to refresh my knowledge on Warframe on my journeys to and from work Especially now I've gotten fully updated by the 40k Lorecast

[jaunty oasis]

Brozime did a barebones version of a story overview that tries to avoid headcanon and jumped to conclusions

[swift steppe]

ok i see

[tall echo]

Yes.

[tall echo]

Each vessel is connected to one of the hex

[jaunty oasis]

Yeah it was just my assumption because I can't really tell from looking at the vessels.

[feral cape]

Like not conceptual embodiment yes drifter is real

I denounce claiming conceptual embodiment is less real than things from physical reality but oh well

[raw stone]

Mh I know conceptual Embodiment is a different reality but I mean like

Is KULLERVO. REAL.